Midnight Viewing - The Fantastic Four

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Its oil.
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I'm back midnight viewers to midnight viewing. My god, here
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it is. It's a superhero event. It's the Fantastic Four. No,
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not that one. We're talking about the very first iteration,
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the first cinematic, live action iteration of the Fantastic Four.
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It's our first unreleased film here on midnight viewing, making
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it difficult to find, or at least it was for
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many years when we were all trying here to talk
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with me about. This is my co host here at
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midnight viewing. This is HBHB. How you doing.
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What's going on? Man, I'm doing great. It's Clobren time.
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Follow on. Let's get into this. I'm very excited. As
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always I say that every week, but I'm really excited.
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This was one that I wanted to do for a
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long time.
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Let's talk Fantastic Four first and foremost, off the top,
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who's your favorite member of the four?
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Probably Ben Grimm. Probably The thing.
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Now is that for the Hybraic parallels, I.
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Knew you were gonna come up with the fact that
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he's a member of the Tribe's it's probably part of it.
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But he's such he is the best hearted one of
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the whole bunch. He's truly the monster with the heart
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of gold. He's the gentle giant, and he will go
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to any length to protect his family, to do what's right.
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He's just he looks fucking cool. I love Ben Grim.
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Who's your favorite if we're.
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Talking the Misbegotten Mess that was those two films from
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the early two thousands. From those movies, my favorite is
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Johnny Storm because it's Chris Evans I love naturally.
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Yeah, I mean that is the right answer, by the way.
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But realistically, overall, with the Fantastic War through the ages,
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it's become clear to me that Sue Storm is not
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much of a character, or at least was never really
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presented cinematically that way, and neither was Johnny Storm. Johnny
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Storm is really obnoxious to me as a character, and
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worse than both of them is Read Richards, who I
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find to be a straight up villain the Marvel universe.
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So I'm gonna go with obviously the thing as well.
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He is much cooler, having a rock guy who's funny
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and who's sweet and who falls in love and wants
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to be rid of this gift quote unquote. He's the
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only one who really gets fucked by the Transformation.
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Yeah, can I put it in an honorable mention though, Herbie,
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if we're talking, the thing is my favorite of the
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entire like Fantastic Four, kind of continue him. But if
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I'm really being honest or at least an honorable mention,
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my favorite depiction of a member of Fantastic Four, I
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think you know where maybe you know where I'm going
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with this it is it's got to be Bill Murray
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as the Human Torch in the nineteen seventy five Fantastic
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Four radio drama.
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Anyone here has seen a flaming teenager.
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I knew you were going to remember it. It's it
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all serious. I mean, it's bizarre number one that Bill Murray,
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our Bill Murray. The Bill Murray is doing is voicing
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this sort of braddy superhero. But I will say, like
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anyone who's listened to those that radio show, it's actually
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probably the most slavishly adherent to the original comic. So
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there is that. It's got that going for it, but
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it is very It's a distinctly odd experience to hear
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one of the greatest voices in comedy playing the brash
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Johnny Storm. So I had to mention that at least
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we can move on now, but I wanted to mention that.
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We're only moving on, but we're actually moving backward. What's
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your history with Fantastic for Were you a reader of
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the comic?
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I was. I can't say that it was my favorite,
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but I certainly collected it and read it during my
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prime comic book collecting phase, which is probably pre high
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school around that time, so I was a pretty big
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reader of it. It can't I also can't say that
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I was a devoted reader of the original sixties run
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because some of those I found a little bit. They're
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very dated. Let's say now. I recognize the importance and
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I love the fact that they're this iconic superhero team.
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But I read it quite a bit, and I was
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a big fan of the what ifs that featured the
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Fantastic Four.
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Yeah, I myself never read Fantastic Four. I could never
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get into them. I didn't. I understood the family dynamic
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of it, and I knew they were Marvel's familial heart
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as it were. But I only became interested in Fantastic
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Four when it involved their greatest villain, Galactus, more specifically
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Galactus's herald noorin Rad, the Silver Surfer, who is one
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of my top ten Marvel characters. I love how existential
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and just what a horrific situation that character finds himself in.
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I never really dug too much into the comics, although
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I very, very happily watched all of the cartoons from
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the sixties and seventies and whatever we were getting in
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the eighties, any iteration of the Fantastic Four animated I
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was down for.
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I also, if we're talking about the comic or extensions
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of the comic, I do want to make one recommendation
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to you and the audience at large. It's a book
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that came out in two thousand and three called Unstable Molecules.
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Are you familiar with it? Father Malone? No?
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Hippit me to it.
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It's written by a guy named James Stern, and it
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posits that the Fantastic Four were actually real normal people
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that inspired the Marvel bullpen of the late fifties to
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create the Fantastic Four comic. In the book, it's funny
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that you talk about how Read Richards is your least
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favorite member, because in this book he is the worst.
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He's this stuffy, self absorbed Columbia professor who is dating Sue,
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but pays her no mind and is very self absorbed.
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Like I said, I mean, Richard's in every iteration of
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the Fantastic Four, but this.
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Is like a real world version of read Richards no powers.
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These are just real people that, like I said, inspired this.
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Johnny is a bitter aloof teenager who never got over
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the death of his parents, and he is inspired to
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run away eventually spoiler alert by a Beatnick Ben is
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a friendly, go lucky boxing trainer, but he has issues
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with rage and sexual addiction. In this, God Stop It
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and It's great, and Sue is torn between trying to
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raise her younger brother and failing at it, and also
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living under the strictures of that time period and the
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things that it forced young women to adhere to. It's sad,
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it's funny, it's uncomfortable, it's exceedingly creative, and it won
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the Eisner Award for Best Limited Series two thousand and four.
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It's You're not gonna get any there's no superpowers, there's
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no super villains, there's none of that. It's just a
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super creative look at what if this was the inspiration
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for the Fantastic Four.
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It's great, sounds like a drag man.
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It's I'm maybe under selling the the humor and the
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sort of the the coolness of the concept. It's really
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I'm not gonna deny that it's sad and poignant, but
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it's great. It's what a create. It has a little
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bit of that Watchman thing where at the end there's
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a bibliography that goes through what happened to them, interviews
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with the real people. It's very cool. If you like
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the Watchman, you'll like this.
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Father Malone, well, I do like the Watchman. Who doesn't
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like Watchmen? Of course? And what about after Watchmen? Do
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you like after Watchmen?
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I is that an aftermash joke that you're making because
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it was a before Watchman? Was there an after Watchman too?
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Oh? No, I'm thinking of before Watchman. That's how little
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mind I paid to it.
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Before Watchman was just okay, I can't speak to you.
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What do you know what? It's not just okay? Let
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me tell you something. Maybe the comedy Edward Blake friends
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with the Kennedys. What fuck are you talking about? That's
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not what happened.
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He's the guy in the Grassy Knoll for fuck's sake.
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Yeah, man, Look the grassy noll thing. I don't think
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is next necessarily in the comic, but was portrayed in
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the film like it's a I think it's hinted at
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maybe in the comic. But yeah, of course he was.
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He probably did that for fun. I don't think he
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was even under orders anyway.
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I don't remember much about before Watchman, but let's see.
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You know what around this time period when America is
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we were also hopeful and then I hope died thanks
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to the comedian. Right around that time, Marvel's The First
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Family was born. They wouldn't get any sort of actual
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live action adaptation for many years, but they almost sooner
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than the one we eventually got in the early twenty
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first century, Right around nineteen ninety one ninety two, there
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became an opportunity where a film comingy look, everyone at
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some point or another option to Marvel property and then
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found out that it was unfilmable for them, or making
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a superhero movie is not as easy as they think.
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And up until now, the only actual feature film released
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under the Marvel imprint was Howard the Duck by nineteen
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ninety three.
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What about the Captain America movie that.
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Was never released? Was it the Albert is the Albertqune
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movie with Matt Salinger and fucking oh my god, Scott
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Pollen as the Italian Red Skull. I know what's it
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going on, Captain. Hey, I don't know.
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I did see a poster for it in the theater.
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That doesn't mean that it was released, But because I
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saw the Fantastic Four poster too.
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I don't believe it was released, sir, because I saw
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the same poster, and you know me, I was stoked
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for a Captain America movie. Sure did not happen, and
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then O man man when it did not. When I
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finally saw it, which was came out on video pretty
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pretty quickly, as soon as the straight to video became
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a thing. What never came to video was the promised
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Fantastic Four movie, the one that showed up on Film
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Threat magazine, which was a national publication. It was a
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periodical of note.
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It's a very polite way of categorizing it.
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Although I will say I was an avid reader of
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Film Threat. I don't know if you were.
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If I was, I love Film Threat.
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They certainly covered a lot of what was actual independent,
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underground cinema at the time. These were hard to find.
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Features in most cases Fantastic four.
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I was.
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I gave pause when I saw this on the cover.
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I was like, what are they doing?
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Man?
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Also around nineteen ninety three, then this ended up being
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made at Corman Studios. I lived three blocks from Corman Studios.
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Had no idea what was going on behind those doors,
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and else I would have busted my way in and
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worked on this movie. HB. How did we get here?
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In terms?
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Constantine Films has the rights to Fantastic Four? Right, Sorry,
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their copyright is going to run out. It's as tale
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as old as time.
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Yeah, so they needed to see It's a little murky.
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I thought you had to at least have a movie
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in production before that copyright ran out in order to
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have it renew itself. That's a little bit murky. And
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we'll get into the ins and outs of how it
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pertains to finas the Fantastic Four. But he it's my
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understanding that the guy was a barn what's his last name?
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Barrent Constantine man, sorry, Baron Constantine. He went to Lloyd
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Kaufman at Trauma to try and get a quickie film made,
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and he turned him down because he figured it was
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too big of a budget. For trauma to handle. He
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then went to Roger Corman, and Roger Korman approved. I
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believe it was the biggest budget up to that point
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for any Corman film, which was a million dollars to
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fast track this movie and get it into production, and
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everything happened very quickly. But there was there was no
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indication at least to the creatives dealing with this, the actors,
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the director, the editors, any of these people that this
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was anything but a genuine theatrical release. Everybody was stoked,
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like we were that, Wow, this is a fantastic four
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movie's actually going to be made, and we want to
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make this the best thing that we can make it.
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Yeah. Plenty of stories of people walking around the halls
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of Korman studios with that script in their hand, going
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who's making this? We are? And yeah, So Corman agrees
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to provide a million and a half to against constantin Films,
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one million dollars. So Constant is actually putting up the
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million dollars. Korman is putting up a million and a
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half in production costs, which means he's using his studios
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and his equipment and his staff and everything, and who
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knows what he's paying them whatever. So basically, this movie
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is being made for one million dollars, even though we're
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told it's double that budget. I'm getting I'm guessing yeah.
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But everybody, the actors are all excited. These are some
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actual actors of note, Jay Underwood, who was in The
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Boy Who Could Fly and a few other things. These
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aren't just Lightning.
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The Day my kid went punk.
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That's right, I forgot he was in.
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That covered here on the cable box theater Midnight, a
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division of Midnight it was.
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By the way, it should be noted that a lot
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of what we're describing here comes out of a movie,
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a companion piece to Fantastic Four, if you will, called Doomed,
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the Untold story of Roger Corman's Fantastic Four. That it
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goes into exhaustive detail about everything that we're describing here,
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and it's highly recommended.
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For years, that's all you could see of the movie.
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The documentary had footage of the film in it, and
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the film remained unreleased, so if that you had to
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see Doomed.
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But every like the actors involved were excited because everybody,
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the director, they saw this as this could be really
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good for their career. They realized they were doing this
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under the constraints of a Roger Corman production, and that's
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that's obvious when you see the movie. But it's also
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pretty clear when you watch The Fantastic four Father Malone,
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that this was made with a lot of love for
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the source material, that no one folding this in. They're
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doing the best they can.
