WEBVTT
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00:00:09.086Are you not entertained?
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00:00:23.786What the He's Dave, and I'm Dallas, and this is Ventertainment.
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00:00:29.365We have opinions on just about everything.
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00:00:31.594Sometimes those opinions are spot on.
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00:00:35.792Sometimes they go down easier with a glass of wine.
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00:00:42.731This is Ventu Tangment.
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00:00:44.393The wine.
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00:00:56.119Welcome everyone to Vintertainment.
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00:00:59.002This is the podcast where we pair wine with entertainment.
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00:01:01.204It's as simple as that.
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00:01:06.447And today we are joined by a very special guest, Chris McGilvre.
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00:01:24.128Make sure you listen to our Vinterview with Chris to learn about the his history as a filmmaker and his recently released feature-length documentary, Eden, all about the Mount Eden Vineyard and winery in the Santa Cruz Mountains and the impact that owning and managing a vineyard has had on multiple generations within a single family.
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00:01:28.280It's a wine documentary that starts out somewhat typical, but then cuts deeper than most.
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00:01:41.986It was a great conversation, and you will definitely want to listen to it and watch Eden from 2024, currently streaming on Plex for free in the States, but also available to rent or buy on Apple TV or YouTube.
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00:01:46.058And on that note, Chris, welcome to the main venturtainment segment.
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00:01:50.140And are you ready to talk wine and the western to end all western?
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00:01:52.400man, you have no idea.
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00:01:53.820I've been waiting for this one.
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00:01:57.403This is literally one of my top five favorite movies.
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00:02:00.686So um this is gonna be a blast.
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00:02:01.528Beautiful.
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00:02:08.662But before we get to the movie, first we have to challenge you with our wine trivia question of the week.
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00:02:09.906All right, let's do it man.
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00:02:11.352Let's see what happens here.
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00:02:12.602Let's what happens.
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00:02:40.610So, uh on theme with with a Western, uh when Spanish settlers originally came to the New World and traveled up through Mexico and into Southern California, they brought with them their Listan Prieto, which is what they called it in Spain, aka País in Chile, or aka Criolla Chica in Argentina, aka the Mission Grape in America, a wine grape they used to make sacramental wine and which they planted all throughout.
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00:02:41.729The West.
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00:02:45.824Now, this was never considered to be a grape that produced particularly good fine wine.
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00:02:53.218Uh missionaries did, however, make incredible fortified dessert wine called Angelica with it.
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00:02:57.441A style of dessert wine that is still made today.
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00:03:07.187The oldest mission grape vine in America is a tree-like monstrosity of a vine called the mother vine or the vina madre.
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00:03:10.039this vine is still.
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00:03:16.074Producing fruit of about half a barrel's worth and is estimated to be how old?
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00:03:19.258Is it A 100 plus years old?
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00:03:30.108B 130 plus years old, C 170 plus years old, or D 250 plus years old.
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00:03:31.849What do we think?
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00:03:34.681I I I have my answer.
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00:03:35.914What are you thinking?
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00:03:37.920I I I got some ideas.
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00:03:44.503So I know it's older than a hundred years because there's a lot of old vine Zinfandel that is a hundred years.
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00:03:49.836There's even some old vine Zinfandel in California that is a hundred and thirty years.
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00:03:52.987So I'm I'm blowing past those two.
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00:03:53.919All right.
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00:03:57.060Um as America, right?
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00:03:59.110Are we talking about the United States of America?
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00:04:00.939Are we talking about America of the continent?
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00:04:02.983America the Cont Right.
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00:04:06.461America we can go with America of the continent, actually.
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00:04:07.528Test.
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00:04:08.783Is it in Chile?
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00:04:10.855Is that where where we're No, it's here.
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00:04:12.116It's here in California.
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00:04:15.385So it actually is in California.
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00:04:17.824It's in interesting.
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00:04:20.213It's been Los Angeles probably.
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00:04:24.858I could be there in about fifteen minutes from where I am right now.
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00:04:27.153okay.
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00:04:35.994And so like we're talking Yeah, fun fact in the eighteen hundreds and seventeen hundreds, LA was the center of California wine.
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00:04:37.357Long before Napa was.
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00:04:37.985Yeah, yeah.
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00:04:43.689Like we're we're talking it's own rooted, so it's gotta be in sand or Philoxer would have killed it.
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00:04:47.946So damn, is it a hundred and seventy or is it two fifty?
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00:04:57.365I mean, God, if we're talking two fifty, I mean that thing I can't Yeah, This year is America's two hundred fiftieth celebration.
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00:04:58.653Seventeen seventy six.
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00:05:08.490So there you how nobody such a milestone by the way, but when you mention it to people everyone's like, shit, yeah I know that, but I'm sort of a good kid.
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00:05:09.314like, yeah.
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00:05:09.793right.
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00:05:21.901Well, and everyone's trying to avoid thinking about the MMA match that's going to happen at the White House in in honor of the two hundred fiftieth anniversary We're like, you know what, let's just pretend this isn't happening right now.
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00:05:25.850This is not what this happened, you know, that's right years ago.
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00:05:27.774Or maybe it's gonna happen in the future.
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00:05:35.059I'm not gonna Okay, so is it yeah, is it from s is it two fifty or is it a hundred and seventy?
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00:05:37.509Yeah.
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00:05:42.346Yeah, my final answer is I'm gonna say it's a hundred and seventy.
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00:05:44.322It's a hundred and seventy plus years old.
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00:05:45.694I'm going two fifty.
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00:05:47.826Dallas is going 250.
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00:05:48.177Yeah.
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00:05:50.226Chris is going 170.
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00:05:52.569All right.
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00:06:00.882So there is a winery that has 170 plus year old uh Michigan grape vines.
00:06:00.882 -->
00:06:08.834Brock Sellers, based out of Berkeley, California, makes a regular batch of Angelica every year from 170 plus year old vines.
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00:06:13.016You can currently purchase half bottles for fifty-eight dollars a pop, which isn't bad.
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00:06:15.648Angelica is never cheap, my friends.
00:06:15.778 -->
00:06:17.338it's a fortified dessert wine.
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00:06:22.281I have a half bottle of the Angelica from Comekula that cost me $75.
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00:06:27.379like ten years ago even, uh, it cost seventy-five dollars and I still haven't opened it.
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00:06:42.048But for $58, you can get 170 plus year old vines from Brock Sellers B R O C But you can watch the documentary on the oldest vine on Som TV about the 250 plus year old vine.
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00:06:42.468Wow.
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00:06:52.043You know the full story of this mother vine and the group of Californians that have been tending to it in recent days, so it just kind of grew wild for a long, long time, untended to.
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00:06:57.646But this group recently in the LA area were absolutely blown away by its size and resilience.
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00:07:02.529They knew they had to try to make wine again from this historic vine.
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00:07:06.934So Patrick Kelly was tasked with assessing the vine, pruning it, and creating wine from its grapes.
00:07:06.934 -->
00:07:15.440He jokes that as the leading expert on this age of vine, of which there are only six in all of existence in the world ah at this type of age.
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00:07:21.644I said thanks to Philoxera, there is not there are not many out there anymore that go quite this long.
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00:07:26.879He used his farming skills to teach the groundskeepers how to properly maintain the vine for future harvests.
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00:07:31.672As it turns out, the vine was very healthy despite its relative neglect in age.
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00:07:41.242From fires to earthquakes, this fine scene, all of California history for the most It was healthy because it wasn't messed with fucked with Was not messed with.
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00:07:42.122I know.
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00:07:47.966So they produced they produced one round uh of of wine from this vine.
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00:07:52.500Um you can always find these Angelica when they produce it.
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00:07:53.529They only produce it once in a while.
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00:07:55.750Like I said, it's roughly half a barrel's worth.
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00:07:57.432It's very hard to get.
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00:08:00.314But it is Cavaletti Vineyards dot com.
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00:08:07.134Cavaletti C A V A L E T T I B uh T T I Vineyards dot com.
00:08:07.134 -->
00:08:17.660Um and their but their second round, their first round, uh there wasn't there was even less of the wine, but the second round it actually the grapes were even bigger, healthier, better color, and more.
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00:08:24.403It started and now that they're tending to it, it's actually getting even healthier and producing a little bit more fruit.
00:08:24.403 -->
00:08:26.985So 250 plus drone vines.
00:08:26.985 -->
00:08:30.747And if you folks have never tried Angelica, go seek it out.
00:08:30.747 -->
00:08:34.539It is a beautiful, beautiful dessert wine.
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00:08:37.639fortified and oxidized like autonomy port type of a thing.
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00:08:41.905So you get a lot of those like big dried fruits, maple, coffee.
00:08:41.905 -->
00:08:46.429It's it's syrup in a glass, and it is just magnificent.
00:08:46.429 -->
00:08:49.993So everyone, go take a look for those bad boys.
00:08:49.994 -->
00:08:54.638And on that note, all right, Chris, on to business.
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00:08:58.611Tell our listeners what movie you chose to talk about today and why.
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00:09:08.769Well, I definitely chose Once Upon a Time in the West, uh, which is like the unsung hero of Sergio Leone's films.
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00:09:13.393Most people, you say Sergio Leone, they instantly think of the good, the bad, and the ugly.
00:09:13.393 -->
00:09:15.794You know, maybe they'll go to Fistful of Dollars.
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00:09:16.875That was the first one.
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00:09:21.918Both amazing, iconic movies that I absolutely love.
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00:09:25.676But like Once Upon a Time in the West is the mother load.
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00:09:30.586Because it's like literally it was the movie after he made his original trilogy.
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00:09:37.660He wanted to make his gangster picture, what became once upon a time in America, that he didn't make until nineteen eighty-four.
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00:09:40.458We're talking like this is sixteen years before that.
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00:09:42.562He didn't even want to make a Western anymore.
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00:09:45.153But the studio was like, You're the Western guy.
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00:09:46.575You gotta make a Western.
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00:09:49.796So he's like, All right, if we're gonna do this, we are gonna do it.
00:09:49.796 -->
00:09:53.720And so he actually took Dario Argento.
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00:09:56.692Who was like the master of Italian horror.
00:09:56.692 -->
00:09:56.913Yeah.
00:09:56.913 -->
00:10:07.600And Bernardo Bertolucci, who is a very, very famous Italian filmmaker, um, you know, known for like Last Tango in Paris, Last Emperor, bunch of other, you know, great stuff.
00:10:08.022 -->
00:10:11.183the conversation, or not the conformist.
00:10:12.065 -->
00:10:13.025Yeah.
00:10:13.177 -->
00:10:13.859Conformous.
00:10:13.859 -->
00:10:15.953Oh just fucking fantastic though.
00:10:15.953 -->
00:10:17.034So beautiful.
00:10:17.034 -->
00:10:20.758All that Vittorio Serraro cinematography.
00:10:20.758 -->
00:10:21.899It's so good.
00:10:21.899 -->
00:10:31.056So anyway, they all three of them got together and locked themselves in like the cinema vault and watched as many classic American westerns as they could.
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00:10:37.510All the John Ford stuff they could get a hold on, and you know, Howard Hawks, all the great stuff.
00:10:37.552 -->
00:10:40.313And this is what they came out with.
00:10:40.313 -->
00:10:45.798And so I'm like, it's such an amazing.
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00:10:55.482operatic, epic, sweeping, cinematic statement of what a Western should be.
00:10:55.482 -->
00:10:57.432So that's why I chose a man.
00:10:57.432 -->
00:10:58.183Good.
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00:11:02.732I will say, uh interestingly, I've I've always loved this movie.
00:11:02.732 -->
00:11:06.975This was only I think this was only my second time seeing it.
00:11:06.975 -->
00:11:14.759But the first time I saw it, I was just like, this is I owned it on digital already because I was just like at one point I ran across it online.
00:11:14.759 -->
00:11:16.090You I was like, that's a no-brainer.
00:11:16.090 -->
00:11:16.799I want to own that.
00:11:16.799 -->
00:11:18.902That is like an amazing Western.
00:11:18.902 -->
00:11:21.883I do not like his Clint Eastwood movies.
00:11:23.644 -->
00:11:26.275I do not I'm not a fan of any of them.
00:11:26.275 -->
00:11:31.528I have tried So many times to get into them and I I I kind of authentically hate them.
00:11:31.528 -->
00:11:33.970I just can cannot get into them at all.
00:11:33.970 -->
00:11:37.331But this movie rings every bell for me.
00:11:37.331 -->
00:11:46.597Um but it was kind of a bit of an antithesis to what he wa he had been doing before, not entirely, but you know, it was a bit of an evolution.
00:11:46.597 -->
00:11:47.618But yeah.
00:11:47.864 -->
00:11:49.235Definitely an evolution.
00:11:49.235 -->
00:11:58.729And I mean, like, seriously, this film goes down amongst filmmakers as being potentially the greatest opening sequence of all time.
00:11:58.729 -->
00:12:02.291It's I mean it's kinda it's hard to beat.
00:12:02.291 -->
00:12:04.091It is like the greatest sound design.
00:12:04.091 -->
00:12:11.215It's like it's such an unbelievably awesome, epic, slow build, open.
00:12:11.215 -->
00:12:12.586Yeah.
00:12:12.960 -->
00:12:21.414Every frame, every look, every bit of lighting cutting across a person eye person's eyes beneath the brim of their hat.
00:12:21.926 -->
00:12:23.756you can smell this film.
00:12:23.756 -->
00:12:25.107That's what's also so interesting.
00:12:25.107 -->
00:12:30.951You can fucking smell this film because all the other sensory input is so you know, so acute.
00:12:30.977 -->
00:12:34.561Well, and it takes this time to make sure you're noticing all the sensory input, right?
00:12:34.561 -->
00:12:36.342Which is part of that slow pace.
00:12:36.342 -->
00:12:49.072And you know, when we talked about Chris's documentary, we talked about how early on he sets the entire tone and pacing, like what to expect from this documentary with a couple of choices.
00:12:49.072 -->
00:12:52.576Go listen to that, you venture view to to hear all the details.
00:12:52.576 -->
00:13:00.275But this similarly, like this opening sequence, it's one of the best opening sequences of all time, but it also the movie doesn't change.
00:13:00.275 -->
00:13:00.775After that.
00:13:00.775 -->
00:13:02.158This is what the movie is.
00:13:02.158 -->
00:13:05.770It's set it you know exactly what you're getting once this opening sequence is done.
00:13:05.770 -->
00:13:09.933They're like, and this is what the next two and a half hours are going to be, buckle up.
00:13:10.028 -->
00:13:10.504Yeah.
00:13:10.504 -->
00:13:15.274It totally is the most consistent thing that Sergio Leone ever did.
00:13:15.274 -->
00:13:19.350I'm a you know, as a filmmaker I always look at films for inspiration.
00:13:19.350 -->
00:13:22.244That's what I you know, get excited about.
00:13:22.244 -->
00:13:29.129And so a lot of times I actually love movies because of particular sequences or scenes that stick with me.
00:13:29.129 -->
00:13:35.895Certain uses of cinematic technique that really jumps out at me more than even loving it as a whole.
00:13:35.895 -->
00:13:40.610And you know, so I'm always very forgiving about the whole.
00:13:40.610 -->
00:13:47.990And I will totally admit Sergio Leone is notorious for like having a bunch of great scenes and sequences.
00:13:47.990 -->
00:13:53.741And then following it with a bunch of crappy ones, which is probably why you don't like the Quit Eastwood ones.
00:13:53.741 -->
00:13:57.273Because the good, the bad, and the ugly is super sloppy, man.
