Jeff Hrusko:
0:08
Hello, and welcome to another episode of COG where we explore why people learn why they don't and some of the things that make the difference. I'm your host, Jeff Hrusko, Instructional Technologist and designer. And I'm very happy to have Howard Lewis joining me today. Howard has written his own company called integrated performance solutions. Is that right?
Howard Lewis:
0:30
Yes, thank you.
Jeff Hrusko:
0:31
You've run this business for over 20 years now. He has vast experience in the learning and development area. And in our current times, when the majority of us are working from home, sometimes for the first time, one of the biggest challenges is, how do we stay engaged when your teammates are sometimes on the other end of the country or sometimes the world? So Howard, welcome, and thank you. And let me start by asking you, I know, when we talked before this, you were saying that you have actually worked with virtual teams for quite a while and so you have a good understanding of what works in this space. Is that right?
Howard Lewis:
1:13
Yes, actually, much to my surprise, when the pandemic hit, and everyone was moving to a virtual environment, then I was like, Oh, you know, I've been doing this for a while, like, how long have I been doing this? and turns out, it's been 26 years, working, working remotely managing virtual teams across that time. And so I thought, at that point in time, I was like, Well, you know, perhaps I have some experiences, things that have worked and not work that would be worth sharing with everyone who was, you know, volunteered to move to the virtual environment, as opposed to potentially choosing it. So now they're thrust into this world. And all they've got to be productive. And that's can be challenging if you haven't been in this kind of work environment previously.
Jeff Hrusko:
2:17
It is a trial by fire. I mean, for us in the professional world, too. But certainly for kids and teachers. A lot of us and them are learning to do this, because we have to. So things must have been much different when you first started doing this, some 20 odd years ago, was it just telephonic communication? Or?
Howard Lewis:
2:38
Well, in a lot of ways, we did have video teleconferencing that we were able to leverage, much like what we're doing today with video conferencing. But it was such a an interesting experience, my leader at that time came into my office and just one day out of the blue and said, Hey, I'd like for you to go virtual, we're going to cut your workspace, the physical space in the office in half. And why don't you go ahead and implement this virtual concept, which again, sort of in the mid 90s, was not very common, not really heard of. And there was an advertising firm in Santa Monica, California, Shai day, and they had started to implement this virtual office concept. And so we went down there and visited with them and got to see what they were doing and trying to help people stay connected, stay engaged, and how they really set up what was shared space, and the different techniques that were used when people did come into a shared physical office space. And then, of course, how you manage people when they are all working independently or working remotely. So we picked up some, you know, really interesting ideas from them. And sure enough, we, our space was cut in half, and we started the virtual office. And
Jeff Hrusko:
4:20
it's kind of like that movie office space. The poor guy keeps getting moved from cubicle then to the copy room, and then I think eventually ends up in the broom closet. Yeah.
Howard Lewis:
4:34
Right. Well, ours wasn't quite that bad. But yeah, it's the type of situation where you're sort of at that time the company was expanding rapidly, and they just simply needed more space for call center and claims operations, things of that nature. And so as the training and development function, you know, we got volunteered to reduce our space But it really worked out? Well. You know, one of the things that really was clear for me at that time was how we were working on a project basis, you know, so clear deliverables, clear deadlines, you know, you knew what you had to do. And at that point, it was like, Well, does it really matter if they work here or there? Or was it more about how do you produce a quality deliverable against a deadline. And so that really positioned us well to implement the a virtual office and yet still hold people accountable for what they had to produce?
Jeff Hrusko:
5:49
That's the bottom line, isn't it? If you can produce things at the same pace, it doesn't matter if you're home or in an office. So what are some lessons you've learned over the years about keeping people engaged when they're virtual?
Howard Lewis:
6:03
I think it starts with clear expectations. This is, who we are, what we do what we're responsible to produce, and the people that we serve or support, you know, whether that's internal customers, or external customers or clients, but really being clear about expectations, and that with those expectations, then you have clear development timelines, or project timelines, and that with good milestones, then we're able to have a frequent check in points to make sure that people were moving down the path, you know, in the most efficient and effective way possible. But also, if they run into obstacles, barriers, or start to drift off the optimal path, then it's easier to push them back in and stay on that high productivity basis.
Jeff Hrusko:
7:12
I have definitely gained an appreciation for video. I mean, I have worked from home on occasion, maybe once a week or a couple times a month. And meetings, I would just dial into bond. In this experience, I really look forward to seeing everybody in a zoom call or WebEx and faces. Like when you're in isolation, there's something beautiful about just seeing other people, what do you think
Howard Lewis:
7:42
That does make a big difference. And while even back in the 90s, as I mentioned, we had that video conferencing capability. And that really did make a difference that enabled us at that time to connect directly across the United States where we had team members in different regions. And so that video getting together, it did bring that level of you know, being much more personal and more connected in that way. And there are real people working on real projects. And it gave us a time to not only focus on the business, but to connect socially and connect as a team. And we would then and now we see it even more so that every opportunity that I joined a video conference, I come away with it going, you know, that actually was kind of nice. So it was nice to see that person. And I just felt a greater connection with people through video. So definitely agree with you there that it's good. Even though you know, sometimes it feels uncomfortable. It's a little extra, you know, you might have to comb your hair or something. But
Jeff Hrusko:
9:11
my closet is actually within arm's reach. So by the zoom meeting, I just, exactly,
Howard Lewis:
9:17
exactly and, and but at the same time, it just it really is surprising to have that connection.
