Abdul El-Sayed Says He’ll Win Big, but Michigan Is Dead Even

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>> Stephanie, you're a Michigander, Abdul Al Sayed, running against Mike Rogers in your

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former state.

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>> Mm-hmm.

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>> Must have you feel in a certain way being a Jewish gal watching us about to, what, potentially

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send a Muslim to the U.S. Senate?

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>> I'll tell you this one thing.

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Today or yesterday was October 7th.

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This is why you should get absolutely angry.

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He could not bring himself to even acknowledge the pain, the terrorism, the rape, the murders,

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cutting off of women's breasts, putting children in ovens and killing them in front of their

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families.

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>> What?

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>> Could not even muster.

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>> So I've condemned that.

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>> And he could not even muster.

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>> I've condemned that.

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>> I know he didn't.

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>> He did not.

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>> He did not.

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>> All right, let me tell you this.

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>> I just need to--

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>> No, no, no.

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>> He's interrupted me for about half of my time.

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>> I'm so sorry, but I'm not somebody who tries to make political theater out of other

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people's pains.

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>> Your whole campaign is political theater.

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>> And you turned it into political theater, I'm sorry, including putting on a white jacket

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and washing yourself.

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>> That's shameful.

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>> Gentlemen, gentlemen, we're going to take a break from this pleasant conversation.

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And when we come back, we're going to talk about--

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>> Tell you this one thing.

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>> From this pleasant conversation.

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>> From this pleasant conversation.

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>> You know, I don't know him personally, but again, we're from the exact same area,

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Bloomfield Hills, Michigan.

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And it's pretty much the melting pot.

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Like Jews and Middle Eastern people coexist.

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We all went to school together.

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We were all friends together.

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And I've had this happen like with some of my own Muslim friends, where they've turned

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into like pro-Palestine, all over Facebook, and it's like I can't talk to them anymore.

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And I assume that's basically what he's turned into too.

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So it's really sad that like we can't be kids anymore.

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We can't play together anymore, because we're just too different, and he's too hateful.

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>> He's got a really cocky attitude as well.

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He was asking about what he thought his chances were of winning.

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He says that he told CNN that every community he's met has heard him say, leading with them

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as a priority.

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And he says that he's going to blow Mike Rogers out of the water.

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It's going to win by double digit leads.

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>> And you know, I'm not so sure.

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It's like the thing about Jewish people is like, we don't get together and fight things

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that are super important.

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Instead, we get together and write Christmas songs.

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You know, it's like, we never do things that are really in our best interest.

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>> I don't know why.

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>> Frankly, Stephanie, I find that to be antisemitic as a white man who's not Jewish.

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>> Yeah.

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It's like, you know.

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>> They interviewed an unnamed black guy in Detroit, CNN did, and they said that the campaign

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is acting like they don't have to work for the black vote, that there was supposed to

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be some round table that they had with the black community of Detroit.

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That never happened.

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But that he did meet with Mike Rogers aides and that he texted Al Syed and got nothing

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back.

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>> I'll tell you this, having been a veteran now, 20 years of political campaigns run,

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you know, worked on every campaign from the lowest of the low to the highest of the high.

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I can tell you this is that the campaigns that typically lose are the campaigns that

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don't text people back or that don't contact people back.

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>> Oh, sure.

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I remember I used to run your Facebook page during your campaign.

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>> Yeah.

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>> And I was the one responding back to people.

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You've got to contact everybody back because you just never know who is reaching out.

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You could miss a huge opportunity.

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You have to have some kind of a process for onboarding.

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And campaigns that don't have some kind of a process, if they win despite having something

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like that, it's usually because they're so establishment.

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They've got like the Trump endorsement or they've got some kind of golden ticket that

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they don't have to worry about it.

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But if it is a competitive race, what I have noticed is that the campaigns that don't have

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some kind of apparatus to do outreach or to take on boarding of like volunteers and donations

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and things like that, they're usually being poorly managed.

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And that's a bad sign for them.

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So it's good to know that I'll say it is not doing that because I think that's a good sign

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for people who don't want him to win.

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Siggy's mom.

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>> I don't know.

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He's got that charisma though.

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You know, he's a young guy.

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Good looking.

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I'm sure a lot of women are like, oh, he's handsome, whatever.

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So he's got that on his side, unfortunately, and that has a lot to do with who wins.

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>> I guess.

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There are people who think Candace Owens is hot.

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I'm just like, I'm sorry, I'm racist.

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>> Yeah, it wouldn't surprise me if he wins because I even had a.

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>> Just kidding.

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>> I even had a Jewish friend of mine who lives in Michigan and she's going to have to decide

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if she's going to vote for him.

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And she posted on Instagram.

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She was just like, I can't find anywhere on his campaign website where it says he's pro

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Palestine.

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Can anyone help me find it?

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>> I guarantee you that mother is pro Palestine.

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He's as pro Palestine as Hassan that they're going to execute by firing squad in Texas.

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>> The thing about Jewish people, it's like, we have to learn.

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Come on, guys, stop having your head in the sand.

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You're always in denial, like, are you sure this person wants to kill me?

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Are you sure?

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>> Well, you're not you're not wrong about that, Stephanie.

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As a matter of fact, that's my next bullet point here.

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Lansing Mayor Andy Shore, who backed Haley Stevens and who is Jewish, told CNN he's not

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voting for Mike Rogers.

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But he says he's not going to back El Sayed until they talk.

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He says if he doesn't need me, he doesn't need me.

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So and that so that is the Democrat in the state that all Sayed says he's going to win

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by a landslide describing himself as optional.

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>> These social values are just so important to the Jewish people that they just can't

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see voting for a Republican.

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They need universal health care.

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They need welfare.

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They need all that.

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>> Yeah.

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Well, El Sayed is going to need every vote that he can get.

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The last poll showed him at 50% and Mike Rogers at 49, among likely voters.

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So it's a squeaker.

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Cook's political report had Michigan's open Senate seat in the toss-up column, along with

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Alaska, Iowa, Kansas, Maine, and Ohio.

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So they are not going to win this thing by double digits, for sure.

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So he said to CNN, I'm not the Democrat the Democrats want, but I am the Democrat the

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Democrats have.

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Womp womp.

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What an answer.

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What Democrats need, no, it's like it's not what you want.

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He's sort of acknowledging there that he's not really the perfect.

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He's not really the perfect candidate for the Democrats there.

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He reminds me of mom Donnie, though.

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Yeah.

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How is he really any different?

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He's got the same kind of look, the same kind of attitude.

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He went to University of Michigan, which is a that's a very good school in Michigan.

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It's one of the more expensive ones.

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It's not Ivy League, but you got to be rich to be able to afford it.

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I didn't go there for my master's program because it was literally double the price

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of Wayne State University, where I got my master's program.

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Best line of the debate last night was this.

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Condemn Hamas.

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He can't condemn the Muslim Brotherhood says his home is Egypt.

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This is all started.

