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Hello, everyone.
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My name is Derek DeWinter and
welcome to our listeners who are
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tuning into the DeWinter Difference,
an audio podcast where I spend
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a bit of time with incredible
executives I've known for years.
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And you get to listen in.
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I hope our conversations are unique,
fun, insightful, make you think a
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little, and are just long enough to
listen while running an errand or two.
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Our goal is to have a little bit of fun,
provide something that you can apply in
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your own career, life, and relationships.
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First things first, have
you ever heard of a chief?
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Well, today you're going to hear
from one and that is John Lamb, chief
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perpetrator of 24 hours of lemons.
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And I can already hear the
wheels spinning in the audience.
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What's huh?
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24 hours of lemons.
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Let me pull back the curtain and
introduce you to John who goes by Jay.
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So Jay, thanks for joining us today.
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Thank you for having me.
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I appreciate it.
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You're welcome.
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So Jay, talk to us about who you are
and what on earth 24 hours of lemons is
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for those who've not heard of it before.
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24 Hours of Lemons is Beer
League for Motorsport.
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Essentially what that means is, is
unlike baseball and golf and, you know,
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all these other things that people are
passionate about, but maybe not expert at.
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Motorsport has always been, boy, if
you can't compete at a certain level,
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like you can't even get out there.
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And that just seemed ridiculous to us.
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So we created this you go to
big racetracks, Sebring, Sonoma,
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you know, things like that.
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You spend all weekend endurance racing
your race car against other people on
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the racetrack, but you cannot spend more
than 500 on the car, which pretty clearly
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expresses like, this is not serious.
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So it's turned into something quite
serious from a business perspective,
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but you know, do you remember
the day and place or moment that
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24 hours of lemons became real?
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And you know, there's certainly a
part of me that hopes that it was
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after You know, way too many drinks,
a bottle of rum and someone dared
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you to do something audacious.
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Well, you're not.
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Yeah, you're not as wrong as you think.
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There certainly was beer involved.
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There was years ago, 20 years ago, let's
say every Saturday, a bunch of car guys,
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friends of mine, and these two mentors
of mine, guys who became mentors of
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mine, Eric Zausner and Martin Swig.
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We'd all get together for this
lunch at a Chinese restaurant
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and sit around, talk about cars.
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And I had been throwing this idea out
because we'd been doing these 500 car
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road rallies for years just for fun.
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The idea being, look, if your car doesn't
break down, you don't have a good time.
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So let's get really cheap, crappy cars
and try to drive them on the street.
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I'd been thrown out this idea,
like, Hey guys, like, why don't
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we do this thing on a racetrack?
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Cause our cars are not breaking
down as much as they should.
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And let's go to a racetrack and
that'll make sure that they break down.
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And everybody thought
that was the dumbest idea.
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And one day at that lunch, I said,
well, well, what if I called it
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24 hours of lemons and everybody
thought, well, it's a pun.
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So sure.
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Why don't you build an
entire business on a pun?
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And there we were.
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you were double dog dared at a Chinese
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Yeah.
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Yes, that's exactly, that's exactly right.
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And I have to say it was not.
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Intended to be a business at all.
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I had started a bunch of businesses.
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I was running a business at the
time, and this just was gonna be
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a fun, a fun weekend for my 12
buddies around the table and me.
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I had no intention of
doing it more than once.
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It was just gonna be a party, and it just
kind of spun out of control from there.
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That's awesome.
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No good deed goes unpunished.
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Look at you.
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And all these years later.
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So, I mean, we're talking
about a lot of fun.
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We're talking about.
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Something that I, I absolutely gravitate
towards, although I've never been to one
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nor entered a car, so you can challenge
me at the end of this to do that.
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Yeah, but at the end of the day, I
mean, getting a bunch of people out on
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a racetrack finding sites, doing safety
checks the online presence, all that kind
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of stuff is a really complex operation.
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Share some of, share some
of the unique complexities.
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That maybe you didn't think about it.
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That Chinese restaurant when you were a
double dog there that, that over the years
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you've thought like, huh, I didn't see
that one coming or that's a bigger, bigger
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issue than I thought it was going to be.
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Yeah, well, I mean, I'll
say a couple of things.
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First of all, yeah, it was not intended
to be a business and it has become a
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business and, and as shocking as it is to
me and everybody else through no fault of
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our own mind and my teams, if you count
motorsport as People sitting in race cars
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racing against each other on the track.
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This is the biggest racing
series in the world.
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We have something on the order
of 7, 000 individuals running
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through this program every year.
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It is a very complicated business with a
lot of moving parts, but it's important
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because it's fun and it's supposed to be
not scary for people and it's supposed
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to be safe and I think it is safer.
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It's a safe as it can be.
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There's a lot of pieces that
you really needed to attend to.
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You know, fortunately for me, I
didn't understand any of that.
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When I started this thing, it was not
intended to be a big scaled business.
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So I came at it with
absolutely no preconceptions.
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And I think In a business that
turns out, I was really lucky.
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It turns out if you go into it without
any preconceptions, thinking, you know,
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how things work, you're in a much better
position to figure them out from first
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principles, from best practices, from
your own observations, and not to be
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poisoned by what the standard that's
already out there in the industry is.
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So I was really lucky with that, that.
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I didn't know a goddamn thing about
putting on a motorsport event or
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risk management of a motorsport
event or any of those things.
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I had to learn that from the ground up.
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Challenging things that have surprised me.
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You spoke to the complexity,
you know, the it background.
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Of a business like this is
weirdly complicated, and I
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wouldn't have expected that.
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The main reason is because the car in any
event, the car is an individual entity.
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It has to be tracked, and
there are certain interactions
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of other entities with it.
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The person, the driver is an entity,
the team is an individual entity.
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That is a group of drivers
in one car in one event.
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The event entry is an individual
entity, and all of those entities
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have to interact in the I.
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T.
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Space to get them registered and tracked
and paid and refunded and all of those
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things in an incredibly complicated way.
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And that's not software.
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That is not a tool.
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You can go to Oracle or to Salesforce
and say, Hey, give me that off the shelf.
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So as much as anything else you know,
we revolve around this very complicated
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piece of custom proprietary software
to manage all of these things.
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We we're running the biggest series in
the world in terms of asses and seats with
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a full time staff of like five people.
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And, you know, frankly.
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I'm one of those five and
I don't work very hard.
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So it's, that was a
real challenge to me.
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And I think philosophically
making a competitive event for
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fundamentally non competitive
people or to have a non competitive,
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even anti competitive environment.
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Cause that's what makes beer league fun.
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That was really challenging.
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And we struggle with that
from day one till now.
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How do you keep it fun?
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In this context of, you know, motorsport,
any kind of high level sport is
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about electing an elite, treating the
elite special lionizing the elite.
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But what we're doing is offering
people a place to go where you're
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rejecting the whole idea of an elite.
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And so that tension has
been really complicated.
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I think well, over the years,
we've done a pretty good job
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of balancing all that stuff.
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But yeah, way more complicated than you
think a bunch of idiots and crap cans
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running around a racetrack would be.
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I love that crap cans.
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So and it makes me immediately think.
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Of the disdain I would have
for the haters out there who
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would be like, Oh, you idiots.
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Yeah.
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Well, there's a lot
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of a thing.
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It's gotta be a
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of, yeah, there's a ton.
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But of course if you're talking about
a business, you really want the 99%
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of the world that has fantasized about
a thing, but never had the resources
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or whatever it was to get there.
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You know, traditional motor sport.
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Is really their customers are that 1
percent who had the rich father had some.
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I'm not going to say crazy talent
because that's a vanishingly small
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subset of how people get into it.
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Had the access, had the desire,
had the lack of fear to do it.
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That's a really small subset, and it's
great that motorsport exists for them.
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But for the 99 percent of the rest
of us, I wasn't that I'm sure you
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weren't that person for the 99
percent of the rest of us who yeah.
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Saw it, fantasized about it, but
really didn't feel I can make
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that mental leap and be involved.
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That's the market.
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That's awesome.
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By the way, I'm thinking to myself
right now, if you're listening to this.
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This is a more interesting
conversation to listen to if
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you have the website pulled up.
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And so I'll strongly encourage everybody
out there who is listening to this to
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pull up not just 24 Hour of Lemons,
but also pull up the 24 Hour of Lemons.
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You know, 24 hours,
plural, 24 hours of lemons.
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And thank you for giving me an
entree to spiff the website.
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Well,
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up 24 Hours of Le Mans as well
and put them side by side on your
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two big screens that you have.
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It's really, it's, the
disparity is fantastic.
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I love it.
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I love it.
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So, you know, on the Path of
Life there are attributes.
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Which help anyone excel.
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And whether that's personally or
professionally there are different
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attributes that, that work on the
personal side and some that work better
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on the professional side, what are some
of the ones that you would say have
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made you successful professionally?
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And what, and do you think they're
the same ones that have made you?
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Relatively successful personally.
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I will say, first of all, because
I think it has to be said with this
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business, I was incredibly lucky.
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You know, I, as I said, I'd start,
I've started other businesses before
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and I'm involved in other businesses.
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Now, this one has been way more
fun, way more compelling, and in
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a lot of ways, way more successful
than anything that I actually.
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put together a 40 page BP and
worked out all the variables.
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So I was incredibly lucky
in this particular case.
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And I've been pretty lucky my whole life.
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I, I think it turns out, and I didn't
know this growing up because the house I
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grew up in, we were, we were journalists.
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We were media people, my family, and
I didn't have any language for this,
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but I'm kind of good at business.
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I mean, I'm organized.
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I kind of get ops on an internal level.
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I'm pretty good at imagining.
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Well, if a what's gonna happen?
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B.
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C.
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D.
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Download the rewind.
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My brain's just kind of wired that way.
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And so, you know, I didn't know
it at the time, but I think I was
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suited for this kind of a role.
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And I was lucky in this
business to stumble into it.
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It's much more complicated.
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It involves a lot more personal
relationships and projecting out
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what's going to happen next year.
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What's going to happen out 10 years,
then other businesses I've been
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involved in just kind of suited to that.
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I have a weird brain, really.
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My brain, and I've learned this
about myself, it seems to focus
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much less on what's in front of me
than I'm curious about, well, how
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did that get there in front of me?
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And what's going to
happen to it after this?
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That's just kind of the way
that my brain has always worked.
