Love, Lies & Red Flags: Avoiding Online Romance Scams

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Welcome to Consumer Connection, a podcast brought to you by the Montgomery County Office of Consumer Protection.
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I'm your host, Michelle Escobar.
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Before we dive in today, I want to share a message from a consumer who worked with one of our investigators, Joy Matthews.
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Ms.
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Matthews is exceptional.
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We are so lucky to have her representation as a consumer advocate in Montgomery County.
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In addition to her expertise, she cares deeply about the customers she serves and tenaciously advocates for them.
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At OCP, we know that awareness and early support make all the difference.
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That's why the conversation that we're having today matters.
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Online romance and dating can open doors to wonderful connections, but they can also present challenges that test trust and safety.
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This isn't about fear.
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It's about awareness and practical ways to stay safe without losing trust.
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To guide us through this, I'm joined by Karen Morgan from AARP.
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Karen is a leading advocate for fraud prevention and consumer protection.
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She'll share insights, real stories, and practical tips to help you and your loved ones stay safe, protect your heart and finances without giving up on those connections.
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Okay.
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All right.
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So, Karen, welcome.
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And please tell us uh what you do at ARP and tell us about ARP as well.
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Okay.
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Um and I'm so happy to be here.
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Thank you for asking me to be here, Michelle.
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Um I'm on the Executive Council of AARP Maryland.
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I've been on the Executive Council.
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This is my third year, I believe, coming up.
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And um ARP Maryland is one of state off one of the state offices that are part of the AARP organization, national organization.
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And AARP exists to help people stay secure with their finances and also stay secure as they age, because our founder never believed that people should decline as they get older, especially after a lifetime of work.
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So our founder was Ethel Percy Andrus, and the story that people like to tell is that she found one of her teacher colleagues, she was a teacher, she found one of her colleagues literally living in a chicken coop because she couldn't afford to live in a house.
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That was after a lifetime of work.
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She couldn't afford that.
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And that's when Ethel Percy Andris said, This is unacceptable, and I'm going to start AARP.
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Um, it wasn't AARP back in those days, but it that's what it became.
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And one thing that AARP focuses on is financial security, and that means scam and fraud, protection and prevention.
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We that is like part of our core DNA.
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Um I was asked to be uh um to be a volunteer with ARP Maryland five years ago, after I retired from the state of Maryland.
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I was an attorney for the legislature for 36 years, and and after I retired, the executive director asked if I'd be interested in working on fraud um issues.
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While I was with the state of Maryland, I worked on economic crimes, I worked on identity theft, I wrote reports on identity theft and drafted legislation in that area.
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So I was really happy to be able to volunteer to do that.
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So, and I've been doing that for five years, and I'm I'm the lead, one of the lead volunteers for fraud prevention with AARP Maryland.
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And you know what's so important about that is that everyone can benefit from the information that you share, um that AARP shares.
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Um it's not, it's it's for everyone because everyone can benefit from it.
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Like, because today we're we're talking about um about romance scams and how people, the way people connect, um, and how we have to use caution, um, how we're connecting.
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I know um everyone is online, almost everyone is online.
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And um that is a a huge way, for example, how I connect with my family.
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I have family that are in in Costa Rica, I have family that are out of state, and we love, and vice versa, we love to share, um see updates on families, see how how you know cousins are growing, little the how family is growing, what their updates.
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And it's difficult today now, um, with with that, because we are evolving, things are are are are are changing.
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So how do we keep up with with these, you know, with this evolving change of how we're connecting, how people are connecting today?
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Yeah, that's a really good question, Michelle, because because I think the game changer for us in the 21st century is the speed with which things happen.
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It's not that people weren't doing romance scams in the 1800s or the 1700s, they were.
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But it took a lot longer for the criminal to set that up.
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Now, with the press of a button, and you don't even need to be in the same area, um, with the press of a button, you can capture all hundreds, thousands, even millions of people, and ensnare them in some kind of scam.
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And if only 1% say yes, you you could make $100,000, you could make several hundred thousand dollars.
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So that that's the difference.
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And but at ARP, we firmly believe in the power, we have power.
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You know, and I think one of the one of the issues with the ways in which fraud is discussed is the notion that we're powerless to do anything about this, and you kind of just have to sit there and hope it doesn't happen to you.
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You there are things that you can do because no matter how fast the scam happens, in a lot of ways they happen in this with this using the same methods.
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There's a contact from out of the blue.
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And with many romance scams, that's how it starts.
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It could start with something as simple as hi, like a text that says, hi, I've gotten that text.
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Hello.
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And I'm like, uh, okay, no, hello, goodbye.
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Right.
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You know, how about goodbye?
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Let's try that one.
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Um, so you know, it could be, or gee, I I was trying to reach my my sister because my husband's sick, but did I catch, did I get the right person?
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And and you're like, oh no, I want to let you know that you this is an emergency.
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And and the person's like, oh, well, darn, I feel so sad.
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I don't know what to do.
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And you know, I lost my husband too, about, you know, just five minutes ago when I made this up.
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So, you know, maybe I can help you with uh financial security by investing in cryptocurrency, because that's what that's what my husband turned me on to.
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It's really yeah, and that's what I'm that's what I'm was gonna ask.
