Brian Bates Private Investigator HoltzclawTrial.com

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It's the Opperman Report.
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Join digital forensic investigator in PI Ed Opperman for in
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depth discussion of conspiracy theories, strategy of New World Order resistance,
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hi profile court cases in the news, and interviews with
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expert guests and authors.
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Are these topics and more.
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It's the Opperman Report, and now here is investigator Ed Opperman.
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Okay, welcome to the Opperman Report. I'm your host, private
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investigator Ed Opperman. I'm the president of Opperman Investigations and
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Digital Friends and Consultant. You can find a link to
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my work at email revealer dot com. You can go
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there and get an autograph copy of my book How
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to Become a Successful Private Investigator, Don't forget. This show
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is brought to you by Courtking dot com. That's kartca
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Art dash king dot com. Their numbers eight seven seven
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six seven seven seven one. And what they do is
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the mall and you see those carts on perfume and
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those little helicopters and stuff and all that kind of
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it to you worldwide. Cartking dot com eight seven seven
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nine eighty six seven seven seven to one. Okay, well
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give this another try. I had Brian Bates a private investigator.
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Now.
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His website is Bates Investigates dot com. He's also got
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another website called Holtzclaw Trial dot com and that's the
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trial of Daniel holtz Claw, who's serving some serious time now.
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I believe it's over two hundred years for a series
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of sexual allegations there over in Oklahoma City. Brian Bates
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is also the guy behind John TV. You might have
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seen him on Maury Povich one hundred thousand times and
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the video Vigilante okay see is his YouTube channel. So
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really interesting guy. He's gonna have a podcast coming up
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soon about this Daniel Holtzclaw case, and I really recommend
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it because Brian is a great way of telling a
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story and I'm very well researched kind of guy. So
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I think you're really going to enjoy his podcast when
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it finally launched. So, Brian Bates, are you there all right?
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Madam? Thank you for having me.
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Thank you so much. And this is, by the way,
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people should know, this is the third time Brian Bates
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is coming back. We had so many difficulty problems. I
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talked about it the other night about how I was
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driving back and forth to the cable company tried to
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get my cable back on, and Brian was over there
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in Oklahoma City on the other end of the line
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during all that. So God bless you, Brian. Thank you
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so much. But remind the audience who is Brian Bates.
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Well?
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Here locally, a lot of people know me as the
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video vigilante. They know me as the guy behind at
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johntv dot com pretty much. They just know me as
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kind of this crazy guy that exposes prostitution and human
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trafficking here in Oklahoma City. And I use my video
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camera to do that. And I've been doing it for
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about twenty plus years. When I started off simply as
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a way to get the prostitution and drug activity and
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pimping activity out of my own neighborhood. And the very
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first time I caught somebody. I didn't think i'd find
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myself that situation. Didn't know what to say, so I said,
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you're busted, buddy, and that line's stuck. And twenty years
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later people will see me on the street and go, hey,
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you're busted, buddy, and it's taken off and really educated
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the public to the problem of forced prostitution and everything
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that goes along with that and the detriment to the community.
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So it's kind of I guess it's sort of a
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little local celebrity in that regard. And so I do that,
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and then because of my work doing that and do
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an investigative work into the pimps and the human traffickers,
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I developed quite an interest into private investigative work and
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got my license and became an armed private investigator, and
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I began working on criminal defense trials. I found those
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pretty interesting, and probably the biggest trial I've worked on
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today would be a former Oklom City police officer, Daniel
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Holts Clause criminal trial.
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So give us an idea. Daniel Holts glad he was
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a cop for three years. How did he come to
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become a defendant?
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Well, Daniel had he had, you know, fairly recently had
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he even twenty ten, he graduated from Eastern Michigan University.
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He was a football player, big guy, six one six.
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Two two fifty or so pounds, solid muscle. Really had
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aspirations to go on to the NFL. That didn't happen.
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He just I don't think was really quite quick enough
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for the NFL, and he had a pretty quiet personality.
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And so when that didn't work out that in twenty eleven,
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he was hired on by the Clom City Police Department
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and shows to follow really in his parents' footsteps.
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His Daniel's half.
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Japanese half Caucasian, and his mother, who's Japanese, was actually
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a police officer in Japan, and his father, he's a
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police officer in a smaller city in Oklahoma.
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He's a lieutenant. And so Daniel decided to.
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Follow in his parents' footsteps and become a law enforcement
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officer and dedicate his life to serving the citizens of Oklahoma.
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Completed the training in twenty twelve, joined the Gang Unit
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twenty thirteen for just a short stay just so he
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could get taste of the gang unit, and then by
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June of twenty fourteen, these allegations are are being leveled
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against him, and it really it was something that nobody
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his family didn't expect.
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He certainly didn't expect. He had a bit of a
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reputation for.
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Being an angier faced type of patrol officer. Because he
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was such a big, ominous patrol officer and because he
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had the ability to take care of himself, they placed
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him very early on in his career in probably the
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roughest part of Oklahoma City, the northeast side. It's primarily
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minority area, tons of gangs, tons of drugs, very violent
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area of town. And he could hold his own and
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he had he had garnered well over a dozen use
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of force allegations against him, was cleared of every single
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one of them. He was one of those guys that
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he'd be real respectful to you, but but if you
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ran from him, he's going to come after you and
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he's going to catch you. And a lot of these
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tough gang bangers on the once Daniel caught him, they
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claimed he was he was a little rough on him.
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But he was cleared of all those things. And then one.
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Night he did a he did an off duty stop,
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and that lady of grandmother actually made an allegation against him.
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And she was sort of the lynch pin accuser.
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And the ultimate conclusion to that was ultimately thirteen women
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went to trial against him, a criminal trial. It was
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thirteen accusers, thirty six alleged crimes at seventeen alleged crime scenes.
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And he was found guilty of exactly half of those
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thirty six allegations, and he was sentenced to two hundred
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and sixty three years in prison. And that's where he
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sits right now. He's being held at an undisclosed location
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by the Department of Corrections and he's filed his appeal.
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And we've yet to hear the conclusion of that appeal.
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So the first woman who made the complaint against him
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was this woman named Liggins. Can you describe that evening
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what happens?
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Yeah, Daniel works twelve hour shifts and he was getting
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off of it was June eighteenth of twenty fourteen, and
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about two am. He worked for this Spring Lake Division
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is the briefing station that he patrolled out of, and
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it was getting about two o'clock.
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It was the end of his shift two o'clock in
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the morning.
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He'd have to return to work again around three o'clock
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later that afternoon. And he turned off his computer, as
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he did every time after he ended his shift. That
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became pretty controversial during the trial and during this sort
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of media onslaught around the trial that he had turned
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his computer off.
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And for people who aren't familiar.
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With how at least our police department works, when you
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turn off your computer inside your patrol car, you've turned
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off the GPS, you've turned off everything. You're basically just
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driving us today in at that point. And he did
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that at the end of his shift, and that was
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against policy. Policy said that you had to leave.
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Your computer on if you had to take home car,
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which Daniel had to take home, had to take home car.
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And so a lot of people thought, oh, this was
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proof that he was in predator mode and he was
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looking for his next victim, and he.
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Had gone dark and all these things.
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Well, that the reality was and this came out in
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the trial, and I have the transcripts from the trial
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that this was very rampant about officers turning off their computer,
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so rampant in fact, that they had recently enacted this
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policy which was you cannot turn off your computer. So
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it's a brand new rule and the only way they
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even told officers about this rule is through email.
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They just emailed it out to the officers.
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And they admitted a trial that they had no confirmation
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from Daniel he had ever this email that he knew
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anything about the rule and that it was a new rule.
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So him turning off the his computer really was a
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non issue, but people tried to turn it into one.
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But regardless, two am comes he turns off his computer.
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Basically that exact same time. In just a couple of
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blocks away, a fifty seven year old woman by the grandmother,
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by the name of Jannie Leggins. She's spent all late
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afternoon and up to two am at another house with
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another gentleman, not her boyfriend or boyfriend was on the
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other side of town, but anyway, she was there, said
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she's playing dominoes and just conversing. So two am she's leaving,
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and it just so happens that within a few minutes
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Daniel and Janie Liggins PAVs cross and Jennie Liggins is
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his friend. Daniel, and he says that she sees her
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car across the center line once or twice. Well on
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the street that they were on, it's pitch black. They
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are no street lights, the vehicle she's driving is totally
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blacked out with tent. He can't see in the vehicle
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during the daylight. When we photograph the car, you can't
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see into the vehicle. And so they pull up to
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the light at northeast fiftieth and Lincoln Boulevard, and according
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to both Liggins and anholtz Claw, as they're proceeding through
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the intersection, he lights her up. He turns on his
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strobes and indicates for her to pull over, and she
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pulls over right away, and he quickly realizes that this
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isn't gangbangers.
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It's isn't a bunch of drug dealers.
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He's this isn't going to be some you know, stop
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that's going to really mean anything. And so he wants
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to make sure those since she had been swerving, that
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you know that she's okay to drive, and really he
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wanted to figure out what she was doing at two am.
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You know, this grandmother out and it's probably not when
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you picture a grandmother, she probably doesn't fit that picture.
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She had big hoop ear rings in, she's got some
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colored streaks in her hair. She naturally kind of talks
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in a lower tone, almost sounds like she's slurring, her
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eyes stay pretty closed, So if you didn't know her,
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you would assume she's under the influence of maybe alcohol
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or drugs, and so that that's what Daniel thought initially,
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had her come back to the back of his car,
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talked to her for a few minutes to stop. In total,
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took about twelve thirteen minutes, and then Daniel says that
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he finally became convinced she was fine to drive home,
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and that maybe she just got nervous because she saw
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a police car behind her. Maybe that's why she kind
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of crossed the center line a little bit, but.
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He was going to let her go.
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Janey, on the other hand, claims that when she was
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taken to the back of his car that at some
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point and the story gets a little graphic because we
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are talking about someone who is charged with several, you know,
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sexual offenses, but she claims that at some point he
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exposed his penis and that he forced her to perform
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oral sex upon him, and then only after performing that
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sex act was she allowed to leave. And she wanted
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to report that incident as a crime, and of course
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Daniel says it absolutely didn't happen, and that's what started everything.
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At that point.
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Okay, let me clarify some questions here. Now. First of all,
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he was driving home police car. So this is like
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a small kind of police force. Whether it's a take
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home car, you could take your place car home with me.
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Right right. It was several officers. I don't know how
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they decide who gets to or not.
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He actually, even though he was a new officer, was
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given one of the one of their brand new patrol cars,
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and he was allowed to take that patrol car home.
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And the whole reason they have you take the patrol
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car home is so that you are available if there's
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any kind of an emergency in your area. One the
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patrol cars get seen in neighborhoods. It helps keep crying down.
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If you see someone performing traffic infraction or breaking the law,
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you're perfectly allowed to pull them over or question them
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or detain them even though you're off duty. So him
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stopping her off the clock was not against any sort
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of policies. I mean, it's actually a big police force.
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It's you know, it's Oklahoma City, so it's a large
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police force. But a lot of officers are allowed to
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take their vehicles home.
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Do we know if he had a busy shift that
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00:12:53.639 --> 00:12:55.639
day at worked a lot of tickets or any restaurant thing.
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00:12:56.240 --> 00:12:58.879
Well, his shifts are always pretty busy. Like I said,
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he's spring Lake District, northeast part of town. It's a
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00:13:01.440 --> 00:13:03.799
lot of stop and talk with people on the street.
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00:13:03.879 --> 00:13:05.879
It's a lot of people loitering around. It's a lot
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00:13:05.879 --> 00:13:08.039
of people looking like they're up to no good. It's
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00:13:08.080 --> 00:13:10.799
a lot of people doing suspicious what looks like and
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00:13:10.879 --> 00:13:14.159
probably is in many cases street drug activity. There's lots
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00:13:14.200 --> 00:13:17.240
of gang activities, so you stop and you interact with
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the youth on the street. And he had a lot
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00:13:19.960 --> 00:13:22.720
of contacts with every one of his shifts. He always
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00:13:22.720 --> 00:13:26.120
had a lot of contacts with men and women, but
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nothing really.
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Out of the ordinary.
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There were no bigger risks or no and honestly, in
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the northeast part of town, unless you're create, unless you're
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00:13:34.919 --> 00:13:38.960
conducting a pretty serious crime, you're probably not going to
275
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get arrested. Because Oklahoma City is a big department, but
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they're stretched very thin.
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00:13:43.639 --> 00:13:45.679
So a couple of things people need to know.
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Oklahoma City patrol cars don't have dash cameras. Oklahoma City
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police officers until recently did not have body cams. And
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at the time of this incident at twenty fourteen, the
281
00:13:55.720 --> 00:13:57.600
officers were not wearing body cams.
282
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The officers patrol alone, doubled up.
283
00:14:00.679 --> 00:14:02.759
The only time you see officers in Oklahoma City doubled
284
00:14:02.840 --> 00:14:06.519
up is if it's a new recruit working with a
285
00:14:06.600 --> 00:14:09.440
seasoned officer and they're on their probationary period, then they'll
286
00:14:09.440 --> 00:14:13.279
be doubled up. Otherwise, you work alone, and so you're
287
00:14:13.320 --> 00:14:15.519
not going to every time you take someone in for
288
00:14:15.600 --> 00:14:18.759
some minor infraction, that's a man off the street for
289
00:14:18.919 --> 00:14:21.320
potentially a couple of hours while you book them in,
290
00:14:21.440 --> 00:14:23.919
do the paperwork, do those sorts of things. So I
291
00:14:23.919 --> 00:14:27.240
don't believe there was any Certainly weren't any major arrests,
292
00:14:27.360 --> 00:14:29.360
and it was pretty typical for Daniel and the others
293
00:14:29.360 --> 00:14:32.200
in the area. Unless you're committing a felony, they're probably
294
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not going to go in.
295
00:14:34.039 --> 00:14:36.279
But did he have a lot of contact with or
296
00:14:36.440 --> 00:14:38.919
calls what he was leading paperwork behind like that?
297
00:14:40.679 --> 00:14:43.759
Well, there's always how they pretty much tracked his activity
298
00:14:44.360 --> 00:14:46.879
is you have your radio traffic when you call into
299
00:14:46.879 --> 00:14:49.279
dispatch and you're calling someone's name in and you're running
300
00:14:49.320 --> 00:14:51.759
them for wants and warrants before you're calling yourself out.
301
00:14:51.799 --> 00:14:55.120
I'm at such as his call sign was to Charlie
302
00:14:55.120 --> 00:14:57.840
forty five. And so if you'd go out on a location,
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00:14:58.000 --> 00:14:59.120
be too, Charlie forty five.
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00:14:59.120 --> 00:15:01.200
I'm out with a couple of suspects or a couple
305
00:15:01.159 --> 00:15:01.720
of individuals.
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00:15:01.759 --> 00:15:03.879
He'd give his location that kind of stuff, so that
307
00:15:03.919 --> 00:15:07.879
would count as a stop. They do these field cards
308
00:15:07.879 --> 00:15:09.919
that they would fill out, and they'd provide those field
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00:15:09.960 --> 00:15:13.240
cards over to police intelligence, Like, hey, I stopped a
310
00:15:13.240 --> 00:15:15.240
couple of people. I talked to them, pretty sure they
311
00:15:15.279 --> 00:15:17.320
were dealing dope, but of course I couldn't prove it,
312
00:15:17.639 --> 00:15:19.720
and he would have looked at their IDs and wrote
313
00:15:19.720 --> 00:15:22.039
down their information, and then the gang unit and the
314
00:15:22.080 --> 00:15:25.360
intelligence unit compile all that information to try to develop
315
00:15:25.399 --> 00:15:28.159
intel on the criminal activities. And then of course if
316
00:15:28.200 --> 00:15:30.480
you get sent on a call. You know, in Oklahoma City,
317
00:15:30.720 --> 00:15:32.960
they don't do an awful lot of controlling. It's an
318
00:15:33.000 --> 00:15:37.279
awful lot of dispatching. You're continuously just responding to crimes
319
00:15:37.279 --> 00:15:40.120
that are being reported. You're not really allowed to do
320
00:15:40.759 --> 00:15:43.679
much just proactive work of getting to know the community
321
00:15:43.879 --> 00:15:46.480
because there's so few officers and so many nine to
322
00:15:46.519 --> 00:15:48.480
one one calls coming in, but there was there was
323
00:15:48.559 --> 00:15:52.399
nothing noted at trial that was abnormal about that particular day.
324
00:15:52.519 --> 00:15:54.440
He had just he had gone from call to call
325
00:15:54.519 --> 00:15:56.200
to call, just like most officers do.
326
00:15:56.960 --> 00:15:59.159
Okay, Now he pulls over with Janie Niggins for a
327
00:15:59.279 --> 00:16:00.000
lane chain.
328
00:16:01.799 --> 00:16:04.279
Or well she was in said her car just kind
329
00:16:04.279 --> 00:16:06.679
of floats. It's two lanes in either direction, so a
330
00:16:06.720 --> 00:16:09.200
four lane road, and she just kind of crossed over
331
00:16:09.559 --> 00:16:12.080
from the inside lane to the outside lane where it
332
00:16:12.200 --> 00:16:14.559
hires kind of you know, cross the center line. I
333
00:16:14.600 --> 00:16:16.879
think we've all seen that officers will often use that
334
00:16:17.320 --> 00:16:20.159
as a precursor to allow them to pull somebody over.
335
00:16:20.639 --> 00:16:24.519
And Daniel was this was a high crime, high gang area.
336
00:16:24.840 --> 00:16:27.039
He really thought this was giving him the opportunity to
337
00:16:27.039 --> 00:16:29.440
pull over probably some people that might have some dope
338
00:16:29.480 --> 00:16:31.840
on them, guns they're not supposed to have, or might
339
00:16:32.159 --> 00:16:33.519
turn into a serious arrest.
340
00:16:33.720 --> 00:16:34.639
And it didn't.
341
00:16:35.480 --> 00:16:39.000
Okay, then if you thought this was a possibly gang
342
00:16:39.039 --> 00:16:42.279
bangers in this car, right, wouldn't it be normal procedure
343
00:16:42.320 --> 00:16:44.200
then before he got out of the car to turn
344
00:16:44.240 --> 00:16:46.480
his computer back on and call into the dispatch and
345
00:16:46.480 --> 00:16:48.960
say I'm leaving my car to go visit this car
346
00:16:49.000 --> 00:16:50.399
here with this license plate number.
347
00:16:50.240 --> 00:16:53.840
Running that came up, and again they you know, even
348
00:16:53.879 --> 00:16:56.360
the prosecution had to concede. That just comes down to
349
00:16:56.440 --> 00:17:01.399
officer discretion, you know. When you're some of daniel size
350
00:17:01.480 --> 00:17:04.839
and aptitude out there, he wasn't really known as calling
351
00:17:04.839 --> 00:17:07.240
in a lot of backup. Typically, he's a person who
352
00:17:07.279 --> 00:17:10.559
got called in as backup because he was such a
353
00:17:10.680 --> 00:17:13.920
large person. And he certainly was not afraid to get
354
00:17:13.960 --> 00:17:17.559
into a physical altercation with someone who was going to
355
00:17:17.559 --> 00:17:19.759
try to flee or fight or anything like that. But
356
00:17:20.160 --> 00:17:22.039
under a situation like this, of course it's going to
357
00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:24.799
be the individual officer's call as to what they want
358
00:17:24.839 --> 00:17:25.079
to do.
359
00:17:26.400 --> 00:17:27.039
But he didn't.
360
00:17:27.079 --> 00:17:29.119
For whatever reason, he didn't feel that it was really
361
00:17:29.160 --> 00:17:31.359
anything to be worried about. He walks up to cars
362
00:17:31.400 --> 00:17:34.799
all day long, and quite honestly, and I remember this
363
00:17:34.839 --> 00:17:37.480
did come up at one point. They're stretched so thin
364
00:17:37.519 --> 00:17:40.279
in this area. If you called for backup, you might
365
00:17:40.319 --> 00:17:43.599
be sitting behind that car for fifteen minutes waiting for
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00:17:43.680 --> 00:17:46.200
somebody to show up. It's not like in television where
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00:17:46.240 --> 00:17:48.400
you call it in and thirty seconds later you know
368
00:17:48.480 --> 00:17:50.759
the Calvary's there to back you up.
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00:17:51.440 --> 00:17:53.599
It just isn't something that they normally do.
370
00:17:54.039 --> 00:17:57.480
And another thing that came up that that's problematic is
371
00:17:57.519 --> 00:17:59.200
an awful lot of the people that you stop in
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00:17:59.240 --> 00:18:02.559
these areas because there's a lot of female drug traffic
373
00:18:02.599 --> 00:18:06.440
and prostitution in these areas. Well, male officers are allowed
374
00:18:06.440 --> 00:18:10.160
to put female suspects down because there simply aren't enough
375
00:18:10.160 --> 00:18:12.880
female officers for you to call them in and they
376
00:18:12.880 --> 00:18:14.640
were able to show If you called in a female
377
00:18:14.720 --> 00:18:16.839
officer to do a pack down on somebody or to
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00:18:16.920 --> 00:18:20.799
assist because you have a female defendant or suspect, it
379
00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:23.000
may be forty five minutes or an hour before that
380
00:18:23.119 --> 00:18:25.680
officer could show up. And now you've tied up two
381
00:18:25.720 --> 00:18:28.319
officers for a prolonged period of time in an area
382
00:18:28.359 --> 00:18:31.680
of town that already doesn't have enough officers patrolling. So
383
00:18:32.079 --> 00:18:34.000
I really didn't find that. I don't think anybody else
384
00:18:34.039 --> 00:18:37.079
found it odd. You know, one of the things that
385
00:18:37.200 --> 00:18:38.720
I think might have been a little odd for some
386
00:18:38.759 --> 00:18:40.799
people is you just get an awful lot of officers
387
00:18:40.799 --> 00:18:42.599
at the end of a twelve hour ship. They don't
388
00:18:42.599 --> 00:18:45.000
want to mess with traffic infractions. That's why they turn
389
00:18:45.039 --> 00:18:47.200
their computers off. They just don't want to deal with it.
390
00:18:47.759 --> 00:18:49.680
You got to keep in mind Daniel was an officer
391
00:18:49.680 --> 00:18:51.880
with ten or twenty years in where he's he's just
392
00:18:52.000 --> 00:18:54.880
tired of it already and ready to retire. He had really,
393
00:18:55.240 --> 00:18:57.559
once you take out his time going through the academy
394
00:18:57.559 --> 00:18:59.480
and going through probation, he had only been on the
395
00:18:59.480 --> 00:19:01.960
streets for about two years, so he was he was
396
00:19:02.000 --> 00:19:04.880
still a pretty gung ho patrol officer at this point.
397
00:19:05.319 --> 00:19:08.759
But it's not a procedure down there in Oklahoma City
398
00:19:08.799 --> 00:19:11.640
for an officer not called for backup, but just to
399
00:19:11.759 --> 00:19:13.200
call in and say I'm leaving they have a code,
400
00:19:13.200 --> 00:19:15.759
I'm leaving my car now exiting the you know, and
401
00:19:15.799 --> 00:19:17.839
then actually to give the plate number of the car
402
00:19:17.880 --> 00:19:18.680
you're approaching.
403
00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:22.160
It's not a policy, it's it's certainly I would say,
404
00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:25.079
would be highly advisable, but that is not it's not
405
00:19:25.119 --> 00:19:26.200
a policy violation.
406
00:19:26.319 --> 00:19:28.200
They don't have to call those things in.
407
00:19:28.640 --> 00:19:31.799
It certainly suggested for officers safety that they do so
408
00:19:31.839 --> 00:19:33.279
if all of a sudden you don't hear them on
409
00:19:33.400 --> 00:19:35.359
radio traffic, you can't get them on the radio for
410
00:19:35.400 --> 00:19:37.640
ten minutes, you've got some sort of idea what they
411
00:19:37.640 --> 00:19:38.559
were last doing.
412
00:19:39.119 --> 00:19:41.680
But it was not a violation of any policies.
