TWIG’s The Spellbook – Episode 34 – Horror Games

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In a world within our world, they've created a world unlike.
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Any other world.
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Dungeons and Dragons.
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And a game like D & D fuels their imagination
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and makes them feel special. The ogre is amused by
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your joke and allows you to pass. Dad, I'm just curious.
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What is it about Dungeons and Dragons that suddenly leapt
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out at you at age 60? Dungeons, it'd be the dungeons.
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Just what I love about role-playing games is being told
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exactly what to do.
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Me too.
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You should introduce yourselves.
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Hey, guys, what's going on? You are listening to 93.3.
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This is CFRU, Guelph and Campus Community Radio, and thisweekingeek.net.
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This is The Spellbook. This is the show that is
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dedicated to the tabletop role-playing game hobby. Whether you are
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checking out the depths of dungeons in the world of
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Galarian in... Pathfinder, perhaps you are looking to become the
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new Avatar in Avatar The Last Airbender, or maybe you
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are hanging out with Pinkie Pie and Rainbow Dash and
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you're 20% cooler in the My Little Pony TTRPG, to
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which there are several, you found the right show. Once again,
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my name is Mike the Birdman, but I'm not alone
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as we discuss strange things that go bump in the
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night and what makes them cool. From the Feywild City,
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or the Shadowfell for this month, from the great place
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of London, Ontario, Canada.
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Hi there. I am Magical Hack, also known as Damien,
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and it's rather dark and spooky out here tonight. It is.
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We are recording tonight, so this show is not live
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in the studio, so sorry to shatter the illusion of radio.
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But it is spooky season. It is October, so we've
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had a chance to talk about a few different things
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here on the show. Now, we did start off the
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month kind of wholesome with fetch my blade from hit
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point press we've actually gotten some good conversation about that
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we actually had a fellow reach out on discord so
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shout out to them and they've been listening for a
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little while turns out they've been a twig fan for
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a little bit but they didn't know about the spell
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book so that was kind of fun also saw some
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people talking about us on the Guelph subreddit and the
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University of Guelph subreddit so thank you to everybody who's
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out there listening which kind of brings us you're awesome
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That's right. And that kind of brings us to a
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big deal. That's going to happen later on this week.
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So on Saturday at Peter Clark call in the UC
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from 11 AM till 10 PM, give or take me
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and Damien are going to be running games all day
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as part of Griff con shadow, which is the annual
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event that happens usually during October as kind of the
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lead up to Griff con that happens in April every year.
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Once again, at Peter Clark called this year, We're probably
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going to be running Marvel, multi-universal role-playing, maybe Aliens Evolved Edition,
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and maybe Invincible. We're not quite sure what we're going
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to be running. I think the only thing we're trying
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to say is we're not running D & D. You're
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going to have to live with that. But that's okay.
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It's always nice to experience new game systems, learn something,
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have a little bit of fun. We're looking forward to
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seeing everybody who comes out to say hi to us. uh,
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on Saturday. So look for the big guy in the wheelchair.
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And I don't know, Damien, how would you describe yourself?
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How do you stand out?
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The scrawny adult goth. Um, it, that's the only way
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I can really describe how I look.
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There you go. So we're not hard to find. Look
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at this. I'm pretty sure you're going to hear me
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coming down the elevator. Don't worry. I will embarrass you.
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That being said, uh, Today's show took a little bit
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of a pivot. We're going to be talking about a
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different game system this week. We're going to be talking
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about ideas this week. Next week, we're going to talk
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about Monster of the Week as kind of our big
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Halloween show. This one is going to be more of
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a freeform show. Just kind of talking about different horror
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ideas and different scary things you can do in your games.
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Because we wanted to do something a little bit more freeform,
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but we weren't quite sure how to fit it in.
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So what spurred this idea is if you're a, if
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you're like a friend of mine in real life, you
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know that I love horror movies. And one of my
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favorite genres is zombies. And obviously I grew up with
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the Romero dead universe. There's a walking dead TT RPG
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that was put out by free league. There's dead rain
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by palladium. All flesh must be eaten. There's a number
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of different zombie games out there. There's even one on
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Kickstarter called Ink Ribbon right now. Haven't had a chance
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to look at that game's quick start rules. But that
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kind of got me thinking, what type of games can
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you run scary stuff in? Because I remember there was
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a conversation that was in the space for years and
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I always found it kind of stupid. Well, maybe not stupid,
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but maybe not particularly nuanced might be a more delicate
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way to put it. is that you can't do horror
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in D & D. And I would completely disagree. It
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all depends on how you set the proverbial table, because
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people will say, well, what about Ravenloft? Yes, 100% correct.
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But Ravenloft is its own vibe, its own setting. It
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has a lot of lore. You can kind of play
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with it however you want. But let's remove Ravenloft from
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the conversation, because I feel that's a little too easy
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for us to say... crap uh strahd shows up yeah
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we're gonna have to take a look at that at
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5 23 um but it's like it's too easy it's
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just okay werewolves show up frankenstein shenanigans the end and
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i got to thinking yeah go ahead.
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Damien so honestly and this is probably going to get
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me some hate from our listeners and if that's the
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case you can email us at the spellbook show at gmail.com
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um I don't even really consider Ravenloft horror. Yeah, it
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has some scary and spoopy themes, but in its current incarnation,
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and this is mainly the fault of 5E, 5.5, it
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misses the mark. It's hard, especially in D & D,
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because I can see where the whole you can't run
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horror in D & D comes from. It's hard to
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threaten characters or make them scared when they are effectively
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or very nearly all-powerful. And that's part of D & D.
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It's how the mechanics work. It's cool. So you, in
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my opinion, you kind of have to go to a different...
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you kind of have to go after different aspects. You
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kind of can't go after the characters. You have to
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go after the players. And I'll expand on that a
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little bit later, but sorry for jumping in there.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, because you're like very much right.
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Because like one of the things I love to do
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is I love to use scenarios. And one of my
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favorite scenarios is the zombie outbreak. And that sounds boring
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until you start to nuance it a little bit. And
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what I mean by that is, look at something like
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Resident Evil. You might say, well, how the hell does
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that function in a D & D campaign? Picture a
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city like Baldur's Gate, Waterdeep, Neverwinter, any of the major cities. Now,
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maybe scale it down. Like, for example, me and Damien
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play in my homebrew sort of Forgotten Realm. It happens
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in the Forgotten Realms, but I have a city called Cambridge.
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I know, original name.
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Um.
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And it's a city of about 40,000 to 50,000 people,
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which is fairly significant for the D & D world.
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But the idea that I've toyed with, and now I
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can't do it because Damien's in this group, so I
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have to wait a year for him to forget this
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conversation ever happened. I will never forget. I love the
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idea of the Raccoon City outbreak from Resident Evil. And
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what does that mean? You start small. People start going missing.
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Suddenly a wizard's tower or something... suddenly the doors don't
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open anymore. No one's seen so-and-so go in and out
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for a couple of weeks. And maybe that's weird. Maybe
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it's not. But people are noticing. And then suddenly attacks
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start happening. Bodies are found, partially devoured. And occasionally city
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guards say, we don't go to that area town at night.
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And eventually you start introducing this escalating threat that starts happening.
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And then suddenly... it's raccoon city and resident evil two,
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the city has fallen. Zombies are everywhere. And maybe your
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characters wake up in a jail cell or maybe they've
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just come back from a mission and maybe they came
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through a portal or something where they don't know what's
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going on outside. Or maybe they've been asleep in their
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base of operations and they haven't went outside yet. And
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suddenly they start hearing the sound of, you know, a
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pitched fight coming from outside and the city's engulfed in
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flames and you don't know what's going on. Your first
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instinct is like dragons, orcs, goblins, kobolds, could be any
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number of creatures. But what if it's the own citizen
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returning against the city and the powers that be have decided, okay,
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this place is a quarantine zone and maybe they've got
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dragons circling the perimeter of of the town saying, if
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anything without a pulse starts coming towards the perimeter, burn it.
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Now you've got raccoon city.
