Pause Before You Send:The WAIT Framework for Clearer Messages, Stronger Boundaries, and Less Burnout

Celina Glennon: Creativity is an act of leadership. In business, the true return on investment is not always found on a balance sheet. It lives in the culture you build, in the energy your organization carries, and in the way your clients and partners feel when they experience your company. These things are difficult to measure, yet they are often the greatest drivers of long-term success. As entrepreneurs, we choose a path defined by uncertainty. Risk is not something we avoid, it's something that we learn to navigate. But the real objective is not simply the pursuit of money. The real work is building people because the strength of an organization lives in the individuals who shape it, protect it, and carry its identity forward. I am Selena Glennon, the first female coach at the Elliott Group, and my work is centered on helping leaders cultivate creativity, develop their teams, and build cultures that create lasting impact. This podcast is a space for entrepreneurs and leaders who believe that businesses are not built by numbers alone. But by people, courage, and the willingness to create something meaningful. What you'll find on our show is these four categories: revenue through relationships, leadership and culture, hospitality as a business strategy, and intentional living. And if you believe that people are your greatest asset and relationships are your greatest investment, this podcast is for you. Welcome to Revenue from Retention. Today's guest is Miss Maddie Wagonier, the founder and CEO of Building Remote. Maddie is a literal human infrastructure partner and remote and a sync work expert who helps businesses unlock what their teams are actually capable of. And I love this because her work goes way beyond simply helping companies work remotely, but she looks at people, systems, and infrastructure behind a business and finds opportunities that are often sitting right in front of you. In fact, one of the examples that she shares is an assistant who helped launch a $500,000 revenue stream. So today we're gonna talk about what happens when you stop looking at your team as just employees and start understanding the full potential of people already inside of your business. Maddie, welcome to the podcast. I'm so excited to have you here today. Me too. Thanks so much for having me on, Selena. Yeah, I already have my first question for you. I thought about it this morning and I'm like, I always like to think of like, what's the first thing I'm gonna ask? Okay, so I wanted to ask you, has leadership always been a part of your life? And what I mean by that is like my my family is prior military. So like leadership was like I was born with it because my parents had it, because I was surrounded around other people because that that's how you moved up in a company was leadership abilities and taking initiative. So for me, like my parents didn't have an issue with me getting into leadership or not being a sheep and kind of following. They were always they always knew like, okay, Selena's gonna be good because she can kind of think independently. And so I often wonder for other people, was that something that has always been in you? Did something change in your life for you to be such a great leader? Or what did that look like in the past and what it is now? I love this question. Thank you. Like I told you before, I love your intentional questions. When I think about where leadership started, the example that comes to mind for me is actually when I was a teenager, where I realized that I felt lonely and like, I wasn't part of the cool crowd. I didn't really have a ton of friends. And so what I started doing is in the different places I was in at school, at my church's youth group in particular, I would look for the other people who looked like they didn't know anyone, who looked like they were by themselves. And I realized that I could be that person to go and like help myself by helping them and go and introduce myself and then introduce them to the handful of people I knew. And one of the funny stories actually that came out of the that. work, I guess I was doing at our youth group is 10 years later, the after the last time I had gone to the youth group, I ran into someone who had been new to the youth group, who I had introduced to some people. She had met her now husband there. And when she and I met, this is 10 years later or something, she's like, Yeah, we've got two kids. We've got another one on the way. And I'm like, wow, how transformational is that? Because I decided to deal with my fear in a creative way, my fear and my loneliness. That was the result. Wow, that is so what a great way to look at that. Like because of you, there's some babies running around now. You know? That's so cool. So now, okay, so so fast forward into now with what you're doing. How how have you helped people with human connection, especially like remotely, or what is it like? Let's just kind of get into what it is that you do and why you love helping people so much and kind of like deeping deeping further into that. Yeah. Well It's looking at all of the different pieces of like with a client when I'm working with a client. It's looking at who are all the people that are here? What are all the things we're trying to do? What are our goals? And starting to identify what are some of the things that within each individual is either like untapped potential or things that are holding them back. In some cases, I'll just have a conversation with someone and start to kind of suss out some things that are getting in the way of them being as effective as they could be. And you mentioned that story of the assistant who brought in or created a $500,000 revenue stream. I actually have multiple stories like that because what happens is in a lot of businesses, people don't think to meet with their team and start asking questions around what are you seeing that maybe I'm not seeing? Or what kinds of things do you think we could be doing more creatively? Or when you're doing your work, like what kinds of things are you seeing with clients that maybe is kind of setting your like spidey senses off? And you're thinking something might be happening with them that if we acted on it earlier, either we could keep them from leaving us as a client or it could help us to deliver even more value to them. But most people don't think to di dig dig into those things, but I do. And so I start to bring those things to the surface. And when I work with individual team members, I also coach them into things like awareness of paying attention to more things and then also starting to maximize their natural strengths. And A lot of times team members in particular haven't had the type of coaching that a lot of us entrepreneurs and founders have given ourselves because we've recognized that value. But for team members, they don't necessarily have the options or even maybe cash flow to prioritize those kinds of things. And so when I get into working with teams, it's almost like there's a lot of low-hanging fruit because that just hasn't happened for them yet. And so then when we start to really get into it, that's where we start to see opportunities like a 500K revenue stream that an assistant created who was originally hired just to do like calendar and email management. Like wild results can happen when we're intentional. I feel like, you know what's so interesting about what you just said is I feel like every company should