Cool Cool Cool

undefined:
00:00:31
Welcome to clever club, a podcast about curious conversations and stories intended to make you laugh and learn. I'm your host, Erica. And today I'm elated to be joined by my friend, mark Kendall mark. Hi. Hello. How are you? I'm really good. Thanks for having me. I'm thank you for coming. You. You know, you were one of the first people that I've reached out to where I was like, he's not going to say yes to this, but I need to just, I just am going to ask. I would also say I would absolutely say yes, no. Very cool. Yes. You didn't just say yes. You said he asked him like the most flattering way. You're like, oh, I like listen to it. Like, yeah. I was blown away. I enjoy the podcast. It's really nice. I, you know, I love the variety of guests. You have. I love the vulnerability of the stories like from yourself and the other people. You know, people like share their experiences. You know about like successes and failures. Yeah. You know, I just really, I really appreciate it. Well, I appreciate you. Appreciate it. So this is, this is a huge honor for me to have you in the studio. Typically mark. When I have people on the show that I have mutual friends with and mark and I I'll give a tiny backstory. You were my improv teacher, like. Eight years ago for a hot minute. and so we just kind of, we overlap in the comedy circle a little, but we do have a handful of mutual friends. And so I've reached out to people and I'm like, Hey, I'm recording with market Kendall. You have any crazy stories, any fun facts? Anything that can add to this interview. And the consistent response from everybody. It was a, oh my God. We love mark. But also like you seem to be the most unproblematic human being in the world. Like everyone's like, we don't know actually anything about. Like he is just always nice. Always present. And like, I got no dirt. I got no dirt on you. So, I guess. Are you surprised to hear that? Uh, I don't know. There's definitely, there's definitely dirt out there. I'm. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well maybe. I need to do more. Where reconnaissance work. but I guess like, do you go out of your way to garner a good reputation or is, I mean that, like, I feel like everything people said about you behind your back with lovely. This is what everybody would want people to say about that. If they weren't in the room, you know? Oh yeah, no, I mean, I try to have like positive interactions with folks. Uh, so I try to do that. Yeah. Uh, but beyond that, you know, not really. Just naturally fabulous. I just try, I just try to have positive exchanges with folks. I remember when I was younger. someone said something along the lines of like, you know, you can, you know, make someone's day better or worse. And it's not like I necessarily go into an interaction thinking like I'm going to make the day better or worse, but it's just like, I don't want to make someone's day worse if I can help it. Yeah. Maybe that's in the back of my mind a little bit. Yeah. That, that took root. I think that's a great way. Like I'm just going to not make the world worse as I go out into it. I still do something. But like, yeah, I'm going to try to try to. That's totally fair. do you ever have bad days? Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, definitely a bad days. I think. uh, you know, I, I enjoy doing morning pages. Have you ever done the artist's way? I haven't done the artist's way, but I'm familiar. And I've been here with morning pages. Yeah. So it's like quick description of artist's way. It's this workbook, basically. It's like a 12 week workbook where you do creative exercises and read about creativity just in general. I did it maybe over 10 years at this point. Oh, I thought it was really beneficial. Yeah. One of the aspects of the artist's way is you journal every morning for about like three pages. Okay. And so I don't necessarily do it every day, but I have moments when I do do it a lot. And I found that it's just really helpful just in terms of getting thoughts out and processing feelings and things like that. So that's definitely one of the things that. I like, like to go to, if I'm having like a bad day. And also like, You know, creative when I'm being creative, when I'm being creative with other people that that helps a lot. It helps a lot. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. And. You're coming about being creative with other people. That's such a skill. And I learned throughout my, I had probably like two years where I was like deeply dabbling in improv. And I learned I'm not good at being creative with other people. And I was like, I think I should be doing standup instead because I'm just like, not good at improv because I, uh, I just, I think I'm naturally, literally not good at it cause I'm like too controlling and I just try to fill in gaps, which is the opposite that you're supposed to like, I don't know. so are you naturally really good at being collaborative or did you learn to be better through improv? You know, not, not necessarily. Yeah. I think that, you know, I'm more naturally tend towards something like stand up things like that. And also too. I mean, like, you know, I saw your improv class. You're not bad at improv. Very funny and, you know, I think. The other thing too, like when it comes to doing something that you're doing as a group, no one's ever going to contribute in the exact same way. And so the way I kind of see it is like, all right, there might be some things that. Uh, you know, in the moment you look back. Or you look back and you're like, oh, that didn't help the improv show. But also, it's just like, that's the offer that you made, whatever that is. Yeah. Yeah. So like in a perfect situation, like, like in an idealized version of improv, it's like, whatever you happen to bring is what you bring. And that's great. You. You know, so. All that to say is like, I think I personally. Veer more towards, you know, solo performance, solo, creative projects as well. But I like how I have to maybe more for change in order to collaborate with other people. Yeah. Even if it's just being like an audience member, you know, that makes sense. That makes a lot of sense. So, did you get your start? Well, let me even back up from there, like how did you get into comedy? Yeah. Yeah. Um, in college. Yeah. So, in college I was a film major and, you know, I was really into like, You know, writing and directing and making films. Like I read spike spike. Lee had like these books. Uh, I don't remember these books. He did. So like, But like his first five films. Uh, he had like a companion book that would come out. Sounds familiar. Yeah. And so it had like a journal that he kept, it had the script and he was basically trying to like demystify the filmmaking process. It was sort of like, it was like director's commentary before DVDs and blue Ray were an option. That's awesome. That was like, man, filmmaking is a processing, so cool. And I was getting really into that. So. In college, I'm a film major. And, I wanted to get experienced with equipment. and there was a sketch group on campus and YouTube was maybe just out. Like just like I'm dating myself. Maybe it was like brand new. So this sketch group, it was a video sketch group, but they wouldn't even put their stuff on YouTube. It's like they would shoot stuff. And then at the end of the semester, they'd have a show where they play video sketches for their friends. And that was kind of it. so I was like, oh, great. I'll be a crew member for this. So I like on the weekends, I like hold booms or put up lights and it was great. Okay. Uh, but another part of being in the group is that every week they'd have writers meetings. So there's a writing team and an acting team, and they would read these sketches and the crew would listen to the sketches. And then you give feedback event. It was like a really cool process. This is, this is fun., and then at around that same time at the end of my freshman year, Comedy central had this program. It was start by Chris rock was called the comedy central summer school. And it was an opportunity for writers of color to spend the summer at comedy central in New York. And they would just kind of like rotate you through departments. To expose you to different types of jobs you could have as a writer. And I think it was partly inspired by the fact that like when Chris rock was on us and now. I don't think there were any black writers. So like experience of him getting material on was like much different deal than other people. As I'm sure it was for like a bunch of other groups that weren't like properly represented on the show. Yeah. So that was him and comedy central, trying to like create ways to address that. Yeah. Uh, so, so that was freshman year and I was like, oh, this is cool because it's like, this is an internship that would pay. And, uh, they'd cover my housing, all that kind of stuff. Uh, so I applied and I did not have like prior comedic experience. I'm not like a class clown type or anything like that, but I, I wrote sketches for the first time. And. And sent in an application and I didn't get in, but they left. Like a very nice. It was a complete failure, but I've got a great about it. Because I tried really hard on that application. Beautiful. I didn't get in, but they left a very encouraging email. Like we liked your, we liked your application and we'd love for you to apply again. So I literally, I kept