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>> Peter: Opportunity multiplier, a different view, a wider
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view, a longer view.
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>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: Don't look at what's falling apart, he's saying.
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Yes, that is true. This is falling apart and I
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still need a wider view.
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>> Oliver: Everything we see right now, today in the world is
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a product of somebody else's imagination.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Once something has seized our imagination, it
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starts to shape our choices, how we spend our
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time, where we put our energy, and the type of
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future we are building.
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>> Peterson Toscano: Welcome back to the second half of our marathon
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Season four Reflection. We got so many voicemails
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from folks and we've had so much to share that we
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decided to break it up into two. How are you two
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feeling? You ready for the rest of the marathon?
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>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: Absolutely. Love running welcome to Climate
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Changed, a podcast from the BTS Center Foreign.
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I'm Ophelia Hukini, the BTS Center's Strategic
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Communications Director.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: I'm Nicole deroff, Associate Director at the BTS
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Center.
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>> Peterson Toscano: And I'm Peterson Toscano, producer of the Climate
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Changed podcast. And today we are closing season
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four with a Reflection episode.
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>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: And it's absolutely fine. If you haven't heard any
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or all of season four yet, you'll hear the themes
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and the questions and some of the voices that made
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this season so, so, so rich.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Each episode of climate change begins with a
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grounding, and for this season ending Reflection
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episode, our grounding is a voice message, and
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this one is from a dear friend of the BTS Center.
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She might win the award of most programs attended
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and we actually do track this, but we've never
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given an award. But anyway, it might be Susan.
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So Susan from Baton Rouge responded to the
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disaster response episode by remembering Hurricane
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Katrina and the role of Louisiana's churches in
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that moment.
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>> Susan: Before her wind and water ever arrived, Hurricane
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Katrina blew into Baton Rouge downtown, spinning
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off plans, crises and challenges for corporate,
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cultural and nonprofit institutions alike and for
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the people who run them in the city's heart.
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Creative responses and collaborations between
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institutions within downtown and far beyond led
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the capital city's human response to Louisiana's
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greatest natural disaster. Even a month after
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hurricane in August 2005, the River center still
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has 4,200 people still living there. It was the
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first churches who first responded. And so into
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Katrina we saw what was happening with First
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Baptist, First Methodist, First Presbyterian, St.
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James of His School, and St. Joseph Catholic. They
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were meeting to list their assets and coordinate
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their efforts so as to complement rather than
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duplicate each other's activities. It was pretty
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amazing of what developed and the ways in which
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they took care of families and all of those
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churches and their affiliated congregations were
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able to respond to the thousands of people who had
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now become residents of Baton rouge. In the 50
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something years I've lived here, I still see it as
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Baton Rouge's finest hour. Thank you for this
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opportunity to respond.
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>> Peterson Toscano: Susan gives us such a concrete picture of
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adaptation. Not adaptation as an abstract policy
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word, but as churches listing their assets,
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coordinating efforts try not to duplicate each
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other's work. And you know, coming from Baton
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Rouge, she knows about disasters.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: That phrase listing our assets is so important.
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What do we already have? What? Kitchens, vans,
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phone trees, volunteers, relationships and local
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knowledge is already here.
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>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: And then how do we organize and map those assets
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and gifts before disaster arrives, rather than
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waiting until people are already in crisis? And
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I'll add also that there's something important
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about knowing that sometimes the gifts that you
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have may not show up on a inventory. There are
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things that you have that may not seem valuable to
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you, but in this realm can be priceless to someone
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else.
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>> Peterson Toscano: And I've learned this as a volunteer with the Red
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Cross, that sometimes, like when you're at a
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emergency shelter, people just need somebody to
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talk to. Like that's a skill, listening or play
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with the kids and, you know, put together a puppet
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show or something. Like when people are scared and
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bored and uncertain and unhoused, they need all
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kinds of people and not just folks who know how to
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do disaster stuff. I have to say how much I
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enjoyed listening to you, Nicole, when you talked
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about making a public apology to John Bear
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Mitchell.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: That was powerful, Peterson. We've had a
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relationship, for many years now, working on this
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podcast and other things together. I really
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treasure it. Truly. I trust you in this really
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weird way that I don't trust anyone else because
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you take these conversations and put them out for
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public consumption. Somehow I totally trust you
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with that. I actually don't want to listen. In
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between, as you're doing your editing and your
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producing, we have these conversations. And then
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just so you all know listeners, I listen when you
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listen. I listen when it comes out, when it pops
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into my feed. So anyway, the trust is quite
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unbelievable.
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I want to reflect on apologizing to Jon Bear
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Mitchell. I usually take some notes about things
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I'd love to talk about in a particular episode as
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I'm getting ready and y'.
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>> Peterson Toscano: All.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: That was not on my list. That moment was not on my
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list of things I thought I might talk about. But
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the conversation with Autumn drew it out. I
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listened to that episode Walking on the beach when
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it was released I experienced over again just the
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way in which sharing that story raised my heart
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rate and truly was such a vulnerable act. And then
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to put it in a podcast for anyone to hear, oh my
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gosh, Autumn is the best. She's just the best.
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Listening to the way that she held that and drew
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out, I was learning from my own story. I mean,
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it's like what the best therapist might do. Like
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I'm sharing the story, but somehow like, she's
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helping me see so much more in it. I'm deeply
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grateful to Autumn for that one moment and for so
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many along this season. I should share that. After
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that episode came out, I did share it with Jon
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Bear Mitchell and said, I pray that I reflected
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this story in a way that honors you and our
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ongoing collegiality. He shared back with me that
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listening to that episode led him to listen to
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several more episodes. So that was really
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beautiful, this full circle relationality. All
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right, thank you. Thank you, Nicole.
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>> Peterson Toscano: This season began with the theme of world
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building, but it just kept moving through. Very
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practical at times and very deeply spiritual
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questions. So you have been part of the process
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from the beginning. What are you carrying from
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season four?
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: So I think I want to start reflecting on that
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episode around natural disasters and Katie Mears.
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The thing that comes to me on the regular is the
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way in which Katie talked about our little grinchy
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hearts having the possibility of growing a size
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bigger. I m do think that our like little grinchy
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hearts do grow. When we can do something together
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that's outside of our comfort zone. At the best,
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that's what disasters can be. It's literally
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dissolving the boundaries of what is known. Right?
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>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: Yeah.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: It doesn't mean we're going to hold on to doing
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that specific thing every day forever. But if we
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like let our hearts grow a size and our
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imaginations grow a size, we can do a different
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thing that is part of that transformation. We have
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a muscle to try a new thing and be changed by it.
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Even in tough situations. How might we approach
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this in a way that grows our heart a size larger?
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Actually, that happens all the time. It happens
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all the time in all kinds of situations of loss
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and struggle. Two years ago, my mother in law
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passed. There are little reminders, seasonal
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reminders that make me reflect on that ending. It
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was incredibly hard and the family grew incredibly
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close. I think our hearts got bigger for going
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through it. Now that's a loss. Many of our
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listeners will have had losses of significant
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loved ones. So to imagine the way in which loss
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can grow our hearts Larger, maybe even it's just a
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day to day kind of struggle observing something
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with a neighbor. It can grow our hearts a little
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larger. Especially, especially, especially when we
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get to live into being the sorts of humans I
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believe we were created to be, which is social,
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interconnected humans that do things with one
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another, reach out and hold a hand. And I think so
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often about the things that we're up against that
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separate us, that need us to actively practice
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that reaching out and that holding a hand.
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Peterson, you made this comment about our species
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being at war with the natural world. It makes me
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think about how two things are true, or maybe, a
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lot more than a lot more than two. But here's the
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two. In my neighborhood, I drive by a house where
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a child is very committed to the turtles that have
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decided to nest right next to the road on their
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property. They have put up all these signs, turtle
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crossing, slow down. Yeah, that's the human
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species too. And then I think about stories of
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young kids who take firecrackers and blow up
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frogs. And it's probably the same age of young
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person. One is setting up signs to protect turtles
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and the other is thinking, it's fun to blow up a
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creature. How is this possible? That this is both
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our species, But I just want to keep leaning into
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it is part of our species to care so, so much that
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we would set up signs and make sure the turtles
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can get to the other side safely.
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Aura's quote that we heard in the episode with
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Aura, she says she experiences people who are
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hungry for culture. Culture before it was eaten up
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by capitalism just resonates like, so strongly for
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me. This eaten up by capitalism way in which our,
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religions and our cultures have been tied up in
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something. I've been in a course recently where we
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kind of make a distinction between imperial
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Christianity and what we might be inspired by in
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the stories of Jesus. Why is there such a
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difference? I mean, something has seriously been
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eaten up. I have been just pursuing this question.
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One of the ways in which we've been doing that
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here in Maine is by asking some of our indigenous
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brothers and sisters to share with us their
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perspectives. Recently we had a Passamaquoddy
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language keeper named Dwayne Thoma join us for a
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program where he shared an indigenous perspective
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on the doctrine of discovery, which is capitalism
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eating up Christianity, capitalism and colonialism
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and the violent impulse eating up Christianity and
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causing so much harm. Duane, at the end of his
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presentation, he said, you know, I am not looking
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for left wing or right wing. He was referring to
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Politics. But he said, I need a bird with two
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strong wings.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: And I've been thinking about that bird imagery. We
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need a bird with two strong wings. We need it to
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have a large heart built through honesty and truth
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telling and suffering and loss and a, growing,
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growing heart. We need birds with heads high. When
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we hear these stories of the doctrine of
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discovery, they could easily leave us with our
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head tucked over in shame. But we have to find
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ways for our hearts to help us hold our heads high
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and then to find those other birds that want to
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form a V with us and to fly in unison together.
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That is the metaphor that I think is the culture
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of the visionary future that I want, want to lean
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into, that I long for. No more intergalactic blah
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over here. As you said, Peterson, this is us being
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ourselves in the best possible way.