413
00:19:42.279 --> 00:19:44.759
Okay, now, and when you said that, he had her
414
00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:48.480
exit the car and go to the hood of his car. Now,
415
00:19:48.799 --> 00:19:51.079
at any time, he never turned his computer back on
416
00:19:51.240 --> 00:19:52.519
to run her for warrants.
417
00:19:53.079 --> 00:19:53.119
No.
418
00:19:53.599 --> 00:19:57.160
Once he made contact with her and she gave a story,
419
00:19:57.240 --> 00:19:59.000
she was able to give an address where she had
420
00:19:59.039 --> 00:20:01.960
just come from, the name of the person she'd just
421
00:20:02.079 --> 00:20:05.640
been with. She's she's got an open drink like maybe
422
00:20:05.680 --> 00:20:07.960
a red Solo cuff or something like that with her.
423
00:20:08.279 --> 00:20:09.000
He smells it.
424
00:20:09.519 --> 00:20:11.880
He can't tell that there's any alcohol in it, even
425
00:20:11.880 --> 00:20:14.519
though she does look a little suspicious for at two
426
00:20:14.519 --> 00:20:16.319
am to be out looking the way that she does.
427
00:20:16.880 --> 00:20:19.119
He pretty much assessed at this point that her story,
428
00:20:19.279 --> 00:20:21.440
you know, seems to check out, seems to be true.
429
00:20:21.720 --> 00:20:25.880
His other problem was she, she expressed to him, asked
430
00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:28.359
for a driver's license and insurance. Well, she didn't have
431
00:20:28.440 --> 00:20:30.079
either one, and come to find out she hadn't had
432
00:20:30.119 --> 00:20:32.960
a driver's license in thirty years. Of course, also to
433
00:20:32.960 --> 00:20:35.200
come to find out she had been pulled over many
434
00:20:35.240 --> 00:20:38.000
many times without that driver's license, without that insurance, and
435
00:20:38.079 --> 00:20:41.319
had never been arrested for it. And even the prosecution, well,
436
00:20:41.359 --> 00:20:46.799
one of the main investigators against Holtzklaw even testified that
437
00:20:47.079 --> 00:20:51.039
that one in Oklahoma in general, one in three people
438
00:20:51.119 --> 00:20:55.319
does not carry insurance on their vehicle, even though legally
439
00:20:55.359 --> 00:20:58.119
they're supposed to, and that pulling people over and finding
440
00:20:58.119 --> 00:21:00.359
out they don't have a driver's license or insurance on
441
00:21:00.359 --> 00:21:03.680
this part of town was extremely common, and that it
442
00:21:03.759 --> 00:21:06.599
was not uncommon for those people not to be arrested
443
00:21:06.680 --> 00:21:09.400
or not even to be ticketed, because it's just it's
444
00:21:09.440 --> 00:21:12.480
so chronic in these neighborhoods. And we were able to
445
00:21:12.480 --> 00:21:14.680
show where Jane You'd been pulled over several times and
446
00:21:14.960 --> 00:21:17.599
didn't have any of these credentials, and she still wasn't arrested,
447
00:21:17.599 --> 00:21:20.000
So it wasn't odd that Daniel didn't do anything either.
448
00:21:20.519 --> 00:21:22.480
And Daniel's explanation for that was.
449
00:21:22.920 --> 00:21:24.720
If I took her in, if I towed her car
450
00:21:24.759 --> 00:21:27.480
and I took her in to jail for it, Well, one,
451
00:21:27.519 --> 00:21:29.599
if she doesn't have a license and doesn't have insurance
452
00:21:29.599 --> 00:21:32.200
and she's driving this old beat her car, probably not
453
00:21:32.240 --> 00:21:33.880
going to be able to bond out, She's not going
454
00:21:33.920 --> 00:21:35.880
to be able to pay the ticket. Another warrant will
455
00:21:35.880 --> 00:21:38.519
be issued for arrest when she doesn't pay her ticket.
456
00:21:39.160 --> 00:21:40.960
So he was just going to just going to let
457
00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:43.480
her go. Plus it was also going to add probably
458
00:21:43.519 --> 00:21:45.920
two hours onto his twelve hour shifts. So now he's
459
00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:48.359
fourteen hours before he gets to go home, and he's
460
00:21:48.359 --> 00:21:50.519
got to be back at work later that afternoon. So
461
00:21:50.960 --> 00:21:53.359
after talking to her for about ten minutes or so,
462
00:21:53.680 --> 00:21:55.720
he decides to go ahead and just let her go.
463
00:21:55.839 --> 00:22:00.559
And all of those things, even the investigator who were
464
00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:02.680
working against Daniel, they all admitted a trial.
465
00:22:02.960 --> 00:22:05.640
None of those things were policy violations. Some of them
466
00:22:05.640 --> 00:22:08.599
were probably ill advised just for his own safety, but
467
00:22:08.680 --> 00:22:10.400
none of them broke the law, and none of them
468
00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:11.640
were even against policy.
469
00:22:12.359 --> 00:22:14.119
I'd tell you I should move over there, man. I
470
00:22:14.119 --> 00:22:17.400
got pulled over once with no insurance at a thousand dollars.
471
00:22:18.039 --> 00:22:21.880
That's fine, that TV what happened to me, And you know,
472
00:22:21.920 --> 00:22:23.640
it's one of those things they just kind of laughed off.
473
00:22:23.839 --> 00:22:27.119
You know, it's officer discretion, and a lot of new
474
00:22:27.119 --> 00:22:29.680
officers might arrest people and take people. But then you
475
00:22:29.759 --> 00:22:32.200
realize in those parts of town it is so common
476
00:22:32.440 --> 00:22:35.559
you would literally spend your entire shift doing nothing but
477
00:22:35.920 --> 00:22:38.720
taking people to the jail for not having insurance or
478
00:22:38.759 --> 00:22:41.759
driver's license. Now, some citizens like me may say, well,
479
00:22:41.880 --> 00:22:43.880
so what you know they need to get because one
480
00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:45.319
of the people is going to end up running into
481
00:22:45.319 --> 00:22:46.920
me and they're not going to have any insurance. But
482
00:22:47.480 --> 00:22:49.759
it's just something that unless you live in one of
483
00:22:49.759 --> 00:22:52.279
these parts of town and you realize that's the norm,
484
00:22:52.640 --> 00:22:55.920
walking around with misdemeanor warrants, walking around without an ID,
485
00:22:56.359 --> 00:22:59.319
walking around without driver's license or an insurance, that's just
486
00:22:59.359 --> 00:22:59.640
sort of.
487
00:22:59.640 --> 00:23:01.119
A norm in these parts of town.
488
00:23:02.200 --> 00:23:04.960
I'd see. Now you said that she had been pulled
489
00:23:04.960 --> 00:23:08.160
over many times before with no driver's license and no
490
00:23:08.240 --> 00:23:09.759
insurance and was never arrested.
491
00:23:10.319 --> 00:23:12.039
I don't want to say many times, because that means
492
00:23:12.079 --> 00:23:15.640
different things to different people. But there were instances, a
493
00:23:15.680 --> 00:23:18.839
handful three or four times over thirty years, she had
494
00:23:18.880 --> 00:23:22.079
been pulled over and there was no no evidence that
495
00:23:22.519 --> 00:23:25.039
they did anything about it, and they certainly didn't arrest
496
00:23:25.039 --> 00:23:25.640
her over it.
497
00:23:26.039 --> 00:23:28.200
And we know about that because those offices called in.
498
00:23:29.200 --> 00:23:31.000
Well, there'll be a history of it, right right, there'll
499
00:23:31.000 --> 00:23:33.319
be a history that that that happened, that it called
500
00:23:33.319 --> 00:23:35.960
in and she was given a warning or those sorts
501
00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:38.759
of things, and there'll be a history that that happened.
502
00:23:39.279 --> 00:23:43.880
In Daniel's case, it wasn't documented that way. However, she
503
00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:46.519
made her complaint, you know, within a couple of hours
504
00:23:46.519 --> 00:23:49.640
of being pulled over, which to her favor, she did
505
00:23:49.640 --> 00:23:53.200
that because you try to look for things that someone does,
506
00:23:53.240 --> 00:23:56.880
and the profile is someone who may potentially really be
507
00:23:56.960 --> 00:24:00.440
a victim. And she did report almost immediately, though there's
508
00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:03.480
some problems with her reporting, but she did report. But
509
00:24:03.559 --> 00:24:07.920
the next day, when Daniel comes into report to lineup
510
00:24:07.960 --> 00:24:10.960
before they go out on patrol, they just asked a
511
00:24:11.000 --> 00:24:13.720
general question, Hey, did anybody here happen to pull someone
512
00:24:13.759 --> 00:24:16.279
over at Northeast fiftieth and Lincoln Boulevard around two am
513
00:24:16.359 --> 00:24:18.799
last night? And Daniel immediately said, yeah, that was me.
514
00:24:19.240 --> 00:24:21.880
And now they already thought that it probably was Daniel.
515
00:24:21.880 --> 00:24:24.279
They had been investigating this, you know, all evening all
516
00:24:24.319 --> 00:24:27.000
the next day, and they felt that it was probably
517
00:24:27.079 --> 00:24:29.599
Daniel who had done that, but they wanted to see
518
00:24:29.599 --> 00:24:32.799
if he would self identify, and he did immediately, and
519
00:24:32.839 --> 00:24:35.759
then they hook him in and did what they called
520
00:24:35.759 --> 00:24:38.920
an interview, but it was really an interrogation from from
521
00:24:38.920 --> 00:24:41.079
that point on. But no, there was no there was
522
00:24:41.160 --> 00:24:43.880
no record of the stop other than him when he
523
00:24:43.920 --> 00:24:45.480
was asked about it the next day he said, Yeah,
524
00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:49.079
that was me. I stopped some ladies. She was driving
525
00:24:49.279 --> 00:24:52.160
slightly erradically and I just let her go.
526
00:24:52.960 --> 00:24:55.640
Okay, good time. Take a commercial break with Brian Bates
527
00:24:55.720 --> 00:24:59.960
is a private investigator. We're talking about the Daniel holtzklaw case.
528
00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:05.880
Check out to Holtzclaw Trial dot com. It's h Oltzclawtrial
529
00:25:05.920 --> 00:25:10.000
dot com. We'll be right back with more of Danielbryan
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and Brian. And now a word from our.
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We all have questions, did he do it? Or did
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and on Friday nights too, we do a live portion
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for one hour that I just do a live monologue.
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The ads are very, very inexpensive, and they're also played
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a little special deal there when you get a discount
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if you paypound me directly and you can get a
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copy of my book. I want to thank William Ramsey
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who helps us produce the show and book guests. You
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can find William Ramsey, who's an excellent author at William
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Ramsey Investigates on YouTube. Okay, welcome back to the Opperman Report.
585
00:28:26.839 --> 00:28:31.759
We're here today with Brian Bates, private investigator. Basinvestigates dot
586
00:28:31.759 --> 00:28:34.880
com and we're talking about the Daniel holtz Claw trial.
587
00:28:35.400 --> 00:28:38.720
It's a Holtsclawprial dot Com is the website we can
588
00:28:38.759 --> 00:28:41.519
find more information on this love the way to tell
589
00:28:41.559 --> 00:28:44.720
the story, Daniel. Where can we find when your podcast
590
00:28:44.759 --> 00:28:46.240
is going to start playing? Where you going to play,
591
00:28:46.240 --> 00:28:47.720
what a per format you can use?
592
00:28:47.759 --> 00:28:51.680
What platform well, hopefully will be available on all of
593
00:28:51.720 --> 00:28:55.880
your major platforms, you know, through iTunes and you know
594
00:28:56.279 --> 00:28:58.240
what are all of your major platforms, and you'll be
595
00:28:58.279 --> 00:29:00.960
able to, you know, see what I episodes are available
596
00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:03.799
in that at Holtzclawtrial dot Com where I'm literally calling
597
00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:07.640
it at this point Holdsclawtrial dot Com the podcast and
598
00:29:08.240 --> 00:29:12.599
really the whole idea of doing a podcast, you know,
599
00:29:12.640 --> 00:29:15.880
this many years later after the trial is and something we.
600
00:29:15.799 --> 00:29:17.720
Really haven't talked about yet. I am.
601
00:29:17.880 --> 00:29:21.599
I'm one hundred percent convinced after being one of the
602
00:29:21.640 --> 00:29:24.599
only people who's won sat down and talked with Daniel
603
00:29:24.680 --> 00:29:27.720
Daniel never testifight at his own trial. I've spent literally
604
00:29:27.839 --> 00:29:31.720
hundreds of hours with him. I've gone through every piece
605
00:29:31.759 --> 00:29:35.400
of discovery evidence. I've been to the scenes multiple times,
606
00:29:35.480 --> 00:29:39.200
I've talked with these people, I've watched every interview, I've
607
00:29:39.240 --> 00:29:42.400
gone through every police report. Not only is there not
608
00:29:42.480 --> 00:29:46.119
a single piece, not a single piece of direct forensic
609
00:29:46.160 --> 00:29:48.839
evidence that a single one of these thirty six crimes
610
00:29:48.920 --> 00:29:52.599
was committed, but there's also not a single independent third
611
00:29:52.680 --> 00:29:55.799
party witness. Now, some people go, Okay, that's lawyer talk
612
00:29:55.880 --> 00:29:58.039
or PI talk for my guy did it, but.
613
00:29:58.039 --> 00:30:00.319
You can't prove it. I'll go beyond that.
614
00:30:00.960 --> 00:30:04.079
I feel one hundred percent that Daniel Holtz Claude did
615
00:30:04.119 --> 00:30:08.160
not commit a single one of the allegations, let alone
616
00:30:08.799 --> 00:30:12.160
the eighteen that he was actually convicted for and basically
617
00:30:12.160 --> 00:30:15.400
given a life sentence over. And the whole idea behind
618
00:30:15.400 --> 00:30:18.880
the podcast is, I want the public to be able
619
00:30:18.920 --> 00:30:21.839
to see every piece of discovery evidence. I want them
620
00:30:21.880 --> 00:30:24.160
to read every police report, I want them to see
621
00:30:24.519 --> 00:30:28.480
every videotaped interview, listen to every audio interview. And so
622
00:30:28.519 --> 00:30:30.440
the whole purpose of the podcast is at the end
623
00:30:30.519 --> 00:30:32.599
of each episode, and there's going to be many episodes,
624
00:30:32.640 --> 00:30:35.599
at the end of each episode, all of the corresponding
625
00:30:35.640 --> 00:30:39.640
discovery evidence that goes with that episode will be posted online,
626
00:30:39.680 --> 00:30:42.359
so people can't say, well, that's Brian's take on it,
627
00:30:42.519 --> 00:30:45.000
but what did the report really say? The report will
628
00:30:45.039 --> 00:30:47.480
be there online and everybody will get to read it,
629
00:30:47.640 --> 00:30:50.640
and everybody, I'm hoping, will come to the same conclusion
630
00:30:50.640 --> 00:30:53.240
that I did, that justice was not served. And you
631
00:30:53.359 --> 00:30:56.920
do not send anybody, let alone police officers, to jail
632
00:30:57.160 --> 00:31:00.160
for the rest of their lives on the word of
633
00:31:00.200 --> 00:31:07.319
crack addicts, street prostitutes, terrible, terrible investigative work and not
634
00:31:07.480 --> 00:31:10.640
have a single piece of actual, direct forensic evidence, and
635
00:31:10.680 --> 00:31:13.799
you can't produce a single witness. Daniel is not a
636
00:31:13.880 --> 00:31:17.400
mastermind criminal, and it would take a mastermind criminal to
637
00:31:17.519 --> 00:31:21.160
have thirteen victims, thirty six crimes, and seventeen crime scenes
638
00:31:21.279 --> 00:31:22.920
and not leave any evidence.
639
00:31:24.680 --> 00:31:27.720
Okay, we'll get into that, but I want to fish
640
00:31:27.799 --> 00:31:30.920
up with Ligands here because now, how does she make
641
00:31:30.920 --> 00:31:32.240
her complaint to the police at night?
642
00:31:33.039 --> 00:31:35.240
Well, what she did, and again I give this to
643
00:31:35.279 --> 00:31:39.000
her credit. She did like a victim would and this
644
00:31:39.039 --> 00:31:41.680
is why and something for many months when I met
645
00:31:41.720 --> 00:31:43.759
with Daniel, I would tell him when he would ask me,
646
00:31:43.799 --> 00:31:45.640
do you think I did it and I would say, well,
647
00:31:45.680 --> 00:31:48.000
I think you probably did something that you're accused of.
648
00:31:48.079 --> 00:31:49.359
I just got to figure out what it is.
649
00:31:49.400 --> 00:31:51.279
And it took me a long time before I realized
650
00:31:51.480 --> 00:31:52.920
he didn't do any of these things. But one of
651
00:31:52.920 --> 00:31:56.920
the most compelling accusers is Jannie Liggins and she after
652
00:31:57.000 --> 00:32:00.000
the traffic stop, and if you go to Holtz Culture
653
00:32:00.519 --> 00:32:02.640
where you go to the YouTube page holds Claw trial,
654
00:32:02.920 --> 00:32:05.319
I actually have the video from the traffic stop. There
655
00:32:05.359 --> 00:32:08.480
was a surveillance camera on a building right there where
656
00:32:08.480 --> 00:32:10.440
they were parked. Now, it's a grainy it's at night,
657
00:32:10.480 --> 00:32:12.640
but you can see people moving around. You can get
658
00:32:12.640 --> 00:32:15.880
an idea of what's happening that's posted online. Well, you
659
00:32:15.920 --> 00:32:17.960
see her driving go on about her way. You see
660
00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:21.640
Daniel going about his way. Apparently Janie Liggins drives home.
661
00:32:21.680 --> 00:32:23.559
She lives on the other part of town. She lives
662
00:32:23.680 --> 00:32:28.359
in an apartment complex. She lives with her boyfriend of
663
00:32:28.519 --> 00:32:31.680
about thirty years, and they live with her adult daughter
664
00:32:31.839 --> 00:32:36.079
who also lives with her boyfriend, and then the adult
665
00:32:36.160 --> 00:32:38.160
daughter's children. So it's a whole lot of people packed
666
00:32:38.160 --> 00:32:40.920
into this very small apartment. She heads home and when
667
00:32:40.920 --> 00:32:45.559
she gets home, according to Jannieliggins. She wakes up, or
668
00:32:45.640 --> 00:32:47.400
maybe her daughter was still awake at this point, I
669
00:32:47.400 --> 00:32:50.000
don't recall. Anyway, she has a discussion with her adult
670
00:32:50.039 --> 00:32:53.119
daughter and reportedly claims that she was sexually assaulted by
671
00:32:53.319 --> 00:32:57.759
Daniel holts Claw. Then she gets in the car with
672
00:32:57.799 --> 00:33:00.839
her daughter, wake up her boyfriend, a boyfriend.
673
00:33:01.359 --> 00:33:02.160
He goes to work.
674
00:33:02.200 --> 00:33:04.000
He works somewhere where he's got to be there, probably
675
00:33:04.000 --> 00:33:06.039
around four or five in the morning, so he about
676
00:33:06.079 --> 00:33:07.920
four in the morning, maybe he leaves and goes to work.
677
00:33:08.480 --> 00:33:10.119
And this is where it gets a little strange because
678
00:33:10.240 --> 00:33:13.720
the boyfriend, he reported a completely different story. He reported
679
00:33:13.759 --> 00:33:17.319
that Janie Liggins called him on her way home and said,
680
00:33:17.319 --> 00:33:19.480
I've just been raped by an Oklahoma City police officer.
681
00:33:19.519 --> 00:33:21.319
I'm scared to death. Stay on the phone with me.
682
00:33:21.559 --> 00:33:23.559
I'm on my way home. And he was so worried
683
00:33:23.559 --> 00:33:25.279
about her. He was waiting in the front yard when
684
00:33:25.279 --> 00:33:27.319
she got there, and that even though he had to
685
00:33:27.319 --> 00:33:29.799
go to work because he can't lose his job, that
686
00:33:29.880 --> 00:33:33.359
he followed in his car until Jane got met up
687
00:33:33.400 --> 00:33:35.359
with police officers that were not one of the ones
688
00:33:35.359 --> 00:33:37.799
that assaulted her. Then and only then did he go
689
00:33:37.880 --> 00:33:41.200
on to work. Well, that didn't match Janie's story. Janey said, well, no,
690
00:33:41.279 --> 00:33:42.880
I didn't call him because I didn't know where my
691
00:33:42.920 --> 00:33:45.599
phone was. I actually thought I lost my phone during
692
00:33:45.640 --> 00:33:47.359
the traffic stop, but come to find out, I was
693
00:33:47.359 --> 00:33:49.519
sitting on it. And when I got home, I spoke
694
00:33:49.559 --> 00:33:51.640
with my daughter, and my boyfriend was asleep and we
695
00:33:51.680 --> 00:33:53.759
had to wake him up. And then after we woke
696
00:33:53.839 --> 00:33:57.160
him up, he went on to work and we went
697
00:33:57.200 --> 00:34:00.839
and reported it. So there was a pretty significant difference there.
698
00:34:01.240 --> 00:34:03.720
But what it appears that happened is is regardless of
699
00:34:04.039 --> 00:34:06.640
who was awake and who told who what whatever, she
700
00:34:06.839 --> 00:34:10.760
drove across town for whatever reason, passed the downtown Oklahoma
701
00:34:10.760 --> 00:34:13.320
City Police station, which is the main headquarters. It's opened
702
00:34:13.320 --> 00:34:15.960
twenty four hours a day. They drive past it, and
703
00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:18.280
they go back over into the spring Lake district where
704
00:34:18.320 --> 00:34:20.280
she was pulled over, and they go to the spring
705
00:34:20.360 --> 00:34:23.559
Lake Briefing Station, which is a very small police office.
706
00:34:23.639 --> 00:34:26.719
It's closed, it's not open twenty four hours. So as
707
00:34:26.760 --> 00:34:29.280
they're leaving that area, they see two officers pulled over
708
00:34:29.320 --> 00:34:32.159
in a parking lot literally a block away from where
709
00:34:32.159 --> 00:34:34.320
she says she was sexually assaulted. So there was a
710
00:34:34.400 --> 00:34:37.440
high probability one of those officers might still be Daniel
711
00:34:37.440 --> 00:34:40.159
Holtzclaw and they pull up and it's not. It's two
712
00:34:40.199 --> 00:34:43.400
other officers, and she says she wants to group for
713
00:34:43.559 --> 00:34:47.000
it being sexually assaulted by ancclomacy police officer. At that moment,
714
00:34:47.039 --> 00:34:51.320
those officers immediately notify a dispatch to send out a
715
00:34:51.360 --> 00:34:56.039
supervisor and to start the sexual assault investigator to the scene.
716
00:34:56.440 --> 00:34:59.320
And then Jane is taken to a local hospital where
717
00:34:59.360 --> 00:35:03.079
she's given a saint exam or a rape kit that
718
00:35:03.119 --> 00:35:06.840
comes back negative for the presence of any indicators that
719
00:35:06.880 --> 00:35:10.360
she had been sexually assaulted or engaged any sexual activity,
720
00:35:10.719 --> 00:35:13.559
and then she gives her account of what happened to.
721
00:35:13.880 --> 00:35:17.280
The lead detective. The lead detective is Kim Davis.
