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Hi there, and thanks for joining me for episode 84 of Practically Ranching.
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I'm Matt Perrier, and we're here thanks to Dalebanks Angus, your home for practical profitable genetics since 1904.
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If you're in the market for bulls this spring, we'll sell a nice group of about 80 yearling and coming two year olds at private treaty starting in mid-March.
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For info and prices on the bulls, email me at Matt mattperrier@dalebanks.com and we'll get you the list as soon as we can in early March.
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This week, I got to visit with Dr.
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Tom Carr.
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Dr.
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Carr is a professor emeritus of meat science from the University of Illinois.
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And while Dr.
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Carr spent 36 years on the faculty there at U of I, he's a native Kansan, and he came back to his hometown of Medicine Lodge upon his retirement in 2010.
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You know, he spent a, a lifetime helping producers produce better beef and pork.
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He instructed countless students in meat science and he coached meats judging and evaluation teams.
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He's led research, he's taught, he's coached, and most of all, he's given back to those who need it.
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You know, through all these episodes, I get to talk with some pretty smart folks.
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Pretty visionary folks.
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Hardworking folks.
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Kind folks.
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Dr.
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Carr is all of those rolled into one?
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You know, I mentioned in the podcast that I've had multiple listeners suggest Tom as a guest, and after hearing him recount his career and all the lives that he's touched, it became pretty evident why I think that everyone who knows Dr.
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Carr loves Dr.
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Carr.
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We talk about several obvious meat science topics.
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We share a few stories about judging teams, but this is one of those episodes that reminds me that even though learning and and doing are really important, it's the people in our lives that really make the difference.
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Guys like Tom Carr not only share knowledge, they share their heart with everybody around them.
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Most of us have people who were instrumental in our achievements.
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Mm-hmm.
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And Dr.
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Carr recognized that pretty early in life and he continues to try and pay that back with his service to his community and to the meat industry.
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He learned by folks' example, and now he's that example for the rest of us.
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He reminded me of the importance of, of service to those around us, and I hope you'll feel the same as you hear this conversation with Dr.
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Tom Carr.
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We had a little bit of snow 10 days ago and about four, maybe five inches.
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but that's all we have had, uh, December, January's extremely dry and, uh, we had no moisture really in December.
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So that's a little disconcerting to us,
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Yeah.
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As you know, uh, as a Barber County resident and let's see, a Barber County native.
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Right.
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If
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right?
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back
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Yep.
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Yes, yes.
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not the first time in history that Medicine Lodge has been dry.
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Right.
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No, it's usually, uh, pretty normal.
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I'm afraid to say.
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So that's a, that's a pretty good lead in for kind of the full circle that you have completed.
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We'll touch, uh, we'll talk a little bit more here about your time there at Animal Sciences and Industry at U of I, uh, later on.
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But you're back in rural America, rural Kansas.
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What brought you there as a retired professor?
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Emus of, Florida or Arizona or someplace.
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A little, uh, more temperate.
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That, that's an excellent question and a, as you well know, being, being a native and, and, and, uh, being of the land, my brother and I still co-own our small family ranch between Medicine Lodge and Cold Water.
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And we've only got about a thousand acres, but, uh, uh, the land is always a draw.
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And, uh,, when my wife and I, made the decision, uh, to move back, it was to get back to the ranch.
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uh, dad died in 1987 and I had a, a second cousin that rented our ranch and then rented my, uh, my aunt's ranch across, the road.
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And, uh, and started about 1988.
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And so that same family, even though the original, gentleman rancher that, that, uh, rented the land passed away, his daughter and son-in-law continued to ranch.
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So we've had the same family renting the ranch, uh, since 1988, which is kind of unbelievable when you think about it.
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And, and, uh, we were having, Red cedar problems and, being in Illinois, my brother living in, uh, Olathe, we weren't here that much.
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We'd get back for maybe Christmas or Thanksgiving and really didn't see the Cedar creep that was coming into the ranch.
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And, uh, had some real, very close neighbors that, uh, told us about a,, a project, an organization that could provide funding for removal of Cedars.
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And, uh, so we signed up to do that in about 2005.
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But the long story of it is, you know,, wanting to get back to the ranch.
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And it just, you know, it just drags you, it drags you back.
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And, my wife was willing to do that.
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So, uh, we made the decision to do that.
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And I retired in August of 2010.
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My family owned a house here on, on Main Street, when dad came back from World War II in 45, uh, my grandparents moved from the ranch in and bought this house on Main Street, uh, in 46.
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And so we've had that house in our family since, since 1946., Mom and dad and my brother and I lived out on the ranch while my grandparents lived in town, and, and my brother and I maintained that, that old house.
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And when I came back, my brother said, buy my part out.
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He said, demolish that house and build a new one.
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And so, uh, when we moved back to Medicine Launch, we were known as a couple that built a new house on Main Street.
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Well, that's, that's not, um, probably too surprising, uh, in, in small towns when somebody comes in and does something significant, uh, everybody notices.
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I'm still chuckling over the fact that it was the Eastern red cedar that brought you back to Medicine Lodge.
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That's, that's, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
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You wanted to, to get on top of, uh, uh, cedar removal and so you just, that was, that was your retirement gig.
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Yeah, well my, my poor wife, uh, we, we came, when we moved back, our dear neighbor to the south of us said, Hey, how about putting, uh, a 3.2 mile new fence and share it 50 50 on the south side of the ranch?
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And I said, I'm all for that.
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But the problem was we have massive cedars growing in the fences all the way around our, our perimeter of 6.2 miles.
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So, my wife, I told my wife, I said, well, we're gonna start cutting cedars out of the fences.
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And we started in March of 2011.
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And my Lord, it took us a year, year and a half.
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You know,
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You
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to get that job done before we could really start to build a new, perimeter fence on our south side.
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You know, that was quite an undertaking.
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She didn't bargain for that.
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But bless her heart, she helped me the whole time.
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And, uh, so, uh, we got that job done.
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But, uh, I tell you, there's nothing, Cedars just puts the fear of God in me.
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We drive by, we both look at each other and think we need to grab a chainsaw and run out there and get'em.
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Yep.
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yeah.
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uh, not probably every retiree has, uh, saved everything they could for four or five decades just so they could come home and cut cedars for the rest of their, uh, retirement.
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But that's great.
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I think that says a lot about, about you and your work ethic and your tie to the land, and, um, probably would any student or um, uh, team member or anybody else that worked with you there at U of I probably could say that they saw the same work ethic back then too.
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tell us a little bit about that, uh, professional career you know, and, and even your schooling back to undergrad and master's and, and, um,
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Yeah.
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PhD work and, and what took you to university of Illinois.
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Right.
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Well, as, as you well know, four H had a unbelievable impact in my life.
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And, uh, when we had the.
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Uh, he started in four H at, I think age eight, something like that.
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And, uh, had several young men, uh, that, uh, went to K State right after they got outta the service, whether it was Korea, world War ii, whatever it might be, and, and came back to the ranches.
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And two or three of those guys, uh, really jumped in and volunteered in, in, in teaching and coaching, livestock judging.
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And at that point in time, we had a tremendously good extension agent who was all about educating the kids.
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And so us kids in the, in the, the fifties, early sixties, had the opportunity to, to be on county, livestock judging teams, range judging teams, land judging teams that basically were in national contests and, and it was a, an emphasis by our extension programming in our county.
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And, uh, that had a tremendous impact on me.
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And so in livestock judging of course, we got acclimated to Don Good and Miles McKee at all the lifestyle judging contests, regional district, whatever it might be, state contest.
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And so, you know, Kansas State was, uh, the place to go.
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And I was the first of our family ever to go to college.
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And mom and dad, you know, that that was their thing, is to make sure both of us, uh, got to college.
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And so we did that.
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And, uh, when I went to K State, As an undergrad, uh, one of my goals was, to, uh, be on the livestock judging team.
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We did not have meats judging in four H in Barber County at that point in time, although obviously meets judging in four H was in Kansas, but we didn't have it in Barber County.
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So I never got indoctrinated or introduced to me judging or, or meets until I took, you know, the introductory meat science class.
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And just so happened, a new, professor had joined K State about that time named Dr.
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Dell Allen.
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And uh, so I kind of got in through enthused with, uh,
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smallest
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the meat side of things and, uh.
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Dell asked me if I would come out for the judge team.
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Well, I did that as a junior rather than as a sophomore.
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And some of the guys, I had to be in FarmHouse fraternity, and some of the guys were on the meets team and said, you need to do this.
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And so, uh, I, I did and, really got into it.
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I, uh, kind of an interesting story.
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I, that made me, a little behind as far as my wanting to be on the livestock judging team.
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And so I should have graduated in, in, in the spring of 68.
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And, uh, I came home and told dad, I said, dad, I, I said, I, I wanna be on the livestock judging team, and I'll have to go an extra semester.
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And he said, well, that's okay.
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He says, you just trot yourself right down to the bank and borrow the money.
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And so I, I did that and uh, you know, at that point in time, those loans for student loans, unbelievably low interest rate, I don't know whether it was 2%, something like that.
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And so I come out and, and, uh, he said, well, how did it go?
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And I said, really good.
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I said, I, I borrowed$500 for such and such and told him interest.
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He says, my God.
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He says, why didn't you borrow more money?
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I was terrified.
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Anyways, the beginning, you know.
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So anyway, I did that and was on the livestock judging team then, uh, in, in 68.
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And we had great success on that team and uh, uh, it was a great experience.
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And then Dell came back and said, Hey.
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Would you think you'd be interested in possibly getting a master's degree?
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And, uh, I said, yes, I would do that.
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Dad and I had had a very frank discussion.
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My whole plan was to go back to the ranch, but he and granddad were in a partnership.
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And at that point in time, they were through land.
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We owned and, and, and rented, was running about, uh, 3,700 acres and had a cow herd of basically about 150 cows and farmed about 500 acres.
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The rest being pasture.
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But he says, you know, there's, there's not enough room for both of us.
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And he said, you need to find something to do for a while.
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So I had that discussion before Dell had asked me about possibly going on to grad school, and I said, yes, I'll do that.
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And helped with coaching the, the hi his judging teams at that point in time and had uh, uh, really good experience in grad school there.
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Uh, had the opportunity to go to Oklahoma State University, uh, serve as a halftime instructorship while going on to get my PhD under Lowell Walters, uh, at Oklahoma State.
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And, finished that up and had a great experience coach four meets judging teams at oh state.
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And then had the opportunity to go to the University of Illinois assistant professor in a teaching and extension position.
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And, responsibility of coaching a lot the me judging team and co-coaching and meat animal evaluation team.
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And did that for 36 years.
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So that's, that's kind of the, the nuts and bolts of it.,
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I'd say that's a lot and, pretty impressive path and, and one that's not atypical of a lot of judging team coaches of, of emulating some coach that had a big influence on them.
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And I, I love that story of those gentlemen who came back after serving their country in Korea or World War II even before that.
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Um, and then continued to serve by coaching you all as as youth, 4- H teams.
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And that too, you have emulated, have you not?
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Because I remember my kids who were judging for Greenwood County's meats team came back from a state contest probably, yeah, it's been six or eight, maybe 10 years ago.
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And Barber County had, had beaten them or, or given'em a run or something.
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And I said, well, who's, who's coaching Barber County's four H team?
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Because Lyle and Vid had, they, their team had had quite a bit of success and Hannah's as well.
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And, and they said some guy that's a retired meats judging, collegiate meets judging coach from Illinois or someplace.
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And I'm like, Dr.
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Tom Carr is back in the business.
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That's a, that's a fun full circle moment too.
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Are you still helping coach those 4- H teams?
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Yes, I am.
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I am.
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Uh, and, and we got, I guess it'd been about 2011.
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Uh, Tim Marshall was our extension agent at that point in time, and he came to me and said, Hey, would you be interested in helping start, uh, four H me judging team?
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And, and of course I said, yes, I, I would certainly be willing to help and assist with that.
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So we've been at it for a while.
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you know, it's, it's interesting that those, those first kids that I had now, uh, you know,, majority of them are, are married or getting married.
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A couple of'em have kids and, it's, it's so neat to see them now, contributing to, uh, the livestock and meats industry and succeeding and all that good stuff.
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But, uh, yes, it's, it's been, it's been fun and it's, it's challenging, Matt.
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There's so many things that, uh, uh, you know, tear at the kids' interest and, I tell you the biggest problem we have and in, I don't know if Carla has the same problems in Greenwood County or not, but, uh, sports just eats us up.
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And, uh, uh, it, it's, it's tough to balance, all the time requirements and everything that the kids are involved in and, and find time.
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And as you well know, in 4- H mes judging and retail identification, it's a lot of work.
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It's a lot of memorization and there's a lot of kids that just will not spend that much time trying to develop some level of excellence.
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Yeah, after, after having four kids, thus far go through that program.
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Yeah.
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It is a huge time commitment and a huge, uh, just commitment in general.
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And your comment about, sports schedules getting in the way is 100% valid in Greenwood County as well.
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And, and that's something that, our family and that our kids coaches, Carla and Jeanna have struggled with.
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And, and, um, if you ask our kids sports.
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Team coaches, they think that, uh, meats and livestock judging is a real drag on, on the kids' schedule too, because it doesn't allow them to be on every summer team.
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And, you know, all of these, uh, it takes'em away during the season sometimes for contests and workout trips.
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And so, yeah, I think as we look, and this is probably an entire podcast in and of itself, but as we look at kids club ball teams, and I would even throw in.
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and whatever the case may be, it's a different world that we live in today as parents and the level of commitment that is expected and, and, and the specialization that is expected by a lot of coaches and a lot of sports, uh, in general.
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And it doesn't allow kids to have what I consider a fairly well-rounded, um, very broad spectrum upbringing so that they can judge on the meats team and they can also do, um, three sports and they can also have a part-time job and they can also, you know, go on the 4- H Washington focus trip to DC in the summer for 10 days or
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Yeah.
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be.
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Yeah.
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All those get pushed to the back burner.
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And I think it's unfortunate.
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Uh, yes, our kids may be better in a sport or two because of it, but I don't know for sure that we're getting better at life
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Amen.
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Yeah,
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not
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I,
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too
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yep, I agree with you a hundred percent.
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And it, it, it is really challenging.
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I, you know, to,
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You know?
00:20:12.183 --> 00:20:16.354
uh, because there, it is a sa whichever way you go, it's a sacrifice.
00:20:16.443 --> 00:20:22.294
And, and, uh, but, uh, it's really difficult for a kid to be able to do both.
00:20:23.193 --> 00:20:27.253
And we had a young man, uh, and, and you may know him, uh.
00:20:27.429 --> 00:20:27.844
You know.
00:20:27.858 --> 00:20:39.296
Callan Smith that, was just on our 4- h uh, meets team, and I think he might've been on the state, uh, team with, with your daughter or maybe your son, I'm not sure which.
00:20:39.296 --> 00:20:53.047
But anyway,, he was able to, to kind of balance it as far as high school sports is concerned, uh, with being on the, the state team and representing Kansas, you know, at the national contest.
00:20:53.047 --> 00:20:54.606
But it was a challenge even then.
00:20:55.936 --> 00:20:56.537
No doubt.
00:20:56.537 --> 00:21:02.027
And, and some would even say that judging has taken to a, been taken to a new level.
