WEBVTT
00:00:08.320 --> 00:00:14.880
Hi friends, this is Wendy Harrup, and welcome to the Say Yes to Yourself podcast.
00:00:15.039 --> 00:00:32.960
On the Say Yes to Yourself podcast, you'll hear stories from women just like us who are adding the practice of saying yes in their daily lives in big and small ways, and as a result are experiencing the truth that everybody wins when you say yes to yourself.
00:00:33.280 --> 00:00:40.880
Saying yes to yourself is a graceful unfolding, an intentional becoming of the very best version of you.
00:00:41.119 --> 00:00:50.159
It is my hope that in these conversations we are able to find our truth and be inspired and empowered to live our very best lives.
00:00:50.320 --> 00:00:57.759
I'm so excited to go on this journey with you, and I look forward to finding a bit of our own story in each other's.
00:01:25.519 --> 00:01:30.480
We have a group at the Cognac Jewelry School this week that are so fun.
00:01:30.799 --> 00:01:38.560
We are trying all sorts of new things in anticipation of the 2027 classes.
00:01:38.799 --> 00:01:47.439
So that's been a great time, and I love meeting these fabulous women that are saying yes to themselves in big and small ways.
00:01:47.840 --> 00:01:56.319
We have a woman who is 29, and we have a woman who is 78 this week.
00:01:56.560 --> 00:01:58.640
And I am here for it.
00:01:58.879 --> 00:02:00.319
I love all of this.
00:02:00.480 --> 00:02:15.439
I love these amazing women that I get to meet here in my beautiful life in France, my beautiful life in Massachusetts at the Phineas Wright House, and uh my beautiful world here with you on the podcast.
00:02:15.680 --> 00:02:28.479
In fact, today's guest is so special, such an amazing human, such, oh, I loved this conversation so much.
00:02:28.800 --> 00:02:45.439
And maybe I'm more aware because I am living in a country where I don't speak the language, but anyone up to really good things in their second language is just crown off to you, queen, because it is no joke.
00:02:45.599 --> 00:02:50.960
And I love that some of us are not letting that stop us.
00:02:51.120 --> 00:02:53.919
So today we have T Mai Shan.
00:02:54.719 --> 00:03:05.680
She is a PhD, the author of The Beauties of My So-Called Asian Life, a memoir exploring identity, belonging, and personal growth.
00:03:05.919 --> 00:03:15.919
Drawing from her experience as a refugee and daughter of immigrant parents, she shares a candid journey of navigating culture, faith, and self-discovery.
00:03:16.159 --> 00:03:27.840
Through themes of vulnerability, equity, and spirituality, her work reflects a deep commitment to bridging differences and embracing identity as an evolving process.
00:03:28.080 --> 00:03:36.080
Her storytelling offers both personal insight and a broader reflection of what it means to live authentically.
00:03:36.400 --> 00:03:44.719
I so enjoyed this conversation, and I cannot wait for you to have a lovely experience with T Mai Sheehan.
00:03:46.240 --> 00:03:50.080
T Mai, I'm so looking forward to this conversation.
00:03:50.240 --> 00:03:51.599
Thank you for being here.
00:03:51.919 --> 00:03:53.919
Thank you so much for having me as a guest.
00:03:54.159 --> 00:03:56.639
I'm so excited, looking forward to our chat as well.
00:03:57.199 --> 00:03:58.560
It's my great pleasure.
00:03:58.800 --> 00:04:00.319
I love this podcast.
00:04:00.479 --> 00:04:05.680
I love that I'm getting to meet such phenomenal women from all over the world.
00:04:05.840 --> 00:04:11.599
But as we discovered, quite a few in this beautiful little spot called Austin, Texas.
00:04:11.680 --> 00:04:17.600
I feel like a trip is in order since I already have so much to do when I arrive there.
00:04:17.920 --> 00:04:19.360
Definitely, definitely.
00:04:19.519 --> 00:04:20.720
Oh, that's so fun.
00:04:20.959 --> 00:04:26.399
Well, I would love to start by asking, how are you saying yes to yourself in this season?
00:04:26.800 --> 00:04:27.279
Goodness.
00:04:27.360 --> 00:04:33.920
You know, I mean, I think right now for me, this season that I'm in seems like it's been, you know, going on for a while.
00:04:34.160 --> 00:04:34.560
All right.
00:04:34.639 --> 00:04:38.000
So it doesn't happen overnight, but it's just, my goodness.
00:04:38.079 --> 00:04:41.199
I mean, there's so many ways that I could characterize that.
00:04:41.279 --> 00:04:54.079
But I think I'll start by just saying about a couple of years ago, I made the biggest pivot that I did not see coming, where I actually took a step away from work, from my full-time job to help take care of family.
00:04:54.240 --> 00:05:00.800
And then my family have at that time I had three family members in my immediate uh family who were going through some health issues.
00:05:00.959 --> 00:05:06.399
And it just got to a point, you know, where I wasn't able to really use work as an excuse to not be there.
00:05:06.639 --> 00:05:19.360
So I was doing a role, a job that I love that I thought I had finally arrived at, you know, I was in a place where I could hopefully make a difference in public education, which is my trade.
00:05:19.600 --> 00:05:27.120
And so it was hard to step away, but I just had so many signs that emerged that just said, this is what you've got to do for now.
00:05:27.360 --> 00:05:40.560
So when I stepped away, I realized, gosh, as much as I love helping my mom and dad and being present for family, I still really was sad about losing my worker identity because, you know, work was never a job.
00:05:40.639 --> 00:05:42.959
It was my calling, you know, to work in education.
00:05:43.040 --> 00:05:46.240
I mean, this is what you, you know, you've dedicated your life for.
00:05:46.480 --> 00:05:59.519
And so my husband said, Well, since you're not working right now and you're gonna be with mom and dad and spending time with them, why don't you use this time to do the things you wanted to pursue when you were gonna retire, which was to publish a book and to start my own business.
00:05:59.680 --> 00:06:02.079
And I went, okay, let me do that.
00:06:02.240 --> 00:06:03.759
I love him for you.
00:06:04.319 --> 00:06:05.360
Oh, he's amazing.
00:06:05.439 --> 00:06:06.800
Yeah, he is so inspiring.
00:06:06.959 --> 00:06:08.560
Yeah, he's he's my rock.
00:06:08.800 --> 00:06:10.000
But so I did that.
00:06:10.160 --> 00:06:15.759
I was able to somehow be present for a family, but also finally had a book that I had been sitting on.
00:06:15.839 --> 00:06:25.120
You know, the manuscript was just there, and I was just too afraid to do anything, too afraid to say yes to myself, to say that my stories were valid and worth sharing with the world.
00:06:25.360 --> 00:06:26.399
But I finally did it.
00:06:26.480 --> 00:06:28.560
So I got that book published and it's out there.
00:06:28.639 --> 00:06:35.360
And it's called The Beauties of My So-Called Asian Life: Vulnerability, Equity, and Spirituality.
00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:40.079
Essentially, it's an excavation of my identity and am I Vitese?
00:06:40.399 --> 00:06:41.279
Am I American?
00:06:41.519 --> 00:06:55.360
So it's a collection of personal stories about how those three things being vulnerable to build bridges across lines of difference, and also leaning into my spirituality, how all those things helped shape who I was and who I want to be going forward.
00:06:55.519 --> 00:07:06.720
So I'd say that was probably the biggest way I was saying yes to myself, really stepping back and saying, wait a minute, you know, all my life feels like narratives have been spun about me without me.
00:07:06.879 --> 00:07:18.560
And so this was my choice to tell my own story, my counter story to what all the folks out there were thinking about, you know, what immigrants are like or what Asian people are like or what Vietnamese women are like, et cetera, et cetera.
00:07:18.720 --> 00:07:23.600
So I was able to put that down on paper and put it into a book and get it published.
00:07:23.680 --> 00:07:25.279
And I'm super proud of that.
00:07:25.439 --> 00:07:30.959
And then also was able to uh start my own LLC as well, working in education.
00:07:31.040 --> 00:07:36.160
I've got about 25, 26 years in public education with all that experience doing different roles.
00:07:36.240 --> 00:07:42.000
I realized, gosh, it would be really great to work in the capacity of a speaker consultant.
00:07:42.079 --> 00:07:47.519
And I was doing a lot of speaking on the side, just you know, a lot of pro bono things, just being speakers and keynote speakers.
00:07:47.600 --> 00:07:57.360
I said, gosh, I'd really would love to be able to expand that and do that on a larger scale to really help make a difference and drive that systems change within educational organizations.
00:07:57.519 --> 00:07:58.319
So I started that.
00:07:58.480 --> 00:07:59.279
That's a little bit slow.
00:07:59.360 --> 00:08:10.160
I realized even though T Mai likes to do it all, I'm achiever is one of my top strengths trying to launch a business while publishing a book and promoting the book and taking care of family.
00:08:10.319 --> 00:08:11.279
It's a lot.
00:08:11.680 --> 00:08:12.079
Right.
00:08:12.319 --> 00:08:20.399
And you just said you were in the educational industry for over 25 years and you look like you're 25.
00:08:21.120 --> 00:08:28.639
So how you're also doing that with that beautiful skin, it's like I have a dreamy life and so many lines on my forehead.
00:08:28.879 --> 00:08:29.279
Thank you.
00:08:29.360 --> 00:08:30.800
I'm gonna give credit to my mom.
00:08:30.879 --> 00:08:34.639
My mom does not look her age, she's gonna be 80 next month, and she does not look 80.
00:08:34.799 --> 00:08:37.120
So wow, that's some really good genes.
00:08:37.360 --> 00:08:40.960
Amazing, and you have a PhD, you're just a queen.
00:08:41.120 --> 00:08:42.159
Good job, miss.
00:08:42.720 --> 00:08:44.080
Thank you, thank you so much.
00:08:44.480 --> 00:08:45.519
So amazing.
00:08:45.679 --> 00:08:50.799
I love it, and I'm really eager to hear anything that you want to share about the book.
00:08:50.960 --> 00:08:59.200
I'm very interested in your experience because I love people and I adore you already, and I already know how that feels.
00:08:59.519 --> 00:09:08.960
And my ex-husband and I adopted our daughter from China, she's 12 now, but she was two when we brought her home.
00:09:09.200 --> 00:09:14.639
And, you know, I know that you were not adopted, but you immigrated to another country.
00:09:14.799 --> 00:09:25.120
So holding these two cultures and navigating a place that is new, that there's so much resilience in that.
00:09:25.440 --> 00:09:51.759
And I don't know how to relate to the identity piece, but I want to hold sacred, generous space for her as she uh uh investigates and asks questions, and I will support her in whatever that looks like.
00:09:52.000 --> 00:10:06.399
Um but I'm I really appreciate all the insight that you have and your beautiful, generous willingness to share that obviously here today on the show, but in your book.
00:10:06.639 --> 00:10:07.360
So thank you.
00:10:07.519 --> 00:10:09.840
It's brave, big, important work.
00:10:10.320 --> 00:10:10.639
Sure.
00:10:10.720 --> 00:10:18.639
Well, first of all, just hearing you share about your experience adopting a baby from Titan, that just makes me think, oh, our conversation is so timely.
00:10:18.960 --> 00:10:19.279
Yes.
00:10:20.080 --> 00:10:20.480
But thank you.
00:10:20.559 --> 00:10:22.000
I mean, what a selfless act, right?
00:10:22.080 --> 00:10:24.080
To be able to adopt a baby um in need.
00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:24.960
So yeah.
00:10:25.279 --> 00:10:27.519
Well, she uh rescued me right back.
00:10:27.759 --> 00:10:30.480
Yeah, mutual, mutual, yeah.
00:10:30.639 --> 00:10:31.840
Thank you for sharing that.
00:10:32.000 --> 00:10:38.960
Yeah, and you know, I I I say that I'm I'm not biracial because both of my parents are Vietnamese, but I talk a lot about being bicultural.
00:10:39.919 --> 00:10:44.159
You know, I was born in Vietnam, but I left when I was two and a half.
00:10:44.399 --> 00:10:54.240
So I didn't really, you know, have a lot of experience living in Vietnam, but coming over here, being raised by Vietnamese parents in the United States.
00:10:54.320 --> 00:10:58.320
So you still have that mix of Eastern culture with Western culture.
00:10:58.480 --> 00:11:01.200
And you know, we came over, my mom and dad, they didn't know anything.
00:11:01.279 --> 00:11:04.480
They thought the best thing that they could do for their children was to acclimate.
00:11:04.639 --> 00:11:08.320
So we did everything we could to try to sound American.
00:11:08.399 --> 00:11:22.240
And so growing up, the language piece, you know, so that's another area that's you know pretty interesting because growing up, my mom and dad didn't want us to sound different when we started school, so they forced us to speak English as soon as we learned it.
00:11:22.399 --> 00:11:25.519
And so they said, watch American TV as you're learning.
00:11:25.600 --> 00:11:27.679
You and your sisters talk to each other in English.
00:11:27.840 --> 00:11:31.200
We'll speak to you in Vietnamese, but we prefer that you respond in English.
00:11:31.279 --> 00:11:33.600
That way you're really just you know immersed in it.
00:11:33.759 --> 00:11:37.679
And so now as an adult, I cannot speak my first language.
00:11:37.840 --> 00:11:48.000
So they were doing something they thought was right, raising us, but in the end, it ended up, you know, taking away a little bit of my culture, my identity, because I can't speak Vietnamese.