722
00:35:17.760 --> 00:35:21.159
And oddly enough, even though Kim Davis either audio or
723
00:35:21.239 --> 00:35:24.880
video recorded most of the other accusers, she did not
724
00:35:25.199 --> 00:35:28.719
audio or video record the statements of Janie Leggins. Yet
725
00:35:28.760 --> 00:35:32.800
at trial she proclaimed that Janie Lyggins was so convincing
726
00:35:33.159 --> 00:35:35.920
she became convinced that Janie Liggins was telling the truth
727
00:35:36.280 --> 00:35:38.760
before she had ever even talked to Daniel holtz Clau,
728
00:35:38.840 --> 00:35:41.480
before they'd ever done any investigation. She went on the
729
00:35:41.480 --> 00:35:44.800
record at trial and said I believe Janie before I
730
00:35:44.880 --> 00:35:47.880
did anything else because of the way Janie was acting
731
00:35:47.880 --> 00:35:50.199
and how she talked, but that she didn't bother to
732
00:35:50.239 --> 00:35:52.159
record this so the rest of us could get that
733
00:35:52.199 --> 00:35:54.880
same sense. As a matter of fact, she lied during
734
00:35:54.920 --> 00:35:58.800
the trial and said that officers, we don't record statements
735
00:35:58.800 --> 00:36:02.079
from sexual assault victim. Well, apparently she forgot that they
736
00:36:02.119 --> 00:36:05.159
actually had recordings from many of the sexual assault victims.
737
00:36:05.199 --> 00:36:07.800
So I don't understand why she was trying to mislead
738
00:36:07.800 --> 00:36:11.000
people there when it was so easy to disprove. But regardless,
739
00:36:11.119 --> 00:36:13.719
Janey made the report, she did the same Saint exam.
740
00:36:13.840 --> 00:36:18.320
Saint Exam came back negative. Police took her allegations very seriously.
741
00:36:19.000 --> 00:36:21.280
They went and found her vehicle that she'd been driving,
742
00:36:21.280 --> 00:36:23.159
which her husband drove to work that day.
743
00:36:23.880 --> 00:36:25.480
They processed that vehicle.
744
00:36:26.039 --> 00:36:30.119
They immediately took Daniel's car and they processed his vehicle
745
00:36:30.559 --> 00:36:34.480
because some things that became very important were when Daniel
746
00:36:34.519 --> 00:36:37.920
gets interrogated, which is only hours after this traffic stop,
747
00:36:37.960 --> 00:36:38.840
it's the next afternoon.
748
00:36:38.880 --> 00:36:40.199
He pulls her over at two am.
749
00:36:40.480 --> 00:36:43.480
Around three o'clock the next afternoon, he's in the interrogation
750
00:36:43.639 --> 00:36:47.760
room and they're interrogating him. That an unredacted version or
751
00:36:47.920 --> 00:36:51.880
underredacted copy of that interrogation is also available at Holtzclawtrial
752
00:36:51.960 --> 00:36:54.639
dot com or more specifically on the holtz Claw Trial
753
00:36:54.880 --> 00:36:57.960
YouTube paging, and you can watch that interrogation. In my
754
00:36:58.079 --> 00:37:02.199
opinion and in Daniel's family's opinion, they're watching innocent man
755
00:37:02.559 --> 00:37:04.880
not understand what's happening to him, and he's being as
756
00:37:04.920 --> 00:37:06.280
honest as he possibly can.
757
00:37:06.719 --> 00:37:08.719
There are some really key points.
758
00:37:08.400 --> 00:37:13.320
During that during that interview process, a couple of things was,
759
00:37:13.320 --> 00:37:16.039
it's one of the most odd interrogation videos you will
760
00:37:16.119 --> 00:37:18.199
you will ever watch. Some of the things that these
761
00:37:18.199 --> 00:37:23.000
seasoned sex crimes investigators said are extremely odd.
762
00:37:23.039 --> 00:37:24.800
I've got a piece of audio that I'd.
763
00:37:24.679 --> 00:37:27.199
Like to queue up here that is this is moments
764
00:37:27.199 --> 00:37:30.760
after Daniel has come into the interrogation room and he's
765
00:37:30.800 --> 00:37:35.320
meeting detectives Kim Davis, who's a female, and Detective Rocky Gregory,
766
00:37:35.360 --> 00:37:35.920
who's a male.
767
00:37:35.960 --> 00:37:37.800
They're both seasoned officers, and.
768
00:37:38.800 --> 00:37:42.440
This is how they open up a discussion that they're
769
00:37:42.480 --> 00:37:44.400
getting ready to have with an officer on a sexual
770
00:37:44.440 --> 00:37:57.480
assault claim. And I'll play this real quick, as I
771
00:37:57.519 --> 00:38:00.159
don't know if you heard that how clearly. But the
772
00:38:00.440 --> 00:38:04.920
start off their conversation without any any lead up to it, going,
773
00:38:05.119 --> 00:38:05.920
this is what ch hand.
774
00:38:05.840 --> 00:38:06.760
I masturbate with.
775
00:38:06.960 --> 00:38:09.039
They're not, I mean, he's just giving Daniels has given
776
00:38:09.079 --> 00:38:11.880
his name and his badge number and just sitting down.
777
00:38:12.239 --> 00:38:15.440
And they're immediately talking. You know, Rocky saying I'm asturbate
778
00:38:15.519 --> 00:38:17.679
with this hand and the female detectives saying I use
779
00:38:17.719 --> 00:38:22.719
boat hands. It's the most odd interrogation that you've ever heard.
780
00:38:22.800 --> 00:38:25.440
But beyond that, that's how it started. But beyond that,
781
00:38:25.639 --> 00:38:30.480
there were some very key differences between what Daniel said
782
00:38:30.519 --> 00:38:32.840
happened that night, beyond the sexual assault, and what Janie
783
00:38:32.880 --> 00:38:34.880
Liggins said. And these are things that could be proved
784
00:38:34.880 --> 00:38:38.360
in one way or another, and every single time the
785
00:38:38.480 --> 00:38:41.239
proof fell in disfavor. And a couple of examples are
786
00:38:41.679 --> 00:38:44.760
Jenigans tells the police that when Daniel pulls her over,
787
00:38:45.039 --> 00:38:46.960
he has her get out of the car and then
788
00:38:47.039 --> 00:38:49.719
he has her place her hands on the hood of
789
00:38:49.719 --> 00:38:52.639
his car while he padded her down something I'm sure
790
00:38:52.719 --> 00:38:56.599
she's probably seen on cops or TV shows or movies,
791
00:38:56.840 --> 00:38:58.000
and then puts her in the car.
792
00:38:58.400 --> 00:39:00.920
It's more like a felony stop. So they asked Daniel,
793
00:39:01.519 --> 00:39:02.039
so when.
794
00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:03.840
You got Jennie Liggins out of the car, you took
795
00:39:03.840 --> 00:39:05.400
her to the front of your car and you patted
796
00:39:05.440 --> 00:39:07.760
her down, And he goes, no, there wasn't any I
797
00:39:07.760 --> 00:39:09.800
didn't really feel there was any reason to pat her down.
798
00:39:09.840 --> 00:39:12.679
I didn't feel like she was probably concealing anything or whatever.
799
00:39:12.719 --> 00:39:14.079
I just got straight into the back of the car.
800
00:39:14.159 --> 00:39:17.519
So that's a significant difference. So they immediately processed the
801
00:39:17.519 --> 00:39:21.159
hood of his car, Jennie Lyggins's fingerprints or DNA or
802
00:39:21.199 --> 00:39:23.840
anywhere on the hood of that car. So that is
803
00:39:23.840 --> 00:39:25.599
to show that Daniel was the one telling the truth
804
00:39:25.599 --> 00:39:27.840
at that point. Then later on in the story, Jenny L.
805
00:39:27.840 --> 00:39:30.559
Liggins says there were a couple of cars driving by
806
00:39:30.639 --> 00:39:33.119
on the street and so Daniel placed his hands up
807
00:39:33.159 --> 00:39:35.920
on top of his car as he leaned in and
808
00:39:35.960 --> 00:39:38.480
forced me to perform oral sex, and he was trying
809
00:39:38.519 --> 00:39:41.159
to block the view of passing car. Well, there's two
810
00:39:41.199 --> 00:39:44.039
problems with that statement. One, they were in the far
811
00:39:44.400 --> 00:39:47.480
north lane up against the curb. Any cars that went
812
00:39:47.519 --> 00:39:49.760
by them would be to the south of them, So
813
00:39:49.920 --> 00:39:52.760
Daniel leaning into his car isn't blocking anything because the
814
00:39:52.760 --> 00:39:54.440
cars aren't on the north side of him. They're on
815
00:39:54.480 --> 00:39:57.519
the south side of him. But regardless, they asked, Daniel, so,
816
00:39:57.559 --> 00:40:00.480
when you were talking to Jennie Lyiggins, and you know
817
00:40:00.519 --> 00:40:02.400
you're probably having a hard time hearing her because of
818
00:40:02.440 --> 00:40:04.840
the traffic and other things, so you leaned in and
819
00:40:04.880 --> 00:40:06.679
then she said, you put your hands up on top
820
00:40:06.719 --> 00:40:08.840
of the car as you leaned in, And he goes, no,
821
00:40:09.119 --> 00:40:10.960
I never put my hands up on top of my car.
822
00:40:11.039 --> 00:40:13.920
That they wouldn't be a safe position to be in
823
00:40:13.920 --> 00:40:16.800
in case, you know, something happened. And sure enough they
824
00:40:16.880 --> 00:40:19.840
processed the top of his car, his fingerprints and DNA.
825
00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:22.039
None of that exists on the top of his car.
826
00:40:22.480 --> 00:40:23.920
Then another example, let.
827
00:40:23.800 --> 00:40:25.119
Me stop you there for a second. Was he in
828
00:40:25.119 --> 00:40:26.599
the habit of wearing gloves. You see a lot of
829
00:40:26.639 --> 00:40:27.440
cops that wear glove.
830
00:40:27.639 --> 00:40:30.440
No, no, no gloves. He doesn't wear gloves.
831
00:40:31.079 --> 00:40:32.840
Does he carried gloves with him?
832
00:40:33.679 --> 00:40:35.719
It never came up if he carried any gloves, if
833
00:40:35.719 --> 00:40:38.920
he ever had gloves on him at any time. But
834
00:40:38.960 --> 00:40:41.440
there was certainly there was never any concern that came up,
835
00:40:41.440 --> 00:40:44.880
and certainly the prosecution never tried to forward that Daniel
836
00:40:45.360 --> 00:40:47.400
wore gloves. I know in all the pictures that we
837
00:40:47.480 --> 00:40:49.639
have and all the other evidence that we had with Daniel,
838
00:40:49.840 --> 00:40:53.360
he never has gloves on. In my interactions with officers.
839
00:40:53.480 --> 00:40:55.679
The only time I ever see them with gloves is
840
00:40:55.760 --> 00:40:57.960
if they're dealing somethings. They deal with some of our
841
00:40:58.760 --> 00:41:01.360
homeless or someone who's been in an accident, and they've
842
00:41:01.400 --> 00:41:02.880
got these I guess they are issued to him, these
843
00:41:02.880 --> 00:41:06.519
really bright purple latex gloves that they may put on
844
00:41:06.599 --> 00:41:08.960
at that point at a scene. But that was something
845
00:41:09.000 --> 00:41:10.960
that never came up or an issue was, you know,
846
00:41:11.000 --> 00:41:13.679
did he have gloves on? She certainly didn't mention that
847
00:41:13.760 --> 00:41:17.360
he ever had any gloves on. And then one other
848
00:41:17.400 --> 00:41:19.280
example I wanted to give real quick because she claimed
849
00:41:19.280 --> 00:41:21.840
that when he was forcing her to perform oral sex
850
00:41:21.920 --> 00:41:26.079
that it was over with pretty quickly because a metallic
851
00:41:26.159 --> 00:41:29.960
gold colored suv drove by very slowly, and because it
852
00:41:30.039 --> 00:41:33.159
drove by slowly, it made Daniel nervous, so he immediately
853
00:41:33.199 --> 00:41:36.440
stopped her from performing oral sex and said, okay, you
854
00:41:36.480 --> 00:41:39.079
can go and her leave and he left. Well, when
855
00:41:39.119 --> 00:41:41.840
you actually watch the surveillance video which is online, you
856
00:41:41.880 --> 00:41:44.760
see at the point that this metallic colored suv drives by,
857
00:41:45.119 --> 00:41:48.920
it's almost a full two minutes later before Jannieliggins ever.
858
00:41:48.760 --> 00:41:49.920
Walks back to her car.
859
00:41:50.639 --> 00:41:53.440
So there are some pretty critical details that in each
860
00:41:53.480 --> 00:41:57.840
instance Daniel says he's being truthful, Janie says she's being truthful,
861
00:41:58.039 --> 00:42:02.000
But the evidence in each time supports Daniel's version of events,
862
00:42:02.000 --> 00:42:04.400
which to me I thought was very telling, considering she
863
00:42:04.519 --> 00:42:07.960
was probably the most credible of all of the accusers.
864
00:42:08.480 --> 00:42:11.639
Another reason I thought that possibly this woman was telling
865
00:42:11.679 --> 00:42:15.480
the truth initially was because in something that's replayed in
866
00:42:15.480 --> 00:42:17.559
the media over and over and over again is why
867
00:42:17.559 --> 00:42:20.079
would this woman lie? Why would this fifty seven year
868
00:42:20.119 --> 00:42:23.480
old grandmother lie? And they always say this over you
869
00:42:23.480 --> 00:42:25.840
have fifty seven year old this grandmother because everyone wants
870
00:42:25.880 --> 00:42:27.440
you to have a certain picture in your head of
871
00:42:27.519 --> 00:42:29.519
this little old grandmother who bakes pies all day and
872
00:42:29.599 --> 00:42:31.519
then she sits on her patio and waits for the
873
00:42:31.519 --> 00:42:34.639
grandkids to come over. That is not the grandmother that
874
00:42:34.760 --> 00:42:38.519
Janie Leggans is. She's the only you know she had
875
00:42:38.559 --> 00:42:40.400
a contact at one point. Of course, it was thirty
876
00:42:40.440 --> 00:42:42.760
years ago, about the time she lost her driver's license.
877
00:42:42.880 --> 00:42:46.079
She's signed of a drug manufacturing area that the police
878
00:42:46.079 --> 00:42:50.119
are rating. She'll never bother get her license restored. She's
879
00:42:50.159 --> 00:42:53.000
out at two am. Lots of reports are her going
880
00:42:53.119 --> 00:42:55.440
out to the bars and doing things. She's not acting
881
00:42:55.480 --> 00:42:57.920
like the grandmother that media wants you to picture in
882
00:42:57.960 --> 00:42:59.960
your head. And all of that's fine. It's perfectly how
883
00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:03.760
which she wants to live her life. That's perfectly fine.
884
00:43:04.599 --> 00:43:07.320
But the problems that came into play then was then
885
00:43:07.440 --> 00:43:11.360
why would she mitigation at trial? On the stand lead
886
00:43:11.400 --> 00:43:14.119
investigator Kim Davis. And she also said to some media
887
00:43:14.159 --> 00:43:19.079
interviews that false sexual assault allegations against Oklahoma City officers
888
00:43:19.199 --> 00:43:23.000
is extremely common, so common in fact, that she herself
889
00:43:23.119 --> 00:43:26.280
works at least one of those cases per month, and
890
00:43:26.320 --> 00:43:28.599
she said in all of those cases, there are three
891
00:43:28.719 --> 00:43:31.679
main reasons that a female will make a false sexual
892
00:43:31.719 --> 00:43:34.719
assault allegation against an officer, And she said the number
893
00:43:34.719 --> 00:43:37.079
one reason is to get out of a ticket or
894
00:43:37.079 --> 00:43:40.079
an arrest. That doesn't apply in this case because Janie
895
00:43:40.079 --> 00:43:43.239
wasn't arrested or ticketed. But number two is to get
896
00:43:43.280 --> 00:43:46.239
back at an overly aggressive or rude police officer.
897
00:43:46.880 --> 00:43:47.880
I don't know if.
898
00:43:47.639 --> 00:43:49.760
Daniel's rude or not, but I do know that he
899
00:43:49.880 --> 00:43:52.599
is aggressive. He had over a dozen use of force
900
00:43:52.679 --> 00:43:55.760
complaints against him that were all found in his favor,
901
00:43:55.800 --> 00:43:59.039
but he is an intimidating, big figure. I'm going to
902
00:43:59.079 --> 00:44:02.760
go ahead and say that maybe she felt disrespected and
903
00:44:02.760 --> 00:44:05.079
felt he was being rude because he probably did feel
904
00:44:05.079 --> 00:44:07.360
like she was probably a drug addict or a prostitute,
905
00:44:07.360 --> 00:44:10.519
because that area town is filled with those types of people,
906
00:44:10.639 --> 00:44:13.239
especially those types of people that are out and about
907
00:44:13.239 --> 00:44:15.519
at two am. So he probably did offend her and
908
00:44:15.559 --> 00:44:18.119
probably was rude to her. And then the number three
909
00:44:18.199 --> 00:44:21.480
reason is to get money. And of course Jannieliggins, along
910
00:44:21.559 --> 00:44:24.880
with all of the other accusers minus one, all have
911
00:44:25.000 --> 00:44:30.119
filed either state or federal lawsuits against Daniel and against
912
00:44:30.159 --> 00:44:33.159
the city and are seeking millions of dollars in damages.
913
00:44:33.239 --> 00:44:35.639
So two thirds of the reasons.
914
00:44:35.440 --> 00:44:40.280
That women commonly filed false accusation against police officers do
915
00:44:40.440 --> 00:44:42.559
count for Janie lggans. So to say she didn't have
916
00:44:42.599 --> 00:44:44.519
a reason to do this would not be correct.
917
00:44:45.239 --> 00:44:47.320
Cot clarify for me a couple of things. You mentioned
918
00:44:47.320 --> 00:44:50.440
that she had went back home and then returned back
919
00:44:50.440 --> 00:44:52.920
to the scene. Does she bring her daughter with her
920
00:44:52.920 --> 00:44:54.119
than when she went back to the scene.
921
00:44:54.400 --> 00:44:57.679
Well, what we know for certain is that she got
922
00:44:57.679 --> 00:45:00.800
home and that her boyfriend got in her car, that
923
00:45:00.840 --> 00:45:04.639
she had been driving this red sedan, older red sedan.
924
00:45:04.599 --> 00:45:05.719
And that he went to work.
925
00:45:06.079 --> 00:45:09.719
And then Jane got into her adult daughter's car, and
926
00:45:09.719 --> 00:45:12.760
then her adult daughter's boyfriend and their children.
927
00:45:12.880 --> 00:45:13.639
They woke them up.
928
00:45:13.679 --> 00:45:16.599
They all piled into a car and for whatever reason,
929
00:45:16.880 --> 00:45:21.079
drove across town, passed the main police headquarters, and drove
930
00:45:21.199 --> 00:45:23.559
back to the area where she had been pulled over.
931
00:45:24.079 --> 00:45:29.719
They claim that they called into police trying to get somebody.
932
00:45:29.760 --> 00:45:32.519
The police admitted that they had no record of any
933
00:45:32.559 --> 00:45:35.199
such call and that they went to the Spring Lake
934
00:45:35.239 --> 00:45:37.599
briefing station. Another detail that I forgot to mention that
935
00:45:37.639 --> 00:45:39.880
I think is very important. We do know for a
936
00:45:39.960 --> 00:45:44.079
fact that at some point before she actually reported the crime,
937
00:45:44.280 --> 00:45:47.360
the alleged crime, that she called a cousin of hers,
938
00:45:47.400 --> 00:45:49.719
a cousin of hers who happens to be an Oklahoma
939
00:45:49.760 --> 00:45:52.719
City police officer. And they called this cousin and said,
940
00:45:53.559 --> 00:45:56.280
Jennie Liggins, he says that she's been sexually assaulted by
941
00:45:56.320 --> 00:45:59.840
a police officer during a traffic stop. We're going to
942
00:45:59.840 --> 00:46:01.840
go to the spring Like briefing station, or we're going
943
00:46:01.920 --> 00:46:03.599
to go to the police station, probably is what they
944
00:46:03.599 --> 00:46:06.400
called it and reported that officer said, No, what you
945
00:46:06.480 --> 00:46:08.400
need to do, which is a cousin of theirs, you
946
00:46:08.480 --> 00:46:09.840
need to stay right where you are.
947
00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:11.440
You need to dial nine one one.
948
00:46:11.719 --> 00:46:14.639
You need to tell them to send out a supervisor immediately,
949
00:46:14.960 --> 00:46:17.840
and that you have a serious complaint against an officer
950
00:46:18.559 --> 00:46:21.199
who was just involved in a traffic as traffic stop,
951
00:46:21.280 --> 00:46:23.840
and they will come to you. Even though they sought
952
00:46:23.880 --> 00:46:27.360
out this cousin for advice. The cousin told them exactly
953
00:46:27.400 --> 00:46:29.320
what to do, to dial nine one one and give
954
00:46:29.320 --> 00:46:32.719
them the information. They chose to disregard that, even though
955
00:46:32.719 --> 00:46:35.280
they sought his advice and instead went to these places
956
00:46:35.480 --> 00:46:38.119
claim that they then called the police department. Police department
957
00:46:38.159 --> 00:46:40.599
says they have no record of that call, and then
958
00:46:40.719 --> 00:46:43.039
went to a station that was closed and then flagged
959
00:46:43.039 --> 00:46:46.000
down to officers. Now, I do not think, I do
960
00:46:46.079 --> 00:46:48.639
not think it's a stretch that if her allegations are false,
961
00:46:48.639 --> 00:46:51.679
and that she made those allegations up, people will say
962
00:46:51.800 --> 00:46:53.920
why didn't she do what her cousin said? And I
963
00:46:54.119 --> 00:46:56.360
racked my brain trying to figure out why you wouldn't
964
00:46:56.360 --> 00:46:59.039
do exactly what your cousin, who you called for advice,
965
00:46:59.079 --> 00:47:02.039
told you to do. It's because they hadn't quite gotten
966
00:47:02.079 --> 00:47:05.000
their story straight yet. And if you dial nine one one,
967
00:47:05.519 --> 00:47:08.320
that's going to be recorded. So any statement you say
968
00:47:08.480 --> 00:47:10.880
is going to be on tape, and they're probably going
969
00:47:10.920 --> 00:47:13.400
to ask you follow up questions that at that point
970
00:47:13.480 --> 00:47:16.639
they were not prepared to answer. That's the only reasonable
971
00:47:16.679 --> 00:47:19.840
conclusion I can come to that. When your cousin the
972
00:47:19.840 --> 00:47:22.320
police officer, says dial nine to one one and wait
973
00:47:22.360 --> 00:47:24.320
for them to come to you, and you choose not
974
00:47:24.440 --> 00:47:26.920
to do that, it's because you don't want your statement
975
00:47:26.960 --> 00:47:29.719
to be recorded because you haven't quite worked your statement
976
00:47:29.800 --> 00:47:30.400
out yet.
977
00:47:30.599 --> 00:47:33.119
Okay, but you're familiar that nine one calls are recorded,
978
00:47:33.159 --> 00:47:34.920
and I'm familiar. But do you think that she was?
979
00:47:35.880 --> 00:47:36.079
Oh?
980
00:47:36.159 --> 00:47:38.199
Absolutely, I think we all hear you.
981
00:47:38.239 --> 00:47:40.000
Turn on the news almost every night now and some
982
00:47:40.119 --> 00:47:43.000
dateline episode or some whatever is playing back that nine
983
00:47:43.039 --> 00:47:46.000
to one one call. It's something that's routinely done now,
984
00:47:46.239 --> 00:47:48.159
is they play nine to one one calls back so
985
00:47:48.199 --> 00:47:49.199
the public can hear them.
986
00:47:49.599 --> 00:47:52.480
And maybe I'm getting old, Maybe you're right. Now, what
987
00:47:52.599 --> 00:47:55.519
about what was the lapse of time from the time
988
00:47:55.519 --> 00:47:58.920
that she left contact with the holtz Claw and return
989
00:47:59.000 --> 00:48:01.559
back home and then finally made that report. How many
990
00:48:01.599 --> 00:48:04.239
miles is that and how much time span?
