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Behind every mission, every movement, and every attempt to create change, there's a human story shaping how it all unfolds.
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I'm Dr.
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Pyle Berry, and this is Reframing Perspectives.
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This podcast is for those change makers, those purpose-led founders, nonprofit leaders, growth mindset individuals, and purpose-driven entrepreneurs who believe the work that they're doing in the world should actually make people's lives better.
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Each week, I'm sitting down change makers who are shaping impact in their industries and communities.
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And together, we're going to explore the moments, the questions, and the perspective shifts that changed how they lead, how they build relationships, and how they create meaningful change in our world.
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Welcome to Reframing Perspectives, the podcast for change makers who believe relationships are the real infrastructure of impact.
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Kelly, thank you so much for being on Reframing Perspectives.
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I can't tell you how excited I am to talk to you for not just about the fact that your work and what you do with Bombas is so impactful and it's made such a massive difference.
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But what I think is actually more powerful is hearing your personal story and how your personal story is so much more awakening, I think, to a lot of people that who have myths about the homeless community, who have myths about what financial stress can really do to somebody.
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And how we're not actually that far off from thinking that our world and the world that someone lives in that, you know, is in a shelter, is living on the streets, is not that far off from each other.
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So I just want to say thank you so much for being here and thank you for being so open and vulnerable to sharing your story.
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I'm so thrilled to be here chatting with you today.
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Excited for this conversation.
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I know I think it's just so important because there's a couple of things that I'm really excited to touch on.
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One is, of course, your so your story.
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Second is, you know, the myths that so many people hold, and especially right now with the conversation becoming louder and louder on political stages and, you know, just the way people think about it.
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And third is just, you know, how Bombas has proven that you can absolutely have a successful organization while social good is woven deeply into its ethos.
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And so before we get into any of that though, I want to start with you.
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And I want to start with take us back to that moment where, you know, you had an eviction notice on your door.
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And it's the thing that everyone, you know, obviously nobody wants to have.
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Nobody wants to experience that.
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No one thinks that they're going to experience that.
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And here you are.
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So take us back to even before that moment.
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What was going on in your life?
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What was happening in those moments leading up to that eviction notice on your door?
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Yeah, thank you.
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Uh certainly it's it's a moment that no one wants to experience.
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And I haven't thought about it in a long time, really, but I can very vividly remember the sickening feeling of seeing that on my door and the sense of shame and not knowing what I was going to do.
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But what had led to that moment was uh going through a period of time where I was really trying something new.
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I had been living and working in New York City for the prior five years or so.
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I was working in the fashion production industry and I had a great job, but I did see that there was a sort of toxicity within the industry, and it was something that I was thinking about what might be next for me.
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Like is is this my path that sort of felt like uh an environment where everyone was very, very serious for their work, which is cool, but it also felt a little shallow to an extent just personally.
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I mean, I love the work, but I was feeling like it wasn't personally aligned with something bigger, something that felt like it was meaningful and helping people.
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And I think that's where I was first feeling a calling to something like something else, maybe something bigger.
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And so I went through this exercise of clearing my workspace of everything that I had accumulated over the seven years that I had been working with the company.
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I started in Massachusetts with them and then moved to New York with them.
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And so I had catalogs and papers and printouts and all kinds of things.
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And I thought maybe if I felt less physically tied to this space, it would create room for something else to come in.
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So I went through this exercise and I filled up this giant cardboard box.
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When I was done, it was almost too heavy to move, and I always which sort of felt like energetically, you know, kind of had this deep meaning to it.
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And so I pushed it down the hallway to kind of like so after I had cleared the space, I had this idea to order myself some fresh flowers to sort of celebrate the exercise.
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And that moment I thought, well, I didn't really know who to order from.
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I didn't, I wanted just like a local kind of delivery and arrangement that wasn't super formal, that didn't cost a fortune.
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And I mean, this was 2011.
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At the time, there's so much talent in the the flower space in New York City that it was a bit different then.
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And so in that moment, I had this feeling that maybe I could be the florist that I was looking for.
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And I started thinking about that.
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I'd always had uh a draw toward creative things.
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I'm a creative person.
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I mean, I really had no business being a florist.
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I had never learned anything technical about it, but I just thought maybe this is something I could look into as far as, you know, a business, uh creating a business plan or thinking about how I could revolutionize the way that people could order and send flowers in New York City.
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So I started doing some research and working on a business plan.
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And that was in July of that year.
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I had quit my job by Labor Day in September and launched a flower business by the end of that September.
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And it felt, I mean, I was very naive to a lot of things, but also just sort of the more that I worked on it, the more I believed that I had something.
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And the big idea really was an intent to almost entirely reduce overhead that's associated with a typical flower shop and also virtually eliminate all waste by sourcing on demand.
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New York City has one of the largest wholesale flower markets in the world, and so access to an immense variety of incredible things on a daily basis.
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So I built a website using Shopify, and my thought was that folks could place their order, you know, on like an income website, and I would source on a daily basis and deliver them around the city.
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And so it was an incredible learning experience.
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I ended up owning the business for five years, and it was incredibly challenging, but also great.
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What I didn't really plan for was how to ensure that I would have enough money to live on a day-to-day basis.
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Yeah.
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And I mean, I was extremely lucky.
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I had some money in a 401k, even though everyone said absolutely do not cash out 401k.
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But it's so true when when anyone starts a business, and I think this happens so often with individuals that don't necessarily come from a business background.
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And we start a business because we find an idea, we care about something so deeply.
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We move right into it.
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And I think that there's this notion of, you know, your business really does become your baby and it becomes like everything.
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It means everything to you.
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And just like how parents are like, they will spend on their child, but they will maybe sacrifice not buying themselves something.
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In the same way, new business owners spend every dime putting it right back into the business and forget that they also have to take care of themselves.
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And then when push comes to shove and when numbers start get to get become starting lean and you don't have something else for yourself as well, that's where that friction happens.
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I mean, I know I can relate to that.
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I did that definitely in my first couple of years of my business.
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I was pouring everything into the business and I was like, oh wait, I have to pay myself too.
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Didn't even think about it.
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Right.
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Absolutely.
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Yeah.
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And I didn't value my time in a way that I needed to, or talent in a way that I needed to.
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Like I shouldn't have been spending time and energy actually doing the deliveries, for example.
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But I also was afraid to let anyone see kind of the mess behind the scenes.
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Um, and so it felt easier for me to just try to do it all rather than, you know, admit that I really didn't know how to figure out the delivery aspect of it or how to let someone in.
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I wasn't, I didn't want to charge people a fortune for the flowers, but I wasn't being smart.
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I needed to in order to pay the people that helped me and were also working on it.
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So, you know, and I'm now owning a business, working out of my apartment.
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I no longer had insurance.
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So I think there are a number of things that were happening.
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I started over a period of time to experience significant depression.
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I was working super, super hard, like around the clock, really running myself into the ground, not taking good care of myself.
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My health was failing.
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I developed a severe allergy to cut flowers.
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I would be like wearing goggles in my kitchen.
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And I was like taking Benadryl during the day.
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It was bad.
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And I ended up also having two hernias from carrying so much weight on a daily basis.
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So now here I am.
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I don't have insurance, so I need to figure out how I can get hernia surgery and recover from that and keep working and doing taking on events that pay the bills, um, but are often lead to like, well, especially because I was largely doing it myself, um, which was very foolish.
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But I would work for like 72 straight hours, you know, at a time.
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And it was nuts.
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And so I finally had to come to terms with the fact that like this wasn't sustainable.
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I wasn't doing it in the right way, uh, and really had kind of a breaking point of like, okay, I'm experiencing severe depression, need help, I need this to get better.
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And so it was also during that time that I just like didn't have money.
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I didn't want anyone to know that.
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I was using credit cards to try to supplement my living expenses.
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At the same time, the deeper the hole of that got, the more nothing seemed to really matter.
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That was just like, well, if it already feels impossible to get out of this hole, what's a little bit more?
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Obviously, that's very irresponsible, but I didn't I didn't know like how else to get out of it.
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And I I didn't want to ask.
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I I didn't know how maybe to ask for help at the time.
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So that's what led to the eviction notice.
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I mean, so many layers within that that you just talked about.
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You talked about not wanting anyone to know the shame of the decisions that had been made and what you would know that they're gonna say to you that you already know.
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Second is depression.
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You're already now in a state where you're not able to even think straight because you've got brain fog and you're not able to move in the same way.
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You're literally having chemical imbalances.
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It's not letting you do anything that you know otherwise you would have made probably other decisions.
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You're working 72 hours straight, you're committed to this.
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You are, you know, working to the point of literally destroying your internal organs and destroying your health.
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And on top of that, you know, it's this continued movement towards, I can't even stop because if I stop, I can't pay the bills.
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And if I can't pay the bills and I can't take care of X, then I can't take care of that.
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But it's like this complete cycle that someone puts themselves in.
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And absolutely, like, how many business owners just, you know, take out all this credit card debt?
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How many advisors tell business owners, like, just take on credit card debt because you're taking a risk on this thing?
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And then that puts them into this very risky space that they don't look at for themselves of what what is that long-term impact it's gonna have on me?
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And now you're looking at these like compounded challenges and crises where your literal safety net is completely gone.
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There is nothing there.
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And now you're supposed to make good decisions from this place.
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It's not, it's not realistic, it's not possible.
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You know, you take us to that moment where now you have that eviction notice and you've had all these compounded challenges that come through.
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I mean, what was that, what was that feeling like in that moment?
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Oh, I just felt so sick about it and so ashamed.
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And like I couldn't believe that I had put myself in this position that I was experiencing this.
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And of course, at that time too, getting to the point of owing back rent, maybe say three months past or four months past.
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And I had had a roommate at that time, so he was paying his half of the rent to me.
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And then I was using that payment to like try to deal with the credit cards or, you know, so I was like falling behind on everything.
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And then creditors are calling, and you know, my mailbox is just filled with attempts to collect and just that overwhelm of being faced with the consequences day after day, but also having like no concept of how to in a point, that safety net is absolutely everything.
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And so there are so many things that I had working to my advantage.
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Like, yes, many things were falling apart, but I lived in a safe place.
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I had friends who often jumped in to like help with an event or help me do flower deliveries that were just so supportive.
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I had people that I could go to if I could get out of my own way.
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I have a great and supportive family who really believed in me.
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So I had a lot of things going for me, and even still, you know, things were really falling apart and I was retreating more and more.
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And so finally I had to fess up about the eviction notice because I just I thought, I'm really screwed here.
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Like I I don't know what's going to happen next.
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And I reached out to my parents and they weren't really in a position to like, they couldn't just be like, oh, we'll take care of it, don't worry.
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But you know, I was just like, help.
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I I don't I don't know how to get out of this.
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And it it took a lot and I was very embarrassed to even say so, but ultimately they helped me to just like get back to a place where I could kind of get a grasp on everything again.
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Um, and I paid them back over time.
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But so like I didn't lose my apartment, but there were a number of of weeks where the uh the eviction notice was on the door.
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I didn't want my roommate to know about it.
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So he's like, what the heck, man?
