Intro
Welcome to Behaviorally Speaking: Leadership for Change-Makers—where leadership is grounded in behavior, guided by dignity, and designed for change. I'm your host, Dr. Esther Bubb. Let's dive into today's episode.
Interview
1
00:00:02.940 --> 00:00:13.510
Dr. Esther Bubb: Hi, Sonia, thank you so much for joining today. It is so good to see you after so many years. I mean, I know we've been in touch throughout the years, but in terms of seeing you and having a conversation, it's been quite a minute.
2
00:00:13.510 --> 00:00:25.109
Dr. Esther Bubb: And I'm so grateful to you for making the time for me today, so I'm extremely grateful, because you're home in Africa, Sierra Leone, West Africa. So, how are you, and tell us a little bit about how you're doing in Africa.
3
00:00:28.330 --> 00:00:46.320
Sonia ----: Well, I'm good. I'm, as Esther has already introduced me. I'm currently home with my family, so as you can see, I'm happy, I'm refreshed, ready to get back to the U.S. to get into the line of work that I always do.
4
00:00:46.320 --> 00:00:49.900
Sonia ----: That I do love, but it's just sometimes it can be very draining.
5
00:00:49.900 --> 00:00:54.350
Sonia ----: I'm here, just came from church, still in my church clothes, and…
6
00:00:54.350 --> 00:00:54.750
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
7
00:00:55.840 --> 00:01:12.610
Dr. Esther Bubb: Wonderful. Thank you so much, Sonia. So, let's start the conversation off just talking about your origin, right, and your leadership pathways. So, in your role, Sonia, in constituent services leadership, right, what does leadership actually look like in action, Sonia, on a day-to-day basis for you?
8
00:01:14.240 --> 00:01:27.670
Sonia ----: responding to a constituent or a resident, when they are in need. One of the… one of the most interesting things I had to do, I've had to do in this job, I had a lady who…
9
00:01:27.910 --> 00:01:31.990
Sonia ----: Needed her husband's death certificate, right?
10
00:01:31.990 --> 00:01:48.189
Sonia ----: She had reached out to everyone, and she couldn't figure out where to get it or how to get it. And one of the reasons why she couldn't get it, because they had to do a death investigation. So, here it is in a job. Constituent service doesn't sound like
11
00:01:48.190 --> 00:01:52.600
Sonia ----: You… you touch into the lives of, you know, a funeral, right?
12
00:01:52.790 --> 00:01:53.140
Dr. Esther Bubb: of this.
13
00:01:53.140 --> 00:02:02.270
Sonia ----: This woman was trying to get her husband's life insurance policy so she could be able to bury him, so she could be able to, you know, close out whatever chapter he…
14
00:02:02.710 --> 00:02:12.110
Sonia ----: And she couldn't get it, so here it is I am, getting on the phone, calling the state medical examiner to say, what's going on? You know.
15
00:02:12.110 --> 00:02:12.729
Dr. Esther Bubb: It's this lady.
16
00:02:12.730 --> 00:02:31.210
Sonia ----: because that's just because she needs to do the rest of her stuff. So, constituent service for me in a leadership role means that you are always on the call, and always willing to step in for people who may not know what they need to do, but they know they need somebody to step in.
17
00:02:32.160 --> 00:02:32.750
Sonia ----: So…
18
00:02:32.750 --> 00:02:33.500
Dr. Esther Bubb: Wonderful.
19
00:02:33.690 --> 00:02:47.100
Dr. Esther Bubb: Thank you. It seems very far-reaching. The story you shared about the death certificate, that's just something that wouldn't have come to my mind, Tony, I'm being honest, you know, thinking of constituent services, but it makes sense, right? Serving the constituents and supporting them with their needs, so…
20
00:02:47.100 --> 00:02:54.490
Dr. Esther Bubb: Having said all of that, it seems very interesting and very fulfilling at the same time, right, Sonia? So, what drew you to this work?
21
00:02:54.490 --> 00:02:59.830
Dr. Esther Bubb: And what behaviors or mindsets have helped you stay committed, even when the work gets hard?
22
00:03:03.160 --> 00:03:10.010
Sonia ----: So, when we… when we last saw in college, right, my plan was to become a medical doctor.
23
00:03:10.370 --> 00:03:20.099
Sonia ----: I was a chemistry major, finished, and I was ready to go and serve the world, right? You were. And when I was in school, I had to
24
00:03:20.460 --> 00:03:31.599
Sonia ----: I had this job that I was doing CNA, or Certified Nursing Assistant, and I realized that that wasn't my job. That wasn't what I needed to do, because
25
00:03:31.750 --> 00:03:43.559
Sonia ----: unfortunately, I had 7 patients during the summer, and all of them died, right? And I found myself taking myself off from work, and going to funerals, right?
26
00:03:43.560 --> 00:03:43.960
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
27
00:03:43.960 --> 00:04:01.169
Sonia ----: look at a doctor that had a practice, let's, unfortunately, a few of your patients died, and you had to take, close your office while you still need to pay your bills, and go, and go to funeral service. So I realized at the onset that, medical school wasn't for me.
28
00:04:01.360 --> 00:04:07.550
Sonia ----: And so then I was like, okay, let me figure out what I need to do. And somehow, I told myself.
29
00:04:07.590 --> 00:04:27.130
Sonia ----: and customer service, right? Serving people because, you know, I want to… I want to help people when… as best as I can when they need help. And customer service was the first role to me into constituent service. And then constituent service just came because I like politics, I like advocating on behalf of people.
30
00:04:27.130 --> 00:04:27.500
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
31
00:04:27.630 --> 00:04:33.159
Sonia ----: And I just like to talk to people in general. So, like, it's the best of both worlds.
32
00:04:33.430 --> 00:04:40.719
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, yeah, I love that. Thank you for sharing that story. Looking back on your journey, you know, from growing up in Sierra Leone to
33
00:04:40.760 --> 00:04:54.509
Dr. Esther Bubb: at your life here, our lives at Cheney, right? And then everything in your life thereafter. What would you say are the key experiences, Sonia, or influences that most shape how you lead, how you respond, and how you serve?
34
00:04:57.330 --> 00:04:59.680
Sonia ----: One of two people.
35
00:04:59.940 --> 00:05:10.190
Sonia ----: One is my grandmother, right? My grandmother was a very much community person, and she was always given. She never…
36
00:05:10.580 --> 00:05:26.680
Sonia ----: Right? She was always out there. There were people who, they say, were… she said were my cousins and family members. When you research, they're not even close to your family tree, but she was always out there giving. And then I look at my mom.
37
00:05:26.940 --> 00:05:27.310
Dr. Esther Bubb: because.
38
00:05:27.310 --> 00:05:31.549
Sonia ----: Now we're faced with a crisis where, as immigrants, right.
39
00:05:31.550 --> 00:05:31.980
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
40
00:05:31.980 --> 00:05:40.589
Sonia ----: faced with being told we don't belong in a country that once wrapped us around, and with an embrace, right?
41
00:05:40.700 --> 00:05:49.309
Sonia ----: Yeah. And so, I look at my mom's experience, and I said, well, when she came, she didn't have anything, and she was still faced with
42
00:05:49.310 --> 00:06:00.899
Sonia ----: trying to provide for her family, trying to be there for her siblings that are back home, right? So I think about her and say, well, you know, if my mom could do it.
43
00:06:01.030 --> 00:06:09.310
Sonia ----: she left her country, came to America, and she's there serving. She was there, she was an Iron Lady, she was an Iron Lady.
44
00:06:09.310 --> 00:06:16.159
Sonia ----: I can do it, but I look at her experience where she shared with me that she was homeless, unhoused.
45
00:06:16.160 --> 00:06:39.319
Sonia ----: That she came and she was undocumented, that she would, you know, she couldn't figure it out because she was the only person in America. She didn't have family, she didn't have anything else. And so when I… when I go out and serve in my role as constituent service, I think about what my mom experienced and don't want other people to experience the same thing. So you'll find me advocating
46
00:06:39.320 --> 00:06:41.660
Sonia ----: for, immigration.
47
00:06:41.690 --> 00:06:46.449
Sonia ----: Which people will say, why? Because, you know, we need to talk.
48
00:06:47.070 --> 00:06:53.580
Sonia ----: Those of us that have a voice, we need to talk for those who are being marginalized. We need to talk for those who
49
00:06:53.910 --> 00:07:06.139
Sonia ----: may not understand what's going on. They know that America's where they belong, because unfortunately, we no longer belong in the country we once came from, right?
50
00:07:06.140 --> 00:07:06.550
Dr. Esther Bubb: Right.
51
00:07:06.550 --> 00:07:07.480
Sonia ----: American for Harvard.
52
00:07:07.480 --> 00:07:07.920
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
53
00:07:08.250 --> 00:07:15.160
Sonia ----: Yeah. And we don't quite fit in any of those molds, right? So my advocacy is for people who
54
00:07:15.610 --> 00:07:20.800
Sonia ----: don't feel like they quite belong. It could be that single mother that, you know, doesn't know what.
55
00:07:20.800 --> 00:07:21.160
Dr. Esther Bubb: She's…
56
00:07:21.160 --> 00:07:38.699
Sonia ----: in her role as a mother, or you could be that father, that man who's experiencing mental health illness that doesn't know what to do. So, you know, the efficacy is just to be able to talk for someone who needs you, but don't know what they need.
57
00:07:38.740 --> 00:07:42.979
Sonia ----: Right? Yeah. You know, I know I need to go to sleep. I know I go to sleep?
58
00:07:43.340 --> 00:07:46.240
Sonia ----: Yeah. Do I go… you understand? Like, you understand?
59
00:07:46.240 --> 00:07:46.630
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
60
00:07:46.630 --> 00:07:48.840
Sonia ----: Yes. But I'm sleepy.
61
00:07:49.470 --> 00:08:08.739
Sonia ----: But I can't… I can't quite tell you I'm sleepy, right? And I'm just acting up, so it's like, you need to, like, slowly walk them through that process, whether it's trying to find them jobs, whether it's trying to make sure that they find homes, whether it's even trying to advocate for those mothers who
62
00:08:08.920 --> 00:08:16.049
Sonia ----: their food stamps is being cut. You know, there's different ways, but it's just making sure you put yourself in that position and talk
63
00:08:16.390 --> 00:08:17.010
Sonia ----: damn.
64
00:08:17.300 --> 00:08:17.990
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
65
00:08:17.990 --> 00:08:40.609
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, thank you for sharing that, Sonia. It's a lot in everything you said that I could relate to, you know, thinking of moments of crisis, moments of crying, moments of frustration, moments of not having, moments of wondering what's next, you know? Moments of wondering, are my days numbered? So I can totally relate to that, and I truly appreciate you sharing that, you know, especially as an immigrant myself, so…
66
00:08:40.880 --> 00:08:48.639
Dr. Esther Bubb: when in saying all of that, Sonia, and thinking of moments of crisis, but thinking of the need to communicate, and still maintaining trust, right?
67
00:08:48.650 --> 00:09:05.789
Dr. Esther Bubb: When people come to you, when they're frustrated, or they're in crisis, or they're down, right, or they're in tears, how do you communicate, Sonia, with compassion, but still while maintaining clear boundaries, right, given your role, and what behaviors do you engage in that makes that possible?
68
00:09:07.750 --> 00:09:22.770
Sonia ----: You have to be personable, right? Every person wants to be… relate… wants to be able to relate to you. So, if I come, and… and a lot of people understand this about me, is that
69
00:09:22.890 --> 00:09:40.959
Sonia ----: I treat you like I want to be treated, right? So, I come, I listen, I don't judge, I offer a shoulder, I… sometimes I go above and beyond. I go with you to… like, I'll give you an example. Before coming to Africa, I had a resident who…
70
00:09:41.080 --> 00:09:45.349
Sonia ----: Needed to go to, to the hospital, right?
71
00:09:45.350 --> 00:09:45.710
Dr. Esther Bubb: Okay.
