Crafting Messages with Purpose and Personality with Anita Siek
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: [00:00:00] Hi, Anita. Thank you so much for coming on the feel good social podcast lady. I'm so excited to have you here.
Anita: Hey, you so much. I am feeling good.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: Oh yeah. Guys, we are going to have the bubbly energy in today's conversation. Anita and I were already chatting. Yeah. So it's going to be great. Oh my gosh. I love you so much. Okay. Anyway. Okay. Let's introduce you. So I did already just share a little bit about you in the intro, but I'd love to hear from you.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: Who are you? What do you do? Tell us a little bit about yourself. Silence.
Anita: Hi everyone. My name is Anita. I am the founder of Wordfetti. What we do at Wordfetti is we teach brands that kind of want to zeek one another's egg how they can stand out and make more sales through the power of psychology and words.
Anita: So I'm deeply fascinated by why people buy, why people don't. [00:01:00] So a lot of what we teach and what we're all about is ingrained in psychology. So yeah, now we teach businesses and copywriters and marketers. I guess a lot of the methodology around psychology backs copy empathy based human nised language and copy all of that.
Anita: So I think, you know, words at the end of the day, this is something I'm so passionate about. It's like words are the central medium in which how you and I. Connect, communicate, and share ideas, you know, it's like this free tool we all have, that we all use every single day to connect and communicate.
Anita: And I think it's so important that we're intentional with the language that we use every day but also obviously in our marketing and in how we're selling. So yeah, all things work.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: And my audience knows too that I'm totally a word nerd. I think a lot of us are. So guys, it's going to be getting nerdy up in [00:02:00] here. And I just have to say too, I love your name, Word Fetty as well, because it does, it just brings that like. Enthusiastic personality that I know you bring to the table through the word that like you word Smith, I'm like geeking out and getting meta over here.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: But anyway, I do like to kick off these conversations, but just asking you about like your journey and entrepreneurship, how have you gotten to where you are today? What does that look like for you lady?
Anita: Yay. I wish I could tell you I woke up and was like, oh my gosh, I'm going to be a copywriter. That's exactly what I'm going to do. It was not like that. It was a very nonlinear journey to Doing what I do. So I started Wordfetti eight years ago, and it was actually a side hustle. I started, it was my third side hustle, actually.
Anita: And to be failed in case you're wondering. And I was actually a lawyer. So I worked in corporate I worked in [00:03:00] government and I was a lawyer. A lot of people are surprised when I tell them, they're like, you do not have the personality of a lawyer. And I'm like, I agree. Yes, I agree. So I, yeah, I worked in policy.
Anita: I worked in a number of our, like a number of different departments including domestic and family violence to strategic policy in, in, in government which look, it was very rewarding. And I studied like a good, so I studied law and psychology in university took me six and a half years for two very expensive pieces of paper. No idea where they are. But it was rewarding work, but it just. It was missing the zing factor for me. So that was the biggest reason why I had these creative side hustles. Like I did photography at one stage which is crazy because I remember going to weddings and just taking photos during the weekend after my corporate job I started business with my mom at one stage.
Anita: I actually, I had three other [00:04:00] side hustles, but the other one I'm still kind of doing, I used to food blog and vlog. Quite a lot. Like in the realm of food and travel. Yeah, I had all these creative outlets because I felt like I wasn't tapping into them. So when Fetty came along, that was eight years ago and originally grew as an agency.
Anita: Around four years into the business, I actually paused and considered, well, hang on a second. Like what does success actually mean for me? Because I, Yeah, like I, I don't know, it sounds so obvious, but I don't think I ever paused to consider what success meant for me and I was just growing this agency when that just didn't feel aligned.
Anita: I'm like, why, why am I not like, content? Like why does this feel off? So that's where we, you know, really refined what we did to teaching. And here we are today. Yes.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: Yes, I'll be in in so many little parts of that journey are like just so. Relatable for so many of us from like, you [00:05:00] know, having different passions to kind of splatting spaghetti on the wall to see like, where do I want to follow my creativity to, you know, I went through that as well with like, whenever I first started feel good social and I kind of, you know, everyone was teaching the agency model and like, this is what you want to do to scale and stuff.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: And it took me a while.
Anita: right?
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: Yeah. And I was like no, I don't think so. You know, so like really just giving ourselves permission to find out whatever is going to work for us and also pivot when we need to pivot. I love that so much. But I want to talk to you a little bit about kind of the psychology behind like Crafting your messaging and finding those words that are right for you.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: You know what I mean? Like, what does your process look like when it comes to helping other people do that?
