Michael Kilpatrick, founder of Growing Farmers.

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Hi. I'm Michael Kilpatrick, host of the Thriving Farmer podcast,
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educator and founder of Growing Farmers, and this is the
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Good Foods Podcast.
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All of us are on a journey towards better health
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and we're grateful that you've allowed us to join you
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on your quest. In this episode, I've.
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Heard farmers go as far as this is completely wrong.
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Oh yeah, everything we use is organic and because they're
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basically thing as well, you know, all pesticides technically are
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made out of materials that are organic anyway. And I'm
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just like that is literally the biggest lie because they're
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using the different meaning of a word that someone else
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has asked.
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This is the Good Foods Podcast and now here's your
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host show, Dan.
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Thank you for coming on the podcast. Michael, and I
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have to give a shout out to the Londa Took
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farmer Joel Salaton for introducing us and making this happen.
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Absolutely yes, appreciate him giving you my info.
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Did you always want to be a farmer and did
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you come from a farming family background?
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No, so I came always from a background of growing
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things and being in nature, being outside and clearly remember
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when I was probably six or eight, you know, being
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outside in the heat and the bubs and my brother
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was inside reading a book. It was a very specific
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memory I have of that. But at that point, my
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dad was just growing a large garden to spend time
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with us kids, and so that was a great experience there.
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But when we moved to upstate New York, what we
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had was, you know, eight acres now to kind of
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make our own. And that is when my brother started
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a large garden, and then I went ahead and started
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helping him with that. Originally it was just to earn
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some pocket money to fund the other endeavors. But then
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I really found out I really enjoyed it, and that's
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all it took.
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So what was it like with the Stablers at Pleasant
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Valley Farm and how did your start there come about?
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Yeah, so working with Paul and Sandy. We met that
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at the farmer's market. So it was a you know,
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we've set up in a booth. Then down the market
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this other farm was there, and I remember actually our
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mentor at the time, Eric Pillmer, who was farming in Vermont,
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he was like, oh my gosh, you're going to this market.
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You know who goes to that market is Paul and
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Sandy and he kept saying, you know, they're like, you know,
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legends and all that stuff. You need to go introduce yourself.
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So we did that, and again there was super sharing
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and super open, and they took us under their wing
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and really just allowed us to go from them. I mean,
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I know when you went to the farm one of
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the first times we were working for them, and you know,
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completely messed onth it up. You know, we just did
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not know we were doing. So they you know, they
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were very gracious to kind of like just train us
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step by step through exactly what.
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It took to grow good food. Had you already started
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your own farm by this time? Did that come later
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or did you just have this garden?
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Yeah, no, we started our farm, so we started the
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garden probably I would say two thousand and one, two
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thousand and two, two thousand and three, I believe, is
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when we worked for Eric Kilmer, and then the next
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tew two thousand and fours when we started to go
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to the actual good farmers' markets and met Paul and Sandy.
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So then fast forward to twenty twelve and you became
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an intern at Polyface in Virginia. How did you find them?
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How did that come about how was that whole process.
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Like, Yeah, so introduction to poly face was actually through
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the Smithsonian article in two thousand than one, I believe.
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Actually our egg lady at the time brought it over
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and said, hey, you've got to see this. This is amazing.
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And you know, the whole thing was that through the years,
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had always wanted to be a farmer, always wanted to
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be an agriculture but I was always told there's no
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way to make money add it. So seeing poly based
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A being able to do it, b being able to
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do it regenitively, and see having the kind of lunatic
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aspect to it, you know, hobbing together cheap buildings and
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being you know, very vocal in their beliefs about you know,
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small government and just reducing regulation was something that we
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definitely resonate with.
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To someone that maybe hasn't worked on a farm or
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gone through the process to work on a farm like
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you have, what was that experience ad poly face like
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for you and your family? Michael?
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Yeah, So obviously we at that point in twenty twelve,
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We've been running our farm for almost a decades, so
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I was relatively experienced in hard work. I was very
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experienced in team management because we had quite a large
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team at that point. So I really went there to
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learn animals because we had a vegetable farm and so
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we were doing at that point probably fifteen acres of bestiables,
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but very specialized equipment. You know, large pieces of machinery
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been moving you know, one hundreds of thousands of dollars product.
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So you know, it really came down to is you know,
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at poly Face, I wanted the very specific skill set
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as well as I wanted that relationship. So I knew
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that poly Face was very hard to you know, get in,
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so I wanted to make sure you know, to me,
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if you're gonna go spend four months there, you're going
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to get a pretty significant in. And obviously, you know,
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since then, I've spoke at several of Joel's conferences. We
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bounced I das back and forth, so he's still a
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mentor to me to this day. But you know, the
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experience there was, you know, there's a lot of hard work.
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The living conditions were challenging. I mean, at that point,
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they just had a very basic trailer that six of
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us guys stayed in, so it was tight and there
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was no air conditioning and she had into a valley
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in the summer, so we had lots of fans and
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you know, we just dealt with it. Thankfully. I was
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still pretty young at the time. And you know, again
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experiences is there's nothing like it. I mean, you're basically,
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you know, right outside the door of your cabin. It's
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you know, cows on some days, and you know, up
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at five am to go caps chickens and do chores.
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You know, every day is going to be a little
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bit different. You know, someone who has not gotten that
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experience of being the background of farming, your body is
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already toughened up. They do have something they call the
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poly face sickness that you know usually hits about day
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four to and can put you down for a week.
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You know, just basically your body just kind of revolting
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a little bit trying to get acclimated to all of that.
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So it's definitely a you know, it's a shock. I
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mean again, if you've gone from you know, like you know,
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in school or an office job or even you know,
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any normal job and now you're out bailing hay or
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pulling chicken pens eight ten, twelve hours a day because
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again they didn't work you that long, but by the
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time your day was over, you were definitely putting in
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those tends of hours. It was definitely a different experience.
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I'm sorry, but I'm almost laughing about the poly face sickness.
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Is there a I don't think there's a prescription.
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For that, and it's not. So it's interesting like I
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didn't get it and my wife didn't get it, or
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if we did get it, it was so because my
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wife was interning at the same time I was. But
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you know, we didn't get it because again, we came
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from backgrounds of that hard labor. And I think too
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probably is you'll probably start to acclimate to you know,
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their water and all of that, and the micro biome
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of that water too, So I'm assuring that's part of
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it as well. But yeah, I mean again, if you
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have the experience and background of that and you're just
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used to that, then it's not going to hit you
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as hard.
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And just as an aside, how is your sleeping You're
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working all day, did you hit the pillow and then
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you were out?
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I've always been that way, so usually like I'll hit
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the pillow in five minutes, I'm out. But I'm a
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early riser, so I'm out and then i'm you know,
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up at you know, four five o'clock in the morning typically,
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But yeah, we absolutely slept well. I mean I would
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say that in the heat though, if it's you know,
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eighty five degree night, the humidity is high, even though
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you do have fans on, it can be a little
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bit challenging. But you know, we just, yeah, we were
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so tired, you just would sleep. I think that's still
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long and short of it.
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And lastly, I'm sure because maybe someone's wondering, Yeah, on
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a typical day, what time do you go to sleep,
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what time do you wake up?
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Yeah? Now, I uh, typically in bed by ten and
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ten thirty and then up at typically four thirty five
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o'clock is typically when I get up I should be
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going to bed a little bit earlier there at Polyphase
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typically is up by five thirty and well about the
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stain probably in bed by nine thirty or ten.
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I'm sure there were many, But what was one of
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the biggest takeaways you learned or experienced at poly Face.
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Yeah. I think the biggest thing you have to realize
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with farms is that every farm's going to be different. So,
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you know, I was there to learn systems and processes
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and principles. But I wasn't going to probably implement the
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exact same thing that poly Face has. It wasn't going
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to build myself a raking hause I wasn't going to,
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you know, do the number of chickens they were. I
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still don't use the chicken pens that they use. Like
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there's some better systems out there now, depending the size
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skill you're going for. But you know, poly Face has
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a specific way because it works for them, and I
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think the important thing is to look at it through
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the lens that they've got going on, and again take
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what you can and figure out the principles of why
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those work for them and the systems and how that works,
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and then you're going to adjust that to your farm
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once you get your operation going orrun a different farm.
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So I think that would be the number one thing is,
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you know, get you look at the systems, processes and
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princes of what regyative farm name is. And again that
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is high carbon, lots of trash on top of the soil,
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high impact for a very short period of time, focusing
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on sunlight being there as a great cleaner, and you know,
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I think the biggest thing too, is just you know,
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working as a team to get everything done.
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You've mentioned this couple of times now, the word regenerative.