00:21:02.027 --> 00:21:11.957
I know when I was judging, uh, at, in 4- H, we'd go to one or two contests a year, and maybe it was just because Greenwood County wasn't as competitive then as maybe we are now.
00:21:11.957 --> 00:21:15.247
But, there wouldn't be many, if any workouts.
00:21:15.247 --> 00:21:20.570
There sure wouldn't be any, um, week two, week long, there wasn't an all-star state team that I knew of.
00:21:20.570 --> 00:21:23.750
And so that's been taken to a new level as well.
00:21:23.750 --> 00:21:24.171
And, and
00:21:24.480 --> 00:21:24.770
Yeah.
00:21:25.070 --> 00:21:31.760
everybody could probably throw rocks at the other activity that's taking from quote unquote their focus.
00:21:31.760 --> 00:21:33.861
But, uh, yeah, it is, it, it's a lot.
00:21:33.861 --> 00:21:48.621
And, and I, I mean, still maintain that it's excellent for the kids, whether that is their focus or that is something that they somehow squeeze in between academics and other sports teams and, and work and life in general.
00:21:48.921 --> 00:21:52.851
Um, the busiest kids are generally the most successful kids,
00:21:53.076 --> 00:21:53.375
Yep.
00:21:53.510 --> 00:21:53.840
I,
00:21:53.885 --> 00:21:54.875
Without question.
00:21:54.980 --> 00:21:56.901
and I see it all the way through adulthood.
00:21:56.901 --> 00:22:01.790
They learn to prioritize their time and they learn to put priorities on what's most important.
00:22:01.790 --> 00:22:08.540
And they know that they're gonna have some adversity in the other areas, maybe from challenges and coaches and things like that.
00:22:08.540 --> 00:22:11.871
But, uh, yeah, I, I think it's a good life lesson for'em to balance all those.
00:22:12.346 --> 00:22:12.566
Yep.
00:22:12.635 --> 00:22:13.365
Very definitely.
00:22:13.976 --> 00:22:41.155
And, you know, along those lines, I even think as I see folks that have achieved success, whether it be in production, agriculture, and on volunteer boards or even, uh, agribusiness or doctors and lawyers and bankers and everything else, these kids that grew up on some type of a competition team meats judging livestock, judging range, land judging, whatever the case may be, it seems like.
00:22:41.486 --> 00:23:02.635
Either they have the communication skills that get their foot in the door and get that job, or they have the decision making skills to let them excel, but that's a common thread, and I think a lot of people that are listening to this podcast are probably nodding their head in agreement because they participated on one of those teams, if not several.
00:23:04.046 --> 00:23:25.955
What is it, what's the special sauce that, whether it be collegiate or even 4- H and FFA judging team kids have and learn that develops them into, for lack of a better word, more, service oriented and, and, uh, more effective contributors to society as they go forth.
00:23:26.635 --> 00:23:28.431
That's a really good question.
00:23:28.431 --> 00:23:50.250
You know, and I, and, and as I look back and, and you've already identified, some of the characteristics of, of those individuals that go through a judging experience, I think one of the, the, the biggest, attributes is for most, I think it teaches self-discipline.
00:23:51.467 --> 00:23:51.686
Uh.
00:23:51.761 --> 00:24:08.439
know, time management becomes a, a, a huge factor, uh, especially for those kids that are participating in on collegiate teams and everything they've got going on with academics and other clubs responsibilities and things like that.
00:24:08.979 --> 00:24:12.679
Trying to, organize, their time.
00:24:12.989 --> 00:24:17.009
That, that's a huge lesson to learn there and, and.
00:24:17.266 --> 00:24:19.556
that takes, self-discipline.
00:24:19.556 --> 00:24:24.605
You, you have got to prioritize things which is a huge lesson to learn.
00:24:25.236 --> 00:24:40.415
And then after you go through that process and, and you look back and it might take a few years, but you look back and, and say, wow, I gained an awful lot out of that experience, then it's payback time.
00:24:40.865 --> 00:24:51.786
I think that person comes to the point where, you know, uh, I need to give back this, this has made me a, a successful person in, in, in this career or that career.
00:24:51.786 --> 00:24:53.256
I've gained so much from that.
00:24:53.736 --> 00:24:55.625
Uh, I need to give back.
00:24:55.625 --> 00:24:59.675
And I think that's where the service part, comes back, you know?
00:24:59.826 --> 00:25:05.655
And, uh, mine started, like I said initially, and I get pretty emotional about it.
00:25:05.655 --> 00:25:10.246
It was 4- H, uh, uh, I would never.
00:25:11.550 --> 00:25:31.446
Uh, be successful in what I had done if it hadn't been for those initial experiences, you know, and we had parents, uh, volunteers that, that gave of their time and effort, great county agents, people that were willing to sacrifice their time for kids.
00:25:32.557 --> 00:25:36.457
And, uh, that, that just had a tremendous impact on my life.
00:25:36.457 --> 00:25:39.426
And I had great, obviously great support from my parents.
00:25:39.707 --> 00:25:48.826
But it, it was others that also were very impactful as far as 4- H leaders and teachers and coaches and so forth, you know?
00:25:49.186 --> 00:25:55.696
And so, uh, I, I felt a, a great responsibility in trying to pay that back.
00:25:57.096 --> 00:26:02.615
Well, I'm told that, and I think I may have even had a podcast guest that would've been the result of this.
00:26:02.615 --> 00:26:32.135
But when you were at the University of Illinois, did you not kind of serve the industry by maybe casting a little wider net and working with some kids may not have grown up on a farm or ranch in rural Illinois or, or even the rural Midwest, but maybe came out of an urban or suburban area and get them into and interested in the meat science field, the animal science field, and maybe more specifically the meats judging team.
00:26:33.036 --> 00:26:39.236
and how did that, I guess, play into that, paying it back that you mentioned there before?
00:26:40.695 --> 00:26:40.986
Well,
00:26:41.060 --> 00:26:41.280
Um.
00:26:41.830 --> 00:26:42.641
very definitely.
00:26:42.641 --> 00:26:53.480
We had young people that, that enrolled the University of Illinois in Department of Animal Science with like many, their major goal to get to vet school.
00:26:54.671 --> 00:26:54.961
Okay,
00:26:55.056 --> 00:27:10.816
so we had a significant number of kids coming out of the collar counties of Chicago, and other urban areas that had tremendously good high school preparation in the biological sciences.
00:27:11.746 --> 00:27:12.675
And so, uh.
00:27:13.193 --> 00:27:20.753
They would come in and major in animal sciences because that was probably the best way of getting into vet school.
00:27:21.653 --> 00:27:29.993
And initially my meat science introductory meat science course was required of all animal science majors in the department.
00:27:30.804 --> 00:27:46.528
And so, through that I was able to attract a fairly significant number of kids that had urban backgrounds, non-ag backgrounds, kind of get them turned on a little bit.
00:27:46.528 --> 00:27:48.179
And they would come out for the meet team.
00:27:48.538 --> 00:28:08.308
And because of their intelligence as well as their biological science background, many of those when either if they didn't go on to vet school, they went on to graduate school in meat science or, or ment nutrition or that type of thing, and maintained them within the, the animal science department.
00:28:08.308 --> 00:28:26.291
So, uh, and, and, uh, Matt, the thing is concerning you, that is, you know, as I was leaving, uh, in, in, in 2010, I was also undergraduate teaching coordinator for the department, for a number of years.
00:28:26.291 --> 00:28:39.791
And so I had the opportunity, which was fantastic, uh, to interact with many parents and their kids as they were coming to visit the University of Illinois, possibly a place to come for college.
00:28:40.271 --> 00:28:43.402
And, uh, I enjoyed that very much.
00:28:43.402 --> 00:28:49.652
But, you know, uh, it got to the point where, at the U of I, it was 80% women,
00:28:50.412 --> 00:28:50.832
Mm-hmm.
00:28:51.481 --> 00:28:54.481
men in the Department of Animal Sciences.
00:28:54.961 --> 00:29:02.162
And, uh, it was probably, you know, and the majority of that obviously were from urban areas.
00:29:03.001 --> 00:29:19.547
So, you know, the great thing about'EM is many of them were pretty open-minded to other career avenues in animal science once they got in and got their feet wet and say,"wow, there's a lot of stuff here." You know?
00:29:19.846 --> 00:29:35.477
Uh, and so, you know, uh, subliminally, my, my, my goal was to convince them, you know, not to go on to vet school, but to go to become animal scientists, meat scientists, and go on to graduate school, which many of them did.
00:29:36.406 --> 00:29:46.696
Well, I'm sure you probably weren't on the Christmas card list from the dean of the vet school, but, uh, I would say that there would be lots of folks highly indebted to you.
00:29:46.696 --> 00:29:52.007
I, I, the podcast I was mentioning was Diana Clark, possibly one of your
00:29:52.342 --> 00:29:55.321
Uh, very definitely, yes, very definitely.
00:29:55.336 --> 00:30:02.967
she would've been, we had a podcast with her, gosh, three or four years ago, first season I think of, of this podcast.
00:30:03.126 --> 00:30:03.416
Yeah.
00:30:03.777 --> 00:30:11.997
she mentioned that, that that was her course exactly as you kind of described, and that you, you, um, kind of changed that course.
00:30:11.997 --> 00:30:14.576
And, and she's tickled pink that you did, I think
00:30:14.616 --> 00:30:15.267
Yeah, yeah,
00:30:15.386 --> 00:30:16.166
days anyway,
00:30:16.211 --> 00:30:16.541
yeah.
00:30:16.541 --> 00:30:26.223
She's, she's a, she's a great gal and, and her husband, of course, he came from Southern Illinois and he wa came from a,, an Angus background.
00:30:26.223 --> 00:30:31.354
And so, uh, but it was the meats judging team and that, that type of thing that got'em together.
00:30:31.354 --> 00:30:34.189
So, uh, you know, that was a plus there.
00:30:34.368 --> 00:30:38.328
chart, chart career paths, but you're a matchmaker as well.
00:30:38.328 --> 00:30:38.808
So that,
00:30:38.979 --> 00:30:39.269
Yeah.
00:30:39.288 --> 00:30:39.828
impressive.
00:30:43.489 --> 00:30:49.489
So jumping forward, and we can come back, we could talk about judging teams and meat science all day long.
00:30:49.548 --> 00:31:06.739
Um, today there's a, there's a topic that's fairly front burner, uh, on a lot of people's minds, especially in the meat science community, and that is the yield grade equation, uh, that USDA uses to estimate retail yield and cutability of carcasses.
00:31:06.798 --> 00:31:14.088
Um, you stayed up on some of the changes that they are talking about and some of the research that, is being done?
00:31:14.088 --> 00:31:15.709
Texas Tech would be leading that, of
00:31:15.959 --> 00:31:16.179
Yes.
00:31:16.249 --> 00:31:16.538
Yeah.
00:31:16.909 --> 00:31:18.169
or is that, is that
00:31:18.398 --> 00:31:19.259
So that something you still
00:31:19.368 --> 00:31:19.429
on?
00:31:20.118 --> 00:31:21.784
Yes, I, I, I, I do.
00:31:21.784 --> 00:31:32.253
And, uh, my wife and I still go to our, uh, the national Meetings of American Meat Science Association, which is called the Reciprocal Meat Conference.
00:31:32.673 --> 00:31:35.854
And, uh, we have continued to attend them.
00:31:36.243 --> 00:31:44.111
And, and, and part of that reason is to try to try to stay abreast a little bit of what some of the research is going on and doing.
00:31:44.111 --> 00:31:53.800
And yeah, Dale Woerner and, and the guys at Tech have done a, a great job in trying to, uh, I guess you would say modernize.
00:31:54.641 --> 00:32:03.431
Uh, our yield grading system, uh, to make it a more accurate predictor of the composition of, uh, of beef carcasses.
00:32:03.911 --> 00:32:17.151
And, uh, you know, I think research has indicated that, uh, our current methodology, doesn't do as accurate a job as it it should in, in estimating the composition of beef.
00:32:17.230 --> 00:32:38.731
So I, I'm all for this, new, research efforts that are being made and, and trying to identify, methodology in the cooler that'll work as far as, uh, you know, the actual industry is concerned, online grading and that type of thing, and, and doing a more accurate job of predicting.
00:32:38.731 --> 00:32:53.781
And so, uh, I think there's, there's still a lot of work to be done in that area, but, uh, they are moving forward and I, I, I think the, the beef industry recognizes that, we need something that is more accurate than what we're currently using.
00:32:54.172 --> 00:33:02.635
Obviously our cattle have, there's been a lot of, changes in, in the cattle that we, Breed and feed.
00:33:03.115 --> 00:33:12.026
Over the years since, I guess that would've come out about 1965 as far as our USDA yield grades are concerned somewhere in there.
00:33:12.516 --> 00:33:22.086
So I think it's, it's, it's a necessary thing that has, has, has finally reached the level where the, the whole industry says, yep, we gotta do something here.
00:33:23.269 --> 00:33:29.824
so I, I appreciate the, the effort that, that Texas Tech and others are making in that, that arena.
00:33:29.824 --> 00:33:37.729
And I look forward to our meetings here in June to see, to get an update on, on what you know has happened this past year.
00:33:39.078 --> 00:33:39.318
Yeah.
00:33:39.513 --> 00:33:44.493
committee is doing a lot of work, as is Texas Tech and the other participating researchers.
00:33:44.493 --> 00:33:46.384
And yeah, it's time, it's time.
00:33:46.384 --> 00:33:47.673
The cattle have changed.
00:33:47.673 --> 00:34:15.077
Um, uh, the management has changed, genetics have changed, and we've gotta do as good a job with the technologies that we have today to make sure that we're better estimating that, in my opinion, and I know it's not gonna be easy anytime we make a change that affects the way we market and merchandise and value cattle, um, there are some growing pains and obviously there's some logistical changes in the plants and things like that, that we'll have to consider as well.
00:34:15.077 --> 00:34:25.126
But yeah, we've gotta, probably gotta do a better job than what we're doing with 60-year-old equations and, and cattle that are vastly different than they were in the,
00:34:25.222 --> 00:34:25.512
Yeah,
00:34:25.516 --> 00:34:27.177
early mid sixties when that work was done.
00:34:27.737 --> 00:34:28.487
very definitely.
00:34:28.487 --> 00:34:32.206
You know, it worked well for a while, that's for sure, and,
00:34:32.217 --> 00:34:32.226
sure.
00:34:32.717 --> 00:34:37.217
and made us well aware of, of the problems we had from a compositional standpoint.
00:34:37.217 --> 00:34:40.126
But, uh, it, it's time to modernize.
00:34:41.581 --> 00:34:48.331
So that's a change that we've seen cattle types and breeds and cutability and, and muscling and things like that.
00:34:48.782 --> 00:35:09.501
Um, through your meat science career, what would you say would be the top one, two, maybe three things that you saw change from when you went to K State and maybe got started that, meat science path in the late sixties until you retired 10 or 15 years ago?
00:35:09.501 --> 00:35:11.922
What, what have you seen that would be the biggest items?
00:35:12.672 --> 00:35:25.202
Well, you know, if, if we're, if we're looking at the beef industry, the beef cattle industry, I, I would say one of the major transformations that we've seen is, the tremendous change in, in the quality.