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After you take maybe take us through what happens when you when you respond to that text?
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When it's a hello, and you're like, and and you respond back, I'm sorry, I think you have the wrong number.
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What happens?
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Well, the first thing that happens is that when when you respond, and you should never respond, but if you but if you respond, the criminal now knows that he has a real person on the line.
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Because these criminals use software, they buy software as a service on the dark web.
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And this software will robocall millions of numbers in the space of five minutes or something like that.
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And if so, and they don't know whether there's a real person or whether it's a real phone number or not, they don't care.
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They're just looking for somebody to say yes or to say, well, what did you say?
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Or you have the wrong, even if you say you have the wrong number, that's you don't want to say anything.
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Yeah.
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You know, you don't even want to admit that you have a name.
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I don't know what my name is today.
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I knew it yesterday, but not today.
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You know, try that, you know, and just really annoy the criminal if you if you are responding.
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But um so when you when you do that, that's what happens.
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And then the the criminal and these, let's not get it twisted, these are criminals.
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They are human roaches.
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That's what when I'm in a good mood, that's what I call them.
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Let's not talk about what I call them when I'm when I'm in a bad mood.
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Uh-huh.
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But these human roaches and who are criminals, like the worst kind, cowardly kinds of criminals, will then try to engage you.
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And how do they do that?
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They do that with emotional weaponization.
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That's why I remember on one of your earlier podcasts, you kept emphasizing that almost everybody can be, that everybody can be subject to a scam.
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And I was listening going, hallelujah, we need to get that message out.
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It's not about, it was never about how smart you are.
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It's about how emotional you are in that given moment.
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If you're distracted, if you're distressed, if you're thrilled because you just, you know, because you just won the Mexican lottery, even though you didn't enter, or you just, you know, or you got the love of your life who just thinks you're the bee's knees, that heightened emotion can make you subject to a scam.
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That's great.
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You know, and so the criminal will try to engage you, and the criminal, they have playbooks, they have scripts, they work on this a lot.
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And they will say things to just entice you, to bring you in to establish trust, because that's their that's job one.
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Yes.
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We need to establish trust, we need to establish a common bond.
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Um, you know, you have a child is misbehaving, I do too.
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Um, you you you lost your spouse, I lost my spouse too.
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I feel so sad.
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You've been struggling with your finances.
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Well, I was too until I invested in cryptocurrency, and now I'm financially secure.
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Yeah.
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None of that needs to be true.
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And they don't care if it's true, they don't care about lying.
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And I think that that's key, the establishing the trust.
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They're very patient.
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Whoever's on that other line, if the more you give them, the more they take, and then they give a little back, and then they take more, and then they're establishing that trust.
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Yep.
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And and and that's where people I think get caught up.
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Um, because whether you're whether it's an online uh relationship or or in person, you still have to establish that trust, and they know exactly how to do that.
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Right.
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You know, when we went through COVID, everybody had to be online.
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There, I mean, being meeting in person without a mask or whatever was just became anathema.
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It just became a risky proposition.
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Um, and now we're back to being in social situations, but I think what COVID taught us, if nothing else, is how deeply we crave personal connection.
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We crave hearing the human voice, we crave the eye contact and the hug and just hanging out.
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You know, that's what makes us human.
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Otherwise, we'd all be robots, right?
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And the criminals know this.
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So that's why their job, their job is to establish trust, because they know that once you trust, you then become vulnerable.
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You will then believe what you're being told, or you will at least entertain or consider the notion.
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Even if you end up saying no, they know that they can come back and ask again and again.
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That's what that's what they do.
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And so the the common tactics that they use.
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Um, I've heard of the the love bombing where they're just yes, right?
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And yes, the the urgency, creating the urgency.
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Um and another thing I think is the isolation.
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So they they take all these things and and and it's just a perfect storm for them.
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It's a perfect way to just um talk to me about these common tact tactics that they use.
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Well, uh, yeah.
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The with friend with friendship and romance scams, these criminals engage with engage in what I call the long con.
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And that's a that's an old term, but it's the long con.
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Yeah.
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Because it differs from like the financial scam where you get the message saying, oh, your your account's been compromised, you need to do something immediately.
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These people are willing to engage, entice, discuss for days, weeks, months, even years.
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But all scams operate in the same way.
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At some point, there will be a demand for money.
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And I call it a demand because it's it's not a request, it's a demand.
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Yeah.
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Because they will be very specific about what it is you need to do to get this money to them.
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You need to stay on the phone with me.
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If you loved me, you would give me this money.
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You said you loved me, but now you're saying no.
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And I, well, then we might as well just break up right now.
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Oh, no, no, no, no, that's not.
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It's just that I don't have the money.
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Well, if it was me, I would just get the money.
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I would just get the money.
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I would sell something, I would, I would, I would borrow from my friends, I would borrow from my family.
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Why can't you do that for me?
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It can get really mean like that immediately.
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And the other thing that's in these playbooks is this sort of map of how to start casually with like a casual conversation, and then just gradually shift into more intimate discussions, intimate, you know, sort of like um illusions or or just even sexual um things that that people will say, you know, and you mentioned love bombing, and love bombing is definitely a tactic.