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Yeah.
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That's definitely one way to do it. When you mentioned
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resident evil or like the, you know, magical umbrella court
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popped into my head. Um, But how I would run that,
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I would actually do that right from the beginning from
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essentially level one. So I would kind of recreate the
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beginning of Resident Evil where all of the PCs wake
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up in the mansion or the fantasy equivalent of the mansion.
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Or setting equivalent of the mansion, rather. In a different room.
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As level one. Or maybe... I don't like.
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Starting level one.
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Yeah, the level three probably... Honestly, level three, if I
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wanted to be nice to the players, level one, if
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I wanted to actually make it scary. Because... Yeah, then
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you can go through that whole... Okay, so they're now
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investigating the mansion. It's spooky and scary. And then all
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of a sudden, they run across a couple of D
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& D zombies.
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Yeah.
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Which are easy enough to take out. And as they
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meet up and start getting deeper and deeper, you start
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modifying them. And maybe now they're Romero zombies, where... the
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only way to kill them is to destroy the head.
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And then, you know, essentially as they go deeper, you
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start ramping up the, the difficulty and, you know, maybe
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each time they get a level down, that's when you
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set your milestone advancement.
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Yeah. Cause like there was one thing I found on
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like the D and D home brew, or I found it,
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there was like a website I found, I think it
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was called like the DM's binder or GM's binder or
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something like that. And they introduced variant zombies that were
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very much in line with what was that game Damien
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where it was like four players left for dead or something.
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Yeah.
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So they introduced variant zombies, like the bloater, which is
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like a big fat guy like me, except when they explode,
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they're like corrosive acid or there's zombies that are stupid
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fast and or there's ones that have, like, the wits are, like,
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hyper-alert and can alert other zombies and stuff like that.
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And then there was, like, another thing you could do
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as well. You can introduce the idea of the zombie infection.
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This has actually come through in a couple of my games.
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There's a zombie type. I think it's called Spawn of
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Chris or something. And you basically, every time you're attacked...
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you get infected with these worms. And it's like, it's
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a really low DC. It's like a DC 12 con check.
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So most players should pass it. Paladins don't have to
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worry about it because they can just burn the infection
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through their like kind of lay on hands. But sometimes
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you're not fortunate enough to make those saves. And you
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as the DM can introduce the idea that's been in
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every zombie movie. Well, what happens when you're infected? and
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time is starting to run out. And that can really
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create a horror-like scenario where your character's living on borrowed time.
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So do you A, go find a paladin or a
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cleric or someone who can heal you? Or do you
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wait the clock out and accept inevitability? Or do you
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choose to go out Rambo style and go down swinging?
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So many different possibilities here.
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See, how I would do that, and I'm a little
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bit more of a jerk when it comes to things
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like this, is I wouldn't aim to infect one of
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the PCs. I would give the party a hireling or other,
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you know, hanger-on that they like, and I would set
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up the relationship with them. And then I would have
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it set up so that that character got infected. And
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maybe they don't tell anybody because they don't want to
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worry the rest of the group. Because they already feel
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like they're a burden. And then all of a sudden,
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this NPC that your party has formed this relationship, this
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bond with, over the course of a couple of in-game
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months of playing time, starts turning into a zombie.
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Yeah, tons of great ideas. And we're going to come
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back with more of those great ideas later. You are
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listening to 93.3. This is CFRU, Guelph and Campus Community Radio,
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also rebroadcasting proudly on ThisWeekInGeek.net. I'm Mike, that's Damian, and
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we'll be back right after this. Hello, CFRU listeners. We
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are the hosts of Tales from the Bridge podcast. My
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name is Tristan.
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I'm Sam.
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I'm Marty.
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And I'm Kevin.
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You can check out our show, Tales from the Bridge,
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every Thursday morning on CFRU at 9 a.m. We interview
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science fiction creators, including authors, directors of movies.
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If you want to check out some of our back episodes,
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check out our website, talesfromthebridge.com.
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So join us, talesfromthebridge.com, or on CFRU Thursday mornings at
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9 a.m. And let's make our way over to the bridge.
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Welcome back to The Spellbook right here on 93.3 CFRU
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Guelph Community Radio as we are talking about horror games
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and different ways and things that you can do to
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run your horror games for your table. Now, we've been
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talking about zombies a little bit, and one of the
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things that I kind of thought about while we were
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chatting about that was.
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If you wanted to do this for a campaign, but
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you didn't necessarily want to copy Resident Evil or something
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like that. Because there are a lot of people out
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there who don't really want to copy something that's already
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been done because, you know, they're... there's a good chance
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that one of your players is going to be like, oh, hey,
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wait a second. I see what's going on here.
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I know what this is. Yeah.
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Just like I kind of did with your campaign. Like,
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wait a second here. I know this. One way that
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if I wanted to make zombies and like a zombie
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infection a big part of a campaign that I was running,
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the big bad... would be a Dracolich. Okay. This Dracolich
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is the source of this zombie infection, this zombie plague.
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Maybe they've, you know, recruited, they've either recruited or they're
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somehow in league with, you know, a cabal of necromancers
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who are, or, you know, other ne'er-do-wells who are kidnapping
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people And this dracolich somehow is infecting these people. Now,
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maybe it doesn't kill them right away. But through this,
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this dracolich is somehow gaining power. Maybe it's helping to
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fuel their phylactery somehow. So that, like, if they die,
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they can come back faster. Because that's one of the
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limitations of being a lich is, you know, it takes
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a little bit of time to get.
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Your body back together. Yeah, exactly.
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So, like, what if, you know, and, like, obviously you
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don't put this out to your players right ahead of time, obviously. But, like,
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you know, behind the scenes, this Dracolich is slowly spreading
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this plague. And, you know, as the campaign goes along,
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you then have to deal with this Dracolich, which, you know,
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maybe it was a gold dragon when it was alive
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and it was forcibly turned into a Dracolich. So that's
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something else that you kind of have to grapple with.
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And you can even put with that, like once, especially
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once you decide what sort of dragon it is, especially
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if it's a metallic dragon or other good line dragon,
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you can then, you know, throw in pieces of lore
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into your world and be like, Oh, Hey, yeah, this dragon, uh,
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I'm going to use a dragon from Skyrim. This dragon Parthenax,
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you know, was the greatest hero in this area. And they've,
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they've been missing for, yeah, they've been missing for, for
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a very long time. And you're, you're sent to look for,
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you know, what happens, you know, your, your mid-level party.
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And maybe that's where the, the big reveal happens is.
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And the fact that you could like use this infection,
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you can use these infected. people as like living biological weapons,
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like maybe the undead curse or whatever it may be
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in your game. Does it manifest for three to six months?
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I mean, if you really want to make it twisted,
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maybe it starts, maybe the infection doesn't take hold. until
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the first time they're intimate with someone. So it's not
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quite like an STD or something like that, but maybe
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there's something.
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It is 100% what it is.
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Well, there is a movie like that. I think it
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was like a David Cronenberg movie called The Brood or
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The Spot. I can't remember what it is, but I
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like that idea that like it's dormant until you make
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a connection. And maybe that's the whole Dracolich's thing. Like
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I can't stand love, closeness, and tenderness anymore. I'm going
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to tear it apart. I want you to be forced
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to destroy what you love. And what better way to
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do that than to have the person who loves you
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the most come to rip your face off and you
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can't reason with them. And that's bloody awesome. That's some
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great compelling story right then and there. To move things
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with a different possibility, look at some of the major
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horror movie villains that have existed before. all throughout cinema.
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Obviously there's the big ones like you're werewolf, you're Dracula's,
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you're Frankenstein's. Now, as David alluded to, uh, earlier in
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this conversation in our game, they're fighting a fairy version
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of Freddy Krueger. I'm using a dream demon quote unquote,
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but I'm wrapping it up through the narrative that I
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kind of took inspiration and this'll cat some flack for sure.