have somebody externally that doesn't know anything, the the drama or the gossip or the politics or the you know, anything of it. It's so good to have somebody from the outside come in because you get a fresh set of eyes. And sometimes like that's actually the best thing you can help for company. Not more sales, not more marketing, but a fresh set of eyes to be like, it's actually your people that are disconnected. Mm-hmm. And there's so many nuances to remote work in particular too, around how people are connected, how information is visible. I talk about the three defaults of remote work. The first one is that by default, things are invisible. And so we need to make them visible. The second is that there's friction everywhere. And what I mean by this is like you and I, for example, if we're working together, we have different ways of approaching life and the world based on our past experience, maybe our upbringing, or the way that we even look at like a single document. We might just approach it differently. And when we have people in an organization like that, it creates friction. And then because of those things, I see I've seen this for the last 15 years I've been in remote companies where things naturally move from order to disorder. So things get chaotic. And because these things are remote defaults, the way that I like to explain this to people is if they're having issues with these areas, it's not their fault. It's just the default of remote work. And so when we start to think about connection, if nobody is aware of these three defaults, it's gonna continue to get in the way of connection and impact and efficacy of the things that either we're able to do in business or in other parts of our lives. Yeah. How did you s how did you get into studying humans? How did that? What do you what do you do to study humans? Actually, I should I know what I do. Like I've I'm very like aware and I have like books and flashcards on understanding people and the way that they move. What did have you like just studied it or like how how did you learn about human connection? Well, so my my background, some of my earliest jobs were in tech startups. And Being in those types of environments, you have to experiment and see what works. And then if it doesn't work, pivot. And then when you get new information, you have to pivot. And so there's a lot of paying attention to people and the different things that are working and not working. And so with that type of foundation, whenever I've been around people, I've just kind of observed and pivoted as I needed to. So for example, you know this, but I volunteer with young people through my church's youth group and through some other areas as well. And as I Did more experimentation, if you will, with just having conversations with them. I could see what kinds of things landed for them or what kinds of things worked and didn't work. And because I've been doing this with my work for 15 years and just being around people in general for, you know, a long time. when you pay attention and are very intentional with the questions you ask and paying attention to how they react, it helps to develop this type of Framework for how I approach conversations and how I then can use that to create connection between others. I love that. What do you do to make as a like you're a you're you're a team translator, human translator? What do you do to make people feel seen and heard? Like what's if somebody's listening to this and they're running a business, whether it's in tech or it's a it's a coffee shop. And they have two locations with a couple baristas. Like, what's the first thing that they should be doing as the business owner to make their teams feel hard? Because you got you gotta think about it. Like the business owner, they're the one funding the cups, the coffee, the the caramels, the syrups. But then you got, you know, a 25-year-old girl that's slaving away, you know, picking up these big old jugs of milk and stocking them up and having to do all the manual hard work while while the business owner is kind of doing other work. So What is that first step? What does that look like? What should the owner or management leadership do to make people feel seen? Hmm. Good question. It starts at the foundation of creating trust and respect. And one of the best ways I think you can do this is by saying hi to the person every time you see them and using their name and then paying attention to the things that they do well. And then when there's something that you want them to improve because you already have that baseline, you can say, hey, like I saw you did it this way. This is how we actually want to do it here. and this is why, and always explain the why to them. So, even just in those small interactions from when they start, that's how you start to create trust. And then the next thing I would say is ask really intentional questions and then listen. Don't try and interject and just ask the question and let them talk. Because very, very few people have had bosses or mentors, mentors in general, but a lot of us have had toxic bosses. Very few of us have had a multiple bosses who would sit and ask questions and listen intently to what we're saying and then f ask follow-up questions. When I come into a conversation with someone, I'm often looking for I'm just gonna start with this question and I'm gonna pay attention to what they say. And then I'm gonna follow up with another question related to their answer. And just kind of continued. Yeah. I want to ask you question onto that. Do you ever leverage social media to help you also find answers, like look them up online or like people that you're working with? Do you ever do that? I haven't done it as much. I've had clients who do. For me, I've been more historically in the background of things and haven't had a huge presence. so it's just not something that I've used a lot, but I have used friends, I've used networks like I've been a mastermind that is really excellent. And So I've used those types of resources, but not necessarily social media. Social media also, while sometimes it can be helpful, I think sometimes you don't necessarily know the background of individuals. And so their answers could potentially be flavored by whatever their experiences have been. for an example, there was I remember reading a comment from someone who was really angry about whatever was happening in this particular. It happens. Yes, it happens. And I saw a whole bunch of people reacting and agreeing with that person. And then I saw another comment where they were explaining their background. I'm going, that's why. It's because of this one particular situation. And so it's it's your answer is flavored by that, which is fine. But in some cases it can actually send people in the wrong direction. which is why when I'm trying to have conversations with people, I'm just trying to understand. I'm not trying to interject or coach, but I'm trying to really see where they're sitting, like going back to the like 25-year-old in the coffee shop. For that type of person, if I were advising that person's boss, I might say, I want you to ask curious questions about why did they want to apply here? What other jobs did they apply for? What types of things are they studying? Or what do they want to do down the road? Someone who's working in a coffee shop isn't necessarily going to be there for 20 years. Some people might be, but to have intentional questions asked about like about that helps them to understand that you're invested in their