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I think one of the toughest things for listeners to
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do is to find the podcast that everybody's talking about
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on social media. When you go to iHeart or you
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go to Spotify and you tap it in, it doesn't
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come up. It's like, okay, I'm not going to listen
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to it. Why not make it easy for you? Arrow.net, A-R-R-O-E.net.
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It's 21 different podcasts for you to choose from. Imagine that.
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The power of choice. Are you kidding me? Arrow.net. A-R-R-O-E.net.
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Enjoy your exploration. How are you doing, sir?
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I'm doing good. It's good to be back on the show.
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Absolutely. Of course. The stories you bring are just absolutely fantastic.
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And I just love the way that you continue to
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grow as well. Not only with the podcast, but the book.
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I mean, you really do have a path and you
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keep filling it up. I love that about you, dude.
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well well thank you man where does that energy come
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from because the messages that you're bringing forward really do
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have an effect on those who are receiving it.
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Well i i think uh it it's coming from spirit
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yes um who's guiding me and and i think um
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i was put on this path about 20 years ago
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and I think like many of us, you get a
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calling and you're not sure exactly what to do with
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it or how to tackle it. And so it took
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me a while to figure it out. But once I
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figured out what I was supposed to do, I think
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you have to do what spirit is guiding you to do.
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Yeah, because so many people, they'll pick up on that spirit.
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I know that here in Charlotte, you can see it
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every day in people's eyes. They've got that energy. They're
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being creative. And I'll lean into that conversation and say,
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so are you sharing it? What do you mean, dude?
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Are you teaching people your art?
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No.
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And I'm going, oh, you're so missing out here. Oh,
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my God, John. I mean, that's the thing about it.
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You can have the gift, but if you're not sharing it,
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there's no value in it and inside your soul.
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Right. And I think that's what the vast majority of
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people do is they they keep their superpower hidden and
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they don't impact the world with it, which is exactly
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what I think we're put on here, put on the
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earth to do is to make it a better place
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through our unique talents and abilities.
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The title of the book, did it come to you before, during,
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or after? Because really, when you look at it immediately,
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you're going, hey, this is really speaking to my heart.
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Because that title, I know we're not supposed to judge
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a book by its cover, but that title gets me
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beyond the first page.
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The title actually came pretty early, but then we thought
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about changing the title. And the reason being is we
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originally thought the book would come out late last year
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or January, February this year. And then we found out
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that there were two other books coming out on Mattering.
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And so my publisher decided to hold it. And when
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we were Thinking through that, they almost changed the title
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to Worth, the one word Worth, because that's what the
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book is really about, how we're trading our self-worth to
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the systems and environments around us. But then they took
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it to Ingram and had Ingram look at a number
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of different titles and book covers and Everyone felt that
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the mattering effect really explained the book the best.
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Feeling valued. That seems to be the place where a
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lot of people are hanging their hat right now. They
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don't feel that value. The way I got around it,
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and I could be totally quacked up on this, and
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that is that I feel that it's not about me.
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It's about me recognizing them first because everybody wants to
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be recognized.
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Right. Well, I think we all inherently want to feel
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like people are valuing what we do in the world.
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But I think we're we are living now in a
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time where that pendulum has really swung the other way.
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I think what we're being valued for is what we
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keep producing and.
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Delivering.
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And I think less and less of us are feeling
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that that signal come back to us.
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So now when you talk about the quiet crisis, because
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it seems like when you say that it comes back
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to us like that, all of a sudden people do
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go into that moment of them being quiet. And then
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they either become an actor or they do everything they
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can to push people away. And that to me, you're
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talking to the wrong person, man. I'm still coming into
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that conversation if you push me away.
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Well, man, I kept trying to figure out what is
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happening to so many people. Because when we started this
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out with, what are you doing? Why are you so
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passionate about this? The words I was given were, man,
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you're supposed to help the lonely, the beaten, the broken,
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the burned out, the battered, the disengaged. And when you
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hear all that, you're like, well, that describes a lot
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of people. And we treat all these things as separate things.
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So my big question became, what if we're treating all
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the downstream symptoms of something larger? And so that is
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what I've been trying to explore now for the past
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10 years. And what I think is happening is that
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we're asking the wrong question. We keep asking what is
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happening to us when the right question might be what
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is happening around us. That is forcing this change. So
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even if you're like to your point, you don't want
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to avoid that question that you're asking me. Sometimes we
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don't even realize what the systems and environments around us
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are doing to us and have been doing to us
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for a very long time.