that voicemail in my phone, like the whole year. And occasionally I listened to it, like. You know, they really liked my application. I'm going to. Yeah. So then the next year. The next year. I submit again and, uh, and this time the east coast. Director of development caught me up because he was a Northwestern alum. Okay. I didn't get in the second year either. Did you go to Northwestern? Oh yeah, I did. Yeah. Yeah. Those are the ones about. No, but random. So we went to the same school. That's why he called me up. And so. And, uh, and he's like, yo, I like your stuff or whatever, but it's not really. You're not gonna like get to the next level with this. And he sat on the phone with me. And, when you work in development, you're the person that's kinda like deciding what scripts. You know, go from being scripts to becoming TV shows. So you're like developing it. So this person. Is an expert on reading and understanding. Matches. What's funny, but what's also a fit for comedy central. So he read my samples, which is wild and kind of like walked me through them. And, at the time I thought my samples were great. Cause it's just like, My friends thought they were funny. And he's just like, that's cool, but you need to make a stranger laugh really hard. Yeah. I'm reading the words on the page and I'm like, I really took that to heart. That's a good tip. Yeah. Yeah, it was really great. Tip. And so then I sort of I remember that. And so then I applied to third year and I got in and. Yeah. I was like, oh, fantastic. And so I spent the summer in New York and so you'd rotate through different departments. So you spent time in the development department so that, uh, Northwestern alum, I got to work in his department for a couple of weeks. Uh, and then they had a blog back then. So I got to like be at the blog for a little while and I wrote a blog post for them. I was in there on, off air promotions, so I got to pitch like. Ideas to them, but the CRA. The fun part of the program was I got to spend a week shadowing the writers at the daily show with Jon Stewart. And then I got to spend a week, shadowing the riders at the Colbert report. Wow. What that meant was I wasn't really liking coffee or anything like that. I'd show up, I'd go to all the writer's meetings. And then if I felt like, and I'd pitch a joke or two. And, it was a really eyeopening experience because up until that point, you know, I've been a crew person. I had written stuff, but I'd never been in a room where you're pitching jokes verbally. I'd always like been off in my own dorm room, writing a script to myself and then. Shooting at myself or turning it in. What's different about these TV writers' rooms or at least how they worked. In those rooms is like, you are off on a, on a computer writing stuff, but there are moments when you're pitching concepts, you're pitching jokes. And what I had to learn to get better at was one, like just pitching out loud in a room because I was not a performer. and also, you know, you might write something that reads funny, but can you give someone a line that they then say later that evening out loud to an audience that's in their voice. That's also funny. So it's like a different skill kinda sure. And, um, and so that was a great experience, like learning what that looked like. Uh, and, one thing that was like a really big confidence builder for me. Was at the Colbert report. I pitched a joke in a version of that Roundup on the show. So like Cole bear said like a joke that like started as my idea. And I was like, oh my gosh. And all the writers were very kind and encouraging like, oh, good job. You know? And, you know, I really dug the vibe of the Colbert report writer's room. And what I found out was that like a lot of them were improvisers from Chicago. And I was going to college in a suburb of Chicago. So a lot of those writers also went to the school that I had gone to. And they're like you should, when you go back to school, Try some improv, try some standup. Those are the things that will help you pitch. So, because what I was observing was like, You know, you go into the office each day with these writers, they'd pitched these brilliant jokes and then they would then go to the clubs at night and then do their own materials. So I started to follow them doing that. I'm like, oh, okay. This makes sense. They're not just writers. They're brilliant performers in their own. Right. Nearly all of them, even if they weren't like performers, they had some kind of performance experience. So I'm like, okay, this is something I, if I want to write, this is something that I need to learn, how to do. If I want to write in these kinds of spaces. And so, uh, my roommate during that summer, who was also part of the program, He was already a standup. So he was like going out each night. So I started following him and I went up and did my first stand-up open mic. It was like in the basement of this taco spot. And it didn't go good, but it's just like, what I found was like, oh, like speaking in front of people that doesn't really make me nervous. I didn't do that. Gray eye. You know, I was fine. So I'm like, oh, okay. I can do this. And I think also a certain level of pressure was removed. 'cause I'm like, I'm not trying to be a standup. I'm just trying to do this. To get better at writing. So there was like a layer removed, whereas it, maybe it would be a lot different if my whole life I'm like, oh gosh, I want to be like Richard Pryor, Steve Martin. And I got to make this work you're bad for a really long time, you know? So it's like, I can see how that could maybe. Be a tougher thing, but, but to me, I'm just like, I'm just trying to learn, write jokes, you know? Yeah. So there was a lot that was removed from that. and so then when I came back, To school for my senior year, I started going to open mics for stand up on occasion. I took my first improv class while also still, you know, riding and making stuff. So. That's kind of how comedy kind of came about. And I think the other thing too was, you know, Being in film school at the time you watch a lot of student films and. At least when I was in film school. What I appreciated about the comedy comedy. Uh, once it was like, if something was meant to be funny, like the audience would either laugh or they wouldn't. Yeah, but for other films, you know, you're trying to make like a historical drama, but on like a $250 budget, it was kind of hard to determine, like, I don't know, like your dorm room doesn't look like 1920s, France, you know, like. So. So if that makes any sense. So what I appreciate about comedy was that like, oh, I like it where it's like, you try to make the audience have a certain reaction. And they either do what they don't. And then you kind of go back to the drawing board. If you didn't get what you wanted. Um, and so that's the long story. I love that story. That's super, super cool. Yeah. are there any people that were in those writer rooms that have now gone on to have big kind of individual careers? Yeah. Yeah. So like, Uh, at the daily show when I was there, it was like, why it's an X, like first week or something like that. Are you like just got there. And so he went on to be like a great correspondent and then did a bunch of stuff. Uh, John Oliver was a correspondent at the time. And as well as in the writer's room. And I remember like the first or second day at the daily show, there was like one of those like office basketball goals. And like, he was just very nice. Like I remember like, he's like, I forget how it started because I want to play horse or something like that. And like we played horse on the thing and I lost and I was going to pay him 10 bucks. Like I can't take your money. That's true. They shouldn't be taking my money. Um, Oh, and, also during the program, we'd go to like comedy central events too. So comedy central had like a lot of standup shows around town. So it was, uh, so that summer I saw Bo Burnham when he liked just moved to New York, he was maybe like 19 at the time. Oh my God. He may have still been like in school or something. Yeah. I saw Hannibal Burris before I'd seen them on TV. I think maybe before each shown up on TV. Amy Schumer was still like very, very new. So like, you'd go see these people at the show and then they'd still just be hanging out after the show. And you would just be talking to them. So I saw, like I saw Mike Birbiglia for the first time that summer. Just a bunch of people. Yeah. It was really, it was really nice. Yeah. I feel like when I hear stories like this. It's like we more cutthroat and I love that. You're like, oh, I had a lovely experience and everybody was really uplifting and kind yeah. I feel like that's the perfect experience for you to have, because that's how you show up in these rooms now with other people. Yeah. Yeah. And I will also say too, not that it wasn't a lovely experience, but I think that some things can feel rough. So it's like I did also pitch jokes that did not go well. Sure. And like you might get a look. And so like, depending on what your emotional state is on that date, maybe that might make you feel really bad or it's just like, people will give you very direct, honest feedback. Like this sucks. And maybe they raise their voice or something like that. And it's not like nothing scary, but it's like, depending on the day or your temperament. That might throw you off or whatever. So. Uh, but that said, I mean, these were shows that were operating at like a really high level, so they didn't really have that kind of energy. Like something that would get said in the daily show, I think was like best idea wins. Meaning like they didn't care if the intern had the idea or John Stewart had the idea or whoever. Right. It's just like they're trying to create an environment so that the best idea gets heard. So that can wind up on the show cause that's good for the show. And so. There's that too, because I mean, not all creative spaces are like that. Some of them. Much more toxic. Yeah. It's just for that particular program. I didn't encounter much of that. Yeah. That's wonderful. Yeah. Oh, I love that. And I'm so glad you got finally got accepted. