S9 EP42: Dr. Rangan Chatterjee

WEBVTT
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Hello, I'm Rob Beckett.
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And I'm Josh Willicombe.
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Welcome to Parenting Hell, the show in which Josh and
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I discuss what it's really like to be a parent.
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Which I would say can be a little tricky.
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So, to make ourselves, and hopefully you, feel better about
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the trials and tribulations of modern day parenting, each week
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we'll be chatting to a famous parent about how they're coping.
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Or hopefully how they're not coping.
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And we'll also be hearing from you, the listener, with
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your tips, advice, and of course, tales of parenting woe.
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Because let's be honest, there are plenty of times when
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none of us know what we're doing.
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Rangan Chatterjee, hello.
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Doctor.
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Hey, guys.
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Doctor, that's disrespectful. You've worked hard for that. Don't drop
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the doctor.
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Hey, Rangan's fine, honestly. I don't mind at all.
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Okay, we'll go for Rangan, but we need everyone to
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know that you're a doctor as well. That doesn't know.
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I mean, I think if you've worked hard for it.
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Yeah, yeah. My first question, which we discussed before, is unrelated,
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but I'm not very well. And my skin hurts. Is
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that a normal thing? When I get ill, I'm well.
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You think you've got a cold kind of illness. My
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skin hurts, and Rob doesn't believe me.
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When you get a cold?
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Yeah, or a bit flu-y, you know, and it's like
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you've got a bit of a temperature.
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It's not a bit flu-y, you either got flu or not.
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So, I mean, just so I'm being ethical in my answer,
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obviously we're recording this and it's in public, so other
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people are going to listen to this and presumably you're
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happy with that.
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Yes, yes.
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Because normally we don't do one-on-one consultations with tens of thousands,
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hundreds of thousands of people listening. So it's kind of
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fine for me as long as it's okay with you. Ooh.
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Are you suggesting it's got something to do with his
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tiny dick? I was not suggesting that at all.
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I was.
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I was simply trying to be ethical at the start
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of a conversation that I believe could go into all
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kinds of crazy areas. But a quick answer to your
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question is, yeah, loads of people get pain of some degree,
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whether it's their skin or other parts of their body
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when they get ill. And there's many reasons for that.
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Your immune system is a little bit fired up because
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it's trying to maybe protect you and fight off a bug.
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And we know that the... the kind of pain pathway
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in your brain, the area that looks after pain can
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be stimulated by physical stuff, but also emotional stuff, right?
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So it isn't, so pain can come up for a
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whole variety of different reasons, basically. Quick answer is yes,
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it absolutely can happen, and it's very, very common, and
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it's nothing to worry about. There you go.
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Well, he will worry about it anyway. Can I ask
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something quickly, and then we'll get on to you?
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I apologise to him immediately asking for a diagnosis when
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we've spoken to a doctor for two minutes.
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Yeah.
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I'm used to it.
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Is it part that, like, obviously people get colds and stuff,
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but are some patients just pussies? And they look for
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a bit more of this. And you, as a doctor,
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have to treat every patient with respect. But sometimes they
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could leave the consultation you think they're just slightly pathetic.
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OK, I've got to be careful how I answer this.
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But it's a great question.
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Not implying Josh, because Josh is under the weather. But
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some people are better at being ill than others, if
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you know what I mean.
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Yeah, I think we've all got a different tolerance to discomfort,
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don't we? And if I'm being completely honest... I've never
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thought of it like that, right? So I know many
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people do think of it like that. Like, why is
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this person come in today? You know, why did they,
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why did they decide to come in today? They could
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have just waited a few more days. Genuinely, hand on heart,
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I've never felt that. I've always been like, I'm honestly
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so interested in people. So I always used to think
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in my early days as a GP, if someone did
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come in with something that I might've considered relatively trivial,
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I would always ask myself, I wonder why that person
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has come in today. Why have they decided to, because
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it's not easy to get an appointment. Number one, right.
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It's getting harder and harder, but in many parts, it's
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really hard to get an appointment. You often have to
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take half a day off work. If not more, you've
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got to come. and wait in a waiting room.
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It's not a laugh, is it?
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Yeah, it's not a laugh.
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Right.
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So I've always wondered why is it? And so I never,
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I'm honestly, I'm not, I'm actually not that judgmental anymore.
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Right.
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I'm, I'm kind of very much, I don't, I want
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to understand and actually trying to understand why that person
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has decided to come in actually tells you a lot
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about their, their life and how they view their health. So, um,
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know yes people have a different tolerance to discomfort and
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pain and some people will literally sit at home for
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two months with something that you wish they'd come in
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yeah which is even worse in a way if they're
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too too yeah but then there's also the flip side
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but for me it's always about why has that person
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come in what is their belief about these symptoms that
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they have because here's the other thing i've learned right
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in um you know over two decades now of being
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a doctor is that People won't often, they don't always
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tell you what they're worried about in the consultation, right?
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So they might come in and tell you they've got
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a headache. And it's really bothering them. It's been going
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on for a little while, whatever, you know, and you
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do the consultation. And then as they're walking out the door,
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you know, they're literally, the hand is on the door
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and they're like, oh, doc, you know, I also, it's
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kind of like, um, you know, my dad died of
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cancer or had a brain tumor or my best mate
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had a brain tumor. So actually there's always a reason
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why that person's coming. It may seem trivial, but often
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they have an association in their heads. And so this
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is what the more patients you see, the more you
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just learn to be really open-minded again, you just have
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no idea. What's going on in someone else's life?
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Yeah, but painful skin.
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Come on, who has painful skin?
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Can I ask one last doctor question? This isn't about me.
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But this is a parenting-related one. With Calpol.
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So.
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Yeah, go on.
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And then we'll get on to your children and various children.
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But I've always wondered, you know when you get your
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Calpol and it says 2.5 millilitres? What's, like... I've always
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had long debates with my wife. She'll be like, oh
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my God, we've given them three milliliters when it should
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be 2.5. Presumably there's a big kind of... It's not
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like if you go just over 2.5 it's dangerous, is it?
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Okay, so.
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You're trying to get a doctor to suggest that you
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should go over prescribed amounts of medicine.
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Okay, so let me try and give you the reality
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from a medical perspective, okay? I'm enjoying the questions. I
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think Lisa, you know, if you're thinking them, it means
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there's a lot of people thinking them as well, right?
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So that's really interesting to me. So look, Calpol, you know,
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the main enzyme ingredient we're thinking about is paracetamol, right?
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So we give that for a variety of different reasons, pain,
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temperature management, all kinds of things.
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Painful skin.
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Yeah, that old sore skin. But paracetamol is not without
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its potential risks. That is the truth, right? Paracetamol should
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not be taken in excess. And even in the adult dosage,
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so that's how much you're meant to take as an adult,
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some people actually don't even do well at the maximum
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of that because we all deal with it genetically differently. Yeah,
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so it's not this... Because we get it over the counter,
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I think we... we sort of think, oh, it's nothing.
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Like it's just a bit of paracetamol. But actually it's
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pretty powerful what it does. So I don't think there's
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anything to worry about if you go a little bit over, right?
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But I wouldn't recommend you do that regularly. I would
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recommend you try and stick to the recommended dose. And
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it is there for a reason. It's not there to
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be difficult. It's actually there because too much paracetamol on
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a kind of, even with an adult, but for a
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child with a forming liver, which has to actually process
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that paracetamol, You kind of don't really want to go
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beyond the prescribed dose if you can help it. But
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if you do on the odd occasion, don't stress out
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about it, is what I would say.
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Okay. Let's talk about it.
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Is that helpful? Yes, it is.
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Very helpful.
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But I should say as well, we have had doctors
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on in the past. It feels like this is the
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first doctor we've had on and Josh has just unleashed
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on you. But those doctors were Harry Hill and Mike Wozniak.
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Yes, they've gone into comedy.
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Good God.
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You're our first, I'd say, are you still practicing, Doctor?
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Because you write your books, you do your podcast. Are
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you still in the surgery? I stopped three months ago.
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Did you?
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Three months ago. Yeah, after 23 years. Oh, wow. I
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say stop temporarily, at least, because I've realized that I
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just had too much going on. All those sore skin
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losers walking in as well.
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Last thing you need, is it, when you've got a
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book deadline?
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What happened, I've been thinking about this for a little
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while actually, because I think a lot of the things
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that I write about and talk about each week on
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my podcast, people find really, really helpful and actually helps
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them manage their health. And I was asked to be
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a professor at Chester Medical School about a year ago
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to help with health education and communication. And so I'm
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involved with them with teaching medical students. And I thought,
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you just can't do everything. And, you know, this is
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a parenting podcast. I kind of really want to spend
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quality time with my children and my wife. But I realized.
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Good save. Good save.
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Huge, huge save. Whoever's editing this, don't edit that last part.
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Do you know what? The timing wasn't... It was the
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way you said it was the problem. It wasn't that
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you did it, you said it too late.
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And what I've... And wife, yeah, just slip that in there.
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But in essence, I've realized that I actually do want
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to be living the life that I try and talk
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about each week on my show or in my books.
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And actually, so many of us these days are chronically
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stressed because we're overly busy. We've got too much going on. And,
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you know, I think the truth is some of that
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decision came from you know what, what will people think?
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Will they think I'm a real doctor if I stop practicing?
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And then I thought, this is ridiculous. Like moms all
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the time take maybe two, three years off from practicing
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medicine when they have children, when they're looking after the baby,
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let's say, there are mechanisms in place for people to
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temporarily stop practicing and then go back. And I decided
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for me at this point in my life, I still
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feel I'm very much being a doctor in all the
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things that i do uh on my podcast and my
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books and teaching medical students so it feels it was
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a bit weird at first you know the first day.
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Um yeah when you get up on a monday and
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you're like oh i don't have to see any i
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can just be on my own all day.
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Or is that just me thinking i think it was
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more about identity guys if i'm honest like yeah kind
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of you know from I went to medical school when
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I was 18 and then it was all about qualifying.
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Your dad was a doctor as well.
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So was it sort of like expected of you from
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the family as well, slightly?
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Yeah, I think I feel more comfortable talking about this
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sort of stuff these days than maybe 20 years ago, right?
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It's probably a bit of a cliche, but a lot
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of children of Indian immigrants, like my parents were Indian
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immigrants to the UK in the 1960s and the 1970s,
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a lot of their children end up being doctors. Now,
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I'm sure you've noticed that, right? And there's a reason
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for that.
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It's a cliche joke, isn't it? It's sort of like
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on the circuit in any Asian comic. It's one of
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their opening lines, really. Well, like what their mom and
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dad think of them.
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Yeah, the opening line is, you know, I'm a failure
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because I wasn't a doctor, an engineer or a lawyer.
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I've ended up being a comedian, right? So that's the
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opening line. But it is kind of true. Sometimes it's
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not even actually spoken about. It's just kind of, It's
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there in the, you know, what do they say? You know,
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a fish doesn't know that it's in water, right? Because
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it's sort of swimming in water the whole time. There's
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a better quote than that. I've messed up the quote,
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but you know what I'm talking about. A fish doesn't
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actually know what it is because it's surrounded by it.
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And I kind of feel it's the same in many
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immigrant families. We're just surrounded by this idea that actually,
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you're going to be a doctor, an engineer, or a lawyer. Now,
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it is changing, although not completely. So I did. And
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it's not that I don't care about people. It's not
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that I'm not proud to be a doctor. I don't
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think it's the right career for me. I think it is.
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But actually, I'm not sure I can honestly say that I...
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had free choice in terms of what I ended up doing.
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I'm not saying my parents said I have to do it,
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but it was just there around me. And I think
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my experience of that has actually quite significantly influenced how
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I parent my children, which is actually quite different.
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Yeah, that's quite interesting. Are they showing an interest?
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How old are they?
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So my son is 14 and my daughter was 12
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last weekend. Right, yeah.
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So that's quite an important stage of their life with
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decisions on where they're going.
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They have to start picking subjects a little bit more,
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don't they, for GCSEs?
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Yeah, my son last year had to pick his. Now
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he's in his first GCSE year and he had to
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pick those subjects. And so, you know, funnily enough, medicine
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hasn't come up. Like one of the things I feel
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I've struggled with a lot over my life, which I
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was pretty open about in, my last book and this
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current book, I sort of, and again, it's a bit
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of a cliche, we're hearing this a lot these days,
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but for all my so-called success over the past few years,
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you know, I've certainly ticked a lot of the societal
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boxes of success. I don't think I was truly happy
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and contented until a few years ago, maybe four or
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five years ago. And I feel in many ways, I
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had to get that success to teach me that that
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success doesn't make you happy.
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Yeah, I think that's a real- It's a kind of
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weird thing where you get this definitely with comedians who
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you think success is going to bring you happiness, but
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almost you do need it proven to yourself that it's
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not the key.
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Well, yeah, 100 percent.
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I think society puts things in place because of an
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identity you've chosen. So if you become a you know,
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I'm studying medicine. You need to become the doctor and
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then the type of doctor. If you're a comedian, it's
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like you've got to hit these levels of things to
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prove that you're a successful one. And I think actually
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when you do hit those things, you realize, oh, that
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hasn't brought me happiness. And everyone has their own internal
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what actually is success to you individually. And it doesn't
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normally match up with societal sort of.
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Benchmarks.
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I think it very rarely does. It really doesn't. And
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so for me, I've been very open about this over
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the last couple of years. And it relates to what
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we just said about my parents, right? So I remember, guys,
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as a child, maybe six or seven, I'd come back
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from primary school, dead excited to tell mom and dad
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about my grades and like, oh, you know, I've got
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19 out of 20 in this test. And I can
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still remember my mom and dad not saying, well done.
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What they would say is, what did you get wrong?
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So I'd explain what I got wrong and said, well,
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did you come top? I'm like, no, I was second
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or I came third. So who came top? What mark
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did they get? So no, no, but here's the thing, right?
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I'm not blaming my parents, just to be really clear.