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I'm paying you rent to stay here and you're not paying the rent.
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Like just terrible.
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It feels crazy in hindsight that that's what was all going on.
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But yeah, so I was very lucky.
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But like you said, you know, health falls apart, which then the compound effect of that alone is so significant.
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The overwhelming feeling of shame, an inability to connect to a support system that feels like a clear path.
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But the difference that is made when someone can offer a hand and say, like, I see what's going on, thank you for telling me all of this, we can figure this out.
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And I enrolled in a debt, like a nonprofit debt relief program called Green Path, which is incredible.
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With all of the debt collectors reaching out, there is so much to sort through, and there are so many things that are not upstanding that are very scammy and predatory.
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And I think that that makes it really challenging too, because you're continuously surrounded by this idea that you don't know who and what to trust when you're already in a place that feels so precarious.
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So I was very grateful to Green Path.
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Um, I was able to meet with them in person in New York City, but they work nationally and were super helpful with helping me make a clear plan and just feeling like I could be in control again.
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And it took me a number of years still to take care of all of that debt finally.
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Um yeah, I think once you kind of feel like there's someone on your side that makes all the difference.
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And I think that right there, what you talked about is, you know, even the people who loved you the most, you were hiding it from them for a while because there's this desire to prove that I got this, I can do this, and I'm gonna show everybody that they their belief and trust in me wasn't a disappointment or it wasn't something that, you know, they should feel that I let them down.
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There's always that that internal pressure of that.
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And I think that that relates so much to what a lot of people can experience is when you lose a job and you don't want to tell anybody that you lost your job because, you know, what's society gonna say?
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What's image?
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And, you know, there's this upkeep you want to have.
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You look at your peers who are like killing it in their industries and you're like, what am I doing?
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And or you're, you know, you have you lose your health insurance or you have a massive health insurance bill.
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People who families where, you know, you end up having someone who gets very, very ill and and they don't have the best insurance through their company.
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So even though they have insurance, it's not great insurance.
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And then they're on top of that, not making a lot of money.
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And so it's not even business owners, it's even people are working within a regular nine to five job or working a service industry job, and they're doing everything in their power to do it.
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And I think that that is one of the biggest, biggest challenges in our society today is that we have these, we have these organizations, like you had Green Path, we have these organizations there to help and set up, like we want to help you.
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But that first step of I need to get out of my own way and accept the help because we live in the society that has just ingrained it that if you ask for help, that means that you've lost, that you're weak.
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And so then we take that type of belief system, we apply it to an entire group of individuals who are working really hard, yet still living in homeless shelters, yet still living, you know, in their cars.
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And, but yet they have a job because our jobs and the salaries have not kept up with the price of the housing crisis that we have.
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And so this notion that, oh, well, the people who ultimately ended up on the streets or ended up in the shelters were making very different decisions.
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That could never be me.
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That's not, you know, um, I like I don't know anyone in my life in my circle that would end up in that situation.
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And here you are with an almost eviction notice, almost getting there.
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And I think that it's very, very important to dismantle that belief system that the individuals that are on the streets or in the shelters are lazy, are not working, are drug addicts, mental health issues.
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It's typically that becomes a byproduct because now you have this stress of my gosh, I don't even have my basic safety measures.
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How am I supposed to think about anything else if I can't even take care of my basic needs?
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And now if I'm on in the shelter, if I'm in the streets, I also have to think about as a woman, my safety in a whole other sense of your physical safety as well.
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Yeah, exactly.
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Absolutely.
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So many things.
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Right.
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And it's it's so true.
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It's like everyone really is trying their best.
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And there are so many circumstances that can present that get in the way of that that make things so challenging.
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And, you know, this isn't like a poor me story.
00:21:37.279 --> 00:21:48.400
Like this in no way was like this is just how things went and like how I was trying to navigate this life that I was trying to live.
00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:50.319
It's not an uncommon story.
00:21:50.400 --> 00:21:51.200
That's the thing.
00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:53.519
It's not actually that uncommon.
00:21:53.839 --> 00:21:58.799
There's almost these like stories that get built off of, you know, for example, we let's just take living in New York.
00:21:58.880 --> 00:22:01.440
Living in New York is all Ready a resilience builder.
00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:16.160
And then, you know, and on top of that, it's like there's this grit about, you know, you live in the tiniest apartment and it's got like maybe a step that's missing, and there's rats coming around, and it's like considered a win if you get through that day, right?
00:22:16.319 --> 00:22:27.119
And it's just we've baked it into our culture that, you know, it's okay to take these crazy risks because then it's gonna have crazy wins.
00:22:27.279 --> 00:23:00.000
And that can happen even again if you're not a business owner, but you are working in an organization, but you're like, all right, I'm gonna start investing money because I see what's happening on Shark Tank and what I'm seeing happening on this, you know, and we build this media sensation around doing things that um people are just eager for sometimes for fast cash, or sometimes we don't have, we haven't built the infrastructure of teaching about financial responsibility in high school, you know, teaching basic like what does a, you know, how do you think about taxes?
00:23:00.079 --> 00:23:00.960
How do you think about these things?
00:23:01.039 --> 00:23:04.400
Like our day-to-day are not actually taught in our education system.
00:23:04.559 --> 00:23:08.960
And so we're we're led to this place where it's uh you're in it for yourself.
00:23:09.200 --> 00:23:15.440
Yes, I think that's a good point too, because I I feel like growing up, we didn't really talk about money.
00:23:15.680 --> 00:23:20.319
I had the perception, I mean, we weren't rich, but I always felt rich.
00:23:20.480 --> 00:23:25.359
Like I my parents offered us a very, my sister and I, a very rich experience.
00:23:25.599 --> 00:23:32.640
And there's this sort of thinking, I think, that was instilled that was like, if you want something, you can have it, kind of.
00:23:32.960 --> 00:23:40.720
Uh maybe without a proper understanding of what it really takes, though, to get that thing that you want and how to do so responsibly.
00:23:40.960 --> 00:23:52.720
So I don't think I had instilled in me a proper understanding of how to manage finances, how to really think about budgeting, how to ensure that I had a safety net before taking a risk.
00:23:52.960 --> 00:23:55.839
There's just that idea that like I could go for something.
00:23:56.000 --> 00:24:00.400
I, you know, I could try, which is cool to an extent.
00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:04.960
But obviously there are a lot of things that I learned the hardware hard way.
00:24:05.039 --> 00:24:16.079
And I say that because, you know, someone listening might say, well, like, come on, like, okay, you didn't know how to budget, you didn't know how to think responsibly about your finances, give me a break.
00:24:16.319 --> 00:24:39.279
But I say that because there are so many things, like whether it's about personal finances or not, that if they're not modeled for you, if it's not modeled for you in a productive way, it's really a big task to just assume that someone will otherwise figure it out without seeing it or being presented with an understanding of how to do something a certain way.
00:24:39.440 --> 00:24:42.319
It's unlikely in some cases that someone will just know.
00:24:42.480 --> 00:24:55.039
And I think that that kind of leads into a number of misconceptions about how people end up experiencing housing insecurity and homelessness and are working to try to get back on their feet too.
00:24:55.200 --> 00:25:03.839
And like to your point, too, many people experiencing homelessness do have one, two, three jobs that still aren't enough.
00:25:04.079 --> 00:25:17.119
But it's those things that we may not have learned, that someone may not have taught us, that we didn't grow up in an environment that nurtured us in such a way that we were best equipped to be resilient and to handle the challenges.
00:25:17.359 --> 00:25:20.400
And I think it's important to not just count that.
00:25:20.720 --> 00:25:22.640
Yeah, I couldn't agree more with you.
00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:47.119
I think that there's you see this happen, you know, the more you expose yourself to different demographics and different socioeconomic classes, the way that a wealthy person teaches their kids about money and how to think about money or the access that they have about thinking about starting a business or starting a fund, you know, is not the same reality or world that someone who's middle class is thinking about.
00:25:47.200 --> 00:25:58.079
And middle class is very much thinking about, you know, get your education and your education is your ticket to, you know, raising your socioeconomic class to all the opportunities in the world.
00:25:58.319 --> 00:26:02.000
But, you know, with that education comes a massive price.
00:26:02.160 --> 00:26:10.559
It comes the student loan debt, it comes all of these other pieces of there that, again, you're not told or taught about how they impact each other.
00:26:10.720 --> 00:26:14.960
Then you take it to the lower class where they're just thinking about like, how are we gonna make ends meet tomorrow?
00:26:15.119 --> 00:26:18.240
How is how is it gonna, you know, what are we doing for the next day?
00:26:18.480 --> 00:26:27.119
And so where do they even have that space to breathe and think to themselves, okay, well, I've got$20 in my pocket.
00:26:27.279 --> 00:26:34.240
How do I actually take that$20, make like 10, use 10 of it, and the other 10 makes 10 work for me, right?
00:26:34.319 --> 00:26:41.119
It's just, it's not like those conversations aren't happening at necessarily at those different levels, or they are happening at some levels, not at others.
00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:49.279
And to your point, the other part about that is that like when it's not modeled to you, it's an ingrained behavior belief that you have, right?
00:26:49.359 --> 00:26:57.519
So you have this belief that, okay, well, you know, whatever I want to have happen will happen for me because that's what I've seen and that's what I've experienced.
00:26:57.680 --> 00:27:08.480
And someone else may have that same belief of, you know, especially with parents who grow up thinking from a different generation that think you're not supposed to bring your kids into conversations about money.
00:27:08.640 --> 00:27:15.119
This is an adult conversation, this isn't about kids, you know, um, we're not gonna let them know that we can't afford this.
00:27:15.279 --> 00:27:17.279
Like maybe we'll say something else to them.
00:27:17.440 --> 00:27:19.279
So it's there's so much shame.
00:27:19.359 --> 00:27:21.039
And then take women on top of that.
00:27:21.279 --> 00:27:29.200
Women are then encouraged to not talk about money because it's not ladylike, you know, again, from different cultural perspectives.
00:27:29.440 --> 00:27:39.359
So to your point, you're brought into it's not just about the finances and the decision making around how you're making your money work for you.
00:27:39.519 --> 00:27:48.880
It's so much of it is the psychology, the behavior, the mindset and the people that you're around, the society and the culture and what that's told you.
00:27:49.039 --> 00:28:00.880
So it's like you can get that 20, you can get out of debt, but then the chances are getting back into debt is gonna happen again because you haven't learned, okay, well, what like how do I change the behavior, the tools that you need?
00:28:01.200 --> 00:28:06.240
And so when we look at those individuals that are living in shelters, they want to have a nice place.
00:28:06.400 --> 00:28:09.440
They want to be able to live comfortably, they want to have the dignity.
00:28:09.599 --> 00:28:17.680
And that's what I think is so powerful and beautiful about what Bombas does is that it's focused on the dignity of the human being.
00:28:17.920 --> 00:28:36.240
And that just because someone lives in a shelter does not mean that they should be without, you know, the basic resources, clothing, socks, like the most needed things to make themselves feel somewhat protected and not fully exposed, you could say, in in the most vulnerable way.
00:28:36.559 --> 00:28:36.880
Yes.
