Why Stability Matters for Early Childhood Development

WEBVTT
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Welcome to The Brain Architects. I'm your host,
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Amelia Johnson, communications lead at the Center
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on the Developing Child at Harvard University.
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Today we're sharing the conversation from our
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recent webinar, Why Stability Matters for Early
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Childhood Development. In this discussion, our
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chief science officer, Dr. Lindsay Burkhart,
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talks with two members of the Early Childhood
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Scientific Council on equity and the environment,
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Dr. Nathaniel Hornet and Dr. Natalie Slipman.
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Together, they examine how stability or the lack
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of it across children's developmental environments
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can affect their well -being in the moment and
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across the lifespan, and they highlight strategies
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to promote stability for young children and their
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caregivers. We hope you enjoy this conversation,
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and remember to subscribe to our podcast on Apple
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Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you listen. Welcome
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to all of you who are here in the audience. I'm
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Rebecca Hansen, the Senior Director for Communications
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here at the Harvard Center on the Developing
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Child. We are so glad to have you with us for
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today's webinar, and we have a great conversation
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planned that will explore insights from our latest
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working paper, From Resources to Routines, the
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Importance of Stability in the Developmental
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Environment. The paper from our Early Childhood
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Scientific Council on Equity and the Environment
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brings together a wide array of science that
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underscores why stability matters so much for
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the health and development of our children, both
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in the moment and across the lifespan, as well
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as strategies that can help promote stability
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for young children and their caregivers. Our
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moderator for today's conversation is Dr. Lindsay
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Burkhart, Chief Science Officer at the Center
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on the Developing Child and a practicing pediatrician
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in the Boston area. She's joined today by two
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members of our council who authored the new paper.
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Dr. Nate Harnett is an Assistant Professor of
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Psychiatry at Harvard Medical School and Director
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of the Neurobiology of Affective and Traumatic
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Experiences Laboratory at McLean Hospital. And
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Dr. Natalie Slopen is an Associate Professor
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in the Department of Social and Behavioral Sciences
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at the Harvard T .H. Chan School of Public Health.
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So again, we're very excited to have you all
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with us today. And with that, Lindsay, I will
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turn it over to you to begin our discussion.
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Thanks, Rebecca. Thanks to all of you for making
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time to be here today. I think this is a topic
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that's feeling very timely and top of mind for
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many of us. So I'm just going to start us off
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with some opening thoughts and comments, and
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we'll quickly get into our conversation. So as
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Rebecca mentioned, we're going to focus today
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on stability, how stability shapes kids' developmental
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environments and why it's really critical for
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their healthy development. So all of this begins
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well before birth. And in that time, children's
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health, their development, it's shaped by all
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of these influences that are really deeply interconnected.
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That's going to be a theme today throughout their
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developmental environments. So we're talking
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about all of the experiences that they have,
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all of the environmental exposures that they
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experience, where they're living, where they're
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playing, where they're learning and growing.
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And so stability may mean different things to
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different people. So when we talk about stability
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today, what we're really getting into is the
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consistency and reliability of factors, relationships,
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resources, routines, all these things in kids'
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developmental environments over time. And when
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kids experience predictable, supportive relationships,
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when they have really consistent resources and
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conditions in their daily lives, these experiences
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just build a really strong foundation for their
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healthy development. And it's important to note,
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stability doesn't mean that things are totally
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static and that they don't change. It just means
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that the changes are manageable. and they're
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buffered, typically by these supportive relationships.
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Now, it's really important to note that when
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these key parts of developmental environments
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are unstable, we're going to think about things
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today like housing, economic security, and even
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the relationships they have with the adults in
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their lives, it can make really important disruptions
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to their health and development. So the working
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paper Rebecca mentioned from the Early Childhood
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Scientific Council on Equity and the Environment,
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which myself and our two guests today are members
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of, it really brings together research from a
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number of different fields to help us understand
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stability and how it functions across these environments.
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And really importantly, like what we can do to
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promote it, which is I think why many of us are
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here today. So I'm really excited to talk to
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two of my favorite scientists today, two members
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of the council that Rebecca mentioned, Natalie
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and Nate, whose work really helps to deepen our
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understanding of how both social conditions and
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experiences help to shape health and development
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for young children. So thank you both for being
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here today. I'm very grateful, very happy to
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see your faces as always. So I want to start
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with Nate. Nate, do you mind briefly introducing
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yourself and sharing more about your background,
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your research into stability? Yeah, sure. Happy
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to do it. And thanks again for having me, Lindsay.
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So as you've already said, my name is Nate. My
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research really tries to look at how stress and
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trauma shape the brain and how that's related
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to the development of mental health disorders
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and other disorders of that nature. We're really
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interested in neurodevelopment and how the presence
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of different resources in our social environments
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might impact that neurodevelopment and play a
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future role in mental health disorders. So for
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example, our research has looked at how relative
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resource availability, mostly economic resources,
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or how the environments that have been built
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around us have shaped neurodevelopment at different
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stages of a child's development to try to understand
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what is the downstream impact on brain development.
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And you can imagine then how the stability or
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sort of temporality of how much disadvantage
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or how many resources are actually available
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to you might impact that development over time.
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So from a neuroscience perspective, early childhood
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is this period where brains are developing really
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rapid, though, right? A lot is changing, even
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minute by minute. So what happens biologically
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with kids experience instability or unpredictability
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in their environments? Like, what's happening
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in their brains? Yeah, I think that I'm going
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to go a little bit off script for this one, I
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think. But, you know. As you're saying, the brain
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is really developing very rapidly throughout
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early development. And one of the ways we might
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think about this from the neuroscientific standpoint
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is this development along both sensory cortices,
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so brain regions that are taking in information
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about the environments we're in, and these association
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core disease, brain regions like the prefrontal
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cortex that are important for understanding how
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that information fits with how we're supposed
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to be behaving. And so these early periods where
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these types of brain regions are developing are
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really important for understanding how we understand
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the world that we live in. And so when our environments
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are unpredictable, it becomes a lot harder to
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understand how things that happen to us might
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be things that we can prepare for later on in
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life. So for example, if, you know, You are living
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in an environment where you're not really sure
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where your next meal is going to come from. You're
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not really sure what types of experiences you're
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going to have on day to day. It's really hard
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to develop an understanding of what are the behaviors
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you're going to need in order to protect yourself
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from those different things. And so when we're
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thinking about this from a neuroscientific standpoint,
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that aspect of stability really helps to strengthen
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those connections that you can have these adaptive,
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reliable responses to potential threats in your
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environment. So when you say courtesy is that
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if you say that that's synonymous with region
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of the brain for people who are listening in
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it Maybe it took neurobiology a long time ago.
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That's a really good point. Yes, I would say
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that Okay. Yeah, so is do those courtesies or
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those regions is early childhood or meaning the
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prenatal period in the first few years of life
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an important time for developing those connections
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and for Kind of encountering stability. Is there
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something special about timing here? There's
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something special about timing. Again, these
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regions are developing rapidly, but they develop
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in a staggered fashion. So those very early regions,
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those sensory regions are really undergoing rapid
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development within those first few years of life.
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And that transitions to more rapid development
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of these association prefrontal top -down print
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regions as individuals go on through the developmental
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stage. And so those first few years of development
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are really critical for setting the stage as
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to how those brain regions are going to become
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connected and how they're going to be able to
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support forming these associations between events
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in their environment and how you enact behaviors
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to protect yourself against them. So it sort
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of ties back to that metaphor of brain architecture,
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right? This is another example where if you lay
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down a strong foundation really early and you
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develop these connections and it really, I guess,
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like optimal way, it makes it more likely that
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you're going to have the types of associations
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that you want to have later on rather than these
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kind of I guess maladaptive or less optimal responses.
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Is that fair to say? Natalie, would you mind
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introducing yourself and just telling us a little
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bit about how your work relates to stability?
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Sure, thank you. Thank you for having me. As
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mentioned, I'm an associate professor in the
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Department of Social and Behavioral Sciences.
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I'm trained as a social epidemiologist and I
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focus on child development. My research has a
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focus on social conditions that all relate to
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stability. So I'm interested in caregiving relationships,
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housing security, financial predictability, or
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let's say stable access to food, and how these
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shape health and development across the life
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course. So all of these important factors that
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affect child development can be stable or unstable.
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the predictability of these experiences all have
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consequences for health. Another way that my
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work intersects is that I have a... Threat of
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my research focused on cumulative adversity.
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So thinking about the way that multiple social
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risk factors can pile up and accumulate in the
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earliest years. And there's a large body of research
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that shows as number of adversities increases,
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so to do our health risks that are associated.
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And as we talk about in the working paper, we
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know that different forms of instability are
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highly connected to one another. So this really
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connects in with my interest in cumulative. burden
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of adversity and lifelong outcomes. That's really
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interesting and I think when we as a group we're
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sitting around the table and trying to learn
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about this topic that word came up a lot like
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how interconnected a lot of these factors are.
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You mentioned you're like looking at all these
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different you know, contextual influences that
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can affect health and well -being, but it was
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really amazing to me when we were listening to
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people who were providing direct services or
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working on the front line, how easy it was for
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a change in one area to affect changes in another.
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So, you mentioned looking at how these... social
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condition shape health across the life course.
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And thinking about this stability within the
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context of a web or being interconnected, why
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do you think that's so important, particularly
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for young children? Thanks. That's a great question.
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And I remember As we were working on this working
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paper, we encountered these documents from the
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Urban Institute that laid out this idea of a
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web of instability. And it really resonated with
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us because we can think about all of the important
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factors that shape child development as being
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in a delicate balance with one another and highly
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interconnected and all very important. They lay
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out that this web could be made up of characteristics
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such as income, reliable housing, food security,
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safe and supportive relationships, for example.
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part of life has a change. Let's say a parent
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were to lose their steady form of employment.