00:35:25.996 --> 00:35:45.706
Of our beef, you know, uh, now the percentage of cattle that are, are grading prime is, is, uh, amazing compared to really just 20 years ago, you know, we, we, we evolved and, and all of a sudden we had the continental breeds making tremendous impact
00:35:45.782 --> 00:35:46.126
running them
00:35:46.126 --> 00:35:50.327
on the composition of our cattle, trimming them up and making heavier muscle and everything.
00:35:50.867 --> 00:36:11.150
But, we lost marbling if you compared it to a straight bred Angus or shore horn, or it may be in some cases even the herford and, uh, through genetics and, and feeding, we've seen tremendous evolution in, in, in the increase in marbling and, the eating quality of our meat.
00:36:11.481 --> 00:36:13.371
Uh, I think that's been a huge plus.
00:36:13.371 --> 00:36:22.766
I think, you know, I, I am, I'm a big, beef eater and, uh,, the improvement in palatability of our beef is, is amazing.
00:36:22.766 --> 00:36:37.085
We dad always, we had an old Jersey Hereford was our milk cow jersey, Hereford Cross, and,, her offspring was what we consumed after he'd feed it out.
00:36:37.476 --> 00:36:45.996
And we never, never had a tough piece of meat that jersey influence and marbling in that old herford.
00:36:46.445 --> 00:36:49.985
Uh, we had a lot of marbling in, in, in our meat.
00:36:49.985 --> 00:36:51.762
And, so I, I grew up.
00:36:52.226 --> 00:36:55.827
Not knowing really what, what tough meat was.
00:36:56.532 --> 00:37:09.177
And, and then when I got away from home and started selecting beef or going to a retail store and, and, and buying beef, Hey, there's some inconsistency here.
00:37:09.777 --> 00:37:14.246
You know, every once in a while you'd get one that, that, uh, was tougher than shoe leather.
00:37:14.706 --> 00:37:21.817
So I think we have made great inroads, uh, in improving the palatability of our beef.
00:37:21.817 --> 00:37:26.706
And I'd say that's been a real plus in our industry that, that I have seen.
00:37:26.706 --> 00:37:46.431
And,, and I saw it so much in the pork industry, we, we, the though pendulum swings from one side to the other, uh, in, in the seventies and in pigs, we were really concerned with PSE and, and we were moving from real fat hogs to super lean pigs.
00:37:47.197 --> 00:37:54.286
And all of a sudden, uh, we had palatability problems in, in the pork industry.
00:37:54.286 --> 00:37:58.146
And so, you and I think we've improved there a bunch also.
00:37:58.507 --> 00:38:14.266
And, uh, but, but, becoming aware, I guess Matt, on the consumer side, has been an evolution in, in our industry, in the meat industry, in the, in the, the whole, the whole livestock industry.
00:38:14.726 --> 00:38:23.637
And recognizing that if we are gonna sell a product, uh, it better be consistent and it better be palatable.
00:38:24.266 --> 00:38:36.697
And to me, the amazing evidence of that is that we're consuming beef at ungodly prices right now, and the consumers are still doing it.
00:38:37.646 --> 00:38:37.936
Yeah.
00:38:38.202 --> 00:38:46.362
it just, it just blows my mind how this market has hung in there with the price, uh, of beef.
00:38:46.362 --> 00:38:49.931
My wife and I bought a quarter from one of our 4- Hs.
00:38:50.771 --> 00:38:58.601
And not too long ago, you know, and by the time I calculated out what that cost and everything, holy cow, you know, what have we done here, dear?
00:38:58.882 --> 00:39:03.501
But, you know, uh, we went ahead and, and, and did it and are enjoying that beef.
00:39:04.101 --> 00:39:06.329
But, that's the amazing thing to me.
00:39:06.329 --> 00:39:06.994
And, and,
00:39:07.003 --> 00:39:07.543
random.
00:39:07.829 --> 00:39:12.358
you know, uh, so I think our, our, our cattle producers.
00:39:12.943 --> 00:39:24.351
Everybody in between is recognizing, Hey, the consumer is king and we need to make sure our product is predictable and repeatable and is satisfying.
00:39:24.920 --> 00:39:37.431
And I think it is not that we're, we're, we're at the apex yet, but, uh, uh, we've been tr made tremendous progress in that area and in, in producing a product.
00:39:37.436 --> 00:39:45.621
And, and I guess the, the big thing is recognizing a, as an industry that we have got to produce a product
00:39:45.710 --> 00:39:46.061
These
00:39:46.101 --> 00:39:52.971
that, uh, uh, consumers will come back and, and pay these wild prices for in which they are doing.
00:39:52.971 --> 00:40:04.021
You know, and a lot of that goes back to, our advertising, you know, uh, supporting research, advertising, all of that, is critically important to that.
00:40:04.971 --> 00:40:06.740
Yeah, there's, there's no doubt.
00:40:06.740 --> 00:40:19.061
Um, just in my time in the beef industry, the, as you called it, consumer awareness, our that with that consumer in mind have made a huge difference.
00:40:19.061 --> 00:40:24.840
And I think marketing and putting money to incentivize us doing those things, not just
00:40:25.121 --> 00:40:25.456
Yeah, yeah,
00:40:25.471 --> 00:40:28.485
right thing to do, has been, has been critical as well.
00:40:28.485 --> 00:40:29.101
Obviously.
00:40:29.746 --> 00:40:29.806
yeah.
00:40:29.811 --> 00:40:30.721
There's no, no question.
00:40:30.721 --> 00:40:30.871
That
00:40:30.871 --> 00:40:45.300
What, what is an area maybe that we still need to work on or maybe we need to work on now because of, as an unintended consequence of, of, some gains that we've made in quality and things like that from a meat science
00:40:45.351 --> 00:40:45.641
yeah.
00:40:45.960 --> 00:40:51.090
Is there something that's looming out there that we have to be aware of and, and address fairly soon?
00:40:53.460 --> 00:40:55.710
You know, that's a good question.
00:40:55.710 --> 00:41:28.893
I,, I probably have been far enough away from it that I'm, I'm not fully, aware of, the big problems that we're, that may be in, in front of us from, from a meat science standpoint, one of the things that has always, that has blown me away, and we're looking at beef here primarily, but it's also in, in the swine industry, is, uh, these endpoint live weights that we have, the industry has gone to, you know, the cattle are, are, are so heavy now.
00:41:29.884 --> 00:41:34.083
Uh, merchandising at, you know, 1500 pounds.
00:41:34.454 --> 00:41:41.893
I go down to, uh, we've got a new little, uh, beef processor, here in Medicine Lodge and, uh, a new plant.
00:41:41.983 --> 00:41:46.903
And, you know, they're, they're looking for, for, cattle or, or carcass weights.
00:41:46.903 --> 00:41:52.246
That would be, you know, maybe more in that carcass weight of, 850 pounds.
00:41:53.086 --> 00:41:54.467
We go to our big process.
00:41:54.467 --> 00:42:06.527
There's a good grief, there's, you know, rail after rail over a thousand pounds, and that's always been one thing that has concerned me, bothered me a little bit.
00:42:06.976 --> 00:42:14.226
I fully appreciate, the packers putting their expenses over a greater tonnage of beef.
00:42:14.231 --> 00:42:15.817
I, I understand that.
00:42:16.371 --> 00:42:18.052
And, and, and that type of thing.
00:42:18.052 --> 00:42:27.322
But I, I just, you know, I, I wonder, is there going to be a point where we reduce the number of elephants that we raise?
00:42:28.251 --> 00:42:59.126
I, you know, I, I, I, that's my concern is how far are we going to go, for, you know, as far as the cow herd size is concerned, and I'm talking about, uh, size of cows and the efficiency involved and, and that type of research, genetics involved and, and, and heavier cattle being able to handle things in a feedlot situation or the stress of heat and cold and all of that kind of a thing.
00:42:59.726 --> 00:43:09.795
Have it gotten too big, you know, those are things that, that I just wonder on, on the sideline and, and whether we're dealing with that question.
00:43:09.795 --> 00:43:10.996
Maybe it's not a problem, but,
00:43:12.472 --> 00:43:18.742
I, I share your concern and I, I believe that it is a problem personally.
00:43:18.802 --> 00:43:25.643
But in a time you just talked about, we continue to see consumer demand at all time highs.
00:43:25.643 --> 00:43:33.052
They can't get enough of the product that we have, and we continue to not rebuild the cow herd domestically.
00:43:33.052 --> 00:43:41.242
And so think the market is just saying, we're gonna do whatever we can to get every ounce of beef that we can to these consumers.
00:43:41.242 --> 00:43:45.443
And, yeah, it, it opens, in my opinion, it opens a.
00:43:45.818 --> 00:43:59.588
Pandora's box of unintended consequences, whether we're talking about cow size or uh, animal welfare in the feed yard with these bigger cattle on the same skeleton and, and you know, visceral organs.
00:43:59.588 --> 00:44:09.128
There's all kinds of challenges that I think that causes, but I will share with you, and I don't think that this is, uh, confidential, but.
00:44:10.043 --> 00:44:31.132
A processor whom we deliver cattle to occasionally just sent out a letter yesterday announcing that heavyweight discounts, uh, the threshold that used to be a 4% allowance for, uh, 1100 to 1,150 pound cattle is now gonna move up to a 17.5% threshold.
00:44:31.523 --> 00:44:39.293
Um, they're gonna decrease the discount on those, I mean, 1100 to 1,150 pound carcasses.
00:44:40.103 --> 00:44:41.663
not that old.
00:44:41.663 --> 00:44:52.643
I don't feel, and I remember when 1100 to 1,150 pound live weights not uncommon as an average a pen of cattle coming outta the feed yard.
00:44:53.097 --> 00:44:53.318
Yes.
00:44:54.112 --> 00:45:11.152
and in a mere 30 years, we've moved that to the threshold that we're willing to take, 17.5% meeting that because we're trying to get as many pounds per hook, per carcass, per head outta the feed yard, however you wanna look at it.
00:45:11.603 --> 00:45:25.463
Um, yeah, there's, there's bound to be some fallout from things like that, but yeah, I think the market is telling us that at least for now, at least for now, it is not going back the other way.
00:45:25.858 --> 00:45:26.137
Yeah.
00:45:26.400 --> 00:45:26.621
Yep.
00:45:26.992 --> 00:45:34.028
So it, it will be, yeah, it will be interesting to see kind of how the industry digests that and, and, what happens from here.
00:45:34.028 --> 00:45:51.159
But yeah, there are, I think there are going to be necessary changes to management and to breeding programs and everything else in order to do this and still keep cows that can survive in the Red Hills of Barber County and, and, uh, the Flint Hills and really any place we talk about
00:45:51.418 --> 00:45:51.708
Yeah.
00:45:52.028 --> 00:46:03.909
of, maybe, maybe some spots that are right next to a, uh, an ethanol plant or a grain facility or something that can feed them a little bit more energy and calories than what we can on Native Range most places.
00:46:04.179 --> 00:46:04.469
Yeah.
00:46:04.829 --> 00:46:07.628
I mean, that'd be a huge problem here in county.
00:46:07.628 --> 00:46:08.869
There's no question about that.
00:46:09.648 --> 00:46:09.978
Yep.
00:46:11.088 --> 00:46:20.947
So I had, uh, it's interesting, I've had a couple different podcast listeners, that made a suggestion for a podcast guest.
00:46:22.918 --> 00:46:23.967
Sorry about that.
00:46:23.998 --> 00:46:24.478
About that.
00:46:24.507 --> 00:46:26.277
Nope, you're good, you're good.
00:46:26.277 --> 00:46:42.268
I'm just impressed that, uh, here you consider yourself retired in quiet, uh, calm Barber County, Kansas, and yet you get as many phone calls during a podcast interview as, uh, as some of the most highly compensated execs that I've had on here.
00:46:42.268 --> 00:46:44.532
So obviously you're a busy guy, Dr.
00:46:44.532 --> 00:46:44.847
Carr.
00:46:45.777 --> 00:46:46.378
I love it.
00:46:46.467 --> 00:46:47.038
I love it.
00:46:48.387 --> 00:46:57.208
In that regard, you have been requested as a guest by multiple listeners of this podcast, uh, un unconnected.
00:46:57.208 --> 00:47:02.277
I might add that, that all lobbied for your inclusion on here and, and rightly so.
00:47:02.637 --> 00:47:06.867
I asked are there any good stories that I need to bring out and make sure he tells?
00:47:06.867 --> 00:47:13.827
And one of'em said, I don't know if this is true, but I don't think he owned his own personal vehicle when he was at U of I.
00:47:13.827 --> 00:47:17.007
He always took public transit to work.
00:47:17.007 --> 00:47:19.228
And is that, be close?
00:47:19.527 --> 00:47:21.088
Well, no, you, you,
00:47:21.387 --> 00:47:21.467
No, you, you,
00:47:21.628 --> 00:47:23.697
you are exactly right.
00:47:23.788 --> 00:47:26.217
Uh, we, we made the decision.
00:47:26.788 --> 00:47:31.958
Champaign Urbana had a great mass transit, district bus system.
00:47:32.047 --> 00:47:37.358
And, uh, I could get, I could get within a block and a half of the meat lab.
00:47:37.987 --> 00:47:44.483
So my wife and I made a decision, uh, we'll just have one vehicle and, I rode the bus.
00:47:45.023 --> 00:47:45.293
Back
00:47:46.117 --> 00:47:53.137
To work and being 50% extension state specialists and meats.
00:47:53.768 --> 00:48:09.240
Uh, we had a re, especially in the, in the seventies and eighties, we had a, uh, a really vibrant extension, program in animal sciences and with regional, specialists and, and state specialists.
00:48:09.271 --> 00:48:13.610
And, we were, we held a lot of meetings out in the state.
00:48:14.271 --> 00:48:17.931
And so between being a meat judging coach.
00:48:19.175 --> 00:48:20.556
Extension specialist.
00:48:20.585 --> 00:48:25.235
Uh, I spent about half my time and it seemed like an estate vehicle.
00:48:25.235 --> 00:48:33.226
So between the bus system and having a state vehicle going to extension meetings, I didn't have to worry about another vehicle
00:48:34.190 --> 00:48:34.610
That's
00:48:34.635 --> 00:48:35.175
to work.
00:48:36.585 --> 00:48:37.246
Have you, uh,
00:48:37.335 --> 00:48:37.556
Well have you, uh,
00:48:37.726 --> 00:48:42.286
gotten the mass transit system in, uh, medicine Lodge up and running?
00:48:42.286 --> 00:48:45.135
Or have you had to buy a, buy a car or a truck now?
00:48:46.936 --> 00:48:48.315
a new pair of tennis shoes and
00:48:49.635 --> 00:48:50.175
Atta boy.
00:48:50.356 --> 00:48:51.106
There you go.
00:48:53.626 --> 00:49:00.856
Well, that's, uh, that saves some pennies, so you could buy a better chainsaw for cutting those, uh, those cedars down
00:49:01.036 --> 00:49:07.246
you know, it, it, it, it, it's amazing really how much it did save us and, uh, uh,
00:49:07.635 --> 00:49:08.025
yeah.
00:49:08.416 --> 00:49:09.826
it was well, well worth it.
