Digital Captives: Helping Schools Strike a Balance Between Humans and Hardware with Dr. Frank Rodriguez & Gene Tavernetti

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Gene Tavernetti: Welcome to Better Teaching, Only Stuff That Works, a podcast for teachers, instructional coaches, administrators, and anyone else who supports teachers in the classroom.

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This show is a proud member of the BE Podcast Network shows that help you go beyond education.

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Find all our shows@bepodcastnetwork.com.

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I Am Gene Tavernetti the host for this podcast.

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And my goal for this episode, like all episodes, is that you laugh at least once and that you leave with an actionable idea for better teaching.

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A quick reminder, no cliches, no buzzwords.

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Only stuff that

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works.

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A little more than two years ago, Dr. Frank Rodriguez brought together a group of colleagues from across the country to discuss an issue he had been encountering in his afterschool programs.

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The impact of screens on children and the behaviors that seem to emerge as a result of excessive screen time.

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After meeting virtually for several months, the group began gathering in person to more deeply examine the issue, identifying specific challenges schools were facing, and exploring what might be done to mitigate some of those behaviors.

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Over time, the work evolved into developing a systematic approach that schools could use to address what we began to see as runaway technology, where technology was driving the conversation rather than serving as a tool to support learning.

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Not long after the idea emerged that a book should be written, one that would do more than simply point out the problem.

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We wanted to identify the issues clearly and more importantly, outline practical systems schools could implement to address them instead of just saying, isn't this terrible?

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We wanted to offer solutions that we knew could work.

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That effort led to the book Digital Captives, Helping Schools strike a balance between humans and hardware.

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Written by Frank Rodriguez, Donna Smith, and myself, gene Taber.

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Today we're gonna talk about that book and we're joined by a friend of the podcast and a respective voice in education, Bart Hoffman, who will guide the conversation
as we explore what schools can actually do to address this growing challenge and the benefits educators may gain from reading and applying the ideas in this book.

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I think you're gonna enjoy this conversation.

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So very excited to have, uh, an old friend Bart Hoffman here today to talk to us about our new book, digital Captives.

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So Bart, uh, so happy and and thankful that you're here to conduct this interview with us.

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Bart: Thank You

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You argue that schools have shifted from producing digital natives to becoming digital captives.

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What does that shift really mean?

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Frank: we started this work thinking about how students were changing over the course of, you know, the years following the pandemic.

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Gina and I are talking and thinking about.

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The start, our start of the start of our work together, back in the early part of the century, in 2004, I think 2005, um, how we, the optimism at that point was about how the technology
was gonna really transform education and make, and the students were gonna grow up in it in a very healthy way, um, and be, and be digital natives in the way that we were digital immigrants

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too.

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what happened

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in actuality from our perspective is that everything shifted so

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fast.

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Everything from, social media to, to now ai, but also just the internet and, and quick cut videos.

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that really shifted how students think and, and how we do as well, and how we interact with each other.

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And at some point it tipped the scales to where they went from being natives to really being.

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Captives to the screens, whether the screens be at home, in the phone, in the form of phones and tablets and TV or the, or at school in the form of tablets and Chromebooks.

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Gene Tavernetti: in addition to, in addition to that, the, the work that Frank does in his rise after school programs, he was able to see, these differences manifest.

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I mean, they were very clear differences, kids not being able to, uh, to pay attention as well.

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Executive function were not where, uh, typical five year olds, 10 year olds were.

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And so it was, uh, it wasn't just something that we had read in a book.

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I mean, Frank was experiencing it every day with his folks.

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Frank: Yeah.

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And

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if I can piggyback on that, actually I'm gonna say that even more than myself, my staff was experiencing it and we were experiencing it from like four year olds through 22 year olds.

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Because, you know, we, we employ a lot of 18, 19, 20, 22

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year

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olds,

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uh, in our afterschool programs, tutoring programs, summer programs, et cetera.

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And we were seeing that, that they were acting differently in terms of like communication, how they, how they wrote, but also even things
like eye contact or how we conducted interviews, you know, shifting to zoom how many would show up in their pajamas on the interviews.

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So there was definitely a shift there, but we also noticed it in the programs with like four and five year olds.

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Like Gene was saying, that we're having a difficult time.

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Assimilating to what the school structures were like, partly 'cause they missed preschool, but also partly because they were coming in, it seemed to us at the time, wired a little bit differently.

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So we were having those issues with four, four, and five and six year olds who were like running outta

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classrooms

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in ways we hadn't seen before.

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But also we had like seven and 80 year olds cutting themselves, doing self-harm threats.

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Uh, kids that, you know, seventh and eighth grade talk about depression in ways that they hadn't.

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So

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we know that

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something

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shifted at, initially, we attributed it to the pandemic.

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This is 2022 we're talking about.

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As we

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got further from that and we got more into post pandemic life, we saw that those things weren't subsiding and that there were some other things tied to it as well that were going on.

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Not just academically, but also communication wise and social emotionally.

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So I think that, um.

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That we saw that something had tipped in the kids and the pandemic was a huge tipping point.

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As we got further into the research, we found that really it started prior to

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that.

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Bart: Could you talk a little bit more about when you realized that technology was moving from augmenting instruction to replacing it?

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Frank: I mean, we've been working in schools for together for 20, going on 22

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years.

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when,

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when schools first started bringing technology, I mean, I was a teacher in the 1990s and she was a

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teacher in

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the 1980s

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and we had, you know, like one laptop or one, one, uh, one

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desktop

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and you played

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Oregon Trail

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on it or whatever.

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Uh, you use it for word processing.

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In

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the early two thousands, we started seeing, you know, three or four or five

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imax

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uh, and we talk about this in the book, the evolution of that, how those then got replaced by

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laptop.

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And then the Chromebook card came in

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as broadband expanded, at some point in about

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2014. I think that's a

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hinge point for us in our book and other books about this as well.

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In the work by Jonathan Hyde and Johann Hari, about 2014, there was some sort of tipping point where like all of a sudden all the hardware was in place and what happened right at that point?

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If you think back to it historically, and we talk about this I think in chapter one, that No Child Left Behind went away at the end of 2015.

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Um,

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and what came in to replace it, um, essa, every Student Succeeds Act was a lot more, you know, like personally tailored instruction, less accountability on, on assessments.

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Not

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that.

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You know,

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drug

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coding accountability is great either.

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But once that

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shift

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happened,

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through the

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E-Rate, um, funding happened where funding exploded to where every district could have broadband and be able to have 30 Chromebooks on at the same time in every

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classroom.

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Once those things happened, there was like just this surge of programs that came into classrooms.

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And so I think the tipping point was probably 20 16, 20 17.

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We didn't realize that at the

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time, I think

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we realized that after the fact that wait a minute, what's happening here?

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And so we shifted in our own programs.

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We've shifted away from that into like more just interacting with each other type of work because we've seen the shift happen in the school day, in the afterschool programs and as a result of COVID.

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So I think all of those things together really kind of brought it

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together.

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Gene Tavernetti: And then I think for me, as I was working with, with schools, during COVID, I mean basically I thought I was retired on, you know, March 13th, 2000, and when,

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uh.

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The interest from the districts were, okay, can you coach us in how to do this distance

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learning how, how to do, how to do this, this virtual learning.

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And so, the schools got so wrapped up in that, how do we, how do we continue to provide services

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to kids,

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even though they knew they weren't doing a good job, but

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because

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of the things that, Frank had talked about.

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I mean, there were some schools that would just check out the Chromebooks.

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So the kids had, uh, they were available for lessons, and they did the best they could during that process.

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But when they came back, the teachers didn't give

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it

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up.

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The

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teachers, it was almost like they were doing the same type of virtual lessons, but in person with

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the kids.

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And so they are the ones that weren't giving up The laptops and the Chromebooks when we, when we came back.

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so even though stuff was happening before the pandemic, that distance learning, that

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whole,

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way to look at, that distance learning really made an impact on, on moving forward.

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So

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that

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really.

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that really

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showed me the captivity part.

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They were, they were captive at that point.

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Bart: So in a sense, the pandemic didn't create the problem, it accelerated it.

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What became normalized that should have remained temporary?

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Frank: I mean,

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I think

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education being transactional.

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We talk about this as well

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in the book,

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how, to me,

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uh, to bar to, to jean, to you, um, who are lifelong educators.

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education is

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transformational.

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And at that point

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out of necessity, I mean, we understand we were working in schools.

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We were all working in schools at the time on March 13th,

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like,

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like Jean mentioned, um, it became transactional.

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We had to have some sense of normalcy for

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the kiddos.

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And so

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we transitioned into,

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um, into the Zoom learning and to, you know, Google meets learning.

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Some of that never went away.

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We, um, walk into classrooms now.

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I think what differentiates our book, uh, from others that are really, that are really well written, but what differentiates us is that we're actually in classrooms.

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We were in classrooms together yesterday.

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Um, we were in 22 classrooms yesterday.

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I sat and planned lessons with teachers on Monday.

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Gene tomorrow is gonna go back and observe classrooms, uh, at a high school.

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And what we notice is there is such a plethora of material.

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There

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are so many companies that are vying for that digital dollar.

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You know, that it overwhelms teachers' decision making.

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And I

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think what's happened is that it's become like almost, too much riches.

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And I think that's what instead of, instead of like really thinking about what am I trying to achieve with this lesson,

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um, it's

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become more like, what of all these offerings that I can have digitally can the kids partake in?

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And I think that is what should have gone away that didn't go

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away.

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Bart: So based on all your observations, what most concerns you post pandemic?

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Gene Tavernetti: I think it goes back to things that we were doing 20 years ago.

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Just, you know, how do we present lessons?

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Well, and the way we always talked about, uh, instruction is in

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a well-designed, a well-designed lesson, which includes those transformational

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elements that, that

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Frank was talking about.

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So there is the teacher is leading.

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Students in conversation, in structured conversation, in lots of checking for understanding, in lots of, uh, making sure that the, the kids are paying
attention, which, which wasn't happening again, uh, during, during the pandemic, and which just was just assumed when you had the Chromebook out.

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you know, going back to some foundational things that, that, the research that we're, that we're looking at, I mean, it started in the fifties, sixties, that nothing's been disputed,

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but,

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uh, in this ageist society, there's just no, there is no, uh, institutional memory

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for stuff,

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you know, every, every 15 years.

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It seems like we're starting brand new,

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brand

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new.

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The things that we started out doing when we were working together, talking about, uh,

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using, uh, mini whiteboards, you know, to check for understanding.

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It's like we go back again.

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And never heard of it.

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Oh.

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Oh, really?

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Where did these come

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from?

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And so, uh, I, I, I think, you know, a lot of what we talk about in the book is, is, has been foundational since the eighties.

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Frank: I think, if I can piggyback on that, I think obviously those are all like classroom based concerns and a hundred percent I agree with 'em.

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I was telling, uh, Jean yesterday about a post that I came across, um, recently, and it said, it was a post-it

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that I wrote in 2015

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and I found it in a closet

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somewhere.

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And

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it said in 2000, and I wrote this in 2015, in 2005, we were working

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with teachers on using whiteboards

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to check for

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understanding.

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In 2015,

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we're working with

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teachers on using whiteboards to check

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for understanding.

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And the question is, in 2025, we'll be using whiteboards.

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And the answer was, yeah, that's what we were working on last

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year.

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You know,

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uh, so it's, it's like gene's talking about, it's like the stuff just goes away.

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In the book, we talk about, um, two really well-known metaphors in education.

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One is a Rip Van

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Winkle, you

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know, going to sleep and waking up a hundred years later.

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And he wakes up and he recognizes nothing.

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He looks around, he sees airports and he sees, you know, cars and everything.

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He's got no idea what anything is until he walks into a

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school and then

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he feels like, oh, I recognize this, this is a school.

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Right?

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So that's one we talk about, but we also talk about the pendulum.

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And the pendulum is actually even more well known in these, just these dramatic swings in practice.

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now we're seeing some backlash, I think.

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And just in the last three days there's been a, an article in the New York Times, About, um, you know, iPads in kindergarten and parents starting to rebel against that.

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That was yesterday,

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the, the 10th.

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Uh, on Friday.

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On Monday there was an article in education, uh, next, and it talked about, um, it, it was, uh, called logged in, tuned Out regarding middle school and high school students.

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They're on their Chromebooks.

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They tune out and we see that in practice when we're in the classrooms like we were yesterday.

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And there was another article by the, the gentleman who wrote a Digital Delusion, which is kind of a

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companion,

00:14:31.691 --> 00:14:33.581
not a companion, but a complimentary book to ours.

00:14:33.971 --> 00:14:44.670
And he pat some data about how as schools locked in to more and more digital, the nap scores kind of just hit a plateau and then have, have,

00:14:44.670 --> 00:14:47.010
uh, fallen over the last, over the last 10 years.

00:14:47.580 --> 00:14:48.840
So that's all instructionally.

00:14:49.830 --> 00:14:49.920
And

00:14:49.920 --> 00:14:55.170
so what we're seeing now is this pendulum possibly swinging back the other way towards, uh.

00:14:55.230 --> 00:14:55.290
Yeah,

00:14:55.860 --> 00:14:57.060
like do away with

00:14:57.060 --> 00:14:57.480
the screens.

00:14:57.480 --> 00:14:58.470
Well, you can't do that.

00:14:58.470 --> 00:15:04.440
You know, kids need to be able to interact with technology in a healthy way and which is what we talked about, just having balance.

00:15:04.801 --> 00:15:06.931
but I wanna go back to what Jim was talking about in your

00:15:06.931 --> 00:15:08.701
question about what most scares you.

00:15:09.331 --> 00:15:09.511
And I'll

00:15:09.511 --> 00:15:13.051
tell you what most scares me is, is broader, actually the

00:15:13.051 --> 00:15:13.741
schools,

00:15:14.221 --> 00:15:16.951
um, Johann Hari and still focus talks about this.

00:15:16.951 --> 00:15:22.291
Jonathan Hyde talks about an actions generation, but I think to me, the ones that even hit it more on the head are Nicholas Carr,

00:15:22.741 --> 00:15:22.981
like

00:15:22.981 --> 00:15:31.231
in Super Bloom and, um, Timothy Wu and, in, uh, attention Merchants, and even going back to Neil Postman, uh, in the 1980s,

00:15:31.831 --> 00:15:32.191
um,

00:15:32.221 --> 00:15:36.871
about how if adult attention spans and ability to

00:15:36.871 --> 00:15:38.791
focus and communicate well.

00:15:39.376 --> 00:15:40.906
And have multiple perspectives.

00:15:40.936 --> 00:15:41.926
If those are going

00:15:41.926 --> 00:15:44.050
downhill, then what happens to the next

00:15:44.050 --> 00:15:44.650
generation?

00:15:45.130 --> 00:15:45.340
You know?

00:15:45.340 --> 00:15:58.060
And we talk about that in the book, like a second grader or a third grader who's being acclimated to more and more intensification as far as what will get their attention more and more gamification.

00:15:58.617 --> 00:15:58.887
What

00:15:58.887 --> 00:16:03.957
will they need in the fourth grade when the fourth, they need more because a dopamine rush just won't be the same, right?

00:16:04.167 --> 00:16:06.957
So you keep on accelerating and augmenting that.

00:16:07.857 --> 00:16:10.557
What happens when those kids become, you know, voting age?

00:16:10.797 --> 00:16:13.497
And what we're getting is very disposable.

00:16:13.497 --> 00:16:13.977
Attention

00:16:13.977 --> 00:16:14.757
spans, I think

00:16:14.757 --> 00:16:15.897
is how I would refer to it.

00:16:16.377 --> 00:16:25.047
And I think that's what scares me the most is how do we tackle the huge issues we have, not just in the country, but in the world when we have.

00:16:25.617 --> 00:16:27.627
A citizenry in 20 years

00:16:27.987 --> 00:16:30.537
who have attention spans of 1920 seconds, which

00:16:30.537 --> 00:16:31.497
is what the research shows.

00:16:31.497 --> 00:16:34.077
Most recently, they can, you know, college students in a,

00:16:34.407 --> 00:16:34.587
I think

00:16:34.587 --> 00:16:38.237
it was a 2023 study, they have attention spans of about 20 seconds.

00:16:39.027 --> 00:16:40.977
People our age are about two and a half

00:16:40.977 --> 00:16:43.317
minutes, but we grew up analog, Right?

00:16:43.317 --> 00:16:45.837
What happens when today's second grader

00:16:46.017 --> 00:16:46.827
is in college?

00:16:46.827 --> 00:16:48.117
What will the attention span be then?

00:16:48.117 --> 00:16:48.267
And

00:16:48.267 --> 00:16:48.987
when they're running the

00:16:48.987 --> 00:16:49.407
country?

00:16:49.767 --> 00:16:49.917
So

00:16:49.917 --> 00:16:52.077
I think that's what scares me even more globally than

00:16:52.077 --> 00:16:53.167
what's going on in the classrooms.

00:16:53.907 --> 00:16:56.127
Gene Tavernetti: And And I think something that also

00:16:56.127 --> 00:16:59.907
is scary is talking about the, um, the different timeframes.

00:16:59.907 --> 00:17:00.837
10 years, 15

00:17:00.837 --> 00:17:01.287
years,

00:17:01.707 --> 00:17:01.947
you know?

00:17:01.947 --> 00:17:09.747
So now we have, uh, teachers, teachers and administrators who since this is so normal, they don't see any dangers.

00:17:10.842 --> 00:17:12.792
You know, they have to be, they have to be pointed out.

00:17:12.972 --> 00:17:19.302
But once they're pointed out, it's very, it's very clear, you know, that you walk into a classroom and all the laptops are up.

00:17:19.662 --> 00:17:27.042
You know, we know the teacher can't see, you know, they're, oh sure there's a monitoring program, but it's just not, it's just not the same.

00:17:27.372 --> 00:17:39.222
And so, so much has been normalized and, and it's very difficult, you know, we'll do a staff development, we'll do a training for administrators, and we have to tell 'em, shut your laptops, you know, get off your phone.

00:17:39.732 --> 00:17:40.122
And that's

00:17:40.122 --> 00:17:40.752
what, that's the,

00:17:40.842 --> 00:17:43.662
what we're talking about is, is that issue with kids.

00:17:43.662 --> 00:17:55.469
So, so it is, uh, bigger than schools, like you say, it's, it's, adults really have to really have to follow that lead and first of all, acknowledge that they're there as well.

00:17:55.544 --> 00:17:55.604
Yeah.

00:17:56.294 --> 00:17:57.224
And that it's not okay.

00:17:57.224 --> 00:17:58.544
We want things to be okay.

00:17:58.544 --> 00:17:59.684
It's not okay.

00:18:00.104 --> 00:18:07.122
Uh, but, but we're also competing with, technology companies that are, you know, funded by billionaires and,

00:18:07.212 --> 00:18:09.162
and it's just the promises that

00:18:09.162 --> 00:18:09.432
they,

00:18:09.432 --> 00:18:09.672
that

00:18:09.672 --> 00:18:10.242
they make,

00:18:10.692 --> 00:18:11.112
uh,

00:18:11.112 --> 00:18:11.322
they're

00:18:11.322 --> 00:18:12.102
too seductive.

00:18:13.092 --> 00:18:15.852
Frank: Tim w talks about this in attention merchants, how things that have become

00:18:15.852 --> 00:18:16.362
normalized,

00:18:16.362 --> 00:18:16.482
that

00:18:16.482 --> 00:18:16.992
were not

00:18:16.992 --> 00:18:17.232
like

00:18:17.562 --> 00:18:18.012
having

00:18:18.012 --> 00:18:18.132
a

00:18:18.132 --> 00:18:20.112
phone at the dinner table that just was not

00:18:20.322 --> 00:18:20.472
the

00:18:20.472 --> 00:18:20.832
norm

00:18:20.832 --> 00:18:21.192
before.

00:18:21.192 --> 00:18:21.492
Right.

00:18:21.882 --> 00:18:22.302
Or, you

00:18:22.302 --> 00:18:22.992
know, back in the,

00:18:23.022 --> 00:18:24.162
maybe early

00:18:24.192 --> 00:18:26.802
2010s, if the phone rang at

00:18:26.802 --> 00:18:27.562
church,

00:18:28.752 --> 00:18:30.522
you know, the priest might make a joke about it.

00:18:30.612 --> 00:18:31.542
Oh, God's calling.

00:18:31.542 --> 00:18:33.222
You know, now it's like something

00:18:33.222 --> 00:18:33.912
you expect

00:18:33.912 --> 00:18:34.002
the

00:18:34.002 --> 00:18:34.302
phones

00:18:34.302 --> 00:18:34.422
to

00:18:34.422 --> 00:18:34.782
ring in

00:18:34.782 --> 00:18:35.772
church and it's,

00:18:35.772 --> 00:18:35.982
and

00:18:35.982 --> 00:18:36.912
there shouldn't be,

00:18:37.392 --> 00:18:38.322
but it's become like,

00:18:38.322 --> 00:18:38.532
just

00:18:38.532 --> 00:18:39.852
normalized, like, like Chino was

00:18:39.852 --> 00:18:40.182
talking

00:18:40.182 --> 00:18:40.362
about.

00:18:40.362 --> 00:18:40.542
So I

00:18:40.542 --> 00:18:40.902
think

00:18:41.592 --> 00:18:41.862
in,

00:18:41.862 --> 00:18:43.272
uh, in chapter four

00:18:43.272 --> 00:18:43.392
we

00:18:43.392 --> 00:18:43.692
talk

00:18:43.692 --> 00:18:44.022
about,

00:18:44.052 --> 00:18:45.544
um, creating a

00:18:45.544 --> 00:18:47.824
a filter in classrooms for

00:18:47.824 --> 00:18:48.334
friction

00:18:48.339 --> 00:18:48.449
just

00:18:48.514 --> 00:18:48.574
to

00:18:48.574 --> 00:18:50.284
slow down and to be

00:18:50.284 --> 00:18:51.034
more thoughtful

00:18:51.034 --> 00:18:51.214
about

00:18:51.214 --> 00:18:51.484
what

00:18:51.484 --> 00:18:51.544
we

00:18:51.544 --> 00:18:51.694
bring

00:18:51.694 --> 00:18:52.504
into classrooms.

00:18:52.894 --> 00:18:53.014
When

00:18:53.014 --> 00:18:53.134
you're

00:18:53.134 --> 00:18:53.404
thinking

00:18:53.404 --> 00:18:53.584
about

00:18:53.584 --> 00:18:54.664
a textbook adoption,

00:18:54.732 --> 00:18:56.481
it takes about a year and a half, right?

00:18:56.481 --> 00:18:57.951
To, to adopt a textbook.

00:18:57.951 --> 00:19:01.011
You have to put it out to all the different stakeholders.

00:19:01.011 --> 00:19:01.731
You have public

00:19:01.731 --> 00:19:04.521
viewings of it, you know, do a seance

00:19:04.521 --> 00:19:05.001
over it.

00:19:05.391 --> 00:19:06.561
And to finally

00:19:06.561 --> 00:19:07.131
adopt

00:19:07.161 --> 00:19:07.311
a

00:19:07.311 --> 00:19:08.121
curriculum.

00:19:08.916 --> 00:19:09.396
Or

00:19:09.396 --> 00:19:13.476
I can just go online and download an app and have it in front of kids, you know, in a heartbeat.

00:19:13.476 --> 00:19:14.346
And, and there's ways

00:19:14.346 --> 00:19:14.736
to work

00:19:14.736 --> 00:19:15.096
around

00:19:15.096 --> 00:19:15.786
district,

00:19:16.296 --> 00:19:16.596
you know,

00:19:16.596 --> 00:19:17.406
district, uh,

00:19:17.436 --> 00:19:18.336
filters and such.

00:19:18.336 --> 00:19:18.666
So

00:19:18.939 --> 00:19:19.873
we talk about that,

00:19:19.873 --> 00:19:20.816
in chapter four

00:19:20.816 --> 00:19:21.146
of the book.

00:19:21.146 --> 00:19:21.956
We also talk about

00:19:22.256 --> 00:19:22.526
how

00:19:22.526 --> 00:19:23.486
this happened

00:19:23.696 --> 00:19:25.916
in classrooms, in schools within

00:19:25.916 --> 00:19:26.036
a

00:19:26.036 --> 00:19:26.846
broader digital

00:19:26.846 --> 00:19:27.356
immersion.

00:19:27.626 --> 00:19:27.776
It

00:19:27.776 --> 00:19:29.126
didn't happen in

00:19:29.126 --> 00:19:29.906
isolation.

00:19:30.146 --> 00:19:30.296
So

00:19:30.296 --> 00:19:30.536
I think

00:19:30.536 --> 00:19:30.806
part

00:19:30.806 --> 00:19:31.796
of what happened is because

00:19:31.796 --> 00:19:32.666
we were all

00:19:32.966 --> 00:19:33.386
learning

00:19:33.386 --> 00:19:35.336
how to to shop

00:19:35.336 --> 00:19:36.596
and be entertained

00:19:36.596 --> 00:19:39.866
and book our travel and use Google

00:19:39.866 --> 00:19:40.256
Maps

00:19:40.256 --> 00:19:40.766
and such,

00:19:41.396 --> 00:19:42.296
we didn't notice the

00:19:42.326 --> 00:19:42.536
same thing

00:19:42.536 --> 00:19:42.656
was

00:19:42.656 --> 00:19:43.046
going on

00:19:43.046 --> 00:19:43.796
in schools.

00:19:44.006 --> 00:19:44.576
And that's partly

00:19:44.576 --> 00:19:44.726
why

00:19:44.726 --> 00:19:45.296
it snuck up

00:19:45.296 --> 00:19:45.626
on us, I

00:19:45.626 --> 00:19:45.896
think.

00:19:45.896 --> 00:19:46.016
And

00:19:46.016 --> 00:19:46.586
it wasn't,

00:19:47.396 --> 00:19:47.846
uh, I think

00:19:47.846 --> 00:19:48.866
maybe it was Johann Hari

00:19:48.866 --> 00:19:48.926
who

00:19:48.926 --> 00:19:49.226
talks

00:19:49.226 --> 00:19:50.996
about it, um, in stolen focus.

00:19:50.996 --> 00:19:51.326
That,

00:19:51.604 --> 00:19:51.814
what

00:19:51.814 --> 00:19:52.474
COVID did.

00:19:52.474 --> 00:19:52.624
It's

00:19:52.624 --> 00:19:53.674
almost like that frog

00:19:53.674 --> 00:19:53.914
that's

00:19:53.914 --> 00:19:54.694
boiling in the,

00:19:54.694 --> 00:19:54.814
you

00:19:54.814 --> 00:19:55.024
know, in

00:19:55.024 --> 00:19:55.504
the water.

00:19:55.684 --> 00:19:56.494
And it's turning up

00:19:56.494 --> 00:19:57.424
really slowly

00:19:58.084 --> 00:19:58.324
and it

00:19:58.324 --> 00:19:58.594
doesn't

00:19:58.594 --> 00:20:00.446
realize What's happening

00:20:00.446 --> 00:20:00.776
to it.

00:20:01.196 --> 00:20:01.526
What

00:20:01.526 --> 00:20:01.916
COVID

00:20:01.916 --> 00:20:02.786
did was it turned

00:20:02.786 --> 00:20:02.876
the

00:20:02.876 --> 00:20:03.176
heat

00:20:03.176 --> 00:20:03.476
up really

00:20:03.476 --> 00:20:05.756
fast so that all of a sudden those of us that were able

00:20:05.756 --> 00:20:07.706
to step out of it afterwards realized,

00:20:07.706 --> 00:20:09.146
Hey, something's happened

00:20:09.146 --> 00:20:09.236
here.

00:20:09.236 --> 00:20:09.416
That

00:20:09.416 --> 00:20:10.166
isn't good.

00:20:10.426 --> 00:20:10.576
and

00:20:10.576 --> 00:20:10.816
I think

00:20:10.816 --> 00:20:11.026
that's

00:20:11.026 --> 00:20:11.296
what's,

00:20:11.296 --> 00:20:12.526
you know, what's led us on this path.

00:20:12.526 --> 00:20:13.276
We started talking about

00:20:13.276 --> 00:20:13.396
this

00:20:13.396 --> 00:20:14.086
three years ago.

00:20:14.566 --> 00:20:14.956
Uh, and I'm

00:20:14.956 --> 00:20:15.346
glad to,

00:20:15.526 --> 00:20:15.676
to

00:20:15.676 --> 00:20:15.856
see

00:20:15.856 --> 00:20:16.126
that there's

00:20:16.126 --> 00:20:17.866
more, I think voices

00:20:17.866 --> 00:20:18.046
out

00:20:18.046 --> 00:20:19.306
there now saying the same thing.

00:20:20.116 --> 00:20:26.296
Bart: I also hear from teachers who report declines in working memory, sustained attention and task persistence.

00:20:26.866 --> 00:20:29.776
What does the research say about what's happening cognitively?

00:20:30.641 --> 00:20:30.971
Gene Tavernetti: Well,

00:20:30.971 --> 00:20:32.891
in digital delusions, uh,

00:20:33.851 --> 00:20:37.301
uh, there's a lot of data that that just shows

00:20:37.301 --> 00:20:38.201
declining.

00:20:38.741 --> 00:20:40.301
Declining cognitively.

00:20:40.301 --> 00:20:45.341
I mean, he's pretty, he's pretty bold in how he, how he says that he doesn't talk about a, a learning

00:20:45.341 --> 00:20:46.391
loss, but

00:20:46.391 --> 00:20:48.851
he just, you know, he's got data that, that

00:20:48.851 --> 00:20:49.391
show

00:20:49.900 --> 00:20:55.450
where the, you know, this is the first generation that, that is not doing as well as the prior generation, or

00:20:55.450 --> 00:20:55.540
at

00:20:55.540 --> 00:20:55.900
least

00:20:55.900 --> 00:20:56.050
as

00:20:56.050 --> 00:20:56.380
well.

00:20:57.010 --> 00:20:57.430
so

00:20:57.430 --> 00:20:57.640
so

00:20:57.640 --> 00:21:00.580
there's evidence, there's evidence out there, and it's, it's

00:21:00.580 --> 00:21:00.850
pretty

00:21:00.850 --> 00:21:01.630
indisputable.

