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Hello, hello, welcome back to another episode on the Omni Channel podcast.
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This is audio only and another evening moment in bed.
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I know I could technically grab the microphone, but I feel like when the thing is happening and there's something I need to say, it's the easiest way for me to just grab my phone and record a voice memo for you.
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Today's episode I actually have recorded before, and the first time I attempted to record this episode, I was pacing back and forth in my bedroom, actually living room, and it was still in formulation.
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And I think that's quite okay because perhaps thoughts that we want to share, it has to marinate a little bit more.
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Now, in today's episode, I want to talk about what I think makes someone influential.
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And the more I have been expressing online, and the more I have been having conversations with people, the more I have recognized the micro-influence moments.
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And perhaps if you are a creator yourself, this is something or a thought leader, this is something that you have already recognized yourself when you have something that you express or written, not just like the people who are blatantly copy what you say, but there is some degree of curation that after you had a conversation, someone goes on to create based on what you guys talked about.
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And this has happened to me so many times at this point that from a conversation, from a podcast episode, I can either see people are covering the topics or the realization they have gotten from the conversation, or it actually has to set them on more of a journey that they define themselves now differently because of that.
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And again, to me, all is fine.
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We usually both walk away from the conversation learning something.
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So I think it's a natural way of two people thinking together, and whatever emerges, that it's natural that people run with it.
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But I also noticed that outside of conversations, it could be a YouTube video I posted, and then seeing that echo through my audience, that week's topic, and it doesn't matter.
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I think the more you do this, the more you recognize that that there is that microinfluence happening because we are social creatures and we influence each other all the time.
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Now, what has also been true for me is that I've been contemplating what makes someone quote unquote influential, and not in a word of the influencer and the lifestyle and all of that, but what makes someone's thoughts be influential almost ripples through people, or some people start regurgitating the same words, and it's not to bash the people who do this, it's just that they are more I guess open to influence than other people, and we are all open to influence to certain degrees, but I think there are certain people who are more permeable to influence, so to say.
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So I've noticed the ripples, and obviously, with the ripples, you can see similarities in language and expression, even down to sometimes like the way someone speaks is is actually being taken and and almost not used in a way, but it's just imitated in a way.
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And again, it's not negative, it's just something I observe.
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So as I'm having conversations with people, the way I have conversations with people, I don't just listen.
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To me, I I try to understand at the same time.
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So to me, when I understand something, it means that in a way, if I understand it, I remember it.
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I know.
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Then from knowing that understanding emerges, then I get it, and I get it forever, right?
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So it could be an industry inside that now I understand, it becomes a part of my thinking landscape.
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So that when I'm listening to someone, I actually think with them many, many times.
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And perhaps this is something I picked up from interviewing people on the podcast for the past five years, just being not just actively listening to respond and to kind of say something back, but more so to understand.
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And what has been happening very naturally is that every single conversation, I not just listen to what you say, but I also find understanding in what you say.
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And what has been the case sometimes is that you know, when someone tells me, for example, a new business idea, I just met with an entrepreneur friend in person after a long time, and we sat down in a restaurant just for lunch, and this entrepreneur tells me about what is she working on and just like the details of her her thought her thinking and her plan, and and I start to dig into that because I want to understand.
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I don't just listen because I I just listen, I I genuinely want to track the logic, I want to understand, and I'm checking for understanding logic coherence.
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And so, what happened is on this occasion is there were just times when the thinking felt fuzzy, and when I cannot track the coherence, like the through line of the logic of the thinking of someone, I usually think to myself, uh, maybe they they just need some clarity around it.
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Maybe this is not something they have tested enough times, and that's okay, that's cool.
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I it's not my job to police people's thinking or business ideas, it's just something I know to myself, and then I pull back, I don't push further, I just understand okay, perhaps this is something that they they have yet to test out, or there are just more applications or reps that they need to do, so that this becomes more crystal clear.
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So the next time when we have a conversation, they are able to express it with much more clarity.
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And that's when it clicked for me that to me, someone has a strong influence when their thinking is solid.
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So, in a way, when they have a certain idea or a realization that they got to, they actually can walk you through the path of how they got there, right?
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So, and that path is when made visible, makes perfect sense to the listener.
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If you have, for example, if you have adopted an idea from someone and you know you're around with the idea and you're just repeating it because you understand what the idea means, but you haven't really lived the understanding itself, like as the idea was created, and the wrestling and the path and the detours, and you don't know those pathways, but you can just grab the end of it because you understand it and it sounds cool.
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Sometimes it's just literally that.
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But to me, when someone is influential, they don't just take an idea because it sounds cool and because they understand it, they actually go through a path and uh embody it and and just walk through it in a way that it becomes theirs.
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It's it's almost like filter through their body, flirt flirt is a hard word, filtered through their nervous system and the experience, and it becomes something else.
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It cannot be the same thing because like we are we have different experiences and humans and we have different perspectives, so it doesn't automatically become the same thing, it becomes something of a version of yourself, and to me that that's more influential than when you can do that, when you can illuminate a pathway of how something came to be, when you can explain the process of how things came to be, and you have a very coherent way of thinking about it because you yourself have been there when it came to existence, right?
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That to me is the ultimate influential way of being, and obviously there are different levels of that because you can actually put through something in your system and cognitively understand it, and perhaps you've yet to embody it on a deeper layer because perhaps you understand it and perhaps you have a clear stance on it, and you know how you got there, but there's a different level of being actually embodied in that principle and and living your life when there is pressure, when there are circumstances that bring that up for you, and still acting in alignment of that principle.
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Now you gain a deeper level of understanding, and obviously, your influence grows the more experience you've gotten, the more convicted you've gotten because you've seen it happen over and over.
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And another example I like to give here is is how coherent thinking, just having that process of coherent thinking, like why some idea is the way it is.
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I like to think about it as a car engine.
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So a car engine has its components, and every single component is there for a reason.
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So if I was to pick up out a car engine and look at the individual pieces, they would all serve a purpose in the engine, and they would be there for a reason.
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And I can almost use the same example of someone thinking and someone's pattern of thinking, the architect of their mind and their thinking, and grab the idea or grab whatever that is that you're saying and almost dissect it piece by piece.
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And you can think about deconstructing an idea or or almost like it's like a briefcase that someone packed perfectly, and I'm opening the briefcase, and I can admire how nicely it's packed, but I'm like, okay, let me just remove the socks, let me see what's in there.
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Oh, let me see this in there, and every single item I'm removing is actually makes perfect sense, and there's that that every single piece is deserved to be there for a reason.
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And once we can reveal that pathway, there's such clarity in the pathway for for the person on the out the receiving end, for the receiving end of the person, that to me is the most influential way to be.
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Because why?
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When we reveal our thinking, and actually because we live through it, we thought through it, we formed an opinion based on our own clarity about it and coherence about it.
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What happens is that people can track the entire process.
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So every single step of the way, when we reveal the thinking, they go, That makes sense, that makes sense, and that makes sense, that makes sense.
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Yes, I get it.
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And even if you don't agree with the conclusion, or even if you don't agree with the idea itself at the end, you could be going like I can see how you think that, but anyway, for me it's this, right?
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A very good example could be a friend who is investing into a podcast studio that is very high tag.
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The first episode he wants it to be just perfection in in the way of it's the production and and the lights and everything.
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And he can explain to me that in great details, like what makes him pick something that is high level and how he likes to do things.
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And I can agree with him because I I as he walks me through his reasoning, yep, that makes sense, that makes sense, that makes sense, right?
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Even to how did I pick this studio specifically?
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I can he walks me through, I trace it back, and every single step of the way it makes sense.
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At the end, I can still say, Well, I could see how that's working for you.
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For me, I just like to grab my phone and I just like to speak, and and sometimes to me that's perfect.
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Like I I I knew I could invest in a higher tech thing, and in fact, I've been investing slowly as I was going.
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But to me, the most important part was what is something I can start doing right now, and I can sustainably do it over time, and I can improve as I go.
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And to me, I was like, I just need to get it out there, that's all I needed to do.
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While I understand your thinking because you reveal to me and it makes perfect sense and good for you.
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I can also tell you how my thinking came to be, and you can also say, Well, that's good for you, right?
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Because I know I have a through line in the logic of my own thinking and the coherence of my own thinking.
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So when that process is revealed to us, and when we go through that, even if the the thing is a no, we're like ah to me is this, but I get what you're saying, then the resistance is much less.
