High Notes & High Drama

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Hi, Helena. Hi, Adam. And hello to all of our listeners. Welcome to High Notes and Anecdotes.
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It's been fantastic to have you here. I'm guessing you've listened to the last
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couple of episodes and you're back for more, which is fantastic.
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We like to kick off each episode with a little introduction about ourselves,
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and then we chat about what the episode is going to be about.
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So, Helena, why don't you kick us off? Tell us about yourself.
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My name is Helena Dix. I am an opera singer, which I've been doing for quite some time now.
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I get to travel all over the world, meet some pretty cool people and hang out on some awesome stages.
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I'm a mentor and a teacher, a lover of high notes, and I love to laugh.
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And I am Adam Miller. I'm a former opera singer turned producer, writer and director.
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I've had the great pleasure of working with you over the years.
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We've studied together at the Royal Academy of Music and worked together as
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singers and also as producer and singer.
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So Adam, I'm pretty excited about today's episode. Can you tell us what we're going to talk about?
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Today is a great episode. You'll probably remember the last episode.
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You told us all about how you prepare for a role musically.
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This episode, we explore how you prepare for a role dramatically.
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You also detail the challenges of being a nun and a strumpet in the same week.
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If that sounds interesting to anyone in our audience, then listen on.
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Music.
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And here we are again. Oh my gosh. We just, we keep doing this,
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but it's a fun chat and I'm learning lots.
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I'm learning lots about how I really should have prepared during my opera career, to be honest.
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I should have been taking notes. I want to get those notes from our last conversation,
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which was about your breath mapping, which was so interesting.
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But it led us on in this conversation today about the dramatic work that you
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do, putting these roles together.
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And again, I come back to, just because I've recently seen it here in Melbourne,
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the performance that you gave of Musetta.
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And then the next night, or even the next matinee, I think you did,
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a Suar Angelica, same company, dramatically different roles.
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How do you do that? How do you dramatically prepare these roles?
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It's a tricky question because, of course, you can only dramatically prepare
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so much without a director and without knowing in which way the production is going to go.
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Which, even in its own right, is a bit of a shift, isn't it,
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from the days when you and I were first coming up through opera together.
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Because so often you were doing revival productions where someone else had done
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it, and so you'd kind of come in knowing roughly what the production was already,
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and you were giving someone else's performance.
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And then you hear the stories of all these famous people who would step in,
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and they would give their performance.
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And so Pavarotti would step in, and he would give his performance of whatever
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role that was. And the rest of the show just had to dance around him. Right.
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I think that's a very big shift that we have these days. We still have revival
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performances, but you're always able to put your own spin on it.
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That's true. And I think that that also comes from nowadays,
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if you're doing a revival performance, you do get time with a director or a
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revival director to recreate that.
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My first gig at the Met was Airnani and it was a revival production.
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And I'll never forget the first day on the floor. There's little me like,
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you know, covering Elvira.
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I was covering Angela and we had Domingo in there.
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Domingo usually sang the tenor role, but Francesco Merli was the tenor now,
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and Domingo was going down to the baritone role for the first time.
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For the same production that he had sung the tenor role. He had sung the tenor role.
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So he's done the production already,
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but as the tenor, and the exact same production, and now he's a baritone.
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And then you've got Dmitry Belaskowski, who's this big strappy,
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looks a bit like a security guard, a good bouncer down by Chapel Street or something.
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I just know our listeners right now are Googling. What's his name again?
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Dmitry Beloskovsky. There you go. You don't spell it, but yeah. I won't because I can't.
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But he's this bass and I'd never heard him before, okay?
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So we're in the middle of the rehearsals and the whole time the comedy is that
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Domingo keeps doing the tenor's lines and like, you know, so they're like, you know, Placido.
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He's like, I know, I know, you know, like the whole thing. So this kind of really
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interesting thing because all of them had seen the production previously, they'd all watched it.
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And some of them came with the attitude of I am just going to do what has been
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done because that's what the director wanted without any discussions.
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And for me that's not great. And what I loved about watching certain artists
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in the room is that they had their own ideas but then it would collectively
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come together with the revival director.