00:21:02.207 --> 00:21:02.605
Frank: Uh, and I

00:21:02.605 --> 00:21:03.175
think, I

00:21:03.175 --> 00:21:03.445
think

00:21:03.445 --> 00:21:03.775
he,

00:21:03.775 --> 00:21:05.725
um, he talked about that

00:21:05.725 --> 00:21:06.865
this generation is

00:21:06.865 --> 00:21:06.955
the

00:21:06.955 --> 00:21:07.705
first one that is

00:21:07.705 --> 00:21:08.725
like the,

00:21:08.725 --> 00:21:08.905
the

00:21:09.055 --> 00:21:09.175
IQ

00:21:09.865 --> 00:21:13.945
is actually lower than the parents' generation by about six points in the

00:21:13.945 --> 00:21:15.235
last 120 years.

00:21:15.595 --> 00:21:16.645
More recently, just

00:21:16.645 --> 00:21:17.335
on, on Monday.

00:21:17.395 --> 00:21:19.315
I think he came out with that article that showed where

00:21:19.315 --> 00:21:19.405
the

00:21:19.405 --> 00:21:20.125
NA scores have

00:21:20.125 --> 00:21:20.575
dropped

00:21:20.965 --> 00:21:21.625
over time.

00:21:21.925 --> 00:21:22.795
But I think, so

00:21:22.795 --> 00:21:23.005
that's

00:21:23.005 --> 00:21:25.105
cognitively, but I think what we're seeing is even

00:21:25.105 --> 00:21:25.225
at

00:21:25.225 --> 00:21:26.185
the precognitive

00:21:26.185 --> 00:21:27.355
level, even

00:21:27.355 --> 00:21:29.725
things like, like holding

00:21:29.785 --> 00:21:30.895
information and working

00:21:30.895 --> 00:21:31.345
memory.

00:21:31.915 --> 00:21:37.525
And being able to carry it from that center to that center that has dropped off, you know, or

00:21:37.525 --> 00:21:39.565
things like, uh, being able to

00:21:39.565 --> 00:21:44.605
lock in to what's on the board and then bringing that information down and copying

00:21:44.605 --> 00:21:44.665
it

00:21:44.755 --> 00:21:44.845
and

00:21:44.845 --> 00:21:45.385
writing down

00:21:45.385 --> 00:21:45.745
here

00:21:46.255 --> 00:21:46.465
and

00:21:46.465 --> 00:21:47.635
then looking back up again.

00:21:47.785 --> 00:21:51.025
That has dropped handwriting, you know, because of,

00:21:51.235 --> 00:21:51.655
we run

00:21:51.655 --> 00:21:52.525
school programs,

00:21:52.855 --> 00:21:53.035
we

00:21:53.035 --> 00:21:53.335
have,

00:21:53.335 --> 00:21:53.605
you know,

00:21:53.785 --> 00:21:54.355
students do

00:21:54.355 --> 00:21:54.625
things

00:21:54.625 --> 00:21:54.715
and

00:21:54.715 --> 00:21:55.015
so we have

00:21:55.045 --> 00:21:55.915
instant reports

00:21:56.305 --> 00:21:58.045
that kiddos write And

00:21:58.045 --> 00:21:58.795
we actually have really

00:21:58.795 --> 00:21:59.305
good data.

00:21:59.305 --> 00:21:59.545
Going

00:21:59.545 --> 00:22:00.175
back and comparing

00:22:00.175 --> 00:22:00.925
handwriting

00:22:01.435 --> 00:22:02.635
from 2014

00:22:02.635 --> 00:22:03.205
with handwriting

00:22:03.205 --> 00:22:03.325
from

00:22:03.325 --> 00:22:06.085
2024 is dramatically different.

00:22:06.295 --> 00:22:07.615
Handwriting of a second

00:22:07.615 --> 00:22:08.035
grader

00:22:08.965 --> 00:22:09.085
in

00:22:09.085 --> 00:22:09.730
2014

00:22:10.255 --> 00:22:10.855
is about

00:22:10.855 --> 00:22:11.545
equivalent with

00:22:11.545 --> 00:22:11.935
handwriting

00:22:11.935 --> 00:22:12.055
from

00:22:12.055 --> 00:22:12.145
a

00:22:12.145 --> 00:22:12.445
fourth

00:22:12.445 --> 00:22:13.045
grader now.

00:22:13.525 --> 00:22:14.395
So there, that's fine.

00:22:14.395 --> 00:22:16.315
Motor skills that are being lost as well.

00:22:16.315 --> 00:22:16.825
So it is,

00:22:17.125 --> 00:22:17.785
there's those things you

00:22:17.785 --> 00:22:18.805
can see that you can

00:22:18.805 --> 00:22:19.375
measure.

00:22:19.715 --> 00:22:19.895
and

00:22:19.895 --> 00:22:20.195
then there's

00:22:20.195 --> 00:22:20.675
things that

00:22:21.125 --> 00:22:21.485
unless

00:22:21.485 --> 00:22:21.605
you're

00:22:21.605 --> 00:22:21.935
looking

00:22:21.935 --> 00:22:22.445
for them,

00:22:23.015 --> 00:22:24.365
you know, you don't necessarily see it.

00:22:24.365 --> 00:22:25.265
And so we talk about

00:22:25.265 --> 00:22:25.805
a little bit of this

00:22:25.805 --> 00:22:25.865
in

00:22:25.865 --> 00:22:26.705
chapter six.

00:22:27.125 --> 00:22:27.455
We talk

00:22:27.455 --> 00:22:28.295
about how.

00:22:29.165 --> 00:22:29.345
It's

00:22:29.345 --> 00:22:29.525
not

00:22:29.525 --> 00:22:29.765
enough

00:22:29.765 --> 00:22:30.125
to just

00:22:30.125 --> 00:22:30.545
focus on

00:22:30.545 --> 00:22:30.935
schools.

00:22:30.995 --> 00:22:31.205
You know,

00:22:31.205 --> 00:22:31.565
kiddos

00:22:31.565 --> 00:22:31.805
are in

00:22:31.805 --> 00:22:32.375
schools

00:22:32.375 --> 00:22:33.065
about

00:22:33.155 --> 00:22:33.815
12%

00:22:33.815 --> 00:22:34.415
of the calendar

00:22:34.415 --> 00:22:34.625
year,

00:22:35.105 --> 00:22:35.645
The calendar year is

00:22:35.645 --> 00:22:36.635
8,700

00:22:36.635 --> 00:22:38.465
hours and the kids spend about

00:22:38.465 --> 00:22:38.825
11

00:22:38.825 --> 00:22:38.915
or

00:22:38.915 --> 00:22:39.785
1200 of it in

00:22:40.595 --> 00:22:40.895
So

00:22:40.895 --> 00:22:41.075
what

00:22:41.075 --> 00:22:41.405
happens to

00:22:41.405 --> 00:22:41.465
the

00:22:41.465 --> 00:22:41.645
other

00:22:41.645 --> 00:22:42.275
6,000

00:22:42.275 --> 00:22:42.545
hours

00:22:42.545 --> 00:22:43.625
or 7,000 hours?

00:22:43.727 --> 00:22:43.937
so

00:22:43.937 --> 00:22:44.297
part of

00:22:44.297 --> 00:22:44.747
that is,

00:22:45.227 --> 00:22:46.037
is working

00:22:46.187 --> 00:22:46.397
at

00:22:46.397 --> 00:22:48.017
the superintendent and principal

00:22:48.017 --> 00:22:48.497
level,

00:22:48.557 --> 00:22:52.985
at school leader level, board level, working with everything from

00:22:52.985 --> 00:22:53.945
prenatal

00:22:54.455 --> 00:22:55.055
education

00:22:55.055 --> 00:22:55.775
providers

00:22:56.285 --> 00:22:56.975
to,

00:22:57.425 --> 00:22:58.445
you know, colleges

00:22:58.835 --> 00:23:00.755
and, and really taking a community effort.

00:23:00.755 --> 00:23:01.085
Because

00:23:01.085 --> 00:23:01.805
what's happening

00:23:01.985 --> 00:23:02.765
in schools is

00:23:02.765 --> 00:23:04.085
only 12% of the year.

00:23:04.415 --> 00:23:04.565
It's

00:23:04.565 --> 00:23:05.105
what's happening

00:23:05.105 --> 00:23:05.735
outside of it.

00:23:05.735 --> 00:23:05.945
Right.

00:23:06.155 --> 00:23:06.365
So

00:23:06.365 --> 00:23:06.485
in

00:23:06.485 --> 00:23:10.565
our afterschool programs and our summer programs, we've actually really done away, unless the kids

00:23:10.565 --> 00:23:10.595
are

00:23:10.595 --> 00:23:10.805
doing

00:23:10.805 --> 00:23:11.105
Lego

00:23:11.105 --> 00:23:12.485
robotics, because we

00:23:12.485 --> 00:23:12.995
do want them

00:23:12.995 --> 00:23:17.765
engineering and thinking in that way, unless they're doing that or they have homework on their Chromebooks,

00:23:17.855 --> 00:23:18.065
they're

00:23:18.065 --> 00:23:18.515
basically

00:23:18.515 --> 00:23:19.535
not on screens at all.

00:23:19.865 --> 00:23:20.585
They're interacting

00:23:20.585 --> 00:23:21.155
with each other and.

00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:22.460
We put

00:23:22.460 --> 00:23:22.550
in

00:23:22.550 --> 00:23:22.760
place

00:23:22.760 --> 00:23:23.150
a couple of

00:23:23.150 --> 00:23:24.980
things that we talk about in the book.

00:23:24.980 --> 00:23:29.900
One's called pencil practice, where they're actually learning how to transfer information,

00:23:29.900 --> 00:23:29.990
how

00:23:29.990 --> 00:23:30.110
to

00:23:30.110 --> 00:23:30.560
shift

00:23:30.560 --> 00:23:32.510
and lock their focus.

00:23:32.570 --> 00:23:32.930
We put

00:23:32.930 --> 00:23:34.580
in place like learning centers for them

00:23:34.580 --> 00:23:34.670
to

00:23:34.670 --> 00:23:34.970
have

00:23:34.970 --> 00:23:35.720
to memorize

00:23:36.380 --> 00:23:36.530
the

00:23:36.530 --> 00:23:37.040
directions

00:23:37.040 --> 00:23:37.280
over

00:23:37.280 --> 00:23:37.670
there are

00:23:37.670 --> 00:23:39.440
such, and then I'm gonna do that for

00:23:39.470 --> 00:23:39.980
five minutes and

00:23:39.980 --> 00:23:40.070
then

00:23:40.070 --> 00:23:40.400
go over

00:23:40.430 --> 00:23:40.760
there

00:23:41.150 --> 00:23:41.300
and

00:23:41.300 --> 00:23:41.390
have

00:23:41.390 --> 00:23:41.960
a different set

00:23:41.960 --> 00:23:42.590
of directions.

00:23:42.830 --> 00:23:43.460
'cause they're not getting

00:23:43.460 --> 00:23:43.850
a chance to

00:23:43.850 --> 00:23:46.100
practice that when they're just going from one app

00:23:46.370 --> 00:23:46.520
to

00:23:46.520 --> 00:23:46.640
the

00:23:46.640 --> 00:23:47.090
next

00:23:47.090 --> 00:23:47.360
on their

00:23:47.360 --> 00:23:47.960
screens.

00:23:48.230 --> 00:23:48.440
And

00:23:48.440 --> 00:23:48.830
so

00:23:49.130 --> 00:23:49.460
there's a

00:23:49.460 --> 00:23:50.450
cognitive decline,

00:23:50.540 --> 00:23:51.110
you know, measured

00:23:51.110 --> 00:23:51.830
by test scores

00:23:51.830 --> 00:23:52.280
and such.

00:23:52.580 --> 00:23:53.720
But then below that,

00:23:53.720 --> 00:23:54.170
below that,

00:23:54.170 --> 00:23:54.290
there's

00:23:54.290 --> 00:23:55.040
a precognitive

00:23:55.040 --> 00:23:56.180
skills that we're really worried

00:23:56.180 --> 00:23:56.450
about.

00:23:56.810 --> 00:23:57.170
and We can

00:23:57.170 --> 00:23:57.620
think about

00:23:57.650 --> 00:23:58.250
ourselves.

00:23:58.334 --> 00:23:58.484
you know,

00:23:58.484 --> 00:23:59.264
memorizing phone

00:23:59.264 --> 00:23:59.684
numbers.

00:24:00.164 --> 00:24:02.294
We used to know thirty, forty, fifty phone numbers.

00:24:02.294 --> 00:24:02.474
Now

00:24:02.474 --> 00:24:02.594
we

00:24:02.594 --> 00:24:02.924
know like

00:24:02.924 --> 00:24:03.224
maybe

00:24:03.254 --> 00:24:05.711
three, and, and Nicholas Carr talked about

00:24:05.711 --> 00:24:05.831
this

00:24:05.831 --> 00:24:05.921
in

00:24:05.921 --> 00:24:06.011
the

00:24:06.011 --> 00:24:06.521
shallows.

00:24:06.911 --> 00:24:07.481
Very early

00:24:07.481 --> 00:24:07.721
book

00:24:07.721 --> 00:24:08.441
2010,

00:24:09.011 --> 00:24:09.311
talked

00:24:09.311 --> 00:24:10.451
about William James

00:24:10.451 --> 00:24:10.961
an American

00:24:10.961 --> 00:24:11.711
psychologist

00:24:11.711 --> 00:24:12.041
who

00:24:12.611 --> 00:24:15.731
compared learning, um, to, you

00:24:15.731 --> 00:24:15.881
know,

00:24:15.881 --> 00:24:16.331
water

00:24:16.331 --> 00:24:16.691
cutting

00:24:16.691 --> 00:24:16.841
through

00:24:16.841 --> 00:24:17.406
the sand

00:24:18.131 --> 00:24:19.211
and how water

00:24:19.211 --> 00:24:19.931
cuts through a sand

00:24:19.931 --> 00:24:20.021
and

00:24:20.021 --> 00:24:20.081
it

00:24:20.081 --> 00:24:20.441
creates

00:24:20.441 --> 00:24:20.981
a channel.

00:24:21.551 --> 00:24:22.031
So the next

00:24:22.031 --> 00:24:22.211
time

00:24:22.211 --> 00:24:22.511
water

00:24:22.511 --> 00:24:23.081
comes the same

00:24:23.081 --> 00:24:25.331
way, it'll probably find that channel, right?

00:24:25.721 --> 00:24:27.431
Same thing's going on with neural pathways.

00:24:27.431 --> 00:24:29.351
It's making those channels deeper and deeper

00:24:29.351 --> 00:24:29.831
and deeper.

00:24:30.431 --> 00:24:33.281
And so once you practice certain things, like

00:24:33.281 --> 00:24:33.641
not

00:24:33.641 --> 00:24:34.241
memorizing

00:24:34.241 --> 00:24:36.071
phone numbers guess

00:24:36.071 --> 00:24:36.191
what

00:24:36.191 --> 00:24:36.791
your brain's gonna

00:24:36.791 --> 00:24:37.001
do?

00:24:37.091 --> 00:24:39.191
Not memorize that phone number, especially if it knows

00:24:39.491 --> 00:24:39.941
it doesn't

00:24:39.941 --> 00:24:40.121
need

00:24:40.121 --> 00:24:40.331
to.

00:24:40.661 --> 00:24:41.081
And that's

00:24:41.081 --> 00:24:41.381
not,

00:24:41.441 --> 00:24:42.431
not as necessary,

00:24:42.761 --> 00:24:43.151
but things

00:24:43.151 --> 00:24:43.331
like

00:24:43.331 --> 00:24:43.721
having,

00:24:44.981 --> 00:24:46.721
awareness about the environment.

00:24:46.721 --> 00:24:47.411
Like one of the things that

00:24:47.411 --> 00:24:47.501
we

00:24:47.501 --> 00:24:47.741
noticed

00:24:47.741 --> 00:24:48.281
very early

00:24:48.281 --> 00:24:48.551
on

00:24:49.241 --> 00:24:49.481
with

00:24:49.481 --> 00:24:49.691
our

00:24:49.691 --> 00:24:52.101
staff applicants, you know, again, our 20, 21,

00:24:52.101 --> 00:24:53.771
22 year olds, is we

00:24:53.771 --> 00:24:53.951
would

00:24:53.951 --> 00:24:54.341
ask

00:24:54.341 --> 00:24:54.761
them,

00:24:54.911 --> 00:24:56.831
um, where do you

00:24:56.831 --> 00:24:57.281
live?

00:24:58.466 --> 00:24:58.736
Like

00:24:58.736 --> 00:24:59.306
the address,

00:24:59.306 --> 00:25:00.176
the cross streets.

00:25:00.206 --> 00:25:00.326
And

00:25:00.326 --> 00:25:00.416
the

00:25:00.416 --> 00:25:01.646
reason we needed to know that is so we

00:25:01.646 --> 00:25:02.216
knew like

00:25:02.216 --> 00:25:02.726
what schools

00:25:02.726 --> 00:25:04.676
to place in that, because we had like 35 schools

00:25:05.077 --> 00:25:05.287
they didn't

00:25:05.287 --> 00:25:05.987
know the cross streets.

00:25:06.787 --> 00:25:07.027
I

00:25:07.027 --> 00:25:07.207
live

00:25:07.207 --> 00:25:07.537
over by

00:25:07.537 --> 00:25:08.227
the Circle K.

00:25:08.317 --> 00:25:08.437
Like

00:25:08.437 --> 00:25:09.157
what do you mean the circle

00:25:09.157 --> 00:25:09.457
K

00:25:09.907 --> 00:25:10.477
by the Circle

00:25:10.477 --> 00:25:10.567
K

00:25:10.567 --> 00:25:11.617
behind the nail salon.

00:25:11.647 --> 00:25:13.657
Like we have a lot of nail salons, you know, like you need

00:25:13.657 --> 00:25:14.317
to know

00:25:14.955 --> 00:25:15.165
how

00:25:15.165 --> 00:25:17.805
do you find yourself in

00:25:18.045 --> 00:25:18.135
a

00:25:18.135 --> 00:25:18.315
three

00:25:18.315 --> 00:25:18.855
dimensional

00:25:18.855 --> 00:25:19.545
space

00:25:19.905 --> 00:25:20.325
if you don't

00:25:20.325 --> 00:25:22.365
have that sense of space of geography?

00:25:22.695 --> 00:25:22.965
So

00:25:22.965 --> 00:25:23.295
I think

00:25:23.295 --> 00:25:23.685
what we're

00:25:23.685 --> 00:25:24.435
losing

00:25:24.945 --> 00:25:25.215
goes

00:25:25.215 --> 00:25:25.605
well

00:25:25.605 --> 00:25:25.965
beyond

00:25:25.965 --> 00:25:28.545
cognitive into like some sociocognitive things that

00:25:28.545 --> 00:25:28.755
make

00:25:28.755 --> 00:25:28.935
us

00:25:28.935 --> 00:25:29.295
be able

00:25:29.295 --> 00:25:29.505
to,

00:25:29.895 --> 00:25:30.525
to, function.

00:25:31.125 --> 00:25:33.465
Gene Tavernetti: And I think without an awareness of what,

00:25:33.525 --> 00:25:34.035
what Frank's

00:25:34.035 --> 00:25:37.545
talking about, we look for technology

00:25:37.545 --> 00:25:38.025
to help us

00:25:38.025 --> 00:25:38.805
get out of that.

00:25:38.925 --> 00:25:42.645
So, so, and I think again, that's where these, these vendors are so good.

00:25:42.795 --> 00:25:43.695
Oh, you have a problem.

00:25:43.695 --> 00:25:45.165
Your kids aren't performing well in this.

00:25:45.165 --> 00:25:45.975
We got an app.

00:25:46.485 --> 00:25:46.755
We

00:25:46.755 --> 00:25:46.905
got

00:25:46.905 --> 00:25:47.625
a platform.

00:25:47.985 --> 00:25:49.810
And so again, the

00:25:49.905 --> 00:25:51.947
the irony is, really

00:25:51.947 --> 00:25:52.937
shows the captivity.

00:25:53.447 --> 00:25:54.377
Like, like, we've got a

00:25:54.377 --> 00:25:54.797
problem

00:25:54.797 --> 00:26:00.177
caused by this, but the same people are gonna help pull us out, which doesn't happen.

00:26:00.880 --> 00:26:04.690
Bart: Could you explain screen inferiority in reading comprehension?

00:26:06.295 --> 00:26:06.565
Frank: Yeah.

00:26:06.565 --> 00:26:07.390
So Johann Hari

00:26:07.390 --> 00:26:07.830
talks about

00:26:07.885 --> 00:26:08.095
that in

00:26:08.095 --> 00:26:08.965
stolen focus.

00:26:09.025 --> 00:26:09.475
Um,

00:26:09.565 --> 00:26:10.645
and it's, there's

00:26:10.645 --> 00:26:10.915
quite

00:26:10.915 --> 00:26:10.975
a

00:26:10.975 --> 00:26:11.665
few studies

00:26:11.995 --> 00:26:12.235
by

00:26:12.235 --> 00:26:12.475
now

00:26:12.475 --> 00:26:12.625
that

00:26:12.625 --> 00:26:13.465
have shown it that,

00:26:13.701 --> 00:26:14.121
because

00:26:14.121 --> 00:26:14.331
when

00:26:14.331 --> 00:26:15.081
we read,

00:26:15.547 --> 00:26:15.847
we

00:26:15.847 --> 00:26:15.997
are

00:26:15.997 --> 00:26:16.507
tracking

00:26:16.507 --> 00:26:16.807
left

00:26:16.807 --> 00:26:16.957
to

00:26:16.957 --> 00:26:17.257
right,

00:26:17.527 --> 00:26:17.857
right?

00:26:18.217 --> 00:26:18.757
And

00:26:18.757 --> 00:26:18.937
if

00:26:18.937 --> 00:26:19.027
we're

00:26:19.027 --> 00:26:19.267
reading

00:26:19.267 --> 00:26:20.857
a book, things don't pop

00:26:20.857 --> 00:26:21.277
out at you.

00:26:21.577 --> 00:26:22.597
You're not expecting

00:26:22.627 --> 00:26:22.897
things

00:26:22.897 --> 00:26:22.987
to

00:26:22.987 --> 00:26:23.437
pop out

00:26:23.437 --> 00:26:23.827
at you.

00:26:24.247 --> 00:26:25.297
Um, there's

00:26:25.297 --> 00:26:26.827
a tactile connection.

00:26:26.827 --> 00:26:28.657
There's, There's, a connection to the

00:26:28.657 --> 00:26:28.897
brain

00:26:28.897 --> 00:26:28.987
that

00:26:28.987 --> 00:26:29.587
is different

00:26:29.947 --> 00:26:30.277
than when we

00:26:30.277 --> 00:26:30.577
read on

00:26:30.577 --> 00:26:30.997
screens.

00:26:31.177 --> 00:26:31.327
When

00:26:31.327 --> 00:26:31.387
we

00:26:31.387 --> 00:26:31.597
read on

00:26:31.597 --> 00:26:32.017
screens,

00:26:32.017 --> 00:26:34.777
we're reading, uh, we're skimming and scanning

00:26:34.777 --> 00:26:35.077
more.

00:26:35.407 --> 00:26:36.397
We're expecting

00:26:36.457 --> 00:26:37.657
more things to,

00:26:37.657 --> 00:26:37.897
to be

00:26:37.897 --> 00:26:38.437
going on with

00:26:38.437 --> 00:26:38.927
the, with the,

00:26:39.517 --> 00:26:39.667
the

00:26:39.667 --> 00:26:40.357
text around

00:26:40.357 --> 00:26:40.507
it.

00:26:40.867 --> 00:26:41.107
And

00:26:41.107 --> 00:26:41.407
so

00:26:41.407 --> 00:26:42.127
what his.

00:26:42.652 --> 00:26:42.922
Book

00:26:42.922 --> 00:26:43.612
shows

00:26:44.002 --> 00:26:44.362
is

00:26:44.362 --> 00:26:44.632
that

00:26:44.632 --> 00:26:45.262
by the time the

00:26:45.262 --> 00:26:45.502
kids

00:26:45.502 --> 00:26:45.742
are in

00:26:45.742 --> 00:26:46.492
third grade,

00:26:47.302 --> 00:26:48.352
um, there's about,

00:26:48.562 --> 00:26:49.852
about a two thirds of

00:26:49.852 --> 00:26:49.912
a

00:26:49.912 --> 00:26:51.472
year loss if they're

00:26:51.472 --> 00:26:51.862
reading

00:26:51.862 --> 00:26:52.372
primarily

00:26:52.372 --> 00:26:53.122
on screens

00:26:53.422 --> 00:26:53.932
versus reading

00:26:53.932 --> 00:26:54.802
primarily,

00:26:55.289 --> 00:26:55.949
on text.

00:26:56.329 --> 00:26:56.479
and

00:26:56.479 --> 00:26:56.689
then that,

00:26:56.749 --> 00:26:58.279
that carries, you know, that carries, and we

00:26:58.279 --> 00:26:58.729
see that

00:26:59.149 --> 00:26:59.809
there's actually

00:26:59.809 --> 00:26:59.989
a,

00:26:59.989 --> 00:27:00.229
an

00:27:00.229 --> 00:27:01.099
article in,

00:27:01.129 --> 00:27:04.159
um, I'm sorry, not an article, a quote in the book

00:27:04.159 --> 00:27:04.369
from

00:27:04.369 --> 00:27:04.459
a

00:27:04.459 --> 00:27:05.029
teacher,

00:27:06.319 --> 00:27:06.469
who,

00:27:06.469 --> 00:27:07.609
you know, she

00:27:07.609 --> 00:27:07.849
taught

00:27:07.849 --> 00:27:07.999
for

00:27:07.999 --> 00:27:09.469
37 years college, a

00:27:09.469 --> 00:27:09.739
reading

00:27:09.739 --> 00:27:10.249
specialist

00:27:10.249 --> 00:27:10.429
and a

00:27:10.429 --> 00:27:11.209
college professor.

00:27:11.689 --> 00:27:12.169
And,

00:27:12.169 --> 00:27:12.409
uh,

00:27:12.409 --> 00:27:13.129
she, in a

00:27:13.129 --> 00:27:13.879
college class,

00:27:13.879 --> 00:27:14.269
she would

00:27:14.269 --> 00:27:14.569
give

00:27:14.569 --> 00:27:15.679
the, the students

00:27:15.859 --> 00:27:16.189
first

00:27:16.189 --> 00:27:16.279
day

00:27:16.279 --> 00:27:16.789
of class,

00:27:17.029 --> 00:27:17.179
a

00:27:17.179 --> 00:27:17.599
fourth

00:27:17.599 --> 00:27:18.049
to sixth

00:27:18.049 --> 00:27:18.769
grade text

00:27:19.129 --> 00:27:19.429
just

00:27:19.429 --> 00:27:20.209
to see where they were.

00:27:20.869 --> 00:27:21.199
And she

00:27:21.199 --> 00:27:21.889
said that

00:27:21.889 --> 00:27:22.219
over the

00:27:22.219 --> 00:27:22.459
course

00:27:22.459 --> 00:27:22.519
of

00:27:22.519 --> 00:27:23.059
the last 10

00:27:23.059 --> 00:27:23.509
years,

00:27:23.719 --> 00:27:24.109
there's been a

00:27:24.109 --> 00:27:25.189
steady decline.

00:27:25.819 --> 00:27:26.149
And their

00:27:26.149 --> 00:27:26.449
ability

00:27:26.449 --> 00:27:28.189
to read college students' ability to read

00:27:28.339 --> 00:27:28.849
fourth

00:27:28.849 --> 00:27:30.589
to sixth grade text because

00:27:30.589 --> 00:27:30.679
they're

00:27:30.679 --> 00:27:31.069
very good

00:27:31.069 --> 00:27:31.519
at skimming

00:27:31.519 --> 00:27:32.179
and scanning.

00:27:32.749 --> 00:27:32.899
They're

00:27:32.899 --> 00:27:33.259
not as

00:27:33.259 --> 00:27:33.679
good as

00:27:33.829 --> 00:27:34.639
that linear

00:27:34.639 --> 00:27:35.239
reading

00:27:35.239 --> 00:27:35.509
and that

00:27:35.509 --> 00:27:36.199
internalizing of

00:27:37.429 --> 00:27:37.849
it, I mean,

00:27:37.849 --> 00:27:39.889
so it's, it's numbers, it's numerical, you know,

00:27:39.889 --> 00:27:40.429
Johann Hari

00:27:40.429 --> 00:27:41.119
talks about that,

00:27:41.419 --> 00:27:41.719
but we

00:27:41.719 --> 00:27:42.409
see it every day

00:27:42.409 --> 00:27:42.499
and

00:27:42.499 --> 00:27:42.859
we see

00:27:42.859 --> 00:27:43.219
it with,

00:27:43.219 --> 00:27:44.059
you know, like, like

00:27:44.089 --> 00:27:44.539
Kathy

00:27:44.539 --> 00:27:45.134
did in the

00:27:46.414 --> 00:27:46.534
Gene Tavernetti: you

00:27:46.534 --> 00:27:46.654
know.

00:27:46.654 --> 00:27:46.744
And

00:27:46.744 --> 00:27:48.724
I think also some of the, some

00:27:48.724 --> 00:27:48.814
of

00:27:48.814 --> 00:27:51.604
the interventions for students, older students who aren't,

00:27:52.144 --> 00:27:52.444
uh,

00:27:52.444 --> 00:27:52.774
reading

00:27:52.774 --> 00:27:56.014
well are based on, you know,

00:27:56.014 --> 00:27:56.524
having this

00:27:56.524 --> 00:27:56.824
book

00:27:56.824 --> 00:27:57.154
in front

00:27:57.154 --> 00:27:57.454
of them.

00:27:57.904 --> 00:28:05.134
Be learning how to annotate, learning how to ask questions, learning how to, uh, uh, read for prosody.

00:28:05.134 --> 00:28:05.434
I mean,

00:28:05.464 --> 00:28:06.124
you know, all of

00:28:06.124 --> 00:28:06.334
these

00:28:06.334 --> 00:28:06.784
things.

00:28:07.174 --> 00:28:07.504
Can't

00:28:07.504 --> 00:28:07.624
do

00:28:07.624 --> 00:28:07.864
it with

00:28:07.864 --> 00:28:08.344
a screen.