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And if in any or chances someone reveals their way of thinking and how they got to where they are, you actually might say, actually, that's so true for me.
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And okay, tell me, like, you really understand me.
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And so, when it comes to selling, for example, many times I just reveal the pathway of how I came to create the program.
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What was the behind the scenes?
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What did I learn from the experience?
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And by the time I just reveal the thinking, people go, Yeah, sign me up.
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I get it, makes sense.
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I actually tried that too, and that didn't work.
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Oh, I'm glad you have done that.
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And you knew, okay, so you must know something, and you must have been further on your journey.
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In fact, the people who came to my program, they were coming because they like, oh, I I see you are still on the journey, but it seems like you're further than I am.
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So let me learn from you.
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And so when we reveal that, there isn't so much about how can I give you the features and benefits and almost you know problem solution, and like we're trying so hard to persuade and influence someone's decision making, it just becomes like, hey, this has been my process.
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If that makes sense to you too, then look, would love to invite you to this program.
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And so that also is qualifying, disqualifying people in the process.
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So to me, the more I can dissect your thinking and the more it becomes coherent, the more you can tell me, okay, how that came to be for you, the more influential you become.
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And obviously, with more embodiment and experience, and everything gets refined over time, but it's just not this thing that you heard and it sounded cool.
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It's this thing that you heard, and I'm like, oh, let me see how that shows up in my life.
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And I actually, this is something I don't I didn't never consciously did that, just happens all the time.
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I heard I hear an idea.
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Life throws me situations in which the idea gets activated.
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And so I don't even know what was the original intent of the person who created it.
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I just know that this now gets gets illuminated in a situation that that makes sense for me, and I'm gonna put my own twist and interpretation on it naturally.
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So that even though the idea was perhaps something else that the author of the idea intended, now because it got illuminated into a real life experience of mine, it becomes mine and it becomes slightly different, or maybe a different way of thinking and seeing it.
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And so I think that's when we are influential.
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And and I had a podcast yesterday I recorded with uh someone talking about AI, and he told me that the way he was prepping for this podcast is that it's actually very funny, just basically chat AI, just prepping and you know, responding to questions, so like when he gets those questions, he knows what to say, how to respond, he reduces his anxiety, and that's perfect.
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And I remember telling him, like, I don't prep so much to answer questions.
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What I do is I spend quality thinking time to understand my own stance on something and formulate that out loud enough so that when I understand why I believe that thing, it becomes interchangeable.
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So you can ask me a question on something and perhaps I haven't taken the time to think about that or form a belief about that that's coherent because I took the time to think through it.
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In that scenario, I probably wouldn't be giving you the best, most coherent answer.
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But if this is a question and a lot of questions I already have stance on, a lot of things that are in circulation, I already kind of know why I think the way I think because I took time to think about it and then coherently understand that whole thing.
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Then when you ask me that question, I'm not making the answer up from zero.
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I just basically index that part of my brain that is already done with the pre-made idea because I know why I think that way.
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It's it's my idea, it's my embodied version of an idea, can it can be the same thing.
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So I just index the understanding and I shape it and calibrate it to the speaker, right?
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So, for example, if you ask me about what I think about um service providership, then I can I and obviously the conversation, like we are both service providers and we are in a conversation.
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I know what I think about service providership, I know my experience, I know how I work, I know what I liked, what I liked in the industry, what I didn't like in the industry, what are different mindsets of service providers, and I can bring that inside and I can tailor that so that the listeners or the person or the person in front of me gets to understand it in like I can shape that understanding in a way that they go, yep, that's relevant for them, but the understanding at its core is it's it's it's its core.
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I I know why I believe that thing.
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So you can come and pressure to that idea, I would still know why I think that way.
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It doesn't mean that it's not open to different perspectives because you could tell me something and I'd be like, Oh, actually, I could see how that's also valid.
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So I'm always open to perspectives and upgrading my way of thinking.
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Like, I think it's also mattering that you can upgrade your way of thinking if you have new evidence or new understanding.
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So it's not like you're rigid in in the way you're thinking, but essentially you know why you think that, and so that from that point on, what has been my case in terms of how do I prep for these occasions and interviews is just simply that I know why I think that way.
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That's it.
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I thought about it.
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There were many, many, many occasions in which there were situations that happened and perhaps sometimes misunderstandings in business that made me reflect.
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And because my process is experiencing something and then going to reflecting about it, and then after that, making a decision and acting, and then again something happening and reflecting, forming an opinion, and like almost like extracting the insight that's that's relevant for me, and then that's my process.
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So reflection is actually an active thing that I do.
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It could be an improv class that I went to that day, and I have 600 observations of how I reacted, how someone reacted, what happened, and I spend a good three, four hours sometimes just reflecting out loud and processing out loud, and I store those experiences and formulate an opinion on them.
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And I just get that opinion, index it, and and and use it in context of conversations.
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And I have countless examples of that, it's it's happening all the time.
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That's why I like to keep my life in a way that I keep experiencing things so I can enrich in my insights and reflect on different things, and also I have friends that we can reflect out loud.
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So when you have intellectual friends that you can just have out loud reflections and and you can send each other podcast episodes of reflection and you can go back and forth, that's the best thing.
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So we think together, things emerge.
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I love that so much.
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So if you can do that, that's actually so so helpful as well.
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It can accelerate your reflection and the way you process things even more.
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So that's just a caveat on doing that.
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And another thing I wanted to say here is, and this is something I observed as well, and it's not to bash anyone, this is just an observation, is that when it comes to selling and like selling by writing or selling by speaking, that obviously is a lot of emphasis on the benefits and what you're gonna get, and that's cool that you do that, and it's it's amazing.
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It's you're not focused on yourself, but you're focused on the other person and the outcome.
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It's amazing.
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Where now it gets fuzzy for me is when I hear someone telling a story to sell something or invite someone to something, and the story has gaps and quantum leaps.
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Almost like the first time I experienced it is I was listening to Mel Robbins on stage, and she basically they had they had a huge bed they brought to the set, and it was like illustrating how she was in bed and basically depressed, and she made up the five-second rule and she launched out of bed, and that changed her life.
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And somehow we jumped from her showing her cringy Instagram profile when literally she had no followers, only friends who liked her stuff, into hyper jumping into who she is today.
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And so, even though that sounds like a cool story, there's a massive quantum bleep.
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So, what we don't talk about is the amount of work and effort that this required, but to me, that's not a way of thinking I can track.
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So, we jumped from this one thing to now we are famous, and the in-between is like completely dark, and somehow I should believe now that you have been possessing the solution because reality is much more messy.
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And I'm not saying that you should disclose every single detour, even though if you can disclose and illuminate the path that led you to an understanding, an idea, or even something that you're selling, the more you can do this, the better.
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But also, I just feel like I don't buy it.
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And I had a conversation with one of my thinking friends about how there are different levels of awareness for people in terms of what they buy into, right?
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Like some people buy into get rich quick or get freedom and financial freedom, right?
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There are people who buy into that without questioning how it's done, like the idea itself is enticing enough, and there are more discerned buyers the higher we go.
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And I think because I've over time became more discerning, it I just I I need I require more evidence, and I think there is a such thing we call buyer sophistication.
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So it means that there are more and more people who are getting almost desensitized by messages that are full of gaps and and and quantum leaps, and like whoo, here we are, now we are here, right?
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And they go, Okay, I don't know why, and then sometimes they don't know why.
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Many times they're just like, I don't know why, I just don't feel this.
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Like, there's something off I just feel resistance, I don't I don't think it's for me, I I can't explain.
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There's a lot of that too when it comes to buying or investing into something now.
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There's just something off, you can't quite tell why, but I think many times it's because that that process of understanding or how something came to be is just not revealed.
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There's just quantum leaps.
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If there are quantum leaps, sometimes there is full-on deception, which obviously is not the best practice.
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But I think a sophisticated buyer is asking the questions of okay, what's what's the profit on that?
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Like, what's the net on that?
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Like, okay, you said you made this much.
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Okay, how much the cost is for you every month?
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Like, how much does it take for you to run a company like that?
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How much are you investing into ads?
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Like, obviously, more sophisticated buyers are not just gonna look at the number and be like, Whoa, that's such a big number.
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Tell like they gotta be like, Okay, so do tell me how that came to be.
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How much are you gonna take home on that?
