00:00:05
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Collective Podcast from Newstalk ZB.
00:00:10
Speaker 2: By saying, Kieran McAnulty joins me now. Good afternoon.
00:00:14
Speaker 3: G'day, how are you getting on?
00:00:15
Speaker 1: All right.
00:00:16
Speaker 2: So who's the campaign launch actually for? Is it the public or is it more about firing up the party faithful?
00:00:23
Speaker 3: I think it's a bit of both, in all honesty. I think it's important for the party to have an event that demonstrates that the campaign is officially underway, even though in practice it's been underway for quite some time. It's a chance for us to highlight what our priorities are and what we're taking to this election, and that part is for the public.
00:00:43
Speaker 2: What do you want the public to take away from today?
00:00:47
Speaker 3: Well, Labour is... the only party that has a credible plan to address the cost of living, which is the most important thing for most New Zealand voters at this election. This election is about the cost of living and people will see anyone that's been following Chris Hipkin's speech today and the material within it and our policy priorities is that that is our main focus this campaign.
00:01:13
Speaker 2: What are you personally excited about?
00:01:16
Speaker 3: Well, I'm excited about winning. I think we've got a genuine shot, which is something, really, when you think about it, under MMP, there hasn't been a one-term government. There's never been a one-term national government. And I think we're in a genuine sniff of making that a reality this time around. And that excites me. And I know it would excite a lot of people, too, because we keep hearing that people are dissatisfied with this government, with the internal bickering and the distractions and the blame. And now, as we've seen this campaign from the National Party in particular... the dishonesty. And they've been pulled up on two occasions already by the Advertising Standards Authority and had to pull ads because they were dishonest. And I think that sends a message to everybody that this is not a government that can confidently campaign on its record. They have to try and scare people to get back in power.
00:02:02
Speaker 2: So the polls have been bouncing around, but both Labour and National, you're not exactly soaring in the polls. You're all around sort of 30%. Do you think there's a problem with some sort of apathy amongst voters for the larger parties, which gives the smaller ones a bit of an inside running?
00:02:20
Speaker 3: There is a bit of a trend at the moment that people are looking at the smaller parties, but it's not necessarily set in stone. We are still polling higher than what we achieved at the last election, and depending on what poll you look at, the left block, as it's called, or the current coalition, they're It changes pretty much poll to poll as to who can form a government on those numbers. But we have a plan in place. We have a timeline in place and we're sticking to that. You'll start to see advertising kicking in pretty shortly. We don't have the large scale corporate donations or the vested interests that are donating to our party. So we don't have the money to campaign before the election like the National Party does. So our ads will be kicking in soon, and it'll all add up to a cohesive plan, an alternative, credible plan to what this government's delivering, and then I suspect we'll start to see an uplift in the polls.
00:03:16
Speaker 2: Is it the economy, Stuart? I'm not calling you stupid, by the way, but you know the famous quote, it's the economy, Stuart. Yeah, I know, I know the quote, it's all good. Sorry, you know, we don't want to be taken out of context here, no.
00:03:28
Speaker 3: Well, I appreciate the clarification, but I wasn't worried, it's all good. Well, what we do know from our regular polling, and we've been doing this all term, is that for the last three years, the cost of living has been the number one issue. And if anything, that is growing. I've got a racing background, and so I use the analogy that cost of living is halfway down the home stretch before any other topic has gone around the final corner. The second one is the economy. But actually, if you dive into that a little bit more, a lot of the people that say economy actually mean the cost of living. And so that is how we are approaching this campaign. We made a determined decision right at the start that at every possible opportunity we will talk about the things that Kiwis care about the most, and that is why we talk about the cost of living.
00:04:16
Speaker 2: I guess arguably some of the challenges that New Zealanders have faced with the cost of living have been driven by things outside the government's control, such as what we see with the price of fuel and international uncertainty and a whole lot of things. I mean, would it have been any different under you guys when you have faced the same problems and criticisms?
