The Problem With Uploading Your Consciousness _ Cosmic Queries _105

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What if there's no Big Rip?
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Right now, the odds are there is not going to
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be a Big Rip because of the necessity, the condition
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that a Big Rip requires this idea of phantom energy
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being the dark energy component of the universe.
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Well, then what is dark energy, Chuck?
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I don't know.
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I have no idea.
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Don't come up with an attitude while you address my
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guest here.
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Yeah.
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This is StarTalk Special Edition. Neil deGrasse Tyson here, your
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personal astrophysicist. And if it's Special Edition, you know that
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means Gary O'Reilly's in the house. Gary, how you doing, man?
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I'm good, Neil.
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I'm good. It's cold, but I'm feeling okay.
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Cold, that's all right. It's colder than your UK roots
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would ever have delivered for you in this moment, for sure.
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But we are getting the World Cup.
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Yes.
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And you used to play professional soccer. Yes.
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I'm interested.
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Okay.
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And we've got Chuck Nice, baby. How you doing, man?
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That's right, Chuck Nice, who played no soccer, no football,
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no nothing.
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So this is a special edition grab bag. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
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And we have, for certain grab bags, only ones that, like,
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achieve great heights. We put up the bat signal to
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call in the geek in chief. Charles Liu. Charles, how
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you doing, man?
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Hey!
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Our returning champion, Chuck Liu!
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It is so good to be back with you all.
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I played soccer when I was a kid, too. I
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was usually the goal.
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Ooh.
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Not the goalie.
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Not the goalie.
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The goal.
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The goal, okay. So then he twisted his ankle and
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he turned to astrophysics thereafter. Yeah, okay. Yeah, so, Charles,
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you're a professor?
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Yes.
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Is it physics and astronomy or just astrophysics?
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Both of those, yeah.
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Yeah, yeah. At City University of New York on Staten Island.
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Yes, that's right.
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And you also, I'm loving the fact that every couple
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of years there's a book that comes out of you.
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Most recently in the Handy Answer series.
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Yes.
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It's a series of books where, you know, you just
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want to, you know, they're not going to insult you
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by saying it's for dummies.
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Yes.
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That's right.
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They want to elevate you and say, we know you're curious.
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We know you've got questions.
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Awesome.
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And so this one is the handy, the latest, the
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handy quantum physics question book.
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Yep.
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Right here.
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That's it right there. Oh, sorry.
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The handy quantum physics answer book.
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Answer book.
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That's right.
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That's right.
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Question book.
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Right.
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You see, these days, answers we have, right? So if
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you want an answer, here it is. But what we
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really need to do is to know what questions to
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ask next. If we're moving forward in the science, this
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is a guidebook, right? It's not a textbook or anything,
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but it's like, here, you want some answers? Here they are.
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And a lot of people, they've heard, you know, quantum
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is all the buzzwords lately.
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It really is.
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And they just want to become fluent in it, which
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is a great way to make that happen.
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Right.
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Now, we solicited questions from our fan base, but we
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told them that they were going to you.
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Oh.
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So those who are already plugged into your geekin' chiefitude...
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You probably are going to take us there, but I
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haven't seen the questions. So who's got the questions? Gary, Chuck?
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We do.
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We do.
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Chuck and I. I'll start us off. This first question.
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By the way, before we go any further, Chuck, I
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don't know if you can see this, but that's you
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next to Michelle Obama on my Kindle, baby.
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Dude.
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That's right. Oh.
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Yeah, man. I am truly honored.
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There you go, buddy. That's you right there. You see that?
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That's you on my Kindle.
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You are so kind. So a picture of his book
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is next to a picture of her book.
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No, it's his book. It's just in digital form.
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You just said, I have a picture of you next
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to Michelle Obama. I said, I didn't know my boy
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was hanging out with Michelle.
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Oh, well, yeah, it's his book and her book. I
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don't know her.
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Okay. Hence my confusion here. Okay. All right. Let's start
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these questions off. Who's got the first one?
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All right.
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I'll kick us off. And no more football, soccer references.
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Morgan Fisher from Waterloo, Ontario. It's a slightly longer one,
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so bear with me. It is my understanding that quarks
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always exist in pairs, and separating the pairs creates enough
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energy to generate a new quark.
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Here's my question.
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If the universe ends in a big rip, that means
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that everything right down to quarks will be torn apart,
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but tearing apart quarks generates new quarks. Could this mean
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another Big Bang? If so, does this provide evidence that
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our current universe is simply one in an infinite number
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of universes that emerge, exist, then undergo another big rip?
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from the infinite past to the infinite future.
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And that's a variant on an earlier question that we
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got that none of us could answer. And if a
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nucleon is falling into a black hole and the tidal
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forces become so great, it breaks apart the nucleon into
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quarks and then it wants to break apart the quarks.
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It breaks apart the quark, it forms two new quarks.
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And it just keeps doing that all the way down
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to the singularity. And it seemed to me you would
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have a quark catastrophe. if that kept up. We took
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it to.
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Brian Greene.
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Brian Greene. Everybody's scratching their head. This feels like the
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same kind of question, Charles.
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Well, it's a little bit different, but we'll address that
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big rip part first.
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Okay.
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Remember, this question, which is a great question, by the way,
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love our Canadian friends who come up with great questions,
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come up with great answers too. The issue is that
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the big rip is a scenario of the expanding universe
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and the end of the universe that is true only
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if dark energy has a particular kind of characteristic where
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it's kind of negative, okay? That's known often as the
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phantom energy scenario of dark energy. And for that to
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be true, then that would mean that when quarks split
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up because of some sort of internal energy, not like
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what we're trying to do, but like some sort of
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a dark energy split, they won't create new quarks.
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Why not?
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Because of the dark energy characteristic. The phantom dark energy
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itself basically allows for the creation of negative particles or
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negative energy particles. And these things don't exist as far
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as we have ever found.
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Wait, so we split the quark, then I have an
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isolated quark sitting out there, minding its own business?
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No, you split the quark and it becomes something completely different.
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It doesn't become quarks anymore. Oh, so it's a different-
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You want it with a decay of sorts.
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It's a different reaction.
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Right, right. So you're not worried about that aspect of
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things if it's not a big rip.
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Chuck, I think he's trying to wiggle out of this one.
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What do you think?
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No.
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It's a different particle.
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If you want me to circle back to what Jana
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and Brian were trying to talk about, I don't have
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any more insight than they do. They are much closer
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to the forefront of quantum research than I am. But
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what I would say is that you're thinking of a
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quantum particle like a quark, like a classical particle, which
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feels tidal forces, right? If you think of a quark
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instead of a thing that can be pulled apart, like
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our bodies, like from our noses to our feet or
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something like that, then you get this weird catastrophe. But
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if you think of it as a packet of energy
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or quantum information, then as it falls in, it doesn't
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get stretched physically. It gets changed in a way, perhaps,
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because of the tremendous gravitational tides and influences, but it
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will not actually wind up with more quarks. You'll wind
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up with a bundle of energy going to the event
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horizon and the event horizon growing to encompass it. That's
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my intuition. I think I would have to work the
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math out to make sure.
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But Morgan's question is predicated on the fact that there
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is a big rip. Correct. And therefore, it becomes rinse
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and repeat. But what if there's no big rip?
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That's right. Right now, the odds are there is not
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going to be a big rip.
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Really?
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Because of the necessity, the condition that a big rip requires,
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as far as we know, this idea of phantom energy
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being the dark energy component of the universe. And that
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would imply that we should see negative energy particles popping
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out in the universe like randomly generated.
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Do they have negative gravity?
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They would have negative gravity. They would be able to
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push space forward. The Alcubierre warp drive, for example, could
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be found. All those kinds of things.
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We could make wormholes.
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That is another possibility. But we don't see them. We
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haven't seen a single wormhole. We haven't seen a single
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white hole. So the existence of those things has not
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yet been confirmed and appears to be contradicted or refuted
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by the fact that we don't see these things. That
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phantom energy is not what dark energy actually is.
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But that's the opposite of in math well then let
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it since we don't know so then what is dark
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energy chuck i.
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Don't know i have no idea i have zero idea
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all we have.
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An attitude while you address my guest.
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Here it's okay it's okay listen here's something yeah i
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have no idea but i'll tell you something else that's
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been really interesting maybe we can save this for later
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in the show if there are other questions regarding this
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but I was at the American Astronomical Society meeting not
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too long ago in Phoenix, and I was just so happy.
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There was just a lovely time. I'm still basking in it,
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even though it's been a little while. But one of
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the last speeches, one of the last talks in that
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conference was about the nature of dark energy. The Dark
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Energy Survey, which has now gathered information about 15 million
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galaxies and where they're placed in the universe, seems to
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show that what we have counted as dark energy, the
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cosmological constant, is probably not constant. It looks like it's
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actually changing, which is really amazing, which adds still more
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speculation as to what this dark energy actually is, because
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you have to account for the fact that it looks
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like the universe doesn't have a constant cosmological constant.
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And just to be clear, our assumption that it was
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constant comes directly from Einstein's equations. Correct. His equations require
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it to be constant. So if it's not constant, it
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means Einstein's general relativity is missing something about it as
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a model of the universe.
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Not so smart are you now, Einstein, are you?
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No, it just means that lambda, the number that he
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had put as a number, is a function of time.
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It changes the equations. It means that Albert And he
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himself admitted it. It was a temporary thing that made
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the equations work. He had no idea if there was
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anything physical about it. And so now we're actually trying
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to see whether Albert's prediction of its existence is leading
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to something physical. And so the fact that it might
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be dependent on time or the age of the universe
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is further evidence that it is something physical and not
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just mathematical.
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Oh, snap. Yeah. Okay, but that really makes sense. That
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makes things super freaky then. Like, if you're factoring in
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time as part of the equation, that's insane.
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That's a whole other dimension.
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I mean, you've opened up a whole new world.
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That's right.
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You know?
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That's crazy.
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That's right.
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Oh, my God.
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It shows you how far away from knowing certainty we are.
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Absolutely.
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95% of the material in the universe is still wholly
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unknown to human science.
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Only 95%.
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96.
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Okay, maybe 96.
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We'll have this figured out in no time.
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We're almost there.
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We're almost there, man. We've got 96% more to figure out.
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I would have worded that slightly differently. I would say
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90% 5% of what is driving the universe is unknown
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to us, rather than 95% of the material. Because I
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don't know if it's material. Who knows what it is?
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You don't know.
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Yeah, right. You don't even know if it's material. We
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can't even say if we can call it material.
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Right.
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Yeah.
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I use the term material to be as general as possible.
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I didn't call it matter. I didn't call it energy.
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I didn't call it particles. Right.
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Right.
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I mean, the even better ambiguous word would be like
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the stuff of the stuff. Right. Yeah.
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I kind of like that stuff.
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Anyway, lots, lots in there to unpack for the future.
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Yeah. And for those who are, who are ego, who
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want to be ego stroked, this is the opposite of that, where,
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you know, we're not even the majority of the stuff
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in the universe.
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Right. Right.
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Not by a long shot. Yeah.
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Crying your pillow on that one.
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I got to tell you, doesn't doesn't bode well for
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the creationists. That's I'm just saying I'm not trying to
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start anything. I'm just saying, all right, I'm God and
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I'm sitting up here. I'm like, I'm going to create
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a universe. And I think I'm going to let you
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guys have four percent of it. But it's all for you.
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The whole thing is for you.
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No, I love you. I love you.
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I love you.
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And it's all for you. I mean, 4%. That's what
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00:13:26.919 --> 00:13:31.259
you get. Little known fact about me. I'm an entrepreneur,
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00:13:31.419 --> 00:13:35.240
but I come from a family of entrepreneurs. My father
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00:13:35.279 --> 00:13:39.259
was an entrepreneur. My grandmother was an entrepreneur. And my
309
00:13:39.340 --> 00:13:43.220
great-grandmother was an entrepreneur. I know how hard it is
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00:13:43.279 --> 00:13:46.080
and how scary it can be. And you're not entirely
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00:13:46.159 --> 00:13:48.350
sure it's going to work out. And it can be
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00:13:48.509 --> 00:13:51.169
hard to make that leap of faith. That's why it
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00:13:51.230 --> 00:13:54.009
helps to have a partner like Shopify by your side.
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the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the U.S.
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From household names like Death Wish Coffee and Magic Spoon
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to brands that are just getting started. With hundreds of
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ready to use templates, Shopify helps you build a beautiful
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online store that matches your brand style and get the
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word out like you have a marketing team behind you.
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With Shopify, you can easily create email and social media
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campaigns wherever your customers are scrolling or strolling. It's time
323
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to turn those what ifs. into sales with Shopify today.
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Sign up for your $ 1 per month trial today at Shopify.com
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slash StarTalk. Go to Shopify.com slash StarTalk. One more time,
326
00:14:47.840 --> 00:14:52.519
that's Shopify.com slash StarTalk. And I want to be a
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00:14:52.539 --> 00:14:54.590
silent partner in your business because you're going to be
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00:14:54.730 --> 00:14:57.450
very successful. All right, here we go.
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00:14:57.669 --> 00:14:58.870
You got another one. Bring it on.
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Here we go. This is Raphael, who says, greetings, Dr.
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Tysons and Lou, and of course, the cosmological constant Lord Nice,
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Raphael Vigod. In Toronto, Canada, okay? He gave me the
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00:15:15.330 --> 00:15:17.750
phonetic spelling of his name. I still think I got
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00:15:17.789 --> 00:15:21.190
it wrong. The behavior of light seems to be intrinsic
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to both relativity and quantum mechanics, yet the two systems
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cannot be reconciled, at least not so far. Is there
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a single explanation for this, and is the imposition of
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observation or measurement an obstacle that just can't be overcome?
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Dang.
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I like that.
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Wow, Chuck.
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Okay.
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The answer is the key to the answer, shall we say, Raphael.
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And again, an excellent question is we have not yet
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reconciled the situation. You see, general relativity's mathematical equations operate
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well down to a particular limit. But at that limit,
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it stops working in terms of how it explains how
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the universe works.
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00:16:06.759 --> 00:16:09.720
Could you just give us a little overview there? Because
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you say that, but what you're saying requires a lot
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of understanding.
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Sure. Real basic. Einstein's general theory of relativity, in very
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general terms, talks about space and time and how that
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00:16:25.360 --> 00:16:30.820
interacts with us. Quantum mechanics, this quantum world stuff, it
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00:16:31.100 --> 00:16:35.039
deals most with matter and energy on the tiniest scales
356
00:16:35.080 --> 00:16:38.529
and how we interact with that. When they come together...