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We are going forward.

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We can continue.

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We can continue this conversation in the second half of the show.

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He does go to home in Florida.

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I just took it off the market.

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I don't know why.

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He just took it off his home in the United Arab era.

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We're done.

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Stay in the Middle East.

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Congressman Rogers in the United States.

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Boom.

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Yeah, like all these fights about like who's rich or whatever.

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This is a side guy.

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He's rich.

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Oh, yeah.

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His family is rich.

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You do not live in the suburbs of Detroit and not have money.

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I tell you, you lived in the suburbs of Detroit.

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Yeah.

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I admit like my family was well off.

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Yes.

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Where's it at, girl?

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Let's see some of that.

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Well, now that I'm an adult, you know, I don't get to have all of that.

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Do they?

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Yeah.

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Damn girl.

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Can you use some of that?

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Unfortunately, man.

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You suppose, but I guess you did come with a bag of gold, didn't you?

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That's right.

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I did.

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Yeah.

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I was raised very well.

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Yeah.

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And CNN reported that I'll say it is talking less about APAC now and more about ground beef,

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gas and health care, and that he supports Medicare for all.

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Now the CNN is saying that APAC align spending against him has been about $33 million.

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But Mike Rogers has also come out and said gas prices are high and that we need to wind

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down the war in Iran.

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So voters who are angry about the pump aren't really caring about like what the Democrat

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felt historic about and all that.

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So it's a question for me.

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I think it's going to come down to how voters split on the economic question, the question

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of beef prices.

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Beef prices have been coming down, gas prices have started coming down a little bit.

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I haven't looked at diesel though, but that affects everything else.

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So you have to look at the climate of Michigan.

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Your most populated areas are pretty much Detroit, Grand Rapids.

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Those are very liberal areas.

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Detroit obviously has a huge amount of black people who are on welfare, on governmental

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programs.

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Those people are probably going to be getting to the polls.

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The rest of Michigan is pretty much just scattered ruralness.

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So I don't know in terms of population, I'm assuming there's more in those cities.

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And those people care about getting handouts.

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Well, the good news is that Michigan is supposed to be an easy Democrat state, but the fact

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that the race is actually competitive is a win to some extent for us right now.

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So a couple of weeks out from the midterms, the fact that Michigan might turn Republican

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is really good news for us.

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For the Greeks of antiquity, the pursuit of excellence was the very principle of man's

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existence.

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It was this trait that would push the West to create and build things that others could

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not.

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Marking us out from so many other cultures and civilizations, the fire of passion, strength,

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courage, pride, is the heart of great civilization.

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Today too much of the West has forgotten this quality and so we tore down our monuments,

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we condemned our own history and in too many places we taught our children to be ashamed

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of the countries they would inherit and as the West's confidence faltered, its adversaries

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and its rivals only grew more assertive.

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We will either choose to act now or lose the choice to act at all.

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Under President Trump, the United States has made its choice.

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We choose the unapologetic pursuit of national power.

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We choose to reach for new frontiers, to unleash our energy, to rebuild our factories, to return

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our astronauts to the moon and launch a new age of exploration.

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The story of the civilization is the greatest story ever known to man.

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And it began here, with the first men and women of the West.

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From then we can rediscover the virtues, the courage and the strength to confront the dangers

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that we face in our time.

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Damn, he's good man, I like him more and more.

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He's making war out to be so great and grand, but really it's not that wonderful.

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Are you sure?

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Yeah.

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Because it sure has built the West.

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The United States has been at war since our founding.

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I know, it's terrible.

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There has really never been, there was a very brief era of good feelings, there have been

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some relatively peaceful times.

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I wish I could have lived during that time.

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No, I don't.

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Those were terrible times to live.

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They were?

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No, this was like, what, 1800 or something like that?

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Right?

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But I want to know what peace feels like.

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Stephanie, let me explain something to you, okay?

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You know what peace feels like, because we've won wars.

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This is the, but from sea to shining sea, within the contiguous territories of the United

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States and Alaska and Hawaii, it is the most peaceful stretch of land, thousands and thousands

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of miles of peace within the territory of the United States.

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Because the bayonets are pointed out, because we have crushed the skulls of our enemies

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and heard the lamentation, because millions and millions and millions of Europeans and

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Africans and Asians will never be born, because we killed their fathers, within these 50 states

255
00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:16,980
is the great, glorious Pax Americana, the peace of America.

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No one fucks with us, and when they do, we invade and we topple their dictators, kill

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their leaders and their children's children's children's, by killing their fathers.

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And because the United States has been good at war, because we have won wars within our

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territories of the United States, with a little blip here and there, like on 9/11 and like

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the Black Tom attacks during World War I, the United States has a very peaceful issue.

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00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:52,640
You are living in the most peaceful and prosperous time of all of human history, Stephanie.

262
00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:53,640
Oh, it's true.

263
00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:55,000
Can't you appreciate that?

264
00:13:55,000 --> 00:14:08,160
Yeah, yeah, I'm very fortunate, and I definitely think I take that for granted, too much.

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00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:12,080
Justin over in the chat is going to join us in a minute, says, "I call this cathedral

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00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:18,040
culture, only a culture that trusts the future and values the past can make a cathedral."

267
00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:22,760
You know, it's just like when you're in school, when you're the overachiever, right?

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We're the overachievers of the world.

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We're building rockets, we're making all these inventions, but then the lazy kids, there's

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00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:38,000
so many of them, and they're just running free, doing their thing.

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Well just think about it, I mean, we're so wealthy and powerful that we can afford this

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00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:44,120
largesse.

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00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:49,560
I mean, that's kind of like one of the inherent weaknesses of capitalism, is that it allows

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people who are opposed to capitalism to be able to live, to be able to survive.

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If we lived under communism, then only the strong would survive in that situation or

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scenario.

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00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:09,880
So the inherent weakness of capitalism is that the free market provides such a horn

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00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:16,200
of plenty that even communists and socialists who are dedicated to its destruction can afford

279
00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:17,600
to eat in this country.

280
00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:18,880
So we need to cut off trade.

281
00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:23,680
No, no, we just need to cut off communists, just cut off the welfare.

282
00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:26,560
Here's some more Rubio for you.

283
00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:27,560
Where is he?

284
00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:28,560
Where is this?

285
00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:29,560
Where do you think that is?

286
00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:30,560
Mount Sinai?

287
00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:31,560
What is that?

288
00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:32,560
I don't know.

289
00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:35,160
Oh, Stephanie, you know where that is.

290
00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:37,320
That's the Parthenon, Stephanie.

291
00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:52,800
Oh, I've never been there.

292
00:15:52,800 --> 00:16:03,160
I've never been there.

293
00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:25,160
I've never been there.

294
00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:44,400
The interesting thing about the Greeks, too, is that they had a somewhat libertarian view

295
00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:50,760
when it came to the military, because they had these things called hoplite farmers.

