INTERVIEW CLASSIC: One-legged WWE wrestler Zack Gowen discusses horrible rep backstage among peers, early Cena and Lesnar impressions, more

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PW torch dot com slash go VIP
now. PW Torch and Spreaker bring
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you the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast. It's time for this week's Interview Classic,
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where Wade Keller interviews one of pro
wrestling's newsmakers ten years ago. This
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week, I interviewed one of the
least popular wrestlers backstage among his peers of
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all time. And that is not
me casting judgment. That is me essentially
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quoting the wrestler who was despised.
He also only had one leg, which
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you would think you might endear him
to wrestlers because of what a great story
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it was for him to become a
pro wrestler. Zach Gowan was his name.
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You probably remember him if you've been
watching wrestling long enough. And I
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interviewed him and he talked about all
the mistakes he made and why he was
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despised back in the locker room in
two thousand and three. In this nearly
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to our interview, he discusses those
mistakes. Also a new documentary on his
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life, including his rehab and recovery
in recent years from drug addiction and much
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more, including early impressions of Brock
Lesner and John Cena. In two thousand
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and three, some Chris benwas stories
backstage details on the brock Lessner attack angle
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that people remember to this day when
he was the victim of a packstage brock
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attack and more. This is a
really good interview. Hope you enjoy it.
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It is today's Wade Keller Pro Wrestling
Podcast Interview Classic four Wednesday, April
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third, twenty twenty four. This
interview originally livestream by the way on April
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third, twenty fourteen, ten years
ago. Welcome to thep W Torch Live
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Cast. I am Wade Keller,
editor and publisher of the Pro Wrestling Torch
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weekly newsletter since nineteen eighty seven and
also Torch dot com and the PW Torch
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Apps, and host of this show. The PW Torch Live Cast available live
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and on demand at PW torchlivecast dot
com. We're on Monday through Friday,
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Mondays in the hour before Raw Tuesday
through Friday at five thirty Eastern two thirty
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Pacific. And even though I live
in Central Time, we don't count Central
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and Mountain because people only say Eastern
and Pacific for some reason, but four
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to thirty Central and three thirty Mountain
time, all right, I said it.
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It is Friday for fourth, as
I mentioned in today's show, is
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brought to you by Autumnore about that
later. Because it is Friday, it
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is interview Friday, and we are
pleased to be joined by today's special guest,
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a WrestleMania and WWE veteran Zach Gowin. Zach, Welcome to the show.
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Wait, thanks so much. You
know, I'm a big supporter of
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you, and I love the Torch
website. Dan. It's nice to be
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on here with you, even with
all those things we said about you back
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in two thousand and three and four. No, I love it, Pat.
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That was Yeah, that was That
was interesting, man, because I
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think about this and I was like
right at the cusp of of of the
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internet explosion with wrestling fans and message
boards and websites and and this that the
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other. And I got to see
my ww career unfold right before my eyes
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in black and white, which is
kind of surreal. I think I think
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the guys might be used to it
now, but I think I was one
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of the first to go through that. Yeah, yeah. Fun. Uh,
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I had to be just an amazing
pist. We're gonna talk about your
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amazing story and people are gonna have
a chance to really experience and get to
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know you in a new documentary coming
out. I believe the uh document Is
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it available on Monday? Is that
the timing of it? It's it's it's
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actually available today and you can find
it at Zach Collan dot com or through
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all my social media websites that we
provide plenty of links to the trailer and
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ordering information. Uh. It's also
available today at Russell KHN and and and
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the Mid South Legends fans passed down
in New or on this weekend and it
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just it just came out today,
right exactly. Yeah, okay, yeah,
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fantastic. Yeah, so great time
to have you on. I had
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a chance to watch an advanced copy, slightly advanced copy last night. Clucked
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in. It's a final version over
two hours act it's gonna be Yeah,
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it's gonna be two hours. It's
some change. That's that's that's the main
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story. And then this two's gonna
have lots of like bonus commentary and matches
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and and different uh anecdotes that didn't
quite fit into the to the main theme
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of the of the documentary. Now, I am remiss. We've kind of
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been chatting here casually, but I
want to let people know who haven't heard
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of you. It's not like you
were a twenty year veteran in WWE.
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Now that what you're known for.
We can't get I don't want to get
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to the five minute mark and not
mentioned this. You are the one legged
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wrestler. You what what makes my
story unique and interesting is the fact that
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I lost I Like the cancer at
eight years old, then at eighteen years
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old a year ten years later,
I became the world's first UH one like
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It professional wrestlers. And at nineteen
years old, nine months after my first
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match, I signed a three year
contract with WWE. UH and that's what
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I'm That's what I'm most known for. That that run ahead with w W,
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where I have to work with guys
like Vincic Man, Paul cog and
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Roddy Piper, you know, absolute
legends in the UH in the industry and
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cultural icons as well. And the
crazy angle with brock lesnar and UH pay
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per VW match with Matt Hardy at
No Murphy right, Yeah, no,
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don't remind me about broclast Well,
well, we'll talk about that. I
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want to get the phone ombers out
if you want to talk to the one
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leged wrestler Zach Gowan Tenacious z he
F also known as that please give us
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a call here six four six seven
nine A two eight. That number again
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is six four six seven nine A
two eight. We are live at five
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thirty seven pm Eastern Friday, April
fourth, on the eve eve of WrestleMania
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thirty Zach, are you following the
product somewhat closely these days or keeping an
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eye on things? I I I
like to keep an eye on things,
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because you know, at the end
of the day, the wrestling industry is
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how I make how I make a
living, So it wouldn't be very smart
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of me, you know, to
ignore ww or TNA. However, with
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having a young family and being incredibly
busy with other projects, it's harked me
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to watch every week. But I
but I, But here's what I think
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from what I've seen in the past
month or so. I think it's I
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think it's getting hot, and I
think it's I think it's hotter now than
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it's been in a long time.
And I feel like we might be on
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the verge of something really really big. This almost almost feels like kind of
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how it did in ninety six,
you know, or ninety five ninety six,
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right before the huge explosion with the
Monday Night Wars. I think we
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might be on the verge of something
that that big, especially with the network
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and the new stars that they have
now, it's really it's a really amazing
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time to be a wrestling event.
So that helps us open the doors too,
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because we do long format interviews here
and with most of our guests,
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we try to talk about the career
of the guests obviously and their experiences,
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but we also like to talk current
events and thrustle Mania two days away.
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We welcome phone calls on Wrestleman if
you want to talk to Zach Gowan,
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get his thoughts and opinions on what
he just talked about. Why why do
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you see wrestling as getting hot?
And we'll compare notes Zach with you,
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you, me, and the callers
on what we think is is reason for
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optimism and and reasons to be guarded
with that optimism at times too. So
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we've opened up the phone lines to
any kind of discussion too about uh,
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this coming weekends events and uh yeah
so oh also yeah, no problem,
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no problem. Let me give the
email editors out to because I want to
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give people plenty of time to send
an email questions. Some people just can't
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talk on the phone for variety reasons
when we're live. Please the email is
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p W Torch live cast at gmail
dot com. That is PW Torch live
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cast at gmail dot com. Should
be pretty easy to remember there. And
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we definitely welcome your email questions.
Okay, go ahead, Tach. Did
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you want to jump into something?
Yeah? Absolutely, you know. This
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is it's an incredible First of all, that we're lying right now because most
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of the most of the interviews and
podcasts I do and and and uh radio
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interviews are taped, so this brings
an extra element of excitement, uh to
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the interview. And that again,
I want to express gratitude for having me
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on and allowing me to share my
story weight it's it's very very gracious of
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you. Uh. Second of all. Second of all, you hit it
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man. We are we This is
the biggest weekend of the year, UH
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for professional wrestling fans. This is
this is and and New Orleans is the
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MECTA. Right now, you know
not only is is uh uh you know,
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WrestleMania for what's happening, but but
big shows from Ring of Honor and
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Dragon Gate, Awesome live shows with
Jake the Snake, Roberts and and and
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j R. With with Stone Gold
on stage, like you know, like
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it's it's a great time to be
a wrestling fan. And I can't imagine
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how much fun they're having down down
South. Right now, We've got Travis
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Bryant, who is the co host
with Bruce Mitchell on Monday nights here on
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the show and also host of the
PW Torch East Coast Cast, available right
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00:10:01.559 --> 00:10:05.000
here at blog Talk Radio at blogtalk
radio dot com slash East Coast Cast.
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Travis is on site with us with
media access all weekend to WrestleMania, Hall
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of Fame and other events, so
we will be looking forward to his reports
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throughout the weekend and updates from him, but especially Monday's live cast in the
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hour before Raw. You're gonna want
to listen live and get Bruce and Travis'
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00:10:22.600 --> 00:10:26.600
thoughts on WrestleMania and also Travis's thoughts
on being their live all weekend, and
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then the East Coast Cast will be
must listen this week. Again, that
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is not on the regular PW torch
live cast feed. It's a separate show.
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The reason for that is we are
PG rated here at the live cast
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in the East Coast cast is simply
put not. So you can find that
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the explicit version of our Torch family
of audio shows at blog talk radio dot
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00:10:48.000 --> 00:10:56.200
com slash East Coastcast and Travis does
a long show and it will be absolutely
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00:10:56.039 --> 00:10:58.960
a must listen this week because he
talks about all of his experience. Experience
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00:11:00.120 --> 00:11:03.279
is in person at Mania, got
some other feet on the ground at WrestleMania
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00:11:03.279 --> 00:11:07.120
weekend. We'll be covering got you
covered all weekend at PW torch dot com
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00:11:07.240 --> 00:11:11.360
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plug free listening experience with a VIP
or Patreon membership. All right, as
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Zech, I want to get into
a lot of questions with you, but
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let's take a caller to first to
get that live interaction with listeners, and
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then I want to dive into your
story somewhat chronologically a little bit, although
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with a documentary coming out and wanting
to encourage people to check that out,
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00:12:01.799 --> 00:12:05.919
will definitely let the longest version of
your story as it's told in that I
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00:12:05.919 --> 00:12:09.720
think two or twelve minute documentary be
be where people go for your full story.
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But I definitely have some questions I
want to delve into and follow up.
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After having watched the documentary last night, really enjoyable, Zach, I
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did not think as a sidebar that
I would necessarily get through the documentary before
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today's interview. I just so much
going on wrestle many a weekend. I
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just got the media link to it
late last night and I stayed up late
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watched the start to finish, and
it was really compelling, and I wanted
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to see how your story ended up
because I didn't know, you know,
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all the details that came out at
the very end about where you've landed today.
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And it's it's been really cool to
watch the documentary and now to have
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you on the show and to be
able to share how other people can get
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the documentary and hear your remarkable story, including some certainly some downpoints in your
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in terms of how you conducted yourself
in WWE and drugs and alcohol and now
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your recovery since then. So we'll
delve all into that in the next few
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minutes. But first I want to
get a phone calls in and I want
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to begin with Eric code three one
four three one four. Thanks for calling.
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00:13:05.320 --> 00:13:09.799
Uh. This I believe is Damien
from Saint Louis and it's correct.
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Way you aliving? Okay? Yeah, we can here refine, just talk
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talk love as you can. Okay, all right, I want say hello
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to Zach. How you doing today, Zach? Hey, damn you thanks
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for calling I great man player and
I deserve Hey. I just want to
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let you know, Zach, I
have watched your w W work over a
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decade ago, and you are a
very inspiring person. You know, just
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you know, you're not gonna let
the right leg, you know, the
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00:13:39.120 --> 00:13:43.000
fact you have one leg keep you
from pursuing your dream of being a professional
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wrestler. And I definitely respect the
hell out of you for it, man,
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and I just want to give you
thanks. Where is the question that
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I'm pretty sure it is on a
lot of people's mind of quick, A
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lot of people know you for having
that match against good Land Vengeance two thousand
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three. Now, what was it
like working with this? How did you
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guys? What? How did Jo
with a pointed to Jebu and the other
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And another thing is what was that
spot you hit Vice with the hair?
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You know this, you know visit
you with the shirt in the face and
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he actually had that lay job.
I just remember what was up with it,
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but I don't know about it.
That's all I have. Thanks,
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Thanks, amen, thank you very
much. Standing in the first of all,
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let me thank you for those kind
words, uh in the beginning of
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the question that that means the world
to me and and the whole idea of
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of of having one leg and becoming
a wrestler. My philosophy with that is
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either I can sit at home feel
sorry for myself, marinate and and myself
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pity or I can get off the
couch and do something. There's there's not
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much middle ground when it comes to
me. Uh. And so that that's
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what really drives me, because I
don't want to sit in that pain.
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Uh. It's you know, that
that stuff, his torture. So that's
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why I I get out and I
do things like uh like Russell or I
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speak to kids at at high schools
and in middle schools and things like that,
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and I and I produce and I
make documentaries to try to try to
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share my story, you know.
But the question about Vinca Dan it was,
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it was it was awesome working with
him, and I have to stop
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you right there. There was no
blades involved in that match at all.
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What happened was I dropped picked the
chair into his head. Uh and Vince,
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not being the incredibly experienced wrestler uh
that that he is, had the
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chair turned the wrong way, so
the edge of the chair just jams into
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the top of his head. Uh
as I kicked it into his head.
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And I remember laying there and at
first I saw a lot of bread on
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the mat and I'm trying I looked
over my body trying to figure out if
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it's coming from me. Uh.
Then I slowly look up and pitch Nick
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Man, there's the guys that are
of blood shooting out of the top of
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his head. Thank god, we're
you know, we're towards the end of
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the match at that point. But
uh, it was it was truly an
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honor to share a ring with him, because, uh, there's only a
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handful of guys that can say that, right, like cempun Cogan, uh,
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Undertaker, Flair and and and Mean
and maybe a few others. But
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you know, it's to to to
be included in that list of absolute legends.
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Is is truly an honor, and
it was. It was a hell
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of an opportunity. Uh, you
know, for a guy who has one
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leg less than a year experienced as
a professional wrestler against a fifty four year
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old non wrestler. You know,
so when you have all of those elements
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combined, I'm really proud of the
end product. And uh it goes to
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show like how much of a machine
and how great uh w W is w
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w E is at what they do. But it was an absolute pleasure.
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Thank you for the for the question. Very cool. Let's uh, let's
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go to our next call. And
uh, we'll go to New Jersey.
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Eric goes six o nine, New
Jersey. Please state your name and where
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00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:14.599
you're from. Going on with it's
what's going on? Zach Is Lewis from
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New Jerseys. Lewis, thanks for
Carlin Lewis. What have you got for
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Zach Allen today? Yeah? It
was one, So all right, now
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check it out. I have three
things now wait again, you want me
250
00:17:23.680 --> 00:17:26.039
to answer ask them all at once, I just just do one at a
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time. We got a good connection
with you, all right, sweet year,
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all right, check it out.
First of all, I want to
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actually start with John Laurenidas, Like
I don't know if you tuned into that
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recent raw where well not recent,
like a year and a half probably ago,
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where Vincic Man was basically stating that
John Laura and Iis hired the wrong
256
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one legged wrestler. But my question
is it was It's kind of like a
257
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two part question. Well, first
was your were you the right one legged
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wrestler or were you the wrong one? And also did you, like,
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00:18:00.559 --> 00:18:03.839
I mean, how did did John
Law and his kitching for that for a
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long time that you can remember the
first place? Thanks Lewis. Yeah,
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I like to think I'm the right
one legged Uh. But what happened was
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and and that's that's luke true story, John Laurer and I just hid side
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in the wrong one legged wrestler.
Uh. What happened was I had a
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00:18:19.640 --> 00:18:25.359
dark match at TNAH against Truth Martinez, the guy who trained him. And
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this match created such a buzz within
the wrestling industry, and it was the
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for the first it created so many
ways, uh, and it was the
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first time that anybody that had ever
heard of me, just just from this
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one dark match alone. W W
decided to sign me before TNA could uh
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based off of the the the absolute
uh publicity and uh off of that dark
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match. So they decided to sign
me without knowing what I look like.
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Uh. What happened was they started
making phone calls. They gave a phone
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call to Steve Current down in Florida, who actually at the time was training
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a one legged guy to be a
wrestler. His name is Steve Chamberlain.
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And Steve Chamberlain got timed thinking that
that Steve Chamberlain was me, the guy
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at c A. Because I mean, if you think about it, what
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are they honest if there's going to
be more than one one legged professional wrestler.
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But once, once, once things
got worked out and they kind of
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figured out who I was and what
I looked like, they realized they they
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wanted me instead of Steve. And
I've never met Steve, but I guess
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he's really good friends with Xboch and
I see him on Twitter all the time.
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He's got a great charity where he
donates, where he raises money and
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donates prosthetic legs and prosthetic arms the
kids who need him. And so you
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know, he's one of those guys
that you know, we need more of
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in today's world, and I'm proud
to share some at least some time and
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spaceless with him for sure. Let
me jump in. There's another one legged
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wrestler and you have not met him. I think he wasn't a wrestler for
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very long. Yeah. Yeah,
there's actually a third one, believe it
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00:20:07.599 --> 00:20:11.559
or not. And this story is
crazy because his name, his real name
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is Michael Hayes. And I'm not
talking about the free bird. His name
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is Mike Hayes. He's he was
strained by Rip Rogers down in Louisville.
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He lost his leg in an i
U D attack overseas. Uh flightding for
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our country, which you know,
he's an incredible soul of incredibly brave and
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and uh and and after the attack
happened, uh, he decided to to
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follow his dream and become a professional
wrestler. So he's doing great things down
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in Louisville too. Uh. He's
a really good friend of mine and I
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know him and hopefully we're gonna do
some business together soon, uh if we
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can, if we can, uh, you know, line up our schedules.
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Would would you rather take him with
him or wrestle him? I assume
299
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both could happen. I I think
I think both. But the idea of
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us having a match together, Uh, I think is is really intriguing because
301
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it's it's gonna be a challenge.
And that's what Uh that that's initially what
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00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:06.680
what brought me and Gregory Iron together. We're an attack team on his the
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handicap heroes and Gregory Iron suffers from
cerebral palsy and what initially brought us together
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as a few. And we had
a match, you know, So here's
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00:21:14.839 --> 00:21:18.400
the guy, uh, with limited
use of his right arm, suffers from
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cerebral palsy against the guy that's one
lake and and it's This match is actually
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00:21:22.039 --> 00:21:27.000
on the on the Finding Zach Allen
documentary and it's and it's a hell of
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00:21:27.039 --> 00:21:30.599
a match, man. It's close
to twenty minutes and it's one of my,
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00:21:30.759 --> 00:21:33.119
uh one of my most favorite matches
I've ever been a part of.
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Very Cool. Need an extra dose
of positivity in your wrestling podcasts, will
311
00:21:40.240 --> 00:21:45.039
come join me Alan fourrel Over in
the Progress Paradise at Peter Torch v I
312
00:21:45.079 --> 00:21:48.279
P as we mask on the bright
side of wrestling and focus on some of
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00:21:48.319 --> 00:21:52.279
the great matches and shows from around
the world, be it the US,
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00:21:52.519 --> 00:21:57.039
Japan, Europe or Mexico. There's
always a place for wrestlings past and the
315
00:21:57.079 --> 00:22:02.319
paradise too, and we've done fun
historical shows such as the We Love Liger
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00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:07.119
series celebrating the glorious career of Juician
Thunderliger and our eye was there when shows
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00:22:07.160 --> 00:22:11.559
where our guests will join me to
talk about a classic bout that they were
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00:22:11.559 --> 00:22:15.799
in attendance for. We love variety
and you can expect lots of it at
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320
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site. See you in the Paradise. When you said that there was another
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00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:48.880
one like a wrestler and his name
was Michael Hayes, John Lorinidis's head just
325
00:22:48.880 --> 00:22:52.119
blew up, like wait, wait, wait, how am I? How
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00:22:52.119 --> 00:22:59.160
am I gonna call this guy?
I'm gonna get Yeah. Man, As
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00:22:59.240 --> 00:23:03.640
far as I don't think he got
any or maybe I wasn't proving to that
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00:23:03.680 --> 00:23:06.920
type of information, I don't know. That's always been good to me.
329
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It was an honest It was an
honest mistake by John. He might have
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been a bit of a buffoon in
other ways, but it was an honest
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00:23:11.160 --> 00:23:15.599
mistake by John. And uh and
you know what are the odds? You
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00:23:15.640 --> 00:23:18.880
know what were the odds? So
anyway, Lewis, let's go back to
333
00:23:18.920 --> 00:23:23.400
you. Thanks for that topic.
What's next? All right? So my
334
00:23:23.480 --> 00:23:26.799
next question is I want to know, out of almost people you work with,
335
00:23:26.880 --> 00:23:33.039
like you mentioned Broc earlier, did
any any wrestlers or even McMahon himself,
336
00:23:33.039 --> 00:23:37.319
could any of them take it easy? And and then if they did
337
00:23:37.440 --> 00:23:38.920
or if they didn't like, what
was your take on that? But just
338
00:23:38.960 --> 00:23:44.400
what was your general on people taking
it easy on you the restless because they
339
00:23:44.440 --> 00:23:49.680
thought that you had one leg.