Anita: Yeah. Well, I would first of all say like, when it comes to writing in a way that feels good, I think so often [00:06:00] people jump straight to, Oh, I got to find the right words. I've got to find the right language. Like, what should I say? How should I say it? When really, I think the first step is you've really going to be obsessed with. Two things beforehand. One, the audience that you're serving, you've got to be obsessed with them. That's number one, like so obsessed that you're just like, Oh wow. Like you, you think that way, you're probably going to feel this way. If you look at this word, like, and then you've got to be obsessed with the problem that you're actually solving for this person, this human, because. At the end of the day, we are all in the business of problem solving. Okay. Like all of us or not you like it or not, you're in the business of problem solving yourself. You've got a solution to a problem that someone has. So unless you're really obsessed with the problem you're solving, how this is showing up in your audience's world, why they should be prioritizing it right now and all of that. And really obsessed also with the [00:07:00] audience that you're serving. It's actually going to be very hard for you to articulate the language and the words. To communicate with them, to converse with them, because ultimately that is what writing copy, creating content, writing content is all about, it's really continuing a lot of that conversation that is already in that person's mind, or they're worried about their thinking, but not saying, so, know, first big part of the process is to get geeky and to get it. All up in someone's brain, in someone's mind, in understanding why they think the way they, that they do. And why do they buy certain things and why they don't buy. And one of the things that I love to do and something I hop on with my students and my members is. You know, excavating the language that your audience are using to describe their pain point.
Anita: Like they might not say, I need to find a copywriter. If you're a [00:08:00] copywriter, they might be like, I feel so stuck with the words that I'm using for my business, or I feel stuck with trying to communicate what I'm trying to say. Like, so really think about like the language that they use, or they might be like, I feel like I. we'll write something and then I'll just like backspace. I feel like I'm scattered brains every single time I want to write about my business. I feel stuck when I write about my business. So like really consider that your audience is using and a really simple way. One of my favorite, most practical ways is to, you know, more questions with your audience and really consider how they respond to it. So, for example, if someone and getting curious with the two, I might say, because when someone is like I'm trying to think of an example, but it's like, This is out of my budget. As an example, a lot of the time businesses will look at that and be like, Oh no, I [00:09:00] need to change my price. I need to discount.
Anita: I need to like slash this off to 1 cent. No, like that, that's not the case. Like when someone says this is out of my budget, chances are. You might not have look, you might be outside of their budget. That's 100%. You might just be outside of the budget for some people, but sometimes it could also be the fact that you haven't actually communicated the value. Of your offer. And as a result, they don't prioritize it because they don't see it as a need. They see it as a want you're selling vitamin as opposed to selling the painkiller, you know what I mean? So it's like the little nuances of that. I find so fascinating, but I would say as a practical tip to any of your listeners, like just be obsessed with the conversations your audience are having and be obsessed with the problem that you're solving.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: Yeah, well, you know, it just popped up for me too. It's so funny. It's like the little nuances, like, okay. I literally [00:10:00] was just filling out someone's survey survey, you know, that you people send out start of the year surveys for customers and stuff. And one of the questions was like, what is. Like what would be holding you back from investing in this offer or something?
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: And she had like a few different canned responses. And then of course the other response where you can type in what you want and stuff. And one of the, one of the canned responses was like I can't afford this or like, you know, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, it. It's kind of that, but it's more like, is this investment worth it for me over all of the other priorities that I have?
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: Like, so that's what I typed into the box. I was like, it's not that like, is this worth it for me or is that, can I afford it? It's like, is this a higher priority than everything else that I need to invest in this year? Right.
Anita: And I think we need to be so careful with I'm all for these questionnaires, all for these insight surveys, but the way in which you frame the question, [00:11:00] you could literally be adding bias to it immediately just by how you're framing the question, how you're framing the question. mean, one suggestion I would have is not even do it as a multiple choice.
Anita: Like, why, why do it as a multiple choice? Like, just let your audience tell you. In words, why they're not committing, you know, and I would also say aside from cost. why, why not? Like, because cost is such a subjective thing. Like that should not be, if you stand by your product and you know, this is a value and this price feels good, price should not be the thing you even like test, like it's validated.
Anita: People have paid for it. You know, it's a value. People have told you about it. It should be aside from costs. Like, why didn't you join us? Why,
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: Yeah.
Anita: so subjective.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: Yeah. And often, exactly. That's kind of what I was thinking. It's like, well, she didn't even say how much the price was in the survey or whatever. So I was like, well, I don't really know, but like, it's more, it doesn't even matter the cost. It's like, is it worth it for like [00:12:00] my goals and stuff? But
Anita: it's
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: you know, something.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: Something else that popped up for me recently too is like lately I've been doing a lot of live workshops or like live coworking sessions and stuff. I'll, I'll host live workshops for authentic AI, or I'll do like this, get it done week for one of my courses after the fact, like when the doors, after the doors closed and stuff.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: And that I found has been an awesome way to really communicate with my people, like in that natural way. Yeah. And like paying attention to like the questions they're asking or like the wins that they're seeing and like specifically how they describe what's exciting for them or what's hard for them, you know?
Anita: Yeah. There's nothing better than to actually have like a, just like a live conversation with your audience. Like I, I remember doing. Like even literal, like one on ones in our membership where we just connected and talked and just the natural flow of conversation. Someone will say something and you're [00:13:00] like, Oh, what do you mean by that?
Anita: Can you tell me more about what you mean by this? You know,
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: Yeah.
Anita: dig a bit more. Yeah.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: Yeah. Tell me more is always a great follow up question. I love that. Oh my gosh. Okay. So I know we were chatting a little bit before we hit record and stuff about like kind of Sometimes what is stopping people from adding personality to their brand or showing up for their brand in a way that's like not necessarily generic and stuff like that.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: Like I know with like, you know, the, how crazy AI is getting in the online space, especially, I've heard this from so many people. People are like, Content like sucks lately. And this was one of my big worries with AI too is like, is it going to make the internet faker than it already is? You know, but like,
Anita: I could talk about that. Yeah.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: yeah,
Anita: Totally.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: yeah.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: So like, what are your thoughts on this? I guess. Yeah. Let's talk about it.