growth and their progress. That's so important. Anybody that's listening to this. Like just take back exactly what Maddie just said. A 25-year-old working part-time at a coffee shop probably isn't gonna be there for the next 20 years. So it's like, what are their goals? Are they trying to pay off debt from college? Is it something is it a summer job? Like w what's the point like why are they working? What's the trade for the money that they're gonna receive? Like what is that gonna go towards? I think it's so important. Napoleon Hill talks about it. The faster that you can help other people get what they want, they're gonna help you get what you want. And that's all that you're doing when you're talking to people is the faster that you can help understand them and get them more results, well, the quicker that they're gonna refer you to other people and say, hey, you need to learn Maddie's holding space framework of what she does. And so that's my next question is walk me kind of through your holding space framework in in like real time. So like when you're in a hard conversation, what do you do like in the first five minutes? And it's uncomfortable and like you kind of just don't want to have one of those conversations. What do you what what is it like? I'm also I need a the my my go to next book that I have to read is Crucial Conversations. Did we talk about this? Crucial conversations we did this is so funny. gosh. just gut me out like a fish. I got essentialism down, but I'm just yeah. Anyways, continue. Please answer. Yeah. there was someone I once had a con a conversation with where there was some conflict. And I'm not gonna share details because I'll just keep it vague. Sure. but we we we had a conflict and in this conversation I walked away from it feeling like I didn't like how that went. And this this was kind of earlier on when I was starting to figure out how to have crucial conversations. And so I thought about it and I kept sort I kept thinking about it, and I was thinking, you know. I don't want to leave this the way this is. I want to lead. And so I'm going to go and seek this person out and have a conversation. And I actually use crucial conversations. One cheat code for you is to just use AI and say, This is the situation. Help me use the crucial conversations framework to prepare for it, which is what I did. Yeah. So this this wasn't overly long ago because I was using AI. but I've gotten much better at this over the last few years. And so I went into this conversation and I said, you know, I feel like we didn't have. the best conversation last time. And I know that this person that we were talking about that we were having conflict over, that we both want the best for this person. And I think we were just coming at it from different directions, but I think we both have good points. So I would really love to hear how did you walk away from our last conversation? And what how would you like to walk away from this conversation today? And by opening it up like that, the other person I could see when I walked in, she's like tensed up a little bit. But when I asked that question, she just relaxed. And notice how intentional I was with what I communicated. This is how I was feeling. And I asked her a question that was centered on essentially a shared goal, which is following the crucial conversations framework. So sharing my story and then talking about our shared goal, then asking her an intentional question, it totally diffused the tension that started when I walked in the room. And we were able to have a very constructive conversation and create a plan for how to go forward. Wow. You think you think a lot of it comes down to hiring, like people hiring incorrectly, which leads to bad culture, no respect. Do you feel like that's the root of it? Is the hiring process? Yeah. I've done a lot of hiring for clients before and and for myself. And oftentimes I see I've seen so many clients where they just hire the person that's in front of them. They haven't actually created clarity or on what specifically they need in the role. They haven't mapped out the type of expertise level they need and they just hire someone who is in their orbit. And then because they haven't done that mapping and then tried to find the person who actually will fit what the company needs, it creates this culture of like just misalignment. And then the other thing that I look for when I'm hiring is I'm looking for drive and growth oriented people. And generally when I was about to ask you that, yeah. What are you looking for? Yeah. So those are the two main things. I'm obviously looking for like skill set and whatnot too, but I've found that when I look for those two things, I am continually able to identify candidates who have a high potential or a potential for high performance, even if they're like directly out of school. Or I just hired someone for a client recently who had never worked for a US company before. He's based in another country. He almost didn't apply. And the interview he had with me was the first ever interview he'd ever had with a US based company. And I said, Well, you should always apply. And he got the job. And I've talked to his that client of mine. It's been about three months since he came on. And he said he's phenomenal. He needed some coaching at the beginning, but he's not cool. Do you do you feel like people who are, I say international as in not United States citizens, do you feel like they're more coachable and more open-minded and more eager to work because of opportunity here versus there? And culturally, it like It's, you know, it's yeah, work is look I feel like a lot of people in the United States feel like entitled. So do you find have have you ever noticed that or do you feel like people or maybe they are a US citizen, but their their nationality is something else, or maybe their parents migrated to the US, you know, later in life. Do you do you find any difference in that? Yeah, you know, it's interesting because I do see some general out generalities, but there I've hired a lot of people in the US that have this kind of driven, growth-oriented nature. There's one person, this was gosh, eight years ago I hired someone directly out of college. He'd only had a couple of internships, nothing else. And I knew that he was going to be impactful. And he essentially created all these automations and replaced himself, like his job by everything that he set up. And then he became just a fixer in the company to go and fix stuff. And so I don't know that it's necessarily background. It could be. there are some cultures where I've seen they're less likely to push back on you. So for example, if I'm hiring an assistant for a client, I'm generally looking for someone who has at least some ability to push back on them. Because if they're expecting to challenge them. Yeah. Yeah. Or pushing back if let's let's say I'm the client. And I have an assistant and I say, I really want to protect these days. Let's say Tuesday and Thursday. I don't want to ever have calls. And then I send a message to the assistant like a week later saying, book a call on Tuesday. I want that assistant to push back and say, No, you said you didn't want to have calls on Tuesday and Thursday. Because I might forget that. And I might think in the moment, it's fine. But you need to have people on your team who are willing to push back and hold that accountability. Because if you don't, especially being entrepreneurs, we have. Most of us have shiny object syndrome or shiny idea syndrome. And