Paul:
00:00:00
the lead to appointment conversion rate, which we talked about in a, in a
Paul:
00:00:03
previous, um, uh, previous podcast, uh, I said, I wouldn't be, uh, I wouldn't commit
Paul:
00:00:07
to a figure, but I said it would be very, very, very, very, very low, like less than
Paul:
00:00:11
1 percent low because MSPs have a very slow sales cycle, uh, prospects take so
Paul:
00:00:17
long or buyers take so long Choosing an MSP and they will stick with an incumbent
Paul:
00:00:22
for years past the point that they're dissatisfied, which slows everything down.
Paul:
00:00:26
So to take someone from being a lead, a lead is when you're like
Paul:
00:00:29
connected to them on LinkedIn or they're in your email database.
Paul:
00:00:32
To take them from being a lead to a sales meeting, tiny, tiny conversion
Paul:
00:00:36
rate, probably under what if you're doing over 1 percent you're doing well.
Paul:
00:00:40
Let's just say that.
Paul:
00:00:40
Now, what about a sales conversion rate?
Paul:
00:00:43
Completely the opposite.
Paul:
00:00:45
You should be, and again I'm not going to be committed to a figure because then
Paul:
00:00:48
you'll try and benchmark yourself against a figure that is based on the 700 odd
Paul:
00:00:53
MSPs that I talked to about this and thousands of other MSPs I've spoken to,
Paul:
00:00:56
there is no standard figure that I can give you that I'm happy committing to
Paul:
00:01:01
But I will give you a broad range, which is if you are not closing at least two
Paul:
00:01:07
out of three of the sales conversations that you're having, then you need to
Paul:
00:01:12
improve your sales process in some way.
Paul:
00:01:14
And by improving your sales process in some way, I don't just
Paul:
00:01:16
mean the actual sales meeting.
Paul:
00:01:18
There's a whole Set of things you can do around the sales meeting to improve it.
Paul:
00:01:22
And Steve asked me that as a question in a second.
Paul:
00:01:24
But why should your sales conversion rate be so high?
Paul:
00:01:27
Well, simply because as an MSP, you have very, very few sales meetings.
Paul:
00:01:31
You might have like one sales meeting a month, maybe even one every other month.
Paul:
00:01:35
And so when you, when you have so few sales meetings, you have
Paul:
00:01:38
to stack the odds in your favor.
Paul:
00:01:41
And that means you've got to go, you've got to pre qualify that they're
Paul:
00:01:43
a great prospect, as in they've got the right number of users, they've
Paul:
00:01:47
got the right kind of budget, they've got enough revenue, uh, all of these
Paul:
00:01:51
things need to be right for you.
Paul:
00:01:52
They're in a, they're in a sector or vertical or a, or a location, geographical
Paul:
00:01:56
location that you're happy working with.
Paul:
00:01:58
So if you go into it knowing that you can work with them.
Paul:
00:02:00
Uh, then, from there in, you need to completely stack the odds in your favor.
Paul:
00:02:04
And what I've found is that most MSP owners who do their own sales
Paul:
00:02:09
meetings, which is the majority, and certainly for the first 5 10 years of
Paul:
00:02:13
the business, most of them will close at least 50 percent if not above.
Paul:
00:02:18
And I think that two thirds is something that you should be aiming for.
Paul:
00:02:21
So please don't benchmark yourself against that.
Paul:
00:02:23
Just know that if you're only closing One in three, or, you know,
Paul:
00:02:27
only 50%, then you can improve your process, you can do better.
Paul:
00:02:31
And it's not about going on sales training, it's not about doing
Paul:
00:02:35
more formal stuff like that.
Paul:
00:02:36
It's about stacking the odds in your favor with a series of things that, if
Paul:
00:02:41
we have time, Steve, we can talk about.
Steve:
00:02:44
And one thing that I know I would get stuck in in the past would
Steve:
00:02:50
be, Oh, I gotta, I gotta build this whole automation funnel thing, right?
Steve:
00:02:57
You know, I've, I've got to build this big, ridiculous machine
Steve:
00:03:01
before I even start prospecting.
Steve:
00:03:04
And..., I've learned that, for the most part, that's probably
Steve:
00:03:08
the wrong way to do things.
Steve:
00:03:10
Um, you need to, yes, have a system, but you don't need to go out and spend, you
Steve:
00:03:17
know, hundreds or thousands a month on Keap or HubSpot or something else and,
Steve:
00:03:23
and build all this automation out when you don't know that your system works yet.
Steve:
00:03:29
So, build a system that you can do manually.
Steve:
00:03:34
And start benchmarking yourself against that system that's manual.
Steve:
00:03:39
And then once you start bringing in more revenue and can justify it, then start
Steve:
00:03:46
looking at a platform that you can, you can start automating some of this
Steve:
00:03:51
system in, and maybe that's your PSA.
Steve:
00:03:54
I'm not going to sit here and tell you, you have to use GlassHive or you, have
Steve:
00:03:57
to use HubSpot the tools don't matter.
Steve:
00:04:01
They, they really don't.
Steve:
00:04:02
, the same could be said with film.
Steve:
00:04:05
Okay.
Steve:
00:04:06
And, and I know this is going to be a wild analogy, but,
Steve:
00:04:10
but hang with me for a second.
Steve:
00:04:12
Jurassic Park was.
Steve:
00:04:14
A phenomenal movie.
Steve:
00:04:16
It still is a phenomenal movie.
