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HELEN ANTROBUS: Back When is
sponsored by CEWE, the National
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Trust's photo printing partner.
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Every image captures a story.
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DAN ELLIN: A target would be
sent down to the squadrons, to
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the RAF stations, and they would
pretty much choose their own
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route, and they would navigate
to what they thought was the
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target. Because they were using
a map and a stopwatch, still
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using sextants and taking star
shots to work out where they
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were.
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Although the air crew would come
back and say we saw our bombs go
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down on the target, quite often
they were bombing what they
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thought was the target, but they
could be tens of miles away from
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where they were meant to be
bombing.
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JAMES GRASBY : Hughenden Manor
in Buckinghamshire is a house
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with secrets. The historic
building attracts thousands of
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visitors, but underneath its
grand exterior, these walls hold
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a big secret that lay hidden for
decades. A chance encounter
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between some sleuthing
volunteers and a mysterious
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visitor became a catalyst for a
fascinating history to be
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revealed.
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Because in World War II,
Hughenden Manor became a secret
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base for the Air Ministry to
produce target maps for RAF
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Bomber Command, and the workers
here were carrying out vital and
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at times harrowing work that
aided the war effort in Europe.
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Have you ever imagined being a
fly on the wall of history? Join
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me for an inside view of the
stories of people, places and
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moments that made us.
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I'm historian James Grasby. Lean
in for a tale from time back
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when.
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The National Trust works with
academics who help us dig into
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our histories. However, every so
often it's our amateur experts
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who actually uncover some of the
most surprising stories. And
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this was the experience of Mavis
Laird, who recalls the discovery
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she made when she signed up to
volunteer at Hughenden Manor.
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MAVIS LAIRD: I saw an advert in
the local paper asking for
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stewards at Hughenden Manor. I
remember walking in and just
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being amazed. It was a sunny day
and there were trees everywhere,
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lovely gardens. I spoke to Ros,
the House manager, and that was
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the beginning.
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JAMES GRASBY : To acquaint
herself with the story of the
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House and its famous former
resident, Mavis was given a
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folder.
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MAVIS LAIRD: When I opened the
folder, it did tell the story of
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Disraeli. I knew of him, but I'd
never actually read about him.
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I came back home and got my
books out and started reading.
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The story of Disraeli is... It's
fascinating.
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JAMES GRASBY : And the story of
Benjamin Disraeli is best told
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by Charlotte Clark, Hughenden's
Senior Collections and House
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Manager.
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CHARLOTTE CLARK: Hughenden is a
gothic, Victorian-looking
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building. Parapets, pinnacles,
elaborate window surrounds. I
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walk through this place every
day, and as you go in, you
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really get a sense of Disraeli
and who he is. So, follow me
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this way.
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Walking through the inner hall
and into the library, we
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remember Disraeli as a
politician today but not
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everybody knows that he was an
author. He released his first
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book anonymously and it was
initially quite well received.
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However, Disraeli was revealed
then as the author and it was
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criticised and the reason it was
criticised is because Disraeli
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had a Jewish heritage so he was
criticised for his religion and
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also it was thought that he was
making comments on a society
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that he wasn't a part of.
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JAMES GRASBY : And this was a
theme that was to continue
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throughout Disraeli's political
career.
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CHARLOTTE CLARK: His maiden
speech is famously a disaster.
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He can't be heard over all of
the name-calling. A lot of it
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kind of Anti-Semitic slurs.
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JAMES GRASBY : But despite his
treatment, Disraeli becomes
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Chancellor of the Exchequer
three times.
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And leads for two terms as
Britain's first and only Jewish
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Prime Minister. He also makes
some very influential friends.
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CHARLOTTE CLARK: The bedroom is
quite a fitting place to talk
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about Disraeli's relationship
with Queen Victoria. The twin
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portrait that we can see above
the mantelpiece depicts Queen
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Victoria as a young woman and
Albert next to her. Surrounding
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those here we've got portraits
of all her children, which seems
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a bit strange for a Disraeli's
bedroom, but actually that was
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very typical of Victoria,
sending portraits of herself and
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her family.
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JAMES GRASBY : These gifts
marked the beginning of a close
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20-year friendship. Today
Disraeli is still quoted in
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Parliament and as a society we
still feel the benefit of
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policies he brought in over 100
years ago.
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CHARLOTTE CLARK: He brings in
acts for public health, acts
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against animal cruelty, he
abolishes public execution and
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he improves sanitation in towns
and cities.
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JAMES GRASBY : And from his
difficult beginnings as an
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author Disraeli becomes one of
the highest paid and most
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anticipated authors in British
history.
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CHARLOTTE CLARK: By the end of
his life he's an incredibly
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successful author who really was
rivalling the sales of people
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like Charles Dickens.
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JAMES GRASBY : And this is the
story Mavis took pride in
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telling visitors as they passed
through the rooms at Hughendon
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Manor.
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MAVIS LAIRD: You know, people
knew the name but didn't know
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the person. So by the time I'd
finished, they knew both.
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JAMES GRASBY : That was until,
in 2004, a man entered the
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drawing room at Hughenden who
seemed to know even more about
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the manor than Mavis. And what
she'd learned from him forced
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her to rethink everything she
thought she knew about the
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manor.
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MAVIS LAIRD: I was standing in
the drawing room and he said to
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me, all these pillars weren't
here when I was here. And I
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said, the pillars have always
been there. So his son was with
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him and said, I didn't know you
were here.
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I said to him, please speak to
our House Manager because she
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would like to hear further about
what happened here. He went and
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spoke to Ros, the House Manager.
From the chance remark with him
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thinking the room had changed,
that the story, it just grew and
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grew.
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JAMES GRASBY : The mystery man
was called Victor Gregory. And
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the staff at Hughenden wanted to
understand just how he had
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acquired this detailed knowledge
of the manor. So a group of
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volunteers set out to dig a
little deeper. Mary Edwards was
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one of them. She tracked down
Victor and, armed with a tape
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recorder, she went to
investigate more. But there was
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just one problem.
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MARY EDWARDS: He said, well,
look, I'm still under the
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Official Secrets Act. And so I
can tell you about the people,
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but I can't tell you about any
of the work that we did.
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JAMES GRASBY : Mary managed to
track down Gillian Picken, who
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as a child lived at the manor
around the time Victor was
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there. Her father was head of
security, and in Mary's
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recording, Gillian recalls what
it was like to live among the
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toings and froings of
Hughenden's clandestine
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operation.
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GILLIAN PICKEN: Interspersed
with this private accommodation
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were offices of the people that
were working there. There was
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always so much going on there,
so many people toing and froing.
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My sister and I would play in
the cellar.
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There were all these mounds of
paper which made wonderful
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places to play hide-and-seek. We
never went into the offices. I
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can't ever remember anybody
saying, you must not go in
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there. There was nothing there
that would attract five, six,
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seven-year-olds, so we just let
it be.
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JAMES GRASBY : The team had
started to piece together the
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mystery at Hughenden, but to
fill in the gaps, they needed
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information from a more official
source. They applied to the MOD
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for the Official Secrets Act to
be declassified, and after
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months of waiting, their request
was granted, and Victor Gregory
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could finally talk.
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VICTOR GREGORY: I, Victor George
Gregory, wish to introduce
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myself and recall the period
between 1941 and 1945. When the
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Miller House was taken over by
the Air Ministry to produce
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secret target maps for RAF
Bomber Command.
