Revert Corner 001: Navigating Conversion Privacy and Family Reactions #islam #revert #faithjourney

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So welcome everyone to the first episode of the Revert Corner.
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Inshallah, and we will be doing these every two weeks.
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They're basically going to be, you know, short episodes that are looking at the challenges, lessons, moments that come with, you know, conversion to Islam, reverting to Islam, and I'm joined today by my co-host, who will be joining me every couple of weeks, matt.
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As-salamu alaykum, matt, how's it going?
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Wa alaykum, as-salam Wa alaykum as-salam.
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And Carl as well.
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As-salamu alaykum, how's it going, carl?
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Wa alaykum as-salam, and Carl as well.
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As-salamu alaykum.
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How's it going, carl Wa alaykum as-salam.
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So yeah, just to kick things off, today's episode is going to be about dealing with friends and family when you revert and you know the reactions or how people deal with that, and just to kick things off, we're going to start every session with an ayah or hadith.
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Off, we're going to start every session with the ayah or hadith and Matt is going to bring us the ayah or hadith today.
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That hopefully ties into the topic of the episode and, you know, benefits us as well.
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So, inshallah, take it away, matt.
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The verse for today's episode is a general verse which emphasizes the blessing of Islam and Iman, and that is the well-known verse in the Surah Al-Hujurat, the chapter of Al-Hujurat, where Allah says يَمُنُّونَ عَلَيْكَ أَنْ أَسْلَمُوا قُلْ لَا تَمُنُّوا عَلَيَّ إِسْلَامَكُمْ بَلِ اللَّهُ.
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يَمُنُّ عَلَيْكُمْ أَنْ هَدَاكُمْ لِلْإِيمَانِ إِنْ كُنْتُمْ صَادِ.
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They regard their acceptance of Islam as a favor to you, o Muhammad.
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Tell them do not regard your Islam as a favor to me.
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Rather, it is Allah who has done you a favor by guiding you to faith, if indeed you are truthful.
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And the great explainer of the Qur'an, al-imam Sa'di rahimahullah.
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He said that, just as Allah has blessed us and bestowed us with sustenance and provisions, and our creation, him creating us, and all of the other blessings he bestows us with, whether those are apparent or hidden, or in public or in private, then the guidance to Islam and the guidance to faith, that is the greatest of all blessings and that is better than anything else that anyone can be blessed with.
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That's the verse of the day.
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Zaka ala khair, Much appreciated.
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Matt.
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And you know definitely, you know, beneficial.
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So this is a thing that we'll try to do every episode where we'll begin with either a hadith or ayah.
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And now to get into the main topic, you know, talking about dealing with family or friends or reactions, I wanted to share, you know, a story, because you know, not a personal story, but actually one whereby I actually came across an individual who embraced Islam.
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I had several conversations with him.
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It was a young Filipino guy in Jeddah and Alhamdulillah, you know, he embraced Islam.
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But one of the things that actually, you know, started to trouble him and started to have issues with was that I think he told his family extremely early on in Islam, before he had even done much, and this was his family back home in the Philippines, and I think something happened, like his wife took his children and, kind of like, ran away and he couldn't get in contact and this, you know, severely affected him in terms of him practicing the religion, having second thoughts about the religion, and so I know this is something that previously you covered about Matt, but maybe you can just give us a bit of an insight in terms of actually it's because at the time sorry to cut back, but at the time we actually asked one of the scholars in Jeddah and he said that you know, actually he doesn't need to proclaim his Islam and to make it apparent to his family.
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It's better for him, if he knows that it's going to be an issue for him perhaps, to keep his Islam secret.
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At that point and I know this is something that you spoke about as well on your podcast previously, Right Matt, on your podcast previously.
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Right, matt?
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Yeah, absolutely.
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There seems to be a common misconception that when someone says the shahada, the testimony of faith to enter Islam and then become a Muslim, that they have to announce their faith, whether that is to their family or to their friends or even online.
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Some people do it and there is nothing, allahu a'lam, in the religion which says that someone has to proclaim their faith, or indeed tell anyone at all, because, at the end of the day, the shahada, the testimony of faith that you take, is between you and your Lord, it's between you and Allah Ta'ala and no one else has anything to do with it.