991
00:48:05.079 --> 00:48:06.639
You know, I don't have it in front of me,
992
00:48:06.679 --> 00:48:08.880
so I'm going to say right now, I'm giving my
993
00:48:09.079 --> 00:48:12.960
best guess, but I know for her to drive across town,
994
00:48:13.039 --> 00:48:15.559
we looked it up once before. It was about a
995
00:48:15.599 --> 00:48:18.920
fifteen minute drive for her to get to get from
996
00:48:18.920 --> 00:48:21.159
where she was back to the apartment that she was
997
00:48:21.199 --> 00:48:24.280
living in with her daughter. And that she had reported
998
00:48:24.320 --> 00:48:28.159
this within a little over an hour or so after
999
00:48:28.280 --> 00:48:31.519
the traffic stop, I'm going to say relatively quickly, not
1000
00:48:31.760 --> 00:48:34.039
like she immediately went to you know. Of course in
1001
00:48:34.039 --> 00:48:35.679
the old days we'd say went to a payphone and
1002
00:48:35.679 --> 00:48:36.280
called police.
1003
00:48:36.320 --> 00:48:37.920
But she certainly didn't drive straight.
1004
00:48:37.960 --> 00:48:40.280
She had time to make some phone calls, wake people up,
1005
00:48:40.519 --> 00:48:43.159
drive to the other part of town. So I believe,
1006
00:48:43.199 --> 00:48:45.239
if my recollection is correct, we're talking about an hour
1007
00:48:45.280 --> 00:48:48.960
and a half before she before she flagged down to
1008
00:48:49.119 --> 00:48:51.320
officers and made her report.
1009
00:48:51.800 --> 00:48:53.800
And so you believe that in one hour she came
1010
00:48:53.880 --> 00:48:55.639
up with this idea that hey, I can make money
1011
00:48:55.639 --> 00:48:58.400
off of this traffic stop. When you got to remember too,
1012
00:48:58.400 --> 00:49:01.000
and she'd had no idea that has turned off. She
1013
00:49:01.039 --> 00:49:03.800
had no idea that he was off duty. She didn't
1014
00:49:03.800 --> 00:49:04.679
know any of these things.
1015
00:49:04.960 --> 00:49:07.400
Well, no, she knew that he was off duty, because
1016
00:49:07.440 --> 00:49:09.960
she repeated that back. He'd even told her, I'm just
1017
00:49:10.000 --> 00:49:12.440
going to I just got off my shift. I really
1018
00:49:12.480 --> 00:49:15.039
just want to go home. I'm going to let you go,
1019
00:49:15.119 --> 00:49:17.639
So she knew that. She repeated that during her report.
1020
00:49:17.719 --> 00:49:20.920
So they had obviously during this twelve minute or so stop,
1021
00:49:21.199 --> 00:49:23.000
there was chit chat that was going on, and he
1022
00:49:23.039 --> 00:49:26.039
had shared those sorts of things. What I personally think,
1023
00:49:26.239 --> 00:49:28.000
and I have no proof that this is what happened,
1024
00:49:28.039 --> 00:49:31.480
but what I personally think is at least realistic as
1025
00:49:31.519 --> 00:49:35.719
a possibility, is that she was upset with Daniel. She
1026
00:49:35.800 --> 00:49:39.039
felt like she was probably treated like a common drug addict.
1027
00:49:39.039 --> 00:49:40.840
She was probably treated like a prostitute.
1028
00:49:40.840 --> 00:49:43.199
She was probably treated like things and in a way
1029
00:49:43.239 --> 00:49:46.840
that offended her. He may have even made accusations towards
1030
00:49:46.880 --> 00:49:49.199
her to see if she would admit to anything. I
1031
00:49:49.239 --> 00:49:51.159
don't know, And I think she got home and I
1032
00:49:51.159 --> 00:49:53.280
think she was mad. And I think when you look
1033
00:49:53.320 --> 00:49:55.079
up her history and you look at the number of
1034
00:49:55.159 --> 00:49:58.599
times that she's been evicted from different homes that she's
1035
00:49:58.639 --> 00:50:02.159
lived in, and financial obligations that she hasn't meitt to
1036
00:50:02.239 --> 00:50:05.360
different people, and you look at the criminal histories of
1037
00:50:05.400 --> 00:50:08.079
the girlfriend's boyfriend and these sorts of things. I think
1038
00:50:08.119 --> 00:50:10.119
she came home and I think she was pissed, and
1039
00:50:10.159 --> 00:50:12.159
I think she was probably going to be Daniel's number
1040
00:50:12.159 --> 00:50:16.079
sixteen use of force complaint, because lots of people filed
1041
00:50:16.079 --> 00:50:18.360
the use of forts complaints against Daniel that didn't involve
1042
00:50:18.400 --> 00:50:20.880
any sort of sexual activity. And I think she came
1043
00:50:20.880 --> 00:50:23.159
home pissed off about that and was going to do that.
1044
00:50:23.559 --> 00:50:26.840
And I think probably, I honestly, for just looking at
1045
00:50:26.840 --> 00:50:30.239
the backgrounds of these individuals, I think that probably Janie's
1046
00:50:30.320 --> 00:50:33.440
daughter's adult boyfriend may have been the instigator of this
1047
00:50:33.559 --> 00:50:36.159
and said that ain't going to get you anywhere, you know,
1048
00:50:36.280 --> 00:50:39.199
him being rude to you. Let's up the ante, And
1049
00:50:40.400 --> 00:50:42.360
so I think that then she decided that she and
1050
00:50:42.360 --> 00:50:44.079
I don't know at what point or how quickly she
1051
00:50:44.159 --> 00:50:46.400
decided she had turned it into a sexual assault claim,
1052
00:50:46.559 --> 00:50:48.440
but I think they decided very early on they were
1053
00:50:48.480 --> 00:50:51.360
going to file a complaint that possibly there was money
1054
00:50:51.360 --> 00:50:55.000
to be made here Janie. Janie's flat broke, they're sharing
1055
00:50:55.000 --> 00:50:58.800
a car with her boyfriend, she's working part time basically
1056
00:50:58.880 --> 00:51:02.360
at a daycare center. The husband's working overnight. Shortly got
1057
00:51:02.400 --> 00:51:04.519
laid off too long after this. They're sharing a car.
1058
00:51:04.639 --> 00:51:06.760
She didn't have a driver's license. They're living in a
1059
00:51:06.800 --> 00:51:10.760
Section eight apartment with her with her daughter. She's dead broke,
1060
00:51:11.119 --> 00:51:12.760
and this is a pretty good way to try to
1061
00:51:12.800 --> 00:51:15.639
get some money. And as even the police investigators say,
1062
00:51:15.719 --> 00:51:18.960
they see this all the time. And I think at
1063
00:51:18.960 --> 00:51:21.639
some point they went from being just a complaint about
1064
00:51:21.639 --> 00:51:24.039
this officer, who let's up the antie and let's make
1065
00:51:24.039 --> 00:51:25.159
it a sexual assault.
1066
00:51:25.360 --> 00:51:28.159
And I don't think that she had any idea that
1067
00:51:28.199 --> 00:51:30.440
this was going to become the firestorm that it became.
1068
00:51:31.639 --> 00:51:34.239
Did she ever describe why he told her he was
1069
00:51:34.280 --> 00:51:35.000
a duty.
1070
00:51:36.039 --> 00:51:39.039
She just said that he had he had well, actually,
1071
00:51:39.639 --> 00:51:41.800
at some point he just mentioned, you know, that he
1072
00:51:41.840 --> 00:51:43.960
had just had a long day in a ship, and
1073
00:51:44.000 --> 00:51:47.079
then said something about to the effect of, let's you know,
1074
00:51:47.159 --> 00:51:50.480
hurry up and get this uh you know, uh oral
1075
00:51:50.519 --> 00:51:52.960
sex or whatever street term you want to use, out
1076
00:51:53.000 --> 00:51:54.760
of the way, and then I'm going to go home.
1077
00:51:55.800 --> 00:51:58.599
But he had indicated however it was, And even he
1078
00:51:58.639 --> 00:52:01.440
remembers telling her that I told her you know it's late,
1079
00:52:01.480 --> 00:52:03.280
I'm off I'm off duty. I want to get home.
1080
00:52:03.280 --> 00:52:05.119
I thought this was going to be something more serious
1081
00:52:05.119 --> 00:52:05.599
than it was.
1082
00:52:05.679 --> 00:52:06.000
It's not.
1083
00:52:07.079 --> 00:52:09.760
And so I'm going to let you go because, quite frankly,
1084
00:52:10.159 --> 00:52:12.280
I'm being lazy and I just want to go home
1085
00:52:12.320 --> 00:52:13.559
at this point if it's not going to be a
1086
00:52:13.559 --> 00:52:16.039
good arrest, because there is like a points system that
1087
00:52:16.079 --> 00:52:18.239
the officers get them fell in the arrests and things
1088
00:52:18.280 --> 00:52:18.559
like that.
1089
00:52:18.719 --> 00:52:20.280
This wasn't going to get Daniel any points.
1090
00:52:20.320 --> 00:52:23.360
It wasn't worth turning his computer back on and taking
1091
00:52:23.400 --> 00:52:25.559
her downtown and not getting home for two or three
1092
00:52:25.559 --> 00:52:26.159
more hours.
1093
00:52:26.440 --> 00:52:28.599
And so hearing that chit chat, she knew that he
1094
00:52:28.599 --> 00:52:29.599
had just gotten off work.
1095
00:52:30.360 --> 00:52:34.000
And you said, your theory based on the boyfriend's background
1096
00:52:34.000 --> 00:52:36.079
and the daughter's background Section eight and stuff like that,
1097
00:52:36.239 --> 00:52:38.079
have you had a chance were they deposed, or have
1098
00:52:38.119 --> 00:52:40.000
you had a chance to anster view them yourself and
1099
00:52:40.039 --> 00:52:40.480
talk to them?
1100
00:52:40.960 --> 00:52:43.400
Well, they don't, you know, they wouldn't do any depositions
1101
00:52:43.440 --> 00:52:44.920
in a case like this. All we have to go
1102
00:52:45.000 --> 00:52:48.320
by our police report. They conveniently did not record. Even
1103
00:52:48.360 --> 00:52:51.199
though they recorded all these other statements, they recorded none
1104
00:52:51.280 --> 00:52:53.960
of the statements of Janie Liggins or any of her
1105
00:52:54.000 --> 00:52:57.280
immediate family members. Another thing that I found from actually
1106
00:52:57.320 --> 00:53:00.000
from the get go, that made me question the true
1107
00:53:00.000 --> 00:53:02.639
truthfulness of Janie Wiggins. And actually, as soon as I
1108
00:53:02.679 --> 00:53:04.679
realized that she had a boyfriend of thirty years, yet
1109
00:53:04.719 --> 00:53:07.199
she's over at some other man's house until two o'clock
1110
00:53:07.239 --> 00:53:09.559
in the morning, I found that to be a little odd.
1111
00:53:09.599 --> 00:53:11.159
But you know, everybody's different. I don't know.
1112
00:53:11.199 --> 00:53:14.119
It's certainly not illegal, but she said she was headed home,
1113
00:53:14.159 --> 00:53:16.639
And anyone who's familiar with Oklahoma City, then you bring
1114
00:53:16.719 --> 00:53:17.960
up a map and you look at the corner of
1115
00:53:18.000 --> 00:53:21.280
Northeast fiftieth in Lincoln Boulevard. She basically would have been
1116
00:53:21.320 --> 00:53:23.840
heading in general the same direction Daniel was, and they
1117
00:53:23.840 --> 00:53:27.360
were heading the same direction. But at northeast fiftieth in Lincoln,
1118
00:53:27.679 --> 00:53:30.199
Daniel normally would have made a right hand turn going
1119
00:53:30.239 --> 00:53:33.000
north on Lincoln Boulevard and got onto the highway to
1120
00:53:33.039 --> 00:53:35.320
head to where he was going. Well, that's what Janie
1121
00:53:35.400 --> 00:53:37.880
should have done. Also, if she truly was headed home
1122
00:53:38.039 --> 00:53:40.960
at that intersection, she should have indicated that she wanted
1123
00:53:41.000 --> 00:53:42.719
to make a right hand turn or go north, got
1124
00:53:42.719 --> 00:53:45.760
on the highway and headed home instead. She didn't turn
1125
00:53:45.760 --> 00:53:47.800
on her blanker, and even she admits she went through
1126
00:53:47.800 --> 00:53:50.880
the intersection and was going to continue westbound, That's not
1127
00:53:51.000 --> 00:53:52.800
the way she would go if she was trying to
1128
00:53:52.840 --> 00:53:55.480
go home. Now, she could eventually get there, but she'd
1129
00:53:55.480 --> 00:53:57.599
have to go through some slower residential streets.
1130
00:53:57.760 --> 00:54:00.599
She'd have to loop back then she can at home.
1131
00:54:01.000 --> 00:54:02.559
I don't know what she was doing that night at
1132
00:54:02.599 --> 00:54:05.000
two am, whenever she left the other gentleman's house. I
1133
00:54:05.079 --> 00:54:07.519
do not believe that at that moment she was heading
1134
00:54:07.559 --> 00:54:09.719
straight home. And I don't know why she lied about
1135
00:54:09.760 --> 00:54:12.239
where she was going, but it doesn't make sense that
1136
00:54:12.320 --> 00:54:13.880
she was going the way that she was going and
1137
00:54:13.960 --> 00:54:16.679
she was truly heading home. So you take that, you
1138
00:54:16.719 --> 00:54:18.920
take the what are you doing at two am? What
1139
00:54:18.920 --> 00:54:20.760
are you doing at another guy's house? Why do you
1140
00:54:20.800 --> 00:54:23.360
say you're heading home when it obviously appears you're not
1141
00:54:23.480 --> 00:54:26.559
heading home. Why did you give specific details about the
1142
00:54:26.639 --> 00:54:30.960
stop that Daniel totally contradicts different things, being touched, stuff
1143
00:54:31.000 --> 00:54:33.719
like that, when there's zero evidence that had happened, and
1144
00:54:33.760 --> 00:54:37.360
it supports Daniel's side of the story. All of those
1145
00:54:37.400 --> 00:54:40.400
things tell me this person is not being truthful. I
1146
00:54:40.440 --> 00:54:42.199
don't know Why is it because they made up all
1147
00:54:42.239 --> 00:54:44.719
of the allegations. Is it because that's just they just
1148
00:54:44.760 --> 00:54:46.840
go through their life and don't necessarily tell the truth.
1149
00:54:47.239 --> 00:54:47.639
I don't know.
1150
00:54:48.559 --> 00:54:51.199
Okay, but again too, if she was heading against another
1151
00:54:51.239 --> 00:54:53.119
boyfriend's house and pick up drug wherever, she was going
1152
00:54:53.119 --> 00:54:55.880
somewhere other than home after the stop, she did ultimately
1153
00:54:55.880 --> 00:54:56.519
go home, so.
1154
00:54:56.920 --> 00:55:00.960
That if you watch the and here's where she tried
1155
00:55:01.000 --> 00:55:02.599
to say, Well, I was going home that way, I
1156
00:55:02.639 --> 00:55:04.920
just would Yeah, I would have meandered through the neighborhood. Well,
1157
00:55:05.079 --> 00:55:07.119
when the traffic stop is over, what does she do?
1158
00:55:07.320 --> 00:55:10.079
She makes a U turn and doubles back to the corner.
1159
00:55:11.079 --> 00:55:13.400
Okay, good time. Taking a commercial break. We're with Brian
1160
00:55:13.480 --> 00:55:16.679
Bates is a private investigator. We're talking about the Daniel
1161
00:55:16.880 --> 00:55:21.000
holtzklaw case. Check out to holtz Claw prial dot com.
1162
00:55:21.000 --> 00:55:25.400
That's h O L t Zclawtrial dot com. We'll be
1163
00:55:25.440 --> 00:55:28.000
right back after these messages with more Brian Bates and
1164
00:55:28.079 --> 00:55:53.559
the Daniel Holtzclaw case. And now a word for more sponsors.
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00:57:50.119 --> 00:57:54.800
allow shedding the light perspectives the owners of WPR don't
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County and beyond. Our Hopes Center JPO provides insightful analysis
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Remember all these shows on a wake are brought to
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you by email revealer dot com. You can go to
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email revealer dot com and get a copy of my
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1212
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their online dating websites and we return a list of
1214
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1215
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to porn sites, escorts service sites, swinger sites, gambling websites
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1221
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That's email revealer dot com. Or you can contact me
1222
00:59:17.679 --> 00:59:21.800
at Oppermaninvestigations at gmail dot com.
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We all have questions, did he do it? Or did
1224
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he not?
1225
00:59:26.320 --> 00:59:29.760
We all have opinions, but do we really know the truth?
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It's The Opperman Report.
1236
01:00:07.519 --> 01:00:11.519
Join digital forensic investigator in PI at Opperman for in
1237
01:00:11.599 --> 01:00:17.320
depth discussion of conspiracy theories, strategy of New World Order resistance,
1238
01:00:17.840 --> 01:00:21.400
hi profile court cases in the news, and interviews with
1239
01:00:21.639 --> 01:00:26.000
expert guests and authors on these topics and more. It's
1240
01:00:26.039 --> 01:00:32.320
The Opperman Report, and now here is investigator Ed Opperman.
1241
01:00:35.599 --> 01:00:38.800
Okay, welcome back to the Opperman Report. I'm your host,
1242
01:00:38.800 --> 01:00:42.320
Private investigator at Opperman. We're here today with Brian Bates,
1243
01:00:42.360 --> 01:00:47.880
private investigator from Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. I guess we're talking
1244
01:00:47.880 --> 01:00:52.199
about the Daniel holts Claw trial Hoxclaw Trial dot com
1245
01:00:52.239 --> 01:00:55.199
and keep an eye out for Daniel's podcast coming up
1246
01:00:55.239 --> 01:00:58.719
to as well. Now, Now, as you mentioned to it,
1247
01:00:58.760 --> 01:01:00.719
and when we tried to do the pre interview that
1248
01:01:01.719 --> 01:01:03.639
she then went out and hired an attorney and started
1249
01:01:03.639 --> 01:01:04.159
doing media.
1250
01:01:05.599 --> 01:01:07.760
Well what she did well, we know, you know, some
1251
01:01:07.800 --> 01:01:09.800
of the things we don't know for sure, but based
1252
01:01:09.800 --> 01:01:11.599
on the timeline I was able to put together. She
1253
01:01:12.039 --> 01:01:16.679
reports she has a traffic stop in reports on June eighteenth,
1254
01:01:16.719 --> 01:01:23.280
twenty fourteen, and makes accusations against Daniel. On the twenty third,
1255
01:01:23.960 --> 01:01:26.880
she does her first on camera interview. This is a
1256
01:01:26.920 --> 01:01:31.159
woman who claims to the sexual assault victim has been reassured,
1257
01:01:31.199 --> 01:01:34.199
and certainly the evidence was there that police are taking
1258
01:01:34.239 --> 01:01:37.440
her concerns extremely seriously. They're doing lots of interviews, they're
1259
01:01:37.480 --> 01:01:41.159
pulling surveillance tapes, They've pulled Daniel in, they immediately took
1260
01:01:41.239 --> 01:01:43.320
him off the streets and put him on administrative leave.
1261
01:01:43.719 --> 01:01:48.440
All these things are happening against the wishes of investigators.
1262
01:01:48.800 --> 01:01:52.760
She goes public and goes on the news with her
1263
01:01:52.880 --> 01:01:56.320
with her allegations against Daniel, and that happens on the
1264
01:01:56.360 --> 01:02:01.559
twenty third, and what becomes really weird was there's only
1265
01:02:01.599 --> 01:02:03.760
one accuser at this point, only one person has made
1266
01:02:03.760 --> 01:02:06.079
any sort of accusation against Daniel holts Claw, and that's
1267
01:02:06.199 --> 01:02:09.559
Janie Liggins. But literally we know from the police reports
1268
01:02:10.280 --> 01:02:14.079
that on what was it on six twenty two days
1269
01:02:14.199 --> 01:02:17.239
after she makes a report, the Oakland City Police Department
1270
01:02:17.719 --> 01:02:21.760
starts to create what later becomes the perfect victim profile,
1271
01:02:22.159 --> 01:02:24.719
even though they only have one accuser. They have now
1272
01:02:24.800 --> 01:02:28.440
decided that they believe Daniel holts Claw is a serial offender,
1273
01:02:28.760 --> 01:02:32.000
and they immediately a lieutenant Mudsny, I have the police
1274
01:02:32.039 --> 01:02:35.599
reports and they will be published, where he says, let's
1275
01:02:35.639 --> 01:02:40.079
pull the names of every female Daniel holts Claw stopped
1276
01:02:40.119 --> 01:02:42.320
while on duty over the last two months, and we're
1277
01:02:42.360 --> 01:02:44.480
going to start interviewing these women. Well, they find out
1278
01:02:44.519 --> 01:02:47.880
real quickly that list is huge, so he says, Okay,
1279
01:02:47.880 --> 01:02:49.760
this isn't going to work, so we're going to reduce
1280
01:02:49.800 --> 01:02:52.360
it from all women that he stopped. Let's reduce it
1281
01:02:52.400 --> 01:02:55.599
to black females. So they reduce it to black females. Well,
1282
01:02:55.599 --> 01:02:57.880
it's the northeast part of town, so it really doesn't
1283
01:02:57.880 --> 01:03:00.480
reduce the list very much. The list is still huge
1284
01:03:00.639 --> 01:03:03.000
for whatever reason. And even though this doesn't even fit
1285
01:03:03.079 --> 01:03:06.000
Janie Liggins's own profile, they say, and it's in the
1286
01:03:06.039 --> 01:03:09.800
police report. We reduced the list again, and we reduced
1287
01:03:09.800 --> 01:03:13.119
it to black females with a history of prostitution and
1288
01:03:13.400 --> 01:03:14.599
or drug arrests.
1289
01:03:15.639 --> 01:03:18.320
And then they called that Daniel's profile.
1290
01:03:19.159 --> 01:03:21.719
No black females with the history of prostitution and drug
1291
01:03:21.760 --> 01:03:25.199
arrests have made any allegations against Daniel. But they came
1292
01:03:25.320 --> 01:03:30.920
up with the profile first. That's called confirmation bias. They
1293
01:03:31.400 --> 01:03:33.719
decided this is who Daniel was and this is what
1294
01:03:33.760 --> 01:03:36.079
he was going to do, and they developed a bias
1295
01:03:36.199 --> 01:03:40.400
where they only sought information. They're reinforced a conclusion they
1296
01:03:40.400 --> 01:03:42.920
had already drawn. And that is not me saying that.
1297
01:03:42.920 --> 01:03:45.760
That is in the record, in the police record, and
1298
01:03:45.840 --> 01:03:48.800
all of those things will will be published. And they
1299
01:03:48.840 --> 01:03:51.679
became part of the trial, but for some reason didn't
1300
01:03:51.719 --> 01:03:53.440
have the weight that I think that they should have had.
1301
01:03:54.639 --> 01:03:59.280
You know, you mentioned earlier that none of these cases
1302
01:03:59.639 --> 01:04:02.599
they had no direct forensic evidence. But there was a
1303
01:04:02.639 --> 01:04:06.320
seventeen year old that they found DNA on his zipper.
1304
01:04:06.639 --> 01:04:07.920
I heard DNA right.
1305
01:04:08.079 --> 01:04:08.960
Yep, Yes, there was.
1306
01:04:09.000 --> 01:04:13.079
There was a seventeen year old, dear Gardener. She had
1307
01:04:13.119 --> 01:04:16.760
been stopped. She actually was stopped twice by Daniel. She
1308
01:04:17.159 --> 01:04:21.480
Initially he was on patrol and he saw Gardener with
1309
01:04:21.559 --> 01:04:25.639
another female and with a known black male pimp. I
1310
01:04:25.639 --> 01:04:28.280
believe he went by the street name Money, and he
1311
01:04:28.360 --> 01:04:31.400
pulls up because it looks like a prostitution deal happening,
1312
01:04:31.559 --> 01:04:33.679
and he pulls up. He actually lies when he pulls up,
1313
01:04:33.880 --> 01:04:36.000
and he tells him there was a call about a domestic.