00:13:57.273 -->
00:14:01.195It's messy, but like the stuff that hits is so good.
00:14:01.195 -->
00:14:11.745And this one is the much more toned down, streamlined, you know, purposeful intent film.
00:14:11.745 -->
00:14:11.998Right.
00:14:11.998 -->
00:14:13.746Yeah, nothing is sloppy here.
00:14:13.971 -->
00:14:14.381No.
00:14:14.381 -->
00:14:21.145And it's you know, one of the things about that is one of the big parts of obviously Sergio Leone is Ennio Morricone's score.
00:14:21.145 -->
00:14:24.366You know, scored every single one of his, you know, films.
00:14:24.626 -->
00:14:38.624And it's always you always remember that music to the point where good, the bad, and the ugly, it's just like, you know, you put that in any kind of film and everybody knows that it's like a Western show.
00:14:40.331 -->
00:14:41.481Yep.
00:14:42.344 -->
00:14:44.013It's just like the comedy beat.
00:14:44.013 -->
00:14:50.691So this one he actually had Ennio Morcone write the score before they actually filmed it.
00:14:50.691 -->
00:14:58.667So they had the score on the set, and so they were able to time every single one of those sequences to it.
00:14:58.667 -->
00:15:20.432So when you watch it from that perspective, you can see why it's such a perfect marriage of music and imagery, the timing, like the the reveal of You know, Henry Fonda's character as the villain is the most epically, perfectly timed imagery and musical composition that you are going to encounter.
00:15:20.432 -->
00:15:22.774It's so amazing.
00:15:22.774 -->
00:15:38.648That like wide shot where they come out of the bushes and they start walking towards camera, and you still don't know what's Henry Fonda, and then the music is like building and building, and the swell hits on the actual dolly shot, like, you know, orbital that swings around.
00:15:38.648 -->
00:15:40.740To reveal Henry Fonda's face.
00:15:40.740 -->
00:15:46.804It is like the most impeccably cinematic thing.
00:15:46.804 -->
00:15:48.354You see it's so cool.
00:15:48.354 -->
00:15:48.624Yeah.
00:15:48.624 -->
00:16:02.782If you wanted if you wanted to uh this film does what I love about it is if someone asked me to show them a singular film of the capacity for filmmaking of filmmaking, it would be this one.
00:16:02.782 -->
00:16:12.837Because everything about it, like the immersive sound, which uh to correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't a a major thing back in the day when this was no, yeah.
00:16:12.837 -->
00:16:14.388It wasn't at all.
00:16:14.388 -->
00:16:21.440And so the immersive sound, the idea of the birds and you can hear him when he's out in the dark smoking a cigarette.
00:16:21.440 -->
00:16:23.836You can hear the ash of the cigarette.
00:16:23.836 -->
00:16:25.399It's just it's fuck fucking fantastic.
00:16:25.399 -->
00:16:26.669Yeah fantastic.
00:16:27.671 -->
00:16:32.092And it was a bit of a dream of Morricone to have the score written before he shot the movie.
00:16:32.092 -->
00:16:40.275That was something he had always wanted to do, but never it was never a reality, except for apparently the final scenes of Good, the Bad and the Ugly.
00:16:40.275 -->
00:16:41.937He was able to get that done.
00:16:41.937 -->
00:16:46.178And so he shot those final scenes to already made music.
00:16:46.178 -->
00:16:55.230But this was the first movie where he was able to he had the time, he had the budget, he had the luxury of going to Morricone and like They just worked it all out in advance.
00:16:55.230 -->
00:16:57.692And then they were able to shoot all those sequences.
00:16:57.692 -->
00:16:59.624So on that note, guys, let's get to it.
00:16:59.624 -->
00:17:04.297A brief history of Once Upon in the West for context for our listeners.
00:17:04.297 -->
00:17:13.761So this is the fourth and almost final Western directed by Sergio Leone, the man who reinvigorated the genre with his Man with No Name trilogy, starring Clint Eastwood.
00:17:13.761 -->
00:17:20.576Those films, of course, being 1964's A Fistful of Dollars, which was based on the Nikira Kurosawa Samurai film Yojimbo.
00:17:20.607 -->
00:17:32.326Nineteen sixty five's for a few dollars more, and nineteen sixty-sixes the good, the bad, and the ugly, each film proving more financially successful and more technically accomplished than the last.
00:17:32.446 -->
00:17:47.537These films launched the subgenre cheekily called Spaghetti Western, of which over six hundred films were made in Europe between nineteen sixty four and nineteen seventy eight, and almost five hundred of those made in Italy alone.
00:17:47.738 -->
00:17:50.852The films We're traditionally made on low budgets.
00:17:50.852 -->
00:17:52.641That's why there's so many of them.
00:17:52.641 -->
00:17:57.478And in Italy Stop hold hold here there for a second.
00:17:57.478 -->
00:18:19.589One of my dreams, because my my my pr producing partner Austin here, he has a similar sort of idea where he's just like, if we could just rent a place out in Joshua Tree for like two months and just invite a whole bunch of like self-contained film crews and just try and make as many sort of western themed And regurgitate the cast, like in different roles kind of a thing.
00:18:19.589 -->
00:18:20.127Okay.
00:18:20.127 -->
00:18:21.661Roger Corman style.
00:18:21.661 -->
00:18:22.583Yes.
00:18:22.583 -->
00:18:23.054Roger Corman.
00:18:23.054 -->
00:18:23.615They made a book.
00:18:23.615 -->
00:18:27.432Like that's that's totally where Jack Nicholson got his first start.
00:18:27.432 -->
00:18:30.461He was like writing and part of that acting crew.
00:18:30.461 -->
00:18:33.402That has been that has been my idea.
00:18:33.402 -->
00:18:34.026Yeah.
00:18:34.026 -->
00:18:36.489That has been my idea for at least a decade.
00:18:36.489 -->
00:18:40.913And I'm just like, you know, now's the time to kind of pull some shit like that off.
00:18:40.913 -->
00:18:44.778Like now is the time where that could actually work.
00:18:44.778 -->
00:18:45.561Anyway.
00:18:45.561 -->
00:18:46.470All right, go on.
00:18:46.470 -->
00:18:46.840All right.
00:18:46.840 -->
00:18:48.162Well back.
00:18:48.162 -->
00:18:51.104Back to this point in time in cinema history.
00:18:51.104 -->
00:19:02.332But after three such spaghetti westerns, Leone had little interest in doing another, especially as Star Clen Yeastwood equally wanted to switch gears before he became trapped in a single genre, Alajon Wayne.
00:19:02.332 -->
00:19:05.094For his part, Leone was hoping to move on to other material.
00:19:05.094 -->
00:19:10.376As Chris already pointed out, his passion project would eventually become the movie Once Upon a Time in America.
00:19:10.376 -->
00:19:13.118A four hour epic thought this movie was long.
00:19:13.118 -->
00:19:18.976A four hour epic starring Robert De Niro, James Wood And Joe Heshi.
00:19:18.976 -->
00:19:22.057However, it would be decades before this vision materialized.
00:19:22.057 -->
00:19:30.263The movie wouldn't be made and ultimately released until 1984, because American studios had a lot of convincing to do.
00:19:30.345 -->
00:19:38.852another western! The one that starred beloved American actor Henry Fonda.
00:19:38.852 -->
00:19:45.847Fonda had long established himself as an American icon, appearing in dozens of films and earning himself two Oscar nominations.
00:19:45.847 -->
00:19:52.742For the Grapes of Wrath, best actor, and twelve Angry Men, Best Picture, having co-produced the film with Reginald Rhodes.
00:19:52.742 -->
00:19:55.074Sergio Leone was a huge fan of Fonda.
00:19:55.074 -->
00:19:59.166Fonda was in fact his favorite actor of of all time.
00:19:59.166 -->
00:20:02.490And Leone had wanted to work with him for his entire career.
00:20:02.490 -->
00:20:06.291He apparently could never get past his agent before this point in time.
00:20:06.291 -->
00:20:08.973But Paramount Yeah, you're right, doesn't that sound right?
00:20:09.469 -->
00:20:11.220Some things have changed.
00:20:11.231 -->
00:20:13.263Some things have not changed.
00:20:13.263 -->
00:20:21.630But Paramount offered Fonda on a silver platter, along with a hefty budget, a package Leone could not say no to another Western.
00:20:21.630 -->
00:20:22.789Be damned.
00:20:22.931 -->
00:20:25.211But Leone still needed an actual script.
00:20:25.211 -->
00:20:29.335What was this Western starring Henry Fonda going to be?
00:20:29.394 -->
00:20:39.112Jump two, just before Christmas 1966, Bernardo Bertolucci went to see the good, the bad, and the ugly in Rome at three o'clock in the afternoon on the first day of its run.
00:20:39.243 -->
00:20:47.273Watching films, he later recalled, was a way of finding some comfort from the ones I was not then able to make myself amen.
00:20:49.867 -->
00:21:05.383He had directed two feature films, The Grim Reaper, nineteen sixty-two, and Before the Revolution, nineteen sixty-four, which had been screened at the Cannes and New York film festivals, but which, quote, was almost determined not to find an audience, unquote.
00:21:05.663 -->
00:21:08.903Since then, Bertolucci's career had ground to a halt.
00:21:08.903 -->
00:21:11.417He felt like a foreigner in his own country.
00:21:11.417 -->
00:21:14.996But a happy surprise awaited Bertolucci at the screening he had chosen.
00:21:15.105 -->
00:21:19.826Sergio Leone himself was actually in the projection booth to oversee the projection of his film.
00:21:19.826 -->
00:21:21.488It was a different time back then, people.
00:21:21.488 -->
00:21:24.409Dario Argento was in the booth with him.
00:21:24.409 -->
00:21:28.509Leone recognized Bertolucci and Dario made all the introductions.
00:21:28.509 -->
00:21:33.951The following day, Leone telephoned Bertolucci at home and asked, had he enjoyed the film?
00:21:34.132 -->
00:21:36.652I said that I did, but that was not enough.
00:21:36.652 -->
00:21:43.231Sergio wanted to know why, so I replied with a phrase which I think he liked very much, which almost seduced him.
00:21:43.231 -->
00:21:46.804I said I liked the way he filmed horses asses.
00:21:46.865 -->
00:21:48.026In general.
00:21:48.026 -->
00:21:53.250In both Italian and German westerns, the horses were filmed from the front and sides, in profile.
00:21:53.250 -->
00:21:57.653But when you film them, I said, you always show their backsides.
00:21:57.653 -->
00:21:59.915A chorus of backsides.
00:21:59.915 -->
00:22:04.219Very few directors shoot the back, which is less rhetorical and romantic.
00:22:04.219 -->
00:22:07.902One is John Ford and the other is you.
00:22:08.329 -->
00:22:13.355And Bertolucci might as well have given Leone a handjob because the result was the same.
00:22:13.435 -->
00:22:20.603He was completely knocked sideways by this, went quiet for a few seconds, and said, We must make a film together sometime.
00:22:20.603 -->
00:22:24.526And he started to tell me the beginning of a story.
00:22:25.067 -->
00:22:27.403That's what you're talking about.
00:22:27.403 -->
00:22:28.914That's what I'm talking about.
00:22:28.914 -->
00:22:30.303yeah, it should be done.
00:22:38.890 -->
00:22:45.597And next thing you know, a big a a big budget, like three hour art house western is born.
00:22:45.920 -->
00:22:47.766Wouldn't that be nice?
00:22:47.766 -->
00:22:48.354Yes.
00:22:48.354 -->
00:22:49.096I know, right?
00:22:49.096 -->
00:22:52.551It was done, gentlemen.
00:22:52.551 -->
00:22:53.472Yeah.
00:22:53.619 -->
00:22:57.163Leone signed Bertolucci and Argento to write the treatment for his new film.
00:22:57.163 -->
00:23:01.777Thus the three men began a series of meetings at Leone's home in the Via Vicipo.
00:23:01.777 -->
00:23:14.407The process went on for two months, though Argento claimed six, with the discussions focused on the mini meanings of the phrase Serauna Vorta Il Vest, which means once upon a time there was the West.
00:23:14.407 -->
00:23:17.779And this is the Italian title of the final film, by the way.
00:23:17.804 -->
00:23:33.557The idea being to juxtapose the fairy tale nature of the golden age, the Western mythos of the gunslingers, hence once upon a time, with the reality of industrialization and quote unquote progress, with modern business and the railroad laying down tracks over the past.
00:23:33.857 -->
00:23:45.300The final result of the mini script conferences involving Leone Bertolucci and Argento was a treatment or story consisting mainly of descriptions, suggestions for visual images, and stage directions.
00:23:45.300 -->
00:23:47.488Bertolucci remembers it as quote.
00:23:47.488 -->
00:23:51.278Huge, about 300 pages long, unquote.
00:23:51.278 -->
00:23:56.079With the treatment, yeah.
00:23:56.500 -->
00:24:06.743When the treatment was complete, both Bertolucci and Argento had to move on to other projects, and Leone took it to Sergio Donati, the script writer who had worked uncredited on the good, the bad, and the ugly.
00:24:06.963 -->
00:24:10.734So Donati stated, it wasn't so big, about eighty pages.
00:24:10.734 -->
00:24:11.685Mm-hmm.
00:24:11.685 -->
00:24:12.826Who knows?
00:24:13.334 -->
00:24:22.182I wrote the whole script in twenty five days, I think, working like hell, scarcely getting up from my seat, that's how it's done, and I had to rewrite just two things.
00:24:22.182 -->
00:24:30.961If you read the shooting script, everything was shot exactly as in my script, including the fly at the station, which we will get to again in just a little bit.
00:24:30.961 -->
00:24:32.863Because that's a very cool moment.
00:24:32.863 -->
00:24:38.561yet despite Leone's enthusiasm, Fondo was hesitant to take the role.
00:24:38.561 -->
00:24:43.664The version Fonda received was written in stilted English, a direct translation of Donati's words.
00:24:43.724 -->
00:24:46.046Quote, I didn't dig it and I turned it down.
00:24:46.046 -->
00:24:51.648I told the fellas I was lunching with that some Italian producer was flying in to try to talk me into doing it.
00:24:51.648 -->
00:24:52.730Who, they asked?
00:24:52.730 -->
00:24:54.490Sergio somebody.
00:24:54.550 -->
00:24:55.882Sergio Leone?
00:24:55.882 -->
00:24:58.272I said yes, and they all fell down.
00:24:58.272 -->
00:25:03.226Steam Sergio Leone had made the three biggest box office pictures to come out of Italy.
00:25:03.226 -->
00:25:07.605Well, I went home and called an old valued friend, Eli Wallach.
00:25:07.605 -->
00:25:10.327I told him I wasn't wild about the script.
00:25:10.829 -->
00:25:13.192Eli said, pay no attention to the script.
00:25:13.192 -->
00:25:13.992Just go.
00:25:13.992 -->
00:25:15.974You'll fall in love with Sergio.
00:25:15.974 -->
00:25:17.467You'll have a marvelous time.
00:25:17.467 -->
00:25:18.837Believe me.
00:25:19.277 -->
00:25:20.583Believe it.
00:25:20.589 -->
00:25:24.991Fonda thought he needed to change his appearance to appear, quote unquote, villainous, however.
00:25:24.991 -->
00:25:29.153He thought his baby blues and clean-shaven face wouldn't cut it.
00:25:29.233 -->
00:25:40.617He grew a beard and put in brown contact lenses to make himself, quote unquote, darker, but when he showed up to set, Leone immediately yelled off and made Fonda take out the contacts and shave.