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And of course then the question goes as well how much
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license does the revival director have and and this is
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a really interesting point because some directors who
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own their productions insist upon everything but
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not that they can legally and then some
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of them want to see it some of them want to have control over it and then others just
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go oh whatever that production's been sold on to that company they
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can do what they want with it and so there's a really fine line
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as an artist I think in in that kind of dramatic preparation so I'm sitting
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there and this is my point I was sitting there on day one and Belaskowski comes
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in and we're up to his scene now and he's not he's not sat around and watched
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anything and the director says to him oh Dimitri do you want me to you know
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you want me to explain what's going on no,
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I watch DVD. And so everyone in the room kind of laughed and it was great.
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So he comes out and he just, I mean, the whole room shook when this man sang.
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I've never heard anything like it in person before.
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He has the most commanding presence, both in the sense of not dramatically,
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but you don't even need to do anything with that voice and that body.
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That voice and that body sing.
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And if it's the right role, you're like, you're terrified.
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And that's correct for what he was doing. so he's
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he does his aria and the whole room is like so placido
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domingo completely forgets to do any acting because
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he's so like like just watching this
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guy like going what the hell you know like we were all
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jaws to the floor and he gets to the end of
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the aria and he'd watch the dvd so you see him very kind
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of he would go and then he would go i
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am going right now because that's what the dvd said and i'm going left
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it's not my way of working but that was his his way
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of working so anyway he finishes and we
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all clap like everyone in the room claps and Domingo was like
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oh this is amazing and um we go to carry on and uh Domingo's totally like lost
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his like just doesn't know any of what he's singing because he's so enamored
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by what what he's doing and and they and they go can you do it again and and
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he's like yes uh I watch DVD I know you know and as this
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whole kind of so it's really interesting and then someone said
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that he did it again full voice again and and Domingo
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turns around to him he's like hey Dimitri maybe you
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could uh not mark this time you know like this
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whole kind of but it didn't matter what he did because actually like he was
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just so embodied in this whole thing now having said that I you know that's
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that's not my way of of kind of going about things and I would love to hear
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you walk into it into a room and say Helena this role is gonna be no no I've
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watched the digital they're like but there isn't one yeah Exactly.
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Oh, I made one. It was Real Housewives of LA. Yeah, I made it.
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I did every character and I recorded it and you need to watch that.
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You need puppets. Exactly.
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So there's that kind of thing, as you said, yeah, with like revivals and things.
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And then there's, of course, like new creations.
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So preparing stuff dramatically is... Well, talk to me about Musetta because
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I'm really interested in this because I know you and I had some early conversations.
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Because you did that deep dive into Musetta. You went to the source material
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and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. Do you want to start from there?
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Yeah. I mean, Musetta's... I don't usually do roles that are so...
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When I say commonly done, you know what I mean? Like Boheme's done everywhere and everyone knows it.
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And I don't think I've done a role that's as commonly known as Musetta is.
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So, I always like to make the Helena Dick stamp on anything I do.
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And I think that's important as an artist to really find your own way with it.
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I watched a billion different performances, ones I loved, ones I hated,
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ones that I threw stuff at the screen of, ones that I was enamored by.
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Is that your puppet version of it? Exactly.
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And, yeah, so I read the source material. I read the book and learnt about that
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portrayal of Musetta and then found it interesting to look at how Puccini wanted
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her and the things that were in the opera and things that weren't about her backstory per se.
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And I think that I definitely had ideas of the strengths that I found in her personally.
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So, but I can't make those judgments completely, obviously, because if you don't
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know this already, listeners, when you come into an opera production,
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you don't see the design or the ideas of the director until you get there on day one.
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Which is actually, we should chat about this in another episode. It's the most fun day.
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Day one's amazing because they show you a little model. It's amazing. Anyway.
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Yeah, absolutely. So you can only prepare so much.
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You can prepare by doing research on the source material, like stuff that's out there.
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Same as when I do an opera that's, say, based on a Greek mythological character.
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I will do all that research to see where that came from, other portrayals, that kind of thing.
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So you can only really do that kind of basic research and have a journey in
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your mind of how you want to play her.
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So I guess my dramatic thing is what's the reality of what she's based on?
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Because Puccini used to say in his operas, he would never write the music until he saw the characters.
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So Verismo means, is like the type of opera that was around when Puccini was
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writing. And it's realism.
