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No one can make me feel a certain way.
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This has been something I've had to work on.
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Like, oh, he said that.
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He made me angry.
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No, you know what how I am responding to the thing that he said makes me angry, you know, like the taking responsibility for my own emotion, but also allowing, you know, giving the responsibility back to the other person that they are also responsible for their own emotion.
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And that is like next level work, right?
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Why does the world act like alcohol is the answer, even while it is creating problems of its own?
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On the alcohol myth podcast, we pull back the curtain so you can see what's really going on with alcohol and what life could be like without it.
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We are coaches trained in this naked mind and effective liminal psychology who fell for the alcohol myth for decades.
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Now we help people take back control of their lives by changing their relationship with alcohol from the inside out.
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You don't need to wait for a rock bottom.
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You don't need more willpower.
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You just need a new way to understand what you are feeling and why you are reaching for that next drink.
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So let's dig in is to pause and notice.
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I like to do the weight technique for um fighting a craving, but I think that the weight technique for responding to your loved ones is also really, really effective.
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So the weight technique that I talk about sometimes, and I've I've shared it before on this podcast at W A I T, what am I thinking?
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And build in a little bit of time in between a stimulus from your loved one and how you respond.
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So for instance, to kind of put it back into very concrete domestic bliss, right?
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Your spouse, it's the end of a long day and your spouse busy day or whatever, right?
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Like, is this a right now crisis or is this a get around to it later crisis, right?
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Like just giving yourself a beat, examining how you and are initially feeling, and then seeing if you can assert some kind of control over that, or at least curiosity about where those feelings are coming from ordinarily instructive.
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Yeah, all of that is is brilliant.
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I think the only you have a a safe, loving partner, I mean, just that alone has diffused so many of my emotional spin outs.
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Cause I'm like, huh, okay, then that's something I don't need to worry about, right?
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Like is it a kind of a relief to realize that it's not all about you?
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Oh my gosh, it is such a relief.
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Oh I that story is so relatable because I absolutely used to do the same thing.
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Like, if anything was judged whether or not everything was okay, if my drinking was okay, if anything was okay, frankly, if the people in my life um were having any problems with it or having any problems with me, right?
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And so um it felt like as long as I wasn't harming anyone with my behavior, as long as no one was saying to me, Ellen, this is, you know, I don't really love the way you show up when you're drinking, which almost never happened, I was able to convince myself that um that it wasn't a problem.
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But it's even more insidious than that because what happened was I became so good at presenting that everything was okay with me, that I mean, I wasn't, you know, this isn't true for all people, but I think it's true for a lot of people.
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I wasn't a terrible drunk, you know, like when I drank, I there were exceptions, of course.
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I mean, there were times when I got sloppy and messy, but that was the exception.
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Like I typically managed it in a way that I could still pretty much function.
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I was just, you know, at an altered state, you know, after a bottle of wine, how could you not be?
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But I had been drinking a bottle of wine a night for so long, it wasn't like it it made me fall down or anything, you know.
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So I I it wasn't gonna probably come from the outside in my case, at least maybe not for another decade when things got really, really, really bad.
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So for me to wait for that, I, you know, which is what I was kind of uh subconsciously maybe doing, it it was it would have taken more time.
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And and what I did by kind of needing it to come from the outside of me is that I discounted all of the internal suffering I was experiencing.
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It was like, I was like, well, if everybody else is okay, then it's not a problem.
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Meanwhile, I was waking up at 3 a.m.
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every single night, beating myself up, like crying in my pillow, like, what is wrong with you, Ellen?
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Why can't you get a handle on this?
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Like, I was not okay, you know, but it it wasn't like I I didn't, it was like me not being okay wasn't enough to make a change or something.
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I I don't know.
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I mean, I I'm curious if you experience that because I it's extraordinarily relatable, Ellen.
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I was just thinking about how when we're operating from that place, how incredibly lonely it is because we're so focused on trying to present this front for everybody else so as to not cause anybody else distress.
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We're kind of overly involved with protecting the people around us and taking responsibility, too much responsibility for their well-being in a way that allows us to completely turn a blind eye to what we might need and to how we might be not showing up for ourselves in in those times.
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And it's it's like if I can put all my focus, all my energy on what everybody else needs from me and what everybody else expects from me, then I don't have to look honestly at what's going on right here inside the house.
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And uh, in that way I get to not kind of confront the the mess that's happening right here.
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It reminds me, I was I was actually just speaking to a client about this, but part of my own story with alcohol was you know the big drinking life of the party.
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I, you know, made drinking a lot my part of my personality, and I always looked like I was having fun.
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And so it was shocking to my wife when I got this whole thing when I discovered this naked mind and I started working through this process and started doing my own healing.
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I felt like I needed to tell her just how miserable I had been for years dealing with this.
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And she was upset.
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Like it hurt her that I'd kept from her this huge experience that I was having, and which was the opposite of what I had told myself that I was trying to do, right?
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Like, I don't want to burden her with how low I'm feeling or how scared I am that I find myself drinking way more than I want to.
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And the end result was me isolating myself from the person I care about the most in the world.
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We have this building this invisible wall between us that she doesn't understand, you know, like she's no dummy.
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She knows something's there, but I'm certainly not, you know, like I was the one that built the wall, right?
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Like I'm not gonna knock it down.
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Um, and it's I don't know, it keeps us trapped.
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It's one of those things that alcohol does to us where you know it seems like it's this thing that's going to increase connection or increase fun or help us manage stress or whatever.
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And then on the back end, of course, it always ends up giving us the reverse of what it promised us.
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But oh, yeah.
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I mean, Ditto, everything you said, I I so relatable.
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And as you were saying that, I was I realized that one of the reasons I stayed in that place for so long was because I didn't see a way out that didn't involve some major catastrophic, like declare myself an alcoholic and go to rehab, you know, like I I because I it wasn't like I wasn't trying to cut back, it wasn't like I wasn't trying to drink less and less often.
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I was, I was trying every day, you know.
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And so it was like I had dug in dug myself into this place where I was so alone because I hadn't shared any of this with anyone.
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And and the the only way out I could imagine was something that would be so shocking to the whole system of my family, to the system of my, you know, friendships.
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Like, I how could I go from everything is perfect, which is what I presented all the time, to I need rehab?
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Like it was too, it was like way too uh, you know, the other pendulum.
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And because I didn't know about any other options.
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I mean, this was before I had heard about this naked mind or I had been introduced to the sober cis program or knew that there was an alternate way of changing my relationship with alcohol other than AA.
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And so again, it goes back to why we're doing this podcast, just to like spread the awareness that you don't you don't have to go from that lonely, sad, scared place to declare yourself an alcoholic and go to rehab or commit to going to AA for 30 days in a row or what you know, whatever the the other route is.
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There is another way that is, you know, more way more palatable for me at the time, like especially because I could do it, I did it initially in in secrecy, right?
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Like I started attending calls and talking to coaches and joining online communities, and I didn't share it with anybody in my life because I still had all that shame and all that, I still was, you know, wanted that facade of everything is okay.
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It makes me think about like presenting that facade of everything's okay at the expense of your own interior needs or um being reluctant to present a quote problem to the people that you love.
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And what that underscores to me is like this very intense disregard for self and self-worth.
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And I know that was a huge part of my experience was I had I presented this like very confident um outward appearance, and I, you know, had these accolades and this recognition and professional success, and you know, like all the trappings that come with that, and like all of that.
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But at the end of the day, I had a very low opinion of myself, um, because I well, a, I didn't really know myself, and B, like I think part of my whole thing was drinking, let me just self-obliterate and just not be with myself, and because I didn't know how to be with myself.
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I don't know.
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But the the underlying idea that like you need to hit some kind of egregious rock bottom, or that you don't have a problem unless you're causing harm to other people, just decenters the self and self-worth and the individual experience of this, and it's just another way that alcohol keeps us so isolated, it's another way that kind of it goes in alignment with the idea that oh, I'm the only one out here thinking about this, or I'm the only one out here that feels this way.
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I used to I used to really think that too, right?
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Like I used to really think that there were people who were alcoholics and they went to AA or were drinking under a bridge, and then there were normal drinkers who could just do whatever they wanted, and I looked like a quote normal drinker, but I felt like I should be going to AA, but I knew I couldn't because that wasn't my thing, right?
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And so there are so many people in exactly that situation.
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Um, but you know what?
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We don't talk about it because we don't think that we're worthy of help in those situations, too.
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So I think that's so true.
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And I think uh, you know, when you were talking about how you kind of you didn't have the the the self um, you know, your relationship with yourself or you didn't feel worthy enough maybe to do the things.
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I think I think I also felt that, but I wasn't even aware that I felt that, you know, it was like I would the drinking that I was uh doing was to alleviate uncomfortable feelings, but I never like allowed them to come to the surface enough to understand what they were, you know.
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If I felt uncomfortable, if I felt sadness or grief or loneliness or resentment or something, I I just immediately had a drink.
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And so I never got to understand like why do I feel that?
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Because outwardly, like you, my life was great.
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I mean, I had a loving husband, I had two beautiful daughters, we lived a very nice lifestyle, living overseas as expats.
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I had tons of friends, you know, it didn't like it made no sense to me.
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It was like, so then again, it goes to like blaming and shaming self.
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Like, what could something must be really wrong with you, Ellen?
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That you have all of this and yet you can't be happy enough to enjoy it.
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Like, and and instead of like getting curious, which is what we I learned to do later, like well, that's strange, you know.
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Why is it that you have everything that you ever wanted and you're not happy?
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Instead of being like, what the hell is wrong with you?
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You have everything that you it's a very different approach, right?
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Like when I started to like get curious and and actually like not drink over a feeling to be able to get in touch, get intimate with that feeling.
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What is that feeling?
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Why is that there?
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What is it telling me?
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Where did that come from?
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When did I start feeling?
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You know, all of those things that were so unfamiliar to me and that by the way are are a little hard to do alone.
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Like, I, you know, it's a great when you're in that stage, it's a great time to have a coach or have a community or have a trusted someone that you can talk to about it because, you know, we think that we can talk ourselves or it think ourselves out of anything, but um, because we're smart, I mean, I'm I I consider myself a smart person, so I'm like, I can figure this out, but there's something, there's just something about being able to share it with another human being and have it reflected back that's that just changes things.