00:25:40.617 -->
00:25:43.960He wanted Fonda as the Fonda playing against type.
00:25:43.960 -->
00:25:55.338And those piercing blue eyes are entirely retranslated to audiences as the cold, Calculating soulless eyes of Frank, who Fonda plays to pitch perfection.
00:25:55.940 -->
00:26:05.907Now Clint Eastwood was primarily offered, uh originally offered the role of quote unquote Harmonica, but he was persuaded he was not persuaded to return the way Leone was.
00:26:05.907 -->
00:26:16.217James Covern and Terrence Stamp were additionally considered, but the role ultimately went to forty-six year old Charles Bronson in his breakout performance, breakout performance at forty six.
00:26:16.217 -->
00:26:17.682Gives hope for us all, doesn't it?
00:26:17.682 -->
00:26:19.045Absolutely guys.
00:26:19.045 -->
00:26:21.107And go look at this guy for forty six.
00:26:21.107 -->
00:26:24.813Yeah, go look at this guy at forty six because he has a whole career after this.
00:26:25.185 -->
00:26:26.779This is just the beginning, man.
00:26:26.779 -->
00:26:29.824This is the begin before Death Wish and all that.
00:26:29.824 -->
00:26:39.171Yes, Leone was captivated by Bronson's face, saying that, quote, as Jean Luc Godard once wrote of Gary Cooper's face, it belongs to the mineral kingdom.
00:26:40.373 -->
00:26:55.243The third major male character, Cheyenne, was originally meant to go to Eli Wallach, but Leone feared audiences would associate him too readily with his Tuco character from the good, the bad, and the ugly, and opted to find another forty seven year old Jason Robards.
00:26:55.244 -->
00:26:56.905And Claudia Cardinal.
00:26:56.917 -->
00:27:02.240Who was once declared as, quote, after Spaghetti, Italy's happiest invention, unquote.
00:27:02.240 -->
00:27:05.922She was the first major female character Leone had ever had.
00:27:05.922 -->
00:27:13.444According to her, she had been friends with Leone for a decade, yet it wasn't until now that he had ever had anything for her.
00:27:13.444 -->
00:27:20.327And it was only at the prodding of Bertolucci that Leone agreed that a female protagonist would be intriguing.
00:27:20.327 -->
00:27:26.750Lastly, Leone had always wanted to have the score to the film made first, as we've mentioned before, then shoot.
00:27:26.750 -->
00:27:27.750Match the music.
00:27:27.750 -->
00:27:32.531Before now it had only been those final scenes, the good, the bad, and the ugly, that he'd never been able to make that happen with.
00:27:32.531 -->
00:27:40.223But this time he worked with Morcone to create four musical themes for the four major characters, which would play whenever they would feature.
00:27:40.223 -->
00:27:52.657The music was created before filming, and Leon would often play the music out loud while filming each character scene so that each actor could get into the feel and vibe of their character while the music was playing.
00:27:52.801 -->
00:28:00.470This would be pretty much the only primary music of the entire music were these four themes.
00:28:00.470 -->
00:28:02.496It's built like a theat theatrical production.
00:28:02.496 -->
00:28:03.287Yes.
00:28:03.287 -->
00:28:12.892Once Upon a Time in the West was released in December nineteen sixty eight in Italy and May nineteen sixty nine in America with twenty minutes trimmed from the runtime in America.
00:28:12.892 -->
00:28:18.855The film and you know, suckers, this this should prove something to them.
00:28:18.855 -->
00:28:25.219The film was a hit in Europe, taking in forty million worldwide, but only five point three in America.
00:28:25.219 -->
00:28:31.051The film was shot on a five million dollar budget, or roughly fifty six million in twenty twenty six dollars.
00:28:31.051 -->
00:28:36.602Just to put that in perspective, a three hour movie on fifty-six million dollars today.
00:28:36.602 -->
00:28:37.781Damn.
00:28:38.413 -->
00:28:39.155that's great.
00:28:39.155 -->
00:28:39.935And app it.
00:28:39.935 -->
00:28:40.817Let's get to it.
00:28:40.817 -->
00:28:41.646Yes.
00:28:41.646 -->
00:28:43.679Now let's talk about this movie proper.
00:28:43.679 -->
00:28:58.880Now here's the part of the podcast where we break this film down act by act, then discuss our thoughts about the movie and what we were thinking in terms of a wine pairing as well, in between each act and how both our thoughts on the movie and our thoughts on the wine evolved as we go.
00:28:58.880 -->
00:29:00.422Let's get to it, Dallas.
00:29:00.422 -->
00:29:01.501Take it away.
00:29:02.028 -->
00:29:02.880That's right.
00:29:02.880 -->
00:29:04.482This is Act One, people.
00:29:04.482 -->
00:29:10.997So follow along if you have not seen the film or if you have, because you have no choice if you're listening to this podcast, because that's what's coming up.
00:29:10.997 -->
00:29:11.978Act one.
00:29:27.692 -->
00:29:35.443A train arrives at the old west town of Flagstone, where a man with a harmonica played by Charles Bronson kills three men attempting to ambush him.
00:29:35.443 -->
00:29:46.626Although he was expecting an outlaw named Frank to be present at the ambush, he concludes that the men belong to the outlaw Cheyenne's gang due to their wearing that gang's signature duster.
00:29:46.626 -->
00:29:55.776Fun fact number one the three men trying to kill Harmonica were originally meant to be played by Clint Eastwood, Lee Van Cleef, and Eli Wallace.
00:29:55.776 -->
00:29:59.998Representing the death of Leone's previous characters and style of Western.
00:29:59.998 -->
00:30:08.553But Eastwood refused even this small part in the film, and Van Cleef was unavailable, squashing the idea.
00:30:08.553 -->
00:30:23.872the scene where Fly irritates one of the ambushers for an obscenely long time, one of the first moments where the audience realizes this is a very different kind of Western than the pulpy thrillers they were accustomed to.
00:30:23.872 -->
00:30:33.464Was done by attaching the fly to the actor by a very thin thread so that it buzzed around his face and never left.
00:30:33.464 -->
00:30:34.845Those are two fun facts.
00:30:34.845 -->
00:30:36.976By the way, that fly scene, fantastic.
00:30:36.976 -->
00:30:38.665We'll get back to it, I'm sure.
00:30:38.846 -->
00:30:49.588Meanwhile, Frank and his gang murder Brent McBain and his three children as they prepare for a welcome for their new wife and mother at their ranch dubbed Sweetwater.
00:30:49.588 -->
00:30:53.557Frank leaves evidence at the murder scene implicating Cheyenne.
00:30:53.557 -->
00:31:03.280Shortly after, a former prostitute arrives at the local town and reveals she is Jill McBain, who married McBain a month earlier in New Orleans.
00:31:03.280 -->
00:31:13.584As she travels to Sweetwater, she stops at a wayside inn tavern trading post, where her beauty draws the unwelcomed attention of the barman Lionel Stander.
00:31:13.584 -->
00:31:21.268They are suddenly interrupted by a noisy off scheme off-screen gun battle, the outlaw Cheyenne, played by Jason Robards.
00:31:21.268 -->
00:31:23.699Enters wearing shackles on his wrist.
00:31:23.699 -->
00:31:30.621The sound of a harmonica again reveals the presence of the nameless stranger, who has been watching from a dark corner of the tavern.
00:31:30.621 -->
00:31:38.663Cheyenne dubs him Harmonica, and he uses Harmonica's gun to force another patron to shoot apart the chains at his wrist.
00:31:38.663 -->
00:31:45.395Cheyenne's men soon arrive, too late to help him escape the prison guards, who now lie dead outside.
00:31:45.410 -->
00:31:58.733Harmonica notes that the three men he killed earlier were wearing the same duster overcoats as Cheyenne's men, and Cheyenne is annoyed that rivals may be copying his trademark duster.
00:31:58.733 -->
00:31:59.773Gay.
00:32:00.193 -->
00:32:11.877Jill and Sam arrive at Sweetwater to find a crowd of somber wedding guests standing around the outdoor tables, now put to use as funeral buyers.
00:32:11.877 -->
00:32:20.640As the Buer, as the burial comes to an end, the crowd discovers that the torn-off collar of a duster overcoat was found on a nail by the door.
00:32:20.640 -->
00:32:23.560This marks the massacre at Cheyenne's work.
00:32:23.942 -->
00:32:29.165The men form a posse and ride off to track down the outlaw and hang him.
00:32:29.165 -->
00:32:35.150Sam offers to drive Jill back to the flagstone, but she says she will stay at Sweetwater.
00:32:35.150 -->
00:32:41.634That evening, she ransacks the McBain household looking for anything of value that might have been hidden away.
00:32:41.917 -->
00:32:52.280At the town laundry and flagstone that night, Harmonica puts the laundry man, Wobbles, through a violent interrogation, wanting to know why Frank didn't show up at the train.
00:32:52.280 -->
00:32:53.500Wobbles doesn't know.
00:32:53.500 -->
00:32:55.041He only arranged the meeting.
00:32:55.041 -->
00:33:02.683Harmonica suspects Frank was occupied at McBain's farm just then, but Wobbles insists otherwise.
00:33:02.683 -->
00:33:05.023Cheyenne did that job.
00:33:05.023 -->
00:33:06.345Everyone knows it.
00:33:06.345 -->
00:33:08.605We got proof, quote unquote.
00:33:08.605 -->
00:33:10.266Harmonica doesn't believe it.
00:33:10.326 -->
00:33:14.547Quote That was always one of Frank's tricks.
00:33:14.626 -->
00:33:16.688Faking evidence.
00:33:16.708 -->
00:33:17.828End quote.
00:33:17.828 -->
00:33:28.192Back at Sweetwater, Jill finds a group of miniature buildings stored away in a trunk, including a model train station with a fancy swinging sign that says station.
00:33:28.192 -->
00:33:33.194She hears the sound of a harmonica outside and fires a shotgun into the darkness.
00:33:33.194 -->
00:33:36.277The sound of the harmonica moves further away.
00:33:36.277 -->
00:33:44.003In the morning, she, as she is about to leave for Good, she finds Cheyenne on her doorstep, while his men wait outside.
00:33:44.003 -->
00:33:46.486He barges in and asks for coffee.
00:33:46.486 -->
00:33:52.229He tells of being chased by the posse all night as he helps make the fire for the coffee.
00:33:52.229 -->
00:33:54.869He says he would never kill a kid.
00:33:55.809 -->
00:33:58.971I ain't the mean bastard people make me out.
00:33:59.192 -->
00:34:03.296He decided to come take a look at the scene of his supposed crime.
00:34:03.296 -->
00:34:10.909Not only is he annoyed that someone is trying to blame him, but neither he nor Jill can understand why the killings happened at all.
00:34:10.909 -->
00:34:12.771The place looks so worthless.
00:34:12.771 -->
00:34:16.632He imagines that McBain must have hidden away a treasure somewhere.
00:34:16.632 -->
00:34:20.514Jill tells him that if so, she couldn't find it.
00:34:20.996 -->
00:34:23.106All right, let's think about this.
00:34:23.106 -->
00:34:25.137What what are we thinking about here?
00:34:25.762 -->
00:34:28.184Dear listeners, Gallus is allowed to sit and make the gay joke.
00:34:28.184 -->
00:34:29.726Just just so everyone knows that.
00:34:29.726 -->
00:34:30.847If you're new to us.
00:34:30.847 -->
00:34:31.838By the way.
00:34:31.934 -->
00:34:35.081Dallas is gonna make whatever joke he wants, that's generally a problem.
00:34:36.146 -->
00:34:37.670But there you are.
00:34:37.670 -->
00:34:39.010There we are.
00:34:40.478 -->
00:34:41.809Full disclosure.
00:34:41.809 -->
00:34:43.172Mars and Tiger.
00:34:44.429 -->
00:34:45.382Congress.
00:34:54.344 -->
00:35:07.554All right, Chris, so what do we think about actual uh Well, you know, I'm gonna start with the the Eli Wallach thing, which is that forget about the script and just go and have fun with Sergio Leone.
00:35:07.554 -->
00:35:19.632'Cause you know, I mean, seriously, it's like when you try and break a Leone film down into all three of your acts and go through the plotting, the plotting is always super, super complicated.
00:35:19.632 -->
00:35:20.012Yeah.
00:35:20.012 -->
00:35:22.153And it's hard to like actually track it.
00:35:22.153 -->
00:35:27.947The joy is literally just experiencing the film and going through.
00:35:28.206 -->
00:35:31.907And so, you know, we keep talking about this opening sequence.
00:35:31.907 -->
00:35:36.010And the opening sequence does so many amazing things.
00:35:36.010 -->
00:35:38.152One of the first things is that sound design.
00:35:38.152 -->
00:35:45.356Like it literally builds sort of a score out of a continuous sequence of sound elements.
00:35:45.356 -->
00:35:52.159So it's like you got these like three super bad looking dudes that you know are gonna be causing trouble.
00:35:52.159 -->
00:35:52.603Basically.
00:35:52.603 -->
00:36:02.666And they got their guns and they're going and They're station you know, they're sort of setting themselves around this train station and they're sitting there waiting for a train.
00:36:02.666 -->
00:36:05.148And this train station's in the middle of nowhere.
00:36:05.148 -->
00:36:08.349But every single element has like a different sound.
00:36:08.349 -->
00:36:13.923You've got like the ticker tape from the like the telegraph going.
00:36:13.923 -->
00:36:15.695That's got like sort of the beat.
00:36:15.695 -->
00:36:21.760And then you've got like, you know, the sound of the old windmill going spinning around.
00:36:21.760 -->
00:36:24.641And all of these things start to work together.
00:36:24.641 -->
00:36:28.063To be able to create this amazing sense of tension.
00:36:28.063 -->
00:36:45.289And before you know it, you have literally sat through like a six and a half minute sequence that has zero lines of dialogue, where it's basically just a bunch of dudes walking occasionally, but mostly just standing there waiting and totally engaged.
00:36:45.371 -->
00:36:59.333And the thing that's super fun about all of that, so you introduce all these bad guys, they're like, these are gonna be the baddest dudes ever, but Then the train finally arrives, and then you finally get to introduce your hero, Harmonica.
00:36:59.554 -->
00:37:07.282And, you know, right off the the bat, spoiler alert, he wastes all three of them instantly.
00:37:07.282 -->
00:37:19.192But Sergio Leone also does something that's interesting he'd never done before, which is that in that gunfight where he duh is the quicker on the draw and wastes those other guys, he actually gets hit.
00:37:19.192 -->
00:37:21.835And he actually like is vulnerable.
00:37:21.835 -->
00:37:32.186Which is also a really cool thing 'cause usually in Western T Hero is certainly not First scene, not the introductory scene, he he's not gonna get shot, right?
00:37:32.186 -->
00:37:37.338So this is like he's amazing but fallible, like not superhuman, right?
00:37:37.338 -->
00:37:50.025You know, I think uh I I that that's kind of a stroke of genius for from my opinion, because we do realize, of course, very quickly this is our hero, but he does have, as you said, Dave, those sort of vulnerabilities.
00:37:50.025 -->
00:37:56.369But it's also something that pulls us into this world so much more than any other cho option.
00:37:56.369 -->
00:38:01.132Like you're sitting there and you're like, okay, yeah, this first of all, this is the old west.
00:38:01.132 -->
00:38:04.313Shit was dire all around.