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We say this at AARP, and I know you say too, if somebody starts telling you within five minutes of meeting you that you're the most fabulous person on earth, that's a red flag.
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Yes.
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Even though you might be the most fabulous person on earth, don't believe that person when they say they don't know you.
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Right.
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How do they know you're amazing?
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Exactly, exactly.
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And and sometimes, sometimes we'll say, okay, this is common sense, but what happens to the person?
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What what what what is that person um going through that that that that maybe um a family member can look, can can will they are they able to talk to family?
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What can we say to them um to as a family member if we're noticing that they're being secretive, if they're if they're you know isolating a little bit, what what can we do?
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Even a friend, even if it's just our friend, it's not it's not family, but our loved ones, we love them and we see them, something's going on.
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What do we do?
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That is the hardest thing to address, I think.
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That's the hardest thing, because what happens in this psychologically is that when the criminal establishes this trust, it's a really incredibly strong bond, especially if the so-called love is involved.
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And so now this person in the hierarchy is at the top, and family members who are just haters, or family members who are just jealous, um, or friends who just, you know, they just don't know and they're judgy.
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That's what that's the stuff that happens.
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And when when the victim is talking to the criminal, the criminal might reinforce those things.
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Yeah, your family's your family, I bet your family's kind of judge.
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I bet your family doesn't understand you the way I do.
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It's an abusive relationship.
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It's abusive, that's exactly what it is.
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It's exactly what it is, in the worst, cruelest way.
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Yes, yes, and and and that, and I and I get that even if if if it's a a I don't know, a bad boyfriend to a friend or or something, and and we know as friends, he's not good for you.
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And and and we're seeing him, we know it it happens when they're in person, and and so the same.
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It's an abusive relationship online.
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Yeah, and and it's so hard to convince the target that they've made the wrong decision.
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In the first place, I didn't, I know how to manage my life, I didn't do anything wrong.
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I know how to pick somebody who's right for me, and and you've never been on my side.
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Yeah, you know, so that's that's the dialogue that happens.
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Or, you know, I I just you just don't know him.
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Well, no, if you don't know him the way that I do, he hasn't asked me for money.
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He's never asked, in fact, he's given me money, and some that's another tactic, too, is that sometimes the scammers will send small amounts again to establish trust.
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You know, here I'll lend I'll lend you $10, I'll lend you $50.
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By the way, can you lend me $50,000?
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Um, you know, right now I lent you five just yesterday, so at least you can just lend me $50,000.
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So that's I think as family, as friends and family uh for our loved ones, remain close to them, remain vigilant for them, as you would with anybody that you that you think, hey, you know, they're not making good wise decisions right now.
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Just remain vigilant for them.
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And be a resource.
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Like yeah, you know, if you have any questions, if you want to run something by me, I am here.
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Right.
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You know, I I will be here.
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And I'm I'm not judging, I only want what's best for you.
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Yeah.
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You know, you kind of have to do that and hope that's at some point the the skepticism will kick in so that that person will come back.
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But I'm I'm telling you, with family and friends, even though they see what's happening, that that is so difficult.
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And there's not a real surefire way to break that bond.
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You know, and and really the target or the victim kind of has to break it themselves.
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They have to start asking some oil and this doesn't quite feel right.
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And they or or somehow, you know, he asked me for money, but he was really mean that day.
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Well, or she was really mean that day.
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Why, why did she do that?
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You know?
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Hmm.
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And then then maybe they'll run it by a trusted family member or friend.
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Yeah.
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That's how we just remain open to them.
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You've come across so many, um, so many victims, so many people.
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Um, is there is there a story that maybe you can share with us and where um hopefully maybe it might have a uh is are there any happy endings to this?
00:19:39.279 --> 00:19:41.920
I guess when you catch them on time, maybe, but yeah.
00:19:42.079 --> 00:19:46.960
Oh yeah, they're they're happy and they're people who you know avert avert being scammed.
00:19:46.960 --> 00:19:52.400
But I I guess I will emphasize what you've always said is that it can happen to anyone.
00:19:52.400 --> 00:19:58.079
It does not, I'm an attorney, I work in this field, I write in this field.
00:19:58.079 --> 00:20:00.480
I'm I worry that it could happen to me.
00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:01.920
I totally worry about that.
00:20:01.920 --> 00:20:11.599
And there have been times when I just happen to be distracted or distressed or whatever, and I pick up the phone because I'm expecting another phone call, and it's a scammer.
00:20:11.599 --> 00:20:13.359
You know, and I'm like, I shouldn't have done that.
00:20:13.359 --> 00:20:25.039
Or I click, I've even clicked on a text from like my bank because you know, there were people waiting for me, you know, standing behind me in line, and I was in a hurry, and I wasn't thinking it was after that that I was thinking.
00:20:25.039 --> 00:20:30.160
Um one la let me tell you a story about one person that I came across.
00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:31.680
This was last year.
00:20:31.680 --> 00:20:35.599
ARP Maryland does a campaign called Protect Week.
00:20:35.599 --> 00:20:45.519
We do this every year, and we do it in partnership with about 20 other state and federal organizations, and we shine a spotlight on outer financial abuse.