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It just does.
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I've experienced it again and again in my own work, on my own self and with clients.
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And it doesn't have to be with a coach, like it could be with anyone, but just like having that, you know, ability to exhale, you know, get it out of the system and into the universe instead of just circulating in the system.
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Um, but I wasn't, you know, I don't think I even really realized all of the feelings of shame, blame, and self-doubt that I had until I took a break, a proper break from alcohol, which I could only do once I got some help.
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So it's like an insidious little cycle there.
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Which you were just talking about with um sharing the experience and connecting with other people, engaging with community.
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It reminds me of the requirement that we have for a sympathetic witness, I think is what they talk about it in like trauma circles of that lets us carry or process through things in ways that we aren't able to do on our own, right?
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When things happen to us, we experience overwhelming emotions in our systems.
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We literally look to other people to help us move that through our bodies, right?
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So that they can see and bear witness to what we're going through.
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And if you're finding that your life is getting smaller and smaller and more isolated and more lonely and more disconnected, then you are in a situation where you can't move through those things and you can't kind of kick start that healing.
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Um, and that's just another thing that alcohol tends to do to a lot of people is it keeps us very isolated, very disconnected.
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Um, and it's it's just part of the trap.
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You know, I was thinking about in pre preparing for this episode, I did have like a relatively presented, like my drinking wasn't really impacting me very well, very much, very badly, right?
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So I I had that.
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And and there were times, of course.
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I mean, alcohol is alcohol.
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Of course, I overdrank to the point sometimes where I acted in an embarrassing way or a silly way or or something.
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And I um I have this one memory.
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We were living in Seoul at the time.
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I mean, this was probably 15 years ago, and um there was a work event for my husband's job that they were there was going to be cocktails and food, and it was like a going-away party for somebody senior.
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And um, so I met with a girlfriend prior to the event, just down the street from the event, and we got our nails done with a bottle of wine.
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So, and this was probably five o'clock, right?
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And so I I hadn't eaten since lunch, probably.
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We split this bottle of wine.
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I probably had more than she did.
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I get into the event, I've had my first drink, maybe a second, and then the speeches start.
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And I, I mean, this is one of my cringe moments that I still think about to this day, right?
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That now I can give myself grace for.
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But it was like the speeches are starting, and I'm having this side conversation because I'm drunk and tipsy and happy, you know.
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I I think I'm funny and all the things, and we're, you know, and I can remember my husband having to grab my arm and shoot me a look, like, this is not the time or place for this business right now, Ellen.
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You know, and and I, I mean, my instant reaction was anger, like your pro, you know, like, but then shame, you know, blame and then shame.
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Like, and then I and then, you know, and then I I did, I reined myself in.
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I was like, oh my God, what you know, it was like one of those moments of like, wow, like this is anyway, it would shatter the image that I had created of perfect, happy family, perfect, happy drinking, no problem, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
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And um, and so as a result of that evening, I came home and I was like, I know what to do.
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Guardrail.
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I will never behave like that at a work event ever, you know?
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I will never, and and that kind of worked, right?
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That kind of worked.
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So it's like again, it's so but what it meant was that I didn't want to go to work events.
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I, you know, I I got nervous around that.
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I I just started drinking more at home because I was like, well, I don't want to embarrass anybody.
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I don't want to embarrass Chris, I don't want to embarrass myself in front of people.
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And so it was an example of like in in order to protect this perfect exterior persona, I'm not hurting anybody, in order to not hurt anybody, we shrink, we shrink our life, we shrink our every our behaviors, we shrink our what we're willing to share.
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And so it just it's like isolate, isolate, isolate in order to protect this perfect image that we have.
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And and I I just and I didn't do that, it didn't cause me to do the internal thing that you're talking about that's so important, right?
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It just was like I found a way to get around it, you know.
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But what it ended up doing was hurt me that much more because it isolated me more.
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I I had all that shame and I didn't know what to do with it.
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I I came up with a solution that, you know, it worked to to perpetuate the the image that was keeping me stuck.
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And I just I don't know, it's just so insidious.
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Well, it like it worked to perpetuate the image at the cost of your own piece, but it also protected the drinking habit, right?
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Like I'm not going to like when you put up a guardrail like that, it's not like uh, hmm, maybe alcohol is the problem or alcohol is to blame.
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No, no, no, no.
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I need to protect my ability to keep drinking alcohol.
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So I'll put this guardrail in place to keep me safe from having an incident that might result in somebody else going, hey, maybe you should quit drinking alcohol.
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Oh my gosh, yes.
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So true.
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Like, thank you for saying that because it's it's yeah, that's exactly what it is, right?
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It's like, and and I did that like for sure.
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Like I I built my life around how to protect this relationship with alcohol that I deemed as essential to my survival, to my identity, to all the things.
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Yeah.
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I was thinking about that with um my own story with how much I was keeping from Beth about how much I was suffering, right?
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Like if I'd told her really how much pain I was going through, I told myself that I didn't want to burden her with that.
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But I think.
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On some level, I also knew that if I shared that with her, then she'd be like, Well, stop, right?
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Like, and then, oh, I'd have a real problem then, right?
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Like, then I'd have to actually confront what alcohol was doing in my life.
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Um, and I was, I was, I was it's so funny because I was talking to Beth about that this morning, and she was like, the other, the other side of it too.
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I was the other side of it too is that she was like, I'm a fully grown woman.
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Like, I, you know, have been navigating difficult things for my entire life.
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I'd have been fine, you know.
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It's like the story that we have to protect other people from our deep darkness, right?
00:22:45.279 --> 00:22:52.079
It's it's almost a little bit like self-aggrandizing just how much of an impact it would have on them.
00:22:52.480 --> 00:23:09.519
But the almost like subconscious desire to protect the drinking habit or to is being served by our more palatable, altruistic um bent to protect the people around us, right?
00:23:09.599 --> 00:23:20.799
Like it's more palatable, it's more altruistic, it's more noble if I'm keeping this to myself because my darkness is too much for anyone else to see, right?
00:23:20.960 --> 00:23:27.440
Like that sounds like heroic, but in actuality, like everybody's gonna be fine.
00:23:27.759 --> 00:23:35.039
And what is that it's allowing you to continue to not confront the things that you might need to confront?
00:23:35.519 --> 00:23:46.319
Um, and I was just so struck by that because it's we're so good at twisting around um our our beliefs and our motivations and things like that.
00:23:46.400 --> 00:23:51.759
And that's another good example of why it's good to have trusted people in your corner to talk through this.
00:23:51.839 --> 00:23:58.480
Because if you have somebody in your corner that can like see that and then be like, hey, are you sure it's not this, right?
00:23:58.559 --> 00:24:08.319
Like you just kind of confronts you with an inconvenient or difficult truth, then it could really shorten the timeline for you for taking back control of your life.
00:24:08.720 --> 00:24:10.240
Oh God, everything you said.
00:24:10.319 --> 00:24:21.680
I I mean, this is something I still it it's a pattern that showed up in my drinking, but that's a pattern that I've I'm I'm realizing now through the continued work that I do on myself.
00:24:21.839 --> 00:24:24.799
Like that's a pattern that I have had since childhood.
00:24:24.880 --> 00:24:30.240
It's a pattern that I had through my drinking, it's a pattern that I have now when I'm not drinking anymore.
00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:40.799
This belief that if I somehow can't resolve things for people or be the person they need me to be, that that's that that person is going to suffer.
00:24:40.880 --> 00:24:43.119
And I don't want anybody I love to suffer.
00:24:43.359 --> 00:24:51.039
And it's such a self-aggrandizing, and I think of myself as being like the opposite of that, right?
00:24:51.200 --> 00:24:54.559
So it's confronting to be like, oh my gosh, like who do you think you are, Ellen?
00:24:54.720 --> 00:24:57.920
You think you can control other people's emotions and feelings?
00:24:58.079 --> 00:25:03.759
And you think because you behave a certain way that they are going to feel happy and loved and cared for.
00:25:03.839 --> 00:25:06.960
And like I I think I can control that, you know?
00:25:07.039 --> 00:25:20.799
And so that, but and that was such a part of the drinking, too, because the thing that I'm learning through all of this is that of course I can't control how someone else feels, no matter what I do.
00:25:21.119 --> 00:25:25.920
We all, the only person who can control how we feel is ourselves.
00:25:26.079 --> 00:25:30.400
Like, and likewise, no one can make me feel a certain way.
00:25:30.559 --> 00:25:32.160
This has been something I've had to work on.
00:25:32.240 --> 00:25:34.400
Like, oh, he said that, he made me angry.
00:25:34.720 --> 00:25:50.640
No, you know, what how I am responding to the thing that he said makes me angry, you know, like the taking responsibility for my own emotion, but also allowing, you know, giving the responsibility back to the other person that they are also responsible for their own emotion.
00:25:50.720 --> 00:25:54.000
And that is like next level work, right?
00:25:54.160 --> 00:26:12.319
That continues because again, like we said on a previous episode, the drinking is not actually the problem, it's the solution we found for the original problem we had, and it's just a crappy solution, and it only works for a certain amount of time and then it stops working.
00:26:12.559 --> 00:26:15.039
So it's just so interesting.
00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:16.000
It really is.
00:26:16.319 --> 00:26:18.640
There's so much to to unpack with all that.
00:26:18.799 --> 00:26:34.319
Like the the idea that we are sovereign unto ourselves and that we don't need to be messing with or taking responsibility for or trying to control other people's emotions is a huge one.
00:26:34.559 --> 00:26:42.880
And then sometimes I'll say this, and I fear that people will hear, like, oh, well, just be a self-centered narcissistic butthead, right?
00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:45.200
Like, obviously, that's not what I'm saying.
00:26:45.440 --> 00:26:52.480
Obviously, we care about the people around us, but we have to know where we start and end and where they start and end.
00:26:53.039 --> 00:26:57.519
And operating within those parameters, like, where are you the most powerful?
