WEBVTT
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I'm going to show your book.
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I've got it right here.
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Thank you for sending it.
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And I've talked to a lot of people, a lot of my friends know that time is something that fascinates me a lot.
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I think about it in different ways.
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And when I actually got your book in the mail, my first thought was, you know, without reading into it or knowing anything really about it, just the word now popped up.
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And I what I thought your book was going to be about was more in lines with if you're thinking of starting something or promoting something, like just go now.
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But completely different as you dive into a lot of different ways to think about time.
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I love how it's structured with myths about time before each of your chapters.
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Because actually, when I started scrolling through it, I started, I read those first on just some of the time myths.
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And there's a couple I want to talk about specifically because they just caught my attention.
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I like the way you described it.
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But nonetheless, man, this is your second time on the Books for Guys podcast.
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And it is uh, dude, it's an honor to have you back.
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No, it's it's really great to be here.
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I am a massive fan of the mission, uh, partly because, you know, when I was, you know, the target age, the people you're trying to meet, you know, you know, kids playing sports in high school, you know, middle school.
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I was the kind of guy that needed to read.
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And I discovered reading and I discovered history at that time.
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And the way I thought about it was it was like, it was like watching film.
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You know, if you're if you're thinking about like, I want to perform well in the game.
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Obviously, everyone knows you got to step up and be clutch when when the moment is there.
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But that means you got to be practicing.
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You got to take enough shots so that you know your body just acts on instinct.
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But what I learned at that time is every great player watches a lot of film.
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And that's where you kind of learn.
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That's where you get that unfair advantage where you're like, you can practice all you want, but if you practice doing the wrong thing, like, well, you're gonna perform as well as you practice.
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So watching film was the way to say, oh, I see how that guy protects the ball.
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I'm gonna practice that because I wanna get better at that.
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So when I thought about that, I discovered history at about the same time that I was learning that lesson.
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And I thought about it like watching film.
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Like I need to be able to see those patterns before others do.
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So if I'm gonna be successful as a creative person, as an innovator, someone who's gonna launch new products and have any success at all.
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Well, yeah, I can practice and I can make sure I'm doing it a lot and I'm kind of acting right when the moment comes.
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But history is kind of a cheat code.
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It's the unfair advantage.
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I get to learn from hundreds of people who have done it right and done it wrong.
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And that way I can practice doing it the right way.
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So I kind of the reason I'm such a big fan of Books for Guys, sponsor of Books for Guys, is other guys like me need to hear this lesson right now in high school because I did.
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And because I did, I became more successful.
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I'm 51 now and on my fourth business, launched hundreds of products, had some good success in life.
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I've been really blessed, been really lucky, but I practice hard and I watch a lot of film.
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And whatever young man needs to hear this right now, watch film.
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And that's where the history is, that's where the books are.
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And that's why I'm so obsessed with it.
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Yeah.
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There's a theme to all your books.
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I've learned something from every one of them because you do provide and you do it in an entertaining way.
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Yeah, there's a lot of history to them, and and you you do a really good way, like you create a path and a guide of here's what happened, and here's why this took place, and here's where we're at today.
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And this book's very similar.
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There's stories in there about what's taking place.
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And we talk about that all the time on this podcast about how books are such a blueprint for no matter what you're trying to accomplish, trying to build a business.
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There's books out there that you can take things from instead of going through it on your own and having all these headaches and roadblocks.
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You can skip some of those.
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If you'll take just a little bit of time to take some notes, read, read from someone who's already been there, done that, and your book does a really good thing.
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All your books do, again, I've learned from each of them because of the way you structure them and the stories you share.
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There's knowledge I've gained, there's cheat codes I've taken as I'm building books for guys and just thinking of things in different ways.
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And so I just like the fact that you're it's not, it's not a textbook.
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You you have fun stories to it, and I also learn from it, which is I think hard to do.
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A lot of books aren't like that.
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It's hard.
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I think about it this way, you know, you want to succeed at anything.
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You know, you've got to be, you know, like, what does success mean?
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It's being right, right moment in time with the right action, with the right people.
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All that stuff needs to be right.
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Well, how do you do that?
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Well, you got to practice.
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So you've got to be making sure that you're ready when that moment comes so that your body just acts on instinct.
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Your mind is sharp and it's ready.
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Well, how do you do that?
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How do you know what to practice?
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That's what the books are for.
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And the I consider my biggest challenge in writing these books isn't the idea.
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It's how to tell the idea in an entertaining way, because otherwise people won't listen to it.
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I mean, how many times was I in in high school and man, I hated high school?
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I hated school and I hated history class, I hated all of this stuff until I started to get good teachers and eventually in college, good professors who told stories.
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And when they told the story, and I was really excited and engaged by that, I'm like, wow, holy shit.
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I really want to know why Julius Caesar did it this way at this time.
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I kind of want to get into his head.
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And I learned more about the Romans at that time.
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Or I wanted to learn more about Edison.
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Like, ah, why was he such a dick?
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Because he was kind of a dick.
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Like, why was he still successful?
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And so I went and I learned about it.
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But I wouldn't have learned about it had it just like, well, here's the list of inventions Edison had and kind of the dates and the times.
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Like, imagine if they started the conversation with so everyone knows Edison was a dick.
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Immediately you would probably go, something's interesting here.
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Yeah, somebody started to be real with me.
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Yeah, somebody started to be real.
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Give me something that like grabs my attention like that.
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And I'm like, well, what are they about to say next?
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Not just, here we go, turn to chapter 35 in this book, you know.
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That's that's the thing.
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When you get to you listen to some of these, uh, you know, read my books.
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Like I listened to Dan Carlin's podcast, Hardcore History.
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And if you really want to understand just what he talks about, kind of the extremes of human experience from a historical perspective.
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So it's about like it wasn't like, well, Alexander the Great went to this place and beat this guy in this battle at this date, at this place.
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He's what was going through Alexander's head?
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How was he thinking about it?
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How is he playing the psychological game on that opponent so that he beat him before he even showed up?
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Because that's the sort of thing that whatever you're excited about, you can take from that and say, in the next game I'm at, I'm gonna try to psych the guy out in that same way.
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Or, you know what, I'm thinking about starting up my own business when I graduate high school.
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Maybe I need to kind of do it like Edison did this thing.
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Like, those are the sort of things you learn, and you just never would have thought of them otherwise.
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Like there's so many things that people did that are good ideas and a lot of bad ideas, of course.
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But it's you get to learn from all of those people, not just your own gut or your own practice or the people in your immediate area.
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There's so much more than that.
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Well, and this goes right into the first thing that caught my eye on Jason.
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And and I'll have you explain a little bit.
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And maybe it caught my eye because it was like at the front of the book, and I was like, oh, that's an interesting uh I immediately resonated with it because it does correlate with some of the stuff that I'm trying to build.
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But your very first timing myth is first movers always have the advantage.
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That's a myth.
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First movers always have the advantage.
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And I think that correlates a lot with what you're saying right now is you can learn a lot from the people that that start first and you can figure out things a little better.
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But but talk about that in your own words.
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Because when I was, when I first opened your book, I immediately was like, before I read anything about it, I was like, this is what I'm talking about.
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You can learn from other people.
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But what was your thoughts as you put that first chapter and that first myth together?
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I like it when I think about timing and when I looked at it through that lens, I thought, what is the thing that people talk to me about all the time?
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And it's almost reflexive that, like, hey, we need to have first mover advantage.
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You want to be the first one out.
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That's the most important thing.
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Well, I just knew from my own experience, I'm like, well, that's BS.
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It just never works.
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And I actually tried to find good examples of when it did.
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And there are preciously few of them.
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There are just so many examples of people think, like, well, you know, Apple was the first one out with these things.
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No, they weren't.
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Apple was not the first one out with a graphical user interface.
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They weren't the first personal computer.
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They weren't the first smartphone.
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They weren't the first music player.
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They weren't the first anything.
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What their strategy was and still is, is look at who's getting out there and taking all the hits.
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Look at the guy who is going out and running onto the field first without a good plan and just getting just getting crushed right out of the gate.
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Or, hey, 10 guys went out, eight of them got crushed, two kind of got around some defenders, and now they're kind of in the backfield a little bit, you know, use a metaphor.
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But they're not really, they don't know how to kind of go the distance because they don't have a good plan, but they made it through a little bit.
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You sit back, you're watching them, you always want to be the second mover.
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You want to look at who is out there, who went first, what hits did they take.
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Because that's going to be 80% of all of the lessons you need to learn.
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That first guy is going to take all of those hits and say, Oh, got it.
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I see what they did wrong.
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I'm going to fix those things.
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I might still take a couple of hits out there, but I'm 80% ahead of where they am or where they're where they are.
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And yeah, they might be out in the market first, but think about what happens when you are in the market first with anything.
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You have to teach the market what your product is and why it's good.
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So you're doing a lot of education, not a lot of advertising.
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So you're spending a lot of money just teaching you why this is important.
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And okay, yeah, your product is the only one out there.
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So of course they're going to buy yours.
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Well, when that second company comes out with a better product, faster, well, now there are two products in the market.
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So all that work you did, you did 100% of the work to get the product out there.
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And now someone's going to come and take 50% of your business or probably take the whole business.
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And so what Facebook did to MySpace.
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Tech companies are masters at this, but it happens all the time.
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You can think about pretty much any domain out there.
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It's always the follow-up person that actually does is the most successful out there.
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So I wanted to make sure that people saw that that, hey, if you're not first, like people a lot of times will think, well, someone else had that idea.
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What you shouldn't be thinking is, well, that's not a good idea.
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The question you need to ask yourself is, okay, well, what makes that an interesting idea?
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What are they doing right now?
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They're spending time educating the market.
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Where are they making a mistake?
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You know, look at that and say, okay, when I launch my product, here's how I'm going to make mine a little bit different, and I'm not going to make those eight mistakes.
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And your entry into the market will be so much easier.
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So if you're thinking about starting something and you're young, you don't have the money to go around and educate the market.
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You should be following behind in the slipstream of someone else who's already doing it.
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And that is just proven to be successful for hundreds of years.
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That's the strategy.
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And it just it kind of pisses me off that more people don't know that.
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But you know, now you do.
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So yeah, you know, don't screw it up.
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It's a tried and true method.
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And I was thinking about just examples of that because I listen to business podcasts all the time, and they'll say the like people businesses.
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I hate, I hear people all the time say, Well, that's already out there, that's already out there.
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But people, there's so many things you can go fine-tune and make just a little bit better and be able to sell a product or to to offer a service.
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There's so many people out there, too.
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Like, not every product is touching, you know, every single person.
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But I was thinking of it too, like just investing.
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People are always trying to do different things.
