An Interview with Brian Butler, AI and the Legal Practice

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Hello and welcome to Legally Bond, podcast presented by the law firm Bon Chenik and King.
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I'm your host, Kim Wolf Price.
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In today's episode, I'm joined by Brian Butler, a commercial litigation attorney and chair of Bonds Management Committee.
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Hey, Brian, welcome to the podcast.
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Hey, thanks, Kim.
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Good to be back.
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And we're talking to each other through a wall right now.
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That's kind of fun.
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We're on record here.
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Well, the goal for today is to talk about the legal industry and the firm and to spend some time on the topic that's on everyone's minds artificial intelligence and the role of technology in shaping the future of the law.
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So does that sound like a good outline for today?
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Sounds a good plan to me.
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All right.
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So I'm glad we're having this conversation on the podcast instead of just the two of us, because we do talk about this quite a bit and how it's going to impact the firm and how it's going to impact our practice.
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So I'm glad the broader audience gets to be part of it as well.
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Yeah, no, it's great.
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It's a it's a topic that everybody's talking about every day.
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Right.
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Yeah.
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It's it's not all it's not only us for sure.
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That's right.
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Though we want to be, you know, as on top of this topic as we can be, for sure.
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Absolutely.
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Well, so as chair of the management committee, how do you think about the firm today?
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Like what's defining this moment for Bond and for the legal industry?
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You know, it's really interesting to me because the legal industry is usually a bit slow to change and adapt new technologies.
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But I think we're in a moment where the urgency of this is kind of in our face.
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Right.
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And the firms that adopt it and use it effectively, both in servicing their client needs and in operating their businesses are the ones that are going to be most successful.
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I mean, we start from, you know, as we always have, right?
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From a foundation of, you know, our culture, right?
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We're collaborative.
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We work very, very well together.
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We service our clients in a team type environment.
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We're incredibly responsive.
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You know, we value our client relationships and and you know, do whatever we can to foster those.
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And we work together as one firm.
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So we come to any new development in our practice or in technology, you know, through the lens of, you know, our culture, right?
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What's the foundation of our firm?
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How have we been successful?
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But all that can be adapted to technological changes and changes in our industry.
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So that's really what will we try to focus on.
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A lot of things that you and I talk about on a daily basis are really focused on that.
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How do we balance that core foundation of the firm with changes that are happening around us?
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That's true.
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And I mean, we had a town hall meeting with staff today, even talking about this because that communication, especially with change at this pace, is really so important.
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I I just remember when Silicon Valley went business casual and it took like more than a decade for law firms to even start to think about, you know, what that means.
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Right.
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And it was really, you know, it was really COVID that forced firms to do stuff like this, right?
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Have, you know, Zoom meetings and remote appearances.
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And so we, you know, we are we are forced into to that change.
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And I don't really view what's happening now in that sense.
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I think, I think law firms can still operate in a traditional way, but without question, at least in my mind, you know, preparing for the future and setting ourselves up for success in the future to be nimble to change with our industry, to change with our clients' industries and how they operate, their businesses and what they expect from their lawyers.
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Like from my perspective, you know, that is an incredible opportunity for us, even though we're not forced into it, right?
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Like more with COVID.
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It's a great opportunity for us, you know, to evolve and to adapt so that we're ready for these changes, which are gonna, you know, happen at a faster pace than we've ever seen.
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Exactly.
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And then because of the way we're talking about it, we get to be proactive, not reactive, right?
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COVID, there was no choice, right?
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We were reactive, but this allows us to be proactive in this process.
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Completely.
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So as you're talking about this, what are some of the biggest challenges you're seeing in the legal profession right now?
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Opportunities.
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Let me say that.
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What are the biggest?
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No, I know.
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I it's that's a good optimistic uh use of of words.
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And they're there are challenges and opportunities, right?
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But they're they co they coexist with each other, right?
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I mean, the you know, the one thing that I think a lot of lawyers and law firms are struggling with is you know providing services to our clients under this new model, right?
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Our, you know, we've historically had an hourly rate industry, right?
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And most of you know, our financial relationships with clients are based on build billable hours.
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That will that will definitely shift.
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There's no there's no question about that.
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And and you know, we're adapting how we um uh uh developed our relationships with clients based upon that.