00:20:45.519 --> 00:20:59.599
One of the things that we do is we try to bring stories of victims during a press conference or during like presentations that we do, we try to bring those stories to light.
00:20:59.599 --> 00:21:15.119
And we um ARP Maryland came across one gentleman who um actually testified in favor of a bill of there was a cryptocurrency regulation bill that passed in the Maryland General Assembly last year.
00:21:15.119 --> 00:21:24.400
He testified in favor of it, and our communications director reached out to him only to find that he had been victimized by a scam.
00:21:24.400 --> 00:21:31.440
This man is the practicing attorney, and he was victimized by a jury scam.
00:21:31.839 --> 00:21:32.000
Oh.
00:21:32.400 --> 00:21:38.079
Now you would think, you're a practicing attorney, how the heck could you get pulled up by that?
00:21:38.079 --> 00:21:42.640
Well, he was in distress, he was distracted.
00:21:42.640 --> 00:21:53.279
He had uh at the time that this scam came through, there was a friend of his who was in like physical like health, like serious health distress.
00:21:53.279 --> 00:21:59.759
He's trying to help that friend, and this the the notice that he missed jury duty comes.
00:21:59.759 --> 00:22:05.279
Through and he thinks, well, yeah, I guess that could have happened because I've been so busy trying to help my friend.
00:22:05.279 --> 00:22:10.720
I could have missed a jury duty notice or the some notice that I needed to appear in court.
00:22:10.720 --> 00:22:15.279
And as a practicing attorney, when the court says you need to appear, you better be there.
00:22:15.279 --> 00:22:17.440
I could have meant I could have missed that.
00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:19.839
So he so he engaged.
00:22:19.839 --> 00:22:28.720
And the the criminal um said, Well, you know, you you can make this go away, you just need to pay this fine.
00:22:28.720 --> 00:22:36.400
She's like, Okay, because I'm worried about my friend, I'm upset about, I kind of need to make this go away right now.
00:22:36.400 --> 00:22:49.599
And so he did, he he engaged to do that, got the money, went to an ATM that also functioned as a crypto ATM.
00:22:49.599 --> 00:22:59.119
And when went through the transaction, and after that, he realized I think this this was not good.
00:22:59.119 --> 00:23:01.839
This I think my money was just stolen.
00:23:01.839 --> 00:23:05.039
Like several thousand dollars was just stolen.
00:23:05.039 --> 00:23:13.440
Um but um but he was able actually to sue the company that owned that ATM to get some of his money back.
00:23:13.440 --> 00:23:19.519
Oh because the ATM, there there's some ATMs that not only have cash, but also all kinds of cryptocurrency.
00:23:19.519 --> 00:23:20.960
It's very confusing.
00:23:20.960 --> 00:23:25.920
There were no warnings, there were no guardrails, stop gaps, and he and he'd sued them.
00:23:25.920 --> 00:23:49.440
Now with our cryptocurrency regulation, and there aren't that many states in the country that have it, but Maryland's one of them, when that's fully implemented, there will be guardrails, there will be a paper trail, there will be warnings that you know that you're engaging in um, you could be in engaging in a scam or being targeted by a scam because you're sending money.
00:23:49.440 --> 00:24:06.640
There was one um I heard this story when um from AARP from the National Office, they were they were testifying on Capitol Hill, and there was there was a woman who, older woman who came into like a you know, a convenience store.
00:24:06.640 --> 00:24:17.839
I can't remember the convenience store, but she went to the convenience store and she was just filing like money like cash bill after bill after bill after bill.
00:24:17.839 --> 00:24:34.240
And the two people who were, you know, the cashiers were so concerned about her because she was so tired and so distressed, they got her a chair so she could be more comfortable while she was feeding the money to the crypto ATM.
00:24:34.240 --> 00:24:34.880
Yeah.
00:24:35.519 --> 00:24:36.160
Wow.
00:24:36.160 --> 00:24:40.960
And that just and they got her a chair.
00:24:41.200 --> 00:24:42.720
They got her a chair, and she kept it going.
00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:46.240
Yes, and she kept kept it going.
00:24:46.640 --> 00:24:50.240
You know, um that we have to look out for people.
00:24:50.240 --> 00:24:51.519
We have to look out for each other.
00:24:51.519 --> 00:24:52.880
That's another thing that I stress.
00:24:52.880 --> 00:24:56.960
Number one, it can happen to anybody, but also we have to look out for each other.
00:24:56.960 --> 00:25:03.359
Um, you know, I don't know how comfortable people can be like, hey, why are you putting all that money in the ATM?
00:25:03.359 --> 00:25:10.319
But to to see somebody doing that, doing that, um, it really it's a it's a red flag for for me.
00:25:10.319 --> 00:25:12.799
I would be like, are are you okay?
00:25:13.119 --> 00:25:13.839
Yeah, I don't know.
00:25:13.839 --> 00:25:16.160
Well, I think the tone is everything.
00:25:16.160 --> 00:25:16.880
Absolutely.
00:25:16.880 --> 00:25:25.440
In last in last year's Protect We campaign, we had another person um who um told her story.
00:25:25.440 --> 00:25:41.599
And she she had been targeted and she she had been told to cash out money, to close out her account, and to um to cat cash out money and to give it to the crook.