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What I've learned as I've become older and through this
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journey of parenting, I've learned that actually every single situation
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in life has multiple perspectives, right? So from mom and
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dad's perspective, they're immigrants to the UK. They faced... Quite
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a bit of discrimination back then in a variety of
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different ways. And so the immigrant mentality is, if my
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child can get straight A grades and become a doctor,
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they're not going to have any of the problems that
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we have. That kind of makes sense if you look
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at it through their lens, right? But what happened with
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me is little Rangan takes on the belief at a
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young age that I'm only worthy of love. when I'm
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top dog, when I get four marks, right? So what
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I've also learned is that I've developed, for most of
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my life, my best mates would say, we don't know
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anyone more competitive than Rangan. He is fiercely competitive. But
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I'm not anymore, guys, right? I'm not anymore, because being
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competitive wasn't who I was, it was who I became.
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So if you think about it, if you think that
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you're only gonna get love when you're top dog and
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you're doing really well, It's going to drive you to
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be really, really competitive. And yes, I was successful. I
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00:16:08.220 --> 00:16:12.580
was a straight A student, but it didn't equate to contentedness.
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Whereas honestly, hand on heart, I'm 47 years old now.
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00:16:17.769 --> 00:16:22.169
I've never felt this good. Like I feel really, really good.
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You look fucking great as well.
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00:16:24.509 --> 00:16:28.889
Mate, I appreciate that. Don't judge a book by its cover.
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00:16:30.190 --> 00:16:31.470
The thing is, though, because obviously you went down the
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medicine route and that was maybe your parents' influence. But
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you're obviously an absolute natural when it comes to, like,
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you know, podcasting, writing your books and broadcasting. And really,
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the way you do it, you can be talking about anything,
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whether it be medicine or spool or the news or whatever.
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00:16:46.799 --> 00:16:47.139
You can.
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take something, like make it in a way that's interesting.
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You're engaging.
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Yeah, and engaging and to take in as an audience,
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you know, you can see that. So if you didn't
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have that influence, do you think there might have been
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something that you might have been swayed towards growing up
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or because it's so medicine focused that you didn't have that?
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I'll tell you what I do remember, right? So I've
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00:17:08.200 --> 00:17:10.700
always been a musician my whole life, right? I've always
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played instruments and, you know, when I was a teenager,
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I would be, you know, I was obsessed with, you know,
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rock music and writing songs. And I remember when I
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was 21, so I was at Edinburgh Medical School and
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00:17:23.599 --> 00:17:26.420
then in a medical degree, you can take a year out,
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00:17:27.680 --> 00:17:29.329
like after your second year to do what's called an
377
00:17:29.390 --> 00:17:32.269
intercalated degree. So I did a degree in immunology, basically
378
00:17:32.329 --> 00:17:34.869
an honest degree in immunology when I was And I
379
00:17:34.910 --> 00:17:40.440
remember coming home for Christmas that December. And, you know,
380
00:17:40.519 --> 00:17:43.500
I had really long hair, sort of middle of my back.
381
00:17:43.539 --> 00:17:46.160
I was playing with my bands. And I said to
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00:17:46.559 --> 00:17:48.569
mom and dad, I think, guys, I'm going to finish
383
00:17:48.589 --> 00:17:51.089
this year, get my immunology degree. And then I think
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00:17:51.109 --> 00:17:53.349
I'm going to quit medical school to go on the
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road with my bands. And, oh my God, that was
386
00:17:58.589 --> 00:18:02.200
a punchy Christmas. That was a very punchy Christmas. Mum
387
00:18:02.220 --> 00:18:04.339
was amazing. Mum was trying to keep the peace. I
388
00:18:04.900 --> 00:18:08.049
don't think my dad spoke to me for a few days. Like,
389
00:18:08.089 --> 00:18:10.740
he wasn't... He was just trying to avoid me. He
390
00:18:10.779 --> 00:18:13.700
couldn't quite understand what would happen to his son. Yeah.
391
00:18:13.720 --> 00:18:15.039
He's still trying to deal with the hair.
392
00:18:15.140 --> 00:18:15.940
And you've dropped that on him.
393
00:18:16.059 --> 00:18:18.119
He's trying to deal with the hair, exactly. The long hair.
394
00:18:18.200 --> 00:18:20.619
And now I'm thinking about quitting medical school. And my
395
00:18:20.640 --> 00:18:23.000
mom said, hey, listen, listen. I know you love your music,
396
00:18:23.039 --> 00:18:25.059
but why don't you just finish your medical degree, right?
397
00:18:25.099 --> 00:18:27.240
At least finish it first. And then you've got options.
398
00:18:27.289 --> 00:18:29.650
And the truth is, I don't know if I even
399
00:18:29.769 --> 00:18:31.650
meant it. I think I was just... Was your band good?
400
00:18:32.789 --> 00:18:32.859
Uh.
401
00:18:33.450 --> 00:18:35.690
I think we were pretty good. We've done stuff. I
402
00:18:35.730 --> 00:18:38.210
don't know how much to say. I don't know how
403
00:18:38.250 --> 00:18:40.390
much is still available online.
404
00:18:41.730 --> 00:18:43.730
Let's get into this. What was the band called?
405
00:18:44.809 --> 00:18:46.950
Well, we had multiple names.
406
00:18:48.910 --> 00:18:51.230
Our first band at uni was called Smokescreen, which I
407
00:18:51.250 --> 00:18:52.609
thought was really cool at the time.
408
00:18:53.609 --> 00:18:56.980
Now, I don't know, looking back, maybe not the coolest thing,
409
00:18:57.079 --> 00:19:00.799
but I did record a solo EP back in 2004,
410
00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:05.180
which made X of M single of the week. So
411
00:19:05.309 --> 00:19:08.609
I could play. But the kind of point is, is
412
00:19:08.750 --> 00:19:10.710
I don't think I actually meant it. I think I
413
00:19:10.730 --> 00:19:14.279
was just... Kicking out. Pushing back against my parents to
414
00:19:14.319 --> 00:19:16.910
see what would happen. But the point I wanted to make,
415
00:19:16.930 --> 00:19:19.950
and maybe it was interesting for your audience about parenting,
416
00:19:20.089 --> 00:19:24.039
is that because of that journey for me, which is
417
00:19:24.259 --> 00:19:27.339
I never thought that I was worthy of love unless
418
00:19:27.460 --> 00:19:28.640
I did really, really well.
419
00:19:28.660 --> 00:19:28.759
Yeah.
420
00:19:29.579 --> 00:19:32.140
I've gone the opposite way, which is to basically make
421
00:19:32.200 --> 00:19:35.789
sure that my children know that I love them no
422
00:19:35.900 --> 00:19:38.950
matter what. And I know it sounds obvious, but I
423
00:19:38.970 --> 00:19:42.009
think we talk about this term unconditional love a lot.
424
00:19:42.910 --> 00:19:45.769
I'm not sure it's as common as we think it is, right?
425
00:19:45.910 --> 00:19:48.569
A lot of the time we believe that the love
426
00:19:48.650 --> 00:19:52.049
has conditions attached to it. to it. I think I
427
00:19:52.109 --> 00:19:54.789
believe that, and I love my parents to bits, right?
428
00:19:54.829 --> 00:19:57.730
I'm not blaming them. I think we're all only able
429
00:19:57.769 --> 00:20:01.779
to parent in the way, often the way we were parented, right?
430
00:20:01.819 --> 00:20:04.019
So a lot of the time our parents and us
431
00:20:04.180 --> 00:20:07.140
are just doing what we did and what we received.
432
00:20:07.759 --> 00:20:10.019
And I thought, I do not want my children to
433
00:20:10.099 --> 00:20:14.980
believe that their love for me is conditional on anything.
434
00:20:15.039 --> 00:20:17.400
It's not, I love them for who they are. And
435
00:20:17.460 --> 00:20:19.660
so I think I've gone to the other extreme to
436
00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:21.910
the point where I'm sometimes about their exams. Hey guys,
437
00:20:22.690 --> 00:20:24.630
doesn't matter. Daddy loves you anyway. You know, and I'm
438
00:20:24.650 --> 00:20:28.190
thinking maybe I've gone to the other extreme here because
439
00:20:28.210 --> 00:20:30.250
I don't want them to feel what I felt basically.
440
00:20:30.730 --> 00:20:33.119
But on the flip side of that, though, that sort
441
00:20:33.140 --> 00:20:36.079
of competitiveness that they sort of bred into you through that,
442
00:20:36.160 --> 00:20:38.099
but who got hired, what's their names and that, and
443
00:20:38.140 --> 00:20:41.529
it made you this really competitive guy, that sort of
444
00:20:41.569 --> 00:20:44.509
was a fuel that propelled you through your studies and
445
00:20:44.650 --> 00:20:48.619
your later career of books and writing. podcast and major
446
00:20:48.640 --> 00:20:50.960
you know a time when podcasting is so competitive you
447
00:20:50.980 --> 00:20:52.140
were like right I've got to make sure I film
448
00:20:52.180 --> 00:20:54.339
it get it out there and it's a huge podcast
449
00:20:54.680 --> 00:20:56.799
like my mother-in-law's obsessed with it she listens to it
450
00:20:56.839 --> 00:20:58.460
every night when she goes to sleep it's a massive
451
00:20:58.500 --> 00:21:00.039
deal you've and now.
452
00:20:59.980 --> 00:21:02.029
It does send people to sleep that's true I can
453
00:21:02.329 --> 00:21:05.029
see why I know you guys are the comedians.
454
00:21:04.609 --> 00:21:06.569
But I'm I know you guys I'm trying I'm trying
455
00:21:07.269 --> 00:21:08.529
I'm trying to have a bit of comedy from my
456
00:21:08.569 --> 00:21:09.309
side if I can.
457
00:21:09.329 --> 00:21:11.470
She said you spoke too fast. I found out that
458
00:21:11.490 --> 00:21:14.230
you was on times two speed on her phone. She
459
00:21:14.259 --> 00:21:16.059
was like, I love him, but he speaks so fast.
460
00:21:16.099 --> 00:21:17.680
And I was like, he's not a fast speaker. He's
461
00:21:17.700 --> 00:21:18.740
quite measured.
462
00:21:19.160 --> 00:21:20.069
Anyway, so I changed it.
463
00:21:20.140 --> 00:21:23.220
But so that fuel of that competitiveness got you to
464
00:21:23.259 --> 00:21:25.240
a position where you've been offered to be a professor
465
00:21:25.279 --> 00:21:27.089
at this uni. It means that you can take a
466
00:21:27.130 --> 00:21:29.529
step back from your doctor duties to do your books
467
00:21:29.549 --> 00:21:31.329
and your podcasts and spend more time with your kids.
468
00:21:32.009 --> 00:21:33.970
Without that fuel to be competitive, do you think you
469
00:21:33.990 --> 00:21:36.609
would have got yourself in a successful position... in order
470
00:21:36.670 --> 00:21:37.690
to have options?
471
00:21:37.710 --> 00:21:42.339
It's a brilliant question and something I think about a lot.
472
00:21:42.599 --> 00:21:45.240
And I've explored this in my new book, actually, a
473
00:21:45.339 --> 00:21:50.579
lot about this whole idea that things happen for a reason, right?
474
00:21:50.700 --> 00:21:53.880
And ultimately, who we are today is made up from
475
00:21:54.099 --> 00:21:57.099
every single experience that we've ever had. It just is.
476
00:21:57.160 --> 00:22:01.660
And if I didn't have that, if I was, if
477
00:22:01.799 --> 00:22:06.240
I believed as a kid that my self-worth was not
478
00:22:06.299 --> 00:22:13.369
dependent on achievement, would I have, in adverse commas, achieved
479
00:22:13.569 --> 00:22:19.450
what I've achieved today? Probably not, I'm guessing, but maybe
480
00:22:19.490 --> 00:22:21.670
I would have been happier at an early age. Maybe not.
481
00:22:21.829 --> 00:22:26.529
It's that sliding doors thing. I will never know. But
482
00:22:26.569 --> 00:22:29.990
what's really interesting, if I reflect on that through the
483
00:22:30.029 --> 00:22:34.279
lens of my experience of parenting... I do park run
484
00:22:34.480 --> 00:22:36.980
pretty often on Saturday morning with my boy, who's now 14.
485
00:22:36.980 --> 00:22:38.700
And we've been doing it on and off since he was,
486
00:22:38.720 --> 00:22:41.200
I don't know, six or seven. So it's a really
487
00:22:41.259 --> 00:22:44.380
fun thing that we do on Saturday mornings together. And
488
00:22:45.299 --> 00:22:49.819
what I've noticed is, which is, it hasn't confused me,
489
00:22:49.859 --> 00:22:54.980
but it's got me thinking a lot. He's a competent athlete, right?
490
00:22:56.640 --> 00:22:59.039
But he just wouldn't push himself at the end to
491
00:22:59.079 --> 00:23:01.680
beat someone. When I was that age, if I could
492
00:23:01.720 --> 00:23:05.450
beat someone, I would literally go through the pain barrier
493
00:23:05.789 --> 00:23:08.690
because it mattered that much that I was ahead of someone.
494
00:23:09.369 --> 00:23:11.349
And then we were like about a year ago, I
495
00:23:11.490 --> 00:23:13.849
was like, I think you can take him, son. So yeah,
496
00:23:13.950 --> 00:23:16.170
I'm quite enjoying this at the moment. Actually, I'm good.
497
00:23:17.680 --> 00:23:21.680
And I thought about that. I thought, well, actually, maybe...
498
00:23:22.190 --> 00:23:25.289
maybe he's got it right. Maybe, you know, time will tell,
499
00:23:25.769 --> 00:23:28.589
but why do you need to push it on a
500
00:23:28.609 --> 00:23:31.049
Saturday morning when you're enjoying your run to prove something
501
00:23:31.109 --> 00:23:34.490
about yourself to you? Like, I don't know. I really,
502
00:23:34.519 --> 00:23:38.559
I find it so fascinating because, you know, I don't
503
00:23:38.579 --> 00:23:40.200
know if you guys can resonate with this or not,
504
00:23:40.240 --> 00:23:44.599
but in my book on happiness, I wrote about this, right?