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And and they're they're gonna expect that as well.
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But increased efficiencies, that doesn't change how we really how we provide legal services to our clients.
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I mean, that's happened throughout you know our careers.
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I mean, I you know, I've been doing this, you've been doing this for a while, but not that long, right?
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And so, I mean, at least in relative terms.
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Exactly.
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That's kind of you.
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But you know, when I when I started practicing law, people were writing briefs on yellow legal pads.
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Right.
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It wasn't e-discovery.
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We weren't doing electronics.
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Yeah.
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And you know, we might add one at the first firm I started, we had one monitor where we could do online legal research and the website, right?
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And most of it was, you know, most of the stuff that we did was paper.
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And that that evolved and we got more efficient, we became more effective, and we're able to deliver services to our our clients and in a better way.
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And that's that's what this is too.
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I I don't I don't view this as any different.
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It's just that the changes are happening quicker than they have been.
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And so we have to be able to adapt at a greater pace than we had in the past.
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But, you know, that's one of the things here.
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So rates, you know, kind of focus on industry specific specialization, right?
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Our clients expect that the lawyers that they hire know them and know their industries and know the opportunities and challenges that that they have.
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And so really kind of uh keying in on that is is important for long-term success of a law firm.
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We're a service business, and we need to provide services that are geared toward, you know, our client needs.
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So that's a uh, you know, an opportunity that continues to exist for us to evolve and and improve.
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And then, you know, with respect to talent, you know, there's a lot more mobility in our profession now.
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There's some uh expectations of flexibility as well.
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And so providing that in a way that also allows us to be incredibly responsive to our clients is you know can be um can be a challenge, but is also you know an opportunity like like we've discussed.
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You know, we're not to provide the great services that we provide.
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We don't have to, we don't have to be glued to our desk chair, right?
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Exactly, exactly.
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Yeah.
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And so those are all things that I think are you know are happening and the technology is allowing us to, you know, create different opportunities for people and to develop different ways of approaching our work for our clients.
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That I think is really exciting.
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Absolutely.
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I think so too.
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And so I think sometimes uh we get a lot of law students and young lawyers who listen.
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So what's still at the core of being a great lawyer?
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So I I I think not number one is having intellectual curiosity, right?
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And and and that's really centered around problem solving.
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That's what we're that's what we're hired to do, right?
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Clients clients don't come to us for things that they can handle themselves, right?
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They're looking to us for advice, and we have to be curious about their business, their issues, their teams, what types of things you know they consider when making decisions, and then help them solve, you know, solve that problem.
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So that's incredibly important.
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Having great judgment is a you know crucial element, being a good lawyer.
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Our communication skills, and I I even think with you know the advent of and use of AI, you know, those kind of core skills.
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I almost think back to, you know, there was at one point, and I want to offend anybody, but at one point in time, kind of the liberal arts, you know, education was starting to look like, well, maybe it should all be STEM, right?
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Everybody should go, you know, and then you know, study those types of professions in school.
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But I think, you know, the liberal arts training is going to be crucial because a lot of the things that we used to rely heavily on, you know, math, science, and engineering, engineering for us, you know, that we're gonna still need that.
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But some of that will be available to more people than it than it used to be.
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And now it's a communication skills, it's the ability to synthesize information and communicate that out to clients and others, right?
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That'll be critically important.
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And then just maintaining that high level of responsiveness.
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Yes.
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And and and doing that, you just gain trust, right?
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Whether it's people that you're working with or your clients, if you're responsive, if you're on top of things, you know, that that's not gonna be replaced by AI.
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You're gonna, you know, you're gonna have to do that.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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I mean, we hear this, like if we're some of the projects we're working on, we hear this that our our own clients are saying that like that's the thing that they value the most, is how responsive we are, how people get back to them.
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And that will remain, you know, AI can't replace that piece of it.
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Absolutely.
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Yeah.
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All right.
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Well, this all sets up our conversation on AI very well, right?
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Because it's the foundation of being a good lawyer.
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Because the tools are changing, but those fundamentals are not.
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Right.
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So, how are you thinking about AI in the context of bond and then the legal industry more broadly?
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In the context of our firm, you know, we're really looking at it in in two ways, right?