00:25:41.599 --> 00:25:47.279
The crook was on the phone with her, giving her these specific instructions, and she went to the bank.
00:25:47.279 --> 00:26:00.319
She'd she'd gone to a couple of banks, but the last bank that she went to, the bank manager kind of pulled her aside and just in a really gentle, concerned voice, just said, you know, are are you okay?
00:26:00.319 --> 00:26:02.240
What's uh what's going on?
00:26:02.240 --> 00:26:09.200
I mean, um you know, is uh are you sure that uh there isn't something going on?
00:26:09.200 --> 00:26:13.599
And then she started crying and then she told her story.
00:26:14.240 --> 00:26:14.480
Yes.
00:26:14.720 --> 00:26:24.160
And then they were able to stop that last part of the scam because a person approached the target with kindness and genuine concern.
00:26:24.160 --> 00:26:24.319
Right.
00:26:24.319 --> 00:26:27.279
And that could be enough to break the break the stranglehold.
00:26:27.599 --> 00:26:39.599
Absolutely, and and I agree with that so wholeheartedly because um, yes, we have so many of these scams that end up being just financially disastrous for people.
00:26:39.599 --> 00:26:51.680
But if there is that one person that, and the more we get the the message out to people, like this is happening, this is real, let's look out for out for one another.
00:26:51.680 --> 00:27:03.519
I think the more that we can we have a chance to help somebody before, you know, maybe not 100%, hey, happy ending, but get them to say, to tell their story.
00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:07.359
Because when they tell their story, they're helping someone else too.
00:27:07.359 --> 00:27:12.400
Um we have to be open and we have to be because that's what scammers count on.
00:27:12.400 --> 00:27:16.000
They they count on shame and silence.
00:27:16.319 --> 00:27:17.680
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
00:27:17.680 --> 00:27:19.200
Not like currency to them.
00:27:19.519 --> 00:27:20.720
Yes, absolutely.
00:27:20.720 --> 00:27:27.200
And so, no, we that shame, that silence has to be broken because again, it's an abusive relationship.
00:27:27.440 --> 00:27:29.039
It's an abusive relationship.
00:27:29.039 --> 00:27:30.960
I I tell people, tell everybody.
00:27:30.960 --> 00:27:33.839
Yes, just like hallelujah, I'm a scam, you know.
00:27:34.319 --> 00:27:34.799
Exactly.
00:27:34.799 --> 00:27:35.279
Yes.
00:27:35.279 --> 00:27:40.240
I I came out and it happened to me because it can happen to anybody.
00:27:40.240 --> 00:27:43.440
I'm so proud to be able to help you because hallelujah, I'm a scam.
00:27:43.680 --> 00:27:44.880
Right, you know, so yeah.
00:27:44.880 --> 00:27:55.759
Yeah, we we have to and and we have to get out the word more effectively that when somebody tells you it's a secret, that's the problem.
00:27:55.759 --> 00:27:56.400
Exactly.
00:27:56.400 --> 00:28:08.720
It should not, it's and and in any abusive relationship, emotional relationship, you know, even with you know, the sexual abuse, what's the first thing that that person says?
00:28:08.720 --> 00:28:11.519
Don't, that's just this is just between you and me.
00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:13.200
This is special just between you and me.
00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:14.559
Don't tell anyone.
00:28:14.559 --> 00:28:24.160
And so the criminal in stealing this money says, you know, you're you're helping us build a case, because we've heard that one before.
00:28:24.160 --> 00:28:26.079
You're helping us build a case.
00:28:26.079 --> 00:28:32.799
If you tell anybody, even your spouse, that will compromise our case, and we won't be able to get the criminal.
00:28:32.799 --> 00:28:43.519
So just transfer all of your funds to keep them safe from your bank account into our special locker, and we will hold it safe for you until the criminal, okay.
00:28:43.519 --> 00:28:46.559
This actually happened to someone, too, resident of Montgomery County.
00:28:46.559 --> 00:28:57.119
Um, we will keep your money safe in our special locker until the case is completed, and then we will give you your money back.
00:28:57.119 --> 00:28:58.160
None of that happened.
00:28:58.160 --> 00:28:58.480
Yeah.
00:28:58.480 --> 00:28:59.680
None of that happened.
00:28:59.680 --> 00:29:00.880
Her funds were stolen.
00:29:00.880 --> 00:29:01.279
Yes.
00:29:01.279 --> 00:29:05.359
And here's an while while we're on the subject, here's another pet peeve of mine.
00:29:05.359 --> 00:29:05.920
Yeah.
00:29:05.920 --> 00:29:20.559
Uh well, that may be a little strong, but anyway, I I am really trying to get away from and I'm encouraging reporters, anybody in the public space to refrain from saying that so-and-so lost their money in a scam.
00:29:20.559 --> 00:29:22.079
They didn't lose their money.
00:29:22.079 --> 00:29:23.599
They know where their money's supposed to be.
00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:23.839
Yes.
00:29:23.839 --> 00:29:25.119
It's supposed to be in the bank.
00:29:25.119 --> 00:29:25.279
Yes.
00:29:25.279 --> 00:29:33.359
It's supposed to be in the investment account, it's supposed to be in the 529, you know, account or whatever.
