00:00:07
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Splash Hit Territory. I'm Jeremy Affelt. Susan Slusser has joined me. Full transparency, we're doing this for the second time, kind of. So we had some technical difficulties. It's okay. It's part of it. It's part of the deal. But Susan, thank you for joining me. We have a lot of fun stuff to talk about. Obviously, we're going to continue to talk about things every week, and that is Giants baseball, what's happening, who's going, who's staying, who could potentially go, you know, all those different things. So I do want to talk about that because I think that there are a few different, I know you and Scott talked about it a few times, but I do feel like any untouchables should be talked about. Are there any untouchables? Are there guys that we feel, and I know you feel there's only a couple. I definitely feel Eldridge. I think we're on the same page there. Definitely an untouchable for me. Everybody, Devers, He could be a coin flip, but I think he, I personally think he's an untouchable because of his Homer status and his ability to protect Eldridge. And I think Webb has to stay for leadership purposes on the big league roster. I think that other than that, I don't think anybody's untouchable on the big league roster. I know you feel about, excuse me, feel differently a little bit about some of the minor league guys. There are some guys down there because there is going to be teams calling. They know Buster needs guys. And they know what he has in the minor leagues, and they know what he has in the big leagues a little bit. So I'm sure you're hearing some stuff about that.
00:01:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good question. First of all, I really think, honestly, there's probably only one true untouchable, and that's Bryce Eldridge. That, honestly, is maybe not necessarily a good sort of– a thing for the Giants, right? You'd love to have a lot of guys that are great. So you go like, that guy's untouchable, that guy's untouchable. But that's why I think it's Bryce. Maybe Jackson Flora. They love what they're seeing from him. I don't, you know, he's certainly not a guy where if you're getting close on a deal and they say, we want Jackson Flora, probably not. And I'm guessing that out of all of those young shortstops, the guys that are sort of in class A, high A, Gonzalez, Hernandez, Gavin Keelan, Johnny level. I think maybe they've probably identified internally one guy that maybe not untouchable, but like they would probably go like, let's get like maybe one of the other guys. This is the one we kind of want to prioritize hanging on to. That's not necessarily meeting the definition of untouchable, but everyone else is probably on the table. The problem, Jeremy, is What the Giants' needs are, they don't necessarily have to go out and give up one of their best players or one of their best prospects. They need relievers, typically. No offense to you, obviously. Relievers typically aren't guys that require a ton in return. They also need starters. So it depends on who you go after, if you go after a starter. And if you're going after a starter, you're certainly not also going to trade Logan Webb, which I wouldn't do. Anyway, I don't think Logan's untouchable, but I would be extremely, extremely surprised if they traded him. Yeah.
00:03:25
Speaker 1: And when you go after a reliever and you have to give up a few guys, it's usually a team that has this big time guy that they're going in a different direction, right? Or they're like, hey, you're going to take our closer. That's fine because we're actually going in a little different direction. We need to free up some payroll, but we need some big league guys ready in return. We've got to have It doesn't mean it has to be big, big time guys. It's like, well, but can we get a couple of your relievers that were in the big leagues now? Because at least they have had some big league time and we know that we can build off of that. You're not going to have to give up, you know, any top prospects or anything like that. It's just doesn't matter. It doesn't make sense because the injury scenario could be terrible.
00:04:07
Speaker 2: Right.
00:04:07
Speaker 1: So you're not going to do that with relievers. You're just not, but you do have to go after some big relievers. You're going to have to pay on the free agent market. or you're going to have to take on money. Like if you go after, I know you mentioned, you, you mentioned a guy, you mentioned Ryan from the, from the twins, right? You mentioned him.
00:04:24
Speaker 2: Oh yeah. I mean, you know, it's part of the rotation. So then if you're going to spend a little more, give up a little more starter.
00:04:32
Speaker 3: Sure.
00:04:33
Speaker 1: Yes. Yes. And I think you should give up something for a starter.
00:04:37
Speaker 2: I do.
00:04:38
Speaker 1: I don't, I kind of, I, I, I still have a little bit of some, um, I'm sure Sabian does too. Uh, I love Beltran, uh, I played with him in Kansas City. But when we gave up Zach Wheeler for Beltran and then he got hurt and then he left, that's what Buster doesn't want to do is give up a Zach Wheeler type guy. I don't think this Florida guy you want to give up because if he gives up a guy and then he goes somewhere else and wins a Cy Young and then all of a sudden he's like a mainstream number one starter for the next 10 years, that you don't want to do. I don't think you should give up any guys that you think can be in your rotation is a number one, two or three guy in the minor leagues. Anytime soon. I just, I don't think that's a smart play unless you, I mean, I don't see, I think you can give up some infielders. You can give up some, some pitching prospects possibly, but I don't think you give up a guys of guys like that, that early, because that was, that was a, that was a boof right there.
00:05:36
Speaker 2: No, I don't like trading a top pitching prospect. And that one still looks bad. Like that guy is still legit. You know, and that look, think how long ago that was. That guy is still great. Obviously, you know, his, his service time, all of that, he would have been, you know, with club control way over a long time ago, but you still go like, Oh my God, this guy is still so good.
00:05:56
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:05:57
Speaker 2: The guys I mentioned, Jeremy were almost all starters, Spencer Strider possible. Honestly, um, you know, he's coming off an elbow thing and, uh, he had, he's got a team option for 2029, but he's, he's, he's making a pretty penny, but he's, you know, he was one of the better starters in the leagues, uh, for the elbow thing. So I think he's worth maybe a something in a trade, um, read Detmers, you know, the angels, I think the angels are probably right for, for trading some guys out of the rotation, Shane McClanahan. I, you know, I, look, the rays are probably, it's going to be tougher to get to pry anyone away from any of these teams at this point. And, uh, yeah, but Logan Gilbert, the Mariners love to trade. So I don't know, George Kirby or low or Logan Gilbert. I kind of like both of those guys, but let's get back to the bullpen for a second.
00:06:51
Speaker 1: I love hater. I think you should go after a guy like that. I think he'd be an awesome guy to go up because he can pitch great in San Francisco and, He's got power. He knows how to compete. I think a guy like that, because a guy like hater, he's got enough time in the big leagues where I don't have to necessarily give up a lot for him, but I can get, if I'm looking at trying to build for the next two or three years and win for the next two or three years, and I'm trying to take advantage and I'm sure we'll talk about it. I'm trying to take advantage of the Dodgers scenario of like got a little exposed in the playoffs. Padres are competing and, But I still think if you can get a guy like that, you can slam the door on those guys. And you don't have to give up a ton. You might have to take on some payroll. Fine, take on some payroll, but get a guy like that. So that's kind of the guy that I would be hunting and teams willing to give him up.
00:07:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, the Astros have to figure out where they see themselves. Like, they're essentially a 500 team this year, but they did make the playoffs. Do they think they can still win? Do they think that they're, you know, maybe not in that position? I don't know. In that division, you know, maybe you want to hang on to somebody like that. But Zach Manassian has a pre-existing really good relationship with Josh Hader, too. That probably adds a little bonus there.
00:08:09
Speaker 3: Luke Weaver?
00:08:10
Speaker 2: Pirates, also a nice possibility. They're not in a situation where they're probably thinking we're winning now. We need to hang on to this guy. And I know you wanted to talk about blockbusters. I guess maybe we should do that after we have a quick break. But the next guy I'd thrown out there would definitely probably have to be a blockbuster. I'm still getting heat for it, too. You know who I'm talking about, everybody. Yeah.
00:08:33
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:08:36
Speaker 2: Maybe a quick word from a sponsor before we go on. Anything controversial. Will that keep everybody paying attention back?
00:08:45
Speaker 1: AJ, in this post.
00:08:48
Speaker 2: This one.
00:08:53
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00:09:14
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00:09:27
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00:09:37
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00:09:51
Speaker 3: Can use it later.
00:09:54
Speaker 1: All right, SeatGeek. Awesome. Awesome. Using SeatGeek over there for your concerts? Susan?
00:10:01
Speaker 2: No, I've got those all planned out in advance, but I was just thinking if I was back in the Bay Area, 100% would be hitting SeatGeek for Valkyries tickets. Absolutely. That's that. I mean, they're always the hot ticket, but right now, are you kidding me? We could devote a whole show as far as I'm concerned to the Valkyries. Man, they're fun. That's such a good story.
00:10:21
Speaker 1: That's awesome. That's awesome. Well, you think blockbuster deal. You think, what move are you thinking? If you're in Buster's brain right now, what are you wanting?
00:10:34
Speaker 2: Well, people are regular listeners or read the Chronicle. Look, it was kind of throwaway because I don't think it will happen. But if I'm Buster... knowing the Giants' needs. And I know A.J. Preller loves a trade. I am going so hard after Mason Miller. Now, okay, maybe that does take Bryce Eldridge. And no, I would not trade Bryce Eldridge probably for Mason Miller. But I'd trade one or two of those young shortstops. I'd trade some good young arms. I'd be pretty willing to listen to just about anybody. He comes with some red flags. He had a UCL sprain injury. uh i think 23 that he rehabbed and you know what he throws 100 plus yeah you know could be a little bit of something to be a concern or whatever uh which preller knows which the giants know everybody or what is aware of that so i don't know if that factors at all um you do have to be careful though about not maybe selling the whole farm for a guy who's potentially an injury risk but yeah That is the spot where they need a no-brainer guy, and there's nobody better than Mason Miller, also a great dude.
