Analyst Talk - Brandy Schiber - Seeing What Others Overlooked

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Welcome to Analyst Talk with Jason Elder.
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It's like coffee with an analyst,
or it could be whiskey with an
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analyst reading a spreadsheet,
linking crime events, identifying a
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series, and getting the latest scoop
on association news and training.
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So please don't beat that analyst
and join us as we define the law
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enforcement analysis profession.
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One episode at time.
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Thank you for joining me.
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I hope many aspects of
your life are progressing.
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My name is Jason Elder, and today
our guest has 20 years of law
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enforcement analysis experience.
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She has a Master's of Science in Security
Studies from Sam Houston State in Texas.
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She's a IALEIA FIAT instructor,
and currently the Strategic
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Outreach Committee Chair.
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Representing the great state of
Texas, please welcome Brandy Schiber.
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Brandy, how we doing?
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I'm good.
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How are you?
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I am doing well.
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How is Texas these days?
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The weather is bipolar.
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It's 40 in the morning
and 80 in the afternoon.
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So other than that, we're surviving.
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. Well, wait a couple of months,
and then it'll just be hot.
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We're getting there.
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All right.
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Very good.
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We got a lot to go over.
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Really interested in getting your
perspective your story, your journey.
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Obviously we're gonna talk about
IALEIA talk about standards
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which is very important.
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But let's start from the beginning.
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How did you discover the law
enforcement analysis profession?
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I actually wanted to be a cop from
the time- ... I was about three, and
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this is back in the '80s when the show
Cops... I think it's still on, but
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this is back in the heydays, right?
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And so I remember watching Cops as a tot.
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Probably shouldn't have
been watching it, but I was.
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That's what I wanted to be.
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I wanted to be a cop.
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And as I got older, I was fortunate enough
to go to a relatively large high school.
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And they had a criminal justice class,
which at the time that was unheard of.
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But I was fortunate enough,
again, to be at a relatively
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large affluent high school.
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So I took a criminal justice class,
and this is around the time that I
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realized you're 5'5" and 110 pounds-
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115 on, a heavier day, like
your ... Y- you are going to get hurt.
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And you're also going to be a
liability to every officer around you.
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So the chances that's gonna
happen are slim to none.
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You need to be looking at alternatives.
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So I was very much interested
in psychology at the time.
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I was also in a psychology
class that my high school had.
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So I leaned into the more
of the analytics route.
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My intention was to go federal.
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And I really- ... I was fighting between
being a clinical psychologist, who really
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wanted to work with people at the time.
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So this is the 9/11 era.
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And this is all culminating
at the same time.
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And so I thought, I really want to
work somewhere like Guantanamo Bay."
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That's what I wanna do.
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I wanna work with, terrorists,
and I wanna understand things.
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And so that's where it became like
this melding of- criminal behavioral
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analysis and the psychology side of
things, abnormal to clinical psych.
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And I luckily, when I started college,
I was actually going to be a psychology
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major because I knew there's really not
much you can do with a criminal justice
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degree, and that's still true today.
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And so, and I say that as somebody
who was an academic advisor
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at a university at one point.
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There's not much that you can do
with just a straight criminal justice
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degree in the criminal justice
field, particularly at the time.
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So I was a psych major and I had a s-
a criminal justice minor at the time,
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and I had a professor who during my
first semester, he was like, "Hey,
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do you know what a crim-" At the
time they were just crime analysts.
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And he was like, "Do you know
what a crime analyst is compared
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to an intelligence analyst?" And
I was like, "Well, guess, maybe.
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Really, I don't know." It's like
that I don't wanna tell you no, I
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don't know what you're talking about.
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Yeah.
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And he was like, well, he was a
retired officer, and he, was doing
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research and he said, "I really need
somebody to do the analytical side of
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things." And so we ended up partnering.
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I was just getting the data side
of information from some local
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agencies, which at the time was
Tomball Police Department, and through
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whoever, whatever contact he had.
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And so that's really where the
crime analysis side of things came.
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At the same time, I was planning, I'm
still going to school more or less for
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the- Yeah ... criminal psychology aspect
of things that I was interested in.
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And as it progressed over time and I was
exposed to more professors, I ended up
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dual degreeing and all of that, is when
I really got interested in the you can do
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intelligence analysis in law enforcement
and not have to be basically, and it's
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not basically, it's very pointedly.
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I had a professor he has
a doctorate obviously.
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And he was Steve Young, his name.
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He has passed.
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He was with the CIA.
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... You can look him up.
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He's a great guy.
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He was an asset handler.
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And he was like: Look, you can do
what you want to do and not have to
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get a clinical psychology degree.
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He was like: If you go get a clinical
psychology degree with the route I
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was on, he was like: You're not gonna
be able to do a lot of the things
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that you want to do because of the
American Psychological Association
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and the credentials that you'll have.
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You will be limited.
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What you're thinking you're going to be
able to do, you're not gonna be able to do
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from an ethics standpoint, from, X, Y, Z.
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And I had a couple of clinical
psychology professors, Dr. Christopher
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Wilson, who was the... Dr. Steve
Young was the department chair for
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my master's program, and then Dr.
Christopher Wilson was the department
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chair for the College of Humanities.
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I believe this was the sum all 'cause
again, I was getting a psychology degree.
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And he also talked to me.
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He was trying to pull me to the
quote unquote "dark side." Keep
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going to the psychology side.
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Keep going to- And so I sat down
with him and I'm like: Realistically,
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like this is what I wanted to do.
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I never thought in a million years
I would be a crime analyst working
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with data because I genuinely...
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I'm good at statistics- ... but
I don't like them.
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I really don't like them.
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And so I never in a million years thought
I'd be working with data, but here I am.
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And it was between the two of them
tag teaming me that said, with
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what you wanna do, you could go
the clinical psychology route.
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However, with what you're wanting to
do, again, you're not gonna be able
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to do what you think you're going
to be able to do because of ethics,
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because of all of these things that
happen when you become a clinician."
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And I was like, "You know what?
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I don't... That's not what I wanna do.
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I wanna dig.
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I wanna..."
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There's certain things that I wanna
poke and pry and do all of that,
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and that's really how it became.
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I went from criminal behavior
psychology really into the crime
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analysis with Dr. Becker and to both
of them and many other professors,
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it wasn't just the two of them, that
essentially said, "Let's pull you back
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and forth, and then make a decision."
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I made a decision I think two weeks
before graduate school s- I had to
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have my deadline, my answer in on which
program I was going to accept or go
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into because I'd already been accepted.
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It was a matter of doing it.
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Yeah.
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Then I had another professor at the time
who was a department chair who I loved Dr.
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Patrick Lewis.
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He went to Duke and he was trying
to pull me into... 'Cause I was also
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interested in forensic anthropology,
and I'm naturally inclined for some
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reason towards biology, and I took
pre-med classes as my science courses.
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I had to go get approval from
department chairs to do all of this.
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Yeah.
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And so it was like getting pulled in
all these directions and it honestly
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was like a split second decision of I
know I love science, but I don't wanna
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do this all the time, so let's take the
forensic anthropology off the table.
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The criminal psychology side of that's
very interesting, but I don't want to be
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strapped with certain things that I can't
do strictly out of a, and I understand it,
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out of an ethical standpoint of- of things
you can and can't do, can and can't say.
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And then intelligence was just there.
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And as a byproduct in today's
world, when I started this in '06,
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crime analysis and intelligence
analysis were two different worlds.
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. You had crime analysts, which was very
rare, especially in local law enforcement,
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or what I would consider very rare, to,
we had that shift towards intelligence
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because of 9/11, and then now you have
crime analysts who should be able to
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do intelligence analysis function,
and intelligence analysts who should
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be able, depending on where they're
at, to do crime analysis function.
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So it, that's... It all started from
wanting to be a cop to all of these,
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these fluid movements through professors
and programs and realizing what once
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was is no longer what it is now.
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And, you really need
to be able to do both.
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But h- honestly, at the end of the
day, I love numbers and I love data.
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I'm interested in it.
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But Lord, I hate cleaning it and
making it doing all of those things.
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I would rather just do my intel.
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But oftentimes because I'm such
a advocate for intelligence-led
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policing, you need the data to be
able to tell you where to focus at.
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And so that's that's the only re-
honestly, that's the only reason I work
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with data, is because I need it to be able
to direct my function in intelligence.
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That's it.
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It's, it,
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it's pretty impressive 'cause you, it
sounds like you were an academic rock
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star in a way with these different
professors trying to get you to
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come on their side of the fence.
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Actually, my brain was studied in college.
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Yeah.
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I'm not joking.
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They tag-teamed this is...
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Now, this was between Patrick Lewis
Dr. Lewis, and then Dr. Wilson.
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So we figured out, I'm pretty
certain I'm actually dyslexic.
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They didn't figure it out until
I was about first grade, and they
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realized- ... I had eidetic memory, so
what we would call photographic memory.
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Oh, okay.
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And it followed me pretty substantially
all the way through college.
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That's how I ended up in the
pre-med courses for science, is
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because they could not believe that
I was a tutor at the time also.
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I was a preferred tutor from professors
from the university because I
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could break down complex material.
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It's just the way my brain works.
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Nice
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It was, yeah, it was interesting,
but they actually did different s-
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studies on me and stuff like that and
it, because they couldn't understand
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how I could recall certain things.
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And I'm like, "I just, it fries
into my brain." I don't know.
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Huh.
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I know that- It's
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interesting that it's
considered a dyslexia.
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I... So they think what it was, is
it was compensation for dyslexia.
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Okay.
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And that was, if you remember back in
the '80s I don't know how, I know kids
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don't do it quite the same now because I
have a 21-year-old, and her academia was
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different than mine in primary school.
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But where you would get
your spelling list, right?
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And you had to learn those words.
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Yeah.
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What they figured out with me is
whenever the teacher would change the
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order of the words during the test,
I would spell the words correctly
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But not the word she asked for.
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I could imprint that exact list on
my paper as I had studied it Wow And
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so that's really where it started,
and they s- they realized, "Oh
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she's spelling the words correctly.
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That's just not the word we asked for." I
was just verbatim putting it down. And so
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then they started doing additional testing
on me, and they're like she's got eidetic
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memory. She's using photographic memory
essentially to just imprint whatever
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it is that she's observed onto paper."
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Yeah.
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And so it was interesting.
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Then they started doing it with images
to see how quickly I could recall an
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image in the short amount of time that I
saw that image, and it was fascinating.
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It was not fascinating at the time.
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It was interesting as I got older to
learn all these things about myself,
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that I was like, "Oh that's fascinating."
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I almost got held back three different
grade levels because They didn't really
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know, understand what was happening.
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Yeah.
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00:11:29,150 --> 00:11:32,600
And so I had to go through IQ testing
and all the testings for them to
233
00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:36,370
figure out that she's, her brain
is compensating in a different way.
234
00:11:36,580 --> 00:11:36,830
Yeah.
235
00:11:37,010 --> 00:11:41,070
Well, and then back then, not being
able to follow directions was a
236
00:11:41,070 --> 00:11:42,710
reason to h- to hold you back.
237
00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:43,390
Yes.
238
00:11:43,530 --> 00:11:44,470
And so that was, yeah.
239
00:11:44,470 --> 00:11:46,970
They didn't know if I had the
comprehension, but then when they sent me
240
00:11:46,970 --> 00:11:51,650
to the testing, they're like, "She's like
genius level- "... but we don't understand
241
00:11:51,650 --> 00:11:54,730
what's happening." So, so essentially
what I, my understanding is they chopped
242
00:11:54,730 --> 00:11:59,090
it up to I was more than likely dyslexic,
and that my brain was just compensating
243
00:11:59,090 --> 00:12:03,790
by learning to do what the common person
calls photographic memory, eidetic memory.
244
00:12:03,790 --> 00:12:06,210
It was just copying and
pasting what it saw.
245
00:12:06,380 --> 00:12:07,190
Which it helped me.
246
00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:08,600
It helped me greatly in college.
247
00:12:08,660 --> 00:12:10,680
I was a straight A student.
248
00:12:10,680 --> 00:12:14,140
I was valedictorian in undergrad-
Nice ... for both degrees, but . I
249
00:12:14,140 --> 00:12:15,340
had to study, don't get me wrong.
250
00:12:15,340 --> 00:12:16,110
It wasn't that easy.
251
00:12:16,110 --> 00:12:20,650
It wasn't just as simple as it was as a
kid, but that did play a substantial part
252
00:12:20,650 --> 00:12:23,300
in it, is that I have phenomenal recall-
253
00:12:23,460 --> 00:12:23,610
Now
254
00:12:23,610 --> 00:12:24,210
does
255
00:12:24,210 --> 00:12:24,920
it last-
256
00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:25,270
to this day.
257
00:12:25,270 --> 00:12:26,810
Does it last over time?
258
00:12:26,810 --> 00:12:30,090
Do you still remember
stuff l- ... years later?
259
00:12:30,490 --> 00:12:34,520
I... The funniest thing is, so my nickname
was Webster for a long time- ... just
260
00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:37,820
as the walking dictionary 'cause I know
random things that I pick up- ... along
261
00:12:37,820 --> 00:12:39,890
the way, and it's not consistent.
262
00:12:40,150 --> 00:12:44,630
It's just something, like to this day,
I will always remember that apoptosis
263
00:12:44,630 --> 00:12:48,200
is programmed cell death that happens
between fingers and toes as one of the
264
00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:50,410
primary examples on a developing fetus.
265
00:12:50,460 --> 00:12:53,520
There are certain things that
stand out, and I don't know why.
266
00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:58,305
I- And it's very fascinating to me
because- It's nothing of importance.
267
00:12:58,355 --> 00:13:02,325
There are things that I wish I could
remember, and I'm like, "I don't remember
268
00:13:02,325 --> 00:13:05,195
that," but I remember what apoptosis is.
269
00:13:05,195 --> 00:13:05,315
Yeah.
270
00:13:07,165 --> 00:13:08,965
I, I- Wow ... remember
certain other things.
271
00:13:08,965 --> 00:13:09,945
I, I don't know.
272
00:13:10,245 --> 00:13:12,355
It's very bizarre to me what
sticks and what doesn't.
273
00:13:12,515 --> 00:13:18,425
In that regard I can relate to you,
'cause I feel that I remember odd stuff,
274
00:13:18,425 --> 00:13:21,965
and then don't remember other things
that I think I should remember, so.
275
00:13:22,045 --> 00:13:22,225
Yeah.
276
00:13:22,435 --> 00:13:25,475
But all well, no that's
s- that's fascinating.
277
00:13:25,475 --> 00:13:28,535
I- ... we could've had several
conversations over our lifetime
278
00:13:28,535 --> 00:13:31,975
that I not would not know that
about you, so that's fascinating.
279
00:13:32,145 --> 00:13:35,845
So all right, so let's get
into graduate school then.
280
00:13:35,945 --> 00:13:39,225
What was the decision to go to graduate
school in the first place, right?
281
00:13:39,225 --> 00:13:42,295
In s- in lieu of just going out
there and trying to find a job.
282
00:13:42,465 --> 00:13:47,195
So the big thing was is when you take
into consideration this was the 9/11 era-
283
00:13:47,495 --> 00:13:52,135
...
And then our generation was told, "You
go to college or you go to the military.
284
00:13:52,275 --> 00:13:56,295
That's what you do." This wasn't really
a time where the trades were pushed
285
00:13:56,295 --> 00:14:00,895
heavily because we're coming out of, my,
my parents' generation was trade-based.
286
00:14:00,955 --> 00:14:01,635
That's what you did.
287
00:14:01,635 --> 00:14:06,885
So we're into the you go to college
or you go into the military, and I
288
00:14:06,885 --> 00:14:10,735
definitely did not want to go into
the military for a variety of reasons.
289
00:14:10,925 --> 00:14:15,265
Again, we're keeping in fact that I would
have my butt handed to me if I were ever
290
00:14:15,265 --> 00:14:17,825
in a position... So let's take that.
291
00:14:18,215 --> 00:14:22,625
But again, I was just very interested
in this, the psychology route of things
292
00:14:22,725 --> 00:14:26,625
the, human behavior, criminal analysis,
and so I went the college route.
293
00:14:26,725 --> 00:14:31,375
And by the time this is
happening I'm graduating and
294
00:14:31,375 --> 00:14:32,995
this is when the recession hits.
295
00:14:33,225 --> 00:14:36,335
And I'm like, "You have to make a
decision, and you have to make a
296
00:14:36,335 --> 00:14:39,435
decision quickly." And I had a child.
297
00:14:39,565 --> 00:14:43,395
So I had my daughter when I was
19, and I was like, You have
298
00:14:43,395 --> 00:14:44,775
a child in the middle of this.
299
00:14:45,315 --> 00:14:49,475
What was once acceptable with a bachelor's
degree, , is no longer acceptable.
300
00:14:49,905 --> 00:14:53,265
You need a master's degree
because- ... so much had changed between
301
00:14:53,265 --> 00:14:55,835
graduation to the recession hitting.
302
00:14:56,465 --> 00:15:00,495
And so I was like, all right, we're gonna
go ahead and just do graduate school now.
303
00:15:00,525 --> 00:15:02,425
I-- 'cause at one point I was
like, I'm gonna put it off.
304
00:15:02,425 --> 00:15:03,975
I'm gonna go ahead and go into the field.
305
00:15:04,045 --> 00:15:06,775
I had already had a strong
analytics background at this point.
306
00:15:07,135 --> 00:15:09,895
All through undergrad, I was
working as an undergraduate research
307
00:15:09,895 --> 00:15:14,405
assistant in both the, in psychology
specifically and criminology.
308
00:15:14,405 --> 00:15:17,385
I was working with professors,
helping with research analysis.
309
00:15:18,125 --> 00:15:19,705
Which includes crime analysis, right?
310
00:15:19,735 --> 00:15:22,085
And so I thought, just go into the field.
311
00:15:22,355 --> 00:15:23,745
It's starting to really kick off.
312
00:15:23,745 --> 00:15:25,125
Intelligence is a big thing.
313
00:15:25,755 --> 00:15:31,145
And I don't remember who it was, but
somebody, it was probably my mother, to be
314
00:15:31,145 --> 00:15:36,305
honest- ... was like, "Look, if you don't
go to graduate school now, you're not
315
00:15:36,305 --> 00:15:40,544
going to. You're gonna fall into the lull
of going to work and all of these things."
316
00:15:40,585 --> 00:15:44,244
And I was already working, but
she was like you're really gonna
317
00:15:44,244 --> 00:15:46,824
progress that way." And I was working
at the university at this point.
318
00:15:46,824 --> 00:15:48,814
Again, I was doing the academic tutoring.
319
00:15:49,104 --> 00:15:50,835
I was tutoring for over 20 classes.
320
00:15:50,885 --> 00:15:53,895
... I was fine with that, and she
was like, "You can continue this.
321
00:15:53,895 --> 00:15:56,605
You can even get a job on campus
and go to graduate school.
322
00:15:56,775 --> 00:16:00,135
Go, or you're going to regret it because
you're not gonna go if you take off."
323
00:16:00,535 --> 00:16:05,655
And I'm like, "Okay." So that's really
what prompted it was the economy and
324
00:16:06,150 --> 00:16:08,100
The fact that so much had changed.
325
00:16:08,370 --> 00:16:10,590
We're coming out of my
parents' generation, you just
326
00:16:10,590 --> 00:16:12,040
needed a high school diploma.
327
00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:12,130
Yeah.
328
00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:14,730
An associate's wasn't
even necessarily a thing.
329
00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:19,370
To my generation was you need not only an
associate's, you need a bachelor's degree.
330
00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:19,460
Yeah.
331
00:16:19,810 --> 00:16:24,060
To now all of a sudden we're four years
later and you need a master's degree.
332
00:16:24,590 --> 00:16:24,760
Yeah.
333
00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:30,250
And because I dual degreed, my undergrad
took me five years, and so it was
334
00:16:30,250 --> 00:16:32,230
like, okay, you gotta make a decision.
335
00:16:32,230 --> 00:16:35,580
They're saying graduate degrees
are what you need right now, and
336
00:16:35,660 --> 00:16:37,250
that's really what it came down to.
337
00:16:37,310 --> 00:16:40,350
...
I was actually gonna do my PhD and
then I was like, "No, we're not doing
338
00:16:40,350 --> 00:16:44,720
this." We're not doing this 'cause
that's really where the clinical psych
339
00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:49,660
program came into play, is that I
didn't wanna be a school psychologist.
340
00:16:49,660 --> 00:16:50,970
There's nothing wrong with that.
341
00:16:51,060 --> 00:16:53,140
That's not what I wanted
to go to school for.
342
00:16:53,370 --> 00:16:58,530
And so you get into their... It's
essentially like a fast-track PhD.
343
00:16:58,530 --> 00:17:00,230
So you do your grad as a whole.
344
00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:05,330
It's not master's and a PhD. And so
there was a lot that went into that.