Jeff Hrusko:
9:26
You when you think about your work day, and I know when I schedule a project, I schedule about six hours of work day on average, you know, sometimes it's more sometimes it's less, because when you think about the office, about 10 to 20% of it is chatting with colleagues, with people you see in the lunchroom, how are you doing? How are the kids what's new, and and in my experience, I mean that kind of, for lack of a better word small talk is hugely important and actually enhances people's performance and their deliverables. I mean, I think a good six hours working is more productive than 12 hours of staring at a computer and not having interaction
Howard Lewis:
10:22
of Absolutely. And you could even connect it with the human resource studies and data and employee satisfaction surveys, that connection with other people that they enjoy working with their teammates, colleagues with the organization itself, that always gets very highly ranked. And I think it it is important, I mean, we are humans, we do have that desire to have good social connection, and people and joy, working with the people that they enjoy working with. And that, in turn drives productivity.
Jeff Hrusko:
11:07
Of course, on the other end of that are unfocused meetings that are a time suck, and go nowhere.
Howard Lewis:
11:15
Yes. Well, right, exactly. And, you know, that's gonna happen, whether we're not together working independently, whether we're doing it via phone or email or servers, that that are, you know, the sort of negative aspect is always there and needs to be managed carefully. And, right, exactly. But you know, imagine just trying to work in a complete vacuum, here's your document, or here's this response, and it just doesn't quite have the same power, as when we're connected as people with each other.
Jeff Hrusko:
11:58
Yeah, it's basic meeting etiquette. But it doesn't hurt to be reminded of that. I've done quite a few job aids over the years, and not just setting an agenda. I asked the question. Why are we meeting? What do we hope to gain from this meeting? Just clearly lay it out. And at the start of the meeting, just ask everybody is, are we in agreement on this? Are these the issues? Is there something else we should be talking about? And it's fine, I usually reserve the first five minutes of a meeting for the fun human stuff, kind of around Robin? What's new? Sometimes I even ask a trivia question, which some people like and some people hate. But make sure it's some way relevant to what we're talking about?
Howard Lewis:
12:48
Yes, exactly. And so if you do have those desired meeting outcomes, and before, you know, focusing in particular, on time that we're together, as a group or the project level, wherever that might be, is having those desired outcomes. being clear about roles and responsibilities, everyone has been on the same page in terms of staying on track, helping bring people back to a topic, you know, tabling topics, if it's outside of the desired outcomes for that particular meeting, taking good notes, clarifying action items of the things we know about effective meetings, really play in. And now, when we are trying to do that via video conferencing and everybody's remote, then it becomes even more important, because we don't have that time where in a face to face meeting, people get up and then they start clarifying things with each other on the way out the door. Or you could lean over to the cubicle next to you to ask a clarifying question. We don't have that immediacy. Like we do face to face or in a shared workspace, and therefore, having that meeting structure and clarity really uses the time efficiently and make sure that those outcomes are achieved. And at the same time, you know, people have that interaction and then being able to build in some time for that, like you were describing it's whether it's a trivia thing, you know, what's, what's your favorite movie? What movie Have you seen
Jeff Hrusko:
14:42
lately? What embarrassing show Have you binge watch during quarantine?
Howard Lewis:
14:49
Yes. And so that's the, you know, building that in because one of the desired outcomes of every single meeting should be connection, you know, is there even if it's 60 seconds or 90 seconds, what are you doing to connect the team members to connect a, a project team.
Jeff Hrusko:
15:13
So one of the things that took me a while to get used to and get my head around is when I would have design team meetings in the office, we'd all get together in a conference room, and they would be posted notes and a lot of interaction. So trying to do that virtually took me a bit, but then I discovered, a lot of these applications that we use include whiteboards in them. And once you it, there is a learning curve. But I found once you can get into that, it becomes similar, if everybody is looking at the same thing and talking about the same thing and bringing their ideas, you know, you could translate that experience to virtual space,
Howard Lewis:
15:57
that's a great technique in terms of a shared whiteboard space. Sometimes it's fun, just to cut people loose. And with controls, and everybody's writing up on the board at the same time. And by but at the same time, then when you sort of settle in, and then pass the access, if you will pass the pen, then that can sort of help just manage that process, I think a little more efficiently. And then we just need to pay attention to make sure everyone is included and has a voice.
Jeff Hrusko:
16:39
And of course, another kind of funny aspect of video links is you, you're at home, and you can always control what's in the background.
Howard Lewis:
16:51
Sure, you know, the dad come to visit. And I would say to me, it's not that's not a bad thing, it just
Jeff Hrusko:
17:01
remember so many times, especially when VTC was relatively new, but it still happens. And you would have an all hands meeting or big meeting a big conference, and 100 people in the audience. And then you'd have VTC people from different offices. And that always be like two or three, where it's just one guy in a room in Albuquerque, or somewhere that doesn't realize he's on camera. And for some reason those people are showing us big,
Howard Lewis:
17:34
right, the
Jeff Hrusko:
17:35
right center, and you hear the guy like oh, yeah, I'm just doing this thing I have to sit here.
Howard Lewis:
17:42
Exactly.
Jeff Hrusko:
17:50
But what I'm saying is, in a live meeting, you can see or read a lot of nonverbal communication. Sometimes you can see it on people's faces, you know, if they have something that might be pensive, and you can be smart about it, you could do the same thing with video. To more limited degree, but at least you can see, we can see if somebody's nodding off anyway. Yes,
Howard Lewis:
18:15
and that's what we do get the nonverbal communication and the benefit of reading people when we are on video, and that definitely helps significantly. And at the same time, it depends on how many people are attending, if you have 100 people attending, you can't necessarily see everyone even with a gallery view. So it's, we have to look for ways to make sure people were included and to give them voice and that can be as simple as, okay, you know, if you feel that this is optimal direction in which to move then give me a thumbs up and then you can see thumbs up or thumbs down or, you know, raise your hand or lower your hand. There are some mechanical things in video conferencing platforms that we can take advantage of to, again, make sure that everybody's included in in feels that they are a part and they actually are a part of contributing to what everyone's trying to accomplish.