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This instability in one domain is going to have
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a cascading effect across other sources of stability
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that we really depend on. So let's say we're
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talking about unemployment that will have consequences
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potentially for housing, for food security, for
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the relationship dynamics between the adults
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in the household. So there really can be a domino
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effect that can create instability across so
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many of the aspects of life that matter for children's
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routine and sense of stability and safety. And
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I think something important to think about in
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that context is not only from a deficit perspective
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where instability in one area leads to instability
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in another, we can also think about the way that
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strengthening stability in one area could have
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positive benefits for others. So for example,
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you know, improvements in housing stability could
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have consequences for school stability so kids
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can stay at the same school for a longer period
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of time, which could allow them to build stronger
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bonds with the teachers that work in those schools
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and on and on. So all of this is really important
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based on all of the biology that Dr. Harnett
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just laid out around, you know, the importance
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of children being able to encounter a world that
00:13:23.389 --> 00:13:26.580
feels predictable and safe to them. Oh, that's
00:13:26.580 --> 00:13:28.940
really well said. And I agree. I think that work
00:13:28.940 --> 00:13:31.220
from the Urban Institute was really informative
00:13:31.220 --> 00:13:34.159
in directing us and really helping us understand.
00:13:34.200 --> 00:13:36.519
So we can try to share the link to that report
00:13:36.519 --> 00:13:38.379
in the chat for people who are interested as
00:13:38.379 --> 00:13:43.179
well. Yeah, and it's a really good point to think
00:13:43.179 --> 00:13:46.879
about the strengthening side of the deficit model
00:13:46.879 --> 00:13:49.220
as well. It makes me think a little bit about
00:13:49.220 --> 00:13:51.639
the cumulative effects research that you mentioned.
00:13:51.919 --> 00:13:55.210
But do you find that it's sort of hard to measure
00:13:55.210 --> 00:13:57.690
as a researcher to really understand and draw
00:13:57.690 --> 00:14:00.570
attention to kind of like the strength base part
00:14:00.570 --> 00:14:02.250
of that. Because I think that when we're making,
00:14:02.250 --> 00:14:04.049
you know, all the people who are listening who
00:14:04.049 --> 00:14:06.970
are trying to make the case to policymakers or,
00:14:06.970 --> 00:14:08.850
you know, different services about why this is
00:14:08.850 --> 00:14:11.090
so important. Some of these things are kind of
00:14:11.090 --> 00:14:13.230
invisible, right? It's hard to show how like
00:14:13.230 --> 00:14:14.830
having the same teacher and being able to show
00:14:14.830 --> 00:14:17.090
up in the same school and have access to school
00:14:17.090 --> 00:14:19.490
meals also strengthens your ability to do these
00:14:19.490 --> 00:14:22.159
things across other domains. So I guess When
00:14:22.159 --> 00:14:25.419
we're making the case about why this is so important,
00:14:25.960 --> 00:14:28.240
do you have any advice in that realm or ways
00:14:28.240 --> 00:14:29.940
to make those connections if you're somebody
00:14:29.940 --> 00:14:32.700
out there talking about these things? Yeah, thank
00:14:32.700 --> 00:14:34.740
you, Lindsay. That's a great point, and I would
00:14:34.740 --> 00:14:37.679
completely agree that we may not be measuring
00:14:37.679 --> 00:14:40.419
all of the dimensions that could help us to understand
00:14:40.419 --> 00:14:43.820
what makes a difference for children's lives
00:14:43.820 --> 00:14:47.379
and how to... lead to better outcomes. I could
00:14:47.379 --> 00:14:50.580
imagine that more dialogue between researchers
00:14:50.580 --> 00:14:52.620
and people on the ground working with families
00:14:52.620 --> 00:14:56.179
who are getting connected to services that stabilize
00:14:56.179 --> 00:15:00.419
lives and create stronger forms of stability
00:15:00.419 --> 00:15:03.039
would be the way for researchers to know what
00:15:03.039 --> 00:15:05.279
should we be measuring that we aren't thinking
00:15:05.279 --> 00:15:09.639
about just yet and being very intentional in
00:15:09.710 --> 00:15:12.169
Deciding to study that and documenting it so
00:15:12.169 --> 00:15:14.309
that we can I think that part of it is a bit
00:15:14.309 --> 00:15:17.230
of a paradigm shift That we as researchers need
00:15:17.230 --> 00:15:19.649
to do as well to really try to tune in and make
00:15:19.649 --> 00:15:22.090
sure that our research is is addressing that
00:15:22.090 --> 00:15:24.970
question I think it's really well said I'd love
00:15:24.970 --> 00:15:27.590
to shift a little bit into talking about housing
00:15:27.590 --> 00:15:30.029
because I think it's a really great way to illustrate
00:15:30.029 --> 00:15:32.740
structural stability and there's so many families
00:15:32.740 --> 00:15:35.720
that are facing instability that comes from these
00:15:35.720 --> 00:15:39.399
bigger, what feel like huge societal policy decisions,
00:15:39.480 --> 00:15:42.460
things like housing availability, these like
00:15:42.460 --> 00:15:44.779
wide range of economic conditions, things like
00:15:44.779 --> 00:15:46.799
immigration policy, which I think are top of
00:15:46.799 --> 00:15:49.899
mind for many of us, and climate related disruptions,
00:15:49.899 --> 00:15:51.799
the way that these extreme weather events are
00:15:51.799 --> 00:15:54.539
kind of cascading down into housing. Housing
00:15:54.539 --> 00:15:57.080
just feels like one of these most fundamental
00:15:57.080 --> 00:16:00.500
sources of stability for families. And at the
00:16:00.500 --> 00:16:02.580
same time, it's sort of wanted these areas because
00:16:02.580 --> 00:16:04.259
of all those factors that we're talking about
00:16:04.259 --> 00:16:07.960
that feels increasingly unstable and even unpredictable.
00:16:08.879 --> 00:16:10.500
So, Natalie, I think for you first, because a
00:16:10.500 --> 00:16:13.539
lot of your work focuses on housing as this really
00:16:13.539 --> 00:16:16.179
powerful influence on health and wellbeing. Can
00:16:16.179 --> 00:16:17.820
you talk about what your research is showing
00:16:17.820 --> 00:16:21.139
about this relationship between housing conditions,
00:16:21.620 --> 00:16:23.879
maybe experiencing homelessness and children's
00:16:23.879 --> 00:16:26.799
health and development? Sure. So there's a huge
00:16:26.799 --> 00:16:30.019
body of research out there on the many different
00:16:30.019 --> 00:16:32.679
dimensions of housing and how it connects to
00:16:32.679 --> 00:16:37.100
child. So we can be thinking about lack of housing,
00:16:37.279 --> 00:16:38.960
as you mentioned, homelessness, which is obviously
00:16:38.960 --> 00:16:42.820
a huge issue for our very youngest members of
00:16:42.820 --> 00:16:45.840
society. And we can also be thinking about quality.
00:16:45.980 --> 00:16:48.159
We can be thinking about frequent residential
00:16:48.159 --> 00:16:50.320
relocation. We can be thinking about housing
00:16:50.320 --> 00:16:53.009
affordability. in the crisis we're in in this
00:16:53.009 --> 00:16:55.070
country, which puts families in really difficult
00:16:55.070 --> 00:16:58.250
places in terms of making hard choices between
00:16:58.250 --> 00:17:01.309
keeping up with rent and other very important
00:17:01.309 --> 00:17:04.109
demands, as well as the neighborhood conditions.
00:17:04.130 --> 00:17:07.690
So where children are actually living based on
00:17:07.690 --> 00:17:10.549
what they can afford. And all of these characteristics
00:17:10.549 --> 00:17:13.859
matter, and it's really a challenging. area of
00:17:13.859 --> 00:17:15.700
research because they're so tightly connected,
00:17:16.240 --> 00:17:19.380
but yet influence health in very different ways.
00:17:20.039 --> 00:17:22.539
But what I can say, thinking about the body of
00:17:22.539 --> 00:17:27.039
literature, broadly we know that housing is a
00:17:27.039 --> 00:17:31.279
fundamental part of families' lives, and it's
00:17:31.279 --> 00:17:34.440
really a foundation for stability across so many
00:17:34.440 --> 00:17:39.109
different aspects. We know that there are social
00:17:39.109 --> 00:17:42.849
policies that can be in place to promote stability
00:17:42.849 --> 00:17:45.769
related to housing. For example, federal rental
00:17:45.769 --> 00:17:49.990
assistance programs have been studied and shown
00:17:49.990 --> 00:17:55.380
that they can create more... context that allow
00:17:55.380 --> 00:17:58.539
children to do better when it comes to, let's
00:17:58.539 --> 00:18:03.039
say, missed school days or preventing certain
00:18:03.039 --> 00:18:07.160
forms of health problems. We also know that these
00:18:07.160 --> 00:18:09.539
programs can have the potential to reduce residential
00:18:09.539 --> 00:18:15.019
mobility, and that very frequent residential
00:18:15.019 --> 00:18:20.279
mobility is not putting children on the ideal
00:18:20.279 --> 00:18:25.279
trajectories for development over time. And so
00:18:25.279 --> 00:18:28.220
there's many different ways we can begin to attack
00:18:28.220 --> 00:18:31.900
this problem. But we do know that our policies
00:18:31.900 --> 00:18:33.819
can work. We can even look at some of the short
00:18:33.819 --> 00:18:37.000
-term policies that went into action during the
00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:40.259
COVID pandemic that put a moratorium on evictions,
00:18:40.319 --> 00:18:43.019
for example. And these have been shown in rigorous
00:18:43.019 --> 00:18:45.460
research to have had a meaningful benefit for
00:18:45.460 --> 00:18:47.700
families. Can you just talk a little bit more
00:18:47.700 --> 00:18:50.119
about the mobility piece? Like, what do we know
00:18:50.119 --> 00:18:52.940
about residential mobility and specifically how
00:18:52.940 --> 00:18:55.140
it affects early childhood? Because I think we
00:18:55.140 --> 00:18:56.839
got into this a little bit in the paper, but
00:18:56.839 --> 00:18:59.240
it was really actually surprising to me and feels
00:18:59.240 --> 00:19:01.700
like maybe an area of particular opportunity.