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What does that mean to the consumer or someone that's
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never worked.
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On a farm. Yeah, So regenerative is the whole belief
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that through good farming principles, we can leave the planet
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better than we found it, so that what we're doing
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with the animals with plants is that we're increasing our
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soil organic matter, we are increasing the tilt of the
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soil or the structure of the soil, and we are
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producing a premium product. I think if any one of
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those three things is lacking, then we need to really
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look at our farming practices. And I think that's one
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of the problems with the exsertive organics setup, is that
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it's lacking the aspect that you're leaving the soil better.
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Because while you may be only using like certain things
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that aren't going to harm the soil, there's no standard
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that says, okay, you know, we're gonna start doing soil
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samples and test for the crumb of the soil or
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the structure of the soil. In some instances that I
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even using soil at all, and there's definitely farms out
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there which are you know, ten thousand cow CAFOs that
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are getting that curtaf At organic label. SURF Organic used
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to be I think one of the you know, gold standard,
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but I think, you know, I think to me, that's
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now more of a secondary standard. If you're suta f
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ed organic, okay, that's cool, but we need to be
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looking beyond that now and start working with some of
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these third party say like the Real Organic Project. There
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is a one out of Pennsylvania I think called Regenitive
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or something like that. If there's a couple out there
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which are doing a better job of actually making sure
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that the farm is more regenerative principles.
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So you've mentioned crumb of the soil. What does a
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farmer look for in good soil?
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Yeah, so I think the biggest thing is, you know,
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you're looking for the absorption rate of water, how much
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water it can take in if you like, put a
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shovel in it and pull it back and look what's
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underneath it. I mean you look at the floor on
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the fauna, like the different microbes and worms, and really
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I think one of the key tests and they showed
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this many times, grow great pictures that on our line
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is you know, taking a clumpass soil and dropping it
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into a large beaker, but it's held at the top
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by a mess screen and then good soil tilt, that
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chunk of soil will lose very little and it'll just
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kind of sit there. If it's got bad soil tilt,
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it's been like chilled many times, it's going to literally
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just fall through that screen and turn the whole water muddy. So,
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you know, the thing the goal with your soil is
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that you know, when you get rain, it's not going
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to instantly just you know, push it all over the
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place and cause it to run off the field. Your
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soil structure, your organic matter, your cover which is kind
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of what you want to be covering your soil as
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much as possible. That is going to hold that water
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and hold the soil, and so the water's going to infiltrate,
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it's going to be charged the agraifers and you're not
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going to see erosion.
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Are you constantly checking your soil?
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We are, I mean sad I did soil tests. We're
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getting ready to put our strawberries in the ground here
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in another couple of weeks, so we're just doing some
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different soil tests all over the farm and kind of
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see what we're looking at. We are, i'd say, diving
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way more into soils than we ever have. I think
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we're seeing some challenges with our irrigational water having high
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contaminants in it from just the multiple years of conventional
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farming in your area. And so part of that is,
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you know, we're we have to test our soils more
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frequently to see how we can counteract those contaminants.
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So how big is your farm? You mentioned strawberries. What
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are your commodities?
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Yeah, so we don't grow any commodities or eight acre
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urban farm. You're right in the city of Carlisle, Ohio.
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We bought this farm because we realize that Carlisle's around
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the areas are pretty much a little bit of food
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desert and the fact that the closest food sources are
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going to be your dollar generals and your gas stations,
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and so our goal with this farm is to create
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an alternative source for high quality, nutrient dense food for
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our community. But on the farm, we do a fair
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amount of perennials. So we do elderberries, blueberries, raspberries, blackberries,
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we do some comfrey, we do annual vegetables, so we
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do tomatoes, peppers, cucumbers, lots of lettuce, you know, turnups,
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carrots and beats. We do some cut flowers. We do
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then a lot of strawberries. Strawberries is probably our largest
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crop by acreage every single year, and that provides its
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actually significant portion of our income. That's all well, let's
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say ninety five percent you pick, and then we do
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pick a little bit ourselves for our store. But it
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attracts over three thousand people a year within about four
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to five week period on our farm. And again we
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probably will start cutting that back a little bit. We
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we're using about us at an acre every year, but
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we are going to start running here shortly into rotation issues,
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so we will probably start having to kind of steale
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that back a little bit just so we can get
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a better quality rotation going. And you know, it's just
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going to push the price out for supply goes down
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and people really want those berries. We're just going to
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sell out of our upick slots faster and we have
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to push the price up.
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I would imagine that farming and flying have one huge
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factor in common, and that's the weather. Since your livelihood
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depends greatly on what mother Nature has in store for
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you season after season. How do you and your team
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study and follow the weather compared to consumers.
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Yeah, so we're looking at it pretty frequently some days,
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you know, every hour, just to kind of see what
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storms are doing. But you know, we mitigate as much
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as we can with hoop passes. So we have about
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over over a half acre undercover on the farm now
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between hoophouses and greenhouses, and our high value crops are
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in there, sir peppers, tomatoes, ginger, turmeric, all those crops,
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basels are going to be in there, and that's just
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to make sure we have really high quality products. But
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what we do also is, you know, we're looking at
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the week out, so I'm looking this morning's like, okay,
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what's our weather look like, when's the rain gonna fall?
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And then we're going to create a field plan around
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that so we know the next couple of days can
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be nice and warm and dry. So today we're really
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focusing on cultivation and weeding. So I'm gonna go out
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and you know, weed all the brand new carrots and
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beats that we just planted for the fall. And then
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that what means is that you know, over the next
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couple days, all those weeds are gonna try out and die,
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and then if we have some major planting to do,
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we typically try to do that for the rain, although
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we do have irrigation on the farm so we can
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do that just irrigate afterwards, which we typically do as well.
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But yeah, it's a constant thing. And like one Sunday
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we noticed that they said, hey, we're going to have
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literally straight line winds and two inch hail coming through
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your area. So we went out with the team and
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we went in and just and picked all the onions
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out of the field and we actually had volunteers come in.
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So we spent a Sunday afternoon doing that and just
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set them in a puddle. We knew that the plastic
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out of the tunnel would be destroyed by two inch hail,
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but that wouldn't actually it wouldn't puncture, it would just
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destroy it. I meant to change it out, so we
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knew that we'd get it under the cover would be fine.
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We ended up not having the hail. But it's one
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of those things you're always watching because you never quite
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know what's going to happen. And I would say this
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year compared to other years, has been way more common
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to have these crazy weather events, and it's going to
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be more and more frequent. But this year especially, we've
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seen some major pop ups.
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Well to that end, and with respect to our changing planet.
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Since you started on this path, what weather changes have
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you witnessed over the years, I.
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Think it's just part of it's just more these seasons
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don't stay the same. So like this last winter, we
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had a very very light winter, to the point that
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most of January was above freezing, but Christmas was minus
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eight degrees. We had a massive cooling event then. Yeah,
359
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so it was really really really cool. Now, thankfully we're
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able to cover things. Stuff survived. We did trease some
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pipes and all of that, so that was real fun.
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But you know, again, January was really warm, so it
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was a matter of actually our covers were off for
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strawberries pretty much all winter except for that major coal event,
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because we're just trying to slow them down. We didn't
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want to grow too fast and advance too much. That's
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part of the challenges. I mean, like yesterday was I
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think ninety three degrees. But also we're seeing too where
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they'll say, hey, no rain today and then literally by noon,
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Oh my gosh, we're gonna have an event this afternoon.
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So just wild swings on the weather, which is I
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would much rather have, you know, five or six degrees
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colder and a lot more even of an environment than
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the warmer weather. Just these massive swings, because it's really
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challenging to be able to work with them and deal
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with these changes we.
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Otherwise over the years. Has there anything that scared you
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and or maybe inspired you.
379
00:16:02.879 --> 00:16:07.360
Twenty eleven, we had a massive flood and from Mott
380
00:16:07.399 --> 00:16:09.000
in New York got hit by I think it was
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a Hurricane irene. They just actually got hit a couple
382
00:16:11.519 --> 00:16:14.039
months ago by some massive floods as well, just from
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00:16:14.120 --> 00:16:15.960
the rain events, so they weren't even having Neo. It
384
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wasn't even driven by hurricanes, but I mean it was
385
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just as bad. I talked to one of the extension
386
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agents up there I've known for oh gosh, over a
387
00:16:23.600 --> 00:16:25.000
decade now, and I was like, Okay, how did it
388
00:16:25.039 --> 00:16:27.480
compare to my rate? He's like, actually, this was worse,
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he said, because it was just war widespread and the
390
00:16:32.320 --> 00:16:35.000
challenge was that crops were younger. So the thing is
391
00:16:35.080 --> 00:16:37.279
on that hit that was more of September, so we
392
00:16:37.279 --> 00:16:40.399
were like pulling crops in. But this was really right
393
00:16:40.399 --> 00:16:42.440
to mid the season really destroyed a bunch of things.