00:38:05.405 -->
00:38:23.771And even if you were you know, even if you were a heroic sort of persona, um, the vulnerabilities were right there in your face twenty four hours a day, and you were gonna hit get hit by a bullet or die of dysentery or live your Oregon Trail, you know, nightmare like you know, we used to on the computer.
00:38:23.771 -->
00:38:31.766But you know, it is just I think a stroke of genius to have him hit so quickly and to showcase that vulnerability.
00:38:31.766 -->
00:38:32.056Yeah.
00:38:32.056 -->
00:38:45.440Well, even even when we get to the sweet water place, like with the well of water that the guy built in there, like part of the point of that was that he had clean drinking water, which was a sure a special thing.
00:38:45.440 -->
00:38:48.630Like, you know, this is like you said, dysentery, like you drank liquor.
00:38:48.630 -->
00:38:53.942Like you lived off of alcohol because the water was kind of dangerous and not necessarily clean.
00:38:53.942 -->
00:38:55.739This was not a well developed area.
00:38:55.739 -->
00:39:01.534uh industrialized like, you know, progress, industrialization, it was coming, but it wasn't there yet.
00:39:01.559 -->
00:39:13.235Okay, one one thing about that, Dave, one thing that we have we we g history has corrected us is often most places could access clean water, but they couldn't charge the same way they could for alcohol.
00:39:13.235 -->
00:39:20.134uh Yeah, right, right.
00:39:23.612 -->
00:39:27.331Would you like the expense of sparkling or bottled, you know, still water?
00:39:27.331 -->
00:39:29.317And it's like if you want water, you're still paying for it, buddy.
00:39:29.317 -->
00:39:30.628Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:39:30.713 -->
00:39:32.255Totally.
00:39:32.275 -->
00:39:42.119But it's like even at that point, like there's a part later where, you know, Joe McBain stops off at sort of the stagecoach place and like she asks if she can take a bath.
00:39:42.119 -->
00:39:44.190And it's like, you know, the bath has been there.
00:39:44.190 -->
00:39:45.898That water hasn't been changed.
00:39:45.898 -->
00:39:48.771Only three people have been in it today.
00:39:50.083 -->
00:39:51.023Yeah.
00:39:51.023 -->
00:39:52.603It's actually pretty clean.
00:39:52.603 -->
00:39:54.824That's actually not so bad.
00:39:55.684 -->
00:39:57.306And that's like luxury, man.
00:39:57.306 -->
00:40:02.947That's like you know, that's how you're gonna clean yourself in the luxurious establishment.
00:40:03.648 -->
00:40:12.972This film does a great job of showing because it's that moment right before civilization comes to the wild west.
00:40:12.972 -->
00:40:16.512And that's why the the train is such a key component to this thing.
00:40:16.512 -->
00:40:16.711Right.
00:40:16.711 -->
00:40:38.706Because basically, once you actually laid the train tracks that got all the way from the East Coast to the West Coast, this, you know, sort of myth of the American West, where there's poetic justice, where it's beyond the law, where it's, you know, an eye for an eye, and all that fun stuff that you know Westerns are based on.
00:40:38.706 -->
00:40:40.188It all just goes out the window.
00:40:40.188 -->
00:40:45.550So this is that moment where civilization is just about.
00:40:45.550 -->
00:40:54.648To arrive and those old Western heroes like Harmonica, like Frank, that live and die by the gun are done and they know it.
00:40:54.648 -->
00:41:00.405And that's a big part of what the the story ends up being is that it's the final days of that.
00:41:00.405 -->
00:41:05.199And they both sort of acknowledge that, you know, this this is it, man.
00:41:05.199 -->
00:41:09.253This is, you know, kind of our way of life is dying out.
00:41:09.253 -->
00:41:09.719Yeah.
00:41:09.719 -->
00:41:10.489Right.
00:41:10.489 -->
00:41:14.431And this is as as Chris already pointed out, the that opening sequence.
00:41:14.431 -->
00:41:15.833It sets up this movie.
00:41:15.833 -->
00:41:18.655There is no dialogue in that opening sequence.
00:41:18.655 -->
00:41:19.335Zero.
00:41:19.335 -->
00:41:23.836Every even when everyone even when harmonica arrives, they don't stay buckets to each other.
00:41:23.836 -->
00:41:25.282Then you know there's a standpoint.
00:41:25.282 -->
00:41:26.132Great lines.
00:41:26.132 -->
00:41:28.083They do say a couple of very small lines.
00:41:28.083 -->
00:41:28.514Do they?
00:41:28.514 -->
00:41:31.146We asked the yes, we asked the three dudes.
00:41:31.146 -->
00:41:33.608You know, they're they're with the horses.
00:41:34.429 -->
00:41:36.431Yes, yes, that like Frank.
00:41:36.431 -->
00:41:42.958And they're like, you know, he's like, Would you bring a horse from the Two horses too many.
00:41:44.257 -->
00:41:46.431Like looks like we're one shot.
00:41:46.431 -->
00:41:48.420Looks like you brought two to a minute.
00:41:48.420 -->
00:41:49.005That's right.
00:41:49.005 -->
00:41:49.206Boom.
00:41:49.206 -->
00:41:49.686That's right.
00:41:49.686 -->
00:41:54.646That was really good.
00:41:54.978 -->
00:41:59.590You brought two to This is what I get watching a few weeks ago.
00:41:59.590 -->
00:42:00.170Whoopsie.
00:42:00.170 -->
00:42:00.791Okay.
00:42:00.791 -->
00:42:02.010Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:42:02.010 -->
00:42:10.492So a fun fact about this movie that I also love is apparently if you take all the dialogue in the movie, um, it's only fifteen pages worth of script.
00:42:10.554 -->
00:42:12.293If you put it all together.
00:42:12.293 -->
00:42:16.655So it's like it's not dialogue heavy.
00:42:16.655 -->
00:42:21.135And most of the dialogue is somewhat curt and opaque.
00:42:21.135 -->
00:42:27.358And you know, people sometimes speak very directly and sometimes are speaking around each other.
00:42:27.398 -->
00:42:32.384Um, but it's not that much dialogue i in as a whole.
00:42:32.384 -->
00:42:39.318You know, Chris, you said you just said that and I I did I've never thought about this and I love this film and seen it numerous times.
00:42:39.400 -->
00:42:50.039But and with what you're saying, Dave, about subtracting the dialogue and only being about fifteen pages, it does sit someplace between a silent film and a contemporary film, actually.
00:42:50.039 -->
00:42:50.338Sure.
00:42:50.338 -->
00:43:00.617When you factor in how well it's folied, how well the sound design is, how narrative the sound design is, it does kind of sit someplace between those two.
00:43:00.617 -->
00:43:01.418Hmm.
00:43:01.750 -->
00:43:08.293When you get this fun thing where when the dialogue hits, it's not none of it is plot oriented.
00:43:08.293 -->
00:43:11.853They don't tell you anything that's about the plot.
00:43:11.853 -->
00:43:14.135It's always fun like wordplay.
00:43:14.135 -->
00:43:18.396You know, like the thing we just broke down with the bringing too many horses and that kind of thing.
00:43:18.396 -->
00:43:25.139You got the other one where Cheyenne and Harmonica meet each other, which they maybe act to spoiler.
00:43:25.820 -->
00:43:36.518They meet each other and they have this great interaction, you know, between Well, you know, do you actually play or, you know, do you can you shoot?
00:43:36.538 -->
00:43:41.802And it's all of this like fun it's almost like early hip hop because it's like rhymes.
00:43:41.802 -->
00:43:45.385It's like, you know, playing back and forth rhyme structure stuff.
00:43:45.385 -->
00:43:52.275It's really I I made a note in my in my notes and for p specifically for the first scene, the first few sequences.
00:43:52.275 -->
00:43:59.922This feels like a bunch of grown men fucking each other on camera without sex.
00:44:01.804 -->
00:44:04.628That's what it but it's but to your point, Chris.
00:44:04.628 -->
00:44:10.684It it's the interplay, it's that like jab that like pulled back, that jab that like pulled back.
00:44:10.684 -->
00:44:13.556I'm like Well these guys are just banging right now.
00:44:13.556 -->
00:44:13.927Alright.
00:44:13.927 -->
00:44:14.768Yeah.
00:44:16.365 -->
00:44:19.097It's like, you know, this is where heated rivalry came.
00:44:19.097 -->
00:44:19.958Right.
00:44:20.396 -->
00:44:30.380The gunfight, when the gunfight finally happens, that is the final you know the the the the the actual final sex, the actual final intercourse and it's all foreplay up until then.
00:44:30.829 -->
00:44:33.081That's the that's the gasm moment.
00:44:33.081 -->
00:44:39.835By the way, uh Smokey Smokey Robinson, our lovely Smokey Robinson, has an album he put out at eighty years old called Gasms.
00:44:39.835 -->
00:44:42.036Just unrelated to anything else.
00:44:42.387 -->
00:44:43.396but go on.
00:44:44.757 -->
00:44:47.864At eighty years old, dude, he still loves the gasin.
00:44:48.505 -->
00:44:51.295Well let's keep going on the what about wine pots?
00:44:51.295 -->
00:44:52.416Dallas, kick us off here.
00:44:52.416 -->
00:44:56.168What were you thinking after roughly act one of this movie?
00:44:56.277 -->
00:44:58.068You know what's overwhelming about this film?
00:44:58.068 -->
00:45:05.364And we've talked about it being so sensory, and I don't think I've ever done this before in terms of a a an approach to pairing.
00:45:08.523 -->
00:45:13.775The color, this this color scheme, the palette of this film is just so alluring.
00:45:13.775 -->
00:45:22.539And if you have the chance to watch this in any sort of um graduated kind of presentation level, like with, you know, technicolor or whatever it is, it is stunning.
00:45:22.539 -->
00:45:25.501It is just a stunning film.
00:45:26.021 -->
00:45:34.976and everything is just so sort of orange and rusty, but also arid and yeah, stop, stop wiggling your eyebrows just because I said the word orange.
00:45:34.976 -->
00:45:35.965I saw that.
00:45:36.144 -->
00:45:36.891No.
00:45:37.996 -->
00:45:44.722but it it is it's like it lives someplace between an orange and like a pink kind of thing, a rose.
00:45:44.722 -->
00:45:53.150And and so I couldn't get that out of my mind the whole time because it is kind of the the backdrop for this entire world, you know.
00:45:53.590 -->
00:45:59.356so I'm I at this point that is the all I got.
00:45:59.356 -->
00:46:00.117True.
00:46:00.117 -->
00:46:12.358I'm like uh Like there's no tin no notes, no sort of like no no tannins, no I'm just like, okay, this is just orange and pink and I'm connected to that sensory kind of thing for the first time.
00:46:12.358 -->
00:46:12.809Yeah.
00:46:12.809 -->
00:46:13.422So yeah.
00:46:13.422 -->
00:46:17.592I mean I will agree that like, you know, Westerns are it's a desaturated color palette, right?
00:46:17.592 -->
00:46:28.045Um I I think it was either the cinematographer or the gaffer on this film that has is on record as saying something like with Westerns, he's like, you can't have too many colors in a western.
00:46:28.045 -->
00:46:38.958Like you have to you got your browns, you got your oranges, you've got your gr your steel grays and your but I mean it it's like a relic all very muted, all very tight.
00:46:38.958 -->
00:46:46.364So but on that note, yeah, there are There's always a particular kind of wine that I think of when it comes to a Western.
00:46:46.364 -->
00:46:55.431Um, and it definitely is, you know, the textures of a Western, the color palette of a western, that dirt and dust and grittiness.
00:46:55.431 -->
00:47:03.327So unlike you, Dallas, like the tannins all are always kind of important for me when I'm starting to watch a Western because it's always that kind of smoky, dusty, gritty.
00:47:03.327 -->
00:47:04.992And I'm like, I gotta.
00:47:04.992 -->
00:47:07.382I need s I want sand in my mouth, my friends.
00:47:07.382 -->
00:47:08.634I I think I need that.
00:47:08.634 -->
00:47:17.137It's like it's gotta be something I'm like chewing on and is like r you know scratching up my tongue on the way down, and it's not gonna feel right if that's not here.
00:47:17.137 -->
00:47:23.469So this particular kind of wine that I always think of for a western, I was pretty sure it was gonna be that.
00:47:23.469 -->
00:47:32.213And it's uh a type of wine that is, in fact, heavily associated with a specific part of Italy, which was perfect.
00:47:32.213 -->
00:47:33.782And then even better.
00:47:33.782 -->
00:47:54.471This is a type of wine that suffered a near extinction in the 50s and 60s when quote unquote progress took over and made it largely obsolete and made it disappear, or at least financially unsuitable compared to what progress and industrialization was suddenly allowing uh this the these parts of the world to do.
00:47:54.471 -->
00:48:02.315And so all of that thematically was really falling into place for me where I'm like, okay, this is a hundred percent the style of wine I'm gonna stick to.
00:48:02.315 -->
00:48:10.072I'm probably going to find it from that region in Italy, which maybe if this if this holds true, I'll reveal maybe in after act two here.
00:48:10.072 -->
00:48:11.873Um, but those were my thoughts.
00:48:11.873 -->
00:48:14.677And yeah, I was nothing in act one.
00:48:14.677 -->
00:48:16.148I was like, it's still gonna be perfect.
00:48:16.148 -->
00:48:22.184This is it's slow, something you wanna sip slowly, be brooding, have those textures, have that heaviness in the mouth.
00:48:22.184 -->
00:48:25.346Because it's not you I this is not a like.
00:48:25.550 -->
00:48:31.353Porter sipper wine, kind of a movie, like don't go through something fast because you will be drunk by the end of Act One.
00:48:31.353 -->
00:48:34.085It's like you need to go.
00:48:34.085 -->
00:48:35.204Yeah, yeah.
00:48:35.204 -->
00:48:36.166Go go slow.
00:48:36.166 -->
00:48:37.235So that that was my thought.
00:48:37.235 -->
00:48:38.077How about you, Chris?
00:48:38.077 -->
00:48:40.737What are you thinking at this point in terms of the line carry?
00:48:40.737 -->
00:48:49.161I gotta admit, like when I was thinking about this, I probably came preloaded with a bunch of assumptions because I love Western so much.
00:48:49.161 -->
00:48:59.264And there's so many things that, you know, if I'm trying to think about having never watched this film, which is ours I've seen so many times, you know, what are the kind of things that I'd be thinking about?
00:48:59.264 -->
00:49:07.755And so I'm like, you know, I'm sort of in your your world, Dave, where I wanted something like sort of.
00:49:07.777 -->
00:49:13.364Bigger, a little bit bolder, darker fruit, that kind of thing, but very comforting.
00:49:13.364 -->
00:49:15.086Like a like a dude wine.
00:49:15.086 -->
00:49:18.722I wanted like a guy's wine when I started this kind of thing.
00:49:18.722 -->
00:49:23.237Because that was my assumption, is that like, I'm getting into the Western.
00:49:23.237 -->
00:49:30.730I'm like, you know, haven't watched like Good the Bad and the Ugly Mind Dog twenty twenty or some Thunderbird is what you're saying, huh?
00:49:31.012 -->
00:49:32.255Very wild.
00:49:33.632 -->
00:49:39.275It's still gonna be polished because I still like my my stuff to have some acidity and some polish.
00:49:39.275 -->
00:49:40.846I like stageability.
00:49:40.846 -->
00:49:46.438But it was gonna be like more like a barbecue style wine, the kind of thing I would eat with ribs, that kind of thing.