00:49:09.856 --> 00:49:10.695
suburban America.
00:49:10.726 --> 00:49:11.146
Yeah.
00:49:11.206 --> 00:49:11.536
Yeah.
00:49:11.536 --> 00:49:21.465
That's, uh, that's a huge cost that of us have on a bottom line, especially if we have any extra vehicles sitting around when we figure in, especially today, insurance and everything else.
00:49:21.465 --> 00:49:22.425
Oh my, yes.
00:49:22.485 --> 00:49:23.295
was interesting.
00:49:23.295 --> 00:49:32.646
I was expecting some very, very pointed meat science type of a question that I needed to inquire about, and instead they said, I don't think he owned a personal vehicle.
00:49:34.740 --> 00:49:35.360
We had more.
00:49:35.856 --> 00:49:36.186
Yeah.
00:49:36.396 --> 00:49:38.166
Well, that's, that's good.
00:49:38.166 --> 00:49:42.036
And it makes it, it made sense then, and, and probably even more so today.
00:49:42.664 --> 00:49:55.155
Any other great stories or memories, whether it be from, coaching meets teams or teaching or just industry extension work that, uh, that you have, that you think would with listeners?
00:49:55.900 --> 00:50:00.164
I, I, I had one, just an amazing thing happen to me.
00:50:00.315 --> 00:50:02.295
Uh, in, uh,
00:50:02.625 --> 00:50:02.844
Uh,
00:50:02.925 --> 00:50:08.985
1986, uh, I got a phone call from a, the Wall Street Journal.
00:50:09.375 --> 00:50:16.474
An editor of the Wall Street Journal and he said, I wanna do a story, on meats judging.
00:50:16.985 --> 00:50:30.695
He said, I called, uh, the, uh, livestock and meat board and they said for me to contact you and said, we wanna do it with a university that has had some success in this
00:50:30.804 --> 00:50:31.264
in this
00:50:31.355 --> 00:50:36.925
thing called meat judging, but is also, is involved in NCAA athletics.
00:50:37.788 --> 00:50:44.307
And I, I said, well, I said, you know, uh, we're not too good in football right here at the U of I.
00:50:44.307 --> 00:50:52.378
At that point in time, I said, uh, uh, you might wanna, you might wanna check with the University of Nebraska or something like that.
00:50:52.378 --> 00:50:53.427
And he said, well, no.
00:50:53.427 --> 00:50:57.927
He said, we, he said, I was told I really needed to talk to you.
00:50:59.005 --> 00:51:01.795
and I thought this was, this was gotta be a joke.
00:51:02.244 --> 00:51:06.835
And, and so anyway, he said, we, we exchanged numbers and stuff.
00:51:06.835 --> 00:51:11.364
And he said, I'd like to, I'd like to, to be at a contest with you.
00:51:11.934 --> 00:51:17.659
Go to go to the, the, the contest and kind interact with your team and stuff.
00:51:17.659 --> 00:51:18.980
Are you crazy?
00:51:18.980 --> 00:51:20.809
And, and so anyway, uh.
00:51:21.246 --> 00:51:24.157
we signed off and I thought that'd be the end of it.
00:51:24.277 --> 00:51:37.507
Well, he called and said, uh, this was in the spring semester and we didn't start, I didn't start my judging teams till the spring semester, and we would go to a couple spring contests, you know, just kind of get our feet wet.
00:51:38.077 --> 00:51:53.563
And, uh, we went to, to that point in time, the, the Great Plains invitation, which was held in, in, at Sioux Falls, South Dakota, and, go to the southeastern contest that would be in the southeastern part of the state in, uh, country in April.
00:51:54.432 --> 00:52:02.952
So, anyway, I'll be danged in, uh, February, this guy calls back up and he says, you remember me?
00:52:02.952 --> 00:52:03.672
I said, well, yeah.
00:52:04.677 --> 00:52:16.557
And, and, and so make a long story short, he, he goes and, and meets us, flies in to Sioux Falls, South Dakota, and he kind of goes with his contest.
00:52:16.557 --> 00:52:19.108
Of course, we're just started, this is our first contest.
00:52:19.108 --> 00:52:21.777
I, we may have been dead ass last, I don't remember.
00:52:22.197 --> 00:52:34.632
And, uh, anyway, he, he does a story and, uh, I'm driving from picking some pork carcass data up, from, a, uh, packing plant in Illinois.
00:52:34.632 --> 00:52:36.492
And I'm listening to WLS.
00:52:37.646 --> 00:53:04.271
And all of a sudden this guy comes on and says, you know, can you believe this in the Wall Street Journal, and, uh, son of a Gun, they had done a pencil caricature of me with my hard hat on frock on in the middle of a beef cooler and had written this story and matt, you cannot believe what all I heard
00:53:04.527 --> 00:53:04.847
I heard.
00:53:06.041 --> 00:53:08.681
from, from, from that, you know?
00:53:08.681 --> 00:53:23.192
And I find out, well, it's the first time a faculty member at the U of I had been on the front page of Wall Street Journal and I, I even got a phone call from, uh, from the football coach at that point in time.
00:53:23.192 --> 00:53:27.362
'cause I made a statement that we probably won more contest than the football team had.
00:53:27.666 --> 00:53:39.092
And, and, uh, so anyway, uh, it, it was, uh, something I never dreamed would be such a, a big deal as it was.
00:53:39.092 --> 00:53:46.262
And, uh,, got a lot of, uh, I guess you'd say positive publicity, you know, out of that.
00:53:46.322 --> 00:53:55.271
But, uh, it did, uh, elevate intercollegiate meat judging., Somewhat, you know, because of that, that, that one article.
00:53:55.722 --> 00:53:56.472
And, uh,
00:53:56.632 --> 00:53:56.831
uh,
00:53:57.072 --> 00:53:58.541
but, uh, I was shocked.
00:53:58.541 --> 00:54:07.302
I said, and I about wrecked the car as I was driving, you know, with this guy came over the, the radio and said, can you believe this?
00:54:07.722 --> 00:54:11.291
And then I got into the office and, and my secretary said, my golly.
00:54:11.291 --> 00:54:13.271
He says, this phone's been ringing off the hook.
00:54:13.271 --> 00:54:15.461
Said everybody in the world's trying to get ahold of you.
00:54:15.461 --> 00:54:17.831
And it was quite the deal.
00:54:19.052 --> 00:54:24.387
and in 1986, obviously you weren't carrying a cell phone and so you didn't know anything about it,
00:54:24.461 --> 00:54:25.181
No.
00:54:25.367 --> 00:54:37.541
Had had no, no idea till I pulled into the, to the meat lab that there was anything going on at all, you know, and, but it was, it was front page of the Wall Street Journal.
00:54:38.157 --> 00:54:39.956
Well, that's, that's awesome.
00:54:39.956 --> 00:54:52.286
And, and you know, even in today's day and age with social media and, and everybody having a camera and a, opportunity to, know, within seconds put something out there for the world to see.
00:54:52.286 --> 00:55:24.139
I, I think we have to recognize those opportunities and, and you obviously have through your years whether it be working with 4- H kids now, uh, whether it be being a four H kid back in the, uh, in the fifties and sixties, or even in between time when you were there at U of I and working with kids of all different areas and backgrounds and everything else, that opportunity to, as you said, elevate meats judging or elevate farming and ranching, or elevate agriculture or even ourselves.
00:55:24.139 --> 00:55:26.659
I, I think those are times that can't be missed.
00:55:26.690 --> 00:55:27.289
And,
00:55:27.409 --> 00:55:27.630
Yes.
00:55:27.800 --> 00:55:31.460
up without the least, understanding of why.
00:55:31.519 --> 00:55:42.079
But doing the things that you've done through the years, I think give, give a perfect opportunity for us to put that best foot forward because that's a story that people are wanting to hear and.
00:55:42.469 --> 00:55:42.920
Yep.
00:55:43.070 --> 00:55:46.963
better to tell it than than folks like you and, and, producers here in agriculture,
00:55:47.233 --> 00:55:47.592
Yeah.
00:55:48.043 --> 00:55:52.637
You know, I, I, I follow a couple of, PO podcast.
00:55:52.686 --> 00:56:00.737
Janeal Yancy mom at the meet counter does a really neat job of, of answering consumer questions.
00:56:00.737 --> 00:56:04.516
And of course, she is a meat scientist at the University of Arkansas.
00:56:04.516 --> 00:56:10.697
But, uh, and she got her PhD at at, at k State and, and does a wonderful job.
00:56:10.697 --> 00:56:17.829
And then, Brandy Frobose, you know, I, in her buzzards beat, uh, I really enjoy.
00:56:18.639 --> 00:56:31.179
Following her and she gets in, she gets some pretty caustic comments from others as she, tries to promote, uh, beef and agriculture and in the right way.
00:56:31.179 --> 00:56:39.340
And, you know, I, I celebrate those young people that, that have the guts to step out there and, and, and to do that.
00:56:39.849 --> 00:56:50.079
And it, it is just like yourself, you know, uh, telling, telling the story, and there's a lot of negative stuff out there that, that has to be, uh, combated.
00:56:50.079 --> 00:57:00.179
And, and, uh, if you do it in a, in a right, right way, I think we can make some great inroads as far as educating our, our, our public is concerned.
00:57:01.275 --> 00:57:01.485
Yep.
00:57:01.545 --> 00:57:07.650
I, I agree wholeheartedly and that's a big part of why we're doing it so I appreciate you being on here today, Dr.
00:57:07.650 --> 00:57:07.934
Carr.
00:57:07.934 --> 00:57:14.054
This has been a fun discussion and one I know that a lot of folks are gonna enjoy and appreciate and relate to as well.
00:57:14.054 --> 00:57:21.014
So thanks for your time and um, you better get back out there and cut a few more cedars in this good warm February weather.
00:57:21.719 --> 00:57:22.199
Yep.
00:57:22.769 --> 00:57:23.969
It, it's always a battle.
00:57:23.969 --> 00:57:25.139
It's a continual battle.
00:57:25.710 --> 00:57:31.949
But, but Matt, thanks a bunch for this opportunity and uh, please tell your dad, Tom, for me.
00:57:32.556 --> 00:57:32.797
it.
00:57:32.797 --> 00:57:33.936
Thanks a bunch.
00:57:34.809 --> 00:57:39.130
thanks for tuning in to Practically Ranching, brought to you by Dalebanks Angus.
00:57:39.190 --> 00:57:40.809
All the best to you and your family.
00:57:40.960 --> 00:57:43.900
May God bless each of you and we'll talk again soon.
00:57:43.900 --> 00:57:43.929
I.
00:00:05.035 --> 00:00:09.564
Hi there, and thanks for joining me for episode 84 of Practically Ranching.
00:00:09.835 --> 00:00:16.554
I'm Matt Perrier, and we're here thanks to Dalebanks Angus, your home for practical profitable genetics since 1904.
00:00:17.635 --> 00:00:26.905
If you're in the market for bulls this spring, we'll sell a nice group of about 80 yearling and coming two year olds at private treaty starting in mid-March.
00:00:27.355 --> 00:00:37.975
For info and prices on the bulls, email me at Matt mattperrier@dalebanks.com and we'll get you the list as soon as we can in early March.
00:00:39.445 --> 00:00:42.384
This week, I got to visit with Dr.
00:00:42.384 --> 00:00:43.524
Tom Carr.
00:00:44.274 --> 00:00:44.634
Dr.
00:00:44.634 --> 00:00:50.005
Carr is a professor emeritus of meat science from the University of Illinois.
00:00:50.875 --> 00:00:52.570
And while Dr.
00:00:52.570 --> 00:01:04.165
Carr spent 36 years on the faculty there at U of I, he's a native Kansan, and he came back to his hometown of Medicine Lodge upon his retirement in 2010.
00:01:05.170 --> 00:01:10.629
You know, he spent a, a lifetime helping producers produce better beef and pork.
00:01:10.659 --> 00:01:18.310
He instructed countless students in meat science and he coached meats judging and evaluation teams.
00:01:18.879 --> 00:01:25.870
He's led research, he's taught, he's coached, and most of all, he's given back to those who need it.
00:01:26.769 --> 00:01:31.780
You know, through all these episodes, I get to talk with some pretty smart folks.
00:01:32.694 --> 00:01:34.165
Pretty visionary folks.
00:01:34.165 --> 00:01:35.424
Hardworking folks.
00:01:35.424 --> 00:01:36.625
Kind folks.
00:01:37.224 --> 00:01:37.765
Dr.
00:01:37.765 --> 00:01:40.075
Carr is all of those rolled into one?
00:01:40.734 --> 00:01:57.114
You know, I mentioned in the podcast that I've had multiple listeners suggest Tom as a guest, and after hearing him recount his career and all the lives that he's touched, it became pretty evident why I think that everyone who knows Dr.
00:01:57.114 --> 00:01:58.344
Carr loves Dr.
00:01:58.344 --> 00:01:58.704
Carr.
00:01:59.875 --> 00:02:03.355
We talk about several obvious meat science topics.
00:02:03.355 --> 00:02:18.775
We share a few stories about judging teams, but this is one of those episodes that reminds me that even though learning and and doing are really important, it's the people in our lives that really make the difference.
00:02:18.775 --> 00:02:25.375
Guys like Tom Carr not only share knowledge, they share their heart with everybody around them.
00:02:26.439 --> 00:02:29.710
Most of us have people who were instrumental in our achievements.
00:02:29.710 --> 00:02:29.800
Mm-hmm.
00:02:30.400 --> 00:02:30.849
And Dr.
00:02:30.849 --> 00:02:39.699
Carr recognized that pretty early in life and he continues to try and pay that back with his service to his community and to the meat industry.
00:02:40.360 --> 00:02:45.400
He learned by folks' example, and now he's that example for the rest of us.
00:02:45.460 --> 00:02:54.669
He reminded me of the importance of, of service to those around us, and I hope you'll feel the same as you hear this conversation with Dr.
00:02:54.669 --> 00:02:55.539
Tom Carr.
00:02:58.276 --> 00:03:04.336
We had a little bit of snow 10 days ago and about four, maybe five inches.
00:03:04.336 --> 00:03:12.635
but that's all we have had, uh, December, January's extremely dry and, uh, we had no moisture really in December.
00:03:13.096 --> 00:03:15.795
So that's a little disconcerting to us,
00:03:16.514 --> 00:03:16.784
Yeah.
00:03:16.814 --> 00:03:22.844
As you know, uh, as a Barber County resident and let's see, a Barber County native.
00:03:22.844 --> 00:03:23.235
Right.
00:03:23.235 --> 00:03:23.384
If
00:03:23.400 --> 00:03:23.909
right?
00:03:24.134 --> 00:03:24.645
back
00:03:24.689 --> 00:03:25.020
Yep.
00:03:25.020 --> 00:03:26.039
Yes, yes.
00:03:26.145 --> 00:03:28.965
not the first time in history that Medicine Lodge has been dry.
00:03:28.965 --> 00:03:29.294
Right.
00:03:29.909 --> 00:03:32.099
No, it's usually, uh, pretty normal.
00:03:32.099 --> 00:03:33.300
I'm afraid to say.
00:03:34.263 --> 00:03:39.992
So that's a, that's a pretty good lead in for kind of the full circle that you have completed.