505
00:23:44.660 --> 00:23:48.980
Where basically I remember being at university. And if you'd
506
00:23:49.000 --> 00:23:50.880
had a big night out on the Saturday, what we'd
507
00:23:50.940 --> 00:23:53.200
often do is go to somewhere called Diane's Pool Hall
508
00:23:53.259 --> 00:23:56.519
at Edinburgh, which is this old kind of sort of
509
00:23:56.640 --> 00:23:59.470
divey pool hall that had a great jukebox. So we
510
00:23:59.509 --> 00:24:02.829
just loved hanging out on a Sunday afternoon, shooting pool,
511
00:24:03.470 --> 00:24:07.359
listening to music. And, you know... I thought of myself
512
00:24:07.420 --> 00:24:09.019
and still do, as a pretty good pool player.
513
00:24:09.059 --> 00:24:09.859
I'm a good pool player.
514
00:24:09.900 --> 00:24:12.200
I'm a very competitive, even with pool. Next time.
515
00:24:12.299 --> 00:24:13.200
You're a serial killer.
516
00:24:13.279 --> 00:24:13.759
I love it.
517
00:24:13.799 --> 00:24:14.299
Let's do it.
518
00:24:14.359 --> 00:24:15.740
Even with pool, come on.
519
00:24:16.279 --> 00:24:18.940
But I can still remember being at uni, like at 21,
520
00:24:18.940 --> 00:24:22.769
I'd be there. And if I was losing, I would
521
00:24:22.809 --> 00:24:25.450
go into the toilets and I'd give myself a bit
522
00:24:25.490 --> 00:24:30.230
of a talking to in the mirror. Honestly, I genuinely would.
523
00:24:30.690 --> 00:24:32.869
Hungover playing pool.
524
00:24:33.109 --> 00:24:35.890
Yeah, and I'd come back out and usually it would
525
00:24:35.950 --> 00:24:38.710
work and I would normally win. Not always, but usually.
526
00:24:38.730 --> 00:24:41.430
But what I figured out is that I didn't actually
527
00:24:41.549 --> 00:24:46.250
enjoy winning. The pain of losing was just too great.
528
00:24:46.410 --> 00:24:49.569
And it's a really messed up relationship with doing so.
529
00:24:49.589 --> 00:24:53.369
Because I remember that for much of my life, I
530
00:24:53.410 --> 00:24:55.839
actually didn't do stuff that I couldn't be the best at.
531
00:24:55.910 --> 00:24:57.319
If I couldn't be really good at it, I wouldn't
532
00:24:57.359 --> 00:25:01.480
do it. And it kind of constricts your whole experience
533
00:25:01.519 --> 00:25:04.819
of life. And so, going back to your question, Rob,
534
00:25:05.440 --> 00:25:08.839
all of this kind of... You asked the question, would
535
00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:12.640
I have achieved this much? I don't know, but maybe
536
00:25:12.660 --> 00:25:17.900
it doesn't matter. Maybe... Maybe we think the achievement is
537
00:25:17.940 --> 00:25:20.019
a good thing, right? So we therefore think, yeah, but
538
00:25:20.039 --> 00:25:22.099
you wouldn't have made it had you not brought up
539
00:25:22.119 --> 00:25:25.180
like that. But maybe it isn't. Maybe actually the happiest
540
00:25:25.220 --> 00:25:27.309
people are the people who have not got podcasts, who
541
00:25:27.349 --> 00:25:29.710
are not on stage, who are just living their life
542
00:25:29.750 --> 00:25:31.269
pretty content with who they are.
543
00:25:31.390 --> 00:25:35.509
I often think that. I think if I didn't have
544
00:25:35.549 --> 00:25:37.509
to prove these things, if I didn't have to do
545
00:25:37.549 --> 00:25:40.609
all these things, it would be a lot easier. But
546
00:25:40.650 --> 00:25:44.089
there's some that I... I need to do these things
547
00:25:44.490 --> 00:25:48.259
to whatever. I couldn't not be doing these things, if
548
00:25:48.279 --> 00:25:51.099
that makes sense. But it would be a lot easier
549
00:25:51.140 --> 00:25:52.519
if I didn't have that drive.
550
00:25:52.859 --> 00:25:55.359
I think it's a balance, right? I think it's good
551
00:25:55.440 --> 00:25:58.019
to be motivated and want to do something which pushes
552
00:25:58.079 --> 00:26:03.240
you and actually gets you to have drive, have motivation.
553
00:26:03.269 --> 00:26:07.900
I just think it's this really fine balance where I
554
00:26:07.920 --> 00:26:09.839
think it comes to validation for me. So I think
555
00:26:09.940 --> 00:26:12.099
one of the reasons I feel so happy these days
556
00:26:12.119 --> 00:26:17.109
is because I no longer need the external validation in
557
00:26:17.119 --> 00:26:19.180
the way that I used to. I used to need it.
558
00:26:19.369 --> 00:26:21.549
I used to need people to be able to say, oh, yeah,
559
00:26:21.609 --> 00:26:25.150
that was really good. I generally don't need that anymore.
560
00:26:25.210 --> 00:26:26.849
I validate myself now.
561
00:26:26.869 --> 00:26:30.559
Can I ask what the turning point was for you?
562
00:26:30.579 --> 00:26:32.019
Because we know what you were before and how you
563
00:26:32.039 --> 00:26:33.059
feel now. Was it something that.
564
00:26:34.140 --> 00:26:38.000
Look, I think there's been a process of multiple things.
565
00:26:38.079 --> 00:26:40.079
I think being a parent has been a huge part
566
00:26:40.099 --> 00:26:42.700
of this, right? Honestly, because being a parent just changes you.
567
00:26:42.720 --> 00:26:45.180
You know, you can't be as focused on yourself because
568
00:26:45.200 --> 00:26:48.490
there's another person or two people or three, however many
569
00:26:48.509 --> 00:26:50.430
kids you have, who suddenly look up to you and
570
00:26:50.470 --> 00:26:55.019
rely on you, right? admire you and sort of start
571
00:26:55.160 --> 00:26:58.220
copying your behaviors right which is a big it's a
572
00:26:58.220 --> 00:27:00.480
big thing for me to actually start sorting myself out
573
00:27:00.519 --> 00:27:03.509
was hey wrong and you've got a pretty vicious negative
574
00:27:03.549 --> 00:27:06.470
inner voice if you don't sort this out what kind
575
00:27:06.509 --> 00:27:08.289
of inner voice do you think they're going to pick
576
00:27:08.390 --> 00:27:10.990
up and then have when they're adults so that was
577
00:27:11.029 --> 00:27:14.329
a huge motivation for me but you know guys I
578
00:27:14.349 --> 00:27:16.490
don't know how relatable this is at all right but
579
00:27:17.130 --> 00:27:21.190
honestly I remember I remember um I remember this moment
580
00:27:21.230 --> 00:27:23.670
quite well. So my first book, The Four Pillar Plan,
581
00:27:23.690 --> 00:27:26.829
came out in end of 2017. First time I had
582
00:27:26.849 --> 00:27:30.950
a book out, right? And to be clear, multiple things
583
00:27:30.990 --> 00:27:33.930
can be true. I deeply care about people. I'm deeply
584
00:27:34.009 --> 00:27:37.339
passionate about trying to help people. At the same time,
585
00:27:37.359 --> 00:27:40.069
I think I really was driven a lot or in
586
00:27:40.150 --> 00:27:42.930
part by external validation. It doesn't mean I didn't care
587
00:27:42.970 --> 00:27:45.190
about people, I did, and I had a need for
588
00:27:45.230 --> 00:27:50.869
external validation. And I can remember in the end of 2017,
589
00:27:50.869 --> 00:27:53.549
I'm on a WhatsApp group with my close uni mates,
590
00:27:53.829 --> 00:27:55.630
the ones who I used to play pool with in
591
00:27:55.650 --> 00:27:59.410
Diane's pool hall, right? And it was that exciting. And we,
592
00:27:59.430 --> 00:28:01.390
you know, the book was sitting at about number seven
593
00:28:01.539 --> 00:28:03.940
in the charts, right? And Joe Witts was at number
594
00:28:04.019 --> 00:28:05.940
one and it kept going up and up and up.
595
00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:09.000
And like on New Year's Eve, it hit the top spot, right?
596
00:28:09.039 --> 00:28:11.140
And we were all like, you know, we're all on
597
00:28:11.180 --> 00:28:13.980
our little WhatsApp group, you know, celebrating and it felt really,
598
00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:19.079
really great, right? The year after my second book comes out,
599
00:28:19.279 --> 00:28:21.940
and again, I almost feel a bit embarrassed telling this
600
00:28:21.980 --> 00:28:25.259
story because it's like, how relatable is this? Oh, poor you,
601
00:28:25.700 --> 00:28:27.680
you had another number one book, right? But I think
602
00:28:28.140 --> 00:28:32.299
the message behind it is actually quite important. The second
603
00:28:32.339 --> 00:28:34.269
book also gets the number one, but it took a
604
00:28:34.289 --> 00:28:36.750
bit longer. I was like, oh, cool. It felt good,
605
00:28:36.849 --> 00:28:40.190
but not as good as the first time. The third
606
00:28:40.210 --> 00:28:42.190
book the year after, Feel Better in Five comes out,
607
00:28:43.039 --> 00:28:46.059
And it still gets there, but it takes about 10
608
00:28:46.059 --> 00:28:48.319
days or two weeks to get there. And I remember
609
00:28:48.480 --> 00:28:53.519
at that time thinking, I'm not even happy. I'm just relieved.
610
00:28:53.539 --> 00:28:57.329
I thought, this is messed up, right? 10 years ago,
611
00:28:57.349 --> 00:28:59.150
if someone had told you you'd ever write one book,
612
00:28:59.190 --> 00:29:01.410
you'd be like, no way. I'll be an author one day.
613
00:29:01.970 --> 00:29:03.410
Not only have I written that one book.
614
00:29:03.430 --> 00:29:06.109
Well, the lead singer from Smokescreen, the guy with the ponytail,
615
00:29:06.150 --> 00:29:07.509
showered himself in the mirror.
616
00:29:07.250 --> 00:29:07.809
At the pool hall.
617
00:29:07.829 --> 00:29:08.509
That guy.
618
00:29:08.569 --> 00:29:08.829
Yeah.
619
00:29:09.190 --> 00:29:13.019
Exactly. But it's like, and that's when I first realised, oh,
620
00:29:13.039 --> 00:29:15.660
this is a con. This is literally a con. This
621
00:29:15.740 --> 00:29:18.859
is a myth. You better sort yourself out.
622
00:29:18.920 --> 00:29:22.480
Enough's never enough if you've got low self-worth, essentially, and
623
00:29:22.519 --> 00:29:25.329
it comes from external validation. And whether it's a book
624
00:29:25.470 --> 00:29:27.910
or whatever, or a job promotion, whatever it is, it
625
00:29:27.930 --> 00:29:28.720
will keep going up.
626
00:29:29.470 --> 00:29:31.309
It will keep going up. And to the point where
627
00:29:31.349 --> 00:29:34.490
these days, I believe the biggest disease in society is
628
00:29:34.579 --> 00:29:38.480
not a cold or a skin problem or cancer. And
629
00:29:38.529 --> 00:29:42.299
I say that with respect The biggest disease is the
630
00:29:42.339 --> 00:29:48.240
disease of more, more money, more followers, more downloads, more holidays.
631
00:29:49.180 --> 00:29:53.200
We think that's going to make us happy. I'm not
632
00:29:53.240 --> 00:29:56.009
trying to trivialize people who are struggling to put food
633
00:29:56.029 --> 00:29:58.450
on their table and heat their houses. Genuinely, that is
634
00:29:58.509 --> 00:29:59.289
an issue, right?
635
00:29:59.309 --> 00:29:59.390
Yeah.
636
00:30:00.250 --> 00:30:02.630
But once you have those basic needs, Matt, I know
637
00:30:02.670 --> 00:30:05.589
it's a cliche, but I really believe it's true, is
638
00:30:05.630 --> 00:30:11.539
that more money and more things and more achievements, once
639
00:30:11.559 --> 00:30:14.720
you've had enough, it's not going to make you happier
640
00:30:14.759 --> 00:30:16.839
for most people. Now, I think you can have it
641
00:30:17.539 --> 00:30:20.160
as long as you've got a good relationship with yourself.
642
00:30:20.220 --> 00:30:23.140
And that's why, like, genuinely, this new book, Make Change
643
00:30:23.180 --> 00:30:24.829
at Last, one of the things I'm proudest of about
644
00:30:24.869 --> 00:30:27.009
that book is I actually think it's going to help
645
00:30:27.049 --> 00:30:30.259
people understand the How do you have a balance of both?
646
00:30:30.839 --> 00:30:33.680
How can I be successful in the modern world and
647
00:30:33.700 --> 00:30:37.390
at the same time, like myself, be a good parent,
648
00:30:37.509 --> 00:30:41.069
be a good partner, and not have my self-worth dependent
649
00:30:41.130 --> 00:30:41.529
on others?
650
00:30:42.829 --> 00:30:46.400
On parenting, one thing that a lot of parents are
651
00:30:46.420 --> 00:30:48.220
concerned about, this is a bit of a term, but
652
00:30:48.299 --> 00:30:53.089
is mobile phones. and screens and all that kind of thing.
653
00:30:53.190 --> 00:30:56.079
And that likes and followers, because even for adults, that's
654
00:30:56.099 --> 00:30:58.299
hard to manage. But for teenagers, we'll put up a
655
00:30:58.319 --> 00:31:00.319
photo of them at their birthday.
656
00:31:00.339 --> 00:31:02.160
I'm fully aware. I'm totally addicted.
657
00:31:02.339 --> 00:31:04.519
My daughter gave me a note going, oh, I'm nervous
658
00:31:04.559 --> 00:31:06.180
and excited for my party, but I'm worried no one
659
00:31:06.200 --> 00:31:09.509
will turn up. But then as social media grows and
660
00:31:09.529 --> 00:31:11.589
they get a phone, I imagine that's... How are you
661
00:31:11.609 --> 00:31:14.170
dealing with that with your teenagers of likes and followers
662
00:31:14.230 --> 00:31:15.009
and things like that?