394
00:16:42.440 --> 00:16:44.600
So yeah, I'd say that was pretty much the worst
395
00:16:44.639 --> 00:16:49.159
weather event we went through. Hello inspired by whether it's
396
00:16:49.159 --> 00:16:51.879
more of just something we work with. I mean again,
397
00:16:52.000 --> 00:16:54.279
where I love it to be eighty two degrees every
398
00:16:54.360 --> 00:16:58.399
day and rain on Saturday morning from you know, midnight
399
00:16:58.440 --> 00:17:00.759
to six am. Yes, I would love that. We can't
400
00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:01.399
schedule them.
401
00:17:01.440 --> 00:17:05.039
What would you wish consumers knew or understood better about
402
00:17:05.079 --> 00:17:06.640
our farms and our farmers?
403
00:17:06.920 --> 00:17:09.279
Yeah, I think the biggest thing is just understand what
404
00:17:09.480 --> 00:17:12.440
the words mean. So one of the things that we
405
00:17:12.559 --> 00:17:14.599
hear a lot of people go to farmer's markets and
406
00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:16.920
they say, hey, is you know, are your vegetables organic?
407
00:17:17.640 --> 00:17:20.920
And I've heard farmers go as far as this is
408
00:17:20.960 --> 00:17:24.079
completely wrong. Oh yeah, everything we use is organic, and
409
00:17:24.200 --> 00:17:27.000
because they're basically thing as well, you know, all pesticides
410
00:17:27.039 --> 00:17:31.000
technically are made out of materials that are organic anyway,
411
00:17:31.039 --> 00:17:33.240
And I'm just like, that is literally the biggest lie
412
00:17:33.279 --> 00:17:35.440
because they're using the different meaning of a word that
413
00:17:35.480 --> 00:17:38.079
someone else is asking. So the biggest thing is like
414
00:17:38.119 --> 00:17:39.920
if you're going to a farmer's market and they do
415
00:17:39.960 --> 00:17:42.000
not have that surtif organic symbol. They have that surf
416
00:17:42.039 --> 00:17:44.400
ed organic symbol on their stand it, you're pretty stafe.
417
00:17:44.400 --> 00:17:46.720
I mean, again, it still might be hydroponic, but it's
418
00:17:46.759 --> 00:17:49.359
not be as nutrient dense, but it's still going to
419
00:17:49.359 --> 00:17:51.680
be free from the pesticides or besides that sort of
420
00:17:51.680 --> 00:17:53.839
thing typically, But if they don't have that, they need
421
00:17:53.920 --> 00:17:56.640
to start asking additional questions. And the additional questions you're
422
00:17:56.640 --> 00:17:58.359
going to ask is, okay, so what are you spraying?
423
00:17:58.680 --> 00:18:01.400
Because they may say, well, we don't strawberries. Well what
424
00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:03.000
they mean is they don't spray the strawberries during the
425
00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:07.119
strawberry season, they spray before that. So then you ask, okay, so, like,
426
00:18:07.319 --> 00:18:09.359
you know, how do you manage weeds? So that's the
427
00:18:09.400 --> 00:18:11.839
biggest questions. How do you manage books? You know, what
428
00:18:11.920 --> 00:18:15.000
things are you technically using? You want to ask they
429
00:18:15.559 --> 00:18:18.880
don't know or they kind of like don't really have
430
00:18:19.000 --> 00:18:21.880
answers for that. Then you kind of probably need to
431
00:18:21.880 --> 00:18:24.920
do deeper dive or just skip that stall. So you know,
432
00:18:24.960 --> 00:18:26.119
one of the things we can say is, you know,
433
00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:29.359
we're not certifying organic. We would consider ourself kids says,
434
00:18:29.359 --> 00:18:32.240
that's kind of the certification we came up with because again,
435
00:18:32.279 --> 00:18:34.319
we eat everything that we produce, and we are i
436
00:18:34.359 --> 00:18:36.559
would say beyond organic because we use the only thing
437
00:18:36.599 --> 00:18:38.359
I would say, it's actually sitting here on my desk.
438
00:18:38.400 --> 00:18:40.400
The only thing that we use that is not technically
439
00:18:40.480 --> 00:18:44.039
organic on the farm is rooting the hormone, and that's
440
00:18:44.079 --> 00:18:47.440
only in our nurseries for some very specific things. And
441
00:18:47.759 --> 00:18:50.519
actually this was something that's been they keep trying to
442
00:18:50.519 --> 00:18:52.799
add to the organic registry because there's really nothing else
443
00:18:52.920 --> 00:18:55.119
out like it on the market. But there are some
444
00:18:55.240 --> 00:18:58.640
organic rooting hormones, but it's like using willow water and
445
00:18:58.880 --> 00:19:01.599
honey and stuff like that that really doesn't it's not
446
00:19:01.680 --> 00:19:05.000
like stimulating the plant to produce roots. It's more protecting
447
00:19:05.039 --> 00:19:07.480
the plant. Typically the honey at least is protecting the
448
00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:09.680
plant from you know, bacteria and stuff, so it can
449
00:19:09.720 --> 00:19:12.119
actually just have time to put out roots. But that's
450
00:19:12.119 --> 00:19:14.200
really the only thing that we actually use on the farm,
451
00:19:14.559 --> 00:19:17.519
and it's literally just because there's nothing else like it,
452
00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:20.039
and it's typically for crops that are not going to
453
00:19:20.039 --> 00:19:21.599
go in the ground for a few years, or they're
454
00:19:21.759 --> 00:19:24.519
for our nursery stock, and we're simling. So that's literally
455
00:19:24.519 --> 00:19:27.039
the only thing we use that would not be considered
456
00:19:27.119 --> 00:19:29.960
certified organic here on the farm. The biggest thing again
457
00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:32.279
to kind of wrap that up is make sure that
458
00:19:32.359 --> 00:19:34.759
you're talking to your farmers and knowing what they're using.
459
00:19:35.599 --> 00:19:38.880
And it's one of those things that like strawberries, they
460
00:19:38.880 --> 00:19:41.039
are the dirty doesn't. And that's why we get such
461
00:19:41.039 --> 00:19:44.200
a premium price for our strawberries is because people know
462
00:19:44.279 --> 00:19:46.920
that we aren't using all these pile of different sprays
463
00:19:46.960 --> 00:19:49.119
on them, and we say we're safe enough to eat
464
00:19:49.160 --> 00:19:51.240
right out the field. Now we say we don't want
465
00:19:51.240 --> 00:19:52.759
to eat now the field because we haven't weigh your
466
00:19:52.799 --> 00:19:54.680
berries yet. But you definitely could.
467
00:19:54.839 --> 00:19:56.480
I get it you picked, but we got a wig.
468
00:19:56.400 --> 00:19:58.680
U yes, or we are going to or we got
469
00:19:58.680 --> 00:19:59.000
to weigh you.
470
00:19:59.200 --> 00:20:01.440
There you go, that's what to go. I know one
471
00:20:01.480 --> 00:20:04.000
of your many desires is to help small scale farmers
472
00:20:04.119 --> 00:20:07.359
learn and grow. But by today's standards, what would a
473
00:20:07.400 --> 00:20:09.799
small scale farm look like? Maybe? Typically?
474
00:20:09.960 --> 00:20:12.559
Yeah, I mean are you asking what does the average
475
00:20:12.559 --> 00:20:15.000
farm look like? Or what should the average farm look like?
476
00:20:15.240 --> 00:20:18.839
I guess what does a small scale farm size wise
477
00:20:18.880 --> 00:20:21.119
look like? What does that look like? I'm sure that
478
00:20:21.480 --> 00:20:24.200
there are many things that you can grow. But okay,
479
00:20:24.359 --> 00:20:26.519
you're a small scale farm. What does that look like?
480
00:20:26.720 --> 00:20:28.480
Yeah, So I think the problem is with the USDA
481
00:20:28.559 --> 00:20:31.359
definition because I think the USDA definition is way too broad.