296
00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:56,040
So if you were a hoplite, you were a farmer, you were kind of like, it's a citizen soldier

297
00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:57,040
essentially.

298
00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:02,640
A hoplite farmer of ancient Greece was someone who owned their lands, owned their property,

299
00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:05,100
paid no taxes.

300
00:17:05,100 --> 00:17:09,120
But the reason that they didn't pay taxes is because they had no military.

301
00:17:09,120 --> 00:17:12,440
They were the military, the hoplite farmers.

302
00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:13,960
So they're like militia.

303
00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:15,720
To some extent, right?

304
00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:20,060
Every citizen, every farmer, every hoplite must be trained.

305
00:17:20,060 --> 00:17:22,960
They had their shield over their fireplace.

306
00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:28,320
And when it was necessary, they would all go out and do their phalanx and go to war.

307
00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:30,000
Somebody checked my history on that one, I'm pretty sure.

308
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:31,000
Oh, that's interesting.

309
00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:32,760
I didn't learn about that one in school.

310
00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:34,000
Yeah, the hoplite farmer.

311
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:35,000
You probably did.

312
00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:36,000
You just forgot.

313
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:37,000
I just forgot, clearly.

314
00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:38,000
Hoplite farmer system.

315
00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:39,520
I don't even know where he's standing.

316
00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:41,040
You had to tell me that.

317
00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:43,040
Yes, here we go.

318
00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:45,560
Hoplites were primarily free citizens.

319
00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:47,400
They were the citizen soldier ideal.

320
00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:50,040
This is a very libertarian concept.

321
00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:54,040
They were the citizen soldiers of the ancient Greek city states who were armed with spears

322
00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:55,920
and shields.

323
00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:57,960
Hoplite soldiers used the phalanx.

324
00:17:57,960 --> 00:17:58,960
Thank you, Austin.

325
00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:01,400
Remember your Mr. Simon's history class.

326
00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:05,120
The formation discouraged the soldiers from acting alone, for this would compromise the

327
00:18:05,120 --> 00:18:07,880
formation and minimize its strengths.

328
00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:13,160
Hoplites were primarily free citizens, property farmers and artisans who were able to afford

329
00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:16,640
linen or bronze armor suit and weapons.

330
00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:21,720
Some states maintain a small elite professional unit because they were picked, called like

331
00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:27,880
the chosen and those existed in Athens, Sparta, Argos, Thebes and Syracuse among other places.

332
00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:33,800
But hoplite soldiers made up the bulk of the ancient Greek armies.

333
00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:39,720
And when I typed control F on the Wikipedia page for the word tax, you cannot find the

334
00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:42,040
word tax on that page.

335
00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:43,040
Nice.

336
00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:46,480
Yeah, but you'd have to fight.

337
00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:49,120
That's the thing is that I don't know if us Americans want that.

338
00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:50,120
We'll see.

339
00:18:50,120 --> 00:18:54,360
The thing is, is that libertarians, like they love to talk about no taxes, but they don't

340
00:18:54,360 --> 00:18:55,360
want to fight.

341
00:18:55,360 --> 00:18:56,360
There you go.

342
00:18:56,360 --> 00:18:58,320
They're so, they're so puny, right?

343
00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:02,880
So the thing is, is that in order to have Liberty, you have to have the responsibility.

344
00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:04,560
Oh yeah.

345
00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:05,800
And they talk such a big game.

346
00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:10,280
They're like, I'm going to take my bayonet and my grenade and I'm going to go, you know,

347
00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:11,280
kill him.

348
00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:12,280
Whatever.

349
00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:13,280
No, you're not.

350
00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:14,280
No, they're not.

351
00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:15,280
You're scared.

352
00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:17,400
And that's okay because you know what?

353
00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:21,640
We've created a system where a little scared libertarians are allowed to be afraid and allowed

354
00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:26,160
to not have to serve in the military, but they have to pay taxes.

355
00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:28,600
But taxation is theft.

356
00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:33,080
It is, but two things can be true at once.

357
00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:37,040
Taxation can be theft and it can also be a necessary evil.

358
00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:38,040
Right.

359
00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:42,200
So the question is, is how do you keep that evil to the absolute minimum necessary in order

360
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:43,760
to sustain civilization?

361
00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:48,920
So in other words, our taxes, the price we pay to live in a civilized society.

362
00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:49,920
Yes.

363
00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:57,680
No, I'm sorry, no offense, but it sounds like some fucking comedy gobbledygook.

364
00:19:57,680 --> 00:19:58,680
Just kidding.

365
00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:03,440
So anyway, I'm fine with paying for the fire department and the police department and I

366
00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:05,480
can't do those jobs myself.

367
00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:06,480
Not me.

368
00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:10,360
I'd rather be a volunteer firefighter and not pay taxes, but still they always say it for

369
00:20:10,360 --> 00:20:15,240
the roads and the firefighters and they use it to like trans your kids and make them gay.

370
00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:16,240
Good morning.

371
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:17,240
Rise and freedom.

372
00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:18,240
Let's reset.

373
00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:22,320
Well, I will say I was just at our HOA meeting just the other day and we were talking about

374
00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:27,480
the roads and how much it actually costs to fix them and the bids that we got for our

375
00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:33,920
stretch of road for literally one, two, three, four, five, four, six houses was half a million

376
00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:37,080
dollars, half a million dollars.

377
00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:43,840
And we, we've just crossed like $10,000 in terms of our budget, you know, for the HOA.

378
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:45,280
We're never going to get there.

379
00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:51,400
So it's like us, us little private road people, we can't compete with the government road

380
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:52,400
people.

381
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:53,400
AP lives in our HOA.

382
00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:54,400
No way.

383
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:55,860
Well, I know it's not going to be forever.

384
00:20:55,860 --> 00:20:56,860
It's not.

385
00:20:56,860 --> 00:20:57,860
Yeah.

386
00:20:57,860 --> 00:20:58,860
It wasn't our choosing.

387
00:20:58,860 --> 00:21:02,640
It was, yeah, it was 2020 and we had to get that interest rate locked in while the getting

388
00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:03,640
was good.

389
00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:10,280
We all well know, but nobody, nobody follows the rules of the HOA.

390
00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:11,280
We'll just say that.

391
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:12,280
Yeah.

392
00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:13,280
That's true.

393
00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:14,280
But we do.

394
00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:15,280
We follow them to the letter.

395
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:17,280
Justin Peterson joining us live in the Wake Up America show.

396
00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:19,000
There's my sweet Stephanie.

397
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:23,280
She's pregnant with my child and it will be a masculine child.

398
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:26,480
Justin, you were talking to us a little bit about religion.

399
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:30,840
You were telling someone about how you viewed like wokeism as a religion.

400
00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:32,160
Can you kind of expand on that for us?

401
00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:33,160
No, no.

402
00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:35,680
Like, you know, one of the I'm going to be confirmed like, hi, everybody.

403
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:39,640
I'm going to get confirmed on November 22nd, which is my grandma's birthday.