00:11:41
Speaker 1: But do you think the Padres get to the playoffs without him? If you're the new ownership, and you're the new ownership, and I've got to get back to the playoffs, and these guys are chomping at the bit, and they're going to dump some money, I think the new ownership is going to dump some money. So I think the Padres are going to be they're going to be contenders for a little bit. And I just don't know if you can get recover that. I don't know if you can hit, you have a guy that can back that up. So would you be willing to risk that?
00:12:13
Speaker 2: Well, that's, you know, you obviously, you also have a guy there who you could give a qualifying offer to save a little money in more a home. He's a guy I've thrown out there as probably the top.
00:12:25
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
00:12:27
Speaker 2: He could close for me. They probably feel the same way. You could give him a qualifying offer, maybe look to extend him, something like that. And maybe go, you know, also then get a haul from another team if you want to trade Mason Miller. But look, OK, again.
00:12:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. You're tossing it up there. It's a long shot. But I get it. I get it. But what about a David Bednar?
00:12:52
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:12:52
Speaker 1: I mean, 35 saves in 2026. I mean, you know, he's a proven closer. He went out and did his job. He does it. He's done. He does it well. And he's a guy that's going to come in and he has no intimidation. A guy like that guy is not going to look at anybody that he's facing at any time and be like, I don't know if I can get it done. You know, I just want guys with good mentalities is what I'm saying. You know, I need a guy, not just stuff. I need you to have that just that go out there with that tenacity and a little bit of craziness, a little bit of weirdness to go out there and say, I'm just going to get it done.
00:13:26
Speaker 2: And he's been through it, you know, from the Pittsburgh area. I mean, Will Bednar, I think most Giants fans know Will Bednar is in the Giants system. They're from that area. And he had a rough season with Pittsburgh a couple years ago, two or three years ago, and really, you know, lost the closer spot. That's rough. He goes through that. And then with the Yankees, of all teams, you know, really flourishes again and turns back into a really good closer. So certainly worth going after. But if we're talking blockbuster trades at all, the one guy I think that is still potentially a blockbuster, and it was a blockbuster when Buster got him, it's so hard to say blockbuster Buster, is Devers, simply because of the power. And he showed yet again that by the end of every season, he's going to be right around sort of approaching that 40 homer mark. He looks now very good at first base. You know, there's some glitches here and there, but the Giants do have Eldridge. That's one where they could go, hey, is somebody willing to take on probably most, maybe not all of this contract and give us something, give us a starter, give us a really good young reliever with some service time? You'd have to think that they would consider that given the fact that, you know, basically as much as anything, they've got Bryce who can play first base every day.
00:14:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just really worry about if Chapman was healthy and if I saw a healthy Chapman playing, if I saw a healthy Adamas, if I felt like those guys were going to– I have not seen them in the last couple years really write the story for me where it's like I can give up a Devers because I feel like if you give up Devers, you're giving up a lot of RBIs and a lot of power and a few months. Not every month. Cause I know he's a slow starter, but he's a few months where he will literally carry you and he will be a damage deficit for another team of where he's going to punch a three hole in you. And it's going to be like, dang, we just gave up three. I don't know if I'm willing to take that risk right now because I don't trust the Chapman dominance deal. If I trusted that a little bit more, maybe I just don't know if I can give up as hard. It is, is it is for that? And they, and they scored more. They did fine on the offense this year. No one's, bagging the offensive production I they shouldn't I don't think they should I think their defense and I think their pitching was good you know was struggling but especially late in the game I just don't know if I'm willing to give up Devers at this moment if I don't feel like Chapman and Damas can can cover me on that.
00:16:02
Speaker 2: So yeah it's fair um and here's another thing to consider I probably mentioned this before but Devers falls in the category of um when I was covering the A's and they acquired Yohannes Cespedes. I remember Billy being saying, this is the kind of guy we cannot get to come to Oakland. And then was crazy and traded him coming, you know, the team was in first place and it hurt them. Don't, don't get rid of those guys. We can't get these guys in our town. Buster said something similar about Devers when they, he made the Devers trade. This is the guy that we've been kind of trying to look for. We can't sign him.
00:16:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, You can't sign them in that ballpark, in that situation. This is why you've lost out on every, not necessarily the reason why, but one of the factors that you lost out on Judge, you lost out on Otani, was because those guys were, one, you got to prove to me you're going to win. I'm not guaranteed that proof. And two, that ballpark is not always easy to hit in. So you can't just get those guys. I will promise you Devers hits the free agent market We go after Devers. He's not going to be like, yeah, sign me up. Like I know their options, you know, he's not going to do it, you know? So, so that's where you have to trade for those guys. And that's why I don't think you should give up that situation because I keep that. At least I keep that chess piece on the board. I think I've got to try to figure out ways to build an off a pitching staff. I think you're right. I think you go after two. I think you got to go after two starters. Pitching is not that hard to sign there because people love to pitch in the ballpark. So go after that situation, you know, guys that, you know, want to, it's San Francisco is like the reverse of Colorado. Every hitter in the freaking world would be a fight to the bat rack to sign there. If they thought they could win there, they would a hundred percent go there. And then it's the opposite. It's, you know, you're going to get starting pitching, but starting pitching, even if you have starting pitching and relievers, if you're going to do a free agent deal, you've got to convince them. I think the giants have a little bit more invincibility because they show where they have offense and, It's the defense that I'm concerned about. And if I was a starter sitting with Buster, I'd be like, hold on a second. So you want to, you want me to come in there and I don't have an idea of Adamas is going to be playing or not playing. I don't know if Chapman's there. You had guys that could play chat. Now they made some, we had some pretty good guys playing third basis here, but the shortstop situation for me would be a little nerve wracking. And, and this, I remember Adamas put up 20 plus homers. So the guys has power, you know, like, and it's like, I just feel like as a starter, you've got to convince me that we're going to win there. And I think he can, but you're going to convince me more if you say, well, if I walk out of there with a two one ball game or a five to two or five to three lead that the guy you're bringing in behind me is going to seal the deal. And if you can't convince me of that, I'm signing for a bunch of no decisions in, in, in, in losing, you know? So I think that, I think it starts, for me, it's going to start with the bullpen, and then you work your way to the starter. I really do. I think you've got to make some deals for some bullpen guys.
00:19:16
Speaker 2: I think, first of all, we've talked about this before. Adamas, if he starts off next year the way he played this year defensively, they're going to have to consider moving him to second. Tough to do during the season. Do we maybe broach it in the spring? Have him work at it both? I don't know if somebody with his veteran status and on that kind of a contract, if you do, or if you just go like, hope he's better defensively. That's not supposed to be a good strategy. Hope it was the back. He he needs to reestablish himself as a good defensive player. He was last year. So yeah, that's very important. They do have Marcelo Meyer. Who's a very good short stub. He could play there. You know, you could always have Casey Schmidt there. He's pretty good at shorts. Third's his best spot. I mean, they do have, they do have options there, but I know you really wanted to talk a little bit about the post season. Yeah. And some of the blueprints that, you know, you look at the Brewers, you look at the Rays, and they are doing it with defense. They're doing it with things we know Buster loves. Contact hitting, defense, great pitching. Although I think Freddy Peralta is now taking himself out of the price range where I was thinking he can get Freddy Peralta.
00:20:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
00:20:32
Speaker 2: So he's been great. Really good to see. But yeah, these are the blueprints when you play in that kind of ballpark, like Oracle. Do these things. Now, the Rays take it almost to an extreme. Maybe mix in some more homers than that. But I have said so many times how much I love the Brewers and how the Brewers play. Zach Manassian does too.
00:20:59
Speaker 3: Of course.
00:20:59
Speaker 1: It came from there.
00:21:01
Speaker 2: They kind of already are the blueprint. The Giants are taking baby steps that way. But some of the guys we saw in the second half, some of the guys we saw maybe in the last month, are the kind of guys who could maybe play like that, particularly when it comes to things like, you know, obviously the running game. But the defense, the contact hitting, the pitching. Yep.
00:21:20
Speaker 1: Yes, do that. And that is the, I think the Brewers are a perfect example of how you play the game of baseball. Like in how they're doing it. It's good pitching. slam the door when you need to make some great plays, timely hitting power ball. When you have to power it, these guys have all now that doesn't mean they're going to do it next year. I don't know, but it's two years in a row. So two years in a row. Now you put up some pretty good wins. They're used to winning quite a bit and they're not, they don't have a payroll. It's not top. It's like what? 19th in the league right now. Like, like they don't have a crazy payroll, but they're showing. And it was funny. Like, I don't always agree with Alex Rodriguez is, thoughts on baseball a lot of times, but he did make a good thought process the other day when he was like, it's, it's perfect how you're doing it. You got timely hitting, you got great pitching, you got athleticism, you got guys that have good baseball IQ. They understand when they're supposed to go and not supposed to go. They get it. They understand it. They're playing the game smart and there's not a big payroll involved. It does. It's not about the money you spend. And he was saying, I mean, you expose the Dodgers. He, Granted, the Dodgers won 100 games. It's not like that it doesn't work to have a big payroll. But the Milwaukee Brewers are saying it doesn't necessarily have to be that way. And if you've got guys that understand the game, they've got the right butts in the right seats. These guys are in these positions. The bullpen knows what they're doing. We've got a good rotation. You've got a number one in there that can throw a no-hitter at any point in time ever. You know, the kid's ridiculous, you know. But build like that. Build like that. And Webb can hang around. Webb can hang. But he doesn't have to be your number one. He doesn't have to. Kane was number one, and then Bumgarner came in there. Timmy was number one, and then Kane took number one, and then Bumgarner came. You don't have to keep him as a number one. He just has to be in the top of your rotation because of who he is. But you can build this situation. And I know you think that Peralta priced himself out. But Diddy, if you're the Giants and you're like, I've got some money here, is this the route we have to take to win right now? Could we build similar situations to the Brewers? And what do we have to do to that? Because I think they're– Tampa is a good blueprint. I don't think it's the Giants' blueprint, but I think Milwaukee, if there is a close enough situation for those guys to build around, that's where you build is that team right there.