00:19:02.480 --> 00:19:04.660
Yeah. Well, that's a great question because it's
00:19:04.660 --> 00:19:10.039
complex. We know that You know people move for
00:19:10.039 --> 00:19:12.859
different reasons so Sometimes people are moving
00:19:12.859 --> 00:19:16.400
because opportunities come up and they can you
00:19:16.400 --> 00:19:18.200
know improve the context in which they're living
00:19:18.200 --> 00:19:21.039
But a lot of times people are experiencing very
00:19:21.039 --> 00:19:25.500
frequent Moves due to economic strain and they
00:19:25.500 --> 00:19:30.289
have to move because they either cannot continue
00:19:30.289 --> 00:19:31.650
to afford to live where they're living, they
00:19:31.650 --> 00:19:34.049
were evicted, or they may need to double up and
00:19:34.049 --> 00:19:37.670
live with family members, for example. We know
00:19:37.670 --> 00:19:45.069
that this frequent relocation is disruptive to
00:19:45.069 --> 00:19:48.009
all kinds of other aspects of stability in a
00:19:48.009 --> 00:19:52.880
child's life. You know may change the other adults
00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:55.019
in their lives that are close to them at what
00:19:55.019 --> 00:19:57.279
may change the schools that they attend their
00:19:57.279 --> 00:19:59.720
routines around food and bedtime and who they
00:19:59.720 --> 00:20:03.480
they share a room with so There's a very large
00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:07.599
body of research on frequent residential relocation
00:20:07.599 --> 00:20:12.680
in childhood and It's not all perfectly clean
00:20:12.680 --> 00:20:14.980
and clear telling a story that it's necessarily
00:20:14.980 --> 00:20:18.500
you know if you move X number of times in a given
00:20:18.500 --> 00:20:22.740
year that it's harmful, but we know that moving
00:20:22.740 --> 00:20:25.660
creates massive and challenge, you know massive
00:20:25.660 --> 00:20:27.680
change and challenges for children and families
00:20:27.680 --> 00:20:30.390
and creates tremendous stress and that policies
00:20:30.390 --> 00:20:33.069
that can help children stay in the same home
00:20:33.069 --> 00:20:36.809
can be very supportive of development. Maybe
00:20:36.809 --> 00:20:39.029
I'll just end it by saying we know that there
00:20:39.029 --> 00:20:41.150
could be different periods of life when it's
00:20:41.150 --> 00:20:43.049
more and less disruptive, so there's a lot of
00:20:43.049 --> 00:20:47.970
research on that. correlates of, let's say, frequent
00:20:47.970 --> 00:20:50.369
moves for very young children, like moving more
00:20:50.369 --> 00:20:51.869
than three times a year for very young children.
00:20:52.230 --> 00:20:53.970
But it's also important to recognize that moving
00:20:53.970 --> 00:20:57.069
can be very, very stressful for adolescents as
00:20:57.069 --> 00:20:59.509
well. That's also thought to be a sensitive period
00:20:59.509 --> 00:21:03.410
where moves may present some major challenges
00:21:03.410 --> 00:21:06.029
during that period of the life course as well.
00:21:06.710 --> 00:21:10.519
So, yeah. And I think that mobility piece also
00:21:10.519 --> 00:21:13.539
makes me think about all the nuance behind how
00:21:13.539 --> 00:21:16.019
children who are experiencing homelessness or
00:21:16.019 --> 00:21:19.460
who are unhoused are eligible or not eligible
00:21:19.460 --> 00:21:22.299
for certain services. So if you're doubling up
00:21:22.299 --> 00:21:25.079
or even tripling up with someone, then you may
00:21:25.079 --> 00:21:29.559
not necessarily be considered to be experiencing
00:21:29.559 --> 00:21:32.980
homelessness or potentially even lose access
00:21:32.980 --> 00:21:35.339
to other services that would have provided stability
00:21:35.339 --> 00:21:39.099
in other realms. Yes, and I think that the working
00:21:39.099 --> 00:21:40.880
paper, I hope I'm remembering correctly, may
00:21:40.880 --> 00:21:42.980
talk about certain policies that may be in place
00:21:42.980 --> 00:21:48.180
to protect against losing benefits. based on
00:21:48.180 --> 00:21:50.660
that type of move. So, for example, like Head
00:21:50.660 --> 00:21:52.380
Start, for example. And I think when we're out
00:21:52.380 --> 00:21:54.720
talking about this too, one thing that, you know,
00:21:54.759 --> 00:21:57.099
I think about as being able to just kind of paint
00:21:57.099 --> 00:21:59.660
like a picture of what this looks like for very
00:21:59.660 --> 00:22:02.180
young children. And I think like of infants,
00:22:02.380 --> 00:22:04.920
right, who if you're moving from place to place,
00:22:05.059 --> 00:22:07.480
one of the things that's most likely disrupted
00:22:07.480 --> 00:22:10.619
is sleep. Not only that you mentioned routines,
00:22:10.700 --> 00:22:13.720
but it's not only when you go to bed, but where.
00:22:13.920 --> 00:22:16.160
And if you're moving from place to place, what
00:22:16.160 --> 00:22:18.420
does that say about your opportunity to have
00:22:18.420 --> 00:22:22.940
a firm, flat surface with no soft things around
00:22:22.940 --> 00:22:24.859
you that we, you know, like what we know to be
00:22:24.859 --> 00:22:28.039
really likely an optimal surface for children
00:22:28.039 --> 00:22:31.000
to protect their safety during sleep? And how
00:22:31.000 --> 00:22:33.839
do we think about, you know, describing that
00:22:33.839 --> 00:22:35.900
to people who are in an ability to make change
00:22:35.900 --> 00:22:38.039
so that we can lean in and make these conditions
00:22:38.039 --> 00:22:40.730
available because... the foundations for something
00:22:40.730 --> 00:22:43.970
like infant sleep have ramifications for better
00:22:43.970 --> 00:22:46.089
and worse across the lifespan and chronically
00:22:46.089 --> 00:22:49.589
disrupted sleep and infancy we know is not helpful
00:22:49.589 --> 00:22:52.369
for your neurodevelopment, for your cardiovascular
00:22:52.369 --> 00:22:55.690
health, for everything. So just creating these
00:22:55.690 --> 00:22:58.430
little pockets of stability, I think, really
00:22:58.430 --> 00:23:00.930
have a potential for an outsized positive effect.
00:23:00.990 --> 00:23:04.769
So I really appreciate you naming all these different
00:23:04.769 --> 00:23:06.589
ways that, again, that they're interconnected.
00:23:07.220 --> 00:23:09.859
So, Nate, turning to you, when this instability
00:23:09.859 --> 00:23:13.839
is severe, especially when it's abrupt and when
00:23:13.839 --> 00:23:16.599
it's prolonged, that's when we really start to
00:23:16.599 --> 00:23:18.460
see it contribute to what we consider a more
00:23:18.460 --> 00:23:21.460
traumatic stress response. So, can you talk a
00:23:21.460 --> 00:23:23.809
little bit about... How that stress response
00:23:23.809 --> 00:23:26.750
shows up in children. What does your research
00:23:26.750 --> 00:23:29.450
and other, you know, accompanying science tell
00:23:29.450 --> 00:23:32.069
us about how experiencing instability affects
00:23:32.069 --> 00:23:35.069
the risk for things like anxiety, depression,
00:23:35.410 --> 00:23:38.829
PTSD, either in childhood or later in life? Yeah,
00:23:39.109 --> 00:23:41.630
I think that it's important to think about this
00:23:41.630 --> 00:23:44.150
biologically in the same way that we think about
00:23:44.150 --> 00:23:46.990
it for ourselves, right? When we encounter something
00:23:46.990 --> 00:23:49.920
stressful, encounter something unexpected, Our
00:23:49.920 --> 00:23:52.579
bodies activate this very ingrained stress response
00:23:52.579 --> 00:23:55.920
that's designed to protect us from whatever it
00:23:55.920 --> 00:23:58.039
is we're encountering. People have talked about
00:23:58.039 --> 00:24:01.299
the hypothalamic pituitary adrenal axis, if that's
00:24:01.299 --> 00:24:04.400
how you're supposed to say it, or HPA axis. And
00:24:04.400 --> 00:24:06.660
it's a way that our body goes about trying to
00:24:06.660 --> 00:24:08.839
get cortisol into our bloodstream, this sort
00:24:08.839 --> 00:24:11.630
of stress hormone that's meant to... get us ready
00:24:11.630 --> 00:24:13.730
to fight or flight or do whatever we need to
00:24:13.730 --> 00:24:16.309
do. It shuts down metabolism. It gets our heart
00:24:16.309 --> 00:24:18.369
rate going. It has all these things that we can
00:24:18.369 --> 00:24:20.849
respond in the moment. As you're saying, Lindsey,
00:24:21.269 --> 00:24:23.950
when these sort of stressors are chronic, when
00:24:23.950 --> 00:24:27.420
they are activated routinely, causes that stress
00:24:27.420 --> 00:24:29.480
system to be activated a lot more frequently
00:24:29.480 --> 00:24:31.960
than it needs to be. Our bodies are trying to
00:24:31.960 --> 00:24:34.500
constantly seek out homeostasis, the sort of
00:24:34.500 --> 00:24:36.859
ideal rhythm among our biological processes,
00:24:37.299 --> 00:24:39.619
that stress response disrupts it, leads to that
00:24:39.619 --> 00:24:42.240
axis activation more cortisol, and that frequent
00:24:42.240 --> 00:24:44.960
activation then leads to a number of downstream
00:24:44.960 --> 00:24:47.640
issues like chronic inflammation, or issues with
00:24:47.640 --> 00:24:51.480
metabolism, or other sort of behavioral or emotional
00:24:51.480 --> 00:24:53.839
aspects of instability. You can imagine that
00:24:53.839 --> 00:24:56.259
if you're consistently stressed out, You have
00:24:56.259 --> 00:24:58.799
a little bit of emotional irritability, a little
00:24:58.799 --> 00:25:00.920
bit of emotional dysfunction, and we see those
00:25:00.920 --> 00:25:04.619
same things in children, earlier infants, and
00:25:04.619 --> 00:25:07.259
so on. And so when you have this sort of chronic
00:25:07.259 --> 00:25:08.920
instability, these sort of, as you're saying,
00:25:09.380 --> 00:25:11.500
severe or prolonged aspects of stress, you're
00:25:11.500 --> 00:25:14.019
activating that same system. Coincidentally,
00:25:14.279 --> 00:25:17.079
that can also lead to other sort of neurobehavioral
00:25:17.079 --> 00:25:20.279
adaptations like hypervigilance. You want to
00:25:20.279 --> 00:25:22.279
find things that are going to keep you safe.