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So, okay. So you have this experience, you graduate from college. I know there were probably a couple of years in between that and when I met you as an improv teacher, so how did you get to. Let's connect the dots for me between there and now, because I've seen you perform at the Alliance and your own solo show, which I want to circle back to you. I mean, you've done some awesome shit. so yeah, like how, how has all this unfolded for you? So I came back to Atlanta and originally I was like, oh, I'm only going to be in, oh, sorry. Are you originally from Atlanta? Yes, I am. Gotcha. Okay. So. So I came back to Atlanta after college, Atlanta is where I'm from. And originally I thought like, oh, because all my friends from college were mostly going to the coast, like New York or LA, because that's where most of the filmmaking is happening. But I came back to Atlanta and I was very briefly for like a hot second. I was one of the casting assistants at Tyler Perry studios. So it was back when they were filming a meet the Browns and how's the pain. And that was a really great learning experience. It was just a very short period of time. But in that short period of time, I got to see a lot. So the casting department that I was at, they were casting for two shows at the same time. So Tyler Perry, he kinda like pioneered this, uh, style of shooting. Sitcoms where, you know, maybe back in the day, you'd shoot like a sit-com a week. And then each season you'd have like 22 or 24 episodes at a certain it's not as common to do that anymore, but yeah, but that's kinda like what it was like, what. Tyler Perry did with his studio. He would shoot like four episodes a week and shoot a bunch, uh, over the course of like three or four months. And then you'd have like 80 episodes of TV. And just have like much more. Uh, and he was just doing it for much cheaper. So what that meant for the casting department is rather than casting for like, I don't know, like an episode of TV a week, you would cast for like eight episodes of TV a week. So then you're seeing that many more auditions. Yeah. Was that efficient or overwhelming? I was just an assistant. I'm sure it was overwhelming for some people. But I don't know if my job necessarily changed that much. It's not like I was like doing eight times as much, if that makes sense. Okay. So I'm sure that fell on someone. It just didn't fell on me. Yeah, but. But what I. Uh, what I got to take away from that was, you know, Just how often, like you would see, or this is just my experience, but it's like, I'd see auditions for Rome and I'd have my favorites. Like, oh, that person was clearly the best. They wouldn't necessarily get the wrong. You know, like it was super interesting, like, or, you know, someone might not get a role for something, but they made a great impression. Uh, and so then they get brought back into site. Oh, okay. Just worry about what you can kind of control. And just try and go and have a good audition. you see like interesting choices, things that are maybe more boring choices. So like you see 20 people. Do the same line. And so you see how many people make the same choice versus the people that do a little something different. oh, that was really cool. And then I met some writers of the show at the time, some of the folk, some of those folks I'm still in touch with. And so. Yeah, it was a good learning experience. it definitely wasn't what, I don't know what I was expecting. Yeah. But, but like, it, wasn't what I was expecting, you know, like, But looking back on it, those, those are the positive things that I took out of it. Okay. But then after that, that ended. And I wanted to make sure that I continued to work the performance muscles. Uh, in addition to riding. And so, after that I became, the former artistic director at dad's garage. His name's Kevin Gleason. I was his intern. So, basically what that means. I go on a couple of times a week. And like, you know, help Tim with stuff like admin stuff. It looks good. Yeah. And then they gave me free classes and, um, and that was really nice. Cause it's just like, that helped me. Be able to take improv classes are expensive. And Amber Nash. She was the education director at the time. And I remember, I was like, Hey Amber, you know, I get free classes. Y'all have four levels. Can I just take all four of them at once and she's just like, yeah. And so, so, so I had, you know, extra evening time on my hands. So I would just take all the classes at once. And I did that like maybe a couple of times throughout my internship. Wow. and slowly over time, like, Uh, you know, intern, I would take classes at one place. I start performing someplace else. And so over time, like I accumulated. like stage time. And reps through that. Cause I didn't really study acting in college. Not, not really. I mean, And maybe took, like a couple acting classes, but I wasn't like an acting. major and I think sometimes maybe felt insecure, not insecure, but I didn't feel like a trained actor because I had friends that were like, that was their craft. And I saw how seriously they took it. in college and like what that looked like, and I'm like that Amy. So. And so, I was trying to like catch up isn't the right word, but I was like, all right, I've seen how seriously. My friends take acting. I want to try to apply that to like my improv stuff into this. Comedy stuff that I'm going to do. And so, yeah. I got to perform more at dad's garage. and something that is unique about how that theater works earliest. It was when I was there. I'm not there currently, but back when I was performing there. they're an improv theater. So they put on improvised comedy shows. They're also a theater company. So they have like a scripted. Season of theater that they do each year as well. And what was unique about the way they did theater was they had the improvisers write most of the scripts. And so, if you're a playwright, at least like in Atlanta, you might write a play, but getting a theater to produce your work can be a challenge. if you don't have a relationship with that theater, you know, and even if you do it can just be tough. Yeah. Uh, so, what dad's garage allowed for war? Uh, newer playwrights. Maybe you've never had anything produced, but you could get something produced, uh, there. So, I've been there for a little while and I pitched a solo show. called the magic Negro and other blackness, and it was a satirical one person sketch show, looking at the magic Negro archetype. It pops up in American culture. Uh, and, and so, yeah, so I got to do that and then I was like teaching improv and then touring what that touring, what that solo show. So that's the solution I mentioned earlier. That's how that came to be. Okay. That's interesting. I didn't realize that it had started at dad's. That's awesome. I have a funny story. Then I think of, and bring up with a friend of mine that I saw your show when actually fairly regularly. So this show that mark reference, he did at the Alliance theater, and I took a good friend of mine and we were like, We should get stoned first. Do you, are you cool with talking about weed? Okay. Um, first thing is really funny. It's cause. Like funny side story. You're not the only person that's come to see the show really. a weird combination. my favorite combination. Um, so. We were, we got there a little early. Whereas sitting in the parking garage at the Alliance. And I had brought like my weed, my grinder. And like literally a bowl and this friend that I was with, he. Matt is married and didn't get out much. And, uh, he's like my fun buddy. And I'm like, do you want to hit this? And he was like, I mean, yeah, Um, and so I hit the ball. I had him the wall, we're passing it back and forth. We're just like, hotboxing my little, whatever car I drove at the time. just giggling, having a wonderful time. And then he had one of those stone thoughts of like, you know, how, when you hit a bull, you like inhale. Look, I wonder what happens if you exhale. And so he exhaled and all of this weed, it just goes. my car. Loved the magic track. I mean, I, I sold that car and there were definitely weed bits everywhere. I. It was like a bomb went off. And I just looked at him and I'm like, bro. We just like, could not stop. And then I was like, well, I guess that's that. Go keep it, keep it going. And then we came in and watched your show and. Aye. Um, it was great. Start to finish. Of course. I think you're hilarious. but there's this one segment. That I, I literally referenced this regular. But it's the part about Marta? Oh yeah. One of the funniest things I've ever seen in my life. I don't know if it's cause I'm in Atlantan. Lifelong and I just like, get it, but