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>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: Nicole, what you said about Rabbi Ora's quote
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about how people are hungry for culture before it
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was eaten up by capitalism. Oh, that got me
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thinking also about Tory's insistence on futures
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that are worth living for, futures that are worth
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fighting for to evade the intergalactic blah that
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Peterson has introduced us to. It makes me think
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about, like, who in those stories gets to decide,
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like, what culture looks like and our acceptance
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that there are just some things that will have to
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get sacrificed, or some people or some cultures or
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some traditions and rituals that will just have to
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be sacrificed in the name of the preservation of
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the great intergalactic blah blah. There's an
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insidious thread beneath that that says the things
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that make us so vibrant and lovely and diverse,
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those are going to have to go in order for us to
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maintain some kind of future civilization.
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>> Speaker F: Boo.
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>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: Yeah. It has not held true, like, read our history
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books or at least those that we can actually trust
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to tell the truth that just hasn't held true.
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I also want to, however, like, give us as a
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species a little bit of grace. Because I think
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that in hearing the wisdom of our guest, yes,
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there can be this sensation, or at least there was
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for me, of, dang it, like, whatever separation I
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feel from the more than human world and from my
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neighbors and community members and those who I
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see across the body of the bird to the other wing
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on like, my separation from those, like, that's my
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fault and I've done something terribly wrong to
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evoke this. And if listener you're feeling that, I
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invite you to have a little grace for yourself.
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Because the separation that we're experiencing is
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by design, to some degree. This is the
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condemnation that the powerful and the wealthy
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have concocted in order to make it easy to exploit
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and extract from land, from the more than human
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world and from humans. I gain a lot of my
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spiritual imagination these days also from what
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the more than human world is up to and has been up
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to. Not in a way that says I want to project human
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experiences and feelings onto these other species,
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but but in a sense that we're not that different
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and we're not that separate. For us to participate
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in the same economies of reciprocity or communal
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life the way that other life forms do is pretty
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natural. Recently I learned that there are times
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when trees are cut down and you see a stump and
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you imagine this tree is dead. In the meantime, it
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is being fed by other species and other trees
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around it to a point where something that looks
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like a tree can come out of that stump again. It
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doesn't have the ability on its own anymore as a
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stump to photosynthesize, to nourish itself, but
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it is still receiving nourishment from its
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neighbors because of perhaps reciprocity, maybe a
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sense that the world is better with this neighbor
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in it. Maybe out of something like love, I don't
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know.
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>> Peterson Toscano: Beautiful.
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>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: I do want to get to another voicemail. Our next
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voicemail comes from Michael, who responded to a
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theme that has appeared in the BTS Center's work
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before. It came again really powerfully through
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this season, too. What Michael is referring to.
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Peterson, you actually brought this up earlier,
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the call to be a good ancestor. Let's listen to
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this voicemail.
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>> Michael: This topic was perhaps first discussed in a BTS
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center online event with Sherry Mitchell, an
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Indigenous author and activist from the Penobscot
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Nation, and then again this season by Norma Wong,
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a Zen master. Both of these teachers spoke about
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the concept of being good ancestors, which struck
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me as a profound concept when I first heard it,
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and the impact of it still resonates with me as it
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sunk in. I thought that our Christian traditions
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didn't hold this idea. I couldn't recall hearing
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it in any sermons, but I was wrong. Using my
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computer's AI tool, I was reminded that the Bible
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does talk about God's covenant being for many
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generations and such, but being good ancestors
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seems to be a much more important, more fully
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developed, and more clearly articulated belief
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amongst Indigenous people. Think about how
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differently we would behave if we held this
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concept in our minds, the need to be good
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ancestors to those who will follow us. We're not
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separated from those who preceded us or those who
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will follow. I think Sherry and Norma are saying
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that we are deeply connected with many peoples
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across time. Norma asserts that we are connected
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with all creatures and the entire universe across
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the vastness of time. Sherry described time as
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more of a circle than a line, and we have
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responsibilities to them all. Don't let this idea
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pass as just a catchphrase. Stop and dwell on it.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: That was fun to listen to for me, especially
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because Michael is my father. And Peterson, maybe
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other than you, is a person who has been
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thoroughly impacted by climate change. He is a
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very devoted listener to this podcast. There was a
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day that he said, you know, I always thought of
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you as smart, but when did you become wise? Which
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is, like, an amazing thing to hear from a parent.
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>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: What a gift.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: But this message really touched me because my dad
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is often the one who comes home from church and
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says, okay, we were asked to slow down and reflect
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again. Really? I want to get to work. I want the M
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sermon to be about a piece of action. So here's my
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father taking in the wisdom of climate change and
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saying, don't just sit with this as a catchphrase.
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Really stop and dwell on it.
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>> Peterson Toscano: Yeah. And that's a really good reminder for this
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whole season. I mean, world building. It's not
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just a clever theme. Right. That we came up with.
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It really developed throughout the season, but
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what it really is is a way of asking what we owe
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to those who came before us, those who are here
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now and those who are yet to be born.
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>> Speaker F: Yeah.
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>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: it's asking us to stretch our imagination across
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time, too. So not just what do I want right now,
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but what kind of ancestor am I becoming right now?
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>> Peterson Toscano: Well, I'm loving these voicemails, and I'm so glad
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we received so many. We also heard from Katie, who
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shared something we always hope for with this
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podcast, that these conversations do not stay
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abstract, and we really try to make them
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practical. So they move into congregations,
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committees, preaching, literature, relationships,
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and decisions. So thank you, Katie, for this
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voicemail.
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>> Katie: Hey, Autumn. hi, Nicole. Thank you so much for all
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of the incredible conversations and incredible
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guests, this season, and also share two ways that
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this podcast has impacted me over this past year.
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So, the church community that I attend, has been
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working on solar panels. I'm on their, like,
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sustainability team in this push towards the vote.
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I was doing a lot of writing, liturgy, and
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preaching about kinship and sustainability, our
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connection to creation, pouring in eco theology
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resources, really hyping up this investment that I
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see as so aligned with our values. The solar panel
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vote passed, which was awesome. But in
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conversations with people in church and hearing a
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lot of their anxieties and fears about the future,
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particularly concerns about money and financial
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investments, I was imagining that there might be
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different concerns. I think just the ways that
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this podcast has helped to build my muscles of
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imagination and hope so strong, and it also has
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encouraged me that I need to support others in,
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you know, building those muscles, too. Solar
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panels are so clearly a, dream seed early on in my
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timeline that helps to create the clean, green,
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and just future that I envision for my community.
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This podcast help gives me tools to help others
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see that vision and expand their imaginations as
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well, that a better future is possible and we
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don't need to freeze or have these emotions lead
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to inaction, but that we can work together and
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have some really exciting things happen. So, yay,
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solar panels. The other thing that I wanted to
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share is that I really love the storytelling
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episodes from Convocation. I listened to Tyler's
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story with my grandmother. I call her Nonnie, and
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she has Parkinson's, which makes it harder to get
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outside and be outdoors these days. Listening to
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that really immersive soundscape with the waves
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and loon calls was really nostalgic. Beautiful way
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for us to connect and remember times together
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outside. So, thank you for creating spaces that
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cultivate hope and conversation and connection and
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imagination. I'm grateful for both of you.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Katie gives us such a beautiful example of world
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building in practical terms. In practice, a solar
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panel vote is practical. It's applied, it's
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financial, it's logistical, and it's also
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spiritual. It takes a community to imagine itself
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behaving differently.
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>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: Our executive director, Alan, often says that a
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budget is a moral document, and that's what that
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reminds me of. Yeah, I love, love, love that Katie
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calls solar panels a dream seed.
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>> Peterson Toscano: Yes.
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>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: You know who else uses this is Tory Stevens in the
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grist world. They invite us to nurture these dream
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seeds.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: So Katie came to a workshop with Tory. So I'm
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pretty sure all these amazing interconnections.
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I'm, pretty sure Katie's using that word because
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Tory introduced it to her.
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>> Speaker F: Nice.
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>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: great. Let all of these seeds. Dream seeds.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Yes.
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>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: So this dream seed phrase, I think, just carries a
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lot of this season. Right. So it's not just
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technologies and projects, and we're really
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talking about seeds of a future that people can
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begin to see and work toward together.
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>> Peterson Toscano: And Katie's also reminding us that the podcast
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isn't just about our head and ideas. It can become
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liturgy and preaching. A, conversation with a
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grandmother. You know, it's a stepping off point.
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It can be so much more. And that's what I loved
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about this season. I don't know, there were
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moments that I felt, particularly with the
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grounding exercises, that it was like being taken
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away and allowed to just kind of detach from all
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the stuff and experience something sacred,
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something grounded, that I found myself talking
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about later in the day.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: All right, this next voicemail comes from Peter in
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Littleton, New Hampshire. Peter's responding to
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the conversation that Autumn and I had about Katie
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Mears and disaster response, and especially to the
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moment in that conversation where we talk about
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how climate change can not only be a threat
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multiplier, but also an opportunity multiplier.
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>> Peter: I just wanted to call and say how much I
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appreciated the conversation between Autumn and
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Nicole about Katie Mears. What really struck me is
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how much I need driving up and down the road,
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which is when I tend to listen to climate change,
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to hear words of encouragement and to hear things
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like opportunity multiplier. A different view, a,
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ah, wider view, a longer view. I just know in my
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life, I know a lot of ways that it's easy to turn
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to what we don't have, what's falling apart, what
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is not going as we want it to, which is also true.
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And it's all the more reason why I need to see the
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challenges of today also as opportunities for
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change, for coming together, for new ways of being
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and wider ways of looking. So thank you for what
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you're doing and for the difference that it makes
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in my everyday life. So grateful. Thanks.