Jeff Hrusko:
19:34
During webinars, not I guess you could also do this during team meetings, but especially for any sort of virtual classroom. Polls, live polling, I think is a great way to get people engaged and also gauge their reactions to things.
Howard Lewis:
19:52
Absolutely. And when we design virtual classroom experiences and I think a lot of it does carry over into To virtual meetings and virtual teams, but that one of the most important things is to drive 100% participation. And even if you think about that back to face to face classrooms, that if you ask an overhead question, what normally happens, there are one or two people that are pretty vocal and will speak up, and then everybody else is kind of comfortable riding their coattails. Whereas if you are looking to drive 100% participation in a physical classroom, you might say something to the effect of take a moment and jot down your top three ideas. And then everybody writes it down. And now I can use a round robin approach or, you know, Snake through the room and have everyone contribute, well, we can carry that into the virtual environment. And then take advantage of the software mechanics, like you mentioned the polling function, or raise your hand or put your three ideas down into the chat area. If you've got a ton of people then use the breakout capability, okay, everybody go out, generate a list of ideas, and then have choose a spokesperson, then we'll reconvene, we've got five people that then share each individual group's contributions. So they're definitely nice mechanical ways to drive participation and make sure everybody's included.
Jeff Hrusko:
21:45
I know, that's something I've definitely employed in large conferences, breaking people up into smaller groups, because it really helps, especially with the people that might be shy, speaking in front of all those people, at least with a group they could interact. And I think, with some of the platforms now I know, zoom, has a team's definitely has it, you can do that you can do the breakout rooms. So do you have any advice as far as selection of platform you should use?
Howard Lewis:
22:17
Well, the good news is that there was a very nice selection now, and that perhaps, you know, 10 years ago or so that one might be significantly stronger than the other, they've all come up to a pretty good level. And, of course, with a pandemic, they even ratcheted up their security measures, which is pretty important, too. But in terms of platforms, you know, though, you've got WebEx you've got zoom, join me. What are some other ones, Jeff, that you can think of? We'll talk about
Jeff Hrusko:
23:01
theirs, cool Hangouts, or whatever they're calling it this week, Google meet. Yeah. And Microsoft Teams I've been using lately.
Howard Lewis:
23:09
Yeah. That's really nice. So they're quite a variety. And what do they all bring? Well, they bring the video capability, chat, polling, raising your hand or thumbs up something of that nature, which, again, just with those capabilities, you can really get people involved and have them be a part of the desired meeting outcomes, accomplishing those. And then if you look at, you know, a platform like Adobe Connect, which allows you to really structure and extend experience and bring in different presentations, Lincoln to activities have chat, and q&a, pods, and a whole variety of things. And particularly from a virtual classroom standpoint, then you've got even more capabilities and the ability to set things up in advance so that there's less work on the part of the facilitator.
Jeff Hrusko:
24:21
Yeah, not to get too much into the weeds on this stuff. I think. From my perspective, the important thing is when selecting a platform do a dry run before you invest fully in it, does it meet your needs? Like you were saying, right now, most of them are pretty comparable, but some are better than others and definitely tested in the environment that you want to do it if some people are on mobile. Then definitely tested on mobile device as well. If you need polling sound that translates you know, it's interesting. We were talking about this a little bit before the show. It's like with each technological leap you sort of have to retool a little bit. And in some ways, it's a little bit of a step back, like, for us kind of old timers, like we developed on CDs at one time. And then we had the leap to online, which then cut back on the amount of colors and the bandwidth that we had. And now, virtually, and mobile raises a lot of channels.
Howard Lewis:
25:25
That's true, especially thinking about that mobile end. And the difference between what you can accomplish in a desktop laptop sort of environment compared to much smaller screen real estate when we're looking at smartphones.
Jeff Hrusko:
25:45
So just going back into the topic at hand, from your experience, what are some of the pitfalls or challenges of a manager? managing a virtual team?
Howard Lewis:
25:58
I think the one that comes to mind first is the idea. It was heard of the bad idea of everything's going fine. I'm sure they're taking care of things, and they're doing great. And okay, yeah, they met this deadline or that deadline. But just assuming that everything's fine. And everybody's, you know, working well, and working efficiently doesn't have any problems. And, and that's really where staying connected with them and having a strategy for staying connected. I think that's probably first and foremost, one of the most important things with working with a virtual team.
Jeff Hrusko:
26:44
At the beginning of my career, I had some I didn't run at the time, but status meetings, where it was like, the old Congress from like, the Soviet Union, like I was everything. Everybody said, Yes, comrade, yes, the wheat is 20 feet high this year. So definitely part of leading any team is creating an environment where it's safe to express problems, that you're rewarded for bringing up an issue early in asking for help.
Howard Lewis:
27:19
But it is and then you have to make good decisions around when you check in that way. So if I'm with the whole team, and I'm like, who's struggling, who has a problem, or who's you know, who's behind, you know, like, I want to raise my hand first, in that situation. And so maybe that's not the best forum to ask that question.
Jeff Hrusko:
27:45
You could always tell there's a problem, especially if there's not video involved. If you hear a lot of typing and messages going back and forth, loop. Loop. It's the meeting underneath the meeting.
Howard Lewis:
28:01
Right? And so there's that you're making good decisions about, you know, what you're asking when you're asking it, how you're asking it, and that at the same time, we have to build a level of trust in our team, so that people can speak up. It's like, Hey, you know, I've been trying to download these files. It's taking forever. Do we have any? Do we have any other alternatives? Or is, has anyone figured out how to do this more efficiently? And that's where the team trust and team collaboration can really pay off.
Jeff Hrusko:
28:45
So to sort of bring it all together, let's kind of review what we said. And perhaps you can give some advice to people that are managing virtual teams. You said, first and foremost, everybody needs to know what is expected of them what their responsibilities are. Is that right?