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00:11:19,537 --> 00:11:23,847
And it means I can never
remember anything in real time.
235
00:11:24,097 --> 00:11:28,447
But I think I have a pretty good, just
a natural feel for what's Why am I
236
00:11:28,447 --> 00:11:32,107
seeing what I'm seeing now and what's
the likely outcome of what I'm seeing?
237
00:11:32,607 --> 00:11:33,807
I think I'm just wired that way.
238
00:11:34,522 --> 00:11:35,482
That's pretty good wiring.
239
00:11:35,702 --> 00:11:38,512
Well, I mean, you use the word
luck or you reference having quite
240
00:11:38,512 --> 00:11:41,392
a bit of luck, not just in this,
but over the course of your life.
241
00:11:41,712 --> 00:11:45,722
And you also use the word organized
in terms of describing yourself.
242
00:11:46,162 --> 00:11:48,932
That is I've heard the term
before luck favors the prepared.
243
00:11:49,422 --> 00:11:54,302
And so I think that organization gives
you more opportunities to be lucky.
244
00:11:54,567 --> 00:11:56,117
Yeah, I, I really agree.
245
00:11:56,117 --> 00:11:59,037
And, and, and I try to stress
this with our customers.
246
00:11:59,397 --> 00:12:04,157
A lot of our customers because they have
watched racing on TV, they've read about
247
00:12:04,157 --> 00:12:05,427
racing, they see it on the internet.
248
00:12:06,157 --> 00:12:12,107
They fall into this trap of thinking
that racing is about the car and the car
249
00:12:12,107 --> 00:12:14,447
is the least important part of racing.
250
00:12:14,677 --> 00:12:21,147
Racing is 85 percent organization and it's
made maybe 10 percent driving talent and
251
00:12:21,147 --> 00:12:25,467
it's 5 percent hardware and people come
away thinking it's all about hardware.
252
00:12:25,787 --> 00:12:30,187
Because what they're exposed to out
in the world is that tiny little
253
00:12:30,207 --> 00:12:35,847
fraction of teams and drivers and
entities that have been so successful,
254
00:12:35,847 --> 00:12:37,337
they solved the first two problem.
255
00:12:37,677 --> 00:12:39,077
They solve the organization problem.
256
00:12:39,077 --> 00:12:40,817
They've largely solved
the driving problem.
257
00:12:41,007 --> 00:12:42,057
What they're left with are these.
258
00:12:42,487 --> 00:12:45,367
Fractional unimportant
differences in the hardware.
259
00:12:45,697 --> 00:12:46,747
Our guys show up.
260
00:12:47,187 --> 00:12:47,997
They're not organized.
261
00:12:48,027 --> 00:12:50,037
They don't even know where
their gas can is They don't
262
00:12:50,037 --> 00:12:51,437
know where their lug wrench is.
263
00:12:51,867 --> 00:12:54,427
They're off the track for 45
minutes scratching their head
264
00:12:54,427 --> 00:12:55,927
like where's my power drill?
265
00:12:55,927 --> 00:13:00,567
I don't know what's going on and yet
they think oh if I had more horsepower,
266
00:13:00,907 --> 00:13:04,937
I'd win this thing and that's just
fundamentally wrong Organization in
267
00:13:04,947 --> 00:13:10,067
all things in life, I think is that's
the foundation that yeah you You put
268
00:13:10,067 --> 00:13:14,587
yourself in a position to be lucky,
but again, you also have to be lucky.
269
00:13:15,752 --> 00:13:16,662
Yeah, absolutely.
270
00:13:16,812 --> 00:13:19,432
So I don't know if you can disclose
this, but who is Who is the most
271
00:13:19,432 --> 00:13:21,812
famous person to have entered
a vehicle in one of your races?
272
00:13:22,132 --> 00:13:27,832
Well, actually we do get a lot of
professional and very successful
273
00:13:28,132 --> 00:13:31,992
race drivers who come through and
some of them come once and say, we
274
00:13:31,992 --> 00:13:34,422
want nothing And and that's fine.
275
00:13:34,422 --> 00:13:35,932
They're entitled and they're not wrong.
276
00:13:36,172 --> 00:13:39,552
And then a handful of them are like,
wow, this is the most fun thing I haven't
277
00:13:39,552 --> 00:13:44,932
had this much fun since I started most
of those people Do not want their names
278
00:13:44,932 --> 00:13:48,352
out there because they're contractually
obligated not to do other racing series.
279
00:13:48,662 --> 00:13:53,162
Travis pastrana is one I can mention
because we had a Sponsorship deal
280
00:13:53,162 --> 00:13:56,542
with one of his sponsors and so he was
pretty public, you know, the guy Bye
281
00:13:56,802 --> 00:14:00,932
We've had some Hollywood people come
through the guy that I really had the
282
00:14:00,932 --> 00:14:05,702
most fun with was Neil Peart, who died
recently, which is sort of tragic, but
283
00:14:05,962 --> 00:14:07,852
he's the he was a drummer from Rush.
284
00:14:08,782 --> 00:14:09,492
He.
285
00:14:09,872 --> 00:14:12,502
And I'm not a huge Rush
fan, but I'm aware of him.
286
00:14:12,522 --> 00:14:18,892
He was one of, one of the most talented
drummers of the last century and the
287
00:14:18,892 --> 00:14:25,582
sweetest, most enthusiastic, low key
guy, which is show up flew under the
288
00:14:25,582 --> 00:14:27,612
radar, would hang out and have a hot dog.
289
00:14:27,897 --> 00:14:28,957
We had great conversations.
290
00:14:28,967 --> 00:14:30,617
He liked the same kind
of cars that I liked.
291
00:14:31,077 --> 00:14:32,087
I miss Neil.
292
00:14:32,087 --> 00:14:33,657
He was really a great customer.
293
00:14:34,732 --> 00:14:35,232
That's awesome.
294
00:14:35,542 --> 00:14:39,922
So as a CEO of a smaller organization,
do you feel like you have to bring
295
00:14:39,952 --> 00:14:44,072
a greater love or appreciation for
the product or service than say
296
00:14:44,072 --> 00:14:46,452
the CEO of a larger organization?
297
00:14:46,452 --> 00:14:48,662
Or is that, am I, am I off the mark there?
298
00:14:48,837 --> 00:14:52,367
Well, I've never had a real
job, so I can't speak to being
299
00:14:52,367 --> 00:14:53,287
in a larger organization.
300
00:14:53,407 --> 00:14:54,617
I don't really know.
301
00:14:54,657 --> 00:15:00,157
I think with a smaller organization,
we are all, all of us on the core
302
00:15:00,157 --> 00:15:04,907
team and let's, you know, there's five
people who were FTEs core team, but.
303
00:15:05,262 --> 00:15:09,532
And there's a dozen prime
contractors who are pretty involved.
304
00:15:09,532 --> 00:15:13,682
And then every event you're picking
up 60 or 70 humans to run an event.
305
00:15:13,702 --> 00:15:16,522
So there's a lot of people, but
the core team is definitely small.
306
00:15:16,932 --> 00:15:22,612
And I think everybody in a small
company like ours understands the
307
00:15:22,622 --> 00:15:25,072
business in a much more complete way.
308
00:15:25,342 --> 00:15:29,892
Then people in a larger anybody
who's on our weekly stand up calls
309
00:15:29,932 --> 00:15:33,882
could step in if I got hit by a bus
and could figure out how to run this
310
00:15:33,882 --> 00:15:35,482
thing and would do a good job of it.
311
00:15:36,052 --> 00:15:37,122
And I think that's great.
312
00:15:37,162 --> 00:15:38,662
I mean, that's really satisfying.
313
00:15:40,447 --> 00:15:41,707
Are we more committed?
314
00:15:41,707 --> 00:15:42,547
Are we more passionate?
315
00:15:42,557 --> 00:15:43,017
I don't know.
316
00:15:43,047 --> 00:15:47,927
I mean, maybe people who show up at
Apple are as steeped as we are in
317
00:15:47,927 --> 00:15:52,217
their little piece of it, but I think
that we all have a much more holistic.
318
00:15:52,217 --> 00:15:55,007
I hate the word, but a much more
holistic view of well, what's
319
00:15:55,007 --> 00:15:55,827
going on with the business?
320
00:15:56,067 --> 00:15:57,297
Where's the business going?
321
00:15:57,617 --> 00:15:59,307
You know, what does it
need to operate every day?
322
00:15:59,317 --> 00:16:00,647
And that's pretty fun.
323
00:16:01,697 --> 00:16:04,487
Well, speaking of where the business
is going, you've got races and
324
00:16:04,487 --> 00:16:06,827
rallies and big online presence.
325
00:16:06,837 --> 00:16:08,717
Have you looked into anything else?
326
00:16:08,747 --> 00:16:10,537
Maybe things that float or
327
00:16:10,587 --> 00:16:13,957
Yeah, well, we've, we've had some for you.
328
00:16:13,957 --> 00:16:16,177
So this thing has been
going on since 2006.
329
00:16:16,247 --> 00:16:19,237
I mean, it's been a real
business since about 2009.
330
00:16:19,237 --> 00:16:21,827
It became clear in about 2009.
331
00:16:21,827 --> 00:16:24,337
Like, okay, this, this is a better
business than some of the other
332
00:16:24,337 --> 00:16:25,177
things we're doing right now.
333
00:16:25,177 --> 00:16:29,407
But so it's been around a really
long time and in, in all those years.
334
00:16:29,937 --> 00:16:34,187
We have looked at a lot of, I call
them brand extensions and, you know,
335
00:16:34,187 --> 00:16:38,837
we've talked about boats and somebody
suggested 50 horses, which I thought
336
00:16:38,837 --> 00:16:40,437
was a pretty, a pretty funny idea.
337
00:16:40,447 --> 00:16:44,907
But the truth is, and we've gone down
some of those roads and done some
338
00:16:44,907 --> 00:16:47,167
extensions and some of them still exist.
339
00:16:47,237 --> 00:16:50,357
We have a street rally
program that still exists.
340
00:16:50,387 --> 00:16:52,897
We've done international
franchising over the years.
341
00:16:53,247 --> 00:16:56,697
We have an eye racing thing that we
started during COVID that still exists,
342
00:16:57,087 --> 00:17:02,112
but for the most part, What I've
learned is, you know, we have this great
343
00:17:02,152 --> 00:17:06,262
product and we have these really loyal
customers because they like the product.