00:23:51
Speaker 2: Absolutely. And speaking of Peralta, he is one of Adamas' best friends. Adamas was obviously at his best his last few years in Milwaukee. And, well, Freddie was there. So, man, I don't know. Maybe Freddie will give him a kick in the butt and say, hey, get back to how you were playing at shortstop.
00:24:09
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:24:10
Speaker 1: I agree. Whatever you got to do. I mean, whatever you got to do. I mean, I just think that or have the conversation with Adamas. Hey, man, listen. You see how Milwaukee's playing. You were there when they were building that situation. Be that over here. You know that how they think, you know how they play. This is, this is literally what we're trying to be like you as a leader, bring that, bring the understanding of what they did over there, over here. And let's try to lead from that perspective. Like you, you have a perfect in that way because Milwaukee.
00:24:43
Speaker 2: Start with yourself. Yeah. Correct.
00:24:45
Speaker 1: Correct. And project it, send it out everywhere. And, and, and, and he likes to play every day. So I understand he's leading that way too. I'm not, we're not knocking that. I just, I saw, I just see the preference. I see the prep and spring training. I'm not high on it. I've been there. I'm not, I'm not high on the preparation. I mean, give him, give me a little, give me a little more focus, you know, give me a little bit more like, Hey man, we're going to, we're out here to win this year. We need, we need to do this. And I feel like, I just feel like how Milwaukee's done it. I mean, it scares me a little bit that they swept the Dodgers. I didn't see that coming, but the Dodgers just went so cold. They just went ice cold at the plate. But, but for me, when you sit that long, they should a hundred percent, they're the, they should be the one in the world championship. I truly believe that. I mean, they should win it. They're the best team. They're just sitting for four. And man, when you sit a long time, I've been a part of a team that sat a long time like that with Colorado got swept by the Red Sox. I was on the other side when we hit, when Detroit sat forever, we swept Detroit. So it is going to be a, uh, an interesting scenario. If I'm, if I'm, um, if I'm Milwaukee, I'm pulling for Tampa to go ahead and put this, put this end it now.
00:25:56
Speaker 2: Like it's almost never good unless you're really, really banged up. It's not, it's really not good. Yeah. I wanted to ask you this cause Scott and I, touched on it last week, but, um, I wanted to ask you, are the Dodgers, are they vulnerable now? Do you think like they're getting older? You know, you look at like a key contributor, like Max Muncy, he's actually kind of getting up there. They got, you know, age in the bullpen, some age in the rotation, um, a lot of injury situations. Obviously Otani was not at his best and not available all the time this year.
00:26:29
Speaker 5: Yeah.
00:26:29
Speaker 2: Are they vulnerable?
00:26:31
Speaker 1: Uh, Yes, they still won 100 games. So, I mean, the Giants donated the last three games to them. But, you know, they still won 100 games, you know. They still had that ability and they still got all the way to the CS. So they obviously can win in the playoffs. Are they vulnerable? Yes, because when you play, it is really hard on your body to play as long as they play and do it for as many years in a row. Stuff's going to start going. It's wear and tear. It's going to go. Look at the Phillies. The Phillies went from like, and then boom, everybody got old. Everybody dumped Utley, dump all these guys, get rid of Abanez, moved on. Everybody got old quick because that's what baseball does. Baseball does that because to try to recover and to play at the level that they play at again and again, I mean, hat off to them. That's really hard to do what they've done and not even just World's It's not just the world championship they won. It's the world championship they lost in the playoff. I mean, 12 years in a row. I mean, that's a lot of playoff baseball. And with a lot of the similar same guys on that team. So it's going to take its toll. I don't think Otani, it's a two-way player. This is what happens. There's only been two of them that I'd really know of that's been any good at that level, Babe Ruth and him. But this is what it does. You're pitching on a slope. It's hard on you. You're pounding on your front knee. You're pounding on your hip. Now you're spinning the other way on your body and you're trying to, you know, go the other way. It takes a toll and the guy hits every day and he hits for power. Like it's, there's a lot of torque on his body in Freeman, 16 years in the big leagues. I mean, granted he's a smart hitter. He's baseball IQ is up there, but sometimes you're bad. Everything's going to slow down. So I think that they a hundred percent are exposed. Is that mean they're going to be a bad team?
00:28:24
Speaker 2: No.
00:28:24
Speaker 1: Does that mean they're, they're out next year? You don't have to worry about them. Absolutely not. You have to worry about them. They built that team to win a bunch in a row. They took that risk. They did a great job, but all things come to an end, man. It's just going to happen eventually.
00:28:39
Speaker 2: You play straight through two postseasons all the way through, and then this is a WBC year. They had some guys in the WBC, obviously. It is tough, but A.H. might be catching up with them a little bit. I think they might be potentially, but they're the Dodgers. They'll also just go get a bunch of guys, presumably. Yeah. Who knows what happens with the CBA, some of which is directed directly at the dogs.
00:29:01
Speaker 1: Right at them.
00:29:02
Speaker 2: They have to close the Otani loophole.
00:29:04
Speaker 1: That's insane.
00:29:06
Speaker 2: Paying him $ 2 million this year. That's crazy. But I know you did want to talk about the Tommy John epidemic. And I'm really curious what you think. Losing four young starters, almost exactly the same age. What are your theories about with them. And just in general, I mean, it's the, the, the guys who have broken down rosters, it's sort of about 40% of big league pitchers have had Tommy John surgery.
00:29:35
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:29:36
Speaker 1: Because they don't pitch Susan. They throw it's a, different deal. And people are going to disagree with me on this, but they do. They do not pitch. When I watch them in bullpens, when I watch them, all they care about is their spin rate. They're looking at their spin rate. They're looking at their torque. They throw as hard as they can. They're recoiling. I mean, most of these kids are kicking back afterwards because they're trying to get that spin rate down there. They don't go, hey, man, I'm going to throw here. I'm going to throw here. I'm going to throw this. I'm going to throw that. I mean, I don't see a lot of four-pitch pitchers starting in the rotation right now. That kept me out of the rotation. Like, I could have been a two. If we're going to be a two-pitch, I mean, shoot, I would have been a starter. I had two pitches. I mean, and I only had to go five innings. Heck, yeah. Give me $ 15 million a year. I can do that. I'll grind it out through five. I threw a ton of five innings. Not a ton. But I threw a lot of four- and five-inning shutouts, Susan, when I would start with Kansas City. It didn't work out for me because they needed you to go six, seven innings. And that third time through the order, I got knocked around because I didn't have a third pitch. Or that I worked on a third pitch and I definitely didn't have a fourth pitch. But the starters that I knew back in the day that could pitch a long time had other pitches. And what that did is it limited pitch counts. You weren't max-efforting every pitch. You knew who had to add and subtract. You knew how to manage the inning. 15 pitches or less, 12 pitches or less. All right, man, you want to go– I mean, Rags would talk about it all the time. He'd say, hey, man, you want to get through the seventh. You better figure out a way to get out of this in like eight pitches or less or 10 pitches or less. You don't– get outs. Quit going for strikeouts. Quit throwing as hard as you can. Quit sending balls up over the middle because what happens is when they're throwing 100 over the middle up, they're fouling it off. So it's not that they're hitting you. It's taking you nine pitches, eight pitches, seven pitches to get through a guy. Well, that's a lot on the arm. And then the amount of torque that they're putting on that slider to, or cutter. I mean, the cutter thing is probably causing a lot of it, but the amount of torque you're putting on your elbow right there to throw that pitch with the velocity that you want to throw it at. You're not built for that. You're just, your arms, the arms not built for it. So it, it will continue to happen. Every one of those guys that had Tommy John, I don't know. I might be wrong. there wasn't a lot of curve balls coming out of those guys. You know, the curve ball uses the shoulder, but you also don't have to use it as much. And there are a lot of cutter slider, high below guys, and it's going to start happening. There's nothing, not the giants. It's not David. It's not Gresham. Those guys, those guys are the best in the business. It's just, yeah, it's just everywhere. And it's, it's, but it's young guys because, and they're all been brought up in this era of baseball. It doesn't mean it didn't happen. Smoltz had Tommy, John, like guys like that. But even Smoltz was a high below cutter guy, slider guy, you know, he threw a curve ball, but he, he, this torque on that elbow and you're throwing that cutter and it's putting, I mean, you can, if people do that, you can feel that's the Tommy John muscle. So if you, if you, if you do that, you can feel that thing tighten up and man, and a lot of the, some of these guys are going all slight. It seems like they're all power cutter guys. And then a fastball, you know what I'm saying? Like, so I feel like, When I saw the guys in the spring training start to drop and it kept going, I'm telling you, it's the way they're pitching right now. It's going to keep happening unless they teach them how to pitch. You've got to pitch and get out quick and use different weapons to do it.
