speaker-0: Welcome to Plugged In, a podcast about how real work actually gets done. I'm your host Barry. And from the team here at Plugable, we're here to explore the intersection of productivity, decision-making, and the reality of modern work. Each episode, we'll sit down for honest conversations with people who think deeply about their craft to get a real world perspective on what works, what doesn't, and most importantly, the why. We're glad you're here. Let's talk about today's guest. Today, I'm talking to Jay Shreddelson. He's the founder of SubjectLine.com. host of the Do This Not That podcast and who many refer to as simply the email guy. Now Jay, he runs a massive marketing agency. He hosts wild virtual events online, but somehow he still manages to show up everywhere. So the obvious question I had for Jay is how do you actually get it all done? In this episode of Plugged In, we talk about the productivity habits that keep him moving, why he switched to 15 minute meetings, why best practices are always garbage, and why simple consistency will be talent almost every time. Let's dive in. Welcome Jay, thanks for joining me today. We're going be chatting about someone such as yourself, always busy, always on the go, defines productivity, stays productive when you're on the go, whether it be in your office, at a conference, or possibly in the back of a driverless Waymo. But before we dive into that, tell me a little bit about yourself. How did Jay become Jay?
speaker-1: Yeah, first of all, fired up to be here. How did I become me? That's a good question. So I've had a marketing agency forever. Started smaller, got bigger, great. And then when COVID hit, all the marketing budgets were kind of disappearing. And so I freaked out. I said, oh no, I'm going to go out of business. I had a bunch of people at work for me. I didn't want to let them go. I said, how am going to stay in business? I said, well, maybe if I meet more people, I will get more business. So that was my idea. So at that time during COVID, I launched a giant free virtual conference with the idea I'll meet a boatload of people. I thought virtual conferences were stained, that they were done wrong. So we decided to make it fun, make it crazy. And we did that. And beyond meeting a bunch of people and my agency staying alive, it led me down this path of doing more big virtual events and podcasts and webinars, because it was really an appetite for that. So today I still have my agency. I also have a media business where we're doing all this stuff. Yeah, I am losing my mind. got, you know, two teenage kids and, you know, no two days are the same and I have no idea what's going on.
speaker-0: Awesome. Yeah, I attended the most recent guru conference. Amazing stuff how you guys put that all together and do that virtually. I too was of the opinion, virtual conferences were basically just a glorified webinar, right? But I can happily say that I was converted after the first guru conference I attended last year. This year was definitely a step up.
speaker-1: Thank you, I appreciate it. It's amazing to hear that. I'd say that for any marketing channel, any channel for anything, is that, oh, something is old school, it's garbage, it's whatever. It's really not. Everything, you could do a new spin on anything, and that's a lesson that I took from this whole thing, that you could reimagine anything and just make it cool.
speaker-0: So that's actually a perfect segue to our first question here is what's the, obviously email marketing is kind of one of the things, you're the email guy, right? So what's the biggest misconception in 2025 heading into 2026 that people still have about email?
speaker-1: Well, email, your email database, I don't care what business you're in, consumer, B2B, nonprofit, doesn't matter, your email database is the most important asset in your company, and more so than ever, and the reason being is there's no other methodology, no other channel where at any moment you can communicate with your entire audience of customers or prospects or whomever at one time. If you try to do it on search, you can't. You got to pay a boatload of money, you won't get all the search, right? And you can't even play that game with AI, it's like impossible to figure out. You can't do it with TV, you can't do it with radio, you can't do it with paid social ads. The only channel for almost no money that you could do that with is email. So people doubling down and trying to grow their email database so they have the ability to communicate via email is critical and email's not going anywhere. So that's why I'm a big believer in people focusing on their email marketing in general.
speaker-0: Awesome. So subjectline.com, let's talk about that for a minute. What kind of drew you to that specific area of email to kind of lean into, I guess you could say.
speaker-1: Subjectline.com is an interesting thing because in general it gives me cache. Like, oh, you founded subjectline.com, you must know a lot about email, which is always funny to me because the way that that was born was that I would go in with my marketing agency, I would go into these pitches and I would say, I had like a 50 slide page slide deck and doing all this stuff, email, direct mail, search engine marketing, website design, all this garbage. And I would walk out of these meetings one after another and I would get no business whatsoever. And the reason I would get no business was it was just a slop of all this stuff. And after one of the meetings, this guy said to me, you know, if you had just focused on email, maybe you would have gotten the business and then you could have gotten our other business too. And it was a crystal, it was like this light bulb thing for me and said, you know, I need to be known for something. I think this is case for any business. When you're not in the room, what are they saying about you? You know, like Plugable for example, ⁓ I think about the plugs I need or a special monitor or whatever. I know exactly what you all are selling because you're known for that thing. If you're not known for something, you're known for nothing. After that guy said to me, hey, you should have focused on email. That night, 15 years ago now, I went on my couch, I went on Network Solutions or GoDaddy and I bought the domain for 500 bucks, subjectline.com, and I threw up a free tool where people can go to this site, check their subject line, tell them if it's good or bad, and we've never charged a dollar for it. I don't make a single dollar from subjectline.com, but it gives us this cache where we get a lot of inbound interest because we're now known for something. And the irony is in my overall business, email's like maybe 35 % of my revenue. But if you ask anybody out there about my business, like, they do email. So it's like this entree point in. It's like a Trojan horse in. And I think that's good for any business out
speaker-0: Amazing. Okay, before we pivot into some productivity related stuff, what's one best practice and I know what you feel about best practices as a whole, but what's one best practice that you wish entrepreneurs would stop following?
speaker-1: Well, I think you nailed it when you said it. I think when you hear something is a best practice, oftentimes best practices are things that you're supposed to avoid. This is a best practice, don't do this, don't put free in the subject line. This is a best practice, don't send too many emails. This is a best practice, don't put a link in your LinkedIn post on LinkedIn. Whatever the best practice is, you need to retest it yourself. Because usually, by the time something becomes a best practice, I don't care what industry you're in, it is legacy information. and the amount of misinformation that is spread online is ridiculous. I don't mean people putting out conspiracy theories about nonsense. I mean people being lazy in their industry and taking whatever they knew from three years ago and posting it again now as if it's still current. So whenever you hear, it's the best practice to do this or to avoid this, you need to test that for yourself because usually it's garbage.