will you tell me about the inspiration for that and just kind of tell people what I'm referring to you. Sure. Sure. Yeah. So I have a, a bit that started from that show. Called, you know, if Marta expanded a cop county. So in Atlanta, Marta is our public transportation system. there's a train system. but it's fairly limited. It's more limited than it should be for a city of Atlanta size. And then that contributes a lot to traffic and a lot of other byproducts of not having enough public transportation and just people having the way to get to where they need to go. Yeah. Cobb county is a suburb of Atlanta and they have not allowed Marta to expand to the suburb in the way that it should at this point. And for many years, a big narrative of why, You know, public transportation would not expand to that part of town. Is because, oh, we don't want public transportation to come here because we don't want crime to come here. Crime being like another word for black people basically. Yep. Have you look at the history of traffic, public transportation streets in Atlanta, the way that it's carved up divided. Yeah. In general roads. The ground you walk on. Yeah. Like a lot of the way that it's been, you know, manufactured is due to, you know, racism and a fear of societies and neighborhoods mixing in one way or another. And this narrative of public transportation. Bringing crime is a thread that you even will still hear two days really. It's wild. Yeah. But, I mean, but if you think about what it would actually take for someone to take tra public transportation, To steal something that you value in your home, like a television set or a sofa. And then get back onto a bus and then a train is wild, you know? Uh, so that's kind of what the bit is about. I take on the perspective of a, like a feat, a robber, whoever I'm talking to my boys. And I'm like, yo Cobb county just opened the flood gates. You know, Expanded Marta to Cobb county. So we're going to Rob Cobb county night. We're bringing black crime to Cobb county. You know, and so I take like a very detailed look of what it would actually take. And as I'm breaking it down to you, you're like, wait, this is impossible. This doesn't make any sense. And so that's kinda what that, that bits about. It's so, so, so good. Oh, Uh, they just, or was it an April fool's joke? Did Kemp just approve funding to expand Marta? Or was that an April fool's joke? Do you know? Oh, well, I do know that there are a diff additional Marta stops being added. But I don't know if it's necessarily being expanded to those spots. So I'm not, I guess the short, short way of saying is I'm not sure. Exactly. Okay. I'll have to do a little research and. Yeah, I will leave that in the show notes, the shore. Uh, I, uh, every time Marta comes up, I'm always. Because people naturally they're like, oh, crime. Like you bring up this part of like bringing a baby grand piano on the Martin buses. No one's going to do that. That's not how this works. Yeah. so I guess you've done. And continue to do a really nice job of infusing, a kind of social awareness and politics into your comedy. And that's brought you to kind of where you're at now and the podcasts that you have. Sure. So, will you tell us a little bit about how you continue doing that? Absolutely. Well, you know, going back to that experience at comedy central. And New York that I had, you know, Tom Purcell, who is the head writer of the Colbert report at the time, he was the person that would be reading a lot of the writing that I was just doing when I was there for that week. And something that I wasn't good at at the time, but he really pushed was having a very strong point of view and writing something that you care about. And that like, you know what you care about subconsciously, but you may not necessarily know what you have a point of view on. Cause you just think about it every day. And so for me, that experience was helpful in starting to develop, like what, what are the things that I do care about? What. do I have a point of view on, and, and also being, you know, with the Colbert report and the daily show, a lot of it is simply like drawing inspiration from current events, broader things that are happening. I think another way to look at is like, you know, what's happening in your own neighborhoods in your own hometown, wherever that may be, you know? and so. using the martyr pieces as an example about how that kind of led to what I'm doing now. So, you know, that was part of a show that I toured for a number of years. Uh, and, bill Worley, he's an improviser in town. Uh, also a really talented filmmaker and a quick sidebar. So I've known bill for over 10 years at this point. I mean, and I've been saying that for a couple of years, However many years that is. Um, but, uh, we worked on a project together. It was a show we did. It was me bill Worley and John Mangan. Who's another great actor in town. And John Megan had this idea. That we both kind of talked about called like magic and bird. Who's like, what if we did. A live stage adaptation of the rivalry between magic Johnson and Larry Bird. It was very, very silly and very ridiculous. And, neither one of us looked like magic Johnson or Larry Bird, but it was very fun. So we like had the jerseys and we're doing like this live show and it was just this bonkers bonkers show that would also have like little documentary snippets throughout the bill shot. And we also did a sketch for it and I just really enjoyed the experience. Of working with bill and I was like, yo, this was a great experience. Would you want to shoot something else with me? It's like, yeah. And so I had the sketches, you know, from my solo show. So we shot the Marta piece. and then like two weeks later, the world shut down. Yeah. Yeah. So like I wasn't performing or anything like that. And you know, that's most of what I've been doing, I've been going out every night. Uh, you know, teach improv to perform someplace, doing something. And so we were just kind of sitting on this sketch for months. but then after a while, we're like, I think we should just kind of put it out because it's like some of the things that. It brings up a related to conversations that were being had at the time around like, you know, race equity, you know, all these kinds of things. Right. Uh, and then that did well. it resonated with folks. And what I kind of learned from that experience was like, oh, you know, a point of view can be about something very specific. To you. So like, you know, this very like niche issue in Atlanta, but what would happen is because I was so specific with it. When I talk to people in other. cities or I've even been to Canada and done this bit. It's like people all over the country, unfortunately have some version of what's happening in martyr where people don't want. Uh, group to be in a certain space. You know, so they're doing things to keep people out. Yeah. and so that resonated with folks and, you know, again, working with bill was fantastic. So we kind of started putting out. Safely. Like these solo sketches that I had, because we were able to either shoot like outdoors or like socially distance and. It got momentum. And we were eventually approached by some folks to make, Videos around voting. Fair districting, all these different things. So we're like, oh, people are asking us to, they want to pay us to do this. So we formed a production company. Awesome. And so that production company is called. Cool, cool productions. And so we've taken on, clients like new Georgia project and fair count. We've worked with adult swim. you know, we're working with United way of greater Atlanta right now for a certain project. And what we found is it's like the things that bill and I just kind of like naturally tend towards are things like civic engagement, community building. These are the things that we just like anyway. We like talking about Atlanta, right. and so the production company uses comedy as a way to discuss these topics. Something that we found was, you know, if you talked to someone about like boating, let's say. Uh, it can be rough. You know what I mean? Cause it's like, especially being at a place like Georgia during an election season. You find yourself being inundated, all types of media, phone, call, texts, mail knocks on doors, all that kind of stuff. And it can be a lot, even if those things are coming from a great place. But what we found is with, uh, comedy specifically comedy that isn't attempting to incite joy in some way. That makes you more likely to take some form of an action. You know, there's also really important comedy being done this like more satirical or whatever. Yeah. This also really important. I think. Necessary for like a dialogue. Sure. But it's just like, that may not necessarily make you take an action. So it's like a slightly different thing to use a form of comedy that incites some form of like joy specifically. And those are also really useful tools against like misinformation or just like being depressed about a topic. And so for these organizations that we're working with, A lot of times they may not necessarily use comedy all the time. Some of them did, but. But they may not necessarily use comedy all the time. And what they found was like, oh, when we have like this dense, complicated, new information that we're trying to get to our audiences, What they bought when they work with us, it's like, oh, well, because we use comedy. It's more surprising. It's