00:33:09
Speaker 2: It's interesting because I feel very strongly that it starts at the amateur level. It's just pitching too much. Travel ball, all that. The guys coming up who were young in the 70s and even 80s, that wasn't around. People were playing three different sports. You played baseball during baseball season. You were probably mostly, if you were a really good player, you were probably playing shortstop and then pitching once a week. Something like that. I do believe in there's a certain amount of bullets in there. Pitching is very, I don't have to tell you, very, very bad for your arm. It's just bad for you. There's no way around it. Like no trainer in the world can stop that. But I have a, my own, perhaps completely erroneous theory about the Giants four, because they're all, they're all exact. They're within like sort of a 10 month range. They all would have been coming sort of right out of high school or just going into their first year of college or first year of pro ball in the COVID year. I think the COVID year, Maybe messed up some some, you know, a lot of athletes, but especially pitchers routines. Do I pitch? Do I throw it all? Do I take the year off? Do I save those bullets? Do did guys ramp up too much coming out of it? It just the fact that they're all that same age range and they were just about sort of 18 ish, 19 ish. coming out of COVID, I feel like maybe there was some element there. Look, it's probably a combination of so many different things and we will never, never know exactly why, but I think usage is number one. And then this one, it's just like, well, how is it four that are all just.
00:34:55
Speaker 1: Exactly the same? And I think you'll have sometimes where you're like, God, dude, seriously, everybody had the UCL this year, but the, but the usage is, is, is a big deal. And I know there's been, And any guy that played, most of the guys that you listened to that played in the 90s, early 2000s, maybe mid-2000s, they're all going to say they're playing too much. They're all going to say, listen, I mean, DeRosa had a great comment. He's like, hey, man, how about just go out there and play and have fun, play your games, and at 17, let's see where the cards fall because either you've got it or you don't have it, right? You either have it, you have a situation where you're like, all these kids think they're going to go play D one college baseball or go to the pros. They all do. I live in a town where I swear every kid thinks he's got going to go. And I'm like, no, you're, you understand it. 1% of a 1%. Like, like you're, you're not all going to go. That doesn't mean you're bad. It doesn't mean you're a failure. It's just really hard. And now you've got, they call them POs. I remember when I got here, I was like, Oh, it's a PO. Oh, pitcher only. There's a, there's an actual name for you guys in high school. And I got friends that have their kids. They, they played all positions. They got put as a PO in high school. So they're already only pitching.
00:36:17
Speaker 2: I don't like it.
00:36:18
Speaker 1: And then they give up all their sports. They quit football. They quit basketball to be a pitch. Oh, and they play all year and then they're throwing all year round and then they're working on stuff and they're going to their coaches. And next thing you know, their body hurts their, their shoulders or elbow. It's a lot on their body. And, you never, I, I, I played 16 games in high school, I think. And then you went to the playoffs and then I played maybe 15 or 20 in the summer in Legion ball. That was it. Then I went and played. I didn't have a football team. I went to a small Christian school side of soccer team. I was a goalie just because that was the only position that allowed me to like knock somebody down. They came to my area legally, you know? So I like that, you know? So that's why I played goalie. And then I played basketball because I love basketball. I think it's a great sport. It's a phenomenal thing. But I played all those sports, but I didn't overdo it. I mean, these guys are playing this travel ball 100 games a year, and they're all over the place. You don't need that. You don't need all that. But you're right. And so when you become a pitcher only, which most of these kids in travel ball, that's what they become, putting the torque on them. Yes, they're getting to colleges. Yes, they'll get to a D1 potentially if they throw a velocity. Yes, they'll get to the big leagues, some of them. But the concept for me was never to get to the big leagues. It was to make a career in the big leagues. It wasn't to throw my one year. I didn't want to blow out. I think it's what's happening. I really do. These guys are– they're having Tommy John in high school a lot now too. So it's happening. It's just for me– you got to learn pitch and back off and the limit, like you said, it's usage. Well, then don't throw 15, 20 pitches in any, your body can't handle it. You know? So that's the best thing.
00:38:08
Speaker 2: I like that. That is absolutely my favorite idea. And you've said it in very, a couple for a couple of different reasons. Yeah. Just quick outs, quick, quick outs. It's better for everybody, including your defense. Here's the one thing I want to say, and we've probably gone over time at this point. So I hope people are still listening. Cause this is one thing that I think is important, but, A lot of especially youth coaches and parents don't realize now, I think because Tommy John surgery is so prevalent and it's mostly successful, they think like, oh, it's not that big deal. Tommy John surgery is is a pretty big deal still. Not everybody comes back 100 percent. It's not guaranteed. And. people think like, Oh, there was that idea. Like, like just get it early, get it done, you know, get it out of the way or you'll throw better. You'll throw harder. No, because the last thing you want is the second Tommy John because coming back from a second Tommy John is really difficult. It's really, really difficult.
00:39:05
Speaker 1: Yeah. So is a perfect example of that, man. Except for Tommy John, he just didn't come back the same, you know?
00:39:12
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, you don't, you don't want Tommy John. You want to avoid it throughout your career. But if you have to have it, you want to keep it as late as possible. Because again, you're talking career, not just like I can pitch in college or something like that. If you're really thinking that you've got what it takes to play a major league baseball you got to take care of that arm and that means not putting too much on it and travel ball I think travel ball coaches really really need to start thinking about this and the parents need to make them.
00:39:40
Speaker 1: Think about this yeah and travel needs to be cut down like travel ball fine but you're only getting 20 games I mean Jason LaRue is a travel ball guy here Uh, and he's, he's like that. He's like, no, my kids will not play more than this. This is all we'll play. If you don't like it, go somewhere else. This is what we're going to play. We're going to work fundamentals. I'm going to teach you how to play the game really, really well. They want to compete at a really high level in your, at your age group for this many games. And then we move on. Like, because in the end you either have it or you don't in the end, you either going to be able to do it or you're not. It doesn't matter if you play 150 travel ball games a year, if you're not good enough, you're not good enough. Like it, uh, It's just, it's okay. There's nothing wrong with you. Do something else.
00:40:24
Speaker 2: Play another sport. Have fun. You're a kid. And also the parents, like, let your kids be kids. Travel ball winds up almost being like work. If you're playing baseball year-round, that becomes like work. It's a very few that are like, I love baseball so much when I'm a kid. I want to play every day. I want to get new stuff with their friends. I want to play other sports.
00:40:42
Speaker 1: Yes.
00:40:43
Speaker 2: Let them do that. Yes. Yes.
00:40:45
Speaker 1: And it's a hard toll on the parents. The Stanley Cups... There's not water in them. Okay. They're trying to calm down. So those moms that are doing the Stanley cups, I'm sorry. They're not full of water. You're not fooling anybody. Okay. You're in 15 games on a weekend. The moms are like, good Lord. Like, like, That's that Stanley cup makes it living on that deal. Like don't say.
00:41:09
Speaker 2: So I'm kind of learning something. This actually is very helpful to know.
00:41:13
Speaker 1: If you see a travel ball, walk up to a mom, take and have a sip of your Stanley cup water. Let's see how many people say, sure.
00:41:21
Speaker 2: When you see me with the Stanley cup next spring, Jeremy, you're going to be like, Oh, wait a minute. Exactly. Exactly.
00:41:30
Speaker 3: Exactly.
00:41:31
Speaker 1: Well, awesome. That was great. Well, I think we have a lot more to talk about. I'm actually looking forward to this World Series because you're guaranteed to see three teams that have not won it, if ever, in a really, really long time. And their payrolls are, what, number one smallest, number three smallest, number 19 smallest. So you're going to, this is a good, this is going to probably be one of my, I don't always watch all the World Series games because I get annoyed with it, but this is one that I'll probably watch a lot of. I think it'll be, I think it'll be awesome.
00:42:00
Speaker 2: I'll watch them on replay and the Valkyries go Valkyries.
00:42:02
Speaker 3: Yes.
00:42:03
Speaker 1: Yes. Go Valkyries. Awesome. Awesome. Thank you, Susan, for joining us. Appreciate it. I'm sure we will be talking to you later this week, but enjoy your time over there. Relax, have some fun, make some experiences.
00:42:17
Speaker 3: Awesome.