404
00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:44,080
But the thing that I keep reminding myself of is like, I'm going to be confirmed in the

405
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:45,080
Episcopal Church.

406
00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:47,960
But I am personally saying I'm not really I'm not an Episcopalian.

407
00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:52,160
I kind of identify myself as an Anglo Catholic.

408
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:57,240
But like the Episcopal Church is because I've been in it for a while and I've just been like,

409
00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:00,840
you know, taking it in and listening to what people have to say and like just like, you

410
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:04,720
know, observing and, you know, listening and taking and, you know, everything.

411
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:08,440
And there's a real white tent in terms of like the theology of the Episcopal Church.

412
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:12,560
Like if it's, you know, if you believe certain theological things, like they consider themselves

413
00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:14,800
to be a broad tent, right?

414
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:20,040
And there's all of this open discussion about, you know, theological points and like, well,

415
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:21,040
that about this or the other.

416
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:26,280
But where you cannot diverge, where you cannot diverge is that you must align yourself almost

417
00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:29,800
exclusively with all political opinions of the left.

418
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:36,080
Like there's no room in the Episcopal Church for like any any divestment from the status

419
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:38,600
orthodox views of the church.

420
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:44,640
And I think that personally is very ironic because you have all this theological wiggle

421
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:47,560
room, but you don't have any social justice wiggle room.

422
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:51,760
So I mean, it doesn't take a rocket science scientist to look at that situation and just

423
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:56,040
be like, maybe the social justice is the religion, right?

424
00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:59,680
Maybe the thing you can't, you know, because it's like usually religions would say, here's

425
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:00,840
what you have to believe, right?

426
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:03,960
They would give you a creed or they would give you things to say, this is what we believe.

427
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:07,360
Well, when you loosen that theological frame and you're like, well, you can believe this,

428
00:23:07,360 --> 00:23:10,360
you can believe that, or I mean, there are bishops in the Episcopal Church that don't

429
00:23:10,360 --> 00:23:11,720
even believe in the resurrection of Jesus.

430
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:13,120
I mean, that's a real thing.

431
00:23:13,120 --> 00:23:16,520
Like I'm like, how do you operate in a system where you can't, where you're not believing

432
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:22,320
that, but you can't not have certain views about gay marriage or like transgenderism or

433
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:30,640
social justice stuff, like you have to have the orthodox leftist opinions of, you know,

434
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:31,640
of the group.

435
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:36,000
And I'm like, but do you not see that you've created an orthodoxy that is centered on social

436
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,480
justice and not on Christianity?

437
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:44,080
Also like evangelism, like Austin and I grew up in evangelistic Christianity, which was,

438
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:45,080
you know, the good news.

439
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:46,080
You share the good news.

440
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:51,000
The thing is this, if you don't believe in the tenets of your faith, there's no need for

441
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:54,560
evangelism because there's no need to say anything about it, right?

442
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:56,540
Because you already, you're like, well, I don't really believe it.

443
00:23:56,540 --> 00:23:58,200
So like, I'm not going to tell anybody about it.

444
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:04,320
But like, if you really honestly in your heart believe your message, like Austin's an evangelist

445
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:05,320
for freedom, right?

446
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:09,320
And for liberty, like you have to believe in those things in order to evangelize them,

447
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:10,320
right?

448
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,040
And if you are like, well, I don't really know, I don't really want to be, you know,

449
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:14,040
bother anybody.

450
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:17,880
I'm like, somebody else is going to bother you and it's going to be the communist, it's

451
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:21,520
going to be the social justice warrior who's going to be like, come and believe what I

452
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:22,520
say.

453
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:23,520
You know?

454
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:27,240
And I saw somebody in your commentary say the Missouri Synod for Lutheranism, we do

455
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:28,480
have that here in Boston.

456
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:30,760
And I did sort of look at them across the bar yesterday.

457
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:34,320
I lifted my vodka and I was like, I see you over there and I'm really interested in what

458
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:35,760
you have to offer.

459
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:37,380
Maybe we should talk sometime.

460
00:24:37,380 --> 00:24:41,560
So what is the, what is the sign out of Lutherism?

461
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:45,720
I think it's like a more, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's more of a conservative

462
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,200
strain of Lutheranism.

463
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:50,600
I'm very, I'm very theologically conservative.

464
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:52,400
I can't not be a conservative.

465
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:53,400
It's a weird thing.

466
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:54,400
What does that mean?

467
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:59,800
Well, like I do believe in like historical Christianity as it was developed from the,

468
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:04,040
you know, for the first hundred thousand, you know, for the first thousand or so years.

469
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:08,240
I don't believe that God was a woman and I don't believe that, you know, Jesus, you know,

470
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,080
any of these weird things about Jesus, I'm like, I'm pretty standard and orthodox when

471
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:14,000
it comes to things, but it's a weird space to be in because you're like, but you're gay.

472
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,560
And I'm like, I know it doesn't make any sense.

473
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,240
And I'm even in the midst of it going, this is really weird.

474
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,840
I don't know how to work in looking from the outside.

475
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:26,520
It is also very weird to observe it because it does appear to be a contradiction.

476
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:28,560
Yeah, it is a contradiction and I live in it.

477
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:32,160
I'm like, well, I have to live in the paradoxes, but it's a weird place to be in to come in

478
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:36,320
and be like, get this woke shit out of my church.

479
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:37,320
Okay.

480
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,840
Get this, get out of my flag.

481
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,000
I don't want my flag in this church.

482
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:47,160
Get these motherfucking flags out of this motherfucking church.

483
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:52,520
So Justin, I mean, are you swearing off men now for the rest of your life?

484
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:56,760
No, because you can't, I mean, it is, it's like, can I be a, can I be a blonde?

485
00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:03,400
No, I'm always going to be gay, but it's learning how to walk, you know, cause there's gay culture.

486
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,400
And this is the thing I was telling my priest this week.

487
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:09,120
I'm like, this idea of gay culture, oh, you know, it's toxic, right?

488
00:26:09,120 --> 00:26:12,280
I mean, like, you know, you think the Cornell seven is in a situation.

489
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:16,480
Wait until you hear about the Cambridge 50 when you go to an orgy and you're like, all

490
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:17,600
right, man.

491
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:21,400
Like there's this gay culture that's very superficial.

492
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:25,440
That's very much about, you know, treating other people like objects, you know, it's

493
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:26,600
not mentally healthy.

494
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:30,280
It's not because you're treating people badly and I'm, and I've always felt like that's

495
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:31,280
not right.

496
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:36,880
But we have to devote, we have to divest ourselves of this idea that sexuality is tied to politics

497
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:42,240
in terms of like, well, if you are this sexuality, you must vote left or, you know, we have to

498
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:47,120
stop that because sexuality is, I believe in a mutable characteristic, it has nothing

499
00:26:47,120 --> 00:26:48,120
to do with your politics.

500
00:26:48,120 --> 00:26:50,040
It has nothing to do with who you vote for.