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Yep, they're doing the best they can. See here's the
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thing terribly. Look as a young man when I heard
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that they were doing fantastic for it and it was
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Corman and they were doing for a million dollars, I
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was like, this is going to be the greatest train
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wreck of all time. I cannot wait to see what
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a fucking nightmare this is, right, and that, of course
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film Threat at the time their coverage was we're doing
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our best here, folks, But I would not hear that. Then,
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Oh no, I don't care doing your best. Get out
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of the way. Let somebody else make the fantastic for it.
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Don't hold onto this copyright if you're willing. My thought
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then now too is if the only thing you can
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get going with the movie is this, maybe you shouldn't
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have the rights to the film anyway.
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This is true, and it also bears repeating that this
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was obviously a very different time for Marvel movies. Nowadays,
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a Marvel movie like Fantastic Four First Steps, that's a
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big budget, highly anticipated movie. This was a time when
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Marvel couldn't really they couldn't get movies made under their
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own banner. They didn't have the resources or the infrastructure
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any of that, or there wasn't much public interest. Comic
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book movies weren't really a thing.
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But you're right then we did have Captain America and
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we had The Punisher now, which is more disappointing by
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the time that they're making this film.
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I never saw The Punisher, so I can't speak to
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the Punisher. I can't speak to Captain America. And it
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was pretty damn disappointing. It wasn't as bad as that
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TV show from the seventies with Red Brown is that
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his name? The football player who played He's.
298
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Just wearing a fucking motorcycle helmet for his regular helmet.
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It's insanity, right, But Scott Pollard was pretty good as
300
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the Italian Red Skull, though.
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I have to say, yeah, that's because Scott Polland's awesome,
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But it makes no sense he could still be German
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Red Skull in Italy? What are they doing? He could
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be visiting anyway.
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But you're right. The expectations I think for the average
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moviegoer fan of the Fantastic Four were probably pretty low
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when they heard that Roger Korman was making this picture.
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But despite that, there's excitement anyway, because again, there weren't
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many comic book movies, let alone one featuring your favorite
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superhero team, so there had I don't remember at the
311
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time being super excited for it, but there had to
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be some excitement of we're getting something like this could
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be this could be pretty cool. I'm gonna be cautiously optimistic.
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Yeah, I say this a lot, but I always feel
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like sometimes science fiction fans and comic book fans, all
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the genre fans up until recently, because now obviously nerd
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culture has exploded in all directions, but we were starved
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at a certain point, like any scrap that could fall
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off the table that had a cape on it that
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we were pretty stoked about it. It always reminds me
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of you look at racks and racts of romance novels.
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It's like people reading them know they're shit, but they'll
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just do for now. And that's what we were getting,
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like we were, oh, this little bit. We'd even take
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Howard the dock. That's the insent, just.
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A little like a starving person you give a crust
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of bread, they're going to leap upon that crust of
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food with like hunger is the best sauce. That's the saying, right,
329
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So anything is better than nothing in this case, Oh,
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we believed HB.
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I actually aligned to you because that documentary didn't come
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out until twenty fifteen.
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I was going to I was gonna mention that I
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didn't want you. You're on a roll, so I didn't
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want to get in your way.
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I had seen fantastic, I've seen. I saw Fantastic for
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ninety seven, the Rocher Carbin one, like the bootlegs were
338
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pretty quick, they were.
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I remember being at a few conventions, even I think
340
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the Weekend of Horror that you and I went to
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in high school. I remember seeing those like clamshell boxes
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at some exhibitors and going like, oh, this fantastic might
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have been the first time I even was really aware
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of the Fantastic four Corman movie. But little did I
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know that really was it. It was never going to
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be released either, as a bonus feature for the two
347
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thousand Movies or anything. And as far as I know,
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it's still there's no plan to ever release it, is there?
349
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Oh?
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Is it not on Blu ray?
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I don't think.
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I think it's on a steel book. Didn't I see,
353
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like Adam Scott in the Criterion closet taking it down? Oh,
354
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fantastic for Roger kum. Interestingly, this is not actually directed
355
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by Roger Korman even we called them, even than we
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call it a Roger car film.
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It's got a special limited edition cover by Mondo, like
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a special edition could be, but.
359
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No, I draft TSK cover.
360
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I can still see it that that cheap o case
361
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with the like digitally printed cover poorly, like the color
362
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is all faded and bad looking. And you just knew
363
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that somebody dubbed this off of their own VCR. And
364
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that was the other thing. This we're talking video cassettes.
365
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This wasn't like you're getting a DVD or even like
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a CD ROM. This was a video cassette.
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Boot from the pages of the world's greatest comic book.
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Adventure for heroes on a daring mission in space, but
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something went wrong, genetically transformed, they become the most powerful
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superheroes of all time, but the forces of evil about
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to destroy their cosmic power.
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Find them, and.
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To survive, they must utilize all their strength to put
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an end to their arch nemesis. Dude claubretime The Fantastic Four.
375
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Okay, here we go, Fantastic four. This was made to
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be released on May the thirty first, nineteen ninety four.
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It was never released. It is ninety minutes. It was
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written by Craig Nevius and then rewritten by guy named
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Kevin Rock, directed by oly Sassone or Sassoan Oly Sassoni
380
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who Knows. Starring Alex Hyde, White, Jay Underwood, Rebecca Stob,
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Michael Bailey, Smith, Carl Scharfalio, Ian Trigger, Kat Green, George
382
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gains for two seconds, and he's very very very good.
383
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He's got he's like fifth or sixth billing, and he's
384
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only in it for literally those two minutes.
385
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He just gets a blowjob from a prostitute and a
386
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podium and he's on his way. Also starring and starring
387
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Joseph Kulp as Victor von Doom, Doctor Doom. Okay, ninety
388
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minutes that I mentioned, it's ninety minutes, that's all right,
389
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here's the thing. I agree with yours and Film Threats
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and the Doomed documentaries appraisal that this is a very
391
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earnest film made by serious people. They are not winking
392
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at the product, which was always comic book fans greatest
393
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fear that we were getting Adam West Batman sixty six again.
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By now Batman had come out, and Batman was a
395
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serious dude because now it's Michael Keaton, which sounds funny
396
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that he was anyway. So Batman is a serious dude now.
397
00:23:00.440 --> 00:23:03.519
So we're expecting at least our filmmakers to take the
398
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product seriously, to take our characters and the world they're
399
00:23:08.000 --> 00:23:10.559
in seriously, and this one definitely does that.
400
00:23:11.119 --> 00:23:16.359
It does. It's not the greatest story. There are clearly
401
00:23:16.519 --> 00:23:20.680
concessions to things like budget and what have you, but
402
00:23:21.359 --> 00:23:25.519
it's not the train wreck that everybody feared it would be.
403
00:23:25.599 --> 00:23:29.799
I will say this. We've talked about those incredible Hulk
404
00:23:30.279 --> 00:23:32.640
TV movies that came after the fact, the one with
405
00:23:32.720 --> 00:23:36.119
Thor and the one with Daredevil and so forth. I
406
00:23:36.200 --> 00:23:38.680
will say I think this is at least on a
407
00:23:38.759 --> 00:23:43.559
par with the one with Thor, if not better than
408
00:23:43.599 --> 00:23:49.000
that one. That one. I think is. It's too much
409
00:23:49.000 --> 00:23:51.680
of a departure from who thor is, and it's just
410
00:23:51.720 --> 00:23:54.480
not made with all that much care and creativity. But
411
00:23:54.559 --> 00:23:57.640
this you can tell. Like you said, it's very earnest
412
00:23:57.680 --> 00:24:02.680
and the story, while not the greatest story, is very
413
00:24:02.720 --> 00:24:05.920
comic book like. It's fairly true to the source material.
414
00:24:06.519 --> 00:24:09.279
If this were I say this a lot about origin
415
00:24:09.400 --> 00:24:13.200
story movies for comic book characters. If this were a
416
00:24:13.400 --> 00:24:17.079
pilot for a television series, I would say this is
417
00:24:17.119 --> 00:24:19.880
a great fucking pilot. Everyone should seek it out and
418
00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:22.559
watch it. Look what they did, the fact that this
419
00:24:22.960 --> 00:24:30.240
is a theatrically minded feature that is ultimately a fucking
420
00:24:30.440 --> 00:24:33.720
dodge so they can maintain the rights to the characters.
421
00:24:35.559 --> 00:24:38.720
It's Sully's my take on the film. It doesn't the
422
00:24:39.559 --> 00:24:42.680
let me put it this way. The sort of naked
423
00:24:43.000 --> 00:24:48.920
greed on display balances out the earnestness of the cast
424
00:24:49.000 --> 00:24:51.400
and crew. So now I have to just judge the
425
00:24:51.440 --> 00:24:52.319
movie as.
426
00:24:52.200 --> 00:24:54.799
Is, of course, and I would say, I think if
427
00:24:54.839 --> 00:24:56.720
you asked the or if you talk to the actors,
428
00:24:57.200 --> 00:24:59.920
they would ask you to judge this movie on its marria.
429
00:25:00.119 --> 00:25:02.759
It's as opposed to all the baggage that it comes
430
00:25:02.759 --> 00:25:06.480
freighted with so on those on that basis alone, Father Malone,
431
00:25:06.519 --> 00:25:08.599
did you were you entertained? Did you enjoy it?
432
00:25:09.119 --> 00:25:13.000
I was entertained, definitely, and I did have a good
433
00:25:13.039 --> 00:25:15.920
time watching it. Was I scratching my head a lot.
434
00:25:16.599 --> 00:25:19.079
Was I wondering what the fuck is going on? Several times?
435
00:25:20.640 --> 00:25:21.680
Me too? Yeah?
436
00:25:22.480 --> 00:25:25.680
Did I immediately go? Wait? Is that supposed to be
437
00:25:26.319 --> 00:25:30.720
the mole Man? Yes? All of these things? H me, yes,
438
00:25:31.119 --> 00:25:32.079
what's the story here?
439
00:25:32.640 --> 00:25:35.720
So it's the Origin story. It starts with the Origin
440
00:25:35.759 --> 00:25:39.519
and other fantastic four that I think most people probably
441
00:25:39.559 --> 00:25:43.119
know at this point. There are some alterations and some
442
00:25:43.319 --> 00:25:47.519
streamlining happening in this one. Starts out Victor von Dune
443
00:25:48.079 --> 00:25:51.839
and read our classmates, just like in the comic book.
444
00:25:52.400 --> 00:25:55.160
But this is mental by the way that we're starting
445
00:25:55.160 --> 00:25:57.759
with them as young people. I get what they're doing,
446
00:25:58.000 --> 00:26:01.000
but it's fucking crazy that this is a ten near jump. Anyway,
447
00:26:01.039 --> 00:26:04.000
please continue. These guys are these are guys who Here's
448
00:26:04.039 --> 00:26:07.079
George Gaines by the way, from fucking the Commandant Lassarde
449
00:26:07.160 --> 00:26:12.599
from police Academy is giving them this nonsense, fucking generic
450
00:26:13.359 --> 00:26:14.839
lecture out of college.
451
00:26:15.279 --> 00:26:18.559
Yeah, he's so, what's happening? Is there's a comet called
452
00:26:18.559 --> 00:26:22.400
Colossus that's going to come very close to Earth. I
453
00:26:22.400 --> 00:26:24.119
think it's meant to be a stand in for like
454
00:26:24.160 --> 00:26:25.880
Haley's Comet, and.
455
00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:28.160
Which was all the rage in the nineteen eighties.
456
00:26:28.599 --> 00:26:31.400
It was not so much in the nineties. But we'll
457
00:26:31.839 --> 00:26:35.720
we'll slip past that Doom and read Richard's are they've
458
00:26:35.720 --> 00:26:39.559
built some sort of machine, some device that will siphon
459
00:26:39.839 --> 00:26:42.519
energy from this was a little bit vague. I think
460
00:26:42.559 --> 00:26:45.200
that they're looking to make a device that can harness
461
00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:48.279
energy from this comet. Because it's going so close to
462
00:26:48.319 --> 00:26:51.000
the Earth, it's going to be some sort of clean energy.