speaker-0: Right. Well, I mean, can attest to that. When I first discovered subjectline.com, I think you were on an episode of Mike Stelzner's show, you were talking about email marketing. I came across subjectline.com from that. Our email program when I started at Plugable was, I mean, I'll call it spade to spade, was anemic. It was on live support. And I tested a few subject lines with subjectline.com. And the first email I sent out with my results from that, a score of 100 out of 100, our open rates went from like single digits to... 50, 60 % and continuously. now we're nailing it. like deliverability was in the tank and I swear by it. I honestly, I live and die by that tool. thank you. All right. Let's, let's pivot into some productivity stuff. Obviously you're busy. You're on the go a lot. I see you literally everywhere. Right. What does productivity mean for you and how has that maybe changed over the years, especially since COVID you mentioned earlier?
speaker-1: anything. Yeah, I think for everybody out there, don't ever think that somebody has it nailed. I don't care what anybody says. Management of time and productivity is a lifelong journey. Okay, and that's how I look at it. And I would say in the last two to three years, the number one thing that I've done is have more respect for my own time. What I mean by that is I do a few things now. Number one, I used to always come from a place of yes. Hey Jay, can we get involved with this? You wanna do this? want this? Personal life, professional life, I'd be like yes. Absolutely, and then the thing would actually come up, the dinner I have to go out to, or seeing these friends that I don't want to see, or doing these events that make no sense for my business. And I'm like, why did I say yes to this? So I actually try to come from a place of no, now, and then have a little bit more respect for my time, and it's been a game changer for me, because that's the thing. Time is a hard thing to get back. The other thing that I have done, the two other big things that I've done recently is number one, I now do 15 minute meetings. ⁓ I used to do these 30 minute meetings, sometimes even hour meeting, and I realized everyone's, it's nonsense. The first five minutes, everyone's like, how you doing? How was your weekend? Who cares? And the last five minutes, it's like, all right, who's gonna be responsible for whatever? You don't need more than 15 minutes for the most part, and that is gonna be so much time back. But then the biggest thing that I do, and it doesn't matter if I'm on the road, if I'm at my office, whatever it is, I've really blocked out my calendar. Meaning that I have certain times. on my calendar that is for content creation. That's it. I have certain times that I do calls with prospects. I have certain times that I'll do be on a podcast or whatever. And these blocks are not touchable. I won't accept an invite in those blocks. I'm very firm about it. And I think the problem that people have when they do time blocking like this, they make exceptions for those time blocks. Well, this one's really important. I gotta move this around. I don't. And that has been a game changer for my life because now I'm able to actually function properly.
speaker-0: Yeah, that's good advice. I think I need to take that for myself. I actually schedule my lunch even in my calendar and when that comes up, I usually swipe it away. So I need to be little bit more diligent with that and make sure I follow that calendar. Okay, so is there beyond your time blocking and your calendar habits, is there one daily habit or ritual that's kind of non-negotiable beyond that? Whether to keep you on work, keep you working, keep you on track.
speaker-1: Well, I'll tell you about my day, not that you asked. I hate going to the gym. I hate it. But I go three days a week, religiously, during the week and then on the weekends. And I go in the morning. I go about 6.30 in the morning, three days a week. And I've been doing that now for about four years. I hate it with a patch. I'm the worst workoutter you've ever met. But I also learned you don't need more than 30 minutes. it's a game changer. I think everybody should try to build that into life. And I'm not some sort of really fit dude or anything like that. But it gets your mind. in the right place, because to be super real, a lot of times I wake up in a negative spiral. I wake up, ⁓ my God, this is falling apart, this is not going well, we're going to lose this client, this horrible thing's happening, blah, blah, blah, and I'm like the worst. I listen to a Mel Robbins podcast, I can't break out of this spiral. But when I go to the gym, by the time I get out, I'm like, right, it'll be all right, whatever it is. So I think that if anybody wakes up in kind of a negative spiral, you need to do something. Physical to break yourself out of it and that's been something for my life that has had a massive positive impact
speaker-0: Okay, so when I get up tomorrow if I'm a bad morning, just turn on my friend Mel and everything will be alright.
speaker-1: Well, the other thing, I know it's ridiculous, but I got this from Huberman's podcast and it's been great. I know how stupid this sounds, but he's a big fan of when you first get up in the morning, don't look at your phone or any of that stuff, which you all want to do. Try to find sunlight and stare at sunlight for like a minute or two. Right. Right. And I don't know. I don't remember all the science garbage that it does for your brain or whatever, but it does something. OK. And so what I do is I have a window. right in my bathroom there and I look out the window and it's like I'm like an idiot and I stare at the sun or whatever. I try not to burn my eyes. But after like a minute or so I'm like, alright, ready to start my day. I know these things sound like little woo woo and little ridiculous. I'm the least woo woo person out there. But I mean for myself, if I don't do these kind of steps, then I'm just like in, okay, where's my coffee? I'm miserable until I have my coffee routine. And that's just not a way to go through life.
speaker-0: Absolutely. Speaking of Mel Robbins, I listened to of her podcasts recently and her guest said, when you get up in the morning, before you even hit the floor, just say, today is going to be a good day and you'd be surprised how much of an effect that can have on you. And I've done it myself and I'm also not a woo-woo person. I'm not into all that hocus pocus, but it really matters for sure.
speaker-1: It does. agree. I listened to that episode. was good.
speaker-0: Yeah, okay, let's talk about gear a bit. What's your gear setup look like in the office and what's it when you hit the road?
speaker-1: Oh no, so here's the problem. I have the craziest gear, but I didn't set it up. But what I will tell you is, first of I have two screens. I actually want to go to a third screen, although I saw, and you probably know what it is, One of My Buddies has one of those really long kind of like half circle almost screens. I want to get one of those. That is like Star Trek stuff. I feel like you probably have that.
speaker-0: No, I've got five monitors in front of me right now. But I don't have the ultra wide curved. I've seen a lot of people with them and I'm like, I feel like I would just get kind of lost staring at the pretty pictures all day, but.
speaker-1: Ha It looks so cool. It looks so, so cool. And I will tell you that, so when I'm on the road, I'm also very intentional about my time when I'm on the road. If I'm on an airplane, or if I'm in a long car drive and I'm not driving, I mean, I know this is terrible. I am locked in working. Everyone should do what they want to do, but as soon as I can, my laptop's open on the plane, I'm on WiFi, I am using that time as best as I can. I know I should be maybe watching a movie. but I don't have a cocktail, I don't do any of that garbage, I lock in because I think that the biggest problem with time management, people think they don't have time, they have a lot of time. They're just wasting it looking at brain rot. So if you're intentional about your time, you will be so much more free.
