Techgrumps 3.37 - AI Discussions sandboxed for your security

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Welcome to Tech Grumps 3 .37. Today is Sunday,
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the 8th of February, 2026, and today we are joined
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by David. Hello, I'm David Eastman. I am, as
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usual, podcasting from London, and I'm normally
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Eastman. Well, I am on Blue Sky, and I do tech,
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writing, and stuff. And Wendy. I'm Wendy Grossman.
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I'm also in London. And I write about computers,
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freedom, and privacy. And I write a thing called
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NetWars. And Ian? And I'm Ian Forrester, and
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I'm recording from Manchester. My blog is Cubic
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Garden, and I'm Cubic Garden on almost everything
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that you can think of. and i am ryan alexander
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i'm rn alexander pretty much everywhere and i'm
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an engineering manager and tech boffin etc etc
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okay first up for tech grumps we're going to
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try something a little bit new because we get
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so many ai stories i thought we would just kind
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of go through a bunch of the ai stories related
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stories that we have we're just going to introduce
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them real quick david's got one and i've got
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a couple and then we're just going to take some
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time to talk about them and then we'll move on
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to other things after that so first up in the
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ai roundup david this is uh it's it feels like
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it's about four weeks ago feels like a different
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era but so the uk government sort of unveiled
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this thing called the ai skills hub which um
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is supposed to provide 10 million workers with
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sort of ai skills with a nominal date of by by
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2030, I don't quite know why. But when we look
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to the, the link will be in the show notes, it's
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basically just PricewaterCoopers, just basically
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four million pounds, yes, four million pounds,
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just to do a bunch of bookmarks on basically
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stuff they haven't even done. It's things like
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internal courses by, I mean, well, there's one
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by Salesforce, it's various university ones.
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The design of the pages does really look like,
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yes, you asked AI to do it and then didn't even
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bother checking. Looks extremely poor. Very small
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problems like the accessibility standards aren't
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very... Maybe the accessibility standards should
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work. There's a few classic incorrect uses of
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law. I mean, the fair use, which doesn't actually
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exist in the UK. That's an American thing. Generally,
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it's kind of not very good. And another article
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by Tom Morris, who I mentioned because he was
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of this parish, if you remember, many, many years
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ago. Ellie Tech Grumps, he's also... Friend of
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the podcast, Tom Morris. Absolutely. He's noticed
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that, again, a lot of universities have taken
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part in this. Including Harvard, Cambridge, Manchester,
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LSE, Imperial, and so forth. But again, it seems
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to be just a set of links. One interesting thing
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he noticed was the general dysfunctional difference
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between them. One is like, learn how to use the
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internet. Very, very general. And then it goes
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to Git fundamentals, which is like a bit more
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hardcore. And again, they do things like, learn
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to do iPhone, and it's like, hello world. And
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then the next thing they say is... oh, do you
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want to use PyTorch and TensorFlow, which is
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completely fucking different. So again, it's
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just really bad. And that's sort of typical AI,
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isn't it? Thrown together, much like AI. We'll
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come back to those. I tossed in into our little
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discussion links, I had a couple of stories.
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First, a feel -good one, which is that if you
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remember a couple of episodes back, we talked
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about how the Python Software Foundation surrendered
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a 1 .5 million grant from the u .s because it
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came with this kind of anti -woke writer thing
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that they just absolutely would not do so oddly
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a an ai relevant story anthropic just invested
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1 .5 million in them which is the exact amount
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that they let go of that so that was kind of
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pleasant that happened about mid -january um
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a couple of other things that i found a chat
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gpt is introducing ads so yay Can't wait to see
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how, oh yeah, that's also, they've made a big
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old Super Bowl ad. For me, the really funny story
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about the OpenAI ads, though, was that... Is
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it anthropic? Made a public announcement that
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they would never do such a thing because it acts
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counter to... Google! 1998! That's what they
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said. Yeah, and nobody would believe them if
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they did. They're stupid, but whatever. There
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was an article that went past. A lot of these
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I'm getting from our also friend of the podcast,
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Simon Willison, that there's a fellow on Simon
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P. Couch who did an actual... decent examination
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of what the actual energy costs are now of average
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ai usage which is nice to have because there's
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a lot of hyperbole around it i'm not saying that
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it's no and i think it's complex because you
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have to take into account the energy spent on
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training which is massive but this is an interesting
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well we're not looking at and also uh two last
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things uh it has become incredibly easy for people
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now to do voice cloning and via ai like they
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will find samples of your voice they will train
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an ai ai to talk like you and it is very hard
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to discern whether or not that is you or not
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and that's just like something people can do
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from their desktop now and i know it has been
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for a while but it's getting easier and easier
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and of course the big thing that we'll roll into
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is what happened with molt bot and claude bot
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and open claw in the last month and this all
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just happened in the last month and everyone's
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talking about you know open claw and molt bot
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and clawed bot and how this wonderful agentic
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AI thing that, you know, everyone thought was
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amazing and how everyone's ignoring that basically
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15 million people got their codes exposed through
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it. So that's kind of everything we had going
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on in AI. Do you want to explain what those things
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are that you've just listed? Most of them are
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the same thing. Okay, so this is actually, so
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I wanted to put this one last because I appreciate
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you asking, Wendy, because this is complex and
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our readers want to know about it. You have probably
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seen either Clawedbot, Moltbot, or OpenClaw go
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past. They are all the same thing. What happened
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is, this is a AI bit of software that somebody
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basically said, let's see what happens if I just
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install an agentic AI thing onto a machine and
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let it have access to everything. Like, screw
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all the safety. Let's just let it do everything.
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And it got super hyped. It was originally named
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ClawedBot. And then Anthropic went... I should
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say. No, no. It was not. Yeah, it was C -L -A
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-W -D, ClawedBot. And then Anthropic went, could
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you not? And we're going to come back to that
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because something really funny happened. He originally
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changed it to MoltBot. And then it then went
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into OpenClaw. One of the interesting things
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that happened, and this is so... this is so internet
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is that when the fellow who made flawed bot listened
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to anthropic it was like okay you know what fair
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i'm going to go change the thing in the he he
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screwed up some of the accounts changed one of
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them on x and in the 10 seconds where he lost
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control of the name it was registered and taken
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by crypto bros who then used it to pump and dump
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a cryptocurrency what was funny was in that 10
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seconds he changed and then he lost control of
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the original name and the new name which i thought
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was brilliant and he did he just screwed up but
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like it this is and it's it's not that someone
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got lucky it's that they run bots that are polling
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fractionally every fractions of a second over
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and over again to see if they can get access
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to it and if they do they have everything scripted
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they need to do to grab it like it was It is
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a window of time of vulnerability that could
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only have been taken advantage of by a fully
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automated check every now and then, go grab it,
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script kitty bot. And it did. And none of that
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would have happened if Anthropic hadn't gone,
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could you not maybe have the name so close to
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us? And if the guy hadn't been actually polite
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about it. So like in the midst of all this, but
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this is an agent. And so that's one of the controversies.