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And now we are talking, now I'm I'm Interest in right, so I think those are the questions that now, especially as people are getting more and more sophisticated, and if your buyers are sophisticated, then you might be also implementing more of that into the way you are showing up.
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But to me, that coherence in thinking is ultimately that, and that you know why you say it, you've been through it, is what ultimately is creating, I think, a very, very strong influence actually.
00:22:25.039 --> 00:22:27.759
And so there is one more thing I want to add here before I let you go.
00:22:27.839 --> 00:22:33.359
It's a very interesting thing that happened on improv class, and I'll tell you this story.
00:22:33.519 --> 00:22:37.119
We'll we'll end up the conversation and wrap up the conversation with this one.
00:22:37.279 --> 00:22:44.640
But basically, what happened in improv is we had an exercise in which we had to say a random childhood fact about us.
00:22:44.799 --> 00:22:58.720
We have to put in a piece of paper the teacher was reading out loud, and three of us need to volunteer, and obviously, the story belongs to only one of us, and two of us had to kind of make it up and lie.
00:22:59.200 --> 00:23:07.200
And the whole idea was behind it is that the audience at the end needs to decide what story belonged to who and who was lying.
00:23:07.359 --> 00:23:09.200
This was such a fascinating exercise.
00:23:09.359 --> 00:23:11.519
First of all, I cannot lie.
00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:14.079
Like to me, lying is makes me anxious.
00:23:14.160 --> 00:23:15.519
Like, I can't, I can't.
00:23:15.599 --> 00:23:16.720
Lying is so hard for me.
00:23:16.880 --> 00:23:19.839
You know, the the card game is when you have to lie, just I can't.
00:23:19.920 --> 00:23:26.640
My poker face is non-existence, like I smile, like there's no way I can just hide that unless I'm thinking to something terrible.
00:23:26.799 --> 00:23:32.000
Then I'm like, okay, maybe I can shut it down so you can't see my emotions.
00:23:32.240 --> 00:23:45.200
But what happened is that interestingly, the participants, when it came to stories, in order to avoid flat-out lying, they actually had raised their hands for stories that they already kind of have versions of that.
00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:58.400
So instead of raising their heads for hands for things that are blatant lies and they would have to make up something and come and lie about it, most of them came for a variation of the same story.
00:23:58.480 --> 00:24:13.359
So, for example, it was a story of someone who went to watch a play when they were young, and the two other person like we also went to watch a play when we were young, we just didn't go to this place, we went to another place.
00:24:13.519 --> 00:24:23.759
But so they could both speak with conviction in a way because they had a similar experience, and perhaps omitting those details, but it was really hard to tell them apart, right?
00:24:23.839 --> 00:24:32.480
Because oh wait, it sounded like you also had it, and most people were like, Yeah, I actually had something like that, quite similar, so of course you raise your hands for that.
00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:38.160
But another interesting thing happened as well, and I'll tell you this, and how we could detect that someone was lying.
00:24:38.400 --> 00:24:48.559
My story that I've written for the piece of paper was is that I could never win at chess, and it was true, I could never win at chess no matter how hard I tried.
00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:58.400
And you know, two other people came to kind of raise their hands, and one guy said, Oh, I went to a chess club and I've been practicing chess, and somehow I could never win.
00:24:58.559 --> 00:25:00.720
And no one was buying that.
00:25:00.880 --> 00:25:08.400
If you went to a chess club and you're like a nerd, there's no way you haven't won once and you're here talking about it on stage.
00:25:08.640 --> 00:25:10.880
And my explanation was quite simple.
00:25:10.960 --> 00:25:11.920
I'll tell you what I said.
00:25:12.079 --> 00:25:22.240
I said, So when I was younger, my grandpa tried to teach me how to play chess, and I don't know why, but I could just never beat him.
00:25:22.400 --> 00:25:27.599
And I was getting frustrated, and I lost within the first couple of steps, and it was just done.
00:25:27.759 --> 00:25:36.400
And after that, just remember being in primary school in the library, and just wanting to play chess with kids, and they always beat me, I could never win.
00:25:36.559 --> 00:25:40.480
Maybe get into a tie at some point and just give up, and I'm like, man, I can't win.
00:25:40.640 --> 00:25:44.559
And then after that, just playing with my partner and just I could just never win.
00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:52.640
So honestly, I kind of thought to myself that perhaps it's just I can't think that many moves ahead, and perhaps chess is just not for me.
00:25:52.799 --> 00:25:53.839
That was my story.
00:25:54.000 --> 00:25:55.759
Now, look at the story itself.
00:25:56.000 --> 00:26:00.400
There are a lot of the parts of the story that go, like, I don't know why I couldn't win.
00:26:00.559 --> 00:26:03.119
I don't know what happened, but it's just that's what happened.
00:26:03.279 --> 00:26:09.759
And you could argue that well, I cannot externalize the entire step, because in this scenario, I don't know why.
00:26:09.920 --> 00:26:14.720
I just know I could never win, and I think perhaps because I can't think that many steps ahead of time.
00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:22.319
And you could argue that it was more believable, and by the way, everyone immediately was like, Yep, you are the one with the story.
00:26:22.480 --> 00:26:26.400
Because not because it was more believable, like more believable.
00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:33.440
I literally said I don't know why, I don't know why I couldn't win, but because it was more believable in how human reality is messy.
00:26:33.599 --> 00:26:34.799
Like sometimes you just don't know.
00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:39.440
Sometimes just like, well, I thought about that and uh I couldn't figure it out.
00:26:39.599 --> 00:26:45.279
And that is much more believable than to say, well, this is exactly how it is, and now I realize this.
00:26:45.440 --> 00:26:48.559
Like, do you see how there are nuances in our thinking?
00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:55.039
It's not just that you know why you think what you think, but sometimes you know why you don't know, and you can say, Well, I actually I don't know.
00:26:55.200 --> 00:26:56.880
This one, I have no idea why.
00:26:57.119 --> 00:27:01.359
Perhaps you can just say, like, maybe it's this, but maybe that, I don't know.
00:27:01.519 --> 00:27:07.759
But that was enough for people to be like, Yep, your story is the one story, and it goes back to saying the truth.
00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:12.319
When we are forming an opinion about something, what usually help is just say the truth.
00:27:12.480 --> 00:27:30.240
Like, I don't know this, like that's how I felt, like that's how I that's what I thought, and perhaps it was irrational, perhaps it was not the best thing, but this that's that's the best I could come up with in terms of explanation, and that is more believable than you're saying, Well, I went to chess club and somehow I can never win.
00:27:30.319 --> 00:27:33.039
I'm like, okay, you're you're capping, this is not true.
00:27:33.119 --> 00:27:33.839
Like, what do you mean?
00:27:33.920 --> 00:27:34.720
It makes no sense.
00:27:34.960 --> 00:27:38.640
So I'm gonna leave you to this one and let's just recap what we talked about.
00:27:38.799 --> 00:27:52.319
In order for someone to be a more influential thinker, they need to have a way of coming to an understanding and and have a way to walk the listener through how that understanding came to be.
00:27:52.559 --> 00:28:06.240
The more you can give that to the people who are listening, the more influential you become because they you can reveal that coherence because people feel coherence, and when they can go, well, that makes sense, that makes sense, that makes sense.
00:28:06.559 --> 00:28:11.359
It's naturally inviting that credibility factor in the way you express yourself.
00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:18.480
Now, if you are quantum weeping, suddenly the listener goes, Okay, but there's just something missing.
00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:28.480
And when there are things missing, people try to make it up with more promises and more bonuses and just making it enticing.
00:28:28.640 --> 00:28:36.720
But when really it's just revealing and illuminating the process is what helps people understand how that came to be.
00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:48.559
And when it comes to ideas that you hear from someone and you think it's kinda cool, I want to urge you and to make sure you understand how that idea came to be.
00:28:48.799 --> 00:28:53.680
Not just because you cognitively understand, I want you to really understand.
00:28:53.839 --> 00:28:55.680
I'm gonna leave you with this example.
00:28:55.839 --> 00:29:00.400
There are people who said this when emotions are high, intellect is low.
00:29:00.559 --> 00:29:07.440
And it sounds really cool, it's like a throwaway line, it's you can put it on your fridge and in a magnet, you feel really good about it.
00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:10.160
But when I heard that, it made me think why?
00:29:10.240 --> 00:29:10.480
Why?
00:29:10.640 --> 00:29:11.200
What happens?