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JAMES GRASBY : The year is 1941.
Holland, Belgium, Luxembourg and
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France are occupied by Nazi
forces, providing them with a
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formidable front line to launch
an attack on Britain.
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With the English Channel the
only barrier between British
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soil and, according to Hitler,
the imminent invasion of
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England, Britain was on edge.
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But with the German threat
stalled by their loss of aerial
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superiority in the Battle Of
Britain and from the sustained
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bombing of British cities during
the Blitz, Hitler's invasion of
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Britain seemed less imminent. He
then did something which may
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have completely changed the
trajectory of the war. Here's Dr
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Dan Ellin, the International
Bomber Command's digital
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archivist.
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DAN ELLIN: The Luftwaffe were
not going to be able to defeat
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the RAF. Russia seemed to be the
way to go. They diverted all of
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their manpower and material to
the Eastern Front.
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JAMES GRASBY : This strategy
could have given British forces
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an opportunity to invade Western
Europe, but at this point in the
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war, a land or sea offensive was
impossible.
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DAN ELLIN: The British Army had
left behind an awful lot of
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material on the beaches of
Dunkirk and it needed to build
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itself back up again. It was the
job of the Royal Navy to protect
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the ships that were coming in
convoys across the Atlantic. The
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only way there was of continuing
the war was through air power.
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JAMES GRASBY : At the time, the
Air Ministry oversaw all aerial
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activity. Under its umbrella was
Coastal Command, fighting the
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war in the Atlantic, and Fighter
Command, in those iconic
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Spitfires defending British
airspace. And then there was
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Bomber Command. It was only
Bomber Command that had the
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capacity to lead the aerial
offensive and take the war to
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Germany, and to attack enemy
facilities.
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The Air Ministry needed to
understand the effectiveness of
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their bombing campaign so far.
And for this, they commissioned
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the Butt Report.
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DAN ELLIN: Although the air
crews were coming back and
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saying that they'd seen the
bombs go and hit the target, the
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00:11:12,316 --> 00:11:16,438
Butt Report looked at over 600
photographs taken over June and
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July 1941. They carefully
analysed where the bombs were
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actually falling.
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JAMES GRASBY : The story the
Butt Report told was in complete
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contrast to the reports from
Bomber Cruise. It read, of those
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aircraft recorded as attacking
their target, only one in three
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got within five miles. Over the
French ports, it was two in
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three. Over Germany as a whole,
the proportion was one in four.
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In some cases, depending on
weather conditions and
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visibility, accuracy was as low
as one in 15.
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DAN ELLIN: At that point in the
war, the bombing offensive was
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quite haphazard. A target would
be sent down to the squadrons,
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to the RAF stations, and they
would pretty much choose their
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own route, and they would
navigate to what they thought
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was the target.
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Because they were using a map
and a stopwatch, still using
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sextants and taking star shots
to work out where they were.
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Although the air crew would come
back and say, we saw our bombs
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go down on the target, quite
often they were bombing what
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they thought was the target, but
they could be tens of miles away
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from where they were meant to be
bombing.
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JAMES GRASBY : Even though the
bombing offensive may sound like
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00:12:29,574 --> 00:12:33,057
it relied on luck rather than
science, it was in fact based on
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00:12:33,137 --> 00:12:36,921
cutting-edge surveillance
technology. In and around the
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00:12:36,961 --> 00:12:40,044
Buckinghamshire market town of
High Wycombe were a cluster of
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00:12:40,064 --> 00:12:42,686
facilities gathering vital
target intelligence.
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There was Bomber Command
Headquarters in High Wycombe
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itself, and close by was RAF
Benson. From RAF Benson,
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reconnaissance planes equipped
with 3D cameras would fly into
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enemy-occupied territory and
capture images of suspected
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military targets.
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A few miles to the south of
Bomber Command Headquarters was
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RAF Medmenum, where these aerial
reconnaissance photographs were
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analysed. It was at this
facility that some of the most
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important discoveries of the
Second World War were made.
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DAN ELLIN: They were able to
spot things like V1 and V2
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00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:25,630
sites. It was a very robust
system, yeah, it was
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00:13:25,670 --> 00:13:30,234
groundbreaking. The one step
that was missing still at this
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00:13:30,314 --> 00:13:34,177
point was being able to
successfully navigate to the
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00:13:34,197 --> 00:13:38,141
targets. Of course, for proper
navigation, even with the
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00:13:38,161 --> 00:13:41,464
systems that they developed, you
need to have accurate maps.
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00:13:42,344 --> 00:13:44,847
JAMES GRASBY : Bomber Command
needed to find a location to
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00:13:44,887 --> 00:13:48,189
make these maps. It needed to
house hundreds of personnel,
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00:13:48,330 --> 00:13:51,912
offices, photographic and
cartography studios. And also to
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00:13:51,913 --> 00:13:56,754
be close to Bomber Command, RAF
Benson and RAF Medmenham. There
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00:13:56,755 --> 00:13:58,775
was only one place that fitted
the bill.
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00:14:00,616 --> 00:14:01,316
Hughendon Manor.
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00:14:05,018 --> 00:14:05,958
Victor Gregory again.
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00:14:08,339 --> 00:14:11,181
VICTOR GREGORY: In many ways,
Hughendon Manor was an ideal
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00:14:11,281 --> 00:14:16,183
choice for this type of secret
work. Located away from the main
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00:14:16,263 --> 00:14:19,124
road and hidden behind trees and
wood.
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00:14:19,884 --> 00:14:22,526
JAMES GRASBY : Hughenden Manor
was requisitioned and codenamed
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00:14:22,846 --> 00:14:24,287
SPC Hillside.
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00:14:25,068 --> 00:14:29,390
VICTOR GREGORY: Our challenge at
SPC Hillside was to revise from
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00:14:29,551 --> 00:14:33,113
aerial photography and to
produce and print specially
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00:14:33,153 --> 00:14:38,036
designed target maps for bomber
crews on daylight and night time
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00:14:38,096 --> 00:14:38,517
raids.
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00:14:40,298 --> 00:14:42,559
JAMES GRASBY : Once Hughenden
had been identified as the
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00:14:42,579 --> 00:14:47,202
location for SPC Hillside, the
RAF wasted no time staffing the
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00:14:47,203 --> 00:14:51,245
facility. Here's Fritha Irwin. A
volunteer at Hughenden, who
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00:14:51,305 --> 00:14:53,026
helped research the Hillside
story.
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00:14:53,746 --> 00:14:56,588
FRITHA IRWIN: We had a mixture
of service personnel at
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00:14:56,628 --> 00:15:00,190
Hillside, Royal Air Force,
Women's Royal Air Force, but
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00:15:00,210 --> 00:15:04,172
there were also a number of
civilians who worked there, an
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00:15:04,212 --> 00:15:08,034
architect, there were artists,
there were cartoonists. Not many
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00:15:08,054 --> 00:15:11,336
of them had had previous
cartography experience. So it
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00:15:11,356 --> 00:15:13,637
was quite an interesting mixture
of people.
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00:15:14,438 --> 00:15:17,299
JAMES GRASBY : And the artists
used a surprisingly low-tech
258
00:15:17,379 --> 00:15:18,480
method of cartography.