so we want to chase after the idea that's exciting to us. We need team members to push back on us and say, okay, great. I'm happy to help take that on for you. What would you like me to take off of my to-do list in order to make room for this? We need that kind of questioning and pushback. And if you're hiring team members that are just yes men, you're not gonna get that. Yeah. Maddie, you know what you're really good at? What? You're really good with boundaries. Hmm. You're really good with boundaries. I feel like bet better than me. I guess I'm comparing you to me. And that's something I'm currently working on in my life right now. Because I was was a a yes man for a really long time. And I'm learning boundaries are good, and you are not responsible for other people's happiness. And you know, like there's only so much that you can control. And You have to have boundaries. And I'm just I'm assuming that, you know, your 15 years of experience, like you've had to have some boundaries here and there, whether it's with, you know, your kids or or that overbooking on a Tuesday. and and then that ties back into essentialism. And then that ties into crucial conversations of like, no, we need Tuesdays open. But I can tell that you've really worked well on boundaries for yourself. Do you mind if I share what I've learned? Yeah, tell me. D like give me all the juice. I want all of it. I'm gonna replay this for myself five more times after. Awesome. Okay, so I can't remember. Have you read the book Atomic Habits? Yes. Amazing book. We have it downstairs. Is it it's a golden white cover, right? It's like golden white. I think it is. It's like I it's first and white. But it's black, black, black is it, and then it's a white white cover, I think. Anyways, doesn't matter. Continue. So there's a a quote that he has in the book, and I I might be slightly off with this, but he talks about that every action you take is a vote towards the person you're going to become next. And you can either be very intentional about that and go on the path towards the person you want to become, or your actions can be taking you elsewhere. So I kind of start with that idea of let's start ourselves there. And we mentioned this in a previous I mentioned this to you in a previous conversation. We were talking about this, where I then look at one decision for a thousand future ones, which is from the book Essentialism. And when we think about the person that we want to be, for example, if I want to be a present parent, one of the ways that I can be intentional and make one decision for a thousand future ones is have a particular time of day when my kids are home from school and we're doing dinner and bedtime and everything where I leave my phone elsewhere. And part of what has actually helped with me being very comfortable with leaving my phone wherever is turning off a whole lot of notifications. I don't have notifications on for email or for Slack. It's basically texting and calling and like a couple of the other apps I use for my day-to-day life. And by having turned off all those notifications, it has drastically reduced my attachment to the device because it's not giving this like feedback. loop, this addiction loop of I need to check it. There's notification. Ding, ding, ding, ding. Exactly. Exactly. So because I made that decision, because I so again going back to the person I want to be, being a present parent, I've made this decision. I turned down the notifications, then I have the schedule. So they kind of feed into each other. That helps make it easier for me to be present. And I've noticed that since I turned down the or turned most of my notifications off, I feel mentally so much more free. Which means that I'm then spending my mental and emotional energy on the things that actually matter, like asking my kids intentional questions or asking the teens I'm around intentional questions or my clients or people I'm meeting in a networking call and I pick up things and then give them feedback on it, which does happen when I do networking calls. But what I would challenge you to think about is who is the person you want to be? And if you're struggling with being like a yes man, what are you looking for when you say yes to someone? And when you say yes, is that aligned with the person you want to be? If it is aligned, okay, cool. But if the answer is no there, then maybe your answer needs to be a no. Another thing that's helped me with saying no to people is when say someone texts me and asks me to do something, I don't respond right away. I generally wait until the next thing. my gosh. You're I tell I'm telling you, you're like the female version of my husband. Like it is just so and it's I swear it's because all the same stuff that we read. He is so I I'm separate, Maddie. I'm like, gotta clear out the text, gotta clear out the text, got you know, and he's like, Selena, like you don't have no. They're asking you where the microwave is at, cause the other one broke. They're an adult. They'll find like the microwave at the office. They'll figure it out, or they'll go buy another one, or they'll they'll eat their food cold. And I'm like, no, but then they're not gonna get their nutrients for their lunch. He's like, they're fine. They're they're grown men, they're fine. And I'm like, and he's like, No, you don't need to like and it's it's so crazy that you say that because I'm like he got a text the other day and I'm like, Were you gonna answer it? One of our good friends texted him and he goes, I will. I will in a few hours, but I'm here with you and I he he can wait. So sorry, I just wanted to to to capitalize on that, continue, because I yeah, am getting better at that. Okay, so why do you do that? Why what makes you like you can wait later? I had realized that my yes men yes man tendencies had developed this expectation for other people that I would respond right away. when I was much younger, and in the early stages of people starting to get married, I literally had a friend tell her mom that Maddie is gonna be the first person to RSVP and I was. That was the expectation that I had set because of that. I don't have that expectation for myself anymore. I have no desire for that to be who I am. I have other things that I want to be, like being a present parent. And so other adults are going to need to wait. Certain people, if they call me though, they know that I will answer if they call once or call me twice because we mostly have, say, like a texting or in-person relationship. They know that I'm available in the case that they have an emergency, but that's because I've changed the expectation of most of the people in my life. And for other people who haven't respected boundaries all that well, that's also part of the reason why. I wait until say the next day to respond to messages because I don't want to give the expectation in them that I am responsive and always available to them. Wow. See, I've been opposite, but now I'm changing. Like I I've been responsive a hundred percent of the time and fast and get back. And I I think for so long I crave like this is why I love podcasting, because I get a therapy selfishly, I get a therapy session for myself. Because I I've always wanted to be like counted on or like reliable. Like to me, it makes me feel good that I'm your most reliable friend than all your other friends, because I'll always be there for you. And I'm like, but then who's there for me? Like I'm not even there for me because I'm trying to be there for a thousand other freaking