speaker-0: Gotcha. So you would say if you hop on the plane and you've got a chatty neighbour, how do you...
speaker-1: ⁓ I'll tell you what I say. Instantly, I don't care. I don't care that's rude. Because I get that all the time. hey, after hello, if they keep talking, I just them, you know, I'm not a talker. I'm really sorry. And it's definitely rude. I don't care because I don't want them to be my best friend anyway. And I'll tell you the most bizarre story. How so funny. So years ago, I got on this plane and my wife and I just found out we were pregnant. She was pregnant. and we hadn't told anybody yet, she was at like eight weeks. I didn't even tell my parents. And because you know everyone waits like 12 weeks or whatever, whatever, so I didn't tell anybody. But I was so excited, I just found out, I got on this plane and I sit next to this woman, who I didn't know her, and she starts talking to me and she's like, you seem so, like what's going on, you seem so excited to have me. I go, all right, I'm gonna tell you something, since I don't know you. I go, we just found out that we were pregnant, my wife's having a baby. She was like, amazing, amazing, amazing, amazing. Okay? And then, what's your name, what's your name, great. Fast forward, I can't even believe this. It was my parents' next door neighbor who had just moved in there. I didn't know that. They told my parents. Oh no. That we were right there. My mom called me up she goes, I just found out from my neighbor that you're having a kid. So that was it. That was the last conversation I had on the plane.
speaker-0: Wow, yeah, I couldn't imagine that. Okay, so let's talk about the road setup. When you hit the road, do use laptop and go, iPad, second screen? What's your road setup like?
speaker-1: Yeah, it was. Wow, I wish I was cooler. I'm all about laptop with a Minnie Mouse. I love the Minnie Mouse. I think that's underrated, the little Minnie Mouse. I got my headphones on at all times. What else is my gear? I do bring on the road with me a special speaker and lighting because if I'm gonna be on a webinar or whatever, I really do think that people don't care enough about their audio, in my opinion. And bad audio. It doesn't matter if you're saying the secret to life. If you have bad audio, it's not enjoyable to listen to, people will tune out. So I'm very intentional about trying to make sure that I actually won't put out anything that I don't think my audio is of a really good quality. And I think that's another thing I think people need to prioritize. And you know better than I do, it's not expensive to have a decent microphone. It's really not. So I prioritize always bringing with me decent microphone.
speaker-0: Awesome. Okay, let's talk about tools, apps, that sort of stuff. Is there any tools that would be AI powered, just regular pen and paper even, anything that's kind of heavy in your rotation that's like a must have, this is my go-to.
speaker-1: Well, obviously AI is a big deal, and I'll tell you in the last few weeks, I've really migrated a heavy use from ChatGBT to Gemini. So for everybody out there, Gemini updated their thing to their 3.5 or whatever, and it's a game changer. And not only is it game changer in my opinion, but the usage is showing it. So the monthly active users on ChatGBT is at roughly 700 to 800 million, and now at Gemini, which is Google's kind of ChatGBT, it's up to about 400 million. And I think as 2026 progresses, we're gonna see Gemini really start to be a rival to ChatGBT because the outputs are incredible and also it has the power of YouTube built in, which is a whole other game changer. So if anybody out there is just locked in like, oh I use Claude or I use ChatGBT and you're just locked in on one, I think people are sleeping, and I don't work for Google, okay? I think people are sleeping on the power of Gemini and what it can do for you.
speaker-0: Is there any other like feature specific tools for your business that even AI powered ones that kind of must have for you?
speaker-1: Well, I'll tell you what sucks is my company runs on Teams, Microsoft Teams. ⁓ sorry. I don't like that at all and I need to get off of Teams. I'll probably never get Microsoft as a client because I'm saying that, but it's horrendous. And any other specific little AI tools that I use a lot? Not really. I have a bunch I've deleted. I just deleted the Sora 2 app off my phone. You know, some of these, you know, I'm very happy that the... AI video creation tools that people are having a negative reaction to seeing a lot of those videos because it's the end of civilization. So I'm trying to understand what they can do, but I really don't like using them.
speaker-0: Gotcha. Okay, from my perspective, you are always on, you're always on the go. Open up any social feed, you're there. Usually good, usually good. When you're mentally wiped, how do you reset quickly? How do you keep that persona up that you're always here, always ready?
speaker-1: Sorry. You know, it is a persona to a certain extent. And I think that that's the hardest part about social media is that you see all the stuff out there, you're like, oh man, Jay's out there, he's always out there posting stuff, it always seems like he's a happy dude and all this stuff, whatever. And that's what everybody's putting out there. That's not reality. And the reason I say that is everybody out there should know, listen, it's hard. It's hard to be pumping out the content, it's a hamster wheel, it's stressful, it's a grind, it's all the things. But, and maybe, I'll tell you why I try so hard to keep it up. I wasn't the best student in the world. I got through college in four years, but man did I struggle. I had to take statistics three times. I sucked at it, whatever. And coming out of college, what I learned was that I wasn't the smartest person. I can't do, I couldn't take calculus. I just wasn't. I go, but I was like, you know what? I did see a lot of people that were lazy, and I saw a of people that would just start things and not continue them. And what I've come to believe is that if you stay consistent, Doesn't matter if you're a doofus like me, you will beat out 95 % of people on this planet. Because the smartest people in world, the people I went to high school with, they end up going to like Harvard, the craziest schools, they're doing garbage. Okay, because they start one thing, they move on to another, and blah, blah, all the things. consistency, even when you're tired, even when you're exhausted, getting that post out there, making sure that newsletter drops, all the things. That is how you win in any industry and anything and you can't convince me otherwise. And it's not a six month thing, it's not a year long thing, it is a never ending thing and it is torture and it is horrible but that's how you win.
speaker-0: You've got a book coming out. Your people have done it. ⁓ Is that kind of the Cribs Notes underlying message that book delivers?
speaker-1: Yeah, people have done it. Again, I couldn't feel more imposter syndrome about anything than writing a book. By the way, all proceeds go to the V Foundation for Cancer Research. That's really the reason I wanted to do it. But it's one of those things, and I think this is good for anybody out there, is to do the thing that makes you really uncomfortable, whatever it is. Like, I could barely read a book, let alone write a book. And I've learned a lot. It's been a crazy experience. I wouldn't call it fun, but whatever it is, starting a podcast or a newsletter or sub stack or whatever the heck you want to try, everyone just waits and they talk about doing things. Just do it. Who cares if it doesn't work out? This is life and then that's it. We're all dead. What's the difference?