00:29:11.359 --> 00:29:13.920
What happens in your brain that that is true?
00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:27.599
Is then I go into research and I understand that our prefrontal cortex, which is responsible for critical thinking, goes offline in the periods in which the emotional part, which is the amygdala, gets activated.
00:29:27.759 --> 00:29:32.400
Once that's getting activated, your access to critical thinking is non-existent.
00:29:32.559 --> 00:29:44.799
And what also happens is that because you are your fight-flight response is on, the blood flows to your legs and arms, so you can run fast from the bear or the lion, whatever is chasing you.
00:29:44.960 --> 00:29:46.880
In this scenario, you're out.
00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:56.319
And another thing that is very interesting scientifically is that your BPM, your heart rate number per minute goes up.
00:29:56.480 --> 00:30:13.359
And there are studies in which they were examining high performers, athletes, and what are the BPM rates in which they are high performing, and what are the BPM rates where their brain starts to turn into mush and they are it's non-optimal anymore.
00:30:13.519 --> 00:30:22.720
And so, because researchers detected that, and obviously, when we are completely calm and we try to speak from there, it's just sometimes can be very boring.
00:30:22.960 --> 00:30:35.440
So having the energy up and and running, sometimes excitement and nervousness can bump that up for you, so you can be in more high-performer state versus when you're super calm and chill by yourself.
00:30:35.599 --> 00:30:56.559
But if you go over a certain threshold, your brain starts to lose its coherence, and then first it goes, coherence goes out of the window, so logic goes out of the window, coherent thinking in terms of formulating sentences, is good it goes out of the window, and also memory at the end is out of the window, so you become a vegetable brain.
00:30:56.799 --> 00:30:57.920
That's what happens.
00:30:58.160 --> 00:31:17.839
So once you understand that, and then now if I feel like I'm in a situation where I'm in some sort of nervousness or there's something happening that makes me a little bit more agitated, I can recognize how my verbal expressions are not so finesse, you know, not not so finesse, not so finesse.
00:31:17.920 --> 00:31:19.200
I don't even notice that's a word.
00:31:19.359 --> 00:31:31.599
The finesse in my expressions is gone, and I go a little bit more to the point than giving you all the the intricate things, the intricate ways of expressing, right?
00:31:31.759 --> 00:31:35.599
But that is already an emotionally charged moment, right?
00:31:35.759 --> 00:31:52.240
And recognizing that and regulating yourself or breathing into before you speak because you know that your brain is gonna be vegetable, it's ultimately gonna help your prefrontal cortex to come back online so you can express from your deepest wisdom, and sometimes that takes time.
00:31:52.400 --> 00:32:23.519
So instead of grabbing that line, that emotions are high, intellect are low, and just throwing it to people, I not only understand deeply on a scientific level of how that line came to be, I also have experiences, embodied experiences in which I recognize that I was kind of feeling triggered, and what that created in me that awareness of just keep breathing, taking some space, coming back to baseline before I engage, because I know that at some point it will just stop making sense.
00:32:23.680 --> 00:32:27.119
So that's what I mean by having an opinion about something.
00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:37.519
It's not I'm not just regurgitating scientific facts because if you could argue that I I'm I am doing that, but I have an understanding because I asked myself, okay, why was that created in the first place?
00:32:37.680 --> 00:32:42.319
And perhaps the person who came up with it they would have a different explanation that's true for them.
00:32:42.480 --> 00:32:56.480
But I made it mine, I made it mine and I found the evidence, I researched it, I I felt it in my body, and now it's it's something if if this is something that I wanted to say more, I could tell people what that experience has been for me.
00:32:56.640 --> 00:33:02.079
So it's not just a cute line that I heard on the internet, it's now become my line.
00:33:02.240 --> 00:33:07.599
If I wanted to, I didn't adopt it and didn't I don't use it, but I have an understanding of how that came to be.
00:33:07.759 --> 00:33:08.559
Does that make sense?
00:33:08.720 --> 00:33:14.240
And so every single time when we embody something, when we hear something, like huh, that's interesting, I wonder.
00:33:14.400 --> 00:33:15.680
Ha, that's interesting, I wonder.
00:33:15.839 --> 00:33:17.279
How that's interesting, I wonder.
00:33:17.440 --> 00:33:18.559
That's my entire life.
00:33:18.640 --> 00:33:21.440
There is no things that come to me that I find interesting.
00:33:21.519 --> 00:33:31.839
I don't start wondering, and I don't start deconstructing the thing into its pieces and finding ways in that applies in my life, not just then, but maybe later down the line.
00:33:31.920 --> 00:33:36.240
So it deepens that insight even more and it upgrades it and it makes it mine.
00:33:36.400 --> 00:33:46.319
So if you want to be more influential, I urge you to ask the question how it came to be, I wonder, and just wonder more, have more curiosity around these things.
00:33:46.480 --> 00:33:48.319
Alright, you guys, I'm gonna let you go.
00:33:48.480 --> 00:33:53.359
Thank you so much for listening to this one, and I'll see you guys very soon.
00:33:53.759 --> 00:33:54.079
Bye.
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:06.080
Hello, hello, welcome back to another episode on the Omni Channel podcast.
00:00:06.559 --> 00:00:10.080
This is audio only and another evening moment in bed.
00:00:10.240 --> 00:00:23.359
I know I could technically grab the microphone, but I feel like when the thing is happening and there's something I need to say, it's the easiest way for me to just grab my phone and record a voice memo for you.
00:00:23.600 --> 00:00:37.359
Today's episode I actually have recorded before, and the first time I attempted to record this episode, I was pacing back and forth in my bedroom, actually living room, and it was still in formulation.
00:00:37.600 --> 00:00:43.759
And I think that's quite okay because perhaps thoughts that we want to share, it has to marinate a little bit more.
00:00:44.079 --> 00:00:49.520
Now, in today's episode, I want to talk about what I think makes someone influential.
00:00:49.679 --> 00:00:58.240
And the more I have been expressing online, and the more I have been having conversations with people, the more I have recognized the micro-influence moments.
00:00:58.560 --> 00:01:26.319
And perhaps if you are a creator yourself, this is something or a thought leader, this is something that you have already recognized yourself when you have something that you express or written, not just like the people who are blatantly copy what you say, but there is some degree of curation that after you had a conversation, someone goes on to create based on what you guys talked about.
00:01:26.560 --> 00:01:48.159
And this has happened to me so many times at this point that from a conversation, from a podcast episode, I can either see people are covering the topics or the realization they have gotten from the conversation, or it actually has to set them on more of a journey that they define themselves now differently because of that.
00:01:48.400 --> 00:01:51.040
And again, to me, all is fine.
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We usually both walk away from the conversation learning something.
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So I think it's a natural way of two people thinking together, and whatever emerges, that it's natural that people run with it.
00:02:02.159 --> 00:02:11.759
But I also noticed that outside of conversations, it could be a YouTube video I posted, and then seeing that echo through my audience, that week's topic, and it doesn't matter.
00:02:11.840 --> 00:02:21.280
I think the more you do this, the more you recognize that that there is that microinfluence happening because we are social creatures and we influence each other all the time.
00:02:21.439 --> 00:02:55.360
Now, what has also been true for me is that I've been contemplating what makes someone quote unquote influential, and not in a word of the influencer and the lifestyle and all of that, but what makes someone's thoughts be influential almost ripples through people, or some people start regurgitating the same words, and it's not to bash the people who do this, it's just that they are more I guess open to influence than other people, and we are all open to influence to certain degrees, but I think there are certain people who are more permeable to influence, so to say.
00:02:55.520 --> 00:03:11.360
So I've noticed the ripples, and obviously, with the ripples, you can see similarities in language and expression, even down to sometimes like the way someone speaks is is actually being taken and and almost not used in a way, but it's just imitated in a way.
00:03:11.520 --> 00:03:15.199
And again, it's not negative, it's just something I observe.
00:03:15.439 --> 00:03:21.039
So as I'm having conversations with people, the way I have conversations with people, I don't just listen.
00:03:21.199 --> 00:03:24.159
To me, I I try to understand at the same time.
00:03:24.319 --> 00:03:30.240
So to me, when I understand something, it means that in a way, if I understand it, I remember it.
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I know.
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Then from knowing that understanding emerges, then I get it, and I get it forever, right?
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So it could be an industry inside that now I understand, it becomes a part of my thinking landscape.