Howard Lewis:
29:09
Yes. Sort of, in general, we know that having clear metrics, you know, what are we measuring? What are we striving to accomplish? and managing to those metrics is really important. You know, we know about key performance indicators, KPIs, when we know about the effective metrics and expectations and when we communicate that clearly, then people are like, Okay, I got it. I know what I'm here to accomplish. And now provide me with that support and direction to help me succeed in that performance. So I think that yes, that's sort of the overarching part of it and be clear. up front, monitor it and communicate throughout, and then recognize and acknowledge accomplishments at the end. So I think that's really important. And then to think about areas as a virtual team manager, about what am I doing to connect, what am I doing in my communications and have a good cadence with those communications, so that you're not overloading people, but then they're not sitting around wondering what's going on or what they're supposed to do. And then we need to create opportunities to collaborate. So that's a whole, you know, we, we looked at some of the advantages of the web conferencing, and what we can do to drive collaboration through a whiteboard, or other techniques. But there are lots of other ways in which we need to think about and establish good team collaboration. And then, of course, it comes down to that day to day performance coaching.
Jeff Hrusko:
31:13
Yes, and one of my personal philosophies, like with picking the platform is finding something that that sticks, you know, because when you think about any relationship between people, whether it's a boss, and their team, or to individuals, kind of creates its own thing, its own language, and that language develops over time. So the dynamic that works with one team may not work with the other, I learned this early in my career is like, Oh, I thought I had this down, you come in, you do this, this and this, and this, and this, and this happens. But with a different group of people, it doesn't and you have to adapt.
Howard Lewis:
31:55
But that's an excellent point. And it's really agility in that regard. And that being sort of thrown into the virtual world, as we all have been, that it is, you've got to be agile, it's, if that like, just like you said, if it's working, okay, continue, if it's not working, adapt and find a different way. And, you know, I think everybody's doing the very best that they can I look at what's happening in our, you know, k 12 education system in our universities, and, you know, they've been in our work, you know, work environments, as well. But everybody got thrown in the deep end of the swimming pool. And we're all trying to figure it out. And that it is making adjustments, understanding that we're in a very fluid situation at this time. And I think, you know, when I look at the schools and look at the universities, I look at corporate companies, and other organizations, nonprofits, and so forth, they everybody is doing the very best that they can to do as much as they can as quickly as they can. And you've got to be flexible and agile, because the conditions are changing by the day, and that what is happening today might not be what is going to happen tomorrow. And we need to be ready to be adapt. I guess that's the word I'm looking for. We have to be ready to adapt and to adapt quickly.
Jeff Hrusko:
33:51
I have no doubt. And I think you'll agree that what we're going through now will have an impact and ramifications forever. Really. Work won't be the same.
Howard Lewis:
34:03
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And so we're starting to see that I think something you mentioned previously is like, kind of what is the long term? Where do you think we're headed, and that there is the, you know, sort of getting tired of hearing new normal, but it isn't the normal. And that that new normal might be a little look a little different tomorrow, or next week or next year. But the kinds of capabilities that we all have developed in the last few months. And I mean, if you if you really were to look back in what was it around March, I guess that we you know, that lockdown started happening globally, that you know, we're only a few months later and the amount of change that has taken place and organizations, the amount of change has taken place socially, is, it's unbelievable. In the fact that people have adapted and adapted quickly. You know, I don't have data.
Jeff Hrusko:
35:21
Right? It's anecdotal. But it was certainly true for me that the first couple weeks were tough. He didn't have a division in days. But then I found if I woke up at the same time that I usually would go to commute and started working in a certain time it is yes, having a structure, that it helped me immensely.
Howard Lewis:
35:43
Right. So the, the, like, our kids came home from spring break and didn't go back, you know, and that overnight change in our education system across the board, and the overnight change that took place in organizations across the world. If you were to look back, again, it's whether what I was thinking about was, I don't necessarily have data at this time, but I'm not sure that our world has evolved. So quickly, and so much in a six month period, ever. If you look at, you know, the way in which technology sort of shifted, the way in which people work and learn has shifted, I mean, six months, is to completely change, for the most part, the way in which we work and the way in which we are educated. It's just so dramatically different, and it happened in such a compressed period of time. That, you know, frankly, it's amazing that we've been as productive as we have been. And that people really did jump in and take that challenge on, in order to keep things moving forward. And unfortunately, in some cases, you know, like the service industry was hit even harder, you know, organizations, particularly nonprofits that are dependent and work have historically been based on gathering people together, they've been hit really hard. And everyone's rapidly evolving and rapidly changing so that we can keep moving forward, and there will be long term changes that will help us, you know, will help us be more efficient, help us be more productive. And we're going to have to, you know, find that balance to, to continue.
Jeff Hrusko:
38:06
Well, Howard, it's been a pleasure, I want to thank you very much for your time. And, you know, I heard a rumor that you have developed a course just on this topic and engaging with virtual teams. Can you tell people how to find that course? Absolutely.
Howard Lewis:
38:21
So the course that we developed, and again, I just reflecting back over 26 years, and like, what's worked, what hasn't worked. And the course pulled that together to try to share some best practices to help people and support people. It's called effectively managing your virtual team. And it's a practical guide for working remotely. And so perhaps, Jeff, what we could do is, you know, share that link in conjunction with this recording, to make it easy for people to find access to it. But it's a course that contains a number of helpful quick references. And I think could really be a good way to help those that are new to managing virtual teams, and then to also provide some areas to potentially refine for those that have been supporting that kind of work already. And even in putting it together, I was discovering some new things and new experiences that are very recent, to try to pull in. And perhaps we could even open it up to ask people or invite people to share what's working for them as well.
Jeff Hrusko:
39:42
Well, I'll certainly put a link in the show notes, which if you click on the little information bar in the player, you should be able to ask and thank you so much for your time and for listening. And Howard. Thanks again.
Howard Lewis:
39:55
You bet. thank thank you very much. I appreciate the opportunity.