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space and time, matter and energy, they seem to have
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a problem getting through from one to the other. In
359
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other words, the math of quantum physics doesn't work really
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well when we're talking about space and time. And the
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mathematics of general relativity don't seem to work very well
362
00:16:56.159 --> 00:16:58.659
when we're trying to talk about little subatomic particles.
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00:16:58.679 --> 00:17:01.419
So there's some kind of shotgun wedding waiting to happen
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00:17:01.440 --> 00:17:03.399
with somebody who has a new way to bring them together.
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00:17:03.500 --> 00:17:07.930
Once you can combine them, right, then we're in good shape. Now,
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People are working on this. Light does seem to be
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a place where you both somehow, for example, have a
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00:17:16.150 --> 00:17:18.809
maximum speed of light, right? Speed of light is the
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00:17:18.849 --> 00:17:21.970
maximum speed at which any object can move through space
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and time. Meanwhile, matter and energy, right? Light is both
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00:17:27.009 --> 00:17:29.210
a particle in a wave and its energy, which can
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be converted into matter, things like that. So light does
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seem to be some sort of linchpin in this sort
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of shotgun wedding that Neil was talking about. But it
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00:17:37.410 --> 00:17:41.259
might not be shotgun. I'll venture this. Neil, you and
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00:17:41.319 --> 00:17:44.720
I both know a very, very, very good guy named
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00:17:44.839 --> 00:17:50.200
Jacob Berendis. Jacob is a preceptor at Harvard University. And
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00:17:50.539 --> 00:17:52.589
he has recently- Jacob Berendis.
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00:17:53.119 --> 00:17:55.930
When I was in graduate school, he was in high school.
380
00:17:56.569 --> 00:18:00.490
And he programmed my website at the time. That's the
381
00:18:00.529 --> 00:18:01.450
same Jacob Berendis.
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00:18:01.569 --> 00:18:02.910
It's that same Jacob Berendis, yes.
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Wow.
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00:18:04.569 --> 00:18:07.450
But yes, that Jacob, who is now a preceptor at Harvard.
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He has written and published some articles just recently. He's
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00:18:12.190 --> 00:18:14.849
an example of one of the many scientists that's trying
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to tie these systems together. And what he is basically
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00:18:18.769 --> 00:18:22.539
saying is that there is actually a mathematical way to
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00:18:22.619 --> 00:18:28.119
bridge general relativity, the macroscopic world, with quantum mechanics in
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the microscopic world. And it has to do with the
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00:18:30.819 --> 00:18:35.359
math of statistical physics and chaos theory and the ability
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to take things which are uncertain and make them more certain.
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Not all the way certain, but more certain. And that
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00:18:42.990 --> 00:18:48.079
pulled out from the microscopic to the macroscopic unites the
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00:18:48.130 --> 00:18:51.980
two areas of physics. But we're not quite there yet.
396
00:18:52.299 --> 00:18:55.599
That's just one hypothesis that appears to work, sort of.
397
00:18:56.119 --> 00:18:57.680
And then there's going to be a lot more work
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00:18:57.700 --> 00:18:59.200
and a lot more people have to keep working on it.
399
00:18:59.640 --> 00:19:02.769
So in that case, if Jacob and his colleagues are right,
400
00:19:03.250 --> 00:19:08.750
then the wave-particle duality is only temporary. This incompatibility is
401
00:19:08.809 --> 00:19:11.490
only there because we're not advanced enough yet in our
402
00:19:11.549 --> 00:19:15.130
mathematical construction of physics to unite them.
403
00:19:15.950 --> 00:19:16.579
Interesting.
404
00:19:16.640 --> 00:19:19.019
If it were a Venn diagram and you've got quantum
405
00:19:19.400 --> 00:19:22.559
in one circle and general relativity in another, is there
406
00:19:22.579 --> 00:19:25.240
a crossover at all or are they two separate?
407
00:19:26.140 --> 00:19:29.789
At the moment, they just touch. They do not have
408
00:19:30.069 --> 00:19:33.289
any crossover area at If we're talking about Venn diagrams.
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00:19:33.349 --> 00:19:35.289
For anyone who doesn't know what a Venn diagram is,
410
00:19:35.369 --> 00:19:37.559
it's a box and then you've got little circles that
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00:19:37.619 --> 00:19:39.920
come overlapping things to sort of show.
412
00:19:39.940 --> 00:19:42.500
Wait, who uses a box in a Venn diagram?
413
00:19:42.519 --> 00:19:47.369
That's the universal set on the outside. Oh, okay. Yeah, right. Otherwise,
414
00:19:47.390 --> 00:19:50.490
you use little circles. I'm a circle Venn diagram guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
415
00:19:50.809 --> 00:19:54.240
No, no, but if you have GR and quantum just
416
00:19:54.319 --> 00:19:58.700
kissing in the middle, the way physics has worked historically
417
00:19:58.799 --> 00:20:01.079
is somebody's going to come up with, and maybe it's
418
00:20:01.099 --> 00:20:05.869
this Jacob-Berendt solution. With another circle that encloses both of
419
00:20:05.900 --> 00:20:06.829
them within.
420
00:20:07.089 --> 00:20:07.569
Yes.
421
00:20:08.369 --> 00:20:08.670
That's right.
422
00:20:08.769 --> 00:20:11.049
And so it's not like you shift somewhere else and
423
00:20:11.269 --> 00:20:14.170
discard anything that has already been demonstrated to work.
424
00:20:14.329 --> 00:20:16.890
That's exactly what Einstein did with Newtonian physics.
425
00:20:17.150 --> 00:20:19.990
Exactly. Yeah.
426
00:20:20.339 --> 00:20:21.200
So we'll see how that goes.
427
00:20:22.160 --> 00:20:23.940
Excellent. All right. Great question.
428
00:20:23.960 --> 00:20:24.519
Give me some more.
429
00:20:24.819 --> 00:20:27.700
Ready for the next one. Right. This is from Andrew D.
430
00:20:28.079 --> 00:20:32.460
Greetings, Drs. Tyson, Lou, and of course, Lord Nice. Andrew
431
00:20:32.539 --> 00:20:35.940
Dack from Minneapolis. Well, stay safe and stay warm, sir.
432
00:20:36.710 --> 00:20:42.150
The question goes as such. The path integral formulation calculates
433
00:20:42.230 --> 00:20:46.490
probabilities by summing overall possible paths a particle could take.
434
00:20:46.869 --> 00:20:50.859
The two-state vector formalism describes quantum systems using both a
435
00:20:50.940 --> 00:20:54.819
forward-evolving state from the past and a backward-evolving state from
436
00:20:54.859 --> 00:20:58.720
the future. Both suggest quantum mechanics can be written with
437
00:20:58.859 --> 00:21:03.170
boundary conditions at both ends of time, not just initial conditions.
438
00:21:03.849 --> 00:21:04.230
It goes on.
439
00:21:04.710 --> 00:21:05.670
Sorry about this being as.
440
00:21:05.630 --> 00:21:07.049
Long as it is, but it's complicated. No, no, no,
441
00:21:07.069 --> 00:21:08.490
this is good. That background is good.
442
00:21:08.829 --> 00:21:12.710
Has this led to experimental predictions that differ from standard
443
00:21:12.769 --> 00:21:18.130
quantum mechanics? And do physicists take retrocausality seriously as part
444
00:21:18.150 --> 00:21:22.970
of reality's actual structure? Could retrocausality be evidence of a
445
00:21:23.089 --> 00:21:28.849
four-dimensional deterministic universe where the indeterminacy of we observe is
446
00:21:28.890 --> 00:21:33.589
just our limited perspective of a structure that is already complete.
447
00:21:35.039 --> 00:21:37.220
All right. So first of all, let me just say this.
448
00:21:37.299 --> 00:21:39.539
Let me just say this, Chuck, before you. This is
449
00:21:39.599 --> 00:21:43.799
not the place to show off. All right? This is
450
00:21:43.859 --> 00:21:48.160
not the place to show off, Mr. Andrew D.
451
00:21:51.509 --> 00:21:51.809
All right.
452
00:21:51.849 --> 00:21:54.789
Before you answer that, Chuck, there's so many things that
453
00:21:54.809 --> 00:21:57.750
he packed in there. You got to explain them, man.
454
00:21:58.569 --> 00:22:00.710
By the way, just a shout out to my wife.
455
00:22:01.210 --> 00:22:04.910
We met in graduate school. She got her PhD in physics.
456
00:22:05.049 --> 00:22:09.930
She specialized. Her PhD thesis was on path intervals. And
457
00:22:10.289 --> 00:22:13.410
that was her entire, so technically her PhD is in
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00:22:13.450 --> 00:22:14.369
mathematical physics.
459
00:22:14.509 --> 00:22:14.690
Right.
460
00:22:14.970 --> 00:22:17.490
And so I was like gluting in on that as
461
00:22:17.559 --> 00:22:19.059
the question unfolded. Yes.
462
00:22:19.579 --> 00:22:20.240
No, that's a great point.
463
00:22:20.299 --> 00:22:24.119
Isn't that something that in Neil's family, he ain't even
464
00:22:24.160 --> 00:22:24.779
the smart one.
465
00:22:26.670 --> 00:22:29.230
It's true. My family too. I'm a big fan.
466
00:22:29.390 --> 00:22:30.329
Yes, I have it.
467
00:22:30.700 --> 00:22:34.480
I had the pleasure to meet all various spouses and
468
00:22:34.839 --> 00:22:37.660
like none of us can match up to our spouses
469
00:22:38.420 --> 00:22:40.759
in their brilliance. It's so true.
470
00:22:41.720 --> 00:22:42.420
Well, okay.
471
00:22:42.609 --> 00:22:42.809
Yes.
472
00:22:42.890 --> 00:22:44.750
We don't want to get too deeply into the vocabulary,
473
00:22:44.769 --> 00:22:47.210
but I agree. But Andrew, that is a very good question.
474
00:22:47.309 --> 00:22:50.369
And let's just cut to the basic chase. Andrew is
475
00:22:50.450 --> 00:22:53.930
basically asking, with the way that we're trying to figure
476
00:22:54.009 --> 00:22:56.680
out how the universe works on the quantum level, is
477
00:22:56.740 --> 00:23:01.220
it true that time– Could be considered as running backwards
478
00:23:01.380 --> 00:23:04.099
and forwards at the same time. And therefore, the entire
479
00:23:04.259 --> 00:23:07.819
universe is filled, not just in space, but also in time.
480
00:23:07.880 --> 00:23:10.339
In other words, the past, the present, the future, all
481
00:23:10.440 --> 00:23:13.839
already exist. And all we're doing is either moving forward
482
00:23:13.880 --> 00:23:16.359
into it or standing still. We're not moving backwards.
483
00:23:16.720 --> 00:23:16.880
Right.
484
00:23:16.920 --> 00:23:19.349
That's basically what he's asking. And then the corollary.
485
00:23:19.380 --> 00:23:21.130
Which means all trajectories are predetermined.
486
00:23:21.150 --> 00:23:25.390
That's right. So if that's true. then should we do
487
00:23:25.470 --> 00:23:28.809
physics backwards as well as forwards? Can something happening in
488
00:23:28.849 --> 00:23:32.309
the past cause what's happening or predict what's happening in
489
00:23:32.329 --> 00:23:33.829
the future and vice versa?
490
00:23:34.369 --> 00:23:35.910
Hence the retrocausality.
491
00:23:35.950 --> 00:23:39.349
Retrocausality, right. Fancy word, but just time running backwards.
492
00:23:39.369 --> 00:23:40.500
Great word, though, if you think about it.
493
00:23:40.569 --> 00:23:40.890
That's right.
494
00:23:40.930 --> 00:23:41.930
Pretty clear what it means.
495
00:23:42.750 --> 00:23:45.920
So here's the bottom line, in my opinion, on that one,
496
00:23:45.940 --> 00:23:48.720
which is, again, a great question. Thank you, Andrew. The
497
00:23:48.799 --> 00:23:55.049
idea is, does time already fill all of the dimension,
498
00:23:55.690 --> 00:23:58.289
the fourth dimension, or does it not, right?
499
00:23:58.849 --> 00:24:00.130
What do you mean by fill it? What do you
500
00:24:00.150 --> 00:24:00.650
mean by fill it?
501
00:24:00.670 --> 00:24:04.660
Well, okay. Think of the universe as a big, tall
502
00:24:04.700 --> 00:24:08.180
glass of water, okay? And time zero is the bottom
503
00:24:08.200 --> 00:24:12.140
of the glass. As you're filling the glass, you're basically
504
00:24:12.859 --> 00:24:16.769
adding more and more content in the vertical dimension of
505
00:24:16.809 --> 00:24:17.230
the glass.
506
00:24:17.910 --> 00:24:19.250
Until it's full. Until it's full.
507
00:24:19.269 --> 00:24:24.920
But if we... are right at the surface of where
508
00:24:24.940 --> 00:24:29.190
the water is now, is the glass already full?
509
00:24:30.390 --> 00:24:34.369
Okay, that's what you mean. Has time already timed out?
510
00:24:34.690 --> 00:24:38.269
That's right. It's already ticked, and we're just experiencing it.
511
00:24:38.579 --> 00:24:41.700
This has been explored in several science fiction stories. For example,
512
00:24:42.059 --> 00:24:45.900
Ted Chiang's excellent story called Story of Your Life, which
513
00:24:46.059 --> 00:24:51.009
became adapted into the movie Arrival. that starred Amy Adams
514
00:24:51.210 --> 00:24:51.910
and Jeremy Renner.
515
00:24:52.470 --> 00:24:55.220
It was also in, in Kurt Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse-Five.
516
00:24:55.240 --> 00:24:55.559
That's right.
517
00:24:55.759 --> 00:24:56.059
That's right.
518
00:24:56.240 --> 00:25:01.140
Yeah. Where the, the, the main character who's loosely autobiographical
519
00:25:01.619 --> 00:25:04.960
from his time as a prisoner of war, cleaning up
520
00:25:05.299 --> 00:25:09.079
Dresden after the bombings, he's abducted by an alien.
521
00:25:09.299 --> 00:25:09.480
Right.
522
00:25:09.789 --> 00:25:14.109
And put in an alien zoo. So that doesn't sound
523
00:25:14.150 --> 00:25:18.170
very free, except they grant him access to his entire timeline.