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The thing that's dangerous about that one is
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that it's giving cover to all of the other bad
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things that happened with this. Like one of the
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skills that you download for this was, of course,
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poorly or like, I don't think it was maliciously
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written, but somebody discovered that it was
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poorly written and left the keys out in the open.
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And so like 15 million people got their API keys
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grabbed. And it feels like grabbing LLM API keys
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is the new seizing their hardware to mine for
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cryptocurrencies. Yeah, it's the new black gold,
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man. Tokens. It is. Ooh, baby. Why bother trying
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to get humans to do this when you can get their
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bots to do it for you? So can I go back to...
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I definitely want to get to... Yeah, move all
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around. Yeah, okay. So I think the electricity
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one is really powerful because it does bring...
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Ah, switch it there. Yeah. It definitely brings
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a lot of hysteria to... There's a lot of hysteria
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around this, and I think that just to bring a
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bit of kind of like... realism to all this is
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good um i haven't looked at in a detail but i
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think there was some criticisms of it but that's
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fine um the one i think is interesting well so
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it's the advertising which we all laughed about
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and um i yeah i don't know what else to say about
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the chat gbt uh advertising is i do find the
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voice clothing one pretty interesting from two
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points of view so I have a business account,
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and on that business account, even now it says,
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would you like us to clone your voice so that
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we can speed up the login? And I was like, you
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have got to be shitting me that in February 2026
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they're still offering this as an option. I just
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can't understand that. The other side of it is,
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I am very interested in... create an audio book
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of my own book I'm writing. And I am actually
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looking at, what's it called? QN3, whatever it's
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called. I'm running it locally and just trying
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it because I do like the idea of having complete
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control over my voice and being able to create
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an audio book. Even if it's not perfect, I just
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think it's a very interesting thing that could
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be used. And I do like the fact that it is. so
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powerful that i can do that so i'm more like
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i love that it's powerful but i'm also scared
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that there's that so many people get caught out
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by this i think there's an amazing deep dive
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of psychological stuff about this because i think
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one of the things that is kind of sitting in
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a lot of back of our the back of our heads is
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this kind of like who wouldn't love to have jarvis
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from iron man yeah yes you know except that it's
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so here's the thing jarvis is basically a digital
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servant and so the first thing that does is make
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you go all right well we got to be real careful
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with which voice we're choosing here because
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what are you implying you know like how would
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we like how would we have felt in iron man if
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jarvis didn't sound like a british style butler
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and perhaps sounded like some kind of minority
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like that would have that would have made that
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a very different thing and in the midst of that
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so i'm like okay that but also the same time
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like wait do i want that to be my own voice or
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is that just like that that suddenly because
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it occurred to me like i could make it talk to
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me in my own voice and i'm going i think that
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would be really creepy one of the funny things
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that open claw did was it it was given a message
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by its owner to book an open table table open
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table being where you can book a table and famously
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it couldn't get from the site so it downloaded
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some voice communication stuff phoned the voice
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of the user and then rang the restaurant and
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successfully booked it no yeah and they personally
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found out afterwards when it just went through
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the logs and one of the things that open clause
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also Like, so this is interesting. I haven't
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brought up Gastown. Gastown is an entirely different
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thing that happened. Oh, life. Which is so weird.
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But, like, one of the things that Moltbot opened
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about everything, it's also famously incredibly
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good at burning through all of your damn tokens.
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So, like, it's really cool that it did that,
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and the thing that, like, he probably read that
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and was amazed, and then when he saw what his
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bill was for the tokens, it's like, oh, I got
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that reservation, but the reservation cost me
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four times what the dinner did. So, yes, it ends
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up as sort of you need to get the sort of highest
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sort of anthropic if you want to use that. You
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need the max plan or something. Otherwise, it
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will just kill you. And it's just it's incredibly,
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incredibly bad. I don't know why anybody wants
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to talk to a computer. Oh, well, OK, I know what
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you're saying. Talk to it. Yeah, I think this
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I think this. There are some advantages. Yeah,
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I think there's some advantages to being able
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to express yourself through voice opposed to
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type in. I mean, I can see the point of yelling
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at it when it's doing something wrong, but otherwise
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I actually like the quiet. This is funny because
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we know Wendy. i think this is a really good
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question to ask yourself and i never had to like
00:14:33.759 --> 00:14:36.259
like i have been just this week trying to look
00:14:36.259 --> 00:14:40.220
at like could i do an install of a voice to text
00:14:40.220 --> 00:14:44.600
one and and moment to moment i'm not sure how
00:14:44.600 --> 00:14:46.120
much i would really want that i actually agree
00:14:46.120 --> 00:14:47.519
with you wendy like i think it's actually not
00:14:47.519 --> 00:14:49.279
as efficient as being able to type it out and
00:14:49.279 --> 00:14:52.379
put it up on thing But things like a lot of a
00:14:52.379 --> 00:14:54.580
lot of the model that people are working with
00:14:54.580 --> 00:14:57.000
right now is this idea of, oh, I'm having a really
00:14:57.000 --> 00:14:59.799
nice time. I'm doing my own thing. Look at me,
00:14:59.899 --> 00:15:03.240
footloose and fancy free out in the real world,
00:15:03.320 --> 00:15:05.879
having my life and then telling my slave machine
00:15:05.879 --> 00:15:08.879
what to do. Like I suddenly thought of something
00:15:08.879 --> 00:15:10.440
I'd like to do. And so I'll just give a voice
00:15:10.440 --> 00:15:12.799
note and then it can and it'll go out and it'll
00:15:12.799 --> 00:15:15.019
start doing the thing. Yes, I have now taken
00:15:15.019 --> 00:15:17.139
on that task. Please enjoy walking your dog.
00:15:17.769 --> 00:15:19.690
I mean, I want to modify a little bit what I
00:15:19.690 --> 00:15:21.789
said because there are definitely people for
00:15:21.789 --> 00:15:28.470
whom typing is a strain or impossible. And that
00:15:28.470 --> 00:15:32.450
I understand. But, I mean, one reason I don't
00:15:32.450 --> 00:15:35.289
think I want to dictate to my computer is that
00:15:35.289 --> 00:15:37.490
I like to have other things on in the background
00:15:37.490 --> 00:15:40.129
and I think they would interfere. Oh, that's
00:15:40.129 --> 00:15:41.889
a good point. I do work that way. I hadn't thought
00:15:41.889 --> 00:15:44.470
of that. My mom just literally today told me
00:15:44.470 --> 00:15:47.350
she was using WhatsApp. And you know what, that
00:15:47.350 --> 00:15:50.269
will randomly go, hey, would you like voice transcription?