482
00:20:31.400 --> 00:20:33.240
I think you know, anyone that has a horse could
483
00:20:33.240 --> 00:20:35.599
be considered a farm at a couple of acres. And
484
00:20:35.920 --> 00:20:37.519
between you and me, if you are a horse, farms
485
00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:40.079
typically losing money. There's not a lot of money made
486
00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:42.559
of the horse industry. It's like the yacht industry. A
487
00:20:42.599 --> 00:20:47.000
small problem farm to me, it can be anything eighth
488
00:20:47.000 --> 00:20:50.319
of an acre or larger to me. Really, farms really
489
00:20:50.359 --> 00:20:52.640
need to be in the value added game. You ask
490
00:20:52.720 --> 00:20:55.720
the question about commodities, and so if you're selling a commodity,
491
00:20:55.839 --> 00:20:58.160
like you're selling a flat of strawberries to the option,
492
00:20:58.240 --> 00:21:00.240
you're going to get what well, twenty bucks in the
493
00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:02.359
time of the year. But you know, when we sell
494
00:21:02.440 --> 00:21:04.680
flat of strawberries to somebody, they're going to pay us.
495
00:21:04.680 --> 00:21:06.759
You know, flat of strawberries for US is fourteen pounds at
496
00:21:06.759 --> 00:21:08.920
five twenty five pounds, so that's going to be fifty
497
00:21:08.920 --> 00:21:12.920
that's seventy five dollars. Now we've instantly made fifty dollars
498
00:21:12.960 --> 00:21:15.200
more than the flat's going to go into the market
499
00:21:15.240 --> 00:21:18.200
at a wholesale commodity price. But then we value add
500
00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:21.640
that we go from seventy to you know, sometimes seven
501
00:21:21.759 --> 00:21:23.920
hundred dollars when you're making like when we take the
502
00:21:23.960 --> 00:21:26.559
pure we make and turn into slushies. The thing is
503
00:21:26.559 --> 00:21:28.400
with looking at value added and looking at what your
504
00:21:28.400 --> 00:21:31.839
customer actually wants is huge and that's where the really
505
00:21:31.880 --> 00:21:33.480
the money is. So again go back to the eighth
506
00:21:33.480 --> 00:21:35.000
to pen acre form. That eight to binac or form
507
00:21:35.079 --> 00:21:37.599
could be growing salad mixes and for tomato plants and
508
00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:40.319
a few cucumbers and making these pre made salads. But
509
00:21:40.440 --> 00:21:42.839
have a few oert plants that they make some dressings
510
00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:44.799
out of, and they could be making twenty thirty thousand
511
00:21:44.799 --> 00:21:46.759
dollars a year. I have a friend of mine who's
512
00:21:46.799 --> 00:21:49.119
on an acre farm down in Tennessee, and I believe
513
00:21:49.200 --> 00:21:51.000
he will break PROB about eight hundred thousand this year.
514
00:21:51.000 --> 00:21:52.599
I don't know exact numbers, but he told me what
515
00:21:52.680 --> 00:21:54.160
he did last year. He told me where he is
516
00:21:54.200 --> 00:21:57.240
this year compared to that, and he should. Really he's
517
00:21:57.240 --> 00:21:59.720
doing some serious revenue now. He is doing some value added.
518
00:22:00.039 --> 00:22:02.480
He's doing his own pesto he's doing some salad dressings,
519
00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:05.319
he's doing vegetable trays and stuff. But a lot of
520
00:22:05.319 --> 00:22:08.079
this doesn't take that much extra work to do. Now,
521
00:22:08.079 --> 00:22:09.640
a lot of people complain about, well, I have to
522
00:22:09.680 --> 00:22:12.279
have a certified kitchen. Yeah, typically you're going to have
523
00:22:12.279 --> 00:22:15.079
to have a certified kitchen for this. Certified kitchen is
524
00:22:15.240 --> 00:22:18.039
very very easy to put together. You know, the paperwork
525
00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:20.359
looks way more intimidating than it is. I would say,
526
00:22:20.359 --> 00:22:22.920
get the inspector out there, And I think the biggest
527
00:22:22.920 --> 00:22:24.519
thing that I say, when you want to do this
528
00:22:25.400 --> 00:22:28.000
going very small, don't say I want to do soups
529
00:22:28.000 --> 00:22:30.279
and salads and all this stuff, going with one item
530
00:22:30.359 --> 00:22:32.119
and say hey, I want to make a pair of
531
00:22:32.319 --> 00:22:34.079
salads for market. Now, I'm not going to use meat,
532
00:22:34.079 --> 00:22:35.960
because if you start talking meat, that takes a whole
533
00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:38.680
new plan. So go on with the very minimal requirements
534
00:22:38.759 --> 00:22:41.079
and they'll make you do a very small kitchen. Then
535
00:22:41.079 --> 00:22:43.559
you can add other things once you have that kitchen license,
536
00:22:43.640 --> 00:22:45.759
because they don't really make you upgrade things after that
537
00:22:45.799 --> 00:22:48.680
initial build up. Typically. The biggest problem with all these
538
00:22:48.759 --> 00:22:51.240
rules and regulations about kitchens in the US is it
539
00:22:51.240 --> 00:22:54.640
all said that the words adequate or sufficient, and that
540
00:22:55.279 --> 00:22:58.200
beans that it. Then the person on the ground, the
541
00:22:58.240 --> 00:23:00.359
inspector on the ground, has leeway to do whatever the
542
00:23:00.400 --> 00:23:02.599
heck they want. The joke is, you asked a dozen
543
00:23:02.599 --> 00:23:05.279
different inspectors a question and you get thirteen or fourteen
544
00:23:05.279 --> 00:23:08.000
different answers, because with the inspectors, you know, they may
545
00:23:08.000 --> 00:23:09.640
have a different answer, different day of the week, and
546
00:23:09.640 --> 00:23:12.960
an other feeling. And again we have that because we've
547
00:23:13.000 --> 00:23:15.440
worked with so many different farmers across the US and
548
00:23:15.680 --> 00:23:18.799
just seeing what the inspectors have made them do. You know,
549
00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:20.960
it's one of those things. We had someone doing dried
550
00:23:21.000 --> 00:23:23.759
herbal teas and an inspector wanted them to first bleach
551
00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:26.920
the herbs before they dried the herbs, and the person said,
552
00:23:26.960 --> 00:23:29.200
not out of my dead body, I will not bleach
553
00:23:29.240 --> 00:23:31.119
to your dark because that's to destroy anything about it.
554
00:23:31.200 --> 00:23:33.400
You know, who wants to drink a herbal tea that's
555
00:23:33.400 --> 00:23:36.240
been bleached. So again, I'm not a huge fan of
556
00:23:36.519 --> 00:23:39.799
luck this as I feel heavy handed government intervention with
557
00:23:39.880 --> 00:23:41.920
the food system. I feel like the foods should really
558
00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:45.319
be a conversation or relationship between you and the farmer.
559
00:23:45.599 --> 00:23:47.640
But again, and maybe if I kind of clarify what
560
00:23:47.680 --> 00:23:50.160
I said earlier about like really making sure you know
561
00:23:50.200 --> 00:23:52.319
what's in your food. To clarify that and say you
562
00:23:52.359 --> 00:23:54.720
really need to have a relationship with your farmer. He's
563
00:23:54.759 --> 00:23:56.000
you need to be out to the farm. You need
564
00:23:56.039 --> 00:23:57.480
to say I don't have time for that. Well, you
565
00:23:57.480 --> 00:23:59.240
know what are you taking the Disney vacation this year?
566
00:23:59.319 --> 00:24:01.440
Cut that ba case? In short, it's been a couple
567
00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:03.880
of days on the farm with your farmer, because I
568
00:24:04.079 --> 00:24:06.200
say that's going to be way more important to your
569
00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:09.200
overall health than you know, a couple of extra days
570
00:24:09.200 --> 00:24:10.519
of R and R at the Disney Kingdom.
571
00:24:10.559 --> 00:24:13.240
Well, to that end, what would you suggest instead of
572
00:24:13.279 --> 00:24:16.680
cutting the vacation in half or canceling it altogether because
573
00:24:16.720 --> 00:24:17.440
food is important?
574
00:24:17.480 --> 00:24:18.839
Well, I think if we go back to look at
575
00:24:18.839 --> 00:24:21.440
footners on medicine, we believe that true. But yeah, finish
576
00:24:21.519 --> 00:24:22.119
up what you're saying.
577
00:24:22.160 --> 00:24:24.079
No, I agree with you there, but I've rates it wrong.
578
00:24:24.200 --> 00:24:26.920
Because at the end, when we meet our end of
579
00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:29.359
our path, what's going to be the most important thing?
580
00:24:29.480 --> 00:24:31.039
Fun or the food? The food's going to be the
581
00:24:31.079 --> 00:24:31.839
most important thing.
582
00:24:31.920 --> 00:24:34.119
Yeah, I think I think life is more sumportant.
583
00:24:34.160 --> 00:24:35.400
Yeah, that goes to the top of the list.