00:28:37.039 --> 00:28:45.279
And being in a position like that where your self-worth is often declining, where it's really hard to carry that resiliency from day to day.
00:28:45.519 --> 00:28:50.319
I think that was the thing that really spoke to me about Bombus from the very beginning.
00:28:50.480 --> 00:28:56.880
So I had the opportunity to interview for the role that I have now back in 2016.
00:28:56.960 --> 00:28:59.359
So I'd had the flower business for five years.
00:28:59.599 --> 00:29:01.119
Things really kind of fell apart.
00:29:01.279 --> 00:29:04.160
I'd realized how much I needed to focus on my health.
00:29:04.480 --> 00:29:12.400
I was back to a place of stability, thank goodness, but still had a bit of a road to go down.
00:29:12.559 --> 00:29:29.200
I had the opportunity for this interview, and I remember being told that I could interview for this position, and I was so overwhelmed by the idea that this was something that I could do or like that I could have potentially.
00:29:29.440 --> 00:29:56.079
And I remember going home and sitting and meditating, and all of this good just sort of welled up while I was meditating on it, and I thought, oh my gosh, like this is this is the thing that I think I've been chasing all of this time, this idea of something that has a much deeper meaning, that's so much bigger than me, something that I could potentially contribute to that would help people in a real way.
00:29:56.559 --> 00:30:14.160
And so then I started preparing for the interviews and and got so excited about the potential of bringing beauty and thoughtfulness and dignity to a community that is so often given the leftovers at best.
00:30:15.039 --> 00:30:19.119
Well, this should be good enough, you know, kind of things.
00:30:19.519 --> 00:30:26.079
Assuming, like you said, that they're any different that people experiencing this hardship are any different than us.
00:30:26.880 --> 00:30:53.440
And that's what kills me is just this misconception that's held by so many that somehow we devalue humans who are having a hard time going through a tough time and then also deciding, like casting a value judgment that they don't deserve the good things, the new things, the kind things, the compassionate things.
00:30:53.839 --> 00:31:24.480
And that's even though I, you know, didn't have a background in the nonprofit space or in this role that I ultimately took on, what I think the line was between my work and fashion production and then having the flower business was everything was kind of built around bringing people together to create something beautiful, to create a sense of community, to admire beauty and project beauty.
00:31:24.720 --> 00:31:29.759
And I just that's sort of how I like to live my life.
00:31:29.920 --> 00:31:36.480
Like I I love to bring like special touches to the everyday moments and celebrate things and people.
00:31:36.799 --> 00:31:46.640
And so I was so energized by the opportunity to bring that mentality to a group of people that deserve it so so much.
00:31:46.799 --> 00:31:56.640
And if that can help boost their feelings of self-worth just a little bit, can lead to that feeling of being like, okay, I can be a little bit more resilient today.
00:31:56.880 --> 00:31:58.720
I might be able to take that next step.
00:31:58.799 --> 00:32:02.559
And just knowing how truly meaningful that is.
00:32:02.720 --> 00:32:04.319
I mean, we've all felt it, right?
00:32:04.400 --> 00:32:20.720
You're having like a terrible day, and then you have this interaction with a cashier, maybe, and you just have like a nice normal conversation, and all of a sudden it just changes your whole mindset and things feel just a little bit easier, or you're a little bit more capable.
00:32:20.960 --> 00:32:27.680
And so I don't think we can undervalue the impact of those small moments that really can add up.
00:32:32.400 --> 00:32:42.160
It's just the journey of our lives is that we're able to take the different experiences and tie it all beautifully together for making meaningful impact.
00:32:42.319 --> 00:33:03.200
And what you've been able to do at Bomba is with being able to have over 4,000 giving partner organizations and a very large wait list of many more, and across all 50 states and, you know, in partners that including like, you know, shelters and transitional living programs, veteran programs.
00:33:03.359 --> 00:33:08.240
I mean, you're touching LGBTQ, you know, youth, like domestic violence programs.
00:33:08.319 --> 00:33:14.480
I mean, the number is just staggering with the type of impact that Bombas is able to make.
00:33:14.640 --> 00:33:45.359
And I think that what is just so interwoven in your story and the way that you've been able to make these partnerships happen and the success and the impact that you're able to capture through all of that is the fact that you've proven, and Bombas has proven, just the leadership team has proven, that social good and caring for other people, giving dignity can be very well and successfully woven into the actual organization's values, beliefs, and actions.
00:33:45.519 --> 00:33:48.640
And it's still profitable, it's still productive.
00:33:48.799 --> 00:33:54.559
In fact, it's probably more profitable because of the meaning that is behind it and the work that's been done.
00:33:54.720 --> 00:34:04.720
And so, you know, I admire that because I think that there's so much of this notion of it's not corporate's responsibility to take care of the world.
00:34:04.880 --> 00:34:13.039
We're here to just do what we do best, and that may be making machines, delivering this product, you know, that's what we're here for.
00:34:13.199 --> 00:34:15.599
Come here, work, do your thing, and go out.
00:34:15.760 --> 00:34:22.400
But it's like we've built a community in a society where so much is actually baked into the organization.
00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:25.199
I mean, if you lose your job, you lose health insurance.
00:34:25.360 --> 00:34:28.079
So how can an organization not be responsible for that?
00:34:28.320 --> 00:34:34.639
If we lose our, you know, if you're not getting paid well, you're you're now not able to afford housing.
00:34:34.800 --> 00:34:38.960
You know, you may be able to get a job in New York, but can the job in New York actually sustain your life?
00:34:39.119 --> 00:34:40.800
Like, can you actually think about retirement?
00:34:40.960 --> 00:34:43.280
Can you actually think about having a family?
00:34:43.519 --> 00:34:53.920
There's so many decisions that get that that an organization makes that actually does ripple into the way that society ends up functioning.
00:34:54.239 --> 00:35:10.639
So, you know, I just I want to understand from you that how is it that Bombas is able to stay so close to their mission and continually, you know, produce for communities and find that to be the ethos of what they believe in.
00:35:10.719 --> 00:35:13.519
And it's not just about selling really great socks.
00:35:13.840 --> 00:35:14.159
Yeah.
00:35:14.320 --> 00:35:22.159
I and you raised such a great point about the responsibility that corporations business really does have to care for their employees.
00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:35.280
And when that falls away, I mean, and I I guess I would couple that with the idea that as general societal trust is waning in areas like trust in government is at an all-time low.
00:35:35.360 --> 00:35:42.239
For example, uh trust in private business, it's actually at an all-time high.
00:35:42.559 --> 00:35:52.480
We are looking to both our employers and to the businesses that we patronize as consumers and that we look to as leaders to do the right thing.
00:35:52.800 --> 00:36:05.440
You know, when we feel like there's a lack of that sort of leadership in other places, more and more we're looking for more in our day-to-day, like right, whether it's our place of employment or or who we're spending money with.
00:36:05.679 --> 00:36:08.400
And I still kind of pinch myself.
00:36:08.480 --> 00:36:10.719
I've been a bombist for just about 10 years.
00:36:10.880 --> 00:36:20.079
And the fact that, yeah, our our commitment to mission is just as strong, if not stronger really, than it was from the very beginning.
00:36:20.320 --> 00:36:29.519
And I think overall it is this alignment in belief that this matters and it's important.
00:36:29.679 --> 00:36:32.400
It's something that we're not going to compromise on.
00:36:32.800 --> 00:36:37.599
And that alignment has to start at the top.
00:36:37.760 --> 00:36:41.119
It doesn't have to start at the top, but it has to exist at the top.
00:36:41.360 --> 00:36:43.519
For us, it started at the top.
00:36:43.840 --> 00:36:51.039
And so it's not like, you know, a small group over here that's focused on social good within a larger company.
00:36:51.119 --> 00:36:56.000
And of course, it's amazing that those groups do exist across many companies.
00:36:56.320 --> 00:37:07.679
But in order for it to have long-term, widespread, sustainable impact, it can't be disconnected from leadership, from the overall company ethos.
00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:29.199
And I think that that is a little bit of the challenge now with organizations that are trying to build in social good or are wanting to carry out programming that's sort of unmarried from the beliefs of the company itself, that's going to raise some challenges.
00:37:29.360 --> 00:37:37.920
And again, I do still think it's super important and you know, efforts count and are working towards something big.
00:37:38.079 --> 00:37:45.920
But for us at Bombus, I think the fact that it's so ingrained and there's such an expectation that is set.
00:37:46.320 --> 00:37:50.239
One, it attracts amazing, like-minded talent.
00:37:50.480 --> 00:37:57.599
People want to work here because of our commitment to mission, because it can be part of something that's a bit bigger than ourselves.
00:37:57.760 --> 00:38:02.800
Yes, we have like the stressful day-to-day of all of the different business challenges.
00:38:02.960 --> 00:38:16.079
But when it comes down to it, the reason that we're all here is to produce amazing product that people want and we need them to want it and love it because that's truly what fuels our give back.
00:38:16.800 --> 00:38:23.920
And yes, we could make more profit if we didn't have a mission, but that was that's the big decision.
00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:36.239
And and I think that's what it comes down to, you know, like you were saying, it's just a decision to make a little less profit, and many corporations could do that.
00:38:36.960 --> 00:38:43.119
And I, you know, I recently had another guest who is phenomenal, and I actually really want to introduce you to her.
00:38:43.280 --> 00:38:43.920
She's incredible.
00:38:44.000 --> 00:38:48.719
She's also based in New York, and she does a lot of business modeling, design thinking.
00:38:48.880 --> 00:39:07.920
And one thing that she said on the podcast was about the focus when you think about social challenges and when you think about how do you tie the business to be meaningful, profitable, but it's looking at it as not, it's profit making, not profit prioritizing.
00:39:08.239 --> 00:39:16.800
So when you're profit prioritizing, you're actually then compromising on your belief systems because you've made that the most important piece.
00:39:17.039 --> 00:39:23.920
But when you're profit making, you're prioritizing the people, you're prioritizing your values, you're prioritizing the impact.
00:39:24.159 --> 00:39:28.079
And through that, you're still profitable, you're still doing well.
00:39:28.320 --> 00:39:31.440
It's just not a chase to only the number.
00:39:31.519 --> 00:39:46.960
The the actual profit, if you look at it, it becomes the profit, it becomes your numbers, it becomes the impact, it becomes the trust of your employees, it becomes so many more of the intangibles that actually then continue to keep weaving into the organization.
00:39:47.039 --> 00:39:59.519
And that's what I find Bombas and what the work that you've done as you know, the VP and of doing impact work there believing in is that it's profit making and prioritizing people and community.
00:39:59.599 --> 00:40:01.440
It's not profit prioritizing.
00:40:01.679 --> 00:40:02.960
I love that framing.
00:40:03.039 --> 00:40:04.159
That's such a good way to put it.
00:40:04.320 --> 00:40:05.679
And you're absolutely right.
00:40:05.920 --> 00:40:08.960
The two can exist alongside one another.
00:40:09.119 --> 00:40:12.559
It doesn't have to be a choice of one or the other.
00:40:13.199 --> 00:40:14.960
And I think that's what I would.