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00:15:22,420 --> 00:15:24,761
BERNIE KNILL: They would
identify the key elements of the
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00:15:24,801 --> 00:15:29,243
target, trace the various
elements of the map.
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00:15:30,023 --> 00:15:32,365
JAMES GRASBY : Volunteer Bernie
Knill, who also helped to
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00:15:32,385 --> 00:15:33,725
research the Hillside story.
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00:15:36,106 --> 00:15:38,807
BERNIE KNILL: They would then go
from there to the print room,
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00:15:39,448 --> 00:15:42,249
and every night a couple of
lorries would transport them
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00:15:42,809 --> 00:15:46,931
about three miles up the road to
the underground bunker where Air
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00:15:46,991 --> 00:15:51,681
Marshal Harris coordinated and
orchestrated the entire bombing
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00:15:51,721 --> 00:15:57,405
campaign and from there the maps
were distributed to about 58
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00:15:57,505 --> 00:16:01,528
different airfields all around
East Anglia, Lincolnshire,
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00:16:01,668 --> 00:16:02,649
Southern Yorkshire, etc.
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00:16:04,330 --> 00:16:06,592
JAMES GRASBY : The rooms were
stripped of the antique books
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00:16:06,692 --> 00:16:09,093
and the paintings of royalty
from Disraeli's time at
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00:16:09,094 --> 00:16:11,955
Hughenden, and replaced with
office furniture, printing
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00:16:11,995 --> 00:16:15,037
equipment and rows and rows of
artists' easels.
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00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:21,501
CHARLOTTE CLARK: We've just
entered into the main exhibition
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00:16:21,601 --> 00:16:25,864
space, which would have been one
of the drawing offices here
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00:16:26,064 --> 00:16:28,805
where the map makers worked
during the Second World War.
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00:16:29,266 --> 00:16:31,567
JAMES GRASBY : Charlotte Clarke,
Hughenden's Senior Collections
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00:16:31,607 --> 00:16:32,267
Manager again.
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00:16:32,767 --> 00:16:34,809
CHARLOTTE CLARK: We've got it
set up as they would have had
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00:16:34,889 --> 00:16:38,751
it. So here is one of the target
maps that were created here at
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00:16:38,771 --> 00:16:42,893
Huyenden. We've got different
colours. So we've got magenta,
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00:16:43,573 --> 00:16:47,776
we've got darker magenta lines,
white squiggly lines running
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00:16:47,876 --> 00:16:51,447
through. And this is all
overlaid with concentric circles
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00:16:51,527 --> 00:16:53,230
and lots of numbers and letters.
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00:16:54,111 --> 00:16:55,773
JAMES GRASBY : As the war
progressed, so did the
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00:16:55,793 --> 00:16:59,022
navigational technology
available to bomber crews. With
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00:16:59,042 --> 00:17:02,463
systems like radar, radio
navigation and new aviation
288
00:17:02,584 --> 00:17:05,205
hardware like the Halifax and
Lancaster bombers.
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00:17:06,105 --> 00:17:07,946
DAN ELLIN: These were big
four-engined heavy bombers that
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00:17:07,966 --> 00:17:11,807
could carry a massive payload.
They were also the platforms for
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00:17:11,827 --> 00:17:16,729
these new navigation systems
such as H2S. H2S was a ground
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00:17:16,789 --> 00:17:20,211
radar system that created an
image of the ground below the
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00:17:20,271 --> 00:17:24,913
aircraft on a monitor screen.
The maps for that are very
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00:17:24,973 --> 00:17:25,693
bizarre things.
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00:17:25,694 --> 00:17:29,175
They're all funny shapes and
blocks of... Purples and reds
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00:17:29,235 --> 00:17:33,698
and dark brown colours that
correspond to the image that the
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00:17:33,738 --> 00:17:37,320
navigator could expect to see on
their screen. Despite these
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00:17:37,460 --> 00:17:40,663
incredible advances in
technology, maps were still of
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00:17:40,883 --> 00:17:44,325
vital importance to the
navigator to be able to find the
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00:17:44,345 --> 00:17:44,725
target.
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00:17:45,146 --> 00:17:47,988
JAMES GRASBY : These maps also
played a significant role in one
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00:17:48,008 --> 00:17:50,590
of Bomber Command's most
controversial tactics.
303
00:17:50,610 --> 00:17:54,812
DAN ELLIN: 1941, Bomber Command,
they would attack military
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00:17:54,872 --> 00:17:58,551
targets, docks, places like
that. Throughout the war, the
305
00:17:58,711 --> 00:18:02,754
RAF also dropped propaganda
leaflets. The message was, this
306
00:18:02,774 --> 00:18:05,255
is a leaflet today, it could be
a bomb later on.
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00:18:05,736 --> 00:18:08,497
JAMES GRASBY : But shortly after
the Butt Report, the warnings in
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00:18:08,517 --> 00:18:12,380
these leaflets became a reality
as Bomber Command changed its
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00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:12,920
tactics.
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00:18:12,921 --> 00:18:18,584
DAN ELLIN: In 1942, there was
another report that looked at
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00:18:19,004 --> 00:18:22,307
the effects of German bombing on
British cities during the Blitz.
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00:18:22,767 --> 00:18:26,509
And it calculated that an
effective way of taking the
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00:18:26,529 --> 00:18:30,897
fight to Nazi Germany would be
to bomb industrial centres, to
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00:18:30,937 --> 00:18:35,527
destroy the factories and to
destroy the homes the civilian
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00:18:35,607 --> 00:18:38,874
workers lived in. And this was
known as the de-housing policy.
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00:18:47,590 --> 00:18:50,953
They deliberately targeted large
German cities with large
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00:18:51,153 --> 00:18:56,278
civilian populations and they
deliberately created firestorms.
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00:19:06,691 --> 00:19:11,755
The high explosive bombs that
they dropped blew the roofs off
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00:19:11,775 --> 00:19:14,697
the buildings and exposed the
wooden frames and the timbers.
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00:19:14,737 --> 00:19:22,544
And then the incendiary bombs
that they dropped set fire to
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00:19:22,564 --> 00:19:22,904
those.
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00:19:25,554 --> 00:19:27,855
Occasionally these created
firestorms.
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00:19:30,195 --> 00:19:34,777
Attacks on places such as
Hamburg and Cologne. Tens of
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00:19:34,797 --> 00:19:37,958
thousands, up to 40,000 people
were killed in one night by the
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00:19:37,959 --> 00:19:38,098
bombing.
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00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:47,580
FRITHA IRWIN: The mapmakers were
very well aware of the
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00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:50,741
consequences of the maps that
they were making.
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00:19:51,021 --> 00:19:52,762
JAMES GRASBY : Volunteer Fritha
Irwin again.
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00:19:53,450 --> 00:19:56,271
FRITHA IRWIN: One mapmaker, a
lady called Kathleen Hudson,
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00:19:56,971 --> 00:20:00,152
said that when she completed a
map, she used to send up a
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00:20:00,172 --> 00:20:05,673
little prayer and say, please,
God, miss the children. So she
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00:20:05,753 --> 00:20:09,854
was very aware of it. They all
were. But I think they balanced
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00:20:10,375 --> 00:20:15,816
that by realising that it was
the only way at that time to try
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00:20:15,856 --> 00:20:18,797
and stop the awful carnage that
was going on.