I that that's something I ran into,
340
00:23:51.079 --> 00:23:56.039
uh at first in my career,
where I would have guys deliberately think there
341
00:23:56.039 --> 00:24:00.319
were at tenantis about being in the
ring with me, because yeah, you
342
00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:03.200
have to understand, this has never
been done before. There's never been a
343
00:24:03.240 --> 00:24:06.599
one legged wrestler in the history of
the world. Uh. And so guys
344
00:24:06.680 --> 00:24:10.960
at first didn't really know how to
uh how to work with me, and
345
00:24:11.000 --> 00:24:14.519
I didn't know how to work either
because he was just starting out. But
346
00:24:15.559 --> 00:24:21.599
after a while, guys got used
to me because because I kept coming back,
347
00:24:22.279 --> 00:24:26.799
I didn't complain much and and and
I showed initiative, and you know,
348
00:24:26.839 --> 00:24:30.119
I wanted to get better, and
I showed that I was I wanted
349
00:24:30.160 --> 00:24:33.400
to be around the long hom uh
And I think guys respected that for the
350
00:24:33.440 --> 00:24:37.920
most part. But but but usually
that was something that I typically found early
351
00:24:37.960 --> 00:24:44.720
on in my career, not so
much anymore. Okay, all right,
352
00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:49.680
so now my last question is before
that match with Land, did you kind
353
00:24:49.680 --> 00:24:53.440
of feel like things got less a
little like two out with all his I
354
00:24:53.440 --> 00:24:56.680
mean, I understand with storyline and
it was all creative and one, but
355
00:24:56.759 --> 00:25:00.759
did you kind of sometimes feel that
you kind of pushed abound Is too much?
356
00:25:00.039 --> 00:25:06.480
And in that match, did you
guys have have like a like basically
357
00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:10.559
you guys have to rehearse that match
like fifty thousand times And that's my last
358
00:25:10.599 --> 00:25:15.400
question questions. Yeah, very good. We we thank you Lewis for the
359
00:25:15.440 --> 00:25:18.799
phone call. We we had to
go over a lot of times, more
360
00:25:18.839 --> 00:25:22.279
so than than than most matches because
at the time, again, do you
361
00:25:22.319 --> 00:25:26.000
have a guy with one leg who
has been wrestling less of the year and
362
00:25:26.039 --> 00:25:29.720
you have a guy who's fifty four
years old, the CEO of the company
363
00:25:29.759 --> 00:25:32.720
who was not a wrestler. So
we we had a number of producers,
364
00:25:33.119 --> 00:25:37.039
uh in the match helping us out. And it was it was it was
365
00:25:37.119 --> 00:25:41.599
it was well ingrained in our brains
and the referees brains and the agents behind
366
00:25:41.640 --> 00:25:45.319
the MIC's brains. So uh so
it was it was very controlled environments.
367
00:25:45.400 --> 00:25:49.160
But I wasn't nervous and in that
aspect of the match. But uh,
368
00:25:51.279 --> 00:25:53.799
but like I said, it was
an amazing opportunity and uh, Uh,
369
00:25:53.880 --> 00:25:59.079
you know, I I'm forgetting with
the first part of the question much Lewis.
370
00:25:59.079 --> 00:26:03.279
I'm sorry, So let me bring
it back to uh fill in what
371
00:26:03.279 --> 00:26:07.759
what we didn't get? Yeah?
No, Also about the first part of
372
00:26:07.759 --> 00:26:10.720
the question, was I just want
to know it even though it was obviously
373
00:26:10.759 --> 00:26:14.039
written all the promos and everything was
in the story line. Oh yeah,
374
00:26:14.079 --> 00:26:18.920
I feel like sometimes fucking yeah with
too much at times. Yeah, that's
375
00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:22.319
a very good question. And I
at the time, I didn't feel that
376
00:26:22.359 --> 00:26:25.240
way because I was I think I
was young and tom and I was kind
377
00:26:25.240 --> 00:26:26.759
of like happy to be there and
I didn't really know how to stand up
378
00:26:26.759 --> 00:26:32.079
for myself or state or say no
because as a as a nineteen year old
379
00:26:32.319 --> 00:26:37.240
uh Mark more more or less you
know who grew up watching WWE. When
380
00:26:37.279 --> 00:26:41.079
when Vincent Man comes to you himself
and he says, hey, we want
381
00:26:41.119 --> 00:26:42.440
to do this angle, will you
do this, this and that and we're
382
00:26:42.440 --> 00:26:45.319
gonna do this, Matt, how
do you say no to that? You
383
00:26:45.319 --> 00:26:51.519
know, looking back, I'm not
I wouldn't be I'll put it this way,
384
00:26:52.240 --> 00:26:55.960
I wouldn't be comfortable with doing half
the stuff that we did back then
385
00:26:56.079 --> 00:27:02.200
now and I'll just I'll just leave
it at that interesting. Yeah, a
386
00:27:02.240 --> 00:27:03.119
lot of followup questions I could ask
on that one, but I want to
387
00:27:03.119 --> 00:27:06.599
get this one in. When you
talk about having to rehearse extra ATTHISIC man,
388
00:27:06.839 --> 00:27:11.680
how much extra practice did wrestlers who
face you then and now on the
389
00:27:11.680 --> 00:27:15.839
indie scene and in w w E. How much extra practice if it's somebody
390
00:27:15.839 --> 00:27:19.240
you haven't worked with before, do
you guys go through. I have your
391
00:27:19.319 --> 00:27:22.319
match with Matt Hardy on in the
background right now on w w E Network,
392
00:27:23.640 --> 00:27:26.799
and I'm watching and I'm just seeing, you know, keeping an eye
393
00:27:26.799 --> 00:27:29.519
on the moves and and the adjustments
that are made, and you know,
394
00:27:29.519 --> 00:27:32.480
refreshing my memory on on this match
in particular when I've watched some other ones
395
00:27:32.519 --> 00:27:37.559
today. How how how much extra
nervousness and practice do your opponents go through
396
00:27:37.559 --> 00:27:38.519
to kind of get used to how
they have to change things? And I
397
00:27:38.519 --> 00:27:41.519
know one of the big things is, you know, we've heard it in
398
00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:44.880
the documentary, you're top heavy,
because you know, a legs is a
399
00:27:44.880 --> 00:27:48.200
substantial part of somebody's weight and balance
and center of gravity, and that that
400
00:27:48.279 --> 00:27:49.680
alone, just to keep you safe
is a big factor when it comes to
401
00:27:49.680 --> 00:27:55.279
how how people cloth on you.
Yeah, there's I think I think we
402
00:27:55.400 --> 00:27:57.720
might I think we talked about in
documentary too. There's there's a there's a
403
00:27:57.759 --> 00:28:03.480
match or Shelton management those lines speed
and he and he's such a large man
404
00:28:03.799 --> 00:28:07.839
and he's so athletic, and he's
so strong and he's fast. Dude,
405
00:28:07.839 --> 00:28:11.240
He's an incredible athlete. He hit
me so hard and I had no choice
406
00:28:11.240 --> 00:28:15.279
at the land on top of my
head. And I was pissed about it
407
00:28:15.319 --> 00:28:19.559
because I felt that he was unsafe. Uh But but but but then,
408
00:28:19.599 --> 00:28:22.680
if you think about it, you
have to realize that this again, this
409
00:28:22.759 --> 00:28:26.799
is brand new, never been done
before, right, so there's going to
410
00:28:26.880 --> 00:28:30.039
be a trial period. And unfortunately
or fortunately, depending how you look at
411
00:28:30.039 --> 00:28:37.039
my story, my trial period was
in front of uh five billion people every
412
00:28:37.119 --> 00:28:42.359
every week on on SmackDown. But
now I I've honed my act and I
413
00:28:44.039 --> 00:28:49.839
think that I'm I've developed a certain
style and uh I I I've rustled.
414
00:28:49.839 --> 00:28:52.960
I've been wrestling for so long that
I've kind of that. I that I
415
00:28:53.000 --> 00:28:57.039
can be put in any situation.
And I say this with with absolutely no
416
00:28:57.240 --> 00:29:02.680
uh cockiness or anything like that.
But I can be put in any situation
417
00:29:02.839 --> 00:29:07.400
with pretty much any wrestler. That's
that's uh competent, and I we've can
418
00:29:07.440 --> 00:29:11.920
produce a good match, uh,
based solely on how well I know myself,
419
00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:15.000
how well I know my act,
I know what I can do,
420
00:29:15.119 --> 00:29:18.079
and I know what what we'll get
what type of action in front of different
421
00:29:18.079 --> 00:29:22.160
types of crowd, and you know
what, that only comes with experience and
422
00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:26.480
and a lot of wrestlers can say
that too, you know. It's just
423
00:29:26.559 --> 00:29:30.200
it's not mutually, that's not what's
not exclusive just to just me. Uh,
424
00:29:30.359 --> 00:29:36.960
but uh, the wall that five
seconds ago, you just the sound
425
00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:38.839
quality just went weigh down on your
phone just if you could. I'm sorry,
426
00:29:41.680 --> 00:29:45.440
I blame it out Toledo, the
garbage dump of America. Oh no,
427
00:29:45.480 --> 00:29:48.880
I'm just jokey. I'm joking.
I love Palito. But but yeah,
428
00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:53.799
So my my point was there,
there's a trial and error period periods
429
00:29:53.839 --> 00:29:59.720
for me, uh, becoming a
wrestler. My period happen to be in
430
00:29:59.720 --> 00:30:03.480
front of everybody, and uh and
and and and so for me to get
431
00:30:03.519 --> 00:30:07.640
to this point, I had to
have a lot of experience, you know,
432
00:30:07.839 --> 00:30:11.039
and in wrestling, the wrestling for
twelve years, you know. Well,
433
00:30:11.119 --> 00:30:14.079
but that's definitely the trial and there
and and lots of air. But
434
00:30:14.079 --> 00:30:17.200
but now it's now, we're now, we're good to go. How about
435
00:30:17.240 --> 00:30:21.359
in terms of the other opponents though, often are they just nervous and and
436
00:30:21.359 --> 00:30:23.279
and do they want to work stuff
out and go through moves at at time?
437
00:30:23.359 --> 00:30:26.839
Like I was backstage in Anity Show
once and aj Styles was demonstrating to
438
00:30:26.880 --> 00:30:30.960
his opponent, who had never wrestled
before the Styles clash, and I got
439
00:30:30.960 --> 00:30:33.000
to you know, I just watched
him and he's like, no, you
440
00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:33.960
got to do this, you gotta
do this. Be sure not to you
441
00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:37.319
know, do what you normally do
with your head. You gotta I gotta
442
00:30:37.319 --> 00:30:40.160
tuck it forward not back. All
that stuff. How much of that goes
443
00:30:40.160 --> 00:30:41.319
on with you? Or is it
not really important? Can you just walk
444
00:30:41.319 --> 00:30:45.799
into the ring and practically, and
I know this doesn't happen, but literally
445
00:30:45.839 --> 00:30:48.720
surprised as somewhat experienced wrestler by your
his opponent, and you can actually just
446
00:30:48.759 --> 00:30:52.440
work a match out on the fly
without them needing to know much of anything.
447
00:30:52.240 --> 00:30:55.880
I could. I could definitely work
a match on them fly without without
448
00:30:55.920 --> 00:30:59.119
them knowing much as anything. However, the quality of the match you wouldn't
449
00:30:59.119 --> 00:31:03.440
be as good as as me talking
to them beforehand, and yeah, and
450
00:31:03.599 --> 00:31:06.920
we can. I mean that that
applies to everybody. We can. We
451
00:31:07.000 --> 00:31:10.359
can have a whole hour long conversation
about guys to say, you know,
452
00:31:10.480 --> 00:31:11.720
call it in the ring. Can
You're not a worker unless you can call
453
00:31:11.720 --> 00:31:14.160
it the ring. Well, you
know what, I can call it the
454
00:31:14.240 --> 00:31:17.279
rings the sixty minutes. However,
it's gonna it's gonna suck, you know.
455
00:31:17.839 --> 00:31:21.279
But but but yeah, a lot
of doubt. The hawks explain,
456
00:31:21.440 --> 00:31:25.799
you know, exactly how I move
and what's gonna happen. And that's that's
457
00:31:25.799 --> 00:31:30.079
more for my safety in their safety
too, h because I take great pride
458
00:31:30.079 --> 00:31:33.720
and keeping everybody safe, including myself, as well as the timing, because
459
00:31:33.759 --> 00:31:37.039
the timing is a little bit different
with me, you know, the way
460
00:31:37.079 --> 00:31:41.920
I move and and things like that. So usually there's there's a thirty second
461
00:31:41.559 --> 00:31:45.200
adjustment period in the beginning of a
match, and then guys, he's right
462
00:31:45.240 --> 00:31:48.160
into it and it's it's a night
off for most guys. The rest of
463
00:31:48.200 --> 00:31:52.799
us. Me. Yeah, gotcha. That makes sense if you're just joining
464
00:31:52.839 --> 00:31:55.640
us mid stream here on our show. This is the PW Torch Live Cast
465
00:31:55.759 --> 00:32:00.759
Interview Friday on April fourth, twenty
fourteen, on the eve of WRESTLINGI a
466
00:32:00.799 --> 00:32:05.839
weekend here and my guest on today's
show is Zach Gowan No one for good
467
00:32:05.880 --> 00:32:08.920
reason as a one legged wrestler,
A got a try out in TNA,
468
00:32:09.160 --> 00:32:14.200
got offered a contract on the spot, waited a couple of days just in
469
00:32:14.319 --> 00:32:19.680
case, and w W came calling
and he worked for them. And how
470
00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:22.200
many months total was at Zach?
It was most of two thousand and three
471
00:32:22.240 --> 00:32:25.279
and a little in two thousand and
four. Yeah, I think I really
472
00:32:25.400 --> 00:32:29.960
is that. I was only in
TDA for six months. I think I
473
00:32:30.039 --> 00:32:36.359
debuted in May of V three and
my last match was October of O three.
474
00:32:36.480 --> 00:32:40.519
So okay, and then and then
you were you Your contract wasn't nullified
475
00:32:42.279 --> 00:32:45.599
or whatever it was. I guess
just you weren't fired in essence. Wait
476
00:32:45.920 --> 00:32:52.440
fired brother, Yeah, well it
terminated the contract that makes it. Yeah,
477
00:32:52.480 --> 00:32:54.079
so that's being fired in two thousand, but that was early in two
478
00:32:54.079 --> 00:32:58.720
thousan furtwo But yeah, okay,
very very good. We're we're going to
479
00:32:58.759 --> 00:33:00.240
get into some of that phone number
tho if you want to call and talk
480
00:33:00.279 --> 00:33:06.920
to Zach Gowen is six four six
seven two one nine eight two eight again
481
00:33:07.160 --> 00:33:10.000
six four six seven two one nine
A two eight a reminder that will be
482
00:33:10.039 --> 00:33:14.839
here live a half hour after WrestleMania
ends. On Sunday night, James called
483
00:33:14.880 --> 00:33:17.160
well Greg Parks hosting a live call
in show. You can listen live at
484
00:33:17.160 --> 00:33:22.519
PW torchlivecast dot com or call to
join the show at six four six seven
485
00:33:23.359 --> 00:33:29.720
nine two eight. You can support
us on Patreon and get these shows with
486
00:33:29.839 --> 00:33:32.200
ads and plugs remove, the weight
Keller Prosing podcast, Weight Keller Prosing post
487
00:33:32.240 --> 00:33:37.720
shows and the PW Torch Daily Cast
throughout the week with ads and plugs remove,
488
00:33:37.799 --> 00:33:42.160
plus a few bonus VIP shows throughout
the month for just four dollars and
489
00:33:42.240 --> 00:33:45.599
ninety nine cents a month. Check
it out patreon dot com slash PW torch
490
00:33:45.799 --> 00:33:51.960
vip. That's patreon dot com slash
pw torch vip and you can also upgrade
491
00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:59.839
to other tiers and receive even more
benefits through Patreon. Let's go back to
492
00:33:59.880 --> 00:34:02.720
the bow line and go to South
Carolina. Eight six four. Please state
493
00:34:02.759 --> 00:34:07.280
your name in the city you're calling
from. Hi, this is Charles Smitton
494
00:34:07.360 --> 00:34:12.519
from Staby, South Carolina. How
you doing? I do? Give us
495
00:34:12.519 --> 00:34:16.880
your name one more time? Oh, Charles Sitton, Charles Great thanks for
496
00:34:16.920 --> 00:34:21.960
Colin. Yeah, what have you
got protected a well? Will? It
497
00:34:22.039 --> 00:34:25.840
took my question? I was gonna
ask about the about his experiences with Nickmahn
498
00:34:25.840 --> 00:34:30.159
because I was just watching on the
ww network at the arm wrestling contest.
499
00:34:30.199 --> 00:34:37.880
Was like, that's pretty bad,
but let me think of something. Okay,
500
00:34:37.559 --> 00:34:42.639
real quickly. I know how I
boiling back from a documentary, But
501
00:34:43.760 --> 00:34:47.239
when you became a wrestler when he
was not becoming a wrestler, what was
502
00:34:47.360 --> 00:34:52.679
that at one point in your life
where you said like, Hey, I
503
00:34:52.800 --> 00:34:59.480
think I can really do this?
Was the question was when when I decided
504
00:34:59.719 --> 00:35:02.920
Yeah, where what that point was
where I decided like or I found out
505
00:35:02.960 --> 00:35:06.719
that this is what I'm going to
do? Right? When did you think
506
00:35:06.760 --> 00:35:07.880
you would be able to do it? I mean you you were, I
507
00:35:07.880 --> 00:35:10.320
want to say, for context and
the documentary covers this, you were a
508
00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:14.599
really good natural athlete as a kid. A lot of things seem naturally to
509
00:35:14.719 --> 00:35:17.679
you, and and that is incredibly
apparent in your wrestling style and what you
510
00:35:17.719 --> 00:35:22.199
were able to do. Not just
anybody, needless to say, with who
511
00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:25.639
lost a leg as a child would
be able to become a professional wrestler and
512
00:35:27.079 --> 00:35:30.679
do anything close to what you're able
to do so that natural athletic ability is
513
00:35:30.719 --> 00:35:35.599
something you knew you had. And
but when did you When did you realize?
514
00:35:35.599 --> 00:35:37.960
And that I think this because the
heart of what Charles is asking when
515
00:35:37.960 --> 00:35:39.639
did you realize I can actually pull
this off? And I know in the
516
00:35:39.639 --> 00:35:44.519
documentary you said you didn't really get
into wrestling imagining you would go to ww
517
00:35:44.880 --> 00:35:46.960
wwf fore you just kind of thought, you know, I want to try
518
00:35:47.000 --> 00:35:50.440
this. I want to do this
on the indie scene and and just experience
519
00:35:50.480 --> 00:35:54.559
it. Right. The whole idea
for me to become as a professional wrestler,
520
00:35:54.840 --> 00:36:01.480
I had no illusions or dreams I'm
being a ww superstar or a TNA
521
00:36:01.599 --> 00:36:05.800
superstar for that matter. With the
goal was for me to be a high
522
00:36:05.800 --> 00:36:09.920
school math teacher and then Russell on
the weekend. And really it's so funny.
523
00:36:10.119 --> 00:36:14.840
I was. I used to be
eighteen years old at Eastern Michigan University,
524
00:36:14.920 --> 00:36:16.199
and I would have like kind of
like a fantasy or a thought,
525
00:36:17.159 --> 00:36:20.960
you know, when I become a
wrestler, I can't wait. I can't
526
00:36:20.960 --> 00:36:24.639
wait to wrestle Staboo Like that was
the wrestling Staboo with my with my first
527
00:36:25.360 --> 00:36:29.599
goal and pretty much my only goal
I ever had as a as a professional
528
00:36:29.639 --> 00:36:34.079
wrestler, and it's funny, it's
never happened yet, so but everything else
529
00:36:34.119 --> 00:36:37.079
has. But I never thought I
could be a WW wrestler based solely on
530
00:36:37.119 --> 00:36:40.679
my size, and I didn't think
that WW would be interested at all in
531
00:36:40.719 --> 00:36:46.320
a professional wrestler like me. But
that moment where I knew that we might
532
00:36:46.360 --> 00:36:51.880
be onto something was that dark match
I had with CNA, when you know,
533
00:36:51.920 --> 00:36:55.239
in front of fifteen hundred people,
you know, standing it at at
534
00:36:55.239 --> 00:37:00.360
one time, just cheering their heads
off. That that gave me a such
535
00:37:00.360 --> 00:37:05.320
a euphoria, and that really planted
the season, like, oh, shoot,
536
00:37:05.360 --> 00:37:07.559
man, we may be onto something
here, because before that I was
537
00:37:07.559 --> 00:37:10.880
only wrestling in front of twenty or
thirty people and they were giving me luke
538
00:37:10.920 --> 00:37:15.119
warm reactions at that. But for
some reason, he put me in front
539
00:37:15.159 --> 00:37:17.760
of a big crowd like that and
I had the match I had with Truth
540
00:37:17.800 --> 00:37:23.920
and it was just an absolutely amazing
feeling. And that was really the genesis
541
00:37:23.639 --> 00:37:28.679
of the idea of me doing something
as a career, you know, career
542
00:37:28.719 --> 00:37:34.079
wise with wrestling. I have to
say the Truth Martini is a co MVP
543
00:37:34.239 --> 00:37:37.159
of that documentary. He is a
big part of it, and I just
544
00:37:37.199 --> 00:37:40.599
got a kick out of the way
he talks and the way he tells stories.
545
00:37:40.880 --> 00:37:45.880
And he really really was an asset
to that documentary and it really I
546
00:37:45.960 --> 00:37:49.519
think he really added to it.
I suspect you feel the same way.