00:40:15.440 --> 00:40:28.639
And I guess I will say there are so many companies who are doing great work that I think they just don't often talk about, that we don't know about as consumers.
00:40:29.119 --> 00:40:51.760
And that's that's I think like a big challenge for us all in the business community is to talk more about what's working, what's possible, what commitments are important to us, and not just have it be a tagline that reads us marketing or like a pat ourselves on the back kind of thing.
00:40:52.079 --> 00:41:23.039
But standing in the responsibility that we all have to contribute in a bigger way when there is such a major discrepancy and disparities in wealth and the challenges that someone here are facing, it just feels incredibly disappointing to be profit prioritizing when there's more that could be done pretty easily with just the right belief system, I think.
00:41:23.360 --> 00:42:02.800
And what would you say is, you know, if a just thinking about the listeners who are listening, you know, if there's one thing that a leader in an organization that could do, like maybe it's it's a small business owner, it's a nonprofit leader, it's a it is a leader at a large organization, and maybe they don't necessarily have those direct profit-making belief systems at the larger scale, but what is that one step that they could take to start seeing that the way that they create impact is more valuable if they were to consider it from a profit-making perspective versus a profit prioritizing?
00:42:03.119 --> 00:42:08.880
I think it starts with really understanding what it is that you care about.
00:42:09.119 --> 00:42:20.719
There are a lot of things someone can care about that, I mean, even the issue of homelessness and so incredibly complex, it intersects with so many social issues, public health issues.
00:42:21.039 --> 00:42:25.679
The list is long for something a company could choose to invest in or get behind.
00:42:25.760 --> 00:42:30.880
And I think that's what has helped us is that clarity of purpose.
00:42:31.119 --> 00:42:36.079
Everything is really kind of centered around one core goal.
00:42:36.320 --> 00:43:13.039
And so whatever that is for another company, whatever makes sense for them, it's maybe starting there and choosing a thing that's not just like checking a box or like, and obviously, there are so many incredible organizations and causes to support, but I do think it starts there because that allows for that greater cross-company buy-in alignment, rallies people behind it, gives employees something to care for, signals that as a company we care about this particular thing.
00:43:13.280 --> 00:43:26.400
And I know that this might sound small, but the way that we think about issues and challenges really impacts how we act on them.
00:43:35.360 --> 00:43:44.400
I think that the way that we think about issues and challenges directly impacts the way that we will ultimately act on them.
00:43:44.559 --> 00:43:53.119
And so I don't want to underestimate the power of even getting real about why certain challenges exist.
00:43:53.440 --> 00:43:58.400
And you know, we've been talking so much about misconceptions about homelessness, for example.
00:43:58.719 --> 00:44:16.480
And if we can't Debunk those myths or get a better understanding about why those misconceptions exist and frame the issue around the realities of the challenges, the complex challenges, we can't effectively address it.
00:44:16.880 --> 00:44:31.360
So all to say that I think getting real about the thinking of a particular issue is what can significantly impact how we're then acting on something, what feels possible.
00:44:31.840 --> 00:44:34.480
I love that so much because you're so right.
00:44:34.639 --> 00:44:48.480
That reframing of how you're asking a question versus if you're looking at it from a pop of, oh, well, that's such a problem, that's such a challenge, then you're already saying that there isn't anything that's going to fix it.
00:44:48.639 --> 00:44:49.599
So why bother?
00:44:49.760 --> 00:44:52.880
But when we look at it from a place of what are the gaps here?
00:44:53.039 --> 00:44:59.280
What is what hasn't been done before, or what has been done, but what was something that could get tweaked within that?
00:44:59.440 --> 00:45:25.199
I also think that what's so powerful that you guys do is you take that, you take those, the purpose, the values, and what the organization believes in and you truly act on it, not just from a place of, you know, the give back that you obviously do, but even, for example, when you hit the 100 million donations, you didn't throw a big party about this.
00:45:25.360 --> 00:45:28.239
You didn't do something that was more indulgent.
00:45:28.400 --> 00:45:33.599
You went ahead and put billboards across New York City that stated facts about homelessness.
00:45:33.679 --> 00:45:41.119
So it's continues and perpetuates that education and debunking of myths and continues to bring knowledge and awareness.
00:45:41.280 --> 00:45:48.079
So it's like everything is truly directed, like you said, about that one purpose that we have here, that one goal.
00:45:48.239 --> 00:46:02.639
And so is when you're thinking about those questions that you're asking yourself, like, okay, yes, we had this big moment, but what is now the momentum that we carry through this moment versus, all right, we did our thing, check, now let's throw a party.
00:46:02.960 --> 00:46:12.480
And I think that that is the different thinking is that you're looking at this as a marathon and not just as these quick sprints of check, we did this, check that happened.
00:46:12.559 --> 00:46:19.280
And I think when you think from a transactional place of causes, then it's going to feel like misaligned.
00:46:19.440 --> 00:46:31.920
But when you see it from a place of relationship, that we are in relationship with the society that we live within, the people who consume our products, the people who are living with us, who are working here, we're in relationship with them.
00:46:32.079 --> 00:46:35.840
Then the work that you're doing is like it's carrying that momentum forward.
00:46:35.920 --> 00:46:40.559
And that's, I think that those billboards were exactly a note, a note of that.
00:46:41.039 --> 00:46:42.239
Thank you for saying that.
00:46:42.480 --> 00:46:45.519
Yeah, I love this idea of being in constant relationship.
00:46:45.599 --> 00:46:47.119
That's such a great way to put it.
00:46:47.360 --> 00:46:53.519
And I think how we think about our relationships with our network of our giving partners, we're always trying to get to know.
00:46:53.679 --> 00:47:08.239
I mean, it's hard to get to know all 4,000, but we're always trying our very best to know more about them, to have it move beyond just the transactional aspect of sending an organization the socks that they need, for example.
00:47:08.400 --> 00:47:22.480
But I think when you frame it as that ongoing relationship, both with our nonprofit partners and our customers and our internal Bombus community, it allows for room for constant evolution.
00:47:22.639 --> 00:47:25.599
It's that truly relationship, right?
00:47:25.679 --> 00:47:27.440
It's like the back and forth.
00:47:27.599 --> 00:47:28.639
It's the word.
00:47:29.360 --> 00:47:49.119
We have that relationship, it allows for space that promotes curiosity, it allows us to ask questions, it allows it to be dynamic so that even if our focus is very singular, we I think it's really important that that evolution continues.
00:47:49.519 --> 00:48:01.440
And as we learn more and more about the topics of homelessness, specific challenges that our giving partners are facing, the role that we can play.
00:48:01.679 --> 00:48:21.360
What we always kind of say is we can't unknow what we now know and to ignore the responsibility that the growing responsibility that I feel we have to our partners, to people who are experiencing housing insecurity and homelessness, we have to keep pushing that forward.
00:48:21.519 --> 00:48:24.079
So it will always be centered around our core mission.
00:48:24.159 --> 00:48:31.760
But I think that allows that opportunity to continue to expand and to use that curiosity to say, you know, why is that?
00:48:31.920 --> 00:48:33.360
Or what could we do?
00:48:33.440 --> 00:48:34.719
Or what could one do?
00:48:34.800 --> 00:48:36.639
Or what is our responsibility?
00:48:36.880 --> 00:48:41.760
And that's what really continues to drive the evolution of our mission, I would say.
00:48:42.079 --> 00:48:45.440
Kelly, thank you so much for being here on Referring Perspectives.
00:48:45.679 --> 00:49:03.679
Everything that you've shared from your very vulnerable story to the relationships that, you know, that have built your life into seeing more meaning and purpose and connecting it with the social good that that uh Bombas is doing has been just a beautiful, beautiful time spent.
00:49:03.760 --> 00:49:18.239
And I really, really hope that all the listeners who are listening to your story and listening to this notice and pay attention to the fact that, you know, there are an abundance of ways for us to support each other and to be in community and relationship.
00:49:18.400 --> 00:49:20.320
And you don't have to do it alone.
00:49:20.480 --> 00:49:22.800
You don't have to be in it alone.
00:49:23.039 --> 00:49:29.119
And there's many ways to get that support and systems if we continue to be in relationship with each other.
00:49:29.280 --> 00:49:31.760
So thank you so much, Kelly, for being here.
00:49:32.079 --> 00:49:32.800
Thank you so much.
00:49:32.960 --> 00:49:34.719
What a pleasure to chat today.
00:49:35.199 --> 00:49:35.840
Definitely.
00:49:36.079 --> 00:49:36.719
Hi, friends.
00:49:36.880 --> 00:49:38.480
I have a favor to ask you.
00:49:38.639 --> 00:49:47.119
If you're finding meaning and you're really resonating with these episodes, I'd love if you could subscribe, leave a review, or share it with your friends and family.
00:49:47.280 --> 00:49:51.760
Your words help others discover the stories and perspectives that we're exploring over here.
00:49:51.920 --> 00:50:01.599
And the more that we grow and the more feedback that we get from you through these reviews, the more we can make sure to create meaningful episodes that you're gonna enjoy.
00:50:01.760 --> 00:50:07.360
You have no idea how much it means to me and how much it means to creating these podcast episodes for you.
00:50:07.440 --> 00:50:08.639
And I'd appreciate it so much.
00:50:08.800 --> 00:50:14.000
So subscribe, follow, re leave a review, and share it with your family and friends.
00:50:14.639 --> 00:50:15.119
Thank you so much.
00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:07.200
Behind every mission, every movement, and every attempt to create change, there's a human story shaping how it all unfolds.
00:00:07.360 --> 00:00:07.919
I'm Dr.
00:00:08.000 --> 00:00:11.519
Pyle Berry, and this is Reframing Perspectives.
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This podcast is for those change makers, those purpose-led founders, nonprofit leaders, growth mindset individuals, and purpose-driven entrepreneurs who believe the work that they're doing in the world should actually make people's lives better.
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Each week, I'm sitting down change makers who are shaping impact in their industries and communities.
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And together, we're going to explore the moments, the questions, and the perspective shifts that changed how they lead, how they build relationships, and how they create meaningful change in our world.
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Welcome to Reframing Perspectives, the podcast for change makers who believe relationships are the real infrastructure of impact.
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Kelly, thank you so much for being on Reframing Perspectives.
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I can't tell you how excited I am to talk to you for not just about the fact that your work and what you do with Bombas is so impactful and it's made such a massive difference.
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But what I think is actually more powerful is hearing your personal story and how your personal story is so much more awakening, I think, to a lot of people that who have myths about the homeless community, who have myths about what financial stress can really do to somebody.
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And how we're not actually that far off from thinking that our world and the world that someone lives in that, you know, is in a shelter, is living on the streets, is not that far off from each other.
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So I just want to say thank you so much for being here and thank you for being so open and vulnerable to sharing your story.
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I'm so thrilled to be here chatting with you today.
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Excited for this conversation.
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I know I think it's just so important because there's a couple of things that I'm really excited to touch on.
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One is, of course, your so your story.
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Second is, you know, the myths that so many people hold, and especially right now with the conversation becoming louder and louder on political stages and, you know, just the way people think about it.
