58: How Professional Service Firms Can Win Trust on LinkedIn with Sean Johnson

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All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Practical Rebels podcast.
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Hope you're all doing well out there.
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And a lot of y'all I know are local, and I know if you are uh paying attention to the weather, which it's hard to ignore, it's apocalyptic outside right now.
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So um the sunshine state is definitely a bit of a misnomer.
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But we'll jump right into it.
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We have a special guest today, Sean Johnson.
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He is the founder of Madison.
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Sean, say hello to everyone.
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Hello, hello.
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Great to be here.
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Yeah, thanks for uh thanks for jumping on.
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And Sean, for anyone, we've actually met through another client, a mutual client, and you were doing some executive thought leadership for them and stuff like that.
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But for people who aren't necessarily familiar with you, Madison, go ahead and give us the 30,000-foot view.
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Yeah, so uh Madison is a firm that helps boutique professional services firms with marketing and business development.
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We're about a little over two years old.
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Previously, I spent 12 years building an innovation consulting firm in Chicago with two other partners called Manifold.
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I had about 70 folks when I left there in 2022.
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And then nine of those years, I taught uh marketing at Kellogg and the innovation and entrepreneurship initiative.
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So yeah, these days I everything is about uh helping consulting firms grow.
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Heavy emphasis, you know, as you said, on thought leadership from the partners and managing directors, but uh also helping them kind of build a nurture relationship as well on the BD side.
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Nice.
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Yeah, and I do want to talk a little bit about that authority marketing stuff and the executive leadership, more of that B2B stuff, specifically for y'all listening on LinkedIn.
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That's sort of the modern day battleground for that space.
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So talk to me a little bit about that and what that's like.
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Yeah, I mean, so that kind of came from at the tail end of my time at my previous firm.
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We had started off as a product development shop and then we had moved upstream to enterprise.
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They'd stood up these innovation teams and needed very similar sorts of things.
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And if somebody took, you know, my class or my one of my partners taught there too, uh, or his class, or they saw us at Techstars talking or whatever, they kind of drank our Kool-Aid and our close rate was very high.
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But if not, we came in and we would lose very frequently to like the Deloitte digitals of the world.
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And we really wanted to try to deconstruct it and figure out how to kind of compete with them.
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And so we we brought in some folks from like BCG and PWC and stuff like that to kind of professionalize the practice and move beyond a founder-led sale.
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And I naively thought that they did their own thought leadership and they didn't.
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They had a whole apparatus that was producing all that stuff for them.
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And so I took it upon myself to kind of stand that up.
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And in the beginning, we were doing the same like Deloitte kind of McKinsey and sort of playbook of like long form white papers, you know, like, you know, all that kind of stuff.
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And just was really, really resource intensive and time intensive.
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And like from an organic search perspective, we weren't gonna outrank those guys for any of this stuff and you know, blah, blah, blah.
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And so, but where we did find some traction was LinkedIn.
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And I think it was because it was, it lended itself to a little bit of informality.
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It almost benefited from it seeming like you almost like walked out of a meeting with a client and were so excited to share something.
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You're like typing it out like in line at Starbucks or whatever.
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And so, so it was cheaper to produce, it was faster to produce, it played to our strengths because I think those larger organizations kind of have to round a lot of the edges off of their content in a lot of cases and and kind of vanilize it.
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And we could just sort of say what we thought.
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And, you know, so we tried to lean into kind of some of the benefits of being smaller and uh and it worked, it worked pretty well.
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We glommed on to uh Indreesson talked about this idea of like every every company is a media company now.
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And so I was like, we're a media company and each one of our personalities is like a channel.
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And so, like, you're gonna own product strategy, you're gonna own data analytics, you're gonna own change management or whatever.
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And uh, and so that worked pretty well for us.
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And so when I got antsy after leaving the firm around 18 months or so, and was like, I wonder what I want to do next.
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I was like, I wonder if other boutique firms have this situation and this problem, and they basically all do.
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And so it's like they're mostly seller doers, they know that marketing's important.
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It's like the definition of important but not urgent, they don't have time to do it, and so a similar playbook would theoretically be helpful.
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And so that was that was the beginnings of it was like we're very simple value prop.
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Like we're just gonna help you kind of create executive thought leadership primarily on LinkedIn.
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That was kind of the genesis of Madison.
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Yeah, and that's that's really I think y'all are probably ahead of the curve on that one a little bit.
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But you know, I think now I think that a lot of people look at LinkedIn, especially executives, and they know even if they're not posting, they know they should be, right?
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And I think that whenever we have clients come to us, they say, Yeah, you know, I I should be posting more on LinkedIn.
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And it's always kind of that, it's it's on a to-do list that never gets to done, right?
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Yeah, for sure.
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And I I really tell people, and we have some clients who come to us and they say they're almost against it, where they say, like, I don't want to be the face of it, or I don't, you know, I don't want it to be about me, I want it to be about the brand.
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But one of the things I always try to bring up, and I think most people get it, it resonates with them, is you know, Elon Musk.
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More people follow Elon than they do the Tesla account, the brand account.
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And I think whenever they hear that, they're like, Oh, okay, you know, so why don't you talk to me a little bit about that?
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Like, why people specifically kind of they're not tuning out the brand accounts, but they want to hear from the leadership team almost more than they want to hear from the brand at this point.
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Yeah, I mean, I think I think at least for professional services, people if you're McKinsey, you know, like nobody gets fired for hiring McKinsey or whatever it is.
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And what I tell you know our clients is like, respectfully, you're not McKinsey.
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So if you're a boutique firm for the most part, you know, yes, having a having an amazing brand is is definitely an aspirational goal and is something that you should work on.
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And people tend to buy from people, not companies.
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They tend to buy from Paul or Bob or Logan or whatever.
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And so given that, we need to lean hard into having all of our revenue generating professionals have a voice.
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And that pattern that you've observed, I mean, not Elon level, but almost to a client, the posts, especially from the leadership, will outperform the posts from the company page.
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That's a pretty consistent theme.
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And I think it mattered it mirrors my behavior.
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It's like I tend to engage more often with fate little faces rather than little logos.
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And so that isn't to say that the company page doesn't have a job because a lot of people will click from the executives to, oh, what's this little, what's this that that person has a bunch of interesting stuff.
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I who's this company that they work for, and then they go and learn about the company and you know that kind of thing.
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But yeah, I think it's uh whatever they call it social media, I guess, for a reason, you know.
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So yeah, I actually I had a shower thought this morning about that when I was kind of just thinking about our chat.
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And I do think that the social aspect of social media was lost there for a little bit, where it most it primarily, not to say that this isn't this way anymore, but it became primarily a selling ground and it wasn't really a social ground, right?