547
00:37:50.239 --> 00:37:53.000
Absolutely. Truth has been still by
my side since Stay one and he's such
548
00:37:53.000 --> 00:37:59.440
an amazing talent and I love it
now that, like we in Detroit,
549
00:37:59.480 --> 00:38:02.280
we've known that Truth has been next
level for a very very long time,
550
00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:07.880
long before Likeake Me or Alex Shelly
or different the short guys blew up,
551
00:38:07.960 --> 00:38:12.880
you know, and he just never
caught that break until recently with the with
552
00:38:12.920 --> 00:38:15.079
the Spring of Honor run, which
is was you know, in my estimation
553
00:38:15.199 --> 00:38:19.000
for when I from when I see
the best part of bringing honor every week.
554
00:38:19.639 --> 00:38:22.559
So he's truly an asset, and
I'm glad that people know who he
555
00:38:22.679 --> 00:38:28.320
is now and are kind of recognizing
how good he is. Give a list
556
00:38:28.360 --> 00:38:30.480
of the of the names, you
can probably rattle him off quicker than I
557
00:38:30.480 --> 00:38:31.960
can, even though I just watched
it last night. Of everybody who makes
558
00:38:31.960 --> 00:38:37.400
an appearance in the documentary, Paul
London and on and on. Yeah,
559
00:38:37.440 --> 00:38:42.880
we have Paul loved and Jimmy corderis
Ryan know, Jimmy Jacob's truth, Gregory
560
00:38:42.960 --> 00:38:49.840
Iron, my mom's in there.
We have just anybody that at different stages
561
00:38:49.880 --> 00:38:53.199
of my life has had an impactful
role or that could add to the to
562
00:38:53.280 --> 00:38:57.880
the story, you know, which
is interesting for me because it was some
563
00:38:57.920 --> 00:39:01.199
of those interviews were hard hard to
watch for me because you know, it
564
00:39:01.280 --> 00:39:05.280
was with Paul London talking about,
you know, how much heat I had
565
00:39:05.480 --> 00:39:08.719
in WWE at the time and and
so so watching that raw footage, it
566
00:39:08.760 --> 00:39:12.400
was it was it kind of brought
me back to that place, you know.
567
00:39:12.440 --> 00:39:14.559
Al we talked about it at the
top of the hour, you know,
568
00:39:14.639 --> 00:39:20.239
reading the PW torch every week about
how how everybody hates me and and
569
00:39:20.280 --> 00:39:22.519
Paul kind of, you know,
reaffirms that, you know, so it
570
00:39:22.880 --> 00:39:24.559
kind of takes me back to that
place. But uh, you know,
571
00:39:24.800 --> 00:39:29.360
for the story's sake, I'm so
glad that it's in there, and I
572
00:39:29.400 --> 00:39:31.320
can look at my life now and
see how much I've moved past that part,
573
00:39:31.840 --> 00:39:36.119
which makes me, you know,
super grateful. That's really clear.
574
00:39:36.119 --> 00:39:39.079
And I did feel watching the documentary
and seeing all the comments online from wrestlers,
575
00:39:39.079 --> 00:39:43.519
it was kind of validated the Torch
reporting at the time. But I'm
576
00:39:43.519 --> 00:39:47.920
curious because we were the only ones
really on your case hard during your since
577
00:39:47.960 --> 00:39:52.800
there and and I mean I was
looking back at some of the stuff and
578
00:39:52.440 --> 00:39:55.840
it was like, you know,
the level of disdain people had for you,
579
00:39:55.920 --> 00:39:59.440
And in part of you know,
there's different levels of it, and
580
00:39:59.519 --> 00:40:01.360
it's explored in the documentary, it's
explored in the back issues of the Torch
581
00:40:01.440 --> 00:40:05.400
Newsletter. Part part of it was
just, well, if I have to
582
00:40:05.400 --> 00:40:07.840
sell for this guy's on one leg, it makes me look bad, you
583
00:40:07.840 --> 00:40:09.320
know, And and okay, fair
enough, you know that you cannot you
584
00:40:09.360 --> 00:40:13.960
can at least understand somebody having that
that add to but that's that's a debatable
585
00:40:13.960 --> 00:40:16.800
point. Doesn't really affect you in
the sense that you could help it.
586
00:40:17.000 --> 00:40:22.800
But the other category of criticism was
your immaturity. And you know, the
587
00:40:22.800 --> 00:40:25.360
the the story was it Paul London
who told the story about how you acted
588
00:40:25.360 --> 00:40:30.440
around Brian Kendrick and so master your
autograph and you and you know, just
589
00:40:30.480 --> 00:40:31.960
for people, I've seen the documentary
and this is why this is really compelling
590
00:40:32.039 --> 00:40:35.400
viewing. I'm trying to sell the
documentary here to people because I do think
591
00:40:35.400 --> 00:40:38.920
it's it's really really interesting two hours, you know, Paul London telling the
592
00:40:38.920 --> 00:40:44.800
story once you'll use Zach and and
Brian Kendrick are out in public and somebody
593
00:40:44.800 --> 00:40:46.199
comes up to you and ask your
autographs, and you and this kind of
594
00:40:46.920 --> 00:40:49.960
I don't know how to I didn't, I wasn't there, but kind of
595
00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:53.480
this immature, sarcastic waygls, why
don't you want mister Kendrick's autograph? He's
596
00:40:53.519 --> 00:40:58.440
standing right here. And I think
Paul London shows that story because it was
597
00:40:58.440 --> 00:41:01.920
an It was a a don't that
showed that things had kind of gone to
598
00:41:01.960 --> 00:41:06.679
your head, or that you weren't
handling the fame and the attention in the
599
00:41:06.719 --> 00:41:08.239
way that you would now as a
thirty one year old having lived life a
600
00:41:08.239 --> 00:41:13.159
little bit more and more prepared for
that. But we're looking looking back,
601
00:41:13.639 --> 00:41:15.960
so many questions we ask, but
this specific one when you did the interview
602
00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:20.960
for the documentary, was that before
after you saw the other interviews on the
603
00:41:20.960 --> 00:41:23.440
document was before I was I was
the first one to do the interview,
604
00:41:23.840 --> 00:41:28.840
uh, and then when everyone else
did their interviews, I was not in
605
00:41:28.840 --> 00:41:31.039
the room for that because the one
in an honest we want an honest approach
606
00:41:31.119 --> 00:41:35.400
to their answers. And that's that's
what I wanted to get because I got
607
00:41:35.400 --> 00:41:40.280
the sense from watching your interview that
you really are open about about your immaturity
608
00:41:40.320 --> 00:41:45.079
and your shortcomings and your mistakes during
your short run in WWE. But I
609
00:41:45.119 --> 00:41:51.519
got the sense that your friends,
uh in colleagues who were interviewed were willing
610
00:41:51.559 --> 00:41:57.039
to go even further talking about how
how despised you were and how the miss
611
00:41:57.079 --> 00:42:00.159
how you you made mistakes that were
just you know, crushing to them as
612
00:42:00.199 --> 00:42:04.039
your friend or you know, rooting
for you. So when you were watching
613
00:42:04.039 --> 00:42:07.599
those back you kind of mentioned it, but did you actually learn about how
614
00:42:07.840 --> 00:42:13.199
Like did you go, Wow,
the torch was right, Like I was
615
00:42:13.239 --> 00:42:16.320
a lot more hated than I realized
even until watching these interviews. Yeah,
616
00:42:16.639 --> 00:42:22.079
no, I I I was well
aware of this, of the disdain that
617
00:42:22.079 --> 00:42:25.920
that that that locker room had for
me. I was. I was well
618
00:42:25.960 --> 00:42:30.320
aware, and for me, it
was it was so confusing because that was
619
00:42:30.360 --> 00:42:35.559
the absolute last thing I wanted.
I I didn't have an ego. The
620
00:42:35.639 --> 00:42:39.119
problem was my self esteem was so
low and I felt so ugly and I
621
00:42:39.119 --> 00:42:45.719
felt like I didn't belong that I
overcompensated for that, uh and and and
622
00:42:45.719 --> 00:42:49.559
and and behaviors that came off in
a way where people would would would see
623
00:42:49.599 --> 00:42:52.519
and they would grow their eyes or
they would or it would just wouldn't be
624
00:42:52.559 --> 00:42:55.400
appropriate, you know. And I
didn't. And it was started as a
625
00:42:55.400 --> 00:42:59.280
snowball that that was rolling down the
hill, and it became something that I
626
00:42:59.320 --> 00:43:02.159
lost completely control of. You know, I was completely lost because at that
627
00:43:02.320 --> 00:43:08.599
time, Wade I was nineteen years
old with emotional immaturity problems, and I
628
00:43:08.679 --> 00:43:14.000
could not accept that gift that was
being handed to me. I just couldn't
629
00:43:14.000 --> 00:43:16.559
accept it because one, I wasn't
mature enough to accept it. In two,
630
00:43:17.519 --> 00:43:22.559
to that point, I had not
worked hard enough to achieve that level
631
00:43:22.679 --> 00:43:30.400
of success within the wrestling business.
Do you remember when Hulk Hogan shocked the
632
00:43:30.400 --> 00:43:35.559
world and formed the New World Order? Or when Stone Cold Steve Austin passed
633
00:43:35.559 --> 00:43:38.920
down on the Sharpshooter to break the
hit Man heard. I'm Torch contributor Frank
634
00:43:38.920 --> 00:43:45.599
petty Ani and I reviewed these shows
and many more for my exclusive VIP podcast,
635
00:43:45.679 --> 00:43:49.519
Pro Wrestling Than and Now. Together
with a rotating chair of co hosts,
636
00:43:49.760 --> 00:43:52.880
we go back ten, twenty even
thirty years review pay per views from
637
00:43:52.920 --> 00:43:58.000
top to bottom talk about where the
wrestlers were at the time and compare what
638
00:43:58.119 --> 00:44:01.119
took place then to what is taking
place now. You get exclusive access to
639
00:44:01.199 --> 00:44:07.239
these and other podcasts as part of
your pw Torch VIP membership, which is
640
00:44:07.239 --> 00:44:12.400
compatible with the Apple Podcasts app.
Visit pwtorch dot com slash go vip for
641
00:44:12.519 --> 00:44:24.280
details and sign up for Yeah,
I do you think Now this is kind
642
00:44:24.280 --> 00:44:28.559
of a big question, and I
know you said you'd be pretty much happy
643
00:44:28.559 --> 00:44:32.199
if you wanted to or if it
came to that doing speaking engagements and working
644
00:44:32.280 --> 00:44:37.719
the indie scene. Do you think
that if the bridge is burned or do
645
00:44:37.760 --> 00:44:42.360
you have any desire to have another
run in WWE assuming that you could,
646
00:44:43.519 --> 00:44:45.000
you feel comfortable with how you were
being booked, because I know there's you
647
00:44:45.000 --> 00:44:47.519
know, a real particular way to
book you in a really in a lot
648
00:44:47.519 --> 00:44:52.920
of bad ways to book you.
Yeah, absolutely, there's no that bridge
649
00:44:52.960 --> 00:45:00.760
is not burned. They I have
I have friends there in the office that
650
00:45:00.800 --> 00:45:04.280
I have. I have friends down
south as well that I keep in regular
651
00:45:04.320 --> 00:45:07.440
contact. But but uh, and
I'm so grateful and my family is grateful
652
00:45:07.480 --> 00:45:12.599
too to w w E because they
paid for my my rehab uh, you
653
00:45:12.639 --> 00:45:15.119
know over four years ago, which
which ultimately saved my life and allows me
654
00:45:15.199 --> 00:45:17.760
to have a family, allows me
to have a career, you know.
655
00:45:17.880 --> 00:45:22.480
So there's no way I could ever
repay that uh to w w E.
656
00:45:22.760 --> 00:45:25.159
But as far as as working for
those guys again, I'm I'm absolutely open
657
00:45:25.199 --> 00:45:30.599
to any any business uh propositions or
ideas anything like that, as long as
658
00:45:30.639 --> 00:45:37.519
you know that the terms are correct
and uh and and I feel spiritually uh
659
00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:40.880
good with what's going to happen,
you know. So so if they were
660
00:45:40.920 --> 00:45:44.519
to come to me and try to
work something out, it would have you
661
00:45:44.519 --> 00:45:46.079
know, I would have to go
through my channels, you know, my
662
00:45:46.199 --> 00:45:50.480
family, uh, my support,
and I would have to pray on it,
663
00:45:50.519 --> 00:45:52.559
and I would have to do you
know a number of I would have
664
00:45:52.559 --> 00:45:57.400
to take a number of actions to
to be okay with it, because honestly,
665
00:45:58.159 --> 00:46:00.119
it's not all that it's built to
be, you know, being a
666
00:46:00.199 --> 00:46:07.199
WWE superstar. I really enjoy my
life now. I enjoy not being recognized
667
00:46:07.239 --> 00:46:10.639
out in public. I enjoy being
my own boss. I enjoy kind of
668
00:46:10.679 --> 00:46:15.480
like picking and choosing what work I
do and being you know, one hundred
669
00:46:15.480 --> 00:46:19.760
percent in charge and creative of what
goes on with that. The trade off
670
00:46:19.880 --> 00:46:22.239
is I don't get paid as much
as I would if I was a ww
671
00:46:22.400 --> 00:46:25.840
superstar, you know. But but
beyond that, man, I'm open to
672
00:46:25.880 --> 00:46:31.760
anything. And I think we could
produce some very very compelling television with war
673
00:46:31.880 --> 00:46:36.639
on that now physically, mentally and
spiritually, I think we could do some
674
00:46:36.719 --> 00:46:40.199
amazing things on WWTV with with their
production and that machine behind behind me.
675
00:46:42.119 --> 00:46:45.280
It would be you know, it
would be absolutely incredible. Well, you've
676
00:46:45.280 --> 00:46:47.400
still got a T and A out
there, and perhaps Monday, if Jeff
677
00:46:47.480 --> 00:46:52.719
Jarrett makes the big announcement as expected
about you know, the status of what
678
00:46:52.760 --> 00:46:54.440
project he's involved in. There maybe
other places to go to that aren't the
679
00:46:54.559 --> 00:46:59.960
full on WWE lifestyle, you know, shift where you could still be your
680
00:47:00.199 --> 00:47:02.119
boss, but but do something special
somewhere else and make a little extra money
681
00:47:02.119 --> 00:47:06.519
and start to get recognized on the
streets again. For better for worse,
682
00:47:06.599 --> 00:47:09.360
for better for worse for better for
worse, Yeah, that's a very good.
683
00:47:09.880 --> 00:47:14.320
Yeah. If you've joined the Show
in Progress live, Zach Gowan is
684
00:47:14.360 --> 00:47:16.320
my guest here on Interview Friday.
If you didn't listen last week, I
685
00:47:16.440 --> 00:47:22.400
flipped days with James Caldwell and hosted
interview Friday on Thursday, and my guest
686
00:47:22.519 --> 00:47:24.559
was Scott Hall, who will be
inducted in the WWE Hall of Fame this
687
00:47:24.599 --> 00:47:29.840
weekend. And sponsored mentions and all
of that. We edit those out for
688
00:47:29.920 --> 00:47:32.400
VIP members and that is something I
know our VFP members have really appreciated.
689
00:47:32.679 --> 00:47:35.920
Zach. Thank you for sticking around. We've got more time with you,
690
00:47:36.119 --> 00:47:38.760
but I had to get our business
out of the way there. One example,
691
00:47:38.800 --> 00:47:40.320
by the way we're talking to you, if people want to go back
692
00:47:40.320 --> 00:47:43.280
and read how hard we were on
you. We're laughing about it now,
693
00:47:43.320 --> 00:47:46.880
of course, because your story's remarkable
and you're you've land it in such a
694
00:47:46.880 --> 00:47:52.800
great place. But we have details
online of your stint with DWE. We
695
00:47:52.840 --> 00:47:58.119
had a quote from one WWE insider
who said, Zackson immature kid, but
696
00:47:58.199 --> 00:48:00.360
not a bad kid. And that's
something ON heard a lot from people,
697
00:48:00.480 --> 00:48:04.800
is we just think he's in over
his head. Like you say that,
698
00:48:04.920 --> 00:48:07.280
you're kind of insecure. You weren't
sure how to handle it. I think
699
00:48:07.320 --> 00:48:09.639
to some degree you've you've explained you
weren't even aware of how much heat you
700
00:48:09.679 --> 00:48:14.079
had on you. But I do
think it comes across really clearly in the
701
00:48:14.119 --> 00:48:17.360
documentary that no matter how over your
head you were, whatever was affecting you,
702
00:48:17.360 --> 00:48:20.679
you're not a bad guy, you
know, like that, that's that's
703
00:48:20.760 --> 00:48:22.440
that's the case with some rosters who
get bad reps. And even when you
704
00:48:22.480 --> 00:48:27.239
were at your worst in WWE,
I didn't hear from people who thought,
705
00:48:27.280 --> 00:48:30.400
you know, this guy is just
gonna end up an awful person in the
706
00:48:30.440 --> 00:48:32.880
long run, even if he's not
in wdw F. Yeah, absolutely,
707
00:48:32.920 --> 00:48:37.880
and that that really your insider is
kind of kind of had the nail on
708
00:48:37.920 --> 00:48:40.559
the head. Man. I I
never really, I never thought of myself
709
00:48:40.599 --> 00:48:43.719
as a bad guy. I've always
been kind of a good guy in my
710
00:48:43.719 --> 00:48:46.119
whole life. And uh and and
that's kind of how I see myself now.
711
00:48:46.280 --> 00:48:50.280
But again, yeah, there there, I was just I was in
712
00:48:50.360 --> 00:48:53.360
over my head and it was a
lot to handle, uh for for anybody
713
00:48:53.480 --> 00:48:59.519
you know who two weeks before was
backing groceries at a local grocery store and
714
00:48:59.679 --> 00:49:02.239
then now I have the responsibility of
being an ww superstar. It was too
715
00:49:02.320 --> 00:49:06.800
much, too soon. I know
that's cliche, but that that really if
716
00:49:06.840 --> 00:49:10.199
you look up that cliche in the
in the dictionary, my my face is
717
00:49:10.239 --> 00:49:15.079
plastered right next to it. I
love your answer. Your when somebody asked,
718
00:49:15.119 --> 00:49:17.679
or the documentary documentarian, I guess
is a word asked if you will
719
00:49:17.760 --> 00:49:21.239
go back and redo anything? And
you don't have to spaill it here because
720
00:49:21.280 --> 00:49:23.199
I think it's a nice part of
the documentary. But when you know,
721
00:49:23.280 --> 00:49:25.280
he asked, you know, what
would you change about your past? You
722
00:49:25.280 --> 00:49:29.119
could go back and change anything.
I thought you had a really interesting answer.
723
00:49:29.119 --> 00:49:32.280
Your your father now with you and
your fiancee have a child who's not
724
00:49:32.320 --> 00:49:37.639
even one yet, he's not even
two yet, and that and then I
725
00:49:37.719 --> 00:49:40.079
called. I called in two minutes
late because I was he fell and bumped
726
00:49:40.079 --> 00:49:43.920
his head and I was trying to
take care of them all before I hit
727
00:49:43.960 --> 00:49:45.679
the road. And so again I
want to apologize. But yeah, he
728
00:49:46.639 --> 00:49:51.360
Nolan is, he'll be too in
May. Uh and he's he's surely a
729
00:49:51.360 --> 00:49:54.599
gift from God and an absolute blessing. Uh, you know to my life
730
00:49:54.639 --> 00:49:59.679
and into to many many people's lives. Well, my, I know what
731
00:49:59.719 --> 00:50:01.079
that's like. My five year old, Well, while you were talking,
732
00:50:01.119 --> 00:50:04.199
i'd hit the mute button and help
my five year old put his pants on
733
00:50:04.280 --> 00:50:06.559
after his naptime. And he's now
playing with a cat in the other room.
734
00:50:06.639 --> 00:50:12.000
So I know what that's like to
enter fatherhood and how it changes everything,
735
00:50:12.039 --> 00:50:14.880
and that is great. Here here's
another quote. This is from Torch
736
00:50:14.920 --> 00:50:17.480
newsletter number seven eighty one. VIP
members or people who sign up for that
737
00:50:17.480 --> 00:50:22.400
special want to go to this newsletter
in particular, this is from my VIP
738
00:50:22.000 --> 00:50:24.280
Yeah, thank you so well.
You might not say that after this quote.
739
00:50:24.840 --> 00:50:29.360
A This is the October twenty fifth, two thousand and three issue.
740
00:50:29.400 --> 00:50:31.400
I'm doing this in part because I
just think it's such a contrast to where
741
00:50:31.400 --> 00:50:35.559
you've landed NAIs coming across on the
show, the experience you've had in the
742
00:50:35.559 --> 00:50:38.000
story of telling your documentary. But
here here's a quote from that issue.
743
00:50:38.000 --> 00:50:40.360
And this isn't the complete quote,
but it's a highlight. It says Zach
744
00:50:40.440 --> 00:50:44.400
was at the SmackDown taping last Tuesday, but wasn't written into the show,
745
00:50:44.599 --> 00:50:46.400
and some believe it's because management didn't
want to give him any TV time to
746
00:50:46.440 --> 00:50:50.519
further inflate his ego. There's actually
already talked that Zach will be let go
747
00:50:50.559 --> 00:50:53.159
at the end of his contract because
it's becoming clear he's not dedicated to getting
748
00:50:53.159 --> 00:50:57.079
better. He has an ego problem
that perhaps only time away from the spotlight
749
00:50:57.119 --> 00:51:00.920
Mike here, and he hasn't been
the crossover media star that w w E
750
00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:07.519
management initially anticipated. Looking back at
that quote, it do you now look
751
00:51:07.559 --> 00:51:08.320
back and go, yeah, I
see all of that or do you think
752
00:51:08.320 --> 00:51:12.199
you got a bad rap? And
and kind of part two, why weren't
753
00:51:12.199 --> 00:51:15.559
you a bigger crossover media star?