00:49:46.438 -->
00:49:50.882So that was probably like my first thinking point.
00:49:50.882 -->
00:49:56.514And I like to think about it before we ever even actually watch the movie.
00:49:56.514 -->
00:50:07.222And then, you know, it definitely evolved as I watched the movie and started thinking about it because The movie is quite different than I initially thought it would be.
00:50:07.222 -->
00:50:11.286When I think back to the first time I saw it, it does evolve and change.
00:50:11.286 -->
00:50:13.230So Yes, 100%.
00:50:13.230 -->
00:50:13.730All right.
00:50:13.730 -->
00:50:14.231Yeah.
00:50:14.231 -->
00:50:17.617On that note, Chris, take us into act two.
00:50:34.141 -->
00:50:44.378Alright, so here we go with Act Two, and so like I said, trying to read a synopsis of Leoni film is always a challenge, so hang with me here.
00:50:44.378 -->
00:50:45.630So, all right.
00:50:45.630 -->
00:50:56.277In a private railroad car, Morton, played by Gabrielle Ferretzi, uh crippled and dying railroad tycoon berates Frank for killing the McBain's.
00:50:56.277 -->
00:50:59.518He only wanted Frank to scare McBain, not kill him.
00:50:59.518 -->
00:51:04.012And now a misses McBain has shown up, making the killings pointless.
00:51:04.224 -->
00:51:12.436Morton began building his railroad inside of the Atlantic Ocean, and then he means to build his way to the Pacific before he dies.
00:51:12.436 -->
00:51:20.539Now he hired Frank to remove small obstacles from the tracks, but Frank intends to be a wealthy businessman himself.
00:51:20.539 -->
00:51:27.380Morton tells Frank he will never be like Morton, because Frank doesn't understand the money is more powerful than guns.
00:51:27.581 -->
00:51:35.454After sharing a congenial interlude with Jill, Cheyenne finishes his coffee and rides away with his men.
00:51:35.516 -->
00:51:41.440Jill takes her travelin' bags out of the wagon, but Harmonica is there and demands that she stay.
00:51:41.440 -->
00:51:46.605As he throws her down roughly and begins ripping at her clothes, Jill becomes alarmed.
00:51:46.605 -->
00:51:53.490Instead of harming her, he simply removes the white trimmings from her black dress, leaving her in full mourning.
00:51:53.490 -->
00:51:58.315They go to the well for a drink of water, only to be attacked by two more of Frank's men.
00:51:58.315 -->
00:52:04.099Harmonica kills them, and from a nearby vantage point Cheyenne sees that how handy harmonica is with a gun.
00:52:04.099 -->
00:52:08.963Well, clears that up.
00:52:08.963 -->
00:52:09.974So he could play.
00:52:09.974 -->
00:52:12.206He could act all right.
00:52:12.206 -->
00:52:13.628So now we got something.
00:52:13.628 -->
00:52:22.016So Jill goes to the laundry and asks Wobbles to tell Frank she knows everything and wants to negotiate with Frank personally.
00:52:22.016 -->
00:52:24.768Wobbles denies knowing anyone named Frank.
00:52:24.768 -->
00:52:27.900Dude, get over it Wobbles.
00:52:27.900 -->
00:52:28.981That guy.
00:52:29.065 -->
00:52:31.012Worst you're the worst middleman, Wobbles.
00:52:31.012 -->
00:52:32.418You are the worst middleman.
00:52:32.418 -->
00:52:35.018His death scene is so we'll talk about that.
00:52:35.018 -->
00:52:36.099I love it so much.
00:52:36.099 -->
00:52:37.110That's one of the best lines.
00:52:37.110 -->
00:52:40.380Anyway, but Jill repeats her demand and leaves.
00:52:40.380 -->
00:52:45.103Wobbles heads out to Morton's private train, unaware that Harmonica is following him.
00:52:45.103 -->
00:52:49.625Morton scolds him for coming there, but Wobble says he wasn't followed.
00:52:49.625 -->
00:52:52.315And he thought Morton and Frank would want to know about Mrs.
00:52:52.315 -->
00:52:53.166McBain.
00:52:53.166 -->
00:52:59.228When Frank sees Harmonica's shadow on the ground, he knows someone's on the roof and he signals the train to start moving.
00:52:59.469 -->
00:53:01.367Stop in an open country.
00:53:01.367 -->
00:53:03.161Frank captures Harmonica.
00:53:03.161 -->
00:53:08.679Monica let f lets Frank know that the two men he sent to kill Jill are themselves dead.
00:53:08.679 -->
00:53:14.780So I just want to remind everybody, we as the audience still have no fucking clue what Harmonica's beef is.
00:53:14.780 -->
00:53:15.938What is going on?
00:53:15.938 -->
00:53:18.275Yeah we are like an hour and a half.
00:53:18.275 -->
00:53:22.168this thing, and he's got one mission, and we have no idea what it is.
00:53:22.168 -->
00:53:23.869That's just a little reminder.
00:53:23.891 -->
00:53:28.804Realizing this is the man who wanted to meet with him, Frank asks Harmonica who he is.
00:53:28.804 -->
00:53:34.057Harmonica answers with the names of two men Frank has killed.
00:53:34.059 -->
00:53:38.141Morton interrupts the interrogation to remind Frank, he has more urgent business.
00:53:38.141 -->
00:53:39.362The woman.
00:53:39.382 -->
00:53:47.809Taken to himself, he leaves the three men behind on the train to guard Harmonica and keep an eye on Morton, whom he doesn't trust.
00:53:47.860 -->
00:53:54.936Over the next few minutes, Cheyenne craftily disposes of three gunmen one by one, sets Harmonica free.
00:53:54.936 -->
00:54:01.481They now have Morton in their power, but they will deal with him later, choosing to stop the train and ride to Jill's aid.
00:54:01.702 -->
00:54:09.307Back at Sweetwater, Jill is puzzled by the arrival of a large amount of lumber and building supplies that McVain ordered.
00:54:09.407 -->
00:54:12.181Since he paid cash, it all belongs to her.
00:54:12.181 -->
00:54:14.413What the fuck is he building?
00:54:14.413 -->
00:54:16.460So neither the lumbermen.
00:54:16.460 -->
00:54:21.632Nor Sam could say what it's for, but there are enough materials to build at least eight buildings.
00:54:21.632 -->
00:54:33.438When the lumber man shows her a blank sign and asks if she knows what should go on it, boom, she recognizes its outline from the Mansion train station and tells him it should say station.
00:54:33.438 -->
00:54:34.579Boom.
00:54:34.579 -->
00:54:35.498Inside the house.
00:54:35.498 -->
00:54:38.621She looks through the trunk again with model train station.
00:54:38.621 -->
00:54:41.681Just then Frank appears and captures her.
00:54:42.197 -->
00:54:45.170Inside a ruin at the Well, how do we get to the Navajo Cliff?
00:54:45.170 -->
00:54:46.400Ruin, by the way.
00:54:48.282 -->
00:54:49.742What happened there?
00:54:49.742 -->
00:54:54.605He loves to do weird things with time and space and never answers it.
00:54:54.605 -->
00:54:58.746Anyway, we're apparently now inside a ruin of the Navajo Cliff.
00:54:58.827 -->
00:55:00.088I guess.
00:55:00.327 -->
00:55:03.101Frank enjoys an intimate interlude.
00:55:03.101 -->
00:55:07.592Mm Morton's just hanging out like waiting for him there and I'm like, Why is Morton there?
00:55:07.592 -->
00:55:10.474Although to be fair, there's a whole lot to do in this town.
00:55:10.474 -->
00:55:12.641So this is true.
00:55:12.929 -->
00:55:14.170Where is this place?
00:55:14.170 -->
00:55:18.873We've haven't seen this Nova O'Cliff at all in this film, and it just pops up here.
00:55:18.873 -->
00:55:25.659So anyway, he remarks that she'll do anything to stay alive, and that it seems she can't resist a man's touch.
00:55:25.659 -->
00:55:28.719Even the touch of a man who killed her husband.
00:55:29.061 -->
00:55:30.641That didn't age well.
00:55:33.925 -->
00:55:41.793Frankie knows from inquiry and said over the telegraph that Jill was one of the most popular prostitutes in New Orleans until she married McMaine.
00:55:41.793 -->
00:55:46.235As he undresses her, he thinks of marrying her himself to take over the land.
00:55:46.235 -->
00:55:52.461Realizing he would make a bad husband, he comes up with a quicker, simpler solution.
00:55:52.461 -->
00:55:54.342Here's our fun little fact.
00:55:54.342 -->
00:56:03.260Claudia Cardinale's very first scene, in fact, the very first scene shot in the movie was this intimate scene with one and only Henry Fonda.
00:56:03.447 -->
00:56:13.280Paramount publicist had hyped it as the first true love scene of Henry Fonda's entire career and called a press conference just before the cameras rolled.
00:56:13.280 -->
00:56:14.980That takes us throughout Love it.
00:56:14.980 -->
00:56:15.532That's right.
00:56:15.532 -->
00:56:17.831Yeah, act two's great.
00:56:17.831 -->
00:56:19.003Act two's a lot.
00:56:19.003 -->
00:56:19.634Act two.
00:56:19.634 -->
00:56:31.954So this was where you know, when Cheyenne shows up to Jill's place and the conversation, going back to the how the dialogue can be very like there's a lot of wordplay and a lot of it's very opaque.
00:56:31.954 -->
00:56:34.056It kind of talks or dances around things.
00:56:34.056 -->
00:56:41.001I had to watch that scene twice to figure out what Cheyenne was trying, like what what was what did he just say?
00:56:41.001 -->
00:56:43.204Like what just happened between these two characters?
00:56:43.204 -->
00:56:51.550And the first time I watched it, the scene ended, and I'm like I I literally was paying full attention to this scene, and I do not know what just happened.
00:56:51.550 -->
00:56:57.315Um, he came and he left, and I'm like, and she was kind of upset, but also kind of put up with him.
00:56:57.315 -->
00:57:03.250And I replayed it and really paid attention to the dialogue a second time, and there and then it all clicked.
00:57:03.250 -->
00:57:15.208And I was like, there is something about the way the dialogue works in this movie that is it's brilliant in its own way because it it rarely comes out and just says what it's trying to say.
00:57:15.385 -->
00:57:18.889But It's all there and you can understand.
00:57:18.889 -->
00:57:29.097And the plot is actually kind there are plot twists all throughout this this story, but they're so they're not revealed in any way.
00:57:29.097 -->
00:57:36.614They're just sort of you just gotta follow what the characters are saying when they're kind of talking about the machinations that are happening behind the scenes.
00:57:36.614 -->
00:57:40.788Um but yeah, this this act much more complex than act one.
00:57:40.788 -->
00:57:41.481Sure.
00:57:41.481 -->
00:57:46.023Um there's much more going on, far more characters all layered on top of each other.
00:57:46.023 -->
00:57:55.248You have Morton, who suddenly shows up as sort of the main villain that's funding and kind of financing everything.
00:57:55.248 -->
00:58:02.331Um and it's really fascinating, though, that the gunslingers they cannot quite accept that Morton's a threat.
00:58:02.851 -->
00:58:07.893You know, they just keep leaving him there, even though if he went away.
00:58:08.213 -->
00:58:14.646It's it's weird because I'm like, if you would just shoot the motherfucker, like there this would kind of stop.
00:58:14.646 -->
00:58:18.452But they're like, Yeah, but you'll never shoot us, so we don't like what I don't understand.
00:58:18.452 -->
00:58:19.434How are you a threat?
00:58:19.434 -->
00:58:21.458Like there is that weird blotch.
00:58:21.710 -->
00:58:26.056Isn't that such a perfect comment on America?
00:58:26.838 -->
00:58:28.621You know, it makes sense.
00:58:28.742 -->
00:58:30.202He makes a reference.
00:58:32.637 -->
00:58:48.172I was it's I mean basically that's the thing that I love so much about this film is that it is an outsider's perspective on American history and American culture, and they have a very keen understanding of it.
00:58:48.172 -->
00:59:00.423These are you know Italian guys that grew up watching you know American films, and so they sort of have this really, really interesting insight.
00:59:00.423 -->
00:59:06.657into the American way that a lot of the time the people actually grow up and live in this country don't get.
00:59:06.657 -->
00:59:34.360And I think that's why that like Morton Frank interaction is so fascinating because you know, so often, especially in Westerns, you assume that violence will always win and it will always trump any other form of power when in reality all they're fighting about this entire time is about land and money, which is essentially where we are.
00:59:34.360 -->
00:59:36.592Right?
00:59:36.592 -->
00:59:37.434Expansion.
00:59:37.434 -->
00:59:39.945And It's a great commentary on capitalism.
00:59:39.945 -->
00:59:40.385Yes.
00:59:40.385 -->
00:59:56.449Where money is where all the threats actually lie, where everything that we complain about or need to fight back against, it's all coming from the people that have the power, the people who have the money who actually have the power, but we mostly get distracted by like being tough on quote unquote crime.
00:59:56.449 -->
00:59:57.911Never white power crime.
00:59:57.911 -->
01:00:00.634Um it's always the other kind of crime.
01:00:00.634 -->
01:00:05.409And the man with the gun is the bigger threat forever and ever and ever.
01:00:05.409 -->
01:00:07.969than the people who are actually shaping everything around.
01:00:07.969 -->
01:00:19.898Well he has he has that line it may actually be in act three, but he says he has a stack of money and he says the only thing that beats what you have in your hand it is in Act Three I think is what I have in mind.
01:00:19.960 -->
01:00:21.059And it's coming.
01:00:21.059 -->
01:00:22.101Yeah, it's coming.
01:00:22.101 -->
01:00:25.503so spoiler alert guys if you haven't seen this ninety year old film.
01:00:26.411 -->
01:00:33.364Leading Morton 'cause like Cheyenne and Harmonica and Frank, they all just keep leading Morton alive.
01:00:33.364 -->
01:00:37.925Because he's crippled, he's physically crippled and can't wield a gun.
01:00:37.925 -->
01:00:43.527And Morton keeps telling everybody who will listen to him that he's more powerful than them because of the money.
01:00:43.568 -->
01:00:44.088Right.
01:00:44.088 -->
01:00:46.289And nobody can buy it.
01:00:46.289 -->
01:00:48.469Not especially not these gunslingers, yeah.
01:00:48.469 -->
01:00:51.070I think that's the comedy of this film.
01:00:51.731 -->
01:00:55.735I think that is the core comedy of this film.
01:00:55.735 -->
01:00:58.996Yeah, every time I see that I'm just like, guys, he's telling ya.
01:00:58.996 -->
01:01:03.639He's telling me not only he's telling the cast, the the the the characters, he's telling the audience.
01:01:03.639 -->
01:01:06.021He's telling the audience, you guys aren't seeing this.
01:01:06.021 -->
01:01:12.626It's hilarious that you aren't seeing that this is the thing that makes all these other people kill one another, makes all these other guns fire.
01:01:12.626 -->
01:01:13.025Right.
01:01:13.025 -->
01:01:13.469You know.
01:01:13.469 -->
01:01:22.762The other thing that's so great and brilliant about the structure of this film is that there's one central story that everybody wants to know.
01:01:22.762 -->
01:01:29.534And it's harmonica, and why harmonica is dead set on trying to kill Frank.
01:01:29.534 -->
01:01:29.885Yeah.
01:01:29.885 -->
01:01:32.786And it's like, because that's what westerns are always about.
01:01:32.786 -->
01:01:36.556And so you assume that that's the thing that actually matters.