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00:20:19,737 --> 00:20:22,878
DAN ELLIN: People always talk
about Bletchley Park. I think
336
00:20:23,038 --> 00:20:27,199
the work done creating the maps
is another important story that
337
00:20:27,739 --> 00:20:30,760
helped in the war effort and
people should know about. I
338
00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:33,961
first heard about it a couple of
years ago. I've been researching
339
00:20:34,241 --> 00:20:38,963
Bomber Command for quite some
time and it's not often told,
340
00:20:38,964 --> 00:20:40,283
it's not often spoken about.
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00:20:42,284 --> 00:20:45,065
JAMES GRASBY : Hughenden Manor
is now a property that tells two
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00:20:45,165 --> 00:20:49,006
stories. The story of Benjamin
Disraeli. And now in a newly
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00:20:49,146 --> 00:20:52,211
opened exhibition, the story of
Hughenden's contribution in the
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00:20:52,231 --> 00:20:53,032
Second World War.
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00:20:53,692 --> 00:20:56,994
And while the story of SPC
Hillside would likely have been
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00:20:57,054 --> 00:21:00,155
released via routine
declassification, if it wasn't
347
00:21:00,175 --> 00:21:03,517
for the interaction between a
volunteer and a visitor, the
348
00:21:03,577 --> 00:21:06,959
colourful and personal detailed
stories of people that worked at
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00:21:07,079 --> 00:21:10,421
SPC Hillside would likely have
been lost to the sands of time.
350
00:21:11,742 --> 00:21:14,143
VICTOR GREGORY: In making this
recording, I have tried to
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00:21:14,263 --> 00:21:18,205
recreate a life and times for
all concerned with Hughenden
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00:21:18,245 --> 00:21:24,783
Manor during the war years
1941-1945. I hope that it will
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00:21:24,823 --> 00:21:29,008
assist in the Living History
Project and offer my best wishes
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00:21:29,028 --> 00:21:34,134
for the future. Ex-sergeant
Victor George Gregory RAF P. S.
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00:21:35,075 --> 00:21:39,300
During my time at the Manor
House, there were no trees on
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00:21:39,301 --> 00:21:40,001
the front lawn.
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00:21:48,635 --> 00:21:50,476
JAMES GRASBY : Thanks for
listening to this episode of
358
00:21:50,556 --> 00:21:53,838
Back When. If you've enjoyed
this story, why not plan a visit
359
00:21:53,918 --> 00:21:57,341
to Hughenden Manor, looked after
by the National Trust. Please do
360
00:21:57,761 --> 00:22:01,303
leave us ratings and reviews and
get in touch with stories you'd
361
00:22:01,383 --> 00:22:06,547
love to hear at podcasts at
nationaltrust.org.uk. See you
362
00:22:06,567 --> 00:22:07,047
next time.
363
00:22:09,989 --> 00:22:13,167
HELEN ANTROBUS: This podcast is
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HELEN ANTROBUS: Back When is
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DAN ELLIN: A target would be
sent down to the squadrons, to
11
00:00:41,769 --> 00:00:46,169
the RAF stations, and they would
pretty much choose their own
12
00:00:46,289 --> 00:00:48,630
route, and they would navigate
to what they thought was the
13
00:00:48,650 --> 00:00:53,131
target. Because they were using
a map and a stopwatch, still
14
00:00:53,211 --> 00:00:56,832
using sextants and taking star
shots to work out where they
15
00:00:56,872 --> 00:00:57,072
were.
16
00:00:57,448 --> 00:01:00,370
Although the air crew would come
back and say we saw our bombs go
17
00:01:00,450 --> 00:01:03,453
down on the target, quite often
they were bombing what they
18
00:01:03,513 --> 00:01:06,775
thought was the target, but they
could be tens of miles away from
19
00:01:06,835 --> 00:01:07,996
where they were meant to be
bombing.
20
00:01:09,918 --> 00:01:12,560
JAMES GRASBY : Hughenden Manor
in Buckinghamshire is a house
21
00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:16,002
with secrets. The historic
building attracts thousands of
22
00:01:16,023 --> 00:01:19,906
visitors, but underneath its
grand exterior, these walls hold
23
00:01:19,926 --> 00:01:24,280
a big secret that lay hidden for
decades. A chance encounter
24
00:01:24,340 --> 00:01:27,041
between some sleuthing
volunteers and a mysterious
25
00:01:27,121 --> 00:01:31,103
visitor became a catalyst for a
fascinating history to be
26
00:01:31,183 --> 00:01:31,723
revealed.
27
00:01:32,043 --> 00:01:35,364
Because in World War II,
Hughenden Manor became a secret
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00:01:35,464 --> 00:01:39,185
base for the Air Ministry to
produce target maps for RAF
29
00:01:39,205 --> 00:01:42,426
Bomber Command, and the workers
here were carrying out vital and
30
00:01:42,427 --> 00:01:46,128
at times harrowing work that
aided the war effort in Europe.
31
00:01:49,921 --> 00:01:54,145
Have you ever imagined being a
fly on the wall of history? Join
32
00:01:54,146 --> 00:01:57,608
me for an inside view of the
stories of people, places and
33
00:01:57,708 --> 00:01:58,949
moments that made us.
34
00:02:02,332 --> 00:02:07,076
I'm historian James Grasby. Lean
in for a tale from time back
35
00:02:07,396 --> 00:02:07,636
when.
36
00:02:10,979 --> 00:02:14,102
The National Trust works with
academics who help us dig into
37
00:02:14,162 --> 00:02:18,028
our histories. However, every so
often it's our amateur experts
38
00:02:18,029 --> 00:02:20,909
who actually uncover some of the
most surprising stories. And
39
00:02:20,929 --> 00:02:24,450
this was the experience of Mavis
Laird, who recalls the discovery
40
00:02:24,530 --> 00:02:27,771
she made when she signed up to
volunteer at Hughenden Manor.
41
00:02:31,452 --> 00:02:34,893
MAVIS LAIRD: I saw an advert in
the local paper asking for
42
00:02:34,953 --> 00:02:39,534
stewards at Hughenden Manor. I
remember walking in and just
43
00:02:39,714 --> 00:02:43,555
being amazed. It was a sunny day
and there were trees everywhere,
44
00:02:44,376 --> 00:02:50,354
lovely gardens. I spoke to Ros,
the House manager, and that was
45
00:02:50,355 --> 00:02:50,975
the beginning.
46
00:02:52,056 --> 00:02:54,037
JAMES GRASBY : To acquaint
herself with the story of the
47
00:02:54,077 --> 00:02:57,259
House and its famous former
resident, Mavis was given a
48
00:02:57,299 --> 00:02:57,659
folder.
49
00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:01,922
MAVIS LAIRD: When I opened the
folder, it did tell the story of
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00:03:02,042 --> 00:03:07,506
Disraeli. I knew of him, but I'd
never actually read about him.
51
00:03:09,888 --> 00:03:13,730
I came back home and got my
books out and started reading.
52
00:03:14,271 --> 00:03:17,413
The story of Disraeli is... It's
fascinating.
53
00:03:19,354 --> 00:03:22,336
JAMES GRASBY : And the story of
Benjamin Disraeli is best told
54
00:03:22,436 --> 00:03:25,659
by Charlotte Clark, Hughenden's
Senior Collections and House
55
00:03:25,699 --> 00:03:26,079
Manager.