00:04:33
Speaker 3: Well, there's two sides to the cost of living coin. There's prices and there's wages. And no, I don't think it would have been the same under Labour because we wouldn't have increased the minimum wage at a level that is deliberately below inflation, therefore people going backwards. Let's not forget that 70% of New Zealanders had a wage increase that was lower than the cost of living last year. That would not have happened under us. And so it's not just prices, it's people's capacity to pay.
00:05:01
Speaker 2: And why wouldn't it have happened under you if businesses are struggling?
00:05:04
Speaker 3: Well, first of all, pay equity wouldn't have been scrapped like it was under this government. So tens of thousands of workers, predominantly women, would not have had their pay increases scrapped. We would have increased the minimum wage at a level that would have actually kept up with price increases. We would have had fair pay agreements in place, which would have meant that workers would have had a fair... wage increase across an industry which would have been revolutionary for workers pay packets all of these things were scrapped under this government.
00:05:35
Speaker 2: So how much what's the balance do you think because when you're campaigning some of it's going to be here's what we're going to do but how much of it's going to be here's why the other lot has to.
00:05:44
Speaker 3: Go it can't be one or the other it's got to be a mixture of both and then you've got to set the scene you've got to remind people of the mistakes that this government has made the priorities that they've had that have not benefited the majority.
00:05:57
Speaker 2: Of New Zealanders.
00:05:58
Speaker 3: And then you've got to spell out the credible alternative that we're putting forward.
00:06:04
Speaker 2: So, look, I've got to ask you this. I saw Michael Wood was back campaigning for Labour in Mount Roskill. I mean, he was dumped as a minister. We know the story after failing to disclose certain things, 12 requests from the Cabinet. Don't you think it's a bit of a bad look to sort of have a, sorry to say it, but it looks like a bit of a retread in Mount Roskill?
00:06:25
Speaker 3: Well, I don't think that. And at the end of the day, Michael is working incredibly hard. He has made a clear decision. He has said to the electorate, the only way I'm going to get in is if you vote me in. He's not sought a list position. He's going hard. And he has an ambition of door knocking every single street in his electorate. And he's on track to doing that. So he's showing that he's committed. He's putting in the work. And from what I hear, that's being received really well.
00:06:52
Speaker 2: So what about the smaller parties? It's one thing to attack National. You want some of their vote, I guess. But a lot of the time, I mean, you've got the Opportunity Party. We don't know what they're doing. The Greens, you'd like to steal some of their votes. So how are you going to campaign so you can convince people who might be otherwise drawn to those minority coalition partners, potential ones?
00:07:14
Speaker 3: Excuse me, sorry for the cough. We're not really focused on the smaller parties that are on our side of the fence, if you like. I mean, we've made it clear which parties we are willing to work with and under what conditions. We've made it clear that we're not going to entertain their tax policies, but we're willing to work with them on other areas. Our focus is the government. We're not going to be able to portray a credible alternative to the government if we fall into the trap of doing what they're doing. Kiwis are pretty unhappy to see ACT, New Zealand First and National bickering amongst themselves and openly campaigning against each other whilst they are in government. It's hardly going to inspire people if we then turn around and do the same with our potential partners.
00:07:57
Speaker 2: Isn't it sort of a reality of coalition politics that obviously you've got your own different policies that you are going to argue about things? I mean, it's an easy sort of thing to say, oh, look, they're arguing, but you're not going to agree with the Greens on everything or the Opportunity Party, are you?
00:08:11
Speaker 3: Well, it's not just a case of not agreeing. They're actively undermining each other. I mean, even just in the last week, you've got David Seymour mentioning that with the National Party's surprise policy on supermarkets, and I say surprise because it goes against what this party stood for for a very long time. that there were backbench MPs in National seeking David Seymour's assurance that he would block it if they got into government. And those sorts of things, it's different to just disagreeing. That is actively undermining each other and the stability of the future government. I mean, at the end of the day, it comes down to the scene that was set by Christopher Luxon. He ran around the country saying that he was the master negotiator. And it appears the negotiation was as simple as, what do you want? Okay. And so there's conflicting commitments in the two coalition agreements that are in place. And whenever a minister from a different party has played up, Chris Luxon has not had the ability to deal with it. And what Chris Hipkins has said is that he will write into coalition agreements that he is the prime minister and a minister is responsible to him regardless of what party. If they step out of line, he has the right to be able to sanction them. He doesn't need to get the permission of their party leader. And I think that's really important.