72
00:09:45.710 --> 00:09:48.400
Sonia ----: She doesn't quite have a relationship with her kids.
73
00:09:48.430 --> 00:10:06.399
Sonia ----: And she's someone who reaches out to me quite often, and I hadn't heard from her. So I reached out to her, she said, oh, Sonia, I'm here, my back is hurting, but I don't know what to do, right? She said, but I don't want you to come, I don't want you to do anything. So I said, okay, well, I'll give you a week.
74
00:10:06.510 --> 00:10:09.879
Sonia ----: Right? Gabriel, we… I didn't hear anything. I called.
75
00:10:09.890 --> 00:10:17.989
Sonia ----: Right? I went to her apartment, and I took her to where she needed to go. So it's like putting yourself in that position that
76
00:10:17.990 --> 00:10:30.960
Sonia ----: You know, it's not about numbers, it's about a person that is a human, that has a heartbeat, that brings you. You know, that woman is so thankful, she tells everyone, Sonia's my daughter, she tells…
77
00:10:30.960 --> 00:10:38.859
Sonia ----: you know, I've only known this lady about 3 years, and she would tell me everything about her life, right? But it's just being able to connect
78
00:10:38.870 --> 00:10:45.799
Sonia ----: Find something with a human that you can connect. It's not about me getting a paycheck, because beyond a paycheck.
79
00:10:45.930 --> 00:11:01.070
Sonia ----: you know, when somebody suffers, we all suffer. So I take it from that perspective. You know, I communicate, I talk to them, you know, I go out and hang out with them. Sometimes, you know, we may not have time, but hey.
80
00:11:01.070 --> 00:11:01.600
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
81
00:11:01.600 --> 00:11:02.780
Sonia ----: Let's make something.
82
00:11:02.980 --> 00:11:20.929
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, yeah, no, I appreciate that, especially, your focus on being personable, your focus on the relationship, right? Your focus on seeing them as a human, as a person, and I 100% agree with that, but I can tell you, Sonia, when it's challenging for me, and obviously it's something I'm working on, is when…
83
00:11:21.050 --> 00:11:23.520
Dr. Esther Bubb: You feel like someone is doing something to you.
84
00:11:23.710 --> 00:11:37.509
Dr. Esther Bubb: to wrong you, or that… you know what I'm saying? So, like, still seeing them as a person, as a human, and they're experiencing what they're experiencing, and reacting the way they're reacting because of what they're experiencing. So that's… that's tough, but it's… it's something I'm working through, right? So…
85
00:11:37.510 --> 00:11:57.309
Dr. Esther Bubb: Saying all of that, Sonia, and thinking of, like, behaviors we can change, right? Where do you see, the everyday behaviors of individuals or teams driving success or failure? And I feel like the example you gave is a good example of, you know, how your systems can be successful, but what are some behaviors, in your opinion, that drive success or failure in systems?
86
00:12:00.050 --> 00:12:05.059
Sonia ----: I think, we can be, like, as you were talking,
87
00:12:05.410 --> 00:12:16.369
Sonia ----: we have to learn not to take things personal, right? We can be personable, but not take things personal, because you gotta understand that someone in crisis
88
00:12:16.400 --> 00:12:28.339
Sonia ----: may behave differently than someone who is having a fun time, right? So if someone is there cussing you out, you know, expressing their frustration,
89
00:12:28.380 --> 00:12:41.040
Sonia ----: you just listen. I don't take it personal. I… I try to figure out, okay, this could be me, right? I remember I used to work in the tax office, and people will call, and I… and I tell people.
90
00:12:41.190 --> 00:12:45.239
Sonia ----: every December, like, now I don't really talk on the phone, right?
91
00:12:45.560 --> 00:12:57.820
Sonia ----: December, everyone will go and file their tax return, and in December, after Christmas, everyone have crisis, right? My grandmother's mother died, somebody just got robbed, somebody got sucked.
92
00:12:57.820 --> 00:13:13.779
Sonia ----: And I had to start thinking, these people, you know, maybe they don't understand what the process is, you know, in terms of filing your taxes, what it needs to be done, how long it's going to take. They just know that they want money, and they want it now, right?
93
00:13:13.780 --> 00:13:14.609
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah,
94
00:13:14.610 --> 00:13:28.990
Sonia ----: And so, you know, learning that people, like, there are times that… and you can say, you can see it, there are times where people really are actually in crisis, and then there are times that they go into crisis because
95
00:13:28.990 --> 00:13:40.420
Sonia ----: they feel like they need something at that time, right? For example, after Christmas, they spent all their money, right? And now they think their tax returns are coming 1st of January, right?
96
00:13:40.750 --> 00:13:54.559
Sonia ----: pay off the bills, but it doesn't happen, and so you have to teach people that they have to be patient with the process, right? Yeah. That you're listening to them, and that you, like, let's say you give them timeline. If someone comes to me and say.
97
00:13:54.960 --> 00:14:11.200
Sonia ----: I need something from you. I would say, okay, maybe in a week or two weeks, let me see what I can do. But then you have to do a check-in with them, right? Because when people know that you still care about what they told you about, and you're doing that check-in, even if you can't solve the problem.
98
00:14:11.270 --> 00:14:24.300
Sonia ----: and you're checking in with them, they're like, oh, okay, okay, she cares. Okay, she cares. And then, when you do the check-in, you have to say, okay, I remember I told you I was gonna do this, this is the steps I've taken.
99
00:14:24.410 --> 00:14:42.839
Sonia ----: To try to alleviate what your problem is. And unfortunately, I'm still at a standstill. Let me go think about it, maybe give me another week. And that's where we, like I said, you have to put yourself in that person's position, right? Because if I'm in need, I want it solved now, right?
100
00:14:42.840 --> 00:14:43.240
Dr. Esther Bubb: Right.
101
00:14:43.240 --> 00:14:53.690
Sonia ----: If Esther has that means of solving, I would be frustrated with you, because if you didn't do a check-in with me, you didn't call me, you don't look like you're concerned.
102
00:14:53.750 --> 00:15:08.669
Sonia ----: I will be mad at you, right? Even though we have to understand there are red tapes, you can do but so much, right? There are other people that need to help you push fully forward, but if you start telling people, okay, I've done this, I've done that.
103
00:15:08.670 --> 00:15:14.499
Sonia ----: Then it becomes less of an issue, because people, all they want to do is hear somebody talk.
104
00:15:15.090 --> 00:15:25.360
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, yeah, wonderful. Thank you for sharing that. So, the check-ins, that's a takeaway for me from, you know, what behaviors people can engage in that lead to success.
105
00:15:25.450 --> 00:15:37.389
Dr. Esther Bubb: And I think for me, it's also taking that step of, like, putting in my calendar, whatever, right? So I get that reminder to make sure it actually happens. So… so I like that you shared that. I think the check-in is very important, and you use the word care. It shows people that you care.
106
00:15:37.390 --> 00:15:38.100
Sonia ----: Because at least.
107
00:15:38.100 --> 00:15:45.580
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, especially in our world, Sonia, where it's… it's around the clock, right? It always goes, and at some point, we have… Yeah.
108
00:15:45.580 --> 00:15:56.319
Sonia ----: But we are, like, for example, you and I, we find ourselves in that unique position, right, where, you know, people back home expect you to…
109
00:15:56.320 --> 00:15:56.880
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
110
00:15:56.880 --> 00:16:13.259
Sonia ----: care for them, right? Yeah. That's one of the unique positions where, Americans don't understand that, you know, as an immigrant, we have the extra burden of not only caring for our children, not only caring for our parents, right?
111
00:16:13.260 --> 00:16:13.640
Dr. Esther Bubb: Right.
112
00:16:13.640 --> 00:16:20.399
Sonia ----: But the burden back home is, like, you're carrying the lotus for family back home.
113
00:16:20.400 --> 00:16:21.590
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. And…
114
00:16:22.020 --> 00:16:39.309
Sonia ----: And until they can relate to that, right? They don't understand that path of an immigrant. But then, also, we've been here long enough that we understand, right? That, you know, we have to care for who we need to care for, but not care too much where we become burnt out.
115
00:16:39.470 --> 00:16:42.540
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, 100%. I love that you added that, yeah.
116
00:16:42.540 --> 00:16:43.050
Sonia ----: Yeah.
117
00:16:43.050 --> 00:16:49.900
Dr. Esther Bubb: Because we do have that additional burden on us in terms of, you know, our family and associates back home. Yes, yes, yes, yes.
118
00:16:49.900 --> 00:16:53.540
Sonia ----: Because they think, like, you're in heaven, right?
119
00:16:53.540 --> 00:16:54.990
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes!
120
00:16:54.990 --> 00:16:58.470
Sonia ----: And they want something from you!
121
00:16:58.470 --> 00:16:59.840
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
122
00:16:59.840 --> 00:17:05.009
Sonia ----: And then, unfortunately, you may have one or two neighbors who are doing a little bit
123
00:17:05.400 --> 00:17:15.639
Sonia ----: But they may not have that extra burden of caring for children or something like that, so they can afford to spend money back home, and you only spend, like, a dollar, they're like.
124
00:17:15.760 --> 00:17:35.429
Sonia ----: Girl, that is not enough, because Sister Betsy's daughter just bought a book mansion for her, and she has a Mercedes-Benz, and you're just coming here and giving me some little crap, you know? So, anyway, like you said earlier, when we started, we have to offer ourselves grace, because they don't understand.
125
00:17:35.430 --> 00:17:52.449
Dr. Esther Bubb: They don't, yes, exactly. Can you share an example, Sonia, we're changing a behavior, right? So not just a process, like, alright, this is our new system, but, like, our actual behaviors led to better outcomes for your residents, and then what specifically changed that made that difference?
126
00:17:54.010 --> 00:17:58.190
Sonia ----: So, a lot of times, we have people who…
127
00:17:58.510 --> 00:18:03.719
Sonia ----: don't know that their voice is power, right?
128
00:18:04.740 --> 00:18:15.359
Sonia ----: that they can advocate on issues.
134
00:18:36.260 --> 00:18:43.370
Sonia ----: Where people don't understand that they can advocate on their behalf, right? So, whether it's…
135
00:18:44.030 --> 00:18:50.160
Sonia ----: is, you know, like, we had an issue in Prince George's County where, seniors.
136
00:18:50.160 --> 00:18:50.540
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
137
00:18:50.540 --> 00:18:55.339
Sonia ----: Living in… it's supposed to be affordable housing.
138
00:18:55.340 --> 00:18:56.300
Dr. Esther Bubb: Right?
139
00:18:56.300 --> 00:19:09.710
Sonia ----: And the landlord was raising the rent to, like, wazoo, like, 20-30% every year. Like, these people are on fixed income. They didn't realize they could come and make action to change it.
140
00:19:09.710 --> 00:19:10.100
Dr. Esther Bubb: Mmm…
141
00:19:10.100 --> 00:19:20.309
Sonia ----: And until they could see that, until I kept on going. I remember the first time I went to the house, remember the one I told this little lady about, you know, her needing to go to the hospital?
142
00:19:20.310 --> 00:19:36.769
Sonia ----: So I went to the apartment complex, and she says, oh, they're gonna call the cops on you. I said, I've been arrested at better places, right? And so I said, I'm gonna still come, I don't care if they arrest me. But I kept on coming. What I would do is, when I had something to talk to them.
143
00:19:36.850 --> 00:19:52.179
Sonia ----: each and every one of those doors, I will leave a leaflet, right? I could have left it at the lobby, I could have left it just in the, you know, with the management. I went to each and every one of their doors, listened to them, right? And let them know
144
00:19:52.320 --> 00:20:08.309
Sonia ----: You can come whenever there is a hearing about, you know, affordable housing or rental increase, come. They came, and they were able to advocate a 6% every 2 years, which was better than just having to pay
145
00:20:08.310 --> 00:20:24.400
Sonia ----: 10-20% on fixed income. So, you know, they were able to see that their voice mattered. And also, even now in the immigrant community, where we have, you know, a lot of immigrants are all about parties, going to church, or going to work.