00:03:39.992 --> 00:03:47.252
We'll touch, uh, we'll talk a little bit more here about your time there at Animal Sciences and Industry at U of I, uh, later on.
00:03:47.252 --> 00:03:51.663
But you're back in rural America, rural Kansas.
00:03:51.872 --> 00:03:54.543
What brought you there as a retired professor?
00:03:54.543 --> 00:03:59.173
Emus of, Florida or Arizona or someplace.
00:03:59.173 --> 00:04:01.453
A little, uh, more temperate.
00:04:02.562 --> 00:04:19.872
That, that's an excellent question and a, as you well know, being, being a native and, and, and, uh, being of the land, my brother and I still co-own our small family ranch between Medicine Lodge and Cold Water.
00:04:20.413 --> 00:04:27.687
And we've only got about a thousand acres, but, uh, uh, the land is always a draw.
00:04:29.007 --> 00:04:36.908
And, uh,, when my wife and I, made the decision, uh, to move back, it was to get back to the ranch.
00:04:37.148 --> 00:04:50.637
uh, dad died in 1987 and I had a, a second cousin that rented our ranch and then rented my, uh, my aunt's ranch across, the road.
00:04:51.117 --> 00:04:54.507
And, uh, and started about 1988.
00:04:54.958 --> 00:05:06.762
And so that same family, even though the original, gentleman rancher that, that, uh, rented the land passed away, his daughter and son-in-law continued to ranch.
00:05:06.762 --> 00:05:14.862
So we've had the same family renting the ranch, uh, since 1988, which is kind of unbelievable when you think about it.
00:05:15.312 --> 00:05:27.572
And, and, uh, we were having, Red cedar problems and, being in Illinois, my brother living in, uh, Olathe, we weren't here that much.
00:05:27.572 --> 00:05:37.322
We'd get back for maybe Christmas or Thanksgiving and really didn't see the Cedar creep that was coming into the ranch.
00:05:37.353 --> 00:05:48.810
And, uh, had some real, very close neighbors that, uh, told us about a,, a project, an organization that could provide funding for removal of Cedars.
00:05:49.406 --> 00:05:55.615
And, uh, so we signed up to do that in about 2005.
00:05:56.456 --> 00:06:01.875
But the long story of it is, you know,, wanting to get back to the ranch.
00:06:02.610 --> 00:06:06.750
And it just, you know, it just drags you, it drags you back.
00:06:07.380 --> 00:06:09.827
And, my wife was willing to do that.
00:06:10.358 --> 00:06:13.687
So, uh, we made the decision to do that.
00:06:13.687 --> 00:06:16.028
And I retired in August of 2010.
00:06:16.637 --> 00:06:31.377
My family owned a house here on, on Main Street, when dad came back from World War II in 45, uh, my grandparents moved from the ranch in and bought this house on Main Street, uh, in 46.
00:06:31.377 --> 00:06:45.108
And so we've had that house in our family since, since 1946., Mom and dad and my brother and I lived out on the ranch while my grandparents lived in town, and, and my brother and I maintained that, that old house.
00:06:45.197 --> 00:06:48.404
And when I came back, my brother said, buy my part out.
00:06:48.584 --> 00:06:51.675
He said, demolish that house and build a new one.
00:06:51.675 --> 00:06:57.735
And so, uh, when we moved back to Medicine Launch, we were known as a couple that built a new house on Main Street.
00:07:00.240 --> 00:07:11.370
Well, that's, that's not, um, probably too surprising, uh, in, in small towns when somebody comes in and does something significant, uh, everybody notices.
00:07:11.370 --> 00:07:17.550
I'm still chuckling over the fact that it was the Eastern red cedar that brought you back to Medicine Lodge.
00:07:17.550 --> 00:07:20.220
That's, that's, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
00:07:20.220 --> 00:07:26.654
You wanted to, to get on top of, uh, uh, cedar removal and so you just, that was, that was your retirement gig.
00:07:27.435 --> 00:07:42.408
Yeah, well my, my poor wife, uh, we, we came, when we moved back, our dear neighbor to the south of us said, Hey, how about putting, uh, a 3.2 mile new fence and share it 50 50 on the south side of the ranch?
00:07:42.408 --> 00:07:44.358
And I said, I'm all for that.
00:07:44.747 --> 00:07:55.997
But the problem was we have massive cedars growing in the fences all the way around our, our perimeter of 6.2 miles.
00:07:55.997 --> 00:08:01.877
So, my wife, I told my wife, I said, well, we're gonna start cutting cedars out of the fences.
00:08:01.877 --> 00:08:04.007
And we started in March of 2011.
00:08:04.007 --> 00:08:08.267
And my Lord, it took us a year, year and a half.
00:08:09.423 --> 00:08:10.052
You know,
00:08:10.148 --> 00:08:10.367
You
00:08:10.413 --> 00:08:16.833
to get that job done before we could really start to build a new, perimeter fence on our south side.
00:08:16.983 --> 00:08:20.043
You know, that was quite an undertaking.
00:08:20.043 --> 00:08:22.142
She didn't bargain for that.
00:08:23.517 --> 00:08:26.043
But bless her heart, she helped me the whole time.
00:08:26.043 --> 00:08:29.343
And, uh, so, uh, we got that job done.
00:08:29.343 --> 00:08:34.352
But, uh, I tell you, there's nothing, Cedars just puts the fear of God in me.
00:08:34.682 --> 00:08:39.153
We drive by, we both look at each other and think we need to grab a chainsaw and run out there and get'em.
00:08:39.273 --> 00:08:39.543
Yep.
00:08:39.557 --> 00:08:39.768
yeah.
00:08:40.023 --> 00:08:50.312
uh, not probably every retiree has, uh, saved everything they could for four or five decades just so they could come home and cut cedars for the rest of their, uh, retirement.
00:08:50.582 --> 00:08:51.302
But that's great.
00:08:51.302 --> 00:09:08.102
I think that says a lot about, about you and your work ethic and your tie to the land, and, um, probably would any student or um, uh, team member or anybody else that worked with you there at U of I probably could say that they saw the same work ethic back then too.
00:09:09.033 --> 00:09:15.903
tell us a little bit about that, uh, professional career you know, and, and even your schooling back to undergrad and master's and, and, um,
00:09:16.092 --> 00:09:16.383
Yeah.
00:09:16.442 --> 00:09:19.763
PhD work and, and what took you to university of Illinois.
00:09:19.962 --> 00:09:20.312
Right.
00:09:20.543 --> 00:09:28.398
Well, as, as you well know, four H had a unbelievable impact in my life.
00:09:29.477 --> 00:09:31.163
And, uh, when we had the.
00:09:32.432 --> 00:09:37.773
Uh, he started in four H at, I think age eight, something like that.
00:09:38.102 --> 00:09:52.832
And, uh, had several young men, uh, that, uh, went to K State right after they got outta the service, whether it was Korea, world War ii, whatever it might be, and, and came back to the ranches.
00:09:53.732 --> 00:10:03.842
And two or three of those guys, uh, really jumped in and volunteered in, in, in teaching and coaching, livestock judging.
00:10:04.472 --> 00:10:12.092
And at that point in time, we had a tremendously good extension agent who was all about educating the kids.
00:10:12.092 --> 00:10:39.477
And so us kids in the, in the, the fifties, early sixties, had the opportunity to, to be on county, livestock judging teams, range judging teams, land judging teams that basically were in national contests and, and it was a, an emphasis by our extension programming in our county.
00:10:39.538 --> 00:10:43.347
And, uh, that had a tremendous impact on me.
00:10:43.347 --> 00:10:57.057
And so in livestock judging of course, we got acclimated to Don Good and Miles McKee at all the lifestyle judging contests, regional district, whatever it might be, state contest.
00:10:57.538 --> 00:11:03.597
And so, you know, Kansas State was, uh, the place to go.
00:11:04.317 --> 00:11:08.457
And I was the first of our family ever to go to college.
00:11:09.057 --> 00:11:17.518
And mom and dad, you know, that that was their thing, is to make sure both of us, uh, got to college.
00:11:18.148 --> 00:11:19.947
And so we did that.
00:11:20.008 --> 00:11:29.378
And, uh, when I went to K State, As an undergrad, uh, one of my goals was, to, uh, be on the livestock judging team.
00:11:30.128 --> 00:11:39.908
We did not have meats judging in four H in Barber County at that point in time, although obviously meets judging in four H was in Kansas, but we didn't have it in Barber County.
00:11:40.807 --> 00:11:48.758
So I never got indoctrinated or introduced to me judging or, or meets until I took, you know, the introductory meat science class.
00:11:49.207 --> 00:11:56.413
And just so happened, a new, professor had joined K State about that time named Dr.
00:11:56.413 --> 00:11:57.148
Dell Allen.
00:11:57.957 --> 00:12:02.817
And uh, so I kind of got in through enthused with, uh,
00:12:02.888 --> 00:12:02.965
smallest
00:12:03.184 --> 00:12:05.735
the meat side of things and, uh.
00:12:06.355 --> 00:12:08.825
Dell asked me if I would come out for the judge team.
00:12:08.825 --> 00:12:13.325
Well, I did that as a junior rather than as a sophomore.
00:12:13.325 --> 00:12:18.725
And some of the guys, I had to be in FarmHouse fraternity, and some of the guys were on the meets team and said, you need to do this.
00:12:19.355 --> 00:12:25.937
And so, uh, I, I did and, really got into it.
00:12:26.028 --> 00:12:28.701
I, uh, kind of an interesting story.
00:12:28.701 --> 00:12:35.301
I, that made me, a little behind as far as my wanting to be on the livestock judging team.
00:12:35.870 --> 00:12:40.370
And so I should have graduated in, in, in the spring of 68.
00:12:40.370 --> 00:12:49.581
And, uh, I came home and told dad, I said, dad, I, I said, I, I wanna be on the livestock judging team, and I'll have to go an extra semester.
00:12:50.615 --> 00:12:52.265
And he said, well, that's okay.
00:12:52.265 --> 00:12:56.015
He says, you just trot yourself right down to the bank and borrow the money.
00:12:56.916 --> 00:13:08.895
And so I, I did that and uh, you know, at that point in time, those loans for student loans, unbelievably low interest rate, I don't know whether it was 2%, something like that.
00:13:08.895 --> 00:13:13.546
And so I come out and, and, uh, he said, well, how did it go?
00:13:13.546 --> 00:13:14.355
And I said, really good.
00:13:14.355 --> 00:13:18.405
I said, I, I borrowed$500 for such and such and told him interest.
00:13:18.405 --> 00:13:19.066
He says, my God.
00:13:19.066 --> 00:13:21.645
He says, why didn't you borrow more money?
00:13:25.635 --> 00:13:26.535
I was terrified.
00:13:26.566 --> 00:13:28.485
Anyways, the beginning, you know.
00:13:28.936 --> 00:13:35.145
So anyway, I did that and was on the livestock judging team then, uh, in, in 68.
00:13:35.145 --> 00:13:40.456
And we had great success on that team and uh, uh, it was a great experience.
00:13:40.456 --> 00:13:43.995
And then Dell came back and said, Hey.
00:13:45.255 --> 00:13:49.306
Would you think you'd be interested in possibly getting a master's degree?
00:13:49.395 --> 00:13:52.785
And, uh, I said, yes, I would do that.
00:13:52.995 --> 00:13:54.855
Dad and I had had a very frank discussion.
00:13:54.855 --> 00:13:59.566
My whole plan was to go back to the ranch, but he and granddad were in a partnership.
00:13:59.706 --> 00:14:02.916
And at that point in time, they were through land.
00:14:02.916 --> 00:14:13.806
We owned and, and, and rented, was running about, uh, 3,700 acres and had a cow herd of basically about 150 cows and farmed about 500 acres.
00:14:14.135 --> 00:14:15.576
The rest being pasture.
00:14:15.905 --> 00:14:19.625
But he says, you know, there's, there's not enough room for both of us.
00:14:19.836 --> 00:14:22.789
And he said, you need to find something to do for a while.
00:14:23.375 --> 00:14:30.245
So I had that discussion before Dell had asked me about possibly going on to grad school, and I said, yes, I'll do that.
00:14:30.875 --> 00:14:40.270
And helped with coaching the, the hi his judging teams at that point in time and had uh, uh, really good experience in grad school there.
00:14:40.691 --> 00:14:52.841
Uh, had the opportunity to go to Oklahoma State University, uh, serve as a halftime instructorship while going on to get my PhD under Lowell Walters, uh, at Oklahoma State.
00:14:52.900 --> 00:14:58.105
And, finished that up and had a great experience coach four meets judging teams at oh state.
00:14:58.315 --> 00:15:06.625
And then had the opportunity to go to the University of Illinois assistant professor in a teaching and extension position.
00:15:06.715 --> 00:15:14.375
And, responsibility of coaching a lot the me judging team and co-coaching and meat animal evaluation team.
00:15:14.554 --> 00:15:17.284
And did that for 36 years.
00:15:18.455 --> 00:15:21.845
So that's, that's kind of the, the nuts and bolts of it.,
00:15:22.765 --> 00:15:34.259
I'd say that's a lot and, pretty impressive path and, and one that's not atypical of a lot of judging team coaches of, of emulating some coach that had a big influence on them.
00:15:34.259 --> 00:15:44.068
And I, I love that story of those gentlemen who came back after serving their country in Korea or World War II even before that.
00:15:44.068 --> 00:15:50.009
Um, and then continued to serve by coaching you all as as youth, 4- H teams.
00:15:50.458 --> 00:15:53.999
And that too, you have emulated, have you not?
00:15:54.058 --> 00:16:03.958
Because I remember my kids who were judging for Greenwood County's meats team came back from a state contest probably, yeah, it's been six or eight, maybe 10 years ago.
00:16:03.958 --> 00:16:08.369
And Barber County had, had beaten them or, or given'em a run or something.
00:16:08.369 --> 00:16:12.178
And I said, well, who's, who's coaching Barber County's four H team?
00:16:12.178 --> 00:16:16.948
Because Lyle and Vid had, they, their team had had quite a bit of success and Hannah's as well.
00:16:16.948 --> 00:16:25.048
And, and they said some guy that's a retired meats judging, collegiate meets judging coach from Illinois or someplace.
00:16:25.048 --> 00:16:26.339
And I'm like, Dr.
00:16:26.339 --> 00:16:28.678
Tom Carr is back in the business.
00:16:29.158 --> 00:16:31.649
That's a, that's a fun full circle moment too.
00:16:31.649 --> 00:16:34.198
Are you still helping coach those 4- H teams?
00:16:34.274 --> 00:16:35.504
Yes, I am.
00:16:35.563 --> 00:16:36.104
I am.
00:16:36.494 --> 00:16:41.653
Uh, and, and we got, I guess it'd been about 2011.
00:16:41.953 --> 00:16:51.504
Uh, Tim Marshall was our extension agent at that point in time, and he came to me and said, Hey, would you be interested in helping start, uh, four H me judging team?
00:16:51.504 --> 00:16:56.724
And, and of course I said, yes, I, I would certainly be willing to help and assist with that.
00:16:56.724 --> 00:16:58.553
So we've been at it for a while.
00:16:59.063 --> 00:17:07.723
you know, it's, it's interesting that those, those first kids that I had now, uh, you know,, majority of them are, are married or getting married.