Steve:
00:04:18
I haven't watched it in years, but I can safely say that that
Steve:
00:04:23
movie was ahead of its time when it comes to the CGI dinosaurs and
Steve:
00:04:29
all the special effects, right?
Steve:
00:04:31
They did not have...
Steve:
00:04:33
All of the same systems that we have available to us today.
Steve:
00:04:38
You, as an individual, can go out and buy a MacStudio for 2, 000.
Steve:
00:04:43
That's the one I'm using.
Steve:
00:04:44
And you can download the free DaVinci Resolve software.
Steve:
00:04:48
And you can potentially make something as good, if not better, than Jurassic Park.
Steve:
00:04:55
The tools don't matter.
Steve:
00:04:56
It's all about the systems and processes that you have in place.
Steve:
00:05:00
They didn't have all this cool technology we do now, yet they were able to make
Steve:
00:05:04
something that, we can all hopefully agree was a marvel for its time.
Paul:
00:05:12
Yeah, you're absolutely right.
Paul:
00:05:13
I mean, those, those tools, you mentioned HubSpot, that's epic.
Paul:
00:05:16
You mentioned Keap, K E A P, that's epic.
Paul:
00:05:18
Um, there, there are amazing tools out there.
Paul:
00:05:21
Um, but they are, you're right, they're, they're what you use when
Paul:
00:05:23
you're maturing your marketing.
Paul:
00:05:26
If I ran an MSP, and I, so I've never owned an MSP, I'm not a tech.
Paul:
00:05:31
Um, but if I owned an MSP, if I bought one tomorrow, and they were desperate for,
Paul:
00:05:35
for sales, uh, here's what I would do.
Paul:
00:05:37
I would sit someone down, Uh, um, anybody, doesn't matter who does this,
Paul:
00:05:41
and I would, I would buy them Sales Navigator, uh, and, and you don't even
Paul:
00:05:44
need Sales Navigator, Sales Navigator is like 300 bucks a month, but you don't
Paul:
00:05:47
even need that, but that, that would just accelerate the thing I want them to do.
Paul:
00:05:50
I would sit them down, and I would get them to find...
Paul:
00:05:53
Anybody in the local area who is a business owner or manager
Paul:
00:05:56
that we could do business with.
Paul:
00:05:58
No overthinking it other than that, just connect to people.
Paul:
00:06:00
And the easy way to do that actually is to find someone else who's
Paul:
00:06:03
already connected to those people.
Paul:
00:06:04
So it might be that you have an Uber networker in your town or your city who
Paul:
00:06:08
knows everyone and they're connected to 3, 000 business owners on LinkedIn.
Paul:
00:06:13
Thank you very much, we'll have that.
Paul:
00:06:14
You then go and look at their connections and you connect to their connections.
Paul:
00:06:17
So I would have someone...
Paul:
00:06:18
Building up all those connections at a pace.
Paul:
00:06:20
Then I would have them finding the email addresses of all of
Paul:
00:06:23
those connections, putting those email addresses into a basic CRM.
Paul:
00:06:27
MailChimp, right?
Paul:
00:06:28
MailChimp is an incredibly powerful CRM that, and I forget the exact number,
Paul:
00:06:33
but it's something like you have 2000 contacts for free before you start paying.
Paul:
00:06:37
Right?
Paul:
00:06:38
It's an insane tool.
Paul:
00:06:39
MailerLite, L I T E, is another insane tool.
Paul:
00:06:42
Not as good as MailChimp, and currently they're having a fight against spammers.
Paul:
00:06:46
So their functionality isn't quite as good, but MailChimp is an amazing way.
Paul:
00:06:51
That tool's costing you nothing.
Paul:
00:06:52
LinkedIn Connections is costing you nothing but time.
Paul:
00:06:55
Finding email addresses, you can just do it through Google.
Paul:
00:06:57
That's costing you nothing but time.
Paul:
00:06:59
And then I would have that person or someone pick up the
Paul:
00:07:01
phone and call these people.
Paul:
00:07:03
So we're connecting to people on LinkedIn.
Paul:
00:07:04
We're putting content in front of them in LinkedIn.
Paul:
00:07:06
We're sending them emails.
Paul:
00:07:08
via our free MailChimp, and then we're just gonna pick up the phone.
Paul:
00:07:11
It's not a sales call, it's a high, just want to get to know you call.
Paul:
00:07:15
It's a relationship building call.
Paul:
00:07:16
And the purpose of that call...
Paul:
00:07:18
is to color code that person.
Paul:
00:07:20
Are they red?
Paul:
00:07:21
Are they really happy with their incumbent MSP?
Paul:
00:07:23
Are they too small?
Paul:
00:07:25
Are they just not for us?
Paul:
00:07:26
They're red, we don't worry about them.
Paul:
00:07:28
Uh, are they the right kind of size client?
Paul:
00:07:30
But they, again, they love their MSP.
Paul:
00:07:32
Uh, they're an AMBER, they're an AMBER prospect, or an AMBER lead,
Paul:
00:07:35
let's call them back next year.
Paul:
00:07:36
Or are they the right kind of people?
Paul:
00:07:38
They're really unhappy about a service problem they had last week.
Paul:
00:07:42
Uh, they've been meaning to look and see who's out in the market.
Paul:
00:07:44
That's green, green, green, green, green!
Paul:
00:07:46
And, and suddenly now we put all of our attention on that small number of greens.
Paul:
00:07:50
And, and, you know, if I owned an MSP and we were desperate for
Paul:
00:07:53
sales, that's what I would do.