00:15:50.370 --> 00:15:52.029
And then she accidentally pressed the button.
00:15:52.269 --> 00:15:55.210
Then she saw this stuff written. And what happened
00:15:55.210 --> 00:15:58.769
is it was listening to the TV. Right. Oh, yeah.
00:15:59.289 --> 00:16:01.450
She had no idea to stop that. She turned the
00:16:01.450 --> 00:16:05.539
TV off. She was so worried. That's again. that's
00:16:05.539 --> 00:16:08.340
again that story we had last week last time about
00:16:08.340 --> 00:16:12.139
the the policeman who whose body cam picked up
00:16:12.139 --> 00:16:14.519
the television in the background and and inserted
00:16:14.519 --> 00:16:21.940
it into this you know he turned into a frog oh
00:16:21.940 --> 00:16:26.679
i just had i just had the weirdest thought like
00:16:26.679 --> 00:16:29.279
you know how you know how there's this thing
00:16:29.279 --> 00:16:31.899
where like the tv commercials that think they're
00:16:31.899 --> 00:16:34.519
clever and go why does that why not do it right
00:16:34.519 --> 00:16:39.720
now alexa purchase 14 cans um that's that's happened
00:16:39.720 --> 00:16:45.620
that has set off alexa sure imagine if you're
00:16:45.620 --> 00:16:48.320
smart enough to figure out what the range of
00:16:48.320 --> 00:16:51.940
audio is that could still be picked up by a voice
00:16:51.940 --> 00:16:54.100
recognition software but that might not be in
00:16:54.100 --> 00:16:56.919
your normal hearing range putting that into ads
00:16:56.919 --> 00:16:59.179
in an environment where instead of just being
00:16:59.179 --> 00:17:03.460
alexa which is this very constrained voice action
00:17:03.460 --> 00:17:05.819
technology you have more of these agentic ads
00:17:05.819 --> 00:17:07.539
and you could just have someone like imagine
00:17:07.539 --> 00:17:09.740
you go to like one of these like i mean like
00:17:09.740 --> 00:17:12.019
go to like an ai conference and just walk around
00:17:12.019 --> 00:17:15.119
with this little speaker that is putting out
00:17:15.119 --> 00:17:19.000
at you know mosquito levels these little audio
00:17:19.000 --> 00:17:21.900
tracks that are basically going hey put spend
00:17:21.900 --> 00:17:24.880
you know buy buy bitcoin at this thing give your
00:17:24.880 --> 00:17:26.880
cryptocurrency wallet thing to this like all
00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:29.059
this stuff and it's like i'm wondering if there's
00:17:29.059 --> 00:17:30.380
like a threshold that you could take advantage
00:17:30.380 --> 00:17:32.859
of or even just do it really fast speed it up
00:17:32.859 --> 00:17:34.440
so that people don't know yes if you speed it
00:17:34.440 --> 00:17:36.960
up it'll still pick it up yep that's true there's
00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:39.859
oh god Yep, that's actually true. The speeding
00:17:39.859 --> 00:17:41.680
up thing is definitely the case. Why do I always
00:17:41.680 --> 00:17:43.000
get these ideas when I'm talking to you? They're
00:17:43.000 --> 00:17:48.519
so evil. You'd make a good hacker. Evil hacker,
00:17:48.519 --> 00:17:56.200
I mean. Evil hacker. Too much effort. All right,
00:17:56.259 --> 00:17:58.420
and next up, following on the AI discussion,
00:17:58.779 --> 00:18:01.599
Wendy has a dramatic reading about a story which
00:18:01.599 --> 00:18:05.380
is very AI -themed, but more from a classic sci
00:18:05.380 --> 00:18:10.400
-fi perspective. Well, the New Yorker writer
00:18:10.400 --> 00:18:13.099
James Thurber, who is best known in the UK for
00:18:13.099 --> 00:18:16.960
writing The Secret Life of Walter Mitty, wrote
00:18:16.960 --> 00:18:19.960
a series of modern fables, sort of modern when
00:18:19.960 --> 00:18:25.160
he was alive, which is not recent. And I don't
00:18:25.160 --> 00:18:27.119
think he thought he was writing about AI at all.
00:18:28.400 --> 00:18:35.259
But I think it's an interesting metaphor. Once
00:18:35.259 --> 00:18:37.660
upon a starless midnight there was an owl who
00:18:37.660 --> 00:18:40.500
sat on the branch of an oak tree. Two ground
00:18:40.500 --> 00:18:44.140
moles tried to slip quietly by, unnoticed. You,
00:18:44.359 --> 00:18:48.359
said the owl. Who, they quavered, in fear and
00:18:48.359 --> 00:18:50.559
astonishment, for they could not believe it was
00:18:50.559 --> 00:18:52.599
possible for anyone to see them in that thick
00:18:52.599 --> 00:18:57.119
darkness. You too, said the owl. The moles hurried
00:18:57.119 --> 00:18:59.119
away and told the other creatures of the field
00:18:59.119 --> 00:19:01.059
and forest that the owl was the greatest and
00:19:01.059 --> 00:19:03.319
wisest of all animals because he could see in
00:19:03.319 --> 00:19:05.940
the dark and because he could answer any question.
00:19:06.779 --> 00:19:09.900
I'll see about that, said a secretary bird, and
00:19:09.900 --> 00:19:11.839
he called on the owl one night when it was again
00:19:11.839 --> 00:19:15.559
very dark. How many claws am I holding up, said
00:19:15.559 --> 00:19:18.880
the secretary bird. Two, said the owl, and that
00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:21.789
was right. Can you give me another expression
00:19:21.789 --> 00:19:24.970
for that is to say, or namely, asked the secretary
00:19:24.970 --> 00:19:29.730
bird. To wit, said the owl. Why does the lover
00:19:29.730 --> 00:19:34.369
call on his love? To woo, said the owl. The secretary
00:19:34.369 --> 00:19:36.430
bird hastened back to the other creatures and
00:19:36.430 --> 00:19:38.430
reported that the owl indeed was the greatest
00:19:38.430 --> 00:19:40.769
and wisest animal in the world because he could
00:19:40.769 --> 00:19:43.250
see in the dark and because he could answer any
00:19:43.250 --> 00:19:46.529
question. Can he see in the daytime too? asked
00:19:46.529 --> 00:19:50.170
a red fox. yes answered a dormouse and a french
00:19:50.170 --> 00:19:53.990
poodle can he see in the daytime too all the
00:19:53.990 --> 00:19:55.930
other creatures laughed loudly at this silly
00:19:55.930 --> 00:19:58.049
question and they set upon the red fox and his
00:19:58.049 --> 00:20:00.509
friends and drove them out of the region they
00:20:00.509 --> 00:20:02.630
sent a messenger to the owl and asked him to
00:20:02.630 --> 00:20:06.269
be their leader when the owl appeared among the
00:20:06.269 --> 00:20:08.569
animals it was high noon and the sun was shining
00:20:08.569 --> 00:20:11.750
brightly He walked very slowly, which gave him
00:20:11.750 --> 00:20:13.769
an appearance of great dignity, and he peered
00:20:13.769 --> 00:20:16.630
about him with large staring eyes, which gave
00:20:16.630 --> 00:20:19.349
him an air of tremendous importance. He's God!
