Why Free Support Isn’t Enough with Sober Coach Heather Lowe

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Welcome to Sober Vibes, your podcast for alcohol-free lifestyle tips and real talk about long-term sobriety.
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I'm your host, Courtney Anderson, sober coach, author, and mom.
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Each week I share strategies, stories, and encouragement to help you navigate cravings, build confidence, and thrive in sobriety.
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Whether you're sober curious or years in, this is your space to feel supported and inspired.
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Hey, welcome back to an episode of the Sober Vives Podcast.
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This is episode 247, and I have a great guest on today, Heather Lowe.
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She is a recovery coach, a business coach, a speaker, a podcast host, founder of Ditch the Drink.
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Welcome, welcome.
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I'm glad to have this conversation with you today.
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Me too, Courtney.
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It's like finally, I feel like we've known each other forever.
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And we haven't done a podcast yet, but we've been, we've been gearing up for this for a long time.
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We have, we have.
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All right, Heather, in your own words, explain besides what I've just explained, but explain who you are, explain your backstory on how you got sober as well.
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Okay, let's see if I can wrap this up quickly.
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I'm a party girl from Wisconsin, born and raised with a beer bottle in my hand, basically.
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My dad was a bartender.
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My parents met in a beer tent.
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So I followed suit.
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It was just par for the course.
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I met my husband in a bar in college.
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I got a degree in social work.
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I continued to drink.
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We moved to Chicago from Wisconsin to Chicago together.
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And I had my babies.
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I didn't drink during pregnancy, but I had two girls and I switched from beer to wine on maternity leave, feeling really European to have a little bit of bubbly in the afternoon.
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When my youngest went to kindergarten, I took a big job downtown.
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I had been working part-time and my husband had been traveling a lot, and I was a little bit bored, a little bit lonely.
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We all know the dinner time, bathtime, bedtime routine with little ones home alone.
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I was missing my party girl lifestyle.
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So also working part-time and part-time from home.
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I had I had been slowly moving up in my career, but I had big dreams of what I wanted to do.
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And I kind of put that on hold when my littles were babies.
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And so when my youngest went to kindergarten, I took a big job downtown, full-time, long hours, a team of people reporting to me in sales.
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I had switched from social work to HR and then sales in my career.
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And my dad died during the interview process.
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And I thought by not taking that job, I would be using that as an excuse.
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So I took the job.
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My first week on the job, I broke my leg and by slipping and falling on the ice in wintertime in Chicago.
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This job had no remote options or flexibility.
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So I was hobbling with a broken leg and a broken heart that my dad had just died to this new job, which kind of like tipped off a comedy of more errors.
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I had two other friends that were my age that passed away without warning and out of order.
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And I ended up doing three eulogies in three years for my friends and my dad.
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And I wanted to perform.
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I wanted to do a really good job performing, and I did.
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And when the services were over, I told myself to get over it.
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And so drinking, my drinking sort of changed at that point to self-medication for my grief.
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I was putting the kids to bed and saying goodnight to my husband and staying up on the couch and drinking alone.
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And over time, this escalated, my tolerance grew, all the things we know about alcohol till at the end, I really didn't recognize myself in the mirror anymore.
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I quit that job and got another.
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I quit that job and got another.
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I quit that job and got another.
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So I wasn't feeling aligned at work.
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I was feeling really disconnected in my marriage.
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I wasn't showing up as the kind of parent I want to be.
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I was so bloated I didn't recognize myself in the mirror, depression, anxiety, grief, all this stuff.
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So in a panic, I called my EAP program and talked, asked for a therapist with substance use training.
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And I went in and I told her I thought I was drinking too much.
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And she told me, no, I wasn't.
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I didn't have a drinking problem.
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I had an anxiety problem.
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And I could just take these meds.
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And I think she was thinking about a harm reduction model because if I didn't want my kids to see me, she suggested that I drink where they couldn't see me, which was in a bonus room that I have off my my primary bedroom, which is a closet.
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It's a bonus room above the garage, which is my closet.
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So she suggested that I drink my wine in the closet.
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Don't let the kids see.
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Take these meds, everything will be fine.
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I was delighted.
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I called everybody I knew and said, no worries.
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The professional told me no drinking problem, just anxiety.
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I'll take these meds and everything will be fine.
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Well, what happened was the meds and the drinking definitely did not mix, right?
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And I became a walking blackout on a few occasions.
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And so, including in front of my friends and my family.
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And so that was embarrassing.
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And I couldn't predict now how much I would drink and what the effect would be.
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Like I kind of could before I was on the meds.
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And so I started a series of sober experiments, taking breaks from alcohol.
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Um, I did a hundred-day challenge, I made it to 70 days.
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I was cured, so I thought I went back to drinking.
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And I continued to do these with the goal of keeping alcohol in my life, of course, of having just alcohol stay in my life but not be such a problem for me.
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After three years of doing that, I was still miserable.
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But I had to admit, when my head hit the pillow sober at night, I felt much better.
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And I was starting to develop this relationship with myself when I wasn't drinking.
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And so on February 20th of 2018, I set the drink down for good.
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It's kind of ironic.
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I was out to dinner with my husband and I left, I did something I'd never done before.
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I left my glass of wine on the table half full.
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And I feel like that's a huge metaphor for my life that I left my life half full.
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So I'm sure there was danger look lurking around the corner for me that I will never know.
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A diagnosis, a tragedy, a fall down the stairs, something.
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I I never got there.
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I don't know.
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I'm sure it was coming, but I I did quit drinking and day by day I learned how to cope with my grief and I learned how to manage my anxiety.
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I got off those meds, I got off alcohol, and I created this holistic healing life for myself.
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And when I was one year sober, I was like, I have to tell the others.
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I have to tell the other women there's other ways to do this.
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Because for me at the time, I thought the options were rehab or AA, and I was terrified of both of them.
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Knowing what I know now, I think those would have been great options for me.
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But at the time it scared me and I didn't want to do it, and I was afraid of the stigma, the stigma, the shame, all this the labels.
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I was afraid of all of it.
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So I created this other way.
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Also, my last day one, I was willing to throw the kitchen sink at it.
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I was like, I'll go to AA, I'll go to re I'll do whatever I have to do.
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And it turns out I didn't utilize those resources, but I did create this plan in place.