56
00:03:28,381 --> 00:03:31,263
CHARLOTTE CLARK: Hughenden is a
gothic, Victorian-looking
57
00:03:31,343 --> 00:03:35,946
building. Parapets, pinnacles,
elaborate window surrounds. I
58
00:03:35,966 --> 00:03:38,568
walk through this place every
day, and as you go in, you
59
00:03:38,569 --> 00:03:42,230
really get a sense of Disraeli
and who he is. So, follow me
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00:03:42,270 --> 00:03:42,671
this way.
61
00:03:48,820 --> 00:03:52,403
Walking through the inner hall
and into the library, we
62
00:03:52,543 --> 00:03:54,904
remember Disraeli as a
politician today but not
63
00:03:55,184 --> 00:03:58,787
everybody knows that he was an
author. He released his first
64
00:03:58,847 --> 00:04:02,349
book anonymously and it was
initially quite well received.
65
00:04:02,770 --> 00:04:06,712
However, Disraeli was revealed
then as the author and it was
66
00:04:06,753 --> 00:04:09,895
criticised and the reason it was
criticised is because Disraeli
67
00:04:09,995 --> 00:04:13,357
had a Jewish heritage so he was
criticised for his religion and
68
00:04:13,397 --> 00:04:16,119
also it was thought that he was
making comments on a society
69
00:04:16,219 --> 00:04:17,360
that he wasn't a part of.
70
00:04:17,792 --> 00:04:19,833
JAMES GRASBY : And this was a
theme that was to continue
71
00:04:19,893 --> 00:04:21,773
throughout Disraeli's political
career.
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00:04:25,174 --> 00:04:27,335
CHARLOTTE CLARK: His maiden
speech is famously a disaster.
73
00:04:27,415 --> 00:04:30,816
He can't be heard over all of
the name-calling. A lot of it
74
00:04:30,856 --> 00:04:32,676
kind of Anti-Semitic slurs.
75
00:04:32,976 --> 00:04:35,697
JAMES GRASBY : But despite his
treatment, Disraeli becomes
76
00:04:35,777 --> 00:04:37,898
Chancellor of the Exchequer
three times.
77
00:04:39,358 --> 00:04:42,659
And leads for two terms as
Britain's first and only Jewish
78
00:04:42,719 --> 00:04:46,820
Prime Minister. He also makes
some very influential friends.
79
00:04:49,976 --> 00:04:52,637
CHARLOTTE CLARK: The bedroom is
quite a fitting place to talk
80
00:04:52,697 --> 00:04:55,958
about Disraeli's relationship
with Queen Victoria. The twin
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00:04:56,018 --> 00:04:58,758
portrait that we can see above
the mantelpiece depicts Queen
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00:04:58,778 --> 00:05:02,339
Victoria as a young woman and
Albert next to her. Surrounding
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00:05:02,379 --> 00:05:06,501
those here we've got portraits
of all her children, which seems
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00:05:06,521 --> 00:05:10,282
a bit strange for a Disraeli's
bedroom, but actually that was
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00:05:10,302 --> 00:05:13,943
very typical of Victoria,
sending portraits of herself and
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00:05:13,983 --> 00:05:14,543
her family.
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00:05:15,123 --> 00:05:17,744
JAMES GRASBY : These gifts
marked the beginning of a close
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00:05:18,204 --> 00:05:21,782
20-year friendship. Today
Disraeli is still quoted in
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00:05:21,822 --> 00:05:25,184
Parliament and as a society we
still feel the benefit of
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00:05:25,224 --> 00:05:27,767
policies he brought in over 100
years ago.
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00:05:28,407 --> 00:05:31,229
CHARLOTTE CLARK: He brings in
acts for public health, acts
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00:05:31,269 --> 00:05:34,953
against animal cruelty, he
abolishes public execution and
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00:05:34,954 --> 00:05:37,995
he improves sanitation in towns
and cities.
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00:05:38,676 --> 00:05:40,397
JAMES GRASBY : And from his
difficult beginnings as an
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00:05:40,457 --> 00:05:43,580
author Disraeli becomes one of
the highest paid and most
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00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:45,862
anticipated authors in British
history.
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00:05:46,642 --> 00:05:48,344
CHARLOTTE CLARK: By the end of
his life he's an incredibly
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00:05:48,896 --> 00:05:53,118
successful author who really was
rivalling the sales of people
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00:05:53,158 --> 00:05:54,159
like Charles Dickens.
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00:05:58,121 --> 00:06:00,742
JAMES GRASBY : And this is the
story Mavis took pride in
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00:06:00,782 --> 00:06:03,544
telling visitors as they passed
through the rooms at Hughendon
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00:06:03,584 --> 00:06:03,864
Manor.
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00:06:04,505 --> 00:06:06,986
MAVIS LAIRD: You know, people
knew the name but didn't know
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00:06:07,006 --> 00:06:10,307
the person. So by the time I'd
finished, they knew both.
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00:06:11,788 --> 00:06:15,369
JAMES GRASBY : That was until,
in 2004, a man entered the
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00:06:15,409 --> 00:06:18,051
drawing room at Hughenden who
seemed to know even more about
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00:06:18,052 --> 00:06:21,312
the manor than Mavis. And what
she'd learned from him forced
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00:06:21,332 --> 00:06:23,733
her to rethink everything she
thought she knew about the
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manor.
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00:06:25,093 --> 00:06:27,634
MAVIS LAIRD: I was standing in
the drawing room and he said to
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00:06:27,635 --> 00:06:31,296
me, all these pillars weren't
here when I was here. And I
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00:06:31,297 --> 00:06:35,521
said, the pillars have always
been there. So his son was with
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00:06:35,561 --> 00:06:37,702
him and said, I didn't know you
were here.
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00:06:38,662 --> 00:06:43,003
I said to him, please speak to
our House Manager because she
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00:06:43,083 --> 00:06:46,925
would like to hear further about
what happened here. He went and
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00:06:46,985 --> 00:06:51,366
spoke to Ros, the House Manager.
From the chance remark with him
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00:06:51,906 --> 00:06:55,667
thinking the room had changed,
that the story, it just grew and
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00:06:55,707 --> 00:06:55,927
grew.
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00:06:59,868 --> 00:07:03,353
JAMES GRASBY : The mystery man
was called Victor Gregory. And
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00:07:03,354 --> 00:07:06,035
the staff at Hughenden wanted to
understand just how he had
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00:07:06,036 --> 00:07:09,036
acquired this detailed knowledge
of the manor. So a group of
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00:07:09,056 --> 00:07:13,739
volunteers set out to dig a
little deeper. Mary Edwards was
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00:07:13,859 --> 00:07:17,001
one of them. She tracked down
Victor and, armed with a tape
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00:07:17,021 --> 00:07:19,702
recorder, she went to
investigate more. But there was
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00:07:19,742 --> 00:07:20,623
just one problem.
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00:07:21,283 --> 00:07:24,665
MARY EDWARDS: He said, well,
look, I'm still under the
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00:07:24,765 --> 00:07:29,668
Official Secrets Act. And so I
can tell you about the people,
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00:07:30,348 --> 00:07:34,230
but I can't tell you about any
of the work that we did.