1314
01:04:36.000 --> 01:04:37.559
I think he could see from a distance kind of
1315
01:04:37.639 --> 01:04:39.639
arms flying, they were yelling at each other or whatever.
1316
01:04:39.880 --> 01:04:42.360
So he just claims that someone called it a domestic
1317
01:04:42.679 --> 01:04:45.719
because then that makes them feel like, oh, the neighbors
1318
01:04:45.719 --> 01:04:48.039
are watching us. We better watch what we're doing because
1319
01:04:48.079 --> 01:04:49.239
we don't have to just hide.
1320
01:04:49.039 --> 01:04:49.559
From the cops.
1321
01:04:49.559 --> 01:04:51.000
The neighbors are going to call us in if we're
1322
01:04:51.039 --> 01:04:53.480
doing something wrong. So he tried to use his little
1323
01:04:53.519 --> 01:04:55.039
tactic kid learned in the Gang Unit.
1324
01:04:55.119 --> 01:04:56.000
So he did that.
1325
01:04:56.119 --> 01:04:59.880
He starts questioning them and during the conversations, one of
1326
01:04:59.880 --> 01:05:03.159
the girls says, well, money here is trying to trying
1327
01:05:03.199 --> 01:05:07.000
to pimp us out, and you know, we're just talking
1328
01:05:07.000 --> 01:05:08.199
to him, and yeah, he's a pimp.
1329
01:05:08.239 --> 01:05:10.039
We know he's a pin of blah blah blah.
1330
01:05:10.119 --> 01:05:13.199
And Daniel asked Gardner to He asked everyone to see
1331
01:05:13.199 --> 01:05:15.280
their ID, and he asked for Gardener, and Gardener didn't
1332
01:05:15.280 --> 01:05:17.679
have an idea on her, and he gave She gave
1333
01:05:17.760 --> 01:05:22.239
a you know, a name and identifying information, and come
1334
01:05:22.320 --> 01:05:24.480
to find out, it was all of her identifying information.
1335
01:05:24.920 --> 01:05:28.000
Daniel didn't necessarily believe that she was who she said
1336
01:05:28.039 --> 01:05:30.039
she was, and she may have been someone hiding from
1337
01:05:30.079 --> 01:05:32.239
a felony warren or something. But he gets a call
1338
01:05:32.280 --> 01:05:34.159
to go somewhere else, so he leaves. He goes on
1339
01:05:34.719 --> 01:05:37.039
and and he goes on to another call, and then
1340
01:05:37.159 --> 01:05:39.760
a few hours later comes back lo and behold there's
1341
01:05:39.760 --> 01:05:41.760
a gardener again out on the side of the street,
1342
01:05:42.840 --> 01:05:45.639
kind of doing her thing. Looks like she's probably prostituting.
1343
01:05:45.679 --> 01:05:49.239
It's in an area of town that has a lot
1344
01:05:49.280 --> 01:05:52.000
of street prostitution that goes on. She has a history
1345
01:05:52.000 --> 01:05:55.800
of prostitution, and so he stops her again and he says,
1346
01:05:55.800 --> 01:05:57.840
you know, I still don't believe you are who you
1347
01:05:57.880 --> 01:05:59.159
say you are. And she goes, well, I am, and
1348
01:05:59.199 --> 01:06:01.679
I'm staying with my and she lives right around the
1349
01:06:01.679 --> 01:06:04.159
corner here, and I can prove that it's me. And
1350
01:06:04.920 --> 01:06:06.880
I'm just heading home right now. I'm walking home. Because
1351
01:06:06.880 --> 01:06:09.239
oh good, Well, if you're already heading home and it's
1352
01:06:09.320 --> 01:06:10.880
dark and this is a bad part of town and
1353
01:06:10.880 --> 01:06:13.880
you're not out prostituting, hop in, I'll take you home
1354
01:06:14.079 --> 01:06:15.239
and we'll verify.
1355
01:06:14.960 --> 01:06:17.639
Who you are. And she said okay, So she gets
1356
01:06:17.639 --> 01:06:18.079
in the car.
1357
01:06:18.519 --> 01:06:21.159
They drive literally if you just round the corner, and
1358
01:06:21.199 --> 01:06:23.039
they pull up into a house and she gets out.
1359
01:06:23.079 --> 01:06:24.800
She goes, oh, my mom's car's not here.
1360
01:06:24.840 --> 01:06:27.400
Her mom's drives at the time, drove one of those
1361
01:06:27.440 --> 01:06:29.719
trucks around it. They sell meat door to door. They
1362
01:06:29.760 --> 01:06:32.400
don't know if you all have them there. So you
1363
01:06:32.519 --> 01:06:34.880
pork chops and steaks and stuff like that out of
1364
01:06:34.920 --> 01:06:35.960
the back of a truck.
1365
01:06:36.280 --> 01:06:37.920
Three times the price and we can get in at
1366
01:06:38.559 --> 01:06:40.199
it's three times the price you get in the store.
1367
01:06:40.679 --> 01:06:44.280
Right, and no telling how long it's been around whatever.
1368
01:06:44.280 --> 01:06:46.320
I know, I'm not going to disparage, you know, anyone
1369
01:06:46.360 --> 01:06:49.079
that's out there doing that or whatever. So says she's
1370
01:06:49.119 --> 01:06:51.840
not here and Dange're like, well, that's convenient. So how
1371
01:06:51.840 --> 01:06:54.320
do I know you are who you say you are?
1372
01:06:55.639 --> 01:06:57.960
And she goes, oh, and I don't have a key
1373
01:06:58.000 --> 01:06:59.559
because he's like, we can you go inside and get
1374
01:06:59.599 --> 01:07:01.719
your id y, get something that shows who you are. Yeah,
1375
01:07:01.719 --> 01:07:02.800
I don't have a key on me either, so I
1376
01:07:02.800 --> 01:07:04.480
don't have an idea. I don't have a key the
1377
01:07:04.519 --> 01:07:07.519
house you brought me to, supposedly there's nobody here. They
1378
01:07:07.559 --> 01:07:10.920
didn't knock her anything. And she says at this point,
1379
01:07:10.960 --> 01:07:13.840
they're up by the door, because that's where she realizes, oh, oops,
1380
01:07:13.880 --> 01:07:16.760
I don't have a key, and she claims that Daniel
1381
01:07:16.800 --> 01:07:20.039
at that point bent her over on the on the
1382
01:07:20.079 --> 01:07:24.000
porch in front of her house and raped her right there.
1383
01:07:24.000 --> 01:07:26.039
I vaginally raped her and then just got in his
1384
01:07:26.119 --> 01:07:30.639
car and drove away. And then the interesting twist of
1385
01:07:30.679 --> 01:07:35.880
this was later on that evening there's mother says it
1386
01:07:35.920 --> 01:07:37.599
was around three am. We'll come to find out it
1387
01:07:37.639 --> 01:07:41.519
was only really about eleven pm. Daniel calls because Daniel,
1388
01:07:41.760 --> 01:07:43.599
Daniel says that, well, when I dropped her off, he goes,
1389
01:07:43.599 --> 01:07:44.519
I didn't know what I was supposed to do.
1390
01:07:44.559 --> 01:07:46.960
I couldn't just sit there and babysitter till somebody showed up,
1391
01:07:47.199 --> 01:07:47.559
he said.
1392
01:07:47.559 --> 01:07:49.280
So I sat there for a few minutes, and I
1393
01:07:49.400 --> 01:07:51.119
told her, I said, well, I'm going to verify that
1394
01:07:51.199 --> 01:07:53.400
you are who you are, and if I see you
1395
01:07:53.440 --> 01:07:55.360
again and you lied, and this really isn't your house
1396
01:07:55.360 --> 01:07:56.960
and those things you know, you're you're going to go
1397
01:07:56.960 --> 01:07:57.400
to jail.
1398
01:07:57.880 --> 01:07:59.519
And she's like, no, it really is me. And come
1399
01:07:59.559 --> 01:08:01.159
to find out, she was being honest.
1400
01:08:01.559 --> 01:08:05.760
And so Daniel drove away, and then that evening he
1401
01:08:05.880 --> 01:08:08.440
drives by the house. He's on patrol and he's worre
1402
01:08:08.480 --> 01:08:10.519
he's supposed to be. He drives around and he sees
1403
01:08:10.559 --> 01:08:12.679
there's lights on in the house. There's now car out front,
1404
01:08:12.719 --> 01:08:15.719
so he runs the address. A contact telephone number pops
1405
01:08:15.760 --> 01:08:18.920
up and that happens to be Gardner's mother, and so
1406
01:08:19.359 --> 01:08:23.119
he dials a number and when she answers the phone,
1407
01:08:23.239 --> 01:08:25.119
he says it's to Daniel holtz Claw and Eklana see
1408
01:08:25.119 --> 01:08:25.840
police officer.
1409
01:08:26.600 --> 01:08:28.479
Is there an Adaria Gardner that lives there?
1410
01:08:28.960 --> 01:08:31.960
And the mom assumes that this is a guy, a
1411
01:08:31.960 --> 01:08:35.680
police officer calling for her seventeen year old daughter, because
1412
01:08:35.680 --> 01:08:38.239
the daughter has said, and I'll actually play this, you
1413
01:08:38.239 --> 01:08:39.880
can hear it here in a second, this is a
1414
01:08:39.920 --> 01:08:43.039
really odd thing. Mom gets home that night, Adara claims
1415
01:08:43.039 --> 01:08:46.439
that she's just been forcefully raped by a police officer
1416
01:08:46.560 --> 01:08:49.000
on the porch of her own house, and her mother
1417
01:08:49.159 --> 01:08:51.720
says that when she gets home, first thing her daughter
1418
01:08:51.840 --> 01:08:54.479
or sister is, hey, mom, I met this really hot
1419
01:08:54.560 --> 01:08:59.640
cop today who describes their rapist as the really.
1420
01:08:59.479 --> 01:09:00.960
Hot cop they met today.
1421
01:09:01.680 --> 01:09:04.399
And so all mom here is is my daughter met
1422
01:09:04.399 --> 01:09:06.800
this really hot cop who dropped her off at her house. Well,
1423
01:09:06.800 --> 01:09:10.279
then eleven o'clock at night, a cop calls and asks
1424
01:09:10.279 --> 01:09:11.520
if a Deera Gardner lives there.
1425
01:09:11.560 --> 01:09:13.520
Well, Daniel says he was calling to see if.
1426
01:09:13.399 --> 01:09:16.000
There truly wasn't a Derek Gardner that lived there, and
1427
01:09:16.039 --> 01:09:18.119
he wanted to share with the mother that well, if
1428
01:09:18.119 --> 01:09:20.640
she gave her real identity, she's only seventeen and she's
1429
01:09:20.640 --> 01:09:23.439
hanging out with non pims and known prostitutes. This is
1430
01:09:23.479 --> 01:09:26.479
not a good thing. Well, the mom admits that she
1431
01:09:26.600 --> 01:09:29.239
doesn't let Daniel explain himself. As soon as he says
1432
01:09:29.399 --> 01:09:31.960
there's an Adara Gardner live there, she says, don't you
1433
01:09:32.039 --> 01:09:35.239
be calling my daughter anymore? And for whatever reason, throughout this,
1434
01:09:35.239 --> 01:09:37.720
this is a recorded interview that she has with the police.
1435
01:09:37.760 --> 01:09:40.479
With the detective, she keeps saying their daughter's thirteen. I
1436
01:09:40.520 --> 01:09:42.800
don't know why she keeps saying her daughter's thirteen. I
1437
01:09:42.840 --> 01:09:44.479
guess she doesn't know the age of her own daughter,
1438
01:09:44.520 --> 01:09:47.439
but her daughter was seventeen. And then just hangs up
1439
01:09:47.439 --> 01:09:50.279
on Daniel and she admits, I don't even let him respond,
1440
01:09:50.319 --> 01:09:52.760
but real quick, let me, I've got it cued up here.
1441
01:09:52.920 --> 01:09:53.920
I'll play the audio.
1442
01:09:54.000 --> 01:09:57.640
This is a telephone conversation that occurred between sex crimes
1443
01:09:57.680 --> 01:10:02.119
detective Kim Davis and the mother of a there Gardner,
1444
01:10:02.159 --> 01:10:04.439
Amanda Gates. And this is this is just a portion
1445
01:10:04.560 --> 01:10:06.319
of their of their telephone call.
1446
01:10:07.600 --> 01:10:07.920
Thank you.
1447
01:10:18.159 --> 01:10:23.279
Became for there's a worry about it. He's look at
1448
01:10:23.359 --> 01:10:26.600
a day living.
1449
01:10:28.279 --> 01:10:39.520
Army. Look yeah, really are dead.
1450
01:10:45.920 --> 01:11:04.039
It's so funny, okay, the morning.
1451
01:11:10.079 --> 01:11:32.960
For him to do the things there you go.
1452
01:11:33.079 --> 01:11:36.319
So, like I said, who in their right mind describes
1453
01:11:36.319 --> 01:11:38.199
the rapists as the hot top they're going to go
1454
01:11:38.239 --> 01:11:38.600
out with?
1455
01:11:38.800 --> 01:11:39.119
It was?
1456
01:11:39.640 --> 01:11:43.039
She claims that Holtz Claw, that that Adera gave holds
1457
01:11:43.079 --> 01:11:46.199
Claw her mother's cell phone number, which doesn't make any sense.
1458
01:11:46.560 --> 01:11:48.640
Daniel has always said that, well, no, he didn't get
1459
01:11:48.640 --> 01:11:51.039
a phone number from her. He pulled up and ran
1460
01:11:51.079 --> 01:11:54.000
the address and phone, you know, a contact number pops
1461
01:11:54.039 --> 01:11:56.039
up for that address because the police have had contact
1462
01:11:56.199 --> 01:11:58.319
were before. And he saw that it was the mother
1463
01:11:58.880 --> 01:12:00.479
the person you know, it's a rent, but the person
1464
01:12:00.479 --> 01:12:01.399
who's supposed to be there.
1465
01:12:01.640 --> 01:12:03.800
And that's what he called. And that he didn't call and.
1466
01:12:03.720 --> 01:12:05.960
Say, hey can I talk to Derek Gardner? He called
1467
01:12:05.960 --> 01:12:08.239
and said is there an a Derek Gardner that lives there?
1468
01:12:08.439 --> 01:12:10.560
I'm glad, seeah, you could take that as I'm asking
1469
01:12:10.600 --> 01:12:12.720
to talk to that person. But he's trying to verify
1470
01:12:12.760 --> 01:12:14.640
whether or not this person really lives there or not.
1471
01:12:14.840 --> 01:12:19.079
Okay, now he's saying that he pulled up her cut
1472
01:12:19.119 --> 01:12:22.199
the mother's cell phone number on a rental homes database. Now,
1473
01:12:22.239 --> 01:12:24.359
you and we both use those databases, right, and you
1474
01:12:24.359 --> 01:12:27.600
know that would be very difficult to come up with
1475
01:12:27.800 --> 01:12:30.039
a cell phone number someone with the I saw a
1476
01:12:30.039 --> 01:12:32.199
picture of that house too. They down said, they're they're
1477
01:12:32.239 --> 01:12:33.720
a lot of good credit, these folks.
1478
01:12:35.520 --> 01:12:37.520
It isn't the same database that you and I would
1479
01:12:37.560 --> 01:12:40.159
have access to. It's not a TLO or any of
1480
01:12:40.159 --> 01:12:43.399
those sorts of atabases. It's their own internal database that
1481
01:12:43.479 --> 01:12:46.760
only is available on their on their mobile data terminals.
1482
01:12:47.079 --> 01:12:48.640
And you bring it in and what it does is
1483
01:12:48.760 --> 01:12:51.079
it brings up you type in a person's name, you
1484
01:12:51.119 --> 01:12:53.960
get all kinds of notes about them. I've seen the
1485
01:12:53.960 --> 01:12:55.680
one for myself. I was allowed to take a cell
1486
01:12:55.680 --> 01:12:57.479
phone picture of it. It's kind of entertaining.
1487
01:12:58.439 --> 01:13:00.880
And then you do an ad or you do a
1488
01:13:00.880 --> 01:13:02.760
person and tells you all their street names, all.
1489
01:13:02.720 --> 01:13:04.880
Their known associates, things like that. If you type in
1490
01:13:04.880 --> 01:13:07.479
an address, it'll tell you all contacts that police have
1491
01:13:07.520 --> 01:13:10.199
had with that. It'll say people that have resided there.
1492
01:13:10.399 --> 01:13:12.800
You will give you all of their contact information. It's
1493
01:13:12.840 --> 01:13:16.159
just part of their intail that they have, So actually
1494
01:13:16.159 --> 01:13:17.760
it would be very calm. You could go up and
1495
01:13:17.760 --> 01:13:20.039
down the street and type in anyone's address and if
1496
01:13:20.039 --> 01:13:22.880
there's been any police contact or anything there before, you're
1497
01:13:22.920 --> 01:13:25.680
going to have the most recent contact. That's how they
1498
01:13:25.720 --> 01:13:28.680
go look for people during warrants, all those sorts of things,
1499
01:13:28.720 --> 01:13:33.319
so that it completely jibs with what and they they
1500
01:13:33.479 --> 01:13:37.079
didn't question that series of events because that wouldn't make sense.
1501
01:13:37.119 --> 01:13:40.479
What to me may really stood out was her describing
1502
01:13:40.560 --> 01:13:43.600
him as a hot pop mom admitting she never even
1503
01:13:43.640 --> 01:13:46.199
allowed Daniel to explain while he was calling, he was
1504
01:13:46.239 --> 01:13:48.960
simply calling to see does this seventeen year old actually
1505
01:13:49.000 --> 01:13:51.800
live there. It certainly wouldn't make sense for an officer
1506
01:13:52.279 --> 01:13:54.880
Paul and be trying to have a sexual liaison in
1507
01:13:54.880 --> 01:13:56.439
World War One with someone that he raped on the
1508
01:13:56.479 --> 01:13:59.319
front porch that she's now describing as hot, or to
1509
01:13:59.319 --> 01:14:04.119
ask this girl out again if you know, knowing that
1510
01:14:04.159 --> 01:14:07.359
she's underage and that he isn't. None of those details
1511
01:14:07.359 --> 01:14:08.960
made sense, And a couple of things you also have
1512
01:14:09.039 --> 01:14:12.880
to understand background wise, Adara wasn't being raised by her mother.
1513
01:14:12.960 --> 01:14:15.680
Adara was just in town visiting at the time. She
1514
01:14:15.720 --> 01:14:18.560
spent an awful lot of time in Detroit and in
1515
01:14:18.600 --> 01:14:21.640
other cities. She had a long documented history of being
1516
01:14:21.640 --> 01:14:24.319
involved in prostitution, where's based on her age, it would
1517
01:14:24.319 --> 01:14:27.399
actually be considered a human trafficking victim because she was
1518
01:14:27.479 --> 01:14:30.920
under eighteen, she couldn't even consent to the crime of prostitution.
1519
01:14:31.359 --> 01:14:34.279
But regardless of all of and she's had numerous arrests.
1520
01:14:34.279 --> 01:14:37.000
She's had arrest for breaking into a man's house and
1521
01:14:37.000 --> 01:14:40.079
attacking him with a machete. So this is a woman
1522
01:14:40.119 --> 01:14:42.680
you've got to be very careful about what she says.
1523
01:14:42.760 --> 01:14:44.600
So you just got to look at her actions around
1524
01:14:44.600 --> 01:14:48.479
this event, and those actions do not support that she
1525
01:14:48.640 --> 01:14:50.640
was a sexual assault victim. But then people go back
1526
01:14:50.680 --> 01:14:53.880
to the DNA. No, no way, wait before the decriminating DNA.
1527
01:14:54.000 --> 01:14:54.960
And I got to tell you.
1528
01:14:54.840 --> 01:14:57.680
Wait, wait, Brian, before we get to the DNA. This
1529
01:14:57.800 --> 01:14:59.960
thing about the cell phone again, Now, has this been
1530
01:15:00.159 --> 01:15:04.880
because she's claiming she gave him the number and he's claiming, no,
1531
01:15:05.039 --> 01:15:07.600
I looked it up in his database. Has this been duplicated?
1532
01:15:07.600 --> 01:15:09.000
Have we been able to find out if it's in
1533
01:15:09.039 --> 01:15:10.800
this database. Has anybody tried to look there and see
1534
01:15:10.800 --> 01:15:11.359
if it's in there?
1535
01:15:11.760 --> 01:15:13.960
I would have to go back onto the on the
1536
01:15:14.000 --> 01:15:16.359
transcripts and see. I know it didn't really become an
1537
01:15:16.399 --> 01:15:19.760
issue one way or the other, because either yes, he
1538
01:15:19.800 --> 01:15:22.159
could have pulled it up by just running the address
1539
01:15:22.199 --> 01:15:25.279
and finding out who was there through police systems, or
1540
01:15:25.479 --> 01:15:28.239
he could have insisted from a Derek Gardner, I want
1541
01:15:28.279 --> 01:15:29.880
to make sure this really is this house, and this
1542
01:15:30.000 --> 01:15:32.840
really is you? What's the contact phone number? And you
1543
01:15:32.880 --> 01:15:36.119
know it could have gone that way too. That's not
1544
01:15:36.319 --> 01:15:39.439
how I was told that that Daniel recalled it at
1545
01:15:39.439 --> 01:15:43.800
the time. Either way, both scenarios to me make perfect sense.
1546
01:15:43.840 --> 01:15:45.840
Either insisting on a phone number so that because you're
1547
01:15:45.880 --> 01:15:48.239
a minor, so I can make contact with with the
1548
01:15:48.279 --> 01:15:50.560
adult that lives here to find out why this miner
1549
01:15:50.600 --> 01:15:53.680
is kind of running free with known pimps and drug dealers,
1550
01:15:54.039 --> 01:15:57.600
or that you enter the inner the address into the
1551
01:15:57.680 --> 01:15:59.920
database and it tells you who to contact. To me,
1552
01:16:00.199 --> 01:16:02.880
either one's fine. It certainly wouldn't make sense that he
1553
01:16:02.920 --> 01:16:05.199
would rape her on the front porch. She'd say he's
1554
01:16:05.239 --> 01:16:08.359
this really hot cop, and then he'd be calling intentionally
1555
01:16:08.439 --> 01:16:11.039
knowing he's going to now get the miner's mother and
1556
01:16:11.079 --> 01:16:13.319
he would identify himself as a cop and try to
1557
01:16:13.319 --> 01:16:15.760
talk to her. Now, had he called and not identified
1558
01:16:15.800 --> 01:16:18.640
himself as a police officer, had he used a phone
1559
01:16:18.720 --> 01:16:22.560
number not associated to him in his patrol car, then yes,
1560
01:16:22.680 --> 01:16:24.279
that that would have been problematic.
1561
01:16:24.319 --> 01:16:26.279
But that's not how it happened.
1562
01:16:26.119 --> 01:16:28.760
Okay, But it sounds like from her point of view,
1563
01:16:28.760 --> 01:16:31.439
then this was from a person who has been human trafficked,
1564
01:16:31.600 --> 01:16:34.399
like you said, since a very young age, that she
1565
01:16:34.439 --> 01:16:35.680
would have low self esteem.
1566
01:16:35.880 --> 01:16:38.079
To come back to is the You got to take
1567
01:16:38.119 --> 01:16:40.079
all the white ifs out of it because there's just
1568
01:16:40.119 --> 01:16:42.720
simply no evidence to show any of the any of
1569
01:16:42.760 --> 01:16:45.119
the white ifs. What we do know is that by
1570
01:16:45.159 --> 01:16:48.760
the time police made contact with a Derek, I mean,
1571
01:16:48.800 --> 01:16:52.439
this wasn't immediately after that it happened. I mean Adara
1572
01:16:52.800 --> 01:16:58.520
Gardner claims that this all happened back in June of fourteen.
1573
01:16:58.960 --> 01:17:02.760
She wasn't contact did until or the mother wasn't contact
1574
01:17:02.760 --> 01:17:06.680
that it wasn't identified into contacted until October of fourteen.