524
00:25:18.329 --> 00:25:21.539
Right. Oh, so, so, so don't, don't, don't spoil it
525
00:25:21.559 --> 00:25:23.359
for those people who haven't read it yet. It's worth
526
00:25:23.400 --> 00:25:24.720
reading once, but.
527
00:25:24.420 --> 00:25:27.299
Yes, there's a movie of it too.
528
00:25:27.349 --> 00:25:28.420
There's also a movie. That's right.
529
00:25:28.849 --> 00:25:31.589
For me, the fun part is it changes how you
530
00:25:31.690 --> 00:25:35.710
even speak of things. So you don't say, well, when
531
00:25:35.750 --> 00:25:40.230
were you born? Well, I was always being born. I'm
532
00:25:40.329 --> 00:25:43.579
always dying. I'm always, cause that timeline is just always
533
00:25:43.819 --> 00:25:44.339
filled out.
534
00:25:44.839 --> 00:25:45.420
Right.
535
00:25:45.640 --> 00:25:49.130
That's right. So, so this is, um, sometimes referred to
536
00:25:49.190 --> 00:25:53.779
as what's called block time or a block universe, where
537
00:25:54.359 --> 00:25:56.420
there are four dimensions of space and time, and it's
538
00:25:56.460 --> 00:25:58.859
already filled. It's a block that's already filled, and we
539
00:25:58.900 --> 00:26:01.480
just happen to be moving through it. And because of
540
00:26:01.740 --> 00:26:05.259
our physical limitations, we can only move it in one direction. Okay.
541
00:26:05.859 --> 00:26:11.009
But that is only one possible solution to the mathematical equations, right?
542
00:26:11.460 --> 00:26:15.329
Andrew invoked quite a bit of advanced mathematics. but that
543
00:26:15.460 --> 00:26:18.589
math has yet to be borne out in experiment. And
544
00:26:18.650 --> 00:26:22.609
so his ask has an experiment when borne out. The
545
00:26:22.670 --> 00:26:26.529
answer is no experiment has yet shown that the universe
546
00:26:26.630 --> 00:26:29.960
is in fact a full block. So we will see.
547
00:26:30.299 --> 00:26:32.500
I'm trying to figure out what experiment would you, how
548
00:26:32.599 --> 00:26:37.160
would you, how would you, what experiment could you concoct
549
00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:39.039
that would actually show that?
550
00:26:39.740 --> 00:26:43.150
One thing that people think might help is if we
551
00:26:43.170 --> 00:26:48.119
could somehow send information faster than light through perhaps quantum
552
00:26:48.140 --> 00:26:53.200
entanglement or some kind of quantum teleportation, it is at
553
00:26:53.240 --> 00:26:57.559
the moment absolutely technically impossible. But some people have thought,
554
00:26:58.480 --> 00:27:02.569
imagine if we could create an experiment between here and
555
00:27:02.589 --> 00:27:06.789
the moon where somehow we could send a signal and
556
00:27:06.910 --> 00:27:09.190
see if we could get a different signal before the
557
00:27:09.269 --> 00:27:12.380
light from the earth would get to the moon. That's
558
00:27:12.400 --> 00:27:17.230
a really cool idea. Some people think that we could
559
00:27:17.289 --> 00:27:20.150
get that experiment off the ground in half a century
560
00:27:20.190 --> 00:27:22.930
or so. I am less optimistic, but it's a possibility.
561
00:27:23.589 --> 00:27:24.109
Interesting.
562
00:27:24.130 --> 00:27:26.009
It would have to be through quantum entanglement.
563
00:27:27.009 --> 00:27:29.869
Well, that's one way to do it. You have to
564
00:27:30.289 --> 00:27:34.690
get rid of what we call local hidden variables in
565
00:27:34.759 --> 00:27:37.299
order to be able to do that. But that's, again,
566
00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:39.619
a deep conversation for another time. That's a lot of
567
00:27:40.970 --> 00:27:42.950
Bell's theorem stuff to unpack in quantum.
568
00:27:43.750 --> 00:27:44.319
All right.
569
00:27:44.970 --> 00:27:48.420
Okay, this is Janata. Jayanta.
570
00:27:48.500 --> 00:27:48.700
No.
571
00:27:48.880 --> 00:27:55.359
Jayanta. Jayanta. Jayanta Banik. I like Janata better. Okay.
572
00:27:55.420 --> 00:27:59.029
It's not your choice, Chuck.
573
00:27:59.230 --> 00:28:00.230
I know, it's not up to you.
574
00:28:02.390 --> 00:28:07.529
Okay. This is Jayanta Banik, who says, Dear Dr. Tyson
575
00:28:07.569 --> 00:28:11.670
and Lord Nice, warm greetings. My name is Jay Antobonic
576
00:28:11.690 --> 00:28:14.210
from California. I'd love to get your take on quantum
577
00:28:14.230 --> 00:28:20.049
entanglement exhibiting instantaneous correlations, even though no information can travel
578
00:28:20.089 --> 00:28:24.480
faster than light. Could this apparent non-locality be explained by
579
00:28:24.559 --> 00:28:29.359
particles being adjacent in a higher spatial dimension, appearing distant
580
00:28:29.539 --> 00:28:34.920
only in 3D? Or is the institution fundamentally incompatible with
581
00:28:35.000 --> 00:28:38.220
quantum field theory? My intuition is further supported by the
582
00:28:38.259 --> 00:28:42.180
recently measured speed of quantum entanglement formation of 232 attoseconds.
583
00:28:42.480 --> 00:28:46.220
There's a new one on me.
584
00:28:46.349 --> 00:28:47.559
Attosecond, love it.
585
00:28:47.589 --> 00:28:48.569
Attosecond.
586
00:28:49.549 --> 00:28:53.549
So, like, the whole deal is, happens in another dimension,
587
00:28:53.930 --> 00:28:57.250
which doesn't make a difference what time it takes if
588
00:28:57.289 --> 00:29:01.650
you're outside the dimension. And then back here in 3D, instantaneous,
589
00:29:01.910 --> 00:29:04.539
faster than light. So, what do you think, Chuck?
590
00:29:05.019 --> 00:29:09.079
First of all, Did you pick that question just because
591
00:29:09.119 --> 00:29:13.119
we started talking about quantum? Or was that question predetermined?
592
00:29:13.460 --> 00:29:16.220
In which case, it might have been leading back to
593
00:29:16.240 --> 00:29:19.930
the mention we had about quantum entanglement in a sort
594
00:29:19.970 --> 00:29:22.829
of block time kind of way. What a coincidence. That's
595
00:29:22.869 --> 00:29:23.230
really awesome.
596
00:29:23.250 --> 00:29:24.210
I see what you did there.
597
00:29:24.230 --> 00:29:24.990
Yeah, isn't that something?
598
00:29:25.009 --> 00:29:25.950
I see what you did there.
599
00:29:26.049 --> 00:29:26.289
I know.
600
00:29:26.309 --> 00:29:28.549
Well, it's not what I did. It's what the universe
601
00:29:28.569 --> 00:29:30.250
has done because of its strange structure.
602
00:29:30.490 --> 00:29:30.769
I don't know.
603
00:29:31.029 --> 00:29:33.230
So to answer this very good question, what I would
604
00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:37.460
say is that if you invoke... an additional dimension to
605
00:29:37.559 --> 00:29:42.180
move through literally anything. right, then you don't have to
606
00:29:42.279 --> 00:29:46.740
follow the rules of physics as they currently exist. You
607
00:29:46.779 --> 00:29:48.980
just add, as long as you can make the math work,
608
00:29:49.160 --> 00:29:52.069
you just add a loop or a different travel time
609
00:29:52.220 --> 00:29:53.150
of that information.
610
00:29:53.609 --> 00:29:53.849
Okay.
611
00:29:54.210 --> 00:29:57.450
So your suggestion that quantum entanglement just merely means that
612
00:29:57.490 --> 00:30:01.180
there's actually an entanglement that's physical, but it goes through
613
00:30:01.220 --> 00:30:03.529
a different dimension to get from one part of the
614
00:30:03.569 --> 00:30:06.069
entangled pair to the other part of the entangled pair,
615
00:30:06.549 --> 00:30:11.950
is a mathematical strategy that can explain a bunch of things.
616
00:30:12.549 --> 00:30:15.839
The only thing is, if you're doing that, then you
617
00:30:15.880 --> 00:30:19.400
have to explain what that other dimension is doing, right?
618
00:30:19.720 --> 00:30:22.359
Where is it affecting the rest of the universe in
619
00:30:22.440 --> 00:30:26.299
other ways? Is it true for every entangled particle that
620
00:30:26.319 --> 00:30:28.519
they go through the same dimension? Does it go through
621
00:30:28.539 --> 00:30:35.359
a different dimension? Also, philosophically, does that mean that there
622
00:30:35.539 --> 00:30:39.500
is actually a hidden local thing going on, right? The
623
00:30:39.559 --> 00:30:43.339
idea of quantum entanglement fundamentally is that once you have
624
00:30:43.380 --> 00:30:47.099
these two particles or two parts of a pair of
625
00:30:47.140 --> 00:30:51.500
an entangled pair separated, or once they've created, it doesn't
626
00:30:51.619 --> 00:30:54.680
matter if there's a physical space in between them. There's
627
00:30:54.869 --> 00:30:58.430
nothing connecting them at that moment, other than the fact
628
00:30:58.470 --> 00:31:01.299
that they were entangled. at one point in the past.
629
00:31:01.960 --> 00:31:06.400
And so there is no real way that we can
630
00:31:06.500 --> 00:31:11.500
show that that extra dimension is necessary or even effective.
631
00:31:11.980 --> 00:31:17.109
The time, the 223 attoseconds in which quantum entanglement occurs
632
00:31:17.130 --> 00:31:21.369
that you quoted is a very cool experimental result. It
633
00:31:21.430 --> 00:31:23.990
needs to be further confirmed and things like that. But
634
00:31:24.029 --> 00:31:27.940
the idea is that it doesn't give us a lot
635
00:31:28.000 --> 00:31:31.059
of insight as to whether or not another dimension is necessary.
636
00:31:31.430 --> 00:31:34.180
At the moment, we probably don't want to go in
637
00:31:34.220 --> 00:31:37.680
that direction yet. We don't have enough information to know
638
00:31:37.700 --> 00:31:41.079
whether or not that's a fruitful path, so to speak,
639
00:31:41.559 --> 00:31:42.579
for entanglement.
640
00:31:43.519 --> 00:31:44.619
So it's a known unknown.
641
00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:46.329
It's an unknown unknown.
642
00:31:46.660 --> 00:31:52.309
But it would allow us to accept this faster than
643
00:31:52.369 --> 00:31:55.910
light communication because it's happening in another dimension. We're not
644
00:31:55.990 --> 00:31:57.170
actually moving faster than light.
645
00:31:57.670 --> 00:32:00.809
Right. Right. That's the thing. It's still not moving faster
646
00:32:00.829 --> 00:32:04.329
than light. It's just, well, isn't that what subspace would be?
647
00:32:04.869 --> 00:32:09.960
Well, subspace is only vaguely determined, decided or defined in
648
00:32:09.980 --> 00:32:12.170
Star Trek. Right. Yeah. But yes, if you're in a,
649
00:32:12.299 --> 00:32:14.859
it could be a warp drive or something like that. Right.
650
00:32:15.420 --> 00:32:18.740
And you are in subspace as a result of being
651
00:32:18.779 --> 00:32:23.069
in a warp bubble. Right. That could be considered a dimension. Right.
652
00:32:23.660 --> 00:32:26.799
Or it could be considered something that is in the
653
00:32:26.839 --> 00:32:32.500
existing spatial dimensions that just happens to be temporarily not accessible.
654
00:32:33.900 --> 00:32:37.400
And yet you have subspace communications in Star Trek. So
655
00:32:37.559 --> 00:32:40.400
it is accessible. And it's just all kinds of weirdness.
656
00:32:40.579 --> 00:32:42.380
But also you haven't thought about it and try to
657
00:32:42.420 --> 00:32:43.410
come up with a solution to it.
658
00:32:43.740 --> 00:32:43.940
Yes.
659
00:32:44.460 --> 00:32:46.900
Unlike Star Wars that doesn't try to find solutions to anything.
660
00:32:47.160 --> 00:32:51.119
Correct. Well, that's one of the interesting things between Star
661
00:32:51.160 --> 00:32:53.700
Trek and Star Wars, right? I love them both. But
662
00:32:53.900 --> 00:32:57.940
even though Star Trek has tried to be much more scientific, right?
663
00:32:57.980 --> 00:33:00.900
Star Wars just gave up on being scientific. Star Wars
664
00:33:00.940 --> 00:33:04.269
is just a space opera. And so in that sense,
665
00:33:04.309 --> 00:33:06.690
it's actually still kind of fun. Although things like the
666
00:33:06.730 --> 00:33:08.930
Mandalorian and so forth, they still have a little bit
667
00:33:08.970 --> 00:33:12.210
of science thrown in there, right? The ideas in general
668
00:33:12.309 --> 00:33:15.569
of things like the force and whatnot in Star Wars, eh,
669
00:33:15.769 --> 00:33:16.190
not so much.
670
00:33:18.450 --> 00:33:20.539
Nope, that's lame.
671
00:33:21.039 --> 00:33:23.960
Mm-hmm. Ready?
672
00:33:24.529 --> 00:33:29.750
Do you harbor questions about the universe? Some long-held bit
673
00:33:29.769 --> 00:33:35.190
of cosmic curiosity lingering within you? Or questions about anything
674
00:33:36.230 --> 00:33:40.650
at all? You can become a Patreon supporter of StarTalk.
675
00:33:41.490 --> 00:33:44.450
You have access to our exclusive question line on our website.
676
00:33:45.269 --> 00:33:48.410
Those are where we draw our questions for our cosmic learning.
677
00:33:48.730 --> 00:33:52.630
Some of the most extreme objects in the universe. StarTalk
678
00:33:52.710 --> 00:33:57.079
is a work in progress where we, every month, come
679
00:33:57.119 --> 00:33:59.920
up with some new way, some new idea, some new
680
00:34:00.019 --> 00:34:03.460
understanding of how to bring the universe down to Earth.
681
00:34:04.200 --> 00:34:07.559
We could not do that without your support. Thank you.