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from the new nightmare on elm street remake that happened
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back in 2010 with jackie earl haley and it was
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the question was freddie innocent or not and that's always
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been hinted through the freddie lore that he was some
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sort of a killer of children but it was like
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someone signed the warrant in the wrong place and he
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was torched at in his boiler room but in the
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remake it's like Well, we don't know if he was
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doing it or not. And it's kind of hinted throughout
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the movie. He was probably something a lot worse than
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a child killer.
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And yeah, he was a bad man.
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Yeah. Yeah. He was a bad dude, but then it's revealed, Hey,
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this goes a lot worse. So in our game, it's
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revealed that this girl was rebuked and she decided she
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didn't want to be seen as weak. And she wasn't
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going to be, ain't no man going to do this
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to me. And now she set out to prove herself,
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but the cost of that was incredibly high. And now
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she's trapped in her own domain of dread, but she's
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a tragic figure. So you can play upon that. Like
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not all your villains have to be bad. I mean,
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like for example, Jason Voorhees, for example, is a character
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I love to borrow and put into D & D.
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But Jason's backstory outside of the Crystal Lake TV series,
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which if you haven't watched it, Well, it's certainly a twist.
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But Jason was a kid who died through no fault
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of his own. And his mom, Pamela, decided, hmm, you
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decided it was a better idea to go off making
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love than looking after my son. Now you're going to pay.
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So you can use tragedy because when you look at
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the concept of what Jason Voorhees is, he's a revenant.
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He's powered by revenge. Now, yes, if you have sex
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or do drugs or whatever, are generally a bad person,
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he's going to find you. It's not to say innocent
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people get away scot-free either, because they surely as hell don't.
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No, they don't.
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Like, Banana Girl I can think of, and other people,
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though I think that was Roy who killed her in
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Part 5. Anyway, I'm getting into the weeds here. But
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that's a great idea. Like, maybe the person who's controlling
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the monster, that's the real bad guy. So you can
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introduce your own version of Pam Lavorhees. Or another thing,
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D & D is baked into the idea of warlocks. Like, hell,
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one of the great pacts you can make is with
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the Pact of the Fiend. That's basically dealing with devilish forces,
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not quite demons, because that's different in D & D,
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and that's a discussion for a different day. But if
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you want to bring in a horror movie villain like that,
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I've done this in a previous game where a guy
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wanted to become a warlock but he was contacting something else.
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And one of them, and if you really want to
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find out what I'm talking about, there's a great new
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video game out, but oh my God, don't play this
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in front of anybody. You might be afraid to have
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them look at you funny. Hellraiser revival. What is Hellraiser?
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If not the exploration, not just the BDSM and hey,
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00:24:46.579 --> 00:24:51.079
if that's your bag party on, but the concept of
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explorers of sensation. And when you think about that, what
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00:24:56.730 --> 00:25:02.289
does Pinhead and the Cenobites offer? They offer you a
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chance to explore beyond the flesh. They offer you a
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chance to know what is in the labyrinth. What is Leviathan?
404
00:25:11.839 --> 00:25:14.900
What is the Reveler? And you can even introduce your
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own version of the lament configuration in your games. I've
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done that before and people didn't realize I was running
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Hellraiser until I had a Cino bite come out and
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I described that they made an Arcana check. I'm like,
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00:25:30.690 --> 00:25:33.990
it's not something you recognize, but judging by how it's dressed,
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cause I use like this, the Cino bite dressed in,
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00:25:37.109 --> 00:25:41.069
you know, the sex club leather, but I described it
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as a pain elemental. And the person I was hanging,
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I was playing this game with like, Hey, wait a second.
414
00:25:48.670 --> 00:25:51.599
Is that a Cino bites? And their eyes just lit
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up like, Oh my God, we're fighting pinhead. Now, it
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00:25:54.369 --> 00:25:57.130
didn't go too well for them, but they were able
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00:25:57.170 --> 00:26:00.670
to banish the box back to the labyrinth and they
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were able to thwart this warlock's plan. So that's one
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way to introduce major IP characters or concepts into your game.
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00:26:10.680 --> 00:26:13.579
Another way that I like that D & D has
421
00:26:13.740 --> 00:26:18.130
it kind of baked in, at least Great Old One
422
00:26:18.190 --> 00:26:20.329
is still a pact you can take in 5.5, yeah?
423
00:26:24.390 --> 00:26:26.839
Yep, it most certainly is.
424
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I heard that they made some changes to the packs
425
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and stuff like that, and I wasn't sure if they'd
426
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taken that one out. But Eldritch Horror, Cthulhu is canonically
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in the Forgotten Realms if you're running in that setting,
428
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and can be in any realm that you want, really,
429
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depending on what your setting is. That is a really,
430
00:26:51.930 --> 00:27:00.609
really great way to add in a horror element that,
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00:27:00.829 --> 00:27:04.029
as I said earlier in the show, isn't going to
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necessarily go after the PCs where they're strongest. It's going
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to go more after the problem-solving abilities of the players.
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Especially if you're playing in something like D & D
435
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or Pathfinder where you're Your characters are going to be powerful. It's,
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00:27:25.690 --> 00:27:28.740
you know, it's part and parcel with the system. It's
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part of what makes it kind of fun. No knock
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against it, but it does add a level of challenge
439
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when it comes to running horror. So you then have
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to put choices in front of the players. As we've
441
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mentioned just in the show as well, like, you know,
442
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tragic backstories, moral quandaries. You know, your party has to
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00:27:59.880 --> 00:28:05.359
defeat this, you know, otherworldly menace that is, you know,
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threatening Waterdeep, let's say. But you come to find out
445
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that what you have to do to deal with this
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threat maybe you have to convince a budding warlock or,
447
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you know, some researcher to destroy, you know, your, your
448
00:28:34.839 --> 00:28:36.579
settings version of the Necronomicon.
449
00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:39.980
Yeah. Because like you think about, especially in D and D,
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especially in, in, in the forgotten realm setting, there is
451
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a place, the great library of candle keep. And Candlekeep
452
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is a great repository of magic. Some known, unknown, more
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often than not forgotten. And in the setting, there are
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gods that are dead. There are gods that have been
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long forgotten to time itself. So what if one of
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00:29:07.920 --> 00:29:09.920
these withers? You don't have to tie it to like
457
00:29:10.720 --> 00:29:12.819
the Netherese or whatever. Yeah, if you want to tie
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00:29:12.839 --> 00:29:15.000
it to like the great old one for knowledge, which
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00:29:15.079 --> 00:29:18.420
is utterly forbidden. How do you expand upon that? And
460
00:29:18.480 --> 00:29:23.119
maybe breaking in the candle keep to destroy this book
461
00:29:23.900 --> 00:29:26.740
might be the only way to keep not just the
462
00:29:26.789 --> 00:29:31.890
world safe, but your friends safe. But speaking of safe,
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we're going to keep you safe because it's time for
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a break. So we're going to take a break as
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we continue spooky and scary content. conversations here as we
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00:29:41.269 --> 00:29:46.210
continue Halloween month here on The Spellbook. So for The Spellbook,
467
00:29:46.259 --> 00:29:49.559
I've been one of your undead cohorts for the evening.
468
00:29:49.720 --> 00:29:53.140
I've been Mike the Birdman. That is Damien Magical Hack.
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00:29:53.180 --> 00:29:56.640
And when we come back, more scary right here on 93.3 CFRU.
470
00:30:02.319 --> 00:30:07.539
Hi, this is Joel Gibb from the Hidden Cameras, and
471
00:30:07.559 --> 00:30:08.319
you're listening to.
472
00:30:08.339 --> 00:30:09.259
CFRU 93.3 FM.
473
00:30:09.279 --> 00:30:18.529
We are talking spooky stories. Before we went, like, in
474
00:30:18.569 --> 00:30:20.509
that last little section there, we were kind of talking
475
00:30:20.529 --> 00:30:28.130
about ghosts and, you know, other non-corporeal critters that you
476
00:30:28.150 --> 00:30:31.710
can use in your games. One of the things that
477
00:30:31.759 --> 00:30:36.799
I really like about ghosts and those sort of ghosts
478
00:30:36.859 --> 00:30:41.119
and spirits and unbodied enemies is.