00:42:19
Speaker 1: We will see you. Thank you for tuning in to splash hit territory. We appreciate you guys. Thank you for listening. Hope you listened all the way because the last one was an important message for everybody. So thank you for hanging out with us. We will see you next time. If you made it this far, you'll love this next episode. Check it out right here. Make sure you've subscribed to Splash Hit Territory on YouTube to catch our Giants coverage multiple times a week.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Splash Hit Territory. I'm Jeremy Affelt. Susan Slusser has joined me. Full transparency, we're doing this for the second time, kind of. So we had some technical difficulties. It's okay. It's part of it. It's part of the deal. But Susan, thank you for joining me. We have a lot of fun stuff to talk about. Obviously, we're going to continue to talk about things every week, and that is Giants baseball, what's happening, who's going, who's staying, who could potentially go, you know, all those different things. So I do want to talk about that because I think that there are a few different, I know you and Scott talked about it a few times, but I do feel like any untouchables should be talked about. Are there any untouchables? Are there guys that we feel, and I know you feel there's only a couple. I definitely feel Eldridge. I think we're on the same page there. Definitely an untouchable for me. Everybody, Devers, He could be a coin flip, but I think he, I personally think he's an untouchable because of his Homer status and his ability to protect Eldridge. And I think Webb has to stay for leadership purposes on the big league roster. I think that other than that, I don't think anybody's untouchable on the big league roster. I know you feel about, excuse me, feel differently a little bit about some of the minor league guys. There are some guys down there because there is going to be teams calling. They know Buster needs guys. And they know what he has in the minor leagues, and they know what he has in the big leagues a little bit. So I'm sure you're hearing some stuff about that.
00:01:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good question. First of all, I really think, honestly, there's probably only one true untouchable, and that's Bryce Eldridge. That, honestly, is maybe not necessarily a good sort of– a thing for the Giants, right? You'd love to have a lot of guys that are great. So you go like, that guy's untouchable, that guy's untouchable. But that's why I think it's Bryce. Maybe Jackson Flora. They love what they're seeing from him. I don't, you know, he's certainly not a guy where if you're getting close on a deal and they say, we want Jackson Flora, probably not. And I'm guessing that out of all of those young shortstops, the guys that are sort of in class A, high A, Gonzalez, Hernandez, Gavin Keelan, Johnny level. I think maybe they've probably identified internally one guy that maybe not untouchable, but like they would probably go like, let's get like maybe one of the other guys. This is the one we kind of want to prioritize hanging on to. That's not necessarily meeting the definition of untouchable, but everyone else is probably on the table. The problem, Jeremy, is What the Giants' needs are, they don't necessarily have to go out and give up one of their best players or one of their best prospects. They need relievers, typically. No offense to you, obviously. Relievers typically aren't guys that require a ton in return. They also need starters. So it depends on who you go after, if you go after a starter. And if you're going after a starter, you're certainly not also going to trade Logan Webb, which I wouldn't do. Anyway, I don't think Logan's untouchable, but I would be extremely, extremely surprised if they traded him. Yeah.
00:03:25
Speaker 1: And when you go after a reliever and you have to give up a few guys, it's usually a team that has this big time guy that they're going in a different direction, right? Or they're like, hey, you're going to take our closer. That's fine because we're actually going in a little different direction. We need to free up some payroll, but we need some big league guys ready in return. We've got to have It doesn't mean it has to be big, big time guys. It's like, well, but can we get a couple of your relievers that were in the big leagues now? Because at least they have had some big league time and we know that we can build off of that. You're not going to have to give up, you know, any top prospects or anything like that. It's just doesn't matter. It doesn't make sense because the injury scenario could be terrible.
00:04:07
Speaker 2: Right.
00:04:07
Speaker 1: So you're not going to do that with relievers. You're just not, but you do have to go after some big relievers. You're going to have to pay on the free agent market. or you're going to have to take on money. Like if you go after, I know you mentioned, you, you mentioned a guy, you mentioned Ryan from the, from the twins, right? You mentioned him.
00:04:24
Speaker 2: Oh yeah. I mean, you know, it's part of the rotation. So then if you're going to spend a little more, give up a little more starter.
00:04:32
Speaker 3: Sure.
00:04:33
Speaker 1: Yes. Yes. And I think you should give up something for a starter.
00:04:37
Speaker 2: I do.
00:04:38
Speaker 1: I don't, I kind of, I, I, I still have a little bit of some, um, I'm sure Sabian does too. Uh, I love Beltran, uh, I played with him in Kansas City. But when we gave up Zach Wheeler for Beltran and then he got hurt and then he left, that's what Buster doesn't want to do is give up a Zach Wheeler type guy. I don't think this Florida guy you want to give up because if he gives up a guy and then he goes somewhere else and wins a Cy Young and then all of a sudden he's like a mainstream number one starter for the next 10 years, that you don't want to do. I don't think you should give up any guys that you think can be in your rotation is a number one, two or three guy in the minor leagues. Anytime soon. I just, I don't think that's a smart play unless you, I mean, I don't see, I think you can give up some infielders. You can give up some, some pitching prospects possibly, but I don't think you give up a guys of guys like that, that early, because that was, that was a, that was a boof right there.
00:05:36
Speaker 2: No, I don't like trading a top pitching prospect. And that one still looks bad. Like that guy is still legit. You know, and that look, think how long ago that was. That guy is still great. Obviously, you know, his, his service time, all of that, he would have been, you know, with club control way over a long time ago, but you still go like, Oh my God, this guy is still so good.
00:05:56
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:05:57
Speaker 2: The guys I mentioned, Jeremy were almost all starters, Spencer Strider possible. Honestly, um, you know, he's coming off an elbow thing and, uh, he had, he's got a team option for 2029, but he's, he's, he's making a pretty penny, but he's, you know, he was one of the better starters in the leagues, uh, for the elbow thing. So I think he's worth maybe a something in a trade, um, read Detmers, you know, the angels, I think the angels are probably right for, for trading some guys out of the rotation, Shane McClanahan. I, you know, I, look, the rays are probably, it's going to be tougher to get to pry anyone away from any of these teams at this point. And, uh, yeah, but Logan Gilbert, the Mariners love to trade. So I don't know, George Kirby or low or Logan Gilbert. I kind of like both of those guys, but let's get back to the bullpen for a second.
00:06:51
Speaker 1: I love hater. I think you should go after a guy like that. I think he'd be an awesome guy to go up because he can pitch great in San Francisco and, He's got power. He knows how to compete. I think a guy like that, because a guy like hater, he's got enough time in the big leagues where I don't have to necessarily give up a lot for him, but I can get, if I'm looking at trying to build for the next two or three years and win for the next two or three years, and I'm trying to take advantage and I'm sure we'll talk about it. I'm trying to take advantage of the Dodgers scenario of like got a little exposed in the playoffs. Padres are competing and, But I still think if you can get a guy like that, you can slam the door on those guys. And you don't have to give up a ton. You might have to take on some payroll. Fine, take on some payroll, but get a guy like that. So that's kind of the guy that I would be hunting and teams willing to give him up.
00:07:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, the Astros have to figure out where they see themselves. Like, they're essentially a 500 team this year, but they did make the playoffs. Do they think they can still win? Do they think that they're, you know, maybe not in that position? I don't know. In that division, you know, maybe you want to hang on to somebody like that. But Zach Manassian has a pre-existing really good relationship with Josh Hader, too. That probably adds a little bonus there.
00:08:09
Speaker 3: Luke Weaver?
00:08:10
Speaker 2: Pirates, also a nice possibility. They're not in a situation where they're probably thinking we're winning now. We need to hang on to this guy. And I know you wanted to talk about blockbusters. I guess maybe we should do that after we have a quick break. But the next guy I'd thrown out there would definitely probably have to be a blockbuster. I'm still getting heat for it, too. You know who I'm talking about, everybody. Yeah.
00:08:33
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:08:36
Speaker 2: Maybe a quick word from a sponsor before we go on. Anything controversial. Will that keep everybody paying attention back?
00:08:45
Speaker 1: AJ, in this post.
00:08:48
Speaker 2: This one.
00:08:53
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00:09:14
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00:09:27
Speaker 3: That's right. Red dot, bad deal, they think. Green dot, great deal. But you get to choose. That's the one great thing about SeatGeek. And of course... We have a code. Kratz and I have a code for you.
00:09:37
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00:09:51
Speaker 3: Can use it later.
00:09:54
Speaker 1: All right, SeatGeek. Awesome. Awesome. Using SeatGeek over there for your concerts? Susan?
00:10:01
Speaker 2: No, I've got those all planned out in advance, but I was just thinking if I was back in the Bay Area, 100% would be hitting SeatGeek for Valkyries tickets. Absolutely. That's that. I mean, they're always the hot ticket, but right now, are you kidding me? We could devote a whole show as far as I'm concerned to the Valkyries. Man, they're fun. That's such a good story.
00:10:21
Speaker 1: That's awesome. That's awesome. Well, you think blockbuster deal. You think, what move are you thinking? If you're in Buster's brain right now, what are you wanting?
00:10:34
Speaker 2: Well, people are regular listeners or read the Chronicle. Look, it was kind of throwaway because I don't think it will happen. But if I'm Buster... knowing the Giants' needs. And I know A.J. Preller loves a trade. I am going so hard after Mason Miller. Now, okay, maybe that does take Bryce Eldridge. And no, I would not trade Bryce Eldridge probably for Mason Miller. But I'd trade one or two of those young shortstops. I'd trade some good young arms. I'd be pretty willing to listen to just about anybody. He comes with some red flags. He had a UCL sprain injury. uh i think 23 that he rehabbed and you know what he throws 100 plus yeah you know could be a little bit of something to be a concern or whatever uh which preller knows which the giants know everybody or what is aware of that so i don't know if that factors at all um you do have to be careful though about not maybe selling the whole farm for a guy who's potentially an injury risk but yeah That is the spot where they need a no-brainer guy, and there's nobody better than Mason Miller, also a great dude.
