Integrated Dance with Meredith Aleigha Wells

Nicole Zimmerer:
0:16
Welcome to Break A Leg! A podcast that explores the relationship between disability in the arts. I'm your host, Nicole Zimmerer, and on today's episode our guest is Meredith Aleigha Wells, actor, singer, dancer and writer for the theatre. And I just want to welcome you all to our very first episode, I'm super excited that you're all here. And welcome Meredith, thank you for being our inaugural guest.

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
0:42
Hi, thanks. I'm honored. Thanks for having me.

Nicole Zimmerer:
0:46
Meredith, why don't you um, well, I already did the the blanket introduction, but why don't you tell the good people of the world, uh, who you are, what you do and why the fuck you're here?

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
1:00
Well, my name is Meredith like Nicole said, I use they/them pronouns. And I am originally from Massachusetts, currently based in Chicago, and I've been performing essentially my whole life. I act and sing and dance sometimes together, sometimes separately, depending on the project. And as a disabled artist, I've also just really discovered that when opportunities aren't knocking on your door, the best thing you can do is to create your own and I've kind of fallen in love with writing in that capacity.

Nicole Zimmerer:
1:32
Cool. Fantastic. Awesome. So Meredith, what, what is your disability? If you don't mind me asking?

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
1:40
Yeah, no, none at all. I have something called postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome. It's quite a mouthful, so people just call it POTS. It's a form of dysautonomia. And what that means is that basically anything that generally happens automatically in one's body can be affected. The kind of cornerstone of POTS is when I stand instead of the blood going down to my feet and back up to my brain, it just kind of pools in my lower body. And so the there's a lack of blood flow to my brain every time I stand and then my heart just like tries to overcompensate and beats really fast when I stand and that can cause some people and I'm one of those people like in the 30% of POTS people who faint because of that.

Nicole Zimmerer:
2:30
That sounds like so much fun. Do you have a fainting chair?

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
2:35
A fainting chair?

Nicole Zimmerer:
2:36
Yeah.

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
2:37
What do you mean?

Nicole Zimmerer:
2:38
I think it's a piece of furniture. And it's called like, it's not really like officially a fainting chair. But it's, it's called a fainting chair, because that's what all of the all of the ladies of the 1800s would faint on this chair when they were given

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
2:54
Swooning chairs?

Nicole Zimmerer:
2:56
Yeah, I should get you one of those. I really should.

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
3:00
I don't have one of those. But now I think you've convinced me that I need one.

Nicole Zimmerer:
3:05
I think you do. I really think you do. So let's get right into it. Our first segment is Spilling the Disabili-Tea, where we take a look at historical or current events or share some interesting facts relating to the disabled community. Today's fun fact is the fact that disability is what I like to call an O-positive minority in which anybody can be disabled. You can be you know, any ethnicity, any race, any gender, any sexuality, any religion and you could still be disabled because everyone in their lifetime will become disabled at some point.

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
3:48
Sorry, my neighbors have decided that now is a great time for some construction. Sorry.

Nicole Zimmerer:
4:00
Are they building like a castle or like a Fortress of Solitude?

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
4:05
I mean, I'm assuming it's construction. I mean, they might have just got like a pet a pet woodpecker? Like, I'm not really sure.

Nicole Zimmerer:
4:11
Oh.

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
4:12
I'm so sorry.

Nicole Zimmerer:
4:13
I hope they're having fun. Like I hope they're having a good time. Like, they deserve it. Everybody deserves a good time in the pandemic. So, how to explain that everybody will become disabled at some point? Well, if you're really really lucky, you won't become disabled, like truly disabled. Until you're like an old person. You know?

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
4:36
Yeah, I wasn't disabled until I was 18. So yeah, it just, it can hit anyone at any time doesn't. Even when you think you're healthy. So

Nicole Zimmerer:
4:49
yeah, that's I hate to start out with such a bright fun fact for you guys. But um, yeah, have fun with that! What was that like, by the way?

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
5:06
Not being disabled and then being disabled?

Nicole Zimmerer:
5:09
I mean, I don't know, I've been this way since birth. So

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
5:14
Yeah, totally. I mean, I think that's like, been a really big thing, just accepting that, like, you know, this illness is chronic and going to probably last forever. And yeah, I think at the very beginning of becoming disabled, there was a lot of mourning with my not ill self. And I really resonated with, you know, terms like differently abled, and, like, I don't know, just phrases like, you know, putting the ability in disability, like almost like really like corny kind of like catchphrases that just like sugarcoat disability in my opinion. And there was really like that journey to like really owning my identity as a disabled person. But I think there's a lot of how do I phrase this almost hope that maybe one day you'll stop being disabled when you first become disabled after not being disabled for so long? versus like, when you're just born with a disability, you're like, Oh, well, this is just the way it is.