00:28:08.734 --> 00:28:09.094
You just,

00:28:09.094 --> 00:28:09.244
you

00:28:09.244 --> 00:28:09.994
just can't.

00:28:10.354 --> 00:28:12.094
Uh, big, a big push now

00:28:12.094 --> 00:28:12.484
is to get

00:28:12.484 --> 00:28:15.064
novels back into, into, secondary

00:28:15.064 --> 00:28:15.754
classroom or in all

00:28:15.814 --> 00:28:16.474
classrooms.

00:28:16.564 --> 00:28:17.494
And again, that

00:28:17.494 --> 00:28:17.764
has

00:28:17.764 --> 00:28:19.864
to be, you gotta be holding,

00:28:19.864 --> 00:28:20.614
you gotta be holding

00:28:20.614 --> 00:28:22.594
that paper and that paper book

00:28:22.804 --> 00:28:22.924
to

00:28:22.924 --> 00:28:23.704
be able to do it.

00:28:24.094 --> 00:28:24.634
So

00:28:24.664 --> 00:28:26.224
I, I think there are just some

00:28:26.224 --> 00:28:27.484
things that screens

00:28:27.514 --> 00:28:27.724
you

00:28:27.724 --> 00:28:28.024
can't

00:28:28.024 --> 00:28:28.354
do

00:28:28.966 --> 00:28:29.566
we just have to

00:28:29.566 --> 00:28:30.226
fess up to that.

00:28:30.859 --> 00:28:31.549
Frank: There's a

00:28:31.729 --> 00:28:33.169
um, uh,

00:28:33.199 --> 00:28:33.709
Barbara King

00:28:33.709 --> 00:28:35.139
Solver's book, the Bean Trees,

00:28:36.529 --> 00:28:36.739
came

00:28:36.739 --> 00:28:40.579
out like in 88 or so, 89, and it's like, it's been passed on in my family.

00:28:40.579 --> 00:28:41.209
Every, everybody's

00:28:41.209 --> 00:28:41.359
read

00:28:41.359 --> 00:28:41.959
it 'cause I have to read it

00:28:41.959 --> 00:28:42.079
in

00:28:42.079 --> 00:28:42.379
school

00:28:42.379 --> 00:28:43.519
' cause she's from Tucson.

00:28:43.519 --> 00:28:44.119
And I went to U of

00:28:44.119 --> 00:28:44.269
A

00:28:44.779 --> 00:28:46.459
and then my son had to read it.

00:28:46.459 --> 00:28:46.909
My daughter, I had

00:28:46.909 --> 00:28:46.999
to

00:28:46.999 --> 00:28:47.209
read it.

00:28:47.209 --> 00:28:47.479
Now my

00:28:47.479 --> 00:28:48.139
youngest

00:28:48.199 --> 00:28:49.609
is reading it and I came,

00:28:49.789 --> 00:28:49.999
came

00:28:49.999 --> 00:28:50.179
into

00:28:50.179 --> 00:28:50.239
a

00:28:50.239 --> 00:28:50.449
room

00:28:50.449 --> 00:28:51.199
last week

00:28:51.619 --> 00:28:52.069
and she was

00:28:52.069 --> 00:28:52.879
listening to

00:28:52.879 --> 00:28:53.029
a,

00:28:53.209 --> 00:28:53.719
something

00:28:53.719 --> 00:28:54.289
being read.

00:28:55.579 --> 00:28:55.849
And then I

00:28:55.849 --> 00:28:56.299
looked at her

00:28:56.299 --> 00:28:57.079
and she's got the book

00:28:57.079 --> 00:28:57.199
in

00:28:57.199 --> 00:28:57.289
her

00:28:57.289 --> 00:28:57.529
hand.

00:28:57.559 --> 00:28:57.829
It's the

00:28:57.829 --> 00:28:58.399
bean Trees.

00:28:59.029 --> 00:28:59.719
Um, and

00:28:59.719 --> 00:29:00.109
I said,

00:29:00.439 --> 00:29:00.979
what, what are

00:29:00.979 --> 00:29:01.069
you

00:29:01.069 --> 00:29:01.309
doing

00:29:01.309 --> 00:29:01.549
there?

00:29:01.849 --> 00:29:02.479
And she said, I'm

00:29:02.479 --> 00:29:03.019
I'm reading a

00:29:03.019 --> 00:29:03.319
book.

00:29:03.319 --> 00:29:03.409
And

00:29:03.409 --> 00:29:03.619
I said,

00:29:03.619 --> 00:29:04.159
no, you're not

00:29:04.159 --> 00:29:04.579
reading.

00:29:04.609 --> 00:29:05.209
YouTube

00:29:05.209 --> 00:29:05.749
is reading.

00:29:06.229 --> 00:29:06.619
And she

00:29:06.619 --> 00:29:06.769
said,

00:29:06.769 --> 00:29:06.979
well,

00:29:06.979 --> 00:29:07.069
I'm

00:29:07.069 --> 00:29:08.029
following along.

00:29:08.569 --> 00:29:08.779
And she's

00:29:08.779 --> 00:29:08.869
like,

00:29:08.869 --> 00:29:09.319
but look,

00:29:09.469 --> 00:29:10.279
I've annotated

00:29:10.279 --> 00:29:10.519
it.

00:29:10.879 --> 00:29:11.629
So she

00:29:11.629 --> 00:29:12.499
understood

00:29:12.499 --> 00:29:13.099
that really

00:29:13.099 --> 00:29:13.339
she

00:29:13.339 --> 00:29:14.359
had to have some sort

00:29:14.359 --> 00:29:14.449
of

00:29:14.479 --> 00:29:14.899
tactile

00:29:14.929 --> 00:29:15.409
connection

00:29:15.439 --> 00:29:15.769
to it.

00:29:16.699 --> 00:29:19.039
But I told her, you know, you need to actually

00:29:19.039 --> 00:29:19.669
be doing the

00:29:19.669 --> 00:29:20.209
effort.

00:29:20.614 --> 00:29:21.094
Of

00:29:21.454 --> 00:29:21.844
having

00:29:21.844 --> 00:29:22.654
your brain make

00:29:22.654 --> 00:29:22.924
those,

00:29:22.924 --> 00:29:23.164
make

00:29:23.164 --> 00:29:23.314
that

00:29:23.314 --> 00:29:23.734
decoding,

00:29:23.734 --> 00:29:24.029
and then,

00:29:24.129 --> 00:29:24.349
and

00:29:24.354 --> 00:29:24.964
then turn that into

00:29:24.964 --> 00:29:25.684
comprehension.

00:29:25.714 --> 00:29:26.554
because otherwise

00:29:26.968 --> 00:29:27.328
it's not

00:29:27.328 --> 00:29:27.418
the

00:29:27.418 --> 00:29:27.658
same

00:29:27.658 --> 00:29:28.078
level,

00:29:28.108 --> 00:29:29.518
not the same level of comprehension.

00:29:29.518 --> 00:29:29.848
So,

00:29:30.114 --> 00:29:30.414
even

00:29:30.414 --> 00:29:30.654
kids

00:29:30.654 --> 00:29:31.044
who are like,

00:29:31.254 --> 00:29:32.364
you know, pretty bright

00:29:32.364 --> 00:29:32.544
and

00:29:32.544 --> 00:29:32.844
doing

00:29:32.844 --> 00:29:33.474
the work,

00:29:33.504 --> 00:29:33.774
even

00:29:33.774 --> 00:29:33.864
the

00:29:33.864 --> 00:29:34.404
tactile

00:29:34.404 --> 00:29:34.794
work of

00:29:34.794 --> 00:29:34.974
it

00:29:35.424 --> 00:29:35.724
will

00:29:35.724 --> 00:29:36.004
fall, fall

00:29:36.004 --> 00:29:36.174
into

00:29:36.174 --> 00:29:36.954
those traps

00:29:37.014 --> 00:29:37.464
of

00:29:37.854 --> 00:29:38.154
what's

00:29:38.154 --> 00:29:38.244
the

00:29:38.244 --> 00:29:38.964
easiest way

00:29:38.964 --> 00:29:40.367
to do like Gene

00:29:40.367 --> 00:29:40.937
was saying,

00:29:41.477 --> 00:29:41.777
the,

00:29:41.777 --> 00:29:41.897
the

00:29:41.897 --> 00:29:42.557
digital

00:29:42.707 --> 00:29:43.157
companies

00:29:43.157 --> 00:29:43.937
will say, here,

00:29:43.937 --> 00:29:44.297
we'll help

00:29:44.297 --> 00:29:44.417
you

00:29:44.417 --> 00:29:44.537
do

00:29:44.537 --> 00:29:44.627
it.

00:29:45.317 --> 00:29:45.587
So

00:29:45.587 --> 00:29:45.767
like

00:29:45.767 --> 00:29:46.457
in our programs

00:29:46.457 --> 00:29:46.697
after

00:29:46.697 --> 00:29:46.877
school,

00:29:46.877 --> 00:29:47.357
we've told

00:29:47.357 --> 00:29:47.507
them,

00:29:47.957 --> 00:29:48.107
we

00:29:48.107 --> 00:29:48.227
don't

00:29:48.227 --> 00:29:48.497
want

00:29:48.497 --> 00:29:49.187
you reading

00:29:49.637 --> 00:29:50.507
on, you

00:29:50.507 --> 00:29:50.957
know, on

00:29:50.957 --> 00:29:51.377
the screen

00:29:51.377 --> 00:29:51.707
anymore.

00:29:52.157 --> 00:29:52.487
Take the

00:29:52.487 --> 00:29:52.697
kids

00:29:52.697 --> 00:29:53.087
outside,

00:29:53.087 --> 00:29:53.597
sit under a

00:29:53.597 --> 00:29:54.107
tree and read

00:29:54.107 --> 00:29:54.362
a book

00:29:55.007 --> 00:29:55.187
for

00:29:55.187 --> 00:29:55.517
the same

00:29:55.517 --> 00:29:55.817
reason.

00:29:55.817 --> 00:29:55.997
They

00:29:55.997 --> 00:29:56.207
need

00:29:56.207 --> 00:29:56.297
to

00:29:56.297 --> 00:29:56.987
hear the

00:29:56.987 --> 00:29:57.587
modeling and

00:29:57.587 --> 00:29:59.297
they need to, they need to make that connection

00:29:59.297 --> 00:29:59.687
in a way

00:29:59.687 --> 00:30:00.707
that we

00:30:00.707 --> 00:30:00.917
walk

00:30:00.917 --> 00:30:01.067
into

00:30:01.067 --> 00:30:01.487
kindergarten

00:30:01.487 --> 00:30:02.327
classroom sometimes

00:30:02.417 --> 00:30:03.047
and

00:30:03.047 --> 00:30:03.257
kids

00:30:03.257 --> 00:30:03.557
dunno how to

00:30:03.557 --> 00:30:04.307
turn a page

00:30:04.607 --> 00:30:04.697
' cause

00:30:04.697 --> 00:30:04.817
they're

00:30:04.817 --> 00:30:05.777
so used to just swiping,

00:30:06.077 --> 00:30:07.037
you know, On the iPad.

00:30:07.157 --> 00:30:07.517
So there's

00:30:07.517 --> 00:30:09.017
something being lost there for sure.

00:30:10.277 --> 00:30:13.397
Bart: Why are lower achieving students seeing the steepest declines?

00:30:14.342 --> 00:30:14.522
Gene Tavernetti: It

00:30:14.522 --> 00:30:15.302
gets back

00:30:15.302 --> 00:30:15.872
to,

00:30:15.932 --> 00:30:16.382
um,

00:30:17.042 --> 00:30:18.452
uh, instruction.

00:30:18.452 --> 00:30:18.752
I mean,

00:30:18.752 --> 00:30:18.842
it,

00:30:18.842 --> 00:30:19.532
it's hard

00:30:19.982 --> 00:30:20.702
not to

00:30:20.702 --> 00:30:22.652
leave instruction as, as the most

00:30:22.652 --> 00:30:23.582
important variable,

00:30:23.612 --> 00:30:25.712
which, which I think research, again,

00:30:25.712 --> 00:30:26.252
for the past

00:30:26.312 --> 00:30:27.332
50, 60 years.

00:30:27.332 --> 00:30:30.091
That's one of the, that's one of the, the primary, variables.

00:30:30.661 --> 00:30:31.261
And,

00:30:31.321 --> 00:30:31.531
and

00:30:31.531 --> 00:30:32.311
to be honest,

00:30:33.541 --> 00:30:33.871
it's

00:30:34.351 --> 00:30:35.281
how to teach

00:30:35.701 --> 00:30:35.881
is

00:30:35.881 --> 00:30:36.211
not

00:30:36.571 --> 00:30:36.991
taught

00:30:37.021 --> 00:30:37.501
in

00:30:37.783 --> 00:30:38.383
programs

00:30:38.383 --> 00:30:38.953
and teacher prep

00:30:38.953 --> 00:30:39.523
programs.

00:30:39.853 --> 00:30:40.903
In fact, again,

00:30:40.903 --> 00:30:41.173
during

00:30:41.173 --> 00:30:42.868
CO. You

00:30:42.868 --> 00:30:44.428
know, we don't want to blame

00:30:44.428 --> 00:30:45.358
COVID for everything,

00:30:45.358 --> 00:30:47.218
but they can be blamed for a few things.

00:30:47.218 --> 00:30:47.278
I

00:30:47.278 --> 00:30:47.728
mean, there were

00:30:47.728 --> 00:30:48.208
teachers who

00:30:48.208 --> 00:30:49.438
got their credential never

00:30:49.438 --> 00:30:49.738
having

00:30:49.738 --> 00:30:50.278
set foot in

00:30:50.278 --> 00:30:50.878
a classroom.

00:30:51.264 --> 00:30:56.124
And so, um, the, the programs, they don't train

00:30:56.334 --> 00:30:56.934
teachers.

00:30:57.325 --> 00:30:57.535
but

00:30:57.535 --> 00:30:58.495
they educate

00:30:58.585 --> 00:30:59.065
teachers

00:30:59.065 --> 00:31:00.025
about things.

00:31:00.295 --> 00:31:01.735
And so they don't, they don't learn how

00:31:01.735 --> 00:31:02.605
to teach a lesson,

00:31:02.605 --> 00:31:02.785
but

00:31:02.785 --> 00:31:03.355
they read

00:31:03.355 --> 00:31:03.865
about

00:31:03.925 --> 00:31:04.435
different

00:31:04.435 --> 00:31:05.095
ways to

00:31:05.095 --> 00:31:05.965
teach lessons.

00:31:06.355 --> 00:31:08.155
And so I think there's just a,

00:31:08.155 --> 00:31:08.275
a

00:31:08.275 --> 00:31:08.665
dearth

00:31:08.695 --> 00:31:08.995
of,

00:31:09.025 --> 00:31:09.415
uh,

00:31:10.135 --> 00:31:10.315
of

00:31:10.315 --> 00:31:11.125
education

00:31:11.125 --> 00:31:11.425
for,

00:31:11.425 --> 00:31:11.635
in

00:31:11.635 --> 00:31:12.355
pre-service.

00:31:13.015 --> 00:31:13.525
Frank: I think

00:31:13.525 --> 00:31:14.365
also the, I mean

00:31:14.395 --> 00:31:14.635
to

00:31:14.815 --> 00:31:15.715
to your question

00:31:15.715 --> 00:31:15.925
about

00:31:15.925 --> 00:31:16.345
why the

00:31:16.345 --> 00:31:17.845
kids who were struggling the

00:31:17.845 --> 00:31:18.865
most are struggling more.

00:31:19.291 --> 00:31:19.501
we

00:31:19.501 --> 00:31:19.981
dedicate

00:31:19.981 --> 00:31:20.851
the book to kids who

00:31:20.851 --> 00:31:21.541
need to be taught.

00:31:21.811 --> 00:31:21.931
You

00:31:21.931 --> 00:31:22.021
know,

00:31:22.021 --> 00:31:23.101
there are some children who,

00:31:23.373 --> 00:31:23.553
who

00:31:23.553 --> 00:31:23.793
can

00:31:24.183 --> 00:31:24.453
go to the

00:31:24.453 --> 00:31:24.933
library on

00:31:24.933 --> 00:31:25.023
their

00:31:25.023 --> 00:31:25.233
own

00:31:25.473 --> 00:31:26.133
and they're fine.

00:31:26.133 --> 00:31:26.223
And

00:31:26.223 --> 00:31:26.373
we

00:31:26.373 --> 00:31:26.553
see

00:31:26.553 --> 00:31:26.823
it now

00:31:26.823 --> 00:31:26.973
when we

00:31:26.973 --> 00:31:27.153
walk

00:31:27.153 --> 00:31:27.303
into

00:31:27.303 --> 00:31:27.693
the classrooms.

00:31:27.693 --> 00:31:28.353
like yesterday

00:31:28.953 --> 00:31:29.343
I was

00:31:29.613 --> 00:31:29.883
telling

00:31:29.883 --> 00:31:30.333
the administrators

00:31:30.333 --> 00:31:30.723
I was with,

00:31:30.723 --> 00:31:30.993
like,

00:31:31.323 --> 00:31:31.443
you

00:31:31.443 --> 00:31:31.653
can

00:31:31.653 --> 00:31:32.043
tell that the

00:31:32.043 --> 00:31:32.643
screens have

00:31:32.643 --> 00:31:33.093
made, have

00:31:33.093 --> 00:31:33.333
made

00:31:33.333 --> 00:31:33.423
the

00:31:33.423 --> 00:31:34.623
self-directed kids

00:31:35.553 --> 00:31:36.033
continue

00:31:36.033 --> 00:31:36.153
to

00:31:36.153 --> 00:31:36.303
be

00:31:36.303 --> 00:31:36.663
active

00:31:36.663 --> 00:31:37.353
learners and

00:31:37.353 --> 00:31:37.593
those

00:31:37.593 --> 00:31:37.683
who

00:31:37.683 --> 00:31:38.913
wanna opt out cannot opt

00:31:38.913 --> 00:31:39.063
out.

00:31:39.618 --> 00:31:40.338
It's much harder

00:31:40.338 --> 00:31:40.398
to

00:31:40.398 --> 00:31:40.548
do

00:31:40.548 --> 00:31:40.758
that

00:31:40.758 --> 00:31:40.878
when

00:31:40.878 --> 00:31:40.998
there's

00:31:40.998 --> 00:31:41.748
that interaction

00:31:41.748 --> 00:31:42.018
with the

00:31:42.018 --> 00:31:42.438
teacher,

00:31:43.068 --> 00:31:43.428
teachers

00:31:43.428 --> 00:31:44.208
modeling, doing

00:31:44.208 --> 00:31:45.198
guided practice,

00:31:45.261 --> 00:31:45.591
and

00:31:45.621 --> 00:31:46.011
making

00:31:46.011 --> 00:31:46.941
the kids accountable

00:31:46.971 --> 00:31:47.931
moment to moment.

00:31:48.261 --> 00:31:48.471
I think

00:31:48.531 --> 00:31:48.951
that's

00:31:48.951 --> 00:31:49.911
fallen off.

00:31:50.001 --> 00:31:50.391
You know,

00:31:50.391 --> 00:31:50.571
And I

00:31:50.571 --> 00:31:50.721
think

00:31:50.721 --> 00:31:50.961
because

00:31:50.961 --> 00:31:51.051
that

00:31:51.051 --> 00:31:51.501
accountability

00:31:51.501 --> 00:31:52.521
has fallen off,

00:31:52.731 --> 00:31:53.691
that relationship

00:31:53.691 --> 00:31:54.531
has fallen off

00:31:54.861 --> 00:31:55.221
between

00:31:55.221 --> 00:31:55.821
the teacher

00:31:55.821 --> 00:31:56.451
and the, and

00:31:56.451 --> 00:31:57.141
the students.

00:31:57.531 --> 00:31:58.011
I think that

00:31:58.011 --> 00:31:58.881
that's been a

00:31:58.881 --> 00:31:59.421
big piece

00:31:59.421 --> 00:31:59.661
of it.

00:32:00.111 --> 00:32:00.801
But going back,

00:32:00.801 --> 00:32:00.951
even

00:32:00.951 --> 00:32:01.101
like

00:32:01.101 --> 00:32:01.971
Gino was talking about

00:32:02.361 --> 00:32:02.511
the

00:32:02.511 --> 00:32:03.711
1970s and eighties,

00:32:04.101 --> 00:32:04.941
Ruby Payne,

00:32:04.971 --> 00:32:05.421
uh,

00:32:05.691 --> 00:32:07.281
framework, for Understanding Poverty,

00:32:07.521 --> 00:32:07.611
if

00:32:07.611 --> 00:32:08.181
you remember that

00:32:08.181 --> 00:32:08.811
book, uh,

00:32:08.841 --> 00:32:09.681
from, I think it was

00:32:09.681 --> 00:32:10.281
the late eighties,

00:32:10.581 --> 00:32:11.211
talked about

00:32:11.211 --> 00:32:11.571
how

00:32:12.441 --> 00:32:13.101
the single most

00:32:13.101 --> 00:32:13.401
important

00:32:13.401 --> 00:32:13.521
thing

00:32:13.521 --> 00:32:13.851
we do as

00:32:13.851 --> 00:32:14.061
far

00:32:14.061 --> 00:32:15.231
as instruction

00:32:15.561 --> 00:32:16.431
is the modeling

00:32:17.511 --> 00:32:17.841
Because

00:32:17.841 --> 00:32:18.711
the modeling is where you

00:32:18.711 --> 00:32:19.911
demystify the learner.

00:32:20.061 --> 00:32:20.121
I

00:32:20.121 --> 00:32:20.241
mean,

00:32:20.241 --> 00:32:20.601
I'm sorry, the

00:32:20.601 --> 00:32:20.901
learning.

00:32:21.291 --> 00:32:21.681
It, it

00:32:21.681 --> 00:32:22.131
makes it,

00:32:22.131 --> 00:32:22.581
it makes

00:32:22.581 --> 00:32:22.701
it

00:32:23.121 --> 00:32:23.451
quit

00:32:23.451 --> 00:32:25.101
being magic and

00:32:25.101 --> 00:32:25.191
it

00:32:25.191 --> 00:32:25.941
becomes, oh, I can

00:32:25.941 --> 00:32:26.571
do that too.

00:32:27.081 --> 00:32:27.741
And that

00:32:27.891 --> 00:32:28.191
with the

00:32:28.191 --> 00:32:28.581
modeling

00:32:28.581 --> 00:32:28.971
falling

00:32:28.971 --> 00:32:29.361
off,

00:32:29.391 --> 00:32:29.691
that

00:32:29.691 --> 00:32:30.651
demystification

00:32:30.651 --> 00:32:31.281
has fallen off.

00:32:31.281 --> 00:32:31.491
And I

00:32:31.491 --> 00:32:31.671
think

00:32:31.671 --> 00:32:31.761
you

00:32:31.761 --> 00:32:31.941
see

00:32:31.941 --> 00:32:32.241
a lot

00:32:32.241 --> 00:32:32.931
of more kids

00:32:33.201 --> 00:32:33.501
having

00:32:33.501 --> 00:32:33.681
this

00:32:33.681 --> 00:32:34.911
learned helplessness

00:32:35.331 --> 00:32:35.811
because

00:32:36.350 --> 00:32:36.560
they're

00:32:36.560 --> 00:32:37.550
not getting that anymore.

00:32:37.580 --> 00:32:37.700
So

00:32:37.700 --> 00:32:37.790
I

00:32:37.790 --> 00:32:37.940
think

00:32:37.940 --> 00:32:38.120
that's

00:32:38.120 --> 00:32:39.290
why we're seeing the steep declines.

00:32:39.590 --> 00:32:39.770
And

00:32:39.770 --> 00:32:40.190
again,

00:32:40.220 --> 00:32:40.760
the numbers

00:32:40.760 --> 00:32:41.090
show

00:32:41.090 --> 00:32:41.240
it.

00:32:41.750 --> 00:32:41.990
Uh,

00:32:41.990 --> 00:32:42.110
we

00:32:42.110 --> 00:32:42.590
talk about

00:32:42.590 --> 00:32:43.130
this in, in

00:32:43.190 --> 00:32:43.610
chapter

00:32:43.610 --> 00:32:44.090
one, the Rip

00:32:44.090 --> 00:32:44.930
Van Winkle piece,

00:32:45.380 --> 00:32:45.860
that instead

00:32:45.860 --> 00:32:45.920
of

00:32:45.920 --> 00:32:46.250
coming from

00:32:46.250 --> 00:32:46.880
the past,

00:32:47.210 --> 00:32:47.480
he had

00:32:47.480 --> 00:32:47.840
come from

00:32:47.840 --> 00:32:48.410
the future.

00:32:49.100 --> 00:32:50.360
He had come from 2034

00:32:50.360 --> 00:32:50.480
and

00:32:50.480 --> 00:32:50.870
told

00:32:50.870 --> 00:32:51.560
educators

00:32:51.560 --> 00:32:52.460
in 2014,

00:32:52.790 --> 00:32:52.880
Hey

00:32:52.880 --> 00:32:53.480
guys, I've been to

00:32:53.480 --> 00:32:53.990
the future

00:32:54.590 --> 00:32:54.770
and

00:32:54.770 --> 00:32:55.640
you spent about

00:32:55.640 --> 00:32:56.270
$40

00:32:56.270 --> 00:32:56.900
billion

00:32:56.995 --> 00:32:57.275
a year,

00:32:58.670 --> 00:32:59.150
um,

00:32:59.210 --> 00:32:59.510
to

00:32:59.690 --> 00:32:59.900
get

00:32:59.900 --> 00:33:00.170
more

00:33:00.170 --> 00:33:00.290
and

00:33:00.290 --> 00:33:00.830
more digital

00:33:00.830 --> 00:33:01.610
into classrooms.

00:33:01.880 --> 00:33:02.060
And

00:33:02.060 --> 00:33:02.390
what you're

00:33:02.390 --> 00:33:02.630
gonna

00:33:02.630 --> 00:33:02.900
see

00:33:02.900 --> 00:33:02.960
is

00:33:02.960 --> 00:33:03.410
that the high

00:33:03.410 --> 00:33:04.220
achieving kids,

00:33:04.580 --> 00:33:05.210
they'll do about

00:33:05.210 --> 00:33:05.600
the same,

00:33:06.050 --> 00:33:06.350
but your

00:33:06.350 --> 00:33:06.530
low

00:33:06.530 --> 00:33:06.920
achieving

00:33:06.920 --> 00:33:07.310
kids,

00:33:07.580 --> 00:33:08.540
they're gonna tank.

00:33:09.020 --> 00:33:09.500
Like, who would

00:33:09.500 --> 00:33:10.010
buy that?

00:33:10.370 --> 00:33:10.820
Nobody

00:33:10.820 --> 00:33:11.210
would buy

00:33:11.210 --> 00:33:11.480
that if

00:33:11.480 --> 00:33:12.080
we knew it

00:33:12.590 --> 00:33:12.740
in

00:33:12.740 --> 00:33:13.123
20

00:33:13.123 --> 00:33:13.505
14,

00:33:13.505 --> 00:33:13.888
20

00:33:13.888 --> 00:33:14.270
15.

00:33:14.660 --> 00:33:14.870
We're

00:33:14.870 --> 00:33:15.560
realizing it

00:33:15.560 --> 00:33:15.830
now

00:33:15.830 --> 00:33:16.363
in 20

00:33:16.363 --> 00:33:16.775
25,

00:33:16.775 --> 00:33:17.600
20 26.

00:33:17.935 --> 00:33:18.155
But

00:33:18.235 --> 00:33:18.515
I think

00:33:18.560 --> 00:33:20.390
that, um, it's

00:33:20.390 --> 00:33:21.170
gonna continue.

00:33:21.200 --> 00:33:21.620
Earlier

00:33:21.620 --> 00:33:21.800
when

00:33:21.800 --> 00:33:22.100
you asked

00:33:22.100 --> 00:33:22.940
the question about

00:33:23.240 --> 00:33:23.450
what

00:33:23.450 --> 00:33:23.990
scares you the

00:33:23.990 --> 00:33:24.260
most,

00:33:24.260 --> 00:33:25.970
I think it's this bifurcation that's

00:33:26.930 --> 00:33:27.290
There was

00:33:27.290 --> 00:33:27.950
an article

00:33:27.980 --> 00:33:28.220
in

00:33:28.220 --> 00:33:28.910
New York Times

00:33:28.910 --> 00:33:29.780
regarding reading

00:33:29.780 --> 00:33:30.160
habits.

00:33:31.520 --> 00:33:31.940
People who

00:33:31.940 --> 00:33:32.600
are reading

00:33:33.350 --> 00:33:33.920
still

00:33:33.980 --> 00:33:34.550
are reading more.

00:33:35.705 --> 00:33:36.155
But the

00:33:36.155 --> 00:33:36.905
number of people who

00:33:36.905 --> 00:33:37.385
didn't read

00:33:37.385 --> 00:33:37.805
a single

00:33:37.805 --> 00:33:38.135
book

00:33:38.165 --> 00:33:38.345
in

00:33:38.345 --> 00:33:38.435
the

00:33:38.435 --> 00:33:39.065
US in

00:33:39.065 --> 00:33:39.725
20, in,

00:33:40.745 --> 00:33:41.795
20, 24, I think it

00:33:41.795 --> 00:33:42.125
was,

00:33:42.275 --> 00:33:42.725
was over

00:33:42.725 --> 00:33:43.385
50%.

00:33:43.925 --> 00:33:44.015
You

00:33:44.015 --> 00:33:44.255
know,

00:33:44.465 --> 00:33:44.615
so

00:33:44.615 --> 00:33:44.915
those of

00:33:44.915 --> 00:33:45.515
us that read,

00:33:45.995 --> 00:33:46.265
read

00:33:46.265 --> 00:33:46.655
more.

00:33:46.775 --> 00:33:46.895
' cause

00:33:46.895 --> 00:33:47.255
there's more

00:33:47.255 --> 00:33:47.315
to

00:33:47.315 --> 00:33:47.615
read.