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Please don't move. John R. Miles is coming right back.
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There's a lot more to talk about when it comes
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to the mattering effect. The dude's also got himself a
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podcast called Passion Struck. The book is called The Matter
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in Effect. We are back with John R.
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Miles.
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Your book is such a tool to me. And what
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I mean by that is, is that I work at
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a grocery store only because I just wanted to be
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with people because I know that's where people are. Either
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you're lost, you're found, you're still trying to discover yourself.
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But the thing is, though, is that I use your
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lessons and I'll put it in a language where people
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will just sit there and I call it popping. When
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they realize that what you're sharing in your books is
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And what you're doing on your podcast is something that
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can be used in their own personal life. Dude, that's
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what it's all about. And it's like, oh, now I
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understand why I'm here at a stupid grocery store, because
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I'm using tools that other people have provided. It's like
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going to Home Depot or Lowe's, dude.
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Yeah, well, I mean, first, there's nothing more important than eating, right?
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So I started.
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Way back when in, in grocery, I loved it, man.
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That is where, that is where I really learned what
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it was meant to serve people.
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So true. You're so right about that.
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And it really became the foundation for me because, you know,
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I started out as a bagger, went to cashier, then, then,
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then I, I stocked shelves and, Then I became a
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produce manager and then worked my way up to the
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truck crew leader. But all through it, you're really doing
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it to serve the customer, right?
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So true. So true.
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Oh, yeah.
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Oh, yeah. And, you know, all of a sudden, because
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you come eye to eye with somebody who's searching for
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that meaning. And, you know, what's really interesting is I
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wonder if and I know when you're in public, somebody
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has to do this. They must see it written somewhere
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in your eyes or somewhere in your body language where
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they're attracted to you because it's almost like you've got
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something they need. Yes.
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Well, and in that situation, for sure. But I think
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what they're longing for is something much deeper than that.
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And I think for a lot of people, they're very lonely.
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And so what they don't realize is just how much, um,
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even the checkout, regardless if it's a grocery store or
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a pharmacy or a Home Depot, how important that is
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maybe to someone's day who is feeling pretty low at
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this time.
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So now you do describe inside the book that success
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and mattering are two different things, because I'm very guilty
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of telling people, you matter, you matter. I almost feel
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like that I need to change my language. Is that
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what I'm learning?
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No, I mean, I think what I was saying is
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that to feel like you matter doesn't depend on you
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being successful.
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Okay.
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In fact, I think if that is what we're searching
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for is success, I think it's going to deplete your
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sense of mattering. Because to me, mattering is tied to fulfillment,
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not necessarily success. And I think success is an outcome
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of feeling fulfilled inside. And there are lots of different
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ways that you can judge success. But I think we
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tend to put it on monetary terms or influence terms,
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where when I think of success, I really think of
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it as how... are we shifting the environments that people
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are in for the better? How are we positively changing
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people's lives? That's what I think about when I think
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of success today.
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As you lead us, are we to interrupt other people
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in the way, and I'm going to give you a
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good example of this, is that I am blessed to
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have a lot of caretakers that'll come through my line.
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And I know that they're injured. I know that they've
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given everything and they have that hollow feeling that you're
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talking about. Can I interrupt them as a leader that
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has been taught through your writing?
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Well, I think what I'm trying to do is help
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people figure out how do they restore their meaning and
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agency and the feeling of value in their own lives.
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And I think once you produce that mattering dividend in yourself,
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that's what allows you to show up differently. Whether it's
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someone in your line or in your church or in
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your Toastmasters group or in your kid's school, I think
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it changes how we show up in the rooms around us. Yeah.
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Where can people go to find out more about you, John?
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Because I love what you're doing, and I especially want
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people to go and listen to your voice on the podcast.
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I want them to hear your compassion, your empathy, and
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your drive to really help us understand this.
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Yeah, the best place they can do that is just
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to go to either passionstruck, S-T-R-U-C-K dot com, or my
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personal website, johnrmiles.com.