Because I think that's something in the documentary
754
00:51:15.599 --> 00:51:17.920
that that yeah, you're you're.
The way you conducted yourself probably affected that,
755
00:51:19.000 --> 00:51:22.559
but w W WE could have probably
gotten more out of you too,
756
00:51:22.679 --> 00:51:27.639
What what help? What held that
back from having? That's very interesting,
757
00:51:27.719 --> 00:51:30.440
That's that's a very interesting quote.
And uh, you know, I'm I'm
758
00:51:30.440 --> 00:51:35.679
so happy that I'm sitting here talking
to you. That's that And that's very
759
00:51:35.880 --> 00:51:40.199
And I remember exactly that incident,
uh or where they wrote me out of
760
00:51:40.280 --> 00:51:44.880
the show because of because it's something
I did in OVW. And it's so
761
00:51:45.039 --> 00:51:49.760
funny because I went to ov W
on my own volition to try to curb
762
00:51:49.800 --> 00:51:52.239
any any kind of heat that I
was gaining, but I ended up getting
763
00:51:52.320 --> 00:51:58.360
more heat and help you that caused
me to be written off the show at
764
00:51:58.400 --> 00:52:00.480
SmackDown? And what would happened,
and if you want to get to details,
765
00:52:00.519 --> 00:52:04.800
what Apple was. They told me
I wasn't on the show, and
766
00:52:04.880 --> 00:52:07.920
it was a very small locker room. So I grabbed my bag to take
767
00:52:07.960 --> 00:52:10.440
it to the cars to create some
space because I was trying to like show
768
00:52:10.480 --> 00:52:14.159
that even though I wasn't on,
I was still part of the team and
769
00:52:14.199 --> 00:52:16.199
I was still trying to help out. And then they're like, everyone's like,
770
00:52:16.239 --> 00:52:19.760
where are you going, kid?
Why do you grab your bag?
771
00:52:20.159 --> 00:52:22.599
Why are you just taking off because
they're not on the show. And I'm
772
00:52:22.599 --> 00:52:24.639
like, no, that's not what
it is, you know, like there
773
00:52:24.679 --> 00:52:27.960
was there was, Yeah, it
was. It was the case that there's
774
00:52:28.000 --> 00:52:30.320
nothing I could do at that point, you know, as far as not
775
00:52:30.440 --> 00:52:37.079
being a crossover star. The thing
is WWE and and me we didn't know
776
00:52:37.119 --> 00:52:44.239
what we had. We didn't really
understand the potential or or or or the
777
00:52:44.280 --> 00:52:50.679
best way to really use me your
marketing because at the time, like I
778
00:52:50.719 --> 00:52:53.000
said before, like I alluded to
before, this has ever been done before.
779
00:52:53.199 --> 00:52:58.519
So we are literally flying by the
seat of our pants through trial and
780
00:52:58.679 --> 00:53:01.719
error each week, uh, in
front of five million viewers. You know,
781
00:53:01.800 --> 00:53:06.480
it's not like I had an established
act and and we figured out what
782
00:53:06.559 --> 00:53:08.039
works and what doesn't. And then
they then they signed me, or they
783
00:53:08.159 --> 00:53:13.280
then they called me up. Uh, they signed me without knowing what I
784
00:53:13.320 --> 00:53:15.840
looked like. And then they were
then the writers were put in the position
785
00:53:15.920 --> 00:53:20.280
to use me right away. They
didn't send me to b W at first.
786
00:53:20.519 --> 00:53:22.960
So nobody knew if I could wrestle, nobody knew what I looked like,
787
00:53:22.960 --> 00:53:24.239
Nobody knew if I could talk on
the microphone, nobody knew if I
788
00:53:24.239 --> 00:53:29.599
could handle myself in an interview with
the USA Today or you know, to
789
00:53:29.679 --> 00:53:32.559
go live you know with Jay Leno
or Oprah or something now, because I
790
00:53:32.559 --> 00:53:36.039
would love to share a couch with
those guys, and I think it would
791
00:53:36.039 --> 00:53:40.199
be you know, compelling television.
But we didn't know what we had and
792
00:53:40.239 --> 00:53:45.400
it was literally flying by the seat
of our pants trial and air live television
793
00:53:45.440 --> 00:53:49.519
in front of millions. Uh So
ultimately, you know, there was there
794
00:53:49.559 --> 00:53:52.480
was some mistakes there, Uh,
certainly mistakes on my part. And I
795
00:53:52.519 --> 00:53:55.519
think if if we were to go
back and redo it, WW would do
796
00:53:55.639 --> 00:54:00.880
things a lot different, uh than
than than they did. Yeah. Absolutely,
797
00:54:06.400 --> 00:54:07.920
you don't have to wait for the
way Keller Pro Wrestling post show to
798
00:54:07.960 --> 00:54:10.840
find out what I thought of Monday
Night Raw and SmackDown. Each week,
799
00:54:10.880 --> 00:54:15.440
you can check out my reports that
are updated live throughout Raw and SmackDown at
800
00:54:15.480 --> 00:54:21.039
pwtorch dot com. My written report
will tell you what's happening in detail in
801
00:54:21.039 --> 00:54:23.800
case you missed the show, and
it will also analyze key segments and give
802
00:54:23.840 --> 00:54:29.320
my random thoughts quips on what I'm
watching as it airs. So check it
803
00:54:29.360 --> 00:54:34.559
out every Monday night and Tuesday night
at pewtorch dot com. That also applies
804
00:54:34.599 --> 00:54:38.000
to wwepayperviews. I cover those live
at pw torch dot com with a detailed
805
00:54:38.000 --> 00:54:42.559
written report with star ratings. And
of course you can find other TV reports
806
00:54:42.599 --> 00:54:46.519
from other contributors to PW torch such
as nxt roh, Impact Wrestling and more.
807
00:54:46.880 --> 00:54:52.079
Check it out pwtorch dot com your
first stop for TV and pay per
808
00:54:52.159 --> 00:55:05.760
view written reports. M hm,
let's go back to the bull Mine and
809
00:55:06.000 --> 00:55:07.400
let's go to New York next.
Here go three four seven. You're on
810
00:55:07.480 --> 00:55:12.599
with Zach Gollan. Please state your
name and where you're coming from. Uh.
811
00:55:13.199 --> 00:55:15.400
Hello, this is Christian, New
York. Hey, Chris, what
812
00:55:15.400 --> 00:55:19.559
have you got for that? Uh? I have two questions. The first
813
00:55:19.559 --> 00:55:22.320
one is about John Cena. When
Zach was in the company, did he
814
00:55:22.400 --> 00:55:27.920
ever envision that that John Cena would
become the biggest star of the company.
815
00:55:28.559 --> 00:55:32.199
And the second one is about the
PG rating. With W being so politically
816
00:55:32.199 --> 00:55:37.039
correct, do you think it can
hinder a potential Zach Gower returned because the
817
00:55:37.079 --> 00:55:43.960
media that doesn't understand pro wrestling would
see that they were exploiting him. That's
818
00:55:44.039 --> 00:55:45.920
the Chris, thank you for God
and other are awesome questions. Man,
819
00:55:46.199 --> 00:55:50.119
this is why I'm this is why
I'm loving this interview because I'm getting asked
820
00:55:50.199 --> 00:55:52.039
uff and I don't easily get asked
tonight, you know. I mean I
821
00:55:52.440 --> 00:55:55.519
enjoyed that because most of the time, not to bear anybody else, but
822
00:55:55.559 --> 00:55:59.239
it's like what was Hawt Cogan?
Like? What was Vincent Man? Like?
823
00:56:00.519 --> 00:56:02.320
You know, And that's really the
extent of it. But the idea
824
00:56:02.360 --> 00:56:06.760
of now that the w W being
PG, I think that would help rather
825
00:56:06.840 --> 00:56:09.679
than hinder. You tell my story
about you know, being bullied and feeling
826
00:56:09.719 --> 00:56:15.159
different and then overcoming those odds.
I think it's it's made for for PG.
827
00:56:15.320 --> 00:56:17.719
We don't have to get as grastick
or as unsettling as we did,
828
00:56:17.800 --> 00:56:22.039
you know, ten years ago,
and as far as John Cena goes,
829
00:56:22.440 --> 00:56:24.559
we I think everyone in the locker
room knew he was going to be like
830
00:56:25.280 --> 00:56:29.920
a huge star. At the time, you know, he was doing his
831
00:56:30.000 --> 00:56:32.199
rap gimmick and he was trying to
find his voice and trying to find his
832
00:56:32.280 --> 00:56:37.119
character, and of course eventually he
did. And I think you can make
833
00:56:37.280 --> 00:56:40.280
a case for Johnson to being the
greatest of all time because no other wrestler
834
00:56:40.320 --> 00:56:45.079
has had the kind of run he's
had on top for over ten years now
835
00:56:45.280 --> 00:56:47.719
or about ten years now at this
point, which is nothing short of amazing.
836
00:56:49.599 --> 00:56:52.199
But he's so so good. He
is so good at what he does.
837
00:56:53.360 --> 00:56:57.679
He's the best in the world right
now for sure. But yeah,
838
00:56:57.719 --> 00:57:00.440
we knew that there was a ton
of potential there, but we didn't really
839
00:57:00.559 --> 00:57:06.079
understand how how big he was going
to get. That that was my feeling.
840
00:57:06.079 --> 00:57:09.639
Anyway, did he jump accentuate this
point? How much did he jump
841
00:57:09.639 --> 00:57:14.760
out as a guy who could be
relied upon. I mean on the show
842
00:57:14.800 --> 00:57:17.039
that I think it was on the
show that you worked, Matt Hardy,
843
00:57:17.159 --> 00:57:22.519
it was John Seene against Kurt Angle, which was a big match of John's's
844
00:57:22.559 --> 00:57:25.519
history is also by the way,
the Undertaker brock Lesner match. Speaking of
845
00:57:25.519 --> 00:57:30.039
of brock Lesnar and WrestleMania this weekend, so I people have ww ME networking
846
00:57:30.159 --> 00:57:34.360
want to get a preview of Undertaker
brock Lesner and compared to what they were
847
00:57:34.360 --> 00:57:37.480
able to do eleven years ago,
that's worth checking out. But how did
848
00:57:37.519 --> 00:57:42.079
Sena present himself in a way compared
to a lot of the other guys at
849
00:57:42.079 --> 00:57:45.000
that point as somebody who who seemed
like, yeah, this this guy has
850
00:57:45.039 --> 00:57:49.519
the head on his shoulders, the
determination, the motivation and professionalism, the
851
00:57:49.599 --> 00:57:52.559
desire and all of that compared to
some of the other guys who were around
852
00:57:52.559 --> 00:57:54.239
around that time. A Sean O'Hare, a John heyden Reich, you know,
853
00:57:54.480 --> 00:57:58.679
pick the guy you know who are
under Yeah, yeah, explain it.
854
00:57:58.679 --> 00:58:01.199
I give a little more anecdote on
that, one hundred percent. John
855
00:58:01.239 --> 00:58:05.320
Seena is a guy who walks into
the room and you know he's in the
856
00:58:05.400 --> 00:58:07.719
room. He's a very very He's
an alpha. He's an alpha male.
857
00:58:08.199 --> 00:58:14.599
Uh, extremely charismatic, h extremely
kind, extremely nice, extremely you know,
858
00:58:14.639 --> 00:58:17.719
he's a he's a good looking guy. Uh, incredibly built. Uh
859
00:58:17.760 --> 00:58:22.000
he has all the you know,
obviously you could see all the tools were
860
00:58:22.000 --> 00:58:25.480
there. Uh, from from the
start. You know, the question was,
861
00:58:25.559 --> 00:58:29.599
but is there is there longevity?
Is he going to put it all
862
00:58:29.639 --> 00:58:31.360
together? Will he get the opportunity? And once he does, is going
863
00:58:31.440 --> 00:58:35.239
to run with it? You know? And these are things that that they
864
00:58:35.280 --> 00:58:37.639
have to happen on the fly.
Uh. And by the fly, I
865
00:58:37.679 --> 00:58:40.480
mean you have to you have to
give somebody an opportunity uh uh and and
866
00:58:40.519 --> 00:58:45.719
they have to run with it like
you can't uh, you know for something
867
00:58:45.639 --> 00:58:50.239
that the fans don't want, you
know. And so the whole idea behind
868
00:58:50.320 --> 00:58:52.960
scene is that, yeah, you
could do if you sat in that locker
869
00:58:52.039 --> 00:58:57.119
room in two thousand and three,
you you knew who was going to uh
870
00:58:57.440 --> 00:59:00.880
have a really long and successful career. Uh. And I'm talking about JOHNSENA.
871
00:59:01.119 --> 00:59:04.760
You knew that right away for sure. Yep, we did. Uh.
872
00:59:04.920 --> 00:59:07.400
In the last five seconds, the
song quality got a little muffled.
873
00:59:07.400 --> 00:59:08.000
So if that's something you're in control
of, change it. If not,
874
00:59:08.119 --> 00:59:10.119
it's just the area driving through.
It should get better. Just want to
875
00:59:10.199 --> 00:59:15.199
lurt you to it. Sact cool. So I think did we cover both
876
00:59:15.360 --> 00:59:17.760
of Chris's questions? It was several
minutes ago. Yeah, I think we
877
00:59:17.800 --> 00:59:22.159
talked about and we talked about w
W being PG. That's right, So
878
00:59:22.480 --> 00:59:27.559
Chris are you Are you satisfied he's
honking a call? Yes, all right,
879
00:59:27.599 --> 00:59:30.519
cool, appreciate christ the regular here. He's driving the new streets in
880
00:59:30.519 --> 00:59:34.599
New York, so you can' it's
not you can't expect to not hear a
881
00:59:34.639 --> 00:59:37.519
horn honking. All right, let's
go another phone call here, Let's go
882
00:59:37.559 --> 00:59:39.679
to aeric code six O nine six
on nine. Thanks for calling. Please
883
00:59:39.679 --> 00:59:45.199
state your name and where you're calling
from. Oh damn, Actually ways,
884
00:59:45.360 --> 00:59:49.400
Lewis again from New Jersey. I
put yeah, I got disconnected, and
885
00:59:49.440 --> 00:59:52.599
then one, but hey, since
you're since you took my call, I
886
00:59:52.639 --> 00:59:54.480
took that one question. No where
I'm not going to ask the typical three
887
00:59:54.559 --> 00:59:57.519
Yeah, go ahead, and that's
one. Okay, No, I'm actually
888
00:59:58.000 --> 01:00:00.920
now, I'm actually Zach, I'm
at see. I'm also a substance abuse
889
01:00:00.960 --> 01:00:04.960
counselor too, and I'm just the
counselor in general. So I just want
890
01:00:04.960 --> 01:00:07.239
to know. I just want to
get those like I mean, not from
891
01:00:07.239 --> 01:00:09.960
my presences, but I just want
to know from your personal experience, especially
892
01:00:09.960 --> 01:00:14.719
with the amount of money that w
WE paid for, how was that program
893
01:00:14.760 --> 01:00:16.960
for you? And what are some
pro and cons that you solve about the
894
01:00:16.960 --> 01:00:20.800
program, and if you could have
went back and if you wish they could
895
01:00:20.800 --> 01:00:22.679
have done anything different, what would
you have done? And uh, you
896
01:00:22.760 --> 01:00:27.400
can view me will Thanks for letting
me ask that question. Sure, absolutely,
897
01:00:27.639 --> 01:00:30.039
yeah, good good topics. Thank
you Lewis. And and I I
898
01:00:30.079 --> 01:00:35.199
certainly appreciate your working in substance in
the substance abuse field. Uh. You
899
01:00:35.239 --> 01:00:37.760
know, we need more guys like
you out there because the suffering is real
900
01:00:37.800 --> 01:00:44.199
and it's growing exponentially. But I
couldn't have landed in a in a better
901
01:00:44.239 --> 01:00:47.960
treatment facility, uh if I tried, and and that was thanks to ww's
902
01:00:49.280 --> 01:00:52.360
won their dollars into their connections,
uh and their you know, their wellness,
903
01:00:52.440 --> 01:00:58.920
their wellness program. But what they
do and what WWE does and every
904
01:00:58.960 --> 01:01:02.599
single aspect of their business is they
give you an opportunity. Right. So
905
01:01:02.719 --> 01:01:09.679
they gave me an opportunity to go
to a very very established and well known
906
01:01:10.280 --> 01:01:15.679
inpatient residential treatment center for twenty eight
days. Right. And of course I'm
907
01:01:15.679 --> 01:01:17.079
gonna go there for twenty eight days, and I'm not gonna use drugs,
908
01:01:17.119 --> 01:01:22.000
I'm not gonna drink. But the
question is what's going to happen once I'm
909
01:01:22.960 --> 01:01:25.559
once I'm out of there and I'm
on my own. And for me,
910
01:01:27.039 --> 01:01:34.199
I saw this as an opportunity.
And unfortunately, relapse is a huge part
911
01:01:34.679 --> 01:01:38.960
of many people's recovery, not just
wrestlers who go through ww streatment program or
912
01:01:39.000 --> 01:01:42.760
anybody else. But if you you
know Lewis, you work in the field,
913
01:01:42.800 --> 01:01:45.239
You've seen it every single day.
Relapse is a huge part of people's
914
01:01:45.280 --> 01:01:50.280
journey, and thank god it's never
been mine, because I don't know if
915
01:01:50.280 --> 01:01:52.199
I have another recovery in me,
I have another relapse in me, I
916
01:01:52.400 --> 01:01:57.159
can I can step out of the
car right now and go get drunk or
917
01:01:57.239 --> 01:01:59.480
high or whatever it is, but
I don't know if I'm gonna come back.
918
01:02:00.280 --> 01:02:05.960
And the fact is I want to
be around because I believe that the
919
01:02:06.000 --> 01:02:09.000
sole reason for my existence is to
be a max is to be of maximum
920
01:02:09.000 --> 01:02:13.639
service to God and the people around
me. Uh and how and whatever that
921
01:02:13.679 --> 01:02:15.760
looks like, That's that's what I'm
willing to do because that keeps me happy,
922
01:02:15.840 --> 01:02:22.320
joys and free, and it keeps
me uh relieved from the merciless obsession
923
01:02:22.599 --> 01:02:25.400
right uh. And this is this
is this mindset that I have, this
924
01:02:25.400 --> 01:02:30.119
this spiritual connection that I have,
uh, this this whole life I have,
925
01:02:30.719 --> 01:02:35.840
uh started because w w uh paid
for my my first twenty eight days
926
01:02:35.840 --> 01:02:38.559
of treatment and that's it. Without
that, I don't know if we're having
927
01:02:38.559 --> 01:02:44.320
this conversation. That's an amazing story
too. In the documentary about you delivering
928
01:02:44.360 --> 01:02:47.559
pizzas just what four years three,
four, five years ago? Yeah,
929
01:02:47.639 --> 01:02:51.440
yeah, yeah, right, but
it was one of the it was it
930
01:02:51.480 --> 01:02:54.039
was a low point, you know, five years before five, five years
931
01:02:54.039 --> 01:02:58.800
before that, and I made inventing
pay per views of vincig Man and then
932
01:02:58.800 --> 01:03:01.000
here I am delivering. So he's
trying to trying to work up enough fits
933
01:03:01.079 --> 01:03:06.239
just to get my fixed for the
day, and and delivering to some of
934
01:03:06.320 --> 01:03:09.199
the worst neighborhoods Destroit has to offer, uh and so and so that that's
935
01:03:09.440 --> 01:03:14.840
how fast the progression of addiction and
alcoholism is gonna happen. And that story
936
01:03:14.880 --> 01:03:17.679
you told of you know, being
robbed at gunpoint, very poignant and what
937
01:03:17.800 --> 01:03:22.639
you said about it being a low
point and you know, seeing you you
938
01:03:22.760 --> 01:03:27.880
surviving that moment and many others.
Sean Waltman talked about that on this show,
939
01:03:27.880 --> 01:03:30.239
and Jake Roberts Has and Scott Hall
has and just incredible f P.