00:26:57.680 --> 00:26:59.200
Where are you the most efficacious?
00:26:59.359 --> 00:27:03.039
Where are you the uh the most in control?
00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:05.359
It's it begins and ends right here.
00:27:05.519 --> 00:27:13.440
And it's very, very humbling, it's a big responsibility, um, but it's also really empowering.
00:27:13.759 --> 00:27:15.279
And it's also enough, right?
00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:39.119
Like if you really decided to focus on just taking care of how you showed up, the things that you were thinking, the things that you were saying, the if you took a responsibility, dare I say, for what you were feeling as a result of what other people were doing, you wouldn't have time to be in anybody else's business.
00:27:39.359 --> 00:27:53.279
Um, but it's much more attractive to try to go outside of ourselves and do and be for other people than it is to roll up our sleeves and work where the work really needs to happen.
00:27:53.519 --> 00:27:53.839
Yeah.
00:27:54.079 --> 00:28:04.160
I feel like this part of this conversation deserves a whole nother episode because there's so much in there about like circle of control, right?
00:28:04.319 --> 00:28:07.920
I mean, this idea of who we can only really control ourselves.
00:28:08.079 --> 00:28:10.079
Yes, then we there's a circle of influence.
00:28:10.240 --> 00:28:12.319
We do influence the people around us.
00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:15.119
And then there's things that we'd have no influence over at all, right?
00:28:15.279 --> 00:28:23.359
And we get swayed and moved around and tossed around by those things, and really starting to understand like what where where is my control?
00:28:23.440 --> 00:28:24.480
Where is my influence?
00:28:24.640 --> 00:28:26.240
Where is there no control at all?
00:28:26.319 --> 00:28:35.440
And and bringing the focus like to what you to your point, bring it back to the things that we can control because that's where we have efficacy, you know.
00:28:35.759 --> 00:28:41.440
So it and and there's a lot to to work on right there, right?
00:28:41.599 --> 00:28:47.279
We don't really need to be in everybody else's business working on their stuff, like we just working on our own.
00:28:47.759 --> 00:29:10.720
That's another interesting layer of this whole idea that if my drinking doesn't harm other people, then it's okay or there's no problem, is the way that we show up and how much we do or don't take responsibility for ourselves directly opens up new or different ways for other people to then respond to us.
00:29:11.119 --> 00:29:33.359
And so if I am showing up and showing that it's possible to have self-regard, and if it's possible for me to have self-respect or to not be influenced by the people around us, even the people that we love, then it makes that possible for them too.
00:29:33.519 --> 00:29:39.119
Like, I I think you know, this might be a poor demonstration, but like I've got my microphone cord here.
00:29:39.359 --> 00:29:47.359
If I pull something one way, what naturally happens, it has to snap back, it has to swing the other way.
00:29:47.519 --> 00:29:51.039
If I'm doing something, it invites a certain reaction.
00:29:51.279 --> 00:30:12.160
And so taking care that I'm showing up in my best self and I'm showing up in a way that isn't designed from the top to control or protect other people, then enables them to have a different experience, if that makes sense.
00:30:12.400 --> 00:30:13.359
Uh yes.
00:30:13.519 --> 00:30:21.759
I I was thinking of the example of I I um I'm I've been married a long time, 25, 6 years.
00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:25.920
And my husband has a habit of he exercises regularly.
00:30:26.079 --> 00:30:28.079
He always has, he he prioritizes it.
00:30:28.400 --> 00:30:33.119
It's his mental health thing that he does for himself, although I don't think I even realized that initially.
00:30:33.200 --> 00:30:36.720
I just thought he liked to run and now he likes to cycle.
00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:46.880
And um there was a a lot of time in our relationship that I resented that because he would always do it, always prioritize no matter what was going on.
00:30:47.119 --> 00:30:51.440
And and I made a story about what that meant.
00:30:52.240 --> 00:31:07.119
And then what ended up happening through all of this work is I had this realization that my gosh, he's doing the thing that I probably needed all along, which was to take an hour for myself on a daily basis, whether I wanted to run or do something else, didn't matter.
00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:10.960
Like take to prioritize my needs for an hour every day.
00:31:11.119 --> 00:31:12.319
And he was a much better.
00:31:12.640 --> 00:31:20.319
I mean, the days that he could exercise, he was, you know, a much healthier, better, happier, more productive, you know, just better mood, all the things person.
00:31:20.480 --> 00:31:22.880
Like I it was good that he did that.
00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:34.960
I even I could see that, yet I resented it instead of like when I kind of started doing this work, I was like, oh my gosh, what he's showing me is I also have permission to do that.
00:31:35.119 --> 00:31:40.319
Like I saw it as like, well, you have that, and I can't have it, you know.
00:31:40.640 --> 00:31:45.119
But when we and then, and then I started taking that time for myself.
00:31:45.279 --> 00:31:51.839
And then it like shifted the dynamic of our relationship a little bit, where and and you know, he understood it.
00:31:52.000 --> 00:31:58.640
Like in my mind, I was like, well, if I do that, he's gonna be annoyed or upset or take on have to take on extra responsibility.
00:31:58.799 --> 00:32:01.359
And he was like, Oh my god, I know, isn't it great?
00:32:01.519 --> 00:32:02.960
Like to have an allergy yourself.
00:32:03.279 --> 00:32:05.279
I had built up this whole thing in my head, you know.
00:32:05.440 --> 00:32:12.000
So it's like when when we when we make a shift like that, something's bound to happen, you know.
00:32:12.160 --> 00:32:16.960
I mean, not all of it's gonna be good as a response, but often it's better than we imagine.
00:32:17.039 --> 00:32:25.599
We're always so afraid of the worst case scenario that we're gonna shift something and then things are gonna, you know, all go to heck in a handbasket.
00:32:25.680 --> 00:32:31.599
And but you often it's more like it starts a healing, you know, circle cycle.
00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:44.160
I can't tell you over the years how many things I wanted to do but didn't do because I had this story in my head that Beth would resent me for doing something that she didn't want to do with me, right?
00:32:44.240 --> 00:32:49.759
Like go to a particular concert, go see a certain movie, go like do a thing to myself.
00:32:49.920 --> 00:32:56.240
And then what happened was I would not do those things, not tell her about it, and then I'd feel resentful.
00:32:56.720 --> 00:32:59.680
And she did ask for that, she didn't set that up.
00:32:59.759 --> 00:33:04.240
Uh, but nevertheless, like that's that was the end result.
00:33:04.640 --> 00:33:06.960
Yeah, I yeah, me too.
00:33:07.279 --> 00:33:07.759
Me too.
00:33:07.839 --> 00:33:14.640
And I think it's just it's again, it's that like kind of what you were saying earlier, this kind of self-aggrandized image.
00:33:14.880 --> 00:33:17.839
We have a pattern of and that came from somewhere, you know.
00:33:17.920 --> 00:33:23.839
Like we figured out at an early age that if we did certain things, our family dynamic would, you know, whatever.
00:33:23.920 --> 00:33:24.880
We're not crazy for that.
00:33:24.960 --> 00:33:26.960
Like, and that's something to unpack too.
00:33:27.200 --> 00:33:54.880
Um, but it leads to this false idea that we can somehow control other people's states, you know, and um, and that's a that's a really precarious place to be because we try so hard, because we love people, to create let get get them into what you know to control their state, we want it to be a positive state, right?
00:33:54.960 --> 00:34:05.279
And when so then when anybody gets angry or anybody gets sad or anybody struggles and we feel so out of control, that perpetuates the whole drinking, right?
00:34:05.359 --> 00:34:21.519
So it's just for me in my particular scenario, but I'm 100% sure I'm not alone because I've heard this a again and again and again, like that was a cycle that it unpacking that was an essential piece of the whole puzzle of me.
00:34:21.760 --> 00:34:28.559
Ellen, we love to close out our episodes with something practical for people who make it all the way through here.
00:34:28.800 --> 00:34:40.000
So a big theme that I've picked up in our conversation is how do we stop taking over responsibility for the people in our lives, right?
00:34:40.079 --> 00:35:00.400
Like if if if my own feeling about my drinking is so related to other people, how do I start to, what's a practical way for me this week to start to figure out where I am and where they are and to start to see or experiment with some healthy differentiation?
00:35:00.719 --> 00:35:02.960
That is uh such a good question.
00:35:03.199 --> 00:35:07.039
Um a small practical thing to do.
00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:10.239
I'm gonna punt and give it back to you while I think of something.
00:35:10.559 --> 00:35:22.719
I think that one of the biggest things that you can do when you're starting to learn how to be in healthy differentiation with the people around you is to pause and notice.
00:35:22.960 --> 00:35:37.760
I like to do the weight technique for um fighting a craving, but I think that the weight technique for responding to your loved ones is also really, really effective.
00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:44.480
So the weight technique that I talk about sometimes, and I've I've shared it before on this podcast, the W-A-I-T.
00:35:45.119 --> 00:35:47.119
What am I thinking?
00:35:47.440 --> 00:35:56.719
And build in a little bit of time in between a stimulus from your loved one and how you respond.
00:35:56.960 --> 00:36:04.239
So, for instance, to kind of put it back into very concrete domestic bliss, right?
00:36:04.639 --> 00:36:14.159
Your spouse, it's the end of a long day, and your spouse asks you to do the dishes, and you've been working all day and they haven't been punching a clock.
00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:16.960
Wait, what am I thinking?
00:36:17.360 --> 00:36:20.960
Notice what is the story that's attached to that?
00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:24.159
Um, how are you feeling?
00:36:24.320 --> 00:36:27.280
How are you like initially primed to respond?
00:36:28.800 --> 00:36:34.960
Do you need to um do you need to immediately act on those feelings?
00:36:35.119 --> 00:36:44.480
You know, like can you is there a better, more healthful for the relationship um way to show up through that encounter, right?
00:36:44.639 --> 00:36:51.679
Like, can you get to a spot of uh thoughtful, compassionate understanding for where they're coming from?
00:36:52.480 --> 00:36:56.719
Is this something that you do need to say something about?
00:36:56.960 --> 00:37:01.840
Or like is it as charged, maybe as you might be thinking it is?