0:08
Hello, and welcome to another episode of COG where we explore why people learn why they don't and some of the things that make the difference. I'm your host, Jeff Hrusko, Instructional Technologist and designer. And I'm very happy to have Howard Lewis joining me today. Howard has written his own company called integrated performance solutions. Is that right?
Howard Lewis:
0:30
Yes, thank you.
Jeff Hrusko:
0:31
You've run this business for over 20 years now. He has vast experience in the learning and development area. And in our current times, when the majority of us are working from home, sometimes for the first time, one of the biggest challenges is, how do we stay engaged when your teammates are sometimes on the other end of the country or sometimes the world? So Howard, welcome, and thank you. And let me start by asking you, I know, when we talked before this, you were saying that you have actually worked with virtual teams for quite a while and so you have a good understanding of what works in this space. Is that right?
Howard Lewis:
1:13
Yes, actually, much to my surprise, when the pandemic hit, and everyone was moving to a virtual environment, then I was like, Oh, you know, I've been doing this for a while, like, how long have I been doing this? and turns out, it's been 26 years, working, working remotely managing virtual teams across that time. And so I thought, at that point in time, I was like, Well, you know, perhaps I have some experiences, things that have worked and not work that would be worth sharing with everyone who was, you know, volunteered to move to the virtual environment, as opposed to potentially choosing it. So now they're thrust into this world. And all they've got to be productive. And that's can be challenging if you haven't been in this kind of work environment previously.
Jeff Hrusko:
2:17
It is a trial by fire. I mean, for us in the professional world, too. But certainly for kids and teachers. A lot of us and them are learning to do this, because we have to. So things must have been much different when you first started doing this, some 20 odd years ago, was it just telephonic communication? Or?
Howard Lewis:
2:38
Well, in a lot of ways, we did have video teleconferencing that we were able to leverage, much like what we're doing today with video conferencing. But it was such a an interesting experience, my leader at that time came into my office and just one day out of the blue and said, Hey, I'd like for you to go virtual, we're going to cut your workspace, the physical space in the office in half. And why don't you go ahead and implement this virtual concept, which again, sort of in the mid 90s, was not very common, not really heard of. And there was an advertising firm in Santa Monica, California, Shai day, and they had started to implement this virtual office concept. And so we went down there and visited with them and got to see what they were doing and trying to help people stay connected, stay engaged, and how they really set up what was shared space, and the different techniques that were used when people did come into a shared physical office space. And then, of course, how you manage people when they are all working independently or working remotely. So we picked up some, you know, really interesting ideas from them. And sure enough, we, our space was cut in half, and we started the virtual office. And
Jeff Hrusko:
4:20
it's kind of like that movie office space. The poor guy keeps getting moved from cubicle then to the copy room, and then I think eventually ends up in the broom closet. Yeah.
Howard Lewis:
4:34
Right. Well, ours wasn't quite that bad. But yeah, it's the type of situation where you're sort of at that time the company was expanding rapidly, and they just simply needed more space for call center and claims operations, things of that nature. And so as the training and development function, you know, we got volunteered to reduce our space But it really worked out? Well. You know, one of the things that really was clear for me at that time was how we were working on a project basis, you know, so clear deliverables, clear deadlines, you know, you knew what you had to do. And at that point, it was like, Well, does it really matter if they work here or there? Or was it more about how do you produce a quality deliverable against a deadline. And so that really positioned us well to implement the a virtual office and yet still hold people accountable for what they had to produce?
Jeff Hrusko:
5:49
That's the bottom line, isn't it? If you can produce things at the same pace, it doesn't matter if you're home or in an office. So what are some lessons you've learned over the years about keeping people engaged when they're virtual?
Howard Lewis:
6:03
I think it starts with clear expectations. This is, who we are, what we do what we're responsible to produce, and the people that we serve or support, you know, whether that's internal customers, or external customers or clients, but really being clear about expectations, and that with those expectations, then you have clear development timelines, or project timelines, and that with good milestones, then we're able to have a frequent check in points to make sure that people were moving down the path, you know, in the most efficient and effective way possible. But also, if they run into obstacles, barriers, or start to drift off the optimal path, then it's easier to push them back in and stay on that high productivity basis.
Jeff Hrusko:
7:12
I have definitely gained an appreciation for video. I mean, I have worked from home on occasion, maybe once a week or a couple times a month. And meetings, I would just dial into bond. In this experience, I really look forward to seeing everybody in a zoom call or WebEx and faces. Like when you're in isolation, there's something beautiful about just seeing other people, what do you think
Howard Lewis:
7:42
That does make a big difference. And while even back in the 90s, as I mentioned, we had that video conferencing capability. And that really did make a difference that enabled us at that time to connect directly across the United States where we had team members in different regions. And so that video getting together, it did bring that level of you know, being much more personal and more connected in that way. And there are real people working on real projects. And it gave us a time to not only focus on the business, but to connect socially and connect as a team. And we would then and now we see it even more so that every opportunity that I joined a video conference, I come away with it going, you know, that actually was kind of nice. So it was nice to see that person. And I just felt a greater connection with people through video. So definitely agree with you there that it's good. Even though you know, sometimes it feels uncomfortable. It's a little extra, you know, you might have to comb your hair or something. But
Jeff Hrusko:
9:11
my closet is actually within arm's reach. So by the zoom meeting, I just, exactly,
Howard Lewis:
9:17
exactly and, and but at the same time, it just it really is surprising to have that connection.
