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This is It Ends With You, a space for courageous conversations about interrupting inherited patterns, reclaiming your truth and freeing future generations.
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I am Patricia and I am so glad to have you here.
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On this episode, we have Hazel Swiney joining us today.
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She's someone I've had the pleasure to work with.
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We've co-hosted the Parenting Camp for the Working Parent.
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We are actually bringing the Parenting Camp for the Working Parent to the Sacred Valley in Peru in the fall of 2027.
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So check out the website for this information.
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I've also worked with Hazel in many other different settings, and I can tell you that she is an experienced architect.
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She knows how experiences can enhance people's lives.
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She's someone who has done the work, and perhaps one of the things I love the most about Hazel is her growth mindset and how she's constantly looking to learn and trying to become a better version of herself.
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She firmly understands and believes that she's not done yet.
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I am sure she'll be here on the podcast again and again.
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She has so many stories to share.
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I hope you enjoy today's little bit.
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Hazel, welcome to It Ends With You.
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I am so happy you're here.
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And can you tell us where are you calling?
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Where are you calling from?
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And where are you from?
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What a big question.
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I am currently in Madrid, and I am from I guess many places.
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I was born in Peru, and then I moved to the US, spent 30 years there, and I moved to Madrid, what seems to be recently, but we just did the math and it's almost two years in one month from now, which is crazy.
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Wow.
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I think.
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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And the reason I'm asking this is because coincidentally, every single guest that I have had here at Edens With You, it's coming from all over the place.
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They are from different continents, different cultures.
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And I say coincidentially, and at the same time, I'm like, well, that's very me at the same time.
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Like I'm always cherishing different cultures, different countries, and uh different traditions, etc.
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And I find it very enriching.
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And at the same time, what I'm noticing is that the pain, the witnessing, the grief, all the stories that happen within families is universal, regardless of countries, of cultures.
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We're all experiencing similar things, and we can see each other in everybody's story, no matter whether you're coming from India or from Peru or Spain, wherever that might be.
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It's I find it fascinating.
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So we're all human, no?
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Osea.
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Exactly.
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Yes.
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And so can you start by sharing a little bit about your experience growing up and what was it like?
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If you can even name what was something you wish you received, but that you didn't.
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Oh wow, we're diving right in.
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Yes.
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Let's see.
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Let me start with what I wished I had received.
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And I think an environment where my nervous system could feel safe.
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Because it was very unpredictable.
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It was you know filled with people who loved me and cared for me deeply.
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However, there was there were a couple of adults with very dysregulated nervous systems that made the space and the environment feel very unpredictable and unsafe in many occasions.
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Yeah.
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Thanks for sharing.
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Of course.
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And and then you want to hear my story, no?
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Yes.
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Let me see.
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Um so I was as I was saying earlier, I was born in Peru in Lima, and I was raised uh by my mom who was single, and my grandparents.
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So my mom moved in with my grandparents when I was eight months old.
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This is when she separated from my dad, and he ended up never coming back.
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He uh was a drug addict, had bipolar depression, and had a pretty tough life.
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And so my mom, you know, back then, if you think about it, uh, my grandparents, I mean, were really open and welcoming to the idea of yes, by all means separate, we can help you with your two children, you can move in, you can be here with us.
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And they raised us, me and my brother.
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So along with my mom.
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And while it was um what I always I always describe being raised by these three people, but mainly my my my mom and my grandmother.
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I always describe it as the happiest and stable upbringing because it was, you know, we were very well off.
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We had no problems with um, you know, money, finances, education, food.
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Like we knew where things were coming from.
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Like I never had issues with any needs being covered.
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The majority of my life was wonderful because my grandparents and my mom love love hosting, which is probably where I get my hosting nest from.
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So we always had people, friends, events.
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Uh, they were on a search.
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Um, I guess what you call the inner truth.
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And so very early on, I mean, we're talking about 48 years ago, even 50 years ago, even before I was born, they found this like as what they used to call this master in India that they used to go to, and there were meditations, and they went to what was called the ashram in Lima, and they were part of this amazing community of people that were doing self-healing and meditation and deep, deep stuff that back then was completely unheard of.
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And then on the other side, my grandma and my mom had had very difficult upbringing.
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So, my grandmother had an alcoholic father who used to beat her mom and her and her siblings, and then my grandmother used to do that to my mother, and so they had grown up in this space where regulation wasn't a thing.
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And so, but what I mean by I wish I had a more stable environment is that the majority of the time they were okay, but there were really like a lot of like dynamite triggers that made them, I don't know, just go from zero to a thousand in a very unpredictable.
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There was no pattern for me to recognize.
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It was very unpredictable because there was no pattern to follow.
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And um, some things would just kind of like trigger, especially my grandmother, who then would become physical with me, you know, like she would hit me over the stupidest things.
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Like, I didn't want to eat lentils, and she would like grab the spoon and like hit me on the head with it.
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And and to me, it was like, wait, we were just a second ago cooking the lentils together.
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Like, I was helping you chop the lentil, the onions.
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Like, why are you being so violent all of a sudden?
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Right.
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So her triggers, she she was not able to control her her triggers and her the anger, I guess, that she had uh towards things, and I don't know how she had learned things, and then on the contrary, um she was super kind and helpful and loving.
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And I I was like the typical textbook kid with ADHD with the H, super capitalized, you know, super hyper active, all the time doing moving, uh, which probably was one of my coping mechanisms at the moment.
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And she was super understanding, you know, like when the teachers would call, and um, my mom and my grandmother and my grandfather were super understanding, caring, careful with how they related to the teachers, and you know, took me to psychologist to help me with, you know, my ADHD and whatever I was going through.
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But um, at the same time, what I've also learned is that my mom was going through her own grief, grieving with my father, right?
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Like you never imagine that you're gonna marry someone you love, and then they become drug addicts, and then they leave, and you find yourself raising children on your own.
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So she was grieving quite a bit, and then my role became making sure she was okay.
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You know, and that I I play that role with her, the her nervous system was more um anxious.
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So my grandmother was really angry, and my my um, and and now we're thinking, oh, maybe she also has bipolar because it runs in my family, like bipolar depression.
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Um, but yeah, with my mom, it it became this thing about I need to care for her.
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I need I I I was the I I think I became her co-regulator now that I know more about all these things.
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Wow.
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Yeah, and how did you know that that's what you had to become for her?
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What were you seeing in her that made you want to take care of her so early, so young, yeah?
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Um, yeah, so I I have done quite a bit of work in this with especially with this.
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And what I have found is that this goes pre-verbal.
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This was something that I my nature was even before I could even speak, was to make sure she was protected.
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Um I'm not sure if I know exactly what I was seeing, but I you know, I was seeing somebody who was in a way really strong, but at the same time somebody who needed to be cared for with like I think there was quite a bit of victimhood happening, and my nature is to protect.
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I don't know if it's my nature or if it was created.
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I don't know.
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I always say it's my nature, but I don't know if it was.
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Uh, and and yeah, I was I I took that role.
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I I mean I still have that role with her in a way, yeah.
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Yeah, what I've heard is that, and in my readings and teachings, and you probably've come across this uh through all of our trainings, Hazel.
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I happen to know Hazel through our coaching certifications and compassionate inquiry with Dr.
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Gabor Mate and with Dr.
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Shafali and Conscious Parenting.
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But one of the things I've heard is that how you know if it is nature versus you being in your false self or protective self is um how it's feeling inside of you.
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Like, is it feeling calm, connected?
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Is it coming from a place of curiosity, of connection, of consciousness, or is it coming from a place of fear?
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Or uh so does that help how what would now that I yeah, now that you remember this, I think it's definitely definitely nature.
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Like it's it's it feels really peaceful to be in that place.
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Not when it's too much, obviously, but it feels very natural.
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Yeah, probably and it felt like a natural thing for you then for sure, right?
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As a little kid, as a little girl.
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That was that was what gave you that peace.
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What have you found out with time uh being in that protective mode or trying to make sure that the other person is feeling okay?
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What have you this uncover throughout the years as an adult now?
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Yeah, so I'm working on not being in that space too much because I could also be, you know, too much serving others instead of caring for me, or instead of being in a place where, as my therapist says, I am the queen of the castle rather than the maid of the castle, right?
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So I am I am working a lot on reclaiming my throne, and and the way that that feels is again, like like you're saying, it feels less tiring because you know, when I'm serving everybody else and not myself, it's it becomes exhausting.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Interesting.
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How did that version of you protect you in those moments when you were seeing your mom in a vulnerable space and you tried to be that support for her?
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I guess my my protector was always telling me don't cause any more issues.
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It's it's almost like don't rock the boat, even though it's interesting because there is a huge dichotomy with me, because I like to rock the boat, so like I think my nature is like explore and curious and adventurous, and so I had to in a way tame that that part so I wouldn't rock the boat, like I wouldn't make anybody upset.
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That was my thing.
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Like, I don't want to make anybody upset, and that's the thing with me now with boundaries, which is something that you know, if we're talking about it ends with you, I would love to be able to learn how to set healthy boundaries in a firm, kind, and loving way.
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Because I really had none.
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Like I didn't know how to set limits for myself because I had to, I I felt I had to care for others.
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So it I I became a bit of a people pleaser in that sense.
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Um, and when I tell you the story, like if you know people who are listening to us, they might imagine this like really quiet girl in the corner.
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But no, it was actually the opposite.
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It was more like the entertainer and the, but in a healthy way.
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Like I didn't drink, I didn't smoke, I just I didn't have sex early.
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I didn't, I if I said curfew was at this time, then I would be home at that time.
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So but I still had a lot of fun.
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So it it sounds like you know, when I'm telling a story that you can imagine a little kid in the corner not rocking the boat, but no, I just meant like I was a good, I had to become a really good person very early on.
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And that good person was an entertainer and fun and funny and telling jokes and helping in the kitchen, you know.
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So I'm hearing, I'm hearing that worked really well for you in that moment.
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That was like very wise, very smart, yeah, very um, yeah, um very smart is what I can think of.
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Wise little girl.
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That's why you guessed yeah, and it worked well.
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At what point did you start to notice that this is this behavior, this role I'm playing is not working anymore, actually.
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It's not serving me.
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At what point in your life did you recognize this?
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I want to say when when it became really dialed up when I was already in my 20s, 30s, when I was working.
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And the feedback sometimes was like, okay, it might be a lot, like you're taking a lot of space.
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And so I started kind of dialing down and exploring where is this coming from?
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Like, where why where is my need to be the main protagonist, which is what I would call it now, is coming from.
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And then I realized, okay, of course, I was playing that role within the family ecosystem.
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Now that I look back, it was like to make sure everybody was happy.
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Like, can we just all be fucking happy?
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Yes, please.
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Let's find peace.
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I'm hearing also stability, right?
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Like that safety.
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Yeah, and it sounds like it was a constant horrible environment to be in, but it wasn't.
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It wasn't.
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It was the majority of the time because also they were doing their own work with you know meditation and being part of this like healthy community of healing, healing in community and all that, the majority of the time was really a very nice environment, but I could always feel that like the nervous system thing happening, you know.
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Like now that I look back and I have words for it, I could feel so much, and I and I'm super intuitive and highly sensitive.
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So I could feel so much when when there was just a tiny bit of dysregulation that I carried with me through my parenting, you know, and my my older children, unfortunately, fortunately, however we want to say it, have been exposed to that dysregulation, that unpredictable dysregulation.