682
00:34:08.199 --> 00:34:10.050
And as always, keep looking up.
683
00:34:11.800 --> 00:34:13.570
All right. Are we ready for another question?
684
00:34:13.989 --> 00:34:14.329
Yeah.
685
00:34:14.610 --> 00:34:15.090
Bring it on.
686
00:34:15.650 --> 00:34:18.849
All right. This time we are Cindy Brill.
687
00:34:19.449 --> 00:34:23.710
Eyes, Dr. Tyson Liu and Lord Nice, Cindy, from Tua.
688
00:34:23.510 --> 00:34:24.530
Latin, Oregon.
689
00:34:25.150 --> 00:34:28.449
My question, oh, I like this. My question is consciousness.
690
00:34:29.190 --> 00:34:32.550
Is consciousness the result of quantum physics?
691
00:34:35.099 --> 00:34:38.940
What a great question. Because we don't really understand consciousness.
692
00:34:40.019 --> 00:34:42.659
No one understands quantum physics. So you just get one
693
00:34:42.679 --> 00:34:46.079
of those to explain the other and we're all fine.
694
00:34:46.179 --> 00:34:48.659
This is another great question. Thank you, Cindy. And in fact,
695
00:34:49.119 --> 00:34:52.239
this is a question that I was asked like exactly
696
00:34:52.300 --> 00:34:55.510
word for word when I was at the American Astronomical
697
00:34:55.550 --> 00:34:59.309
Society meeting back in January. Yeah, I know, like I
698
00:34:59.329 --> 00:35:01.670
said earlier, I'm still feeling really good about that meeting.
699
00:35:01.710 --> 00:35:03.650
I really was. I mean, you know, the world is
700
00:35:03.710 --> 00:35:06.809
on fire. I mean, things, it's also in ice. Things
701
00:35:06.849 --> 00:35:10.139
are just messed up. But when I went there, See
702
00:35:10.159 --> 00:35:10.900
what he did there, Trevor?
703
00:35:10.920 --> 00:35:13.389
The world is on fire, and I.
704
00:35:13.449 --> 00:35:15.550
It's also a nice... Yes, yes, yes, yes.
705
00:35:16.199 --> 00:35:20.489
That was Robert Frost, everybody. I didn't invent that. But
706
00:35:21.030 --> 00:35:24.050
when I was there, and I was just with all
707
00:35:24.150 --> 00:35:28.889
the wonderful young people at the American Astronomical Society meeting,
708
00:35:29.389 --> 00:35:33.230
presenting their research, asking questions, talking, being together, it just
709
00:35:33.269 --> 00:35:36.730
felt so good. It felt like the future is what matters,
710
00:35:36.849 --> 00:35:41.469
you know? We're not... Things... can suck, but that's only now.
711
00:35:42.030 --> 00:35:44.409
And the world is in good hands. I felt so
712
00:35:44.429 --> 00:35:44.949
good about that.
713
00:35:45.070 --> 00:35:48.170
Not if I can help it.
714
00:35:48.849 --> 00:35:54.030
But anyway, yes, this was asked a student of mine. Now, Neil, you,
715
00:35:54.110 --> 00:35:57.340
of course, you were even a trustee, a counselor of
716
00:35:57.360 --> 00:36:00.500
the American Astronomical Society. So you're deeply into the society.
717
00:36:00.539 --> 00:36:02.920
As were you. I mean, you were on the board
718
00:36:02.980 --> 00:36:03.719
as well for a while.
719
00:36:03.760 --> 00:36:05.079
That is correct.
720
00:36:05.219 --> 00:36:05.480
Yes.
721
00:36:05.639 --> 00:36:10.000
So people know the American Astronomical Society is the organizing
722
00:36:10.139 --> 00:36:14.150
group of professional astrophysicists in the country. That's right.
723
00:36:14.389 --> 00:36:16.869
And in fact, all of North America, there are more
724
00:36:16.909 --> 00:36:21.329
members of it than the International Astronomical Union, which was
725
00:36:21.369 --> 00:36:25.880
the organization that, amongst other things, helped you demote Pluto, Neil.
726
00:36:26.139 --> 00:36:29.599
Don't blame that on me. Pluto had it coming. Pluto
727
00:36:29.639 --> 00:36:32.920
so had it coming. But the official vote was the IAU. IAU, right.
728
00:36:32.940 --> 00:36:35.019
So the AAS is a great organization.
729
00:36:35.300 --> 00:36:40.239
And how many is it up to? 8,000 members. 8,000 members.
730
00:36:40.320 --> 00:36:41.880
And there are 8 billion people in the world.
731
00:36:42.159 --> 00:36:42.500
That's right.
732
00:36:42.519 --> 00:36:43.400
So that makes us.
733
00:36:43.780 --> 00:36:44.300
One in a million.
734
00:36:44.599 --> 00:36:46.440
If you do the math, one in a million.
735
00:36:46.639 --> 00:36:50.440
That's right. So it's very cool. And so many people there,
736
00:36:50.460 --> 00:36:53.050
there were about 3,000 people there overall. And so many
737
00:36:53.110 --> 00:36:56.809
of them were students, younger people. And one of those
738
00:36:56.869 --> 00:36:58.769
folks had come up to me and said, hey, you know,
739
00:36:59.730 --> 00:37:03.449
I remember hearing you guys talking about free will. And
740
00:37:03.530 --> 00:37:07.849
that made me wonder, is consciousness quantum science? Is it
741
00:37:07.969 --> 00:37:10.880
quantum consciousness? And is that why there's free will? Because
742
00:37:10.889 --> 00:37:15.079
there's uncertainty in the quantum realm that we can't pin down.
743
00:37:15.300 --> 00:37:18.099
And so we can't determine what we're going to do
744
00:37:18.139 --> 00:37:18.920
at any given moment.
745
00:37:19.000 --> 00:37:24.420
So we interpret that uncertainty as free will. Possibly, right? Yeah.
746
00:37:24.460 --> 00:37:26.780
When we talked way back in the day, right? It
747
00:37:27.019 --> 00:37:29.159
wasn't that long ago, but it feels like a long
748
00:37:29.219 --> 00:37:33.070
time ago about free will. We were actually asking ourselves, right?
749
00:37:33.630 --> 00:37:34.469
At what point.
750
00:37:35.050 --> 00:37:38.760
do we say we don't know what's coming next, right?
751
00:37:39.039 --> 00:37:42.260
And the more and more science we've done about human
752
00:37:42.300 --> 00:37:45.199
behavior and physics and so forth, the more we think
753
00:37:45.260 --> 00:37:48.940
we know how determined the system is, and we just
754
00:37:49.079 --> 00:37:51.940
have reached a boundary where we don't know. It could
755
00:37:52.019 --> 00:37:54.880
be all the way down at the quantum level. Now,
756
00:37:55.179 --> 00:37:58.440
there have been ideas about consciousness for a long time
757
00:37:58.639 --> 00:38:03.369
tying to physics. In fact, Nobel laureate Roger Penrose had
758
00:38:03.429 --> 00:38:05.650
come up with a hypothesis with some of his colleagues
759
00:38:05.710 --> 00:38:09.099
decades ago, suggesting that consciousness is sort of like the
760
00:38:09.659 --> 00:38:13.000
quantum spaces in between our synapses.
761
00:38:13.239 --> 00:38:14.900
And that is not why he got his Nobel Prize.
762
00:38:14.960 --> 00:38:15.659
That is not why.
763
00:38:15.679 --> 00:38:16.219
Be clear.
764
00:38:17.420 --> 00:38:18.840
No, that's a different thing.
765
00:38:19.119 --> 00:38:20.090
He got it for black holes.
766
00:38:20.409 --> 00:38:24.110
That's right. But nevertheless, he, very creative guy. He did
767
00:38:24.130 --> 00:38:26.829
all kinds of stuff about tessellations, mathematics, and things like
768
00:38:26.849 --> 00:38:29.530
that as well. And so he gave this particular hypothesis
769
00:38:29.570 --> 00:38:34.019
about how we store information, right? The bottom line is,
770
00:38:34.320 --> 00:38:36.340
in my opinion, and I use that term a lot
771
00:38:36.420 --> 00:38:39.119
because I like putting things down to the bottom, we
772
00:38:39.179 --> 00:38:46.769
haven't yet defined consciousness. Philosophers will, and I know you
773
00:38:46.809 --> 00:38:49.550
love philosophers, Neil. I mean, you embrace them and you
774
00:38:49.590 --> 00:38:55.150
think that they're awesome. So I'll quote philosophers as much
775
00:38:55.210 --> 00:38:58.610
as I can here, that everything is conscious. It's just
776
00:38:58.630 --> 00:39:02.670
the different levels of consciousness that matter, right? Gary, let
777
00:39:02.690 --> 00:39:05.889
me ask you, when you played soccer, did you sometimes
778
00:39:05.949 --> 00:39:07.250
feel like the ball had a mind.
779
00:39:07.110 --> 00:39:07.469
Of its own?
780
00:39:08.809 --> 00:39:13.340
Yeah, there were days, but basically, I worked out that
781
00:39:13.360 --> 00:39:15.260
it was mainly user error.
782
00:39:17.179 --> 00:39:18.300
On my behalf.
783
00:39:18.719 --> 00:39:21.539
Nice, nice. Right.
784
00:39:22.179 --> 00:39:26.409
So philosophers of consciousness sometimes do argue that the soccer
785
00:39:26.449 --> 00:39:29.389
ball does have its own consciousness, but it's at such
786
00:39:29.429 --> 00:39:32.429
a low level, right? Such a level that we cannot
787
00:39:32.489 --> 00:39:36.659
understand that the, how hard it's kicked, whether the valve
788
00:39:36.699 --> 00:39:39.239
was affected or not, whether the wind is blowing, whether
789
00:39:39.260 --> 00:39:43.420
there's a spin and things like that, that fully explains
790
00:39:43.880 --> 00:39:47.019
how it moves and that its own free will or
791
00:39:47.039 --> 00:39:49.159
its own consciousness has no effect.
792
00:39:49.940 --> 00:39:52.420
Well, then what good is it? The soccer ball?
793
00:39:52.659 --> 00:39:53.039
Yeah.
794
00:39:53.260 --> 00:39:56.389
What good is it to have consciousness if it's of
795
00:39:56.469 --> 00:40:02.769
no effect, zero agency, and zero influence on outcomes? The
796
00:40:02.789 --> 00:40:07.369
whole idea of consciousness is that you somehow can influence
797
00:40:07.630 --> 00:40:11.750
an outcome. Other than that, what good is it really?
798
00:40:12.210 --> 00:40:13.789
Well- I don't know.
799
00:40:14.250 --> 00:40:18.469
That's a really great point. If you have this kind
800
00:40:18.489 --> 00:40:22.289
of consciousness, if it even exists, right? We humans, I
801
00:40:22.289 --> 00:40:26.860
don't know, what is something that we have that serves
802
00:40:26.940 --> 00:40:29.940
no purpose, and yet we have it, and therefore it
803
00:40:30.320 --> 00:40:31.199
is part of who we are?
804
00:40:31.639 --> 00:40:32.320
An appendix.
805
00:40:32.599 --> 00:40:36.070
Ah, there you go. There you go. The fact that
806
00:40:36.110 --> 00:40:39.670
you have an appendix, does that make you different from
807
00:40:39.849 --> 00:40:42.590
when you have your appendix removed because it got infected?
808
00:40:44.010 --> 00:40:46.969
Are you the same as you were before? And if
809
00:40:47.030 --> 00:40:51.849
you aren't, what is it about removing that particular part
810
00:40:51.869 --> 00:40:56.809
of you? Is it that part's consciousness, that part's quantum effects,
811
00:40:56.829 --> 00:40:59.550
that part's physical effects that make you a different person?
812
00:41:00.349 --> 00:41:03.489
Now, do I have insurance or not? Because I live
813
00:41:03.510 --> 00:41:04.050
in America.
814
00:41:04.150 --> 00:41:09.849
Well, that's a good point. You can have insurance.
815
00:41:12.539 --> 00:41:17.019
There is obsolescence that is a part of us. And
816
00:41:17.039 --> 00:41:19.260
I'm sure it served a purpose at some point, and
817
00:41:19.300 --> 00:41:19.840
now it doesn't.
818
00:41:20.119 --> 00:41:20.659
Right.
819
00:41:21.039 --> 00:41:24.400
Consider it on an even deeper level, right? Surgery isn't necessary.
820
00:41:25.079 --> 00:41:30.440
Our skin cells completely cycle through every month or so, right?
821
00:41:30.460 --> 00:41:32.840
Everything that used to be the dermis, epidermis, and then
822
00:41:32.920 --> 00:41:33.559
it flakes off.
823
00:41:33.820 --> 00:41:34.760
Yeah, they slough off.
824
00:41:35.360 --> 00:41:38.070
It is completely true that none of us here at
825
00:41:38.110 --> 00:41:42.130
this meeting have the same skin cells that we did.
826
00:41:42.630 --> 00:41:43.699
When we were growing up.
827
00:41:43.710 --> 00:41:46.409
Maybe not even, yeah, might be not even say muscle cells.
828
00:41:47.010 --> 00:41:48.789
We have a lot of the same bone cells, a
829
00:41:48.829 --> 00:41:50.489
lot of the same brain cells, but a lot of
830
00:41:50.530 --> 00:41:55.090
them are gone now, right? But our consciousness continues. And
831
00:41:55.110 --> 00:41:58.309
in fact, our consciousness continues to grow because we continue
832
00:41:58.329 --> 00:42:01.369
to experience things, you and I. I think my consciousness
833
00:42:01.530 --> 00:42:03.889
is enriched and improved because I'm hanging out with you
834
00:42:03.929 --> 00:42:05.250
guys today, right?
835
00:42:05.610 --> 00:42:07.469
Give it time, give it time.
836
00:42:08.219 --> 00:42:13.239
How does our consciousness continue even though our physical characteristics
837
00:42:13.699 --> 00:42:14.820
have discontinued.
838
00:42:15.199 --> 00:42:17.880
You know, the best evidence that nobody understands consciousness is
839
00:42:17.920 --> 00:42:19.260
how many books are written on the subject.
840
00:42:19.619 --> 00:42:21.960
That's true for quantum physics.
841
00:42:21.980 --> 00:42:24.559
The 10th book that says consciousness explains means no one
842
00:42:24.579 --> 00:42:25.429
really understands it.