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So that's what Verismo is. So, and he, and he, and I read a thing that's talked
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about, he was talking about Bohem, but he said it in all these operas.
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That he didn't create the music and then the character grew out of that.
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He always had a really distinct visualization of what the characters were,
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meaning they were real to him.
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Yeah. And I find that really interesting.
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So you see so many different portrayals, say, of Musetta, right?
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And some are very surface and some are quite deep. And how do you get that across
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in the stage time that she's got? Because you don't have a lot of time. Yeah.
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So I guess the answer to that is having a look at the source material,
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also finding through the music, finding my strengths of what I can give her
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that maybe someone else might not do.
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Yeah. Which I think everyone who saw this particular production would agree,
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it was quite a unique Musetta that sat so specifically in your voice.
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And it was glorious. It was absolutely and utterly a revelation to hear Musetta done that way. And-
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Perhaps in a lot of ways you've ruined Rosetta for me
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and a few other people because like oh it wasn't quite the way that Helena did it
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which I loved which I've got to say was a Rosina for
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me I saw or I was in a production again oh my god
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Barbara Seville um at Scottish Opera and Karen
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Cargill who is a you know fantastic Wagnerian
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singer um sang Rosina wow
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and and it and there was a lot of talk beforehand people
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saying oh wow okay that coloratura from
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a from a Wagnerian do is that going to work and when
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you hear it it ruined me for all other Rosinas like I've never heard another
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Rosina that I've loved to hear more because she drove you could hear and exactly
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as you're saying that idea that what she brought to it specifically was that
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steel in the voice and the ability to drive through the role which gave her
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character so much more resolve and so much so So,
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Rosina drove that show so much more than so many other Barbara Savilles that
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I've seen because those other Rosinas are often quite light and sort of flippant
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with their character where she went, nah,
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I own this. And so, she controlled everyone there.
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And it was absolutely glorious. But also, that's so clever because if she had
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tried to do it any other way, you'd be uncomfortable watching and listening to it.
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100%. And I think as an artist, when you accept roles like that,
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that are slightly out of your ballpark, but you have a production team or a
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director or a conductor with an open mind going, well, actually,
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and that's what Melbourne, that's what happened.
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Raymond Lawrence, head of music at Melbourne Opera rang me and I laughed when
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he first asked me to sing Rosetta.
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I was like, are you, come on, this is ridiculous. And I rang you and I said,
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you know, and you said, hang on a minute. And I was like, okay.
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Okay. Let's be honest though. Like I, I did a concert version of,
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I produced a concert version of Bohem in the UK that I asked you to sing Rosetta
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and you came and sang Rosetta for us. And it, again, was glorious. Absolutely fantastic.
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So I knew you were a Rosetta all along. That was a very long time ago.
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A long time ago. And I guess when we did it in concert that time,
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I didn't really have who I was as an artist at that time. I would just like
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sing and do my best. We threw that together.
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I think we put that together in two days. Yeah, a couple of days. Yeah, exactly.
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Yeah. So I think, you know, coming at roles now. And it's really interesting
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because when I did Contessa in Figaro over in Seattle,
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one of the reviews for me actually said what we loved about this Countess was
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the individual stamp that Helena put on it.
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And there was a couple of things that they talked about, both in the sense of
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the way I approached it dramatically.
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And the director that we had already had a very strong idea and we were double
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cast. And what was really interesting was it was the same show.
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But especially the two countesses, we were very different singers.
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And what I loved about the director was that he embraced that.
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And he embraced the way dramatically that the couples fed off each other.
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Okay. Both vocally and dramatically and physically.
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And so we had two shows that same set, same concept, same idea,
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but they were actually quite different in the energy that they had.
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And he allowed that to happen because he knew that that would bring out the
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best in the artist to do that.
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And so yeah so for for that you know
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you do the preparation and then you arrive on day one with
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knowing what's going to bring out your best combining
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that with the director's ideas of the way that they want the production to be
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and then during your rehearsal period really meeting if you have a really great
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director you meet halfway but with each other and you say what about this and
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he says no or you know you could yeah you kind of bounce and that's that's how Well,
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for Bohem especially, with Gary,
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I had an absolutely phenomenal time with him.