463
00:26:51.759 --> 00:26:55.799
There's a malfunction because Reid wanted to go over the
464
00:26:55.799 --> 00:26:59.200
figures the second time and Victor did not, which is
465
00:26:59.440 --> 00:27:04.799
close to the book. There's an explosion. Doom is presumed dead,
466
00:27:05.680 --> 00:27:08.599
but it's he's actually not dead. He has confederates from
467
00:27:08.680 --> 00:27:13.880
his home country of Latveria that, for reasons that are
468
00:27:13.960 --> 00:27:15.240
a little bit murky.
469
00:27:15.279 --> 00:27:17.720
They save him, a little bit murky.
470
00:27:18.359 --> 00:27:22.039
They take him back to his home country. And then
471
00:27:22.079 --> 00:27:26.799
we flashed forward ten more years and I'm sure I'm
472
00:27:26.799 --> 00:27:27.759
glossing over some things.
473
00:27:27.759 --> 00:27:31.880
Oh no, I mean, basically before the craziness Ben, and
474
00:27:31.960 --> 00:27:36.880
we meet Ben and his relationship with Read Richard's and
475
00:27:37.000 --> 00:27:41.039
they're like, Read is like he's in the most hilarious
476
00:27:41.240 --> 00:27:45.319
sort of here's signage to indicate where we are. The
477
00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:51.359
Storm family like boarding house where it's Storms, Sue Storm's
478
00:27:51.440 --> 00:27:55.000
mom and young Sue Storm and young Johnny Storm are
479
00:27:55.039 --> 00:27:58.759
like playing video games in the because they're kids.
480
00:27:59.160 --> 00:28:01.160
So that was irving, by the way, so it's not.
481
00:28:01.079 --> 00:28:05.480
All creepy that little girl is obsessed with older man
482
00:28:05.759 --> 00:28:09.279
Read and to the point of, by the way, okay,
483
00:28:09.319 --> 00:28:12.079
as earnest as everyone was, let's call this fucking movie
484
00:28:12.119 --> 00:28:15.960
when it's bullshit, because it's the fucking most bullshit line.
485
00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:21.319
Everything he's dreaming. She actually says that. She actually presses
486
00:28:21.400 --> 00:28:24.559
her hands against her cheek and watches him walk up
487
00:28:24.559 --> 00:28:27.599
the stairs and says, Read, he's so dreaming.
488
00:28:28.319 --> 00:28:30.720
The only thing missing her little hearts that are shooting
489
00:28:30.759 --> 00:28:33.559
out from her head as she's doing this. But that,
490
00:28:33.759 --> 00:28:35.359
but like I said that, that part of it was
491
00:28:35.400 --> 00:28:39.960
creepy to me because it's vic Reid and Ben are
492
00:28:40.319 --> 00:28:43.359
just those are the actors. They don't change like when
493
00:28:43.400 --> 00:28:43.960
they age.
494
00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:47.559
It's just them they do because they've spray painted Alex
495
00:28:47.640 --> 00:28:51.240
Hyde White's with the white Yeah, yeah, giving him the
496
00:28:51.319 --> 00:28:53.680
gull wing hair the ash special.
497
00:28:54.559 --> 00:28:57.519
But it's and it may be true to the book
498
00:28:57.759 --> 00:28:59.839
because I know that Sue was meant to be much
499
00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:01.000
younger than Reid.
500
00:29:01.440 --> 00:29:04.160
But it's one of cares just started with all of
501
00:29:04.200 --> 00:29:05.720
them graduated.
502
00:29:05.960 --> 00:29:08.000
They didn't need to they could have. They didn't need
503
00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:11.200
to have this ten year jump because it didn't really
504
00:29:11.240 --> 00:29:14.400
add much and it only made me uncomfortable because there
505
00:29:14.559 --> 00:29:18.240
is Sue Storm at eleven or twelve years old mooning
506
00:29:18.279 --> 00:29:21.200
over Reid Richards and you know that they're going to
507
00:29:21.200 --> 00:29:25.799
be romantically involved eventually. So that's a very odd thing
508
00:29:25.960 --> 00:29:30.119
to have to grapple with. But anyway, they.
509
00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:33.599
See that Transformers movie with with Mark Wahlberg, where like
510
00:29:33.640 --> 00:29:37.920
a major plot point is that his daughter is involved
511
00:29:37.920 --> 00:29:40.519
with an older man, and like at one point, the
512
00:29:40.839 --> 00:29:45.000
older man character recites like the Statutes of Limitations for
513
00:29:45.119 --> 00:29:49.319
like minors, and have you seen this movie? It's insanity, man.
514
00:29:50.079 --> 00:29:53.279
I don't think I've seen any of those Transformer.
515
00:29:52.799 --> 00:29:54.480
Movies, So I just want to tell you about it.
516
00:29:54.559 --> 00:29:56.960
Like takes out like a farm. It's clearly at that
517
00:29:57.039 --> 00:29:59.759
time Michael Bay was being accused of untour.
518
00:30:01.079 --> 00:30:05.440
Sure, but it's this is a little some of the storytelling,
519
00:30:05.440 --> 00:30:09.599
and this is a little suspect. But nevertheless, they we
520
00:30:09.720 --> 00:30:12.000
flash forward. Now Read killed Bay.
521
00:30:12.119 --> 00:30:16.039
He's so dreamy, so Read.
522
00:30:15.920 --> 00:30:19.200
Is it's ten years later. Read has built his rocket ship.
523
00:30:20.119 --> 00:30:24.599
Apparently the comet is this colossus comet is still orbiting
524
00:30:24.599 --> 00:30:27.160
the Earth. Somehow it's ten years later. Maybe it's made
525
00:30:27.200 --> 00:30:31.640
its return trip. That was left uncertain in my mind. Anyway,
526
00:30:31.720 --> 00:30:34.799
Now he's going to take this ship up and do
527
00:30:35.039 --> 00:30:39.119
an experiment, a similar kind of thing he Inveigel's Ben
528
00:30:39.400 --> 00:30:40.440
to pilot.
529
00:30:40.079 --> 00:30:42.960
It's Ben as a pilot, so that makes sense. And
530
00:30:43.000 --> 00:30:47.880
then for his astrophysicist and or co pilot and or
531
00:30:47.960 --> 00:30:50.319
other technicians, the Storm kids.
532
00:30:50.359 --> 00:30:54.319
Of course, Johnny Storm in the book he was young too,
533
00:30:55.119 --> 00:30:56.960
but I think in that case it was more like
534
00:30:57.000 --> 00:30:59.920
he was like a prodigy. He was a good mechanically,
535
00:31:00.119 --> 00:31:01.920
so he was going to be an asset to the crew,
536
00:31:02.200 --> 00:31:06.720
whereas in this case, not that Underwood plays him badly,
537
00:31:06.839 --> 00:31:09.240
but he's just a he's just a teenager, and it's
538
00:31:09.559 --> 00:31:13.480
it's unclear why what qualifies him to go on this spaceflight.
539
00:31:13.839 --> 00:31:16.640
He's a hyperactive dummy here in the movie, he.
540
00:31:16.720 --> 00:31:20.599
Got he very wide eyed, a hyper so they go up,
541
00:31:20.799 --> 00:31:23.440
Oh no, but okay, I'm leaving something out here, so
542
00:31:24.160 --> 00:31:26.720
they here's where it gets a little weird, Father Malone,
543
00:31:26.759 --> 00:31:33.039
so he gets weird everybody, so they Reid realizes that
544
00:31:33.480 --> 00:31:36.200
they need some a force field to protect them from
545
00:31:36.240 --> 00:31:40.319
the cosmic rays, if you will, so he arranges to
546
00:31:40.400 --> 00:31:45.160
have this giant diamond be part of the ship's makeup.
547
00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:50.799
It will protect them from the harmful radiation. But there's
548
00:31:50.839 --> 00:31:54.319
this character who's supposed to be the Moleman, but they
549
00:31:54.319 --> 00:31:57.200
couldn't get the rights to the Moleman, so in this
550
00:31:57.279 --> 00:32:01.920
movie he's called the Jeweler. The Jeweler has an obsession
551
00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:07.119
with Alicia Masters, who is the blind Sculptress from the
552
00:32:07.119 --> 00:32:09.440
book to in order.
553
00:32:09.279 --> 00:32:12.400
To tell people who there is, there's a blind sculptress,
554
00:32:12.519 --> 00:32:15.480
and in this movie, she's been hired by the city
555
00:32:15.519 --> 00:32:18.759
to memorialize the Fantastic Four after they're killed.
556
00:32:19.480 --> 00:32:23.440
But that's after this that's okay, So at this point
557
00:32:23.480 --> 00:32:26.960
she is just a sculpturest okay, and he and the
558
00:32:27.039 --> 00:32:30.240
Jeweler is obsessed with her. So in order to give
559
00:32:30.240 --> 00:32:34.759
her a gift, he steals this diamond and replaces it
560
00:32:34.799 --> 00:32:38.759
with a fake At the same time, Father Malone, doctor
561
00:32:38.880 --> 00:32:43.440
Doom is looking to sabotage their flight because now he's
562
00:32:43.480 --> 00:32:47.359
officially Doctor Doom with the costume and the metal mask
563
00:32:47.440 --> 00:32:47.799
and everything.
564
00:32:48.359 --> 00:32:51.079
Lots of fetish shots, like lots of like shots of
565
00:32:51.119 --> 00:32:54.880
the eyelets and the mouth, just the hooded figure and
566
00:32:54.960 --> 00:32:58.119
lots of the fingers. This okay, we'll get to him soon.
567
00:32:58.240 --> 00:33:02.759
Yeah, so he he figures into this. He also wanted
568
00:33:02.759 --> 00:33:05.480
to say, like I said, sabotage this mission, but he
569
00:33:05.519 --> 00:33:08.920
observes the Jeweler stealing the diamond, so he says, my
570
00:33:09.000 --> 00:33:11.640
work is done. I don't know, have to is perfect.
571
00:33:11.680 --> 00:33:13.599
I loved this part of the script. By the way,
572
00:33:14.400 --> 00:33:17.920
this was so comic bookie, like out of left field.
573
00:33:18.000 --> 00:33:20.839
We should also say that the Jeweler character is like
574
00:33:21.119 --> 00:33:24.039
it's a prosthetic makeup on the character. It's made to
575
00:33:24.119 --> 00:33:26.359
look like. Okay, now we're in the comic book world
576
00:33:26.400 --> 00:33:28.799
once this guy shows up, and this really is when
577
00:33:28.839 --> 00:33:30.799
it turns into a comic book because that's when doctor
578
00:33:30.839 --> 00:33:32.960
Duom arrives as well, and now we're getting shouts of
579
00:33:33.039 --> 00:33:35.359
him in the classic mass. The costume for Doctor Doom,
580
00:33:35.359 --> 00:33:38.279
it should be noted, is fucking awesome in this movie.
581
00:33:38.640 --> 00:33:41.480
That's probably my favorite thing out of the whole movie,
582
00:33:41.720 --> 00:33:44.880
which admittedly is maybe a low bar to get over,
583
00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:49.200
but this is the most comic, accurate version of Doctor
584
00:33:49.240 --> 00:33:52.240
Doom that we've gotten. Even to this day, I would
585
00:33:52.319 --> 00:33:55.640
lay claim to this. It's cheap, it's not perfect, but
586
00:33:56.119 --> 00:33:59.599
they got the mask details really good. It's I'm not
587
00:33:59.720 --> 00:34:03.160
over selling it. It's great. But they go up, the
588
00:34:03.279 --> 00:34:07.279
crew goes up in this rocket. The cosmic rays overwhelmed them.
589
00:34:07.359 --> 00:34:11.000
They crash, They they have lost I am flying in
590
00:34:11.079 --> 00:34:21.960
a rocket in outer spacemember, remember astronaut Jones. No, I
591
00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:23.320
want to share it right now.
592
00:34:24.440 --> 00:34:26.000
You might have to produce it into this.