00:17:08.159 --> 00:17:19.395
A couple of'em have kids and, it's, it's so neat to see them now, contributing to, uh, the livestock and meats industry and succeeding and all that good stuff.
00:17:19.455 --> 00:17:26.026
But, uh, yes, it's, it's been, it's been fun and it's, it's challenging, Matt.
00:17:26.115 --> 00:17:43.105
There's so many things that, uh, uh, you know, tear at the kids' interest and, I tell you the biggest problem we have and in, I don't know if Carla has the same problems in Greenwood County or not, but, uh, sports just eats us up.
00:17:44.141 --> 00:17:54.250
And, uh, uh, it, it's, it's tough to balance, all the time requirements and everything that the kids are involved in and, and find time.
00:17:54.760 --> 00:18:00.641
And as you well know, in 4- H mes judging and retail identification, it's a lot of work.
00:18:00.641 --> 00:18:09.550
It's a lot of memorization and there's a lot of kids that just will not spend that much time trying to develop some level of excellence.
00:18:10.730 --> 00:18:16.901
Yeah, after, after having four kids, thus far go through that program.
00:18:16.901 --> 00:18:17.141
Yeah.
00:18:17.141 --> 00:18:21.550
It is a huge time commitment and a huge, uh, just commitment in general.
00:18:21.550 --> 00:18:29.713
And your comment about, sports schedules getting in the way is 100% valid in Greenwood County as well.
00:18:29.713 --> 00:18:36.163
And, and that's something that, our family and that our kids coaches, Carla and Jeanna have struggled with.
00:18:36.163 --> 00:18:39.733
And, and, um, if you ask our kids sports.
00:18:39.999 --> 00:18:51.098
Team coaches, they think that, uh, meats and livestock judging is a real drag on, on the kids' schedule too, because it doesn't allow them to be on every summer team.
00:18:51.098 --> 00:18:57.098
And, you know, all of these, uh, it takes'em away during the season sometimes for contests and workout trips.
00:18:57.098 --> 00:19:10.028
And so, yeah, I think as we look, and this is probably an entire podcast in and of itself, but as we look at kids club ball teams, and I would even throw in.
00:19:11.284 --> 00:19:24.784
and whatever the case may be, it's a different world that we live in today as parents and the level of commitment that is expected and, and, and the specialization that is expected by a lot of coaches and a lot of sports, uh, in general.
00:19:25.233 --> 00:19:49.054
And it doesn't allow kids to have what I consider a fairly well-rounded, um, very broad spectrum upbringing so that they can judge on the meats team and they can also do, um, three sports and they can also have a part-time job and they can also, you know, go on the 4- H Washington focus trip to DC in the summer for 10 days or
00:19:49.263 --> 00:19:49.773
Yeah.
00:19:49.804 --> 00:19:50.074
be.
00:19:50.098 --> 00:19:50.388
Yeah.
00:19:50.614 --> 00:19:52.233
All those get pushed to the back burner.
00:19:52.233 --> 00:19:53.763
And I think it's unfortunate.
00:19:53.794 --> 00:20:02.193
Uh, yes, our kids may be better in a sport or two because of it, but I don't know for sure that we're getting better at life
00:20:02.913 --> 00:20:03.364
Amen.
00:20:03.364 --> 00:20:03.423
Yeah,
00:20:03.634 --> 00:20:03.933
not
00:20:03.963 --> 00:20:04.354
I,
00:20:05.013 --> 00:20:05.253
too
00:20:05.344 --> 00:20:07.713
yep, I agree with you a hundred percent.
00:20:07.713 --> 00:20:10.263
And it, it, it is really challenging.
00:20:10.263 --> 00:20:11.403
I, you know, to,
00:20:11.433 --> 00:20:11.763
You know?
00:20:12.183 --> 00:20:16.354
uh, because there, it is a sa whichever way you go, it's a sacrifice.
00:20:16.443 --> 00:20:22.294
And, and, uh, but, uh, it's really difficult for a kid to be able to do both.
00:20:23.193 --> 00:20:27.253
And we had a young man, uh, and, and you may know him, uh.
00:20:27.429 --> 00:20:27.844
You know.
00:20:27.858 --> 00:20:39.296
Callan Smith that, was just on our 4- h uh, meets team, and I think he might've been on the state, uh, team with, with your daughter or maybe your son, I'm not sure which.
00:20:39.296 --> 00:20:53.047
But anyway,, he was able to, to kind of balance it as far as high school sports is concerned, uh, with being on the, the state team and representing Kansas, you know, at the national contest.
00:20:53.047 --> 00:20:54.606
But it was a challenge even then.
00:20:55.936 --> 00:20:56.537
No doubt.
00:20:56.537 --> 00:21:02.027
And, and some would even say that judging has taken to a, been taken to a new level.
00:21:02.027 --> 00:21:11.957
I know when I was judging, uh, at, in 4- H, we'd go to one or two contests a year, and maybe it was just because Greenwood County wasn't as competitive then as maybe we are now.
00:21:11.957 --> 00:21:15.247
But, there wouldn't be many, if any workouts.
00:21:15.247 --> 00:21:20.570
There sure wouldn't be any, um, week two, week long, there wasn't an all-star state team that I knew of.
00:21:20.570 --> 00:21:23.750
And so that's been taken to a new level as well.
00:21:23.750 --> 00:21:24.171
And, and
00:21:24.480 --> 00:21:24.770
Yeah.
00:21:25.070 --> 00:21:31.760
everybody could probably throw rocks at the other activity that's taking from quote unquote their focus.
00:21:31.760 --> 00:21:33.861
But, uh, yeah, it is, it, it's a lot.
00:21:33.861 --> 00:21:48.621
And, and I, I mean, still maintain that it's excellent for the kids, whether that is their focus or that is something that they somehow squeeze in between academics and other sports teams and, and work and life in general.
00:21:48.921 --> 00:21:52.851
Um, the busiest kids are generally the most successful kids,
00:21:53.076 --> 00:21:53.375
Yep.
00:21:53.510 --> 00:21:53.840
I,
00:21:53.885 --> 00:21:54.875
Without question.
00:21:54.980 --> 00:21:56.901
and I see it all the way through adulthood.
00:21:56.901 --> 00:22:01.790
They learn to prioritize their time and they learn to put priorities on what's most important.
00:22:01.790 --> 00:22:08.540
And they know that they're gonna have some adversity in the other areas, maybe from challenges and coaches and things like that.
00:22:08.540 --> 00:22:11.871
But, uh, yeah, I, I think it's a good life lesson for'em to balance all those.
00:22:12.346 --> 00:22:12.566
Yep.
00:22:12.635 --> 00:22:13.365
Very definitely.
00:22:13.976 --> 00:22:41.155
And, you know, along those lines, I even think as I see folks that have achieved success, whether it be in production, agriculture, and on volunteer boards or even, uh, agribusiness or doctors and lawyers and bankers and everything else, these kids that grew up on some type of a competition team meats judging livestock, judging range, land judging, whatever the case may be, it seems like.
00:22:41.486 --> 00:23:02.635
Either they have the communication skills that get their foot in the door and get that job, or they have the decision making skills to let them excel, but that's a common thread, and I think a lot of people that are listening to this podcast are probably nodding their head in agreement because they participated on one of those teams, if not several.
00:23:04.046 --> 00:23:25.955
What is it, what's the special sauce that, whether it be collegiate or even 4- H and FFA judging team kids have and learn that develops them into, for lack of a better word, more, service oriented and, and, uh, more effective contributors to society as they go forth.
00:23:26.635 --> 00:23:28.431
That's a really good question.
00:23:28.431 --> 00:23:50.250
You know, and I, and, and as I look back and, and you've already identified, some of the characteristics of, of those individuals that go through a judging experience, I think one of the, the, the biggest, attributes is for most, I think it teaches self-discipline.
00:23:51.467 --> 00:23:51.686
Uh.
00:23:51.761 --> 00:24:08.439
know, time management becomes a, a, a huge factor, uh, especially for those kids that are participating in on collegiate teams and everything they've got going on with academics and other clubs responsibilities and things like that.
00:24:08.979 --> 00:24:12.679
Trying to, organize, their time.
00:24:12.989 --> 00:24:17.009
That, that's a huge lesson to learn there and, and.
00:24:17.266 --> 00:24:19.556
that takes, self-discipline.
00:24:19.556 --> 00:24:24.605
You, you have got to prioritize things which is a huge lesson to learn.
00:24:25.236 --> 00:24:40.415
And then after you go through that process and, and you look back and it might take a few years, but you look back and, and say, wow, I gained an awful lot out of that experience, then it's payback time.
00:24:40.865 --> 00:24:51.786
I think that person comes to the point where, you know, uh, I need to give back this, this has made me a, a successful person in, in, in this career or that career.
00:24:51.786 --> 00:24:53.256
I've gained so much from that.
00:24:53.736 --> 00:24:55.625
Uh, I need to give back.
00:24:55.625 --> 00:24:59.675
And I think that's where the service part, comes back, you know?
00:24:59.826 --> 00:25:05.655
And, uh, mine started, like I said initially, and I get pretty emotional about it.
00:25:05.655 --> 00:25:10.246
It was 4- H, uh, uh, I would never.
00:25:11.550 --> 00:25:31.446
Uh, be successful in what I had done if it hadn't been for those initial experiences, you know, and we had parents, uh, volunteers that, that gave of their time and effort, great county agents, people that were willing to sacrifice their time for kids.
00:25:32.557 --> 00:25:36.457
And, uh, that, that just had a tremendous impact on my life.
00:25:36.457 --> 00:25:39.426
And I had great, obviously great support from my parents.
00:25:39.707 --> 00:25:48.826
But it, it was others that also were very impactful as far as 4- H leaders and teachers and coaches and so forth, you know?
00:25:49.186 --> 00:25:55.696
And so, uh, I, I felt a, a great responsibility in trying to pay that back.
00:25:57.096 --> 00:26:02.615
Well, I'm told that, and I think I may have even had a podcast guest that would've been the result of this.
00:26:02.615 --> 00:26:32.135
But when you were at the University of Illinois, did you not kind of serve the industry by maybe casting a little wider net and working with some kids may not have grown up on a farm or ranch in rural Illinois or, or even the rural Midwest, but maybe came out of an urban or suburban area and get them into and interested in the meat science field, the animal science field, and maybe more specifically the meats judging team.
00:26:33.036 --> 00:26:39.236
and how did that, I guess, play into that, paying it back that you mentioned there before?
00:26:40.695 --> 00:26:40.986
Well,
00:26:41.060 --> 00:26:41.280
Um.
00:26:41.830 --> 00:26:42.641
very definitely.
00:26:42.641 --> 00:26:53.480
We had young people that, that enrolled the University of Illinois in Department of Animal Science with like many, their major goal to get to vet school.
00:26:54.671 --> 00:26:54.961
Okay,
00:26:55.056 --> 00:27:10.816
so we had a significant number of kids coming out of the collar counties of Chicago, and other urban areas that had tremendously good high school preparation in the biological sciences.
00:27:11.746 --> 00:27:12.675
And so, uh.
00:27:13.193 --> 00:27:20.753
They would come in and major in animal sciences because that was probably the best way of getting into vet school.
00:27:21.653 --> 00:27:29.993
And initially my meat science introductory meat science course was required of all animal science majors in the department.
00:27:30.804 --> 00:27:46.528
And so, through that I was able to attract a fairly significant number of kids that had urban backgrounds, non-ag backgrounds, kind of get them turned on a little bit.
00:27:46.528 --> 00:27:48.179
And they would come out for the meet team.
00:27:48.538 --> 00:28:08.308
And because of their intelligence as well as their biological science background, many of those when either if they didn't go on to vet school, they went on to graduate school in meat science or, or ment nutrition or that type of thing, and maintained them within the, the animal science department.
00:28:08.308 --> 00:28:26.291
So, uh, and, and, uh, Matt, the thing is concerning you, that is, you know, as I was leaving, uh, in, in, in 2010, I was also undergraduate teaching coordinator for the department, for a number of years.
00:28:26.291 --> 00:28:39.791
And so I had the opportunity, which was fantastic, uh, to interact with many parents and their kids as they were coming to visit the University of Illinois, possibly a place to come for college.
00:28:40.271 --> 00:28:43.402
And, uh, I enjoyed that very much.
00:28:43.402 --> 00:28:49.652
But, you know, uh, it got to the point where, at the U of I, it was 80% women,
00:28:50.412 --> 00:28:50.832
Mm-hmm.
00:28:51.481 --> 00:28:54.481
men in the Department of Animal Sciences.
00:28:54.961 --> 00:29:02.162
And, uh, it was probably, you know, and the majority of that obviously were from urban areas.
00:29:03.001 --> 00:29:19.547
So, you know, the great thing about'EM is many of them were pretty open-minded to other career avenues in animal science once they got in and got their feet wet and say,"wow, there's a lot of stuff here." You know?
00:29:19.846 --> 00:29:35.477
Uh, and so, you know, uh, subliminally, my, my, my goal was to convince them, you know, not to go on to vet school, but to go to become animal scientists, meat scientists, and go on to graduate school, which many of them did.
00:29:36.406 --> 00:29:46.696
Well, I'm sure you probably weren't on the Christmas card list from the dean of the vet school, but, uh, I would say that there would be lots of folks highly indebted to you.
00:29:46.696 --> 00:29:52.007
I, I, the podcast I was mentioning was Diana Clark, possibly one of your
00:29:52.342 --> 00:29:55.321
Uh, very definitely, yes, very definitely.
00:29:55.336 --> 00:30:02.967
she would've been, we had a podcast with her, gosh, three or four years ago, first season I think of, of this podcast.
00:30:03.126 --> 00:30:03.416
Yeah.
00:30:03.777 --> 00:30:11.997
she mentioned that, that that was her course exactly as you kind of described, and that you, you, um, kind of changed that course.
00:30:11.997 --> 00:30:14.576
And, and she's tickled pink that you did, I think
00:30:14.616 --> 00:30:15.267
Yeah, yeah,
00:30:15.386 --> 00:30:16.166
days anyway,
00:30:16.211 --> 00:30:16.541
yeah.
00:30:16.541 --> 00:30:26.223
She's, she's a, she's a great gal and, and her husband, of course, he came from Southern Illinois and he wa came from a,, an Angus background.
00:30:26.223 --> 00:30:31.354
And so, uh, but it was the meats judging team and that, that type of thing that got'em together.
00:30:31.354 --> 00:30:34.189
So, uh, you know, that was a plus there.
00:30:34.368 --> 00:30:38.328
chart, chart career paths, but you're a matchmaker as well.
00:30:38.328 --> 00:30:38.808
So that,
00:30:38.979 --> 00:30:39.269
Yeah.
00:30:39.288 --> 00:30:39.828
impressive.
00:30:43.489 --> 00:30:49.489
So jumping forward, and we can come back, we could talk about judging teams and meat science all day long.
00:30:49.548 --> 00:31:06.739
Um, today there's a, there's a topic that's fairly front burner, uh, on a lot of people's minds, especially in the meat science community, and that is the yield grade equation, uh, that USDA uses to estimate retail yield and cutability of carcasses.