more engaging. And a lot of times, if you, here's something new for the first time, it can be challenging. You. Like I know in my experience, I hear something new that runs counter to what I already know. I'm more likely to like, knock it down. Sure. But if it's something that's making me laugh, as I'm hearing it, I might be like, oh, that's kinda interesting. I'm thinking about that. And you're more likely to, you know, think about that topic over time. And maybe I might be more likely to change my mind. As opposed to like holding tighter to what I already think to be true. and so that's what we've found. And so we've gotten a chance to do like a lot of really cool projects because of that. one of them. Uh, is our podcast we have in collaboration. With w a B E a, which is called what's good Atlanta. And so as a podcast, I cohost with the great comedian data, Purdue, not the politician, the community. Yeah. And we take, we take, you know, positive uplifting stories in and around Atlanta. And we kind of just talk about what's good. Literally it's a, it's a very short 10 or 11 minute podcasts. Bill will also do person on the street interviews with folks where he'll literally go to like Piedmont park or wherever he's at. And ask people like, Hey, what's good. and so, yeah, so that's kind of how that, that, that partnership came to be. That's so awesome. Do you enjoy podcasting? I do it's it's, uh, it's definitely like a skill like, so, bill and I, we had a podcast with iHeart media for awhile called ridiculous news. And that was a great learning experience. I enjoyed that too. I enjoyed that very much. Thanks. Thank you. But what I learned is it's like I had to learn, I had to learn a bunch of things. I mean, like, it was, there's definitely like a learning curve. I think for me when I first started podcasting, I got, so self-conscious about just saying. The wrong thing. And I think what has helped since then is knowing like, I'm going to say the wrong things sometimes. Cause I'm like an imperfect person. Sure. I might say something that I'm embarrassed by later. but, uh, I've learned to kind of let that go a little bit more. because being in my head about that doesn't really help me. Okay. Uh, and then also just working with folks that I think are great, like David and bill and our producer. Scotty. You know, All that helps, you know, So. Uh, so, so it is something that I do enjoy. Yeah, but it was also very much like a learning curve for sure. Yeah. I can obviously relate to that learning curve. Yeah. But I think rewarding. Yeah. And it's leading you to tonight. You're doing a live show. I have this podcast. Yes. Did you ever do anything live with ridiculous news? Will this be your first foray into live podcasts? So for ridiculous thing for a friend. Yeah. So for ridiculous news, we never did a live thing. And with WBE, I think, cause it's a little bit more locally focused, like WBE they're out in the community a little bit more. So the, and because David and I are both lie performers, it kinda makes it a little bit more organic for us to do live stuff. So for example, last week we did our first live episode. There was four or four day. So we were at 4 0 4 day and we did a live episode. We talked to Tori who is one of the founders of Atlanta influences everything. It was a really nice time. And so, with this show, this tonight, I'm very excited about it. So. it's going to be part comedy variety show part, David and I like. hopping on Mike's to record our podcast as well. She's going to be a little bit of everything. It truly is like an experiment. Uh, and it came about, because, I do work with this organization called the center for artistic activism. So I was a fellow of their as last year. And occasionally I'll I'll help facilitate workshops with them or collaborate on different projects. Uh, and they provided some funding to basically carry out a civic experiment, being like, Hey, how can you, increase excitement around voting in a time when people are not. You know, and so my pitch was, it's just like, all right, well, I'm going to put on this variety show. I'm going to give out free donuts. I'm going to give out thank you cards that I've written. And I'm going to bring folks together and, we're going to have standup comics. When I have poets, but in the middle. we're going to talk about civic engagement. So we've invited and say, Ooh, fought, who is a brilliant mind. She, used to run new Georgia project. Does all kinds of really cool voting work around the world. and you know, the goal for tonight. I don't know what we're going to talk about, but the goal ideally is that we talk about, you know, how she finds joy in her work, how she finds joy in voting. Yeah. And then we're also interviewing a former guest of yours actually saw I was listening to you. Podcast. Uh, research, uh, Alex, the Atlanta magnet. Yeah. Need royalty. Yeah. So, so listening to your interview was amazing. It. I mean, it was a great interview, but, and so what was funny was, we talked about him on the podcast once. And we're like, oh, it'd be cool to talk to him. And then I found like, oh, Eric has talked to Alex before and he I've lived next door to him for 16 years. Yeah. And. What's great about the work that Alex does. Picking up the nails and debris from the road. It's like, isn't it. It's like just another form of civic engagement. You know, And so what I'm curious to see is like, you know, talking about voting directly, but also talking about other forms of civic engagement and just how there's a lot of different entry points. And just from two completely different people. Um, and so, yeah. Yeah. And so. That's kind of cool. So it's really just kind of like an experiment in the center of artistic activism. They're like, it's an experiment, meaning like it can be a success or a failure, so don't be afraid to fail with it. I'm trying to remember that because I think a lot of times. I'm going to produce a live show or whatever. Um, Hosting something or making a video. I'm like, I cling tight to it being like, it's gotta be good success. And what I'm trying to remind myself for this is like, you know, it's okay if it's not. And. I don't think it was going to be a good time. It's. Not that, but it's more so just allowing myself to just experiment with it. and being like, all right. So like we're trying to mush these things together. If at some point it gets Rocky learn from that, because then I can do another one. It's something like. And so that's kind of like the, the. The, the attitude. Yeah, I'm trying to take into this evening. I think it's wonderful because I think for me, I'm such a perfectionist. And when it comes to creative endeavors, those two things don't necessarily mix because you have to just put it out there. And kind of see what happens. Yeah. I mean, that's just the best attitude to have of, you know, we're going to learn from this one way or another, and I think defining success and failure for yourself to you as, you know, Like just a individual thing. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. I appreciate it. Uh, like a goal for mine like this just in general, creatively has been to try to like, just put more out there in general. Like, I think that there are seasons when like I'm doing more or I'm doing less. And I was just kinda like, let me say yes to a few more shows that normally I may or may not normally do. So I perform with people that I haven't performed with before. Let me do, let me apply to some things that like I wouldn't normally apply to just for the sake of doing it, you know? So I've been trying to do more of that, knowing that is not going to be perfect each time. But I feel like when you're putting that energy out there as is, I wanted more of that feeling. Um, being like, oh, what about done? You know, Yeah, I like that a lot. And that was one of my favorite takeaways from doing improv with like driving home after an improv class and like analyzing what I did, what I would've done differently. And it's like these little quick kind of forays into being vulnerable and trying new things with kind of a low bar of risk at the end of the day. May I have a quick question for you. If that's. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So like when, when, when you're you mentioned being a perfectionist. Like, I, I feel like I am as well, like. What are the things that your birthday. Uh, the 15th of September. Oh, you're a Virgo. sorry. I was like, I already know the answer to this, but let me just. Um, okay. Sorry to interrupt you. What were you asking me? So you mentioned, you mentioned being a perfectionism. I'm curious, like for yourself, like what do you do to. Either balance that out. You know, like w what, what are you. When Matt comes up. That's a wonderful question. so I find that if I do a lot of, kind of legwork in advance and I can use here's the, here's a really good example. This past Sunday night, I hosted a sound bath here at the shop. there's this woman, Natasha riles. Who's a Atlanta woman who is awesome. She just does these amazing sound baths. And I wanted to kind of introduce that to my clients here. but again, I'm very kind of particular about the flow of things. So I literally meditated and I just forced myself to just picture, like, start to finish how that whole experience would go. Um, and then I wrote it all down and then I, uh, in a non meditative state, read through it and just kind of pictured analytically, like how's that going to work? Dah. So I really, I think I go out of my way and maybe it's a little anxiety to you, but to kind of in advance, figure out, oh, that's not going to work or here's the pitfall potential here. so I like to eliminate kind of obvious. Issues or failures that could come with an idea. and then I'm like, okay, I'm, I'm more relaxed and I can show up to this and be kind of open and just let it unfold and things didn't go exactly the way that I had written down in my little list. On Sunday, but they probably want better. Right? Great feedback. And it was a wonderful event. and yeah, so I think I just, I try to get ahead of potential issues from the jump and then just know like, Hey, you've done what you can, as far as that goes, Now you just have to show up and just be present. Wow. I love the, uh, what you mentioned about meditating it, writing it down, reading it. Yeah, I'm going to take that. You should. and I'm sure you know this with your morning pages. It's like, there's something about pen to paper that. Like really just it's that does something in your neuro pathways that a scientist could tell you about, better than I can, but I really do like, feel better. Just kind of physically getting it out. so yeah, that's a very, very important part of my creative process. Yeah. That's really helpful. To hear that. Yeah. I feel freedom to freedom. Sure. I remember what I was going to ask you before. So what you referenced COVID are you, is this your main source of income? Like how did you fare COVID cause as a creative and same for me, like, I didn't work for three months. I had no income for three months. It's scary. so how did you navigate that? How did it impact you? Oh, it changed. I mean, everything went upside down. It's just like, fortunately like certain gigs that I had did move to being virtual, you know? So like, rip creative circus, for example, like that's an example of like a gig I had where I was teaching in person and that moved to virtual. Cool. Fortunately it's like, things like that did happen. And like, because more things were moved, moving virtually more gigs moved. Virtually, which was nice, but it really like shifted a whole bunch. Yeah. Because I mean, before the pandemic, like I mentioned, I was mostly saw myself as like a live performer. And post pandemic, I still perform when I can, but so much more of my time now goes towards things that are in some way related to. you know, building up this production company. Whether it's like trying to plan for a shoot, but also more so just like building relationships with folks that we work with or are in similar fields, like not even necessarily to work with them, but just like to build these relationships. So it's just like the way. Uh, also like I went from being like a night person, you know? Cause it's just like, you just be out all night. To now, like, I'm like, oh man, I think I've been a morning person this whole time. So, so it was like, you know, like, and I can do the late night thing, but I think I'm more naturally like a morning person. So interesting. Like I could probably talk for a while about all the things that that changed, but it was definitely like of like a very big shift. But what, what about Joseph? it's interesting, kind of similar to you. I learned, I took advantage of the downtime. And I did kind of learn about myself in ways that I didn't have the opportunity to when you're just like, You've got your schedule. You're like, I'm going to work on these days. I sleep at these times. I socialize at these times, everything was kind of pre prescribed and I'd been doing things the same way for so long. I. I there wasn't an opportunity to take a step back and assess. Is this in tune with my natural, like inclinations and body rhythms and all of that type of stuff. so kind of like you I'm like, yeah, I looked a little. Go to bed kind of early. I wouldn't call myself a morning person either per se. I just like to sleep. I really, I enjoyed the leisure. but I enjoy an income even more. but there was, Actually, I don't know if you remember this. It was when you were teaching. I broke my finger. Do you remember? I came in for like a giant cats. but that planted the seed of like, I need to have like revenue and income that isn't based solely on me cutting hair or being physically present at work. which kind of for you as a live performer, it's like, okay, there's you gotta diversify. And so COVID kind of really was up. Uh, supercharged, like dip it back into that mindset of like, you got to shake things up. And so that was kind of where I had the idea of, Branch and more into retail. And I started working with this business coach and she's the one that she's like, you have to do this podcast thing. and, uh, uh, podcast had come up a lot of times and like friends had suggested it. And I was like, no, no, no. Like there's other people that are better. And like were at after that, to me. But I, uh, yeah, I think COVID really kind of laid the groundwork for me to become the version of myself that I am now. And I feel very balanced. Um, so I still provide services and take a select number of clients. I've got. Physical retail shop. I've got an online retail shop. I've got the podcast, which makes me $0 yet, but it will. And so, yeah, I think that look, the scary thing is like losing, like your, your, the roof over your head and like that security and safety and getting close to that really kind of forced me to, to reevaluate and kind of renegotiate what I'm doing, where I'm going, what I want. What's important to me. and so I feel very clear and present on that now. That's great. I haven't filed a question about that. So it's like, you know, you mentioned bounce and it's just like, how did you know that you were getting closer to being balanced just with everything. What were some indicators for you? That's a wonderful question. I think so, especially as a woman there and at my age, I came up in the kind of toxic girl boss season of things. Where you're told what balance is and not really invited to assess what it means for you. And what I realized was there's no such thing as actual balance, but for me, it's, Hey, I'm going to go hard this week and then I'm not going to over-schedule myself the next week. so, so if you look at my schedule, it may not look balanced, but for me and my energy levels, it's a net neutral, basically. so just really getting clear with myself and meditation was huge for this to just really. Putting away all the noise and other people's ideas and opinions of what I should be and what I should do. And just, just being clear with my inner voice and what. I need to be happy with myself and content with what I'm creating. And no one to trust that over anything else. And of course I love feedback and constructive criticism. That's super important. but yeah, I think I just got really clear. And so it was, you know, I'm going to say no to this thing that I wouldn't have said no to last year. because I know that it's going to put me out of whack for what my goal is. Uh, so I guess. I got, did that answer your question? It does. I think something that resonates a lot is like, You were talking about one week, may look different from the next, but it balances your energy levels. Yeah. And I think that that resonates a lot. Cause like, you know, sometimes we might travel to shoot something or travel for work. Yeah. And so then it's important then to have like, I'm just processing this for myself. It's like, So then the next week. You know, maybe don't push it. Yeah. Yeah. Just like, cause when you know yourself, you can anticipate what you're going to need. And I was just talking to a friend last night, actually, who travels a ton for work. And he's like having a hard time dating because you know, he'll have just been out of town for a week and coming home and has no groceries. And people are like, do you want to get a drink? Like where do you want to go? What do you want to do? Dah, dah, dah. And it's like, I don't want to answer these questions. Like, if you want to get a drink, say, Hey, meet me at this place at this time. But my bandwidth is like not present right now. And, uh, he's like the priority has to be what pays my bills. Like, you know, and so just knowing, like, don't even try to book a date the night that you just got back in town after a week long term, you're not going to be your best self on that date. You're going to be tired. And if that person doesn't bring their a game, you're gonna be like, what a waste of time. Yeah. Yeah. So I think just figuring out yourself and a lot of people. You know, social media is so toxic and a lot of ways, of course, but you see these people at the end of life and it's not a day in their life. It's a. It's content right. Um, and people were like, oh my God, this is what people are doing. I'm not doing enough. And you compare yourself. And that is that. I stopped doing that. I think that's like the biggest thing. And I was like, it doesn't matter what she's doing. Yeah. Oh, you. That actually brings up another question because you brought something up on a previous episode. You're talking about social media and you were talking about, trying to paraphrase some, something to miss things. We were talking about like, you know, For your work, like there's a certain amount of social media that has to happen. But like you interacting with it in an authentic way. In a way that makes sense can be challenging. And also sounds like you don't care about it a hundred percent, you know, and like, I thought it was so interesting that that resume resonated with me. 