people. And then it's like, what am I even really living for? Other people are like myself. It's wild. It's crazy. Mm-hmm. And It actually reminds me, I have a framework that I teach to client teams in particular that I call the wait framework. And it's actually what I say it's intentional friction to make them pause before they send a message because nobody really stops and thinks before they send a message to someone else. They have a thought and they're like, I'll just send it off real quick because we're so used to that like direct message structure that we just send it off without thinking. So And you can use it on the other side too. Before you send a message, before you respond, you can go through this framework. So it's W A I T Y Audience Information Timing. So W A I T. So the Y is why am I sending this message? There was something recently in my personal life that I became aware of and I was like, why am I sending this message? Do I actually need to send it? And I evaluated it and I said, actually, I think this is kind of urgent. I do need to send this. So you can go through and kind of think through. So if you have someone asking you for something, like with the microwave, why am I sending a response back? Why? And it just helps to kind of pause and think through that. The second thing is audience. Who am I speaking to? Who is receiving this? So in a business context, if I'm teaching this to a team member, I'm having them think about, okay, you're sending this to your boss. What do they care about? Do they want to see your 10 page document or do they want to see just the paragraph that you want feedback on? And how much context do they need? And what else are you telling them about when you need this buy so that they understand how they need to prioritize it and how long it's going to take them? Which is kind of previewing the T, which I'll get to in a second. So that's audience and information. I just kind of highlighted a little bit. Information is about what exactly needs to be included and what shouldn't be included. And then T is timing. Most people, when they are sending messages in particular, do not set expectations around timing. They don't say, Hey, I have a deadline this Friday, so I really need you to send this to me by end of day Thursday. So W A I T, Y audience information and timing. Do you think it's it's also good to set an expectation that Hey, I'm backed up a week. So this project, even though I know you're putting it on my desk today, it's probably not gonna get done until another week. Is that like fair? As yeah, you know, setting the expectation? Yeah, that kind of thing is actually something I do a lot of coaching on with team members, is they feel like because let's say their boss sent them a message, hey, I need you to do this thing, they immediately feel like they have to drop everything else to do it. And that's one of the issues with remote work, is the By default, things are invisible. The boss doesn't see that reaction or their think, their thought process as they're receiving that message. And so when bosses, let's say, communicate or delegate something, they can say, this is not urgent or it is urgent and I need you to drop everything else to do this. If like one or two extra sentences helps to give that clarity, that then helps the other person to be able to act accordingly. Same thing for the team member, which is they like they need to be able to push back a little and say, Great, I'm happy to take this on for you. Just so you know, I'm going to be. like back a week or or I'm pushed back a week because of everything else going on. If you want me to prioritize this, I'm gonna have to let this other stuff slide. What would you prefer I do? And it opens up this conversation, but nobody talks this way. We don't talk this way in our personal relationships or in our work relationships. Yeah. Intentionality. So true. I'm gonna start doing that. I'm gonna start throwing the timing in right now too, or like, you know, being able to to share that. I think that's really important. I I love podcasting too because you just get so many other people's perspectives. And they're like your story is different than my story and your background and you know, where you live and like what you believe in and Listen, I don't even want to talk about your kids right now because that they're gonna be superstars when they get older with all this. Like, I can't even imagine how like I can't even imagine how ambitious like your kids are, how creative and colorful that they probably see the world and you know, because they they get that from you. And I think that that really comes from like knowing who you are and developing yourself and and knowing what's important to you and I remember when I was in my early twenties and I was, you know, in and out of dating and everybody would tell me like you can't love another guy or you can't fall in love with another guy unless you fall in love with yourself first. You gotta love you first. And I just never understood that because you just when you're young, you don't know it's like it's funny when you're eighteen you think you know everything, and then when you're like twenty two, you don't know anything. And it's like, What in the Jesus' name? Like, how did this happen? How did we get here that you thought you knew it all, then you don't, and then you're like lost in the world and You know, it's all about navigating and learning and how how do you help guide somebody with what they want in life? And is there an exercise that you do or or it doesn't have to be, you know, a framework, but like how do you get people to help them decide what's important to them and what do they want to accomplish? 'Cause you know, everybody's in a different stage in life. So what if what do you do for that? Hmm. Good question. I ask a lot of really curious questions and then I'd be quiet, going back to our earlier conversation. I I've heard people tell me that I have a unique ability to hear things that people say and be able to create connection between other things that they say. And I'm sure that a lot of therapists have this skill as well. I joke with my clients, some of them have said, this feels like therapy. And I say, I'm not a therapist, I'm not licensed, I've just gone through a lot of therapy myself and I've had a lot of conversations. So I know how to do this stuff. but yeah, being able to ask those intentional questions and say, you know, okay, so you say earlier, if you want to do this with you, we can. If you don't want to, we also don't have to. But yeah, we can do it. Okay. Okay. I would ask you. So you said that you wanted to be what did you say, a reliable and responsive person? Or those were those. Yeah, like a friend. Yeah. Yeah. Responsive, reliable, like that's what I want to be known for, always there for you. Okay. So where did that belief and desire come from? question. I think I think that in that's I think I started sales. I'm totally cool. I'm totally cool with it. I think I got into sales when I was 18 years old and it felt really good because I don't think I got like the love and acceptance as much as I did when I was a kid. So like being in sales and being really good at sales, recognition became really addictive for me. And I'm like I love this because I get attention, you get awards, you get shouted out, like you you feel like seen, I guess. And like there's an ad there was like an ad there was, I'm letting go of that now, but there was an addiction to that. Sorry, what was your original question