1575
01:17:07.000 --> 01:17:09.479
At that time of Era wasn't at home, She didn't
1576
01:17:09.479 --> 01:17:11.319
spend very much time in the news at this point.
1577
01:17:11.600 --> 01:17:13.800
Then her daughter calls in and says, Yep, I'm one
1578
01:17:13.800 --> 01:17:17.840
of those victims too. It's all very convenient because you
1579
01:17:17.880 --> 01:17:20.079
have to keep in mind the police had to go
1580
01:17:20.159 --> 01:17:23.000
out and find all of these accusers, all of these
1581
01:17:23.000 --> 01:17:25.279
alleged victims, the police, they had to go out and
1582
01:17:25.319 --> 01:17:25.840
find them.
1583
01:17:26.239 --> 01:17:28.720
Okay, so the police had suspend, you know, they wanted
1584
01:17:28.760 --> 01:17:33.199
to find more victims. They contacted these the Gardner family,
1585
01:17:33.760 --> 01:17:35.720
and then they googled it and they saw all we
1586
01:17:35.760 --> 01:17:38.880
have these these accusations and just coincidentally, they just happened
1587
01:17:38.880 --> 01:17:42.560
to have this old background of some kind of attraction
1588
01:17:42.760 --> 01:17:45.920
or contact with each other on that port and you
1589
01:17:45.960 --> 01:17:47.720
know what I'm saying, man, And then there was her
1590
01:17:47.840 --> 01:17:48.880
DNA was found on.
1591
01:17:48.840 --> 01:17:52.760
His zipper, right, And that, to me, that was the
1592
01:17:52.760 --> 01:17:55.720
most compelling evidence against Daniel. And it was one of
1593
01:17:55.800 --> 01:17:58.000
the reasons that the whole time I worked on the case,
1594
01:17:58.000 --> 01:18:00.359
which you have to understand, I wasn't his defense I
1595
01:18:00.399 --> 01:18:03.760
was an investigator, really hired by the defense attorney to
1596
01:18:03.800 --> 01:18:06.000
try to figure out what Daniel was telling the truth
1597
01:18:06.039 --> 01:18:08.439
about and what he might be lying about. Because a
1598
01:18:08.479 --> 01:18:10.800
lot of people don't realize it. Criminal defendants lie to
1599
01:18:10.840 --> 01:18:13.199
their defense team all the time, and the worst thing
1600
01:18:13.239 --> 01:18:14.720
you want to do is be lied to and set
1601
01:18:14.760 --> 01:18:17.920
yourself up to step into a trapid trial. And the
1602
01:18:18.000 --> 01:18:20.359
DNA was one of those things. I kept telling Daniel,
1603
01:18:20.560 --> 01:18:23.640
I don't know an awful lot about DNA, and so
1604
01:18:23.800 --> 01:18:26.079
this is one that really bothers me. It was only
1605
01:18:26.079 --> 01:18:28.840
two weeks before trial that we met with the DNA expert,
1606
01:18:29.000 --> 01:18:31.600
and the DNA expert looked over the DNA test looked
1607
01:18:31.600 --> 01:18:36.239
over the testimony and said, this DNA evidence means absolutely nothing.
1608
01:18:36.520 --> 01:18:39.920
And several DNA experts now have come forward after the
1609
01:18:39.960 --> 01:18:42.920
fact we've reviewed the DNA evidence and said, this is
1610
01:18:42.920 --> 01:18:46.039
a problem that we face in today's CSI society where
1611
01:18:46.039 --> 01:18:48.800
we watched CSI too much and we see DNA and
1612
01:18:48.840 --> 01:18:51.800
we think it's saying something that it's not. And that's
1613
01:18:51.800 --> 01:18:55.079
what Daniel ran into. Well, I didn't know anything about
1614
01:18:55.159 --> 01:18:57.680
DNA or the different types of DNA, But what ends
1615
01:18:57.720 --> 01:19:01.399
up getting testified to even by the prosecution, was that
1616
01:19:01.439 --> 01:19:05.399
the DNA evidence was simply skin cells. She claims that
1617
01:19:05.439 --> 01:19:08.720
she was bent over and vaginally raped. Even the prosecution
1618
01:19:08.880 --> 01:19:12.880
admitted the DNA expert, Elane Taylor, that there was no
1619
01:19:13.279 --> 01:19:16.840
indications of any bodily fluids, There was no indications of semen,
1620
01:19:17.039 --> 01:19:20.119
there was no indications of saliva, there was no indications
1621
01:19:20.199 --> 01:19:23.319
of vaginal fluids anywhere. And that the DNA that was
1622
01:19:23.319 --> 01:19:25.840
present on the zipper, and the DNA present on the
1623
01:19:25.920 --> 01:19:29.680
zipper was in such small amounts that they actually found
1624
01:19:29.960 --> 01:19:33.640
more DNA belonging to Daniel on just a door handle
1625
01:19:33.640 --> 01:19:35.560
of a car where you literally touch it for a
1626
01:19:35.640 --> 01:19:38.560
second than they found on the zipper, And that it
1627
01:19:38.600 --> 01:19:41.600
was simply skin cells that could have come from any
1628
01:19:41.640 --> 01:19:43.560
part of your body. Well, I still think of all
1629
01:19:43.560 --> 01:19:45.920
the places where it end up, your zippers a pretty
1630
01:19:45.960 --> 01:19:48.199
bizarre place for that to happen. That's what's going on
1631
01:19:48.239 --> 01:19:51.279
through my mind. DNA expert point I said, well, here's
1632
01:19:51.279 --> 01:19:54.039
the problem with it. They didn't test anywhere but the zipper.
1633
01:19:54.279 --> 01:19:57.000
So for all we know, her DNA was inside of
1634
01:19:57.000 --> 01:19:59.840
his pockets, her DNA was on the cuff of his pants.
1635
01:20:00.159 --> 01:20:03.159
Her DNA could have been anywhere that Daniel would have touched.
1636
01:20:03.199 --> 01:20:05.199
Because one of the things that did stick out was
1637
01:20:05.239 --> 01:20:09.760
from the reports. When Daniel stopped the three individuals, a gardener,
1638
01:20:09.920 --> 01:20:12.800
the other female in the pimp, he patted everybody down,
1639
01:20:13.119 --> 01:20:15.600
and by Gardner's own admission, she was wearing this little
1640
01:20:15.600 --> 01:20:18.239
crop top kind of thing. She had skin that was exposed.
1641
01:20:18.840 --> 01:20:21.199
The male officers are allowed to pat the women down.
1642
01:20:21.239 --> 01:20:23.600
They do it, you know, they have a certain procedure they.
1643
01:20:23.760 --> 01:20:26.159
Follow, but they can make hand you know, skin to
1644
01:20:26.199 --> 01:20:27.439
skin contact with them.
1645
01:20:27.840 --> 01:20:31.680
Patted them down. But then Daniel also and Derek Gardner
1646
01:20:32.039 --> 01:20:34.439
admitted to this a trial. Daniel spent a lot of
1647
01:20:34.439 --> 01:20:37.640
time going through her purse looking for contraband she had
1648
01:20:37.720 --> 01:20:40.520
combs inside there. She had many personal items that would
1649
01:20:40.560 --> 01:20:43.439
have had her DNA on them, and his hands.
1650
01:20:43.119 --> 01:20:44.880
Are all over those items.
1651
01:20:45.119 --> 01:20:47.840
Now, at any point Daniel goes to as guys will do,
1652
01:20:47.960 --> 01:20:51.640
adjust himself, goes to use the restroom, goes to do
1653
01:20:51.720 --> 01:20:54.319
any of those sorts of things. Any DNA that could
1654
01:20:54.319 --> 01:20:56.199
be on his hand could be transferred, and they call
1655
01:20:56.239 --> 01:20:59.800
it transfer DNA or touch DNA. The one thing that
1656
01:20:59.840 --> 01:21:02.800
bothers me the most and should bother people when this
1657
01:21:02.840 --> 01:21:06.359
thing came to trial, two things bothered me. One Elaine
1658
01:21:06.359 --> 01:21:09.199
Taylor testified to an awful lot of things about the DNA.
1659
01:21:09.319 --> 01:21:12.039
She was the state's DNA expert for the police department.
1660
01:21:12.359 --> 01:21:15.159
One thing that she never bothered to disclose was that
1661
01:21:15.239 --> 01:21:18.800
she was the mother in law of lead investigator Rocky Gregory.
1662
01:21:19.000 --> 01:21:20.840
She never says that, oh, I may have a little
1663
01:21:20.840 --> 01:21:24.399
conflict here because the second lead investigator is my son
1664
01:21:24.439 --> 01:21:27.640
in law. We thought that was a little problematic. But
1665
01:21:27.680 --> 01:21:31.880
the big thing scientifically was she testified that they found
1666
01:21:31.880 --> 01:21:36.239
this girl's DNA on there. But what she didn't testify
1667
01:21:36.279 --> 01:21:38.960
to and what her test clearly show, and it's part
1668
01:21:39.000 --> 01:21:42.720
of Daniel's appeal, is that she also found DNA belonging
1669
01:21:42.760 --> 01:21:45.760
to other people on the fly of Daniel's pants, males,
1670
01:21:46.159 --> 01:21:49.560
and that she testified that Daniel was excluded as being
1671
01:21:49.640 --> 01:21:53.199
one of the contributors. So she testified that another male's
1672
01:21:53.279 --> 01:21:56.039
DNA was also on the zipper of his pants, and
1673
01:21:56.079 --> 01:21:58.159
she testified she had excluded Daniel.
1674
01:21:58.159 --> 01:21:58.800
It wasn't him.
1675
01:21:59.079 --> 01:22:01.399
So if you're going to claim to the DNA of
1676
01:22:01.439 --> 01:22:04.039
Adaric Gardner being on his zipper proves that he sexually
1677
01:22:04.039 --> 01:22:06.479
assaulted her, then you also have to assert that I
1678
01:22:06.479 --> 01:22:09.560
guess he also raped some man that never came forward,
1679
01:22:09.920 --> 01:22:12.079
and I think people would have to make your starting
1680
01:22:12.119 --> 01:22:15.960
to look a little desperate at that point. I don't
1681
01:22:16.000 --> 01:22:18.319
know a lot about DNA, but I know I educated
1682
01:22:18.319 --> 01:22:21.159
myself on it. When you start googling touch DNA or
1683
01:22:21.199 --> 01:22:24.640
transferred DNA, it is really scary. There have been instances
1684
01:22:24.680 --> 01:22:28.359
where individuals were charged with crimes and come to find
1685
01:22:28.399 --> 01:22:31.159
out they were never at the scene, they never touched
1686
01:22:31.199 --> 01:22:34.439
the murder weapon. But if you and I shake hands
1687
01:22:34.680 --> 01:22:36.880
and then I go pick up a gun, there is
1688
01:22:36.920 --> 01:22:39.920
a relatively good chance your DNA is on that gun
1689
01:22:39.960 --> 01:22:43.159
and you've never even seen that gun before. That's how
1690
01:22:43.239 --> 01:22:46.840
specific and precise DNA testing has become at this point.
1691
01:22:46.960 --> 01:22:50.119
It didn't used to be that specific and precise, but
1692
01:22:50.239 --> 01:22:53.239
it is now. And they never admitted to that. And
1693
01:22:53.279 --> 01:22:56.840
what was scary was the jurors admitted later that they
1694
01:22:56.840 --> 01:22:59.640
were actually ready to acquit Daniel Holtzklow because there simply
1695
01:22:59.800 --> 01:23:03.279
was any direct evidence. But it was the DNA that
1696
01:23:03.399 --> 01:23:07.319
really convinced them that something must have happened. And the
1697
01:23:07.359 --> 01:23:11.199
problem with that came with the prosecutor, Assistant District Attorney
1698
01:23:11.640 --> 01:23:14.560
Galen Gigger. The very last thing he was allowed to
1699
01:23:14.600 --> 01:23:16.359
say to the jury before they went back.
1700
01:23:16.159 --> 01:23:18.880
To deliberate was he specifically said.
1701
01:23:18.600 --> 01:23:21.880
That that DNA came from the vaginal walls of a
1702
01:23:21.920 --> 01:23:24.640
seventeen year old and that's how it got on his zipper.
1703
01:23:24.760 --> 01:23:27.279
And that is not as what was testified to their
1704
01:23:27.319 --> 01:23:30.960
own DNA experts said there was no presence of vaginal fluid,
1705
01:23:31.039 --> 01:23:34.000
semen or any other fluids, and that that DNA was
1706
01:23:34.039 --> 01:23:37.399
simply skin cells vaginal DNA, and I guess assumed somebody
1707
01:23:37.439 --> 01:23:39.720
would object at that point, but it's closing arguments, so
1708
01:23:39.760 --> 01:23:41.960
you get a lot of leeway. And they admitted later
1709
01:23:42.000 --> 01:23:44.880
that it was a DNA testimony that convicted you.
1710
01:23:44.920 --> 01:23:48.479
Know, Okay, we got to take a commercial break with
1711
01:23:48.520 --> 01:23:51.760
Brian Bates, a private investigator. We're talking about the Daniel
1712
01:23:51.840 --> 01:23:55.960
Holtzklaw case, and you find it at Holtzklaw Trial dot com.
1713
01:23:56.439 --> 01:23:58.239
If you just tuned in keep an eye on for
1714
01:23:58.319 --> 01:24:00.520
Daniel's podcast and be coming up. You can find that
1715
01:24:00.560 --> 01:24:03.439
at Holtsclaw Trial dot com. And also so if you
1716
01:24:03.479 --> 01:24:05.720
need a PI over there in Oklahoma, check out the
1717
01:24:07.159 --> 01:24:10.720
real quick what is this saying again, Bates Investigates, Bates
1718
01:24:10.840 --> 01:24:14.239
Investigates dot com. We'll be right back after these messages
1719
01:24:14.279 --> 01:24:18.199
with more Brian Bates and the Daniel Holtzclaw case.
1720
01:24:20.239 --> 01:24:25.119
And now a word from our sponsors, WPR Rebuddle covering
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We all have questions, did he do it? Or did
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he not?
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We all have opinions, but do we really know the truth?
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and on Friday nights too, we do a live portion
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for one hour that I just do a line monologue.
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can find William Ramsey who was an excellent author at
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William Ramsey Investigates on YouTube. Okay, welcome back to the
1794
01:28:36.000 --> 01:28:39.079
Opperman Report. We're here with Brian Bates, private investigator. We're
1795
01:28:39.119 --> 01:28:42.439
talking about the Daniel holtzklaw case. So now, Brian, I
1796
01:28:42.479 --> 01:28:44.880
got I'm confused about something here because we talked about
1797
01:28:44.880 --> 01:28:48.399
he had the Ligands accusation and he was pulled. He
1798
01:28:48.479 --> 01:28:52.600
was pulled off patrol right after that allegation, right right.
1799
01:28:52.840 --> 01:28:56.479
The afternoon of the eighteenth. He was he was they
1800
01:28:56.520 --> 01:28:59.800
took it well, actually, if you watch the interrogation online,
1801
01:29:00.239 --> 01:29:02.760
they took his badge, they took his gun, they took
1802
01:29:02.840 --> 01:29:05.000
his clothes from him. He took his pants off during
1803
01:29:05.039 --> 01:29:07.720
the interview because those are the same pants that he
1804
01:29:07.760 --> 01:29:10.319
had on, which is interesting. The pants they found the
1805
01:29:10.399 --> 01:29:13.119
DNA on were the pants that he had on. Now,
1806
01:29:13.159 --> 01:29:16.640
she claims that she was raped on the seventeenth, which
1807
01:29:16.640 --> 01:29:18.560
would have been you know, he had a shift that
1808
01:29:18.600 --> 01:29:21.159
started on the seventeenth into two am on the eighteenth.
1809
01:29:21.159 --> 01:29:23.880
They're claiming that he sexually assaulted three women on his
1810
01:29:23.960 --> 01:29:27.479
final shift. He sexually assaulted a Daria Gardner, who's a
1811
01:29:27.520 --> 01:29:30.640
seventeen year old, a woman by the name of Kayla Lyles,
1812
01:29:30.840 --> 01:29:34.199
and Jannie Liggins, a grandmother, all three within one shift.
1813
01:29:34.399 --> 01:29:37.880
They take his pants and yet they found the DNA
1814
01:29:38.039 --> 01:29:40.479
of a Darra Gardner, but it's skin cell DNA. They
1815
01:29:40.479 --> 01:29:44.039
find no evidence of any sexual fluids on his pants
1816
01:29:44.079 --> 01:29:46.560
at all, but they don't find DNA from the other
1817
01:29:46.600 --> 01:29:50.239
two alleged victims. And something else that I found interesting.
1818
01:29:50.319 --> 01:29:52.680
Even though he offers it up, he says, I'll do anything.
1819
01:29:52.720 --> 01:29:55.319
I'll take a light detector, you can search anything, do
1820
01:29:55.399 --> 01:29:57.520
whatever you got to do. They don't even go to
1821
01:29:57.560 --> 01:30:00.760
his apartment and grab his He has three more changes
1822
01:30:00.800 --> 01:30:04.039
of uniform. They don't even take his underwear. They think
1823
01:30:04.079 --> 01:30:06.920
this guy is a serial rapist, and they let him
1824
01:30:06.960 --> 01:30:09.560
keep his underwear on. They don't take him. They don't
1825
01:30:09.560 --> 01:30:11.319
go to his house and get into his dirty clothes
1826
01:30:11.359 --> 01:30:13.600
hamper to get other clothes that he had on or
1827
01:30:13.640 --> 01:30:15.840
other underwear so they can try to find more DNA.
1828
01:30:16.119 --> 01:30:18.319
They don't take his cell phone to examine it. They
1829
01:30:18.319 --> 01:30:21.159
don't take his computers to try to examine them. They
1830
01:30:21.199 --> 01:30:23.239
don't do any of those things that you would assume
1831
01:30:23.760 --> 01:30:24.880
just would be police work.
1832
01:30:24.960 --> 01:30:27.600
One oh one, oh boy. Yeah.
1833
01:30:27.920 --> 01:30:31.880
But you, hey, man, he might have gotten lucky because listen,
1834
01:30:32.159 --> 01:30:34.800
you know, if you're a claiming okay, it's so common
1835
01:30:34.840 --> 01:30:37.159
to get you you pull somebody over on a traffic
1836
01:30:37.239 --> 01:30:39.079
stop and you get their DNA and your zipper. Then
1837
01:30:39.119 --> 01:30:41.640
he would have all these women's DNA on his zipper
1838
01:30:41.640 --> 01:30:45.720
and his underwear and his socks, now, wouldn't he, he's.
1839
01:30:45.600 --> 01:30:48.000
Saying, man, just like you pointed out, yeah, then you
1840
01:30:48.039 --> 01:30:51.039
also get mailed DNA there too, So you either got
1841
01:30:51.039 --> 01:30:53.720
to decide does that mean he has mailed victims or
1842
01:30:53.880 --> 01:30:56.680
are you willing to concede. It's just very common to
1843
01:30:56.720 --> 01:30:59.600
pass DNA around when you come into contact with DNA
1844
01:30:59.600 --> 01:31:01.640
because you can. I'm into physical contact with people all
1845
01:31:01.760 --> 01:31:04.439
day long. Are you saying he had male and female victims,
1846
01:31:04.479 --> 01:31:07.399
or are you willing to admit that DNA simply is transferred
1847
01:31:07.439 --> 01:31:10.319
a whole lot easier than the general public understands.
1848
01:31:10.520 --> 01:31:13.079
No, DNA has transmitted a lot easier than the general
1849
01:31:13.119 --> 01:31:16.119
public understands. I'll absolutely say that. But now are you
1850
01:31:16.159 --> 01:31:17.960
trying to tell me, though, that you believe that I'm
1851
01:31:17.960 --> 01:31:19.840
not saying that he deserves two hundred years or a
1852
01:31:19.840 --> 01:31:23.319
life sentence for his contact with this traffic seventeen year old.
1853
01:31:23.560 --> 01:31:25.439
But do you believe that his contact back and forth
1854
01:31:25.479 --> 01:31:28.119
with his seventeen year old picking her up off the street,
1855
01:31:28.560 --> 01:31:32.279
on a second contact with her, driving her home, having
1856
01:31:32.319 --> 01:31:35.239
some kind of where she feels that she went to
1857
01:31:35.279 --> 01:31:37.760
the extreme effort of telling him that I've just met
1858
01:31:37.760 --> 01:31:40.359
a hot cop who wants to date me, then calling
1859
01:31:40.760 --> 01:31:43.680
the home there and then all of this activity with
1860
01:31:43.680 --> 01:31:45.359
the seventeen year old. You find that appropriate?
1861
01:31:46.119 --> 01:31:48.800
Well, I think, well I didn't. There certainly wasn't anything
1862
01:31:49.039 --> 01:31:51.479
illegal about what was being said. I could certainly see
1863
01:31:51.479 --> 01:31:54.159
a seventeen year old. If you get Daniel Holtzklaw, who
1864
01:31:54.199 --> 01:31:57.479
is a big guy, a big good looking guy. He stops.
1865
01:31:57.720 --> 01:32:00.479
He's he probably was acting friendly with her, trying to
1866
01:32:00.520 --> 01:32:02.479
get her to feel comfortable with him and share some
1867
01:32:02.479 --> 01:32:04.199
additional information and details.
1868
01:32:04.399 --> 01:32:06.439
And she thinks, you know, he's a good looking guy,
1869
01:32:06.720 --> 01:32:07.279
and she's.
1870
01:32:07.119 --> 01:32:10.520
Spent the better part of her young life, you know,
1871
01:32:11.479 --> 01:32:15.560
involved in sexual activities, either either consensually or non consensually,
1872
01:32:15.960 --> 01:32:19.319
and so she probably she may have perceived him most
1873
01:32:19.359 --> 01:32:22.199
women probably perceived him as a good looking guy. But
1874
01:32:22.319 --> 01:32:24.800
to try to think that she was raped and then
1875
01:32:24.920 --> 01:32:27.399
referred to him as a hot cop, and that she
1876
01:32:27.520 --> 01:32:29.560
gave out her mother's phone number to him, and he
1877
01:32:29.640 --> 01:32:32.359
called her mother, knowing that she's a miner to try
1878
01:32:32.359 --> 01:32:35.600
to talk to her. None of those things makes sense
1879
01:32:35.960 --> 01:32:39.159
at all. And when Danga wasn't able to explain himself,
1880
01:32:39.199 --> 01:32:40.880
because she even admits I just hung up on him
1881
01:32:40.880 --> 01:32:42.479
as soon as she as soon as he said as
1882
01:32:42.520 --> 01:32:46.000
an Adrek Gardner lived there, you know, it didn't give
1883
01:32:46.039 --> 01:32:48.439
a chance for him too, even to defend himself. But
1884
01:32:48.479 --> 01:32:51.239
what there isn't present is there is not any evidence
1885
01:32:51.279 --> 01:32:54.000
that a sexual assault occurred. And of course we've talked
1886
01:32:54.199 --> 01:32:56.279
about two of the thirteen that leaves eleven.
1887
01:32:56.319 --> 01:32:57.960
But of those two Janie Liggins.
1888
01:32:58.000 --> 01:33:00.800
He received twenty one years for her accusation, not a
1889
01:33:00.840 --> 01:33:03.920
shred of evidence that a crime was committed. Many of
1890
01:33:03.960 --> 01:33:07.640
her details didn't match Daniel's details, but Daniels held up
1891
01:33:07.680 --> 01:33:11.000
under the scrutiny of forensic examination. Yet he's still got
1892
01:33:11.039 --> 01:33:14.760
twenty one years. A Derek Gardner, which there was DNA present,
1893
01:33:14.800 --> 01:33:17.279
but the DNA was simply skin cell DNA, and she's
1894
01:33:17.319 --> 01:33:20.760
referring to her supposed rapist as a hot cop never
1895
01:33:20.840 --> 01:33:23.279
claims that she's been raped until they google him find
1896
01:33:23.279 --> 01:33:26.640
out that he's accused of raping somebody. He gets fifty
1897
01:33:26.720 --> 01:33:28.680
years from her. But that's not the one that should
1898
01:33:28.680 --> 01:33:29.319
blow your mind.