00:11:48.240 --> 00:11:53.440
And so I write a lot about in my book about this idea of being caught in the space in between.
00:11:54.320 --> 00:11:59.600
And um, there's research and stories out there about folks that have that hyphen right in their identity.
00:11:59.759 --> 00:12:03.519
So whether they're, you know, Vietnamese American or Asian American.
00:12:03.679 --> 00:12:17.840
And the idea is that this hyphen kind of just, you know, you're trying to figure out who am I, who should I, which identity should I identify with, which is gonna be maybe safe for me, which is gonna be the one where I belong in any given situation, which is fluid, right?
00:12:17.919 --> 00:12:20.799
Because it just really depends on the context and your surroundings.
00:12:20.879 --> 00:12:25.120
And so all these questions were always just, you know, stirring around in my head as I was growing up.
00:12:25.200 --> 00:12:28.720
I said, I don't know if I'm Vietnamese, I don't know if I'm American.
00:12:28.879 --> 00:12:32.399
You know, I've lived here for, you know, 50 plus years of my life.
00:12:32.480 --> 00:12:34.000
So I'd like to say I'm American.
00:12:34.159 --> 00:12:40.159
And I write about this in my book, Wendy, where I went to go get my driver's license renewed when I was 50.
00:12:40.240 --> 00:12:42.399
And they said, can we have your alien number?
00:12:42.559 --> 00:12:44.000
And I went, my alien number.
00:12:44.080 --> 00:12:45.440
And then I went, Oh, that's right.
00:12:45.759 --> 00:12:49.600
I have naturalization papers, and so I have an alien number.
00:12:49.679 --> 00:12:53.600
And so that kind of gives you this feeling like, wait a minute, I feel like this is my home.
00:12:53.840 --> 00:12:54.159
Right.
00:12:54.399 --> 00:13:02.960
At the same time when I went back to Vietnam in 2015, 40 years after I left, I was excited to go back to my homeland and visit where I was born.
00:13:03.120 --> 00:13:07.440
And then when I got there, I thought I knew enough Vietnamese to shop and negotiate.
00:13:07.519 --> 00:13:07.919
Oh, sure.
00:13:08.240 --> 00:13:08.799
Struggled.
00:13:08.960 --> 00:13:13.039
And the ladies of the shops at the market said, You're not Vietnamese, you can't speak it.
00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:15.360
And I went, Oh, but this is my home, you know.
00:13:15.519 --> 00:13:19.440
So you have that sort of this existential thing, like, well, what am I?
00:13:19.679 --> 00:13:26.799
But as part of saying yes to myself, that's why I felt like I had to write this book and get all these stories down and just make sense of it.
00:13:26.960 --> 00:13:30.320
And ultimately what I realized was I don't have to choose.
00:13:30.879 --> 00:13:40.080
So there's a lot of talk about, you know, are you gonna just live in the hyphen and accept that you're sort of navigating these two cultures, or do you want to empower yourself and live on the hyphen?
00:13:40.480 --> 00:13:41.600
Ooh, beautiful.
00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:47.120
I did a presentation recently at a women's conference where I spoke about that space in between.
00:13:47.200 --> 00:13:57.840
I said, you know, let's let's help folks who are bicultural or biracial, figure out how to feel empowered and live on a hyphen and really say, you know what, we don't have to choose this or that.
00:13:58.000 --> 00:14:04.879
We can be a beautiful synthesis of both identities, and that makes that makes us even more unique, more special in this world.
00:14:05.440 --> 00:14:07.840
Oh, all of that is so beautiful.
00:14:08.080 --> 00:14:18.240
Now you mentioned that when your husband gave you the fabulous idea to publish the book that you had been sitting on the manuscript.
00:14:18.399 --> 00:14:18.720
Yes.
00:14:18.879 --> 00:14:23.919
So when did you start writing this and how long did that take you?
00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:27.759
I want to say I started writing it in the summer of 2022.
00:14:28.000 --> 00:14:28.320
Okay.
00:14:28.559 --> 00:14:31.440
Probably took me, it probably took me just about a year to write.
00:14:31.679 --> 00:14:32.320
That's amazing.
00:14:32.480 --> 00:14:34.240
I will, my husband was very supportive.
00:14:34.399 --> 00:14:36.960
I was able to take, you know, three-day retreats.
00:14:37.039 --> 00:14:42.639
I call them writing retreats, where I would just go to different bed and breakfasts and I would just write, right, right.
00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:47.279
And so somehow the book in a year was finished, but I was just so scared.
00:14:47.360 --> 00:14:50.320
It's scary to put yourself out there and put your ideas out there.
00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:57.120
But I kept telling myself, you know, T Ma, you're not, you're, you're promoting you, but really you're promoting your stories and your lived experiences.
00:14:57.279 --> 00:14:57.440
Right.
00:14:57.759 --> 00:14:58.480
Are valid.
00:14:58.639 --> 00:15:10.480
And if I could, if I could connect with more people and help them feel better about themselves and have help them say yes to themselves if they felt they were in any kind of similar situation, then it was worth it to put it out there.
00:15:10.720 --> 00:15:14.879
And so when I quit my full-time job, I said, okay, I'm I'm gonna do this.
00:15:15.039 --> 00:15:16.799
So I did one final retreat.
00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:23.919
I went back and reread everything, edited it, added some things, you know, updated it and sent it off.
00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:26.240
And and voila, the book is available.
00:15:26.399 --> 00:15:27.679
So it's been amazing.
00:15:27.759 --> 00:15:36.000
And and hearing feedback, not just from friends that nobi, sure, but also from strangers that have read the books that have, you know, it's resonated with them in in certain ways.
00:15:36.159 --> 00:15:48.320
But yeah, I mean, there's so much involved there because it's even just you know what it's like to be have been a refugee, an immigrant, you know, where a lot of immigrants they choose to come here where we were refugees, we were kind of didn't have a choice, you know.
00:15:48.399 --> 00:15:51.200
We left right at the end of the Saigon, the Vietnam War.
00:15:51.440 --> 00:15:54.559
And so, you know, a lot of circumstances wrapped up in that.
00:15:54.720 --> 00:15:55.120
Yeah.
00:15:55.279 --> 00:15:56.159
But what a blessing.
00:15:56.320 --> 00:16:03.840
I tell my mom and dad, I said, you know, really, I owe you two lives because you gave, you know, brought me into the world in Vietnam, and then you brought us over here to America.
00:16:03.919 --> 00:16:09.600
Risk literally risked your life, and it's we have this new life that we would not have had if we had stayed back there.
00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:11.440
Oh, that's so beautiful.
00:16:11.600 --> 00:16:13.759
They must be so proud of you.
00:16:14.080 --> 00:16:14.639
I think so.
00:16:14.799 --> 00:16:15.440
I think so now.
00:16:15.519 --> 00:16:20.399
So if you read the book, there's some stories in there about how T Might went middle child rebellion.
00:16:20.639 --> 00:16:20.960
Sure.
00:16:21.200 --> 00:16:27.039
So there were times where maybe they weren't as proud, but yeah, I think now, you know, at this age, yeah, they have they have shared that.
00:16:27.120 --> 00:16:27.360
Yeah.
00:16:27.519 --> 00:16:27.600
Yeah.
00:16:27.919 --> 00:16:28.240
Of course.
00:16:28.799 --> 00:16:30.639
Life kept saying, when do I get to call you Dr.
00:16:30.720 --> 00:16:31.039
Dong?
00:16:31.120 --> 00:16:31.600
When Dr.
00:16:31.679 --> 00:16:32.000
Dong.
00:16:32.159 --> 00:16:34.960
And so I did I did make that a dream for him.
00:16:35.279 --> 00:16:36.399
That's so great.
00:16:36.639 --> 00:16:38.879
I love that you were rebellious.
00:16:39.840 --> 00:16:43.679
Would that have been tolerated if you were still in Vietnam?
00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:44.799
Probably not.
00:16:44.879 --> 00:16:48.480
And I don't think I would even deign to have even tried to do the things that I did.
00:16:49.679 --> 00:16:52.559
Because it I was influenced, right, by the culture that I'm living in.
00:16:52.639 --> 00:16:57.759
So it made me feel I was a could be a little bit, you know, more of a naughty, yes.
00:16:58.000 --> 00:16:58.559
That too.
00:16:58.960 --> 00:16:59.840
It's so interesting.
00:16:59.919 --> 00:17:06.400
And the reason I ask is because Amelia is 12 and she's not naughty, but she is having her own experience.
00:17:06.559 --> 00:17:06.880
Yeah.
00:17:07.279 --> 00:17:24.240
And I love that I'm aware enough and present enough to celebrate that how she shows up in a room is not on brand for how I show up in a room.
00:17:24.400 --> 00:17:27.279
And I like that she is having her own experience.
00:17:27.440 --> 00:17:52.559
And so I'm just now like super fascinated about how parents are raising their young children, um, especially daughters, and letting them have a voice, letting them have their own experience, of course, having guardrails, but we're the safe place to land, and controlling behavior is not providing safety.
00:17:53.039 --> 00:18:01.039
It's I think setting us up for an unfortunate experience as adults as well.
00:18:01.359 --> 00:18:07.039
We wouldn't know what to do if we've never experienced adversity, you know, when we're faced with it, we just wouldn't know what to do.
00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:09.119
So yeah, I think I agree with you 100%.
00:18:10.079 --> 00:18:11.039
Well, thank you.
00:18:11.440 --> 00:18:12.640
Stay as long as you like.
00:18:12.799 --> 00:18:13.920
No, I'm just kidding.
00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:16.400
Please disagree with me when you disagree.
00:18:16.640 --> 00:18:17.599
I celebrate it.
00:18:17.680 --> 00:18:18.240
I do.
00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:28.240
Um, what are you finding that um strangers are providing feedback around the book that um is surprising to you?
00:18:28.640 --> 00:18:35.440
Yeah, I think the fact that there are sharing of how they resonated with some of the mistakes that I've made.
00:18:35.599 --> 00:18:36.160
Ooh, interesting.
00:18:36.319 --> 00:18:40.000
So when you make mistakes in the past, you think like you're the only one, you're so hard on yourself.
00:18:40.319 --> 00:18:40.960
How can I done that?
00:18:41.039 --> 00:18:44.160
And there was so much shame, you know, that that clouds that.
00:18:44.319 --> 00:18:47.519
It's been wonderful to hear that other folks have made the same mistakes.
00:18:47.839 --> 00:18:50.960
And so that was surprising to me because you kind of get in that bubble, right?
00:18:51.039 --> 00:18:58.240
And think, you know, there's no one else that could have done these things like I did growing up, just being so oblivious and and so self-absorbed.
00:18:58.319 --> 00:19:02.559
And then when you hear other folks have done it too, you know, it makes you feel more validated.
00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:08.799
But that was the spirituality piece of the book that was so important because it allowed me to learn how to forgive myself.
00:19:08.960 --> 00:19:10.799
And you know this too, probably, Wendy, right?
00:19:10.880 --> 00:19:15.440
We're always so good at forgiving everybody else, but we're so hard at forgiving our own self.
00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:18.640
And so definitely learned how to do that for sure.
00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:23.200
How was that practice for you and what supports were in place for that?
00:19:23.519 --> 00:19:28.720
Yeah, I think finally realizing that I am a religious person, to be quite honest.
00:19:29.039 --> 00:19:32.480
My mom was Buddhist and my dad Catholic.
00:19:32.720 --> 00:19:33.039
Okay.
00:19:33.279 --> 00:19:36.079
Another example of how your upbringing has such a huge influence, right?
00:19:36.160 --> 00:19:38.000
How you grow up and the decisions you make.
00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:42.079
And and but even though that was the case, my dad never forced us to go to church.
00:19:42.160 --> 00:19:45.039
We went just on special occasions to honor our ancestors.
00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:47.839
And likewise, my mom never forced us to go to the temple.
00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:51.680
She would just tell us some things here and there that were, you know, rituals that they did.
00:19:51.839 --> 00:19:54.799
And they hoped that when I grew up, I would just decide for myself.
00:19:54.960 --> 00:19:59.759
But I said, if I'm not educated on either or, I can't really make an informed decision.
00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:06.079
And so ultimately, just through this experience of trying to figure out, you know, am I spiritual, am I religious, is there different?
00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:13.039
I realized, you know, that voice of my dad talking about God, God, God really did take hold of my heart.
00:20:13.119 --> 00:20:15.279
And I just there always was a God.
00:20:15.519 --> 00:20:21.519
But a nonconformist in me said, Well, I don't need to go to a building that's called church to show my faith.
00:20:21.680 --> 00:20:24.640
I can have my own relationship with God.
00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:30.079
And my husband, when I met him, he said, just come to church with me.
00:20:30.319 --> 00:20:34.559
And I went and it just, oh my goodness, the community and the fellowship.
00:20:34.640 --> 00:20:36.559
I've never experienced people like that.
00:20:36.880 --> 00:20:44.799
And moving away from that Catholic church into a Christian church really did help me feel less ashamed of the things that I had done.
00:20:44.960 --> 00:20:54.400
That big piece of being able to recognize that I deserve to go and be in community with other folks who may have made the mistakes I had to.
00:20:55.200 --> 00:20:56.240
I did belong there.