01:01:36.556 -->
01:01:40.110Is the least important Part of the entire film.
01:01:40.110 -->
01:01:45.456When that story actually gets revealed, which I won't reveal, so that is 100% an act three thing.
01:01:45.456 -->
01:02:14.971But that part, while it is super satisfying and wonderful, it's you realize that you're at the end of the movie by that point, and you've actually sort of subplotted all of the key stuff that actually mattered, which is the expansion of the the West and the domination of land and being able to you know, have the foresight to realize that water is here and, you know, that's gonna mean that this is going to be a town.
01:02:14.971 -->
01:02:18.454So whoever owns that land is gonna be the one that's going to be rich.
01:02:18.454 -->
01:02:19.994That's what they're fighting over.
01:02:19.994 -->
01:02:27.510But all the audience cares about is why the one dude wants to shoot the Why the vigilante wants to kill the gun.
01:02:27.510 -->
01:02:29.173Focused on this hero.
01:02:29.173 -->
01:02:32.869They're focused on on this hero who is completely irrelevant now.
01:02:34.483 -->
01:02:35.510Excited.
01:02:35.510 -->
01:02:36.978And not even that inner.
01:02:36.978 -->
01:02:39.364He's a protagonist and he has nothing to do with anything.
01:02:39.364 -->
01:02:40.172Yeah.
01:02:40.172 -->
01:02:42.034That's again, that's that core irony.
01:02:42.034 -->
01:02:50.851The whole time I'm watching this film, I'm just laughing my ass off because for me, it's like, okay, the writer-director, this is a conversation between he and the audience.
01:02:50.851 -->
01:02:55.795Really, truly, authentically a conversation between he and the audience.
01:02:55.795 -->
01:02:58.449And so I'm just like, this is so fucking funny.
01:02:58.449 -->
01:03:02.612This is great commentary, but also this is so ridiculously.
01:03:03.958 -->
01:03:04.798It is.
01:03:04.798 -->
01:03:14.311The one other thing I gotta say with Act Two is it does have one of my favorite lines, which is when they kill Wobbles and Frank kills him.
01:03:14.311 -->
01:03:19.692And so Frank he's wearing, you know, a belt and suspenders.
01:03:19.692 -->
01:03:20.626Yeah.
01:03:20.626 -->
01:03:24.251You can't trust a man with a Yes.
01:03:24.251 -->
01:03:26.956Yeah, he shoots both the suspenders and the belt.
01:03:26.956 -->
01:03:29.960So how the hell can he trust a man who can't even trust his own pelt?
01:03:29.960 -->
01:03:30.896Yes.
01:03:32.661 -->
01:03:33.534You gotta love.
01:03:33.534 -->
01:03:34.373Yeah, yeah, totally.
01:03:34.373 -->
01:03:36.056It's a great wine thoughts, Dallas.
01:03:36.056 -->
01:03:37.516Kick us off one more time.
01:03:39.068 -->
01:03:40.978any evolution on your wine thoughts?
01:03:40.978 -->
01:03:47.382oh Definitely some evolution.
01:03:47.382 -->
01:03:54.927I I will say I I wanted something chalkier, of course, because now you know you get into it and all the dust stuffs, right?
01:03:54.927 -->
01:03:56.487You get all the dust ups, right?
01:03:56.487 -->
01:03:57.748You're getting all the dust stuffs.
01:03:57.748 -->
01:03:59.418That's one thing about this this film.
01:03:59.418 -->
01:04:02.510You see the the dust is so palpable.
01:04:02.510 -->
01:04:04.811Like you're I'm out there and I'm just like, God, my mouth is dry.
01:04:04.811 -->
01:04:10.378I'm just like that's so much texture concept of texture.
01:04:10.378 -->
01:04:13.719Every concept, inversion, iteration of texture is in this film.
01:04:13.719 -->
01:04:20.646That's why you can only have 15 pages of dialogue and still feel like it is chalk full of narrative.
01:04:20.646 -->
01:04:22.606There you go.
01:04:22.606 -->
01:04:24.027You're welcome.
01:04:25.168 -->
01:04:30.463So um I think as we know, this film was primarily filmed in three places.
01:04:30.463 -->
01:04:34.965Uh Cinecedar Studios in Rome, uh Monument Valley in Arizona or Utah.
01:04:34.965 -->
01:04:36.217I think Arizona.
01:04:36.347 -->
01:04:37.097Utah.
01:04:37.097 -->
01:04:37.773Utah Utah.
01:04:37.773 -->
01:04:40.476And Granada in Spain.
01:04:41.257 -->
01:04:52.945and and the winery I chose is technically one degree away from the s line of latitude uh where this film was actually filmed.
01:04:52.945 -->
01:05:01.672Um the vineyard is in the shadow of the Oberenus Mountains, um, and that is a very popular area for this style of wine.
01:05:01.672 -->
01:05:19.755Um In fact, the traditional methods of uh this particular vintage were on the verge of extinction because of contemporary international winemaking uh for the previous 30 years by the time this vineyard actually came around.
01:05:19.755 -->
01:05:27.019but the fittners at this winery worked very hard to keep their lots exclusive and tiny.
01:05:27.019 -->
01:05:29.771We're talking tiny.
01:05:30.137 -->
01:05:40.380it is a husband and wife team who, like the couple in uh in Eden, in fact, had different uh roots into winemaking.
01:05:40.681 -->
01:05:53.164she was a proper Mittner winemaker and um and he was purely in the import side when they took over uh this winery.
01:05:53.844 -->
01:05:57.364and yeah, that's all I'll say for now.
01:05:57.525 -->
01:05:58.505Okay.
01:05:58.514 -->
01:06:00.465Beautiful.
01:06:00.465 -->
01:06:03.916So yeah, for me I think uh no real evolution.
01:06:03.916 -->
01:06:04.978I I knew what I wanted.
01:06:04.978 -->
01:06:09.601Um I didn't know the exact wine quite yet, but I knew it was gonna be an orange wine.
01:06:09.601 -->
01:06:19.253Um as as Dallas somewhat revealed, or as I somewhat gave away the game when he said, He starts blinking and winking.
01:06:19.253 -->
01:06:20.088I'm like, all right, Dave.
01:06:20.088 -->
01:06:20.766Yeah, I know.
01:06:20.766 -->
01:06:22.693You'd be so much.
01:06:24.038 -->
01:06:24.918I know.
01:06:24.918 -->
01:06:53.601But it's it's gonna be an orange wine, uh, which is but I decided, you know, the Italian region that really brought orange wine back kicking and screaming in the nineteen nineties into popularity was the Friuli Venezia Giulia reason region in northern Italy, once part of what is now Slovenia, but after somewhere there was some war, I don't pretend to know the history of this, but after certain wars it wound up becoming part of Italy instead, uh and getting absorbed into northern Italy.
01:06:53.601 -->
01:06:58.735But it kept a lot of Slovenia's uh history in terms of especially orange wine making.
01:06:58.735 -->
01:07:05.809And it wasn't until the 50s and 60s when progress of clean white wine and being able to mass produce.
01:07:05.809 -->
01:07:12.144And white wine, um, for those for those listeners who aren't aware of what orange wine really is, it's just skin contact white wine.
01:07:12.144 -->
01:07:18.748So you're soaking white wine on the white grape skins, just like a red wine, to give it all that texture, give it all that extra body.
01:07:18.748 -->
01:07:23.538But it takes time, just like a red wine to make.
01:07:23.538 -->
01:07:30.632And white wine, clean white wine, where you just press you crush the grapes, let the juice run off, and no nothing with the skins, and it's ready to drink right away.
01:07:30.632 -->
01:07:37.947That when progress let wine become more industrialized, everyone was pressured to start making that.
01:07:37.967 -->
01:07:42.621And orange wine almost disappeared even from Friuli Venezia Giulia.
01:07:42.621 -->
01:07:52.802Um, and it wasn't until kind of the kids of the generations that had made orange wine last, uh their grandparents had were the last people to make orange wine, and in the nineties.
01:07:52.802 -->
01:07:55.043The kids came of age, remembered.
01:07:55.043 -->
01:07:59.025They still had their like they had tasted some when they were very young.
01:07:59.025 -->
01:08:02.056And they were they were like, you know, what happened to that?
01:08:02.056 -->
01:08:17.065We want to remember this old way of wine making, and brought it back, much to the shock of the world, who had all kind of moved on from orange wine because white wine was so much simpler, so much cheaper, so much faster that within 50 years.
01:08:17.065 -->
01:08:21.208We had basically collectively forgotten that this style of wine even existed.
01:08:21.208 -->
01:08:25.582And the few places that were still making it were all like hung like Georgia, um, Hungary.
01:08:25.582 -->
01:08:28.184They were behind the iron curtain during those times.
01:08:28.184 -->
01:08:30.676So they weren't going out to the rest of the world.
01:08:30.676 -->
01:08:37.041So the rest of the world outside of the Soviet world had just collectively forgotten orange wine existed.
01:08:37.041 -->
01:08:39.722They brought it back in the nineties, shocked us all.
01:08:39.722 -->
01:08:42.295Everyone thought they like we were like, This what is this?
01:08:42.295 -->
01:08:43.135This isn't real.
01:08:43.135 -->
01:08:45.305This can't you you Don't pretend you like this.
01:08:45.305 -->
01:08:46.314This is disgusting.
01:08:46.314 -->
01:08:49.417Um and they basically had to slowly reintroduce us to it.
01:08:49.417 -->
01:08:58.953But fun fact about orange wine or one of the fun facts I always love to give, it is technically the oldest form of wine known to man because white wine grapes would have been the first we ever cultivated.
01:08:58.953 -->
01:09:02.817And uh so that would have been the f that would have been the OG wine.
01:09:02.817 -->
01:09:05.108So it's not a new thing.
01:09:05.207 -->
01:09:08.460Yeah, but it did come back in the nineties, thanks to that region.
01:09:08.460 -->
01:09:13.394It's called Romato or Copper Wine in the Friuli Venice Agilia region.
01:09:13.394 -->
01:09:17.399Um And so it definitely was gonna be a wine from that.
01:09:17.399 -->
01:09:19.359One that I needed the grit.
01:09:19.359 -->
01:09:20.621I needed the dust.
01:09:20.621 -->
01:09:24.421So none of this one to two week skin contact bullshit.
01:09:24.421 -->
01:09:27.724This was gonna be months on the skins.
01:09:27.724 -->
01:09:29.783I needed to make sure it was gonna be one of those.
01:09:29.783 -->
01:09:41.015And I did find a winery that not only did that, but um in honor of Chris and his Eaton documentary, it was a winery that just had the young generation taking over.
01:09:41.015 -->
01:09:45.265from the parents, uh, much like the story in the Eden documentary.
01:09:45.265 -->
01:09:47.632So we'll get to that in act three when I make the final reveal.
01:09:47.632 -->
01:09:49.002But Chris, how about you?
01:09:49.002 -->
01:09:50.926Where were you thinking during act two here?
01:09:50.926 -->
01:10:02.780Well, so I had a lot of changes during act two because remember, I'm, you know, going under this assumption that I didn't know anything about this damn film going into it, so I'd made my decision and then I watch act one.
01:10:02.780 -->
01:10:05.198So now we're in act two and I'm like, whoa, okay.
01:10:05.198 -->
01:10:06.810I gotta do something different.
01:10:06.810 -->
01:10:11.604So I'm in it for the long haul, because this movie is definitely an in it for the long haul.
01:10:11.604 -->
01:10:14.576So I wanted something a little bit more complexity.
01:10:15.768 -->
01:10:24.104I also one of the things I started to get excited about and picking up on is sort of the cultural exchange side of this.
01:10:24.104 -->
01:10:41.179So I love that this film is a group of Italian people making a film about American and iconic American culture and doing some kind of an interesting interpretation of that.
01:10:41.179 -->
01:10:43.429So that got really exciting for me.
01:10:43.429 -->
01:10:46.025And so I decided to flip it.
01:10:46.025 -->
01:11:01.930And instead go with an American winery that is doing an interpretation of a traditional French grape and in particular a French, you know, region um that is very, very well known.
01:11:02.029 -->
01:11:12.233And so that started to get kind of exciting to think about it in those terms, because you know, you sort of have that reverse cultural exchange.
01:11:12.273 -->
01:11:15.404Common, because we're talking the new world here.
01:11:15.404 -->
01:11:23.240And this is a California winery, that a lot of the time we take our inspiration from the old world.
01:11:23.240 -->
01:11:29.265And so it's sort of the reverse of what actually happened with this particular film.
01:11:29.913 -->
01:11:32.167so I got really, really excited about that.
01:11:32.167 -->
01:11:37.872And then the other thing that I really wanted that, you know, I think Dallas keeps mentioning is like the the smell.
01:11:37.872 -->
01:11:42.796This like movie is like it's got so much texture and scent to it.
01:11:42.796 -->
01:11:44.373I wanted heavy aromatic.
01:11:44.373 -->
01:11:45.221Nice.
01:11:45.221 -->
01:12:00.101really wanted it to be very aromatic so that like I'm like when I think of this wine I spend probably more time with my nose in there than I even do tasting it because it's like it just comes to life in the bouquet.
01:12:00.101 -->
01:12:04.682So that's that's kind of where I'm at at this point throughout All right.
01:12:05.025 -->
01:12:05.777Beautiful.
01:12:05.777 -->
01:12:06.890All right, guys.
01:12:06.890 -->
01:12:10.216Let's bring it on home with act three.
01:12:27.757 -->
01:12:31.882After a threatening sexual encounter with Frank, Jill is forced to auction the land.
01:12:31.882 -->
01:12:36.627However, Frank's henchmen intimidate bidders so Frank can buy it at a low price.
01:12:36.627 -->
01:12:45.408Harmonica appears with Cheyenne in tow and bids $5,000, which is the bounty on Cheyenne as a wanted fugitive, don't forget Frank.
01:12:45.702 -->
01:12:48.534made it look like Cheyenne is the one who killed the McBay.
01:12:48.534 -->
01:12:52.087So that's why he's the one exactly.
01:12:52.349 -->
01:12:54.329Frank is unsuccessful.
01:12:54.451 -->
01:12:55.150Yep, yep.
01:12:55.150 -->
01:12:59.855Frank is unsuccessful in buying Harmonica out and wonders why harmonica is pursuing him.
01:12:59.855 -->
01:13:06.774Morton the the wonder for through the whole movie, he wonders again why Harmonica is pursuing him.
01:13:06.774 -->
01:13:12.557Morton bribes Frank's own men to kill him, but Harmonica intervenes, helping Frank take out the lot of them.
01:13:12.557 -->
01:13:20.082When Jill asks why he saved Frank, Harmonica replies, I didn't let them kill him, and that's not the same thing.
01:13:20.184 -->
01:13:23.676Frank discovers the aftermath of a gun battle at Morton's train.
01:13:23.676 -->
01:13:28.909Bodies of Frank's men and Cheyenne's men lie strewn along the tracks and in Morton's private car.
01:13:28.909 -->
01:13:32.671He finds Morton crawling desperately to a nearby mud puddle.
01:13:32.671 -->
01:13:35.604Frank draws and cocks his gun to finish him off.
01:13:35.916 -->
01:13:38.426But then decides to let him suffer.
01:13:38.426 -->
01:13:46.469Morton dies with the sound of the ocean waves crashing in his mind, but no one actually kills him once again.
01:13:47.029 -->
01:13:55.091The tra the track lane crew is reaching sweetwater at last, and construction crews are busily turning the stacks of lumber into the beginnings of a town.