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00:07:35,111 --> 00:07:37,852
JAMES GRASBY : Mary managed to
track down Gillian Picken, who
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00:07:37,872 --> 00:07:40,454
as a child lived at the manor
around the time Victor was
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00:07:40,494 --> 00:07:43,796
there. Her father was head of
security, and in Mary's
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00:07:43,856 --> 00:07:46,997
recording, Gillian recalls what
it was like to live among the
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00:07:47,077 --> 00:07:49,939
toings and froings of
Hughenden's clandestine
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00:07:49,979 --> 00:07:50,499
operation.
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00:07:54,702 --> 00:07:56,903
GILLIAN PICKEN: Interspersed
with this private accommodation
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00:07:56,923 --> 00:08:00,645
were offices of the people that
were working there. There was
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00:08:00,685 --> 00:08:04,067
always so much going on there,
so many people toing and froing.
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00:08:05,747 --> 00:08:08,328
My sister and I would play in
the cellar.
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00:08:09,449 --> 00:08:12,790
There were all these mounds of
paper which made wonderful
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00:08:13,130 --> 00:08:18,853
places to play hide-and-seek. We
never went into the offices. I
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00:08:18,873 --> 00:08:21,594
can't ever remember anybody
saying, you must not go in
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00:08:21,674 --> 00:08:25,536
there. There was nothing there
that would attract five, six,
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00:08:25,636 --> 00:08:27,877
seven-year-olds, so we just let
it be.
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00:08:29,725 --> 00:08:32,147
JAMES GRASBY : The team had
started to piece together the
145
00:08:32,187 --> 00:08:35,869
mystery at Hughenden, but to
fill in the gaps, they needed
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00:08:35,929 --> 00:08:39,652
information from a more official
source. They applied to the MOD
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00:08:39,892 --> 00:08:43,434
for the Official Secrets Act to
be declassified, and after
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00:08:43,475 --> 00:08:47,037
months of waiting, their request
was granted, and Victor Gregory
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00:08:47,237 --> 00:08:48,178
could finally talk.
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00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:53,341
VICTOR GREGORY: I, Victor George
Gregory, wish to introduce
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00:08:53,381 --> 00:08:59,625
myself and recall the period
between 1941 and 1945. When the
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00:08:59,665 --> 00:09:03,547
Miller House was taken over by
the Air Ministry to produce
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00:09:03,627 --> 00:09:06,489
secret target maps for RAF
Bomber Command.
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00:09:08,290 --> 00:09:12,212
JAMES GRASBY : The year is 1941.
Holland, Belgium, Luxembourg and
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00:09:12,252 --> 00:09:15,414
France are occupied by Nazi
forces, providing them with a
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00:09:15,434 --> 00:09:18,195
formidable front line to launch
an attack on Britain.
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00:09:20,716 --> 00:09:23,238
With the English Channel the
only barrier between British
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00:09:23,318 --> 00:09:26,179
soil and, according to Hitler,
the imminent invasion of
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00:09:26,199 --> 00:09:28,341
England, Britain was on edge.
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00:09:30,265 --> 00:09:33,647
But with the German threat
stalled by their loss of aerial
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00:09:33,707 --> 00:09:36,950
superiority in the Battle Of
Britain and from the sustained
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00:09:37,010 --> 00:09:40,272
bombing of British cities during
the Blitz, Hitler's invasion of
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00:09:40,292 --> 00:09:44,735
Britain seemed less imminent. He
then did something which may
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00:09:44,775 --> 00:09:49,138
have completely changed the
trajectory of the war. Here's Dr
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00:09:49,178 --> 00:09:52,060
Dan Ellin, the International
Bomber Command's digital
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00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:52,680
archivist.
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00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:55,602
DAN ELLIN: The Luftwaffe were
not going to be able to defeat
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00:09:55,622 --> 00:10:00,265
the RAF. Russia seemed to be the
way to go. They diverted all of
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00:10:00,266 --> 00:10:02,886
their manpower and material to
the Eastern Front.
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00:10:03,186 --> 00:10:05,707
JAMES GRASBY : This strategy
could have given British forces
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00:10:05,807 --> 00:10:08,907
an opportunity to invade Western
Europe, but at this point in the
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00:10:08,947 --> 00:10:11,688
war, a land or sea offensive was
impossible.
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00:10:11,888 --> 00:10:14,729
DAN ELLIN: The British Army had
left behind an awful lot of
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00:10:14,789 --> 00:10:18,910
material on the beaches of
Dunkirk and it needed to build
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00:10:18,930 --> 00:10:23,011
itself back up again. It was the
job of the Royal Navy to protect
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00:10:23,012 --> 00:10:26,532
the ships that were coming in
convoys across the Atlantic. The
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00:10:26,572 --> 00:10:29,913
only way there was of continuing
the war was through air power.
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00:10:30,714 --> 00:10:33,716
JAMES GRASBY : At the time, the
Air Ministry oversaw all aerial
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00:10:33,776 --> 00:10:37,798
activity. Under its umbrella was
Coastal Command, fighting the
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00:10:37,799 --> 00:10:40,800
war in the Atlantic, and Fighter
Command, in those iconic
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00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:44,322
Spitfires defending British
airspace. And then there was
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00:10:44,382 --> 00:10:47,884
Bomber Command. It was only
Bomber Command that had the
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00:10:47,904 --> 00:10:50,865
capacity to lead the aerial
offensive and take the war to
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00:10:50,946 --> 00:10:53,627
Germany, and to attack enemy
facilities.
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00:10:55,848 --> 00:10:58,870
The Air Ministry needed to
understand the effectiveness of
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00:10:58,890 --> 00:11:02,131
their bombing campaign so far.
And for this, they commissioned
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00:11:02,411 --> 00:11:03,352
the Butt Report.
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00:11:07,294 --> 00:11:09,334
DAN ELLIN: Although the air
crews were coming back and
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00:11:09,414 --> 00:11:12,296
saying that they'd seen the
bombs go and hit the target, the
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00:11:12,316 --> 00:11:16,438
Butt Report looked at over 600
photographs taken over June and
191
00:11:16,439 --> 00:11:21,160
July 1941. They carefully
analysed where the bombs were
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00:11:21,180 --> 00:11:21,900
actually falling.
193
00:11:22,060 --> 00:11:25,203
JAMES GRASBY : The story the
Butt Report told was in complete
194
00:11:25,263 --> 00:11:29,944
contrast to the reports from
Bomber Cruise. It read, of those
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00:11:30,084 --> 00:11:34,206
aircraft recorded as attacking
their target, only one in three
196
00:11:34,626 --> 00:11:38,427
got within five miles. Over the
French ports, it was two in
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00:11:38,507 --> 00:11:43,628
three. Over Germany as a whole,
the proportion was one in four.
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00:11:44,368 --> 00:11:46,729
In some cases, depending on
weather conditions and
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00:11:46,789 --> 00:11:50,770
visibility, accuracy was as low
as one in 15.
200
00:11:53,991 --> 00:11:56,552
DAN ELLIN: At that point in the
war, the bombing offensive was
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00:11:56,632 --> 00:12:00,906
quite haphazard. A target would
be sent down to the squadrons,
202
00:12:00,907 --> 00:12:05,190
to the RAF stations, and they
would pretty much choose their
203
00:12:05,270 --> 00:12:07,652
own route, and they would
navigate to what they thought
204
00:12:07,653 --> 00:12:08,353
was the target.
