OM DENNE EPISODE
A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists.
Friday is the twenty-fifth anniversary of 9/11. 9/11 marked a turning point in American history when two planes were hijacked by extremists who flew into two buildings at the World Trade Center in New York and another at the Pentagon, and two thousand nine hundred and seventy-seven people were killed. It was the deadliest attack on the US since Pearl Harbor sixty years prior. Following 9/11, the US government implemented multiple pieces of significant legislation around curbing and countering terrorism and enemy combatants. Policies such as the USA Patriot Act and the Special Registration Program targeted and disproportionately affected Arabs, South Asians, and Muslims in America. Tonight on Apex Express, in recognition of the twenty-fifth anniversary, we are hearing from members of the Alliance of South Asians Taking Action, ASATA. Several ASATA members will listen to Apex Express episodes about the impact of 9/11 and share their thoughts. You will hear pieces of shows starting all the way back to two thousand two and as recently as this spring.
LINKS
Alliance of South Asians Taking Action, ASATA
Bay Area Solidarity Summer (BASS)
SHOW TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:00] Opening: Apex Express Asian Pacific expression. Community and cultural coverage, music and calendar, new visions and voices, coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It’s time to get on board the Apex Express.
[00:00:34] Miko Lee: Welcome to Apex Express. This is Miko Lee, and I’m introducing a show that is recognizing the time that we’re in. And as many of you might know, this Friday is the twenty-fifth anniversary of 9/11. 9/11 marked a turning point in American history when two planes were hijacked by extremists who flew into two buildings at the World Trade Center in New York and another at the Pentagon, and two thousand nine hundred and seventy-seven people were killed. It was the deadliest attack on the US since Pearl Harbor sixty years prior. Following 9/11, the US government implemented multiple pieces of significant legislation around curbing and countering terrorism and enemy combatants. Policies such as the USA Patriot Act and the Special Registration Program targeted and disproportionately affected Arabs, South Asians, and Muslims in America. Tonight on Apex Express, in recognition of the twenty-fifth anniversary, we are hearing from members of the Alliance of South Asians Taking Action, ASATA. Several ASATA members will listen to Apex Express episodes about the impact of 9/11 and share their thoughts. You will hear pieces of shows starting all the way back to two thousand two and as recently as this spring. So stay tuned to Apex Express and reflections on the twenty-fifth anniversary of 9/11.
[00:02:06] Arati: Hi everyone. Welcome. Can you please introduce yourselves?
[00:02:09] Hafsa: Hey everyone. My name is Hafsa. I’m here from ASATA.
[00:02:13] Palvinder: Hi all, Palvinder Kaur a Sikh community organizer here in Sacramento.
[00:02:19] Priya: Hi, I’m Priya. I’m also an organizer with ASATA and a teacher based in Oakland.
[00:02:23] Arati: We’re gonna start listening to our clips now.
[00:02:25] Speaker 5: I can clearly remember my parents repeating, “Please don’t let it be a Muslim. Please don’t let it be a Muslim,” while watching the news. I didn’t process at age five the type of impact this would have on my family, but as I got older, those words stuck with me as I watched police outside our mosques and soldiers touching down in Muslim countries around the globe.
[00:02:45] George W. Bush: Freedom itself was attacked this morning by a faceless coward.
[00:02:50] Speaker 7: I got a call after the first tower had been hit.
[00:02:53] Speaker 8: I was right here. My roommate was like, “Hey, man. Wake up. You should watch this.”
[00:02:59] Speaker 9: My mom called me at 7:00 in the morning, and whenever my mom calls, I always think, “Oh, God,” you know? “What happened,” right? And my immediate reaction was, Bush has got his war now.
[00:03:10] George W. Bush: Make no mistake, the United States will hunt down and punish those responsible for these cowardly acts.
[00:03:25] Speaker 9: Pretty much as soon as the towers fell and it was determined to be a terrorist act, people were talking about Pearl Harbor, you know, day of infamy and making all those parallels. And of course, there was that immediate fear of backlash against Arab Americans. But what’s the point of revenge? It’s not gonna bring the people who died back. It’s not gonna prevent future attacks, in my opinion. If anything, it might create the conditions for more hatred.
[00:03:55] Speaker 10: It is heartbreaking when you hear somebody who’s not even a Muslim or Arab got killed in Arizona who just happened to wear this traditional clothes.
[00:04:10] Speaker 9: Within the first week, I started seeing reports on the internet about hate crimes that occurred in San Francisco.
[00:04:15] Speaker 11: Arab American Discrimination more than two hundred incidents of hate crimes. Six of these people died.
[00:04:30] Speaker 7: My mom actually called me and she was like, “Shave your beard,” you know, like, “Don’t do anything stupid.” My partner actually from Urban Groove, is a Sikh, and he was in Pittsburgh at the time, and he called me up and he said, “I’m scared for us right now.” I can’t even go to the library. I can’t even go to the gym. People are looking at me funny just getting in your car and going outside. You know, at that time we realized the education that really needed to come to a lot of Americans that Muslim or not, these are not people that blew up the World Trade Center. These are not people that hurt other Americans. You know, these are our friends, our coworkers, our family.
[00:05:15] Speaker 12: It took me a while to find my voice and publicly react and respond to the events at the close of 2001. Part of that has to do with the memory of how irrational Americans become during times of war. I didn’t wanna be on any blacklists, be monitored, stand out.
[00:05:34] Speaker 8: One of the things that I thought was really ironic was the question the media posed to the, the public. You know, how could this happen to us? Well, kind of stop and look at the history of our foreign policy. It’s pretty evident in why something like this would happen.
[00:05:50] Speaker 9: I didn’t feel like I was being disrespectful, and I didn’t think that I was somehow, like, less American for also criticizing the government. But then again, the appropriate response is that we all just fall in line behind the Bush administration, whatever they do. It doesn’t matter. Civil liberties are trampled. This is the appropriate response. You know, this is the way we show our patriotism.