00:20:56.400 --> 00:21:02.480
And so that was really to me instrumental in being able to forgive myself and move forward.
00:21:03.359 --> 00:21:04.799
That's so beautiful.
00:21:05.039 --> 00:21:09.599
And community in church is such a gift.
00:21:09.920 --> 00:21:19.519
I um have not found that in Massachusetts, but my um I lived in California for 45 years before I moved here.
00:21:19.839 --> 00:21:25.680
And my last church was it just was that.
00:21:34.640 --> 00:21:44.000
It changes everything and the difference between your experience as a kid in church and then your experience as an adult in church.
00:21:44.319 --> 00:21:47.599
It can be everything you want it to be.
00:21:47.920 --> 00:21:48.960
And I love what you said.
00:21:49.039 --> 00:21:51.200
I love that expression that you use is life giving.
00:21:51.440 --> 00:21:54.480
I have never felt the inner peace that I have now.
00:21:54.720 --> 00:21:56.240
Oh, that's so beautiful.
00:21:56.319 --> 00:21:57.839
And you know what I love?
00:21:58.240 --> 00:21:59.759
I have never had the inner peace.
00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:04.079
That I feel now since I stopped going to church.
00:22:04.720 --> 00:22:05.119
Wow.
00:22:05.359 --> 00:22:06.720
Isn't that amazing?
00:22:07.119 --> 00:22:15.279
And isn't it beautiful that we both get to have our own experience and that the result of it is inner peace from God?
00:22:15.759 --> 00:22:16.880
Yes, I love it.
00:22:16.960 --> 00:22:17.279
Yes.
00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:18.480
I love it too.
00:22:18.640 --> 00:22:19.839
It's so good.
00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:25.440
And today's A Course in Miracles is the peace of God shines within me.
00:22:25.680 --> 00:22:36.240
I just love that the way I believe God provides everything we need right when we need it.
00:22:36.559 --> 00:22:39.200
And it's there waiting for us.
00:22:39.440 --> 00:22:47.440
And when we open ourselves up to communicating, to allowing that in.
00:22:47.680 --> 00:22:51.359
And you know, I grew up believing in God.
00:22:51.599 --> 00:22:54.960
I am still a grown-up who believes in God.
00:22:55.200 --> 00:23:06.240
But what I've softened around is what works for me, works for me, and what works for other people works for other people.
00:23:06.319 --> 00:23:08.960
And I don't care if they call it Joe.
00:23:09.200 --> 00:23:10.880
It doesn't matter.
00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:19.279
And I love the freedom in that because it's none of my damn business.
00:23:19.599 --> 00:23:29.359
If someone is finding inner peace with a higher power and calling it something different than me, I think that's so beautiful.
00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:34.160
And I love that it seems like that's what your experience has been as well.
00:23:34.319 --> 00:23:40.559
And you're finding it in a room with a bunch of fabulous people that you can actually hang out with regularly.
00:23:40.720 --> 00:23:42.160
That's so gorgeous.
00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:42.799
Sure.
00:23:42.880 --> 00:23:43.119
Yeah.
00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:52.880
I mean, you know, just looking like I do, you know, growing up and my experiences in school, I always gravitated towards folks who are considered the minority because that felt safe to me.
00:23:53.200 --> 00:24:13.759
And gosh, one of the most profound ways that I said yes to myself was to the research that I did when I was working on my doctorate, my dissertation, I realized that, you know, I had these mental models that were so limiting because experiences that I had where a lot of white children were calling me names and, you know, white people were saying these things.
00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:21.119
But I grew up instead of being angry and pushing people away, it created the opposite effect where I wanted to love people more.
00:24:21.359 --> 00:24:24.720
I wanted to befriend people more that looked different.
00:24:24.960 --> 00:24:34.880
And so I, one of the things I'm really proud of is just having friends that, you know, are from all ages, all generations, all shapes, all sizes, all races.
00:24:35.359 --> 00:24:44.880
I mean, to me, saying you say yes to yourself, knowing that, you know, you want to expand those mental models so that you can't have an enriching life.
00:24:45.039 --> 00:24:48.640
To me, when you say yes to yourself, you're saying yes to all of this, right?
00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:50.720
All of this beauty that the world has to offer.
00:24:51.440 --> 00:25:02.960
So yeah, the equity piece was I chose that as one of the beauties in my book because it really did help me realize, well, wait a minute, T Mai, you're saying all this stuff about how, you know, and and I worked as a chief equity officer.
00:25:03.039 --> 00:25:04.799
That was my last full-time gig.
00:25:04.960 --> 00:25:09.359
So if this is what I'm preaching, how am I also doing the practice?
00:25:09.440 --> 00:25:10.720
How am I also living it?
00:25:10.880 --> 00:25:24.640
And so I always had this idea that as an immigrant coming over here, I had to constantly prove myself, prove to people that didn't look like me, that were white, that you know what, you did a good thing allowing me to come in your country, you know, the military that brought me over here, my family.
00:25:24.799 --> 00:25:25.599
I deserve to be here.
00:25:25.759 --> 00:25:26.960
I always had to prove myself.
00:25:27.039 --> 00:25:30.319
And finally I just realized wait, I don't have to prove anything to myself.
00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:32.559
God built me this way, God loves me.
00:25:32.640 --> 00:25:37.279
And and I had to just, you know, learn how to lean into that and just be proud of who I am.
00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:56.880
And I love how leaning into that did open up this ability to love everybody else as well, and not lecturing them every time they do whatever they're gonna do, because that just models more rejection.
00:25:57.119 --> 00:25:58.559
And you're modeling love.
00:25:58.640 --> 00:26:02.400
You're it's never gonna go wrong, and it never leads you wrong.
00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:02.880
Yeah.
00:26:03.119 --> 00:26:11.440
And you know, working in public education, as you can imagine, it's not like I can go around and preach and you know, right, but you can love.
00:26:11.680 --> 00:26:11.920
Right.
00:26:12.079 --> 00:26:15.279
I can love and I can model, you know, right.
00:26:15.440 --> 00:26:17.359
I can model what it's like to be a Christian.
00:26:17.519 --> 00:26:21.119
I don't have to tell folks, you know, your God is not as good as my God.
00:26:21.200 --> 00:26:24.400
You know, I'm grateful for all the different faiths that are out there.
00:26:24.559 --> 00:26:34.240
I'm grateful to, you know, for the people that I encounter that, you know, have something bigger themselves that guides them, that you know, fuels them and and gives them that hope and inspiration.
00:26:34.319 --> 00:26:39.440
So just exactly like you said, it doesn't all look the same, but it provides that same feeling, right?
00:26:39.519 --> 00:26:41.279
That inner peace, that inner love.
00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:46.559
And it is so evidenced by just spending time in your presence.
00:26:46.640 --> 00:26:51.279
And it's evidenced by spending time in other people's presence as well.
00:26:51.440 --> 00:26:59.440
It's like that's that's where the connection comes, that's where the unity comes, is that we're joined together by love.
00:26:59.680 --> 00:27:08.640
And if someone's not recognizing that in themselves or in their surroundings, we don't recognize it in each other.
00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:10.480
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
00:27:10.559 --> 00:27:13.440
Yeah, and that's what I'm trying to do with my business.
00:27:13.680 --> 00:27:16.319
So if I'm able to talk about it, please say yes.
00:27:16.559 --> 00:27:19.440
So the business is called innervate to educate.
00:27:19.599 --> 00:27:22.319
So not innovate, but inner I-N-N-E-R.
00:27:22.720 --> 00:27:23.039
Love it.
00:27:23.200 --> 00:27:33.440
I came with that because I came up with that name because there's so much that I believe has to work has to come from inside before we can transform the world around us.
00:27:33.839 --> 00:27:38.480
And so there's a lot of that growing up of, you know, when I grew up, I didn't want to have kids, I didn't want to get married.
00:27:38.559 --> 00:27:41.359
I said, oh no, I'm gonna change the world, make it a better place.
00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:47.519
And then I realized, well, actually to do that, I need to be willing to change from within.
00:27:47.759 --> 00:27:50.000
And that idea was always there in the back of my head.
00:27:50.160 --> 00:28:07.680
But, you know, as I grew up and, you know, now into my 50s, I realized, gosh, that is still so prominent, such a prevailing idea still, that all the change we want to see around us, it has to start within us because I see so much, you know, canceling and finger pointing and blaming.
00:28:07.759 --> 00:28:10.799
It's like, well, you know, that work actually has to start from within.
00:28:10.960 --> 00:28:34.000
So the idea from the business is that, and I really, my goal is to work with educational organizations, you know, anywhere where folks are serving students and really just work with the teachers and educational leaders and say, you know what, we do a lot of good things in school districts, in education organizations to change policy and practice so that allows students to reach their full potential.
00:28:34.240 --> 00:28:43.599
But if you really think about systems change, the things that propel us to make certain decisions come from our hearts, our minds, our lived experiences.
00:28:43.839 --> 00:28:51.759
And that we have to be willing to step into an educational space and go, wait a minute, what am I bringing to this space because of my lived experience?
00:28:51.839 --> 00:28:56.400
It's either limiting students or allowing them to excel.
00:28:56.720 --> 00:28:59.680
And, you know, a lot of those mental models aren't conscious to us.
00:28:59.839 --> 00:29:09.759
And how do we be willing to innovate to really look within so that we can be there for children and see that every child has the potential to be successful?
00:29:10.079 --> 00:29:16.000
Oh my gosh, it's a gorgeous mission and a beautiful vision statement.
00:29:16.480 --> 00:29:20.880
How in the world is this working?
00:29:21.200 --> 00:29:23.039
How are you implementing this?
00:29:23.200 --> 00:29:34.880
Because of course it's beautiful, and I can imagine the teachers that resonate with why they became educators and why they want to do what they want to do.
00:29:35.119 --> 00:29:51.680
But there are also people that really love systems that they think there's nothing broken about it, and there's nothing that should change, and it's just this generation's got it all wrong and all the things.
00:29:51.920 --> 00:29:53.920
So, what's your experience like?
00:29:54.559 --> 00:29:58.640
So, to be very honest with you, the business is still very in its emergent stage.
00:29:58.880 --> 00:29:59.279
Awesome.
00:29:59.519 --> 00:30:07.680
When I had first started out, I had a couple of clients and did some work there, but at that time the business was really branded around DEI solutions, sure.
00:30:07.759 --> 00:30:09.680
Okay, diversity, equity, and inclusion.
00:30:09.759 --> 00:30:15.039
And in Texas, unfortunately, about gosh, was it spring of last year?
00:30:15.200 --> 00:30:22.240
We had some legislation come out that now anything that looks and sounds or feels like DEI is actually illegal now in public schools.
00:30:22.799 --> 00:30:26.240
And so that really, you know, gave my business pause.
00:30:26.319 --> 00:30:30.160
And I went, okay, I'm not even able to do this because it's not legal.
00:30:30.400 --> 00:30:33.200
That gives me pause about Texas, not about the business.
00:30:33.599 --> 00:30:34.640
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:30:35.200 --> 00:30:36.480
So yeah, exactly.
00:30:36.640 --> 00:30:38.960
And so it was it was really hard, you know.
00:30:39.359 --> 00:30:40.640
I had to really stop and think.
00:30:40.799 --> 00:30:42.400
It's like, can I do this work?
00:30:42.559 --> 00:30:42.799
Right.
00:30:43.039 --> 00:30:47.599
Are there even people who believe that this is even possible to do this work?
00:30:47.759 --> 00:30:51.599
And anytime I thought about letting go of that idea, I couldn't.
00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:58.240
And so actually I went back into the middle school classroom last August, just working part-time.
00:30:58.319 --> 00:31:07.279
And I said, you know, if I'm doing all this work wanting to support teachers and educational leaders, let me go back to the classroom and see if my solutions I'm offering are still viable.
00:31:07.440 --> 00:31:12.720
And then because I hadn't taught in 15 years, I was doing a lot of different leadership roles in the district.
00:31:12.880 --> 00:31:16.400
And just working there this year made me realize, gosh, this is still so needed.
00:31:16.640 --> 00:31:21.119
It's still so needed because the students that we have in the classroom are growingly diverse.
00:31:21.279 --> 00:31:33.039
And we want to make sure that, you know, teachers like me that walk into the classroom, no matter what that student looks like, how they learn, how they speak, what they speak, that, you know, we know that they can all be successful.
00:31:33.279 --> 00:31:42.880
And so even though it was challenging to go back and teach middle school students at my age, I can imagine it's challenging raising a middle schooler, and that's only one of them.
00:31:43.359 --> 00:31:44.240
12 years old, yes.
00:31:44.400 --> 00:31:46.160
And so, but it's been an amazing experience.
00:31:46.240 --> 00:31:51.759
If anything, it really validates more of this business model and the vision and the mission and why I want to move forward.
00:31:51.839 --> 00:31:54.000
So I'm I'm hoping that, you know.
00:31:54.319 --> 00:31:57.519
So over spring break, I love doing solo trips.
00:31:57.599 --> 00:31:59.200
That's another way I say yes to myself.
00:31:59.279 --> 00:32:00.640
I love doing solo trips.
00:32:01.039 --> 00:32:06.640
Get away to myself, like whether there are road trips that I'm doing by myself or I'm flying out of the country by myself.
00:32:06.799 --> 00:32:08.319
My husband is so cool with it.
00:32:08.400 --> 00:32:09.119
And I love it.