344
00:17:06,622 --> 00:17:07,662
They like what we're doing.
345
00:17:07,922 --> 00:17:13,112
If you're going to wake up in the morning
and pursue something, Until you have
346
00:17:13,112 --> 00:17:17,662
really found every single customer who
wants that product, focus on your product.
347
00:17:17,662 --> 00:17:22,442
And, and, and, and, and when we have
gone after these brand extensions, I
348
00:17:22,442 --> 00:17:26,482
realized now in retrospect, cause I was
too stupid to realize it at the time.
349
00:17:27,182 --> 00:17:31,762
What we were doing was trying to work
around the fact that we bumped up to the
350
00:17:31,762 --> 00:17:34,152
limits of our own in house marketing.
351
00:17:34,582 --> 00:17:38,007
You know, we had, Exhausted the
ways we knew how to reach more
352
00:17:38,047 --> 00:17:41,217
customers and instead of asking
the right question, which is, well,
353
00:17:41,257 --> 00:17:43,547
okay, we've done what we know.
354
00:17:43,687 --> 00:17:46,467
How do we find someone who can
do more than we know how to do?
355
00:17:46,737 --> 00:17:47,897
That's the right question.
356
00:17:47,897 --> 00:17:49,707
So we can solve more of our real product.
357
00:17:49,997 --> 00:17:52,127
We would say, Oh, well, what
about an electric car rally?
358
00:17:52,127 --> 00:17:52,727
What about this?
359
00:17:52,757 --> 00:17:53,437
What about that?
360
00:17:53,747 --> 00:17:57,757
And I mean, I'm mentioning this
because you guys in your other hat, you
361
00:17:57,757 --> 00:17:59,080
actually helped us solve that problem.
362
00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:00,747
I mean, we found a great solution.
363
00:18:00,902 --> 00:18:03,332
Guide or run a marketing
program through you.
364
00:18:03,342 --> 00:18:03,942
Thank you.
365
00:18:04,222 --> 00:18:06,472
And he's been a wonderful
guy and a wonderful addition.
366
00:18:06,802 --> 00:18:07,992
And that's the right answer.
367
00:18:08,252 --> 00:18:13,112
Eventually, eventually you reach every
customer and you want another product.
368
00:18:13,152 --> 00:18:16,762
But, you know, we're not there and we
won't be there for a long time yet.
369
00:18:17,012 --> 00:18:21,132
So we're looking at how do
you, how do you get more people
370
00:18:21,172 --> 00:18:22,812
into this program that runs?
371
00:18:22,812 --> 00:18:24,192
Well, we know how to do it.
372
00:18:26,157 --> 00:18:27,767
Thanks for the plug you minks.
373
00:18:27,797 --> 00:18:28,547
That's great.
374
00:18:28,557 --> 00:18:29,187
I appreciate
375
00:18:29,347 --> 00:18:29,877
it's true.
376
00:18:29,907 --> 00:18:30,357
It's true.
377
00:18:30,557 --> 00:18:33,437
I, I, I have to say, and I haven't
talked to you much since that hire,
378
00:18:33,867 --> 00:18:36,767
he's been great and he's really
made everybody's life better.
379
00:18:36,767 --> 00:18:37,037
So thanks.
380
00:18:38,057 --> 00:18:38,907
And hopefully listening.
381
00:18:38,937 --> 00:18:39,577
So that's great.
382
00:18:40,047 --> 00:18:42,257
No, hopefully not because I don't
have to give him another race.
383
00:18:43,867 --> 00:18:46,817
so I've done a bunch of
these podcasts and, you know,
384
00:18:46,817 --> 00:18:48,587
typically just the spoiler alert.
385
00:18:48,587 --> 00:18:48,887
Bye.
386
00:18:49,037 --> 00:18:51,397
I share a little bit about some of
the questions that I'm going to ask.
387
00:18:51,397 --> 00:18:54,907
And you know, this, the next question
is perhaps the dumbest question I've
388
00:18:54,907 --> 00:18:58,317
ever asked on any of these things based
on the conversation that we've had.
389
00:18:58,697 --> 00:19:02,167
And it's, if you could have the same
lifestyle you have today doing something
390
00:19:02,187 --> 00:19:04,337
different, what would that be and why?
391
00:19:04,357 --> 00:19:08,947
And I can't imagine the answer is
anything different than what you're doing.
392
00:19:10,257 --> 00:19:12,337
Well, you'd be surprised actually.
393
00:19:12,367 --> 00:19:17,607
I mean, I, listen, I am fully aware of how
fortunate I am and what a great business
394
00:19:17,627 --> 00:19:23,837
this is in a lot of ways and how fun
the people that I work with are, I can't
395
00:19:23,837 --> 00:19:27,167
imagine somebody in a better position, but
your question is a little bit different.
396
00:19:27,227 --> 00:19:28,152
Your question is.
397
00:19:28,292 --> 00:19:31,352
You know, if it were something
different and it's the lifestyle
398
00:19:31,352 --> 00:19:32,482
you're living, what would it be?
399
00:19:32,942 --> 00:19:38,022
And we I thought a lot about
this and weirdly I think it and
400
00:19:38,022 --> 00:19:40,992
nobody's gonna say this in 2024.
401
00:19:41,252 --> 00:19:44,662
Nobody's gonna say this because
it's a bad word, but private equity.
402
00:19:45,142 --> 00:19:47,832
I mean, it's such an
interesting business to me.
403
00:19:48,012 --> 00:19:51,882
I know a lot of people who are in it
and and as much as that is a cursed
404
00:19:51,882 --> 00:19:56,302
word right now, and it's something else
will be the bogeyman a year from now.
405
00:19:57,802 --> 00:20:01,492
The idea that there are all these
really interesting businesses out
406
00:20:01,492 --> 00:20:06,042
there, and a lot of them really need
the kind of skill set that I think I
407
00:20:06,112 --> 00:20:10,952
have and you could preserve a lot of
jobs, and you could preserve a lot of
408
00:20:11,252 --> 00:20:15,542
happy customers just by being able to
touch some of these things and get in.
409
00:20:15,912 --> 00:20:19,832
That's really interesting to me,
and I didn't even know that that
410
00:20:19,832 --> 00:20:21,352
was a possibility out in the world.
411
00:20:21,577 --> 00:20:24,787
Until I was in my, you know, 20s,
I just wasn't exposed to that.
412
00:20:25,607 --> 00:20:28,787
And I think that's where I would've
wound up, in a different life.
413
00:20:29,457 --> 00:20:30,017
Interesting.
414
00:20:30,017 --> 00:20:30,487
I, you're right.
415
00:20:30,487 --> 00:20:31,877
I would not have expected that, but if I!
416
00:20:31,877 --> 00:20:33,297
unpack who you are.
417
00:20:33,752 --> 00:20:37,312
Yeah, but if I unpack who you are and
what you're good at and the things that
418
00:20:37,322 --> 00:20:42,052
you've accomplished and Being able to wear
multiple hats as you obviously have to
419
00:20:42,432 --> 00:20:43,842
It actually makes a little bit of sense.
420
00:20:43,852 --> 00:20:46,682
So I'll give you some credit for
for thinking about that all right,
421
00:20:46,682 --> 00:20:49,912
we get to the the fun part of the
program here where as much as we've
422
00:20:49,942 --> 00:20:52,492
had some conversations about some of
the questions that we were going to
423
00:20:52,492 --> 00:20:53,812
talk about and you're going to answer.
424
00:20:54,202 --> 00:20:58,222
I, I let you ask me a question
and I have no idea what it is.
425
00:20:58,232 --> 00:21:00,422
So I'll do my best not to put my foot
426
00:21:01,412 --> 00:21:03,932
wedge deeply in my mouth,
but we'll see what we can do.
427
00:21:04,007 --> 00:21:05,587
I'm gonna, I'm gonna give you a choice.
428
00:21:05,647 --> 00:21:06,987
Professional or personal?
429
00:21:08,582 --> 00:21:09,372
Oh, it's personal.
430
00:21:09,907 --> 00:21:10,417
Personal.
431
00:21:11,072 --> 00:21:11,522
Yeah.
432
00:21:11,707 --> 00:21:12,217
Alright!
433
00:21:12,357 --> 00:21:18,302
So, I've always had this fantasy I
want to buy a Citroen 2CV, preferably
434
00:21:18,302 --> 00:21:20,182
a real old one with the small motor.
435
00:21:20,292 --> 00:21:24,112
They're all small, but the smallest
motor top speed is like 55 miles
436
00:21:24,112 --> 00:21:24,942
an hour on one of these things.
437
00:21:25,252 --> 00:21:26,752
I want to buy one of
these on the East coast.
438
00:21:27,292 --> 00:21:28,752
It take about three weeks.
439
00:21:29,052 --> 00:21:30,162
You can't go on an interstate.
440
00:21:30,162 --> 00:21:32,822
You'll get cream driving this
thing back to California.
441
00:21:32,912 --> 00:21:33,552
You want to come.
442
00:21:35,022 --> 00:21:35,632
Yeah.
443
00:21:36,702 --> 00:21:42,632
I thought about I don't know that I
have the, my back might give out my, my
444
00:21:42,642 --> 00:21:46,462
brain might give out, but I've always
had a romantic notion of doing something
445
00:21:46,462 --> 00:21:48,022
like that, and there was a guy that I.
446
00:21:48,517 --> 00:21:52,927
Worked with years ago who did one
of these in, I mean, an insane
447
00:21:53,257 --> 00:21:59,947
trek across one of the Akustans
What's the name of that thing?
448
00:21:59,997 --> 00:22:01,967
It's like it's this incredible rally
449
00:22:02,292 --> 00:22:03,102
peaking to Paris.
450
00:22:03,602 --> 00:22:07,072
There, there's one that, you know,
it does what it says on the can.
451
00:22:07,132 --> 00:22:11,222
You start in Peking with these old
cars or Beijing, they call it Peking
452
00:22:11,232 --> 00:22:14,982
to Paris, because that was the historic
name of this rally and they go through
453
00:22:15,002 --> 00:22:19,992
eight or nine stands on their way to
Europe and and they end up in Paris
454
00:22:20,222 --> 00:22:25,542
and yeah, guys are doing this in,
you know, 1938 Fords and 1952 MGs.