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And the younger ones are getting the best end of the stick because, you know, I've I've I have gone through quite a bit of self-healing, as you were saying, Patricia, with all the training, the readings, the co-regulation experiences that I've had in like community healing as well.
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Yeah, where my nervous system is in a place where I feel the difference in how I react, how I respond in every relationship at work with situations, and it feels so different.
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So now I can recognize how different it was.
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And my children, my younger children are well, the older ones too, because they're not like gone, right?
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But they're not living in my house anymore.
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So they are getting the benefits, but not as much as my younger kids.
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Yeah.
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I I bet they're getting the gaining the benefits even right now, because there's not uh I cannot think of something better than an awakened parent willing and wanting uh it's never too late, right?
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So I bet you that they are many ways they're benefiting, benefiting from it at the moment, even though they're outside of the house.
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But um, could you speak?
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Could you go back to those moments where you were noticing, okay?
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Let me get curious about this, is what I heard you say uh when at work or even parenting, when you started noticing this pattern of you having to be that entertainer, that uh person who's like ensuring that everything is fine.
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Uh give us a couple of examples.
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And what was the cost?
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What was the cost of you being in that mode, playing that role?
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Um, mainly, I think it was mainly at work.
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Um also it became obvious with my children too, like, oh my God, you have to always be the one talking, the one doing this, and the one in the middle and the center.
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So I think I think the cost was that I wasn't present.
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I don't think, I mean, I'm sure it had an impact on other people, but the cost for me was that I wasn't really present.
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You know, I was too much up here and not necessarily just like in the in the moment.
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Because when I think there's a lot of thinking, you know, like you or I went a lot into my head of okay, how do I make this experience a really good experience for people?
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And it's interesting because in a way has also served me a lot because I this is what I do for a living.
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I'm in rooms where I'm creating experiences for people as a facilitator.
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But now I'm able to remove that weight of it is my responsibility that they have a good experience.
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Now I just create the conditions for them to have a good experience, and I'm able To say, well, if some didn't, then that's their journey as well.
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That's right.
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So when I I I think when I started going more into the space of facilitation, designing experiences for people to grow and learn is when my biggest shift happened.
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When I was able to recognize that there was another way, a different way that felt lighter in my in my body and also in my head, you know, in my mind.
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Does that answer your question?
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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No, I'm hearing that.
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Can you can you paint a picture?
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Give us an example of what you yeah, a moment where you recognized, okay, no, no, no.
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This this is not coming from my nature anymore.
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This is coming out of fear.
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I'm carrying that weight, I'm carrying that responsibility.
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I think it was at work, but it wasn't that I noticed it when I was doing.
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It's I noticed it when I wasn't doing that.
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So I went through a particular training where they taught us active listening.
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And I realized, oh shit, like I'm not, I am not listening.
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I'm always thinking about what to say next, how to make sure that people around me are feeling okay and happy and seen and heard, and all, you know, that role that I was playing.
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And I realized, oh wow, this feels so much better in my body, you know.
00:23:41.119 --> 00:23:59.519
And I know and this was already, I was in New York and I was working with this Swedish company, and and yeah, and they were we were teaching participants how to leaders actually, how to do be more present and and listen deeply.
00:23:59.599 --> 00:24:04.240
Like we're talking about the four levels of deep listening.
00:24:04.559 --> 00:24:08.400
And I thought, oh wow, I I don't listen.
00:24:08.559 --> 00:24:10.400
I just I'm not listening, I'm not present.
00:24:10.480 --> 00:24:14.960
I'm always thinking about the next minute, not the current minute.
00:24:15.200 --> 00:24:23.839
Uh yeah I bet, I bet that so many of our listeners can relate to this, not being present.
00:24:24.400 --> 00:24:27.519
Um what what was the cost of it in parenting?
00:24:27.680 --> 00:24:29.039
You mentioned parenting earlier.
00:24:29.279 --> 00:24:33.680
Can you mention one example, something where you felt like I'm not being present here?
00:24:33.839 --> 00:24:35.920
I oh so many.
00:24:36.720 --> 00:24:42.400
Yes, so many because the thing is with um the kids.
00:24:45.200 --> 00:24:50.880
My my my role also became this like entertainer, making sure they're fine, making sure they're safe.
00:24:51.039 --> 00:24:54.720
Like my mom was a bit of an overprotector.
00:24:55.039 --> 00:24:58.319
She she still is to my older brother, actually.
00:24:58.880 --> 00:25:01.519
And and to me in a way, and to my kids, right?
00:25:01.599 --> 00:25:06.559
Like that's her her mode to be like super protective.
00:25:07.119 --> 00:25:18.880
And what I think what the reaction of the children, and you know, when I started noticing was that they were saying, you are constantly thinking about what's next.
00:25:19.039 --> 00:25:21.680
Like it's never about where we are right now.
00:25:21.839 --> 00:25:30.720
You know, I'm telling you a story about this, and then you're already like cheerleading and then saying, okay, but next, this is you know, this is gonna happen.
00:25:30.799 --> 00:25:31.759
Oh wow, this is great.
00:25:31.839 --> 00:25:33.680
You got amazing grades.
00:25:34.400 --> 00:25:37.039
Now, what's the next class you're gonna take?
00:25:37.119 --> 00:25:39.680
Should should you go for like another AP next semester?
00:25:39.759 --> 00:25:45.839
And and they're like, why can you just like celebrate this good grade that I got right now?
00:25:45.920 --> 00:25:51.519
Like, why are we talking about in such a high hyped way, you know?
00:25:51.680 --> 00:25:53.359
Like, can we just be chill?
00:25:53.519 --> 00:25:58.720
Like the the the words of my kids have used the most with me is like just be chill.
00:25:59.839 --> 00:26:01.119
They're the best, right?
00:26:01.200 --> 00:26:04.559
At telling exactly what where's the work?
00:26:05.200 --> 00:26:06.079
Yeah, yeah.
00:26:07.519 --> 00:26:10.240
And what finally broke the spell then?
00:26:10.319 --> 00:26:13.599
To like, hey, I've got to change.
00:26:15.119 --> 00:26:17.359
I don't think there's one moment.
00:26:17.519 --> 00:26:24.000
I mean, maybe maybe you've had guests here who are like can pinpoint to the exact moment.
00:26:25.279 --> 00:26:41.680
For me, it has been a super gradual progress and process where I've started recognizing my patterns and working with them and realizing oh, they are deeply, deeply rooted.
00:26:41.920 --> 00:26:57.680
And I have to almost like swim upstream to be able to, you know, use them in a different way because I I now know that they're not going to go away as as much as I wish they would go completely away.
00:26:58.400 --> 00:27:10.400
So then the instinct is to go there, and then the work that I'm doing is to like realize them when they come up, notice them and be like, okay, there you are.
00:27:10.559 --> 00:27:12.079
Of course, of course, here you are.
00:27:12.240 --> 00:27:17.599
My daughter's telling me something about something amazing, and I'm thinking about, okay, what's next?
00:27:17.839 --> 00:27:23.039
And now I'm able to calm myself because even if I don't say it, they feel it.
00:27:23.279 --> 00:27:26.559
That's the thing with the nervous system in the in your children, right?
00:27:26.720 --> 00:27:29.839
They feel exactly, they know, they know you so well.
00:27:31.200 --> 00:27:41.279
And so I'm able to recognize when they are coming up, you know, almost like self-regulate and and be there, be present uh with them.
00:27:41.440 --> 00:27:47.359
So I don't think there's a moment, I think it's it's been 10 years or more.
00:27:48.559 --> 00:27:52.480
Yeah, I think it has been longer now that um that I've been doing this work.
00:27:53.039 --> 00:28:02.160
And to your point, actually, I'd say it's more common than not, that it's not one defining moment, but a journey.
00:28:02.400 --> 00:28:06.960
And that's what makes actually cycle breaking so hard because it's such a process.
00:28:07.119 --> 00:28:13.359
You wish that you could we could push a button and oh, once we recognize it, it's all change.
00:28:14.240 --> 00:28:15.759
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:46.400
That yeah, the one thing that I've been able to break, and I'm very proud of, and it has nothing to do with the story I've told you, and maybe everything to do with the story I've told you, is that I don't think it's only my family, but in Peru, you know, Catholic culture, my family wasn't religious, obviously, because they were more like spiritual, but this whole guilt tripping, oh yeah, threatening if you don't do this, I that, you know, I I you're this is gonna happen to you, but then they never they never happened.
00:28:46.559 --> 00:28:49.839
So it was just always, it was always a fucking threat.
00:28:50.160 --> 00:28:50.880
Threat.
00:28:51.279 --> 00:28:55.039
Um, I've been able to break that.
00:28:55.119 --> 00:29:02.240
And and yesterday one of my kids was doing it to my other kid, and I said, I know you've learned that from me.
00:29:02.960 --> 00:29:04.799
I know, I know you've learned it from me.
00:29:04.960 --> 00:29:15.359
I can tell you it doesn't work, it doesn't work for you, especially because you're the one worked up, and the other person is like, I don't care, you're threatening me, and it really means nothing.
00:29:15.759 --> 00:29:21.680
And it doesn't work for your sibling or your spouse, you know, whoever you're gonna be interacting with.
00:29:22.480 --> 00:29:24.480
All my children are going to therapy.
00:29:24.559 --> 00:29:38.079
And so I'm sharing this with you because in the most loving conversation with my my daughter, who was doing the same thing I was doing years ago, I said, I don't know, maybe something to explore in therapy.
00:29:38.160 --> 00:29:41.039
And she was like, Yeah, I can see that.
00:29:41.200 --> 00:29:41.839
I can see that.
00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:46.640
And then she's like, Well, thanks so much for this, like for giving it to me.
00:29:46.720 --> 00:29:48.960
And I was like, Well, now it's yours, right?
00:29:49.039 --> 00:29:53.440
Like, now it's your responsibility to work through it.
00:29:53.519 --> 00:30:06.000
Um, but I I love love that I that's not even coming up for me anymore as an option, like the threatening, like I have been able to really work through that one and break that cycle.
00:30:06.160 --> 00:30:10.720
It's so liberating because that that was my thing to go to, you know.
00:30:10.880 --> 00:30:14.480
If you don't do this, uh, you know, I you're what what helped you?
00:30:14.640 --> 00:30:16.480
Yeah, what helped you conquer?
00:30:16.640 --> 00:30:22.000
You mentioned you said earlier, going against uh the stream, upstream almost.
00:30:22.079 --> 00:30:22.160
Yeah.
00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:24.640
Like what helped you with this one in particular?
00:30:24.799 --> 00:30:29.839
What would you say supported you the most to really break free from that pattern?
00:30:31.759 --> 00:30:34.319
I think a couple a couple of things.
00:30:34.799 --> 00:30:38.720
Um my work with I think Dr.
00:30:38.880 --> 00:31:03.359
Shafali and the the beauty of something unveiling where she taught us, me, you, everybody who's been working with her that these children are themselves and they're sovereign, you know, like they they have their own, yeah, they're whole.
00:31:04.000 --> 00:31:19.839
And and how poisonous that particular pattern was to them, but also to me, it was exhausting because I mean that that is when my nervous system would be really charged, and even telling you right now, like I feel it in my body.
00:31:20.640 --> 00:31:36.400
And so, in a way, if we continue using the upstream metaphor, I guess this work has helped me float, you know, be like, okay, instead of swimming upwards, I'm just gonna turn around and float.