00:03:43.520 --> 00:03:48.400
So that when I'm listening to someone, I actually think with them many, many times.
00:03:48.560 --> 00:04:00.400
And perhaps this is something I picked up from interviewing people on the podcast for the past five years, just being not just actively listening to respond and to kind of say something back, but more so to understand.
00:04:00.719 --> 00:04:10.319
And what has been happening very naturally is that every single conversation, I not just listen to what you say, but I also find understanding in what you say.
00:04:10.400 --> 00:04:35.360
And what has been the case sometimes is that you know, when someone tells me, for example, a new business idea, I just met with an entrepreneur friend in person after a long time, and we sat down in a restaurant just for lunch, and this entrepreneur tells me about what is she working on and just like the details of her her thought her thinking and her plan, and and I start to dig into that because I want to understand.
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I don't just listen because I I just listen, I I genuinely want to track the logic, I want to understand, and I'm checking for understanding logic coherence.
00:04:44.480 --> 00:05:00.480
And so, what happened is on this occasion is there were just times when the thinking felt fuzzy, and when I cannot track the coherence, like the through line of the logic of the thinking of someone, I usually think to myself, uh, maybe they they just need some clarity around it.
00:05:00.639 --> 00:05:05.600
Maybe this is not something they have tested enough times, and that's okay, that's cool.
00:05:05.759 --> 00:05:24.399
I it's not my job to police people's thinking or business ideas, it's just something I know to myself, and then I pull back, I don't push further, I just understand okay, perhaps this is something that they they have yet to test out, or there are just more applications or reps that they need to do, so that this becomes more crystal clear.
00:05:24.480 --> 00:05:29.279
So the next time when we have a conversation, they are able to express it with much more clarity.
00:05:29.519 --> 00:05:36.000
And that's when it clicked for me that to me, someone has a strong influence when their thinking is solid.
00:05:36.399 --> 00:05:46.720
So, in a way, when they have a certain idea or a realization that they got to, they actually can walk you through the path of how they got there, right?
00:05:46.959 --> 00:05:53.199
So, and that path is when made visible, makes perfect sense to the listener.
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If you have, for example, if you have adopted an idea from someone and you know you're around with the idea and you're just repeating it because you understand what the idea means, but you haven't really lived the understanding itself, like as the idea was created, and the wrestling and the path and the detours, and you don't know those pathways, but you can just grab the end of it because you understand it and it sounds cool.
00:06:19.360 --> 00:06:20.959
Sometimes it's just literally that.
00:06:21.199 --> 00:06:37.199
But to me, when someone is influential, they don't just take an idea because it sounds cool and because they understand it, they actually go through a path and uh embody it and and just walk through it in a way that it becomes theirs.
00:06:37.759 --> 00:06:46.480
It's it's almost like filter through their body, flirt flirt is a hard word, filtered through their nervous system and the experience, and it becomes something else.
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It cannot be the same thing because like we are we have different experiences and humans and we have different perspectives, so it doesn't automatically become the same thing, it becomes something of a version of yourself, and to me that that's more influential than when you can do that, when you can illuminate a pathway of how something came to be, when you can explain the process of how things came to be, and you have a very coherent way of thinking about it because you yourself have been there when it came to existence, right?
00:07:15.680 --> 00:07:49.199
That to me is the ultimate influential way of being, and obviously there are different levels of that because you can actually put through something in your system and cognitively understand it, and perhaps you've yet to embody it on a deeper layer because perhaps you understand it and perhaps you have a clear stance on it, and you know how you got there, but there's a different level of being actually embodied in that principle and and living your life when there is pressure, when there are circumstances that bring that up for you, and still acting in alignment of that principle.
00:07:49.279 --> 00:08:00.079
Now you gain a deeper level of understanding, and obviously, your influence grows the more experience you've gotten, the more convicted you've gotten because you've seen it happen over and over.
00:08:00.240 --> 00:08:10.000
And another example I like to give here is is how coherent thinking, just having that process of coherent thinking, like why some idea is the way it is.
00:08:10.160 --> 00:08:12.720
I like to think about it as a car engine.
00:08:12.879 --> 00:08:17.360
So a car engine has its components, and every single component is there for a reason.
00:08:17.519 --> 00:08:27.199
So if I was to pick up out a car engine and look at the individual pieces, they would all serve a purpose in the engine, and they would be there for a reason.
00:08:27.360 --> 00:08:41.759
And I can almost use the same example of someone thinking and someone's pattern of thinking, the architect of their mind and their thinking, and grab the idea or grab whatever that is that you're saying and almost dissect it piece by piece.
00:08:41.840 --> 00:08:54.720
And you can think about deconstructing an idea or or almost like it's like a briefcase that someone packed perfectly, and I'm opening the briefcase, and I can admire how nicely it's packed, but I'm like, okay, let me just remove the socks, let me see what's in there.
00:08:54.799 --> 00:09:02.960
Oh, let me see this in there, and every single item I'm removing is actually makes perfect sense, and there's that that every single piece is deserved to be there for a reason.
00:09:03.120 --> 00:09:15.200
And once we can reveal that pathway, there's such clarity in the pathway for for the person on the out the receiving end, for the receiving end of the person, that to me is the most influential way to be.
00:09:15.279 --> 00:09:15.919
Because why?
00:09:16.080 --> 00:09:25.440
When we reveal our thinking, and actually because we live through it, we thought through it, we formed an opinion based on our own clarity about it and coherence about it.
00:09:25.600 --> 00:09:28.720
What happens is that people can track the entire process.
00:09:28.879 --> 00:09:36.399
So every single step of the way, when we reveal the thinking, they go, That makes sense, that makes sense, and that makes sense, that makes sense.
00:09:36.559 --> 00:09:37.679
Yes, I get it.
00:09:37.840 --> 00:09:48.399
And even if you don't agree with the conclusion, or even if you don't agree with the idea itself at the end, you could be going like I can see how you think that, but anyway, for me it's this, right?
00:09:48.559 --> 00:09:54.879
A very good example could be a friend who is investing into a podcast studio that is very high tag.
00:09:55.120 --> 00:10:01.840
The first episode he wants it to be just perfection in in the way of it's the production and and the lights and everything.
00:10:02.080 --> 00:10:10.000
And he can explain to me that in great details, like what makes him pick something that is high level and how he likes to do things.
00:10:10.159 --> 00:10:16.879
And I can agree with him because I I as he walks me through his reasoning, yep, that makes sense, that makes sense, that makes sense, right?
00:10:17.039 --> 00:10:19.600
Even to how did I pick this studio specifically?
00:10:19.759 --> 00:10:23.840
I can he walks me through, I trace it back, and every single step of the way it makes sense.
00:10:24.000 --> 00:10:27.200
At the end, I can still say, Well, I could see how that's working for you.
00:10:27.360 --> 00:10:32.799
For me, I just like to grab my phone and I just like to speak, and and sometimes to me that's perfect.
00:10:32.879 --> 00:10:39.440
Like I I I knew I could invest in a higher tech thing, and in fact, I've been investing slowly as I was going.
00:10:39.600 --> 00:10:49.039
But to me, the most important part was what is something I can start doing right now, and I can sustainably do it over time, and I can improve as I go.
00:10:49.120 --> 00:10:52.080
And to me, I was like, I just need to get it out there, that's all I needed to do.
00:10:52.240 --> 00:10:56.639
While I understand your thinking because you reveal to me and it makes perfect sense and good for you.
00:10:56.799 --> 00:11:02.000
I can also tell you how my thinking came to be, and you can also say, Well, that's good for you, right?
00:11:02.159 --> 00:11:06.960
Because I know I have a through line in the logic of my own thinking and the coherence of my own thinking.
00:11:07.200 --> 00:11:18.639
So when that process is revealed to us, and when we go through that, even if the the thing is a no, we're like ah to me is this, but I get what you're saying, then the resistance is much less.
00:11:18.879 --> 00:11:27.519
And if in any or chances someone reveals their way of thinking and how they got to where they are, you actually might say, actually, that's so true for me.
00:11:27.679 --> 00:11:30.720
And okay, tell me, like, you really understand me.
00:11:30.799 --> 00:11:38.080
And so, when it comes to selling, for example, many times I just reveal the pathway of how I came to create the program.
00:11:38.320 --> 00:11:39.759
What was the behind the scenes?
00:11:39.840 --> 00:11:41.440
What did I learn from the experience?