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>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: I really appreciate Peter's honesty in that. That,
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he doesn't say, don't look at what's falling
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apart. He's saying, yes, that is true. This is
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falling apart. And I still need a wider view.
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>> Peterson Toscano: And I'm loving yet another connection here because
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the first time I heard that phrase, how it's a
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threat multiplier, but also an opportunity
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multiplier, was Dr. Natasha DeJarnette. So I knew
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before the BTS center when I was working at
499
00:26:16,941 --> 00:26:20,461
Citizens Climate Lobby, and she said that publicly
500
00:26:20,461 --> 00:26:23,781
and said it on the podcast that I did for them. So
501
00:26:23,781 --> 00:26:27,221
I just like that that phrase is alive. I don't
502
00:26:27,221 --> 00:26:29,621
know if he heard it from her, but kind of all
503
00:26:29,621 --> 00:26:30,661
coming together there.
504
00:26:31,061 --> 00:26:34,101
>> Rev Nicole Diroff: And Peter and Natasha are both board members of
505
00:26:34,101 --> 00:26:37,101
the BTS center, so maybe this is all becoming a
506
00:26:37,101 --> 00:26:39,781
little too, like, internal circle. But it is
507
00:26:39,781 --> 00:26:43,501
amazing the way that these ideas flow among and
508
00:26:43,501 --> 00:26:44,261
between us.
509
00:26:44,581 --> 00:26:47,661
>> Peterson Toscano: Yeah. And how we, like, encourage and influence
510
00:26:47,661 --> 00:26:50,661
and inspire each other. Cross pollination.
511
00:26:50,821 --> 00:26:53,141
>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Yeah. It's the work of our relationship building
512
00:26:53,301 --> 00:26:56,771
and it's the work of this podcast to offer people
513
00:26:57,251 --> 00:27:00,771
a longer view while they are doing the very
514
00:27:00,771 --> 00:27:04,041
ordinary things that make up a, life. My podcast
515
00:27:04,041 --> 00:27:07,281
listening is when I'm driving somewhere to pick up
516
00:27:07,281 --> 00:27:10,040
my son. It's when I'm folding laundry, it's when
517
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,521
I'm washing dishes, it's when I'm walking the
518
00:27:12,521 --> 00:27:17,561
dogs. Having these deep big perspectives while
519
00:27:17,561 --> 00:27:19,921
doing the day to day is sort of what it's all
520
00:27:19,921 --> 00:27:20,201
about.
521
00:27:20,751 --> 00:27:23,551
>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: Our next voicemail comes from Oliver. Oliver is
522
00:27:23,551 --> 00:27:26,031
responding to conversations about imagination,
523
00:27:26,751 --> 00:27:29,471
including the conversation with Tor Stevens about
524
00:27:29,471 --> 00:27:30,431
Thrutopia.
525
00:27:32,111 --> 00:27:35,031
>> Oliver: It reminded me of Joanna Macy's work on
526
00:27:35,031 --> 00:27:37,711
imagination. I just finished doing a book club
527
00:27:37,711 --> 00:27:40,191
with my local interfaith council where we read
528
00:27:40,191 --> 00:27:43,191
Maci's book, Active Hope. Maci like the
529
00:27:43,191 --> 00:27:45,511
conversation you all had. She talks about how
530
00:27:45,511 --> 00:27:48,961
important it is to imagine a better world. She
531
00:27:48,961 --> 00:27:52,321
challenged us to look at the world we see around
532
00:27:52,321 --> 00:27:55,601
us and consider that everything we see right now,
533
00:27:55,601 --> 00:27:59,001
today in the world is a product of somebody else's
534
00:27:59,001 --> 00:28:01,641
imagination. She challenged us to think about the
535
00:28:01,641 --> 00:28:04,720
world we want to see that's better. And to trust
536
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,681
that when we imagine it, it unlocks hope and
537
00:28:07,681 --> 00:28:10,281
motivation to work for that world and work for the
538
00:28:10,281 --> 00:28:13,921
change that we want to see. I work with Ignatian
539
00:28:13,921 --> 00:28:15,841
spirituality. I'm a retreat director and a
540
00:28:15,841 --> 00:28:17,731
spiritual director. And we often talk about the
541
00:28:17,731 --> 00:28:20,751
importance of imagination as a spirit practice.
542
00:28:21,071 --> 00:28:24,111
Listening to Autumn and Nicole's conversation on
543
00:28:24,431 --> 00:28:27,111
daily practices and imagination reminded me of
544
00:28:27,111 --> 00:28:30,391
this prayer of Joseph Whelan that circulates a lot
545
00:28:30,391 --> 00:28:32,511
in Ignatian circles. So I'll leave you with this.
546
00:28:33,151 --> 00:28:35,471
What you are in love with, what seizes your
547
00:28:35,471 --> 00:28:39,471
imagination will affect everything. It will decide
548
00:28:39,631 --> 00:28:40,391
what will get you
549
00:28:40,391 --> 00:28:42,191
>> Oliver: out of bed in the morning, what
550
00:28:42,191 --> 00:28:45,191
>> Oliver: you do with your evenings, how you spend your
551
00:28:45,191 --> 00:28:49,381
weekends, what you read, whom you know, and what
552
00:28:49,381 --> 00:28:52,821
breaks your heart, what amazes you with joy and
553
00:28:52,821 --> 00:28:55,861
gratitude. Thank you so much for the work you're
554
00:28:55,861 --> 00:28:57,741
doing and keep up the great work. Bye bye.
555
00:28:59,261 --> 00:29:03,301
>> Rev Nicole Diroff: That question, what seizes your imagination? Feels
556
00:29:03,301 --> 00:29:06,061
like one of the deepest questions of this season.
557
00:29:06,541 --> 00:29:09,341
Because once something has seized our imagination,
558
00:29:09,981 --> 00:29:12,951
it starts to shape our choices. How we spend our
559
00:29:12,951 --> 00:29:16,231
time, where we put our energy, and the type of
560
00:29:16,391 --> 00:29:18,471
future we are building today.
561
00:29:19,271 --> 00:29:21,951
>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: That feels like the right place to gather up the
562
00:29:21,951 --> 00:29:22,791
season's themes.
563
00:29:23,751 --> 00:29:26,951
>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Before we move into next steps, we want to name
564
00:29:27,271 --> 00:29:30,311
some of the themes that kept surfacing across the
565
00:29:30,311 --> 00:29:30,631
season.
566
00:29:31,031 --> 00:29:34,191
>> Peterson Toscano: Yeah, let's do it round robin style. So for me,
567
00:29:34,191 --> 00:29:37,151
one of them adaptation, not only as infrastructure
568
00:29:37,151 --> 00:29:39,831
but as spiritual and communal practice.
569
00:29:40,641 --> 00:29:41,011
>> Speaker C: Okay.
570
00:29:41,011 --> 00:29:45,171
>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: for me, imagination, not as an escape, but as
571
00:29:45,171 --> 00:29:45,971
responsibility.
572
00:29:47,011 --> 00:29:51,411
>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Grief and honesty in that grief and solidarity.
573
00:29:51,571 --> 00:29:53,331
Community in that grief.
574
00:29:53,811 --> 00:29:58,571
>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: Ancestors, the more than human world as kin and
575
00:29:58,571 --> 00:30:01,811
teacher and neighbor and participant in our lives
576
00:30:01,891 --> 00:30:04,531
and us in their spiritual leadership.
577
00:30:05,091 --> 00:30:08,991
>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Wise and creative individuals who know how to
578
00:30:08,991 --> 00:30:11,311
cultivate honest and caring communities.
579
00:30:11,791 --> 00:30:13,551
>> Peterson Toscano: Yeah, and you're listening right now and we're
580
00:30:13,551 --> 00:30:15,631
aware of you. Thank you for what you do.
581
00:30:15,631 --> 00:30:16,111
>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Yeah.
582
00:30:16,271 --> 00:30:18,751
>> Peterson Toscano: And that may be one of the clearest invitations of
583
00:30:18,751 --> 00:30:22,431
season four to become communities that can tell
584
00:30:22,431 --> 00:30:25,511
the truth, feel what is real, imagine what is
585
00:30:25,511 --> 00:30:28,111
possible, and practice what comes next.
586
00:30:36,291 --> 00:30:39,011
>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: As always, we want to close with some next steps.
587
00:30:39,331 --> 00:30:42,731
So this time the invitation is simple. We would
588
00:30:42,731 --> 00:30:45,171
love for you to share this season.
589
00:30:45,731 --> 00:30:49,491
>> Rev Nicole Diroff: If this episode or any of the episodes from season
590
00:30:49,491 --> 00:30:53,611
four made you think of someone, please share the
591
00:30:53,611 --> 00:30:57,691
episode with them. A personal note from you is the
592
00:30:57,691 --> 00:31:00,851
most powerful way for your friend, colleague or
593
00:31:00,851 --> 00:31:03,491
family member to discover this podcast.
594
00:31:03,811 --> 00:31:06,571
>> Peterson Toscano: You can also host a listening party and this can
595
00:31:06,571 --> 00:31:11,011
be in person or online. Choose an episode, gather
596
00:31:11,011 --> 00:31:13,491
a few people from your congregation, family,
597
00:31:13,571 --> 00:31:16,011
community group, you know, whatever, and just
598
00:31:16,011 --> 00:31:16,691
listen together.
599
00:31:17,091 --> 00:31:20,611
>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Each episode comes with a discussion guide so you
600
00:31:20,611 --> 00:31:22,971
don't need to create your own curriculum. You can
601
00:31:22,971 --> 00:31:25,571
use the questions, the activities, the suggested
602
00:31:25,571 --> 00:31:29,041
next steps to help your group reflect and respond.