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It's you who's going to meet Allah alone In the hereafter and Allah is going to question you individually and it has nothing to do with anyone else.
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And there's an ayah in the Quran which speaks about the mu'min of al-firaun.
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There was a man who believed in musa and his da'wah believed in allah and followed musa in the time of firaun, but out of fear, out of fear of what the, the pharaoh, might do to him, he he hid his faith.
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He hid his faith.
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He would hide his faith, but allah describes him as mu'min.
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Allah describes him as a believer.
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So here we can take that it is allowed for someone to hide their faith, especially if there's going to be some sort of harm which may come from it.
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And also the famous hadith which is in Sahih al-Bukhari Abu Dharr the companion.
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He accepted Islam with the Prophet and then the Prophet said to him يَا أَبَى ذَرْ, أُكْتُمْ هَذَا الْأَمَرُ.
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He said, abu Dharr, keep your conversion to Islam a secret.
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Don't announce it.
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He actually commanded him not to say anything, abu Dharr, he said that he would pronounce it and he went out and he announced it to the polytheists in Mecca who proceeded to beat him severely.
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Point being is that the Prophet and may Allah be pleased with all of the companions of the Prophet the point being is that the Prophet, he told him to hide his faith.
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So it might even be an obligation.
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It might even be something that you have to do in certain instances.
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Yeah, yeah, I think that's an important point and it has to be weighed up in all different circumstances and I think, like you said, it's a common misconception because it's almost like people are pushed that.
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You know, I remember when I was first Muslim and I was working certain jobs, I would just go and like hide and pray, like in the I was working in a restaurant at the time.
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I would go, you know, I'd say, oh, I'm going to go fold some napkins, and there was like a little kind of laundry room and I'd go and pray there.
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So, you know, you have to gauge your circumstances.
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In some circumstances, maybe, if you know that you're going to invite uh kind of you know things that are going to throw you off, then maybe it's uh best to to leave it off.
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But on the other hand, I think when people become muslim as well, there's so much that we don't know as reverts, and especially in the first few days, that we kind of, we kind of and also the the kind of joy of embracing islam.
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People might, you know, come up to their family and say you know, I've become muslim.
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And I remember when I actually the the first person I probably told out of my friends and my family was my mother and, um, I remember she said something like oh, you know, she had a bit of a she.
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She's always been a bit of like, you know, a feminist one could say, not like an extreme one, but she said something along the lines of oh, I always thought Christianity was more feminine and Islam was more masculine, and that was like kind of her instant reaction.
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So it wasn't like a bad reaction in a way, but I guess it was kind of just her justifying it to herself and Alana's best.
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But maybe you can share some of your experiences as well.
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Let's bring in Carl.
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Carl.
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Have you got any?
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You know, can you remember any experiences when you first reverted?
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I think one thing as well is like is a tricky thing is that concept of what's too soon, because I think pretty much maybe not now, after 20-odd years, but I think at every major stage of my life I thought, oh yeah, if I knew what I knew now, I'd wait until now, and then a couple of years later.
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If I knew what I knew now, I'd wait until until now, and then, you know, a couple of years later.
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If I knew what I knew now, I'd wait until now, and then maybe even five years later.
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If I knew what I knew now, I'd wait until now.
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And I think, like you, you probably maybe now, in 20, in another 20 years time, I'll say the same thing if I knew what I knew now, I wouldn't wait until I was mus Muslim for 40 years.
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It's, it's, it's challenging, you know to uh, to know when.
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When do you know enough?
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And um uh, and also entering into different conversations and debates and and this sort of thing, and I think maybe yeah it's.
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It's just safer to just.
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If you do want to tell your family, just avoid the debating side of things.
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It's just informing them.
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This is what I know at the moment and just knowing where your limits are.
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I think just on that point.
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I think that's also like it's a kind of double-edged sword in the way that it's that zeal of when people first become Muslim and they've got, like a lot of you know, zeal for the religion and they really want to talk about it, but at the same time they've got a heavy lack of knowledge and therefore they get into situations where, with friends or family, after they just reverted, where they're like, yeah, they want to tell them everything and they want to show them stuff, but then they haven't really spent the time to go over all of the issues and at the end of the day, they may have friends or family who are also, you know, intelligent people who are going to come with curveballs that they haven't really thought about.