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It's like, no, just stick to the the method, it always works.
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You know, like people, there's lots of newsletters out there, but if you have something different, interesting, like you can make a newsletter successful.
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Still today, a podcast.
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There's new podcasts becoming number one all the time, you know.
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Like it because same with products, just you can find your little niche, your little changeup, follow their blueprint up to a certain point.
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You can do your twist on it, and bam, there you go.
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Like, don't you don't have to reinvent the wheel, just make the wheel a little better.
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Yeah, just uh put a different tire on it.
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Yeah, I think people overplay how much they need to do in order to differentiate.
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They think they need to differentiate the entire thing.
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It's like, well, no, what do people care about?
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And that's what you're watching when you're seeing the first mover out there.
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You're seeing what you're not watching is as much what they're doing.
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You're watching how customers are reacting to it.
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What are they asking for?
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What of the 10 features, what's the one thing that everybody is really gung-ho for?
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Well, make sure that when you think about that, okay, well, here's my offer.
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I'm gonna make sure to focus on that one thing that I know people are really excited about, make that thing better, and essentially do the rest of the things like, hey, don't waste time on those things.
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They've already figured it out.
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Do basically the same thing there, but differentiate on the one thing that you've observed customers really want and they really want to pay attention to.
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When you do that, you win.
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It's a, hey, I've got everything that Chris has, but my thing is better in this specific way than I know you really want.
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Like, you win.
00:14:53.679 --> 00:14:56.799
That's another thing I like about your book, Jason, the way you write.
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It's not that you're telling people like not to do something.
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You're almost saying, like, hey, here's where maybe you could get hung up, but here's how you could approach it a little bit differently and be successful.
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So it's not one of those, like, don't do this, only do this.
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It's like, here's some examples of why this may not be totally accurate.
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Here's the other side of that.
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And so you you kind of like reality, give hope.
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Reality, give hope.
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And uh that's kind of how each chapter was reading to me, like, huh, how am I thinking about this wrong?
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I see what Jason's trying to teach me.
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This makes a lot of sense.
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So it kind of opened up the way I thought.
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Um, and this kind of goes in because we were talking about people creating, you know, the first thing or whatever.
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Another thing that caught my eye, and I love the way you you describe this, and it was know the difference between invention and innovation.
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And I'm not gonna read the whole paragraph, but you have invention is often a solo performance.
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Innovation is an can you explain your thoughts a little bit?
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Because the I just read that first sentence and I was like, makes a lot of sense.
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I think I know where Jason's going with this.
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And it was it was worded beautifully the way that you described it.
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No, I appreciate that.
00:16:01.120 --> 00:16:08.240
We tend to use invention and innovation and creativity interchangeably, but they're not.
00:16:08.480 --> 00:16:14.639
It is important for you guys, young men listening to this, you gotta understand the difference between those two things.
00:16:14.879 --> 00:16:19.120
An invention is something that you are doing creatively in your own head.
00:16:19.200 --> 00:16:20.799
And it's it's your idea.
00:16:20.960 --> 00:16:24.720
It's you kind of thinking about it, writing it down, practicing it yourself.
00:16:24.879 --> 00:16:25.200
Okay.
00:16:25.919 --> 00:16:36.159
Innovation is when that works in a game against a real opponent, in the kind of in the moment, in the system with okay, the rest of your teammates.
00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:44.159
And you can think about that in a sports context or a band context or a you know, business context, doesn't really matter.
00:16:44.480 --> 00:16:50.159
Invention is your own mental process, your own practice, which is vital.
00:16:50.240 --> 00:16:51.519
You have to do that.
00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:57.200
But innovation is when you make your opponent react differently to you.
00:16:57.360 --> 00:16:59.039
Now you know you've innovated.
00:16:59.200 --> 00:17:06.880
In a business context, that means that, like, hey, I've got a better mouse trap, but if no one buys it and no one uses it, I have not innovated.
00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:09.839
I've invented, but I haven't innovated.
00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:17.759
Most people don't know that 80% or more of all patents that are active right now, not like expired, you know, the 25 years.
00:17:18.079 --> 00:17:20.559
80% of patents aren't being used at all.
00:17:21.279 --> 00:17:22.240
They're just sitting there.
00:17:22.400 --> 00:17:25.200
Like people think like, oh, you got a patent, you're making bank.
00:17:25.440 --> 00:17:31.200
Most people, the vast majority of people make nothing off a patent because they've invented.
00:17:31.519 --> 00:17:35.359
But innovation is a customer saying, I'm going to hand over money for that.
00:17:36.079 --> 00:17:38.000
There is a big, big difference.
00:17:38.160 --> 00:17:43.440
Like, how many times have you practiced a particular move for a game and it just doesn't work?
00:17:43.680 --> 00:17:45.839
You've invented, but you haven't innovated.
00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:52.000
You've innovated when you smoke that guy and he's gone and he doesn't know how to react to you.
00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:53.759
Now you've innovated.
00:17:54.079 --> 00:17:55.599
So there is a difference.
00:17:55.759 --> 00:18:09.200
And I want to just, there are a lot of different ways to think about that metaphorically, but whatever works for you in understanding the difference between those two things as you're listening to this, once you know it, you won't forget it again.
00:18:09.279 --> 00:18:11.680
Like, oh, I got to do both things.
00:18:12.079 --> 00:18:23.359
But real creativity and where you make money and where you have success is when other people react to you and they say, you've done something really cool and I want a part of that.
00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:28.079
I'm going to part with money, or I'm going to, you know, I'm going to try to copy that.
00:18:28.319 --> 00:18:32.799
That's usually how you know you're on to something, is it other people are trying to copy that move?
00:18:32.960 --> 00:18:43.759
So it's, you know, and I talk about that also, Chris, in the context of, you know, when you think about innovating and you're working with other people, think about it from a you're on the field metaphor.
00:18:43.839 --> 00:18:47.279
And this is like more like team sports, not like tennis or something.
00:18:47.599 --> 00:18:54.079
But you've got your own team, you've got the other team, you've got the rules of the game, you have a whole mix of things going on.
00:18:54.240 --> 00:18:58.319
That's kind of what the orchestra metaphor is for from kind of a band perspective.
00:18:58.559 --> 00:19:10.799
That, yeah, you can be playing your own instrument, you can have your own game, but if you're not in sync with your team and the other team is doing something that you're not responding to, you're in a lot of trouble.
00:19:11.039 --> 00:19:18.720
So the innovation process is not just you practicing, but you knowing, okay, my teammates, I know they're practicing that.
00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:20.240
I know what their strengths are.
00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:23.119
I'm going to practice to complement that strength.
00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:27.759
And I'm watching enough film to know what the opposing team's going to be doing.
00:19:27.920 --> 00:19:29.200
I'm studying that.
00:19:29.440 --> 00:19:31.839
I'm kind of working all of those angles together.
00:19:31.920 --> 00:19:34.079
It's kind of what a good coach will help you do.
00:19:34.559 --> 00:19:39.599
You know, that's what great coaches do, is they help understand how all the pieces get together.
00:19:40.160 --> 00:19:44.319
Think about the innovation process as you got to be your own coach.
00:19:44.640 --> 00:19:47.279
Like that's what is special about that.
00:19:47.440 --> 00:19:50.079
Like, oh, I got to think like a coach, not a player.
00:19:50.400 --> 00:19:52.480
Inventors think like players.
00:19:52.960 --> 00:19:54.640
Innovators think like coaches.
00:19:54.799 --> 00:19:55.680
That's the difference.
00:19:55.920 --> 00:19:56.319
Yeah.
00:19:56.559 --> 00:19:57.440
I love that.
00:19:57.759 --> 00:19:59.599
Man, it made it this makes so much sense.
00:19:59.680 --> 00:20:01.440
As I was reading, I mean, everything was clicking.
00:20:01.519 --> 00:20:04.160
And I just, again, it's not something I think about every day.
00:20:04.319 --> 00:20:09.279
I probably, there probably will be things that I think about as I build certain things out now.
00:20:09.519 --> 00:20:11.200
So I think your book's incredible.
00:20:11.359 --> 00:20:14.079
I'm not going to go through all the myths because all of them are awesome.
00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:21.920
I love how each chapter starts, but there was one other one that I wanted to get your take on because I understand what you were saying.
00:20:22.079 --> 00:20:25.680
I also want to kind of like ask you how to compare the two.
00:20:25.759 --> 00:20:30.720
So one of the other myths, uh, and it was timing myth four, customers will wait for better features.
00:20:30.880 --> 00:20:39.920
And I was thinking of this in terms of, you know, I've even said myself, like, I'm gonna wait and get the next iPhone when it's, you know, better than this, this one.
00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:43.440
But there's so many people that go out and just buy that phone, and I end up buying it too.
00:20:43.599 --> 00:20:52.720
But I was thinking of it in terms too of the first point we talked about, where we were talking about first, you know, you don't have to be first to the market to sell.
00:20:52.880 --> 00:20:59.759
And I was kind of just curious, like how you differentiated those two, because the way I was thinking about it was you could be first, even if you don't have all the features.
00:20:59.920 --> 00:21:03.359
The second person could could make something with better features and take the market.
00:21:03.440 --> 00:21:08.000
But that doesn't mean the first person's not successful by putting something out there first.
00:21:08.319 --> 00:21:10.319
So just how were you differentiating that?
00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:11.839
And can you dive in a little to both?
00:21:11.920 --> 00:21:15.440
Because I was thinking of both as I got to that myth.
00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:27.359
Yeah, there's uh people are thinking about it, it's really how you're thinking about your invention, your innovation, you know, as you're putting together.
00:21:27.599 --> 00:21:39.119
Most people think about it in terms of the me, my product, my features that I'm going to have in my product, and how are those, how is the market going to respond to that?
00:21:39.599 --> 00:21:40.799
Which is fine.
00:21:41.200 --> 00:21:42.640
You kind of have to do that.
00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:51.359
But what I see with successful innovators is they flip that and they think in terms of what their customer needs.
00:21:51.680 --> 00:21:54.559
What are their, what are their emotional pain points?
00:21:54.720 --> 00:21:58.400
How are they viewing urgency from a timing perspective?
00:21:58.559 --> 00:22:07.279
We think about I in the Book, I talk a lot about perceptual time, like how people think about time outside of just a calendar or a sequence.
00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:11.119
That's how people think about time, like, is it going fast or is it going slow?
00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:12.160
Am I in pain?
00:22:12.319 --> 00:22:14.480
I need an urgent solution right now.
00:22:15.039 --> 00:22:21.279
Successful innovators think about their customer 80% of the time and their own product 20% of the time.
00:22:21.519 --> 00:22:29.039
So they're thinking about not the feature that's going to do it, it's what is the situation that's happening for them right now.