603
00:31:29,521 --> 00:31:32,001
>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: Some other ideas. You can put an episode in a
604
00:31:32,001 --> 00:31:35,281
church bulletin or a newsletter or community email
605
00:31:35,281 --> 00:31:38,241
or Google group. You can share a link with a
606
00:31:38,241 --> 00:31:41,321
clergy colleague or lay leader, a teacher, an
607
00:31:41,321 --> 00:31:43,921
artist, an organizer, someone who's just trying to
608
00:31:43,921 --> 00:31:45,041
make sense of this moment.
609
00:31:45,441 --> 00:31:47,801
>> Peterson Toscano: There's also people looking for this like they
610
00:31:47,801 --> 00:31:49,841
don't know what they're looking for because they
611
00:31:49,841 --> 00:31:52,411
don't know it exists. And you can help them by
612
00:31:52,411 --> 00:31:54,971
posting a link to an episode in a Reddit
613
00:31:54,971 --> 00:31:58,891
discussion. A Slack community Discord server,
614
00:31:59,211 --> 00:32:01,731
which is a funny thing. Discord. We, we just set
615
00:32:01,731 --> 00:32:04,891
up a Quaker discord group, which Quakers really
616
00:32:04,891 --> 00:32:07,611
shouldn't have. Discord. No, we really had to
617
00:32:07,611 --> 00:32:09,651
explain to some of the Quakers, it's like, no, it
618
00:32:09,651 --> 00:32:12,851
is not actual discord, but, you know, but like a
619
00:32:12,851 --> 00:32:15,131
Facebook group, you know, there are people who are
620
00:32:15,131 --> 00:32:17,391
looking for this. How will they know unless, you
621
00:32:17,391 --> 00:32:19,851
tell them? and so wherever people are talking
622
00:32:19,851 --> 00:32:22,931
about climate or faith grief community, it doesn't
623
00:32:22,931 --> 00:32:24,611
have to be just about climate because as you know
624
00:32:24,611 --> 00:32:27,571
from listening, this encompasses so much of life.
625
00:32:27,731 --> 00:32:31,251
>> Rev Nicole Diroff: And don't forget the videos. You can find full
626
00:32:31,251 --> 00:32:34,371
length video episodes, short clips and bonus
627
00:32:34,371 --> 00:32:37,171
material on the BTS Center's YouTube page.
628
00:32:37,891 --> 00:32:40,371
Consider playing a short video during a Ah, class.
629
00:32:40,531 --> 00:32:43,571
Or in a worship service, a meeting or community
630
00:32:43,571 --> 00:32:44,131
gathering.
631
00:32:44,701 --> 00:32:47,501
>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: And this hot tip goes out to everyone who has ever
632
00:32:47,501 --> 00:32:50,541
texted me a podcast episode in the past with no
633
00:32:50,541 --> 00:32:54,781
context. When you share, tell people why not just
634
00:32:54,941 --> 00:32:59,021
this or here's a podcast. But this conversation
635
00:32:59,021 --> 00:33:01,941
helped me think differently about adaptation or
636
00:33:01,941 --> 00:33:05,541
imagination, or how it takes being a neighbor to
637
00:33:05,541 --> 00:33:07,621
have neighborhoods. Or this episode gave me
638
00:33:07,621 --> 00:33:11,041
language for climate grief. Or this guest helped
639
00:33:11,041 --> 00:33:13,281
me to imagine the future in a totally new way.
640
00:33:13,361 --> 00:33:15,121
>> Peterson Toscano: Yeah, you need to listen to Ophelia because
641
00:33:15,121 --> 00:33:17,561
Ophelia knows what she's talking about. She has
642
00:33:17,561 --> 00:33:20,521
done such a brilliant job this season. It's been
643
00:33:20,521 --> 00:33:23,321
such a joy working with you, Ophelia. and you
644
00:33:23,321 --> 00:33:26,201
know, just knowing that this great work that we're
645
00:33:26,201 --> 00:33:29,001
doing is getting out there, seeing those clips pop
646
00:33:29,001 --> 00:33:31,881
up in my YouTube and there they are. It's just so,
647
00:33:31,881 --> 00:33:35,441
it's so exciting. So thank you for that great work
648
00:33:35,441 --> 00:33:37,121
and modeling it so beautifully.
649
00:33:38,371 --> 00:33:40,451
>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: Thanks Peters. It's a joy to work with you too.
650
00:33:40,451 --> 00:33:40,561
>> Speaker F: Aw.
651
00:33:40,561 --> 00:33:45,221
>> Rev Nicole Diroff: this has been just a big old love fest. And now a,
652
00:33:45,171 --> 00:33:45,691
look ahead.
653
00:33:47,691 --> 00:33:50,771
>> Peterson Toscano: Yes, there will be a season five of climate
654
00:33:50,771 --> 00:33:51,131
change.
655
00:33:51,211 --> 00:33:51,931
>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Woohoo.
656
00:33:52,891 --> 00:33:57,051
>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: Season five will begin in March 2027, so mark your
657
00:33:57,051 --> 00:34:00,051
calendars that entire month and Autumn Brown and
658
00:34:00,051 --> 00:34:01,971
Nicole Ziroff will be back with us for that
659
00:34:01,971 --> 00:34:02,251
season.
660
00:34:02,901 --> 00:34:05,861
>> Rev Nicole Diroff: In the meantime, we are going to share episodes
661
00:34:05,861 --> 00:34:09,101
from other podcasts that we love and listen to all
662
00:34:09,101 --> 00:34:11,461
the time and we want to share with you.
663
00:34:11,701 --> 00:34:11,871
>> Speaker F: Yeah.
664
00:34:11,871 --> 00:34:15,021
>> Peterson Toscano: Ah, think of it as a podcast swap season. We're
665
00:34:15,021 --> 00:34:16,981
going to feature episodes from some of our
666
00:34:16,981 --> 00:34:19,741
favorite podcasts and those folks will share one
667
00:34:19,741 --> 00:34:21,711
of, our episodes with their listeners.
668
00:34:22,191 --> 00:34:24,791
>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: So stay subscribed and there will be more to hear
669
00:34:24,791 --> 00:34:26,351
before season five begins.
670
00:34:30,751 --> 00:34:33,551
>> Peterson Toscano: Thank you for listening to Climate Change, a
671
00:34:33,551 --> 00:34:35,371
podcast from the BTS Center.
672
00:34:35,371 --> 00:34:38,811
>> Rev Nicole Diroff: The BTS center is located in beautiful Portland,
673
00:34:38,811 --> 00:34:42,131
Maine. We offer programs and resources for
674
00:34:42,131 --> 00:34:45,491
spiritual leaders, faith communities and all who
675
00:34:45,491 --> 00:34:49,011
are seeking to live with courage, compassion and
676
00:34:49,011 --> 00:34:51,531
imagination in a climate changed world.
677
00:34:51,851 --> 00:34:54,811
>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: You can find transcripts, discussion guides, full
678
00:34:54,811 --> 00:34:57,811
length video episodes, short videos and bonus
679
00:34:57,811 --> 00:35:01,341
material through the BTS Center's website and our
680
00:35:01,341 --> 00:35:02,101
YouTube page.
681
00:35:02,421 --> 00:35:04,621
>> Peterson Toscano: Climate change is produced by me, Peterson
682
00:35:04,621 --> 00:35:07,621
Toscano. Our season four hosts were autumn Brown
683
00:35:07,621 --> 00:35:08,901
and Nicole Deroff.
684
00:35:08,901 --> 00:35:11,461
>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Many thanks to our wonderful guests this season.
685
00:35:12,021 --> 00:35:16,561
Tory Stevens, Katie Mears, Norma Wong, Rabbi Ora,
686
00:35:16,511 --> 00:35:20,551
Nitkin Kainer, Frances Weller, whose voices helped
687
00:35:20,551 --> 00:35:23,911
shape a season of world building. Stay connected.
688
00:35:24,231 --> 00:35:28,831
You can email US podcast the btscenter.org we
689
00:35:28,831 --> 00:35:30,271
really do love hearing from you.
690
00:35:31,471 --> 00:35:35,391
Now as we close this episode and this season we
691
00:35:35,391 --> 00:35:38,351
turn to the words associated with Julian of
692
00:35:38,351 --> 00:35:41,911
Norwich, the 14th century English mystic who lived
693
00:35:41,911 --> 00:35:44,911
through plague, upheaval, and deep uncertainty.
694
00:35:45,391 --> 00:35:48,901
>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: Julian wrote, all shall be well, and all, shall be
695
00:35:48,901 --> 00:35:52,701
well, and all manner of things shall be well.
696
00:35:55,391 --> 00:35:58,631
>> Peterson Toscano: Not as denial and not as an escape, but as a
697
00:35:58,631 --> 00:36:02,151
stubborn sacred trust spoken from inside a
698
00:36:02,151 --> 00:36:02,911
troubled world.
699
00:36:04,431 --> 00:36:07,471
>> Rev Nicole Diroff: So may we become people who do not look away.
700
00:36:07,951 --> 00:36:11,071
>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: May we become people who can imagine beyond
701
00:36:11,071 --> 00:36:12,911
despair and beyond denial.
702
00:36:12,991 --> 00:36:16,031
>> Peterson Toscano: May we become good ancestors to those who will
703
00:36:16,031 --> 00:36:17,311
inherit what we do.
704
00:36:17,951 --> 00:36:20,191
>> Rev Nicole Diroff: May our community, communities learn to hold grief
705
00:36:20,271 --> 00:36:22,191
without being consumed by it.
706
00:36:22,991 --> 00:36:26,191
>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: May our stories make room for courage, kinship,
707
00:36:26,351 --> 00:36:28,111
repair and joy.
708
00:36:28,431 --> 00:36:31,511
>> Peterson Toscano: And in this climate changed world, may we keep
709
00:36:31,511 --> 00:36:33,311
building what love requires.
710
00:36:33,631 --> 00:36:36,591
>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: All shall be well, and all shall be well.