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yeah, maybe a lot of that you only get from experience anyway.
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So it's like, yeah, not just the knowing but but also the wisdom, and perhaps there is some wisdom that just can't be learned, it's experienced.
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And for myself, I didn't have to actually tell my family because they told themselves.
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How did that?
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happen.
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I had a I'm not sure you know, because I had a Quran in my room on top of the bookshelf and I had maybe a book about Islam somewhere in the bookshelf.
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I wasn't like under the bed maybe, but I wasn't having a huge library of Islamic books, it was two.
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And then we're at dinner one day, and I've probably been Muslim by this time at least nine months and the family were taught.
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My grandparents, my parents, were going oh, you know, when Cole goes to university, I never used to drink, even as a non-Muslim drink alcohol, and I can't remember one of my family members said oh, when he goes to university, he'll drink.
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They all drink at university.
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And my dad said no, you won't because he's Muslim.
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And so it was my dad that told everyone without me telling him.
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So he did the job for me.
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That's kind of made it easier in a way.
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Yeah, I guess, because I'm the sort of person that would be embarrassed to open up about anything personal.
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Anyway, that's just my nature.
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So, um, given the choice, I wouldn't probably tell him ever um but um.
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But then my dad did it for me okay, so that's interesting.
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What about yourself, matt?
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Is there any like memorable you, memorable person within your family, or maybe even friends, that you kind of had to break it to?
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so when I converted, it wasn't, it wasn't a shock to my, to my, my family, to my mum or anyone else, because I would follow my brother pretty much in anything that he would do, you know, uh, for better or worse.
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So, yeah, he, uh, he converted and about a year later I converted, but I didn't tell my mum, who was really the only family member who was around at the time in my life.
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I didn't tell her.
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I can't remember why I didn't tell her.
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I guess maybe I just didn't want a backlash, I didn't want any questions or anything like that, I just wanted to just, you know, be a Muslim and just carry on with life, really.
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But I think she put two and two together and one day she was just like you're a Muslim, aren't you, matt?
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yeah, I'm Muslim yeah, so, um, yeah, that was it really.
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It's that parental intuition, isn't it?
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Yeah, I think so.
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My mum.
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She was cool with it.
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She has always been of the opinion that whatever makes you happy makes me happy, which is kind of a dangerous way to look at things, but that's her philosophy.
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So as long as I was happy doing it, then she was happy.
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And then I can't remember if I told my dad or my mum told my dad.
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I can't remember, but yeah, my dad wasn't too happy about it, he wasn't around too much anyway, so I didn't really feel any of the.
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There wasn't much of a backlash because he just wasn't really around.
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And then after that I would no doubt go around telling all my friends and telling everyone that I know that I'm muslim.
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And you know I would get various reactions.
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Sometimes people would laugh, sometimes people would be you know the person who you think would be quite hostile and maybe rude about it.
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They would.
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They turned out to be some of the most accepting people there was.
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There was a famous guy in my town who was quite, quite an aggressive guy and quite hostile towards us particularly, and when we told him we were muslim, it's like yeah, you know, fair play, mate, fair play, like he had this.
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I don't know, it was kind of strange.
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We were like expecting you know, yeah, something to happen, but nothing did he like turned out to be one of the most accepting people.
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It's kind of strange yeah I think that that's uh, that's one of the interesting things about, you know, becoming muslim and islam in general, that sometimes the people that you really, really don't think of and this is true even if you look at, like the stories of the Salaf and the Sahaba it's like the individuals that you really thought like that individual will never, you know, come to Islam, like, for example, amr ibn Khattab, in comparison to, like the Prophet's uncle.
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You know that you thought would, you know, be more accepting and stuff, and I think you find that as well even in the reality of today.
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Sometimes there's these individuals that you think like.
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You know that you've had numerous members of parliament who are like part of that gert wilders, you know, uh, group, who are completely like, avidly against islam.
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I'm forgetting what the, the guy's who you know is quite well known now in the space and in Holland, who was like part of Gert Wilder's party.
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He converted to Islam.
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But then there's other people that you kind of like.
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They're kind of very friendly with Muslims and very nice to the Muslims and this.