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And we really – he had strong ideas, but also he'd worked with me before.
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So that was a benefit for me dramatically because he knew what I could do dramatically too.
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So in a lot of ways, we came together
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going, yeah, we kind of know the direction that we want to take her.
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Yeah. So without naming names then, have you worked with directors who would
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give no ground? You've come with ideas.
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You've come with what you bring to the stage. Again, naming no names.
00:15:17.393 --> 00:15:21.053
Have you had that experience? I have. Yep. Yeah. What's that like?
00:15:21.133 --> 00:15:21.833
How do you deal with that?
00:15:23.893 --> 00:15:30.053
It's hard. It's tough because sometimes the ideas that the director will have
00:15:30.053 --> 00:15:37.253
go against what makes you necessarily shine.
00:15:37.493 --> 00:15:40.773
Yep. So it would be like things that might make you look a bit strange physically
00:15:40.773 --> 00:15:44.693
or things that might cause your singing to be a bit, you know,
00:15:45.033 --> 00:15:50.053
have a bit of a problem because of something that they do or in bel canto especially,
00:15:50.053 --> 00:15:54.813
that's even harder because when I'm preparing embellishments and ornaments,
00:15:55.073 --> 00:15:59.193
which I'm creating because bel canto is all about, the bel canto style of singing
00:15:59.193 --> 00:16:04.553
is all about creating ornaments and things that highlight the emotional or highlight the dramatic.
00:16:04.553 --> 00:16:09.893
And so when you're preparing those, you got it, you can do them within means,
00:16:10.073 --> 00:16:13.413
but then you've also got to be, you know, open to what's going to be on the
00:16:13.413 --> 00:16:14.653
floor and dramatically what happens.
00:16:14.853 --> 00:16:20.693
I have been several times around directors that are very set on their ideas.
00:16:20.973 --> 00:16:25.093
And I think that's a shame. I don't, I still think.
00:16:26.075 --> 00:16:29.395
I'm willing to do anything. Sometimes you've got to do it. Yeah,
00:16:29.395 --> 00:16:30.435
I'm willing to do anything.
00:16:30.915 --> 00:16:35.415
Sometimes, I'm not going to lie, I'll do it and I'll purposely not do it well.
00:16:37.475 --> 00:16:40.955
I'm not going to lie. I have been known to do it. You can't say that on the
00:16:40.955 --> 00:16:44.955
podcast. I can say it. And if they listen, then next time it happens,
00:16:45.155 --> 00:16:47.515
they'll be like, oh, she's doing her thing because I've done my research.
00:16:47.515 --> 00:16:51.435
I don't make it obvious, but I have been known and I'll be like, okay, sure.
00:16:51.815 --> 00:16:54.175
And then I'll do it, but I'll make it really bad.
00:16:54.895 --> 00:16:59.395
I'll never forget one time a director said to me. With no names. No names.
00:16:59.575 --> 00:17:04.255
A director said to me in a show that had a little bit of a comic bit in it.
00:17:04.295 --> 00:17:06.375
It wasn't a comedy show, but it was a bit of a funny scene.
00:17:06.775 --> 00:17:10.835
And they said to me, you're not very amusing.
00:17:11.135 --> 00:17:15.775
And I was purposely trying not to be too flamboyantly funny, which is my go-to.
00:17:16.215 --> 00:17:22.075
And they said, could you try and be bigger? and everyone who knew me who knows
00:17:22.075 --> 00:17:24.575
that I'm outrageous just went, oh, no.
00:17:25.115 --> 00:17:30.855
And I said, yes, absolutely. And then I just like pantomime handed up like to
00:17:30.855 --> 00:17:34.915
the point of hilariousness, at which point the director very quietly came across
00:17:34.915 --> 00:17:37.475
to me literally straight after we'd done the scene and went,
00:17:38.055 --> 00:17:39.795
let's put that back, shall we?
00:17:41.175 --> 00:17:44.215
And I was like, really? You say, yeah, really? Put that back?
00:17:44.375 --> 00:17:47.895
So, yeah, look, of course you have to be collegial and, you know,
00:17:47.895 --> 00:17:52.735
So, there have been times also when directors say, no, you're wrong, this, this and that.