940
01:03:30.400 --> 01:03:34.639
J. Walker had on this show. They've talked about how when you live
941
01:03:34.800 --> 01:03:37.559
through what you put your body through, uh, in terms of drugs and
942
01:03:37.599 --> 01:03:42.360
alcohol abuse, when you survive that, you almost feel I don't know,
943
01:03:42.400 --> 01:03:45.840
responsibility is not the word, but
like a motivation or a sense of purpose
944
01:03:45.920 --> 01:03:49.880
that hey, maybe I survive for
a reason, and I want to make
945
01:03:49.960 --> 01:03:53.400
this kind of bonus time that a
lot of people don't get. Louis Pacoli's
946
01:03:53.440 --> 01:03:57.000
in the world. I want to. I want to, you know,
947
01:03:57.039 --> 01:04:00.320
I want to make this bonus time
work. And and you know it's you
948
01:04:00.360 --> 01:04:04.480
definitely seem like you feel that way. Yeah, I have a unique opportunity
949
01:04:04.519 --> 01:04:08.840
to have to live a second life. Uh, and I'm not I'm not
950
01:04:08.960 --> 01:04:12.559
going to squander this opportunity. You
know, you can. You can make
951
01:04:12.599 --> 01:04:15.920
a case for a third life because
out of all of those kids who had
952
01:04:15.960 --> 01:04:20.840
cancer at Children's Hospital when I was
eight years old, me and another girl
953
01:04:20.880 --> 01:04:25.159
made it out. And that's it, you know, out of all of
954
01:04:25.159 --> 01:04:30.199
those wings and so we survived that
for a reason. We survived the alcoholism
955
01:04:30.280 --> 01:04:32.239
and the drug addiction for a reason. And you know, I'm having this
956
01:04:32.280 --> 01:04:36.400
conversation with you for a reason.
Hopefully my story, my story can can
957
01:04:36.480 --> 01:04:41.480
touch somebody else's life and encourage them
or inspire them to make it make a
958
01:04:41.559 --> 01:04:45.039
change. Uh, and and whatever
that looks like, or whether it's just
959
01:04:45.119 --> 01:04:47.400
for the you know, the forty
five minutes that we're having this conversation and
960
01:04:47.400 --> 01:04:51.280
they're not thinking about the tax problems
or if they're gonna pay rent this month,
961
01:04:51.320 --> 01:04:54.079
you know what I mean? Like, maybe that's what it is.
962
01:04:54.119 --> 01:04:57.719
I don't know, for stressing out
over ww network not working during the main
963
01:04:57.760 --> 01:05:02.960
event to reestumation. Oh my god, I can to watch it. I
964
01:05:03.000 --> 01:05:05.679
cannot. I can. I always
I was thinking about that today. I'm
965
01:05:05.719 --> 01:05:10.719
gonna order a pizza and watch it
on my computer, and uh, you
966
01:05:10.760 --> 01:05:13.920
know, that's what I'm looking forward
to on Sunday. But I really it's
967
01:05:14.519 --> 01:05:17.360
if it crashes, man, that
it could be a potentially huge disaster for
968
01:05:17.440 --> 01:05:28.440
them. Longing for some nostalgia or
maybe you want to learn some wrestling history,
969
01:05:29.159 --> 01:05:31.960
don't miss the nineties Past Cast.
Every Friday on the PW Torch Daily
970
01:05:32.039 --> 01:05:36.960
Cast Feed, Alex and Patrick will
transport you thirty years into the past by
971
01:05:38.079 --> 01:05:42.239
taking you through the Torch issue from
that very week. Follow news from the
972
01:05:42.320 --> 01:05:46.320
WWF and WCW and all the happenings
from across the wrestling industry in real time
973
01:05:46.519 --> 01:05:51.119
as The Torch reported it thirty years
ago, that's the nineties pass cast every
974
01:05:51.119 --> 01:06:06.079
Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast
Feed. Well, would we have to
975
01:06:06.159 --> 01:06:11.280
pulld up on pwport dot com and
the app today? And regarding Ussemani and
976
01:06:11.320 --> 01:06:14.360
the network? And I asked,
would you be watching Russemani on Sunday if
977
01:06:14.400 --> 01:06:16.440
not for WWE Network? And I
had no idea how this is going to
978
01:06:16.519 --> 01:06:21.079
turn out, Zach, But with
two choices, if ww network were not
979
01:06:21.119 --> 01:06:25.039
available, I would have spent seventy
or eighty bucks to order it, or
980
01:06:25.039 --> 01:06:28.239
if it weren't available, I would
not. And right now, it looks
981
01:06:28.280 --> 01:06:31.599
like fifty eight percent of our respondent
so far as saying they would not have
982
01:06:31.679 --> 01:06:36.280
bought it otherwise, so forty two
percent said they would have. And what's
983
01:06:36.320 --> 01:06:40.679
interesting about that on a number of
levels is one but you know, fifty
984
01:06:40.679 --> 01:06:43.119
eight percent of the people watching might
not have been watching otherwise, or they
985
01:06:43.119 --> 01:06:45.519
would have gone to Frances else were
a bar, but they might have skipped
986
01:06:45.519 --> 01:06:47.559
it or watched it in a pirate
feed online or something, but forty two
987
01:06:47.599 --> 01:06:51.360
percent would have spent the money otherwise. And if that's a cross section,
988
01:06:51.960 --> 01:06:56.559
if that's an accurate cross section,
that one million buys one point one one
989
01:06:56.559 --> 01:07:00.280
point two that they got the last
few years, that number of buys is
990
01:07:00.320 --> 01:07:02.400
going to go down now half you
know, a bunch of it is international
991
01:07:02.440 --> 01:07:05.760
and they can't get the network.
So you're looking at maybe a twenty percent
992
01:07:06.000 --> 01:07:11.719
drop in buy rate if I'm trying
to crunch the numbers right, twenty twenty
993
01:07:11.719 --> 01:07:15.519
five percent drop, So you're almost
looking at topping out now at seven eight
994
01:07:15.639 --> 01:07:17.920
hundred thousand buys. And I think
that'd be a good, really successful Usmania
995
01:07:17.920 --> 01:07:21.880
if they were able to do that
many buys and still have all this network
996
01:07:21.880 --> 01:07:26.159
revenue coming in. That's gonna be
really interesting to see how that dynamic works
997
01:07:26.199 --> 01:07:30.880
out between where do the buy rates
go and how many people ordering now are
998
01:07:31.239 --> 01:07:33.639
or are still willing to pay full
price just because they don't feel comfortable with
999
01:07:33.599 --> 01:07:39.039
the network technology exactly. And then
that's a very good thought. And the
1000
01:07:39.079 --> 01:07:43.519
whole idea, I think is even
if they take a loss in terms of
1001
01:07:44.079 --> 01:07:48.599
them not getting as much revenue this
year, long term, they are going
1002
01:07:48.639 --> 01:07:58.400
to absolutely destroy, you know,
And I think we talked earlier about I'm
1003
01:07:58.400 --> 01:08:01.400
sorry my GTS popped up. We
talked earlier about I think we're on the
1004
01:08:01.480 --> 01:08:04.440
virgil of the next boom. And
if you look at the boom in the
1005
01:08:04.599 --> 01:08:09.639
in the in the previous it's always
been, uh, you know, in
1006
01:08:09.679 --> 01:08:14.440
previous years, it's always been spurred
by a technological advance, right in the
1007
01:08:14.559 --> 01:08:15.760
in the in the eighties, it
was with the pay per view, and
1008
01:08:15.840 --> 01:08:20.960
in the nineties with the networks and
the cables and everything blew up with that.
1009
01:08:21.720 --> 01:08:25.600
And now you know, we're going
this is where we're headed. We're
1010
01:08:25.640 --> 01:08:29.279
headed towards this Netflix model. Man, the HBO goes man, this this
1011
01:08:29.359 --> 01:08:31.720
is the Hulus. This is this
is what the future is because there's there
1012
01:08:31.720 --> 01:08:34.640
aren't there aren't going to be any
more TVs. It's going to be a
1013
01:08:34.680 --> 01:08:38.520
tablet. It's going to be your
phone, it's going to be your computer.
1014
01:08:38.600 --> 01:08:40.439
It's going to be how you watch
TV. It's going to be your
1015
01:08:41.039 --> 01:08:44.439
movie player. You know, it's
we're all going towards one thing. And
1016
01:08:44.479 --> 01:08:46.960
if they can have that little w
w ee square where all you have to
1017
01:08:47.000 --> 01:08:50.279
do is click it and you can
watch anything you want and watch live pay
1018
01:08:50.319 --> 01:08:53.840
per views. Come on, man, this is this is where it's kind
1019
01:08:53.880 --> 01:08:56.640
of did so. I think in
the in the next in the next few
1020
01:08:56.680 --> 01:09:00.479
years is going to be so telling
and it's going to be uh, it's
1021
01:09:00.520 --> 01:09:01.720
gonna be a ride. Man,
It's gonna it's gonna be fun to watch.
1022
01:09:02.199 --> 01:09:05.039
We put this pull up this other
one right before the show too,
1023
01:09:05.079 --> 01:09:09.000
over five hundred votes in and we
asked, how are you going to watch
1024
01:09:09.039 --> 01:09:12.560
WrestleMania? Sixty three percent of people
responding to our poll not saying this is
1025
01:09:12.560 --> 01:09:15.960
scientific, but it's it contributes to
our information based here. Sixty three percent
1026
01:09:16.319 --> 01:09:23.319
say they're watching it on the network
with their fingers crossed, and eight percent
1027
01:09:23.760 --> 01:09:28.000
will be watching it live through a
pirate feed. And what I wonder is
1028
01:09:28.000 --> 01:09:30.399
how many of those sixty three percent
we're watching on the network are the type
1029
01:09:30.399 --> 01:09:32.680
of computer savvy people who would have
been trying to find a way to do
1030
01:09:32.720 --> 01:09:38.399
it for free. But because WWE's
charging a reasonable price, they're willing to
1031
01:09:38.399 --> 01:09:43.000
pay ten bucks a month because ww's
charging reasonable price and not not have that
1032
01:09:43.119 --> 01:09:45.720
unreliable pirate feed they're trying trying to
hook onto. So you just wonder,
1033
01:09:45.760 --> 01:09:48.880
you know a lot of people talk
about the loss and revenue of paying full
1034
01:09:48.920 --> 01:09:51.319
price for pay per views, you
know, forty five fifty five bucks normally
1035
01:09:51.359 --> 01:09:55.600
seventy five eighty five bucks for WrestleMania. How much of that revenue that they
1036
01:09:55.600 --> 01:09:58.479
lose is actually be outset by people
who normally would use a pirate feed.
1037
01:09:58.479 --> 01:10:00.119
But now they're happy to pay ten
bucks. They can afford that, and
1038
01:10:00.159 --> 01:10:04.000
they're kind of going legit. I
think, I think it's such an interesting
1039
01:10:04.000 --> 01:10:09.359
topic to have. I'd love to
see what what what what the revenue sheets
1040
01:10:09.359 --> 01:10:12.600
look like and what the projections look
like. I know they're getting ten dollars
1041
01:10:12.600 --> 01:10:16.119
a month out of me, uh
when they normally would get zero and you
1042
01:10:16.159 --> 01:10:18.560
know, so I mean, I
can only speak for me, but I'd
1043
01:10:18.560 --> 01:10:21.600
love to see what what what the
what the plan and the idea you know,
1044
01:10:21.720 --> 01:10:25.439
short term and long term is.
I think it's a very interesting discussion
1045
01:10:25.439 --> 01:10:29.159
to have. We have a VIP
member calling up from Erico three to two.
1046
01:10:29.199 --> 01:10:33.520
Oh, let's bring uh Billy Ancy
on from Melacca, Minnesota. VIP
1047
01:10:33.600 --> 01:10:36.760
member Billianti Carl from Malaca. Welcome
to the show. What have you got
1048
01:10:36.760 --> 01:10:43.199
for Zach Gowing today? So I
just tuned in, so if I asked
1049
01:10:43.199 --> 01:10:45.920
a repeated question. I apologize first, there's no problem other things that we're
1050
01:10:45.920 --> 01:10:47.960
in the show for a year if
that happens, Carl. But other than
1051
01:10:47.960 --> 01:10:53.880
that, no punishment. I'll keep
my VI I P. I'll keep my
1052
01:10:54.039 --> 01:10:56.800
VA VI T membership too, though, Okay, that's fair. We won't
1053
01:10:56.840 --> 01:11:01.239
we won't catch up. My question
is about working with Vince. I've always
1054
01:11:01.279 --> 01:11:04.800
heard that working with Vince you have
to be very stiff, as I noticed
1055
01:11:04.840 --> 01:11:09.479
when Orton punches him in the head, he got punted way harder. And
1056
01:11:09.520 --> 01:11:12.920
I read an interview with you where
Vince grabbed you by the collar or something
1057
01:11:12.960 --> 01:11:15.960
and staid like, hit me really
hard, kid, or something like that.
1058
01:11:15.479 --> 01:11:18.800
Is that true or I'm just asking
about work with Vince. Do you
1059
01:11:18.840 --> 01:11:21.359
have to be extra up with him? Yeah, Carl, we did cover
1060
01:11:21.399 --> 01:11:25.079
that earlier. But Zach, you
have any anecdotes to add about Vince that
1061
01:11:25.319 --> 01:11:28.239
you didn't get to. Yeah.
Yeah, he helped at me for not
1062
01:11:28.760 --> 01:11:32.279
for giving him a work wrestling punch
at one point in the match. Then
1063
01:11:32.279 --> 01:11:35.239
I then I kind of realized that
he doesn't know how to sell because he's
1064
01:11:35.279 --> 01:11:39.720
not a he's not a trained wrestler, and so for him to sell and
1065
01:11:39.920 --> 01:11:42.560
for it to look believable, I'd
have to hit him as hard as I
1066
01:11:42.560 --> 01:11:44.880
could, and that's what I did
for the rest of the match. So
1067
01:11:44.920 --> 01:11:46.560
for the rest of the match,
she says me, literally and that's probab.
1068
01:11:46.560 --> 01:11:49.079
That's probably why there is a guy
who are blood shooting on at the
1069
01:11:49.079 --> 01:11:54.319
top of the set. Was literally
me just just punching him and kicking him
1070
01:11:54.319 --> 01:11:57.640
as hard as I could. We
do. By the way, on PW
1071
01:11:57.760 --> 01:12:00.800
torch dot com right now, have
trailer linked at the top of the main
1072
01:12:00.800 --> 01:12:09.760
listing for the documentary that you're in
and it's called Finding Zach Gowan and Joe
1073
01:12:10.079 --> 01:12:14.960
dom Browski was the producer of the
documentary and it is your life story you
1074
01:12:15.000 --> 01:12:18.479
mentioned at the beginning of the show
where people can access it. On pw
1075
01:12:18.560 --> 01:12:21.520
torch dot com right now, people
can find a trailer for the DVD and
1076
01:12:21.600 --> 01:12:27.399
also a link to downloading it and
ordering it. So before we sign off
1077
01:12:27.399 --> 01:12:29.960
in a couple of minutes on the
live show, Zach and hopefully have a
1078
01:12:30.000 --> 01:12:32.600
future minutes to do a little VIP
after show with us, we will have
1079
01:12:32.680 --> 01:12:35.199
you plug it one more time,
so it's freshing people's minds at the very
1080
01:12:35.239 --> 01:12:39.439
end of the show. Awesome,
Yeah, cool, excellent. I want
1081
01:12:39.439 --> 01:12:41.640
to get in at least one more
phone call if you want to get on
1082
01:12:41.640 --> 01:12:43.720
the phone banks to try to squeeze, we might try to squeeze in six
1083
01:12:43.800 --> 01:12:46.119
four six, seven to nine to
A two eight. Zach Gowen is my
1084
01:12:46.199 --> 01:12:48.520
guest. If you're just joining us
live. He's been on for the last
1085
01:12:48.520 --> 01:12:53.399
hour and fifteen minutes. And we'll
be moving to the VIP after show soon.
1086
01:12:53.439 --> 01:12:55.920
And I took some notes during the
interview for some other topics, and
1087
01:12:56.000 --> 01:12:59.039
also we'll just chat about restuminia thirties
to line up, maybe do some predictions
1088
01:12:59.039 --> 01:13:02.880
and and uh for this year and
looking ahead. All right, let's go
1089
01:13:02.960 --> 01:13:06.199
to eight six two in Believe,
New Jersey. Please state your name and
1090
01:13:06.239 --> 01:13:13.079
where you're calling from, Kiln from
North New Jersey. Kylin. Have you
1091
01:13:13.199 --> 01:13:18.560
used up any of your questions so
far? M? No, no,
1092
01:13:18.560 --> 01:13:21.960
no, have not? Awesome?
Well hit hit us up here? What
1093
01:13:21.960 --> 01:13:32.760
have you got for Zach? First
one? Do you suppose that rock lessner
1094
01:13:34.000 --> 01:13:42.920
gruesome league destroying you? Bye bye, throwing you down there slight up stairs.
1095
01:13:44.239 --> 01:13:51.039
In August two thousand and three,
work payback for your in mature and
1096
01:13:51.319 --> 01:13:59.279
instant behavior, first, and yeah, we'll go back to Colin for a
1097
01:13:59.279 --> 01:14:02.960
follow up. Very sure, thank
you. That's a very interesting question.
1098
01:14:03.520 --> 01:14:08.199
And it was. It was so
funny. It might have been on torched
1099
01:14:08.199 --> 01:14:10.640
and I don't want to I don't
want to give you guys credit or it's
1100
01:14:10.640 --> 01:14:14.800
not due. Uh, but that's
what the the Third Sheets reported the day
1101
01:14:14.840 --> 01:14:17.119
after it happened like Zach had so
much sheet that they threw him down the
1102
01:14:17.119 --> 01:14:21.239
stairs, when in actuality with that, that whole angle was planned uh from
1103
01:14:21.319 --> 01:14:26.720
the jump for a long time.
We're gonna do something. We're gonna do
1104
01:14:26.720 --> 01:14:30.680
a huge stunt. Either either Brock
was gonna throw me off the SmackDown fist
1105
01:14:30.760 --> 01:14:33.840
if you if you remember the old
SmackDown UH set had a giant fist that
1106
01:14:33.840 --> 01:14:38.359
that stuck out through the wall and
Brock was either gonna throw me off the
1107
01:14:38.399 --> 01:14:42.600
fist or he was gonna throw me
down the flight of stairs. And we
1108
01:14:42.640 --> 01:14:46.920
didn't do the fists because logistically we
couldn't get me and Brock on top of
1109
01:14:46.920 --> 01:14:50.760
the fist. We couldn't make sense
out of that, so we did the
1110
01:14:50.800 --> 01:14:57.199
stairs gag and the what actually happened
was they had a stunt double come in
1111
01:14:57.520 --> 01:14:59.760
and take the fall from me,
and it was kind of weary because the
1112
01:14:59.800 --> 01:15:02.640
guy really looked a lot like me, and so he yeah, so we
1113
01:15:02.680 --> 01:15:08.119
did. We did a quick cut
at it and reshot it and the Sun
1114
01:15:08.119 --> 01:15:13.000
guy took it. But but yeah, that that wasn't me. It's before
1115
01:15:13.079 --> 01:15:15.439
that Vincent man asked me. He
goes, hey, Zach, do you
1116
01:15:15.439 --> 01:15:16.960
want to take the fall yourself?
I looked at him and I said,
1117
01:15:16.960 --> 01:15:20.640
hell no, like like I'll take
a bump in the ring or something,
1118
01:15:20.680 --> 01:15:24.319
but I'm not, you know,
exactly trained to fall down in two puts
1119
01:15:24.359 --> 01:15:28.560
stairs with a with a freaking wheelchair
chasing after me, you know. So
1120
01:15:28.600 --> 01:15:30.319
I wasn't that comfortable with that.
That was probably the only one time I
1121
01:15:30.319 --> 01:15:33.479
said no other events, but but
yeah, we had a Sun guy take
1122
01:15:33.520 --> 01:15:36.920
it for me. Interesting and now
you've actually done some stunt work since then.
1123
01:15:38.159 --> 01:15:43.199
Since then, ironically it's full circle
man, absolutely, yeah, yeah,
1124
01:15:43.319 --> 01:15:45.520
very good. All right, Colin, we're gonna go back to for
1125
01:15:45.760 --> 01:15:53.279
question number two. What have you
got for boy? My Goldda Actually wasn't
1126
01:15:53.359 --> 01:16:00.279
you because I thought you would.
Seriously, I didn't quite hear it.
1127
01:16:00.880 --> 01:16:03.399
He just said he was glad.
Kylon said he was glad that wasn't you
1128
01:16:03.439 --> 01:16:06.479
because he really feared you were seriously
injured. Well, thank you very much.
1129
01:16:06.479 --> 01:16:09.399
I'm glad I can offer you a
little bit of peace of mind.
1130
01:16:11.560 --> 01:16:15.199
All right, go ahead, go
ahead. On Kylin, question number two,
1131
01:16:16.119 --> 01:16:24.600
were there ever any plans for you
to be used again after your final
1132
01:16:24.880 --> 01:16:31.520
match in October two thousand and three
or were you just going to stay home?
1133
01:16:33.359 --> 01:16:36.720
I'm sorry? Were there any plans
for what? Were there any plans
1134
01:16:36.720 --> 01:16:45.159
to use you after after what Kylon
after the legend angle after his final against
1135
01:16:45.279 --> 01:16:49.800
Kaziri? Oh? Okay, I'm
sorry. What was the question? Yeah?
1136
01:16:49.800 --> 01:16:53.000
Were there any plans to use you
after your final match with the Jerry
1137
01:16:53.039 --> 01:16:58.439
that you knew of? Not that
I know of. I think at the
1138
01:16:58.479 --> 01:17:01.640
time at the time, I was
feeding with Matt Hardie. Uh, and
1139
01:17:01.840 --> 01:17:05.840
I think we're gonna continue doing that. But no, I think that's I
1140
01:17:05.880 --> 01:17:11.119
think me getting a concussion knocked out
completely was a great opportunity for them to
1141
01:17:11.159 --> 01:17:14.720
send me home and eventually fire me. Yes, yes, all right,
1142
01:17:14.720 --> 01:17:25.000
go ahead, Colin. Your final
question and final question is is there any
1143
01:17:25.119 --> 01:17:33.319
person in w W now that that's
that you that you would like to make
1144
01:17:33.399 --> 01:17:44.119
commends with that you didn't did a
chance to during your first run someone that
1145
01:17:44.119 --> 01:17:51.199
that you really treated badly. Yeah, well, that's that's a great question.