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But if you ever kind of push them and said, well, why don't you just take that step and, you know, become Muslim, they'll kind of like, oh no, I couldn't possibly.
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And you know this and that and make excuses, which is?
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It's kind of an interesting phenomena in a way.
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So almost like what Matt was saying about the you know, as long as you're happy'm happy type of approach.
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I mean, when you're open-minded, then perhaps you don't really concern yourself with finding the truth so much.
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You, everyone's got their own way and that's fine.
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But maybe those people who are more firm in their beliefs, they've alive, they've arrived at them.
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Sometimes because it's because of blind following their ancestors or whatever, but sometimes because they actually have a conviction and believe in something and so they want to actually find something right and they believe that there's a truth and a falsehood and you know they want to arrive at that yeah yeah, um, this I'm gonna, I'm gonna cut short the, the, the main discussion now.
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Um, and I wanted to to bring a a story that I kind of saw recently in the news.
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I don't know if you guys have seen it as well not really necessarily news, but um, uh, there's this guy who's like, uh, he he's known as like some kind of like major hedonist.
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This guy like uh dan, uh, bilzerian or something like that oh the gambler.
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Yeah, the the gambler, exactly.
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So he's like the gambler, the the uh.
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I think they called him like the instagram king or whatever, and he was recently on, you know, an episode of um piers morgan where he's, you know, talking talking about the situation in Palestine, but also talking about his own personal situation.
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It's funny because a lot of the time, whenever he talks about Israel, you know, piers Morgan's always going oh so you hate Jews, do you?
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And like all this kind of stuff.
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But the thing I found interesting and relevant to our discussion today is, you know, he's actually been like looking a lot into islam because of you know, the research that he's been doing and also the fact that he was living this kind of life where he had all of the money he's got, like you know, a business that earns like 200 million dollars.
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He says in this episode of of um uh piers morgan that he sleeping with you know loads of women every single day.
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He was saying something like two to if he slept with two women in a day, it was a bad thing for him or something like this, and and he got to the point where it was like he just didn't feel fulfilled at all, you know by any of these things that he was doing and stuff like this, and so I think the whole situation in Palestine at the moment kind of must have grasped his attention and then he wanted to spread that.
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But then at the same time, he started to look into Islam.
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And the reason I thought this was relevant to now is do you think, if we look at now, there's a lot of people in this social media kind of space, whether it's someone like this, dan um or, for example, andrew tate or sneeko many of these people have kind of, like you know, come to the religion of islam, or islam is almost becoming more, uh, popularized.
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Do you think that, you know, nowadays it's kind of almost easier for people to embrace islam, or how do you think this has an impact on the people?
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I think, there's always been influential people around, I mean, even myself.
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The thing that like dropped as a seed of um about Islam was watching Muhammad Ali on Parkinson, many years before Piers Morgan was around.
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So it's so yeah, so you know maybe would you say it's not really.
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Yeah, so you'd say it's not really like a recent thing.
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You think that's always been there.
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Well, when I say always, I mean recent, in terms of, you know, birth of modern media since the 70s and the 60s, this type of sort of time that's fairly recent in the history of the big history of things, isn't it?
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Yeah, that's fairly recent in the history of the big history of things, isn't it?
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Yeah, I think.
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I think I can imagine it would be a lot more.
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Maybe easier in some ways, but also a lot more challenging in this age.
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Easier in the sense that there's a lot more access to information, Social media, everything online.
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When we accepted islam I became muslim in 2005 like people weren't really online like that.
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There wasn't any social media and the only information you got about islam was whatever some muslim told you, whether that was in the form of the book or whatever.
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So access to information is a lot better now.
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So it is a lot easier to access information, look up issues and this and that and get in contact with Muslims and learn the religion as well online.
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So there's definitely a lot more going on, which is a good thing, so it's a lot more easier.
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But I would also say that it's a lot more challenging in that you know, social media has made the world a whole lot smaller and if someone was to announce their faith online, then you would get a huge amount of support from the Muslim community and maybe non-Muslims as well, but you'd also get a huge backlash from non-Muslims and people who are hostile towards Islam.
00:23:24.230 --> 00:23:41.611
So, yeah, I can imagine it must be a lot more challenging, especially for people who are who are prominent on social media, people who have announced their announced their faith to to the world I can imagine it can be like extremely challenging, like dealing with that much, that much feedback on what you've done.