00:11:41.519 --> 00:11:45.919
And by the time I just reveal the thinking, people go, Yeah, sign me up.
00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:47.200
I get it, makes sense.
00:11:47.360 --> 00:11:49.279
I actually tried that too, and that didn't work.
00:11:49.360 --> 00:11:50.480
Oh, I'm glad you have done that.
00:11:50.559 --> 00:11:55.200
And you knew, okay, so you must know something, and you must have been further on your journey.
00:11:55.279 --> 00:12:03.600
In fact, the people who came to my program, they were coming because they like, oh, I I see you are still on the journey, but it seems like you're further than I am.
00:12:03.679 --> 00:12:05.440
So let me learn from you.
00:12:05.600 --> 00:12:20.080
And so when we reveal that, there isn't so much about how can I give you the features and benefits and almost you know problem solution, and like we're trying so hard to persuade and influence someone's decision making, it just becomes like, hey, this has been my process.
00:12:20.240 --> 00:12:24.639
If that makes sense to you too, then look, would love to invite you to this program.
00:12:24.879 --> 00:12:29.039
And so that also is qualifying, disqualifying people in the process.
00:12:29.200 --> 00:12:38.639
So to me, the more I can dissect your thinking and the more it becomes coherent, the more you can tell me, okay, how that came to be for you, the more influential you become.
00:12:38.720 --> 00:12:47.120
And obviously, with more embodiment and experience, and everything gets refined over time, but it's just not this thing that you heard and it sounded cool.
00:12:47.279 --> 00:12:51.200
It's this thing that you heard, and I'm like, oh, let me see how that shows up in my life.
00:12:51.360 --> 00:12:56.240
And I actually, this is something I don't I didn't never consciously did that, just happens all the time.
00:12:56.399 --> 00:12:57.679
I heard I hear an idea.
00:12:57.919 --> 00:13:02.399
Life throws me situations in which the idea gets activated.
00:13:02.559 --> 00:13:07.039
And so I don't even know what was the original intent of the person who created it.
00:13:07.360 --> 00:13:16.480
I just know that this now gets gets illuminated in a situation that that makes sense for me, and I'm gonna put my own twist and interpretation on it naturally.
00:13:16.879 --> 00:13:32.159
So that even though the idea was perhaps something else that the author of the idea intended, now because it got illuminated into a real life experience of mine, it becomes mine and it becomes slightly different, or maybe a different way of thinking and seeing it.
00:13:32.320 --> 00:13:35.600
And so I think that's when we are influential.
00:13:35.679 --> 00:13:57.440
And and I had a podcast yesterday I recorded with uh someone talking about AI, and he told me that the way he was prepping for this podcast is that it's actually very funny, just basically chat AI, just prepping and you know, responding to questions, so like when he gets those questions, he knows what to say, how to respond, he reduces his anxiety, and that's perfect.
00:13:57.679 --> 00:14:03.279
And I remember telling him, like, I don't prep so much to answer questions.
00:14:03.840 --> 00:14:19.120
What I do is I spend quality thinking time to understand my own stance on something and formulate that out loud enough so that when I understand why I believe that thing, it becomes interchangeable.
00:14:19.279 --> 00:14:30.480
So you can ask me a question on something and perhaps I haven't taken the time to think about that or form a belief about that that's coherent because I took the time to think through it.
00:14:30.559 --> 00:14:35.600
In that scenario, I probably wouldn't be giving you the best, most coherent answer.
00:14:35.840 --> 00:14:51.039
But if this is a question and a lot of questions I already have stance on, a lot of things that are in circulation, I already kind of know why I think the way I think because I took time to think about it and then coherently understand that whole thing.
00:14:51.200 --> 00:14:56.559
Then when you ask me that question, I'm not making the answer up from zero.
00:14:56.799 --> 00:15:05.120
I just basically index that part of my brain that is already done with the pre-made idea because I know why I think that way.
00:15:05.279 --> 00:15:10.559
It's it's my idea, it's my embodied version of an idea, can it can be the same thing.
00:15:10.720 --> 00:15:17.440
So I just index the understanding and I shape it and calibrate it to the speaker, right?
00:15:17.600 --> 00:15:28.000
So, for example, if you ask me about what I think about um service providership, then I can I and obviously the conversation, like we are both service providers and we are in a conversation.
00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:56.559
I know what I think about service providership, I know my experience, I know how I work, I know what I liked, what I liked in the industry, what I didn't like in the industry, what are different mindsets of service providers, and I can bring that inside and I can tailor that so that the listeners or the person or the person in front of me gets to understand it in like I can shape that understanding in a way that they go, yep, that's relevant for them, but the understanding at its core is it's it's it's its core.
00:15:56.720 --> 00:15:58.879
I I know why I believe that thing.
00:15:59.120 --> 00:16:03.600
So you can come and pressure to that idea, I would still know why I think that way.
00:16:03.759 --> 00:16:12.639
It doesn't mean that it's not open to different perspectives because you could tell me something and I'd be like, Oh, actually, I could see how that's also valid.
00:16:12.799 --> 00:16:17.679
So I'm always open to perspectives and upgrading my way of thinking.
00:16:17.759 --> 00:16:24.480
Like, I think it's also mattering that you can upgrade your way of thinking if you have new evidence or new understanding.
00:16:24.639 --> 00:16:38.639
So it's not like you're rigid in in the way you're thinking, but essentially you know why you think that, and so that from that point on, what has been my case in terms of how do I prep for these occasions and interviews is just simply that I know why I think that way.
00:16:38.799 --> 00:16:39.200
That's it.
00:16:39.360 --> 00:16:40.399
I thought about it.
00:16:40.639 --> 00:16:50.480
There were many, many, many occasions in which there were situations that happened and perhaps sometimes misunderstandings in business that made me reflect.
00:16:50.639 --> 00:17:08.079
And because my process is experiencing something and then going to reflecting about it, and then after that, making a decision and acting, and then again something happening and reflecting, forming an opinion, and like almost like extracting the insight that's that's relevant for me, and then that's my process.
00:17:08.240 --> 00:17:11.680
So reflection is actually an active thing that I do.
00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:32.400
It could be an improv class that I went to that day, and I have 600 observations of how I reacted, how someone reacted, what happened, and I spend a good three, four hours sometimes just reflecting out loud and processing out loud, and I store those experiences and formulate an opinion on them.
00:17:32.480 --> 00:17:38.640
And I just get that opinion, index it, and and and use it in context of conversations.
00:17:38.720 --> 00:17:42.720
And I have countless examples of that, it's it's happening all the time.
00:17:42.880 --> 00:17:54.799
That's why I like to keep my life in a way that I keep experiencing things so I can enrich in my insights and reflect on different things, and also I have friends that we can reflect out loud.
00:17:55.200 --> 00:18:05.759
So when you have intellectual friends that you can just have out loud reflections and and you can send each other podcast episodes of reflection and you can go back and forth, that's the best thing.
00:18:05.839 --> 00:18:08.000
So we think together, things emerge.
00:18:08.160 --> 00:18:09.279
I love that so much.
00:18:09.359 --> 00:18:12.720
So if you can do that, that's actually so so helpful as well.
00:18:12.799 --> 00:18:16.960
It can accelerate your reflection and the way you process things even more.
00:18:17.200 --> 00:18:19.519
So that's just a caveat on doing that.
00:18:19.680 --> 00:18:38.319
And another thing I wanted to say here is, and this is something I observed as well, and it's not to bash anyone, this is just an observation, is that when it comes to selling and like selling by writing or selling by speaking, that obviously is a lot of emphasis on the benefits and what you're gonna get, and that's cool that you do that, and it's it's amazing.
00:18:38.400 --> 00:18:42.319
It's you're not focused on yourself, but you're focused on the other person and the outcome.
00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:43.039
It's amazing.
00:18:43.359 --> 00:18:53.759
Where now it gets fuzzy for me is when I hear someone telling a story to sell something or invite someone to something, and the story has gaps and quantum leaps.
00:18:53.920 --> 00:19:13.599
Almost like the first time I experienced it is I was listening to Mel Robbins on stage, and she basically they had they had a huge bed they brought to the set, and it was like illustrating how she was in bed and basically depressed, and she made up the five-second rule and she launched out of bed, and that changed her life.
00:19:13.759 --> 00:19:25.759
And somehow we jumped from her showing her cringy Instagram profile when literally she had no followers, only friends who liked her stuff, into hyper jumping into who she is today.