00:11:41
Speaker 1: But do you think the Padres get to the playoffs without him? If you're the new ownership, and you're the new ownership, and I've got to get back to the playoffs, and these guys are chomping at the bit, and they're going to dump some money, I think the new ownership is going to dump some money. So I think the Padres are going to be they're going to be contenders for a little bit. And I just don't know if you can get recover that. I don't know if you can hit, you have a guy that can back that up. So would you be willing to risk that?
00:12:13
Speaker 2: Well, that's, you know, you obviously, you also have a guy there who you could give a qualifying offer to save a little money in more a home. He's a guy I've thrown out there as probably the top.
00:12:25
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
00:12:27
Speaker 2: He could close for me. They probably feel the same way. You could give him a qualifying offer, maybe look to extend him, something like that. And maybe go, you know, also then get a haul from another team if you want to trade Mason Miller. But look, OK, again.
00:12:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. You're tossing it up there. It's a long shot. But I get it. I get it. But what about a David Bednar?
00:12:52
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:12:52
Speaker 1: I mean, 35 saves in 2026. I mean, you know, he's a proven closer. He went out and did his job. He does it. He's done. He does it well. And he's a guy that's going to come in and he has no intimidation. A guy like that guy is not going to look at anybody that he's facing at any time and be like, I don't know if I can get it done. You know, I just want guys with good mentalities is what I'm saying. You know, I need a guy, not just stuff. I need you to have that just that go out there with that tenacity and a little bit of craziness, a little bit of weirdness to go out there and say, I'm just going to get it done.
00:13:26
Speaker 2: And he's been through it, you know, from the Pittsburgh area. I mean, Will Bednar, I think most Giants fans know Will Bednar is in the Giants system. They're from that area. And he had a rough season with Pittsburgh a couple years ago, two or three years ago, and really, you know, lost the closer spot. That's rough. He goes through that. And then with the Yankees, of all teams, you know, really flourishes again and turns back into a really good closer. So certainly worth going after. But if we're talking blockbuster trades at all, the one guy I think that is still potentially a blockbuster, and it was a blockbuster when Buster got him, it's so hard to say blockbuster Buster, is Devers, simply because of the power. And he showed yet again that by the end of every season, he's going to be right around sort of approaching that 40 homer mark. He looks now very good at first base. You know, there's some glitches here and there, but the Giants do have Eldridge. That's one where they could go, hey, is somebody willing to take on probably most, maybe not all of this contract and give us something, give us a starter, give us a really good young reliever with some service time? You'd have to think that they would consider that given the fact that, you know, basically as much as anything, they've got Bryce who can play first base every day.
00:14:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just really worry about if Chapman was healthy and if I saw a healthy Chapman playing, if I saw a healthy Adamas, if I felt like those guys were going to– I have not seen them in the last couple years really write the story for me where it's like I can give up a Devers because I feel like if you give up Devers, you're giving up a lot of RBIs and a lot of power and a few months. Not every month. Cause I know he's a slow starter, but he's a few months where he will literally carry you and he will be a damage deficit for another team of where he's going to punch a three hole in you. And it's going to be like, dang, we just gave up three. I don't know if I'm willing to take that risk right now because I don't trust the Chapman dominance deal. If I trusted that a little bit more, maybe I just don't know if I can give up as hard. It is, is it is for that? And they, and they scored more. They did fine on the offense this year. No one's, bagging the offensive production I they shouldn't I don't think they should I think their defense and I think their pitching was good you know was struggling but especially late in the game I just don't know if I'm willing to give up Devers at this moment if I don't feel like Chapman and Damas can can cover me on that.
00:16:02
Speaker 2: So yeah it's fair um and here's another thing to consider I probably mentioned this before but Devers falls in the category of um when I was covering the A's and they acquired Yohannes Cespedes. I remember Billy being saying, this is the kind of guy we cannot get to come to Oakland. And then was crazy and traded him coming, you know, the team was in first place and it hurt them. Don't, don't get rid of those guys. We can't get these guys in our town. Buster said something similar about Devers when they, he made the Devers trade. This is the guy that we've been kind of trying to look for. We can't sign him.
00:16:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, You can't sign them in that ballpark, in that situation. This is why you've lost out on every, not necessarily the reason why, but one of the factors that you lost out on Judge, you lost out on Otani, was because those guys were, one, you got to prove to me you're going to win. I'm not guaranteed that proof. And two, that ballpark is not always easy to hit in. So you can't just get those guys. I will promise you Devers hits the free agent market We go after Devers. He's not going to be like, yeah, sign me up. Like I know their options, you know, he's not going to do it, you know? So, so that's where you have to trade for those guys. And that's why I don't think you should give up that situation because I keep that. At least I keep that chess piece on the board. I think I've got to try to figure out ways to build an off a pitching staff. I think you're right. I think you go after two. I think you got to go after two starters. Pitching is not that hard to sign there because people love to pitch in the ballpark. So go after that situation, you know, guys that, you know, want to, it's San Francisco is like the reverse of Colorado. Every hitter in the freaking world would be a fight to the bat rack to sign there. If they thought they could win there, they would a hundred percent go there. And then it's the opposite. It's, you know, you're going to get starting pitching, but starting pitching, even if you have starting pitching and relievers, if you're going to do a free agent deal, you've got to convince them. I think the giants have a little bit more invincibility because they show where they have offense and, It's the defense that I'm concerned about. And if I was a starter sitting with Buster, I'd be like, hold on a second. So you want to, you want me to come in there and I don't have an idea of Adamas is going to be playing or not playing. I don't know if Chapman's there. You had guys that could play chat. Now they made some, we had some pretty good guys playing third basis here, but the shortstop situation for me would be a little nerve wracking. And, and this, I remember Adamas put up 20 plus homers. So the guys has power, you know, like, and it's like, I just feel like as a starter, you've got to convince me that we're going to win there. And I think he can, but you're going to convince me more if you say, well, if I walk out of there with a two one ball game or a five to two or five to three lead that the guy you're bringing in behind me is going to seal the deal. And if you can't convince me of that, I'm signing for a bunch of no decisions in, in, in, in losing, you know? So I think that, I think it starts, for me, it's going to start with the bullpen, and then you work your way to the starter. I really do. I think you've got to make some deals for some bullpen guys.
00:19:16
Speaker 2: I think, first of all, we've talked about this before. Adamas, if he starts off next year the way he played this year defensively, they're going to have to consider moving him to second. Tough to do during the season. Do we maybe broach it in the spring? Have him work at it both? I don't know if somebody with his veteran status and on that kind of a contract, if you do, or if you just go like, hope he's better defensively. That's not supposed to be a good strategy. Hope it was the back. He he needs to reestablish himself as a good defensive player. He was last year. So yeah, that's very important. They do have Marcelo Meyer. Who's a very good short stub. He could play there. You know, you could always have Casey Schmidt there. He's pretty good at shorts. Third's his best spot. I mean, they do have, they do have options there, but I know you really wanted to talk a little bit about the post season. Yeah. And some of the blueprints that, you know, you look at the Brewers, you look at the Rays, and they are doing it with defense. They're doing it with things we know Buster loves. Contact hitting, defense, great pitching. Although I think Freddy Peralta is now taking himself out of the price range where I was thinking he can get Freddy Peralta.
00:20:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
00:20:32
Speaker 2: So he's been great. Really good to see. But yeah, these are the blueprints when you play in that kind of ballpark, like Oracle. Do these things. Now, the Rays take it almost to an extreme. Maybe mix in some more homers than that. But I have said so many times how much I love the Brewers and how the Brewers play. Zach Manassian does too.
00:20:59
Speaker 3: Of course.
00:20:59
Speaker 1: It came from there.
00:21:01
Speaker 2: They kind of already are the blueprint. The Giants are taking baby steps that way. But some of the guys we saw in the second half, some of the guys we saw maybe in the last month, are the kind of guys who could maybe play like that, particularly when it comes to things like, you know, obviously the running game. But the defense, the contact hitting, the pitching. Yep.