584
00:24:35.480 --> 00:24:37.680
Yeah, but I think too. You know, this is again
585
00:24:37.759 --> 00:24:40.119
from my friend Ray down to Tennessee. One of his
586
00:24:40.160 --> 00:24:43.759
biggest things has always been about the relationships. So you know, again,
587
00:24:44.440 --> 00:24:46.359
I don't know, it depends on your family unit. You
588
00:24:46.400 --> 00:24:48.039
know who you peap people have in their family unit.
589
00:24:48.039 --> 00:24:50.960
If you're you know, classic American family mom, dad to kids,
590
00:24:51.559 --> 00:24:54.599
you know, working on those relationships too. So your kids
591
00:24:54.640 --> 00:24:56.880
are by your deathbed, I think is super important because
592
00:24:56.920 --> 00:24:59.440
unfortunately there's many that they aren't. They're a strange or
593
00:24:59.480 --> 00:25:01.839
something like that. So again, maybe you're foregoing that vacation,
594
00:25:01.960 --> 00:25:03.599
but your old family is going to go spend some
595
00:25:03.640 --> 00:25:06.400
time on the farm together. Your farmer is going to
596
00:25:06.440 --> 00:25:10.160
appreciate that couple hundred bucks way more. But yeah, spending
597
00:25:10.200 --> 00:25:12.920
that time so you can have that relationship with your farmer,
598
00:25:13.279 --> 00:25:15.279
so you're you know, shopping at your local farmers market
599
00:25:15.319 --> 00:25:18.119
or establishing those relationships so you can have good food.
600
00:25:18.599 --> 00:25:21.880
Because again, food is something that I think is so
601
00:25:22.200 --> 00:25:24.720
undervalued in the US. If you look at other countries,
602
00:25:24.759 --> 00:25:28.480
other countries spend way more capita on food than we do.
603
00:25:28.680 --> 00:25:31.000
I mean again, going to farm the table, dinners, just
604
00:25:31.119 --> 00:25:32.920
learning about food. I mean one of the things people
605
00:25:32.920 --> 00:25:35.079
don't realize is there's so many plants that we can
606
00:25:35.160 --> 00:25:37.519
eat that are at our feet in your backyard, and
607
00:25:37.640 --> 00:25:39.799
just understanding that would be something that I'd be think
608
00:25:39.880 --> 00:25:42.440
worth an afternoon if you and your family learning what's
609
00:25:42.519 --> 00:25:44.640
good and what's bad. Because there are a top of
610
00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:46.279
things on your land that you probably can kill you
611
00:25:46.319 --> 00:25:49.119
as well. So you know, looking at that understanding that
612
00:25:49.160 --> 00:25:51.519
I think would be way more helpful for you. But yeah,
613
00:25:51.599 --> 00:25:54.119
going to your farm, taking a tour, helping them out,
614
00:25:54.160 --> 00:25:56.440
say hey, I'm here for the afternoon, tell me where
615
00:25:56.559 --> 00:25:58.640
some weeds are. Oh, if I have a skill that
616
00:25:58.680 --> 00:26:01.240
the farmer doesn't that maybe you're great marketing or taking
617
00:26:01.240 --> 00:26:03.079
some photos. Say hey, I'd love to take some photos
618
00:26:03.079 --> 00:26:05.000
on the farm feed this afternoon, just so that you
619
00:26:05.039 --> 00:26:07.200
can have some great photos to sell your product with
620
00:26:07.640 --> 00:26:09.720
because everyone buys with their eyes and so if you
621
00:26:09.720 --> 00:26:12.039
can have beautiful photos that has could be really helpful
622
00:26:12.079 --> 00:26:14.640
for the farmer. So those are all things that you
623
00:26:14.680 --> 00:26:17.920
can do. And just having that relationship, understanding more about
624
00:26:17.920 --> 00:26:20.599
why they farm, and you know, I would say most
625
00:26:20.599 --> 00:26:24.200
farmers have too little time and typically if they're a
626
00:26:24.319 --> 00:26:26.480
decent grower, they're gonna have more vessels in it to
627
00:26:26.519 --> 00:26:27.920
do with, and so if you can help them with
628
00:26:27.960 --> 00:26:30.200
some marketing or help them sell more product, they're could
629
00:26:30.200 --> 00:26:31.119
be incredibly grateful.
630
00:26:31.240 --> 00:26:33.599
What's the biggest hurdle that you've come across or that
631
00:26:33.680 --> 00:26:37.119
you feel is facing the US as we move forward
632
00:26:37.440 --> 00:26:40.039
with how farming has changed even since you've started.
633
00:26:40.119 --> 00:26:45.079
I would say labor trained educated people to join our
634
00:26:45.119 --> 00:26:47.799
teams and to help us in our mission. Right now
635
00:26:47.799 --> 00:26:49.599
we're at a really good place in our farm, but
636
00:26:49.599 --> 00:26:51.880
we have definitely struggled over the last couple of years
637
00:26:51.880 --> 00:26:54.240
to really bring in people that can do the work
638
00:26:54.319 --> 00:26:58.279
because it's very specialized, it's hot, it's long hours, and
639
00:26:58.319 --> 00:26:59.960
you know, a lot of people don't want something like that.
640
00:27:00.319 --> 00:27:01.799
So I would say that is the biggest thing. I mean,
641
00:27:01.839 --> 00:27:05.079
there is a from H two A bringing in you know, Mexican,
642
00:27:05.119 --> 00:27:08.160
Guatemala and Jamaican, but that has the last couple of
643
00:27:08.240 --> 00:27:11.480
years been incredibly challenging with both political parties fighting over
644
00:27:11.599 --> 00:27:13.960
you know, who's allowed it who's not, And I would
645
00:27:13.960 --> 00:27:16.160
say it's both their fault and you know, again I'm
646
00:27:16.200 --> 00:27:18.759
on the side of the human, but to me, as
647
00:27:18.799 --> 00:27:20.680
a human who's looking for a better life, and there
648
00:27:20.720 --> 00:27:22.119
just needs to be a better way than be able
649
00:27:22.119 --> 00:27:24.880
to get across and make that life. And again we
650
00:27:24.960 --> 00:27:26.400
need it, you know. I talk it to the other
651
00:27:26.440 --> 00:27:29.119
farmer today is literally he had some team and he
652
00:27:29.200 --> 00:27:30.880
literally had to fire every single one of them this
653
00:27:31.000 --> 00:27:33.960
year and he's now has a family that's from Mexico
654
00:27:34.039 --> 00:27:36.200
that's working full time and he said he could be happier.
655
00:27:36.599 --> 00:27:38.680
So again there is that challenge. And again we love
656
00:27:38.680 --> 00:27:40.640
to hire local people and I would right now one
657
00:27:40.680 --> 00:27:43.640
hundred percent of our team is you know, is from
658
00:27:43.720 --> 00:27:45.599
this area where we actually have a couple of people
659
00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:47.559
remote on our team that are in like other states.
660
00:27:47.880 --> 00:27:49.759
But we are bringing you know, h two a laboring
661
00:27:49.759 --> 00:27:52.039
at this point, not that we won't. We are looking
662
00:27:52.079 --> 00:27:54.759
at that seriously because of the challenges we're having. But
663
00:27:54.920 --> 00:27:57.599
you know, labor is the biggest challenge. And you know,
664
00:27:57.799 --> 00:27:59.640
I think a lot of kids go to school and
665
00:27:59.680 --> 00:28:02.079
there nearly not sure what they need to want to
666
00:28:02.119 --> 00:28:03.799
do in their life, and so they just go to school.
667
00:28:04.759 --> 00:28:06.799
I would account of that and say they should go
668
00:28:06.880 --> 00:28:09.279
learn to trade. So you know, two years to learn
669
00:28:09.279 --> 00:28:11.880
how to frame a house or to you know, plumb
670
00:28:11.880 --> 00:28:15.680
a bathroom will give you way some really hard skills
671
00:28:15.799 --> 00:28:17.039
that when you do know what you want to do,
672
00:28:17.119 --> 00:28:19.480
now you can go to school. You always have something
673
00:28:19.480 --> 00:28:21.720
that either you can use for yourself or that you
674
00:28:21.759 --> 00:28:23.680
can have a hard skill that you can go into
675
00:28:23.680 --> 00:28:25.960
the marketplace with. Because we're seeing right now just a
676
00:28:26.119 --> 00:28:28.640
massive challenge in that area and it's only going to
677
00:28:28.680 --> 00:28:31.319
increase because just the people that know you. Again, you
678
00:28:31.319 --> 00:28:33.000
have a lot of people that learning some of these things,
679
00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:34.759
but a lot of them aren't learning how to work
680
00:28:34.799 --> 00:28:38.160
with old houses plumb a new house. But again most
681
00:28:38.240 --> 00:28:40.400
for houses in the US are old. You know, one
682
00:28:40.400 --> 00:28:42.400
thing I would say is labor is the biggest challenge.