501
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:54,320
And the fact that, you know, this, the gay, you know, LGBT community has been sort of

502
00:26:54,320 --> 00:27:00,880
colonized by this leftist ideology, ideological view, you know, it has turned them into prisoners,

503
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:01,880
right?

504
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:02,880
It's made gay people into prisoners.

505
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:04,640
So it's like, well, now you have to vote this way.

506
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,760
And I know the black community feels the same way about the Democrats, you know, it's like,

507
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:09,360
well, you have to vote this way because we're black.

508
00:27:09,360 --> 00:27:11,280
I'm like, it's the same exact logic.

509
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:18,360
Well, my question is, do you still feel comfortable being confirmed, given that you don't agree

510
00:27:18,360 --> 00:27:22,600
with a lot of these values that the church has?

511
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:27,080
That's what I keep telling myself is like, I'm not confirming to the Episcopal Church.

512
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:30,200
I'm not making a pledge to the Episcopal Church in any way, shape or form.

513
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:31,200
Oh, you're not?

514
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:32,200
That's not what a confirmation is.

515
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:33,200
No, that's not.

516
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,520
No, it's basically a realignment to say I want to live in a Christian life.

517
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,760
I want to live a Christian life, you know.

518
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,560
Pursue Christianity as a goal of my life.

519
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:47,120
But it's not to say I am forever loyal to this church.

520
00:27:47,120 --> 00:27:50,120
Everything this church says I'm going to sign on to, I'm going to believe everything this

521
00:27:50,120 --> 00:27:51,720
church says.

522
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:52,720
It's not.

523
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:53,720
And if it was that, Stephanie, I would not do it.

524
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:54,720
Okay.

525
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:55,720
Yeah.

526
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:56,720
I would not do it.

527
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:57,720
I didn't.

528
00:27:57,720 --> 00:27:58,720
I don't know what a confirmation really means.

529
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,420
I know every church probably does it differently.

530
00:28:01,420 --> 00:28:02,420
Did you?

531
00:28:02,420 --> 00:28:04,080
You got confirmed in your church?

532
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:05,080
No.

533
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,520
I mean, when you're baptized, that's like your confirmation to some extent.

534
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:12,240
But you're confirming into the Baptist religion, right?

535
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:13,880
In particular, when you're doing it.

536
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:15,800
You're basically becoming a member of the church.

537
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:17,840
That's how the Baptists view it.

538
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:18,840
Okay.

539
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:22,160
Latrell in the chat says being black means voting dem is a mentality he's been fighting

540
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:23,160
his whole life.

541
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:24,160
Yeah.

542
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:25,160
Oh, yeah.

543
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:26,160
I guess.

544
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:27,160
It's a real thing.

545
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:31,800
So what we were raised with the Baptist tradition, the view of homosexuality is that it is a

546
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:36,240
mortal sin and that it is not an inherent trait.

547
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,720
That it is a choice, a lifestyle choice.

548
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:47,480
And so therefore you can choose not to be gay and you should choose not to be gay because

549
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:53,200
it is a life of sin is what will separate you from God in eternity.

550
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:59,880
So Justin, does the Episcopalian tradition mirror that belief or not?

551
00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:00,880
In terms of?

552
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:05,480
The viewing of homosexuality as a sin and as a choice.

553
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,840
No, because even the Catholic Church, the Romans don't believe that homosexuality is

554
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:09,840
a sin.

555
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,300
They do not believe that it is a sin to be gay.

556
00:29:12,300 --> 00:29:17,200
The most staunchly conservative church in the world does not say, oh, it's a sin to

557
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:18,200
be gay.

558
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:22,840
So it's a sin to not be gay, but a sin to act on it?

559
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:23,840
Yes.

560
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:24,840
Yes.

561
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:25,840
That's how they...

562
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,880
So then are you swearing off acting on your proclivities?

563
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:30,480
I'm not swearing that off.

564
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:31,480
No.

565
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:32,480
No.

566
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:33,480
I'm not swearing that off.

567
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:34,480
So you still will actively sin?

568
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:35,480
Because here's the thing.

569
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:36,480
I'm just curious.

570
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:38,080
I'm not accusing you, by the way.

571
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:46,480
I also acknowledge that human understanding of things changes over time.

572
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:50,920
For example, slavery was ubiquitous in the world for thousands of years.

573
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:53,440
The Bible doesn't really come out and say, hey, you know what?

574
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:54,640
You shouldn't really own slaves.

575
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:56,140
You should not have slaves.

576
00:29:56,140 --> 00:29:59,440
You should let those people go and let them be free.

577
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,520
The Bible even gives you directions on how to treat your slaves.

578
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,440
So it wasn't coming out and saying, oh, you should get rid of slavery.

579
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:09,440
But we solved slavery in the 1800s, and it was the white people who did it, right?

580
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:11,680
So we were the ones who came along and said, you know what?

581
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:13,040
Maybe we shouldn't do this.

582
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:16,400
And there were factions of the church, and that's how you got the Southern Baptist Church,

583
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:20,320
by the way, Austin, was that those were the defenders of slavery.

584
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:22,400
Those were the ones that were like, oh no, we want to keep slavery.

585
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,760
We think God has mandated slaves, and it's always going to be this way, so we're going

586
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:26,760
to do it this way.

587
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:28,960
So the Bible is not the infallible word of God to...

588
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:29,960
No, it is not.

589
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:33,280
And that is one thing I think the Bible is the resource.

590
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:36,400
But I'm not a fundamentalist, because I don't worship the Bible.

591
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:38,000
The Bible is not my God.

592
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,760
Jesus is God, not the Bible.

593
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:44,680
And that's the inversion that I see sometimes in very, very arch conservative Christianity.

594
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:48,160
They take the Bible and turn the Bible into an idol, and they make the Bible into like,

595
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:50,160
this is the holy thing, and we must worship the Bible.

596
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:54,820
And I'm like, well, even Jesus was saying to the people in the Pharisees, you guys have

597
00:30:54,820 --> 00:30:58,920
gotten so much into the legalism of everything, and you've gone so far into like every dot

598
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:02,360
and tittle of the Old Testament, but you're not living into the world that you're in,

599
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,040
and you're not seeing the suffering around you.

600
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:07,000
And so your religious beliefs, they're not changing your heart, they're not changing

601
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:08,760
how you treat people in the real world.

602
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,280
So you have become idolaters of scripture.

603
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:12,280
You become...

604
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,000
I mean, that's what all these religious leaders were doing with Jesus.

605
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:18,680
They were all going, but the law says, and the law says, and the law says, and Jesus

606
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:20,800
was like, yeah, no, no.

607
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:21,800
You've missed the point.

608
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:23,760
You've missed the entire point of everything.

609
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:25,840
So my thing is, I don't follow the Bible.

610
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:27,120
I mean, I guess the Bible is...

611
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:28,880
Jewish lawyers love the law, man.

612
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:30,880
They love the law.