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So then I got certified as a life and recovery coach and started to coach others.
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Also, because I was in between jobs, I started ditch the drink and I started with a digital course before I was certified to say, and I said to my husband, I think I got to do this.
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And he said, like, can you make this much money at that?
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Meaning nothing.
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And I was like, I don't know because I've never done it.
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Right.
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And my mom was the first one to sign up for my first course.
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So I had one student.
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Yeah.
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And the rest is history.
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From there, I've grown, I've gotten certified.
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I've gotten multiple awards, more certifications.
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Now I have a community, I do one-on-one coaching, I coach other coaches, I have a business course, I have a podcast, I write, speak, do events, all that.
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I've asked a coach column in Alcohol Free Magazine and all that good stuff.
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So yeah, that was exciting.
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I saw that when you posted that on social media.
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That's that's exciting.
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That's fun.
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Oh my gosh.
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Like Carrie Bradshaw, right?
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So like another one of my little dreams come true for sure.
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Isn't it crazy?
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Well, congratulations to you on your sobriety and and what you have created and done for others.
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But this is like, it's so bananas how this is such it's so common for therapists to not listen to women telling them, like, I think I got a drinking issue.
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And then it's like, no, no, you don't, because it's like I have heard many, many, many, many women say, Yeah, I told my therapists this, and they just like they just kind of swept it aside and said, No, I'm not a person with the with the drinking issue.
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It it is absolutely bananas, and it's crazy.
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Whenever I share that story, a million hands raise and say, Me too.
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Right.
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Same, same, same.
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Right, right.
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It was funny because yesterday on social media I came across like a parenting page and it was talking about cannabis and how there's like you should not smoke or use cannabis during pregnancy, blah, blah, blah.
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And so I put under there and I was like, Oh, I wish they had more warnings about this with alcohol.
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And then this chick was like, girl, what do you mean?
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Alcohol fetal syndrome.
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And I was like, Don't you dare go there because the people women are told that it is okay to continue to drink small amounts.
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And I said, and then afterwards, women are told to drink beer to up their breast milk supply.
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For sure.
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I was gonna say, yeah, alcohol on a train leaf was good for me and my baby.
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That's what I thought.
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That's what I was told.
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But also, I love that.
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I love those studies that said alcohol was good for me in whatever way because are good for my family because I wanted it to be, right?
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Like um, I wanted to believe that, even though my own inner knowing knew.
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I mean, I always knew.
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In fact, I have my I've been like a journaler my whole life.
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And my 21st birthday was my golden birthday, beginning of spring break.
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And I wrote in my journal that I was 21 years old and I was afraid that I was an alcoholic.
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And I quit drinking 21 years later when I was 42.
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So also we questioned this for a long time, and our own inner knowing is telling us it's a problem, but we love to ignore it, avoid it, deny it.
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And when a professional therapist tells us to do that or a study from XYZ tells us that, we want to latch onto that, right?
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Yeah, for sure, for sure.
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And that is a thing too, like going back on what we were talking about, like with the mom thing.
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But yeah, at 25, I woke up from a major hangover and I was like, there's gonna be a day I quit drinking.
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I just don't know when.
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I do believe, I am such a firm believer that anybody with any type of issue, insert your drug of choice, whatever it does, you everybody knows.
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And it's whether you act upon it or don't.
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And that's what it comes down to, right?
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Like if you're if you're really good and tired or if you just want to keep going and and seeing how far you can take it.
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But going back to the mom thing, like what do you think, like for you, okay?
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Because uh I am very fortunate that I did not enter in my motherhood journey with drinking.
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But for you, when you were a mom, like what are those messages that you kept receiving or saw about the mommy wine culture?
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Yeah, it was just so normalized, right?
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That you could have a drink in the shower and a drink at play dates and a drink to take the edge off, and parenting is hard, and I wine, mommy, mommy wines, eye wine.
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The whole thing.
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Everywhere I looked were messages that affirmed I was okay.
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And and that I was doing the normal thing that everybody was doing.
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And from where I grew up, like I said, I mean, alcohol can have a reputation or be very ever present anywhere.
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Yes.
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Wisconsin is very is a very much a drinking culture.
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We've named our baseball league after beer.
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Okay, like it's it's very so it's like it it was just normal.
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I never considered not drinking.
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Yes.
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I I didn't know anybody sober, and if they were, it was shame on them.
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Their hand was slapped and they had to sit with their back to the party.
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Yeah.
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So I didn't because they were wrong and something was wrong with them, never because alcohol is an addictive substance that we should be aware of and have informed consent about, right?
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Yeah, and like yeah, the the Midwest is wild with the drinking culture in it because that's the same thing for for Michigan.
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It's like, what dude, what is it?
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It's Illinois, like uh Wisconsin, Milwaukee, Minnesota.
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Like it, it's it's very heavy.
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It's just normal.
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And I was like popular and I was fun and I liked friends and I liked to dance and I like music and I like to go out, and I was so extroverted that alcohol was just the way to do that.
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Yeah, and I was drinking in barns and fields, and it wasn't questioned by anyone anywhere.
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And also everybody around me was drinking.
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And I'm not gonna blame like my parents or anything like that, but everybody was drinking everywhere I looked, even grandparents before and after church, right?
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Like it was just it was just par for the core.
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So it was very normalized.
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So to continue those messages as a mom, and this was the height of mommy wine culture that affirmed what I was doing, and it made me feel not so bad about it.
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And like, if everybody's doing it, it's okay.
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Even though, like I said, I always knew I liked alcohol a little more than most.
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I wanted it more than most.
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I never wanted to stay home, I never wanted to go home after a party.
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We were my husband was laughing with my daughter because there was one New Year's Eve, it was 5 a.m.
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and I was mad at him because I was not ready to go home yet.
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I am never done, okay?
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Right?
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Pissed.
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Yeah, I get that, I feel that.
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I mean, and that's very common.
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And I think that that's probably something too.
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I don't know.
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Looking back where it was like every other people could shut it off, but you couldn't, I couldn't.
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And that was the thing.
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And like, even too, if I would get home from a night out, or like if we went to dinner and had a couple drinks, I would get pissed.
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I wasn't drunk enough.
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Totally, that nightcaps at home and try to make it real casual, right?
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Like, I'm literally never done.
