Rebecca: Welcome to the Stone Table Podcast. I'm your host Rebecca Innes. Today's episode is going to start somewhere familiar for many of us, but maybe something new with respect to some of the strength principles that we will be diving deep into in this episode, which are the Strong First principles. It's not just about stones. It's about a system. It's a way relating to to the weight essentially and a way of standing in front of something that's heavy and how you're deciding to meet it. My guests today are Ben Bradbury from England and Sven Rieger from Germany. Both are Strong First coaches, deeply thoughtful lifters, phenomenal lifters actually, and both have taken these principles outside of the gym into the world of stones.
Ben Bradbury: you
Rebecca: Sven has lifted the Dinnies Ben is about to lift the Dinnies. They've both had lifts of Inver and other historic stones, which we'll delve into today. So it's not a conversation today about who lifts the biggest stone, but it's how these principles have become practice for them and how the confidence that they've built quietly in the Strong First ⁓ has allowed them to get to the stones in the first place. So Ben, Sven. ⁓ That's a little full welcome to the podcast guys
Ben Bradbury: You
Sven: Thank you very much for having us.
Ben Bradbury: Yeah, thank you.
Rebecca: Well, I'm really, as I said before we got on, I am super nerded out about this conversation. We have a lot to pack in in an hour and a half. and we're going to run the gamut. So the first thing is I always do with every guest is I say, Hey, what are you drinking? Let's warm up a little bit with a chat about that.
Sven: So, because everybody's sick around me, I have hot lemon. And sometime throughout the conversation, I will probably transition to herbal tea.
Rebecca: Sven! Ha ha ha. Excellent. And Ben what we have.
Sven: you
Ben Bradbury: I've got a good old fashioned black coffee, but for ⁓ historic reasons and stuff we might touch on, I've got a rum and shrub, which was one of my granddad's favorite drinks. I haven't gone full Navy rum like he would have done, but for people who don't know shrub, it's an old English alcoholic cordial and it was used when they brought rum over and they smuggled it in in barrels and the barrels would get contaminated and the rum would be...
Sven: you
Ben Bradbury: salty and wouldn't taste good. So they put this in, which was fruity and herby to disguise rum that had gone bad basically.
Rebecca: Wow. Now, yeah, depending on how long we are here, ⁓ I'm at 7am. So I'm drinking my coffee, but I still on my little stone table here have some whiskey to the side in case we do get that deep into this chat. So, and it's a Canadian and it's amazing. I first tried it first last night. And ⁓ for those Canadians listening that haven't tried it and need something,
Sven: you
Rebecca: in place of bourbon, this is a go-to try. A nice Canadian try while we are, our southern neighbors are not sending up alcohol at the moment. So we have to find alternatives. All right. So. This is my first time hosting with two people in a couple of weeks. I'm going to be hosting, think six people at a time. you're going to, you're going to be my, ⁓ test run of how I, yeah, of how I run this. So to start off with, let's get right into Strong First. You're both coaches in that you, I think you're also trainers, but tell us a bit about.
Sven: The guinea pigs.
Rebecca: about yourself and how you came into the Strong First system and then we'll talk about Strong First itself, Sven.
Sven: So basically, just by pure accident, I started training when I was 18, so roughly 20 years ago, basic stuff like dumbbells at home, pull up bar in the garden, nothing that fancy. ⁓ ⁓ day a friend of mine asked me whether I would like to join his training group in the afternoon. he said ⁓ might be interested in what they're doing there and it's completely different from what I'm used to it's like, okay You know what? Let's just give this a try and at that time it was a circuit training like high intensity stuff new in Germany at that point but what really peaked my interest was that cannonball with the handle sitting on the floor and I hadn't seen something like that at that time and for whatever reason after the training, stuck with me. friend of mine who was there as well decided to get one for himself together with a book by Pavel Tatsulin. And that basically led me down the rabbit hole. So that was in October of 2010. I got my own pair of kettlebells in February of 2011. And then one thing led to another.
Rebecca: Mm-hmm.
Sven: It took a little longer for me to really get into kettlebells because I was more into barbell training at that time. But the one thing the kettlebell really shines for me in every situation is availability. So you can take it with you wherever you go. And I hit situations where I wanted to keep training, but there was no gym around. the kettlebell popped up in my mind again. And that was what ultimately led me to take my very first certification in 2016.
Rebecca: Wow. And are you a physiotherapist as well?
Sven: Yes, I finished physical school last year.
Rebecca: Okay. Okay, well, congratulations with that. So we have a wealth of a knowledge here. And Ben.
Sven: Thank you.
Ben Bradbury: Yeah, so I started training ⁓ in my sort of late teens. ⁓ My way in was ⁓ sister's boyfriend at the time was in the British army and so he would just take me out on runs ⁓ ⁓ there's one thing they do in the army, ⁓ cover ground and lots of it. So I was humbled but kind of interested and he just gave me some ⁓ and I just started training in the gym. Loved it. very caught up with high intensity training, similar to, similar to Sven. So everything was ⁓ much as I could do, in as short a time as I could do it. You know, I didn't feel like I was going to puke at the end of a session, it maybe wasn't it worth it. wasn't worth it. Not very wise training, but, ⁓ for someone in their sort of late teens, early twenties, you can bounce back from pretty much anything. And then I trained as a coach. I've a coach for about 16 years now. And about 14 years ago, I just felt I wanted to learn more. I just felt I'd done my PT qualification, but ⁓ it was ⁓ And I just I was trying to read as many books I could lay my hands on. I'd gone through some of the athletic training books with Mike Boyle stuff and found it really interesting. But and a friend who ⁓ is osteopath just recommended, I think you should look into these guys. ⁓ I think you should look into this organization called Strong First. I think you'd really like it. yeah, ⁓ looked into it. loved it straight away, what I saw. Got myself some kettlebells and started training for my first ⁓ cert, which ⁓ 2014.
Rebecca: And you also own a gym, correct?
Ben Bradbury: Yeah, so I own, I've been coaching for mostly one-to-one for about 16 years. And then about five years ago, I opened up a gym where we do all small group training. So it's all coach led. It's all very structured. It's all general population. know, I working with quote unquote normal people. Although every and then you get something amazing thrown your way. So I was very lucky. I had a friend come and what became a good friend who wanted to set a new world record, which he did. He's in the Guinness Book of Records now. He was the first man to ⁓ ⁓ around the British Isles, which had been done in pairs and fours, but with one manpower, it's very hard to beat the tides and the weather. And yeah, he managed to do it. It took two attempts, it spanned many years, but yeah, ⁓ mostly I teach population. And then from an athletic background myself. I'm a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu black belt, so I started Jiu-Jitsu before I found Strong First, before I became a coach even. So that predates it all. And just found the combination between the Strong First work and the Jiu-Jitsu really, really complemented really well.
Rebecca: Yeah, like you've hit on something really important for me is the normalcy ⁓ the clientele that both of you have, ⁓ those are the type of people that I like to draw to the Stone Table podcast. Obviously, the stone lifting world is made up of extremes, right? You have the professionals and you have the person that's picking up the stone the first time. ⁓ what really resonates with me is like bringing everybody to the table, those middle normal people that aren't necessarily going to be lifting a 500-pound stone any day but but are brought there simply because of the practice. I think you're saying is ⁓ strength, be strong, be kind, be what is it again? ⁓
Ben Bradbury: ⁓ you've really done your homework. My, my, my gym's motto that we have up is be strong, be capable, be kind.
Sven: Yeah
Rebecca: It's that simple. And I think those principles overlay with The Stone Table stone lifting for me in general. ⁓ between the two of you, we have collectively probably about 40 plus years of experience that we're going to delve into today. ⁓ ⁓ think what so I'm a bit, I'm slightly biased, obviously, I'm going to express that to folks right now about my Strong First affiliations. ⁓
Sven: Hahaha
Rebecca: I'm not a coach. I'm not anything like that. But I was in between coaches last year and I decided for a goal that I was going to put my whole into my whole effort into competing in Highland games last summer. ⁓ And met John Odin online ⁓ and been reading and ⁓ watching number of his videos and I follow him. ⁓ And there was something that just resonated within me because he's not a big guy. He, although he is a big guy in the strength world, but he isn't a big, he looks completely normal and I'm normal. And I thought, okay, I'm gonna commit to what he's dishing out and I'm going to follow and do what he is prescribed.
Sven: Yeah.
Rebecca: programmed myself based on what I was learning online through Strong First principles, and I ended up being national champion for the Highland Games in Canada last year. So something works in the program, and I didn't realize your affiliations until I'd already invited you. So no bias whatsoever, but let's delve into it. What is Strong First? Like, how would you describe Strong First in simple terms? And we'll start with you.
Sven: you
Ben Bradbury: You
Rebecca: Ben and then you can build on Sven.
Ben Bradbury: Yeah. So in really simple terms, it's a training organization. So it's an organization that provides education for anybody that wants to come and learn. It's not just for coaches. A lot of certs that you go to, the vast majority of people are not coaches. are people that have just loved training and want to find out more and want to learn how to do it better. So they provide technical coaching on specific tools. Most certs will be set up around a certain tool. So they have their kettlebell cert. which is the SFG. They have a barbell certification and they have a body weight one. keep the tools simple. ⁓ mostly just those three, but is programming and ⁓ philosophy around strength training as well. And a lot of that just ⁓ comes by osmosis, especially the ⁓ ethos. you'll go along to these certs and you're on the surface just learning how to use one tool. But what they're really teaching you is how to apply your strength. to anything that you want to. And then they have special courses, so things like strong endurance and plan strong, which delve really deep into the science and the particulars of programming for certain outcomes. But you can also pick up some of Pavel's books, which have just distilled all of those. And they make it so simple that you just go, ⁓ I'm just going to grab this kettlebell. I'm going to do 10 sets of 10 swings. I'm going to do 10 get ups. And I'm going to keep doing it. And stuff like that just makes it really accessible.
Sven: ⁓ mean, I think ⁓ very important point ⁓ repeat ⁓ is Ben about educational side of things. ⁓ Like we see as a school. So our goal is to teach people to get strong or stronger, depending on the person. ⁓ Strength for us is a skill, something that you can learn. You're not born strong or weak. You are born with certain capabilities ⁓ and in the end, it's just a matter of having right ⁓ let's say, to dive into those abilities and to really nurture them. We use the physical side of things, strength training, barbells, kettlebells, bodyweight. But ultimately, as one of our instructors said, like, it's the gateway to all the manifold forms that strength actually has. One of the famous, my famous quotes that ⁓ Jones, our former director of education made was, ⁓ ⁓ of the strongest people that he met in his life never lifted a single weight. And I think if you are open enough to get into strength training from that perspective, you will realize like most people who just go to the gym and train every day that it actually has benefits and effects that surpass the physical by degrees. ultimately it is probably
Rebecca: Hmm.
Sven: a program of self-improvement that is disguised as strength training. ⁓
Rebecca: And that is another aspect of this program that I like. And you can really sense this from John in the interactions with John is that it's a psychological spiritual journey as well. But we'll get into that in a little bit later. I want to delve into something. I've done five, three, one. I've done a West side. I've done any type of range. Why? Amongst all of the things you could have chosen, all of the programming you could have why StrongFirst?
Sven: For me, like I said in the beginning, it was actually the tool. So I did not choose a specific program to start with. I was just hooked by the kettlebell. And if somebody read Enter the Kettlebell, which I think was released sometime around 2008, Pavel features so many of the old strongmen in there. George Hackenschmidt, Sieg Klein, and all those amazing stories that go along with them. So for me, actually, it was that aspect.
Rebecca: Mm-hmm.
Sven: And then I tried different programs, but at that time I was just... Well, a little too... How do you want to say that? I didn't get what the programs were about because I always try to make them better by what I knew to be good. it took probably around 10 years for me to realize like, okay, just do the program as an outline. It will work. But I think in the end, it is just an option for you to choose and pick from because...
Ben Bradbury: You
Rebecca: Ha ha! Mm-hmm.
Sven: All the good programs out there that work actually will adhere to a certain amount of principles that stand behind the program. ⁓ once those ⁓ there, ⁓ really doesn't matter. And programs like 5.3.1 or Starting Strength, I'm blanking on the name. Who wrote it? Mark Ripto. Yeah, if a program like that is out there for
Rebecca: Mm-hmm.
Ben Bradbury: RIP it's home.
Rebecca: RIPTO. Yeah, RIPTO.
Sven: I don't know how many decades you know that it will work. I think a crucial thing about a program is pick one and then stay with it. That was one of my big lessons. Finish the program because it will teach you something about yourself. Whether the program will work or not is not beyond the point, but it's not all there is to it because you will...
Rebecca: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Sven: You will learn about your own body, about your rhythm of adaptation, about the optimal training frequency and stuff like that. But you need something that gives you the opportunity to judge that, to get a measurement. And then you can continue different programs from there on.
Rebecca: Ben, any thoughts on that or ⁓ piggybacking on what Ben or Sven said?
Ben Bradbury: Similar to Sven, I don't think I realized ⁓ the gold I'd struck when I signed up with Strong First for the first time. ⁓ made a really smart choice by dumb luck. I think I was drawn in because I saw this cert that had standards. ⁓ With of these Strong First certs, they have a standard that you have to hit. There is testing as part of it. ⁓
Sven: you
Ben Bradbury: I probably like that for the wrong kind of reasons to start off with or what I would now consider to be the wrong reasons. They've always said they're not, what's the phrase? They are elite, they're not elitist. And what I found was lovely when I actually have been along to most of these, all of these certs is some people will qualify on that weekend when they go along, whether it's the barbell, bodyweight, kettlebell. Some people will walk away with that certification of you achieved. Some people won't get it on the day, but that doesn't mean they failed the cert. And brilliant about this First community is depending on the cert, they're given ⁓ kind three to six months afterwards to try and hit those standards and they can video submit. But the people that are on that cert with them will help them every step of the way as much as they lean on them. So you can reach out to the master instructor that was leading your cert who probably lives on a different continent. and they will make time. And I can say this with confidence because I've met so many of them. These are busy people. They're running their own lives. They're going around the globe teaching as well as family and their own businesses and whatever. They will still make time to help the people on their team pass that cert. I went into it because I liked the intensity of it. I liked, there's a standard and I have to do these things. And it gave me something to work towards. But then once I got in there, it's been an education in terms of there's so much more to it than that. And it's helped me find a way to calm down that part of me that just wants to go hell for leather all the time. And the thing that blew me away, day one, stepped into the room. Back in that time when I did it, there was a few of the testing standards they made you do straight away. So you...
Rebecca: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Ben Bradbury: signed your name on the enrollment thing. And then they went, there's a pull-up bar, do five strict pull-ups, let's see if you can do it. They don't do that now, but straight out the gate, was like, woo. But the thing that blew me away was I opened up the manual and the first page is a code of conduct. This is how we expect you to behave. ⁓ they've pared it down to just three now, but there was, I think there was five. ⁓ it is things like, I'm a student of strength. I'm a quiet professional. strength has a greater purpose. And the one that I really liked, which I don't know why they changed it, but the way I carry my strength matters. And all of those just resonated with me from what I'd seen in martial arts as well. There is a responsibility to being strong in whatever way you are strong. We're talking about physical strength. In martial arts, it's your technical prowess, your ability to fight. But it's something that I'd seen in martial arts and it's something that my grandparents had taught my dad and my dad had passed on to me that you have a responsibility to look after people around you and being strong in whatever way is you have a responsibility with it. Strength is a responsibility and that could be physical strength, that could be intellectual strength or financial, whatever it might be. And I didn't understand all of that and I haven't... I still haven't put all the pieces together. Actually prepping for this podcast helped me draw some of those pieces together. And with my imminent, I'm about to become a father for the first time, has just, there's a lot of stuff that is now coming together in my head. But even though I didn't understand it all then, the first time I opened that manual and I saw there was a code of conduct, it just flicked a switch in me. And I went, ⁓ I'm home. This is place for me.
Rebecca: So when you were telling, I didn't go as deep as to look at the code of conduct, but when you were speaking them, like I got shivers because they resonate with me ⁓ what I'm trying to bring to the stone community. And I think the one where I think it was the second one that you said is that quiet, that quiet, like, even though we are having a conversation here and we are, ⁓
Ben Bradbury: Okay.
Rebecca: speaking about it, there's a quiet strength and it's those quiet individuals within this community that are completely humbling to me. They may not be on social media, they may not be putting up their posts, but they're quietly working away in the background, demonstrating their strength, whether it be internally, mentally, spiritually. and lifting three, four, 500 pound objects. But they're just quietly doing it. And want to highlight those and that the code just resonates with ⁓ the principles The Stone Table for me.
Ben Bradbury: Yeah, and it was something that struck me. I also like the phrase, I don't know who said it first, but if you're good, you'll tell everyone. If you're great, they'll tell you. And I've met some people, even in Strong First, and they don't tend to stick around, but I've met some people that they wanna show off at those certs. They wanna win the cert, and they wanna prove how great they are. And they'll go around telling everybody at the cert. They just...
Rebecca: Yeah.
Ben Bradbury: tend to filter themselves out because that's not, it's not, ⁓ they don't find a receptive audience for it there. Whereas so many people in Strong First are incredibly humble and they can do, you don't know who you're stood next to and how incredible they can do because they don't need to make a big deal about it. They're there to help you. They want to help you at that cert and they'll never blow their own trumpet. And then,
Rebecca: Hmm.
Ben Bradbury: quite often you'll go back from a certain, you'll go, ⁓ look that person up, who that was. And ⁓ my God, I didn't realize, you know, who I was in the presence of. And it encourages you and it really inspires you to carry that into your everyday. You know, you don't need to tell everybody what you do. You don't need to show off, but what you can do is you can use it to help them. And yeah, that's a lot more rewarding.
Rebecca: Well, and that's how this podcast between us came about because just resonated with your energies and were talking about the Inver stone ⁓ I just resonated. But then when I started to prepare, ⁓ started to actually panic slightly because I'm, I realized who I speaking to and how much background you have and knowledge you have. And I thought I'm out of my depth, ⁓ but you ⁓ it's But that in itself, I know you're gonna walk me along as we go through further when we talk about strength principles, but there is something to that. So obviously Strong First kind of brought you together. Can you talk about how you first connected? Like where did that come in?
Sven: I do remember very clearly. Yeah, that was in 2017. I was taking the Barber certification at that time in England. And just to come back to that whole quiet professional topic here, that is exactly what Ben exemplified at that certification because I was like, wow, like, you know that the the assistants who
Rebecca: you
Sven: participate at the certifications have to do the testing themselves the day before. So when you participate, you know that they went through the same thing that you will have to go through during the weekend. So it's like, how do you say? Walking the talk? There is a there's a saying so they just they're not there because they want to be there. They actually earned that spot to to assist and then just his like
Rebecca: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Sven: His coaching eye, the cues he gave, I was really impressed by him and I think we kept contact ever since.
Rebecca: Yeah, and so, okay, and you've kept in contact. So you've been kind of like, was there a mentorship or was it just like a friendship and you're like, how would you coin that? Because how did it lead to a stone lifting tour?