00:22:29.440 --> 00:22:35.920
And I like to think about it in terms of okay, let's say the easiest example is a simple one.
00:22:36.079 --> 00:22:42.079
If you just bought a car, you went out, you bought a car, and 10 days later, you see an ad for another car.
00:22:42.240 --> 00:22:43.200
Are you paying attention?
00:22:44.079 --> 00:22:44.400
No.
00:22:44.799 --> 00:22:45.279
Of course not.
00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:46.079
You just bought a car.
00:22:46.240 --> 00:22:51.519
You might pay a little attention because you're still in the mental mind, but are you ready to buy another car?
00:22:51.839 --> 00:22:52.799
Most people aren't.
00:22:52.960 --> 00:22:56.799
I mean, there are a few who, you know, who who will do that.
00:22:56.960 --> 00:23:01.839
But for most of us, most normal people, you bought a car, you're kind of done.
00:23:02.079 --> 00:23:04.480
You just left a restaurant and you ate.
00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:06.799
Are you ready to go to the next restaurant?
00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:07.440
No.
00:23:07.680 --> 00:23:14.160
You got to be thinking about like what's going on in that person's head at that particular time and how urgent it is.
00:23:14.559 --> 00:23:32.240
So it's all a matter of if you're saying, hey, I need another 10 months to get this next set of features in, but people have urgency right now, figure out what is the urgency that's driving the purchase right now, and say, you know what, those other nine things can wait.
00:23:32.799 --> 00:23:34.880
Like, I'm going to work on that one thing.
00:23:35.119 --> 00:23:46.160
I hate to use the example too often, but in 07, 08, when Apple launched the first iPhone, uh, you know, some of the most people listen to this be old enough to either remember that or have heard of it.
00:23:46.400 --> 00:23:51.599
Most people who are younger might not have really realized what the reaction in the market was to that.
00:23:51.839 --> 00:23:53.440
It was like, nah.
00:23:53.839 --> 00:23:54.799
I think it's dumb.
00:23:54.880 --> 00:23:56.240
Like it doesn't do anything.
00:23:56.720 --> 00:23:58.000
It really didn't do much.
00:23:58.160 --> 00:24:02.960
It was basically like a little web browser and it had email and it didn't have a keyboard.
00:24:03.119 --> 00:24:04.400
That was a big deal at the time.
00:24:04.480 --> 00:24:08.079
All the blackberries had keyboards, so it was like, this thing's a joke.
00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:16.799
But it it had the one feature that people were kind of urgent for right now was like, I want something that's kind of cool.
00:24:17.119 --> 00:24:19.680
Like Blackberries weren't cool, they just weren't.
00:24:19.759 --> 00:24:21.200
They were kind of a business thing.
00:24:21.359 --> 00:24:27.920
You had it, like, yo, they were kind of a sign that you were kind of a corporate grinder and you were kind of a nothing.
00:24:28.079 --> 00:24:32.319
And iPhone was like, wow, I kind of want that, but I'm the cool kid.
00:24:32.480 --> 00:24:33.039
I want that.
00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:34.160
It had style.
00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:38.799
So Apple focused on like, hey, I'm gonna let the other stuff go.
00:24:38.960 --> 00:24:46.640
I'm gonna focus on releasing something that is really, really cool right now, knowing that, hey, in a few months I'm gonna have a new one.
00:24:46.799 --> 00:24:48.559
And another year I'm gonna have something better.
00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:50.400
It's gonna only get better.
00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:56.880
But they focused on the one thing, their differentiator, because BlackBerry was first to the market.
00:24:57.039 --> 00:24:58.079
They were second.
00:24:58.319 --> 00:25:03.359
They knew I don't have to be as good as BlackBerry on a tech spec perspective.
00:25:03.759 --> 00:25:05.440
I just need to be cooler than them.
00:25:05.680 --> 00:25:10.480
And Steve Jobs, for all his faults, was really good at being cooler than you.
00:25:10.799 --> 00:25:11.119
Yeah.
00:25:11.599 --> 00:25:16.319
You know, so that's kind of what I'm getting at when people think about time.
00:25:16.720 --> 00:25:26.960
I I think one of the underlying lessons in the whole book is a good competitor, obviously, you know, you know, a good athlete obviously is working on their game all the time.
00:25:27.599 --> 00:25:36.400
But they are also, you know, obsessed about how am I, you know, how am I gonna beat these guys out there?
00:25:36.559 --> 00:25:40.400
They are obsessed with the game and they really think about that.
00:25:40.960 --> 00:25:43.680
So yeah, that's how I'd how I'd reconcile those.
00:25:43.759 --> 00:25:50.000
You think more about your audience than you think about what your offer is, and they will tell you what they want.
00:25:50.240 --> 00:25:53.599
It just takes some humility to get out there and listen.
00:25:53.839 --> 00:25:58.400
No, that's that's the tricky part because you have a good, good idea and you fall in love with your idea.
00:25:58.559 --> 00:26:04.400
And what you want to do is you want to fall in love with your audience's need, want, and problem.
00:26:04.640 --> 00:26:06.400
Don't fall in love with your solution.
00:26:06.640 --> 00:26:09.680
Man, Jason, there's so there's so many good.
00:26:10.160 --> 00:26:20.160
Again, this is one of those books you could you could go back to for just reminders, if nothing else, to kind of look through and go, okay, I've I need to change the way I'm thinking about this, or if you're stuck somewhere.
00:26:20.319 --> 00:26:32.559
I mean, I'm even thinking like in a college marketing class, like how much I would have enjoyed reading this to get pointers, and maybe I'm trying to be entrepreneurial and I'm trying to create a business or a product.
00:26:32.640 --> 00:26:46.400
Like, and and I would love to, we can talk more about trying to to get this maybe into some universities because I could see where students would, instead of just reading examples through a textbook, again, having something like this that gives just real-world examples and stories.
00:26:46.559 --> 00:26:51.359
So you're it almost like motivates me to want to start another business or something too.
00:26:51.440 --> 00:26:52.799
Cause I'm like, okay, this makes sense.
00:26:52.880 --> 00:26:54.880
Let me try this and we'll do it better this time.
00:26:55.039 --> 00:27:05.119
Um, but I just love again, uh the way that you've written it, and it's not a long read, it's broken up in pieces to where it's easy to go, hey, myth, myth number five, cool, what's the lesson behind it?
00:27:05.279 --> 00:27:07.680
Myth number seven, cool, what's the lesson behind it?
00:27:07.839 --> 00:27:13.119
So for me, it was easy for me to take things from without having to go too deep into it.
00:27:13.200 --> 00:27:21.599
It's something I was able to like kind of glance at, and I read the whole thing, but there were points where I was like, this is interesting, what's he got to say about that?
00:27:21.759 --> 00:27:25.599
And I was able in 10 minutes to get what your lesson was there.
00:27:25.839 --> 00:27:28.480
And so I just I'm a big fan of the way you wrote this book.
00:27:28.559 --> 00:27:30.000
It's it's different from your other books.
00:27:30.079 --> 00:27:32.640
Obviously, there's history, but your other books are much longer.
00:27:32.799 --> 00:27:39.440
Also, more they're enjoyable too, but this is just kind of a different, different style overall than what you know those two books were.
00:27:39.519 --> 00:27:46.799
And this, I found this just to be very, I don't know, maybe because I'm further along and what I'm trying to build, it just there were things that I was able to catch.
00:27:47.119 --> 00:28:04.319
But I really do think, especially young people, old people too, you know, whatever, but you know, people who are inspired to build something, I think this would be a great book to read as you're doing that because it may set you up to do things a little bit better and think a little differently as you're going through some of these stages.
00:28:04.720 --> 00:28:12.480
I think the biggest thing I want to show people in the book is that, you know, of all the things you got to think about.
00:28:12.640 --> 00:28:13.920
My dad was in the business.
00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:16.079
Uh, he was he was a creative director.
00:28:16.240 --> 00:28:18.559
And he used to say, you know, things he learned.
00:28:18.640 --> 00:28:22.720
He was in the madmen era of advertising, you know, kids look that up.
00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:23.920
It was a good show.
00:28:24.480 --> 00:28:31.200
Basically said one of the many lessons was anyone will buy almost anything at the right time.
00:28:32.160 --> 00:28:39.440
So, you know, when you think about in business-to-business marketing, which I do a lot of, we have something called the 95-5 rule.
00:28:39.599 --> 00:28:50.960
It means that even if you identified your target market 100% perfectly, you knew these are the buyers for my software or for my product or whatever.
00:28:51.279 --> 00:28:56.640
Only 5% of those buyers will be ready to buy at any given time on average.
00:28:56.880 --> 00:29:12.160
Your trick is to find that out and find out what those triggers are so that when you have all of those messages that you know, like in 708, if you were launching the iPhone and I had just bought a Blackberry, am I buying the iPhone?
00:29:12.400 --> 00:29:14.319
Probably not the first one for sure.
00:29:14.480 --> 00:29:16.720
I'm gonna wait till the next cycle.
00:29:16.960 --> 00:29:21.359
So you got to be playing the long game and timing is critical.
00:29:21.519 --> 00:29:25.839
And most people don't have a really good idea of how to think about time constructively.
00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:31.599
They think like, well, what day to launch or what time of the year or whatever.
00:29:31.839 --> 00:29:35.279
And it's so much more intense than that.
00:29:35.440 --> 00:29:40.640
And I wanted to give people a way to think about it that they won't be able to forget once they know it.
00:29:40.720 --> 00:29:46.640
And we'll be able to help them be creative and innovative in ways that will help make them more successful.
00:29:46.880 --> 00:29:47.839
Absolutely love it, man.
00:29:47.920 --> 00:29:50.160
We've got it, we've got it posted on the website.
00:29:50.319 --> 00:29:54.319
We'll have it posted on on every other channel of ours.
00:29:54.480 --> 00:29:57.680
And again, we're we're excited to spotlight this book.
00:29:57.759 --> 00:30:08.960
Uh Jason, I'm excited to talk with you more too about just how to get it in other in more people's hands, especially maybe at the the university level, because I was just thinking back as I went through marketing classes.
00:30:09.119 --> 00:30:14.960
This is a book that I would have actually really enjoyed reading and and would have gotten a lot out of.
00:30:15.039 --> 00:30:17.680
And so, man, I I know it's freshly new.
00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:19.359
I know it just was released.
00:30:19.440 --> 00:30:30.240
And so um, I'm excited in the coming months to talk with you more to just to see all the potential that that it's moved through and and the impact it's having on people who are reading it and to hear some of the things that they're saying to you.
00:30:30.400 --> 00:30:34.000
And and hopefully we can work together and get this in in quite a few hands.