843
00:42:26.260 --> 00:42:27.510
But it's worth thinking about, isn't it?
844
00:42:28.170 --> 00:42:32.769
Definitely. Just for context, that's on the consciousness shelf of
845
00:42:32.809 --> 00:42:35.969
the library and the bookstore. There's no end of consciousness books.
846
00:42:36.230 --> 00:42:38.530
But you go to the gravity section, there's like two books.
847
00:42:39.289 --> 00:42:40.469
Yeah, but one of them is big.
848
00:42:49.000 --> 00:42:51.289
But I'm just saying we're not continuing to rewrite a
849
00:42:51.309 --> 00:42:55.570
book on gravity because gravity is understood. So don't confuse
850
00:42:55.650 --> 00:42:58.409
the existence of a book that says something is explained
851
00:42:59.050 --> 00:43:01.719
as a statement of the state of the science behind it.
852
00:43:02.280 --> 00:43:05.000
I think that's a very good point. And so this
853
00:43:05.079 --> 00:43:09.639
question that Cindy has about quantum consciousness is that point.
854
00:43:11.079 --> 00:43:16.099
The quantum properties that are inherent in our brains or
855
00:43:16.320 --> 00:43:21.980
in our overall physical systems allow us to hold together something,
856
00:43:22.219 --> 00:43:27.809
what we're calling consciousness, that persists despite our physical changes
857
00:43:27.889 --> 00:43:28.829
being so radical.
858
00:43:29.349 --> 00:43:31.849
I hope so. That's all I can say is because
859
00:43:32.110 --> 00:43:37.349
that is the greatest possibility that our consciousness will extend
860
00:43:37.429 --> 00:43:42.090
beyond time. our so-called life, you know, our physical life.
861
00:43:42.429 --> 00:43:45.030
That is the greatest case to make that we could
862
00:43:45.150 --> 00:43:47.650
in some way go on, especially when you think about
863
00:43:47.690 --> 00:43:51.010
the fact that the question before that when we talk
864
00:43:51.070 --> 00:43:55.590
about entanglement and different dimensions that maybe we could actually
865
00:43:55.679 --> 00:44:00.280
exist on a higher plane of being in another dimension
866
00:44:00.760 --> 00:44:03.900
because of quantum consciousness. And the only way we can
867
00:44:03.940 --> 00:44:06.320
find out people is go ahead and die.
868
00:44:06.719 --> 00:44:13.659
No. Thanks. Great advice there.
869
00:44:15.000 --> 00:44:16.840
I love the fact you end it with a laugh.
870
00:44:19.750 --> 00:44:23.210
Actually, that's the point, right? Right now, research in things
871
00:44:23.269 --> 00:44:27.809
like consciousness and quantum awareness and things like that are
872
00:44:27.929 --> 00:44:30.449
dependent on the fact that we don't want people to
873
00:44:30.489 --> 00:44:33.280
die as a result of that. And people have tried
874
00:44:33.320 --> 00:44:36.380
to make these experiments. More than 100 years ago, for example,
875
00:44:37.039 --> 00:44:39.699
there were some experiments about people who were about to
876
00:44:39.739 --> 00:44:42.639
die and they were willing to be subjects of an experiment.
877
00:44:42.659 --> 00:44:45.179
They were carefully weighed. Neil, you know this better than
878
00:44:45.219 --> 00:44:45.480
I do.
879
00:44:45.699 --> 00:44:45.840
Yeah.
880
00:44:45.880 --> 00:44:45.980
Yeah.
881
00:44:46.000 --> 00:44:47.619
I mean, it started out with, you know, after the
882
00:44:47.699 --> 00:44:50.159
x-rays were invented, they said, let's x-ray dying people, see
883
00:44:50.179 --> 00:44:53.869
if there's a soul that comes out. And, you know,
884
00:44:53.909 --> 00:44:56.070
in retrospect, it's like, what were you doing? But at
885
00:44:56.090 --> 00:44:58.489
the time, that's a completely sensible experiment.
886
00:44:58.809 --> 00:44:59.389
That's right.
887
00:44:59.469 --> 00:45:01.650
Religion makes a prediction. And now you have a means
888
00:45:01.710 --> 00:45:04.190
of probing what's inside the body. If the soul is
889
00:45:04.230 --> 00:45:07.219
inside the body, maybe the x-rays will find it. Nothing
890
00:45:07.260 --> 00:45:10.050
wrong with that as a, as an attempt to gather
891
00:45:10.349 --> 00:45:13.349
evidence for those whose faith is challenged.
892
00:45:13.550 --> 00:45:13.889
That's right.
893
00:45:14.230 --> 00:45:14.409
All right.
894
00:45:14.429 --> 00:45:15.429
So let me ask you this then.
895
00:45:15.829 --> 00:45:16.349
Okay.
896
00:45:17.289 --> 00:45:20.969
This is a philosophical question. Do you think that perhaps
897
00:45:21.690 --> 00:45:26.150
we do a disservice by looking for something like that?
898
00:45:26.329 --> 00:45:30.409
And after an afterness, I will call it an afterwards.
899
00:45:30.880 --> 00:45:34.179
I will call it because it robs us. of the
900
00:45:34.480 --> 00:45:39.659
urgency and importance of being here now. So here's the deal.
901
00:45:39.969 --> 00:45:43.550
If I understand the urgency and importance of being here now,
902
00:45:43.929 --> 00:45:47.190
and that is always at top of mind and at
903
00:45:47.230 --> 00:45:52.679
the forefront of my consciousness, then it allows me to
904
00:45:53.099 --> 00:45:58.599
live to the fullest. Whereas if I retreat to this
905
00:45:59.199 --> 00:46:02.809
sense of, there's going to be something after I'm waiting
906
00:46:02.829 --> 00:46:07.710
for the after, then I am robbing myself of the
907
00:46:08.130 --> 00:46:12.510
fullness of life in the here and now. Whoa.
908
00:46:12.670 --> 00:46:18.889
Well, I'll just say one thing about that. And I'd
909
00:46:18.909 --> 00:46:21.300
love to hear everybody else's opinions on this, but here's,
910
00:46:21.380 --> 00:46:25.380
here's my take on that. Chuck, your idea of that
911
00:46:25.599 --> 00:46:28.900
sort of thing, talking about afterlife and things like that. Um,
912
00:46:29.349 --> 00:46:33.280
has been the basis of just about every apocalyptic cult
913
00:46:33.900 --> 00:46:38.039
or evangelical religion, you know, where you are going to
914
00:46:38.219 --> 00:46:41.199
be saved or that you were heading on to better things.
915
00:46:41.480 --> 00:46:43.199
Each one of them requires an end of the world
916
00:46:43.219 --> 00:46:44.380
scenario for you to live.
917
00:46:44.699 --> 00:46:44.880
Yeah.
918
00:46:45.280 --> 00:46:46.159
In your lifetime.
919
00:46:46.659 --> 00:46:46.960
That's right.
920
00:46:47.059 --> 00:46:49.019
The world might end in a thousand years. You're not
921
00:46:49.059 --> 00:46:50.079
getting anybody in that cult.
922
00:46:51.340 --> 00:46:51.940
Something like that.
923
00:46:52.000 --> 00:46:52.219
Right.
924
00:46:52.900 --> 00:46:56.519
So the idea for that one is that if current
925
00:46:56.619 --> 00:46:59.380
life is worth living, If you feel good about your
926
00:46:59.420 --> 00:47:02.139
life right now, then looking for an afterlife is kind
927
00:47:02.159 --> 00:47:06.420
of like a bummer. But if current life sucks, in
928
00:47:06.460 --> 00:47:12.190
your personal opinion, maybe you want to be delivered somewhere else, right?
929
00:47:12.269 --> 00:47:16.809
This has become in so many different religions. I'm not
930
00:47:16.869 --> 00:47:20.210
actually the religion expert in my family. My eldest daughter
931
00:47:20.630 --> 00:47:25.300
actually studied religion in school. But the bottom line, oh, again,
932
00:47:25.320 --> 00:47:28.119
the bottom line thing there for there is that This
933
00:47:28.179 --> 00:47:32.130
idea of the afterlife has been used by organized religions.
934
00:47:32.289 --> 00:47:33.309
Co-opted, I would say.
935
00:47:33.610 --> 00:47:37.989
Yeah, to do anything, right? The caste system that is
936
00:47:38.429 --> 00:47:42.989
part of some religions. Well, you may be really bad
937
00:47:43.030 --> 00:47:45.820
right now, but that's okay. You do the thing that
938
00:47:45.860 --> 00:47:48.039
we ask you to do, and maybe you'll be born
939
00:47:48.099 --> 00:47:54.239
again as a higher caste individual. So that's a way
940
00:47:54.260 --> 00:47:57.320
to sort of make people not worry about their current lives.
941
00:47:58.659 --> 00:48:01.940
But it can bring hope if your life currently sucks,
942
00:48:02.000 --> 00:48:04.139
but you're like, you know, if I keep working, I'll
943
00:48:04.179 --> 00:48:07.179
do better and life will become better. But you're not
944
00:48:07.260 --> 00:48:10.000
looking at the present as much as you're looking at
945
00:48:10.019 --> 00:48:11.320
the long game.
946
00:48:12.030 --> 00:48:16.389
And reincarnation in that flavor also gets you the other way.
947
00:48:16.789 --> 00:48:17.110
That's right.
948
00:48:17.130 --> 00:48:19.889
If you misbehave, you'll come back as something maybe not
949
00:48:19.929 --> 00:48:20.429
even human.
950
00:48:20.789 --> 00:48:20.969
Yeah.
951
00:48:21.369 --> 00:48:21.489
Right.
952
00:48:21.510 --> 00:48:21.650
Right.
953
00:48:22.199 --> 00:48:24.719
Oh, you come back as a soccer ball getting kicked
954
00:48:24.820 --> 00:48:27.320
around by Gary and his friends.
955
00:48:27.820 --> 00:48:29.860
And that little bit of consciousness that's in the ball.
956
00:48:30.239 --> 00:48:32.539
I'm really effed up.
957
00:48:34.539 --> 00:48:35.340
It's a tough call, right?
958
00:48:35.579 --> 00:48:37.070
Yeah.
959
00:48:37.179 --> 00:48:39.489
It's a great question in the end. We know that
960
00:48:39.530 --> 00:48:43.170
we human consciousness, we're no longer able to communicate our
961
00:48:43.210 --> 00:48:45.409
consciousness once we have expired.
962
00:48:45.829 --> 00:48:48.469
Except we don't want to upload it into software.
963
00:48:48.829 --> 00:48:50.590
We can't tell people if we're still alive or not,
964
00:48:50.650 --> 00:48:54.269
but There's been some really neat fiction these days, right,
965
00:48:54.750 --> 00:48:58.179
where people have uploaded themselves into some sort of an
966
00:48:58.300 --> 00:48:59.260
AI system.
967
00:48:59.719 --> 00:49:02.400
Oh, I think there's a great show. I think it's
968
00:49:02.440 --> 00:49:04.880
called Altered Carbon, if anybody wants to check it out,
969
00:49:06.000 --> 00:49:09.909
where the idea of your consciousness can be downloaded into
970
00:49:09.929 --> 00:49:13.769
a little disk. And then the corporeal body is called
971
00:49:13.849 --> 00:49:17.429
the skin. It's just skins. And you can put it
972
00:49:17.590 --> 00:49:19.510
in whatever skins you would like to put it in.
973
00:49:20.400 --> 00:49:24.099
And yeah. And so you could go from being, you know,
974
00:49:24.119 --> 00:49:28.710
a really attractive woman to a fat stubby guy to,
975
00:49:29.050 --> 00:49:32.130
it doesn't make a difference because it's just your consciousness
976
00:49:32.150 --> 00:49:36.639
that gets loaded into another body. including bodies that can
977
00:49:36.699 --> 00:49:41.090
be especially made just to hold your consciousness.
978
00:49:41.190 --> 00:49:42.190
Wow, wow.
979
00:49:42.230 --> 00:49:46.219
Yeah, altered carbon. The altered carbon. Now, the problem with that,
980
00:49:46.380 --> 00:49:49.440
and just to wrap up quantum consciousness on this idea,
981
00:49:49.940 --> 00:49:53.639
is that if we are thinking that consciousness is quantum
982
00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:58.130
in nature, we can't digitize it. Because digitizing would mean
983
00:49:58.170 --> 00:50:01.590
that you could get every single bit of information correct
984
00:50:01.769 --> 00:50:03.179
and properly reproduced.
985
00:50:03.260 --> 00:50:03.530
Interesting.
986
00:50:03.550 --> 00:50:07.639
But if you're in a quantum system, right? You only
987
00:50:07.679 --> 00:50:08.880
have possibilities.
988
00:50:08.940 --> 00:50:09.119
Right.
989
00:50:09.159 --> 00:50:14.280
Your qubits settle only when they are read. And then
990
00:50:14.300 --> 00:50:18.110
they're destroyed. That's right. So you can never actually get
991
00:50:18.150 --> 00:50:22.070
a perfect copy of your brain. You'll only get an
992
00:50:22.250 --> 00:50:25.510
imperfect copy every time you try to retrieve that information.
993
00:50:25.570 --> 00:50:29.210
So In the altered carbon situation, every time you're put
994
00:50:29.250 --> 00:50:32.250
into a new body, you could be fundamentally different in
995
00:50:32.289 --> 00:50:32.949
your consciousness.
996
00:50:33.150 --> 00:50:36.989
Interesting. Damn, you just ruined their whole show.
997
00:50:37.010 --> 00:50:38.380
Yeah, Charles, you just ruined everything.
998
00:50:38.400 --> 00:50:39.119
Don't tell them.
999
00:50:39.139 --> 00:50:39.679
Don't tell them.
1000
00:50:40.059 --> 00:50:44.440
Charles, to that point, if you were to upload, download
1001
00:50:44.460 --> 00:50:47.920
whichever load of your consciousness, all you would be doing
1002
00:50:48.000 --> 00:50:50.969
is taking a snapshot of your consciousness at that moment.
1003
00:50:50.969 --> 00:50:52.369
100%.
1004
00:50:52.369 --> 00:50:55.750
You keep existing your consciousness as we've just discussed. Gross.
1005
00:50:56.389 --> 00:51:00.139
Even though you will lose cells, the consciousness is there
1006
00:51:00.280 --> 00:51:02.440
and continues to grow. So you'll only have a snapshot
1007
00:51:02.539 --> 00:51:04.019
if you're able to capture it.