00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:10.239
Does your partner understand the context with which you're receiving that information in the context of your busy day or whatever, right?
00:37:10.320 --> 00:37:15.679
Like, is this a right now crisis or is this a get around to it later crisis, right?
00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:33.199
Like just giving yourself a beat, examining how you are initially feeling, and then seeing if you can assert some kind of control over that or at least curiosity about where those feelings are coming from can be extraordinarily instructive.
00:37:34.400 --> 00:37:36.880
Yeah, all of that is is brilliant.
00:37:37.039 --> 00:37:52.079
I I think the only thing that I would like a little thing that I could add to that that might be useful is I I I used to, and it still happens sometimes, like my husband would be in a mood about something, right?
00:37:52.239 --> 00:38:04.400
And because I have a pattern of believing that I can am responsible for and can control other people's moods, I would create a story that, oh God, what did I do that irritated him?
00:38:04.559 --> 00:38:07.119
Like, what can I do to fix this?
00:38:07.440 --> 00:38:16.320
And a coach actually shared, you know, shared this observation with me that you know, do you really know what's going on with him?
00:38:16.480 --> 00:38:23.599
Like just because he walked in the room and he is behaving, like so like ask yourself, do I really know?
00:38:23.760 --> 00:38:24.800
Like, I believe all that.
00:38:25.119 --> 00:38:29.280
And a really simple thing to do is ask.
00:38:29.679 --> 00:38:37.199
Like, so I have started being like, Wow, you you seem you know, a little on on edge or ups upset or irritated.
00:38:37.280 --> 00:38:38.960
Like, what's going on?
00:38:39.119 --> 00:38:42.719
Did I is it something to do with me, or is it something to do with something else?
00:38:42.880 --> 00:38:46.880
And I mean, nine times out of ten, it's completely unrelated to me.
00:38:47.039 --> 00:38:48.800
And I have made it all about me, you know.
00:38:48.880 --> 00:38:56.960
Oh, I must have done something, and you know, maybe just got off the phone with someone, or maybe he is tired, maybe his foot hurts, who knows what it is, right?
00:38:57.039 --> 00:38:58.960
And I am constantly making it all about me.
00:38:59.119 --> 00:39:06.320
So, you know, just to take a beat and be like, hmm, do I really know what this is about?
00:39:06.480 --> 00:39:13.920
And can I, you know, assuming you have a a safe, loving partner, can I just get some clarity and and ask?
00:39:14.079 --> 00:39:22.960
And it has, I mean, just that alone has diffused so many of my emotional spin outs.
00:39:23.039 --> 00:39:26.400
Because I'm like, huh, okay, then that's something I don't need to worry about, right?
00:39:26.559 --> 00:39:31.199
Like, is it a kind of a relief to realize that it's not all about you?
00:39:31.440 --> 00:39:33.519
Oh my gosh, it is such a relief.
00:39:33.679 --> 00:39:39.280
Oh, I that story is so relatable because I absolutely used to do the same thing.
00:39:39.360 --> 00:39:43.199
Like, if anything was if there was a furrow on the brow, right?
00:39:43.280 --> 00:39:47.760
I'm like, oh my god, this is it's definitely about me.
00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:52.480
I wonder what I did, and then it would also be like, but I'm great.
00:39:52.639 --> 00:39:56.800
Why is she mad at me with all the things that I do?
00:39:57.039 --> 00:40:00.000
She doesn't appreciate me, and then I'm in a mood, right?
00:40:00.159 --> 00:40:01.760
Like, and guess what?
00:40:01.840 --> 00:40:03.760
It had nothing to do with any of that, right?
00:40:03.840 --> 00:40:05.519
Like, it's so ridiculous.
00:40:05.760 --> 00:40:09.360
And so it's become a norm for our it's become a norm for our relationship.
00:40:09.599 --> 00:40:19.599
If one of us like, we'll just say, Yeah, I'm in kind of a funky mood, or like if we don't know, like, hey, is this about did I do anything wrong, or you know, do you want to talk about anything?
00:40:19.760 --> 00:40:22.000
No, it's something else cool, right?
00:40:22.159 --> 00:40:25.440
Like, I I'm here for you if you want to talk about it, right?
00:40:25.519 --> 00:40:29.440
Like, and it's just that that norm, completely revolutionary.
00:40:29.760 --> 00:40:37.199
Yeah, and that takes practice, you know, you're not gonna get it right, it might be messy in the beginning, it might be a little uncomfortable, it might be, but like anything, it takes practice.
00:40:37.360 --> 00:40:48.639
And I was just gonna say this something drinking complicates that even more because quite often we we immediately go to, I must have done something when I was drinking, I must have said something, I'm worried about our drinking.
00:40:48.800 --> 00:40:51.360
You know, come to find out my husband wasn't worried about my drinking at all, right?
00:40:51.440 --> 00:40:54.480
Like, so I all of that that I had built up.
00:40:54.719 --> 00:41:01.360
And so, yeah, again, just just gently with curiosity, ask.
00:41:03.199 --> 00:41:04.000
Such good advice.
00:41:04.079 --> 00:41:04.719
All right, Ellen.
00:41:04.800 --> 00:41:08.320
That's it for this week's episode of the Alcohol Myth Podcast.
00:41:08.480 --> 00:41:10.000
Thank you all for listening.
00:41:10.159 --> 00:41:12.000
Um, please send us an email.
00:41:12.639 --> 00:41:16.719
Uh and uh yeah, comment, like, share, subscribe, all that good stuff.
00:41:16.800 --> 00:41:18.559
Uh, we appreciate your listening.
00:41:18.719 --> 00:41:20.719
And till next week, I've been Jonathan.
00:41:20.880 --> 00:41:21.599
And I've been Ellen.
00:41:21.760 --> 00:41:23.119
Great to be with you.
00:41:23.440 --> 00:41:25.760
Thanks for listening to the Alcohol Myth Podcast.
00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:29.360
If this episode sparked something for you, we'd love to hear about it.
00:41:29.599 --> 00:41:35.760
Send your questions, stories, or ideas for future episodes to thealcoholmyth at gmail.com.
00:41:36.000 --> 00:41:37.360
We read every message.
00:41:37.519 --> 00:41:38.239
We really do.
00:41:38.480 --> 00:41:39.679
Take good care of yourself.
00:41:39.840 --> 00:41:41.360
We'll see you next time.
00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:02.080
No one can make me feel a certain way.
00:00:02.160 --> 00:00:03.759
This has been something I've had to work on.
00:00:03.839 --> 00:00:04.879
Like, oh, he said that.
00:00:05.040 --> 00:00:06.080
He made me angry.
00:00:06.320 --> 00:00:22.239
No, you know what how I am responding to the thing that he said makes me angry, you know, like the taking responsibility for my own emotion, but also allowing, you know, giving the responsibility back to the other person that they are also responsible for their own emotion.
00:00:22.399 --> 00:00:25.600
And that is like next level work, right?
00:00:25.839 --> 00:00:29.920
Why does the world act like alcohol is the answer, even while it is creating problems of its own?
00:00:30.160 --> 00:00:36.799
On the alcohol myth podcast, we pull back the curtain so you can see what's really going on with alcohol and what life could be like without it.
00:00:37.039 --> 00:00:43.280
We are coaches trained in this naked mind and effective liminal psychology who fell for the alcohol myth for decades.
00:00:43.520 --> 00:00:48.799
Now we help people take back control of their lives by changing their relationship with alcohol from the inside out.
00:00:49.039 --> 00:00:50.880
You don't need to wait for a rock bottom.
00:00:51.039 --> 00:00:52.640
You don't need more willpower.
00:00:52.799 --> 00:00:57.439
You just need a new way to understand what you are feeling and why you are reaching for that next drink.
00:00:57.679 --> 00:01:08.400
So let's dig in is to pause and notice.
00:01:08.560 --> 00:01:23.439
I like to do the weight technique for um fighting a craving, but I think that the weight technique for responding to your loved ones is also really, really effective.
00:01:23.680 --> 00:01:32.719
So the weight technique that I talk about sometimes, and I've I've shared it before on this podcast at W A I T, what am I thinking?
00:01:33.120 --> 00:01:42.400
And build in a little bit of time in between a stimulus from your loved one and how you respond.
00:01:42.640 --> 00:01:49.920
So for instance, to kind of put it back into very concrete domestic bliss, right?
00:01:50.239 --> 00:01:55.519
Your spouse, it's the end of a long day and your spouse busy day or whatever, right?
00:01:55.599 --> 00:02:00.959
Like, is this a right now crisis or is this a get around to it later crisis, right?
00:02:01.120 --> 00:02:17.360
Like just giving yourself a beat, examining how you and are initially feeling, and then seeing if you can assert some kind of control over that, or at least curiosity about where those feelings are coming from ordinarily instructive.
00:02:18.560 --> 00:02:20.960
Yeah, all of that is is brilliant.
00:02:21.280 --> 00:02:32.560
I think the only you have a a safe, loving partner, I mean, just that alone has diffused so many of my emotional spin outs.
00:02:32.639 --> 00:02:36.080
Cause I'm like, huh, okay, then that's something I don't need to worry about, right?
00:02:36.159 --> 00:02:40.800
Like is it a kind of a relief to realize that it's not all about you?
00:02:41.120 --> 00:02:43.120
Oh my gosh, it is such a relief.
00:02:43.280 --> 00:02:48.879
Oh I that story is so relatable because I absolutely used to do the same thing.
00:02:48.960 --> 00:03:05.599
Like, if anything was judged whether or not everything was okay, if my drinking was okay, if anything was okay, frankly, if the people in my life um were having any problems with it or having any problems with me, right?
00:03:05.759 --> 00:03:31.439
And so um it felt like as long as I wasn't harming anyone with my behavior, as long as no one was saying to me, Ellen, this is, you know, I don't really love the way you show up when you're drinking, which almost never happened, I was able to convince myself that um that it wasn't a problem.
00:03:31.520 --> 00:03:46.159
But it's even more insidious than that because what happened was I became so good at presenting that everything was okay with me, that I mean, I wasn't, you know, this isn't true for all people, but I think it's true for a lot of people.