Anita: Yeah. I mean literally I think it was yesterday that I saw that there's like a 500 billion [00:14:00] boost in AI in it, yeah, I mean, crazy what feels crazy actually. So with. And we're feeling same, same and feeling like, I don't even know what to say anymore and feeling like you're in the flood of just same sameness. think as a result of that, like, I just want to quickly say, I love AI. I know you love AI too. Like I, I, I think it is, it has streamlined and has the ability to streamline and better like what we already do in like faster, more, more efficiently. Right. However, I think because of the overuse almost of AI and the reliance and over dependence of AI I worry that our content and our marketing and what we say is literally just like same, same. 10, like the words like elevate, [00:15:00] emojis, you know, like, it's all the same. Like I can
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: huh. Huh. Huh. Huh. Huh.
Anita: is really a tool to help you take, like, you've got to take the thinking to then use AI to then create the things that you've got to inject your thinking into it.
Anita: That's the thing that sets you apart. Why are you literally relying on a robot? That's like trawling through the internet to get you all the things. Like, why are you trying to go to an AI bot? To outsource your thinking and tell me all the things that's going to make it unique. It's not going to tell you things that are going to be unique because it's literally trolling through the interwebs to find all the existing things that are out there. So that's, I think that is what I think is a bit dangerous for businesses when they literally rely on AI for all of their ideas. For all of their strategy, for all of like the ways in which they can be different, you know, so and [00:16:00] I've said this previously, but more so even now, like, chat GPT is only as good or AI is only as good as what you put as the input, like the output is only as good as the input, you give it a crappy input, it's going to give you a crappy output I think there's that like the over reliance on AI for insight and perspective.
Anita: And I think this year, like more so this year, as ironic as it sounds, we are using more AI, we are using more of this, but we are, we are also craving more individualism, like the unique nuances of a person, the unique nuances of a brand, like, because of so much of this, like we're craving that. You know, human touch that is so like we can't automate that. It's the most non robotic thing. It is the most manual thing ever. We're craving that. I'm craving that, you know, where you get to have conversations like this, you get [00:17:00] to, you know, sit down and actually talk to someone and not be on your phone. Like, I think we're craving more of the individualism in a person and in a brand.
Anita: And I think. That is a missed opportunity for you as a business. If you're not up as just what feels good to you. And I know that's something we feel so aligned with. You can see you and I like, hello, feel good social. But it's like, you've got to feel. Instead of showing up as this person that you're supposed to show up as and what you see someone else in your industry is doing, like just embrace all of the unique nuances of you.
Anita: Like for me, that was such a massive exhale. Like when I was like, you know what? I'm just going to be that weirdo like online because that is me. You know, you either like it you don't but you know, like the full like HD version of you, please. Which is very hard to like, when you lean on chat, it's not going to be able to spit [00:18:00] that out, you know? So yeah, those are my, my thoughts like over reliance on AI. The dangers of that and also I just think that more than ever, we are embracing individualism and, and the unique nuances of people.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: Yeah.
Anita: that.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: Oh, I love, I know we are so like, guys, you need to go listen to Anita's podcast as well because I think you're just going to get that, yeah, the down under version of Kinsey, you know, down there. But like,
Anita: from another mister.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: Seriously, I love it. But, but for sure, you know, and I agree. Totally. I will talk about this on your podcast, but I talk about using a human first approach to AI tools where you're bringing your ideas to the tools and allowing it to help you explore.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: And I'm going to talk a little bit more about that in a second, but first, I want to talk about you know, how you can, you know, expand, clarify, organize all that stuff. But it really does like, start with you. And now more than ever, like you are going to be the super power for your brand. And like, actually it might become a little [00:19:00] easier to stand out online with so many people using AI just in a generic way.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: Right. So, so. For the people who are like, okay, Anita, I hear you. I was supposed to show up online. I was like myself, my dorky, weird self, which I do too. That's part of it actually feel good. Social brand story is how I like used to think I needed to be like all the big names online. And then I finally leaned into who I was.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: I'm like,
Anita: Yes.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: this is so much nicer. Right? Yeah. So like for the people who are like, I hear you, but like, firstly. I don't think there's anything really unique about me, or like, how do I find my weirdo ness? And then also, like, who might be a little afraid to show up in that way, because it can be kind of scary and vulnerable to, like, finally, like, lean into showing up as who you are, you know?
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: Like what do you say to those people?
Anita: A few things. I think that I use, and I'm just going to say like, there's times when I'm scared too, like I'm not going to lie. And sometimes I [00:20:00] overthink, I second guess. So it happens to all of us, I feel. I think an analogy I like to use is like, you know, let's just say you're in a car and you're driving to your destination.
Anita: Maybe that destination is you want to create impact. You want to, you know, reach your ideal audience, whatever it is. But what happens is you've got this gremlin that is in the car that is trying to change the GPS in your car being like, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's great. Kinsey that you want to go there and you want to like reach your ideal audience.