00:23:41.611 --> 00:23:46.027
You know that many comments and you know all that, all the stuff that comes with it.
00:23:46.027 --> 00:23:46.989
It must be extra.
00:23:46.989 --> 00:23:47.309
I can't.
00:23:47.349 --> 00:24:00.161
I can't imagine what it's like yeah and, like you said, that access to information comes with access to misinformation as well, I mean when I when I had to answer things from my family or friends.
00:24:00.161 --> 00:24:04.669
They're pretty fairly basic things like just like why did you become muslim?
00:24:04.669 --> 00:24:07.476
And like whatever was in the news at that time.
00:24:07.476 --> 00:24:20.898
But now someone will come to you pretty fully armed with a load of um misconceptions and with backed up references for their misconceptions as well.
00:24:20.898 --> 00:24:21.859
You know supposedly.
00:24:21.859 --> 00:24:22.500
So it's uh.
00:24:22.500 --> 00:24:25.307
Yeah, like you say, it's a new challenge.
00:24:27.412 --> 00:24:32.951
Yeah definitely, yeah, definitely Okay, um, yeah, thanks for weighing in on that, guys.
00:24:32.951 --> 00:24:37.867
And and now, uh, just a little trial section that I'd like to try with you guys.
00:24:37.867 --> 00:25:01.777
Okay, so, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do like some word association I'm gonna give, I'll, I'll give you individually, I'll go for Matt and then Carl and then, um, again, I'm just going to give you one word and I just think, in terms of this episode, in terms of dealing with friends and family and reversion, just the first thoughts off the top of your head in relation to that word.
00:25:02.076 --> 00:25:25.176
Okay, so the first word for Matt is sabr, or patience not reacting to the things that family members and friends might say to you.
00:25:27.097 --> 00:25:27.939
Okay excellent.
00:25:28.719 --> 00:25:41.990
Take a few breaths, take it in, analyze and internalize what they've said and then think about a suitable response with patience.
00:25:41.990 --> 00:25:44.615
Don't just react to whatever these people have said to you.
00:25:46.338 --> 00:25:49.973
Excellent and call da'wah.
00:25:53.724 --> 00:25:54.008
With knowledge.
00:25:54.008 --> 00:25:54.473
I guess, yeah, excellent.
00:25:54.473 --> 00:25:54.959
With knowledge.
00:25:54.959 --> 00:26:09.332
I guess, yeah, excellent, that we're making sure that you, you know what you're giving that were to and know what you're calling to learn before doing so excellent.
00:26:10.133 --> 00:26:11.994
Uh, matt awkward.
00:26:16.240 --> 00:26:17.741
Matt awkward, wow, okay.
00:26:17.741 --> 00:26:24.729
Yeah, there have been a few awkward situations.
00:26:24.729 --> 00:26:32.680
I would say don't make you, being a Muslim, more awkward than what it needs to be.
00:26:35.310 --> 00:26:38.192
Yeah, you be, yeah Excellent.
00:26:40.605 --> 00:26:45.949
Sorry, maybe we can go into more detail in future episodes, but I would say, don't make things more awkward than what it needs to be.
00:26:47.693 --> 00:26:48.175
Yeah, great.
00:26:48.175 --> 00:26:50.191
What about Carl?
00:26:50.191 --> 00:26:53.430
I'll go for identity.
00:26:55.054 --> 00:26:55.756
Identity.
00:26:55.756 --> 00:26:56.577
That's a big one.
00:26:56.577 --> 00:27:08.757
I've gone blank because in many ways Islam was an identity for me when I didn't have an identity as much.
00:27:08.757 --> 00:27:14.852
So, yeah, it's one of the reasons.
00:27:14.852 --> 00:27:20.740
One of the emptiness that I had before Islam was identity emptiness.
00:27:20.740 --> 00:27:25.115
So Islam can give you an identity.
00:27:25.115 --> 00:27:32.598
But then it doesn't necessarily have to take over your identity, but it does become part of your identity.
00:27:34.210 --> 00:27:35.105
Excellent, excellent.
00:27:35.105 --> 00:27:40.230
And just the last one then I'll give to Matt, or maybe Carl.