00:25:22.420 --> 00:25:23.759
You want to understand where you're going to
00:25:23.759 --> 00:25:26.140
be safe or have some sort of stable stability
00:25:26.140 --> 00:25:28.799
in your environment. And so you look for cues
00:25:28.799 --> 00:25:31.259
or things that help tell you whether or not something
00:25:31.259 --> 00:25:33.900
bad is going to happen. And if something is unpredictable,
00:25:34.359 --> 00:25:36.579
you're constantly looking for cues that don't
00:25:36.579 --> 00:25:39.099
really tell you anything. You can imagine how
00:25:39.099 --> 00:25:42.279
that can contribute to aspects of anxiety. You're
00:25:42.279 --> 00:25:44.180
constantly amped up looking for something to
00:25:44.180 --> 00:25:46.220
tell you when that bad thing is going to happen,
00:25:46.359 --> 00:25:47.960
because you have a feeling it's going to happen
00:25:47.960 --> 00:25:50.960
at some point. It's been predictable in the sense
00:25:50.960 --> 00:25:53.519
that it's going to happen, and you just don't
00:25:53.519 --> 00:25:56.740
know. And that sort of process is what we think
00:25:56.740 --> 00:25:58.759
about when we think about things like anxiety.
00:25:59.200 --> 00:26:02.019
And again, all these things as Dr. Slobans already
00:26:02.019 --> 00:26:04.519
mentioned, are all very much interconnected,
00:26:04.759 --> 00:26:06.640
all these biological systems, all these behavioral
00:26:06.640 --> 00:26:09.700
systems, and all the aspects of instability of
00:26:09.700 --> 00:26:11.880
whether or not we have housing or food, or as
00:26:11.880 --> 00:26:13.180
I think we'll talk a little bit more in a little
00:26:13.180 --> 00:26:16.819
bit, adequate sleep to actually reset these biological
00:26:16.819 --> 00:26:20.240
systems. Can you just rewind a little bit because
00:26:20.240 --> 00:26:22.789
there's so much there and I feel like I... I
00:26:22.789 --> 00:26:25.470
was taking it all in, but the vigilance and hyper
00:26:25.470 --> 00:26:27.630
vigilance, I just want to draw that out a little
00:26:27.630 --> 00:26:29.970
bit for Lisa. Can you can you come back to that?
00:26:29.990 --> 00:26:32.490
Because I think it it's feeling very timely for
00:26:32.490 --> 00:26:34.890
a lot of the issues that we're many of us are
00:26:34.890 --> 00:26:37.130
thinking about. Can you break that down a little
00:26:37.130 --> 00:26:39.500
bit and help us understand both? in the brain
00:26:39.500 --> 00:26:41.259
and then what it looks like behaviorally like
00:26:41.259 --> 00:26:43.599
if you could paint the picture of like if you're
00:26:43.599 --> 00:26:47.119
an infant or a young child or an adolescent and
00:26:47.119 --> 00:26:49.799
you've experienced hypervigilance because of
00:26:49.799 --> 00:26:51.640
instability like what does that look like in
00:26:51.640 --> 00:26:55.519
terms of how you might act yeah so when we're
00:26:55.519 --> 00:26:58.079
when we talk about hypervigilance in this sort
00:26:58.079 --> 00:27:01.599
of neuropsychiatric space what we're really talking
00:27:01.599 --> 00:27:05.289
about is this primed neural system that's constantly
00:27:05.289 --> 00:27:08.130
scanning the environment, looking for potential
00:27:08.130 --> 00:27:10.609
threats. We think about this in aspects of PTSD
00:27:10.609 --> 00:27:13.549
all the time. You're looking for cues in the
00:27:13.549 --> 00:27:16.390
environment that tell you that something dangerous
00:27:16.390 --> 00:27:18.769
or bad is about to happen. And when we're talking
00:27:18.769 --> 00:27:22.000
about hypervigilance, it's the sort of Enhanced
00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:24.119
sensory system, trying to take in all of this
00:27:24.119 --> 00:27:25.940
information, really doing this sort of sensory
00:27:25.940 --> 00:27:28.519
overload as you try to understand everything
00:27:28.519 --> 00:27:31.079
in your environment all at once. And so you can
00:27:31.079 --> 00:27:34.279
imagine for ourselves, for adolescents, for young
00:27:34.279 --> 00:27:37.519
children, this really looks like sort of emotional
00:27:37.519 --> 00:27:41.529
dysregulation and this sort of similar anxious
00:27:41.529 --> 00:27:44.329
phenotypes where individuals are just sort of
00:27:44.329 --> 00:27:47.029
constantly looking for that potential bad thing
00:27:47.029 --> 00:27:49.650
and Reacting as quickly as possible because they
00:27:49.650 --> 00:27:51.549
need to know where that bad thing is so they
00:27:51.549 --> 00:27:55.109
can protect themselves Okay, so phenotype meaning
00:27:55.109 --> 00:27:58.309
how I show up or how I act dr. Burkhart You're
00:27:58.309 --> 00:28:01.289
very good at translating all the jargon that
00:28:01.289 --> 00:28:04.130
I keep throwing in inadvertently. Yes, so phenotype
00:28:04.130 --> 00:28:07.569
being this sort of behavioral or cognitive or
00:28:07.569 --> 00:28:10.920
just sort of how you show up Okay, so if I was
00:28:10.920 --> 00:28:13.460
a, like an example, I'm trying to think of an
00:28:13.460 --> 00:28:15.980
example, a young child, like a toddler, three,
00:28:15.980 --> 00:28:18.400
four, five year old, and I was at school and
00:28:18.400 --> 00:28:20.819
someone did something to frustrate me, they take
00:28:20.819 --> 00:28:23.240
a crayon, they take a toy I wasn't done with,
00:28:23.539 --> 00:28:26.380
I might have an exaggerated emotional response
00:28:26.380 --> 00:28:29.759
that's even beyond what a typical toddler who
00:28:29.759 --> 00:28:32.259
hadn't experienced hypervigilance. might come
00:28:32.259 --> 00:28:35.059
up with, or I might become upset in a situation
00:28:35.059 --> 00:28:37.299
where one of my peers might not otherwise. And
00:28:37.299 --> 00:28:39.859
I could be potentially harder to console just
00:28:39.859 --> 00:28:41.460
more. When you say dysregulate, that's sort of
00:28:41.460 --> 00:28:44.539
what that looks like in toddlers. Is that? That's
00:28:44.539 --> 00:28:46.460
fair and accurate. OK, that's great. So what
00:28:46.460 --> 00:28:49.000
do you think about for people who are listening
00:28:49.000 --> 00:28:51.640
in as really important buffers or protective
00:28:51.640 --> 00:28:53.839
factors for this type of stress response that
00:28:53.839 --> 00:28:56.440
you mentioned? And are there things that we can
00:28:56.440 --> 00:28:58.440
think about in terms of these protective factors
00:28:58.440 --> 00:29:00.680
that really help to maintain stability, even
00:29:00.859 --> 00:29:03.279
you know, when a lot of families are really navigating
00:29:03.279 --> 00:29:06.180
some pretty challenging circumstances. Yeah,
00:29:06.339 --> 00:29:09.000
I think we talk about this quite a bit in the
00:29:09.000 --> 00:29:11.579
working paper, but I really come back to that
00:29:11.579 --> 00:29:15.089
aspect of setting up. critical routines for young
00:29:15.089 --> 00:29:18.549
children, early infants, things that help to,
00:29:18.549 --> 00:29:20.890
you know, substantiate that serve and return
00:29:20.890 --> 00:29:23.549
dynamic that we often talk about of modeling
00:29:23.549 --> 00:29:25.869
sort of appropriate emotional regulation for
00:29:25.869 --> 00:29:28.390
young children. You can imagine that things like
00:29:28.390 --> 00:29:31.109
consistent meal time, or you can actually engage
00:29:31.109 --> 00:29:34.410
with your child, or you can form the, you know,
00:29:34.549 --> 00:29:38.029
enact these sort of formative, you know, exchanges,
00:29:38.390 --> 00:29:40.730
learn language with one another. Bedtime routines
00:29:40.730 --> 00:29:43.009
are also very important as we know. I think Dr.
00:29:43.150 --> 00:29:45.569
Swapn's already mentioned the sort of Urban Institute
00:29:45.569 --> 00:29:47.829
web. There are a lot of things there that provide
00:29:47.829 --> 00:29:50.009
that. I think one that we should probably talk
00:29:50.009 --> 00:29:53.250
even more about is sleep. I think sleep is incredibly
00:29:53.250 --> 00:29:57.869
important. Having not just that consistency of
00:29:57.869 --> 00:30:00.849
a bedtime rhythm, but actually allowing for adequate
00:30:00.849 --> 00:30:03.470
amounts of sleep. I think we've learned a little
00:30:03.470 --> 00:30:05.630
bit more about the neurobiology of sleep. It
00:30:05.630 --> 00:30:07.849
really is the sort of rinse cycle of the brain
00:30:07.849 --> 00:30:10.700
that helps to take out a lot of potential toxins,
00:30:10.920 --> 00:30:13.119
a lot of potential proteins that build up during
00:30:13.119 --> 00:30:15.680
our waking hours. And all those things are really
00:30:15.680 --> 00:30:18.839
important to flush out for healthy neural development.
00:30:19.339 --> 00:30:21.579
So having these sorts of routines can be really
00:30:21.579 --> 00:30:25.299
important for buffering against instability and
00:30:25.299 --> 00:30:27.920
unpredictability, even in situations where there
00:30:27.920 --> 00:30:30.700
are sort of systemic factors at play that make
00:30:30.700 --> 00:30:33.119
that difficult. Rinse cycle is my new favorite
00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:35.019
way to talk about sleep. Thank you for that.