663
00:31:15.630 --> 00:31:17.849
So I believe that.
664
00:31:20.589 --> 00:31:25.369
Children and technology, the early introduction of smartphones into our
665
00:31:25.430 --> 00:31:29.759
children's lives, I believe is the most urgent public health
666
00:31:29.779 --> 00:31:31.380
issue we have across society.
667
00:31:31.420 --> 00:31:32.740
I think it's that serious. They banned it in Australia,
668
00:31:32.759 --> 00:31:34.339
haven't they? Under-16s aren't allowed on social media.
669
00:31:34.460 --> 00:31:37.140
Well, as we are having this conversation, and I know
670
00:31:37.160 --> 00:31:39.819
this will come out after this, but on Wednesday and
671
00:31:39.859 --> 00:31:42.299
Thursday night this week on Channel 4 at 8pm, I'm
672
00:31:42.339 --> 00:31:44.640
involved with a documentary where we look to exactly this.
673
00:31:44.680 --> 00:31:46.059
It's going to air in literally two days.
674
00:31:46.119 --> 00:31:46.480
Oh, brilliant.
675
00:31:47.009 --> 00:31:51.069
It is so, so powerful, right? So me alongside Matt
676
00:31:51.089 --> 00:31:54.650
and Emma Willis, we went to a school, Stanway School
677
00:31:54.890 --> 00:31:58.910
in the south of England. Is that in Colchester? Colchester, yeah.
678
00:31:58.950 --> 00:32:02.039
That's where Damon Albarn and Graham Coxon from Blur went to. Sorry,
679
00:32:02.079 --> 00:32:03.259
that's such a boring fact.
680
00:32:03.279 --> 00:32:03.700
I didn't know.
681
00:32:03.720 --> 00:32:05.799
They're not up on the wall, surprisingly. You'd think they'd
682
00:32:05.819 --> 00:32:06.740
be up on the wall when we went.
683
00:32:06.779 --> 00:32:09.240
There we go. Sorry, I'm so boring.
684
00:32:09.279 --> 00:32:09.759
No, you're not.
685
00:32:09.819 --> 00:32:11.660
That's good knowledge, actually.
686
00:32:11.680 --> 00:32:13.460
You forgot about your skin in everything.
687
00:32:13.480 --> 00:32:18.039
LAUGHTER But we basically did an experiment, right?
688
00:32:18.160 --> 00:32:21.079
That is too much information. That's good knowledge.
689
00:32:21.119 --> 00:32:25.299
That's really good knowledge. We basically went and did this experiment,
690
00:32:25.339 --> 00:32:29.009
which has never been done before. 21 days, these year rates,
691
00:32:29.089 --> 00:32:33.309
so 12-year-olds and 13-year-olds gave up all technology for 21 days,
692
00:32:33.529 --> 00:32:34.730
not just smartphones.
693
00:32:34.809 --> 00:32:35.670
What does that cover?
694
00:32:35.869 --> 00:32:42.289
TV? No, it didn't cover TV. So smartphones, laptops, gaming devices,
695
00:32:42.430 --> 00:32:46.130
and tablets, right? And with the University of York, we
696
00:32:46.339 --> 00:32:49.420
measured everything. And it will blow your mind when it
697
00:32:49.440 --> 00:32:51.920
comes out this week, I promise you. And when this
698
00:32:51.960 --> 00:32:54.119
comes out, people haven't seen it, go and watch it online.
699
00:32:54.200 --> 00:32:54.880
When will this go out?
700
00:32:54.900 --> 00:32:56.680
Can we ask what the result is? Because all this
701
00:32:56.700 --> 00:32:57.319
will go out after the TV show.
702
00:32:57.339 --> 00:32:58.539
Yeah, I can tell you the results now. I can
703
00:32:58.559 --> 00:32:59.339
tell you the results now.
704
00:32:59.359 --> 00:33:00.380
So basically after 21 days.
705
00:33:02.849 --> 00:33:05.339
The things that they, what was everyone concerned about beforehand?
706
00:33:05.359 --> 00:33:07.440
They were all concerned, oh, you know, what am I
707
00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:09.180
going to do? Like, I'm going to be left out.
708
00:33:09.220 --> 00:33:12.769
I'm going to feel socially less connected, right? Top line
709
00:33:12.809 --> 00:33:16.990
results after 21 days. They all, okay, so they all
710
00:33:17.029 --> 00:33:18.630
struggled for the first two or three days. They went
711
00:33:18.650 --> 00:33:20.910
through a kind of withdrawal, which I think.
712
00:33:20.829 --> 00:33:21.089
Says a lot.
713
00:33:21.109 --> 00:33:23.529
How old are these kids, sorry, that you're- 12 year old,
714
00:33:23.529 --> 00:33:26.890
12 and 13, right? So it reminded me a bit
715
00:33:26.930 --> 00:33:30.170
of when people go off sugar or they go off alcohol,
716
00:33:30.230 --> 00:33:32.109
which is I think quite telling in and of itself.
717
00:33:32.809 --> 00:33:35.470
Once they'd got through the withdrawal, most of them actually
718
00:33:35.490 --> 00:33:39.299
were loving it. And after 21 days, anxiety and depression
719
00:33:39.460 --> 00:33:44.700
significantly better. They felt more socially connected than the less,
720
00:33:44.779 --> 00:33:46.859
which is really interesting because that's what they were scared
721
00:33:46.920 --> 00:33:49.299
about because what were they doing? They were actually having
722
00:33:49.339 --> 00:33:52.599
more real world interactions where they were present and not
723
00:33:53.079 --> 00:33:56.569
all together, but distracted by their screens. And then check
724
00:33:56.609 --> 00:33:58.650
this out. And I think this is probably the most
725
00:33:58.710 --> 00:34:02.509
striking of all the findings. They were sleeping for one
726
00:34:02.730 --> 00:34:07.849
hour extra per night. One hour, right? Which is huge,
727
00:34:08.050 --> 00:34:11.880
especially at that age. Because when you don't sleep, You're
728
00:34:11.920 --> 00:34:15.719
more emotionally reactive. You're less able to resist temptation. You're
729
00:34:15.739 --> 00:34:18.559
more anxious. Your mood goes down. You eat more food.
730
00:34:18.579 --> 00:34:21.429
You feel worse about yourself and the world around you.
731
00:34:22.110 --> 00:34:25.429
And so I think this is a massive, massive issue.
732
00:34:25.449 --> 00:34:27.670
This is not about blame, right? I think every parent
733
00:34:28.210 --> 00:34:30.389
is trying to do the best that they can. But
734
00:34:30.409 --> 00:34:34.679
I think we've kind of allowed this technology to insidiously
735
00:34:34.820 --> 00:34:37.059
creep in to our children's lives.
736
00:34:38.039 --> 00:34:40.940
Do you think it needs to be, because obviously you
737
00:34:41.000 --> 00:34:43.780
get this situation. So my kids are, we're not there
738
00:34:43.820 --> 00:34:47.369
yet because they're three and seven. But you get this
739
00:34:47.409 --> 00:34:51.809
situation where, you know, I've heard people say what I'm
740
00:34:51.829 --> 00:34:53.130
going to do when we get to secondary school. All
741
00:34:53.150 --> 00:34:55.150
the parents are going to agree and we're not. But
742
00:34:55.170 --> 00:34:58.239
that's obviously a very difficult thing, you know. So it's
743
00:34:58.260 --> 00:35:00.369
going to come down to a thing of. your child
744
00:35:00.389 --> 00:35:02.829
saying that child's got it, I haven't got it or whatever.
745
00:35:02.849 --> 00:35:05.150
So what have you agreed to not until secondary school?
746
00:35:05.750 --> 00:35:07.289
No, I haven't done anything. But what I mean is
747
00:35:07.309 --> 00:35:10.389
I've heard parents say, but it needs to go to
748
00:35:10.409 --> 00:35:11.530
a governmental level.
749
00:35:11.869 --> 00:35:15.860
Yeah, so this is not, it's too hard for individuals
750
00:35:15.909 --> 00:35:20.019
to do this, individual parents, because peer pressure is massive.
751
00:35:20.619 --> 00:35:23.360
And what tends to happen with most people is a
752
00:35:23.400 --> 00:35:25.400
lot of people don't really want their kids to have
753
00:35:25.480 --> 00:35:28.460
these devices that early. but the kids will say everyone
754
00:35:28.480 --> 00:35:30.320
else has got them, right? Everyone else has got them.
755
00:35:30.340 --> 00:35:32.719
And you don't want your child to be a social outcast, right?
756
00:35:32.780 --> 00:35:37.610
So the solution has to come from multiple different areas, right?
757
00:35:38.309 --> 00:35:41.469
I definitely think all schools should be not allowing smartphones
758
00:35:41.510 --> 00:35:43.300
to be used during the school day.
759
00:35:43.440 --> 00:35:45.579
I don't think that's that controversial.
760
00:35:46.059 --> 00:35:49.690
It's not. There's some schools... So this is what the
761
00:35:49.710 --> 00:35:52.289
Stanley School actually did, although I think they've now changed
762
00:35:52.349 --> 00:35:54.010
it based upon the results. They said, keep it in
763
00:35:54.050 --> 00:35:57.230
your bags, keep it in your pockets. If we see
764
00:35:57.250 --> 00:36:00.170
you using it in a day, I'll be confiscated. They
765
00:36:00.210 --> 00:36:02.809
all use it in the day. You know what it's like.
766
00:36:02.829 --> 00:36:04.869
We all remember what it's like being a kid. So
767
00:36:05.250 --> 00:36:08.469
I think phones are here and they're here to stay, right?
768
00:36:09.980 --> 00:36:11.780
A lot of schools have this thing where you go in,
769
00:36:12.260 --> 00:36:14.659
you give your phone in, it's locked away, you get
770
00:36:14.699 --> 00:36:15.960
it back at the end of the day. I think
771
00:36:15.980 --> 00:36:19.139
that's a very simple, easy win that all schools can
772
00:36:19.199 --> 00:36:19.880
implement immediately.
773
00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:21.719
When you go and see American comedians do it a lot,
774
00:36:21.739 --> 00:36:24.159
they give you those little pouches where they seal them
775
00:36:24.599 --> 00:36:25.559
and then you can put it in your bag and
776
00:36:25.579 --> 00:36:27.570
then you can't get it out at all and then
777
00:36:27.590 --> 00:36:29.889
they can seal it on the way out. They do
778
00:36:29.909 --> 00:36:32.650
that for concerts. You can easily do that in your
779
00:36:32.690 --> 00:36:33.130
form room.
780
00:36:33.329 --> 00:36:37.769
You go in... Yeah, and I honestly think by the time, Josh,
781
00:36:37.829 --> 00:36:40.610
your kids are older, this situation will have been resolved.
782
00:36:40.750 --> 00:36:45.219
That's what I'm hopeful about. I've got a nine-year-old. Shit,
783
00:36:45.599 --> 00:36:46.280
could be on the cusp.
784
00:36:46.980 --> 00:36:49.500
Well, okay, so hold on. Do I think the government
785
00:36:49.519 --> 00:36:52.469
needs to do something? Absolutely. This reminds me of the
786
00:36:52.530 --> 00:36:57.269
junk food industry for years, right? Yeah, yeah. In every
787
00:36:57.349 --> 00:36:59.369
single one of my books, I think there's a case
788
00:36:59.409 --> 00:37:02.409
study of someone who's been negatively affected by social media.
789
00:37:03.010 --> 00:37:06.099
Because I've seen it 10 years ago, I saw a
790
00:37:06.099 --> 00:37:09.139
16-year-old child who'd harmed himself at the weekend in the
791
00:37:09.219 --> 00:37:10.840
A & E. They came to see me on the Monday.
792
00:37:11.639 --> 00:37:15.199
And without going into the whole case story, there's no
793
00:37:15.300 --> 00:37:17.760
question that it was his use of social media that
794
00:37:17.900 --> 00:37:20.699
led to that point. And actually by helping him get
795
00:37:20.800 --> 00:37:23.719
off those devices over a period of two or three months,
796
00:37:24.550 --> 00:37:28.710
his depression almost vanished, right? So I've seen it firsthand.
797
00:37:28.769 --> 00:37:31.599
And I think the government, honestly, I don't really get
798
00:37:31.619 --> 00:37:36.409
that political, but I think they've been shocking all of them, right? Honestly,
799
00:37:36.429 --> 00:37:38.570
they're sort of saying, oh, the tech companies, we want
800
00:37:38.610 --> 00:37:43.250
better rules. Expecting the tech companies to actually police this
801
00:37:43.829 --> 00:37:47.849
is ridiculous. You'll see on the show on Wednesday, TikTok
802
00:37:47.869 --> 00:37:51.909
released a statement. It's the most bland, ridiculous statement I've
803
00:37:51.949 --> 00:37:55.139
ever seen that their PR company wrote for them. TikTok
804
00:37:55.179 --> 00:37:57.639
is the most popular social media platform in this country
805
00:37:57.679 --> 00:38:01.119
between four And I think 13 or 14, and they're
806
00:38:01.139 --> 00:38:03.940
still maintaining that there are strict things. So you can't
807
00:38:03.980 --> 00:38:07.320
get on before you're 13, which is a complete joke, right?
808
00:38:07.460 --> 00:38:11.320
The government have to tell these guys what is acceptable,
809
00:38:11.340 --> 00:38:14.550
what is not acceptable. It's just like with junk food.
810
00:38:14.650 --> 00:38:20.489
If you're expecting Haribo to police... I mean, they're not
811
00:38:20.510 --> 00:38:22.389
going to do it because they're... And I'm not blaming
812
00:38:22.409 --> 00:38:23.869
them for not doing it. Well, of course, it's their business.
813
00:38:24.190 --> 00:38:25.369
It's their business, right?
814
00:38:25.489 --> 00:38:27.650
Which is why there's governments that do this to protect
815
00:38:27.670 --> 00:38:29.889
the country. It's like saying.
816
00:38:30.150 --> 00:38:32.170
It's like if I was to bring in.
817
00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:38.710
I'll only sell half full theatres because it'll help people
818
00:38:38.750 --> 00:38:39.449
get to the toilet.