00:29:33.359 --> 00:29:34.880
It was stolen.
00:29:34.880 --> 00:29:36.160
That's why it's not there.
00:29:36.160 --> 00:29:43.200
I'm no, I wasn't like, you know, just like confused and just, oh, I think I put my money in the trash can.
00:29:43.200 --> 00:29:44.880
No, that's not what happened.
00:29:44.880 --> 00:29:47.119
Someone attacked me.
00:29:47.119 --> 00:29:47.759
Yes.
00:29:47.759 --> 00:29:55.839
It was an attack, and the attack resulted in my money being stolen.
00:29:56.160 --> 00:29:56.559
That's right.
00:29:56.799 --> 00:29:57.680
That's what's going on.
00:29:57.920 --> 00:29:58.720
That's right.
00:29:58.720 --> 00:30:04.960
And we have the right to protect our hearts and our finances.
00:30:04.960 --> 00:30:12.079
We should feel safe with whoever we are dealing with, speaking to.
00:30:12.079 --> 00:30:15.200
We should feel safe and secure.
00:30:15.200 --> 00:30:27.279
Um, our families, our loved ones should um be we shouldn't should be open to to knowing who we're talking to, who we're dealing with.
00:30:27.279 --> 00:30:36.559
Um just to be just to be in a in a in a in a position where where you're okay and you're not being attacked, because that is an attack.
00:30:36.559 --> 00:30:37.839
That is an attack.
00:30:37.839 --> 00:30:44.480
And it might be very slow, it might be very gentle at first, but then uh then the hammer comes down.
00:30:44.720 --> 00:30:45.039
That's right.
00:30:45.039 --> 00:30:45.599
That's right.
00:30:45.599 --> 00:30:50.000
And and and you're you're distressed, you're panicked, you don't know what to do.
00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:50.319
Yeah.
00:30:50.319 --> 00:30:55.680
And so you you will do anything to to make the situation go away.
00:30:55.680 --> 00:31:05.039
Does that involve rescuing your loved one, you know, because they've been arrested or they've been there in an accident or something like that.
00:31:05.039 --> 00:31:07.359
That's happened in my family, yeah.
00:31:07.359 --> 00:31:17.200
Where um someone uh where it was really my mom was told that that her grandson had been arrested.
00:31:17.200 --> 00:31:25.440
And this was before we have as much awareness about these scams as we do today, but she went into superhero mode as grandparents often do.
00:31:25.440 --> 00:31:27.680
I don't remember having that kind of relationship.
00:31:27.680 --> 00:31:34.079
My grandparents, I don't remember my grandparents spoiling me like that, but these days, grandparents do everything for their grandparents.
00:31:34.079 --> 00:31:59.519
They had that special relationship with the grandchildren, and and my mom did with her grandchildren, and she leapt into superhero mode, starts sending money, and the only reason that it stopped was because my my brother and and my and my nephew, her grandson, happened to stop by the house, and my mother looked at them like, well, you know, I just saved your life.
00:31:59.519 --> 00:32:01.359
Why aren't you more grateful?
00:32:01.359 --> 00:32:06.000
And my my grand my nephew's like, What are you talking about?
00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:17.680
And and then when they discussed it, it's like, oh my God, it what happened was that your the money was stolen because I was fine, I was where I was supposed to be.
00:32:17.680 --> 00:32:20.240
She never discussed this.
00:32:20.240 --> 00:32:27.119
I mean, my brother knew because my brother was there, but she didn't tell her daughter, the lawyer, about this because of the shame involved.
00:32:27.119 --> 00:32:29.680
And I never would have, I never would have judged her.
00:32:29.680 --> 00:32:33.920
I would have judged the criminals because to me that's that's that's the issue.
00:32:33.920 --> 00:32:34.480
It's not her.
00:32:34.480 --> 00:32:34.960
And that's what I'm saying.
00:32:34.960 --> 00:32:37.359
Of course she wants to rescue her grandson.
00:32:37.359 --> 00:32:38.160
That's human.
00:32:38.400 --> 00:32:38.720
Yes.
00:32:38.720 --> 00:32:42.319
And that and and that's what we have to remember um when we're victimized.
00:32:42.319 --> 00:32:47.039
Um at the end of the day, our loved ones love us, and they're just happy that we're safe.
00:32:47.039 --> 00:32:50.799
We want happiness and health for them and and safety.
00:32:50.799 --> 00:32:54.720
And so the shame does have to just we have to set that apart.
00:32:54.960 --> 00:32:56.480
We ha shame is a waste of time.
00:32:56.480 --> 00:32:57.200
It really is.
00:32:57.200 --> 00:33:07.279
It really is, because we need to understand what's really going on here, and what's really going on is that criminals are stealing.
00:33:07.279 --> 00:33:17.759
And just like you wouldn't feel ashamed if you walked outside and somebody tried to mug you, you wouldn't come back and say, Oh my god, I can't believe I brought this on myself.
00:33:17.759 --> 00:33:25.680
You know, I was walking along and this person came up to me, and I just I handed over the money because I thought they had a gun, but I'm so ashamed.
00:33:25.680 --> 00:33:27.599
You know, you don't waste time with that.