345
00:17:05,390 --> 00:17:08,590
And then when I went the security
studies route and I thought about
346
00:17:08,690 --> 00:17:12,500
I had a lot of people pushing me to
either go to law school the DA and the
347
00:17:12,500 --> 00:17:17,240
DA's wife the assistant DA was Kelly
Weeks, was one of the professors,
348
00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:18,830
and she was pushing really hard.
349
00:17:19,620 --> 00:17:22,700
And a lot of people didn't know that
I had a child because of my grades
350
00:17:22,700 --> 00:17:25,850
and because I was so focused on school
and then when she found out I had a
351
00:17:25,850 --> 00:17:27,930
child she was like, "Oh yeah, don't
do that." She's "You're not gonna
352
00:17:27,930 --> 00:17:29,570
survive graduate school with a child.
353
00:17:29,570 --> 00:17:31,090
You gotta choose the kid or the school."
354
00:17:31,090 --> 00:17:35,520
And I was like, "Well, there's no
way. That's not a choice." And so,
355
00:17:35,850 --> 00:17:39,910
that's really what it came down
to was economy and the shift in
356
00:17:39,910 --> 00:17:44,050
perception of a bachelor's degree was
no longer gonna cut it in this field.
357
00:17:44,290 --> 00:17:46,950
And it's bizarre to me because it
seems like there's a lot of people
358
00:17:46,950 --> 00:17:52,190
who are finding, that I'm meeting in
this field who have master's degrees
359
00:17:52,190 --> 00:17:53,360
who are all saying the same thing.
360
00:17:53,450 --> 00:17:58,710
I only got it not necessarily because
I needed it at the time in terms
361
00:17:58,710 --> 00:18:03,620
of the field specific, but just
the shift in the economy was you
362
00:18:03,620 --> 00:18:06,640
need to go get a master's because a
bachelor's is no longer sufficient.
363
00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:07,330
Yeah.
364
00:18:07,330 --> 00:18:12,170
And it's fascinating the mindset
'cause I share the same mindset that
365
00:18:12,170 --> 00:18:17,120
your mother had in that if you don't
do it now, you're not going to do it.
366
00:18:17,270 --> 00:18:22,030
And which seems probably a little
silly today because, people of
367
00:18:22,030 --> 00:18:23,800
all ages are getting degrees.
368
00:18:23,980 --> 00:18:29,470
But there was this notion of Just get
your education out of the way and then-
369
00:18:29,855 --> 00:18:31,935
And then focus on the profession later.
370
00:18:31,935 --> 00:18:35,415
I did something similar where I
ended up - staying around one extra
371
00:18:35,415 --> 00:18:37,005
year to get a master's degree.
372
00:18:37,215 --> 00:18:37,425
Yeah.
373
00:18:37,475 --> 00:18:41,615
And so it was the same mindset
as well, if, it's either now
374
00:18:41,615 --> 00:18:43,515
or never type of mentality.
375
00:18:43,685 --> 00:18:44,335
And it's funny.
376
00:18:44,335 --> 00:18:47,995
When you look at it, 'cause again, now
being older you're like, "I could do
377
00:18:48,065 --> 00:18:53,155
this. What was I thinking?" But that was
really the mindset, was you do it now.
378
00:18:53,155 --> 00:18:55,245
If you take off, you're not gonna go back.
379
00:18:55,335 --> 00:18:56,735
It's gonna be more difficult.
380
00:18:56,735 --> 00:18:58,585
It's, you're already
in the swing of things.
381
00:18:58,585 --> 00:19:00,515
And so I did it.
382
00:19:00,845 --> 00:19:01,965
... I did in fact.
383
00:19:02,175 --> 00:19:03,675
I survived grad school.
384
00:19:04,745 --> 00:19:08,105
Well let's let's talk about your
graduate internship, 'cause this
385
00:19:08,105 --> 00:19:11,435
is fascinating, and we got a
fascinating story that came out of it.
386
00:19:11,655 --> 00:19:12,535
Oh, that's a lot.
387
00:19:12,835 --> 00:19:13,435
Yes.
388
00:19:13,515 --> 00:19:17,695
So I was with the Texas Office of
the Inspector General, so it's the
389
00:19:17,695 --> 00:19:22,785
OIG, and they worked, they were the
officers, or are the officers, state
390
00:19:22,785 --> 00:19:25,205
officers that essentially investigate.
391
00:19:25,235 --> 00:19:31,035
They do intelligence and law enforcement
investigations, mostly on corrections
392
00:19:31,035 --> 00:19:33,735
officers who are involved in things
they should not be involved in- like
393
00:19:33,735 --> 00:19:37,655
bringing drugs and cell phones and
stuff like that into the prisons.
394
00:19:37,655 --> 00:19:41,575
They also deal with things like
outcries from inmates who state
395
00:19:41,575 --> 00:19:45,015
that they've been abused physically,
sexually, stuff like that.
396
00:19:45,015 --> 00:19:46,885
So it was interesting.
397
00:19:47,235 --> 00:19:51,875
I ended up, the partner that I was
teamed up with, he and I to this
398
00:19:51,875 --> 00:19:53,745
day, he's one of my best friends.
399
00:19:53,795 --> 00:19:54,965
He's like a brother to me.
400
00:19:55,155 --> 00:19:56,995
So that's a long-standing relationship.
401
00:19:56,995 --> 00:19:59,045
We've, it's been, what year are we in?
402
00:19:59,045 --> 00:20:00,685
What are we in, 14 years?
403
00:20:00,915 --> 00:20:04,525
Something like that since this ha- I'd
spend, I, it, I'm losing all the time.
404
00:20:04,525 --> 00:20:08,584
Everything says, 14 years I developed
this friendship and however.
405
00:20:10,355 --> 00:20:10,995
However
406
00:20:11,574 --> 00:20:15,354
They wanted me to come work for them, and
I still would've have got, had to be an
407
00:20:15,354 --> 00:20:19,094
officer and all of that, or I could've
gone into the intelligence analyst side.
408
00:20:19,244 --> 00:20:22,104
But it was more the investigations
that I was interested in- ... because
409
00:20:22,104 --> 00:20:27,234
a lot of the analysts spoke Spanish,
and I don't speak Spanish and was not
410
00:20:27,234 --> 00:20:33,014
interested in learning Spanish, nor was I
interested in translating and all of that.
411
00:20:33,124 --> 00:20:37,745
So I, as I'm sure I've shared, I did
not like the smell of prisons and
412
00:20:37,745 --> 00:20:39,255
I was like- ... this is not for me.
413
00:20:39,615 --> 00:20:42,235
Being constantly, 'cause as you
know in a prison, when there's
414
00:20:42,295 --> 00:20:43,935
questions, people get strip-searched.
415
00:20:44,605 --> 00:20:44,715
Yeah.
416
00:20:44,715 --> 00:20:50,515
So I have I saw more than my fair
share of nude men and- ... the smell,
417
00:20:50,585 --> 00:20:52,605
and I was like, this is not for me."
418
00:20:52,865 --> 00:20:52,925
Yeah.
419
00:20:52,925 --> 00:20:53,185
No.
420
00:20:53,655 --> 00:20:53,755
Yeah.
421
00:20:53,755 --> 00:20:56,285
There's more power to those that
do it, but that's not for me
422
00:20:56,830 --> 00:20:57,170
Yeah.
423
00:20:57,300 --> 00:21:03,770
I've talked on this show many a times
of, like, how it sometimes the internship
424
00:21:03,940 --> 00:21:05,790
introduces you to what you don't wanna do-
425
00:21:06,300 --> 00:21:06,770
Yes
426
00:21:06,770 --> 00:21:08,080
...
instead of what you do wanna do.
427
00:21:08,290 --> 00:21:08,580
Yeah.
428
00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:10,780
And it was just a matter of where I was.
429
00:21:10,870 --> 00:21:11,840
I was in Huntsville.
430
00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:16,540
That's where Sam Houston State is,
and that's where the, headquarters
431
00:21:16,540 --> 00:21:19,160
for the Texas Corrections is.
432
00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:21,390
And it was just, it was a lot of things.
433
00:21:21,390 --> 00:21:22,550
And I loved the people.
434
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:26,730
It wasn't a problem, like Jason, who
I- he's still like a brother to me.
435
00:21:27,450 --> 00:21:29,530
It was not the relationships.
436
00:21:29,790 --> 00:21:33,030
It was just strictly I don't
wanna work in a prison.
437
00:21:33,070 --> 00:21:36,320
I don't... The smell is
permanently fried into my
438
00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:38,210
brain, ... that will never go away.
439
00:21:38,210 --> 00:21:42,570
To this day, I will sometimes get occa-
interestingly, off of food trucks.
440
00:21:43,360 --> 00:21:46,830
There, I will occasionally smell it and
I'm like, "That smells like a prison.
441
00:21:46,990 --> 00:21:50,740
I'm not eating out of that food truck."
I don't know what's happening in there.
442
00:21:51,100 --> 00:21:54,600
Oh ... but yeah, it was a good experience,
and I always tell people, "If you can
443
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:56,780
do internships, do an internship." Yes.
444
00:21:56,780 --> 00:22:01,970
Because it does, it exposes you to
what you may want to do, what you
445
00:22:01,970 --> 00:22:03,990
know you end up you don't want to do.
446
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:09,130
It's a great way to just learn, even
if you don't end up staying with that
447
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:13,680
agency or- office or, whoever it is
that you're with in whatever capacity.
448
00:22:14,220 --> 00:22:15,350
It's a learning opportunity.
449
00:22:15,350 --> 00:22:20,110
And you never know, to this day,
not only have Jason and I maintained
450
00:22:20,390 --> 00:22:23,590
a great friendship, like I said,
he's honestly like a brother to me.
451
00:22:23,590 --> 00:22:24,630
That's how close we are.
452
00:22:25,410 --> 00:22:29,740
But there are several other
people who, from that internship,
453
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:33,420
I still have communication
with, still reach out to- Yeah
454
00:22:33,470 --> 00:22:35,030
and off of an internship.
455
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:35,540
Yeah.
456
00:22:35,710 --> 00:22:39,090
A- and so it's like those six
months of your life, you never
457
00:22:39,090 --> 00:22:40,310
know the impact that it could have.
458
00:22:40,610 --> 00:22:41,090
Absolutely.
459
00:22:41,350 --> 00:22:41,600
All right.
460
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:44,730
Well, hey, though this
leads into an analyst job.
461
00:22:44,730 --> 00:22:50,000
So you graduate, you get your
master's, and then you actually
462
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,240
head out of state to South Carolina.
463
00:22:53,450 --> 00:22:54,230
I did.
464
00:22:54,620 --> 00:22:57,720
I- people ask me, they're like, "Why'd
you go to South Carolina?" The honest
465
00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:02,390
answer to that is My sister moved,
and so I wanted to be closer to her.
466
00:23:02,390 --> 00:23:05,230
She had left the Plano area here in Texas.
467
00:23:05,230 --> 00:23:08,640
And so she went out there, and I
was looking for analyst positions,
468
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:11,620
and somebody had said to me, I
don't remember who it was, one of my
469
00:23:11,620 --> 00:23:15,230
professors or somebody, 'cause again,
I kept really close communication with
470
00:23:15,230 --> 00:23:21,850
people, were like, "Hey, there is a
position that's opening up that's in
471
00:23:21,850 --> 00:23:28,290
South Carolina, and they have a very
disproportionately large crime rate."
472
00:23:29,020 --> 00:23:30,000
And that's my jam.
473
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:33,340
And I was like, "Yeah, but I want, really
wanna do intelligence. I don't wanna do
474
00:23:33,340 --> 00:23:36,130
just, what I call the data monkey," right?
475
00:23:36,130 --> 00:23:37,110
We're the number monkeys.
476
00:23:37,380 --> 00:23:37,470
Yeah.
477
00:23:37,510 --> 00:23:41,520
So I was like, "I don't wanna just do
that, and it's a sheriff's office, and I
478
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:45,740
don't know." And eventually I w- I went
out there, I went ahead and applied.
479
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:47,190
It was close to my sister.
480
00:23:47,540 --> 00:23:48,280
I went out there.
481
00:23:48,550 --> 00:23:49,780
They were great people.
482
00:23:49,850 --> 00:23:52,230
I still- ... to this day
they're family to me.
483
00:23:52,340 --> 00:23:55,960
Sheriff Fail, Barry Fail, he's
still the sheriff to this day, and
484
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,860
that was- Wow ... I don't know, t-
14 years ago, something like that.
485
00:23:58,860 --> 00:23:59,300
Yeah.
486
00:23:59,390 --> 00:24:01,550
And they're good people.
487
00:24:01,740 --> 00:24:04,310
I, they're- Yeah ... I have
nothing bad that I can say
488
00:24:04,310 --> 00:24:05,790
about that sheriff's department.
489
00:24:05,860 --> 00:24:07,880
I made really good
relationships out there.
490
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:12,330
They became like family, and I found
it absolutely fascinating because they
491
00:24:12,330 --> 00:24:14,700
did have a relatively high crime rate.
492
00:24:14,700 --> 00:24:16,400
I'm like, "Why? Why?" Yeah.
493
00:24:17,100 --> 00:24:19,970
"Why is this county?" And I think
it's, there was a sum total of
494
00:24:19,970 --> 00:24:23,360
things that I learned as an analyst
because again, that inquisitive mind
495
00:24:23,360 --> 00:24:28,240
and having done research, and we're
talking about, criminological theory
496
00:24:28,590 --> 00:24:30,360
and policing models that I did- Yeah
497
00:24:30,360 --> 00:24:34,380
all through undergrad and graduate
school, 'cause at the same time I
498
00:24:34,410 --> 00:24:36,189
am working as an academic advisor.
499
00:24:36,189 --> 00:24:38,700
I'm doing undergraduate then
graduate research with these people.
500
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:44,069
So I have a strong grasp of both
criminal theory and policing models.
501
00:24:44,069 --> 00:24:47,649
And so when I got out there,
it was like, oh, you're...
502
00:24:47,909 --> 00:24:52,169
This county is on the North
Carolina/South Carolina border.
503
00:24:52,519 --> 00:24:55,959
There are major thoroughways-
Yeah ... that are going straight
504
00:24:55,959 --> 00:24:57,579
from Florida all the way up.
505
00:24:57,719 --> 00:25:00,349
So you have a trafficking area.
506
00:25:00,349 --> 00:25:04,299
You have easily not only jumping
jurisdictional lines, but state lines.
507
00:25:04,350 --> 00:25:08,460
It, there was a variety of things that
came in from both, again the criminal
508
00:25:08,460 --> 00:25:13,560
theory and then looking at the police
model and what they were trying to do that
509
00:25:13,620 --> 00:25:16,600
and it's actually them that made me fall
in love with intelligence-led policing
510
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:21,650
because they were doing CompStat and I
was trained with NYPD's traditional model.
511
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:26,200
And so it was interesting to be
able to take that and do something
512
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:27,460
with it, and they were open to it.
513
00:25:27,460 --> 00:25:30,355
They were like, "Yeah, whatever you
wanna do." And so I was like Awesome.
514
00:25:30,755 --> 00:25:31,565
Watch this.
515
00:25:31,595 --> 00:25:31,655
Yeah.
516
00:25:31,865 --> 00:25:32,775
And we had fun.
517
00:25:32,805 --> 00:25:34,875
It, like I said, I have nothing bad.
518
00:25:34,875 --> 00:25:38,805
It's the Lancaster County Sheriff's
Office, and to this day I still keep
519
00:25:38,805 --> 00:25:41,175
in contact with a few of them and, Nice
520
00:25:41,475 --> 00:25:42,135
they're good people.
521
00:25:42,455 --> 00:25:42,905
They really are.
522
00:25:42,905 --> 00:25:42,985
And
523
00:25:43,205 --> 00:25:47,195
yeah it's funny is I don't know
where Lancaster is, but as you were
524
00:25:47,195 --> 00:25:50,765
just describing it, I was like,
I bet you there's a major highway
525
00:25:50,765 --> 00:25:52,655
going right straight through it-
526
00:25:52,765 --> 00:25:52,885
Yep
527
00:25:53,165 --> 00:25:54,395
...
North, South.
528
00:25:54,745 --> 00:25:57,295
It was a very, yeah, it
was a very large area.
529
00:25:57,335 --> 00:26:00,075
Obviously it's the sheriff's, it's
county, so you've got different
530
00:26:00,075 --> 00:26:01,975
municipalities within that area.
531
00:26:02,465 --> 00:26:07,535
It was an area that used to be, back
in the day, it was a manufacturing
532
00:26:07,585 --> 00:26:10,735
area, and so they had a lot of
manufacturing and then, different
533
00:26:10,735 --> 00:26:12,575
things happened through the decades.
534
00:26:12,575 --> 00:26:18,735
And so, i- poverty ended up taking hold in
a lot of areas and, they just, they lost
535
00:26:18,735 --> 00:26:20,925
their manufacturing power that they had.
536
00:26:21,035 --> 00:26:24,765
And- ... so you had a lot of
people who were u- unfortunately
537
00:26:24,765 --> 00:26:28,535
affected by that and it's just,
yeah, there was a lot of factors.
538
00:26:28,565 --> 00:26:32,635
It was really interesting to go into
this, somebody saying, "Hey, you
539
00:26:32,635 --> 00:26:35,795
really should look at this. I think
that it would pique your interest,"
540
00:26:35,795 --> 00:26:37,365
because I'm always asking why.
541
00:26:37,445 --> 00:26:41,455
I'm like, "There's a reason why."
And I had a blast out there.
542
00:26:41,725 --> 00:26:42,715
They're really good people.
543
00:26:42,775 --> 00:26:44,535
It was a really great agency to work for.
544
00:26:44,665 --> 00:26:45,285
I miss them.
545
00:26:52,095 --> 00:26:56,705
This is Robert Aboumitri, a
retired analyst with the RCMP.
546
00:26:57,035 --> 00:27:01,615
If I have an advice for analyst, one
advice, , tell the story of the data.
547
00:27:01,645 --> 00:27:06,985
Do not tell the story of somebody who
wants a story to be told, even if it's
548
00:27:06,985 --> 00:27:11,885
your boss, even if it's the chief of
police and they tell you to show something
549
00:27:11,885 --> 00:27:14,195
and as a result of your analysis.
550
00:27:14,195 --> 00:27:14,785
Do not.
551
00:27:15,445 --> 00:27:17,815
Stay true to what's in front of you.
552
00:27:18,375 --> 00:27:23,765
Let the data, , speak to you, and
you be the voice of that data.
553
00:27:24,495 --> 00:27:25,775
My name is Megan Cruz.
554
00:27:25,915 --> 00:27:29,485
, I'm the crime analysis supervisor
at Richmond Police, and my public
555
00:27:29,485 --> 00:27:35,345
service announcement is knowing how
much, , the data and in- the information
556
00:27:35,345 --> 00:27:39,945
that crime analysts touch, , applies
to everything a department does.
557
00:27:40,285 --> 00:27:45,545
Everything from media responses
to patrol allocation to solving
558
00:27:45,545 --> 00:27:51,735
crimes to, , overtime allocation,
that commanders really should be
559
00:27:52,095 --> 00:27:56,135
tapping their crime analysts before
they make any kind of decisions.
560
00:27:56,135 --> 00:27:59,105
Everything should be
evidence-based and data-driven.
561
00:28:00,015 --> 00:28:01,625
Hello, my name is Greg Thomas.
562
00:28:01,715 --> 00:28:06,195
One phrase that annoys me that
analysts say is that they say that...
563
00:28:06,495 --> 00:28:10,755
When they introduce themselves, they
say, "I am just an analyst." You should
564
00:28:10,755 --> 00:28:14,985
be proud of your profession and the
field , and the job that you do, and
565
00:28:14,985 --> 00:28:17,075
don't say you're just an analyst.
566
00:28:22,123 --> 00:28:22,464
All right.
567
00:28:22,464 --> 00:28:26,974
Well, this brings us to the analyst
badge story, one of a couple that
568
00:28:26,974 --> 00:28:28,764
you're gonna share with us today.
569
00:28:29,044 --> 00:28:31,914
And for those that may be new to
the show, the analyst badge story
570
00:28:31,914 --> 00:28:35,034
is the career-defining case or
project that an analyst works.
571
00:28:35,364 --> 00:28:39,134
So you, you mentioned the CompStat and
you mentioned getting into the data.
572
00:28:39,184 --> 00:28:42,764
This deals with some predictive
analysis that you came up with.
573
00:28:42,894 --> 00:28:43,354
Yes.
574
00:28:43,384 --> 00:28:48,294
So anybody who's in the field should
know who Dr. Rossmo is, Kim Rossmo.
575
00:28:48,294 --> 00:28:48,384
Yes.
576
00:28:48,414 --> 00:28:50,274
He does geographic profiling.