[00:06:12] Arati: So most of those clips were from Robyn Takayama’s 2002 documentary in which she’s using different community voices to explore her own discovery of what patriotism looks like. It starts with, like, a small cut from the 20th anniversary, and then the rest of that is from these series of immediate reactions and lived experiences from Robyn’s documentary. So reflecting on when this documentary was released, 2002, and where we are now, what still feels resonant? Does anything feel stale or stuck in time, or are there things that you’re still like, “Yeah, that’s really where we’re at now”?
[00:06:43] Hafsa: I think for me, growing up with the Muslim community in Southern California, I remember 2002 being a very scary time as the people in this audio clip are kind of sharing. And I think now I don’t feel as stranded as an American Muslim in America as I did at that time. And to provide context, I was 11 years old at that time, and I could feel the fear from people older than me and, even my friends as we would go to recess, and we would think we’d get sniped down by someone who’s, like, looking out for us because we’re little Muslim kids. yeah, I think that’s something that I can definitely feel, where I don’t feel stranded. I don’t feel like there are, there is a lack of other communities who’ve been harmed who can also make bridges with us.
[00:07:34] Arati: Yeah. Thanks, Hafsa.
[00:07:35] Palvinder: Yeah, similarly, I was, I was a teen as well, probably 11. I grew up Sikh. My dad wore the star, a turban. I remember seeing it on the news. And I didn’t really register for me for about a little bit of time until, like, the first racist comment was made towards my dad or we heard about, the Arizona death. It wasn’t until, you know, Brown communities, Sikh communities, uh, Muslim communities were targeted, anyone who looked Muslim, right, And so for me, I think at the time, it took a while to fully register. But, you know, once it did, it was like, oh, this isn’t about it just being a Muslim. It’s like people are just perceiving anybody. And, as I grew up, I realized, the need for, communities not to say like, “Oh, but we’re not Muslim,” you know? And I think that was like a really strong push from a lot of the Sikh community organizers, reflecting back on it. But of course, you still have folks who are in the community who are just like trying to say, “But we’re not Muslim.” And that’s a, that was a problem. You know, I wanna call out that, that problematic nature, and I think the same thing happens today when we see it around communities who have different immigration statuses. and it’s like, oh, we might be X, Y, Z race, but we’re not. You know, we’re, we’re American, or we were born here, we’re a citizen. And it’s just like, but why are we othering ourselves? So I still see some of those similarities around othering. I struggle with it because I can understand from the perspective of, you know, some of the individuals trying their best, working hard, and wanting to not be targeted, but at the same time, like, it’s not the right thing to do. I think we’re seeing a lot more, collaboration now, I would say, a lot more shifting in the narrative. I know we’ve had a lot of conversations across, the Sikh community over the past two and a half decades around the problem with othering ourselves from other races and other, other identities. And so I, I think that’s one aspect of it, but I still see that same sort of nature, right? Like, um, when an attack happens or when there’s a shooting, it’s constantly like, don’t let it be a interracial identity or immigration identity, right? and, I feel like the media continues to fail us, like the narratives around people of color, immigrants, is just very dehumanizing. and somehow, white folks get humanized in all of the actions that they’re taking. I do feel like there’s a media component to it, and we have to call that out. The one thing that, you know, when one of the individuals had shared that they were like falling in line, I think about just the over-surveillance that’s occurring and the way that social media recordings and just everything going live in public, you know, the need to be vocal, but there is a sort of line, right, that we all know that we shouldn’t cross, and the fear of being seen as un-American.
[00:10:15] Arati: Thank you, Balvinder.
[00:10:16] Priya: I can briefly add on to what was shared. Something you said, Hafsa, really struck me that when you were 11 years old, even going to recess was something that created a culture of fear, and honestly, I still see that in some of my students. When there were threats of ICE in the Bay Area, my classroom was empty. I mean, like, 90% of students didn’t come to school that whole week. That culture of fear still exists, among, like, Black and brown communities, even here in the Bay. but we have made a lot of connections with each other as people of color in our organizing histories. But the culture of fear is still salient.
[00:10:51] Arati: Thanks, Priya. Do you feel like there’s stuff, you know, a lot of these were current day organizers still 25 years later reflecting on their experiences. Are there pieces of the strategy that we still feel like are salient and that we want to bring with us and continue implementing in 2026?
[00:11:06] Hafsa: I think the communities that reach out to each other, that’s something that’s still working out for us now. I remember the Japanese community reached out to our masjid because they had been interned. Like, they were in internment camps, and they knew what it felt like to be othered in America in a very vile way. And I remember learning, oh, wow, like, A) there’s a big Japanese community in Southern California, and B) they are so resilient that they care enough to reach out to us even though they went through all this already, and now they wanna show us or they wanna be there for us in whatever capacity. So I think, like, as we grow and go through these traumatic events, whatever we learn, there’s a resilience that we build when we reach out to other communities.
[00:11:55] Arati: Yeah, absolutely. All right, we’re gonna move to our next set of clips. this is gonna be a little heavy, but there’s some really incredible stuff in here thinking about the organizing that is birthed of necessity, and a lot of the Sikh coalition’s actions in the immediate aftermath, and specifically Asata’s actions here in the Bay Area.
[00:12:11] Speaker 8: At the end of the day, necessity is the mother of invention. On the day of 9/11 Sikhs in New York, where the Sikh Coalition is based, saw hate crimes occurring the afternoon of 9/11. Three members of our community were literally chased through the streets of Manhattan. The afternoon of 9/11, an elderly man was beaten to the point of having broken bones, and Sikh young children were shot with paintball guns. And so the night of, we issued a press release grieving against attack on the country and calling on a police to protect our community from hate crimes. Our first real action beyond the press release on the night of 9/11 was to create a website where community members could report hate crimes and other forms of discrimination that were occurring to them. And within that first month after 9/11, more than three hundred people logged in and, and reported acts of discrimination. Everything from, from people who had been shot at, one gentleman who was murdered, to beatings, school bullying, employment discrimination alike. And we really used the information there to get the word out to the media and the policymakers that we have a real problem that needs to be addressed immediately.