00:32:09.200 --> 00:32:14.480
I love that you did writing retreats because when I travel, I lead culinary trips to France.
00:32:14.640 --> 00:32:22.559
And when I'm traveling, I offer my bed and breakfast as a for creatives in residents.
00:32:22.720 --> 00:32:33.680
So if someone's working on their book or wants to paint or do photography or write music or whatever they want to do, um, then they stay for two weeks at a time for that beautiful pattern interrupt.
00:32:33.920 --> 00:32:36.000
So I love so much that you did that.
00:32:36.240 --> 00:32:36.799
That's awesome.
00:32:36.880 --> 00:32:37.200
Thank you.
00:32:37.279 --> 00:32:43.680
Well, I so I went to Maine for about four days and I said, Why are you stalled in this business idea?
00:32:44.000 --> 00:32:53.119
And it really made me realize that since I hadn't been working for a couple of years, losing that worker identity, I lost also my confidence.
00:32:53.359 --> 00:32:58.079
And so it was really scary to think about putting those ideas out there again for this business.
00:32:58.240 --> 00:33:08.000
And so getting away for this few days and really sitting down and working through my business plan, it really made me feel even more re-inspired to move forward with this work.
00:33:08.079 --> 00:33:13.119
And so that's why I say it's emergent because it's it's a setback, but oh, it's evolving.
00:33:13.200 --> 00:33:15.039
I feel like it's a catapult.
00:33:15.359 --> 00:33:16.720
Um, I have a question.
00:33:16.880 --> 00:33:21.680
First of all, is your business does it have to only be in Texas?
00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:24.160
It does not have to be only in Texas, right?
00:33:24.240 --> 00:33:33.279
And I bet that there are some other school districts that would very much welcome what you have to offer and bring.
00:33:33.359 --> 00:33:45.039
And of course, like that creates a movement and that creates licensing and franchising almost of your idea into separate school districts.
00:33:45.440 --> 00:34:04.720
And I was also wondering if you have already, I don't see it in your bio, but or if you're considering a podcast because it's another way to get this word out that travels immeasurably farther than we imagine.
00:34:05.119 --> 00:34:13.920
But of course, this is not just for US-based school systems, like this is for the children of the world.
00:34:14.239 --> 00:34:27.920
And I think that these things that can feel like setbacks help us see that, oh, it felt really big, but this is showing me that that's really small.
00:34:28.159 --> 00:34:31.360
And this is where I can go now.
00:34:31.599 --> 00:34:35.760
And the only way that I could go there is because this door shut.
00:34:35.920 --> 00:34:40.880
Um, I just think it's very, very, very exciting what's in store for you.
00:34:41.199 --> 00:34:41.519
Thank you.
00:34:41.599 --> 00:34:43.679
And thank you for sharing those ideas with me too.
00:34:43.840 --> 00:34:44.400
Absolutely.
00:34:44.559 --> 00:34:48.559
I definitely know that I need to spend time doing a little bit more marketing and getting it out there.
00:34:48.880 --> 00:34:50.639
I am full of good ideas, Queen.
00:34:50.960 --> 00:35:05.119
And I am telling you, really easy marketing is a podcast because you're speaking about what you love and you already have all of the content because it is your business.
00:35:05.440 --> 00:35:06.960
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:08.000
Welcome.
00:35:08.239 --> 00:35:09.119
It's so fun.
00:35:09.280 --> 00:35:26.480
Okay, so in this dreamy idea of this emergent business, that let's just say, wouldn't it be nice if this became something that could integrate nationally and internationally?
00:35:27.840 --> 00:35:29.840
What would that feel like for you?
00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:31.199
What would that look like?
00:35:31.840 --> 00:35:35.280
I think that there would be a lot of cross-sector collaboration.
00:35:35.519 --> 00:35:36.639
That's what I would love.
00:35:36.800 --> 00:35:48.000
And so I'm not sure if you're familiar with the inner development goals IDG, but there's a movement already happening in Europe around the work of transforming systems around us by starting within.
00:35:48.239 --> 00:35:52.719
So it's moving from the the I to the we to the systems change.
00:35:52.960 --> 00:36:06.400
And so I had been plugged into them, trying to attend some of their workshops when I can, when the time change works for me, but uh definitely know that there are some IDG, what they call hubs here in the state.
00:36:06.480 --> 00:36:10.400
So trying to just stay plugged in and really, it's all to me, it's all about connections.
00:36:10.559 --> 00:36:10.880
Right.
00:36:11.119 --> 00:36:16.239
I mean, I can't, even though I'm a solopreneur, there's no way that I can execute this vision on my own.
00:36:16.400 --> 00:36:17.199
I do know that.
00:36:17.360 --> 00:36:21.280
So I've definitely got to just plug into my connections and try to push that out there.
00:36:21.440 --> 00:36:22.800
But what would it feel like?
00:36:23.039 --> 00:36:39.679
Gosh, it would just feel, I mean, it would feel amazing, you know, for lack of a better word, you know, feel like I'm making a difference and that folks are able to see a shift in their thinking in some way as a result of going inside and doing this deep, deep work.
00:36:40.320 --> 00:36:47.440
And the students, you know, that if I can be very practical, you know, education leaders want to see a change in their data, right?
00:36:47.519 --> 00:36:53.280
So that we can see performance data showing that all student groups are are excelling and doing well.
00:36:53.599 --> 00:36:58.639
And that's what I really would hope to be able to, you know, see in terms of of data.
00:36:58.800 --> 00:37:02.079
But there's also that affect part, I think, that's so huge too.
00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:06.960
When you walk into a classroom, you see and you feel that every student there feels like they belong.
00:37:07.760 --> 00:37:13.679
Every student is being called on because they're seen as someone that could have the right answer that knows.
00:37:14.480 --> 00:37:29.679
So it's both, you know, it's the affect piece of being able to make a difference in the in children's lives, but also um being able to set them up for success so that they can reach their full potential and go on to have their own podcasts or write their own books or start their own business, what have you.
00:37:30.239 --> 00:37:47.519
Which is so beautiful because as a result of somebody else doing their own inner work, those kids get the benefit, which holds space for them to do their own inner work, which then they go home and the ripple effect is so beautiful.
00:37:47.840 --> 00:37:48.159
Yes.
00:37:48.320 --> 00:37:53.280
And I remember when I first started out, I was going to so many small business networking events.
00:37:53.360 --> 00:37:54.239
I mean, so many.
00:37:54.400 --> 00:37:59.199
And I had folks tell me, oh, you should expand and work with, you know, corporate as well, not just education.
00:37:59.519 --> 00:38:02.480
And I was a little bit, you know, attracted by that, but said, you know what?
00:38:02.559 --> 00:38:06.639
To me, education is the heart of where we create, right?
00:38:07.199 --> 00:38:14.159
Out into the world, students who are going to be adults, who are going to be, you know, contributing citizens globally.
00:38:14.320 --> 00:38:17.519
And so I still feel like my heart is just it's with education in it.
00:38:17.679 --> 00:38:17.920
Right.
00:38:18.079 --> 00:38:24.480
And you can have corporate sponsors, corporate sponsors, because those kids are gonna end up being employees.
00:38:25.440 --> 00:38:26.559
So you'll get it.
00:38:26.719 --> 00:38:27.280
Yeah, yeah.
00:38:27.360 --> 00:38:30.639
So there's there's opportunity for partnership and collaboration for sure.
00:38:30.800 --> 00:38:38.800
But in terms of the actual core of the work, I'd see that being still with it's so beautiful and expansive, and I'm so excited for you.
00:38:39.119 --> 00:38:39.599
Thank you.
00:38:39.760 --> 00:38:40.639
Thank you so much.
00:38:40.719 --> 00:38:41.039
Yeah.
00:38:41.199 --> 00:38:44.239
And the long-term dream is to have an actual brick and mortar.
00:38:44.320 --> 00:38:50.159
I envisioned an innovative educate headquarters where it always serves as a retreat for teachers too.
00:38:50.320 --> 00:38:58.639
And a lot of times, districts want to have a place that's off site, not in their headquarters, to just go have meetings and workshops.
00:38:58.719 --> 00:39:03.519
And gosh, I would love to have just a beautiful retreat like space for that to happen.
00:39:03.840 --> 00:39:04.559
I love it.
00:39:04.719 --> 00:39:05.199
What else?
00:39:05.360 --> 00:39:05.920
Give me more.
00:39:06.159 --> 00:39:06.880
More dreams.
00:39:07.199 --> 00:39:08.800
I2E headquarters.
00:39:09.679 --> 00:39:10.639
I love that.
00:39:11.280 --> 00:39:12.559
It's beautiful.
00:39:12.800 --> 00:39:16.880
It's so much fun to give yourself space to dream.
00:39:17.199 --> 00:39:18.320
For sure, for sure.
00:39:18.480 --> 00:39:27.840
And you know, I actually see a connection between the book and the business because as part of the business, I call myself the chief innovation officer, the CIO.
00:39:28.159 --> 00:39:32.159
And so if I'm going to ask people to innovate, I have to be willing to do that work too.
00:39:32.239 --> 00:39:41.920
And so the book actually was a practice in me learning how to innovate, how to stimulate my own heart and mind to be able to make the change that I want to see around me.
00:39:42.159 --> 00:39:43.360
Oh my gosh.
00:39:44.159 --> 00:39:45.599
Fabulous things ahead.
00:39:45.760 --> 00:39:46.639
I know it.
00:39:46.880 --> 00:39:48.880
Yes, yes, yes, definitely, definitely.
00:39:48.960 --> 00:39:50.559
We got to just keep saying yes to ourselves.
00:39:50.800 --> 00:39:51.280
That's right.
00:39:51.440 --> 00:39:53.199
From a place of alignment.
00:39:53.440 --> 00:39:53.760
Yes.
00:39:54.000 --> 00:39:56.559
And that action is inspired.
00:39:56.800 --> 00:39:57.760
Yes, for sure.
00:39:57.920 --> 00:39:58.239
Yeah.
00:39:58.480 --> 00:39:59.519
Oh, it's beautiful.
00:39:59.760 --> 00:40:02.079
I have loved this conversation.
00:40:02.320 --> 00:40:04.000
Thank you so much for being here.
00:40:04.159 --> 00:40:09.360
Please tell everyone where they can find and follow you, how they can get the book, all the good things.
00:40:09.599 --> 00:40:10.000
Definitely.
00:40:10.079 --> 00:40:12.480
I would say the best place is go to my author website.
00:40:12.559 --> 00:40:16.000
It's my full name, tmydongxian.com.
00:40:16.159 --> 00:40:21.280
There's information on that website about where to buy the book and then also how to connect to the business as well.
00:40:21.440 --> 00:40:24.159
And I also do a monthly reflection on there too.
00:40:24.320 --> 00:40:28.960
So if folks don't want to read the book or don't have the time, they can at least follow and read the refections.
00:40:29.039 --> 00:40:30.320
And I'd love to hear from anyone.
00:40:30.400 --> 00:40:32.159
There's a space to connect with me as well.
00:40:32.480 --> 00:40:33.199
Oh, perfect.
00:40:33.360 --> 00:40:33.679
Thank you.
00:40:33.760 --> 00:40:35.599
We will link that down in the show notes.
00:40:35.760 --> 00:40:37.599
But thank you so much, T Mai.
00:40:37.840 --> 00:40:40.800
I I really know that big things are ahead.
00:40:41.039 --> 00:40:42.079
Thank you so much, Wendy.
00:40:42.239 --> 00:40:43.760
Thank you for sharing about you and your daughter.
00:40:43.840 --> 00:40:49.920
And if you ever need some other insights around what you know her experiences might be like, just grappling, you know, wrestling with both cultures.
00:40:50.079 --> 00:40:53.039
I'd be to happy to connect again if you'd like.
00:40:53.280 --> 00:40:53.920
Oh, thank you.
00:40:54.000 --> 00:40:55.679
Yes, I need all the insights.
00:40:55.920 --> 00:40:58.719
I want everything there is to know, is what I want to know.
00:40:58.960 --> 00:40:59.840
Thank you so much.
00:41:00.559 --> 00:41:02.800
I'd be willing to make the sacrifice and meet you at your chateau.
00:41:03.440 --> 00:41:03.920
Would you please?
00:41:04.079 --> 00:41:05.760
Would you please come on over?
00:41:05.920 --> 00:41:08.079
You can have a retreat while you're there.
00:41:08.880 --> 00:41:09.599
Perfect.
00:41:09.760 --> 00:41:11.519
We're full of good ideas.
00:41:18.400 --> 00:41:22.000
I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did.
00:41:22.239 --> 00:41:32.159
As always, any links or notes mentioned can be found at PhineasRighthouse.com in the podcast section of our site or in the show notes below.
00:41:32.400 --> 00:41:40.079
And if you haven't connected with me personally, come find me on Instagram at PhineasWrighthouse and let me know you listened to this episode.
00:41:40.320 --> 00:41:42.000
I'd love to get to know you.
00:41:42.239 --> 00:41:44.239
Thank you for sharing this time with me.
00:41:44.400 --> 00:41:50.400
I know your days are full, and I'm really grateful that you chose to spend some of your precious time right here.
00:41:50.639 --> 00:41:55.519
Be sure to subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss any of these delightful conversations.
00:41:55.760 --> 00:41:57.599
I'll see you next week.