again? Where did the like belief and desire for the responsiveness? so in order for me to get all that status and everything. And like number one, well, you have to be on top of everything. You have to respond to emails, text messages, phone calls. Like to be number one, you gotta drop everything and be there for people, customers, bosses, everybody. Okay. So what has changed from that time in your life to now about how you need to behave to succeed? I think my priorities have changed. Because it just used to be about me and now it's not just about me. Cause we're trying to start a family. And also, I don't care about that anymore. Like I used to they used to be important to me. It's like it's like when you're 16, the only thing that's important to you is making it to prom and getting somebody to ask you to go to prom. And then like when you're eighteen and you already graduated high school, like that doesn't matter anymore, you know? Like these phases in your life. And so I feel like now because I'm older, like I don't even care about that because I care about Getting pregnant. I guess that's the best way to put it. The most, you know, yeah. Best way to put it out there. Yeah. Okay. So then if we start to look at the future version of you, being a spouse, a parent, a business owner, podcast host, and anything else you are in your life, can you describe who that person is and the types of things that she would do? Yeah, definitely like nutrition is first, making breakfast every day, drinking three Stanleys a day per the doctor. being able to have the ability to sit more in silence, I feel like, is what I would like more. and enjoying doing things instead of rushing to do the dishes, rushing to be someplace, hurry up. Like I got to take my time this morning and I'm like, no, I'm gonna slow down. I'm gonna make the bed and I'm gonna make a cup of coffee while I'm making the bed, and then I'm gonna take a shower, and then I'm gonna make some breakfast and then I'm gonna do this, and then gotta prep for Maddie. And then like I think enjoying the process instead of like, my gosh, already 30 minutes has passed and I'm losing time instead of like enjoying that time that I have for myself because I know that it's gonna be different when there are kids. It is gonna be a little bit more chaotic. So like I guess being present now and then and then when I do have kids being even more present. Like I'm trying to make sure I'm not addicted to this thing to to know like being there every single second from with my kids is more important than electronic device. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Okay. So what kinds of tools do you have available to you now, whether that be people or other things that you could use to create this kind of Like a a change plan for yourself of like actions that you need to change to start becoming that person. That's great question. Big friend group. I have a big friend group. no. Would you like some help with this one? Yeah. Yeah. So let's go. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So I like to ask questions because if there's something that pops to mind for you, like there's there's a lot of studies that say that when you come to the answer, it's more likely to stick and it feels like you own it. So I like to ask those questions first. And also you know more about your life than I do. So it's better for me to let you talk first if if possible. Now, if you get a little stuck, then I'm happy to help. So part of what I'm thinking about is who are the people that know you most. And know you best and have seen the ways that you maybe act by default and maybe things that are from your childhood or other parts of your life that maybe aren't so helpful. and then tools like AI, for example, we have the ability to use this tool now. So you can go and ask, I want to be less attached to my phone. What are some things that people have said statistically have worked for them? Like for me, I turned off the notification notifications. I got that idea from someone in my mastermind who said that he doesn't he doesn't have his notifications on, even for text messages. And he has a block of time at the end of his day where he will go through and look through messages. He doesn't get to it every day, but it's still on there. It's an intentional time for him to do that. So essentially, what I would encourage you to do is maybe spend a little bit of time to write down those things. And one way that I would actually encourage you to do this because you want to work on like embracing some slowness, which I've also wanted to do for myself, is maybe take like half a day or a day or however whatever time frame you want. To make this feel a little bit like a, for lack of a better term, luxurious exercise for you to go and get a drink that you like, maybe get a massage first or something, something like that, and take a hot shower and then journal and write out. Or if you like to talk, there's a lot of like AI note taker tools like granola, where you can just talk and it'll organize things for you or journal, whichever works best for you and figure out who you want to become. And then take that and share that with the people who care about you most, who know you most. And AI, you don't have to share all the details with AI, but enough of them and say, help me create a plan for what I want to do or who who I want to become and things I need to change in order to get there. I would probably start with AI. Think about that structure. Like vo voicing it or like hitting the record and just talking to it and going on and on and on. That way don't have to sit there and type. Good idea. Yeah. I actually use granola a lot for what I call riffs. So if I have an idea for like a piece of content, I'll do that. And then I'll mark it as a riff. And then Claude pulls that from granola and puts it into a database so I can go back and look at it later. there's personal things that I have in there as well. And so you can yeah, you can use it for that. And it's helpful for me because I would rather talk and then it organizes thoughts. Yeah, and and also you're getting it out, the the words are are coming out. Yeah. But you see, most people don't take the time to do this type of exercise. And it's something that I've seen with a lot of my clients and even with young people and people in my personal life where most of us don't stop to re-evaluate where we're at. So some of the questions I was asking you about the earlier part of your life to know, being able to reevaluate and check in on what's changed and where you want to go can help to drastically shift the direction of your life, the actions you take. This works in business too, works for team members too, because if they've taken on a lot of different work, we need to reevaluate their work. So for you, I would encourage you to create a simple, concise plan with AI and then share that with the people who care about you, who know you best, and ask for their feedback. You can do this in like Google Docs and just turn on the suggestion feature if they're familiar with that. Or they could do a Loom if they'd rather share just kind of like this. Yeah. Take this transcript, stick it in your AI and see this is what my husband said about me and what will or won't work, and then update the plan. And when you give people a document, they're not having to come up with things from just w like a white page, which you know, white pages can be hard to figure out. What am I writing? when they have something to give feedback on, it's