[00:13:24] So I think, you know, the heart of the activism in that first month was really creating a space for people to report what was happening and then using that information to call for change. We were able to persuade the, the city of New York to create a regulation on school bullying where none existed before, and where school administrators are required to track bullying incidents and keep statistics on them. They have to ma– use all means they possibly can to take non-punitive measures. And that regulation protects one point one million students in the public school system in New York City, regardless of race, gender, ethnicity, national origin, religion, and the like. We were just able to get the New York City mayor to sign a bill that raises the bar for when employers can reject a request for religious accommodation in the workplace. Post 9/11, Sikhs have been barred from a number of jobs, including city jobs, because of their turbans. And if you wanna work for the public transit system, you have to brand your turban or if you’re a Muslim, your hijab, with a Metropolitan Transportation Authority logo. And so we were able to get the mayor to sign a bill last week that basically bans most of those practices. And again, it protects literally millions of New Yorkers who work in the city from discrimination based on religion in the workplace. But at the end of the day, it’s again, a regulation that pushes back on the government being able to do whatever it wants and creates a space for anyone to enjoy those protections.
[00:14:50] Speaker 13: So in the Bay Area, ASATA members distributed multilingual know your rights flyers and provided legal support in collaboration with other activist groups, such as the Arab American Anti-Discrimination Committee, the former ADC in San Francisco, the National Lawyers Guild, Council of American-Islamic Relations and the Progressive Bengali Network, and ASATA members provided support by taking down the contact information of the men standing outside the Department of Justice to register so as to notify families in case they were detained or disappeared, and also provided information about free legal resources.
[00:15:28] Speaker 14: There’s a really moving testimony of a young Muslim girl from Seattle, Washington. Her and her mother were held in detention for, I think, nine months- Mm … without charges or anything, and her mother actually almost died while they were in detention. It was just such a traumatic experience, and I mean, we really need to let these stories be heard.
[00:15:46] Speaker 15: I wanted to point something out, that the figures from May 2003 from the INS or BCIS say that the number of people registered as of May 11th, 2003, were 82,581. Number of people detained, and these are their figures, so who knows what the real figures really are, 2,761. Number of people still detained at that time, 158, and the number of people charged with terrorism-related crimes, zero.
[00:16:19] Speaker 16: Reports indicate that some of those taken into custody were harshly treated. They were handcuffed, shackled, placed in cold cells without adequate clothing or blankets, blankets, forced to sleep standing or on concrete floors, hosed down with cold water, and denied adequate food and water.
[00:16:40] Speaker 17: And I would like to ask for volunteers because when we monitor, when we stand here and monitor people, there are less detentions, there are less questions, and people get done quickly. Some people are afraid to go alone, and they can take a companion with them. If we want safety and security, we cannot buy it by terrorizing other people. We need to change our thinking. We need to change our ways. As superpowers, we need to start empowering people, not taking them away, not putting them in prisons, not detaining. This country has become so secretive. Secret evidence, secret detentions, secret deportations. Everything is secret except our privacy. So we need to really take our country back.
[00:17:32] Arati: Okay. So that was a little longer and definitely somewhat heavy. but I think it’s really interesting to hear how people were talking about this, especially post 9/11, and how they were talking about the country in general, and then their work in specific. What things stood out to you from how our communities were able to spring into action immediately post 9/11?
[00:17:49] Palvinder: I was a teen, so to me, as I learned all of the immediate action that was taken, it was really incredible and inspiring, so many different areas of it, right? Raising awareness around the detentions, trying to create that website. Working on school policies. Like, there was so much that was happening, and so much that continues to happen. Great to see community springing into action. I also struggled for so long in my early organizing days, being frustrated that these systems were not created for us, these policies were not created for us. And then when you learn so many of the policies were literally created against us- post 9/11, the over-policing, the over-targeting, it was just so challenging, right? Like, we have already so much, so many more challenges that we’re dealing with, and then here we have additional barriers to just kind of living a, a decent life here. But you know, still continue to be inspired by, the way that folks sort of look to heal the community and support. And so I think that, like, one of the things I think about is, is the community within the communities that we were able to create that culture of healing, as much as possible, and then also thinking about the greater change and sort of protections for our community. I struggle with the hate crime stuff, you know, and the data there because, you know, there’s so much around how data is used. Is it used in a beneficial way? Is it even, you know, supporting anything that’s gonna create some real change? and then of course there’s a surveillance question. But again, like I truly feel that folks thought this was coming from a good place. Um, and so I just continue to be mindful around the tactics that we’re using, being mindful of like going fast but also being thoughtful and considerate around how these might impact us in the long run. And I, I hope that we continue to look at that. not just finding sort of immediate solutions that might work for us now, but seeing the long-term impact of them too.
[00:19:34] Arati: Yeah, totally. Would love to hear folks’ thoughts on this as well, and also I’m curious, I’ve, I’ve now heard a few of you say a couple times just like what it meant to be a child at the time, and yeah, maybe not actually being tapped in in that moment of what organizing and activism was taking place when you were that young. But I’m curious also about kind of hearing about it more, and I’m sure as you grew up but also now as an adult, kind of what, how you feel like that maybe has shaped you.
[00:20:00] Hafsa: It’s great to hear that there was a collection of bullying and racism happening in schools and that being reported because 100% I’m sure each of those data points represents so many other unreported happenings. For reference, I went to high school in Huntington Beach, California. I did not know the demographics of that area until I left high school, and it helped me understand my experiences there, especially with the teachers who were allowed to be racist. One of the only books in my history teacher’s class was a book about how the Quran is false. He was a white man, Christian white man, and this was a history class. and he was a beloved teacher, beloved. And this is just one of many things that happened and that went unreported because we thought, oh, we are lesser than them. We do have to stick together. This is how they talk to us in front of us and behind our backs. So I remember hanging out exclusively with other Muslim students who also wore hijab because that’s who we were pushed into a corner and you look around and that’s who’s there. And I remember going to the masjid and every time there was someone who didn’t quite look Arab or South Asian or generally Muslim, if it’s like a white person entering the masjid, I’m thinking, “Is that a government operative?” And it was sometimes. Every masjid I knew had at least one person who was hella shady, and they were spying on us, and I wonder where that data lives right now.