00:31:06.798 --> 00:31:14.088
Um, you stayed up on some of the changes that they are talking about and some of the research that, is being done?
00:31:14.088 --> 00:31:15.709
Texas Tech would be leading that, of
00:31:15.959 --> 00:31:16.179
Yes.
00:31:16.249 --> 00:31:16.538
Yeah.
00:31:16.909 --> 00:31:18.169
or is that, is that
00:31:18.398 --> 00:31:19.259
So that something you still
00:31:19.368 --> 00:31:19.429
on?
00:31:20.118 --> 00:31:21.784
Yes, I, I, I, I do.
00:31:21.784 --> 00:31:32.253
And, uh, my wife and I still go to our, uh, the national Meetings of American Meat Science Association, which is called the Reciprocal Meat Conference.
00:31:32.673 --> 00:31:35.854
And, uh, we have continued to attend them.
00:31:36.243 --> 00:31:44.111
And, and, and part of that reason is to try to try to stay abreast a little bit of what some of the research is going on and doing.
00:31:44.111 --> 00:31:53.800
And yeah, Dale Woerner and, and the guys at Tech have done a, a great job in trying to, uh, I guess you would say modernize.
00:31:54.641 --> 00:32:03.431
Uh, our yield grading system, uh, to make it a more accurate predictor of the composition of, uh, of beef carcasses.
00:32:03.911 --> 00:32:17.151
And, uh, you know, I think research has indicated that, uh, our current methodology, doesn't do as accurate a job as it it should in, in estimating the composition of beef.
00:32:17.230 --> 00:32:38.731
So I, I'm all for this, new, research efforts that are being made and, and trying to identify, methodology in the cooler that'll work as far as, uh, you know, the actual industry is concerned, online grading and that type of thing, and, and doing a more accurate job of predicting.
00:32:38.731 --> 00:32:53.781
And so, uh, I think there's, there's still a lot of work to be done in that area, but, uh, they are moving forward and I, I, I think the, the beef industry recognizes that, we need something that is more accurate than what we're currently using.
00:32:54.172 --> 00:33:02.635
Obviously our cattle have, there's been a lot of, changes in, in the cattle that we, Breed and feed.
00:33:03.115 --> 00:33:12.026
Over the years since, I guess that would've come out about 1965 as far as our USDA yield grades are concerned somewhere in there.
00:33:12.516 --> 00:33:22.086
So I think it's, it's, it's a necessary thing that has, has, has finally reached the level where the, the whole industry says, yep, we gotta do something here.
00:33:23.269 --> 00:33:29.824
so I, I appreciate the, the effort that, that Texas Tech and others are making in that, that arena.
00:33:29.824 --> 00:33:37.729
And I look forward to our meetings here in June to see, to get an update on, on what you know has happened this past year.
00:33:39.078 --> 00:33:39.318
Yeah.
00:33:39.513 --> 00:33:44.493
committee is doing a lot of work, as is Texas Tech and the other participating researchers.
00:33:44.493 --> 00:33:46.384
And yeah, it's time, it's time.
00:33:46.384 --> 00:33:47.673
The cattle have changed.
00:33:47.673 --> 00:34:15.077
Um, uh, the management has changed, genetics have changed, and we've gotta do as good a job with the technologies that we have today to make sure that we're better estimating that, in my opinion, and I know it's not gonna be easy anytime we make a change that affects the way we market and merchandise and value cattle, um, there are some growing pains and obviously there's some logistical changes in the plants and things like that, that we'll have to consider as well.
00:34:15.077 --> 00:34:25.126
But yeah, we've gotta, probably gotta do a better job than what we're doing with 60-year-old equations and, and cattle that are vastly different than they were in the,
00:34:25.222 --> 00:34:25.512
Yeah,
00:34:25.516 --> 00:34:27.177
early mid sixties when that work was done.
00:34:27.737 --> 00:34:28.487
very definitely.
00:34:28.487 --> 00:34:32.206
You know, it worked well for a while, that's for sure, and,
00:34:32.217 --> 00:34:32.226
sure.
00:34:32.717 --> 00:34:37.217
and made us well aware of, of the problems we had from a compositional standpoint.
00:34:37.217 --> 00:34:40.126
But, uh, it, it's time to modernize.
00:34:41.581 --> 00:34:48.331
So that's a change that we've seen cattle types and breeds and cutability and, and muscling and things like that.
00:34:48.782 --> 00:35:09.501
Um, through your meat science career, what would you say would be the top one, two, maybe three things that you saw change from when you went to K State and maybe got started that, meat science path in the late sixties until you retired 10 or 15 years ago?
00:35:09.501 --> 00:35:11.922
What, what have you seen that would be the biggest items?
00:35:12.672 --> 00:35:25.202
Well, you know, if, if we're, if we're looking at the beef industry, the beef cattle industry, I, I would say one of the major transformations that we've seen is, the tremendous change in, in the quality.
00:35:25.996 --> 00:35:45.706
Of our beef, you know, uh, now the percentage of cattle that are, are grading prime is, is, uh, amazing compared to really just 20 years ago, you know, we, we, we evolved and, and all of a sudden we had the continental breeds making tremendous impact
00:35:45.782 --> 00:35:46.126
running them
00:35:46.126 --> 00:35:50.327
on the composition of our cattle, trimming them up and making heavier muscle and everything.
00:35:50.867 --> 00:36:11.150
But, we lost marbling if you compared it to a straight bred Angus or shore horn, or it may be in some cases even the herford and, uh, through genetics and, and feeding, we've seen tremendous evolution in, in, in the increase in marbling and, the eating quality of our meat.
00:36:11.481 --> 00:36:13.371
Uh, I think that's been a huge plus.
00:36:13.371 --> 00:36:22.766
I think, you know, I, I am, I'm a big, beef eater and, uh,, the improvement in palatability of our beef is, is amazing.
00:36:22.766 --> 00:36:37.085
We dad always, we had an old Jersey Hereford was our milk cow jersey, Hereford Cross, and,, her offspring was what we consumed after he'd feed it out.
00:36:37.476 --> 00:36:45.996
And we never, never had a tough piece of meat that jersey influence and marbling in that old herford.
00:36:46.445 --> 00:36:49.985
Uh, we had a lot of marbling in, in, in our meat.
00:36:49.985 --> 00:36:51.762
And, so I, I grew up.
00:36:52.226 --> 00:36:55.827
Not knowing really what, what tough meat was.
00:36:56.532 --> 00:37:09.177
And, and then when I got away from home and started selecting beef or going to a retail store and, and, and buying beef, Hey, there's some inconsistency here.
00:37:09.777 --> 00:37:14.246
You know, every once in a while you'd get one that, that, uh, was tougher than shoe leather.
00:37:14.706 --> 00:37:21.817
So I think we have made great inroads, uh, in improving the palatability of our beef.
00:37:21.817 --> 00:37:26.706
And I'd say that's been a real plus in our industry that, that I have seen.
00:37:26.706 --> 00:37:46.431
And,, and I saw it so much in the pork industry, we, we, the though pendulum swings from one side to the other, uh, in, in the seventies and in pigs, we were really concerned with PSE and, and we were moving from real fat hogs to super lean pigs.
00:37:47.197 --> 00:37:54.286
And all of a sudden, uh, we had palatability problems in, in the pork industry.
00:37:54.286 --> 00:37:58.146
And so, you and I think we've improved there a bunch also.
00:37:58.507 --> 00:38:14.266
And, uh, but, but, becoming aware, I guess Matt, on the consumer side, has been an evolution in, in our industry, in the meat industry, in the, in the, the whole, the whole livestock industry.
00:38:14.726 --> 00:38:23.637
And recognizing that if we are gonna sell a product, uh, it better be consistent and it better be palatable.
00:38:24.266 --> 00:38:36.697
And to me, the amazing evidence of that is that we're consuming beef at ungodly prices right now, and the consumers are still doing it.
00:38:37.646 --> 00:38:37.936
Yeah.
00:38:38.202 --> 00:38:46.362
it just, it just blows my mind how this market has hung in there with the price, uh, of beef.
00:38:46.362 --> 00:38:49.931
My wife and I bought a quarter from one of our 4- Hs.
00:38:50.771 --> 00:38:58.601
And not too long ago, you know, and by the time I calculated out what that cost and everything, holy cow, you know, what have we done here, dear?
00:38:58.882 --> 00:39:03.501
But, you know, uh, we went ahead and, and, and did it and are enjoying that beef.
00:39:04.101 --> 00:39:06.329
But, that's the amazing thing to me.
00:39:06.329 --> 00:39:06.994
And, and,
00:39:07.003 --> 00:39:07.543
random.
00:39:07.829 --> 00:39:12.358
you know, uh, so I think our, our, our cattle producers.
00:39:12.943 --> 00:39:24.351
Everybody in between is recognizing, Hey, the consumer is king and we need to make sure our product is predictable and repeatable and is satisfying.
00:39:24.920 --> 00:39:37.431
And I think it is not that we're, we're, we're at the apex yet, but, uh, uh, we've been tr made tremendous progress in that area and in, in producing a product.
00:39:37.436 --> 00:39:45.621
And, and I guess the, the big thing is recognizing a, as an industry that we have got to produce a product
00:39:45.710 --> 00:39:46.061
These
00:39:46.101 --> 00:39:52.971
that, uh, uh, consumers will come back and, and pay these wild prices for in which they are doing.
00:39:52.971 --> 00:40:04.021
You know, and a lot of that goes back to, our advertising, you know, uh, supporting research, advertising, all of that, is critically important to that.
00:40:04.971 --> 00:40:06.740
Yeah, there's, there's no doubt.
00:40:06.740 --> 00:40:19.061
Um, just in my time in the beef industry, the, as you called it, consumer awareness, our that with that consumer in mind have made a huge difference.
00:40:19.061 --> 00:40:24.840
And I think marketing and putting money to incentivize us doing those things, not just
00:40:25.121 --> 00:40:25.456
Yeah, yeah,
00:40:25.471 --> 00:40:28.485
right thing to do, has been, has been critical as well.
00:40:28.485 --> 00:40:29.101
Obviously.
00:40:29.746 --> 00:40:29.806
yeah.
00:40:29.811 --> 00:40:30.721
There's no, no question.
00:40:30.721 --> 00:40:30.871
That
00:40:30.871 --> 00:40:45.300
What, what is an area maybe that we still need to work on or maybe we need to work on now because of, as an unintended consequence of, of, some gains that we've made in quality and things like that from a meat science
00:40:45.351 --> 00:40:45.641
yeah.
00:40:45.960 --> 00:40:51.090
Is there something that's looming out there that we have to be aware of and, and address fairly soon?
00:40:53.460 --> 00:40:55.710
You know, that's a good question.
00:40:55.710 --> 00:41:28.893
I,, I probably have been far enough away from it that I'm, I'm not fully, aware of, the big problems that we're, that may be in, in front of us from, from a meat science standpoint, one of the things that has always, that has blown me away, and we're looking at beef here primarily, but it's also in, in the swine industry, is, uh, these endpoint live weights that we have, the industry has gone to, you know, the cattle are, are, are so heavy now.
00:41:29.884 --> 00:41:34.083
Uh, merchandising at, you know, 1500 pounds.
00:41:34.454 --> 00:41:41.893
I go down to, uh, we've got a new little, uh, beef processor, here in Medicine Lodge and, uh, a new plant.
00:41:41.983 --> 00:41:46.903
And, you know, they're, they're looking for, for, cattle or, or carcass weights.
00:41:46.903 --> 00:41:52.246
That would be, you know, maybe more in that carcass weight of, 850 pounds.
00:41:53.086 --> 00:41:54.467
We go to our big process.
00:41:54.467 --> 00:42:06.527
There's a good grief, there's, you know, rail after rail over a thousand pounds, and that's always been one thing that has concerned me, bothered me a little bit.
00:42:06.976 --> 00:42:14.226
I fully appreciate, the packers putting their expenses over a greater tonnage of beef.
00:42:14.231 --> 00:42:15.817
I, I understand that.
00:42:16.371 --> 00:42:18.052
And, and, and that type of thing.
00:42:18.052 --> 00:42:27.322
But I, I just, you know, I, I wonder, is there going to be a point where we reduce the number of elephants that we raise?
00:42:28.251 --> 00:42:59.126
I, you know, I, I, I, that's my concern is how far are we going to go, for, you know, as far as the cow herd size is concerned, and I'm talking about, uh, size of cows and the efficiency involved and, and that type of research, genetics involved and, and, and heavier cattle being able to handle things in a feedlot situation or the stress of heat and cold and all of that kind of a thing.
00:42:59.726 --> 00:43:09.795
Have it gotten too big, you know, those are things that, that I just wonder on, on the sideline and, and whether we're dealing with that question.
00:43:09.795 --> 00:43:10.996
Maybe it's not a problem, but,
00:43:12.472 --> 00:43:18.742
I, I share your concern and I, I believe that it is a problem personally.
00:43:18.802 --> 00:43:25.643
But in a time you just talked about, we continue to see consumer demand at all time highs.
00:43:25.643 --> 00:43:33.052
They can't get enough of the product that we have, and we continue to not rebuild the cow herd domestically.
00:43:33.052 --> 00:43:41.242
And so think the market is just saying, we're gonna do whatever we can to get every ounce of beef that we can to these consumers.
00:43:41.242 --> 00:43:45.443
And, yeah, it, it opens, in my opinion, it opens a.
00:43:45.818 --> 00:43:59.588
Pandora's box of unintended consequences, whether we're talking about cow size or uh, animal welfare in the feed yard with these bigger cattle on the same skeleton and, and you know, visceral organs.
00:43:59.588 --> 00:44:09.128
There's all kinds of challenges that I think that causes, but I will share with you, and I don't think that this is, uh, confidential, but.
00:44:10.043 --> 00:44:31.132
A processor whom we deliver cattle to occasionally just sent out a letter yesterday announcing that heavyweight discounts, uh, the threshold that used to be a 4% allowance for, uh, 1100 to 1,150 pound cattle is now gonna move up to a 17.5% threshold.
00:44:31.523 --> 00:44:39.293
Um, they're gonna decrease the discount on those, I mean, 1100 to 1,150 pound carcasses.
00:44:40.103 --> 00:44:41.663
not that old.
00:44:41.663 --> 00:44:52.643
I don't feel, and I remember when 1100 to 1,150 pound live weights not uncommon as an average a pen of cattle coming outta the feed yard.
00:44:53.097 --> 00:44:53.318
Yes.
00:44:54.112 --> 00:45:11.152
and in a mere 30 years, we've moved that to the threshold that we're willing to take, 17.5% meeting that because we're trying to get as many pounds per hook, per carcass, per head outta the feed yard, however you wanna look at it.
00:45:11.603 --> 00:45:25.463
Um, yeah, there's, there's bound to be some fallout from things like that, but yeah, I think the market is telling us that at least for now, at least for now, it is not going back the other way.
00:45:25.858 --> 00:45:26.137
Yeah.
00:45:26.400 --> 00:45:26.621
Yep.
00:45:26.992 --> 00:45:34.028
So it, it will be, yeah, it will be interesting to see kind of how the industry digests that and, and, what happens from here.