Paul:
00:07:54
In fact, I'd get that one person doing all of those three things.
Paul:
00:07:57
That's a, that's a big ask.
Paul:
00:07:58
That's a lot of different skill sets for one person, but they're out there.
Paul:
00:08:01
It's, it, you know, you'd find that person, you wouldn't have
Paul:
00:08:04
to pay them a lot of money, and I would get them doing that.
Paul:
00:08:06
It's five days a week, you know, 51 weeks a year.
Paul:
00:08:10
They can have Christmas or maybe just Thanksgiving off and, uh, and
Paul:
00:08:13
just hitting those, hitting LinkedIn, hitting email, hitting the phones.
Paul:
00:08:16
And we would book more sales appointments because their job
Paul:
00:08:19
is appointment setting, right?
Paul:
00:08:20
They're not doing the sales appointment.
Paul:
00:08:21
That's my job as the owner, as your job as the owner, but they're
Paul:
00:08:24
doing that appointment setting.
Paul:
00:08:26
So yeah, you can, you can ramp these things up and you're
Paul:
00:08:28
absolutely right, Steve.
Paul:
00:08:29
You, you don't need the fancy tools to do it.
Paul:
00:08:32
But you do need to do some activity.
Paul:
00:08:33
Now that, what I've just talked about there isn't sustainable, right?
Paul:
00:08:36
You couldn't keep, that's not a great system that you'd keep
Paul:
00:08:38
going in that format for years.
Paul:
00:08:40
The system itself is good, but you would bring in automation, you'd bring
Paul:
00:08:43
in a CRM, you'd bring in some of those tools, but only, as you say, Steve, once
Paul:
00:08:47
you've actually proven that that works.
Steve:
00:08:49
That's fantastic advice, Paul.
Paul:
00:08:51
Well, there is just one thing, which is something I talked about
Paul:
00:08:53
earlier, um, which was ways to improve your, your sales conversion rates.
Paul:
00:08:57
So if you can give me 90 seconds, let me very briefly, uh, talk on that.
Paul:
00:09:01
Um, what happens in the sales meeting?
Paul:
00:09:04
Yes, you can get sales training.
Paul:
00:09:05
There are some great sales trainers out there in the MSP space, uh, and it's,
Paul:
00:09:08
it's, it's certainly worth doing that if you're not a naturally comfortable,
Paul:
00:09:13
hang on, let me back up on that.
Paul:
00:09:14
No one is naturally comfortable in sales when they're the business owner, but as
Paul:
00:09:17
the business owner, you talk with passion.
Paul:
00:09:19
Uh, you, you, you sit there with someone and they tell you about their technology
Paul:
00:09:22
problems and you think, I can help.
Paul:
00:09:24
I can help because you know, you want to, you can fix their problems and you
Paul:
00:09:27
know, you can make their life better.
Paul:
00:09:29
And that's why you sell, right?
Paul:
00:09:30
So sometimes putting a sales process on top of that can smother that.
Paul:
00:09:35
So then you have to be very aware of.
Paul:
00:09:36
So if you're okay in sales meetings and you're not too worried about
Paul:
00:09:39
that, just go with that for now.
Paul:
00:09:41
But what you can do is improve the stuff around the sales meetings.
Paul:
00:09:44
For example, there's something called pre suasion, where you persuade someone
Paul:
00:09:51
before you ask them to do something.
Paul:
00:09:52
So you can pre this is, this comes from a book by a very famous
Paul:
00:09:57
psychology professor called Dr.
Paul:
00:09:59
Robert Cialdini.
Paul:
00:10:00
He deals a lot with the psychology of marketing.
Paul:
00:10:02
He wrote a book called Influence back in 1984, which is epic.
Paul:
00:10:06
He then wrote a follow up called Pre suasion about 10 years ago.
Paul:
00:10:10
Too long, too waffly, not a great read.
Paul:
00:10:12
So don't bother reading persuasion, just here's the 10 second version of it.
Paul:
00:10:16
Persuasion is you, you influence what someone's going to do before they do it.
Paul:
00:10:21
For example, before you meet someone for a sales meeting, uh,
Paul:
00:10:24
you send them some social proof.
Paul:
00:10:26
So social proof is things like case studies and testimonials, reviews.
Paul:
00:10:30
So what if you sent them a case study booklet?
Paul:
00:10:32
It's literally a written booklet, uh, featuring, uh, uh, a case study of one
Paul:
00:10:37
of your clients or a number of your clients, and you send it to them, it's
Paul:
00:10:40
like a, an eight page book for them to read, and you send it to them with a
Paul:
00:10:43
note saying, Hey, looking forward to meeting you, uh, a week on Tuesday.
Paul:
00:10:47
Please can you read this before we meet so you can see how other business owners
Paul:
00:10:50
like you have experienced what we do.
Paul:
00:10:53
And, and some will read it, some won't, but those that do,
Paul:
00:10:56
they're much more likely to buy.
Paul:
00:10:58
Because the reason we call it social proof is because we're
Paul:
00:11:00
scared of making a mistake.
Paul:
00:11:02
And, uh, if we see other people like us...
Paul:
00:11:06
Are doing something, then we are much more likely to feel more comfortable about it.
Paul:
00:11:10
People who buy from you, they don't know what they don't know about technology.
Paul:
00:11:13
They're not making head decisions, they're making heart decisions.
Paul:
00:11:16
They're buying you based on whether they like you or not.
Paul:
00:11:19
So if we can influence their heart...
Paul:
00:11:22
And they're ahead of it with social proof, then they're more likely to pick you.