[00:21:30] Arati: Yeah. Absolutely. And that’s hard not to think about in the surveillance state we’re living in now.
[00:21:36] Priya: I was only three when 9/11 happened, but as an organizer now, I am really looking back on how our communities showed up for each other and provided like mutual aid relationship building, and that’s the kind of organizing that I wanna build on now in the Bay Area. So the way that like we showed up and we did know your rights in different languages and we, you know, took people’s names down, like we’re still doing that, and that’s the kind of work that I like want us to keep doing and that I feel really proud to be a part of. We have ICE watch at our school where neighbors walk around our school every single morning for an hour, and they have their whistle ready. So if they see ICE, they know how many times to blow the whistle, and we will, you know, spring into action immediately. But yeah, that kind of like relationship building and my neighbor’s got my back, and I’ve got yours, and we’re like in this together, and, and we live together, but we also like know each other’s names, and we know what it means to keep each other safe because that’s not what the government is doing for us. That’s what stands out to me from post 9/11 organizing, and that’s what I wanna build on.
[00:22:46] Palvinder: Yeah, echoing that. Community and connection and relationship building and healing. I remember specifically there was, in Fresno, Piara Singh, an elderly Sikh man, got attacked. And, our first thing was like, “Okay, what do we do? Like, how do we heal as a community as well?” Of course, the news media attention is there forefront for, like, a day or two, maybe a week max. but you know, when the individual recovers, or they are gonna be recovering, there’s really not much attention after that. And for us, it was really like, how do we allow our elders to feel safe, right? How do we allow our community to feel safe, that same walk that this individual is taking, you know? And so I think there was components around that about healing, but also wanting to move fast. I think one of my greatest lessons would just be, centering healing and community and relationship building throughout all of it. no matter how fast we wanna go or how quickly we need to go, I just think about the need to center that. And I think more and more trying to find ways when we aren’t springing into action about how we can implement some of that and make sure that that’s also centered to the work that we’re doing.
[00:23:51] Arati: Yeah. I’m curious if anyone has any thoughts on pieces of the specific organizing that was happening that feel maybe relevant. I’m thinking about the non-punitive bullying measures, the non-discrimination activities that had broad benefits, monitoring for safety and security, the description of the detention conditions. I know we’ve touched on some of these already, but I wonder if there’s anything else that’s coming up when people are thinking about strategizing and coalition building in 2026.
[00:24:16] Hafsa: All the information I got as a child was through gossips and rumors from elders who were talking, and they were saying, “Hey, we have CIA operatives in the masjid. Hey, we might be attacked. You gotta watch out.” So I think just that sort of conversation or that kind of community interaction is so important because the media wasn’t telling me how to save my butt. It was telling me that I’m a scary person, and I’m gonna grow up to do something terrible one day. And I couldn’t find an ounce of that within me, so.
[00:24:51] Arati: All right. Thanks everybody. Let’s move to our next clip. speaking of media, perfect transition. this is a reflection around the 10-year anniversary of 9/11, and a lot of the audio in these clips are actually thinking about when the media started talking to us rather than just about us.
[00:25:07] Speaker 19: It’s the first time we actually have media approaching us around the time of the anniversary asking us what have been the effects on our communities. Uh, whereas before it would, you know, sort of be focused very much around the families that were directly affected by 9/11 and occasionally we’d get a call to check in about, oh, you know, are you– is your community facing any backlash? We’ve received a decent number of media requests talking about what the last ten years have been like. What have the various ways that our communities have been affected. And at the same time, uh, you know, I think a lot of the exposés in particular that have been criticizing what law enforcement and government agencies have done in the last ten years, a lot of those have seemed to come out in the last, uh, couple of weeks. Mother Jones did a extensive special on, uh, the FBI and their use of undercover agents and informants across the country. The AP has been doing a series, uh, the Associated Press has been doing a series on the NYPD, their collaboration with the CIA and, and their, uh, mapping of Muslim communities in New York. NPR has been doing stories and, and that it seems that they– there is an interest in the media to sort of be more critical, uh, slightly more critical of law enforcement agencies and, uh, starting to demand some form of transparency and accountability that so far they were just given a free leeway to do whatever they wanted, and everything was justified in the name of protecting, uh, our cities. Uh, but now there’s starting to be some questions are starting to be raised.
[00:26:48] Arati: Yeah, I feel like this kind of feels really specific in terms of what we were just talking about, and it draws us back into that idea. and I’m curious about if we have reflections on how movement work has changed, especially now that we do have to kind of consider how to engage with the current media apparatus and how does responding to what the media is saying about us, trying to work with the media to share out different kinds of messaging, is that something that folks are thinking about?
[00:27:11] Priya: It just reminds me of how like three weeks ago it came out that the federal government was spying on organizing activities in Minnesota among unions, among organizers. Like this is … no surprise this is still happening, but it can be helpful to look back and, and think about how our communities have experienced this before, and how we came together and how we can prevent it. Or just be more aware of the possibility that it will continue to happen.
[00:27:40] Palvinder: I think the common thing that I kinda see in, my perspective of it is, like, in the moment when something happens, it’s constantly the same thing, right? Oh my gosh, let’s go talk to the community, and, like, media wants to paint their narrative of it, right? Questions are very specific. and then there’s, like, a timeframe where the reflection happens, right? 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 years later. And it’s like, oh, let’s see the impact on the community. Let’s see how they’re affected. But in the moment, when the opportunity is so prime, like, we don’t really have that. I mean, I think more and more I’ve seen folks, even in, like, media trainings with the community. And so I’ve really appreciated when folks don’t actually answer those questions, and they just shift their response to what they really wanna get across because that’s really what our community wants to share. You know, we don’t wanna just always answer the question and kind of fill the narrative that the media wants in the moment. but really, like, sharing it from our perspective. And so just greater need to write our own histories, document what’s happening. I think we’re so caught up in the moment sometimes that we don’t even do that. And of course, there’s a balance, right, of, action is being taken, what sort of impact those, taking photos or videos of those actions have as well. I just really think that we need to continue to make sure that the stories and the narratives that we want to share even in the moment are shared. and so flipping that script is really great for folks who can do that. I’m not an expert on that. I hope to be one day. But, yeah, just wanna also acknowledge that the reflection piece is, when I feel like the media starts talking to us.