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How can we use this technology to to better serve our clients?
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Right.
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And so that's, you know, that's one piece of this.
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And we look at it, there are a lot of different facets to it, right?
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What are the appropriate tools that we should be employing, right?
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That's one thing.
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And, you know, what are our clients' expectations with respect to, you know, our use of AI, both and how we deliver the services to them and what our rates are, which we just talked about, and all those types of things.
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And then how are we going to use it in a responsible and ethical way, right?
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A responsible, you know, manner includes all sorts of things, including, you know, the security of our information and our clients' information, right?
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We know that these some of these tools reach out to, you know, to the web, right?
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And can be disclosed.
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And we have to be really careful about that.
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And we set up processes and and security internally to prevent that from happening.
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And then, you know, the ethical use.
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I mean, we see, you know, we see things in the legal news all the time.
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It's not actually in the in the just the legal news.
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I mean, it makes national management lawyers don't use it appropriately.
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So we're really, we're really focused on that.
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And so we look at it as another just another tool, right?
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It's another tool that we have to use responsibly and ethically and effectively to provide legal services to our client.
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But we definitely don't use it as a replacement for lawyers and or or or associates for that matter.
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I mean, I've heard some people say, oh, you know, this AI will take the place of first and second year or third year of associated work.
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I don't see that as the as a case at all.
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I actually think it's exciting for them because they're not going to be stuck in conference rooms reviewing boxes of documents like we were, Ken.
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And there's so many paper cuts, really.
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Exactly.
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I mean, we can start, you know, it actually causes us to think about how we mentor and train associates because it will cause them to start thinking about the stuff that is really exciting about being a lawyer, which is the strategic thinking, which is the case development.
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It's not the it's not the mechanics of doing a doc review, right?
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So I think it's exciting.
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It's great.
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I think it's going to be great.
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You were talking a bit about that balance, like the, you know, I think people have a lot of excitement and then there's a lot of concern.
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And we have a practice group that helps clients with these issues of AI, and of course, our data privacy and cybersecurity practice group as well.
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And then we have this higher ed practice group that has academic freedom and you know, everything's about a balance.
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At the firm or in the law, can you talk a little bit more about that balance, the use and the safety?
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And, you know, are there is it a constant education or policies?
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How do you kind of manage that?
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Yeah, and I mean, uh and as as lawyers, I think that's a foundational requirement.
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We're we are required to stay on top of changing technologies, right?
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That's actually one of the specified ethical Yeah, the rules of professional, right?
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Yes, it's true.
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So, you know, we can start from that point and then balance our use of technology against you know how how we use it responsibly and ethically.
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And those if if you do it the right way, that is not as challenging as it could be, right?
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Because when you start like we do at our firm from a foundation of, you know, one kind of mentoring and education, right?
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We're we're constantly providing programming to our attorneys around topics like this, right?
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So that they know, hey, here's what's available to us, and here's what what the risks are, right?
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And the and the opportunities, like like we talked about.
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And then so once you once you have that core knowledge base, then ensuring that, you know, this balance is maintained between effectively using the technology, but not, you know, using it to the point where, you know, it's ineffective or irresponsible, you know, that becomes a bit easier.
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And I think we do a really good job with the foundational work that's required in order for us to be able to, you know, to balance satisfactively.
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Yeah, it's so important, right?
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Because it's changing so frequently.
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I think we've updated our AI policy several times already to stay on top of the changes.
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We were in a um a prompt engineering class together, and now that's not even part of what is that, 18 months ago?
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Yeah, I don't even I've heard that term since then.
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Yeah, exactly.
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That's how much this has changed and how quickly that reminded me of old school online database research a little bit, prompt engineering, like yes, query correctly, exactly you know, and I don't even think students today in law schools learn that terms and connectors way of searching natural language.
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So this for them, this is gonna be easy adoption, I think.
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That's right, exactly.
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Yeah, and I think I think that's just a perfect, a perfect example.
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When we started in our online research on Lexus and Westline, you had to be pretty darn good creating your search to get the right results, right?
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And and and the technology's changed there so much that you know, kind of that natural language, you know, questioning works, right?
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And that's the same thing when when AI started, we're in the same, yeah.
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The fact that they called prompt engineering indicates how technical it actually was.