00:03:46.319 --> 00:03:52.879
I wasn't a terrible drunk, you know, like when I drank, I there were exceptions, of course.
00:03:52.960 --> 00:03:56.800
I mean, there were times when I got sloppy and messy, but that was the exception.
00:03:56.960 --> 00:04:03.199
Like I typically managed it in a way that I could still pretty much function.
00:04:03.360 --> 00:04:08.960
I was just, you know, at an altered state, you know, after a bottle of wine, how could you not be?
00:04:09.120 --> 00:04:15.039
But I had been drinking a bottle of wine a night for so long, it wasn't like it it made me fall down or anything, you know.
00:04:15.120 --> 00:04:26.480
So I I it wasn't gonna probably come from the outside in my case, at least maybe not for another decade when things got really, really, really bad.
00:04:26.800 --> 00:04:37.680
So for me to wait for that, I, you know, which is what I was kind of uh subconsciously maybe doing, it it was it would have taken more time.
00:04:37.759 --> 00:04:47.279
And and what I did by kind of needing it to come from the outside of me is that I discounted all of the internal suffering I was experiencing.
00:04:47.439 --> 00:04:50.959
It was like, I was like, well, if everybody else is okay, then it's not a problem.
00:04:51.120 --> 00:04:53.839
Meanwhile, I was waking up at 3 a.m.
00:04:54.079 --> 00:04:59.120
every single night, beating myself up, like crying in my pillow, like, what is wrong with you, Ellen?
00:04:59.199 --> 00:05:00.639
Why can't you get a handle on this?
00:05:00.800 --> 00:05:11.680
Like, I was not okay, you know, but it it wasn't like I I didn't, it was like me not being okay wasn't enough to make a change or something.
00:05:11.839 --> 00:05:12.639
I I don't know.
00:05:12.800 --> 00:05:19.199
I mean, I I'm curious if you experience that because I it's extraordinarily relatable, Ellen.
00:05:19.279 --> 00:05:38.399
I was just thinking about how when we're operating from that place, how incredibly lonely it is because we're so focused on trying to present this front for everybody else so as to not cause anybody else distress.
00:05:38.560 --> 00:06:00.319
We're kind of overly involved with protecting the people around us and taking responsibility, too much responsibility for their well-being in a way that allows us to completely turn a blind eye to what we might need and to how we might be not showing up for ourselves in in those times.
00:06:00.720 --> 00:06:18.240
And it's it's like if I can put all my focus, all my energy on what everybody else needs from me and what everybody else expects from me, then I don't have to look honestly at what's going on right here inside the house.
00:06:18.560 --> 00:06:26.800
And uh, in that way I get to not kind of confront the the mess that's happening right here.
00:06:27.279 --> 00:06:40.959
It reminds me, I was I was actually just speaking to a client about this, but part of my own story with alcohol was you know the big drinking life of the party.
00:06:41.279 --> 00:06:47.120
I, you know, made drinking a lot my part of my personality, and I always looked like I was having fun.
00:06:47.279 --> 00:06:58.879
And so it was shocking to my wife when I got this whole thing when I discovered this naked mind and I started working through this process and started doing my own healing.
00:06:59.199 --> 00:07:06.879
I felt like I needed to tell her just how miserable I had been for years dealing with this.
00:07:06.959 --> 00:07:08.639
And she was upset.
00:07:08.800 --> 00:07:21.600
Like it hurt her that I'd kept from her this huge experience that I was having, and which was the opposite of what I had told myself that I was trying to do, right?
00:07:21.680 --> 00:07:32.879
Like, I don't want to burden her with how low I'm feeling or how scared I am that I find myself drinking way more than I want to.
00:07:33.360 --> 00:07:41.519
And the end result was me isolating myself from the person I care about the most in the world.
00:07:41.759 --> 00:07:49.279
We have this building this invisible wall between us that she doesn't understand, you know, like she's no dummy.
00:07:49.439 --> 00:07:54.079
She knows something's there, but I'm certainly not, you know, like I was the one that built the wall, right?
00:07:54.160 --> 00:07:55.839
Like I'm not gonna knock it down.
00:07:56.160 --> 00:07:59.519
Um, and it's I don't know, it keeps us trapped.
00:07:59.600 --> 00:08:10.959
It's one of those things that alcohol does to us where you know it seems like it's this thing that's going to increase connection or increase fun or help us manage stress or whatever.
00:08:11.040 --> 00:08:16.480
And then on the back end, of course, it always ends up giving us the reverse of what it promised us.
00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:18.959
But oh, yeah.
00:08:19.120 --> 00:08:23.040
I mean, Ditto, everything you said, I I so relatable.
00:08:23.199 --> 00:08:49.519
And as you were saying that, I was I realized that one of the reasons I stayed in that place for so long was because I didn't see a way out that didn't involve some major catastrophic, like declare myself an alcoholic and go to rehab, you know, like I I because I it wasn't like I wasn't trying to cut back, it wasn't like I wasn't trying to drink less and less often.
00:08:49.679 --> 00:08:52.480
I was, I was trying every day, you know.
00:08:52.720 --> 00:09:04.240
And so it was like I had dug in dug myself into this place where I was so alone because I hadn't shared any of this with anyone.
00:09:04.960 --> 00:09:17.360
And and the the only way out I could imagine was something that would be so shocking to the whole system of my family, to the system of my, you know, friendships.
00:09:17.519 --> 00:09:24.559
Like, I how could I go from everything is perfect, which is what I presented all the time, to I need rehab?
00:09:24.720 --> 00:09:30.960
Like it was too, it was like way too uh, you know, the other pendulum.
00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:34.320
And because I didn't know about any other options.
00:09:34.399 --> 00:09:44.240
I mean, this was before I had heard about this naked mind or I had been introduced to the sober cis program or knew that there was an alternate way of changing my relationship with alcohol other than AA.
00:09:44.399 --> 00:10:02.480
And so again, it goes back to why we're doing this podcast, just to like spread the awareness that you don't you don't have to go from that lonely, sad, scared place to declare yourself an alcoholic and go to rehab or commit to going to AA for 30 days in a row or what you know, whatever the the other route is.
00:10:02.639 --> 00:10:14.320
There is another way that is, you know, more way more palatable for me at the time, like especially because I could do it, I did it initially in in secrecy, right?
00:10:14.399 --> 00:10:28.879
Like I started attending calls and talking to coaches and joining online communities, and I didn't share it with anybody in my life because I still had all that shame and all that, I still was, you know, wanted that facade of everything is okay.
00:10:29.120 --> 00:10:45.600
It makes me think about like presenting that facade of everything's okay at the expense of your own interior needs or um being reluctant to present a quote problem to the people that you love.
00:10:46.159 --> 00:10:54.879
And what that underscores to me is like this very intense disregard for self and self-worth.
00:10:55.360 --> 00:11:14.720
And I know that was a huge part of my experience was I had I presented this like very confident um outward appearance, and I, you know, had these accolades and this recognition and professional success, and you know, like all the trappings that come with that, and like all of that.
00:11:15.519 --> 00:11:38.480
But at the end of the day, I had a very low opinion of myself, um, because I well, a, I didn't really know myself, and B, like I think part of my whole thing was drinking, let me just self-obliterate and just not be with myself, and because I didn't know how to be with myself.
00:11:38.559 --> 00:11:39.120
I don't know.
00:11:39.360 --> 00:12:14.399
But the the underlying idea that like you need to hit some kind of egregious rock bottom, or that you don't have a problem unless you're causing harm to other people, just decenters the self and self-worth and the individual experience of this, and it's just another way that alcohol keeps us so isolated, it's another way that kind of it goes in alignment with the idea that oh, I'm the only one out here thinking about this, or I'm the only one out here that feels this way.
00:12:14.559 --> 00:12:16.720
I used to I used to really think that too, right?
00:12:16.799 --> 00:12:37.120
Like I used to really think that there were people who were alcoholics and they went to AA or were drinking under a bridge, and then there were normal drinkers who could just do whatever they wanted, and I looked like a quote normal drinker, but I felt like I should be going to AA, but I knew I couldn't because that wasn't my thing, right?
00:12:37.360 --> 00:12:40.559
And so there are so many people in exactly that situation.
00:12:40.799 --> 00:12:42.240
Um, but you know what?
00:12:42.320 --> 00:12:49.919
We don't talk about it because we don't think that we're worthy of help in those situations, too.
00:12:50.080 --> 00:12:52.159
So I think that's so true.
00:12:52.240 --> 00:13:07.200
And I think uh, you know, when you were talking about how you kind of you didn't have the the the self um, you know, your relationship with yourself or you didn't feel worthy enough maybe to do the things.
00:13:07.360 --> 00:13:28.879
I think I think I also felt that, but I wasn't even aware that I felt that, you know, it was like I would the drinking that I was uh doing was to alleviate uncomfortable feelings, but I never like allowed them to come to the surface enough to understand what they were, you know.
00:13:29.039 --> 00:13:36.799
If I felt uncomfortable, if I felt sadness or grief or loneliness or resentment or something, I I just immediately had a drink.
00:13:36.879 --> 00:13:42.000
And so I never got to understand like why do I feel that?
00:13:42.159 --> 00:13:44.639
Because outwardly, like you, my life was great.
00:13:44.720 --> 00:13:52.960
I mean, I had a loving husband, I had two beautiful daughters, we lived a very nice lifestyle, living overseas as expats.
00:13:53.120 --> 00:13:58.240
I had tons of friends, you know, it didn't like it made no sense to me.
00:13:58.320 --> 00:14:03.519
It was like, so then again, it goes to like blaming and shaming self.
00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:06.639
Like, what could something must be really wrong with you, Ellen?
00:14:06.720 --> 00:14:11.279
That you have all of this and yet you can't be happy enough to enjoy it.
00:14:11.440 --> 00:14:18.159
Like, and and instead of like getting curious, which is what we I learned to do later, like well, that's strange, you know.
00:14:18.240 --> 00:14:22.320
Why is it that you have everything that you ever wanted and you're not happy?
00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:25.840
Instead of being like, what the hell is wrong with you?