00:21:20
Speaker 1: Yes, do that. And that is the, I think the Brewers are a perfect example of how you play the game of baseball. Like in how they're doing it. It's good pitching. slam the door when you need to make some great plays, timely hitting power ball. When you have to power it, these guys have all now that doesn't mean they're going to do it next year. I don't know, but it's two years in a row. So two years in a row. Now you put up some pretty good wins. They're used to winning quite a bit and they're not, they don't have a payroll. It's not top. It's like what? 19th in the league right now. Like, like they don't have a crazy payroll, but they're showing. And it was funny. Like, I don't always agree with Alex Rodriguez is, thoughts on baseball a lot of times, but he did make a good thought process the other day when he was like, it's, it's perfect how you're doing it. You got timely hitting, you got great pitching, you got athleticism, you got guys that have good baseball IQ. They understand when they're supposed to go and not supposed to go. They get it. They understand it. They're playing the game smart and there's not a big payroll involved. It does. It's not about the money you spend. And he was saying, I mean, you expose the Dodgers. He, Granted, the Dodgers won 100 games. It's not like that it doesn't work to have a big payroll. But the Milwaukee Brewers are saying it doesn't necessarily have to be that way. And if you've got guys that understand the game, they've got the right butts in the right seats. These guys are in these positions. The bullpen knows what they're doing. We've got a good rotation. You've got a number one in there that can throw a no-hitter at any point in time ever. You know, the kid's ridiculous, you know. But build like that. Build like that. And Webb can hang around. Webb can hang. But he doesn't have to be your number one. He doesn't have to. Kane was number one, and then Bumgarner came in there. Timmy was number one, and then Kane took number one, and then Bumgarner came. You don't have to keep him as a number one. He just has to be in the top of your rotation because of who he is. But you can build this situation. And I know you think that Peralta priced himself out. But Diddy, if you're the Giants and you're like, I've got some money here, is this the route we have to take to win right now? Could we build similar situations to the Brewers? And what do we have to do to that? Because I think they're– Tampa is a good blueprint. I don't think it's the Giants' blueprint, but I think Milwaukee, if there is a close enough situation for those guys to build around, that's where you build is that team right there.
00:23:51
Speaker 2: Absolutely. And speaking of Peralta, he is one of Adamas' best friends. Adamas was obviously at his best his last few years in Milwaukee. And, well, Freddie was there. So, man, I don't know. Maybe Freddie will give him a kick in the butt and say, hey, get back to how you were playing at shortstop.
00:24:09
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:24:10
Speaker 1: I agree. Whatever you got to do. I mean, whatever you got to do. I mean, I just think that or have the conversation with Adamas. Hey, man, listen. You see how Milwaukee's playing. You were there when they were building that situation. Be that over here. You know that how they think, you know how they play. This is, this is literally what we're trying to be like you as a leader, bring that, bring the understanding of what they did over there, over here. And let's try to lead from that perspective. Like you, you have a perfect in that way because Milwaukee.
00:24:43
Speaker 2: Start with yourself. Yeah. Correct.
00:24:45
Speaker 1: Correct. And project it, send it out everywhere. And, and, and, and he likes to play every day. So I understand he's leading that way too. I'm not, we're not knocking that. I just, I saw, I just see the preference. I see the prep and spring training. I'm not high on it. I've been there. I'm not, I'm not high on the preparation. I mean, give him, give me a little, give me a little more focus, you know, give me a little bit more like, Hey man, we're going to, we're out here to win this year. We need, we need to do this. And I feel like, I just feel like how Milwaukee's done it. I mean, it scares me a little bit that they swept the Dodgers. I didn't see that coming, but the Dodgers just went so cold. They just went ice cold at the plate. But, but for me, when you sit that long, they should a hundred percent, they're the, they should be the one in the world championship. I truly believe that. I mean, they should win it. They're the best team. They're just sitting for four. And man, when you sit a long time, I've been a part of a team that sat a long time like that with Colorado got swept by the Red Sox. I was on the other side when we hit, when Detroit sat forever, we swept Detroit. So it is going to be a, uh, an interesting scenario. If I'm, if I'm, um, if I'm Milwaukee, I'm pulling for Tampa to go ahead and put this, put this end it now.
00:25:56
Speaker 2: Like it's almost never good unless you're really, really banged up. It's not, it's really not good. Yeah. I wanted to ask you this cause Scott and I, touched on it last week, but, um, I wanted to ask you, are the Dodgers, are they vulnerable now? Do you think like they're getting older? You know, you look at like a key contributor, like Max Muncy, he's actually kind of getting up there. They got, you know, age in the bullpen, some age in the rotation, um, a lot of injury situations. Obviously Otani was not at his best and not available all the time this year.
00:26:29
Speaker 5: Yeah.
00:26:29
Speaker 2: Are they vulnerable?
00:26:31
Speaker 1: Uh, Yes, they still won 100 games. So, I mean, the Giants donated the last three games to them. But, you know, they still won 100 games, you know. They still had that ability and they still got all the way to the CS. So they obviously can win in the playoffs. Are they vulnerable? Yes, because when you play, it is really hard on your body to play as long as they play and do it for as many years in a row. Stuff's going to start going. It's wear and tear. It's going to go. Look at the Phillies. The Phillies went from like, and then boom, everybody got old. Everybody dumped Utley, dump all these guys, get rid of Abanez, moved on. Everybody got old quick because that's what baseball does. Baseball does that because to try to recover and to play at the level that they play at again and again, I mean, hat off to them. That's really hard to do what they've done and not even just World's It's not just the world championship they won. It's the world championship they lost in the playoff. I mean, 12 years in a row. I mean, that's a lot of playoff baseball. And with a lot of the similar same guys on that team. So it's going to take its toll. I don't think Otani, it's a two-way player. This is what happens. There's only been two of them that I'd really know of that's been any good at that level, Babe Ruth and him. But this is what it does. You're pitching on a slope. It's hard on you. You're pounding on your front knee. You're pounding on your hip. Now you're spinning the other way on your body and you're trying to, you know, go the other way. It takes a toll and the guy hits every day and he hits for power. Like it's, there's a lot of torque on his body in Freeman, 16 years in the big leagues. I mean, granted he's a smart hitter. He's baseball IQ is up there, but sometimes you're bad. Everything's going to slow down. So I think that they a hundred percent are exposed. Is that mean they're going to be a bad team?
00:28:24
Speaker 2: No.
00:28:24
Speaker 1: Does that mean they're, they're out next year? You don't have to worry about them. Absolutely not. You have to worry about them. They built that team to win a bunch in a row. They took that risk. They did a great job, but all things come to an end, man. It's just going to happen eventually.
00:28:39
Speaker 2: You play straight through two postseasons all the way through, and then this is a WBC year. They had some guys in the WBC, obviously. It is tough, but A.H. might be catching up with them a little bit. I think they might be potentially, but they're the Dodgers. They'll also just go get a bunch of guys, presumably. Yeah. Who knows what happens with the CBA, some of which is directed directly at the dogs.
00:29:01
Speaker 1: Right at them.
00:29:02
Speaker 2: They have to close the Otani loophole.
00:29:04
Speaker 1: That's insane.
00:29:06
Speaker 2: Paying him $ 2 million this year. That's crazy. But I know you did want to talk about the Tommy John epidemic. And I'm really curious what you think. Losing four young starters, almost exactly the same age. What are your theories about with them. And just in general, I mean, it's the, the, the guys who have broken down rosters, it's sort of about 40% of big league pitchers have had Tommy John surgery.
00:29:35
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:29:36
Speaker 1: Because they don't pitch Susan. They throw it's a, different deal. And people are going to disagree with me on this, but they do. They do not pitch. When I watch them in bullpens, when I watch them, all they care about is their spin rate. They're looking at their spin rate. They're looking at their torque. They throw as hard as they can. They're recoiling. I mean, most of these kids are kicking back afterwards because they're trying to get that spin rate down there. They don't go, hey, man, I'm going to throw here. I'm going to throw here. I'm going to throw this. I'm going to throw that. I mean, I don't see a lot of four-pitch pitchers starting in the rotation right now. That kept me out of the rotation. Like, I could have been a two. If we're going to be a two-pitch, I mean, shoot, I would have been a starter. I had two pitches. I mean, and I only had to go five innings. Heck, yeah. Give me $ 15 million a year. I can do that. I'll grind it out through five. I threw a ton of five innings. Not a ton. But I threw a lot of four- and five-inning shutouts, Susan, when I would start with Kansas City. It didn't work out for me because they needed you to go six, seven innings. And that third time through the order, I got knocked around because I didn't have a third pitch. Or that I worked on a third pitch and I definitely didn't have a fourth pitch. But the starters that I knew back in the day that could pitch a long time had other pitches. And what that did is it limited pitch counts. You weren't max-efforting every pitch. You knew who had to add and subtract. You knew how to manage the inning. 15 pitches or less, 12 pitches or less. All right, man, you want to go– I mean, Rags would talk about it all the time. He'd say, hey, man, you want to get through the seventh. You better figure out a way to get out of this in like eight pitches or less or 10 pitches or less. You don't– get outs. Quit going for strikeouts. Quit throwing as hard as you can. Quit sending balls up over the middle because what happens is when they're throwing 100 over the middle up, they're fouling it off. So it's not that they're hitting you. It's taking you nine pitches, eight pitches, seven pitches to get through a guy. Well, that's a lot on the arm. And then the amount of torque that they're putting on that slider to, or cutter. I mean, the cutter thing is probably causing a lot of it, but the amount of torque you're putting on your elbow right there to throw that pitch with the velocity that you want to throw it at. You're not built for that. You're just, your arms, the arms not built for it. So it, it will continue to happen. Every one of those guys that had Tommy John, I don't know. I might be wrong. there wasn't a lot of curve balls coming out of those guys. You know, the curve ball uses the shoulder, but you also don't have to use it as much. And there are a lot of cutter slider, high below guys, and it's going to start happening. There's nothing, not the giants. It's not David. It's not Gresham. Those guys, those guys are the best in the business. It's just, yeah, it's just everywhere. And it's, it's, but it's young guys because, and they're all been brought up in this era of baseball. It doesn't mean it didn't happen. Smoltz had Tommy, John, like guys like that. But even Smoltz was a high below cutter guy, slider guy, you know, he threw a curve ball, but he, he, this torque on that elbow and you're throwing that cutter and it's putting, I mean, you can, if people do that, you can feel that's the Tommy John muscle. So if you, if you, if you do that, you can feel that thing tighten up and man, and a lot of the, some of these guys are going all slight. It seems like they're all power cutter guys. And then a fastball, you know what I'm saying? Like, so I feel like, When I saw the guys in the spring training start to drop and it kept going, I'm telling you, it's the way they're pitching right now. It's going to keep happening unless they teach them how to pitch. You've got to pitch and get out quick and use different weapons to do it.