1899
01:33:30.680 --> 01:33:32.119
Before we get to that last one, let me just
1900
01:33:32.119 --> 01:33:35.000
test it this. This is a cop who has twenty
1901
01:33:35.920 --> 01:33:41.119
twelve aggressive cop complaints against him in twenty four months, okay,
1902
01:33:41.560 --> 01:33:43.800
And now he's talking to his mother. He's calling into
1903
01:33:43.840 --> 01:33:46.279
according to him, to investigate this girl to find out
1904
01:33:46.319 --> 01:33:48.840
what them to warn the mother, and the mother just says,
1905
01:33:48.840 --> 01:33:50.079
I don't want to talk to you. I'm hanging up,
1906
01:33:50.079 --> 01:33:52.279
And this aggressive cop doesn't call back and say, wait
1907
01:33:52.319 --> 01:33:54.600
a minute, hold on, this is a police investigation. I
1908
01:33:54.800 --> 01:33:56.840
need to talk to you. I'm coming over there right now.
1909
01:33:57.319 --> 01:34:00.560
Well, it wasn't a police investigation. She hadn't committed a crime.
1910
01:34:00.840 --> 01:34:03.119
He simply wanted to verify that the person that was
1911
01:34:03.119 --> 01:34:06.800
giving him the identifying information, that's who that person was,
1912
01:34:06.880 --> 01:34:09.439
and if it was, he simply wanted to inform the
1913
01:34:09.479 --> 01:34:12.600
mother that your minor daughter is running around with people
1914
01:34:12.640 --> 01:34:15.640
that I know to be pimson prostitutes. And it either
1915
01:34:15.680 --> 01:34:17.600
needed to serve as a warning or the mom would
1916
01:34:17.640 --> 01:34:19.600
be like, son of your damn business, who my daughter
1917
01:34:19.680 --> 01:34:20.319
runs around with?
1918
01:34:20.399 --> 01:34:20.880
I don't know.
1919
01:34:21.119 --> 01:34:24.119
Earlier that day, something we didn't talk about. Earlier that day,
1920
01:34:24.479 --> 01:34:26.880
the mother had had a confrontation with her daughter because
1921
01:34:26.880 --> 01:34:29.239
she had just reported her daughter as a runaway for
1922
01:34:29.319 --> 01:34:32.239
the umpteenth time. She remarked to the police officer, she
1923
01:34:32.319 --> 01:34:35.479
runs away all the time. She ran away that day?
1924
01:34:35.680 --> 01:34:37.720
Where did her mother go to? Looking for on the
1925
01:34:37.760 --> 01:34:40.279
stroll where all the street prostitutes are. So she drove
1926
01:34:40.319 --> 01:34:42.840
over to the south part of town, another area where
1927
01:34:42.840 --> 01:34:45.279
there's lots of prostitution, and she assumed her mother wouldn't
1928
01:34:45.319 --> 01:34:48.520
find her. Her mother drives down there, sees her daughter
1929
01:34:48.680 --> 01:34:52.680
out on the street South Robinson, most likely prostituting confronts
1930
01:34:52.720 --> 01:34:55.520
her daughter. Her daughter hits her in the face. Mother
1931
01:34:55.640 --> 01:34:57.640
calls police and says, I want to report my daughter
1932
01:34:57.680 --> 01:34:59.520
as a runaway because she's a miner, and I want
1933
01:34:59.520 --> 01:35:02.800
to report that she assaulted me. She signs a ticket
1934
01:35:02.840 --> 01:35:06.000
for assault and battery against her daughter. At trial under oath,
1935
01:35:06.159 --> 01:35:09.119
her mother denies all of it, denies everything. No, we
1936
01:35:09.159 --> 01:35:11.720
didn't get into a confrontation. No, she didn't hit me, ma'am.
1937
01:35:11.720 --> 01:35:13.640
Here's the ticket you signed. Oh, I didn't know what
1938
01:35:13.720 --> 01:35:16.039
I was signing, ma'am. At the top it says really
1939
01:35:16.159 --> 01:35:19.800
big domestic assault and battery. Yeah, I didn't. I don't
1940
01:35:19.800 --> 01:35:22.199
remember signing that. I don't think I ever did. Her
1941
01:35:22.199 --> 01:35:25.239
mother is not to be trusted or believed. Obviously, the
1942
01:35:25.319 --> 01:35:27.920
daughter has a troubled pass so there's no telling how
1943
01:35:27.920 --> 01:35:30.399
she's perceiving things or what she.
1944
01:35:30.439 --> 01:35:32.680
Might have thought. Daniel, you know a guy being nice
1945
01:35:32.680 --> 01:35:34.439
to her? What does that mean? Oh? Is he flirting
1946
01:35:34.479 --> 01:35:36.239
with me? Or ah? Is he just being nice to me?
1947
01:35:36.800 --> 01:35:38.840
But I don't think under any stretch of the imagination,
1948
01:35:38.960 --> 01:35:41.640
you describe your rapist as a hot cop, and then
1949
01:35:41.680 --> 01:35:45.520
you have a mother that signs domestic assault and battery
1950
01:35:45.560 --> 01:35:47.640
complaints against her own daughter, and then goes into a
1951
01:35:47.720 --> 01:35:50.079
court and doesn't care that she's under oath and says, no,
1952
01:35:50.199 --> 01:35:52.680
it didn't happen, even though her signature is on the
1953
01:35:52.720 --> 01:35:57.159
complaint from that day. Again, when you dealing with cases
1954
01:35:57.159 --> 01:36:00.920
that don't have any direct forensic evidence, don't have any witnesses,
1955
01:36:00.960 --> 01:36:04.079
the only thing you can rely on is credibility, and
1956
01:36:04.119 --> 01:36:08.199
they've yet to produce a single credible witness. And again,
1957
01:36:08.239 --> 01:36:10.439
like I was saying, the one that should blow your mind.
1958
01:36:10.800 --> 01:36:12.560
But let me get to that, and I want to
1959
01:36:12.560 --> 01:36:14.319
get to it. But what about polygraphs? Were there any
1960
01:36:14.359 --> 01:36:15.720
polygraphs in this investigation?
1961
01:36:16.279 --> 01:36:16.680
Daniel?
1962
01:36:16.720 --> 01:36:19.439
As you see if you watch the interrogation video, he
1963
01:36:19.520 --> 01:36:21.640
offered to do a polygraph and said he would do one,
1964
01:36:21.680 --> 01:36:23.359
and they said they weren't prepared to give him one
1965
01:36:23.359 --> 01:36:25.479
on that day. Well, as soon as he leaves he
1966
01:36:25.640 --> 01:36:28.439
is because he's part of the Paternal Order of Police,
1967
01:36:28.760 --> 01:36:32.920
he initially became under their legal guidance. And when they
1968
01:36:32.960 --> 01:36:36.159
contacted the FOP for him to do a polygraph exam,
1969
01:36:36.520 --> 01:36:39.079
their attorney of Susan Knight I believe is their name,
1970
01:36:39.279 --> 01:36:42.000
she said, no, we don't allow any police officers to
1971
01:36:42.079 --> 01:36:43.760
do polygraph tests.
1972
01:36:43.760 --> 01:36:46.359
We don't allow them to do them. And Daniel didn't
1973
01:36:46.359 --> 01:36:46.840
know about this.
1974
01:36:46.920 --> 01:36:49.119
He wasn't told about it till later when we got
1975
01:36:49.119 --> 01:36:52.159
the case, when he hired private council because FOP stopped
1976
01:36:52.199 --> 01:36:56.199
representing him. When he got private counsel, we offered him
1977
01:36:56.279 --> 01:36:59.600
up for a light detector and said, you know, we'll
1978
01:36:59.600 --> 01:37:02.840
give him light detector under the conditions that any of
1979
01:37:02.880 --> 01:37:05.119
the accusers that he passes, whether it's one of them
1980
01:37:05.199 --> 01:37:07.720
or all of them, you drop the charges associated with
1981
01:37:07.800 --> 01:37:10.479
that accuser. And the prosecutor would not agree to that.
1982
01:37:10.560 --> 01:37:12.520
And I know why the prosecutor wouldn't agree to it's
1983
01:37:12.560 --> 01:37:16.199
Galen Gigger. He knows that mister Adams, the attorney, he's
1984
01:37:16.239 --> 01:37:18.279
not going to offer somebody up for a light detector
1985
01:37:18.279 --> 01:37:20.119
if he thinks that they're going to fail. And he
1986
01:37:20.159 --> 01:37:22.000
didn't want to get into an agreement with this high
1987
01:37:22.000 --> 01:37:24.359
profile case all of a sudden falls apart in front
1988
01:37:24.399 --> 01:37:27.000
of him. Is because the defendant passes a light detector.
1989
01:37:27.239 --> 01:37:29.760
And people can say whatever they want about light detectors,
1990
01:37:29.800 --> 01:37:32.840
but they're used routinely in law enforcement. Daniel had to
1991
01:37:32.880 --> 01:37:35.880
take one before he got on the force. Our county
1992
01:37:35.960 --> 01:37:38.800
routinely uses light detectors to decide whether or not they're
1993
01:37:38.800 --> 01:37:42.239
going to file charges against somebody regardless of their admissibility
1994
01:37:42.279 --> 01:37:44.920
in a courtroom. And when we got ready for trial
1995
01:37:44.920 --> 01:37:47.000
and we offered Daniel up for a light detector and
1996
01:37:47.039 --> 01:37:49.760
they said no, it's because they feared the results of
1997
01:37:49.800 --> 01:37:50.640
that light detector.
1998
01:37:50.880 --> 01:37:53.319
We did not, but none of the victims either took
1999
01:37:53.319 --> 01:37:53.920
a line detecting.
2000
01:37:54.399 --> 01:37:57.000
No, they would know there'd be no expectation for a
2001
01:37:57.119 --> 01:38:01.119
sexual assault victim or accuser to take a light detector test,
2002
01:38:01.119 --> 01:38:02.640
so that was never even offered to them.
2003
01:38:02.720 --> 01:38:04.920
Okay, we got fifteen minutes. I know you want to
2004
01:38:04.960 --> 01:38:06.840
sum it up as good as you can in fifteen minutes.
2005
01:38:07.000 --> 01:38:09.760
The last get a couple of key things people need
2006
01:38:09.760 --> 01:38:12.239
to understand. One is accuser Sherry Ellis. And the whole
2007
01:38:12.239 --> 01:38:14.640
reason I point her out is because Daniel received the
2008
01:38:14.680 --> 01:38:17.399
most number of years from her allegations alone. He got
2009
01:38:17.399 --> 01:38:20.079
sixty two years. That in itself is a life sentence.
2010
01:38:20.239 --> 01:38:23.239
He got sixty two years. What's key to note about
2011
01:38:23.239 --> 01:38:26.600
her is she told the police very specifically, and I'm
2012
01:38:26.640 --> 01:38:29.159
getting ready to play the audio clip. She told police
2013
01:38:29.279 --> 01:38:34.760
that her rapist was a short black man, short black man,
2014
01:38:34.840 --> 01:38:38.640
Daniel is six foot two, pale, white in complexion, and
2015
01:38:38.760 --> 01:38:41.920
she swears at her attacker is a short blackmail. Also,
2016
01:38:41.960 --> 01:38:44.359
for anyone who's ever attended a trial, there's always this
2017
01:38:44.520 --> 01:38:47.000
procedural thing where they say, can you pick out the
2018
01:38:47.640 --> 01:38:50.399
defendant the person who committed the crime against you? And
2019
01:38:50.439 --> 01:38:52.640
it's a no brainer. It's it's the guy in handcuffs,
2020
01:38:52.640 --> 01:38:54.680
sweating his ass off, sitting over there in the corner.
2021
01:38:54.800 --> 01:38:56.840
She looks around the court room and says, no, I
2022
01:38:56.920 --> 01:38:59.720
cannot still sixty two years. I want you to hear
2023
01:38:59.720 --> 01:39:02.399
this real quick in case anyone that doubts me. This
2024
01:39:02.479 --> 01:39:05.000
is this is her. She's in an interrogation room and
2025
01:39:05.039 --> 01:39:07.079
she's talking to Detective Kim Davis.
2026
01:39:08.239 --> 01:39:11.560
Let me ask you this. Do you give me tell
2027
01:39:11.600 --> 01:39:18.680
me your descriptions him?
2028
01:39:19.960 --> 01:39:21.239
How tall? Could you tell us?
2029
01:39:24.279 --> 01:39:24.920
How old are you?
2030
01:39:28.880 --> 01:39:29.800
How tall are you?
2031
01:39:29.880 --> 01:39:30.479
Final eleven?
2032
01:39:40.159 --> 01:39:42.920
There you go. It's a black male. She is five eleven,
2033
01:39:42.960 --> 01:39:45.079
and he's shorter than her. It's a short black male.
2034
01:39:45.520 --> 01:39:49.800
Daniel's several inches taller than her and pale and complexion.
2035
01:39:50.039 --> 01:39:52.560
And he gets a life sentence the most number of
2036
01:39:52.600 --> 01:39:55.640
years based on her claim alone. And here's the other
2037
01:39:55.680 --> 01:39:58.000
thing about it. Everyone wants to talk about the GPS
2038
01:39:58.119 --> 01:40:00.880
or what's actually referred to as a VA well, and
2039
01:40:00.960 --> 01:40:04.640
that's the GPS within the patrol car. She was stopped
2040
01:40:04.640 --> 01:40:07.439
while she was walking on the street, and she admits
2041
01:40:07.479 --> 01:40:09.720
that she had an eye to eye, face to face
2042
01:40:10.600 --> 01:40:14.319
conversation with Daniel. Daniel ran her like he ran so
2043
01:40:14.359 --> 01:40:17.199
many other women, and she had warrants, but they're misdemeanor warrants.
2044
01:40:17.239 --> 01:40:19.680
They weren't for new crimes. They were for not paying
2045
01:40:19.840 --> 01:40:22.239
your ticket. You get arrested, you're supposed to pay a
2046
01:40:22.319 --> 01:40:24.079
jail fee, and you got to pay a ticket and
2047
01:40:24.119 --> 01:40:27.119
some court costs. And virtually nobody on the north east
2048
01:40:27.119 --> 01:40:29.079
side of town does those sorts of things. So they
2049
01:40:29.119 --> 01:40:31.800
admitted everyone's got these warrants that are walking around out there.
2050
01:40:32.199 --> 01:40:35.640
But Daniel uses that an opportunity of can you tell me,
2051
01:40:35.680 --> 01:40:37.039
you know, I see you got these warrants, but it's
2052
01:40:37.039 --> 01:40:39.439
no big deal. We can let them go. What's the
2053
01:40:39.479 --> 01:40:41.840
drug activity? Who are the big players? Where the drug
2054
01:40:41.840 --> 01:40:44.239
houses on this part of town? She says, like so
2055
01:40:44.279 --> 01:40:46.640
many other people, I can't be seen out here talking
2056
01:40:46.680 --> 01:40:48.680
to you about stuff. I will be branded a snitch.
2057
01:40:48.760 --> 01:40:52.239
Bad things happen to snitch snitches Daniel says, fine, get
2058
01:40:52.239 --> 01:40:54.359
in the car, So she gets in the car. They
2059
01:40:54.399 --> 01:40:57.600
start driving. She starts telling him things, but Daniel's like,
2060
01:40:57.600 --> 01:40:59.479
it's all the drug house, the drug houses we all
2061
01:40:59.520 --> 01:41:01.560
know about it, to drug houses that were closed down
2062
01:41:01.600 --> 01:41:04.920
three or four months ago. This information's no good. He
2063
01:41:05.000 --> 01:41:08.359
drives past, as they call it, the abandoned school yard,
2064
01:41:08.359 --> 01:41:10.119
but it's actually where school used to be, and it's
2065
01:41:10.119 --> 01:41:12.960
now public park with actually some pretty nice equipment on it.
2066
01:41:13.039 --> 01:41:15.640
He lets her out and he goes on. She claims
2067
01:41:15.640 --> 01:41:18.159
that no, they had the conversation. He puts her in
2068
01:41:18.199 --> 01:41:21.000
the car. He drives her to the abandoned school. He
2069
01:41:21.079 --> 01:41:23.560
parks his car, he gets her out of the car,
2070
01:41:23.880 --> 01:41:26.880
he bends her over, he sexually assaults her. Then he
2071
01:41:26.920 --> 01:41:30.640
tells her she can go. The problem is the GPS
2072
01:41:30.760 --> 01:41:34.239
or the AVL in his car does not match that story.
2073
01:41:34.439 --> 01:41:37.199
It shows him pulling up and stopping. He radios her in.
2074
01:41:37.279 --> 01:41:38.840
He's not trying to hide it. It's part of the
2075
01:41:38.920 --> 01:41:40.279
radio traffic. He calls her in.
2076
01:41:40.520 --> 01:41:42.600
That's how you find out that she's got some warrants.
2077
01:41:42.800 --> 01:41:45.840
Then it shows him driving through the park area and
2078
01:41:45.880 --> 01:41:49.199
proceeding on. He never stops his car at no time
2079
01:41:49.239 --> 01:41:52.760
does the GPS give a zero speed reading, So there
2080
01:41:52.800 --> 01:41:55.239
was at no time that he stopped his car and
2081
01:41:55.359 --> 01:41:58.880
bent her over and sexually assaulted her. But none of
2082
01:41:58.880 --> 01:41:59.479
that seemed to Matt.
2083
01:41:59.479 --> 01:42:01.079
It didn't seem to matter with the jury that he's
2084
01:42:01.119 --> 01:42:03.560
not short, he's not black, and the GPS doesn't match.
2085
01:42:03.760 --> 01:42:05.800
They gave him sixty two years anyway.
2086
01:42:06.640 --> 01:42:09.199
But there was a second victim who mentioned that same park, right.
2087
01:42:10.159 --> 01:42:11.439
He was an additional.
2088
01:42:11.119 --> 01:42:13.680
Victory, Kayla Lyles, which was the third of that last
2089
01:42:13.800 --> 01:42:15.960
and he was found not guilty of that assault.
2090
01:42:16.119 --> 01:42:18.359
Really, yep, And it was just what's.
2091
01:42:18.199 --> 01:42:21.079
Weird, And I'll admit this is a bizarre This is
2092
01:42:21.119 --> 01:42:24.199
what tells me that I don't care what the jury says.
2093
01:42:24.520 --> 01:42:27.479
They didn't take this case seriously. They were afraid about
2094
01:42:27.479 --> 01:42:29.640
the chanting. They were afraid of the fact that we
2095
01:42:29.760 --> 01:42:33.319
literally had black panthers showing up in full military uniform
2096
01:42:33.560 --> 01:42:36.319
sitting in the audience. They openly talked about what's going
2097
01:42:36.359 --> 01:42:38.159
to happen if we acquit this guy, They're going to
2098
01:42:38.199 --> 01:42:41.880
burn the city down. They were literally chanting outside the window,
2099
01:42:42.039 --> 01:42:45.399
giving life, give him life. During the trial, this is
2100
01:42:45.439 --> 01:42:50.119
going on, and one of the legal observers commented that
2101
01:42:50.199 --> 01:42:52.720
even when the judge told the jury, oh, disregard those
2102
01:42:52.920 --> 01:42:55.239
the chanting going out on outside the window, it was
2103
01:42:55.279 --> 01:42:57.479
like throwing a skunk into the room and telling people
2104
01:42:57.520 --> 01:43:00.600
not to smell it. All of this is going on,
2105
01:43:01.079 --> 01:43:04.359
and the jury was actually absolutely petrified what was going
2106
01:43:04.439 --> 01:43:06.520
to happen if they found him guilty. So they literally,
2107
01:43:06.600 --> 01:43:08.960
as the lead prosecutor even said.
2108
01:43:08.960 --> 01:43:10.199
They split the baby.
2109
01:43:10.319 --> 01:43:12.920
They took the thirty six counts, They divided him in half.
2110
01:43:13.079 --> 01:43:16.399
Wherever they falls, wherever they fall. In the Kayla Lyles case,
2111
01:43:16.399 --> 01:43:18.720
and I'll get into this on my podcast in depth,
2112
01:43:18.760 --> 01:43:21.239
but in that case, it was a frustrating one because
2113
01:43:21.239 --> 01:43:23.119
there just wasn't much evidence there at all. It was
2114
01:43:23.199 --> 01:43:25.840
just this stop that happened. She claims she was taken
2115
01:43:25.840 --> 01:43:27.880
to this abandoned school yard and she was rape. Well,
2116
01:43:27.920 --> 01:43:30.880
the GPS actually shows that he was in that abandoned
2117
01:43:30.880 --> 01:43:33.239
school yard and that his vehicle actually did come to
2118
01:43:33.279 --> 01:43:36.439
a zero speed and actually did stop. But the jury
2119
01:43:36.479 --> 01:43:40.039
said not guilty. There wasn't anything that proved or disproved it.
2120
01:43:40.159 --> 01:43:42.960
Not guilty. You got a woman saying all these terrible
2121
01:43:43.000 --> 01:43:46.640
things happened to her, but he's a short black man
2122
01:43:46.800 --> 01:43:48.680
and we stopped here. But the GPS says that you
2123
01:43:48.720 --> 01:43:50.640
really didn't stop there. But he's guilty of that one,
2124
01:43:50.680 --> 01:43:52.720
and we're going to give him life. To me, what
2125
01:43:52.760 --> 01:43:55.760
that proved that the jury did not take their obligation
2126
01:43:56.239 --> 01:43:57.600
seriously in that court room.
2127
01:43:59.159 --> 01:44:05.000
You know, I watched Michelle Malcoln. Yes, right, and now
2128
01:44:05.119 --> 01:44:07.039
she makes a big point of that Black Lives Matter
2129
01:44:07.119 --> 01:44:09.039
was outside put it looked like twenty five people out
2130
01:44:09.039 --> 01:44:09.880
there protesting that.
2131
01:44:10.239 --> 01:44:13.680
No, there were every day. It was different, different times
2132
01:44:13.720 --> 01:44:15.800
of the day, it was different. There was a lot
2133
01:44:15.840 --> 01:44:18.039
of people out the courtroom. We were in a pretty
2134
01:44:18.079 --> 01:44:21.439
decent sized courtroom. Was they were turned people away, people
2135
01:44:21.439 --> 01:44:23.319
were packed out. If you saw any of the photos,
2136
01:44:23.319 --> 01:44:26.279
people were pushing and shoving them their way in. People
2137
01:44:26.279 --> 01:44:29.680
were caught taking photos of the jurors during the trial.
2138
01:44:30.399 --> 01:44:32.680
You only take pictures of jurors for one reason. You
2139
01:44:32.720 --> 01:44:34.319
take a picture of a juror because you're trying to
2140
01:44:34.359 --> 01:44:36.520
intimidate them. You're trying to let them know if you
2141
01:44:36.520 --> 01:44:39.319
don't come back with a verdict that we want, we
2142
01:44:39.359 --> 01:44:40.720
will find out who you are.
2143
01:44:42.119 --> 01:44:45.439
Now. Michelle Malkin, she has a background of anti immigration.
2144
01:44:45.640 --> 01:44:48.680
She's very much against Black Lives Matter. Now, do you
2145
01:44:48.760 --> 01:44:50.159
have an opinion on that kind of thing or do
2146
01:44:50.159 --> 01:44:52.439
you have a bias toward Black Lives Matter?