00:30:34.079 --> 00:30:42.160
Because again, I think it's just a really good book that people can take things from and implement rather easily into what they're trying to build.
00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:46.480
And so, man, if this was this was better than the first conversation.
00:30:46.640 --> 00:30:50.079
Again, I think it's just because I'm at a different spot in what I'm building.
00:30:50.160 --> 00:31:00.000
So this book really resonated with me personally, but I know you have a lot more work to do too, and you've got probably, I don't know how many projects you ever have going on at once.
00:31:00.160 --> 00:31:02.960
You've started different businesses and launched different products.
00:31:03.039 --> 00:31:07.599
I'm sure we're gonna have more conversations with more books that come out like this one.
00:31:08.160 --> 00:31:10.400
Yeah, there's a couple of things going on right now.
00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:13.519
On my website, jasonboyovich.com.
00:31:13.839 --> 00:31:16.400
You can see there are a couple of things going on.
00:31:16.559 --> 00:31:24.799
One is I'm using the method in that book that's full of historical case studies, quick things that it's like a coaching book.
00:31:24.880 --> 00:31:26.960
You can start to put those into action right now.
00:31:27.200 --> 00:31:37.839
On the website, I'm publishing research in public on, you know, I did one on what are the timing implications like for the cyclocipriasis outbreak.
00:31:38.079 --> 00:31:40.160
Why was that so hard to solve?
00:31:40.319 --> 00:31:44.640
You know, that the stomach flu thing where you had the explosive diarrhea, that one.
00:31:44.799 --> 00:31:45.680
Hopefully you didn't get it.
00:31:45.759 --> 00:31:47.839
If you're listening to this and you had it, God bless you.
00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:49.279
I'm very sorry.
00:31:50.079 --> 00:31:56.400
But I wrote a whole essay using the ideas in that book on why was that so hard to figure out?
00:31:56.559 --> 00:32:07.599
And it's a timing problem because the, you know, because it was a fast moving produce like lettuce goes bad in your fridge in a few days, but you're not sick for two weeks.
00:32:07.759 --> 00:32:14.640
So if you're going back to try to figure out what you ate, you can't test the lettuce anymore because it's in the garbage, it's gone.
00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:17.279
So it there is that timing gap.
00:32:17.359 --> 00:32:24.559
I wrote my latest one is on e-bikes, and I'm working on a new one about the wine industry and what's going on right now.
00:32:24.799 --> 00:32:34.640
All timing issues that help make the ideas in the book like, oh, I totally get it, and here's why it's important right now, not just the historical stuff.
00:32:34.799 --> 00:32:36.559
And like, oh, I think I can apply that.
00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:49.119
It's like, hey, if you're in doing something with e-bikes right now, timing is the major issue, and you really need to read that essay, read the book, and it'll really start to click even more.
00:32:49.200 --> 00:32:50.400
So I'm doing that.
00:32:50.640 --> 00:33:08.640
And then I have a research project that I know you know about, Chris, where I am exploring how AI is changing the innovation process in terms of how fast it takes, the steps that are needed, and how people perceive that time and what's happening there.
00:33:08.799 --> 00:33:12.000
So that's active research kind of out there right now.
00:33:12.160 --> 00:33:14.720
The whole idea is I'm just watching more film.
00:33:14.880 --> 00:33:22.400
I'm doing more practicing because what my clients expect of me is when we're launching the product that it hits.
00:33:22.640 --> 00:33:24.240
I gotta make sure that I'm right.
00:33:24.400 --> 00:33:27.279
So I gotta watch film, I gotta practice, and that's what I'm doing.
00:33:27.359 --> 00:33:36.000
I'm kind of living what I'm suggesting that all of you do is get in there, read more books, watch more film, you'll be better.
00:33:36.240 --> 00:33:36.559
Yep.
00:33:36.640 --> 00:33:38.400
And that's uh another lesson I preach.
00:33:38.640 --> 00:33:45.839
The most successful people out there are continuing to stay curious and learn and grow and to be the best version of themselves.
00:33:46.000 --> 00:33:47.440
And so I appreciate you sharing that.
00:33:47.680 --> 00:33:56.799
And Jason, we'll make sure that your link is in all the notes so that anybody who's looking to follow some of that research you're doing and some of that stuff you're putting out there, they'll be able to find it.
00:33:56.960 --> 00:34:01.279
And so those will be easily accessible through all the episode platforms.
00:34:01.440 --> 00:34:02.559
We'll make sure that's there.
00:34:02.799 --> 00:34:04.480
But brother, this has been fun.
00:34:04.640 --> 00:34:09.760
I always look forward to talking with you and thank you for your support of Books for Guys.
00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:13.039
And man, excited to spotlight your work and just keep doing it, man.
00:34:13.119 --> 00:34:14.239
It's amazing.
00:34:14.559 --> 00:34:16.480
Guys, I I appreciate it, Chris.
00:34:16.719 --> 00:34:19.920
Everyone who's listening right now, you can get out there and do this.
00:34:20.079 --> 00:34:21.199
There are so many ways.
00:34:21.360 --> 00:34:27.679
If you're thinking, like, well, I don't have the what it takes to start a business or be creative or do this thing.
00:34:28.000 --> 00:34:28.559
You do.
00:34:28.880 --> 00:34:32.239
Timing is a kind of a pointy end of the stick.
00:34:32.400 --> 00:34:41.840
By doing something at just the right time, you concentrate all that force in a tiny little area, and you need far fewer resources than you think.
00:34:42.000 --> 00:34:52.159
So I want to show you how to do that because we need more creativity in the world and we need more young men stepping up to get their ideas out there and make positive change.
00:34:52.480 --> 00:34:53.199
Absolutely.
00:34:53.440 --> 00:34:54.559
Well said, Jason.
00:34:54.719 --> 00:34:55.760
Appreciate it, man.
00:34:56.079 --> 00:34:56.719
Thanks, Chris.
00:00:13.919 --> 00:00:14.960
I'm going to show your book.
00:00:15.199 --> 00:00:16.160
I've got it right here.
00:00:16.320 --> 00:00:17.359
Thank you for sending it.
00:00:17.519 --> 00:00:24.079
And I've talked to a lot of people, a lot of my friends know that time is something that fascinates me a lot.
00:00:24.239 --> 00:00:25.920
I think about it in different ways.
00:00:26.160 --> 00:00:36.719
And when I actually got your book in the mail, my first thought was, you know, without reading into it or knowing anything really about it, just the word now popped up.
00:00:36.799 --> 00:00:45.759
And I what I thought your book was going to be about was more in lines with if you're thinking of starting something or promoting something, like just go now.
00:00:45.920 --> 00:00:52.000
But completely different as you dive into a lot of different ways to think about time.
00:00:52.240 --> 00:00:58.640
I love how it's structured with myths about time before each of your chapters.
00:00:58.960 --> 00:01:04.159
Because actually, when I started scrolling through it, I started, I read those first on just some of the time myths.
00:01:04.239 --> 00:01:07.280
And there's a couple I want to talk about specifically because they just caught my attention.
00:01:07.519 --> 00:01:09.040
I like the way you described it.
00:01:09.200 --> 00:01:12.879
But nonetheless, man, this is your second time on the Books for Guys podcast.
00:01:12.959 --> 00:01:16.000
And it is uh, dude, it's an honor to have you back.
00:01:16.400 --> 00:01:18.560
No, it's it's really great to be here.
00:01:18.799 --> 00:01:33.120
I am a massive fan of the mission, uh, partly because, you know, when I was, you know, the target age, the people you're trying to meet, you know, you know, kids playing sports in high school, you know, middle school.
00:01:33.359 --> 00:01:36.159
I was the kind of guy that needed to read.
00:01:36.239 --> 00:01:39.760
And I discovered reading and I discovered history at that time.
00:01:39.920 --> 00:01:44.079
And the way I thought about it was it was like, it was like watching film.
00:01:44.400 --> 00:01:49.200
You know, if you're if you're thinking about like, I want to perform well in the game.
00:01:49.439 --> 00:01:54.799
Obviously, everyone knows you got to step up and be clutch when when the moment is there.
00:01:55.120 --> 00:01:56.959
But that means you got to be practicing.
00:01:57.040 --> 00:02:01.200
You got to take enough shots so that you know your body just acts on instinct.
00:02:01.439 --> 00:02:06.879
But what I learned at that time is every great player watches a lot of film.
00:02:07.040 --> 00:02:08.560
And that's where you kind of learn.
00:02:08.639 --> 00:02:17.919
That's where you get that unfair advantage where you're like, you can practice all you want, but if you practice doing the wrong thing, like, well, you're gonna perform as well as you practice.
00:02:18.159 --> 00:02:23.199
So watching film was the way to say, oh, I see how that guy protects the ball.
00:02:23.360 --> 00:02:27.199
I'm gonna practice that because I wanna get better at that.
00:02:27.520 --> 00:02:34.639
So when I thought about that, I discovered history at about the same time that I was learning that lesson.
00:02:34.800 --> 00:02:36.879
And I thought about it like watching film.
00:02:37.039 --> 00:02:40.400
Like I need to be able to see those patterns before others do.
00:02:40.479 --> 00:02:47.039
So if I'm gonna be successful as a creative person, as an innovator, someone who's gonna launch new products and have any success at all.
00:02:47.520 --> 00:02:54.319
Well, yeah, I can practice and I can make sure I'm doing it a lot and I'm kind of acting right when the moment comes.
00:02:54.639 --> 00:02:57.439
But history is kind of a cheat code.
00:02:57.520 --> 00:02:58.879
It's the unfair advantage.
00:02:58.960 --> 00:03:02.879
I get to learn from hundreds of people who have done it right and done it wrong.
00:03:03.120 --> 00:03:06.159
And that way I can practice doing it the right way.
00:03:06.400 --> 00:03:18.639
So I kind of the reason I'm such a big fan of Books for Guys, sponsor of Books for Guys, is other guys like me need to hear this lesson right now in high school because I did.
00:03:18.800 --> 00:03:21.759
And because I did, I became more successful.
00:03:22.080 --> 00:03:30.319
I'm 51 now and on my fourth business, launched hundreds of products, had some good success in life.
00:03:30.400 --> 00:03:35.840
I've been really blessed, been really lucky, but I practice hard and I watch a lot of film.
00:03:36.080 --> 00:03:39.840
And whatever young man needs to hear this right now, watch film.
00:03:39.919 --> 00:03:42.479
And that's where the history is, that's where the books are.
00:03:42.560 --> 00:03:44.479
And that's why I'm so obsessed with it.
00:03:44.719 --> 00:03:44.960
Yeah.
00:03:45.120 --> 00:03:46.479
There's a theme to all your books.