Ben Bradbury: So it, yeah, basically, yeah. So we just hit it off from that cert. And then I don't think we were communicating that regularly, but Sven came over for a couple of other certs. So Sven came over and assisted at, was it one of the SFGs that you came over to assist on as well?
Sven: immediate friendship. Sorry. No. I came over for a kettlebell certification. You came over to Germany for a little seminar I organized here. I came back to England, think, to other certifications the following year. not that close contact, but we saw each other regularly.
Ben Bradbury: And then was probably ⁓ ⁓ think it was 2022, ⁓ started just incorporating some sandbag training into what I was doing. ⁓ I was posting it online and Sven messaged me and said, hey, look, Sven had already, I think Sven had already lifted the Dinnies for the first time by then. And ⁓ Sven dropped a message and just said, hey, ⁓ you seem be lifting these sandbags.
Rebecca: right.
Ben Bradbury: I'm thinking of doing a stone lifting tour next year. Would you like to join me? And I bricked it and suddenly panicked and went, ⁓ no, somebody's thought I can do something I can't here. I've overrepresented myself. yeah, then that led more into mentorship then because then I asked if Sven would start ⁓ coaching, ⁓ help write for to get ready for the stone lifting. So then it became a bit more mentorship and that just led us to interacting more, a better friendship. We started messaging more around the mentorship. We would just then talk more often and voice note each other and FaceTime each other. And yeah, it drew us closer through that.
Rebecca: And so Sven, let's talk about the programming then. We're not, we will get into more details when we're talking about like Inver stone and that, like just as a base programming, did you use Strong First principles ⁓ were kind of giving Ben advice on how to prep for that stone tour?
Sven: basically just told him what I had been doing to lift the Dinnie stones. And I was like, you know, this is the outline I used. Why won't you give it a try, see how it works, and then we can adjust based how things go. And I think I made some smaller adjustments based on my own program, ⁓ like regarding the training for the Dinnie stones themselves, I think we pretty much did a similar approach. ⁓
Rebecca: Okay, and if you haven't read Sven's articles on the Dinnie Stone prep, it's a and I'm going to provide links because they go through, I think it's the most specific explanation of ⁓ Dinnie lift prep that I've seen ⁓ any social media or ⁓ ones.
Sven: Yeah. Hahaha
Rebecca: I don't want to get into the details of the articles because they're fantastic, but let's talk about just the general arc that you went through for the Dinnies, because there was some general strength and then there was specificity. Let's talk about that.
Sven: So... When I wanted, when I set my eyes on lifting the Dinnie stones, I never lifted anything that was even close to them in weight before. So to, reach 300 kilos in a rack pull, because you need to, how did I say, proof worthy for an attempt to show that you're capable. And ⁓ think more than anything else that you're not going to hurt yourself at the attempt. You have to, to, to provide. proof of a lift of at least 300 kilos. And I think they leave it open to you to pick whatever you want to do. I mean, a rack pull, so an elevated deadlift is, yeah, the obvious choice. I reached out to another Strong First instructor who became a very good friend by then, Jason Marshall from Texas, because he lifted the Dinnie Stones in 2019. He has a extensive background in power lifting, both as an athlete and as a coach. I saw him training for the stones and I just asked him, you know, how do I get best go about that? And I... followed a very simple standard power cycle of linear progression for the rack pulls. came to a point where I plateaued and no matter how hard I tried, it just wouldn't move the way I wanted it to go. We decided to basically change gears and go back to that more foundational aspect of strength training again, ⁓ a little different impulse to the body and then transitioned back half a year later to the rack pulls and trying to go beyond that plateau I reached in the first place. And that worked just great. So as you said, you can read all the details in the article, but it was nothing super fancy. were basic programs just done over a certain period of time. I reached the 300 kilo rack pull and then transitioned to the replica pins.
Rebecca: Mm-hmm.
Sven: So making things a little bit more specific in regards of the actual lift, but keeping very basic training or programming principles in the background. So not going super fancy, maxing out every day, just getting used to the feel of two independent weights from two different heights versus a barbell that you pull straight from an elevated position. Yeah, that was basically it. It just was a matter of time. I had one minor change happening when I started physiotherapy school because I had no access to it gym any longer. Meaning I was reliant on mainly kettlebells and the pins. But ultimately that worked out just great.
Rebecca: And so why did you choose to lift the Dinnies anyway? I mean, Ben, you've kind of been forced and not forced, but coerced into coerced into stone by Sven by this point, but ⁓ right?
Ben Bradbury: You Happily so.
Rebecca: But why, why Sven Exactly. ⁓
Sven: If I could tell you, is the same, believe me, it's the same feeling as with the kettlebell. Why that freaking kettlebell? I cannot tell you. It just resonated to something within me. When I saw Jason do those lifts, I mean, if you look at just, it's two blocks of weight that he pulls with loud, aggressive music in the background. Most people would just like, what the hell is that guy doing? But I was like, why is he doing that? I was interested in why he would train specifically that way. He did and then he told me about the Dinnie Stones and then I watched big surprise, Stone Land. And I was just hooked. mean, the atmosphere of that documentary, the scenes, the shots, it is just astonishing. And I mean, they build it up in a fantastic way so that it peaks with the Dinnie Stones having all those people there together, Jack and Stevie Shanks. It drives a tear into my eyes every time I watch that scene.
Rebecca: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I
Sven: So I cannot tell you, it just, I had to.
Rebecca: It's the same. It's the same. have no idea why I've chose stones myself. It's just a longing there. But Ben, so you were kind of lovingly coerced into this journey. But you you did speak about something both in our messages and prep for this conversation, but just earlier is that you said, ⁓ like, I don't think I'm prepared for this because there's kind of this mentality that it's a big boy kind of sport practice. It's for a certain, like the way you see on Instagram, it's just a lot of bigger people maybe doing it. And like, I definitely do not ⁓ fit traditional body type But let's talk about Instagram might have been misleading slightly in that. And can we unpack that a little bit more?
Ben Bradbury: Yeah, I'm not someone who believes in themselves easily. I will ⁓ take long time to convince myself that I can ⁓ do And even once I've done it, I'll go, that was a fluke. Every belt I've got in Jiu Jitsu, I've gone, ⁓ maybe it's because I've been in the background for enough years and they feel sorry for me. I will talk myself out of confidence very easily. And stones. ⁓ I mean, before Instagram, before social media, World's Strongest Man was on every year. In England, it's shown at Christmas time. They film it in the summer or whatever, but it's always shown at Christmas time. It's a tradition here. So I grew up every year. We all sat down and we'd watch Strongman. My mom loves it. My dad loves it. Even though they, you don't have to know what's going on because it's so visual. You just see these huge, huge guys throwing around huge things. And so I'd watch them do the Atlas stones every year. And then, you know, some of the early years they would, they used the Husaffel stone early on the year it was in Iceland. And then I think they made their own one. I remember in the early nineties, they had something called the Africa stone, which was the shape of the continent of Africa, basically a Husserwell kind of knockoff that they could take with them. And you just go, well, that's for those gorilla men. That's for those huge dudes. That's...
Rebecca: Mm-hmm.
Ben Bradbury: It's amazing to watch and I love watching it and it's brilliant. And you'll take it with you, but I never thought it was for me. So then a lot of my training, early training even, I think subconsciously was built around, I'm not the biggest guy. I'm the youngest of five, ⁓ boys, one girl. I'm not even the tallest out of ⁓ siblings. ⁓ my sister, I'm the shortest one. ⁓ My granddad was a big dude. He was like sort of 6'2". Some people just remind you of animals. He was a bear. He just, you looked at him and you went, that dude's a bear. He's just, I know that has some connotations in some other, in some other communities. I don't mean it that way, just in physical build and stature. ⁓ And brother inherited his build. I didn't.
Rebecca: you
Sven: you
Ben Bradbury: I inherited my dad's build and we're just, you know, I'm just under five, 10. I'm not, not a big guy. The heaviest I've been is about 84 kilos. Most of my jiu jitsu, competed at a lightweight, so down at 74 or something like that. So I think even my early training was, you know, I can't lift those big things, but what I can do is have a huge work capacity. And that's why I think I was drawn to the high intensity stuff when I was younger. guy that I went out running with who was in the British army that you could just keep going and going. I could hang with him for the first couple of kilometers ⁓ then he was like a machine. And I just thought, ⁓ it'd good to be like a machine. Early on in Jiu-Jitsu, that's what I could do. I couldn't people. I couldn't out-size people. But if I could just draw them into deep waters and make them tired, ⁓ then maybe could get the advantage. If I could survive long enough for them to tire themselves out, I could win. ⁓ But gradually, through Strong First especially, I just realized strength is there for everybody and everybody can get stronger. And then I think I'd used sandbags for conditioning stuff early on. I was at university, I had a horrible little dingy ⁓ gym and I'd, used to make my own sandbags because it was, you couldn't buy them then. So I'd get army kit bags and stuff them through the sand and they'd burst after about three uses and you'd just be pouring sand all over the place. But I used to use them for carries for distance, for conditioning. ⁓ I think then seeing ⁓ Cerberus ones at Strongman events and then realizing I could buy them and really realizing I could buy them in, you know, humble sizes, I just got myself a ⁓ one and thought I'll start with this one. And then I found every... ⁓ three to six months, I was like, I think I'm ready for the next size bag. And I'd order the next one and I'd order the next one. And that gave me an unintimidating way into stone lifting because they're not as intimidating as a stone and you can ⁓ them whatever weight you want. So then when Sven saw me lifting them and invited me on the stone tour, that's when I suddenly had that feeling of, ⁓ I don't know if I'm ready for that, but I also had this thing, the child in me that used to watch World, or still does watch World's Strongest Man, went, ⁓ I can fulfill a, you know, fulfill a childhood yearning to go out and maybe do some of that.
Rebecca: Yeah, like I, and I've been trying to think to something you said when you first launched into this that I kind of want to share is, and I think this comes out in the Strong First because just more than physical strength. But to be honest, as been going on my own stone journey, ⁓ and strongman journeys, even Highland but ⁓ but a less But every time I achieved one of those sandbags, as you say, like when you achieve that, I actually get, I used to get very anxious and I wouldn't accept the that I did it. Like I would, I would almost reject the success. And so for me, For people that don't understand, everybody's carrying their own journey in this and it might look outwardly like it's somebody trying to lift 400 pounds. But for me, the journey has been very psychological in accepting success, accepting that I belong in a community, even if I'm not lifting the Husaffel ⁓ ⁓ can gladly say that I've worked on this for lifetime. but mainly specifically for the last 10 years. And I can now accept, hey, I lifted that. I can be proud of that. I don't necessarily have to boast and it outwardly, you know, it may look like a woman just lifting a stone, but I've lifted myself. And I think that's what Strong First does is that it lifts the people more in strength. And so I wonder, What could you, through your gym, through your community, what can we do as these experienced lifters to signal an approachability without kind of lowering the standards, signaling that it's okay to lift that first 50-pound stone, and you did it, and look at success that way?
Sven: I think two things mainly. Like what is talking about your own journey, like you just said. I think it was Jocko Willink who talked about that. ⁓ I just love him for several reasons. He just resonates with me. ⁓ ⁓ was on an interview and he basically said,
Rebecca: Yeah.
Sven: You know, the reason I am lifting heavier weight than you is just because I've been doing that longer than you are. So everybody starts somewhere and there might be people who are naturally more gifted, let's say, like having a built and start at a different place, but nevertheless you have to start somewhere. And I think that's the second point. People should realize that strength training is scalable. Like Ben said, Strong First has standards, technical standards. performance standards. But at the same time, we try to give all of our students their baseline. This is where you want to go. Okay, let's see where you're at, because this will allow us to give you a program that will get you there. It's a matter of time and I will not be able to tell you today how long it will take, but stick to the program. Trust the process. There will be ups and downs, but
Rebecca: Mm-hmm.
Sven: It's not rocket science and that is reachable. So many people out there showed it. If you are... a little stubborn because I think it takes stubbornness to do the things we like to do like lifting rocks and getting bloody forearms and stuff like that. But you will be able to reach it. So many people showed it. People who when you saw them the first time never thought they would be able to reach that. And it is just impressive to ⁓
Rebecca: Yes.
Sven: to have those stories out there. I think talking about it, sharing your own experiences and showing people that you just need to find the right starting point for you.
Rebecca: And as Jocko says, good. Right? Good.
Sven: Yeah, good. If it hurts in the beginning, if it's uncomfortable, good. You have to go through that.
Rebecca: Good. Yeah. And then what are your thoughts? Because obviously with your gym, you have an audience that you have to emulate this for, right?
Ben Bradbury: Yeah. Yeah. So again, in some regards, I feel, I feel like I'm out of my depth. But what you said resonates cause I, cause I'm on my own journey with it. And so I feel like, who am I to say how this should be done, how the community should conduct themselves, how other people should do that. But I know in my gym, it starts with the coaches. So
Rebecca: Mm-hmm.
Ben Bradbury: whenever I onboard a new coach, we sit down and I go through specific things with them saying, like, there are certain ways we want to, there is a certain community we want to foster. Like as a coach, you're not here to show off. You don't use demos as a chance to show how much you can lift. It's about them. And we talk about celebrating all strength achievements. You know, if someone comes in and they grab a 40 kilo kettlebell and press that, that's impressive. is standout impressive. Of course it is. but there could be someone that you've been training for six months and they press the eight kilo kettlebell. And for them, that's as big a milestone as pressing the 40. And as coaches, we need to celebrate that as much. We can't be biased in what we celebrate. And it takes time to build that kind of community, that kind of ethos. But we try and weave it into everything we do. So,
Rebecca: Mm-hmm.
Ben Bradbury: We have our be strong, be capable, be kind, just subtly put a couple of places. We don't like, you know, shout it at the beginning of every class. You know, it's there, but it's in the background. ⁓ have an ⁓ version of that, which sets out our kind of goal as a gym, just by the front door. ⁓ in reception, while they're putting their shoes on and off every now and then, I'll see someone kind of reading through it. But again, we don't... ⁓ we don't draw attention to it. We have talk test posters around the gym. So the talk test we might get onto it is a Strong First, something used in Strong First. It's not uniquely created by Strong First, but it's ⁓ a they use to gauge recovery, especially with some of the strong endurance protocols. ⁓ And part of is, can you speak comfortably enough to not add extra breaths where there aren't punctuation points in a sentence? And, you know, Pavel says you could give your name and address. You could just try and speak it out. But I thought it'd be nice if we have some good quotes around the gym. So I've printed out these quotes that I have around the gym. And again, we don't draw attention to them, but they're all woven with that idea of, you know, strength is unique to each individual. And there's one that I have up in the gym, which I almost feel a little bit of a fraud for having up. And it's a Pavel quote that just says, you If you think you're only strong because you can lift a certain number, whatever that number is, you're gonna feel pretty weak most of the time. Strength isn't a data point, it's an attitude. And I find myself just in between sets sometimes wandering over and looking at that. And I still, I feel like I understand it and I don't. I feel like I try and live it and I don't. So I am still trying to internalize that. But I understand it ⁓ and I don't at the same time.
Rebecca: Like you can't see it through the lens, but like you've made a girl weepy over here because like I, I would say if I saw that in your gym, I would so resonate because isn't that the struggle? Like isn't that the lifelong journey is figuring out that that quote. And I think this segues nicely into what I read, because we're going to get into the stone portion and how Strong First like now we're into the meat of the depth of this discussion. But it really highlights to me what was going through your brain, Sven, when you were lifting those Dinnie stones. Because what I read is that you had tried it once and the mat was a little soft or the ground was soft and you weren't used to that because that's not how you were training. And you knew that you had to go into a second time and that was going to be it. Like, how does how did that prep? How did that Dinnie stone teach you about yourself? So let's dig into the here of that very moment of lifting the Dinnie stones because you mentally knew like because everybody's going to go and read your article after this. This is like a requirement after watching this podcast, ⁓ you'll
Ben Bradbury: Don't just read that one. He's written other fantastic articles as well. Look, go on Strong First, search for Sven. There are several, I recommend every single one.
Rebecca: They are so good. ⁓ But let's talk about that. Let's talk about that mindset because we've all been there.
Sven: Thank you. Where to start? I am somebody who likes to be prepared. So if there's something coming up, I want to have a little extra in the tank, just in case. Because you never know. I'm not sure who coined the phrases, but there is known unknowns and unknown unknowns. There are things you might know that you know that might happen and you always have to keep in the back of your head. There are certain things that will just take you by surprise, no matter how well prepared you are. So no, no matter what I do when let's speaking of like strength goals, I always try to have a little more in the tank for the, actual test, let's say, then I would have to show. And I approached the Dinnie stones basically the exact same way. ⁓ ⁓ goal was to lift five to 10 % more weight in training. than the stones actual weight would be. Also, reducing the amount of warm-up sets I would take so that I'd be ready to go in cold turkey because for example that what Jason Marshall had to do. Like it was a cold rainy, think November day and he was like driving to Potarch came out of the car and like, okay, here are the stones go. It was like, you never know what might happen. So they tell you, you can bring equipment for warm-up, but
Rebecca: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Sven: I mean, we were flying to Scotland, good chance getting any warm up equipment worth bearing the name you ⁓ a flight. ⁓ tried to prepare for exactly that scenario. And ⁓ was actually quite happy because the ⁓ before I went to Scotland, I lifted like 5 % more than the Dinnie Stones ⁓ weigh and it went super well. I was like, ⁓ got that. and On the day I was the last one to arrive actually, like I was 15 minutes early, but everybody was already there and they were starting lifting. And I was like, the German being there for the last one to arrive, like what's going on? And then I saw, I saw lifter after lifter doing their first attempt and nobody was getting the stones. And like,
Rebecca: you
Ben Bradbury: You
Sven: I'm not sure if you know that feeling, but when you have a good preparation and you're confident, you're like, ⁓ looks like I'm the first one today to lift the Dinnie stones. So I approached the stones and Brett Nicol gave me some good pointers again. And I did not realize the mats So whenever I was watching somebody lift the stones, for whatever reason, I did not pay attention to that part.
Rebecca: You
Sven: the mats I had in the gym I was training at, they were like solid. So when I started positioning myself in the setup and tried to start and lift the weights, the weights would not come up, but I would sink down. I was like, what the hell is going on here? This is not the way I envisioned it to go. And I kept pushing and pushing and pushing, lost balance and failed my ⁓
Rebecca: Yeah.
Sven: What I did not see at that moment was my back then girlfriend sitting on the side, actually starting to cry because she feared I would not be able to lift the stones. Probably a good thing because that would have completely got me out of ⁓ up here. I think what helped me ⁓
Rebecca: Yeah. ⁓
Sven: get the second attempt was actually Jason Marshall because I told him hey I have my attempt it's going to be I think it was a Tuesday at 4 or 3 p.m. in the afternoon I'm not sure what time is that in Texas would you be available for a video call I want you to have to be a part of this since you were such a big part of my preparation ⁓ ⁓ me ⁓ could take the phone, speak a little to Jason. He was like, you know what, just make a few adjustments. I was looking down instead of up little things, but that just gave me the, the conviction again, like, okay, you, you actually got this, just go back and do what you did in your training all the time. And, things will work out. And it did, it did. But I think the crucial part for me, the crucial takeaway was even when you think you're prepared you're not.