2147
01:44:52.960 --> 01:44:55.760
Well, no, And it isn't even something that if someone said,
2148
01:44:55.800 --> 01:44:58.399
you know, tried to detail Black Lives Matter in the movement,
2149
01:44:58.840 --> 01:45:01.279
I probably couldn't give you very accurate one because it's
2150
01:45:01.319 --> 01:45:04.840
just it isn't anything I've ever been involved in. I
2151
01:45:04.880 --> 01:45:07.319
certainly can say this. People who know me locally know
2152
01:45:07.680 --> 01:45:10.039
I am not a cheerleader of police. As a matter
2153
01:45:10.079 --> 01:45:12.319
of fact, the very first thing Daniel said to me
2154
01:45:12.359 --> 01:45:14.479
when I walked in the room and introduced myself is
2155
01:45:14.520 --> 01:45:16.600
he looked up any kind of smirked, kind of a
2156
01:45:16.600 --> 01:45:18.800
cocky guy look up and smirked and said, I know
2157
01:45:18.840 --> 01:45:22.159
who you are. They taught us about you at the academy.
2158
01:45:22.960 --> 01:45:25.199
I'm someone that the police does not look at as
2159
01:45:25.199 --> 01:45:28.119
a friend. So to say that Daniel and I were
2160
01:45:28.239 --> 01:45:32.479
very unlikely allies, that's an understatement. I'm not someone who
2161
01:45:32.520 --> 01:45:36.279
cheerleads the police. I have filed several grievances with the police.
2162
01:45:36.520 --> 01:45:39.119
Every single time those grievances are found in my favor,
2163
01:45:39.199 --> 01:45:41.800
unless I don't have it recorded, which is the magic
2164
01:45:41.840 --> 01:45:44.279
thing if it's on tape and it's indisputable, it's in
2165
01:45:44.319 --> 01:45:46.119
your favor. If it's not on tape, it's never going
2166
01:45:46.159 --> 01:45:49.560
to be in your favor. So yes, I certainly think
2167
01:45:49.600 --> 01:45:53.159
that there are parts of the Black Lives Matter movement
2168
01:45:53.199 --> 01:45:56.439
about violence against minorities and all I think are extremely valid.
2169
01:45:56.760 --> 01:45:58.880
I think when you're showing up to a courtroom wearing
2170
01:45:58.960 --> 01:46:02.479
military uniform, you're outside the window yelling give him life
2171
01:46:02.520 --> 01:46:05.960
instead of letting the judicial process play out that I
2172
01:46:05.960 --> 01:46:09.720
don't care whose lives you say that matter. You're disrespecting
2173
01:46:09.760 --> 01:46:12.720
the process and you're not allowing somebody a fair shot
2174
01:46:12.760 --> 01:46:13.399
at justice.
2175
01:46:14.319 --> 01:46:16.720
What's the hope of getting a new trial, and what
2176
01:46:16.760 --> 01:46:18.840
would you base it on. Were there any errors or
2177
01:46:18.880 --> 01:46:19.640
that you get an appeal?
2178
01:46:20.279 --> 01:46:22.760
Well, you know, I think there were some pretty big errors.
2179
01:46:22.960 --> 01:46:25.680
I think one of the biggest errors was in the DA.
2180
01:46:25.880 --> 01:46:28.000
Here's what you have to look at. You could eliminate
2181
01:46:28.159 --> 01:46:30.840
four or five or two or three whatever of the
2182
01:46:30.840 --> 01:46:33.319
accusers he was found guilty of, and he would still
2183
01:46:33.359 --> 01:46:35.199
have enough years that it makes it a life sentence.
2184
01:46:35.600 --> 01:46:37.720
What you have to appeal on, you have to appeal
2185
01:46:37.760 --> 01:46:40.960
on things that affected each and every one of the accusers,
2186
01:46:40.960 --> 01:46:42.680
and I think the DNA is that and I think
2187
01:46:42.720 --> 01:46:45.159
that that's played out because the jurors have come forward
2188
01:46:45.159 --> 01:46:48.640
and say it was a DNA testimony that most convinced
2189
01:46:48.680 --> 01:46:51.479
them that Daniel must have done something. So I think
2190
01:46:51.520 --> 01:46:53.960
where the appeal stands the best chance is where they
2191
01:46:53.960 --> 01:46:57.159
can show that one Elaine Taylor is a direct relative
2192
01:46:57.239 --> 01:47:00.600
of one of the investigators, so therefore she was exposed
2193
01:47:00.600 --> 01:47:03.640
to an awful lot of conversations that she wouldn't have
2194
01:47:03.720 --> 01:47:07.079
otherwise known. I think that she falsely and testified outside
2195
01:47:07.119 --> 01:47:08.239
the scope of her experience.
2196
01:47:08.720 --> 01:47:10.920
When all after Daniel was convicted.
2197
01:47:10.479 --> 01:47:13.800
And they immediately filed an appeal based on her DNA testimony,
2198
01:47:14.199 --> 01:47:20.479
she immediately retired, literally retired within days of Daniel being sentenced,
2199
01:47:20.520 --> 01:47:22.199
because the appeal had to be filed in so many
2200
01:47:22.279 --> 01:47:24.800
days after his sentence. And then they had If you
2201
01:47:24.840 --> 01:47:26.680
google it, there's a lot of news stories on it.
2202
01:47:26.720 --> 01:47:31.399
They start having closed door secret meetings, specifically about Elaine Taylor,
2203
01:47:31.439 --> 01:47:34.359
the DNA expert. Daniel and his lawyer were not allowed
2204
01:47:34.399 --> 01:47:36.840
to attend the Court of Criminal Appeals. Just within the
2205
01:47:36.920 --> 01:47:39.640
last week came out and said that was an error
2206
01:47:39.680 --> 01:47:42.199
that his attorneys should have been allowed to attend these
2207
01:47:42.319 --> 01:47:46.520
very secretive hearings, and it's something that the appeals court
2208
01:47:46.560 --> 01:47:49.199
is looking at. But I think if he's granted an appeal,
2209
01:47:49.199 --> 01:47:50.840
I think what will happen. He will be a new trial,
2210
01:47:51.159 --> 01:47:53.199
and won't They won't simply just throw out all the
2211
01:47:53.279 --> 01:47:56.399
charges and releasing. What I hope is what he'll get
2212
01:47:56.520 --> 01:47:58.560
is a new trial will be based on the fact
2213
01:47:58.560 --> 01:48:01.479
that there was false testimony with the DNA, and that
2214
01:48:01.520 --> 01:48:04.880
false testimony ultimately affected every single count.
2215
01:48:06.800 --> 01:48:09.880
I gotta tell you, Brian, I'm really impressed with your
2216
01:48:10.760 --> 01:48:12.640
the way you present this case. You know, your advocate
2217
01:48:12.680 --> 01:48:14.600
for your client, and I got a lot of respect
2218
01:48:14.720 --> 01:48:16.600
I can. I can tell you know you're good at
2219
01:48:16.600 --> 01:48:19.680
your work, and you obviously you've done one hundred million
2220
01:48:19.680 --> 01:48:22.279
times more you know, looking into this than I have.
2221
01:48:22.439 --> 01:48:24.720
You know, I have to I have to give that
2222
01:48:24.760 --> 01:48:26.079
a lot of weight. You know, you spend a lot
2223
01:48:26.079 --> 01:48:28.000
of time working on this and you've come to this conclusion.
2224
01:48:28.399 --> 01:48:30.920
It's just from the these things that I have a
2225
01:48:30.920 --> 01:48:32.880
lot of problems with these other issues, especially with the
2226
01:48:32.960 --> 01:48:35.359
seventeen year old girl. Is contact with the seventeen year old.
2227
01:48:36.439 --> 01:48:41.640
But again, I guess we could come to a conclusion
2228
01:48:41.680 --> 01:48:44.359
he could be factually found not guilty if you could
2229
01:48:44.359 --> 01:48:48.760
throw out the DNA. I don't know.
2230
01:48:49.880 --> 01:48:52.199
In my mind, the most I'm asking for for people.
2231
01:48:52.439 --> 01:48:56.159
People don't have the intimate knowledge the discovery that I do.
2232
01:48:56.199 --> 01:48:58.640
So the most I'm asking for people is the expectation
2233
01:48:58.840 --> 01:49:01.760
of our judicial system. And before we lock somebody up
2234
01:49:01.760 --> 01:49:04.000
in prison for life, do we at least have an
2235
01:49:04.039 --> 01:49:09.239
expectation that it's based on direct evidence and or a
2236
01:49:09.239 --> 01:49:12.960
third party, independent witness testimony, or are we willing to
2237
01:49:13.000 --> 01:49:15.279
give to the end of the whims of groups like
2238
01:49:15.279 --> 01:49:17.680
a Black Lives Matter or the social climate at the time.
2239
01:49:17.880 --> 01:49:20.399
And are we now telling prosecutors as long as you
2240
01:49:20.600 --> 01:49:24.600
pile on accusers, you get a conviction, even if there
2241
01:49:24.720 --> 01:49:27.520
is no evidence, even if there are not witnesses. If
2242
01:49:27.520 --> 01:49:30.239
you can pile on, you will win, and people will
2243
01:49:30.239 --> 01:49:31.720
be sent to prison for the rest.
2244
01:49:31.479 --> 01:49:32.000
Of their life.
2245
01:49:32.920 --> 01:49:35.399
Right But they prosecutors normally wouldn't been able to pile
2246
01:49:35.439 --> 01:49:38.399
on unless they had victims won't come forward, you know.
2247
01:49:39.000 --> 01:49:41.079
But they had to knock on doors. And here's the problem.
2248
01:49:41.119 --> 01:49:42.800
And this has played out and I know we don't
2249
01:49:42.840 --> 01:49:45.279
have time for it, but tape after tape after tape.
2250
01:49:45.399 --> 01:49:48.079
They didn't go to these people and say, come, we'd
2251
01:49:48.119 --> 01:49:50.920
like to talk to you. Was there anything inappropriate or
2252
01:49:50.920 --> 01:49:53.359
anything that happened during a police stop in the last
2253
01:49:53.439 --> 01:49:55.439
year or so that you would like to let us
2254
01:49:55.479 --> 01:49:55.880
know about.
2255
01:49:55.920 --> 01:49:56.560
They didn't do that.
2256
01:49:56.600 --> 01:49:59.520
They literally knocked on doors and said, we believe that
2257
01:49:59.600 --> 01:50:02.439
you are victim of a sexual assault by an Oklahoma
2258
01:50:02.479 --> 01:50:03.520
City police officer.
2259
01:50:03.840 --> 01:50:04.720
Tell us about it.
2260
01:50:04.840 --> 01:50:07.039
And if that person didn't answer the door, they told
2261
01:50:07.039 --> 01:50:09.920
their relatives about it, and the relatives over and over again.
2262
01:50:09.960 --> 01:50:10.960
Through testimony, it was.
2263
01:50:10.920 --> 01:50:14.000
Revealed they admitted that they had seen the reports on
2264
01:50:14.039 --> 01:50:17.600
the news. They googled the information, and they contacted people
2265
01:50:17.640 --> 01:50:20.800
and let them know. These accusers did not come forward
2266
01:50:20.840 --> 01:50:23.119
on their own. Their doors had to be knocked on.
2267
01:50:23.239 --> 01:50:25.680
They had to been told that not only do we
2268
01:50:25.720 --> 01:50:27.720
think that you're a victim, but you we want you
2269
01:50:27.800 --> 01:50:30.760
to tell us about it, and then they magically became victims.
2270
01:50:30.800 --> 01:50:33.159
One of the one of the ones that really stuck
2271
01:50:33.159 --> 01:50:36.520
out the most was of Carla Rains. Seven times during
2272
01:50:36.560 --> 01:50:39.640
her recorded interview said I don't know what you're talking about.
2273
01:50:39.760 --> 01:50:42.600
I'm not the victim of anything. How did you even
2274
01:50:42.640 --> 01:50:45.640
get my name? I don't understand none of that was
2275
01:50:45.720 --> 01:50:48.720
listed in Rocky Gregory's report. He didn't list a single
2276
01:50:48.800 --> 01:50:50.840
time that she said no. He kept on her and
2277
01:50:50.920 --> 01:50:53.159
kept saying, this is a really bad dude. We've got
2278
01:50:53.159 --> 01:50:55.640
to get him off the streets. Surely there's something you
2279
01:50:55.680 --> 01:50:59.600
remember that he did, like maybe exposed in yourself, maybe whatever.
2280
01:50:59.720 --> 01:51:02.079
And then she literally says, oh, wait, I get it.
2281
01:51:02.479 --> 01:51:04.920
I get where you're coming from. I get it now. Yeah,
2282
01:51:04.960 --> 01:51:08.439
there was this one time. That's not how you conduct
2283
01:51:08.439 --> 01:51:09.199
an investigation.
2284
01:51:10.439 --> 01:51:12.399
Brian Bates. I got to take my hat off to you, man,
2285
01:51:12.439 --> 01:51:15.680
Brian Bates, Bates investigates dot com. If you're in trouble
2286
01:51:15.720 --> 01:51:19.479
down there in Oklahoma, run to Brian Bates came in
2287
01:51:19.680 --> 01:51:24.279
Bates Investigates dot com, a very passionate advocate for his client.
2288
01:51:24.319 --> 01:51:25.960
I got to take my hat off to that man.
2289
01:51:26.119 --> 01:51:29.399
Holtzclaw Trial dot Com is the website that covers is
2290
01:51:29.439 --> 01:51:32.239
Brian holtz Claw case. There's going to be a podcast
2291
01:51:32.279 --> 01:51:35.600
about this and I'm eagerly awaiting it. Brian. Anytime, if
2292
01:51:35.640 --> 01:51:37.439
anything new comes up in this case, you want to
2293
01:51:37.439 --> 01:51:38.760
come back on the air, just call me up, I
2294
01:51:38.800 --> 01:51:41.000
put your repick on, we'll book it. Because you're very
2295
01:51:41.000 --> 01:51:43.760
flexible with your schedule too, so we'll do it right away. Man,
2296
01:51:43.760 --> 01:51:45.439
I really appreciate this. You're a great guest.
2297
01:51:46.039 --> 01:51:47.840
Hey, I appreciate it too. I appreciate the.
2298
01:51:47.800 --> 01:51:50.600
Time, and all I'm asking for your audience is take
2299
01:51:50.680 --> 01:51:53.560
the time to educate yourself and don't leave it to
2300
01:51:53.600 --> 01:51:57.119
the media and to the headlines. Do the investigative work yourself.
2301
01:51:57.239 --> 01:51:58.600
It's all going to be there, it's all going to
2302
01:51:58.640 --> 01:52:00.479
be online. You'll be able to read it, every word
2303
01:52:00.479 --> 01:52:00.640
of it.
2304
01:52:00.880 --> 01:52:02.439
I gotta agree with that too. Being involved in a
2305
01:52:02.479 --> 01:52:04.640
lot of high profile cases, what you see on TV
2306
01:52:04.760 --> 01:52:07.199
is not what's really going on day to day in
2307
01:52:07.239 --> 01:52:10.840
these cases. They have their own version of events. But
2308
01:52:10.880 --> 01:52:12.319
thank you, Brian Bates, thank you so much.
2309
01:52:12.640 --> 01:52:13.399
Ah, thank you.
2310
01:52:13.479 --> 01:52:16.279
Can I I really like Brian Bates. I like this guy.
2311
01:52:16.680 --> 01:52:20.000
But again, still, I'll be doing a little wrap up
2312
01:52:20.039 --> 01:52:22.840
on this. I have a little thirty minute wrap up.
2313
01:52:23.399 --> 01:52:25.239
I got Vic here today. She's going on vacation for
2314
01:52:25.239 --> 01:52:26.560
two weeks. I'm gonna we're gonna go out for a
2315
01:52:26.560 --> 01:52:28.159
little Whi'm gonna come back and do the wrap up
2316
01:52:28.680 --> 01:52:30.760
about thirty minutes on this. I could talk about this
2317
01:52:30.800 --> 01:52:33.239
for hours, though, Man, I got a lot of opinions
2318
01:52:33.239 --> 01:52:35.439
on this, but we'll be right back after these messages.
2319
01:52:35.479 --> 01:52:36.520
I'll be a little wrap up.
2320
01:52:37.600 --> 01:52:40.720
We all have questions, did he do it? Or did
2321
01:52:40.760 --> 01:52:41.000
he not?
2322
01:52:41.840 --> 01:52:45.239
We all have opinions, but do we really know the truth?
2323
01:52:46.279 --> 01:52:49.039
New evidence will now be presented and the ultimate answers
2324
01:52:49.079 --> 01:52:54.920
will be revealed in the explosive documentary Serpents Rising, inspired
2325
01:52:54.960 --> 01:52:58.039
by the best seller Double Cross for Blood, an independent
2326
01:52:58.079 --> 01:53:02.279
investigation of the trial of this century, the live, the myths,
2327
01:53:02.319 --> 01:53:03.760
and the concealed evidence.
2328
01:53:04.560 --> 01:53:07.000
Don't miss Spence Rising.
2329
01:53:07.640 --> 01:53:12.800
This excellent documentary film is available at Serpents Rising at
2330
01:53:12.880 --> 01:53:16.520
Vimeo Videos on Demand. Watch it for one dollar and
2331
01:53:16.640 --> 01:53:20.119
ninety nine cents. Okay, thank you so much. Brian Bates
2332
01:53:20.880 --> 01:53:24.079
Bates Investigates dot Com. Trust me, if you're in trouble
2333
01:53:24.119 --> 01:53:27.600
over there in Oklahoma City or that Oklahoma area, contact
2334
01:53:27.640 --> 01:53:30.720
Brian Bates even before you contact an attorney, and he'll
2335
01:53:30.720 --> 01:53:33.079
help you get an attorney. Trust me in this this
2336
01:53:33.199 --> 01:53:35.720
kuy knows what he's doing. He's very, very passionate advocate
2337
01:53:35.720 --> 01:53:37.920
for his clients. This guy's no joke. I do a
2338
01:53:37.960 --> 01:53:41.399
lot of investigators out there, all right. And then even
2339
01:53:41.439 --> 01:53:43.640
though the run across the guy even know the name
2340
01:53:43.640 --> 01:53:49.520
of this client. The ninety percents out. Okay, I'm gonna
2341
01:53:49.520 --> 01:53:51.119
have a lot to say about this. I have my
2342
01:53:51.159 --> 01:53:53.319
own opinions on this, but then again, I haven't started
2343
01:53:53.359 --> 01:53:55.199
this case the way Brian has. But you know, just
2344
01:53:55.239 --> 01:53:58.399
some stuff that just jumps right at me. Man, I'm
2345
01:53:58.399 --> 01:54:01.119
not uncomfortable with having this man behind me. Let's put
2346
01:54:01.119 --> 01:54:03.520
it that way from the information I have so far,
2347
01:54:03.920 --> 01:54:06.359
and I'll just comment on that, but again, tipping my
2348
01:54:06.359 --> 01:54:09.319
hat to Brian Bates is doing great work. My commentary
2349
01:54:09.479 --> 01:54:11.319
will be about thirty minutes. It'll be in the members
2350
01:54:11.399 --> 01:54:14.560
section at Operamanreport dot com. Now, what's in the member section.
2351
01:54:15.000 --> 01:54:16.920
We have about one hundred and twenty five one hundred
2352
01:54:16.920 --> 01:54:19.520
and thirty exclusive shows in there that you won't hear
2353
01:54:20.840 --> 01:54:22.720
live on the radio. You won't hear it on the
2354
01:54:22.760 --> 01:54:25.399
internet stations. It's not on YouTube, it's not on a preaker,
2355
01:54:25.720 --> 01:54:31.039
it's unavailable. But for the membership section. The member the
2356
01:54:31.119 --> 01:54:35.640
membership section is very inexpensive. Okay, it's only six bucks
2357
01:54:35.680 --> 01:54:37.840
a month, So you can't go wrong with this man
2358
01:54:38.039 --> 01:54:40.119
and help. It's helped support the show, helps keep the
2359
01:54:40.159 --> 01:54:43.399
show on the air. Besides our great sponsors like cartking
2360
01:54:43.520 --> 01:54:46.239
dot com. This is what keeps the show on the air,
2361
01:54:46.319 --> 01:54:48.279
and this is what helps us get on more stations
2362
01:54:48.319 --> 01:54:50.600
and get bigger guests and stuff like that. So if
2363
01:54:50.640 --> 01:54:52.560
you want to support the show, if become a member,
2364
01:54:52.600 --> 01:54:54.319
if you want to contact me directly, I'm going to
2365
01:54:54.399 --> 01:54:56.520
give you a discount on the membership. Don't give you
2366
01:54:56.600 --> 01:54:59.880
thirteen months for only sixty bucks. So as you can see,
2367
01:55:00.039 --> 01:55:01.960
get in like three months free. It's a great, great, great,
2368
01:55:02.000 --> 01:55:04.199
great deal. Three or four months free. It works at
2369
01:55:04.239 --> 01:55:07.000
a great deal. Be contact me directly at opperaman Report
2370
01:55:07.119 --> 01:55:10.239
at gmail dot com. You hear all my commentaries on
2371
01:55:10.319 --> 01:55:12.680
the show, which you just started doing. I have court
2372
01:55:12.720 --> 01:55:15.000
docs in there, we have photographs in there, I have
2373
01:55:15.079 --> 01:55:18.159
some videos in there, all kinds of great content at
2374
01:55:18.159 --> 01:55:22.520
Operamanreport dot com. Contact me directly at opperman Report at
2375
01:55:22.560 --> 01:55:25.680
gmail dot com for a big discount and just say, hey, Ed,
2376
01:55:25.720 --> 01:55:28.000
I want that big discount, and I'll email it back
2377
01:55:28.079 --> 01:55:31.000
and I'll say, hey man, you got it. Okay, And
2378
01:55:31.039 --> 01:55:32.680
that's pretty much how it goes. Try and hit the
2379
01:55:32.720 --> 01:55:35.960
conversations down to a middle. Okay. I appreciate what he
2380
01:55:36.000 --> 01:55:38.239
was wanting to become a member. But come on, hey
2381
01:55:38.439 --> 01:55:41.960
can I Yeah, I get like two hundred emails a day. Guys,
2382
01:55:42.000 --> 01:55:46.199
you have no idea contact. We got others well bought
2383
01:55:46.239 --> 01:55:48.439
to these shows and hey, Ed, can you do me
2384
01:55:48.479 --> 01:55:52.359
a favorite? Yeah, to your favor, give me a break man,
2385
01:55:53.000 --> 01:55:56.840
So support the member section there that way the videos
2386
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court documents. I got another twenty four page a letter
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Jeffrey Epstein claims that he created the Clinton Foundation. You
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know you don't find it anywhere else, uh McMartin preschool,
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Tim Tait, who was the director and producer, was high
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conspiracy of silence, great stuff, Steve Bannon's porn and meth
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house stuff you're not gonna find anywhere else. Exclusive content.
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M h m.
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Remember all these shows on Awake are brought to you
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by Email revealer dot com. You can go to email
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revealer dot com and get a copy of my book
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How to Become a Successful Private Investigator. You also do
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all the kind of different services for you online dating
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service investigations called an online infidelity investigation, and that's where
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you give us your husband or your boyfriend, your girlfriend's
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email address, and we trace it back to their online
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dating websites and we return a list of all the
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dating sites that email is registered to. We can expand
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our night investigation and trace it back to porn sites,
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escorts service sites, swinger sites, gambling websites, and even prescription
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drug websites, and all kinds of digital forensics computer and
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cell phone digital forensics where we can recover deleted content
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from an email or a hard drive and produce a
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report for you that you can use in court. That's
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email revealer dot com, or you can contact me at
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Oppermaninvestigations at gmail dot com.
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WPR rebubdal covering the side the story missed by Wisconsin
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Public Radio. Bring you narratives. The UW system Board regents
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won't allow shedding the light on perspectives the owners at
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WPR don't want you to hear. Every Thursday at twelve
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thirty Central time, WPR Rebuttal is your destination for grassroots
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journalism in Saut County and beyond. Our Hoax Center. JPO
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provides insightful analysis and the stories that are only superficially
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covered by mainstream press. Our recent inventory of topics includes
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college graduate under employment, yellow journalism in the media, and
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favoritism in the public sector hiring process. Get your WPR
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rebuttal fixed thirdsdays at twelve thirty Central time.
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People are waking up. They're standing up to those pushing
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pesticides and GMOs as safe alternatives for a starving world.
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