Nicole Zimmerer:
6:18
I think, um, I mean, have you had like, experience with disability before your diagnosis? Or was it pretty much vanilla? Like, beyond grandparents like me?

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
6:34
I had a friend who I did choir with who was blind, but that was, I think, the only disability that I was really around before I became disabled.

Nicole Zimmerer:
6:48
Yeah. And how, how has your life like? Like, how has your life changed? And how is it like, has it like blossomed, since you've like found the disabled community? Or like, has it pretty much stayed the same?

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
7:06
Um, I think my connections with people are really different now. You know, I think I have obviously a lot more disabled friends and deaf friends, Hard of Hearing friends and things like that than I did beforehand. And I enjoy having friends with disabilities and friends who don't, I think there's something to be said about people who just get it, you know, and so I really hold those relationships close. And it's just been really fun to not only meet a lot of people in disabled community, but also to find people in disabled community who have similar interests. Because sometimes I feel like people just think it's like, oh, like, you're disabled. That's like, that's like all you are, you know me. And so it's like, nice to meet people who have you have relationships beyond just being disabled. So like, those are my favorites.

Nicole Zimmerer:
8:05
Society is so unwelcoming to disabled people where like, disabled people are constantly like, isolated from the rest of society. You know, and, and that is why, like, a lot of houses are not accessible. And when your body gets old, and they can't go upstairs, then what do you do with grandma and grandpa? You you send them to a home where they have ramps, and they have walkers, and they have doors big enough to accommodate a wheelchair. And they have constant care, which is great. But, um, it's great that we have like specialized care facilities, but like at the end of the day, why can't your house just be on ground level? And why can't we have ramps instead of stairs? I mean, stairs aren't even that pretty look at most of the time. Most of the time, they're just concrete blocks. And I'm like, I don't get it. I don't, I don't get, I don't get the hype.

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
9:02
Yeah, I was definitely way more hyped when I went into an old boss of mines house. And they have this like really extravagant elevator in their house. And I just thought it was the coolest thing. But like when you think about it's like, why do we act like people don't have disabled friends?

Nicole Zimmerer:
9:17
Right.

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
9:17
Like, why do we make so many houses and domestic, just like architecture inaccessible? It doesn't make sense. Like, why don't we just universally design everything?

Nicole Zimmerer:
9:27
Yeah, I remember going to grad school and like, they had like, in my dorm, they had like a roll-in shower. And I remember being like, "Oh my god, a roll-in shower. I'm living the dream. I'm living my dream with a roll-in shower." Whenever I take the BuzzFeed quizzes like pick your perfect house, and we'll tell you what Marvel superhero you are. Like I always, whenever I get to like the bathroom or the bedrooms, I'm always like, okay, so which one has this like the walk in shower, which one has like a lower bed frame? Because we have to be realistic when we're doing the BuzzFeed quizzes. I can't help it, you know? Yeah, I mean, that's what cripple culture is really, being like totally realistic when you want to find out who your soulmate is from Riverdale or Teen Wolf or whatever. Meredith because you have experienced both sides of the of the coin, so to speak about, you know, being non-disabled, and then becoming disabled. How do you think that impacts the way you you view disability, and the advocacy and your art?

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
10:43
I think when I first became disabled, I realized really quickly, or maybe not realized, but I questioned whether or not you know, theater was something that I should still pursue. I did a lot of other facets of theater besides performing to kind of like, test the waters about things where my disability didn't matter as much versus on stage. Like, it felt like it mattered all the time. I think in my work, I was able to really see the stark difference of how I was treated as a performer before my disability and after. So for example, I felt like I had people who are really rooting and cheering on, you know, my career path and supporting me as an artist, casting you shows being really supportive of everything I was doing really being helpful. And then I felt like I became disabled and everyone just kind of, or I shouldn't say everyone, I this is more coming from like a professor like standpoint, and like people like in my

Nicole Zimmerer:
11:47
Your academic life?

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
11:48
Yeah, my academic life. And that's not to say that all my professors were like this, that's definitely not the case. But I felt like I was being cast and things. And then when I became disabled, I wasn't being casting things anymore. And I really became aware of the power of being able to create your own opportunity, because when everyone just didn't want to cast me was like, well, no one's gonna cast me like, I'm gonna create my own stuff. And that's like, how I ended up writing my one woman musical. So I think knowing both sides, it became really apparent when something was me just like not maybe doing audition really well, versus like, knowing Oh, no, this is definitely about my disability.

Nicole Zimmerer:
12:33
Right. Right. Yeah. It's really hard to, to know whether you just had a bad audition, or if they won't actually, like, tell you, Oh, we don't know how to accommodate you correctly, so we're just not going to cast you.