00:09:24
Speaker 2: I know it goes against the vibe of electioneering, but just on that supermarket thing, do you think there's room for Labour and National actually to work together on things?
00:09:33
Speaker 3: Well, I always try and find where there is room to agree. New Zealand is better off when there is a collaborative approach. And I would point to the work that I've been doing alongside Chris Bishop in the infrastructure space. that has actually really been received quite well. People are sick and tired of the stopping and starting and the pausing and the cancellations. And you'll note that we're not going into this election promising any particular project. What we are promising is stability and continuity. And because we can expect companies to have the confidence to not only retain staff, but attract staff if they don't have confidence that projects that are underway are going to carry on. And so I think that is one example of where actually it is in New Zealand's interest rather than the political party's interest to do that. And I can point to, for example, the debate around intensification of housing in Auckland. The cheap and easy thing for us to do would have gone around all those affected communities and whipped up hysteria. But we did not do that because it was the right thing to do and people just want to know what they're dealing with and get on with it. So we stayed out of it. And I think that's an important contrast to some of the other issues that politics leads the way. Yeah.
00:10:45
Speaker 2: Okay. Hey, Kieran, thanks for your time this afternoon. Enjoy the rest of the day and the launch and we'll catch you again sometime.
00:10:50
Speaker 3: Yeah, appreciate it. Thank you very much.
00:10:53
Speaker 2: Yes, that was Kieran McAnulty. Now, as I mentioned, we spoke to him shortly before three o'clock, actually, just because their launch was kicking off at three and he wasn't going to be available.
00:11:02
Speaker 1: For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to Newstalk ZB Weekends from 3pm or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Collective Podcast from Newstalk ZB.
00:00:10
Speaker 2: By saying, Kieran McAnulty joins me now. Good afternoon.
00:00:14
Speaker 3: G'day, how are you getting on?
00:00:15
Speaker 1: All right.
00:00:16
Speaker 2: So who's the campaign launch actually for? Is it the public or is it more about firing up the party faithful?
00:00:23
Speaker 3: I think it's a bit of both, in all honesty. I think it's important for the party to have an event that demonstrates that the campaign is officially underway, even though in practice it's been underway for quite some time. It's a chance for us to highlight what our priorities are and what we're taking to this election, and that part is for the public.
00:00:43
Speaker 2: What do you want the public to take away from today?
00:00:47
Speaker 3: Well, Labour is... the only party that has a credible plan to address the cost of living, which is the most important thing for most New Zealand voters at this election. This election is about the cost of living and people will see anyone that's been following Chris Hipkin's speech today and the material within it and our policy priorities is that that is our main focus this campaign.
00:01:13
Speaker 2: What are you personally excited about?
00:01:16
Speaker 3: Well, I'm excited about winning. I think we've got a genuine shot, which is something, really, when you think about it, under MMP, there hasn't been a one-term government. There's never been a one-term national government. And I think we're in a genuine sniff of making that a reality this time around. And that excites me. And I know it would excite a lot of people, too, because we keep hearing that people are dissatisfied with this government, with the internal bickering and the distractions and the blame. And now, as we've seen this campaign from the National Party in particular... the dishonesty. And they've been pulled up on two occasions already by the Advertising Standards Authority and had to pull ads because they were dishonest. And I think that sends a message to everybody that this is not a government that can confidently campaign on its record. They have to try and scare people to get back in power.
00:02:02
Speaker 2: So the polls have been bouncing around, but both Labour and National, you're not exactly soaring in the polls. You're all around sort of 30%. Do you think there's a problem with some sort of apathy amongst voters for the larger parties, which gives the smaller ones a bit of an inside running?