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If I'm passed out, okay, I made it, but otherwise I'm not done.
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But the thing is, I think with that, is that it because of because because of the way that we grew up in the Midwest and because of the way alcohol had been looked at for a really long time, alcohol was not the problem.
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You are the problem.
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And which who among us wants to say we're a problem?
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Right.
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Nobody does.
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So it it was self-protection to keep drinking and to ignore what was happening to me, to ignore my inner knowing.
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Because if I said, Yeah, actually, I think this is a problem for me, then it says something's very wrong with you.
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Why can't you hang with the rest of them?
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Why can't you be normal?
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Why can't you drink like everybody drinks?
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Alcohol is an innocent substance, and there's something wrong with you that you can't manage it.
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And that's not true.
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We know that's not true now.
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But at the time, if I was to admit to my fear about my relationship with alcohol, I would have to say something's wrong with me.
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So it was self-preservation and self-protection to just say, I'm normal, it's fine.
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All moms drink in the shower, all moms have a nightcap when they go home.
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Everybody needs wine at play dates, it's not just me, right?
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No big deal.
00:15:38.559 --> 00:15:41.600
Pour a little wine when you're making dinner with the kids.
00:15:41.600 --> 00:15:43.279
That's that's so normal.
00:15:43.279 --> 00:15:46.960
Somebody does that in the movies, so I'm just a normal mom.
00:15:48.399 --> 00:15:48.720
Yeah.
00:15:48.720 --> 00:15:55.519
Was there any time during that time where you're like, you woke up the next day and you're you're like, I pushed it too far.
00:15:55.519 --> 00:15:58.960
Did you have any of those during those motherhood days?
00:16:00.159 --> 00:16:01.279
Oh my god.
00:16:01.759 --> 00:16:06.240
So looking back, I can't believe I lived this way.
00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:10.960
But dragging myself through the day was normal.
00:16:10.960 --> 00:16:11.519
Yeah.
00:16:11.519 --> 00:16:12.639
That's what was normal.
00:16:12.639 --> 00:16:14.399
I didn't know anything different.
00:16:14.399 --> 00:16:20.320
Waking up with a headache, basically punching myself in the face as soon as I woke up to say, I hate you, you're wrong.
00:16:20.320 --> 00:16:20.960
You did it again.
00:16:20.960 --> 00:16:21.759
Why can't you quit?
00:16:21.759 --> 00:16:22.720
What's wrong with you?
00:16:22.720 --> 00:16:24.159
You're terrible.
00:16:24.159 --> 00:16:28.559
That's how I started my day, telling myself how much I hated myself.
00:16:28.559 --> 00:16:32.559
And then put slapping a smile on my face.
00:16:32.559 --> 00:16:43.519
I was drinking too much, but I was also the first one awake every morning, covering my tracks, cleaning up the wine bottles, making lunches, sweeping the floor.
00:16:43.519 --> 00:16:48.080
I actually swept the floor with my broken leg before I knew it was broken.
00:16:48.080 --> 00:16:50.480
I was sweeping the floor and was like, actually, this hurts.
00:16:50.480 --> 00:16:52.480
I think I should go to the emergency room.
00:16:52.480 --> 00:16:53.840
I don't want to bother anybody.
00:16:53.840 --> 00:16:55.039
I don't want to make a fuss.
00:16:55.039 --> 00:16:58.480
Well, it turns out I had a broken leg and I was sweeping my kitchen floor, right?
00:16:58.480 --> 00:17:09.119
So just covering my tracks and trying to be the best I could for my kids that day, trying to hide, trying, I was very dishonest with myself and I was just trying to hide the effects.
00:17:09.119 --> 00:17:11.279
Again, telling myself to get over it.
00:17:11.279 --> 00:17:15.279
I think get over it was my mantra for grief, for life, for hangovers.
00:17:15.279 --> 00:17:20.400
Just don't feel, don't feel a thing, don't pay attention and don't be honest with yourself.
00:17:20.400 --> 00:17:22.160
And then go to work.
00:17:22.160 --> 00:17:23.759
And I was moving up at work.
00:17:23.759 --> 00:17:26.160
I was, I was checking the boxes from the outside.
00:17:26.160 --> 00:17:26.960
It looked okay.
00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:31.039
I was doing the things that I was supposed to be doing and it looked good.
00:17:31.039 --> 00:17:35.680
And my inner knowing my insides, I was killing myself and I knew it.
00:17:35.680 --> 00:17:36.400
I could feel it.
00:17:36.400 --> 00:17:38.400
And it was getting darker and darker.
00:17:38.400 --> 00:17:44.640
It was escalating at the end, but I I couldn't admit that I had a problem.
00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:49.599
I really didn't want to do that because I'm a perfectionist and I didn't want anything to be wrong with me.
00:17:49.599 --> 00:17:52.079
I've been trying to be perfect my whole life.
00:17:52.079 --> 00:17:54.480
So I really didn't want anything to be wrong with me.
00:17:54.480 --> 00:17:57.599
And I thought, well, if I don't acknowledge it, then it's not there.
00:17:57.599 --> 00:17:58.000
Yeah.
00:17:58.160 --> 00:18:00.880
And were were you the good girl growing up?
00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:03.039
As a good girl, is like you didn't make.
00:18:03.039 --> 00:18:04.559
Do you have siblings?
00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:08.480
It's a it's a long I'm an only child and I have siblings everywhere.
00:18:08.480 --> 00:18:13.599
So it's both my parents are are my parents divorced when I was very young and they both remarried.
00:18:13.599 --> 00:18:15.920
But I'm the only between my mom and my dad.
00:18:15.920 --> 00:18:18.079
And for my first six years of life, I was only.
00:18:18.079 --> 00:18:21.200
So I kind of identify with that, even though I have all these people.
00:18:21.200 --> 00:18:23.519
But yeah, I was perfect and I was good.
00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:23.920
Yeah.
00:18:23.920 --> 00:18:28.000
I was also a party girl and everything like that, but I was a very good girl.
00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:31.119
And in fact, I was the one you didn't have to worry about.
00:18:31.119 --> 00:18:36.720
And that was intentional because if I was okay, that would prove that my parents were okay.
00:18:36.880 --> 00:18:37.119
Yeah.
00:18:37.279 --> 00:18:38.880
It was the first divorce in the family.