speaker-0: This is a good mantra. Okay, so for context, for me, if I get an idea, a good one or a bad one, if I don't write it down somewhere, if I don't get it into something, it's gone. How do you capture ideas or inspiration so they don't disappear? Do you kind of let them simmer or is it just straight pen paper?
speaker-1: ⁓ no, notes all day long. ⁓ My notes on my phone are crazy. I'm also a big ⁓ audio note dude. I'm also a huge audio message, text messenger now. I don't write text messages, I just audio files or whatever, but I'm writing down notes nonstop all day, annoying myself, because even the middle of the night, if I wake up with an idea I put on my phone, I can't get back to sleep unless I write it down, you know, whatever. And then 95 % of time when I look at it in the morning, I'm like, wow, that was the stupidest idea anybody's ever had. But at least it got out of my head time to time.
speaker-0: Yeah, no, I'm the same way. And I thought there's something wrong with me because I would wake up in the middle of the night, same deal. Why am thinking about email marketing at this dirty morning? I try to go back to sleep, but usually I just end up in a nightmare in a cold sweat. What keeps you inspired?
speaker-1: I like eating, so that's helpful. No, I think it's about time. I don't know why, but I always feel like I'm racing against time. And the reason I say that is I'm actually turning 50 in April. Okay, so I'm an old dude. I've doing this work thing for about 27 years. And I kind of feel, I'm never gonna retire, because what am I gonna do? But I've always felt that when I hit 60 or so, this whole routine of jumping up and down and posting stuff or posting a meme or whatever. It's gonna be a little weird, right, when I'm like 60. Who the hell cares about that old geezer dude? So I feel like I'm on a clock and whatever it is that I wanna do, I gotta actually do it like right now before my time of relevance runs out. And that's for anybody in the industry. Okay, like if you're somewhere and you're like, oh, I'm marketing manager. I wanna go higher or whatever, raise your hand and say, hey, can I run the social media? Hey, can I do this? Can I try it out? Because what are you waiting to stop waiting for all this garbage?
speaker-0: Amazing. How do you avoid burnout though if you're constantly going after the next thing right now? If you want it now, going after it without burning yourself out.
speaker-1: ⁓ my God, I think I am burnt out. I'm totally burnt out. I feel like I burnt out 15 different times and then I honestly, I will wake up, I will look at a picture of my kids and I would say, hey loser, your grandfather stormed D-Day, okay? I literally will, I'll think about that and be like, these people were like in World War II and I'm stressing out about how many people register for a webinar, like stop being such a loser and like you're not doing anything important, just. Just get with the program and I kind of give myself a pep talk which is rooted in me being rude to myself.
speaker-0: Okay, let's pivot into a few kind of, guess, questions to wrap up here. First, what's one thing, and we kind of touched on this earlier, what's one thing marketers, entrepreneurs, or really anybody should stop doing immediately?
speaker-1: Well, this is very specific, it's maybe not a fun thing, but this idea of evergreen content is really dying. What I mean by that is a lot of times, let's say you sell, I don't know, who cares? People wear neckties. You say, these are the coolest neckties. Or if you're on a B2B side and you're like, these are the HR things that you need to know. These kind of evergreen pieces of content that you put out there to drive interest for your business. The problem now is all the different AI tools, they prioritize massively anything that's associated with the date. So if it's the HR things you need to know, that piece of content on your site or whatever you're promoting needs HR things you need to know for Q1 2026. Or even if it's not new, you're saying updated January 2026 because the AI citations are looking for things with dates. So if you are... If your whole go-to-market is like you have resources area in your site, there's a bunch of evergreen stuff there, you're never going to get picked up by the AI tools, and the AI tools are going be what drives all engagement, all traffic, all things. So little things like that, heading into next year, and basically not playing the game that you've been playing this whole way through and kind of changing it up a little bit, that's really important.
speaker-0: Gotcha. Okay, if you could work anywhere in the world for one week, where would it be and why?
speaker-1: If I could work anywhere, that would be cool. ⁓ I guess I'd want to work at SpaceX, not because I could contribute at all, but I want to know what the hell's really going on out there. Maybe it's NASA. I feel like we're hanging out. I'm not like a UFO dude, whatever, but I find it very hard to believe that we're the only game in town. There's got to be some other little thingamabobbers walking around out there, so I'd like to know what's up. That's basically
speaker-0: Finally, finish the sentence, you're most productive or you're most creative when?
speaker-1: uh... women that have not yet
speaker-0: Ha
speaker-1: When, let's see, when am I most creative? Probably when I'm sitting on the couch and my wife has on a show that I have absolutely no interest in and I am on my phone. I like horrible TV, but I don't really care that much about the Kardashians, so when she has that on, I'm like, dude, I'm on my phone, I'm like boom. So yeah, that's another time of productivity for me is the Kardashians.
speaker-0: Gotcha. You mentioned TV. I know some of your TV habits. You make them pretty pretty known. What are you watching right now?
speaker-1: Okay, so that's interesting because it's a little bit usually I'm only reality TV, but I'm the middle of watching land man on Paramount, which is awesome It forced me to get the Paramount app I strongly recommend it and then the man inside with Ted Danson season 2 on Netflix. It is the nicest happiest show so I'm very excited about that and then the Real Housewives of the OC new season is coming out in like two days. So again Very important TV. I'm not a real Stranger Things person. I gave up after season two, don't care that much. They're all too old. I mean, they're like in their 20s and they're still riding bicycles. So I don't know what's going on.
speaker-0: Yeah, no, I was gonna ask you about Stranger Things, see what your thoughts were on that, but I think that answers the question. Okay, I'm not a big reality TV show nut. If I wanted to get my feet out of something, what's one series I should start and not run away screaming?
speaker-1: Well now the hot one to watch is either Love is Blind or Love Island. I really think Love is Blind is a great show. know, got Nick Lachey and Vanessa Lachey as hosts. It's worth watching. I've never seen anybody watch it not be like, this is entertaining. It's the end of humanity. Everybody's horrible, but yeah, it's a great use of your time. It is total brain rot.
speaker-0: Okay, I might give that a try. Not gonna make any promises. Nick was pretty good at the latest Guru conference. You were great! I think maybe that performance will be enough to give it a shot, but we'll see. I don't know if I can get into it. Okay, well Jay, this was great. I really appreciate you taking time to talk with us today. Let us know where we can find you and tell us a little bit more about your book and what it's supporting.