00:30:36.470 --> 00:30:39.509
No, it's amazing. We had earlier this year, I
00:30:39.509 --> 00:30:41.369
can't remember the exact time, this really interesting
00:30:41.369 --> 00:30:43.569
conversation with a sleep specialist named Rebecca
00:30:43.569 --> 00:30:46.349
Spencer. And she talked actually about exactly
00:30:46.349 --> 00:30:48.990
what you said, how important, you know, not only
00:30:48.990 --> 00:30:52.390
routines, but the restorative function of sleep
00:30:52.390 --> 00:30:55.430
so that you can actually, you know, promote healthier
00:30:55.430 --> 00:30:59.029
development because of the kind of cleanup that
00:30:59.029 --> 00:31:00.750
happens during that time. And she also talked
00:31:00.750 --> 00:31:03.950
a lot about how even children having consistency
00:31:03.950 --> 00:31:06.819
to be able to nap. at stable and predictable
00:31:06.819 --> 00:31:10.880
times allows them to download and process language
00:31:10.880 --> 00:31:13.559
and information and actually that it helps them
00:31:13.559 --> 00:31:16.700
to make sense of the social and emotional experiences
00:31:16.700 --> 00:31:19.119
they have throughout the day so that they can,
00:31:19.119 --> 00:31:21.859
you know, understand the way that things exist
00:31:21.859 --> 00:31:23.940
in the world and process language. And they,
00:31:23.940 --> 00:31:26.019
you know, develop all of these skills much better
00:31:26.019 --> 00:31:29.539
when they're able to consistently and predictably
00:31:29.539 --> 00:31:31.960
sleep. And I know in my clinical practice, as
00:31:31.960 --> 00:31:33.839
kids get older through toddlerhood, especially
00:31:33.839 --> 00:31:36.809
people will notice you know, if you miss and,
00:31:36.809 --> 00:31:39.789
you know, nap time is shifted by hours or bedtime
00:31:39.789 --> 00:31:42.170
can't be when it typically is, it's much harder
00:31:42.170 --> 00:31:45.190
to achieve that specific sleep. But the things
00:31:45.190 --> 00:31:48.349
that make consistent sleep easier are the conditions
00:31:48.349 --> 00:31:50.390
that are surrounding people, right? When they're
00:31:50.390 --> 00:31:52.890
raising young kids, like we can have the best
00:31:52.890 --> 00:31:55.960
intentions to do a consistent. bedtime routine
00:31:55.960 --> 00:31:58.660
and it's really hard if you're working, you know,
00:31:58.880 --> 00:32:00.740
an unpredictable work schedule or things are
00:32:00.740 --> 00:32:03.400
changing in your environment. So yeah, back to
00:32:03.400 --> 00:32:06.490
like how interconnected it all is. So let's shift
00:32:06.490 --> 00:32:10.509
just a little bit to talk about another increasing
00:32:10.509 --> 00:32:13.349
factor of instability, the way that extreme weather
00:32:13.349 --> 00:32:15.910
events and our changing climate are affecting
00:32:15.910 --> 00:32:18.369
children's developmental environments. And I
00:32:18.369 --> 00:32:20.890
think, Natalie, let's start with you on this
00:32:20.890 --> 00:32:23.289
one. These climate -related events, and by that
00:32:23.289 --> 00:32:26.049
I mean the increasing frequency and severity
00:32:26.049 --> 00:32:29.130
of wildfires, flooding, heat waves, and high
00:32:29.130 --> 00:32:31.789
heat days, we're seeing a lot more displacement
00:32:31.789 --> 00:32:35.480
as a result of these events. In many cases, structures
00:32:35.480 --> 00:32:37.859
being lost when homes are destroyed. And these
00:32:37.859 --> 00:32:40.920
secondary impacts are really showing up in things
00:32:40.920 --> 00:32:43.740
like the housing market, and then very closely
00:32:43.740 --> 00:32:46.400
related, the insurance market. So can you talk
00:32:46.400 --> 00:32:49.000
about a little bit of, and we get into this in
00:32:49.000 --> 00:32:51.519
the paper as well, how these climate events are
00:32:51.519 --> 00:32:55.420
affecting housing stability for families? Sure.
00:32:55.940 --> 00:32:59.640
So there's a lot of statistics around the way
00:32:59.640 --> 00:33:02.500
that climate change is acting as a destabilizer
00:33:02.500 --> 00:33:06.859
of children's environments. And it's not just
00:33:06.859 --> 00:33:10.119
loss of homes, as you say, Lindsay. It's also
00:33:10.119 --> 00:33:15.660
the economic consequences for insurance as well
00:33:15.660 --> 00:33:22.109
as thinking about the natural are the changes
00:33:22.109 --> 00:33:24.390
in the air quality and water quality that can
00:33:24.390 --> 00:33:26.809
follow as well that may make it so that certain
00:33:26.809 --> 00:33:29.630
spaces are no longer habitable. And we saw that.
00:33:30.150 --> 00:33:33.069
We've seen this in many examples around our country,
00:33:33.410 --> 00:33:37.210
sadly, in the past few years. So if we connect
00:33:37.210 --> 00:33:41.450
this topic of climate change to housing stability,
00:33:45.059 --> 00:33:48.619
People can be displaced with no clear timeline
00:33:48.619 --> 00:33:53.920
of return, and they may move to live with friends
00:33:53.920 --> 00:33:56.720
or families, or they could find themselves in
00:33:56.720 --> 00:34:00.720
some kind of... you know, temporary or overcrowded
00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:03.519
shelter situation that's going to disrupt all
00:34:03.519 --> 00:34:05.920
aspects of life. So I think that depending on
00:34:05.920 --> 00:34:08.679
the extent of resources that people have prior
00:34:08.679 --> 00:34:11.360
to disaster, that very much could affect the
00:34:11.360 --> 00:34:13.119
extent to which they're going to have stability
00:34:13.119 --> 00:34:16.679
following a disaster. And unfortunately, our
00:34:16.679 --> 00:34:19.039
members of society with the fewest resources
00:34:19.039 --> 00:34:22.739
are most likely experiencing the worst consequences
00:34:22.739 --> 00:34:26.119
following climate disasters in terms of stability
00:34:26.119 --> 00:34:30.139
across all other forms of life related to their
00:34:30.139 --> 00:34:33.960
jobs and food. all the important things that
00:34:33.960 --> 00:34:37.420
we know matter for healthy child development.
00:34:37.679 --> 00:34:39.760
We know that these climate events can really
00:34:39.760 --> 00:34:43.980
disrupt social networks as well, and communities
00:34:43.980 --> 00:34:48.079
cohesion, and people may need to leave their
00:34:48.079 --> 00:34:50.659
community context and not have an opportunity
00:34:50.659 --> 00:34:53.699
to return. And we can just think about the day
00:34:53.699 --> 00:34:56.719
-to -day life for a child who is displaced. It's
00:34:56.719 --> 00:35:02.420
not just the loss of a home, but they may have
00:35:02.420 --> 00:35:05.840
changed in nearly all aspects of their life.
00:35:07.079 --> 00:35:10.139
They may no longer attend a school. For a certain
00:35:10.139 --> 00:35:12.079
duration, they may attend a new school. They
00:35:12.079 --> 00:35:15.539
may not ever return to the same doctors and on
00:35:15.539 --> 00:35:18.860
and on. So there's so much instability that can
00:35:18.860 --> 00:35:22.900
follow from climate change. And this is a really
00:35:22.900 --> 00:35:27.599
important area for investment and research to
00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:30.300
think about how can we set up systems to stabilize
00:35:30.300 --> 00:35:33.260
children's lives as quickly as possible following
00:35:33.260 --> 00:35:35.980
disasters and how can we be ready to do that
00:35:35.980 --> 00:35:38.960
even before the disasters occur. Couldn't agree
00:35:38.960 --> 00:35:42.320
more. I was thinking about these events are going
00:35:42.320 --> 00:35:45.260
to continue to happen. And so how do we create
00:35:45.260 --> 00:35:48.760
stability in places that are so anchoring as
00:35:48.760 --> 00:35:51.639
a source of health and wellness for children?
00:35:51.920 --> 00:35:54.139
When we were doing the paper, one of the most
00:35:54.139 --> 00:35:56.199
interesting conversations I thought we had was
00:35:56.199 --> 00:35:59.400
from the group in Maui. There was the Maui wildfire
00:35:59.400 --> 00:36:01.940
exposure study that was looking at how people
00:36:01.940 --> 00:36:05.199
experienced housing stability in now the three
00:36:05.199 --> 00:36:08.380
years after the terrible wildfires. out and they
00:36:08.380 --> 00:36:11.500
found that even three years later, a really high
00:36:11.500 --> 00:36:13.880
percentage of people are still experiencing housing
00:36:13.880 --> 00:36:16.920
instability and many few people are able to afford
00:36:16.920 --> 00:36:19.980
owning their homes. And because of changes in
00:36:19.980 --> 00:36:23.780
the market that happen when the lots and the
00:36:23.780 --> 00:36:26.739
houses are bought up after the disasters occur.
00:36:26.980 --> 00:36:29.440
And so that again, just has cascading effects
00:36:29.440 --> 00:36:32.199
on things like intergenerational wealth. So they
00:36:32.199 --> 00:36:35.460
really have a pad, I thought. really informative
00:36:35.460 --> 00:36:39.320
data on how important it is to say when these
00:36:39.320 --> 00:36:41.719
events occur, what can we do to minimize the
00:36:41.719 --> 00:36:45.619
disruption? So Nate, when people, families in
00:36:45.619 --> 00:36:48.039
particular, experience these disruptions and
00:36:48.039 --> 00:36:50.820
displacements after whether it's a flood or a
00:36:50.820 --> 00:36:54.079
wildfire or a storm like a hurricane, what does
00:36:54.079 --> 00:36:56.980
that type of instability related to climate in
00:36:56.980 --> 00:36:59.840
particular mean for infant and young children's
00:36:59.840 --> 00:37:03.199
mental health in their sense of safety? I think
00:37:03.199 --> 00:37:06.179
it means a lot. I think that Dr. Slopan and you
00:37:06.179 --> 00:37:08.039
have already touched on quite a bit of it. I
00:37:08.039 --> 00:37:10.719
think what I'd like to add to that is it's really
00:37:10.719 --> 00:37:13.480
important to remember that floods, fire, storms,
00:37:13.940 --> 00:37:16.780
all fall under the umbrella of traumatic events.