00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:43.279
So I felt a lot of pressure to be well-mannered, good grades.
00:18:43.279 --> 00:18:47.440
My dad would pass my report card around, and that's how I got positive attention, right?
00:18:47.440 --> 00:18:48.799
And he wasn't always around.
00:18:48.799 --> 00:18:50.640
So that was a way to get his attention.
00:18:50.640 --> 00:18:51.039
Yes.
00:18:51.039 --> 00:18:59.440
And if I was a polite, good girl and I was doing well, then it would prove that my parents were okay and our whole, my whole system was okay.
00:18:59.440 --> 00:19:01.359
So I took that on for sure.
00:19:01.680 --> 00:19:02.000
Yeah.
00:19:02.000 --> 00:19:02.400
Yeah.
00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:03.519
And that's what I mean.
00:19:03.519 --> 00:19:07.839
I was a good girl too, because it's and and that's a thing that is an early on.
00:19:07.839 --> 00:19:09.440
I don't want to say it's a condit.
00:19:09.440 --> 00:19:17.839
I mean, it can't it becomes a conditioning, but it's almost like you put that on in yourself, especially to when did your par what year did your parents get a divorce?
00:19:18.160 --> 00:19:19.839
So I was only three years old.
00:19:19.839 --> 00:19:25.119
But the funny thing is, my mom has my kindergarten screening assessment sheet.
00:19:25.119 --> 00:19:25.519
Yeah.
00:19:25.519 --> 00:19:26.960
I can't I can't believe she has that.
00:19:26.960 --> 00:19:27.839
So now I have this.
00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:34.160
And it says in there all my work, everything I said to this person assessing me for kindergarten readiness, let's say.
00:19:34.160 --> 00:19:41.279
And I am so mad that the crayons they've given me are brown and broken because I cannot do my best work.
00:19:41.279 --> 00:19:44.400
I cannot stand on any sharp crayons, any prettier colors.
00:19:44.400 --> 00:19:45.759
I can't do my best work.
00:19:45.759 --> 00:19:51.200
And it was like I was four years old, and like, look at that perfectionism shining through.
00:19:51.200 --> 00:19:52.640
Yeah, yeah.
00:19:52.640 --> 00:19:56.079
You know, already things were not perfect enough for me.
00:19:56.079 --> 00:19:56.400
Right.
00:19:56.400 --> 00:19:59.359
And I did not do my most perfect job.
00:19:59.359 --> 00:20:02.640
I mean, spoiler alert, I got into kindergarten.
00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:03.039
Okay.
00:20:03.279 --> 00:20:03.680
Yes.
00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:04.160
Yes.
00:20:04.160 --> 00:20:05.200
Right, right.
00:20:05.200 --> 00:20:06.799
Well, yeah, but that is the thing.
00:20:06.799 --> 00:20:23.759
And then sometimes you wonder too, is like, is that more of like a female thing where that is of girls tend to go more to that side of perfectionism and then not really, because when it goes down to it of being the good girl too, it's like a part of you doesn't want to be seen.
00:20:23.759 --> 00:20:34.160
Like, but and then in that drinking and that active addiction with alcohol, it is then the party girl persona, because I relate to this so much.
00:20:34.160 --> 00:20:36.880
It's like that's where I could be seen.
00:20:36.880 --> 00:20:42.960
And that's where I thought I had held value to to others, to men, to friends, right?
00:20:42.960 --> 00:20:46.400
Like, so it's it's that whole that whole idea.
00:20:46.400 --> 00:20:50.880
It's very, very it's sad, but it's interesting because it is.
00:20:50.880 --> 00:20:55.039
It's like you do, it's almost like you're screaming out for the attention to be seen.
00:20:55.359 --> 00:20:56.720
Yeah, super common.
00:20:56.720 --> 00:21:00.079
And to add to that, I was class clown.
00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:02.880
So I love attention.
00:21:02.880 --> 00:21:04.240
I want attention.
00:21:04.240 --> 00:21:05.119
Give me attention.
00:21:05.119 --> 00:21:07.920
I'm literally begging for attention everywhere I go.
00:21:07.920 --> 00:21:10.880
I'm begging to be noticed, to be seen.
00:21:10.880 --> 00:21:16.319
And alcohol and boys, that's all I was doing was being with my friends and chasing boys.
00:21:16.319 --> 00:21:23.039
That alcohol totally helped with those awkward new relationships when you're growing up.
00:21:23.039 --> 00:21:28.640
I didn't have the I was tear, I was a I'm a people please a recovering people pleaser as well.
00:21:28.640 --> 00:21:31.519
So how dare I tell a guy if I don't like something?
00:21:31.519 --> 00:21:33.039
I wasn't able to do that.
00:21:33.039 --> 00:21:39.039
So alcohol just like shut me up and let me go along with a lot of things that wouldn't have been right.
00:21:39.039 --> 00:21:41.039
But again, I don't want to make a fuss.
00:21:41.039 --> 00:21:43.440
I don't want to be a problem, I don't want to bother anybody.
00:21:43.440 --> 00:21:46.240
I don't, and I'm still like I'm still working on that.
00:21:46.240 --> 00:21:47.359
It's embarrassing.
00:21:47.359 --> 00:21:54.960
I'm almost 50 years old, but I'm like, if I have to tell somebody no, I do it now, but then it takes my nerve.
00:21:54.960 --> 00:21:56.720
Yeah, my nerve.
00:21:56.720 --> 00:21:58.079
It's not like that felt good.
00:21:58.079 --> 00:22:00.960
I'm not like jumping for like, wow, I set a boundary.
00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:01.839
That felt so good.
00:22:01.839 --> 00:22:06.880
I like set the boundary and then I go in the fetal position and cry because I know it's gonna make somebody feel not like me.
00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:14.319
Yeah, no, I mean it that takes that takes a lot of years to get through like that people pleasing, codependency.
00:22:14.319 --> 00:22:29.599
I think two of the the perfectionism, I really those are things that I do truly believe that you constantly have to work on throughout the years because situations will always arise where you're melt met with something and it's like codependent no more.
00:22:29.680 --> 00:22:36.960
I've read like five times because it's come up in my life where I'm like overfunctioning too, overfunctioning.
00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:38.960
And it goes right along with that.
00:22:38.960 --> 00:22:42.799
And yeah, and alcohol fueled my overfunctioning.