00:17:52.875 --> 00:17:55.435
And I have to trust them because at the end of the day, it's their creation
00:17:55.435 --> 00:17:59.635
and they're watching it. And they often have that more holistic vision as well. So-
00:18:00.284 --> 00:18:02.964
Because I know I've come across this in the past as well, that you might walk
00:18:02.964 --> 00:18:06.244
in with an idea about your role, but the stakes have to be the same.
00:18:06.404 --> 00:18:10.204
And you often find directors will talk about that and say, you're playing it
00:18:10.204 --> 00:18:13.844
with these stakes and that character is playing it with these stakes.
00:18:13.964 --> 00:18:16.784
You've got to be in the same world or it jars with the audience.
00:18:17.024 --> 00:18:20.064
So, yeah, I get it. Sometimes it's really, really tough.
00:18:20.104 --> 00:18:25.044
I'm not egotistical enough to know when I'm wrong or to try things and to go,
00:18:25.184 --> 00:18:26.124
hey, you're right. Absolutely.
00:18:26.664 --> 00:18:30.584
100%. you know, and I'm always looking to improve and always looking to develop.
00:18:30.584 --> 00:18:34.004
And I love a challenge. Like that's part of who I am as a person. And you're right.
00:18:34.184 --> 00:18:37.364
You know, the other thing of course is, you know, when you put opera singers
00:18:37.364 --> 00:18:42.924
together, nine times out of 10 vocally, we're, we're on similar levels.
00:18:43.084 --> 00:18:46.944
Okay. So you've got people, everyone's a good singer to a point of, you know,
00:18:47.084 --> 00:18:51.304
what you'd expect, but dramatically I find it really variable because people
00:18:51.304 --> 00:18:54.804
have had really variable backgrounds on their drama training,
00:18:54.944 --> 00:18:58.284
which is not a huge part necessarily of music training for singers.
00:18:58.504 --> 00:19:01.304
Yeah. So, we both went to the Royal Academy, for example, the Royal Academy
00:19:01.304 --> 00:19:04.744
in London, where they really put a strong focus on dramatic work.
00:19:04.944 --> 00:19:09.304
So, working with the fantastic Johnny Ramster, who really took us through that.
00:19:09.404 --> 00:19:12.924
And we worked with movement coaches who came at movement from a point of drama.
00:19:13.164 --> 00:19:19.744
But you're absolutely right. My training as a complete performer didn't begin
00:19:19.744 --> 00:19:21.324
until I went to the Royal Academy in London.
00:19:21.324 --> 00:19:24.324
It wasn't until I went to a proper school that said,
00:19:24.484 --> 00:19:29.184
actually, you've got to get into the guts of the reality that's exactly right
00:19:29.184 --> 00:19:32.544
absolutely oh you're you're you're absolutely right and you talk about john
00:19:32.544 --> 00:19:37.384
ramster i mean he pushed me god my first months at the at the royal academy
00:19:37.384 --> 00:19:43.204
in drama class and he said to me i was playing something and he said what are you doing.
00:19:44.017 --> 00:19:46.497
He's like, what you're doing is just, you're just acting it.
00:19:46.617 --> 00:19:50.357
You're not feeling, you're not really being, you're not embodying it. You're just doing it.
00:19:50.577 --> 00:19:53.617
And what you're doing is you're putting up a wall and you're scared to let it
00:19:53.617 --> 00:19:57.597
get to your actual core. And this was like hardcore, this is a Traviata scene. Oh, geez.
00:19:57.877 --> 00:20:01.977
And he said to me, why are you so scared? Like, are you that insecure?
00:20:02.097 --> 00:20:05.477
Like he really pushed me. Wow. Not in a horrible way. No, no. In a really fantastic.
00:20:05.877 --> 00:20:07.957
And I was like, but I'm acting. He's like, but that's not what you,
00:20:07.957 --> 00:20:09.257
yeah, you're acting, but it's false.
00:20:09.937 --> 00:20:14.557
An audience has to see, the end result of what an audience has to see is something you've truly felt.
00:20:14.777 --> 00:20:19.177
So then in the rehearsal process, you need to have pushed yourself past that
00:20:19.177 --> 00:20:22.997
wall that you're putting up at the moment where I am acting sad or I am acting
00:20:22.997 --> 00:20:24.557
to it. He's like, that's not good enough.