Anita: But I think we go this way. We can maybe we go this way. Cause it looks a lot safer, you know, like, I don't know if you want to go that way, I don't know if you should go this way and look, the gremlins there. To protect you and to be nice to you and to make sure you don't get hurt. Right. And this gremlin could be a perfection gremlin.
Anita: It could be an imposter gremlin. It could be a gremlin that is just like, Oh, but what will your, you know, your mother [00:21:00] in law thing, what will your sister in law like, like it could
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: Okay.
Anita: to another way, like another route, or are you going to be like, cool, cool, cool, gremlin no, you're there, no, you're trying to keep me safe, but I'm just gonna put you in the child seat at the back and we're still going to go here, you know, like just even that analogy for me, well, it makes it a little bit more fun, but that's exactly what happens, right?
Anita: Like the gremlins sorry, like they're not going to go away. You're going to be scared. You're going to feel wobbly. You're going to feel different things sometimes when you're speaking about a particular topic. Should I talk about this? Like, is this too controversial? Like, there's gonna be a lot of different things.
Anita: And I think it's important for you to come back to, well like, obviously the message you want to share and what you stand for and all of that. But then you need to [00:22:00] choose, like, are you gonna let the gremlin take the wheel or are you gonna? Are you going to drive? So I think that's one thing that I feel like has helped me a lot.
Anita: Like every time I'm about to speak, every time I'm about to post something that I'm like, do people care? I'll still do that thing and come back to, you know, like what feels good for me. I think that's one. I think the other thing is. At the end of the day, like, we are all communicating and connecting to other humans, and I think there's one thing I admire and I adore so much, and when one of my members tell me that they're scared of putting themselves out there, and I'm like, mention and share that, share the vulnerability in you feeling a bit wobbly, like, I think people will One, you're not trying to be someone like anyone different.
Anita: And I think the fact that you show up, even if it's a story, even if it's a post, it's just like, this feels, this feels scary, but you know, I'm going to do it. I'm going to put myself out there and I'm going to [00:23:00] introduce myself. This is me and this is what you can expect by following my account or by following my newsletter or whatever, but like just simple, Acceptance, but also embrace of the fact that, hey, this feels a little bit scary but I'm sharing it with you because I stand for this and I really want to share more about X. Like I think that in and of itself, not only. Allows for you to feel that exhale, but I think it builds connection with your audience to be like, Oh, wow, that's so relatable. That's awesome. The fact that she's showing up, even though she feels X, Y, Z. So I think the sheer concept of just like sharing with your audience, how uncomfortable and scary it may be for you, I think will actually also help you build that connection with them. yeah, that's probably the second thing I would say to our members, like literally just, Tell them that it feels scary. It probably will give you that of exhale.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: Yes, [00:24:00] yeah, I mean, just like not, not feeling like you have to try to be someone or try to show up in some way is like so nice to like, give yourself permission to, I just am. Here I am. And like, this is me. And like, I promise you'll find your people. And actually, that was one of the realizations I had to when I like made that shift of I don't have to try to be anyone.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: This is me and I'm just showing up guys. And then it attracted the people who actually Like like to work with me versus the people who then made me feel uncomfortable or made me feel like I had to keep like showing up in some way or something, you know? So like, it all kind of made sense for me when I started doing that too.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: Yeah.
Anita: absolutely. Absolutely. There's only, there's only win win for you to just show up full HD as yourself. I think, you know, we often forget that, you know, with the digital online space, like previous to all of that, like that's how. [00:25:00] became connected and we're friends. Like you just literally showed up.
Anita: There was, there was no facade, there was no mask, there was no digital trying to keep up with this digital presence or keeping up with the Joneses. There was never this and social media, although great in a way that where we now have to feel like in order to be important, in order to have a successful business, I need to have a private jet. order to have a successful business, I need to make seven figures, or eight figures. I need to like, you know, like all of that, which is all like, so who says like, you can have successful business without any of that. Like, I mean, if you're to tell me you have to have a seven figure business, but then you have to work 50 hour weeks, I'm like, F no, like, no, thank you.
Anita: That's not success. You know? So important to remember that important to remember.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: Ugh, I love that so much. Oh my gosh. How has it already been like half an hour? I always get to this point [00:26:00] in the conversation. I know I'm like what? But that's okay. We'll come back on. We'll geek out about more word stuff another time as well. But Anita, can you please share with us like all of your awesome, amazing resources?
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: Tell us where like people can connect with you because I know they'll want to do that for sure.
Anita: Oh, thanks Kinsey. Well, come and be friends with me. So me personally find me on Instagram and need to seek a N I T A S I E K. Definitely follow what we do over at word fetish. So that's all things, words and psychology. That's word fetish. So like word and confetti, but without the con. And we have an incredible freebie that I know so many people have loved literally for years that they're like.
Anita: You should technically charge for it, but we don't charge. It's free. It's wordfettigroup. com forward slash freebie. And it is five e lessons. We call it every day. We drop into your inbox with a very simple five to 10 minute copywriting lesson to help [00:27:00] you like increase conversions. And it's all around psychology and words.
Anita: And we talk about website, copy social media, copy blogs, ads just a five minute, five, 10 minutes. read every day. That's all to help you write better, faster and convert more.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: Oh, I love that. I'm going to go snag that after this interview, but thank you so much for coming on here. This is such a fun conversation.