577
00:28:50,404 --> 00:28:55,814
I am always, again, I strongly
believe that we can predict with
578
00:28:55,814 --> 00:29:00,864
relative accuracy, and I d- I know
AI is, for a lot of people, they're
579
00:29:00,864 --> 00:29:02,434
like, "Oh, AI's gonna take our job."
580
00:29:02,474 --> 00:29:06,844
But the reality is AI has been around
for quite some time, just in, it
581
00:29:06,844 --> 00:29:09,844
wasn't necessarily at our fingertips
in the way that we're utilizing it now.
582
00:29:09,844 --> 00:29:12,194
But when you talk about
predictive modeling through
583
00:29:12,194 --> 00:29:14,384
GIS and stuff like that was AI.
584
00:29:14,454 --> 00:29:17,624
It was some form of artificial
intelligence that's doing
585
00:29:17,624 --> 00:29:19,554
computations on your behalf-
586
00:29:19,704 --> 00:29:22,424
And making these predictions
based off of what it's seeing.
587
00:29:22,624 --> 00:29:26,694
So the case that you're talking
about was when I got the WIT award.
588
00:29:26,694 --> 00:29:31,154
It was the Whatever It Takes award that
was in, when I was with Lin- and by the
589
00:29:31,154 --> 00:29:34,154
way, it's not Lancaster, it's Lancaster.
590
00:29:34,294 --> 00:29:34,584
Lancaster.
591
00:29:34,584 --> 00:29:35,014
Lancaster.
592
00:29:35,014 --> 00:29:38,474
Yeah, I should know that because in
fact, there's Lancaster, Pennsylvania,
593
00:29:38,474 --> 00:29:39,434
and I'm from Pennsylvania.
594
00:29:39,434 --> 00:29:39,644
Yes.
595
00:29:39,644 --> 00:29:42,934
So I almost pronounced it that way, but I
was like, "Oh, it might not be the same."
596
00:29:43,204 --> 00:29:43,594
I know.
597
00:29:43,594 --> 00:29:45,474
It's funny 'cause I used to
say, when I got there I said
598
00:29:45,474 --> 00:29:48,434
Lancaster, and they're like, "It's
Lancaster." And I'm like, "Okay."
599
00:29:48,434 --> 00:29:49,654
It took me forever to get it down.
600
00:29:49,714 --> 00:29:57,184
But so when I was there, we had a
serial robbery suspect that was hitting
601
00:29:57,354 --> 00:29:58,864
I don't remember the exact details.
602
00:29:58,864 --> 00:30:01,854
I know there was an analyst with
CMPD, which is Charlotte-Mecklenburg
603
00:30:01,914 --> 00:30:05,224
Police Department, and there
might've been another one.
604
00:30:05,224 --> 00:30:05,724
I have to think.
605
00:30:05,724 --> 00:30:06,354
There was a few.
606
00:30:06,784 --> 00:30:10,619
We were picking up- Again,
this is the 9/11 era, right?
607
00:30:10,779 --> 00:30:14,209
So one of the things that we
learned, which is so importance
608
00:30:14,299 --> 00:30:16,319
and intelligence is sharing.
609
00:30:16,329 --> 00:30:18,699
It doesn't matter what you
know if you don't share it.
610
00:30:19,149 --> 00:30:20,819
And so bulletins were flying.
611
00:30:20,909 --> 00:30:23,769
When I came in, I was like, "You guys
need to be pushing out information.
612
00:30:23,769 --> 00:30:25,979
You need to be actually
reading what's coming in.
613
00:30:25,979 --> 00:30:29,989
Don't just, have, be on these email
list and you're not actually taking
614
00:30:29,989 --> 00:30:35,389
anything that you're getting." And so
there was a few robberies that I had
615
00:30:35,389 --> 00:30:37,119
seen, and they were at gas stations.
616
00:30:37,419 --> 00:30:39,499
We had, I think one or two is one.
617
00:30:39,499 --> 00:30:42,049
I'm like, "I'm pretty certain
that this is the same subject."
618
00:30:42,049 --> 00:30:43,999
And I had reached out, or
she had reached out to me.
619
00:30:43,999 --> 00:30:47,609
We got into co- communication, me and
another analyst with a different, I
620
00:30:47,609 --> 00:30:52,849
believe it's CMPD, and working this
and putting all of these together and
621
00:30:52,899 --> 00:30:57,329
we both got into this, let's predict,
where do we think he's gonna hit next?
622
00:30:57,479 --> 00:30:57,639
Yeah.
623
00:30:57,979 --> 00:31:02,719
And there was a prediction made, and
in that prediction, it was all the way
624
00:31:02,719 --> 00:31:04,959
down to, I had a specific gas station.
625
00:31:04,959 --> 00:31:07,369
I was like, I think this is where
he's gonna hit based off of the
626
00:31:07,369 --> 00:31:10,969
pattern that I'm seeing, what
we call now days between hits.
627
00:31:11,059 --> 00:31:13,549
The pattern of of the
movement all the way up.
628
00:31:13,599 --> 00:31:19,519
I wanna say he had hit Tennessee, Georgia,
he hit us in South Carolina, North
629
00:31:19,519 --> 00:31:21,339
Carolina, and I think like Virginia.
630
00:31:21,369 --> 00:31:24,659
There was several states involved
by the time we got done looking
631
00:31:24,659 --> 00:31:27,889
at essentially this series.
632
00:31:27,989 --> 00:31:29,409
, It was spree and series.
633
00:31:29,409 --> 00:31:32,069
It was interesting because he would
do hit, and then disappear for a bit.
634
00:31:32,289 --> 00:31:35,489
And so we're assuming he probably
was other places we had not detected.
635
00:31:35,489 --> 00:31:37,389
We don't think it ever
actually just stopped.
636
00:31:37,389 --> 00:31:42,739
We think that- Okay ... he was just out of
our our view, and did a prediction on when
637
00:31:42,739 --> 00:31:46,439
and where he was gonna hit, and I'll be
damned if it wasn't the exact gas station.
638
00:31:46,439 --> 00:31:46,528
Nice.
639
00:31:46,708 --> 00:31:48,379
And it was when I thought it was gonna be.
640
00:31:48,409 --> 00:31:48,719
Yeah.
641
00:31:48,859 --> 00:31:52,628
We were able to positively
identify the subject, and then
642
00:31:52,689 --> 00:31:56,359
beforehand made some predictions,
and that's actually where he hit.
643
00:31:56,428 --> 00:31:56,488
Yeah.
644
00:31:56,568 --> 00:31:58,439
So I ended up getting
an award for that one.
645
00:31:58,528 --> 00:31:59,969
That was the Whatever It Takes award.
646
00:32:00,509 --> 00:32:00,808
Nice.
647
00:32:00,808 --> 00:32:04,138
And you got the, was the day
and time correct as well?
648
00:32:04,168 --> 00:32:04,538
Yes.
649
00:32:04,948 --> 00:32:05,538
Nice.
650
00:32:05,998 --> 00:32:06,088
Yeah.
651
00:32:06,168 --> 00:32:06,648
Nice.
652
00:32:06,968 --> 00:32:07,138
Yeah.
653
00:32:07,388 --> 00:32:10,798
But that also came, part of that was
off of, You just, Steph, again, I think
654
00:32:10,798 --> 00:32:12,458
people should know who Kim Rossmo is.
655
00:32:12,458 --> 00:32:16,808
If you don't know geographic profiling
and his work, I am in no means an
656
00:32:16,808 --> 00:32:19,108
expert in it, but I love to study it.
657
00:32:19,158 --> 00:32:22,598
I think it's advantageous for anybody,
whether you're doing just straight
658
00:32:22,598 --> 00:32:25,808
crime analysis or intelligence and
you wanna better- Yeah ... understand
659
00:32:26,228 --> 00:32:30,108
how an offender operates in the
area of which they're operating.
660
00:32:30,339 --> 00:32:30,458
Yeah.
661
00:32:30,508 --> 00:32:32,208
What was the MO with this case?
662
00:32:32,368 --> 00:32:34,099
Oh, Lord, you had to ask me that one.
663
00:32:34,208 --> 00:32:37,188
Yeah ... I, if I re- I know
that it was gas stations.
664
00:32:37,188 --> 00:32:39,349
I remember it was armed robbery.
665
00:32:39,709 --> 00:32:43,229
... And I want to say, if I remember
correctly, he was going into
666
00:32:43,229 --> 00:32:44,919
gas sta- Oh, I do remember this.
667
00:32:44,919 --> 00:32:47,038
He was looking for gas stations
close to the highway 'cause
668
00:32:47,038 --> 00:32:48,568
it was easy in, easy out.
669
00:32:48,568 --> 00:32:48,629
Yeah.
670
00:32:48,629 --> 00:32:55,429
It was in the evening hours, and if I'm
not mistaken, he was picking weekdays,
671
00:32:55,629 --> 00:33:01,469
not weekends, because he knew that there
would be one person at the register in the
672
00:33:01,469 --> 00:33:04,889
store- Yeah ... and there was less likely
to have foot traffic from customers.
673
00:33:05,319 --> 00:33:06,159
And he was in and out.
674
00:33:06,159 --> 00:33:08,629
I don't remember the vehicle he
drove too, but it was something...
675
00:33:08,829 --> 00:33:11,399
I'm just gonna say a vehicle, but
I don't think this was actually.
676
00:33:11,439 --> 00:33:13,479
It was like a silver Kia Soul.
677
00:33:13,509 --> 00:33:17,348
It was something- Yeah ... that was
very unique, and so you had enough
678
00:33:17,469 --> 00:33:22,678
cases where we were seeing a silver
box car, a car that looked like a box.
679
00:33:22,678 --> 00:33:24,228
So, whatever it was- ... it
was distinctive.
680
00:33:24,228 --> 00:33:26,538
You have to excuse me 'cause
it's been a long time since- Yeah
681
00:33:26,848 --> 00:33:28,348
I even remember the details of this.
682
00:33:28,898 --> 00:33:31,458
But it was enough that we were able to
say we're relatively certain it's the
683
00:33:31,458 --> 00:33:35,038
same subject, and of course, the question
that every- everybody always ask is,
684
00:33:35,658 --> 00:33:39,178
people in my world at least, and I'm sure
every other analyst and investigator's
685
00:33:39,178 --> 00:33:43,168
world is, "Do you guys really get better
camera images than that video images?"
686
00:33:43,168 --> 00:33:44,558
And the answer is no, we don't.
687
00:33:44,558 --> 00:33:46,058
What on the news is what we see.
688
00:33:46,058 --> 00:33:46,148
Yeah.
689
00:33:46,928 --> 00:33:48,668
And, oh, that actually reminds me.
690
00:33:48,928 --> 00:33:49,498
I did.
691
00:33:49,838 --> 00:33:50,828
That's how it started.
692
00:33:50,938 --> 00:33:54,518
I saw the guy because I
lived in North Carolina.
693
00:33:54,618 --> 00:33:57,028
I worked in South, lived in
North, right over the border.
694
00:33:57,398 --> 00:33:59,448
I had seen... That's where it started.
695
00:33:59,488 --> 00:34:04,138
I saw a news story with the
CCTV from one of the- Yeah
696
00:34:04,238 --> 00:34:08,288
things, and then that's when I realized,
hey, that's the same guy that we had.
697
00:34:08,778 --> 00:34:13,298
And then I started digging through the
bulletins to look for any generalized
698
00:34:13,298 --> 00:34:14,288
descript- That's what it was.
699
00:34:14,518 --> 00:34:15,378
I'm so glad you said that.
700
00:34:15,408 --> 00:34:17,108
But that yes, that prompted my memory.
701
00:34:17,798 --> 00:34:18,258
There you go.
702
00:34:18,288 --> 00:34:19,488
Was it came from the news.
703
00:34:19,808 --> 00:34:21,648
That's another thing I
think analysts should do.
704
00:34:21,838 --> 00:34:22,618
Watch the news.
705
00:34:22,938 --> 00:34:23,038
Yeah.
706
00:34:23,038 --> 00:34:27,588
You never know what you're going to see
that might not necessarily deal with your
707
00:34:27,588 --> 00:34:31,108
jurisdiction, but will have implications
in your jurisdiction at some other time.
708
00:34:31,298 --> 00:34:31,508
Yeah.
709
00:34:31,558 --> 00:34:35,758
One time, one of my targets that I was
working on, he ended up crashing his
710
00:34:35,758 --> 00:34:39,358
plane, and it was on the main page of CNN
711
00:34:39,713 --> 00:34:40,043
See?
712
00:34:40,203 --> 00:34:43,163
'Cause they found- You never know ... they
found coca- a bunch of cocaine in the,
713
00:34:43,163 --> 00:34:46,003
in there, and it was- Yeah ... it was
it was the guy that we were targeting.
714
00:34:46,183 --> 00:34:49,203
So, but no, I think
that's that's fascinating.
715
00:34:49,203 --> 00:34:51,873
Yeah I'm just thinking of with
the grainy footage, we're getting
716
00:34:51,873 --> 00:34:55,633
the, all these Artemis II, like
these picture perfect m- Yes
717
00:34:55,633 --> 00:34:57,353
images of the moon coming in.
718
00:34:57,393 --> 00:34:57,813
I
719
00:34:57,863 --> 00:34:59,523
know, and that's what
everybody always asks me.
720
00:34:59,523 --> 00:35:00,223
They're like, "Really?
721
00:35:00,223 --> 00:35:03,243
Like you, we get satellite image?"
And I'm like, "No, what is really
722
00:35:03,243 --> 00:35:04,613
what we're getting as well." Yeah.
723
00:35:05,003 --> 00:35:08,153
And the funny thing is that it's just
in the commission of doing my job.
724
00:35:08,483 --> 00:35:08,663
Yeah.
725
00:35:08,873 --> 00:35:09,413
Do you know what I'm saying?
726
00:35:09,413 --> 00:35:10,533
And that's what people ask me.
727
00:35:10,533 --> 00:35:14,823
Like I, I didn't, I don't think I
deserve some amazing award because
728
00:35:14,823 --> 00:35:16,193
I did something extraordinary.
729
00:35:16,193 --> 00:35:19,703
You got officers out here putting their
life on the line who are literally getting
730
00:35:19,703 --> 00:35:24,123
awards for saving lives or whatever, and
this was just one of those instances where
731
00:35:24,663 --> 00:35:27,853
I didn't even remember it till you, we
started talking about it the prompting
732
00:35:27,853 --> 00:35:30,833
from the news story, and then going
through the bulletins and realizing, hey,
733
00:35:30,833 --> 00:35:35,233
the, whatever it was, a silver boxy car
and going, "I think this is the same guy."
734
00:35:35,263 --> 00:35:39,603
And then getting with another analyst
and kind of mapping out, ... what we were
735
00:35:39,603 --> 00:35:44,323
seeing off of multiple jurisdictions,
multiple states, and being able to do
736
00:35:44,423 --> 00:35:48,233
between hits analysis and determining
he's picking gas stations that are...
737
00:35:48,773 --> 00:35:52,293
if I remember correctly, we had it down
to a science of he was literally picking
738
00:35:52,293 --> 00:35:55,993
gas stations like, I do remember this, we
could tell when he was going northbound
739
00:35:55,993 --> 00:36:00,473
versus south because he would only
hit gas stations on the right side of
740
00:36:00,473 --> 00:36:01,823
the road when he was going northbound.
741
00:36:01,823 --> 00:36:01,893
Yeah.
742
00:36:01,893 --> 00:36:03,943
And when he was coming southbound,
he was only... And that's when we're
743
00:36:03,943 --> 00:36:07,143
like, okay, he's picking based off of
whether he's headed north or south,
744
00:36:07,173 --> 00:36:08,873
and he was literally going up and down.
745
00:36:08,873 --> 00:36:09,043
Yeah.
746
00:36:09,513 --> 00:36:11,603
And yeah, it was just
a variety of factors.
747
00:36:11,603 --> 00:36:14,473
That's where crime analysis comes
into play, and then you get the intel
748
00:36:14,473 --> 00:36:18,693
side in there, which is once we get a,
digging into the vehicles and figuring
749
00:36:18,693 --> 00:36:24,073
out who this guy is, and then being
able to put him at different places
750
00:36:24,073 --> 00:36:29,873
at different times in different states
because he has to buy gas sometime.
751
00:36:29,973 --> 00:36:32,653
There was certain things that, yeah,
I don't remember everything that
752
00:36:32,653 --> 00:36:36,003
the investigators had, but it was
really cool to be able to then say we
753
00:36:36,003 --> 00:36:39,323
basically moved off of I, his vehicle.
754
00:36:39,683 --> 00:36:43,273
His vehicle and using
a gun I don't remember.
755
00:36:43,803 --> 00:36:47,333
The gun was described with some relative
accuracy 'cause it was something odd.
756
00:36:47,333 --> 00:36:50,443
It was like, I don't remem- I would,
I'd be lying if I say so, but I'm
757
00:36:50,443 --> 00:36:51,443
just gonna say like a revolver.
758
00:36:51,443 --> 00:36:53,713
Like it was something- Yeah ... at
the time that was unique.
759
00:36:53,713 --> 00:36:56,463
It wasn't, it was like,
okay, I'm relatively certain
760
00:36:56,463 --> 00:36:57,593
that this is the same guy.
761
00:36:57,793 --> 00:36:58,033
Yeah.
762
00:36:58,203 --> 00:37:01,923
And I think when it comes to
geographic profiling, I think half,
763
00:37:02,213 --> 00:37:07,283
half the battle is just making sure
that all the cases are connected.
764
00:37:07,688 --> 00:37:08,358
That's-
765
00:37:08,408 --> 00:37:09,858
...
That's the hard part, yeah.
766
00:37:10,158 --> 00:37:14,788
And the, and I think the other
issue is it's not just all, are all
767
00:37:14,788 --> 00:37:17,848
of the cases there, but some cases
that can realistically look like
768
00:37:17,848 --> 00:37:18,968
it's the offender and it's not.
769
00:37:19,028 --> 00:37:22,848
Because there were a few that I remember
that we looked at, and they were very
770
00:37:22,848 --> 00:37:25,698
similar, but we did not feel confident.
771
00:37:25,898 --> 00:37:28,488
We felt confident enough to know
that I don't think this is the guy.
772
00:37:28,588 --> 00:37:28,648
Yeah.
773
00:37:28,878 --> 00:37:31,788
I really genuinely can say I don't
think this is him, even though
774
00:37:31,788 --> 00:37:33,548
everything seems to line up.
775
00:37:33,788 --> 00:37:34,648
Very good.
776
00:37:34,648 --> 00:37:36,558
Man, that's a, that,
no, that's a good case.
777
00:37:36,748 --> 00:37:37,118
All right.
778
00:37:37,148 --> 00:37:41,758
Well, let's let's move on then, 'cause
you do end up coming home to Texas.
779
00:37:41,808 --> 00:37:42,178
I do.
780
00:37:42,178 --> 00:37:46,468
Le- leaving South Carolina
to come back to San Antonio.
781
00:37:46,688 --> 00:37:48,738
Was just the decision to come home?
782
00:37:48,738 --> 00:37:49,578
Is is that what happened?
783
00:37:49,638 --> 00:37:50,898
So it was a couple things.
784
00:37:50,948 --> 00:37:54,698
After that case, I ended
up in a few other cases.
785
00:37:54,918 --> 00:38:01,868
I was noticed by the fusion center
liaison there that was with DHS.
786
00:38:01,868 --> 00:38:05,168
And so he reached out to me at
the time and was like, "Hey,"
787
00:38:06,628 --> 00:38:07,968
"We're interested." Yeah.
788
00:38:08,028 --> 00:38:15,728
And so I ended up going to FLETC and
did the DHS IATP course, and then
789
00:38:15,728 --> 00:38:18,318
came back and was utilizing that.
790
00:38:18,398 --> 00:38:22,318
And when ... I really did love
my family in South Carolina.
791
00:38:22,358 --> 00:38:24,988
I loved being close to my
sister and the SO was family.
792
00:38:25,018 --> 00:38:28,828
However- ... with that being
said, I'm a Texas girl.
793
00:38:29,308 --> 00:38:32,288
And they eat pork- ... and I eat beef.
794
00:38:33,158 --> 00:38:37,588
And it was also really interesting
because unsweet tea is a thing out there.
795
00:38:37,648 --> 00:38:37,708
Yeah.
796
00:38:37,878 --> 00:38:40,888
So Texas is sweet tea and beef.
797
00:38:41,128 --> 00:38:41,278
Yeah.
798
00:38:41,278 --> 00:38:46,788
And South Carolina is
fatback pork and unsweet tea.
799
00:38:47,088 --> 00:38:47,268
Yeah.
800
00:38:47,388 --> 00:38:49,628
And so I always, people are
like, "Why'd you come back?"
801
00:38:49,628 --> 00:38:52,058
I'm like, "The food." I needed to eat.
802
00:38:52,058 --> 00:38:52,308
Love it.
803
00:38:52,338 --> 00:38:53,308
I needed to eat.