00:22:42.799 --> 00:22:53.200
Like I said, like I maybe was drunk as a skunk stumbling upstairs the night before, but I was sure as hell getting up and making lunches and cleaning the kitchen and and also doing everything for everybody.
00:22:53.200 --> 00:22:55.279
So that so that's the other thing.
00:22:55.279 --> 00:22:59.279
When I quit drinking, my family dynamics had to change.
00:22:59.279 --> 00:23:03.440
And it was a little bit clumsy at first because it was new for all of us, right?
00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:21.599
And I love my family and they're my best support, but none of us knew what we were doing, and it was it was a little clunky, and we've worked it out, but everybody had to change in the whole system, and it's been beautiful, but it wasn't without some like just some clumsiness in between, and that's where a coach can help so much, right?
00:23:21.839 --> 00:23:38.640
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00:26:46.400 --> 00:26:49.680
Yeah, especially the overfunctioning.
00:26:49.680 --> 00:26:52.480
With a lot of my clients, I'm like, we're just gonna chill this week.
00:26:52.480 --> 00:26:54.079
We're not doing much.
00:26:54.079 --> 00:27:11.839
Because the overfunctioning leads to burnout and that uh and you can't when you get sober, you can't keep doing the same things that you were doing in your active drinking days because it doesn't work, it doesn't match who you are, and there's the reason you got through so much on the weekends.
00:27:11.839 --> 00:27:15.680
If you overbooked yourself, it's because you were most likely drinking through them.
00:27:15.680 --> 00:27:19.920
So now in a sober state, it's like this is a lot.
00:27:20.640 --> 00:27:24.960
And your health matters and your pleasure matters, right?
00:27:24.960 --> 00:27:29.039
Like you've it's it's a reprioritizing the whole pattern.
00:27:29.039 --> 00:27:30.000
You're totally right.
00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:46.240
And everybody needs some support in doing that and looking at that also, having like a jar not reading its own somebody to say to you, this is what it looks like from the outside, or this is what I'm hearing you say, and they're like, Oh my god, yeah, like I have to cover for everybody in my life.
00:27:46.240 --> 00:27:47.359
No, you don't.
00:27:47.839 --> 00:27:48.240
Yeah.
00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:57.599
So in from your point of view, because we got to talk about this too, because Heather and I on the interwebs, we always I think we have a lap.
00:27:57.599 --> 00:28:00.079
I mean, nowadays it's just like, dude, enough.
00:28:00.079 --> 00:28:03.119
We get, I don't know if you get it so much.
00:28:03.119 --> 00:28:10.480
I used to get in in the beginning and then it stopped, and then of of late in the last couple months, I've gotten it again.
00:28:10.480 --> 00:28:21.839
But the hate of people for sober coaches of thinking that sober coaches are con artists, scammers.
00:28:21.839 --> 00:28:26.880
How dare you, how dare you charge for sobriety?
00:28:26.880 --> 00:28:31.200
So what is your hot take on that?
00:28:33.359 --> 00:28:34.480
Where do I begin?
00:28:34.480 --> 00:28:38.960
Yes, so I I can't stand it, first of all.
00:28:38.960 --> 00:28:44.799
I can't stand things that say like sobriety should be free, recovery should be free, or whatever.
00:28:44.799 --> 00:28:46.720
Yeah, go for it.
00:28:46.720 --> 00:28:54.960
Also, if you were if you were struggling with any issue, you would go to an expert resource to help you.
00:28:54.960 --> 00:29:04.960
And so I think addiction and sobriety, I mean it's the for me, it was the number one domino to f and to improve my entire life.
00:29:04.960 --> 00:29:13.440
My health, my relationships, my finances, like my career, my parenting, like my spiritual life, literally every single thing that matters to me.
00:29:13.440 --> 00:29:24.400
So if you could sell the results of sobriety in a pill, you would pay $10,000 in a second for that pill if it was gonna fix all those things, if if it was guaranteed to fix all those things, right?
00:29:24.400 --> 00:29:34.400
Like, and how much money that $10,000 would save you in the long run from drinks and Ubers and health problems and hospitalizations and all the things, right?
00:29:34.400 --> 00:29:38.640
So I I think that message is just too bad.
00:29:38.640 --> 00:29:40.160
Like we would invest in ourselves.
00:29:40.160 --> 00:29:45.759
And if you were going to a doctor, you would want a doctor that was trained, right?
00:29:45.759 --> 00:29:46.880
And what they were doing.
00:29:46.880 --> 00:29:55.839
If your house was burning down, you would want a fireman who knew how to fight fires, not a child who was pretending to be a firefighter, right?
00:29:55.839 --> 00:29:58.240
Like, so how would this be different?
00:29:58.240 --> 00:29:59.839
Like this mental health.
00:29:59.839 --> 00:30:07.839
And physical health is involved, why wouldn't you go to somebody that has a system of walking you through change and has results?
00:30:07.839 --> 00:30:09.839
I don't think there's anything wrong with paying for that.
00:30:09.839 --> 00:30:12.799
I think it's the best investment you can make on yourself.
00:30:12.799 --> 00:30:18.000
However, coaching being an unregulated industry, it gets a bad name, right?
00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:20.880
Because not everybody is trained and certified.
00:30:20.880 --> 00:30:26.799
And technically anyone can call themselves a coach with zero credentials and zero qualifications.
00:30:26.799 --> 00:30:28.000
And people do.
00:30:28.000 --> 00:30:34.079
So there's people that do a lot of good, probably without training and credentials.
00:30:34.079 --> 00:30:35.759
And there's also people that do harm.
00:30:35.759 --> 00:30:38.960
And that's the same for the people with training and credentials.
00:30:38.960 --> 00:30:46.000
But I will say the people with training and credentials have some education, they follow some ethics and standards.
00:30:46.000 --> 00:30:49.920
So, and hopefully it's been accredited by an outside source.
00:30:49.920 --> 00:31:01.359
Like for instance, me, I was accredited by the International Association of Professional Recovery Coaches, which is accredited by the International Coach Foundation and the National Board of Health and Wellness.
00:31:01.359 --> 00:31:06.640
So it's not like ditch the drink coaching, it's the best coaching because ditch drink says so.
00:31:06.640 --> 00:31:09.039
Like there's a there's an outside source coming in.