1008
00:51:04.559 --> 00:51:09.119
What's wrong with the snapshot? Because every neurosynaptic connection with
1009
00:51:09.139 --> 00:51:15.449
the chemistry, the electromagnetic fields, if I get a snapshot
1010
00:51:15.489 --> 00:51:17.829
of that and put that in a jar and then
1011
00:51:18.869 --> 00:51:25.210
re-engage it later, why isn't that an exact... copy of
1012
00:51:25.250 --> 00:51:27.630
where I am, the moments that copy was taken.
1013
00:51:27.869 --> 00:51:29.070
Like Apple time machine.
1014
00:51:29.269 --> 00:51:31.980
It is an exact, like Apple time machine. It is
1015
00:51:32.019 --> 00:51:35.239
an exact copy as well as it can be digitized.
1016
00:51:36.019 --> 00:51:38.579
But then once you start running it, if you're a
1017
00:51:38.619 --> 00:51:43.480
quantum consciousness, then all the decisions start changing again. Right?
1018
00:51:43.639 --> 00:51:47.269
So everything is different the moment you turn it back on.
1019
00:51:47.789 --> 00:51:51.210
Or, or no, no, no. I, okay. I think you
1020
00:51:51.230 --> 00:51:52.489
missed something there. Okay.
1021
00:51:52.949 --> 00:51:53.170
Okay.
1022
00:51:53.980 --> 00:51:56.639
So what I said is not even possible. That's the point.
1023
00:51:56.860 --> 00:51:57.039
Yes.
1024
00:51:57.360 --> 00:52:01.599
You cannot know the state of every particle down to
1025
00:52:01.619 --> 00:52:04.880
the last particle that's running your brain because quantum physics
1026
00:52:04.960 --> 00:52:08.260
prevents that knowledge. So to say I have an exact
1027
00:52:08.340 --> 00:52:11.599
copy of it cannot be a real statement.
1028
00:52:12.059 --> 00:52:13.210
Excellent way to put it.
1029
00:52:13.599 --> 00:52:16.380
Excellent. And that front ends what you just said about
1030
00:52:16.840 --> 00:52:18.219
trying to recover what your thoughts were.
1031
00:52:18.579 --> 00:52:18.780
Right.
1032
00:52:19.440 --> 00:52:20.199
Right. Okay.
1033
00:52:20.260 --> 00:52:22.719
Interesting. Wow. God.
1034
00:52:23.690 --> 00:52:26.750
They put a kibosh on all uploading consciousness.
1035
00:52:27.090 --> 00:52:28.469
Absolutely. Well, yes.
1036
00:52:28.789 --> 00:52:32.380
And if you're talking about like fictional characters, which are digital,
1037
00:52:32.429 --> 00:52:35.780
like the holographic doctor in the Star Trek Enterprise.
1038
00:52:36.059 --> 00:52:36.400
Right.
1039
00:52:37.360 --> 00:52:42.679
What you're doing is that you're assuming that consciousness can
1040
00:52:42.760 --> 00:52:46.679
be digitized, at least to a facsimile to where a
1041
00:52:46.780 --> 00:52:52.579
starting point can be produced that is reproducible. In other words,
1042
00:52:52.699 --> 00:52:54.780
every time you turn on the doctors, please state the
1043
00:52:54.820 --> 00:52:58.500
nature of the medical emergency. If you can get to
1044
00:52:58.579 --> 00:53:02.280
that point and then the future time evolution is also
1045
00:53:02.380 --> 00:53:07.260
digital and not quantum, then maybe you can get some
1046
00:53:07.409 --> 00:53:11.210
semblance of consciousness. But if it's quantum, no chance.
1047
00:53:11.530 --> 00:53:14.690
No chance. Now, how about this? Suppose I'm able to
1048
00:53:14.769 --> 00:53:19.469
run subroutines in a program that is everything about me,
1049
00:53:19.849 --> 00:53:23.880
every single thing. I have the main program, which is Chuck.
1050
00:53:24.260 --> 00:53:28.739
And then I have like, just almost, it can't be infinite,
1051
00:53:28.800 --> 00:53:29.239
but like.
1052
00:53:29.480 --> 00:53:31.619
I got one. You need a whole subroutine that has
1053
00:53:31.639 --> 00:53:34.139
you put on lip balm 20 times a day.
1054
00:53:34.159 --> 00:53:35.480
Oh, absolutely.
1055
00:53:35.500 --> 00:53:36.699
The lip balm subroutine.
1056
00:53:37.860 --> 00:53:38.340
That's good.
1057
00:53:38.360 --> 00:53:39.179
You've reminded him now.
1058
00:53:39.599 --> 00:53:44.219
So the subroutine would be called Chuck Chuck. And then
1059
00:53:44.260 --> 00:53:46.340
the sub-subroutine would be chuck, chuck, chuck.
1060
00:53:46.500 --> 00:53:50.619
Right, exactly. So there's this kind of replication of everything
1061
00:53:50.659 --> 00:53:53.750
that I am all the way down, turtles all the
1062
00:53:53.769 --> 00:53:54.550
way down, okay?
1063
00:53:54.849 --> 00:53:56.369
That's just a map. That's not consciousness.
1064
00:53:57.230 --> 00:54:01.650
That's my point. But everything about that is me. And
1065
00:54:01.670 --> 00:54:04.760
when you run that program, you're talking to me. And
1066
00:54:04.780 --> 00:54:08.190
then let's put an AI, an AI element, we'll call it,
1067
00:54:08.639 --> 00:54:14.670
that allows that same program to To grow and flourish
1068
00:54:15.449 --> 00:54:18.929
mentally the same way I would. So be able to
1069
00:54:19.030 --> 00:54:22.090
take in information, process it the way Chuck would, and
1070
00:54:22.130 --> 00:54:25.110
do every... So it's me on every single level.
1071
00:54:25.309 --> 00:54:26.230
You're describing, Chuck.
1072
00:54:26.670 --> 00:54:27.929
But digitized.
1073
00:54:28.090 --> 00:54:31.929
Okay, Chuck, what you're describing is the last chapter, if
1074
00:54:32.070 --> 00:54:35.989
memory serves, of the book Gödel, Escher, Bach, written by
1075
00:54:36.030 --> 00:54:36.840
Douglas Hofstadter.
1076
00:54:36.969 --> 00:54:43.710
It's called what? God bless you. What's it called?
1077
00:54:44.250 --> 00:54:46.070
Girdle Escher Bach.
1078
00:54:46.389 --> 00:54:47.239
Girdle Escher Bach.
1079
00:54:48.820 --> 00:54:53.800
Girdle is a philosopher mathematician who did some important contributions
1080
00:54:53.840 --> 00:54:57.619
in the early 20th century. But point is, it's a
1081
00:54:57.639 --> 00:55:02.139
philosopher who wrote the book, and it's quite the meandering
1082
00:55:02.420 --> 00:55:09.920
of ideas inspired by these brilliant three people in our history, griddle, Escher,
1083
00:55:09.940 --> 00:55:12.619
and Bach. Point is the last chapter he reserves, if
1084
00:55:12.659 --> 00:55:14.139
that's the book I'm remembering, it might've been one of
1085
00:55:14.179 --> 00:55:16.369
his other books. I think it's in that book where
1086
00:55:16.389 --> 00:55:19.949
he has a conversation with Einstein's brain. So you take
1087
00:55:20.010 --> 00:55:22.429
Einstein's brain, like right when he dies, and then you
1088
00:55:23.190 --> 00:55:27.889
map everything that's there. Okay. And then it has an
1089
00:55:27.989 --> 00:55:31.920
auditory capacity. So you ask it a question and you
1090
00:55:32.099 --> 00:55:39.500
watch the sound waves trigger the neurosynaptic connections, and then
1091
00:55:39.519 --> 00:55:42.940
it goes through, and then it triggers a connection back
1092
00:55:42.960 --> 00:55:44.960
because it knows it's a question, and then Einstein's brain
1093
00:55:45.000 --> 00:55:48.079
speaks back to you. And he made a very convincing
1094
00:55:48.139 --> 00:55:51.119
account of how and why that CUDA should work, at
1095
00:55:51.139 --> 00:55:55.559
least in principle, but no mention of quantum uncertainty was given.
1096
00:55:56.659 --> 00:55:59.630
So the principle is good. I mean, we humans don't
1097
00:55:59.710 --> 00:56:03.230
interact with one another on the quantum level. So it's
1098
00:56:03.369 --> 00:56:05.550
certainly possible that we could get to a point where
1099
00:56:05.969 --> 00:56:09.809
We humans could not tell the difference between Chuck and
1100
00:56:09.869 --> 00:56:14.150
Chuck 2, right? But that doesn't mean that they're the same, right?
1101
00:56:14.210 --> 00:56:14.469
True.
1102
00:56:14.909 --> 00:56:17.639
And this is– you don't even have to go to
1103
00:56:18.219 --> 00:56:23.179
20th century nonfiction to think about this. On Broadway, there
1104
00:56:23.239 --> 00:56:27.039
is actually a pretty acclaimed play recently. It was called
1105
00:56:27.079 --> 00:56:30.300
Marjorie Prime, if you guys are familiar with that, where
1106
00:56:30.400 --> 00:56:36.320
a character is speaking to a deceased spouse via– Artificial intelligence.
1107
00:56:37.320 --> 00:56:40.380
It's really- A very black mirror. Yeah.
1108
00:56:40.480 --> 00:56:42.059
But it wasn't dark or anything. It was just a
1109
00:56:42.099 --> 00:56:46.869
kind of a plot device to have someone try to
1110
00:56:47.110 --> 00:56:50.409
think about what does it mean to be alive? Or
1111
00:56:50.809 --> 00:56:54.070
is it better to have yourself alive in some way,
1112
00:56:54.090 --> 00:56:57.730
even if you actually aren't alive? Is it worth it?
1113
00:56:57.929 --> 00:57:00.300
Or is it better that you just not? And things
1114
00:57:00.320 --> 00:57:00.570
like that.
1115
00:57:01.000 --> 00:57:02.579
It's not worth it to me, but it may be
1116
00:57:02.639 --> 00:57:05.659
worth it to like, you know, maybe my children who
1117
00:57:05.719 --> 00:57:09.320
could benefit from my life experience, even though I'm not there.
1118
00:57:09.440 --> 00:57:12.599
And my spouse who could be comforted by the fact that,
1119
00:57:12.980 --> 00:57:15.420
you know, I know them better than anybody else. And
1120
00:57:15.719 --> 00:57:17.550
so they can talk to me the way they can't
1121
00:57:17.610 --> 00:57:20.889
talk to anyone else. There are benefits to that. They're
1122
00:57:20.929 --> 00:57:22.190
just not benefits to me.
1123
00:57:22.489 --> 00:57:24.289
I would love to have that. I met your kids.
1124
00:57:24.829 --> 00:57:25.989
They ain't coming to you for advice.
1125
00:57:26.070 --> 00:57:27.110
Oh, yeah.
1126
00:57:29.679 --> 00:57:31.000
They were done with you years ago.
1127
00:57:35.599 --> 00:57:37.219
I was going to say that would hurt if it
1128
00:57:37.260 --> 00:57:37.840
weren't true.
1129
00:57:42.420 --> 00:57:44.340
Oh, especially that daughter of yours, Chuck.
1130
00:57:44.519 --> 00:57:44.840
Yeah.
1131
00:57:44.860 --> 00:57:45.800
Well, that's so true.
1132
00:57:45.860 --> 00:57:46.059
Yeah.
1133
00:57:46.380 --> 00:57:47.679
I go to Charlie for advice.
1134
00:57:48.079 --> 00:57:53.210
Let's get to the next question. We, we, we luxuriated
1135
00:57:53.269 --> 00:57:53.619
on that one.
1136
00:57:53.630 --> 00:57:55.949
We did. We took a bath in that one.
1137
00:57:56.130 --> 00:57:56.449
Wow.
1138
00:57:56.550 --> 00:57:57.710
Okay. All right.
1139
00:57:57.889 --> 00:58:00.800
So, Let's have a little run and a jump at
1140
00:58:00.860 --> 00:58:02.989
this particular contributor's name.
1141
00:58:03.010 --> 00:58:04.489
Amagericana.
1142
00:58:04.750 --> 00:58:04.949
Yes.
1143
00:58:05.789 --> 00:58:06.389
Doctor's Loop.
1144
00:58:07.070 --> 00:58:11.900
Amagericana. Sorry if I apologize.
1145
00:58:11.960 --> 00:58:14.800
You sound like Chuck. Gary, I thought you were better
1146
00:58:14.820 --> 00:58:15.139
than that.
1147
00:58:15.800 --> 00:58:17.340
I don't speak Danish very well.
1148
00:58:17.860 --> 00:58:18.079
Okay.
1149
00:58:18.119 --> 00:58:19.219
Danish. Oh, okay. Yes.
1150
00:58:19.239 --> 00:58:19.719
That's good.
1151
00:58:20.340 --> 00:58:23.590
Doctors Lou, Tyson, and oh, Chuck, you'll love this. Just
1152
00:58:23.650 --> 00:58:26.849
smart enough, Lord Nice. Hello from Copenhagen.
1153
00:58:26.869 --> 00:58:27.409
Smart enough.
1154
00:58:27.610 --> 00:58:27.989
Wait, wait, wait.
1155
00:58:28.269 --> 00:58:29.929
Chuck, that's the name of your comedy special.
1156
00:58:29.949 --> 00:58:31.969
That is the comedy special. Which, by the way, you
1157
00:58:32.010 --> 00:58:34.409
can watch on the YouTube. Let me say that.
1158
00:58:34.449 --> 00:58:37.670
You can watch on the StarTalk YouTube.
1159
00:58:37.710 --> 00:58:38.250
Yes, you can.
1160
00:58:38.829 --> 00:58:39.570
All right, here we go.
1161
00:58:39.929 --> 00:58:43.849
We've recently seen people that believe there are penguins in Greenland.
1162
00:58:44.309 --> 00:58:44.550
Yeah.
1163
00:58:44.690 --> 00:58:45.670
What are other.
1164
00:58:46.349 --> 00:58:50.360
Please hold that thought. What... What are other glaring examples
1165
00:58:50.420 --> 00:58:53.699
of scientific ignorance you have witnessed in the realm of
1166
00:58:53.800 --> 00:58:56.840
public opinion which make your collective jaws drop?
