OM DENNE EPISODE
In this episode of Innovating Education, Dr. Riley Williams sits down with Rob McLeod, international educator, school leader, and host of the Reinventing Education podcast, to unpack his “Three Types of Schools” model: Expert, Coach, and Counselor. Rob explains how each school type shapes structures, roles, and decision-making—and why clarity about your dominant model can reduce friction, deepen relationships, and improve learning experiences.
The conversation connects these frameworks to student agency and democratic education, drawing on examples from the IB Primary Years Programme (PYP), sociocratic practices highlighted in the School Circles documentary, and self-directed learning ideas inspired by Ivan Illich’s Deschooling Society. Rob and Riley explore how intentional school design can reduce teacher burnout, support collaboration, and give students more voice, choice, and ownership in their learning.
Key takeaways:
- What defines Expert, Coach, and Counselor schools—and how each model influences culture, hierarchy, and classroom practice.
- Strategies for aligning school design to a clear model to lessen burnout and confusion for staff.
- How principles from the PYP and democratic education (including sociocracy and circles) can strengthen student agency.
- Why self-directed learning and community decision-making matter for the future of schooling, echoing themes from Deschooling Society and School Circles.
Learn more from Rob McLeod:
- Podcast: Reinventing Education – https://feed.podbean.com/reinventingeducationpodcast/feed.xml