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And I think that you're kind of seeing that that shift back to the social part where people want to interact with other people.
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And I don't think that people ever lost that, but I think that brands and marketing professionals lost sight of that.
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Um they wanted their they wanted their brand.
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I think that was how you saw the rise of the influencer, right?
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You know, that people would partner with these influencers and either whitelist them and say, well, we're gonna have you do this ad from your account because it won't do as well on our brand account.
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So I do think that there's kind of that return to the the fireside chat, if you will, on social media to get people really, really keyed in on who works there.
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Because I think you're right.
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I think that if you treat all of your employees or people who work at the company as these tiny little on-ramps to the brand, I think it's more effective.
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Yeah, for sure.
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And that's I mean, you know, so one of the objections you you called out one of the objections around uh leaders, I think there's a couple of things that I run into uh with professional services firms specifically.
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So one is what you just pointed out around the the leader not wanting to quote unquote be the face of things.
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It feels narcissistic to them.
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And what I've told them is a couple of things.
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One, I'm willing to bet that it at least for most smaller firms, you are the primary revenue generator for your practice.
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And so, and we do work with them to try to help them kind of mitigate that and kind of broaden beyond that.
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But I tell them, like, I think you have a moral and ethical obligation to your team to ring the cash register and to generate inbound.
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And so this is part of that.
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I also tell them a lot of them, especially as private equity has kind of moved down to like lower market and lower middle market.
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I agree that you need to have an engine that is not just founder led, because that represents a risk to a potential acquirer.
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And so that's one of the arguments behind like I think every every revenue generating professional, and it's like if you have budget and you want to use us, great.
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But even if you don't, like, let's teach them how to do it.
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But I believe that there's a world where you can almost create a Rainmaker factory, effectively, if you give everybody the opportunity to kind of start doing the same thing.
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Because there's a Ven in your audience, but it's there's a little bit of overlap, but there's a lot that's kind of discreet there.
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And so the same process that we can use to make the founder or CEO or whatever more visible, you can do with the rest of your team.
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And yes, the CEO probably will always have a little bit better engagement just by virtue of the title.
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But yeah, so those are some of the things that I try to tell them.
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And then the last one is that they they feel they feel ick and they they feel like narcissistic about it.
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And what we try to tell them is what we have found is like we're not trying to make influencers.
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So we will never create a post for you that's like, hey, I propose to my fiance, here's five lessons about B2B sales.
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Like it's it's it's like, or humble to honor, like self-aggrandizing, like humble and humble brag stuff.
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Like we just say, like, just try to serve.
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Like, what would you tell, what did you tell the client in the meeting yesterday?
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What did you tell the prospective client in the meeting last week?
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Like, I'm willing to bet that there are other potential clients that have those same problems.
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And what we have found built trust is specificity.
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And so, like, if I go in and I'm talking about issues related to supply chain manufacturing, they're almost by definition not going to be like, quote, viral posts.
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All I care about is do 100 or 200 or 500 or 1000 or whatever of the right people see it, where they're like, we were just dealing with that problem.
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Like, yes, this person understands my world.
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That is kind of what we're aiming for here.
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So we're not trying to create cringy, you know, kinds of stuff.
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We're trying to make you like represent yourself well.
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And I feel like if you're just if you're just focused on serving and talking about ideas, it doesn't feel gross.
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It just you're just serving people, you know?
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Yeah, I I totally agree with that.
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And I I think that is what people struggle with, right?
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They don't want it to be cringe, they don't want it to be weird.
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But to your point, you know, and we a while ago, I don't I'm sure you've heard of it, but the they ask you answer from Marcus Sheeridan, he was basically early on making a case for SEO content, really.
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But it's really just the the theory is just answer the questions that people have.
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You know, you use the you use the um example of walking out of a meeting and think about how much content you could make just from that meeting alone, because more or less, if you're in the we're in the digital or in the full service branding and marketing, clients usually, by and large, have the same questions.
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And I think if you can answer those questions in a way that feels educational and feels approachable, you might answer all of those questions for everyone else who's tuned in.
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And we've just personally at the agency at Hatchmark, we've we've I feel like that's been an on-ramp for us is just being visible and just talking enough and being top of mind on those channels.
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And people eventually, even if it takes a year, people seem to eventually kind of say, Hey, you know what?
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Whenever they do have that thought, I know someone who's been talking about this stuff for a while, we'll hit them up first.
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That's a thousand percent, you know.
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So, like there, there was, I think it was Bain that said that only 5% of your audience is in market at any given time.
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So, what I tell our clients is like, I don't pay a tremendous amount of attention to how anyone post does.
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What I mostly care about is the aggregate and me showing up with consistency and hitting publish.
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Because if I get obsessed with the metrics, I will over time turn into a caricature of myself because I've learned if I say something incendiary, that gets bored, that gets more reach.
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If I post a selfie, that gets more reach.
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But like I'm not necessarily serving people with that.
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And so just focus on the aggregate.
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And even if people, even if it's not relevant to you right now, you still see my little face and my little headline reminding you what I do.
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And even if you scroll, like I just, you know, it's the whole like mere exposure effect thing that they talk about in sales, but it's happening in a passive way where I'm not being pushy and I'm not harassing you.
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And then when, you know, maybe you're doing strategic planning and it's like, you know what, we really do need to level up our brand.
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Oh, those hatchmark guys, like we should reach out to them.
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I remember talking thinking about them.
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And and that's that's kind of how it works.
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And then when they when they get on a phone with you, very rarely do they remember which post it was.
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They're just like, I've been following you for a while, and I just eventually was like, you know what, I need to have a call with Logan.
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And that's just that's how it works, you know?
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So yeah, I agree.
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I think it was one time, and just to show you, I mean, if for anyone listening, I know you know this, Sean, but how granular it gets, I think that we had already kind of been interacting or interfacing with a client previously, and we were doing this podcast, which I tell people, you know, don't focus if you want to start a podcast, it's never been easier, right?
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You jump on Riverside, you get a guest, and you just do it.
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So I've always suggested to people.
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But they listened to an episode and we talked about SEO about something, and whatever.
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I forget exactly what the topic was, but they said, Oh, I didn't even realize you guys do that much stuff.
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So that's what um prompted me to reach out.
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I don't know if that episode got, you know, it may have not even broken a hundred listens, you know what I mean?
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But the right person heard it at the right time.
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It really, and you know, what is that worth?
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It cost me an hour of my time to sit down and record it with someone.
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So yeah, if it gets it.
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Well, I tell our clients on the podcast front, like podcasts are uniquely hard from a distribution standpoint because there's no real great discovery mechanism.