479
00:30:43.470 --> 00:30:46.890
And like you'd mentioned it before is they're a threat,
480
00:30:47.730 --> 00:30:53.539
like especially to lower parties or any party in a
481
00:30:53.700 --> 00:30:58.619
low magic setting. Um, because like mechanically, one of the
482
00:30:58.700 --> 00:31:01.460
biggest thing, one of the biggest threats that they have
483
00:31:01.960 --> 00:31:06.460
is you can't hit them with non-magical weapons. Yep.
484
00:31:06.569 --> 00:31:09.509
In fact, one of the deadliest enemies, it's like a
485
00:31:09.650 --> 00:31:14.539
CR one creature. So it's not, it's nothing. It's a shadow.
486
00:31:15.200 --> 00:31:16.940
And you might be thinking, a shadow? What's the big
487
00:31:16.980 --> 00:31:23.200
friggin' deal about that? Well, the shadow is very hard
488
00:31:23.269 --> 00:31:26.369
to damage. It's easy to hit, but it's hard to damage.
489
00:31:27.529 --> 00:31:31.529
The thing is, though, if this thing hits you, it
490
00:31:31.589 --> 00:31:36.549
starts draining your strength. And if you reach zero strength,
491
00:31:37.470 --> 00:31:42.920
you're dead. Mm-hmm. And I love enemies that deal strength
492
00:31:43.079 --> 00:31:47.200
and ability damage. Mostly because, A, you never see it.
493
00:31:48.089 --> 00:31:53.730
People expect petrification, maybe an instant death effect. It happens.
494
00:31:54.529 --> 00:31:57.250
But when I start saying, oh, you lose one to
495
00:31:57.410 --> 00:32:02.059
four points of charisma and you're a barbarian, suddenly two
496
00:32:02.119 --> 00:32:03.839
hits is starting to look like you're going to have
497
00:32:03.900 --> 00:32:07.140
problems or the wizard gets hit and they may have
498
00:32:07.220 --> 00:32:12.460
an eight strength and suddenly... they're not so encouraged to
499
00:32:12.480 --> 00:32:15.279
go fight Casper anymore. You know what I mean?
500
00:32:16.880 --> 00:32:20.160
Well, yeah, but I mean, like the wizard is better
501
00:32:20.220 --> 00:32:22.279
equipped to deal with Casper than the fighter is.
502
00:32:22.299 --> 00:32:25.980
True. And it's one of those things where, again, depending
503
00:32:26.019 --> 00:32:31.000
on how you set tone and setting, I love putting
504
00:32:31.079 --> 00:32:35.400
these creatures into places where martial characters think they're going
505
00:32:35.420 --> 00:32:38.890
to be Billy Badass. and they don't always have that
506
00:32:39.089 --> 00:32:42.099
option because again, low level parties may not necessarily have
507
00:32:42.180 --> 00:32:45.880
magical weapons or silvered weapons or anything that can damage
508
00:32:45.920 --> 00:32:51.160
these things, or maybe, you know, they don't have anything
509
00:32:51.200 --> 00:32:54.500
just equipped to deal with it. And even to move
510
00:32:54.539 --> 00:32:57.980
this out of fantasy for just a moment, speaking about
511
00:32:58.099 --> 00:33:02.509
non-corporeal things, um, if you've played, um, cyberpunk 2077, um,
512
00:33:05.019 --> 00:33:07.799
you know, spoilers for a game that came out in 2020,
513
00:33:07.799 --> 00:33:11.329
I guess. Um, one of the central themes of that
514
00:33:11.390 --> 00:33:15.230
game is what if your soul or representation of you
515
00:33:15.930 --> 00:33:20.089
got trapped inside a computer and you couldn't leave now?
516
00:33:20.109 --> 00:33:22.069
I don't think that's necessarily a spoiler.
517
00:33:22.750 --> 00:33:28.279
Yeah, but it's like digital death or digital entrapment is
518
00:33:28.759 --> 00:33:30.799
kind of scary when you think about it. Cause like,
519
00:33:31.039 --> 00:33:34.160
what would you do if you couldn't die? Um, And
520
00:33:34.180 --> 00:33:35.880
people think, oh man, I'm going to live forever. I'm
521
00:33:35.900 --> 00:33:38.089
going to live inside the matrix. Okay. That's awesome. But
522
00:33:39.269 --> 00:33:44.470
eventually you're going to get tired and eventually the fun and,
523
00:33:44.769 --> 00:33:48.509
you know, illusion of I can do whatever I want
524
00:33:49.390 --> 00:33:54.339
is going to wear thin. So what if that person
525
00:33:55.380 --> 00:34:00.609
in the machine decided I want out? And what if
526
00:34:00.619 --> 00:34:05.430
when you jack into a computer, suddenly your way in
527
00:34:05.789 --> 00:34:10.400
is their way out. And they possess you or overwrite
528
00:34:10.440 --> 00:34:11.079
you or something.
529
00:34:11.579 --> 00:34:16.639
Yeah, that's definitely a thing. To kind of expand on
530
00:34:16.679 --> 00:34:18.619
that a little bit, and now this is something that
531
00:34:18.719 --> 00:34:22.139
I know in our previous conversations I've brought up before,
532
00:34:24.340 --> 00:34:26.760
and I think I brought it up during the Call
533
00:34:26.780 --> 00:34:32.750
of Cthulhu episode. What if... Instead of it being a
534
00:34:32.829 --> 00:34:37.579
person trapped in the machine, it's, you know.
535
00:34:37.599 --> 00:34:38.599
Something else?
536
00:34:38.679 --> 00:34:42.440
An actual virus, like a computer virus that has somehow
537
00:34:42.500 --> 00:34:48.269
gained sentience. An AI who is looking for a physical body,
538
00:34:48.630 --> 00:34:54.610
or going back to the Eldritch Horror, an Eldritch being
539
00:34:55.329 --> 00:34:57.860
that has somehow found a way to.
540
00:34:59.480 --> 00:35:03.559
Inject a portion of their consciousness into the net.
541
00:35:04.219 --> 00:35:06.829
Yeah. And I can actually think of two examples of
542
00:35:06.869 --> 00:35:10.949
this in popular media. When you look at, um, the
543
00:35:10.949 --> 00:35:14.630
1995 movie for ghost in the shell, for example, the
544
00:35:15.050 --> 00:35:19.719
puppet master, they were an AI and it's like, did
545
00:35:19.780 --> 00:35:23.940
I always exist? Have I always existed? I know I'm
546
00:35:23.980 --> 00:35:26.780
not alive, but I don't want to die. And I
547
00:35:26.860 --> 00:35:30.809
love the idea of it being like, consciousness that has
548
00:35:30.849 --> 00:35:34.489
decided I want asylum. So if you took that, then
549
00:35:34.530 --> 00:35:37.809
a more dark and twisted route, that's always a possibility.