711
00:36:36,751 --> 00:36:39,391
>> Peterson Toscano: And all manner of things shall be well.
00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:05,600
>> Peter: Opportunity multiplier, a different view, a wider
2
00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:07,440
view, a longer view.
3
00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:10,560
>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: Don't look at what's falling apart, he's saying.
4
00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:14,480
Yes, that is true. This is falling apart and I
5
00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:16,000
still need a wider view.
6
00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:20,120
>> Oliver: Everything we see right now, today in the world is
7
00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:22,080
a product of somebody else's imagination.
8
00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:25,930
>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Once something has seized our imagination, it
9
00:00:25,930 --> 00:00:28,570
starts to shape our choices, how we spend our
10
00:00:28,570 --> 00:00:31,810
time, where we put our energy, and the type of
11
00:00:31,810 --> 00:00:33,410
future we are building.
12
00:00:34,690 --> 00:00:38,290
>> Peterson Toscano: Welcome back to the second half of our marathon
13
00:00:38,530 --> 00:00:42,370
Season four Reflection. We got so many voicemails
14
00:00:42,450 --> 00:00:45,130
from folks and we've had so much to share that we
15
00:00:45,130 --> 00:00:47,890
decided to break it up into two. How are you two
16
00:00:47,890 --> 00:00:49,650
feeling? You ready for the rest of the marathon?
17
00:00:49,890 --> 00:00:53,330
>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: Absolutely. Love running welcome to Climate
18
00:00:53,330 --> 00:00:58,030
Changed, a podcast from the BTS Center Foreign.
19
00:01:02,350 --> 00:01:05,270
I'm Ophelia Hukini, the BTS Center's Strategic
20
00:01:05,270 --> 00:01:06,270
Communications Director.
21
00:01:06,350 --> 00:01:09,630
>> Rev Nicole Diroff: I'm Nicole deroff, Associate Director at the BTS
22
00:01:09,630 --> 00:01:10,190
Center.
23
00:01:10,190 --> 00:01:13,310
>> Peterson Toscano: And I'm Peterson Toscano, producer of the Climate
24
00:01:13,310 --> 00:01:17,070
Changed podcast. And today we are closing season
25
00:01:17,070 --> 00:01:19,150
four with a Reflection episode.
26
00:01:19,470 --> 00:01:22,350
>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: And it's absolutely fine. If you haven't heard any
27
00:01:22,670 --> 00:01:26,030
or all of season four yet, you'll hear the themes
28
00:01:26,030 --> 00:01:28,390
and the questions and some of the voices that made
29
00:01:28,390 --> 00:01:30,220
this season so, so, so rich.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Each episode of climate change begins with a
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grounding, and for this season ending Reflection
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episode, our grounding is a voice message, and
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this one is from a dear friend of the BTS Center.
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She might win the award of most programs attended
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and we actually do track this, but we've never
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given an award. But anyway, it might be Susan.
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So Susan from Baton Rouge responded to the
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disaster response episode by remembering Hurricane
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Katrina and the role of Louisiana's churches in
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that moment.
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>> Susan: Before her wind and water ever arrived, Hurricane
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Katrina blew into Baton Rouge downtown, spinning
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off plans, crises and challenges for corporate,
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cultural and nonprofit institutions alike and for
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the people who run them in the city's heart.
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Creative responses and collaborations between
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institutions within downtown and far beyond led
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the capital city's human response to Louisiana's
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greatest natural disaster. Even a month after
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hurricane in August 2005, the River center still
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has 4,200 people still living there. It was the
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first churches who first responded. And so into
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Katrina we saw what was happening with First
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Baptist, First Methodist, First Presbyterian, St.
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James of His School, and St. Joseph Catholic. They
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were meeting to list their assets and coordinate
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their efforts so as to complement rather than
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duplicate each other's activities. It was pretty
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amazing of what developed and the ways in which
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they took care of families and all of those
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churches and their affiliated congregations were
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able to respond to the thousands of people who had
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now become residents of Baton rouge. In the 50
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something years I've lived here, I still see it as
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Baton Rouge's finest hour. Thank you for this
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opportunity to respond.
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>> Peterson Toscano: Susan gives us such a concrete picture of
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adaptation. Not adaptation as an abstract policy
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word, but as churches listing their assets,
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coordinating efforts try not to duplicate each
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other's work. And you know, coming from Baton
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Rouge, she knows about disasters.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: That phrase listing our assets is so important.
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What do we already have? What? Kitchens, vans,
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phone trees, volunteers, relationships and local
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knowledge is already here.
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>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: And then how do we organize and map those assets
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and gifts before disaster arrives, rather than
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waiting until people are already in crisis? And
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I'll add also that there's something important
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about knowing that sometimes the gifts that you
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have may not show up on a inventory. There are
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things that you have that may not seem valuable to
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you, but in this realm can be priceless to someone
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else.
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>> Peterson Toscano: And I've learned this as a volunteer with the Red
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Cross, that sometimes, like when you're at a
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emergency shelter, people just need somebody to
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talk to. Like that's a skill, listening or play
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with the kids and, you know, put together a puppet
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show or something. Like when people are scared and
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bored and uncertain and unhoused, they need all
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kinds of people and not just folks who know how to
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do disaster stuff. I have to say how much I
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enjoyed listening to you, Nicole, when you talked
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about making a public apology to John Bear
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Mitchell.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: That was powerful, Peterson. We've had a
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relationship, for many years now, working on this
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podcast and other things together. I really
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treasure it. Truly. I trust you in this really
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weird way that I don't trust anyone else because
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you take these conversations and put them out for
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public consumption. Somehow I totally trust you
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with that. I actually don't want to listen. In
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between, as you're doing your editing and your
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producing, we have these conversations. And then
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just so you all know listeners, I listen when you
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listen. I listen when it comes out, when it pops
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into my feed. So anyway, the trust is quite
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unbelievable.
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I want to reflect on apologizing to Jon Bear
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Mitchell. I usually take some notes about things
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I'd love to talk about in a particular episode as
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I'm getting ready and y'.
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>> Peterson Toscano: All.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: That was not on my list. That moment was not on my
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list of things I thought I might talk about. But
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the conversation with Autumn drew it out. I
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listened to that episode Walking on the beach when
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it was released I experienced over again just the
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way in which sharing that story raised my heart
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rate and truly was such a vulnerable act. And then
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to put it in a podcast for anyone to hear, oh my
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gosh, Autumn is the best. She's just the best.
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Listening to the way that she held that and drew
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out, I was learning from my own story. I mean,
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it's like what the best therapist might do. Like
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I'm sharing the story, but somehow like, she's
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helping me see so much more in it. I'm deeply
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grateful to Autumn for that one moment and for so
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many along this season. I should share that. After
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that episode came out, I did share it with Jon
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Bear Mitchell and said, I pray that I reflected
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this story in a way that honors you and our
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ongoing collegiality. He shared back with me that
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listening to that episode led him to listen to
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several more episodes. So that was really
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beautiful, this full circle relationality. All
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right, thank you. Thank you, Nicole.
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>> Peterson Toscano: This season began with the theme of world
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building, but it just kept moving through. Very
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practical at times and very deeply spiritual
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questions. So you have been part of the process
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from the beginning. What are you carrying from
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season four?
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: So I think I want to start reflecting on that
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episode around natural disasters and Katie Mears.
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The thing that comes to me on the regular is the
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way in which Katie talked about our little grinchy
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hearts having the possibility of growing a size
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bigger. I m do think that our like little grinchy
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hearts do grow. When we can do something together
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that's outside of our comfort zone. At the best,
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that's what disasters can be. It's literally
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dissolving the boundaries of what is known. Right?
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>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: Yeah.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: It doesn't mean we're going to hold on to doing
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that specific thing every day forever. But if we
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like let our hearts grow a size and our
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imaginations grow a size, we can do a different
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thing that is part of that transformation. We have
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a muscle to try a new thing and be changed by it.
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Even in tough situations. How might we approach
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this in a way that grows our heart a size larger?
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Actually, that happens all the time. It happens
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all the time in all kinds of situations of loss
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and struggle. Two years ago, my mother in law
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passed. There are little reminders, seasonal
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reminders that make me reflect on that ending. It
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was incredibly hard and the family grew incredibly
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close. I think our hearts got bigger for going
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through it. Now that's a loss. Many of our
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listeners will have had losses of significant
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loved ones. So to imagine the way in which loss
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can grow our hearts Larger, maybe even it's just a
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day to day kind of struggle observing something
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with a neighbor. It can grow our hearts a little
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larger. Especially, especially, especially when we
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get to live into being the sorts of humans I
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believe we were created to be, which is social,
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interconnected humans that do things with one
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another, reach out and hold a hand. And I think so
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often about the things that we're up against that
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separate us, that need us to actively practice
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that reaching out and that holding a hand.
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Peterson, you made this comment about our species
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being at war with the natural world. It makes me
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think about how two things are true, or maybe, a
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lot more than a lot more than two. But here's the
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two. In my neighborhood, I drive by a house where
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a child is very committed to the turtles that have
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decided to nest right next to the road on their
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property. They have put up all these signs, turtle
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crossing, slow down. Yeah, that's the human
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species too. And then I think about stories of
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young kids who take firecrackers and blow up
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frogs. And it's probably the same age of young
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person. One is setting up signs to protect turtles
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and the other is thinking, it's fun to blow up a
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creature. How is this possible? That this is both
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our species, But I just want to keep leaning into
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it is part of our species to care so, so much that
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we would set up signs and make sure the turtles
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can get to the other side safely.
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Aura's quote that we heard in the episode with
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Aura, she says she experiences people who are
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hungry for culture. Culture before it was eaten up
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by capitalism just resonates like, so strongly for
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me. This eaten up by capitalism way in which our,
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religions and our cultures have been tied up in
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something. I've been in a course recently where we
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kind of make a distinction between imperial
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Christianity and what we might be inspired by in
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the stories of Jesus. Why is there such a
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difference? I mean, something has seriously been
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eaten up. I have been just pursuing this question.