1146
01:17:54.039 --> 01:17:57.399
I've never been asked that before.
I would love to have a conversation
1147
01:17:57.520 --> 01:18:01.239
with the Undertaker because I know,
I know at the time and you know
1148
01:18:01.279 --> 01:18:05.520
as it is now. Uh he
and John Sina too, but the Undertaker,
1149
01:18:05.640 --> 01:18:11.079
it was the locker room leader,
and so for for anything, uh
1150
01:18:11.119 --> 01:18:13.600
that goes on in the locker room
has to go through him. So I
1151
01:18:13.600 --> 01:18:17.760
would love to sit down with with
Taker and have a conversation. And I
1152
01:18:17.920 --> 01:18:23.199
have no ill feeling stores anybody there
right now. But if anybody has has
1153
01:18:23.279 --> 01:18:27.319
any you know, weirdness about me, uh, which I doubt because it
1154
01:18:27.359 --> 01:18:30.119
was so long ago, but even
you know, even if there is now,
1155
01:18:30.199 --> 01:18:33.159
if there's an opportunity to you know, mend some fences and the build
1156
01:18:33.199 --> 01:18:38.119
some bridges back up, I would
love to. But uh, but I
1157
01:18:38.119 --> 01:18:43.119
guess I guess the the question is, uh, you know, was I
1158
01:18:43.319 --> 01:18:46.319
was I that disruptive enough in the
locker room to affect other people's lives?
1159
01:18:46.680 --> 01:18:49.239
Uh? And if the answer is
yes, and then I do all people
1160
01:18:49.279 --> 01:18:53.600
laments, And so I would love
to have that opportunity. That's a very
1161
01:18:53.600 --> 01:18:57.520
good question. Cool, Thank you
Kylin for calling. We're gonna wrap up
1162
01:18:57.560 --> 01:19:00.039
the free portion of the show here
the people you Torch Live cast, and
1163
01:19:00.119 --> 01:19:04.359
we will now shift into the VIP
exclusive after show for VIP members. Don't
1164
01:19:04.359 --> 01:19:11.520
forget you can go to PW anytime
you're watching WWE Raw or SmackDown or AEW
1165
01:19:11.680 --> 01:19:14.960
Dynamite in particular, send us an
email if you've got thoughts on the show
1166
01:19:15.079 --> 01:19:17.800
or a topic you want us to
address or a question for us. Wadekeller
1167
01:19:17.840 --> 01:19:25.239
Podcast at pwtorch dot com. Wadkeller
Podcast at pewtorch dot com. If there's
1168
01:19:25.239 --> 01:19:28.039
anything else going on in pro wrestling
that you want us to address on our
1169
01:19:28.079 --> 01:19:32.840
main podcast during our mailbank segments,
that same email applies Wadekeller Podcast at pwtorch
1170
01:19:32.920 --> 01:19:36.119
dot com. We invite that interaction. Let us know what you think of
1171
01:19:36.119 --> 01:19:40.319
what we're saying, and let us
know what you want us to talk about
1172
01:19:40.520 --> 01:19:48.920
and ask us specific questions. Wadkeller
Podcast at PW torch dot com. We
1173
01:19:48.960 --> 01:19:53.279
appreciate you joining us, Zach,
thank you so much for your generous time
1174
01:19:53.399 --> 01:19:57.279
and a few minutes afterwards, hopefully
here on the VIP after show. Please
1175
01:19:57.319 --> 01:20:00.359
plug anything you want your Twitter account
obviously the documentar and then we'll do the
1176
01:20:00.359 --> 01:20:04.720
sign off from there. Absolutely,
wait and first let me thank you for
1177
01:20:04.760 --> 01:20:10.039
having me on. I appreciate the
opportunity to share my story. Very gracious
1178
01:20:10.039 --> 01:20:13.239
of you. And and you're very
you're very good at what you do,
1179
01:20:13.359 --> 01:20:15.960
and that's you know, that's the
reason why you've been doing It's nineteen eighty
1180
01:20:15.000 --> 01:20:19.560
seven. Thank you appreciate it.
If I need, I'd love to plug
1181
01:20:19.600 --> 01:20:25.479
my documentary my DVD. You can
find that on sale today at Zach Allen
1182
01:20:25.520 --> 01:20:28.680
dot com. Just click on Finding
Zach Allen. That's the name of the
1183
01:20:28.960 --> 01:20:35.840
of the beef being Finding Zach Allen. Other than that, please please,
1184
01:20:36.039 --> 01:20:42.560
I'm sorry I dropped out. Other
than that, please go to my social
1185
01:20:42.640 --> 01:20:47.720
media websites Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and you see me in the town
1186
01:20:47.760 --> 01:20:51.119
near you. Man, if you
haven't seen me, if you're only exposure
1187
01:20:51.159 --> 01:20:55.880
to me wrestling was from WW ten
years ago, then you're in for a
1188
01:20:55.920 --> 01:21:00.199
whole different can of worms when you
see me live. So please please come
1189
01:21:00.239 --> 01:21:03.840
check me out live and support and
buy merch and all that, but more
1190
01:21:03.840 --> 01:21:08.479
importantly, just come out and have
fun and be engaged in the and the
1191
01:21:08.560 --> 01:21:15.199
and the and the absolute process and
and uh awesomeness that is me wrestling.
1192
01:21:15.479 --> 01:21:18.720
So I certainly appreciate that way.
Thank you absolutely, Zach. Stick with
1193
01:21:18.800 --> 01:21:21.680
us on the other side of the
music, we'll do some special exclusive content
1194
01:21:21.720 --> 01:21:25.840
for VFP members, including some wrestlming
of thirty Talk and some follow up questions
1195
01:21:25.840 --> 01:21:28.479
from today's show. Zach, I
do want to say one more thing about
1196
01:21:28.520 --> 01:21:31.560
the documentary. One of the reasons, obviously the story of you is the
1197
01:21:31.560 --> 01:21:35.720
main selling point, no doubt about
it. And but one thing that's really
1198
01:21:35.720 --> 01:21:41.760
cool is just seeing Paul London and
Rhino and some of these wrestlers from in
1199
01:21:41.800 --> 01:21:45.359
the referee Jimmy Cordiras from that era, but really any are just talking about,
1200
01:21:45.640 --> 01:21:49.039
uh, the inner workings of wrestling
and locker room meticut and and how
1201
01:21:49.079 --> 01:21:54.359
wrestlers respond to what they see as
a violation of locker emcticut and and and
1202
01:21:54.479 --> 01:21:58.720
that kind of insight into how wrestlers
kind of manage themselves and get along and
1203
01:21:58.760 --> 01:22:01.439
police themselves and that kind of thing. It's that is kind of a sidebar
1204
01:22:01.560 --> 01:22:04.920
that's more universal than just your story, but you're the example of it.
1205
01:22:05.119 --> 01:22:09.800
That that inspired the conversation is fascinating. I mean, you the documentar,
1206
01:22:09.800 --> 01:22:12.760
you learn a lot about wrestling,
a lot about working matches. Uh,
1207
01:22:12.920 --> 01:22:15.439
mostly it's your story, but that
locker Medica thing is pretty interesting. So
1208
01:22:15.960 --> 01:22:18.399
check that out. Yeah yeah,
go teck yah, thank you, thank
1209
01:22:18.439 --> 01:22:21.800
you very much, Waite And and
and that's true. And what it's it's
1210
01:22:21.800 --> 01:22:26.319
still amazing what I've taken from wrestling, and I've applied it to other aspects
1211
01:22:26.319 --> 01:22:29.800
of my life. You know,
lessons I learned from w W, Lessons
1212
01:22:29.840 --> 01:22:31.239
I learned from wrestling as far as
I think it goes as far as how
1213
01:22:31.239 --> 01:22:35.760
to carry myself cod and you know, it's it was a trial and error
1214
01:22:36.279 --> 01:22:39.920
for a long time, but I'm
glad to be at the point now and
1215
01:22:40.039 --> 01:22:43.680
I've taken those lessons and I've applied
it to you know, my my current
1216
01:22:44.039 --> 01:22:45.920
stunt work right right right, the
stunts of movies and TV shows, and
1217
01:22:45.960 --> 01:22:51.199
I've I've applied it to the current
motivational speaking industry, you know. And
1218
01:22:51.399 --> 01:22:56.560
they're really universal lessons, so I
think anybody will find some interest in that.
1219
01:22:56.640 --> 01:23:00.119
And I think it's also a great
story to tell, uh, you
1220
01:23:00.159 --> 01:23:02.920
know, trials and tribulations, highs
and lows, and it's just uh,
1221
01:23:03.000 --> 01:23:06.399
you know, it's just me putting
putting my uh bearing my soul for the
1222
01:23:06.439 --> 01:23:11.359
world to see, which feels really, really scary. It feels really scary,
1223
01:23:11.600 --> 01:23:15.039
but also very very therapeutic in in
cathartic at the same time. I
1224
01:23:15.039 --> 01:23:19.880
know what that's like. You know. You local newspaper City Pages just did
1225
01:23:19.880 --> 01:23:23.680
a profile on on Me and the
Torch this week, and you know,
1226
01:23:23.720 --> 01:23:26.640
you do the interview, you spend
a couple hours of somebody talking about yourself
1227
01:23:26.680 --> 01:23:29.159
and then you know they're talking to
other people about you, and you don't
1228
01:23:29.159 --> 01:23:32.640
have control over the final final version, and uh yeah, and then and
1229
01:23:32.680 --> 01:23:34.640
then it comes out, you know, and you're you're reading it, you're
1230
01:23:34.680 --> 01:23:39.359
or in your case, watching the
documentary, and you you end up nervous
1231
01:23:39.399 --> 01:23:41.760
and then hopefully kind of happy,
you know, with what people said about
1232
01:23:41.800 --> 01:23:47.039
you. And yeah, man,
all I can do is just do it,
1233
01:23:47.960 --> 01:23:51.399
you know, and and then and
just do the next right thing and
1234
01:23:51.439 --> 01:23:56.079
everything will work out. And my
faith is pretty strong in that. So
1235
01:23:56.079 --> 01:23:59.199
so hopefully people get to see who
you know, who they need, whoever
1236
01:23:59.239 --> 01:24:01.520
needs to see it gets able to
see it. And it's cool to be
1237
01:24:01.560 --> 01:24:05.840
in a position to do that.
Absolutely very good. Thanks to our listeners
1238
01:24:05.920 --> 01:24:11.119
and supporters of p W torch Live
Cast here at PW torchlivecast dot com,
1239
01:24:11.159 --> 01:24:15.760
and of course all our readers at
PW torch dot com and more than anybody
1240
01:24:15.600 --> 01:24:20.920
of course our subscribers at PW torch
v I P. Thank you everybody for
1241
01:24:20.960 --> 01:24:25.880
your support. Thanks to Zach Gowen
for his generous time today being a great
1242
01:24:25.920 --> 01:24:28.640
guest. And on the other side
of the music, we have more the
1243
01:24:28.680 --> 01:24:32.000
IP exclusive conversation with Zach Gowen,
including some WrestleMania thirty talk. Here we
1244
01:24:32.039 --> 01:25:03.319
go. All right, we are
now at that VIP after show portion of
1245
01:25:03.399 --> 01:25:06.199
the programs dot cow and still with
me. Thank you Zach, by the
1246
01:25:06.239 --> 01:25:10.560
way for your time today. Anytime
I can be in the in the VIP
1247
01:25:10.760 --> 01:25:14.079
section, man, I jump out. Cool, well, welcome to it.
1248
01:25:14.159 --> 01:25:19.319
There will be a server coming over
taking you order for appetizers and you
1249
01:25:19.359 --> 01:25:23.319
know, beverage of your choice soon. So that's one of the pers me
1250
01:25:23.359 --> 01:25:29.960
in the VI area around alcoholic That's
why I was watching my language there exactly
1251
01:25:30.079 --> 01:25:34.119
making sure that I said a beverage. All right, let me uh.
1252
01:25:34.359 --> 01:25:38.760
I just got a Facebook message from
Travis Bryant, who was on site at
1253
01:25:38.800 --> 01:25:41.880
Rusmania and had a question about something, so I got that taken care of
1254
01:25:41.920 --> 01:25:45.000
during that twenty eight second play out
of the music from Kids on Bridges.
1255
01:25:45.079 --> 01:25:46.960
All right, Zach, all right, a couple couple of things. I
1256
01:25:47.000 --> 01:25:51.479
wanted to just get your thoughts in
general and a few guys that you were
1257
01:25:51.520 --> 01:25:55.720
around. And I know it's somewhat
hazy. It was a short time period,
1258
01:25:55.720 --> 01:25:58.359
it was a long time ago,
but working with brock Legenie you talk
1259
01:25:58.399 --> 01:26:00.359
to someone about it earlier in the
show. But I think with WrestleMania thirty
1260
01:26:00.359 --> 01:26:04.079
coming around this weekend, people are
kind of curious to try to figure out
1261
01:26:04.119 --> 01:26:08.000
brock Lesner. You know, he's
you know, people called Jeff Hardy the
1262
01:26:08.079 --> 01:26:11.520
Enegama. I think brock Lesner in
certain ways is too because he was a
1263
01:26:11.560 --> 01:26:15.439
guy who got so much fame so
early in his WWE run, and you
1264
01:26:15.479 --> 01:26:16.720
were around for that. You know, when he was moving to the top
1265
01:26:16.720 --> 01:26:21.159
of the card very early in his
career. He had the NCAA Heavyweight Championship
1266
01:26:21.159 --> 01:26:25.359
credentials that helped move him quickly.
He went through OVW, which you did
1267
01:26:25.359 --> 01:26:27.800
not. I mean, there were
some differences there, but he was somebody
1268
01:26:27.800 --> 01:26:30.920
early on who not only was getting
a big push but in his own way,
1269
01:26:31.039 --> 01:26:34.079
alienating himself a little bit from the
rest of the locker room, although
1270
01:26:34.119 --> 01:26:39.039
that mostly came in two thousand and
four when he made it really clear that
1271
01:26:39.079 --> 01:26:42.000
he didn't like traveling in airports and
and you know, he's kind of coming
1272
01:26:42.000 --> 01:26:45.640
to an end. But what was
Brock like in contrasting to John Cena.
1273
01:26:45.720 --> 01:26:48.600
Did you think he had the chance
to be a locker room leader or somebody
1274
01:26:48.600 --> 01:26:51.439
who would stick around for a long
time or could you kind of tell there
1275
01:26:51.439 --> 01:26:57.920
were signs that this guy's gifted,
but maybe not committed, oh one hundred
1276
01:26:57.960 --> 01:27:02.560
percent and not not committed. No, because Brock, if Brock is one
1277
01:27:02.600 --> 01:27:06.000
thing, he's committed no matter what
he does, if he's doing any people,
1278
01:27:06.000 --> 01:27:09.880
puts his heart and soul into it. And I love brock Lesner and
1279
01:27:09.880 --> 01:27:14.319
I love working with Brock Lesner,
and I think it's it's it's kind of
1280
01:27:14.359 --> 01:27:18.079
bs kind of the backlash day that
he got and it's and it's along the
1281
01:27:18.119 --> 01:27:23.760
same lines from what I understand is
the what the Ultimate Warrior got. You
1282
01:27:23.840 --> 01:27:27.880
have to understand the culture in the
WW locker room is very much like a
1283
01:27:27.920 --> 01:27:33.079
fraternity, uh, And if you're
not actively engaged and involved with everything frat,
1284
01:27:33.479 --> 01:27:36.199
you know, uh, they're gonna
they're gonna kind of look at you
1285
01:27:36.520 --> 01:27:40.560
kind of funny. And Brock was
his own man. He was a very
1286
01:27:40.640 --> 01:27:46.159
quiet man. And he likes he
likes traveling alone, and he likes doing
1287
01:27:46.159 --> 01:27:49.600
his own thing, and and and
and I don't really see a problem with
1288
01:27:49.680 --> 01:27:54.880
that because as long as he's producing
on television and doing his job, who
1289
01:27:54.920 --> 01:27:57.199
cares what he does in his off
time, you know, as long as
1290
01:27:57.199 --> 01:28:01.159
it's not not anything illegal or he's
you know, killing somebody or something.
1291
01:28:01.239 --> 01:28:03.640
You know. But if he wants
to work out alone, if he wants
1292
01:28:03.680 --> 01:28:06.439
to eat alone, if he wants
to travel alone, then that he shouldn't
1293
01:28:06.479 --> 01:28:10.680
be like punished or look down on
for that. You know, that's just
1294
01:28:10.720 --> 01:28:15.159
a man's personality and for and he's
from what I understand and from you know,
1295
01:28:15.239 --> 01:28:18.840
my interactions with Brocks, he's just
he's just a good old boy man.
1296
01:28:19.079 --> 01:28:23.640
He likes hunting, you know,
and he likes the outdoors and and
1297
01:28:23.680 --> 01:28:26.279
he just you know that that's kind
of where he was born and raised.
1298
01:28:26.319 --> 01:28:31.600
And he just happens to be the
most freakishly uh insane athlete that I've ever
1299
01:28:31.680 --> 01:28:35.760
seen. But but yeah, so
that that was more Brocks deal. He
1300
01:28:36.159 --> 01:28:41.119
just kind of didn't really wasn't really
part of that whole culture. And I
1301
01:28:41.119 --> 01:28:44.439
don't think I don't see how you
can fault the man uh for not jumping
1302
01:28:44.479 --> 01:28:48.439
into that culture if it's not in
his personality working with him. I think
1303
01:28:48.439 --> 01:28:51.439
it was. Now it's starting to
blend in the documentary and what you said
1304
01:28:51.479 --> 01:28:56.119
on the show here. But was
was he somebody that when you worked with
1305
01:28:56.199 --> 01:28:59.279
him you felt you were in good
hands or did you felt feel that you
1306
01:28:59.359 --> 01:29:02.640
might have been in dangers because he's
so strong and could snap you in half
1307
01:29:02.920 --> 01:29:08.119
literally if he took his eye off
things for a minute. Yep. I
1308
01:29:08.199 --> 01:29:12.600
felt completely safe with Brock, and
I well, I attribute that to two
1309
01:29:12.640 --> 01:29:16.920
things. One his absolute professionalism and
his dedication to the to the craft.
1310
01:29:17.600 --> 01:29:21.680
And two I attribute that to being
young and dumb at twenty years old.
1311
01:29:23.640 --> 01:29:29.479
I don't know if I would agree
to everything that we did now, you
1312
01:29:29.479 --> 01:29:33.600
know, ten years ago, but
Brock took extremely great care of me.
1313
01:29:33.680 --> 01:29:38.479
An example of that is the match
we had. He power bombs me twice,
1314
01:29:39.760 --> 01:29:43.159
and the match called for him to
power bomb me three times, but
1315
01:29:43.239 --> 01:29:46.600
he felt after the second one that
I might be there's a chance that I
1316
01:29:46.680 --> 01:29:50.079
might be in some sort of danger. So he let me go. And
1317
01:29:50.159 --> 01:29:56.159
he always made sure that he took
care of the guys he was working with.
1318
01:29:56.239 --> 01:30:00.560
And that's got to be so difficult
because the Big Shows told me one
1319
01:30:00.600 --> 01:30:02.720
time, he said out of all
them, out of all of the guys
1320
01:30:03.119 --> 01:30:06.159
that the Big Show has wrestled,
he said that Brock Lessler was the strongest,
1321
01:30:06.800 --> 01:30:11.520
and you could feel that power when
Brock picks you up. It literally
1322
01:30:11.560 --> 01:30:14.359
felt like, Uh, if you
ride on the back of a horse,
1323
01:30:14.399 --> 01:30:16.359
you can feel like how strong the
horse is and I'll stay the horses.
1324
01:30:16.640 --> 01:30:19.840
That's exactly how it felt like an
animal. Uh, what was picking you
1325
01:30:19.960 --> 01:30:23.399
up? When when Brock picked you
up? Or if you're if you're driving
1326
01:30:23.439 --> 01:30:27.840
a hummer instead of a you know, a Toyota Prias, you know you
1327
01:30:28.000 --> 01:30:31.279
just tell me. You know,
some of us weighed have have successful UH
1328
01:30:31.439 --> 01:30:36.680
newsletters since nineteen eighty seven and can
afford hummers. Other of us I had
1329
01:30:36.680 --> 01:30:41.920
to think one time, I have
driven a Prius multiple times. I had
1330
01:30:41.920 --> 01:30:45.439
the chance to drive a hummer once
in a parade only because I had a
1331
01:30:45.439 --> 01:30:49.199
connection with with the Minnesota Timber was
But no I would I wouldn't be caught
1332
01:30:49.239 --> 01:30:55.880
driving a Hummer, So I just
think with with with apologies that he bet
1333
01:30:55.880 --> 01:30:58.560
TA members who are hummer owners,
I think it's a little embarrassing to be
1334
01:30:58.640 --> 01:31:02.159
driving a Humer around if if you're
not in whatever they're for. I don't
1335
01:31:02.159 --> 01:31:05.880
think it's for running to get groceries
or you know. I think the military
1336
01:31:06.000 --> 01:31:10.800
issued vehicles or initially that's what they
were made. Well, that's my point,
1337
01:31:10.920 --> 01:31:14.560
Like, I don't really know what
the real world uses other than you
1338
01:31:14.560 --> 01:31:15.880
know, walk around over compensating for
something. I don't know. I'm just
1339
01:31:15.960 --> 01:31:25.840
saying, all right, Every Sunday
night, catch Wrestling Night in America on
1340
01:31:25.880 --> 01:31:30.960
PW Torchdailycast dot Com, hosted by
me PW Torch calumnist Greg Parks. Each
1341
01:31:30.960 --> 01:31:32.760
week, I'll welcome a co host
from the Torch family to discuss the big
1342
01:31:32.800 --> 01:31:36.359
shows and pro wrestling, taking your
calls and emails. You can listen live
1343
01:31:36.399 --> 01:31:41.720
most week's beginning at eight pm Eastern
On Sunday nights with a WWE or Impact
1344
01:31:41.800 --> 01:31:44.199
pay per view, we go on
the air. At the conclusion of that
1345
01:31:44.239 --> 01:31:45.800
pay per view, you can listen
live, but of course the full show
1346
01:31:45.840 --> 01:31:49.920
is available for download on demand.