00:00:08.320 --> 00:00:14.880
Hi friends, this is Wendy Harrup, and welcome to the Say Yes to Yourself podcast.
00:00:15.039 --> 00:00:32.960
On the Say Yes to Yourself podcast, you'll hear stories from women just like us who are adding the practice of saying yes in their daily lives in big and small ways, and as a result are experiencing the truth that everybody wins when you say yes to yourself.
00:00:33.280 --> 00:00:40.880
Saying yes to yourself is a graceful unfolding, an intentional becoming of the very best version of you.
00:00:41.119 --> 00:00:50.159
It is my hope that in these conversations we are able to find our truth and be inspired and empowered to live our very best lives.
00:00:50.320 --> 00:00:57.759
I'm so excited to go on this journey with you, and I look forward to finding a bit of our own story in each other's.
00:01:25.519 --> 00:01:30.480
We have a group at the Cognac Jewelry School this week that are so fun.
00:01:30.799 --> 00:01:38.560
We are trying all sorts of new things in anticipation of the 2027 classes.
00:01:38.799 --> 00:01:47.439
So that's been a great time, and I love meeting these fabulous women that are saying yes to themselves in big and small ways.
00:01:47.840 --> 00:01:56.319
We have a woman who is 29, and we have a woman who is 78 this week.
00:01:56.560 --> 00:01:58.640
And I am here for it.
00:01:58.879 --> 00:02:00.319
I love all of this.
00:02:00.480 --> 00:02:15.439
I love these amazing women that I get to meet here in my beautiful life in France, my beautiful life in Massachusetts at the Phineas Wright House, and uh my beautiful world here with you on the podcast.
00:02:15.680 --> 00:02:28.479
In fact, today's guest is so special, such an amazing human, such, oh, I loved this conversation so much.
00:02:28.800 --> 00:02:45.439
And maybe I'm more aware because I am living in a country where I don't speak the language, but anyone up to really good things in their second language is just crown off to you, queen, because it is no joke.
00:02:45.599 --> 00:02:50.960
And I love that some of us are not letting that stop us.
00:02:51.120 --> 00:02:53.919
So today we have T Mai Shan.
00:02:54.719 --> 00:03:05.680
She is a PhD, the author of The Beauties of My So-Called Asian Life, a memoir exploring identity, belonging, and personal growth.
00:03:05.919 --> 00:03:15.919
Drawing from her experience as a refugee and daughter of immigrant parents, she shares a candid journey of navigating culture, faith, and self-discovery.
00:03:16.159 --> 00:03:27.840
Through themes of vulnerability, equity, and spirituality, her work reflects a deep commitment to bridging differences and embracing identity as an evolving process.
00:03:28.080 --> 00:03:36.080
Her storytelling offers both personal insight and a broader reflection of what it means to live authentically.
00:03:36.400 --> 00:03:44.719
I so enjoyed this conversation, and I cannot wait for you to have a lovely experience with T Mai Sheehan.
00:03:46.240 --> 00:03:50.080
T Mai, I'm so looking forward to this conversation.
00:03:50.240 --> 00:03:51.599
Thank you for being here.
00:03:51.919 --> 00:03:53.919
Thank you so much for having me as a guest.
00:03:54.159 --> 00:03:56.639
I'm so excited, looking forward to our chat as well.
00:03:57.199 --> 00:03:58.560
It's my great pleasure.
00:03:58.800 --> 00:04:00.319
I love this podcast.
00:04:00.479 --> 00:04:05.680
I love that I'm getting to meet such phenomenal women from all over the world.
00:04:05.840 --> 00:04:11.599
But as we discovered, quite a few in this beautiful little spot called Austin, Texas.
00:04:11.680 --> 00:04:17.600
I feel like a trip is in order since I already have so much to do when I arrive there.
00:04:17.920 --> 00:04:19.360
Definitely, definitely.
00:04:19.519 --> 00:04:20.720
Oh, that's so fun.
00:04:20.959 --> 00:04:26.399
Well, I would love to start by asking, how are you saying yes to yourself in this season?
00:04:26.800 --> 00:04:27.279
Goodness.
00:04:27.360 --> 00:04:33.920
You know, I mean, I think right now for me, this season that I'm in seems like it's been, you know, going on for a while.
00:04:34.160 --> 00:04:34.560
All right.
00:04:34.639 --> 00:04:38.000
So it doesn't happen overnight, but it's just, my goodness.
00:04:38.079 --> 00:04:41.199
I mean, there's so many ways that I could characterize that.
00:04:41.279 --> 00:04:54.079
But I think I'll start by just saying about a couple of years ago, I made the biggest pivot that I did not see coming, where I actually took a step away from work, from my full-time job to help take care of family.
00:04:54.240 --> 00:05:00.800
And then my family have at that time I had three family members in my immediate uh family who were going through some health issues.
00:05:00.959 --> 00:05:06.399
And it just got to a point, you know, where I wasn't able to really use work as an excuse to not be there.
00:05:06.639 --> 00:05:19.360
So I was doing a role, a job that I love that I thought I had finally arrived at, you know, I was in a place where I could hopefully make a difference in public education, which is my trade.
00:05:19.600 --> 00:05:27.120
And so it was hard to step away, but I just had so many signs that emerged that just said, this is what you've got to do for now.
00:05:27.360 --> 00:05:40.560
So when I stepped away, I realized, gosh, as much as I love helping my mom and dad and being present for family, I still really was sad about losing my worker identity because, you know, work was never a job.
00:05:40.639 --> 00:05:42.959
It was my calling, you know, to work in education.
00:05:43.040 --> 00:05:46.240
I mean, this is what you, you know, you've dedicated your life for.
00:05:46.480 --> 00:05:59.519
And so my husband said, Well, since you're not working right now and you're gonna be with mom and dad and spending time with them, why don't you use this time to do the things you wanted to pursue when you were gonna retire, which was to publish a book and to start my own business.
00:05:59.680 --> 00:06:02.079
And I went, okay, let me do that.
00:06:02.240 --> 00:06:03.759
I love him for you.
00:06:04.319 --> 00:06:05.360
Oh, he's amazing.
00:06:05.439 --> 00:06:06.800
Yeah, he is so inspiring.
00:06:06.959 --> 00:06:08.560
Yeah, he's he's my rock.
00:06:08.800 --> 00:06:10.000
But so I did that.
00:06:10.160 --> 00:06:15.759
I was able to somehow be present for a family, but also finally had a book that I had been sitting on.
00:06:15.839 --> 00:06:25.120
You know, the manuscript was just there, and I was just too afraid to do anything, too afraid to say yes to myself, to say that my stories were valid and worth sharing with the world.
00:06:25.360 --> 00:06:26.399
But I finally did it.
00:06:26.480 --> 00:06:28.560
So I got that book published and it's out there.
00:06:28.639 --> 00:06:35.360
And it's called The Beauties of My So-Called Asian Life: Vulnerability, Equity, and Spirituality.
00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:40.079
Essentially, it's an excavation of my identity and am I Vitese?
00:06:40.399 --> 00:06:41.279
Am I American?
00:06:41.519 --> 00:06:55.360
So it's a collection of personal stories about how those three things being vulnerable to build bridges across lines of difference, and also leaning into my spirituality, how all those things helped shape who I was and who I want to be going forward.
00:06:55.519 --> 00:07:06.720
So I'd say that was probably the biggest way I was saying yes to myself, really stepping back and saying, wait a minute, you know, all my life feels like narratives have been spun about me without me.
00:07:06.879 --> 00:07:18.560
And so this was my choice to tell my own story, my counter story to what all the folks out there were thinking about, you know, what immigrants are like or what Asian people are like or what Vietnamese women are like, et cetera, et cetera.
00:07:18.720 --> 00:07:23.600
So I was able to put that down on paper and put it into a book and get it published.
00:07:23.680 --> 00:07:25.279
And I'm super proud of that.
00:07:25.439 --> 00:07:30.959
And then also was able to uh start my own LLC as well, working in education.
00:07:31.040 --> 00:07:36.160
I've got about 25, 26 years in public education with all that experience doing different roles.
00:07:36.240 --> 00:07:42.000
I realized, gosh, it would be really great to work in the capacity of a speaker consultant.
00:07:42.079 --> 00:07:47.519
And I was doing a lot of speaking on the side, just you know, a lot of pro bono things, just being speakers and keynote speakers.
00:07:47.600 --> 00:07:57.360
I said, gosh, I'd really would love to be able to expand that and do that on a larger scale to really help make a difference and drive that systems change within educational organizations.
00:07:57.519 --> 00:07:58.319
So I started that.
00:07:58.480 --> 00:07:59.279
That's a little bit slow.
00:07:59.360 --> 00:08:10.160
I realized even though T Mai likes to do it all, I'm achiever is one of my top strengths trying to launch a business while publishing a book and promoting the book and taking care of family.
00:08:10.319 --> 00:08:11.279
It's a lot.
00:08:11.680 --> 00:08:12.079
Right.
00:08:12.319 --> 00:08:20.399
And you just said you were in the educational industry for over 25 years and you look like you're 25.
00:08:21.120 --> 00:08:28.639
So how you're also doing that with that beautiful skin, it's like I have a dreamy life and so many lines on my forehead.
00:08:28.879 --> 00:08:29.279
Thank you.
00:08:29.360 --> 00:08:30.800
I'm gonna give credit to my mom.
00:08:30.879 --> 00:08:34.639
My mom does not look her age, she's gonna be 80 next month, and she does not look 80.
00:08:34.799 --> 00:08:37.120
So wow, that's some really good genes.
00:08:37.360 --> 00:08:40.960
Amazing, and you have a PhD, you're just a queen.
00:08:41.120 --> 00:08:42.159
Good job, miss.
00:08:42.720 --> 00:08:44.080
Thank you, thank you so much.
00:08:44.480 --> 00:08:45.519
So amazing.
00:08:45.679 --> 00:08:50.799
I love it, and I'm really eager to hear anything that you want to share about the book.
00:08:50.960 --> 00:08:59.200
I'm very interested in your experience because I love people and I adore you already, and I already know how that feels.
00:08:59.519 --> 00:09:08.960
And my ex-husband and I adopted our daughter from China, she's 12 now, but she was two when we brought her home.
00:09:09.200 --> 00:09:14.639
And, you know, I know that you were not adopted, but you immigrated to another country.
00:09:14.799 --> 00:09:25.120
So holding these two cultures and navigating a place that is new, that there's so much resilience in that.
00:09:25.440 --> 00:09:51.759
And I don't know how to relate to the identity piece, but I want to hold sacred, generous space for her as she uh uh investigates and asks questions, and I will support her in whatever that looks like.
00:09:52.000 --> 00:10:06.399
Um but I'm I really appreciate all the insight that you have and your beautiful, generous willingness to share that obviously here today on the show, but in your book.
00:10:06.639 --> 00:10:07.360
So thank you.
00:10:07.519 --> 00:10:09.840
It's brave, big, important work.
00:10:10.320 --> 00:10:10.639
Sure.
00:10:10.720 --> 00:10:18.639
Well, first of all, just hearing you share about your experience adopting a baby from Titan, that just makes me think, oh, our conversation is so timely.
00:10:18.960 --> 00:10:19.279
Yes.
00:10:20.080 --> 00:10:20.480
But thank you.
00:10:20.559 --> 00:10:22.000
I mean, what a selfless act, right?
00:10:22.080 --> 00:10:24.080
To be able to adopt a baby um in need.
00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:24.960
So yeah.
00:10:25.279 --> 00:10:27.519
Well, she uh rescued me right back.
00:10:27.759 --> 00:10:30.480
Yeah, mutual, mutual, yeah.
00:10:30.639 --> 00:10:31.840
Thank you for sharing that.
00:10:32.000 --> 00:10:38.960
Yeah, and you know, I I I say that I'm I'm not biracial because both of my parents are Vietnamese, but I talk a lot about being bicultural.
00:10:39.919 --> 00:10:44.159
You know, I was born in Vietnam, but I left when I was two and a half.
00:10:44.399 --> 00:10:54.240
So I didn't really, you know, have a lot of experience living in Vietnam, but coming over here, being raised by Vietnamese parents in the United States.
00:10:54.320 --> 00:10:58.320
So you still have that mix of Eastern culture with Western culture.
00:10:58.480 --> 00:11:01.200
And you know, we came over, my mom and dad, they didn't know anything.
00:11:01.279 --> 00:11:04.480
They thought the best thing that they could do for their children was to acclimate.
00:11:04.639 --> 00:11:08.320
So we did everything we could to try to sound American.
00:11:08.399 --> 00:11:22.240
And so growing up, the language piece, you know, so that's another area that's you know pretty interesting because growing up, my mom and dad didn't want us to sound different when we started school, so they forced us to speak English as soon as we learned it.
00:11:22.399 --> 00:11:25.519
And so they said, watch American TV as you're learning.
00:11:25.600 --> 00:11:27.679
You and your sisters talk to each other in English.
00:11:27.840 --> 00:11:31.200
We'll speak to you in Vietnamese, but we prefer that you respond in English.
00:11:31.279 --> 00:11:33.600
That way you're really just you know immersed in it.
00:11:33.759 --> 00:11:37.679
And so now as an adult, I cannot speak my first language.
00:11:37.840 --> 00:11:48.000
So they were doing something they thought was right, raising us, but in the end, it ended up, you know, taking away a little bit of my culture, my identity, because I can't speak Vietnamese.