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And now it's like asking your friend or your work colleague a question, right?
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That's it.
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Yeah, you're just like, hey, you know, um, what should I do about X to a friend?
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And that's actually no, you get better, and that's the other thing.
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You you do get better at it though, yeah when you're more knowledgeable about the area you're in.
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You get better, you know, you get better results when you draw from your experience and your learning, but you can ask a pretty basic prompt to get started.
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Right, right, exactly.
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Yeah, and it's and I I think it's important to know that, you know, as with any other technology, you know, the more you use it, the better, you know.
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Yeah.
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The more, the more you get out of it, right?
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And so, you know, we're encouraging people in the firm to do that, right?
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We just you know, you just had a meeting with some of our senior administrative folks.
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And one of the messages to them was use it, right?
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Take take some time every day to just be curious about it.
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And, you know, if you think of something, you know, try to use AI to solve that problem and see how it see how it works.
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So that's that's part of it, you know.
00:19:25.440 --> 00:19:33.279
It's just uh, you know, have the curiosity to say, hey, what can this do to help me in my you know, my work?
00:19:33.759 --> 00:19:34.240
Exactly.
00:19:34.400 --> 00:19:36.000
How can I make this product better?
00:19:37.279 --> 00:19:38.160
Yeah, absolutely.
00:19:38.319 --> 00:19:40.319
So with clients, is it a mix?
00:19:40.480 --> 00:19:45.359
Like are some clients expecting firms to use it and others are still a bit cautious?
00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:54.400
So from from what I'm hearing from clients, they they expect what they've always expected, right?
00:19:54.720 --> 00:20:01.519
Is for us to deliver high quality, efficient, and effective legal services to them.
00:20:02.240 --> 00:20:09.599
And you know, included in that is using technology that is available to us to do that, right?
00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:20.799
And so whether they say we want you to use AI or not, that's you know, I I don't I don't think that's the request, right?
00:20:20.880 --> 00:20:22.319
Or the expectation.
00:20:22.640 --> 00:20:29.200
It's clients are savvy, they're keeping up with this technology as well.
00:20:29.359 --> 00:20:34.960
Their workforce is becoming more efficient and how they operate on a daily basis.
00:20:35.039 --> 00:20:36.720
So they just expect that from us.
00:20:37.200 --> 00:20:37.279
Right.
00:20:38.079 --> 00:20:53.279
And and so, you know, whether clients are coming to us and saying you have to use AI or not, you know, I'm I'm not, I don't think we necessarily get that every day, but the expectation is that we use the technology to better serve them, right?
00:20:53.359 --> 00:20:53.680
Yeah.
00:20:53.839 --> 00:20:55.680
And so that's what we're doing, right?
00:20:55.839 --> 00:21:08.640
And and it's also, I think one of the interesting components of our practice since we've really dug into this and we've created uh teams to explore our use of AI.
00:21:08.720 --> 00:21:13.279
It actually has allowed us to counsel clients in that area as well.
00:21:13.519 --> 00:21:17.039
There are a lot of regulated industries.
00:21:17.359 --> 00:21:26.799
There are significant, you know, employment-related issues with respect to the use of AI and all those things.
00:21:26.960 --> 00:21:49.039
You know, our internal digging as to, you know, how we're going to use it and how it can be effective in helping us operate our business has also allowed us to gain the necessary level experience to advise our clients on how they should be using it as well, which is a cool outgrowth of the work that we've been doing over the past two and a half years.
00:21:49.359 --> 00:21:50.319
Yeah, it's terrific.
00:21:50.400 --> 00:21:59.759
And I I think it was it was January 2024, and you and I were at a a bar meeting in New York City, and someone was like, our a client had asked, told them they had.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:02.480
To use it, and we were like, okay, here we go.
00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:16.799
Like, we're it's like we're taking off, and the difference between January 2024 and today, and how much research and learning we have done as a firm is really it's pretty amazing, right?
00:22:17.039 --> 00:22:29.039
But I think I think back then too, the the interesting part about that, I remember the client request was something like with the advent of chat GPT, why do we need you, lawyer?
00:22:29.279 --> 00:22:29.599
Right.