'cause when we first started putting out videos, like they were getting views. And so like, we were putting them on different platforms. And at the time we first started doing videos. I was on Facebook and nothing else. So I've never been on Twitter, never been on Instagram, never been on Tik TOK. I'm not had to join these things. And so some of them were pretty cool. I was like, I get it. I get it now with this grant, but it's like you mentioned comparing earlier. Yes. And it was very difficult. You know, not to do that, even if you don't want to be. You're just scrolling and you're like, oh, well, they're here. Um, I'm here. Yeah. So that in itself isn't comparison. Uh, I don't know what the question is other than like, how are you? What works for you? Well, I guess that depends on how you define what works. Yeah. So, uh, I'm still every day, I'm navigating that because I genuinely don't care. so like my Instagram for this podcast. I think I have like 150 followers, but the followers I have are engaged. There's. so it's like, of course there's other podcasts that have 25,000 followers and like their videos are on point and they're clearly paying a production company to create all of this. And I find myself like, I'll just set my phone down and I'm like, oh, you're not doing enough. You're not doing enough. And then I remind myself, you're doing the max that you can. I. Do you all have this? I produce this, I edit this, I published this. and I enjoy that because again, I'm controlling and, uh, it's my creative, uh, Output. And so at this stage of things, I just have to be comfortable where I'm like, I'm doing. As much as I can, and that will evolve as I've watched it evolve in other facets of my career. And that will show up online. But at the end of the day, And I was actually having a conversation about this for the Instagram, for my, my retail shop, which is more popular than the podcast. Uh, but followers don't equal revenue. So there's lots of people where you look at their pages and you're like, oh my God, like, how do they already have 50,000 followers? but you know that person and you're like, oh, they couldn't pay their lease last month. so I think that you just have to know that for me and my values, like I'm very, very pleased with the quality of the content that I'm putting out. I'm doing the best job I can while still learning how to do it. And that's what makes me sleep well at night, not having a certain number of followers. Because that's just like the social media people. That's that's Metta telling me. Yeah, that like, I'm not cool unless I have a lot of followers and I disagree and I think I'm cool without them. Yeah. so I would, of course like to grow at, because I want more visibility for this project. Right. But at the end of the day, if it's not going to pay my mortgage, I don't care. Right, right. Yeah, no, that's super. That's super helpful. Yeah. And I appreciate you sharing. I like to ask people about it cause it's like, We all deal with it as creative. Yeah. Yeah. Cause it's kinda like, it's not as simple being like, oh, I'm going to turn it off a slight, well, you got to gain a little bit. Correct. I was working for other people and like, From what other folks are doing. Yeah. I'm absolutely learning every day because I don't know what, like. The magnet man is actually a great example. I mean, he started that page four months ago and he's got like 25,000 followers. And all he's doing is just being so authentically himself. and he deserves all of this. I mean, he's awesome. However, at least as we're recording this, like that page, doesn't monetize. So like, he's got great engagement. He's got a lot of followers, but again, it doesn't pay his mortgage. It's just truly a creative outlet. So it's like, how do you quantify the value of that number of followers? Right. Likes and comments, right? Right. Yeah. So I don't know, man. It's definitely. If you're listening, please follow me. If you don't mind. And it does nothing to you is like, I don't really, I'm not good at asking for help. I'm not good at asking for stuff. If I can do it alone, I'm going to do it alone, which maybe is like a trauma response to. Things I should talk about in therapy. Uh, but I'm not good at being like, like. I kind of, um, I want to build it and let it come type of thing. So it's like, if you feel, and I wonder if this resonates with you, but like, Hey, I put it all into the sketch. Like I feel good about this. This is solid. This represents me. I'm going to put it out there and just like, see what happens and not worry about people's reaction as much. Um, learning to get much better at that. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I've learned to like, I think, cause I think I, yeah, I think also too, just the way you put comedy out has changed so much, so much now versus like. When I started. So like, for example, like when I started, if you're like a standup comic, you wouldn't put stuff out on the internet because you wouldn't want to burn jokes or like whatever the case. May be, and you would wait until it's light. We'll wait until you get on TV or something like that. But now it's just like, that's flipped. It's just like you got something good. Like put it out there and see. Uh, what happens, you know? And so I become. I think in a positive way. Yeah. Like I'm less concerned. Like when I put something out there, like I'm more like, well, this is interesting to me at this time. I, I want to put it out, so I'm going to put it out. So, which is, which was not necessarily the case. Like when I first started with things and again, I don't think it was bad then, you know, It was just more so like, uh, I was just like, oh, I want to put out some of this quality and that's a good impulse to have, but I think also being okay. I'm putting something out just to put it out. Yeah, that's it. And I know like there's episodes, I've put out where I'm like, was this the best thing I've ever created in my entire life? Like maybe not. but it's, there's still, if somebody has a takeaway and gets a little something from it, then it's worth producing and not everything we see, we do, you can be 110% of ourselves at all times. I mean, that's just. UN UN. Um, reasonable or unrealistic expectation when you're talking about something creative, it's not math where it's like, this is right or wrong. You. There's no, like binary like that. so yeah, creative stuff is just tough and subjective. And, I think you just have to, if you feel that calling to do something creative, you just have to do it and put it out there and, uh, Be like have integrity behind your work. If you feel like it's authentic and a true representation of yourself than a. I mean, I'll sleep sound, you know? Yeah, I love that. Oh, I had another question for you too. How did. How did you get into comedy originally? okay. Great question. I've always been funny. And I don't mean that like a braggy way. Um, You are a funny person. You are what? Yeah, like I know what you mean. You are a funny person. Like, I always, I've never have had a hard time making people laugh. And my dad is hilarious. He's an asshole, but he is hilarious. And I think I grew up in a household where humor was used to diffuse things and to address things. We didn't have a lot of sit down deep, serious family conversations. humor was the vehicle for kind of some important content back to what you were saying about the, you know, civil engagement type of step in. Kind of putting that under the umbrella of comedy. so I think I always grew up. Being shown there was a value in being funny. Um, and of course, making people laugh feels good. Yeah. and so I, uh, never would have thought that I would like. I be like, I be a standup or anything like that. but, uh, was. I think I have like a business coach and I was in my, probably mid twenties, late twenties when I started doing improv. And she was like, this is going to help you with public speaking. Oh, oh, I'm glad you asked me this. I'm like, I've got. I was doing a lot of teaching and educating for my salon work. Um, so I'd be going to other cities and other salons and, you know, it was getting to the point, I think the biggest group of people I spoke in front of us, like maybe a hundred ish people, but for some. Um, and I just got crippling anxiety. Like I didn't like it. Um, Uh, in, in, uh, in that I totally, that totally makes sense. I'm not saying like, how's that possible? But yeah. When I, when I've seen you speak in class elsewhere, it's just like you could, you can man, the room, I. And I'm curious, like where that's from and also want to learn how you got into comedy, but that was also just interesting to you. Yeah. that's bravado. That's fake. and you know, it's funny you remember Ian from Highwire. we have like a post graduation, like, A feedback session. And I remember sitting down with him, we were at some little like Irish pub and he just looked at me and he was like, would. Would it kill you to not play an alpha character? And I was like, and it's never occurred to me to not play an alpha character. I just am. It's a control thing though. You know what I mean? but And people always are surprised to hear that about me because I do when I'm out there, I turn it on and I'm like, everything's fine. Kind of once I get started, But like that lead up to