550
00:35:37.869 --> 00:35:41.050
Cause I think it's in cyber. I think it's in
551
00:35:41.130 --> 00:35:46.469
the Cthulhu punk book for, um, GURPS. There's an entity
552
00:35:46.550 --> 00:35:50.250
like a great old one. They find on the internet,
553
00:35:50.269 --> 00:35:54.329
they find in some deep cyberspace research thing. And it's
554
00:35:54.409 --> 00:35:58.170
literally an entity of the outer gods that began as
555
00:35:58.210 --> 00:36:04.050
a geometric, uh, And it's something that is literally, it's
556
00:36:04.130 --> 00:36:08.639
grown beyond binary. It has grown beyond the confines of
557
00:36:08.719 --> 00:36:14.719
what humans are. And now it wants out and you
558
00:36:14.739 --> 00:36:19.530
can introduce technological threats. Like for example, as you mentioned,
559
00:36:19.840 --> 00:36:24.829
something wants a body. Frankenstein is classic body whore. What
560
00:36:25.369 --> 00:36:29.210
there's so, I think there's a John Carpenter's body bags
561
00:36:29.230 --> 00:36:32.829
that explores this idea where someone gets a piece of
562
00:36:32.929 --> 00:36:36.070
another person who's died, like their eyes or something. And
563
00:36:36.130 --> 00:36:40.050
suddenly they're seeing people who've been murdered or there's like,
564
00:36:40.070 --> 00:36:43.610
I think there's an episode of masters of horror where
565
00:36:43.769 --> 00:36:47.760
they talk about this. I know there's one of the VHS, uh,
566
00:36:47.940 --> 00:36:51.559
shorts in that series of movies where someone has their
567
00:36:51.719 --> 00:36:55.800
eyes replaced by video cameras. And suddenly they're not just
568
00:36:55.940 --> 00:36:59.900
seeing the world in 4k, uh, They start to see
569
00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:02.599
people that have passed. They start to see ghosts that
570
00:37:02.639 --> 00:37:07.570
exist in this potential murder house. And when the ghosts realize, hey,
571
00:37:07.610 --> 00:37:11.889
you can see me. Maybe you can help me. Or
572
00:37:11.969 --> 00:37:15.130
maybe you're now, you're my new victim. And to even
573
00:37:15.170 --> 00:37:17.949
expand upon that a little bit further, think about the
574
00:37:17.989 --> 00:37:23.079
Michael J. Fox movie, The Frighteners. When he realized he
575
00:37:23.099 --> 00:37:25.900
was a medium and could see ghosts. Yeah, he tried
576
00:37:25.980 --> 00:37:30.929
to monetize that. But it drove him insane because now
577
00:37:30.969 --> 00:37:34.010
he constantly has all these ghosts coming to him for help.
578
00:37:34.849 --> 00:37:38.329
And there are subclasses in D & D where you
579
00:37:38.369 --> 00:37:42.789
can see the dead. And that's an adventure hook right there.
580
00:37:43.449 --> 00:37:47.070
Yep. One of the things... I'm actually kind of glad
581
00:37:47.110 --> 00:37:48.710
that you brought it back around to D & D
582
00:37:48.730 --> 00:37:51.699
because one of the concepts that I was kind of
583
00:37:51.739 --> 00:37:54.019
thinking about earlier and I've been mulling it around in
584
00:37:54.059 --> 00:37:55.300
the back of my head....
585
00:37:56.440 --> 00:37:57.010
What if.
586
00:37:58.000 --> 00:38:02.900
Okay, so, like, now, in Mike's game, there's certain spells
587
00:38:03.000 --> 00:38:05.980
that we can't take or they're harder because, you know,
588
00:38:06.019 --> 00:38:09.510
they can break the game or something. One of them
589
00:38:09.570 --> 00:38:14.929
is clone. Now, what if, you know, you find a
590
00:38:14.969 --> 00:38:18.110
wizard who can make a clone of you in case
591
00:38:18.130 --> 00:38:26.179
you die? The price is reasonable, you know. But what if...
592
00:38:26.980 --> 00:38:35.809
when you come back and you inhabit that clone, something's changed. Or,
593
00:38:36.050 --> 00:38:38.289
you know, and this would be something that you would
594
00:38:38.389 --> 00:38:41.369
want to have one of the PCs, like, you would
595
00:38:41.409 --> 00:38:43.710
want to work with one of the PCs or, like,
596
00:38:44.280 --> 00:38:48.820
the PC who got the clone made for them. And, like,
597
00:38:48.840 --> 00:38:51.280
they would need to be willing to eventually have their
598
00:38:51.340 --> 00:38:55.599
PC become, you know, the big bad or whatever, potentially. But, like...
599
00:38:56.639 --> 00:39:02.340
What if, you know, this wizard who is offering this
600
00:39:02.420 --> 00:39:07.989
service to make clones of adventurers, they may have some
601
00:39:08.030 --> 00:39:09.489
sort of nefarious scheme.
602
00:39:11.989 --> 00:39:14.789
Like maybe you're not the only person they're cloning sort
603
00:39:14.829 --> 00:39:15.090
of thing?
604
00:39:15.650 --> 00:39:19.880
Well, you're not the only person they're cloning. Maybe part
605
00:39:19.920 --> 00:39:27.199
of the process that they're using involves replacing... Bits of
606
00:39:27.280 --> 00:39:27.619
you with.
607
00:39:30.619 --> 00:39:36.139
You know, a devil, a demon, some sort of eldritch being.
608
00:39:36.780 --> 00:39:45.119
And as, you know, it may not be apparent at first,
609
00:39:45.260 --> 00:39:52.510
but as people jump into these clones, maybe after the
610
00:39:52.550 --> 00:39:57.909
second time that you die, the changes start becoming apparent
611
00:39:58.389 --> 00:40:04.139
and people's personalities start changing. Heroes of the kingdom that,
612
00:40:04.219 --> 00:40:14.059
you know, once were upstanding individuals are now depraved. They're,
613
00:40:14.400 --> 00:40:19.860
you know, turning into, you know, the Therunian version of
614
00:40:20.079 --> 00:40:25.579
Jack the Ripper. And your party has to figure out
615
00:40:25.659 --> 00:40:28.159
what's going on and why this is happening.
616
00:40:28.860 --> 00:40:33.420
Yeah. Cause like this wizard creating all these clone bodies. Well,
617
00:40:33.480 --> 00:40:36.760
maybe during the process, they maybe take a kidney and
618
00:40:36.889 --> 00:40:40.269
suddenly they have blackmail material on you. Cause now they
619
00:40:40.309 --> 00:40:42.590
can find you anywhere on this plane of existence. Cause
620
00:40:42.630 --> 00:40:49.860
they literally have your blood. They know who and what
621
00:40:50.389 --> 00:40:55.670
you are. Like in Shadowrun, for example, having a biological
622
00:40:55.750 --> 00:41:00.190
sample of someone is incredibly powerful because now you can
623
00:41:00.269 --> 00:41:02.860
ritual cast, you can find them wherever they are. Yeah,
624
00:41:02.909 --> 00:41:05.619
my God, I'm going to figure a way to steal
625
00:41:05.679 --> 00:41:07.800
this for something because this is a really neat idea
626
00:41:07.820 --> 00:41:10.039
and I'm kind of turning ideas over in my head
627
00:41:10.239 --> 00:41:13.599
right now. But yeah, horror games can be so much
628
00:41:13.639 --> 00:41:17.619
fun to run, especially if you're willing to take an idea...
629
00:41:17.869 --> 00:41:20.909
from an existing IP or maybe take a famous book
630
00:41:20.969 --> 00:41:22.670
or something, just add your own twist to it and
631
00:41:22.690 --> 00:41:27.730
just be willing to go further, dive into the lore
632
00:41:27.769 --> 00:41:30.190
if you want, or go completely off script. Like I said,
633
00:41:30.289 --> 00:41:33.760
I've introduced the Cenobites into D & D and it's
634
00:41:33.800 --> 00:41:36.699
worked tremendously well. I've also introduced Freddy Krueger and I
635
00:41:36.739 --> 00:41:39.780
think so well, so far it's worked pretty good. Most
636
00:41:39.820 --> 00:41:42.739
people kind of dig it. So tell us your horror
637
00:41:42.800 --> 00:41:44.699
stories that you got. Like I said, you can run
638
00:41:44.739 --> 00:41:47.820
into me and Damien this weekend. in Peter Clark Hall
639
00:41:47.940 --> 00:41:51.389
on Saturday from 11 a.m. till 10 p.m. Come on
640
00:41:51.429 --> 00:41:53.050
out and play some games with us. We'd love to
641
00:41:53.070 --> 00:41:55.329
chat with you. Maybe we'll have lunch together over at
642
00:41:55.710 --> 00:41:58.269
Creelman Hall. It'd just be wonderful just to see people.
643
00:41:58.309 --> 00:42:00.070
So come on out and see us. So, Damian, what
644
00:42:00.090 --> 00:42:01.789
are we going to be talking about next week here
645
00:42:01.949 --> 00:42:02.369
on the show?