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You kind of have to hear about it through other.
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I mean, there's a like YouTube and like YouTube clips has kind of been like the main way people have been doing it.
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I what I tell them is like, I think you should have a podcast, but not because you you're expecting to have this massive podcast.
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It's exactly kind of what you're saying of you think about how many cold emails I get, you think about how many marketing messages I get.
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My podcast app, I subscribe to maybe eight podcasts.
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So if I subscribe to Logan's podcast and I'm piping his ideas into my brain while I'm folding laundry or going for a walk or whatever, that is a very, very privileged position to be in.
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And so to your point, it may be a hundred people, but if it's a specific podcast about a specific topic, there are a hundred of the right people.
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And you have a unique like signal to noise kind of ratio there.
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And then the last thing is like it's also really sneaky cool from a BD front because you can reach out to people cold with a gift instead of asking for something from them.
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Like you're like, hey, I have this platform.
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We talk up to interesting people about interesting stuff.
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I would love to chat with you.
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And if it's if it's Elon Musk or whatever, they're gonna say no.
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But like there are many, many brilliant people out there that have a thousand followers that don't get hit up all the time, but are geniuses in their domain.
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And so it's a gift you get to give them.
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And now you have this really cool thing together, you know?
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So uh I think I think that you're a hundred percent everybody should have one.
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Yeah.
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And I I tell people I I think we helped someone recently, and I think they were surprised by how easy it's become because they're like, I don't have the equipment.
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And I said, I don't know, man, no equipment.
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Just sign up for this platform and talk to people you want to talk to.
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And I was like, then you get to tap into that audience, you know, because they know thousands of people, or maybe not thousands, but they know a ton of people you don't know, and then those people know so it it has this compounding effect that's really cool.
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Yeah, that's awesome.
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Social media, we want I want to backtrack just a little bit because we talked about social media LinkedIn.
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I think people forget that it is supposedly just social media, but for business.
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Yeah.
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But you had a cool thing that happened to you recently on Instagram.
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You and a colleague kind of had a challenge, or this person starts posting on LinkedIn, you'll post on Instagram and you ended up with a couple million views on your content.
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Maybe tell us a little bit about that story and maybe what you learned from that.
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Yeah.
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So this is a young colleague of mine who is learning learning the job, right?
00:17:18.559 --> 00:17:24.799
And um, and LinkedIn, I think, is uniquely intimidating for a younger crowd for a bunch of reasons.
00:17:24.880 --> 00:17:29.440
Like they're more comfortable on camera than they are necessarily writing.
00:17:29.599 --> 00:17:32.960
And it's a business audience, like you said, and so there's some intimidation there.
00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:39.279
And so during one of our one-on-ones, you know, I had been kind of pushing this person to do some more writing on LinkedIn.
00:17:39.440 --> 00:17:47.279
And they saw, they saw my Instagram and I had like 10,000 followers or something like that at the time, but from from years of kind of stuff.
00:17:47.359 --> 00:17:51.119
And I hadn't really been doing anything for several years, really since COVID.
00:17:51.279 --> 00:17:53.759
And they were like, wow, you have 10,000 followers.
00:17:53.920 --> 00:17:54.799
And I was like, Yeah, I don't know.
00:17:54.880 --> 00:17:55.920
I don't, I'm not doing anything with it.
00:17:56.000 --> 00:17:58.319
And they were like, Well, would you make a deal with me?
00:17:58.480 --> 00:18:00.480
Like, I'll start posting on LinkedIn if you start posting on Instagram.
00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:01.440
I was like, All right, sure.
00:18:01.519 --> 00:18:08.799
And I got, I got right up and then immediately recorded a reel, like as I'm just walking through the office and just said, Hey, here it here it is.
00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:09.680
Like it's and went back.
00:18:09.759 --> 00:18:12.559
I was like, see, it's like you just hit publish, it's not a big deal.
00:18:12.799 --> 00:18:18.240
The worst thing that's gonna happen is they're gonna scroll and like they're not gonna 10 years later, they're not gonna be like, you know what?
00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:24.000
I was gonna hire you, but then I remember 10 years ago you posted that LinkedIn post about, you know, that's just how it works.
00:18:24.160 --> 00:18:24.559
So yeah.
00:18:24.720 --> 00:18:31.759
So anyway, just to kind of model the behavior, I started doing a reel each day and very low, like literally on my phone.
00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:40.960
I do, I use the edits app to like get, you know, make give myself a tan and like do add captions, and that's literally it, you know, like very low production value.
00:18:41.119 --> 00:18:44.079
And we're, I don't know, maybe 45 days into that experiment.
00:18:44.319 --> 00:18:50.160
And I'm approaching like 40,000 followers now and three million or so kind of views.
00:18:50.240 --> 00:18:57.039
And and then I I reposted them on TikTok, no changes from a new account, and that one's approaching 10,000 followers.
00:18:57.119 --> 00:18:58.079
Like, and it's just wild.
00:18:58.240 --> 00:19:01.039
And so I was like, I was like, well, why is this happening?
00:19:01.359 --> 00:19:12.240
And I think it's a response to the only theory I have, because I've I I posted stuff on their same kind of setup and was not did not get anywhere near the same amount of traction.
00:19:12.319 --> 00:19:15.039
And I think it's a response to AI.
00:19:15.200 --> 00:19:27.039
I think that people are sort of they can't tell what's real anymore, and they don't like it's like a reaction to kind of the highly polished sort of stuff, and they're resonating with just like this clearly is not AI, you know.
00:19:27.119 --> 00:19:41.440
Like I, I I misspeak and I people complain sometimes that like I have a dry mouth or whatever, and I have to clear my throat and I just uh or I say um a bunch, and I'm just like, well, you know, I I it's uh that's not I yeah.
00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:44.079
So I that's the only conclusion I can really come to.
00:19:44.319 --> 00:19:46.400
It has it has been interesting though.
00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:48.559
I'm not asking for anything from anybody.
00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:50.400
There's no calls to action in any of it.
00:19:50.559 --> 00:19:57.920
And I am getting DMs from some pretty like I have a I have a call with the chief chief legal officer next week uh of a firm.
00:19:58.079 --> 00:20:08.960
I have a call today, later today, with a branding firm that's owned by a larger uh like a like a WPP kind of thing, a conversation back and forth with like an agent for NHL players.
00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:16.079
Like, so it's been interesting, like stuff has actually been showing up kind of in the in my DMs there, but that wasn't really why I was doing it.
00:20:16.160 --> 00:20:18.160
I was mainly doing it to get my my colleague to post.
00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:20.559
But now I feel like I'm stuck.