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And I love that. I love that you make it
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so simple for the passerby, because I always think of
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that person in the car, or the person that's at work,
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and they're afraid they're going to get caught by the
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boss because they've got the earbuds in. And even with
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your book, if I could just sit back for a
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couple of seconds, 30 or 40 seconds, to pick up
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your book, get a line, all of a sudden, now
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it's like I've been rejuvenated. And it starts with your writing.
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Well, I feel, especially in this book, I was trying
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to write it in a way that the reader really
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feels like they're sitting in the passenger seat sitting next
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to me. And I'm kind of telling them, I'm leading
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with my story because I think the concepts in the
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book to get people to want to put them into practice,
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I think they need to see it. come to fruition
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in someone else's life. So I really had to be
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vulnerable in this book about sharing a lot more of
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me than I initially thought I was going to. But
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I think by being vulnerable about what I was experiencing,
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it helps people see it in their own lives.
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All right. Now, where did you go to replenish? Because many, many,
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many times on iHeartRadio, I talk about the taker, taker,
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takers that we have in this world. And I don't
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want to feel like a taker by taking the information
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from this book. So how did you replenish yourself in
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order to get strong again? Because you did give yourself
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a lot inside these pages.
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Well, I think the first thing is, I think the
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first thing you got to do is, is like to
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forgive yourself. I, you know, I was holding on to
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a whole bunch of trauma that for me was combat induced. And,
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you know, I couldn't let that go for many years.
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So I think the first thing was figuring out, you know,
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how do I get myself beyond those stuck points that
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were holding me back? And then I think from there,
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it really kind of just trickles almost like water into
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other areas of your life. Once, once you start letting
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things go and you stop arsening the other areas of
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your life. Um, and I, I think that's the hardest
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thing to start on though, because it's, it's what keeps
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us stuck the most. Yeah.
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You got to come back to this show anytime in
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the future. You know, that door is always going to
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be open for you, sir.
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Oh man, I appreciate it. I love being on here
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the first time. And I, I appreciate that, uh, that
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the book has been meaningful to you.
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Oh my God. Yes. Oh, it absolutely has been. You
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be brilliant today. Okay.
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I will. Thank you and have a great weekend.
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I think one of the toughest things for listeners to
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do is to find the podcast that everybody's talking about
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on social media. When you go to iHeart or you
4
00:00:07.679 --> 00:00:09.560
go to Spotify and you tap it in, it doesn't
5
00:00:09.599 --> 00:00:11.759
come up. It's like, okay, I'm not going to listen
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to it. Why not make it easy for you? Arrow.net, A-R-R-O-E.net.
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It's 21 different podcasts for you to choose from. Imagine that.
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The power of choice. Are you kidding me? Arrow.net. A-R-R-O-E.net.
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Enjoy your exploration. How are you doing, sir?
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I'm doing good. It's good to be back on the show.
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Absolutely. Of course. The stories you bring are just absolutely fantastic.
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And I just love the way that you continue to
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grow as well. Not only with the podcast, but the book.
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I mean, you really do have a path and you
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keep filling it up. I love that about you, dude.
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well well thank you man where does that energy come
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from because the messages that you're bringing forward really do
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have an effect on those who are receiving it.
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Well i i think uh it it's coming from spirit
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yes um who's guiding me and and i think um
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i was put on this path about 20 years ago
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and I think like many of us, you get a
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calling and you're not sure exactly what to do with
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it or how to tackle it. And so it took
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me a while to figure it out. But once I
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figured out what I was supposed to do, I think
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you have to do what spirit is guiding you to do.
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Yeah, because so many people, they'll pick up on that spirit.
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I know that here in Charlotte, you can see it
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every day in people's eyes. They've got that energy. They're
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being creative. And I'll lean into that conversation and say,
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so are you sharing it? What do you mean, dude?
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Are you teaching people your art?
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No.
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And I'm going, oh, you're so missing out here. Oh,
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my God, John. I mean, that's the thing about it.
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You can have the gift, but if you're not sharing it,
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there's no value in it and inside your soul.
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Right. And I think that's what the vast majority of
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people do is they they keep their superpower hidden and
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they don't impact the world with it, which is exactly
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what I think we're put on here, put on the
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earth to do is to make it a better place
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through our unique talents and abilities.
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The title of the book, did it come to you before, during,
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or after? Because really, when you look at it immediately,
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you're going, hey, this is really speaking to my heart.