speaker-1: Oh, I appreciate that. Yeah, if you want to find out about my world, it's real easy. Just go to jschwedelson.com. That's my full name that you'll never be able to spell, so you can check that out. I also have a podcast called Do This, Not That, which is usually pretty weird. That comes out a bunch of times a week. And then lastly, my book, it's probably going to suck, my book, but if you want to make a donation that goes to any time that the book is bought, we're sending the net proceeds to the V Foundation for Cancer Research. The book is called... Stupider people have done it. It drops in April, but it's available on Amazon and everywhere right now, so you can check that out
speaker-0: All right, thanks again, Jay. Appreciate it.
speaker-1: Yeah, man. Thank you.
speaker-1: Yeah, first of all, fired up to be here. How did I become me? That's a good question. So I've had a marketing agency forever. Started smaller, got bigger, great. And then when COVID hit, all the marketing budgets were kind of disappearing. And so I freaked out. I said, oh no, I'm going to go out of business. I had a bunch of people at work for me. I didn't want to let them go. I said, how am going to stay in business? I said, well, maybe if I meet more people, I will get more business. So that was my idea. So at that time during COVID, I launched a giant free virtual conference with the idea I'll meet a boatload of people. I thought virtual conferences were stained, that they were done wrong. So we decided to make it fun, make it crazy. And we did that. And beyond meeting a bunch of people and my agency staying alive, it led me down this path of doing more big virtual events and podcasts and webinars, because it was really an appetite for that. So today I still have my agency. I also have a media business where we're doing all this stuff. Yeah, I am losing my mind. got, you know, two teenage kids and, you know, no two days are the same and I have no idea what's going on.
speaker-0: Awesome. Yeah, I attended the most recent guru conference. Amazing stuff how you guys put that all together and do that virtually. I too was of the opinion, virtual conferences were basically just a glorified webinar, right? But I can happily say that I was converted after the first guru conference I attended last year. This year was definitely a step up.
speaker-1: Thank you, I appreciate it. It's amazing to hear that. I'd say that for any marketing channel, any channel for anything, is that, oh, something is old school, it's garbage, it's whatever. It's really not. Everything, you could do a new spin on anything, and that's a lesson that I took from this whole thing, that you could reimagine anything and just make it cool.
speaker-0: So that's actually a perfect segue to our first question here is what's the, obviously email marketing is kind of one of the things, you're the email guy, right? So what's the biggest misconception in 2025 heading into 2026 that people still have about email?
speaker-1: Well, email, your email database, I don't care what business you're in, consumer, B2B, nonprofit, doesn't matter, your email database is the most important asset in your company, and more so than ever, and the reason being is there's no other methodology, no other channel where at any moment you can communicate with your entire audience of customers or prospects or whomever at one time. If you try to do it on search, you can't. You got to pay a boatload of money, you won't get all the search, right? And you can't even play that game with AI, it's like impossible to figure out. You can't do it with TV, you can't do it with radio, you can't do it with paid social ads. The only channel for almost no money that you could do that with is email. So people doubling down and trying to grow their email database so they have the ability to communicate via email is critical and email's not going anywhere. So that's why I'm a big believer in people focusing on their email marketing in general.
speaker-0: Awesome. So subjectline.com, let's talk about that for a minute. What kind of drew you to that specific area of email to kind of lean into, I guess you could say.
speaker-1: Subjectline.com is an interesting thing because in general it gives me cache. Like, oh, you founded subjectline.com, you must know a lot about email, which is always funny to me because the way that that was born was that I would go in with my marketing agency, I would go into these pitches and I would say, I had like a 50 slide page slide deck and doing all this stuff, email, direct mail, search engine marketing, website design, all this garbage. And I would walk out of these meetings one after another and I would get no business whatsoever. And the reason I would get no business was it was just a slop of all this stuff. And after one of the meetings, this guy said to me, you know, if you had just focused on email, maybe you would have gotten the business and then you could have gotten our other business too. And it was a crystal, it was like this light bulb thing for me and said, you know, I need to be known for something. I think this is case for any business. When you're not in the room, what are they saying about you? You know, like Plugable for example, ⁓ I think about the plugs I need or a special monitor or whatever. I know exactly what you all are selling because you're known for that thing. If you're not known for something, you're known for nothing. After that guy said to me, hey, you should have focused on email. That night, 15 years ago now, I went on my couch, I went on Network Solutions or GoDaddy and I bought the domain for 500 bucks, subjectline.com, and I threw up a free tool where people can go to this site, check their subject line, tell them if it's good or bad, and we've never charged a dollar for it. I don't make a single dollar from subjectline.com, but it gives us this cache where we get a lot of inbound interest because we're now known for something. And the irony is in my overall business, email's like maybe 35 % of my revenue. But if you ask anybody out there about my business, like, they do email. So it's like this entree point in. It's like a Trojan horse in. And I think that's good for any business out
speaker-0: Amazing. Okay, before we pivot into some productivity related stuff, what's one best practice and I know what you feel about best practices as a whole, but what's one best practice that you wish entrepreneurs would stop following?
speaker-1: Well, I think you nailed it when you said it. I think when you hear something is a best practice, oftentimes best practices are things that you're supposed to avoid. This is a best practice, don't do this, don't put free in the subject line. This is a best practice, don't send too many emails. This is a best practice, don't put a link in your LinkedIn post on LinkedIn. Whatever the best practice is, you need to retest it yourself. Because usually, by the time something becomes a best practice, I don't care what industry you're in, it is legacy information. and the amount of misinformation that is spread online is ridiculous. I don't mean people putting out conspiracy theories about nonsense. I mean people being lazy in their industry and taking whatever they knew from three years ago and posting it again now as if it's still current. So whenever you hear, it's the best practice to do this or to avoid this, you need to test that for yourself because usually it's garbage.
speaker-0: Right. Well, I mean, can attest to that. When I first discovered subjectline.com, I think you were on an episode of Mike Stelzner's show, you were talking about email marketing. I came across subjectline.com from that. Our email program when I started at Plugable was, I mean, I'll call it spade to spade, was anemic. It was on live support. And I tested a few subject lines with subjectline.com. And the first email I sent out with my results from that, a score of 100 out of 100, our open rates went from like single digits to... 50, 60 % and continuously. now we're nailing it. like deliverability was in the tank and I swear by it. I honestly, I live and die by that tool. thank you. All right. Let's, let's pivot into some productivity stuff. Obviously you're busy. You're on the go a lot. I see you literally everywhere. Right. What does productivity mean for you and how has that maybe changed over the years, especially since COVID you mentioned earlier?