00:31:36.640 --> 00:31:40.240
I was just in Switzerland, and in Switzerland they have these like rivers that you can float.
00:31:40.480 --> 00:31:41.119
Streams, yeah.
00:31:41.359 --> 00:31:42.480
Yeah, you can float.
00:31:42.640 --> 00:31:56.880
And that visual is like, oh, yeah, I'm just floating and also realizing, first of all, it doesn't help anyone, like it's just hurtful to the children, and it's fear-based parenting, and it's awful.
00:31:57.039 --> 00:32:01.440
Yeah, it's awful to my children, you know, it's awful to them, it's awful to me.
00:32:01.759 --> 00:32:09.200
And then because I've never learned how to set boundaries, in reality, the threat was just nothing because it was smoke.
00:32:10.079 --> 00:32:46.000
Because it never be it never became a thing, it never became punishment or a uh consequence, it was just ammunition, and I don't want to, I didn't want I wanted, I really wanted to stop raising my kids in that way because I was that kid, you know, where I was threatened constantly, not just in my house, but also in school, because I you know I was so hyper and I was always rocking the boat and energetic, and and I was the one always being like Swain, because in Peru they call you by your last name, at least in that school.
00:32:46.480 --> 00:32:50.799
Swain, you're gonna be punished, and you're gonna be kicked out of school and kicked out of class.
00:32:50.960 --> 00:32:55.519
And I don't know, there's nothing that comes out of threats that is good, you know.
00:32:55.680 --> 00:33:05.759
If anything, you you are raising kids who are who have more of a fixed mindset than the opportunity of believing that they can do things differently, you know?
00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:07.920
Yeah, with labels, right?
00:33:08.160 --> 00:33:11.680
What label, what label would you say you were growing up with?
00:33:12.400 --> 00:33:16.400
I am ah malcriada, but I don't know how to say it.
00:33:17.279 --> 00:33:19.279
Um mischievous, mischievous.
00:33:21.920 --> 00:33:22.720
How funny.
00:33:23.359 --> 00:33:24.000
Yeah.
00:33:24.960 --> 00:33:38.319
Oh exactly, and I'm hearing that you know the for that one, for that particular pattern, you were not, you did not have fear to change.
00:33:38.480 --> 00:33:44.319
Sometimes we fear that with a change, oh my god, because we don't know it's unfamiliar.
00:33:44.480 --> 00:33:45.839
How is it gonna be otherwise?
00:33:46.000 --> 00:33:49.440
If I'm not being this way, what are my kids gonna turn out?
00:33:49.599 --> 00:33:51.279
But that that was not there.
00:33:51.839 --> 00:33:52.640
Is that true?
00:33:52.799 --> 00:33:54.480
Or how how were you?
00:33:54.880 --> 00:34:08.079
Yeah, no, that they that was it just became very clear that oh, I think another thing that happened is I realized also that was pushing my kids away from me.
00:34:08.480 --> 00:34:10.000
Rather than disconnect, yeah.
00:34:10.159 --> 00:34:11.679
Yeah, it was complete disconnect.
00:34:11.760 --> 00:34:16.239
And my goal was to be, it still is, to be connected with them.
00:34:16.400 --> 00:34:21.280
Yeah, and that was yeah, having the opposite effect.
00:34:21.599 --> 00:34:41.519
And I've seen it in other parents and other households, and I can see the children completely disconnected from their parents, and I I really did not want to be that person, that or that really I I don't I didn't want to have that relationship, not just be that person, and that's a that's a huge cost, right?
00:34:41.599 --> 00:34:43.599
It's your relationship with your child, yeah.
00:34:43.679 --> 00:34:44.000
Exactly.
00:34:44.159 --> 00:34:45.280
Um that's what I'm hearing.
00:34:45.920 --> 00:34:47.039
Yeah, yeah.
00:34:47.920 --> 00:34:52.719
Okay, so maybe that's why it was like, okay, this one is easy, it's so clear.
00:34:53.519 --> 00:34:55.760
Yeah, makes sense.
00:34:56.239 --> 00:35:02.559
What did you discover you couldn't control in in all of this?
00:35:03.119 --> 00:35:04.400
In your journey.
00:35:07.280 --> 00:35:08.800
That's a great question.
00:35:12.960 --> 00:35:15.599
I think it has to do with what others do, right?
00:35:15.679 --> 00:35:22.000
Like I cannot control how others react or whatever others do, but I I how they feel, yeah.
00:35:22.239 --> 00:35:23.519
How they feel, exactly.
00:35:24.800 --> 00:35:33.760
But I could I could definitely control how I'm showing up and what what the way that I'm showing up as a ripple effect.
00:35:33.920 --> 00:35:38.639
I don't know why I'm why I have so many water metaphors today, but look at you.
00:35:38.960 --> 00:35:39.599
Summer.
00:35:39.840 --> 00:35:45.679
It's summer, exactly, as a ripple effect, you know, my actions, what they have on them.
00:35:46.239 --> 00:35:54.159
So yeah, I cannot control how they feel or how people act, but I can control how I'm showing up in situations.
00:35:54.320 --> 00:35:54.880
Yeah.
00:35:55.199 --> 00:35:58.880
And also, I can sometimes I cannot control.
00:35:59.199 --> 00:36:06.880
I don't know why I went there when you asked me the question, but like when I'm the more tired I am, the more my patterns show up.
00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:13.039
So I've realized that there's there's uh very little consciousness when I'm tired.
00:36:13.280 --> 00:36:22.400
So I'm not able to control those patterns and those things, site, you know, patterns that I need to break, they really show up.
00:36:22.559 --> 00:36:30.159
So I try to be just quiet at night when I'm tired, when I come back from a trip, or yeah.
00:36:30.719 --> 00:36:37.280
Uh so I've learned that in that moment there is no I can't control those patterns.
00:36:37.599 --> 00:36:40.000
Good for you for recognizing it, right?
00:36:40.320 --> 00:36:43.119
Uh it's our job to recognize this.
00:36:43.360 --> 00:36:53.119
And I hear a lot of, I'm perceiving a lot of connection between your you, you very connected to your body and how that's showing up, how things are showing up.
00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:56.800
Uh, what would you attribute this to?
00:36:57.039 --> 00:37:02.559
Because some so many of us are so much in our heads and not connected to our bodies.
00:37:03.119 --> 00:37:14.000
I to me it has to do, it's very, very connected to the work I have done with Gabor Mate and the training that we did.
00:37:14.079 --> 00:37:42.400
It was, you know, a year long, and it was all about the body, like getting out of your head, going into the body, and having this attunement with, in my case, where things start, you know, where everybody has the ability to recognize when a pattern is about to show up, when we are feeling triggered, we it it's always in the body.
00:37:42.559 --> 00:37:51.119
So for me, the there's some triggers that start in my jaw, there's some triggers that start in my stomach.
00:37:51.519 --> 00:37:54.960
And to me, I see that as a as a red flag.
00:37:55.039 --> 00:38:03.840
And again, I'm gonna go back to the metaphor of the water, but like you know how at the beach you have the the red flag or the yellow flag or the green flag.
00:38:04.159 --> 00:38:22.480
The tide is the tide, the tide is about to be a tsunami, and I I better not have important conversations right now, or you know, I need to also allow that feeling to be and just become really curious about okay, what what is happening?
00:38:22.639 --> 00:38:24.400
What is happening in the body?
00:38:25.440 --> 00:38:33.519
Um, so yeah, I've been able to do a lot of work with that and not fight the body sensation.
00:38:34.400 --> 00:38:38.320
But like Gabra Mate says, you know, tension requires attention.
00:38:38.639 --> 00:38:39.679
And I love that.
00:38:39.840 --> 00:38:42.320
I I'm like, okay, there it is.
00:38:42.719 --> 00:38:44.159
Let me pay attention to it.
00:38:44.239 --> 00:38:52.960
Let me not fight it, let me sit with it, you know, tell my kids I need to go to the bathroom or go on a run or whatever it is that needs to happen.
00:38:53.119 --> 00:39:07.119
But that I in that moment, in that moment, I'm I'm not being able to act from a conscious place because it's almost like instinctual, right?
00:39:07.360 --> 00:39:10.400
It's part of my animal reaction in that moment.
00:39:10.800 --> 00:39:11.199
Survival.
00:39:11.440 --> 00:39:11.840
Survival.
00:39:12.079 --> 00:39:13.280
It's survival, exactly.
00:39:13.360 --> 00:39:14.480
It's visceral.
00:39:14.800 --> 00:39:29.679
And when we are acting from that place, until we regulate or until I regulate, speaking for myself, I'm not able to have a couple of things that are required to build strong relationships, right?
00:39:29.760 --> 00:39:31.840
Like curiosity, compassion, kindness.
00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:32.400
I can't.
00:39:32.480 --> 00:39:40.079
I just it's the heart is beating too fast, the jaw is too tight, nothing good is gonna come out.
00:39:40.159 --> 00:39:46.400
You know, it's it's the ocean is really not a good place to go and swim at that moment.
00:39:46.480 --> 00:39:49.119
So yeah, yeah, I love how you paint this picture.
00:39:49.280 --> 00:39:54.559
I could just so simply, I can picture it exactly happening, right?
00:39:54.639 --> 00:40:01.360
Like it's not in we're not in a in a good place when we are tense already, right?
00:40:01.599 --> 00:40:01.920
Coming.
00:40:02.639 --> 00:40:04.639
So you're recognizing this.
00:40:04.800 --> 00:40:13.840
And how did the people so sorry for interrupting you, but yeah, you know, before that was exciting for me.
00:40:14.079 --> 00:40:14.559
Uh-huh.
00:40:14.880 --> 00:40:22.079
So, because I I grew up in that place where it's like all feisty and conflict, and you know, not always again, but familiar.
00:40:23.039 --> 00:40:25.360
It was very, yeah, it was very familiar.
00:40:25.599 --> 00:40:32.239
So actually, before doing this work with the body and everything, it was like, ah, let's go.
00:40:32.480 --> 00:40:35.119
And I would be like, we have to speak right now.
00:40:35.280 --> 00:40:40.159
And I would walk into my children's room and be like, this conversation needs to happen right now.
00:40:40.719 --> 00:40:51.679
Instead of now I can say, okay, maybe I need weeks to have this conversation for my nervous system to regulate, you know, maybe and they also need time.
00:40:52.639 --> 00:41:08.000
So that is a very nice place to be floating in the ocean where the flag is green and it's like green, no waves.
00:41:08.320 --> 00:41:09.679
And I have a question.
00:41:09.840 --> 00:41:11.760
This uh twofold.
00:41:12.400 --> 00:41:21.360
One, like how did the people around you uh react as you were making these changes in your life?
00:41:21.519 --> 00:41:23.519
Both, so I say it's twofold.
00:41:23.679 --> 00:41:35.199
I'm curious of how did the people around you shift or responded in your family of origin and also your current family, like your with your kids.
00:41:36.400 --> 00:41:44.639
Like, yeah, with my family of origin, I mean, my mom started going to coaching as well.
00:41:44.719 --> 00:41:46.800
At her, she was what, 73?
00:41:47.679 --> 00:41:59.440
And um, my brothers also have done like compassionate inquiry coaching, and and I think you had her as a guest here, actually, Leslie.
00:42:00.559 --> 00:42:01.679
One of my brothers.