00:31:09.039 --> 00:31:20.960
So I think because of that, there are people that are doing harm, but there's also most anybody that's in my circle, most of the people that I know, you and I included, are doing a lot of good and seeing results.
00:31:20.960 --> 00:31:24.480
And women's lives are changing for the better.
00:31:24.480 --> 00:31:26.000
That is priceless.
00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:28.640
They're living, they're not an unlived life anymore.
00:31:28.640 --> 00:31:30.559
There's nothing more important than that.
00:31:30.559 --> 00:31:33.359
And we're not out to scam anybody.
00:31:33.359 --> 00:31:34.240
Are you kidding me?
00:31:34.240 --> 00:31:35.599
We're out to save lives.
00:31:35.599 --> 00:31:36.960
We're truly save lives.
00:31:37.279 --> 00:31:43.279
Yeah, and and the f and the free concept of it really does come from the 12 steps.
00:31:43.279 --> 00:31:45.759
It does from in-person meetings, right?
00:31:45.759 --> 00:31:51.920
However, if you're still contributing just a dollar into the basket, you're still paying.
00:31:51.920 --> 00:31:53.920
That's a transaction, right?
00:31:53.920 --> 00:31:56.400
So is that free?
00:31:56.960 --> 00:31:57.200
Right.
00:31:57.440 --> 00:31:58.000
You know what I mean?
00:31:58.000 --> 00:31:59.200
Like, is that free?
00:31:59.200 --> 00:32:01.759
Because they're still collecting dollars at every meeting.
00:32:01.759 --> 00:32:02.319
Okay.
00:32:02.319 --> 00:32:12.000
And I if this isn't this isn't a bash towards 12 steps or none of that, because that is helpful for some people, but it's not helpful for everybody.
00:32:12.000 --> 00:32:19.759
And when I met with a troll living under the bridge on the interwebs, it's like, oh, I remember one time too.
00:32:19.759 --> 00:32:24.400
I did a post on my book, and someone was like, Great, somebody's selling me another book.
00:32:24.400 --> 00:32:28.319
It's like, bitch, do you talk this way to like Kristen Hannah?
00:32:28.319 --> 00:32:29.599
Like, do you know what I mean?
00:32:29.599 --> 00:32:32.880
Like, do you like, yeah, I wrote this, buy it or not?
00:32:32.880 --> 00:32:36.720
Nobody's forcing you by looking at my content to buy something.
00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:40.960
It is on you and your fat little fingers to press purchase.
00:32:41.119 --> 00:32:44.400
So, like, and as an author, you write a book and then you sell a book.
00:32:44.400 --> 00:32:45.920
That's what authors do, okay?
00:32:45.920 --> 00:32:46.480
Yeah.
00:32:46.799 --> 00:32:56.799
So, like the whole thing of of the free stuff, and like you create it, like you, you and I, we have a nice healthy balance of free and paid stuff.
00:32:56.799 --> 00:33:05.119
And so it it is one of those things that it's like this whole conversation of like sobriety should be freed.
00:33:05.119 --> 00:33:09.519
And this is where I just want to challenge some people, okay?
00:33:09.519 --> 00:33:24.720
I'm just gonna say it because I have been met with people who are like my sponsor has a bunch of sponsees and doesn't really have that much time for me.
00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:39.599
Or, and so I do feel like in that sponsey situation, it is getting a little dicey because of two how much a person's going to take on and how much they can handle and not take serious.
00:33:39.599 --> 00:33:50.000
Not all sponsors take their sponsies seriously, or they just get ditched, and that is easy to do because it is free.
00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:54.559
And when you have somebody paying, it's gonna be a totally different situation.
00:33:54.559 --> 00:34:00.240
I mean, I'm sure you I only take on so many one-on-one clients a month because I'm not trying to overextend myself.
00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:10.800
Also, with the follow-up on that of going to like the con artists, it's like there is a bad person in every single industry you can think of on Planet.
00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:23.599
There are shithead doctors out there, there are horrible doctors out there that you're paying you're paying thousands of dollars to for giving you maybe a breast lift and then them botching it up, like right?
00:34:23.599 --> 00:34:27.199
Like there is there is a bad egg in every industry.
00:34:27.199 --> 00:34:29.119
So, like that is the whole thing.
00:34:29.119 --> 00:34:36.960
It's like when you group get grouped into somebody who was maybe a con in the sober coaching world, it's like, okay, but that's not me.
00:34:37.119 --> 00:34:38.239
That's not me for sure.
00:34:38.239 --> 00:34:46.400
Yeah, I love what you said because here's the other thing you and I both offer free resources, a lot of them, this podcast included, right?
00:34:46.400 --> 00:34:51.519
And so here's a free resource that everyone can listen to right now that we are spending our time on.
00:34:51.519 --> 00:34:54.239
And anybody is welcome to do that.
00:34:54.239 --> 00:35:03.280
And we have offers at different different income levels or different revenue cycles or different price race points, right?
00:35:03.280 --> 00:35:04.719
So there is something for everybody.
00:35:04.719 --> 00:35:06.239
I also have free guides.
00:35:06.239 --> 00:35:12.719
We're on social media, we're sharing info and stories and resources and all these things.
00:35:12.719 --> 00:35:19.599
So you and I both offer a ton of free stuff that's available for everybody, and it is free.
00:35:19.599 --> 00:35:25.039
And also to deliver that, like I do a free weekly newsletter to deliver that.
00:35:25.039 --> 00:35:29.840
Do you know how much time it takes for me at my hourly rate to sit down and write that?
00:35:29.840 --> 00:35:38.719
Do you know how it how much it costs for my technology and your technology to send and deliver you that newsletter?
00:35:38.719 --> 00:35:42.320
So even my free resources cost me money.
00:35:42.320 --> 00:35:51.760
I'm paying to offer those free resources because I've had to pay for my training, I've had to pay for my software, I have to pay for my technology, I have to pay for right like so.
00:35:51.760 --> 00:35:56.239
Those free resources are free to others, but they cost me money to offer.
00:35:56.239 --> 00:35:58.159
So, so there's that, right?
00:35:58.159 --> 00:36:02.159
I'm putting money into this, and it's not for everyone, right?
00:36:02.159 --> 00:36:08.559
But also in my experience, the women that come to me, they've talked it over with a friend before.