00:11:48.240 --> 00:11:53.440
And so I write a lot about in my book about this idea of being caught in the space in between.
00:11:54.320 --> 00:11:59.600
And um, there's research and stories out there about folks that have that hyphen right in their identity.
00:11:59.759 --> 00:12:03.519
So whether they're, you know, Vietnamese American or Asian American.
00:12:03.679 --> 00:12:17.840
And the idea is that this hyphen kind of just, you know, you're trying to figure out who am I, who should I, which identity should I identify with, which is gonna be maybe safe for me, which is gonna be the one where I belong in any given situation, which is fluid, right?
00:12:17.919 --> 00:12:20.799
Because it just really depends on the context and your surroundings.
00:12:20.879 --> 00:12:25.120
And so all these questions were always just, you know, stirring around in my head as I was growing up.
00:12:25.200 --> 00:12:28.720
I said, I don't know if I'm Vietnamese, I don't know if I'm American.
00:12:28.879 --> 00:12:32.399
You know, I've lived here for, you know, 50 plus years of my life.
00:12:32.480 --> 00:12:34.000
So I'd like to say I'm American.
00:12:34.159 --> 00:12:40.159
And I write about this in my book, Wendy, where I went to go get my driver's license renewed when I was 50.
00:12:40.240 --> 00:12:42.399
And they said, can we have your alien number?
00:12:42.559 --> 00:12:44.000
And I went, my alien number.
00:12:44.080 --> 00:12:45.440
And then I went, Oh, that's right.
00:12:45.759 --> 00:12:49.600
I have naturalization papers, and so I have an alien number.
00:12:49.679 --> 00:12:53.600
And so that kind of gives you this feeling like, wait a minute, I feel like this is my home.
00:12:53.840 --> 00:12:54.159
Right.
00:12:54.399 --> 00:13:02.960
At the same time when I went back to Vietnam in 2015, 40 years after I left, I was excited to go back to my homeland and visit where I was born.
00:13:03.120 --> 00:13:07.440
And then when I got there, I thought I knew enough Vietnamese to shop and negotiate.
00:13:07.519 --> 00:13:07.919
Oh, sure.
00:13:08.240 --> 00:13:08.799
Struggled.
00:13:08.960 --> 00:13:13.039
And the ladies of the shops at the market said, You're not Vietnamese, you can't speak it.
00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:15.360
And I went, Oh, but this is my home, you know.
00:13:15.519 --> 00:13:19.440
So you have that sort of this existential thing, like, well, what am I?
00:13:19.679 --> 00:13:26.799
But as part of saying yes to myself, that's why I felt like I had to write this book and get all these stories down and just make sense of it.
00:13:26.960 --> 00:13:30.320
And ultimately what I realized was I don't have to choose.
00:13:30.879 --> 00:13:40.080
So there's a lot of talk about, you know, are you gonna just live in the hyphen and accept that you're sort of navigating these two cultures, or do you want to empower yourself and live on the hyphen?
00:13:40.480 --> 00:13:41.600
Ooh, beautiful.
00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:47.120
I did a presentation recently at a women's conference where I spoke about that space in between.
00:13:47.200 --> 00:13:57.840
I said, you know, let's let's help folks who are bicultural or biracial, figure out how to feel empowered and live on a hyphen and really say, you know what, we don't have to choose this or that.
00:13:58.000 --> 00:14:04.879
We can be a beautiful synthesis of both identities, and that makes that makes us even more unique, more special in this world.
00:14:05.440 --> 00:14:07.840
Oh, all of that is so beautiful.
00:14:08.080 --> 00:14:18.240
Now you mentioned that when your husband gave you the fabulous idea to publish the book that you had been sitting on the manuscript.
00:14:18.399 --> 00:14:18.720
Yes.
00:14:18.879 --> 00:14:23.919
So when did you start writing this and how long did that take you?
00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:27.759
I want to say I started writing it in the summer of 2022.
00:14:28.000 --> 00:14:28.320
Okay.
00:14:28.559 --> 00:14:31.440
Probably took me, it probably took me just about a year to write.
00:14:31.679 --> 00:14:32.320
That's amazing.
00:14:32.480 --> 00:14:34.240
I will, my husband was very supportive.
00:14:34.399 --> 00:14:36.960
I was able to take, you know, three-day retreats.
00:14:37.039 --> 00:14:42.639
I call them writing retreats, where I would just go to different bed and breakfasts and I would just write, right, right.
00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:47.279
And so somehow the book in a year was finished, but I was just so scared.
00:14:47.360 --> 00:14:50.320
It's scary to put yourself out there and put your ideas out there.
00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:57.120
But I kept telling myself, you know, T Ma, you're not, you're, you're promoting you, but really you're promoting your stories and your lived experiences.
00:14:57.279 --> 00:14:57.440
Right.
00:14:57.759 --> 00:14:58.480
Are valid.
00:14:58.639 --> 00:15:10.480
And if I could, if I could connect with more people and help them feel better about themselves and have help them say yes to themselves if they felt they were in any kind of similar situation, then it was worth it to put it out there.
00:15:10.720 --> 00:15:14.879
And so when I quit my full-time job, I said, okay, I'm I'm gonna do this.
00:15:15.039 --> 00:15:16.799
So I did one final retreat.
00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:23.919
I went back and reread everything, edited it, added some things, you know, updated it and sent it off.
00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:26.240
And and voila, the book is available.
00:15:26.399 --> 00:15:27.679
So it's been amazing.
00:15:27.759 --> 00:15:36.000
And and hearing feedback, not just from friends that nobi, sure, but also from strangers that have read the books that have, you know, it's resonated with them in in certain ways.
00:15:36.159 --> 00:15:48.320
But yeah, I mean, there's so much involved there because it's even just you know what it's like to be have been a refugee, an immigrant, you know, where a lot of immigrants they choose to come here where we were refugees, we were kind of didn't have a choice, you know.
00:15:48.399 --> 00:15:51.200
We left right at the end of the Saigon, the Vietnam War.
00:15:51.440 --> 00:15:54.559
And so, you know, a lot of circumstances wrapped up in that.
00:15:54.720 --> 00:15:55.120
Yeah.
00:15:55.279 --> 00:15:56.159
But what a blessing.
00:15:56.320 --> 00:16:03.840
I tell my mom and dad, I said, you know, really, I owe you two lives because you gave, you know, brought me into the world in Vietnam, and then you brought us over here to America.
00:16:03.919 --> 00:16:09.600
Risk literally risked your life, and it's we have this new life that we would not have had if we had stayed back there.
00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:11.440
Oh, that's so beautiful.
00:16:11.600 --> 00:16:13.759
They must be so proud of you.
00:16:14.080 --> 00:16:14.639
I think so.
00:16:14.799 --> 00:16:15.440
I think so now.
00:16:15.519 --> 00:16:20.399
So if you read the book, there's some stories in there about how T Might went middle child rebellion.
00:16:20.639 --> 00:16:20.960
Sure.
00:16:21.200 --> 00:16:27.039
So there were times where maybe they weren't as proud, but yeah, I think now, you know, at this age, yeah, they have they have shared that.
00:16:27.120 --> 00:16:27.360
Yeah.
00:16:27.519 --> 00:16:27.600
Yeah.
00:16:27.919 --> 00:16:28.240
Of course.
00:16:28.799 --> 00:16:30.639
Life kept saying, when do I get to call you Dr.
00:16:30.720 --> 00:16:31.039
Dong?
00:16:31.120 --> 00:16:31.600
When Dr.
00:16:31.679 --> 00:16:32.000
Dong.
00:16:32.159 --> 00:16:34.960
And so I did I did make that a dream for him.
00:16:35.279 --> 00:16:36.399
That's so great.
00:16:36.639 --> 00:16:38.879
I love that you were rebellious.
00:16:39.840 --> 00:16:43.679
Would that have been tolerated if you were still in Vietnam?
00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:44.799
Probably not.
00:16:44.879 --> 00:16:48.480
And I don't think I would even deign to have even tried to do the things that I did.
00:16:49.679 --> 00:16:52.559
Because it I was influenced, right, by the culture that I'm living in.
00:16:52.639 --> 00:16:57.759
So it made me feel I was a could be a little bit, you know, more of a naughty, yes.
00:16:58.000 --> 00:16:58.559
That too.
00:16:58.960 --> 00:16:59.840
It's so interesting.
00:16:59.919 --> 00:17:06.400
And the reason I ask is because Amelia is 12 and she's not naughty, but she is having her own experience.
00:17:06.559 --> 00:17:06.880
Yeah.
00:17:07.279 --> 00:17:24.240
And I love that I'm aware enough and present enough to celebrate that how she shows up in a room is not on brand for how I show up in a room.
00:17:24.400 --> 00:17:27.279
And I like that she is having her own experience.
00:17:27.440 --> 00:17:52.559
And so I'm just now like super fascinated about how parents are raising their young children, um, especially daughters, and letting them have a voice, letting them have their own experience, of course, having guardrails, but we're the safe place to land, and controlling behavior is not providing safety.
00:17:53.039 --> 00:18:01.039
It's I think setting us up for an unfortunate experience as adults as well.
00:18:01.359 --> 00:18:07.039
We wouldn't know what to do if we've never experienced adversity, you know, when we're faced with it, we just wouldn't know what to do.
00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:09.119
So yeah, I think I agree with you 100%.
00:18:10.079 --> 00:18:11.039
Well, thank you.
00:18:11.440 --> 00:18:12.640
Stay as long as you like.
00:18:12.799 --> 00:18:13.920
No, I'm just kidding.
00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:16.400
Please disagree with me when you disagree.
00:18:16.640 --> 00:18:17.599
I celebrate it.
00:18:17.680 --> 00:18:18.240
I do.
00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:28.240
Um, what are you finding that um strangers are providing feedback around the book that um is surprising to you?
00:18:28.640 --> 00:18:35.440
Yeah, I think the fact that there are sharing of how they resonated with some of the mistakes that I've made.
00:18:35.599 --> 00:18:36.160
Ooh, interesting.
00:18:36.319 --> 00:18:40.000
So when you make mistakes in the past, you think like you're the only one, you're so hard on yourself.
00:18:40.319 --> 00:18:40.960
How can I done that?
00:18:41.039 --> 00:18:44.160
And there was so much shame, you know, that that clouds that.
00:18:44.319 --> 00:18:47.519
It's been wonderful to hear that other folks have made the same mistakes.
00:18:47.839 --> 00:18:50.960
And so that was surprising to me because you kind of get in that bubble, right?
00:18:51.039 --> 00:18:58.240
And think, you know, there's no one else that could have done these things like I did growing up, just being so oblivious and and so self-absorbed.
00:18:58.319 --> 00:19:02.559
And then when you hear other folks have done it too, you know, it makes you feel more validated.
00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:08.799
But that was the spirituality piece of the book that was so important because it allowed me to learn how to forgive myself.
00:19:08.960 --> 00:19:10.799
And you know this too, probably, Wendy, right?
00:19:10.880 --> 00:19:15.440
We're always so good at forgiving everybody else, but we're so hard at forgiving our own self.
00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:18.640
And so definitely learned how to do that for sure.
00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:23.200
How was that practice for you and what supports were in place for that?
00:19:23.519 --> 00:19:28.720
Yeah, I think finally realizing that I am a religious person, to be quite honest.
00:19:29.039 --> 00:19:32.480
My mom was Buddhist and my dad Catholic.
00:19:32.720 --> 00:19:33.039
Okay.
00:19:33.279 --> 00:19:36.079
Another example of how your upbringing has such a huge influence, right?
00:19:36.160 --> 00:19:38.000
How you grow up and the decisions you make.
00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:42.079
And and but even though that was the case, my dad never forced us to go to church.
00:19:42.160 --> 00:19:45.039
We went just on special occasions to honor our ancestors.
00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:47.839
And likewise, my mom never forced us to go to the temple.
00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:51.680
She would just tell us some things here and there that were, you know, rituals that they did.
00:19:51.839 --> 00:19:54.799
And they hoped that when I grew up, I would just decide for myself.
00:19:54.960 --> 00:19:59.759
But I said, if I'm not educated on either or, I can't really make an informed decision.
00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:06.079
And so ultimately, just through this experience of trying to figure out, you know, am I spiritual, am I religious, is there different?
00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:13.039
I realized, you know, that voice of my dad talking about God, God, God really did take hold of my heart.
00:20:13.119 --> 00:20:15.279
And I just there always was a God.
00:20:15.519 --> 00:20:21.519
But a nonconformist in me said, Well, I don't need to go to a building that's called church to show my faith.
00:20:21.680 --> 00:20:24.640
I can have my own relationship with God.
00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:30.079
And my husband, when I met him, he said, just come to church with me.
00:20:30.319 --> 00:20:34.559
And I went and it just, oh my goodness, the community and the fellowship.
00:20:34.640 --> 00:20:36.559
I've never experienced people like that.
00:20:36.880 --> 00:20:44.799
And moving away from that Catholic church into a Christian church really did help me feel less ashamed of the things that I had done.
00:20:44.960 --> 00:20:54.400
That big piece of being able to recognize that I deserve to go and be in community with other folks who may have made the mistakes I had to.
00:20:55.200 --> 00:20:56.240
I did belong there.