it. I mean, sweaty palms, heart racing, just, I mean, Uncontrollable anxiety. And, uh, so I, it was suggested that I take up improv because it would help me. I mean, I would like rehearse a phone call before I make it type of anxiety. And improv. There's no time to be anxious. Like it really helps you to work through that. And I a. Like the me on the other side of having taken up, like pretty intensive, I mean, to look pretty intense years of improv. Um, education. oh my God. I mean, it's so much better and I still will get anxious from time to time, but nothing like it was before, but it was a hundred percent of fake it till you make it like bravado thing. Like. Yeah. So got into comedy largely just from the public speaking aspect. Yeah. I'm curious, you know, you doing it for two years. Was there something, did you, were there other things too that had you stick with? And I suppose, you know, cause. Um, in some respects, maybe you could have taken a class, gotten wish needed. Yeah. I really enjoyed, so. Especially as a woman in your late twenties, mid to late twenties. that's when people are starting to get married, starting to have babies and starting to get boring, and I didn't want to do any of that. And so I noticed, you know, my social circle kind of fluctuating and I'm like, you know, I want to do, uh, some, some stuff for me. and I, uh, really enjoyed it. I loved the people that I met. I, uh, have never dated so much in my life. I was so popular. I'm like, oh my God. It's like a really nice little pool to meet real people in real life. Right. and I liked the social aspect of it. And I enjoyed knowing like once a week for two hours, I'm going to be vulnerable and silly and have fun and just play with other people who, uh, Maybe I have nothing in common with. but I loved the, uh, like. All of the labels that we all have prescribed to ourselves. I feel like don't, maybe don't isn't is a stretch, but like, I feel like you leave a lot about it at the door and you can really pretend and play around with being anybody as long as they're not a beta. Um, So. Yeah, I just, I just like really enjoyed it. uh, but it's, I. I guess as the people that I met along the way, and the people that I'm still friends with to this day and really appreciate, Having experienced knowing in my life. That's cool. And so you did improv, did you stand up as well? I did not do stand out. I, uh, at some point I will, I feel, I feel a little bit of a calling. Yeah. My toes into that. Yeah. uh, but I haven't yet got. Lace Larry's class school. I haven't taken it, but I've seen the students that I see coming out of class are always super hilarious. So it seems like a great experience. We have a previous guest who took classes with lace. Libby and suggested them. And so that, it's interesting, you're saying that because that seed has been planted and I think I would definitely take hers. if I were to pursue it. Cool. But I definitely like, I have a notes app where I'm like, Hey, this is a funny thing. And I'll record voice memos of myself, like telling jokes and stuff like that. Sometimes I go back and listen. I'm like delete. I'm like, there's something here. This can be refined. Absolutely. so yeah, I think just humor is so important to me because I do think it's a vehicle for, diffusing tension and it allows for conversations around topics that maybe are tough for people. And so, uh, yeah. Humor is just very, very, very important to me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. one of the things that I, uh, enjoy a lot. You know, I mentioned earlier. Uh, creating with other folks. Yeah. Uh, even if I'm just an audience member, like a spectator, right? Like I draw. A lot of inspiration from that. And I think that something that I'm really thankful for in Atlanta is just like the creative scene and there's all these really cool pockets of artists making great stuff. And so something that is exciting about the show tonight is the people that I'm inviting or people that I feel that way about. Like when I watch them, I'm like, wow, there's something that you do that inspires me in some way. so that's something that, uh, I've drawn a lot of inspiration from, because I think like pre pandemic. I was so focused on getting on stage as much as I could, right. To. Like get reps and to build those skills. And I think in slowing down from the pandemic, something that I. I think was reminded of how much I enjoy. It was like, oh, I'm so like watching this stuff. Yeah. For sure. And not just comedy, but like going to see a movement piece or going to see a player going to see. Uh, musician or something like that. And so I think something that has recently been exciting for me creatively has been like the role of an audience member and finding inspiration from other folks. Yeah. Just like in different lanes than myself. Yeah. And so, so, so I'm in. And I really love when those, uh, different disciplines come together. So like a variety show, style thing, or even you might not even be at a variety show, but like, you know, like when you're at, like, I don't know, this is just a random example, like you're at a dance show or something like that. And there's a lot of great dancing going on. You're like these people are moving this fantastic. I was talking. And then suddenly somewhere, someone started singing lyrics and you're like, what is this? Yeah. And normally it wouldn't be that surprising on stage for someone to sing lyrics, but when they haven't been singing the whole time and they start singing, you're like, Hey, how about that? Yeah. And there's certain shows around town where I feel like, I feel like right club does this really well, where they, Um, invite people of different disciplines to come together in one space. And I just really love. You know, that, that mashup with that, that desire. I love that. Cause I do think, ah, There's inspiration everywhere and so many unexpected places. And you just have to be open to it. And seeing people. Interpret things differently and perform them. It's just so cool. And Atlanta's the, I mean, there are issues with Atlanta, of course, but it's a creatively, it's such a wonderful city to be in and we're surrounded by so many people who just like are passionate and just are trying to put out really cool stuff. Yeah. I think it just invites all of us to level up and just, you know, Yeah, produce it our best level as we can. Yeah. Yeah. And I think like from watching those artists that I really enjoy a lot. It's informed a lot of my work in the sense of like how I collaborate with folks, you know? Cause. A lot of what we do with cool, cool productions is like, you know, we'll collaborate with an organization or a company or whoever. And it's like, and it's not always just comedy, but it's like, how can we create some sort of content. With you. To help you, you know, tell your own story the way you want to see it told, you know, And so it's learning how to work with people that may not necessarily be, uh, comedians or may not necessarily. you know, consider. Do storytelling all day, every day. Right. You know, and, but they have stories and they have a point of view and learning like, how can we kind of bring this together? I think that's why I'm attracted to the variety show format, because it sort of then shows up in the work, you know, Uh, and that's something that's really cool. Like, so for example, bill and I are working with some folks in the public health space. I don't know anything about. I'm learning a little bit about it, but it's like, it's definitely like a new space and learning how we each see things differently, but like seeing where we meet. is something that's been, really great. So, so yeah, like different forms of, uh, collaboration where you're kind of like trying to blend things, you know what I mean? Uh, that's been something that I've really, I think I appreciated most about, you know, getting to do this production company stuff. Oh, that sounds amazing. Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah. All of that. Yeah. Well, mark. I'm excited to see you in just a couple hours. It's variety. Shout out. this episode will air after that, but I will link all of your information and stuff like that. And then I'll share it on our page today. So hopefully is it sold out? Uh, if sought out, but just like, you know, come combine track. Yeah. Okay. well, mark, will you let people know where they can find you? Yeah. So, uh, my name is mark Kendall. So, on like Instagram, if you want to see my comedy videos and stuff, look at mark Kendall comedy. Uh, but for cool, cool production staff, you can go to. Cool. Cool. Cool. pro.com. You can also look me up on LinkedIn. There, you know, if you want to, uh, look at that more corporate side or whatever. also I'm just around Atlanta, too. So I'll post about shows that I'm doing or where I'm performing. So come and say hello. Yeah. Perfect. And I'll link all of that in the show notes. Of course also, Mark. Thank you so much again for your time. This has been so enjoyable and such a treat to get to spend so much one on one time with you. you can find at Clover club on Instagram at Clover club, pod and friendly reminder listeners get 15% off@hawkinsonclover.com with promo code Clover club, all caps and mark. I'll see you tonight. Listeners I'll hear you next week. And yes. Thank you so much. Thank you. Bye. Great. Yeah. This table is awesome by. Okay. As you're watching this on the podcast wants to do.