00:33:48.185 --> 00:33:48.455
Those of

00:33:48.455 --> 00:33:48.575
us

00:33:48.575 --> 00:33:48.905
that don't

00:33:48.905 --> 00:33:49.085
read

00:33:49.085 --> 00:33:49.925
have chosen not to,

00:33:49.925 --> 00:33:51.635
there's this big bifurcation happening

00:33:51.905 --> 00:33:52.085
that's

00:33:52.085 --> 00:33:52.475
gonna

00:33:53.195 --> 00:33:53.525
open

00:33:53.525 --> 00:33:53.615
up

00:33:53.615 --> 00:33:54.245
that inequality

00:33:54.245 --> 00:33:54.695
gap even

00:33:54.695 --> 00:33:54.935
more.

00:33:54.935 --> 00:33:55.025
I

00:34:00.462 --> 00:34:05.232
Bart: So thinking about the future then, if this trend continues, what are long-term implications?

00:34:05.865 --> 00:34:06.105
Frank: There's

00:34:06.105 --> 00:34:06.165
a

00:34:06.165 --> 00:34:06.645
good quote

00:34:06.645 --> 00:34:06.855
from

00:34:06.855 --> 00:34:07.065
a

00:34:07.185 --> 00:34:08.085
superintendent.

00:34:08.283 --> 00:34:08.583
in,

00:34:08.733 --> 00:34:09.213
at the end

00:34:09.213 --> 00:34:09.963
of chapter one,

00:34:09.963 --> 00:34:10.143
where we

00:34:10.143 --> 00:34:10.413
talk

00:34:10.413 --> 00:34:10.743
about

00:34:10.743 --> 00:34:11.733
there's alternative

00:34:11.733 --> 00:34:12.963
paths to this path

00:34:12.963 --> 00:34:13.533
that we're on.

00:34:14.133 --> 00:34:14.553
And

00:34:14.553 --> 00:34:15.243
this particular

00:34:15.243 --> 00:34:16.083
superintendent,

00:34:16.083 --> 00:34:16.353
really

00:34:16.353 --> 00:34:17.013
well regarded,

00:34:17.643 --> 00:34:18.933
she, um,

00:34:19.143 --> 00:34:19.653
was

00:34:19.653 --> 00:34:19.983
like

00:34:19.983 --> 00:34:21.933
the, she got the Technology

00:34:21.933 --> 00:34:22.593
Administrator

00:34:22.593 --> 00:34:22.953
award

00:34:22.953 --> 00:34:23.133
of the

00:34:23.133 --> 00:34:23.613
year

00:34:23.973 --> 00:34:24.813
in California

00:34:24.813 --> 00:34:25.503
a few years back.

00:34:25.743 --> 00:34:25.893
So

00:34:25.893 --> 00:34:26.163
she's

00:34:26.163 --> 00:34:26.493
very

00:34:26.493 --> 00:34:27.213
pro tech,

00:34:27.813 --> 00:34:27.963
but

00:34:27.963 --> 00:34:28.173
she

00:34:28.173 --> 00:34:28.533
said,

00:34:28.533 --> 00:34:28.743
if

00:34:28.743 --> 00:34:28.893
this

00:34:28.893 --> 00:34:29.133
trend

00:34:29.133 --> 00:34:29.948
continues,

00:34:30.843 --> 00:34:31.293
we're gonna go

00:34:31.293 --> 00:34:31.833
obsolete.

00:34:32.613 --> 00:34:32.883
And we're

00:34:32.883 --> 00:34:33.483
really worried

00:34:33.483 --> 00:34:33.693
about when

00:34:33.693 --> 00:34:33.753
we

00:34:33.753 --> 00:34:34.203
first started

00:34:34.203 --> 00:34:34.353
having

00:34:34.353 --> 00:34:34.983
these conversations

00:34:34.983 --> 00:34:35.193
two and

00:34:35.193 --> 00:34:35.373
a half

00:34:35.373 --> 00:34:35.613
years

00:34:35.613 --> 00:34:35.823
ago.

00:34:36.198 --> 00:34:36.348
It

00:34:36.348 --> 00:34:36.498
was

00:34:36.498 --> 00:34:37.308
really regarding

00:34:37.728 --> 00:34:38.268
the place of

00:34:38.268 --> 00:34:38.358
the

00:34:38.358 --> 00:34:38.868
mainstream

00:34:38.868 --> 00:34:39.438
school

00:34:39.812 --> 00:34:40.262
and

00:34:40.322 --> 00:34:41.342
mainstream public school

00:34:41.342 --> 00:34:42.092
and where that's

00:34:42.092 --> 00:34:42.452
going.

00:34:42.572 --> 00:34:42.812
And

00:34:42.812 --> 00:34:42.872
I

00:34:42.872 --> 00:34:43.292
think,

00:34:43.682 --> 00:34:43.772
you

00:34:43.772 --> 00:34:43.892
know,

00:34:43.892 --> 00:34:44.372
coming out

00:34:44.372 --> 00:34:44.912
of COVID in

00:34:44.912 --> 00:34:45.632
particular,

00:34:45.917 --> 00:34:46.787
we're looking at

00:34:47.604 --> 00:34:48.114
virtual

00:34:48.114 --> 00:34:50.664
schools, you know, homeschooling,

00:34:50.909 --> 00:34:51.329
alpha

00:34:51.329 --> 00:34:51.929
schools.

00:34:51.929 --> 00:34:52.079
There's

00:34:52.079 --> 00:34:52.259
all

00:34:52.259 --> 00:34:52.829
these schools

00:34:52.829 --> 00:34:52.949
that

00:34:52.949 --> 00:34:53.009
are

00:34:53.009 --> 00:34:53.339
becoming

00:34:53.339 --> 00:34:54.719
alternatives to schools, right?

00:34:55.049 --> 00:34:55.349
We

00:34:55.349 --> 00:34:55.529
feel

00:34:55.529 --> 00:34:55.619
like

00:34:55.619 --> 00:34:55.799
there's

00:34:55.799 --> 00:34:56.819
a really important

00:34:56.819 --> 00:34:58.379
place in, in America

00:34:58.739 --> 00:35:00.329
for the mainstream neighborhood,

00:35:00.329 --> 00:35:02.669
public And

00:35:02.669 --> 00:35:03.149
that's

00:35:03.149 --> 00:35:03.359
what

00:35:03.359 --> 00:35:03.479
I

00:35:03.479 --> 00:35:03.809
see

00:35:03.809 --> 00:35:04.229
as being

00:35:04.229 --> 00:35:04.919
a big concern,

00:35:05.069 --> 00:35:05.309
is

00:35:05.309 --> 00:35:05.609
that the

00:35:05.609 --> 00:35:05.939
more we

00:35:05.969 --> 00:35:06.869
hollow that out,

00:35:07.889 --> 00:35:08.039
the

00:35:08.039 --> 00:35:08.399
more that

00:35:08.399 --> 00:35:09.089
it becomes like,

00:35:09.359 --> 00:35:09.599
well, if

00:35:09.599 --> 00:35:09.719
we're

00:35:09.719 --> 00:35:10.019
gonna go

00:35:10.019 --> 00:35:10.739
to school

00:35:11.759 --> 00:35:11.939
and

00:35:11.939 --> 00:35:12.269
watch

00:35:12.269 --> 00:35:12.959
a screen,

00:35:13.349 --> 00:35:13.499
my

00:35:13.499 --> 00:35:13.799
kid can

00:35:13.799 --> 00:35:14.039
do that

00:35:14.039 --> 00:35:14.129
at

00:35:14.129 --> 00:35:14.429
home.

00:35:14.789 --> 00:35:14.999
Why

00:35:14.999 --> 00:35:15.239
send

00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:15.779
him to school?

00:35:16.139 --> 00:35:16.529
You know,

00:35:16.919 --> 00:35:17.219
we

00:35:17.219 --> 00:35:18.209
continue hollowing

00:35:18.209 --> 00:35:18.719
that out

00:35:19.169 --> 00:35:19.409
till

00:35:19.409 --> 00:35:19.529
at

00:35:19.529 --> 00:35:19.769
some

00:35:19.769 --> 00:35:19.949
point

00:35:19.949 --> 00:35:20.579
we hit a tipping

00:35:20.579 --> 00:35:20.969
point

00:35:21.089 --> 00:35:21.389
that we

00:35:21.389 --> 00:35:21.599
can't

00:35:21.599 --> 00:35:22.169
get back from.

00:35:22.199 --> 00:35:22.499
'cause, you

00:35:22.499 --> 00:35:22.799
know,

00:35:22.919 --> 00:35:23.729
every year

00:35:24.599 --> 00:35:26.189
at, if attendance drops, if enrollment

00:35:26.189 --> 00:35:27.329
drops, your funding drops,

00:35:27.509 --> 00:35:27.959
gets harder

00:35:27.959 --> 00:35:28.499
to fund.

00:35:28.934 --> 00:35:29.504
Therefore it gets,

00:35:29.564 --> 00:35:29.774
it's

00:35:29.774 --> 00:35:29.924
like

00:35:29.924 --> 00:35:30.044
you're

00:35:30.044 --> 00:35:30.374
running

00:35:30.374 --> 00:35:30.614
up a

00:35:30.614 --> 00:35:31.154
hill

00:35:31.514 --> 00:35:32.354
backwards.

00:35:32.774 --> 00:35:32.954
And

00:35:32.954 --> 00:35:33.134
so

00:35:33.134 --> 00:35:33.494
I think

00:35:33.494 --> 00:35:33.674
that

00:35:33.674 --> 00:35:34.244
that's what

00:35:34.604 --> 00:35:35.534
is a really

00:35:36.044 --> 00:35:36.974
big cause for

00:35:36.974 --> 00:35:37.484
concern

00:35:37.784 --> 00:35:38.564
down this path

00:35:38.564 --> 00:35:38.864
that we're

00:35:38.974 --> 00:35:39.089
Anjanette McNeely: on.

00:35:39.749 --> 00:35:40.439
Gene Tavernetti: And it's interesting

00:35:40.439 --> 00:35:41.729
how schools.

00:35:42.749 --> 00:35:42.929
are

00:35:42.929 --> 00:35:43.739
in competition.

00:35:43.739 --> 00:35:45.466
The, you know, our, mainstream

00:35:45.466 --> 00:35:46.096
public schools

00:35:46.096 --> 00:35:46.876
are in competition

00:35:46.881 --> 00:35:47.041
with

00:35:47.041 --> 00:35:47.481
charters.

00:35:47.626 --> 00:35:49.216
And so they are running,

00:35:49.276 --> 00:35:49.426
you

00:35:49.426 --> 00:35:49.726
know, how

00:35:49.726 --> 00:35:49.936
can

00:35:49.936 --> 00:35:50.176
we

00:35:50.176 --> 00:35:50.716
provide

00:35:50.716 --> 00:35:50.836
what

00:35:50.836 --> 00:35:50.956
the

00:35:50.956 --> 00:35:52.036
charter's providing

00:35:52.156 --> 00:35:52.336
and

00:35:52.336 --> 00:35:52.666
what's a

00:35:52.666 --> 00:35:52.996
charter,

00:35:52.996 --> 00:35:53.896
usually providing

00:35:53.926 --> 00:35:54.556
more tech.

00:35:54.946 --> 00:35:55.546
And

00:35:55.546 --> 00:35:55.966
so

00:35:55.966 --> 00:35:56.416
they get

00:35:56.416 --> 00:35:56.986
onto this

00:35:57.016 --> 00:35:57.976
this treadmill

00:35:58.036 --> 00:35:58.426
and they

00:35:58.426 --> 00:35:58.636
don't know

00:35:58.636 --> 00:35:58.756
how

00:35:58.756 --> 00:35:58.846
to

00:35:58.846 --> 00:35:59.056
get

00:35:59.056 --> 00:35:59.386
off.

00:35:59.506 --> 00:35:59.776
And

00:35:59.776 --> 00:35:59.926
as

00:35:59.926 --> 00:36:00.706
an administrator

00:36:00.706 --> 00:36:01.666
it's hard to,

00:36:02.131 --> 00:36:02.311
to

00:36:02.311 --> 00:36:03.211
back away and say,

00:36:03.211 --> 00:36:03.391
well,

00:36:03.391 --> 00:36:03.991
wait a second,

00:36:03.991 --> 00:36:04.411
maybe we're

00:36:04.411 --> 00:36:04.921
not doing the

00:36:04.921 --> 00:36:05.131
right

00:36:05.131 --> 00:36:05.341
thing.

00:36:05.341 --> 00:36:05.731
Maybe

00:36:05.731 --> 00:36:05.851
all

00:36:05.851 --> 00:36:06.631
these things that I was

00:36:06.631 --> 00:36:07.591
cheerleading for,

00:36:08.071 --> 00:36:08.521
uh,

00:36:08.521 --> 00:36:09.631
weren't quite

00:36:09.751 --> 00:36:10.171
the best

00:36:10.171 --> 00:36:11.311
thing to do for kids.

00:36:11.641 --> 00:36:12.211
So,

00:36:12.241 --> 00:36:12.571
so

00:36:12.571 --> 00:36:13.441
everybody has

00:36:13.441 --> 00:36:13.951
some,

00:36:14.041 --> 00:36:14.431
uh,

00:36:14.461 --> 00:36:15.451
readjustment

00:36:16.111 --> 00:36:17.161
administrators,

00:36:17.161 --> 00:36:18.691
parents thinking as

00:36:18.691 --> 00:36:19.261
Frank talked

00:36:19.261 --> 00:36:19.561
about,

00:36:19.561 --> 00:36:21.061
thinking about what happens at home,

00:36:21.331 --> 00:36:22.171
how we,

00:36:22.201 --> 00:36:22.411
how

00:36:22.411 --> 00:36:22.981
we interact

00:36:22.981 --> 00:36:23.101
with

00:36:23.101 --> 00:36:23.701
our children.

00:36:24.167 --> 00:36:24.227
I

00:36:24.227 --> 00:36:25.457
think we just have to, you

00:36:25.457 --> 00:36:25.667
know,

00:36:25.727 --> 00:36:25.937
eat

00:36:25.937 --> 00:36:26.447
a big piece

00:36:26.447 --> 00:36:27.167
of humble pie

00:36:27.167 --> 00:36:27.257
and

00:36:27.257 --> 00:36:27.407
say,

00:36:27.407 --> 00:36:27.527
we

00:36:27.527 --> 00:36:28.337
made a mistake.

00:36:29.822 --> 00:36:30.302
Bart: Yes.

00:36:30.872 --> 00:36:33.692
You share that learning is fundamentally social.

00:36:34.292 --> 00:36:38.642
So how has device heavy instruction changed the social experience of school?

00:36:39.051 --> 00:36:40.066
Gene Tavernetti: it's just taking it away.

00:36:40.096 --> 00:36:42.916
I mean, you walk into a, you walk into a classroom and everybody's

00:36:42.916 --> 00:36:43.066
got

00:36:43.066 --> 00:36:44.776
headphones on and looking at a screen,

00:36:44.806 --> 00:36:45.286
where's

00:36:45.286 --> 00:36:45.826
the interaction?

00:36:46.824 --> 00:36:47.221
And

00:36:47.221 --> 00:36:48.121
so then,

00:36:48.181 --> 00:36:48.811
uh, I'm

00:36:48.811 --> 00:36:48.961
gonna

00:36:48.961 --> 00:36:49.441
go off on

00:36:49.441 --> 00:36:50.161
a tangent here.

00:36:50.221 --> 00:36:51.241
We could go off, you

00:36:51.241 --> 00:36:51.391
know,

00:36:51.391 --> 00:36:51.601
on

00:36:51.601 --> 00:36:52.261
AI

00:36:52.411 --> 00:36:52.801
to where

00:36:52.801 --> 00:36:53.731
now we get

00:36:53.731 --> 00:36:54.481
interaction with

00:36:54.481 --> 00:36:55.021
ai.

00:36:55.291 --> 00:36:55.681
AI

00:36:55.681 --> 00:36:56.041
can be

00:36:56.041 --> 00:36:56.791
our friends,

00:36:57.211 --> 00:36:57.991
which has been

00:36:57.991 --> 00:36:58.441
very

00:36:58.441 --> 00:36:59.041
scary

00:36:59.131 --> 00:36:59.851
for folks.

00:37:00.211 --> 00:37:01.231
So we

00:37:01.231 --> 00:37:02.101
lose skills.

00:37:02.551 --> 00:37:02.731
We

00:37:02.731 --> 00:37:03.061
don't know

00:37:03.061 --> 00:37:03.211
how

00:37:03.211 --> 00:37:03.301
to

00:37:03.301 --> 00:37:04.141
make friends.

00:37:04.351 --> 00:37:06.361
We don't know how to, to interact

00:37:06.391 --> 00:37:07.291
appropriately.

00:37:07.721 --> 00:37:07.991
all

00:37:07.991 --> 00:37:08.081
of

00:37:08.081 --> 00:37:08.291
those

00:37:08.291 --> 00:37:08.711
things

00:37:08.711 --> 00:37:09.641
contribute

00:37:09.881 --> 00:37:10.511
to the

00:37:10.511 --> 00:37:11.291
answer being

00:37:11.291 --> 00:37:11.951
more tech.

00:37:12.436 --> 00:37:12.616
You

00:37:12.616 --> 00:37:12.736
know,

00:37:12.766 --> 00:37:13.156
we'll

00:37:13.156 --> 00:37:13.366
we'll

00:37:13.486 --> 00:37:14.236
we'll give them some

00:37:14.236 --> 00:37:15.616
interaction with the tech.

00:37:15.925 --> 00:37:16.015
Frank: yeah,

00:37:16.015 --> 00:37:16.435
we'll give 'em an

00:37:16.435 --> 00:37:17.005
AI friend.

00:37:17.365 --> 00:37:17.485
You

00:37:17.485 --> 00:37:17.935
know, there's a,

00:37:17.935 --> 00:37:19.375
there's a couple of examples

00:37:19.375 --> 00:37:19.525
that

00:37:19.525 --> 00:37:19.645
are

00:37:19.645 --> 00:37:19.795
in

00:37:19.795 --> 00:37:19.915
the

00:37:19.915 --> 00:37:20.125
book

00:37:20.125 --> 00:37:20.245
and a

00:37:20.245 --> 00:37:20.785
couple that didn't

00:37:20.785 --> 00:37:21.205
make it,

00:37:21.235 --> 00:37:21.445
uh,

00:37:21.445 --> 00:37:21.655
that

00:37:21.655 --> 00:37:21.775
were

00:37:21.775 --> 00:37:22.075
great.

00:37:22.075 --> 00:37:22.645
Interview,

00:37:22.975 --> 00:37:23.755
interview

00:37:23.815 --> 00:37:24.205
quotes

00:37:24.205 --> 00:37:24.955
from teachers

00:37:25.618 --> 00:37:26.668
the teacher, uh, I

00:37:26.818 --> 00:37:27.118
think a

00:37:27.118 --> 00:37:29.248
Spanish teacher Um, the

00:37:29.248 --> 00:37:29.578
kids

00:37:29.578 --> 00:37:30.808
are on their screens

00:37:31.588 --> 00:37:32.398
and, uh,

00:37:32.398 --> 00:37:33.088
she's six

00:37:33.088 --> 00:37:33.688
feet away

00:37:34.648 --> 00:37:34.978
and they

00:37:34.978 --> 00:37:35.128
will

00:37:35.128 --> 00:37:36.538
send her a message

00:37:36.988 --> 00:37:37.528
on

00:37:37.528 --> 00:37:38.428
the, on

00:37:38.428 --> 00:37:40.018
the, device

00:37:40.438 --> 00:37:40.828
instead

00:37:40.828 --> 00:37:41.848
of just raising the hand and

00:37:41.848 --> 00:37:42.148
asking

00:37:42.148 --> 00:37:42.778
the question.

00:37:43.108 --> 00:37:43.228
She

00:37:43.258 --> 00:37:43.438
said,

00:37:43.438 --> 00:37:43.648
Tim,

00:37:43.648 --> 00:37:43.798
I'm

00:37:43.798 --> 00:37:44.188
right here.

00:37:44.188 --> 00:37:44.278
You

00:37:44.278 --> 00:37:44.728
can ask me the

00:37:44.728 --> 00:37:45.208
question.

00:37:45.598 --> 00:37:46.408
Oh, nevermind.

00:37:47.188 --> 00:37:47.938
And they're

00:37:47.938 --> 00:37:48.958
not comfortable

00:37:49.228 --> 00:37:49.558
having

00:37:49.558 --> 00:37:50.638
that interaction, like

00:37:50.638 --> 00:37:50.908
with the

00:37:50.908 --> 00:37:51.268
adults.

00:37:51.268 --> 00:37:51.448
But

00:37:51.808 --> 00:37:51.898
you

00:37:51.898 --> 00:37:52.138
know, like

00:37:52.138 --> 00:37:53.098
Jean said, you walk into the

00:37:53.098 --> 00:37:53.578
classroom and

00:37:53.578 --> 00:37:53.638
you

00:37:53.638 --> 00:37:54.868
can almost measure

00:37:55.138 --> 00:37:55.678
without even

00:37:55.678 --> 00:37:56.248
looking.

00:37:56.818 --> 00:37:57.028
are

00:37:57.028 --> 00:37:57.928
they on screens or not,

00:37:57.928 --> 00:37:58.318
because of how

00:37:58.378 --> 00:37:58.798
quiet.

00:37:58.798 --> 00:37:58.978
it is.

00:37:59.518 --> 00:37:59.728
a

00:37:59.728 --> 00:38:00.928
lot less interaction.

00:38:01.468 --> 00:38:02.428
And Jonathan, he talked

00:38:02.428 --> 00:38:03.418
about as an anxious generation,

00:38:03.418 --> 00:38:03.568
he's a

00:38:03.568 --> 00:38:04.018
professor

00:38:04.018 --> 00:38:04.108
at

00:38:04.108 --> 00:38:04.918
NYU, right?

00:38:05.488 --> 00:38:05.818
Um,

00:38:05.908 --> 00:38:06.268
how

00:38:06.268 --> 00:38:07.528
those last five minutes

00:38:07.528 --> 00:38:08.638
before class started

00:38:08.968 --> 00:38:09.238
would

00:38:09.238 --> 00:38:09.748
be

00:38:10.318 --> 00:38:10.918
the

00:38:10.978 --> 00:38:11.428
most

00:38:11.428 --> 00:38:11.908
bubbly

00:38:11.908 --> 00:38:12.358
time

00:38:12.358 --> 00:38:12.478
in

00:38:12.478 --> 00:38:13.408
his lectures.

00:38:13.738 --> 00:38:15.688
Everybody's talking to the person next to them, what they

00:38:15.688 --> 00:38:15.958
did on

00:38:15.958 --> 00:38:16.018
the

00:38:16.018 --> 00:38:16.948
weekend or whatever,

00:38:16.948 --> 00:38:17.128
or

00:38:17.428 --> 00:38:17.788
whatever

00:38:17.788 --> 00:38:18.418
test is coming

00:38:18.418 --> 00:38:18.658
up.

00:38:19.018 --> 00:38:19.198
And

00:38:19.198 --> 00:38:19.468
now

00:38:19.468 --> 00:38:20.278
it's the quietest

00:38:20.278 --> 00:38:20.548
time.

00:38:21.033 --> 00:38:21.323
It's

00:38:21.328 --> 00:38:21.358
the

00:38:21.358 --> 00:38:21.988
quietest time

00:38:21.988 --> 00:38:22.138
because

00:38:22.138 --> 00:38:22.498
everybody's on

00:38:22.498 --> 00:38:22.588
their

00:38:22.588 --> 00:38:23.038
phones.

00:38:23.578 --> 00:38:23.758
And

00:38:23.758 --> 00:38:23.848
the

00:38:23.848 --> 00:38:24.268
same thing

00:38:24.268 --> 00:38:24.328
I

00:38:24.328 --> 00:38:24.478
think

00:38:24.478 --> 00:38:24.838
happens

00:38:24.838 --> 00:38:24.928
in

00:38:24.928 --> 00:38:25.378
schools

00:38:25.378 --> 00:38:25.498
that

00:38:25.498 --> 00:38:26.578
allow phones.

00:38:26.956 --> 00:38:27.256
what

00:38:27.256 --> 00:38:27.496
used

00:38:27.496 --> 00:38:27.616
to

00:38:27.616 --> 00:38:27.706
be

00:38:27.706 --> 00:38:27.826
the

00:38:27.826 --> 00:38:28.156
most

00:38:28.156 --> 00:38:28.606
bubbly

00:38:28.606 --> 00:38:29.086
time, the

00:38:29.086 --> 00:38:29.476
most,

00:38:29.566 --> 00:38:29.866
you know,

00:38:29.866 --> 00:38:30.046
the

00:38:30.046 --> 00:38:30.376
most

00:38:30.376 --> 00:38:30.976
interactive

00:38:30.976 --> 00:38:31.276
time,

00:38:31.276 --> 00:38:31.456
the

00:38:31.516 --> 00:38:31.936
periods

00:38:31.936 --> 00:38:32.866
right before,

00:38:33.496 --> 00:38:33.766
right

00:38:33.766 --> 00:38:34.306
before

00:38:34.336 --> 00:38:34.456
a

00:38:34.456 --> 00:38:34.816
class

00:38:34.816 --> 00:38:35.206
started,

00:38:35.206 --> 00:38:35.746
or,

00:38:35.746 --> 00:38:36.766
or, uh, maybe the in the

00:38:36.766 --> 00:38:37.516
passing period

00:38:37.876 --> 00:38:38.086
had

00:38:38.086 --> 00:38:38.626
become very

00:38:38.626 --> 00:38:38.956
quiet.

00:38:39.016 --> 00:38:39.346
Everybody's

00:38:39.346 --> 00:38:39.826
walking

00:38:39.826 --> 00:38:40.096
with their

00:38:40.096 --> 00:38:40.786
head down.

00:38:40.951 --> 00:38:41.311
so the

00:38:41.311 --> 00:38:41.581
social

00:38:41.581 --> 00:38:42.451
interaction piece

00:38:42.451 --> 00:38:43.141
that's being lost

00:38:43.141 --> 00:38:43.231
is

00:38:43.231 --> 00:38:43.441
being

00:38:43.441 --> 00:38:43.711
lost

00:38:43.711 --> 00:38:43.831
in

00:38:43.831 --> 00:38:44.671
the classroom during,

00:38:45.271 --> 00:38:45.571
during

00:38:45.571 --> 00:38:46.441
guided practice, during

00:38:46.501 --> 00:38:47.311
closure, during

00:38:47.311 --> 00:38:47.581
checking

00:38:47.581 --> 00:38:47.701
for

00:38:47.701 --> 00:38:48.781
understanding because

00:38:49.171 --> 00:38:50.341
it's being done by the bot.

00:38:50.441 --> 00:38:50.591
and

00:38:50.591 --> 00:38:50.711
it's

00:38:50.711 --> 00:38:50.921
being

00:38:50.921 --> 00:38:51.551
lost outside of

00:38:51.551 --> 00:38:51.611
the

00:38:51.611 --> 00:38:52.151
classroom as

00:38:52.885 --> 00:38:58.315
Bart: Are there any other things that teachers are telling you about student communication, resilience regulation?

00:38:59.026 --> 00:38:59.236
Frank: Yeah.

00:38:59.236 --> 00:38:59.416
I

00:38:59.416 --> 00:38:59.746
never

00:38:59.746 --> 00:39:00.106
had heard

00:39:00.106 --> 00:39:00.496
the term

00:39:00.496 --> 00:39:00.916
dys reg

00:39:01.216 --> 00:39:02.236
dysregulation

00:39:02.236 --> 00:39:02.656
before

00:39:02.656 --> 00:39:02.986
until

00:39:02.986 --> 00:39:03.286
about

00:39:03.286 --> 00:39:03.466
two

00:39:03.466 --> 00:39:04.096
years ago

00:39:04.606 --> 00:39:04.936
about

00:39:04.936 --> 00:39:05.056
the

00:39:05.056 --> 00:39:06.171
ability to, to

00:39:06.316 --> 00:39:06.556
kind

00:39:06.556 --> 00:39:07.006
of center

00:39:07.006 --> 00:39:07.726
themselves and

00:39:08.026 --> 00:39:10.186
find how to, how to

00:39:10.216 --> 00:39:10.726
behave.

00:39:10.726 --> 00:39:11.656
So definitely

00:39:11.656 --> 00:39:12.879
we've heard that.

00:39:13.054 --> 00:39:13.204
I

00:39:13.204 --> 00:39:13.504
think we

00:39:13.504 --> 00:39:13.684
see

00:39:13.684 --> 00:39:13.774
it

00:39:13.774 --> 00:39:13.984
in our

00:39:13.984 --> 00:39:14.524
programs as

00:39:14.524 --> 00:39:16.144
well, that, that, all

00:39:16.144 --> 00:39:16.264
the

00:39:16.264 --> 00:39:16.654
pieces

00:39:16.654 --> 00:39:16.804
you

00:39:16.804 --> 00:39:17.134
asked

00:39:17.134 --> 00:39:18.094
about are happening.

00:39:18.844 --> 00:39:18.964
Gene Tavernetti: Well,

00:39:18.964 --> 00:39:19.114
and I

00:39:19.114 --> 00:39:19.894
think something else

00:39:19.894 --> 00:39:22.504
that, that, we've been doing for, for quite

00:39:22.504 --> 00:39:25.084
a long time, that the technology has exasperated,

00:39:25.706 --> 00:39:25.856
We

00:39:25.856 --> 00:39:25.946
have

00:39:25.946 --> 00:39:26.006
to

00:39:26.006 --> 00:39:26.186
have a

00:39:26.186 --> 00:39:26.696
program

00:39:26.696 --> 00:39:27.296
for everything.

00:39:28.016 --> 00:39:28.136
The

00:39:28.136 --> 00:39:29.576
kids don't communicate.

00:39:29.576 --> 00:39:29.696
They

00:39:29.696 --> 00:39:30.266
don't, oh,

00:39:30.326 --> 00:39:30.836
SEL

00:39:30.986 --> 00:39:31.316
let's have

00:39:31.316 --> 00:39:31.376
a,

00:39:31.406 --> 00:39:31.766
let's have

00:39:31.766 --> 00:39:32.786
a new program.

00:39:33.146 --> 00:39:34.226
And, uh,

00:39:34.586 --> 00:39:34.976
kids don't

00:39:34.976 --> 00:39:35.126
have

00:39:35.126 --> 00:39:35.756
self-esteem.