00:36:08.559 --> 00:36:10.159
They've they've done some of those.
00:36:10.159 --> 00:36:13.360
Those the friend isn't trained, is not a trained coach.
00:36:13.360 --> 00:36:21.199
She's a listening ear and a compassionate companion, maybe, but she doesn't know how to hold somebody accountable and walk them through transformation.
00:36:21.199 --> 00:36:26.079
She doesn't know the questions to ask to get her friend to her own aha's to make a difference.
00:36:26.079 --> 00:36:30.880
And when you put some, when you commit a little time and money, you've got some skin in the game.
00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:32.559
And that starts to make a difference.
00:36:32.559 --> 00:36:36.239
That's why a lot of free programs people drop off because they don't really care.
00:36:36.239 --> 00:36:38.800
Me included, all of us included, right?
00:36:38.800 --> 00:36:42.719
And when you pay for something, you're like, I'm gonna show up to that meeting because I paid for that.
00:36:42.719 --> 00:36:43.360
Right?
00:36:43.360 --> 00:36:43.840
Yeah.
00:36:43.840 --> 00:36:47.360
And so you have a little more skin in the game, you have a little more investment.
00:36:47.360 --> 00:36:52.960
And spiritually, energetically, you're telling the universe that you're taking this seriously, right?
00:36:52.960 --> 00:37:00.159
So you're willing, you're telling the universe you're you're you matter and you're worth it, and you're willing to invest some time and money for that.
00:37:00.159 --> 00:37:06.239
And I like you take a very limited amount of one-on-one because I want to be the best possible coach.
00:37:06.239 --> 00:37:09.679
And when my schedule gets too full, I can tell I'm not, right?
00:37:09.679 --> 00:37:11.280
I cannot be overwhelmed myself.
00:37:11.280 --> 00:37:13.039
I can't start mixing up my client stories.
00:37:13.039 --> 00:37:13.920
Like that's too many.
00:37:13.920 --> 00:37:21.360
I don't want that because you have my whole heart and soul versus perhaps a sponsor that has a million and can't get back to any of them, right?
00:37:21.519 --> 00:37:22.159
Yeah, yeah.
00:37:22.320 --> 00:37:23.760
It's a different offering too.
00:37:23.760 --> 00:37:30.320
A sponsor is somebody who's walked through the program and can walk you through steps, but they're not necessarily a trained coach.
00:37:31.199 --> 00:37:32.639
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
00:37:32.639 --> 00:37:42.239
And that is, it's it's I I'm trying to think of what else on the internet that I've heard about coaches before of just well that everybody is one, and like it's the next thing to do.
00:37:42.320 --> 00:37:47.440
And here's one that bothers me is like now coaches are coaching coaches, like now that's the new fun thing.
00:37:47.440 --> 00:37:50.559
Yeah, and of course that offends me because I actually do that.
00:37:50.559 --> 00:38:01.039
Yeah, but it's it's also like the hero's journey because anybody who's overcome something wants to turn their turn around and hold out their hand to the next person coming through, right?
00:38:01.039 --> 00:38:02.960
So that's what you and I have done.
00:38:02.960 --> 00:38:15.119
We we have done that as coaches, but then my coaches, my clients want to become coaches, and I partner with where I got trained, so I refer them to that, and then they want to start a business and they don't know how, and neither did I, right?
00:38:15.119 --> 00:38:24.639
So I put that information into a digital course for people so they could learn all the things that I had to learn, but they could do it much faster because I had I had done that.
00:38:24.639 --> 00:38:26.639
And I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
00:38:26.639 --> 00:38:29.840
I don't think there's anything wrong with continuing to support my clients.
00:38:29.840 --> 00:38:32.320
I don't think there's anything wrong with sharing my experience.
00:38:32.320 --> 00:38:44.159
I don't think there's anything wrong with packaging and pricing all of my knowledge and my lesson learned to cut out the noise and give people the guidebook to what they need to do.
00:38:44.159 --> 00:38:46.239
Like, I think that's the hero's journey.
00:38:46.239 --> 00:38:48.800
I don't think that's a con artist at all.
00:38:49.599 --> 00:38:50.880
No, no, it's not.
00:38:50.880 --> 00:38:56.960
But like if you look at like again, going back to it at the conversation of this should be free.
00:38:56.960 --> 00:38:58.960
And I I believe you touched on it too.
00:38:58.960 --> 00:39:01.920
Okay, well, then going to a therapy session should be free.
00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:06.800
You shouldn't have to pay somebody a copay to sit and talk about your mental health issues.
00:39:06.800 --> 00:39:12.880
Then these rehab right, then these rehab facilities shouldn't be $30,000 for a month visit.
00:39:12.880 --> 00:39:23.760
So, like and I don't get why those don't, I mean, and the rehab industry is not that one is not that one is not a unicorn industry.
00:39:23.760 --> 00:39:30.320
There's a lot of there is a lot of dirtiness in rehabilitation, that industry.
00:39:30.320 --> 00:39:34.159
Um, and if people have to keep coming back, that keeps making money.
00:39:34.159 --> 00:39:34.800
Right.
00:39:34.800 --> 00:39:36.480
And but the this is the thing.
00:39:36.480 --> 00:39:46.480
And this is anytime I have a consult a consult with a person, I say to them, I cannot sit there and physically slap Chardonnay out of your hand.
00:39:46.480 --> 00:39:49.199
I live in the suburbs of Detroit, Michigan.
00:39:49.199 --> 00:39:51.280
I had, I've worked with even a couple of ladies.
00:39:51.280 --> 00:39:53.280
Oh, I've worked with a lady over in Australia.
00:39:53.280 --> 00:39:55.920
I worked with a lady over in, I think it was Norway.
00:39:55.920 --> 00:39:59.920
It's like, I cannot sit there and slap, I cannot physically sit there.
00:39:59.920 --> 00:40:07.039
So I'm not, I don't sit here and guarantee you sobriety because you have to show up and do that for yourself.
00:40:07.039 --> 00:40:20.719
What I can guarantee you is A, B, C, and D and helping you walk through this process and holding you accountable and supporting you along the way of this transformation and building more of this solid foundation for you.
00:40:20.719 --> 00:40:25.199
So, because if you look at the numbers, it's very slim pickings of rehab.