Rebecca: Mm-hmm.
Sven: It's that unknown, unknown thing. There might always be that element in a given situation that you will not be able to prepare for. And honestly, in my head, I got to the point before doing that second attempt where I was like, you know, even if I should not be able to lift them today, I'm fine with that. So I think the... have a buffer, have a little more in the tank than you might need. But also... Be okay if things don't go the way you want them to because there's always a chance for that. Have people as support there, especially if it's like such a moment that you worked for like for two years.
Rebecca: Junior,
Sven: But there's never a guarantee that you will succeed.
Rebecca: Yeah, and think as many as as much as people think that the Dinnies are a test of strength, it's really a test of self-trust because you like in your article, you said, I knew I only had one more time and it was going to go up ⁓ ⁓ Like the conviction when I read that was just, it is that it's believing for two years, believing in yourself for two years that you're going to do this, getting there, not having the conditions that you want, failing a first lift, but you still remain convicted. And I think that that is relates back to some of those Strong First principles is that it's more than just a strength system, a physical strength system.
Sven: way beyond that. Like we have a saying, fail with integrity. A professional does not have a plan B. You give it your all, the way it's supposed to be, and if it won't go up, let's say in a heavy press, then you don't start making funny movements and risking, let's say, a back injury. You just realize, okay, it's not in me today. Bring it down safely. Live to fight another day.
Rebecca: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Sven: I think that's the saying somebody put out there, but I'm not sure, but it's just what came to my head.
Rebecca: If not, you heard it first here. So you finished the Dinnie's. We've moved on to the stone lifting tour. Ben, talk to us about the lead up to the stone lifting tour. When did it take place and what stones were you going to lift on the tour?
Ben Bradbury: Yeah. Yeah, so Sven contacted me like I said 2022. Hang on, was it 22, 23? 23, sorry. It was 2023, I think. Contact me, yeah. So I'd been lifting these sandbags and Sven reached out and said, look, I'm gonna go and lift the Dinnies again, but we're gonna do some stones, some of the historic stones while we're there. Do you wanna join us? like everybody and everybody and their wife, I'd watched Stone Land and just falled in love with it. The film that launched a million stone lifts. And so ⁓ other thing I'd watched was Dan Strauss, Raspberry Ape, who's ⁓ a British and ⁓ just strength legend. put out a series on YouTube called Stones and Strangleholds, ⁓ which he'd toured around He'd been doing Jiu-Jitsu seminars. And as he'd gone round, he'd lifted some of the historic stones. ⁓ And they're all great.
Rebecca: and
Ben Bradbury: but he did the Inver stone on that one when it was still at, it's June, isn't it? The lady that used to keep the stone when it was still at June's house. I fell in, I love where it is now at the Braemar Highland Game Center. That's where it was when I lifted it, but seeing it at June's house and seeing, hey Liam.
Rebecca: Hi sweetie.
Sven: Say hello. Hello. Yes. No. Wait.
Rebecca: ⁓ we have a sick little one. He needed dad.
Ben Bradbury: Seeing it at June's house as well, I fell in love with the stone and I fell in love with her to be honest. One of my big regrets is that I didn't get into stone lifting in time to go and lift it at her house and meet her, because what a character. Along with some of the other people that are in that video that are unfortunately no longer with us, every time I have a pang of...
Sven: Say hi.
Ben Bradbury: sadness that I'll never get to meet those folks. But yeah, so the Inver stone was instantly on my radar. Whatever other stones we kind of made sense to go and lift, I was interested to go and do. But the Inver stone was one that stuck out to me straight away because I thought, I can't do the Dinnies. You know, I know we've just had all that talk about self-belief. Honestly, I went, I can't do the Dinnies. ⁓ Inver stone. Maybe I can do the Inver stone. Maybe I can do that because that's kind of like these sandbags I've been lifting. I just need to do go ⁓ So I said, well, Sven, will you put a program together for me? I'll train for the, I'll definitely train for the Inver. And I can't remember exactly how the conversations went, but I spent, think Sven basically went, you can train for the Dinnies as well. ⁓ wasn't much of a ⁓ in it. So ⁓ thought, ⁓ know what? ⁓ wrong.
Rebecca: Ha
Ben Bradbury: I won't be able to lift them, but I'll get stronger as I try for it. So why not? know, I'm going to, the time is going to pass anyway. I might as well be doing something productive with it. So why not try and train for them? And I'll get part of the way there. If I can get 50 % of the way to lifting the Dinnies, I'll be stronger than I am now. So why not? And then that was, yeah, two and a half years ago, I think. And I have belief in myself that I can lift those Dinnies now. attempt is booked in for the beginning of May. Like Sven said, ⁓ might happen then, it might not. There's never a hundred percent certainty, but I now have the belief that I will lift them. It's a matter of time. It will probably be in May, but it might not be. But if it's not in May, it will happen. ⁓ that's not a belief that I had when I started training for them, ⁓ is, yeah, I love being able to say that. I don't quite know how that happened. Just hours and hours and hours of being in the gym and doing it.
Rebecca: So I have them.
Sven: Yeah, that's the other effect of training. You build that confidence.
Rebecca: Yeah, so I've been watching you. You've definitely have started your pin training. So obviously you're getting into the stone specific training now. ⁓ ⁓ Sven, you spoke about that. ⁓ mistakes do people make when they rush into the stone specific training, whether it be for the historic, like naturals or the Dinnie's
Sven: I think, speaking natural stones, think if you never touched a natural stone before you might be in for a big surprise because that was that other eye-opening ⁓ moment that I had in Scotland when I went there in 2022 for the Dinnie stones because the Inver stone in Braemar very close to Potarch and I was like you know what I might not have a chance to lift some other stones, but we're so close to the Inver Stone, I will definitely give that a try. And based on its ⁓ like that would be such a cool stone to lift. ⁓ had done zercher in my preparation for the Dinnie Stones, so with the barbell having the bar in the crooks of your elbow. And I thought this is enough to lift a stone up front. I think my heaviest weight was like 150 kilos for a double. So roughly 30 kilos heavier than the Inver stone. I was like, yeah, even if it's different, like 30 kilos heavier, I got ⁓ And then I watched John Odin's video again, making it look like challenge play, getting it up to the shoulder like, yeah, no problem there. I was so taken aback when I first started to get that thing off the floor.
Rebecca: Yes. you
Ben Bradbury: You
Sven: I'm in the wrong movie here. is not right. ⁓ is supposed to go different. I got it to my lap. ⁓ took, I don't know, probably 40, 45 minutes in total. I cannot tell you how many attempts until I was like, okay, this is not going happen today. And I not able to stand up with it. Martin Jancsics
Ben Bradbury: you
Sven: who I was in contact also quite a lot before going to Scotland. He was like, you know what, it's actually quite an achievement get the Inver stone to your lap. But in that moment, it just doesn't feel if you've been preparing for something like we want to celebrate every achievement, no matter how small, but in that given moment, you just cannot accept ⁓ ⁓ get one way or another get a stone based on what I saw Ben achieving with lifting sandbags. I would say, and not just Ben, mean, countless other people by now show you this, but it's a pretty, pretty good alternative if you don't have access to a stone. And just expect to hurt. Because some stones are way rougher than you might think they are. Like the Inver stone has such a combination of being smooth and rough at the same time.
Rebecca: Yeah.
Sven: Approach it humbly, I want to say. Like, if you did strength training before, that's not a guarantee for you to lift a stone, because weight is only one aspect of the whole game. Like, the weight distribution, the shape of the stone, the surface, the texture, like, all those things, even if you think it's not heavy, just regarding the weight, it's like not...
Rebecca: Mm.
Sven: everything. There are so many other aspects you need to keep in mind.
Rebecca: And so when you went back on the trip with Ben, you both got it to the barrel, correct? Ben, let's talk about your lift for that and that experience.
Ben Bradbury: Yeah, so I, I'd in training, I had 120 kilos sandbag, which is about the weight of the, the Inver stone. I'd done most of my work, probably at I had a bag that was 105 kilos and that was the one that I could consistently get up. I managed to lift the 120 kilo bag to chest ⁓ before I, before I went there. So, ⁓ know, I would I am also like Sven, someone that likes to be prepared and over-prepared, but in that case I had to settle for, all right, you've touched something that's similar weight, that's about it. But the 120 kilo sandbag I have is big, you know, it's a lot bigger than the Inver stone, so it's awkward. And I had it long ways between my feet, so I had to stand really wide and I had to kind of shimmy it up between my knees and it wasn't tightly packed, so it was quite a floppy bag and just a nightmare. So in that regard, the Inver stone felt lovely and compact compared to ⁓ But like Sven said, I wasn't prepared ⁓ how rough it was and how much skin it would take off my arms. Not that you notice that until an hour ⁓ ⁓ terms of the journey for it, I drove all the way up. So I live in the South of So I covered the length of England and it's a good way up into Scotland.
Sven: you
Ben Bradbury: I went by myself. My wife wasn't able to join me at that time. She wasn't feeling very well. So I really enjoyed that. It was a lovely, was a long drive, but it was, you know, it's about 10 hours. But it gave me a lot of time to just think, listen to some stuff I wanted to listen to some podcasts, but not overconsume it and just enjoy seeing some parts of even my own country that I hadn't seen before. It was a beautiful drive up, lovely weather, got to, got to where we were staying in Aboyne I had a little Airbnb. I was just down the road from Sven, but we didn't meet up that night. ⁓ So just the quietness, the calmness of being able to get myself ready that morning, ⁓ drive across about a 20, 30 minute drive from Aboyne to, ⁓ Braemar And again, just just landscapes. I had spent a little bit of time in Canada in, in Banff. did a, worked a winter season out on the ski slopes and I
Rebecca: ⁓
Ben Bradbury: I have left part of my heart in the Rockies. I yearn to go back one day. I love them. I love it. And so much of Scotland reminds me of that. We drove actually through Banff in Scotland as well at one point, which just made part of me sing. So that whole just drinking in the journey up to it, the physical journey up to it was just incredible for me. And I'm not always very good at being in the moment.
Rebecca: Mm-hmm.
Ben Bradbury: but I was so glad that I was able to enjoy that part. And then we got there, there's very little fanfare. You turn up, it was a Sunday morning, it was cold, there was dew everywhere, so it was quite damp. We'd arranged, so Sven and I rocked up at the same time. I said hello to his wife and to Liam who you just met. And there's no warmup really. You do a few arm shakes and stretches and stuff. Okay, there it is. I probably wasn't as good at drinking in the moment for that because I just wanted to get it done almost. There was an element of I've got so much ⁓ energy and emotion invested in this and I probably rushed. We lifted it, I think three times, somewhere three or four times we took it up. But that first one
Rebecca: isn't
Sven: Yeah, something like that. Yeah.
Ben Bradbury: I'm glad I've got the video of it. I FaceTimed my wife so she could be there in spirit. But I rushed it. it is what it is. ⁓ learned to try and enjoy it even when you're feeling antsy about getting it done. think trying to, again, enjoy that moment is really important. ⁓ it was... ⁓ It's the culmination of so many things for me. I think it probably was a big turning point in me going, maybe I can do the Dinnie's now as well. It was a stepping stone as well. And just felt elated. I was walking on air for weeks afterwards.
Rebecca: Yeah, I saw the photos and videos of both of you and I'm just like the pictures of Liam there and him watching you and your wife was there or your partner just so the energy around it like it was a real grounded moment and I think Ben you really touched on something for me is that So often in the pursuit of strength, when we get to the actual pivotal moment, that is when we're tested the most to actually stay in our body and be at one with the, be at one with the attempt or be at one with whatever it is that you're doing and not get lost in that anxiety so that that's what stone lifting has, you know, I do compete in stone lifting, but when when I'm not training it per my program, and I'm outlifting. It becomes very much a grounded practice, feeling my feet on the ground, watching my breath, watching how it feels as it goes up. feeling that heaviness as you do the bumps on your chest, feeling the solid ground, like I think, and this is a lifelong practice of staying conscious in your body. And I think this is one strength that the Strong First also teaches is that, that embodiment piece, that listening, that groundedness, and you're going to have another attempt to do it when you go over to retry the Dinnies. So you can, you can be, you can have It'll be doing it again, this time, and I don't know if it is on your list, but this time you can be present and you can, and I think so many times when we see people do these lifts on Instagram is that we only see that moment, right? We don't see the background and the story that you've told, the lead up, the arc to it. the how you were in the moment. And this is what I love about the podcast is being able to get into these stories. I've collected so many stories around the Inver like yours. It ⁓ a lot of people's ⁓ stone. If it's not the Dinnies, ⁓ the Inver. Ben, talk to me about your experience on the Inver and then we'll kind of go to, you know, stones that you might have lifted on that tour.
Ben Bradbury: Yeah, Again...
Rebecca: ⁓ sorry, I mean, Ben or Sven, whichever, whoever wants to talk. I knew I was going to do this at one point in the episode. I knew I was going to do this. Sorry, Sven.
Sven: Yeah.
Ben Bradbury: Hehehehehe
Sven: ⁓ No worries. For me, the Inver stone was actually the third stone during that trip to Scotland because we flew to Edinburgh and then took a rental car from there, drove up to the Highlands and then stayed in Pitlockery. small village, and went to one of my other highlights of that trip which was the Fianna Stone. Yeah.
Rebecca: ⁓ yes.
Sven: So. Given what I just said about biggest mistakes in training for lifting historic or natural stones, up until that point, I was not able to lift historic, natural stones. So coming back two years later, I just hoped I would be stronger than two years ago. But for me, it was a test, honestly. And it's not just that aspect, but
Rebecca: Yeah.
Sven: these stones have been used as tests of strength. So one thing that I wanted to do was to see how I would measure up against it. And I was actually quite happy with it because I think the Fianna stone is a stone that if you stand in front of it looks smaller than you think it would be, but it has a density to it that throws you off a little.
Rebecca: Mm-hmm.
Sven: It provides some good handles though. So I was actually successful lifting the stones, also carrying back to the plinth. So that was a good start into that. We went to Castle Menzies afterwards and I had to go at the Chieftain's Stone, which ⁓ a completely different challenge. Comparatively ⁓ let's say. Also, if you compare it to the other stones, like 115, like the Fianna stone comes at 127, I think. So weight-wise, like I just said, that might be deceiving because it's just smooth. Like it gets compared to glass, ⁓ of glass, and that's actually what it is. ⁓ getting that thing off the floor probably took me 15 minutes. ⁓ that stubbornness. ⁓
Rebecca: Yeah.
Sven: And I was able to get it to just fairly good. I was not completely happy with my attempt, so another reason to come back. But those two stones, if you watched the Stoneland documentary, are just in a setting that is stunning. And being there ⁓ a chilly Sunday morning,
Ben Bradbury: Okay.
Sven: Breathtaking it was it was just breathtaking I was happy with how both stones went so I was fairly Convinced that the Inver stone will go up as well ⁓ I have to say that I think Ben did the way better job than I did Because ⁓ no, so if you look at the two videos ⁓ if fair your lift is more beautiful than mine, ⁓ but that just speaks to
Ben Bradbury: ⁓
Sven: to what I was eluding earlier, which is general strength training is good, but at one point you need to make that transition to the actual stone that you're lifting because weight, there's more to it than weight. A lot of people said that before, like very strong people, like even strongmen athletes struggle with the natural stones and the historic stones, although they're lifting so much more than you would ever be able to possible in the classic lifts. So, happy with the lifts, but there will be ⁓ reckoning with the Inver stone. I want to do it more beautiful the next time.
Rebecca: Yeah, I don't think there's any stone other than the Fiana that's made me cry because ⁓ didn't get it my last attempt and I had to be gracious in ⁓ that what the world was offering me up at that point. And I may never get it, but I will continue to work away ⁓ at to get some bit of air beneath it. And but that It's beautiful. took off, I took off my shoes for that one and walked across the pasture and it was beautiful, dewy. And I mean, it's just, when you think of a stereotypical Scottish photo, that's what it was like for me. so Ben, did you try Fianna or any other stones on that trip or was it just Inver for you?
Ben Bradbury: Yeah, well when I got there and Sven told me he'd been cheating on me and going and playing with other stones before. I ⁓ very happy for him but I was incredibly jealous. ⁓ on that trip, ⁓ of us, Sven, his ⁓ partner, ⁓ wife, son, ⁓ two of his friends had come over as well.
Rebecca: Ha
Ben Bradbury: We all went up and we did the Barevan which I know is one of your favorites as well. just, can't, we have limited time and I can't, I know none of us can put into words how atmospheric the surroundings around the Barevan stone are. That is a special Even if you have no interest in stone lifting, like just go and visit it, because it's amazing. So yeah, then after. Sven did the Dinnie's. my drive home, I thought, well, I'm driving home. might ⁓ well turn a 10 hour trip into a 12 hour trip and visit ⁓ other stones on the way back. So I went to the Fianna Stone and it was just the most glorious morning. That would have been a Wednesday morning. The sun was out for October. It was an incredibly hot day in Scotland. and I was there for a good while. I managed to get it to lap a few times, but I could not stand properly with it. Yeah, ⁓ truly humbled me. I've not told anyone else this, ⁓ but sat there for a good while and I just talked. ⁓ You say I talked to the stone or I just talked out loud. I just ⁓ sat
Rebecca: Mm-hmm.
Ben Bradbury: for a good half an hour afterwards and just talked out my thoughts and talked to the stone and gave it a pat and wished it well and said that I'd be back. that's a, yeah, it's a special place. So I have, there's no ill feeling about the fact that I couldn't lift it. I'm actually, I'm not happy that I couldn't lift it, but I'm satisfied with how it went. And I really look forward to going and
Sven: That is so beautiful.
Rebecca: It is.
Ben Bradbury: Not going and lifting it again, just going and being around it again. I'm looking forward to. then on the way back, I went to the ⁓ stone ⁓ obviously has the standing plinth. ⁓ the keeper of the stone there, I cannot remember his name. ⁓ from London though, kindly let me ⁓ his land. ⁓ had some of his ponies walking around. So I trotted down with my tripod and my... crash mat so I could take care of the stone. And yeah, the Puterach stone again, just so special to be there with that stone plinth. And he told me some of the history of it as well, some of the theories around it. And that was before it was cracked recently. So when you could still lift the Puterach onto the platform, onto the plinth. And I was very lucky, the Monachyle stone was there as well. So I was able to lift the Monachyle and I felt...
Rebecca: ⁓ right, yeah.