593
00:34:26.320 --> 00:34:29.199
I'm definitely, I'm definitely going to You're gonna, you're gonna.
594
00:34:29.559 --> 00:34:31.559
You're going to laugh when you hear it. It's fantom.
595
00:34:31.599 --> 00:34:35.280
I'm laughing already. So they crash and they've lost telemetry,
596
00:34:35.360 --> 00:34:37.320
so no one knows where they are, and they're trying
597
00:34:37.360 --> 00:34:41.519
to survive. But they're already the powers are already manifesting themselves,
598
00:34:41.880 --> 00:34:45.840
although in a limited capacity budgetary, but for budgetary reasons.
599
00:34:45.719 --> 00:34:49.559
Like, okay, first of all, the capsule of the spaceship,
600
00:34:49.960 --> 00:34:54.960
everyone is in tinfoil like heat suits. Yeah, and they
601
00:34:55.079 --> 00:34:59.280
needn't be. It's really silly. It's typical Corman thing. They
602
00:34:59.320 --> 00:35:01.719
keep saying this was such a great budget, and obviously
603
00:35:01.760 --> 00:35:04.000
it was. This was their biggest budget at the time,
604
00:35:04.039 --> 00:35:06.719
But if you just looked like a couple of years beforehand,
605
00:35:06.800 --> 00:35:10.840
they did Battle Beyond the Stars, and that movie looks great,
606
00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:13.519
and there's tons and tons of space stuff in it.
607
00:35:13.679 --> 00:35:16.480
All that shit looks great. Here this stuff. Obviously they're
608
00:35:16.480 --> 00:35:19.320
only doing one scene with the outer space, and so
609
00:35:19.360 --> 00:35:21.000
they're not going to pay that much attention to it.
610
00:35:21.000 --> 00:35:22.719
They're not going to spend that much money on it.
611
00:35:22.920 --> 00:35:25.920
But I think about Corman Studio. I remember walking past
612
00:35:25.960 --> 00:35:28.920
Korman Studio like every day, just looking at spaceships lying
613
00:35:28.960 --> 00:35:31.159
around in the parking lot. So it's not like they
614
00:35:31.159 --> 00:35:35.039
didn't have more material. I did not like the cosmic sequence,
615
00:35:35.239 --> 00:35:38.360
other than when they were getting their powers and they
616
00:35:38.360 --> 00:35:41.199
were using the step printing process where they're just using
617
00:35:41.280 --> 00:35:44.880
stock footage of lens flares and shit to approximate like
618
00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:47.840
they've been irradiated. I loved that.
619
00:35:49.000 --> 00:35:52.239
But to your point about how bad some of this looks,
620
00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:56.840
I think it's maybe less a budget thing and more
621
00:35:56.880 --> 00:36:01.000
of According to Doomed the documentary, not only did they
622
00:36:01.559 --> 00:36:03.880
have to make this film cheaply, but they had to
623
00:36:03.880 --> 00:36:07.159
make it very quickly. They were always I think they
624
00:36:07.159 --> 00:36:09.360
only I think the it was like I want to say,
625
00:36:09.360 --> 00:36:12.199
it was like a four or five week shoot, which
626
00:36:12.239 --> 00:36:17.000
is insane for something of this that of this supposed scale,
627
00:36:17.480 --> 00:36:19.480
And that didn't leave a lot of time for post
628
00:36:19.480 --> 00:36:21.480
production work. And I think there were some issues. I
629
00:36:21.519 --> 00:36:22.639
think that the money ran out.
630
00:36:22.880 --> 00:36:25.719
Oh yeah, let's just say, even though we saw a
631
00:36:25.760 --> 00:36:29.079
finished film, this is still not a finished film. Honestly.
632
00:36:29.960 --> 00:36:32.280
There are whole sequences where I'm like, there would be
633
00:36:32.400 --> 00:36:34.880
music here, there should be music here. They didn't even
634
00:36:34.920 --> 00:36:36.039
get that far.
635
00:36:36.719 --> 00:36:39.119
Right on the One of the biggest examples of that
636
00:36:39.400 --> 00:36:42.280
is and they talk about it, and Joseph Kulp talks
637
00:36:42.280 --> 00:36:45.440
about this. So he is acting as doctor doom And
638
00:36:45.440 --> 00:36:48.159
I noticed this as I'm watching it. I said, Poya's
639
00:36:48.199 --> 00:36:50.719
voice is really muffled. Did they not do any ad
640
00:36:50.920 --> 00:36:53.840
R on him, because it's as if he's delivering his
641
00:36:53.960 --> 00:36:57.039
lines with the Yes, he's absolutely not only is he
642
00:36:57.119 --> 00:37:00.280
delivering his lines with the mask on, but they never
643
00:37:00.360 --> 00:37:03.840
had him in to loop his dialogue to make it
644
00:37:04.000 --> 00:37:07.800
more intelligible. So that's just one example of the corner
645
00:37:07.800 --> 00:37:10.119
cutting that took place on this picture.
646
00:37:10.320 --> 00:37:13.159
And you know, all obviously he would know that while
647
00:37:13.199 --> 00:37:15.960
he's acting the fucking part, so he's he's not going
648
00:37:16.079 --> 00:37:19.039
full tilt all the time, and like, even if he
649
00:37:19.079 --> 00:37:21.039
fucks something up, he'd be like, I'm just gonna adr
650
00:37:21.119 --> 00:37:21.639
that anyway.
651
00:37:21.760 --> 00:37:24.400
So yeah, I'll fix it. I'll fix it in post.
652
00:37:24.400 --> 00:37:27.239
It's not a big deal. But there was no post
653
00:37:27.360 --> 00:37:29.239
for the actors. But I guess we'll get back to
654
00:37:29.280 --> 00:37:33.280
that anyway. They get picked up this crashed crew, they
655
00:37:33.280 --> 00:37:35.480
get actually before that we're talking about the special effects,
656
00:37:35.480 --> 00:37:39.159
so lack thereof Johnny never gets to really flame on
657
00:37:39.320 --> 00:37:42.880
until the very end of the movie. So while in
658
00:37:42.920 --> 00:37:46.119
the book he flames on almost immediately and they're arguing
659
00:37:46.119 --> 00:37:48.159
and he flies around and this all he does is
660
00:37:48.159 --> 00:37:52.400
he sneezes and the sneeze causes a flame to shoot out,
661
00:37:52.719 --> 00:37:55.440
and that's it. That's all really, And aside from his
662
00:37:55.880 --> 00:37:58.039
hand lighting on fire a few times, you don't really
663
00:37:58.039 --> 00:38:00.880
get much of Johnny doing the human torch thing.
664
00:38:01.239 --> 00:38:03.880
Not a whole lot of experimentation from the four Once
665
00:38:03.920 --> 00:38:05.920
they get their powers.
666
00:38:05.679 --> 00:38:09.239
You know. So they're picked up by people they believe
667
00:38:09.360 --> 00:38:12.760
to be the army, but it's in fact confederates of
668
00:38:12.840 --> 00:38:17.079
Doctor Doom, and he takes them to what they believe
669
00:38:17.079 --> 00:38:21.840
in the military installation, but it's actually his castle or whatever,
670
00:38:22.320 --> 00:38:26.159
and he's trying to harness their abilities, like he's taking
671
00:38:26.159 --> 00:38:29.679
blood from them, he's burning all these experiments. They finally
672
00:38:29.719 --> 00:38:31.840
figure out that this isn't the military. I don't know
673
00:38:31.880 --> 00:38:34.079
what we're going to get out of here. They By
674
00:38:34.079 --> 00:38:38.440
this point, Ben Grimm has officially become the thing. Actually
675
00:38:38.440 --> 00:38:39.360
before we even get to.
676
00:38:39.320 --> 00:38:41.239
That, let's get to that. Yeah, I want to.
677
00:38:41.239 --> 00:38:44.119
Talk a little bit about the thing, like what was
678
00:38:44.159 --> 00:38:48.039
your take on the costuming and the effect work around
679
00:38:48.119 --> 00:38:50.719
Ben Grimm Father alone. I'm really curious what your take is.
680
00:38:51.199 --> 00:38:54.119
I remember seeing the magazine cover and thinking, oh man,
681
00:38:54.159 --> 00:38:56.239
we're in for a fucking ride here. This is going
682
00:38:56.320 --> 00:39:00.280
to be fucking dreadful. And but from the very first
683
00:39:00.320 --> 00:39:02.400
time I saw the movie, the best thing about the
684
00:39:02.440 --> 00:39:07.599
movie is the thing. It's not only almost comic accurate
685
00:39:07.840 --> 00:39:13.760
looks wise, but it moves great when it's being shot judiciously.
686
00:39:14.079 --> 00:39:17.760
The articulation of the mouth is really good. When we
687
00:39:17.800 --> 00:39:20.079
first meet him, and he's asking questions like why did
688
00:39:20.119 --> 00:39:22.519
this happen to me? Read what are you doing? All
689
00:39:22.559 --> 00:39:26.320
of that was great. I mean, they only had one suit,
690
00:39:27.079 --> 00:39:30.599
so they don't really when it's Clabern time. It's more
691
00:39:30.719 --> 00:39:36.960
like quick editing time. But I loved the suit. And
692
00:39:37.199 --> 00:39:40.679
I even like the guy who played Ben before he
693
00:39:40.760 --> 00:39:43.559
becomes the thing, because it's just a stuntman afterwards. It's
694
00:39:43.599 --> 00:39:44.800
like a swamp thing situation.
695
00:39:45.320 --> 00:39:48.000
Yeah, so it's two actors. One guy plays Ben Grimm
696
00:39:48.039 --> 00:39:50.519
in human form, and I agree he's very good in this.
697
00:39:51.199 --> 00:39:55.880
And I also agree with you that when it's shot properly,
698
00:39:56.480 --> 00:40:00.039
the articulation of the thing's face and his mouth and
699
00:40:00.159 --> 00:40:04.239
he's talking, there were moments where I was legitimately impressed
700
00:40:04.320 --> 00:40:08.760
because it almost holds up even thirty years later. You
701
00:40:08.800 --> 00:40:14.079
can see him articulating the words that the actor is speaking.
702
00:40:14.119 --> 00:40:18.280
Sometimes it falls apart because it's not shot well. And
703
00:40:18.880 --> 00:40:21.840
the fact that the Ben grim that the thing that
704
00:40:21.920 --> 00:40:26.800
I know from the comics. He's big, right, He's supposed
705
00:40:26.800 --> 00:40:27.960
to be able to go toe to toe with the
706
00:40:28.039 --> 00:40:31.760
Hulk creatures like that. In this case, all you're getting
707
00:40:31.840 --> 00:40:35.159
is kind of a big stunt man with this suit.
708
00:40:35.920 --> 00:40:39.400
He looks a little puny, punier than he should, I think,
709
00:40:39.480 --> 00:40:42.880
And there's something about the suit itself that reads less
710
00:40:43.719 --> 00:40:47.840
like rock and more like it just looks very latexy
711
00:40:48.199 --> 00:40:49.360
that when he moves.
712
00:40:49.079 --> 00:40:52.480
Around, if it comes off at anything, it comes off
713
00:40:52.559 --> 00:40:54.800
like a lizard skin. You're right, it never comes off
714
00:40:54.840 --> 00:40:57.639
like stone. And they could have just maybe thrown in
715
00:40:57.719 --> 00:41:00.320
some sound effects or had some grit falling off him
716
00:41:00.320 --> 00:41:04.320
to maybe sell that just a little bit, because you're right,
717
00:41:04.400 --> 00:41:07.519
they never really even mentioned that he's a rock man.
718
00:41:08.119 --> 00:41:11.280
Yeah, but it's and the fighting is a little bit goofy,
719
00:41:11.440 --> 00:41:14.519
but I do I do think that's clearly a lot
720
00:41:14.559 --> 00:41:18.480
of time and effort went into the servos that worked
721
00:41:18.880 --> 00:41:21.840
the character's face and mouth, so that part was really good.