[00:29:14] Hafsa: Yeah, I think, something that I’ve shifted within myself because, just, talking to media and, you know, being able to represent myself and my community, that’s not something that’s within my skillset. Like, that’s not something I definitely work on. But what I do love to work on is increasing representation of people who look like us in other areas. And I think back as 11-year-old American Muslim immigrant growing up in America, what did me and my friends need? And something that we didn’t have access to was really, like, the outdoors and nature, and that is just the number one healing thing, and that’s something that a lot of immigrant communities cannot find when we come to America ’cause we are put in areas that don’t have nature, where it’s redlined districts or places that we can afford. They don’t have access to nature. So something I like to do is try to organize for those communities to get us out in nature and feel safe because when we can feel safe in the world alone, we can feel ourselves in a way that we can’t when we hear media tell us that we are scary or we are worthless or whatever else. It’s a great place to unwrap those lies and really feel ourselves.
[00:30:22] Arati: That’s a beautiful reflection. I really appreciate you thinking about what you needed as a child, what our communities need, and, what, what it feels like to work with the media, but also to be like, ” That might not be our friend.” So how do we protect ourselves from the media? Thank you for sharing that.
[00:30:37] Palvinder: I’ll also just quickly add on the media piece, and this is like a definitely based off my, my experiences. There are certain folks who have access to media, you know, in the community. There are certain folks and organizations who the media will always go to. And, you know, I understand they’ve built those relationships, they’ve invested those resources, and I would just really encourage, you know, and continue to encourage those folks to really think about the folks who are on the ground doing the work as well, and giving opportunity to those voices as well when they want them. cause of course, not all organizers and activists want those, opportunities. But, I just think that it’s important to share the diversity of voices amongst the community, and while many of those who have access and privilege with media, they are very niche. and yes, they’re eloquent in their speaking, they’re great at sort of getting what message they want across, but we’re also very diverse communities. You know, there are some folks who are gonna pick up the pen and then others who are gonna go to the streets, you know, and organize. There’s others contacting decision-makers. So it just all depends. But, yeah, I would just really encourage our communities to really think about, sharing the mic really.
[00:31:46] Arati: Okay. Thanks so much for sharing that. These are really, really incredible reflections. Um, we’re gonna move to our next set of clips. A lot of this is gonna be audio from a massive Stop Urban Shield demonstration in 2014, which is nested inside of an interview with Zahra Billoo from CAIR or the Council on American Islamic Relations. So we get to hear from Zahra, we get to hear from the Stop Urban Shield work, which was happening right here in the Bay Area, and, um, I’m excited to hear y’all’s thoughts.
[00:32:14] Speaker 20: I think a, a really huge local victory for Bay Area residents to celebrate is all of the organizing that happened to push back Urban Shield. I don’t know if folks are familiar with Urban Shield, but it’s essentially like a massive law enforcement training exercise where they train SWAT teams and sell weapons and, you know, military-grade weaponry for domestic police agencies. And so when you wonder why the local police department in Ferguson has a tank or things of that sort, or why people are dying because police are using military-grade weapons, a lot of that’s happening in this culture of this Urban Shield convention, and so it’s been coming to Alameda County for a couple of years now.
[00:32:54] Speaker 21: On the second day of Urban Shield, community members filled the intersection of 10th and Broadway, just outside of the Marriott where the vendor show was taking place.
[00:33:11] Speaker 23: Can you read the sign that you’re holding?
[00:33:15] Speaker 22: Don’t shoot. From Ferguson, Gaza to Oakland, our homes are not war zones.
[00:33:21] Speaker 23: Simi Makhijani. I’m here with the Alliance of South Asians Taking Action. We’re out here to stand in solidarity with all those that are targeted by state-sponsored violence, whether at the hands of Oakland, Ferguson, New York Police Department, or the drone attacks on Pakistan, or the struggles against Zionism in Palestine or Hindu supremacy in India. After September 11th here, in terms of surveillance and unwarranted detentions of Muslims and those mistaken as Muslims in the Sikh population, and in other countries from Kashmir to Gujarat to Gaza, you know, the attacks on Muslims. We haven’t always been recognized or as visible as we should be in standing together, walking together in these struggles here, and it’s the primary reason that we’re trying to be here, because it’s really important that non-Black communities of color not be silent on this issue.
[00:34:13] Speaker 21: Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders came out in force, and nearly everyone I spoke with made links between the militarization of police in our communities in the US and the militarism perpetuated by the US throughout Asia.
[00:34:26] Speaker 24: The increasing brutality of the local police and the paranoia about terrorist attacks stems directly from the attack on the Twin Towers. Of course, giving local police military-grade equipment is older than 9/11, but we’ve seen an upswing in funding from the Department of Homeland Security. So in that way, Urban Shield is one facet of the war on terror.
[00:34:45] Speaker 20: There was a really great coalition that formed on the ground in the Bay Area, primarily out of Oakland and San Francisco, that said, “Look, you can’t push violent policing in our community, that we’re not going to let you use Oakland as a base for that kind of development and activity.” And so they organized for a couple of months leading up to it, and then around the convention last weekend, there were very large rallies and huge visibility events. They also got a couple of people to move their events from the Oakland Marriott, which is where the convention was happening. And as a result, the, the news or the rumor out right now is that Urban Shield will not be returning to the Bay Area. And even if it does, I always find victories even in the organizing, right? Getting hundreds if not thousands of people out to push back against violent policing, against civil liberties erosion is a very big deal. And so if folks wanna learn more about that campaign, they can simply Google Stop Urban Shield.
[00:35:41] Arati: I just think there’s so many incredible moments in that and, that was a big win in 2014. In thinking, in particular about how the speakers described Urban Shield as an extension of the surveillance state and as an extension of the war on terror, and then about the campaign itself around that event, I’m wondering what lessons the current day movement organizers can take from this.