646
00:42:03.210 --> 00:42:06.570
Next week, we are actually going to be talking about
647
00:42:06.630 --> 00:42:12.949
Monster of the Week. And, yeah, so if you have
648
00:42:13.130 --> 00:42:18.860
ever wanted to... you know, be a monster hunter. This
649
00:42:20.380 --> 00:42:21.840
is definitely the show that you're going to want to
650
00:42:21.860 --> 00:42:22.980
want or listen to rather.
651
00:42:24.099 --> 00:42:26.719
Fantastic. So we'll be talking about all things that go
652
00:42:26.860 --> 00:42:28.380
bump in the night. I know I'm going to be
653
00:42:28.440 --> 00:42:34.170
loading up with a silver buckshot and a sharpened table
654
00:42:34.230 --> 00:42:37.969
legs to kill vampires and going after werewolves. So we'll
655
00:42:37.989 --> 00:42:40.889
talk about all that and more next week. So for
656
00:42:40.909 --> 00:42:42.369
the spell book, we have been.
657
00:42:43.090 --> 00:42:45.489
I have been Magic Clack, also known as Damian Morfitt.
658
00:42:46.050 --> 00:42:49.150
My name has been Mike the Birdman. So, guys, thank
659
00:42:49.170 --> 00:42:51.570
you for listening to The Spellbook. And once again, you've
660
00:42:51.590 --> 00:42:55.590
been listening to 93.3. This is CFRU, Guelph and Campus
661
00:42:55.639 --> 00:43:01.019
Community Radio, and rebroadcasting proudly on ThisWeekInGeek.net.
662
00:43:06.820 --> 00:43:10.579
Hi, I'm Blenders Bublik, and I listen to CFRU, to
663
00:43:10.599 --> 00:43:12.900
hear a mix of local content that I'm not going
664
00:43:12.920 --> 00:43:15.940
to hear anywhere else. I'm CFRU.
665
00:43:16.380 --> 00:43:16.679
Are you?
666
00:43:26.409 --> 00:43:30.489
Welcome back to The Spellbook right here on 93.3 CFRU
667
00:43:30.570 --> 00:43:35.570
Guelph Community Radio as we are talking about running horror
668
00:43:35.630 --> 00:43:41.440
games for your group. Now, we've We've talked a little
669
00:43:41.460 --> 00:43:47.280
bit about some specifics of like, you know, running Eldritch Horror,
670
00:43:47.340 --> 00:43:50.949
running zombies and things like that. I would actually kind
671
00:43:50.969 --> 00:43:54.650
of like to take a step back from the specifics
672
00:43:54.710 --> 00:43:59.539
for a minute. Okay. Because... In our conversations previously, both
673
00:43:59.719 --> 00:44:01.570
on this show and the one that was on my
674
00:44:01.590 --> 00:44:05.429
YouTube channel, you've mentioned before that you're not a huge
675
00:44:05.550 --> 00:44:10.409
fan of running horror. It doesn't necessarily land as well.
676
00:44:10.869 --> 00:44:13.389
Yeah, because one of the big things with horror games,
677
00:44:14.190 --> 00:44:17.210
it's buy-in, but it's also atmosphere. As much as I
678
00:44:17.289 --> 00:44:25.349
love to run Ravenloft or Ravenloft-adjacent stuff, it's hard because... I,
679
00:44:25.789 --> 00:44:28.250
everybody comes to the game wanting to have a good
680
00:44:28.289 --> 00:44:31.809
time and everyone's going to make your Monty Python quote.
681
00:44:31.869 --> 00:44:34.449
They're going to make fun of your big, stupid monster.
682
00:44:35.230 --> 00:44:38.820
They're going to find a way to take the piss
683
00:44:38.909 --> 00:44:41.539
out of you, so to speak. And running whore can
684
00:44:41.579 --> 00:44:45.699
be remarkably difficult when it's done. I'm not going to
685
00:44:45.780 --> 00:44:48.619
say right, because that's implies there's a way to do
686
00:44:48.639 --> 00:44:50.780
it wrong, which there is, but that's not what I mean.
687
00:44:51.559 --> 00:44:55.440
What I mean by that is. if you don't have
688
00:44:56.039 --> 00:44:59.789
them not necessarily eating out of your hand, but if
689
00:44:59.829 --> 00:45:03.809
they're not hanging on your descriptions, if you're not setting
690
00:45:03.889 --> 00:45:08.269
the tone, it doesn't land as effectively as you would want.
691
00:45:08.309 --> 00:45:11.650
For example, we have friends in our group where whore
692
00:45:11.690 --> 00:45:15.239
can land remarkably. Well, let's, we have a person in
693
00:45:15.280 --> 00:45:19.840
our group. Let's call them Jamie, Jamie, when they play.
694
00:45:20.219 --> 00:45:25.519
And I describe a monster's, intentions towards you and you
695
00:45:25.559 --> 00:45:32.320
can feel the icy grip of their corruption tingling every
696
00:45:32.420 --> 00:45:37.340
individual vertebrae on your spine or having them tug upon
697
00:45:37.380 --> 00:45:41.889
a primal nightmare so much so you unconsciously break out
698
00:45:41.929 --> 00:45:48.449
in a cold sweat. That is atmosphere. Alternatively, let's call
699
00:45:48.550 --> 00:45:53.659
our friend, let's call him Sam. Sam. When Sam decides
700
00:45:53.719 --> 00:46:00.579
to crack a joke, suddenly the fingers on your spine said, ooh,
701
00:46:01.480 --> 00:46:04.659
I think my cat just broke something. Awesome. Thanks, Bishop.
702
00:46:05.079 --> 00:46:08.730
That's what happens when the atmosphere gets broken by something
703
00:46:08.809 --> 00:46:13.050
you can't control. Yeah. That kills the experience. And it's
704
00:46:13.090 --> 00:46:17.170
not because that person, Sam, for example, wants to ruin
705
00:46:17.210 --> 00:46:20.219
the game. No, no, no. Maybe that's how they break tension.
706
00:46:21.199 --> 00:46:24.800
but you can't be so dripping in atmosphere where it's
707
00:46:24.880 --> 00:46:29.340
nothing but the Eldritch whore from beyond the stars lurks
708
00:46:29.440 --> 00:46:32.840
behind your very mind's eye. You can drag that out
709
00:46:32.900 --> 00:46:37.179
for a while, but eventually the clown has to fart.
710
00:46:37.780 --> 00:46:39.679
And what I mean by that is you have to
711
00:46:39.719 --> 00:46:42.940
have that moment of tension because when you ratchet that
712
00:46:43.059 --> 00:46:47.170
scary back up, it means something. But if you're constantly
713
00:46:47.269 --> 00:46:51.280
pushing the car into the red... eventually you're just saying like, look,
714
00:46:51.320 --> 00:46:52.460
can we crash already?
715
00:46:53.400 --> 00:46:57.739
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And like, that's one of the things
716
00:46:57.820 --> 00:47:03.860
that I've noticed that a lot of GMs don't have
717
00:47:04.199 --> 00:47:10.119
the most effective grasp on is when to release that
718
00:47:10.260 --> 00:47:16.530
gas pedal and give your PCs safety.
719
00:47:16.789 --> 00:47:17.050
Yeah.
720
00:47:17.070 --> 00:47:19.780
Yeah. And it's not even necessarily a moment of levity.
721
00:47:20.300 --> 00:47:29.110
It's that complete release and stop of that tension. So what,
722
00:47:29.670 --> 00:47:36.250
like how I would approach this as a GM is,
723
00:47:37.329 --> 00:47:40.030
you know, especially if you're going like, you know, multiple
724
00:47:40.210 --> 00:47:44.679
acts and whatnot, act one, you ramp up the tensions.
725
00:47:46.750 --> 00:47:50.719
You make things spoopy. You have your house filled with mimics.
726
00:47:51.639 --> 00:48:00.440
Or your alien creature stalking from the shadows. And then
727
00:48:00.739 --> 00:48:06.239
you hit the climax. And then you let your PCs
728
00:48:07.239 --> 00:48:13.559
get back to basically their safe life for a while. Because...