205
00:12:08,713 --> 00:12:12,196
Because they were using a map
and a stopwatch, still using
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00:12:12,316 --> 00:12:15,819
sextants and taking star shots
to work out where they were.
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00:12:16,299 --> 00:12:19,101
Although the air crew would come
back and say, we saw our bombs
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00:12:19,102 --> 00:12:22,164
go down on the target, quite
often they were bombing what
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00:12:22,204 --> 00:12:25,367
they thought was the target, but
they could be tens of miles away
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00:12:25,447 --> 00:12:26,828
from where they were meant to be
bombing.
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00:12:27,272 --> 00:12:29,554
JAMES GRASBY : Even though the
bombing offensive may sound like
212
00:12:29,574 --> 00:12:33,057
it relied on luck rather than
science, it was in fact based on
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00:12:33,137 --> 00:12:36,921
cutting-edge surveillance
technology. In and around the
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00:12:36,961 --> 00:12:40,044
Buckinghamshire market town of
High Wycombe were a cluster of
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00:12:40,064 --> 00:12:42,686
facilities gathering vital
target intelligence.
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00:12:46,389 --> 00:12:48,831
There was Bomber Command
Headquarters in High Wycombe
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00:12:48,851 --> 00:12:53,856
itself, and close by was RAF
Benson. From RAF Benson,
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00:12:54,228 --> 00:12:58,090
reconnaissance planes equipped
with 3D cameras would fly into
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00:12:58,210 --> 00:13:01,411
enemy-occupied territory and
capture images of suspected
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00:13:01,471 --> 00:13:02,311
military targets.
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00:13:03,592 --> 00:13:06,813
A few miles to the south of
Bomber Command Headquarters was
222
00:13:07,093 --> 00:13:10,835
RAF Medmenum, where these aerial
reconnaissance photographs were
223
00:13:10,895 --> 00:13:15,217
analysed. It was at this
facility that some of the most
224
00:13:15,277 --> 00:13:18,318
important discoveries of the
Second World War were made.
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00:13:19,439 --> 00:13:21,000
DAN ELLIN: They were able to
spot things like V1 and V2
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00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:25,630
sites. It was a very robust
system, yeah, it was
227
00:13:25,670 --> 00:13:30,234
groundbreaking. The one step
that was missing still at this
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00:13:30,314 --> 00:13:34,177
point was being able to
successfully navigate to the
229
00:13:34,197 --> 00:13:38,141
targets. Of course, for proper
navigation, even with the
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00:13:38,161 --> 00:13:41,464
systems that they developed, you
need to have accurate maps.
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00:13:42,344 --> 00:13:44,847
JAMES GRASBY : Bomber Command
needed to find a location to
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00:13:44,887 --> 00:13:48,189
make these maps. It needed to
house hundreds of personnel,
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00:13:48,330 --> 00:13:51,912
offices, photographic and
cartography studios. And also to
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00:13:51,913 --> 00:13:56,754
be close to Bomber Command, RAF
Benson and RAF Medmenham. There
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00:13:56,755 --> 00:13:58,775
was only one place that fitted
the bill.
236
00:14:00,616 --> 00:14:01,316
Hughendon Manor.
237
00:14:05,018 --> 00:14:05,958
Victor Gregory again.
238
00:14:08,339 --> 00:14:11,181
VICTOR GREGORY: In many ways,
Hughendon Manor was an ideal
239
00:14:11,281 --> 00:14:16,183
choice for this type of secret
work. Located away from the main
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00:14:16,263 --> 00:14:19,124
road and hidden behind trees and
wood.
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00:14:19,884 --> 00:14:22,526
JAMES GRASBY : Hughenden Manor
was requisitioned and codenamed
242
00:14:22,846 --> 00:14:24,287
SPC Hillside.
243
00:14:25,068 --> 00:14:29,390
VICTOR GREGORY: Our challenge at
SPC Hillside was to revise from
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00:14:29,551 --> 00:14:33,113
aerial photography and to
produce and print specially
245
00:14:33,153 --> 00:14:38,036
designed target maps for bomber
crews on daylight and night time
246
00:14:38,096 --> 00:14:38,517
raids.
247
00:14:40,298 --> 00:14:42,559
JAMES GRASBY : Once Hughenden
had been identified as the
248
00:14:42,579 --> 00:14:47,202
location for SPC Hillside, the
RAF wasted no time staffing the
249
00:14:47,203 --> 00:14:51,245
facility. Here's Fritha Irwin. A
volunteer at Hughenden, who
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00:14:51,305 --> 00:14:53,026
helped research the Hillside
story.
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00:14:53,746 --> 00:14:56,588
FRITHA IRWIN: We had a mixture
of service personnel at
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00:14:56,628 --> 00:15:00,190
Hillside, Royal Air Force,
Women's Royal Air Force, but
253
00:15:00,210 --> 00:15:04,172
there were also a number of
civilians who worked there, an
254
00:15:04,212 --> 00:15:08,034
architect, there were artists,
there were cartoonists. Not many
255
00:15:08,054 --> 00:15:11,336
of them had had previous
cartography experience. So it
256
00:15:11,356 --> 00:15:13,637
was quite an interesting mixture
of people.
257
00:15:14,438 --> 00:15:17,299
JAMES GRASBY : And the artists
used a surprisingly low-tech
258
00:15:17,379 --> 00:15:18,480
method of cartography.
259
00:15:22,420 --> 00:15:24,761
BERNIE KNILL: They would
identify the key elements of the
260
00:15:24,801 --> 00:15:29,243
target, trace the various
elements of the map.
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00:15:30,023 --> 00:15:32,365
JAMES GRASBY : Volunteer Bernie
Knill, who also helped to
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00:15:32,385 --> 00:15:33,725
research the Hillside story.
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00:15:36,106 --> 00:15:38,807
BERNIE KNILL: They would then go
from there to the print room,
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00:15:39,448 --> 00:15:42,249
and every night a couple of
lorries would transport them
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00:15:42,809 --> 00:15:46,931
about three miles up the road to
the underground bunker where Air
266
00:15:46,991 --> 00:15:51,681
Marshal Harris coordinated and
orchestrated the entire bombing
267
00:15:51,721 --> 00:15:57,405
campaign and from there the maps
were distributed to about 58
268
00:15:57,505 --> 00:16:01,528
different airfields all around
East Anglia, Lincolnshire,
269
00:16:01,668 --> 00:16:02,649
Southern Yorkshire, etc.
270
00:16:04,330 --> 00:16:06,592
JAMES GRASBY : The rooms were
stripped of the antique books
271
00:16:06,692 --> 00:16:09,093
and the paintings of royalty
from Disraeli's time at
272
00:16:09,094 --> 00:16:11,955
Hughenden, and replaced with
office furniture, printing
273
00:16:11,995 --> 00:16:15,037
equipment and rows and rows of
artists' easels.
274
00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:21,501
CHARLOTTE CLARK: We've just
entered into the main exhibition
275
00:16:21,601 --> 00:16:25,864
space, which would have been one
of the drawing offices here
276
00:16:26,064 --> 00:16:28,805
where the map makers worked
during the Second World War.
277
00:16:29,266 --> 00:16:31,567
JAMES GRASBY : Charlotte Clarke,
Hughenden's Senior Collections
278
00:16:31,607 --> 00:16:32,267
Manager again.