Jeff Hrusko:
9:26
You when you think about your work day, and I know when I schedule a project, I schedule about six hours of work day on average, you know, sometimes it's more sometimes it's less, because when you think about the office, about 10 to 20% of it is chatting with colleagues, with people you see in the lunchroom, how are you doing? How are the kids what's new, and and in my experience, I mean that kind of, for lack of a better word small talk is hugely important and actually enhances people's performance and their deliverables. I mean, I think a good six hours working is more productive than 12 hours of staring at a computer and not having interaction
Howard Lewis:
10:22
of Absolutely. And you could even connect it with the human resource studies and data and employee satisfaction surveys, that connection with other people that they enjoy working with their teammates, colleagues with the organization itself, that always gets very highly ranked. And I think it it is important, I mean, we are humans, we do have that desire to have good social connection, and people and joy, working with the people that they enjoy working with. And that, in turn drives productivity.
Jeff Hrusko:
11:07
Of course, on the other end of that are unfocused meetings that are a time suck, and go nowhere.
Howard Lewis:
11:15
Yes. Well, right, exactly. And, you know, that's gonna happen, whether we're not together working independently, whether we're doing it via phone or email or servers, that that are, you know, the sort of negative aspect is always there and needs to be managed carefully. And, right, exactly. But you know, imagine just trying to work in a complete vacuum, here's your document, or here's this response, and it just doesn't quite have the same power, as when we're connected as people with each other.
Jeff Hrusko:
11:58
Yeah, it's basic meeting etiquette. But it doesn't hurt to be reminded of that. I've done quite a few job aids over the years, and not just setting an agenda. I asked the question. Why are we meeting? What do we hope to gain from this meeting? Just clearly lay it out. And at the start of the meeting, just ask everybody is, are we in agreement on this? Are these the issues? Is there something else we should be talking about? And it's fine, I usually reserve the first five minutes of a meeting for the fun human stuff, kind of around Robin? What's new? Sometimes I even ask a trivia question, which some people like and some people hate. But make sure it's some way relevant to what we're talking about?
Howard Lewis:
12:48
Yes, exactly. And so if you do have those desired meeting outcomes, and before, you know, focusing in particular, on time that we're together, as a group or the project level, wherever that might be, is having those desired outcomes. being clear about roles and responsibilities, everyone has been on the same page in terms of staying on track, helping bring people back to a topic, you know, tabling topics, if it's outside of the desired outcomes for that particular meeting, taking good notes, clarifying action items of the things we know about effective meetings, really play in. And now, when we are trying to do that via video conferencing and everybody's remote, then it becomes even more important, because we don't have that time where in a face to face meeting, people get up and then they start clarifying things with each other on the way out the door. Or you could lean over to the cubicle next to you to ask a clarifying question. We don't have that immediacy. Like we do face to face or in a shared workspace, and therefore, having that meeting structure and clarity really uses the time efficiently and make sure that those outcomes are achieved. And at the same time, you know, people have that interaction and then being able to build in some time for that, like you were describing it's whether it's a trivia thing, you know, what's, what's your favorite movie? What movie Have you seen
Jeff Hrusko:
14:42
lately? What embarrassing show Have you binge watch during quarantine?
Howard Lewis:
14:49
Yes. And so that's the, you know, building that in because one of the desired outcomes of every single meeting should be connection, you know, is there even if it's 60 seconds or 90 seconds, what are you doing to connect the team members to connect a, a project team.
Jeff Hrusko:
15:13
So one of the things that took me a while to get used to and get my head around is when I would have design team meetings in the office, we'd all get together in a conference room, and they would be posted notes and a lot of interaction. So trying to do that virtually took me a bit, but then I discovered, a lot of these applications that we use include whiteboards in them. And once you it, there is a learning curve. But I found once you can get into that, it becomes similar, if everybody is looking at the same thing and talking about the same thing and bringing their ideas, you know, you could translate that experience to virtual space,
Howard Lewis:
15:57
that's a great technique in terms of a shared whiteboard space. Sometimes it's fun, just to cut people loose. And with controls, and everybody's writing up on the board at the same time. And by but at the same time, then when you sort of settle in, and then pass the access, if you will pass the pen, then that can sort of help just manage that process, I think a little more efficiently. And then we just need to pay attention to make sure everyone is included and has a voice.
Jeff Hrusko:
16:39
And of course, another kind of funny aspect of video links is you, you're at home, and you can always control what's in the background.
Howard Lewis:
16:51
Sure, you know, the dad come to visit. And I would say to me, it's not that's not a bad thing, it just
Jeff Hrusko:
17:01
remember so many times, especially when VTC was relatively new, but it still happens. And you would have an all hands meeting or big meeting a big conference, and 100 people in the audience. And then you'd have VTC people from different offices. And that always be like two or three, where it's just one guy in a room in Albuquerque, or somewhere that doesn't realize he's on camera. And for some reason those people are showing us big,
Howard Lewis:
17:34
right, the
Jeff Hrusko:
17:35
right center, and you hear the guy like oh, yeah, I'm just doing this thing I have to sit here.
Howard Lewis:
17:42
Exactly.
Jeff Hrusko:
17:50
But what I'm saying is, in a live meeting, you can see or read a lot of nonverbal communication. Sometimes you can see it on people's faces, you know, if they have something that might be pensive, and you can be smart about it, you could do the same thing with video. To more limited degree, but at least you can see, we can see if somebody's nodding off anyway. Yes,
Howard Lewis:
18:15
and that's what we do get the nonverbal communication and the benefit of reading people when we are on video, and that definitely helps significantly. And at the same time, it depends on how many people are attending, if you have 100 people attending, you can't necessarily see everyone even with a gallery view. So it's, we have to look for ways to make sure people were included and to give them voice and that can be as simple as, okay, you know, if you feel that this is optimal direction in which to move then give me a thumbs up and then you can see thumbs up or thumbs down or, you know, raise your hand or lower your hand. There are some mechanical things in video conferencing platforms that we can take advantage of to, again, make sure that everybody's included in in feels that they are a part and they actually are a part of contributing to what everyone's trying to accomplish.
Jeff Hrusko:
19:34
During webinars, not I guess you could also do this during team meetings, but especially for any sort of virtual classroom. Polls, live polling, I think is a great way to get people engaged and also gauge their reactions to things.