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
12:52
Yeah, I would agree. I think in the audition, circumstances, it's a lot different. Versus, you know, when someone's just supporting you in general, and class and things like that, and then all of a sudden, like, they're just not taking as much interest in you. It's like, Okay, well, what's changed between last semester and this semester, the only thing that's changed is that I'm now disabled. So I think I know how people treated me when I wasn't disabled. And I became very frustrated by that. And that's what really kind of fueled my fire. And I ended up also in college, because of the lack of accessibility in like, at my school, I started a student coalition called What the FAC, F-A-C for the Fine Arts Center. That's what everyone like, called it. And we made this video of me and my friend, Sophia and Emma, they filmed me going through the entire fine arts that are in my wheelchair to really highlight how inaccessible it was. And we would do campaigns like that, and just, you know, going from being able to access everything to not being able to physically access everything that's just really like lit by fire. And that's, I would say, like, where my activism and my advocacy, especially, like, you know, about accessibility and disability really started.

Nicole Zimmerer:
14:06
Yeah, that that sounds super awesome. I especially, I love the name What the FAC, I think that's great. Um, yeah, I mean, it's, I don't know what it's like to like, have my whole world turned upside down, because this is the way it's done for me. Um, but it's really, really interesting. When I hear my friends who are like, who break their legs or sprained their ankle, they're like, "This is what you live with, for all day, every day for 26 years?" and I'm like, "Yep, this is what I lived with. And it sucks, doesn't it? So you should really help me." Um, but hey, I get great parking, so I'm good. Um, so today we are going to talk more specifically about dance and your career as a disabled dancer, which I'm really excited about. Um, so you've, how long have you been the dancing, Meredith?

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
15:02
Um, so I've been dancing in like a lot of different contexts, so I generally never know how to answer this question, but I'll do my best. So I danced when I was really little. And I stopped for a little bit. And then I've been doing musical theater since I was 13. So I have danced in that context for a really long time. And I have been dancing in my wheelchair. And around that time is when I really started getting into concert dance. And I was taking class and you know, ballet tap jazz, that kind of thing in college and a little beforehand. But since I was 18, I've been more involved in the concert dance world, and dancing in my wheelchair. And so yeah, that long.

Nicole Zimmerer:
15:49
So you're involved a lot with physically integrated dance, and can you kind of dive deeper into that world?

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
15:58
Yeah, so I would say that, like, I've been doing musical theater, as well as concert dance, since probably college, and I joined a physically integrated dance company following graduating from UMass Amherst. And I was with them in different capacities for about two years. Yeah, physically integrated dance, for those who don't know what it is, it's basically dance that integrates disabled and able bodied dancers in one space. And there's not many of these kinds of dance companies in the country. And they're popping up more and more definitely, but they're still pretty few and far between. and something that I've just kind of noticed going into it, I would say that I have a fairly different perspective on physically integrated dance, just as someone who one I wasn't disabled, like my whole life and two, I was in musical theater and continuing to do musical theater when I first became disabled, and there was no one at least where I was also in a wheelchair. So I was always the only person in a wheelchair, and just kind of trying to adapt to non-disabled people. And then when I joined a physically integrated dance company, all of a sudden, there were other people like me in the space. And that was very different. I was given basically some translations to the movement that was being given, which was something that was very new to me, versus when I was in school, and I was dancing in musical theater contexts, or any other dance context outside of this company. I was trying, I was always doing that on my own. It wasn't given to me. It wasn't always given to me at the physical integrated company, I like should preface that. But yeah, it was like a totally new experience of people like doing something that was like really catered towards me. Like they really knew what to do with me and my mobility and my movement in a wheelchair. And that was something completely new. And it made dance so accessible in that way. And that was something that was really appealing to me, which is why I took the job.

Nicole Zimmerer:
18:11
You said something about translation. And I just want to know what you meant by that. In terms of like, dance vocabulary.

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
18:20
Oh, yeah. So translating, like, some people might call it like, adapting, I generally call it translation, just because like, the way that I think about it is that in the way that you know, for every English word, there's a Spanish word. For me, for every able bodied movement, I feel as though there is, you know, the my equivalent sitting in my wheelchair, um, translation of that. So it's like its own set of vocabulary. So I know that every time someone does a plie, to bend, you know, their plie might be in their legs, but like my plie every single time is going to be in my arms. And I do pretty much the same thing. Every single time, at least in class. Not always in choreography, but in class, I generally do this. That's my dog Scout, my service dog.

Nicole Zimmerer:
19:13
I love Scout.

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
19:14
Yeah, so I

Nicole Zimmerer:
19:15
Hi Scout!

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
19:17
In class, I generally do the same movement in my movement vocabulary. Does that make sense?

Nicole Zimmerer:
19:23
Yes, yes.

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
19:25
So whenever I'm in class, I have, you know, my disabled vocabulary of movement. And then also like, still in the back of my brain, I have, you know, the more traditional like ballet, like technique, kind of vocabulary as well as just other vocabulary that I still have it in my brain for being non-disabled. It's just translating from what I used to know to what I know now, when I see it in front of me.