00:20:20.640 --> 00:20:23.119
I'm on that content treadmill and I have to keep doing it.
00:20:23.279 --> 00:20:26.319
But no, it's super cool, man.
00:20:26.400 --> 00:20:43.359
And I think that gosh, I mean, we you know, we we I never really say that we're constantly trying to convince our clients to do certain things, but I think everything you just hit on is because we'll say, hey, we want to do this video because we have a videographer on staff.
00:20:43.440 --> 00:20:59.279
We I mean we can produce really sharp social content, but damn it, if the video the selfie video that the person sent us, you know, while they were walking from whatever to their truck isn't the best performing piece of content.
00:20:59.440 --> 00:21:02.559
And then the one that we just spent four hours editing.
00:21:02.720 --> 00:21:04.079
So I think that you're right.
00:21:04.240 --> 00:21:09.119
I think that there is a craving for that authenticity.
00:21:09.279 --> 00:21:13.599
There's a craving for maybe just people being a little bit vulnerable.
00:21:13.839 --> 00:21:20.799
Yeah, I think that not selling is another big one where you're not constantly beating people over the head with your service.
00:21:21.039 --> 00:21:21.359
Yeah.
00:21:21.519 --> 00:21:22.400
We really don't do that.
00:21:22.480 --> 00:21:32.000
I mean, at Hatchmark, the really whenever we're doing any email or we're doing content of any kind, really, it's mostly just education focused.
00:21:32.160 --> 00:21:34.799
You know, we'll always say just like give it away, you know.
00:21:35.599 --> 00:21:40.000
Thing that we usually like to tell people is we'll literally tell you exactly how to do what we do.
00:21:40.319 --> 00:21:40.799
Exactly.
00:21:41.039 --> 00:21:47.920
Just with the with the I'm I feel confident knowing that most people aren't going to because it's hard and it takes a lot of time.
00:21:48.240 --> 00:21:49.920
But I'm not gonna gatekeep that.
00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:52.880
If you want to learn how to do it, I'll tell you exactly how to do it.
00:21:53.039 --> 00:21:56.960
I know you won't probably I mean if what, ten percent of people are gonna go try it.
00:21:57.119 --> 00:21:57.440
Yeah.
00:21:57.680 --> 00:21:59.440
Because they're busy doing other stuff, right?
00:21:59.519 --> 00:22:04.559
So I think that yeah, I think that's the type of content that's connecting right now.
00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:11.359
Um, and it's really cool that out of that little challenge, you've now got another job that you have to keep going.
00:22:11.680 --> 00:22:12.400
Exactly, exactly.
00:22:13.440 --> 00:22:17.680
Luckily, it's the low effort content, but it is it is pretty low, it is pretty low effort.
00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:20.799
And I I'm I'm lucky in that I have years of LinkedIn stuff.
00:22:20.880 --> 00:22:23.359
So like if I'm stuck on it, I I don't have an idea for that day.
00:22:23.440 --> 00:22:26.000
I just scroll through my LinkedIn feed and I'm like, oh yeah, that's a good one.
00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:27.839
And then I just riff on that.
00:22:28.000 --> 00:22:32.559
But no, I and I I think I'm really lucky.
00:22:32.799 --> 00:22:44.160
I didn't I didn't plan it this way, but it's turned out that I think that what you just talked about about giving away your secrets and being just authentic and being, you know, being even willing to be a little bit vulnerable and all those kinds of things.
00:22:44.319 --> 00:22:47.920
Like, I think those are uniquely good for consulting.
00:22:48.079 --> 00:22:53.119
You know, like every everything that we do, we basically say like professional services is a trust-based sale.
00:22:53.200 --> 00:22:57.440
And so there's a reason why referral is the primary way that most firms generate business.
00:22:57.680 --> 00:23:03.200
And so our goal is just to approximate that as closely as possible with our marketing and business development.
00:23:03.279 --> 00:23:19.359
And it lends itself to being charming and winsome and not being being hard, hard sell, pushing for the close, learning all these sort of like sales tactics around overcoming, you know, like objections and kind of like feeling like a car salesman.
00:23:19.440 --> 00:23:21.279
It just lends itself to like, I'm just gonna help you.
00:23:21.440 --> 00:23:27.920
And we we always say like treat clients like clients before they're clients, and just like I'm gonna treat you the way I treat any other client.
00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:33.599
And if we have 30 minutes on a call together, I'm gonna tell like you just said, I'm gonna tell you exactly what I would do.
00:23:33.839 --> 00:23:48.640
And I trust that if I put enough of that out there with consistency, and every day I try to help people, either through LinkedIn or now on Instagram or on a phone call, good things will happen and I will be able to build a viable business from it.
00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:54.319
And then it just maps to how I want to show up in the world and how I want to sell.
00:23:54.480 --> 00:24:01.119
And so I don't have to resort to desperate tactics, you know, because I'm just doing this with consistency.
00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:05.920
Yeah, I always think about how do I want to be perceived in a room that I'm not in, right?
00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:11.279
Whenever people are talking about me or they're talking about our agency, what's the narrative, right?
00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:12.960
And um, I think you're right.
00:24:13.039 --> 00:24:15.200
I think that it's just how you want to be perceived in the world.
00:24:15.359 --> 00:24:17.440
We had a client, well, not a client, actually.
00:24:17.519 --> 00:24:27.039
That's the whole point of me bringing up this point is we had a meeting with someone, super cool guy, great business, but we just weren't in the budget, you know, and that happens.
00:24:27.359 --> 00:24:28.000
You know what I mean?
00:24:28.079 --> 00:24:29.279
There was no other reason.
00:24:29.359 --> 00:24:32.240
I think we probably would have worked together if it was in the budget.
00:24:32.400 --> 00:24:35.920
But even though he basically said, you know, oh, we're not gonna be able to work together, it's fine.
00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:36.960
It's like that's cool.
00:24:37.119 --> 00:24:48.000
We still, whenever we had a we had a night where we brought in a bunch of college students and a bunch of local businesses in the area that were hiring and just let them shop around, you know what I mean?
00:24:48.079 --> 00:24:57.519
And it's great because it's like here are all these people, you have fish in a barrel, yeah, and you get to just go interview based, like speed interview with all of these great businesses, and it was a great success.
00:24:57.680 --> 00:25:00.720
I think people got hired that night, but we invited him.
00:25:00.799 --> 00:25:02.240
I was like, Oh, this would be perfect.
00:25:02.319 --> 00:25:10.160
You're looking for someone to do your social media, and I feel like budget-wise, like it'd be great to get like a really sharp college student.
00:25:10.319 --> 00:25:13.200
And I invited him in, and I remember he pulled me aside.