146
00:20:24.490 --> 00:20:27.579
Sonia ----: But now they realize now they're the ones being cooked.
147
00:20:27.770 --> 00:20:35.070
Sonia ----: Now, they're coming out to talk, but, like, you know, a lot of times, I don't know if you've watched what I share on Facebook, I'm usually, like.
148
00:20:35.070 --> 00:20:35.460
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
149
00:20:35.460 --> 00:20:37.890
Sonia ----: Going to a mosque, right?
150
00:20:38.200 --> 00:20:38.800
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
151
00:20:38.800 --> 00:20:41.370
Sonia ----: I just shared to you, I just came from church.
152
00:20:41.370 --> 00:20:41.690
Dr. Esther Bubb: Okay.
153
00:20:42.170 --> 00:20:47.809
Sonia ----: Right? But I realized, having to get these people to come, I had to become one of them.
154
00:20:48.290 --> 00:21:06.150
Sonia ----: in the midst and talk to them, and the more they saw me, the more they became comfortable, and now they're out there trying to talk and change the trajectory of their lives. Because I tell them, you're thinking about back home. A lot of them, oh, this party, that party, this thing, that thing.
155
00:21:06.150 --> 00:21:08.520
Sonia ----: But we've had our children, your daughter.
156
00:21:08.520 --> 00:21:21.499
Sonia ----: as much as you would say she's your daughter, she recognized that you are from wherever, right? She would never go there. She would never pack herself and go stay there, right? She's an American, right?
157
00:21:21.500 --> 00:21:26.480
Sonia ----: As immigrants, we have to speak for our children, because they are uniquely
158
00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:41.250
Sonia ----: American, but not uniquely that full American, because of our culture, they have everything that we put in them, that they have to come and, like, thrive in an American society, and we have to be the voices to explain who our children are.
159
00:21:41.250 --> 00:21:52.800
Sonia ----: Right? That our children, we don't want them to be mediocre, right? We want them to be ex… I don't think I want my children to be C and D student, right? B and A, right?
160
00:21:52.800 --> 00:21:53.590
Dr. Esther Bubb: Exactly, yeah.
161
00:21:53.590 --> 00:22:02.049
Sonia ----: And so, we have to be that voice, and now we're getting our immigrant communities, we're getting our seniors, we're getting people who…
162
00:22:02.680 --> 00:22:05.460
Sonia ----: In the past, never thought they could talk.
163
00:22:05.580 --> 00:22:15.910
Sonia ----: They're coming up and talking now, so, you know, being, like I said, being out there and having them see that it's possible is making it possible that they're changing their behaviors.
164
00:22:16.480 --> 00:22:29.720
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, I love that, Sonia, because, again, it goes back to your care, right? You cared enough to go to each and every door, thinking of each person individually, thinking, that they need the information, and it makes me think of, like, equity, Sonia.
165
00:22:30.070 --> 00:22:46.400
Dr. Esther Bubb: access and community impact, and you're having such a grand impact on your community and your constituents and your neighbors and the people, your residents, right? And it's making me, you know, I'm asking you this, but I'm thinking of it also on the other end of the spectrum. So, like, what…
166
00:22:46.400 --> 00:22:57.230
Dr. Esther Bubb: What are some of the things you do, Sonia, to make sure that the services you provide are not just available, but, like, accessible, right, and equitable, so people can get to you, they can get to the services.
167
00:22:57.230 --> 00:23:09.079
Dr. Esther Bubb: But to your point about immigrants getting out there and joining the cause, it's also them accessing the knowledge, right? So if you go out there, you're here and you get the knowledge. So, what are your thoughts on access in both
168
00:23:09.240 --> 00:23:19.930
Dr. Esther Bubb: Both fronts, on both fronts, so that they can access the locations, the services, but they can also access that knowledge, and be informed, and be able to participate and lend their voice to the cause.
169
00:23:20.960 --> 00:23:23.380
Sonia ----: So, like you said.
170
00:23:24.050 --> 00:23:35.729
Sonia ----: you have to be… because a lot of people in our immigrant communities, right? I'll take, for example, as a Sierra Leonean, in Sierra Leone, you're not…
171
00:23:35.860 --> 00:23:48.690
Sonia ----: supposed to talk to authority, right? Yeah. When someone in authority says something to you, you're supposed to shrivel and just do what they're supposed to do, or do what they told you to do.
172
00:23:48.690 --> 00:23:49.060
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
173
00:23:49.060 --> 00:23:57.070
Sonia ----: Well, and so that same behavior, we're practicing it in America, which is different, right? So in America, we're…
174
00:23:57.440 --> 00:24:02.530
Sonia ----: You're supposed to come and say,
180
00:24:18.040 --> 00:24:25.880
Sonia ----: I'll give you an example for, like, with our… within our immigrant communities, we are not…
181
00:24:26.760 --> 00:24:29.079
Sonia ----: We are not equipped, right?
182
00:24:29.890 --> 00:24:40.270
Sonia ----: To stand up to authority, because from where we come from, we don't… we're not able to challenge, or we're not allowed, or we're not encouraged to… to challenge
183
00:24:40.490 --> 00:24:47.489
Sonia ----: authority, right? If the minister said for you to roll down the hill, you just put your shoes on, and just roll down the hill.
184
00:24:47.490 --> 00:24:47.920
Dr. Esther Bubb: him.
185
00:24:47.920 --> 00:24:58.559
Sonia ----: And you roll in the direction they told you, right? But in America, you're supposed to at least, at the very least, say, I don't like you telling me to go down the hill.
186
00:24:58.610 --> 00:25:08.010
Sonia ----: Right? Even if you end up doing it, but you say, I don't like the way you're telling me to go down the hill. Can I do it a different way? Can I walk down the hill, right?
187
00:25:08.010 --> 00:25:08.450
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
188
00:25:08.450 --> 00:25:20.900
Sonia ----: And that's what we're trying to do, change those behaviors within our immigrant community, because a lot of times, we come, we're so focused, like I said, about back home, and we don't think about where we are.
189
00:25:20.900 --> 00:25:36.360
Sonia ----: Right? That we can go and access these information, whether it's about immigration, whether it's about school, right? Whether it's about our housing situation, whether it's… you know, another thing I've been thinking.
190
00:25:36.360 --> 00:25:40.989
Sonia ----: Where we… our lack of knowledge is getting us into trouble, right?
191
00:25:40.990 --> 00:25:41.540
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
192
00:25:41.680 --> 00:25:45.320
Sonia ----: Is that when it comes to the court system, Right?
193
00:25:45.320 --> 00:25:46.040
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
194
00:25:46.040 --> 00:25:57.570
Sonia ----: Because a lot of times, we just say, okay, I don't have the money to go hire a good lawyer. So we get a public defender, and the public defender says, you know what?
195
00:25:58.620 --> 00:26:02.629
Sonia ----: You don't want to go to jail, right? Yeah, I don't want to go to jail. Who wants to go to jail?
196
00:26:02.920 --> 00:26:06.050
Sonia ----: Just do 30 days, whatever.
197
00:26:06.090 --> 00:26:25.559
Sonia ----: And that's gonna come away from you, right? But a public defender doesn't realize that a regular-born American citizen versus an immigrant has a green card, it's two different things, right? So the immigrant goes ahead and pleads guilty to whatever, you know, takes the plea agreement.
198
00:26:25.830 --> 00:26:30.659
Sonia ----: And then now they're faced with being shipped back home, because now…
199
00:26:30.900 --> 00:26:38.090
Sonia ----: you know, in Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania is very much, you know, a felony or whatever. Pennsylvania is quick to try to get you out.
200
00:26:38.130 --> 00:26:58.140
Sonia ----: Right? And so here it is, you thought you'd gotten that trouble out of your head, right? And then you're… you're coming in and facing everything else. So I've gotten into now that expungement, not only for our American-born citizen, but our regular immigrants, because expungement is going to be
201
00:26:58.140 --> 00:27:01.959
Sonia ----: that key that keeps them glued to America, right? You know?
202
00:27:01.960 --> 00:27:02.370
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
203
00:27:02.370 --> 00:27:16.570
Sonia ----: An American… an American would say, okay, I have this… this issue. Okay, well, let's go do an expungement. And then you'll be able to get your job. You know, there are ways where, if you have a criminal record.
204
00:27:16.590 --> 00:27:22.350
Sonia ----: you're… they're not supposed to discriminate, right? So making it equitable and… and… and…
205
00:27:22.350 --> 00:27:36.710
Sonia ----: and accessible to our immigrant community, that's where my voice starts, like, merging between, you know, understanding where you come from and understanding where you are. That's where the merge came, you know, where, you know, I'm over there running my mouth all the time.
206
00:27:36.840 --> 00:27:46.319
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. Yeah, no, no, you shared so many valuable points there, Sonia, but the one that's really sitting with me is, you know, knowing where you're from and knowing where you are, right?
207
00:27:46.320 --> 00:27:46.720
Sonia ----: So it really…
208
00:27:46.720 --> 00:27:50.250
Dr. Esther Bubb: Reminds me of this, you know, old age, adage,
209
00:27:50.280 --> 00:28:14.650
Dr. Esther Bubb: when you're in Rome, do as the Romans do. It makes you think when you're grenadas, do as Grenadians do. When you're in the U.S, you know, do as the Americans do. So, it's like adapting to where we are, and shifting our mindset and our beliefs, and, you know, how we were taught growing up, because you mentioned, you know, you just do as you were told, and we have the same background that we heard from parents, you know, when I was growing up, speak when you're spoken to, answer when you're called, right? Essentially the same thing you just said.
210
00:28:14.740 --> 00:28:34.449
Dr. Esther Bubb: And so, we have to be able to know, like, here, we need to speak up, we need to share a voice, we need to learn, we need to be educated. Also, Sonia, like, back home, and I feel you would say the same, it's like, you just swallow what you hear, you just believe it, you don't investigate, you don't research, you don't challenge, right? As you just said, we have to challenge sometimes. Alright, I heard what you said, but
211
00:28:34.500 --> 00:28:39.489
Dr. Esther Bubb: I don't like the way you're asking me to do it, or I'd prefer to do it this way, you know?
212
00:28:39.760 --> 00:28:40.669
Dr. Esther Bubb: So I think it's a lot.
213
00:28:40.670 --> 00:28:41.019
Sonia ----: out of blue.
214
00:28:41.020 --> 00:28:54.509
Dr. Esther Bubb: things that can fuel change, and how we can support ourselves, our constituents, or our fellow immigrants, our neighbors, our children, right? You know, as leaders, and based on our experiences and knowledge, yeah.
215
00:28:56.310 --> 00:29:06.669
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, so you shared a lot there, Sonia. Is there anything else you would share in terms of shifts or changes we need to make as leaders to better meet the needs of our communities?
216
00:29:09.120 --> 00:29:16.829
Sonia ----: I think, one of the things as… as leaders in our communities is that understanding
217
00:29:17.340 --> 00:29:24.249
Sonia ----: what your community actually needs, right? Because, like, I'll give an example.
218
00:29:25.120 --> 00:29:28.200
Sonia ----: When you look at full drives, right?
219
00:29:28.510 --> 00:29:44.470
Sonia ----: The basic food drive gets corn flakes, the canned foods, the beans, the packaged beans, the non-perishables, right? Yeah. But gift to an immigrant, they don't know what to do with that, right?
220
00:29:44.470 --> 00:29:59.270
Sonia ----: Right. So, understanding what the community that you serve, whether it's an immigrant community or whether it's Native American-born community, what they actually need. Because I cannot give an immigrant community, packaged food.
221
00:29:59.270 --> 00:30:06.439
Sonia ----: Because they will look at you like, what the heck do I do with, what you call it, Vienna sausage, right?
222
00:30:06.440 --> 00:30:07.799
Dr. Esther Bubb: Right, right.
225
00:30:13.930 --> 00:30:17.449
Sonia ----: Like, what would I do with a package of Vienna sausage, right?