00:20:24.757 --> 00:20:28.537
And yeah, that craft of really fine shit, but that's scary.
00:20:28.817 --> 00:20:33.317
And as singers, we're already vulnerable enough to then be pushed to that level.
00:20:33.437 --> 00:20:37.777
And I'll never forget when he did it with me because I was so upset at the time
00:20:37.777 --> 00:20:41.777
because I was such a perfectionist and I thought, oh, well, I couldn't get what
00:20:41.777 --> 00:20:47.397
he wanted me to do. And he said, you will get it, but you have to let go in the rehearsal.
00:20:47.717 --> 00:20:53.137
And then when you come to the performance of it, then you act it,
00:20:53.217 --> 00:20:55.377
but you act it with the reality of what you felt.
00:20:55.897 --> 00:20:59.777
And I was like, no, surely you can't feel all those things. He said, no, no, no.
00:20:59.877 --> 00:21:05.097
You can get yourself, if you really embody it, to really genuinely feel the
00:21:05.097 --> 00:21:07.157
reality of what you're engaging with.
00:21:07.497 --> 00:21:12.217
And we had a rehearsal where I pushed it so far that I ended up sobbing my entire
00:21:12.217 --> 00:21:17.797
way through the scene me he was sobbing the pianist was sobbing and I was literally
00:21:17.797 --> 00:21:22.917
like you had to scoop me up off the floor I was so upset by the end and he looked at me and he went.
00:21:24.563 --> 00:21:30.383
And now you can act it. And I was just like, you know, and I'd only been away
00:21:30.383 --> 00:21:32.843
from home for a couple of months. And he's like, I want you to tap into that.
00:21:33.023 --> 00:21:36.843
How do you feel being all the other way from your family?
00:21:37.163 --> 00:21:42.423
And I was such a stronghold of happiness and virtue.
00:21:42.563 --> 00:21:46.403
But underneath it all, of course, I was devastated to be so far from home and
00:21:46.403 --> 00:21:49.843
feeling vulnerable and all that. But he really got me to tap into all of that.
00:21:50.903 --> 00:21:54.243
And he taught me a lot of lessons exactly what
00:21:54.243 --> 00:21:57.603
you're saying about that kind of realism behind what you
00:21:57.603 --> 00:22:01.283
do and that was a huge learning curve for me and it
00:22:01.283 --> 00:22:03.943
broke me but but then when I put myself back together I was
00:22:03.943 --> 00:22:06.723
like oh wow and you don't necessarily have to do that in
00:22:06.723 --> 00:22:09.943
the room with everybody you can absolutely find that for yourself yeah
00:22:09.943 --> 00:22:12.543
and to be honest and I you know I don't want to
00:22:12.543 --> 00:22:15.583
overly admit this because you know I'm such a badass and and tough
00:22:15.583 --> 00:22:18.703
but when I was preparing dramatically for bohème
00:22:18.703 --> 00:22:21.943
and me obviously spoiler alert mimi
00:22:21.943 --> 00:22:25.523
dies uh and that kind of the realness
00:22:25.523 --> 00:22:28.783
of musetta in in in that final act yeah uh
00:22:28.783 --> 00:22:31.583
and when she says it's the simplest of lines but when
00:22:31.583 --> 00:22:34.383
she says i found mimi and she she told
00:22:34.383 --> 00:22:37.103
me i she wanted me to bring her here to rodolfo and that
00:22:37.103 --> 00:22:39.743
she was and she's dying and she tells the boys there's a
00:22:39.743 --> 00:22:42.683
simple little line that she says she said would you
00:22:42.683 --> 00:22:45.843
bring me musetta would you bring me there and
00:22:45.843 --> 00:22:50.243
and that the simplicity of that line every time at home i rehearsed it i'd be
00:22:50.243 --> 00:22:58.203
like like crying and but but i really felt it it's like because musetta doesn't
00:22:58.203 --> 00:23:02.443
put herself up on the same pedestal as how you know how she thinks me anyway
00:23:02.443 --> 00:23:05.643
that's just beside the point but but but the point is.