722
00:41:22.480 --> 00:41:24.719
There's not really much to be said about Sue Storm.
723
00:41:25.119 --> 00:41:28.960
That's really just your typical matted shots of her, like
724
00:41:29.079 --> 00:41:32.920
half visible, half not visible. I think there's one shot
725
00:41:32.920 --> 00:41:36.280
of her shooting like an energy weapon or like a
726
00:41:36.320 --> 00:41:38.840
shield out of her hand, but that's about as far
727
00:41:38.880 --> 00:41:41.000
as it goes with her. And the less said about
728
00:41:41.480 --> 00:41:45.280
read Richard's stretching ability, the better probably.
729
00:41:45.480 --> 00:41:48.400
Oh h okay, so read Richards anytime he stretches. It's
730
00:41:48.519 --> 00:41:51.639
either a practical effect which looks terrible, or it's a
731
00:41:51.800 --> 00:41:56.519
straight up hand animated like stretch where his clothing is
732
00:41:56.559 --> 00:42:00.280
also stretching inexplicably with like his leg stretches out and
733
00:42:00.320 --> 00:42:05.159
tripped somebody. It's I would rather have had no powers
734
00:42:05.239 --> 00:42:08.280
than the powers that we end up seeing and Sue
735
00:42:08.280 --> 00:42:12.199
Storm the way that's presented that drives me crazy. I
736
00:42:12.239 --> 00:42:16.199
don't care if you just have somebody disappear on screen
737
00:42:16.199 --> 00:42:17.960
and it's the same effect that they've been doing since
738
00:42:18.000 --> 00:42:20.800
the fucking Invisible Man in the nineteen thirties, that's fine
739
00:42:20.840 --> 00:42:25.119
by me. But if the person disappears and two characters
740
00:42:25.119 --> 00:42:28.000
are standing on opposite sides of that person and they
741
00:42:28.079 --> 00:42:32.679
open fire, that person hasn't disappeared, they're just no longer visible.
742
00:42:32.880 --> 00:42:35.679
She would still be shot and killed. And that sort
743
00:42:35.679 --> 00:42:39.159
of thing happens over and over again, where she disappears
744
00:42:39.239 --> 00:42:42.159
a second before somebody lunges where she was standing, just
745
00:42:42.280 --> 00:42:45.960
there like a millisecond ago, and suddenly she's not there,
746
00:42:46.039 --> 00:42:48.199
as if she has gone off to some other realm.
747
00:42:48.360 --> 00:42:49.440
That's not how it works.
748
00:42:50.440 --> 00:42:54.960
She's just invisible to the naked eye. She hasn't de materialized,
749
00:42:55.320 --> 00:42:58.039
and that I did think of that myself after the
750
00:42:58.079 --> 00:43:00.760
youmpteenth time, where there's a guy on either side of
751
00:43:00.800 --> 00:43:03.119
her with a rifle and they both opened fire, and
752
00:43:03.199 --> 00:43:05.599
the joke, not the joke, but the idea is because
753
00:43:05.599 --> 00:43:09.280
she's disappeared, they effectively kill each other. But that wouldn't happen.
754
00:43:10.000 --> 00:43:12.159
That that did make me a little bit crazy too.
755
00:43:12.599 --> 00:43:14.760
Moments like that HP just make me want to turn
756
00:43:14.840 --> 00:43:18.320
up the radio or to take these broken wings and
757
00:43:18.400 --> 00:43:22.239
learn to fly again, learn to live so free. Oli
758
00:43:22.440 --> 00:43:27.039
Sassone the filmmaker here. He was a music video guy
759
00:43:27.280 --> 00:43:30.639
all through the nineteen eighties. He did the autograph song
760
00:43:30.960 --> 00:43:33.760
turn Up the Radio video, He did mister Mister's Broken
761
00:43:33.800 --> 00:43:36.960
Wings video. He did a Juice Newton. He did the
762
00:43:37.360 --> 00:43:39.360
It's in the way that you move, It's in the
763
00:43:39.360 --> 00:43:41.719
way that you use it from Eric Clapton.
764
00:43:41.800 --> 00:43:44.480
He did that video, oh from the Color of Money.
765
00:43:44.960 --> 00:43:47.239
Absolutely. He did a Gloria as Stefan. He did a
766
00:43:47.320 --> 00:43:49.559
Jerry he did when Jerry Lee Lewis finally made his
767
00:43:49.599 --> 00:43:52.519
Great Balls of Fire video in conjunction with the movie
768
00:43:52.559 --> 00:43:55.719
That Was his Life in nineteen nineteen eighty nine, this
769
00:43:55.760 --> 00:43:58.519
guy directed it. He directed a John Lee Hooker video.
770
00:43:58.760 --> 00:44:02.360
So my question is, why is this poorly edited? Why
771
00:44:02.440 --> 00:44:04.719
is this one of the most poorly edited films I've
772
00:44:04.719 --> 00:44:07.880
ever seen? There's no musicality. In fact, while I was
773
00:44:07.920 --> 00:44:10.239
watching it, I kept thinking during the action scenes, man,
774
00:44:10.280 --> 00:44:12.599
they should have gotten a music video editor, or they
775
00:44:12.639 --> 00:44:14.519
should have gotten a music video director.
776
00:44:15.159 --> 00:44:18.480
I'm going to chalk that up again to the conditions
777
00:44:18.519 --> 00:44:21.400
in which this was made. That they didn't have a
778
00:44:21.440 --> 00:44:23.960
lot of time, they didn't have a lot of resources.
779
00:44:24.000 --> 00:44:27.280
I think at a certain point they essentially stole the
780
00:44:27.360 --> 00:44:30.639
reels and they worked post production on their own dime.
781
00:44:31.320 --> 00:44:34.400
So under those types of conditions, it's a wonder that
782
00:44:34.840 --> 00:44:37.800
the thing got quote unquote finished at all. You and
783
00:44:37.880 --> 00:44:41.159
I both agree it's not truly finished. But he, I
784
00:44:41.199 --> 00:44:45.440
got to say in that documentary, he was probably the
785
00:44:45.440 --> 00:44:49.400
most endearing of all of the people that had to
786
00:44:49.400 --> 00:44:54.199
deal with this situation because he is like he's He
787
00:44:54.400 --> 00:44:58.800
comes off as a real ham and eggs director. Somebody
788
00:44:58.800 --> 00:45:02.400
who works for hire probably gets it, takes pride in
789
00:45:02.440 --> 00:45:06.119
getting his work done on time and under budget. I
790
00:45:06.159 --> 00:45:09.000
get the sense a lot that this whole situation, when
791
00:45:09.039 --> 00:45:12.039
it once it finally came to light, the reasons for
792
00:45:12.079 --> 00:45:15.719
making this movie that he was probably completely blindsided by
793
00:45:15.760 --> 00:45:19.519
it and probably offended as a filmmaker. That's his he
794
00:45:19.599 --> 00:45:22.039
says often in this movie. You're a filmmaker. You don't
795
00:45:22.039 --> 00:45:25.079
abandon your film when it's taken away from you. You
796
00:45:25.119 --> 00:45:27.480
do the best you can to finish what you can
797
00:45:28.000 --> 00:45:32.480
and turn in something anything. I think that's probably why
798
00:45:32.519 --> 00:45:35.079
this isn't up to those higher standards.
799
00:45:35.519 --> 00:45:39.960
I will say that whoever the cinematographer was, he did
800
00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:43.880
a good job because this is bare bones Roger Kruman bullshit,
801
00:45:44.039 --> 00:45:47.559
and more often than not, it's lit to his best,
802
00:45:47.599 --> 00:45:51.039
to the best of the cinematographer's ability. This never looks
803
00:45:51.119 --> 00:45:54.559
like a sitcom. This looks like it is attempting to
804
00:45:54.639 --> 00:45:58.519
be a feature film from people who are constantly being
805
00:45:58.599 --> 00:46:01.559
thwarted by their boss and their work being sent straight
806
00:46:01.599 --> 00:46:02.079
to video.
807
00:46:02.760 --> 00:46:05.800
You're right, it does. The sheene of the movie. The
808
00:46:05.840 --> 00:46:09.840
look of the movie is actually pretty good. It's I
809
00:46:09.880 --> 00:46:11.440
would put it on a par with have you ever
810
00:46:11.480 --> 00:46:15.000
seen the pilot for the Spirit TV Show with Sam
811
00:46:15.119 --> 00:46:17.800
Jones and Nana Visitor? Have you ever seen that?
812
00:46:18.639 --> 00:46:19.960
No, you should?
813
00:46:20.079 --> 00:46:21.760
That might be something you want to look into for
814
00:46:21.800 --> 00:46:24.960
another episode. It it feels a little bit like that.
815
00:46:25.159 --> 00:46:27.480
It actually it has a sheene to it. It looks
816
00:46:28.039 --> 00:46:33.000
professionally shot and lit. Where this obviously where Fantastic four
817
00:46:33.079 --> 00:46:35.480
falls apart is mostly in the editing, like you said,
818
00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:39.840
and the special effects. However, one thing I'm sure you're
819
00:46:40.039 --> 00:46:41.559
might be leading up to this, one thing that I
820
00:46:41.599 --> 00:46:45.159
was actually pleasantly surprised by is the fact that this
821
00:46:45.280 --> 00:46:48.679
movie actually had a real score. I wasn't expecting that.
822
00:46:48.760 --> 00:46:50.920
I thought this was going to be source music, like
823
00:46:51.039 --> 00:46:53.880
library music to the nth degree. But they actually got
824
00:46:53.920 --> 00:46:56.679
two guys to come in and compose a score and
825
00:46:56.719 --> 00:46:59.880
have a forty piece orchestra perform it and record it.
826
00:47:00.000 --> 00:48:05.840
I thought that has count for something, definitely counts for something.
827
00:48:05.840 --> 00:48:07.559
There's not enough of it, Like I said, there's whole
828
00:48:07.559 --> 00:48:09.519
portions of the movie where I'm like, where's the music here?
829
00:48:09.519 --> 00:48:14.119
Man and Bravo and Bravo that it's not what At
830
00:48:14.159 --> 00:48:19.199
the time, everyone was just doing Batman. They were all
831
00:48:19.360 --> 00:48:23.159
any superhero related thing that was coming down, either on
832
00:48:23.199 --> 00:48:26.199
television or in the movies. You were getting some variation
833
00:48:26.320 --> 00:48:29.760
of Danny Elfin's either horns or drums, horns or drums.
834
00:48:29.800 --> 00:48:32.760
Even Danny Elfman was sounding exactly like Danny Elfman when
835
00:48:32.760 --> 00:48:34.719
it came to his horns and his drums. Try to
836
00:48:34.719 --> 00:48:37.920
listen to the differences between Dick Tracy and dark Man
837
00:48:38.280 --> 00:48:42.719
and fucking Batman and The Flash and all of the
838
00:48:42.760 --> 00:48:45.480
other Danny. Those are all Danny Elfman scars from around
839
00:48:45.519 --> 00:48:48.440
the same period. What was he doing? Turn one of
840
00:48:48.440 --> 00:48:50.639
those down. You don't need to do Dick Tracy. Can
841
00:48:50.679 --> 00:48:52.920
you think? Can you remember that the Dick Tracy theme
842
00:48:52.960 --> 00:48:53.639
at all right now?
843
00:48:54.480 --> 00:48:58.800
Not even a little bit. Because he became a prisoner
844
00:48:58.800 --> 00:49:01.159
of his own success in terms of the creativity, everything
845
00:49:01.199 --> 00:49:04.039
started sounding the same only from that time period. I
846
00:49:04.039 --> 00:49:06.840
think it's around the time period. That's why a movie
847
00:49:06.880 --> 00:49:09.519
like Midnight Run was such a surprise, because that was
848
00:49:09.559 --> 00:49:12.519
a Danny Elfman soundtrack. But that sounds nothing like any
849
00:49:12.519 --> 00:49:17.960
of the other things. It's guitar forward. It's cool, it's different.