226
00:30:17.450 --> 00:30:17.850
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
227
00:30:18.040 --> 00:30:21.329
Sonia ----: So we have to understand the communities that we serve.
228
00:30:21.520 --> 00:30:33.629
Sonia ----: And be able to advocate based on what the true needs of those communities are. Whether it's saying, well, you know, like my community, we have a community garden, right?
229
00:30:33.630 --> 00:30:33.990
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
230
00:30:33.990 --> 00:30:43.329
Sonia ----: And usually what they plant is just peppers and tomatoes, but then we have a growing Hispanic community, right, in my community.
231
00:30:43.580 --> 00:30:53.130
Sonia ----: We need to give them some space to grow whatever the heck they grow. If it's yucca, whether it's whatever else that's gonna help them feel like home, we have to start
232
00:30:53.130 --> 00:31:06.580
Sonia ----: talking based on what our community needs, and we only know it if we go out in the community and actually talk to the people, like you said. Always talking, always listening, and always being a part of the conversation.
233
00:31:06.810 --> 00:31:19.819
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, so on that note, I have a story to share, and you'll appreciate it, Sonia, but it goes along with what you're saying, knowing the people we're serving, knowing their history, knowing their background, knowing their culture, knowing what's important to them. It makes me think of cultural humility, like.
234
00:31:19.940 --> 00:31:30.250
Dr. Esther Bubb: not necessarily cultural competence, like, alright, I have to know every single thing about this culture, but just being curious enough and inquisitive enough to ask and learn, right? So, I remember supporting a team
235
00:31:30.490 --> 00:31:36.989
Dr. Esther Bubb: in the past, who was supporting a child, you know, with an IEP, so special education student preschooler, so 3 to 5.
236
00:31:37.050 --> 00:32:00.409
Dr. Esther Bubb: And, the team in the IEP meeting was just really talking to the mom. So the mom is African, right? The child was born here, but, you know, that African culture. And so they eat with their hands. And so the team just kept pressing and pushing to the mom that, alright, we need to teach your daughter how to eat with a fork, and to the mom, this was not something that was important to the mom in that moment. That was not her priority, right?
237
00:32:00.410 --> 00:32:13.070
Dr. Esther Bubb: Because eating with a fork was just not something that was important to her in her culture. The other things that were important to her was a missed opportunity for the team to find out and really prioritize on that. Alright, we can work on that later, but in this moment.
238
00:32:13.070 --> 00:32:15.170
Dr. Esther Bubb: It wasn't a priority for the child, so…
239
00:32:15.170 --> 00:32:27.670
Dr. Esther Bubb: And for the moms, so really understanding what the needs are. I really like that you share that, because sometimes we overlook that, and we put what our perspectives are on them, and expect them, and want them to do the same, you know?
240
00:32:28.520 --> 00:32:32.859
Sonia ----: Yeah, we have to learn to be culturally sensitive, right?
241
00:32:32.860 --> 00:32:33.240
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
242
00:32:33.240 --> 00:32:46.200
Sonia ----: also religiously sensitive, because where you have the… where you have the cross of, you know, you could, like, the mother you were talking about, you know, she could have been an African Muslim, right?
243
00:32:46.200 --> 00:32:46.520
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
244
00:32:46.520 --> 00:32:58.139
Sonia ----: It's another different perspective versus, you know, her being an African Christian, or… like, we always have to be culturally sensitive, because
245
00:32:58.140 --> 00:33:13.529
Sonia ----: as Americans, we just think things have to go the way as an American, right? You know, you eat with your spoon, you know, you come home, you talk, you do whatever, and as we're talking, I'm thinking, you know, where we have that…
246
00:33:13.960 --> 00:33:16.439
Sonia ----: Me and you, I know we have that, where.
247
00:33:16.440 --> 00:33:16.850
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
248
00:33:16.850 --> 00:33:29.079
Sonia ----: Back home, you're not supposed to look at your family in the eye, right? But in America, if you don't look me in my eye, you are lying to me, and you… I don't believe a word you're saying, right?
249
00:33:29.080 --> 00:33:30.080
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yep, yep.
250
00:33:30.080 --> 00:33:34.180
Sonia ----: how do we… how do we fight that? Right? How do we fight that?
251
00:33:34.180 --> 00:33:34.510
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
252
00:33:34.510 --> 00:33:53.609
Sonia ----: as you can see, as we're doing an interview, I'm, like, looking away and trying to look at you, looking away and trying to look at you, because, like, we're caught in the middle of a culture, culture shift, a paradigm, right? We're, like, we're, like, standing on two… two shifts, like, two… two plates, and… Yeah.
253
00:33:53.730 --> 00:33:58.319
Sonia ----: And so we can be culturally sensitive, and we have to, like…
254
00:33:59.080 --> 00:34:02.789
Sonia ----: Extend to other people. Understanding, you know.
255
00:34:02.960 --> 00:34:09.860
Sonia ----: Some people, to what to me might seem very weird, might be just their cultural norm, right?
256
00:34:09.860 --> 00:34:10.960
Dr. Esther Bubb: It's accepting.
257
00:34:10.969 --> 00:34:19.509
Sonia ----: You know, the mother, like you said, shared earlier, her… my priority is for me, my children, to get to know their culture, right?
258
00:34:19.929 --> 00:34:24.809
Sonia ----: And with that, that also meant that I had to teach some Creole, right?
259
00:34:24.810 --> 00:34:25.170
Dr. Esther Bubb: Right.
260
00:34:25.179 --> 00:34:38.349
Sonia ----: But when you go in and you're answering, and I have a child who does IEP, but when you go in and answer some of those questions, it's like, you technically have to, like, lie and say, I fit in this box, but my child really.
261
00:34:38.350 --> 00:34:38.730
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
262
00:34:39.030 --> 00:34:45.959
Sonia ----: My child don't quite fit in that box, and I don't quite quit quite… I don't even know what box I fit in.
263
00:34:45.969 --> 00:34:46.349
Dr. Esther Bubb: Nope.
264
00:34:46.350 --> 00:34:54.499
Sonia ----: I'm, like, the little middle of the pie, and my foot is all everywhere, and my child is, like, standing next to me, because they quite…
265
00:34:54.500 --> 00:35:11.699
Sonia ----: know that they're American, they know they're American, but, like, they don't quite understand the American culture, because I'm trying to busy infusing my African culture, like, scraping it in their head, right? And America's like, no, no, no, no, no, it's like, you can't…
266
00:35:11.780 --> 00:35:16.979
Sonia ----: So, try to be culturally sensitive, and understanding that
267
00:35:17.170 --> 00:35:34.750
Sonia ----: people are people, and you have to meet them where they are. Regardless of what you serve, or regardless of what you bring, someone will not be willing to accept you if they can't relate to you. So you have to be relatable when you offer service. If you don't… if you're not relatable.
268
00:35:35.390 --> 00:35:44.470
Sonia ----: You can… you can… you can be Moses and part the water and be able to solve all their problems, but if they don't… can relate to you, it's for nothing.
269
00:35:44.640 --> 00:35:49.539
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, that is… that is so true. To be acceptable, you have to be relatable. I love that. Yeah.
270
00:35:50.900 --> 00:36:08.200
Dr. Esther Bubb: So that's another takeaway for me, Sonia, from everything you've shared. So to close us out, right, what is one Monday morning move, or a specific behavior that listeners can implement immediately to start creating meaningful change, whether it's within themselves, their work space, or their communities?
271
00:36:09.300 --> 00:36:13.080
Sonia ----: You have to start with yourself, right?
272
00:36:13.220 --> 00:36:22.650
Sonia ----: You have to offer yourself grace. Each day, even though it's 7 days, it repeats itself. Every year, we have the same… it looks like a cycle.
273
00:36:22.690 --> 00:36:37.039
Sonia ----: Each day is different. As a woman, as a mother, I offer myself that grace because I don't understand anything. Every day is something new, and I'm willing to learn, right? I'm willing to take that time to
274
00:36:37.190 --> 00:36:38.520
Sonia ----: come home.
275
00:36:38.640 --> 00:36:50.489
Sonia ----: decompress, right? We don't have to be going 24-7. Even the machines in the hospitals, even the clouds, take time to refresh.
276
00:36:50.900 --> 00:36:51.320
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
277
00:36:51.320 --> 00:36:59.630
Sonia ----: If a call can refresh, you need to offer yourself that grace to just shut down and go and, like.
278
00:37:00.270 --> 00:37:11.030
Sonia ----: do something, take yourself away, and then come back and say, okay, yeah, where did I log off? What did I last do? Take your time to… to…
279
00:37:11.400 --> 00:37:14.659
Sonia ----: To understand that every day's different.
280
00:37:14.770 --> 00:37:33.690
Sonia ----: Right? That you have an opportunity to do something different the next day, even if you're facing the same challenge. And then offer your children, if your mothers, or your aunts, or, you know, your uncles, or whatever, offer your family member that listen ear.
281
00:37:33.690 --> 00:37:38.419
Sonia ----: Right? Because at the end of the day, Somebody needs to listen.
282
00:37:38.760 --> 00:37:47.130
Sonia ----: Right? Somebody needs to listen, and somebody needs to talk. Right? And all some people need is just to have somebody listen to them.
283
00:37:47.340 --> 00:38:00.680
Sonia ----: Right? It's not about them, you trying to solve their problem. Just listen to them, make them understand that they're human, make them understand that they're valued, make them understand that they're loved.
284
00:38:00.690 --> 00:38:07.650
Sonia ----: Right? And then, you know, the rest, just leave it up to them. For me, I pray. I wake up early in the morning, I pray.
285
00:38:07.650 --> 00:38:08.070
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
286
00:38:08.070 --> 00:38:23.449
Sonia ----: Right? Some people say, why do you get up early? I get up because I want to pray, because I want to first connect with God, right? When I connect with God, or whatever higher power, or whatever spiritual power, even if it's not coming… waking up and praying, you may not have to do that.
287
00:38:23.450 --> 00:38:29.149
Sonia ----: You may just have to take that time to just reflect on what you need to do for the day.
288
00:38:29.150 --> 00:38:39.219
Sonia ----: Right? Plan. You know, mine is praying, but you can do another P, plan, right? Plan your day ahead, so that you're not overwhelmed, because you can plan.
289
00:38:39.280 --> 00:38:48.900
Sonia ----: But things can change, but at least you know what a map looks like for you, so that you don't become too overwhelmed. So, offer yourself grace, and always be thankful.
290
00:38:49.420 --> 00:38:55.929
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, I love that. Offer yourself grace, be thankful. You also said step away, refresh, give yourself a break.
291
00:38:56.320 --> 00:39:14.199
Sonia ----: just think about it. When you look up in the sky, the cloud refreshes, right? They move, but they slow down, right? Even your iCloud, it refreshes. It doesn't just keep going, right? It refreshes all for yourself grace in that time.
292
00:39:14.360 --> 00:39:28.320
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, wonderful. Well, Sonia, thank you so, so much for joining, like I said, especially taking your time in Africa to spend with me. I wish you all the best, really good work, what you're doing, Sonia. Really proud of you, too.
293
00:39:28.320 --> 00:39:29.970
Sonia ----: Which I am proud of you too, Esther.
294
00:39:29.970 --> 00:39:34.069
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, all the advocacy and all that stuff, so I wish you nothing but the best.
295
00:39:34.470 --> 00:39:38.650
Sonia ----: Thank you very much, and always reach out. I'm always here. Thanks.
296
00:39:38.650 --> 00:39:39.830
Dr. Esther Bubb: Wonderful. Thank you.
297
00:39:39.830 --> 00:39:41.250
Sonia ----: Okay, bye-bye.
Outro
Thank you for listening to Behaviorally Speaking: Leadership for Change-Makers. Be sure to visit esthercbubbabaservices.com/blog for today's companion blog and additional leadership resources. Until next time, create the conditions for growth wherever you lead. I'm Dr. Esther Bubb. Stay inspired.