Ben Bradbury: I felt I learned my lesson a bit more from the Inver ⁓ The Monachyle's about the same weight as the Inver stone, although different shape, different texture. But I was really happy with my Monachyle lift because I took my time and you don't have anything to lift it onto because you can't lift it onto the plinth. It's far too heavy to on there. ⁓ I just did a standing lift with it to the chest and ⁓ like I'd... satisfied a little bit of dissatisfaction I had with my my Inver lift in terms of ⁓ and being able ⁓ to do it nicely. And again, just a special place to be. They're all they're all so ⁓ I know it's often quoted from Stoneland, but they are just rocks to anyone else. But if if you know, you know, and I know the people that listening to this, they'll they'll appreciate how much I can't put into words. Yeah, they will appreciate how much I can't.
Sven: Goosebumps.
Ben Bradbury: articulate just the meaning of it all profound.
Sven: It's that feeling when you stand at those places you saw so many times in that documentary.
Ben Bradbury: Yeah. And just feeling you're part of a history that goes on, it's so much bigger than you. And you have the privilege of being a little part of it. Not a part that anyone will remember, but you are part of that. You don't have to etch your name into anything, but you've been part of that history is amazing. It's so rewarding. Yeah.
Sven: Ugh.
Rebecca: Yeah.
Sven: Who knows?
Rebecca: So as we wrap up this stone, ⁓ sorry, yeah, go ahead, Sven.
Sven: You know, I do have a martial arts background as well. And in the martial arts, you speak of heritage. You can directly see who's in your line and it goes back to amazing people. Who knows who will remember you when they trace back their heritage. So you will never know. And that's the beautiful thing. ⁓ old school strength about the whole physical culture thing, think. Like Brooks Kubik. Yes, we do it.
Rebecca: Do it. Well, you both have Smash and Tasson, right?
Ben Bradbury: Yeah, we're not affiliated, but go and buy some Smash and Pass stuff because they're great. ⁓
Sven: No. I thought it was the best fit for the interview today.
Rebecca: See ya. It's so good. Like you didn't actually plan this because this is because your death. I thought it was planned because when I when I came on, I thought how are they both wearing smash and pass? That's great. But it is true. You speak to that because imagine those, you know, Ben you sat with the stone for moments. I've cried over the stone. My tears are on that stone. Like just think of the
Sven: No
Ben Bradbury: No.
Sven: No! You Yeah.
Rebecca: stories that have been imprinted there, and the stories that we're bringing into our families as well. we're gonna, as we wrap up this episode, we're gonna talk about imprinting those stories on future generations with fatherhood. But as we wrap up the stone lifting section, is there any stone principles? Because I wanted to go deep dive into kettlebells and the transfer to deadlifts and all of that, but... Okay.
Sven: Hahaha!
Ben Bradbury: We're happy, we're more than happy to come on again and into the weeds on Strong First principles. Like, I'm here for that.
Rebecca: Okay, perfect. Because I did not nerd out nearly enough. But is there just maybe like three things you can kind of say from a Strong First perspective about the stone lifting before we kind of segue out of this chapter?
Sven: HNNNN You
Ben Bradbury: don't mind kicking one off. I a huge skill that is developed through all the Strong First work is tension generation. ⁓ ability to ⁓ tension in your body, not just a brace, ⁓ body tension. And it's weird because I have heard time and time again and experienced myself, people's way into Strong First is often the kettlebell cert because the kettlebell is kind of the flagship tool that Strong First are known for, rightly or wrongly.
Rebecca: Go for it.
Ben Bradbury: People do the kettlebell sir, maybe what level one, level two, the barbell cert. And the body weight sir doesn't get the credit it deserves because often then people do the body weight sir as a kind of, I've done the others, I'll do that as well, unless they have a calisthenics background. And so many people do the body weight cert and then go, I understand the tension generation thing now. It links all the others together and it improves their skills in the other modalities. Because you don't have an external force to work against, they learn how to create that tension in themselves. And then when you then do apply it to an external force, a dumbbell, a barbell, a kettlebell, a sandbag of stone, whatever, you know how to do it so much better, it supercharges it. And I think that's a skill that transfers to any strength and really strong stone lifting. Because the amount of isometric static tension and strength you have to create, just to lift the stone and to keep hold of it is ⁓ fundamental, I'd say.
Rebecca: Yeah. And Sven
Sven: Pavel likes to say if you can't train only two things, train your grip and your core strength. Because that will link everything together. Sometimes we talk about neural facilitators, so certain muscle groups or let's say actions that will engage the nervous system more translating into more strength throughout the body. And what I thought, not necessarily training for stones, but what stone lifting will give you is exactly that. it will give you grip strength and because of the way you have to hold the stone in front of your body it will activate your core and get you strong there. So I think as a training tool actually it fits in very nicely to what we're doing there and we were talking off air Rebecca like the kettlebell, the barbell, the bodyweight it's just a tool. to convey general principles of strength. Like Ben just said in the body weight certification, it's way easier if you have an external form of resistance like a weight, way harder when you have to brace or create tension, not a feedback tension, but a feed forward tension. from like a dead stop, dead lift is completely different than a squat from the squat rack where you get that loaded feeling. before you move, you don't have to create that tension upfront on your own. yeah, use the tool, whatever you have available, try to build some strength. Stones are a awesome tool for it. I mean, it just looks cool and feels awesome to lift a stone. But there are many, I think many schools out there, many strength systems.
Rebecca: Mm-hmm. It does. It absolutely does.
Sven: that can be applicable to stone lifting. Like you mentioned 531, there are others like the conjugate method, Dave Nisbett, caveman Dave man on Instagram, like his programming is awesome. Sean Urquhart, there are so many great lifters. John, I forgot his name. Travel lift stones repeat on Instagram. Yeah, like different approaches to reach the same goal, but they share, I think the same principles.
Rebecca: Mm-hmm. ⁓ Traveler Stones, repeat, yeah.
Sven: and fundamental ideas behind the training.
Rebecca: Yeah, I think for me for sure, because I am an older athlete, but I focused more on my grip and my kind of, I'm going to say core, but I know that that's kind of a controversial word to use, but let's just say that. ⁓ ⁓
Sven: Sadly.
Rebecca: I will be using the McGill 3 method. don't know if you're aware of that, but I always do that every every lift now. And now I've also incorporated band pull-aparts every single day and grip grip work. it been a game changer for me with respect to how I approach weights, I how I approach stones, how I approach even just walking ⁓ and showing up in the world. So thank you for that. As we segue out of this, we did talk about how I loved watching the family aspect the Inver stone Lift and seeing little Liam there and seeing Liam come on and I got to a message from him the other day too, which was so, so sweet. ⁓ can you ⁓ about how, because it's more than just the stones, as you say, it's deeper than that. And so how fatherhood or soon to be ⁓ has influenced how you train and your approach to ⁓ drinks.
Sven: Where to start?
Rebecca: Right? I know we need a chapter two.
Sven: mean, just based on what I'm doing and what Liam sees me doing, he already starts talking about like becoming strong to lift the Dinnie stones or training to get stronger, although he has no idea what that word actually means at this point in time. So one thing that I try to do is to, as best as I can, live up to the meaning of
Rebecca: Mmm.
Sven: of it in as many ways as I can so that he grows up and has a... holistic view or picture of what being strong will actually mean. ⁓ I do like it that he already to the kettlebells and he picks up his little stones. ⁓ ⁓ to share whole journeys with them, like just going to the places ⁓ like mentioned before, like the Barevan Stone. the Fianna Stone, like it's just awesome to be there, whether there is a stone or not. In the end, it would not matter because those places just would be worthwhile visiting for their own sake. And so I think it's another aspect of just creating a bond with, with your kid and showing them what, the world has to offer, whether he's going to lift stones or not. I don't actually care right now. He think it's funny to lift some, some stones or rocks that he finds somewhere outside because I'm doing ⁓ Who knows what his intention will be 10 years down the road, whether he will be still interested in there, but just seeing what strength training
Rebecca: Isn't it?
Sven: had for amazing effects on in my own life. I just hope that I am example enough for him to pick up a physical practice of whatever kind on his own once he's old enough.
Rebecca: Yeah. And Ben, you're soon to be dad, so congratulations. Talk to us about how you're experiencing your own mindset shift.
Ben Bradbury: Thank you. Yeah, so my wife is ⁓ almost 38 weeks pregnant, so literally any moment. When's this gonna air, by the way?
Rebecca: This one will come out early March.
Ben Bradbury: Okay, so I can disclose it here knowing there won't be space to work. We haven't told anybody what we're having, but we know that we're having a little boy. So I didn't have a preference. Any child is a blessing. ⁓ wasn't gunning for one or the other, but ⁓ been on my mind quite a bit. ⁓ ⁓ through some of the talking points that you put out for the podcast got me thinking even more. ⁓
Rebecca: Hahaha
Sven: Ha
Ben Bradbury: had a lot of reflection. My wife is fantastic in doing things purposefully ⁓ through the intention of things and the outcome. So she's, you you want to talk about mentors in terms of building me as a person. I have so much credit to give to my wife and my parents. And I think ⁓ tying some of the other things that we've said about think especially my granddad, my paternal granddad, being such a big figure has felt like strength wise quite a lot to live up to. Although he never, you know, he passed away when I was about 12. So I've never had to stand side by side to him as a man, but there's a, there's the feels like there's a legacy there. This feels like there's a something quite imposing there. You know, we've talked in our family, he left school when he was 13, he went and worked in a copper mill. This was during the 1930s, there was depression. You either didn't eat or he could go to school, but he wouldn't have food. So you had to go and work and he would carry a hundred pound sacks in each hand as just part of his daily work. And I remember him having these huge hands. You talk about the iconic sort of someone that's built like stone lifting. I don't think he ever did any stone lifting, but my God was he built for it. And I think my dad didn't inherit that build. it seems to skip a generation in my family. So like I said, my brother did, I had my father's build. And I think in terms of things I want to pass down, it's probably something that my mum and my dad have passed down to me, or two things. One is the determination. My dad was, sorry, my dog is going absolutely berserk. He is the protector of the household. I'm just going to close the door.
Rebecca: No worries.
Ben Bradbury: Don't let Sigh get in your way. He's a miniature sausage dog, but my God, is he going to protect this house with everything he's got? My parents showed me determination in terms of my dad was the first person in their line to go to university. ⁓ we regard my dad as incredibly intelligent and wise in our family. He's ⁓ Oracle. He will tell you, I'm not smart. just, I had to work much harder than everyone else at university.
Rebecca: Hahaha!
Ben Bradbury: you know, he met people that were effortlessly intelligent, but he just, he just worked harder, and to, match them. ⁓ I think that's a lesson I want to ⁓ my, my son and maybe other children, if, if we're lucky enough, is that determination of you can, you can set your mind to something and it'll take a time. It will take a while, but you can, you can do something if you want to set your mind to it. And the other one is one that definitely did come down through my grandparents and through my parents. And what I talked about earlier is you have a responsibility. You look after the people around you ⁓ and strength is a responsibility and strength comes in many forms. And I really hope that my son will watch me strength train and have an interest in it, but I don't want to set any... ⁓
Rebecca: you
Ben Bradbury: preconceived ideas, you I don't want him to feel he has to do anything. He doesn't have to be involved in strength or stone lifting. But I just want him to use whatever gifts and talents, whatever gifts and talents he has and whatever skills he develops and see the responsibility of them. Not as an onerous thing, not as a burden. It's an incredible gift to have these things and to be able to look after people around you is it makes that bloom. It's the combination of them. It's what they're destined for, I'd say. Yeah.
Rebecca: Yeah. Yeah, I, and this, this ties back nicely to something that Sven was mentioning to us about tying through history through BJJ and like, you won't know your impact and you won't know who is taking inspiration from you. And for me, like I was my first, the first person in my family to go off to university. I've been the first woman to show up in a physical gym. I've been the first to stone lift.
Sven: you
Rebecca: And I've changed years of generational trauma that I have no idea the impact of what it will be three generations from now. But my girls are seeing it. They're getting in the gym and they're strong women. They have never been on a diet in their life and they are in their late teens, which I cannot say for a majority of people that are in my generation. We were on diets probably since the age of 12 and 13. I, and through through me alone, just that one little piece, that one piece of, I don't have to monitor my eating in a way to be small to fit and be palatable. Goodness knows what that's gonna be. I think it's, and as fathers, you have a huge responsibility for not only your sons, but for any daughters that you might have to.
Sven: Yeah.
Rebecca: you know, show up and to show them that attachment. And I can see that with you, Sven, that you have a very strong attachment with your son and it's a beautiful thing and it will pay dividends years from now. This has been an amazing episode and I want a part two, maybe even a part three. And sadly, sadly, we're all parents and we all have things to do, but ⁓ we need to close out in our standard way. ⁓
Sven: Bye.
Rebecca: And that's just three pieces of advice. And I feel like you've been giving me, you know, little snippets of things to think about, but three, three last pieces of advice to take us out of this episode. And Sven, we'll start with you and then you can finish up.
Sven: you Get yourself a challenge. Because you need resistance to build strength, So you need some kind of challenge to see what you're made of. You need something that tests you, that you have to struggle for, that will not only show you what you're made of, but also what you might be able to achieve. Patience. like patient, stubborn patients.
Rebecca: Yes, yes.
Sven: There's that saying like most people overestimate what they can achieve in a month, but underestimate what they can do in a year. I think that is very true. I did a little, I participated in a little poll in the Strong First Forum two years ago, like after Action Report for 2024. And I was like, you know what, let's just start writing and see what happens. And I was blown away with what I did in a year. it didn't feel to me like that. going through that year. I was just aware, looking back what I actually did and it's just incredible. Try to share the experiences with people. Like, whether you do a tour with like-minded people or just take the family with you to lift some stones, whether they might complain or not. At first, because usually it's just beautiful places you will get to, share the experiences you have. It makes them so much more meaningful.
Rebecca: Mm-hmm. Hahaha! ⁓ Thank you. Those are lovely. And Ben?
Ben Bradbury: ⁓ I feel like I just thought of something great and I've forgotten it straight away. ⁓
Rebecca: Welcome to parenting. That is going to be a thought ⁓ through like the entire parenting experience.
Sven: Welcome to my world. ⁓
Ben Bradbury: Yeah Yeah. Well, if we do other episodes, you'll see my slow deterioration as sleep deprivation kicks in until I'm just dribbling and going stone good, lift hard. ⁓ Yeah, I think... In terms of general life, There's something that's come up for me a few times. Setting up my business was really hard. ⁓ I won't go into the depths of it, but I ⁓ tried do everything myself and this was during COVID and it was scary. It was a ⁓ lot responsibility. It was a big ⁓ ask I got myself to a very dark place over the course of a couple of years of ⁓ overworking. I'm thankfully in a much better place with it now. I've had people help me, professional and ⁓ And I've got a great team around me at the gym. And something that comes back time and again, I think it's an African proverb is, if you wanna go quickly, go alone. If you wanna go further, go together. ⁓ And can for a short period of time, if you wanna do something, yeah, if you wanna go quickly, go alone. Absolutely, there are times when...
Rebecca: I'm human.
Ben Bradbury: You're going to have to just rely on yourself and get that thing done. I tried to do it for too long. But in other regards, ⁓ not someone that naturally ⁓ ⁓ coaching, I can step out and I can fill a room. But ⁓ I at the back of the room. I stay in the corner and I don't assume that I have a place at the table. ⁓ I don't ⁓ step But it's every time I've reached out to people, it's been worth it. ⁓ It's amazing the opportunities that come up. I wouldn't be here with you guys if I hadn't, ⁓ and I hadn't talked to each other and I hadn't reached out to him and all those great things that have come from that. So yeah, reach out to other people. You go further if you go together. ⁓ that goes for many aspects. I think a second one would probably be your you'll never regret being kind. can ⁓ blow up in your face and cause more trouble than you think it's worth in ⁓ short term. And you go, God, I was just trying to help. ⁓ but be an inconvenience at times. Being kind can put more work your plate and it ⁓ can ruin plans you might have had for a simple life that day or whatever it is. But in terms of a peace in your you'll never regret being kind. And you should always try and choose it when you have ⁓ opportunity. And it takes reserves sometimes, it's not the easy option. And in terms of the third one, ⁓ it's okay to not always believe in yourself, I think. It doesn't always seem like it. Nowadays, a lot of stuff is to do with almost toxic positivity. It's okay to not believe in yourself at times. I certainly haven't in a lot of my journey and that's all right. It doesn't mean you can't achieve something. It doesn't mean you won't achieve something. And I think sometimes people think you have to be so positive that when they see that chink in the armor, that crack of doubt in themselves, ⁓ everything apart. Whereas if actually you go, no, it's okay. It's okay to not always have unwavering belief in myself, but I'm not gonna stop. I'm gonna keep going. ⁓ then yeah, that's a great, you can turn it into a strength.
Rebecca: I absolutely appreciate these last bits of advice because I didn't know when I first reached out to you and it was about the Inver Stone that it was going to morph into this episode. But your energy that your profiles give out and the exchanges that we've had is true. It's 100 % honest and true and I have, through this, this was not supposed to be a two hour discussion, but it's slowly turning into that. But I have been teary eyed through this. I have been, like my arms are tingling and I have goosebumps pretty much the whole time because I just feel so in alignment with you as ⁓ ⁓ ⁓
Ben Bradbury: Hehehehehe
Rebecca: I don't know if you believe in this kind of woo woo, but when you do have those kind of shivers, you need to listen to them. You need to listen and perk up. And these, there's, it's a strong message that this is the, you are in alignment. And so.
Sven: Yeah, ⁓ yes.
Rebecca: As we finish off this episode, I want to tell you that I am supremely grateful that you coordinated this. did it over three different time zones. Ben was the mastermind ⁓ he corralled us all together. ⁓ just, the laughter, the honesty, ⁓ extreme knowledge, which we didn't even like get into the depths of, but I am. ⁓
Sven: Thank
Rebecca: I slowly became humbled by about Wednesday realizing what I was entering into this conversation. But as you can see, folks, these people are just, they're just people. And, ⁓ and that's what we like to bring to the table is ⁓ that are amazing and ⁓ are just like absolutely humble and good at what they do. And you would never even know it. You would just never even know it. And so if I saw you on the street, I would have no idea that you are all these things. So thank you so much for being here, taking the time and cannot wait to hear about the Dinnie attempt and your further stone escapades in our part two in 2027. So thank you so much and enjoy the rest of your day and we'll be in touch. Take care. Yes.
Ben Bradbury: Yeah.
Sven: Ha ha ha! Thank you, Rebecca. But also thank you for doing that great preparation. Like you said, you took some real time to dive into the weeds. I think, I mean, I haven't been on big shows, but I think nobody did it to the extent you did. it's, yeah, it turned out, like you said, to be an absolutely wonderful conversation. So awesome. Thank you.
Ben Bradbury: Take care, thank you.
Rebecca: Yeah, no. ⁓ ⁓ thank you. ⁓
Ben Bradbury: Yeah, thank you. Yeah, the stuff you sent over, the questions to think about were incredibly thought provoking for me. And like I said, it's helped me actually pull together a lot of stuff that's been probably percolating up in my mind for years. And I've never been able to find the words to express it. I still don't feel I have really, but it's an incredible gift that you've given us to be able to think through some of these things and tie together so many threads that...
Sven: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Ben Bradbury: I now realise have been going on in my life and in my forebears before that that I didn't even know. And yeah, thank you.