00:42:02.000 --> 00:42:06.079
So, yeah, so that that is the the change.
00:42:06.239 --> 00:42:09.679
I think I'm also able to set more boundaries.
00:42:09.840 --> 00:42:15.280
Like, for example, triangulation is a thing, a pattern that my family has, like my family of origin.
00:42:16.079 --> 00:42:17.039
And I've cut that.
00:42:17.119 --> 00:42:23.119
I'm like, talk to the person directly or tell them to talk to me directly, because again, in that drama, right?
00:42:23.199 --> 00:42:34.400
That that that beautiful like tension where I could come in and be like the like hey, everyone's okay, let me solve it, let me fix it.
00:42:34.559 --> 00:42:38.159
Now it's like, nah, I don't I don't fall into that anymore.
00:42:38.480 --> 00:42:50.880
And then with my family, I think, yeah, deeper, deeper connections with my husband, with my kids, stronger relationships.
00:42:51.119 --> 00:43:05.440
Um I think I'm able to draw them to me now rather than uh deter them away, or like you know, make them not want to be connected to me.
00:43:06.960 --> 00:43:19.440
Because I think they feel safe, they feel seen, and and it is a yeah, it it I'm showing up present and with a way, way, way more regulated nervous system.
00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:27.920
But now the interesting thing is anytime there's a spike, so anytime there's a bit of a wave, they feel it more now.
00:43:28.800 --> 00:43:30.639
And I bet you feel it more too.
00:43:30.880 --> 00:43:34.320
Yeah, so they're like, whoa, like what what the heck?
00:43:34.400 --> 00:43:39.039
You know, like why is that like sparking or like happening?
00:43:39.519 --> 00:43:41.039
So it's interesting.
00:43:41.440 --> 00:43:44.239
It's interesting how they're noticing it more now.
00:43:44.400 --> 00:43:50.719
I I noticed a few days ago actually, um one of my kids mentioning that.
00:43:50.880 --> 00:43:58.079
And not mentioning, hey, I've noticed that you don't do it as much, and now I notice it when it happens, but but being like, whoa, like what's going on?
00:43:58.719 --> 00:43:59.760
Yeah, interesting.
00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:03.039
Because they're not used to that environment anymore.
00:44:03.360 --> 00:44:04.400
That's beautiful.
00:44:04.800 --> 00:44:10.239
So kind of along these lines, but I want you to think about this one, Hazel.
00:44:10.719 --> 00:44:11.840
What ends with you?
00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:15.039
If this work continues, what ends with you?
00:44:16.239 --> 00:44:21.119
I think a few things already have ended, as I've shared.
00:44:21.679 --> 00:44:25.679
But the one I'm working on currently is healthy boundaries.
00:44:26.000 --> 00:44:28.880
So meaning not having healthy boundaries.
00:44:29.360 --> 00:44:31.760
Because I see it in my children already.
00:44:32.079 --> 00:44:38.000
And neither me or my husband have have learned how to set healthy boundaries.
00:44:38.159 --> 00:44:42.800
And we are working on it diligently, he and I.
00:44:42.960 --> 00:44:48.239
So that's it's beautiful because it's it's the two of us, right?
00:44:48.320 --> 00:44:52.800
Coming together to end that a cycle that we both share.
00:44:53.360 --> 00:44:53.679
Yeah.
00:44:54.159 --> 00:44:59.199
And how will the next generation then feel the difference if they end, if you end this?
00:45:00.719 --> 00:45:09.679
They would have healthier relationships because when the boundaries are not set, when healthy boundaries aren't set, you know, people can walk all over you.
00:45:09.840 --> 00:45:15.599
So more genuine, more truthful relationships, right?
00:45:16.000 --> 00:45:16.800
Exactly, yes.
00:45:16.960 --> 00:45:21.599
Yeah, because they might seem like a good relationship, but it it might not be underneath.
00:45:22.400 --> 00:45:22.719
Yeah.
00:45:22.960 --> 00:45:24.719
Oh, that's beautiful.
00:45:25.039 --> 00:45:27.599
Thank you so much for thank you.
00:45:27.920 --> 00:45:29.039
Sharing here.
00:45:29.280 --> 00:45:35.679
You have so much to offer to this world and contribute with your own experiences, I feel.
00:45:35.920 --> 00:45:52.239
Hazel, something she didn't mention is that she has five kids of and she's raised five kids, they're all now teenagers or young adults, and yes, um, there's so much just right there to pick from, right?
00:45:52.639 --> 00:46:05.039
Yeah, if you if we choose to see it that way, and I can absolutely see how you have chosen that path of seeing your kids as your teachers and for life.
00:46:05.199 --> 00:46:07.280
Yeah, they deserve it.
00:46:07.760 --> 00:46:09.519
Yeah, thank you.
00:46:09.760 --> 00:46:11.119
Thank you so much.
00:46:12.400 --> 00:46:20.159
Before we wrap up, I'd love to leave you with one reflection that stayed with me after the conversation today with Hazel.
00:46:20.960 --> 00:46:33.840
And one of the most powerful ideas Hazel shared here today is that our patterns often live in our nervous system way before they ever become conscious thoughts.
00:46:34.159 --> 00:46:37.920
Our body actually knows before our mind does.
00:46:38.320 --> 00:46:49.119
How often do we feel our jaws tightening or our shoulders tense or our stomach not a knot in our stomach or our hearts racing?
00:46:49.519 --> 00:46:53.039
And we simply push through, ignore it.
00:46:53.280 --> 00:47:00.880
I wonder what if those sensations are an inconveniences to ignore, but invitations to pay attention.
00:47:01.360 --> 00:47:13.280
Hazel described growing up in an environment where on the surface everything seemed fine and it worked for her then, yet her body never fully felt safe.
00:47:13.519 --> 00:47:25.039
It wasn't until she began listening to those physical cues instead of dismissing them that she realized they were pointing her towards patterns she had been carrying for decades.
00:47:25.760 --> 00:47:30.000
And that's what I find so hopeful about her story.
00:47:30.800 --> 00:47:36.239
Cycle breaking isn't only about understanding where our patterns are coming from.
00:47:36.400 --> 00:47:39.840
It is about practicing a different way of being.
00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:42.159
That's the reparting phase.
00:47:42.400 --> 00:47:46.159
Instead of reacting, we learn to regulate.
00:47:46.559 --> 00:47:51.280
Instead of people pleasing, we practice healthy boundaries.
00:47:51.519 --> 00:47:57.440
Instead of performing to keep everyone happy, we become fully present.
00:47:57.920 --> 00:48:06.800
Instead of parenting from fear, guilt, or threats, like Hazel so well explained here, we choose connection.
00:48:07.360 --> 00:48:17.199
And perhaps most importantly, we learn to notice what's happening inside our bodies before those inherited patterns take over.
00:48:18.400 --> 00:48:24.159
Integration work, healing work rarely happens in one defining moment.
00:48:25.039 --> 00:48:36.800
More often, as you have seen throughout the various episodes here at It Ends With You, it's built through thousands of small conscious choices.
00:48:37.039 --> 00:48:48.960
Every time we pause, we listen to our body and choose differently, we are creating a new path, not only for ourselves, but for the generations that follow.
00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:04.079
Thank you so much for listening to It Ends With You.
00:49:04.400 --> 00:49:12.239
If you enjoyed today's conversation, do please consider subscribing, leaving a review, or sharing it with someone you love.
00:49:12.400 --> 00:49:16.239
It truly helps this message reach the people who need it most.
00:49:16.480 --> 00:49:21.760
I should note that this podcast is for reflection and educational purposes only.
00:49:22.079 --> 00:49:27.280
It is not a substitute for therapy, medical care, or professional mental health support.
00:49:27.519 --> 00:49:36.000
If you're looking for deeper support in the cycle breaking and parenting space, you can explore coaching and resources at branchout.life.
00:49:36.239 --> 00:49:41.760
It ends with you, it's created by Branch Out Coaching and produced by Rob Gregerson.
00:49:42.239 --> 00:49:48.159
Until next time, and remember, when you choose differently, the cycle begins to end.
00:00:09.759 --> 00:00:21.120
This is It Ends With You, a space for courageous conversations about interrupting inherited patterns, reclaiming your truth and freeing future generations.
00:00:21.679 --> 00:00:25.760
I am Patricia and I am so glad to have you here.
00:00:27.280 --> 00:00:31.600
On this episode, we have Hazel Swiney joining us today.
00:00:31.839 --> 00:00:34.799
She's someone I've had the pleasure to work with.
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We've co-hosted the Parenting Camp for the Working Parent.
00:00:38.719 --> 00:00:46.880
We are actually bringing the Parenting Camp for the Working Parent to the Sacred Valley in Peru in the fall of 2027.
00:00:47.039 --> 00:00:49.759
So check out the website for this information.
00:00:50.079 --> 00:01:00.240
I've also worked with Hazel in many other different settings, and I can tell you that she is an experienced architect.
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She knows how experiences can enhance people's lives.
00:01:04.560 --> 00:01:22.799
She's someone who has done the work, and perhaps one of the things I love the most about Hazel is her growth mindset and how she's constantly looking to learn and trying to become a better version of herself.
00:01:23.040 --> 00:01:26.879
She firmly understands and believes that she's not done yet.
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I am sure she'll be here on the podcast again and again.
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She has so many stories to share.
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I hope you enjoy today's little bit.
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Hazel, welcome to It Ends With You.
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I am so happy you're here.
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And can you tell us where are you calling?
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Where are you calling from?
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And where are you from?
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What a big question.
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I am currently in Madrid, and I am from I guess many places.
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I was born in Peru, and then I moved to the US, spent 30 years there, and I moved to Madrid, what seems to be recently, but we just did the math and it's almost two years in one month from now, which is crazy.
00:02:18.400 --> 00:02:18.719
Wow.
00:02:18.879 --> 00:02:19.199
I think.
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Yes.
00:02:19.840 --> 00:02:20.080
Yeah.
00:02:20.319 --> 00:02:20.639
Yes.
00:02:20.960 --> 00:02:21.280
Yeah.
00:02:21.439 --> 00:02:32.800
And the reason I'm asking this is because coincidentally, every single guest that I have had here at Edens With You, it's coming from all over the place.
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They are from different continents, different cultures.
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And I say coincidentially, and at the same time, I'm like, well, that's very me at the same time.
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Like I'm always cherishing different cultures, different countries, and uh different traditions, etc.
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And I find it very enriching.
00:02:54.400 --> 00:03:10.879
And at the same time, what I'm noticing is that the pain, the witnessing, the grief, all the stories that happen within families is universal, regardless of countries, of cultures.
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We're all experiencing similar things, and we can see each other in everybody's story, no matter whether you're coming from India or from Peru or Spain, wherever that might be.
00:03:22.080 --> 00:03:23.680
It's I find it fascinating.
00:03:23.840 --> 00:03:25.120
So we're all human, no?
00:03:25.280 --> 00:03:25.680
Osea.
00:03:26.000 --> 00:03:26.719
Exactly.
00:03:27.199 --> 00:03:27.840
Yes.
00:03:29.280 --> 00:03:38.800
And so can you start by sharing a little bit about your experience growing up and what was it like?
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If you can even name what was something you wish you received, but that you didn't.
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Oh wow, we're diving right in.
00:03:49.680 --> 00:03:50.319
Yes.
00:03:52.639 --> 00:03:53.360
Let's see.