00:03:46.560 --> 00:03:51.439
I've learned something from every one of them because you do provide and you do it in an entertaining way.
00:03:51.520 --> 00:04:01.759
Yeah, there's a lot of history to them, and and you you do a really good way, like you create a path and a guide of here's what happened, and here's why this took place, and here's where we're at today.
00:04:01.840 --> 00:04:03.360
And this book's very similar.
00:04:03.520 --> 00:04:06.319
There's stories in there about what's taking place.
00:04:06.400 --> 00:04:14.800
And we talk about that all the time on this podcast about how books are such a blueprint for no matter what you're trying to accomplish, trying to build a business.
00:04:14.960 --> 00:04:22.240
There's books out there that you can take things from instead of going through it on your own and having all these headaches and roadblocks.
00:04:22.319 --> 00:04:23.519
You can skip some of those.
00:04:23.680 --> 00:04:31.040
If you'll take just a little bit of time to take some notes, read, read from someone who's already been there, done that, and your book does a really good thing.
00:04:31.120 --> 00:04:36.480
All your books do, again, I've learned from each of them because of the way you structure them and the stories you share.
00:04:36.639 --> 00:04:44.480
There's knowledge I've gained, there's cheat codes I've taken as I'm building books for guys and just thinking of things in different ways.
00:04:44.639 --> 00:04:47.439
And so I just like the fact that you're it's not, it's not a textbook.
00:04:47.519 --> 00:04:53.360
You you have fun stories to it, and I also learn from it, which is I think hard to do.
00:04:53.439 --> 00:04:55.040
A lot of books aren't like that.
00:04:55.519 --> 00:04:56.399
It's hard.
00:04:56.720 --> 00:05:00.160
I think about it this way, you know, you want to succeed at anything.
00:05:00.399 --> 00:05:04.240
You know, you've got to be, you know, like, what does success mean?
00:05:04.319 --> 00:05:10.319
It's being right, right moment in time with the right action, with the right people.
00:05:10.480 --> 00:05:11.680
All that stuff needs to be right.
00:05:11.759 --> 00:05:12.480
Well, how do you do that?
00:05:12.560 --> 00:05:13.759
Well, you got to practice.
00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:20.639
So you've got to be making sure that you're ready when that moment comes so that your body just acts on instinct.
00:05:20.800 --> 00:05:22.720
Your mind is sharp and it's ready.
00:05:22.879 --> 00:05:24.480
Well, how do you do that?
00:05:24.720 --> 00:05:26.319
How do you know what to practice?
00:05:26.560 --> 00:05:28.000
That's what the books are for.
00:05:28.079 --> 00:05:33.600
And the I consider my biggest challenge in writing these books isn't the idea.
00:05:33.839 --> 00:05:39.680
It's how to tell the idea in an entertaining way, because otherwise people won't listen to it.
00:05:39.759 --> 00:05:44.959
I mean, how many times was I in in high school and man, I hated high school?
00:05:45.120 --> 00:05:57.920
I hated school and I hated history class, I hated all of this stuff until I started to get good teachers and eventually in college, good professors who told stories.
00:05:58.079 --> 00:06:03.199
And when they told the story, and I was really excited and engaged by that, I'm like, wow, holy shit.
00:06:03.360 --> 00:06:08.319
I really want to know why Julius Caesar did it this way at this time.
00:06:08.480 --> 00:06:10.079
I kind of want to get into his head.
00:06:10.240 --> 00:06:13.759
And I learned more about the Romans at that time.
00:06:13.839 --> 00:06:15.759
Or I wanted to learn more about Edison.
00:06:16.079 --> 00:06:18.240
Like, ah, why was he such a dick?
00:06:18.480 --> 00:06:19.839
Because he was kind of a dick.
00:06:20.000 --> 00:06:22.160
Like, why was he still successful?
00:06:22.319 --> 00:06:24.000
And so I went and I learned about it.
00:06:24.160 --> 00:06:30.800
But I wouldn't have learned about it had it just like, well, here's the list of inventions Edison had and kind of the dates and the times.
00:06:31.120 --> 00:06:37.120
Like, imagine if they started the conversation with so everyone knows Edison was a dick.
00:06:37.279 --> 00:06:40.480
Immediately you would probably go, something's interesting here.
00:06:40.639 --> 00:06:42.319
Yeah, somebody started to be real with me.
00:06:42.480 --> 00:06:43.920
Yeah, somebody started to be real.
00:06:44.319 --> 00:06:46.639
Give me something that like grabs my attention like that.
00:06:46.720 --> 00:06:48.959
And I'm like, well, what are they about to say next?
00:06:49.120 --> 00:06:53.680
Not just, here we go, turn to chapter 35 in this book, you know.
00:06:54.399 --> 00:06:55.600
That's that's the thing.
00:06:55.680 --> 00:07:00.000
When you get to you listen to some of these, uh, you know, read my books.
00:07:00.240 --> 00:07:04.160
Like I listened to Dan Carlin's podcast, Hardcore History.
00:07:04.319 --> 00:07:11.600
And if you really want to understand just what he talks about, kind of the extremes of human experience from a historical perspective.
00:07:11.839 --> 00:07:20.319
So it's about like it wasn't like, well, Alexander the Great went to this place and beat this guy in this battle at this date, at this place.
00:07:21.120 --> 00:07:23.920
He's what was going through Alexander's head?
00:07:24.079 --> 00:07:25.439
How was he thinking about it?
00:07:25.600 --> 00:07:32.079
How is he playing the psychological game on that opponent so that he beat him before he even showed up?
00:07:32.319 --> 00:07:43.120
Because that's the sort of thing that whatever you're excited about, you can take from that and say, in the next game I'm at, I'm gonna try to psych the guy out in that same way.
00:07:43.279 --> 00:07:47.680
Or, you know what, I'm thinking about starting up my own business when I graduate high school.
00:07:48.000 --> 00:07:51.680
Maybe I need to kind of do it like Edison did this thing.
00:07:51.839 --> 00:07:56.480
Like, those are the sort of things you learn, and you just never would have thought of them otherwise.
00:07:56.560 --> 00:08:02.720
Like there's so many things that people did that are good ideas and a lot of bad ideas, of course.
00:08:02.959 --> 00:08:10.959
But it's you get to learn from all of those people, not just your own gut or your own practice or the people in your immediate area.
00:08:11.120 --> 00:08:13.279
There's so much more than that.
00:08:13.600 --> 00:08:17.759
Well, and this goes right into the first thing that caught my eye on Jason.
00:08:17.839 --> 00:08:19.600
And and I'll have you explain a little bit.
00:08:19.680 --> 00:08:29.519
And maybe it caught my eye because it was like at the front of the book, and I was like, oh, that's an interesting uh I immediately resonated with it because it does correlate with some of the stuff that I'm trying to build.
00:08:29.680 --> 00:08:34.559
But your very first timing myth is first movers always have the advantage.
00:08:34.799 --> 00:08:35.519
That's a myth.
00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:37.759
First movers always have the advantage.
00:08:37.919 --> 00:08:46.159
And I think that correlates a lot with what you're saying right now is you can learn a lot from the people that that start first and you can figure out things a little better.
00:08:46.240 --> 00:08:47.919
But but talk about that in your own words.
00:08:48.000 --> 00:08:54.480
Because when I was, when I first opened your book, I immediately was like, before I read anything about it, I was like, this is what I'm talking about.
00:08:54.639 --> 00:08:56.000
You can learn from other people.
00:08:56.159 --> 00:09:00.960
But what was your thoughts as you put that first chapter and that first myth together?
00:09:01.519 --> 00:09:10.399
I like it when I think about timing and when I looked at it through that lens, I thought, what is the thing that people talk to me about all the time?
00:09:10.480 --> 00:09:14.879
And it's almost reflexive that, like, hey, we need to have first mover advantage.
00:09:15.039 --> 00:09:16.639
You want to be the first one out.
00:09:16.799 --> 00:09:18.799
That's the most important thing.
00:09:19.039 --> 00:09:22.559
Well, I just knew from my own experience, I'm like, well, that's BS.
00:09:22.639 --> 00:09:24.159
It just never works.
00:09:24.320 --> 00:09:28.240
And I actually tried to find good examples of when it did.
00:09:28.480 --> 00:09:30.159
And there are preciously few of them.
00:09:30.240 --> 00:09:36.240
There are just so many examples of people think, like, well, you know, Apple was the first one out with these things.
00:09:36.399 --> 00:09:37.120
No, they weren't.
00:09:37.360 --> 00:09:40.080
Apple was not the first one out with a graphical user interface.
00:09:40.240 --> 00:09:41.840
They weren't the first personal computer.
00:09:42.000 --> 00:09:43.440
They weren't the first smartphone.
00:09:43.519 --> 00:09:45.279
They weren't the first music player.
00:09:45.440 --> 00:09:47.279
They weren't the first anything.
00:09:47.519 --> 00:09:55.200
What their strategy was and still is, is look at who's getting out there and taking all the hits.
00:09:55.440 --> 00:10:04.240
Look at the guy who is going out and running onto the field first without a good plan and just getting just getting crushed right out of the gate.
00:10:04.399 --> 00:10:14.240
Or, hey, 10 guys went out, eight of them got crushed, two kind of got around some defenders, and now they're kind of in the backfield a little bit, you know, use a metaphor.
00:10:14.480 --> 00:10:20.720
But they're not really, they don't know how to kind of go the distance because they don't have a good plan, but they made it through a little bit.
00:10:20.960 --> 00:10:25.279
You sit back, you're watching them, you always want to be the second mover.
00:10:25.519 --> 00:10:30.240
You want to look at who is out there, who went first, what hits did they take.
00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:34.000
Because that's going to be 80% of all of the lessons you need to learn.
00:10:34.240 --> 00:10:39.519
That first guy is going to take all of those hits and say, Oh, got it.
00:10:39.679 --> 00:10:41.679
I see what they did wrong.
00:10:41.840 --> 00:10:43.360
I'm going to fix those things.
00:10:43.600 --> 00:10:49.919
I might still take a couple of hits out there, but I'm 80% ahead of where they am or where they're where they are.
00:10:50.080 --> 00:10:55.679
And yeah, they might be out in the market first, but think about what happens when you are in the market first with anything.
00:10:55.919 --> 00:10:59.679
You have to teach the market what your product is and why it's good.
00:10:59.919 --> 00:11:04.240
So you're doing a lot of education, not a lot of advertising.
00:11:04.559 --> 00:11:08.559
So you're spending a lot of money just teaching you why this is important.
00:11:08.639 --> 00:11:10.960
And okay, yeah, your product is the only one out there.
00:11:11.120 --> 00:11:12.639
So of course they're going to buy yours.