Nicole Zimmerer:
19:54
That's awesome. No, I really love the term translation because I, well, I like that term more than adapting, especially for dance because adapting makes it feel like, you know, it's not less than but like there is that, you know, stigma of like, "Oh, we have to adapt this for you," when honestly, you just have to, it's a different language for non-disabled people and disabled people, but it's the same amount of like effort and technique or expression for each language, so to speak.

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
20:28
Yeah, I think like when I think of like, adapting or modifying, like, you might hear in like a workout class, like, when do you hear modification? It's generally when there's something really hard. They're like, "Oh, this is too much like, do this modification," like modifications always just like the easier version of whatever they're doing generally. So I feel like translating it, like you're saying, yeah, it's like, it's the on-par equal-to just in a different language versus, you know, I think adapting and modifying have this stigma of being less than like you said.

Nicole Zimmerer:
21:00
Yeah.

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
21:01
And then going off of translation, I would say there's two different schools of thought for translation, there's the school of thought that the equity in dance comes from there being a set technique. And that set technique is kind of like the disabled equivalent of like ballet terminology almost. And so that kind of comes from the idea that you would never tell a non-disabled dancer like, "Oh, just do whatever feels best to you." Versus that's like, what happens to disabled dancers a lot, like people don't know what to do with them, like instructors, and they're just like, "Oh, do whatever, like, you know, works for you," versus all the other students in the class, they're giving corrections. So when you give them a set technique, that makes it so that they're able to have an equivalent and have an equivalent to be critiqued on and to be given notes during class. The other school of thought is kind of that, one, we should just kind of like break down the whole like, system of, you know, technique and dance anyways, because everybody is different. And I think that school of thought really has an emphasis on the fact of technique is really just something that is repetitive, something that you repeat. So if you are, so let's say that, like I was saying that I always do, plies like to bend like with my arms. But like maybe that bend is in someone's like chest, if like they couldn't move their arms didn't have arms, something like that. So if that person is working on that skill, every single day, they're working on that bend every single day like that is innately going to become technique, like over time with repetition, and they're going to become really good at that skill. And so that's kind of the two schools of thought on translating movement and technique. And, you know, I'm not saying that one is better than the other, I think there is a time and a place for both. And I think that giving dancers, the ability to explore different translations of movement is really important. But you know, in the context of choreography, or, you know, if you're the only disabled person in a class, like, you know, different schools of thoughts are going to work best at different times.

Nicole Zimmerer:
23:24
Right, right. Exactly. And do you have any theories on why there's a lack of representation in the dance community when it comes to different bodies and different, like you said that there are physically integrated dance companies are popping up more and more, but they're still few and far between? And do you have any theories on why there's a lack of representation in the dance community for disabled dancers or performers?

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
23:52
Yeah, I have a lot of theories. My research in college was actually on the presence of disability and dance. So I have some thoughts. A few thoughts that I have are that we definitely support really young dancers in doing, disabled dancers, in doing dance as a hobby. But once it gets to that point, where it's like, almost college age, and we're like, "Hey, Mom, Dad, like I want to do this for a living," like, all of a sudden, we're like, "oh, whoa, pump the brakes." And I don't really know why this is maybe it's because you know, there's that whole idea of like, if you can see it, you can be it and we're not seeing a lot of it, so how are parents going to believe that like, you know, little Johnny can do it. Um, and this is like not to rag on like parents of disabled people or anything like that, but it's just something that I've noticed and like, anecdotally, I've you know, heard from a lot of my disabled peers who pursued different things. Some of them wanted to pursue dance and never did. I know a lot of people who are in wheelchairs who pursued musical theater degrees in which the schools were like, "We need to talk about the dance credits." And either the person really had to advocate for themselves and got dance classes, or in some cases, they, they switched out the dance credits for more acting or singing credits, and they just never got dance training because they were in a wheelchair. So there's definitely like a lack of support in that transition from hobby to career path,

Nicole Zimmerer:
25:31
Professional

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
25:32
Yeah. And then some other reasons that I feel that there is a lack of presence of disability in the dance community is because of physical barriers. So there are so many theaters and rehearsal spaces that aren't physically accessible. So especially if you are someone who is like living in, you know, a small town, the likelihood that the dance studio in your town is going to be accessible, like, isn't very high. It's like we were saying before, where, you know, not every establishment is made to be accessible. We don't think about you know, having disabled friends, we don't think about having, you know, disabled people coming into a dance studio, it's like, not the first thing that a lot of people think about. So we don't make the space accessible. I can, I can just say that, like, as someone who auditions a lot, I mean, I call theaters and I say, "Hey, I was just wondering, like, if your place is accessible," you know, like, I don't, I don't wanna waste my time, so like, I call them ahead of time. And they're like, "Oh, yeah, like, we have like ramps, like there's a whole disabled like seating section in the audience, da-da-da, we have all the hearing, like amplification and all that stuff." And I'm like, "Oh, no, no, I'm talking about like backstage, like, I'm actually interested in auditioning for your season." And so we can imagine making things accessible for people to watch art, but for some reason, there's like this disconnect of like, a disabled person being on the other side. And there's this lack of physical access.