00:39:35.756 --> 00:39:35.936
Well,

00:39:35.936 --> 00:39:37.076
we need a new program.

00:39:37.076 --> 00:39:37.556
And so we

00:39:37.556 --> 00:39:37.706
have

00:39:37.706 --> 00:39:37.916
all

00:39:37.916 --> 00:39:38.216
of these

00:39:38.216 --> 00:39:38.816
programs

00:39:38.816 --> 00:39:39.026
that are

00:39:39.026 --> 00:39:40.226
supposed to mitigate

00:39:40.706 --> 00:39:41.066
again,

00:39:41.066 --> 00:39:42.206
the issues that

00:39:42.206 --> 00:39:44.006
are being exasperated by

00:39:44.721 --> 00:39:45.746
the, the,

00:39:45.746 --> 00:39:45.926
uh,

00:39:45.926 --> 00:39:46.916
the technology.

00:39:47.246 --> 00:39:49.046
But we don't go to technology.

00:39:50.036 --> 00:39:50.186
We

00:39:50.186 --> 00:39:50.396
don't

00:39:50.396 --> 00:39:51.776
remove technology as an

00:39:51.776 --> 00:39:52.076
answer.

00:39:52.076 --> 00:39:52.616
We bring more

00:39:52.616 --> 00:39:53.606
technology in.

00:39:54.026 --> 00:39:54.806
And, and

00:39:54.806 --> 00:39:55.466
it's just,

00:39:55.586 --> 00:39:57.326
that's the, again, we're captive.

00:39:57.866 --> 00:39:59.576
Our thinking doesn't move beyond

00:40:00.386 --> 00:40:01.736
Frank: There's a, there's a good chapter in

00:40:01.736 --> 00:40:02.186
the book,

00:40:02.246 --> 00:40:02.546
uh,

00:40:02.546 --> 00:40:02.936
that our,

00:40:03.086 --> 00:40:03.746
our third,

00:40:03.956 --> 00:40:04.586
uh, author

00:40:04.586 --> 00:40:04.976
who's not

00:40:04.976 --> 00:40:05.156
here

00:40:05.156 --> 00:40:05.366
today,

00:40:05.366 --> 00:40:05.456
' cause

00:40:05.456 --> 00:40:05.666
she's

00:40:05.666 --> 00:40:06.176
actually in a

00:40:06.176 --> 00:40:06.626
school,

00:40:07.646 --> 00:40:08.606
again, what I think

00:40:08.606 --> 00:40:09.296
makes us different.

00:40:09.296 --> 00:40:09.626
We're actually

00:40:09.626 --> 00:40:09.746
in

00:40:09.746 --> 00:40:11.066
schools every

00:40:11.066 --> 00:40:11.456
week.

00:40:11.752 --> 00:40:12.052
But

00:40:12.052 --> 00:40:12.352
she

00:40:12.352 --> 00:40:12.562
wrote

00:40:12.562 --> 00:40:12.622
a

00:40:12.622 --> 00:40:13.492
chapter on durable

00:40:13.492 --> 00:40:14.422
skills and

00:40:14.422 --> 00:40:15.352
integrating those

00:40:15.352 --> 00:40:15.622
into

00:40:15.622 --> 00:40:16.282
the lesson design.

00:40:16.897 --> 00:40:18.097
and then to really

00:40:18.127 --> 00:40:18.727
making that be

00:40:18.997 --> 00:40:19.387
not

00:40:19.387 --> 00:40:19.567
an

00:40:19.567 --> 00:40:20.707
add-on program,

00:40:21.067 --> 00:40:21.277
but

00:40:21.277 --> 00:40:21.487
like,

00:40:21.487 --> 00:40:21.877
you teach

00:40:21.877 --> 00:40:22.537
a lesson and

00:40:22.537 --> 00:40:23.347
you integrate

00:40:23.347 --> 00:40:24.457
these skills, right?

00:40:24.457 --> 00:40:24.607
You

00:40:24.607 --> 00:40:25.897
integrate communication,

00:40:26.227 --> 00:40:27.127
collaboration,

00:40:27.127 --> 00:40:28.147
critical thinking.

00:40:28.477 --> 00:40:28.867
It's not

00:40:28.867 --> 00:40:29.497
an aside

00:40:29.497 --> 00:40:29.737
and it's

00:40:29.737 --> 00:40:29.947
not

00:40:29.947 --> 00:40:30.007
a

00:40:30.007 --> 00:40:30.577
program.

00:40:30.577 --> 00:40:31.027
It's something

00:40:31.027 --> 00:40:31.957
you just do

00:40:32.317 --> 00:40:32.527
as

00:40:32.527 --> 00:40:32.857
part of

00:40:32.857 --> 00:40:32.947
your

00:40:32.947 --> 00:40:33.727
lesson design.

00:40:34.462 --> 00:40:34.702
probably

00:40:34.702 --> 00:40:34.792
my

00:40:34.792 --> 00:40:35.422
favorite part of

00:40:35.422 --> 00:40:35.782
the book

00:40:35.782 --> 00:40:35.962
is

00:40:35.962 --> 00:40:36.292
the

00:40:36.712 --> 00:40:36.862
the

00:40:36.862 --> 00:40:37.672
superintendent

00:40:37.672 --> 00:40:38.152
speech

00:40:38.182 --> 00:40:38.872
at the end of

00:40:39.616 --> 00:40:40.066
and

00:40:40.066 --> 00:40:40.126
the

00:40:40.126 --> 00:40:41.086
superintendent kind of

00:40:41.716 --> 00:40:42.736
is compared

00:40:43.036 --> 00:40:43.186
to

00:40:43.186 --> 00:40:44.116
a superintendent

00:40:44.326 --> 00:40:45.166
in the prologue

00:40:45.166 --> 00:40:45.286
of

00:40:45.286 --> 00:40:45.766
the book,

00:40:46.156 --> 00:40:46.456
who

00:40:46.456 --> 00:40:46.666
was

00:40:47.086 --> 00:40:47.266
the

00:40:47.266 --> 00:40:48.886
gung ho in 2014.

00:40:49.156 --> 00:40:49.306
The

00:40:49.306 --> 00:40:49.546
setting

00:40:49.546 --> 00:40:50.176
is 2014

00:40:50.176 --> 00:40:50.776
for the prologue.

00:40:51.121 --> 00:40:52.251
Very gung-ho, very

00:40:52.256 --> 00:40:52.606
like,

00:40:52.606 --> 00:40:52.726
you

00:40:52.726 --> 00:40:52.816
know,

00:40:52.816 --> 00:40:53.266
let's get

00:40:53.266 --> 00:40:53.746
this,

00:40:54.106 --> 00:40:54.316
let's

00:40:54.316 --> 00:40:54.466
get

00:40:54.466 --> 00:40:54.616
this,

00:40:54.616 --> 00:40:54.706
we

00:40:54.706 --> 00:40:54.856
gotta

00:40:54.856 --> 00:40:55.186
get a screen

00:40:55.186 --> 00:40:55.396
in front

00:40:55.396 --> 00:40:55.906
of every kid.

00:40:56.626 --> 00:40:56.896
The

00:40:56.896 --> 00:40:57.496
superintendent

00:40:57.496 --> 00:40:57.556
in

00:40:57.556 --> 00:40:58.366
2034,

00:40:58.366 --> 00:40:59.386
which is the, which

00:40:59.386 --> 00:41:00.046
is where the epilogue

00:41:00.046 --> 00:41:01.066
is, says, we're not gonna do that.

00:41:01.696 --> 00:41:02.896
We're gonna dial back.

00:41:02.896 --> 00:41:03.886
We're gonna use 'em when, when

00:41:03.886 --> 00:41:04.186
we need.

00:41:04.186 --> 00:41:04.996
' 'em, But

00:41:04.996 --> 00:41:05.086
they're

00:41:05.086 --> 00:41:06.076
not gonna dominate our lives.

00:41:06.076 --> 00:41:07.636
We don't like what we're seeing with our kids.

00:41:07.924 --> 00:41:08.014
And

00:41:08.014 --> 00:41:08.104
he

00:41:08.104 --> 00:41:11.224
talks about durable skills and communication and collaboration and all of that.

00:41:11.944 --> 00:41:15.304
And, and the super fictional superintendent says, um,

00:41:15.567 --> 00:41:17.307
not that long ago, computer science

00:41:17.307 --> 00:41:18.387
majors were like

00:41:18.387 --> 00:41:18.507
the

00:41:18.507 --> 00:41:19.227
exploding

00:41:19.227 --> 00:41:19.797
major.

00:41:19.947 --> 00:41:20.427
Right?

00:41:20.457 --> 00:41:20.757
And

00:41:20.877 --> 00:41:21.297
colleges

00:41:21.297 --> 00:41:22.047
across the country,

00:41:22.677 --> 00:41:22.887
some

00:41:22.887 --> 00:41:22.977
of

00:41:22.977 --> 00:41:23.097
those

00:41:23.097 --> 00:41:23.277
kids

00:41:23.277 --> 00:41:24.207
can't find a job now

00:41:24.567 --> 00:41:25.347
because AI has

00:41:25.347 --> 00:41:25.587
taken

00:41:25.677 --> 00:41:25.827
that

00:41:25.827 --> 00:41:26.097
away,

00:41:26.097 --> 00:41:26.367
right?

00:41:26.607 --> 00:41:26.757
We

00:41:26.757 --> 00:41:26.907
need

00:41:26.907 --> 00:41:27.687
to make the kids

00:41:27.687 --> 00:41:28.947
durable themselves.

00:41:29.187 --> 00:41:29.307
And

00:41:29.307 --> 00:41:29.427
it's

00:41:29.427 --> 00:41:29.697
not so

00:41:29.697 --> 00:41:30.477
much the content,

00:41:30.477 --> 00:41:30.897
it's not so much

00:41:30.897 --> 00:41:31.527
the program

00:41:31.737 --> 00:41:32.247
It's having

00:41:32.247 --> 00:41:33.207
those skills

00:41:33.447 --> 00:41:33.657
where

00:41:33.657 --> 00:41:33.957
they

00:41:33.957 --> 00:41:34.377
get to

00:41:34.377 --> 00:41:34.917
adapt

00:41:34.917 --> 00:41:35.037
and

00:41:35.037 --> 00:41:35.607
interact

00:41:35.607 --> 00:41:35.697
and

00:41:35.697 --> 00:41:36.387
communicate and

00:41:36.387 --> 00:41:37.047
collaborate.

00:41:37.377 --> 00:41:37.707
That

00:41:37.707 --> 00:41:37.887
is

00:41:37.887 --> 00:41:38.277
missing.

00:41:38.277 --> 00:41:38.367
And

00:41:38.367 --> 00:41:39.267
it's not bringing in,

00:41:39.567 --> 00:41:39.807
you know,

00:41:39.807 --> 00:41:40.077
let's

00:41:40.077 --> 00:41:40.317
add

00:41:40.317 --> 00:41:40.557
on

00:41:40.557 --> 00:41:40.707
an

00:41:40.707 --> 00:41:41.127
SEL

00:41:41.127 --> 00:41:41.547
program

00:41:41.547 --> 00:41:41.997
or whatever.

00:41:41.997 --> 00:41:42.777
It's, let's

00:41:42.837 --> 00:41:43.407
integrate

00:41:43.407 --> 00:41:43.497
it

00:41:43.497 --> 00:41:44.877
into what the kids are doing every day.

00:41:45.207 --> 00:41:45.537
Very

00:41:45.537 --> 00:41:45.927
difficult

00:41:45.927 --> 00:41:46.047
to

00:41:46.047 --> 00:41:47.007
do if they're on screens

00:41:47.007 --> 00:41:47.787
three or four hours a

00:41:47.787 --> 00:41:47.997
day.

00:41:48.987 --> 00:41:54.567
Bart: So if you were advising a superintendent tomorrow, what's the first move toward balance

00:41:55.092 --> 00:41:56.472
Gene Tavernetti: by digital captives?

00:41:57.196 --> 00:41:57.556
I, say

00:41:57.556 --> 00:41:57.646
it

00:41:57.646 --> 00:41:57.886
as a

00:41:57.886 --> 00:41:59.866
joke, but you know, as Frank said,

00:41:59.896 --> 00:42:00.796
this, is

00:42:00.826 --> 00:42:01.066
what's

00:42:01.066 --> 00:42:02.476
different about this book

00:42:02.566 --> 00:42:03.346
is that

00:42:03.406 --> 00:42:04.306
the three of us

00:42:04.306 --> 00:42:04.936
who were

00:42:04.936 --> 00:42:05.626
involved in this

00:42:05.626 --> 00:42:05.986
book.

00:42:06.346 --> 00:42:08.686
We're actually working in schools

00:42:09.076 --> 00:42:09.436
in

00:42:09.436 --> 00:42:09.556
the

00:42:09.556 --> 00:42:10.126
aughts.

00:42:10.306 --> 00:42:10.906
I never said

00:42:10.906 --> 00:42:11.056
that

00:42:11.056 --> 00:42:11.446
before

00:42:11.476 --> 00:42:11.626
in

00:42:11.626 --> 00:42:12.316
the aughts.

00:42:12.496 --> 00:42:12.766
We,

00:42:12.826 --> 00:42:12.976
We,

00:42:12.976 --> 00:42:13.096
were

00:42:13.096 --> 00:42:14.446
working and seeing this,

00:42:14.446 --> 00:42:14.926
seeing

00:42:14.926 --> 00:42:17.236
this work, seeing, seeing,

00:42:17.296 --> 00:42:17.596
uh,

00:42:17.596 --> 00:42:17.926
what we

00:42:17.926 --> 00:42:18.196
talked

00:42:18.196 --> 00:42:18.376
about

00:42:18.376 --> 00:42:18.976
actually

00:42:18.976 --> 00:42:19.486
doing

00:42:19.486 --> 00:42:19.936
this work,

00:42:20.056 --> 00:42:20.326
you

00:42:20.326 --> 00:42:21.916
know, that I'd be, you know

00:42:21.976 --> 00:42:22.366
Frank

00:42:22.396 --> 00:42:22.636
used

00:42:22.636 --> 00:42:24.796
to you'd be at, be in your district doing,

00:42:24.826 --> 00:42:25.246
doing that

00:42:25.246 --> 00:42:25.576
work.

00:42:25.876 --> 00:42:27.166
So we know that

00:42:27.346 --> 00:42:27.526
it's

00:42:27.526 --> 00:42:28.096
not enough to

00:42:28.096 --> 00:42:29.356
identify the problem.

00:42:29.896 --> 00:42:30.016
You

00:42:30.016 --> 00:42:30.796
know, what, what can

00:42:30.796 --> 00:42:30.916
we

00:42:30.916 --> 00:42:31.426
do about

00:42:31.426 --> 00:42:31.516
it?

00:42:31.996 --> 00:42:32.206
It's

00:42:32.206 --> 00:42:32.596
gonna be

00:42:32.596 --> 00:42:32.776
as

00:42:32.776 --> 00:42:33.466
difficult

00:42:33.526 --> 00:42:33.646
to

00:42:33.646 --> 00:42:34.066
get out

00:42:34.066 --> 00:42:34.246
of the

00:42:34.246 --> 00:42:34.726
problem

00:42:34.726 --> 00:42:34.906
as

00:42:34.906 --> 00:42:34.996
it

00:42:34.996 --> 00:42:35.176
was

00:42:35.176 --> 00:42:35.446
easy

00:42:35.446 --> 00:42:36.166
to get in.

00:42:36.646 --> 00:42:37.216
But

00:42:37.516 --> 00:42:37.756
there

00:42:37.756 --> 00:42:38.506
is a roadmap,

00:42:38.746 --> 00:42:38.926
and

00:42:38.926 --> 00:42:39.016
I

00:42:39.016 --> 00:42:39.256
think

00:42:39.256 --> 00:42:39.646
that's,

00:42:39.646 --> 00:42:39.946
that's

00:42:39.946 --> 00:42:40.546
the power

00:42:40.546 --> 00:42:41.146
of, of this

00:42:41.146 --> 00:42:41.356
book.

00:42:41.356 --> 00:42:41.446
There

00:42:41.446 --> 00:42:41.596
are

00:42:41.596 --> 00:42:42.916
so many folks,

00:42:43.306 --> 00:42:43.606
in

00:42:43.606 --> 00:42:43.816
the

00:42:44.026 --> 00:42:44.836
consulting

00:42:44.836 --> 00:42:46.126
business who

00:42:46.126 --> 00:42:49.036
like to go in and walk around and

00:42:49.036 --> 00:42:49.516
say, ah, you

00:42:49.516 --> 00:42:50.176
need to do this, you

00:42:50.176 --> 00:42:50.386
need to

00:42:50.386 --> 00:42:50.506
do

00:42:50.506 --> 00:42:50.866
that,

00:42:50.926 --> 00:42:51.106
but

00:42:51.106 --> 00:42:51.916
how do you do it?

00:42:52.276 --> 00:42:52.456
And

00:42:52.456 --> 00:42:52.516
I

00:42:52.516 --> 00:42:53.086
think that's

00:42:53.086 --> 00:42:53.386
a big

00:42:53.386 --> 00:42:53.806
difference

00:42:53.806 --> 00:42:54.796
in, in, this book.

00:42:55.696 --> 00:42:55.906
Frank: Yeah, I

00:42:55.906 --> 00:42:56.116
think

00:42:56.116 --> 00:42:56.236
we

00:42:56.236 --> 00:42:57.796
spent, we spend basically

00:42:57.796 --> 00:42:58.696
the intro

00:42:58.696 --> 00:42:58.846
and

00:42:58.846 --> 00:42:59.266
chapter

00:42:59.266 --> 00:42:59.596
one

00:42:59.596 --> 00:42:59.956
presenting

00:42:59.956 --> 00:43:00.526
the problem

00:43:00.850 --> 00:43:01.060
and

00:43:01.060 --> 00:43:01.420
then,

00:43:01.420 --> 00:43:02.050
uh, two

00:43:02.050 --> 00:43:02.260
through

00:43:02.260 --> 00:43:02.710
six

00:43:02.710 --> 00:43:02.860
how

00:43:02.860 --> 00:43:02.980
to,

00:43:03.040 --> 00:43:03.580
how to get

00:43:03.580 --> 00:43:05.170
out of that, And

00:43:05.170 --> 00:43:05.890
so so

00:43:05.890 --> 00:43:06.130
yeah,

00:43:06.130 --> 00:43:06.340
read

00:43:06.340 --> 00:43:06.430
the

00:43:06.430 --> 00:43:06.760
book

00:43:06.820 --> 00:43:07.000
would

00:43:07.000 --> 00:43:07.210
be the

00:43:07.210 --> 00:43:07.450
first

00:43:07.450 --> 00:43:07.540
thing.

00:43:07.540 --> 00:43:07.660
But

00:43:07.660 --> 00:43:07.720
I

00:43:07.720 --> 00:43:07.960
think

00:43:08.260 --> 00:43:08.770
secondly, it

00:43:08.770 --> 00:43:08.860
would

00:43:08.860 --> 00:43:08.920
be

00:43:08.920 --> 00:43:09.130
like,

00:43:09.340 --> 00:43:09.490
let's

00:43:09.490 --> 00:43:09.820
go to your

00:43:09.820 --> 00:43:10.300
classrooms.

00:43:10.570 --> 00:43:10.720
Let's

00:43:10.720 --> 00:43:10.840
go

00:43:10.840 --> 00:43:11.080
walk

00:43:11.080 --> 00:43:11.380
20

00:43:11.380 --> 00:43:12.580
classrooms randomly

00:43:13.150 --> 00:43:13.300
and

00:43:13.300 --> 00:43:14.230
let's just look

00:43:14.230 --> 00:43:14.500
at

00:43:15.010 --> 00:43:15.820
how engaged are

00:43:15.820 --> 00:43:16.215
the students

00:43:17.740 --> 00:43:18.040
with

00:43:18.040 --> 00:43:18.400
only

00:43:18.400 --> 00:43:18.640
one

00:43:18.640 --> 00:43:19.150
variable?

00:43:19.150 --> 00:43:19.330
Are

00:43:19.330 --> 00:43:19.480
they

00:43:19.480 --> 00:43:20.110
on screens or

00:43:20.165 --> 00:43:20.365
not?

00:43:21.040 --> 00:43:21.160
And

00:43:21.160 --> 00:43:21.310
what

00:43:21.310 --> 00:43:21.400
you're

00:43:21.400 --> 00:43:21.610
gonna

00:43:21.610 --> 00:43:21.760
see

00:43:21.760 --> 00:43:21.880
is

00:43:21.880 --> 00:43:21.970
the

00:43:21.970 --> 00:43:22.510
more they're on

00:43:22.510 --> 00:43:22.900
screens,

00:43:22.900 --> 00:43:23.470
the less engaged.

00:43:24.280 --> 00:43:24.640
um,

00:43:24.700 --> 00:43:25.060
and I don't

00:43:25.060 --> 00:43:25.180
need

00:43:25.180 --> 00:43:25.630
a, you

00:43:25.630 --> 00:43:25.840
know,

00:43:25.840 --> 00:43:26.080
a

00:43:26.440 --> 00:43:26.710
double

00:43:26.710 --> 00:43:26.950
blind

00:43:26.950 --> 00:43:27.520
experiment

00:43:27.520 --> 00:43:27.640
for

00:43:27.640 --> 00:43:27.790
that.

00:43:27.790 --> 00:43:27.970
We can

00:43:27.970 --> 00:43:28.180
just go

00:43:28.180 --> 00:43:28.300
and

00:43:28.300 --> 00:43:28.510
walk

00:43:28.510 --> 00:43:28.690
into

00:43:28.690 --> 00:43:28.900
20

00:43:28.900 --> 00:43:29.560
classrooms, or probably

00:43:29.560 --> 00:43:30.130
any school in

00:43:30.130 --> 00:43:30.190
the

00:43:30.190 --> 00:43:30.640
country

00:43:31.120 --> 00:43:31.450
that,

00:43:31.450 --> 00:43:31.780
any

00:43:32.620 --> 00:43:33.280
mainstream public

00:43:33.280 --> 00:43:33.580
school in the

00:43:33.580 --> 00:43:34.120
country that,

00:43:35.260 --> 00:43:35.755
purports

00:43:35.755 --> 00:43:35.860
to

00:43:35.860 --> 00:43:35.950
be

00:43:35.950 --> 00:43:36.550
balanced

00:43:36.940 --> 00:43:37.810
and we would see it.

00:43:38.590 --> 00:43:42.730
Bart: So what does healthy intentional tech integration actually look like then?

00:43:43.294 --> 00:43:43.654
Frank: that's a good

00:43:43.654 --> 00:43:44.104
question.

00:43:44.104 --> 00:43:44.164
We

00:43:44.164 --> 00:43:44.614
were just having

00:43:44.614 --> 00:43:44.704
a

00:43:44.704 --> 00:43:45.304
conversation

00:43:45.304 --> 00:43:46.714
yesterday actually with,

00:43:46.714 --> 00:43:47.284
uh,

00:43:47.314 --> 00:43:47.944
regarding

00:43:47.944 --> 00:43:48.184
how to

00:43:48.184 --> 00:43:49.504
use AI to

00:43:49.504 --> 00:43:50.344
help us write,

00:43:50.374 --> 00:43:50.824
um,

00:43:50.914 --> 00:43:51.449
lessons.

00:43:52.084 --> 00:43:52.384
that

00:43:52.384 --> 00:43:54.574
integrate, collaboration, communication And everything

00:43:54.574 --> 00:43:54.814
else.

00:43:55.174 --> 00:43:56.064
It's not saying,

00:43:56.854 --> 00:43:57.144
I'll

00:43:57.144 --> 00:43:57.224
start

00:43:57.224 --> 00:43:57.384
by

00:43:57.384 --> 00:43:57.799
saying, what it's

00:43:57.799 --> 00:43:58.189
not,

00:43:58.279 --> 00:43:58.609
Um,

00:43:58.669 --> 00:43:58.879
it's

00:43:58.879 --> 00:43:59.239
not

00:43:59.239 --> 00:43:59.419
like

00:43:59.419 --> 00:43:59.869
taking the

00:44:00.469 --> 00:44:01.099
Chromebooks away.

00:44:01.459 --> 00:44:01.609
You

00:44:01.609 --> 00:44:01.879
know, it's

00:44:01.879 --> 00:44:02.119
not

00:44:02.119 --> 00:44:02.419
that

00:44:02.569 --> 00:44:02.719
the

00:44:02.719 --> 00:44:03.349
kiddos are gonna

00:44:03.349 --> 00:44:03.499
need

00:44:03.499 --> 00:44:04.399
'em, they're gonna need

00:44:04.399 --> 00:44:04.519
to

00:44:04.519 --> 00:44:04.639
be

00:44:04.639 --> 00:44:05.149
able to

00:44:05.179 --> 00:44:05.419
every

00:44:05.419 --> 00:44:05.569
day

00:44:05.569 --> 00:44:05.719
we

00:44:05.719 --> 00:44:05.899
use

00:44:05.899 --> 00:44:06.799
it, we use email.

00:44:07.189 --> 00:44:07.369
We

00:44:07.369 --> 00:44:07.519
do,

00:44:07.519 --> 00:44:07.969
fa uh,

00:44:07.999 --> 00:44:08.299
video

00:44:08.299 --> 00:44:08.689
conferences.

00:44:08.689 --> 00:44:09.289
We're using technology

00:44:09.289 --> 00:44:09.799
right now.

00:44:09.799 --> 00:44:10.099
Right.

00:44:10.579 --> 00:44:10.999
Um,

00:44:11.059 --> 00:44:11.119
we're

00:44:11.119 --> 00:44:11.299
gonna

00:44:11.299 --> 00:44:11.479
put

00:44:11.479 --> 00:44:11.659
this

00:44:11.659 --> 00:44:12.289
out on social

00:44:12.289 --> 00:44:12.649
media

00:44:12.949 --> 00:44:13.159
so

00:44:13.159 --> 00:44:14.029
we know that we need

00:44:14.029 --> 00:44:14.749
to use

00:44:14.839 --> 00:44:15.559
the devices.

00:44:15.889 --> 00:44:16.669
What healthy

00:44:16.669 --> 00:44:17.119
is,

00:44:17.299 --> 00:44:17.479
it's

00:44:17.479 --> 00:44:18.244
not the default.

00:44:18.949 --> 00:44:19.129
The

00:44:19.129 --> 00:44:19.729
default

00:44:19.729 --> 00:44:20.209
is the

00:44:20.209 --> 00:44:21.289
human interaction.

00:44:21.649 --> 00:44:22.099
So I'd

00:44:22.099 --> 00:44:22.639
be looking at

00:44:22.639 --> 00:44:22.669
a

00:44:22.669 --> 00:44:23.119
classroom

00:44:23.119 --> 00:44:23.209
at

00:44:23.209 --> 00:44:23.269
the

00:44:23.269 --> 00:44:23.989
elementary level,

00:44:23.989 --> 00:44:24.139
let's

00:44:24.139 --> 00:44:24.409
say

00:44:24.885 --> 00:44:25.245
you know,

00:44:25.275 --> 00:44:25.395
the

00:44:25.395 --> 00:44:25.725
kids

00:44:25.725 --> 00:44:25.845
are

00:44:25.845 --> 00:44:26.115
not

00:44:26.115 --> 00:44:26.355
on

00:44:26.355 --> 00:44:26.445
it

00:44:26.445 --> 00:44:26.715
more

00:44:26.715 --> 00:44:27.075
than

00:44:27.435 --> 00:44:28.005
10%

00:44:28.005 --> 00:44:28.065
of

00:44:28.065 --> 00:44:28.545
the time

00:44:28.545 --> 00:44:28.785
in the

00:44:28.785 --> 00:44:29.715
primary grades.

00:44:30.255 --> 00:44:30.495
There's

00:44:30.495 --> 00:44:31.215
actually, in the

00:44:31.215 --> 00:44:32.145
superintendent speech,

00:44:32.145 --> 00:44:32.805
in chapter six,

00:44:33.165 --> 00:44:33.285
he

00:44:33.285 --> 00:44:33.555
gives

00:44:33.555 --> 00:44:34.605
this theoretical,

00:44:35.025 --> 00:44:35.325
like

00:44:35.325 --> 00:44:36.315
graduated,

00:44:36.315 --> 00:44:36.795
uh,

00:44:36.855 --> 00:44:37.755
digital model

00:44:38.175 --> 00:44:38.685
Where

00:44:39.675 --> 00:44:39.855
in

00:44:39.855 --> 00:44:40.815
kindergarten, first grade,

00:44:40.815 --> 00:44:41.085
second

00:44:41.085 --> 00:44:41.385
grade.

00:44:41.595 --> 00:44:43.095
Kids aren't on, but like 10,

00:44:43.095 --> 00:44:43.965
20% of the time,

00:44:44.385 --> 00:44:44.565
by

00:44:44.565 --> 00:44:45.525
the time you get to high school,

00:44:45.555 --> 00:44:46.545
maybe 40% of the

00:44:46.545 --> 00:44:46.785
time,

00:44:47.085 --> 00:44:47.295
but

00:44:47.325 --> 00:44:48.195
it's all

00:44:49.065 --> 00:44:50.745
always less than the contact.

00:44:50.745 --> 00:44:54.030
They're having human to they can get

00:44:54.030 --> 00:44:54.540
the screens at

00:44:54.540 --> 00:44:54.900
home.

00:44:55.410 --> 00:44:55.560
They

00:44:55.560 --> 00:44:56.190
shouldn't, but they

00:44:56.190 --> 00:44:56.640
can.

00:44:56.880 --> 00:44:58.355
What they can't get at home, at,

00:44:58.530 --> 00:44:59.010
at home

00:44:59.010 --> 00:44:59.310
is

00:44:59.520 --> 00:44:59.730
the

00:44:59.730 --> 00:45:00.900
the interaction

00:45:00.900 --> 00:45:01.780
with 29 classmates.

00:45:02.460 --> 00:45:02.790
Right,

00:45:02.790 --> 00:45:02.940
They

00:45:02.940 --> 00:45:03.270
can't

00:45:03.270 --> 00:45:03.480
get

00:45:03.480 --> 00:45:03.720
that.