[00:36:01] Palvinder: I think the biggest thing is probably that it’s not in a vacuum, right? there’s a lot of other movements that are very similar. There’s a lot of other things that are a part of these larger systems, right? specifically, it was mentioned as the war on terror, right? So this is just one part of that, one facet of it, and I think it was really great that there was specific call-out for Ferguson, Gaza, other international movements as well across the globe, and I think that that’s super critical, in the organizing work that we do. As much as we feel like our local communities might be targeted, this is all part of a greater system. It’s not happening in a vacuum, and we have so much to learn from the organizing that’s happening in those areas as well.
[00:36:39] Hafsa: Yeah, thanks for mentioning that. I think something that helped me get through the time post 9/11 was just realizing that this has happened in America before, like many different times, specifically to the African American community. And I remember reading about Malcolm X, reading about Martin Luther King and thinking, “Oh, these are people who can be my role models. I don’t look like them, but I’m pretty sure I feel things that they felt.” And even, like, reading bell hooks or Du Bois, like they didn’t look like me, but we shared a similar struggle, and I hope that in the future someone can look at our community, and maybe they don’t look like us, but they will say, “Hey, these people fought for the same thing I did,” and it was basically against America’s attack on human rights, which has been happening since America was founded.
[00:37:27] Arati: I know for me, one of the reasons it feels great to listen to this clip is because right now it feels like we’re just in a cacophony of oppression, right? Like, every single day there are these new policies, new initiatives, absurd tweets, just so much messaging coming, and so many policies also happening that we’re constantly contesting with. We’re constantly trying to fight against. And, it can feel really hard. It can feel really hopeless. And I guess I’m curious about how we can think about these examples of, like, local work, like Urban Shield or any other work that you’ve engaged in recently, and think about how does, that local, work on the ground help fit into this larger thread or this national moment around liberation
[00:38:07] Hafsa: I also very much appreciate that these communities were able to show up to stop things like Urban Shield, because specifically, like in my experience growing up in the Muslim community, I was just so much in my corner just trying to survive that I wouldn’t even be able to think about this larger picture of what’s happening on the local government le- level that’s going to affect me and my kids or whomever else. So I really appreciate that recognition of solidarity and people showing up and saying, “Hey, I know someone who hurts more than me and I’m gonna go out to the streets and stand up for them and protest for them.” ‘Cause I think that’s something that’s also helped me even when my community has been demonized. It’s always think about someone else who’s been demonized more than you and make that my fight song rather than my own experiences, because that can be a little harder.
[00:38:55] Palvinder: I think the other thing for me is realizing that when folks can’t show up, there’s other avenues too, right? So not everyone has to be in the streets protesting or showing up to these causes. I think about the need to make sure that our organizing is accessible for all people, and that accessibility looks different. I feel like especially when I was in my, like, 20s, I felt like showing up at protests and, at organizing events was the main way. And if you weren’t there, you weren’t down for the cause. And I think for me, I learned very quickly that there were reasons why they actually couldn’t go and show up there, you know, for their own safety. Just the need to be able to have those different actions so organizing can be accessible.
[00:39:33] Hafsa: And I think having CAIR as an organization has been really great. That’s been a constant in my life. It was pretty new when I was younger, and I’m so glad that it’s still up and running and they’re still, like, you know, fighting the good fight. and Balvinder like what you’re talking about, like how not everyone can show up to a protest. I remember my first protest, and I told myself at the time, it’s my last protest. It was with the Sierra Club in Huntington Beach, and it was a silent protest on the Iraq War. And I was one of two hijabis. The other one was my friend. Everyone else was white, and we were supposed to be silent, walking down Huntington Beach. And who was targeted? It was me by other white people, racists. And I’m like, “I’m silent protests. Don’t talk. I don’t know what to do.” And I was, like, 17, 18, and I was like, “I’m never doing this again.” So I’m so glad that organizations like CAIR are there and I can actually organize in the Bay Area with people who look like me rather than being told how to organize by people who don’t understand my struggle, don’t understand my experience, and won’t stand up for me when they see something go wrong.
[00:40:36] Arati: Oh my, oh my-
[00:40:37] Palvinder: Yeah. Oh, oh my gosh. I would not have shown up to any protest if that was my only experience with a protest. I would’ve been like, “No, these people are all crazy,” and like, “Where’s my community at?”
[00:40:47] Hafsa: Oh my- No, I switched to anarchism after that. I was like, “No, the Democrats don’t have it figured out. I cannot… Y’all don’t understand me. You want to maybe, but that’s it.”
[00:40:59] Arati: Yeah. I feel like at this point I’m like, if there’s a protest, we need to have a safety training. We need to know what are the people’s risk tolerances. I’m so sorry that happened to you. That is wild. But it’s also… I mean, sadly, it’s not unique. I think a lot of people have a story of being, like, at a protest and then not being protected. So yeah, how are we, how are we really thinking about how we’re protecting ourselves and our community, for sure.
[00:41:21] Hafsa: Yeah, and it was a good experience because the Sierra Club fights for land, and knowing that they don’t necessarily fight for me gives me information that, hey, I have to do that fight because I’m in environment. I’m a field biologist, so that’s something I keep in mind, I think. I’m one of the few people who can actually understand the struggles of the animals and the humans, and that’s very rare.
[00:41:41] Arati: Do we have any other thoughts on the Bay Area specifically and how we might be positioned in the Bay to support this fight for liberation?
[00:41:48] Hafsa: I moved to the Bay Area because I saw that there was a solidarity there that wasn’t quite there in Southern California where I lived, in Orange County, and I wanted to learn more from that because I didn’t wanna just hang out with people who look like me. I wanted to hang out with people who had all these different kinds of experiences with the American government, with being discriminated against, because The answer is there. It’s between all of us. It’s not within our little silos of community. It’s when we all connect together, and that’s also what brought me to joining ASATA as well.