00:33:09
Speaker 2: It's interesting because I feel very strongly that it starts at the amateur level. It's just pitching too much. Travel ball, all that. The guys coming up who were young in the 70s and even 80s, that wasn't around. People were playing three different sports. You played baseball during baseball season. You were probably mostly, if you were a really good player, you were probably playing shortstop and then pitching once a week. Something like that. I do believe in there's a certain amount of bullets in there. Pitching is very, I don't have to tell you, very, very bad for your arm. It's just bad for you. There's no way around it. Like no trainer in the world can stop that. But I have a, my own, perhaps completely erroneous theory about the Giants four, because they're all, they're all exact. They're within like sort of a 10 month range. They all would have been coming sort of right out of high school or just going into their first year of college or first year of pro ball in the COVID year. I think the COVID year, Maybe messed up some some, you know, a lot of athletes, but especially pitchers routines. Do I pitch? Do I throw it all? Do I take the year off? Do I save those bullets? Do did guys ramp up too much coming out of it? It just the fact that they're all that same age range and they were just about sort of 18 ish, 19 ish. coming out of COVID, I feel like maybe there was some element there. Look, it's probably a combination of so many different things and we will never, never know exactly why, but I think usage is number one. And then this one, it's just like, well, how is it four that are all just.
00:34:55
Speaker 1: Exactly the same? And I think you'll have sometimes where you're like, God, dude, seriously, everybody had the UCL this year, but the, but the usage is, is, is a big deal. And I know there's been, And any guy that played, most of the guys that you listened to that played in the 90s, early 2000s, maybe mid-2000s, they're all going to say they're playing too much. They're all going to say, listen, I mean, DeRosa had a great comment. He's like, hey, man, how about just go out there and play and have fun, play your games, and at 17, let's see where the cards fall because either you've got it or you don't have it, right? You either have it, you have a situation where you're like, all these kids think they're going to go play D one college baseball or go to the pros. They all do. I live in a town where I swear every kid thinks he's got going to go. And I'm like, no, you're, you understand it. 1% of a 1%. Like, like you're, you're not all going to go. That doesn't mean you're bad. It doesn't mean you're a failure. It's just really hard. And now you've got, they call them POs. I remember when I got here, I was like, Oh, it's a PO. Oh, pitcher only. There's a, there's an actual name for you guys in high school. And I got friends that have their kids. They, they played all positions. They got put as a PO in high school. So they're already only pitching.
00:36:17
Speaker 2: I don't like it.
00:36:18
Speaker 1: And then they give up all their sports. They quit football. They quit basketball to be a pitch. Oh, and they play all year and then they're throwing all year round and then they're working on stuff and they're going to their coaches. And next thing you know, their body hurts their, their shoulders or elbow. It's a lot on their body. And, you never, I, I, I played 16 games in high school, I think. And then you went to the playoffs and then I played maybe 15 or 20 in the summer in Legion ball. That was it. Then I went and played. I didn't have a football team. I went to a small Christian school side of soccer team. I was a goalie just because that was the only position that allowed me to like knock somebody down. They came to my area legally, you know? So I like that, you know? So that's why I played goalie. And then I played basketball because I love basketball. I think it's a great sport. It's a phenomenal thing. But I played all those sports, but I didn't overdo it. I mean, these guys are playing this travel ball 100 games a year, and they're all over the place. You don't need that. You don't need all that. But you're right. And so when you become a pitcher only, which most of these kids in travel ball, that's what they become, putting the torque on them. Yes, they're getting to colleges. Yes, they'll get to a D1 potentially if they throw a velocity. Yes, they'll get to the big leagues, some of them. But the concept for me was never to get to the big leagues. It was to make a career in the big leagues. It wasn't to throw my one year. I didn't want to blow out. I think it's what's happening. I really do. These guys are– they're having Tommy John in high school a lot now too. So it's happening. It's just for me– you got to learn pitch and back off and the limit, like you said, it's usage. Well, then don't throw 15, 20 pitches in any, your body can't handle it. You know? So that's the best thing.
00:38:08
Speaker 2: I like that. That is absolutely my favorite idea. And you've said it in very, a couple for a couple of different reasons. Yeah. Just quick outs, quick, quick outs. It's better for everybody, including your defense. Here's the one thing I want to say, and we've probably gone over time at this point. So I hope people are still listening. Cause this is one thing that I think is important, but, A lot of especially youth coaches and parents don't realize now, I think because Tommy John surgery is so prevalent and it's mostly successful, they think like, oh, it's not that big deal. Tommy John surgery is is a pretty big deal still. Not everybody comes back 100 percent. It's not guaranteed. And. people think like, Oh, there was that idea. Like, like just get it early, get it done, you know, get it out of the way or you'll throw better. You'll throw harder. No, because the last thing you want is the second Tommy John because coming back from a second Tommy John is really difficult. It's really, really difficult.
00:39:05
Speaker 1: Yeah. So is a perfect example of that, man. Except for Tommy John, he just didn't come back the same, you know?
00:39:12
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, you don't, you don't want Tommy John. You want to avoid it throughout your career. But if you have to have it, you want to keep it as late as possible. Because again, you're talking career, not just like I can pitch in college or something like that. If you're really thinking that you've got what it takes to play a major league baseball you got to take care of that arm and that means not putting too much on it and travel ball I think travel ball coaches really really need to start thinking about this and the parents need to make them.
00:39:40
Speaker 1: Think about this yeah and travel needs to be cut down like travel ball fine but you're only getting 20 games I mean Jason LaRue is a travel ball guy here Uh, and he's, he's like that. He's like, no, my kids will not play more than this. This is all we'll play. If you don't like it, go somewhere else. This is what we're going to play. We're going to work fundamentals. I'm going to teach you how to play the game really, really well. They want to compete at a really high level in your, at your age group for this many games. And then we move on. Like, because in the end you either have it or you don't in the end, you either going to be able to do it or you're not. It doesn't matter if you play 150 travel ball games a year, if you're not good enough, you're not good enough. Like it, uh, It's just, it's okay. There's nothing wrong with you. Do something else.
00:40:24
Speaker 2: Play another sport. Have fun. You're a kid. And also the parents, like, let your kids be kids. Travel ball winds up almost being like work. If you're playing baseball year-round, that becomes like work. It's a very few that are like, I love baseball so much when I'm a kid. I want to play every day. I want to get new stuff with their friends. I want to play other sports.
00:40:42
Speaker 1: Yes.
00:40:43
Speaker 2: Let them do that. Yes. Yes.
00:40:45
Speaker 1: And it's a hard toll on the parents. The Stanley Cups... There's not water in them. Okay. They're trying to calm down. So those moms that are doing the Stanley cups, I'm sorry. They're not full of water. You're not fooling anybody. Okay. You're in 15 games on a weekend. The moms are like, good Lord. Like, like, That's that Stanley cup makes it living on that deal. Like don't say.
00:41:09
Speaker 2: So I'm kind of learning something. This actually is very helpful to know.
00:41:13
Speaker 1: If you see a travel ball, walk up to a mom, take and have a sip of your Stanley cup water. Let's see how many people say, sure.
00:41:21
Speaker 2: When you see me with the Stanley cup next spring, Jeremy, you're going to be like, Oh, wait a minute. Exactly. Exactly.
00:41:30
Speaker 3: Exactly.
00:41:31
Speaker 1: Well, awesome. That was great. Well, I think we have a lot more to talk about. I'm actually looking forward to this World Series because you're guaranteed to see three teams that have not won it, if ever, in a really, really long time. And their payrolls are, what, number one smallest, number three smallest, number 19 smallest. So you're going to, this is a good, this is going to probably be one of my, I don't always watch all the World Series games because I get annoyed with it, but this is one that I'll probably watch a lot of. I think it'll be, I think it'll be awesome.
00:42:00
Speaker 2: I'll watch them on replay and the Valkyries go Valkyries.
00:42:02
Speaker 3: Yes.
00:42:03
Speaker 1: Yes. Go Valkyries. Awesome. Awesome. Thank you, Susan, for joining us. Appreciate it. I'm sure we will be talking to you later this week, but enjoy your time over there. Relax, have some fun, make some experiences.
00:42:17
Speaker 3: Awesome.
00:42:19
Speaker 1: We will see you. Thank you for tuning in to splash hit territory. We appreciate you guys. Thank you for listening. Hope you listened all the way because the last one was an important message for everybody. So thank you for hanging out with us. We will see you next time. If you made it this far, you'll love this next episode. Check it out right here. Make sure you've subscribed to Splash Hit Territory on YouTube to catch our Giants coverage multiple times a week.