Paul:
00:11:25
So that's something you can do before.
Paul:
00:11:26
There are other things, but that's the one that gives the biggest impact.
Paul:
00:11:29
And then afterwards, don't be the guy that does the meeting, sends the
Paul:
00:11:35
proposal in, and then phones them once a week for the next 16 weeks.
Paul:
00:11:40
Be that annoying guy.
Paul:
00:11:41
Don't do that.
Paul:
00:11:42
Do proposals in person.
Paul:
00:11:45
Right?
Paul:
00:11:45
So you do the sales meeting.
Paul:
00:11:47
You say, right, we've got everything here.
Paul:
00:11:48
I'm going to put a proposal together.
Paul:
00:11:49
I could just send it through to you, but I, what I'd like to do is I
Paul:
00:11:52
just need another 20 minutes of your time to talk it through in person.
Paul:
00:11:55
And you'll be the only person of the, of the five MSPs they're talking to.
Paul:
00:11:59
You'll be the only person who does this.
Paul:
00:12:00
So you come back and you present it to them in person and you give
Paul:
00:12:02
them nice printed copies and PDF because they lose the printed copies
Paul:
00:12:06
and they've got it on their email.
Paul:
00:12:08
And the point of presenting it in person.
Paul:
00:12:11
is, you know, when you just give them a proposal, what do they do?
Paul:
00:12:15
They flick to the back to look at the price, and they've missed all the context.
Paul:
00:12:18
No!
Paul:
00:12:19
We want to stop this.
Paul:
00:12:20
So, by doing the proposal in person, they can't miss the context
Paul:
00:12:24
because you present it to them, and the price comes at the end.
Paul:
00:12:27
That's, just do the social proof and do the proposal in person.
Paul:
00:12:30
Those two things alone will dramatically improve your conversion rate.
Paul:
00:12:34
There is one more, Steve, if I can.
Paul:
00:12:35
There's actually a ton more, but there's this one more I want to put in.
Paul:
00:12:38
Once you've presented the proposal in person...
Paul:
00:12:41
Make sure you schedule a phone or video call for you to answer
Paul:
00:12:46
their final questions and get their decision, which again removes the
Paul:
00:12:49
follow up failure that we have.
Paul:
00:12:51
You don't want to do a sales meeting, propose in person, and
Paul:
00:12:53
then be like phoning them two weeks later, Are you ready yet?
Paul:
00:12:56
Have you made a decision?
Paul:
00:12:57
Schedule it.
Paul:
00:12:58
Put it in their diary, put it in their calendar.
Paul:
00:13:00
Essentially with this whole sales process, I'm talking about you taking
Paul:
00:13:03
control and you should take control.
Paul:
00:13:05
People are lucky to work with you, right?
Paul:
00:13:08
Cause you're good at what you do.
Paul:
00:13:09
You're great at what you do.
Paul:
00:13:10
So you should be in charge of auditing, not auditing, auditioning them to whether
Paul:
00:13:16
or not they can come and work with you.
Paul:
00:13:17
And that's almost the mindset you should have.
Paul:
00:13:19
Even if you're desperate for sales, they've got to jump through
Paul:
00:13:22
some hoops and audition to be good enough to join your MSP.
Paul:
00:13:26
And you being in charge of the sales process is one of
Paul:
00:13:29
the fastest ways to do that.
Paul:
00:13:31
Massively,
Steve:
00:13:33
I think it's also okay for you to be cocky enough in a way to make
Steve:
00:13:39
that clear to them that hey, I'm making sure that you're a good fit to work
Steve:
00:13:45
with me just as much as you want to make sure I'm a good fit to work with you.
Paul:
00:13:49
massively, yes.
Paul:
00:13:50
And in fact, you know, not being afraid to say, No, I'm sorry we can't meet,
Paul:
00:13:54
we're not a good fit, is perfect.
Paul:
00:13:55
It's weird, isn't it?
Paul:
00:13:56
When you reject someone, and you say, I'm sorry, I don't think we'd be a good
Paul:
00:13:59
fit, that makes you more desirable.
Paul:
00:14:01
And it's kind of like dating.
Paul:
00:14:02
Now, I'm single at the moment as we record this, Steve.
Paul:
00:14:06
And I don't know if I was to get on the apps.
Paul:
00:14:08
Oh my God, please don't make me go on Tinder again.
Paul:
00:14:10
But if I had to, you know, being too keen is not a good thing, right?
Paul:
00:14:15
You have to kind of, it's getting that two way thing.
Paul:
00:14:18
This is what my dating guru tells me anyway.
Paul:
00:14:20
But it's exactly the same with marketing.
Paul:
00:14:21
I'm so much better at marketing than I am at dating.
Steve:
00:14:26
You just need to look at dating like marketing.
Paul:
00:14:29
Yeah, a funnel.
Paul:
00:14:30
Lots of leads, lots of prospects, and lots of sales appointments as well.
Paul:
00:14:34
Yeah, I like that.
Steve:
00:14:36
Every, every time you meet with, with another person and, and
Steve:
00:14:39
you decide, let's, let's get together, let's have a cocktail or dinner.
Steve:
00:14:44
That's a, that's a sales meeting that you need to
Paul:
00:14:46
like it.
Paul:
00:14:47
I like it.
Paul:
00:14:47
And that sounds like a business expense as well.
Paul:
00:14:50
Can I put all my dates on my business credit card?
Steve:
00:14:52
You, you actually should, because if anything, that's
Steve:
00:14:54
sales and marketing training.