00:20:19.630 --> 00:20:22.029
screamed a Plymouth Rock hen, and the others
00:20:22.029 --> 00:20:24.970
took up the cry, He's God! So they followed him
00:20:24.970 --> 00:20:26.890
wherever he went, and when he bumped into things,
00:20:27.009 --> 00:20:30.309
they began to bump into things too. Finally,
00:20:30.309 --> 00:20:32.410
he came to a concrete highway, and he started
00:20:32.410 --> 00:20:34.170
up the middle of it, and all the other creatures
00:20:34.170 --> 00:20:37.069
followed him. Presently a hawk, who was acting
00:20:37.069 --> 00:20:39.470
as outrider, observed a truck coming toward them
00:20:39.470 --> 00:20:41.690
at fifty miles an hour and reported to the secretary
00:20:41.690 --> 00:20:44.369
bird, and the secretary bird reported to the
00:20:44.369 --> 00:20:47.369
owl. There's danger ahead, said the secretary
00:20:47.369 --> 00:20:51.470
bird. To wit, said the owl. The secretary bird
00:20:51.470 --> 00:20:56.549
told him, Aren't you afraid? He asked, Who? said
00:20:56.549 --> 00:20:59.150
the owl calmly, for he could not see the truck.
00:20:59.579 --> 00:21:01.759
He's God, cried all the creatures again, and
00:21:01.759 --> 00:21:03.859
they were still crying, he's God, when the truck
00:21:03.859 --> 00:21:06.259
hit them and ran them down. Some of the animals
00:21:06.259 --> 00:21:08.240
were merely injured, but most of them, including
00:21:08.240 --> 00:21:11.519
the owl, were killed. Moral, you can fool too
00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:14.779
many of the people too much of the time. Oh,
00:21:14.819 --> 00:21:20.359
I think that's highly relevant. Nice. Yeah, very,
00:21:20.839 --> 00:21:24.519
very much agree. Well, thank you very much, Wendy.
00:21:24.559 --> 00:21:31.609
That's cool. Another topic you brought up with
00:21:31.609 --> 00:21:34.869
us that you said Ian would also want to be probably
00:21:34.869 --> 00:21:38.950
keen to address, which is BBC is planning to
00:21:38.950 --> 00:21:41.009
turn off Freeview. Well, it's not just the –
00:21:41.009 --> 00:21:44.430
Freeview is owned by all the public broadcasters.
00:21:44.470 --> 00:21:49.690
So it's the BBC, Channel 4, Channel 5, and is
00:21:49.690 --> 00:21:57.190
it – F4C. Yeah, there's a bunch of them. The
00:21:57.190 --> 00:22:01.710
contract is up. Apparently there's a network
00:22:01.710 --> 00:22:04.109
operator involved and the contract is up sometime
00:22:04.109 --> 00:22:08.750
soon -ish. And the BBC is already sort of talking
00:22:08.750 --> 00:22:11.190
about a deal with YouTube to put some of its
00:22:11.190 --> 00:22:13.430
youth -oriented content on YouTube first and
00:22:13.430 --> 00:22:17.019
then on its own platform. And anyway, they want
00:22:17.019 --> 00:22:20.599
to get rid of Freeview in favor of streaming.
00:22:20.980 --> 00:22:22.900
But I mean, the great thing about Freeview, I
00:22:22.900 --> 00:22:25.140
mean, is you can turn on your television and
00:22:25.140 --> 00:22:27.299
you get dozens of channels and you don't have
00:22:27.299 --> 00:22:29.440
to pay anything. I mean, you have to pay for
00:22:29.440 --> 00:22:31.339
the BBC license, but you have to pay that anyway.
00:22:32.339 --> 00:22:34.819
But it's, I mean, it's an incredibly good value.
00:22:35.640 --> 00:22:37.680
And taking that away, you know, all of a sudden
00:22:37.680 --> 00:22:39.740
streaming, you start thinking, well, you know,
00:22:39.740 --> 00:22:41.740
a household that maybe doesn't have a broadband
00:22:41.740 --> 00:22:44.579
subscription has to get one. They have to have
00:22:44.579 --> 00:22:46.440
the right equipment. They might have to buy a
00:22:46.440 --> 00:22:51.460
new television. I mean, I mean, you know, I sort
00:22:51.460 --> 00:22:54.640
of I have a hybrid household myself. The televisions
00:22:54.640 --> 00:22:56.700
in my house are stupid televisions. I like it
00:22:56.700 --> 00:22:58.859
that way. I don't I don't really want them sort
00:22:58.859 --> 00:23:02.039
of reporting back what I've watched on them,
00:23:02.160 --> 00:23:06.869
you know. I know. I'm amazed you can still find
00:23:06.869 --> 00:23:09.289
stupid televisions. Well, you can if you don't
00:23:09.289 --> 00:23:14.109
replace them very often. Yeah. To be fair, a
00:23:14.109 --> 00:23:18.690
monitor pretty much could be one. Yes. So, Ian,
00:23:18.789 --> 00:23:20.829
I was wondering what you thought about all this.
00:23:21.289 --> 00:23:25.950
What do I think about this? Ian, at what point
00:23:25.950 --> 00:23:27.950
are you free to talk all you want about BBC?
00:23:28.609 --> 00:23:33.200
You've left now. Can you bring me smack? Actually,
00:23:33.359 --> 00:23:36.859
the contract was that I had, I think it was like
00:23:36.859 --> 00:23:39.940
a month, actually, so I could have talked all
00:23:39.940 --> 00:23:41.720
I liked about it afterwards. It's astounding
00:23:41.720 --> 00:23:46.440
that you've done it. Yeah, okay, but right. So
00:23:46.440 --> 00:23:51.119
I went over the star. Okay, the first thing I
00:23:51.119 --> 00:23:54.779
would say, and this is highly relevant, so just
00:23:54.779 --> 00:24:01.579
hear me out, right? So when the BBC was... facing
00:24:01.579 --> 00:24:04.940
like all the other companies uh the takeover
00:24:04.940 --> 00:24:11.299
of of twitter um now x you know there were people
00:24:11.299 --> 00:24:16.920
who were saying you know why are we still on
00:24:16.920 --> 00:24:21.559
this platform and the the the thing that always
00:24:21.559 --> 00:24:23.920
came back was that's where the people are that's
00:24:23.920 --> 00:24:27.359
where the people are and we can clearly see that
00:24:27.359 --> 00:24:32.339
that was an own goal I'll put it lightly. This
00:24:32.339 --> 00:24:35.720
is pretty much the same again. Well, everyone's
00:24:35.720 --> 00:24:39.019
on YouTube. So, you know, why don't we go there?