00:23:06.136 --> 00:23:10.936
That reality of drama that you can add to it and really feeling it and understanding
00:23:10.936 --> 00:23:12.176
it for you, for yourself,
00:23:12.416 --> 00:23:16.956
and then being able to put that into the performance, but without it then affecting
00:23:16.956 --> 00:23:20.056
you, obviously, vocally or so much that you can't sing because,
00:23:20.156 --> 00:23:22.916
of course, that's half the battle. And that is half the battle.
00:23:23.076 --> 00:23:28.136
And you often, I remember working with so many directors who would criticize
00:23:28.136 --> 00:23:32.256
performers by saying it's self-indulgent to bring that emotion to the stage.
00:23:32.416 --> 00:23:37.496
And the job is to have that emotion, compartmentalize it to inform your role,
00:23:37.616 --> 00:23:41.536
but you're not allowed to have that cathartic experience every night because
00:23:41.536 --> 00:23:45.096
that's for the audience to do. You're there to channel those things for them.
00:23:45.276 --> 00:23:48.456
I don't know where I sit in that argument because it's a really difficult place
00:23:48.456 --> 00:23:52.956
that I believe you can do both, but you can't be self-indulgent.
00:23:53.176 --> 00:23:57.296
But at the same time, as you've just so eloquently put, you've still got to
00:23:57.296 --> 00:24:01.156
bring it to the stage. You've still got to be there and you have to be living it honestly.
00:24:01.596 --> 00:24:04.696
Otherwise, the audience is robbed of that experience. It's really,
00:24:04.776 --> 00:24:05.756
really tough. Absolutely.
00:24:06.356 --> 00:24:09.416
So is that the link then that you found between, because we talked a lot about
00:24:09.416 --> 00:24:11.036
Mouseta, into Soare Angelica?
00:24:11.536 --> 00:24:14.096
Because it is something that I love that you did with the role that but I really
00:24:14.096 --> 00:24:16.896
appreciate it because I've performed in a lot of bohems, I've produced a lot
00:24:16.896 --> 00:24:18.296
of bohems, and I've directed a few.
00:24:19.116 --> 00:24:23.416
And I love a musetta who brings some of that gravitas.
00:24:23.676 --> 00:24:28.336
She is a survivor. She is the person who is usually the smartest person in the room.
00:24:28.756 --> 00:24:32.016
And I love that you brought that to that character. It was beautiful.
00:24:32.256 --> 00:24:37.956
Did you take that as well into Suar Angelica? Did you find that there were synergies
00:24:37.956 --> 00:24:39.396
between those two roles?
00:24:39.636 --> 00:24:42.596
Or did you treat them totally separately? I definitely...
00:24:43.117 --> 00:24:46.637
Treated them completely separately except for
00:24:46.637 --> 00:24:49.297
one thing and i haven't said this to you but it was something that you said to
00:24:49.297 --> 00:24:52.037
me because when you and i were talking about bohem you
00:24:52.037 --> 00:24:55.137
said to me that in order
00:24:55.137 --> 00:25:00.997
to for a bohem in your eyes to be successful you said that the audience has
00:25:00.997 --> 00:25:07.017
to have hope first and to go on that journey of of hope then and then the tragedy
00:25:07.017 --> 00:25:11.557
and then they feel the tragedy more if they've had the hope for longer and that
00:25:11.557 --> 00:25:13.337
the tragedy doesn't enter too soon.
00:25:13.477 --> 00:25:17.857
That was something that you and I spoke about just in general, about Bohem.
00:25:19.217 --> 00:25:23.797
That was the only thing that I held on to because Angelica is devastating. Yeah.
00:25:24.157 --> 00:25:31.457
And so that dramatic point I tried to take on both shows. Yeah.
00:25:33.097 --> 00:25:36.297
Because at the end of the day, obviously complete
00:25:36.297 --> 00:25:44.357
polar opposite um of characters so angelica is is is so humble and and so and
00:25:44.357 --> 00:25:48.017
she's you know when we see her at the start of the opera she's been there a
00:25:48.017 --> 00:25:51.777
while and you have to understand the backstory of of of the fact that she's
00:25:51.777 --> 00:25:53.537
been sent to this convent and everything.