00:03:53.520 --> 00:03:58.960
Let me start with what I wished I had received.
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And I think an environment where my nervous system could feel safe.
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Because it was very unpredictable.
00:04:09.520 --> 00:04:14.080
It was you know filled with people who loved me and cared for me deeply.
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However, there was there were a couple of adults with very dysregulated nervous systems that made the space and the environment feel very unpredictable and unsafe in many occasions.
00:04:31.519 --> 00:04:31.759
Yeah.
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Thanks for sharing.
00:04:35.279 --> 00:04:35.839
Of course.
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And and then you want to hear my story, no?
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Yes.
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Let me see.
00:04:41.040 --> 00:04:53.920
Um so I was as I was saying earlier, I was born in Peru in Lima, and I was raised uh by my mom who was single, and my grandparents.
00:04:54.240 --> 00:04:59.839
So my mom moved in with my grandparents when I was eight months old.
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This is when she separated from my dad, and he ended up never coming back.
00:05:06.319 --> 00:05:14.079
He uh was a drug addict, had bipolar depression, and had a pretty tough life.
00:05:14.560 --> 00:05:32.319
And so my mom, you know, back then, if you think about it, uh, my grandparents, I mean, were really open and welcoming to the idea of yes, by all means separate, we can help you with your two children, you can move in, you can be here with us.
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And they raised us, me and my brother.
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So along with my mom.
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And while it was um what I always I always describe being raised by these three people, but mainly my my my mom and my grandmother.
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I always describe it as the happiest and stable upbringing because it was, you know, we were very well off.
00:06:01.920 --> 00:06:08.160
We had no problems with um, you know, money, finances, education, food.
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Like we knew where things were coming from.
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Like I never had issues with any needs being covered.
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The majority of my life was wonderful because my grandparents and my mom love love hosting, which is probably where I get my hosting nest from.
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So we always had people, friends, events.
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Uh, they were on a search.
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Um, I guess what you call the inner truth.
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And so very early on, I mean, we're talking about 48 years ago, even 50 years ago, even before I was born, they found this like as what they used to call this master in India that they used to go to, and there were meditations, and they went to what was called the ashram in Lima, and they were part of this amazing community of people that were doing self-healing and meditation and deep, deep stuff that back then was completely unheard of.
00:07:05.600 --> 00:07:12.480
And then on the other side, my grandma and my mom had had very difficult upbringing.
00:07:12.560 --> 00:07:30.240
So, my grandmother had an alcoholic father who used to beat her mom and her and her siblings, and then my grandmother used to do that to my mother, and so they had grown up in this space where regulation wasn't a thing.
00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:49.439
And so, but what I mean by I wish I had a more stable environment is that the majority of the time they were okay, but there were really like a lot of like dynamite triggers that made them, I don't know, just go from zero to a thousand in a very unpredictable.
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There was no pattern for me to recognize.
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It was very unpredictable because there was no pattern to follow.
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And um, some things would just kind of like trigger, especially my grandmother, who then would become physical with me, you know, like she would hit me over the stupidest things.
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Like, I didn't want to eat lentils, and she would like grab the spoon and like hit me on the head with it.
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And and to me, it was like, wait, we were just a second ago cooking the lentils together.
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Like, I was helping you chop the lentil, the onions.
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Like, why are you being so violent all of a sudden?
00:08:26.160 --> 00:08:26.399
Right.
00:08:26.480 --> 00:08:46.480
So her triggers, she she was not able to control her her triggers and her the anger, I guess, that she had uh towards things, and I don't know how she had learned things, and then on the contrary, um she was super kind and helpful and loving.
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And I I was like the typical textbook kid with ADHD with the H, super capitalized, you know, super hyper active, all the time doing moving, uh, which probably was one of my coping mechanisms at the moment.
00:09:05.600 --> 00:09:23.360
And she was super understanding, you know, like when the teachers would call, and um, my mom and my grandmother and my grandfather were super understanding, caring, careful with how they related to the teachers, and you know, took me to psychologist to help me with, you know, my ADHD and whatever I was going through.
00:09:23.600 --> 00:09:33.360
But um, at the same time, what I've also learned is that my mom was going through her own grief, grieving with my father, right?
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Like you never imagine that you're gonna marry someone you love, and then they become drug addicts, and then they leave, and you find yourself raising children on your own.
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So she was grieving quite a bit, and then my role became making sure she was okay.
00:09:51.039 --> 00:10:00.320
You know, and that I I play that role with her, the her nervous system was more um anxious.
00:10:00.559 --> 00:10:10.639
So my grandmother was really angry, and my my um, and and now we're thinking, oh, maybe she also has bipolar because it runs in my family, like bipolar depression.
00:10:11.679 --> 00:10:17.759
Um, but yeah, with my mom, it it became this thing about I need to care for her.
00:10:17.919 --> 00:10:26.240
I need I I I was the I I think I became her co-regulator now that I know more about all these things.
00:10:26.879 --> 00:10:27.519
Wow.
00:10:27.679 --> 00:10:32.799
Yeah, and how did you know that that's what you had to become for her?
00:10:33.360 --> 00:10:40.480
What were you seeing in her that made you want to take care of her so early, so young, yeah?
00:10:41.519 --> 00:10:48.080
Um, yeah, so I I have done quite a bit of work in this with especially with this.
00:10:48.799 --> 00:10:53.039
And what I have found is that this goes pre-verbal.
00:10:53.360 --> 00:11:00.399
This was something that I my nature was even before I could even speak, was to make sure she was protected.
00:11:01.440 --> 00:11:23.919
Um I'm not sure if I know exactly what I was seeing, but I you know, I was seeing somebody who was in a way really strong, but at the same time somebody who needed to be cared for with like I think there was quite a bit of victimhood happening, and my nature is to protect.
00:11:24.080 --> 00:11:26.399
I don't know if it's my nature or if it was created.
00:11:26.559 --> 00:11:26.879
I don't know.
00:11:26.960 --> 00:11:29.679
I always say it's my nature, but I don't know if it was.
00:11:30.159 --> 00:11:35.519
Uh, and and yeah, I was I I took that role.
00:11:35.679 --> 00:11:40.879
I I mean I still have that role with her in a way, yeah.
00:11:41.200 --> 00:11:49.279
Yeah, what I've heard is that, and in my readings and teachings, and you probably've come across this uh through all of our trainings, Hazel.
00:11:49.519 --> 00:11:55.919
I happen to know Hazel through our coaching certifications and compassionate inquiry with Dr.
00:11:56.000 --> 00:11:57.840
Gabor Mate and with Dr.
00:11:58.000 --> 00:12:00.559
Shafali and Conscious Parenting.
00:12:00.960 --> 00:12:16.399
But one of the things I've heard is that how you know if it is nature versus you being in your false self or protective self is um how it's feeling inside of you.
00:12:16.559 --> 00:12:18.720
Like, is it feeling calm, connected?
00:12:18.879 --> 00:12:26.159
Is it coming from a place of curiosity, of connection, of consciousness, or is it coming from a place of fear?
00:12:26.399 --> 00:12:36.000
Or uh so does that help how what would now that I yeah, now that you remember this, I think it's definitely definitely nature.
00:12:36.240 --> 00:12:41.360
Like it's it's it feels really peaceful to be in that place.
00:12:42.080 --> 00:12:46.399
Not when it's too much, obviously, but it feels very natural.
00:12:46.879 --> 00:12:53.120
Yeah, probably and it felt like a natural thing for you then for sure, right?
00:12:53.279 --> 00:12:55.200
As a little kid, as a little girl.
00:12:55.360 --> 00:12:57.759
That was that was what gave you that peace.
00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:09.279
What have you found out with time uh being in that protective mode or trying to make sure that the other person is feeling okay?
00:13:09.519 --> 00:13:14.399
What have you this uncover throughout the years as an adult now?
00:13:14.879 --> 00:13:36.960
Yeah, so I'm working on not being in that space too much because I could also be, you know, too much serving others instead of caring for me, or instead of being in a place where, as my therapist says, I am the queen of the castle rather than the maid of the castle, right?
00:13:37.600 --> 00:13:56.399
So I am I am working a lot on reclaiming my throne, and and the way that that feels is again, like like you're saying, it feels less tiring because you know, when I'm serving everybody else and not myself, it's it becomes exhausting.
00:13:57.200 --> 00:13:57.519
Yeah.
00:13:58.399 --> 00:13:59.039
Yeah.
00:13:59.360 --> 00:14:00.320
Interesting.
00:14:01.279 --> 00:14:13.519
How did that version of you protect you in those moments when you were seeing your mom in a vulnerable space and you tried to be that support for her?
00:14:14.240 --> 00:14:21.200
I guess my my protector was always telling me don't cause any more issues.
00:14:21.440 --> 00:14:51.120
It's it's almost like don't rock the boat, even though it's interesting because there is a huge dichotomy with me, because I like to rock the boat, so like I think my nature is like explore and curious and adventurous, and so I had to in a way tame that that part so I wouldn't rock the boat, like I wouldn't make anybody upset.
00:14:51.440 --> 00:14:52.240
That was my thing.
00:14:52.320 --> 00:15:09.279
Like, I don't want to make anybody upset, and that's the thing with me now with boundaries, which is something that you know, if we're talking about it ends with you, I would love to be able to learn how to set healthy boundaries in a firm, kind, and loving way.
00:15:10.399 --> 00:15:12.960
Because I really had none.
00:15:13.120 --> 00:15:22.559
Like I didn't know how to set limits for myself because I had to, I I felt I had to care for others.
00:15:22.799 --> 00:15:26.799
So it I I became a bit of a people pleaser in that sense.
00:15:27.600 --> 00:15:36.399
Um, and when I tell you the story, like if you know people who are listening to us, they might imagine this like really quiet girl in the corner.
00:15:36.879 --> 00:15:38.960
But no, it was actually the opposite.
00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:43.440
It was more like the entertainer and the, but in a healthy way.
00:15:43.519 --> 00:15:47.360
Like I didn't drink, I didn't smoke, I just I didn't have sex early.
00:15:47.440 --> 00:15:51.840
I didn't, I if I said curfew was at this time, then I would be home at that time.
00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:54.960
So but I still had a lot of fun.
00:15:55.120 --> 00:16:08.559
So it it sounds like you know, when I'm telling a story that you can imagine a little kid in the corner not rocking the boat, but no, I just meant like I was a good, I had to become a really good person very early on.
00:16:08.960 --> 00:16:15.120
And that good person was an entertainer and fun and funny and telling jokes and helping in the kitchen, you know.
00:16:15.279 --> 00:16:20.879
So I'm hearing, I'm hearing that worked really well for you in that moment.
00:16:21.039 --> 00:16:32.000
That was like very wise, very smart, yeah, very um, yeah, um very smart is what I can think of.
00:16:32.240 --> 00:16:33.519
Wise little girl.
00:16:33.759 --> 00:16:37.200
That's why you guessed yeah, and it worked well.
00:16:37.759 --> 00:16:46.879
At what point did you start to notice that this is this behavior, this role I'm playing is not working anymore, actually.
00:16:46.960 --> 00:16:48.480
It's not serving me.
00:16:48.720 --> 00:16:53.360
At what point in your life did you recognize this?
00:16:54.320 --> 00:17:01.759
I want to say when when it became really dialed up when I was already in my 20s, 30s, when I was working.