00:20:56.400 --> 00:21:02.480
And so that was really to me instrumental in being able to forgive myself and move forward.
00:21:03.359 --> 00:21:04.799
That's so beautiful.
00:21:05.039 --> 00:21:09.599
And community in church is such a gift.
00:21:09.920 --> 00:21:19.519
I um have not found that in Massachusetts, but my um I lived in California for 45 years before I moved here.
00:21:19.839 --> 00:21:25.680
And my last church was it just was that.
00:21:34.640 --> 00:21:44.000
It changes everything and the difference between your experience as a kid in church and then your experience as an adult in church.
00:21:44.319 --> 00:21:47.599
It can be everything you want it to be.
00:21:47.920 --> 00:21:48.960
And I love what you said.
00:21:49.039 --> 00:21:51.200
I love that expression that you use is life giving.
00:21:51.440 --> 00:21:54.480
I have never felt the inner peace that I have now.
00:21:54.720 --> 00:21:56.240
Oh, that's so beautiful.
00:21:56.319 --> 00:21:57.839
And you know what I love?
00:21:58.240 --> 00:21:59.759
I have never had the inner peace.
00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:04.079
That I feel now since I stopped going to church.
00:22:04.720 --> 00:22:05.119
Wow.
00:22:05.359 --> 00:22:06.720
Isn't that amazing?
00:22:07.119 --> 00:22:15.279
And isn't it beautiful that we both get to have our own experience and that the result of it is inner peace from God?
00:22:15.759 --> 00:22:16.880
Yes, I love it.
00:22:16.960 --> 00:22:17.279
Yes.
00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:18.480
I love it too.
00:22:18.640 --> 00:22:19.839
It's so good.
00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:25.440
And today's A Course in Miracles is the peace of God shines within me.
00:22:25.680 --> 00:22:36.240
I just love that the way I believe God provides everything we need right when we need it.
00:22:36.559 --> 00:22:39.200
And it's there waiting for us.
00:22:39.440 --> 00:22:47.440
And when we open ourselves up to communicating, to allowing that in.
00:22:47.680 --> 00:22:51.359
And you know, I grew up believing in God.
00:22:51.599 --> 00:22:54.960
I am still a grown-up who believes in God.
00:22:55.200 --> 00:23:06.240
But what I've softened around is what works for me, works for me, and what works for other people works for other people.
00:23:06.319 --> 00:23:08.960
And I don't care if they call it Joe.
00:23:09.200 --> 00:23:10.880
It doesn't matter.
00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:19.279
And I love the freedom in that because it's none of my damn business.
00:23:19.599 --> 00:23:29.359
If someone is finding inner peace with a higher power and calling it something different than me, I think that's so beautiful.
00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:34.160
And I love that it seems like that's what your experience has been as well.
00:23:34.319 --> 00:23:40.559
And you're finding it in a room with a bunch of fabulous people that you can actually hang out with regularly.
00:23:40.720 --> 00:23:42.160
That's so gorgeous.
00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:42.799
Sure.
00:23:42.880 --> 00:23:43.119
Yeah.
00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:52.880
I mean, you know, just looking like I do, you know, growing up and my experiences in school, I always gravitated towards folks who are considered the minority because that felt safe to me.
00:23:53.200 --> 00:24:13.759
And gosh, one of the most profound ways that I said yes to myself was to the research that I did when I was working on my doctorate, my dissertation, I realized that, you know, I had these mental models that were so limiting because experiences that I had where a lot of white children were calling me names and, you know, white people were saying these things.
00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:21.119
But I grew up instead of being angry and pushing people away, it created the opposite effect where I wanted to love people more.
00:24:21.359 --> 00:24:24.720
I wanted to befriend people more that looked different.
00:24:24.960 --> 00:24:34.880
And so I, one of the things I'm really proud of is just having friends that, you know, are from all ages, all generations, all shapes, all sizes, all races.
00:24:35.359 --> 00:24:44.880
I mean, to me, saying you say yes to yourself, knowing that, you know, you want to expand those mental models so that you can't have an enriching life.
00:24:45.039 --> 00:24:48.640
To me, when you say yes to yourself, you're saying yes to all of this, right?
00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:50.720
All of this beauty that the world has to offer.
00:24:51.440 --> 00:25:02.960
So yeah, the equity piece was I chose that as one of the beauties in my book because it really did help me realize, well, wait a minute, T Mai, you're saying all this stuff about how, you know, and and I worked as a chief equity officer.
00:25:03.039 --> 00:25:04.799
That was my last full-time gig.
00:25:04.960 --> 00:25:09.359
So if this is what I'm preaching, how am I also doing the practice?
00:25:09.440 --> 00:25:10.720
How am I also living it?
00:25:10.880 --> 00:25:24.640
And so I always had this idea that as an immigrant coming over here, I had to constantly prove myself, prove to people that didn't look like me, that were white, that you know what, you did a good thing allowing me to come in your country, you know, the military that brought me over here, my family.
00:25:24.799 --> 00:25:25.599
I deserve to be here.
00:25:25.759 --> 00:25:26.960
I always had to prove myself.
00:25:27.039 --> 00:25:30.319
And finally I just realized wait, I don't have to prove anything to myself.
00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:32.559
God built me this way, God loves me.
00:25:32.640 --> 00:25:37.279
And and I had to just, you know, learn how to lean into that and just be proud of who I am.
00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:56.880
And I love how leaning into that did open up this ability to love everybody else as well, and not lecturing them every time they do whatever they're gonna do, because that just models more rejection.
00:25:57.119 --> 00:25:58.559
And you're modeling love.
00:25:58.640 --> 00:26:02.400
You're it's never gonna go wrong, and it never leads you wrong.
00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:02.880
Yeah.
00:26:03.119 --> 00:26:11.440
And you know, working in public education, as you can imagine, it's not like I can go around and preach and you know, right, but you can love.
00:26:11.680 --> 00:26:11.920
Right.
00:26:12.079 --> 00:26:15.279
I can love and I can model, you know, right.
00:26:15.440 --> 00:26:17.359
I can model what it's like to be a Christian.
00:26:17.519 --> 00:26:21.119
I don't have to tell folks, you know, your God is not as good as my God.
00:26:21.200 --> 00:26:24.400
You know, I'm grateful for all the different faiths that are out there.
00:26:24.559 --> 00:26:34.240
I'm grateful to, you know, for the people that I encounter that, you know, have something bigger themselves that guides them, that you know, fuels them and and gives them that hope and inspiration.
00:26:34.319 --> 00:26:39.440
So just exactly like you said, it doesn't all look the same, but it provides that same feeling, right?
00:26:39.519 --> 00:26:41.279
That inner peace, that inner love.
00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:46.559
And it is so evidenced by just spending time in your presence.
00:26:46.640 --> 00:26:51.279
And it's evidenced by spending time in other people's presence as well.
00:26:51.440 --> 00:26:59.440
It's like that's that's where the connection comes, that's where the unity comes, is that we're joined together by love.
00:26:59.680 --> 00:27:08.640
And if someone's not recognizing that in themselves or in their surroundings, we don't recognize it in each other.
00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:10.480
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
00:27:10.559 --> 00:27:13.440
Yeah, and that's what I'm trying to do with my business.
00:27:13.680 --> 00:27:16.319
So if I'm able to talk about it, please say yes.
00:27:16.559 --> 00:27:19.440
So the business is called innervate to educate.
00:27:19.599 --> 00:27:22.319
So not innovate, but inner I-N-N-E-R.
00:27:22.720 --> 00:27:23.039
Love it.
00:27:23.200 --> 00:27:33.440
I came with that because I came up with that name because there's so much that I believe has to work has to come from inside before we can transform the world around us.
00:27:33.839 --> 00:27:38.480
And so there's a lot of that growing up of, you know, when I grew up, I didn't want to have kids, I didn't want to get married.
00:27:38.559 --> 00:27:41.359
I said, oh no, I'm gonna change the world, make it a better place.
00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:47.519
And then I realized, well, actually to do that, I need to be willing to change from within.
00:27:47.759 --> 00:27:50.000
And that idea was always there in the back of my head.
00:27:50.160 --> 00:28:07.680
But, you know, as I grew up and, you know, now into my 50s, I realized, gosh, that is still so prominent, such a prevailing idea still, that all the change we want to see around us, it has to start within us because I see so much, you know, canceling and finger pointing and blaming.
00:28:07.759 --> 00:28:10.799
It's like, well, you know, that work actually has to start from within.
00:28:10.960 --> 00:28:34.000
So the idea from the business is that, and I really, my goal is to work with educational organizations, you know, anywhere where folks are serving students and really just work with the teachers and educational leaders and say, you know what, we do a lot of good things in school districts, in education organizations to change policy and practice so that allows students to reach their full potential.
00:28:34.240 --> 00:28:43.599
But if you really think about systems change, the things that propel us to make certain decisions come from our hearts, our minds, our lived experiences.
00:28:43.839 --> 00:28:51.759
And that we have to be willing to step into an educational space and go, wait a minute, what am I bringing to this space because of my lived experience?
00:28:51.839 --> 00:28:56.400
It's either limiting students or allowing them to excel.
00:28:56.720 --> 00:28:59.680
And, you know, a lot of those mental models aren't conscious to us.
00:28:59.839 --> 00:29:09.759
And how do we be willing to innovate to really look within so that we can be there for children and see that every child has the potential to be successful?
00:29:10.079 --> 00:29:16.000
Oh my gosh, it's a gorgeous mission and a beautiful vision statement.
00:29:16.480 --> 00:29:20.880
How in the world is this working?
00:29:21.200 --> 00:29:23.039
How are you implementing this?
00:29:23.200 --> 00:29:34.880
Because of course it's beautiful, and I can imagine the teachers that resonate with why they became educators and why they want to do what they want to do.
00:29:35.119 --> 00:29:51.680
But there are also people that really love systems that they think there's nothing broken about it, and there's nothing that should change, and it's just this generation's got it all wrong and all the things.
00:29:51.920 --> 00:29:53.920
So, what's your experience like?
00:29:54.559 --> 00:29:58.640
So, to be very honest with you, the business is still very in its emergent stage.
00:29:58.880 --> 00:29:59.279
Awesome.
00:29:59.519 --> 00:30:07.680
When I had first started out, I had a couple of clients and did some work there, but at that time the business was really branded around DEI solutions, sure.
00:30:07.759 --> 00:30:09.680
Okay, diversity, equity, and inclusion.
00:30:09.759 --> 00:30:15.039
And in Texas, unfortunately, about gosh, was it spring of last year?
00:30:15.200 --> 00:30:22.240
We had some legislation come out that now anything that looks and sounds or feels like DEI is actually illegal now in public schools.
00:30:22.799 --> 00:30:26.240
And so that really, you know, gave my business pause.
00:30:26.319 --> 00:30:30.160
And I went, okay, I'm not even able to do this because it's not legal.
00:30:30.400 --> 00:30:33.200
That gives me pause about Texas, not about the business.
00:30:33.599 --> 00:30:34.640
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:30:35.200 --> 00:30:36.480
So yeah, exactly.
00:30:36.640 --> 00:30:38.960
And so it was it was really hard, you know.
00:30:39.359 --> 00:30:40.640
I had to really stop and think.
00:30:40.799 --> 00:30:42.400
It's like, can I do this work?
00:30:42.559 --> 00:30:42.799
Right.
00:30:43.039 --> 00:30:47.599
Are there even people who believe that this is even possible to do this work?
00:30:47.759 --> 00:30:51.599
And anytime I thought about letting go of that idea, I couldn't.
00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:58.240
And so actually I went back into the middle school classroom last August, just working part-time.
00:30:58.319 --> 00:31:07.279
And I said, you know, if I'm doing all this work wanting to support teachers and educational leaders, let me go back to the classroom and see if my solutions I'm offering are still viable.
00:31:07.440 --> 00:31:12.720
And then because I hadn't taught in 15 years, I was doing a lot of different leadership roles in the district.
00:31:12.880 --> 00:31:16.400
And just working there this year made me realize, gosh, this is still so needed.
00:31:16.640 --> 00:31:21.119
It's still so needed because the students that we have in the classroom are growingly diverse.
00:31:21.279 --> 00:31:33.039
And we want to make sure that, you know, teachers like me that walk into the classroom, no matter what that student looks like, how they learn, how they speak, what they speak, that, you know, we know that they can all be successful.
00:31:33.279 --> 00:31:42.880
And so even though it was challenging to go back and teach middle school students at my age, I can imagine it's challenging raising a middle schooler, and that's only one of them.
00:31:43.359 --> 00:31:44.240
12 years old, yes.
00:31:44.400 --> 00:31:46.160
And so, but it's been an amazing experience.
00:31:46.240 --> 00:31:51.759
If anything, it really validates more of this business model and the vision and the mission and why I want to move forward.
00:31:51.839 --> 00:31:54.000
So I'm I'm hoping that, you know.
00:31:54.319 --> 00:31:57.519
So over spring break, I love doing solo trips.
00:31:57.599 --> 00:31:59.200
That's another way I say yes to myself.
00:31:59.279 --> 00:32:00.640
I love doing solo trips.
00:32:01.039 --> 00:32:06.640
Get away to myself, like whether there are road trips that I'm doing by myself or I'm flying out of the country by myself.
00:32:06.799 --> 00:32:08.319
My husband is so cool with it.
00:32:08.400 --> 00:32:09.119
And I love it.