speaker-1: anything. Yeah, I think for everybody out there, don't ever think that somebody has it nailed. I don't care what anybody says. Management of time and productivity is a lifelong journey. Okay, and that's how I look at it. And I would say in the last two to three years, the number one thing that I've done is have more respect for my own time. What I mean by that is I do a few things now. Number one, I used to always come from a place of yes. Hey Jay, can we get involved with this? You wanna do this? want this? Personal life, professional life, I'd be like yes. Absolutely, and then the thing would actually come up, the dinner I have to go out to, or seeing these friends that I don't want to see, or doing these events that make no sense for my business. And I'm like, why did I say yes to this? So I actually try to come from a place of no, now, and then have a little bit more respect for my time, and it's been a game changer for me, because that's the thing. Time is a hard thing to get back. The other thing that I have done, the two other big things that I've done recently is number one, I now do 15 minute meetings. ⁓ I used to do these 30 minute meetings, sometimes even hour meeting, and I realized everyone's, it's nonsense. The first five minutes, everyone's like, how you doing? How was your weekend? Who cares? And the last five minutes, it's like, all right, who's gonna be responsible for whatever? You don't need more than 15 minutes for the most part, and that is gonna be so much time back. But then the biggest thing that I do, and it doesn't matter if I'm on the road, if I'm at my office, whatever it is, I've really blocked out my calendar. Meaning that I have certain times. on my calendar that is for content creation. That's it. I have certain times that I do calls with prospects. I have certain times that I'll do be on a podcast or whatever. And these blocks are not touchable. I won't accept an invite in those blocks. I'm very firm about it. And I think the problem that people have when they do time blocking like this, they make exceptions for those time blocks. Well, this one's really important. I gotta move this around. I don't. And that has been a game changer for my life because now I'm able to actually function properly.
speaker-0: Yeah, that's good advice. I think I need to take that for myself. I actually schedule my lunch even in my calendar and when that comes up, I usually swipe it away. So I need to be little bit more diligent with that and make sure I follow that calendar. Okay, so is there beyond your time blocking and your calendar habits, is there one daily habit or ritual that's kind of non-negotiable beyond that? Whether to keep you on work, keep you working, keep you on track.
speaker-1: Well, I'll tell you about my day, not that you asked. I hate going to the gym. I hate it. But I go three days a week, religiously, during the week and then on the weekends. And I go in the morning. I go about 6.30 in the morning, three days a week. And I've been doing that now for about four years. I hate it with a patch. I'm the worst workoutter you've ever met. But I also learned you don't need more than 30 minutes. it's a game changer. I think everybody should try to build that into life. And I'm not some sort of really fit dude or anything like that. But it gets your mind. in the right place, because to be super real, a lot of times I wake up in a negative spiral. I wake up, ⁓ my God, this is falling apart, this is not going well, we're going to lose this client, this horrible thing's happening, blah, blah, blah, and I'm like the worst. I listen to a Mel Robbins podcast, I can't break out of this spiral. But when I go to the gym, by the time I get out, I'm like, right, it'll be all right, whatever it is. So I think that if anybody wakes up in kind of a negative spiral, you need to do something. Physical to break yourself out of it and that's been something for my life that has had a massive positive impact
speaker-0: Okay, so when I get up tomorrow if I'm a bad morning, just turn on my friend Mel and everything will be alright.
speaker-1: Well, the other thing, I know it's ridiculous, but I got this from Huberman's podcast and it's been great. I know how stupid this sounds, but he's a big fan of when you first get up in the morning, don't look at your phone or any of that stuff, which you all want to do. Try to find sunlight and stare at sunlight for like a minute or two. Right. Right. And I don't know. I don't remember all the science garbage that it does for your brain or whatever, but it does something. OK. And so what I do is I have a window. right in my bathroom there and I look out the window and it's like I'm like an idiot and I stare at the sun or whatever. I try not to burn my eyes. But after like a minute or so I'm like, alright, ready to start my day. I know these things sound like little woo woo and little ridiculous. I'm the least woo woo person out there. But I mean for myself, if I don't do these kind of steps, then I'm just like in, okay, where's my coffee? I'm miserable until I have my coffee routine. And that's just not a way to go through life.
speaker-0: Absolutely. Speaking of Mel Robbins, I listened to of her podcasts recently and her guest said, when you get up in the morning, before you even hit the floor, just say, today is going to be a good day and you'd be surprised how much of an effect that can have on you. And I've done it myself and I'm also not a woo-woo person. I'm not into all that hocus pocus, but it really matters for sure.
speaker-1: It does. agree. I listened to that episode. was good.
speaker-0: Yeah, okay, let's talk about gear a bit. What's your gear setup look like in the office and what's it when you hit the road?
speaker-1: Oh no, so here's the problem. I have the craziest gear, but I didn't set it up. But what I will tell you is, first of I have two screens. I actually want to go to a third screen, although I saw, and you probably know what it is, One of My Buddies has one of those really long kind of like half circle almost screens. I want to get one of those. That is like Star Trek stuff. I feel like you probably have that.
speaker-0: No, I've got five monitors in front of me right now. But I don't have the ultra wide curved. I've seen a lot of people with them and I'm like, I feel like I would just get kind of lost staring at the pretty pictures all day, but.
speaker-1: Ha It looks so cool. It looks so, so cool. And I will tell you that, so when I'm on the road, I'm also very intentional about my time when I'm on the road. If I'm on an airplane, or if I'm in a long car drive and I'm not driving, I mean, I know this is terrible. I am locked in working. Everyone should do what they want to do, but as soon as I can, my laptop's open on the plane, I'm on WiFi, I am using that time as best as I can. I know I should be maybe watching a movie. but I don't have a cocktail, I don't do any of that garbage, I lock in because I think that the biggest problem with time management, people think they don't have time, they have a lot of time. They're just wasting it looking at brain rot. So if you're intentional about your time, you will be so much more free.
speaker-0: Gotcha. So you would say if you hop on the plane and you've got a chatty neighbour, how do you...