Anita: Thank you so much Kinsey for having me.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: [00:00:00] Hi, Anita. Thank you so much for coming on the feel good social podcast lady. I'm so excited to have you here.
Anita: Hey, you so much. I am feeling good.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: Oh yeah. Guys, we are going to have the bubbly energy in today's conversation. Anita and I were already chatting. Yeah. So it's going to be great. Oh my gosh. I love you so much. Okay. Anyway. Okay. Let's introduce you. So I did already just share a little bit about you in the intro, but I'd love to hear from you.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: Who are you? What do you do? Tell us a little bit about yourself. Silence.
Anita: Hi everyone. My name is Anita. I am the founder of Wordfetti. What we do at Wordfetti is we teach brands that kind of want to zeek one another's egg how they can stand out and make more sales through the power of psychology and words.
Anita: So I'm deeply fascinated by why people buy, why people don't. [00:01:00] So a lot of what we teach and what we're all about is ingrained in psychology. So yeah, now we teach businesses and copywriters and marketers. I guess a lot of the methodology around psychology backs copy empathy based human nised language and copy all of that.
Anita: So I think, you know, words at the end of the day, this is something I'm so passionate about. It's like words are the central medium in which how you and I. Connect, communicate, and share ideas, you know, it's like this free tool we all have, that we all use every single day to connect and communicate.
Anita: And I think it's so important that we're intentional with the language that we use every day but also obviously in our marketing and in how we're selling. So yeah, all things work.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: And my audience knows too that I'm totally a word nerd. I think a lot of us are. So guys, it's going to be getting nerdy up in [00:02:00] here. And I just have to say too, I love your name, Word Fetty as well, because it does, it just brings that like. Enthusiastic personality that I know you bring to the table through the word that like you word Smith, I'm like geeking out and getting meta over here.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: But anyway, I do like to kick off these conversations, but just asking you about like your journey and entrepreneurship, how have you gotten to where you are today? What does that look like for you lady?
Anita: Yay. I wish I could tell you I woke up and was like, oh my gosh, I'm going to be a copywriter. That's exactly what I'm going to do. It was not like that. It was a very nonlinear journey to Doing what I do. So I started Wordfetti eight years ago, and it was actually a side hustle. I started, it was my third side hustle, actually.
Anita: And to be failed in case you're wondering. And I was actually a lawyer. So I worked in corporate I worked in [00:03:00] government and I was a lawyer. A lot of people are surprised when I tell them, they're like, you do not have the personality of a lawyer. And I'm like, I agree. Yes, I agree. So I, yeah, I worked in policy.
Anita: I worked in a number of our, like a number of different departments including domestic and family violence to strategic policy in, in, in government which look, it was very rewarding. And I studied like a good, so I studied law and psychology in university took me six and a half years for two very expensive pieces of paper. No idea where they are. But it was rewarding work, but it just. It was missing the zing factor for me. So that was the biggest reason why I had these creative side hustles. Like I did photography at one stage which is crazy because I remember going to weddings and just taking photos during the weekend after my corporate job I started business with my mom at one stage.
Anita: I actually, I had three other [00:04:00] side hustles, but the other one I'm still kind of doing, I used to food blog and vlog. Quite a lot. Like in the realm of food and travel. Yeah, I had all these creative outlets because I felt like I wasn't tapping into them. So when Fetty came along, that was eight years ago and originally grew as an agency.
Anita: Around four years into the business, I actually paused and considered, well, hang on a second. Like what does success actually mean for me? Because I, Yeah, like I, I don't know, it sounds so obvious, but I don't think I ever paused to consider what success meant for me and I was just growing this agency when that just didn't feel aligned.
Anita: I'm like, why, why am I not like, content? Like why does this feel off? So that's where we, you know, really refined what we did to teaching. And here we are today. Yes.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: Yes, I'll be in in so many little parts of that journey are like just so. Relatable for so many of us from like, you [00:05:00] know, having different passions to kind of splatting spaghetti on the wall to see like, where do I want to follow my creativity to, you know, I went through that as well with like, whenever I first started feel good social and I kind of, you know, everyone was teaching the agency model and like, this is what you want to do to scale and stuff.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: And it took me a while.
Anita: right?
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: Yeah. And I was like no, I don't think so. You know, so like really just giving ourselves permission to find out whatever is going to work for us and also pivot when we need to pivot. I love that so much. But I want to talk to you a little bit about kind of the psychology behind like Crafting your messaging and finding those words that are right for you.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: You know what I mean? Like, what does your process look like when it comes to helping other people do that?
Anita: Yeah. Well, I would first of all say like, when it comes to writing in a way that feels good, I think so often [00:06:00] people jump straight to, Oh, I got to find the right words. I've got to find the right language. Like, what should I say? How should I say it? When really, I think the first step is you've really going to be obsessed with. Two things beforehand. One, the audience that you're serving, you've got to be obsessed with them. That's number one, like so obsessed that you're just like, Oh wow. Like you, you think that way, you're probably going to feel this way. If you look at this word, like, and then you've got to be obsessed with the problem that you're actually solving for this person, this human, because. At the end of the day, we are all in the business of problem solving. Okay. Like all of us or not you like it or not, you're in the business of problem solving yourself. You've got a solution to a problem that someone has. So unless you're really obsessed with the problem you're solving, how this is showing up in your audience's world, why they should be prioritizing it right now and all of that. And really obsessed also with the [00:07:00] audience that you're serving. It's actually going to be very hard for you to articulate the language and the words. To communicate with them, to converse with them, because ultimately that is what writing copy, creating content, writing content is all about, it's really continuing a lot of that conversation that is already in that person's mind, or they're worried about their thinking, but not saying, so, know, first big part of the process is to get geeky and to get it. All up in someone's brain, in someone's mind, in understanding why they think the way they, that they do. And why do they buy certain things and why they don't buy. And one of the things that I love to do and something I hop on with my students and my members is. You know, excavating the language that your audience are using to describe their pain point.