Rebecca: Oh my goodness, that is my metric and you've just hit it so checkbox and my heart. So sending you all the love as you venture out into the day and see you on the next episode of the Stone Table podcast. Don't forget to subscribe and like. Take care.
Ben Bradbury: Take care.
Ben Bradbury: you
Rebecca: Sven has lifted the Dinnies Ben is about to lift the Dinnies. They've both had lifts of Inver and other historic stones, which we'll delve into today. So it's not a conversation today about who lifts the biggest stone, but it's how these principles have become practice for them and how the confidence that they've built quietly in the Strong First ⁓ has allowed them to get to the stones in the first place. So Ben, Sven. ⁓ That's a little full welcome to the podcast guys
Ben Bradbury: You
Sven: Thank you very much for having us.
Ben Bradbury: Yeah, thank you.
Rebecca: Well, I'm really, as I said before we got on, I am super nerded out about this conversation. We have a lot to pack in in an hour and a half. and we're going to run the gamut. So the first thing is I always do with every guest is I say, Hey, what are you drinking? Let's warm up a little bit with a chat about that.
Sven: So, because everybody's sick around me, I have hot lemon. And sometime throughout the conversation, I will probably transition to herbal tea.
Rebecca: Sven! Ha ha ha. Excellent. And Ben what we have.
Sven: you
Ben Bradbury: I've got a good old fashioned black coffee, but for ⁓ historic reasons and stuff we might touch on, I've got a rum and shrub, which was one of my granddad's favorite drinks. I haven't gone full Navy rum like he would have done, but for people who don't know shrub, it's an old English alcoholic cordial and it was used when they brought rum over and they smuggled it in in barrels and the barrels would get contaminated and the rum would be...
Sven: you
Ben Bradbury: salty and wouldn't taste good. So they put this in, which was fruity and herby to disguise rum that had gone bad basically.
Rebecca: Wow. Now, yeah, depending on how long we are here, ⁓ I'm at 7am. So I'm drinking my coffee, but I still on my little stone table here have some whiskey to the side in case we do get that deep into this chat. So, and it's a Canadian and it's amazing. I first tried it first last night. And ⁓ for those Canadians listening that haven't tried it and need something,
Sven: you
Rebecca: in place of bourbon, this is a go-to try. A nice Canadian try while we are, our southern neighbors are not sending up alcohol at the moment. So we have to find alternatives. All right. So. This is my first time hosting with two people in a couple of weeks. I'm going to be hosting, think six people at a time. you're going to, you're going to be my, ⁓ test run of how I, yeah, of how I run this. So to start off with, let's get right into Strong First. You're both coaches in that you, I think you're also trainers, but tell us a bit about.
Sven: The guinea pigs.
Rebecca: about yourself and how you came into the Strong First system and then we'll talk about Strong First itself, Sven.
Sven: So basically, just by pure accident, I started training when I was 18, so roughly 20 years ago, basic stuff like dumbbells at home, pull up bar in the garden, nothing that fancy. ⁓ ⁓ day a friend of mine asked me whether I would like to join his training group in the afternoon. he said ⁓ might be interested in what they're doing there and it's completely different from what I'm used to it's like, okay You know what? Let's just give this a try and at that time it was a circuit training like high intensity stuff new in Germany at that point but what really peaked my interest was that cannonball with the handle sitting on the floor and I hadn't seen something like that at that time and for whatever reason after the training, stuck with me. friend of mine who was there as well decided to get one for himself together with a book by Pavel Tatsulin. And that basically led me down the rabbit hole. So that was in October of 2010. I got my own pair of kettlebells in February of 2011. And then one thing led to another.
Rebecca: Mm-hmm.
Sven: It took a little longer for me to really get into kettlebells because I was more into barbell training at that time. But the one thing the kettlebell really shines for me in every situation is availability. So you can take it with you wherever you go. And I hit situations where I wanted to keep training, but there was no gym around. the kettlebell popped up in my mind again. And that was what ultimately led me to take my very first certification in 2016.
Rebecca: Wow. And are you a physiotherapist as well?
Sven: Yes, I finished physical school last year.
Rebecca: Okay. Okay, well, congratulations with that. So we have a wealth of a knowledge here. And Ben.
Sven: Thank you.
Ben Bradbury: Yeah, so I started training ⁓ in my sort of late teens. ⁓ My way in was ⁓ sister's boyfriend at the time was in the British army and so he would just take me out on runs ⁓ ⁓ there's one thing they do in the army, ⁓ cover ground and lots of it. So I was humbled but kind of interested and he just gave me some ⁓ and I just started training in the gym. Loved it. very caught up with high intensity training, similar to, similar to Sven. So everything was ⁓ much as I could do, in as short a time as I could do it. You know, I didn't feel like I was going to puke at the end of a session, it maybe wasn't it worth it. wasn't worth it. Not very wise training, but, ⁓ for someone in their sort of late teens, early twenties, you can bounce back from pretty much anything. And then I trained as a coach. I've a coach for about 16 years now. And about 14 years ago, I just felt I wanted to learn more. I just felt I'd done my PT qualification, but ⁓ it was ⁓ And I just I was trying to read as many books I could lay my hands on. I'd gone through some of the athletic training books with Mike Boyle stuff and found it really interesting. But and a friend who ⁓ is osteopath just recommended, I think you should look into these guys. ⁓ I think you should look into this organization called Strong First. I think you'd really like it. yeah, ⁓ looked into it. loved it straight away, what I saw. Got myself some kettlebells and started training for my first ⁓ cert, which ⁓ 2014.
Rebecca: And you also own a gym, correct?
Ben Bradbury: Yeah, so I own, I've been coaching for mostly one-to-one for about 16 years. And then about five years ago, I opened up a gym where we do all small group training. So it's all coach led. It's all very structured. It's all general population. know, I working with quote unquote normal people. Although every and then you get something amazing thrown your way. So I was very lucky. I had a friend come and what became a good friend who wanted to set a new world record, which he did. He's in the Guinness Book of Records now. He was the first man to ⁓ ⁓ around the British Isles, which had been done in pairs and fours, but with one manpower, it's very hard to beat the tides and the weather. And yeah, he managed to do it. It took two attempts, it spanned many years, but yeah, ⁓ mostly I teach population. And then from an athletic background myself. I'm a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu black belt, so I started Jiu-Jitsu before I found Strong First, before I became a coach even. So that predates it all. And just found the combination between the Strong First work and the Jiu-Jitsu really, really complemented really well.
Rebecca: Yeah, like you've hit on something really important for me is the normalcy ⁓ the clientele that both of you have, ⁓ those are the type of people that I like to draw to the Stone Table podcast. Obviously, the stone lifting world is made up of extremes, right? You have the professionals and you have the person that's picking up the stone the first time. ⁓ what really resonates with me is like bringing everybody to the table, those middle normal people that aren't necessarily going to be lifting a 500-pound stone any day but but are brought there simply because of the practice. I think you're saying is ⁓ strength, be strong, be kind, be what is it again? ⁓
Ben Bradbury: ⁓ you've really done your homework. My, my, my gym's motto that we have up is be strong, be capable, be kind.
Sven: Yeah
Rebecca: It's that simple. And I think those principles overlay with The Stone Table stone lifting for me in general. ⁓ between the two of you, we have collectively probably about 40 plus years of experience that we're going to delve into today. ⁓ ⁓ think what so I'm a bit, I'm slightly biased, obviously, I'm going to express that to folks right now about my Strong First affiliations. ⁓
Sven: Hahaha
Rebecca: I'm not a coach. I'm not anything like that. But I was in between coaches last year and I decided for a goal that I was going to put my whole into my whole effort into competing in Highland games last summer. ⁓ And met John Odin online ⁓ and been reading and ⁓ watching number of his videos and I follow him. ⁓ And there was something that just resonated within me because he's not a big guy. He, although he is a big guy in the strength world, but he isn't a big, he looks completely normal and I'm normal. And I thought, okay, I'm gonna commit to what he's dishing out and I'm going to follow and do what he is prescribed.
Sven: Yeah.
Rebecca: programmed myself based on what I was learning online through Strong First principles, and I ended up being national champion for the Highland Games in Canada last year. So something works in the program, and I didn't realize your affiliations until I'd already invited you. So no bias whatsoever, but let's delve into it. What is Strong First? Like, how would you describe Strong First in simple terms? And we'll start with you.
Sven: you
Ben Bradbury: You
Rebecca: Ben and then you can build on Sven.
Ben Bradbury: Yeah. So in really simple terms, it's a training organization. So it's an organization that provides education for anybody that wants to come and learn. It's not just for coaches. A lot of certs that you go to, the vast majority of people are not coaches. are people that have just loved training and want to find out more and want to learn how to do it better. So they provide technical coaching on specific tools. Most certs will be set up around a certain tool. So they have their kettlebell cert. which is the SFG. They have a barbell certification and they have a body weight one. keep the tools simple. ⁓ mostly just those three, but is programming and ⁓ philosophy around strength training as well. And a lot of that just ⁓ comes by osmosis, especially the ⁓ ethos. you'll go along to these certs and you're on the surface just learning how to use one tool. But what they're really teaching you is how to apply your strength. to anything that you want to. And then they have special courses, so things like strong endurance and plan strong, which delve really deep into the science and the particulars of programming for certain outcomes. But you can also pick up some of Pavel's books, which have just distilled all of those. And they make it so simple that you just go, ⁓ I'm just going to grab this kettlebell. I'm going to do 10 sets of 10 swings. I'm going to do 10 get ups. And I'm going to keep doing it. And stuff like that just makes it really accessible.
Sven: ⁓ mean, I think ⁓ very important point ⁓ repeat ⁓ is Ben about educational side of things. ⁓ Like we see as a school. So our goal is to teach people to get strong or stronger, depending on the person. ⁓ Strength for us is a skill, something that you can learn. You're not born strong or weak. You are born with certain capabilities ⁓ and in the end, it's just a matter of having right ⁓ let's say, to dive into those abilities and to really nurture them. We use the physical side of things, strength training, barbells, kettlebells, bodyweight. But ultimately, as one of our instructors said, like, it's the gateway to all the manifold forms that strength actually has. One of the famous, my famous quotes that ⁓ Jones, our former director of education made was, ⁓ ⁓ of the strongest people that he met in his life never lifted a single weight. And I think if you are open enough to get into strength training from that perspective, you will realize like most people who just go to the gym and train every day that it actually has benefits and effects that surpass the physical by degrees. ultimately it is probably
Rebecca: Hmm.
Sven: a program of self-improvement that is disguised as strength training. ⁓
Rebecca: And that is another aspect of this program that I like. And you can really sense this from John in the interactions with John is that it's a psychological spiritual journey as well. But we'll get into that in a little bit later. I want to delve into something. I've done five, three, one. I've done a West side. I've done any type of range. Why? Amongst all of the things you could have chosen, all of the programming you could have why StrongFirst?
Sven: For me, like I said in the beginning, it was actually the tool. So I did not choose a specific program to start with. I was just hooked by the kettlebell. And if somebody read Enter the Kettlebell, which I think was released sometime around 2008, Pavel features so many of the old strongmen in there. George Hackenschmidt, Sieg Klein, and all those amazing stories that go along with them. So for me, actually, it was that aspect.
Rebecca: Mm-hmm.
Sven: And then I tried different programs, but at that time I was just... Well, a little too... How do you want to say that? I didn't get what the programs were about because I always try to make them better by what I knew to be good. it took probably around 10 years for me to realize like, okay, just do the program as an outline. It will work. But I think in the end, it is just an option for you to choose and pick from because...
Ben Bradbury: You
Rebecca: Ha ha! Mm-hmm.
Sven: All the good programs out there that work actually will adhere to a certain amount of principles that stand behind the program. ⁓ once those ⁓ there, ⁓ really doesn't matter. And programs like 5.3.1 or Starting Strength, I'm blanking on the name. Who wrote it? Mark Ripto. Yeah, if a program like that is out there for
Rebecca: Mm-hmm.
Ben Bradbury: RIP it's home.
Rebecca: RIPTO. Yeah, RIPTO.
Sven: I don't know how many decades you know that it will work. I think a crucial thing about a program is pick one and then stay with it. That was one of my big lessons. Finish the program because it will teach you something about yourself. Whether the program will work or not is not beyond the point, but it's not all there is to it because you will...
Rebecca: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Sven: You will learn about your own body, about your rhythm of adaptation, about the optimal training frequency and stuff like that. But you need something that gives you the opportunity to judge that, to get a measurement. And then you can continue different programs from there on.
Rebecca: Ben, any thoughts on that or ⁓ piggybacking on what Ben or Sven said?
Ben Bradbury: Similar to Sven, I don't think I realized ⁓ the gold I'd struck when I signed up with Strong First for the first time. ⁓ made a really smart choice by dumb luck. I think I was drawn in because I saw this cert that had standards. ⁓ With of these Strong First certs, they have a standard that you have to hit. There is testing as part of it. ⁓
Sven: you
Ben Bradbury: I probably like that for the wrong kind of reasons to start off with or what I would now consider to be the wrong reasons. They've always said they're not, what's the phrase? They are elite, they're not elitist. And what I found was lovely when I actually have been along to most of these, all of these certs is some people will qualify on that weekend when they go along, whether it's the barbell, bodyweight, kettlebell. Some people will walk away with that certification of you achieved. Some people won't get it on the day, but that doesn't mean they failed the cert. And brilliant about this First community is depending on the cert, they're given ⁓ kind three to six months afterwards to try and hit those standards and they can video submit. But the people that are on that cert with them will help them every step of the way as much as they lean on them. So you can reach out to the master instructor that was leading your cert who probably lives on a different continent. and they will make time. And I can say this with confidence because I've met so many of them. These are busy people. They're running their own lives. They're going around the globe teaching as well as family and their own businesses and whatever. They will still make time to help the people on their team pass that cert. I went into it because I liked the intensity of it. I liked, there's a standard and I have to do these things. And it gave me something to work towards. But then once I got in there, it's been an education in terms of there's so much more to it than that. And it's helped me find a way to calm down that part of me that just wants to go hell for leather all the time. And the thing that blew me away, day one, stepped into the room. Back in that time when I did it, there was a few of the testing standards they made you do straight away. So you...
Rebecca: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Ben Bradbury: signed your name on the enrollment thing. And then they went, there's a pull-up bar, do five strict pull-ups, let's see if you can do it. They don't do that now, but straight out the gate, was like, woo. But the thing that blew me away was I opened up the manual and the first page is a code of conduct. This is how we expect you to behave. ⁓ they've pared it down to just three now, but there was, I think there was five. ⁓ it is things like, I'm a student of strength. I'm a quiet professional. strength has a greater purpose. And the one that I really liked, which I don't know why they changed it, but the way I carry my strength matters. And all of those just resonated with me from what I'd seen in martial arts as well. There is a responsibility to being strong in whatever way you are strong. We're talking about physical strength. In martial arts, it's your technical prowess, your ability to fight. But it's something that I'd seen in martial arts and it's something that my grandparents had taught my dad and my dad had passed on to me that you have a responsibility to look after people around you and being strong in whatever way is you have a responsibility with it. Strength is a responsibility and that could be physical strength, that could be intellectual strength or financial, whatever it might be. And I didn't understand all of that and I haven't... I still haven't put all the pieces together. Actually prepping for this podcast helped me draw some of those pieces together. And with my imminent, I'm about to become a father for the first time, has just, there's a lot of stuff that is now coming together in my head. But even though I didn't understand it all then, the first time I opened that manual and I saw there was a code of conduct, it just flicked a switch in me. And I went, ⁓ I'm home. This is place for me.
Rebecca: So when you were telling, I didn't go as deep as to look at the code of conduct, but when you were speaking them, like I got shivers because they resonate with me ⁓ what I'm trying to bring to the stone community. And I think the one where I think it was the second one that you said is that quiet, that quiet, like, even though we are having a conversation here and we are, ⁓
Ben Bradbury: Okay.
Rebecca: speaking about it, there's a quiet strength and it's those quiet individuals within this community that are completely humbling to me. They may not be on social media, they may not be putting up their posts, but they're quietly working away in the background, demonstrating their strength, whether it be internally, mentally, spiritually. and lifting three, four, 500 pound objects. But they're just quietly doing it. And want to highlight those and that the code just resonates with ⁓ the principles The Stone Table for me.
Ben Bradbury: Yeah, and it was something that struck me. I also like the phrase, I don't know who said it first, but if you're good, you'll tell everyone. If you're great, they'll tell you. And I've met some people, even in Strong First, and they don't tend to stick around, but I've met some people that they wanna show off at those certs. They wanna win the cert, and they wanna prove how great they are. And they'll go around telling everybody at the cert. They just...
Rebecca: Yeah.
Ben Bradbury: tend to filter themselves out because that's not, it's not, ⁓ they don't find a receptive audience for it there. Whereas so many people in Strong First are incredibly humble and they can do, you don't know who you're stood next to and how incredible they can do because they don't need to make a big deal about it. They're there to help you. They want to help you at that cert and they'll never blow their own trumpet. And then,
Rebecca: Hmm.
Ben Bradbury: quite often you'll go back from a certain, you'll go, ⁓ look that person up, who that was. And ⁓ my God, I didn't realize, you know, who I was in the presence of. And it encourages you and it really inspires you to carry that into your everyday. You know, you don't need to tell everybody what you do. You don't need to show off, but what you can do is you can use it to help them. And yeah, that's a lot more rewarding.
Rebecca: Well, and that's how this podcast between us came about because just resonated with your energies and were talking about the Inver stone ⁓ I just resonated. But then when I started to prepare, ⁓ started to actually panic slightly because I'm, I realized who I speaking to and how much background you have and knowledge you have. And I thought I'm out of my depth, ⁓ but you ⁓ it's But that in itself, I know you're gonna walk me along as we go through further when we talk about strength principles, but there is something to that. So obviously Strong First kind of brought you together. Can you talk about how you first connected? Like where did that come in?
Sven: I do remember very clearly. Yeah, that was in 2017. I was taking the Barber certification at that time in England. And just to come back to that whole quiet professional topic here, that is exactly what Ben exemplified at that certification because I was like, wow, like, you know that the the assistants who
Rebecca: you
Sven: participate at the certifications have to do the testing themselves the day before. So when you participate, you know that they went through the same thing that you will have to go through during the weekend. So it's like, how do you say? Walking the talk? There is a there's a saying so they just they're not there because they want to be there. They actually earned that spot to to assist and then just his like
Rebecca: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Sven: His coaching eye, the cues he gave, I was really impressed by him and I think we kept contact ever since.
Rebecca: Yeah, and so, okay, and you've kept in contact. So you've been kind of like, was there a mentorship or was it just like a friendship and you're like, how would you coin that? Because how did it lead to a stone lifting tour?
Ben Bradbury: So it, yeah, basically, yeah. So we just hit it off from that cert. And then I don't think we were communicating that regularly, but Sven came over for a couple of other certs. So Sven came over and assisted at, was it one of the SFGs that you came over to assist on as well?