804
00:38:53,738 --> 00:38:53,938
No.
805
00:38:53,978 --> 00:38:55,118
They really did have good food.
806
00:38:55,148 --> 00:38:58,318
But the beef and the sweet tea
thing was a difficult one for me.
807
00:38:58,468 --> 00:38:58,528
Yeah.
808
00:38:58,798 --> 00:39:00,908
But at the end of the
day, my parents were here.
809
00:39:01,158 --> 00:39:02,228
I had my daughter.
810
00:39:02,368 --> 00:39:08,578
I was married at the time, and
so my now former husband, he
811
00:39:08,578 --> 00:39:10,288
wanted to come back to Texas.
812
00:39:10,358 --> 00:39:14,658
And so he worked for the Department
of Criminal Justice in the prisons.
813
00:39:14,768 --> 00:39:15,158
Okay.
814
00:39:15,158 --> 00:39:17,628
So again, another reason I was not a fan.
815
00:39:17,998 --> 00:39:18,178
Yeah.
816
00:39:18,258 --> 00:39:21,588
So it was just really a lot of
things that brought us back.
817
00:39:21,688 --> 00:39:27,728
And because I, at that point, had
undergone quite a bit of training more
818
00:39:27,728 --> 00:39:33,128
hands-on, less academia, and getting,
my feet wet, I had over the years with
819
00:39:33,128 --> 00:39:36,408
different agencies, like I said, I'd,
for the two years that I worked with Dr.
820
00:39:36,408 --> 00:39:37,598
Becker and stuff like that.
821
00:39:37,748 --> 00:39:42,398
But- ... it wasn't, or Professor
Becker, it wasn't working for a law
822
00:39:42,398 --> 00:39:46,208
enforcement agency full time, you're
knee-deep in all of this stuff.
823
00:39:46,688 --> 00:39:49,853
And I was like, I- I
really want a challenge.
824
00:39:49,913 --> 00:39:54,653
And so San Antonio's PD opened up
in Southwest Texas Fusion Center,
825
00:39:54,653 --> 00:39:57,723
and I put in for it, and I got it.
826
00:39:57,763 --> 00:40:03,673
And it was a huge change of pace to
go from a county of 1,000 or 100,000
827
00:40:03,673 --> 00:40:07,903
citizens, now granted they had a pretty
large crime rate for their size, to
828
00:40:07,903 --> 00:40:09,653
the seventh largest city in the US.
829
00:40:10,023 --> 00:40:10,233
Yeah.
830
00:40:10,233 --> 00:40:11,323
That, that was a big jump.
831
00:40:11,493 --> 00:40:14,653
And you're working major
crimes with the Fusion Center?
832
00:40:14,883 --> 00:40:14,973
Yes.
833
00:40:15,193 --> 00:40:19,233
So it was with Strategic Intelligence
and Analytics and- and Southwest
834
00:40:19,233 --> 00:40:22,453
Texas Fusion Center, like it's under
one umbrella, or it was at the time.
835
00:40:22,453 --> 00:40:24,703
I'm not sure how they've
separated things now.
836
00:40:25,583 --> 00:40:30,193
And I was working major crimes,
predominantly violent major.
837
00:40:30,603 --> 00:40:35,763
That brings us to , another badge story
that you have, because it's here that
838
00:40:35,763 --> 00:40:38,503
you work on the serial rapist case.
839
00:40:38,673 --> 00:40:39,263
Yes.
840
00:40:39,293 --> 00:40:43,903
So I actually had, I had ... Well,
there's actually two.
841
00:40:44,403 --> 00:40:44,613
Okay.
842
00:40:46,193 --> 00:40:46,643
There's two.
843
00:40:46,903 --> 00:40:53,443
One is a group who are sexually
assaulting, robbing, and stealing
844
00:40:53,443 --> 00:40:55,693
the vehicles of sex workers.
845
00:40:55,873 --> 00:40:55,973
Okay.
846
00:40:55,973 --> 00:40:59,483
And so they'll go to
their hotels as a john.
847
00:40:59,733 --> 00:41:03,723
They end up, one person turns into
upwards of five in some of these
848
00:41:03,723 --> 00:41:09,533
cases, and most sex workers are not
going to report that sort of thing.
849
00:41:09,533 --> 00:41:09,773
Sure.
850
00:41:09,773 --> 00:41:14,183
So they were violently sexually
assaulted robbed, and then if they had
851
00:41:14,183 --> 00:41:15,913
a vehicle at the location, it was taken.
852
00:41:16,213 --> 00:41:18,193
So several of these cases are happening.
853
00:41:18,673 --> 00:41:22,183
My supervisor comes to me, and it
was w- weird the way that Southwest
854
00:41:22,183 --> 00:41:25,223
Texas Fusion Center and SIA was set
up at the d- same time, Strategic
855
00:41:25,223 --> 00:41:26,273
Intelligence and Analytics.
856
00:41:26,273 --> 00:41:31,013
'Cause I was specifically working
cases with both, but under SIA, and
857
00:41:31,013 --> 00:41:34,403
we were under the same super, but
not... It was very odd at the time.
858
00:41:34,563 --> 00:41:34,643
Okay.
859
00:41:34,643 --> 00:41:36,203
And all that's been corrected,
is my understanding.
860
00:41:36,933 --> 00:41:39,963
So my supervisor came to me, he said,
"Look, I want you to do something
861
00:41:39,963 --> 00:41:43,933
with this because there's somebody
assigned to this, and there needs to
862
00:41:43,933 --> 00:41:45,313
be something moving faster on it."
863
00:41:45,363 --> 00:41:50,013
And I was like, "Cool. Got it."
So I ended up looking at a variety
864
00:41:50,013 --> 00:41:53,223
of cases, and you could see where
there was two to five offenders
865
00:41:53,223 --> 00:41:55,483
that would go in, same kind of MO.
866
00:41:55,483 --> 00:42:00,033
They're hitting these sex
workers and in and out.
867
00:42:00,063 --> 00:42:04,673
And without going into, to too much
detail, essentially once we started
868
00:42:04,673 --> 00:42:09,673
bringing additional investigators in,
the lead investigator was assigned
869
00:42:09,673 --> 00:42:14,013
to it and there was some contention
over my involvement in this.
870
00:42:14,233 --> 00:42:16,453
And my supervisor told
me, "Do not back down.
871
00:42:16,453 --> 00:42:19,248
You're gonna work this."
Yeah ... "Because-" The other
872
00:42:19,248 --> 00:42:20,388
analyst had their opportunity.
873
00:42:20,388 --> 00:42:21,658
It's not working out for them.
874
00:42:21,918 --> 00:42:23,748
You need-- We need something done fast.
875
00:42:23,748 --> 00:42:27,748
And I'm like, "Okay." So I ended up
one of the biggest questions I had
876
00:42:27,748 --> 00:42:29,308
is where are the cars turning up?
877
00:42:29,548 --> 00:42:30,838
Where are the cars being recovered?
878
00:42:31,108 --> 00:42:36,068
Because everybody was so focused on
where the crimes were happening off of
879
00:42:36,068 --> 00:42:38,008
the major highways, same exact thing.
880
00:42:38,008 --> 00:42:40,988
We didn't know if the people lived in
Austin and were coming down here to
881
00:42:40,988 --> 00:42:45,278
do this because they were up and down
I-35 and I-10, predominantly I-35.
882
00:42:45,308 --> 00:42:49,058
And so the question was is are they
traversing between San Antonio and Austin?
883
00:42:49,418 --> 00:42:53,528
And my simple answer or question was
is where are the cars being recovered?
884
00:42:53,768 --> 00:42:56,308
That will tell you quite a bit
about where the offenders are
885
00:42:56,308 --> 00:42:58,548
at least landing at some point.
886
00:42:58,598 --> 00:43:03,238
And I think I had it three days,
four days, and I had-- was able
887
00:43:03,238 --> 00:43:07,228
to nail down almost all of the
vehicles in close proximity to
888
00:43:07,228 --> 00:43:08,858
a single apartment complex- Nice
889
00:43:08,858 --> 00:43:12,248
which was a Section 8 housing complex.
890
00:43:12,248 --> 00:43:15,288
And then I got with some of the
investigators and I said, "Here's
891
00:43:15,288 --> 00:43:19,138
your subject identifiers. Here's
unique things." They went out and
892
00:43:19,138 --> 00:43:21,778
talked to the, There was twofolds.
893
00:43:21,778 --> 00:43:24,938
So in the city of San Antonio, I don't
know if it's like this still, but
894
00:43:25,018 --> 00:43:30,168
anybody who is on subsidized housing,
all persons that are in that apartment
895
00:43:30,168 --> 00:43:35,418
or house have to be listed, and we had
access to that information upon request.
896
00:43:35,468 --> 00:43:37,588
So it was a matter of here's
what we're looking for.
897
00:43:37,588 --> 00:43:41,498
Here's the-- They're male subjects
between these ages, this race,
898
00:43:41,558 --> 00:43:43,838
ethnicity, build, all of these things.
899
00:43:43,928 --> 00:43:48,018
The guys also went out and talked to
the property managers and said, "This
900
00:43:48,018 --> 00:43:50,938
is what we're looking for." They also
did surveillance on the property,
901
00:43:51,358 --> 00:43:54,998
identified some of the subjects
just from doing visual surveillance,
902
00:43:55,028 --> 00:43:57,458
and I think we had f- all five.
903
00:43:57,508 --> 00:43:58,238
We had five.
904
00:43:58,238 --> 00:44:00,128
There may-- There were questions
about if there were a couple
905
00:44:00,128 --> 00:44:03,788
more, six or seven, because again,
they interchanged by each crime.
906
00:44:04,168 --> 00:44:07,398
But I think they walked warrants on
all five of them within three days.
907
00:44:07,588 --> 00:44:07,718
Nice.
908
00:44:07,748 --> 00:44:11,628
It was-- And it all came down to a
simple question in my mind, which is
909
00:44:11,838 --> 00:44:13,028
where are the cars being recovered?
910
00:44:13,268 --> 00:44:16,498
Sometimes it's not necessarily what
you get off of the crime scene.
911
00:44:16,498 --> 00:44:16,578
Yeah.
912
00:44:17,018 --> 00:44:18,948
It's what you get, like that.
913
00:44:18,998 --> 00:44:22,598
And I think what was so terrifying about
that case, and I got an award for that
914
00:44:22,598 --> 00:44:27,249
case as well, was that me and two-- I
think there was two other people who
915
00:44:27,249 --> 00:44:30,508
were working and the TEOC Southwest
Texas Fusion is like we tag teamed
916
00:44:30,508 --> 00:44:34,903
it, was you could see the progression
Because by the time this landed on
917
00:44:34,903 --> 00:44:38,263
my desk and I think it was literally
like three to five days, had subjects
918
00:44:38,263 --> 00:44:39,973
identified their walking warrants.
919
00:44:40,033 --> 00:44:42,743
And and it was all off of where
the car's being recovered.
920
00:44:42,803 --> 00:44:45,183
That's the easiest way to look
at this to help you focus.
921
00:44:45,963 --> 00:44:48,343
You could see the progression
as the cases had been.
922
00:44:48,383 --> 00:44:52,233
When I had mined out additional cases,
you could see the progression where it was
923
00:44:52,233 --> 00:44:55,383
like one subject assaulted a sex worker.
924
00:44:56,123 --> 00:44:58,573
Then it was that subject
and another subject.
925
00:44:58,573 --> 00:45:02,183
You could see the progression of the
violence where- ... it was a sexual as-
926
00:45:02,233 --> 00:45:05,523
or I think it was like a robbery, then
it was a sexual assault and a robbery,
927
00:45:05,523 --> 00:45:10,013
sexual assault, robbery, severe aggravated
assault where they were pistol-whipped,
928
00:45:10,193 --> 00:45:12,463
and you could see the progression.
929
00:45:12,883 --> 00:45:17,143
And so it was... I remember telling
them, "We're gonna end up with a body,"
930
00:45:17,243 --> 00:45:23,153
because there was extreme torture
involved towards the latter of the cases.
931
00:45:23,153 --> 00:45:25,193
And I was like you're going
to end up with a body.
932
00:45:25,733 --> 00:45:27,353
We're- that's where we're
progressing towards."
933
00:45:27,553 --> 00:45:31,623
I find it fascinating the situation
you were put in there, a little
934
00:45:31,623 --> 00:45:33,623
bit of office politics, right?
935
00:45:33,623 --> 00:45:34,073
'Cause that's a- I
936
00:45:34,073 --> 00:45:34,293
did.
937
00:45:34,293 --> 00:45:34,373
I
938
00:45:34,473 --> 00:45:37,513
did ... that's a tough position
for an analyst to be in.
939
00:45:37,513 --> 00:45:42,993
And y- with a fusion center, you have
multiple agencies coming together.
940
00:45:42,993 --> 00:45:46,493
It's not one big happy
family, so to speak.
941
00:45:46,493 --> 00:45:50,623
Thinking about it now,, advice for
somebody that might be put into that role
942
00:45:51,033 --> 00:45:55,613
Here, so here's the-- I literally had
the sergeant, her sergeant get into my
943
00:45:55,613 --> 00:45:59,223
face and start pointing in my face, and,
"Who are you, and what are you doing?"
944
00:45:59,223 --> 00:46:00,343
And blah, blah- Wow ... blah, blah, blah.
945
00:46:00,643 --> 00:46:03,853
And my response to that was is, "Well,
I'm the only certified intelligence
946
00:46:03,853 --> 00:46:06,373
analyst you have in this agency,
and I've been asked to do it."
947
00:46:06,623 --> 00:46:09,933
So, and that probably wasn't the best
response, but at that point- ... I
948
00:46:09,933 --> 00:46:14,353
was livid because again, I had been
asked to do it by my supervisor.
949
00:46:14,903 --> 00:46:17,643
And even my supervisor, when we got
out of that meeting, he was like,
950
00:46:17,833 --> 00:46:18,803
"Keep doing what you're doing.
951
00:46:18,803 --> 00:46:20,033
You're not doing anything wrong.
952
00:46:20,063 --> 00:46:23,533
I asked you to do this because
at the end of the day, it's not
953
00:46:23,533 --> 00:46:25,323
about who's gonna take credit.
954
00:46:25,363 --> 00:46:27,553
It's not about-- It can't be about that.
955
00:46:27,553 --> 00:46:29,913
It cannot be about you wanting
your name on something.
956
00:46:29,913 --> 00:46:35,433
It has to be about preventing crime,
preventing a victim from being victimized
957
00:46:35,473 --> 00:46:39,053
or re-victimized." And 'cause I was
about to wash my hands of this "Fine.
958
00:46:39,203 --> 00:46:43,123
Figure it out yourself." Like, why
are you in my face yelling at me
959
00:46:43,273 --> 00:46:44,573
when I've been asked to do this?
960
00:46:44,603 --> 00:46:47,513
This needs to be a conversation
between the two supervisors-
961
00:46:47,693 --> 00:46:47,883
Yeah
962
00:46:47,913 --> 00:46:51,783
not the four of us in a room,
you with your analyst in my face
963
00:46:51,783 --> 00:46:55,343
pointing, , literally yelling at me
about who I am and who do I think
964
00:46:55,343 --> 00:46:56,503
I am and what did I come here.
965
00:46:56,533 --> 00:47:00,913
I'm the major crimes analyst for the
Strategic Intelligence and Analytics.
966
00:47:01,233 --> 00:47:01,863
That's who I am.
967
00:47:02,573 --> 00:47:02,633
Yeah.
968
00:47:02,683 --> 00:47:03,933
And I was asked to do this.
969
00:47:04,023 --> 00:47:09,063
So it-it's one of those where you have
to maintain your integrity, which is very
970
00:47:09,063 --> 00:47:12,653
hard because I I have a mouth sometimes.
971
00:47:13,923 --> 00:47:18,633
And it's very difficult because I really--
That's exactly what I wanted to say,
972
00:47:18,633 --> 00:47:20,713
and I wanted to say more, but I didn't.
973
00:47:20,763 --> 00:47:24,313
I just looked at my supervisor,
and I was like, "This is who I am.
974
00:47:24,653 --> 00:47:28,863
I was asked to do this." And my
supervisor still is sitting there,
975
00:47:28,863 --> 00:47:30,393
and he's "She was asked to do this."
976
00:47:30,553 --> 00:47:30,753
Yeah.
977
00:47:31,163 --> 00:47:35,033
And so at the end of the day, it
doesn't matter whose name is on it.
978
00:47:35,063 --> 00:47:36,873
It can't be about whose name is on it.
979
00:47:36,873 --> 00:47:41,433
It can't be about the glory and
the this is, my case or whatever.
980
00:47:41,953 --> 00:47:45,383
You have to love what you do- and you
have to do it for the right reasons.
981
00:47:45,413 --> 00:47:50,333
And at the end of the day, w-we are
here to support law enforcement.
982
00:47:50,333 --> 00:47:52,973
We are here to help people
from being victimized.
983
00:47:52,973 --> 00:47:55,793
We are here to get violent offenders
or any offenders off the street.
984
00:47:56,313 --> 00:47:59,793
So it-- the best I can tell
somebody is keep your integrity.
985
00:47:59,973 --> 00:48:01,223
Stand in your integrity.
986
00:48:01,773 --> 00:48:04,533
If you have a mouth, learn
when to keep it closed.
987
00:48:06,733 --> 00:48:12,563
And I knew that there were additional
things involved in that equation that
988
00:48:12,563 --> 00:48:17,753
I could have really made a stink about
and I chose not to in that moment
989
00:48:17,783 --> 00:48:21,613
because it could have gotten really
personal really quickly for them.
990
00:48:21,863 --> 00:48:21,943
Yeah.
991
00:48:21,983 --> 00:48:24,573
And so I just, I, again, I
stayed in that integrity and
992
00:48:24,573 --> 00:48:25,953
was just like, this is who I am.
993
00:48:26,023 --> 00:48:29,033
This is what I was asked to do." And
that sergeant had actually just come
994
00:48:29,033 --> 00:48:33,653
in, so he was being, hyper-defensive
I'm sure of his analyst, but at the
995
00:48:33,653 --> 00:48:35,783
same time, I was asked to do it.
996
00:48:35,903 --> 00:48:35,963
Yeah.
997
00:48:36,183 --> 00:48:37,113
This is what I do.
998
00:48:37,203 --> 00:48:38,493
This is what I've been doing.
999
00:48:38,733 --> 00:48:41,373
And so again, I think it's
inappropriate to bring me into a
1000
00:48:41,373 --> 00:48:42,743
room and start getting in my face.
1001
00:48:42,773 --> 00:48:45,753
You need to have a question with my
supervisor, a private conversation.
1002
00:48:46,663 --> 00:48:46,893
Yeah.
1003
00:48:47,063 --> 00:48:47,273
Yeah.
1004
00:48:47,333 --> 00:48:51,053
There's no easy way to handle any of that.
1005
00:48:51,313 --> 00:48:51,573
Yeah.
1006
00:48:51,783 --> 00:48:53,093
Office politics are real.
1007
00:48:53,093 --> 00:48:53,183
Yes.
1008
00:48:53,493 --> 00:48:56,693
That's definitely something that I
think I, I don't, you just can't, I
1009
00:48:56,693 --> 00:48:58,073
don't even think you can escape it.
1010
00:48:58,073 --> 00:49:02,763
You're, every analyst is going to
have a story about office politics
1011
00:49:03,273 --> 00:49:04,523
i- if they work long enough.
1012
00:49:04,633 --> 00:49:10,123
And that's really where it gets into the
ex- but the longer you do this, the more
1013
00:49:10,123 --> 00:49:15,383
difficult it becomes, I swear, because
you're constantly fighting the... People
1014
00:49:15,383 --> 00:49:16,553
think that you're some sort of way.
1015
00:49:16,583 --> 00:49:18,943
Like I've had somebody say
I'm pretentious, and I'm like,
1016
00:49:19,013 --> 00:49:20,883
"I'm not pretentious." Yeah.
1017
00:49:20,883 --> 00:49:22,503
"I've just been doing this a long time.
1018
00:49:22,503 --> 00:49:25,923
There's a right way to do things,
there's a wrong way to do things, and
1019
00:49:25,923 --> 00:49:27,583
sometimes there is no right or wrong.
1020
00:49:27,583 --> 00:49:30,483
You just gotta get out of your way,
shut your mouth, and see what the best
1021
00:49:30,483 --> 00:49:36,164
way is, and maybe it's not your way."
However I don't enjoy the I avoid,
1022
00:49:36,283 --> 00:49:37,533
Do you know the little plague doctor?
1023
00:49:37,643 --> 00:49:40,903
Have you ever seen the plague doctor from
literally the plague, but I'm sure you've
1024
00:49:40,903 --> 00:49:42,633
seen the little stuffed dolls or... Okay.
1025
00:49:42,663 --> 00:49:42,833
Yeah,
1026
00:49:42,833 --> 00:49:43,003
Yeah.