Anita: Like they might not say, I need to find a copywriter. If you're a [00:08:00] copywriter, they might be like, I feel so stuck with the words that I'm using for my business, or I feel stuck with trying to communicate what I'm trying to say. Like, so really think about like the language that they use, or they might be like, I feel like I. we'll write something and then I'll just like backspace. I feel like I'm scattered brains every single time I want to write about my business. I feel stuck when I write about my business. So like really consider that your audience is using and a really simple way. One of my favorite, most practical ways is to, you know, more questions with your audience and really consider how they respond to it. So, for example, if someone and getting curious with the two, I might say, because when someone is like I'm trying to think of an example, but it's like, This is out of my budget. As an example, a lot of the time businesses will look at that and be like, Oh no, I [00:09:00] need to change my price. I need to discount.
Anita: I need to like slash this off to 1 cent. No, like that, that's not the case. Like when someone says this is out of my budget, chances are. You might not have look, you might be outside of their budget. That's 100%. You might just be outside of the budget for some people, but sometimes it could also be the fact that you haven't actually communicated the value. Of your offer. And as a result, they don't prioritize it because they don't see it as a need. They see it as a want you're selling vitamin as opposed to selling the painkiller, you know what I mean? So it's like the little nuances of that. I find so fascinating, but I would say as a practical tip to any of your listeners, like just be obsessed with the conversations your audience are having and be obsessed with the problem that you're solving.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: Yeah, well, you know, it just popped up for me too. It's so funny. It's like the little nuances, like, okay. I literally [00:10:00] was just filling out someone's survey survey, you know, that you people send out start of the year surveys for customers and stuff. And one of the questions was like, what is. Like what would be holding you back from investing in this offer or something?
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: And she had like a few different canned responses. And then of course the other response where you can type in what you want and stuff. And one of the, one of the canned responses was like I can't afford this or like, you know, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, it. It's kind of that, but it's more like, is this investment worth it for me over all of the other priorities that I have?
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: Like, so that's what I typed into the box. I was like, it's not that like, is this worth it for me or is that, can I afford it? It's like, is this a higher priority than everything else that I need to invest in this year? Right.
Anita: And I think we need to be so careful with I'm all for these questionnaires, all for these insight surveys, but the way in which you frame the question, [00:11:00] you could literally be adding bias to it immediately just by how you're framing the question, how you're framing the question. mean, one suggestion I would have is not even do it as a multiple choice.
Anita: Like, why, why do it as a multiple choice? Like, just let your audience tell you. In words, why they're not committing, you know, and I would also say aside from cost. why, why not? Like, because cost is such a subjective thing. Like that should not be, if you stand by your product and you know, this is a value and this price feels good, price should not be the thing you even like test, like it's validated.
Anita: People have paid for it. You know, it's a value. People have told you about it. It should be aside from costs. Like, why didn't you join us? Why,
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: Yeah.
Anita: so subjective.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: Yeah. And often, exactly. That's kind of what I was thinking. It's like, well, she didn't even say how much the price was in the survey or whatever. So I was like, well, I don't really know, but like, it's more, it doesn't even matter the cost. It's like, is it worth it for like [00:12:00] my goals and stuff? But
Anita: it's
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: you know, something.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: Something else that popped up for me recently too is like lately I've been doing a lot of live workshops or like live coworking sessions and stuff. I'll, I'll host live workshops for authentic AI, or I'll do like this, get it done week for one of my courses after the fact, like when the doors, after the doors closed and stuff.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: And that I found has been an awesome way to really communicate with my people, like in that natural way. Yeah. And like paying attention to like the questions they're asking or like the wins that they're seeing and like specifically how they describe what's exciting for them or what's hard for them, you know?
Anita: Yeah. There's nothing better than to actually have like a, just like a live conversation with your audience. Like I, I remember doing. Like even literal, like one on ones in our membership where we just connected and talked and just the natural flow of conversation. Someone will say something and you're [00:13:00] like, Oh, what do you mean by that?
Anita: Can you tell me more about what you mean by this? You know,
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: Yeah.
Anita: dig a bit more. Yeah.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: Yeah. Tell me more is always a great follow up question. I love that. Oh my gosh. Okay. So I know we were chatting a little bit before we hit record and stuff about like kind of Sometimes what is stopping people from adding personality to their brand or showing up for their brand in a way that's like not necessarily generic and stuff like that.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: Like I know with like, you know, the, how crazy AI is getting in the online space, especially, I've heard this from so many people. People are like, Content like sucks lately. And this was one of my big worries with AI too is like, is it going to make the internet faker than it already is? You know, but like,
Anita: I could talk about that. Yeah.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: yeah,
Anita: Totally.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: yeah.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: So like, what are your thoughts on this? I guess. Yeah. Let's talk about it.