Welcome to Behaviorally Speaking: Leadership for Change-Makers—where leadership is grounded in behavior, guided by dignity, and designed for change. I'm your host, Dr. Esther Bubb. Let's dive into today's episode.
Interview
1
00:00:02.940 --> 00:00:13.510
Dr. Esther Bubb: Hi, Sonia, thank you so much for joining today. It is so good to see you after so many years. I mean, I know we've been in touch throughout the years, but in terms of seeing you and having a conversation, it's been quite a minute.
2
00:00:13.510 --> 00:00:25.109
Dr. Esther Bubb: And I'm so grateful to you for making the time for me today, so I'm extremely grateful, because you're home in Africa, Sierra Leone, West Africa. So, how are you, and tell us a little bit about how you're doing in Africa.
3
00:00:28.330 --> 00:00:46.320
Sonia ----: Well, I'm good. I'm, as Esther has already introduced me. I'm currently home with my family, so as you can see, I'm happy, I'm refreshed, ready to get back to the U.S. to get into the line of work that I always do.
4
00:00:46.320 --> 00:00:49.900
Sonia ----: That I do love, but it's just sometimes it can be very draining.
5
00:00:49.900 --> 00:00:54.350
Sonia ----: I'm here, just came from church, still in my church clothes, and…
6
00:00:54.350 --> 00:00:54.750
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
7
00:00:55.840 --> 00:01:12.610
Dr. Esther Bubb: Wonderful. Thank you so much, Sonia. So, let's start the conversation off just talking about your origin, right, and your leadership pathways. So, in your role, Sonia, in constituent services leadership, right, what does leadership actually look like in action, Sonia, on a day-to-day basis for you?
8
00:01:14.240 --> 00:01:27.670
Sonia ----: responding to a constituent or a resident, when they are in need. One of the… one of the most interesting things I had to do, I've had to do in this job, I had a lady who…
9
00:01:27.910 --> 00:01:31.990
Sonia ----: Needed her husband's death certificate, right?
10
00:01:31.990 --> 00:01:48.189
Sonia ----: She had reached out to everyone, and she couldn't figure out where to get it or how to get it. And one of the reasons why she couldn't get it, because they had to do a death investigation. So, here it is in a job. Constituent service doesn't sound like
11
00:01:48.190 --> 00:01:52.600
Sonia ----: You… you touch into the lives of, you know, a funeral, right?
12
00:01:52.790 --> 00:01:53.140
Dr. Esther Bubb: of this.
13
00:01:53.140 --> 00:02:02.270
Sonia ----: This woman was trying to get her husband's life insurance policy so she could be able to bury him, so she could be able to, you know, close out whatever chapter he…
14
00:02:02.710 --> 00:02:12.110
Sonia ----: And she couldn't get it, so here it is I am, getting on the phone, calling the state medical examiner to say, what's going on? You know.
15
00:02:12.110 --> 00:02:12.729
Dr. Esther Bubb: It's this lady.
16
00:02:12.730 --> 00:02:31.210
Sonia ----: because that's just because she needs to do the rest of her stuff. So, constituent service for me in a leadership role means that you are always on the call, and always willing to step in for people who may not know what they need to do, but they know they need somebody to step in.
17
00:02:32.160 --> 00:02:32.750
Sonia ----: So…
18
00:02:32.750 --> 00:02:33.500
Dr. Esther Bubb: Wonderful.
19
00:02:33.690 --> 00:02:47.100
Dr. Esther Bubb: Thank you. It seems very far-reaching. The story you shared about the death certificate, that's just something that wouldn't have come to my mind, Tony, I'm being honest, you know, thinking of constituent services, but it makes sense, right? Serving the constituents and supporting them with their needs, so…
20
00:02:47.100 --> 00:02:54.490
Dr. Esther Bubb: Having said all of that, it seems very interesting and very fulfilling at the same time, right, Sonia? So, what drew you to this work?
21
00:02:54.490 --> 00:02:59.830
Dr. Esther Bubb: And what behaviors or mindsets have helped you stay committed, even when the work gets hard?
22
00:03:03.160 --> 00:03:10.010
Sonia ----: So, when we… when we last saw in college, right, my plan was to become a medical doctor.
23
00:03:10.370 --> 00:03:20.099
Sonia ----: I was a chemistry major, finished, and I was ready to go and serve the world, right? You were. And when I was in school, I had to
24
00:03:20.460 --> 00:03:31.599
Sonia ----: I had this job that I was doing CNA, or Certified Nursing Assistant, and I realized that that wasn't my job. That wasn't what I needed to do, because
25
00:03:31.750 --> 00:03:43.559
Sonia ----: unfortunately, I had 7 patients during the summer, and all of them died, right? And I found myself taking myself off from work, and going to funerals, right?
26
00:03:43.560 --> 00:03:43.960
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
27
00:03:43.960 --> 00:04:01.169
Sonia ----: look at a doctor that had a practice, let's, unfortunately, a few of your patients died, and you had to take, close your office while you still need to pay your bills, and go, and go to funeral service. So I realized at the onset that, medical school wasn't for me.
28
00:04:01.360 --> 00:04:07.550
Sonia ----: And so then I was like, okay, let me figure out what I need to do. And somehow, I told myself.
29
00:04:07.590 --> 00:04:27.130
Sonia ----: and customer service, right? Serving people because, you know, I want to… I want to help people when… as best as I can when they need help. And customer service was the first role to me into constituent service. And then constituent service just came because I like politics, I like advocating on behalf of people.
30
00:04:27.130 --> 00:04:27.500
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
31
00:04:27.630 --> 00:04:33.159
Sonia ----: And I just like to talk to people in general. So, like, it's the best of both worlds.
32
00:04:33.430 --> 00:04:40.719
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, yeah, I love that. Thank you for sharing that story. Looking back on your journey, you know, from growing up in Sierra Leone to
33
00:04:40.760 --> 00:04:54.509
Dr. Esther Bubb: at your life here, our lives at Cheney, right? And then everything in your life thereafter. What would you say are the key experiences, Sonia, or influences that most shape how you lead, how you respond, and how you serve?
34
00:04:57.330 --> 00:04:59.680
Sonia ----: One of two people.
35
00:04:59.940 --> 00:05:10.190
Sonia ----: One is my grandmother, right? My grandmother was a very much community person, and she was always given. She never…
36
00:05:10.580 --> 00:05:26.680
Sonia ----: Right? She was always out there. There were people who, they say, were… she said were my cousins and family members. When you research, they're not even close to your family tree, but she was always out there giving. And then I look at my mom.
37
00:05:26.940 --> 00:05:27.310
Dr. Esther Bubb: because.
38
00:05:27.310 --> 00:05:31.549
Sonia ----: Now we're faced with a crisis where, as immigrants, right.
39
00:05:31.550 --> 00:05:31.980
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
40
00:05:31.980 --> 00:05:40.589
Sonia ----: faced with being told we don't belong in a country that once wrapped us around, and with an embrace, right?
41
00:05:40.700 --> 00:05:49.309
Sonia ----: Yeah. And so, I look at my mom's experience, and I said, well, when she came, she didn't have anything, and she was still faced with
42
00:05:49.310 --> 00:06:00.899
Sonia ----: trying to provide for her family, trying to be there for her siblings that are back home, right? So I think about her and say, well, you know, if my mom could do it.
43
00:06:01.030 --> 00:06:09.310
Sonia ----: she left her country, came to America, and she's there serving. She was there, she was an Iron Lady, she was an Iron Lady.
44
00:06:09.310 --> 00:06:16.159
Sonia ----: I can do it, but I look at her experience where she shared with me that she was homeless, unhoused.
45
00:06:16.160 --> 00:06:39.319
Sonia ----: That she came and she was undocumented, that she would, you know, she couldn't figure it out because she was the only person in America. She didn't have family, she didn't have anything else. And so when I… when I go out and serve in my role as constituent service, I think about what my mom experienced and don't want other people to experience the same thing. So you'll find me advocating
46
00:06:39.320 --> 00:06:41.660
Sonia ----: for, immigration.
47
00:06:41.690 --> 00:06:46.449
Sonia ----: Which people will say, why? Because, you know, we need to talk.
48
00:06:47.070 --> 00:06:53.580
Sonia ----: Those of us that have a voice, we need to talk for those who are being marginalized. We need to talk for those who
49
00:06:53.910 --> 00:07:06.139
Sonia ----: may not understand what's going on. They know that America's where they belong, because unfortunately, we no longer belong in the country we once came from, right?
50
00:07:06.140 --> 00:07:06.550
Dr. Esther Bubb: Right.
51
00:07:06.550 --> 00:07:07.480
Sonia ----: American for Harvard.
52
00:07:07.480 --> 00:07:07.920
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
53
00:07:08.250 --> 00:07:15.160
Sonia ----: Yeah. And we don't quite fit in any of those molds, right? So my advocacy is for people who
54
00:07:15.610 --> 00:07:20.800
Sonia ----: don't feel like they quite belong. It could be that single mother that, you know, doesn't know what.
55
00:07:20.800 --> 00:07:21.160
Dr. Esther Bubb: She's…
56
00:07:21.160 --> 00:07:38.699
Sonia ----: in her role as a mother, or you could be that father, that man who's experiencing mental health illness that doesn't know what to do. So, you know, the efficacy is just to be able to talk for someone who needs you, but don't know what they need.
57
00:07:38.740 --> 00:07:42.979
Sonia ----: Right? Yeah. You know, I know I need to go to sleep. I know I go to sleep?
58
00:07:43.340 --> 00:07:46.240
Sonia ----: Yeah. Do I go… you understand? Like, you understand?
59
00:07:46.240 --> 00:07:46.630
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
60
00:07:46.630 --> 00:07:48.840
Sonia ----: Yes. But I'm sleepy.
61
00:07:49.470 --> 00:08:08.739
Sonia ----: But I can't… I can't quite tell you I'm sleepy, right? And I'm just acting up, so it's like, you need to, like, slowly walk them through that process, whether it's trying to find them jobs, whether it's trying to make sure that they find homes, whether it's even trying to advocate for those mothers who
62
00:08:08.920 --> 00:08:16.049
Sonia ----: their food stamps is being cut. You know, there's different ways, but it's just making sure you put yourself in that position and talk
63
00:08:16.390 --> 00:08:17.010
Sonia ----: damn.
64
00:08:17.300 --> 00:08:17.990
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
65
00:08:17.990 --> 00:08:40.609
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, thank you for sharing that, Sonia. It's a lot in everything you said that I could relate to, you know, thinking of moments of crisis, moments of crying, moments of frustration, moments of not having, moments of wondering what's next, you know? Moments of wondering, are my days numbered? So I can totally relate to that, and I truly appreciate you sharing that, you know, especially as an immigrant myself, so…
66
00:08:40.880 --> 00:08:48.639
Dr. Esther Bubb: when in saying all of that, Sonia, and thinking of moments of crisis, but thinking of the need to communicate, and still maintaining trust, right?
67
00:08:48.650 --> 00:09:05.789
Dr. Esther Bubb: When people come to you, when they're frustrated, or they're in crisis, or they're down, right, or they're in tears, how do you communicate, Sonia, with compassion, but still while maintaining clear boundaries, right, given your role, and what behaviors do you engage in that makes that possible?
68
00:09:07.750 --> 00:09:22.770
Sonia ----: You have to be personable, right? Every person wants to be… relate… wants to be able to relate to you. So, if I come, and… and a lot of people understand this about me, is that
69
00:09:22.890 --> 00:09:40.959
Sonia ----: I treat you like I want to be treated, right? So, I come, I listen, I don't judge, I offer a shoulder, I… sometimes I go above and beyond. I go with you to… like, I'll give you an example. Before coming to Africa, I had a resident who…
70
00:09:41.080 --> 00:09:45.349
Sonia ----: Needed to go to, to the hospital, right?
71
00:09:45.350 --> 00:09:45.710
Dr. Esther Bubb: Okay.