00:14:26.080 --> 00:14:29.279
You have everything that you it's a very different approach, right?
00:14:29.440 --> 00:14:39.759
Like when I started to like get curious and and actually like not drink over a feeling to be able to get in touch, get intimate with that feeling.
00:14:39.919 --> 00:14:40.639
What is that feeling?
00:14:40.720 --> 00:14:41.440
Why is that there?
00:14:41.519 --> 00:14:42.240
What is it telling me?
00:14:42.320 --> 00:14:43.039
Where did that come from?
00:14:43.200 --> 00:14:44.159
When did I start feeling?
00:14:44.240 --> 00:14:51.200
You know, all of those things that were so unfamiliar to me and that by the way are are a little hard to do alone.
00:14:51.360 --> 00:15:18.320
Like, I, you know, it's a great when you're in that stage, it's a great time to have a coach or have a community or have a trusted someone that you can talk to about it because, you know, we think that we can talk ourselves or it think ourselves out of anything, but um, because we're smart, I mean, I'm I I consider myself a smart person, so I'm like, I can figure this out, but there's something, there's just something about being able to share it with another human being and have it reflected back that's that just changes things.
00:15:18.559 --> 00:15:19.279
It just does.
00:15:19.360 --> 00:15:23.519
I've experienced it again and again in my own work, on my own self and with clients.
00:15:23.679 --> 00:15:38.720
And it doesn't have to be with a coach, like it could be with anyone, but just like having that, you know, ability to exhale, you know, get it out of the system and into the universe instead of just circulating in the system.
00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:53.360
Um, but I wasn't, you know, I don't think I even really realized all of the feelings of shame, blame, and self-doubt that I had until I took a break, a proper break from alcohol, which I could only do once I got some help.
00:15:53.759 --> 00:15:55.840
So it's like an insidious little cycle there.
00:15:56.159 --> 00:16:03.759
Which you were just talking about with um sharing the experience and connecting with other people, engaging with community.
00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:23.919
It reminds me of the requirement that we have for a sympathetic witness, I think is what they talk about it in like trauma circles of that lets us carry or process through things in ways that we aren't able to do on our own, right?
00:16:24.080 --> 00:16:29.360
When things happen to us, we experience overwhelming emotions in our systems.
00:16:30.159 --> 00:16:37.759
We literally look to other people to help us move that through our bodies, right?
00:16:37.840 --> 00:16:44.080
So that they can see and bear witness to what we're going through.
00:16:44.399 --> 00:17:01.519
And if you're finding that your life is getting smaller and smaller and more isolated and more lonely and more disconnected, then you are in a situation where you can't move through those things and you can't kind of kick start that healing.
00:17:01.679 --> 00:17:09.680
Um, and that's just another thing that alcohol tends to do to a lot of people is it keeps us very isolated, very disconnected.
00:17:09.839 --> 00:17:12.880
Um, and it's it's just part of the trap.
00:17:13.119 --> 00:17:24.480
You know, I was thinking about in pre preparing for this episode, I did have like a relatively presented, like my drinking wasn't really impacting me very well, very much, very badly, right?
00:17:24.640 --> 00:17:25.599
So I I had that.
00:17:25.759 --> 00:17:28.319
And and there were times, of course.
00:17:28.400 --> 00:17:29.519
I mean, alcohol is alcohol.
00:17:29.599 --> 00:17:35.200
Of course, I overdrank to the point sometimes where I acted in an embarrassing way or a silly way or or something.
00:17:35.440 --> 00:17:38.400
And I um I have this one memory.
00:17:38.559 --> 00:17:41.359
We were living in Seoul at the time.
00:17:41.519 --> 00:17:55.200
I mean, this was probably 15 years ago, and um there was a work event for my husband's job that they were there was going to be cocktails and food, and it was like a going-away party for somebody senior.
00:17:55.519 --> 00:18:03.920
And um, so I met with a girlfriend prior to the event, just down the street from the event, and we got our nails done with a bottle of wine.
00:18:04.400 --> 00:18:06.480
So, and this was probably five o'clock, right?
00:18:06.640 --> 00:18:10.720
And so I I hadn't eaten since lunch, probably.
00:18:10.799 --> 00:18:12.240
We split this bottle of wine.
00:18:12.319 --> 00:18:14.400
I probably had more than she did.
00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:19.839
I get into the event, I've had my first drink, maybe a second, and then the speeches start.
00:18:20.559 --> 00:18:25.519
And I, I mean, this is one of my cringe moments that I still think about to this day, right?
00:18:25.599 --> 00:18:27.599
That now I can give myself grace for.
00:18:27.680 --> 00:18:33.200
But it was like the speeches are starting, and I'm having this side conversation because I'm drunk and tipsy and happy, you know.
00:18:33.279 --> 00:18:44.000
I I think I'm funny and all the things, and we're, you know, and I can remember my husband having to grab my arm and shoot me a look, like, this is not the time or place for this business right now, Ellen.
00:18:44.079 --> 00:18:52.480
You know, and and I, I mean, my instant reaction was anger, like your pro, you know, like, but then shame, you know, blame and then shame.
00:18:52.559 --> 00:18:57.519
Like, and then I and then, you know, and then I I did, I reined myself in.
00:18:57.599 --> 00:19:11.759
I was like, oh my God, what you know, it was like one of those moments of like, wow, like this is anyway, it would shatter the image that I had created of perfect, happy family, perfect, happy drinking, no problem, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:19:12.480 --> 00:19:18.960
And um, and so as a result of that evening, I came home and I was like, I know what to do.
00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:20.160
Guardrail.
00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:24.559
I will never behave like that at a work event ever, you know?
00:19:24.880 --> 00:19:28.160
I will never, and and that kind of worked, right?
00:19:28.240 --> 00:19:28.880
That kind of worked.
00:19:28.960 --> 00:19:35.119
So it's like again, it's so but what it meant was that I didn't want to go to work events.
00:19:35.359 --> 00:19:38.480
I, you know, I I got nervous around that.
00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:42.400
I I just started drinking more at home because I was like, well, I don't want to embarrass anybody.
00:19:42.480 --> 00:19:45.759
I don't want to embarrass Chris, I don't want to embarrass myself in front of people.
00:19:45.920 --> 00:20:02.079
And so it was an example of like in in order to protect this perfect exterior persona, I'm not hurting anybody, in order to not hurt anybody, we shrink, we shrink our life, we shrink our every our behaviors, we shrink our what we're willing to share.
00:20:02.319 --> 00:20:08.880
And so it just it's like isolate, isolate, isolate in order to protect this perfect image that we have.
00:20:09.039 --> 00:20:19.599
And and I I just and I didn't do that, it didn't cause me to do the internal thing that you're talking about that's so important, right?
00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:26.079
It just was like I found a way to get around it, you know.
00:20:26.799 --> 00:20:31.759
But what it ended up doing was hurt me that much more because it isolated me more.
00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:34.319
I I had all that shame and I didn't know what to do with it.
00:20:34.400 --> 00:20:42.559
I I came up with a solution that, you know, it worked to to perpetuate the the image that was keeping me stuck.
00:20:42.799 --> 00:20:48.079
And I just I don't know, it's just so insidious.
00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:57.680
Well, it like it worked to perpetuate the image at the cost of your own piece, but it also protected the drinking habit, right?
00:20:57.839 --> 00:21:07.200
Like I'm not going to like when you put up a guardrail like that, it's not like uh, hmm, maybe alcohol is the problem or alcohol is to blame.
00:21:07.359 --> 00:21:08.319
No, no, no, no.
00:21:09.200 --> 00:21:12.319
I need to protect my ability to keep drinking alcohol.
00:21:12.400 --> 00:21:21.839
So I'll put this guardrail in place to keep me safe from having an incident that might result in somebody else going, hey, maybe you should quit drinking alcohol.
00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:23.200
Oh my gosh, yes.
00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:24.079
So true.
00:21:24.400 --> 00:21:28.880
Like, thank you for saying that because it's it's yeah, that's exactly what it is, right?
00:21:28.960 --> 00:21:32.000
It's like, and and I did that like for sure.
00:21:32.160 --> 00:21:42.319
Like I I built my life around how to protect this relationship with alcohol that I deemed as essential to my survival, to my identity, to all the things.
00:21:42.640 --> 00:21:43.119
Yeah.
00:21:43.440 --> 00:21:52.240
I was thinking about that with um my own story with how much I was keeping from Beth about how much I was suffering, right?
00:21:52.319 --> 00:21:59.200
Like if I'd told her really how much pain I was going through, I told myself that I didn't want to burden her with that.
00:21:59.359 --> 00:21:59.759
But I think.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:07.359
On some level, I also knew that if I shared that with her, then she'd be like, Well, stop, right?
00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:11.039
Like, and then, oh, I'd have a real problem then, right?
00:22:11.119 --> 00:22:15.119
Like, then I'd have to actually confront what alcohol was doing in my life.
00:22:15.279 --> 00:22:24.240
Um, and I was, I was, I was it's so funny because I was talking to Beth about that this morning, and she was like, the other, the other side of it too.
00:22:24.319 --> 00:22:30.319
I was the other side of it too is that she was like, I'm a fully grown woman.
00:22:30.480 --> 00:22:36.079
Like, I, you know, have been navigating difficult things for my entire life.
00:22:36.400 --> 00:22:38.000
I'd have been fine, you know.
00:22:38.079 --> 00:22:45.200
It's like the story that we have to protect other people from our deep darkness, right?
00:22:45.279 --> 00:22:52.079
It's it's almost a little bit like self-aggrandizing just how much of an impact it would have on them.
00:22:52.480 --> 00:23:09.519
But the almost like subconscious desire to protect the drinking habit or to is being served by our more palatable, altruistic um bent to protect the people around us, right?
00:23:09.599 --> 00:23:20.799
Like it's more palatable, it's more altruistic, it's more noble if I'm keeping this to myself because my darkness is too much for anyone else to see, right?
00:23:20.960 --> 00:23:27.440
Like that sounds like heroic, but in actuality, like everybody's gonna be fine.
00:23:27.759 --> 00:23:35.039
And what is that it's allowing you to continue to not confront the things that you might need to confront?