00:40:25.199 --> 00:40:31.199
And I've worked with people straight out of rehab just for extra accountability because it is so small.
00:40:31.199 --> 00:40:37.920
The AA percentage is so very small of people who go there end up staying sober for good.
00:40:37.920 --> 00:40:39.199
It is very small.
00:40:39.199 --> 00:40:40.800
So it's just like it's the same thing.
00:40:40.800 --> 00:40:41.920
You're gonna go to a therapist.
00:40:41.920 --> 00:40:47.599
Do you think you're gonna get healed from your therapist when we have therapy therapists in this country?
00:40:47.599 --> 00:40:51.920
Ignoring you're telling them you have a drinking problem in their scene.
00:40:52.880 --> 00:40:55.440
Right, that's what I paid $300 an hour for.
00:41:01.039 --> 00:41:09.760
Going to a doctor where they're writing off, like, oh, well, you're not, you're not drinking, drinking one glass of wine a day is okay.
00:41:09.760 --> 00:41:14.159
It's like, well, no, doc, if you add that up, that's seven glasses per week, you know what I mean?
00:41:14.159 --> 00:41:17.519
And like right, and by one drink, I have one bottle, by the way.
00:41:17.519 --> 00:41:21.280
Yeah, like nobody is pouring themselves six ounces of wine sorrow.
00:41:21.280 --> 00:41:22.159
You know what I mean?
00:41:22.159 --> 00:41:25.199
So, like it's all it's it it's in a system where it's all dismissed.
00:41:25.199 --> 00:41:31.519
So, like for you to for anybody to be able to do sober coaching, wonderful.
00:41:31.519 --> 00:41:39.280
If that option, if if that fits for you, whether it's somebody who vibes with me or you or another sober coach, great.
00:41:39.599 --> 00:41:44.559
Find somebody who has what you want and ask them how they got there a hundred percent.
00:41:44.559 --> 00:41:52.400
And the result, I mean, the results of our coaching shows our clients are getting and staying sober, so there's no bigger result than that.
00:41:52.400 --> 00:41:54.079
It's so beautiful.
00:41:54.079 --> 00:41:55.599
So it's effective.
00:41:55.599 --> 00:42:06.639
And I think coaching is for people that want to be the best in their game, the best athletes, leaders, business folks, politicians-like you name the industry, the person that they have a coach.
00:42:06.639 --> 00:42:13.519
Even the top, the people at the top of their game, they have a coach because you need somebody to tell you what's up.
00:42:13.519 --> 00:42:20.639
Like you need somebody to reflect back to you and to hold your feet to the fire a little bit about keeping your promises and doing what you say.
00:42:20.639 --> 00:42:28.079
And when you don't, how to show up with compassion and change those patterns and and learn and adjust and try again.
00:42:28.079 --> 00:42:30.239
Plus, like strategies and tools.
00:42:30.239 --> 00:42:34.960
The other thing is you wouldn't know how to ditch the drink if you've never successfully done it before.
00:42:34.960 --> 00:42:37.440
Like, why would you think you would know how to do this?
00:42:37.440 --> 00:42:38.400
Of course you wouldn't.
00:42:38.400 --> 00:42:41.280
You haven't, or you've tried and you haven't been successful.
00:42:41.280 --> 00:42:47.599
So it's okay to get some guidance, it's okay to get some support, and it's okay to pay for that.
00:42:47.599 --> 00:42:52.000
So, and there's again all different programs at all different levels.
00:42:52.000 --> 00:42:53.599
There's something for everyone.
00:42:53.599 --> 00:42:57.280
And if free is what you want to need, you and I have free stuff.
00:42:57.280 --> 00:42:58.800
There's a lot of people that have free stuff.
00:42:58.800 --> 00:43:00.079
Grab it, use it.
00:43:00.079 --> 00:43:03.280
Yeah, little skin in the game, pay, right?
00:43:03.280 --> 00:43:03.840
Pay.
00:43:03.840 --> 00:43:11.760
And and the closer you get to one-on-one with more customized individual support, probably the results you see are going to be expedited even faster.
00:43:11.760 --> 00:43:16.800
I have people that have been in groups forever, and it's like, do one-on-one because we get to the heart of it, right?
00:43:16.800 --> 00:43:20.480
And it's it's you and me, and the focus is on you.
00:43:20.480 --> 00:43:24.079
So you definitely expedite those results with that.
00:43:24.320 --> 00:43:24.960
Right, right.
00:43:24.960 --> 00:43:27.519
Well, thank you so much for this talk today.
00:43:27.519 --> 00:43:29.280
Where can people find you at?
00:43:29.599 --> 00:43:32.480
Ditchthedrink.com, ditch the drink.com everywhere.
00:43:32.480 --> 00:43:35.119
Of course, free newsletter, free guides, all the good stuff.
00:43:35.119 --> 00:43:43.920
Ditch the drink on Instagram and Facebook and LinkedIn and Pinterest, and you won't find me on TikTok or any of the cool things.
00:43:43.920 --> 00:43:46.880
Uh, but I do the mo the middle-aged mom things.
00:43:46.880 --> 00:43:48.559
I'm everywhere is ditch the drink.
00:43:48.559 --> 00:43:50.000
I love connecting with people.
00:43:50.000 --> 00:43:51.760
I love connecting with you, Courtney.
00:43:51.760 --> 00:43:59.760
I'm so grateful for the the evil Instagram because it has connected us for years, and I'm glad we could finally have this conversation.
00:43:59.760 --> 00:44:06.079
And you're not a car con artist, and I will preach to anyone and everyone about that.
00:44:06.079 --> 00:44:10.159
I know how helpful you have been to so many, and you've been helpful to me on my journey too.
00:44:10.159 --> 00:44:11.760
So I thank you very much for that.
00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:13.360
Yes, well, same, same.
00:44:13.360 --> 00:44:21.039
All right, so I'm gonna put Heather's information in the show notes below and always slide into her IGDM and say hello, Heather.
00:44:21.039 --> 00:44:22.400
Thank you so much for being on.
00:44:22.400 --> 00:44:24.000
Good people of the world.
00:44:24.000 --> 00:44:27.519
Thank you for listening, and as always, keep on tracking.
00:44:27.519 --> 00:44:29.360
Thank you, Courtney.