1027
00:49:43,053 --> 00:49:46,323
I have a s- I think they're called
squish, squishes or something like that.
1028
00:49:46,354 --> 00:49:46,393
Yeah.
1029
00:49:46,393 --> 00:49:49,453
Little stuffed plague doctor that
is on my briefcase because I tell
1030
00:49:49,453 --> 00:49:51,783
people I avoid drama like the plague.
1031
00:49:52,314 --> 00:49:55,513
I'm-- It's not that I'm
non-confrontational, I just don't find it
1032
00:49:55,513 --> 00:49:57,223
necessary, and there's no place for it.
1033
00:49:57,423 --> 00:49:57,484
Yeah.
1034
00:49:57,484 --> 00:49:58,193
Take it somewhere else.
1035
00:49:58,193 --> 00:49:59,253
This is not high school.
1036
00:49:59,393 --> 00:49:59,453
Yeah.
1037
00:49:59,923 --> 00:50:04,463
And so I felt in that moment it was very
much like this is not professionally how
1038
00:50:04,463 --> 00:50:08,633
this should be handled, and why are we
having a conversation because I'm helping
1039
00:50:08,633 --> 00:50:11,073
an investigator identify these subjects?
1040
00:50:11,223 --> 00:50:11,284
Yeah.
1041
00:50:11,424 --> 00:50:15,483
It should be a, "Hey, somebody has
an idea that we haven't previously
1042
00:50:15,483 --> 00:50:17,203
thought about. Great." Yeah.
1043
00:50:17,203 --> 00:50:20,883
Not a, "You're coming in here
taking over." N-no, I got asked
1044
00:50:20,883 --> 00:50:22,404
to, and I came out of the box.
1045
00:50:22,404 --> 00:50:25,924
That's typically what I do, is
I try and think outside the box.
1046
00:50:25,924 --> 00:50:27,273
What is everybody else looking at?
1047
00:50:27,463 --> 00:50:29,623
Because that tells me
what we're not looking at.
1048
00:50:29,843 --> 00:50:29,983
Yeah.
1049
00:50:30,323 --> 00:50:30,494
Yeah.
1050
00:50:30,593 --> 00:50:32,043
But it turns into
something it shouldn't be.
1051
00:50:32,253 --> 00:50:32,503
Yeah.
1052
00:50:32,753 --> 00:50:33,244
All right.
1053
00:50:33,273 --> 00:50:34,483
Well, very good.
1054
00:50:34,593 --> 00:50:38,153
All well, now, okay, so now
I d- I let's let's talk about
1055
00:50:38,153 --> 00:50:39,263
the serial rape case then.
1056
00:50:39,473 --> 00:50:40,863
Okay, so that's the next one.
1057
00:50:40,863 --> 00:50:43,193
So this one- ... this one
gets really interesting.
1058
00:50:43,493 --> 00:50:44,533
Same thing happens.
1059
00:50:44,643 --> 00:50:45,713
Same analyst.
1060
00:50:45,913 --> 00:50:46,763
Same everything.
1061
00:50:46,763 --> 00:50:47,323
Geez.
1062
00:50:49,753 --> 00:50:55,393
So my supervisor comes to me and says,
"This analyst has this," and there were,
1063
00:50:55,393 --> 00:50:57,803
I think there were 11 cases handed to me.
1064
00:50:58,333 --> 00:51:00,503
I mined out six of those.
1065
00:51:00,503 --> 00:51:03,863
If I remember correctly, six of them
were believed to be the same subject.
1066
00:51:04,623 --> 00:51:07,143
I went back, I think two years.
1067
00:51:07,143 --> 00:51:08,343
I know there was two years' worth of data.
1068
00:51:08,343 --> 00:51:09,453
I went back two years.
1069
00:51:09,863 --> 00:51:14,243
I mined out a total of 31 cases
that were likely the same subject
1070
00:51:14,273 --> 00:51:15,673
or could be the same subject.
1071
00:51:15,863 --> 00:51:16,943
So I start working.
1072
00:51:16,943 --> 00:51:17,533
I go down.
1073
00:51:18,143 --> 00:51:23,603
I notify SVIU that, "Hey these are the
additional cases." At this point, this
1074
00:51:23,603 --> 00:51:27,333
analyst has already been working on
it and again, why my supervisor came
1075
00:51:27,333 --> 00:51:28,393
to me and said, "We need something.
1076
00:51:28,393 --> 00:51:30,813
We need something that-"
There's-- This is ridiculous.
1077
00:51:31,133 --> 00:51:35,703
I said, "Okay." So I went down there, I
told them date, time, I did geographic
1078
00:51:35,703 --> 00:51:38,963
profiling, I determined how the
subject was moving, where they likely
1079
00:51:38,963 --> 00:51:42,163
lived, all of these other things,
and then I said, "I think you have a
1080
00:51:42,163 --> 00:51:46,363
juvenile on your hands, and it's been
going on for at least two years."
1081
00:51:47,093 --> 00:51:52,663
And I explained the reason behind
all of that from DNA left behind
1082
00:51:52,663 --> 00:51:57,143
to subjects behavior patterns,
like all of these things, right?
1083
00:51:57,203 --> 00:52:02,283
And so one of the detective who was
the lead detective that I had just
1084
00:52:02,283 --> 00:52:06,703
done that other serial case on was
like, "Great." He snapped it up.
1085
00:52:06,913 --> 00:52:10,593
Another detective who had just
been pulled off of, he had been
1086
00:52:10,593 --> 00:52:14,643
doing undercover work for the last
few years, he got put in there.
1087
00:52:14,673 --> 00:52:16,473
He was like, "This is phenomenal.
1088
00:52:16,473 --> 00:52:19,123
We've got all kinds of, additional
information we didn't have.
1089
00:52:19,123 --> 00:52:22,833
Some of this we already knew." But,
he was very adamant that they were
1090
00:52:22,833 --> 00:52:25,583
adamant, the other investigators, that
it was not a juvenile, and I'm like,
1091
00:52:25,583 --> 00:52:27,463
"I'm telling you, it's a juvenile."
1092
00:52:28,033 --> 00:52:29,433
And they were like, "There's no way.
1093
00:52:29,433 --> 00:52:30,783
This is too sophisticated.
1094
00:52:30,783 --> 00:52:33,563
This has been going on too long,"
blah, blah, blah, and I'm like,
1095
00:52:33,563 --> 00:52:42,353
"Okay." Well, again, this time I end
up in HR because I am now questioning
1096
00:52:42,353 --> 00:52:46,613
apparently, this analyst's capabilities
or whatever, and I'm like, "Again,
1097
00:52:47,093 --> 00:52:52,473
I was asked to do this, and I gave
you everything that I can give you."
1098
00:52:53,063 --> 00:52:55,423
At that point, I had also
identified the subject.
1099
00:52:55,453 --> 00:52:58,503
I did not have his name, but I had
the social media accounts of the
1100
00:52:58,503 --> 00:53:01,863
people he was, and I'll use the
term operating with very loosely.
1101
00:53:02,123 --> 00:53:06,203
It's why we had-- I think we were down
to a two-minute response time, he could
1102
00:53:06,203 --> 00:53:10,163
not be found, and we had him on CCTV
hiding in the parking lots of the exact
1103
00:53:10,163 --> 00:53:12,123
parking lots that we were saturating in.
1104
00:53:12,184 --> 00:53:15,014
So as we're moving around cars
looking for him, he's moving around
1105
00:53:15,014 --> 00:53:16,393
between them to get away from us.
1106
00:53:16,993 --> 00:53:19,623
So all kinds of things, and I was
like, "Look, this is this kid.
1107
00:53:19,733 --> 00:53:20,673
This is who he's running with.
1108
00:53:20,724 --> 00:53:23,524
I don't know his name but
this is why he's disappearing.
1109
00:53:23,524 --> 00:53:25,524
He's literally disappearing
into their apartments.
1110
00:53:25,524 --> 00:53:29,604
He's going inside of their units, so we're
responding, and that's why he's vanishing.
1111
00:53:30,113 --> 00:53:31,384
And this is how he's operating.
1112
00:53:31,384 --> 00:53:34,554
This is where I think he's coming out
of." It-- There was like a whole lot
1113
00:53:34,753 --> 00:53:39,994
involved in this, and they didn't wanna
listen because this other analyst was
1114
00:53:39,994 --> 00:53:45,493
assigned to it, and it was causing a,
again- office drama with her supervisor.
1115
00:53:46,133 --> 00:53:46,873
And I was like, "You know what?
1116
00:53:47,073 --> 00:53:48,563
I gave you everything I can give you.
1117
00:53:48,753 --> 00:53:50,573
I've told you this is the kid.
1118
00:53:50,873 --> 00:53:54,253
I don't know who he is." Now, this
is again back before, law enforcement
1119
00:53:54,253 --> 00:53:56,653
was using facial recognition
software and all of that stuff.
1120
00:53:56,653 --> 00:53:59,953
So I'm like, "I can only tell
you, here's the kid, and here's
1121
00:53:59,953 --> 00:54:02,764
the people he's operating with,
their social media accounts."
1122
00:54:03,243 --> 00:54:08,203
And I ended up, I did some predictive
analysis all the way down to the
1123
00:54:08,203 --> 00:54:09,963
apartment that he was going to hit next.
1124
00:54:09,963 --> 00:54:13,253
Not only the apartment
complex, but the specific unit.
1125
00:54:13,593 --> 00:54:17,154
There was a victim that had moved out.
1126
00:54:17,593 --> 00:54:22,993
And it was serial sexual assault, And
I just, I had this feeling based off of
1127
00:54:22,993 --> 00:54:26,833
what I was like, I told the other analysts
that I was, were with me, and as I said,
1128
00:54:26,833 --> 00:54:28,053
"He's gonna hit this apartment again.
1129
00:54:28,103 --> 00:54:33,193
He's gonna wait to see if a female moves
in." I just, I don't know how to explain
1130
00:54:33,193 --> 00:54:36,973
to you what it is I know, but this is how
I'm seeing, everything that I'm mapping
1131
00:54:36,973 --> 00:54:40,243
out and the behaviors, and he's not doing
like one apartment, then the next, and
1132
00:54:40,243 --> 00:54:42,193
then he's not making a circular pattern.
1133
00:54:42,463 --> 00:54:45,333
It's not necessarily spiral,
but it's all in the same area
1134
00:54:45,333 --> 00:54:46,423
in the way that he's doing this.
1135
00:54:47,603 --> 00:54:52,983
So I took them in my personal vehicle,
and we went out to the apartment complex.
1136
00:54:53,293 --> 00:54:56,993
This is in the medical area,
and I'm laughing now, but
1137
00:54:56,993 --> 00:54:58,393
at the time, it's... Yeah.
1138
00:54:58,503 --> 00:55:00,673
So we go out, and I show
them the exact apartment.
1139
00:55:00,673 --> 00:55:03,283
I said, "This is where he's gonna hit
next, I guarantee you, because if you
1140
00:55:03,283 --> 00:55:07,243
look at the layout of the apartment
complexes, this is why he's choosing
1141
00:55:07,303 --> 00:55:09,333
victims in the late night hours.
1142
00:55:09,383 --> 00:55:10,783
These are in the medical center.
1143
00:55:10,783 --> 00:55:11,853
This is nurses.
1144
00:55:11,893 --> 00:55:16,403
This is, women who are getting off of work
very late." If you look at the locations
1145
00:55:16,403 --> 00:55:17,993
of the apartments stuff like this.
1146
00:55:18,573 --> 00:55:20,963
Well, he walks in front of me
while we're standing there.
1147
00:55:21,163 --> 00:55:21,803
Wow.
1148
00:55:22,173 --> 00:55:23,153
So, yeah.
1149
00:55:23,423 --> 00:55:27,913
So apparently, he had a vehicle
that had come in the car, the
1150
00:55:27,913 --> 00:55:29,623
a complex right in front of us.
1151
00:55:30,253 --> 00:55:30,513
I'm not sure.
1152
00:55:30,513 --> 00:55:32,883
I don't remember if they were right in
front of us or behind us, but we went in.
1153
00:55:33,283 --> 00:55:34,053
We parked.
1154
00:55:34,103 --> 00:55:37,733
That truck went around, and they
were looking at-- The person in
1155
00:55:37,733 --> 00:55:41,353
the truck was looking at us when we
were walking, and I was like, "Eh."
1156
00:55:41,713 --> 00:55:44,133
And one of the analysts who was
with me, sh- two of them were
1157
00:55:44,133 --> 00:55:46,554
senior analysts who had been in
the field for a couple decades.
1158
00:55:46,554 --> 00:55:48,093
One of them was a former officer.
1159
00:55:48,254 --> 00:55:49,913
I called her my work mom, Betty.
1160
00:55:50,403 --> 00:55:54,504
, Her husband, who was an officer, had
been killed in the line of duty, and
1161
00:55:54,504 --> 00:55:57,243
so she was very apprehensive and aware.
1162
00:55:57,373 --> 00:56:00,683
This is my work mom, so she's in
her fifties, and I think I was in
1163
00:56:00,683 --> 00:56:02,373
my twenties, thirties at the time.
1164
00:56:02,373 --> 00:56:02,703
I don't know.
1165
00:56:03,013 --> 00:56:06,333
I was somewhere in that, and
so anyways, we go around.
1166
00:56:06,333 --> 00:56:06,983
I'm showing them.
1167
00:56:06,983 --> 00:56:08,803
I'm like: Look, this is
where he's ditching out.
1168
00:56:08,803 --> 00:56:09,853
This is how this is happening.
1169
00:56:09,853 --> 00:56:12,013
I want them to see on the ground
level exactly what I've been
1170
00:56:12,013 --> 00:56:15,793
trying to explain to these people
in SVIU and 'cause I'm mad.
1171
00:56:15,823 --> 00:56:19,643
I'm at this point, more sexual assaults
are gonna happen because you don't wanna
1172
00:56:19,643 --> 00:56:22,993
look at the subject that I'm telling
you that it is simply because you think
1173
00:56:22,993 --> 00:56:24,563
it's not possible that it's a juvenile.
1174
00:56:25,593 --> 00:56:28,223
And long story short,
he walks in front of me.
1175
00:56:28,373 --> 00:56:31,973
We make eye contact, and we're
talking within like feet of me.
1176
00:56:32,073 --> 00:56:32,883
He looks at me.
1177
00:56:32,953 --> 00:56:33,763
I look at him.
1178
00:56:33,813 --> 00:56:35,353
He takes off jogging.
1179
00:56:35,483 --> 00:56:37,213
I take off jogging right behind him.
1180
00:56:37,603 --> 00:56:38,183
Oh, wow.
1181
00:56:39,453 --> 00:56:42,083
So I wanted to pa-- I
wanted to know who he was.
1182
00:56:42,523 --> 00:56:45,143
And once, so then we
get around the corner.
1183
00:56:45,143 --> 00:56:48,643
He disappears on me, and I couldn't
figure out, and I'm like, I, that I know
1184
00:56:48,643 --> 00:56:51,963
of, he doesn't have any friends in the
front of this unit, so where did he go?
1185
00:56:51,963 --> 00:56:55,668
Well, right about that time, the truck
that had followed us I don't rem- I
1186
00:56:55,668 --> 00:56:57,908
don't... Again, I don't remember if they
were right in front of us or right behind
1187
00:56:57,908 --> 00:57:02,958
us, but that truck peeled out, and I'm
like, "He just got in that damn truck.
1188
00:57:03,318 --> 00:57:04,048
That's what happened.
1189
00:57:04,048 --> 00:57:08,988
He jumped in that truck." So I was, t- now
looking back, we wondered was the subject
1190
00:57:08,988 --> 00:57:13,608
telling him, "Hey, there's some females
here looking at that apartment," the one
1191
00:57:13,608 --> 00:57:17,238
that he had just hit, that the victim
had just moved out and it was vacant.
1192
00:57:17,298 --> 00:57:21,388
And so at this point,
Betty's screaming at me.
1193
00:57:21,418 --> 00:57:26,128
She's, panicking because I took
off, and my work aunt, who's also in
1194
00:57:26,128 --> 00:57:29,518
her 50s, in high heels because she
dresses like Audrey Hepburn, like
1195
00:57:29,588 --> 00:57:31,168
it was just, it was a whole thing.
1196
00:57:31,168 --> 00:57:34,138
And then my poor young apprentice,
who's in her early 20s, is "Oh my
1197
00:57:34,138 --> 00:57:35,468
God. What is this woman doing?"
1198
00:57:35,958 --> 00:57:38,388
So we jump in my vehicle,
and we go looking.
1199
00:57:38,468 --> 00:57:39,228
I went looking for him.
1200
00:57:39,228 --> 00:57:42,398
I was like, "It's him." "I'm telling
you, that is the kid I've been saying
1201
00:57:42,398 --> 00:57:46,948
it is." We get around like a block or
two over, there's a shopping center,
1202
00:57:47,128 --> 00:57:49,368
and I'm like, "Where did that truck go?
1203
00:57:49,528 --> 00:57:52,508
That truck came in here for
a specific reason and popped
1204
00:57:52,508 --> 00:57:53,558
out at the right reason."
1205
00:57:53,928 --> 00:57:58,498
Well, he pops out between the fence and
those back sides of those buildings and
1206
00:57:58,498 --> 00:57:59,888
starts walking through the parking lot.
1207
00:57:59,888 --> 00:58:02,678
So I parked, and we watch him.
1208
00:58:02,708 --> 00:58:05,688
That truck that had peeled out had
gone and sat in that parking lot.
1209
00:58:05,718 --> 00:58:08,728
He ran from... Well, I'll say ran for me.
1210
00:58:08,758 --> 00:58:11,428
He took off running, and I went after
him, however you wanna perceive that.
1211
00:58:11,458 --> 00:58:14,328
He ran those couple blocks, walked
through that parking lot, and
1212
00:58:14,328 --> 00:58:15,718
went and got in that same truck.
1213
00:58:15,818 --> 00:58:19,168
I took a picture of him and I called
him Smurf shoes, blue shoes, 'cause he
1214
00:58:19,168 --> 00:58:21,058
had on these bright blue Smurf shoes.
1215
00:58:21,468 --> 00:58:21,598
Sure.
1216
00:58:21,818 --> 00:58:23,588
So we ended up, we started
following the truck.
1217
00:58:23,588 --> 00:58:25,708
At that point, Betty's screaming at me.
1218
00:58:25,838 --> 00:58:30,298
She's "We're not doing this. We need
to go back. This is dangerous." And I
1219
00:58:30,298 --> 00:58:31,908
knew, and it's, I know it sounds crazy.
1220
00:58:31,908 --> 00:58:34,138
Now the following the truck, yes,
was dangerous, but here's what I
1221
00:58:34,138 --> 00:58:35,608
knew about the subject at the time.
1222
00:58:36,148 --> 00:58:42,358
Every case, any female that in any way
remotely put up resistance to him, he
1223
00:58:42,358 --> 00:58:46,633
bolted He couldn't handle any form,
even when he had a knife in a few of
1224
00:58:46,633 --> 00:58:50,813
the instances 'cause it progressed, if
he did not have complete control and
1225
00:58:50,813 --> 00:58:53,073
compliance, he freaked out and fled.
1226
00:58:53,223 --> 00:58:58,113
So, that told me, me chasing him, yes,
not the brightest idea in the world.
1227
00:58:58,203 --> 00:59:02,073
But I knew- Yeah ... at the end
of the day, if there's any form of
1228
00:59:02,073 --> 00:59:03,983
resistance, he's not gonna fight me.
1229
00:59:03,983 --> 00:59:05,243
He's going to freak out.
1230
00:59:05,273 --> 00:59:06,153
He's going to run.
1231
00:59:06,153 --> 00:59:09,593
He doesn't have the constitution
to stand up to somebody who's
1232
00:59:09,593 --> 00:59:11,233
in any way standing up to him.
1233
00:59:11,933 --> 00:59:14,443
So I took the picture, we
went back to headquarters.
1234
00:59:14,593 --> 00:59:18,923
My boss at that point was like, "So where
you been?" And I'm like, "So what had
1235
00:59:18,923 --> 00:59:23,893
happened was we went out there to look
at where this was so that I could explain
1236
00:59:23,893 --> 00:59:26,773
to them and show them what's gonna happen
and where I think he was gonna hit next,
1237
00:59:26,773 --> 00:59:28,743
and he walked in front of me, and-"
1238
00:59:29,463 --> 00:59:30,423
I explain all this.
1239
00:59:30,423 --> 00:59:36,183
My supervisor is mortified, and I'm like,
"I was just doing a site assessment, and
1240
00:59:36,183 --> 00:59:38,653
where I thought he was gonna hit next,
I didn't think the man was actually
1241
00:59:38,653 --> 00:59:42,543
going to walk in front of me." Long
story short, they didn't listen to me
1242
00:59:42,993 --> 00:59:44,533
which is, that's how this game goes.