00:11:12.799 --> 00:11:19.600
Well, when that second company comes out with a better product, faster, well, now there are two products in the market.
00:11:19.759 --> 00:11:23.679
So all that work you did, you did 100% of the work to get the product out there.
00:11:23.840 --> 00:11:28.000
And now someone's going to come and take 50% of your business or probably take the whole business.
00:11:28.080 --> 00:11:30.000
And so what Facebook did to MySpace.
00:11:30.159 --> 00:11:33.759
Tech companies are masters at this, but it happens all the time.
00:11:33.919 --> 00:11:36.720
You can think about pretty much any domain out there.
00:11:37.360 --> 00:11:44.320
It's always the follow-up person that actually does is the most successful out there.
00:11:44.480 --> 00:11:52.080
So I wanted to make sure that people saw that that, hey, if you're not first, like people a lot of times will think, well, someone else had that idea.
00:11:52.799 --> 00:11:55.519
What you shouldn't be thinking is, well, that's not a good idea.
00:11:56.000 --> 00:12:01.519
The question you need to ask yourself is, okay, well, what makes that an interesting idea?
00:12:02.159 --> 00:12:03.600
What are they doing right now?
00:12:03.759 --> 00:12:05.840
They're spending time educating the market.
00:12:06.240 --> 00:12:08.000
Where are they making a mistake?
00:12:08.559 --> 00:12:17.039
You know, look at that and say, okay, when I launch my product, here's how I'm going to make mine a little bit different, and I'm not going to make those eight mistakes.
00:12:17.200 --> 00:12:19.679
And your entry into the market will be so much easier.
00:12:19.840 --> 00:12:27.120
So if you're thinking about starting something and you're young, you don't have the money to go around and educate the market.
00:12:27.279 --> 00:12:32.080
You should be following behind in the slipstream of someone else who's already doing it.
00:12:32.240 --> 00:12:35.840
And that is just proven to be successful for hundreds of years.
00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:37.120
That's the strategy.
00:12:37.279 --> 00:12:41.039
And it just it kind of pisses me off that more people don't know that.
00:12:41.360 --> 00:12:43.279
But you know, now you do.
00:12:43.759 --> 00:12:45.600
So yeah, you know, don't screw it up.
00:12:46.240 --> 00:12:47.440
It's a tried and true method.
00:12:47.600 --> 00:12:55.519
And I was thinking about just examples of that because I listen to business podcasts all the time, and they'll say the like people businesses.
00:12:55.600 --> 00:12:58.559
I hate, I hear people all the time say, Well, that's already out there, that's already out there.
00:12:58.639 --> 00:13:06.720
But people, there's so many things you can go fine-tune and make just a little bit better and be able to sell a product or to to offer a service.
00:13:06.799 --> 00:13:08.159
There's so many people out there, too.
00:13:08.240 --> 00:13:11.360
Like, not every product is touching, you know, every single person.
00:13:11.600 --> 00:13:13.759
But I was thinking of it too, like just investing.
00:13:14.000 --> 00:13:15.279
People are always trying to do different things.
00:13:15.440 --> 00:13:19.039
It's like, no, just stick to the the method, it always works.
00:13:19.200 --> 00:13:26.799
You know, like people, there's lots of newsletters out there, but if you have something different, interesting, like you can make a newsletter successful.
00:13:26.879 --> 00:13:28.399
Still today, a podcast.
00:13:28.480 --> 00:13:31.759
There's new podcasts becoming number one all the time, you know.
00:13:31.840 --> 00:13:38.559
Like it because same with products, just you can find your little niche, your little changeup, follow their blueprint up to a certain point.
00:13:38.639 --> 00:13:41.519
You can do your twist on it, and bam, there you go.
00:13:41.759 --> 00:13:46.080
Like, don't you don't have to reinvent the wheel, just make the wheel a little better.
00:13:46.320 --> 00:13:48.559
Yeah, just uh put a different tire on it.
00:13:48.879 --> 00:13:53.200
Yeah, I think people overplay how much they need to do in order to differentiate.
00:13:53.279 --> 00:13:56.080
They think they need to differentiate the entire thing.
00:13:56.320 --> 00:13:58.960
It's like, well, no, what do people care about?
00:13:59.200 --> 00:14:03.519
And that's what you're watching when you're seeing the first mover out there.
00:14:03.679 --> 00:14:07.120
You're seeing what you're not watching is as much what they're doing.
00:14:07.279 --> 00:14:09.840
You're watching how customers are reacting to it.
00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:11.360
What are they asking for?
00:14:11.519 --> 00:14:17.840
What of the 10 features, what's the one thing that everybody is really gung-ho for?
00:14:18.000 --> 00:14:21.519
Well, make sure that when you think about that, okay, well, here's my offer.
00:14:21.679 --> 00:14:32.399
I'm gonna make sure to focus on that one thing that I know people are really excited about, make that thing better, and essentially do the rest of the things like, hey, don't waste time on those things.
00:14:32.559 --> 00:14:33.679
They've already figured it out.
00:14:33.919 --> 00:14:42.720
Do basically the same thing there, but differentiate on the one thing that you've observed customers really want and they really want to pay attention to.
00:14:42.879 --> 00:14:44.879
When you do that, you win.
00:14:45.120 --> 00:14:52.320
It's a, hey, I've got everything that Chris has, but my thing is better in this specific way than I know you really want.
00:14:52.559 --> 00:14:53.519
Like, you win.
00:14:53.679 --> 00:14:56.799
That's another thing I like about your book, Jason, the way you write.
00:14:57.039 --> 00:15:00.159
It's not that you're telling people like not to do something.
00:15:00.320 --> 00:15:06.480
You're almost saying, like, hey, here's where maybe you could get hung up, but here's how you could approach it a little bit differently and be successful.
00:15:06.559 --> 00:15:09.759
So it's not one of those, like, don't do this, only do this.
00:15:09.919 --> 00:15:14.240
It's like, here's some examples of why this may not be totally accurate.
00:15:14.559 --> 00:15:16.240
Here's the other side of that.
00:15:16.559 --> 00:15:19.600
And so you you kind of like reality, give hope.
00:15:19.759 --> 00:15:20.960
Reality, give hope.
00:15:21.120 --> 00:15:25.120
And uh that's kind of how each chapter was reading to me, like, huh, how am I thinking about this wrong?
00:15:25.519 --> 00:15:26.879
I see what Jason's trying to teach me.
00:15:26.960 --> 00:15:27.840
This makes a lot of sense.
00:15:27.919 --> 00:15:29.600
So it kind of opened up the way I thought.
00:15:29.679 --> 00:15:34.159
Um, and this kind of goes in because we were talking about people creating, you know, the first thing or whatever.
00:15:34.320 --> 00:15:41.519
Another thing that caught my eye, and I love the way you you describe this, and it was know the difference between invention and innovation.
00:15:41.679 --> 00:15:47.039
And I'm not gonna read the whole paragraph, but you have invention is often a solo performance.
00:15:47.279 --> 00:15:50.240
Innovation is an can you explain your thoughts a little bit?
00:15:50.399 --> 00:15:53.440
Because the I just read that first sentence and I was like, makes a lot of sense.
00:15:53.519 --> 00:15:55.279
I think I know where Jason's going with this.
00:15:55.360 --> 00:15:59.039
And it was it was worded beautifully the way that you described it.
00:15:59.360 --> 00:16:00.799
No, I appreciate that.
00:16:01.120 --> 00:16:08.240
We tend to use invention and innovation and creativity interchangeably, but they're not.
00:16:08.480 --> 00:16:14.639
It is important for you guys, young men listening to this, you gotta understand the difference between those two things.
00:16:14.879 --> 00:16:19.120
An invention is something that you are doing creatively in your own head.
00:16:19.200 --> 00:16:20.799
And it's it's your idea.
00:16:20.960 --> 00:16:24.720
It's you kind of thinking about it, writing it down, practicing it yourself.
00:16:24.879 --> 00:16:25.200
Okay.
00:16:25.919 --> 00:16:36.159
Innovation is when that works in a game against a real opponent, in the kind of in the moment, in the system with okay, the rest of your teammates.
00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:44.159
And you can think about that in a sports context or a band context or a you know, business context, doesn't really matter.
00:16:44.480 --> 00:16:50.159
Invention is your own mental process, your own practice, which is vital.
00:16:50.240 --> 00:16:51.519
You have to do that.
00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:57.200
But innovation is when you make your opponent react differently to you.
00:16:57.360 --> 00:16:59.039
Now you know you've innovated.
00:16:59.200 --> 00:17:06.880
In a business context, that means that, like, hey, I've got a better mouse trap, but if no one buys it and no one uses it, I have not innovated.
00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:09.839
I've invented, but I haven't innovated.
00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:17.759
Most people don't know that 80% or more of all patents that are active right now, not like expired, you know, the 25 years.
00:17:18.079 --> 00:17:20.559
80% of patents aren't being used at all.
00:17:21.279 --> 00:17:22.240
They're just sitting there.
00:17:22.400 --> 00:17:25.200
Like people think like, oh, you got a patent, you're making bank.
00:17:25.440 --> 00:17:31.200
Most people, the vast majority of people make nothing off a patent because they've invented.
00:17:31.519 --> 00:17:35.359
But innovation is a customer saying, I'm going to hand over money for that.
00:17:36.079 --> 00:17:38.000
There is a big, big difference.
00:17:38.160 --> 00:17:43.440
Like, how many times have you practiced a particular move for a game and it just doesn't work?
00:17:43.680 --> 00:17:45.839
You've invented, but you haven't innovated.
00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:52.000
You've innovated when you smoke that guy and he's gone and he doesn't know how to react to you.
00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:53.759
Now you've innovated.
00:17:54.079 --> 00:17:55.599
So there is a difference.
00:17:55.759 --> 00:18:09.200
And I want to just, there are a lot of different ways to think about that metaphorically, but whatever works for you in understanding the difference between those two things as you're listening to this, once you know it, you won't forget it again.
00:18:09.279 --> 00:18:11.680
Like, oh, I got to do both things.
00:18:12.079 --> 00:18:23.359
But real creativity and where you make money and where you have success is when other people react to you and they say, you've done something really cool and I want a part of that.
00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:28.079
I'm going to part with money, or I'm going to, you know, I'm going to try to copy that.
00:18:28.319 --> 00:18:32.799
That's usually how you know you're on to something, is it other people are trying to copy that move?
00:18:32.960 --> 00:18:43.759
So it's, you know, and I talk about that also, Chris, in the context of, you know, when you think about innovating and you're working with other people, think about it from a you're on the field metaphor.
00:18:43.839 --> 00:18:47.279
And this is like more like team sports, not like tennis or something.