00:22:30.400 --> 00:22:37.119
And and I think I think what we've learned over the past couple of years that that's not gonna be the case.
00:22:37.279 --> 00:22:42.319
I don't think anybody, I don't think anybody thinks like that anymore.
00:22:42.480 --> 00:22:42.640
Right.
00:22:42.880 --> 00:22:48.720
And and when that craze was happening when chat GPT came out, that was the fear, right?
00:22:49.039 --> 00:22:55.680
Hey, we're just next month, you know, we're gonna be gone because ChatGPT can be the lawyer for everybody.
00:22:55.839 --> 00:23:05.359
We know that's not the case because it requires so much more to provide the level of advice that we're providing to our to our clients.
00:23:05.599 --> 00:23:10.960
So knowing their industry, knowing their business, knowing them and their risk tolerance.
00:23:11.359 --> 00:23:18.960
And and using our judgment and experience, which has been developed over a significant amount of time.
00:23:19.279 --> 00:23:19.599
Yeah.
00:23:20.240 --> 00:23:23.680
And our interpersonal skills, right?
00:23:23.920 --> 00:23:25.200
Communicate with people.
00:23:26.240 --> 00:23:32.400
Because we don't, you know, chat chat GPT is not gonna negotiate a deal with Claude, right?
00:23:33.359 --> 00:23:37.039
And it's gonna be a lawyer and lawyer negotiating the deal.
00:23:37.279 --> 00:23:39.440
So then do that stuff.
00:23:39.680 --> 00:23:56.640
And so it's, you know, I think clients and lawyers have come to the realization that this is not gonna replace us, it's just gonna cause us to, you know, use our kind of strategic minds, maybe more than than we're required to do when we had to do the, you know, kind of grump work, right?
00:23:56.880 --> 00:23:58.400
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
00:23:58.640 --> 00:24:09.440
Well, that could that's a good way to transition to, you know, we talked a little bit about younger lawyers and law students starting out, but what are some of the positive things you think it means for their careers?
00:24:10.319 --> 00:24:13.839
Yeah, you know, they're so well positioned for this, right?
00:24:14.160 --> 00:24:20.480
Because they don't have to be trained to adapt to new technologies.
00:24:20.640 --> 00:24:24.240
They've all been doing it, you know, from birth, right?
00:24:24.400 --> 00:24:30.079
And so this might, I mean, to a certain extent, it it might be kind of commonplace for them.
00:24:30.319 --> 00:24:40.079
But I I almost think about it more from the experienced supervising lawyer who's training them.
00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:40.640
Yeah.
00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:50.079
We're we're gonna have to think about how we do that differently because some of this technology is so powerful.
00:24:50.240 --> 00:25:08.000
Like really, I think we're gonna have to get into much more into, you know, the kind of thought process and strategic considerations and really in-depth mentoring on our clients, business, and industry, right?
00:25:08.160 --> 00:25:15.200
Those are gonna be the critical skills that associates need to bring to the table.
00:25:15.359 --> 00:25:26.079
And and they're gonna be able to do that now years in advance for when they were otherwise asked to do that, you know, five, ten years ago, right?
00:25:26.319 --> 00:25:27.039
That's so true.
00:25:27.440 --> 00:25:28.480
When it was mechanical.
00:25:28.640 --> 00:25:29.759
I mean, in a sense, right?
00:25:29.920 --> 00:25:37.039
You were going through documents and you're doing initial drafts of briefs and you're putting together parts of motions, right?
00:25:37.119 --> 00:25:40.960
That's still all gonna happen, but but it's just gonna be done much more efficiently.
00:25:41.119 --> 00:25:46.880
So it'll allow allow those associates to do higher level legal work earlier on in their careers.
00:25:47.039 --> 00:25:56.079
But we have to, as more experienced lawyers, recognize that and train people in that manner.
00:25:56.640 --> 00:26:02.880
And we like, you know, lawyers don't often think about, well, you know, I think we have tried to, but emotional, right?
00:26:03.039 --> 00:26:06.799
The EQ, the emotional intelligence, the how to communicate.
00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:09.119
We're gonna have to talk to them about those parts.
00:26:09.200 --> 00:26:16.400
And while you and I were riding the wave of what is electronic discovery, like, what do you mean this person has 2,000 emails?