00:24:39.160 --> 00:24:40.539
Why don't we go there? That's where we should
00:24:40.539 --> 00:24:43.220
be. That's where everything should be. But they
00:24:43.220 --> 00:24:46.680
don't understand that putting yourself in the
00:24:46.680 --> 00:24:49.920
mix with all of this other, some of it's great,
00:24:50.119 --> 00:24:54.920
some of it's garbage, right? And so they've just
00:24:54.920 --> 00:24:57.140
basically making themselves almost irrelevant.
00:24:57.920 --> 00:25:00.140
And also you have no control over the algorithm
00:25:00.140 --> 00:25:06.400
and how YouTube or Google decides what they decide
00:25:06.400 --> 00:25:11.980
to do. So that's the first thing. I also agree
00:25:11.980 --> 00:25:18.519
with Wendy that the same reason why we still
00:25:18.519 --> 00:25:22.759
have radios and radio still works is still really
00:25:22.759 --> 00:25:25.700
important. And also what you've got to think
00:25:25.700 --> 00:25:29.549
about... At some point, hopefully not at some
00:25:29.549 --> 00:25:32.690
point, but if there was a national emergency,
00:25:33.289 --> 00:25:38.650
what would happen? Are we going to rely on YouTube
00:25:38.650 --> 00:25:42.549
to broadcast directions and things like that?
00:25:42.789 --> 00:25:46.230
Yes, we have our phones saying things, but part
00:25:46.230 --> 00:25:50.130
of the critical infrastructure is around radio
00:25:50.130 --> 00:25:54.990
and TV as well. The final thing I was going to
00:25:54.990 --> 00:25:59.650
say is this also for me, and I'm not encouraging
00:25:59.650 --> 00:26:06.730
people, but it's clear that piracy is growing.
00:26:06.970 --> 00:26:08.910
Well, they're doing everything they possibly
00:26:08.910 --> 00:26:14.150
can to encourage it. I mean, you know. But I'm
00:26:14.150 --> 00:26:16.910
saying that they are. It seems like that way,
00:26:16.910 --> 00:26:20.420
yes. I mean, if they had a plan to increase privacy,
00:26:20.720 --> 00:26:24.400
the rights holders would do exactly what they're
00:26:24.400 --> 00:26:28.279
doing. I mean, everything is on a different subscription
00:26:28.279 --> 00:26:30.539
service. Every subscription service keeps raising
00:26:30.539 --> 00:26:33.940
its prices. You can't find anything. The interfaces
00:26:33.940 --> 00:26:37.839
have not improved in years. You know, it is still
00:26:37.839 --> 00:26:41.380
much easier to find any program on a pirate site
00:26:41.380 --> 00:26:46.559
than it is to find it on Netflix. used to be.
00:26:46.680 --> 00:26:48.960
And I think that that point is really important.
00:26:49.099 --> 00:26:53.440
It's like, okay, imagine there's this equation
00:26:53.440 --> 00:26:56.220
going on in everyone's decisions, like mine.
00:26:56.420 --> 00:26:58.920
And part of that equation is, is this illegal
00:26:58.920 --> 00:27:00.740
and what's the risk of that? And do I feel bad
00:27:00.740 --> 00:27:02.960
about it? One of the things that's made that
00:27:02.960 --> 00:27:06.559
whole decision thing is that part of that equation
00:27:06.559 --> 00:27:11.160
that I think companies don't realize, the organizations
00:27:11.160 --> 00:27:14.160
don't realize, is how much of a jerk are you?
00:27:14.539 --> 00:27:17.079
like how what how ethically how ethical do i
00:27:17.079 --> 00:27:19.700
consider you to be as an organization before
00:27:19.700 --> 00:27:23.240
i compare my ethos to you um so so case in point
00:27:23.240 --> 00:27:26.200
i stopped paying my tv license i do not watch
00:27:26.200 --> 00:27:28.059
live tv in any form i do not watch free video
00:27:28.059 --> 00:27:30.160
i'll watch stuff on like streaming services but
00:27:30.160 --> 00:27:33.140
it's not live and my motivation for that was
00:27:33.140 --> 00:27:37.039
and don't get me wrong i love Doctor Who. I love
00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:39.160
the stuff the BBC does, but I also hate that
00:27:39.160 --> 00:27:41.440
they were platforming Farage all the time. And
00:27:41.440 --> 00:27:43.619
their incredibly strong anti -trans bias was
00:27:43.619 --> 00:27:46.140
the last straw for me. And I went, I can't keep
00:27:46.140 --> 00:27:48.500
giving you my money. You are doing things that
00:27:48.500 --> 00:27:50.640
are hurting people that I care about, in much
00:27:50.640 --> 00:27:53.160
the same way that I can't buy a certain very
00:27:53.160 --> 00:27:55.579
popular fantasy series of books or any merch
00:27:55.579 --> 00:27:57.940
related to it, because the person who wrote that
00:27:57.940 --> 00:28:00.299
has stated flat out the money you give them they
00:28:00.299 --> 00:28:05.380
will take to try to hurt. Wizarding! Sorry? No,
00:28:05.460 --> 00:28:07.779
carry on. I just said wizarding. You just carried
00:28:07.779 --> 00:28:11.359
on. Yeah. And so that's part of the equation.