00:45:03.720 --> 00:45:04.080
So that's

00:45:04.080 --> 00:45:04.140
a

00:45:04.140 --> 00:45:04.350
part

00:45:04.350 --> 00:45:04.560
that

00:45:04.950 --> 00:45:05.190
I think

00:45:05.190 --> 00:45:05.460
would be

00:45:05.460 --> 00:45:05.700
a

00:45:05.705 --> 00:45:06.700
a key piece in the balance,

00:45:06.915 --> 00:45:07.035
Gene Tavernetti: you

00:45:07.035 --> 00:45:07.785
know, and, and

00:45:07.785 --> 00:45:08.625
many times,

00:45:08.625 --> 00:45:09.195
uh,

00:45:09.375 --> 00:45:09.585
as

00:45:09.585 --> 00:45:10.215
administrators

00:45:10.215 --> 00:45:10.935
we're afraid

00:45:10.935 --> 00:45:11.085
to

00:45:11.085 --> 00:45:11.415
make these

00:45:11.415 --> 00:45:11.865
changes.

00:45:11.865 --> 00:45:12.135
What's

00:45:12.135 --> 00:45:12.615
gonna happen

00:45:12.615 --> 00:45:13.035
if we do it?

00:45:13.575 --> 00:45:13.875
You know,

00:45:13.875 --> 00:45:14.055
when

00:45:14.055 --> 00:45:14.745
the kids,

00:45:15.135 --> 00:45:15.555
when

00:45:15.735 --> 00:45:15.945
we

00:45:15.945 --> 00:45:17.025
have convinced a

00:45:17.025 --> 00:45:17.385
teacher

00:45:17.385 --> 00:45:18.075
to try

00:45:18.075 --> 00:45:18.165
a

00:45:18.165 --> 00:45:18.855
lesson without

00:45:18.855 --> 00:45:19.455
screens,

00:45:19.845 --> 00:45:20.055
it's

00:45:20.055 --> 00:45:20.775
almost like a sigh

00:45:20.775 --> 00:45:20.895
of

00:45:20.895 --> 00:45:21.375
relief.

00:45:21.435 --> 00:45:21.555
The

00:45:21.555 --> 00:45:22.845
kids are so happy

00:45:23.205 --> 00:45:23.655
not

00:45:23.655 --> 00:45:23.805
to

00:45:23.805 --> 00:45:24.555
be on

00:45:24.915 --> 00:45:25.095
the

00:45:25.095 --> 00:45:25.815
Chromebook

00:45:25.935 --> 00:45:26.145
all

00:45:26.145 --> 00:45:26.685
period.

00:45:26.955 --> 00:45:27.795
Or a big part of,

00:45:27.855 --> 00:45:27.975
a

00:45:27.975 --> 00:45:28.185
big

00:45:28.185 --> 00:45:28.425
part

00:45:28.425 --> 00:45:28.485
of

00:45:28.515 --> 00:45:28.575
the

00:45:28.605 --> 00:45:28.965
period.

00:45:28.995 --> 00:45:29.145
They

00:45:29.145 --> 00:45:29.595
miss it.

00:45:30.225 --> 00:45:30.765
They miss it.

00:45:30.765 --> 00:45:31.155
And, And,

00:45:31.155 --> 00:45:31.425
that's

00:45:31.425 --> 00:45:32.655
that transformational

00:45:33.345 --> 00:45:33.795
things that

00:45:33.795 --> 00:45:33.885
we're

00:45:33.885 --> 00:45:34.245
talking

00:45:34.245 --> 00:45:34.635
about.

00:45:34.635 --> 00:45:34.875
And,

00:45:34.875 --> 00:45:35.055
and

00:45:35.055 --> 00:45:36.375
we learn from other people

00:45:36.375 --> 00:45:36.495
and

00:45:36.495 --> 00:45:36.825
we need

00:45:36.825 --> 00:45:37.185
to have

00:45:37.185 --> 00:45:37.425
that,

00:45:37.695 --> 00:45:37.845
to

00:45:37.845 --> 00:45:38.265
have that

00:45:38.265 --> 00:45:38.985
contact.

00:45:39.315 --> 00:45:39.615
We

00:45:39.615 --> 00:45:40.335
are, um,

00:45:41.055 --> 00:45:41.265
uh,

00:45:41.295 --> 00:45:41.445
we're

00:45:41.445 --> 00:45:41.835
stealing

00:45:41.835 --> 00:45:42.135
that.

00:45:42.610 --> 00:45:42.760
we

00:45:42.760 --> 00:45:42.940
just

00:45:42.940 --> 00:45:43.060
have

00:45:43.060 --> 00:45:43.150
to

00:45:43.150 --> 00:45:43.330
have

00:45:43.330 --> 00:45:43.750
some,

00:45:43.750 --> 00:45:44.955
some courage to try things.

00:45:45.925 --> 00:45:46.045
Frank: I

00:45:46.045 --> 00:45:46.165
was

00:45:46.165 --> 00:45:46.315
in

00:45:46.315 --> 00:45:46.705
a in

00:45:46.705 --> 00:45:48.025
a math classroom,

00:45:48.595 --> 00:45:48.865
an

00:45:48.865 --> 00:45:49.465
alternative

00:45:49.525 --> 00:45:50.455
education site.

00:45:50.515 --> 00:45:50.975
Um,

00:45:51.685 --> 00:45:53.695
kids are used to just being on the right?

00:45:53.695 --> 00:45:55.435
That's, that's the nature

00:45:55.435 --> 00:45:56.125
of an alternative

00:45:56.125 --> 00:45:56.515
ed site

00:45:56.515 --> 00:45:56.755
a lot

00:45:56.755 --> 00:45:56.905
of the

00:45:58.195 --> 00:45:58.345
And

00:45:58.345 --> 00:45:58.465
we

00:45:58.465 --> 00:45:58.855
convinced

00:45:58.855 --> 00:45:59.575
the teacher to try

00:45:59.575 --> 00:45:59.725
out

00:45:59.755 --> 00:45:59.875
a

00:45:59.875 --> 00:46:00.175
math

00:46:00.175 --> 00:46:00.535
lesson

00:46:00.565 --> 00:46:00.955
just six

00:46:00.955 --> 00:46:01.375
kids

00:46:01.855 --> 00:46:02.005
in

00:46:02.005 --> 00:46:02.875
the class.

00:46:03.055 --> 00:46:03.205
And

00:46:03.205 --> 00:46:03.445
they,

00:46:03.595 --> 00:46:03.715
you

00:46:03.715 --> 00:46:03.985
know,

00:46:04.015 --> 00:46:04.255
she

00:46:04.255 --> 00:46:05.095
taught the lesson.

00:46:05.095 --> 00:46:05.695
She had

00:46:05.700 --> 00:46:05.935
a, a

00:46:05.935 --> 00:46:06.445
hook

00:46:06.445 --> 00:46:06.685
that

00:46:06.685 --> 00:46:07.435
connected to

00:46:07.435 --> 00:46:07.975
real life

00:46:07.975 --> 00:46:08.395
learning.

00:46:08.395 --> 00:46:09.385
She had an objective,

00:46:09.385 --> 00:46:09.745
she

00:46:10.135 --> 00:46:10.405
taught

00:46:10.405 --> 00:46:10.525
the

00:46:10.525 --> 00:46:11.095
big idea.

00:46:11.125 --> 00:46:14.425
I think it was like computing simple Yeah,

00:46:14.485 --> 00:46:14.635
that's

00:46:14.635 --> 00:46:14.755
what

00:46:14.755 --> 00:46:14.815
it

00:46:14.815 --> 00:46:14.995
was.

00:46:14.995 --> 00:46:15.085
And

00:46:15.085 --> 00:46:15.205
it

00:46:15.205 --> 00:46:15.685
was, the hook

00:46:15.685 --> 00:46:16.225
was like,

00:46:16.225 --> 00:46:16.855
if you have money in

00:46:16.855 --> 00:46:16.915
the

00:46:16.915 --> 00:46:18.445
bank, uh, what do you

00:46:18.445 --> 00:46:18.715
have

00:46:19.165 --> 00:46:19.645
2%

00:46:19.645 --> 00:46:20.425
interest or 4%

00:46:21.205 --> 00:46:21.445
Uh,

00:46:21.475 --> 00:46:21.625
and

00:46:21.625 --> 00:46:21.925
then she

00:46:21.925 --> 00:46:22.435
modeled

00:46:22.435 --> 00:46:22.525
and

00:46:22.525 --> 00:46:22.615
the

00:46:22.615 --> 00:46:23.035
kids did

00:46:23.035 --> 00:46:23.335
guided

00:46:23.335 --> 00:46:23.725
practice

00:46:23.725 --> 00:46:23.995
using

00:46:23.995 --> 00:46:24.835
the whiteboards from

00:46:24.835 --> 00:46:25.765
2005

00:46:26.035 --> 00:46:26.965
or prior to,

00:46:27.279 --> 00:46:27.612
and

00:46:27.612 --> 00:46:27.762
at

00:46:27.762 --> 00:46:27.882
the

00:46:27.882 --> 00:46:28.032
end

00:46:28.032 --> 00:46:28.092
of

00:46:28.092 --> 00:46:28.182
the

00:46:28.182 --> 00:46:28.602
lesson,

00:46:28.602 --> 00:46:28.812
we're

00:46:28.812 --> 00:46:29.022
gonna

00:46:29.022 --> 00:46:29.202
sit

00:46:29.202 --> 00:46:29.472
down and

00:46:29.472 --> 00:46:29.982
debrief the

00:46:29.982 --> 00:46:30.312
lesson.

00:46:30.312 --> 00:46:30.462
And

00:46:30.462 --> 00:46:30.942
the student,

00:46:31.555 --> 00:46:31.915
had

00:46:31.915 --> 00:46:32.305
walked

00:46:32.305 --> 00:46:33.385
out and walked back in

00:46:33.895 --> 00:46:34.255
and she

00:46:34.255 --> 00:46:34.615
said,

00:46:34.615 --> 00:46:35.515
miss, can

00:46:35.515 --> 00:46:35.935
we do that again

00:46:35.935 --> 00:46:36.325
tomorrow?

00:46:36.876 --> 00:46:37.416
Yeah.

00:46:37.776 --> 00:46:38.106
The teacher

00:46:38.111 --> 00:46:38.171
said,

00:46:38.901 --> 00:46:39.021
The

00:46:39.021 --> 00:46:39.321
teacher

00:46:39.321 --> 00:46:39.621
said,

00:46:39.621 --> 00:46:39.801
uh,

00:46:39.861 --> 00:46:39.951
did

00:46:39.951 --> 00:46:40.191
you

00:46:40.311 --> 00:46:40.791
enjoy that?

00:46:40.791 --> 00:46:41.391
And she's like, yeah, I

00:46:41.391 --> 00:46:41.961
like learning.

00:46:42.501 --> 00:46:43.311
You know, So I

00:46:43.311 --> 00:46:43.461
think

00:46:43.461 --> 00:46:43.611
that

00:46:43.611 --> 00:46:43.851
there's,

00:46:43.851 --> 00:46:44.211
that,

00:46:44.511 --> 00:46:44.841
that's

00:46:44.841 --> 00:46:44.931
a

00:46:44.931 --> 00:46:46.131
huge aha,

00:46:46.613 --> 00:46:47.093
but

00:46:47.093 --> 00:46:47.183
we

00:46:47.183 --> 00:46:47.363
gotta

00:46:47.363 --> 00:46:48.263
convince the teacher to go

00:46:48.263 --> 00:46:48.413
back

00:46:48.413 --> 00:46:48.593
and do

00:46:48.593 --> 00:46:48.653
it

00:46:48.653 --> 00:46:49.313
again tomorrow

00:46:49.643 --> 00:46:49.973
because

00:46:49.973 --> 00:46:50.093
it's

00:46:50.093 --> 00:46:51.023
so easy to

00:46:51.023 --> 00:46:51.413
not,

00:46:51.473 --> 00:46:51.893
right?

00:46:52.823 --> 00:46:53.693
yeah, that, that,

00:46:53.693 --> 00:46:54.083
uh,

00:46:54.263 --> 00:46:54.533
that was

00:46:54.533 --> 00:46:54.713
like a

00:46:54.713 --> 00:46:54.893
really

00:46:54.893 --> 00:46:55.223
telling

00:46:55.223 --> 00:46:55.823
moment for me,

00:46:55.823 --> 00:46:56.303
both for

00:46:56.303 --> 00:46:56.453
what

00:46:56.453 --> 00:46:56.783
Gene was

00:46:56.783 --> 00:46:57.143
saying

00:46:57.413 --> 00:46:57.593
and

00:46:57.593 --> 00:46:57.773
for

00:46:57.773 --> 00:46:57.923
how

00:46:57.923 --> 00:46:58.283
hard

00:46:58.283 --> 00:46:58.523
it is

00:46:58.523 --> 00:46:59.093
to break those

00:46:59.093 --> 00:46:59.483
habits

00:46:59.483 --> 00:47:00.593
that have become ingrained in the last

00:47:00.593 --> 00:47:02.438
three, 10 years.

00:47:03.164 --> 00:47:08.354
Bart: What questions should leaders be asking before adopting new tech, especially ai?

00:47:09.116 --> 00:47:09.356
Frank: Well,

00:47:09.356 --> 00:47:09.566
there's

00:47:09.566 --> 00:47:09.626
a

00:47:09.626 --> 00:47:09.866
whole

00:47:09.866 --> 00:47:10.376
chapter

00:47:10.376 --> 00:47:10.586
on

00:47:10.586 --> 00:47:10.706
it,

00:47:10.706 --> 00:47:10.856
and

00:47:10.856 --> 00:47:11.186
it's,

00:47:11.186 --> 00:47:12.349
um, it's called,

00:47:12.349 --> 00:47:12.949
uh, using

00:47:12.949 --> 00:47:13.219
the

00:47:13.219 --> 00:47:13.789
educational

00:47:13.789 --> 00:47:14.239
vision or

00:47:14.239 --> 00:47:15.514
instructional vision as a filter.

00:47:16.309 --> 00:47:16.879
Um,

00:47:17.419 --> 00:47:17.929
and that should

00:47:17.929 --> 00:47:18.409
be question

00:47:18.409 --> 00:47:18.589
number

00:47:18.589 --> 00:47:20.299
one is what's

00:47:20.299 --> 00:47:20.839
our purpose

00:47:20.839 --> 00:47:21.139
here?

00:47:21.139 --> 00:47:21.439
As

00:47:21.529 --> 00:47:21.799
in

00:47:21.799 --> 00:47:22.219
whatever

00:47:22.219 --> 00:47:22.519
school

00:47:22.519 --> 00:47:24.529
district, there's a fictional school district

00:47:24.529 --> 00:47:24.709
called

00:47:24.739 --> 00:47:25.069
Irving

00:47:25.069 --> 00:47:26.179
School District in the beginning,

00:47:26.599 --> 00:47:26.899
what is

00:47:26.899 --> 00:47:27.709
our purpose in

00:47:27.709 --> 00:47:28.069
the Irving

00:47:28.069 --> 00:47:28.789
School District?

00:47:28.789 --> 00:47:28.999
What

00:47:28.999 --> 00:47:29.119
is

00:47:29.119 --> 00:47:29.659
our mission,

00:47:29.719 --> 00:47:30.259
our vision?

00:47:30.435 --> 00:47:30.765
that

00:47:30.765 --> 00:47:31.035
should be

00:47:31.035 --> 00:47:31.705
the first filter.

00:47:32.102 --> 00:47:32.312
Does

00:47:32.312 --> 00:47:32.612
it fit

00:47:32.612 --> 00:47:32.732
the

00:47:32.732 --> 00:47:33.062
vision

00:47:33.062 --> 00:47:33.152
or

00:47:33.152 --> 00:47:33.362
not?

00:47:33.392 --> 00:47:33.632
If

00:47:33.632 --> 00:47:33.752
in

00:47:33.752 --> 00:47:34.382
our vision we

00:47:34.382 --> 00:47:34.832
say we want

00:47:34.832 --> 00:47:36.272
kids who can collaborate,

00:47:36.662 --> 00:47:37.382
kids who

00:47:37.442 --> 00:47:37.622
can

00:47:37.622 --> 00:47:38.852
communicate well, who can

00:47:38.852 --> 00:47:39.332
sustain

00:47:39.332 --> 00:47:40.202
focus,

00:47:40.232 --> 00:47:40.412
who

00:47:40.412 --> 00:47:41.522
can read deeply?

00:47:42.332 --> 00:47:42.692
Is

00:47:42.692 --> 00:47:42.932
this

00:47:42.932 --> 00:47:44.072
program doing that?

00:47:44.486 --> 00:47:44.696
Let's

00:47:44.696 --> 00:47:44.966
say that

00:47:44.966 --> 00:47:45.566
it is doing all

00:47:45.566 --> 00:47:45.776
those

00:47:46.616 --> 00:47:46.886
Then

00:47:46.886 --> 00:47:46.976
the

00:47:46.976 --> 00:47:47.186
next

00:47:47.186 --> 00:47:47.576
question

00:47:47.576 --> 00:47:47.666
is,

00:47:47.666 --> 00:47:47.876
okay,

00:47:47.876 --> 00:47:48.266
what's

00:47:48.266 --> 00:47:49.136
it replacing?

00:47:49.646 --> 00:47:50.036
Right?

00:47:50.276 --> 00:47:50.546
So

00:47:50.546 --> 00:47:50.816
that's,

00:47:50.816 --> 00:47:51.176
it's always

00:47:51.176 --> 00:47:51.296
an

00:47:51.296 --> 00:47:51.866
opportunity.

00:47:51.866 --> 00:47:52.766
Cost question

00:47:53.246 --> 00:47:53.606
is

00:47:53.606 --> 00:47:53.786
you

00:47:53.786 --> 00:47:53.996
only

00:47:53.996 --> 00:47:55.136
have six hours in a day.

00:47:55.736 --> 00:47:56.156
How

00:47:56.156 --> 00:47:56.576
good

00:47:56.576 --> 00:47:56.846
must

00:47:56.846 --> 00:47:58.046
this program be

00:47:58.616 --> 00:48:00.116
Tola to take some of those

00:48:00.116 --> 00:48:01.226
six hours, right?

00:48:01.226 --> 00:48:02.156
Because I

00:48:02.156 --> 00:48:02.786
mean those, that's

00:48:02.786 --> 00:48:02.936
the

00:48:02.936 --> 00:48:03.626
most valuable

00:48:03.626 --> 00:48:05.216
resource that schools have

00:48:05.216 --> 00:48:05.246
is

00:48:06.146 --> 00:48:06.626
that

00:48:06.626 --> 00:48:06.956
time

00:48:06.956 --> 00:48:07.166
with the

00:48:07.166 --> 00:48:07.586
kiddos.

00:48:07.586 --> 00:48:07.736
And

00:48:07.736 --> 00:48:07.976
if you're

00:48:07.976 --> 00:48:08.546
gonna take some

00:48:08.546 --> 00:48:08.606
of

00:48:08.606 --> 00:48:08.696
that

00:48:08.696 --> 00:48:08.906
time

00:48:08.906 --> 00:48:09.506
away and turn

00:48:09.506 --> 00:48:09.716
it over

00:48:09.716 --> 00:48:10.316
a screen,

00:48:10.766 --> 00:48:11.006
boy

00:48:11.006 --> 00:48:11.096
it

00:48:11.096 --> 00:48:12.236
better meet your vision.

00:48:12.956 --> 00:48:13.166
It

00:48:13.166 --> 00:48:14.006
better meet

00:48:14.156 --> 00:48:14.366
your

00:48:14.366 --> 00:48:15.656
instructional program.

00:48:16.346 --> 00:48:16.646
Um,

00:48:16.676 --> 00:48:16.946
and then

00:48:16.946 --> 00:48:17.486
better

00:48:18.086 --> 00:48:18.266
be

00:48:18.266 --> 00:48:18.536
doing

00:48:18.536 --> 00:48:19.436
a better job of

00:48:19.436 --> 00:48:19.586
it.

00:48:20.036 --> 00:48:22.316
Um, one last quote.

00:48:22.316 --> 00:48:29.299
I know you wants to jump in on this one as well, but from the same Spanish teacher actually, she was talking about, when

00:48:29.299 --> 00:48:29.779
you're in a

00:48:29.779 --> 00:48:30.199
Spanish

00:48:30.199 --> 00:48:30.619
class,

00:48:31.369 --> 00:48:32.059
um, or any

00:48:32.119 --> 00:48:32.959
language class

00:48:33.229 --> 00:48:33.379
you

00:48:33.379 --> 00:48:34.069
practice,

00:48:34.279 --> 00:48:34.609
right?

00:48:34.757 --> 00:48:35.327
well now

00:48:35.327 --> 00:48:35.597
you can

00:48:35.597 --> 00:48:36.107
practice with

00:48:36.107 --> 00:48:36.197
a

00:48:36.197 --> 00:48:36.527
bot

00:48:36.767 --> 00:48:37.907
instead of practicing with a person.

00:48:38.747 --> 00:48:39.167
And

00:48:39.167 --> 00:48:39.347
what

00:48:39.347 --> 00:48:39.467
the

00:48:39.467 --> 00:48:40.097
teacher was

00:48:40.097 --> 00:48:40.877
talking about

00:48:40.877 --> 00:48:41.057
is

00:48:41.057 --> 00:48:41.327
just

00:48:41.327 --> 00:48:41.927
how,

00:48:42.504 --> 00:48:42.834
much

00:48:42.834 --> 00:48:44.004
more formulaic the

00:48:44.004 --> 00:48:44.604
practice

00:48:44.604 --> 00:48:44.724
is.

00:48:44.724 --> 00:48:44.934
Now,

00:48:44.934 --> 00:48:45.774
in the past, you know,

00:48:45.774 --> 00:48:45.924
you

00:48:45.924 --> 00:48:46.164
would,

00:48:47.334 --> 00:48:47.634
make

00:48:47.634 --> 00:48:48.024
eye to eye

00:48:48.024 --> 00:48:48.864
contact.

00:48:49.194 --> 00:48:49.374
You

00:48:49.374 --> 00:48:49.974
practice

00:48:49.974 --> 00:48:50.334
whatever

00:48:50.334 --> 00:48:50.994
the phrase is.

00:48:50.994 --> 00:48:51.144
You're

00:48:51.144 --> 00:48:51.594
learning,

00:48:51.594 --> 00:48:51.864
you,

00:48:51.864 --> 00:48:52.074
you

00:48:52.074 --> 00:48:52.614
giggle,

00:48:52.614 --> 00:48:53.484
you embarrass yourself

00:48:53.484 --> 00:48:53.544
a

00:48:53.544 --> 00:48:53.724
little

00:48:53.724 --> 00:48:53.934
bit,

00:48:54.354 --> 00:48:54.534
but

00:48:54.534 --> 00:48:55.224
you learn from

00:48:55.224 --> 00:48:55.404
that,

00:48:55.644 --> 00:48:56.004
right?

00:48:56.064 --> 00:48:56.184
You

00:48:56.184 --> 00:48:56.364
learn

00:48:56.364 --> 00:48:56.484
to

00:48:56.484 --> 00:48:56.634
deal

00:48:56.634 --> 00:48:57.294
with embarrassment.

00:48:57.294 --> 00:48:57.534
You learn

00:48:57.534 --> 00:48:57.894
how to.

00:48:58.314 --> 00:48:58.524
Put

00:48:58.524 --> 00:48:59.064
yourself out

00:48:59.064 --> 00:48:59.184
there

00:48:59.184 --> 00:48:59.244
a

00:48:59.244 --> 00:48:59.754
little bit.

00:49:00.144 --> 00:49:00.444
But when

00:49:00.444 --> 00:49:00.534
you.

00:49:01.074 --> 00:49:01.374
getting

00:49:01.374 --> 00:49:02.004
that feedback

00:49:02.004 --> 00:49:02.154
from

00:49:02.154 --> 00:49:02.214
a

00:49:02.214 --> 00:49:11.431
screen, it's only, it's only really assessing were you correct or Um, so I think back to your question of what should superintendent ask themselves?

00:49:11.431 --> 00:49:18.841
I think it's that it's like, what is being lost besides the time, besides does it fit into our vision?

00:49:18.841 --> 00:49:25.176
The, it's a, it's like, what are we losing by, by turning to this program instead of having that human

00:49:26.101 --> 00:49:26.761
Gene Tavernetti: you know, and I, and

00:49:26.761 --> 00:49:30.691
I think the whole vision thing, there's probably people rolling their eyes,

00:49:30.781 --> 00:49:31.081
oh,

00:49:31.081 --> 00:49:31.171
we're

00:49:31.171 --> 00:49:31.441
gonna have

00:49:31.441 --> 00:49:32.191
another vision.

00:49:32.641 --> 00:49:33.601
But, but this is

00:49:33.601 --> 00:49:34.171
really

00:49:34.291 --> 00:49:35.221
an important,

00:49:35.389 --> 00:49:36.679
criteria to make

00:49:36.679 --> 00:49:37.339
those decisions

00:49:37.339 --> 00:49:37.639
because

00:49:37.639 --> 00:49:37.759
it's

00:49:37.759 --> 00:49:38.299
not like

00:49:38.299 --> 00:49:39.349
you're, you're,

00:49:39.379 --> 00:49:39.889
uh,

00:49:39.889 --> 00:49:40.039
a

00:49:40.039 --> 00:49:40.699
new text

00:49:40.759 --> 00:49:44.659
adoption that you have a year to do it, and you have all this time because these people

00:49:44.659 --> 00:49:44.749
are

00:49:44.749 --> 00:49:45.049
coming

00:49:45.049 --> 00:49:48.139
out with these apps, you know, one, one after another.

00:49:48.529 --> 00:49:50.269
So you have to have some sort

00:49:50.269 --> 00:49:51.109
of grounding

00:49:51.199 --> 00:49:53.419
to make these decisions, and you have to

00:49:53.629 --> 00:49:55.189
make them fairly quickly.

00:49:55.969 --> 00:49:57.709
Because you have teachers all that.

00:49:57.769 --> 00:49:58.339
They found

00:49:58.339 --> 00:49:58.789
this one,

00:49:58.819 --> 00:49:59.029
they

00:49:59.029 --> 00:49:59.299
found

00:49:59.299 --> 00:50:00.499
that one, and then

00:50:00.499 --> 00:50:03.439
the one that they gave up that platform, guess what?

00:50:03.439 --> 00:50:03.619
They

00:50:03.619 --> 00:50:05.809
just have a super improved version.

00:50:05.959 --> 00:50:07.489
And so if you aren't grounded

00:50:07.489 --> 00:50:07.759
in

00:50:07.759 --> 00:50:08.149
what

00:50:08.209 --> 00:50:08.449
we

00:50:08.449 --> 00:50:09.349
are all about,

00:50:09.739 --> 00:50:09.889
you

00:50:09.889 --> 00:50:10.069
know,

00:50:10.099 --> 00:50:10.999
instructionally,

00:50:11.329 --> 00:50:11.959
you're gonna just

00:50:11.959 --> 00:50:12.439
flounder

00:50:12.469 --> 00:50:14.329
every time, every time we have one

00:50:14.329 --> 00:50:15.199
of those issues.

00:50:15.499 --> 00:50:16.279
And when

00:50:16.279 --> 00:50:17.059
the decisions

00:50:17.059 --> 00:50:17.779
aren't made

00:50:17.839 --> 00:50:18.229
and they

00:50:18.229 --> 00:50:18.709
aren't

00:50:19.399 --> 00:50:20.029
clear

00:50:20.389 --> 00:50:20.569
to

00:50:20.569 --> 00:50:21.379
the teachers,

00:50:21.769 --> 00:50:21.949
they

00:50:21.949 --> 00:50:22.159
just

00:50:22.159 --> 00:50:22.519
think, oh,

00:50:22.519 --> 00:50:22.819
there's

00:50:22.879 --> 00:50:23.479
capricious.

00:50:23.479 --> 00:50:23.659
They,

00:50:23.779 --> 00:50:24.649
oh, they're anti-tech.

00:50:24.649 --> 00:50:25.969
They're, no, we have to,

00:50:25.999 --> 00:50:26.209
we

00:50:26.209 --> 00:50:26.419
have

00:50:26.419 --> 00:50:26.539
to

00:50:26.539 --> 00:50:27.019
have that

00:50:27.049 --> 00:50:27.559
vision.

00:50:27.709 --> 00:50:28.069
Does this

00:50:28.069 --> 00:50:28.399
match

00:50:28.399 --> 00:50:28.519
the

00:50:28.519 --> 00:50:29.029
vision?

00:50:29.089 --> 00:50:29.299
And

00:50:29.299 --> 00:50:29.629
it has

00:50:29.629 --> 00:50:29.719
to

00:50:29.719 --> 00:50:29.869
be

00:50:29.869 --> 00:50:30.649
expressed

00:50:30.919 --> 00:50:31.279
how

00:50:31.279 --> 00:50:31.669
this,

00:50:31.699 --> 00:50:31.939
this

00:50:31.939 --> 00:50:32.389
decision

00:50:32.389 --> 00:50:32.569
was

00:50:32.659 --> 00:50:32.959
made.

00:50:33.804 --> 00:50:34.094
Frank: Yeah.

00:50:34.099 --> 00:50:34.939
Dr. Smith

00:50:34.939 --> 00:50:35.239
was in

00:50:35.239 --> 00:50:35.599
a, in

00:50:35.599 --> 00:50:35.869
a

00:50:35.869 --> 00:50:36.649
elementary school

00:50:36.649 --> 00:50:37.429
recently, Donna,

00:50:37.451 --> 00:50:37.749
just

00:50:37.749 --> 00:50:37.839
in

00:50:37.839 --> 00:50:37.899
a

00:50:37.899 --> 00:50:38.319
morning

00:50:38.319 --> 00:50:39.444
walk in two hours

00:50:40.299 --> 00:50:40.509
at an

00:50:40.509 --> 00:50:40.899
elementary

00:50:40.899 --> 00:50:41.139
school.