Paul:
00:14:56
Definitely.
Paul:
00:14:57
Definitely.
Paul:
00:14:58
I'm sure my CPA will have something to say about that.
Steve:
00:15:00
Well, I can't wait to hear what your CPA says in a few months, uh, as
Steve:
00:15:04
you start to expense all of your dates.
Steve:
00:15:07
Keep me posted.
Steve:
00:15:08
That way we know what we can get away with over here across the pond.
Steve:
00:15:12
Paul, thank you so much for doing this with me, man.
Steve:
00:15:14
I really appreciate it.
Paul:
00:15:15
It's a pleasure.
Paul:
00:15:15
Thanks for having me on again
00:00:00
the lead to appointment conversion rate, which we talked about in a, in a
Paul:
00:00:03
previous, um, uh, previous podcast, uh, I said, I wouldn't be, uh, I wouldn't commit
Paul:
00:00:07
to a figure, but I said it would be very, very, very, very, very low, like less than
Paul:
00:00:11
1 percent low because MSPs have a very slow sales cycle, uh, prospects take so
Paul:
00:00:17
long or buyers take so long Choosing an MSP and they will stick with an incumbent
Paul:
00:00:22
for years past the point that they're dissatisfied, which slows everything down.
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00:00:26
So to take someone from being a lead, a lead is when you're like
Paul:
00:00:29
connected to them on LinkedIn or they're in your email database.
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00:00:32
To take them from being a lead to a sales meeting, tiny, tiny conversion
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00:00:36
rate, probably under what if you're doing over 1 percent you're doing well.
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00:00:40
Let's just say that.
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00:00:40
Now, what about a sales conversion rate?
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00:00:43
Completely the opposite.
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00:00:45
You should be, and again I'm not going to be committed to a figure because then
Paul:
00:00:48
you'll try and benchmark yourself against a figure that is based on the 700 odd
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00:00:53
MSPs that I talked to about this and thousands of other MSPs I've spoken to,
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00:00:56
there is no standard figure that I can give you that I'm happy committing to
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00:01:01
But I will give you a broad range, which is if you are not closing at least two
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00:01:07
out of three of the sales conversations that you're having, then you need to
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00:01:12
improve your sales process in some way.
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00:01:14
And by improving your sales process in some way, I don't just
Paul:
00:01:16
mean the actual sales meeting.
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00:01:18
There's a whole Set of things you can do around the sales meeting to improve it.
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00:01:22
And Steve asked me that as a question in a second.
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00:01:24
But why should your sales conversion rate be so high?
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00:01:27
Well, simply because as an MSP, you have very, very few sales meetings.
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00:01:31
You might have like one sales meeting a month, maybe even one every other month.
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00:01:35
And so when you, when you have so few sales meetings, you have
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00:01:38
to stack the odds in your favor.
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00:01:41
And that means you've got to go, you've got to pre qualify that they're
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00:01:43
a great prospect, as in they've got the right number of users, they've
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00:01:47
got the right kind of budget, they've got enough revenue, uh, all of these
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00:01:51
things need to be right for you.
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00:01:52
They're in a, they're in a sector or vertical or a, or a location, geographical
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00:01:56
location that you're happy working with.
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00:01:58
So if you go into it knowing that you can work with them.
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00:02:00
Uh, then, from there in, you need to completely stack the odds in your favor.
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00:02:04
And what I've found is that most MSP owners who do their own sales
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00:02:09
meetings, which is the majority, and certainly for the first 5 10 years of
Paul:
00:02:13
the business, most of them will close at least 50 percent if not above.
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00:02:18
And I think that two thirds is something that you should be aiming for.
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00:02:21
So please don't benchmark yourself against that.
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00:02:23
Just know that if you're only closing One in three, or, you know,
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only 50%, then you can improve your process, you can do better.
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00:02:31
And it's not about going on sales training, it's not about doing
Paul:
00:02:35
more formal stuff like that.
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00:02:36
It's about stacking the odds in your favor with a series of things that, if
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we have time, Steve, we can talk about.
Steve:
00:02:44
And one thing that I know I would get stuck in in the past would
Steve:
00:02:50
be, Oh, I gotta, I gotta build this whole automation funnel thing, right?
Steve:
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You know, I've, I've got to build this big, ridiculous machine
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00:03:01
before I even start prospecting.
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00:03:04
And..., I've learned that, for the most part, that's probably
Steve:
00:03:08
the wrong way to do things.
Steve:
00:03:10
Um, you need to, yes, have a system, but you don't need to go out and spend, you
Steve:
00:03:17
know, hundreds or thousands a month on Keap or HubSpot or something else and,
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00:03:23
and build all this automation out when you don't know that your system works yet.
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00:03:29
So, build a system that you can do manually.
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And start benchmarking yourself against that system that's manual.
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00:03:39
And then once you start bringing in more revenue and can justify it, then start
Steve:
00:03:46
looking at a platform that you can, you can start automating some of this
Steve:
00:03:51
system in, and maybe that's your PSA.
Steve:
00:03:54
I'm not going to sit here and tell you, you have to use GlassHive or you, have
Steve:
00:03:57
to use HubSpot the tools don't matter.
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00:04:01
They, they really don't.
Steve:
00:04:02
, the same could be said with film.
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00:04:05
Okay.
Steve:
00:04:06
And, and I know this is going to be a wild analogy, but,
Steve:
00:04:10
but hang with me for a second.
Steve:
00:04:12
Jurassic Park was.
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00:04:14
A phenomenal movie.