00:19:25.920 --> 00:19:30.480
And so, even though that sounds like a cool story, there's a massive quantum bleep.
00:19:30.640 --> 00:19:39.200
So, what we don't talk about is the amount of work and effort that this required, but to me, that's not a way of thinking I can track.
00:19:39.359 --> 00:19:51.839
So, we jumped from this one thing to now we are famous, and the in-between is like completely dark, and somehow I should believe now that you have been possessing the solution because reality is much more messy.
00:19:52.000 --> 00:20:05.440
And I'm not saying that you should disclose every single detour, even though if you can disclose and illuminate the path that led you to an understanding, an idea, or even something that you're selling, the more you can do this, the better.
00:20:05.599 --> 00:20:09.119
But also, I just feel like I don't buy it.
00:20:09.279 --> 00:20:18.400
And I had a conversation with one of my thinking friends about how there are different levels of awareness for people in terms of what they buy into, right?
00:20:18.480 --> 00:20:24.160
Like some people buy into get rich quick or get freedom and financial freedom, right?
00:20:24.319 --> 00:20:33.599
There are people who buy into that without questioning how it's done, like the idea itself is enticing enough, and there are more discerned buyers the higher we go.
00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:43.839
And I think because I've over time became more discerning, it I just I I need I require more evidence, and I think there is a such thing we call buyer sophistication.
00:20:44.000 --> 00:20:56.400
So it means that there are more and more people who are getting almost desensitized by messages that are full of gaps and and and quantum leaps, and like whoo, here we are, now we are here, right?
00:20:56.559 --> 00:21:00.640
And they go, Okay, I don't know why, and then sometimes they don't know why.
00:21:00.799 --> 00:21:04.079
Many times they're just like, I don't know why, I just don't feel this.
00:21:04.160 --> 00:21:09.920
Like, there's something off I just feel resistance, I don't I don't think it's for me, I I can't explain.
00:21:10.160 --> 00:21:14.240
There's a lot of that too when it comes to buying or investing into something now.
00:21:14.319 --> 00:21:23.519
There's just something off, you can't quite tell why, but I think many times it's because that that process of understanding or how something came to be is just not revealed.
00:21:23.599 --> 00:21:24.799
There's just quantum leaps.
00:21:24.880 --> 00:21:31.119
If there are quantum leaps, sometimes there is full-on deception, which obviously is not the best practice.
00:21:31.279 --> 00:21:36.720
But I think a sophisticated buyer is asking the questions of okay, what's what's the profit on that?
00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:37.920
Like, what's the net on that?
00:21:38.079 --> 00:21:39.519
Like, okay, you said you made this much.
00:21:39.680 --> 00:21:41.920
Okay, how much the cost is for you every month?
00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:44.400
Like, how much does it take for you to run a company like that?
00:21:44.559 --> 00:21:46.079
How much are you investing into ads?
00:21:46.160 --> 00:21:52.640
Like, obviously, more sophisticated buyers are not just gonna look at the number and be like, Whoa, that's such a big number.
00:21:52.799 --> 00:21:56.240
Tell like they gotta be like, Okay, so do tell me how that came to be.
00:21:56.400 --> 00:21:58.160
How much are you gonna take home on that?
00:21:58.240 --> 00:22:13.119
And now we are talking, now I'm I'm Interest in right, so I think those are the questions that now, especially as people are getting more and more sophisticated, and if your buyers are sophisticated, then you might be also implementing more of that into the way you are showing up.
00:22:13.279 --> 00:22:24.880
But to me, that coherence in thinking is ultimately that, and that you know why you say it, you've been through it, is what ultimately is creating, I think, a very, very strong influence actually.
00:22:25.039 --> 00:22:27.759
And so there is one more thing I want to add here before I let you go.
00:22:27.839 --> 00:22:33.359
It's a very interesting thing that happened on improv class, and I'll tell you this story.
00:22:33.519 --> 00:22:37.119
We'll we'll end up the conversation and wrap up the conversation with this one.
00:22:37.279 --> 00:22:44.640
But basically, what happened in improv is we had an exercise in which we had to say a random childhood fact about us.
00:22:44.799 --> 00:22:58.720
We have to put in a piece of paper the teacher was reading out loud, and three of us need to volunteer, and obviously, the story belongs to only one of us, and two of us had to kind of make it up and lie.
00:22:59.200 --> 00:23:07.200
And the whole idea was behind it is that the audience at the end needs to decide what story belonged to who and who was lying.
00:23:07.359 --> 00:23:09.200
This was such a fascinating exercise.
00:23:09.359 --> 00:23:11.519
First of all, I cannot lie.
00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:14.079
Like to me, lying is makes me anxious.
00:23:14.160 --> 00:23:15.519
Like, I can't, I can't.
00:23:15.599 --> 00:23:16.720
Lying is so hard for me.
00:23:16.880 --> 00:23:19.839
You know, the the card game is when you have to lie, just I can't.
00:23:19.920 --> 00:23:26.640
My poker face is non-existence, like I smile, like there's no way I can just hide that unless I'm thinking to something terrible.
00:23:26.799 --> 00:23:32.000
Then I'm like, okay, maybe I can shut it down so you can't see my emotions.
00:23:32.240 --> 00:23:45.200
But what happened is that interestingly, the participants, when it came to stories, in order to avoid flat-out lying, they actually had raised their hands for stories that they already kind of have versions of that.
00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:58.400
So instead of raising their heads for hands for things that are blatant lies and they would have to make up something and come and lie about it, most of them came for a variation of the same story.
00:23:58.480 --> 00:24:13.359
So, for example, it was a story of someone who went to watch a play when they were young, and the two other person like we also went to watch a play when we were young, we just didn't go to this place, we went to another place.
00:24:13.519 --> 00:24:23.759
But so they could both speak with conviction in a way because they had a similar experience, and perhaps omitting those details, but it was really hard to tell them apart, right?
00:24:23.839 --> 00:24:32.480
Because oh wait, it sounded like you also had it, and most people were like, Yeah, I actually had something like that, quite similar, so of course you raise your hands for that.
00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:38.160
But another interesting thing happened as well, and I'll tell you this, and how we could detect that someone was lying.
00:24:38.400 --> 00:24:48.559
My story that I've written for the piece of paper was is that I could never win at chess, and it was true, I could never win at chess no matter how hard I tried.
00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:58.400
And you know, two other people came to kind of raise their hands, and one guy said, Oh, I went to a chess club and I've been practicing chess, and somehow I could never win.
00:24:58.559 --> 00:25:00.720
And no one was buying that.
00:25:00.880 --> 00:25:08.400
If you went to a chess club and you're like a nerd, there's no way you haven't won once and you're here talking about it on stage.
00:25:08.640 --> 00:25:10.880
And my explanation was quite simple.
00:25:10.960 --> 00:25:11.920
I'll tell you what I said.
00:25:12.079 --> 00:25:22.240
I said, So when I was younger, my grandpa tried to teach me how to play chess, and I don't know why, but I could just never beat him.
00:25:22.400 --> 00:25:27.599
And I was getting frustrated, and I lost within the first couple of steps, and it was just done.
00:25:27.759 --> 00:25:36.400
And after that, just remember being in primary school in the library, and just wanting to play chess with kids, and they always beat me, I could never win.
00:25:36.559 --> 00:25:40.480
Maybe get into a tie at some point and just give up, and I'm like, man, I can't win.
00:25:40.640 --> 00:25:44.559
And then after that, just playing with my partner and just I could just never win.
00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:52.640
So honestly, I kind of thought to myself that perhaps it's just I can't think that many moves ahead, and perhaps chess is just not for me.
00:25:52.799 --> 00:25:53.839
That was my story.
00:25:54.000 --> 00:25:55.759
Now, look at the story itself.
00:25:56.000 --> 00:26:00.400
There are a lot of the parts of the story that go, like, I don't know why I couldn't win.
00:26:00.559 --> 00:26:03.119
I don't know what happened, but it's just that's what happened.
00:26:03.279 --> 00:26:09.759
And you could argue that well, I cannot externalize the entire step, because in this scenario, I don't know why.
00:26:09.920 --> 00:26:14.720
I just know I could never win, and I think perhaps because I can't think that many steps ahead of time.
00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:22.319
And you could argue that it was more believable, and by the way, everyone immediately was like, Yep, you are the one with the story.