683
00:28:42.640 --> 00:28:44.440
But my advice to seller that does want to go
684
00:28:44.480 --> 00:28:47.519
into farming is first make sure you have a two
685
00:28:47.599 --> 00:28:50.799
year associate's degree in marketing and business because the Mymntor
686
00:28:50.839 --> 00:28:54.000
Paul said to me, Michael, first you're going to you're
687
00:28:54.039 --> 00:28:57.079
a marketer, then you're a business owner, and finally you're
688
00:28:57.079 --> 00:28:59.880
a farmer. You've got to have those skills to manage
689
00:28:59.920 --> 00:29:02.039
to business because farm is just a business.
690
00:29:02.039 --> 00:29:04.119
Can you clarify what H two A is for US? Oh?
691
00:29:04.160 --> 00:29:06.960
Yeah. H two A is a US program that allows
692
00:29:07.119 --> 00:29:10.519
foreign workers from foreign countries to come in on the
693
00:29:10.559 --> 00:29:13.599
agricultural decess, so they're here to do very specific work.
694
00:29:13.960 --> 00:29:15.720
They have to be in a specific farm, they have
695
00:29:15.799 --> 00:29:17.960
to be given specific housing, you have to take them
696
00:29:17.960 --> 00:29:21.119
to the grocery store. Unannounced visits by the Labor Department
697
00:29:21.200 --> 00:29:22.599
will come in and just check things out. And it
698
00:29:22.640 --> 00:29:25.640
has been incredibly effective. But I will say the problem
699
00:29:25.680 --> 00:29:28.839
is different administrations have used it as kind of almost
700
00:29:28.839 --> 00:29:32.559
a tool to threaten people if they say, well, we
701
00:29:32.559 --> 00:29:34.279
won't let you bring your people up this year. So
702
00:29:34.319 --> 00:29:37.240
that has happened, and it's made it credible challenging for
703
00:29:37.319 --> 00:29:39.960
the food grown in the US right now. The most
704
00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:42.599
recent one is in Florida. Is they're making it really
705
00:29:42.680 --> 00:29:45.440
challenging and to get a lot of vegetables are grown
706
00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:47.279
in Florida. You know. That is actually my local guy
707
00:29:47.359 --> 00:29:49.359
here that I was talking to. The family that's working
708
00:29:49.400 --> 00:29:52.119
for him was in Florida and they kind of left
709
00:29:52.160 --> 00:29:54.920
because it was getting too challenging for them to be there.
710
00:29:55.000 --> 00:29:57.119
From the outside looking in with the state of the
711
00:29:57.160 --> 00:30:00.799
world we're in, Michael, what question or questions are farmers
712
00:30:01.039 --> 00:30:01.920
not being asked?
713
00:30:02.000 --> 00:30:04.640
I think the biggest thing, I mean, they're not being
714
00:30:04.880 --> 00:30:08.880
asked what the actual challenges on the ground are. I mean,
715
00:30:08.880 --> 00:30:10.920
a lot of people like to put in like their
716
00:30:10.960 --> 00:30:13.359
own version of you know what the challenges are, but
717
00:30:13.400 --> 00:30:15.119
they don't realize is that, you know, a lot of
718
00:30:15.119 --> 00:30:16.720
the times, a lot of people say, well, farmers are
719
00:30:16.759 --> 00:30:19.359
just too expensive, small farms are too expensive. But what
720
00:30:19.400 --> 00:30:21.799
they don't realize the amount of brigatory burden on these
721
00:30:21.839 --> 00:30:24.920
farms everything from you know, city code regulations all the
722
00:30:24.920 --> 00:30:27.240
way up to you know, exactly what they can and
723
00:30:27.279 --> 00:30:29.000
can't do with the produce or the if they're a
724
00:30:29.079 --> 00:30:31.720
larger farm, the FISMA rules they have to comply with
725
00:30:31.759 --> 00:30:34.680
that literally change every single year for them. So you know,
726
00:30:34.680 --> 00:30:36.119
that's I think the biggest thing is, you know, what
727
00:30:36.200 --> 00:30:38.480
the actual cost of food production is. But I think
728
00:30:38.519 --> 00:30:40.599
the biggest thing I would say to farmers you know
729
00:30:40.640 --> 00:30:43.039
that are thinking about, you know, changing things up, is
730
00:30:43.359 --> 00:30:45.759
what does your customer actually want? That's the biggest question
731
00:30:45.920 --> 00:30:48.799
that we're always asking and literally our customers have you know,
732
00:30:48.920 --> 00:30:51.200
guided exactly what we've done this farm over the last
733
00:30:51.200 --> 00:30:54.240
three years that we built this farm, and this farm
734
00:30:54.279 --> 00:30:57.279
should do the same revenue that my farm in New
735
00:30:57.359 --> 00:30:59.319
York did that for twelve years. For us to get
736
00:30:59.359 --> 00:31:01.400
to that revenue there. It will take us three years
737
00:31:01.400 --> 00:31:03.759
to get to here. And granted we have a little
738
00:31:03.759 --> 00:31:06.599
bit different reforms set up, and you know, get inflation
739
00:31:06.680 --> 00:31:08.160
has happened, so some of our prices are a little
740
00:31:08.200 --> 00:31:10.279
bit higher. But I would say, you know where we're
741
00:31:10.319 --> 00:31:12.559
growing so fast as we're just keep asking our customers
742
00:31:12.599 --> 00:31:14.039
what do you want? What do you want next? And
743
00:31:14.079 --> 00:31:16.480
then we do that and then we continue to scale.
744
00:31:16.359 --> 00:31:18.079
As best as you can tell. And this might be
745
00:31:18.319 --> 00:31:20.440
too broad of a question, but do you feel that
746
00:31:20.480 --> 00:31:22.799
the powers that be are working on putting a plan
747
00:31:22.880 --> 00:31:26.160
in place that will fortify our farming community over the
748
00:31:26.279 --> 00:31:26.960
coming decades.
749
00:31:27.319 --> 00:31:29.880
You're talking about like more of government. Yes, I mean
750
00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:32.799
a lot of aspects they're clueless and a lot of
751
00:31:32.839 --> 00:31:35.400
aspects they're being full into special interest group. To me,
752
00:31:35.440 --> 00:31:37.720
the farm here is a special interest group and it's
753
00:31:37.799 --> 00:31:41.359
mainly geared towards and soy farms and a lot of
754
00:31:41.519 --> 00:31:43.880
you know, a lot of these politicians or a lot
755
00:31:43.920 --> 00:31:45.519
of them are farmers themselves. I mean, there's a figure
756
00:31:45.559 --> 00:31:47.680
number of farmers that our farmers themselves that are profiting
757
00:31:47.680 --> 00:31:50.519
from these government programs that literally pay you to plant
758
00:31:50.640 --> 00:31:53.960
or not to plant. Commodity crops. So like, we all
759
00:31:54.000 --> 00:31:57.319
know that ethanol is a net energy loss, but we
760
00:31:57.400 --> 00:31:59.920
keep doing it because it's got a couple set of
761
00:32:00.559 --> 00:32:03.480
are a. Congressmen are very keen keeping it because their
762
00:32:03.519 --> 00:32:05.799
constituents want it because it helps them make more money
763
00:32:05.799 --> 00:32:08.279
in their farms, and John Deere wants it because helps
764
00:32:08.319 --> 00:32:10.319
the still more tractors. It's kind of like we're standing
765
00:32:10.359 --> 00:32:12.920
here with the Emperor and no clothes and we're still
766
00:32:12.920 --> 00:32:16.039
polluting our waterways and destroy our soils and making a
767
00:32:16.079 --> 00:32:18.519
product that's you know, energy and efficient because all these
768
00:32:18.519 --> 00:32:20.440
companies have money tied up in the system. You know.
769
00:32:20.480 --> 00:32:22.480
I think if we were truly a climate emergency, they
770
00:32:22.480 --> 00:32:25.279
really truly believe we're in a climate emergency, then it
771
00:32:25.319 --> 00:32:28.440
would actually do what actually needs to be done. But
772
00:32:28.759 --> 00:32:31.599
until it actually affects their door, they're not going to.