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One of the ways in which we've been doing that
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here in Maine is by asking some of our indigenous
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brothers and sisters to share with us their
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perspectives. Recently we had a Passamaquoddy
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language keeper named Dwayne Thoma join us for a
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program where he shared an indigenous perspective
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on the doctrine of discovery, which is capitalism
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eating up Christianity, capitalism and colonialism
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and the violent impulse eating up Christianity and
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causing so much harm. Duane, at the end of his
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presentation, he said, you know, I am not looking
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for left wing or right wing. He was referring to
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Politics. But he said, I need a bird with two
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strong wings.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: And I've been thinking about that bird imagery. We
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need a bird with two strong wings. We need it to
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have a large heart built through honesty and truth
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telling and suffering and loss and a, growing,
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growing heart. We need birds with heads high. When
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we hear these stories of the doctrine of
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discovery, they could easily leave us with our
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head tucked over in shame. But we have to find
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ways for our hearts to help us hold our heads high
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and then to find those other birds that want to
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form a V with us and to fly in unison together.
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That is the metaphor that I think is the culture
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of the visionary future that I want, want to lean
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into, that I long for. No more intergalactic blah
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over here. As you said, Peterson, this is us being
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ourselves in the best possible way.
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>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: Nicole, what you said about Rabbi Ora's quote
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about how people are hungry for culture before it
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was eaten up by capitalism. Oh, that got me
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thinking also about Tory's insistence on futures
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that are worth living for, futures that are worth
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fighting for to evade the intergalactic blah that
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Peterson has introduced us to. It makes me think
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about, like, who in those stories gets to decide,
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like, what culture looks like and our acceptance
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that there are just some things that will have to
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get sacrificed, or some people or some cultures or
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some traditions and rituals that will just have to
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be sacrificed in the name of the preservation of
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the great intergalactic blah blah. There's an
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insidious thread beneath that that says the things
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that make us so vibrant and lovely and diverse,
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those are going to have to go in order for us to
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maintain some kind of future civilization.
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>> Speaker F: Boo.
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>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: Yeah. It has not held true, like, read our history
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books or at least those that we can actually trust
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to tell the truth that just hasn't held true.
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I also want to, however, like, give us as a
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species a little bit of grace. Because I think
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that in hearing the wisdom of our guest, yes,
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there can be this sensation, or at least there was
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for me, of, dang it, like, whatever separation I
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feel from the more than human world and from my
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neighbors and community members and those who I
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see across the body of the bird to the other wing
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on like, my separation from those, like, that's my
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fault and I've done something terribly wrong to
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evoke this. And if listener you're feeling that, I
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invite you to have a little grace for yourself.
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Because the separation that we're experiencing is
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by design, to some degree. This is the
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condemnation that the powerful and the wealthy
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have concocted in order to make it easy to exploit
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and extract from land, from the more than human
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world and from humans. I gain a lot of my
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spiritual imagination these days also from what
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the more than human world is up to and has been up
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to. Not in a way that says I want to project human
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experiences and feelings onto these other species,
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but but in a sense that we're not that different
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and we're not that separate. For us to participate
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in the same economies of reciprocity or communal
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life the way that other life forms do is pretty
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natural. Recently I learned that there are times
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when trees are cut down and you see a stump and
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you imagine this tree is dead. In the meantime, it
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is being fed by other species and other trees
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around it to a point where something that looks
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like a tree can come out of that stump again. It
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doesn't have the ability on its own anymore as a
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stump to photosynthesize, to nourish itself, but
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it is still receiving nourishment from its
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neighbors because of perhaps reciprocity, maybe a
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sense that the world is better with this neighbor
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in it. Maybe out of something like love, I don't
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know.
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>> Peterson Toscano: Beautiful.
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>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: I do want to get to another voicemail. Our next
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voicemail comes from Michael, who responded to a
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theme that has appeared in the BTS Center's work
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before. It came again really powerfully through
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this season, too. What Michael is referring to.
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Peterson, you actually brought this up earlier,
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the call to be a good ancestor. Let's listen to
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this voicemail.
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>> Michael: This topic was perhaps first discussed in a BTS
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center online event with Sherry Mitchell, an
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Indigenous author and activist from the Penobscot
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Nation, and then again this season by Norma Wong,
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a Zen master. Both of these teachers spoke about
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the concept of being good ancestors, which struck
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me as a profound concept when I first heard it,
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and the impact of it still resonates with me as it
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sunk in. I thought that our Christian traditions
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didn't hold this idea. I couldn't recall hearing
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it in any sermons, but I was wrong. Using my
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computer's AI tool, I was reminded that the Bible
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does talk about God's covenant being for many
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generations and such, but being good ancestors
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seems to be a much more important, more fully
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developed, and more clearly articulated belief
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amongst Indigenous people. Think about how
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differently we would behave if we held this
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concept in our minds, the need to be good
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ancestors to those who will follow us. We're not
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separated from those who preceded us or those who
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will follow. I think Sherry and Norma are saying
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that we are deeply connected with many peoples
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across time. Norma asserts that we are connected
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with all creatures and the entire universe across
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the vastness of time. Sherry described time as
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more of a circle than a line, and we have
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responsibilities to them all. Don't let this idea
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pass as just a catchphrase. Stop and dwell on it.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: That was fun to listen to for me, especially
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because Michael is my father. And Peterson, maybe
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other than you, is a person who has been
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thoroughly impacted by climate change. He is a
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very devoted listener to this podcast. There was a
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day that he said, you know, I always thought of
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you as smart, but when did you become wise? Which
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is, like, an amazing thing to hear from a parent.
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>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: What a gift.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: But this message really touched me because my dad
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is often the one who comes home from church and
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says, okay, we were asked to slow down and reflect
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again. Really? I want to get to work. I want the M
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sermon to be about a piece of action. So here's my
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father taking in the wisdom of climate change and
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saying, don't just sit with this as a catchphrase.
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Really stop and dwell on it.
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>> Peterson Toscano: Yeah. And that's a really good reminder for this
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whole season. I mean, world building. It's not
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just a clever theme. Right. That we came up with.
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It really developed throughout the season, but
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what it really is is a way of asking what we owe
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to those who came before us, those who are here
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now and those who are yet to be born.
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>> Speaker F: Yeah.
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>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: it's asking us to stretch our imagination across
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time, too. So not just what do I want right now,
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but what kind of ancestor am I becoming right now?
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>> Peterson Toscano: Well, I'm loving these voicemails, and I'm so glad
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we received so many. We also heard from Katie, who
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shared something we always hope for with this
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podcast, that these conversations do not stay
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abstract, and we really try to make them
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practical. So they move into congregations,
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committees, preaching, literature, relationships,
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and decisions. So thank you, Katie, for this
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voicemail.
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>> Katie: Hey, Autumn. hi, Nicole. Thank you so much for all
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of the incredible conversations and incredible
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guests, this season, and also share two ways that
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this podcast has impacted me over this past year.
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So, the church community that I attend, has been
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working on solar panels. I'm on their, like,
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sustainability team in this push towards the vote.
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I was doing a lot of writing, liturgy, and
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preaching about kinship and sustainability, our
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connection to creation, pouring in eco theology
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resources, really hyping up this investment that I
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see as so aligned with our values. The solar panel
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vote passed, which was awesome. But in
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conversations with people in church and hearing a
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lot of their anxieties and fears about the future,
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particularly concerns about money and financial
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investments, I was imagining that there might be
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different concerns. I think just the ways that
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this podcast has helped to build my muscles of
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imagination and hope so strong, and it also has
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encouraged me that I need to support others in,
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you know, building those muscles, too. Solar
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panels are so clearly a, dream seed early on in my
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timeline that helps to create the clean, green,
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and just future that I envision for my community.
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This podcast help gives me tools to help others
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see that vision and expand their imaginations as
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well, that a better future is possible and we
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don't need to freeze or have these emotions lead
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to inaction, but that we can work together and
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have some really exciting things happen. So, yay,
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solar panels. The other thing that I wanted to
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share is that I really love the storytelling
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episodes from Convocation. I listened to Tyler's
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story with my grandmother. I call her Nonnie, and
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she has Parkinson's, which makes it harder to get
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outside and be outdoors these days. Listening to
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that really immersive soundscape with the waves
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and loon calls was really nostalgic. Beautiful way
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for us to connect and remember times together
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outside. So, thank you for creating spaces that
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cultivate hope and conversation and connection and
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imagination. I'm grateful for both of you.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Katie gives us such a beautiful example of world
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building in practical terms. In practice, a solar
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panel vote is practical. It's applied, it's
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financial, it's logistical, and it's also
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spiritual. It takes a community to imagine itself
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behaving differently.
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>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: Our executive director, Alan, often says that a
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budget is a moral document, and that's what that
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reminds me of. Yeah, I love, love, love that Katie
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calls solar panels a dream seed.
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>> Peterson Toscano: Yes.
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>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: You know who else uses this is Tory Stevens in the
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grist world. They invite us to nurture these dream
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seeds.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: So Katie came to a workshop with Tory. So I'm
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pretty sure all these amazing interconnections.
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I'm, pretty sure Katie's using that word because
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Tory introduced it to her.
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>> Speaker F: Nice.
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>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: great. Let all of these seeds. Dream seeds.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Yes.
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>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: So this dream seed phrase, I think, just carries a
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lot of this season. Right. So it's not just
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technologies and projects, and we're really
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talking about seeds of a future that people can
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begin to see and work toward together.
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>> Peterson Toscano: And Katie's also reminding us that the podcast
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isn't just about our head and ideas. It can become
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liturgy and preaching. A, conversation with a
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grandmother. You know, it's a stepping off point.