Nicole Zimmerer:
27:08
Right, right.

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
27:09
And, yeah, I even found this when I was on tour a lot, there would be things that just weren't totally accessible. Or, you know, there's been tons of shows that I've been in where, you know, I had to deal with a step to get like, into the dressing room, or to get into the building, or, you know, the ramp is actually really steep and kind of hard for me to get up to, like, you know, it's kind of accessible, but it's not totally accessible. So that's something I've experienced, myself. And in like, my research found that lots of theatres and venues just aren't physically accessible.

Nicole Zimmerer:
27:43
I've also noticed a lot of the times, like, if there is a ramp, by some miracle of like, a higher power, the ramp is always, well, not always, but most of the time, it's next to the dumpster, or like, the trash cans. And I'm like, "this is nice, this, this makes me feel human." Yeah, what a view, um, and then also, I've had to go, I've, I was at a venue and the stage or the performing area was like, down like that down, but like, sunken, you know, where they had two steps to get to the performing area. And they didn't have a ramp to get to the performing area. And I had to go through the kitchens to get on the floor. And I was like, "This is nice, and I'm getting a backstage view. But like, also, I want to be with my friends that would make me feel better." So it just, it's like, first of all, when you're disabled, you feel like another and then because of a lack of accessibility, you're made to, like, you feel like another because you're, you're kind of pushed to be another. Does that make sense?

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
28:57
Yeah, totally. And I think even beyond just getting in the building, I mean, I personally don't necessarily need an accessible bathroom because I can stay on for short periods of time. And there have been plenty of gigs that I've done where you know, the bathroom is definitely not accessible in other disabled performance definitely wouldn't have been able to perform there. And that's just it's a shame. Yeah, I would say the last the last reason I think that there's a lack of presence of disability in dance is because there's lots of choreography out there, I'm not saying all choreography, but there's definitely lots of examples of this, where the disabled dancer is almost a prop in the choreography. A really good example of this that like I've danced personally was this piece in which I had to sit in my wheelchair, a dancer came, stood on my foot play and did an arabesque holding the back of my wheelchair and then a different dancer, pushed my wheelchair and catapulted it onto the stage. Meanwhile, I'm just sitting in my chair, not feeling it, not doing anything. And sometimes I would even joke when we were rehearsing that piecea and I'd be like, "Oh, do you really need me? Like, can I go like take a five, like, I can leave my chair here. I'll just go sit in the corner," you know. So, you know, it begs the question of like, well, if we're not going to create choreography that, you know, makes disabled people feel good, why would disabled people want to dance? And I'm not saying there is not like great choreography out there physically integrated dance, like, there definitely is, I've danced some amazing pieces of my time. But that is just something that like, I can, like, show you plenty and plenty of examples out there of things of that nature.

Nicole Zimmerer:
30:42
Yeah. Um, because there's such a lack of physically integrated dance companies out there, do you think it kind of breeds like a toxic work environment for disabled dancers?

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
30:54
Yeah, um, I think it breed--it can breed a toxic work environment in the sense that because the opportunities are so scarce, or the perceived opportunities are so scarce, you know, directors of physically integrated dance companies are able to really like dangle the carrot in front of disabled dancers and, you know, walk all over them really treat them poorly. But with under the guise of, "well, you know, they're never going to leave this dance company, because there's not, you know, many other dance companies for them." And because there's not many disabled dancers, there's also, you know, I'm sure, lots of bad apples in many physically integrated dance companies who kind of spoil it for a lot of people, but like, "oh, like to replace this disabled dancer would take so much effort, so we don't bother and we're just going to let it affect everyone else in the rehearsal room instead." And that's something that like I know, happens in physically integrated dance companies, from like personal experience, and anecdotal experience from people I know, and in different companies. Also, I think the way that we change that is by understanding that any company can become a physically integrated dance company, if they just hire a disabled person, right. And I'm at a point when it comes to dance. One, I feel that I am, I don't want to say I'm completely stepping away from concert dance, but I'm more interested in musical theater work, and I'm more interested in doing dance part time and really doing musical theater full time. Mostly just because I really am more interested not in making more physically integrated dance companies, but more, figuring out how can we prepare disabled dancers and give them the foundation to feel empowered and feel like they can integrate themselves into any old dance company?

Nicole Zimmerer:
33:04
Right, right.