00:50:41.139 --> 00:50:41.559
They, she,

00:50:41.799 --> 00:50:42.189
she

00:50:42.189 --> 00:50:42.819
and the administrator

00:50:42.819 --> 00:50:42.969
that

00:50:43.029 --> 00:50:43.239
she

00:50:43.239 --> 00:50:43.329
was

00:50:43.329 --> 00:50:43.689
walking

00:50:43.689 --> 00:50:43.839
with

00:50:43.839 --> 00:50:45.009
came across 12

00:50:45.909 --> 00:50:46.359
student

00:50:46.359 --> 00:50:46.719
facing

00:50:46.719 --> 00:50:47.164
apps

00:50:47.919 --> 00:50:48.069
that

00:50:48.069 --> 00:50:48.369
hadn't

00:50:48.369 --> 00:50:48.609
made

00:50:48.609 --> 00:50:48.729
their

00:50:48.729 --> 00:50:49.059
way

00:50:49.059 --> 00:50:49.269
through

00:50:49.269 --> 00:50:49.869
any sort

00:50:49.869 --> 00:50:50.799
of district

00:50:51.519 --> 00:50:52.334
filtering system.

00:50:53.409 --> 00:50:53.529
You

00:50:53.529 --> 00:50:53.829
know, these

00:50:53.829 --> 00:50:54.069
are

00:50:54.129 --> 00:50:54.519
apps

00:50:54.519 --> 00:50:54.819
that,

00:50:54.999 --> 00:50:55.179
that

00:50:55.179 --> 00:50:55.509
are, again,

00:50:55.509 --> 00:50:55.599
if

00:50:55.599 --> 00:50:55.869
student

00:50:55.869 --> 00:50:56.169
facing

00:50:56.169 --> 00:50:56.259
or

00:50:56.409 --> 00:50:56.499
are

00:50:56.499 --> 00:50:57.249
taking student time, but

00:50:57.969 --> 00:50:58.299
in some

00:50:58.299 --> 00:50:58.599
cases

00:50:58.599 --> 00:50:58.899
they even

00:50:58.899 --> 00:50:59.439
require

00:50:59.439 --> 00:50:59.679
like

00:50:59.709 --> 00:51:00.069
student

00:51:00.069 --> 00:51:00.399
personal

00:51:00.399 --> 00:51:01.659
information being entered into

00:51:02.739 --> 00:51:03.159
And,

00:51:03.189 --> 00:51:03.759
um,

00:51:04.419 --> 00:51:04.599
the

00:51:04.599 --> 00:51:05.019
administrators

00:51:05.019 --> 00:51:05.709
were shocked.

00:51:06.099 --> 00:51:06.309
But I

00:51:06.309 --> 00:51:06.939
think one,

00:51:06.969 --> 00:51:07.299
one

00:51:07.299 --> 00:51:07.719
truth

00:51:07.719 --> 00:51:08.439
that we've learned

00:51:08.439 --> 00:51:08.919
is,

00:51:09.429 --> 00:51:09.519
you

00:51:09.519 --> 00:51:09.609
know,

00:51:09.609 --> 00:51:09.819
going

00:51:09.819 --> 00:51:09.999
back

00:51:09.999 --> 00:51:10.059
to

00:51:10.059 --> 00:51:10.624
your fictional

00:51:10.629 --> 00:51:11.349
superintendent,

00:51:11.409 --> 00:51:11.709
uh,

00:51:11.709 --> 00:51:12.279
and you asked

00:51:12.279 --> 00:51:12.399
like,

00:51:12.399 --> 00:51:12.549
what

00:51:12.549 --> 00:51:12.819
would you

00:51:12.909 --> 00:51:13.299
advise

00:51:13.299 --> 00:51:13.929
a superintendent

00:51:13.929 --> 00:51:14.139
on

00:51:14.589 --> 00:51:14.919
is, maybe

00:51:14.919 --> 00:51:15.219
the very

00:51:15.219 --> 00:51:15.459
first

00:51:15.459 --> 00:51:15.549
thing

00:51:15.549 --> 00:51:15.639
would

00:51:15.639 --> 00:51:15.849
be,

00:51:16.089 --> 00:51:16.149
I

00:51:16.149 --> 00:51:16.539
want you to

00:51:16.539 --> 00:51:17.319
estimate

00:51:17.379 --> 00:51:17.589
how

00:51:17.589 --> 00:51:17.829
many

00:51:17.829 --> 00:51:18.159
minutes

00:51:18.159 --> 00:51:18.489
we're gonna

00:51:18.489 --> 00:51:18.969
see

00:51:20.289 --> 00:51:20.739
students

00:51:20.739 --> 00:51:20.859
are

00:51:20.859 --> 00:51:21.489
on screens.

00:51:21.729 --> 00:51:21.939
And

00:51:21.969 --> 00:51:22.569
almost

00:51:22.569 --> 00:51:23.229
always,

00:51:23.229 --> 00:51:24.249
it's an underestimate.

00:51:25.269 --> 00:51:25.539
Yeah.

00:51:25.719 --> 00:51:25.929
And

00:51:25.929 --> 00:51:26.019
I.

00:51:26.019 --> 00:51:26.379
think

00:51:26.829 --> 00:51:27.099
If

00:51:27.099 --> 00:51:27.219
you

00:51:27.219 --> 00:51:27.669
follow

00:51:27.669 --> 00:51:27.879
like

00:51:27.879 --> 00:51:28.029
at

00:51:28.029 --> 00:51:28.119
the

00:51:28.119 --> 00:51:28.989
secondary level,

00:51:28.989 --> 00:51:29.559
you know, kids go

00:51:29.559 --> 00:51:30.009
from period

00:51:30.009 --> 00:51:30.099
to

00:51:30.099 --> 00:51:30.429
period,

00:51:30.609 --> 00:51:31.269
follow

00:51:31.269 --> 00:51:31.389
a

00:51:31.389 --> 00:51:32.524
cohort of kids the whole

00:51:33.579 --> 00:51:33.789
then

00:51:33.789 --> 00:51:34.059
you'll get

00:51:34.059 --> 00:51:34.359
a real

00:51:34.359 --> 00:51:35.919
understanding about, oh man,

00:51:36.489 --> 00:51:36.699
it's

00:51:36.699 --> 00:51:36.939
true.

00:51:36.939 --> 00:51:37.659
They're getting this

00:51:37.659 --> 00:51:38.769
in period one, this in

00:51:38.769 --> 00:51:39.099
period

00:51:39.099 --> 00:51:39.489
two, this in

00:51:39.489 --> 00:51:39.759
period

00:51:39.759 --> 00:51:39.969
three.

00:51:40.359 --> 00:51:40.479
And

00:51:40.479 --> 00:51:40.629
some

00:51:40.629 --> 00:51:40.719
of

00:51:40.719 --> 00:51:41.079
the programs

00:51:41.079 --> 00:51:41.529
are good, but

00:51:41.529 --> 00:51:41.619
they

00:51:41.619 --> 00:51:41.799
should

00:51:41.799 --> 00:51:41.889
be

00:51:41.889 --> 00:51:42.909
supplementary, they should

00:51:42.909 --> 00:51:43.149
not

00:51:43.149 --> 00:51:43.509
be

00:51:44.019 --> 00:51:44.829
replacing,

00:51:44.829 --> 00:51:45.099
right.

00:51:45.099 --> 00:51:45.249
They,

00:51:45.249 --> 00:51:45.489
they,

00:51:45.489 --> 00:51:45.639
they

00:51:45.639 --> 00:51:45.939
should be

00:51:45.939 --> 00:51:46.959
augmenting, they should not

00:51:46.959 --> 00:51:47.199
be

00:51:47.529 --> 00:51:48.214
taking the place

00:51:48.314 --> 00:51:48.534
up.

00:51:48.639 --> 00:51:48.819
And

00:51:48.819 --> 00:51:48.909
in

00:51:48.909 --> 00:51:49.149
many

00:51:49.149 --> 00:51:49.719
places

00:51:50.139 --> 00:51:51.639
it's actually become the instruction

00:51:52.571 --> 00:51:52.931
Gene Tavernetti: or

00:51:53.021 --> 00:51:53.141
a

00:51:53.141 --> 00:51:53.921
substitute for

00:51:53.921 --> 00:51:55.721
instruction more accurately, I think.

00:51:55.811 --> 00:51:56.291
Bart: Makes sense.

00:51:57.041 --> 00:52:01.421
If we get this right, what could schools look like five years from now?

00:52:01.952 --> 00:52:02.102
Frank: Well,

00:52:02.102 --> 00:52:02.282
that's

00:52:02.282 --> 00:52:02.792
what started

00:52:02.792 --> 00:52:02.972
this

00:52:02.972 --> 00:52:03.452
whole thing

00:52:03.992 --> 00:52:04.772
was I was

00:52:04.772 --> 00:52:05.162
asking

00:52:05.162 --> 00:52:05.702
people,

00:52:05.792 --> 00:52:05.912
you

00:52:05.912 --> 00:52:06.692
know, in positions like

00:52:06.692 --> 00:52:07.232
yourself,

00:52:07.862 --> 00:52:08.162
what

00:52:08.162 --> 00:52:08.522
does this look

00:52:08.522 --> 00:52:08.732
like in

00:52:08.732 --> 00:52:09.452
2032?

00:52:09.722 --> 00:52:09.932
And

00:52:09.932 --> 00:52:10.862
in some of the responses

00:52:10.862 --> 00:52:10.982
that

00:52:10.982 --> 00:52:11.072
I

00:52:11.072 --> 00:52:11.462
got,

00:52:11.492 --> 00:52:11.792
uh,

00:52:11.942 --> 00:52:12.092
that

00:52:12.092 --> 00:52:12.722
we got were

00:52:12.722 --> 00:52:12.932
like,

00:52:13.487 --> 00:52:14.747
2032, I wanna make it

00:52:14.747 --> 00:52:15.107
to next,

00:52:15.167 --> 00:52:15.497
next

00:52:15.497 --> 00:52:15.917
week,

00:52:15.977 --> 00:52:16.367
you know,

00:52:16.607 --> 00:52:17.177
because

00:52:17.597 --> 00:52:17.777
it

00:52:17.777 --> 00:52:18.197
was tough

00:52:18.197 --> 00:52:18.677
coming outta the

00:52:18.677 --> 00:52:19.097
pandemic,

00:52:19.097 --> 00:52:19.277
right?

00:52:19.277 --> 00:52:19.397
With

00:52:19.397 --> 00:52:19.787
the kiddos

00:52:19.787 --> 00:52:20.027
running

00:52:20.027 --> 00:52:20.177
for

00:52:20.177 --> 00:52:20.267
the

00:52:20.267 --> 00:52:21.167
hills like we were talking

00:52:21.167 --> 00:52:21.467
about,

00:52:21.467 --> 00:52:21.557
and

00:52:21.557 --> 00:52:21.737
the,

00:52:22.097 --> 00:52:22.547
The mental

00:52:22.547 --> 00:52:22.787
health

00:52:22.787 --> 00:52:24.107
concerns and teachers,

00:52:24.617 --> 00:52:24.977
uh,

00:52:24.977 --> 00:52:25.277
worried

00:52:25.277 --> 00:52:25.397
about

00:52:25.397 --> 00:52:25.787
get coming

00:52:25.787 --> 00:52:25.967
back

00:52:25.967 --> 00:52:26.087
as

00:52:26.087 --> 00:52:26.357
well.

00:52:26.987 --> 00:52:27.137
So

00:52:27.137 --> 00:52:27.197
it

00:52:27.197 --> 00:52:27.437
was

00:52:27.437 --> 00:52:27.797
really

00:52:27.797 --> 00:52:28.427
tough in that

00:52:28.427 --> 00:52:28.757
setting.

00:52:28.757 --> 00:52:29.342
20

00:52:29.342 --> 00:52:30.512
22, 23,

00:52:30.512 --> 00:52:31.097
24.

00:52:32.147 --> 00:52:32.297
So

00:52:32.327 --> 00:52:32.447
we're

00:52:32.447 --> 00:52:33.317
asking that,

00:52:34.487 --> 00:52:34.667
but

00:52:34.667 --> 00:52:35.087
I think,

00:52:35.117 --> 00:52:35.297
uh,

00:52:35.297 --> 00:52:35.987
you know, chapter

00:52:35.987 --> 00:52:36.407
six

00:52:36.407 --> 00:52:36.527
and

00:52:36.527 --> 00:52:36.797
then the

00:52:36.797 --> 00:52:37.667
epilogue really

00:52:37.667 --> 00:52:38.057
talk

00:52:38.057 --> 00:52:38.477
about,

00:52:38.567 --> 00:52:39.797
um, what

00:52:39.797 --> 00:52:40.827
they should look like if

00:52:41.657 --> 00:52:41.837
What

00:52:41.837 --> 00:52:42.767
it should look like is

00:52:43.149 --> 00:52:45.549
standards based, intentional personal

00:52:45.549 --> 00:52:46.119
instruction

00:52:46.119 --> 00:52:46.269
in the

00:52:46.269 --> 00:52:46.809
classroom

00:52:46.809 --> 00:52:46.959
with

00:52:46.959 --> 00:52:47.289
durable

00:52:47.289 --> 00:52:47.679
skills

00:52:47.679 --> 00:52:48.459
being built,

00:52:48.887 --> 00:52:49.367
technology

00:52:49.367 --> 00:52:50.327
being used

00:52:51.047 --> 00:52:51.347
in an,

00:52:51.437 --> 00:52:51.557
in

00:52:51.557 --> 00:52:52.277
an augmenting

00:52:52.277 --> 00:52:52.697
manner.

00:52:53.177 --> 00:52:53.957
But outside

00:52:53.957 --> 00:52:54.017
of

00:52:54.017 --> 00:52:54.437
that,

00:52:54.767 --> 00:52:55.127
there's

00:52:55.182 --> 00:52:55.662
connections

00:52:55.672 --> 00:52:56.022
going

00:52:56.022 --> 00:52:56.222
on

00:52:56.222 --> 00:52:56.502
with,

00:52:56.657 --> 00:52:56.717
you

00:52:56.717 --> 00:52:57.617
know, local parks

00:52:57.617 --> 00:52:57.737
and

00:52:57.737 --> 00:52:58.097
rec

00:52:58.697 --> 00:52:58.907
in

00:52:58.907 --> 00:52:59.387
Nicholas

00:52:59.387 --> 00:52:59.837
Bloom,

00:52:59.957 --> 00:53:00.227
uh,

00:53:00.257 --> 00:53:00.947
Nicholas Carr's

00:53:00.947 --> 00:53:01.187
book,

00:53:01.187 --> 00:53:01.457
super

00:53:01.457 --> 00:53:01.697
Bloom, he

00:53:01.697 --> 00:53:01.997
talks

00:53:01.997 --> 00:53:02.357
about

00:53:02.657 --> 00:53:03.737
the decline

00:53:04.247 --> 00:53:06.017
in, in youth,

00:53:06.077 --> 00:53:06.527
Um.

00:53:07.067 --> 00:53:07.667
You know, sports

00:53:07.667 --> 00:53:08.747
league activities,

00:53:08.747 --> 00:53:09.407
scouting

00:53:09.407 --> 00:53:09.767
church

00:53:09.767 --> 00:53:10.427
activities,

00:53:10.787 --> 00:53:11.537
something like

00:53:11.567 --> 00:53:12.467
800 hours a

00:53:12.467 --> 00:53:13.457
year for the average

00:53:13.457 --> 00:53:14.027
teenager

00:53:14.027 --> 00:53:14.147
in

00:53:14.147 --> 00:53:14.507
the last

00:53:14.507 --> 00:53:14.687
10

00:53:14.687 --> 00:53:15.077
years.

00:53:15.407 --> 00:53:16.277
Decline

00:53:16.277 --> 00:53:17.237
in terms of interacting

00:53:17.237 --> 00:53:17.387
with

00:53:17.387 --> 00:53:17.717
others.

00:53:18.017 --> 00:53:18.287
So

00:53:18.287 --> 00:53:18.467
it

00:53:18.467 --> 00:53:18.647
would

00:53:18.647 --> 00:53:19.517
be not just

00:53:19.517 --> 00:53:20.687
what's going on in the school,

00:53:21.617 --> 00:53:22.037
in our

00:53:22.037 --> 00:53:22.967
vision, in

00:53:22.967 --> 00:53:23.117
our

00:53:23.117 --> 00:53:24.407
hope, the school

00:53:24.407 --> 00:53:27.431
becomes a catalyst for a community wide and

00:53:27.431 --> 00:53:27.701
it might

00:53:27.701 --> 00:53:28.151
be asking

00:53:28.151 --> 00:53:28.391
a lot,

00:53:28.391 --> 00:53:28.781
especially

00:53:28.781 --> 00:53:28.961
like

00:53:28.961 --> 00:53:29.231
in really

00:53:29.231 --> 00:53:30.371
large districts and really big

00:53:30.371 --> 00:53:34.156
urban areas, but definitely you can be a hub.

00:53:34.716 --> 00:53:35.016
can be

00:53:35.016 --> 00:53:36.696
a hub where like, you know,

00:53:36.936 --> 00:53:37.506
restaurant

00:53:37.506 --> 00:53:39.636
nights in this community Thursday is no

00:53:39.636 --> 00:53:40.106
screens today.

00:53:41.126 --> 00:53:41.996
Gene Tavernetti: Something else that I think

00:53:41.996 --> 00:53:42.296
is gonna

00:53:42.296 --> 00:53:42.806
be happening

00:53:42.806 --> 00:53:42.986
in,

00:53:42.986 --> 00:53:44.066
in the public schools

00:53:44.066 --> 00:53:46.976
is, um, uh, especially when we're

00:53:46.976 --> 00:53:51.303
asking schools to have an instructional vision there will be

00:53:51.843 --> 00:53:52.143
a lot

00:53:52.143 --> 00:53:53.343
of schools of choice.

00:53:53.842 --> 00:53:54.442
because that's

00:53:54.442 --> 00:53:54.622
one

00:53:54.622 --> 00:53:54.712
of

00:53:54.712 --> 00:53:55.102
the things

00:53:55.107 --> 00:53:55.217
that,

00:53:55.312 --> 00:53:55.492
that

00:53:55.492 --> 00:53:56.452
we have found out

00:53:56.452 --> 00:53:57.052
or that we're

00:53:57.052 --> 00:53:58.552
competing against, is all of

00:53:58.552 --> 00:53:58.732
these

00:53:58.732 --> 00:53:59.002
charter

00:53:59.002 --> 00:53:59.362
schools

00:53:59.362 --> 00:53:59.542
that

00:53:59.542 --> 00:54:02.182
pop up with an emphasis with, with

00:54:02.182 --> 00:54:02.662
something.

00:54:03.022 --> 00:54:03.777
And I,

00:54:03.782 --> 00:54:04.222
I, I

00:54:04.222 --> 00:54:04.642
think that,

00:54:04.642 --> 00:54:07.822
I think that's good that, that we have choice, but

00:54:07.822 --> 00:54:08.092
we have

00:54:08.092 --> 00:54:08.212
to

00:54:08.212 --> 00:54:08.362
be

00:54:08.362 --> 00:54:09.022
sure that

00:54:09.052 --> 00:54:10.042
it's, we're

00:54:10.042 --> 00:54:10.552
protecting

00:54:10.552 --> 00:54:11.062
the kids

00:54:11.062 --> 00:54:11.182
the

00:54:11.182 --> 00:54:11.602
way that,

00:54:11.722 --> 00:54:11.842
the

00:54:11.842 --> 00:54:11.992
way

00:54:11.992 --> 00:54:12.142
that

00:54:12.142 --> 00:54:12.412
Frank

00:54:12.412 --> 00:54:12.712
just,

00:54:12.712 --> 00:54:12.952
just,

00:54:12.952 --> 00:54:13.612
talked about,

00:54:14.315 --> 00:54:15.155
unless,

00:54:15.305 --> 00:54:15.455
you

00:54:15.455 --> 00:54:15.665
know,

00:54:15.750 --> 00:54:17.525
the, the, uh,

00:54:17.585 --> 00:54:18.125
you know, we've

00:54:18.125 --> 00:54:20.945
got these, these alpha schools, alpha School

00:54:20.945 --> 00:54:21.215
now,

00:54:21.215 --> 00:54:21.515
unless

00:54:21.515 --> 00:54:21.665
you

00:54:21.665 --> 00:54:21.995
just

00:54:21.995 --> 00:54:22.415
choose

00:54:22.415 --> 00:54:22.895
that for

00:54:22.895 --> 00:54:23.075
your

00:54:23.135 --> 00:54:23.525
kids,

00:54:23.855 --> 00:54:24.125
but

00:54:24.155 --> 00:54:25.775
we need to, you know,

00:54:26.285 --> 00:54:26.945
be really

00:54:26.945 --> 00:54:27.515
clear about

00:54:27.515 --> 00:54:27.665
who

00:54:27.665 --> 00:54:28.235
we are

00:54:29.030 --> 00:54:29.390
and,

00:54:29.390 --> 00:54:31.010
and who we are is

00:54:31.430 --> 00:54:31.580
the

00:54:31.580 --> 00:54:32.030
way Frank

00:54:32.030 --> 00:54:32.540
described

00:54:32.540 --> 00:54:32.660
it

00:54:32.660 --> 00:54:33.500
right now is

00:54:33.500 --> 00:54:33.950
not,

00:54:34.479 --> 00:54:35.199
a bad place to

00:54:35.199 --> 00:54:35.319
be

00:54:35.319 --> 00:54:36.219
in the marketplace.

00:54:36.369 --> 00:54:36.489
I

00:54:36.489 --> 00:54:36.789
think a

00:54:36.789 --> 00:54:37.059
lot of

00:54:37.059 --> 00:54:37.329
people

00:54:37.329 --> 00:54:37.479
would

00:54:37.479 --> 00:54:37.809
choose

00:54:37.809 --> 00:54:38.109
that,

00:54:38.499 --> 00:54:38.979
but

00:54:39.609 --> 00:54:42.459
like many, like many charters

00:54:42.489 --> 00:54:42.849
or,

00:54:42.909 --> 00:54:43.029
you

00:54:43.029 --> 00:54:43.179
know,

00:54:43.179 --> 00:54:43.359
they

00:54:43.359 --> 00:54:43.749
start

00:54:43.749 --> 00:54:44.169
out

00:54:44.319 --> 00:54:44.859
in a certain

00:54:44.859 --> 00:54:45.189
way

00:54:45.219 --> 00:54:45.399
and

00:54:45.399 --> 00:54:45.579
then

00:54:45.609 --> 00:54:45.879
they

00:54:45.909 --> 00:54:46.599
devolve.

00:54:47.169 --> 00:54:47.649
So

00:54:47.649 --> 00:54:47.739
I

00:54:47.739 --> 00:54:47.949
think

00:54:47.949 --> 00:54:48.039
we

00:54:48.039 --> 00:54:48.249
have to

00:54:48.249 --> 00:54:48.369
be

00:54:48.369 --> 00:54:49.209
very careful

00:54:49.269 --> 00:54:49.899
about,

00:54:49.959 --> 00:54:53.319
uh, about maintaining that, that instructional vision

00:54:53.499 --> 00:54:53.739
so

00:54:53.739 --> 00:54:54.039
that

00:54:54.189 --> 00:54:54.519
people

00:54:54.519 --> 00:54:57.489
have an expectation of, you know, you come to here in this school

00:54:57.489 --> 00:54:58.089
district, this

00:54:58.089 --> 00:54:58.209
is,

00:54:58.239 --> 00:54:58.419
this

00:54:58.419 --> 00:54:58.689
is what

00:54:58.689 --> 00:54:59.319
you're gonna get.

00:54:59.709 --> 00:54:59.979
And,

00:54:59.979 --> 00:55:00.099
you

00:55:00.099 --> 00:55:00.219
know,

00:55:00.219 --> 00:55:00.339
and

00:55:00.339 --> 00:55:00.549
it's

00:55:00.549 --> 00:55:00.879
okay.

00:55:00.879 --> 00:55:01.479
You know, if you

00:55:01.479 --> 00:55:01.689
want

00:55:01.689 --> 00:55:01.839
your

00:55:01.839 --> 00:55:02.109
kids

00:55:02.109 --> 00:55:02.229
to

00:55:02.229 --> 00:55:02.499
be on

00:55:02.499 --> 00:55:02.919
screens

00:55:02.919 --> 00:55:03.069
eight

00:55:03.069 --> 00:55:03.699
hours a day,

00:55:03.789 --> 00:55:05.739
you know, then it's, this place isn't,

00:55:05.889 --> 00:55:06.609
isn't for you.

00:55:06.999 --> 00:55:09.219
But, but I think, you know, because of,

00:55:09.309 --> 00:55:09.459
of

00:55:09.459 --> 00:55:09.729
how

00:55:09.729 --> 00:55:10.209
effective

00:55:10.209 --> 00:55:10.359
we

00:55:10.359 --> 00:55:11.469
know we can be

00:55:11.499 --> 00:55:13.269
with the, with the technology

00:55:13.269 --> 00:55:13.419
to

00:55:13.419 --> 00:55:14.139
augment

00:55:14.649 --> 00:55:15.129
quality

00:55:15.129 --> 00:55:18.454
instruction, I, I think, I think we can create some good product.

00:55:19.504 --> 00:55:19.714
Frank: I

00:55:19.714 --> 00:55:20.044
think,

00:55:20.044 --> 00:55:20.404
um,

00:55:20.764 --> 00:55:21.004
the

00:55:21.004 --> 00:55:21.784
book is really

00:55:21.784 --> 00:55:22.534
augmented,

00:55:22.594 --> 00:55:23.074
um,

00:55:23.104 --> 00:55:23.584
by

00:55:23.614 --> 00:55:24.004
teacher

00:55:24.004 --> 00:55:24.544
interviews

00:55:24.574 --> 00:55:24.724
that

00:55:24.724 --> 00:55:24.844
we

00:55:24.844 --> 00:55:24.854
did.

00:55:24.854 --> 00:55:25.264
We probably

00:55:25.264 --> 00:55:25.414
did

00:55:25.414 --> 00:55:25.684
like three

00:55:25.714 --> 00:55:26.014
dozen

00:55:26.014 --> 00:55:28.504
teacher interviews, uh, k

00:55:28.504 --> 00:55:28.774
through

00:55:28.774 --> 00:55:30.274
college across the

00:55:30.274 --> 00:55:31.054
country,

00:55:31.354 --> 00:55:31.834
small

00:55:31.834 --> 00:55:32.584
districts,

00:55:32.704 --> 00:55:33.154
huge

00:55:33.154 --> 00:55:33.904
districts,

00:55:33.964 --> 00:55:34.264
uh,

00:55:34.264 --> 00:55:35.194
suburban districts,

00:55:35.224 --> 00:55:36.634
urban districts, rural

00:55:36.634 --> 00:55:37.174
districts.

00:55:37.452 --> 00:55:37.662
one

00:55:37.662 --> 00:55:37.722
of

00:55:37.722 --> 00:55:37.932
the things

00:55:37.932 --> 00:55:38.052
we

00:55:38.052 --> 00:55:38.502
noticed

00:55:38.502 --> 00:55:39.042
is that

00:55:39.537 --> 00:55:39.627
a

00:55:39.627 --> 00:55:39.897
lot

00:55:39.897 --> 00:55:39.957
of

00:55:39.957 --> 00:55:40.347
teachers

00:55:40.347 --> 00:55:40.737
talked

00:55:40.737 --> 00:55:41.097
about

00:55:41.397 --> 00:55:42.177
parents starting

00:55:42.177 --> 00:55:43.107
to push back

00:55:44.127 --> 00:55:46.492
On the amount of screen And

00:55:47.127 --> 00:55:47.337
in

00:55:47.337 --> 00:55:47.847
some.

00:55:47.907 --> 00:55:48.627
Districts

00:55:48.627 --> 00:55:48.807
where

00:55:48.807 --> 00:55:48.927
the

00:55:48.927 --> 00:55:49.317
te the

00:55:49.347 --> 00:55:49.617
teachers

00:55:49.617 --> 00:55:49.737
we

00:55:49.737 --> 00:55:50.157
interviewed

00:55:50.157 --> 00:55:50.307
for

00:55:50.307 --> 00:55:52.017
one particular subset of questions,

00:55:52.737 --> 00:55:52.887
we

00:55:52.887 --> 00:55:53.097
needed

00:55:53.097 --> 00:55:53.217
them

00:55:53.217 --> 00:55:54.117
to have been in

00:55:54.117 --> 00:55:54.207
the

00:55:54.207 --> 00:55:55.317
classroom teaching the

00:55:55.317 --> 00:55:55.617
same

00:55:55.617 --> 00:55:56.067
grade

00:55:56.937 --> 00:55:57.807
or close

00:55:58.077 --> 00:55:58.287
in

00:55:58.287 --> 00:55:58.767
a similar

00:55:58.767 --> 00:55:59.937
socioeconomic level,

00:56:00.297 --> 00:56:00.664
20

00:56:00.664 --> 00:56:01.032
14,

00:56:01.032 --> 00:56:01.399
20

00:56:01.399 --> 00:56:02.337
24. 'cause we

00:56:02.337 --> 00:56:02.427
were

00:56:02.427 --> 00:56:02.697
asking

00:56:02.697 --> 00:56:04.567
questions like comparing, comparing,

00:56:04.567 --> 00:56:04.777
you know,

00:56:04.777 --> 00:56:07.207
student, behaviors

00:56:07.207 --> 00:56:07.597
and such.

00:56:08.167 --> 00:56:08.347
and

00:56:08.347 --> 00:56:08.677
what

00:56:08.677 --> 00:56:09.097
we

00:56:09.127 --> 00:56:09.367
heard

00:56:09.367 --> 00:56:09.967
from them is

00:56:09.967 --> 00:56:10.327
that

00:56:10.927 --> 00:56:11.077
the

00:56:11.077 --> 00:56:11.407
same

00:56:11.407 --> 00:56:12.217
parents who in

00:56:12.217 --> 00:56:13.297
2014

00:56:13.957 --> 00:56:14.197
for

00:56:14.197 --> 00:56:14.827
their older

00:56:14.827 --> 00:56:15.217
kids

00:56:15.217 --> 00:56:15.337
were

00:56:15.337 --> 00:56:16.147
advocating, you

00:56:16.147 --> 00:56:16.627
know, more

00:56:16.627 --> 00:56:16.717
and

00:56:16.717 --> 00:56:16.957
more

00:56:16.957 --> 00:56:17.077
and

00:56:17.077 --> 00:56:17.527
more,

00:56:17.737 --> 00:56:18.337
you gotta catch

00:56:18.337 --> 00:56:18.547
up.