00:37:17.199 --> 00:37:19.219
These are traumatically stressful events that
00:37:19.219 --> 00:37:22.539
can lead to PTSD, depression, anxiety, other
00:37:22.539 --> 00:37:25.360
sorts of psychiatric disorders. As we've sort
00:37:25.360 --> 00:37:28.099
of been talking, they're all interrelated with
00:37:28.099 --> 00:37:30.199
these other aspects of instability. It's not
00:37:30.199 --> 00:37:33.340
as though you experience a flood or a fire or
00:37:33.340 --> 00:37:36.380
storm and you lose your home. And then next week
00:37:36.380 --> 00:37:38.579
you have a new home and everything's stable again.
00:37:39.000 --> 00:37:40.480
It has, as you've already sort of mentioned,
00:37:41.139 --> 00:37:43.500
these knockdown effects on intergenerational
00:37:43.500 --> 00:37:44.980
wealth. Where are you going to be living for
00:37:44.980 --> 00:37:48.139
the next six months? If you have to leave the
00:37:48.139 --> 00:37:50.039
area that you're from where you've gone to school.
00:37:50.510 --> 00:37:52.349
Are there other aspects of you have to go to
00:37:52.349 --> 00:37:53.989
a new school? How long will you live there? When
00:37:53.989 --> 00:37:56.510
do you get to go back home? And they're all questions
00:37:56.510 --> 00:38:00.349
that as kids and young children are developing
00:38:00.349 --> 00:38:04.190
may not be the most sort of concrete conceptually
00:38:04.190 --> 00:38:07.329
for them. And that introduces other aspects of
00:38:07.329 --> 00:38:09.349
a loss of control, a loss of predictability,
00:38:09.469 --> 00:38:11.769
a loss of stability that all impact the sense
00:38:11.769 --> 00:38:14.670
of safety. And so I think that getting to your
00:38:14.670 --> 00:38:17.670
question like most directly That type of instability
00:38:17.670 --> 00:38:19.889
means a lot for children's mental health, just
00:38:19.889 --> 00:38:22.190
in terms of potentially deleterious consequences,
00:38:22.510 --> 00:38:24.050
like these psychiatric disorders that we've already
00:38:24.050 --> 00:38:27.170
talked about, and it has an impact on just how
00:38:27.170 --> 00:38:29.730
safe they're going to feel in these neighborhoods
00:38:29.730 --> 00:38:32.190
that they've grown up. And I think, as Dr. Shlopens
00:38:32.190 --> 00:38:34.829
already mentioned, that aspect of safety is really
00:38:34.829 --> 00:38:37.190
important for long -term development and for
00:38:37.190 --> 00:38:40.170
healthy emotional development down term. So,
00:38:40.250 --> 00:38:42.429
Nina, if we're thinking particularly about the
00:38:42.429 --> 00:38:44.840
mental health, piece of it. Is there anything
00:38:44.840 --> 00:38:47.260
that comes top of mind that's like really especially
00:38:47.260 --> 00:38:50.039
important from like a protective standpoint to
00:38:50.039 --> 00:38:52.920
think about if we know that a wildfire is likely
00:38:52.920 --> 00:38:55.539
to occur in an area where we might be prone to
00:38:55.539 --> 00:38:58.360
hurricanes or flooding? Is there something particularly
00:38:58.360 --> 00:39:01.099
helpful for children's mental health that people
00:39:01.099 --> 00:39:03.619
who want to provide buffering resources can think
00:39:03.619 --> 00:39:06.280
about? You know, one of the great things about
00:39:06.280 --> 00:39:09.039
XC now is that we've produced a series of working
00:39:09.039 --> 00:39:11.719
papers power related to different climate health
00:39:11.719 --> 00:39:14.519
and climate change aspects. And I think there's
00:39:14.519 --> 00:39:16.659
a number of resources or a number of ideas there
00:39:16.659 --> 00:39:18.719
in terms of policy. I think that, you know, speaking
00:39:18.719 --> 00:39:22.420
very broad terms. If we have individuals who
00:39:22.420 --> 00:39:25.780
are living in these areas that are prone to climate
00:39:25.780 --> 00:39:29.320
change -related outcomes, we have to be investing
00:39:29.320 --> 00:39:31.579
in those communities in ways that are going to
00:39:31.579 --> 00:39:34.320
best protect them, in ways that are going to
00:39:34.320 --> 00:39:37.699
minimize the likelihood for deleterious wildfires
00:39:37.699 --> 00:39:42.320
or flooding to occur, rebuilding infrastructure
00:39:42.320 --> 00:39:44.480
that's going to protect them. Because all those
00:39:44.480 --> 00:39:47.000
things are going to have knockdown effects on
00:39:47.000 --> 00:39:49.860
protecting childhood health and well -being.
00:39:50.679 --> 00:39:51.960
And I don't know, Natalie, if you have things
00:39:51.960 --> 00:39:53.679
you want to add to that. Well, Natalie, I wondered,
00:39:53.880 --> 00:39:56.460
is there a role for that? We've talked in our
00:39:56.460 --> 00:39:59.840
other conversations and in the paper a lot about
00:39:59.840 --> 00:40:03.179
the Childhood Opportunity Index as a particular
00:40:03.179 --> 00:40:06.480
way and tool that's publicly available that people
00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:09.760
can use to kind of understand where investment
00:40:09.760 --> 00:40:12.199
will be particularly helpful for young children.
00:40:12.320 --> 00:40:13.940
And you may not know, and I'm sort of surprising
00:40:13.940 --> 00:40:15.739
you with the question. So if you don't know,
00:40:15.880 --> 00:40:19.800
it's totally fine. In these resilience building
00:40:19.800 --> 00:40:22.199
ways, particularly around climate, have people
00:40:22.199 --> 00:40:24.679
used that as a way to understand what we can
00:40:24.679 --> 00:40:27.800
do and where? I will just say that the government
00:40:27.800 --> 00:40:31.000
has developed a measure called the Social Vulnerability
00:40:31.000 --> 00:40:33.780
Index that was designed specifically for the
00:40:33.780 --> 00:40:36.460
purpose of understanding, you know, what are
00:40:36.460 --> 00:40:41.659
the small, you know, tract units, like basically
00:40:41.659 --> 00:40:44.219
getting beyond just, you know, regional, but
00:40:44.219 --> 00:40:45.940
getting to the census tract level, which is a
00:40:45.940 --> 00:40:49.260
proxy for a neighborhood, which communities may
00:40:49.260 --> 00:40:51.900
have. you know, the greatest risks of poor outcomes
00:40:51.900 --> 00:40:55.619
in the context of natural disasters. And my understanding
00:40:55.619 --> 00:40:58.420
is that was the purpose of the Social Vulnerability
00:40:58.420 --> 00:41:01.099
Index was developed with that in mind. That said,
00:41:01.219 --> 00:41:03.780
the Child Opportunity Index is strongly correlated
00:41:03.780 --> 00:41:08.199
with so many of these place -based indices and
00:41:08.199 --> 00:41:11.199
could be, in theory, particularly helpful for
00:41:11.199 --> 00:41:13.500
understanding which contexts have more or less
00:41:13.500 --> 00:41:21.130
resources which we know could be indicative of
00:41:21.130 --> 00:41:23.829
where we need the greatest investments to help
00:41:23.829 --> 00:41:26.489
communities be prepared in the context of disasters.
00:41:26.489 --> 00:41:29.210
We know that the Child Opportunity Index is a
00:41:29.210 --> 00:41:33.929
really excellent composite way to understand
00:41:33.929 --> 00:41:39.070
communities that have more or less resources
00:41:39.070 --> 00:41:41.570
that support healthy child development. So I
00:41:41.570 --> 00:41:43.869
do. I agree with you that it could work for that
00:41:43.869 --> 00:41:46.389
purpose. Yeah. Thank you. Let's dive a little
00:41:46.389 --> 00:41:49.289
bit now into policy, in particular, and policies
00:41:49.289 --> 00:41:52.010
that can promote stability. Because I think one
00:41:52.010 --> 00:41:53.750
of the key messages that we all really wanted
00:41:53.750 --> 00:41:56.250
to get across in our working paper is that stability
00:41:56.250 --> 00:41:59.269
isn't just a family issue. It's not an individual
00:41:59.269 --> 00:42:02.710
level construct. It's something that really policies
00:42:02.710 --> 00:42:04.369
and systems, which we've talked about throughout
00:42:04.369 --> 00:42:06.690
this hour, can really promote or they can undermine.
00:42:08.050 --> 00:42:10.570
So, Nate, we talked in the paper about how strengthening
00:42:10.570 --> 00:42:13.039
the stability in one area Like whether it's housing
00:42:13.039 --> 00:42:15.639
or income can really have these ripple and cascading
00:42:15.639 --> 00:42:18.599
effects on other parts of environment Children's
00:42:18.599 --> 00:42:20.539
environments. So can you talk a little bit about
00:42:20.539 --> 00:42:22.800
this multiplier effect? Which I think Natalie
00:42:22.800 --> 00:42:25.800
actually really closely relates to your research
00:42:25.800 --> 00:42:29.639
as well So I'll talk and then I think maybe dr
00:42:29.639 --> 00:42:31.460
Sultan will have a better answer for it but you
00:42:31.460 --> 00:42:33.219
know the way I often think about this is sort
00:42:33.219 --> 00:42:37.059
of the inverse of that sort of interrelated deleterious
00:42:37.059 --> 00:42:39.500
compounding effect that we talk about so if it's
00:42:39.500 --> 00:42:42.949
the case that you know individuals who grow up
00:42:42.949 --> 00:42:45.409
in neighborhoods that have less resources and
00:42:45.409 --> 00:42:47.429
then they also have lower income and also other
00:42:47.429 --> 00:42:49.610
things that impact their stability is going to
00:42:49.610 --> 00:42:52.670
have these interrelated effects on biology and
00:42:52.670 --> 00:42:55.369
development and mental health. So too, affecting
00:42:55.369 --> 00:42:58.469
one of these things to try to tug the strings
00:42:58.469 --> 00:43:01.329
and move the needle across many of these things
00:43:01.329 --> 00:43:04.139
are going to have cumulative, multiple effects
00:43:04.139 --> 00:43:07.719
on protective or positive aspects of development.