850
00:50:06.559 --> 00:50:10.880
You and I were fiends for Batman when it came out.
851
00:50:11.440 --> 00:50:16.159
We both jumped on that soundtrack. I listened to it constantly.
852
00:50:16.719 --> 00:50:19.239
I got sick of it. I didn't need to hear
853
00:50:19.280 --> 00:50:22.559
it coming out of The Flash or The Simpsons or
854
00:50:22.639 --> 00:50:25.159
any of those things that you just described. It drove
855
00:50:25.239 --> 00:50:26.960
me nuts because it all sounded the same.
856
00:50:27.639 --> 00:50:31.639
I'll say that Midnight Run soundtrack that he did felt
857
00:50:31.679 --> 00:50:34.199
the most appropriate. At the time. I was a big going,
858
00:50:34.239 --> 00:50:36.440
go boying go fan. I'm sure you were too. So
859
00:50:37.079 --> 00:50:40.840
once he started producing scores for movies, it was, first
860
00:50:40.880 --> 00:50:43.320
of all, it was elating because the first one was
861
00:50:43.320 --> 00:50:46.400
Pee Wee's Big Adventure. It was so boingoe but at
862
00:50:46.440 --> 00:50:49.639
the same time so cinematic that it made sense. But
863
00:50:49.719 --> 00:50:51.639
when Midnight Run came out, it was like, Yeah, that's
864
00:50:51.679 --> 00:50:54.360
fucking Danny Aufman because it was guitar and it was
865
00:50:54.960 --> 00:50:59.320
rocky more than anything, and I thought, Wow, he's just
866
00:50:59.360 --> 00:51:02.559
gonna keep this variation going. Like all of these differences
867
00:51:02.559 --> 00:51:06.480
are like his score for his early score for Summer School,
868
00:51:06.639 --> 00:51:28.920
which is like a zydeco score. All that stuff is great, man.
869
00:51:28.960 --> 00:51:31.079
I thought he's just going to be running the gamut here.
870
00:51:31.199 --> 00:51:33.719
But all he was doing was biding his time taking
871
00:51:33.760 --> 00:51:36.760
these jobs until he could start doing his Danny Elfman thing,
872
00:51:36.920 --> 00:51:41.800
which was a child's choir and drums and down.
873
00:51:42.480 --> 00:51:43.360
That's beetlejuice.
874
00:51:44.039 --> 00:51:44.679
That's all of them.
875
00:51:45.159 --> 00:51:47.920
Yeah, that's all of them. And I'm hearing I can
876
00:51:47.960 --> 00:51:50.000
almost hear people listening to this fool and saying, what
877
00:51:50.039 --> 00:51:52.679
about John Williams. This stuff sounds the same, it doesn't.
878
00:51:53.440 --> 00:51:56.679
I reject that because he may be using his tools
879
00:51:56.679 --> 00:51:59.440
are the same the orchestra. But you can't tell me
880
00:51:59.559 --> 00:52:02.519
that soundtrack for Indiana for rad As the lust Arc
881
00:52:03.039 --> 00:52:05.599
is the same as the soundtrack for Superman, which is
882
00:52:05.639 --> 00:52:09.039
the same as a soundtrack for Jaws. I reject that outright.
883
00:52:09.079 --> 00:52:11.199
So anyway, you who have that notion in your head,
884
00:52:11.440 --> 00:52:13.880
get it out right now. So I have not seen
885
00:52:14.000 --> 00:52:16.440
the New Superman yet, but it's my understanding for the
886
00:52:16.480 --> 00:52:20.800
malone that didn't they interpolate his John Williams's theme of
887
00:52:20.880 --> 00:52:22.760
Superman in that movie.
888
00:52:22.639 --> 00:52:27.000
When Superman first comes into action. Yes, there are shades
889
00:52:27.320 --> 00:52:31.000
of the Williams score, which is smart because you're never
890
00:52:31.039 --> 00:52:32.159
going to do anything better.
891
00:52:32.519 --> 00:52:35.360
Ever, it's ever, that's the thing there have been since
892
00:52:35.519 --> 00:52:37.639
let's say, since I don't know did he do this.
893
00:52:38.599 --> 00:52:40.800
What was the last Superman movie he did the soundtrack for?
894
00:52:41.000 --> 00:52:41.840
Was it two or three?
895
00:52:42.440 --> 00:52:45.119
I think it was just Superman Williams so Superman and
896
00:52:45.159 --> 00:52:46.960
then just Superman, and then somebody came in and did
897
00:52:47.039 --> 00:52:49.239
variations on the work he had done for the Because
898
00:52:49.239 --> 00:52:51.239
it was supposed to be one and two, so I'm
899
00:52:51.280 --> 00:52:53.920
sure some of his score was used in two, but
900
00:52:54.280 --> 00:52:57.000
he didn't compose anything new past one.
901
00:52:57.719 --> 00:53:01.559
So let's say, putting aside the Christopher, the original Superman
902
00:53:01.679 --> 00:53:04.440
movies and all the sequels, we're talking about Man of Steel,
903
00:53:05.159 --> 00:53:08.480
the Justice League movies, the all how many Superman movies
904
00:53:08.519 --> 00:53:11.599
have there been since there's Superman Returns. Let's say four
905
00:53:11.639 --> 00:53:17.039
or five Superman movies until the most recent effort. None
906
00:53:17.039 --> 00:53:20.960
of them had any kind of memorable soundtrack. There's a
907
00:53:21.000 --> 00:53:24.800
reason for that. His theme is fucking iconic. That's why
908
00:53:24.840 --> 00:53:27.440
you have to interpolate his theme in the newest one,
909
00:53:27.519 --> 00:53:30.800
because that's what people want. No one will ever live
910
00:53:30.840 --> 00:53:31.199
up to that.
911
00:53:31.800 --> 00:53:36.000
I will say, there's only one score that can compete. Yeah,
912
00:53:36.039 --> 00:53:38.800
it's the song save Me by Remy Zero from the
913
00:53:38.800 --> 00:53:42.400
television series Small Belle. Come on, Baby, Somebody save Me.
914
00:54:15.400 --> 00:54:17.800
You were a big fan of that Small I'm still
915
00:54:17.800 --> 00:54:20.039
a fan of that show Small. I'm still a fan
916
00:54:20.079 --> 00:54:23.639
of that show up until I'm gonna say season seven,
917
00:54:24.199 --> 00:54:29.159
maybe season eight. Here's why I know that it goes
918
00:54:29.199 --> 00:54:32.119
wrong there for me because in its initial run, I
919
00:54:32.199 --> 00:54:35.480
watched the series religiously and I got to about series
920
00:54:35.639 --> 00:54:38.880
seven or season seven, and then I just trailed off.
921
00:54:38.920 --> 00:54:42.679
It just went away. Sometimes that happens with television series, right,
922
00:54:42.840 --> 00:54:45.719
life gets involved. That's a long chunk of time to
923
00:54:46.000 --> 00:54:49.039
invest in a television series. So then I made a
924
00:54:49.079 --> 00:54:52.880
concerted effort. I'm going to rewatch this series from the
925
00:54:52.920 --> 00:54:55.599
beginning and because it had by then ended, and I'm
926
00:54:55.599 --> 00:54:58.199
going to get to the ending, knowing full well that
927
00:54:58.280 --> 00:55:02.039
we were going to get at least briefly Tom Welling
928
00:55:03.079 --> 00:55:06.960
with the s on his chest after ten years, Right,
929
00:55:07.519 --> 00:55:10.079
I'm ready for it. I go to about season seven
930
00:55:10.119 --> 00:55:13.320
and then I just trailed off because I just lost interests.
931
00:55:13.960 --> 00:55:17.599
Basically what happens on that show is as soon as
932
00:55:17.760 --> 00:55:21.320
Lex Luthor is off the show, it is a meandering
933
00:55:21.440 --> 00:55:23.079
and trying to figure out what it is and can
934
00:55:23.159 --> 00:55:25.320
never find its way back ever.
935
00:55:25.719 --> 00:55:27.880
So Rosenbaum is your Lex Luthor.
936
00:55:27.599 --> 00:55:31.159
Then he definitely is my Lex Luthor. Yeah, although Nicholas
937
00:55:31.199 --> 00:55:34.280
Holt we got to get back to back to what
938
00:55:34.320 --> 00:55:36.440
we're talking about here, But I will say Nicholas Holt
939
00:55:36.559 --> 00:55:39.840
is very scary, and that's the first time Lex Luthor
940
00:55:39.880 --> 00:55:41.400
has been that for me. Cool.
941
00:55:41.480 --> 00:55:43.440
I hope to see it soon. Anyway, back to the
942
00:55:43.480 --> 00:55:44.559
Fantastic Four.
943
00:55:44.719 --> 00:55:47.199
I don't even know where we were, Let's talk about
944
00:55:47.239 --> 00:55:49.599
Doctor Doom. So let's just talk you got something to
945
00:55:49.599 --> 00:55:53.519
do there about No, I'm good, right on. Then let's
946
00:55:53.559 --> 00:55:58.599
talk Doctor Doom fully because we've mentioned the costumes. Fantastic
947
00:55:59.000 --> 00:56:02.719
Robert culps on Joseph Kulp, Robert Culp. For those of
948
00:56:02.760 --> 00:56:05.079
you who don't know, it's not going to help you.
949
00:56:05.159 --> 00:56:07.599
If you don't know, you either watched I Spy or you.
950
00:56:07.559 --> 00:56:10.360
Did Greatest American Hero. He was his sidekick.
951
00:56:10.960 --> 00:56:14.599
Yeah, you've either seen Santa's Sleigh or you haven't.
952
00:56:14.800 --> 00:56:17.840
He's he's a very distinctive he. This wasn't like a
953
00:56:17.920 --> 00:56:21.280
total movie star, like a Tom Cruise type, but he
954
00:56:21.599 --> 00:56:24.360
did his fair share of TV a lot of He
955
00:56:24.400 --> 00:56:26.760
probably was on the A Team at some point shows
956
00:56:26.760 --> 00:56:27.559
of that caliber.
957
00:56:27.639 --> 00:56:32.480
You know what My favorite, my favorite Robert Culp performances Colombo. No,
958
00:56:32.639 --> 00:56:34.960
get out of here. I don't watch Colombo. That's your thing.
959
00:56:35.639 --> 00:56:37.519
Oh man, he's great in Colombo, But go ahead.
960
00:56:38.039 --> 00:56:43.039
Mayor Tyler in Turk one eighty two, that's a good call.
961
00:56:43.719 --> 00:56:46.559
When he sees the when he sees the train pulling
962
00:56:46.599 --> 00:56:48.719
in and he noticed and he sees that it's been
963
00:56:49.000 --> 00:56:52.920
graffitoed and that his photo op has now been ruined
964
00:56:52.920 --> 00:56:57.039
once again, and he goes, ah shit like that. That
965
00:56:57.119 --> 00:56:58.679
line reading lives in my brain.
966
00:56:59.199 --> 00:57:01.079
But it's not him and this movie. It's his son
967
00:57:01.840 --> 00:57:05.840
in the Fantastic Four. And we've talked all about Robert Culp.
968
00:57:06.119 --> 00:57:07.199
It's Joseph Culp.
969
00:57:07.280 --> 00:57:10.519
Yes, Joseph Culp a is doctor Victor von Doom, doctor Doom,
970
00:57:10.800 --> 00:57:14.199
the Masked Wonder. He does a lot of hand acting,
971
00:57:14.480 --> 00:57:19.119
obviously Robert Culp's son, Joseph Cupp. Obviously Joseph Culp. Once
972
00:57:19.159 --> 00:57:23.599
he got those gauntlets on and felt those individual little
973
00:57:23.760 --> 00:57:28.719
armor bits over his fingers clicking and clacking, he decided knuckles.
974
00:57:29.000 --> 00:57:32.360
He decided, I know how to play this part entirely
975
00:57:32.400 --> 00:57:33.320
with my hands.