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And third is just, you know, how Bombas has proven that you can absolutely have a successful organization while social good is woven deeply into its ethos.
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And so before we get into any of that though, I want to start with you.
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And I want to start with take us back to that moment where, you know, you had an eviction notice on your door.
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And it's the thing that everyone, you know, obviously nobody wants to have.
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Nobody wants to experience that.
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No one thinks that they're going to experience that.
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And here you are.
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So take us back to even before that moment.
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What was going on in your life?
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What was happening in those moments leading up to that eviction notice on your door?
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Yeah, thank you.
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Uh certainly it's it's a moment that no one wants to experience.
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And I haven't thought about it in a long time, really, but I can very vividly remember the sickening feeling of seeing that on my door and the sense of shame and not knowing what I was going to do.
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But what had led to that moment was uh going through a period of time where I was really trying something new.
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I had been living and working in New York City for the prior five years or so.
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I was working in the fashion production industry and I had a great job, but I did see that there was a sort of toxicity within the industry, and it was something that I was thinking about what might be next for me.
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Like is is this my path that sort of felt like uh an environment where everyone was very, very serious for their work, which is cool, but it also felt a little shallow to an extent just personally.
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I mean, I love the work, but I was feeling like it wasn't personally aligned with something bigger, something that felt like it was meaningful and helping people.
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And I think that's where I was first feeling a calling to something like something else, maybe something bigger.
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And so I went through this exercise of clearing my workspace of everything that I had accumulated over the seven years that I had been working with the company.
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I started in Massachusetts with them and then moved to New York with them.
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And so I had catalogs and papers and printouts and all kinds of things.
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And I thought maybe if I felt less physically tied to this space, it would create room for something else to come in.
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So I went through this exercise and I filled up this giant cardboard box.
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When I was done, it was almost too heavy to move, and I always which sort of felt like energetically, you know, kind of had this deep meaning to it.
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And so I pushed it down the hallway to kind of like so after I had cleared the space, I had this idea to order myself some fresh flowers to sort of celebrate the exercise.
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And that moment I thought, well, I didn't really know who to order from.
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I didn't, I wanted just like a local kind of delivery and arrangement that wasn't super formal, that didn't cost a fortune.
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And I mean, this was 2011.
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At the time, there's so much talent in the the flower space in New York City that it was a bit different then.
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And so in that moment, I had this feeling that maybe I could be the florist that I was looking for.
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And I started thinking about that.
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I'd always had uh a draw toward creative things.
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I'm a creative person.
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I mean, I really had no business being a florist.
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I had never learned anything technical about it, but I just thought maybe this is something I could look into as far as, you know, a business, uh creating a business plan or thinking about how I could revolutionize the way that people could order and send flowers in New York City.
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So I started doing some research and working on a business plan.
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And that was in July of that year.
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I had quit my job by Labor Day in September and launched a flower business by the end of that September.
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And it felt, I mean, I was very naive to a lot of things, but also just sort of the more that I worked on it, the more I believed that I had something.
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And the big idea really was an intent to almost entirely reduce overhead that's associated with a typical flower shop and also virtually eliminate all waste by sourcing on demand.
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New York City has one of the largest wholesale flower markets in the world, and so access to an immense variety of incredible things on a daily basis.
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So I built a website using Shopify, and my thought was that folks could place their order, you know, on like an income website, and I would source on a daily basis and deliver them around the city.
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And so it was an incredible learning experience.
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I ended up owning the business for five years, and it was incredibly challenging, but also great.
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What I didn't really plan for was how to ensure that I would have enough money to live on a day-to-day basis.
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Yeah.
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And I mean, I was extremely lucky.
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I had some money in a 401k, even though everyone said absolutely do not cash out 401k.
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But it's so true when when anyone starts a business, and I think this happens so often with individuals that don't necessarily come from a business background.
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And we start a business because we find an idea, we care about something so deeply.
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We move right into it.
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And I think that there's this notion of, you know, your business really does become your baby and it becomes like everything.
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It means everything to you.
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And just like how parents are like, they will spend on their child, but they will maybe sacrifice not buying themselves something.
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In the same way, new business owners spend every dime putting it right back into the business and forget that they also have to take care of themselves.
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And then when push comes to shove and when numbers start get to get become starting lean and you don't have something else for yourself as well, that's where that friction happens.
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I mean, I know I can relate to that.
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I did that definitely in my first couple of years of my business.
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I was pouring everything into the business and I was like, oh wait, I have to pay myself too.
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Didn't even think about it.
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Right.
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Absolutely.
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Yeah.
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And I didn't value my time in a way that I needed to, or talent in a way that I needed to.
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Like I shouldn't have been spending time and energy actually doing the deliveries, for example.
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But I also was afraid to let anyone see kind of the mess behind the scenes.
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Um, and so it felt easier for me to just try to do it all rather than, you know, admit that I really didn't know how to figure out the delivery aspect of it or how to let someone in.
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I wasn't, I didn't want to charge people a fortune for the flowers, but I wasn't being smart.
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I needed to in order to pay the people that helped me and were also working on it.
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So, you know, and I'm now owning a business, working out of my apartment.
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I no longer had insurance.
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So I think there are a number of things that were happening.
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I started over a period of time to experience significant depression.
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I was working super, super hard, like around the clock, really running myself into the ground, not taking good care of myself.
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My health was failing.
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I developed a severe allergy to cut flowers.
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I would be like wearing goggles in my kitchen.
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And I was like taking Benadryl during the day.
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It was bad.
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And I ended up also having two hernias from carrying so much weight on a daily basis.
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So now here I am.
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I don't have insurance, so I need to figure out how I can get hernia surgery and recover from that and keep working and doing taking on events that pay the bills, um, but are often lead to like, well, especially because I was largely doing it myself, um, which was very foolish.
00:11:08.799 --> 00:11:12.720
But I would work for like 72 straight hours, you know, at a time.
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And it was nuts.
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And so I finally had to come to terms with the fact that like this wasn't sustainable.
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I wasn't doing it in the right way, uh, and really had kind of a breaking point of like, okay, I'm experiencing severe depression, need help, I need this to get better.
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And so it was also during that time that I just like didn't have money.
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I didn't want anyone to know that.
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I was using credit cards to try to supplement my living expenses.
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At the same time, the deeper the hole of that got, the more nothing seemed to really matter.
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That was just like, well, if it already feels impossible to get out of this hole, what's a little bit more?
00:12:01.600 --> 00:12:09.600
Obviously, that's very irresponsible, but I didn't I didn't know like how else to get out of it.
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And I I didn't want to ask.
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I I didn't know how maybe to ask for help at the time.
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So that's what led to the eviction notice.
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I mean, so many layers within that that you just talked about.
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You talked about not wanting anyone to know the shame of the decisions that had been made and what you would know that they're gonna say to you that you already know.
00:12:30.480 --> 00:12:31.759
Second is depression.
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You're already now in a state where you're not able to even think straight because you've got brain fog and you're not able to move in the same way.
00:12:40.000 --> 00:12:42.080
You're literally having chemical imbalances.
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It's not letting you do anything that you know otherwise you would have made probably other decisions.
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You're working 72 hours straight, you're committed to this.
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You are, you know, working to the point of literally destroying your internal organs and destroying your health.
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And on top of that, you know, it's this continued movement towards, I can't even stop because if I stop, I can't pay the bills.
00:13:06.480 --> 00:13:10.159
And if I can't pay the bills and I can't take care of X, then I can't take care of that.
00:13:10.320 --> 00:13:14.080
But it's like this complete cycle that someone puts themselves in.
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And absolutely, like, how many business owners just, you know, take out all this credit card debt?
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How many advisors tell business owners, like, just take on credit card debt because you're taking a risk on this thing?
00:13:26.399 --> 00:13:34.879
And then that puts them into this very risky space that they don't look at for themselves of what what is that long-term impact it's gonna have on me?
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And now you're looking at these like compounded challenges and crises where your literal safety net is completely gone.
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There is nothing there.
00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:48.639
And now you're supposed to make good decisions from this place.
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It's not, it's not realistic, it's not possible.
00:13:52.559 --> 00:14:00.879
You know, you take us to that moment where now you have that eviction notice and you've had all these compounded challenges that come through.
00:14:01.039 --> 00:14:04.480
I mean, what was that, what was that feeling like in that moment?
00:14:04.720 --> 00:14:09.759
Oh, I just felt so sick about it and so ashamed.
00:14:10.159 --> 00:14:16.720
And like I couldn't believe that I had put myself in this position that I was experiencing this.
00:14:16.879 --> 00:14:26.320
And of course, at that time too, getting to the point of owing back rent, maybe say three months past or four months past.
00:14:28.399 --> 00:14:34.480
And I had had a roommate at that time, so he was paying his half of the rent to me.
00:14:34.799 --> 00:14:43.360
And then I was using that payment to like try to deal with the credit cards or, you know, so I was like falling behind on everything.
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And then creditors are calling, and you know, my mailbox is just filled with attempts to collect and just that overwhelm of being faced with the consequences day after day, but also having like no concept of how to in a point, that safety net is absolutely everything.
00:15:04.960 --> 00:15:09.200
And so there are so many things that I had working to my advantage.
00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:15.360
Like, yes, many things were falling apart, but I lived in a safe place.
00:15:15.600 --> 00:15:24.240
I had friends who often jumped in to like help with an event or help me do flower deliveries that were just so supportive.
00:15:24.399 --> 00:15:28.320
I had people that I could go to if I could get out of my own way.
00:15:28.639 --> 00:15:33.200
I have a great and supportive family who really believed in me.
00:15:33.279 --> 00:15:40.639
So I had a lot of things going for me, and even still, you know, things were really falling apart and I was retreating more and more.
00:15:40.799 --> 00:15:48.320
And so finally I had to fess up about the eviction notice because I just I thought, I'm really screwed here.
00:15:48.480 --> 00:15:50.879
Like I I don't know what's going to happen next.
00:15:51.039 --> 00:15:58.159
And I reached out to my parents and they weren't really in a position to like, they couldn't just be like, oh, we'll take care of it, don't worry.
00:15:58.320 --> 00:16:00.399
But you know, I was just like, help.
00:16:00.720 --> 00:16:02.879
I I don't I don't know how to get out of this.
00:16:02.960 --> 00:16:15.360
And it it took a lot and I was very embarrassed to even say so, but ultimately they helped me to just like get back to a place where I could kind of get a grasp on everything again.
00:16:15.679 --> 00:16:18.720
Um, and I paid them back over time.
00:16:19.279 --> 00:16:29.679
But so like I didn't lose my apartment, but there were a number of of weeks where the uh the eviction notice was on the door.
00:16:29.840 --> 00:16:31.600
I didn't want my roommate to know about it.
00:16:31.759 --> 00:16:33.519
So he's like, what the heck, man?
00:16:33.600 --> 00:16:37.279
I'm paying you rent to stay here and you're not paying the rent.
00:16:37.360 --> 00:16:39.120
Like just terrible.
00:16:39.440 --> 00:16:42.799
It feels crazy in hindsight that that's what was all going on.