00:26:16.480 --> 00:26:29.519
You know, like that that is just ballooned so much that it was causing people to be embedded in that kind of data, you know, and now they can move past that to get to the more interesting stuff.
00:26:29.920 --> 00:26:30.720
Yeah, absolutely.
00:26:30.880 --> 00:26:38.480
So I, you know, when I talk to associates about this, I you know, I think it's exciting.
00:26:38.799 --> 00:26:49.039
I would love to be, you know, starting my career at a time when things are changing and evolving because you're right into it, right?
00:26:49.200 --> 00:26:54.000
You don't have to sh you don't have to shift gears after practicing law for 30 years.
00:26:54.240 --> 00:26:57.519
So I think it's a great, great opportunity for that.
00:26:57.839 --> 00:27:06.400
A lot of this that we've been talking about today, you know, adopting the technology and how it's not just the tools, it's about people's use and adoption.
00:27:06.480 --> 00:27:08.799
This is all change management, really.
00:27:09.119 --> 00:27:17.279
So two and a half years into your first term as chair of the management committee, what have you learned about how to approach that?
00:27:18.160 --> 00:27:28.000
I you know, I think the communication piece is the most significant component to change management.
00:27:28.160 --> 00:27:36.559
And and and part of it is you know getting that, you know, taking the steps to get the buy-in, right?
00:27:36.799 --> 00:27:42.240
And sometimes that can take a little bit longer than we might like, right?
00:27:42.400 --> 00:27:45.039
Because we have to talk, talk to people about it, right?
00:27:45.119 --> 00:28:03.839
Before we make final decisions, you gotta reach out and talk to the stakeholders about what we're thinking about, talk to them about why we're doing it, talk to them about how it's going to improve whatever aspect of our business that, you know, we're changing.
00:28:04.160 --> 00:28:12.240
And then, and then you have that kind of groundswell under underneath you when you when you start to make and implement those changes.
00:28:12.400 --> 00:28:13.839
So that's really, really important.
00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:22.799
I actually early on in um in my tenure in in this role, we rolled something out and I didn't spend enough time talking to people about it.
00:28:22.880 --> 00:28:24.720
And it and it wasn't successful.
00:28:24.960 --> 00:28:31.359
We had to go back and revisit it and have more conversations about it.
00:28:31.519 --> 00:28:40.000
And and I really learned from that that that initial groundwork is incredibly important when you're trying to make change.
00:28:40.160 --> 00:29:03.440
But then I also think, you know, just having that leadership mindset is not just me, but it's members of our management committee, it's our administrative leadership, it's practice group leaders, having that mindset that the continual evolution of our business is important and exciting, right?
00:29:03.759 --> 00:29:04.160
Exactly.
00:29:04.720 --> 00:29:09.839
If we're in that, if we're in that mode, then that translates to everyone else.
00:29:10.079 --> 00:29:20.960
And so when we're talking about change, people get excited about it rather than you know, kind of getting a little ache in their stomach about what we're what we're about to do.
00:29:21.039 --> 00:29:30.079
It it turn it turns into, hey, this is a really cool opportunity for us, rather than, oh, there's a drag that we have to change the way we're doing our business.
00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:39.680
So I think part of that is just really focusing on, you know, how we're, you know, how the leaders of the firm are responding to this change.
00:29:39.759 --> 00:29:44.880
And that, you know, that naturally kind of filters out everybody else.
00:29:45.039 --> 00:29:47.759
I think that's a huge, a huge thing.
00:29:47.839 --> 00:29:58.160
And then the other the other piece, and I have a hard time with this, and you keep me in check, is overwhelming people with repeated changes.
00:29:59.680 --> 00:30:04.160
And I actually I I checked myself today.
00:30:04.240 --> 00:30:13.119
I was I was going to send an email to one of our administrative people asking, you know, what are we doing with respect to X?
00:30:13.519 --> 00:30:14.799
And I thought, ah, you know what?
00:30:14.880 --> 00:30:16.000
I'm not gonna do that to them.
00:30:16.400 --> 00:30:18.319
They have too much on their plate already.
00:30:18.559 --> 00:30:18.880
Okay.
00:30:19.200 --> 00:30:20.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:30:23.440 --> 00:30:24.720
It's hard though, right?