00:17:02.559 --> 00:17:09.839
And the feedback sometimes was like, okay, it might be a lot, like you're taking a lot of space.
00:17:10.880 --> 00:17:15.039
And so I started kind of dialing down and exploring where is this coming from?
00:17:15.200 --> 00:17:24.000
Like, where why where is my need to be the main protagonist, which is what I would call it now, is coming from.
00:17:24.640 --> 00:17:31.440
And then I realized, okay, of course, I was playing that role within the family ecosystem.
00:17:32.079 --> 00:17:35.440
Now that I look back, it was like to make sure everybody was happy.
00:17:35.759 --> 00:17:38.240
Like, can we just all be fucking happy?
00:17:38.559 --> 00:17:39.359
Yes, please.
00:17:39.680 --> 00:17:40.480
Let's find peace.
00:17:40.559 --> 00:17:42.640
I'm hearing also stability, right?
00:17:42.720 --> 00:17:43.759
Like that safety.
00:17:45.039 --> 00:17:55.119
Yeah, and it sounds like it was a constant horrible environment to be in, but it wasn't.
00:17:55.279 --> 00:17:55.759
It wasn't.
00:17:55.839 --> 00:18:21.599
It was the majority of the time because also they were doing their own work with you know meditation and being part of this like healthy community of healing, healing in community and all that, the majority of the time was really a very nice environment, but I could always feel that like the nervous system thing happening, you know.
00:18:21.680 --> 00:18:30.079
Like now that I look back and I have words for it, I could feel so much, and I and I'm super intuitive and highly sensitive.
00:18:30.240 --> 00:18:53.440
So I could feel so much when when there was just a tiny bit of dysregulation that I carried with me through my parenting, you know, and my my older children, unfortunately, fortunately, however we want to say it, have been exposed to that dysregulation, that unpredictable dysregulation.
00:18:53.680 --> 00:19:13.359
And the younger ones are getting the best end of the stick because, you know, I've I've I have gone through quite a bit of self-healing, as you were saying, Patricia, with all the training, the readings, the co-regulation experiences that I've had in like community healing as well.
00:19:13.519 --> 00:19:28.960
Yeah, where my nervous system is in a place where I feel the difference in how I react, how I respond in every relationship at work with situations, and it feels so different.
00:19:29.039 --> 00:19:31.839
So now I can recognize how different it was.
00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:37.599
And my children, my younger children are well, the older ones too, because they're not like gone, right?
00:19:37.680 --> 00:19:39.920
But they're not living in my house anymore.
00:19:40.079 --> 00:19:44.400
So they are getting the benefits, but not as much as my younger kids.
00:19:45.119 --> 00:19:45.759
Yeah.
00:19:46.079 --> 00:20:01.279
I I bet they're getting the gaining the benefits even right now, because there's not uh I cannot think of something better than an awakened parent willing and wanting uh it's never too late, right?
00:20:01.359 --> 00:20:09.200
So I bet you that they are many ways they're benefiting, benefiting from it at the moment, even though they're outside of the house.
00:20:09.519 --> 00:20:11.119
But um, could you speak?
00:20:11.200 --> 00:20:15.680
Could you go back to those moments where you were noticing, okay?
00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:30.799
Let me get curious about this, is what I heard you say uh when at work or even parenting, when you started noticing this pattern of you having to be that entertainer, that uh person who's like ensuring that everything is fine.
00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:33.839
Uh give us a couple of examples.
00:20:34.000 --> 00:20:36.079
And what was the cost?
00:20:36.319 --> 00:20:41.920
What was the cost of you being in that mode, playing that role?
00:20:43.119 --> 00:20:46.480
Um, mainly, I think it was mainly at work.
00:20:46.640 --> 00:20:56.000
Um also it became obvious with my children too, like, oh my God, you have to always be the one talking, the one doing this, and the one in the middle and the center.
00:20:56.640 --> 00:21:03.119
So I think I think the cost was that I wasn't present.
00:21:03.599 --> 00:21:13.680
I don't think, I mean, I'm sure it had an impact on other people, but the cost for me was that I wasn't really present.
00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:19.920
You know, I was too much up here and not necessarily just like in the in the moment.
00:21:20.559 --> 00:21:34.799
Because when I think there's a lot of thinking, you know, like you or I went a lot into my head of okay, how do I make this experience a really good experience for people?
00:21:34.960 --> 00:21:43.680
And it's interesting because in a way has also served me a lot because I this is what I do for a living.
00:21:43.759 --> 00:21:48.079
I'm in rooms where I'm creating experiences for people as a facilitator.
00:21:48.559 --> 00:21:56.720
But now I'm able to remove that weight of it is my responsibility that they have a good experience.
00:21:56.880 --> 00:22:03.440
Now I just create the conditions for them to have a good experience, and I'm able To say, well, if some didn't, then that's their journey as well.
00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:04.319
That's right.
00:22:04.559 --> 00:22:19.839
So when I I I think when I started going more into the space of facilitation, designing experiences for people to grow and learn is when my biggest shift happened.
00:22:20.240 --> 00:22:33.759
When I was able to recognize that there was another way, a different way that felt lighter in my in my body and also in my head, you know, in my mind.
00:22:34.400 --> 00:22:35.920
Does that answer your question?
00:22:36.160 --> 00:22:37.359
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:38.319
No, I'm hearing that.
00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:40.000
Can you can you paint a picture?
00:22:40.160 --> 00:22:49.680
Give us an example of what you yeah, a moment where you recognized, okay, no, no, no.
00:22:49.920 --> 00:22:53.920
This this is not coming from my nature anymore.
00:22:54.079 --> 00:22:55.839
This is coming out of fear.
00:22:55.920 --> 00:22:59.519
I'm carrying that weight, I'm carrying that responsibility.
00:22:59.839 --> 00:23:06.799
I think it was at work, but it wasn't that I noticed it when I was doing.
00:23:07.279 --> 00:23:11.119
It's I noticed it when I wasn't doing that.
00:23:11.839 --> 00:23:17.519
So I went through a particular training where they taught us active listening.
00:23:17.839 --> 00:23:23.599
And I realized, oh shit, like I'm not, I am not listening.
00:23:23.680 --> 00:23:34.799
I'm always thinking about what to say next, how to make sure that people around me are feeling okay and happy and seen and heard, and all, you know, that role that I was playing.
00:23:34.960 --> 00:23:41.039
And I realized, oh wow, this feels so much better in my body, you know.
00:23:41.119 --> 00:23:59.519
And I know and this was already, I was in New York and I was working with this Swedish company, and and yeah, and they were we were teaching participants how to leaders actually, how to do be more present and and listen deeply.
00:23:59.599 --> 00:24:04.240
Like we're talking about the four levels of deep listening.
00:24:04.559 --> 00:24:08.400
And I thought, oh wow, I I don't listen.
00:24:08.559 --> 00:24:10.400
I just I'm not listening, I'm not present.
00:24:10.480 --> 00:24:14.960
I'm always thinking about the next minute, not the current minute.
00:24:15.200 --> 00:24:23.839
Uh yeah I bet, I bet that so many of our listeners can relate to this, not being present.
00:24:24.400 --> 00:24:27.519
Um what what was the cost of it in parenting?
00:24:27.680 --> 00:24:29.039
You mentioned parenting earlier.
00:24:29.279 --> 00:24:33.680
Can you mention one example, something where you felt like I'm not being present here?
00:24:33.839 --> 00:24:35.920
I oh so many.
00:24:36.720 --> 00:24:42.400
Yes, so many because the thing is with um the kids.
00:24:45.200 --> 00:24:50.880
My my my role also became this like entertainer, making sure they're fine, making sure they're safe.
00:24:51.039 --> 00:24:54.720
Like my mom was a bit of an overprotector.
00:24:55.039 --> 00:24:58.319
She she still is to my older brother, actually.
00:24:58.880 --> 00:25:01.519
And and to me in a way, and to my kids, right?
00:25:01.599 --> 00:25:06.559
Like that's her her mode to be like super protective.
00:25:07.119 --> 00:25:18.880
And what I think what the reaction of the children, and you know, when I started noticing was that they were saying, you are constantly thinking about what's next.
00:25:19.039 --> 00:25:21.680
Like it's never about where we are right now.
00:25:21.839 --> 00:25:30.720
You know, I'm telling you a story about this, and then you're already like cheerleading and then saying, okay, but next, this is you know, this is gonna happen.
00:25:30.799 --> 00:25:31.759
Oh wow, this is great.
00:25:31.839 --> 00:25:33.680
You got amazing grades.
00:25:34.400 --> 00:25:37.039
Now, what's the next class you're gonna take?
00:25:37.119 --> 00:25:39.680
Should should you go for like another AP next semester?
00:25:39.759 --> 00:25:45.839
And and they're like, why can you just like celebrate this good grade that I got right now?
00:25:45.920 --> 00:25:51.519
Like, why are we talking about in such a high hyped way, you know?
00:25:51.680 --> 00:25:53.359
Like, can we just be chill?
00:25:53.519 --> 00:25:58.720
Like the the the words of my kids have used the most with me is like just be chill.
00:25:59.839 --> 00:26:01.119
They're the best, right?
00:26:01.200 --> 00:26:04.559
At telling exactly what where's the work?
00:26:05.200 --> 00:26:06.079
Yeah, yeah.
00:26:07.519 --> 00:26:10.240
And what finally broke the spell then?
00:26:10.319 --> 00:26:13.599
To like, hey, I've got to change.
00:26:15.119 --> 00:26:17.359
I don't think there's one moment.
00:26:17.519 --> 00:26:24.000
I mean, maybe maybe you've had guests here who are like can pinpoint to the exact moment.
00:26:25.279 --> 00:26:41.680
For me, it has been a super gradual progress and process where I've started recognizing my patterns and working with them and realizing oh, they are deeply, deeply rooted.
00:26:41.920 --> 00:26:57.680
And I have to almost like swim upstream to be able to, you know, use them in a different way because I I now know that they're not going to go away as as much as I wish they would go completely away.
00:26:58.400 --> 00:27:10.400
So then the instinct is to go there, and then the work that I'm doing is to like realize them when they come up, notice them and be like, okay, there you are.
00:27:10.559 --> 00:27:12.079
Of course, of course, here you are.
00:27:12.240 --> 00:27:17.599
My daughter's telling me something about something amazing, and I'm thinking about, okay, what's next?
00:27:17.839 --> 00:27:23.039
And now I'm able to calm myself because even if I don't say it, they feel it.
00:27:23.279 --> 00:27:26.559
That's the thing with the nervous system in the in your children, right?
00:27:26.720 --> 00:27:29.839
They feel exactly, they know, they know you so well.
00:27:31.200 --> 00:27:41.279
And so I'm able to recognize when they are coming up, you know, almost like self-regulate and and be there, be present uh with them.
00:27:41.440 --> 00:27:47.359
So I don't think there's a moment, I think it's it's been 10 years or more.
00:27:48.559 --> 00:27:52.480
Yeah, I think it has been longer now that um that I've been doing this work.
00:27:53.039 --> 00:28:02.160
And to your point, actually, I'd say it's more common than not, that it's not one defining moment, but a journey.
00:28:02.400 --> 00:28:06.960
And that's what makes actually cycle breaking so hard because it's such a process.
00:28:07.119 --> 00:28:13.359
You wish that you could we could push a button and oh, once we recognize it, it's all change.