00:16:42.960 --> 00:16:46.159
But yeah, so I was very lucky.
00:16:46.320 --> 00:16:53.679
But like you said, you know, health falls apart, which then the compound effect of that alone is so significant.
00:16:54.000 --> 00:17:01.919
The overwhelming feeling of shame, an inability to connect to a support system that feels like a clear path.
00:17:02.240 --> 00:17:12.799
But the difference that is made when someone can offer a hand and say, like, I see what's going on, thank you for telling me all of this, we can figure this out.
00:17:13.359 --> 00:17:21.359
And I enrolled in a debt, like a nonprofit debt relief program called Green Path, which is incredible.
00:17:21.599 --> 00:17:32.000
With all of the debt collectors reaching out, there is so much to sort through, and there are so many things that are not upstanding that are very scammy and predatory.
00:17:32.160 --> 00:17:43.920
And I think that that makes it really challenging too, because you're continuously surrounded by this idea that you don't know who and what to trust when you're already in a place that feels so precarious.
00:17:44.079 --> 00:17:46.400
So I was very grateful to Green Path.
00:17:46.720 --> 00:17:57.680
Um, I was able to meet with them in person in New York City, but they work nationally and were super helpful with helping me make a clear plan and just feeling like I could be in control again.
00:17:57.920 --> 00:18:03.839
And it took me a number of years still to take care of all of that debt finally.
00:18:04.160 --> 00:18:10.319
Um yeah, I think once you kind of feel like there's someone on your side that makes all the difference.
00:18:10.559 --> 00:18:32.799
And I think that right there, what you talked about is, you know, even the people who loved you the most, you were hiding it from them for a while because there's this desire to prove that I got this, I can do this, and I'm gonna show everybody that they their belief and trust in me wasn't a disappointment or it wasn't something that, you know, they should feel that I let them down.
00:18:32.960 --> 00:18:35.279
There's always that that internal pressure of that.
00:18:35.440 --> 00:18:47.200
And I think that that relates so much to what a lot of people can experience is when you lose a job and you don't want to tell anybody that you lost your job because, you know, what's society gonna say?
00:18:47.279 --> 00:18:48.000
What's image?
00:18:48.160 --> 00:18:50.480
And, you know, there's this upkeep you want to have.
00:18:50.640 --> 00:18:55.440
You look at your peers who are like killing it in their industries and you're like, what am I doing?
00:18:55.680 --> 00:19:01.440
And or you're, you know, you have you lose your health insurance or you have a massive health insurance bill.
00:19:01.680 --> 00:19:08.559
People who families where, you know, you end up having someone who gets very, very ill and and they don't have the best insurance through their company.
00:19:08.640 --> 00:19:11.839
So even though they have insurance, it's not great insurance.
00:19:11.920 --> 00:19:14.960
And then they're on top of that, not making a lot of money.
00:19:15.200 --> 00:19:26.400
And so it's not even business owners, it's even people are working within a regular nine to five job or working a service industry job, and they're doing everything in their power to do it.
00:19:26.559 --> 00:19:40.799
And I think that that is one of the biggest, biggest challenges in our society today is that we have these, we have these organizations, like you had Green Path, we have these organizations there to help and set up, like we want to help you.
00:19:41.039 --> 00:19:54.400
But that first step of I need to get out of my own way and accept the help because we live in the society that has just ingrained it that if you ask for help, that means that you've lost, that you're weak.
00:19:54.640 --> 00:20:08.640
And so then we take that type of belief system, we apply it to an entire group of individuals who are working really hard, yet still living in homeless shelters, yet still living, you know, in their cars.
00:20:09.039 --> 00:20:18.480
And, but yet they have a job because our jobs and the salaries have not kept up with the price of the housing crisis that we have.
00:20:18.640 --> 00:20:27.599
And so this notion that, oh, well, the people who ultimately ended up on the streets or ended up in the shelters were making very different decisions.
00:20:27.759 --> 00:20:28.880
That could never be me.
00:20:29.039 --> 00:20:35.680
That's not, you know, um, I like I don't know anyone in my life in my circle that would end up in that situation.
00:20:35.920 --> 00:20:39.759
And here you are with an almost eviction notice, almost getting there.
00:20:39.920 --> 00:20:51.920
And I think that it's very, very important to dismantle that belief system that the individuals that are on the streets or in the shelters are lazy, are not working, are drug addicts, mental health issues.
00:20:52.079 --> 00:21:00.720
It's typically that becomes a byproduct because now you have this stress of my gosh, I don't even have my basic safety measures.
00:21:00.799 --> 00:21:05.039
How am I supposed to think about anything else if I can't even take care of my basic needs?
00:21:05.200 --> 00:21:14.319
And now if I'm on in the shelter, if I'm in the streets, I also have to think about as a woman, my safety in a whole other sense of your physical safety as well.
00:21:14.559 --> 00:21:15.920
Yeah, exactly.
00:21:16.160 --> 00:21:17.039
Absolutely.
00:21:17.279 --> 00:21:18.480
So many things.
00:21:18.799 --> 00:21:19.119
Right.
00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:22.160
And it's it's so true.
00:21:22.240 --> 00:21:26.000
It's like everyone really is trying their best.
00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:33.599
And there are so many circumstances that can present that get in the way of that that make things so challenging.
00:21:33.839 --> 00:21:37.119
And, you know, this isn't like a poor me story.
00:21:37.279 --> 00:21:48.400
Like this in no way was like this is just how things went and like how I was trying to navigate this life that I was trying to live.
00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:50.319
It's not an uncommon story.
00:21:50.400 --> 00:21:51.200
That's the thing.
00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:53.519
It's not actually that uncommon.
00:21:53.839 --> 00:21:58.799
There's almost these like stories that get built off of, you know, for example, we let's just take living in New York.
00:21:58.880 --> 00:22:01.440
Living in New York is all Ready a resilience builder.
00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:16.160
And then, you know, and on top of that, it's like there's this grit about, you know, you live in the tiniest apartment and it's got like maybe a step that's missing, and there's rats coming around, and it's like considered a win if you get through that day, right?
00:22:16.319 --> 00:22:27.119
And it's just we've baked it into our culture that, you know, it's okay to take these crazy risks because then it's gonna have crazy wins.
00:22:27.279 --> 00:23:00.000
And that can happen even again if you're not a business owner, but you are working in an organization, but you're like, all right, I'm gonna start investing money because I see what's happening on Shark Tank and what I'm seeing happening on this, you know, and we build this media sensation around doing things that um people are just eager for sometimes for fast cash, or sometimes we don't have, we haven't built the infrastructure of teaching about financial responsibility in high school, you know, teaching basic like what does a, you know, how do you think about taxes?
00:23:00.079 --> 00:23:00.960
How do you think about these things?
00:23:01.039 --> 00:23:04.400
Like our day-to-day are not actually taught in our education system.
00:23:04.559 --> 00:23:08.960
And so we're we're led to this place where it's uh you're in it for yourself.
00:23:09.200 --> 00:23:15.440
Yes, I think that's a good point too, because I I feel like growing up, we didn't really talk about money.
00:23:15.680 --> 00:23:20.319
I had the perception, I mean, we weren't rich, but I always felt rich.
00:23:20.480 --> 00:23:25.359
Like I my parents offered us a very, my sister and I, a very rich experience.
00:23:25.599 --> 00:23:32.640
And there's this sort of thinking, I think, that was instilled that was like, if you want something, you can have it, kind of.
00:23:32.960 --> 00:23:40.720
Uh maybe without a proper understanding of what it really takes, though, to get that thing that you want and how to do so responsibly.
00:23:40.960 --> 00:23:52.720
So I don't think I had instilled in me a proper understanding of how to manage finances, how to really think about budgeting, how to ensure that I had a safety net before taking a risk.
00:23:52.960 --> 00:23:55.839
There's just that idea that like I could go for something.
00:23:56.000 --> 00:24:00.400
I, you know, I could try, which is cool to an extent.
00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:04.960
But obviously there are a lot of things that I learned the hardware hard way.
00:24:05.039 --> 00:24:16.079
And I say that because, you know, someone listening might say, well, like, come on, like, okay, you didn't know how to budget, you didn't know how to think responsibly about your finances, give me a break.
00:24:16.319 --> 00:24:39.279
But I say that because there are so many things, like whether it's about personal finances or not, that if they're not modeled for you, if it's not modeled for you in a productive way, it's really a big task to just assume that someone will otherwise figure it out without seeing it or being presented with an understanding of how to do something a certain way.
00:24:39.440 --> 00:24:42.319
It's unlikely in some cases that someone will just know.
00:24:42.480 --> 00:24:55.039
And I think that that kind of leads into a number of misconceptions about how people end up experiencing housing insecurity and homelessness and are working to try to get back on their feet too.
00:24:55.200 --> 00:25:03.839
And like to your point, too, many people experiencing homelessness do have one, two, three jobs that still aren't enough.
00:25:04.079 --> 00:25:17.119
But it's those things that we may not have learned, that someone may not have taught us, that we didn't grow up in an environment that nurtured us in such a way that we were best equipped to be resilient and to handle the challenges.
00:25:17.359 --> 00:25:20.400
And I think it's important to not just count that.
00:25:20.720 --> 00:25:22.640
Yeah, I couldn't agree more with you.
00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:47.119
I think that there's you see this happen, you know, the more you expose yourself to different demographics and different socioeconomic classes, the way that a wealthy person teaches their kids about money and how to think about money or the access that they have about thinking about starting a business or starting a fund, you know, is not the same reality or world that someone who's middle class is thinking about.
00:25:47.200 --> 00:25:58.079
And middle class is very much thinking about, you know, get your education and your education is your ticket to, you know, raising your socioeconomic class to all the opportunities in the world.
00:25:58.319 --> 00:26:02.000
But, you know, with that education comes a massive price.
00:26:02.160 --> 00:26:10.559
It comes the student loan debt, it comes all of these other pieces of there that, again, you're not told or taught about how they impact each other.
00:26:10.720 --> 00:26:14.960
Then you take it to the lower class where they're just thinking about like, how are we gonna make ends meet tomorrow?
00:26:15.119 --> 00:26:18.240
How is how is it gonna, you know, what are we doing for the next day?
00:26:18.480 --> 00:26:27.119
And so where do they even have that space to breathe and think to themselves, okay, well, I've got$20 in my pocket.
00:26:27.279 --> 00:26:34.240
How do I actually take that$20, make like 10, use 10 of it, and the other 10 makes 10 work for me, right?
00:26:34.319 --> 00:26:41.119
It's just, it's not like those conversations aren't happening at necessarily at those different levels, or they are happening at some levels, not at others.
00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:49.279
And to your point, the other part about that is that like when it's not modeled to you, it's an ingrained behavior belief that you have, right?
00:26:49.359 --> 00:26:57.519
So you have this belief that, okay, well, you know, whatever I want to have happen will happen for me because that's what I've seen and that's what I've experienced.
00:26:57.680 --> 00:27:08.480
And someone else may have that same belief of, you know, especially with parents who grow up thinking from a different generation that think you're not supposed to bring your kids into conversations about money.