00:25:13.279 --> 00:25:18.720
He's like, Hey, like we didn't even work together, and you thought to invite me to this event, that's so cool, you know.
00:25:18.799 --> 00:25:20.799
And I said, Yeah, I was like, I liked you.
00:25:20.960 --> 00:25:25.440
Yeah, just because we're not working together doesn't mean that I don't care about your business and stuff.
00:25:25.599 --> 00:25:30.640
But he said, you know, yeah, if anyone ever asks me anything in this town, I'm gonna send them your way.
00:25:30.880 --> 00:25:43.440
So what's the you know, and I don't know if that's happened yet, but still, if you do that more and more, if you keep doing this, eventually that that goodwill or and it's not even self-serving, I'm not doing it because I think I'm gonna get something out of it.
00:25:43.519 --> 00:25:45.759
I think you won't keep it up, eventually come.
00:25:45.920 --> 00:25:46.160
Yeah.
00:25:46.319 --> 00:25:46.559
Yeah.
00:25:46.640 --> 00:25:49.440
If you're keeping track of like favor zod, exactly 100%.
00:25:49.680 --> 00:25:51.680
It's like current, it's current karmic almost.
00:25:51.920 --> 00:25:57.200
That's uh that's uh on the business development front, that's how we I try to help our clients throw up.
00:25:57.279 --> 00:26:01.119
So like they are getting I I'm sure you you guys are getting this too, like every day.
00:26:01.279 --> 00:26:04.240
Hey, would you like 10 to 15 appointments on autopilot or whatever?
00:26:04.400 --> 00:26:16.960
And the the playbook is I go and build a lead list, I enrich it on a tool like clay or whatever, I buy a domain that's like your domain, but not, and I warm it up so that it doesn't get blacklisted, which I think should tell you everything you need to know about this strategy.
00:26:17.119 --> 00:26:19.279
And then I just spam the hell out of people.
00:26:19.359 --> 00:26:22.640
And I'm just like, whatever that is, that is not a recipe for building trust.
00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:27.519
And I get that you're like, hey, it's a numbers game, but it's like it's desperate.
00:26:27.599 --> 00:26:34.160
It's like I I need to fill the file, like we're not the I tell people we are not the firm to hire if you need to solve your pipeline problem in 30 days.
00:26:34.400 --> 00:26:43.599
Like, we're the firm if you want to show up in a way that's charming and winsome, and if you assume that you're gonna be in business a year from now and you don't want to have a pipeline problem in 12 months.
00:26:43.759 --> 00:26:45.200
Like we're we're we're that firm.
00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:48.000
And so it's just like take a longer term time horizon.
00:26:48.079 --> 00:26:51.920
Like these people, your career is long, like your company is long.
00:26:52.000 --> 00:27:00.880
And like this person that you serve today will get promoted, will join on your job, will be asked over coffee with somebody and they're like, oh, you know who you should talk to.
00:27:01.039 --> 00:27:04.319
Like you should talk to those guys, hatchmark over there, they do really cool work or whatever.
00:27:04.400 --> 00:27:15.119
And it's like, like you just said, it's just like put, put a bunch of good stuff out on the world and just serve people and it will and not keep track of favors owed because if you do, you won't keep it up.
00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:19.200
And just trust in the again, trust in the aggregate and good things will happen.
00:27:19.279 --> 00:27:20.799
So yeah, a hundred percent agree.
00:27:20.960 --> 00:27:21.279
Yeah.
00:27:21.440 --> 00:27:28.880
Yeah, if you put enough social capital out there, I feel like it eventually finds its way back to you in one way or another.
00:27:29.119 --> 00:27:33.519
And I think that you you brought up the referral because we're in the service business too.
00:27:33.680 --> 00:27:48.880
That's where I mean, I I don't know what the percentage is, but I'm sure if I figured if I sat down and did the numbers one day, it'd be probably 90% referral coming in, you know, very few people, and it's not for lack of trying just happen upon us.
00:27:49.039 --> 00:27:52.640
It's from a it's from at least one removed connection, right?
00:27:52.880 --> 00:28:01.920
So that right there just goes to show how important it is to build as many connections as you can so that you can get as many referrals as you can, right?
00:28:02.240 --> 00:28:03.519
Yep, a hundred percent.
00:28:03.759 --> 00:28:07.599
What do you do whenever someone pushes back, maybe?
00:28:07.680 --> 00:28:13.839
Because we've talked about how you've been successful on Instagram with uh maybe a little less polish, right?
00:28:13.920 --> 00:28:15.119
Um, on the content.
00:28:15.200 --> 00:28:23.839
And you talked about it on LinkedIn, how the content it almost feels like the best stuff is something that someone did between meetings just because they had a thought.
00:28:24.079 --> 00:28:34.000
What is your I think you made a joke one time on LinkedIn that I interacted with where it's like, hey, sometimes I almost want to throw a typo in there just because, you know.
00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:51.920
Um not suggesting that anyone does that, but what do you how what's your sell on saying, hey, just you know, consistency and authenticity is going to be better than making sure that you have you you pencil lipped it to death and now there's no soul left in it?
00:28:52.240 --> 00:29:03.519
Yeah, I what I'd usually tell clients is like, listen, if you have the budget to do like super high production quality and you have the time to dedicate to doing it, then by all means do it.
00:29:03.599 --> 00:29:08.400
Like, this is not an argument against like doing really polished stuff necessarily.
00:29:08.640 --> 00:29:14.000
What I have found though is like, if you're doing it, like why, why are you doing that?
00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:17.839
Are you doing it because you think it will outperform?
00:29:18.640 --> 00:29:24.880
I have found that the posts that take off are almost never the posts that I think are going to be the ones that take off.
00:29:25.279 --> 00:29:31.119
And I have also found that the posts that take off are not necessarily the ones that directly lead to clients.
00:29:31.279 --> 00:29:34.960
Now, there may be, you know, a multi-touch thing of like, that's how they first find me.
00:29:35.039 --> 00:29:38.400
And so you could talk about like top of funnel, mid-funnel, bottom funnel, or whatever.
00:29:38.720 --> 00:29:54.319
But I have found that me trying to reverse engineer it, and again, it will lend itself to me becoming a cartoon and it will represent friction such that I don't publish as often.
00:29:54.480 --> 00:29:59.359
And so I just care about did I show up today and serve people?
00:29:59.440 --> 00:30:04.000
And and I don't do it every single day of the week, but I do it, you know, I shoot for three to four times a week.
00:30:04.079 --> 00:30:06.720
I try to get our clients to do it at least twice a week if they can.
00:30:06.880 --> 00:30:10.319
Some of them, you know, it's it's it's it's a battle.
