OM DENNE EPISODE
Most leaders who cannot delegate assume it is a process problem. Susan Drumm has studied both sides of it, and her answer is that the skill gap is real but it is rarely the whole story. Underneath it is usually a belief you have been carrying since long before you managed anyone.
Susan has spent two decades coaching C-suite executives, and her work centers on pattern recognition and pattern disruption. In this conversation she explains how she spots those patterns in a leadership team, why leaders resist looking at them, and what it takes to change one in the moment.
She shares the story of a leader whose habit of sugarcoating feedback traced back to being the middle child nobody paid attention to, and what shifted once he could name it. She makes a direct case that staying in pretense with your team destroys trust rather than protecting it. She walks through her four steps for catching a pattern and shifting it, explains why she uses the Enneagram over DISC or MBTI, and gets into the neuroscience of how music speeds up new habit formation.
Worth your time if you manage people and keep running into the same problem in different clothing.
About our guest
Susan Drumm is a CEO advisor, executive coach, and the USA Today bestselling author of The Leader's Playlist. She founded Meritage Leadership 20 years ago, where she and her team work with senior leaders and executive teams on pattern recognition, team performance, and leadership development.
Her background is unusual for the field. She holds degrees from Harvard Law School and Carnegie Mellon University, plus a master's in acting from the London Academy of Music and Dramatic Art. Before starting her own firm, she worked as a consultant at the Boston Consulting Group and later at NBC. She describes herself as an Enneagram type seven, which she says explains her habit of pulling unrelated disciplines together.
TIMESTAMPS
- 00:00 Intro and sponsor
- 02:00 How Susan finds patterns in an executive team
- 04:05 Why the old playlist starts in childhood
- 06:05 Why this work goes better with playfulness
- 07:15 How sugarcoating feedback wrecked one leader's results
- 08:50 Why the pattern traced back to being the middle child
- 09:50 Why staying in pretense destroys trust
- 10:45 How to tell if a pattern is helping or hurting you
- 11:40 Harvard Law to acting school and why it all connects
- 17:20 What the neuroscience says about music and the brain
- 19:00 How to pick music that actually shifts your state
- 20:45 The four steps to catch a pattern and change it
- 23:40 Why Susan uses the Enneagram over DISC or MBTI
- 27:15 Where to start if you want to do this work
- 28:30 Why leaders who cannot delegate end up burned out
- 31:20 How leaders should be approaching AI right now
- 34:00 A first step if you feel stuck and cannot name why
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Resources mentioned: The Leader's Playlist Free leadership quiz Enneagram Applied Meritage Leadership
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