455
00:22:25,892 --> 00:22:26,552
I'll do that.
456
00:22:26,762 --> 00:22:28,272
I'll do that instead of the two CV.
457
00:22:29,042 --> 00:22:33,072
Well, I think the the guy that I know
that did this the point was that when
458
00:22:33,072 --> 00:22:39,242
you got to where you Donated the car
to whoever it was that was there.
459
00:22:39,242 --> 00:22:40,062
And I think a lot of the
460
00:22:40,152 --> 00:22:41,378
Oh, I like that.
461
00:22:41,378 --> 00:22:41,786
I
462
00:22:41,786 --> 00:22:42,194
like
463
00:22:42,222 --> 00:22:46,812
ended up being like old retrofitted
ambulances and cars that you could
464
00:22:46,822 --> 00:22:51,652
use like civically within the
township or whatever it might be.
465
00:22:51,652 --> 00:22:54,297
And I think by the time you got to that
place, I'm not so sure that they were.
466
00:22:54,297 --> 00:22:55,987
But the intent was very good.
467
00:22:56,172 --> 00:22:57,482
Yeah, there's always scrap value.
468
00:22:57,482 --> 00:22:57,722
All right.
469
00:22:57,722 --> 00:22:59,002
Well, you figure out what that one is.
470
00:22:59,222 --> 00:23:00,202
That's vaguely familiar.
471
00:23:00,222 --> 00:23:01,712
There's a lot of these kinds of things.
472
00:23:02,062 --> 00:23:03,752
And yeah, I've wanted to do that.
473
00:23:03,992 --> 00:23:08,132
There's one that runs to hold the
perimeter of Africa in old cars.
474
00:23:08,192 --> 00:23:09,092
I would do that one.
475
00:23:09,442 --> 00:23:10,862
I want to, I want to do one of those.
476
00:23:10,862 --> 00:23:12,052
If you're in, we'll do it together.
477
00:23:12,602 --> 00:23:16,162
That would be, I'm going to have to
talk to my, I hope my wife is not
478
00:23:16,162 --> 00:23:20,132
listening to this one because she
may immediately put the kibosh on it.
479
00:23:20,272 --> 00:23:21,972
Hey, by the way, I just curiosity.
480
00:23:22,022 --> 00:23:27,662
Is there any chance you guys get to
France and do one of your races on the
481
00:23:27,662 --> 00:23:30,352
track for the 24 hours of Le Manses?
482
00:23:30,667 --> 00:23:32,817
It's interesting you ask that question.
483
00:23:32,827 --> 00:23:39,587
So about 10 years ago when we started
doing a franchise business and our first
484
00:23:39,587 --> 00:23:44,065
franchisee was Australia, that's our
first franchise territory that that what?
485
00:23:44,365 --> 00:23:49,575
Cooked along fine for a year or two,
and then I got this letter from the, the
486
00:23:49,575 --> 00:23:53,705
ACO, which runs, you know, owns the 24
Hours of Le Mans, and they said, Hey,
487
00:23:53,705 --> 00:23:55,465
dude, like, what the hell are you doing?
488
00:23:55,465 --> 00:23:56,335
You can't do this, right?
489
00:23:56,335 --> 00:23:57,225
We're going to sue your ass.
490
00:23:57,275 --> 00:24:02,435
And, and my first reaction, of course,
was, well, screw them, like, ah,
491
00:24:02,845 --> 00:24:04,695
And, you know, I have this great I.
492
00:24:04,695 --> 00:24:05,085
T.
493
00:24:05,095 --> 00:24:08,735
lawyer who Mark Steiner, who
immediately talked me off of that.
494
00:24:08,735 --> 00:24:11,155
I said, dude, they're not wrong.
495
00:24:11,175 --> 00:24:12,985
Of course, like you
would do the same thing.
496
00:24:12,985 --> 00:24:15,155
And I, and I immediately
realized like, well, yeah, no,
497
00:24:15,165 --> 00:24:16,215
actually they're not wrong.
498
00:24:16,255 --> 00:24:16,825
I get that.
499
00:24:17,015 --> 00:24:20,085
So we wound up working
out a deal with them.
500
00:24:20,565 --> 00:24:24,365
We are able to operate
with our, with our name.
501
00:24:24,695 --> 00:24:28,385
I mean, the premise was if they're
going to fight us in every country.
502
00:24:28,965 --> 00:24:32,085
That kind of IP law is different
country to country, and you know,
503
00:24:32,085 --> 00:24:35,075
we'd win some, we'd lose some, but I
don't want to live my life like that.
504
00:24:35,085 --> 00:24:35,795
That's ridiculous.
505
00:24:36,005 --> 00:24:37,385
And the fact is, they weren't wrong.
506
00:24:37,385 --> 00:24:39,785
They were right to be
worried about confusion.
507
00:24:40,185 --> 00:24:42,215
Particularly in non English
speaking countries, where the
508
00:24:42,215 --> 00:24:43,245
word lemons doesn't mean anything.
509
00:24:43,855 --> 00:24:46,175
So, anyway, we work out a deal with them.
510
00:24:46,535 --> 00:24:46,775
U.
511
00:24:46,775 --> 00:24:50,535
S., Canada, Australia,
New Zealand, no problem.
512
00:24:50,795 --> 00:24:55,370
If we want to work anywhere else,
We have to get their sign off.
513
00:24:55,370 --> 00:24:58,020
And I think that, you know,
sort of implies some sort
514
00:24:58,020 --> 00:24:59,430
of working together piece.
515
00:24:59,980 --> 00:25:02,920
I always, in the back of my mind, I
wanted to get on an airplane and fly to
516
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:05,590
Paris and sit down with those guys and
say, okay, what does that really mean?
517
00:25:05,590 --> 00:25:07,700
Like, do we really want to try to do this?
518
00:25:08,010 --> 00:25:12,630
But as I was saying before, I got
more, I have more immediate problems.
519
00:25:13,755 --> 00:25:17,455
But, you know, I certainly
never expected and we've had I.
520
00:25:17,525 --> 00:25:18,015
P.
521
00:25:18,035 --> 00:25:18,675
We've had I.
522
00:25:18,675 --> 00:25:18,885
P.
523
00:25:18,925 --> 00:25:27,095
Matches now with Mattel and with Disney,
both of which we won very quickly, which I
524
00:25:27,095 --> 00:25:28,875
don't know anybody else who can say that.
525
00:25:30,475 --> 00:25:34,575
And I think I realized very quickly,
boy, life is too short to be sideways
526
00:25:34,575 --> 00:25:36,125
with people about that kind of thing.
527
00:25:36,125 --> 00:25:38,485
I mean, you just don't want
to be in the middle of that.
528
00:25:38,525 --> 00:25:42,975
So I guess that's a long roundabout way
of saying, I doubt we'll be running it.
529
00:25:44,500 --> 00:25:47,930
I'm soon unless I can come up with
another pun as good as this one.
530
00:25:47,930 --> 00:25:50,120
That doesn't make my French friends angry.
531
00:25:50,300 --> 00:25:51,600
I don't think I'll be there.
532
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,890
that's hilarious, but look Jay,
it was an absolute pleasure.
533
00:25:56,300 --> 00:25:57,890
Talking to you like this so
534
00:25:57,900 --> 00:25:58,060
you.
535
00:25:58,060 --> 00:25:58,680
I bet it's
536
00:25:59,830 --> 00:26:01,010
others can listen in.
537
00:26:01,010 --> 00:26:08,090
You are, I, you are absolutely the
chiefest perpetrator I've ever met.
538
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:12,720
And you know, I, you've, you've got me on
the hook for thinking about doing this.
539
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,150
I have buddies that would say
yes in about a nanosecond.
540
00:26:15,490 --> 00:26:18,840
In fact, I should have texted them all
before we started this podcast and see
541
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:22,500
if they all said yes, by the time I
we finished and for those out who are
542
00:26:22,500 --> 00:26:24,880
interested in a racing beer league.
543
00:26:25,305 --> 00:26:27,375
I strongly encourage you
to take a look at this.
544
00:26:27,475 --> 00:26:28,595
It should, it would be a lot of fun.
545
00:26:29,380 --> 00:26:30,740
well, thanks very much.
546
00:26:30,790 --> 00:26:33,190
And I'm going to go
shopping for that to CV now.
547
00:26:33,250 --> 00:26:35,570
So I'll meet you in Rhode
Island with the car.
548
00:26:36,605 --> 00:26:36,995
Excellent.
549
00:26:36,995 --> 00:26:37,505
We'll talk to you soon.
550
00:26:37,505 --> 00:26:37,795
Jay.
551
00:26:37,980 --> 00:26:38,340
Take care.
552
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:38,630
Thanks.
553
00:26:38,830 --> 00:26:39,050
Bye
00:00:00,897 --> 00:00:01,567
Hello, everyone.
2
00:00:01,577 --> 00:00:04,527
My name is Derek DeWinter and
welcome to our listeners who are
3
00:00:04,527 --> 00:00:08,157
tuning into the DeWinter Difference,
an audio podcast where I spend
4
00:00:08,157 --> 00:00:11,087
a bit of time with incredible
executives I've known for years.
5
00:00:11,087 --> 00:00:12,157
And you get to listen in.
6
00:00:12,707 --> 00:00:16,677
I hope our conversations are unique,
fun, insightful, make you think a
7
00:00:16,677 --> 00:00:20,287
little, and are just long enough to
listen while running an errand or two.
8
00:00:20,707 --> 00:00:23,547
Our goal is to have a little bit of fun,
provide something that you can apply in
9
00:00:23,547 --> 00:00:26,087
your own career, life, and relationships.
10
00:00:26,777 --> 00:00:29,607
First things first, have
you ever heard of a chief?
11
00:00:31,057 --> 00:00:34,187
Well, today you're going to hear
from one and that is John Lamb, chief
12
00:00:34,187 --> 00:00:36,427
perpetrator of 24 hours of lemons.
13
00:00:36,867 --> 00:00:39,497
And I can already hear the
wheels spinning in the audience.
14
00:00:39,537 --> 00:00:40,357
What's huh?
15
00:00:40,427 --> 00:00:41,787
24 hours of lemons.
16
00:00:42,257 --> 00:00:45,647
Let me pull back the curtain and
introduce you to John who goes by Jay.