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Because that title, I know we're not supposed to judge
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a book by its cover, but that title gets me
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beyond the first page.
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The title actually came pretty early, but then we thought
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about changing the title. And the reason being is we
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originally thought the book would come out late last year
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or January, February this year. And then we found out
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that there were two other books coming out on Mattering.
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And so my publisher decided to hold it. And when
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we were Thinking through that, they almost changed the title
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to Worth, the one word Worth, because that's what the
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book is really about, how we're trading our self-worth to
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the systems and environments around us. But then they took
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it to Ingram and had Ingram look at a number
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of different titles and book covers and Everyone felt that
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the mattering effect really explained the book the best.
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Feeling valued. That seems to be the place where a
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lot of people are hanging their hat right now. They
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don't feel that value. The way I got around it,
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and I could be totally quacked up on this, and
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that is that I feel that it's not about me.
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It's about me recognizing them first because everybody wants to
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be recognized.
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Right. Well, I think we all inherently want to feel
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like people are valuing what we do in the world.
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But I think we're we are living now in a
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time where that pendulum has really swung the other way.
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I think what we're being valued for is what we
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keep producing and.
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Delivering.
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And I think less and less of us are feeling
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that that signal come back to us.
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So now when you talk about the quiet crisis, because
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it seems like when you say that it comes back
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to us like that, all of a sudden people do
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go into that moment of them being quiet. And then
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they either become an actor or they do everything they
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can to push people away. And that to me, you're
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talking to the wrong person, man. I'm still coming into
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that conversation if you push me away.
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Well, man, I kept trying to figure out what is
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happening to so many people. Because when we started this
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out with, what are you doing? Why are you so
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passionate about this? The words I was given were, man,
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you're supposed to help the lonely, the beaten, the broken,
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the burned out, the battered, the disengaged. And when you
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hear all that, you're like, well, that describes a lot
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of people. And we treat all these things as separate things.
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So my big question became, what if we're treating all
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the downstream symptoms of something larger? And so that is
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what I've been trying to explore now for the past
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10 years. And what I think is happening is that
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we're asking the wrong question. We keep asking what is
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happening to us when the right question might be what
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is happening around us. That is forcing this change. So
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even if you're like to your point, you don't want
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to avoid that question that you're asking me. Sometimes we
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don't even realize what the systems and environments around us
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are doing to us and have been doing to us
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for a very long time.
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Please don't move. John R. Miles is coming right back.
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There's a lot more to talk about when it comes
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to the mattering effect. The dude's also got himself a
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podcast called Passion Struck. The book is called The Matter
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in Effect. We are back with John R.
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Miles.
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Your book is such a tool to me. And what
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I mean by that is, is that I work at
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a grocery store only because I just wanted to be
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with people because I know that's where people are. Either
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you're lost, you're found, you're still trying to discover yourself.
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But the thing is, though, is that I use your
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lessons and I'll put it in a language where people
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will just sit there and I call it popping. When
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they realize that what you're sharing in your books is
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And what you're doing on your podcast is something that
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can be used in their own personal life. Dude, that's
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what it's all about. And it's like, oh, now I
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understand why I'm here at a stupid grocery store, because
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I'm using tools that other people have provided. It's like
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going to Home Depot or Lowe's, dude.
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Yeah, well, I mean, first, there's nothing more important than eating, right?
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So I started.
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Way back when in, in grocery, I loved it, man.
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That is where, that is where I really learned what
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it was meant to serve people.
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So true. You're so right about that.
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And it really became the foundation for me because, you know,
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I started out as a bagger, went to cashier, then, then,
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then I, I stocked shelves and, Then I became a
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produce manager and then worked my way up to the
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truck crew leader. But all through it, you're really doing
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it to serve the customer, right?
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So true. So true.
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Oh, yeah.
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Oh, yeah. And, you know, all of a sudden, because
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you come eye to eye with somebody who's searching for
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that meaning. And, you know, what's really interesting is I
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wonder if and I know when you're in public, somebody
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has to do this. They must see it written somewhere
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in your eyes or somewhere in your body language where
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they're attracted to you because it's almost like you've got
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something they need. Yes.
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Well, and in that situation, for sure. But I think
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what they're longing for is something much deeper than that.