00:23:35.519 --> 00:23:46.319
Um, and I was just so struck by that because it's we're so good at twisting around um our our beliefs and our motivations and things like that.
00:23:46.400 --> 00:23:51.759
And that's another good example of why it's good to have trusted people in your corner to talk through this.
00:23:51.839 --> 00:23:58.480
Because if you have somebody in your corner that can like see that and then be like, hey, are you sure it's not this, right?
00:23:58.559 --> 00:24:08.319
Like you just kind of confronts you with an inconvenient or difficult truth, then it could really shorten the timeline for you for taking back control of your life.
00:24:08.720 --> 00:24:10.240
Oh God, everything you said.
00:24:10.319 --> 00:24:21.680
I I mean, this is something I still it it's a pattern that showed up in my drinking, but that's a pattern that I've I'm I'm realizing now through the continued work that I do on myself.
00:24:21.839 --> 00:24:24.799
Like that's a pattern that I have had since childhood.
00:24:24.880 --> 00:24:30.240
It's a pattern that I had through my drinking, it's a pattern that I have now when I'm not drinking anymore.
00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:40.799
This belief that if I somehow can't resolve things for people or be the person they need me to be, that that's that that person is going to suffer.
00:24:40.880 --> 00:24:43.119
And I don't want anybody I love to suffer.
00:24:43.359 --> 00:24:51.039
And it's such a self-aggrandizing, and I think of myself as being like the opposite of that, right?
00:24:51.200 --> 00:24:54.559
So it's confronting to be like, oh my gosh, like who do you think you are, Ellen?
00:24:54.720 --> 00:24:57.920
You think you can control other people's emotions and feelings?
00:24:58.079 --> 00:25:03.759
And you think because you behave a certain way that they are going to feel happy and loved and cared for.
00:25:03.839 --> 00:25:06.960
And like I I think I can control that, you know?
00:25:07.039 --> 00:25:20.799
And so that, but and that was such a part of the drinking, too, because the thing that I'm learning through all of this is that of course I can't control how someone else feels, no matter what I do.
00:25:21.119 --> 00:25:25.920
We all, the only person who can control how we feel is ourselves.
00:25:26.079 --> 00:25:30.400
Like, and likewise, no one can make me feel a certain way.
00:25:30.559 --> 00:25:32.160
This has been something I've had to work on.
00:25:32.240 --> 00:25:34.400
Like, oh, he said that, he made me angry.
00:25:34.720 --> 00:25:50.640
No, you know, what how I am responding to the thing that he said makes me angry, you know, like the taking responsibility for my own emotion, but also allowing, you know, giving the responsibility back to the other person that they are also responsible for their own emotion.
00:25:50.720 --> 00:25:54.000
And that is like next level work, right?
00:25:54.160 --> 00:26:12.319
That continues because again, like we said on a previous episode, the drinking is not actually the problem, it's the solution we found for the original problem we had, and it's just a crappy solution, and it only works for a certain amount of time and then it stops working.
00:26:12.559 --> 00:26:15.039
So it's just so interesting.
00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:16.000
It really is.
00:26:16.319 --> 00:26:18.640
There's so much to to unpack with all that.
00:26:18.799 --> 00:26:34.319
Like the the idea that we are sovereign unto ourselves and that we don't need to be messing with or taking responsibility for or trying to control other people's emotions is a huge one.
00:26:34.559 --> 00:26:42.880
And then sometimes I'll say this, and I fear that people will hear, like, oh, well, just be a self-centered narcissistic butthead, right?
00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:45.200
Like, obviously, that's not what I'm saying.
00:26:45.440 --> 00:26:52.480
Obviously, we care about the people around us, but we have to know where we start and end and where they start and end.
00:26:53.039 --> 00:26:57.519
And operating within those parameters, like, where are you the most powerful?
00:26:57.680 --> 00:26:59.200
Where are you the most efficacious?
00:26:59.359 --> 00:27:03.039
Where are you the uh the most in control?
00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:05.359
It's it begins and ends right here.
00:27:05.519 --> 00:27:13.440
And it's very, very humbling, it's a big responsibility, um, but it's also really empowering.
00:27:13.759 --> 00:27:15.279
And it's also enough, right?
00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:39.119
Like if you really decided to focus on just taking care of how you showed up, the things that you were thinking, the things that you were saying, the if you took a responsibility, dare I say, for what you were feeling as a result of what other people were doing, you wouldn't have time to be in anybody else's business.
00:27:39.359 --> 00:27:53.279
Um, but it's much more attractive to try to go outside of ourselves and do and be for other people than it is to roll up our sleeves and work where the work really needs to happen.
00:27:53.519 --> 00:27:53.839
Yeah.
00:27:54.079 --> 00:28:04.160
I feel like this part of this conversation deserves a whole nother episode because there's so much in there about like circle of control, right?
00:28:04.319 --> 00:28:07.920
I mean, this idea of who we can only really control ourselves.
00:28:08.079 --> 00:28:10.079
Yes, then we there's a circle of influence.
00:28:10.240 --> 00:28:12.319
We do influence the people around us.
00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:15.119
And then there's things that we'd have no influence over at all, right?
00:28:15.279 --> 00:28:23.359
And we get swayed and moved around and tossed around by those things, and really starting to understand like what where where is my control?
00:28:23.440 --> 00:28:24.480
Where is my influence?
00:28:24.640 --> 00:28:26.240
Where is there no control at all?
00:28:26.319 --> 00:28:35.440
And and bringing the focus like to what you to your point, bring it back to the things that we can control because that's where we have efficacy, you know.
00:28:35.759 --> 00:28:41.440
So it and and there's a lot to to work on right there, right?
00:28:41.599 --> 00:28:47.279
We don't really need to be in everybody else's business working on their stuff, like we just working on our own.
00:28:47.759 --> 00:29:10.720
That's another interesting layer of this whole idea that if my drinking doesn't harm other people, then it's okay or there's no problem, is the way that we show up and how much we do or don't take responsibility for ourselves directly opens up new or different ways for other people to then respond to us.
00:29:11.119 --> 00:29:33.359
And so if I am showing up and showing that it's possible to have self-regard, and if it's possible for me to have self-respect or to not be influenced by the people around us, even the people that we love, then it makes that possible for them too.
00:29:33.519 --> 00:29:39.119
Like, I I think you know, this might be a poor demonstration, but like I've got my microphone cord here.
00:29:39.359 --> 00:29:47.359
If I pull something one way, what naturally happens, it has to snap back, it has to swing the other way.
00:29:47.519 --> 00:29:51.039
If I'm doing something, it invites a certain reaction.
00:29:51.279 --> 00:30:12.160
And so taking care that I'm showing up in my best self and I'm showing up in a way that isn't designed from the top to control or protect other people, then enables them to have a different experience, if that makes sense.
00:30:12.400 --> 00:30:13.359
Uh yes.
00:30:13.519 --> 00:30:21.759
I I was thinking of the example of I I um I'm I've been married a long time, 25, 6 years.
00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:25.920
And my husband has a habit of he exercises regularly.
00:30:26.079 --> 00:30:28.079
He always has, he he prioritizes it.
00:30:28.400 --> 00:30:33.119
It's his mental health thing that he does for himself, although I don't think I even realized that initially.
00:30:33.200 --> 00:30:36.720
I just thought he liked to run and now he likes to cycle.
00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:46.880
And um there was a a lot of time in our relationship that I resented that because he would always do it, always prioritize no matter what was going on.
00:30:47.119 --> 00:30:51.440
And and I made a story about what that meant.
00:30:52.240 --> 00:31:07.119
And then what ended up happening through all of this work is I had this realization that my gosh, he's doing the thing that I probably needed all along, which was to take an hour for myself on a daily basis, whether I wanted to run or do something else, didn't matter.
00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:10.960
Like take to prioritize my needs for an hour every day.
00:31:11.119 --> 00:31:12.319
And he was a much better.
00:31:12.640 --> 00:31:20.319
I mean, the days that he could exercise, he was, you know, a much healthier, better, happier, more productive, you know, just better mood, all the things person.
00:31:20.480 --> 00:31:22.880
Like I it was good that he did that.
00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:34.960
I even I could see that, yet I resented it instead of like when I kind of started doing this work, I was like, oh my gosh, what he's showing me is I also have permission to do that.
00:31:35.119 --> 00:31:40.319
Like I saw it as like, well, you have that, and I can't have it, you know.
00:31:40.640 --> 00:31:45.119
But when we and then, and then I started taking that time for myself.
00:31:45.279 --> 00:31:51.839
And then it like shifted the dynamic of our relationship a little bit, where and and you know, he understood it.
00:31:52.000 --> 00:31:58.640
Like in my mind, I was like, well, if I do that, he's gonna be annoyed or upset or take on have to take on extra responsibility.
00:31:58.799 --> 00:32:01.359
And he was like, Oh my god, I know, isn't it great?
00:32:01.519 --> 00:32:02.960
Like to have an allergy yourself.
00:32:03.279 --> 00:32:05.279
I had built up this whole thing in my head, you know.
00:32:05.440 --> 00:32:12.000
So it's like when when we when we make a shift like that, something's bound to happen, you know.
00:32:12.160 --> 00:32:16.960
I mean, not all of it's gonna be good as a response, but often it's better than we imagine.
00:32:17.039 --> 00:32:25.599
We're always so afraid of the worst case scenario that we're gonna shift something and then things are gonna, you know, all go to heck in a handbasket.
00:32:25.680 --> 00:32:31.599
And but you often it's more like it starts a healing, you know, circle cycle.
00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:44.160
I can't tell you over the years how many things I wanted to do but didn't do because I had this story in my head that Beth would resent me for doing something that she didn't want to do with me, right?
00:32:44.240 --> 00:32:49.759
Like go to a particular concert, go see a certain movie, go like do a thing to myself.
00:32:49.920 --> 00:32:56.240
And then what happened was I would not do those things, not tell her about it, and then I'd feel resentful.
00:32:56.720 --> 00:32:59.680
And she did ask for that, she didn't set that up.