Sven: immediate friendship. Sorry. No. I came over for a kettlebell certification. You came over to Germany for a little seminar I organized here. I came back to England, think, to other certifications the following year. not that close contact, but we saw each other regularly.
Ben Bradbury: And then was probably ⁓ ⁓ think it was 2022, ⁓ started just incorporating some sandbag training into what I was doing. ⁓ I was posting it online and Sven messaged me and said, hey, look, Sven had already, I think Sven had already lifted the Dinnies for the first time by then. And ⁓ Sven dropped a message and just said, hey, ⁓ you seem be lifting these sandbags.
Rebecca: right.
Ben Bradbury: I'm thinking of doing a stone lifting tour next year. Would you like to join me? And I bricked it and suddenly panicked and went, ⁓ no, somebody's thought I can do something I can't here. I've overrepresented myself. yeah, then that led more into mentorship then because then I asked if Sven would start ⁓ coaching, ⁓ help write for to get ready for the stone lifting. So then it became a bit more mentorship and that just led us to interacting more, a better friendship. We started messaging more around the mentorship. We would just then talk more often and voice note each other and FaceTime each other. And yeah, it drew us closer through that.
Rebecca: And so Sven, let's talk about the programming then. We're not, we will get into more details when we're talking about like Inver stone and that, like just as a base programming, did you use Strong First principles ⁓ were kind of giving Ben advice on how to prep for that stone tour?
Sven: basically just told him what I had been doing to lift the Dinnie stones. And I was like, you know, this is the outline I used. Why won't you give it a try, see how it works, and then we can adjust based how things go. And I think I made some smaller adjustments based on my own program, ⁓ like regarding the training for the Dinnie stones themselves, I think we pretty much did a similar approach. ⁓
Rebecca: Okay, and if you haven't read Sven's articles on the Dinnie Stone prep, it's a and I'm going to provide links because they go through, I think it's the most specific explanation of ⁓ Dinnie lift prep that I've seen ⁓ any social media or ⁓ ones.
Sven: Yeah. Hahaha
Rebecca: I don't want to get into the details of the articles because they're fantastic, but let's talk about just the general arc that you went through for the Dinnies, because there was some general strength and then there was specificity. Let's talk about that.
Sven: So... When I wanted, when I set my eyes on lifting the Dinnie stones, I never lifted anything that was even close to them in weight before. So to, reach 300 kilos in a rack pull, because you need to, how did I say, proof worthy for an attempt to show that you're capable. And ⁓ think more than anything else that you're not going to hurt yourself at the attempt. You have to, to, to provide. proof of a lift of at least 300 kilos. And I think they leave it open to you to pick whatever you want to do. I mean, a rack pull, so an elevated deadlift is, yeah, the obvious choice. I reached out to another Strong First instructor who became a very good friend by then, Jason Marshall from Texas, because he lifted the Dinnie Stones in 2019. He has a extensive background in power lifting, both as an athlete and as a coach. I saw him training for the stones and I just asked him, you know, how do I get best go about that? And I... followed a very simple standard power cycle of linear progression for the rack pulls. came to a point where I plateaued and no matter how hard I tried, it just wouldn't move the way I wanted it to go. We decided to basically change gears and go back to that more foundational aspect of strength training again, ⁓ a little different impulse to the body and then transitioned back half a year later to the rack pulls and trying to go beyond that plateau I reached in the first place. And that worked just great. So as you said, you can read all the details in the article, but it was nothing super fancy. were basic programs just done over a certain period of time. I reached the 300 kilo rack pull and then transitioned to the replica pins.
Rebecca: Mm-hmm.
Sven: So making things a little bit more specific in regards of the actual lift, but keeping very basic training or programming principles in the background. So not going super fancy, maxing out every day, just getting used to the feel of two independent weights from two different heights versus a barbell that you pull straight from an elevated position. Yeah, that was basically it. It just was a matter of time. I had one minor change happening when I started physiotherapy school because I had no access to it gym any longer. Meaning I was reliant on mainly kettlebells and the pins. But ultimately that worked out just great.
Rebecca: And so why did you choose to lift the Dinnies anyway? I mean, Ben, you've kind of been forced and not forced, but coerced into coerced into stone by Sven by this point, but ⁓ right?
Ben Bradbury: You Happily so.
Rebecca: But why, why Sven Exactly. ⁓
Sven: If I could tell you, is the same, believe me, it's the same feeling as with the kettlebell. Why that freaking kettlebell? I cannot tell you. It just resonated to something within me. When I saw Jason do those lifts, I mean, if you look at just, it's two blocks of weight that he pulls with loud, aggressive music in the background. Most people would just like, what the hell is that guy doing? But I was like, why is he doing that? I was interested in why he would train specifically that way. He did and then he told me about the Dinnie Stones and then I watched big surprise, Stone Land. And I was just hooked. mean, the atmosphere of that documentary, the scenes, the shots, it is just astonishing. And I mean, they build it up in a fantastic way so that it peaks with the Dinnie Stones having all those people there together, Jack and Stevie Shanks. It drives a tear into my eyes every time I watch that scene.
Rebecca: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I
Sven: So I cannot tell you, it just, I had to.
Rebecca: It's the same. It's the same. have no idea why I've chose stones myself. It's just a longing there. But Ben, so you were kind of lovingly coerced into this journey. But you you did speak about something both in our messages and prep for this conversation, but just earlier is that you said, ⁓ like, I don't think I'm prepared for this because there's kind of this mentality that it's a big boy kind of sport practice. It's for a certain, like the way you see on Instagram, it's just a lot of bigger people maybe doing it. And like, I definitely do not ⁓ fit traditional body type But let's talk about Instagram might have been misleading slightly in that. And can we unpack that a little bit more?
Ben Bradbury: Yeah, I'm not someone who believes in themselves easily. I will ⁓ take long time to convince myself that I can ⁓ do And even once I've done it, I'll go, that was a fluke. Every belt I've got in Jiu Jitsu, I've gone, ⁓ maybe it's because I've been in the background for enough years and they feel sorry for me. I will talk myself out of confidence very easily. And stones. ⁓ I mean, before Instagram, before social media, World's Strongest Man was on every year. In England, it's shown at Christmas time. They film it in the summer or whatever, but it's always shown at Christmas time. It's a tradition here. So I grew up every year. We all sat down and we'd watch Strongman. My mom loves it. My dad loves it. Even though they, you don't have to know what's going on because it's so visual. You just see these huge, huge guys throwing around huge things. And so I'd watch them do the Atlas stones every year. And then, you know, some of the early years they would, they used the Husaffel stone early on the year it was in Iceland. And then I think they made their own one. I remember in the early nineties, they had something called the Africa stone, which was the shape of the continent of Africa, basically a Husserwell kind of knockoff that they could take with them. And you just go, well, that's for those gorilla men. That's for those huge dudes. That's...
Rebecca: Mm-hmm.
Ben Bradbury: It's amazing to watch and I love watching it and it's brilliant. And you'll take it with you, but I never thought it was for me. So then a lot of my training, early training even, I think subconsciously was built around, I'm not the biggest guy. I'm the youngest of five, ⁓ boys, one girl. I'm not even the tallest out of ⁓ siblings. ⁓ my sister, I'm the shortest one. ⁓ My granddad was a big dude. He was like sort of 6'2". Some people just remind you of animals. He was a bear. He just, you looked at him and you went, that dude's a bear. He's just, I know that has some connotations in some other, in some other communities. I don't mean it that way, just in physical build and stature. ⁓ And brother inherited his build. I didn't.
Rebecca: you
Sven: you
Ben Bradbury: I inherited my dad's build and we're just, you know, I'm just under five, 10. I'm not, not a big guy. The heaviest I've been is about 84 kilos. Most of my jiu jitsu, competed at a lightweight, so down at 74 or something like that. So I think even my early training was, you know, I can't lift those big things, but what I can do is have a huge work capacity. And that's why I think I was drawn to the high intensity stuff when I was younger. guy that I went out running with who was in the British army that you could just keep going and going. I could hang with him for the first couple of kilometers ⁓ then he was like a machine. And I just thought, ⁓ it'd good to be like a machine. Early on in Jiu-Jitsu, that's what I could do. I couldn't people. I couldn't out-size people. But if I could just draw them into deep waters and make them tired, ⁓ then maybe could get the advantage. If I could survive long enough for them to tire themselves out, I could win. ⁓ But gradually, through Strong First especially, I just realized strength is there for everybody and everybody can get stronger. And then I think I'd used sandbags for conditioning stuff early on. I was at university, I had a horrible little dingy ⁓ gym and I'd, used to make my own sandbags because it was, you couldn't buy them then. So I'd get army kit bags and stuff them through the sand and they'd burst after about three uses and you'd just be pouring sand all over the place. But I used to use them for carries for distance, for conditioning. ⁓ I think then seeing ⁓ Cerberus ones at Strongman events and then realizing I could buy them and really realizing I could buy them in, you know, humble sizes, I just got myself a ⁓ one and thought I'll start with this one. And then I found every... ⁓ three to six months, I was like, I think I'm ready for the next size bag. And I'd order the next one and I'd order the next one. And that gave me an unintimidating way into stone lifting because they're not as intimidating as a stone and you can ⁓ them whatever weight you want. So then when Sven saw me lifting them and invited me on the stone tour, that's when I suddenly had that feeling of, ⁓ I don't know if I'm ready for that, but I also had this thing, the child in me that used to watch World, or still does watch World's Strongest Man, went, ⁓ I can fulfill a, you know, fulfill a childhood yearning to go out and maybe do some of that.
Rebecca: Yeah, like I, and I've been trying to think to something you said when you first launched into this that I kind of want to share is, and I think this comes out in the Strong First because just more than physical strength. But to be honest, as been going on my own stone journey, ⁓ and strongman journeys, even Highland but ⁓ but a less But every time I achieved one of those sandbags, as you say, like when you achieve that, I actually get, I used to get very anxious and I wouldn't accept the that I did it. Like I would, I would almost reject the success. And so for me, For people that don't understand, everybody's carrying their own journey in this and it might look outwardly like it's somebody trying to lift 400 pounds. But for me, the journey has been very psychological in accepting success, accepting that I belong in a community, even if I'm not lifting the Husaffel ⁓ ⁓ can gladly say that I've worked on this for lifetime. but mainly specifically for the last 10 years. And I can now accept, hey, I lifted that. I can be proud of that. I don't necessarily have to boast and it outwardly, you know, it may look like a woman just lifting a stone, but I've lifted myself. And I think that's what Strong First does is that it lifts the people more in strength. And so I wonder, What could you, through your gym, through your community, what can we do as these experienced lifters to signal an approachability without kind of lowering the standards, signaling that it's okay to lift that first 50-pound stone, and you did it, and look at success that way?
Sven: I think two things mainly. Like what is talking about your own journey, like you just said. I think it was Jocko Willink who talked about that. ⁓ I just love him for several reasons. He just resonates with me. ⁓ ⁓ was on an interview and he basically said,
Rebecca: Yeah.
Sven: You know, the reason I am lifting heavier weight than you is just because I've been doing that longer than you are. So everybody starts somewhere and there might be people who are naturally more gifted, let's say, like having a built and start at a different place, but nevertheless you have to start somewhere. And I think that's the second point. People should realize that strength training is scalable. Like Ben said, Strong First has standards, technical standards. performance standards. But at the same time, we try to give all of our students their baseline. This is where you want to go. Okay, let's see where you're at, because this will allow us to give you a program that will get you there. It's a matter of time and I will not be able to tell you today how long it will take, but stick to the program. Trust the process. There will be ups and downs, but
Rebecca: Mm-hmm.
Sven: It's not rocket science and that is reachable. So many people out there showed it. If you are... a little stubborn because I think it takes stubbornness to do the things we like to do like lifting rocks and getting bloody forearms and stuff like that. But you will be able to reach it. So many people showed it. People who when you saw them the first time never thought they would be able to reach that. And it is just impressive to ⁓
Rebecca: Yes.
Sven: to have those stories out there. I think talking about it, sharing your own experiences and showing people that you just need to find the right starting point for you.
Rebecca: And as Jocko says, good. Right? Good.
Sven: Yeah, good. If it hurts in the beginning, if it's uncomfortable, good. You have to go through that.
Rebecca: Good. Yeah. And then what are your thoughts? Because obviously with your gym, you have an audience that you have to emulate this for, right?
Ben Bradbury: Yeah. Yeah. So again, in some regards, I feel, I feel like I'm out of my depth. But what you said resonates cause I, cause I'm on my own journey with it. And so I feel like, who am I to say how this should be done, how the community should conduct themselves, how other people should do that. But I know in my gym, it starts with the coaches. So
Rebecca: Mm-hmm.
Ben Bradbury: whenever I onboard a new coach, we sit down and I go through specific things with them saying, like, there are certain ways we want to, there is a certain community we want to foster. Like as a coach, you're not here to show off. You don't use demos as a chance to show how much you can lift. It's about them. And we talk about celebrating all strength achievements. You know, if someone comes in and they grab a 40 kilo kettlebell and press that, that's impressive. is standout impressive. Of course it is. but there could be someone that you've been training for six months and they press the eight kilo kettlebell. And for them, that's as big a milestone as pressing the 40. And as coaches, we need to celebrate that as much. We can't be biased in what we celebrate. And it takes time to build that kind of community, that kind of ethos. But we try and weave it into everything we do. So,
Rebecca: Mm-hmm.
Ben Bradbury: We have our be strong, be capable, be kind, just subtly put a couple of places. We don't like, you know, shout it at the beginning of every class. You know, it's there, but it's in the background. ⁓ have an ⁓ version of that, which sets out our kind of goal as a gym, just by the front door. ⁓ in reception, while they're putting their shoes on and off every now and then, I'll see someone kind of reading through it. But again, we don't... ⁓ we don't draw attention to it. We have talk test posters around the gym. So the talk test we might get onto it is a Strong First, something used in Strong First. It's not uniquely created by Strong First, but it's ⁓ a they use to gauge recovery, especially with some of the strong endurance protocols. ⁓ And part of is, can you speak comfortably enough to not add extra breaths where there aren't punctuation points in a sentence? And, you know, Pavel says you could give your name and address. You could just try and speak it out. But I thought it'd be nice if we have some good quotes around the gym. So I've printed out these quotes that I have around the gym. And again, we don't draw attention to them, but they're all woven with that idea of, you know, strength is unique to each individual. And there's one that I have up in the gym, which I almost feel a little bit of a fraud for having up. And it's a Pavel quote that just says, you If you think you're only strong because you can lift a certain number, whatever that number is, you're gonna feel pretty weak most of the time. Strength isn't a data point, it's an attitude. And I find myself just in between sets sometimes wandering over and looking at that. And I still, I feel like I understand it and I don't. I feel like I try and live it and I don't. So I am still trying to internalize that. But I understand it ⁓ and I don't at the same time.
Rebecca: Like you can't see it through the lens, but like you've made a girl weepy over here because like I, I would say if I saw that in your gym, I would so resonate because isn't that the struggle? Like isn't that the lifelong journey is figuring out that that quote. And I think this segues nicely into what I read, because we're going to get into the stone portion and how Strong First like now we're into the meat of the depth of this discussion. But it really highlights to me what was going through your brain, Sven, when you were lifting those Dinnie stones. Because what I read is that you had tried it once and the mat was a little soft or the ground was soft and you weren't used to that because that's not how you were training. And you knew that you had to go into a second time and that was going to be it. Like, how does how did that prep? How did that Dinnie stone teach you about yourself? So let's dig into the here of that very moment of lifting the Dinnie stones because you mentally knew like because everybody's going to go and read your article after this. This is like a requirement after watching this podcast, ⁓ you'll
Ben Bradbury: Don't just read that one. He's written other fantastic articles as well. Look, go on Strong First, search for Sven. There are several, I recommend every single one.
Rebecca: They are so good. ⁓ But let's talk about that. Let's talk about that mindset because we've all been there.
Sven: Thank you. Where to start? I am somebody who likes to be prepared. So if there's something coming up, I want to have a little extra in the tank, just in case. Because you never know. I'm not sure who coined the phrases, but there is known unknowns and unknown unknowns. There are things you might know that you know that might happen and you always have to keep in the back of your head. There are certain things that will just take you by surprise, no matter how well prepared you are. So no, no matter what I do when let's speaking of like strength goals, I always try to have a little more in the tank for the, actual test, let's say, then I would have to show. And I approached the Dinnie stones basically the exact same way. ⁓ ⁓ goal was to lift five to 10 % more weight in training. than the stones actual weight would be. Also, reducing the amount of warm-up sets I would take so that I'd be ready to go in cold turkey because for example that what Jason Marshall had to do. Like it was a cold rainy, think November day and he was like driving to Potarch came out of the car and like, okay, here are the stones go. It was like, you never know what might happen. So they tell you, you can bring equipment for warm-up, but
Rebecca: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Sven: I mean, we were flying to Scotland, good chance getting any warm up equipment worth bearing the name you ⁓ a flight. ⁓ tried to prepare for exactly that scenario. And ⁓ was actually quite happy because the ⁓ before I went to Scotland, I lifted like 5 % more than the Dinnie Stones ⁓ weigh and it went super well. I was like, ⁓ got that. and On the day I was the last one to arrive actually, like I was 15 minutes early, but everybody was already there and they were starting lifting. And I was like, the German being there for the last one to arrive, like what's going on? And then I saw, I saw lifter after lifter doing their first attempt and nobody was getting the stones. And like,
Rebecca: you
Ben Bradbury: You
Sven: I'm not sure if you know that feeling, but when you have a good preparation and you're confident, you're like, ⁓ looks like I'm the first one today to lift the Dinnie stones. So I approached the stones and Brett Nicol gave me some good pointers again. And I did not realize the mats So whenever I was watching somebody lift the stones, for whatever reason, I did not pay attention to that part.
Rebecca: You
Sven: the mats I had in the gym I was training at, they were like solid. So when I started positioning myself in the setup and tried to start and lift the weights, the weights would not come up, but I would sink down. I was like, what the hell is going on here? This is not the way I envisioned it to go. And I kept pushing and pushing and pushing, lost balance and failed my ⁓
Rebecca: Yeah.
Sven: What I did not see at that moment was my back then girlfriend sitting on the side, actually starting to cry because she feared I would not be able to lift the stones. Probably a good thing because that would have completely got me out of ⁓ up here. I think what helped me ⁓
Rebecca: Yeah. ⁓
Sven: get the second attempt was actually Jason Marshall because I told him hey I have my attempt it's going to be I think it was a Tuesday at 4 or 3 p.m. in the afternoon I'm not sure what time is that in Texas would you be available for a video call I want you to have to be a part of this since you were such a big part of my preparation ⁓ ⁓ me ⁓ could take the phone, speak a little to Jason. He was like, you know what, just make a few adjustments. I was looking down instead of up little things, but that just gave me the, the conviction again, like, okay, you, you actually got this, just go back and do what you did in your training all the time. And, things will work out. And it did, it did. But I think the crucial part for me, the crucial takeaway was even when you think you're prepared you're not.