Anytime shortly after it airs. Visit PW
1347
01:31:50.000 --> 01:31:54.840
Torchdailycast dot com and click the live
stream link to find the next scheduled live
1348
01:31:54.880 --> 01:31:59.199
show link. Search PW Torch and
Apple Podcasts or your podcast app to subscribe
1349
01:31:59.239 --> 01:32:15.800
The Wrestling Nightmare Erica every Sunday tw
Torch Daily Cast dot com. Yeah,
1350
01:32:15.840 --> 01:32:20.520
okay, Chris Benwatt, you were
around him, Yeah, and obviously just
1351
01:32:20.640 --> 01:32:24.079
tragedy five and a half years I
think five and a half, six and
1352
01:32:24.039 --> 01:32:27.119
a half years go now on two
thousand and eight with with him and and
1353
01:32:27.399 --> 01:32:30.000
uh he snapped and and everybody knows
that story. Uh, what was your
1354
01:32:30.000 --> 01:32:33.159
impression of being around him for the
time that you were And was he on
1355
01:32:33.199 --> 01:32:35.560
the SMACKDOWNE brand when you were or
was he on the Row brand. I'm
1356
01:32:35.560 --> 01:32:40.039
trying to no, he was on
smack Fan. I used to drive him
1357
01:32:40.079 --> 01:32:43.520
around. I would drive him and
Eddie around. Yeah, I would because
1358
01:32:43.520 --> 01:32:46.880
they would because w W would give
me free rental cars. I think,
1359
01:32:46.920 --> 01:32:49.359
so like the guys would hop in
the car with me and get to know
1360
01:32:49.399 --> 01:32:54.319
everybody, which is kind of kind
of cool how they tried to, you
1361
01:32:54.359 --> 01:32:58.399
know, position that. But so
I would pick up Benoir and Eddie from
1362
01:32:58.399 --> 01:33:00.439
the airports and take him to there
and take him to the gym and stuff
1363
01:33:00.479 --> 01:33:06.119
like that. And and then while
it was always really uh nice but really
1364
01:33:06.199 --> 01:33:12.600
really quiet and kind of weird,
I think I think Paul London has more
1365
01:33:12.640 --> 01:33:15.840
stories about him, kind of like
flipping out sometimes. I yelled at me
1366
01:33:15.920 --> 01:33:19.399
one time for eating an egg mc
muffin, which, you know, kind
1367
01:33:19.399 --> 01:33:23.159
of looking back, I kind of
see his point, but at the time
1368
01:33:23.239 --> 01:33:28.479
I was, wait, what's the
point to it? Why would you Well,
1369
01:33:28.520 --> 01:33:30.760
the whole idea is that I'm not
I'm not I'm not taking wrestling seriously,
1370
01:33:30.800 --> 01:33:33.920
and I need to eat, you
know, like eg whites and eat
1371
01:33:34.239 --> 01:33:39.039
instead of like drive through mcguids,
you know, like I hate the negm
1372
01:33:39.159 --> 01:33:42.680
muffin. And I went to the
gym. But you had nineteen year old
1373
01:33:42.800 --> 01:33:45.479
you had nineteen year old metabolism.
Yeah, there's nothing I could eat.
1374
01:33:45.520 --> 01:33:48.800
There's nothing I could eat or drake
to change really changed my body too much
1375
01:33:48.840 --> 01:33:51.680
at the time. I could have
been a little more dedicated in the gym.
1376
01:33:53.039 --> 01:33:59.000
Yeah, but yeah, yeah,
yeah, it's certainly I certainly could
1377
01:33:59.039 --> 01:34:00.840
have. But but yeah, he
held at me for over an egmig muffin.
1378
01:34:01.680 --> 01:34:04.960
And I know that he Yeah,
Paul and has got a great story
1379
01:34:04.960 --> 01:34:09.840
about him kind of kind of going
nuts at at a restaurant. But it's
1380
01:34:09.840 --> 01:34:14.880
so sad man and I hate the
fact that he took his his child's life
1381
01:34:14.960 --> 01:34:20.680
and his wife's you know, life
with him, and I if anything can
1382
01:34:20.720 --> 01:34:25.000
come out of it, and I
think it's some great researchers coming out,
1383
01:34:25.800 --> 01:34:30.960
especially with christ Nowinsky, you know, talking about the concussions and the different
1384
01:34:30.000 --> 01:34:32.760
damage you know that the rest of
us put their body through. And I'm
1385
01:34:32.800 --> 01:34:38.359
so happy that we're kind of becoming
more educated on that and we're toning our
1386
01:34:38.359 --> 01:34:41.520
style down too, so we can
have you know, long careers, but
1387
01:34:41.600 --> 01:34:45.800
more importantly, we can have useful
lives after wrestling, which I ultimately is
1388
01:34:45.199 --> 01:34:48.920
much more important than whatever. You
know, seven or eight your run you
1389
01:34:48.960 --> 01:34:55.920
have on TVs? Were you were
you around for the locker room seminars or
1390
01:34:55.920 --> 01:34:59.159
did that come just right after your
time? No, I'm not sure what
1391
01:34:59.199 --> 01:35:01.000
that is. Okay, Yeah,
we've went on the VIP side. We've
1392
01:35:01.000 --> 01:35:03.560
been putting up some of my ten
years ago Keller hotlines this year, and
1393
01:35:03.640 --> 01:35:06.319
I've been talking about them. So
they would have been in early two thousand
1394
01:35:06.359 --> 01:35:11.399
and four that they they must have
started doing them then and they missed your
1395
01:35:11.399 --> 01:35:13.680
time. But yeah, they started
doing you're talking about adjusting the style.
1396
01:35:13.720 --> 01:35:15.640
It was really two thousand and four
was sort of the end of the attitude
1397
01:35:15.680 --> 01:35:21.199
era. I don't know how people
market officially, but the dinsk man started,
1398
01:35:21.199 --> 01:35:24.319
you know, holding meetings with wrestlers
in locker room and explaining, you
1399
01:35:24.359 --> 01:35:26.000
know, here, we're going to
do things different now. We're going to
1400
01:35:26.039 --> 01:35:29.279
be more careful. We're gonna make
what we do count. We're not going
1401
01:35:29.359 --> 01:35:31.800
to do things in excess that don't
count or that abuse our bodies, and
1402
01:35:32.079 --> 01:35:35.840
we want everybody on board with this. And they would bring up, much
1403
01:35:35.840 --> 01:35:39.199
to the snickering of the locker room, a lot of Triple Ahn, Michael's
1404
01:35:39.199 --> 01:35:42.800
matches, teacher's pets to show off
how everyone should work. But I wasn't
1405
01:35:42.840 --> 01:35:45.760
sure. Yeah, if that was
something that went back to the went back
1406
01:35:45.800 --> 01:35:48.760
to your time there. But they
should watch Sammy Zaye if they want to
1407
01:35:48.800 --> 01:35:53.119
learn how to work. Man,
how much have you seen of NXT?
1408
01:35:53.239 --> 01:35:58.680
Are you a big fan? I
watched the initial I watched a few things
1409
01:35:58.720 --> 01:36:01.399
on YouTube, yah, but then
I actually the initial offering on arrived on
1410
01:36:01.800 --> 01:36:06.199
the Yeah, the network, man
was god, blown away, blown away?
1411
01:36:06.199 --> 01:36:10.680
What an opportunity dose? Guys,
have you talked about sab Boo.
1412
01:36:10.720 --> 01:36:15.079
He's somebody who blew me away.
When he first started, he got one
1413
01:36:15.079 --> 01:36:16.920
of his first breaks. He was
working in Michigan independently. I remember him
1414
01:36:16.920 --> 01:36:20.520
mailing me publicity photo in a little
letter and you know, saying, hey,
1415
01:36:20.520 --> 01:36:23.199
you know, here's I think you
might have sent me a tape to
1416
01:36:24.279 --> 01:36:26.199
He's like, you know, here, here's here's what I do, because
1417
01:36:26.239 --> 01:36:28.840
he knew that he was doing something
special. In fact, Rob van Dam
1418
01:36:28.840 --> 01:36:30.000
did that. He's the one who
sent me a demo tape which is amazing
1419
01:36:30.279 --> 01:36:32.760
and his photo before he got a
break going. You know, here's you
1420
01:36:32.760 --> 01:36:34.680
know, spread the word, you
know, let let people know what you
1421
01:36:34.720 --> 01:36:38.640
think of this and that kind of
thing. Sabboo really blew me away.
1422
01:36:38.680 --> 01:36:41.920
But he came up to Minneapolis and
worked with Lightning Kid who Sean Waltman one
1423
01:36:41.960 --> 01:36:45.680
two three kid xpoc and did some
matches with him. And it was funny
1424
01:36:45.720 --> 01:36:48.039
in the documentary when you said that
you you I think you said of the
1425
01:36:48.039 --> 01:36:50.600
documentary it was just other research.
You talked about Saboo being and influence and
1426
01:36:50.600 --> 01:36:55.720
somebody who hadn't wrestled yet, but
want to. I I didn't realize until
1427
01:36:55.720 --> 01:36:59.079
you said that how much your style
does remind me of of sab Boo.
1428
01:36:59.159 --> 01:37:01.319
There's a lot of things that you'd
do that remind me Taboo. So I
1429
01:37:01.720 --> 01:37:04.319
was like, yeah, I can
see that that that absolutely is it?
1430
01:37:04.520 --> 01:37:09.079
What is it about Saboo that inspired
me to be a wrestler and style wise?
1431
01:37:09.680 --> 01:37:12.520
You know how much did you pattern
yourself off of them? Because I
1432
01:37:12.560 --> 01:37:15.920
was fifteen years old when I first
saw Saboo That's why. Yeah, you
1433
01:37:16.479 --> 01:37:19.800
put a fifteen year old boy who
was a huge wrestling fan who's only seen
1434
01:37:20.279 --> 01:37:27.079
ww WWF and w cwuh, and
you show him e CW for the first
1435
01:37:27.119 --> 01:37:30.720
time and you see Saboo doo a
triple jump monsalud in the opening montage and
1436
01:37:30.840 --> 01:37:32.520
tell me that you don't want to
know more about that guy. Uh.
1437
01:37:33.119 --> 01:37:39.520
Saboo captured me completely and totally at
a very young age, and that it
1438
01:37:39.600 --> 01:37:44.359
was there's four guys, man,
five guys actually, Uh Saboo, Rob
1439
01:37:44.439 --> 01:37:47.520
Van Dam, the Hardy Boys,
and Raymisterio. These were the guys that
1440
01:37:47.960 --> 01:37:51.560
made me want to do this for
a living, and I wanted to do
1441
01:37:51.720 --> 01:37:56.319
everything those guys did. Man,
because that that stuff, the stuff they
1442
01:37:56.520 --> 01:38:00.840
feel those guys were doing. And
then in the nineteen nineties, lou my
1443
01:38:00.079 --> 01:38:04.279
young, fragile, impressionable mind for
better or for worse man, that's that's
1444
01:38:04.359 --> 01:38:08.800
uh, I'll leave that for debate
later. But but yeah, when I
1445
01:38:08.840 --> 01:38:11.239
started, I wanted to be the
one like it's that moove for sure.
1446
01:38:11.800 --> 01:38:15.720
Yeah, it's cool. Were did
you get to be around Hide and Reich
1447
01:38:15.800 --> 01:38:18.720
at all? One of those brief
weird I had, right was cool man.
1448
01:38:19.039 --> 01:38:23.159
Yeah, he was a cool dude. I heard he was like a
1449
01:38:23.159 --> 01:38:26.720
really nice guy behind the scenes,
like incredibly nice, but just not not
1450
01:38:26.800 --> 01:38:30.760
particularly smooth in the ring. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know,
1451
01:38:30.039 --> 01:38:32.840
Uh, his stuff in the ring
is you know, that's that's that's
1452
01:38:32.880 --> 01:38:36.720
for whoever to judge. But yeah, but as far as my experience with
1453
01:38:36.800 --> 01:38:40.760
him, and there's nov w and
and and on the road with WV,
1454
01:38:40.920 --> 01:38:43.560
I thought he was a very sweet, sweet guy. He's a very nice
1455
01:38:43.560 --> 01:38:45.199
guy. He looked a little overwhelmed. He kind of looked like a like
1456
01:38:45.199 --> 01:38:48.319
a small town dude in the in
a big city, you know, kind
1457
01:38:48.319 --> 01:38:51.359
of had the that that look in
his eyes. But but I thought he's
1458
01:38:51.399 --> 01:38:55.720
a very sweet man, and I
hope he's doing well right now? Cool
1459
01:38:57.279 --> 01:39:00.760
the h you're around when JBL was
around, right? Yeah? Yeah?
1460
01:39:00.880 --> 01:39:04.079
Did did? Did Did you get
were you on the end of any ribbing
1461
01:39:04.079 --> 01:39:08.920
from him, the target end of
that? No? No, nobody ribbed
1462
01:39:08.960 --> 01:39:11.720
me. Yeah, yeah, nobody
ribbed me. I don't know if it
1463
01:39:12.239 --> 01:39:15.560
was. The idea was, uh, we can't. It's too kind of
1464
01:39:15.960 --> 01:39:18.680
a low blow to the one leg
a guy. Or because or because I
1465
01:39:18.720 --> 01:39:23.039
was rolling with Vince and and and
and Hogan, they didn't want to rib
1466
01:39:23.079 --> 01:39:26.680
me. But either way, I'm
glad they didn't. You know, I'm
1467
01:39:26.720 --> 01:39:30.840
sure it wouldn't have been too good
natured. But but no, JBL he
1468
01:39:30.000 --> 01:39:33.239
was, and I was. I
was afraid, dude, because I you
1469
01:39:33.279 --> 01:39:36.119
know, I grew up ritting reading
the Torch, so I knew about jb
1470
01:39:36.279 --> 01:39:41.079
L and the rumors you know,
around him and young guys, so you
1471
01:39:41.079 --> 01:39:43.840
know, he intimidated me. I
just I just tried to really stay out
1472
01:39:43.840 --> 01:39:45.319
of his way. And uh,
from what I remember, we didn't have
1473
01:39:45.399 --> 01:39:48.439
too many interactions. Yeah, good
for you, that's pretty good thing.
1474
01:39:48.920 --> 01:39:51.359
We didn't talk too much about your
interaction with Piper and Hogan, but I
1475
01:39:51.399 --> 01:39:56.000
mean, you talk about, you
know, being really young in the business,
1476
01:39:56.199 --> 01:40:00.000
and in just a matter of like
days, not even months, you
1477
01:40:00.079 --> 01:40:06.279
went from not even like entertaining the
notion of being on WWF television as you
1478
01:40:06.319 --> 01:40:10.720
know, interacting with Hogan and Piper
suddenly being there. And we've talked a
1479
01:40:10.760 --> 01:40:13.880
lot in enough about you know,
the mistakes you made as a young kid
1480
01:40:14.159 --> 01:40:16.439
in those situations. But looking back
on it now, how were Piper and
1481
01:40:16.479 --> 01:40:21.720
Hogan to work with, especially considering
the circumstance. They were absolutely amazing,
1482
01:40:23.279 --> 01:40:27.920
incredibly gracious. They helped me when
they didn't have to. They even took
1483
01:40:28.000 --> 01:40:30.159
extra time to talk to me and
and try to explain things to me.
1484
01:40:30.279 --> 01:40:34.359
And I can't think those two guys
enough. When when you know, when
1485
01:40:34.359 --> 01:40:41.199
anybody does something for somebody else,
especially when they don't have to to me,
1486
01:40:41.319 --> 01:40:45.199
that that deserves to be uh,
that's the commendable offense or an act,
1487
01:40:45.359 --> 01:40:49.880
you know. And I totally dude, Piper and Hogan, we're as
1488
01:40:49.920 --> 01:40:54.520
sweet as you can be. And
I recally I saw Piper like a year
1489
01:40:54.520 --> 01:40:58.720
ago at the gathering of the Juggalos
for the Insane compos scene. He of
1490
01:40:58.720 --> 01:41:00.319
course, yeah, of course,
I don't want to say of course but
1491
01:41:00.359 --> 01:41:03.600
he remembered me, and I wasn't
sure if he was going to, you
1492
01:41:03.600 --> 01:41:08.199
know, because that was such a
short period of time and in his illustrious
1493
01:41:08.560 --> 01:41:11.840
career. But he was very nice
and he remembered me, and we had
1494
01:41:11.840 --> 01:41:15.000
a nice conversation. But I haven't
seen I haven't seen Hogan Fins. Our
1495
01:41:15.039 --> 01:41:17.640
past haven't crossed. I'd be interesting
to see if he if he remember who
1496
01:41:17.680 --> 01:41:24.279
I am. I'd love the cross
passes Hempstones. Let's shift gears and talk
1497
01:41:24.319 --> 01:41:27.399
a little bit about wrestle any on
Sunday. I want you to elaborate a
1498
01:41:27.399 --> 01:41:29.920
little more. You've touched on it
a couple of times, but in terms
1499
01:41:29.960 --> 01:41:31.600
of thinking we're on the verge of
another boom period. I know you talk
1500
01:41:31.600 --> 01:41:34.279
about technology being part of that,
you know, entering a new way to
1501
01:41:34.359 --> 01:41:38.680
experience wrestling, a new way to
deliver it for fans, a cheaper way
1502
01:41:38.680 --> 01:41:42.479
to access a lot of premium content. What about talent? Who who when
1503
01:41:42.520 --> 01:41:45.000
you when you do make the time
to watch WWB these days especially you know
1504
01:41:45.000 --> 01:41:48.119
from the main roster here, who's
jumping out to you as as being the
1505
01:41:48.199 --> 01:41:57.560
leaders for that next big era?
Uh Den Ambrose, Uhlan Reins, Yeah,
1506
01:41:57.560 --> 01:42:04.079
Steph Rollins, the Shield's collectively know
this field. Uh. I see,
1507
01:42:04.119 --> 01:42:08.600
I see Dolf Ziegler being around for
a long time, Uh being a
1508
01:42:08.720 --> 01:42:13.000
you know may state at the top
of the card. Uh. But but
1509
01:42:13.079 --> 01:42:15.399
especially those those street guy I think
the USO's man, I think the USOS
1510
01:42:15.439 --> 01:42:20.000
might be onto something too. I'm
telling you, man that the guys now
1511
01:42:20.000 --> 01:42:23.560
are more over than they have been
in a long time. And I'm talking
1512
01:42:23.600 --> 01:42:28.279
about like the mid card and undercard
guys. Like there's Bray Wyatt Man like
1513
01:42:28.319 --> 01:42:30.840
he was an opportunity with him and
him and seen it right at WrestleMania.
1514
01:42:31.600 --> 01:42:36.640
Oh god, yeah that and what
an opportunity. Yeah, got a league
1515
01:42:36.720 --> 01:42:42.600
man. And he is. His
physical charisma, you know, matched only
1516
01:42:42.640 --> 01:42:47.720
by maybe Jake the Snake. He's
fun to watch, especially on the microphone.
1517
01:42:47.760 --> 01:42:50.640
Man, he's what a talent,
But there's so much tam stude.
1518
01:42:51.239 --> 01:42:57.520
Sam, He's vain. Man.
I'm telling you everybody who's watched samy' zay
1519
01:42:57.640 --> 01:43:00.199
knows knows how good this guy is. He's the best in the world.
1520
01:43:01.199 --> 01:43:06.239
He is. He connects with an
audience on a deeper level than most other
1521
01:43:06.279 --> 01:43:11.840
wrestlers just through his his physical acts
and and and how he emotes, you
1522
01:43:11.880 --> 01:43:14.920
know, and that stuff you can't
teach. Uh, that's stuff that you
1523
01:43:15.039 --> 01:43:18.279
can't teach in the NXD classroom,
how to connect with an audience. And
1524
01:43:18.279 --> 01:43:21.359
and Sammy's and is tapped into that, and he and he's been tapped into
1525
01:43:21.359 --> 01:43:26.199
that for a very long time.
So I still, Yeah, how much
1526
01:43:26.199 --> 01:43:28.600
of a chance have you had to
be around him? Uh? You know,
1527
01:43:28.640 --> 01:43:31.760
and I love you. He's he's
such a he's such a genuine he's
1528
01:43:31.760 --> 01:43:35.720
a genuine article. Uh. And
he's so goofy and his heart is one
1529
01:43:36.479 --> 01:43:41.720
pure gold, you know. Uh. And it's funny because that that that
1530
01:43:41.760 --> 01:43:44.880
doesn't really fit into the wrestling culture, and that rubs people the wrong way.