72
00:09:45.710 --> 00:09:48.400
Sonia ----: She doesn't quite have a relationship with her kids.
73
00:09:48.430 --> 00:10:06.399
Sonia ----: And she's someone who reaches out to me quite often, and I hadn't heard from her. So I reached out to her, she said, oh, Sonia, I'm here, my back is hurting, but I don't know what to do, right? She said, but I don't want you to come, I don't want you to do anything. So I said, okay, well, I'll give you a week.
74
00:10:06.510 --> 00:10:09.879
Sonia ----: Right? Gabriel, we… I didn't hear anything. I called.
75
00:10:09.890 --> 00:10:17.989
Sonia ----: Right? I went to her apartment, and I took her to where she needed to go. So it's like putting yourself in that position that
76
00:10:17.990 --> 00:10:30.960
Sonia ----: You know, it's not about numbers, it's about a person that is a human, that has a heartbeat, that brings you. You know, that woman is so thankful, she tells everyone, Sonia's my daughter, she tells…
77
00:10:30.960 --> 00:10:38.859
Sonia ----: you know, I've only known this lady about 3 years, and she would tell me everything about her life, right? But it's just being able to connect
78
00:10:38.870 --> 00:10:45.799
Sonia ----: Find something with a human that you can connect. It's not about me getting a paycheck, because beyond a paycheck.
79
00:10:45.930 --> 00:11:01.070
Sonia ----: you know, when somebody suffers, we all suffer. So I take it from that perspective. You know, I communicate, I talk to them, you know, I go out and hang out with them. Sometimes, you know, we may not have time, but hey.
80
00:11:01.070 --> 00:11:01.600
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
81
00:11:01.600 --> 00:11:02.780
Sonia ----: Let's make something.
82
00:11:02.980 --> 00:11:20.929
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, yeah, no, I appreciate that, especially, your focus on being personable, your focus on the relationship, right? Your focus on seeing them as a human, as a person, and I 100% agree with that, but I can tell you, Sonia, when it's challenging for me, and obviously it's something I'm working on, is when…
83
00:11:21.050 --> 00:11:23.520
Dr. Esther Bubb: You feel like someone is doing something to you.
84
00:11:23.710 --> 00:11:37.509
Dr. Esther Bubb: to wrong you, or that… you know what I'm saying? So, like, still seeing them as a person, as a human, and they're experiencing what they're experiencing, and reacting the way they're reacting because of what they're experiencing. So that's… that's tough, but it's… it's something I'm working through, right? So…
85
00:11:37.510 --> 00:11:57.309
Dr. Esther Bubb: Saying all of that, Sonia, and thinking of, like, behaviors we can change, right? Where do you see, the everyday behaviors of individuals or teams driving success or failure? And I feel like the example you gave is a good example of, you know, how your systems can be successful, but what are some behaviors, in your opinion, that drive success or failure in systems?
86
00:12:00.050 --> 00:12:05.059
Sonia ----: I think, we can be, like, as you were talking,
87
00:12:05.410 --> 00:12:16.369
Sonia ----: we have to learn not to take things personal, right? We can be personable, but not take things personal, because you gotta understand that someone in crisis
88
00:12:16.400 --> 00:12:28.339
Sonia ----: may behave differently than someone who is having a fun time, right? So if someone is there cussing you out, you know, expressing their frustration,
89
00:12:28.380 --> 00:12:41.040
Sonia ----: you just listen. I don't take it personal. I… I try to figure out, okay, this could be me, right? I remember I used to work in the tax office, and people will call, and I… and I tell people.
90
00:12:41.190 --> 00:12:45.239
Sonia ----: every December, like, now I don't really talk on the phone, right?
91
00:12:45.560 --> 00:12:57.820
Sonia ----: December, everyone will go and file their tax return, and in December, after Christmas, everyone have crisis, right? My grandmother's mother died, somebody just got robbed, somebody got sucked.
92
00:12:57.820 --> 00:13:13.779
Sonia ----: And I had to start thinking, these people, you know, maybe they don't understand what the process is, you know, in terms of filing your taxes, what it needs to be done, how long it's going to take. They just know that they want money, and they want it now, right?
93
00:13:13.780 --> 00:13:14.609
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah,
94
00:13:14.610 --> 00:13:28.990
Sonia ----: And so, you know, learning that people, like, there are times that… and you can say, you can see it, there are times where people really are actually in crisis, and then there are times that they go into crisis because
95
00:13:28.990 --> 00:13:40.420
Sonia ----: they feel like they need something at that time, right? For example, after Christmas, they spent all their money, right? And now they think their tax returns are coming 1st of January, right?
96
00:13:40.750 --> 00:13:54.559
Sonia ----: pay off the bills, but it doesn't happen, and so you have to teach people that they have to be patient with the process, right? Yeah. That you're listening to them, and that you, like, let's say you give them timeline. If someone comes to me and say.
97
00:13:54.960 --> 00:14:11.200
Sonia ----: I need something from you. I would say, okay, maybe in a week or two weeks, let me see what I can do. But then you have to do a check-in with them, right? Because when people know that you still care about what they told you about, and you're doing that check-in, even if you can't solve the problem.
98
00:14:11.270 --> 00:14:24.300
Sonia ----: and you're checking in with them, they're like, oh, okay, okay, she cares. Okay, she cares. And then, when you do the check-in, you have to say, okay, I remember I told you I was gonna do this, this is the steps I've taken.
99
00:14:24.410 --> 00:14:42.839
Sonia ----: To try to alleviate what your problem is. And unfortunately, I'm still at a standstill. Let me go think about it, maybe give me another week. And that's where we, like I said, you have to put yourself in that person's position, right? Because if I'm in need, I want it solved now, right?
100
00:14:42.840 --> 00:14:43.240
Dr. Esther Bubb: Right.
101
00:14:43.240 --> 00:14:53.690
Sonia ----: If Esther has that means of solving, I would be frustrated with you, because if you didn't do a check-in with me, you didn't call me, you don't look like you're concerned.
102
00:14:53.750 --> 00:15:08.669
Sonia ----: I will be mad at you, right? Even though we have to understand there are red tapes, you can do but so much, right? There are other people that need to help you push fully forward, but if you start telling people, okay, I've done this, I've done that.
103
00:15:08.670 --> 00:15:14.499
Sonia ----: Then it becomes less of an issue, because people, all they want to do is hear somebody talk.
104
00:15:15.090 --> 00:15:25.360
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, yeah, wonderful. Thank you for sharing that. So, the check-ins, that's a takeaway for me from, you know, what behaviors people can engage in that lead to success.
105
00:15:25.450 --> 00:15:37.389
Dr. Esther Bubb: And I think for me, it's also taking that step of, like, putting in my calendar, whatever, right? So I get that reminder to make sure it actually happens. So… so I like that you shared that. I think the check-in is very important, and you use the word care. It shows people that you care.
106
00:15:37.390 --> 00:15:38.100
Sonia ----: Because at least.
107
00:15:38.100 --> 00:15:45.580
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, especially in our world, Sonia, where it's… it's around the clock, right? It always goes, and at some point, we have… Yeah.
108
00:15:45.580 --> 00:15:56.319
Sonia ----: But we are, like, for example, you and I, we find ourselves in that unique position, right, where, you know, people back home expect you to…
109
00:15:56.320 --> 00:15:56.880
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
110
00:15:56.880 --> 00:16:13.259
Sonia ----: care for them, right? Yeah. That's one of the unique positions where, Americans don't understand that, you know, as an immigrant, we have the extra burden of not only caring for our children, not only caring for our parents, right?
111
00:16:13.260 --> 00:16:13.640
Dr. Esther Bubb: Right.
112
00:16:13.640 --> 00:16:20.399
Sonia ----: But the burden back home is, like, you're carrying the lotus for family back home.
113
00:16:20.400 --> 00:16:21.590
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. And…
114
00:16:22.020 --> 00:16:39.309
Sonia ----: And until they can relate to that, right? They don't understand that path of an immigrant. But then, also, we've been here long enough that we understand, right? That, you know, we have to care for who we need to care for, but not care too much where we become burnt out.
115
00:16:39.470 --> 00:16:42.540
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, 100%. I love that you added that, yeah.
116
00:16:42.540 --> 00:16:43.050
Sonia ----: Yeah.
117
00:16:43.050 --> 00:16:49.900
Dr. Esther Bubb: Because we do have that additional burden on us in terms of, you know, our family and associates back home. Yes, yes, yes, yes.
118
00:16:49.900 --> 00:16:53.540
Sonia ----: Because they think, like, you're in heaven, right?
119
00:16:53.540 --> 00:16:54.990
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes!
120
00:16:54.990 --> 00:16:58.470
Sonia ----: And they want something from you!
121
00:16:58.470 --> 00:16:59.840
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
122
00:16:59.840 --> 00:17:05.009
Sonia ----: And then, unfortunately, you may have one or two neighbors who are doing a little bit
123
00:17:05.400 --> 00:17:15.639
Sonia ----: But they may not have that extra burden of caring for children or something like that, so they can afford to spend money back home, and you only spend, like, a dollar, they're like.
124
00:17:15.760 --> 00:17:35.429
Sonia ----: Girl, that is not enough, because Sister Betsy's daughter just bought a book mansion for her, and she has a Mercedes-Benz, and you're just coming here and giving me some little crap, you know? So, anyway, like you said earlier, when we started, we have to offer ourselves grace, because they don't understand.
125
00:17:35.430 --> 00:17:52.449
Dr. Esther Bubb: They don't, yes, exactly. Can you share an example, Sonia, we're changing a behavior, right? So not just a process, like, alright, this is our new system, but, like, our actual behaviors led to better outcomes for your residents, and then what specifically changed that made that difference?
126
00:17:54.010 --> 00:17:58.190
Sonia ----: So, a lot of times, we have people who…
127
00:17:58.510 --> 00:18:03.719
Sonia ----: don't know that their voice is power, right?
128
00:18:04.740 --> 00:18:15.359
Sonia ----: that they can advocate on issues.
134
00:18:36.260 --> 00:18:43.370
Sonia ----: Where people don't understand that they can advocate on their behalf, right? So, whether it's…
135
00:18:44.030 --> 00:18:50.160
Sonia ----: is, you know, like, we had an issue in Prince George's County where, seniors.
136
00:18:50.160 --> 00:18:50.540
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
137
00:18:50.540 --> 00:18:55.339
Sonia ----: Living in… it's supposed to be affordable housing.
138
00:18:55.340 --> 00:18:56.300
Dr. Esther Bubb: Right?
139
00:18:56.300 --> 00:19:09.710
Sonia ----: And the landlord was raising the rent to, like, wazoo, like, 20-30% every year. Like, these people are on fixed income. They didn't realize they could come and make action to change it.
140
00:19:09.710 --> 00:19:10.100
Dr. Esther Bubb: Mmm…
141
00:19:10.100 --> 00:19:20.309
Sonia ----: And until they could see that, until I kept on going. I remember the first time I went to the house, remember the one I told this little lady about, you know, her needing to go to the hospital?
142
00:19:20.310 --> 00:19:36.769
Sonia ----: So I went to the apartment complex, and she says, oh, they're gonna call the cops on you. I said, I've been arrested at better places, right? And so I said, I'm gonna still come, I don't care if they arrest me. But I kept on coming. What I would do is, when I had something to talk to them.
143
00:19:36.850 --> 00:19:52.179
Sonia ----: each and every one of those doors, I will leave a leaflet, right? I could have left it at the lobby, I could have left it just in the, you know, with the management. I went to each and every one of their doors, listened to them, right? And let them know
144
00:19:52.320 --> 00:20:08.309
Sonia ----: You can come whenever there is a hearing about, you know, affordable housing or rental increase, come. They came, and they were able to advocate a 6% every 2 years, which was better than just having to pay
145
00:20:08.310 --> 00:20:24.400
Sonia ----: 10-20% on fixed income. So, you know, they were able to see that their voice mattered. And also, even now in the immigrant community, where we have, you know, a lot of immigrants are all about parties, going to church, or going to work.