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
33:05
Because that's when inclusion happens. That is how we stop dangling the carrot in front of disabled dancers, and we stop the emotional abuse from happening to many a disabled dancer out there, working today.

Nicole Zimmerer:
33:25
Yeah. And I'm also aware that you were starting your own theatre company, can you, can you talk a little bit about that? Yeah, so um, what I was just saying about physically integrated dance is actually what inspired a little bit the theatre company that I decided to create. It's called Underdog Project Theatre. And it will be a professional theatre company dedicated to fostering cultural pluralism and uplifting the underrepresented and underestimated through artistic excellence. I really want the underdog to take center stage, and I think often for marginalized artists the stage is raked, and I really want to create a space in which we can level that stage and level the playing field. That is an amazing metaphor. I just want to let you know and that sounds amazing. So everybody, be on the lookout for that.

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
34:30
Yes.

Nicole Zimmerer:
34:31
So Meredith, as a disabled performer, disability will obviously affect your work in different ways. When you were planning the Underdog Project Theatre, how much of a role in the aspect of disability and creating an integrated company go into shaping the project overall?

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
34:52
At first, I thought about making it something that was like surrounded around disability but after my experience in dance, I've kind of realized that no, I am a disabled person, and so inherently by creating a theatre company accessibility is going to be a very big pillar of this company, but to me, I am, like I said, I'm more interested in just integrating disabled people into the company, not so much under the guise of like, "this is something that is specifically for disabled people." Like if disabled people want to join my theatre company, love it, I'm absolutely for it and for that representation, but I'm not necessarily saying that every show has to have a disabled person. I'm not saying that, like, every, everything is going to revolve around disability theatre, because that is something that I think I am ready to step away from, at this point, I shouldn't say step away from but

Nicole Zimmerer:
35:52
Right, you want everybody that comes to the table with their own ideas, no matter who they are, no matter their, whatever their ability is, whatever the background is, you just want everybody to come together and make great work.

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
36:06
Yeah.

Nicole Zimmerer:
36:07
Which is all we really want to do. Um, but it's, it's it, when you're a minority you tend to become, and if you're outspoken about, like, "Hey, I'm disabled" people tend to think that's, you know, your thing, and I just want to tell people out there, we're actually very complicated, complex, we have other, we have other interests besides our own disability and our own bodies and raging against the world, as hard as that is to believe. So I totally understand where you're coming from, in terms of like, it doesn't have to be like it is a pillar, but it's, it's not the main focus. It's one piece of the pie, and it's a very important piece of the pie, but it's not the whole pie. And now I want pie... so.

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
36:59
Yeah, I think it's like, by me being the artistic director, it's inherently going to be physically integrated as long as there is one other person who's non-disabled. But that's like, not why I started it, like I started it because I realized that I, the work that I've been asked to do isn't the type of work that I want to represent marginalized groups. I don't want to always play the disabled person, like I, you know, what would it look like, if you know, the love interest happened to be in a wheelchair? What if the love interest like, happen to be someone who's fat, or Black, or Asian or queer, or you know, all these marginalized voices that I feel like we cast aside unless it's like, you know, specifically for them?

Nicole Zimmerer:
37:54
A role made for them, right.

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
37:56
Yeah. It's like, what would it look like if these marginalized voices just played, you know, any old role?

Nicole Zimmerer:
38:04
Yeah. I mean, I for one am desperate for a disabled Lady M, I want to see a disabled Lady Macbeth so bad, I will pay an exorbitant amount of money to see that happen. But Lady M is not. is not a role traditionally played by a disabled person. And I think that's really interesting, because like, we have, you know, women playing Hamlet, and we have, you know, gender swapped, um, somebody give me a play... that isn't Shakespeare.

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
38:39
Company?

Nicole Zimmerer:
38:39
Yeah, they have a gender swapped Company, like we, we can, the thing about theatre is like, and all arts in general is like, we can play with it, if we can only believe it to be like, a thing that can happen and a thing that people want to see. And I think we as a society just need, we just need to like, expand our mind a little bit to what is possible.

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
39:04
Yeah, I, I think something that I love about musical theatre, in particular so much is the suspension of disbelief. But I think sometimes, sometimes people, when it comes to disability, it's like all of a sudden we like push the brakes and we likepump the brakes, ratherand we can't suspend our disbelief enough to imagine that, you know, a person in a wheelchair might be in Something Rotten. Like we can't, we can't imagine a disabled person in A Chorus Line, we can't like there's just like, for some people there's just certain shows that they just can't see a disabled person in. And I feel like the thing is that, why like, why not? Like why, why can't we suspend our disbelief just a little more? We can believe that someone's going to break out into song but we can't believe that a disabled person lived amongst like a group of non-disabled people?

Nicole Zimmerer:
40:02
Yeah.

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
40:03
Like, what's up with that?