819
00:38:39.670 --> 00:38:41.730
I'm not going to do that because it's your business.
820
00:38:41.750 --> 00:38:43.269
Do you know what I mean? Yeah, you need quarter full.
821
00:38:43.389 --> 00:38:44.349
Yeah, exactly.
822
00:38:44.449 --> 00:38:46.960
I do sell half full theatres, but that's not intended.
823
00:38:47.039 --> 00:38:48.059
It's a bad analogy.
824
00:38:48.639 --> 00:38:51.440
But I think what people don't realise, right, is this
825
00:38:51.460 --> 00:38:55.699
whole idea that We have rules across society to protect
826
00:38:55.760 --> 00:38:59.739
our children. Casinos, right? You can't go in when you're 12, right?
827
00:38:59.760 --> 00:39:01.579
You have to wait till you're 18 because we decide
828
00:39:01.599 --> 00:39:05.429
that as a society, no, children's wellbeing is important. We
829
00:39:05.469 --> 00:39:08.090
don't allow children at 12 to drink alcohol in the pub.
830
00:39:08.449 --> 00:39:09.750
We go, no, you've got to wait till you're 18, right?
831
00:39:09.869 --> 00:39:12.469
I'd rather my kid have two pints of beer or
832
00:39:12.489 --> 00:39:14.409
wait than fucking be on TikTok at 11, do you
833
00:39:14.429 --> 00:39:14.949
know what I mean?
834
00:39:15.150 --> 00:39:17.909
Well, that's a good point, you know? Because, you know,
835
00:39:17.949 --> 00:39:20.900
just remember what it was like as a child. At 12, 13, 14,
836
00:39:20.900 --> 00:39:23.800
you want to fit in.
837
00:39:24.480 --> 00:39:27.650
I'm so glad I didn't grow up on social media.
838
00:39:27.929 --> 00:39:29.469
I struggle with social media, you know.
839
00:39:30.559 --> 00:39:33.860
Personally, and this is a little controversial, but... Go for it.
840
00:39:33.929 --> 00:39:35.469
Just ban kids.
841
00:39:35.969 --> 00:39:40.909
Go the other way. Again, I think this comes to,
842
00:39:41.610 --> 00:39:43.550
just to connect this to a previous point, which is
843
00:39:43.570 --> 00:39:46.710
this idea that You know, when you're so dependent on
844
00:39:46.769 --> 00:39:50.150
external validation, like I used to be, you're often scared
845
00:39:50.170 --> 00:39:52.130
about speaking your mind because you don't want to offend people.
846
00:39:52.150 --> 00:39:53.659
You want people to like you and agree with you.
847
00:39:53.679 --> 00:39:56.719
Whereas now that I've kind of mostly dealt with that,
848
00:39:56.880 --> 00:39:59.539
like I really have, I really feel that, you know what?
849
00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:02.219
I actually quite like myself and how I behave and
850
00:40:02.239 --> 00:40:04.199
who I am in the world. I don't need the
851
00:40:04.239 --> 00:40:07.739
validation in the way that I used to. I actually
852
00:40:07.780 --> 00:40:10.000
don't think social media should be allowed probably before 18.
853
00:40:10.000 --> 00:40:12.639
I think we're going to see data in the next
854
00:40:12.659 --> 00:40:14.989
few years where we go, why on earth did we
855
00:40:15.070 --> 00:40:18.090
let these tech companies decide what's best for our kids?
856
00:40:18.230 --> 00:40:20.650
Why don't we decide what's best for our kids? Frankly,
857
00:40:20.829 --> 00:40:23.010
we struggle as adults with social media.
858
00:40:23.949 --> 00:40:27.789
How is your, what's your relationship with your phone and
859
00:40:27.829 --> 00:40:31.530
social media like? Because mine is terrible and I beat
860
00:40:31.570 --> 00:40:36.920
myself up constantly about it, but I don't know what
861
00:40:36.940 --> 00:40:41.050
I can do really beyond... The only way I manage
862
00:40:41.070 --> 00:40:42.849
to manage my phone is if I just put it
863
00:40:42.869 --> 00:40:44.809
in the other room. And then actually I don't think
864
00:40:44.869 --> 00:40:46.179
about it when I'm not with it.
865
00:40:46.190 --> 00:40:47.139
What if I'm with it?
866
00:40:47.199 --> 00:40:47.599
It's here now.
867
00:40:47.610 --> 00:40:49.679
You need it for work though, to a point in
868
00:40:50.059 --> 00:40:52.239
our job. But then that can sometimes be a lazy excuse.
869
00:40:52.539 --> 00:40:53.360
Yeah.
870
00:40:53.480 --> 00:40:56.880
There's a couple of really important points there, right? So firstly...
871
00:40:56.920 --> 00:40:59.460
We have to understand that it's not a human failing.
872
00:40:59.500 --> 00:41:01.599
It's not a failing of you. It's not a failing
873
00:41:01.619 --> 00:41:04.940
of your children. These things are designed to be addictive
874
00:41:05.000 --> 00:41:08.460
and hijack your attention, right? So there is, you know,
875
00:41:08.739 --> 00:41:11.019
we have to be a bit compassionate to ourselves and go,
876
00:41:11.340 --> 00:41:14.880
it's not like we have a moral problem or failing
877
00:41:14.929 --> 00:41:17.949
in ourselves. These things are really, really difficult. Okay, so
878
00:41:18.030 --> 00:41:19.829
what can we do? You asked me what was my
879
00:41:19.869 --> 00:41:23.429
relationship like. You know, I used to overuse it like everyone, right?
880
00:41:23.469 --> 00:41:27.969
And I definitely can fall into that trap again, unless
881
00:41:27.989 --> 00:41:31.769
I'm really careful. My daughter, when she was four, I
882
00:41:31.809 --> 00:41:34.730
think gave me one of the most powerful lessons in this, right?
883
00:41:34.750 --> 00:41:38.010
It was a Sunday and well, she's 12 now, so
884
00:41:38.030 --> 00:41:39.840
it's about eight years ago, right? It was a Sunday.
885
00:41:39.940 --> 00:41:42.769
And I remember, I don't know, This tells you, I
886
00:41:42.789 --> 00:41:45.769
can't remember what was going on online, but it felt
887
00:41:45.869 --> 00:41:48.559
really important to me on that Sunday. And I was
888
00:41:48.659 --> 00:41:50.880
playing with her in our living room, but I kept,
889
00:41:51.300 --> 00:41:52.559
so I've always had this thing that I don't want
890
00:41:52.579 --> 00:41:54.440
to be on the phone much around my children. So
891
00:41:54.519 --> 00:41:58.159
I'm actually not on it much around them because I
892
00:41:58.260 --> 00:42:01.239
don't want to give them the signal that, this thing
893
00:42:01.300 --> 00:42:04.360
is more important than you. I'm not blaming anyone who does, right,
894
00:42:04.400 --> 00:42:06.320
to be really clear. I'm just saying it's something I've
895
00:42:06.380 --> 00:42:09.099
tried not to do. But what I did instead is
896
00:42:09.460 --> 00:42:11.079
I was playing with her. Then every few minutes, I'd
897
00:42:11.099 --> 00:42:14.030
just nip out into the kitchen and, you know, I'd
898
00:42:14.050 --> 00:42:16.289
just have a little cheeky look. Then I'd go back
899
00:42:16.329 --> 00:42:18.829
and play with her. And then at one point, she said, hey, Daddy,
900
00:42:19.670 --> 00:42:20.909
you're not really here, are you?
901
00:42:22.289 --> 00:42:24.409
Oh, God. That would destroy me.
902
00:42:25.030 --> 00:42:27.090
It did. It was like a dagger into my heart.
903
00:42:27.210 --> 00:42:27.800
And I thought.
904
00:42:28.909 --> 00:42:30.829
You should have filmed your reaction. It would have gone.
905
00:42:32.550 --> 00:42:32.809
Viral.
906
00:42:32.829 --> 00:42:33.949
Just heard saying that.
907
00:42:33.989 --> 00:42:34.690
Then I watched it.
908
00:42:34.710 --> 00:42:37.150
That would be great. On TikTok. They had TikTok eight
909
00:42:37.190 --> 00:42:37.510
years ago.
910
00:42:37.630 --> 00:42:38.510
I don't know if they did, actually.
911
00:42:38.530 --> 00:42:39.320
Could have been the first one.
912
00:42:39.889 --> 00:42:43.679
It could have been the first viral video on TikTok. Sorry.
913
00:42:43.760 --> 00:42:46.780
I don't know if you guys agree with this or not,
914
00:42:46.800 --> 00:42:49.360
but I think children teach us so much more than
915
00:42:49.400 --> 00:42:51.030
we teach them. Totally.
916
00:42:51.570 --> 00:42:55.429
My entire childhood has been reflected back at me as
917
00:42:55.489 --> 00:42:57.670
my children have got older, where I've looked at it
918
00:42:57.710 --> 00:42:59.210
and decided on what my approach would be.
919
00:42:59.269 --> 00:43:01.349
How was I parented at that point?
920
00:43:01.670 --> 00:43:03.530
And then you start to find out more about yourself
921
00:43:03.969 --> 00:43:06.170
because you look back on that period of your life
922
00:43:06.289 --> 00:43:09.059
and when you were with your kids. 100%, that's what
923
00:43:09.099 --> 00:43:10.030
I've noticed.
924
00:43:10.719 --> 00:43:13.429
I completely agree. And also, I have a lot... Not
925
00:43:13.449 --> 00:43:15.889
that I didn't respect my parents at all. I've always
926
00:43:15.929 --> 00:43:17.670
respected them, but I feel now.
927
00:43:17.690 --> 00:43:18.989
Well, you cut your hair and became a doctor, so
928
00:43:19.030 --> 00:43:19.940
you definitely did respect them.
929
00:43:20.429 --> 00:43:22.920
I did, but I also feel now I have such
930
00:43:22.940 --> 00:43:26.440
a deeper appreciation for what they did for me. I'm like, oh, wow.
931
00:43:27.059 --> 00:43:30.559
You don't really realize until you're a parent yourself. You're like, oh,
932
00:43:30.599 --> 00:43:33.019
you juggled work and this and you took us here
933
00:43:33.079 --> 00:43:34.119
on a holiday and you did.
934
00:43:34.659 --> 00:43:35.000
Oh, wow.
935
00:43:35.039 --> 00:43:35.239
Yeah.
936
00:43:35.260 --> 00:43:38.139
Thanks, guys. I really appreciate that. That must have been really,
937
00:43:38.159 --> 00:43:40.619
really hard. But so my daughter, that was a very
938
00:43:40.679 --> 00:43:45.730
powerful lesson for me. And you said, Josh, something really important.
939
00:43:45.750 --> 00:43:49.050
If you keep it in another room. That is game changing.
940
00:43:49.389 --> 00:43:51.750
It really is. One of the most important rules about
941
00:43:51.789 --> 00:43:55.590
human behavior is if you make something easy, we will
942
00:43:55.639 --> 00:43:59.320
do it. It's how all business operates. When Amazon went
943
00:43:59.340 --> 00:44:02.400
to one click ordering about 10 years ago or so,
944
00:44:02.980 --> 00:44:06.469
estimates say their profits went up by $ 300 million a
945
00:44:06.730 --> 00:44:08.269
year from that one move.
946
00:44:08.849 --> 00:44:09.050
Why?
947
00:44:09.070 --> 00:44:12.269
Because they made it easy. There was four or five
948
00:44:12.329 --> 00:44:16.110
steps to take. confirm order, put in your card details,
949
00:44:16.550 --> 00:44:19.820
et cetera, et cetera. Every single step is a reason
950
00:44:19.860 --> 00:44:22.320
to pull out and not make the purchase. Whereas now
951
00:44:23.320 --> 00:44:26.019
you blink and something's arriving later that evening, right? It's
952
00:44:26.059 --> 00:44:29.039
that easy. You do it. That's why Netflix and YouTube
953
00:44:29.119 --> 00:44:31.139
run one video into the next. It's not out of
954
00:44:31.159 --> 00:44:33.619
the goodness of their hearts. It's because if they make
955
00:44:33.679 --> 00:44:35.760
it easy, you'll do it. So we can apply the
956
00:44:35.820 --> 00:44:39.019
same principle when it comes to our phone. Simply putting
957
00:44:39.059 --> 00:44:43.389
it in a different room actually will dramatically reduce your usage.
958
00:44:43.429 --> 00:44:46.000
That's one thing you can do. I think also we
959
00:44:46.019 --> 00:44:49.190
need to develop some cultural norms around phone use. So
960
00:44:49.210 --> 00:44:52.170
we have that with other things, right? So 20 years ago,
961
00:44:52.190 --> 00:44:54.369
you didn't sit at the dinner table with your family
962
00:44:54.409 --> 00:44:57.809
and bring the landline there, you know? It was kind
963
00:44:57.829 --> 00:45:00.269
of accepted that, you know- Put a newspaper out, you'd
964
00:45:00.289 --> 00:45:02.590
be like, put that away, we're having dinner, you know? Yeah,
965
00:45:02.659 --> 00:45:04.260
whereas it seems to be like, we've got a phone
966
00:45:04.280 --> 00:45:06.960
which is much more than a landline or a newspaper.
967
00:45:06.980 --> 00:45:10.059
It's literally got anything. You know, there's research showing us
968
00:45:10.079 --> 00:45:12.940
that when a phone is around, we smile 30% less.
969
00:45:13.019 --> 00:45:14.760
Yeah. Right.
970
00:45:15.159 --> 00:45:18.139
That's how, because the problem is that your brain knows
971
00:45:18.309 --> 00:45:21.829
on the other side of this thing is anything you
972
00:45:21.869 --> 00:45:26.730
could possibly want. Exactly. So I think we need some rules.
973
00:45:26.969 --> 00:45:30.869
I think some good principles in family households are at
974
00:45:30.909 --> 00:45:36.579
the dinner table. I think they should be technology free areas. Again,
975
00:45:36.719 --> 00:45:38.260
I don't like to prescribe to people what they should
976
00:45:38.300 --> 00:45:41.579
be doing. I'm sharing this in case it's useful. An
977
00:45:41.599 --> 00:45:45.679
electric carving knife. Electric carving knife. I would permit that.