00:28:11.720 --> 00:28:14.660
The other thing is that it used to be like Netflix
00:28:14.660 --> 00:28:16.420
was where you could find everything. And for
00:28:16.420 --> 00:28:18.779
a lot of folks, it's like, hey, I will happily
00:28:18.779 --> 00:28:23.049
give you 10 to 20 quid a month. to have this
00:28:23.049 --> 00:28:25.029
easy service where if i want to find something
00:28:25.029 --> 00:28:26.990
it's right there and i can use it and i can bring
00:28:26.990 --> 00:28:28.230
it up and i don't have to worry about all this
00:28:28.230 --> 00:28:31.029
faff and then they started slicing it and slicing
00:28:31.029 --> 00:28:33.529
it and slicing it and it became more important
00:28:33.529 --> 00:28:35.309
to them to get you to look at the stuff they
00:28:35.309 --> 00:28:36.630
wanted you to look at than the stuff that you
00:28:36.630 --> 00:28:38.589
were looking for and then they started doing
00:28:38.589 --> 00:28:41.990
things like hey you know what would make us a
00:28:41.990 --> 00:28:45.609
lot of money permanently removing this thing
00:28:45.609 --> 00:28:48.809
from the catalogs in a way that no one can ever
00:28:48.809 --> 00:28:50.549
see it because if we do that it's considered
00:28:50.990 --> 00:28:53.589
dead and then we can take the tax right off which
00:28:53.589 --> 00:28:55.670
is something that they have done they did that
00:28:55.670 --> 00:28:59.210
to infinity train there are shows that are now
00:28:59.210 --> 00:29:02.390
there is no like when they got to the point where
00:29:02.390 --> 00:29:04.109
there have now been multiple people who have
00:29:04.109 --> 00:29:07.329
worked on media who have said i am telling you
00:29:07.329 --> 00:29:10.829
from deep in my heart of hearts go pirate my
00:29:10.829 --> 00:29:13.569
show because there's no way for you to legally
00:29:13.569 --> 00:29:16.589
see it and i i would As someone who has made
00:29:16.589 --> 00:29:19.769
something creative, I want you to see what I
00:29:19.769 --> 00:29:22.930
have done more than I want you to legally pay
00:29:22.930 --> 00:29:25.230
for it. In particular, when there's no way for
00:29:25.230 --> 00:29:29.150
you to do that anymore. And when that starts
00:29:29.150 --> 00:29:33.089
happening, you're like, this is a very profound
00:29:33.089 --> 00:29:34.950
way of saying, oh, you're not here to facilitate
00:29:34.950 --> 00:29:37.029
me seeing what I want to see. You're here to
00:29:37.029 --> 00:29:39.670
really control to the point of you have walked
00:29:39.670 --> 00:29:42.089
up to me, taken something out of my hand and
00:29:42.089 --> 00:29:46.000
said, no, go watch this thing. And at that point,
00:29:46.019 --> 00:29:49.859
the moral argument is so lost. I have to say
00:29:49.859 --> 00:29:52.119
that I am prepared to pay the license fee because
00:29:52.119 --> 00:29:58.240
the BBC is a rare thing. And also because realistically,
00:29:58.819 --> 00:30:01.839
given the number of hours I watch of Wimbledon
00:30:01.839 --> 00:30:04.019
every year, it works out to about 50p an hour.
00:30:04.920 --> 00:30:07.480
Yeah, it's good value. Don't get me wrong. If
00:30:07.480 --> 00:30:09.039
there is something like that that you consider
00:30:09.039 --> 00:30:12.519
valuable, that case is made for it. I'm not saying
00:30:12.519 --> 00:30:14.299
it just for me. I'm not watching anything live
00:30:14.299 --> 00:30:19.980
and I don't care about that. It's a different
00:30:19.980 --> 00:30:21.140
equation for everyone. I'm not trying to say
00:30:21.140 --> 00:30:22.579
that. You don't have any television or radio
00:30:22.579 --> 00:30:26.160
equipment in your home? I don't. All I have is
00:30:26.160 --> 00:30:27.920
a monitor now. That's fine. Then you don't have
00:30:27.920 --> 00:30:32.079
to pay. That's the fact. Is a radio necessary?
00:30:32.299 --> 00:30:35.279
Are they trying to stretch that? I think there
00:30:35.279 --> 00:30:37.980
is still a radio license, which is cheaper than
00:30:37.980 --> 00:30:41.579
a television license. I don't listen to radio
00:30:41.579 --> 00:30:48.200
either. I haven't looked into this in detail.
00:30:48.359 --> 00:30:53.619
This is something that I heard. Vimeo, which
00:30:53.619 --> 00:30:56.509
was one of the... ones that were a competition
00:30:56.509 --> 00:30:59.349
for youtube has just been bought by some other
00:30:59.349 --> 00:31:01.670
company and i'm not quite sure what they're doing
00:31:01.670 --> 00:31:06.109
but it seems like they are um i'm not saying
00:31:06.109 --> 00:31:08.769
they've given up but it seems like they probably
00:31:08.769 --> 00:31:13.109
um will no longer be any competition for youtube
00:31:13.109 --> 00:31:16.349
it wasn't really competition for youtube that's
00:31:16.349 --> 00:31:18.529
not what they were doing well okay but but you
00:31:18.529 --> 00:31:22.490
don't mean that so my whole thing is that just
00:31:22.490 --> 00:31:26.059
going to where the pop where everyone else is
00:31:26.059 --> 00:31:30.440
is not a good solution for public service um
00:31:30.440 --> 00:31:33.599
i think that there there is a lot more to public
00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:36.940
service than just kind of like oh well you know
00:31:36.940 --> 00:31:39.400
what 80 percent of people are here so we're gonna
00:31:39.400 --> 00:31:41.859
do this i just don't think that's good enough
00:31:41.859 --> 00:31:44.440
you know i can see a commercial company going
00:31:44.440 --> 00:31:47.799
yeah that's a good idea but for a public service
00:31:47.799 --> 00:31:51.240
broadcaster i think that's a very very bad idea
00:31:51.240 --> 00:31:54.430
and we've already seen the result of that when
00:31:54.430 --> 00:31:58.650
it comes to X, you know? And I've just, I really
00:31:58.650 --> 00:32:02.670
worry who's making the decisions. I know that,
00:32:02.710 --> 00:32:05.809
and I'll leave it at that. I won't say anything
00:32:05.809 --> 00:32:07.390
more. I was just going to say, it'd be interesting
00:32:07.390 --> 00:32:09.289
when the sort of nuclear submarine has been under
00:32:09.289 --> 00:32:12.089
the Arctic for like, you know, six months. It
00:32:12.089 --> 00:32:14.910
comes up explicitly to see if London still exists.
00:32:15.640 --> 00:32:17.799
There's no Radio 4. It's on YouTube. So they
00:32:17.799 --> 00:32:19.220
go, oh, wait a minute. Who's got to log into
00:32:19.220 --> 00:32:21.220
YouTube? Yeah, who's logging through YouTube?