976
00:57:34.480 --> 00:57:38.800
It was that got distracting. But he talks in that
977
00:57:38.920 --> 00:57:44.440
documentary about one of his inspirations was Mussolini. I guess
978
00:57:44.480 --> 00:57:47.159
the director said, watch these Mussolini clips and see how
979
00:57:47.199 --> 00:57:50.559
he's always putting his hands, crossing his arms, doing things
980
00:57:50.639 --> 00:57:52.519
with his hands. And then he did what they did,
981
00:57:52.559 --> 00:57:54.800
like a half and half shot at a shot of
982
00:57:54.880 --> 00:57:57.639
Mussolini and a shot of doctor Doom and you can
983
00:57:57.679 --> 00:58:00.920
see the influence. That's what he's going for. However, there
984
00:58:00.960 --> 00:58:04.559
are moments where it's almost it gets into voguing territory,
985
00:58:04.599 --> 00:58:06.719
where he's doing it a little too much, and it's
986
00:58:06.760 --> 00:58:10.559
a very tight Sometimes it's a very tight shot of
987
00:58:10.760 --> 00:58:13.719
his face with his hands very close to his face.
988
00:58:14.440 --> 00:58:18.360
It's a little distracting, but vocally he I thought he
989
00:58:18.360 --> 00:58:20.800
did a pretty good job despite the mask and having
990
00:58:20.840 --> 00:58:23.800
to really project and maybe this not being the fine
991
00:58:24.000 --> 00:58:26.840
his perceived final vocal take. I thought he did a
992
00:58:26.880 --> 00:58:29.639
pretty good job of embodying doctor.
993
00:58:29.360 --> 00:58:34.199
Doom, Mussolini and Monroe Vogue.
994
00:58:35.679 --> 00:58:37.239
Did you think he? I thought he did pretty good.
995
00:58:37.280 --> 00:58:38.519
What did you think fought him alone?
996
00:58:38.719 --> 00:58:44.119
When the hands started fluttering on screen, I thought, Okay,
997
00:58:44.599 --> 00:58:50.280
here's an actor who feels constrained by that mask and
998
00:58:50.320 --> 00:58:53.920
knowing no one seeing anything he's going to be doing.
999
00:58:54.119 --> 00:58:57.320
So he's doing his best to make his impression, to
1000
00:58:58.960 --> 00:59:02.639
make this his in some way. And then the clickity
1001
00:59:02.679 --> 00:59:05.360
clackiness of the gauntlets themselves made me think, oh, he's
1002
00:59:05.400 --> 00:59:08.079
just having fun with these gauntlets. All of his choices
1003
00:59:08.159 --> 00:59:11.679
just made me keep thinking about his acting choices. Okay,
1004
00:59:12.679 --> 00:59:15.400
those needed to be fucking rained. In not his fault.
1005
00:59:15.400 --> 00:59:19.800
I'm not blaming him. I'm blaming only the director of
1006
00:59:19.840 --> 00:59:23.840
the Turn Up the Radio music video for not fucking
1007
00:59:24.320 --> 00:59:27.800
raining that shit in just through editing. What the fuck man?
1008
00:59:28.039 --> 00:59:32.599
The clickity clacking? What's happening then? Although I do think, yes,
1009
00:59:33.079 --> 00:59:36.360
had that been edited correctly and we have been given
1010
00:59:36.400 --> 00:59:39.039
the performance and they'd given him the time to adr
1011
00:59:39.159 --> 00:59:42.559
all of his dialogue, I think it's a very credible performance.
1012
00:59:42.760 --> 00:59:44.880
I think it's a really good performance of Doctor Doho.
1013
00:59:45.039 --> 00:59:47.920
It's certainly better than anything Julian McMahon did in those
1014
00:59:47.960 --> 00:59:53.519
two big budget, gross fucking movies. And what see better
1015
00:59:53.880 --> 00:59:57.760
than that fucking what twenty fourteen fantastic with the four
1016
00:59:58.119 --> 01:00:01.039
as the a What does that even mean? Fantastia co
1017
01:00:01.239 --> 01:00:02.519
or Fantapha?
1018
01:00:05.000 --> 01:00:10.119
Was Josh Trask Josh Trank Trank? I see Trask Trenk.
1019
01:00:10.480 --> 01:00:13.760
I agree. I was actually curious how you would stack
1020
01:00:13.840 --> 01:00:16.800
him up next to Julian McMahon, because I never look
1021
01:00:17.039 --> 01:00:17.760
rest in Peace.
1022
01:00:18.280 --> 01:00:19.360
I hated him.
1023
01:00:19.760 --> 01:00:22.039
I never thought he was I thought he's a great
1024
01:00:22.079 --> 01:00:26.280
actor in Nip Tuck. He's fantastic. He is not good
1025
01:00:26.320 --> 01:00:27.119
as doctor Doom.
1026
01:00:27.159 --> 01:00:31.760
I'm sorry, he's just playing this kind of laconic version
1027
01:00:31.920 --> 01:00:34.639
of Doctor Doom, and I'm like, that, ain't Doctor Doom.
1028
01:00:34.719 --> 01:00:37.239
Doctor Vuom is the fucking head of Laveria. He was
1029
01:00:37.320 --> 01:00:39.760
his magic. He's fucking bombastic and crazy.
1030
01:00:40.320 --> 01:00:44.119
He looked good though, like his face if you especially
1031
01:00:44.119 --> 01:00:46.719
like if you look at the Secret War limited series
1032
01:00:47.079 --> 01:00:49.840
that is Julian McMahon. If he had been giving the
1033
01:00:49.920 --> 01:00:52.159
right material in the right direction, he could have been
1034
01:00:52.280 --> 01:00:53.760
a really good Doctor Doom.
1035
01:00:54.199 --> 01:00:56.639
Plus I hate all of this, like we have to
1036
01:00:57.039 --> 01:00:59.840
every comic book script does this. We have to re
1037
01:01:00.079 --> 01:01:03.800
write someone's origin in some way for no good reason,
1038
01:01:04.000 --> 01:01:07.159
like in that case, like he's suddenly magnetic now and
1039
01:01:07.199 --> 01:01:12.159
he slowly turns into Doctor Doom like the mask forms
1040
01:01:12.199 --> 01:01:15.199
itself over the course of the movie. Great, that's really clever.
1041
01:01:15.440 --> 01:01:17.360
Do you feel good about yourself that you added that
1042
01:01:17.440 --> 01:01:20.519
to the fucking lore and you like this.
1043
01:01:21.079 --> 01:01:26.079
Got says to be a cloud instead of this skyscraper tall,
1044
01:01:26.599 --> 01:01:30.280
fucking scary alien creature coming to eat your planet.
1045
01:01:30.559 --> 01:01:36.599
That go be crazy so much amorphous cloud in the
1046
01:01:36.639 --> 01:01:40.360
sky and blue lightning and oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
1047
01:01:40.320 --> 01:01:43.559
Yeah, So that's a positive Doctor Doom. In the Fantastic
1048
01:01:43.599 --> 01:01:47.599
four ninety four movie is a positive in my book.
1049
01:01:48.159 --> 01:01:50.960
If they had made this movie, here's what should have
1050
01:01:51.000 --> 01:01:53.559
happened to HP. They should have said they look at
1051
01:01:53.599 --> 01:01:55.559
the suit for Doctor Doom and look at the suit
1052
01:01:55.639 --> 01:01:58.159
for the Thing, and go, we need to rewrite. Right now,
1053
01:01:58.360 --> 01:02:01.079
this is now the fantastic one. This is going to
1054
01:02:01.119 --> 01:02:05.199
be the story of the Thing and Doctor Doom during
1055
01:02:05.239 --> 01:02:08.639
that experiment, getting lost on some other plant and then
1056
01:02:08.719 --> 01:02:11.000
duking it out for tour, and let's spend all the
1057
01:02:11.039 --> 01:02:13.559
money and buy another suit and buy another one for
1058
01:02:13.639 --> 01:02:16.960
him and make this happen, and right now that would
1059
01:02:16.960 --> 01:02:19.960
be a cult classic. We go to see on Friday nights,
1060
01:02:20.719 --> 01:02:22.239
The Thing versus Doom.
1061
01:02:22.960 --> 01:02:24.679
I'm there for it. I'm there.
1062
01:02:25.159 --> 01:02:27.000
Those are the best parts of the movie. Look, other
1063
01:02:27.039 --> 01:02:30.079
performances are good across the board. The performance is pretty good.
1064
01:02:30.119 --> 01:02:33.679
I think Alex Hyde White gets to that sniveling, fucking
1065
01:02:33.760 --> 01:02:35.960
I want to punch you in the face. Read Richard's
1066
01:02:36.280 --> 01:02:39.920
characteristic that I think is essential to that character. Is
1067
01:02:39.920 --> 01:02:41.280
that a compliment? Probably not.
1068
01:02:43.599 --> 01:02:45.960
He's fine. I think he's fine. I'm not going to
1069
01:02:46.039 --> 01:02:52.920
overpraise or underpraise him. I think he's fine. It's nothing special,
1070
01:02:53.480 --> 01:02:56.639
but he doesn't embarrass himself. It's not like he's not
1071
01:02:56.679 --> 01:02:58.599
a bad actor. I can tell that he's a good actor.
1072
01:02:58.960 --> 01:03:01.199
He may just not this may not have been the
1073
01:03:01.280 --> 01:03:04.559
right part for him. And Sue Storm I couldn't really
1074
01:03:04.599 --> 01:03:07.000
get a handle on because she's not really.
1075
01:03:06.920 --> 01:03:10.840
She's completely underwritten. This movie does not pass the Bechdel test.
1076
01:03:11.320 --> 01:03:11.880
Not at all.
1077
01:03:12.400 --> 01:03:12.960
Not at all.
1078
01:03:13.159 --> 01:03:16.360
But then again, some of those are early Fantastic Four
1079
01:03:16.519 --> 01:03:19.920
comic books. She probably probably failed the test as well.
1080
01:03:20.000 --> 01:03:23.000
She's not well written in the early days either. It's
1081
01:03:23.039 --> 01:03:26.400
just a different time. But by nineteen ninety four they
1082
01:03:26.440 --> 01:03:28.079
should have known better and written her.
1083
01:03:29.039 --> 01:03:32.159
Hey, let's write our female lead like a real character
1084
01:03:32.199 --> 01:03:34.639
you would actually want to spend some time with instead
1085
01:03:34.639 --> 01:03:40.559
of just another flighty idiot. He's so dreaming. I don't
1086
01:03:40.559 --> 01:03:43.320
know where we go from HAIRHP, What at the thoughts
1087
01:03:43.360 --> 01:03:43.960
do you have on this?
1088
01:03:45.199 --> 01:03:50.960
I guess ultimately the question is this a success? Should
1089
01:03:51.039 --> 01:03:54.400
this have ever been released? Or is this something that
1090
01:03:54.440 --> 01:03:58.840
maybe was better left as a legend in a vault somewhere.
1091
01:03:59.320 --> 01:04:01.480
I guess that's where That's the only place we can
1092
01:04:01.519 --> 01:04:03.079
go from here. Do you think it's as good or
1093
01:04:03.079 --> 01:04:04.559
bad as the legend suggests?
1094
01:04:04.960 --> 01:04:07.800
I think had they just dumped it onto video cassette
1095
01:04:07.840 --> 01:04:11.440
in nineteen ninety four or ninety five, then it would
1096
01:04:11.480 --> 01:04:16.440
just be a curiosity, the same way the Nick Fury
1097
01:04:16.519 --> 01:04:19.360
movie is a curiosity which you can go watch. David
1098
01:04:19.360 --> 01:04:21.960
Hasselhoff as Nick Fury. It's out there, Nick Fury, Agent
1099
01:04:21.960 --> 01:04:24.440
of Shield. Go check it out. It's readily available. Written
1100
01:04:24.440 --> 01:04:26.800
by David Goyer, Mister, he wrote a bunch of He
1101
01:04:26.800 --> 01:04:29.159
wrote all those again Chris Nolan movies, so he must
1102
01:04:29.199 --> 01:04:31.239
be a good writer. Yeah, check out his work on
1103
01:04:31.360 --> 01:04:35.199
the David Hasselhoff Nick Fury movie. Anyway. Yeah, I think
1104
01:04:35.239 --> 01:04:37.960
had this movie come out then we wouldn't be talking
1105
01:04:37.960 --> 01:04:40.800
about it right now other than in relation to this
1106
01:04:40.880 --> 01:04:43.440
new one coming out, and I don't think we would
1107
01:04:43.440 --> 01:04:45.320
be speaking as favorably about it.