00:02:20
Speaker 3: There is a bit of a trend at the moment that people are looking at the smaller parties, but it's not necessarily set in stone. We are still polling higher than what we achieved at the last election, and depending on what poll you look at, the left block, as it's called, or the current coalition, they're It changes pretty much poll to poll as to who can form a government on those numbers. But we have a plan in place. We have a timeline in place and we're sticking to that. You'll start to see advertising kicking in pretty shortly. We don't have the large scale corporate donations or the vested interests that are donating to our party. So we don't have the money to campaign before the election like the National Party does. So our ads will be kicking in soon, and it'll all add up to a cohesive plan, an alternative, credible plan to what this government's delivering, and then I suspect we'll start to see an uplift in the polls.
00:03:16
Speaker 2: Is it the economy, Stuart? I'm not calling you stupid, by the way, but you know the famous quote, it's the economy, Stuart. Yeah, I know, I know the quote, it's all good. Sorry, you know, we don't want to be taken out of context here, no.
00:03:28
Speaker 3: Well, I appreciate the clarification, but I wasn't worried, it's all good. Well, what we do know from our regular polling, and we've been doing this all term, is that for the last three years, the cost of living has been the number one issue. And if anything, that is growing. I've got a racing background, and so I use the analogy that cost of living is halfway down the home stretch before any other topic has gone around the final corner. The second one is the economy. But actually, if you dive into that a little bit more, a lot of the people that say economy actually mean the cost of living. And so that is how we are approaching this campaign. We made a determined decision right at the start that at every possible opportunity we will talk about the things that Kiwis care about the most, and that is why we talk about the cost of living.
00:04:16
Speaker 2: I guess arguably some of the challenges that New Zealanders have faced with the cost of living have been driven by things outside the government's control, such as what we see with the price of fuel and international uncertainty and a whole lot of things. I mean, would it have been any different under you guys when you have faced the same problems and criticisms?
00:04:33
Speaker 3: Well, there's two sides to the cost of living coin. There's prices and there's wages. And no, I don't think it would have been the same under Labour because we wouldn't have increased the minimum wage at a level that is deliberately below inflation, therefore people going backwards. Let's not forget that 70% of New Zealanders had a wage increase that was lower than the cost of living last year. That would not have happened under us. And so it's not just prices, it's people's capacity to pay.
00:05:01
Speaker 2: And why wouldn't it have happened under you if businesses are struggling?
00:05:04
Speaker 3: Well, first of all, pay equity wouldn't have been scrapped like it was under this government. So tens of thousands of workers, predominantly women, would not have had their pay increases scrapped. We would have increased the minimum wage at a level that would have actually kept up with price increases. We would have had fair pay agreements in place, which would have meant that workers would have had a fair... wage increase across an industry which would have been revolutionary for workers pay packets all of these things were scrapped under this government.
00:05:35
Speaker 2: So how much what's the balance do you think because when you're campaigning some of it's going to be here's what we're going to do but how much of it's going to be here's why the other lot has to.
00:05:44
Speaker 3: Go it can't be one or the other it's got to be a mixture of both and then you've got to set the scene you've got to remind people of the mistakes that this government has made the priorities that they've had that have not benefited the majority.
00:05:57
Speaker 2: Of New Zealanders.
00:05:58
Speaker 3: And then you've got to spell out the credible alternative that we're putting forward.
00:06:04
Speaker 2: So, look, I've got to ask you this. I saw Michael Wood was back campaigning for Labour in Mount Roskill. I mean, he was dumped as a minister. We know the story after failing to disclose certain things, 12 requests from the Cabinet. Don't you think it's a bit of a bad look to sort of have a, sorry to say it, but it looks like a bit of a retread in Mount Roskill?
00:06:25
Speaker 3: Well, I don't think that. And at the end of the day, Michael is working incredibly hard. He has made a clear decision. He has said to the electorate, the only way I'm going to get in is if you vote me in. He's not sought a list position. He's going hard. And he has an ambition of door knocking every single street in his electorate. And he's on track to doing that. So he's showing that he's committed. He's putting in the work. And from what I hear, that's being received really well.