773
00:32:31.720 --> 00:32:33.680
Now again, I'm not going to say there aren't any
774
00:32:33.720 --> 00:32:36.039
programs for small farms. I mean, we just this year
775
00:32:36.079 --> 00:32:38.279
got an NRCS high tunnel grant. I think to me,
776
00:32:38.400 --> 00:32:40.519
the NRCS program is one of the best programs that
777
00:32:40.519 --> 00:32:43.039
they put in place. Again, the amount of millions that
778
00:32:43.079 --> 00:32:45.079
go into it are just a drop in the bucket
779
00:32:45.480 --> 00:32:48.039
compared to what goes out and just subsidy payments. But
780
00:32:48.039 --> 00:32:50.559
if we spend the same amount of money on research
781
00:32:50.599 --> 00:32:54.119
to development for small farms and training small farms, so
782
00:32:54.119 --> 00:32:57.240
they understood the business side as well as you know,
783
00:32:57.319 --> 00:33:00.440
helping them get access to value adding facial so that
784
00:33:00.480 --> 00:33:03.200
they could do you know, jams and pickles and jellies
785
00:33:03.200 --> 00:33:06.079
and all this stuff. But it's been stated by the government.
786
00:33:06.160 --> 00:33:07.759
You know, this was something that was stated in a
787
00:33:07.839 --> 00:33:10.839
government conference that we want to reduce the number of
788
00:33:11.319 --> 00:33:15.200
licenses for commercials kitchen spaces. That was one of their
789
00:33:15.200 --> 00:33:18.039
stated goals. And the reason for that is it's easier
790
00:33:18.039 --> 00:33:20.079
for their people to keep track of. So if you
791
00:33:20.200 --> 00:33:22.079
have one side out there saying, hey, we want to
792
00:33:22.119 --> 00:33:24.200
reduce these types of things, because then we don't have
793
00:33:24.240 --> 00:33:27.680
to have as many inspectors, and so that automatically realized.
794
00:33:27.720 --> 00:33:30.559
And who's the easiest person to eliminate the small guy?
795
00:33:30.720 --> 00:33:32.440
Because the small guy is the one that actually takes
796
00:33:32.440 --> 00:33:35.119
you to think. I mean these massive operations with you know,
797
00:33:35.279 --> 00:33:37.440
like these Hindes facilities that you know, produce a million
798
00:33:37.519 --> 00:33:40.440
accus a day. You know, you walk in, you look
799
00:33:40.440 --> 00:33:42.319
at the things you're done, but these small ones are
800
00:33:42.319 --> 00:33:44.559
the ones that are challenging for them. So again you've
801
00:33:44.559 --> 00:33:46.440
got this stated aspect of them who really want to
802
00:33:46.480 --> 00:33:48.440
run their small guide out, but then they put a
803
00:33:48.480 --> 00:33:50.799
few token programs in there. And again I'm not saying
804
00:33:50.839 --> 00:33:54.240
everyone's bad. There are definitely some good government agents out there.
805
00:33:54.240 --> 00:33:56.519
I've met some fabulous people that works the governments, some
806
00:33:56.559 --> 00:33:58.480
people that really had a heart of gold and were
807
00:33:58.480 --> 00:34:01.440
in the system and the unfortunately they're just system. But
808
00:34:01.559 --> 00:34:04.480
you also have these bureaucrats who they're just there to
809
00:34:04.519 --> 00:34:07.599
get high in the hog and get a retirement package.
810
00:34:07.640 --> 00:34:11.320
And again it's unfortunate, but it's definitely out there. I've
811
00:34:11.360 --> 00:34:13.320
met some of those too. I'm going to say one
812
00:34:13.320 --> 00:34:16.599
of the interesting things what happened during the pandemic years
813
00:34:17.079 --> 00:34:20.360
is it really strained the food system and it actually
814
00:34:20.360 --> 00:34:24.199
made some bureaucrats look at some challenges and so they
815
00:34:24.320 --> 00:34:27.760
put some money towards creating some more regional and smaller
816
00:34:27.800 --> 00:34:31.119
scale meat processing facilities. Because again we realize that you know,
817
00:34:31.159 --> 00:34:34.119
when you have a Tyson plan down, that causes a
818
00:34:34.119 --> 00:34:37.719
big blip. But unfortunately, I don't know if that's gonna
819
00:34:37.719 --> 00:34:40.400
actually stick because again we're back to business as usual,
820
00:34:40.800 --> 00:34:42.679
and I don't want to be you know, a little
821
00:34:42.679 --> 00:34:45.079
bit of a dollar here. But I also realized, you
822
00:34:45.119 --> 00:34:47.559
know again, I also look at kind of the reality
823
00:34:47.599 --> 00:34:50.480
of the situation. But I will say this kind of
824
00:34:50.519 --> 00:34:52.280
sum all this upright, just set and feel like I'm
825
00:34:52.320 --> 00:34:56.360
complaining there. A little bit is that when citizens band
826
00:34:56.400 --> 00:35:01.239
together and put pressure politicians and beer need to be elected,
827
00:35:02.039 --> 00:35:04.320
and if you put the slightest pressure, a lot of
828
00:35:04.320 --> 00:35:06.960
times they will make massive changes quickly. I mean we
829
00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:09.960
saw that in our little city here. When we first
830
00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:12.760
moved into town, we had some major challenges with some
831
00:35:12.920 --> 00:35:15.239
zoning and stuff we had to get changed or worked on.
832
00:35:15.800 --> 00:35:18.719
We put out the community about the challenges and we
833
00:35:18.800 --> 00:35:21.280
got over five hundred signatures, and we got over one
834
00:35:21.320 --> 00:35:24.480
hundred comments. I took the stack of comments and signatures
835
00:35:24.559 --> 00:35:28.639
up to the desk of the zoning committee meeting and
836
00:35:28.719 --> 00:35:30.320
dropped it on there. And so this is what your
837
00:35:30.360 --> 00:35:34.719
constituents think of what you're doing. They were thinging different too,
838
00:35:34.840 --> 00:35:37.199
very quickly. So I say, there's definitely opportunity. I think
839
00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:39.599
the biggest thing is we just have to slow down,
840
00:35:40.079 --> 00:35:42.480
look at our food system and start talking to our
841
00:35:42.480 --> 00:35:45.960
bureaucrats and our politicians because again, a lot of them
842
00:35:46.480 --> 00:35:48.599
are only doing what they're doing because they don't know
843
00:35:48.639 --> 00:35:51.320
any better, They're being pushed by special interest groups, or
844
00:35:51.360 --> 00:35:53.840
they just don't know. And so if they can understand
845
00:35:53.880 --> 00:35:56.480
what's really going on and what really the challenges are,
846
00:35:56.960 --> 00:35:59.679
they will be more than happy to make changes. We've
847
00:35:59.679 --> 00:36:03.519
seen some massive changes. Tennessee just passed some fatuous legislation.
848
00:36:03.920 --> 00:36:06.199
Maye has passed some fabulous legislation recently.
849
00:36:06.519 --> 00:36:06.960
Ohio.
850
00:36:07.199 --> 00:36:08.679
They've got a lot of work to do. A lot
851
00:36:08.719 --> 00:36:10.000
of the states to have a lot of work to do.
852
00:36:10.079 --> 00:36:12.239
But we are seeing some you know, flips on the
853
00:36:12.320 --> 00:36:14.280
radar or some awesome things going on, and we just
854
00:36:14.280 --> 00:36:17.639
want to continue that and help that trading work, freedom
855
00:36:17.800 --> 00:36:21.000
and more advantageousness for small family farms.
856
00:36:21.119 --> 00:36:23.119
Michael, if you could run an ad in the biggest
857
00:36:23.159 --> 00:36:26.719
game in February, what would your thirty second message be about?
858
00:36:27.119 --> 00:36:29.800
Yeah, that actually is a really good question. Oh yeah,
859
00:36:29.800 --> 00:36:33.400
that's a good question because the problem is you can't
860
00:36:33.440 --> 00:36:35.719
go too far, Like I can't tell a corn and
861
00:36:35.760 --> 00:36:38.119
bean farmer start making pickles in your kitchen because he's
862
00:36:38.159 --> 00:36:40.639
just not going to understand that. I mean a corn
863
00:36:40.639 --> 00:36:42.440
and bean farmer. I can start saying, well, maybe grow
864
00:36:42.480 --> 00:36:45.239
some popcorn, or maybe grow you know, a couple of
865
00:36:45.280 --> 00:36:47.840
days of sweetcorn, or you know, some of these other things,
866
00:36:47.960 --> 00:36:51.079
or maybe look at you know, taking your pedgeways and
867
00:36:51.159 --> 00:36:53.719
your waterways and putting them with elderberry's, so you know,
868
00:36:53.760 --> 00:36:55.119
these are the kinds of things you can get these
869
00:36:55.119 --> 00:36:58.719
little changes. But I think unfortunately, sometimes and it's we
870
00:36:58.800 --> 00:37:00.840
really found this with our team, a lot of times
871
00:37:00.880 --> 00:37:03.719
it's easier just to completely take the old farmer, kick
872
00:37:03.760 --> 00:37:06.880
them out, and get someone brand new that's movable. So
873
00:37:06.960 --> 00:37:08.920
I think that may be part of the thing too.