Howard Lewis:
19:52
Absolutely. And when we design virtual classroom experiences and I think a lot of it does carry over into To virtual meetings and virtual teams, but that one of the most important things is to drive 100% participation. And even if you think about that back to face to face classrooms, that if you ask an overhead question, what normally happens, there are one or two people that are pretty vocal and will speak up, and then everybody else is kind of comfortable riding their coattails. Whereas if you are looking to drive 100% participation in a physical classroom, you might say something to the effect of take a moment and jot down your top three ideas. And then everybody writes it down. And now I can use a round robin approach or, you know, Snake through the room and have everyone contribute, well, we can carry that into the virtual environment. And then take advantage of the software mechanics, like you mentioned the polling function, or raise your hand or put your three ideas down into the chat area. If you've got a ton of people then use the breakout capability, okay, everybody go out, generate a list of ideas, and then have choose a spokesperson, then we'll reconvene, we've got five people that then share each individual group's contributions. So they're definitely nice mechanical ways to drive participation and make sure everybody's included.
Jeff Hrusko:
21:45
I know, that's something I've definitely employed in large conferences, breaking people up into smaller groups, because it really helps, especially with the people that might be shy, speaking in front of all those people, at least with a group they could interact. And I think, with some of the platforms now I know, zoom, has a team's definitely has it, you can do that you can do the breakout rooms. So do you have any advice as far as selection of platform you should use?
Howard Lewis:
22:17
Well, the good news is that there was a very nice selection now, and that perhaps, you know, 10 years ago or so that one might be significantly stronger than the other, they've all come up to a pretty good level. And, of course, with a pandemic, they even ratcheted up their security measures, which is pretty important, too. But in terms of platforms, you know, though, you've got WebEx you've got zoom, join me. What are some other ones, Jeff, that you can think of? We'll talk about
Jeff Hrusko:
23:01
theirs, cool Hangouts, or whatever they're calling it this week, Google meet. Yeah. And Microsoft Teams I've been using lately.
Howard Lewis:
23:09
Yeah. That's really nice. So they're quite a variety. And what do they all bring? Well, they bring the video capability, chat, polling, raising your hand or thumbs up something of that nature, which, again, just with those capabilities, you can really get people involved and have them be a part of the desired meeting outcomes, accomplishing those. And then if you look at, you know, a platform like Adobe Connect, which allows you to really structure and extend experience and bring in different presentations, Lincoln to activities have chat, and q&a, pods, and a whole variety of things. And particularly from a virtual classroom standpoint, then you've got even more capabilities and the ability to set things up in advance so that there's less work on the part of the facilitator.
Jeff Hrusko:
24:21
Yeah, not to get too much into the weeds on this stuff. I think. From my perspective, the important thing is when selecting a platform do a dry run before you invest fully in it, does it meet your needs? Like you were saying, right now, most of them are pretty comparable, but some are better than others and definitely tested in the environment that you want to do it if some people are on mobile. Then definitely tested on mobile device as well. If you need polling sound that translates you know, it's interesting. We were talking about this a little bit before the show. It's like with each technological leap you sort of have to retool a little bit. And in some ways, it's a little bit of a step back, like, for us kind of old timers, like we developed on CDs at one time. And then we had the leap to online, which then cut back on the amount of colors and the bandwidth that we had. And now, virtually, and mobile raises a lot of channels.
Howard Lewis:
25:25
That's true, especially thinking about that mobile end. And the difference between what you can accomplish in a desktop laptop sort of environment compared to much smaller screen real estate when we're looking at smartphones.
Jeff Hrusko:
25:45
So just going back into the topic at hand, from your experience, what are some of the pitfalls or challenges of a manager? managing a virtual team?
Howard Lewis:
25:58
I think the one that comes to mind first is the idea. It was heard of the bad idea of everything's going fine. I'm sure they're taking care of things, and they're doing great. And okay, yeah, they met this deadline or that deadline. But just assuming that everything's fine. And everybody's, you know, working well, and working efficiently doesn't have any problems. And, and that's really where staying connected with them and having a strategy for staying connected. I think that's probably first and foremost, one of the most important things with working with a virtual team.
Jeff Hrusko:
26:44
At the beginning of my career, I had some I didn't run at the time, but status meetings, where it was like, the old Congress from like, the Soviet Union, like I was everything. Everybody said, Yes, comrade, yes, the wheat is 20 feet high this year. So definitely part of leading any team is creating an environment where it's safe to express problems, that you're rewarded for bringing up an issue early in asking for help.
Howard Lewis:
27:19
But it is and then you have to make good decisions around when you check in that way. So if I'm with the whole team, and I'm like, who's struggling, who has a problem, or who's you know, who's behind, you know, like, I want to raise my hand first, in that situation. And so maybe that's not the best forum to ask that question.
Jeff Hrusko:
27:45
You could always tell there's a problem, especially if there's not video involved. If you hear a lot of typing and messages going back and forth, loop. Loop. It's the meeting underneath the meeting.
Howard Lewis:
28:01
Right? And so there's that you're making good decisions about, you know, what you're asking when you're asking it, how you're asking it, and that at the same time, we have to build a level of trust in our team, so that people can speak up. It's like, Hey, you know, I've been trying to download these files. It's taking forever. Do we have any? Do we have any other alternatives? Or is, has anyone figured out how to do this more efficiently? And that's where the team trust and team collaboration can really pay off.
Jeff Hrusko:
28:45
So to sort of bring it all together, let's kind of review what we said. And perhaps you can give some advice to people that are managing virtual teams. You said, first and foremost, everybody needs to know what is expected of them what their responsibilities are. Is that right?