speaker-1: ⁓ I'll tell you what I say. Instantly, I don't care. I don't care that's rude. Because I get that all the time. hey, after hello, if they keep talking, I just them, you know, I'm not a talker. I'm really sorry. And it's definitely rude. I don't care because I don't want them to be my best friend anyway. And I'll tell you the most bizarre story. How so funny. So years ago, I got on this plane and my wife and I just found out we were pregnant. She was pregnant. and we hadn't told anybody yet, she was at like eight weeks. I didn't even tell my parents. And because you know everyone waits like 12 weeks or whatever, whatever, so I didn't tell anybody. But I was so excited, I just found out, I got on this plane and I sit next to this woman, who I didn't know her, and she starts talking to me and she's like, you seem so, like what's going on, you seem so excited to have me. I go, all right, I'm gonna tell you something, since I don't know you. I go, we just found out that we were pregnant, my wife's having a baby. She was like, amazing, amazing, amazing, amazing. Okay? And then, what's your name, what's your name, great. Fast forward, I can't even believe this. It was my parents' next door neighbor who had just moved in there. I didn't know that. They told my parents. Oh no. That we were right there. My mom called me up she goes, I just found out from my neighbor that you're having a kid. So that was it. That was the last conversation I had on the plane.
speaker-0: Wow, yeah, I couldn't imagine that. Okay, so let's talk about the road setup. When you hit the road, do use laptop and go, iPad, second screen? What's your road setup like?
speaker-1: Yeah, it was. Wow, I wish I was cooler. I'm all about laptop with a Minnie Mouse. I love the Minnie Mouse. I think that's underrated, the little Minnie Mouse. I got my headphones on at all times. What else is my gear? I do bring on the road with me a special speaker and lighting because if I'm gonna be on a webinar or whatever, I really do think that people don't care enough about their audio, in my opinion. And bad audio. It doesn't matter if you're saying the secret to life. If you have bad audio, it's not enjoyable to listen to, people will tune out. So I'm very intentional about trying to make sure that I actually won't put out anything that I don't think my audio is of a really good quality. And I think that's another thing I think people need to prioritize. And you know better than I do, it's not expensive to have a decent microphone. It's really not. So I prioritize always bringing with me decent microphone.
speaker-0: Awesome. Okay, let's talk about tools, apps, that sort of stuff. Is there any tools that would be AI powered, just regular pen and paper even, anything that's kind of heavy in your rotation that's like a must have, this is my go-to.
speaker-1: Well, obviously AI is a big deal, and I'll tell you in the last few weeks, I've really migrated a heavy use from ChatGBT to Gemini. So for everybody out there, Gemini updated their thing to their 3.5 or whatever, and it's a game changer. And not only is it game changer in my opinion, but the usage is showing it. So the monthly active users on ChatGBT is at roughly 700 to 800 million, and now at Gemini, which is Google's kind of ChatGBT, it's up to about 400 million. And I think as 2026 progresses, we're gonna see Gemini really start to be a rival to ChatGBT because the outputs are incredible and also it has the power of YouTube built in, which is a whole other game changer. So if anybody out there is just locked in like, oh I use Claude or I use ChatGBT and you're just locked in on one, I think people are sleeping, and I don't work for Google, okay? I think people are sleeping on the power of Gemini and what it can do for you.
speaker-0: Is there any other like feature specific tools for your business that even AI powered ones that kind of must have for you?
speaker-1: Well, I'll tell you what sucks is my company runs on Teams, Microsoft Teams. ⁓ sorry. I don't like that at all and I need to get off of Teams. I'll probably never get Microsoft as a client because I'm saying that, but it's horrendous. And any other specific little AI tools that I use a lot? Not really. I have a bunch I've deleted. I just deleted the Sora 2 app off my phone. You know, some of these, you know, I'm very happy that the... AI video creation tools that people are having a negative reaction to seeing a lot of those videos because it's the end of civilization. So I'm trying to understand what they can do, but I really don't like using them.
speaker-0: Gotcha. Okay, from my perspective, you are always on, you're always on the go. Open up any social feed, you're there. Usually good, usually good. When you're mentally wiped, how do you reset quickly? How do you keep that persona up that you're always here, always ready?
speaker-1: Sorry. You know, it is a persona to a certain extent. And I think that that's the hardest part about social media is that you see all the stuff out there, you're like, oh man, Jay's out there, he's always out there posting stuff, it always seems like he's a happy dude and all this stuff, whatever. And that's what everybody's putting out there. That's not reality. And the reason I say that is everybody out there should know, listen, it's hard. It's hard to be pumping out the content, it's a hamster wheel, it's stressful, it's a grind, it's all the things. But, and maybe, I'll tell you why I try so hard to keep it up. I wasn't the best student in the world. I got through college in four years, but man did I struggle. I had to take statistics three times. I sucked at it, whatever. And coming out of college, what I learned was that I wasn't the smartest person. I can't do, I couldn't take calculus. I just wasn't. I go, but I was like, you know what? I did see a lot of people that were lazy, and I saw a of people that would just start things and not continue them. And what I've come to believe is that if you stay consistent, Doesn't matter if you're a doofus like me, you will beat out 95 % of people on this planet. Because the smartest people in world, the people I went to high school with, they end up going to like Harvard, the craziest schools, they're doing garbage. Okay, because they start one thing, they move on to another, and blah, blah, all the things. consistency, even when you're tired, even when you're exhausted, getting that post out there, making sure that newsletter drops, all the things. That is how you win in any industry and anything and you can't convince me otherwise. And it's not a six month thing, it's not a year long thing, it is a never ending thing and it is torture and it is horrible but that's how you win.
speaker-0: You've got a book coming out. Your people have done it. ⁓ Is that kind of the Cribs Notes underlying message that book delivers?
speaker-1: Yeah, people have done it. Again, I couldn't feel more imposter syndrome about anything than writing a book. By the way, all proceeds go to the V Foundation for Cancer Research. That's really the reason I wanted to do it. But it's one of those things, and I think this is good for anybody out there, is to do the thing that makes you really uncomfortable, whatever it is. Like, I could barely read a book, let alone write a book. And I've learned a lot. It's been a crazy experience. I wouldn't call it fun, but whatever it is, starting a podcast or a newsletter or sub stack or whatever the heck you want to try, everyone just waits and they talk about doing things. Just do it. Who cares if it doesn't work out? This is life and then that's it. We're all dead. What's the difference?
speaker-0: This is a good mantra. Okay, so for context, for me, if I get an idea, a good one or a bad one, if I don't write it down somewhere, if I don't get it into something, it's gone. How do you capture ideas or inspiration so they don't disappear? Do you kind of let them simmer or is it just straight pen paper?
speaker-1: ⁓ no, notes all day long. ⁓ My notes on my phone are crazy. I'm also a big ⁓ audio note dude. I'm also a huge audio message, text messenger now. I don't write text messages, I just audio files or whatever, but I'm writing down notes nonstop all day, annoying myself, because even the middle of the night, if I wake up with an idea I put on my phone, I can't get back to sleep unless I write it down, you know, whatever. And then 95 % of time when I look at it in the morning, I'm like, wow, that was the stupidest idea anybody's ever had. But at least it got out of my head time to time.