00:30:24.799 --> 00:30:28.640
When you're excited, you want the change, and like there's this excitement.
00:30:28.720 --> 00:30:36.880
And sometimes I do think we kind of have to check each other, like we have to say, like, okay, but like let's make sure everybody's everybody's with us at this speed.
00:30:37.119 --> 00:30:38.559
We're as close as we can get.
00:30:38.799 --> 00:30:39.039
Right.
00:30:39.119 --> 00:30:41.599
And you're really good, you're really good about that.
00:30:41.839 --> 00:30:44.000
And and I appreciate that.
00:30:44.240 --> 00:30:50.000
And but but it is it it's also, you know, it's good to have ideas.
00:30:50.240 --> 00:30:50.559
Yes.
00:30:50.720 --> 00:30:57.519
And it's good to kind of record those in some way so you don't forget about it, right?
00:30:58.160 --> 00:31:04.400
And it's good to give those some thought, but you can't implement them all at the same time, right?
00:31:04.880 --> 00:31:20.160
Because it just overwhelms people, it overwhelms our systems, and so, you know, I think measured change, but at a pace that supports the changes in our industry, that makes that makes more sense.
00:31:20.319 --> 00:31:30.640
And sometimes I think it's it's difficult to do, but I think we've been pretty successful in and achieving that kind of measured growth and change.
00:31:30.960 --> 00:31:33.440
And sometimes it's something that has to change fast.
00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:38.079
And then if people have that trust in you, they're they understand that this is one that's got to go fast.
00:31:38.240 --> 00:31:47.359
Yep, that's because you've developed that, you know, they they there's communication, there's transparency, you have that track record, and they're like, okay, I guess this one's gotta happen right now.
00:31:47.440 --> 00:31:49.200
And you just take care of it.
00:31:49.440 --> 00:31:53.359
And you have to give people time to start something and complete it.
00:31:53.599 --> 00:31:54.720
Yes, that's good too.
00:31:54.799 --> 00:31:55.519
I do like that.
00:31:55.680 --> 00:31:56.160
Yeah.
00:31:58.720 --> 00:32:01.440
Before before throwing something new at them.
00:32:01.759 --> 00:32:03.519
But it's, you know, it's it's great.
00:32:03.599 --> 00:32:25.279
And it it's uh again, I mean, I think for for us, for me, it's really it's a really exciting time because there are so many opportunities to to change in a positive way based upon everything that's happening in our in our industry and with our clients and in our communities that gives us that kind of motor and drive to to do it, right?
00:32:25.519 --> 00:32:25.920
Absolutely.
00:32:26.000 --> 00:32:33.440
I mean, uh so many of the we're in a lot of communities, but so many of them have really cool things in the industries and sectors we're in.
00:32:33.839 --> 00:32:37.279
Some of them are facing big challenges and are turning them into opportunities.
00:32:37.359 --> 00:32:40.480
So it does, it just sort of motivates you to keep going.
00:32:40.720 --> 00:32:40.960
Yeah.
00:32:41.119 --> 00:32:56.000
And and some of the things that, you know, that we're doing in internally benefit our not just our clients, but our communities, because we're, you know, we're so involved throughout, you know, all the communities that we serve.
00:32:56.160 --> 00:33:00.880
We're we are integral and involved in the work that the communities are doing.
00:33:01.039 --> 00:33:16.640
So the experience that we have here and the changes that we're making here, and the developments in our industry and our knowledge of the changes in our clients' industries, that allows us to contribute in a more meaningful way, you know, to the growth and development of our community.
00:33:16.799 --> 00:33:20.000
So it's all it all fits, you know, it all fits together, right?
00:33:20.160 --> 00:33:30.000
If you think about it and in a way where, you know, we do we want to be really good community partners, you know, you just bring all that to the table too.
00:33:30.160 --> 00:33:33.440
So that's I think that's been really cool as well.
00:33:33.920 --> 00:33:34.559
I do too.
00:33:34.720 --> 00:33:35.119
I agree.
00:33:35.359 --> 00:33:35.599
All right.
00:33:35.680 --> 00:33:45.119
So I guess final question, since we're talking about all of this as attorneys are sort of navigating this change, whether it's AI or other things in our industry.