17
00:00:45,897 --> 00:00:47,537
So Jay, thanks for joining us today.
18
00:00:47,922 --> 00:00:48,642
Thank you for having me.
19
00:00:48,642 --> 00:00:49,182
I appreciate it.
20
00:00:49,727 --> 00:00:50,407
You're welcome.
21
00:00:50,767 --> 00:00:55,917
So Jay, talk to us about who you are
and what on earth 24 hours of lemons is
22
00:00:55,917 --> 00:00:57,327
for those who've not heard of it before.
23
00:00:57,532 --> 00:01:00,582
24 Hours of Lemons is Beer
League for Motorsport.
24
00:01:00,932 --> 00:01:05,162
Essentially what that means is, is
unlike baseball and golf and, you know,
25
00:01:05,162 --> 00:01:08,992
all these other things that people are
passionate about, but maybe not expert at.
26
00:01:09,282 --> 00:01:13,382
Motorsport has always been, boy, if
you can't compete at a certain level,
27
00:01:13,382 --> 00:01:14,762
like you can't even get out there.
28
00:01:14,952 --> 00:01:17,242
And that just seemed ridiculous to us.
29
00:01:17,672 --> 00:01:22,612
So we created this you go to
big racetracks, Sebring, Sonoma,
30
00:01:22,612 --> 00:01:23,672
you know, things like that.
31
00:01:23,912 --> 00:01:28,112
You spend all weekend endurance racing
your race car against other people on
32
00:01:28,112 --> 00:01:33,812
the racetrack, but you cannot spend more
than 500 on the car, which pretty clearly
33
00:01:33,812 --> 00:01:35,942
expresses like, this is not serious.
34
00:01:38,667 --> 00:01:43,047
So it's turned into something quite
serious from a business perspective,
35
00:01:43,057 --> 00:01:46,567
but you know, do you remember
the day and place or moment that
36
00:01:46,577 --> 00:01:48,957
24 hours of lemons became real?
37
00:01:49,267 --> 00:01:51,397
And you know, there's certainly a
part of me that hopes that it was
38
00:01:51,397 --> 00:01:55,187
after You know, way too many drinks,
a bottle of rum and someone dared
39
00:01:55,187 --> 00:01:56,627
you to do something audacious.
40
00:01:56,907 --> 00:01:57,357
Well, you're not.
41
00:01:58,047 --> 00:01:59,927
Yeah, you're not as wrong as you think.
42
00:02:00,167 --> 00:02:02,067
There certainly was beer involved.
43
00:02:02,317 --> 00:02:07,237
There was years ago, 20 years ago, let's
say every Saturday, a bunch of car guys,
44
00:02:07,237 --> 00:02:11,107
friends of mine, and these two mentors
of mine, guys who became mentors of
45
00:02:11,107 --> 00:02:12,987
mine, Eric Zausner and Martin Swig.
46
00:02:13,267 --> 00:02:16,037
We'd all get together for this
lunch at a Chinese restaurant
47
00:02:16,037 --> 00:02:17,337
and sit around, talk about cars.
48
00:02:17,757 --> 00:02:22,897
And I had been throwing this idea out
because we'd been doing these 500 car
49
00:02:22,897 --> 00:02:24,807
road rallies for years just for fun.
50
00:02:25,027 --> 00:02:28,027
The idea being, look, if your car doesn't
break down, you don't have a good time.
51
00:02:28,217 --> 00:02:31,117
So let's get really cheap, crappy cars
and try to drive them on the street.
52
00:02:31,492 --> 00:02:33,762
I'd been thrown out this idea,
like, Hey guys, like, why don't
53
00:02:33,762 --> 00:02:35,102
we do this thing on a racetrack?
54
00:02:35,112 --> 00:02:37,752
Cause our cars are not breaking
down as much as they should.
55
00:02:38,012 --> 00:02:40,782
And let's go to a racetrack and
that'll make sure that they break down.
56
00:02:41,092 --> 00:02:42,782
And everybody thought
that was the dumbest idea.
57
00:02:42,822 --> 00:02:45,672
And one day at that lunch, I said,
well, well, what if I called it
58
00:02:45,732 --> 00:02:49,162
24 hours of lemons and everybody
thought, well, it's a pun.
59
00:02:49,172 --> 00:02:49,822
So sure.
60
00:02:49,832 --> 00:02:52,032
Why don't you build an
entire business on a pun?
61
00:02:52,272 --> 00:02:53,152
And there we were.
62
00:02:54,507 --> 00:02:57,067
you were double dog dared at a Chinese
63
00:02:57,102 --> 00:02:57,292
Yeah.
64
00:02:57,972 --> 00:02:59,512
Yes, that's exactly, that's exactly right.
65
00:02:59,512 --> 00:03:01,732
And I have to say it was not.
66
00:03:02,022 --> 00:03:03,312
Intended to be a business at all.
67
00:03:03,312 --> 00:03:04,752
I had started a bunch of businesses.
68
00:03:04,752 --> 00:03:08,059
I was running a business at the
time, and this just was gonna be
69
00:03:08,059 --> 00:03:11,719
a fun, a fun weekend for my 12
buddies around the table and me.
70
00:03:12,259 --> 00:03:14,329
I had no intention of
doing it more than once.
71
00:03:14,329 --> 00:03:18,199
It was just gonna be a party, and it just
kind of spun out of control from there.
72
00:03:18,884 --> 00:03:19,594
That's awesome.
73
00:03:19,594 --> 00:03:20,804
No good deed goes unpunished.
74
00:03:20,804 --> 00:03:21,264
Look at you.
75
00:03:21,364 --> 00:03:22,344
And all these years later.
76
00:03:22,584 --> 00:03:24,284
So, I mean, we're talking
about a lot of fun.
77
00:03:24,284 --> 00:03:24,984
We're talking about.
78
00:03:25,379 --> 00:03:29,779
Something that I, I absolutely gravitate
towards, although I've never been to one
79
00:03:29,789 --> 00:03:33,989
nor entered a car, so you can challenge
me at the end of this to do that.
80
00:03:34,049 --> 00:03:37,629
Yeah, but at the end of the day, I
mean, getting a bunch of people out on
81
00:03:37,629 --> 00:03:42,339
a racetrack finding sites, doing safety
checks the online presence, all that kind
82
00:03:42,339 --> 00:03:44,819
of stuff is a really complex operation.
83
00:03:45,169 --> 00:03:48,199
Share some of, share some
of the unique complexities.
84
00:03:48,589 --> 00:03:50,889
That maybe you didn't think about it.
85
00:03:50,889 --> 00:03:54,969
That Chinese restaurant when you were a
double dog there that, that over the years
86
00:03:54,969 --> 00:03:59,119
you've thought like, huh, I didn't see
that one coming or that's a bigger, bigger
87
00:03:59,119 --> 00:04:00,369
issue than I thought it was going to be.
88
00:04:00,494 --> 00:04:02,524
Yeah, well, I mean, I'll
say a couple of things.
89
00:04:02,534 --> 00:04:06,744
First of all, yeah, it was not intended
to be a business and it has become a
90
00:04:06,744 --> 00:04:12,144
business and, and as shocking as it is to
me and everybody else through no fault of
91
00:04:12,184 --> 00:04:17,679
our own mind and my teams, if you count
motorsport as People sitting in race cars
92
00:04:17,679 --> 00:04:19,329
racing against each other on the track.
93
00:04:19,739 --> 00:04:21,489
This is the biggest racing
series in the world.
94
00:04:21,579 --> 00:04:25,389
We have something on the order
of 7, 000 individuals running
95
00:04:25,389 --> 00:04:26,629
through this program every year.
96
00:04:26,849 --> 00:04:30,719
It is a very complicated business with a
lot of moving parts, but it's important
97
00:04:30,719 --> 00:04:35,219
because it's fun and it's supposed to be
not scary for people and it's supposed
98
00:04:35,219 --> 00:04:37,404
to be safe and I think it is safer.
99
00:04:37,404 --> 00:04:38,734
It's a safe as it can be.
100
00:04:39,024 --> 00:04:41,414
There's a lot of pieces that
you really needed to attend to.
101
00:04:42,074 --> 00:04:45,534
You know, fortunately for me, I
didn't understand any of that.
102
00:04:45,574 --> 00:04:49,684
When I started this thing, it was not
intended to be a big scaled business.
103
00:04:50,104 --> 00:04:53,134
So I came at it with
absolutely no preconceptions.
104
00:04:53,134 --> 00:04:57,274
And I think In a business that
turns out, I was really lucky.
105
00:04:57,324 --> 00:05:01,254
It turns out if you go into it without
any preconceptions, thinking, you know,
106
00:05:01,254 --> 00:05:05,344
how things work, you're in a much better
position to figure them out from first
107
00:05:05,394 --> 00:05:10,384
principles, from best practices, from
your own observations, and not to be
108
00:05:10,384 --> 00:05:14,284
poisoned by what the standard that's
already out there in the industry is.
109
00:05:14,314 --> 00:05:16,034
So I was really lucky with that, that.
110
00:05:16,314 --> 00:05:20,064
I didn't know a goddamn thing about
putting on a motorsport event or
111
00:05:20,214 --> 00:05:22,674
risk management of a motorsport
event or any of those things.
112
00:05:23,054 --> 00:05:24,584
I had to learn that from the ground up.
113
00:05:25,044 --> 00:05:29,004
Challenging things that have surprised me.
114
00:05:29,544 --> 00:05:33,444
You spoke to the complexity,
you know, the it background.
115
00:05:34,004 --> 00:05:37,514
Of a business like this is
weirdly complicated, and I
116
00:05:37,524 --> 00:05:38,404
wouldn't have expected that.
117
00:05:39,004 --> 00:05:46,424
The main reason is because the car in any
event, the car is an individual entity.
118
00:05:46,424 --> 00:05:48,664
It has to be tracked, and
there are certain interactions
119
00:05:48,664 --> 00:05:50,004
of other entities with it.
120
00:05:50,334 --> 00:05:55,224
The person, the driver is an entity,
the team is an individual entity.
121
00:05:55,224 --> 00:05:57,674
That is a group of drivers
in one car in one event.
122
00:05:58,164 --> 00:06:03,464
The event entry is an individual
entity, and all of those entities
123
00:06:03,664 --> 00:06:06,074
have to interact in the I.
124
00:06:06,074 --> 00:06:06,374
T.