1243
00:59:44,533 --> 00:59:45,943
Sometimes you don't get listened to.
1244
00:59:46,343 --> 00:59:50,983
He proceeded to assault for an
additional ... That was in January.
1245
00:59:51,033 --> 00:59:53,263
He was arrested in June.
1246
00:59:53,423 --> 00:59:54,643
June 8th, I wanna say.
1247
00:59:55,043 --> 00:59:55,713
Something like that.
1248
00:59:55,713 --> 00:59:56,313
June 30th.
1249
00:59:56,383 --> 00:59:56,753
June 8th.
1250
00:59:57,233 --> 00:59:58,263
June 8th, yes.
1251
00:59:58,703 --> 01:00:02,383
And I- one of the lead detectives,
like I said, the one that I got
1252
01:00:02,483 --> 01:00:06,263
originally we both got pushed off the
case to let the other ones handle it.
1253
01:00:06,293 --> 01:00:09,273
He called me, he said, "They've
got me out here sitting to do a DNA
1254
01:00:09,273 --> 01:00:12,673
pickup." And I was like, "Really?" He
said, "It's the kid you said it was."
1255
01:00:12,883 --> 01:00:12,993
Oh.
1256
01:00:13,263 --> 01:00:15,193
And I said, "Are you kidding
me?" He said, "No." And he told
1257
01:00:15,193 --> 01:00:17,663
me where he was and where they
were waiting to collect the DNA.
1258
01:00:17,663 --> 01:00:19,543
They were waiting on discarded stuff.
1259
01:00:19,843 --> 01:00:23,343
A- and sure enough, within
24 hours they had a DNA hit.
1260
01:00:23,373 --> 01:00:27,233
It was him, and he had been offending
when he was arrested I think he
1261
01:00:27,363 --> 01:00:29,293
had, was getting ready to turn 18.
1262
01:00:29,293 --> 01:00:31,113
He had started offending at 15, 16.
1263
01:00:31,573 --> 01:00:33,733
And I didn't get any
recognition on that case.
1264
01:00:33,893 --> 01:00:36,893
And again, it's like I said,
it's not, it can't be about that.
1265
01:00:37,003 --> 01:00:43,533
I was so angry that in my opinion women
were sexually assaulted because you
1266
01:00:43,533 --> 01:00:47,623
didn't want to listen to me because I
wasn't the primary analyst and because
1267
01:00:47,623 --> 01:00:50,843
I was telling you that I thought
you needed to look at this juvenile.
1268
01:00:50,973 --> 01:00:53,863
And in your mind, there's no way
a juvenile could have done this.
1269
01:00:54,053 --> 01:00:54,343
Yeah.
1270
01:00:54,543 --> 01:00:55,863
So that, that was a hard one.
1271
01:00:56,073 --> 01:00:56,553
Yeah.
1272
01:00:56,783 --> 01:01:00,723
No, that, that is fasta- when you first
said that you were doing a site visit,
1273
01:01:00,723 --> 01:01:02,973
I assumed you went with an officer.
1274
01:01:03,303 --> 01:01:03,363
No.
1275
01:01:03,363 --> 01:01:06,833
I didn't know you went
with three other analysts.
1276
01:01:06,833 --> 01:01:07,273
Correct.
1277
01:01:07,273 --> 01:01:09,543
That
1278
01:01:09,543 --> 01:01:10,113
is correct.
1279
01:01:10,113 --> 01:01:11,223
In my personal vehicle.
1280
01:01:11,223 --> 01:01:15,473
Again, looking back it wasn't- but it
wasn't also, it also wasn't a bad area.
1281
01:01:15,503 --> 01:01:18,653
It was broad daylight, we're in the
medical center, it's a nice area.
1282
01:01:18,653 --> 01:01:22,783
It was, there was a lot of things and
I did get an accolade or accommodate,
1283
01:01:22,843 --> 01:01:26,043
some recognition from my supervisor
after that because he was like, "You,
1284
01:01:26,073 --> 01:01:28,923
this, you really did deal with this,
and this should have not happened."
1285
01:01:28,953 --> 01:01:32,373
And I'm like, "I know it shouldn't have,"
but again, it's not about receiving
1286
01:01:32,373 --> 01:01:34,173
the award or, any of those things.
1287
01:01:34,203 --> 01:01:35,863
It is, I was angry.
1288
01:01:35,983 --> 01:01:39,853
I was pretty angry at that point
because I felt like there was
1289
01:01:40,063 --> 01:01:42,413
people who were victimized who
shouldn't have been victimized simply
1290
01:01:42,413 --> 01:01:43,653
because you didn't wanna listen.
1291
01:01:43,653 --> 01:01:43,713
Yeah.
1292
01:01:44,093 --> 01:01:47,393
You didn't wanna consider
an alternative hypothesis.
1293
01:01:47,523 --> 01:01:51,413
You stuck to that story and or
the one that, that you thought.
1294
01:01:52,163 --> 01:01:53,273
So it was- Do
1295
01:01:53,273 --> 01:01:58,033
you know how many cases were in between
January- Six ... when you saw him?
1296
01:01:58,033 --> 01:01:58,563
Six.
1297
01:01:58,933 --> 01:01:59,283
Six.
1298
01:01:59,603 --> 01:02:02,373
I know exactly how many it was,
'cause I have said that there are six
1299
01:02:02,373 --> 01:02:03,863
victims who shouldn't have existed.
1300
01:02:04,093 --> 01:02:04,763
Oh, it's awful.
1301
01:02:04,853 --> 01:02:06,873
So yep it was not good.
1302
01:02:07,073 --> 01:02:09,323
That that one, that case
jaded me quite a bit.
1303
01:02:09,373 --> 01:02:13,313
Again, not because I didn't get
recognition or anything like that, but
1304
01:02:13,313 --> 01:02:15,003
a simple it shouldn't have happened.
1305
01:02:15,263 --> 01:02:15,493
Yeah.
1306
01:02:16,103 --> 01:02:21,483
It sh- and when you do everything you can
and you present the data, you present the,
1307
01:02:21,513 --> 01:02:26,923
not only the data analysis, but I'm giving
you full-fledged actionable intelligence.
1308
01:02:26,923 --> 01:02:29,903
Here's the person, here are the,
identified, here's the social
1309
01:02:29,903 --> 01:02:32,483
network analysis that has been
done on these individuals.
1310
01:02:32,483 --> 01:02:34,533
Here's how he's disappearing
into these apartments, and
1311
01:02:34,533 --> 01:02:35,963
our response times are so low.
1312
01:02:35,963 --> 01:02:37,133
We're saturating areas.
1313
01:02:37,133 --> 01:02:40,803
We're doing all ... I gave you
the, quote unquote, "filling
1314
01:02:41,013 --> 01:02:42,683
of the intelligence gaps."
1315
01:02:42,843 --> 01:02:44,983
All I need you to do is
go out and ID this kid.
1316
01:02:44,983 --> 01:02:49,803
And what ended up happening was I f-
I found out that it wasn't even my
1317
01:02:49,803 --> 01:02:52,263
recommendation that they look at this kid.
1318
01:02:52,263 --> 01:02:58,173
His name came up because a officer who
was familiar with one of the apartment
1319
01:02:58,173 --> 01:03:03,233
complexes, if had identified the subject
and told told SVIU or whomever, "Hey,
1320
01:03:03,233 --> 01:03:06,293
you need to look at this kid," 'cause he
had done something like slap somebody on
1321
01:03:06,293 --> 01:03:10,543
the butt at, while playing basketball,
like some woman that was just out there.
1322
01:03:10,543 --> 01:03:13,793
He assaulted her by slapping her on
the butt and making an inappropriate
1323
01:03:13,793 --> 01:03:15,663
comment, something to that nature.
1324
01:03:15,993 --> 01:03:19,593
And so that officer who responded to that
call for service or whatever said, "Hey,
1325
01:03:19,593 --> 01:03:23,573
you might wanna look at this kid." So
it wasn't even my recommend- It wasn't
1326
01:03:23,573 --> 01:03:25,623
even the picture that I took of him.
1327
01:03:25,763 --> 01:03:30,273
I took a picture of him in
that parking lot, identifiable.
1328
01:03:30,703 --> 01:03:36,533
It wasn't any of that led to them
deciding to do a DNA analysis.
1329
01:03:36,563 --> 01:03:40,343
It was because of an officer, and
it was just like, I don't know
1330
01:03:40,343 --> 01:03:41,943
if it's because I was an analyst.
1331
01:03:41,973 --> 01:03:43,453
I don't know if it's because I was female.
1332
01:03:43,533 --> 01:03:46,383
I think it was a combination of
a lot of things which included
1333
01:03:46,383 --> 01:03:49,763
predominantly, unfortunately, the
politics of I was not the analyst that
1334
01:03:49,763 --> 01:03:56,203
originally assigned to it, and there
were other extra office relationships
1335
01:03:56,843 --> 01:03:58,993
that probably played a part in that.
1336
01:03:59,493 --> 01:04:01,013
And so it- That's,
1337
01:04:01,013 --> 01:04:02,103
that's a real thing, too.
1338
01:04:03,113 --> 01:04:03,153
It
1339
01:04:03,153 --> 01:04:03,803
is.
1340
01:04:03,803 --> 01:04:04,323
For those
1341
01:04:04,323 --> 01:04:04,423
that
1342
01:04:04,423 --> 01:04:07,693
maybe- Unfortunately, it is ... new
to the profession that's a thing, too.
1343
01:04:08,003 --> 01:04:08,033
Oh,
1344
01:04:08,033 --> 01:04:08,563
man.
1345
01:04:08,563 --> 01:04:13,093
, It is unfortunate, but that was ... Yeah,
that, that case to this day every
1346
01:04:13,093 --> 01:04:16,353
June comes around, I wanna say it's
June 8th, every June comes around and
1347
01:04:16,353 --> 01:04:19,913
I'm like, I get a little bit angry
again because, again, I know there's
1348
01:04:19,973 --> 01:04:22,963
victims out there that shouldn't,
they shouldn't have been victims.
1349
01:04:23,163 --> 01:04:26,533
And it, in my opinion, could have
been preventable had we just looked
1350
01:04:26,573 --> 01:04:30,693
at, had anybody just taken the time
to look at the kid from when I said
1351
01:04:30,693 --> 01:04:34,283
in January, "This is your kid, and
this is why, the Texas Department of
1352
01:04:34,283 --> 01:04:38,998
Public Safety's suspect sketch does
not look like him." There's a reason.
1353
01:04:40,408 --> 01:04:40,468
Yeah.
1354
01:04:41,288 --> 01:04:41,408
Yeah.
1355
01:04:46,858 --> 01:04:51,468
This is Robert Aboumitri, a
retired analyst with the RCMP.
1356
01:04:51,798 --> 01:04:56,378
If I have an advice for analyst, one
advice, , tell the story of the data.
1357
01:04:56,408 --> 01:05:01,748
Do not tell the story of somebody who
wants a story to be told, even if it's
1358
01:05:01,748 --> 01:05:06,648
your boss, even if it's the chief of
police and they tell you to show something
1359
01:05:06,648 --> 01:05:08,958
and as a result of your analysis.
1360
01:05:08,958 --> 01:05:09,548
Do not.
1361
01:05:10,208 --> 01:05:12,578
Stay true to what's in front of you.
1362
01:05:13,138 --> 01:05:18,528
Let the data, , speak to you, and
you be the voice of that data.
1363
01:05:19,258 --> 01:05:20,538
My name is Megan Cruz.
1364
01:05:20,678 --> 01:05:24,248
, I'm the crime analysis supervisor
at Richmond Police, and my public
1365
01:05:24,248 --> 01:05:30,108
service announcement is knowing how
much, , the data and in- the information
1366
01:05:30,108 --> 01:05:34,708
that crime analysts touch, , applies
to everything a department does.
1367
01:05:35,048 --> 01:05:40,308
Everything from media responses
to patrol allocation to solving
1368
01:05:40,308 --> 01:05:46,498
crimes to, , overtime allocation,
that commanders really should be
1369
01:05:46,858 --> 01:05:50,898
tapping their crime analysts before
they make any kind of decisions.
1370
01:05:50,898 --> 01:05:53,868
Everything should be
evidence-based and data-driven.
1371
01:05:54,778 --> 01:05:56,388
Hello, my name is Greg Thomas.
1372
01:05:56,478 --> 01:06:00,958
One phrase that annoys me that
analysts say is that they say that...
1373
01:06:01,258 --> 01:06:05,518
When they introduce themselves, they
say, "I am just an analyst." You should
1374
01:06:05,518 --> 01:06:09,748
be proud of your profession and the
field , and the job that you do, and
1375
01:06:09,748 --> 01:06:11,838
don't say you're just an analyst.
1376
01:06:16,887 --> 01:06:20,807
it's kinda hard to segue away from that,
but I- ... I guess I'm just gonna do it.
1377
01:06:20,917 --> 01:06:24,757
But- I left ... so then from there
you, so you end up leaving the
1378
01:06:24,757 --> 01:06:29,357
fusion center and actually get out
of analysis and become an instructor.
1379
01:06:29,487 --> 01:06:29,717
Correct.
1380
01:06:29,747 --> 01:06:32,327
Was- Yeah, so- what was
the reason for the decision
1381
01:06:32,327 --> 01:06:32,827
for that?
1382
01:06:32,827 --> 01:06:33,877
That, it was a threefold.
1383
01:06:33,877 --> 01:06:39,537
So we had one of our detectives was
and I'll say it bluntly, was executed
1384
01:06:39,657 --> 01:06:41,367
out front of our headquarters.
1385
01:06:41,367 --> 01:06:42,397
That was Ben Marconi.
1386
01:06:43,037 --> 01:06:49,167
And so that happened, and then the
whole situation happened with the
1387
01:06:49,167 --> 01:06:53,647
serial subject, and then we had another
officer killed in the line of duty.
1388
01:06:53,647 --> 01:06:56,717
I was coming out of the Texas Gang
Investigators Conference, and we
1389
01:06:56,717 --> 01:06:59,967
had a call drop, and it was two
officers shot during a traffic stop.
1390
01:07:00,497 --> 01:07:02,157
And it was just the combination.
1391
01:07:02,167 --> 01:07:05,157
Really of, I coulda dealt with a lot.
1392
01:07:05,357 --> 01:07:06,887
I was so angry.
1393
01:07:06,927 --> 01:07:10,267
I know it sounds ridiculous,
but I was so angry over office
1394
01:07:10,267 --> 01:07:14,167
politics being more important
than six victims being victimized.
1395
01:07:14,387 --> 01:07:17,897
And then I was already, I was,
like, questioning why did I even
1396
01:07:17,897 --> 01:07:21,997
go into this field because I, like
I've said, and I'll say it again,
1397
01:07:22,667 --> 01:07:24,177
integrity has to be number one.
1398
01:07:24,317 --> 01:07:28,237
And this can't be about names and
plaques and awards, and it has
1399
01:07:28,237 --> 01:07:32,367
to be about at the end of the day
preventing crime where we can prevent
1400
01:07:32,367 --> 01:07:35,637
it, taking offenders off the streets
when we can take them off the streets.
1401
01:07:35,637 --> 01:07:38,497
And it doesn't matter who does
it as long as it's done right,
1402
01:07:38,747 --> 01:07:40,367
done ethically, and done quickly.
1403
01:07:40,477 --> 01:07:45,537
And so when office politics plays a
part in that, I just, I had enough.
1404
01:07:45,567 --> 01:07:50,417
And then when Miguel was killed, it
was just like, "What are we doing?
1405
01:07:50,867 --> 01:07:55,397
What am I doing, and why am I here?"
So I ended up going to teach and I did
1406
01:07:55,397 --> 01:07:59,117
that for a year and a half while at
the same time I was driving from the
1407
01:07:59,117 --> 01:08:03,587
Austin area down to San Antonio this
entire time, which is quite a trek.
1408
01:08:03,587 --> 01:08:05,607
It was, like, 72 miles
or something one way.
1409
01:08:05,687 --> 01:08:08,317
And so- Oh, wow ... I told myself,
I was like, "I'm gonna wait for an
1410
01:08:08,317 --> 01:08:11,587
Austin position to open up." I wanted
to move up into that area anyways.
1411
01:08:11,637 --> 01:08:14,307
I really wanted to get out of San Antonio.
1412
01:08:14,307 --> 01:08:15,697
I had been followed home.
1413
01:08:15,917 --> 01:08:17,547
I had bricks thrown at my window.
1414
01:08:17,547 --> 01:08:19,457
I had my vehicle shot at.
1415
01:08:19,547 --> 01:08:22,027
... The brick thing that happened, I
was coming out of headquarters.
1416
01:08:22,057 --> 01:08:24,507
And so there was a lot of things
that I was just like, it was
1417
01:08:24,507 --> 01:08:26,097
just a, "I need to take a break."
1418
01:08:26,397 --> 01:08:26,617
Yeah.
1419
01:08:26,677 --> 01:08:28,787
And I'll wait for an
Austin position to open.
1420
01:08:28,787 --> 01:08:30,777
I went to go teach for a year.
1421
01:08:31,247 --> 01:08:35,477
That was my objective, was to teach for a
year until an Austin position opened up.
1422
01:08:35,577 --> 01:08:41,727
And then I got pregnant with twins,
and so that- ... turned into oh,
1423
01:08:41,727 --> 01:08:45,057
well, I guess I'm not going to go into
the field again right this moment.
1424
01:08:45,277 --> 01:08:45,517
Yeah.
1425
01:08:45,587 --> 01:08:48,637
And so I ended up teaching
an extra semester.
1426
01:08:48,977 --> 01:08:50,367
And then yeah.
1427
01:08:50,687 --> 01:08:53,517
And then I left the field for five
years when the twins were born.
1428
01:08:53,667 --> 01:08:54,107
So yeah,
1429
01:08:54,177 --> 01:08:59,797
.
Talk a little bit just about the five-year
gap be- and just what you learned through
1430
01:08:59,797 --> 01:09:05,767
that whole process, and again, maybe some
advice for those that are going through
1431
01:09:05,767 --> 01:09:10,767
something similar of being away from the
field or out of work for a little bit
1432
01:09:10,767 --> 01:09:12,787
and then trying to make that comeback?
1433
01:09:12,947 --> 01:09:14,047
Well, there's a few things.
1434
01:09:14,157 --> 01:09:16,987
I remember when I went y- the,
when the twins were born, it
1435
01:09:16,987 --> 01:09:18,077
was only supposed to be a year.
1436
01:09:18,187 --> 01:09:21,277
I was only supposed to teach for a year,
wait for an Austin position to open.
1437
01:09:21,277 --> 01:09:24,827
There were a few agencies who said, "Hey,
we've got positions coming open. We really
1438
01:09:24,827 --> 01:09:27,827
want you to, obviously you have to go
through the application process, but they
1439
01:09:27,827 --> 01:09:29,077
were like, "We really want you to apply.
1440
01:09:29,077 --> 01:09:31,757
We want you to come up here." I said,
"Okay." And then getting pregnant with
1441
01:09:31,757 --> 01:09:34,547
the twins, and then the twins were
born premature, and it was like, okay,
1442
01:09:34,547 --> 01:09:35,847
well, I'm just gonna take a year.
1443
01:09:36,187 --> 01:09:39,657
And, for other reasons, I
ended up being out for five
1444
01:09:39,657 --> 01:09:41,207
years, ... because of the twins.
1445
01:09:41,417 --> 01:09:44,077
And I didn't know if I was gonna go back.
1446
01:09:44,377 --> 01:09:46,447
And it was mainly because
the twins are disabled.
1447
01:09:46,497 --> 01:09:50,327
And so it was one of those I don't
know when, what that looks like.
1448
01:09:50,417 --> 01:09:51,887
I know I love my field.
1449
01:09:52,137 --> 01:09:55,707
I know that I continued to help
on cases numerous different
1450
01:09:55,707 --> 01:09:57,567
agencies, local, state, and federal.
1451
01:09:57,997 --> 01:10:00,117
Actually two other governments as well.
1452
01:10:00,397 --> 01:10:05,237
The Royal Royal Mounted Police and
Scotland Yard, interestingly enough.
1453
01:10:05,437 --> 01:10:05,567
Nice.
1454
01:10:06,107 --> 01:10:08,727
People who had reached out to me who
said, "Hey, can you help on this?"
1455
01:10:08,727 --> 01:10:13,817
And I'm like- "yeah, I can." So, the
biggest advice I have is that you
1456
01:10:13,817 --> 01:10:14,927
never know when something can happen.
1457
01:10:14,927 --> 01:10:17,277
You could be employed today and
something happen and you are
1458
01:10:17,277 --> 01:10:18,757
suddenly out of the field tomorrow.
1459
01:10:18,847 --> 01:10:22,187
So- Yeah ... and you may not know
if or when you're gonna go back.