00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:16.240
But yeah, I just I I just again believe in the aggregate and my little face and whatever.
00:30:16.400 --> 00:30:21.039
And I'm not smart enough to know which ones are gonna go quote unquote viral.
00:30:21.200 --> 00:30:26.960
So if that is my goal, which it isn't, but even if it were my goal, my content follows a power law.
00:30:27.119 --> 00:30:31.519
Like I did an anal, I did an analysis of all of our clients and myself.
00:30:31.759 --> 00:30:32.799
I did it pretty recently.
00:30:32.880 --> 00:30:33.839
I can pull up.
00:30:34.240 --> 00:30:42.720
So, like just for me, for example, from the last two years, so like since January of 2020 or of January of 2025.
00:30:42.880 --> 00:30:48.160
So I've published probably, I don't know how many are in here, 240 or so posts.
00:30:48.880 --> 00:30:52.240
The number one post is 28% of my impression total.
00:30:52.319 --> 00:30:53.680
The top three are 47%.
00:30:54.960 --> 00:30:58.079
So, like, and I it's just a power law, like it just is.
00:30:58.160 --> 00:30:59.200
And I just don't know.
00:30:59.599 --> 00:31:06.000
And there are some things that I noticed in there, like the top ones tend to be stories or like you said, vulnerability, like confessions.
00:31:07.440 --> 00:31:19.920
But there's an inverse correlation between reach and engagement, as defined by you know, comments, likes, reposts, and and saves, which LinkedIn now exposes to you.
00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:23.839
And I think I think of say, like I again, this is just me.
00:31:24.319 --> 00:31:30.160
As a consultant, I tend to believe that the proxy for me delivering value to people is did they save it?
00:31:30.240 --> 00:31:31.680
Do they want to go back and look at it later?
00:31:31.839 --> 00:31:39.039
So I actually, if there was a metric I pay attention to, it's saves, which lends itself to really technical or detailed or whatever.
00:31:39.119 --> 00:31:41.119
It's not the vir the viral thing almost ever.
00:31:41.279 --> 00:31:46.319
Um, and so, but yeah, like my my point was just like I'm not smart enough to deconstruct it.
00:31:46.640 --> 00:31:53.920
And I can tell you that the ones that are the top posts were some of the ones that took the least amount of time to write.
00:31:54.880 --> 00:31:56.640
So, you know, I don't know.
00:31:56.880 --> 00:31:57.200
Yeah.
00:31:57.440 --> 00:32:07.440
No, I think that, and I'm not saying that this isn't advice per se, but I think my best LinkedIn post right now is a POV of my shopping cart inside Costco.
00:32:07.759 --> 00:32:08.559
Um I love it.
00:32:08.720 --> 00:32:09.359
So I love it.
00:32:09.599 --> 00:32:13.200
I think that there, because I just said there's something about this place, I can't leave it.
00:32:13.279 --> 00:32:15.599
Like once I'm in, I just I want to go back again.
00:32:15.839 --> 00:32:22.799
And I think that there was something, it had nothing to do with my job, and it had nothing to I wasn't, I was just trying to be funny, I think.
00:32:22.960 --> 00:32:30.160
But again, I think that that took off because it it resonated with people in some way, because right now Costco's hot.
00:32:30.319 --> 00:32:35.119
A lot of people like Costco, and it was, I guess, relatable in some way.
00:32:35.359 --> 00:32:37.200
So people engaged with it.
00:32:37.279 --> 00:32:43.359
And I and like I said, I don't know the value of that post is probably nothing, you know what I mean?
00:32:43.440 --> 00:32:48.400
Like I got a ton of connections from really strange people off of it who are trying to sell me something.
00:32:48.720 --> 00:32:56.720
But at the same time, I think that I mean, I think it took me a couple of minutes to just put it on there and it took off.
00:32:56.880 --> 00:33:12.480
And I think that if you if you do enough and you do it often enough, again, like you said, or you alluded to it earlier, that remove that barrier to entry if you can, and just start doing the thing that you want to be doing more of in kind of don't.
00:33:12.559 --> 00:33:16.720
I was in the Navy and they always say, Don't nuke it, you know, don't overthink it, right?
00:33:16.799 --> 00:33:18.799
Like just start start doing something.
00:33:18.880 --> 00:33:22.880
And if and even if you can't afford the Madisons of the world, you can do this stuff too.
00:33:23.039 --> 00:33:23.920
Just do it yourself, yeah.
00:33:24.079 --> 00:33:25.759
And you have time to find your voice and all that.
00:33:25.920 --> 00:33:44.880
I think the other thing around the Costco thing is like, and I have no, I have no quantitative evidence to prove this, but I would imagine that the downstream impact of a post like that for you is that, you know, again, people buy from people, and I think people like to buy from people that they like.
00:33:45.039 --> 00:33:53.839
And so I think that part of part of why I think people hire our firm is that they like the way that we show up in the world.
00:33:53.920 --> 00:34:11.840
And when they pick up the phone with us and they have a conversation, there is something about like they feel like they already sort of know me a little bit, and what I, you know, kind of, and there's very the the the odd the sort of like authenticity piece of it is like I try very hard to be the same person no matter what room I'm in.
00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:16.079
And and I'm sure our I have blind spots and I'm flawed in many, many ways.
00:34:16.320 --> 00:34:18.079
But I think that that resonates with people.
00:34:18.159 --> 00:34:24.800
And so, like, yes, I try to be like on message, relatively speaking, for maybe 80% of it.
00:34:24.880 --> 00:34:42.159
But like, if I have something on my heart, like sometimes I'll write about like my anniversary with my wife, or what it's like being a dad as they're getting ready to transition into like we're starting to think about colleges, and that's gonna be that's that's very bittersweet, or my weaknesses as a manager or whatever.
00:34:42.239 --> 00:34:46.719
Like, I think that I just I give myself broad latitude to kind of write about whatever's on my heart that day.
00:34:46.880 --> 00:34:50.960
And because I think one, again, zero friction.
00:34:51.039 --> 00:34:53.599
If that's what I feel compelled to write about, then I'm gonna write about it.
00:34:53.760 --> 00:34:55.599
I've learned that there's almost no downside.
00:34:55.760 --> 00:35:02.400
Nobody's like, you know, as maybe as long as you're not talking about like politics or religion, like you have you can write about kind of whatever you want.
00:35:02.639 --> 00:35:10.400
And then I actually think it probably does have a very subtle downstream, intangible benefit in terms of building affinity.
00:35:10.480 --> 00:35:13.280
Uh so yeah, I agree with all of that.