Nicole Zimmerer:
40:04
We can believe that, like people break out into song, but we can't believe that, you know, disabled people existed in like the 1600s?

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
40:13
Yeah, and even beyond just suspension of disbelief, like sometimes adding disability into the context of a role can make it that much more impactful. Like I think about the time that I played the MC in Cabaret, and I feel like I've talked about this a lot, but the thing is that like in Nazi Germany before, like they tried to take out the Jews, they did a basically a test run,

Nicole Zimmerer:
40:41
Yeah, with disabled people.

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
40:43
Yeah, exactly. So the fact that, you know, the MC, who's really just kind of the almost representation to me of what the Nazis hate, like, they're queer, they are just like, when I played it, you know, they're disabled. So I just felt like it added so much more. And to me at that, you know, in that time period, I did wonder when I first got cast was like, "Oh, my God did like disabled people even exist in Nazi Germany?" Like, or like, would they have just been killed? So you know, there's a lot of like dramaturgical, like research that had to be done when I did that role, and to understand exactly what kind of disability would have existed in that time period, like how far had we advanced in medicine? Could people with spinal cord injuries live during that time? So like, I had to understand that the only way that I really would have, well, not the only way, but a specific example of a type of disability that would have existed during that time and have the medical technology to be able to survive, you know, I think I think we decided that it was like a partial spinal cord injury.

Nicole Zimmerer:
41:54
Yeah.

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
41:55
So it was like, it was really specific. And it's like, when you get super specific, like, you're going to have a really specific performance, you're going to have a really impactful performance. So it's like, no one would have to think about that if there weren't a disabled MC. It's like, because I was disabled, I had to think about all these things, I had to think about the impact like that, you know, my disability had onstage in that time, and how, you know, the Kit Kat Klub really was the place in which my character, they were lucky that they performed there and out of, you know, out of the public eye.

Nicole Zimmerer:
42:27
I'm now thinking about a disabled MC and it's one of the most brilliant casting choices I've ever heard in my entire life. Because not, not a lot of people know about, like, the history of Nazi Germany and disabled people. I think I found out in college that, like "the Nazis hated the cripples too," and I was like, that makes sense. But enough about that! Meredith, I'm so stoked to be sharing the news of Underdog Project Theatre with our listeners. Where can people go to like, stay in the loop and be on the lookout for updates about what's going on with y'all.

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
43:05
Yeah, if you want, we have a Facebook page Underdog Project Theatre, if you want to know about any of the upcoming projects. In June, we're hoping to do a Virtual Fringe Festival called Queerantine, and to help raise money to get this company off the ground and help queer artists.

Nicole Zimmerer:
43:31
I'm so excited for that. I think it's gonna be incredible.

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
43:34
Thanks.

Nicole Zimmerer:
43:35
Yeah.

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
43:36
Yeah, it's really, um, right now, it's kind of the bringing it to life stages. It's definitely in the works and hoping that by the end of June, we'll have the funds and the support in place to be able to really think about like a full season for 2022.

Nicole Zimmerer:
43:55
I just want to say kudos to you for embarking on this project during a global panasonic.

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
44:03
Yeah, we're also starting another pandemic. So you know, there's that too.

Nicole Zimmerer:
44:07
I just think it's fantastic. Yeah. But I think like, if I could speak to the pandemic and its relationship to the theatre company for a second. Something that happened when we had the pandemic is that everything became virtual and more accessible to people with disabilities. And these are things that people with disabilities have been asking for for a really long time. And so I really want to make sure that these accessible forms of theatre are something that continues past the pandemic and that is definitely a goal of mine with Underdog and yeah, I'm hoping that that will be able to be something in existence sometime soon. I would say we're in like a little bit of like a soft opening stage, if you will. Amazing Meredith, we are so excited to see what's coming up. And I encourage all of our listeners to stay on the lookout for updates and to follow Underdog Project Theatre on Facebook to stay in the loop. So our final segment for this episode is something we like to call ACCESSible HOLLYWOOD, where we talk about what's going on in Hollywood in terms of disability and disability representation, and Meredith, have you seen the show Special on Netflix?

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
45:36
Yes, I love Special.

Nicole Zimmerer:
45:37
Okay. Good.

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
45:38
It's been a while, but, yeah.

Nicole Zimmerer:
45:39
Well, it just, it came out the other week, that Special is doing a season, well everybody knew that Special was going to be on for season two, but season two is going to be the final season, which is a real bummer.

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
45:56
Oh no.