00:28:14.240 --> 00:28:15.759
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:46.400
That yeah, the one thing that I've been able to break, and I'm very proud of, and it has nothing to do with the story I've told you, and maybe everything to do with the story I've told you, is that I don't think it's only my family, but in Peru, you know, Catholic culture, my family wasn't religious, obviously, because they were more like spiritual, but this whole guilt tripping, oh yeah, threatening if you don't do this, I that, you know, I I you're this is gonna happen to you, but then they never they never happened.
00:28:46.559 --> 00:28:49.839
So it was just always, it was always a fucking threat.
00:28:50.160 --> 00:28:50.880
Threat.
00:28:51.279 --> 00:28:55.039
Um, I've been able to break that.
00:28:55.119 --> 00:29:02.240
And and yesterday one of my kids was doing it to my other kid, and I said, I know you've learned that from me.
00:29:02.960 --> 00:29:04.799
I know, I know you've learned it from me.
00:29:04.960 --> 00:29:15.359
I can tell you it doesn't work, it doesn't work for you, especially because you're the one worked up, and the other person is like, I don't care, you're threatening me, and it really means nothing.
00:29:15.759 --> 00:29:21.680
And it doesn't work for your sibling or your spouse, you know, whoever you're gonna be interacting with.
00:29:22.480 --> 00:29:24.480
All my children are going to therapy.
00:29:24.559 --> 00:29:38.079
And so I'm sharing this with you because in the most loving conversation with my my daughter, who was doing the same thing I was doing years ago, I said, I don't know, maybe something to explore in therapy.
00:29:38.160 --> 00:29:41.039
And she was like, Yeah, I can see that.
00:29:41.200 --> 00:29:41.839
I can see that.
00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:46.640
And then she's like, Well, thanks so much for this, like for giving it to me.
00:29:46.720 --> 00:29:48.960
And I was like, Well, now it's yours, right?
00:29:49.039 --> 00:29:53.440
Like, now it's your responsibility to work through it.
00:29:53.519 --> 00:30:06.000
Um, but I I love love that I that's not even coming up for me anymore as an option, like the threatening, like I have been able to really work through that one and break that cycle.
00:30:06.160 --> 00:30:10.720
It's so liberating because that that was my thing to go to, you know.
00:30:10.880 --> 00:30:14.480
If you don't do this, uh, you know, I you're what what helped you?
00:30:14.640 --> 00:30:16.480
Yeah, what helped you conquer?
00:30:16.640 --> 00:30:22.000
You mentioned you said earlier, going against uh the stream, upstream almost.
00:30:22.079 --> 00:30:22.160
Yeah.
00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:24.640
Like what helped you with this one in particular?
00:30:24.799 --> 00:30:29.839
What would you say supported you the most to really break free from that pattern?
00:30:31.759 --> 00:30:34.319
I think a couple a couple of things.
00:30:34.799 --> 00:30:38.720
Um my work with I think Dr.
00:30:38.880 --> 00:31:03.359
Shafali and the the beauty of something unveiling where she taught us, me, you, everybody who's been working with her that these children are themselves and they're sovereign, you know, like they they have their own, yeah, they're whole.
00:31:04.000 --> 00:31:19.839
And and how poisonous that particular pattern was to them, but also to me, it was exhausting because I mean that that is when my nervous system would be really charged, and even telling you right now, like I feel it in my body.
00:31:20.640 --> 00:31:36.400
And so, in a way, if we continue using the upstream metaphor, I guess this work has helped me float, you know, be like, okay, instead of swimming upwards, I'm just gonna turn around and float.
00:31:36.640 --> 00:31:40.240
I was just in Switzerland, and in Switzerland they have these like rivers that you can float.
00:31:40.480 --> 00:31:41.119
Streams, yeah.
00:31:41.359 --> 00:31:42.480
Yeah, you can float.
00:31:42.640 --> 00:31:56.880
And that visual is like, oh, yeah, I'm just floating and also realizing, first of all, it doesn't help anyone, like it's just hurtful to the children, and it's fear-based parenting, and it's awful.
00:31:57.039 --> 00:32:01.440
Yeah, it's awful to my children, you know, it's awful to them, it's awful to me.
00:32:01.759 --> 00:32:09.200
And then because I've never learned how to set boundaries, in reality, the threat was just nothing because it was smoke.
00:32:10.079 --> 00:32:46.000
Because it never be it never became a thing, it never became punishment or a uh consequence, it was just ammunition, and I don't want to, I didn't want I wanted, I really wanted to stop raising my kids in that way because I was that kid, you know, where I was threatened constantly, not just in my house, but also in school, because I you know I was so hyper and I was always rocking the boat and energetic, and and I was the one always being like Swain, because in Peru they call you by your last name, at least in that school.
00:32:46.480 --> 00:32:50.799
Swain, you're gonna be punished, and you're gonna be kicked out of school and kicked out of class.
00:32:50.960 --> 00:32:55.519
And I don't know, there's nothing that comes out of threats that is good, you know.
00:32:55.680 --> 00:33:05.759
If anything, you you are raising kids who are who have more of a fixed mindset than the opportunity of believing that they can do things differently, you know?
00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:07.920
Yeah, with labels, right?
00:33:08.160 --> 00:33:11.680
What label, what label would you say you were growing up with?
00:33:12.400 --> 00:33:16.400
I am ah malcriada, but I don't know how to say it.
00:33:17.279 --> 00:33:19.279
Um mischievous, mischievous.
00:33:21.920 --> 00:33:22.720
How funny.
00:33:23.359 --> 00:33:24.000
Yeah.
00:33:24.960 --> 00:33:38.319
Oh exactly, and I'm hearing that you know the for that one, for that particular pattern, you were not, you did not have fear to change.
00:33:38.480 --> 00:33:44.319
Sometimes we fear that with a change, oh my god, because we don't know it's unfamiliar.
00:33:44.480 --> 00:33:45.839
How is it gonna be otherwise?
00:33:46.000 --> 00:33:49.440
If I'm not being this way, what are my kids gonna turn out?
00:33:49.599 --> 00:33:51.279
But that that was not there.
00:33:51.839 --> 00:33:52.640
Is that true?
00:33:52.799 --> 00:33:54.480
Or how how were you?
00:33:54.880 --> 00:34:08.079
Yeah, no, that they that was it just became very clear that oh, I think another thing that happened is I realized also that was pushing my kids away from me.
00:34:08.480 --> 00:34:10.000
Rather than disconnect, yeah.
00:34:10.159 --> 00:34:11.679
Yeah, it was complete disconnect.
00:34:11.760 --> 00:34:16.239
And my goal was to be, it still is, to be connected with them.
00:34:16.400 --> 00:34:21.280
Yeah, and that was yeah, having the opposite effect.
00:34:21.599 --> 00:34:41.519
And I've seen it in other parents and other households, and I can see the children completely disconnected from their parents, and I I really did not want to be that person, that or that really I I don't I didn't want to have that relationship, not just be that person, and that's a that's a huge cost, right?
00:34:41.599 --> 00:34:43.599
It's your relationship with your child, yeah.
00:34:43.679 --> 00:34:44.000
Exactly.
00:34:44.159 --> 00:34:45.280
Um that's what I'm hearing.
00:34:45.920 --> 00:34:47.039
Yeah, yeah.
00:34:47.920 --> 00:34:52.719
Okay, so maybe that's why it was like, okay, this one is easy, it's so clear.
00:34:53.519 --> 00:34:55.760
Yeah, makes sense.
00:34:56.239 --> 00:35:02.559
What did you discover you couldn't control in in all of this?
00:35:03.119 --> 00:35:04.400
In your journey.
00:35:07.280 --> 00:35:08.800
That's a great question.
00:35:12.960 --> 00:35:15.599
I think it has to do with what others do, right?
00:35:15.679 --> 00:35:22.000
Like I cannot control how others react or whatever others do, but I I how they feel, yeah.
00:35:22.239 --> 00:35:23.519
How they feel, exactly.
00:35:24.800 --> 00:35:33.760
But I could I could definitely control how I'm showing up and what what the way that I'm showing up as a ripple effect.
00:35:33.920 --> 00:35:38.639
I don't know why I'm why I have so many water metaphors today, but look at you.
00:35:38.960 --> 00:35:39.599
Summer.
00:35:39.840 --> 00:35:45.679
It's summer, exactly, as a ripple effect, you know, my actions, what they have on them.
00:35:46.239 --> 00:35:54.159
So yeah, I cannot control how they feel or how people act, but I can control how I'm showing up in situations.
00:35:54.320 --> 00:35:54.880
Yeah.
00:35:55.199 --> 00:35:58.880
And also, I can sometimes I cannot control.
00:35:59.199 --> 00:36:06.880
I don't know why I went there when you asked me the question, but like when I'm the more tired I am, the more my patterns show up.
00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:13.039
So I've realized that there's there's uh very little consciousness when I'm tired.
00:36:13.280 --> 00:36:22.400
So I'm not able to control those patterns and those things, site, you know, patterns that I need to break, they really show up.
00:36:22.559 --> 00:36:30.159
So I try to be just quiet at night when I'm tired, when I come back from a trip, or yeah.
00:36:30.719 --> 00:36:37.280
Uh so I've learned that in that moment there is no I can't control those patterns.
00:36:37.599 --> 00:36:40.000
Good for you for recognizing it, right?
00:36:40.320 --> 00:36:43.119
Uh it's our job to recognize this.
00:36:43.360 --> 00:36:53.119
And I hear a lot of, I'm perceiving a lot of connection between your you, you very connected to your body and how that's showing up, how things are showing up.
00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:56.800
Uh, what would you attribute this to?
00:36:57.039 --> 00:37:02.559
Because some so many of us are so much in our heads and not connected to our bodies.
00:37:03.119 --> 00:37:14.000
I to me it has to do, it's very, very connected to the work I have done with Gabor Mate and the training that we did.
00:37:14.079 --> 00:37:42.400
It was, you know, a year long, and it was all about the body, like getting out of your head, going into the body, and having this attunement with, in my case, where things start, you know, where everybody has the ability to recognize when a pattern is about to show up, when we are feeling triggered, we it it's always in the body.
00:37:42.559 --> 00:37:51.119
So for me, the there's some triggers that start in my jaw, there's some triggers that start in my stomach.
00:37:51.519 --> 00:37:54.960
And to me, I see that as a as a red flag.
00:37:55.039 --> 00:38:03.840
And again, I'm gonna go back to the metaphor of the water, but like you know how at the beach you have the the red flag or the yellow flag or the green flag.
00:38:04.159 --> 00:38:22.480
The tide is the tide, the tide is about to be a tsunami, and I I better not have important conversations right now, or you know, I need to also allow that feeling to be and just become really curious about okay, what what is happening?
00:38:22.639 --> 00:38:24.400
What is happening in the body?
00:38:25.440 --> 00:38:33.519
Um, so yeah, I've been able to do a lot of work with that and not fight the body sensation.
00:38:34.400 --> 00:38:38.320
But like Gabra Mate says, you know, tension requires attention.
00:38:38.639 --> 00:38:39.679
And I love that.
00:38:39.840 --> 00:38:42.320
I I'm like, okay, there it is.
00:38:42.719 --> 00:38:44.159
Let me pay attention to it.
00:38:44.239 --> 00:38:52.960
Let me not fight it, let me sit with it, you know, tell my kids I need to go to the bathroom or go on a run or whatever it is that needs to happen.