146
00:20:24.490 --> 00:20:27.579
Sonia ----: But now they realize now they're the ones being cooked.
147
00:20:27.770 --> 00:20:35.070
Sonia ----: Now, they're coming out to talk, but, like, you know, a lot of times, I don't know if you've watched what I share on Facebook, I'm usually, like.
148
00:20:35.070 --> 00:20:35.460
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
149
00:20:35.460 --> 00:20:37.890
Sonia ----: Going to a mosque, right?
150
00:20:38.200 --> 00:20:38.800
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
151
00:20:38.800 --> 00:20:41.370
Sonia ----: I just shared to you, I just came from church.
152
00:20:41.370 --> 00:20:41.690
Dr. Esther Bubb: Okay.
153
00:20:42.170 --> 00:20:47.809
Sonia ----: Right? But I realized, having to get these people to come, I had to become one of them.
154
00:20:48.290 --> 00:21:06.150
Sonia ----: in the midst and talk to them, and the more they saw me, the more they became comfortable, and now they're out there trying to talk and change the trajectory of their lives. Because I tell them, you're thinking about back home. A lot of them, oh, this party, that party, this thing, that thing.
155
00:21:06.150 --> 00:21:08.520
Sonia ----: But we've had our children, your daughter.
156
00:21:08.520 --> 00:21:21.499
Sonia ----: as much as you would say she's your daughter, she recognized that you are from wherever, right? She would never go there. She would never pack herself and go stay there, right? She's an American, right?
157
00:21:21.500 --> 00:21:26.480
Sonia ----: As immigrants, we have to speak for our children, because they are uniquely
158
00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:41.250
Sonia ----: American, but not uniquely that full American, because of our culture, they have everything that we put in them, that they have to come and, like, thrive in an American society, and we have to be the voices to explain who our children are.
159
00:21:41.250 --> 00:21:52.800
Sonia ----: Right? That our children, we don't want them to be mediocre, right? We want them to be ex… I don't think I want my children to be C and D student, right? B and A, right?
160
00:21:52.800 --> 00:21:53.590
Dr. Esther Bubb: Exactly, yeah.
161
00:21:53.590 --> 00:22:02.049
Sonia ----: And so, we have to be that voice, and now we're getting our immigrant communities, we're getting our seniors, we're getting people who…
162
00:22:02.680 --> 00:22:05.460
Sonia ----: In the past, never thought they could talk.
163
00:22:05.580 --> 00:22:15.910
Sonia ----: They're coming up and talking now, so, you know, being, like I said, being out there and having them see that it's possible is making it possible that they're changing their behaviors.
164
00:22:16.480 --> 00:22:29.720
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, I love that, Sonia, because, again, it goes back to your care, right? You cared enough to go to each and every door, thinking of each person individually, thinking, that they need the information, and it makes me think of, like, equity, Sonia.
165
00:22:30.070 --> 00:22:46.400
Dr. Esther Bubb: access and community impact, and you're having such a grand impact on your community and your constituents and your neighbors and the people, your residents, right? And it's making me, you know, I'm asking you this, but I'm thinking of it also on the other end of the spectrum. So, like, what…
166
00:22:46.400 --> 00:22:57.230
Dr. Esther Bubb: What are some of the things you do, Sonia, to make sure that the services you provide are not just available, but, like, accessible, right, and equitable, so people can get to you, they can get to the services.
167
00:22:57.230 --> 00:23:09.079
Dr. Esther Bubb: But to your point about immigrants getting out there and joining the cause, it's also them accessing the knowledge, right? So if you go out there, you're here and you get the knowledge. So, what are your thoughts on access in both
168
00:23:09.240 --> 00:23:19.930
Dr. Esther Bubb: Both fronts, on both fronts, so that they can access the locations, the services, but they can also access that knowledge, and be informed, and be able to participate and lend their voice to the cause.
169
00:23:20.960 --> 00:23:23.380
Sonia ----: So, like you said.
170
00:23:24.050 --> 00:23:35.729
Sonia ----: you have to be… because a lot of people in our immigrant communities, right? I'll take, for example, as a Sierra Leonean, in Sierra Leone, you're not…
171
00:23:35.860 --> 00:23:48.690
Sonia ----: supposed to talk to authority, right? Yeah. When someone in authority says something to you, you're supposed to shrivel and just do what they're supposed to do, or do what they told you to do.
172
00:23:48.690 --> 00:23:49.060
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
173
00:23:49.060 --> 00:23:57.070
Sonia ----: Well, and so that same behavior, we're practicing it in America, which is different, right? So in America, we're…
174
00:23:57.440 --> 00:24:02.530
Sonia ----: You're supposed to come and say,
180
00:24:18.040 --> 00:24:25.880
Sonia ----: I'll give you an example for, like, with our… within our immigrant communities, we are not…
181
00:24:26.760 --> 00:24:29.079
Sonia ----: We are not equipped, right?
182
00:24:29.890 --> 00:24:40.270
Sonia ----: To stand up to authority, because from where we come from, we don't… we're not able to challenge, or we're not allowed, or we're not encouraged to… to challenge
183
00:24:40.490 --> 00:24:47.489
Sonia ----: authority, right? If the minister said for you to roll down the hill, you just put your shoes on, and just roll down the hill.
184
00:24:47.490 --> 00:24:47.920
Dr. Esther Bubb: him.
185
00:24:47.920 --> 00:24:58.559
Sonia ----: And you roll in the direction they told you, right? But in America, you're supposed to at least, at the very least, say, I don't like you telling me to go down the hill.
186
00:24:58.610 --> 00:25:08.010
Sonia ----: Right? Even if you end up doing it, but you say, I don't like the way you're telling me to go down the hill. Can I do it a different way? Can I walk down the hill, right?
187
00:25:08.010 --> 00:25:08.450
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
188
00:25:08.450 --> 00:25:20.900
Sonia ----: And that's what we're trying to do, change those behaviors within our immigrant community, because a lot of times, we come, we're so focused, like I said, about back home, and we don't think about where we are.
189
00:25:20.900 --> 00:25:36.360
Sonia ----: Right? That we can go and access these information, whether it's about immigration, whether it's about school, right? Whether it's about our housing situation, whether it's… you know, another thing I've been thinking.
190
00:25:36.360 --> 00:25:40.989
Sonia ----: Where we… our lack of knowledge is getting us into trouble, right?
191
00:25:40.990 --> 00:25:41.540
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
192
00:25:41.680 --> 00:25:45.320
Sonia ----: Is that when it comes to the court system, Right?
193
00:25:45.320 --> 00:25:46.040
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
194
00:25:46.040 --> 00:25:57.570
Sonia ----: Because a lot of times, we just say, okay, I don't have the money to go hire a good lawyer. So we get a public defender, and the public defender says, you know what?
195
00:25:58.620 --> 00:26:02.629
Sonia ----: You don't want to go to jail, right? Yeah, I don't want to go to jail. Who wants to go to jail?
196
00:26:02.920 --> 00:26:06.050
Sonia ----: Just do 30 days, whatever.
197
00:26:06.090 --> 00:26:25.559
Sonia ----: And that's gonna come away from you, right? But a public defender doesn't realize that a regular-born American citizen versus an immigrant has a green card, it's two different things, right? So the immigrant goes ahead and pleads guilty to whatever, you know, takes the plea agreement.
198
00:26:25.830 --> 00:26:30.659
Sonia ----: And then now they're faced with being shipped back home, because now…
199
00:26:30.900 --> 00:26:38.090
Sonia ----: you know, in Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania is very much, you know, a felony or whatever. Pennsylvania is quick to try to get you out.
200
00:26:38.130 --> 00:26:58.140
Sonia ----: Right? And so here it is, you thought you'd gotten that trouble out of your head, right? And then you're… you're coming in and facing everything else. So I've gotten into now that expungement, not only for our American-born citizen, but our regular immigrants, because expungement is going to be
201
00:26:58.140 --> 00:27:01.959
Sonia ----: that key that keeps them glued to America, right? You know?
202
00:27:01.960 --> 00:27:02.370
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
203
00:27:02.370 --> 00:27:16.570
Sonia ----: An American… an American would say, okay, I have this… this issue. Okay, well, let's go do an expungement. And then you'll be able to get your job. You know, there are ways where, if you have a criminal record.
204
00:27:16.590 --> 00:27:22.350
Sonia ----: you're… they're not supposed to discriminate, right? So making it equitable and… and… and…
205
00:27:22.350 --> 00:27:36.710
Sonia ----: and accessible to our immigrant community, that's where my voice starts, like, merging between, you know, understanding where you come from and understanding where you are. That's where the merge came, you know, where, you know, I'm over there running my mouth all the time.
206
00:27:36.840 --> 00:27:46.319
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. Yeah, no, no, you shared so many valuable points there, Sonia, but the one that's really sitting with me is, you know, knowing where you're from and knowing where you are, right?
207
00:27:46.320 --> 00:27:46.720
Sonia ----: So it really…
208
00:27:46.720 --> 00:27:50.250
Dr. Esther Bubb: Reminds me of this, you know, old age, adage,
209
00:27:50.280 --> 00:28:14.650
Dr. Esther Bubb: when you're in Rome, do as the Romans do. It makes you think when you're grenadas, do as Grenadians do. When you're in the U.S, you know, do as the Americans do. So, it's like adapting to where we are, and shifting our mindset and our beliefs, and, you know, how we were taught growing up, because you mentioned, you know, you just do as you were told, and we have the same background that we heard from parents, you know, when I was growing up, speak when you're spoken to, answer when you're called, right? Essentially the same thing you just said.
210
00:28:14.740 --> 00:28:34.449
Dr. Esther Bubb: And so, we have to be able to know, like, here, we need to speak up, we need to share a voice, we need to learn, we need to be educated. Also, Sonia, like, back home, and I feel you would say the same, it's like, you just swallow what you hear, you just believe it, you don't investigate, you don't research, you don't challenge, right? As you just said, we have to challenge sometimes. Alright, I heard what you said, but
211
00:28:34.500 --> 00:28:39.489
Dr. Esther Bubb: I don't like the way you're asking me to do it, or I'd prefer to do it this way, you know?
212
00:28:39.760 --> 00:28:40.669
Dr. Esther Bubb: So I think it's a lot.
213
00:28:40.670 --> 00:28:41.019
Sonia ----: out of blue.
214
00:28:41.020 --> 00:28:54.509
Dr. Esther Bubb: things that can fuel change, and how we can support ourselves, our constituents, or our fellow immigrants, our neighbors, our children, right? You know, as leaders, and based on our experiences and knowledge, yeah.
215
00:28:56.310 --> 00:29:06.669
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, so you shared a lot there, Sonia. Is there anything else you would share in terms of shifts or changes we need to make as leaders to better meet the needs of our communities?
216
00:29:09.120 --> 00:29:16.829
Sonia ----: I think, one of the things as… as leaders in our communities is that understanding
217
00:29:17.340 --> 00:29:24.249
Sonia ----: what your community actually needs, right? Because, like, I'll give an example.
218
00:29:25.120 --> 00:29:28.200
Sonia ----: When you look at full drives, right?
219
00:29:28.510 --> 00:29:44.470
Sonia ----: The basic food drive gets corn flakes, the canned foods, the beans, the packaged beans, the non-perishables, right? Yeah. But gift to an immigrant, they don't know what to do with that, right?
220
00:29:44.470 --> 00:29:59.270
Sonia ----: Right. So, understanding what the community that you serve, whether it's an immigrant community or whether it's Native American-born community, what they actually need. Because I cannot give an immigrant community, packaged food.
221
00:29:59.270 --> 00:30:06.439
Sonia ----: Because they will look at you like, what the heck do I do with, what you call it, Vienna sausage, right?
222
00:30:06.440 --> 00:30:07.799
Dr. Esther Bubb: Right, right.
225
00:30:13.930 --> 00:30:17.449
Sonia ----: Like, what would I do with a package of Vienna sausage, right?