01:13:55.091 -->
01:13:59.832Harmonica sits at the farmyard gate as Cheyenne comes riding awkwardly in and goes inside.
01:13:59.832 -->
01:14:05.194Not quite his usual self, but again asks for coffee, which Jill has ready this time.
01:14:05.537 -->
01:14:10.220They both sense that outside something important is about to happen with Harmonica.
01:14:10.220 -->
01:14:13.002Cheyenne says he's Whitlin on a piece of wood.
01:14:13.002 -->
01:14:16.743I got the feeling when he stops Whitlin, something's gonna happen.
01:14:17.645 -->
01:14:21.086Frank rides up to the gate and Harmonica stops Whitlin.
01:14:21.126 -->
01:14:22.867They exchange a few words.
01:14:22.867 -->
01:14:26.389Frank admits he'll never be a businessman, just a man.
01:14:26.389 -->
01:14:32.953They acknowledge they're of an ancient race being killed off by the coming of the modern age, arriving right next to them as they speak.
01:14:32.953 -->
01:14:35.307Then Frank gets to the business between them.
01:14:35.307 -->
01:14:36.917The future don't matter to us.
01:14:36.917 -->
01:14:40.078Nothing matters now, not the land, not the money, not the woman.
01:14:40.078 -->
01:14:45.180I came here to see you, 'cause I know that now you'll tell me what you're after.
01:14:45.661 -->
01:14:48.402Only at the point of dying, Harmonica tells him.
01:14:48.402 -->
01:14:50.341Frank says, I know.
01:14:50.341 -->
01:14:54.182And they stride out into the farmyard to face off for the final show.
01:14:54.842 -->
01:14:59.505Inside, Cheyenne begins to clean up and shave while he watches the railroad move up.
01:14:59.505 -->
01:15:04.662He tells Jill she should take water out to the workers at the tracks, letting them enjoy the sight of the beautiful woman.
01:15:04.662 -->
01:15:09.192And if one of them should pat her back behind, she should just make believe it's nothing.
01:15:09.192 -->
01:15:10.432They earned it.
01:15:10.743 -->
01:15:11.199Damn.
01:15:11.199 -->
01:15:12.914Then they age well.
01:15:15.246 -->
01:15:23.113As Frank and Harmonica square up a few feet apart, preparing to duel, Harmonica remembers his history with Frank in a flashback.
01:15:23.113 -->
01:15:30.378A young Frank strides out of the desert to the isolated ruin of a Spanish mission, a lone arch with a bell hanging at the top.
01:15:30.378 -->
01:15:35.882He places a brand new harmonica into a young man's mouth, telling him to keep his loving brother happy.
01:15:36.224 -->
01:15:43.250The youth's hands are bound behind him, and his older brother also bound, is standing on his shoulders with a noof around his neck.
01:15:43.319 -->
01:15:48.872Frank and his men wait for the inevitable moment when the boy's legs will give way and complete the hanging.
01:15:48.872 -->
01:15:52.353The doomed man curses Frank and kicks his younger brother away.
01:15:52.353 -->
01:15:56.632The harmonica drops out of the young man's mouth as he falls into the dust.
01:15:57.533 -->
01:15:59.814Frank and Harmonica draw and shoot.
01:15:59.814 -->
01:16:04.615It's Frank who turns around and staggers a few shit steps before he falls to his knees.
01:16:04.615 -->
01:16:08.417He asks Harmonica again one last time, who are you?
01:16:08.537 -->
01:16:12.967In answer, Harmonica places the old beaten up harmonica into Frank's mouth.
01:16:13.207 -->
01:16:14.238Frank remembers.
01:16:14.238 -->
01:16:19.319He sees the image of the boy falling into the dust and the harmonica dropping out of his mouth.
01:16:19.621 -->
01:16:24.382Frank falls lifelessly into the dust and the harmonica drops out of his mouth.
01:16:24.882 -->
01:16:29.145Diane tells Jill he's not the right man for her, but neither is Harmonica.
01:16:29.145 -->
01:16:33.006There's something inside a man like that, he tells her, something to do with death.
01:16:33.006 -->
01:16:37.238Once Harmonica has dealt with Frank, he will come inside, pick up his things, and move on.
01:16:37.238 -->
01:16:39.851Harmonica comes in.
01:16:39.851 -->
01:16:45.766True to sh and true to Cheyenne's prediction, picks up his belongings and tells Jill he has to go.
01:16:45.766 -->
01:16:49.009Jill is wearing a dress whose top reveals her cleavage.
01:16:49.009 -->
01:16:56.094They share a lingering look, and then he opens the front door and surveys surveys the developing street scene outside.
01:16:56.814 -->
01:16:59.617Going to be a beautiful town, Sweetwater, he says.
01:16:59.636 -->
01:17:01.818Jill hopes he will come back someday.
01:17:02.059 -->
01:17:06.282With a doubtful someday, Harmonica leaves.
01:17:06.796 -->
01:17:11.770Cheyenne too says goodbye and pats Jill on the behind, telling her to make believe it's not.
01:17:12.631 -->
01:17:17.354As the two men ride away, Cheyenne pauses to get off his horse before dropping to the ground.
01:17:17.414 -->
01:17:22.668Harmonica discovers the Cheyenne has been gut shot, the work of Morton himself during the gun battle of the train.
01:17:22.668 -->
01:17:25.280There you go.
01:17:25.280 -->
01:17:27.882Cheyenne asks Harmonica to go away.
01:17:27.882 -->
01:17:29.554He doesn't want the other man to see him die.
01:17:29.554 -->
01:17:33.488Harmonica turns away and soon hears Cheyenne fall over dead.
01:17:33.488 -->
01:17:40.537Just then the work train rolls into sweetwater and stops the The station which has its station design in place.
01:17:40.618 -->
01:17:47.851Harmonica takes Diane's body away as Jill carries water out to the newly arrived railroad workers.
01:17:47.851 -->
01:17:49.154Roll credits.
01:17:49.480 -->
01:17:53.970Yeah, but he's Wait, I gotta say one thing we cut out.
01:17:53.970 -->
01:17:56.756So I got fifteen minutes just so you guys know and sort.
01:17:56.756 -->
01:17:59.703Okay, we can wrap that up and yeah, we can we can probably get shot in.
01:17:59.703 -->
01:18:00.744Two thoughts on the movie.
01:18:00.744 -->
01:18:03.833I mean this is it's it's a perfect ending.
01:18:03.833 -->
01:18:07.774Ki I mean there's just everything comes together in all the ways.
01:18:07.774 -->
01:18:17.438It's tragic, it's semi heroic, and progress arrives and uh the and the the gunslingers right away.
01:18:17.877 -->
01:18:18.278Yeah.
01:18:18.278 -->
01:18:19.800They get their showdown.
01:18:19.800 -->
01:18:31.069You know, and it's like well, 'cause like in a Sergio Leone film, ever since, definitely for a few dollars more a second film, they always had the ending of the showdown.
01:18:31.069 -->
01:18:39.867And that gets so hard as a filmmaker, really any artist, when you get known for one iconic thing, how do you find a way to one up it?
01:18:39.867 -->
01:18:45.739And one of the things that's so cool about this movie is that there's no way he was going to be able to one up.
01:18:45.739 -->
01:18:56.250The epic showdown at the end of the good, the bad, and the ugly, which is also like a, you know, five-minute sequence all built to music and all three of those characters doing their showdown.
01:18:56.250 -->
01:18:57.546He wasn't gonna do that.
01:18:57.546 -->
01:19:10.143And so in the end, he gives you your showdown that you want and deserve and know, but sort of reminds you that it's actually kind of the minor part of the film.
01:19:10.143 -->
01:19:10.483Yeah.
01:19:10.483 -->
01:19:27.564Like the the actual reveal of why harmonica wants to kill Frank is somewhat unsatisfying because it's satisfying in the sense that you get it, he's scarred because he feels responsible for the death of his own brother.
01:19:27.564 -->
01:19:32.207And you know, you tie the harmonica thing back in there, which is a great plot point.
01:19:32.207 -->
01:19:33.707But it's like that's it.
01:19:33.707 -->
01:19:42.972And at the same time it feels totally satisfying because it's what you should get out of it.
01:19:42.972 -->
01:19:53.195But they solve it through Doing through the score, really, because the score is the thing that has been building to do all that.
01:19:53.195 -->
01:19:55.266I mean, we haven't talked about the score since the beginning.
01:19:55.266 -->
01:20:04.845The score has four main themes, and every other piece of it is a different instrumentation of that same exact score.
01:20:04.845 -->
01:20:15.833And the original score that you hear is the original harmonica piece, which is the same piece that comes back for the end and it actually marries with Frank's theme.
01:20:15.877 -->
01:20:18.581So that Frank's theme has harmonica in it.
01:20:18.581 -->
01:20:31.188So they solve it all through the score and tie it all back together, even though like, you know, you don't necessarily need to it's not like a complicated backstory as to why the hell harmonica wants to kill Frank.
01:20:31.188 -->
01:20:46.384I think uh I think the central I don't know thesis, but idea of this film is the micro versus the macro is like the the filmmaker is essentially saying, look, you were focused on this individual grudge between two individu two people.
01:20:46.384 -->
01:20:54.568If you would just zoom out for one moment, he's saying that when it comes to the money and the the gunslingers, that concept, that idea.
01:20:54.568 -->
01:21:01.000But he's also saying that in terms of, you know, the individual lives of these people, really important to the people.
01:21:01.000 -->
01:21:12.219Not important if you just zoomed out and realized that there's an entire wave uh happening in the background of civilization that is going to make all of that obsolete and unimportant.
01:21:12.219 -->
01:21:12.569Yeah.
01:21:12.569 -->
01:21:21.747And Well and and to to Chris's point about this this revelation of what Harmonica was doing, it's such a personal just between these two men having nothing to do with absolutely anything.
01:21:21.747 -->
01:21:23.108It's so small.
01:21:23.408 -->
01:21:25.032With anything, but that's it.
01:21:25.032 -->
01:21:25.752Yeah.
01:21:27.083 -->
01:21:27.384Yeah.
01:21:27.384 -->
01:21:30.005And they both place it as the greatest important.
01:21:30.005 -->
01:21:40.179That's why that scene and you read the all of the dialogue that Frank says to Harmonica when he shows up at the game, because Harmonica's sitting there waiting for him.
01:21:40.179 -->
01:21:43.819He knows that Frank can't not go on living, right?
01:21:43.819 -->
01:21:47.242Knowing that there's this guy who has beef with him.
01:21:47.242 -->
01:21:54.283And Frank throws away whatever evolution he was gonna do with Morton, like I'm never gonna be a b you what, I'm never gonna be a businessman.
01:21:54.283 -->
01:21:55.626All I care about is this.
01:21:55.626 -->
01:21:55.895Right.
01:21:55.895 -->
01:21:58.510All I care about is having this fucking showdown with you.
01:21:58.510 -->
01:22:00.573And I'm throwing everything else away to have it.
01:22:00.573 -->
01:22:01.217Yeah.
01:22:01.217 -->
01:22:12.448And it's a great study of masculinity and obsession and all the things that you try and build your identity around that then like make you blind so actually matters.
01:22:12.448 -->
01:22:21.510And all that's left is the lone woman after all the men have left and died and taking care of everything and ushering in the new wave of the future.
01:22:21.510 -->
01:22:21.730right.
01:22:21.730 -->
01:22:23.400It's a great fucking movie.
01:22:23.400 -->
01:22:24.810It's a great movie.
01:22:24.810 -->
01:22:25.449It is.
01:22:25.449 -->
01:22:26.131All right.
01:22:26.131 -->
01:22:29.292So let's wrap this up because Chris has limited left.
01:22:30.512 -->
01:22:33.614We we we just ramble, ramble, ramble.
01:22:34.595 -->
01:22:49.663I'll start with the wine reveal here, because mine mine's gonna be relatively simple, but you know, it's orange wine, it's from the Fruit Friuli region, and it is a wine called Aransa, which is Friulian slang for or A-R-A-N-S-A-T.
01:22:49.663 -->
01:22:59.033Um and this is it's a family run organization 18 hectares of organically farmed vines, 12 kilometers from the Slovenian border.
01:22:59.033 -->
01:23:07.779This is a family affair with the younger generation inspired to take over for their parents after enjoying a bottle of Jruliano in the family vineyard as a king.
01:23:07.779 -->
01:23:09.641This is Italy, after all.
01:23:09.641 -->
01:23:13.663So this is a blend of Pinot Grigio and Savion Blanc.
01:23:13.663 -->
01:23:19.967Natural fermentation on the skins occurring in stainless steel tanks at warmer temperatures around 24 degrees Celsius.
01:23:20.149 -->
01:23:20.929Pretty warm.
01:23:20.929 -->
01:23:22.210That's pretty up there.
01:23:22.210 -->
01:23:25.831Post fermentation masturbation on skins lasting 90 days.
01:23:25.831 -->
01:23:28.654So three months on the skins.
01:23:28.713 -->
01:23:32.355the wine is unfiltered and racked twice prior to bottling.
01:23:32.355 -->
01:23:36.269So this this guy, this is dust in the glass.
01:23:36.269 -->
01:23:38.418This is on the skin.
01:23:38.418 -->
01:23:44.844Oh, buddy, I I had a Mexican orange wine that was 180 days on the skin.
01:23:44.844 -->
01:23:47.659Oh when I when I drained the bottle.
01:23:47.659 -->
01:23:52.684The bottle had like stains like a red wine bottle has often, like when it's a really dark one.
01:23:52.684 -->
01:23:55.805Like it was like stained orange all up and down.
01:23:55.805 -->
01:23:57.676I was like, wow, I've never seen that before.
01:23:57.676 -->
01:24:01.989Um, this one's not quite that bad, but this was this still is dusty.
01:24:01.989 -->
01:24:06.543It's got the grit, it's got the tannins, you are chewing on it, it's got the textures.
01:24:06.543 -->
01:24:14.099And the orange, you know, you've got the honey, you've got the apricot, you've got the minerality, you've got that bite and bitterness of the tannins.
01:24:14.099 -->
01:24:15.670You need some bitterness to go with.
01:24:15.670 -->
01:24:49.404movie too like don't do easy drinking guys you need something that's gonna you know this is a this is a movie that has hope for the future but it's about the bitterness of end of endings um and you know the grudges you hold from the past and yes I mean this is this is not we are kicking and screaming into the new era in this movie it's not happening naturally um everyone's trying to you know steal rob kill from everyone else in order to stake their claim and stake s stake out their place in the new coming order.
01:24:49.404 -->
01:24:54.006Um so you need a wine that matches all of those things, the textures of this film.
01:24:54.006 -->
01:25:06.811Um and also being a Western, orange wine, if you ever do a Western or post-apocalyptic movie, which are the two things Western progress hasn't arrived or is about to arrive in post-apocalyptic, it's gone away.
01:25:06.811 -->
01:25:12.738And either way, that's where I think orange wine often comes into play, this very ancient type of wine.
01:25:12.738 -->
01:25:14.958That progress does tend to obliterate.
01:25:14.958 -->
01:25:20.671Um, and we have to very consciously choose to bring back and to keep uh to keep making.
01:25:20.671 -->
01:25:24.162So that's my wine, Aran Sat, that's its full name.
01:25:24.252 -->
01:25:26.332you can find this generally twenty, thirty dollars a bottle.
01:25:26.332 -->
01:25:30.323It's relatively affordable and has everything I wanted in this bad boy.