00:33:27.599 --> 00:33:29.279
You're like, somebody attack me.
00:33:29.279 --> 00:33:30.079
This is horrible.
00:33:30.079 --> 00:33:31.119
Where are the police?
00:33:31.119 --> 00:33:33.440
They need to be in jail.
00:33:33.440 --> 00:33:34.000
Exactly.
00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:38.640
That's the same outrage that we need to have for these criminals.
00:33:38.640 --> 00:33:44.480
They don't use guns, they weaponize our emotions and they mold them into the shape of a gun.
00:33:44.480 --> 00:33:45.519
That's what they do.
00:33:45.519 --> 00:33:49.279
And it can be more powerful than an actual physical weapon.
00:33:49.440 --> 00:33:49.680
Yeah.
00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:51.440
Because we all have emotions.
00:33:51.599 --> 00:33:51.920
That's right.
00:33:52.079 --> 00:33:53.200
We're all vulnerable.
00:33:53.200 --> 00:33:53.680
Yeah.
00:33:53.680 --> 00:33:56.079
We we all feel misunderstood.
00:33:56.079 --> 00:33:58.240
Who around here doesn't feel misunderstood?
00:33:58.240 --> 00:33:59.119
I know I do.
00:33:59.119 --> 00:33:59.599
Yes.
00:34:00.160 --> 00:34:00.480
That's right.
00:34:00.480 --> 00:34:00.640
No.
00:34:00.640 --> 00:34:02.000
I bet you do too, Michelle.
00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:03.039
Yes, absolutely.
00:34:03.039 --> 00:34:04.960
I'm gonna say hallelujah, amen.
00:34:04.960 --> 00:34:06.000
That's right.
00:34:07.200 --> 00:34:07.759
Karen.
00:34:07.759 --> 00:34:12.239
Um we could go on and on about this subject.
00:34:12.239 --> 00:34:15.360
I mean, it really is just it's it's immense.
00:34:15.360 --> 00:34:29.519
And it's evolved from these uh maybe these strange little emails that we used to receive to uh just this social, everyone, these social platforms, everyone in our our information is out there.
00:34:29.519 --> 00:34:30.239
Oh, yes.
00:34:30.239 --> 00:34:32.639
But we're looking out for each other.
00:34:32.639 --> 00:34:44.400
Um and I think we're uh I'm gonna I want to ask you uh is there number one, is there a piece of advice that you just at last words for us?
00:34:44.800 --> 00:34:46.559
Last words, there are three.
00:34:46.800 --> 00:34:47.119
Okay.
00:34:47.519 --> 00:34:50.880
Pause, reflect, protect.
00:34:50.880 --> 00:34:52.719
That's our mantra to AARP.
00:34:52.719 --> 00:35:01.280
When that when that contact comes from out of the blue, pause, reflect, go, review it.
00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:09.119
Even if your grandson ran over 50 pregnant women and your grandson was only three, five minutes is gonna change that situation.
00:35:09.119 --> 00:35:12.320
So take five minutes and think about what's really going on here.
00:35:12.320 --> 00:35:13.760
Run it by somebody.
00:35:13.760 --> 00:35:16.000
We often talk about getting a fraud buddy.
00:35:16.000 --> 00:35:19.280
Yeah, I'm a fraud buddy, and I have a fraud buddy.
00:35:19.280 --> 00:35:21.199
I have a cousin who's my fraud buddy.
00:35:21.199 --> 00:35:25.519
She is she just has great, you know, razor-sharp sense.
00:35:25.519 --> 00:35:25.760
Yeah.
00:35:25.760 --> 00:35:27.360
I trust her judgment.
00:35:27.360 --> 00:35:32.320
And I'm willing to do that for people in my family, and I'm willing to do it for my friends.
00:35:32.320 --> 00:35:39.199
So we can all be fraud buddies to people, and they can be fraud buddies to us, and that way we can help each other.
00:35:39.199 --> 00:35:42.880
So so, and that's how we can protect ourselves.
00:35:42.880 --> 00:35:53.599
And we can also just secure our finances, make sure we know what's really going on with our finances in real time, or call, you know, looking at checking our accounts.
00:35:53.599 --> 00:36:03.840
You have to be proactive these days about checking, checking your financial accounts to make sure that from a trusted source from a trusted platform.
00:36:03.840 --> 00:36:08.079
So we have to pause because things are happening lightning fast.
00:36:08.079 --> 00:36:09.519
Don't get caught up in the speed.
00:36:09.519 --> 00:36:14.239
Slow it down because that scammers don't have a good weapon against that.
00:36:14.239 --> 00:36:30.000
Reflect because your emotions ramp down and your logic comes to the fore, and then you can analyze what's really going on and then protect by running it by somebody or by looking at your finances and making sure that things are where they're supposed to be.
00:36:30.320 --> 00:36:30.880
I love that.
00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:32.719
Pause, reflect, and protect.
00:36:32.719 --> 00:36:33.760
That's exactly.
00:36:33.760 --> 00:36:38.639
And that's for that's for this, for contracts.
00:36:38.639 --> 00:36:41.840
I I I that's a perfect one for even for the contracts.