easier for them. So we're thinking about the person on the other side, similar to what I was saying about messages earlier. We're thinking about making this easy for the other people people to give you feedback. And then you should be able to have a plan to run with from there. I like that. I took a note of this. Take a luxurious day. I love that. I Maddie, I don't know if I shared this with you last the last time when we had spoken, but I found a a big passion of mine that has really turned into something more than what I thought it would. It's one of those things where you're like, I love it so much that it would do it for free. And I'm literally doing it for free right now. And it's crazy because people have reached out. I I'm very, I'm very in tune with like God in the universe, like giving me feedback. Like it's very I'm I'm I'm aware and I've had a lot of people give me feedback of wanting more of my work. I started calligraphy and engraving. I don't know if I told you this last time that that we had spoken. And I got into it a year ago when my husband proposed to me in February of last year. I started going immediately into wedding planning. And because I was the wedding planner, I didn't hire one because I'm like, I can do all the things. It's literally another full time job. And it was international, so I had to like translate and it was a whole whole thing. But it that's like another full time job. And and I remember thinking like, what experience are we gonna give everybody? Like they're coming all the way out here. they're coming to Mexico, like a lot of people are getting on an airplane and then getting a rental car, and then driving down and like, you know, you're crossing the border. Like it's just there's so much to it. So I'm like, what are we gonna give as gifts? And I found myself, I was like, we can engrave things and customize all these things. And You know, after we got married, which was 90 days ago, my husband is like, You should create an Instagram account and like do this. And I'm like, nah, I'm probably not gonna do that. Like, my work's not good. And he's like, Yes, you should. And I'm like, Okay, I will. You know, when you start something, you don't want to put it on social media. And I did. And I gotta tell you, the feedback that I've been receiving from people is absolutely incredible of people wanting to be a part of that. And I feel like that luxurious day, I've been so fortunate that I have I have like four s four packages sitting to the left of me and then three to the right over here. And I have all this design work that I'm doing. And to me, it almost feels like it's a luxury day every day because I've been finding my me who I am in my work of being alone. And it's matches my personality because I get to be alone making it. It's like here in my home space, my comfort nesting zone. Of like what makes me feel really good. And so I like that you said that, like take a luxurious day, because I've been looking for that for a really long time. I've been trying to find the things that do make me feel that way, like going and getting a massage or getting my eyebrows done today, you know? So like I just I love that you say that. That is so important, especially as women, and even if you have kids too, like Well, I would say it's even more important if you have kids because what you do is modeling for them what they should do for themselves. And so that's something I think about a lot of should I do this? well, the the person I want to be would take care of myself, would make these choices, would prioritize X over Y. And I I literally am thinking about this all day about will this decision like recently I had a kind of frustrating day and I was just emotionally like, I don't want to go to the gym. And then it clicked back into my head of, the person that I want to be would go to the gym because I know it'll make me feel better and help me feel more capable to be able to do this stuff. And you know for me, go ahead. go ahead. No, no, no, go Maddie. I'm sorry. There's a bit of a delay. Go ahead. for me, I mentioned to you before, I had come out of recently a five year journey with debilitating chronic health issues. And so for me Being able to prove to myself that my body is physically capable of things it couldn't do a year ago is really important for me to for to me to have that feedback loop of I can handle this other stuff because I can now handle these other things. And it's just been an interesting psychological thing for me. So whatever that is for you, if you need to prioritize the luxurious and the peaceful and the calm, design that day for yourself. Put it on your one of the best tricks, honestly, to making sure you do stuff. Is making a recurring thing on your calendar and then like scheduling a text message to whoever your accountability partner can be and say, Hey, I'm doing this today. Please, if you get this message, please text me back and make sure I'm actually doing it. Like, so if I were to do this once a month for you, let's say you're gonna go get a massage once a month, and it's just like half a day in the morning, you're just gonna take a very luxurious morning. You put it on the calendar once a month. And then before, like when you put that on the calendar, you schedule a text to your best friend and you say, Hey, this is what I'm doing. And it's gonna send that morning. Please text me back and make sure I'm actually doing it to hold me accountable. And then that the next the day that you're actually doing the thing, doing the massage, you just schedule the next text. It's a trick that I actually learned from a friend of mine. When you're together, schedule the next time you're gonna get together because otherwise it'll be months and months or maybe even a year before you get together again. Yeah. Wow. That's powerful. That's so powerful. I can't I hope I get to meet you one day in person. I would love to do it we we're not that far apart. We we will make that happen. I know. One of my goals, one of my goals is to have like my own studio and I don't know what that looks like, whether it's like people make studios in their own home or like in their garage or, you know, a side room. I don't know like what that looks like yet. I don't know if I would wanna like buy a space or even renting it, but I wanna get like my own personal studio and would love to have you come and and and do it in person. yeah. Wow. That's so cool. Cause it's it and it's so crazy because what we're talking about right now is totally gonna change in like six months or a year or, you know, our lives are gonna be in different places and seasons are gonna change and I'm gonna have a baby and your kids will be older and just, you know, we'll evolve, you know. And as we begin to wrap up here, Maddie, any best piece of advice that you'd like to share with anybody listening to this? Might be a different way to answer this. But if you're questioning or if you're struggling, prioritize giving back to others. Because I've been serving with my church's youth group for the past three years and doing some other volunteering. And I was doing that while I was sick. And yes, it was hard. There were times where I was feeling wobbly. So I'd have to sit down and put my feet up while I was talking to someone. And I had to do that really regularly. But On the other side of that, I can see not only the impact I had because I was consistent, like I have story after story of young people, but I've been recently reflecting on how much it's impacted me and the way it's