00:56:18.547 --> 00:56:18.997
We gotta catch

00:56:19.027 --> 00:56:19.297
up

00:56:19.927 --> 00:56:20.227
by

00:56:20.227 --> 00:56:21.277
2024.

00:56:21.307 --> 00:56:21.877
We're saying

00:56:21.877 --> 00:56:22.027
for

00:56:22.027 --> 00:56:22.507
their younger

00:56:22.507 --> 00:56:22.867
kids,

00:56:23.197 --> 00:56:23.317
let's

00:56:23.317 --> 00:56:23.617
get them

00:56:23.617 --> 00:56:23.857
off

00:56:24.067 --> 00:56:24.457
too much

00:56:24.457 --> 00:56:24.937
screen time.

00:56:25.507 --> 00:56:25.987
Um,

00:56:26.197 --> 00:56:26.347
the

00:56:26.347 --> 00:56:26.557
same

00:56:26.557 --> 00:56:27.097
parents.

00:56:27.457 --> 00:56:27.967
And so

00:56:27.967 --> 00:56:28.597
I think

00:56:28.837 --> 00:56:29.467
that

00:56:30.247 --> 00:56:30.577
there's

00:56:30.577 --> 00:56:31.687
a groundswell

00:56:32.437 --> 00:56:32.617
and

00:56:32.617 --> 00:56:32.947
it isn't

00:56:32.947 --> 00:56:33.607
just the books,

00:56:33.607 --> 00:56:33.877
it isn't

00:56:33.877 --> 00:56:34.057
just

00:56:34.057 --> 00:56:34.327
digital

00:56:34.327 --> 00:56:34.747
delusions.

00:56:34.747 --> 00:56:35.197
It isn't just

00:56:35.197 --> 00:56:35.587
ours.

00:56:35.587 --> 00:56:35.647
It

00:56:35.647 --> 00:56:35.857
isn't

00:56:35.857 --> 00:56:36.037
just

00:56:36.037 --> 00:56:36.127
the

00:56:36.127 --> 00:56:36.517
articles

00:56:36.517 --> 00:56:38.917
in the, in education next and in in New York Times,

00:56:39.367 --> 00:56:39.727
I think

00:56:39.727 --> 00:56:39.877
that

00:56:40.267 --> 00:56:40.687
parents

00:56:40.687 --> 00:56:40.837
are

00:56:40.837 --> 00:56:41.347
seeing

00:56:41.347 --> 00:56:41.587
it.

00:56:41.617 --> 00:56:41.947
Um,

00:56:42.307 --> 00:56:42.457
we

00:56:42.457 --> 00:56:42.547
were

00:56:42.547 --> 00:56:44.347
doing some research just for promotional

00:56:44.347 --> 00:56:44.917
purposes.

00:56:45.247 --> 00:56:45.427
We

00:56:45.427 --> 00:56:45.727
found a

00:56:45.727 --> 00:56:46.327
Facebook

00:56:46.327 --> 00:56:46.807
group.

00:56:47.287 --> 00:56:47.707
that's

00:56:47.707 --> 00:56:47.917
like

00:56:47.917 --> 00:56:48.787
reduced my kids'

00:56:48.787 --> 00:56:49.147
screen

00:56:49.147 --> 00:56:49.597
time,

00:56:49.957 --> 00:56:50.347
something

00:56:50.347 --> 00:56:50.557
like

00:56:50.557 --> 00:56:50.857
that.

00:56:51.307 --> 00:56:52.327
280,000

00:56:52.327 --> 00:56:52.677
members

00:56:53.527 --> 00:56:54.607
of parent members in the

00:56:54.607 --> 00:56:55.147
us.

00:56:55.147 --> 00:56:55.447
I mean, That's

00:56:55.447 --> 00:56:55.507
a

00:56:55.507 --> 00:56:56.767
pretty big group.

00:56:56.917 --> 00:56:57.187
There's

00:56:57.187 --> 00:56:57.427
a,

00:56:57.907 --> 00:56:58.117
there's

00:56:58.117 --> 00:56:58.177
a

00:56:58.177 --> 00:56:58.777
groundswell

00:56:58.777 --> 00:56:59.017
for

00:56:59.017 --> 00:56:59.107
it.

00:56:59.107 --> 00:56:59.317
So I

00:56:59.317 --> 00:56:59.947
think that,

00:56:59.977 --> 00:57:00.377
um,

00:57:01.747 --> 00:57:01.987
like

00:57:01.987 --> 00:57:02.467
Jean said,

00:57:02.467 --> 00:57:02.677
if

00:57:02.677 --> 00:57:03.337
you want

00:57:03.367 --> 00:57:03.577
your

00:57:03.577 --> 00:57:03.967
child

00:57:03.967 --> 00:57:04.087
to

00:57:04.087 --> 00:57:05.407
have that, you're gonna definitely

00:57:05.407 --> 00:57:05.677
have

00:57:05.677 --> 00:57:06.577
the option if you

00:57:06.577 --> 00:57:07.087
want it to be

00:57:07.087 --> 00:57:07.237
on

00:57:07.237 --> 00:57:08.587
a screen for six, eight hours a

00:57:09.227 --> 00:57:09.617
parents

00:57:09.617 --> 00:57:09.857
didn't

00:57:09.857 --> 00:57:10.877
choose this.

00:57:11.297 --> 00:57:11.957
They didn't choose what

00:57:11.957 --> 00:57:12.797
we're seeing right now.

00:57:13.187 --> 00:57:14.447
And that's what we need to walk back,

00:57:15.017 --> 00:57:15.467
is

00:57:15.472 --> 00:57:15.492
that

00:57:15.492 --> 00:57:16.847
if they want that choice, they can

00:57:16.847 --> 00:57:17.117
have

00:57:17.117 --> 00:57:17.267
it.

00:57:17.927 --> 00:57:19.337
But this isn't what we should be doing

00:57:19.337 --> 00:57:20.017
in the mainstream public

00:57:21.212 --> 00:57:21.557
Gene Tavernetti: And I, and I

00:57:21.562 --> 00:57:22.772
think the big

00:57:23.312 --> 00:57:24.062
a big takeaway

00:57:24.062 --> 00:57:25.532
is nobody made this choice.

00:57:26.042 --> 00:57:26.702
It just happened.

00:57:26.759 --> 00:57:27.287
Bart: just happened.

00:57:27.827 --> 00:57:28.007
Yeah.

00:57:28.967 --> 00:57:31.037
I've really appreciated this conversation.

00:57:31.357 --> 00:57:34.297
In closing, I'd like to ask you what gives you hope?

00:57:35.005 --> 00:57:35.575
Gene Tavernetti: you know, there

00:57:35.575 --> 00:57:37.444
is A reaction.

00:57:37.444 --> 00:57:37.984
Unfortunately,

00:57:37.984 --> 00:57:40.399
it's another pendulum swing, from all

00:57:40.399 --> 00:57:40.489
of

00:57:40.489 --> 00:57:41.209
these screens to

00:57:41.209 --> 00:57:41.779
no screen

00:57:41.779 --> 00:57:42.109
time.

00:57:42.469 --> 00:57:42.889
That's

00:57:42.889 --> 00:57:43.219
not,

00:57:43.279 --> 00:57:43.549
that's

00:57:43.549 --> 00:57:43.759
not

00:57:43.759 --> 00:57:44.359
sustainable,

00:57:44.359 --> 00:57:45.319
That's not reality.

00:57:45.319 --> 00:57:47.389
That is not where we're going.

00:57:47.871 --> 00:57:49.101
so I, I, I think

00:57:49.101 --> 00:57:49.191
the

00:57:49.191 --> 00:57:51.231
fact that there are 280,000,

00:57:51.231 --> 00:57:52.491
I think that there are people,

00:57:52.491 --> 00:57:52.611
you

00:57:52.611 --> 00:57:54.261
know, stepping, stepping forward.

00:57:54.741 --> 00:57:55.551
Uh, that

00:57:55.551 --> 00:57:55.791
gives

00:57:55.791 --> 00:57:56.391
me hope.

00:57:56.644 --> 00:57:57.871
what diminishes

00:57:57.871 --> 00:57:58.201
that,

00:57:58.411 --> 00:57:59.491
that hopefulness

00:57:59.491 --> 00:57:59.611
a

00:57:59.611 --> 00:57:59.881
little

00:57:59.881 --> 00:58:00.181
bit

00:58:00.241 --> 00:58:00.451
is

00:58:00.451 --> 00:58:00.661
that

00:58:00.661 --> 00:58:00.811
it's

00:58:00.811 --> 00:58:01.921
always an overreaction.

00:58:02.627 --> 00:58:02.987
you

00:58:02.987 --> 00:58:03.227
know,

00:58:03.257 --> 00:58:03.527
we,

00:58:03.527 --> 00:58:04.277
we can see that

00:58:04.277 --> 00:58:04.607
in,

00:58:04.607 --> 00:58:04.817
in

00:58:04.817 --> 00:58:06.437
many of the things that are going on,

00:58:06.737 --> 00:58:08.417
like in schools of choice right

00:58:08.417 --> 00:58:08.747
now,

00:58:08.837 --> 00:58:12.497
where in states where they could take their kids someplace else.

00:58:12.767 --> 00:58:13.277
The question

00:58:13.277 --> 00:58:13.427
is,

00:58:13.427 --> 00:58:13.577
what

00:58:13.577 --> 00:58:14.027
happens?

00:58:14.057 --> 00:58:14.897
What happens to the

00:58:14.897 --> 00:58:15.227
students

00:58:15.227 --> 00:58:16.247
that, that, have

00:58:16.247 --> 00:58:16.607
special

00:58:16.607 --> 00:58:17.027
needs?

00:58:17.567 --> 00:58:17.747
They

00:58:17.747 --> 00:58:18.377
don't worry about

00:58:18.377 --> 00:58:18.587
them,

00:58:18.947 --> 00:58:19.067
you

00:58:19.067 --> 00:58:19.277
know,

00:58:19.397 --> 00:58:19.577
but

00:58:19.577 --> 00:58:21.137
that's something that, again,

00:58:21.137 --> 00:58:21.317
this

00:58:21.317 --> 00:58:21.407
is

00:58:21.407 --> 00:58:21.647
going

00:58:21.647 --> 00:58:23.207
back to institutional memory.

00:58:23.357 --> 00:58:24.347
This isn't new.

00:58:24.797 --> 00:58:24.947
You

00:58:24.947 --> 00:58:25.097
know,

00:58:25.097 --> 00:58:26.267
we have these,

00:58:26.327 --> 00:58:26.597
these

00:58:26.597 --> 00:58:26.897
things

00:58:26.897 --> 00:58:27.017
in

00:58:27.017 --> 00:58:27.527
place

00:58:27.557 --> 00:58:28.067
because of

00:58:28.067 --> 00:58:28.787
who we

00:58:28.877 --> 00:58:29.207
were

00:58:29.207 --> 00:58:29.807
before

00:58:30.017 --> 00:58:30.287
and we

00:58:30.287 --> 00:58:30.407
need,

00:58:30.407 --> 00:58:30.947
and we needed

00:58:30.947 --> 00:58:31.637
to get better.

00:58:32.147 --> 00:58:32.687
So,

00:58:32.778 --> 00:58:33.048
what

00:58:33.048 --> 00:58:33.468
gives me

00:58:33.468 --> 00:58:33.828
hope?

00:58:34.818 --> 00:58:35.238
More

00:58:35.238 --> 00:58:35.628
people

00:58:35.628 --> 00:58:36.648
thinking about,

00:58:36.708 --> 00:58:37.188
um,

00:58:37.818 --> 00:58:37.938
you

00:58:37.938 --> 00:58:38.058
know,

00:58:38.058 --> 00:58:38.748
there's a better way

00:58:38.748 --> 00:58:38.868
to

00:58:38.868 --> 00:58:39.048
do

00:58:39.048 --> 00:58:39.708
education

00:58:40.470 --> 00:58:40.560
Frank: I

00:58:40.560 --> 00:58:40.770
think

00:58:40.770 --> 00:58:40.980
Jean

00:58:40.980 --> 00:58:41.100
might

00:58:41.100 --> 00:58:41.160
be

00:58:41.160 --> 00:58:41.340
more

00:58:41.340 --> 00:58:41.730
hopeful

00:58:41.730 --> 00:58:41.910
than

00:58:41.910 --> 00:58:42.090
me,

00:58:42.090 --> 00:58:42.360
but,

00:58:42.390 --> 00:58:42.870
um,

00:58:43.305 --> 00:58:43.905
talking about

00:58:43.905 --> 00:58:43.965
the

00:58:43.965 --> 00:58:44.445
institutional

00:58:44.445 --> 00:58:44.835
memory,

00:58:44.835 --> 00:58:44.895
you

00:58:44.895 --> 00:58:45.645
know, there, if

00:58:45.645 --> 00:58:46.365
you go back,

00:58:47.115 --> 00:58:47.355
at

00:58:47.355 --> 00:58:47.775
least as

00:58:47.775 --> 00:58:48.015
far

00:58:48.015 --> 00:58:48.225
back

00:58:48.225 --> 00:58:48.345
as

00:58:48.345 --> 00:58:48.675
Madeline

00:58:48.675 --> 00:58:49.815
Hunter in the sixties and

00:58:49.815 --> 00:58:51.375
seventies, uh,

00:58:51.375 --> 00:58:51.525
the

00:58:51.525 --> 00:58:51.975
Effective

00:58:51.975 --> 00:58:53.055
Schools movement,

00:58:53.085 --> 00:58:54.375
uh, Ronald Edmonds,

00:58:55.035 --> 00:58:56.325
uh, Marzano

00:58:57.295 --> 00:58:57.915
the nineties and

00:58:57.915 --> 00:58:58.035
two

00:58:58.035 --> 00:58:58.785
thousands,

00:58:58.785 --> 00:59:00.195
the, and now his

00:59:00.255 --> 00:59:00.855
evaluation

00:59:00.855 --> 00:59:01.245
center,

00:59:01.785 --> 00:59:02.475
the

00:59:02.775 --> 00:59:03.315
19 90,

00:59:03.315 --> 00:59:03.585
90,

00:59:03.585 --> 00:59:04.165
schools,

00:59:05.088 --> 00:59:05.715
the

00:59:06.075 --> 00:59:06.735
the New Teacher

00:59:06.735 --> 00:59:07.365
Project

00:59:07.425 --> 00:59:07.635
Teach

00:59:07.635 --> 00:59:07.755
for

00:59:07.755 --> 00:59:08.175
America,

00:59:08.175 --> 00:59:08.265
which

00:59:08.265 --> 00:59:10.257
is how I started How

00:59:10.257 --> 00:59:10.287
I

00:59:10.287 --> 00:59:11.097
got into teaching.

00:59:11.483 --> 00:59:11.813
we,

00:59:11.843 --> 00:59:12.083
we

00:59:12.083 --> 00:59:12.443
know

00:59:12.443 --> 00:59:12.593
that

00:59:12.593 --> 00:59:13.793
there's an alternative path

00:59:13.793 --> 00:59:14.243
that is actually

00:59:14.243 --> 00:59:14.813
a very

00:59:15.113 --> 00:59:15.683
good,

00:59:15.920 --> 00:59:17.180
Path and, and, and

00:59:17.180 --> 00:59:17.300
we

00:59:17.300 --> 00:59:17.480
know

00:59:17.480 --> 00:59:17.960
how,

00:59:18.650 --> 00:59:18.890
what

00:59:18.890 --> 00:59:19.580
we should be doing in

00:59:20.630 --> 00:59:20.840
The

00:59:20.840 --> 00:59:21.320
question

00:59:21.320 --> 00:59:21.440
that

00:59:21.440 --> 00:59:21.680
Ronald

00:59:21.860 --> 00:59:23.780
Mond's, uh, the effect of schools movement task is

00:59:23.840 --> 00:59:24.020
how

00:59:24.020 --> 00:59:24.080
do

00:59:24.080 --> 00:59:24.350
we feel

00:59:24.350 --> 00:59:26.481
about the fact that we haven't so

00:59:26.481 --> 00:59:27.021
that's the

00:59:27.021 --> 00:59:27.411
hope.

00:59:27.441 --> 00:59:27.801
The hope

00:59:27.801 --> 00:59:27.921
is

00:59:27.921 --> 00:59:28.161
that

00:59:28.371 --> 00:59:28.701
we

00:59:28.701 --> 00:59:28.941
know

00:59:28.941 --> 00:59:29.751
what we've gotta do.

00:59:30.621 --> 00:59:30.951
My

00:59:30.951 --> 00:59:31.941
concern

00:59:32.381 --> 00:59:32.951
is,

00:59:32.951 --> 00:59:33.251
and this is

00:59:33.251 --> 00:59:33.431
part

00:59:33.431 --> 00:59:33.491
of

00:59:33.491 --> 00:59:33.581
our

00:59:33.581 --> 00:59:33.881
parent

00:59:33.881 --> 00:59:34.361
education

00:59:34.361 --> 00:59:34.601
series,

00:59:34.631 --> 00:59:34.721
' cause

00:59:34.721 --> 00:59:34.871
we

00:59:34.871 --> 00:59:35.021
also

00:59:35.021 --> 00:59:35.411
do parent

00:59:35.411 --> 00:59:35.891
education,

00:59:35.891 --> 00:59:36.041
which

00:59:36.041 --> 00:59:36.851
is actually another piece

00:59:36.851 --> 00:59:36.971
of

00:59:36.971 --> 00:59:37.661
it that I think

00:59:37.721 --> 00:59:38.321
is something we

00:59:38.321 --> 00:59:41.111
do that nobody else we're also working with

00:59:41.111 --> 00:59:41.171
the

00:59:41.171 --> 00:59:41.591
parents,

00:59:42.011 --> 00:59:42.491
is

00:59:42.491 --> 00:59:43.121
that

00:59:44.291 --> 00:59:44.531
I'm

00:59:44.531 --> 00:59:44.621
not

00:59:44.621 --> 00:59:44.801
gonna

00:59:44.801 --> 00:59:45.341
name any.

00:59:45.956 --> 00:59:46.376
companies.

00:59:46.376 --> 00:59:46.436
I

00:59:46.436 --> 00:59:46.526
don't

00:59:46.526 --> 00:59:46.826
wanna get su

00:59:46.856 --> 00:59:46.976
we

00:59:46.976 --> 00:59:47.366
don't want, we

00:59:47.366 --> 00:59:47.456
don't

00:59:47.511 --> 00:59:47.671
want to

00:59:47.676 --> 00:59:47.786
get

00:59:47.786 --> 00:59:48.116
sued.

00:59:48.596 --> 00:59:48.866
But,

00:59:48.866 --> 00:59:48.986
you

00:59:48.986 --> 00:59:49.316
know,

00:59:49.556 --> 00:59:49.856
in,

00:59:49.856 --> 00:59:50.036
uh,

00:59:50.036 --> 00:59:51.266
in the prologue of

00:59:51.266 --> 00:59:51.926
the book where the

00:59:51.926 --> 00:59:52.646
superintendent is

00:59:52.646 --> 00:59:53.516
really pitching, we're

00:59:53.516 --> 00:59:53.666
gonna

00:59:53.666 --> 00:59:54.536
go after this money

00:59:54.986 --> 00:59:55.136
and

00:59:55.136 --> 00:59:55.256
we

00:59:55.256 --> 00:59:55.406
need

00:59:55.406 --> 00:59:55.496
to

00:59:55.496 --> 00:59:55.646
get

00:59:55.646 --> 00:59:55.706
a

00:59:55.706 --> 00:59:55.946
screen

00:59:55.946 --> 00:59:56.246
in front of

00:59:56.246 --> 00:59:56.726
every kid.

00:59:56.726 --> 00:59:57.536
He talks about,

00:59:57.680 --> 00:59:58.250
getting

00:59:58.250 --> 00:59:58.790
a particular

00:59:58.790 --> 00:59:59.060
type

00:59:59.060 --> 00:59:59.270
of

00:59:59.480 --> 01:00:00.110
laptop

01:00:00.110 --> 01:00:02.420
into every child's hand because

01:00:02.480 --> 01:00:02.930
the

01:00:03.050 --> 01:00:03.410
digital

01:00:03.410 --> 01:00:04.700
companies are being great social

01:00:04.700 --> 01:00:05.360
citizens.

01:00:05.780 --> 01:00:05.960
They're

01:00:05.960 --> 01:00:07.340
helping the kids get

01:00:07.340 --> 01:00:07.820
access

01:00:07.820 --> 01:00:08.030
to the

01:00:08.030 --> 01:00:08.570
screens.

01:00:08.900 --> 01:00:09.110
They're

01:00:09.110 --> 01:00:09.470
helping

01:00:09.470 --> 01:00:09.920
write

01:00:09.920 --> 01:00:10.160
the,

01:00:10.160 --> 01:00:10.670
the common

01:00:10.670 --> 01:00:11.150
core

01:00:11.150 --> 01:00:12.680
assessments, you know, smarter balance in

01:00:12.680 --> 01:00:13.070
the park.

01:00:13.388 --> 01:00:13.778
and

01:00:13.778 --> 01:00:14.138
later

01:00:14.138 --> 01:00:14.258
on

01:00:14.258 --> 01:00:14.378
we

01:00:14.378 --> 01:00:14.618
found

01:00:14.618 --> 01:00:14.918
out

01:00:15.368 --> 01:00:15.518
that

01:00:15.518 --> 01:00:15.728
some of

01:00:15.728 --> 01:00:15.878
those

01:00:15.878 --> 01:00:16.028
same

01:00:16.028 --> 01:00:16.718
companies

01:00:16.898 --> 01:00:17.078
were

01:00:17.078 --> 01:00:18.248
data mining those

01:00:18.248 --> 01:00:18.848
kids

01:00:19.478 --> 01:00:19.688
as

01:00:19.688 --> 01:00:20.648
young as four years

01:00:20.648 --> 01:00:21.068
old.

01:00:21.728 --> 01:00:22.358
So

01:00:22.358 --> 01:00:22.748
I, what

01:00:22.748 --> 01:00:22.988
gives

01:00:22.988 --> 01:00:23.138
me

01:00:23.138 --> 01:00:25.118
pause is that,

01:00:25.658 --> 01:00:26.138
that

01:00:26.678 --> 01:00:26.948
there's

01:00:26.948 --> 01:00:27.368
a villain

01:00:27.368 --> 01:00:27.488
on

01:00:27.488 --> 01:00:27.578
the

01:00:27.578 --> 01:00:27.758
other

01:00:28.568 --> 01:00:28.688
You

01:00:28.688 --> 01:00:28.808
know,

01:00:28.808 --> 01:00:28.868
it

01:00:28.868 --> 01:00:29.198
wasn't

01:00:29.198 --> 01:00:29.258
a

01:00:29.258 --> 01:00:29.678
conscious

01:00:29.678 --> 01:00:29.978
choice

01:00:29.978 --> 01:00:30.128
by

01:00:30.128 --> 01:00:31.868
schools to go down this path.

01:00:32.678 --> 01:00:33.038
It was

01:00:33.038 --> 01:00:33.128
this

01:00:33.128 --> 01:00:33.608
broader

01:00:33.608 --> 01:00:34.658
digital immersion,

01:00:35.048 --> 01:00:35.288
but

01:00:35.288 --> 01:00:35.708
there was

01:00:35.708 --> 01:00:35.768
a

01:00:35.768 --> 01:00:36.248
conscious

01:00:36.248 --> 01:00:36.548
choice.

01:00:36.548 --> 01:00:37.028
So folks

01:00:37.028 --> 01:00:37.148
who

01:00:37.148 --> 01:00:37.418
are

01:00:37.448 --> 01:00:37.838
data

01:00:37.868 --> 01:00:38.198
mining,

01:00:38.198 --> 01:00:38.528
four

01:00:38.528 --> 01:00:39.218
year olds,

01:00:39.218 --> 01:00:39.698
five year

01:00:39.698 --> 01:00:40.028
olds.

01:00:40.433 --> 01:00:40.883
They

01:00:41.243 --> 01:00:41.393
who

01:00:41.393 --> 01:00:42.083
were giving

01:00:42.473 --> 01:00:42.893
free

01:00:42.893 --> 01:00:43.343
email

01:00:43.343 --> 01:00:43.733
access,

01:00:43.733 --> 01:00:43.913
let's

01:00:43.913 --> 01:00:44.303
say.

01:00:44.483 --> 01:00:44.693
But

01:00:44.693 --> 01:00:45.533
then data mining

01:00:45.533 --> 01:00:45.683
what

01:00:45.683 --> 01:00:45.773
the

01:00:45.773 --> 01:00:46.043
kids

01:00:46.043 --> 01:00:46.163
were

01:00:46.163 --> 01:00:46.643
writing so

01:00:46.643 --> 01:00:46.763
that

01:00:46.763 --> 01:00:46.853
they

01:00:46.853 --> 01:00:47.723
can market to them a

01:00:47.723 --> 01:00:48.053
few years

01:00:48.053 --> 01:00:48.503
later.

01:00:49.163 --> 01:00:49.373
There

01:00:49.373 --> 01:00:50.033
definitely is a

01:00:50.033 --> 01:00:52.838
villain in this, And that's what gives me but

01:00:53.378 --> 01:00:54.248
hopefully this

01:00:54.248 --> 01:00:57.458
groundswell, you know, the senate hearings that we're seeing now,

01:00:57.758 --> 01:00:57.968
there's

01:00:57.968 --> 01:00:58.178
gonna

01:00:58.178 --> 01:00:58.958
be enough of a.

01:00:59.765 --> 01:01:00.335
not a not a

01:01:00.335 --> 01:01:00.995
revolt, but,

01:01:01.325 --> 01:01:01.625
but

01:01:01.625 --> 01:01:02.255
a pushback.

01:01:02.705 --> 01:01:04.775
And I do hope that to Jean's

01:01:04.775 --> 01:01:05.135
point

01:01:05.405 --> 01:01:06.815
that we just don't go so far the

01:01:06.815 --> 01:01:08.465
other way that then we

01:01:08.465 --> 01:01:08.645
then

01:01:08.645 --> 01:01:09.215
lose,

01:01:09.275 --> 01:01:09.395
you

01:01:09.395 --> 01:01:09.575
know,

01:01:09.815 --> 01:01:09.965
it

01:01:09.965 --> 01:01:10.385
just becomes

01:01:10.385 --> 01:01:11.020
that pendulum again.

01:01:11.544 --> 01:01:11.694
Gene Tavernetti: I

01:01:11.694 --> 01:01:11.934
think

01:01:11.934 --> 01:01:12.564
just the

01:01:12.654 --> 01:01:12.834
of

01:01:12.834 --> 01:01:13.194
who we

01:01:13.194 --> 01:01:13.644
are

01:01:14.004 --> 01:01:14.634
in the United

01:01:14.634 --> 01:01:15.054
States,

01:01:15.384 --> 01:01:15.534
you

01:01:15.534 --> 01:01:15.954
can't tell

01:01:15.954 --> 01:01:16.074
me

01:01:16.074 --> 01:01:16.464
what to do.

01:01:17.124 --> 01:01:17.724
And then you

01:01:17.724 --> 01:01:18.174
have,

01:01:18.264 --> 01:01:19.344
uh, you know,

01:01:19.344 --> 01:01:19.674
I don't know

01:01:19.674 --> 01:01:22.494
how many school districts you worked in a, in a small school

01:01:22.494 --> 01:01:23.004
district

01:01:23.004 --> 01:01:23.784
For a while

01:01:23.844 --> 01:01:24.144
and

01:01:24.144 --> 01:01:24.234
they

01:01:24.234 --> 01:01:24.414
had

01:01:24.414 --> 01:01:24.474
a

01:01:24.474 --> 01:01:24.774
school

01:01:24.774 --> 01:01:25.254
board

01:01:25.434 --> 01:01:25.644
and

01:01:25.644 --> 01:01:26.154
they didn't

01:01:26.154 --> 01:01:26.334
want

01:01:26.334 --> 01:01:27.774
anybody telling them what to do.

01:01:28.014 --> 01:01:28.764
And so

01:01:28.794 --> 01:01:29.514
it, it, it's,

01:01:29.574 --> 01:01:29.874
it's

01:01:29.874 --> 01:01:30.504
difficult

01:01:30.714 --> 01:01:30.954
who

01:01:30.954 --> 01:01:31.164
we

01:01:31.164 --> 01:01:31.554
are,

01:01:32.184 --> 01:01:32.484
who

01:01:32.484 --> 01:01:32.664
we

01:01:32.664 --> 01:01:33.174
are

01:01:33.204 --> 01:01:33.444
is

01:01:33.444 --> 01:01:34.044
our strength

01:01:34.074 --> 01:01:34.404
and who

01:01:34.404 --> 01:01:34.584
we

01:01:34.584 --> 01:01:34.854
are

01:01:34.884 --> 01:01:35.184
is,

01:01:35.184 --> 01:01:35.934
uh, makes

01:01:35.964 --> 01:01:36.624
anything

01:01:37.014 --> 01:01:37.674
changing

01:01:37.704 --> 01:01:38.514
education

01:01:38.544 --> 01:01:39.174
difficult.

01:01:40.494 --> 01:01:40.794
Bart: Yes.

01:01:42.174 --> 01:01:43.524
Well, thank you both so much.

01:01:44.274 --> 01:01:44.844
Gene Tavernetti: Thank you.

01:01:45.834 --> 01:01:46.374
Frank: Thank you Bur yeah.

01:01:46.704 --> 01:01:46.974
Gene Tavernetti: yeah.

01:01:48.386 --> 01:01:51.026
If you're enjoying these podcasts, tell a friend.

01:01:51.326 --> 01:01:56.896
Also, please leave a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen.

01:01:57.586 --> 01:02:07.666
You can follow me on BlueSky at gTabernetti, on Twitter, x at gTabernetti, and you can learn more about me and the work I do at my website, BlueSky.

01:02:08.076 --> 01:02:08.506
Tesscg.

01:02:09.496 --> 01:02:24.866
com, that's T E S S C G dot com, where you will also find information about ordering my books, Teach Fast, Focus Adaptable Structure Teaching, and Maximizing the Impact of Coaching Cycles.