613
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:35,920
I would say Jewish people follow the Old Testament pretty closely.

614
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:37,920
Depends on how orthodox they are.

615
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:38,920
Not really.

616
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:39,920
Not really.

617
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:40,920
Orthodox, yeah, for sure.

618
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:41,920
Orthodox for sure tries to follow it.

619
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,100
Well, they don't stone a rebellious son to death.

620
00:31:44,100 --> 00:31:45,100
They don't follow.

621
00:31:45,100 --> 00:31:46,100
They don't follow a lot of the old...

622
00:31:46,100 --> 00:31:50,080
Yeah, I'll have to ask why they don't do that anymore, what made them not do that.

623
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:54,880
Well, unless I don't know, they don't send their women out of town when they're on their

624
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:59,240
period either, which is another thing that's made them do.

625
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:04,760
In the Orthodox, you cannot touch, so the wife cannot touch her husband directly.

626
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,560
So like, let's say you have some keys.

627
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:10,800
You cannot hand your husband the keys while you're on your period.

628
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:16,000
You have to set them down somewhere, and then the husband picks them up, and you can't sleep

629
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:17,000
in the same bed.

630
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:22,080
So a lot of times they have two single beds that they push together when they can be together,

631
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:24,440
and then they push them apart when they can't be together.

632
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:28,480
Yeah, oh yeah, it still happens very much now, yeah.

633
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:33,580
So like, yeah, coming back to your conversation, I feel like, first of all, the word homosexual

634
00:32:33,580 --> 00:32:38,400
wasn't even coined until 1868 by a guy named Carl Kurtbennie.

635
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,200
There was, in the ancient world, we understand...

636
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:42,840
Men shall lie with a man.

637
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,860
Yeah, we understand it today in a much different way than they did back then.

638
00:32:45,860 --> 00:32:50,400
I mean, back then, it was never same status people doing sexual acts together.

639
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:51,880
It was always an imbalance in power.

640
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,760
It was always someone older, having sex with someone younger.

641
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,840
It was always mostly pederasty, right?

642
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,000
And yeah, I think we can all agree that that's not great.

643
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:01,000
I think, hopefully.

644
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:04,040
You know, who knows anymore in our society we live in?

645
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,240
Because there's nothing about gay people in the Bible, right?

646
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:07,240
Yes, there is.

647
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:08,240
Oh, there is.

648
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:09,240
Jesus doesn't say anything about it.

649
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:10,240
Oh, there is.

650
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:11,240
It's outlawed.

651
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:12,240
It is.

652
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:13,240
It's outlawed, yeah.

653
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:14,240
It is.

654
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:15,240
It's Leviticus.

655
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:16,240
I don't know.

656
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:17,240
You have to say, what does outlawed mean?

657
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:18,240
Well, it's against...

658
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:19,240
So there's an actual Bible verse that says, like, no man should...

659
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:20,400
What does the Bible say about homosexuality?

660
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:22,880
Because I always thought it wasn't in there.

661
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:23,880
It is in there.

662
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:29,880
The Bible contains a small number of passages that explicitly address same-sex marriage.

663
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:33,320
You shall not lie with a man as you lay with a woman.

664
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:35,040
It is an abomination.

665
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:41,680
Leviticus 1822, Leviticus 2013, prescribes severe penalties for same-sex intercourse

666
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:43,240
between men.

667
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:50,400
Romans 126, 27 describes same-sex relations as contrary to nature, 1 Corinthians and 1

668
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:57,080
Timothy includes terms like "arsinocoatai", often translated as men who practice homosexuality,

669
00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:01,440
in lists of behaviors that bar people from the kingdom of God.

670
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,840
So yeah, it definitely does help.

671
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:08,880
I mean, just as, like, you know, if anybody wanted to be straight, it was me.

672
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:09,880
It's not going to happen.

673
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:10,880
It's not going to happen.

674
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:11,880
You know?

675
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:12,880
And it's like...

676
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:16,120
But couldn't you just swear off the activity itself, Justin?

677
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:17,760
Well, sure you can do that.

678
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:21,280
I mean, but, you know, it's like, but if you're an alcoholic and you stop drinking, you're

679
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:22,280
still an alcoholic.

680
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:23,280
You know?

681
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:24,280
It isn't...

682
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:25,280
Sure.

683
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:26,280
You don't stop being an alcoholic.

684
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:27,280
You're always an alcoholic.

685
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:29,040
So, it's like the behavior.

686
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:30,040
What is the behavior?

687
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:32,120
The thing is, like, what would you swear off?

688
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:33,120
Would you swear off hookups?

689
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:34,280
I mean, probably.

690
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:35,880
That's not a bad idea.

691
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:36,880
You know?

692
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:41,440
Like, random strangers, having sex with random strangers is probably not a great idea, right?

693
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:43,040
The Bible doesn't say anything about that.

694
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:45,000
There's no one-night stands in the Bible.

695
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:46,000
Right.

696
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:47,000
Exactly.

697
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:48,000
Well, yeah.

698
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:52,280
And it's, you know, you have to take the Bible, you know, seriously, but, like, I don't treat

699
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:53,720
the Bible literally.

700
00:34:53,720 --> 00:34:56,200
I don't do Bible literalism.

701
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:57,200
That's fundamentalism.

702
00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:01,160
And fundamentalism is actually a very recent historical event in Christianity.

703
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:02,160
Some people...

704
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:03,160
It didn't start until the 1800s.

705
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:07,960
Some people actually don't know that Stephanie was married when I met her, and I sent her

706
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:11,500
husband out to fight in the war, and I told everybody to pull back so that he would be

707
00:35:11,500 --> 00:35:12,500
killed.

708
00:35:12,500 --> 00:35:14,720
He was a hittite named Uriah.

709
00:35:14,720 --> 00:35:16,360
Oh, my goodness.

710
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:18,000
Am I Jezebel?

711
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:19,240
You're Bathsheba.

712
00:35:19,240 --> 00:35:20,240
In this scenario.

713
00:35:20,240 --> 00:35:23,920
Boy, that is really difficult.

714
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:24,920
That is...

715
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:30,120
I mean, obviously, Justin, I, you know, not being religious, you know, I look at that as

716
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:32,520
something of, like, the Gordian knot to some extent.

717
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:35,320
It does seem a little tangled.

718
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:41,440
My thing is that it has to do with the fact that culturally, I am in defense of the West.

719
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:47,280
I am coming out in defense of our accumulated values, and those values come, as Marco Rubio

720
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:50,320
said wisely in your intro, your first hour.

721
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:53,160
They come from Greece, and they also come from Christianity.

722
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:57,560
And I think if you want to save your civilization, you have to save the structures that hold up

723
00:35:57,560 --> 00:35:59,080
that civilization.

724
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:06,440
And so, even if I didn't believe Christianity as a mystical, supernatural experience, fine.