1460
01:10:22,187 --> 01:10:24,077
You may think you're never gonna
go back, or you may think, "I'm
1461
01:10:24,077 --> 01:10:26,737
gonna go back tomorrow," and
you, it ends up being five years.
1462
01:10:27,147 --> 01:10:27,327
Yeah.
1463
01:10:27,527 --> 01:10:31,967
I did maintain my, a lot of my
professional relationships my mentors
1464
01:10:31,967 --> 01:10:35,167
the officers, agents, and analysts
that I had worked closely with.
1465
01:10:35,517 --> 01:10:37,007
I also have this weird policy.
1466
01:10:37,627 --> 01:10:40,357
I don't befriend people at work usually.
1467
01:10:40,627 --> 01:10:44,277
I keep the work at work and,
office stays at the office, and
1468
01:10:44,277 --> 01:10:45,947
personal relationships outside.
1469
01:10:46,007 --> 01:10:50,777
And that's just a, it's an in- a- and
I'm not saying that people that do
1470
01:10:50,807 --> 01:10:52,427
mix those two don't have integrity.
1471
01:10:52,507 --> 01:10:56,757
I just like to be very cautious,
especially as a female- ... working in
1472
01:10:56,757 --> 01:11:02,647
a male-dominated industry, that there
is in no way a pers- even perception of
1473
01:11:02,647 --> 01:11:07,887
any inappropriate or- extracurricular
activities or anything like that.
1474
01:11:07,927 --> 01:11:07,987
Yeah.
1475
01:11:08,257 --> 01:11:10,417
So I did maintain certain relationships.
1476
01:11:10,417 --> 01:11:13,887
Like I said, Jason's like my brother,
and that had been going on since
1477
01:11:13,937 --> 01:11:18,107
OIG, when I was with them, and
he mentored me in a lot of ways.
1478
01:11:18,757 --> 01:11:23,097
So keep your personal, relationships with
those that you were actually close with.
1479
01:11:23,257 --> 01:11:28,597
To this day have I did have them in a a
folder, but I keep all my business cards.
1480
01:11:28,927 --> 01:11:29,037
Yeah.
1481
01:11:29,147 --> 01:11:33,497
And I still to this day have business
cards from, I'm not even joking, 2006.
1482
01:11:33,527 --> 01:11:37,767
So I take them, I write on the back
where I met the person, when, all of
1483
01:11:37,767 --> 01:11:41,237
those things so that I remember, because
oftentimes it's just a card I collect.
1484
01:11:41,607 --> 01:11:43,927
So I... Continue with your relationships.
1485
01:11:44,247 --> 01:11:46,157
Keep your professional
memberships if you can.
1486
01:11:46,197 --> 01:11:47,087
I didn't do that.
1487
01:11:47,297 --> 01:11:49,687
I let those slide because I was
like, "I don't know if I'm gonna
1488
01:11:49,687 --> 01:11:53,207
go back into the field, when I'm
gonna go back in the field." So keep
1489
01:11:53,207 --> 01:11:55,057
your pr- professional memberships.
1490
01:11:55,217 --> 01:11:56,697
Keep up with your associates.
1491
01:11:56,777 --> 01:11:58,827
I recently got a LinkedIn.
1492
01:11:58,977 --> 01:12:01,057
I did have one many moons ago.
1493
01:12:01,567 --> 01:12:03,287
Keep that up if you have one.
1494
01:12:03,667 --> 01:12:07,437
Move with the assumption that you're going
to go back, and so you want to- Oh, okay
1495
01:12:07,437 --> 01:12:13,797
... skip as little amount of time as possible,
and the best way to do that is To keep
1496
01:12:13,877 --> 01:12:17,957
facilitating the certain aspects as if you
were in the field, because you don't know.
1497
01:12:18,597 --> 01:12:20,127
It could be a month,
it could be five years.
1498
01:12:20,357 --> 01:12:23,037
So that would be the biggest thing
is .. even when you think it's gonna
1499
01:12:23,037 --> 01:12:25,947
be a while, don't just let things
slide, because you never know.
1500
01:12:25,947 --> 01:12:25,987
Yeah.
1501
01:12:26,037 --> 01:12:26,747
No, that's a good-
1502
01:12:26,747 --> 01:12:30,067
And when you decide, yeah, when
you do decide to come back, you
1503
01:12:30,067 --> 01:12:31,587
still have some foundation there.
1504
01:12:31,617 --> 01:12:34,697
When I came back to Hays County
Sheriff's Office, everybody was
1505
01:12:34,697 --> 01:12:36,317
like, "Hays County Sheriff's Office?
1506
01:12:36,317 --> 01:12:36,917
Are you kidding me?
1507
01:12:36,917 --> 01:12:39,707
You're gonna go back to a small agency
after everything that you've done, and
1508
01:12:39,707 --> 01:12:42,747
blah, blah, blah, blah." And I was like,
"Well, I had the twins," and I'm like,
1509
01:12:42,787 --> 01:12:44,457
"I have to stay close to where I live.
1510
01:12:44,457 --> 01:12:46,527
I've got small children,"
all of these things.
1511
01:12:46,527 --> 01:12:48,787
It's not like my daughter who
was, like, all over the place.
1512
01:12:48,847 --> 01:12:48,907
Yeah.
1513
01:12:48,907 --> 01:12:50,567
That kid went to five elementary schools.
1514
01:12:50,567 --> 01:12:52,597
We moved and I was working
and all the things.
1515
01:12:53,477 --> 01:12:53,557
Yeah.
1516
01:12:53,607 --> 01:12:55,017
Twins are a whole different story.
1517
01:12:55,067 --> 01:13:01,077
And, it's one of those where I also
was well aware that I was underpaid.
1518
01:13:01,427 --> 01:13:05,387
I was well aware that it was ... And
it wasn't in my mind a step back.
1519
01:13:05,427 --> 01:13:06,737
I love working patrol.
1520
01:13:06,797 --> 01:13:09,437
I know a lot of people wanna
go into investigative analysis,
1521
01:13:09,437 --> 01:13:12,267
and there's nothing wrong with
that, but I also love patrol.
1522
01:13:12,297 --> 01:13:13,377
It is bread and butter.
1523
01:13:13,657 --> 01:13:15,887
It is where the
intelligence information is.
1524
01:13:15,887 --> 01:13:17,017
It is on the streets.
1525
01:13:17,047 --> 01:13:18,687
It is not behind a computer screen.
1526
01:13:19,157 --> 01:13:19,247
Yeah.
1527
01:13:19,357 --> 01:13:22,737
I think there's also a lot of people that
I see out there, and I won't just say see.
1528
01:13:22,937 --> 01:13:26,617
I get contacted quite a bit on,
on LinkedIn- Yeah ... particularly
1529
01:13:26,617 --> 01:13:30,807
from college kids or those new to
the industry who want advice on
1530
01:13:30,807 --> 01:13:32,767
how to get into the field and do
this, that, and the other thing.
1531
01:13:33,137 --> 01:13:35,377
And that's like I tell them,
"Start where you can start."
1532
01:13:35,687 --> 01:13:35,867
Yeah.
1533
01:13:35,997 --> 01:13:39,067
And everywhere has something for you.
1534
01:13:39,227 --> 01:13:40,997
You will learn something.
1535
01:13:41,187 --> 01:13:41,347
Yeah.
1536
01:13:41,347 --> 01:13:42,487
You will find something.
1537
01:13:42,487 --> 01:13:45,977
And so when I came back to Hays
County Sheriff's Office, the sheriff
1538
01:13:45,977 --> 01:13:47,637
that's there now is a new sheriff.
1539
01:13:47,637 --> 01:13:49,967
We had Sheriff Cutler who
had been there for some time.
1540
01:13:49,967 --> 01:13:53,937
Then now there's Anthony Hipolito, who I
think is a great sheriff, ... personally.
1541
01:13:54,587 --> 01:13:55,797
And I think he's a good man.
1542
01:13:55,797 --> 01:13:57,077
I think he's trying to do good things.
1543
01:13:57,297 --> 01:13:59,607
It's nothing against,
the sheriff's office.
1544
01:13:59,637 --> 01:14:00,417
It's a sheriff's office.
1545
01:14:00,417 --> 01:14:01,217
They're small, of course.
1546
01:14:01,217 --> 01:14:02,857
It's not the seventh
largest city in the US.
1547
01:14:02,887 --> 01:14:03,647
Of course it's not.
1548
01:14:04,117 --> 01:14:04,187
Yeah.
1549
01:14:04,237 --> 01:14:07,067
It's not apples to apples, but at the
end of the day, you're still doing the
1550
01:14:07,067 --> 01:14:08,607
same job, just on a different scale.
1551
01:14:08,787 --> 01:14:09,097
Yeah.
1552
01:14:09,452 --> 01:14:13,372
No, that, that's a really good point
with your advice of just get in where
1553
01:14:13,372 --> 01:14:17,322
you can get in because there's been
plenty of analysts on this show that
1554
01:14:17,322 --> 01:14:24,802
started out as admin assistant or
911 dispatcher or records, or just
1555
01:14:24,802 --> 01:14:28,512
getting their foot in the door in
terms of inside the police department
1556
01:14:28,512 --> 01:14:30,572
and working their way to analysis
1557
01:14:30,732 --> 01:14:33,542
.
Yeah, and that's the difference is
that I think what a lot of people don't
1558
01:14:33,542 --> 01:14:39,582
understand is that the more the analyst
has become a buzz word and every agency
1559
01:14:39,582 --> 01:14:42,282
suddenly wants to have an analyst,
people are- Yeah ... being taken out
1560
01:14:42,282 --> 01:14:46,602
of secretarial positions and being told
that they're an analyst, but they're not
1561
01:14:46,602 --> 01:14:48,292
given the direction in how to do that.
1562
01:14:48,292 --> 01:14:50,632
They're like, "Okay, I'm an analyst now.
Now what do you want me to do?" Yeah.
1563
01:14:51,142 --> 01:14:52,372
And so you do.
1564
01:14:52,372 --> 01:14:54,622
If y- this is a very competitive field.
1565
01:14:55,032 --> 01:14:58,532
The jobs are exploding in a lot
of ways, but there's also so much
1566
01:14:58,532 --> 01:15:02,422
competition because there's so many
people, particularly those that have
1567
01:15:02,532 --> 01:15:05,512
entered the field in alternative
ways, like what you're talking about,
1568
01:15:05,512 --> 01:15:10,342
where- I was a dispatcher and because
I was doing, very similar to real-time
1569
01:15:10,342 --> 01:15:14,302
crime center analysis, now I'm working
as a crime analyst with my agency.
1570
01:15:14,302 --> 01:15:18,642
And so I think there's something to be
said for just get your foot in the door.
1571
01:15:18,922 --> 01:15:19,142
Yeah.
1572
01:15:19,232 --> 01:15:24,342
Get in the door somewhere and start
building your skill set, and when
1573
01:15:24,342 --> 01:15:27,472
the time comes if you're one of those
people that has to take time out of
1574
01:15:27,472 --> 01:15:31,902
the field for whatever reason, don't
ever turn your nose up at something.
1575
01:15:31,962 --> 01:15:35,982
If there's not an ethical issue, if
there's not an integrity issue, if there's
1576
01:15:36,012 --> 01:15:39,502
not something with that agency that
makes you go, "I don't want any part of
1577
01:15:39,502 --> 01:15:43,952
that," and I have said no to agencies
for that reason actually if that's not
1578
01:15:43,952 --> 01:15:45,562
there, you're gonna learn something-
1579
01:15:45,952 --> 01:15:46,122
Yeah.
1580
01:15:46,372 --> 01:15:46,602
Thanks
1581
01:15:46,602 --> 01:15:47,812
...
if you're willing to go seek it.
1582
01:15:48,052 --> 01:15:48,282
Yeah.
1583
01:15:48,502 --> 01:15:48,932
All right.
1584
01:15:49,092 --> 01:15:51,282
Well, hey, let's let's move on then.
1585
01:15:51,282 --> 01:15:56,672
Let's... I do wanna talk about IALEIA,
and as I mentioned in your intro, you
1586
01:15:56,732 --> 01:16:02,462
are the Strategic Outreach Committee
chair, and it's my understanding
1587
01:16:02,462 --> 01:16:04,752
that is a committee that you pitched.
1588
01:16:04,752 --> 01:16:05,552
Is that correct?
1589
01:16:05,732 --> 01:16:06,482
It is.
1590
01:16:06,682 --> 01:16:10,652
And so I... There was
elections that were gearing up.
1591
01:16:10,682 --> 01:16:11,462
This was 2024.
1592
01:16:12,082 --> 01:16:13,742
Yes, I have to think.
1593
01:16:13,742 --> 01:16:18,532
So 2024, and one of the things that
I noticed was is that i- I was lucky.
1594
01:16:18,682 --> 01:16:22,882
So Steve Young- ... who is the mentor
I had in college he's deceased now, but
1595
01:16:22,972 --> 01:16:24,862
he had actually told me about IALEIA.
1596
01:16:24,862 --> 01:16:28,132
So when I entered the field- ... I
felt lucky, like I had this.
1597
01:16:28,132 --> 01:16:30,272
I assumed other people knew
about it, and they didn't.
1598
01:16:30,882 --> 01:16:34,712
There seems to be a discrepancy
between what colleges are teaching
1599
01:16:34,712 --> 01:16:37,332
and what actual analysts are doing
in their- Yeah ... professional
1600
01:16:37,332 --> 01:16:39,132
associations and all of those things.
1601
01:16:39,152 --> 01:16:41,592
And so I think that's another reason
these college kids are having a
1602
01:16:41,592 --> 01:16:43,382
difficult time breaking into the field.
1603
01:16:44,012 --> 01:16:47,422
So one of the things that I noticed
when the election board was going on
1604
01:16:47,422 --> 01:16:49,972
is I had emailed and I said something
to the effect of, "Hey, like I have
1605
01:16:49,972 --> 01:16:51,692
an idea for an additional position."
1606
01:16:51,692 --> 01:16:52,692
And it wasn't for me.
1607
01:16:53,382 --> 01:16:55,242
My idea was not for me to do this.
1608
01:16:55,242 --> 01:16:59,372
This was just because I have a background
and an understanding of marketing and
1609
01:16:59,372 --> 01:17:03,802
stuff like that, and I love projects
and I'm great with that sort of thing.
1610
01:17:03,802 --> 01:17:07,142
I thought, let me throw them this
idea, which was strategic outreach
1611
01:17:07,362 --> 01:17:11,222
starting from there's a variety
of things, which is what are you
1612
01:17:11,222 --> 01:17:12,732
doing to connect with your members?
1613
01:17:12,732 --> 01:17:13,872
What are you offering them?
1614
01:17:13,872 --> 01:17:15,402
How are you building your chapters?
1615
01:17:15,402 --> 01:17:18,462
How are your chapters reaching
out to other agencies?
1616
01:17:18,872 --> 01:17:22,212
Because I have analysts who I'm mentoring.
1617
01:17:22,272 --> 01:17:26,532
Some of these are college kids now, but
all of them were entering the field.
1618
01:17:26,862 --> 01:17:28,182
They graduated, they
were entering the field.
1619
01:17:28,182 --> 01:17:32,302
I think all five out of the seven
at the time were in the first two
1620
01:17:32,302 --> 01:17:33,692
years, and two had just graduated.
1621
01:17:34,072 --> 01:17:36,892
Did not know what IALEIA was, and
you've got five people who've now
1622
01:17:36,892 --> 01:17:39,642
been in this field for two years,
and they don't know what IALEIA is.
1623
01:17:39,752 --> 01:17:40,452
That's a problem.
1624
01:17:40,772 --> 01:17:43,242
How are you an intelligence
analyst in law enforcement and
1625
01:17:43,242 --> 01:17:44,442
you don't know what this is?
1626
01:17:44,892 --> 01:17:48,122
And so I said, "Hey there needs to be
some beefing up of marketing," and not
1627
01:17:48,122 --> 01:17:52,402
marketing in a gross way, but marketing
in a, there's a professional association
1628
01:17:52,402 --> 01:17:56,752
that's here to support you, that's able
to help you navigate, What to learn
1629
01:17:56,752 --> 01:18:00,832
as an analyst and how to progress in
your career path and connecting you
1630
01:18:00,832 --> 01:18:04,452
with other like-minded individuals
and people who maybe specialize in
1631
01:18:04,452 --> 01:18:06,392
the area that you wanna specialize in.
1632
01:18:07,102 --> 01:18:11,292
So I pitched out this thing and
they got me in contact with Phil
1633
01:18:11,342 --> 01:18:12,602
Powell, who's the vice president.
1634
01:18:12,602 --> 01:18:12,672
Yes.
1635
01:18:12,762 --> 01:18:15,002
And they were like, "Great."
He set up a meeting with me.
1636
01:18:15,342 --> 01:18:18,282
So I pitched it, and I was like, "Look,
here's like all of the ideas that I
1637
01:18:18,282 --> 01:18:21,502
have and the ways that it could be
done and articulated in a way that's
1638
01:18:21,502 --> 01:18:25,002
not overwhelming, but also can reach
as many people as possible so that
1639
01:18:25,032 --> 01:18:28,982
analysts know you have a professional
association here to support you."
1640
01:18:29,302 --> 01:18:32,352
"We're here whether you're a college
kid trying to break into the field,
1641
01:18:32,692 --> 01:18:35,852
you're new to the field, vetted, all
of those things." At the end of the
1642
01:18:35,852 --> 01:18:38,222
meeting, he was like... And I was like,
and I said something to the effect
1643
01:18:38,222 --> 01:18:39,592
of "I'm not asking for me to do this.
1644
01:18:39,592 --> 01:18:40,592
I just think this would be great."
1645
01:18:40,592 --> 01:18:44,952
And he's "Oh, no, you're the right
person to do it." I'm like, "Oh, okay."
1646
01:18:45,842 --> 01:18:47,582
And so, it... One thing developed.
1647
01:18:47,622 --> 01:18:50,162
I really like Phil, by the way.
1648
01:18:50,162 --> 01:18:50,402
Yes.
1649
01:18:50,482 --> 01:18:51,972
Phenomenal VP.
1650
01:18:52,072 --> 01:18:55,972
Yeah ... th- everybody that I've met
with IALEIA's executive board have been
1651
01:18:56,012 --> 01:18:59,452
really great people, and I can honestly
say that there isn't anybody that I've
1652
01:18:59,452 --> 01:19:01,622
met that I'm like, "Holy guacamole."
1653
01:19:02,412 --> 01:19:06,872
They really are genuinely good people
who want to see good things for
1654
01:19:06,992 --> 01:19:10,512
analyst officers, agents, et cetera,
that are in the intelligence field.
1655
01:19:10,892 --> 01:19:14,942
So that's how it started, and then
I ended up getting committee... I
1656
01:19:14,942 --> 01:19:16,992
have a committee member right now.
1657
01:19:17,252 --> 01:19:18,382
I lost my other one.
1658
01:19:18,542 --> 01:19:22,662
So if you are interested and you are
listening to this and strategic outreach
1659
01:19:22,662 --> 01:19:28,922
sounds interesting to you, make sure to
let us know because I'm looking for just
1660
01:19:28,922 --> 01:19:33,632
a few committee members who really are
passionate about strategic outreach and
1661
01:19:34,082 --> 01:19:40,322
making sure that we, as analysts, are
supported and everything from education to
1662
01:19:40,352 --> 01:19:45,762
networking to career development, whatever
that looks like And building up chapters.
1663
01:19:45,982 --> 01:19:49,042
I- it's not a matter of a money
grab, it's a matter of support.
1664
01:19:49,202 --> 01:19:50,872
Think of it as your
personal support group.
1665
01:19:51,092 --> 01:19:51,212
Yeah.
1666
01:19:51,352 --> 01:19:56,662
So this gets into people obviously
that aren't currently members
1667
01:19:56,692 --> 01:19:59,442
but could be members, right?
1668
01:19:59,442 --> 01:19:59,632
Yes.
1669
01:19:59,772 --> 01:20:03,352
And bringing them into the association.
1670
01:20:03,562 --> 01:20:03,672
Yeah.
1671
01:20:04,032 --> 01:20:06,912
And that's, I think, one of the
biggest things that, that got me was,
1672
01:20:06,912 --> 01:20:10,512
is to have five people I'm mentoring
at this particular time who are
1673
01:20:10,552 --> 01:20:14,262
actively in the field, have been in
the field for a few years, in law
1674
01:20:14,262 --> 01:20:15,982
enforcement, in this country- Yeah
1675
01:20:16,102 --> 01:20:17,202
and don't know who you are.
1676
01:20:17,872 --> 01:20:21,402
And that, and I understand they don't
wanna do the icky marketing and all that.
1677
01:20:21,432 --> 01:20:23,902
But, you know- Yeah ... i- in
the conversations we've had,
1678
01:20:23,902 --> 01:20:24,922
and they're well aware of this.
1679
01:20:24,922 --> 01:20:27,452
They're ... We're redesigning
the website right now.