00:27:08.640 --> 00:27:15.119
This is an adult conversation, this isn't about kids, you know, um, we're not gonna let them know that we can't afford this.
00:27:15.279 --> 00:27:17.279
Like maybe we'll say something else to them.
00:27:17.440 --> 00:27:19.279
So it's there's so much shame.
00:27:19.359 --> 00:27:21.039
And then take women on top of that.
00:27:21.279 --> 00:27:29.200
Women are then encouraged to not talk about money because it's not ladylike, you know, again, from different cultural perspectives.
00:27:29.440 --> 00:27:39.359
So to your point, you're brought into it's not just about the finances and the decision making around how you're making your money work for you.
00:27:39.519 --> 00:27:48.880
It's so much of it is the psychology, the behavior, the mindset and the people that you're around, the society and the culture and what that's told you.
00:27:49.039 --> 00:28:00.880
So it's like you can get that 20, you can get out of debt, but then the chances are getting back into debt is gonna happen again because you haven't learned, okay, well, what like how do I change the behavior, the tools that you need?
00:28:01.200 --> 00:28:06.240
And so when we look at those individuals that are living in shelters, they want to have a nice place.
00:28:06.400 --> 00:28:09.440
They want to be able to live comfortably, they want to have the dignity.
00:28:09.599 --> 00:28:17.680
And that's what I think is so powerful and beautiful about what Bombas does is that it's focused on the dignity of the human being.
00:28:17.920 --> 00:28:36.240
And that just because someone lives in a shelter does not mean that they should be without, you know, the basic resources, clothing, socks, like the most needed things to make themselves feel somewhat protected and not fully exposed, you could say, in in the most vulnerable way.
00:28:36.559 --> 00:28:36.880
Yes.
00:28:37.039 --> 00:28:45.279
And being in a position like that where your self-worth is often declining, where it's really hard to carry that resiliency from day to day.
00:28:45.519 --> 00:28:50.319
I think that was the thing that really spoke to me about Bombus from the very beginning.
00:28:50.480 --> 00:28:56.880
So I had the opportunity to interview for the role that I have now back in 2016.
00:28:56.960 --> 00:28:59.359
So I'd had the flower business for five years.
00:28:59.599 --> 00:29:01.119
Things really kind of fell apart.
00:29:01.279 --> 00:29:04.160
I'd realized how much I needed to focus on my health.
00:29:04.480 --> 00:29:12.400
I was back to a place of stability, thank goodness, but still had a bit of a road to go down.
00:29:12.559 --> 00:29:29.200
I had the opportunity for this interview, and I remember being told that I could interview for this position, and I was so overwhelmed by the idea that this was something that I could do or like that I could have potentially.
00:29:29.440 --> 00:29:56.079
And I remember going home and sitting and meditating, and all of this good just sort of welled up while I was meditating on it, and I thought, oh my gosh, like this is this is the thing that I think I've been chasing all of this time, this idea of something that has a much deeper meaning, that's so much bigger than me, something that I could potentially contribute to that would help people in a real way.
00:29:56.559 --> 00:30:14.160
And so then I started preparing for the interviews and and got so excited about the potential of bringing beauty and thoughtfulness and dignity to a community that is so often given the leftovers at best.
00:30:15.039 --> 00:30:19.119
Well, this should be good enough, you know, kind of things.
00:30:19.519 --> 00:30:26.079
Assuming, like you said, that they're any different that people experiencing this hardship are any different than us.
00:30:26.880 --> 00:30:53.440
And that's what kills me is just this misconception that's held by so many that somehow we devalue humans who are having a hard time going through a tough time and then also deciding, like casting a value judgment that they don't deserve the good things, the new things, the kind things, the compassionate things.
00:30:53.839 --> 00:31:24.480
And that's even though I, you know, didn't have a background in the nonprofit space or in this role that I ultimately took on, what I think the line was between my work and fashion production and then having the flower business was everything was kind of built around bringing people together to create something beautiful, to create a sense of community, to admire beauty and project beauty.
00:31:24.720 --> 00:31:29.759
And I just that's sort of how I like to live my life.
00:31:29.920 --> 00:31:36.480
Like I I love to bring like special touches to the everyday moments and celebrate things and people.
00:31:36.799 --> 00:31:46.640
And so I was so energized by the opportunity to bring that mentality to a group of people that deserve it so so much.
00:31:46.799 --> 00:31:56.640
And if that can help boost their feelings of self-worth just a little bit, can lead to that feeling of being like, okay, I can be a little bit more resilient today.
00:31:56.880 --> 00:31:58.720
I might be able to take that next step.
00:31:58.799 --> 00:32:02.559
And just knowing how truly meaningful that is.
00:32:02.720 --> 00:32:04.319
I mean, we've all felt it, right?
00:32:04.400 --> 00:32:20.720
You're having like a terrible day, and then you have this interaction with a cashier, maybe, and you just have like a nice normal conversation, and all of a sudden it just changes your whole mindset and things feel just a little bit easier, or you're a little bit more capable.
00:32:20.960 --> 00:32:27.680
And so I don't think we can undervalue the impact of those small moments that really can add up.
00:32:32.400 --> 00:32:42.160
It's just the journey of our lives is that we're able to take the different experiences and tie it all beautifully together for making meaningful impact.
00:32:42.319 --> 00:33:03.200
And what you've been able to do at Bomba is with being able to have over 4,000 giving partner organizations and a very large wait list of many more, and across all 50 states and, you know, in partners that including like, you know, shelters and transitional living programs, veteran programs.
00:33:03.359 --> 00:33:08.240
I mean, you're touching LGBTQ, you know, youth, like domestic violence programs.
00:33:08.319 --> 00:33:14.480
I mean, the number is just staggering with the type of impact that Bombas is able to make.
00:33:14.640 --> 00:33:45.359
And I think that what is just so interwoven in your story and the way that you've been able to make these partnerships happen and the success and the impact that you're able to capture through all of that is the fact that you've proven, and Bombas has proven, just the leadership team has proven, that social good and caring for other people, giving dignity can be very well and successfully woven into the actual organization's values, beliefs, and actions.
00:33:45.519 --> 00:33:48.640
And it's still profitable, it's still productive.
00:33:48.799 --> 00:33:54.559
In fact, it's probably more profitable because of the meaning that is behind it and the work that's been done.
00:33:54.720 --> 00:34:04.720
And so, you know, I admire that because I think that there's so much of this notion of it's not corporate's responsibility to take care of the world.
00:34:04.880 --> 00:34:13.039
We're here to just do what we do best, and that may be making machines, delivering this product, you know, that's what we're here for.
00:34:13.199 --> 00:34:15.599
Come here, work, do your thing, and go out.
00:34:15.760 --> 00:34:22.400
But it's like we've built a community in a society where so much is actually baked into the organization.
00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:25.199
I mean, if you lose your job, you lose health insurance.
00:34:25.360 --> 00:34:28.079
So how can an organization not be responsible for that?
00:34:28.320 --> 00:34:34.639
If we lose our, you know, if you're not getting paid well, you're you're now not able to afford housing.
00:34:34.800 --> 00:34:38.960
You know, you may be able to get a job in New York, but can the job in New York actually sustain your life?
00:34:39.119 --> 00:34:40.800
Like, can you actually think about retirement?
00:34:40.960 --> 00:34:43.280
Can you actually think about having a family?
00:34:43.519 --> 00:34:53.920
There's so many decisions that get that that an organization makes that actually does ripple into the way that society ends up functioning.
00:34:54.239 --> 00:35:10.639
So, you know, I just I want to understand from you that how is it that Bombas is able to stay so close to their mission and continually, you know, produce for communities and find that to be the ethos of what they believe in.
00:35:10.719 --> 00:35:13.519
And it's not just about selling really great socks.
00:35:13.840 --> 00:35:14.159
Yeah.
00:35:14.320 --> 00:35:22.159
I and you raised such a great point about the responsibility that corporations business really does have to care for their employees.
00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:35.280
And when that falls away, I mean, and I I guess I would couple that with the idea that as general societal trust is waning in areas like trust in government is at an all-time low.
00:35:35.360 --> 00:35:42.239
For example, uh trust in private business, it's actually at an all-time high.
00:35:42.559 --> 00:35:52.480
We are looking to both our employers and to the businesses that we patronize as consumers and that we look to as leaders to do the right thing.
00:35:52.800 --> 00:36:05.440
You know, when we feel like there's a lack of that sort of leadership in other places, more and more we're looking for more in our day-to-day, like right, whether it's our place of employment or or who we're spending money with.
00:36:05.679 --> 00:36:08.400
And I still kind of pinch myself.
00:36:08.480 --> 00:36:10.719
I've been a bombist for just about 10 years.
00:36:10.880 --> 00:36:20.079
And the fact that, yeah, our our commitment to mission is just as strong, if not stronger really, than it was from the very beginning.
00:36:20.320 --> 00:36:29.519
And I think overall it is this alignment in belief that this matters and it's important.
00:36:29.679 --> 00:36:32.400
It's something that we're not going to compromise on.
00:36:32.800 --> 00:36:37.599
And that alignment has to start at the top.
00:36:37.760 --> 00:36:41.119
It doesn't have to start at the top, but it has to exist at the top.
00:36:41.360 --> 00:36:43.519
For us, it started at the top.
00:36:43.840 --> 00:36:51.039
And so it's not like, you know, a small group over here that's focused on social good within a larger company.
00:36:51.119 --> 00:36:56.000
And of course, it's amazing that those groups do exist across many companies.
00:36:56.320 --> 00:37:07.679
But in order for it to have long-term, widespread, sustainable impact, it can't be disconnected from leadership, from the overall company ethos.
00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:29.199
And I think that that is a little bit of the challenge now with organizations that are trying to build in social good or are wanting to carry out programming that's sort of unmarried from the beliefs of the company itself, that's going to raise some challenges.
00:37:29.360 --> 00:37:37.920
And again, I do still think it's super important and you know, efforts count and are working towards something big.
00:37:38.079 --> 00:37:45.920
But for us at Bombus, I think the fact that it's so ingrained and there's such an expectation that is set.
00:37:46.320 --> 00:37:50.239
One, it attracts amazing, like-minded talent.
00:37:50.480 --> 00:37:57.599
People want to work here because of our commitment to mission, because it can be part of something that's a bit bigger than ourselves.
00:37:57.760 --> 00:38:02.800
Yes, we have like the stressful day-to-day of all of the different business challenges.
00:38:02.960 --> 00:38:16.079
But when it comes down to it, the reason that we're all here is to produce amazing product that people want and we need them to want it and love it because that's truly what fuels our give back.
00:38:16.800 --> 00:38:23.920
And yes, we could make more profit if we didn't have a mission, but that was that's the big decision.
00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:36.239
And and I think that's what it comes down to, you know, like you were saying, it's just a decision to make a little less profit, and many corporations could do that.
00:38:36.960 --> 00:38:43.119
And I, you know, I recently had another guest who is phenomenal, and I actually really want to introduce you to her.
00:38:43.280 --> 00:38:43.920
She's incredible.