00:35:13.360 --> 00:35:21.199
And I think that as long as it's coming from an authentic place and people can sense that no matter what you're posting, you're right.
00:35:21.360 --> 00:35:26.719
I think people we say this all the time, and we didn't coin it obviously, but people do business with people they like.
00:35:26.880 --> 00:35:28.159
I think it's that simple.
00:35:28.400 --> 00:35:36.559
And I think that you can you can sort of give people more reasons to like you if you're consistently doing stuff like that.
00:35:36.719 --> 00:35:38.559
Because and Pensacola is a small town.
00:35:38.639 --> 00:35:46.719
We're lucky that we get to kind of people know us just by pure sheer volume in types of agencies in our town.
00:35:46.960 --> 00:35:54.400
But I remember whenever I sort of first started making myself a little bit more visible in the agency, people I didn't know knew me.
00:35:54.480 --> 00:35:57.679
And I think that was the first time in my life where I had experienced that.
00:35:57.920 --> 00:35:58.239
Yeah.
00:35:58.400 --> 00:36:05.519
I reached out to someone recently who connected with me at a local place and they said, Oh, we were um, me and this other person, we were just talking about you.
00:36:05.599 --> 00:36:08.239
And I swear to you, I've never met either one of these people.
00:36:08.480 --> 00:36:08.880
Wow.
00:36:09.119 --> 00:36:22.320
But it was it was strange to me, and I guess that it's not so strange whenever I really dial it back and think about, yeah, my I'm kind of becoming like not becoming, but like I've I've my face is on the the business quite a bit now.
00:36:22.559 --> 00:36:43.280
So it was just it was a weird moment, honestly, but also just kind of a a reaffirmation, if you will, that hey, uh I'm I'm starting to, or we as an agency are starting to kind of permeate these layers throughout, at least locally, but you know, that that has a compounding effect as well.
00:36:43.679 --> 00:36:49.039
Yeah, I also encourage clients like like like this is a and and their team.
00:36:49.119 --> 00:36:58.880
So like when they're when they're when if the client wants them to do it and the team has uh resistance, I tell them like this is a your personal profile is a career asset.
00:36:59.039 --> 00:37:02.239
Like this is something that will pay dividends for you for the rest of your life.
00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:06.000
And obviously, my hope is that you spend the rest of your life at this firm.
00:37:06.159 --> 00:37:13.519
But like if that isn't the case, I'm willing to bet that your profile will have a material role in you finding your next thing.
00:37:13.599 --> 00:37:20.880
And I bet that the kinds of opportunities you will get will dwarf what you would have gotten otherwise if you were less, less visible.
00:37:21.119 --> 00:37:34.880
Like almost every great thing that, like the Kellogg opportunity, almost every speaking opportunity I've ever had, that I mean, like this, like it's it's it's only because of putting my ideas out there and just you know, trusting that it's gonna be interesting to somebody.
00:37:35.119 --> 00:37:41.199
And when the owner has resistance and they're like, well, what if I do this and then the employee gets famous and then they leave?
00:37:41.440 --> 00:37:44.480
It's the whole thing of like, well, what if you don't and they stay?
00:37:44.719 --> 00:37:47.920
Yeah, it's like like, you know, so yeah.
00:37:48.079 --> 00:37:56.239
I think it's I think it's so cool that they that one that you are that you know you and your partners are like cool with it, and two, that you were willing to kind of lean into it.
00:37:56.400 --> 00:38:02.480
And it's it's really neat to kind of and there's a part of that, like I I struggle with pride.
00:38:02.800 --> 00:38:15.360
And I to the point where I there were periods earlier in my life where I would do this and then I would retreat because I felt I felt like I was being narcissistic or I felt like a charlatan or whatever.
00:38:15.679 --> 00:38:26.239
And I was really lucky in that people who I wasn't aware were that were paying attention were paying attention, and they were people who I admired and they were like, Hey, I noticed you stopped posting.
00:38:26.480 --> 00:38:30.239
You need to do, you need like, like you help people when you do this.
00:38:30.400 --> 00:38:31.760
Like you should keep doing it.
00:38:31.920 --> 00:38:37.199
And then I was like, the whole thing about like the moral ethical obligation of my clients, like that came from a mentor of mine.
00:38:37.280 --> 00:38:41.199
He was like, Man, like you, I don't care if your other two partners don't do it, like you have to do it.
00:38:41.280 --> 00:38:44.000
Like somebody has to you owe it to your team.
00:38:44.159 --> 00:38:52.559
And so I was like, All right, that that kind of that was like the thing that pushed me over the edge of like, all right, I'm gonna make this a material and consistent kind of part of how I show up.
00:38:52.800 --> 00:39:04.880
So yeah, I was actually standing outside a food truck, I think, of all of all places, and another agency owner in town kind of bumped into me and she said, I love what you're doing, keep doing it.
00:39:05.039 --> 00:39:06.000
And so cool.
00:39:06.239 --> 00:39:08.960
I was like, Yeah, like I I think I do need to keep doing that.
00:39:09.119 --> 00:39:11.920
Because at the time I was a little bit lukewarm on it, as you said.
00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:15.920
Yeah, I just thought to myself, I don't, this isn't really me.
00:39:16.079 --> 00:39:17.519
I'm I'm a bit of an introvert.
00:39:17.599 --> 00:39:24.400
I'm much more comfortable in a dark room by myself than I am in front of any camera or microphone, to be quite honest.
00:39:24.719 --> 00:39:30.239
But I felt, you know, as if I do, I owe it to the team I'm on, right?
00:39:30.400 --> 00:39:34.079
At this point to continue to down this path, if it's working.
00:39:34.400 --> 00:39:35.360
Yeah, I agree.
00:39:35.519 --> 00:39:36.960
I 100% agree.
00:39:37.440 --> 00:39:45.039
So I think that, you know, sometimes I turn on a podcast and I get busy and I start talking, and maybe I've tuned in, maybe I haven't.
00:39:45.199 --> 00:40:00.239
Obviously, we've been having a great conversation, but if someone had to say, have one takeaway from this in your estimation, what would you give if someone is in professional services, the B2B space, what should they start doing today?
00:40:00.320 --> 00:40:02.000
Because it does seem like a beast, right?
00:40:02.079 --> 00:40:07.039
Sometimes to start good habits, especially professional ones.
00:40:07.519 --> 00:40:13.840
What's it, what's an easy one-step guide to getting it up getting it fired up?
00:40:14.159 --> 00:40:19.360
I think the easiest way to start is there's questions I use to kind of jog people.
00:40:19.440 --> 00:40:22.239
And so, like, I give I'll give you a couple of questions that might help.