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It can be so much more. And that's what I loved
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about this season. I don't know, there were
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moments that I felt, particularly with the
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grounding exercises, that it was like being taken
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away and allowed to just kind of detach from all
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the stuff and experience something sacred,
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something grounded, that I found myself talking
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about later in the day.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: All right, this next voicemail comes from Peter in
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Littleton, New Hampshire. Peter's responding to
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the conversation that Autumn and I had about Katie
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Mears and disaster response, and especially to the
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moment in that conversation where we talk about
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how climate change can not only be a threat
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multiplier, but also an opportunity multiplier.
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>> Peter: I just wanted to call and say how much I
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appreciated the conversation between Autumn and
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Nicole about Katie Mears. What really struck me is
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how much I need driving up and down the road,
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which is when I tend to listen to climate change,
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to hear words of encouragement and to hear things
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like opportunity multiplier. A different view, a,
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ah, wider view, a longer view. I just know in my
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life, I know a lot of ways that it's easy to turn
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to what we don't have, what's falling apart, what
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is not going as we want it to, which is also true.
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And it's all the more reason why I need to see the
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challenges of today also as opportunities for
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change, for coming together, for new ways of being
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and wider ways of looking. So thank you for what
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you're doing and for the difference that it makes
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in my everyday life. So grateful. Thanks.
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>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: I really appreciate Peter's honesty in that. That,
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he doesn't say, don't look at what's falling
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apart. He's saying, yes, that is true. This is
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falling apart. And I still need a wider view.
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>> Peterson Toscano: And I'm loving yet another connection here because
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the first time I heard that phrase, how it's a
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threat multiplier, but also an opportunity
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multiplier, was Dr. Natasha DeJarnette. So I knew
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before the BTS center when I was working at
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Citizens Climate Lobby, and she said that publicly
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and said it on the podcast that I did for them. So
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I just like that that phrase is alive. I don't
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know if he heard it from her, but kind of all
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coming together there.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: And Peter and Natasha are both board members of
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the BTS center, so maybe this is all becoming a
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little too, like, internal circle. But it is
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amazing the way that these ideas flow among and
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between us.
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>> Peterson Toscano: Yeah. And how we, like, encourage and influence
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and inspire each other. Cross pollination.
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>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Yeah. It's the work of our relationship building
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and it's the work of this podcast to offer people
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a longer view while they are doing the very
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ordinary things that make up a, life. My podcast
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listening is when I'm driving somewhere to pick up
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my son. It's when I'm folding laundry, it's when
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I'm washing dishes, it's when I'm walking the
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dogs. Having these deep big perspectives while
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doing the day to day is sort of what it's all
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about.
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>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: Our next voicemail comes from Oliver. Oliver is
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responding to conversations about imagination,
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including the conversation with Tor Stevens about
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Thrutopia.
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>> Oliver: It reminded me of Joanna Macy's work on
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imagination. I just finished doing a book club
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with my local interfaith council where we read
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00:27:40,191 --> 00:27:43,191
Maci's book, Active Hope. Maci like the
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00:27:43,191 --> 00:27:45,511
conversation you all had. She talks about how
530
00:27:45,511 --> 00:27:48,961
important it is to imagine a better world. She
531
00:27:48,961 --> 00:27:52,321
challenged us to look at the world we see around
532
00:27:52,321 --> 00:27:55,601
us and consider that everything we see right now,
533
00:27:55,601 --> 00:27:59,001
today in the world is a product of somebody else's
534
00:27:59,001 --> 00:28:01,641
imagination. She challenged us to think about the
535
00:28:01,641 --> 00:28:04,720
world we want to see that's better. And to trust
536
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,681
that when we imagine it, it unlocks hope and
537
00:28:07,681 --> 00:28:10,281
motivation to work for that world and work for the
538
00:28:10,281 --> 00:28:13,921
change that we want to see. I work with Ignatian
539
00:28:13,921 --> 00:28:15,841
spirituality. I'm a retreat director and a
540
00:28:15,841 --> 00:28:17,731
spiritual director. And we often talk about the
541
00:28:17,731 --> 00:28:20,751
importance of imagination as a spirit practice.
542
00:28:21,071 --> 00:28:24,111
Listening to Autumn and Nicole's conversation on
543
00:28:24,431 --> 00:28:27,111
daily practices and imagination reminded me of
544
00:28:27,111 --> 00:28:30,391
this prayer of Joseph Whelan that circulates a lot
545
00:28:30,391 --> 00:28:32,511
in Ignatian circles. So I'll leave you with this.
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00:28:33,151 --> 00:28:35,471
What you are in love with, what seizes your
547
00:28:35,471 --> 00:28:39,471
imagination will affect everything. It will decide
548
00:28:39,631 --> 00:28:40,391
what will get you
549
00:28:40,391 --> 00:28:42,191
>> Oliver: out of bed in the morning, what
550
00:28:42,191 --> 00:28:45,191
>> Oliver: you do with your evenings, how you spend your
551
00:28:45,191 --> 00:28:49,381
weekends, what you read, whom you know, and what
552
00:28:49,381 --> 00:28:52,821
breaks your heart, what amazes you with joy and
553
00:28:52,821 --> 00:28:55,861
gratitude. Thank you so much for the work you're
554
00:28:55,861 --> 00:28:57,741
doing and keep up the great work. Bye bye.
555
00:28:59,261 --> 00:29:03,301
>> Rev Nicole Diroff: That question, what seizes your imagination? Feels
556
00:29:03,301 --> 00:29:06,061
like one of the deepest questions of this season.
557
00:29:06,541 --> 00:29:09,341
Because once something has seized our imagination,
558
00:29:09,981 --> 00:29:12,951
it starts to shape our choices. How we spend our
559
00:29:12,951 --> 00:29:16,231
time, where we put our energy, and the type of
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00:29:16,391 --> 00:29:18,471
future we are building today.
561
00:29:19,271 --> 00:29:21,951
>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: That feels like the right place to gather up the
562
00:29:21,951 --> 00:29:22,791
season's themes.
563
00:29:23,751 --> 00:29:26,951
>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Before we move into next steps, we want to name
564
00:29:27,271 --> 00:29:30,311
some of the themes that kept surfacing across the
565
00:29:30,311 --> 00:29:30,631
season.
566
00:29:31,031 --> 00:29:34,191
>> Peterson Toscano: Yeah, let's do it round robin style. So for me,
567
00:29:34,191 --> 00:29:37,151
one of them adaptation, not only as infrastructure
568
00:29:37,151 --> 00:29:39,831
but as spiritual and communal practice.
569
00:29:40,641 --> 00:29:41,011
>> Speaker C: Okay.
570
00:29:41,011 --> 00:29:45,171
>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: for me, imagination, not as an escape, but as
571
00:29:45,171 --> 00:29:45,971
responsibility.
572
00:29:47,011 --> 00:29:51,411
>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Grief and honesty in that grief and solidarity.
573
00:29:51,571 --> 00:29:53,331
Community in that grief.
574
00:29:53,811 --> 00:29:58,571
>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: Ancestors, the more than human world as kin and
575
00:29:58,571 --> 00:30:01,811
teacher and neighbor and participant in our lives
576
00:30:01,891 --> 00:30:04,531
and us in their spiritual leadership.
577
00:30:05,091 --> 00:30:08,991
>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Wise and creative individuals who know how to
578
00:30:08,991 --> 00:30:11,311
cultivate honest and caring communities.
579
00:30:11,791 --> 00:30:13,551
>> Peterson Toscano: Yeah, and you're listening right now and we're
580
00:30:13,551 --> 00:30:15,631
aware of you. Thank you for what you do.
581
00:30:15,631 --> 00:30:16,111
>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Yeah.
582
00:30:16,271 --> 00:30:18,751
>> Peterson Toscano: And that may be one of the clearest invitations of
583
00:30:18,751 --> 00:30:22,431
season four to become communities that can tell
584
00:30:22,431 --> 00:30:25,511
the truth, feel what is real, imagine what is
585
00:30:25,511 --> 00:30:28,111
possible, and practice what comes next.
586
00:30:36,291 --> 00:30:39,011
>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: As always, we want to close with some next steps.
587
00:30:39,331 --> 00:30:42,731
So this time the invitation is simple. We would
588
00:30:42,731 --> 00:30:45,171
love for you to share this season.
589
00:30:45,731 --> 00:30:49,491
>> Rev Nicole Diroff: If this episode or any of the episodes from season
590
00:30:49,491 --> 00:30:53,611
four made you think of someone, please share the
591
00:30:53,611 --> 00:30:57,691
episode with them. A personal note from you is the
592
00:30:57,691 --> 00:31:00,851
most powerful way for your friend, colleague or
593
00:31:00,851 --> 00:31:03,491
family member to discover this podcast.
594
00:31:03,811 --> 00:31:06,571
>> Peterson Toscano: You can also host a listening party and this can
595
00:31:06,571 --> 00:31:11,011
be in person or online. Choose an episode, gather
596
00:31:11,011 --> 00:31:13,491
a few people from your congregation, family,
597
00:31:13,571 --> 00:31:16,011
community group, you know, whatever, and just
598
00:31:16,011 --> 00:31:16,691
listen together.
599
00:31:17,091 --> 00:31:20,611
>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Each episode comes with a discussion guide so you
600
00:31:20,611 --> 00:31:22,971
don't need to create your own curriculum. You can
601
00:31:22,971 --> 00:31:25,571
use the questions, the activities, the suggested
602
00:31:25,571 --> 00:31:29,041
next steps to help your group reflect and respond.
603
00:31:29,521 --> 00:31:32,001
>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: Some other ideas. You can put an episode in a
604
00:31:32,001 --> 00:31:35,281
church bulletin or a newsletter or community email
605
00:31:35,281 --> 00:31:38,241
or Google group. You can share a link with a
606
00:31:38,241 --> 00:31:41,321
clergy colleague or lay leader, a teacher, an
607
00:31:41,321 --> 00:31:43,921
artist, an organizer, someone who's just trying to
608
00:31:43,921 --> 00:31:45,041
make sense of this moment.