Howard Lewis:
29:09
Yes. Sort of, in general, we know that having clear metrics, you know, what are we measuring? What are we striving to accomplish? and managing to those metrics is really important. You know, we know about key performance indicators, KPIs, when we know about the effective metrics and expectations and when we communicate that clearly, then people are like, Okay, I got it. I know what I'm here to accomplish. And now provide me with that support and direction to help me succeed in that performance. So I think that yes, that's sort of the overarching part of it and be clear. up front, monitor it and communicate throughout, and then recognize and acknowledge accomplishments at the end. So I think that's really important. And then to think about areas as a virtual team manager, about what am I doing to connect, what am I doing in my communications and have a good cadence with those communications, so that you're not overloading people, but then they're not sitting around wondering what's going on or what they're supposed to do. And then we need to create opportunities to collaborate. So that's a whole, you know, we, we looked at some of the advantages of the web conferencing, and what we can do to drive collaboration through a whiteboard, or other techniques. But there are lots of other ways in which we need to think about and establish good team collaboration. And then, of course, it comes down to that day to day performance coaching.
Jeff Hrusko:
31:13
Yes, and one of my personal philosophies, like with picking the platform is finding something that that sticks, you know, because when you think about any relationship between people, whether it's a boss, and their team, or to individuals, kind of creates its own thing, its own language, and that language develops over time. So the dynamic that works with one team may not work with the other, I learned this early in my career is like, Oh, I thought I had this down, you come in, you do this, this and this, and this, and this, and this happens. But with a different group of people, it doesn't and you have to adapt.
Howard Lewis:
31:55
But that's an excellent point. And it's really agility in that regard. And that being sort of thrown into the virtual world, as we all have been, that it is, you've got to be agile, it's, if that like, just like you said, if it's working, okay, continue, if it's not working, adapt and find a different way. And, you know, I think everybody's doing the very best that they can I look at what's happening in our, you know, k 12 education system in our universities, and, you know, they've been in our work, you know, work environments, as well. But everybody got thrown in the deep end of the swimming pool. And we're all trying to figure it out. And that it is making adjustments, understanding that we're in a very fluid situation at this time. And I think, you know, when I look at the schools and look at the universities, I look at corporate companies, and other organizations, nonprofits, and so forth, they everybody is doing the very best that they can to do as much as they can as quickly as they can. And you've got to be flexible and agile, because the conditions are changing by the day, and that what is happening today might not be what is going to happen tomorrow. And we need to be ready to be adapt. I guess that's the word I'm looking for. We have to be ready to adapt and to adapt quickly.
Jeff Hrusko:
33:51
I have no doubt. And I think you'll agree that what we're going through now will have an impact and ramifications forever. Really. Work won't be the same.
Howard Lewis:
34:03
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And so we're starting to see that I think something you mentioned previously is like, kind of what is the long term? Where do you think we're headed, and that there is the, you know, sort of getting tired of hearing new normal, but it isn't the normal. And that that new normal might be a little look a little different tomorrow, or next week or next year. But the kinds of capabilities that we all have developed in the last few months. And I mean, if you if you really were to look back in what was it around March, I guess that we you know, that lockdown started happening globally, that you know, we're only a few months later and the amount of change that has taken place and organizations, the amount of change has taken place socially, is, it's unbelievable. In the fact that people have adapted and adapted quickly. You know, I don't have data.
Jeff Hrusko:
35:21
Right? It's anecdotal. But it was certainly true for me that the first couple weeks were tough. He didn't have a division in days. But then I found if I woke up at the same time that I usually would go to commute and started working in a certain time it is yes, having a structure, that it helped me immensely.
Howard Lewis:
35:43
Right. So the, the, like, our kids came home from spring break and didn't go back, you know, and that overnight change in our education system across the board, and the overnight change that took place in organizations across the world. If you were to look back, again, it's whether what I was thinking about was, I don't necessarily have data at this time, but I'm not sure that our world has evolved. So quickly, and so much in a six month period, ever. If you look at, you know, the way in which technology sort of shifted, the way in which people work and learn has shifted, I mean, six months, is to completely change, for the most part, the way in which we work and the way in which we are educated. It's just so dramatically different, and it happened in such a compressed period of time. That, you know, frankly, it's amazing that we've been as productive as we have been. And that people really did jump in and take that challenge on, in order to keep things moving forward. And unfortunately, in some cases, you know, like the service industry was hit even harder, you know, organizations, particularly nonprofits that are dependent and work have historically been based on gathering people together, they've been hit really hard. And everyone's rapidly evolving and rapidly changing so that we can keep moving forward, and there will be long term changes that will help us, you know, will help us be more efficient, help us be more productive. And we're going to have to, you know, find that balance to, to continue.
Jeff Hrusko:
38:06
Well, Howard, it's been a pleasure, I want to thank you very much for your time. And, you know, I heard a rumor that you have developed a course just on this topic and engaging with virtual teams. Can you tell people how to find that course? Absolutely.
Howard Lewis:
38:21
So the course that we developed, and again, I just reflecting back over 26 years, and like, what's worked, what hasn't worked. And the course pulled that together to try to share some best practices to help people and support people. It's called effectively managing your virtual team. And it's a practical guide for working remotely. And so perhaps, Jeff, what we could do is, you know, share that link in conjunction with this recording, to make it easy for people to find access to it. But it's a course that contains a number of helpful quick references. And I think could really be a good way to help those that are new to managing virtual teams, and then to also provide some areas to potentially refine for those that have been supporting that kind of work already. And even in putting it together, I was discovering some new things and new experiences that are very recent, to try to pull in. And perhaps we could even open it up to ask people or invite people to share what's working for them as well.
Jeff Hrusko:
39:42
Well, I'll certainly put a link in the show notes, which if you click on the little information bar in the player, you should be able to ask and thank you so much for your time and for listening. And Howard. Thanks again.
Howard Lewis:
39:55
You bet. thank thank you very much. I appreciate the opportunity.
