OM DENNE EPISODE
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OverviewRob and Greg open with Greg's car breaking down in 112-degree heat outside Barstow, then dig into the FTC's settlement with Zillow and Redfin over their leasing business deal, which regulators viewed as an attempt to dodge merger review. From there, the two spend most of the episode debating a bigger question raised by Rob's recent exchange with Mike Wurzer: did the MLS create genuinely new value by aggregating listings, or was that value always meant for real estate professionals rather than consumers? The conversation ranges across aggregation theory, the history of IDX and portal dominance (Zillow, Redfin, realtor.com), whether companies like House Canary and paper brokerages even qualify as "brokerages," and the 2008 DOJ settlement's actual scope. It closes with a debate over how to legally define a broker at all.
Key Takeaways- The FTC pushed back on Zillow's attempt to acquire Redfin's leasing business without triggering merger review; the settlement requires Redfin to restart its own rental business, though it can still display Zillow rental listings.
- Rob calls the $100M settlement a "slap on the wrist" rather than a real penalty for either company.
- Rob's central argument: the MLS's aggregation of listings created value primarily for practitioners, comparable to Lexis Nexis and Westlaw's value to lawyers, not inherent value for consumers.
- Greg counters that aggregation itself creates new value regardless of who captures it, and that consumers clearly benefit from having listings in one place.
- The two trace the history of real estate going online — IDX, the rise of Zillow, Redfin, and realtor.com — and agree the portals won because they outspent brokerages on user experience.
- Rob argues the industry should unwind IDX in favor of straight data syndication to portals, separating "cooperation" (MLS's original purpose) from "data distribution" (a later add-on).
- Greg pushes back that most agents don't actually get leads from portals directly, but Rob argues that undercuts the case for IDX mattering to them at all.
- A long tangent debates whether entities like House Canary or paper brokerages qualify as "brokerages," and whether the 2008 DOJ settlement (about brokerage business-model discrimination) supports keeping IDX — Rob says no, Greg disagrees.
- The episode ends unresolved, with both agreeing to continue the debate and possibly bring Mike Wurzer on to discuss further.
Links
Debating Rob Hahn In Ohio: Are MLSs Killing Themselves?
Continuing the Debate with Mike Wurzer
Connect with Rob and Greg
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