OM DENNE EPISODE
Have you ever walked away from a conversation with your husband feeling like you are the one who is losing your mind — even though you know something is deeply wrong? That disorientation is not a personal failing. According to today's guest, it is often the most reliable signal that something far more serious than a communication problem or personality clash is at work.
In this powerful conversation, Leslie sits down with Dr. George Simon — internationally recognized authority on manipulation and character disturbance, and the man whose groundbreaking work first gave the world a name for gaslighting — to bring you the clarity so many women have been searching for. You will walk away understanding why character matters more than diagnosis, why confusion is a warning sign rather than a flaw, and what it actually looks like to love yourself and others well when you are living with someone whose character is deeply misaligned with love.
Key Takeaways
Character Disturbance Is Not the Same as a Mental Health Diagnosis — and the Difference Changes Everything
A person dealing with a genuine mental health condition, such as bipolar disorder, will typically respond to consequences with remorse, seek accountability, and cooperate with help. A character-disturbed person, by contrast, does not want to change — they like how they operate. Dr. Simon explains that the tactics most therapists and pastors were trained to use were designed for a completely different kind of struggle, and applying them to character disturbance is not only ineffective but can cause real harm. Understanding this distinction frees you from the exhausting and impossible task of trying to fix what only the other person has the power and responsibility to address.
Confusion in the Relationship Is a Warning Sign, Not Your Weakness
Dr. Simon introduced the concept now widely known as gaslighting long before it entered everyday language, and he explains here exactly how it works on the mind. When a manipulative person acts with apparent conviction — minimizing what they have done, blaming you for provoking it, and reframing reality with intensity and certainty — they create genuine doubt in someone who is already unsure of their own worth. The key insight is this: you are not confused because something is wrong with you. You are confused because a skilled manipulator is working very hard to make you feel that way. Judging behavior on its own merits, independent of any excuse offered, is the first and most grounding step toward reclaiming your clarity.
They See — But in Their Hearts, They Still Disagree
One of the most liberating truths in this entire conversation is Dr. Simon's clear-eyed statement: it is not that character-disturbed people do not see what they are doing. They see it. The problem is not awareness — it is that they do not yet care enough to change. You cannot think your way, plead your way, or love your way into producing that change in another person. Real change, if it comes at all, happens in the present moment through consistent, concrete behavior — not apologies, not tears, and not promises. Leslie reflects on how this understanding protects women from being misled by performances of remorse that have no roots in genuine character transformation.
Loving Yourself Is Not Selfishness — It Is the Starting Point of All Real Love
Both Leslie and Dr. Simon return to this truth throughout the conversation: you cannot love another person well if you do not first know your own worth and act to protect it. Dr. Simon connects this directly to the command of Jesus — love as I have loved you — and challenges the misreading of Christian submission that leaves women spiritually equipped to endure harm but not to refuse it. Enabling someone else's destructive behavior is not love; it is fear dressed in the language of faithfulness. Withdrawing from demeaning treatment, setting a firm limit on what you will participate in, and stewarding your own dignity are not uncharitable acts. They are the foundation of any love that is rooted in truth rather than self-erasure.
The Church Has Work to Do — and So Do You
Dr. Simon and Leslie speak honestly about why churches have been so slow to recognize and respond well to character disturbance and abuse. An over-emphasis on preserving the institution of marriage, patriarchal structures that diminish the voice and agency of women, and a focus on correct theology over Christlike character have all contributed to environments where harm goes unaddressed and victims are pressured to stay silent. The answer, as Dr. Simon puts it plainly, is more Jesus — not more rules, not more labels, but a serious and sustained attention to the character and manner of the One we say we follow. For the woman listening, this is both an invitation and a permission: the God who washed dirty feet and welcomed women into his circle of students sees you, and he does not ask you to disappear into someone else's dysfunction.
Personal Invitation
If this conversation is stirring something in you — if you are trying to discern whether what you are seeing in your husband is real change or a familiar pattern you have been through before — Leslie wants to meet you where you are. She is hosting a free workshop designed specifically for Christian women in difficult marriages called Is He Changing or Just Pretending? In this powerful time of teaching, community, and honest question-and-answer, you will learn how to distinguish genuine transformation from empty promises, and you will hear what God actually has to say about your choices and your worth. You do not have to keep sorting through this alone.
Save your spot here: https://leslievernick.com/masterclass
Closing Encouragement
If you have spent years feeling confused, dismissed, or quietly ashamed of what is happening behind closed doors, please hear this: your confusion was never evidence of weakness. It was evidence that something was genuinely wrong. God has not called you to disappear. He has called you to be loved, to love well, and to walk in the dignity he placed in you before you ever entered this relationship. The path forward may be hard, but you do not walk it alone. With the right understanding, the right support, and the God who sees every hidden thing, clarity is possible — and so is a life that is safe, whole, and free.
ResourcesPlease share more about the resources or programs you will be sharing about during the episode.:
My books In Sheep's Clothing, Character Disturbance, How Did We End Up Here?, and especially, Essentials for the Journey, The Judas Syndrome.
Find George:
https://www.drgeorgesimon.com/
www.youtube.com/@georgeksimon
Books:
In Sheep's Clothing
Character Disturbance
How Did We End Up Here?
Essentials for the Journey
The Judas Syndrome.