00:43:08.300 --> 00:43:11.960
And so when we think about strengthening an individual's
00:43:11.960 --> 00:43:15.239
stability in their housing, they're able to have
00:43:15.239 --> 00:43:17.480
regular routines at home, they're able to know
00:43:17.480 --> 00:43:18.619
where they're going to live, they're able to
00:43:18.619 --> 00:43:19.960
know where food is going to be placed on the
00:43:19.960 --> 00:43:22.420
table, as Dr. Sopanari mentioned, that's going
00:43:22.420 --> 00:43:24.440
to have downstream and multiplicative effects
00:43:24.440 --> 00:43:26.300
on how they show up at school, how they show
00:43:26.300 --> 00:43:29.340
up in their other relationships and lead to or
00:43:29.340 --> 00:43:32.519
contribute to these other positive aspects where
00:43:32.519 --> 00:43:35.420
because you've strengthened one aspect, they're
00:43:35.420 --> 00:43:37.980
able to have the bandwidth, the ability, the
00:43:37.980 --> 00:43:40.280
resources to show up into another aspect of their
00:43:40.280 --> 00:43:42.940
lives and sort of continue on with these sort
00:43:42.940 --> 00:43:44.940
of positive impacts. And that's the way I often
00:43:44.940 --> 00:43:47.239
think about sort of this multiplier effect. And
00:43:47.239 --> 00:43:49.840
feel free to jump in if I've misconstrued our
00:43:49.840 --> 00:43:51.679
work. I don't think you misconstrued it. Natalie,
00:43:51.840 --> 00:43:54.059
is there anything you would add or any kind of
00:43:54.059 --> 00:43:57.219
specific examples of either policies or strategies
00:43:57.219 --> 00:43:59.579
you've seen in your work that have been particularly
00:43:59.579 --> 00:44:03.019
helpful in promoting stability? Sure. Well, no,
00:44:03.079 --> 00:44:05.739
I will just say that I agree with everything
00:44:05.739 --> 00:44:09.760
that Dr. Harnett said. And I think that on that
00:44:09.760 --> 00:44:11.760
idea of multiplier effects, I think the more
00:44:11.760 --> 00:44:17.530
that we can set up our prevention -oriented policies
00:44:17.530 --> 00:44:20.829
to allow for that multiplicative effect, the
00:44:20.829 --> 00:44:22.949
better. So, for example, streamlining access
00:44:22.949 --> 00:44:25.210
to different support programs where, let's say,
00:44:25.250 --> 00:44:29.789
if somebody is participating in Head Start, encouraging
00:44:29.789 --> 00:44:32.929
these programs to help families enroll in other
00:44:32.929 --> 00:44:35.530
benefits that the families may be entitled to,
00:44:35.670 --> 00:44:38.690
that can be, you know, very advantageous, and
00:44:38.690 --> 00:44:40.989
I know happens, you know, across the country.
00:44:41.230 --> 00:44:45.300
But thinking about ways we can Support families
00:44:45.300 --> 00:44:49.559
as much as possible to receive the different
00:44:49.559 --> 00:44:52.159
benefits that they may be entitled to and as
00:44:52.159 --> 00:44:55.320
many of them as possible is likely a great path
00:44:55.320 --> 00:44:59.019
forward. So really understanding how to perform
00:44:59.019 --> 00:45:01.900
our safety net programs to really match what
00:45:01.900 --> 00:45:05.440
families needs would be a great path forward.
00:45:06.059 --> 00:45:09.519
I totally agree. In the working paper and the
00:45:09.519 --> 00:45:11.719
resources that we created to accompany it, we
00:45:11.719 --> 00:45:14.619
really tried to highlight specific solutions
00:45:14.619 --> 00:45:17.320
that were out there that either were being implemented
00:45:17.320 --> 00:45:20.260
or being explored. So I guess I would ask both
00:45:20.260 --> 00:45:22.900
of you, from your individual perspectives, what
00:45:22.900 --> 00:45:25.559
do you see as any, if you could call out any
00:45:25.559 --> 00:45:28.320
opportunities for really strengthening stability
00:45:28.320 --> 00:45:31.739
for families, especially with young kids? What
00:45:31.739 --> 00:45:34.420
are policymakers or practitioners or leaders
00:45:34.420 --> 00:45:43.699
prioritizing now? I think that the policies and
00:45:43.699 --> 00:45:46.539
practices that are going to improve housing stability
00:45:46.539 --> 00:45:48.739
are the ones that I think are most promising
00:45:48.739 --> 00:45:51.630
and exciting for me. things that help to alleviate
00:45:51.630 --> 00:45:54.730
the burden of growing rent costs, things to help
00:45:54.730 --> 00:45:58.530
alleviate the burden of growing cost to families
00:45:58.530 --> 00:46:01.570
who are just trying to make it day to day. Ways
00:46:01.570 --> 00:46:04.210
in which we prioritize housing affordability
00:46:04.210 --> 00:46:07.969
and housing availability are all the things that,
00:46:08.369 --> 00:46:11.030
to me, when you think about which are going to
00:46:11.030 --> 00:46:13.650
have the strongest multiplicative effects on
00:46:13.650 --> 00:46:16.949
keeping kids sort of having these feelings of
00:46:16.949 --> 00:46:19.579
safety. have these feelings of stability and
00:46:19.579 --> 00:46:21.940
predictability in their lives, that's a big one
00:46:21.940 --> 00:46:24.039
that alleviates a lot of burden for parents and
00:46:24.039 --> 00:46:26.760
their caregivers. All right. And I will add just
00:46:26.760 --> 00:46:32.980
two things. I'd like to talk about food security.
00:46:33.000 --> 00:46:35.840
And I think that we really need to protect policies
00:46:35.840 --> 00:46:39.519
that ensure that families have access to healthy
00:46:39.519 --> 00:46:42.320
food options. There's very high rates of food
00:46:42.320 --> 00:46:44.820
insecurity in this country and fear that it could
00:46:44.820 --> 00:46:48.110
get worse for certain segments of our population,
00:46:48.190 --> 00:46:50.829
and that's a really active political area right
00:46:50.829 --> 00:46:55.010
now. So food stability is one topic that I think
00:46:55.010 --> 00:46:58.670
we can't overemphasize how important it is to
00:46:58.670 --> 00:47:02.449
all aspects of healthy family functioning, both
00:47:02.449 --> 00:47:06.010
parents and children. And the second point I'll
00:47:06.010 --> 00:47:08.360
mention is just something that is important,
00:47:08.380 --> 00:47:09.739
and we talk about it in the paper, but I'm not
00:47:09.739 --> 00:47:12.539
sure has come up yet, which is investing in the
00:47:12.539 --> 00:47:15.599
early childhood workforce. We know that this
00:47:15.599 --> 00:47:21.340
is a segment of the labor market where earnings
00:47:21.340 --> 00:47:23.880
are not where they should be, and that can lead
00:47:23.880 --> 00:47:27.460
to a lot of turnover. So early child care settings
00:47:27.460 --> 00:47:31.280
can be a place for nurturing relationships. And
00:47:31.280 --> 00:47:34.059
we need to think about, you know, supporting
00:47:34.059 --> 00:47:37.519
this essential part of our economy with living
00:47:37.519 --> 00:47:40.500
wages and benefits so that there can be stability
00:47:40.500 --> 00:47:42.739
for the children attending these programs. Yeah,
00:47:42.940 --> 00:47:45.719
I couldn't agree more. So we're going to shift
00:47:45.719 --> 00:47:48.320
to a little bit of audience questions now. So
00:47:48.320 --> 00:47:51.840
we asked for a submission of questions before
00:47:51.840 --> 00:47:54.320
our webinar and we got quite a few. So we won't
00:47:54.320 --> 00:47:56.099
be able to cover them all, but tried to pick
00:47:56.099 --> 00:48:00.139
up some common themes here. So there is a question
00:48:00.139 --> 00:48:03.460
about how can we offer stability to families
00:48:03.460 --> 00:48:06.460
who lack even what we'd consider like a minimum
00:48:06.460 --> 00:48:09.579
standard of living? So are there realistic supports,
00:48:10.079 --> 00:48:12.599
particularly question asked about new mothers
00:48:12.599 --> 00:48:15.320
in these conditions? So maybe, Natalie, I'll
00:48:15.320 --> 00:48:18.780
pose that one to you. It's a really good question
00:48:18.780 --> 00:48:23.320
and a hard question because I think that the
00:48:23.320 --> 00:48:26.940
ability to support families such as the one described
00:48:26.940 --> 00:48:30.639
in this question may really depend on context.
00:48:30.659 --> 00:48:33.519
So we know that there are very strong and supportive
00:48:33.519 --> 00:48:36.099
community -based organizations that look very
00:48:36.099 --> 00:48:38.719
different in different cities and parts of the
00:48:38.719 --> 00:48:43.289
country that can create communities for people
00:48:43.289 --> 00:48:46.889
that may be quite isolated and be lacking in
00:48:46.889 --> 00:48:51.530
resources. And so I don't know that there's a
00:48:51.530 --> 00:48:54.489
singular piece of advice that an individual can
00:48:54.489 --> 00:48:57.469
offer, but I think finding ways to connect people
00:48:57.469 --> 00:49:03.369
to the resources that do exist. And they may
00:49:03.369 --> 00:49:06.469
exist in different places depending on where
00:49:06.469 --> 00:49:08.929
you are. It may be through religious organizations.
00:49:08.989 --> 00:49:13.400
It could be through family networks, it could
00:49:13.400 --> 00:49:18.699
be, you know, tapping into entitlement benefits.