00:45:34.028 --> 00:45:51.159
But yeah, there are, I think there are going to be necessary changes to management and to breeding programs and everything else in order to do this and still keep cows that can survive in the Red Hills of Barber County and, and, uh, the Flint Hills and really any place we talk about
00:45:51.418 --> 00:45:51.708
Yeah.
00:45:52.028 --> 00:46:03.909
of, maybe, maybe some spots that are right next to a, uh, an ethanol plant or a grain facility or something that can feed them a little bit more energy and calories than what we can on Native Range most places.
00:46:04.179 --> 00:46:04.469
Yeah.
00:46:04.829 --> 00:46:07.628
I mean, that'd be a huge problem here in county.
00:46:07.628 --> 00:46:08.869
There's no question about that.
00:46:09.648 --> 00:46:09.978
Yep.
00:46:11.088 --> 00:46:20.947
So I had, uh, it's interesting, I've had a couple different podcast listeners, that made a suggestion for a podcast guest.
00:46:22.918 --> 00:46:23.967
Sorry about that.
00:46:23.998 --> 00:46:24.478
About that.
00:46:24.507 --> 00:46:26.277
Nope, you're good, you're good.
00:46:26.277 --> 00:46:42.268
I'm just impressed that, uh, here you consider yourself retired in quiet, uh, calm Barber County, Kansas, and yet you get as many phone calls during a podcast interview as, uh, as some of the most highly compensated execs that I've had on here.
00:46:42.268 --> 00:46:44.532
So obviously you're a busy guy, Dr.
00:46:44.532 --> 00:46:44.847
Carr.
00:46:45.777 --> 00:46:46.378
I love it.
00:46:46.467 --> 00:46:47.038
I love it.
00:46:48.387 --> 00:46:57.208
In that regard, you have been requested as a guest by multiple listeners of this podcast, uh, un unconnected.
00:46:57.208 --> 00:47:02.277
I might add that, that all lobbied for your inclusion on here and, and rightly so.
00:47:02.637 --> 00:47:06.867
I asked are there any good stories that I need to bring out and make sure he tells?
00:47:06.867 --> 00:47:13.827
And one of'em said, I don't know if this is true, but I don't think he owned his own personal vehicle when he was at U of I.
00:47:13.827 --> 00:47:17.007
He always took public transit to work.
00:47:17.007 --> 00:47:19.228
And is that, be close?
00:47:19.527 --> 00:47:21.088
Well, no, you, you,
00:47:21.387 --> 00:47:21.467
No, you, you,
00:47:21.628 --> 00:47:23.697
you are exactly right.
00:47:23.788 --> 00:47:26.217
Uh, we, we made the decision.
00:47:26.788 --> 00:47:31.958
Champaign Urbana had a great mass transit, district bus system.
00:47:32.047 --> 00:47:37.358
And, uh, I could get, I could get within a block and a half of the meat lab.
00:47:37.987 --> 00:47:44.483
So my wife and I made a decision, uh, we'll just have one vehicle and, I rode the bus.
00:47:45.023 --> 00:47:45.293
Back
00:47:46.117 --> 00:47:53.137
To work and being 50% extension state specialists and meats.
00:47:53.768 --> 00:48:09.240
Uh, we had a re, especially in the, in the seventies and eighties, we had a, uh, a really vibrant extension, program in animal sciences and with regional, specialists and, and state specialists.
00:48:09.271 --> 00:48:13.610
And, we were, we held a lot of meetings out in the state.
00:48:14.271 --> 00:48:17.931
And so between being a meat judging coach.
00:48:19.175 --> 00:48:20.556
Extension specialist.
00:48:20.585 --> 00:48:25.235
Uh, I spent about half my time and it seemed like an estate vehicle.
00:48:25.235 --> 00:48:33.226
So between the bus system and having a state vehicle going to extension meetings, I didn't have to worry about another vehicle
00:48:34.190 --> 00:48:34.610
That's
00:48:34.635 --> 00:48:35.175
to work.
00:48:36.585 --> 00:48:37.246
Have you, uh,
00:48:37.335 --> 00:48:37.556
Well have you, uh,
00:48:37.726 --> 00:48:42.286
gotten the mass transit system in, uh, medicine Lodge up and running?
00:48:42.286 --> 00:48:45.135
Or have you had to buy a, buy a car or a truck now?
00:48:46.936 --> 00:48:48.315
a new pair of tennis shoes and
00:48:49.635 --> 00:48:50.175
Atta boy.
00:48:50.356 --> 00:48:51.106
There you go.
00:48:53.626 --> 00:49:00.856
Well, that's, uh, that saves some pennies, so you could buy a better chainsaw for cutting those, uh, those cedars down
00:49:01.036 --> 00:49:07.246
you know, it, it, it, it, it's amazing really how much it did save us and, uh, uh,
00:49:07.635 --> 00:49:08.025
yeah.
00:49:08.416 --> 00:49:09.826
it was well, well worth it.
00:49:09.856 --> 00:49:10.695
suburban America.
00:49:10.726 --> 00:49:11.146
Yeah.
00:49:11.206 --> 00:49:11.536
Yeah.
00:49:11.536 --> 00:49:21.465
That's, uh, that's a huge cost that of us have on a bottom line, especially if we have any extra vehicles sitting around when we figure in, especially today, insurance and everything else.
00:49:21.465 --> 00:49:22.425
Oh my, yes.
00:49:22.485 --> 00:49:23.295
was interesting.
00:49:23.295 --> 00:49:32.646
I was expecting some very, very pointed meat science type of a question that I needed to inquire about, and instead they said, I don't think he owned a personal vehicle.
00:49:34.740 --> 00:49:35.360
We had more.
00:49:35.856 --> 00:49:36.186
Yeah.
00:49:36.396 --> 00:49:38.166
Well, that's, that's good.
00:49:38.166 --> 00:49:42.036
And it makes it, it made sense then, and, and probably even more so today.
00:49:42.664 --> 00:49:55.155
Any other great stories or memories, whether it be from, coaching meets teams or teaching or just industry extension work that, uh, that you have, that you think would with listeners?
00:49:55.900 --> 00:50:00.164
I, I, I had one, just an amazing thing happen to me.
00:50:00.315 --> 00:50:02.295
Uh, in, uh,
00:50:02.625 --> 00:50:02.844
Uh,
00:50:02.925 --> 00:50:08.985
1986, uh, I got a phone call from a, the Wall Street Journal.
00:50:09.375 --> 00:50:16.474
An editor of the Wall Street Journal and he said, I wanna do a story, on meats judging.
00:50:16.985 --> 00:50:30.695
He said, I called, uh, the, uh, livestock and meat board and they said for me to contact you and said, we wanna do it with a university that has had some success in this
00:50:30.804 --> 00:50:31.264
in this
00:50:31.355 --> 00:50:36.925
thing called meat judging, but is also, is involved in NCAA athletics.
00:50:37.788 --> 00:50:44.307
And I, I said, well, I said, you know, uh, we're not too good in football right here at the U of I.
00:50:44.307 --> 00:50:52.378
At that point in time, I said, uh, uh, you might wanna, you might wanna check with the University of Nebraska or something like that.
00:50:52.378 --> 00:50:53.427
And he said, well, no.
00:50:53.427 --> 00:50:57.927
He said, we, he said, I was told I really needed to talk to you.
00:50:59.005 --> 00:51:01.795
and I thought this was, this was gotta be a joke.
00:51:02.244 --> 00:51:06.835
And, and so anyway, he said, we, we exchanged numbers and stuff.
00:51:06.835 --> 00:51:11.364
And he said, I'd like to, I'd like to, to be at a contest with you.
00:51:11.934 --> 00:51:17.659
Go to go to the, the, the contest and kind interact with your team and stuff.
00:51:17.659 --> 00:51:18.980
Are you crazy?
00:51:18.980 --> 00:51:20.809
And, and so anyway, uh.
00:51:21.246 --> 00:51:24.157
we signed off and I thought that'd be the end of it.
00:51:24.277 --> 00:51:37.507
Well, he called and said, uh, this was in the spring semester and we didn't start, I didn't start my judging teams till the spring semester, and we would go to a couple spring contests, you know, just kind of get our feet wet.
00:51:38.077 --> 00:51:53.563
And, uh, we went to, to that point in time, the, the Great Plains invitation, which was held in, in, at Sioux Falls, South Dakota, and, go to the southeastern contest that would be in the southeastern part of the state in, uh, country in April.
00:51:54.432 --> 00:52:02.952
So, anyway, I'll be danged in, uh, February, this guy calls back up and he says, you remember me?
00:52:02.952 --> 00:52:03.672
I said, well, yeah.
00:52:04.677 --> 00:52:16.557
And, and, and so make a long story short, he, he goes and, and meets us, flies in to Sioux Falls, South Dakota, and he kind of goes with his contest.
00:52:16.557 --> 00:52:19.108
Of course, we're just started, this is our first contest.
00:52:19.108 --> 00:52:21.777
I, we may have been dead ass last, I don't remember.
00:52:22.197 --> 00:52:34.632
And, uh, anyway, he, he does a story and, uh, I'm driving from picking some pork carcass data up, from, a, uh, packing plant in Illinois.
00:52:34.632 --> 00:52:36.492
And I'm listening to WLS.
00:52:37.646 --> 00:53:04.271
And all of a sudden this guy comes on and says, you know, can you believe this in the Wall Street Journal, and, uh, son of a Gun, they had done a pencil caricature of me with my hard hat on frock on in the middle of a beef cooler and had written this story and matt, you cannot believe what all I heard
00:53:04.527 --> 00:53:04.847
I heard.
00:53:06.041 --> 00:53:08.681
from, from, from that, you know?
00:53:08.681 --> 00:53:23.192
And I find out, well, it's the first time a faculty member at the U of I had been on the front page of Wall Street Journal and I, I even got a phone call from, uh, from the football coach at that point in time.
00:53:23.192 --> 00:53:27.362
'cause I made a statement that we probably won more contest than the football team had.
00:53:27.666 --> 00:53:39.092
And, and, uh, so anyway, uh, it, it was, uh, something I never dreamed would be such a, a big deal as it was.
00:53:39.092 --> 00:53:46.262
And, uh,, got a lot of, uh, I guess you'd say positive publicity, you know, out of that.
00:53:46.322 --> 00:53:55.271
But, uh, it did, uh, elevate intercollegiate meat judging., Somewhat, you know, because of that, that, that one article.
00:53:55.722 --> 00:53:56.472
And, uh,
00:53:56.632 --> 00:53:56.831
uh,
00:53:57.072 --> 00:53:58.541
but, uh, I was shocked.
00:53:58.541 --> 00:54:07.302
I said, and I about wrecked the car as I was driving, you know, with this guy came over the, the radio and said, can you believe this?
00:54:07.722 --> 00:54:11.291
And then I got into the office and, and my secretary said, my golly.
00:54:11.291 --> 00:54:13.271
He says, this phone's been ringing off the hook.
00:54:13.271 --> 00:54:15.461
Said everybody in the world's trying to get ahold of you.
00:54:15.461 --> 00:54:17.831
And it was quite the deal.
00:54:19.052 --> 00:54:24.387
and in 1986, obviously you weren't carrying a cell phone and so you didn't know anything about it,
00:54:24.461 --> 00:54:25.181
No.
00:54:25.367 --> 00:54:37.541
Had had no, no idea till I pulled into the, to the meat lab that there was anything going on at all, you know, and, but it was, it was front page of the Wall Street Journal.
00:54:38.157 --> 00:54:39.956
Well, that's, that's awesome.
00:54:39.956 --> 00:54:52.286
And, and you know, even in today's day and age with social media and, and everybody having a camera and a, opportunity to, know, within seconds put something out there for the world to see.
00:54:52.286 --> 00:55:24.139
I, I think we have to recognize those opportunities and, and you obviously have through your years whether it be working with 4- H kids now, uh, whether it be being a four H kid back in the, uh, in the fifties and sixties, or even in between time when you were there at U of I and working with kids of all different areas and backgrounds and everything else, that opportunity to, as you said, elevate meats judging or elevate farming and ranching, or elevate agriculture or even ourselves.
00:55:24.139 --> 00:55:26.659
I, I think those are times that can't be missed.
00:55:26.690 --> 00:55:27.289
And,
00:55:27.409 --> 00:55:27.630
Yes.
00:55:27.800 --> 00:55:31.460
up without the least, understanding of why.
00:55:31.519 --> 00:55:42.079
But doing the things that you've done through the years, I think give, give a perfect opportunity for us to put that best foot forward because that's a story that people are wanting to hear and.
00:55:42.469 --> 00:55:42.920
Yep.
00:55:43.070 --> 00:55:46.963
better to tell it than than folks like you and, and, producers here in agriculture,
00:55:47.233 --> 00:55:47.592
Yeah.
00:55:48.043 --> 00:55:52.637
You know, I, I, I follow a couple of, PO podcast.
00:55:52.686 --> 00:56:00.737
Janeal Yancy mom at the meet counter does a really neat job of, of answering consumer questions.
00:56:00.737 --> 00:56:04.516
And of course, she is a meat scientist at the University of Arkansas.
00:56:04.516 --> 00:56:10.697
But, uh, and she got her PhD at at, at k State and, and does a wonderful job.
00:56:10.697 --> 00:56:17.829
And then, Brandy Frobose, you know, I, in her buzzards beat, uh, I really enjoy.
00:56:18.639 --> 00:56:31.179
Following her and she gets in, she gets some pretty caustic comments from others as she, tries to promote, uh, beef and agriculture and in the right way.
00:56:31.179 --> 00:56:39.340
And, you know, I, I celebrate those young people that, that have the guts to step out there and, and, and to do that.
00:56:39.849 --> 00:56:50.079
And it, it is just like yourself, you know, uh, telling, telling the story, and there's a lot of negative stuff out there that, that has to be, uh, combated.
00:56:50.079 --> 00:57:00.179
And, and, uh, if you do it in a, in a right, right way, I think we can make some great inroads as far as educating our, our, our public is concerned.
00:57:01.275 --> 00:57:01.485
Yep.
00:57:01.545 --> 00:57:07.650
I, I agree wholeheartedly and that's a big part of why we're doing it so I appreciate you being on here today, Dr.
00:57:07.650 --> 00:57:07.934
Carr.
00:57:07.934 --> 00:57:14.054
This has been a fun discussion and one I know that a lot of folks are gonna enjoy and appreciate and relate to as well.
00:57:14.054 --> 00:57:21.014
So thanks for your time and um, you better get back out there and cut a few more cedars in this good warm February weather.
00:57:21.719 --> 00:57:22.199
Yep.
00:57:22.769 --> 00:57:23.969
It, it's always a battle.
00:57:23.969 --> 00:57:25.139
It's a continual battle.
00:57:25.710 --> 00:57:31.949
But, but Matt, thanks a bunch for this opportunity and uh, please tell your dad, Tom, for me.
00:57:32.556 --> 00:57:32.797
it.
00:57:32.797 --> 00:57:33.936
Thanks a bunch.
00:57:34.809 --> 00:57:39.130
thanks for tuning in to Practically Ranching, brought to you by Dalebanks Angus.
00:57:39.190 --> 00:57:40.809
All the best to you and your family.
00:57:40.960 --> 00:57:43.900
May God bless each of you and we'll talk again soon.
00:57:43.900 --> 00:57:43.929
I.