Rebecca: Mm-hmm.
Sven: It's that unknown, unknown thing. There might always be that element in a given situation that you will not be able to prepare for. And honestly, in my head, I got to the point before doing that second attempt where I was like, you know, even if I should not be able to lift them today, I'm fine with that. So I think the... have a buffer, have a little more in the tank than you might need. But also... Be okay if things don't go the way you want them to because there's always a chance for that. Have people as support there, especially if it's like such a moment that you worked for like for two years.
Rebecca: Junior,
Sven: But there's never a guarantee that you will succeed.
Rebecca: Yeah, and think as many as as much as people think that the Dinnies are a test of strength, it's really a test of self-trust because you like in your article, you said, I knew I only had one more time and it was going to go up ⁓ ⁓ Like the conviction when I read that was just, it is that it's believing for two years, believing in yourself for two years that you're going to do this, getting there, not having the conditions that you want, failing a first lift, but you still remain convicted. And I think that that is relates back to some of those Strong First principles is that it's more than just a strength system, a physical strength system.
Sven: way beyond that. Like we have a saying, fail with integrity. A professional does not have a plan B. You give it your all, the way it's supposed to be, and if it won't go up, let's say in a heavy press, then you don't start making funny movements and risking, let's say, a back injury. You just realize, okay, it's not in me today. Bring it down safely. Live to fight another day.
Rebecca: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Sven: I think that's the saying somebody put out there, but I'm not sure, but it's just what came to my head.
Rebecca: If not, you heard it first here. So you finished the Dinnie's. We've moved on to the stone lifting tour. Ben, talk to us about the lead up to the stone lifting tour. When did it take place and what stones were you going to lift on the tour?
Ben Bradbury: Yeah. Yeah, so Sven contacted me like I said 2022. Hang on, was it 22, 23? 23, sorry. It was 2023, I think. Contact me, yeah. So I'd been lifting these sandbags and Sven reached out and said, look, I'm gonna go and lift the Dinnies again, but we're gonna do some stones, some of the historic stones while we're there. Do you wanna join us? like everybody and everybody and their wife, I'd watched Stone Land and just falled in love with it. The film that launched a million stone lifts. And so ⁓ other thing I'd watched was Dan Strauss, Raspberry Ape, who's ⁓ a British and ⁓ just strength legend. put out a series on YouTube called Stones and Strangleholds, ⁓ which he'd toured around He'd been doing Jiu-Jitsu seminars. And as he'd gone round, he'd lifted some of the historic stones. ⁓ And they're all great.
Rebecca: and
Ben Bradbury: but he did the Inver stone on that one when it was still at, it's June, isn't it? The lady that used to keep the stone when it was still at June's house. I fell in, I love where it is now at the Braemar Highland Game Center. That's where it was when I lifted it, but seeing it at June's house and seeing, hey Liam.
Rebecca: Hi sweetie.
Sven: Say hello. Hello. Yes. No. Wait.
Rebecca: ⁓ we have a sick little one. He needed dad.
Ben Bradbury: Seeing it at June's house as well, I fell in love with the stone and I fell in love with her to be honest. One of my big regrets is that I didn't get into stone lifting in time to go and lift it at her house and meet her, because what a character. Along with some of the other people that are in that video that are unfortunately no longer with us, every time I have a pang of...
Sven: Say hi.
Ben Bradbury: sadness that I'll never get to meet those folks. But yeah, so the Inver stone was instantly on my radar. Whatever other stones we kind of made sense to go and lift, I was interested to go and do. But the Inver stone was one that stuck out to me straight away because I thought, I can't do the Dinnies. You know, I know we've just had all that talk about self-belief. Honestly, I went, I can't do the Dinnies. ⁓ Inver stone. Maybe I can do the Inver stone. Maybe I can do that because that's kind of like these sandbags I've been lifting. I just need to do go ⁓ So I said, well, Sven, will you put a program together for me? I'll train for the, I'll definitely train for the Inver. And I can't remember exactly how the conversations went, but I spent, think Sven basically went, you can train for the Dinnies as well. ⁓ wasn't much of a ⁓ in it. So ⁓ thought, ⁓ know what? ⁓ wrong.
Rebecca: Ha
Ben Bradbury: I won't be able to lift them, but I'll get stronger as I try for it. So why not? know, I'm going to, the time is going to pass anyway. I might as well be doing something productive with it. So why not try and train for them? And I'll get part of the way there. If I can get 50 % of the way to lifting the Dinnies, I'll be stronger than I am now. So why not? And then that was, yeah, two and a half years ago, I think. And I have belief in myself that I can lift those Dinnies now. attempt is booked in for the beginning of May. Like Sven said, ⁓ might happen then, it might not. There's never a hundred percent certainty, but I now have the belief that I will lift them. It's a matter of time. It will probably be in May, but it might not be. But if it's not in May, it will happen. ⁓ that's not a belief that I had when I started training for them, ⁓ is, yeah, I love being able to say that. I don't quite know how that happened. Just hours and hours and hours of being in the gym and doing it.
Rebecca: So I have them.
Sven: Yeah, that's the other effect of training. You build that confidence.
Rebecca: Yeah, so I've been watching you. You've definitely have started your pin training. So obviously you're getting into the stone specific training now. ⁓ ⁓ Sven, you spoke about that. ⁓ mistakes do people make when they rush into the stone specific training, whether it be for the historic, like naturals or the Dinnie's
Sven: I think, speaking natural stones, think if you never touched a natural stone before you might be in for a big surprise because that was that other eye-opening ⁓ moment that I had in Scotland when I went there in 2022 for the Dinnie stones because the Inver stone in Braemar very close to Potarch and I was like you know what I might not have a chance to lift some other stones, but we're so close to the Inver Stone, I will definitely give that a try. And based on its ⁓ like that would be such a cool stone to lift. ⁓ had done zercher in my preparation for the Dinnie Stones, so with the barbell having the bar in the crooks of your elbow. And I thought this is enough to lift a stone up front. I think my heaviest weight was like 150 kilos for a double. So roughly 30 kilos heavier than the Inver stone. I was like, yeah, even if it's different, like 30 kilos heavier, I got ⁓ And then I watched John Odin's video again, making it look like challenge play, getting it up to the shoulder like, yeah, no problem there. I was so taken aback when I first started to get that thing off the floor.
Rebecca: Yes. you
Ben Bradbury: You
Sven: I'm in the wrong movie here. is not right. ⁓ is supposed to go different. I got it to my lap. ⁓ took, I don't know, probably 40, 45 minutes in total. I cannot tell you how many attempts until I was like, okay, this is not going happen today. And I not able to stand up with it. Martin Jancsics
Ben Bradbury: you
Sven: who I was in contact also quite a lot before going to Scotland. He was like, you know what, it's actually quite an achievement get the Inver stone to your lap. But in that moment, it just doesn't feel if you've been preparing for something like we want to celebrate every achievement, no matter how small, but in that given moment, you just cannot accept ⁓ ⁓ get one way or another get a stone based on what I saw Ben achieving with lifting sandbags. I would say, and not just Ben, mean, countless other people by now show you this, but it's a pretty, pretty good alternative if you don't have access to a stone. And just expect to hurt. Because some stones are way rougher than you might think they are. Like the Inver stone has such a combination of being smooth and rough at the same time.
Rebecca: Yeah.
Sven: Approach it humbly, I want to say. Like, if you did strength training before, that's not a guarantee for you to lift a stone, because weight is only one aspect of the whole game. Like, the weight distribution, the shape of the stone, the surface, the texture, like, all those things, even if you think it's not heavy, just regarding the weight, it's like not...
Rebecca: Mm.
Sven: everything. There are so many other aspects you need to keep in mind.
Rebecca: And so when you went back on the trip with Ben, you both got it to the barrel, correct? Ben, let's talk about your lift for that and that experience.
Ben Bradbury: Yeah, so I, I'd in training, I had 120 kilos sandbag, which is about the weight of the, the Inver stone. I'd done most of my work, probably at I had a bag that was 105 kilos and that was the one that I could consistently get up. I managed to lift the 120 kilo bag to chest ⁓ before I, before I went there. So, ⁓ know, I would I am also like Sven, someone that likes to be prepared and over-prepared, but in that case I had to settle for, all right, you've touched something that's similar weight, that's about it. But the 120 kilo sandbag I have is big, you know, it's a lot bigger than the Inver stone, so it's awkward. And I had it long ways between my feet, so I had to stand really wide and I had to kind of shimmy it up between my knees and it wasn't tightly packed, so it was quite a floppy bag and just a nightmare. So in that regard, the Inver stone felt lovely and compact compared to ⁓ But like Sven said, I wasn't prepared ⁓ how rough it was and how much skin it would take off my arms. Not that you notice that until an hour ⁓ ⁓ terms of the journey for it, I drove all the way up. So I live in the South of So I covered the length of England and it's a good way up into Scotland.
Sven: you
Ben Bradbury: I went by myself. My wife wasn't able to join me at that time. She wasn't feeling very well. So I really enjoyed that. It was a lovely, was a long drive, but it was, you know, it's about 10 hours. But it gave me a lot of time to just think, listen to some stuff I wanted to listen to some podcasts, but not overconsume it and just enjoy seeing some parts of even my own country that I hadn't seen before. It was a beautiful drive up, lovely weather, got to, got to where we were staying in Aboyne I had a little Airbnb. I was just down the road from Sven, but we didn't meet up that night. ⁓ So just the quietness, the calmness of being able to get myself ready that morning, ⁓ drive across about a 20, 30 minute drive from Aboyne to, ⁓ Braemar And again, just just landscapes. I had spent a little bit of time in Canada in, in Banff. did a, worked a winter season out on the ski slopes and I
Rebecca: ⁓
Ben Bradbury: I have left part of my heart in the Rockies. I yearn to go back one day. I love them. I love it. And so much of Scotland reminds me of that. We drove actually through Banff in Scotland as well at one point, which just made part of me sing. So that whole just drinking in the journey up to it, the physical journey up to it was just incredible for me. And I'm not always very good at being in the moment.
Rebecca: Mm-hmm.
Ben Bradbury: but I was so glad that I was able to enjoy that part. And then we got there, there's very little fanfare. You turn up, it was a Sunday morning, it was cold, there was dew everywhere, so it was quite damp. We'd arranged, so Sven and I rocked up at the same time. I said hello to his wife and to Liam who you just met. And there's no warmup really. You do a few arm shakes and stretches and stuff. Okay, there it is. I probably wasn't as good at drinking in the moment for that because I just wanted to get it done almost. There was an element of I've got so much ⁓ energy and emotion invested in this and I probably rushed. We lifted it, I think three times, somewhere three or four times we took it up. But that first one
Rebecca: isn't
Sven: Yeah, something like that. Yeah.
Ben Bradbury: I'm glad I've got the video of it. I FaceTimed my wife so she could be there in spirit. But I rushed it. it is what it is. ⁓ learned to try and enjoy it even when you're feeling antsy about getting it done. think trying to, again, enjoy that moment is really important. ⁓ it was... ⁓ It's the culmination of so many things for me. I think it probably was a big turning point in me going, maybe I can do the Dinnie's now as well. It was a stepping stone as well. And just felt elated. I was walking on air for weeks afterwards.
Rebecca: Yeah, I saw the photos and videos of both of you and I'm just like the pictures of Liam there and him watching you and your wife was there or your partner just so the energy around it like it was a real grounded moment and I think Ben you really touched on something for me is that So often in the pursuit of strength, when we get to the actual pivotal moment, that is when we're tested the most to actually stay in our body and be at one with the, be at one with the attempt or be at one with whatever it is that you're doing and not get lost in that anxiety so that that's what stone lifting has, you know, I do compete in stone lifting, but when when I'm not training it per my program, and I'm outlifting. It becomes very much a grounded practice, feeling my feet on the ground, watching my breath, watching how it feels as it goes up. feeling that heaviness as you do the bumps on your chest, feeling the solid ground, like I think, and this is a lifelong practice of staying conscious in your body. And I think this is one strength that the Strong First also teaches is that, that embodiment piece, that listening, that groundedness, and you're going to have another attempt to do it when you go over to retry the Dinnies. So you can, you can be, you can have It'll be doing it again, this time, and I don't know if it is on your list, but this time you can be present and you can, and I think so many times when we see people do these lifts on Instagram is that we only see that moment, right? We don't see the background and the story that you've told, the lead up, the arc to it. the how you were in the moment. And this is what I love about the podcast is being able to get into these stories. I've collected so many stories around the Inver like yours. It ⁓ a lot of people's ⁓ stone. If it's not the Dinnies, ⁓ the Inver. Ben, talk to me about your experience on the Inver and then we'll kind of go to, you know, stones that you might have lifted on that tour.
Ben Bradbury: Yeah, Again...
Rebecca: ⁓ sorry, I mean, Ben or Sven, whichever, whoever wants to talk. I knew I was going to do this at one point in the episode. I knew I was going to do this. Sorry, Sven.
Sven: Yeah.
Ben Bradbury: Hehehehehe
Sven: ⁓ No worries. For me, the Inver stone was actually the third stone during that trip to Scotland because we flew to Edinburgh and then took a rental car from there, drove up to the Highlands and then stayed in Pitlockery. small village, and went to one of my other highlights of that trip which was the Fianna Stone. Yeah.
Rebecca: ⁓ yes.
Sven: So. Given what I just said about biggest mistakes in training for lifting historic or natural stones, up until that point, I was not able to lift historic, natural stones. So coming back two years later, I just hoped I would be stronger than two years ago. But for me, it was a test, honestly. And it's not just that aspect, but
Rebecca: Yeah.
Sven: these stones have been used as tests of strength. So one thing that I wanted to do was to see how I would measure up against it. And I was actually quite happy with it because I think the Fianna stone is a stone that if you stand in front of it looks smaller than you think it would be, but it has a density to it that throws you off a little.
Rebecca: Mm-hmm.
Sven: It provides some good handles though. So I was actually successful lifting the stones, also carrying back to the plinth. So that was a good start into that. We went to Castle Menzies afterwards and I had to go at the Chieftain's Stone, which ⁓ a completely different challenge. Comparatively ⁓ let's say. Also, if you compare it to the other stones, like 115, like the Fianna stone comes at 127, I think. So weight-wise, like I just said, that might be deceiving because it's just smooth. Like it gets compared to glass, ⁓ of glass, and that's actually what it is. ⁓ getting that thing off the floor probably took me 15 minutes. ⁓ that stubbornness. ⁓
Rebecca: Yeah.
Sven: And I was able to get it to just fairly good. I was not completely happy with my attempt, so another reason to come back. But those two stones, if you watched the Stoneland documentary, are just in a setting that is stunning. And being there ⁓ a chilly Sunday morning,
Ben Bradbury: Okay.
Sven: Breathtaking it was it was just breathtaking I was happy with how both stones went so I was fairly Convinced that the Inver stone will go up as well ⁓ I have to say that I think Ben did the way better job than I did Because ⁓ no, so if you look at the two videos ⁓ if fair your lift is more beautiful than mine, ⁓ but that just speaks to
Ben Bradbury: ⁓
Sven: to what I was eluding earlier, which is general strength training is good, but at one point you need to make that transition to the actual stone that you're lifting because weight, there's more to it than weight. A lot of people said that before, like very strong people, like even strongmen athletes struggle with the natural stones and the historic stones, although they're lifting so much more than you would ever be able to possible in the classic lifts. So, happy with the lifts, but there will be ⁓ reckoning with the Inver stone. I want to do it more beautiful the next time.
Rebecca: Yeah, I don't think there's any stone other than the Fiana that's made me cry because ⁓ didn't get it my last attempt and I had to be gracious in ⁓ that what the world was offering me up at that point. And I may never get it, but I will continue to work away ⁓ at to get some bit of air beneath it. And but that It's beautiful. took off, I took off my shoes for that one and walked across the pasture and it was beautiful, dewy. And I mean, it's just, when you think of a stereotypical Scottish photo, that's what it was like for me. so Ben, did you try Fianna or any other stones on that trip or was it just Inver for you?
Ben Bradbury: Yeah, well when I got there and Sven told me he'd been cheating on me and going and playing with other stones before. I ⁓ very happy for him but I was incredibly jealous. ⁓ on that trip, ⁓ of us, Sven, his ⁓ partner, ⁓ wife, son, ⁓ two of his friends had come over as well.
Rebecca: Ha
Ben Bradbury: We all went up and we did the Barevan which I know is one of your favorites as well. just, can't, we have limited time and I can't, I know none of us can put into words how atmospheric the surroundings around the Barevan stone are. That is a special Even if you have no interest in stone lifting, like just go and visit it, because it's amazing. So yeah, then after. Sven did the Dinnie's. my drive home, I thought, well, I'm driving home. might ⁓ well turn a 10 hour trip into a 12 hour trip and visit ⁓ other stones on the way back. So I went to the Fianna Stone and it was just the most glorious morning. That would have been a Wednesday morning. The sun was out for October. It was an incredibly hot day in Scotland. and I was there for a good while. I managed to get it to lap a few times, but I could not stand properly with it. Yeah, ⁓ truly humbled me. I've not told anyone else this, ⁓ but sat there for a good while and I just talked. ⁓ You say I talked to the stone or I just talked out loud. I just ⁓ sat
Rebecca: Mm-hmm.
Ben Bradbury: for a good half an hour afterwards and just talked out my thoughts and talked to the stone and gave it a pat and wished it well and said that I'd be back. that's a, yeah, it's a special place. So I have, there's no ill feeling about the fact that I couldn't lift it. I'm actually, I'm not happy that I couldn't lift it, but I'm satisfied with how it went. And I really look forward to going and
Sven: That is so beautiful.
Rebecca: It is.
Ben Bradbury: Not going and lifting it again, just going and being around it again. I'm looking forward to. then on the way back, I went to the ⁓ stone ⁓ obviously has the standing plinth. ⁓ the keeper of the stone there, I cannot remember his name. ⁓ from London though, kindly let me ⁓ his land. ⁓ had some of his ponies walking around. So I trotted down with my tripod and my... crash mat so I could take care of the stone. And yeah, the Puterach stone again, just so special to be there with that stone plinth. And he told me some of the history of it as well, some of the theories around it. And that was before it was cracked recently. So when you could still lift the Puterach onto the platform, onto the plinth. And I was very lucky, the Monachyle stone was there as well. So I was able to lift the Monachyle and I felt...
Rebecca: ⁓ right, yeah.
Ben Bradbury: I felt I learned my lesson a bit more from the Inver ⁓ The Monachyle's about the same weight as the Inver stone, although different shape, different texture. But I was really happy with my Monachyle lift because I took my time and you don't have anything to lift it onto because you can't lift it onto the plinth. It's far too heavy to on there. ⁓ I just did a standing lift with it to the chest and ⁓ like I'd... satisfied a little bit of dissatisfaction I had with my my Inver lift in terms of ⁓ and being able ⁓ to do it nicely. And again, just a special place to be. They're all they're all so ⁓ I know it's often quoted from Stoneland, but they are just rocks to anyone else. But if if you know, you know, and I know the people that listening to this, they'll they'll appreciate how much I can't put into words. Yeah, they will appreciate how much I can't.