Anita: Yeah. I mean literally I think it was yesterday that I saw that there's like a 500 billion [00:14:00] boost in AI in it, yeah, I mean, crazy what feels crazy actually. So with. And we're feeling same, same and feeling like, I don't even know what to say anymore and feeling like you're in the flood of just same sameness. think as a result of that, like, I just want to quickly say, I love AI. I know you love AI too. Like I, I, I think it is, it has streamlined and has the ability to streamline and better like what we already do in like faster, more, more efficiently. Right. However, I think because of the overuse almost of AI and the reliance and over dependence of AI I worry that our content and our marketing and what we say is literally just like same, same. 10, like the words like elevate, [00:15:00] emojis, you know, like, it's all the same. Like I can
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: huh. Huh. Huh. Huh. Huh.
Anita: is really a tool to help you take, like, you've got to take the thinking to then use AI to then create the things that you've got to inject your thinking into it.
Anita: That's the thing that sets you apart. Why are you literally relying on a robot? That's like trawling through the internet to get you all the things. Like, why are you trying to go to an AI bot? To outsource your thinking and tell me all the things that's going to make it unique. It's not going to tell you things that are going to be unique because it's literally trolling through the interwebs to find all the existing things that are out there. So that's, I think that is what I think is a bit dangerous for businesses when they literally rely on AI for all of their ideas. For all of their strategy, for all of like the ways in which they can be different, you know, so and [00:16:00] I've said this previously, but more so even now, like, chat GPT is only as good or AI is only as good as what you put as the input, like the output is only as good as the input, you give it a crappy input, it's going to give you a crappy output I think there's that like the over reliance on AI for insight and perspective.
Anita: And I think this year, like more so this year, as ironic as it sounds, we are using more AI, we are using more of this, but we are, we are also craving more individualism, like the unique nuances of a person, the unique nuances of a brand, like, because of so much of this, like we're craving that. You know, human touch that is so like we can't automate that. It's the most non robotic thing. It is the most manual thing ever. We're craving that. I'm craving that, you know, where you get to have conversations like this, you get [00:17:00] to, you know, sit down and actually talk to someone and not be on your phone. Like, I think we're craving more of the individualism in a person and in a brand.
Anita: And I think. That is a missed opportunity for you as a business. If you're not up as just what feels good to you. And I know that's something we feel so aligned with. You can see you and I like, hello, feel good social. But it's like, you've got to feel. Instead of showing up as this person that you're supposed to show up as and what you see someone else in your industry is doing, like just embrace all of the unique nuances of you.
Anita: Like for me, that was such a massive exhale. Like when I was like, you know what? I'm just going to be that weirdo like online because that is me. You know, you either like it you don't but you know, like the full like HD version of you, please. Which is very hard to like, when you lean on chat, it's not going to be able to spit [00:18:00] that out, you know? So yeah, those are my, my thoughts like over reliance on AI. The dangers of that and also I just think that more than ever, we are embracing individualism and, and the unique nuances of people.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: Yeah.
Anita: that.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: Oh, I love, I know we are so like, guys, you need to go listen to Anita's podcast as well because I think you're just going to get that, yeah, the down under version of Kinsey, you know, down there. But like,
Anita: from another mister.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: Seriously, I love it. But, but for sure, you know, and I agree. Totally. I will talk about this on your podcast, but I talk about using a human first approach to AI tools where you're bringing your ideas to the tools and allowing it to help you explore.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: And I'm going to talk a little bit more about that in a second, but first, I want to talk about you know, how you can, you know, expand, clarify, organize all that stuff. But it really does like, start with you. And now more than ever, like you are going to be the super power for your brand. And like, actually it might become a little [00:19:00] easier to stand out online with so many people using AI just in a generic way.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: Right. So, so. For the people who are like, okay, Anita, I hear you. I was supposed to show up online. I was like myself, my dorky, weird self, which I do too. That's part of it actually feel good. Social brand story is how I like used to think I needed to be like all the big names online. And then I finally leaned into who I was.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: I'm like,
Anita: Yes.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: this is so much nicer. Right? Yeah. So like for the people who are like, I hear you, but like, firstly. I don't think there's anything really unique about me, or like, how do I find my weirdo ness? And then also, like, who might be a little afraid to show up in that way, because it can be kind of scary and vulnerable to, like, finally, like, lean into showing up as who you are, you know?
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: Like what do you say to those people?
Anita: A few things. I think that I use, and I'm just going to say like, there's times when I'm scared too, like I'm not going to lie. And sometimes I [00:20:00] overthink, I second guess. So it happens to all of us, I feel. I think an analogy I like to use is like, you know, let's just say you're in a car and you're driving to your destination.
Anita: Maybe that destination is you want to create impact. You want to, you know, reach your ideal audience, whatever it is. But what happens is you've got this gremlin that is in the car that is trying to change the GPS in your car being like, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's great. Kinsey that you want to go there and you want to like reach your ideal audience.
Anita: But I think we go this way. We can maybe we go this way. Cause it looks a lot safer, you know, like, I don't know if you want to go that way, I don't know if you should go this way and look, the gremlins there. To protect you and to be nice to you and to make sure you don't get hurt. Right. And this gremlin could be a perfection gremlin.