00:40:22.400 --> 00:40:35.360
So one is we already talked about it, which is like, what have what has a client or a potential client or even an internal team member asked you about in the last week that you that you think other that you know was interesting?
00:40:35.519 --> 00:40:38.719
Because I'm willing to bet there are other people that will have that question.
00:40:38.960 --> 00:40:47.920
An alternative framing on that is like, what do you, what would the you of three years ago or five years ago wish that they knew that you now know?
00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:49.280
So that's another framing.
00:40:49.519 --> 00:40:56.880
When it's talking about what the work, we talk a lot about this idea like a unified theory, which you've hasn't been kind of woven throughout this.
00:40:57.039 --> 00:41:00.559
You I think you can kind of get the gist of ours, but it's it's a trust-based sale.
00:41:00.719 --> 00:41:07.280
We think that you do that by getting really clear in who you serve, showing up consistently with your best thinking, and creating respectful ways for people to raise hands when they're ready.
00:41:07.519 --> 00:41:13.519
If you were to give a talk tomorrow, unprompted, about the work that you do, what would the outline of that talk be?
00:41:13.679 --> 00:41:16.880
So, like those are just like some thought starters that can get people going.
00:41:17.039 --> 00:41:22.880
And then I think the last thing is like just hit publish, like turn off the part of your brain that's like, but what will people think?
00:41:23.039 --> 00:41:26.239
Because the answer is they're not thinking about you, they're thinking about themselves.
00:41:26.400 --> 00:41:33.360
And they're the worst cases, worst thing is gonna happen is they just keep scrolling, and the best thing that's gonna happen is they're gonna be like, huh, that's interesting.
00:41:33.519 --> 00:41:36.480
And then now you've made a little trust deposit in that person's mind.
00:41:36.639 --> 00:41:38.880
So I think that's all great advice.
00:41:39.039 --> 00:41:46.880
I think that yeah, I just tell people kind of the Nike, just do it and you know, just run out there and try it.
00:41:46.960 --> 00:41:49.599
And like you said, the worst thing that happens is it flops.
00:41:49.920 --> 00:41:59.119
And I think that I'll remind people of the thing that you said earlier is trust in the aggregate, even if you don't have that, because I think people struggle with that, right?
00:41:59.280 --> 00:42:00.960
They post something, it gets like two likes.
00:42:01.119 --> 00:42:03.920
One of it's for the person sitting next to them in the office, right?
00:42:04.000 --> 00:42:07.760
And it's like this is a waste of time, you know, but it's totally not.
00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:13.599
And don't worry about the metrics because if you do, you'll stop, you'll get discouraged so easily.
00:42:13.840 --> 00:42:17.440
And none of our none of my stuff really blows up, you know.
00:42:17.519 --> 00:42:26.400
And I think that viral virality has become this thing that people are so obsessed with, and it's like, what's the value of that virality, anyways?
00:42:26.480 --> 00:42:39.360
Even if you got it, would it be worth you know, 10 likes from your target audience who people who actually care about you and want to work with you, or hundreds of thousands of people who they don't even know you and they really don't care?
00:42:39.519 --> 00:42:42.960
So yeah, that's my takeaway, honestly, with this topic.
00:42:43.280 --> 00:42:45.679
Well, and when someone, you know, because some of our clients do.
00:42:45.760 --> 00:42:47.840
There's still they have a hundred, they have a hundred connections.
00:42:47.920 --> 00:42:53.519
And so when something doesn't quote unquote go viral, I tell them, like, well, what what did you think was going to happen?
00:42:53.679 --> 00:42:58.400
You have a hundred contacts, only a subset of which are probably in your ICP.
00:42:58.639 --> 00:43:02.079
The algorithm only shows your post to a percentage of your contacts.
00:43:02.159 --> 00:43:06.320
And so, like, but that one person that liked it, go look at who that one person is.
00:43:06.400 --> 00:43:07.679
Did they fit your ICP?
00:43:08.079 --> 00:43:11.440
Reach out to them and just say, Hey, so glad that you connected with the post.
00:43:11.760 --> 00:43:14.639
Would love to buy you a cup of coffee and just learn about your world, you know?
00:43:14.800 --> 00:43:24.079
Like, very, very like, and I think especially for like the introverts of us, like you don't want to be in a room with a thousand people.
00:43:24.159 --> 00:43:27.360
Like the one that one person that connected with you is a person.
00:43:27.519 --> 00:43:31.199
They're a real person that you can build now build a relationship with.
00:43:31.280 --> 00:43:34.000
They now know who you are, and that's a place to start from.
00:43:34.079 --> 00:43:36.079
Like, I have whatever followers I have.
00:43:36.239 --> 00:43:38.639
I've been doing this for 10 years.
00:43:38.800 --> 00:43:40.559
Like, I didn't always have that, you know?
00:43:40.639 --> 00:43:41.760
Like, I don't know.
00:43:41.920 --> 00:43:43.360
So start where you are.
00:43:43.599 --> 00:43:44.079
Yeah.
00:43:44.400 --> 00:43:45.119
Totally agree.
00:43:45.280 --> 00:43:47.360
Well, Sean, um, where can people find you?
00:43:47.519 --> 00:43:54.159
Because uh, if anyone's listening, I'm sure they would love to connect with you because you have so many great insights and he does post all the time.
00:43:54.239 --> 00:43:55.519
So you're definitely gonna want to see it.
00:43:56.400 --> 00:43:59.039
On LinkedIn, and now on Instagram.
00:43:59.199 --> 00:44:03.119
So yeah, in uh LinkedIn is just Sean Johnson and look for the little fire emoji.
00:44:03.199 --> 00:44:05.679
And then uh Instagram is intentionally.
00:44:06.320 --> 00:44:10.639
And uh yeah, and if you want to if you want to learn more about medicine, it's firemedicine.com.
00:44:11.920 --> 00:44:14.079
Well, Sean, thanks again for coming on.
00:44:14.159 --> 00:44:16.880
This is awesome, great chat, love the insights, man.
00:44:17.199 --> 00:44:17.599
Yeah, man.
00:44:17.840 --> 00:44:19.679
Kindred spirits, it's uh it's this was a blast.
00:44:19.840 --> 00:44:20.639
Really appreciate it.
00:44:20.880 --> 00:44:21.280
Awesome.
00:44:21.360 --> 00:44:24.559
Yeah, and if y'all are listening and you know someone who needs to hear this, please share it with them.
00:44:24.639 --> 00:44:25.760
Please just pass it around.
00:44:26.159 --> 00:44:30.719
Even if you just know someone or you yourself got this stuff, just go out there and start posting, man.
00:44:31.119 --> 00:44:34.480
And um we'll see y'all in the next episode later.