00:18:47.599 --> 00:18:54.079
But you've got your own team, you've got the other team, you've got the rules of the game, you have a whole mix of things going on.
00:18:54.240 --> 00:18:58.319
That's kind of what the orchestra metaphor is for from kind of a band perspective.
00:18:58.559 --> 00:19:10.799
That, yeah, you can be playing your own instrument, you can have your own game, but if you're not in sync with your team and the other team is doing something that you're not responding to, you're in a lot of trouble.
00:19:11.039 --> 00:19:18.720
So the innovation process is not just you practicing, but you knowing, okay, my teammates, I know they're practicing that.
00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:20.240
I know what their strengths are.
00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:23.119
I'm going to practice to complement that strength.
00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:27.759
And I'm watching enough film to know what the opposing team's going to be doing.
00:19:27.920 --> 00:19:29.200
I'm studying that.
00:19:29.440 --> 00:19:31.839
I'm kind of working all of those angles together.
00:19:31.920 --> 00:19:34.079
It's kind of what a good coach will help you do.
00:19:34.559 --> 00:19:39.599
You know, that's what great coaches do, is they help understand how all the pieces get together.
00:19:40.160 --> 00:19:44.319
Think about the innovation process as you got to be your own coach.
00:19:44.640 --> 00:19:47.279
Like that's what is special about that.
00:19:47.440 --> 00:19:50.079
Like, oh, I got to think like a coach, not a player.
00:19:50.400 --> 00:19:52.480
Inventors think like players.
00:19:52.960 --> 00:19:54.640
Innovators think like coaches.
00:19:54.799 --> 00:19:55.680
That's the difference.
00:19:55.920 --> 00:19:56.319
Yeah.
00:19:56.559 --> 00:19:57.440
I love that.
00:19:57.759 --> 00:19:59.599
Man, it made it this makes so much sense.
00:19:59.680 --> 00:20:01.440
As I was reading, I mean, everything was clicking.
00:20:01.519 --> 00:20:04.160
And I just, again, it's not something I think about every day.
00:20:04.319 --> 00:20:09.279
I probably, there probably will be things that I think about as I build certain things out now.
00:20:09.519 --> 00:20:11.200
So I think your book's incredible.
00:20:11.359 --> 00:20:14.079
I'm not going to go through all the myths because all of them are awesome.
00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:21.920
I love how each chapter starts, but there was one other one that I wanted to get your take on because I understand what you were saying.
00:20:22.079 --> 00:20:25.680
I also want to kind of like ask you how to compare the two.
00:20:25.759 --> 00:20:30.720
So one of the other myths, uh, and it was timing myth four, customers will wait for better features.
00:20:30.880 --> 00:20:39.920
And I was thinking of this in terms of, you know, I've even said myself, like, I'm gonna wait and get the next iPhone when it's, you know, better than this, this one.
00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:43.440
But there's so many people that go out and just buy that phone, and I end up buying it too.
00:20:43.599 --> 00:20:52.720
But I was thinking of it in terms too of the first point we talked about, where we were talking about first, you know, you don't have to be first to the market to sell.
00:20:52.880 --> 00:20:59.759
And I was kind of just curious, like how you differentiated those two, because the way I was thinking about it was you could be first, even if you don't have all the features.
00:20:59.920 --> 00:21:03.359
The second person could could make something with better features and take the market.
00:21:03.440 --> 00:21:08.000
But that doesn't mean the first person's not successful by putting something out there first.
00:21:08.319 --> 00:21:10.319
So just how were you differentiating that?
00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:11.839
And can you dive in a little to both?
00:21:11.920 --> 00:21:15.440
Because I was thinking of both as I got to that myth.
00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:27.359
Yeah, there's uh people are thinking about it, it's really how you're thinking about your invention, your innovation, you know, as you're putting together.
00:21:27.599 --> 00:21:39.119
Most people think about it in terms of the me, my product, my features that I'm going to have in my product, and how are those, how is the market going to respond to that?
00:21:39.599 --> 00:21:40.799
Which is fine.
00:21:41.200 --> 00:21:42.640
You kind of have to do that.
00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:51.359
But what I see with successful innovators is they flip that and they think in terms of what their customer needs.
00:21:51.680 --> 00:21:54.559
What are their, what are their emotional pain points?
00:21:54.720 --> 00:21:58.400
How are they viewing urgency from a timing perspective?
00:21:58.559 --> 00:22:07.279
We think about I in the Book, I talk a lot about perceptual time, like how people think about time outside of just a calendar or a sequence.
00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:11.119
That's how people think about time, like, is it going fast or is it going slow?
00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:12.160
Am I in pain?
00:22:12.319 --> 00:22:14.480
I need an urgent solution right now.
00:22:15.039 --> 00:22:21.279
Successful innovators think about their customer 80% of the time and their own product 20% of the time.
00:22:21.519 --> 00:22:29.039
So they're thinking about not the feature that's going to do it, it's what is the situation that's happening for them right now.
00:22:29.440 --> 00:22:35.920
And I like to think about it in terms of okay, let's say the easiest example is a simple one.
00:22:36.079 --> 00:22:42.079
If you just bought a car, you went out, you bought a car, and 10 days later, you see an ad for another car.
00:22:42.240 --> 00:22:43.200
Are you paying attention?
00:22:44.079 --> 00:22:44.400
No.
00:22:44.799 --> 00:22:45.279
Of course not.
00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:46.079
You just bought a car.
00:22:46.240 --> 00:22:51.519
You might pay a little attention because you're still in the mental mind, but are you ready to buy another car?
00:22:51.839 --> 00:22:52.799
Most people aren't.
00:22:52.960 --> 00:22:56.799
I mean, there are a few who, you know, who who will do that.
00:22:56.960 --> 00:23:01.839
But for most of us, most normal people, you bought a car, you're kind of done.
00:23:02.079 --> 00:23:04.480
You just left a restaurant and you ate.
00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:06.799
Are you ready to go to the next restaurant?
00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:07.440
No.
00:23:07.680 --> 00:23:14.160
You got to be thinking about like what's going on in that person's head at that particular time and how urgent it is.
00:23:14.559 --> 00:23:32.240
So it's all a matter of if you're saying, hey, I need another 10 months to get this next set of features in, but people have urgency right now, figure out what is the urgency that's driving the purchase right now, and say, you know what, those other nine things can wait.
00:23:32.799 --> 00:23:34.880
Like, I'm going to work on that one thing.
00:23:35.119 --> 00:23:46.160
I hate to use the example too often, but in 07, 08, when Apple launched the first iPhone, uh, you know, some of the most people listen to this be old enough to either remember that or have heard of it.
00:23:46.400 --> 00:23:51.599
Most people who are younger might not have really realized what the reaction in the market was to that.
00:23:51.839 --> 00:23:53.440
It was like, nah.
00:23:53.839 --> 00:23:54.799
I think it's dumb.
00:23:54.880 --> 00:23:56.240
Like it doesn't do anything.
00:23:56.720 --> 00:23:58.000
It really didn't do much.
00:23:58.160 --> 00:24:02.960
It was basically like a little web browser and it had email and it didn't have a keyboard.
00:24:03.119 --> 00:24:04.400
That was a big deal at the time.
00:24:04.480 --> 00:24:08.079
All the blackberries had keyboards, so it was like, this thing's a joke.
00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:16.799
But it it had the one feature that people were kind of urgent for right now was like, I want something that's kind of cool.
00:24:17.119 --> 00:24:19.680
Like Blackberries weren't cool, they just weren't.
00:24:19.759 --> 00:24:21.200
They were kind of a business thing.
00:24:21.359 --> 00:24:27.920
You had it, like, yo, they were kind of a sign that you were kind of a corporate grinder and you were kind of a nothing.
00:24:28.079 --> 00:24:32.319
And iPhone was like, wow, I kind of want that, but I'm the cool kid.
00:24:32.480 --> 00:24:33.039
I want that.
00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:34.160
It had style.
00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:38.799
So Apple focused on like, hey, I'm gonna let the other stuff go.
00:24:38.960 --> 00:24:46.640
I'm gonna focus on releasing something that is really, really cool right now, knowing that, hey, in a few months I'm gonna have a new one.
00:24:46.799 --> 00:24:48.559
And another year I'm gonna have something better.
00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:50.400
It's gonna only get better.
00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:56.880
But they focused on the one thing, their differentiator, because BlackBerry was first to the market.
00:24:57.039 --> 00:24:58.079
They were second.
00:24:58.319 --> 00:25:03.359
They knew I don't have to be as good as BlackBerry on a tech spec perspective.
00:25:03.759 --> 00:25:05.440
I just need to be cooler than them.
00:25:05.680 --> 00:25:10.480
And Steve Jobs, for all his faults, was really good at being cooler than you.
00:25:10.799 --> 00:25:11.119
Yeah.
00:25:11.599 --> 00:25:16.319
You know, so that's kind of what I'm getting at when people think about time.
00:25:16.720 --> 00:25:26.960
I I think one of the underlying lessons in the whole book is a good competitor, obviously, you know, you know, a good athlete obviously is working on their game all the time.
00:25:27.599 --> 00:25:36.400
But they are also, you know, obsessed about how am I, you know, how am I gonna beat these guys out there?
00:25:36.559 --> 00:25:40.400
They are obsessed with the game and they really think about that.
00:25:40.960 --> 00:25:43.680
So yeah, that's how I'd how I'd reconcile those.
00:25:43.759 --> 00:25:50.000
You think more about your audience than you think about what your offer is, and they will tell you what they want.
00:25:50.240 --> 00:25:53.599
It just takes some humility to get out there and listen.
00:25:53.839 --> 00:25:58.400
No, that's that's the tricky part because you have a good, good idea and you fall in love with your idea.
00:25:58.559 --> 00:26:04.400
And what you want to do is you want to fall in love with your audience's need, want, and problem.
00:26:04.640 --> 00:26:06.400
Don't fall in love with your solution.
00:26:06.640 --> 00:26:09.680
Man, Jason, there's so there's so many good.
00:26:10.160 --> 00:26:20.160
Again, this is one of those books you could you could go back to for just reminders, if nothing else, to kind of look through and go, okay, I've I need to change the way I'm thinking about this, or if you're stuck somewhere.
00:26:20.319 --> 00:26:32.559
I mean, I'm even thinking like in a college marketing class, like how much I would have enjoyed reading this to get pointers, and maybe I'm trying to be entrepreneurial and I'm trying to create a business or a product.
00:26:32.640 --> 00:26:46.400
Like, and and I would love to, we can talk more about trying to to get this maybe into some universities because I could see where students would, instead of just reading examples through a textbook, again, having something like this that gives just real-world examples and stories.