00:38:53.119 --> 00:39:07.119
But that I in that moment, in that moment, I'm I'm not being able to act from a conscious place because it's almost like instinctual, right?
00:39:07.360 --> 00:39:10.400
It's part of my animal reaction in that moment.
00:39:10.800 --> 00:39:11.199
Survival.
00:39:11.440 --> 00:39:11.840
Survival.
00:39:12.079 --> 00:39:13.280
It's survival, exactly.
00:39:13.360 --> 00:39:14.480
It's visceral.
00:39:14.800 --> 00:39:29.679
And when we are acting from that place, until we regulate or until I regulate, speaking for myself, I'm not able to have a couple of things that are required to build strong relationships, right?
00:39:29.760 --> 00:39:31.840
Like curiosity, compassion, kindness.
00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:32.400
I can't.
00:39:32.480 --> 00:39:40.079
I just it's the heart is beating too fast, the jaw is too tight, nothing good is gonna come out.
00:39:40.159 --> 00:39:46.400
You know, it's it's the ocean is really not a good place to go and swim at that moment.
00:39:46.480 --> 00:39:49.119
So yeah, yeah, I love how you paint this picture.
00:39:49.280 --> 00:39:54.559
I could just so simply, I can picture it exactly happening, right?
00:39:54.639 --> 00:40:01.360
Like it's not in we're not in a in a good place when we are tense already, right?
00:40:01.599 --> 00:40:01.920
Coming.
00:40:02.639 --> 00:40:04.639
So you're recognizing this.
00:40:04.800 --> 00:40:13.840
And how did the people so sorry for interrupting you, but yeah, you know, before that was exciting for me.
00:40:14.079 --> 00:40:14.559
Uh-huh.
00:40:14.880 --> 00:40:22.079
So, because I I grew up in that place where it's like all feisty and conflict, and you know, not always again, but familiar.
00:40:23.039 --> 00:40:25.360
It was very, yeah, it was very familiar.
00:40:25.599 --> 00:40:32.239
So actually, before doing this work with the body and everything, it was like, ah, let's go.
00:40:32.480 --> 00:40:35.119
And I would be like, we have to speak right now.
00:40:35.280 --> 00:40:40.159
And I would walk into my children's room and be like, this conversation needs to happen right now.
00:40:40.719 --> 00:40:51.679
Instead of now I can say, okay, maybe I need weeks to have this conversation for my nervous system to regulate, you know, maybe and they also need time.
00:40:52.639 --> 00:41:08.000
So that is a very nice place to be floating in the ocean where the flag is green and it's like green, no waves.
00:41:08.320 --> 00:41:09.679
And I have a question.
00:41:09.840 --> 00:41:11.760
This uh twofold.
00:41:12.400 --> 00:41:21.360
One, like how did the people around you uh react as you were making these changes in your life?
00:41:21.519 --> 00:41:23.519
Both, so I say it's twofold.
00:41:23.679 --> 00:41:35.199
I'm curious of how did the people around you shift or responded in your family of origin and also your current family, like your with your kids.
00:41:36.400 --> 00:41:44.639
Like, yeah, with my family of origin, I mean, my mom started going to coaching as well.
00:41:44.719 --> 00:41:46.800
At her, she was what, 73?
00:41:47.679 --> 00:41:59.440
And um, my brothers also have done like compassionate inquiry coaching, and and I think you had her as a guest here, actually, Leslie.
00:42:00.559 --> 00:42:01.679
One of my brothers.
00:42:02.000 --> 00:42:06.079
So, yeah, so that that is the the change.
00:42:06.239 --> 00:42:09.679
I think I'm also able to set more boundaries.
00:42:09.840 --> 00:42:15.280
Like, for example, triangulation is a thing, a pattern that my family has, like my family of origin.
00:42:16.079 --> 00:42:17.039
And I've cut that.
00:42:17.119 --> 00:42:23.119
I'm like, talk to the person directly or tell them to talk to me directly, because again, in that drama, right?
00:42:23.199 --> 00:42:34.400
That that that beautiful like tension where I could come in and be like the like hey, everyone's okay, let me solve it, let me fix it.
00:42:34.559 --> 00:42:38.159
Now it's like, nah, I don't I don't fall into that anymore.
00:42:38.480 --> 00:42:50.880
And then with my family, I think, yeah, deeper, deeper connections with my husband, with my kids, stronger relationships.
00:42:51.119 --> 00:43:05.440
Um I think I'm able to draw them to me now rather than uh deter them away, or like you know, make them not want to be connected to me.
00:43:06.960 --> 00:43:19.440
Because I think they feel safe, they feel seen, and and it is a yeah, it it I'm showing up present and with a way, way, way more regulated nervous system.
00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:27.920
But now the interesting thing is anytime there's a spike, so anytime there's a bit of a wave, they feel it more now.
00:43:28.800 --> 00:43:30.639
And I bet you feel it more too.
00:43:30.880 --> 00:43:34.320
Yeah, so they're like, whoa, like what what the heck?
00:43:34.400 --> 00:43:39.039
You know, like why is that like sparking or like happening?
00:43:39.519 --> 00:43:41.039
So it's interesting.
00:43:41.440 --> 00:43:44.239
It's interesting how they're noticing it more now.
00:43:44.400 --> 00:43:50.719
I I noticed a few days ago actually, um one of my kids mentioning that.
00:43:50.880 --> 00:43:58.079
And not mentioning, hey, I've noticed that you don't do it as much, and now I notice it when it happens, but but being like, whoa, like what's going on?
00:43:58.719 --> 00:43:59.760
Yeah, interesting.
00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:03.039
Because they're not used to that environment anymore.
00:44:03.360 --> 00:44:04.400
That's beautiful.
00:44:04.800 --> 00:44:10.239
So kind of along these lines, but I want you to think about this one, Hazel.
00:44:10.719 --> 00:44:11.840
What ends with you?
00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:15.039
If this work continues, what ends with you?
00:44:16.239 --> 00:44:21.119
I think a few things already have ended, as I've shared.
00:44:21.679 --> 00:44:25.679
But the one I'm working on currently is healthy boundaries.
00:44:26.000 --> 00:44:28.880
So meaning not having healthy boundaries.
00:44:29.360 --> 00:44:31.760
Because I see it in my children already.
00:44:32.079 --> 00:44:38.000
And neither me or my husband have have learned how to set healthy boundaries.
00:44:38.159 --> 00:44:42.800
And we are working on it diligently, he and I.
00:44:42.960 --> 00:44:48.239
So that's it's beautiful because it's it's the two of us, right?
00:44:48.320 --> 00:44:52.800
Coming together to end that a cycle that we both share.
00:44:53.360 --> 00:44:53.679
Yeah.
00:44:54.159 --> 00:44:59.199
And how will the next generation then feel the difference if they end, if you end this?
00:45:00.719 --> 00:45:09.679
They would have healthier relationships because when the boundaries are not set, when healthy boundaries aren't set, you know, people can walk all over you.
00:45:09.840 --> 00:45:15.599
So more genuine, more truthful relationships, right?
00:45:16.000 --> 00:45:16.800
Exactly, yes.
00:45:16.960 --> 00:45:21.599
Yeah, because they might seem like a good relationship, but it it might not be underneath.
00:45:22.400 --> 00:45:22.719
Yeah.
00:45:22.960 --> 00:45:24.719
Oh, that's beautiful.
00:45:25.039 --> 00:45:27.599
Thank you so much for thank you.
00:45:27.920 --> 00:45:29.039
Sharing here.
00:45:29.280 --> 00:45:35.679
You have so much to offer to this world and contribute with your own experiences, I feel.
00:45:35.920 --> 00:45:52.239
Hazel, something she didn't mention is that she has five kids of and she's raised five kids, they're all now teenagers or young adults, and yes, um, there's so much just right there to pick from, right?
00:45:52.639 --> 00:46:05.039
Yeah, if you if we choose to see it that way, and I can absolutely see how you have chosen that path of seeing your kids as your teachers and for life.
00:46:05.199 --> 00:46:07.280
Yeah, they deserve it.
00:46:07.760 --> 00:46:09.519
Yeah, thank you.
00:46:09.760 --> 00:46:11.119
Thank you so much.
00:46:12.400 --> 00:46:20.159
Before we wrap up, I'd love to leave you with one reflection that stayed with me after the conversation today with Hazel.
00:46:20.960 --> 00:46:33.840
And one of the most powerful ideas Hazel shared here today is that our patterns often live in our nervous system way before they ever become conscious thoughts.
00:46:34.159 --> 00:46:37.920
Our body actually knows before our mind does.
00:46:38.320 --> 00:46:49.119
How often do we feel our jaws tightening or our shoulders tense or our stomach not a knot in our stomach or our hearts racing?
00:46:49.519 --> 00:46:53.039
And we simply push through, ignore it.
00:46:53.280 --> 00:47:00.880
I wonder what if those sensations are an inconveniences to ignore, but invitations to pay attention.
00:47:01.360 --> 00:47:13.280
Hazel described growing up in an environment where on the surface everything seemed fine and it worked for her then, yet her body never fully felt safe.
00:47:13.519 --> 00:47:25.039
It wasn't until she began listening to those physical cues instead of dismissing them that she realized they were pointing her towards patterns she had been carrying for decades.
00:47:25.760 --> 00:47:30.000
And that's what I find so hopeful about her story.
00:47:30.800 --> 00:47:36.239
Cycle breaking isn't only about understanding where our patterns are coming from.
00:47:36.400 --> 00:47:39.840
It is about practicing a different way of being.
00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:42.159
That's the reparting phase.
00:47:42.400 --> 00:47:46.159
Instead of reacting, we learn to regulate.
00:47:46.559 --> 00:47:51.280
Instead of people pleasing, we practice healthy boundaries.
00:47:51.519 --> 00:47:57.440
Instead of performing to keep everyone happy, we become fully present.
00:47:57.920 --> 00:48:06.800
Instead of parenting from fear, guilt, or threats, like Hazel so well explained here, we choose connection.
00:48:07.360 --> 00:48:17.199
And perhaps most importantly, we learn to notice what's happening inside our bodies before those inherited patterns take over.
00:48:18.400 --> 00:48:24.159
Integration work, healing work rarely happens in one defining moment.
00:48:25.039 --> 00:48:36.800
More often, as you have seen throughout the various episodes here at It Ends With You, it's built through thousands of small conscious choices.
00:48:37.039 --> 00:48:48.960
Every time we pause, we listen to our body and choose differently, we are creating a new path, not only for ourselves, but for the generations that follow.
00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:04.079
Thank you so much for listening to It Ends With You.
00:49:04.400 --> 00:49:12.239
If you enjoyed today's conversation, do please consider subscribing, leaving a review, or sharing it with someone you love.
00:49:12.400 --> 00:49:16.239
It truly helps this message reach the people who need it most.
00:49:16.480 --> 00:49:21.760
I should note that this podcast is for reflection and educational purposes only.
00:49:22.079 --> 00:49:27.280
It is not a substitute for therapy, medical care, or professional mental health support.
00:49:27.519 --> 00:49:36.000
If you're looking for deeper support in the cycle breaking and parenting space, you can explore coaching and resources at branchout.life.
00:49:36.239 --> 00:49:41.760
It ends with you, it's created by Branch Out Coaching and produced by Rob Gregerson.
00:49:42.239 --> 00:49:48.159
Until next time, and remember, when you choose differently, the cycle begins to end.