226
00:30:17.450 --> 00:30:17.850
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
227
00:30:18.040 --> 00:30:21.329
Sonia ----: So we have to understand the communities that we serve.
228
00:30:21.520 --> 00:30:33.629
Sonia ----: And be able to advocate based on what the true needs of those communities are. Whether it's saying, well, you know, like my community, we have a community garden, right?
229
00:30:33.630 --> 00:30:33.990
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
230
00:30:33.990 --> 00:30:43.329
Sonia ----: And usually what they plant is just peppers and tomatoes, but then we have a growing Hispanic community, right, in my community.
231
00:30:43.580 --> 00:30:53.130
Sonia ----: We need to give them some space to grow whatever the heck they grow. If it's yucca, whether it's whatever else that's gonna help them feel like home, we have to start
232
00:30:53.130 --> 00:31:06.580
Sonia ----: talking based on what our community needs, and we only know it if we go out in the community and actually talk to the people, like you said. Always talking, always listening, and always being a part of the conversation.
233
00:31:06.810 --> 00:31:19.819
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, so on that note, I have a story to share, and you'll appreciate it, Sonia, but it goes along with what you're saying, knowing the people we're serving, knowing their history, knowing their background, knowing their culture, knowing what's important to them. It makes me think of cultural humility, like.
234
00:31:19.940 --> 00:31:30.250
Dr. Esther Bubb: not necessarily cultural competence, like, alright, I have to know every single thing about this culture, but just being curious enough and inquisitive enough to ask and learn, right? So, I remember supporting a team
235
00:31:30.490 --> 00:31:36.989
Dr. Esther Bubb: in the past, who was supporting a child, you know, with an IEP, so special education student preschooler, so 3 to 5.
236
00:31:37.050 --> 00:32:00.409
Dr. Esther Bubb: And, the team in the IEP meeting was just really talking to the mom. So the mom is African, right? The child was born here, but, you know, that African culture. And so they eat with their hands. And so the team just kept pressing and pushing to the mom that, alright, we need to teach your daughter how to eat with a fork, and to the mom, this was not something that was important to the mom in that moment. That was not her priority, right?
237
00:32:00.410 --> 00:32:13.070
Dr. Esther Bubb: Because eating with a fork was just not something that was important to her in her culture. The other things that were important to her was a missed opportunity for the team to find out and really prioritize on that. Alright, we can work on that later, but in this moment.
238
00:32:13.070 --> 00:32:15.170
Dr. Esther Bubb: It wasn't a priority for the child, so…
239
00:32:15.170 --> 00:32:27.670
Dr. Esther Bubb: And for the moms, so really understanding what the needs are. I really like that you share that, because sometimes we overlook that, and we put what our perspectives are on them, and expect them, and want them to do the same, you know?
240
00:32:28.520 --> 00:32:32.859
Sonia ----: Yeah, we have to learn to be culturally sensitive, right?
241
00:32:32.860 --> 00:32:33.240
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
242
00:32:33.240 --> 00:32:46.200
Sonia ----: also religiously sensitive, because where you have the… where you have the cross of, you know, you could, like, the mother you were talking about, you know, she could have been an African Muslim, right?
243
00:32:46.200 --> 00:32:46.520
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
244
00:32:46.520 --> 00:32:58.139
Sonia ----: It's another different perspective versus, you know, her being an African Christian, or… like, we always have to be culturally sensitive, because
245
00:32:58.140 --> 00:33:13.529
Sonia ----: as Americans, we just think things have to go the way as an American, right? You know, you eat with your spoon, you know, you come home, you talk, you do whatever, and as we're talking, I'm thinking, you know, where we have that…
246
00:33:13.960 --> 00:33:16.439
Sonia ----: Me and you, I know we have that, where.
247
00:33:16.440 --> 00:33:16.850
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
248
00:33:16.850 --> 00:33:29.079
Sonia ----: Back home, you're not supposed to look at your family in the eye, right? But in America, if you don't look me in my eye, you are lying to me, and you… I don't believe a word you're saying, right?
249
00:33:29.080 --> 00:33:30.080
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yep, yep.
250
00:33:30.080 --> 00:33:34.180
Sonia ----: how do we… how do we fight that? Right? How do we fight that?
251
00:33:34.180 --> 00:33:34.510
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
252
00:33:34.510 --> 00:33:53.609
Sonia ----: as you can see, as we're doing an interview, I'm, like, looking away and trying to look at you, looking away and trying to look at you, because, like, we're caught in the middle of a culture, culture shift, a paradigm, right? We're, like, we're, like, standing on two… two shifts, like, two… two plates, and… Yeah.
253
00:33:53.730 --> 00:33:58.319
Sonia ----: And so we can be culturally sensitive, and we have to, like…
254
00:33:59.080 --> 00:34:02.789
Sonia ----: Extend to other people. Understanding, you know.
255
00:34:02.960 --> 00:34:09.860
Sonia ----: Some people, to what to me might seem very weird, might be just their cultural norm, right?
256
00:34:09.860 --> 00:34:10.960
Dr. Esther Bubb: It's accepting.
257
00:34:10.969 --> 00:34:19.509
Sonia ----: You know, the mother, like you said, shared earlier, her… my priority is for me, my children, to get to know their culture, right?
258
00:34:19.929 --> 00:34:24.809
Sonia ----: And with that, that also meant that I had to teach some Creole, right?
259
00:34:24.810 --> 00:34:25.170
Dr. Esther Bubb: Right.
260
00:34:25.179 --> 00:34:38.349
Sonia ----: But when you go in and you're answering, and I have a child who does IEP, but when you go in and answer some of those questions, it's like, you technically have to, like, lie and say, I fit in this box, but my child really.
261
00:34:38.350 --> 00:34:38.730
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes.
262
00:34:39.030 --> 00:34:45.959
Sonia ----: My child don't quite fit in that box, and I don't quite quit quite… I don't even know what box I fit in.
263
00:34:45.969 --> 00:34:46.349
Dr. Esther Bubb: Nope.
264
00:34:46.350 --> 00:34:54.499
Sonia ----: I'm, like, the little middle of the pie, and my foot is all everywhere, and my child is, like, standing next to me, because they quite…
265
00:34:54.500 --> 00:35:11.699
Sonia ----: know that they're American, they know they're American, but, like, they don't quite understand the American culture, because I'm trying to busy infusing my African culture, like, scraping it in their head, right? And America's like, no, no, no, no, no, it's like, you can't…
266
00:35:11.780 --> 00:35:16.979
Sonia ----: So, try to be culturally sensitive, and understanding that
267
00:35:17.170 --> 00:35:34.750
Sonia ----: people are people, and you have to meet them where they are. Regardless of what you serve, or regardless of what you bring, someone will not be willing to accept you if they can't relate to you. So you have to be relatable when you offer service. If you don't… if you're not relatable.
268
00:35:35.390 --> 00:35:44.470
Sonia ----: You can… you can… you can be Moses and part the water and be able to solve all their problems, but if they don't… can relate to you, it's for nothing.
269
00:35:44.640 --> 00:35:49.539
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, that is… that is so true. To be acceptable, you have to be relatable. I love that. Yeah.
270
00:35:50.900 --> 00:36:08.200
Dr. Esther Bubb: So that's another takeaway for me, Sonia, from everything you've shared. So to close us out, right, what is one Monday morning move, or a specific behavior that listeners can implement immediately to start creating meaningful change, whether it's within themselves, their work space, or their communities?
271
00:36:09.300 --> 00:36:13.080
Sonia ----: You have to start with yourself, right?
272
00:36:13.220 --> 00:36:22.650
Sonia ----: You have to offer yourself grace. Each day, even though it's 7 days, it repeats itself. Every year, we have the same… it looks like a cycle.
273
00:36:22.690 --> 00:36:37.039
Sonia ----: Each day is different. As a woman, as a mother, I offer myself that grace because I don't understand anything. Every day is something new, and I'm willing to learn, right? I'm willing to take that time to
274
00:36:37.190 --> 00:36:38.520
Sonia ----: come home.
275
00:36:38.640 --> 00:36:50.489
Sonia ----: decompress, right? We don't have to be going 24-7. Even the machines in the hospitals, even the clouds, take time to refresh.
276
00:36:50.900 --> 00:36:51.320
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
277
00:36:51.320 --> 00:36:59.630
Sonia ----: If a call can refresh, you need to offer yourself that grace to just shut down and go and, like.
278
00:37:00.270 --> 00:37:11.030
Sonia ----: do something, take yourself away, and then come back and say, okay, yeah, where did I log off? What did I last do? Take your time to… to…
279
00:37:11.400 --> 00:37:14.659
Sonia ----: To understand that every day's different.
280
00:37:14.770 --> 00:37:33.690
Sonia ----: Right? That you have an opportunity to do something different the next day, even if you're facing the same challenge. And then offer your children, if your mothers, or your aunts, or, you know, your uncles, or whatever, offer your family member that listen ear.
281
00:37:33.690 --> 00:37:38.419
Sonia ----: Right? Because at the end of the day, Somebody needs to listen.
282
00:37:38.760 --> 00:37:47.130
Sonia ----: Right? Somebody needs to listen, and somebody needs to talk. Right? And all some people need is just to have somebody listen to them.
283
00:37:47.340 --> 00:38:00.680
Sonia ----: Right? It's not about them, you trying to solve their problem. Just listen to them, make them understand that they're human, make them understand that they're valued, make them understand that they're loved.
284
00:38:00.690 --> 00:38:07.650
Sonia ----: Right? And then, you know, the rest, just leave it up to them. For me, I pray. I wake up early in the morning, I pray.
285
00:38:07.650 --> 00:38:08.070
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah.
286
00:38:08.070 --> 00:38:23.449
Sonia ----: Right? Some people say, why do you get up early? I get up because I want to pray, because I want to first connect with God, right? When I connect with God, or whatever higher power, or whatever spiritual power, even if it's not coming… waking up and praying, you may not have to do that.
287
00:38:23.450 --> 00:38:29.149
Sonia ----: You may just have to take that time to just reflect on what you need to do for the day.
288
00:38:29.150 --> 00:38:39.219
Sonia ----: Right? Plan. You know, mine is praying, but you can do another P, plan, right? Plan your day ahead, so that you're not overwhelmed, because you can plan.
289
00:38:39.280 --> 00:38:48.900
Sonia ----: But things can change, but at least you know what a map looks like for you, so that you don't become too overwhelmed. So, offer yourself grace, and always be thankful.
290
00:38:49.420 --> 00:38:55.929
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, I love that. Offer yourself grace, be thankful. You also said step away, refresh, give yourself a break.
291
00:38:56.320 --> 00:39:14.199
Sonia ----: just think about it. When you look up in the sky, the cloud refreshes, right? They move, but they slow down, right? Even your iCloud, it refreshes. It doesn't just keep going, right? It refreshes all for yourself grace in that time.
292
00:39:14.360 --> 00:39:28.320
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, wonderful. Well, Sonia, thank you so, so much for joining, like I said, especially taking your time in Africa to spend with me. I wish you all the best, really good work, what you're doing, Sonia. Really proud of you, too.
293
00:39:28.320 --> 00:39:29.970
Sonia ----: Which I am proud of you too, Esther.
294
00:39:29.970 --> 00:39:34.069
Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, all the advocacy and all that stuff, so I wish you nothing but the best.
295
00:39:34.470 --> 00:39:38.650
Sonia ----: Thank you very much, and always reach out. I'm always here. Thanks.
296
00:39:38.650 --> 00:39:39.830
Dr. Esther Bubb: Wonderful. Thank you.
297
00:39:39.830 --> 00:39:41.250
Sonia ----: Okay, bye-bye.
Outro
Thank you for listening to Behaviorally Speaking: Leadership for Change-Makers. Be sure to visit esthercbubbabaservices.com/blog for today's companion blog and additional leadership resources. Until next time, create the conditions for growth wherever you lead. I'm Dr. Esther Bubb. Stay inspired.