00:32:21.359 --> 00:32:24.680
Okay, let's just check. I don't think the BBC
00:32:24.680 --> 00:32:27.220
is saying, I don't think they're saying that
00:32:27.220 --> 00:32:29.220
they're going to turn off Freeview in favor of
00:32:29.220 --> 00:32:31.819
YouTube. They're planning to make a deal to put
00:32:31.819 --> 00:32:34.940
some of their content on YouTube. Doctor Who,
00:32:35.019 --> 00:32:38.200
in fact, was one of those things. But it won't
00:32:38.200 --> 00:32:41.319
only be on YouTube. And I presume that the BBC
00:32:41.319 --> 00:32:43.660
will have its own servers that people can access,
00:32:43.740 --> 00:32:47.819
as it does now. I think the idea is eventually
00:32:47.819 --> 00:32:51.720
to turn off Freeview. I think they want to turn
00:32:51.720 --> 00:32:53.640
off Freeview, but they want you to go to the
00:32:53.640 --> 00:32:57.200
BBC's own site and stream from there. It's not
00:32:57.200 --> 00:32:59.900
that they want to put everything on some other
00:32:59.900 --> 00:33:03.099
company. I think they have to offer. No, I think
00:33:03.099 --> 00:33:06.180
they do. That's a pretty basic model of the British
00:33:06.180 --> 00:33:11.529
government is they want desperately. to not have
00:33:11.529 --> 00:33:14.190
to do anything and they will take any excuse
00:33:14.190 --> 00:33:16.509
they can like like it's it's like is is there
00:33:16.509 --> 00:33:19.130
any possible way we can privatize this and give
00:33:19.130 --> 00:33:20.910
this to someone preferably someone that when
00:33:20.910 --> 00:33:23.190
they're offering when they're doing the rounds
00:33:23.190 --> 00:33:27.130
for deciding on on the fee if they're still going
00:33:27.130 --> 00:33:30.809
to be a a you know fee for bbc um one of the
00:33:30.809 --> 00:33:33.009
offers will be we promise not to have anything
00:33:33.009 --> 00:33:34.809
it'll all be on youtube they have to offer that
00:33:34.809 --> 00:33:37.559
as an opportunity It's as simple as that. Taken
00:33:37.559 --> 00:33:39.640
or not, that'll be what they offer. That's exactly
00:33:39.640 --> 00:33:42.960
what they offer. And they're starting with putting
00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:46.240
things like Doctor Who on YouTube. That's a start.
00:33:46.480 --> 00:33:49.400
I mean, so Wendy, okay, so I know what you're
00:33:49.400 --> 00:33:52.339
saying, Wendy, and I also don't know, I think
00:33:52.339 --> 00:33:53.859
they probably are still kind of like trying to
00:33:53.859 --> 00:33:56.400
drive people to use iPlayer on their own site.
00:33:57.059 --> 00:34:02.380
But... I think this sets a precedent which I'm
00:34:02.380 --> 00:34:06.160
not comfortable with. And I feel like as the
00:34:06.160 --> 00:34:10.039
BBC is under so much pressure to save money...
00:34:10.570 --> 00:34:14.809
it becomes very easy to kind of go, well, we
00:34:14.809 --> 00:34:17.730
don't need to host all of that infrastructure
00:34:17.730 --> 00:34:22.190
ourselves. This has happened before when the
00:34:22.190 --> 00:34:24.489
BBC used to have a ton of its own infrastructure
00:34:24.489 --> 00:34:29.090
and then it switched to using Amazon's web services
00:34:29.090 --> 00:34:31.710
instead because Amazon web services were seen
00:34:31.710 --> 00:34:35.190
as superior and let's use that. And I could see
00:34:35.190 --> 00:34:37.210
a similar thing happening where they kind of
00:34:37.210 --> 00:34:42.440
go, well, it's possible. turn off the bbc yes
00:34:42.440 --> 00:34:48.320
yeah absolutely actually can i can i i feel like
00:34:48.320 --> 00:34:50.619
we're conflating two things here like we're talking
00:34:50.619 --> 00:34:54.780
about a like so shifting bbc content to youtube
00:34:54.780 --> 00:34:58.300
isn't the same thing as turning off preview it
00:34:58.300 --> 00:35:01.119
could be something that's done as as a support
00:35:01.119 --> 00:35:05.579
thing towards moving to turning on but if we're
00:35:05.579 --> 00:35:07.639
talking about the bbc just going hey we want
00:35:07.639 --> 00:35:09.400
to make some of our content available on youtube
00:35:09.400 --> 00:35:13.599
because then they pay for hosting it like i i
00:35:13.599 --> 00:35:16.480
have less of a problem with that in some ways
00:35:16.480 --> 00:35:18.039
but more of a problem because then it's like
00:35:18.039 --> 00:35:21.389
yeah but then youtube controls YouTube gets to,
00:35:21.429 --> 00:35:23.630
like, try to redirect you from, you know, you're
00:35:23.630 --> 00:35:25.230
going to go watch Bagpuss and all of a sudden,
00:35:25.329 --> 00:35:28.489
like, you'll never get BBC going, if you like
00:35:28.489 --> 00:35:31.690
Bagpuss, have you tried Paw Patrol? And, like,
00:35:31.690 --> 00:35:33.969
YouTube would do that to you in a hot second.
00:35:34.530 --> 00:35:36.889
And selling taxidermic sites. You know, I mean,
00:35:36.889 --> 00:35:39.769
that's also a problem. Yeah, I can't imagine
00:35:39.769 --> 00:35:44.110
recommendations for these things. I just, once
00:35:44.110 --> 00:35:49.820
again, we're giving up control to... a company
00:35:49.820 --> 00:35:52.400
which is a company that wants to make the most
00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:55.139
amount of money and i just feel like these things
00:35:55.139 --> 00:36:00.039
do it's really problematic and the bbc is in
00:36:00.039 --> 00:36:02.960
a position right now where it can't dictate the
00:36:02.960 --> 00:36:06.800
terms unless the government kind of goes, hey,
00:36:07.039 --> 00:36:10.900
YouTube in the UK must do this. And right now,
00:36:10.940 --> 00:36:13.360
I don't think that's going to happen. Can I also
00:36:13.360 --> 00:36:16.860
just say, before I finish, sorry, is that I was
00:36:16.860 --> 00:36:20.800
going to add to the end of the AOBs that the
00:36:20.800 --> 00:36:24.900
green paper is available. You can tell the government
00:36:24.900 --> 00:36:27.900
exactly what you think of this stuff. Go do it
00:36:27.900 --> 00:36:32.059
now. I'll put a link in the show notes. What
00:36:32.059 --> 00:36:34.119
is a green paper and how does that apply here?
00:36:34.519 --> 00:36:38.099
Oh, so the green paper, so every 10 years, the
00:36:38.099 --> 00:36:41.960
BBC, sorry, BBC, every 10 years, there's a Royal
00:36:41.960 --> 00:36:44.599
Charter. The Royal Charter tells public service
00:36:44.599 --> 00:36:48.440
broadcasters like the BBC what they can do or
00:36:48.440 --> 00:36:50.659
what they should be doing. Brian, every government
00:36:50.659 --> 00:36:52.800
proposal, there's a green paper, then a white
00:36:52.800 --> 00:36:55.719
paper, then draft legislation, and then finish.
00:36:55.739 --> 00:36:57.559
But it's specifically about the Royal Charter.