1167
00:58:57.179 --> 00:58:57.559
Please.
1168
00:58:57.960 --> 00:58:59.559
And he says, which is, I know.
1169
00:59:00.179 --> 00:59:00.429
Yes.
1170
00:59:00.469 --> 00:59:01.630
Thank you, Ian Danish.
1171
00:59:01.670 --> 00:59:03.489
We'll just go round robin. I got one. Are you ready?
1172
00:59:04.409 --> 00:59:07.969
Not only penguins in the Arctic, bears in the Antarctic.
1173
00:59:09.380 --> 00:59:12.440
The very word Arctic means bear. So Antarctic should tell
1174
00:59:12.480 --> 00:59:15.539
you there are no bears there. That's true.
1175
00:59:15.599 --> 00:59:16.949
That's true. All right.
1176
00:59:17.610 --> 00:59:21.690
Well, I would say, because you said tak, I would
1177
00:59:21.730 --> 00:59:25.469
say velkommen. Thank you very much. You're welcome. That's a
1178
00:59:25.510 --> 00:59:29.219
great question. And there are a lot of misconceptions, but
1179
00:59:29.260 --> 00:59:32.960
the one that I find probably the most saddening for
1180
00:59:33.000 --> 00:59:38.480
me is the idea that vaccines are dangerous. That one
1181
00:59:38.619 --> 00:59:42.340
is the problem that bothers me a lot because there's
1182
00:59:42.440 --> 00:59:47.690
probably no science that has been better tested. And when
1183
00:59:47.750 --> 00:59:51.809
mistakes have been made, they have been corrected faster than
1184
00:59:52.530 --> 00:59:56.829
good vaccine science. And the Attempt of a lot of
1185
00:59:56.969 --> 01:00:01.280
people to prey on the fears and the insecurities of
1186
01:00:01.360 --> 01:00:05.539
parents or just people in general, that bothers me a lot.
1187
01:00:05.679 --> 01:00:08.289
I think that's the thing that drops my jaw the most. Okay.
1188
01:00:09.239 --> 01:00:11.179
Charles, that's deep. I'm just going to say Flat Earth,
1189
01:00:11.340 --> 01:00:13.920
but after that... Yeah, man.
1190
01:00:14.199 --> 01:00:16.550
Flat Earth ain't great either, okay? We'll say that.
1191
01:00:16.590 --> 01:00:19.210
Flat Earth never killed anybody, I think, is the thing. Well, actually,
1192
01:00:19.230 --> 01:00:20.070
it did kill one person.
1193
01:00:20.349 --> 01:00:21.150
It killed one guy.
1194
01:00:21.170 --> 01:00:23.489
It killed a guy who built his own rocket.
1195
01:00:23.530 --> 01:00:26.489
Built his rocket to go up supposedly to prove that
1196
01:00:26.510 --> 01:00:27.429
the Earth was flat.
1197
01:00:27.489 --> 01:00:29.690
Right, but he didn't get the Darwin Award. You know why?
1198
01:00:30.170 --> 01:00:30.329
Why?
1199
01:00:30.349 --> 01:00:31.389
He already had kids.
1200
01:00:32.269 --> 01:00:32.369
Oh.
1201
01:00:33.090 --> 01:00:34.349
The darn award you can't have kids.
1202
01:00:34.369 --> 01:00:36.510
You can't have kids because the whole idea is that.
1203
01:00:36.550 --> 01:00:37.429
The whole idea is you're not.
1204
01:00:37.570 --> 01:00:41.780
You're removed from the team. I don't want to disparage
1205
01:00:41.860 --> 01:00:45.820
anybody who falls for the pseudoscience, right? I mean, these
1206
01:00:45.860 --> 01:00:49.760
are not necessarily dumb people. These are not necessarily unkind people.
1207
01:00:49.820 --> 01:00:53.820
No, because it's an emotional decision that is made in ignorance.
1208
01:00:54.340 --> 01:00:57.309
And I say... I use the word ignorant there in
1209
01:00:57.389 --> 01:01:02.369
its most technical sense. And people think that they are protecting...
1210
01:01:02.119 --> 01:01:06.719
a child, their child, but their ignorance, unfortunately, puts the
1211
01:01:06.739 --> 01:01:12.210
child in peril because many, many needless deaths happen because
1212
01:01:12.289 --> 01:01:17.110
people do not vaccinate their children. And we have probably
1213
01:01:17.159 --> 01:01:22.219
the most tragic account of that was in Samoa when
1214
01:01:22.239 --> 01:01:27.139
RFK Jr., God only knows how he became in charge
1215
01:01:27.159 --> 01:01:30.699
of our country's health. He says he did not encourage
1216
01:01:30.860 --> 01:01:36.320
anyone to steer away from vaccines. But the truth is
1217
01:01:36.400 --> 01:01:40.570
he went there. He preached against it. People stopped vaccinating.
1218
01:01:40.909 --> 01:01:45.389
They had a measles outbreak and many children died. So
1219
01:01:45.570 --> 01:01:47.869
it's just that simple. Yeah, it's true.
1220
01:01:48.250 --> 01:01:52.150
We don't remember anymore how you would come back to
1221
01:01:52.250 --> 01:01:56.150
school after summer vacation. And look around and see who
1222
01:01:56.210 --> 01:01:59.309
amongst your friends from last year aren't there anymore because
1223
01:01:59.329 --> 01:02:02.690
they died of polio during the summer or because they
1224
01:02:02.710 --> 01:02:05.489
had some sort of childhood disease. We don't remember that.
1225
01:02:05.610 --> 01:02:07.130
It's a victim of its own success.
1226
01:02:07.489 --> 01:02:07.670
Yeah.
1227
01:02:07.769 --> 01:02:10.030
It's easy for us to think it's all fake, but
1228
01:02:10.110 --> 01:02:12.750
it absolutely is not. And the reason that we are
1229
01:02:12.909 --> 01:02:17.269
so luxuriously comfortable in our public health these days, as
1230
01:02:17.309 --> 01:02:21.159
bad as some healthcare issues are, We don't get those
1231
01:02:21.219 --> 01:02:23.710
kinds of disease anymore is because of the success of
1232
01:02:23.769 --> 01:02:25.670
the scientific vaccinations.
1233
01:02:25.809 --> 01:02:26.389
Absolutely.
1234
01:02:26.429 --> 01:02:27.889
That we have been fortunate.
1235
01:02:27.550 --> 01:02:27.849
Enough to enjoy.
1236
01:02:27.869 --> 01:02:29.309
It's the victim of its own success.
1237
01:02:29.329 --> 01:02:30.289
It's the victim of its own success.
1238
01:02:30.349 --> 01:02:35.199
It's the same thing as, in the simplest example, why
1239
01:02:35.260 --> 01:02:40.719
are you using dandruff shampoo? You don't have dandruff. Right. Yeah.
1240
01:02:41.260 --> 01:02:43.519
There you go. No, it's true.
1241
01:02:43.559 --> 01:02:45.760
Stop using the dandruff, Andrew. And you will.
1242
01:02:45.900 --> 01:02:46.860
And you will have dandruff.
1243
01:02:46.920 --> 01:02:47.179
Right.
1244
01:02:47.280 --> 01:02:47.780
It's that simple.
1245
01:02:47.900 --> 01:02:51.960
And another thing, we're recording this in January 2026. It's
1246
01:02:52.000 --> 01:02:57.380
still football season. And I will highlight for people on
1247
01:02:57.440 --> 01:03:01.070
the East Coast, because the sun sets early, so it
1248
01:03:01.090 --> 01:03:04.250
gets dark around 5 or 6 o'clock, when you are
1249
01:03:04.269 --> 01:03:08.909
watching a football game on the West Coast and the
1250
01:03:09.030 --> 01:03:15.110
sun is still up. This is the evidence. Earth is round. Okay.
1251
01:03:16.110 --> 01:03:20.170
I don't know how well that's the simplest evidence I
1252
01:03:20.210 --> 01:03:20.730
can give you.
1253
01:03:20.949 --> 01:03:21.409
Yeah.
1254
01:03:21.929 --> 01:03:22.329
Yeah.
1255
01:03:22.469 --> 01:03:23.269
It's unfortunate.
1256
01:03:23.489 --> 01:03:27.030
Um, I, the sun has not yet set in the
1257
01:03:27.050 --> 01:03:29.909
West for the people three time zones away from me.
1258
01:03:30.750 --> 01:03:33.329
It's, you know, windmills are, are a hoax.
1259
01:03:33.889 --> 01:03:34.050
Yeah.
1260
01:03:35.050 --> 01:03:35.230
Right.
1261
01:03:36.300 --> 01:03:39.320
Well, look, um, I, to me, you know, and this
1262
01:03:39.400 --> 01:03:41.699
is such a good question. And of course it comes
1263
01:03:41.820 --> 01:03:44.900
not from the United States. So it's not at all
1264
01:03:45.420 --> 01:03:49.619
anything about our country or any individual society or country,
1265
01:03:50.179 --> 01:03:51.469
but when there.
1266
01:03:51.389 --> 01:03:53.289
Is the origin of the question, the person who asked
1267
01:03:53.349 --> 01:03:53.789
the question.
1268
01:03:53.809 --> 01:03:54.050
Yeah.
1269
01:03:54.110 --> 01:03:54.269
Yeah.
1270
01:03:54.289 --> 01:03:54.409
Yeah.
1271
01:03:54.429 --> 01:03:54.929
The question.
1272
01:03:54.969 --> 01:03:55.269
Thank you.
1273
01:03:55.809 --> 01:03:59.889
We have to remember that everybody is subject to ignorance.
1274
01:04:00.230 --> 01:04:03.210
There are things that each one of us does not know.
1275
01:04:03.329 --> 01:04:05.750
It may be different depending on where we are. So
1276
01:04:05.889 --> 01:04:09.590
instead of like, forgetting about it and just being angry
1277
01:04:09.650 --> 01:04:13.489
about it. We got to reach out and continue to
1278
01:04:13.670 --> 01:04:18.960
convince folks and under help them understand that whatever you think, uh,
1279
01:04:19.159 --> 01:04:22.360
you may know, please be sure to check it with
1280
01:04:22.440 --> 01:04:25.440
as many people as possible and as many different reliable
1281
01:04:25.500 --> 01:04:28.159
sources as you can so that you can really get
1282
01:04:28.199 --> 01:04:28.880
it done. Right.
1283
01:04:29.260 --> 01:04:30.989
All you need to do is look at a 20
1284
01:04:30.989 --> 01:04:33.090
minute YouTube video and then you become the expert.
1285
01:04:33.489 --> 01:04:34.929
Yeah. Right.
1286
01:04:35.130 --> 01:04:35.690
Thanks, Neil.
1287
01:04:35.949 --> 01:04:38.469
Especially if that video is hosted by Joe Rogan.
1288
01:04:39.170 --> 01:04:44.789
Oh, my goodness. So what you're missing there, Charles, I think, is,
1289
01:04:45.670 --> 01:04:49.489
you know, we're all educators here. And the word ignorance,
1290
01:04:49.730 --> 01:04:53.769
as Chuck accurately described in its formal definition, it just
1291
01:04:53.809 --> 01:04:57.090
means you don't know something. So we thrive in the
1292
01:04:57.150 --> 01:05:00.650
space of where others are ignorant because we teach them.
1293
01:05:00.949 --> 01:05:04.050
That is what we do as educators. The problem is
1294
01:05:04.170 --> 01:05:07.559
not when people are ignorant of a truth. The problem
1295
01:05:07.659 --> 01:05:10.579
is when they are ignorant of a truth and don't
1296
01:05:10.679 --> 01:05:14.590
know they're ignorant of the truth and assert that they
1297
01:05:14.630 --> 01:05:18.429
know what they're talking about. Then it's a battle. They're
1298
01:05:18.449 --> 01:05:21.190
not just a student in your class eager to learn
1299
01:05:21.230 --> 01:05:25.730
what is true from an expert. There's some other construct
1300
01:05:26.170 --> 01:05:30.389
in society where people are rejecting the advice of experts
1301
01:05:31.070 --> 01:05:34.449
on the basis of what someone who's not an expert
1302
01:05:34.489 --> 01:05:36.800
told them, like I said, or they did their own
1303
01:05:36.860 --> 01:05:38.480
research spending 20 minutes on YouTube.
1304
01:05:39.920 --> 01:05:43.760
So what we need to do is just remind ourselves
1305
01:05:43.820 --> 01:05:44.940
that too, right? Yes.
1306
01:05:45.119 --> 01:05:48.539
Our greatest- Tactically, it's two different things.
1307
01:05:48.800 --> 01:05:53.079
Right. As scientists, our greatest power is to be able
1308
01:05:53.159 --> 01:05:55.889
to say, I don't know, and not feel bad about
1309
01:05:55.949 --> 01:05:58.530
ourselves about it. Right. And what we want to do
1310
01:05:58.550 --> 01:05:59.610
is to help other people do that.
1311
01:05:59.789 --> 01:06:04.969
It was the first branch of human inquiry where I
1312
01:06:04.989 --> 01:06:08.679
don't know became a fundamental part of discovery.
1313
01:06:08.980 --> 01:06:14.980
And something good. It's something good. And you know what?
1314
01:06:15.059 --> 01:06:18.099
I hate to say this. I'm happy to say it.
1315
01:06:18.500 --> 01:06:21.139
That it's the number one thing that I have learned
1316
01:06:21.159 --> 01:06:24.110
from scientists and hanging out with scientists for all these
1317
01:06:24.150 --> 01:06:30.889
years now is, one, I celebrate my own ignorance. I
1318
01:06:30.929 --> 01:06:35.969
think it's a great thing because when I don't know something,
1319
01:06:36.840 --> 01:06:43.849
guess what I do? It's that simple. And so there's
1320
01:06:43.909 --> 01:06:46.989
no shame in not knowing. And it's a wonderful thing. Uh,
1321
01:06:47.360 --> 01:06:51.440
you're just ever growing. Not knowing is ever growing. That's
1322
01:06:51.480 --> 01:06:52.610
what I, that's the way I look at it.
1323
01:06:52.619 --> 01:06:56.780
Nice little phrase. Ooh, catchy. Not knowing plus curiosity is
1324
01:06:56.900 --> 01:06:57.280
ever growing.
1325
01:06:57.300 --> 01:06:58.340
Yes, yes, exactly.
1326
01:06:59.239 --> 01:06:59.400
Right.