125
00:06:06,374 --> 00:06:11,774
Space to get them registered and tracked
and paid and refunded and all of those
126
00:06:11,774 --> 00:06:14,244
things in an incredibly complicated way.
127
00:06:14,244 --> 00:06:15,824
And that's not software.
128
00:06:15,824 --> 00:06:16,764
That is not a tool.
129
00:06:16,969 --> 00:06:21,359
You can go to Oracle or to Salesforce
and say, Hey, give me that off the shelf.
130
00:06:21,689 --> 00:06:26,819
So as much as anything else you know,
we revolve around this very complicated
131
00:06:26,829 --> 00:06:31,909
piece of custom proprietary software
to manage all of these things.
132
00:06:31,909 --> 00:06:36,449
We we're running the biggest series in
the world in terms of asses and seats with
133
00:06:36,519 --> 00:06:38,649
a full time staff of like five people.
134
00:06:38,799 --> 00:06:39,699
And, you know, frankly.
135
00:06:40,239 --> 00:06:41,909
I'm one of those five and
I don't work very hard.
136
00:06:42,159 --> 00:06:45,672
So it's, that was a
real challenge to me.
137
00:06:46,102 --> 00:06:52,492
And I think philosophically
making a competitive event for
138
00:06:52,502 --> 00:06:57,102
fundamentally non competitive
people or to have a non competitive,
139
00:06:57,132 --> 00:06:59,392
even anti competitive environment.
140
00:06:59,392 --> 00:07:00,932
Cause that's what makes beer league fun.
141
00:07:01,752 --> 00:07:03,092
That was really challenging.
142
00:07:03,092 --> 00:07:05,482
And we struggle with that
from day one till now.
143
00:07:05,822 --> 00:07:07,322
How do you keep it fun?
144
00:07:07,697 --> 00:07:12,627
In this context of, you know, motorsport,
any kind of high level sport is
145
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about electing an elite, treating the
elite special lionizing the elite.
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But what we're doing is offering
people a place to go where you're
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rejecting the whole idea of an elite.
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And so that tension has
been really complicated.
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I think well, over the years,
we've done a pretty good job
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of balancing all that stuff.
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But yeah, way more complicated than you
think a bunch of idiots and crap cans
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running around a racetrack would be.
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I love that crap cans.
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So and it makes me immediately think.
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Of the disdain I would have
for the haters out there who
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would be like, Oh, you idiots.
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Yeah.
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Well, there's a lot
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of a thing.
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It's gotta be a
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of, yeah, there's a ton.
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But of course if you're talking about
a business, you really want the 99%
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of the world that has fantasized about
a thing, but never had the resources
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or whatever it was to get there.
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You know, traditional motor sport.
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Is really their customers are that 1
percent who had the rich father had some.
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I'm not going to say crazy talent
because that's a vanishingly small
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subset of how people get into it.
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Had the access, had the desire,
had the lack of fear to do it.
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That's a really small subset, and it's
great that motorsport exists for them.
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But for the 99 percent of the rest
of us, I wasn't that I'm sure you
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weren't that person for the 99
percent of the rest of us who yeah.
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Saw it, fantasized about it, but
really didn't feel I can make
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that mental leap and be involved.
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That's the market.
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That's awesome.
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By the way, I'm thinking to myself
right now, if you're listening to this.
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This is a more interesting
conversation to listen to if
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you have the website pulled up.
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And so I'll strongly encourage everybody
out there who is listening to this to
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pull up not just 24 Hour of Lemons,
but also pull up the 24 Hour of Lemons.
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You know, 24 hours,
plural, 24 hours of lemons.
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And thank you for giving me an
entree to spiff the website.
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Well,
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up 24 Hours of Le Mans as well
and put them side by side on your
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two big screens that you have.
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It's really, it's, the
disparity is fantastic.
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I love it.
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I love it.
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So, you know, on the Path of
Life there are attributes.
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Which help anyone excel.
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And whether that's personally or
professionally there are different
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attributes that, that work on the
personal side and some that work better
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on the professional side, what are some
of the ones that you would say have
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made you successful professionally?
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And what, and do you think they're
the same ones that have made you?
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Relatively successful personally.
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I will say, first of all, because
I think it has to be said with this
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business, I was incredibly lucky.
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You know, I, as I said, I'd start,
I've started other businesses before
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and I'm involved in other businesses.
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Now, this one has been way more
fun, way more compelling, and in
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a lot of ways, way more successful
than anything that I actually.
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put together a 40 page BP and
worked out all the variables.
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So I was incredibly lucky
in this particular case.
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And I've been pretty lucky my whole life.
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I, I think it turns out, and I didn't
know this growing up because the house I
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grew up in, we were, we were journalists.
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We were media people, my family, and
I didn't have any language for this,
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but I'm kind of good at business.
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I mean, I'm organized.
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I kind of get ops on an internal level.
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I'm pretty good at imagining.
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Well, if a what's gonna happen?
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B.
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C.
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D.
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Download the rewind.
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My brain's just kind of wired that way.
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And so, you know, I didn't know
it at the time, but I think I was
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suited for this kind of a role.
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And I was lucky in this
business to stumble into it.
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It's much more complicated.
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It involves a lot more personal
relationships and projecting out
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what's going to happen next year.
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What's going to happen out 10 years,
then other businesses I've been
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involved in just kind of suited to that.
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I have a weird brain, really.
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My brain, and I've learned this
about myself, it seems to focus
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much less on what's in front of me
than I'm curious about, well, how
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did that get there in front of me?
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And what's going to
happen to it after this?
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That's just kind of the way
that my brain has always worked.
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And it means I can never
remember anything in real time.
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But I think I have a pretty good, just
a natural feel for what's Why am I
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seeing what I'm seeing now and what's
the likely outcome of what I'm seeing?
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I think I'm just wired that way.
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That's pretty good wiring.
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Well, I mean, you use the word
luck or you reference having quite
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a bit of luck, not just in this,
but over the course of your life.
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And you also use the word organized
in terms of describing yourself.
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That is I've heard the term
before luck favors the prepared.
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And so I think that organization gives
you more opportunities to be lucky.
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Yeah, I, I really agree.
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And, and, and I try to stress
this with our customers.
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A lot of our customers because they have
watched racing on TV, they've read about
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racing, they see it on the internet.
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They fall into this trap of thinking
that racing is about the car and the car
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is the least important part of racing.
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Racing is 85 percent organization and it's
made maybe 10 percent driving talent and
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it's 5 percent hardware and people come
away thinking it's all about hardware.
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Because what they're exposed to out
in the world is that tiny little
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fraction of teams and drivers and
entities that have been so successful,
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they solved the first two problem.
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They solve the organization problem.
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They've largely solved
the driving problem.
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What they're left with are these.
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Fractional unimportant
differences in the hardware.
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Our guys show up.
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They're not organized.
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They don't even know where
their gas can is They don't
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know where their lug wrench is.
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They're off the track for 45
minutes scratching their head
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like where's my power drill?
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I don't know what's going on and yet
they think oh if I had more horsepower,
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I'd win this thing and that's just
fundamentally wrong Organization in
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all things in life, I think is that's
the foundation that yeah you You put
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yourself in a position to be lucky,
but again, you also have to be lucky.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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So I don't know if you can disclose
this, but who is Who is the most
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famous person to have entered
a vehicle in one of your races?
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Well, actually we do get a lot of
professional and very successful
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race drivers who come through and
some of them come once and say, we
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want nothing And and that's fine.
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They're entitled and they're not wrong.
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And then a handful of them are like,
wow, this is the most fun thing I haven't
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had this much fun since I started most
of those people Do not want their names
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out there because they're contractually
obligated not to do other racing series.
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Travis pastrana is one I can mention
because we had a Sponsorship deal
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with one of his sponsors and so he was
pretty public, you know, the guy Bye
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We've had some Hollywood people come
through the guy that I really had the
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00:14:00,932 --> 00:14:05,702
most fun with was Neil Peart, who died
recently, which is sort of tragic, but
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he's the he was a drummer from Rush.
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He.
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And I'm not a huge Rush
fan, but I'm aware of him.
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He was one of, one of the most talented
drummers of the last century and the
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00:14:18,892 --> 00:14:25,582
sweetest, most enthusiastic, low key
guy, which is show up flew under the
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radar, would hang out and have a hot dog.
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We had great conversations.
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He liked the same kind
of cars that I liked.
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I miss Neil.
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He was really a great customer.
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That's awesome.
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00:14:35,542 --> 00:14:39,922
So as a CEO of a smaller organization,
do you feel like you have to bring
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a greater love or appreciation for
the product or service than say
296
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the CEO of a larger organization?
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Or is that, am I, am I off the mark there?
298
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Well, I've never had a real
job, so I can't speak to being
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in a larger organization.
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I don't really know.
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I think with a smaller organization,
we are all, all of us on the core
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team and let's, you know, there's five
people who were FTEs core team, but.
303
00:15:05,262 --> 00:15:09,532
And there's a dozen prime
contractors who are pretty involved.
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And then every event you're picking
up 60 or 70 humans to run an event.
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So there's a lot of people, but
the core team is definitely small.
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And I think everybody in a small
company like ours understands the
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business in a much more complete way.
308
00:15:25,342 --> 00:15:29,892
Then people in a larger anybody
who's on our weekly stand up calls
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00:15:29,932 --> 00:15:33,882
could step in if I got hit by a bus
and could figure out how to run this
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thing and would do a good job of it.
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And I think that's great.
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I mean, that's really satisfying.
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Are we more committed?
314
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Are we more passionate?
315
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I don't know.
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00:15:43,047 --> 00:15:47,927
I mean, maybe people who show up at
Apple are as steeped as we are in
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00:15:47,927 --> 00:15:52,217
their little piece of it, but I think
that we all have a much more holistic.
318
00:15:52,217 --> 00:15:55,007
I hate the word, but a much more
holistic view of well, what's
319
00:15:55,007 --> 00:15:55,827
going on with the business?
320
00:15:56,067 --> 00:15:57,297
Where's the business going?
321
00:15:57,617 --> 00:15:59,307
You know, what does it
need to operate every day?
322
00:15:59,317 --> 00:16:00,647
And that's pretty fun.
323
00:16:01,697 --> 00:16:04,487
Well, speaking of where the business
is going, you've got races and
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00:16:04,487 --> 00:16:06,827
rallies and big online presence.