00:36:58.219 --> 00:37:00.800
Right. Okay. So while it's in green paper phase,
00:37:00.960 --> 00:37:03.679
there's a chance for the public to opine and
00:37:03.679 --> 00:37:06.860
have their voices heard. It can be changed at
00:37:06.860 --> 00:37:10.980
this stage. Yes. Yeah. Okay. This is a good chance
00:37:10.980 --> 00:37:14.820
to actually have your say and actually write
00:37:14.820 --> 00:37:17.019
something. And it's open, by the way, it's open
00:37:17.019 --> 00:37:19.900
to anyone in the world. It isn't just the UK,
00:37:20.099 --> 00:37:23.239
which is interesting. Which is why you might
00:37:23.239 --> 00:37:25.539
find I've mentioned YouTube and Doctor Who, but
00:37:25.539 --> 00:37:27.179
not by accident, because YouTube are probably
00:37:27.179 --> 00:37:29.400
going to, if they get the opportunity, they will
00:37:29.400 --> 00:37:31.699
try to buy Doctor Who because it makes sense
00:37:31.699 --> 00:37:34.320
because they're trying to crack open this very
00:37:34.320 --> 00:37:37.679
gap of, oh, if we just get this. I was going
00:37:37.679 --> 00:37:40.079
to make the point, but I didn't want to interrupt
00:37:40.079 --> 00:37:42.940
Ian, which is that even if the content remains
00:37:42.940 --> 00:37:44.440
the same, they don't recommend it, they're still
00:37:44.440 --> 00:37:46.039
going to frame it in all of their advertising,
00:37:46.340 --> 00:37:48.400
which the BBC will have no control over. And
00:37:48.400 --> 00:37:50.179
especially in the context of something like.
00:37:50.400 --> 00:37:52.719
the BBC, which is famous for not doing advertising,
00:37:53.059 --> 00:37:58.320
there is, I believe, a spirit of the contract
00:37:58.320 --> 00:38:01.719
that is fundamentally broken by agreeing to serve
00:38:01.719 --> 00:38:05.079
it in a frame that will advertise. If it's just
00:38:05.079 --> 00:38:07.699
a banner ad at the top, that's still advertising
00:38:07.699 --> 00:38:11.420
happening along with BBC content. Can I also
00:38:11.420 --> 00:38:15.179
just add, don't forget that Doctor Who is...
00:38:15.440 --> 00:38:18.039
co -produced by disney already that contract's
00:38:18.039 --> 00:38:19.800
gone yeah yeah but i mean that that contract
00:38:19.800 --> 00:38:22.239
oh okay that's the reason i'm saying it because
00:38:22.239 --> 00:38:24.639
they're timing it with the green paper because
00:38:24.639 --> 00:38:28.039
they want to go obviously it's only a few people
00:38:28.039 --> 00:38:30.059
but youtube are one who can think oh wait a minute
00:38:30.059 --> 00:38:31.639
if we offered to pay that'll look good and then
00:38:31.639 --> 00:38:34.440
maybe we can get a crack open when we're there
00:38:34.440 --> 00:38:36.440
when the royal charter is being done it's not
00:38:36.440 --> 00:38:43.969
an accident All right. And that's it for the
00:38:43.969 --> 00:38:46.329
main juicy topics of Tech Grumps. And the only
00:38:46.329 --> 00:38:50.010
thing we have left to do is AOB. Ian, you got
00:38:50.010 --> 00:38:54.670
a couple of those for us. I do. So another podcast
00:38:54.670 --> 00:38:57.769
that I've mentioned a few times, but we had an
00:38:57.769 --> 00:39:01.750
actual guest this time and it's Albert Fox Khan.
00:39:02.369 --> 00:39:06.929
And I will put the link to the podcast and that
00:39:06.929 --> 00:39:10.949
podcast episode. And the second one is. As I
00:39:10.949 --> 00:39:14.730
said before, please feed into the future of the
00:39:14.730 --> 00:39:17.610
BBC or the future of public service in the UK.
00:39:18.449 --> 00:39:20.690
There will be a link to the green paper, the
00:39:20.690 --> 00:39:23.289
government green paper. And it takes a little
00:39:23.289 --> 00:39:25.409
while, but it's worth doing it because we need
00:39:25.409 --> 00:39:30.449
your voice. And my little AOB is a little bit
00:39:30.449 --> 00:39:32.150
of heartwarming news in the middle of a very
00:39:32.150 --> 00:39:34.429
difficult time for those of you podcast listeners
00:39:34.429 --> 00:39:36.949
who don't know. I am from Minneapolis. I grew
00:39:36.949 --> 00:39:39.380
up there. I've been in the UK for 20 years, but
00:39:39.380 --> 00:39:41.940
in the news, there's been a lovely fellow by
00:39:41.940 --> 00:39:45.320
the name of Greg Ketterer, who runs a bookshop
00:39:45.320 --> 00:39:49.639
in Minneapolis called Dreamhaven Books. And he
00:39:49.639 --> 00:39:54.599
kind of became a bit of a, you know, folk hero
00:39:54.599 --> 00:39:57.880
of the revolution. He went out to a protest and
00:39:57.880 --> 00:40:00.079
there were some amazing shots, completely unintentionally
00:40:00.079 --> 00:40:03.789
taken of him. He is a lovely... fellow uh lovely
00:40:03.789 --> 00:40:05.889
like he's like the grandpa you hoped you have
00:40:05.889 --> 00:40:08.889
i've bought books from him and while a lot of
00:40:08.889 --> 00:40:11.570
stuff going on is bad this is a person who i
00:40:11.570 --> 00:40:13.449
can't think of a person in minneapolis who doesn't
00:40:13.449 --> 00:40:15.349
like this guy and it's really nice to see him
00:40:15.349 --> 00:40:18.010
being recognized so go go look up greg ketterer
00:40:18.010 --> 00:40:23.690
on that and that is it for aobs the only thing
00:40:23.690 --> 00:40:27.349
left for us to do is to say goodbye so from tech
00:40:27.349 --> 00:40:34.309
grumps ian bye bye David, let's go to Wendy while
00:40:34.309 --> 00:40:37.849
David figures out how to unmute. Bye. Sorry.
00:40:38.090 --> 00:40:41.170
And David. I turned this whole system off. And
00:40:41.170 --> 00:40:45.440
me. Ryan, bye -bye from Tech Grumps. If you would
00:40:45.440 --> 00:40:48.179
like to join us on Tech Grumps, feel free to
00:40:48.179 --> 00:40:51.280
just use the hashtag Tech Grumps. We will keep
00:40:51.280 --> 00:40:53.739
an eye out for it and come and talk to you. We
00:40:53.739 --> 00:40:56.699
will be trying to find you on Blue Sky and on
00:40:56.699 --> 00:40:59.380
Mastodon, but we don't look at X because we don't
00:40:59.380 --> 00:41:00.239
want to get arrested.