00:32:59.759 --> 00:33:04.240
Uh, but nevertheless, like that's that was the end result.
00:33:04.640 --> 00:33:06.960
Yeah, I yeah, me too.
00:33:07.279 --> 00:33:07.759
Me too.
00:33:07.839 --> 00:33:14.640
And I think it's just it's again, it's that like kind of what you were saying earlier, this kind of self-aggrandized image.
00:33:14.880 --> 00:33:17.839
We have a pattern of and that came from somewhere, you know.
00:33:17.920 --> 00:33:23.839
Like we figured out at an early age that if we did certain things, our family dynamic would, you know, whatever.
00:33:23.920 --> 00:33:24.880
We're not crazy for that.
00:33:24.960 --> 00:33:26.960
Like, and that's something to unpack too.
00:33:27.200 --> 00:33:54.880
Um, but it leads to this false idea that we can somehow control other people's states, you know, and um, and that's a that's a really precarious place to be because we try so hard, because we love people, to create let get get them into what you know to control their state, we want it to be a positive state, right?
00:33:54.960 --> 00:34:05.279
And when so then when anybody gets angry or anybody gets sad or anybody struggles and we feel so out of control, that perpetuates the whole drinking, right?
00:34:05.359 --> 00:34:21.519
So it's just for me in my particular scenario, but I'm 100% sure I'm not alone because I've heard this a again and again and again, like that was a cycle that it unpacking that was an essential piece of the whole puzzle of me.
00:34:21.760 --> 00:34:28.559
Ellen, we love to close out our episodes with something practical for people who make it all the way through here.
00:34:28.800 --> 00:34:40.000
So a big theme that I've picked up in our conversation is how do we stop taking over responsibility for the people in our lives, right?
00:34:40.079 --> 00:35:00.400
Like if if if my own feeling about my drinking is so related to other people, how do I start to, what's a practical way for me this week to start to figure out where I am and where they are and to start to see or experiment with some healthy differentiation?
00:35:00.719 --> 00:35:02.960
That is uh such a good question.
00:35:03.199 --> 00:35:07.039
Um a small practical thing to do.
00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:10.239
I'm gonna punt and give it back to you while I think of something.
00:35:10.559 --> 00:35:22.719
I think that one of the biggest things that you can do when you're starting to learn how to be in healthy differentiation with the people around you is to pause and notice.
00:35:22.960 --> 00:35:37.760
I like to do the weight technique for um fighting a craving, but I think that the weight technique for responding to your loved ones is also really, really effective.
00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:44.480
So the weight technique that I talk about sometimes, and I've I've shared it before on this podcast, the W-A-I-T.
00:35:45.119 --> 00:35:47.119
What am I thinking?
00:35:47.440 --> 00:35:56.719
And build in a little bit of time in between a stimulus from your loved one and how you respond.
00:35:56.960 --> 00:36:04.239
So, for instance, to kind of put it back into very concrete domestic bliss, right?
00:36:04.639 --> 00:36:14.159
Your spouse, it's the end of a long day, and your spouse asks you to do the dishes, and you've been working all day and they haven't been punching a clock.
00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:16.960
Wait, what am I thinking?
00:36:17.360 --> 00:36:20.960
Notice what is the story that's attached to that?
00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:24.159
Um, how are you feeling?
00:36:24.320 --> 00:36:27.280
How are you like initially primed to respond?
00:36:28.800 --> 00:36:34.960
Do you need to um do you need to immediately act on those feelings?
00:36:35.119 --> 00:36:44.480
You know, like can you is there a better, more healthful for the relationship um way to show up through that encounter, right?
00:36:44.639 --> 00:36:51.679
Like, can you get to a spot of uh thoughtful, compassionate understanding for where they're coming from?
00:36:52.480 --> 00:36:56.719
Is this something that you do need to say something about?
00:36:56.960 --> 00:37:01.840
Or like is it as charged, maybe as you might be thinking it is?
00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:10.239
Does your partner understand the context with which you're receiving that information in the context of your busy day or whatever, right?
00:37:10.320 --> 00:37:15.679
Like, is this a right now crisis or is this a get around to it later crisis, right?
00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:33.199
Like just giving yourself a beat, examining how you are initially feeling, and then seeing if you can assert some kind of control over that or at least curiosity about where those feelings are coming from can be extraordinarily instructive.
00:37:34.400 --> 00:37:36.880
Yeah, all of that is is brilliant.
00:37:37.039 --> 00:37:52.079
I I think the only thing that I would like a little thing that I could add to that that might be useful is I I I used to, and it still happens sometimes, like my husband would be in a mood about something, right?
00:37:52.239 --> 00:38:04.400
And because I have a pattern of believing that I can am responsible for and can control other people's moods, I would create a story that, oh God, what did I do that irritated him?
00:38:04.559 --> 00:38:07.119
Like, what can I do to fix this?
00:38:07.440 --> 00:38:16.320
And a coach actually shared, you know, shared this observation with me that you know, do you really know what's going on with him?
00:38:16.480 --> 00:38:23.599
Like just because he walked in the room and he is behaving, like so like ask yourself, do I really know?
00:38:23.760 --> 00:38:24.800
Like, I believe all that.
00:38:25.119 --> 00:38:29.280
And a really simple thing to do is ask.
00:38:29.679 --> 00:38:37.199
Like, so I have started being like, Wow, you you seem you know, a little on on edge or ups upset or irritated.
00:38:37.280 --> 00:38:38.960
Like, what's going on?
00:38:39.119 --> 00:38:42.719
Did I is it something to do with me, or is it something to do with something else?
00:38:42.880 --> 00:38:46.880
And I mean, nine times out of ten, it's completely unrelated to me.
00:38:47.039 --> 00:38:48.800
And I have made it all about me, you know.
00:38:48.880 --> 00:38:56.960
Oh, I must have done something, and you know, maybe just got off the phone with someone, or maybe he is tired, maybe his foot hurts, who knows what it is, right?
00:38:57.039 --> 00:38:58.960
And I am constantly making it all about me.
00:38:59.119 --> 00:39:06.320
So, you know, just to take a beat and be like, hmm, do I really know what this is about?
00:39:06.480 --> 00:39:13.920
And can I, you know, assuming you have a a safe, loving partner, can I just get some clarity and and ask?
00:39:14.079 --> 00:39:22.960
And it has, I mean, just that alone has diffused so many of my emotional spin outs.
00:39:23.039 --> 00:39:26.400
Because I'm like, huh, okay, then that's something I don't need to worry about, right?
00:39:26.559 --> 00:39:31.199
Like, is it a kind of a relief to realize that it's not all about you?
00:39:31.440 --> 00:39:33.519
Oh my gosh, it is such a relief.
00:39:33.679 --> 00:39:39.280
Oh, I that story is so relatable because I absolutely used to do the same thing.
00:39:39.360 --> 00:39:43.199
Like, if anything was if there was a furrow on the brow, right?
00:39:43.280 --> 00:39:47.760
I'm like, oh my god, this is it's definitely about me.
00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:52.480
I wonder what I did, and then it would also be like, but I'm great.
00:39:52.639 --> 00:39:56.800
Why is she mad at me with all the things that I do?
00:39:57.039 --> 00:40:00.000
She doesn't appreciate me, and then I'm in a mood, right?
00:40:00.159 --> 00:40:01.760
Like, and guess what?
00:40:01.840 --> 00:40:03.760
It had nothing to do with any of that, right?
00:40:03.840 --> 00:40:05.519
Like, it's so ridiculous.
00:40:05.760 --> 00:40:09.360
And so it's become a norm for our it's become a norm for our relationship.
00:40:09.599 --> 00:40:19.599
If one of us like, we'll just say, Yeah, I'm in kind of a funky mood, or like if we don't know, like, hey, is this about did I do anything wrong, or you know, do you want to talk about anything?
00:40:19.760 --> 00:40:22.000
No, it's something else cool, right?
00:40:22.159 --> 00:40:25.440
Like, I I'm here for you if you want to talk about it, right?
00:40:25.519 --> 00:40:29.440
Like, and it's just that that norm, completely revolutionary.
00:40:29.760 --> 00:40:37.199
Yeah, and that takes practice, you know, you're not gonna get it right, it might be messy in the beginning, it might be a little uncomfortable, it might be, but like anything, it takes practice.
00:40:37.360 --> 00:40:48.639
And I was just gonna say this something drinking complicates that even more because quite often we we immediately go to, I must have done something when I was drinking, I must have said something, I'm worried about our drinking.
00:40:48.800 --> 00:40:51.360
You know, come to find out my husband wasn't worried about my drinking at all, right?
00:40:51.440 --> 00:40:54.480
Like, so I all of that that I had built up.
00:40:54.719 --> 00:41:01.360
And so, yeah, again, just just gently with curiosity, ask.
00:41:03.199 --> 00:41:04.000
Such good advice.
00:41:04.079 --> 00:41:04.719
All right, Ellen.
00:41:04.800 --> 00:41:08.320
That's it for this week's episode of the Alcohol Myth Podcast.
00:41:08.480 --> 00:41:10.000
Thank you all for listening.
00:41:10.159 --> 00:41:12.000
Um, please send us an email.
00:41:12.639 --> 00:41:16.719
Uh and uh yeah, comment, like, share, subscribe, all that good stuff.
00:41:16.800 --> 00:41:18.559
Uh, we appreciate your listening.
00:41:18.719 --> 00:41:20.719
And till next week, I've been Jonathan.
00:41:20.880 --> 00:41:21.599
And I've been Ellen.
00:41:21.760 --> 00:41:23.119
Great to be with you.
00:41:23.440 --> 00:41:25.760
Thanks for listening to the Alcohol Myth Podcast.
00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:29.360
If this episode sparked something for you, we'd love to hear about it.
00:41:29.599 --> 00:41:35.760
Send your questions, stories, or ideas for future episodes to thealcoholmyth at gmail.com.
00:41:36.000 --> 00:41:37.360
We read every message.
00:41:37.519 --> 00:41:38.239
We really do.
00:41:38.480 --> 00:41:39.679
Take good care of yourself.
00:41:39.840 --> 00:41:41.360
We'll see you next time.