01:25:30.323 -->
01:25:33.636So all right, Dallas, kick us take it take it over.
01:25:33.636 -->
01:25:34.456What's next?
01:25:34.456 -->
01:25:36.940Yeah, let's run through this real quick 'cause you've got what, three minutes left.
01:25:36.940 -->
01:25:39.554All right, so uh I'll do the th six.
01:25:39.743 -->
01:25:40.667Six.
01:25:40.779 -->
01:25:44.310Chris, you go first, so if you have to bail while Dallas is doing his, let's go with that.
01:25:44.310 -->
01:25:45.413So go ahead, Chris.
01:25:45.413 -->
01:25:46.136You go next.
01:25:46.136 -->
01:25:47.936Yeah, I'll try and keep it kind of quick.
01:25:47.936 -->
01:25:55.868So in the end, I ended up with a Syrah because I absolutely love that smoky nature, right?
01:25:55.868 -->
01:25:57.529And I like the acidity.
01:25:57.529 -->
01:25:59.890It's definitely a new world Syrah.
01:25:59.890 -->
01:26:04.230It's got all that like texture, but it's got that, you know, fresh acidity.
01:26:04.230 -->
01:26:10.762And so, like, this to me is the blending of the new and the old all coming back around together.
01:26:10.762 -->
01:26:13.713So I went with a 2023.
01:26:13.720 -->
01:26:16.150Pax Sonoma Hillside Syrah.
01:26:16.150 -->
01:26:17.970I absolutely love Pax.
01:26:17.970 -->
01:26:20.992Um if anybody, you know, has ever heard of them.
01:26:20.992 -->
01:26:22.412Yeah, P-A-X.
01:26:22.412 -->
01:26:24.512You guys ever heard of Pax Mall?
01:26:24.613 -->
01:26:25.002Yeah.
01:26:25.002 -->
01:26:26.854So they're up in Sebastopool.
01:26:26.854 -->
01:26:27.963my goodness.
01:26:27.963 -->
01:26:30.864So Pax loves the Northern Rhone.
01:26:30.864 -->
01:26:33.875And so it's this family-owned winery.
01:26:33.876 -->
01:26:37.095And you know, they've been around since 2000.
01:26:37.095 -->
01:26:39.957And you know, Pax is like an aromatic master.
01:26:39.957 -->
01:26:42.989He's, you know, big into whole cluster.
01:26:42.989 -->
01:26:44.729Carbonic maceration.
01:26:44.729 -->
01:26:46.832He doesn't, it doesn't see new oak.
01:26:46.832 -->
01:26:48.453It's all in concrete.
01:26:48.453 -->
01:27:06.746So what you get is a very fresh expression, but he purposefully chooses all of these very cool climate, you know, Sonoma Coast, California, Syrah vineyards that get those epic aromatics, man.
01:27:06.746 -->
01:27:12.033It's like you get all that meatiness, you get all the smoke, you get like that.
01:27:12.033 -->
01:27:17.997wild feral nature that you get from like a coat roti or an ermitage or that kind of thing.
01:27:17.997 -->
01:27:26.243But it's also mixed with the very high acidity that you get from sort of that new California wine style, right?
01:27:26.243 -->
01:27:31.148Because it's like his stuff comes in at like, I think this wine's like 12.8, you know?
01:27:31.148 -->
01:27:35.329So it comes in very low ABV and high acidity.
01:27:35.329 -->
01:27:37.572It's super ageable too.
01:27:37.572 -->
01:27:42.740Like it's, you know, the tannins really start to Calm down, it gives you a nice good mouthfeel.
01:27:42.740 -->
01:27:48.854But it's like every time you go back to that nose, it's evolving and changing on you.
01:27:48.854 -->
01:28:03.305And so it's like it's a super fun wine to have with this kind of a movie because if you allow yourself to take a break and like focus on the film, the thing is evolving the entire time.
01:28:03.305 -->
01:28:03.699Absolutely.
01:28:03.699 -->
01:28:08.702So is so are all your assumptions about what you cared about.
01:28:08.725 -->
01:28:12.067And that's one of things that we've been talking about this whole way through, right?
01:28:12.067 -->
01:28:37.514So much of what they do with this film is mess with your own assumptions because they, you know, sort of hold back the things that you hold dear and think that you care about in the Western and then embed all of those subplots, which are actually the most important pieces, to be able to make a really interesting cultural commentary on an Italian perspective of American culture.
01:28:37.622 -->
01:28:39.342And it's all in there.
01:28:39.342 -->
01:28:43.926And I think this this wine very much has a lot of that um in there.
01:28:43.926 -->
01:28:48.259It's pretty relatively small production, but you know, you can get it online.
01:28:48.259 -->
01:28:50.110You can obviously get it from them.
01:28:50.110 -->
01:28:54.7342023 is a dynamite vintage because it's a super cool vintage.
01:28:54.734 -->
01:29:01.387It always does better in a cool vintage because it doesn't get too alcoholic, too fruity, anything like that.
01:29:01.387 -->
01:29:07.282So um PAX Pill said Syrah.
01:29:07.568 -->
01:29:08.167it.
01:29:08.167 -->
01:29:10.708Real quick.
01:29:10.708 -->
01:29:11.288All right.
01:29:11.288 -->
01:29:18.931So as I said, the Bittners are husband and wife team, you harking back to your Eden uh central characters.
01:29:19.931 -->
01:29:24.404I wanted something, of course, that was dry, but also very sleek.
01:29:24.404 -->
01:29:27.595This film is very sleek, the whole world is sleek, it is alluring.
01:29:27.595 -->
01:29:32.430Um, like we said, every moment of this film just fucking pulls you in, draws you in.
01:29:32.430 -->
01:29:36.131Um there we talked about the smell, the sensory thing, right?
01:29:36.371 -->
01:29:40.622the there's all this sort of floral in this this this wine.
01:29:40.622 -->
01:29:43.172There's the herbal thing, a really acute herbal.
01:29:43.172 -->
01:29:54.395Um it is the region is, as I said, is on the same uh lines of latitude as uh the filming location.
01:29:54.395 -->
01:29:57.067the region is the Obernes Mountains in Spain, of course.
01:29:57.067 -->
01:30:00.862And if you know anything about Spanish wine, of course, it is one of the regions of Rioja.
01:30:00.862 -->
01:30:04.145Um, so I went with, and this of course is a blend.
01:30:04.145 -->
01:30:12.972Uh it is 85% biura grape, 10 pent 10% ganache and ganache blanca, and then five percent tamperno blanca.
01:30:12.972 -->
01:30:21.260Um and uh I went with, of course, here is the bottle, one of the new new bottles, if you can see it is the Valganon, the Allegre Valgan.
01:30:21.260 -->
01:30:23.845oh okay.
01:30:23.845 -->
01:30:24.448That's okay.
01:30:24.448 -->
01:30:24.930That's okay.
01:30:24.930 -->
01:30:25.945It's really it blows out.
01:30:25.945 -->
01:30:26.525Yeah, yeah.
01:30:26.525 -->
01:30:29.688It is it's it is lovely.
01:30:29.688 -->
01:30:32.850Uh as I said, the Vintners keep their lots very small.
01:30:32.850 -->
01:30:38.573Um they source from it is the allegre balgan.
01:30:39.384 -->
01:30:40.074I'm butchering that.
01:30:40.074 -->
01:30:41.515It's Spanish, of course.
01:30:41.605 -->
01:30:43.256but yeah.
01:30:44.118 -->
01:30:47.734but We'll have it down below in the show notes description of this episode.
01:30:47.734 -->
01:30:48.414Absolutely well.
01:30:48.414 -->
01:30:56.221On the nose, you get some of that limestone, you get all that sort of uh mineral thing, you get the herbal thing, it's dry, you get great texture.
01:30:56.221 -->
01:31:04.340Um, it is very fruity, but at the end it leaves you very chalky and with that dry sensation, which is exactly what this film is.
01:31:04.340 -->
01:31:06.552We talked about the micro and the macro and pulling out.
01:31:06.552 -->
01:31:09.706Um, and uh yeah, that's what I got.
01:31:09.706 -->
01:31:11.375It's fantastic, and you should try it.
01:31:11.375 -->
01:31:13.082Woo! All right, everybody.
01:31:13.082 -->
01:31:18.846That wraps up today with our epic discussion of once about a time in the west with here Chris McGilvery.
01:31:18.846 -->
01:31:25.771Go watch his Eden twenty twenty four documentary now streaming for free on Plex, or you can rent it on Apple TV or YouTube and elsewhere.
01:31:25.771 -->
01:31:27.193Chris, thank you so much.
01:31:27.193 -->
01:31:29.184This has been a blast.
01:31:29.350 -->
01:31:29.751Awesome.
01:31:29.751 -->
01:31:31.083Thank you guys so much.
01:31:31.083 -->
01:31:37.938It's one of my favorite movies and it was so fun to get to think about it through the lens of pairing it with a wine, man.
01:31:37.938 -->
01:31:39.545What a cool d Fantastic.
01:31:39.545 -->
01:31:40.770Thanks for coming, man.
01:31:40.770 -->
01:31:41.957Yeah.
01:31:42.126 -->
01:31:43.516Thanks so much for listening, everyone.
01:31:43.516 -->
01:31:48.599We hope you enjoyed this epic chat about Once Upon a Time in the West with director Chris McGilvray.
01:31:48.599 -->
01:32:04.154Once again, make sure to check out his feature-length wine documentary, Eden, from 2024, about the Mount Eden Vineyard and Winery in the Santa Cruz Mountains, considered to have the longest lineage of Chardonnay and Pinot Noir in all of North America.
01:32:04.154 -->
01:32:12.131Currently streaming on Plex, at least here in the States, and also available to rent or buy on Apple, YouTube, and Fandango.
01:32:12.131 -->
01:32:18.716Now, before you go, if you love what we do here, we ask only one thing broken down into about 12 sub things.
01:32:18.716 -->
01:32:21.037Follow and subscribe to us.
01:32:21.037 -->
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01:32:29.704Also tell a friend or fellow Cinephile or Owenophile about us, especially if they're both.
01:32:29.704 -->
01:32:34.038If they're a Cinephile and an Oenophile, they have got to be listening to us.
01:32:34.038 -->
01:32:36.921There's gotta like what, a few dozen of us crazy bastards in the world.
01:32:36.921 -->
01:32:43.104So for fuck's sake, they should all be listening to the only Wine and movie pairing podcast in existence.
01:32:43.104 -->
01:32:43.975Even better.
01:32:43.975 -->
01:32:49.319And to endear yourself even more to our completely self-obsessed hearts, go follow us on Substack.
01:32:49.319 -->
01:32:56.882Just go to Vintertainment Studios.com, where we'll keep you all up to date on all our upcoming live in-person wine and movie events.
01:32:56.882 -->
01:32:58.823The first one scheduled for June 19th.
01:32:58.823 -->
01:32:59.404Yes.
01:32:59.404 -->
01:33:04.817Juneteenth, we have a series of four short films, each paired with the wine.
01:33:04.817 -->
01:33:06.408we will tell you where in just a moment.
01:33:06.408 -->
01:33:08.588Those tickets are gonna go on sale the first week of June.
01:33:08.588 -->
01:33:09.826So next week.
01:33:09.826 -->
01:33:13.087We will give you more information on that in next week's episode.
01:33:13.087 -->
01:33:14.167But we have limited space.
01:33:14.167 -->
01:33:18.268So if you're in the LA area, you will definitely want to check this out.
01:33:18.268 -->
01:33:20.639go follow us on Substack Entertainment Studios.com.
01:33:20.639 -->
01:33:25.610We will also where you will also find collabs with other writers, filmmakers, wine peeps.
01:33:25.610 -->
01:33:33.132If you ask us nicely, even on Substack, DM us, slip into our DMs, and we will help you with your own personal wine and movie pairing at home.
01:33:33.132 -->
01:33:35.613Tell us what you're watching, tell us what kind of wine you got.
01:33:35.613 -->
01:33:37.836We will help you find the right thing to pair it with.
01:33:37.836 -->
01:33:38.595we love doing this.
01:33:38.595 -->
01:33:40.766We are okay with doing it more.
01:33:40.967 -->
01:33:44.029And many thanks to our sponsor, Curated Wine Shop.
01:33:44.029 -->
01:33:47.131No idea where to begin finding a wine that pairs with your movie.
01:33:47.131 -->
01:33:47.850that's okay.
01:33:47.850 -->
01:33:49.891Almost literally nobody does.
01:33:49.891 -->
01:33:51.533But curated is here to help.
01:33:51.533 -->
01:33:55.984They accept every entertainment-inspired challenge and will curate the selection to match your palette.
01:33:55.984 -->
01:34:01.579Just tell them what you're trying to pair with, your budget, your preferences, and they will show you the way.
01:34:01.579 -->
01:34:10.673Curated is a boutique wine shop on La Brea Avenue, Mid City Los Angeles, founded and operated by Peeps Currently and previously part of the entertainment ecosystem.
01:34:10.673 -->
01:34:14.005Johnny, Kelly, Allison, and Mia, they are all fantastic.
01:34:14.005 -->
01:34:14.795Go meet them.
01:34:14.795 -->
01:34:27.000They carry an ever-changing, wide-ranging selection of small lot artisanal wines from the known and comforting to the completely unique reds, whites, roses, oranges, sparklings, dry wines, sweet wines, everything in between.
01:34:27.000 -->
01:34:29.400Go check them out if you're in the LA area.
01:34:29.400 -->
01:34:31.304And that is where our June.
01:34:31.304 -->
01:34:34.064Event of four short films paired with wines will be.
01:34:34.064 -->
01:34:37.336So definitely check them out and be ready to snag your ticket.
01:34:37.336 -->
01:34:42.476We have about 30 spaces for this event, so they're gonna go bloody fast.
01:34:42.476 -->
01:34:45.037Find them online at curateddashwines.com.
01:34:45.037 -->
01:34:55.261They do ship, so if you want to talk to them online, send them an email, they'll help you with your wanted movie pairing, and they can ship it to you if you're not gonna come into the store if you're too far away to come into the storefront proper.
01:34:55.261 -->
01:35:01.112That is curateddashwines.com for them and vintertainmentstudios.com for us, Vintertainment Bros.
01:35:01.112 -->
01:35:02.112Thank you so much for listening.
01:35:02.112 -->
01:35:05.963We will be back in one week with another wine and entertainment pairing, Foyov Entertainment.
01:35:05.963 -->
01:35:14.028It will be, in fact, 2008's Bottle Shock, starring Alan Rickman, Bill Pullman, Chris Pine, Chris Pine's Wig, and Rachel Taylor.
01:35:14.028 -->
01:35:20.331Next week is the 50th anniversary of the real life event that that movie chronicles, The Judgment of Paris.
01:35:20.331 -->
01:35:27.256So if you have not seen this movie yet, you've got until next week to do it, and then come join us as we talk all about what the Judgment of Paris was.
01:35:27.256 -->
01:35:39.470How it changed the wine world forever, especially the world of California wine, why it was so important, why it was not so important, um, and talk everything about this movie Bottle Shock, which I've I've loved for a long, long time.
01:35:39.470 -->
01:35:47.662It's very cheesy, it is not accurate to real life, um, but it's a lot of fun, and we are gonna talk all about it uh and the judgment of Paris.
01:35:47.662 -->
01:35:51.194So join us next week for that, and we will see you then.
01:35:51.194 -->
01:35:52.094Ciao.