00:49:19.500 --> 00:49:24.739
But I think that it's a hard question, but requires
00:49:24.739 --> 00:49:29.260
a tailored answer based on where an individual
00:49:29.260 --> 00:49:32.400
is residing. I'd love for both Dr. Burghardt
00:49:32.400 --> 00:49:34.920
or Dr. Harnett to jump in, because I don't have
00:49:34.920 --> 00:49:37.099
a great answer here, other than saying that answer
00:49:37.099 --> 00:49:40.019
is likely local. I do think it's a really hard
00:49:40.019 --> 00:49:42.000
question, and you... you know, one thing that
00:49:42.000 --> 00:49:43.739
I was thinking about that you named just now
00:49:43.739 --> 00:49:46.360
and then earlier that I think is worth highlighting
00:49:46.360 --> 00:49:49.920
is like the power of social supports and social
00:49:49.920 --> 00:49:51.880
networks and actually drawing on the strengths
00:49:51.880 --> 00:49:55.079
that already exist in communities. So, Natalie,
00:49:55.119 --> 00:49:58.239
are you familiar or, you know, can you speak
00:49:58.239 --> 00:50:01.360
a little bit to like the research of why and
00:50:01.360 --> 00:50:04.719
how that social connectedness is so important
00:50:04.719 --> 00:50:06.500
for early childhood? Because I think in some
00:50:06.500 --> 00:50:08.639
of these, we're looking at places that may be
00:50:08.639 --> 00:50:11.980
like economically resource deprived, this would
00:50:11.980 --> 00:50:14.119
be a thing that we could kind of draw attention
00:50:14.119 --> 00:50:18.119
to highlight and support. Sure, so there's different
00:50:18.119 --> 00:50:20.739
forms of social support and social, you know,
00:50:20.940 --> 00:50:22.820
or social connectedness and different ways that
00:50:22.820 --> 00:50:25.780
it benefits families. So in some cases it's material
00:50:25.780 --> 00:50:30.079
support, so truly offering a place to live or
00:50:30.079 --> 00:50:34.719
some economic help or you know, sharing meals
00:50:34.719 --> 00:50:38.059
across community members several times a week.
00:50:38.079 --> 00:50:40.960
In other instances, it's emotional support. So
00:50:40.960 --> 00:50:46.079
being able to share struggles can help you to
00:50:46.079 --> 00:50:48.800
find solutions amongst people that may be in
00:50:48.800 --> 00:50:54.260
similar situations as yourself. And so that is
00:50:54.260 --> 00:50:57.980
a strategy that I think when we think about new
00:50:57.980 --> 00:51:01.500
mothers, as was raised in this question, there's
00:51:01.500 --> 00:51:05.199
a lot of interventions that are available and
00:51:05.199 --> 00:51:08.619
also being tested for their efficacy around creating
00:51:08.619 --> 00:51:13.320
communities for new parents. And there's also,
00:51:13.320 --> 00:51:15.860
you know, tangential support. So how can we structure
00:51:15.860 --> 00:51:18.780
our communities to be set up for people to opt
00:51:18.780 --> 00:51:22.000
into the support that they may need? I think
00:51:22.000 --> 00:51:24.139
that one of the things that Dr. Shilpa mentioned
00:51:24.139 --> 00:51:26.980
that you sort of raised that gets to both like
00:51:26.980 --> 00:51:29.420
your question, the prior question is thinking
00:51:29.420 --> 00:51:32.380
about how these sorts of supports are helpful
00:51:32.380 --> 00:51:34.340
to new mothers and mothers in general, and also
00:51:34.340 --> 00:51:37.519
caregivers, and how that aspect can help improve
00:51:37.519 --> 00:51:40.380
child stability and child predictability. If
00:51:40.380 --> 00:51:42.940
you think about how parents and caregivers are
00:51:42.940 --> 00:51:46.320
taking on all this stress, the stress of instability,
00:51:46.500 --> 00:51:48.559
the stress of food instability, and are the ones
00:51:48.559 --> 00:51:50.880
who can cognitively appreciate all the other
00:51:50.880 --> 00:51:52.929
stressors that are happening around that. That
00:51:52.929 --> 00:51:55.869
takes a big toll on their emotional regulation,
00:51:56.230 --> 00:51:58.269
which also impacts how they show up with their
00:51:58.269 --> 00:52:00.130
children, shows up with those around them. And
00:52:00.130 --> 00:52:02.389
so when we're talking about avenues for social
00:52:02.389 --> 00:52:05.250
support or behavioral health, those are really
00:52:05.250 --> 00:52:07.889
important for the mothers expecting or otherwise
00:52:07.889 --> 00:52:10.030
so that they can actually provide the emotional
00:52:10.030 --> 00:52:12.349
support and emotional stability that children
00:52:12.349 --> 00:52:14.210
might need as they're growing up. Well said.
00:52:14.929 --> 00:52:16.550
I have a follow up, not a follow up question,
00:52:16.690 --> 00:52:19.610
but the next question for you, Nate. One person
00:52:19.610 --> 00:52:22.449
wondered, can a child thrive in an economically
00:52:22.449 --> 00:52:24.650
unstable environment? And I would actually say
00:52:24.650 --> 00:52:26.789
like, you could say economically, but insert
00:52:26.789 --> 00:52:29.690
adjective, unstable environment, if their relational
00:52:29.690 --> 00:52:33.239
environment is stable. That's a really good question.
00:52:33.920 --> 00:52:37.539
And my position on that is yes. I think that
00:52:37.539 --> 00:52:40.820
it's really important, it's really easy, I think
00:52:40.820 --> 00:52:42.659
as Dr. Sullivan mentioned at the top of the hour,
00:52:42.900 --> 00:52:45.820
to fall into sort of a deficit framework with
00:52:45.820 --> 00:52:47.579
a lot of the ways we frame this. And I think
00:52:47.579 --> 00:52:49.500
from a neuroscientific perspective, it's important
00:52:49.500 --> 00:52:51.519
to remember that the brain's really adaptive.
00:52:51.820 --> 00:52:53.739
All of these things that we mentioned in terms
00:52:53.739 --> 00:52:56.559
of how the brain is trying to cope with instability
00:52:56.559 --> 00:52:59.079
are all about adapting to the environment in
00:52:59.079 --> 00:53:01.559
which we live and finding ways to keep us safe,
00:53:02.059 --> 00:53:05.559
finding ways to help us survive in whatever situation
00:53:05.559 --> 00:53:08.639
we happen to be in. And so there are many individuals
00:53:08.639 --> 00:53:12.219
who grow up in economically or insert, as you
00:53:12.219 --> 00:53:15.460
mentioned, whatever adjective, unstable environments,
00:53:15.500 --> 00:53:18.659
and they can go on to thrive just fine. It's
00:53:18.659 --> 00:53:22.050
the importance is really in that sense. how you
00:53:22.050 --> 00:53:24.309
have these other buffering relationships and
00:53:24.309 --> 00:53:26.869
these other buffering support to help mitigate
00:53:26.869 --> 00:53:30.210
or circumvent the deleterious impacts of that
00:53:30.210 --> 00:53:33.789
and contribute to what we might call a resilient
00:53:33.789 --> 00:53:37.230
brain in that sense. Short answer, yes, absolutely.
00:53:37.469 --> 00:53:39.969
Natalie, what would you say to that? I completely
00:53:39.969 --> 00:53:42.050
agree. We really need to talk about this body
00:53:42.050 --> 00:53:45.530
of literature as not deterministic and that all
00:53:45.530 --> 00:53:48.630
children have opportunities and some, it may
00:53:48.630 --> 00:53:51.909
be a clearer path and easier to achieve their
00:53:51.909 --> 00:53:55.469
full potential, but none of this is deterministic.
00:53:56.170 --> 00:53:58.989
And Nate can explain to us the neurobiology behind
00:53:58.989 --> 00:54:03.489
it, but yeah. I agree with everything that was
00:54:03.489 --> 00:54:05.630
said. I totally agree. And even when we experience
00:54:05.630 --> 00:54:08.849
these unstable conditions or challenging conditions
00:54:08.849 --> 00:54:11.369
early in life, as Nate mentioned, the brain is
00:54:11.369 --> 00:54:14.710
so plastic and adaptable that we can step in
00:54:14.710 --> 00:54:16.670
and provide supports to children no matter where
00:54:16.670 --> 00:54:18.949
they are in the journey. And the brain continues
00:54:18.949 --> 00:54:21.090
to develop well into our adolescence. And we're
00:54:21.090 --> 00:54:22.909
always making new connections, right, Nate? If
00:54:22.909 --> 00:54:24.849
anybody learned anything this hour, it's a new
00:54:24.849 --> 00:54:28.190
connection. Is that fair? So, you know, it's
00:54:28.190 --> 00:54:30.610
never too late to step in and support young kids
00:54:30.610 --> 00:54:33.389
and their families. So I'm so grateful to you
00:54:33.389 --> 00:54:35.750
both. I really appreciate this conversation.
00:54:35.789 --> 00:54:37.389
I always learn from both of you, even though
00:54:37.389 --> 00:54:39.349
we've been in this work together for years now,
00:54:39.349 --> 00:54:41.670
every time I talk to you both, I learn something
00:54:41.670 --> 00:54:44.090
new and I'm very grateful for your partnership
00:54:44.090 --> 00:54:47.610
and for your ongoing support. So I'm going to
00:54:47.610 --> 00:54:49.949
turn it back over to Rebecca. I encourage all
00:54:49.949 --> 00:54:52.210
of you to explore the working paper, check out
00:54:52.210 --> 00:54:54.989
the resources that we shared, and Rebecca will
00:54:54.989 --> 00:54:57.739
share more about next steps. All right. Thanks,
00:54:57.860 --> 00:55:01.719
Lindsay. And thanks to our panel for a really
00:55:01.719 --> 00:55:04.599
informative conversation today with so much great
00:55:04.599 --> 00:55:07.679
information and actionable takeaways. And finally,
00:55:08.000 --> 00:55:10.599
just thank you again to all of you in our audience
00:55:10.599 --> 00:55:13.000
for taking the time to be here with us today
00:55:13.000 --> 00:55:16.940
and for everything that you do to support kids
00:55:16.940 --> 00:55:19.360
and their caregivers. Hope you enjoy the rest
00:55:19.360 --> 00:55:23.440
of your day. Thank you for listening to The Brain
00:55:23.440 --> 00:55:25.639
Architects. Be sure to check out the Center on
00:55:25.639 --> 00:55:27.980
the Developing Child's website and social channels
00:55:27.980 --> 00:55:30.079
to learn more about the importance of stability
00:55:30.079 --> 00:55:32.739
for early childhood development and to find additional
00:55:32.739 --> 00:55:34.840
strategies for promoting stability for young
00:55:34.840 --> 00:55:37.539
children and their caregivers. See you next time!