00:33:45.279 --> 00:33:47.759
Um, do you have any sort of final advice?
00:33:48.720 --> 00:33:55.119
Yeah, I think that, you know, staying curious and having that intellectual curiosity is key.
00:33:55.359 --> 00:33:59.680
And be, you know, being open to the change, right?
00:33:59.839 --> 00:34:02.880
Things and it's and it's all, you know, it's always happened.
00:34:02.960 --> 00:34:06.319
It's happened over the course of of our careers.
00:34:06.559 --> 00:34:07.920
It's gonna continue to happen.
00:34:08.000 --> 00:34:13.360
So the AI as it exists now, it's gonna be different in two years, it's gonna be different in five years.
00:34:13.440 --> 00:34:16.800
So just accept it and you know, run with it.
00:34:16.960 --> 00:34:23.679
And I think the people who do will be really, really successful and happy and in their work.
00:34:24.079 --> 00:34:29.360
And then on the client service part, that like that is what we're here for.
00:34:29.599 --> 00:34:40.000
If we can focus on that, focus on delivering great services to our clients, being there for them, being responsive to them.
00:34:40.559 --> 00:34:41.679
That is key.
00:34:41.920 --> 00:34:50.079
And and and you know, and also you know, kind of accepting the fact that their businesses are changing and adapting.
00:34:50.239 --> 00:34:50.719
Yeah.
00:34:50.960 --> 00:34:54.960
And, you know, being receptive to that as well, right?
00:34:55.039 --> 00:35:00.000
The old way of doing things might not be the way it works now for them, right?
00:35:00.159 --> 00:35:00.239
Right.
00:35:00.559 --> 00:35:03.199
So we have to think about it in that way as well.
00:35:03.360 --> 00:35:13.760
So yeah, I mean, really the key is kind of staying staying curious, being responsive, and doing great legal work, right?
00:35:13.920 --> 00:35:14.239
Yeah.
00:35:14.719 --> 00:35:15.679
Yeah, absolutely.
00:35:15.760 --> 00:35:18.639
It's not you say this often, you're like, guys, it's not as complicated.
00:35:18.719 --> 00:35:19.760
This is what we have to do.
00:35:19.920 --> 00:35:21.280
No, just be great.
00:35:21.440 --> 00:35:22.159
That's the that's it.
00:35:22.239 --> 00:35:22.800
Just be great.
00:35:23.280 --> 00:35:28.239
Some of our some of our lawyers are rocket scientists, but this is not rocket science.
00:35:29.920 --> 00:35:31.280
We do have rocket scientists.
00:35:31.599 --> 00:35:32.960
We do have rocket scientists, yeah.
00:35:33.199 --> 00:35:37.119
We do, we do, and geneticists and all kinds of mathematicians, everything.
00:35:39.280 --> 00:35:39.599
All right.
00:35:39.760 --> 00:35:40.639
Well, thanks, Brian.
00:35:40.719 --> 00:35:45.840
I think sort of ending with that point of being curious and responsive so that you can do great legal work.
00:35:46.000 --> 00:35:48.079
That's really the right note to end on today.
00:35:48.239 --> 00:35:49.440
Thanks for joining us.
00:35:49.760 --> 00:35:50.079
Thank you.
00:35:50.320 --> 00:35:51.679
Thanks for sharing your perspective.
00:35:51.840 --> 00:35:52.400
I appreciate it.
00:35:52.559 --> 00:35:53.760
Good conversation.
00:35:54.079 --> 00:35:57.280
And just of course, you know you're getting invited back soon.
00:35:57.440 --> 00:36:00.320
So we'll producer Kate and I'll see you again soon.
00:36:01.360 --> 00:36:01.920
Thanks.
00:36:02.239 --> 00:36:03.039
All right, thanks, Brian.
00:36:03.519 --> 00:36:04.480
All right, thanks a little.
00:36:08.639 --> 00:36:11.119
Thank you for tuning into this episode of Legally Bond.
00:36:11.199 --> 00:36:20.000
If you're listening and have any questions for me, want to hear from someone at the firm, or have a suggestion for a future topic, please email us at legally bond at bsk.com.
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00:36:24.800 --> 00:36:26.639
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