978
00:45:45.719 --> 00:45:50.630
That's true. As long as there's something to carve. Yeah,
979
00:45:50.650 --> 00:45:52.409
that's mental if there's something to carve.
980
00:45:52.429 --> 00:45:54.030
Yeah, not just for fun. What are you doing, Dad?
981
00:45:55.530 --> 00:45:56.130
What about your kids?
982
00:45:56.170 --> 00:45:58.110
What are the rules on social media? Are they allowed
983
00:45:58.130 --> 00:45:59.429
social media? Have they got phones?
984
00:46:00.010 --> 00:46:05.909
So, look, at 14 and 12... They're not on social media, right?
985
00:46:06.289 --> 00:46:08.550
And I think my son might be the only kid
986
00:46:08.570 --> 00:46:12.880
in his year who's not on Snapchat. Now, I have
987
00:46:12.900 --> 00:46:15.500
a very open dialogue with him about this. I'll tell
988
00:46:15.519 --> 00:46:20.670
you my problem is I have seen multiple suicidal teenagers
989
00:46:20.730 --> 00:46:24.710
over the past 10 years who I'm strongly against. suspect
990
00:46:24.769 --> 00:46:27.010
social media was a huge part of it. I cannot
991
00:46:27.090 --> 00:46:29.090
do that to my children knowing that.
992
00:46:29.639 --> 00:46:31.380
Is he okay with it or is he trying to.
993
00:46:31.489 --> 00:46:35.179
Look, so my wife and I have multiple conversations with
994
00:46:35.199 --> 00:46:39.000
him on this. I genuinely think he is unless he's
995
00:46:39.139 --> 00:46:42.639
saying what we want to hear and not telling us, right?
996
00:46:43.119 --> 00:46:45.820
But we do have an open dialogue and I do say, son,
997
00:46:46.199 --> 00:46:48.920
if you're not happy or please do share it with
998
00:46:48.980 --> 00:46:51.980
us because we want to know that. I don't think
999
00:46:52.019 --> 00:46:53.900
he is. So I'll tell you what my kids have.
1000
00:46:53.940 --> 00:46:57.989
They've got, they've got, they do have smartphones, but this is,
1001
00:46:58.030 --> 00:46:59.530
I think the conversation we're not having.
1002
00:46:59.590 --> 00:46:59.829
Right.
1003
00:47:00.489 --> 00:47:03.090
So I didn't say my daughter's 12.
1004
00:47:03.090 --> 00:47:03.269
Right.
1005
00:47:03.409 --> 00:47:06.130
I did not. She's in year seven. So first, you know,
1006
00:47:06.489 --> 00:47:08.309
I still have to get it into old money, but
1007
00:47:08.389 --> 00:47:11.320
you know, first year at high school basically is, is
1008
00:47:11.360 --> 00:47:14.599
what she's now in. She did not have a phone
1009
00:47:14.619 --> 00:47:17.460
until the first year. And I, over the summer, I
1010
00:47:17.760 --> 00:47:20.460
hated it. I was like, She kept saying, daddy, I'm
1011
00:47:20.480 --> 00:47:23.059
going to be the only kid without one. I'm like, yeah, darling,
1012
00:47:23.079 --> 00:47:24.739
but you know, can we, so I got them a
1013
00:47:24.760 --> 00:47:27.199
whole series of dumb phones. I got them the light phone.
1014
00:47:27.280 --> 00:47:29.820
I went through everything and she's like, daddy, everyone's going
1015
00:47:29.840 --> 00:47:32.639
to laugh at me. They've all got the latest smartphones.
1016
00:47:33.360 --> 00:47:36.030
So I said, okay, what is it you want this for?
1017
00:47:36.230 --> 00:47:40.230
She goes, well, everyone messages on these phones and there's
1018
00:47:40.289 --> 00:47:43.050
WhatsApp groups. I said, okay, is there anything else you want?
1019
00:47:43.949 --> 00:47:46.030
She said, no. I said, okay, then how about then
1020
00:47:46.050 --> 00:47:49.059
we get one of my old iPhones and and we
1021
00:47:49.099 --> 00:47:52.119
will just put on messages and WhatsApp.
1022
00:47:52.420 --> 00:47:52.619
Yeah.
1023
00:47:53.300 --> 00:47:55.179
And she said, yeah. I said, is there anything else
1024
00:47:55.199 --> 00:47:57.360
you want? Do you want a camera? No, you want nothing.
1025
00:47:57.400 --> 00:48:01.079
So literally she has got like a six-year-old iPhone. It's
1026
00:48:01.179 --> 00:48:03.179
basically a dumb phone because all you can do on
1027
00:48:03.239 --> 00:48:04.909
it is text and WhatsApp.
1028
00:48:04.929 --> 00:48:07.250
Yeah, because you don't alienate them more where they can't message,
1029
00:48:07.289 --> 00:48:10.010
but then Snapchat and all that's a different kettle of fish.
1030
00:48:10.210 --> 00:48:10.449
Yeah.
1031
00:48:10.530 --> 00:48:14.070
Because on Roblox and stuff they can message on, because
1032
00:48:14.090 --> 00:48:16.329
they'll find a way to message because there's a million
1033
00:48:16.349 --> 00:48:18.150
different things. So if they're on Roblox, like they can
1034
00:48:18.190 --> 00:48:22.119
message- friends in a chat function on that. But yeah,
1035
00:48:22.139 --> 00:48:23.519
you don't want them on full social media, but I
1036
00:48:23.519 --> 00:48:25.420
think letting them have WhatsApps are good.
1037
00:48:25.639 --> 00:48:28.719
So look, I think it comes down to an intentional approach.
1038
00:48:28.760 --> 00:48:30.750
And I think, frankly, as adults, we can actually ask
1039
00:48:30.789 --> 00:48:33.369
ourselves the same question. What are the apps on here
1040
00:48:33.389 --> 00:48:35.690
that are enhancing our life and which are the ones
1041
00:48:35.730 --> 00:48:37.610
which are taken away from our life? Because what a
1042
00:48:37.670 --> 00:48:41.320
lot of us do is we just allow these tech
1043
00:48:41.340 --> 00:48:43.239
companies to tell us what to put on them. It's like, yeah,
1044
00:48:43.280 --> 00:48:46.300
I'll have all this stuff on them. But you could go, well, actually,
1045
00:48:46.340 --> 00:48:49.980
these two apps, like Google Maps, for example, brilliant, really
1046
00:48:50.019 --> 00:48:52.420
like it, helps me. Or whatever it might be, you
1047
00:48:52.460 --> 00:48:57.699
can choose. So they don't have Safari on their phone, right?
1048
00:48:57.719 --> 00:49:02.059
Because I think unrestricted internet access is also a massive problem.
1049
00:49:02.639 --> 00:49:04.599
And guys, wait till you see on Wednesday night the
1050
00:49:05.119 --> 00:49:12.710
pornography statistics. It's scary as hell. One in four 11-year-olds
1051
00:49:13.409 --> 00:49:17.369
in the UK have already seen pornography, right? One in four.
1052
00:49:18.230 --> 00:49:19.969
And there's been studies on this.
1053
00:49:20.019 --> 00:49:22.179
Oh yeah, I've balanced it the other way.
1054
00:49:23.099 --> 00:49:23.400
Sorry.
1055
00:49:24.039 --> 00:49:27.980
But the first time a new user goes on one
1056
00:49:28.019 --> 00:49:32.949
of the world's most popular pornographic websites, there is a very,
1057
00:49:33.010 --> 00:49:35.250
very high chance that they are either going to see
1058
00:49:35.570 --> 00:49:42.030
non-consensual sex or violence, right? This is how alarming this
1059
00:49:42.070 --> 00:49:44.789
situation is, right? We're having our kids now are being
1060
00:49:44.849 --> 00:49:49.400
exposed to some pretty graphic and worrying material at a very,
1061
00:49:49.539 --> 00:49:52.900
very young age. Of course, that's going to impact their
1062
00:49:52.940 --> 00:49:54.940
view of intimacy and what it means to be in
1063
00:49:54.960 --> 00:49:57.480
a relationship and stuff. So I kind of think that
1064
00:49:57.900 --> 00:50:00.699
we as a society have to, all of us collectively
1065
00:50:00.760 --> 00:50:03.219
come together and go, okay, enough's enough. Like, what can
1066
00:50:03.280 --> 00:50:05.610
we do here? But I do think the government needs
1067
00:50:05.630 --> 00:50:06.389
to take charge here.
1068
00:50:06.449 --> 00:50:07.349
Do you think it will happen?
1069
00:50:09.380 --> 00:50:11.940
The only way is a governmental way where they can
1070
00:50:11.980 --> 00:50:15.610
put blocks on certain things or, you know, ban kids
1071
00:50:15.849 --> 00:50:16.349
from stuff.
1072
00:50:16.409 --> 00:50:17.530
And it needs to be law, I think.
1073
00:50:18.110 --> 00:50:20.429
The sad thing is, right, on that very first day
1074
00:50:20.449 --> 00:50:23.469
when we were filming, right, the very first day, all
1075
00:50:23.510 --> 00:50:26.329
the children put in their phones and their technology into
1076
00:50:26.389 --> 00:50:29.230
a box in the school, kind of, in one of
1077
00:50:29.250 --> 00:50:32.630
the big rooms. You know, it's a telly. It looks really... cool,
1078
00:50:32.650 --> 00:50:35.150
you see in this glass box all of the devices
1079
00:50:35.190 --> 00:50:38.570
going in. And then that evening, me, Matt, and Emma Willis,
1080
00:50:38.610 --> 00:50:41.500
we had an evening with the parents. And only a
1081
00:50:41.539 --> 00:50:44.179
little bit ultimately makes the edit, right, which we see.
1082
00:50:44.199 --> 00:50:47.260
But I tell you, pretty much every parent said to us,
1083
00:50:48.760 --> 00:50:53.150
I feel we've lost our children to their devices. And
1084
00:50:53.170 --> 00:50:55.539
then when you ask them, none of them really want
1085
00:50:55.599 --> 00:50:59.780
their children on those devices. They're just giving them to
1086
00:50:59.860 --> 00:51:02.300
them so they can fit in with everyone around them.
1087
00:51:02.429 --> 00:51:04.070
And I thought, as I went back to the hotel
1088
00:51:04.110 --> 00:51:06.550
that night, I thought, this is ridiculous. Parents say we're
1089
00:51:06.630 --> 00:51:10.190
losing our kids to devices. We don't want them on it.
1090
00:51:10.719 --> 00:51:14.300
It's affecting them negatively. It's affecting their relationships. But we're
1091
00:51:14.380 --> 00:51:17.380
all doing it because we think everyone else is on it.
1092
00:51:17.380 --> 00:51:19.539
I thought, this is madness. We must be able to
1093
00:51:19.559 --> 00:51:21.340
step back and go, wait a minute. If we're not
1094
00:51:21.420 --> 00:51:23.420
wanting this, let's do something about it.
1095
00:51:23.420 --> 00:51:25.300
They just don't want to be left out from smoking.
1096
00:51:25.639 --> 00:51:28.449
So I've given them some cigarettes because everyone's smoking.
1097
00:51:28.469 --> 00:51:30.510
But guys, we don't see it like that, but we
1098
00:51:30.530 --> 00:51:33.389
should do. Yeah, it's the same thing. It really is.
1099
00:51:33.550 --> 00:51:37.409
I think I use my phone in the same way
1100
00:51:37.429 --> 00:51:41.500
that People do smoke in the sense of if I'm stressed,
1101
00:51:41.619 --> 00:51:44.059
it takes me out of the situation. Yeah. If I'm
1102
00:51:44.099 --> 00:51:47.489
in a situation where it's kind of... It's almost... It's
1103
00:51:47.550 --> 00:51:51.190
just a crutch to... Like, if I'm not feeling very good,
1104
00:51:51.369 --> 00:51:52.809
I'll go on my phone a lot more.
1105
00:51:52.849 --> 00:51:55.090
The problem is, though, I find with that, is that
1106
00:51:55.130 --> 00:51:57.900
society's built around... needing a phone so if i want
1107
00:51:57.920 --> 00:52:00.099
to go and park my car i could have my
1108
00:52:00.159 --> 00:52:03.360
bank card with me and cash and park my car
1109
00:52:03.400 --> 00:52:06.500
and they'll go ring the app or ring the number
1110
00:52:06.599 --> 00:52:09.010
or download the app and i'm like well so i
1111
00:52:09.050 --> 00:52:11.110
have to have a phone to exist now just little
1112
00:52:11.130 --> 00:52:13.489
bits like that is so hard to get around anywhere
1113
00:52:13.510 --> 00:52:16.250
or do stuff so it is like but if they
1114
00:52:16.289 --> 00:52:18.309
can put blocks on stuff i think i don't know
1115
00:52:18.349 --> 00:52:18.869
it's definitely a.
1116
00:52:18.829 --> 00:52:21.219
Governmental level it's a great point it is getting harder
1117
00:52:21.260 --> 00:52:23.320
and harder there's no question so i think for children
1118
00:52:23.340 --> 00:52:24.780
i think we need to be a bit stricter like
1119
00:52:24.840 --> 00:52:29.210
we are with alcohol with gambling, with all those kinds
1120
00:52:29.230 --> 00:52:32.210
of things. I think as adults, we all have to
1121
00:52:32.269 --> 00:52:34.659
figure out what are the things that we can do.
1122
00:52:34.929 --> 00:52:36.960
If I bring my, I live in a house, if
1123
00:52:37.019 --> 00:52:41.059
I bring my phone upstairs in the evening, I can't
1124
00:52:41.099 --> 00:52:44.019
resist going on it. So when I'm living my best life,
1125
00:52:44.539 --> 00:52:47.820
the phone stays in the kitchen to charge, right? And
1126
00:52:47.900 --> 00:52:49.820
when the phone stays downstairs in the kitchen to charge,
1127
00:52:50.510 --> 00:52:53.940
like everything's better, like I have better sleep, I'm more chilled.