[00:42:17] Priya: I echo that. I also grew up in SoCal in a really white, wealthy suburb called Manhattan Beach, which sounds not too dissimilar from Huntington Beach. And yeah, the message of solidarity that the Bay Area really espouses is what brings me here. And, the way that we show up for each other in the Bay feels uniquely inspiring. Whether it’s Urban Shield, whether it’s like, oh, there’s a Muslim ban, we’re at SFO within like hours. Oh, we’re gonna, accompany people to their ICE court hearings. Like, I really feel like we just show up in unique ways. And yesterday I did canvassing for ICE Out of Dublin, and it’s, that similar message of like we’re out here, we’re talking to neighbors. And like Balvinder said, there are so many ways that you can show up for each other, but we have a history of doing it.
[00:43:03] Arati: I love that. This takes me right to the next thing I wanted to talk about, which is, a lot of people organizing now don’t have a living memory of 9/11, right? And so we’re gonna listen to some clips, from Deepa, who’s a community organizer, and Fahd Ahmed, who was the legal and policy director of Desis Rising Up and Moving. And, they both have some kind of reflections around social movements, young organizers, and, yeah, we’re gonna, we’re gonna think a little bit about that as we continue to, like, look forward.
[00:43:29] Speaker 19: Social movements have always been the main vehicle for change whether in the United States or the world abroad. And and the power of social movements is that the democratic potential that you build, the people’s political awareness that you build, the power that you build doesn’t dissipate away just based on an election. Doesn’t dissipate based on the changing of a person in power and that if we really had truly strong social movements that built coalitions, built alliances as were discussed earlier, that those movements retain power through various ups and downs, through various issues. And if those movements are infused with a deeper political understanding, historical awareness, that they can be very powerful in holding government accountable. While all these sorts of acts may happen, blowbacks may happen, backlash may happen, at the end of the day, we– the best– the government is the only place that we can hold accountable through our taxes, through our votes, through our social mobilization.
[00:44:33] Speaker 25: Some of the young folks that are entering or working at nonprofits now, supporting South Asian nonprofits don’t have a living memory of 9/11 and the global war on terror, and they have been politicized in different ways, right, over the last eight years, for example, the pandemic, global wars, etc. And so there are a couple of ways in which I’ve been thinking about how we can support South Asian young people. So for example, how can we share historical analysis and political analysis so that young people understand that they are part of a trajectory of South Asian activism that actually started well before 9/11, before the nineteen sixties, right? And that continues to today. So they don’t feel fragmented. So that’s something that I’ve been sitting with a lot. Another is around pathways into public service and community service and into the nonprofit sector. So how could we support young people in terms of building their skills in having pathways open to them into our nonprofit organizations? And then finally, how do we support them, um, so that they can do this work for the long run? You know, we all struggle with burnout. We all struggle with sustainability. What are some lessons learned that we can pass on? What are some best practices? That’s something that’s been sitting with me quite a bit, and I hope that the coalition will really think about supporting young people’s leadership and finding different avenues and pathways to do that.
[00:46:00] Arati: What do we think about how we can share historical analyses that will help people new to organizing and understanding their role? Or how can we support young people in building skills that kind of help get them into movement work?
[00:46:11] Hafsa: I think reading literature is very, very, very important. When I think about what’s helped me understand myself better, it was things like the Black Panthers, and that’s another reason why I moved to the Bay Area. Like, they’re organizing. They weren’t just there armed guards, like, policing their, policing other people from their community. It was also, like, you know, free lunch programs for the kids. It was a holistic understanding of community and what it meant, what it really meant. Like, hey, we got us and no one else got us.
[00:46:43] Palvinder: Some of my favorite things has been around BASE, so Bay Area Solidarity Summer gives context to like, young organizers, about the long-standing history of South Asian organizing, and it is so diverse. I remember the first time I saw it, I was, like, amazed. I was just like, “Wow,” “This is really great.” It was so inclusive of different communities, in the larger sort of South Asian stream of organizing, and so it was just really great. I think Anirudha and Mrinalini cover that South Asian timeline, each year at BASE, and it just allows you to see the context that this was pre-9/11. This is, going back to the ’60s, ’70s there’s been so many other movements that have happened, and just all of the different actions that have been taken. And so I think that’s really, really helpful to see it across communities, religious, minority, state, countries, all of that, in the larger, broader South Asian group and then just the need for training and educating and informing young people. I think it’s never too early to start. And then I think just investing in our communities. I have to say, I know for the Punjabi Sikh community, I worked for Jakara Movement, was our first community organizer. We had a part-time staff member, turned full-time staff member prior to me working. And I remember when I would tell people that I’m, like, an organizer, they would be like, “No, no, no, but like, like, what’s your job? Like, what do you actually do?” So it was interesting to see when I would do the work, they would be so appreciative, they’d love it, and they wanted it to happen. But the investment in understanding that this can also be a job and needs to be a job, in doing development work in the community around the organization, I just saw that, we want things to happen, but we don’t wanna put our money there always. And I think that if we want for greater social movements and greater advancements in our communities to happen, we need to be like other communities. We need to have organizations that are established, investing in paid positions. And so many of us do this in our free time, right? And I think that so much of it happens in that. But we can see where folks in social movements have gone further, and that’s because there’s been intentional and critical investments that have sustained them. So great call-out to, I think all of our communities to making sure that we’re investing in this because we can only do so much of it in our free time.
[00:48:50] Priya: I really appreciated the thread of education, and I was a BASE alum, and Aditi gave me a great overview of South Asian organizing. And, like you said, Balvinder, it’s such an in-depth history. and it really has helped inform my current politics and what South Asian organizing can look like today. and I think the other way that I try to educate myself is just, like, be curious, ask questions. Ask my grandparents what their experience during partition was like. Ask my parents what their experience post 9/11 was like, and just, learn from each other and learn those histories also, public education curriculum, especially in Oakland, is getting better and better. Like, all ninth graders have to take ethnic studies. We talk about the Black Panther Party starting in, like, fifth grade in Oakland schools, so I feel like there’s a lot of progress being made.