00:32:09.200 --> 00:32:14.480
I love that you did writing retreats because when I travel, I lead culinary trips to France.
00:32:14.640 --> 00:32:22.559
And when I'm traveling, I offer my bed and breakfast as a for creatives in residents.
00:32:22.720 --> 00:32:33.680
So if someone's working on their book or wants to paint or do photography or write music or whatever they want to do, um, then they stay for two weeks at a time for that beautiful pattern interrupt.
00:32:33.920 --> 00:32:36.000
So I love so much that you did that.
00:32:36.240 --> 00:32:36.799
That's awesome.
00:32:36.880 --> 00:32:37.200
Thank you.
00:32:37.279 --> 00:32:43.680
Well, I so I went to Maine for about four days and I said, Why are you stalled in this business idea?
00:32:44.000 --> 00:32:53.119
And it really made me realize that since I hadn't been working for a couple of years, losing that worker identity, I lost also my confidence.
00:32:53.359 --> 00:32:58.079
And so it was really scary to think about putting those ideas out there again for this business.
00:32:58.240 --> 00:33:08.000
And so getting away for this few days and really sitting down and working through my business plan, it really made me feel even more re-inspired to move forward with this work.
00:33:08.079 --> 00:33:13.119
And so that's why I say it's emergent because it's it's a setback, but oh, it's evolving.
00:33:13.200 --> 00:33:15.039
I feel like it's a catapult.
00:33:15.359 --> 00:33:16.720
Um, I have a question.
00:33:16.880 --> 00:33:21.680
First of all, is your business does it have to only be in Texas?
00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:24.160
It does not have to be only in Texas, right?
00:33:24.240 --> 00:33:33.279
And I bet that there are some other school districts that would very much welcome what you have to offer and bring.
00:33:33.359 --> 00:33:45.039
And of course, like that creates a movement and that creates licensing and franchising almost of your idea into separate school districts.
00:33:45.440 --> 00:34:04.720
And I was also wondering if you have already, I don't see it in your bio, but or if you're considering a podcast because it's another way to get this word out that travels immeasurably farther than we imagine.
00:34:05.119 --> 00:34:13.920
But of course, this is not just for US-based school systems, like this is for the children of the world.
00:34:14.239 --> 00:34:27.920
And I think that these things that can feel like setbacks help us see that, oh, it felt really big, but this is showing me that that's really small.
00:34:28.159 --> 00:34:31.360
And this is where I can go now.
00:34:31.599 --> 00:34:35.760
And the only way that I could go there is because this door shut.
00:34:35.920 --> 00:34:40.880
Um, I just think it's very, very, very exciting what's in store for you.
00:34:41.199 --> 00:34:41.519
Thank you.
00:34:41.599 --> 00:34:43.679
And thank you for sharing those ideas with me too.
00:34:43.840 --> 00:34:44.400
Absolutely.
00:34:44.559 --> 00:34:48.559
I definitely know that I need to spend time doing a little bit more marketing and getting it out there.
00:34:48.880 --> 00:34:50.639
I am full of good ideas, Queen.
00:34:50.960 --> 00:35:05.119
And I am telling you, really easy marketing is a podcast because you're speaking about what you love and you already have all of the content because it is your business.
00:35:05.440 --> 00:35:06.960
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:08.000
Welcome.
00:35:08.239 --> 00:35:09.119
It's so fun.
00:35:09.280 --> 00:35:26.480
Okay, so in this dreamy idea of this emergent business, that let's just say, wouldn't it be nice if this became something that could integrate nationally and internationally?
00:35:27.840 --> 00:35:29.840
What would that feel like for you?
00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:31.199
What would that look like?
00:35:31.840 --> 00:35:35.280
I think that there would be a lot of cross-sector collaboration.
00:35:35.519 --> 00:35:36.639
That's what I would love.
00:35:36.800 --> 00:35:48.000
And so I'm not sure if you're familiar with the inner development goals IDG, but there's a movement already happening in Europe around the work of transforming systems around us by starting within.
00:35:48.239 --> 00:35:52.719
So it's moving from the the I to the we to the systems change.
00:35:52.960 --> 00:36:06.400
And so I had been plugged into them, trying to attend some of their workshops when I can, when the time change works for me, but uh definitely know that there are some IDG, what they call hubs here in the state.
00:36:06.480 --> 00:36:10.400
So trying to just stay plugged in and really, it's all to me, it's all about connections.
00:36:10.559 --> 00:36:10.880
Right.
00:36:11.119 --> 00:36:16.239
I mean, I can't, even though I'm a solopreneur, there's no way that I can execute this vision on my own.
00:36:16.400 --> 00:36:17.199
I do know that.
00:36:17.360 --> 00:36:21.280
So I've definitely got to just plug into my connections and try to push that out there.
00:36:21.440 --> 00:36:22.800
But what would it feel like?
00:36:23.039 --> 00:36:39.679
Gosh, it would just feel, I mean, it would feel amazing, you know, for lack of a better word, you know, feel like I'm making a difference and that folks are able to see a shift in their thinking in some way as a result of going inside and doing this deep, deep work.
00:36:40.320 --> 00:36:47.440
And the students, you know, that if I can be very practical, you know, education leaders want to see a change in their data, right?
00:36:47.519 --> 00:36:53.280
So that we can see performance data showing that all student groups are are excelling and doing well.
00:36:53.599 --> 00:36:58.639
And that's what I really would hope to be able to, you know, see in terms of of data.
00:36:58.800 --> 00:37:02.079
But there's also that affect part, I think, that's so huge too.
00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:06.960
When you walk into a classroom, you see and you feel that every student there feels like they belong.
00:37:07.760 --> 00:37:13.679
Every student is being called on because they're seen as someone that could have the right answer that knows.
00:37:14.480 --> 00:37:29.679
So it's both, you know, it's the affect piece of being able to make a difference in the in children's lives, but also um being able to set them up for success so that they can reach their full potential and go on to have their own podcasts or write their own books or start their own business, what have you.
00:37:30.239 --> 00:37:47.519
Which is so beautiful because as a result of somebody else doing their own inner work, those kids get the benefit, which holds space for them to do their own inner work, which then they go home and the ripple effect is so beautiful.
00:37:47.840 --> 00:37:48.159
Yes.
00:37:48.320 --> 00:37:53.280
And I remember when I first started out, I was going to so many small business networking events.
00:37:53.360 --> 00:37:54.239
I mean, so many.
00:37:54.400 --> 00:37:59.199
And I had folks tell me, oh, you should expand and work with, you know, corporate as well, not just education.
00:37:59.519 --> 00:38:02.480
And I was a little bit, you know, attracted by that, but said, you know what?
00:38:02.559 --> 00:38:06.639
To me, education is the heart of where we create, right?
00:38:07.199 --> 00:38:14.159
Out into the world, students who are going to be adults, who are going to be, you know, contributing citizens globally.
00:38:14.320 --> 00:38:17.519
And so I still feel like my heart is just it's with education in it.
00:38:17.679 --> 00:38:17.920
Right.
00:38:18.079 --> 00:38:24.480
And you can have corporate sponsors, corporate sponsors, because those kids are gonna end up being employees.
00:38:25.440 --> 00:38:26.559
So you'll get it.
00:38:26.719 --> 00:38:27.280
Yeah, yeah.
00:38:27.360 --> 00:38:30.639
So there's there's opportunity for partnership and collaboration for sure.
00:38:30.800 --> 00:38:38.800
But in terms of the actual core of the work, I'd see that being still with it's so beautiful and expansive, and I'm so excited for you.
00:38:39.119 --> 00:38:39.599
Thank you.
00:38:39.760 --> 00:38:40.639
Thank you so much.
00:38:40.719 --> 00:38:41.039
Yeah.
00:38:41.199 --> 00:38:44.239
And the long-term dream is to have an actual brick and mortar.
00:38:44.320 --> 00:38:50.159
I envisioned an innovative educate headquarters where it always serves as a retreat for teachers too.
00:38:50.320 --> 00:38:58.639
And a lot of times, districts want to have a place that's off site, not in their headquarters, to just go have meetings and workshops.
00:38:58.719 --> 00:39:03.519
And gosh, I would love to have just a beautiful retreat like space for that to happen.
00:39:03.840 --> 00:39:04.559
I love it.
00:39:04.719 --> 00:39:05.199
What else?
00:39:05.360 --> 00:39:05.920
Give me more.
00:39:06.159 --> 00:39:06.880
More dreams.
00:39:07.199 --> 00:39:08.800
I2E headquarters.
00:39:09.679 --> 00:39:10.639
I love that.
00:39:11.280 --> 00:39:12.559
It's beautiful.
00:39:12.800 --> 00:39:16.880
It's so much fun to give yourself space to dream.
00:39:17.199 --> 00:39:18.320
For sure, for sure.
00:39:18.480 --> 00:39:27.840
And you know, I actually see a connection between the book and the business because as part of the business, I call myself the chief innovation officer, the CIO.
00:39:28.159 --> 00:39:32.159
And so if I'm going to ask people to innovate, I have to be willing to do that work too.
00:39:32.239 --> 00:39:41.920
And so the book actually was a practice in me learning how to innovate, how to stimulate my own heart and mind to be able to make the change that I want to see around me.
00:39:42.159 --> 00:39:43.360
Oh my gosh.
00:39:44.159 --> 00:39:45.599
Fabulous things ahead.
00:39:45.760 --> 00:39:46.639
I know it.
00:39:46.880 --> 00:39:48.880
Yes, yes, yes, definitely, definitely.
00:39:48.960 --> 00:39:50.559
We got to just keep saying yes to ourselves.
00:39:50.800 --> 00:39:51.280
That's right.
00:39:51.440 --> 00:39:53.199
From a place of alignment.
00:39:53.440 --> 00:39:53.760
Yes.
00:39:54.000 --> 00:39:56.559
And that action is inspired.
00:39:56.800 --> 00:39:57.760
Yes, for sure.
00:39:57.920 --> 00:39:58.239
Yeah.
00:39:58.480 --> 00:39:59.519
Oh, it's beautiful.
00:39:59.760 --> 00:40:02.079
I have loved this conversation.
00:40:02.320 --> 00:40:04.000
Thank you so much for being here.
00:40:04.159 --> 00:40:09.360
Please tell everyone where they can find and follow you, how they can get the book, all the good things.
00:40:09.599 --> 00:40:10.000
Definitely.
00:40:10.079 --> 00:40:12.480
I would say the best place is go to my author website.
00:40:12.559 --> 00:40:16.000
It's my full name, tmydongxian.com.
00:40:16.159 --> 00:40:21.280
There's information on that website about where to buy the book and then also how to connect to the business as well.
00:40:21.440 --> 00:40:24.159
And I also do a monthly reflection on there too.
00:40:24.320 --> 00:40:28.960
So if folks don't want to read the book or don't have the time, they can at least follow and read the refections.
00:40:29.039 --> 00:40:30.320
And I'd love to hear from anyone.
00:40:30.400 --> 00:40:32.159
There's a space to connect with me as well.
00:40:32.480 --> 00:40:33.199
Oh, perfect.
00:40:33.360 --> 00:40:33.679
Thank you.
00:40:33.760 --> 00:40:35.599
We will link that down in the show notes.
00:40:35.760 --> 00:40:37.599
But thank you so much, T Mai.
00:40:37.840 --> 00:40:40.800
I I really know that big things are ahead.
00:40:41.039 --> 00:40:42.079
Thank you so much, Wendy.
00:40:42.239 --> 00:40:43.760
Thank you for sharing about you and your daughter.
00:40:43.840 --> 00:40:49.920
And if you ever need some other insights around what you know her experiences might be like, just grappling, you know, wrestling with both cultures.
00:40:50.079 --> 00:40:53.039
I'd be to happy to connect again if you'd like.
00:40:53.280 --> 00:40:53.920
Oh, thank you.
00:40:54.000 --> 00:40:55.679
Yes, I need all the insights.
00:40:55.920 --> 00:40:58.719
I want everything there is to know, is what I want to know.
00:40:58.960 --> 00:40:59.840
Thank you so much.
00:41:00.559 --> 00:41:02.800
I'd be willing to make the sacrifice and meet you at your chateau.
00:41:03.440 --> 00:41:03.920
Would you please?
00:41:04.079 --> 00:41:05.760
Would you please come on over?
00:41:05.920 --> 00:41:08.079
You can have a retreat while you're there.
00:41:08.880 --> 00:41:09.599
Perfect.
00:41:09.760 --> 00:41:11.519
We're full of good ideas.
00:41:18.400 --> 00:41:22.000
I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did.
00:41:22.239 --> 00:41:32.159
As always, any links or notes mentioned can be found at PhineasRighthouse.com in the podcast section of our site or in the show notes below.
00:41:32.400 --> 00:41:40.079
And if you haven't connected with me personally, come find me on Instagram at PhineasWrighthouse and let me know you listened to this episode.
00:41:40.320 --> 00:41:42.000
I'd love to get to know you.
00:41:42.239 --> 00:41:44.239
Thank you for sharing this time with me.
00:41:44.400 --> 00:41:50.400
I know your days are full, and I'm really grateful that you chose to spend some of your precious time right here.
00:41:50.639 --> 00:41:55.519
Be sure to subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss any of these delightful conversations.
00:41:55.760 --> 00:41:57.599
I'll see you next week.