00:36:41.840 --> 00:36:45.360
Me as a home improvement person, yes, pause.
00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:48.079
Don't sign a contract so quickly.
00:36:48.079 --> 00:36:48.800
Think about it.
00:36:48.800 --> 00:36:50.239
You might want to read that contract.
00:36:50.239 --> 00:36:52.239
Exactly.
00:36:52.239 --> 00:36:52.960
Right.
00:36:52.960 --> 00:36:54.880
That's awesome.
00:36:54.880 --> 00:37:02.719
Um, how do you celebrate love and connection uh with family, friends, anyone special?
00:37:02.719 --> 00:37:04.559
How do you what's that look like for you?
00:37:04.800 --> 00:37:06.800
Okay, this is when they haven't gotten on my lesson.
00:37:06.800 --> 00:37:08.400
Oh, okay.
00:37:08.400 --> 00:37:10.719
Um let me see.
00:37:11.119 --> 00:37:13.280
How do you relate to that too?
00:37:14.719 --> 00:37:20.480
I I do, uh, you know, my family's far away, like the way your family is far away.
00:37:20.480 --> 00:37:22.239
My family's scattered all over the place.
00:37:22.239 --> 00:37:26.239
So I'm I'm on the phone a lot with them, or Zoom calls or whatever.
00:37:26.239 --> 00:37:29.119
Um, or like I will travel.
00:37:29.119 --> 00:37:34.079
I have a nephew who's uh an assistant basketball coach for Big 12 School.
00:37:34.079 --> 00:37:34.719
Oh, nice.
00:37:34.719 --> 00:37:41.840
So I've gone to his games and met up with my brother and my sister-in-law and my and my niece and nephew.
00:37:41.840 --> 00:37:43.840
And that's a that's a great way.
00:37:43.840 --> 00:37:46.079
And it doesn't have to be a special occasion, it's right.
00:37:46.079 --> 00:37:51.599
It's just it's just a lot of fun, and I and I'm hoping to be able to do that um this year.
00:37:51.920 --> 00:37:52.559
Oh, me too.
00:37:52.559 --> 00:38:03.039
I have a cousin who I you know it doesn't have to be a special occasion occasion, but he's in El Paso um with his family, and he's like a brother to me, and I can't wait to go see him.
00:38:03.039 --> 00:38:06.239
I want to go see him this year too, and that's a perfect way to connect with people.
00:38:06.559 --> 00:38:08.800
That's a perfect way to see and to see them in person.
00:38:08.800 --> 00:38:09.360
That's right.
00:38:09.360 --> 00:38:12.079
You know, I love I just I I'm a people person.
00:38:12.079 --> 00:38:16.239
I I love being able to talk to people in person, which is why this has been so great.
00:38:16.239 --> 00:38:19.679
Because it's like we could have done this through Zoom, but this is so much cooler.
00:38:19.920 --> 00:38:21.280
Absolutely, absolutely.
00:38:21.280 --> 00:38:22.800
You can feel the energy.
00:38:22.800 --> 00:38:26.239
Thank you so much for being with us today.
00:38:26.239 --> 00:38:26.960
Oh, thank you.
00:38:27.119 --> 00:38:28.079
Thank you for having me.
00:38:28.079 --> 00:38:30.320
We really appreciate being here too.
00:38:30.639 --> 00:38:31.679
All right, thanks.
00:38:32.559 --> 00:38:41.360
To everyone listening, here's what I want you to remember you deserve real connection, and you have the right to protect your heart and your finances.
00:38:41.360 --> 00:38:45.840
If something feels rushed or too good to be true, pause.
00:38:45.840 --> 00:38:48.000
Ask yourself questions.
00:38:48.000 --> 00:38:49.920
Does this make sense?
00:38:49.920 --> 00:38:52.000
Why the urgency?
00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:59.440
When I do this for someone I've never met in person, scammers count on silence and shame.
00:38:59.440 --> 00:39:01.440
Don't give them that power.
00:39:01.440 --> 00:39:07.519
Share what you've learned today with friends and family and keep the conversation going.
00:39:07.519 --> 00:39:11.199
Thank you for joining us on Consumer Connection.
00:39:11.199 --> 00:39:12.800
Until next time.
00:39:12.800 --> 00:39:24.159
Don't forget to subscribe on your favorite podcast platform and keep an eye out for upcoming episodes where we'll continue to bring you important updates and insights on consumer protection.
00:39:24.159 --> 00:39:28.559
Have a topic in mind for a future episode or a question for our team?
00:39:28.559 --> 00:39:33.840
Drop us an email at consumerconnection at Montgomery CountyMD.gov.
00:39:33.840 --> 00:39:45.440
If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with your friends and family and stay in the loop with OCP by searching the hashtag MCGOCP on social media.
00:39:45.440 --> 00:39:50.320
Remember, knowledge is key for safeguarding your consumer rights.
00:39:50.320 --> 00:39:54.239
Stay informed, stay protected, and stay connected.
00:39:54.239 --> 00:39:55.840
Until next time.
00:39:56.639 --> 00:40:04.320
This podcast is brought to you by County Cable Montgomery, your source for news and information from the Montgomery County government.
00:40:04.320 --> 00:40:11.119
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