1128
00:52:54.039 --> 00:52:55.500
I always go, but I need it for my alarm
1129
00:52:55.519 --> 00:52:56.699
as if alarm clocks don't exist.
1130
00:52:58.320 --> 00:53:00.610
I know, that's one of the worst excuses we all make.
1131
00:53:00.639 --> 00:53:01.230
It's pathetic.
1132
00:53:01.250 --> 00:53:03.150
You could just get a five foot alarm clock.
1133
00:53:04.570 --> 00:53:06.590
But the other thing is I'm, I'm a bit old school.
1134
00:53:06.650 --> 00:53:09.010
I still got a landline. I don't know if you
1135
00:53:09.050 --> 00:53:09.670
guys have a landline.
1136
00:53:09.989 --> 00:53:10.949
No, no, no.
1137
00:53:10.969 --> 00:53:12.329
You were allowed to say that. Is that, does that
1138
00:53:12.369 --> 00:53:13.230
make sense?
1139
00:53:13.269 --> 00:53:13.949
I'm fascinated.
1140
00:53:13.969 --> 00:53:15.849
You're not going to get canceled, mate. Don't panic.
1141
00:53:16.809 --> 00:53:19.489
So the reason I've got a landline is, is because
1142
00:53:19.530 --> 00:53:21.820
it really helps me with this phone issue, which is
1143
00:53:22.610 --> 00:53:26.679
only my very, only my family, like my mom, my brother,
1144
00:53:26.760 --> 00:53:30.840
and my really close mates have my landline number, which
1145
00:53:30.900 --> 00:53:34.489
basically means I can in the evening, uh, uh, you know, when,
1146
00:53:34.670 --> 00:53:36.969
when I want to, I can switch off this smartphone.
1147
00:53:37.070 --> 00:53:40.719
And I know basically anyone who really needs to get
1148
00:53:40.760 --> 00:53:44.619
me about something important can do. And I tell you,
1149
00:53:44.659 --> 00:53:45.099
it's the.
1150
00:53:45.039 --> 00:53:48.420
Other excuse you make to yourself. What if, you know,
1151
00:53:48.579 --> 00:53:50.719
someone I know has a heart attack or whatever, do
1152
00:53:50.739 --> 00:53:51.699
you know what I mean? What are you going to
1153
00:53:51.739 --> 00:53:53.090
do to fucking sort it out?
1154
00:53:53.289 --> 00:53:53.690
I know.
1155
00:53:53.789 --> 00:53:57.769
What am I going to do if suddenly someone needs
1156
00:53:57.829 --> 00:54:00.989
to get in touch with me? That's what's that's that
1157
00:54:01.530 --> 00:54:05.929
your alarm, your kind of, um, I'll do the one
1158
00:54:05.969 --> 00:54:07.929
I need it for work so much in my head.
1159
00:54:08.570 --> 00:54:10.730
Can I tell you one of the bigger, more philosophical
1160
00:54:10.769 --> 00:54:12.570
things that I think is the issue with our children
1161
00:54:12.590 --> 00:54:14.750
having these devices? And you kind of touched on it
1162
00:54:14.809 --> 00:54:17.510
with what you guys said before about when you feel
1163
00:54:17.530 --> 00:54:20.239
a bit uncomfortable and things aren't going well, you distract
1164
00:54:20.260 --> 00:54:23.679
yourself by anything on this, which is what we all do, right?
1165
00:54:23.780 --> 00:54:27.800
When we feel a discomfort, that genuinely, the central message
1166
00:54:27.860 --> 00:54:30.000
in this new book of mine, Make Change at Last,
1167
00:54:30.280 --> 00:54:32.539
is basically saying the reason we can't make changes that
1168
00:54:32.579 --> 00:54:37.519
last is It's because we're not understanding the role. You know,
1169
00:54:37.659 --> 00:54:40.980
every single behavior in our life serves a role. Too
1170
00:54:41.000 --> 00:54:43.659
often we try and change the behavior without understanding the
1171
00:54:43.780 --> 00:54:46.369
role it plays in our life. When you understand the role,
1172
00:54:46.889 --> 00:54:49.489
behavior change actually becomes a lot easier. But when it
1173
00:54:49.530 --> 00:54:53.769
comes to children, if you as a well-functioning, I think
1174
00:54:53.809 --> 00:54:55.769
I could call you a well-functioning adult. Is that?
1175
00:54:55.909 --> 00:54:57.030
Yeah, I reckon Rob is, yeah.
1176
00:54:57.559 --> 00:54:59.530
Now, I think most of the time you are, Josh.
1177
00:54:59.639 --> 00:55:01.070
You're having a tough week.
1178
00:55:01.110 --> 00:55:02.409
I'm going to say, Josh, from what I've seen today,
1179
00:55:02.449 --> 00:55:04.530
I think you're a well-functioning adult, right? Oh, thank you.
1180
00:55:04.570 --> 00:55:05.969
And that's an official diagnosis.
1181
00:55:06.110 --> 00:55:10.710
So if you are saying, at your age now, with
1182
00:55:10.809 --> 00:55:14.449
all your life experience, you are using a phone to
1183
00:55:14.489 --> 00:55:18.469
distract yourself, what does that do to a child, right?
1184
00:55:18.679 --> 00:55:21.320
Everything good in our life comes from our ability to
1185
00:55:21.360 --> 00:55:26.480
be present, right? Our relationships, our work, our creativity, whatever
1186
00:55:26.519 --> 00:55:30.019
it might be. And my real worry, we can talk about, yes,
1187
00:55:30.059 --> 00:55:32.530
they're accessing pornography. Yes, that worries me. We need to
1188
00:55:32.570 --> 00:55:35.610
change that. But I think there's a much bigger, broader
1189
00:55:35.650 --> 00:55:38.590
view here, which is if we're teaching little humans now
1190
00:55:39.170 --> 00:55:42.010
that you never have to sit with discomfort. You never
1191
00:55:42.070 --> 00:55:45.019
have to understand what you're feeling because there's always a
1192
00:55:45.079 --> 00:55:49.460
quick fix. I worry in 10, 20 years what kind
1193
00:55:49.500 --> 00:55:52.519
of society we're going to have. If you cannot sit
1194
00:55:52.539 --> 00:55:56.840
with discomfort, you cannot really make meaningful changes in your
1195
00:55:56.860 --> 00:56:00.380
life for good. You really can't. We can talk about addictions,
1196
00:56:00.440 --> 00:56:02.039
but I would argue that most of us have got
1197
00:56:02.079 --> 00:56:05.659
these low-grade addictions now in society. They may not need
1198
00:56:05.719 --> 00:56:11.309
Alcoholics Anonymous. right? But maybe if smartphones anonymous existed, maybe
1199
00:56:11.349 --> 00:56:13.349
many of us would be sort of signing up, right?
1200
00:56:13.789 --> 00:56:16.610
So I think that ability to be present is something
1201
00:56:16.630 --> 00:56:18.929
we really need to teach our children. I think the
1202
00:56:18.949 --> 00:56:22.349
other uncomfortable truth for many of us is, look, I've
1203
00:56:22.369 --> 00:56:25.469
been a parent now for almost 15 years, right? I
1204
00:56:25.469 --> 00:56:27.889
would say the number one thing I've learned is that
1205
00:56:27.929 --> 00:56:31.360
children don't do what you tell them to do. They
1206
00:56:31.380 --> 00:56:38.230
do what they see you doing, right? That's we can't
1207
00:56:38.250 --> 00:56:40.409
really tell our kids to get off their devices if
1208
00:56:40.449 --> 00:56:42.929
we're also scrolling our email at the same time.
1209
00:56:43.010 --> 00:56:45.070
I think we have to use that on TikTok in
1210
00:56:45.090 --> 00:56:45.630
the front row.
1211
00:56:46.409 --> 00:56:48.909
Yeah, so I think we also, again, it's not about blame.
1212
00:56:48.969 --> 00:56:51.119
It's just about saying, well, maybe we can look at
1213
00:56:51.139 --> 00:56:53.340
our own behaviours a little bit, particularly in front of
1214
00:56:53.380 --> 00:56:55.260
the children and go, well, what sort of behaviours are
1215
00:56:55.300 --> 00:56:57.480
we modelling to our children?
1216
00:56:58.300 --> 00:57:00.059
Yeah, absolutely fascinating.
1217
00:57:00.079 --> 00:57:00.539
It's amazing.
1218
00:57:00.559 --> 00:57:02.480
We'll have to get you back on to do another one.
1219
00:57:02.579 --> 00:57:06.829
I've loved this. Can we ask you, your podcast, which is,
1220
00:57:07.510 --> 00:57:12.789
Absolutely massive. And incredibly, I'm sure you've got the stats
1221
00:57:12.829 --> 00:57:15.389
of who listens, but both of our mother-in-laws are huge fans.
1222
00:57:15.949 --> 00:57:20.989
What percentage of listeners are mother-in-laws to your podcast?
1223
00:57:21.530 --> 00:57:22.670
It's 100% in this room.
1224
00:57:22.969 --> 00:57:24.869
I think what I'll do is I'll phone Apple and
1225
00:57:24.889 --> 00:57:27.409
Spotify and say, guys, listen, when you give us the demographics,
1226
00:57:28.050 --> 00:57:29.860
you don't have a mother-in-law category.
1227
00:57:29.949 --> 00:57:30.139
Yeah.
1228
00:57:31.219 --> 00:57:33.119
And Rob and Josh think that would be a very
1229
00:57:33.260 --> 00:57:35.420
useful demographic to understand.
1230
00:57:36.179 --> 00:57:38.480
Or mother-in-laws of comedians.
1231
00:57:38.519 --> 00:57:41.320
I actually don't know.
1232
00:57:42.159 --> 00:57:44.429
Feel Better, Live More. That's a great title.
1233
00:57:44.449 --> 00:57:47.909
Feel Better, Live More. And what's your most recent book?
1234
00:57:48.190 --> 00:57:48.590
It's called.
1235
00:57:49.559 --> 00:57:52.280
Well, the one that comes out now, the brand new
1236
00:57:52.300 --> 00:57:56.179
one is called Make Change That Lasts, which I think
1237
00:57:56.219 --> 00:57:58.099
it's my best one yet. It's my sixth one. It's
1238
00:57:58.500 --> 00:58:00.780
nine simple ways to break free from the habits that
1239
00:58:00.820 --> 00:58:03.300
hold you back. And it's not that unrelated to this
1240
00:58:03.360 --> 00:58:05.389
conversation with you. It's like, how do you actually make
1241
00:58:05.510 --> 00:58:08.030
change in your life that lasts? How do you make
1242
00:58:08.070 --> 00:58:10.050
change beyond January, beyond February?
1243
00:58:10.329 --> 00:58:12.869
If it gets to number 20 and no higher in
1244
00:58:12.909 --> 00:58:14.110
the charts, how are we feeling?
1245
00:58:15.989 --> 00:58:18.500
Now, this is a, you mean, I've got a great
1246
00:58:18.559 --> 00:58:19.079
answer for this, I think.
1247
00:58:19.119 --> 00:58:21.039
First time you've been stuck for words.
1248
00:58:21.059 --> 00:58:23.760
No, you know, the truth is, right, honestly, and I
1249
00:58:23.860 --> 00:58:25.690
know this is going to be a bit of a
1250
00:58:25.710 --> 00:58:29.369
serious answer, right? I'm totally okay with that. And I'll
1251
00:58:29.389 --> 00:58:33.619
tell you why. I've realized that I've already won by
1252
00:58:33.679 --> 00:58:34.389
writing this book.
1253
00:58:34.469 --> 00:58:34.630
Why?
1254
00:58:34.650 --> 00:58:37.769
Because I wrote the book that was in my heart.
1255
00:58:37.809 --> 00:58:39.170
I did. I loved it. The last two and a
1256
00:58:39.170 --> 00:58:42.690
half years of writing this has helped me so much.
1257
00:58:42.750 --> 00:58:44.530
And I've done, you know, have you read the Rick
1258
00:58:44.590 --> 00:58:45.469
Rubin book, The Creative Act?
1259
00:58:45.489 --> 00:58:46.219
Yeah, it's brilliant.
1260
00:58:46.949 --> 00:58:50.230
And Rick's amazing. I had just a beautiful conversation with
1261
00:58:50.250 --> 00:58:51.730
him on my podcast about a couple of years ago
1262
00:58:51.769 --> 00:58:55.420
about all these ideas. And Rick will say that the
1263
00:58:55.519 --> 00:58:58.900
very best art does not get made with the audience
1264
00:58:58.980 --> 00:59:02.360
in mind. And I freaking love that. And I really,
1265
00:59:02.380 --> 00:59:05.170
this book, yes, I wrote it to help people, but
1266
00:59:05.230 --> 00:59:08.550
primarily I wrote it to help myself. I wrote it
1267
00:59:08.570 --> 00:59:12.380
to help me understand the human condition, why it is
1268
00:59:12.420 --> 00:59:14.860
we go to certain behaviors, why we can't make those
1269
00:59:14.920 --> 00:59:17.869
behaviors sustainable in the long term. So actually the direct
1270
00:59:17.909 --> 00:59:20.110
answer to your question is if this only makes number
1271
00:59:20.110 --> 00:59:23.750
20 in the charts, right? I'm okay with that because
1272
00:59:23.849 --> 00:59:26.650
I've already won by writing it. I know it's a
1273
00:59:26.690 --> 00:59:29.090
great book. And I'd say that with no arrogance, right?
1274
00:59:29.610 --> 00:59:31.949
I really believe that this is a fantastic book that
1275
00:59:31.989 --> 00:59:35.360
will give people wisdom that can keep coming back to
1276
00:59:35.420 --> 00:59:38.400
month after month, year after year. But I don't need
1277
00:59:38.440 --> 00:59:40.840
people to tell me that. If people don't like it,
1278
00:59:41.500 --> 00:59:43.900
I still like myself for writing this book. And that's
1279
00:59:43.940 --> 00:59:44.780
the big difference now for me.
1280
00:59:44.780 --> 00:59:48.059
Plus, crucially, the way publishing works, you've already got the advance.