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And I think for a lot of people, they're very lonely.
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And so what they don't realize is just how much, um,
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even the checkout, regardless if it's a grocery store or
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a pharmacy or a Home Depot, how important that is
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maybe to someone's day who is feeling pretty low at
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this time.
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So now you do describe inside the book that success
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and mattering are two different things, because I'm very guilty
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of telling people, you matter, you matter. I almost feel
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like that I need to change my language. Is that
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what I'm learning?
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No, I mean, I think what I was saying is
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that to feel like you matter doesn't depend on you
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being successful.
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Okay.
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In fact, I think if that is what we're searching
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for is success, I think it's going to deplete your
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sense of mattering. Because to me, mattering is tied to fulfillment,
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not necessarily success. And I think success is an outcome
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of feeling fulfilled inside. And there are lots of different
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ways that you can judge success. But I think we
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tend to put it on monetary terms or influence terms,
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where when I think of success, I really think of
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it as how... are we shifting the environments that people
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are in for the better? How are we positively changing
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people's lives? That's what I think about when I think
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of success today.
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As you lead us, are we to interrupt other people
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in the way, and I'm going to give you a
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good example of this, is that I am blessed to
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have a lot of caretakers that'll come through my line.
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And I know that they're injured. I know that they've
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given everything and they have that hollow feeling that you're
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talking about. Can I interrupt them as a leader that
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has been taught through your writing?
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Well, I think what I'm trying to do is help
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people figure out how do they restore their meaning and
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agency and the feeling of value in their own lives.
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And I think once you produce that mattering dividend in yourself,
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that's what allows you to show up differently. Whether it's
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someone in your line or in your church or in
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your Toastmasters group or in your kid's school, I think
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it changes how we show up in the rooms around us. Yeah.
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Where can people go to find out more about you, John?
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Because I love what you're doing, and I especially want
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people to go and listen to your voice on the podcast.
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I want them to hear your compassion, your empathy, and
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your drive to really help us understand this.
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Yeah, the best place they can do that is just
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to go to either passionstruck, S-T-R-U-C-K dot com, or my
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personal website, johnrmiles.com.
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And I love that. I love that you make it
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so simple for the passerby, because I always think of
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that person in the car, or the person that's at work,
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and they're afraid they're going to get caught by the
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boss because they've got the earbuds in. And even with
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your book, if I could just sit back for a
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couple of seconds, 30 or 40 seconds, to pick up
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your book, get a line, all of a sudden, now
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it's like I've been rejuvenated. And it starts with your writing.
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Well, I feel, especially in this book, I was trying
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to write it in a way that the reader really
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feels like they're sitting in the passenger seat sitting next
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to me. And I'm kind of telling them, I'm leading
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with my story because I think the concepts in the
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book to get people to want to put them into practice,
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I think they need to see it. come to fruition
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in someone else's life. So I really had to be
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vulnerable in this book about sharing a lot more of
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me than I initially thought I was going to. But
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I think by being vulnerable about what I was experiencing,
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it helps people see it in their own lives.
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All right. Now, where did you go to replenish? Because many, many,
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many times on iHeartRadio, I talk about the taker, taker,
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takers that we have in this world. And I don't
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want to feel like a taker by taking the information
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from this book. So how did you replenish yourself in
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order to get strong again? Because you did give yourself
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a lot inside these pages.
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Well, I think the first thing is, I think the
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first thing you got to do is, is like to
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forgive yourself. I, you know, I was holding on to
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a whole bunch of trauma that for me was combat induced. And,
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you know, I couldn't let that go for many years.
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So I think the first thing was figuring out, you know,
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how do I get myself beyond those stuck points that
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were holding me back? And then I think from there,
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it really kind of just trickles almost like water into
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other areas of your life. Once, once you start letting
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things go and you stop arsening the other areas of
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your life. Um, and I, I think that's the hardest
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thing to start on though, because it's, it's what keeps
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us stuck the most. Yeah.
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You got to come back to this show anytime in
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the future. You know, that door is always going to
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be open for you, sir.
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Oh man, I appreciate it. I love being on here
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the first time. And I, I appreciate that, uh, that
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the book has been meaningful to you.
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Oh my God. Yes. Oh, it absolutely has been. You
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be brilliant today. Okay.
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I will. Thank you and have a great weekend.