325
00:16:06,837 --> 00:16:08,717
Have you looked into anything else?
326
00:16:08,747 --> 00:16:10,537
Maybe things that float or
327
00:16:10,587 --> 00:16:13,957
Yeah, well, we've, we've had some for you.
328
00:16:13,957 --> 00:16:16,177
So this thing has been
going on since 2006.
329
00:16:16,247 --> 00:16:19,237
I mean, it's been a real
business since about 2009.
330
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It became clear in about 2009.
331
00:16:21,827 --> 00:16:24,337
Like, okay, this, this is a better
business than some of the other
332
00:16:24,337 --> 00:16:25,177
things we're doing right now.
333
00:16:25,177 --> 00:16:29,407
But so it's been around a really
long time and in, in all those years.
334
00:16:29,937 --> 00:16:34,187
We have looked at a lot of, I call
them brand extensions and, you know,
335
00:16:34,187 --> 00:16:38,837
we've talked about boats and somebody
suggested 50 horses, which I thought
336
00:16:38,837 --> 00:16:40,437
was a pretty, a pretty funny idea.
337
00:16:40,447 --> 00:16:44,907
But the truth is, and we've gone down
some of those roads and done some
338
00:16:44,907 --> 00:16:47,167
extensions and some of them still exist.
339
00:16:47,237 --> 00:16:50,357
We have a street rally
program that still exists.
340
00:16:50,387 --> 00:16:52,897
We've done international
franchising over the years.
341
00:16:53,247 --> 00:16:56,697
We have an eye racing thing that we
started during COVID that still exists,
342
00:16:57,087 --> 00:17:02,112
but for the most part, What I've
learned is, you know, we have this great
343
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product and we have these really loyal
customers because they like the product.
344
00:17:06,622 --> 00:17:07,662
They like what we're doing.
345
00:17:07,922 --> 00:17:13,112
If you're going to wake up in the morning
and pursue something, Until you have
346
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really found every single customer who
wants that product, focus on your product.
347
00:17:17,662 --> 00:17:22,442
And, and, and, and, and when we have
gone after these brand extensions, I
348
00:17:22,442 --> 00:17:26,482
realized now in retrospect, cause I was
too stupid to realize it at the time.
349
00:17:27,182 --> 00:17:31,762
What we were doing was trying to work
around the fact that we bumped up to the
350
00:17:31,762 --> 00:17:34,152
limits of our own in house marketing.
351
00:17:34,582 --> 00:17:38,007
You know, we had, Exhausted the
ways we knew how to reach more
352
00:17:38,047 --> 00:17:41,217
customers and instead of asking
the right question, which is, well,
353
00:17:41,257 --> 00:17:43,547
okay, we've done what we know.
354
00:17:43,687 --> 00:17:46,467
How do we find someone who can
do more than we know how to do?
355
00:17:46,737 --> 00:17:47,897
That's the right question.
356
00:17:47,897 --> 00:17:49,707
So we can solve more of our real product.
357
00:17:49,997 --> 00:17:52,127
We would say, Oh, well, what
about an electric car rally?
358
00:17:52,127 --> 00:17:52,727
What about this?
359
00:17:52,757 --> 00:17:53,437
What about that?
360
00:17:53,747 --> 00:17:57,757
And I mean, I'm mentioning this
because you guys in your other hat, you
361
00:17:57,757 --> 00:17:59,080
actually helped us solve that problem.
362
00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:00,747
I mean, we found a great solution.
363
00:18:00,902 --> 00:18:03,332
Guide or run a marketing
program through you.
364
00:18:03,342 --> 00:18:03,942
Thank you.
365
00:18:04,222 --> 00:18:06,472
And he's been a wonderful
guy and a wonderful addition.
366
00:18:06,802 --> 00:18:07,992
And that's the right answer.
367
00:18:08,252 --> 00:18:13,112
Eventually, eventually you reach every
customer and you want another product.
368
00:18:13,152 --> 00:18:16,762
But, you know, we're not there and we
won't be there for a long time yet.
369
00:18:17,012 --> 00:18:21,132
So we're looking at how do
you, how do you get more people
370
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into this program that runs?
371
00:18:22,812 --> 00:18:24,192
Well, we know how to do it.
372
00:18:26,157 --> 00:18:27,767
Thanks for the plug you minks.
373
00:18:27,797 --> 00:18:28,547
That's great.
374
00:18:28,557 --> 00:18:29,187
I appreciate
375
00:18:29,347 --> 00:18:29,877
it's true.
376
00:18:29,907 --> 00:18:30,357
It's true.
377
00:18:30,557 --> 00:18:33,437
I, I, I have to say, and I haven't
talked to you much since that hire,
378
00:18:33,867 --> 00:18:36,767
he's been great and he's really
made everybody's life better.
379
00:18:36,767 --> 00:18:37,037
So thanks.
380
00:18:38,057 --> 00:18:38,907
And hopefully listening.
381
00:18:38,937 --> 00:18:39,577
So that's great.
382
00:18:40,047 --> 00:18:42,257
No, hopefully not because I don't
have to give him another race.
383
00:18:43,867 --> 00:18:46,817
so I've done a bunch of
these podcasts and, you know,
384
00:18:46,817 --> 00:18:48,587
typically just the spoiler alert.
385
00:18:48,587 --> 00:18:48,887
Bye.
386
00:18:49,037 --> 00:18:51,397
I share a little bit about some of
the questions that I'm going to ask.
387
00:18:51,397 --> 00:18:54,907
And you know, this, the next question
is perhaps the dumbest question I've
388
00:18:54,907 --> 00:18:58,317
ever asked on any of these things based
on the conversation that we've had.
389
00:18:58,697 --> 00:19:02,167
And it's, if you could have the same
lifestyle you have today doing something
390
00:19:02,187 --> 00:19:04,337
different, what would that be and why?
391
00:19:04,357 --> 00:19:08,947
And I can't imagine the answer is
anything different than what you're doing.
392
00:19:10,257 --> 00:19:12,337
Well, you'd be surprised actually.
393
00:19:12,367 --> 00:19:17,607
I mean, I, listen, I am fully aware of how
fortunate I am and what a great business
394
00:19:17,627 --> 00:19:23,837
this is in a lot of ways and how fun
the people that I work with are, I can't
395
00:19:23,837 --> 00:19:27,167
imagine somebody in a better position, but
your question is a little bit different.
396
00:19:27,227 --> 00:19:28,152
Your question is.
397
00:19:28,292 --> 00:19:31,352
You know, if it were something
different and it's the lifestyle
398
00:19:31,352 --> 00:19:32,482
you're living, what would it be?
399
00:19:32,942 --> 00:19:38,022
And we I thought a lot about
this and weirdly I think it and
400
00:19:38,022 --> 00:19:40,992
nobody's gonna say this in 2024.
401
00:19:41,252 --> 00:19:44,662
Nobody's gonna say this because
it's a bad word, but private equity.
402
00:19:45,142 --> 00:19:47,832
I mean, it's such an
interesting business to me.
403
00:19:48,012 --> 00:19:51,882
I know a lot of people who are in it
and and as much as that is a cursed
404
00:19:51,882 --> 00:19:56,302
word right now, and it's something else
will be the bogeyman a year from now.
405
00:19:57,802 --> 00:20:01,492
The idea that there are all these
really interesting businesses out
406
00:20:01,492 --> 00:20:06,042
there, and a lot of them really need
the kind of skill set that I think I
407
00:20:06,112 --> 00:20:10,952
have and you could preserve a lot of
jobs, and you could preserve a lot of
408
00:20:11,252 --> 00:20:15,542
happy customers just by being able to
touch some of these things and get in.
409
00:20:15,912 --> 00:20:19,832
That's really interesting to me,
and I didn't even know that that
410
00:20:19,832 --> 00:20:21,352
was a possibility out in the world.
411
00:20:21,577 --> 00:20:24,787
Until I was in my, you know, 20s,
I just wasn't exposed to that.
412
00:20:25,607 --> 00:20:28,787
And I think that's where I would've
wound up, in a different life.
413
00:20:29,457 --> 00:20:30,017
Interesting.
414
00:20:30,017 --> 00:20:30,487
I, you're right.
415
00:20:30,487 --> 00:20:31,877
I would not have expected that, but if I!
416
00:20:31,877 --> 00:20:33,297
unpack who you are.
417
00:20:33,752 --> 00:20:37,312
Yeah, but if I unpack who you are and
what you're good at and the things that
418
00:20:37,322 --> 00:20:42,052
you've accomplished and Being able to wear
multiple hats as you obviously have to
419
00:20:42,432 --> 00:20:43,842
It actually makes a little bit of sense.
420
00:20:43,852 --> 00:20:46,682
So I'll give you some credit for
for thinking about that all right,
421
00:20:46,682 --> 00:20:49,912
we get to the the fun part of the
program here where as much as we've
422
00:20:49,942 --> 00:20:52,492
had some conversations about some of
the questions that we were going to
423
00:20:52,492 --> 00:20:53,812
talk about and you're going to answer.
424
00:20:54,202 --> 00:20:58,222
I, I let you ask me a question
and I have no idea what it is.
425
00:20:58,232 --> 00:21:00,422
So I'll do my best not to put my foot
426
00:21:01,412 --> 00:21:03,932
wedge deeply in my mouth,
but we'll see what we can do.
427
00:21:04,007 --> 00:21:05,587
I'm gonna, I'm gonna give you a choice.
428
00:21:05,647 --> 00:21:06,987
Professional or personal?
429
00:21:08,582 --> 00:21:09,372
Oh, it's personal.
430
00:21:09,907 --> 00:21:10,417
Personal.
431
00:21:11,072 --> 00:21:11,522
Yeah.
432
00:21:11,707 --> 00:21:12,217
Alright!
433
00:21:12,357 --> 00:21:18,302
So, I've always had this fantasy I
want to buy a Citroen 2CV, preferably
434
00:21:18,302 --> 00:21:20,182
a real old one with the small motor.
435
00:21:20,292 --> 00:21:24,112
They're all small, but the smallest
motor top speed is like 55 miles
436
00:21:24,112 --> 00:21:24,942
an hour on one of these things.
437
00:21:25,252 --> 00:21:26,752
I want to buy one of
these on the East coast.