00:26:46.559 --> 00:26:51.359
So you're it almost like motivates me to want to start another business or something too.
00:26:51.440 --> 00:26:52.799
Cause I'm like, okay, this makes sense.
00:26:52.880 --> 00:26:54.880
Let me try this and we'll do it better this time.
00:26:55.039 --> 00:27:05.119
Um, but I just love again, uh the way that you've written it, and it's not a long read, it's broken up in pieces to where it's easy to go, hey, myth, myth number five, cool, what's the lesson behind it?
00:27:05.279 --> 00:27:07.680
Myth number seven, cool, what's the lesson behind it?
00:27:07.839 --> 00:27:13.119
So for me, it was easy for me to take things from without having to go too deep into it.
00:27:13.200 --> 00:27:21.599
It's something I was able to like kind of glance at, and I read the whole thing, but there were points where I was like, this is interesting, what's he got to say about that?
00:27:21.759 --> 00:27:25.599
And I was able in 10 minutes to get what your lesson was there.
00:27:25.839 --> 00:27:28.480
And so I just I'm a big fan of the way you wrote this book.
00:27:28.559 --> 00:27:30.000
It's it's different from your other books.
00:27:30.079 --> 00:27:32.640
Obviously, there's history, but your other books are much longer.
00:27:32.799 --> 00:27:39.440
Also, more they're enjoyable too, but this is just kind of a different, different style overall than what you know those two books were.
00:27:39.519 --> 00:27:46.799
And this, I found this just to be very, I don't know, maybe because I'm further along and what I'm trying to build, it just there were things that I was able to catch.
00:27:47.119 --> 00:28:04.319
But I really do think, especially young people, old people too, you know, whatever, but you know, people who are inspired to build something, I think this would be a great book to read as you're doing that because it may set you up to do things a little bit better and think a little differently as you're going through some of these stages.
00:28:04.720 --> 00:28:12.480
I think the biggest thing I want to show people in the book is that, you know, of all the things you got to think about.
00:28:12.640 --> 00:28:13.920
My dad was in the business.
00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:16.079
Uh, he was he was a creative director.
00:28:16.240 --> 00:28:18.559
And he used to say, you know, things he learned.
00:28:18.640 --> 00:28:22.720
He was in the madmen era of advertising, you know, kids look that up.
00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:23.920
It was a good show.
00:28:24.480 --> 00:28:31.200
Basically said one of the many lessons was anyone will buy almost anything at the right time.
00:28:32.160 --> 00:28:39.440
So, you know, when you think about in business-to-business marketing, which I do a lot of, we have something called the 95-5 rule.
00:28:39.599 --> 00:28:50.960
It means that even if you identified your target market 100% perfectly, you knew these are the buyers for my software or for my product or whatever.
00:28:51.279 --> 00:28:56.640
Only 5% of those buyers will be ready to buy at any given time on average.
00:28:56.880 --> 00:29:12.160
Your trick is to find that out and find out what those triggers are so that when you have all of those messages that you know, like in 708, if you were launching the iPhone and I had just bought a Blackberry, am I buying the iPhone?
00:29:12.400 --> 00:29:14.319
Probably not the first one for sure.
00:29:14.480 --> 00:29:16.720
I'm gonna wait till the next cycle.
00:29:16.960 --> 00:29:21.359
So you got to be playing the long game and timing is critical.
00:29:21.519 --> 00:29:25.839
And most people don't have a really good idea of how to think about time constructively.
00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:31.599
They think like, well, what day to launch or what time of the year or whatever.
00:29:31.839 --> 00:29:35.279
And it's so much more intense than that.
00:29:35.440 --> 00:29:40.640
And I wanted to give people a way to think about it that they won't be able to forget once they know it.
00:29:40.720 --> 00:29:46.640
And we'll be able to help them be creative and innovative in ways that will help make them more successful.
00:29:46.880 --> 00:29:47.839
Absolutely love it, man.
00:29:47.920 --> 00:29:50.160
We've got it, we've got it posted on the website.
00:29:50.319 --> 00:29:54.319
We'll have it posted on on every other channel of ours.
00:29:54.480 --> 00:29:57.680
And again, we're we're excited to spotlight this book.
00:29:57.759 --> 00:30:08.960
Uh Jason, I'm excited to talk with you more too about just how to get it in other in more people's hands, especially maybe at the the university level, because I was just thinking back as I went through marketing classes.
00:30:09.119 --> 00:30:14.960
This is a book that I would have actually really enjoyed reading and and would have gotten a lot out of.
00:30:15.039 --> 00:30:17.680
And so, man, I I know it's freshly new.
00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:19.359
I know it just was released.
00:30:19.440 --> 00:30:30.240
And so um, I'm excited in the coming months to talk with you more to just to see all the potential that that it's moved through and and the impact it's having on people who are reading it and to hear some of the things that they're saying to you.
00:30:30.400 --> 00:30:34.000
And and hopefully we can work together and get this in in quite a few hands.
00:30:34.079 --> 00:30:42.160
Because again, I think it's just a really good book that people can take things from and implement rather easily into what they're trying to build.
00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:46.480
And so, man, if this was this was better than the first conversation.
00:30:46.640 --> 00:30:50.079
Again, I think it's just because I'm at a different spot in what I'm building.
00:30:50.160 --> 00:31:00.000
So this book really resonated with me personally, but I know you have a lot more work to do too, and you've got probably, I don't know how many projects you ever have going on at once.
00:31:00.160 --> 00:31:02.960
You've started different businesses and launched different products.
00:31:03.039 --> 00:31:07.599
I'm sure we're gonna have more conversations with more books that come out like this one.
00:31:08.160 --> 00:31:10.400
Yeah, there's a couple of things going on right now.
00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:13.519
On my website, jasonboyovich.com.
00:31:13.839 --> 00:31:16.400
You can see there are a couple of things going on.
00:31:16.559 --> 00:31:24.799
One is I'm using the method in that book that's full of historical case studies, quick things that it's like a coaching book.
00:31:24.880 --> 00:31:26.960
You can start to put those into action right now.
00:31:27.200 --> 00:31:37.839
On the website, I'm publishing research in public on, you know, I did one on what are the timing implications like for the cyclocipriasis outbreak.
00:31:38.079 --> 00:31:40.160
Why was that so hard to solve?
00:31:40.319 --> 00:31:44.640
You know, that the stomach flu thing where you had the explosive diarrhea, that one.
00:31:44.799 --> 00:31:45.680
Hopefully you didn't get it.
00:31:45.759 --> 00:31:47.839
If you're listening to this and you had it, God bless you.
00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:49.279
I'm very sorry.
00:31:50.079 --> 00:31:56.400
But I wrote a whole essay using the ideas in that book on why was that so hard to figure out?
00:31:56.559 --> 00:32:07.599
And it's a timing problem because the, you know, because it was a fast moving produce like lettuce goes bad in your fridge in a few days, but you're not sick for two weeks.
00:32:07.759 --> 00:32:14.640
So if you're going back to try to figure out what you ate, you can't test the lettuce anymore because it's in the garbage, it's gone.
00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:17.279
So it there is that timing gap.
00:32:17.359 --> 00:32:24.559
I wrote my latest one is on e-bikes, and I'm working on a new one about the wine industry and what's going on right now.
00:32:24.799 --> 00:32:34.640
All timing issues that help make the ideas in the book like, oh, I totally get it, and here's why it's important right now, not just the historical stuff.
00:32:34.799 --> 00:32:36.559
And like, oh, I think I can apply that.
00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:49.119
It's like, hey, if you're in doing something with e-bikes right now, timing is the major issue, and you really need to read that essay, read the book, and it'll really start to click even more.
00:32:49.200 --> 00:32:50.400
So I'm doing that.
00:32:50.640 --> 00:33:08.640
And then I have a research project that I know you know about, Chris, where I am exploring how AI is changing the innovation process in terms of how fast it takes, the steps that are needed, and how people perceive that time and what's happening there.
00:33:08.799 --> 00:33:12.000
So that's active research kind of out there right now.
00:33:12.160 --> 00:33:14.720
The whole idea is I'm just watching more film.
00:33:14.880 --> 00:33:22.400
I'm doing more practicing because what my clients expect of me is when we're launching the product that it hits.
00:33:22.640 --> 00:33:24.240
I gotta make sure that I'm right.
00:33:24.400 --> 00:33:27.279
So I gotta watch film, I gotta practice, and that's what I'm doing.
00:33:27.359 --> 00:33:36.000
I'm kind of living what I'm suggesting that all of you do is get in there, read more books, watch more film, you'll be better.
00:33:36.240 --> 00:33:36.559
Yep.
00:33:36.640 --> 00:33:38.400
And that's uh another lesson I preach.
00:33:38.640 --> 00:33:45.839
The most successful people out there are continuing to stay curious and learn and grow and to be the best version of themselves.
00:33:46.000 --> 00:33:47.440
And so I appreciate you sharing that.
00:33:47.680 --> 00:33:56.799
And Jason, we'll make sure that your link is in all the notes so that anybody who's looking to follow some of that research you're doing and some of that stuff you're putting out there, they'll be able to find it.
00:33:56.960 --> 00:34:01.279
And so those will be easily accessible through all the episode platforms.
00:34:01.440 --> 00:34:02.559
We'll make sure that's there.
00:34:02.799 --> 00:34:04.480
But brother, this has been fun.
00:34:04.640 --> 00:34:09.760
I always look forward to talking with you and thank you for your support of Books for Guys.
00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:13.039
And man, excited to spotlight your work and just keep doing it, man.
00:34:13.119 --> 00:34:14.239
It's amazing.
00:34:14.559 --> 00:34:16.480
Guys, I I appreciate it, Chris.
00:34:16.719 --> 00:34:19.920
Everyone who's listening right now, you can get out there and do this.
00:34:20.079 --> 00:34:21.199
There are so many ways.
00:34:21.360 --> 00:34:27.679
If you're thinking, like, well, I don't have the what it takes to start a business or be creative or do this thing.
00:34:28.000 --> 00:34:28.559
You do.
00:34:28.880 --> 00:34:32.239
Timing is a kind of a pointy end of the stick.
00:34:32.400 --> 00:34:41.840
By doing something at just the right time, you concentrate all that force in a tiny little area, and you need far fewer resources than you think.
00:34:42.000 --> 00:34:52.159
So I want to show you how to do that because we need more creativity in the world and we need more young men stepping up to get their ideas out there and make positive change.
00:34:52.480 --> 00:34:53.199
Absolutely.
00:34:53.440 --> 00:34:54.559
Well said, Jason.
00:34:54.719 --> 00:34:55.760
Appreciate it, man.
00:34:56.079 --> 00:34:56.719
Thanks, Chris.