874
00:37:09.079 --> 00:37:11.480
But I think the biggest thing that we can teach
875
00:37:11.519 --> 00:37:14.400
farmers is how to run the numbers, because numbers don't lie,
876
00:37:14.840 --> 00:37:18.000
and when you can show them the profitability of something,
877
00:37:18.280 --> 00:37:20.920
that makes them perk up a lot faster. Problem is
878
00:37:20.920 --> 00:37:24.000
you're facing that almost that prejudice from the older generation
879
00:37:24.079 --> 00:37:25.079
that we have to work around to.
880
00:37:25.480 --> 00:37:28.280
And finally, Michael Joe Salaton informed us that over the
881
00:37:28.280 --> 00:37:31.039
course of the next fifteen years, farming was going to
882
00:37:31.119 --> 00:37:34.079
change dramatically because so many farmers were going to be
883
00:37:34.159 --> 00:37:38.440
aging out. As he said, are we enticing or recruiting
884
00:37:38.639 --> 00:37:41.599
new farmers to replace those that will be aging out.
885
00:37:41.880 --> 00:37:45.159
That's a babulous question because he is absolutely under percent right.
886
00:37:45.239 --> 00:37:48.880
Farmers are aging out, and that's a creating massive gaps.
887
00:37:49.119 --> 00:37:52.000
It's also making farms go larger. But I think the
888
00:37:52.039 --> 00:37:54.880
biggest problem is we're not attracting new farmers. And there's
889
00:37:54.880 --> 00:37:57.280
a number of reasons why. For one thing, they're getting
890
00:37:57.280 --> 00:37:59.719
a weird agree and you know, liberal arts or something
891
00:37:59.760 --> 00:38:03.400
like that, or grammar or you know, English, which unfortunately
892
00:38:03.400 --> 00:38:06.760
with jat GPT is rapidly becoming irrelevant. But now they're
893
00:38:06.800 --> 00:38:08.639
saddled with this debt and so if they want to
894
00:38:08.679 --> 00:38:11.119
go into a farm land, prices are the highest they've
895
00:38:11.119 --> 00:38:12.960
ever been. I mean here in Ohio you're looking at
896
00:38:13.000 --> 00:38:15.440
between eight and ten thousand dollars an acre, and for
897
00:38:15.480 --> 00:38:18.199
them to be able to afford a farm is many
898
00:38:18.239 --> 00:38:21.599
times because they already have this massive school debt, very challenging,
899
00:38:21.639 --> 00:38:25.639
so they're coming in burdened with in ornimate amounts of debt.
900
00:38:25.840 --> 00:38:28.400
The other thing is a lot of these older farmers
901
00:38:28.679 --> 00:38:30.800
are hanging on to the last minute because we've always
902
00:38:30.800 --> 00:38:32.880
done it this way, So not letting these younger people
903
00:38:32.960 --> 00:38:35.639
come out and try different things because they just don't
904
00:38:35.639 --> 00:38:37.760
think that's all farmings should be done. So they just
905
00:38:37.840 --> 00:38:39.239
need to get out of the way. I'm just going
906
00:38:39.280 --> 00:38:42.159
to say that bluntly because I've seen so many situations
907
00:38:42.159 --> 00:38:45.280
where the young people want to farm, but they can't
908
00:38:45.320 --> 00:38:47.840
because the older people just won't stop doing what they're doing,
909
00:38:47.920 --> 00:38:49.880
even though they're like, well, you can't make money on
910
00:38:49.880 --> 00:38:52.360
one hundred acres. It was like, you can make money
911
00:38:52.360 --> 00:38:54.719
out an eighth of an acre, and I make way
912
00:38:54.719 --> 00:38:57.960
more money in our eight acres here. Then so many
913
00:38:57.960 --> 00:39:01.400
farms do you know, and acres, So it's just really
914
00:39:01.400 --> 00:39:03.880
interesting to look at that. The other thing too is
915
00:39:03.880 --> 00:39:06.599
the education drain too, So we have this massive drain
916
00:39:06.639 --> 00:39:09.920
of people not being educated on how farm. And so
917
00:39:10.320 --> 00:39:14.639
you know, again, schools typically don't teach good organic farming principles.
918
00:39:14.679 --> 00:39:16.719
You know, you do have some like Cornell, and you
919
00:39:16.800 --> 00:39:19.440
have some of these bad schools, but they're still teaching
920
00:39:19.480 --> 00:39:23.280
the outdated conventional farming setups and systems. Because again those
921
00:39:23.480 --> 00:39:26.360
Ivy League or not even Ivy League, but just schools
922
00:39:26.360 --> 00:39:28.840
of thought are just so slow. It takes so long
923
00:39:28.880 --> 00:39:31.599
to rewrite the curriculum. So again, if you're going to school,
924
00:39:31.599 --> 00:39:33.800
I would say go get your two year bachelors and
925
00:39:33.920 --> 00:39:37.960
business and communications or something like that, and then go
926
00:39:38.039 --> 00:39:39.679
work on a couple of farms in turn on three
927
00:39:39.760 --> 00:39:41.760
or four five different farms because it's going to be
928
00:39:41.800 --> 00:39:44.480
way cheaper than a school degree in that and you'll
929
00:39:44.559 --> 00:39:47.360
learn way more do like four or five six different farms.
930
00:39:47.400 --> 00:39:49.559
The reason for that is you're going to well rounded
931
00:39:49.599 --> 00:39:52.280
aspect and you've probably learned by the fourth farm. The
932
00:39:52.320 --> 00:39:55.119
first farm you worked at was a either maybe didn't
933
00:39:55.119 --> 00:39:57.199
do something's right or you do different ways you could
934
00:39:57.280 --> 00:39:59.400
do it. So give you that well rounded education I
935
00:39:59.440 --> 00:40:01.960
think is super important that way, but it absolutely is
936
00:40:01.960 --> 00:40:03.639
a challenge. I think the other thing that we're looking
937
00:40:03.679 --> 00:40:07.800
at too, is that the consumer doesn't just want tomatoes
938
00:40:07.800 --> 00:40:12.559
and carrots and cucumbers anymore. The consumer wants salsa, they
939
00:40:12.639 --> 00:40:17.119
want a bestbol tray, and they want to pickles. So
940
00:40:17.199 --> 00:40:20.280
we need to stop producing raw commodities. For every farm
941
00:40:20.320 --> 00:40:22.760
needs to have that small processing aario to go to
942
00:40:22.760 --> 00:40:25.360
that further step because that's what our consumer wants and
943
00:40:25.400 --> 00:40:27.639
that's where you can get the most money. So we've
944
00:40:27.679 --> 00:40:29.559
realized that, you know, again, if we grow a hundred
945
00:40:29.559 --> 00:40:31.480
foot bat of cucumbers, you know you're gonna you know,
946
00:40:31.480 --> 00:40:33.280
your sell your bushels and you're gonna get a dollar
947
00:40:33.320 --> 00:40:35.920
a pound, But when you sell that pickles, you could
948
00:40:35.920 --> 00:40:38.599
grow a ten foot area of cucumbers and make the
949
00:40:38.639 --> 00:40:40.719
exact same money that you've made one hundred foot bed.
950
00:40:41.039 --> 00:40:43.760
So again, I know that's not the original view of
951
00:40:43.760 --> 00:40:46.519
what a farm is a farm is typically they say,
952
00:40:46.559 --> 00:40:48.719
you know, produce food, But I would count of that
953
00:40:48.800 --> 00:40:52.000
and say, let's not just grow a commodity. Let's grow
954
00:40:52.159 --> 00:40:55.119
food because food is what our customers eat, and where
955
00:40:55.119 --> 00:40:57.639
our customers eat is in corn and soy.
956
00:40:57.760 --> 00:41:00.639
Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. It
957
00:41:00.760 --> 00:41:02.400
has been a joy to have you.
958
00:41:02.440 --> 00:41:03.039
Thanks so much.
959
00:41:09.000 --> 00:41:14.159
The Good Foods podcast is for entertainment purposes only. The claims, comments, opinions,
960
00:41:14.239 --> 00:41:17.280
or information heard should never be used in place of
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your medical provider's advice or your doctor's direction. Thank you
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for listening, Follow us on social media and wherever you
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get your podcasts. Good Health through good Food, Good Foods,
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Grocery