Nicole Zimmerer:
45:57
Yeah, yeah. Um, so for those of you don't know Special is a show on Netflix. It is created by Ryan O'Connell, who also wrote the entire first season and also stars in it. Ryan O'Connell plays a man with cerebral palsy, and it's basically a show about how he functions, how he goes through the, throughout his life with a disability and how he interacts with different people, and also how he comes to accept that he has a disability. Um, season two is going to be the last season, but I'm very excited that the episodes are going to be longer, and we're going to get just a little bit more of this show because it's such a "special" show. So the episodes for Season 1 were 15 minute episodes, the episodes for Season 2 are now going to be 30 minutes, so we're going to get more content. And Ryan O'Connell has a writer's room for Season 2, which he did not have in Season 1, which I just love the fact that like, he's going to have a writers room and hopefully a lot of stories come out because different writers bring different stories to the table. It's really it's great seeing a disabled writer, write their own stories for such a big streaming service like Netflix. And I'm just really excited because I know this isn't the end for Ryan O'Connell, he's kind of he's kind of like a life guru to me, I don't know about you, Meredith, but I love him.

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
47:53
He, the character, I don't know if he is a real life, but the character is well, I presume he also is just because it seems pretty autobiographical, but he, he's also gay, right?

Nicole Zimmerer:
48:04
Yeah, yeah.

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
48:05
Am I remembering that correctly?

Nicole Zimmerer:
48:06
Yeah.

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
48:07
So gay and disabled. And you know, as a queer person I you know, I latch on to any queer representation on TV, as a disabled person I latch on to any disabled representation on TV, and then when it happens together, that's just

Nicole Zimmerer:
48:22
You're just like, "amazing!"

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
48:22
That's just, chef's kiss, like "mwah! mwah!"

Nicole Zimmerer:
48:26
Also, did you see the episode where he, um, he gets to have sex? I thought that was such a great step forward for us, because a lot of people don't understand that when you're disabled, you also have a sex life.

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
48:42
Yeah.

Nicole Zimmerer:
48:43
But I just thought that, that is one of my favorite scenes of television is the fact that we got to see a disabled mana disabled gay manget to have sex on like, on a show, which is something that like not a lot of people think about, but I think about all the time because I have a dirty, dirty, dirty mind. And that, uh, thank you for laughing at that, Meredith.

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
49:09
Yeah, I just think it's like, it's it's just so refreshing to see that on screen.

Nicole Zimmerer:
49:15
Yeah.

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
49:15
Like we were saying, like, it's so refreshing to see queer things on TV, it's so refreshing to see disabled representation, and then I think the fact that they went there was just so, "special," and just so meaningful, because I think so many disabled people have the experience of, I don't know, I don't know if you've ever experienced anything like this, Nicole, but like I know, every time I've ever been on a dating app, like, right out the gate, like matches are just like, "Does it work?"

Nicole Zimmerer:
49:46
Yeah. Like so

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
49:48
Like, "Can you have sex?"

Nicole Zimmerer:
49:49
Yeah.

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
49:50
And I just think that so many people have that narrow viewpoint of disabled people in thinking that it's they're so different And that way.

Nicole Zimmerer:
50:00
Yeah.

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
50:01
And I'm glad that they went there with the show.

Nicole Zimmerer:
50:04
Yeah. And I just thought it was a really, really great scene to watch. I just, I just thought it was incredible. And I'm so excited to see what kind of stories they bring to us in Season 2.

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
50:18
Absolutely. Anything that has disabled people in the room in the creation process, I think is always going to be a step in the right direction.

Nicole Zimmerer:
50:28
Exactly, exactly.

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
50:30
And think as a performer people ask me a lot like, "Oh, like, do you think that theater and the arts are becoming more inclusive?" and I always tell people is like, I mean, I can do you know, so much as a performer, right, like, in trying to get cast in the things and people casting me, but the fastest way to really get to the point of inclusion that I think most people want, is really to get disabled people creating work.

Nicole Zimmerer:
50:55
Yeah. In the room where it happens.

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
50:58
Oh yeah.

Nicole Zimmerer:
50:59
Um, Meredith, where can the people follow you on the interwebs?

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
51:04
Uh yeah, people can find me on my new fancy website, www.meredithaleighawells.com. You can also find me on Instagram @meredithaleighawells. And same thing on YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/c/MeredithAleighaWells). Um, yeah, those are pretty much the places that I do things on the internet the most.

Nicole Zimmerer:
51:26
You habitate?

Meredith Aleigha Wells:
51:28
That's my corner.

Nicole Zimmerer:
51:31
Thank you for listening to this episode of Break A Leg! And thank you so much to our guest, Meredith Aleigha Wells for joining us today. Follow us on Instagram and Twitter @breakalegpod, that's break a leg, P-O-D. Let us know what you thought of the episode or tell us who you think we should have on next. For a full transcript of each episode, use the link in the episode description. The easiest way to support this show is by leaving us a review on Apple Podcasts. And make sure to click that Subscribe button! Break A Leg! is produced by Scott MacDonald, and our cover art was created by Sasha and Alexander Schwartz. I'm Nicole Zimmerer and I will see you next time.