00:26:22.480 --> 00:26:26.400
Because not because it was more believable, like more believable.
00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:33.440
I literally said I don't know why, I don't know why I couldn't win, but because it was more believable in how human reality is messy.
00:26:33.599 --> 00:26:34.799
Like sometimes you just don't know.
00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:39.440
Sometimes just like, well, I thought about that and uh I couldn't figure it out.
00:26:39.599 --> 00:26:45.279
And that is much more believable than to say, well, this is exactly how it is, and now I realize this.
00:26:45.440 --> 00:26:48.559
Like, do you see how there are nuances in our thinking?
00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:55.039
It's not just that you know why you think what you think, but sometimes you know why you don't know, and you can say, Well, I actually I don't know.
00:26:55.200 --> 00:26:56.880
This one, I have no idea why.
00:26:57.119 --> 00:27:01.359
Perhaps you can just say, like, maybe it's this, but maybe that, I don't know.
00:27:01.519 --> 00:27:07.759
But that was enough for people to be like, Yep, your story is the one story, and it goes back to saying the truth.
00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:12.319
When we are forming an opinion about something, what usually help is just say the truth.
00:27:12.480 --> 00:27:30.240
Like, I don't know this, like that's how I felt, like that's how I that's what I thought, and perhaps it was irrational, perhaps it was not the best thing, but this that's that's the best I could come up with in terms of explanation, and that is more believable than you're saying, Well, I went to chess club and somehow I can never win.
00:27:30.319 --> 00:27:33.039
I'm like, okay, you're you're capping, this is not true.
00:27:33.119 --> 00:27:33.839
Like, what do you mean?
00:27:33.920 --> 00:27:34.720
It makes no sense.
00:27:34.960 --> 00:27:38.640
So I'm gonna leave you to this one and let's just recap what we talked about.
00:27:38.799 --> 00:27:52.319
In order for someone to be a more influential thinker, they need to have a way of coming to an understanding and and have a way to walk the listener through how that understanding came to be.
00:27:52.559 --> 00:28:06.240
The more you can give that to the people who are listening, the more influential you become because they you can reveal that coherence because people feel coherence, and when they can go, well, that makes sense, that makes sense, that makes sense.
00:28:06.559 --> 00:28:11.359
It's naturally inviting that credibility factor in the way you express yourself.
00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:18.480
Now, if you are quantum weeping, suddenly the listener goes, Okay, but there's just something missing.
00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:28.480
And when there are things missing, people try to make it up with more promises and more bonuses and just making it enticing.
00:28:28.640 --> 00:28:36.720
But when really it's just revealing and illuminating the process is what helps people understand how that came to be.
00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:48.559
And when it comes to ideas that you hear from someone and you think it's kinda cool, I want to urge you and to make sure you understand how that idea came to be.
00:28:48.799 --> 00:28:53.680
Not just because you cognitively understand, I want you to really understand.
00:28:53.839 --> 00:28:55.680
I'm gonna leave you with this example.
00:28:55.839 --> 00:29:00.400
There are people who said this when emotions are high, intellect is low.
00:29:00.559 --> 00:29:07.440
And it sounds really cool, it's like a throwaway line, it's you can put it on your fridge and in a magnet, you feel really good about it.
00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:10.160
But when I heard that, it made me think why?
00:29:10.240 --> 00:29:10.480
Why?
00:29:10.640 --> 00:29:11.200
What happens?
00:29:11.359 --> 00:29:13.920
What happens in your brain that that is true?
00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:27.599
Is then I go into research and I understand that our prefrontal cortex, which is responsible for critical thinking, goes offline in the periods in which the emotional part, which is the amygdala, gets activated.
00:29:27.759 --> 00:29:32.400
Once that's getting activated, your access to critical thinking is non-existent.
00:29:32.559 --> 00:29:44.799
And what also happens is that because you are your fight-flight response is on, the blood flows to your legs and arms, so you can run fast from the bear or the lion, whatever is chasing you.
00:29:44.960 --> 00:29:46.880
In this scenario, you're out.
00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:56.319
And another thing that is very interesting scientifically is that your BPM, your heart rate number per minute goes up.
00:29:56.480 --> 00:30:13.359
And there are studies in which they were examining high performers, athletes, and what are the BPM rates in which they are high performing, and what are the BPM rates where their brain starts to turn into mush and they are it's non-optimal anymore.
00:30:13.519 --> 00:30:22.720
And so, because researchers detected that, and obviously, when we are completely calm and we try to speak from there, it's just sometimes can be very boring.
00:30:22.960 --> 00:30:35.440
So having the energy up and and running, sometimes excitement and nervousness can bump that up for you, so you can be in more high-performer state versus when you're super calm and chill by yourself.
00:30:35.599 --> 00:30:56.559
But if you go over a certain threshold, your brain starts to lose its coherence, and then first it goes, coherence goes out of the window, so logic goes out of the window, coherent thinking in terms of formulating sentences, is good it goes out of the window, and also memory at the end is out of the window, so you become a vegetable brain.
00:30:56.799 --> 00:30:57.920
That's what happens.
00:30:58.160 --> 00:31:17.839
So once you understand that, and then now if I feel like I'm in a situation where I'm in some sort of nervousness or there's something happening that makes me a little bit more agitated, I can recognize how my verbal expressions are not so finesse, you know, not not so finesse, not so finesse.
00:31:17.920 --> 00:31:19.200
I don't even notice that's a word.
00:31:19.359 --> 00:31:31.599
The finesse in my expressions is gone, and I go a little bit more to the point than giving you all the the intricate things, the intricate ways of expressing, right?
00:31:31.759 --> 00:31:35.599
But that is already an emotionally charged moment, right?
00:31:35.759 --> 00:31:52.240
And recognizing that and regulating yourself or breathing into before you speak because you know that your brain is gonna be vegetable, it's ultimately gonna help your prefrontal cortex to come back online so you can express from your deepest wisdom, and sometimes that takes time.
00:31:52.400 --> 00:32:23.519
So instead of grabbing that line, that emotions are high, intellect are low, and just throwing it to people, I not only understand deeply on a scientific level of how that line came to be, I also have experiences, embodied experiences in which I recognize that I was kind of feeling triggered, and what that created in me that awareness of just keep breathing, taking some space, coming back to baseline before I engage, because I know that at some point it will just stop making sense.
00:32:23.680 --> 00:32:27.119
So that's what I mean by having an opinion about something.
00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:37.519
It's not I'm not just regurgitating scientific facts because if you could argue that I I'm I am doing that, but I have an understanding because I asked myself, okay, why was that created in the first place?
00:32:37.680 --> 00:32:42.319
And perhaps the person who came up with it they would have a different explanation that's true for them.
00:32:42.480 --> 00:32:56.480
But I made it mine, I made it mine and I found the evidence, I researched it, I I felt it in my body, and now it's it's something if if this is something that I wanted to say more, I could tell people what that experience has been for me.
00:32:56.640 --> 00:33:02.079
So it's not just a cute line that I heard on the internet, it's now become my line.
00:33:02.240 --> 00:33:07.599
If I wanted to, I didn't adopt it and didn't I don't use it, but I have an understanding of how that came to be.
00:33:07.759 --> 00:33:08.559
Does that make sense?
00:33:08.720 --> 00:33:14.240
And so every single time when we embody something, when we hear something, like huh, that's interesting, I wonder.
00:33:14.400 --> 00:33:15.680
Ha, that's interesting, I wonder.
00:33:15.839 --> 00:33:17.279
How that's interesting, I wonder.
00:33:17.440 --> 00:33:18.559
That's my entire life.
00:33:18.640 --> 00:33:21.440
There is no things that come to me that I find interesting.
00:33:21.519 --> 00:33:31.839
I don't start wondering, and I don't start deconstructing the thing into its pieces and finding ways in that applies in my life, not just then, but maybe later down the line.
00:33:31.920 --> 00:33:36.240
So it deepens that insight even more and it upgrades it and it makes it mine.
00:33:36.400 --> 00:33:46.319
So if you want to be more influential, I urge you to ask the question how it came to be, I wonder, and just wonder more, have more curiosity around these things.
00:33:46.480 --> 00:33:48.319
Alright, you guys, I'm gonna let you go.
00:33:48.480 --> 00:33:53.359
Thank you so much for listening to this one, and I'll see you guys very soon.
00:33:53.759 --> 00:33:54.079
Bye.