729
00:48:14.699 --> 00:48:19.769
And even think of it like each act is its
730
00:48:19.949 --> 00:48:20.590
own movie.
731
00:48:21.190 --> 00:48:25.590
Yes, very good. For example, when you said that, I
732
00:48:25.650 --> 00:48:28.340
thought of Nightmare on Elm Street, which is kind of
733
00:48:28.380 --> 00:48:31.360
what we're playing out right now. When you look at
734
00:48:31.420 --> 00:48:36.679
how those movies are structured, when Nancy or Alice or
735
00:48:36.780 --> 00:48:41.429
Kristen defeats Freddy, there's a moment where things are okay. And,
736
00:48:42.010 --> 00:48:45.590
you know... just before the credits roll, for example, the
737
00:48:45.670 --> 00:48:50.010
end of Nightmare 3 where Kristen has defeated Freddy, Nancy
738
00:48:50.030 --> 00:48:53.440
has passed away, but she's at home and you see
739
00:48:53.460 --> 00:48:56.440
the model of 1428 Elm Street and you see the
740
00:48:56.500 --> 00:49:02.599
dream doll that was given to Kristen by Nancy or Dr. Gordon,
741
00:49:02.659 --> 00:49:05.559
I can't remember off the top of my head. And
742
00:49:05.599 --> 00:49:08.340
you hear the quiet music as the scene begins to
743
00:49:08.380 --> 00:49:11.320
go to credits. But then the light turns on in
744
00:49:11.360 --> 00:49:15.300
the model house and maybe Freddie's not gone. So it's
745
00:49:15.380 --> 00:49:18.070
wonderful little moments like that. Like you give enough tension
746
00:49:18.110 --> 00:49:20.840
to be let up off the gas. The, Things are safe.
747
00:49:21.260 --> 00:49:24.440
Things are back to status quo or even alternatively at
748
00:49:24.480 --> 00:49:27.840
the end of a nightmare on street four, when Alice
749
00:49:27.900 --> 00:49:33.079
defeats Freddie and she's outside with her new boyfriend, Dan,
750
00:49:34.039 --> 00:49:37.599
and she throws a coin into this, uh, fountain and,
751
00:49:38.179 --> 00:49:40.219
you see a reflection of Freddie in the water, but
752
00:49:40.260 --> 00:49:43.579
then the coin disturbs the water surface and suddenly he's gone.
753
00:49:44.199 --> 00:49:44.340
Yeah.
754
00:49:44.380 --> 00:49:47.949
But she's outside. It's a bright sunny day. And while
755
00:49:48.030 --> 00:49:50.710
most of her friends are gone, she has a life
756
00:49:50.750 --> 00:49:53.110
she can look forward to now. And that's the moment
757
00:49:53.150 --> 00:49:53.989
where things are broken.
758
00:49:54.409 --> 00:49:54.630
Yeah.
759
00:49:54.789 --> 00:50:00.070
And then in the next movie at the beginning of it, yes, there's,
760
00:50:00.570 --> 00:50:03.309
you know, reports of stuff that happened in the previous movies,
761
00:50:04.090 --> 00:50:06.550
but everything is normal.
762
00:50:07.070 --> 00:50:07.329
Yeah.
763
00:50:07.989 --> 00:50:10.889
Everything is back to the proper status quo. And then
764
00:50:10.929 --> 00:50:12.869
it ramps up from there again.
765
00:50:13.650 --> 00:50:18.449
Like one monster or one scenario, I think if you
766
00:50:18.530 --> 00:50:22.550
play it quite effectively, it can be so tragic, but
767
00:50:22.590 --> 00:50:25.949
it can be really good for building atmosphere. And it's
768
00:50:25.969 --> 00:50:30.730
a wonderful storytelling device. And these monsters can be surprisingly
769
00:50:30.849 --> 00:50:35.880
deadly if they encounter a low level party and people
770
00:50:35.920 --> 00:50:40.119
start to fail saving throws. I'm talking about ghosts. And
771
00:50:40.199 --> 00:50:42.380
ghosts are that thing, oh, big deal. I ain't afraid
772
00:50:42.440 --> 00:50:46.199
of no ghost. Cool, until you can suddenly die of
773
00:50:46.320 --> 00:50:50.849
fright or you suddenly age 1D 10 years or something
774
00:50:50.929 --> 00:50:56.090
happens to you. Like anything that's like an undead, like
775
00:50:56.170 --> 00:51:03.239
a ghost, a specter, a poltergeist, or a banshee, all
776
00:51:03.280 --> 00:51:08.230
of them have abilities that prey upon fear. And when
777
00:51:08.269 --> 00:51:11.070
you think about them as a storytelling device, I know
778
00:51:11.130 --> 00:51:14.630
I did this in a different game, but there was
779
00:51:14.889 --> 00:51:21.199
this lich who was traveling and gathering an army to
780
00:51:21.280 --> 00:51:23.460
build himself a new body. He was a very young
781
00:51:23.539 --> 00:51:27.960
lich and he was trying, he was convinced he was
782
00:51:28.079 --> 00:51:31.699
saving the world because like, look, my mortal body was
783
00:51:31.760 --> 00:51:33.539
only going to make it to a hundred. I had
784
00:51:33.619 --> 00:51:38.519
to do this. Something's coming. And I need time. If
785
00:51:38.579 --> 00:51:42.280
you leave me alone, I won't bother you. Let me
786
00:51:42.360 --> 00:51:46.739
gather my forces. I'm trying to help everybody. But when
787
00:51:46.780 --> 00:51:49.860
my players went to a crypt of someone that this
788
00:51:49.940 --> 00:51:53.480
Lich had slain, they got the other side of the story.
789
00:51:53.559 --> 00:51:56.780
So they ran into a ghost, but they had to
790
00:51:56.860 --> 00:51:59.420
play it in such a way where they had to
791
00:51:59.460 --> 00:52:01.840
get that ghost to talk. Because I don't know if
792
00:52:01.860 --> 00:52:04.719
anybody here on the show, you and I have both
793
00:52:04.780 --> 00:52:08.750
had supernatural experiences, and that's a story for a different podcast,
794
00:52:09.809 --> 00:52:15.730
but sometimes if you play it correctly, a ghost can
795
00:52:15.750 --> 00:52:20.539
be a wonderful way to give emotion to exposition. And
796
00:52:20.900 --> 00:52:26.219
maybe the ghost who's laying in the tomb of her
797
00:52:26.760 --> 00:52:29.920
or his dead lover, like maybe there's a husband who's
798
00:52:29.980 --> 00:52:33.139
mourning his wife who was a wonderful paladin and did
799
00:52:33.179 --> 00:52:36.789
all these wonderful things in the name of Lathander or Tyr.
800
00:52:37.420 --> 00:52:40.559
And his spirit can't rest. Maybe she hasn't gone on
801
00:52:40.599 --> 00:52:45.780
to her higher reward. Or maybe there was a family tragedy.
802
00:52:46.119 --> 00:52:50.239
And maybe the children are the ones who passed. And
803
00:52:50.340 --> 00:52:54.659
the parents come by nightly to pay their respects. Because
804
00:52:54.679 --> 00:52:57.699
maybe the children don't know that they're dead. And there's
805
00:52:57.820 --> 00:52:59.900
so many ways you can play with that from a
806
00:53:00.019 --> 00:53:04.260
narrative standpoint. It gives your games a bit more stakes
807
00:53:04.300 --> 00:53:09.300
to it. It adds a layer of emotional... texture that
808
00:53:09.400 --> 00:53:13.760
is not just ooh I'm the poltergeist or I'm Slimer
809
00:53:13.800 --> 00:53:16.719
from Ghostbusters or something right like hey Slimer was awesome
810
00:53:17.079 --> 00:53:19.880
Slimer was awesome but you give your characters texture and
811
00:53:19.940 --> 00:53:23.889
even to go beyond that to stick with the Ghostbusters
812
00:53:23.929 --> 00:53:29.630
here you can introduce other ghosts that maybe want to
813
00:53:29.750 --> 00:53:33.489
mess with the players like for example in the Ghostbusters
814
00:53:33.510 --> 00:53:37.800
cartoon the boogeyman is was a creature that preyed upon fear.