1281
00:59:48.079 --> 00:59:48.860
Yeah.
1282
00:59:50.559 --> 00:59:53.429
Let's face facts, yeah.
1283
00:59:53.610 --> 00:59:55.670
He also writes in that book, guys, and you guys
1284
00:59:55.710 --> 00:59:59.289
may really resonate with this. He talks about all these
1285
00:59:59.409 --> 01:00:01.639
artists that, you know, for people who don't know, Rick
1286
01:00:01.679 --> 01:00:05.260
Rubin has been produced to, you know, everyone from Jay-Z
1287
01:00:05.280 --> 01:00:08.260
to Neil Young to the Red Hot Chili Peppers to Adele, right?
1288
01:00:08.280 --> 01:00:10.909
So he's done everything. And he will write about the
1289
01:00:11.030 --> 01:00:12.489
dangers of having an audience.
1290
01:00:13.300 --> 01:00:13.489
Right?
1291
01:00:13.820 --> 01:00:16.679
Because if you already have an audience, the temptation then
1292
01:00:16.739 --> 01:00:20.019
is to not get creative and push the boundaries. The
1293
01:00:20.159 --> 01:00:23.800
temptation is just to appease your audience. And for the
1294
01:00:23.840 --> 01:00:25.139
last two and a half years, what I've been saying
1295
01:00:25.179 --> 01:00:27.219
to Penguin is, guys, this is a very different book.
1296
01:00:27.320 --> 01:00:29.920
I'm not going to write a book that I've already written.
1297
01:00:29.960 --> 01:00:32.460
This is different. I'm going to be pushing myself, putting
1298
01:00:32.500 --> 01:00:35.050
out new ideas to the world. And I said, you
1299
01:00:35.090 --> 01:00:36.909
guys are going to have a bias for me to
1300
01:00:37.030 --> 01:00:39.469
actually just stay back a little bit to give the
1301
01:00:39.550 --> 01:00:41.929
audience what they think they want. I'm not going to
1302
01:00:41.969 --> 01:00:45.010
do that because... You can have commercial success doing that,
1303
01:00:45.070 --> 01:00:48.130
but I think you can lose your soul along the way.
1304
01:00:48.750 --> 01:00:52.570
So I feel that I've nourished my soul in writing this. And,
1305
01:00:53.300 --> 01:00:56.440
you know, what happens now is out of my control, basically. Brilliant.
1306
01:00:56.519 --> 01:00:56.860
That's great.
1307
01:00:56.880 --> 01:00:58.840
It's such an amazing conversation. Thanks for coming on.
1308
01:00:59.119 --> 01:00:59.980
Thank you so much.
1309
01:01:00.599 --> 01:01:01.480
Do the final question.
1310
01:01:02.460 --> 01:01:03.280
Yeah. Yeah.
1311
01:01:03.559 --> 01:01:05.940
I think so. Um, we always ask at the end,
1312
01:01:06.000 --> 01:01:09.079
cause we haven't actually asked about your, we haven't actually
1313
01:01:09.139 --> 01:01:11.780
asked about your direct parenting that much, but beyond the
1314
01:01:11.800 --> 01:01:15.039
kind of, um, The kind of passing on the jobs thing.
1315
01:01:16.019 --> 01:01:17.360
So does that mean we get to do it again?
1316
01:01:17.380 --> 01:01:17.840
Part two?
1317
01:01:17.860 --> 01:01:18.559
Because I've loved it.
1318
01:01:18.719 --> 01:01:19.579
Yeah, I've loved it.
1319
01:01:19.599 --> 01:01:20.500
Let's do a part two.
1320
01:01:21.840 --> 01:01:26.159
The point, the question then is, with your partner, your wife,
1321
01:01:26.969 --> 01:01:29.170
what's the one thing she does as a parent that
1322
01:01:29.650 --> 01:01:32.030
just blows your mind and you just think, that is
1323
01:01:32.090 --> 01:01:34.590
why I am so pleased that she's the mother to
1324
01:01:34.630 --> 01:01:36.789
my children? And what is the one thing that she does,
1325
01:01:37.170 --> 01:01:40.989
maybe a minor thing that's quite annoying? Yeah. And you
1326
01:01:41.050 --> 01:01:42.530
haven't brought it up with her, but were she to
1327
01:01:42.570 --> 01:01:44.190
listen to this, this would be a way to pass
1328
01:01:44.230 --> 01:01:46.449
it on to her. Wow.
1329
01:01:46.710 --> 01:01:54.019
Okay. So firstly, my wife is just the most amazing mother. Honestly,
1330
01:01:54.500 --> 01:01:57.440
she really is. And I would say the one thing,
1331
01:01:57.460 --> 01:02:00.400
there are many things she does phenomenally well. The one
1332
01:02:00.440 --> 01:02:03.800
thing I think she does incredibly well, which is probably
1333
01:02:03.860 --> 01:02:06.380
why I now do it, because I've learned it from her,
1334
01:02:07.260 --> 01:02:11.300
from a very, very young age, when the kids were young,
1335
01:02:11.960 --> 01:02:16.590
she would always listen to them so attentively. Like even
1336
01:02:16.630 --> 01:02:19.570
as a three-year-old, what they said really, really mattered. She
1337
01:02:19.590 --> 01:02:21.949
would take it seriously and she would give them proper answers.
1338
01:02:22.739 --> 01:02:25.260
And I know that sounds like a small thing, but
1339
01:02:25.400 --> 01:02:28.980
I think I grew up, I think my parents very
1340
01:02:29.000 --> 01:02:31.840
much were from the generation where, you know, What do
1341
01:02:31.860 --> 01:02:35.219
kids know, right? Kids are piping up in the background. Again,
1342
01:02:35.239 --> 01:02:37.739
I'm not criticizing any parent from that generation. I just
1343
01:02:37.860 --> 01:02:42.699
don't think that I felt my voice as a three, four, five,
1344
01:02:42.780 --> 01:02:45.500
six year old had real, real validity for my parents
1345
01:02:45.519 --> 01:02:49.400
to take seriously, but she does. And I've learned that.
1346
01:02:49.420 --> 01:02:52.039
And I thought, wow. So we have the most incredible
1347
01:02:52.099 --> 01:02:54.679
conversations now with the children at the dinner table, at
1348
01:02:54.719 --> 01:02:56.789
the breakfast. You know, I have podcast guests coming to
1349
01:02:56.809 --> 01:02:58.929
the house every week because the studio's in my garden.
1350
01:02:59.610 --> 01:03:02.630
And I'm always chatting to the children. I'm saying, they're
1351
01:03:02.690 --> 01:03:06.860
always saying, you know, come to your garden. He was
1352
01:03:06.900 --> 01:03:10.610
going to, and then three days beforehand, we got an email.
1353
01:03:10.349 --> 01:03:12.469
Saying, Rangan, we're really, really sorry. He has to fly
1354
01:03:12.550 --> 01:03:16.230
back to LA urgently. Any chance he can come to London?
1355
01:03:16.789 --> 01:03:19.429
And if it wasn't Rick Rubin, I know he would
1356
01:03:19.469 --> 01:03:21.349
have gone.
1357
01:03:21.429 --> 01:03:24.659
But if little Rangan, who had posters of Jon Bon
1358
01:03:24.679 --> 01:03:27.360
Jovi on his wall, and Rick Rubin didn't produce Bon Jovi,
1359
01:03:29.079 --> 01:03:31.500
If you had told him that one day you're going
1360
01:03:31.519 --> 01:03:33.500
to be able to sit in a room with the
1361
01:03:33.559 --> 01:03:35.539
Rick Rubin and speak to him about whatever you want
1362
01:03:35.599 --> 01:03:37.920
and you didn't take it, I'm not sure what he
1363
01:03:38.059 --> 01:03:39.679
would have thought of his speech. So I did, I
1364
01:03:39.900 --> 01:03:41.429
had a studio in London, I got on the train.
1365
01:03:41.889 --> 01:03:43.050
Oh, he's met you offline already.
1366
01:03:44.250 --> 01:03:46.230
Yeah, so I did do that. So yeah, I would
1367
01:03:46.269 --> 01:03:48.909
say that's the biggest quality I would say that I'm
1368
01:03:48.929 --> 01:03:50.670
drawn to from my wife. And honestly, maybe this is
1369
01:03:50.690 --> 01:03:55.750
like the unconventional answer in terms of the second part
1370
01:03:55.769 --> 01:04:00.300
of that question. Yeah. I don't even, I can't honestly
1371
01:04:00.340 --> 01:04:02.079
say there's something that she does that irritates me. I
1372
01:04:02.440 --> 01:04:05.340
think she's... Turn it in, mate. Go on.
1373
01:04:05.400 --> 01:04:06.980
Hey, don't talk shit to me, yeah?
1374
01:04:08.340 --> 01:04:11.550
I think she's a wonderful mother, honestly. And I think she's,
1375
01:04:11.570 --> 01:04:14.889
she probably, that's probably the most important thing in her life.
1376
01:04:15.750 --> 01:04:17.750
I can't hear what you guys are saying. Sorry, I'm going,
1377
01:04:18.090 --> 01:04:20.070
I'm listening to that. I'm going, yeah, come on, mate, whatever.
1378
01:04:20.130 --> 01:04:22.440
As long as you don't edit out that first bit
1379
01:04:22.460 --> 01:04:24.639
right at the very start of the conversation.
1380
01:04:25.320 --> 01:04:28.619
She's a great mum, basically.
1381
01:04:28.719 --> 01:04:29.360
Oh, brilliant.
1382
01:04:29.440 --> 01:04:31.360
All right, fair enough, mate. Thank you so much for
1383
01:04:31.380 --> 01:04:32.579
doing this. We'll definitely get you back.
1384
01:04:32.619 --> 01:04:33.539
Yeah, I love that.
1385
01:04:33.579 --> 01:04:36.630
Thank you, guys. I appreciate it. And Josh, I hope
1386
01:04:36.650 --> 01:04:38.289
you're cold and your skin gets better soon.
1387
01:04:38.329 --> 01:04:38.869
Thank you.
1388
01:04:38.909 --> 01:04:39.309
That's the key.
1389
01:04:39.389 --> 01:04:42.409
Also, can you just say, Teresa Watts, thank you for
1390
01:04:42.449 --> 01:04:43.369
listening to the podcast.
1391
01:04:43.389 --> 01:04:44.809
That's my mother-in-law. She'll love that.
1392
01:04:45.690 --> 01:04:48.039
Teresa Watts thank you so much for listening to the
1393
01:04:48.059 --> 01:04:52.659
podcast and always remember never on double speed always on
1394
01:04:52.679 --> 01:04:54.329
the speed which is meant to be listened to.
1395
01:04:54.289 --> 01:04:57.050
Cheers thanks mate you've been brilliant.
1396
01:04:56.550 --> 01:04:57.469
Cheers guys thank you.
1397
01:04:58.920 --> 01:05:00.199
Rangan Chatterjee.
1398
01:05:00.260 --> 01:05:00.949
Doctor.
1399
01:05:01.170 --> 01:05:03.210
Doctor Rangan Chatterjee.
1400
01:05:03.349 --> 01:05:04.150
That was great, wasn't it?
1401
01:05:04.250 --> 01:05:04.889
Fascinating.
1402
01:05:05.070 --> 01:05:08.369
I did feel like sometimes I cut in with jokes at.
1403
01:05:08.250 --> 01:05:08.809
Quite serious moments.
1404
01:05:08.889 --> 01:05:10.360
No, but I think you've got to back yourself.
1405
01:05:10.469 --> 01:05:12.019
I think you've got to back yourself. I think he
1406
01:05:12.059 --> 01:05:14.699
liked it. And I've never heard you apologising more.
1407
01:05:14.940 --> 01:05:15.920
Well, that's because I was.
1408
01:05:16.940 --> 01:05:19.900
It's great to have really interesting staff, but also as well,
1409
01:05:19.940 --> 01:05:21.539
people come in for laughs, so I've got to slip
1410
01:05:21.559 --> 01:05:22.440
in a couple of little doozies.
1411
01:05:22.460 --> 01:05:24.139
I know, but I don't think you should apologise.
1412
01:05:24.360 --> 01:05:26.260
At the end, I was going, cut the fucking shit.
1413
01:05:26.280 --> 01:05:28.590
I was going to get near me, I think, because
1414
01:05:28.610 --> 01:05:30.789
we were both talking at once. Very good, I enjoyed that.
1415
01:05:30.989 --> 01:05:32.010
Loved it. Lovely bloke.
1416
01:05:32.170 --> 01:05:32.480
What a guy.
1417
01:05:32.489 --> 01:05:34.650
Read his book. I'm going to go listen to him
1418
01:05:34.949 --> 01:05:37.190
interview Rick Rubin. Yeah, that is a good one.
1419
01:05:37.409 --> 01:05:37.610
Yeah.
1420
01:05:38.489 --> 01:05:38.949
I'd like to get.
1421
01:05:39.559 --> 01:05:40.800
Also, when he went, everyone comes to my garden.
1422
01:05:40.820 --> 01:05:42.280
I was like, there's no fucking way Ruben came to
1423
01:05:42.300 --> 01:05:42.940
your garden, mate.
1424
01:05:43.340 --> 01:05:44.699
Oh, yeah, his diary's just changed.
1425
01:05:45.050 --> 01:05:45.730
Fuck off.
1426
01:05:45.809 --> 01:05:49.570
Fern Cotton's always getting people in her garden. Pardon? Like,
1427
01:05:49.730 --> 01:05:51.469
when she's doing her podcast, she's always.
1428
01:05:51.789 --> 01:05:52.750
Yeah, but she lives in London.
1429
01:05:53.309 --> 01:05:53.909
Yeah.
1430
01:05:53.969 --> 01:05:57.349
No, like, it's lovely where he lives up near Manchester,
1431
01:05:57.369 --> 01:06:00.269
but Ruben's... No, if you're trying to book Jamie Carragher.
1432
01:06:00.409 --> 01:06:01.710
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
1433
01:06:01.760 --> 01:06:02.010
Bye.
1434
01:06:02.070 --> 01:06:02.280
Bye.