725
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:11,360
We need to have Christianity in our society, because even the atheists, like David Silverman,

726
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:16,240
who was the head of president of the Atheists' Association, realizes that if there's not

727
00:36:16,240 --> 00:36:19,200
a Christian bulwark against Islam, we're all fucked.

728
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:20,200
Yeah, no, I agree.

729
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:23,840
We need a Christian society to save us.

730
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:25,120
I'm like Richard Dawkins.

731
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:27,360
I'm culturally Christian.

732
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:30,080
But not even another religion could fight it?

733
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:31,080
No, I don't think so.

734
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:34,120
Could like Judaism or Buddhism or anything?

735
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:35,120
No.

736
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:39,920
The best Jewish tradition of fighting Islam are the Israelis, and they're not very popular

737
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:40,920
around the world.

738
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:41,920
But Christians...

739
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:46,960
If you want to have the society that we love, and we have built over centuries, there must

740
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:54,000
be two equal strands of the Greek ideals, as well as Christian ethics and Christian values.

741
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:57,920
Because Christians aren't walking into marketplaces and blowing themselves up.

742
00:36:57,920 --> 00:36:58,920
Agreed.

743
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:00,320
Christians aren't hijacking airplanes.

744
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:01,320
Agreed.

745
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:02,320
That's not happening.

746
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:03,320
Agreed.

747
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:07,000
But the problem with that is that, in my view, it's a little bit more cynical, perhaps, than

748
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:12,160
your view, because I'm sort of like using them as human shields to protect me from the

749
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:16,400
dangers of radical Islam, right?

750
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:19,760
But I'm not like a religious Christian.

751
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,920
I'm a cultural Christian, but not a religious Christian.

752
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:33,000
And so, unfortunately for myself, I don't get to be righteous and bathe myself and clothe

753
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:38,360
myself in the cloak of righteousness of Christianity.

754
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:43,800
But I do think Christianity is important, but I also think in many ways it's deeply wrong.

755
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:45,000
It's deeply wrong.

756
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:51,640
And I actually think that Friedrich Nietzsche was correct in many of his criticisms of Christianity,

757
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:58,120
because I do think that when you see the woke-ism of modern Christianity, that is an inherent

758
00:37:58,120 --> 00:37:59,120
defect.

759
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:03,360
It is a weakness of Christianity that it allows itself to be taken over by the woke-ness.

760
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:05,080
I would also say this.

761
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:11,640
You have to choose your poison, because I was an atheist for 20 years.

762
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:14,040
We thought it would make everyone more rational.

763
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:17,280
If we just had free-thinking societies, people would be so free and everything would be so

764
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:21,280
great and we could dispel with these illusions, then we got trans people saying, "Oh, I'm

765
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:22,900
actually the other sex."

766
00:38:22,900 --> 00:38:25,000
So it's like, that's a metaphysical claim.

767
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:28,800
So you kind of have to decide which metaphysical claim you're going to choose.

768
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:32,560
Are you going to decide that people can be sold in the wrong body, which is a spiritual

769
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:35,680
claim, a metaphysical claim, or do you want to believe in a virgin birth?

770
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,960
So it's kind of like, well, you know, if I have to take the choice of the two.

771
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:41,920
But it also speaks into the truth that if you think that people are going to become more

772
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:44,720
rational or more reasonable without God, you're wrong.

773
00:38:44,720 --> 00:38:45,760
You are completely wrong.

774
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:46,760
They're not.

775
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:48,280
We've proven that in the past 20 years.

776
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:49,560
People do not become more rational.

777
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:50,960
They do not become more logical.

778
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,000
They do not become more thoughtful.

779
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:54,200
They do not entertain debate.

780
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:55,700
They do not look at COVID.

781
00:38:55,700 --> 00:38:56,700
Look at any of these groups.

782
00:38:56,700 --> 00:38:57,700
Yeah.

783
00:38:57,700 --> 00:39:00,160
We thought ignorance, the problem with ignorance was lack of access to information.

784
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:04,320
If everybody had an encyclopedia in their home, everybody would have been, you know, intelligent.

785
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:09,000
But now with access to all of the information in the world, it hasn't made anybody more intelligent.

786
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:10,000
Absolutely.

787
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,680
So for me, again, it's, and I will say this, it's not, I'm not going out into the world

788
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:15,180
like what we grew up in Austin.

789
00:39:15,180 --> 00:39:19,040
I'm not going out and be like, "I'm going to be like in the tent and do all the right

790
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:20,400
and for shake the bat."

791
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:22,200
For me, it's a very private thing.

792
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:24,600
It's something I do personally in my own private life.

793
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:28,720
I'm not looking to like, you know, go out and be like, "You must convert or not."

794
00:39:28,720 --> 00:39:33,720
You know, but I do think that in this moment of time that we're in, coming back to old

795
00:39:33,720 --> 00:39:39,440
institutions that have built society, I think it's an important thing to do.

796
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:43,320
Even if you don't, you know, want to sign on every dot and tittle, you obviously have

797
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:44,480
to figure out what you want to do.

798
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:48,080
And it's, and I will say it's very hard because you either skew, there's no middle ground,

799
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:52,240
it seems to me in this faith journey that I'm on, because it's like you either go towards

800
00:39:52,240 --> 00:39:56,760
complete and total annihilation of your faith through wokeism or you go to these severe

801
00:39:56,760 --> 00:40:00,080
strictures of the world that say that the world was built in literally six days.

802
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:04,260
And I'm like, well, so there, it's like, how do you, it's like, I got to be able to work

803
00:40:04,260 --> 00:40:08,200
within something here and I can't, I can't go in either direction here.

804
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:13,520
So, and how do you reveal, how do you, um, alleviate the cognitive dissonance?

805
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:15,180
You just leave.

806
00:40:15,180 --> 00:40:16,180
You just leave the church.

807
00:40:16,180 --> 00:40:20,560
It's just like, I can't, I can't reconcile this severe wokeism of whatever this is.

808
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:24,440
And I can't reconcile the, you know, that God made the world in six days.

809
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:27,400
Um, so I'm just going to walk away from the whole enterprise entirely.

810
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:29,600
And I'm like, well, I don't know.

811
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:34,000
I think if we can, I look at it as an artist, I look at it through symbols and like, I'm

812
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:35,640
really into what Jonathan Peugeot does.

813
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:39,760
I don't know if you know him or not, but he's a, he's a YouTuber and he speaks, he's an artist

814
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:41,900
and he speaks a lot in symbolism.

815
00:40:41,900 --> 00:40:45,600
And I think if we can look for me, it really helps for me to look at things in terms of

816
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:46,680
symbols.

817
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:47,880
Like even Carl Jung, right?

818
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:52,780
The great psychologist Carl Jung said, it's important for people to have some concept

819
00:40:52,780 --> 00:40:57,220
of God because it has to do with your mental health, how you walk in the world.

820
00:40:57,220 --> 00:40:59,680
You know, even the founders were like the creator, right?

821
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:06,640
They had in their, in their founding documents and ethos of this idea of a, some kind of God.