Sven: Goosebumps.
Ben Bradbury: articulate just the meaning of it all profound.
Sven: It's that feeling when you stand at those places you saw so many times in that documentary.
Ben Bradbury: Yeah. And just feeling you're part of a history that goes on, it's so much bigger than you. And you have the privilege of being a little part of it. Not a part that anyone will remember, but you are part of that. You don't have to etch your name into anything, but you've been part of that history is amazing. It's so rewarding. Yeah.
Sven: Ugh.
Rebecca: Yeah.
Sven: Who knows?
Rebecca: So as we wrap up this stone, ⁓ sorry, yeah, go ahead, Sven.
Sven: You know, I do have a martial arts background as well. And in the martial arts, you speak of heritage. You can directly see who's in your line and it goes back to amazing people. Who knows who will remember you when they trace back their heritage. So you will never know. And that's the beautiful thing. ⁓ old school strength about the whole physical culture thing, think. Like Brooks Kubik. Yes, we do it.
Rebecca: Do it. Well, you both have Smash and Tasson, right?
Ben Bradbury: Yeah, we're not affiliated, but go and buy some Smash and Pass stuff because they're great. ⁓
Sven: No. I thought it was the best fit for the interview today.
Rebecca: See ya. It's so good. Like you didn't actually plan this because this is because your death. I thought it was planned because when I when I came on, I thought how are they both wearing smash and pass? That's great. But it is true. You speak to that because imagine those, you know, Ben you sat with the stone for moments. I've cried over the stone. My tears are on that stone. Like just think of the
Sven: No
Ben Bradbury: No.
Sven: No! You Yeah.
Rebecca: stories that have been imprinted there, and the stories that we're bringing into our families as well. we're gonna, as we wrap up this episode, we're gonna talk about imprinting those stories on future generations with fatherhood. But as we wrap up the stone lifting section, is there any stone principles? Because I wanted to go deep dive into kettlebells and the transfer to deadlifts and all of that, but... Okay.
Sven: Hahaha!
Ben Bradbury: We're happy, we're more than happy to come on again and into the weeds on Strong First principles. Like, I'm here for that.
Rebecca: Okay, perfect. Because I did not nerd out nearly enough. But is there just maybe like three things you can kind of say from a Strong First perspective about the stone lifting before we kind of segue out of this chapter?
Sven: HNNNN You
Ben Bradbury: don't mind kicking one off. I a huge skill that is developed through all the Strong First work is tension generation. ⁓ ability to ⁓ tension in your body, not just a brace, ⁓ body tension. And it's weird because I have heard time and time again and experienced myself, people's way into Strong First is often the kettlebell cert because the kettlebell is kind of the flagship tool that Strong First are known for, rightly or wrongly.
Rebecca: Go for it.
Ben Bradbury: People do the kettlebell sir, maybe what level one, level two, the barbell cert. And the body weight sir doesn't get the credit it deserves because often then people do the body weight sir as a kind of, I've done the others, I'll do that as well, unless they have a calisthenics background. And so many people do the body weight cert and then go, I understand the tension generation thing now. It links all the others together and it improves their skills in the other modalities. Because you don't have an external force to work against, they learn how to create that tension in themselves. And then when you then do apply it to an external force, a dumbbell, a barbell, a kettlebell, a sandbag of stone, whatever, you know how to do it so much better, it supercharges it. And I think that's a skill that transfers to any strength and really strong stone lifting. Because the amount of isometric static tension and strength you have to create, just to lift the stone and to keep hold of it is ⁓ fundamental, I'd say.
Rebecca: Yeah. And Sven
Sven: Pavel likes to say if you can't train only two things, train your grip and your core strength. Because that will link everything together. Sometimes we talk about neural facilitators, so certain muscle groups or let's say actions that will engage the nervous system more translating into more strength throughout the body. And what I thought, not necessarily training for stones, but what stone lifting will give you is exactly that. it will give you grip strength and because of the way you have to hold the stone in front of your body it will activate your core and get you strong there. So I think as a training tool actually it fits in very nicely to what we're doing there and we were talking off air Rebecca like the kettlebell, the barbell, the bodyweight it's just a tool. to convey general principles of strength. Like Ben just said in the body weight certification, it's way easier if you have an external form of resistance like a weight, way harder when you have to brace or create tension, not a feedback tension, but a feed forward tension. from like a dead stop, dead lift is completely different than a squat from the squat rack where you get that loaded feeling. before you move, you don't have to create that tension upfront on your own. yeah, use the tool, whatever you have available, try to build some strength. Stones are a awesome tool for it. I mean, it just looks cool and feels awesome to lift a stone. But there are many, I think many schools out there, many strength systems.
Rebecca: Mm-hmm. It does. It absolutely does.
Sven: that can be applicable to stone lifting. Like you mentioned 531, there are others like the conjugate method, Dave Nisbett, caveman Dave man on Instagram, like his programming is awesome. Sean Urquhart, there are so many great lifters. John, I forgot his name. Travel lift stones repeat on Instagram. Yeah, like different approaches to reach the same goal, but they share, I think the same principles.
Rebecca: Mm-hmm. ⁓ Traveler Stones, repeat, yeah.
Sven: and fundamental ideas behind the training.
Rebecca: Yeah, I think for me for sure, because I am an older athlete, but I focused more on my grip and my kind of, I'm going to say core, but I know that that's kind of a controversial word to use, but let's just say that. ⁓ ⁓
Sven: Sadly.
Rebecca: I will be using the McGill 3 method. don't know if you're aware of that, but I always do that every every lift now. And now I've also incorporated band pull-aparts every single day and grip grip work. it been a game changer for me with respect to how I approach weights, I how I approach stones, how I approach even just walking ⁓ and showing up in the world. So thank you for that. As we segue out of this, we did talk about how I loved watching the family aspect the Inver stone Lift and seeing little Liam there and seeing Liam come on and I got to a message from him the other day too, which was so, so sweet. ⁓ can you ⁓ about how, because it's more than just the stones, as you say, it's deeper than that. And so how fatherhood or soon to be ⁓ has influenced how you train and your approach to ⁓ drinks.
Sven: Where to start?
Rebecca: Right? I know we need a chapter two.
Sven: mean, just based on what I'm doing and what Liam sees me doing, he already starts talking about like becoming strong to lift the Dinnie stones or training to get stronger, although he has no idea what that word actually means at this point in time. So one thing that I try to do is to, as best as I can, live up to the meaning of
Rebecca: Mmm.
Sven: of it in as many ways as I can so that he grows up and has a... holistic view or picture of what being strong will actually mean. ⁓ I do like it that he already to the kettlebells and he picks up his little stones. ⁓ ⁓ to share whole journeys with them, like just going to the places ⁓ like mentioned before, like the Barevan Stone. the Fianna Stone, like it's just awesome to be there, whether there is a stone or not. In the end, it would not matter because those places just would be worthwhile visiting for their own sake. And so I think it's another aspect of just creating a bond with, with your kid and showing them what, the world has to offer, whether he's going to lift stones or not. I don't actually care right now. He think it's funny to lift some, some stones or rocks that he finds somewhere outside because I'm doing ⁓ Who knows what his intention will be 10 years down the road, whether he will be still interested in there, but just seeing what strength training
Rebecca: Isn't it?
Sven: had for amazing effects on in my own life. I just hope that I am example enough for him to pick up a physical practice of whatever kind on his own once he's old enough.
Rebecca: Yeah. And Ben, you're soon to be dad, so congratulations. Talk to us about how you're experiencing your own mindset shift.
Ben Bradbury: Thank you. Yeah, so my wife is ⁓ almost 38 weeks pregnant, so literally any moment. When's this gonna air, by the way?
Rebecca: This one will come out early March.
Ben Bradbury: Okay, so I can disclose it here knowing there won't be space to work. We haven't told anybody what we're having, but we know that we're having a little boy. So I didn't have a preference. Any child is a blessing. ⁓ wasn't gunning for one or the other, but ⁓ been on my mind quite a bit. ⁓ ⁓ through some of the talking points that you put out for the podcast got me thinking even more. ⁓
Rebecca: Hahaha
Sven: Ha
Ben Bradbury: had a lot of reflection. My wife is fantastic in doing things purposefully ⁓ through the intention of things and the outcome. So she's, you you want to talk about mentors in terms of building me as a person. I have so much credit to give to my wife and my parents. And I think ⁓ tying some of the other things that we've said about think especially my granddad, my paternal granddad, being such a big figure has felt like strength wise quite a lot to live up to. Although he never, you know, he passed away when I was about 12. So I've never had to stand side by side to him as a man, but there's a, there's the feels like there's a legacy there. This feels like there's a something quite imposing there. You know, we've talked in our family, he left school when he was 13, he went and worked in a copper mill. This was during the 1930s, there was depression. You either didn't eat or he could go to school, but he wouldn't have food. So you had to go and work and he would carry a hundred pound sacks in each hand as just part of his daily work. And I remember him having these huge hands. You talk about the iconic sort of someone that's built like stone lifting. I don't think he ever did any stone lifting, but my God was he built for it. And I think my dad didn't inherit that build. it seems to skip a generation in my family. So like I said, my brother did, I had my father's build. And I think in terms of things I want to pass down, it's probably something that my mum and my dad have passed down to me, or two things. One is the determination. My dad was, sorry, my dog is going absolutely berserk. He is the protector of the household. I'm just going to close the door.
Rebecca: No worries.
Ben Bradbury: Don't let Sigh get in your way. He's a miniature sausage dog, but my God, is he going to protect this house with everything he's got? My parents showed me determination in terms of my dad was the first person in their line to go to university. ⁓ we regard my dad as incredibly intelligent and wise in our family. He's ⁓ Oracle. He will tell you, I'm not smart. just, I had to work much harder than everyone else at university.
Rebecca: Hahaha!
Ben Bradbury: you know, he met people that were effortlessly intelligent, but he just, he just worked harder, and to, match them. ⁓ I think that's a lesson I want to ⁓ my, my son and maybe other children, if, if we're lucky enough, is that determination of you can, you can set your mind to something and it'll take a time. It will take a while, but you can, you can do something if you want to set your mind to it. And the other one is one that definitely did come down through my grandparents and through my parents. And what I talked about earlier is you have a responsibility. You look after the people around you ⁓ and strength is a responsibility and strength comes in many forms. And I really hope that my son will watch me strength train and have an interest in it, but I don't want to set any... ⁓
Rebecca: you
Ben Bradbury: preconceived ideas, you I don't want him to feel he has to do anything. He doesn't have to be involved in strength or stone lifting. But I just want him to use whatever gifts and talents, whatever gifts and talents he has and whatever skills he develops and see the responsibility of them. Not as an onerous thing, not as a burden. It's an incredible gift to have these things and to be able to look after people around you is it makes that bloom. It's the combination of them. It's what they're destined for, I'd say. Yeah.
Rebecca: Yeah. Yeah, I, and this, this ties back nicely to something that Sven was mentioning to us about tying through history through BJJ and like, you won't know your impact and you won't know who is taking inspiration from you. And for me, like I was my first, the first person in my family to go off to university. I've been the first woman to show up in a physical gym. I've been the first to stone lift.
Sven: you
Rebecca: And I've changed years of generational trauma that I have no idea the impact of what it will be three generations from now. But my girls are seeing it. They're getting in the gym and they're strong women. They have never been on a diet in their life and they are in their late teens, which I cannot say for a majority of people that are in my generation. We were on diets probably since the age of 12 and 13. I, and through through me alone, just that one little piece, that one piece of, I don't have to monitor my eating in a way to be small to fit and be palatable. Goodness knows what that's gonna be. I think it's, and as fathers, you have a huge responsibility for not only your sons, but for any daughters that you might have to.
Sven: Yeah.
Rebecca: you know, show up and to show them that attachment. And I can see that with you, Sven, that you have a very strong attachment with your son and it's a beautiful thing and it will pay dividends years from now. This has been an amazing episode and I want a part two, maybe even a part three. And sadly, sadly, we're all parents and we all have things to do, but ⁓ we need to close out in our standard way. ⁓
Sven: Bye.
Rebecca: And that's just three pieces of advice. And I feel like you've been giving me, you know, little snippets of things to think about, but three, three last pieces of advice to take us out of this episode. And Sven, we'll start with you and then you can finish up.
Sven: you Get yourself a challenge. Because you need resistance to build strength, So you need some kind of challenge to see what you're made of. You need something that tests you, that you have to struggle for, that will not only show you what you're made of, but also what you might be able to achieve. Patience. like patient, stubborn patients.
Rebecca: Yes, yes.
Sven: There's that saying like most people overestimate what they can achieve in a month, but underestimate what they can do in a year. I think that is very true. I did a little, I participated in a little poll in the Strong First Forum two years ago, like after Action Report for 2024. And I was like, you know what, let's just start writing and see what happens. And I was blown away with what I did in a year. it didn't feel to me like that. going through that year. I was just aware, looking back what I actually did and it's just incredible. Try to share the experiences with people. Like, whether you do a tour with like-minded people or just take the family with you to lift some stones, whether they might complain or not. At first, because usually it's just beautiful places you will get to, share the experiences you have. It makes them so much more meaningful.
Rebecca: Mm-hmm. Hahaha! ⁓ Thank you. Those are lovely. And Ben?
Ben Bradbury: ⁓ I feel like I just thought of something great and I've forgotten it straight away. ⁓
Rebecca: Welcome to parenting. That is going to be a thought ⁓ through like the entire parenting experience.
Sven: Welcome to my world. ⁓
Ben Bradbury: Yeah Yeah. Well, if we do other episodes, you'll see my slow deterioration as sleep deprivation kicks in until I'm just dribbling and going stone good, lift hard. ⁓ Yeah, I think... In terms of general life, There's something that's come up for me a few times. Setting up my business was really hard. ⁓ I won't go into the depths of it, but I ⁓ tried do everything myself and this was during COVID and it was scary. It was a ⁓ lot responsibility. It was a big ⁓ ask I got myself to a very dark place over the course of a couple of years of ⁓ overworking. I'm thankfully in a much better place with it now. I've had people help me, professional and ⁓ And I've got a great team around me at the gym. And something that comes back time and again, I think it's an African proverb is, if you wanna go quickly, go alone. If you wanna go further, go together. ⁓ And can for a short period of time, if you wanna do something, yeah, if you wanna go quickly, go alone. Absolutely, there are times when...
Rebecca: I'm human.
Ben Bradbury: You're going to have to just rely on yourself and get that thing done. I tried to do it for too long. But in other regards, ⁓ not someone that naturally ⁓ ⁓ coaching, I can step out and I can fill a room. But ⁓ I at the back of the room. I stay in the corner and I don't assume that I have a place at the table. ⁓ I don't ⁓ step But it's every time I've reached out to people, it's been worth it. ⁓ It's amazing the opportunities that come up. I wouldn't be here with you guys if I hadn't, ⁓ and I hadn't talked to each other and I hadn't reached out to him and all those great things that have come from that. So yeah, reach out to other people. You go further if you go together. ⁓ that goes for many aspects. I think a second one would probably be your you'll never regret being kind. can ⁓ blow up in your face and cause more trouble than you think it's worth in ⁓ short term. And you go, God, I was just trying to help. ⁓ but be an inconvenience at times. Being kind can put more work your plate and it ⁓ can ruin plans you might have had for a simple life that day or whatever it is. But in terms of a peace in your you'll never regret being kind. And you should always try and choose it when you have ⁓ opportunity. And it takes reserves sometimes, it's not the easy option. And in terms of the third one, ⁓ it's okay to not always believe in yourself, I think. It doesn't always seem like it. Nowadays, a lot of stuff is to do with almost toxic positivity. It's okay to not believe in yourself at times. I certainly haven't in a lot of my journey and that's all right. It doesn't mean you can't achieve something. It doesn't mean you won't achieve something. And I think sometimes people think you have to be so positive that when they see that chink in the armor, that crack of doubt in themselves, ⁓ everything apart. Whereas if actually you go, no, it's okay. It's okay to not always have unwavering belief in myself, but I'm not gonna stop. I'm gonna keep going. ⁓ then yeah, that's a great, you can turn it into a strength.
Rebecca: I absolutely appreciate these last bits of advice because I didn't know when I first reached out to you and it was about the Inver Stone that it was going to morph into this episode. But your energy that your profiles give out and the exchanges that we've had is true. It's 100 % honest and true and I have, through this, this was not supposed to be a two hour discussion, but it's slowly turning into that. But I have been teary eyed through this. I have been, like my arms are tingling and I have goosebumps pretty much the whole time because I just feel so in alignment with you as ⁓ ⁓ ⁓
Ben Bradbury: Hehehehehe
Rebecca: I don't know if you believe in this kind of woo woo, but when you do have those kind of shivers, you need to listen to them. You need to listen and perk up. And these, there's, it's a strong message that this is the, you are in alignment. And so.
Sven: Yeah, ⁓ yes.
Rebecca: As we finish off this episode, I want to tell you that I am supremely grateful that you coordinated this. did it over three different time zones. Ben was the mastermind ⁓ he corralled us all together. ⁓ just, the laughter, the honesty, ⁓ extreme knowledge, which we didn't even like get into the depths of, but I am. ⁓
Sven: Thank
Rebecca: I slowly became humbled by about Wednesday realizing what I was entering into this conversation. But as you can see, folks, these people are just, they're just people. And, ⁓ and that's what we like to bring to the table is ⁓ that are amazing and ⁓ are just like absolutely humble and good at what they do. And you would never even know it. You would just never even know it. And so if I saw you on the street, I would have no idea that you are all these things. So thank you so much for being here, taking the time and cannot wait to hear about the Dinnie attempt and your further stone escapades in our part two in 2027. So thank you so much and enjoy the rest of your day and we'll be in touch. Take care. Yes.
Ben Bradbury: Yeah.
Sven: Ha ha ha! Thank you, Rebecca. But also thank you for doing that great preparation. Like you said, you took some real time to dive into the weeds. I think, I mean, I haven't been on big shows, but I think nobody did it to the extent you did. it's, yeah, it turned out, like you said, to be an absolutely wonderful conversation. So awesome. Thank you.
Ben Bradbury: Take care, thank you.
Rebecca: Yeah, no. ⁓ ⁓ thank you. ⁓
Ben Bradbury: Yeah, thank you. Yeah, the stuff you sent over, the questions to think about were incredibly thought provoking for me. And like I said, it's helped me actually pull together a lot of stuff that's been probably percolating up in my mind for years. And I've never been able to find the words to express it. I still don't feel I have really, but it's an incredible gift that you've given us to be able to think through some of these things and tie together so many threads that...
Sven: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Ben Bradbury: I now realise have been going on in my life and in my forebears before that that I didn't even know. And yeah, thank you.
Rebecca: Oh my goodness, that is my metric and you've just hit it so checkbox and my heart. So sending you all the love as you venture out into the day and see you on the next episode of the Stone Table podcast. Don't forget to subscribe and like. Take care.
Ben Bradbury: Take care.