438
00:21:27,292 --> 00:21:28,752
It take about three weeks.
439
00:21:29,052 --> 00:21:30,162
You can't go on an interstate.
440
00:21:30,162 --> 00:21:32,822
You'll get cream driving this
thing back to California.
441
00:21:32,912 --> 00:21:33,552
You want to come.
442
00:21:35,022 --> 00:21:35,632
Yeah.
443
00:21:36,702 --> 00:21:42,632
I thought about I don't know that I
have the, my back might give out my, my
444
00:21:42,642 --> 00:21:46,462
brain might give out, but I've always
had a romantic notion of doing something
445
00:21:46,462 --> 00:21:48,022
like that, and there was a guy that I.
446
00:21:48,517 --> 00:21:52,927
Worked with years ago who did one
of these in, I mean, an insane
447
00:21:53,257 --> 00:21:59,947
trek across one of the Akustans
What's the name of that thing?
448
00:21:59,997 --> 00:22:01,967
It's like it's this incredible rally
449
00:22:02,292 --> 00:22:03,102
peaking to Paris.
450
00:22:03,602 --> 00:22:07,072
There, there's one that, you know,
it does what it says on the can.
451
00:22:07,132 --> 00:22:11,222
You start in Peking with these old
cars or Beijing, they call it Peking
452
00:22:11,232 --> 00:22:14,982
to Paris, because that was the historic
name of this rally and they go through
453
00:22:15,002 --> 00:22:19,992
eight or nine stands on their way to
Europe and and they end up in Paris
454
00:22:20,222 --> 00:22:25,542
and yeah, guys are doing this in,
you know, 1938 Fords and 1952 MGs.
455
00:22:25,892 --> 00:22:26,552
I'll do that.
456
00:22:26,762 --> 00:22:28,272
I'll do that instead of the two CV.
457
00:22:29,042 --> 00:22:33,072
Well, I think the the guy that I know
that did this the point was that when
458
00:22:33,072 --> 00:22:39,242
you got to where you Donated the car
to whoever it was that was there.
459
00:22:39,242 --> 00:22:40,062
And I think a lot of the
460
00:22:40,152 --> 00:22:41,378
Oh, I like that.
461
00:22:41,378 --> 00:22:41,786
I
462
00:22:41,786 --> 00:22:42,194
like
463
00:22:42,222 --> 00:22:46,812
ended up being like old retrofitted
ambulances and cars that you could
464
00:22:46,822 --> 00:22:51,652
use like civically within the
township or whatever it might be.
465
00:22:51,652 --> 00:22:54,297
And I think by the time you got to that
place, I'm not so sure that they were.
466
00:22:54,297 --> 00:22:55,987
But the intent was very good.
467
00:22:56,172 --> 00:22:57,482
Yeah, there's always scrap value.
468
00:22:57,482 --> 00:22:57,722
All right.
469
00:22:57,722 --> 00:22:59,002
Well, you figure out what that one is.
470
00:22:59,222 --> 00:23:00,202
That's vaguely familiar.
471
00:23:00,222 --> 00:23:01,712
There's a lot of these kinds of things.
472
00:23:02,062 --> 00:23:03,752
And yeah, I've wanted to do that.
473
00:23:03,992 --> 00:23:08,132
There's one that runs to hold the
perimeter of Africa in old cars.
474
00:23:08,192 --> 00:23:09,092
I would do that one.
475
00:23:09,442 --> 00:23:10,862
I want to, I want to do one of those.
476
00:23:10,862 --> 00:23:12,052
If you're in, we'll do it together.
477
00:23:12,602 --> 00:23:16,162
That would be, I'm going to have to
talk to my, I hope my wife is not
478
00:23:16,162 --> 00:23:20,132
listening to this one because she
may immediately put the kibosh on it.
479
00:23:20,272 --> 00:23:21,972
Hey, by the way, I just curiosity.
480
00:23:22,022 --> 00:23:27,662
Is there any chance you guys get to
France and do one of your races on the
481
00:23:27,662 --> 00:23:30,352
track for the 24 hours of Le Manses?
482
00:23:30,667 --> 00:23:32,817
It's interesting you ask that question.
483
00:23:32,827 --> 00:23:39,587
So about 10 years ago when we started
doing a franchise business and our first
484
00:23:39,587 --> 00:23:44,065
franchisee was Australia, that's our
first franchise territory that that what?
485
00:23:44,365 --> 00:23:49,575
Cooked along fine for a year or two,
and then I got this letter from the, the
486
00:23:49,575 --> 00:23:53,705
ACO, which runs, you know, owns the 24
Hours of Le Mans, and they said, Hey,
487
00:23:53,705 --> 00:23:55,465
dude, like, what the hell are you doing?
488
00:23:55,465 --> 00:23:56,335
You can't do this, right?
489
00:23:56,335 --> 00:23:57,225
We're going to sue your ass.
490
00:23:57,275 --> 00:24:02,435
And, and my first reaction, of course,
was, well, screw them, like, ah,
491
00:24:02,845 --> 00:24:04,695
And, you know, I have this great I.
492
00:24:04,695 --> 00:24:05,085
T.
493
00:24:05,095 --> 00:24:08,735
lawyer who Mark Steiner, who
immediately talked me off of that.
494
00:24:08,735 --> 00:24:11,155
I said, dude, they're not wrong.
495
00:24:11,175 --> 00:24:12,985
Of course, like you
would do the same thing.
496
00:24:12,985 --> 00:24:15,155
And I, and I immediately
realized like, well, yeah, no,
497
00:24:15,165 --> 00:24:16,215
actually they're not wrong.
498
00:24:16,255 --> 00:24:16,825
I get that.
499
00:24:17,015 --> 00:24:20,085
So we wound up working
out a deal with them.
500
00:24:20,565 --> 00:24:24,365
We are able to operate
with our, with our name.
501
00:24:24,695 --> 00:24:28,385
I mean, the premise was if they're
going to fight us in every country.
502
00:24:28,965 --> 00:24:32,085
That kind of IP law is different
country to country, and you know,
503
00:24:32,085 --> 00:24:35,075
we'd win some, we'd lose some, but I
don't want to live my life like that.
504
00:24:35,085 --> 00:24:35,795
That's ridiculous.
505
00:24:36,005 --> 00:24:37,385
And the fact is, they weren't wrong.
506
00:24:37,385 --> 00:24:39,785
They were right to be
worried about confusion.
507
00:24:40,185 --> 00:24:42,215
Particularly in non English
speaking countries, where the
508
00:24:42,215 --> 00:24:43,245
word lemons doesn't mean anything.
509
00:24:43,855 --> 00:24:46,175
So, anyway, we work out a deal with them.
510
00:24:46,535 --> 00:24:46,775
U.
511
00:24:46,775 --> 00:24:50,535
S., Canada, Australia,
New Zealand, no problem.
512
00:24:50,795 --> 00:24:55,370
If we want to work anywhere else,
We have to get their sign off.
513
00:24:55,370 --> 00:24:58,020
And I think that, you know,
sort of implies some sort
514
00:24:58,020 --> 00:24:59,430
of working together piece.
515
00:24:59,980 --> 00:25:02,920
I always, in the back of my mind, I
wanted to get on an airplane and fly to
516
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:05,590
Paris and sit down with those guys and
say, okay, what does that really mean?
517
00:25:05,590 --> 00:25:07,700
Like, do we really want to try to do this?
518
00:25:08,010 --> 00:25:12,630
But as I was saying before, I got
more, I have more immediate problems.
519
00:25:13,755 --> 00:25:17,455
But, you know, I certainly
never expected and we've had I.
520
00:25:17,525 --> 00:25:18,015
P.
521
00:25:18,035 --> 00:25:18,675
We've had I.
522
00:25:18,675 --> 00:25:18,885
P.
523
00:25:18,925 --> 00:25:27,095
Matches now with Mattel and with Disney,
both of which we won very quickly, which I
524
00:25:27,095 --> 00:25:28,875
don't know anybody else who can say that.
525
00:25:30,475 --> 00:25:34,575
And I think I realized very quickly,
boy, life is too short to be sideways
526
00:25:34,575 --> 00:25:36,125
with people about that kind of thing.
527
00:25:36,125 --> 00:25:38,485
I mean, you just don't want
to be in the middle of that.
528
00:25:38,525 --> 00:25:42,975
So I guess that's a long roundabout way
of saying, I doubt we'll be running it.
529
00:25:44,500 --> 00:25:47,930
I'm soon unless I can come up with
another pun as good as this one.
530
00:25:47,930 --> 00:25:50,120
That doesn't make my French friends angry.
531
00:25:50,300 --> 00:25:51,600
I don't think I'll be there.
532
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,890
that's hilarious, but look Jay,
it was an absolute pleasure.
533
00:25:56,300 --> 00:25:57,890
Talking to you like this so
534
00:25:57,900 --> 00:25:58,060
you.
535
00:25:58,060 --> 00:25:58,680
I bet it's
536
00:25:59,830 --> 00:26:01,010
others can listen in.
537
00:26:01,010 --> 00:26:08,090
You are, I, you are absolutely the
chiefest perpetrator I've ever met.
538
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:12,720
And you know, I, you've, you've got me on
the hook for thinking about doing this.
539
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,150
I have buddies that would say
yes in about a nanosecond.
540
00:26:15,490 --> 00:26:18,840
In fact, I should have texted them all
before we started this podcast and see
541
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:22,500
if they all said yes, by the time I
we finished and for those out who are
542
00:26:22,500 --> 00:26:24,880
interested in a racing beer league.
543
00:26:25,305 --> 00:26:27,375
I strongly encourage you
to take a look at this.
544
00:26:27,475 --> 00:26:28,595
It should, it would be a lot of fun.
545
00:26:29,380 --> 00:26:30,740
well, thanks very much.
546
00:26:30,790 --> 00:26:33,190
And I'm going to go
shopping for that to CV now.
547
00:26:33,250 --> 00:26:35,570
So I'll meet you in Rhode
Island with the car.
548
00:26:36,605 --> 00:26:36,995
Excellent.
549
00:26:36,995 --> 00:26:37,505
We'll talk to you soon.
550
00:26:37,505 --> 00:26:37,795
Jay.
551
00:26:37,980 --> 00:26:38,340
Take care.
552
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:38,630
Thanks.
553
00:26:38,830 --> 00:26:39,050
Bye