1531
01:43:45.239 --> 01:43:47.119
Uh sometimes in the past, it
has, I'm not sure about recently.
1532
01:43:47.159 --> 01:43:49.640
I'm sure it's you know, I'm
sure he's well liked by everybody.
1533
01:43:49.680 --> 01:43:55.319
But but yeah, he's just a
real he's a genuine article, the real
1534
01:43:55.399 --> 01:43:58.680
nice guy, you know, and
the guys you don't find too many guys
1535
01:43:58.720 --> 01:44:02.279
like that in the wrestling industry.
Thanks for downloading today's show. Take it
1536
01:44:02.319 --> 01:44:05.520
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1537
01:44:05.600 --> 01:44:10.800
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1538
01:44:10.840 --> 01:44:15.039
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01:44:15.039 --> 01:44:19.319
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01:44:19.319 --> 01:44:23.680
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01:44:23.720 --> 01:44:27.720
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1542
01:44:27.760 --> 01:44:30.960
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01:44:30.960 --> 01:44:35.920
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1544
01:44:36.159 --> 01:44:45.560
go vip well explain elaborate on that
that intrigued me. He wasn't enough part
1545
01:44:45.600 --> 01:44:47.159
of the repic culture got heat for
That'll elaborate on that For people who don't
1546
01:44:47.199 --> 01:44:51.199
understand what you're saying. There,
Uh what I mean And there's no specific
1547
01:44:51.439 --> 01:44:55.760
incident that I'm talking about, same
usaying, but I well, I know
1548
01:44:56.039 --> 01:44:58.479
him and seen have talked about it
when they first got the Ring of Honor,
1549
01:44:58.520 --> 01:45:01.079
and like, nobody really high take
Sammy's ames because he would just call
1550
01:45:01.119 --> 01:45:04.880
it. You start talking to you
like uh and and and and just you
1551
01:45:04.920 --> 01:45:08.720
know, and it's just stuff.
Like that would let people the wrong way
1552
01:45:08.800 --> 01:45:11.880
because there's a certain protocol you have
to do this first, and you have
1553
01:45:11.960 --> 01:45:15.720
to you know, let this guy
do that. And but he just comes
1554
01:45:15.800 --> 01:45:17.319
up and talks to you like he
like he's been a neighbor for you know,
1555
01:45:17.439 --> 01:45:20.319
forever. Uh. And I personally
like that, and I think we
1556
01:45:20.520 --> 01:45:23.760
more people like that in wrestling,
And that's kind of how I am.
1557
01:45:24.560 --> 01:45:27.600
And you know, I don't really
care because the fear of not being liked
1558
01:45:27.680 --> 01:45:30.600
is gone, which is which is
kind of a burden I had for a
1559
01:45:30.600 --> 01:45:32.840
long time. But uh, Sammy
Zing definitely has that. Man. He's
1560
01:45:32.880 --> 01:45:38.479
as a sweet, charismatic person.
And I hope uh uh all, I
1561
01:45:38.520 --> 01:45:41.439
hope, I hope. I hope
they give him the world and I hope
1562
01:45:41.640 --> 01:45:45.239
I hope he runs with it because
he deserves it. Do you have any
1563
01:45:45.239 --> 01:45:49.000
predictions for the Daniel Bryant Triple h
match and the main event thereafter with Patista
1564
01:45:49.000 --> 01:45:53.079
and Randy Orton in the mix?
Yeah, Well, I see Daniel Brian
1565
01:45:53.159 --> 01:45:55.760
standing call at the end of Russel
landing with the belt above his head.
1566
01:45:56.039 --> 01:46:02.039
Uh. I think that's that's the
only way to really uh uh. You
1567
01:46:02.239 --> 01:46:09.039
have to pay off how much they've
been screwing him, you know. And
1568
01:46:09.039 --> 01:46:12.119
and and it's so great because that
plays in the real life too, you
1569
01:46:12.199 --> 01:46:15.479
know. And it's and it's it's
and it's played into real life for for
1570
01:46:15.640 --> 01:46:19.640
years when he initially got fired for
that tie incident. And Daniel Brian is
1571
01:46:20.359 --> 01:46:25.399
a guy like Sammy's Zame that just
connects with the crowds and you and again,
1572
01:46:25.439 --> 01:46:30.600
you can't teach that. And how
much they've they've they've asked for him
1573
01:46:30.680 --> 01:46:33.600
right for the past year and and
and given him opportunities, and he kept
1574
01:46:33.600 --> 01:46:38.279
pulling the rug out from under him, which I think long term, I
1575
01:46:38.319 --> 01:46:41.640
think it's a great thing because that
just that just got the people more behind
1576
01:46:41.720 --> 01:46:44.479
him. But you have to pay
it off now because if you don't pay
1577
01:46:44.520 --> 01:46:47.399
it off now, you're gonna end
up losing all of that steam. And
1578
01:46:47.399 --> 01:46:51.319
and right now that the tea kettle
is boiling and they're gonna have to take
1579
01:46:51.319 --> 01:46:55.079
it off the off the stove,
you know, like it's it's it's hot
1580
01:46:55.199 --> 01:46:59.840
enough as it is already. Uh, they they had WrestleMania has to end
1581
01:47:00.119 --> 01:47:02.640
with Daniel Brian standing in the middle
of the ring holding that bubb above his
1582
01:47:02.720 --> 01:47:08.560
head. Yeah, I'm with you
too. Are you expecting a long match
1583
01:47:08.880 --> 01:47:12.159
and a high quality match with Daniel
Brian and Triple A true? Do you
1584
01:47:12.199 --> 01:47:15.319
think it'll be more of an angle
just to keep Daniel Brian fresh with the
1585
01:47:15.319 --> 01:47:17.760
crowd for the main event? I
mean you can make a case of both
1586
01:47:17.800 --> 01:47:23.000
ways for that. I know,
if it's as if it's a five minute
1587
01:47:23.039 --> 01:47:26.720
Daniel Brian squash, that would be
awesome, you know, the huge,
1588
01:47:26.840 --> 01:47:30.359
huge momentum and he just destroyed Triple
H going to the main event, and
1589
01:47:30.399 --> 01:47:32.840
then that match has all the false
finishes in the back and forth and the
1590
01:47:32.960 --> 01:47:36.560
Caesars, or do you have it
be a twenty minute epic you know,
1591
01:47:36.760 --> 01:47:41.840
with with with with Daniel Brian barely
barely squeezing him out, you know,
1592
01:47:41.920 --> 01:47:45.880
fighting for his life, you know, walking into the main event wounded uh
1593
01:47:45.000 --> 01:47:47.760
and still be you know, overcoming
those odds, you know what I mean.
1594
01:47:47.800 --> 01:47:51.560
So, like you can, let's
with's whatever's best man and WWE has
1595
01:47:51.560 --> 01:47:56.000
the best minds when it comes to
that, and they have the best minds
1596
01:47:56.359 --> 01:47:59.960
in production and have the best values. So so they're gonna take us on
1597
01:48:00.119 --> 01:48:03.319
journey. I'm excited to sit back
and watch because nobody really does it like
1598
01:48:03.520 --> 01:48:08.439
w W E. How about Undertaker
Brock you have a prediction on that.
1599
01:48:09.159 --> 01:48:11.800
Oh, that's gonna be awesome.
Man. That again, that's gonna be
1600
01:48:11.880 --> 01:48:15.039
a lot of w B production coming
into play, different camera angles, Uh,
1601
01:48:15.399 --> 01:48:19.359
lots of lots of smoking mirrors,
because let's face that Undertaker is is
1602
01:48:19.720 --> 01:48:25.359
hasn't wrestled in the year and and
and he's he's Undertaker, you know.
1603
01:48:27.119 --> 01:48:30.760
Uh, and Brock is a is
a part timer. But the thing about
1604
01:48:30.800 --> 01:48:33.199
Brock is that he, like I
said earlier, he's committed to everything.
1605
01:48:33.600 --> 01:48:38.720
Uh. So I expect a very
entertaining match. I expect lots of uh
1606
01:48:39.000 --> 01:48:43.000
lots of uh gimmickry, I guess
for lack of a better word. But
1607
01:48:43.199 --> 01:48:45.760
also they're going to keep the drama
high for it too. It's not just
1608
01:48:45.800 --> 01:48:49.720
gonna be just this crazy like spotfest
with like chairs and tables and all that
1609
01:48:49.840 --> 01:48:54.520
all that junk. They're gonna they're
gonna have like the the the story and
1610
01:48:54.560 --> 01:48:58.960
the emotion very high, and they're
gonna sprinkle in different things that's going to
1611
01:48:59.000 --> 01:49:01.840
add to that that emotion. So
I definitely look forward to that match.
1612
01:49:01.880 --> 01:49:06.560
Man. It's just it's gonna be
awes Yeah, I'm anticipating it more than
1613
01:49:06.600 --> 01:49:10.079
most. Some people are kind of
grumpy about it or I don't know what
1614
01:49:10.079 --> 01:49:13.359
it is. The hype kind of
disappointing, just because you know, Brock
1615
01:49:13.439 --> 01:49:15.439
I think acted a little too scared
to undertaker and the hype leaning up to
1616
01:49:15.439 --> 01:49:17.560
it. I think people wanted to
feel a little bit more that the streak
1617
01:49:17.640 --> 01:49:20.319
was at risk. Well, how
do you feel about the streak? Is
1618
01:49:20.359 --> 01:49:25.560
it something that should ever end?
Or or should it for sure end?
1619
01:49:25.880 --> 01:49:28.119
Where do you come down on that
one? We get asked that a lot.
1620
01:49:28.399 --> 01:49:32.800
No, it should never end.
It's too if one, it's too
1621
01:49:32.840 --> 01:49:36.960
much of a risk, I think. But if anybody breaks, it's gotta
1622
01:49:38.000 --> 01:49:42.560
be seen though, you know,
because seeing that like you can't have for
1623
01:49:42.640 --> 01:49:45.399
example, and you can't have like
Roman Reigns break it next year and then
1624
01:49:45.479 --> 01:49:49.279
Roman Reigns gets fired at the year
after, never to be seen again,
1625
01:49:49.600 --> 01:49:53.199
you know, like you know what
I mean, for example, like that,
1626
01:49:53.359 --> 01:49:57.039
that's not gonna happen Roman because obviously
you know, he's he's very talented
1627
01:49:57.039 --> 01:50:00.319
and he comes from a great family. But just for example, you know,
1628
01:50:00.039 --> 01:50:05.039
but I see, it's it's an
institution and and it's something and it's
1629
01:50:05.079 --> 01:50:09.439
it's an attraction man, Like,
once you feel the misteak, it's like,
1630
01:50:09.439 --> 01:50:11.760
what do you do? You know, like you have to you have
1631
01:50:11.880 --> 01:50:15.119
to. I don't know. I
just see them as keeping it forever.
1632
01:50:15.520 --> 01:50:18.199
I do too. Yeah, I
think retiring with it, with the streak
1633
01:50:18.199 --> 01:50:21.800
intact, makes the most sense unless
just the most perfect situation presents itself.
1634
01:50:23.159 --> 01:50:29.560
You know, where you're clearly transit
transitioning. You're you're transferring the the aura
1635
01:50:29.560 --> 01:50:32.359
of the streak to somebody who really
will benefit from it and fans won't resent
1636
01:50:32.439 --> 01:50:34.960
him for it. You know,
I think if somebody ended Takers streak,
1637
01:50:34.960 --> 01:50:38.319
it would almost be an albatross.
It'd be like, you room, something
1638
01:50:38.319 --> 01:50:41.399
that we look forward to every year, as opposed to like, wow,
1639
01:50:41.399 --> 01:50:45.079
I can't believe you won. It's
yeah, And that goes back to the
1640
01:50:45.159 --> 01:50:47.840
thing. It's it's it's it's an
institution basically at this point, you know,
1641
01:50:48.159 --> 01:50:51.399
like it's it's it's something that it's
like it's like spring training in baseball.
1642
01:50:51.439 --> 01:50:56.079
It's something, it's pictures and catchers
report, it's something we look forward
1643
01:50:56.119 --> 01:50:58.720
to, we look forward to every
year. You know, it's just something
1644
01:50:58.720 --> 01:51:00.640
that happens. So so I think
you have to kind of keep it.
1645
01:51:01.800 --> 01:51:05.560
Yeah, I did too. Final
question for you, are you intreauted all
1646
01:51:05.560 --> 01:51:09.680
by Sting versus undertakers of possibility or
do you think it's a little too late.
1647
01:51:12.680 --> 01:51:20.680
I don't know. I really don't
know. I think I think ww
1648
01:51:23.000 --> 01:51:26.000
you know, and it justn't gone
for so long, and I think that
1649
01:51:26.159 --> 01:51:30.000
it might be a little too late
to do that, to be able to
1650
01:51:30.039 --> 01:51:32.960
get to get it to where because
if we're watching it, and of course
1651
01:51:33.000 --> 01:51:35.439
i'd love to see it, and
I love to see sing in WW and
1652
01:51:35.439 --> 01:51:40.359
I think that'd be cool. But
if we're watching it, I'm just kind
1653
01:51:40.359 --> 01:51:43.279
of comparing it to like how cool
it would have been in like two thousand
1654
01:51:43.279 --> 01:51:45.800
and three, you know, to
like have like have like or two thousand
1655
01:51:45.800 --> 01:51:49.520
and two or right after ww got
bought out, you know, yeah,
1656
01:51:49.600 --> 01:51:53.319
because thing, this thing has been
in CNA for a long time. And
1657
01:51:55.319 --> 01:52:00.119
yeah, I don't know if stings, but if anybody can put Sting back
1658
01:52:00.119 --> 01:52:03.600
at that level of WWE and their
production, so I mean, if it's
1659
01:52:03.640 --> 01:52:06.720
and you know what WWS look at
the business side of things, you know,
1660
01:52:06.960 --> 01:52:12.399
the low release interesting DVD and I
don't know, man, like i'd
1661
01:52:12.479 --> 01:52:15.920
love to see it, and I'm
confident that if they go through with it,
1662
01:52:16.079 --> 01:52:19.239
WW, you can pull it off
very good. Yeah, I'm with
1663
01:52:19.319 --> 01:52:23.680
you. I'm intrigued. I worry
it's too late. If it happens.
1664
01:52:23.840 --> 01:52:26.479
If WW does a good job with
it, I'm all for it. But
1665
01:52:26.520 --> 01:52:28.119
I don't want to see it if
they don't do a good job, you
1666
01:52:28.119 --> 01:52:29.680
know what I mean, Like,
I don't want to see it just to
1667
01:52:29.800 --> 01:52:32.760
see it. So it's tough.
But anyway, VST members check out the
1668
01:52:32.800 --> 01:52:39.039
documentary. So many truth Martini is
great in it. Your mom is great
1669
01:52:39.039 --> 01:52:43.159
in it, Zach. You know, she h it's tough to be a
1670
01:52:43.199 --> 01:52:45.439
mom talking about your son going through
what you've been through. And I thought
1671
01:52:45.520 --> 01:52:48.520
she just came across tremendous in that. It's just a lot of fun Rhino,
1672
01:52:48.760 --> 01:52:51.000
you know, as a kind of
big brother father figure looking out for
1673
01:52:51.039 --> 01:52:54.800
you and trying to keep you on
the straight and narrow. It's a really
1674
01:52:54.800 --> 01:52:59.640
interesting documentary and I definitely recommend that
people check it out. And Zach,
1675
01:52:59.680 --> 01:53:01.039
thank you much. It's been a
pleasure talking to you for the first time,
1676
01:53:02.159 --> 01:53:05.680
and and your generous time with us
today, and and I know it's
1677
01:53:05.720 --> 01:53:10.000
an exciting time for you because you'll
start geting feedback on that documentary uh soon
1678
01:53:10.039 --> 01:53:12.000
too. And it's got to be
exciting to have your story out there and
1679
01:53:12.039 --> 01:53:15.840
just update people on whatever happened to
you if if they haven't been following you
1680
01:53:15.880 --> 01:53:17.640
on the indie scene and you know, any updates on the Internet that you've
1681
01:53:17.640 --> 01:53:20.600
done over the years. Very much. So, yeah, absolutely, And
1682
01:53:21.199 --> 01:53:25.640
it's great to you know, to
present my story. And that's why we
1683
01:53:25.720 --> 01:53:29.800
named it Finding Zach Gollan man because
uh, because one people want to know
1684
01:53:29.840 --> 01:53:33.119
what happened to me and two,
uh, I had to lose everything to
1685
01:53:33.159 --> 01:53:36.760
find myself. And that's and that's
kind of like the point we're at now,
1686
01:53:36.880 --> 01:53:41.279
you know, and having this conversation. And again, you can check
1687
01:53:41.279 --> 01:53:44.640
out the DVD attack Allen dot com
quick on Finding Zach Gollen for all the
1688
01:53:44.720 --> 01:53:46.520
info. Uh, you go to
the Torch website. We'll have the trailer
1689
01:53:46.600 --> 01:53:51.119
up there and and way, I
certainly appreciate your time and and energy and
1690
01:53:51.359 --> 01:53:55.520
getting the word out man, because
this is this is how it's done.
1691
01:53:55.520 --> 01:53:59.039
I don't have TV uh commercial money
and I don't have you know, I
1692
01:53:59.079 --> 01:54:01.560
can't I can't buy this on on
Monday Night raw to let people know.
1693
01:54:01.680 --> 01:54:08.640
So so you know, helping me
out is very very kind and generous of
1694
01:54:08.680 --> 01:54:11.800
you. And like I said before, I'm a big fan of you and
1695
01:54:12.079 --> 01:54:15.840
I've loved the Torch for a long
time and I'll continue supporting you guys.
1696
01:54:16.239 --> 01:54:19.239
Zach, thank you very much.
It's been my pleasure. I'm so glad
1697
01:54:19.279 --> 01:54:21.760
you've landed where you have and had
the outlook that you have and made it
1698
01:54:21.760 --> 01:54:25.600
through what you made it through to
tell your story to us and in that
1699
01:54:25.640 --> 01:54:29.479
documentary so than yeah, yeah,
of course, yeah, yeah, you're
1700
01:54:29.520 --> 01:54:32.479
more than anyone other than your mom
probably. Yeah. Yeah, great,
1701
01:54:32.760 --> 01:54:36.720
Thanks Zach. Thanks vi IP members
and until next time. That'll be Sunday
1702
01:54:36.760 --> 01:54:40.560
night. Well for live cast listeners. Live will be on Sunday night.
1703
01:54:40.640 --> 01:54:44.119
James Called and Greg Park Wait Keller
and behalf is that Gowan signing off?
1704
01:55:00.840 --> 01:55:04.359
Invite you to email the show with
feedback or questions or comments. That email
1705
01:55:04.359 --> 01:55:12.079
address is Wadekeller Podcast at ptwtorch dot
com. That's Wadkeller Podcast at pwtorch dot
1706
01:55:12.119 --> 01:55:15.319
com. Also welcome your feedback on
Twitter even follow us on Twitter at PW
1707
01:55:15.359 --> 01:55:21.479
Torch and follow me at the Wadekeller
That's at PW Torch and at the Wadekeller.
1708
01:55:24.439 --> 01:55:28.479
Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me Jason Powell host
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01:55:28.560 --> 01:55:31.760
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1710
01:55:31.800 --> 01:55:35.039
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01:55:40.399 --> 01:55:45.079
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01:55:55.760 --> 01:55:59.560
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1716
01:55:59.600 --> 01:56:03.039
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01:56:03.119 --> 01:56:09.319
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1720
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1721
01:56:21.520 --> 01:56:27.119
Will come join me Alan fourrel Over
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1722
01:56:27.279 --> 01:56:30.800
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1723
01:56:30.840 --> 01:56:35.439
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1724
01:56:35.800 --> 01:56:41.079
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1725
01:56:41.119 --> 01:56:45.319
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1726
01:56:45.560 --> 01:56:49.880
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1727
01:56:49.880 --> 01:56:54.199
our guests will join me to talk
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1728
01:56:54.239 --> 01:56:58.439
attendance for. We love variety and
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1729
01:56:58.479 --> 01:57:03.159
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01:57:03.239 --> 01:57:09.520
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1731
01:57:09.840 --> 01:57:15.840
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1732
01:57:15.000 --> 01:57:19.520
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1733
01:57:19.520 --> 01:57:25.039
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1734
01:57:25.079 --> 01:57:28.359
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01:57:46.560 --> 01:57:50.840
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01:57:54.039 --> 01:58:00.960
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you so much. In twenty twelve,
1743
01:58:00.159 --> 01:58:05.560
NXT transitioned into the developmental system and
ultimately the brand you see today. On
1744
01:58:05.600 --> 01:58:12.039
the Torch VIP podcast NXT Eight Years
Back, we'll be taking a weekly look
1745
01:58:12.079 --> 01:58:16.159
at this page in NXT's early history. Join Kelly Wells and me Tom Stout
1746
01:58:16.239 --> 01:58:20.600
from PWT Talks NXT every Saturday as
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1747
01:58:20.800 --> 01:58:26.279
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1748
01:58:26.359 --> 01:58:30.479
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01:58:30.479 --> 01:58:34.039
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1755
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1760
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