00:38:44.000 --> 00:38:48.719
She's also based in New York, and she does a lot of business modeling, design thinking.
00:38:48.880 --> 00:39:07.920
And one thing that she said on the podcast was about the focus when you think about social challenges and when you think about how do you tie the business to be meaningful, profitable, but it's looking at it as not, it's profit making, not profit prioritizing.
00:39:08.239 --> 00:39:16.800
So when you're profit prioritizing, you're actually then compromising on your belief systems because you've made that the most important piece.
00:39:17.039 --> 00:39:23.920
But when you're profit making, you're prioritizing the people, you're prioritizing your values, you're prioritizing the impact.
00:39:24.159 --> 00:39:28.079
And through that, you're still profitable, you're still doing well.
00:39:28.320 --> 00:39:31.440
It's just not a chase to only the number.
00:39:31.519 --> 00:39:46.960
The the actual profit, if you look at it, it becomes the profit, it becomes your numbers, it becomes the impact, it becomes the trust of your employees, it becomes so many more of the intangibles that actually then continue to keep weaving into the organization.
00:39:47.039 --> 00:39:59.519
And that's what I find Bombas and what the work that you've done as you know, the VP and of doing impact work there believing in is that it's profit making and prioritizing people and community.
00:39:59.599 --> 00:40:01.440
It's not profit prioritizing.
00:40:01.679 --> 00:40:02.960
I love that framing.
00:40:03.039 --> 00:40:04.159
That's such a good way to put it.
00:40:04.320 --> 00:40:05.679
And you're absolutely right.
00:40:05.920 --> 00:40:08.960
The two can exist alongside one another.
00:40:09.119 --> 00:40:12.559
It doesn't have to be a choice of one or the other.
00:40:13.199 --> 00:40:14.960
And I think that's what I would.
00:40:15.440 --> 00:40:28.639
And I guess I will say there are so many companies who are doing great work that I think they just don't often talk about, that we don't know about as consumers.
00:40:29.119 --> 00:40:51.760
And that's that's I think like a big challenge for us all in the business community is to talk more about what's working, what's possible, what commitments are important to us, and not just have it be a tagline that reads us marketing or like a pat ourselves on the back kind of thing.
00:40:52.079 --> 00:41:23.039
But standing in the responsibility that we all have to contribute in a bigger way when there is such a major discrepancy and disparities in wealth and the challenges that someone here are facing, it just feels incredibly disappointing to be profit prioritizing when there's more that could be done pretty easily with just the right belief system, I think.
00:41:23.360 --> 00:42:02.800
And what would you say is, you know, if a just thinking about the listeners who are listening, you know, if there's one thing that a leader in an organization that could do, like maybe it's it's a small business owner, it's a nonprofit leader, it's a it is a leader at a large organization, and maybe they don't necessarily have those direct profit-making belief systems at the larger scale, but what is that one step that they could take to start seeing that the way that they create impact is more valuable if they were to consider it from a profit-making perspective versus a profit prioritizing?
00:42:03.119 --> 00:42:08.880
I think it starts with really understanding what it is that you care about.
00:42:09.119 --> 00:42:20.719
There are a lot of things someone can care about that, I mean, even the issue of homelessness and so incredibly complex, it intersects with so many social issues, public health issues.
00:42:21.039 --> 00:42:25.679
The list is long for something a company could choose to invest in or get behind.
00:42:25.760 --> 00:42:30.880
And I think that's what has helped us is that clarity of purpose.
00:42:31.119 --> 00:42:36.079
Everything is really kind of centered around one core goal.
00:42:36.320 --> 00:43:13.039
And so whatever that is for another company, whatever makes sense for them, it's maybe starting there and choosing a thing that's not just like checking a box or like, and obviously, there are so many incredible organizations and causes to support, but I do think it starts there because that allows for that greater cross-company buy-in alignment, rallies people behind it, gives employees something to care for, signals that as a company we care about this particular thing.
00:43:13.280 --> 00:43:26.400
And I know that this might sound small, but the way that we think about issues and challenges really impacts how we act on them.
00:43:35.360 --> 00:43:44.400
I think that the way that we think about issues and challenges directly impacts the way that we will ultimately act on them.
00:43:44.559 --> 00:43:53.119
And so I don't want to underestimate the power of even getting real about why certain challenges exist.
00:43:53.440 --> 00:43:58.400
And you know, we've been talking so much about misconceptions about homelessness, for example.
00:43:58.719 --> 00:44:16.480
And if we can't Debunk those myths or get a better understanding about why those misconceptions exist and frame the issue around the realities of the challenges, the complex challenges, we can't effectively address it.
00:44:16.880 --> 00:44:31.360
So all to say that I think getting real about the thinking of a particular issue is what can significantly impact how we're then acting on something, what feels possible.
00:44:31.840 --> 00:44:34.480
I love that so much because you're so right.
00:44:34.639 --> 00:44:48.480
That reframing of how you're asking a question versus if you're looking at it from a pop of, oh, well, that's such a problem, that's such a challenge, then you're already saying that there isn't anything that's going to fix it.
00:44:48.639 --> 00:44:49.599
So why bother?
00:44:49.760 --> 00:44:52.880
But when we look at it from a place of what are the gaps here?
00:44:53.039 --> 00:44:59.280
What is what hasn't been done before, or what has been done, but what was something that could get tweaked within that?
00:44:59.440 --> 00:45:25.199
I also think that what's so powerful that you guys do is you take that, you take those, the purpose, the values, and what the organization believes in and you truly act on it, not just from a place of, you know, the give back that you obviously do, but even, for example, when you hit the 100 million donations, you didn't throw a big party about this.
00:45:25.360 --> 00:45:28.239
You didn't do something that was more indulgent.
00:45:28.400 --> 00:45:33.599
You went ahead and put billboards across New York City that stated facts about homelessness.
00:45:33.679 --> 00:45:41.119
So it's continues and perpetuates that education and debunking of myths and continues to bring knowledge and awareness.
00:45:41.280 --> 00:45:48.079
So it's like everything is truly directed, like you said, about that one purpose that we have here, that one goal.
00:45:48.239 --> 00:46:02.639
And so is when you're thinking about those questions that you're asking yourself, like, okay, yes, we had this big moment, but what is now the momentum that we carry through this moment versus, all right, we did our thing, check, now let's throw a party.
00:46:02.960 --> 00:46:12.480
And I think that that is the different thinking is that you're looking at this as a marathon and not just as these quick sprints of check, we did this, check that happened.
00:46:12.559 --> 00:46:19.280
And I think when you think from a transactional place of causes, then it's going to feel like misaligned.
00:46:19.440 --> 00:46:31.920
But when you see it from a place of relationship, that we are in relationship with the society that we live within, the people who consume our products, the people who are living with us, who are working here, we're in relationship with them.
00:46:32.079 --> 00:46:35.840
Then the work that you're doing is like it's carrying that momentum forward.
00:46:35.920 --> 00:46:40.559
And that's, I think that those billboards were exactly a note, a note of that.
00:46:41.039 --> 00:46:42.239
Thank you for saying that.
00:46:42.480 --> 00:46:45.519
Yeah, I love this idea of being in constant relationship.
00:46:45.599 --> 00:46:47.119
That's such a great way to put it.
00:46:47.360 --> 00:46:53.519
And I think how we think about our relationships with our network of our giving partners, we're always trying to get to know.
00:46:53.679 --> 00:47:08.239
I mean, it's hard to get to know all 4,000, but we're always trying our very best to know more about them, to have it move beyond just the transactional aspect of sending an organization the socks that they need, for example.
00:47:08.400 --> 00:47:22.480
But I think when you frame it as that ongoing relationship, both with our nonprofit partners and our customers and our internal Bombus community, it allows for room for constant evolution.
00:47:22.639 --> 00:47:25.599
It's that truly relationship, right?
00:47:25.679 --> 00:47:27.440
It's like the back and forth.
00:47:27.599 --> 00:47:28.639
It's the word.
00:47:29.360 --> 00:47:49.119
We have that relationship, it allows for space that promotes curiosity, it allows us to ask questions, it allows it to be dynamic so that even if our focus is very singular, we I think it's really important that that evolution continues.
00:47:49.519 --> 00:48:01.440
And as we learn more and more about the topics of homelessness, specific challenges that our giving partners are facing, the role that we can play.
00:48:01.679 --> 00:48:21.360
What we always kind of say is we can't unknow what we now know and to ignore the responsibility that the growing responsibility that I feel we have to our partners, to people who are experiencing housing insecurity and homelessness, we have to keep pushing that forward.
00:48:21.519 --> 00:48:24.079
So it will always be centered around our core mission.
00:48:24.159 --> 00:48:31.760
But I think that allows that opportunity to continue to expand and to use that curiosity to say, you know, why is that?
00:48:31.920 --> 00:48:33.360
Or what could we do?
00:48:33.440 --> 00:48:34.719
Or what could one do?
00:48:34.800 --> 00:48:36.639
Or what is our responsibility?
00:48:36.880 --> 00:48:41.760
And that's what really continues to drive the evolution of our mission, I would say.
00:48:42.079 --> 00:48:45.440
Kelly, thank you so much for being here on Referring Perspectives.
00:48:45.679 --> 00:49:03.679
Everything that you've shared from your very vulnerable story to the relationships that, you know, that have built your life into seeing more meaning and purpose and connecting it with the social good that that uh Bombas is doing has been just a beautiful, beautiful time spent.
00:49:03.760 --> 00:49:18.239
And I really, really hope that all the listeners who are listening to your story and listening to this notice and pay attention to the fact that, you know, there are an abundance of ways for us to support each other and to be in community and relationship.
00:49:18.400 --> 00:49:20.320
And you don't have to do it alone.
00:49:20.480 --> 00:49:22.800
You don't have to be in it alone.
00:49:23.039 --> 00:49:29.119
And there's many ways to get that support and systems if we continue to be in relationship with each other.
00:49:29.280 --> 00:49:31.760
So thank you so much, Kelly, for being here.
00:49:32.079 --> 00:49:32.800
Thank you so much.
00:49:32.960 --> 00:49:34.719
What a pleasure to chat today.
00:49:35.199 --> 00:49:35.840
Definitely.
00:49:36.079 --> 00:49:36.719
Hi, friends.
00:49:36.880 --> 00:49:38.480
I have a favor to ask you.
00:49:38.639 --> 00:49:47.119
If you're finding meaning and you're really resonating with these episodes, I'd love if you could subscribe, leave a review, or share it with your friends and family.
00:49:47.280 --> 00:49:51.760
Your words help others discover the stories and perspectives that we're exploring over here.
00:49:51.920 --> 00:50:01.599
And the more that we grow and the more feedback that we get from you through these reviews, the more we can make sure to create meaningful episodes that you're gonna enjoy.
00:50:01.760 --> 00:50:07.360
You have no idea how much it means to me and how much it means to creating these podcast episodes for you.
00:50:07.440 --> 00:50:08.639
And I'd appreciate it so much.
00:50:08.800 --> 00:50:14.000
So subscribe, follow, re leave a review, and share it with your family and friends.
00:50:14.639 --> 00:50:15.119
Thank you so much.