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00:04:16
It still is a phenomenal movie.
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00:04:18
I haven't watched it in years, but I can safely say that that
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00:04:23
movie was ahead of its time when it comes to the CGI dinosaurs and
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00:04:29
all the special effects, right?
Steve:
00:04:31
They did not have...
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00:04:33
All of the same systems that we have available to us today.
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00:04:38
You, as an individual, can go out and buy a MacStudio for 2, 000.
Steve:
00:04:43
That's the one I'm using.
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00:04:44
And you can download the free DaVinci Resolve software.
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00:04:48
And you can potentially make something as good, if not better, than Jurassic Park.
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00:04:55
The tools don't matter.
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00:04:56
It's all about the systems and processes that you have in place.
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They didn't have all this cool technology we do now, yet they were able to make
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00:05:04
something that, we can all hopefully agree was a marvel for its time.
Paul:
00:05:12
Yeah, you're absolutely right.
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00:05:13
I mean, those, those tools, you mentioned HubSpot, that's epic.
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You mentioned Keap, K E A P, that's epic.
Paul:
00:05:18
Um, there, there are amazing tools out there.
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00:05:21
Um, but they are, you're right, they're, they're what you use when
Paul:
00:05:23
you're maturing your marketing.
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00:05:26
If I ran an MSP, and I, so I've never owned an MSP, I'm not a tech.
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00:05:31
Um, but if I owned an MSP, if I bought one tomorrow, and they were desperate for,
Paul:
00:05:35
for sales, uh, here's what I would do.
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00:05:37
I would sit someone down, Uh, um, anybody, doesn't matter who does this,
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00:05:41
and I would, I would buy them Sales Navigator, uh, and, and you don't even
Paul:
00:05:44
need Sales Navigator, Sales Navigator is like 300 bucks a month, but you don't
Paul:
00:05:47
even need that, but that, that would just accelerate the thing I want them to do.
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00:05:50
I would sit them down, and I would get them to find...
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00:05:53
Anybody in the local area who is a business owner or manager
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00:05:56
that we could do business with.
Paul:
00:05:58
No overthinking it other than that, just connect to people.
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00:06:00
And the easy way to do that actually is to find someone else who's
Paul:
00:06:03
already connected to those people.
Paul:
00:06:04
So it might be that you have an Uber networker in your town or your city who
Paul:
00:06:08
knows everyone and they're connected to 3, 000 business owners on LinkedIn.
Paul:
00:06:13
Thank you very much, we'll have that.
Paul:
00:06:14
You then go and look at their connections and you connect to their connections.
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00:06:17
So I would have someone...
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00:06:18
Building up all those connections at a pace.
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00:06:20
Then I would have them finding the email addresses of all of
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00:06:23
those connections, putting those email addresses into a basic CRM.
Paul:
00:06:27
MailChimp, right?
Paul:
00:06:28
MailChimp is an incredibly powerful CRM that, and I forget the exact number,
Paul:
00:06:33
but it's something like you have 2000 contacts for free before you start paying.
Paul:
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Right?
Paul:
00:06:38
It's an insane tool.
Paul:
00:06:39
MailerLite, L I T E, is another insane tool.
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00:06:42
Not as good as MailChimp, and currently they're having a fight against spammers.
Paul:
00:06:46
So their functionality isn't quite as good, but MailChimp is an amazing way.
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00:06:51
That tool's costing you nothing.
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00:06:52
LinkedIn Connections is costing you nothing but time.
Paul:
00:06:55
Finding email addresses, you can just do it through Google.
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00:06:57
That's costing you nothing but time.
Paul:
00:06:59
And then I would have that person or someone pick up the
Paul:
00:07:01
phone and call these people.
Paul:
00:07:03
So we're connecting to people on LinkedIn.
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00:07:04
We're putting content in front of them in LinkedIn.
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00:07:06
We're sending them emails.
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00:07:08
via our free MailChimp, and then we're just gonna pick up the phone.
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00:07:11
It's not a sales call, it's a high, just want to get to know you call.
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00:07:15
It's a relationship building call.
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00:07:16
And the purpose of that call...
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00:07:18
is to color code that person.
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Are they red?
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00:07:21
Are they really happy with their incumbent MSP?
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Are they too small?
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00:07:25
Are they just not for us?
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They're red, we don't worry about them.
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Uh, are they the right kind of size client?
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00:07:30
But they, again, they love their MSP.
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00:07:32
Uh, they're an AMBER, they're an AMBER prospect, or an AMBER lead,
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00:07:35
let's call them back next year.
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00:07:36
Or are they the right kind of people?
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They're really unhappy about a service problem they had last week.
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Uh, they've been meaning to look and see who's out in the market.
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That's green, green, green, green, green!
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00:07:46
And, and suddenly now we put all of our attention on that small number of greens.
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00:07:50
And, and, you know, if I owned an MSP and we were desperate for
Paul:
00:07:53
sales, that's what I would do.
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00:07:54
In fact, I'd get that one person doing all of those three things.
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That's a, that's a big ask.
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00:07:58
That's a lot of different skill sets for one person, but they're out there.
Paul:
00:08:01
It's, it, you know, you'd find that person, you wouldn't have
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00:08:04
to pay them a lot of money, and I would get them doing that.
Paul:
00:08:06
It's five days a week, you know, 51 weeks a year.
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00:08:10
They can have Christmas or maybe just Thanksgiving off and, uh, and
Paul:
00:08:13
just hitting those, hitting LinkedIn, hitting email, hitting the phones.