00:06:52
Speaker 2: So what about the smaller parties? It's one thing to attack National. You want some of their vote, I guess. But a lot of the time, I mean, you've got the Opportunity Party. We don't know what they're doing. The Greens, you'd like to steal some of their votes. So how are you going to campaign so you can convince people who might be otherwise drawn to those minority coalition partners, potential ones?
00:07:14
Speaker 3: Excuse me, sorry for the cough. We're not really focused on the smaller parties that are on our side of the fence, if you like. I mean, we've made it clear which parties we are willing to work with and under what conditions. We've made it clear that we're not going to entertain their tax policies, but we're willing to work with them on other areas. Our focus is the government. We're not going to be able to portray a credible alternative to the government if we fall into the trap of doing what they're doing. Kiwis are pretty unhappy to see ACT, New Zealand First and National bickering amongst themselves and openly campaigning against each other whilst they are in government. It's hardly going to inspire people if we then turn around and do the same with our potential partners.
00:07:57
Speaker 2: Isn't it sort of a reality of coalition politics that obviously you've got your own different policies that you are going to argue about things? I mean, it's an easy sort of thing to say, oh, look, they're arguing, but you're not going to agree with the Greens on everything or the Opportunity Party, are you?
00:08:11
Speaker 3: Well, it's not just a case of not agreeing. They're actively undermining each other. I mean, even just in the last week, you've got David Seymour mentioning that with the National Party's surprise policy on supermarkets, and I say surprise because it goes against what this party stood for for a very long time. that there were backbench MPs in National seeking David Seymour's assurance that he would block it if they got into government. And those sorts of things, it's different to just disagreeing. That is actively undermining each other and the stability of the future government. I mean, at the end of the day, it comes down to the scene that was set by Christopher Luxon. He ran around the country saying that he was the master negotiator. And it appears the negotiation was as simple as, what do you want? Okay. And so there's conflicting commitments in the two coalition agreements that are in place. And whenever a minister from a different party has played up, Chris Luxon has not had the ability to deal with it. And what Chris Hipkins has said is that he will write into coalition agreements that he is the prime minister and a minister is responsible to him regardless of what party. If they step out of line, he has the right to be able to sanction them. He doesn't need to get the permission of their party leader. And I think that's really important.
00:09:24
Speaker 2: I know it goes against the vibe of electioneering, but just on that supermarket thing, do you think there's room for Labour and National actually to work together on things?
00:09:33
Speaker 3: Well, I always try and find where there is room to agree. New Zealand is better off when there is a collaborative approach. And I would point to the work that I've been doing alongside Chris Bishop in the infrastructure space. that has actually really been received quite well. People are sick and tired of the stopping and starting and the pausing and the cancellations. And you'll note that we're not going into this election promising any particular project. What we are promising is stability and continuity. And because we can expect companies to have the confidence to not only retain staff, but attract staff if they don't have confidence that projects that are underway are going to carry on. And so I think that is one example of where actually it is in New Zealand's interest rather than the political party's interest to do that. And I can point to, for example, the debate around intensification of housing in Auckland. The cheap and easy thing for us to do would have gone around all those affected communities and whipped up hysteria. But we did not do that because it was the right thing to do and people just want to know what they're dealing with and get on with it. So we stayed out of it. And I think that's an important contrast to some of the other issues that politics leads the way. Yeah.
00:10:45
Speaker 2: Okay. Hey, Kieran, thanks for your time this afternoon. Enjoy the rest of the day and the launch and we'll catch you again sometime.
00:10:50
Speaker 3: Yeah, appreciate it. Thank you very much.
00:10:53
Speaker 2: Yes, that was Kieran McAnulty. Now, as I mentioned, we spoke to him shortly before three o'clock, actually, just because their launch was kicking off at three and he wasn't going to be available.
00:11:02
Speaker 1: For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to Newstalk ZB Weekends from 3pm or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