1680
01:20:27,452 --> 01:20:29,062
Olivia Moore is fantastic.
1681
01:20:29,502 --> 01:20:33,742
I really who we have in place to
getting things done, getting the
1682
01:20:33,742 --> 01:20:38,512
website updated, looking at what
we can do to bolster chapters.
1683
01:20:38,572 --> 01:20:42,222
And again, it's not about building
just a mass number of members.
1684
01:20:42,252 --> 01:20:43,602
We're all on that same page.
1685
01:20:43,892 --> 01:20:47,672
What we're looking for is to reach out
to the people who want some sort of
1686
01:20:47,672 --> 01:20:52,162
support from a professional association,
w- whether you're new, whether you're
1687
01:20:52,162 --> 01:20:55,692
in college, whatever that may be, to
say, "Hey, you've got a support network.
1688
01:20:55,842 --> 01:20:56,832
Here's training.
1689
01:20:56,832 --> 01:20:59,282
Here's this." We're looking at
quite a bit of stuff right now.
1690
01:20:59,312 --> 01:21:01,022
It's not just as simple as membership.
1691
01:21:01,732 --> 01:21:05,232
We're revamping training and
websites and all the things.
1692
01:21:05,717 --> 01:21:06,107
Yeah.
1693
01:21:06,217 --> 01:21:13,177
One of the frustrations that I have
is that, some people will complain
1694
01:21:13,177 --> 01:21:15,057
that they're getting too many emails.
1695
01:21:15,247 --> 01:21:17,637
And so y- you mentioned marketing.
1696
01:21:17,637 --> 01:21:19,847
Marketing's about repetition, right?
1697
01:21:19,967 --> 01:21:24,277
To some people, they may have
seen this commercial 20 times.
1698
01:21:24,777 --> 01:21:28,467
But to some people, they've
never seen it before.
1699
01:21:28,497 --> 01:21:28,687
Yeah.
1700
01:21:28,867 --> 01:21:33,067
And so unfortunately I feel you
talked about the ickiness side of
1701
01:21:33,067 --> 01:21:40,427
marketing, but I feel that a lot of
associations will stop short because
1702
01:21:40,427 --> 01:21:43,187
they'll start getting complaints
that they're, somebody's getting too
1703
01:21:43,187 --> 01:21:44,547
much email or they're getting- Yeah
1704
01:21:44,547 --> 01:21:48,707
too much of this or too much of that when
it's, you're not the target audience.
1705
01:21:48,707 --> 01:21:52,207
You're tr- y- we realize
that you know who IALEIA is.
1706
01:21:52,207 --> 01:21:54,767
We're trying to identify the people
that don't know who IALEIA is.
1707
01:21:54,907 --> 01:21:55,457
Yes.
1708
01:21:55,837 --> 01:21:58,507
And I think that's Well, I know for
a fact that was something brought up,
1709
01:21:58,507 --> 01:22:01,877
is that we don't want to jam people's
mailboxes and we don't want- Yeah
1710
01:22:01,877 --> 01:22:02,827
to overwhelm them.
1711
01:22:03,257 --> 01:22:03,347
Yeah.
1712
01:22:03,347 --> 01:22:07,127
And I've explained, and I've given them,
email pathways and things like that,
1713
01:22:07,127 --> 01:22:11,237
where I'm like, " It's all in how you
design it." You can't just mass blast
1714
01:22:11,267 --> 01:22:14,517
emails to everybody with the same email.
1715
01:22:14,547 --> 01:22:16,487
It depends on where they
are in their journey.
1716
01:22:16,487 --> 01:22:19,997
So, looking at member journeys is
one of the things I designed out.
1717
01:22:19,997 --> 01:22:24,487
So whether somebody's in college-
... whether somebody's new to the profession,
1718
01:22:24,487 --> 01:22:27,717
they're, they've been in the profession
for X amount of time, what level of
1719
01:22:27,717 --> 01:22:29,697
involvement are you interested in?
1720
01:22:30,157 --> 01:22:31,587
What are you interested in?
1721
01:22:31,587 --> 01:22:32,987
Are you only here for training?
1722
01:22:32,987 --> 01:22:37,657
Do you only wanna be a member and you
don't want training opportunities,
1723
01:22:37,657 --> 01:22:40,527
you don't want, all these other
things that we're looking at?
1724
01:22:40,817 --> 01:22:43,767
And I know that's another reason we're
bolstering the website and what's on
1725
01:22:43,767 --> 01:22:47,877
it, because at the end of the day, the
association is very passionate about
1726
01:22:47,877 --> 01:22:50,047
supporting analyst officers, agents.
1727
01:22:50,047 --> 01:22:52,077
It's more than just,
analysts at this point.
1728
01:22:52,107 --> 01:22:52,627
... We know that.
1729
01:22:52,627 --> 01:22:54,247
And it's not just law
enforcement at this point.
1730
01:22:54,317 --> 01:22:56,817
There are so many people who are
involved in this association who
1731
01:22:56,817 --> 01:22:59,257
are in no way law enforcement.
1732
01:22:59,487 --> 01:22:59,737
Yeah.
1733
01:23:00,087 --> 01:23:06,907
So it's about making those very specific
member journeys and bolstering their
1734
01:23:07,327 --> 01:23:10,337
membership profiles, which is something
that they're working on right now.
1735
01:23:10,907 --> 01:23:13,407
I gave them quite a bit of stuff, and
I know they've worked on quite a bit of
1736
01:23:13,407 --> 01:23:17,487
stuff, so that when somebody goes in,
being able to track their certification
1737
01:23:17,487 --> 01:23:21,357
eligibility, being able to track their
certification progress, being able to
1738
01:23:21,357 --> 01:23:26,597
look at what upcoming trainings may
or may not be affiliated with IALEIA,
1739
01:23:26,597 --> 01:23:33,832
looking at what senior members or-
intermediate members have free trainings,
1740
01:23:33,832 --> 01:23:37,372
not just- paid trainings, there's all
kinds of things that we're looking at.
1741
01:23:37,482 --> 01:23:38,862
And I shouldn't say just looking at.
1742
01:23:38,862 --> 01:23:40,012
We're actively moving on.
1743
01:23:40,242 --> 01:23:43,902
It just takes time- Yeah ... especially
when you have an association that's spread
1744
01:23:43,902 --> 01:23:46,102
out across the world Yeah ... literally.
1745
01:23:46,912 --> 01:23:50,342
That's a good point about
the type of member because,
1746
01:23:50,732 --> 01:23:52,782
I just had Kelly Kimsey on.
1747
01:23:52,832 --> 01:23:59,772
We did the LEIU- IALEIA conference
preview, and, one- my big- biggest
1748
01:23:59,772 --> 01:24:04,852
tip is, y- pay your $50 to become
a member, and then you get $200 off
1749
01:24:04,852 --> 01:24:06,852
the c- the conference fee, right?
1750
01:24:07,132 --> 01:24:10,072
And so there's some people that
they're just becoming members just
1751
01:24:10,072 --> 01:24:11,622
for that, just for the discount- Yeah
1752
01:24:11,622 --> 01:24:16,112
off of maybe training or a discount
off of, off the conference, and
1753
01:24:16,162 --> 01:24:20,352
that's all the farther they wanna
go in terms of that island, right?
1754
01:24:20,352 --> 01:24:24,902
So, that's a good point of just
capturing all that information and
1755
01:24:24,902 --> 01:24:28,772
t- trying to work with analysts and
what their individual goals are.
1756
01:24:28,922 --> 01:24:29,182
Yeah.
1757
01:24:29,262 --> 01:24:32,832
That's, that's a big point that
we're operating most of the design
1758
01:24:32,832 --> 01:24:36,712
off of right now for website and
marketing and just all of the things.
1759
01:24:36,712 --> 01:24:41,722
So the strategic outreach chair, myself,
I basically hit all of the portfolios.
1760
01:24:41,722 --> 01:24:45,772
There's not really much that I'm doing
that isn't going to touch some portfolio,
1761
01:24:45,772 --> 01:24:52,012
whether it's professional standards or,
the chapters or, the website, technology.
1762
01:24:52,042 --> 01:24:56,712
It's about marketing in a
way... It's intelligence-driven.
1763
01:24:57,022 --> 01:24:57,492
There you go.
1764
01:24:57,492 --> 01:24:57,932
There you go.
1765
01:24:58,002 --> 01:24:58,572
There we have it.
1766
01:24:58,572 --> 01:25:01,532
It's marketing in a way that's just,
again, you're not just mass blasting.
1767
01:25:01,532 --> 01:25:05,042
You know who your target audience is,
whether that's somebody who doesn't know
1768
01:25:05,042 --> 01:25:09,122
you exist all the way down to somebody
who's been a member for 10 years and
1769
01:25:09,122 --> 01:25:13,552
has no idea that they qualify for
CICA Lifetime if they take the exam.
1770
01:25:13,552 --> 01:25:17,882
Like- ... there's a lot of, we're
finding, or I'm finding, a lot of members
1771
01:25:17,882 --> 01:25:22,272
who don't know what is available to
them through membership other than,
1772
01:25:22,402 --> 01:25:25,402
"I get $200 off at the conference."
Well, there's more than that.
1773
01:25:25,852 --> 01:25:26,132
Yeah.
1774
01:25:26,562 --> 01:25:28,542
There's more than that,
so let's talk about it.
1775
01:25:28,782 --> 01:25:28,902
Yeah.
1776
01:25:29,432 --> 01:25:30,672
. Well then very good.
1777
01:25:30,672 --> 01:25:33,412
Let's finish up with personal
interests , and you describe
1778
01:25:33,412 --> 01:25:35,042
yourself as an excited reader.
1779
01:25:35,092 --> 01:25:35,622
yes.
1780
01:25:35,942 --> 01:25:37,002
So I love to read.
1781
01:25:37,052 --> 01:25:38,622
I have a home library.
1782
01:25:38,792 --> 01:25:44,192
I actually this weekend, very exciting-
... I just did the Austin Book Trail- Yeah
1783
01:25:44,222 --> 01:25:47,582
which is what most people call a,
like a... People go to bar crawls.
1784
01:25:47,692 --> 01:25:48,852
I don't do that.
1785
01:25:48,852 --> 01:25:51,352
That's not my jam- ... but I
will definitely do a book trail.
1786
01:25:51,962 --> 01:25:54,782
So I went I love to read.
1787
01:25:54,972 --> 01:25:57,712
Most people are interested,
that I'm finding, I get asked
1788
01:25:57,712 --> 01:25:58,642
all the time about fiction.
1789
01:25:58,852 --> 01:25:59,942
I don't read fiction.
1790
01:26:00,032 --> 01:26:00,092
Yeah.
1791
01:26:00,442 --> 01:26:01,842
It's just a thing for me.
1792
01:26:01,932 --> 01:26:02,922
I don't read fiction.
1793
01:26:02,922 --> 01:26:04,182
I don't read fantasy.
1794
01:26:04,182 --> 01:26:04,912
I don't all that.
1795
01:26:05,002 --> 01:26:12,132
I dive really deeply into like old
esoteric and occult manuals and
1796
01:26:12,132 --> 01:26:16,462
religious teachings and- Yeah ... stuff
like that, sociology, psychology.
1797
01:26:16,462 --> 01:26:17,112
I'm interested.
1798
01:26:17,112 --> 01:26:20,542
I'll read things about... I've,
I'm particularly ins- interested
1799
01:26:20,542 --> 01:26:26,812
in Jung, and my favorite book ever
is Viktor Frankl's Man's Search for
1800
01:26:26,812 --> 01:26:28,602
Meaning, if you're familiar with it.
1801
01:26:28,602 --> 01:26:28,692
Yeah.
1802
01:26:28,722 --> 01:26:32,472
And so I love Rebecca by Daphne du
Maurier, which is a fiction, but that
1803
01:26:32,472 --> 01:26:35,682
goes back to high school, and so does
Viktor Frankl's Man's Search for Meaning.
1804
01:26:35,682 --> 01:26:39,762
But I dig, again, it goes back into the
psychology and the understanding- ... why
1805
01:26:39,762 --> 01:26:43,052
people do what they do and think what
they think and believe what they believe.
1806
01:26:43,052 --> 01:26:44,502
To me, it's just fascinating.
1807
01:26:44,552 --> 01:26:48,042
So when I did this book trail this
weekend, it was funny because I was
1808
01:26:48,042 --> 01:26:51,402
looking at the bookstores ahead of time,
and I'm like, "If they're only selling
1809
01:26:51,402 --> 01:26:56,242
new books, I'm not interested," because
my philosophy is, and I understand
1810
01:26:56,282 --> 01:26:59,302
a bookstore's gotta survive, so they
have to have new things on the shelf.
1811
01:26:59,892 --> 01:27:01,992
I don't wanna buy something
that I can buy at Amazon.
1812
01:27:02,202 --> 01:27:02,262
Yeah.
1813
01:27:02,522 --> 01:27:06,482
I wanna find the stuff that's out of
print, first edition, second editions-
1814
01:27:06,482 --> 01:27:07,952
Yeah ... hard to find, that sort of stuff.
1815
01:27:08,482 --> 01:27:14,262
So I ended up, my favorite author is
Manly P. Hall, and some of you may be
1816
01:27:14,262 --> 01:27:16,382
familiar with him, but I'm very excited.
1817
01:27:16,412 --> 01:27:20,132
I found a book which is on
Freemasonry with the ancient
1818
01:27:20,132 --> 01:27:22,092
Egyptians, and it's a first edition.
1819
01:27:22,312 --> 01:27:22,402
Nice.
1820
01:27:22,622 --> 01:27:23,592
It's very old.
1821
01:27:24,002 --> 01:27:27,422
I was very excited when I found it
because, again, it's a Manly P. Hall
1822
01:27:27,422 --> 01:27:31,632
book, and it goes, again, into the
whole understanding why people think
1823
01:27:31,632 --> 01:27:35,837
what they think and where these things
come from- and I'm fascinated by Just
1824
01:27:36,027 --> 01:27:38,697
the way the mind works and why people
believe what they believe and do what
1825
01:27:38,697 --> 01:27:41,137
they do, and it's fascinating to me.
1826
01:27:41,137 --> 01:27:46,097
So yes, I am an avid reader with a home
library filled with probably very odd
1827
01:27:46,097 --> 01:27:48,517
books to the average person, I imagine.
1828
01:27:49,407 --> 01:27:49,777
Well, I mean-
1829
01:27:49,777 --> 01:27:52,317
People look in and they're
like well, that's interesting."
1830
01:27:52,497 --> 01:27:57,957
Well, well, you're finding value where
that's off the beaten path, which is-
1831
01:27:57,957 --> 01:28:02,127
It is ... basically a lot of the stories
that you've shared here today, right?
1832
01:28:02,187 --> 01:28:02,507
Yeah.
1833
01:28:02,647 --> 01:28:06,387
And it's also interesting, so I've
always been very interested, and it
1834
01:28:06,387 --> 01:28:09,487
goes back to the clinical psychology
side and when I originally wanted to
1835
01:28:09,487 --> 01:28:11,837
work with terrorists, to be specific.
1836
01:28:11,887 --> 01:28:16,267
I also wanted to work with those that
are involved, more specifically cult
1837
01:28:16,267 --> 01:28:21,377
leaders as opposed to cult followers
because again, to me it's fascinating
1838
01:28:21,627 --> 01:28:26,137
the type of personality that can be
swayed or sway people to do things.
1839
01:28:26,197 --> 01:28:28,517
It's just, it's interesting when
you get into- Yeah ... the belief
1840
01:28:28,517 --> 01:28:31,777
systems and the thought processes and
the way in which they speak or move.
1841
01:28:32,217 --> 01:28:35,677
It's very much an enchantment
type thing- ... when you see them.
1842
01:28:35,677 --> 01:28:38,067
You- you're enchanting people is
essentially what you're doing.
1843
01:28:38,827 --> 01:28:39,017
Yeah.
1844
01:28:39,047 --> 01:28:42,387
No, that's that's why all those
documentaries are so popular these days.
1845
01:28:42,427 --> 01:28:43,037
I know.
1846
01:28:43,247 --> 01:28:47,297
And, and I'm that person that it's
funny because I only have Hulu for the
1847
01:28:47,297 --> 01:28:49,657
explicit purpose of the History Channel
1848
01:28:50,037 --> 01:28:51,387
That's
1849
01:28:51,437 --> 01:28:51,547
it.
1850
01:28:52,777 --> 01:28:53,137
That's it.
1851
01:28:53,557 --> 01:28:57,167
The twins may be disabled, but they love
their History Channel, black and white.
1852
01:28:57,167 --> 01:28:58,767
They love World War II stuff.
1853
01:28:58,767 --> 01:29:00,877
So it's- ... that's just how I am.
1854
01:29:00,877 --> 01:29:04,607
And yeah, I'm an avid reader, but I
read weird stuff that the average person
1855
01:29:04,607 --> 01:29:09,257
would be like I have questions." Me
too, which is why I'm reading this.
1856
01:29:10,537 --> 01:29:10,907
Yep.
1857
01:29:10,947 --> 01:29:12,497
Oh, very good, Brandy.
1858
01:29:12,697 --> 01:29:13,657
This has been great.
1859
01:29:13,657 --> 01:29:15,637
Thank you for your time here today.
1860
01:29:15,637 --> 01:29:19,447
This is great to hear your journey
and your perspective and wish
1861
01:29:19,447 --> 01:29:23,987
you the best of luck with the
strategic outreach with IALEIA.
1862
01:29:24,137 --> 01:29:26,797
.. So our last question of the
show is Words to the World.
1863
01:29:26,797 --> 01:29:29,627
This is where you can promote
any idea that you wish.
1864
01:29:29,627 --> 01:29:31,497
Brandy, what are your words to the world?
1865
01:29:31,707 --> 01:29:32,927
Be a lifelong learner.
1866
01:29:33,207 --> 01:29:37,627
I think that's the most important
thing as an analyst is I tell people
1867
01:29:37,847 --> 01:29:39,467
pieces of paper don't mean anything.
1868
01:29:39,667 --> 01:29:40,657
I have a master's degree.
1869
01:29:40,657 --> 01:29:41,417
It's a piece of paper.
1870
01:29:41,657 --> 01:29:43,227
It's an expensive piece of paper.
1871
01:29:43,317 --> 01:29:45,497
The bachelor's degree is
expensive pieces of paper.
1872
01:29:45,547 --> 01:29:46,617
Did they teach me something?
1873
01:29:46,647 --> 01:29:51,137
Yeah, they did, but I've learned
more in the field and by seeking out
1874
01:29:51,547 --> 01:29:55,197
personal experiences and seeking out
opportunities, whether that's through a
1875
01:29:55,197 --> 01:29:58,087
mentor, through a class, through reading.
1876
01:29:58,587 --> 01:30:01,907
I'm reading another book right
now by Jerry Ratcliffe, like y-
1877
01:30:02,057 --> 01:30:04,077
and I'm rereading it actually.
1878
01:30:04,507 --> 01:30:05,907
Be a lifelong learner.
1879
01:30:05,957 --> 01:30:08,047
Never assume that you know everything.
1880
01:30:08,117 --> 01:30:10,257
The moment you think you know
everything is the moment you
1881
01:30:10,257 --> 01:30:11,707
no longer belong in this field.
1882
01:30:12,317 --> 01:30:13,437
Know your limits.
1883
01:30:13,547 --> 01:30:17,537
Know when you don't know something,
and go find the answer, and don't
1884
01:30:17,537 --> 01:30:20,967
be afraid to say, "I don't know."
The answer of, "I will find an
1885
01:30:20,967 --> 01:30:22,857
answer" is just as acceptable.
1886
01:30:24,447 --> 01:30:25,277
Very good.
1887
01:30:25,277 --> 01:30:26,817
What I leave every guest with.
1888
01:30:26,817 --> 01:30:29,127
You've given me just enough
to talk bad about you later.
1889
01:30:29,927 --> 01:30:30,247
But
1890
01:30:30,837 --> 01:30:33,937
I do appreciate you being
on the show, Brandy.
1891
01:30:34,007 --> 01:30:35,907
Thank you so much, and you be safe.
1892
01:30:36,507 --> 01:30:37,327
Thank you so much.
1893
01:30:39,167 --> 01:30:41,507
Thank you for making it to
the end of another episode of
1894
01:30:41,507 --> 01:30:42,887
Analyst Talk with Jason Elder.
1895
01:30:42,947 --> 01:30:46,397
You can show your support by sharing
this and other episodes found on
1896
01:30:46,397 --> 01:30:46,527
our website@www.leapodcasts.com.
1897
01:30:50,897 --> 01:30:54,047
If you have a topic you would like
us to cover or have a suggestion
1898
01:30:54,047 --> 01:30:56,487
for our next guest, please send us
an email at LEAPpodcasts@gmail.com
1899
01:30:58,762 --> 01:31:00,737
Till next time, analysts, keep talking.