helped me see life differently, and even how it's made me better at what I do with my clients because of the conversations I've had and the ways in which I can inspire my clients by sharing how much volunteering has impacted me. So that's something I like to challenge a lot of entrepreneurs in particular to think about because we have so much to give to others and we ought we feel so busy sometimes. But if we can take an hour of our time once a month, once a week, how much impact could you have on some other people? Love that. Yeah, that's really special. That's what I love about what I'm doing now is like having the ability to give, or I guess volunteering, you know, my myself for gifts for other people. I think that's really important because you find yourself through that. And it'll give you more lessons than what you think. It'll give you more than what you'll give it. And that's the special part of life, you know. Maddie, what's the best way that people can reach you if they want to get some consulting done with you? Or have you helped their team with some hiring? how can people reach you? Yeah. So best way is actually, I would encourage everybody to take my assessment. So it's called the Liberated Leader Assessment. They can find it at liberated.building Remote.co. There is no at the end of that. Liberated.buildingRemote.co. What it's going to do is it's going to ask them very intentional questions and they will choose from a select option of multiple choice, very specific answers to help them think and become aware of some of the things that may or may not be going on in their business. And since that goes directly to me when they submit it, they'll also get those results and then be able to connect with me directly. I love that. Maddie, I think you are a total gift to the world. Like, you know how you know how like maybe your grandma or your Great uncle or somebody who's like, Do you see this? You see what this is? This is a thumbprint. You know what's crazy about a thumbprint? Nobody has it, but anybody else but you, because you're one of one. Girl, you are one of one. You are very, very unique. And I think the way that you just view the world is so pure in so many ways. And I just can't even imagine what your kids are like. And again, I'm saying it for the second time, like who they're gonna be when they get older, because as I've gotten older, I know that. developing me and the mistakes that I've made and the woman that I'm becoming is like just it's preparation for them. And I just know that you're gonna have so many blessings in the future that are going to come to you in so many ways through business, through people, through through your church, through y the youth. And I just I think in life I've learned like I don't want to be liked. I just want to be respected. You know, I want people to respect me for what I value and what I give. And I just want to share that with you that I really respect you and the the person of who you are and your gifts to the world because it you can make I I know people that make a ton of money and make really good money, but they're not good people. And you can tell somebody's good from right here because you can feel it shining on them through the inside. And all you know, some of the closest friends that I have and the greatest people that I have. are just the people that will always have their doors open with a glass of coffee or a pitcher of tea and you're always welcome to come in. And and I I listened to this podcast the other day and they were talking about, it was Gary Vee. He was saying at the end of your life, they no, no, no, it wasn't Gary V. It was Mel Robbins and a and a doctor from Harvard. They did a study from 1938 and they followed these children all the way until they were 80 years old. And when they were 80, they did this survey about asking them what were their regrets and what made them most happy. And they said that they regret not spending more time with family and their personal relationships. And what made them happy was not just relationships, but warm relationships. Actually being intentional with people. It was a great podcast. They did they even they did even like blood, you know, science has evolved since since 1938. So they've done blood testing. They've done DNA testing, they've they've tested their food, the way that they're disciplined and their household is just a crazy study. And I just think you're a light to the world. And I think you have so much to offer and you're just changing a lot of people's lives. And I know that you know that, but it's really good to hear from other people of the impact that you have on it because when you're in it, you're just so focused on this. but I I think that you just are very special and unique, and I'm really honored and grateful that. You know, you just spent this last hour with me to share your deepest thoughts to help the world become a better place. And that really means a lot to me. Thank you so much for sharing that really Selena. I I was thinking likewise, but it's not long enough for like how I like to respond to that kind of stuff. I actually was thinking as you were sharing that, I'm like, hey, she took my she took my tactic. Like I I like getting to share that way with people. And I actually so we were connected by Steve, a friend of ours, multi-mutual connection. And I was telling Steve, I said, Selena just brings this energy. When she shows up, like she is there. And I'm like, I love it. It's infectious. And so, like with what you were talking about with Instagram and what people were were sharing about the work that you're doing, it's infectious. Like the it's not just your like your energy doesn't just show up in these types of calls. It shows up in who you are. Like you were telling me about the tinsel in your hair and why you wear it and how you came to that conclusion and how important that is to bring, like you said, being a light in this world. You're embracing who you are and working, continuing to work on yourself and and peeling back the things that you don't want to be part of future you. And I I just love how open you are. And like I said, that energy you bring, it's it's infectious. And so with with the tinsel in your hair and with the different things that you're considering and you're working towards, like I want to encourage you also, because your openness and willingness to grow and to embrace. who you are, and also like create this space for other people to be excited and get to share their own stories and the things that are important to them and how they're having an impact has such an impact on so many people. And there's probably listeners who you've never met, who listen to your show, who have been encouraged because of how you run this show and how you ask questions and how you create a atmosphere for guests to come on and feel comfortable sharing and like this is a true conversation. And it's by far been one of the best. and most interesting and most enjoyable interviews that I've been on. So thank you. Let's go. Okay, everybody. Maddie said it. She called it. Let's go. Make this viral. No, I'm just kidding. Anyway. Well, thank you, Maddie, so much for sharing your story. And I I feel so grateful for you. And until next time when we shatter limiting beliefs, thanks Maddie. Thank you for tuning in today. If you're not subscribed yet, make sure you hit the subscribe and follow button. Also, if you're looking to share your story, be sure to click the link in the description and apply to be featured on the show.