279
00:16:32,767 --> 00:16:34,809
CHARLOTTE CLARK: We've got it
set up as they would have had
280
00:16:34,889 --> 00:16:38,751
it. So here is one of the target
maps that were created here at
281
00:16:38,771 --> 00:16:42,893
Huyenden. We've got different
colours. So we've got magenta,
282
00:16:43,573 --> 00:16:47,776
we've got darker magenta lines,
white squiggly lines running
283
00:16:47,876 --> 00:16:51,447
through. And this is all
overlaid with concentric circles
284
00:16:51,527 --> 00:16:53,230
and lots of numbers and letters.
285
00:16:54,111 --> 00:16:55,773
JAMES GRASBY : As the war
progressed, so did the
286
00:16:55,793 --> 00:16:59,022
navigational technology
available to bomber crews. With
287
00:16:59,042 --> 00:17:02,463
systems like radar, radio
navigation and new aviation
288
00:17:02,584 --> 00:17:05,205
hardware like the Halifax and
Lancaster bombers.
289
00:17:06,105 --> 00:17:07,946
DAN ELLIN: These were big
four-engined heavy bombers that
290
00:17:07,966 --> 00:17:11,807
could carry a massive payload.
They were also the platforms for
291
00:17:11,827 --> 00:17:16,729
these new navigation systems
such as H2S. H2S was a ground
292
00:17:16,789 --> 00:17:20,211
radar system that created an
image of the ground below the
293
00:17:20,271 --> 00:17:24,913
aircraft on a monitor screen.
The maps for that are very
294
00:17:24,973 --> 00:17:25,693
bizarre things.
295
00:17:25,694 --> 00:17:29,175
They're all funny shapes and
blocks of... Purples and reds
296
00:17:29,235 --> 00:17:33,698
and dark brown colours that
correspond to the image that the
297
00:17:33,738 --> 00:17:37,320
navigator could expect to see on
their screen. Despite these
298
00:17:37,460 --> 00:17:40,663
incredible advances in
technology, maps were still of
299
00:17:40,883 --> 00:17:44,325
vital importance to the
navigator to be able to find the
300
00:17:44,345 --> 00:17:44,725
target.
301
00:17:45,146 --> 00:17:47,988
JAMES GRASBY : These maps also
played a significant role in one
302
00:17:48,008 --> 00:17:50,590
of Bomber Command's most
controversial tactics.
303
00:17:50,610 --> 00:17:54,812
DAN ELLIN: 1941, Bomber Command,
they would attack military
304
00:17:54,872 --> 00:17:58,551
targets, docks, places like
that. Throughout the war, the
305
00:17:58,711 --> 00:18:02,754
RAF also dropped propaganda
leaflets. The message was, this
306
00:18:02,774 --> 00:18:05,255
is a leaflet today, it could be
a bomb later on.
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JAMES GRASBY : But shortly after
the Butt Report, the warnings in
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these leaflets became a reality
as Bomber Command changed its
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tactics.
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DAN ELLIN: In 1942, there was
another report that looked at
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the effects of German bombing on
British cities during the Blitz.
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And it calculated that an
effective way of taking the
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fight to Nazi Germany would be
to bomb industrial centres, to
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destroy the factories and to
destroy the homes the civilian
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00:18:35,607 --> 00:18:38,874
workers lived in. And this was
known as the de-housing policy.
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They deliberately targeted large
German cities with large
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civilian populations and they
deliberately created firestorms.
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The high explosive bombs that
they dropped blew the roofs off
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the buildings and exposed the
wooden frames and the timbers.
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And then the incendiary bombs
that they dropped set fire to
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those.
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Occasionally these created
firestorms.
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Attacks on places such as
Hamburg and Cologne. Tens of
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00:19:34,797 --> 00:19:37,958
thousands, up to 40,000 people
were killed in one night by the
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bombing.
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FRITHA IRWIN: The mapmakers were
very well aware of the
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consequences of the maps that
they were making.
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JAMES GRASBY : Volunteer Fritha
Irwin again.
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FRITHA IRWIN: One mapmaker, a
lady called Kathleen Hudson,
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00:19:56,971 --> 00:20:00,152
said that when she completed a
map, she used to send up a
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00:20:00,172 --> 00:20:05,673
little prayer and say, please,
God, miss the children. So she
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00:20:05,753 --> 00:20:09,854
was very aware of it. They all
were. But I think they balanced
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00:20:10,375 --> 00:20:15,816
that by realising that it was
the only way at that time to try
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00:20:15,856 --> 00:20:18,797
and stop the awful carnage that
was going on.
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00:20:19,737 --> 00:20:22,878
DAN ELLIN: People always talk
about Bletchley Park. I think
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00:20:23,038 --> 00:20:27,199
the work done creating the maps
is another important story that
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00:20:27,739 --> 00:20:30,760
helped in the war effort and
people should know about. I
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00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:33,961
first heard about it a couple of
years ago. I've been researching
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00:20:34,241 --> 00:20:38,963
Bomber Command for quite some
time and it's not often told,
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00:20:38,964 --> 00:20:40,283
it's not often spoken about.
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00:20:42,284 --> 00:20:45,065
JAMES GRASBY : Hughenden Manor
is now a property that tells two
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00:20:45,165 --> 00:20:49,006
stories. The story of Benjamin
Disraeli. And now in a newly
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00:20:49,146 --> 00:20:52,211
opened exhibition, the story of
Hughenden's contribution in the
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00:20:52,231 --> 00:20:53,032
Second World War.
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00:20:53,692 --> 00:20:56,994
And while the story of SPC
Hillside would likely have been
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00:20:57,054 --> 00:21:00,155
released via routine
declassification, if it wasn't
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00:21:00,175 --> 00:21:03,517
for the interaction between a
volunteer and a visitor, the
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00:21:03,577 --> 00:21:06,959
colourful and personal detailed
stories of people that worked at
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00:21:07,079 --> 00:21:10,421
SPC Hillside would likely have
been lost to the sands of time.
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00:21:11,742 --> 00:21:14,143
VICTOR GREGORY: In making this
recording, I have tried to
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00:21:14,263 --> 00:21:18,205
recreate a life and times for
all concerned with Hughenden
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00:21:18,245 --> 00:21:24,783
Manor during the war years
1941-1945. I hope that it will
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00:21:24,823 --> 00:21:29,008
assist in the Living History
Project and offer my best wishes
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00:21:29,028 --> 00:21:34,134
for the future. Ex-sergeant
Victor George Gregory RAF P. S.
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00:21:35,075 --> 00:21:39,300
During my time at the Manor
House, there were no trees on
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00:21:39,301 --> 00:21:40,001
the front lawn.
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00:21:48,635 --> 00:21:50,476
JAMES GRASBY : Thanks for
listening to this episode of
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00:21:50,556 --> 00:21:53,838
Back When. If you've enjoyed
this story, why not plan a visit
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00:21:53,918 --> 00:21:57,341
to Hughenden Manor, looked after
by the National Trust. Please do
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00:21:57,761 --> 00:22:01,303
leave us ratings and reviews and
get in touch with stories you'd
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00:22:01,383 --> 00:22:06,547
love to hear at podcasts at
nationaltrust.org.uk. See you
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00:22:06,567 --> 00:22:07,047
next time.
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00:22:09,989 --> 00:22:13,167
HELEN ANTROBUS: This podcast is
sponsored by CEWE, Europe's
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