Anita: It could be an imposter gremlin. It could be a gremlin that is just like, Oh, but what will your, you know, your mother [00:21:00] in law thing, what will your sister in law like, like it could
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: Okay.
Anita: to another way, like another route, or are you going to be like, cool, cool, cool, gremlin no, you're there, no, you're trying to keep me safe, but I'm just gonna put you in the child seat at the back and we're still going to go here, you know, like just even that analogy for me, well, it makes it a little bit more fun, but that's exactly what happens, right?
Anita: Like the gremlins sorry, like they're not going to go away. You're going to be scared. You're going to feel wobbly. You're going to feel different things sometimes when you're speaking about a particular topic. Should I talk about this? Like, is this too controversial? Like, there's gonna be a lot of different things.
Anita: And I think it's important for you to come back to, well like, obviously the message you want to share and what you stand for and all of that. But then you need to [00:22:00] choose, like, are you gonna let the gremlin take the wheel or are you gonna? Are you going to drive? So I think that's one thing that I feel like has helped me a lot.
Anita: Like every time I'm about to speak, every time I'm about to post something that I'm like, do people care? I'll still do that thing and come back to, you know, like what feels good for me. I think that's one. I think the other thing is. At the end of the day, like, we are all communicating and connecting to other humans, and I think there's one thing I admire and I adore so much, and when one of my members tell me that they're scared of putting themselves out there, and I'm like, mention and share that, share the vulnerability in you feeling a bit wobbly, like, I think people will One, you're not trying to be someone like anyone different.
Anita: And I think the fact that you show up, even if it's a story, even if it's a post, it's just like, this feels, this feels scary, but you know, I'm going to do it. I'm going to put myself out there and I'm going to [00:23:00] introduce myself. This is me and this is what you can expect by following my account or by following my newsletter or whatever, but like just simple, Acceptance, but also embrace of the fact that, hey, this feels a little bit scary but I'm sharing it with you because I stand for this and I really want to share more about X. Like I think that in and of itself, not only. Allows for you to feel that exhale, but I think it builds connection with your audience to be like, Oh, wow, that's so relatable. That's awesome. The fact that she's showing up, even though she feels X, Y, Z. So I think the sheer concept of just like sharing with your audience, how uncomfortable and scary it may be for you, I think will actually also help you build that connection with them. yeah, that's probably the second thing I would say to our members, like literally just, Tell them that it feels scary. It probably will give you that of exhale.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: Yes, [00:24:00] yeah, I mean, just like not, not feeling like you have to try to be someone or try to show up in some way is like so nice to like, give yourself permission to, I just am. Here I am. And like, this is me. And like, I promise you'll find your people. And actually, that was one of the realizations I had to when I like made that shift of I don't have to try to be anyone.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: This is me and I'm just showing up guys. And then it attracted the people who actually Like like to work with me versus the people who then made me feel uncomfortable or made me feel like I had to keep like showing up in some way or something, you know? So like, it all kind of made sense for me when I started doing that too.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: Yeah.
Anita: absolutely. Absolutely. There's only, there's only win win for you to just show up full HD as yourself. I think, you know, we often forget that, you know, with the digital online space, like previous to all of that, like that's how. [00:25:00] became connected and we're friends. Like you just literally showed up.
Anita: There was, there was no facade, there was no mask, there was no digital trying to keep up with this digital presence or keeping up with the Joneses. There was never this and social media, although great in a way that where we now have to feel like in order to be important, in order to have a successful business, I need to have a private jet. order to have a successful business, I need to make seven figures, or eight figures. I need to like, you know, like all of that, which is all like, so who says like, you can have successful business without any of that. Like, I mean, if you're to tell me you have to have a seven figure business, but then you have to work 50 hour weeks, I'm like, F no, like, no, thank you.
Anita: That's not success. You know? So important to remember that important to remember.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: Ugh, I love that so much. Oh my gosh. How has it already been like half an hour? I always get to this point [00:26:00] in the conversation. I know I'm like what? But that's okay. We'll come back on. We'll geek out about more word stuff another time as well. But Anita, can you please share with us like all of your awesome, amazing resources?
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: Tell us where like people can connect with you because I know they'll want to do that for sure.
Anita: Oh, thanks Kinsey. Well, come and be friends with me. So me personally find me on Instagram and need to seek a N I T A S I E K. Definitely follow what we do over at word fetish. So that's all things, words and psychology. That's word fetish. So like word and confetti, but without the con. And we have an incredible freebie that I know so many people have loved literally for years that they're like.
Anita: You should technically charge for it, but we don't charge. It's free. It's wordfettigroup. com forward slash freebie. And it is five e lessons. We call it every day. We drop into your inbox with a very simple five to 10 minute copywriting lesson to help [00:27:00] you like increase conversions. And it's all around psychology and words.
Anita: And we talk about website, copy social media, copy blogs, ads just a five minute, five, 10 minutes. read every day. That's all to help you write better, faster and convert more.
Kinsey from Feel Good Social: Oh, I love that. I'm going to go snag that after this interview, but thank you so much for coming on here. This is such a fun conversation.
Anita: Thank you so much Kinsey for having me.