822
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:08,060
Many of them were dayists.

823
00:41:08,060 --> 00:41:10,880
You know, my boy, George Washington, he was an Anglican like me.

824
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:12,640
Yeah, George, what's up?

825
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:17,960
But you know, it's, it's I don't have all the answers and I don't have to have all the

826
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:18,960
answers, right?

827
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:23,120
It's not on me to have all the answers, but I'm, and I don't know, it's a journey.

828
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:24,120
It's a path I'm on.

829
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:28,360
I'm, I'm doing it because I care about the West and I care about civilization and I care

830
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:33,840
about the accumulation of what we have built over thousands of years and how can we preserve

831
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:34,840
that?

832
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:39,840
And I think that religion does play a key part in that, in that development of civilization.

833
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:47,320
I mean, when I went to school at Simpson College, I, the first classes we took were on music

834
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:48,320
history.

835
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:51,160
And what would you believe that all the beginning of the musical history classes I took were

836
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:54,920
all about Greece, the very, very first classes I took were all about the history of Greece

837
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:57,360
and music in Greece, because that's where it started.

838
00:41:57,360 --> 00:41:58,880
And then we went into the Catholic mass.

839
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:04,400
So, I mean, those two kind of branches were the foundational educational basis of my music

840
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:07,920
education and everything we learned, like the chance of the Catholic church and all of

841
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:08,920
the musical traditions.

842
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:14,960
So, I mean, the Western world owes, it's like Rubio said, we owe ourselves to these ideals,

843
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:18,040
these, these Greek and, and, uh, Christian ideals.

844
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:22,480
They are two strands, you know, I don't know, that's how I feel about it.

845
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:24,280
Well, thank you for sharing.

846
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:29,360
I, I know that spiritual exploration is a very personal thing.

847
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:30,360
Yeah.

848
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:32,880
And I don't, like I said, I'm not, I'm not, uh, what am I saying today?

849
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:36,880
I'm not, I'm not a rabid foaming at the mouth fundamentalist, but there's, there are points

850
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:37,880
of it that are very beautiful.

851
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:38,960
Like the music is beautiful.

852
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:39,960
The traditions are beautiful.

853
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:41,280
The candles are beautiful.

854
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:42,280
Like there's something lovely about it.

855
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:45,080
And it does sort of like calm you down mentally.

856
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:48,440
Like it does, you know, it's, it makes you just feel like, okay, I'm not in control.

857
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:49,440
I'm not the main character.

858
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:54,640
I mean, obviously people have written much more strongly about it than I have, but also

859
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:58,440
like we didn't, we didn't have like growing up, Austin and I didn't have any of the tradition

860
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:00,480
of the church as part of our education.

861
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:04,200
Like there was no understanding of like the history of the Christian church or like how

862
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:07,960
did the church develop and what went on here and how did people think about the church?

863
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:09,680
I mean, we didn't know who St. Augustine was.

864
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:11,420
We didn't know who Thomas Aquinas was.

865
00:43:11,420 --> 00:43:13,340
We didn't know who any of these people were.

866
00:43:13,340 --> 00:43:19,480
So there's a whole world of, and you have to remember during the dark ages, it was the

867
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:24,920
monks that were saving the Greek writers like Aristotle and Plato and all the great thinkers.

868
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:28,160
It was the religious people that were saving those works and being like, we got to save

869
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:30,740
these Greek writers and thinkers and philosophers.

870
00:43:30,740 --> 00:43:34,400
So that even when Jesus was coming along at the time that he was in, he was coming into

871
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:39,240
a very stoic Roman world, like, you know, with, oh, what's his name?

872
00:43:39,240 --> 00:43:41,680
Marcus Aurelius and all those people, right?

873
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:43,960
All of that time, that's when Jesus was coming in.

874
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:47,840
So like all these philosophical ideas and Christianity, I mean, they're all kind of

875
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:50,320
melding together into this melting pot.

876
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:52,240
That is what created the West.

877
00:43:52,240 --> 00:43:53,320
So I don't know.

878
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:55,800
I think there's some value in learning what these things are, even if you don't believe

879
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:58,640
them, you know, that's why I'm saying even if you don't, if you just want to like look

880
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:05,240
at things historically, it's still a fascinating history of where did we come from as a civilization?

881
00:44:05,240 --> 00:44:10,040
Because we are being asked, I think today to ask if we want to keep these values or

882
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:15,360
if we want to discard them and become a globalist empire and just have be run by tyrants, you

883
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:18,740
know, globalist tyrants.

884
00:44:18,740 --> 00:44:20,360
No time to get into that.

885
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:21,360
It's 859.

886
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:26,280
Justin, thank you for sharing that with us and, you know, good luck on your faith journey.

887
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:29,920
I'm going to be interested to see where you end up.

888
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:35,240
It looks like there's you've still got a lot of like working out of some issues.

889
00:44:35,240 --> 00:44:37,840
It's not it's not it's not it's not a clean thing.

890
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:39,840
I think if it is clean, there's something wrong.

891
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:43,400
If it's really tidied up in a bow and you're just like, oh, it's so easy, then you don't

892
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:44,400
need faith.

893
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:46,640
You don't need faith because you just have it all figured out.

894
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:52,000
So I remember I like I talked to a rabbi once because, you know, I was just like questioning

895
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:56,800
God and really just trying to like understand and even the rabbi was like, I don't know.

896
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:58,640
I don't have all the answers.

897
00:44:58,640 --> 00:44:59,760
And he said the same thing.

898
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:02,000
It's like it's just faith.

899
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:05,700
There's really no proof about these certain things.

900
00:45:05,700 --> 00:45:09,860
So even religious leaders will will admit that they're still exploring and they're still

901
00:45:09,860 --> 00:45:11,260
kind of figuring it out.

902
00:45:11,260 --> 00:45:13,720
If they're honest, I think that's all that's the honest thing.

903
00:45:13,720 --> 00:45:16,800
It's like when you go to somebody and they're like, oh, well, do you just have to do this?

904
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:21,240
And that's the self assured kind of like thing for me is a real turn off because I'm like

905
00:45:21,240 --> 00:45:24,200
to be the world is full of doubts and mystery and unknown things.

906
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:27,800
And I'm like, if you're just so self assured, it's like, I don't know, it's a real turn

907
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:29,120
off for me.

908
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:30,120
Recording stuff.

909
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:31,120
Justin, we love you.

910
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:32,300
Thanks so much for hanging out with us.

911
00:45:32,550 --> 00:45:34,110
That's today's Wake Up America Show.

912
00:45:34,110 --> 00:45:35,150
Thanks so much for tuning in.

913
00:45:35,150 --> 00:45:36,230
Follow the podcast.

914
00:45:36,230 --> 00:45:40,130
So tomorrow's edition is waiting for you, and watch the full show anytime

915
00:45:40,130 --> 00:45:42,470
at 4LibertyNetwork.com.