609
00:31:45,441 --> 00:31:47,801
>> Peterson Toscano: There's also people looking for this like they
610
00:31:47,801 --> 00:31:49,841
don't know what they're looking for because they
611
00:31:49,841 --> 00:31:52,411
don't know it exists. And you can help them by
612
00:31:52,411 --> 00:31:54,971
posting a link to an episode in a Reddit
613
00:31:54,971 --> 00:31:58,891
discussion. A Slack community Discord server,
614
00:31:59,211 --> 00:32:01,731
which is a funny thing. Discord. We, we just set
615
00:32:01,731 --> 00:32:04,891
up a Quaker discord group, which Quakers really
616
00:32:04,891 --> 00:32:07,611
shouldn't have. Discord. No, we really had to
617
00:32:07,611 --> 00:32:09,651
explain to some of the Quakers, it's like, no, it
618
00:32:09,651 --> 00:32:12,851
is not actual discord, but, you know, but like a
619
00:32:12,851 --> 00:32:15,131
Facebook group, you know, there are people who are
620
00:32:15,131 --> 00:32:17,391
looking for this. How will they know unless, you
621
00:32:17,391 --> 00:32:19,851
tell them? and so wherever people are talking
622
00:32:19,851 --> 00:32:22,931
about climate or faith grief community, it doesn't
623
00:32:22,931 --> 00:32:24,611
have to be just about climate because as you know
624
00:32:24,611 --> 00:32:27,571
from listening, this encompasses so much of life.
625
00:32:27,731 --> 00:32:31,251
>> Rev Nicole Diroff: And don't forget the videos. You can find full
626
00:32:31,251 --> 00:32:34,371
length video episodes, short clips and bonus
627
00:32:34,371 --> 00:32:37,171
material on the BTS Center's YouTube page.
628
00:32:37,891 --> 00:32:40,371
Consider playing a short video during a Ah, class.
629
00:32:40,531 --> 00:32:43,571
Or in a worship service, a meeting or community
630
00:32:43,571 --> 00:32:44,131
gathering.
631
00:32:44,701 --> 00:32:47,501
>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: And this hot tip goes out to everyone who has ever
632
00:32:47,501 --> 00:32:50,541
texted me a podcast episode in the past with no
633
00:32:50,541 --> 00:32:54,781
context. When you share, tell people why not just
634
00:32:54,941 --> 00:32:59,021
this or here's a podcast. But this conversation
635
00:32:59,021 --> 00:33:01,941
helped me think differently about adaptation or
636
00:33:01,941 --> 00:33:05,541
imagination, or how it takes being a neighbor to
637
00:33:05,541 --> 00:33:07,621
have neighborhoods. Or this episode gave me
638
00:33:07,621 --> 00:33:11,041
language for climate grief. Or this guest helped
639
00:33:11,041 --> 00:33:13,281
me to imagine the future in a totally new way.
640
00:33:13,361 --> 00:33:15,121
>> Peterson Toscano: Yeah, you need to listen to Ophelia because
641
00:33:15,121 --> 00:33:17,561
Ophelia knows what she's talking about. She has
642
00:33:17,561 --> 00:33:20,521
done such a brilliant job this season. It's been
643
00:33:20,521 --> 00:33:23,321
such a joy working with you, Ophelia. and you
644
00:33:23,321 --> 00:33:26,201
know, just knowing that this great work that we're
645
00:33:26,201 --> 00:33:29,001
doing is getting out there, seeing those clips pop
646
00:33:29,001 --> 00:33:31,881
up in my YouTube and there they are. It's just so,
647
00:33:31,881 --> 00:33:35,441
it's so exciting. So thank you for that great work
648
00:33:35,441 --> 00:33:37,121
and modeling it so beautifully.
649
00:33:38,371 --> 00:33:40,451
>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: Thanks Peters. It's a joy to work with you too.
650
00:33:40,451 --> 00:33:40,561
>> Speaker F: Aw.
651
00:33:40,561 --> 00:33:45,221
>> Rev Nicole Diroff: this has been just a big old love fest. And now a,
652
00:33:45,171 --> 00:33:45,691
look ahead.
653
00:33:47,691 --> 00:33:50,771
>> Peterson Toscano: Yes, there will be a season five of climate
654
00:33:50,771 --> 00:33:51,131
change.
655
00:33:51,211 --> 00:33:51,931
>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Woohoo.
656
00:33:52,891 --> 00:33:57,051
>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: Season five will begin in March 2027, so mark your
657
00:33:57,051 --> 00:34:00,051
calendars that entire month and Autumn Brown and
658
00:34:00,051 --> 00:34:01,971
Nicole Ziroff will be back with us for that
659
00:34:01,971 --> 00:34:02,251
season.
660
00:34:02,901 --> 00:34:05,861
>> Rev Nicole Diroff: In the meantime, we are going to share episodes
661
00:34:05,861 --> 00:34:09,101
from other podcasts that we love and listen to all
662
00:34:09,101 --> 00:34:11,461
the time and we want to share with you.
663
00:34:11,701 --> 00:34:11,871
>> Speaker F: Yeah.
664
00:34:11,871 --> 00:34:15,021
>> Peterson Toscano: Ah, think of it as a podcast swap season. We're
665
00:34:15,021 --> 00:34:16,981
going to feature episodes from some of our
666
00:34:16,981 --> 00:34:19,741
favorite podcasts and those folks will share one
667
00:34:19,741 --> 00:34:21,711
of, our episodes with their listeners.
668
00:34:22,191 --> 00:34:24,791
>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: So stay subscribed and there will be more to hear
669
00:34:24,791 --> 00:34:26,351
before season five begins.
670
00:34:30,751 --> 00:34:33,551
>> Peterson Toscano: Thank you for listening to Climate Change, a
671
00:34:33,551 --> 00:34:35,371
podcast from the BTS Center.
672
00:34:35,371 --> 00:34:38,811
>> Rev Nicole Diroff: The BTS center is located in beautiful Portland,
673
00:34:38,811 --> 00:34:42,131
Maine. We offer programs and resources for
674
00:34:42,131 --> 00:34:45,491
spiritual leaders, faith communities and all who
675
00:34:45,491 --> 00:34:49,011
are seeking to live with courage, compassion and
676
00:34:49,011 --> 00:34:51,531
imagination in a climate changed world.
677
00:34:51,851 --> 00:34:54,811
>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: You can find transcripts, discussion guides, full
678
00:34:54,811 --> 00:34:57,811
length video episodes, short videos and bonus
679
00:34:57,811 --> 00:35:01,341
material through the BTS Center's website and our
680
00:35:01,341 --> 00:35:02,101
YouTube page.
681
00:35:02,421 --> 00:35:04,621
>> Peterson Toscano: Climate change is produced by me, Peterson
682
00:35:04,621 --> 00:35:07,621
Toscano. Our season four hosts were autumn Brown
683
00:35:07,621 --> 00:35:08,901
and Nicole Deroff.
684
00:35:08,901 --> 00:35:11,461
>> Rev Nicole Diroff: Many thanks to our wonderful guests this season.
685
00:35:12,021 --> 00:35:16,561
Tory Stevens, Katie Mears, Norma Wong, Rabbi Ora,
686
00:35:16,511 --> 00:35:20,551
Nitkin Kainer, Frances Weller, whose voices helped
687
00:35:20,551 --> 00:35:23,911
shape a season of world building. Stay connected.
688
00:35:24,231 --> 00:35:28,831
You can email US podcast the btscenter.org we
689
00:35:28,831 --> 00:35:30,271
really do love hearing from you.
690
00:35:31,471 --> 00:35:35,391
Now as we close this episode and this season we
691
00:35:35,391 --> 00:35:38,351
turn to the words associated with Julian of
692
00:35:38,351 --> 00:35:41,911
Norwich, the 14th century English mystic who lived
693
00:35:41,911 --> 00:35:44,911
through plague, upheaval, and deep uncertainty.
694
00:35:45,391 --> 00:35:48,901
>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: Julian wrote, all shall be well, and all, shall be
695
00:35:48,901 --> 00:35:52,701
well, and all manner of things shall be well.
696
00:35:55,391 --> 00:35:58,631
>> Peterson Toscano: Not as denial and not as an escape, but as a
697
00:35:58,631 --> 00:36:02,151
stubborn sacred trust spoken from inside a
698
00:36:02,151 --> 00:36:02,911
troubled world.
699
00:36:04,431 --> 00:36:07,471
>> Rev Nicole Diroff: So may we become people who do not look away.
700
00:36:07,951 --> 00:36:11,071
>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: May we become people who can imagine beyond
701
00:36:11,071 --> 00:36:12,911
despair and beyond denial.
702
00:36:12,991 --> 00:36:16,031
>> Peterson Toscano: May we become good ancestors to those who will
703
00:36:16,031 --> 00:36:17,311
inherit what we do.
704
00:36:17,951 --> 00:36:20,191
>> Rev Nicole Diroff: May our community, communities learn to hold grief
705
00:36:20,271 --> 00:36:22,191
without being consumed by it.
706
00:36:22,991 --> 00:36:26,191
>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: May our stories make room for courage, kinship,
707
00:36:26,351 --> 00:36:28,111
repair and joy.
708
00:36:28,431 --> 00:36:31,511
>> Peterson Toscano: And in this climate changed world, may we keep
709
00:36:31,511 --> 00:36:33,311
building what love requires.
710
00:36:33,631 --> 00:36:36,591
>> Ophelia Hu Kinney: All shall be well, and all shall be well.
711
00:36:36,751 --> 00:36:39,391
>> Peterson Toscano: And all manner of things shall be well.