1108
01:04:45.679 --> 01:04:49.280
I agree. I think being suppressed, for lack of a
1109
01:04:49.280 --> 01:04:51.480
better word, is probably the best thing that could have
1110
01:04:51.519 --> 01:04:55.440
ever happened to this movie. Not speaking of the fact
1111
01:04:55.480 --> 01:04:57.719
that the actors didn't get any sort of a boost
1112
01:04:57.920 --> 01:04:59.480
from the picture, I'm not sure they would have if
1113
01:04:59.480 --> 01:05:03.760
this had been dumped onto video. But something that is
1114
01:05:05.039 --> 01:05:08.840
you can only find in bootlegs and handed from geeked
1115
01:05:08.960 --> 01:05:11.880
geek over the years. It gives it cachet that it
1116
01:05:11.880 --> 01:05:15.239
wouldn't have had otherwise. But if I'm judging this purely
1117
01:05:15.360 --> 01:05:18.400
on the film's merit, I don't think we would We
1118
01:05:18.440 --> 01:05:21.679
certainly wouldn't be talking about this movie now if this
1119
01:05:21.760 --> 01:05:23.920
had just come out and gone, because it would have
1120
01:05:24.000 --> 01:05:25.840
just been like it was a goofy attempt at doing
1121
01:05:25.840 --> 01:05:29.360
the Fantastic Four. There's no other there's nothing more to
1122
01:05:29.400 --> 01:05:32.480
add to the story. But this makes it a curiosity.
1123
01:05:32.880 --> 01:05:35.679
Here's what I will say about this. And because apparently
1124
01:05:35.719 --> 01:05:37.840
this is just a property where it's going to continue
1125
01:05:37.880 --> 01:05:40.000
to happen to Thank god it's back at Marvel, because
1126
01:05:40.360 --> 01:05:43.639
the Josh Trank movie is the exact same story. That's
1127
01:05:43.679 --> 01:05:46.039
them holding onto the fucking copyright because it was going
1128
01:05:46.119 --> 01:05:51.159
to revert back to Marvel. And given that comparison, watch this.
1129
01:05:51.679 --> 01:05:54.480
Do not watch the Josh Trank movie. This is one
1130
01:05:54.639 --> 01:05:57.920
thousand times better than that. This one has the spirit
1131
01:05:58.000 --> 01:06:00.639
of the movie. As we've said, you and feel that
1132
01:06:00.719 --> 01:06:03.840
everyone is pulling in one direction, and that direction is
1133
01:06:03.960 --> 01:06:07.320
let's make a good movie here and are really only
1134
01:06:07.480 --> 01:06:10.760
our budget is tripping us up here. Look, part of
1135
01:06:10.800 --> 01:06:13.840
that budget should have been spent on a professional screenwriter
1136
01:06:14.000 --> 01:06:17.400
beyond Chris Nevius, who I know. He's written some movies
1137
01:06:17.400 --> 01:06:21.199
that people like I don't, and I think his script
1138
01:06:21.239 --> 01:06:23.079
is good here, but it needed to punch up from
1139
01:06:23.079 --> 01:06:27.000
somebody who maybe knew the comics better, or New Action
1140
01:06:27.079 --> 01:06:29.159
better something I don't know. There was something missing here.
1141
01:06:29.519 --> 01:06:32.000
The limitations are there, and the limitations are in the direction.
1142
01:06:32.719 --> 01:06:36.519
Also the budget, there are a lot of limitations. Nevertheless,
1143
01:06:37.000 --> 01:06:40.320
if you put all of those limitations together, what you
1144
01:06:40.440 --> 01:06:43.199
get here is a thousand times better than a big
1145
01:06:43.280 --> 01:06:48.559
budget twentieth century Fox movie with a CG lead as
1146
01:06:48.639 --> 01:06:53.840
the thing and perhaps the most ununified Fantastic Four of
1147
01:06:53.880 --> 01:06:57.480
all time, featuring the stupidest version of Victor vondhom I
1148
01:06:57.480 --> 01:07:00.079
have ever fucking seen. And I actually like that actor.
1149
01:07:00.199 --> 01:07:01.920
I'm not holding it out on it. I'm not taking
1150
01:07:01.960 --> 01:07:04.599
anything out on him, but that version of Doctor doom
1151
01:07:04.960 --> 01:07:08.079
Is makes Julian McMahon look great.
1152
01:07:08.559 --> 01:07:11.280
Yeah, it's as you said earlier, like I in watching
1153
01:07:11.280 --> 01:07:14.400
this movie, I was I don't think I was ever bored.
1154
01:07:14.519 --> 01:07:18.519
I might have been confused, but I was pretty consistently entertained.
1155
01:07:18.519 --> 01:07:22.719
And that's that's pretty cool. It was ninety minutes pretty
1156
01:07:22.719 --> 01:07:23.480
well spent.
1157
01:07:23.679 --> 01:07:26.119
It's fleet to foot man ninety minutes that that trank
1158
01:07:26.199 --> 01:07:28.159
movie is more than two outs. Anyway, I'm gonna stop
1159
01:07:28.159 --> 01:07:30.559
baging on it. Where can people find this? Do you
1160
01:07:30.559 --> 01:07:32.000
think is it on the YouTube?
1161
01:07:32.039 --> 01:07:35.960
Maybe it is on the YouTube. You can also get
1162
01:07:36.239 --> 01:07:38.760
I'm sure you can get copies on eBay if you
1163
01:07:38.800 --> 01:07:41.960
want to go that route. Conventions. I bet you this
1164
01:07:42.039 --> 01:07:44.480
is still being sold at conventions, maybe Comic Con.
1165
01:07:44.880 --> 01:07:47.440
Oh man, not probably in the disc form now. He
1166
01:07:47.559 --> 01:07:49.960
probably just put this in your computer. Here's a thumb drive.
1167
01:07:50.400 --> 01:07:52.639
Here's a thumb drive. It's fantastic. Far on it. Man,
1168
01:07:52.679 --> 01:07:54.639
you got the I got what you need here in
1169
01:07:54.719 --> 01:07:56.159
this thum drive.
1170
01:07:56.400 --> 01:07:59.840
It's probably remastered now and remastered in quotes. Of course,
1171
01:08:00.400 --> 01:08:03.800
you can't remaster something that you can't get the source
1172
01:08:03.840 --> 01:08:04.639
material back for.
1173
01:08:04.760 --> 01:08:06.920
Ooh, do you think there's a fan edit of this
1174
01:08:07.039 --> 01:08:09.480
where somebody has gone in and made the effects better?
1175
01:08:10.239 --> 01:08:12.360
No, but now you're making me want to try to
1176
01:08:12.360 --> 01:08:14.400
seek that out, because you can do.
1177
01:08:14.480 --> 01:08:16.439
I'll tell you what it is on home computer, folks.
1178
01:08:16.520 --> 01:08:19.279
If we find anything worth your time, it'll be in
1179
01:08:19.359 --> 01:08:22.159
the show notes section. I'll put a link just to
1180
01:08:22.159 --> 01:08:23.880
the fucking YouTube thing. So you can see what we're
1181
01:08:23.880 --> 01:08:27.560
talking about in general, but if somebody's done something super cool,
1182
01:08:27.600 --> 01:08:31.600
we'll also put it there until next time HP, which
1183
01:08:31.600 --> 01:08:34.239
will be very soon. Oh my god, we're gonna be
1184
01:08:34.239 --> 01:08:36.920
working together too often. Now, where can people find you
1185
01:08:36.920 --> 01:08:39.439
if you're not hanging out here at midnight Viewing? All right?
1186
01:08:39.520 --> 01:08:42.119
So I co host The Night Mister Walter is a
1187
01:08:42.199 --> 01:08:46.319
taxi podcast with my esteemed co host right here father alone.
1188
01:08:47.119 --> 01:08:49.560
I am also an occasional guest in the Culture Cast
1189
01:08:49.600 --> 01:08:53.960
with Chris Dashu. I host the Noise Junkies music podcast.
1190
01:08:54.039 --> 01:08:58.399
And I have a bandcampsite HP Music Place dot bandcamp
1191
01:08:58.520 --> 01:08:59.279
dot com.
1192
01:09:00.119 --> 01:09:02.199
Immediately and check out HPE's music. He does all of
1193
01:09:02.199 --> 01:09:04.640
the music for everything I'm involved with. You're hearing it
1194
01:09:04.680 --> 01:09:06.399
at the beginning and the end of this show. All
1195
01:09:06.399 --> 01:09:09.439
the different variations of midnight viewing actually, because each one
1196
01:09:09.520 --> 01:09:12.960
has its own specific theme, all for mister HP. So
1197
01:09:13.279 --> 01:09:15.640
go check him out. And as for me, you know
1198
01:09:15.680 --> 01:09:18.119
what's happening here. It's midnight viewing. We're on twice a week.
1199
01:09:18.159 --> 01:09:20.640
It's killing me slowly. I'll be dead soon. Just keep
1200
01:09:20.720 --> 01:09:24.560
tuning in until that happens. And oh, what's this is? Friday.
1201
01:09:24.840 --> 01:09:28.760
Monday will be another Fantastic Four that will be Father
1202
01:09:28.800 --> 01:09:32.640
Malone's weekly roundup. That will be the latest Fantastic Four movie.
1203
01:09:32.880 --> 01:09:37.319
That'll be Monday the latest, And then next Friday, Oh
1204
01:09:37.359 --> 01:09:40.720
my god, Next Friday HP will be the start of
1205
01:09:40.760 --> 01:09:43.920
a new fest unless they've come up with a better title.
1206
01:09:43.960 --> 01:09:46.880
Nobody's come up with it yet. But next week's Next
1207
01:09:46.920 --> 01:09:52.520
Friday begins Predator Fest. Ah shit, Starting with the original
1208
01:09:52.760 --> 01:09:55.520
Arnold Schwarzenegger. We're gonna get to the chopper. We're gonna
1209
01:09:55.520 --> 01:09:57.920
talk about the fucking tie business. We're gonna drill it.
1210
01:09:57.960 --> 01:10:00.640
We're gonna find ourselves buried in LA's deepest an Alabama.
1211
01:10:00.680 --> 01:10:05.279
Tick you and me, baby, Continue next Friday, everybody. Until then,
1212
01:10:05.439 --> 01:10:07.880
I'm gonna leave you with a bit of dialogue from
1213
01:10:07.880 --> 01:10:09.119
the Fantastic Four movie.
1214
01:10:09.359 --> 01:10:15.439
Read help me. We were friends once, remember.
1215
01:10:18.840 --> 01:10:19.600
Hang on, Victor.
1216
01:10:23.399 --> 01:10:26.199
You see you have not the courage to strike the
1217
01:10:26.239 --> 01:10:30.079
final blow. Do you, just as ten years ago you
1218
01:10:30.279 --> 01:10:34.319
failed in a moment of triumph, you betrayed me. The
1219
01:10:34.479 --> 01:10:38.399
losses was to be ours together, and now it stands
1220
01:10:38.479 --> 01:10:42.319
between us. You still have a chance to read go on,
1221
01:10:42.960 --> 01:10:46.439
save me. Do not think for a moment I shall
1222
01:10:46.439 --> 01:10:50.159
have a rest until I have it is rightfully mine.
1223
01:10:50.840 --> 01:11:09.319
Here's to the future, my friend, exist.
1224
01:11:24.920 --> 01:12:00.119
Sis Sis sist y