00:27:40.230 --> 00:27:42.644
You can think about as well, is mercy.
00:27:48.556 --> 00:27:59.634
Be merciful to yourself as a Muslim, and that is by learning from authentic sources and implementing what you learn as a Muslim, and that is by learning from authentic sources and implementing what you learn.
00:27:59.634 --> 00:28:05.230
Be merciful to your family by not being too harsh with them.
00:28:05.230 --> 00:28:08.549
That's what I would say to your family and friends.
00:28:08.549 --> 00:28:18.771
Have mercy on them by not being harsh with them and dealing with and dealing with them in in the best way excellent, carl.
00:28:18.791 --> 00:28:20.096
Do you want to weigh in on that one quickly?
00:28:20.898 --> 00:28:23.086
I definitely echo the being merciful with others.
00:28:23.086 --> 00:28:31.369
Many times I speak to friends and they're saying um, you know, I spoke to my wife and she doesn't want to do xyz.
00:28:31.369 --> 00:28:34.414
Well, last week you didn't want to do xyz either.
00:28:34.414 --> 00:28:39.130
So you know, show that same mercy to to and time.
00:28:39.130 --> 00:28:43.798
Give them time to to come along excellent, excellent, thanks, guys.
00:28:43.817 --> 00:28:46.510
So, um, yeah, we will, uh, continue.
00:28:46.510 --> 00:28:50.301
Inshallah, not next saturday, but the saturday afterwards.
00:28:50.301 --> 00:28:53.611
Uh, we'll be uploading this definitely to youtube.
00:28:53.611 --> 00:29:00.325
We'll see if we can upload it to Instagram as well, and every time we're going to come up with different topics, different ideas.
00:29:00.325 --> 00:29:27.797
So if there are people watching as well who have any questions for either of my co-hosts, or they have questions about the topics that we're discussing, about converting or reverting to Islam, and they want to weigh in, feel free to always comment and, you know, share any questions you have, whether it's on YouTube or Instagram as well, and we'll be happy to answer any of those questions.
00:29:27.797 --> 00:29:34.432
We'll be doing it the same time in another two weeks, although we're about to go over time.
00:29:34.704 --> 00:29:37.134
We do have Tommy who's got a question.
00:29:37.134 --> 00:29:45.996
He says what advice would you give to someone who is shy of being open about the religion in front of non-Muslim relatives?
00:29:45.996 --> 00:29:57.009
I mean, we've kind of discussed this, tommy, but if you want to just give a quick 10, 20 second advice, guys, maybe Matt first and then Carl, just quick 10 seconds before we close up the episode.
00:29:57.009 --> 00:29:59.575
Inshallah, 10 seconds.
00:29:59.575 --> 00:30:02.279
Yeah, quick advice.
00:30:02.279 --> 00:30:07.854
I mean, tommy, we hope you watch the beginning of the episode, because a lot of advice was given already, right.
00:30:10.686 --> 00:30:12.605
Yeah, I have a lot more to say to Tommy.
00:30:12.605 --> 00:30:19.892
Hopefully we can answer that in the next episode or we could somehow get a message to him.
00:30:19.892 --> 00:30:22.537
That would be good, okay excellent.
00:30:23.178 --> 00:30:25.228
All right, it's not enough, tommy.
00:30:25.228 --> 00:30:35.182
We're going to hold your question and and deal with it, maybe at the beginning of the discussion next week, um, after, not next sat, but the Saturday after.
00:30:35.182 --> 00:30:45.914
And I'd also advise Tommy to go back to the beginning of the episode and look, because we did somewhat go into a bit of detail about this topic and so, yeah, that's all from me.
00:30:45.914 --> 00:30:52.451
Here I've been Ed, and with my co-host, matt and Carl.
00:30:52.451 --> 00:30:54.526
Thank you very much for joining us.
00:30:54.526 --> 00:30:57.364
We'll see you again, hopefully in two weeks time.
00:30:57.364 --> 00:30:58.963
Assalamualaikum, warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh.
00:30:59.986 --> 00:31:01.327
Assalamualaikum Warahmatullahi.
00:31:01.347 --> 00:31:02.569
Wabarakatuh Assalamualaikum.