Paul:
00:08:16
And we would book more sales appointments because their job
Paul:
00:08:19
is appointment setting, right?
Paul:
00:08:20
They're not doing the sales appointment.
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That's my job as the owner, as your job as the owner, but they're
Paul:
00:08:24
doing that appointment setting.
Paul:
00:08:26
So yeah, you can, you can ramp these things up and you're
Paul:
00:08:28
absolutely right, Steve.
Paul:
00:08:29
You, you don't need the fancy tools to do it.
Paul:
00:08:32
But you do need to do some activity.
Paul:
00:08:33
Now that, what I've just talked about there isn't sustainable, right?
Paul:
00:08:36
You couldn't keep, that's not a great system that you'd keep
Paul:
00:08:38
going in that format for years.
Paul:
00:08:40
The system itself is good, but you would bring in automation, you'd bring
Paul:
00:08:43
in a CRM, you'd bring in some of those tools, but only, as you say, Steve, once
Paul:
00:08:47
you've actually proven that that works.
Steve:
00:08:49
That's fantastic advice, Paul.
Paul:
00:08:51
Well, there is just one thing, which is something I talked about
Paul:
00:08:53
earlier, um, which was ways to improve your, your sales conversion rates.
Paul:
00:08:57
So if you can give me 90 seconds, let me very briefly, uh, talk on that.
Paul:
00:09:01
Um, what happens in the sales meeting?
Paul:
00:09:04
Yes, you can get sales training.
Paul:
00:09:05
There are some great sales trainers out there in the MSP space, uh, and it's,
Paul:
00:09:08
it's, it's certainly worth doing that if you're not a naturally comfortable,
Paul:
00:09:13
hang on, let me back up on that.
Paul:
00:09:14
No one is naturally comfortable in sales when they're the business owner, but as
Paul:
00:09:17
the business owner, you talk with passion.
Paul:
00:09:19
Uh, you, you, you sit there with someone and they tell you about their technology
Paul:
00:09:22
problems and you think, I can help.
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00:09:24
I can help because you know, you want to, you can fix their problems and you
Paul:
00:09:27
know, you can make their life better.
Paul:
00:09:29
And that's why you sell, right?
Paul:
00:09:30
So sometimes putting a sales process on top of that can smother that.
Paul:
00:09:35
So then you have to be very aware of.
Paul:
00:09:36
So if you're okay in sales meetings and you're not too worried about
Paul:
00:09:39
that, just go with that for now.
Paul:
00:09:41
But what you can do is improve the stuff around the sales meetings.
Paul:
00:09:44
For example, there's something called pre suasion, where you persuade someone
Paul:
00:09:51
before you ask them to do something.
Paul:
00:09:52
So you can pre this is, this comes from a book by a very famous
Paul:
00:09:57
psychology professor called Dr.
Paul:
00:09:59
Robert Cialdini.
Paul:
00:10:00
He deals a lot with the psychology of marketing.
Paul:
00:10:02
He wrote a book called Influence back in 1984, which is epic.
Paul:
00:10:06
He then wrote a follow up called Pre suasion about 10 years ago.
Paul:
00:10:10
Too long, too waffly, not a great read.
Paul:
00:10:12
So don't bother reading persuasion, just here's the 10 second version of it.
Paul:
00:10:16
Persuasion is you, you influence what someone's going to do before they do it.
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00:10:21
For example, before you meet someone for a sales meeting, uh,
Paul:
00:10:24
you send them some social proof.
Paul:
00:10:26
So social proof is things like case studies and testimonials, reviews.
Paul:
00:10:30
So what if you sent them a case study booklet?
Paul:
00:10:32
It's literally a written booklet, uh, featuring, uh, uh, a case study of one
Paul:
00:10:37
of your clients or a number of your clients, and you send it to them, it's
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00:10:40
like a, an eight page book for them to read, and you send it to them with a
Paul:
00:10:43
note saying, Hey, looking forward to meeting you, uh, a week on Tuesday.
Paul:
00:10:47
Please can you read this before we meet so you can see how other business owners
Paul:
00:10:50
like you have experienced what we do.
Paul:
00:10:53
And, and some will read it, some won't, but those that do,
Paul:
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they're much more likely to buy.
Paul:
00:10:58
Because the reason we call it social proof is because we're
Paul:
00:11:00
scared of making a mistake.
Paul:
00:11:02
And, uh, if we see other people like us...
Paul:
00:11:06
Are doing something, then we are much more likely to feel more comfortable about it.
Paul:
00:11:10
People who buy from you, they don't know what they don't know about technology.
Paul:
00:11:13
They're not making head decisions, they're making heart decisions.
Paul:
00:11:16
They're buying you based on whether they like you or not.
Paul:
00:11:19
So if we can influence their heart...
Paul:
00:11:22
And they're ahead of it with social proof, then they're more likely to pick you.
Paul:
00:11:25
So that's something you can do before.
Paul:
00:11:26
There are other things, but that's the one that gives the biggest impact.
Paul:
00:11:29
And then afterwards, don't be the guy that does the meeting, sends the
Paul:
00:11:35
proposal in, and then phones them once a week for the next 16 weeks.
Paul:
00:11:40
Be that annoying guy.
Paul:
00:11:41
Don't do that.
Paul:
00:11:42
Do proposals in person.
Paul:
00:11:45
Right?
Paul:
00:11:45
So you do the sales meeting.
Paul:
00:11:47
You say, right, we've got everything here.
Paul:
00:11:48
I'm going to put a proposal together.