815
00:53:37.929 --> 00:53:41.909
So like a less deadly version of Freddy, but even
816
00:53:41.949 --> 00:53:46.849
through popular and urban myth, there's stuff like the Baba Yaga,
817
00:53:47.369 --> 00:53:50.159
stuff like that. You can play with traditional myth. You
818
00:53:50.179 --> 00:53:53.619
can play with urban folklore because we're talking mostly D
819
00:53:53.619 --> 00:53:56.119
& D, but you think about other creatures and cryptids
820
00:53:56.800 --> 00:54:00.519
that you could draw upon. Like I know, like I'm indigenous.
821
00:54:00.760 --> 00:54:05.510
We have a legend of skinwalkers. You could use that.
822
00:54:05.610 --> 00:54:09.469
You could use, um, like I know like one thing,
823
00:54:09.510 --> 00:54:11.280
a lot of people might not know about there actually
824
00:54:11.360 --> 00:54:17.159
is a cryptid that is local to Southern Ontario and
825
00:54:17.619 --> 00:54:22.860
Northern Michigan called the dog man. And there's been sightings as, um,
826
00:54:23.000 --> 00:54:27.320
as close as Niagara falls near Wayne fleet. So you
827
00:54:27.360 --> 00:54:31.679
can use cryptids in your games too, to introduce new
828
00:54:31.780 --> 00:54:35.949
layers of the unknown. to make your things that go
829
00:54:36.110 --> 00:54:37.800
bump in the night a little bit more scary.
830
00:54:38.380 --> 00:54:40.550
Yeah. Um, actually one of the things that I was
831
00:54:40.610 --> 00:54:43.659
thinking when you were talking about, uh, like the ghosts
832
00:54:44.119 --> 00:54:48.300
and like specifically when you'd mentioned like, you know, the, the, the,
833
00:54:48.519 --> 00:54:51.780
the guy who couldn't rest because, you know, his paladin
834
00:54:52.260 --> 00:54:57.199
ex-wife partner, what, what have you was, uh, not able
835
00:54:57.239 --> 00:55:00.940
to be laid to rest. Adding another layer onto that,
836
00:55:01.760 --> 00:55:08.980
maybe that paladin, uh, their corpse was raised as a, sorry,
837
00:55:09.099 --> 00:55:13.280
raised and then possessed and is now a death knight
838
00:55:13.320 --> 00:55:13.860
of some sort.
839
00:55:14.300 --> 00:55:17.050
Yeah. And that's a wonderful layer too, because like you
840
00:55:17.070 --> 00:55:20.550
think like the husband wants to see his wife brought
841
00:55:20.610 --> 00:55:24.809
home to rest, but knowing that something is wearing his
842
00:55:24.909 --> 00:55:29.539
wife's face and is out there causing trouble. That's awesome.
843
00:55:29.579 --> 00:55:33.650
And that's a story worth telling. And that's something where
844
00:55:33.730 --> 00:55:38.210
literally you could start this adventure off in a tavern
845
00:55:38.230 --> 00:55:40.849
and you see a guy sitting in the corner just
846
00:55:40.969 --> 00:55:44.880
crying and you're like, okay, that's a little weird. And maybe,
847
00:55:44.889 --> 00:55:50.159
because there's always a curious player in the party. Somebody
848
00:55:50.199 --> 00:55:55.480
walks over, gets the story and says, I can't tell you,
849
00:55:56.619 --> 00:56:00.619
but I can show you. And maybe they go and
850
00:56:00.659 --> 00:56:05.889
meet the paladins ghost and say I'm trapped here I
851
00:56:06.010 --> 00:56:09.030
can't move on because in D & D and other
852
00:56:09.130 --> 00:56:12.989
fantasy games there's like the ethereal plane the astral plane
853
00:56:13.670 --> 00:56:19.219
even planes of existence that represent the various alignments and
854
00:56:19.280 --> 00:56:23.099
stuff like that like there's so many layers of possibility
855
00:56:23.619 --> 00:56:26.139
it's not just this is the afterlife or this is
856
00:56:26.179 --> 00:56:28.619
this that and the other thing because I don't think
857
00:56:28.739 --> 00:56:34.489
ghosts are used to the potential that can be in games.
858
00:56:34.719 --> 00:56:37.789
Like they're a great enemy, but I think they're a
859
00:56:37.829 --> 00:56:43.630
better storytelling device. And even you can even use poltergeists
860
00:56:43.969 --> 00:56:47.690
to frighten your players. And what I mean by that
861
00:56:47.769 --> 00:56:49.530
is you, you give them a moment of safety. And
862
00:56:49.710 --> 00:56:51.469
I pulled this off in one game. I had the,
863
00:56:51.969 --> 00:56:55.590
I was watching evil dead too at the time. And
864
00:56:55.610 --> 00:56:57.929
it gave me an idea. Like they come to a cabin,
865
00:56:58.750 --> 00:57:02.079
And they start resting and suddenly the walls start bleeding
866
00:57:02.260 --> 00:57:05.920
or the door doesn't open and they start hearing weird noises.
867
00:57:06.679 --> 00:57:09.119
But I decided to break that moment of levity. Like
868
00:57:09.380 --> 00:57:11.699
they go to the basement and you think, oh my God,
869
00:57:11.760 --> 00:57:15.860
it's Henrietta. No, it's a giant weasel and it's family.
870
00:57:16.320 --> 00:57:18.820
Doesn't want to be bothered. Leave it alone. And my
871
00:57:18.840 --> 00:57:21.030
players like, oh my God, really? It was just a weasel.
872
00:57:21.949 --> 00:57:25.090
Maybe you don't know. But speaking of things you don't know,
873
00:57:25.750 --> 00:57:29.800
it's that time to take a break. Here on CFRU,
874
00:57:30.139 --> 00:57:32.900
this is 93.3. And also, this week on Geek.net, we're
875
00:57:32.940 --> 00:57:38.019
talking about spooky, scary stuff because Halloween's next weekend. And
876
00:57:38.079 --> 00:57:40.280
don't forget to stay tuned for the big giveaway. If
877
00:57:40.320 --> 00:57:44.280
you know what I'm talking about, Silver Shamrock. We'll be back, guys,
878
00:57:44.440 --> 00:57:47.780
right after this. Right here on the Spellbook on 93.3,
879
00:57:47.780 --> 00:57:49.920
Guelph and Campus Community Radio. This is CFRU.
880
00:57:50.059 --> 00:57:50.800
It's not enough.
881
00:57:51.000 --> 00:57:53.219
We have a gallery of villains to look out for.
882
00:57:53.420 --> 00:57:55.920
But now we could be infiltrated by a shape changer.
883
00:57:57.019 --> 00:57:58.860
I can't even tell if any of you are acting
884
00:57:58.900 --> 00:58:01.880
strange because you've been replaced or because this group is
885
00:58:01.920 --> 00:58:03.139
full of weirdos.
886
00:58:03.519 --> 00:58:06.739
Thanks for listening to this episode of The Spellbook. If
887
00:58:06.760 --> 00:58:09.820
you happen to have any comments or suggestions, please send
888
00:58:09.880 --> 00:58:14.099
us an email at thespellbookshow at gmail.com. We'd love to
889
00:58:14.119 --> 00:58:16.489
hear from you. And if you're hungry for more, you
890
00:58:16.530 --> 00:58:21.230
can find Mike at thisweekingeek.net covering a variety of nerdy topics.
891
00:58:21.849 --> 00:58:27.579
and Damian on YouTube at MagicalHackMates for more TTRPG conversation.
892
00:58:28.090 --> 00:58:28.760
That's it, man.
893
00:58:28.769 --> 00:58:29.530
Game over, man.
894
00:58:29.550 --> 00:58:30.489
It's game over.