speaker-0: Yeah, no, I'm the same way. And I thought there's something wrong with me because I would wake up in the middle of the night, same deal. Why am thinking about email marketing at this dirty morning? I try to go back to sleep, but usually I just end up in a nightmare in a cold sweat. What keeps you inspired?
speaker-1: I like eating, so that's helpful. No, I think it's about time. I don't know why, but I always feel like I'm racing against time. And the reason I say that is I'm actually turning 50 in April. Okay, so I'm an old dude. I've doing this work thing for about 27 years. And I kind of feel, I'm never gonna retire, because what am I gonna do? But I've always felt that when I hit 60 or so, this whole routine of jumping up and down and posting stuff or posting a meme or whatever. It's gonna be a little weird, right, when I'm like 60. Who the hell cares about that old geezer dude? So I feel like I'm on a clock and whatever it is that I wanna do, I gotta actually do it like right now before my time of relevance runs out. And that's for anybody in the industry. Okay, like if you're somewhere and you're like, oh, I'm marketing manager. I wanna go higher or whatever, raise your hand and say, hey, can I run the social media? Hey, can I do this? Can I try it out? Because what are you waiting to stop waiting for all this garbage?
speaker-0: Amazing. How do you avoid burnout though if you're constantly going after the next thing right now? If you want it now, going after it without burning yourself out.
speaker-1: ⁓ my God, I think I am burnt out. I'm totally burnt out. I feel like I burnt out 15 different times and then I honestly, I will wake up, I will look at a picture of my kids and I would say, hey loser, your grandfather stormed D-Day, okay? I literally will, I'll think about that and be like, these people were like in World War II and I'm stressing out about how many people register for a webinar, like stop being such a loser and like you're not doing anything important, just. Just get with the program and I kind of give myself a pep talk which is rooted in me being rude to myself.
speaker-0: Okay, let's pivot into a few kind of, guess, questions to wrap up here. First, what's one thing, and we kind of touched on this earlier, what's one thing marketers, entrepreneurs, or really anybody should stop doing immediately?
speaker-1: Well, this is very specific, it's maybe not a fun thing, but this idea of evergreen content is really dying. What I mean by that is a lot of times, let's say you sell, I don't know, who cares? People wear neckties. You say, these are the coolest neckties. Or if you're on a B2B side and you're like, these are the HR things that you need to know. These kind of evergreen pieces of content that you put out there to drive interest for your business. The problem now is all the different AI tools, they prioritize massively anything that's associated with the date. So if it's the HR things you need to know, that piece of content on your site or whatever you're promoting needs HR things you need to know for Q1 2026. Or even if it's not new, you're saying updated January 2026 because the AI citations are looking for things with dates. So if you are... If your whole go-to-market is like you have resources area in your site, there's a bunch of evergreen stuff there, you're never going to get picked up by the AI tools, and the AI tools are going be what drives all engagement, all traffic, all things. So little things like that, heading into next year, and basically not playing the game that you've been playing this whole way through and kind of changing it up a little bit, that's really important.
speaker-0: Gotcha. Okay, if you could work anywhere in the world for one week, where would it be and why?
speaker-1: If I could work anywhere, that would be cool. ⁓ I guess I'd want to work at SpaceX, not because I could contribute at all, but I want to know what the hell's really going on out there. Maybe it's NASA. I feel like we're hanging out. I'm not like a UFO dude, whatever, but I find it very hard to believe that we're the only game in town. There's got to be some other little thingamabobbers walking around out there, so I'd like to know what's up. That's basically
speaker-0: Finally, finish the sentence, you're most productive or you're most creative when?
speaker-1: uh... women that have not yet
speaker-0: Ha
speaker-1: When, let's see, when am I most creative? Probably when I'm sitting on the couch and my wife has on a show that I have absolutely no interest in and I am on my phone. I like horrible TV, but I don't really care that much about the Kardashians, so when she has that on, I'm like, dude, I'm on my phone, I'm like boom. So yeah, that's another time of productivity for me is the Kardashians.
speaker-0: Gotcha. You mentioned TV. I know some of your TV habits. You make them pretty pretty known. What are you watching right now?
speaker-1: Okay, so that's interesting because it's a little bit usually I'm only reality TV, but I'm the middle of watching land man on Paramount, which is awesome It forced me to get the Paramount app I strongly recommend it and then the man inside with Ted Danson season 2 on Netflix. It is the nicest happiest show so I'm very excited about that and then the Real Housewives of the OC new season is coming out in like two days. So again Very important TV. I'm not a real Stranger Things person. I gave up after season two, don't care that much. They're all too old. I mean, they're like in their 20s and they're still riding bicycles. So I don't know what's going on.
speaker-0: Yeah, no, I was gonna ask you about Stranger Things, see what your thoughts were on that, but I think that answers the question. Okay, I'm not a big reality TV show nut. If I wanted to get my feet out of something, what's one series I should start and not run away screaming?
speaker-1: Well now the hot one to watch is either Love is Blind or Love Island. I really think Love is Blind is a great show. know, got Nick Lachey and Vanessa Lachey as hosts. It's worth watching. I've never seen anybody watch it not be like, this is entertaining. It's the end of humanity. Everybody's horrible, but yeah, it's a great use of your time. It is total brain rot.
speaker-0: Okay, I might give that a try. Not gonna make any promises. Nick was pretty good at the latest Guru conference. You were great! I think maybe that performance will be enough to give it a shot, but we'll see. I don't know if I can get into it. Okay, well Jay, this was great. I really appreciate you taking time to talk with us today. Let us know where we can find you and tell us a little bit more about your book and what it's supporting.
speaker-1: Oh, I appreciate that. Yeah, if you want to find out about my world, it's real easy. Just go to jschwedelson.com. That's my full name that you'll never be able to spell, so you can check that out. I also have a podcast called Do This, Not That, which is usually pretty weird. That comes out a bunch of times a week. And then lastly, my book, it's probably going to suck, my book, but if you want to make a donation that goes to any time that the book is bought, we're sending the net proceeds to the V Foundation for Cancer Research. The book is called... Stupider people have done it. It drops in April, but it's available on Amazon and everywhere right now, so you can check that out
speaker-0: All right, thanks again, Jay. Appreciate it.
speaker-1: Yeah, man. Thank you.