Paul:
00:11:49
I could just send it through to you, but I, what I'd like to do is I
Paul:
00:11:52
just need another 20 minutes of your time to talk it through in person.
Paul:
00:11:55
And you'll be the only person of the, of the five MSPs they're talking to.
Paul:
00:11:59
You'll be the only person who does this.
Paul:
00:12:00
So you come back and you present it to them in person and you give
Paul:
00:12:02
them nice printed copies and PDF because they lose the printed copies
Paul:
00:12:06
and they've got it on their email.
Paul:
00:12:08
And the point of presenting it in person.
Paul:
00:12:11
is, you know, when you just give them a proposal, what do they do?
Paul:
00:12:15
They flick to the back to look at the price, and they've missed all the context.
Paul:
00:12:18
No!
Paul:
00:12:19
We want to stop this.
Paul:
00:12:20
So, by doing the proposal in person, they can't miss the context
Paul:
00:12:24
because you present it to them, and the price comes at the end.
Paul:
00:12:27
That's, just do the social proof and do the proposal in person.
Paul:
00:12:30
Those two things alone will dramatically improve your conversion rate.
Paul:
00:12:34
There is one more, Steve, if I can.
Paul:
00:12:35
There's actually a ton more, but there's this one more I want to put in.
Paul:
00:12:38
Once you've presented the proposal in person...
Paul:
00:12:41
Make sure you schedule a phone or video call for you to answer
Paul:
00:12:46
their final questions and get their decision, which again removes the
Paul:
00:12:49
follow up failure that we have.
Paul:
00:12:51
You don't want to do a sales meeting, propose in person, and
Paul:
00:12:53
then be like phoning them two weeks later, Are you ready yet?
Paul:
00:12:56
Have you made a decision?
Paul:
00:12:57
Schedule it.
Paul:
00:12:58
Put it in their diary, put it in their calendar.
Paul:
00:13:00
Essentially with this whole sales process, I'm talking about you taking
Paul:
00:13:03
control and you should take control.
Paul:
00:13:05
People are lucky to work with you, right?
Paul:
00:13:08
Cause you're good at what you do.
Paul:
00:13:09
You're great at what you do.
Paul:
00:13:10
So you should be in charge of auditing, not auditing, auditioning them to whether
Paul:
00:13:16
or not they can come and work with you.
Paul:
00:13:17
And that's almost the mindset you should have.
Paul:
00:13:19
Even if you're desperate for sales, they've got to jump through
Paul:
00:13:22
some hoops and audition to be good enough to join your MSP.
Paul:
00:13:26
And you being in charge of the sales process is one of
Paul:
00:13:29
the fastest ways to do that.
Paul:
00:13:31
Massively,
Steve:
00:13:33
I think it's also okay for you to be cocky enough in a way to make
Steve:
00:13:39
that clear to them that hey, I'm making sure that you're a good fit to work
Steve:
00:13:45
with me just as much as you want to make sure I'm a good fit to work with you.
Paul:
00:13:49
massively, yes.
Paul:
00:13:50
And in fact, you know, not being afraid to say, No, I'm sorry we can't meet,
Paul:
00:13:54
we're not a good fit, is perfect.
Paul:
00:13:55
It's weird, isn't it?
Paul:
00:13:56
When you reject someone, and you say, I'm sorry, I don't think we'd be a good
Paul:
00:13:59
fit, that makes you more desirable.
Paul:
00:14:01
And it's kind of like dating.
Paul:
00:14:02
Now, I'm single at the moment as we record this, Steve.
Paul:
00:14:06
And I don't know if I was to get on the apps.
Paul:
00:14:08
Oh my God, please don't make me go on Tinder again.
Paul:
00:14:10
But if I had to, you know, being too keen is not a good thing, right?
Paul:
00:14:15
You have to kind of, it's getting that two way thing.
Paul:
00:14:18
This is what my dating guru tells me anyway.
Paul:
00:14:20
But it's exactly the same with marketing.
Paul:
00:14:21
I'm so much better at marketing than I am at dating.
Steve:
00:14:26
You just need to look at dating like marketing.
Paul:
00:14:29
Yeah, a funnel.
Paul:
00:14:30
Lots of leads, lots of prospects, and lots of sales appointments as well.
Paul:
00:14:34
Yeah, I like that.
Steve:
00:14:36
Every, every time you meet with, with another person and, and
Steve:
00:14:39
you decide, let's, let's get together, let's have a cocktail or dinner.
Steve:
00:14:44
That's a, that's a sales meeting that you need to
Paul:
00:14:46
like it.
Paul:
00:14:47
I like it.
Paul:
00:14:47
And that sounds like a business expense as well.
Paul:
00:14:50
Can I put all my dates on my business credit card?
Steve:
00:14:52
You, you actually should, because if anything, that's
Steve:
00:14:54
sales and marketing training.
Paul:
00:14:56
Definitely.
Paul:
00:14:57
Definitely.
Paul:
00:14:58
I'm sure my CPA will have something to say about that.
Steve:
00:15:00
Well, I can't wait to hear what your CPA says in a few months, uh, as
Steve:
00:15:04
you start to expense all of your dates.
Steve:
00:15:07
Keep me posted.
Steve:
00:15:08
That way we know what we can get away with over here across the pond.
Steve:
00:15:12
Paul, thank you so much for doing this with me, man.
Steve:
00:15:14
I really appreciate it.
Paul:
00:15:15
It's a pleasure.
Paul:
00:15:15
Thanks for having me on again