1327
01:06:59.420 --> 01:07:03.090
Yeah. You can't just stop with the not knowing. Right.
1328
01:07:03.130 --> 01:07:04.389
Gary, what do you have on that list?
1329
01:07:05.389 --> 01:07:06.769
Uh, Not much, really.
1330
01:07:06.809 --> 01:07:09.550
I think it's... In the UK, was there anything specific
1331
01:07:09.590 --> 01:07:12.989
when you were growing up that was particularly anti-science or
1332
01:07:13.360 --> 01:07:14.940
science ignorant?
1333
01:07:15.000 --> 01:07:15.340
No.
1334
01:07:15.460 --> 01:07:18.840
I remember, you know, get vaccinated, get there, do this,
1335
01:07:18.920 --> 01:07:23.480
do that. My father was a technician in the physics
1336
01:07:23.539 --> 01:07:26.260
lab at East London Polytechnic, which is now East London.
1337
01:07:26.280 --> 01:07:27.119
You never told us that.
1338
01:07:27.699 --> 01:07:28.309
Oh, cool.
1339
01:07:28.429 --> 01:07:29.110
Yeah.
1340
01:07:29.190 --> 01:07:30.630
And you're the son of the soccer player. Okay.
1341
01:07:30.670 --> 01:07:30.750
Yes.
1342
01:07:31.010 --> 01:07:31.210
Yes.
1343
01:07:32.889 --> 01:07:34.869
The fruit fell off the tree and rolled away.
1344
01:07:35.070 --> 01:07:39.949
The only professional footballer in the UK whose father is like,
1345
01:07:40.110 --> 01:07:41.210
such a disappointment.
1346
01:07:44.429 --> 01:07:48.050
Where did we go wrong?
1347
01:07:48.179 --> 01:07:54.860
Our son, that professional footballer. The life that everybody wants
1348
01:07:54.920 --> 01:07:55.340
to live.
1349
01:07:56.840 --> 01:07:58.219
I'd walk in the room and you'd just see his
1350
01:07:58.260 --> 01:07:58.500
head go.
1351
01:08:00.940 --> 01:08:03.360
Hilarious. Hilarious. All right.
1352
01:08:03.380 --> 01:08:04.800
I think we've got time for one last question if
1353
01:08:04.840 --> 01:08:05.400
we do it quick.
1354
01:08:05.780 --> 01:08:09.260
All right. Margot Lane, Osage is on the cosmic mountain.
1355
01:08:09.320 --> 01:08:11.500
As I watch the monks for peace walk from Texas
1356
01:08:11.519 --> 01:08:14.300
to DC, I'm struck by the constancy of their energy,
1357
01:08:14.679 --> 01:08:17.850
how they all seem like one on some molecular level.
1358
01:08:18.590 --> 01:08:20.069
Are we all one being?
1359
01:08:20.949 --> 01:08:22.869
Wow.
1360
01:08:22.970 --> 01:08:24.289
Deep end of the swimming pool, guys.
1361
01:08:24.590 --> 01:08:26.909
I'm a fast starter there, but it's not the answer,
1362
01:08:26.930 --> 01:08:32.399
but it's a starter information. We walked out of Africa
1363
01:08:32.739 --> 01:08:36.939
into Europe, Asia, across the Bering Strait, North America into
1364
01:08:36.979 --> 01:08:41.239
South America. We walked that. So human beings and walking
1365
01:08:41.960 --> 01:08:46.609
is something we genetically know how to do. I just
1366
01:08:46.630 --> 01:08:48.170
want to put that on the table right now.
1367
01:08:48.909 --> 01:08:52.289
So if they're constantly moving and so forth, I don't
1368
01:08:52.329 --> 01:08:54.529
know that they're one single organism, but what they are
1369
01:08:54.600 --> 01:08:58.340
is they're communicating really well. They're able to listen to
1370
01:08:58.399 --> 01:09:01.399
each other or see each other and they can synchronize
1371
01:09:01.439 --> 01:09:04.380
their steps and their pace and their speed and things
1372
01:09:04.420 --> 01:09:07.119
like that so in a sense although we are many
1373
01:09:07.949 --> 01:09:10.229
or though they are many they are able to put
1374
01:09:10.270 --> 01:09:12.050
themselves together and move as.
1375
01:09:12.149 --> 01:09:15.949
One and clearly Being a monk is not the prerequisite
1376
01:09:15.979 --> 01:09:19.100
for that because soldiers do that as well who are
1377
01:09:19.399 --> 01:09:20.720
marching somewhere to do harm.
1378
01:09:21.560 --> 01:09:21.859
Okay.
1379
01:09:22.319 --> 01:09:26.199
And so it's a human thing, not so much that
1380
01:09:26.340 --> 01:09:28.970
they are monks in the interest of peace.
1381
01:09:29.890 --> 01:09:33.649
That is why we have the Department of War and
1382
01:09:33.710 --> 01:09:34.670
no DEI.
1383
01:09:37.789 --> 01:09:39.810
Well, I think the monks have something to say about that.
1384
01:09:40.029 --> 01:09:40.840
Yeah, exactly.
1385
01:09:40.859 --> 01:09:41.180
There you go.
1386
01:09:42.159 --> 01:09:42.579
I love it.
1387
01:09:43.729 --> 01:09:48.039
But, Chuck, you did ayahuasca at one point. I did.
1388
01:09:48.100 --> 01:09:51.779
Did you find yourself resonating spiritually with others on the
1389
01:09:51.819 --> 01:09:52.920
same wavelength kind of thing?
1390
01:09:53.100 --> 01:09:54.260
I know we don't have a lot of time, so
1391
01:09:54.279 --> 01:09:57.729
I'm going to make this quick. The oneness you feel
1392
01:09:57.930 --> 01:10:02.329
is not just with person kind. You actually feel connected
1393
01:10:02.829 --> 01:10:06.159
to like everyone who's in the Malacca with you, which
1394
01:10:06.250 --> 01:10:09.229
is the sacred place where the rituals are, but you
1395
01:10:09.350 --> 01:10:13.310
also feel like all the other people out there, like everywhere,
1396
01:10:13.630 --> 01:10:17.329
all at once. And then, I can't explain this, you
1397
01:10:17.529 --> 01:10:23.779
feel a oneness with all that is the universe itself.
1398
01:10:24.739 --> 01:10:28.600
And this is all happening inside of your head, but
1399
01:10:28.680 --> 01:10:31.229
outside of your being. All at once.
1400
01:10:31.689 --> 01:10:35.229
So monks are trained. I mean, I don't know if
1401
01:10:35.250 --> 01:10:39.800
this is the meditative branch of monks, but presumably, Chuck,
1402
01:10:40.069 --> 01:10:42.159
one might be able to reach that state of consciousness
1403
01:10:42.579 --> 01:10:43.260
without drugs.
1404
01:10:43.539 --> 01:10:44.180
Oh, without a doubt.
1405
01:10:45.000 --> 01:10:50.020
Yeah. And you feel that connectivity just as the questioner
1406
01:10:50.060 --> 01:10:50.920
was inquiring.
1407
01:10:50.939 --> 01:10:52.600
You know, I don't have time for that. So I
1408
01:10:52.640 --> 01:10:57.229
went to a place called Rhythmia in Costa Rica. And
1409
01:10:57.289 --> 01:10:57.949
I spent a week.
1410
01:10:58.390 --> 01:11:00.140
You don't have time to learn any mental tricks.
1411
01:11:00.149 --> 01:11:01.640
I don't have time to learn it, and they did
1412
01:11:01.649 --> 01:11:03.420
it for me. And it was amazing.
1413
01:11:06.420 --> 01:11:08.899
Well, plus, we all like choruses when they sing together.
1414
01:11:09.180 --> 01:11:14.199
And we highly value coordinated efforts in our culture and
1415
01:11:14.239 --> 01:11:17.600
our society. And Charles, you sang in it. You sang
1416
01:11:17.640 --> 01:11:18.399
solo or chorus?
1417
01:11:19.640 --> 01:11:20.000
Everything.
1418
01:11:20.680 --> 01:11:23.600
And whether it was solo and you were connecting with
1419
01:11:23.640 --> 01:11:26.449
an audience or whether it was in a choir, When
1420
01:11:26.510 --> 01:11:28.829
you're with a whole bunch of like-minded people trying to
1421
01:11:28.909 --> 01:11:32.109
produce one single piece of music, it was a connection
1422
01:11:32.369 --> 01:11:34.050
that really transcends the individual.
1423
01:11:34.350 --> 01:11:34.770
It does.
1424
01:11:35.149 --> 01:11:38.729
There was no need for any kind of external drugs
1425
01:11:38.930 --> 01:11:44.479
or whatever, nor years of training. It was just listening, watching, following,
1426
01:11:44.979 --> 01:11:48.260
and everybody together somehow trying to get something more than themselves.
1427
01:11:48.979 --> 01:11:49.800
Of a common mind.
1428
01:11:50.140 --> 01:11:52.020
Yeah, and if the monks were able to achieve that.
1429
01:11:52.050 --> 01:11:52.899
Mind, body, spirit.
1430
01:11:53.050 --> 01:11:56.170
Yeah, that's exactly what we're doing. I would love to
1431
01:11:56.189 --> 01:11:57.909
see these monks singing on ayahuasca.
1432
01:11:58.430 --> 01:12:00.689
Okay.
1433
01:12:04.149 --> 01:12:05.289
On that note.
1434
01:12:05.529 --> 01:12:09.210
Exactly.
1435
01:12:09.989 --> 01:12:14.010
I think that's all the time we have. So, Charles Liu,
1436
01:12:14.050 --> 01:12:21.300
you've got the quantum physics handy thing. This thing, the.
1437
01:12:21.079 --> 01:12:22.600
Andy Quantum Physics answer book.
1438
01:12:22.689 --> 01:12:24.010
I'm not in my office right now, but I have
1439
01:12:24.050 --> 01:12:25.550
two copies on my shelf, just so you know.
1440
01:12:25.590 --> 01:12:26.489
That's very sweet of you.
1441
01:12:26.510 --> 01:12:28.569
That makes you just a little wealthier because I bought
1442
01:12:28.590 --> 01:12:29.289
an extra copy.
1443
01:12:29.569 --> 01:12:30.409
Oh, thank you.
1444
01:12:30.789 --> 01:12:33.890
There that is. No, it's quite the complete, because there's
1445
01:12:33.909 --> 01:12:37.930
so many dangling bits that people, they hear bits and
1446
01:12:37.970 --> 01:12:40.310
pieces of quantum, they don't put it all together. And
1447
01:12:40.350 --> 01:12:41.270
that book does that.
1448
01:12:41.630 --> 01:12:44.210
In the year or so since that book came out,
1449
01:12:44.250 --> 01:12:46.329
there's been all kinds of new stuff. So there's going
1450
01:12:46.350 --> 01:12:48.590
to have to be another edition soon because it just
1451
01:12:48.609 --> 01:12:49.109
keeps growing.
1452
01:12:49.899 --> 01:12:54.859
And Chuck, we posted your comedy special, Just Smart Enough.
1453
01:12:55.220 --> 01:12:55.840
That's correct.
1454
01:12:56.119 --> 01:12:58.260
It was New Year's Eve Eve, I think we posted it.
1455
01:12:58.279 --> 01:12:58.840
That is correct.
1456
01:12:58.920 --> 01:13:00.159
On our main channel, wasn't it?
1457
01:13:00.420 --> 01:13:00.979
That's correct.
1458
01:13:01.510 --> 01:13:04.729
And so this is, it dropped then. Check it out.
1459
01:13:04.850 --> 01:13:06.069
It's all there and it's free.
1460
01:13:06.529 --> 01:13:09.390
Yep. Go watch it. Apparently it's been well-received. The people
1461
01:13:09.430 --> 01:13:11.989
are loving it. And I'm very, very happy about that.
1462
01:13:12.109 --> 01:13:17.189
It's very satisfying to see the StarTalk audience happy. supporting
1463
01:13:17.229 --> 01:13:18.840
the show that much. It's very cool.
1464
01:13:18.859 --> 01:13:20.979
You know the most evil thing someone said in the comments?
1465
01:13:21.260 --> 01:13:21.460
What?
1466
01:13:22.359 --> 01:13:24.659
They said, you know, I used to come to StarTalk
1467
01:13:24.960 --> 01:13:27.399
to hear Neil deGrasse Tyson, but now I do it
1468
01:13:27.439 --> 01:13:32.420
to hear Chuck.
1469
01:13:33.079 --> 01:13:34.619
That was my brother who wrote that.
1470
01:13:34.689 --> 01:13:36.109
Tony, I owe you $ 20. It's coming soon.
1471
01:13:36.170 --> 01:13:36.369
Gary.
1472
01:13:36.529 --> 01:13:39.090
Yes, Neil. Got to get a gig for.
1473
01:13:46.439 --> 01:13:49.500
Announcing for the world cup and we'll, we'll all come listen.
1474
01:13:49.939 --> 01:13:51.119
All right. Let's see what I can do.
1475
01:13:52.000 --> 01:13:53.649
Just before we go, I'd like to say thank you
1476
01:13:53.659 --> 01:13:56.810
to all our Patreon group that has supplied questions here today.
1477
01:13:56.850 --> 01:13:58.890
There were so many, and we just only have time
1478
01:13:58.930 --> 01:13:59.949
for so many, but.
1479
01:14:00.050 --> 01:14:03.090
Uh, and we look jury eight occasionally on one.
1480
01:14:03.130 --> 01:14:05.909
There were 35 pages of questions. Thank you.
1481
01:14:05.970 --> 01:14:08.550
Thank you so much. Good guys at Patreon.
1482
01:14:09.210 --> 01:14:09.720
All right.
1483
01:14:10.380 --> 01:14:14.979
Well, that's been yet another installment of StarTalk special edition.
1484
01:14:15.739 --> 01:14:17.710
This one was a grab bag, a good one, too,
1485
01:14:17.949 --> 01:14:21.550
with our geek and chief, Charles Liu. Guys, always good
1486
01:14:21.569 --> 01:14:22.109
to have you here.
1487
01:14:22.409 --> 01:14:23.720
Always a pleasure. Thank you, Neil.
1488
01:14:24.149 --> 01:14:25.359
What a joy. Thank you.
1489
01:14:25.720 --> 01:14:30.260
Neil deGrasse Tyson here, your personal astrophysicist. As always, keep
1490
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looking up.