[00:49:39] Speaker 27: I think that we need to begin to dream again. I think especially among progressives, there is a great despair and a cynicism and even a pessimism as we’re entering a new decade and so much of the apparatus of oppression that we’ve inherited after 9-11 have not, has not been rolled back. The wars persist. And I think it begins with dreaming again enough to inspire the, inspire movement building. And I think that we need a new frame for movement building. I think rights separate us as if, you know, immigrant rights is separate from LGBT rights is separate from Muslim and South Asian rights. I think that we need to ground our movement building in shared moral imperatives. There is a groundswell out there of not only young Sikh and Muslim and South Asian Americans, but really a whole generation of Americans who are really hunger, hungry to emerge from the shadow of 9-11 and think of this, the end of the 9-11 decade as an end to a chapter of history and the beginning of a new chapter.
[00:50:37] Esha: So again, this is kind of us tying back to what we’ve been talking about, which is just how, how do we connect that work and build on top of it, and also keep people engaged and continue to build solidarity. so would love… I know we’ve kinda touched on this as a through line of all of our conversation, but would just love to hear your hopes for the future and, and what you see as a positive, and where we can go from here.
[00:51:01] Palvinder: Esha, I’m a bit critical about this, I’m gonna start with the critical, but I’m hoping to end on a positive here. I think when I hear a lot of this dreaming and need to close this chapter, I struggle because I think there is a lot of healing that still needs to take place and a lot of healing that never took place because we come from communities that sweep things under the rug. When I think about a lot of my experiences, a lot of my parents’ generation’s experiences, they just never talked about it. They had to provide for their family. They had to move on. They had to figure out how do they continue to have space for Punjabi Sikh folks in the Central Valley or in, in Northern California. I know when I went to college and was exposed to folks who came from different socioeconomic backgrounds, things just really changed, and there was a privilege with being able to dream and think about your future without having to think about, “Is my dad gonna be safe?” “Are we gonna have enough food?” Right? Or any of those questions. So Yes, all in for dreaming. I think there’s a need to make sure that we’re healing and we’re uplifting everyone that’s a part of the community as well. and so dreaming means that we’re thinking about the organizing. We’re thinking about what’s coming into our futures and how are we gonna get there, and it means taking everyone with us. I am very hopeful, and I’ve seen in the last two decades of my own organizing and my own community building, the ways that folks are showing up for others who don’t have those same backgrounds. I see the conversations around those who are detained in this current climate right now conversations that my own parents may not have had, right? Just advancements in their own thinking around, a lot of the politics in the past eight to 12 years even, and I see that across the community as well. Not everyone, of course. I don’t know when we’ll get there, but I definitely see greater humanity and just connecting back to folks and seeing those inhumane conditions that people are living through. Still have a lot of work to do around, when we talk about homelessness and substance use and so much other stuff. But I think we’re making ample progress, and it’s because we’re really trying to bring everyone, the generations ahead of us that, never wanted to have these conversations and we never thought we could ever change their perspective. Some of them are slowly moving over. But I am grateful for just organizations and people and spaces and community, who can come together. And I know Aisa was like, “Oh, this has been great.” I feel the exact same way, right? Like, you know, three of us are joining on a call, and I feel like we’re able to come and connect in this space because of that sort of shared linkage around organizing and care and healing. So just really grateful for spaces like this and people who continue to really think critically about the way that we do this work.
[00:53:43] Hafsa: Yeah, thanks for sharing that, Balvinder. I also grew up in, like, a very low-income household in government housing in Southern California, and I think a lot of American Muslim immigrants in the area were also in a similar situation. And, I think about the struggles, the everyday struggles that my parents still have to go through. There’s no, like, healing. There’s no understanding of 9/11 still. They’re still working every single day. And yeah, I can dream of a better life for them, but I’ve kind of been coming to terms now that they’re not gonna experience the freedom that I wish we could all experience in their lifetime. And yeah, like I said, it all comes down to the socioeconomic fight in this country, and really throughout the world, where we can say it’s all these marginalized communities because of what we look like, but it all really comes down to keeping the classes separate and keeping a very high income class continuously growing, and the rest of us are just the soil that they use to extract nutrients from. And there has been a larger struggle of socioeconomic issues throughout history, and that’s also something that’s really helped me understand my own position in the world. Because even though 9/11 did position me as a perpetrator of violence that I’ve never done, I realize that there’s… it, it, it really helps to link myself and my experiences to struggle that have already happened because it makes you not feel alone, and it really helps you feel that solidarity even with people who are not alive still, and that’s really helpful. I, I think about ancestors a lot, and I think of we… A lot of us don’t have access to our actual grandparents or great-grandparents because of partition or whatever else, so I’ve looked to people like Malcolm X and other people like that. And even I’ve read a lot of Tolstoy . Like, even it, it’s not just something that, um, has to happen right now with the people that are alive right now. It’s a long line of human rights movements and the thirst for freedom that we’re all a part of, and that makes me feel a lot more contained as I’m going through the more difficult parts of being part of a marginalized community in America today.
[00:56:05] Arati: We would love to hear your thoughts as well on that last clip.
[00:56:08] Priya: I appreciate the call to dreaming and thinking beyond what exists, and I feel like music and art and all the ways that we, you know, practice joy and experience that in community with each other is part of dreaming and, um, yeah, like creating what we don’t yet see.
[00:56:29] Arati: Absolutely. So that was a clip from Valarie Kaur, who’s an award-winning filmmaker, and we thought it was, her words about dreaming, y’all’s words about the future, hope, solidarity, also pain, and how we heal and how we move together, that’s the note we wanted to end on. So thank you so much for sharing your stories, your strategy, your, hope, your dreams, your experiences of isolation, and your experiences of community, because we’re not gonna get through this without each other, and we look forward to continuing working together and organizing together. And one day we will, we will win, and we’ll all be liberated. Thanks, everyone.
[00:57:09] Miko Lee: Please check out our website, kpfa.org/program/apexexpress to find out more about our show and our guests tonight. We thank all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating, and sharing your visions with the world because your voices are important. Apex Express is produced by Ayame Keane-Lee, Anuj Vaidya, Cheryl Truong, Isabel Li, Jalena Keane-Lee, Miko Lee, Miata Tan, Pretti Mangala-Shekar and Swati Rayasam. Tonight’s show was produced by Swati Rayasam, and edited by Ayame Keane-Lee. Have a great night.
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