00:25:54.797 --> 00:25:58.157
Dramatically angelica is so moving um and
00:25:58.157 --> 00:26:02.777
so heartbreaking and the last i don't know you know 15 minutes of the opera
00:26:02.777 --> 00:26:07.217
or so it just builds and builds and builds and builds and builds and i think
00:26:07.217 --> 00:26:11.377
it's really hard dramatically not to peak too soon yeah in the sense of the
00:26:11.377 --> 00:26:14.377
the tragedy of it so when she finds out that her son's dead through you know
00:26:14.377 --> 00:26:15.497
obviously through the end.
00:26:16.217 --> 00:26:20.257
Again spoiler alerts what are you doing um and
00:26:20.257 --> 00:26:22.877
i did a lot of crying and i you know and i did a lot
00:26:22.877 --> 00:26:25.597
of kind of self-discovery within within the work but
00:26:25.597 --> 00:26:28.437
also i thought about what you'd said to me
00:26:28.437 --> 00:26:32.117
and in some ways angelica dramatically
00:26:32.117 --> 00:26:35.077
works in the opposite way so you kind
00:26:35.077 --> 00:26:37.777
of meet them and you blah blah blah and and she has
00:26:37.777 --> 00:26:41.277
that horrible confrontation with her aunt and then she finds out that her son's
00:26:41.277 --> 00:26:44.617
actually dead and that's the only thing that's kept her living you know kept
00:26:44.617 --> 00:26:49.417
her wanting to live yeah she's lived for her son and then the the way the puccini's
00:26:49.417 --> 00:26:56.957
written the end And it's almost like she accepts it and then she's joyful that she'll,
00:26:57.277 --> 00:26:59.877
in the fact that she poisons herself to go and join him again,
00:26:59.877 --> 00:27:03.097
it's almost like she has that joy and that hope at the end.
00:27:03.737 --> 00:27:08.197
That's why it's so heartbreaking to see the delight that she has in letting
00:27:08.197 --> 00:27:10.477
go and in ending her life.
00:27:10.617 --> 00:27:14.777
So I kind of flipped it on its head. So with Mosetta, it was like,
00:27:14.837 --> 00:27:18.037
keep the hope, keep the hope, keep the hope, even telling the boys towards the end, she's okay.
00:27:18.197 --> 00:27:23.197
Yeah. Yeah, that's it. And it's that kind of like I'm being the positive beacon of energy.
00:27:23.417 --> 00:27:27.137
Yeah. And in a way it was just like the polar opposite with Angelica because
00:27:27.137 --> 00:27:31.117
at the beginning I tried to have her as very detached and –.
00:27:32.036 --> 00:27:35.516
Not present because she was always thinking about it, always thinking about it.
00:27:35.616 --> 00:27:40.096
And then to have the self-discovery of what's happened and then the way it's
00:27:40.096 --> 00:27:46.216
musically written to have that, that, that heartfelt like hope,
00:27:46.356 --> 00:27:48.936
but hope that's filled with so much despair.
00:27:49.216 --> 00:27:52.716
Yeah. For me, it was the thing that drove the ending for me.
00:27:52.776 --> 00:27:56.056
You feel very empty when you finish Angelica.
00:27:56.156 --> 00:28:00.536
You feel very like you've just got nothing left.
00:28:00.536 --> 00:28:03.356
Like it's just it's like it's all gone it's not particularly long
00:28:03.356 --> 00:28:06.416
but you just you know dramatically and actually I think
00:28:06.416 --> 00:28:09.556
what was really tricky for me was that it was a concert version
00:28:09.556 --> 00:28:12.316
we didn't have a director so we have
00:28:12.316 --> 00:28:15.316
a producer and Suzanne you know was very much you know
00:28:15.316 --> 00:28:18.396
looking in on what we did but yeah it's it's it kind
00:28:18.396 --> 00:28:21.136
of ties back to well it's it's a whole different thing like when you
00:28:21.136 --> 00:28:24.256
do a concert version of an opera no one's directing you so I'm
00:28:24.256 --> 00:28:28.416
able to take all my ideas and pop them into that and I even did like a little
00:28:28.416 --> 00:28:32.196
walk across the stage like when she'd usually on stage poison herself and you'd
00:28:32.196 --> 00:28:36.236
see that they didn't want any props or anything so I walked along the stage
00:28:36.236 --> 00:28:39.216
and the girls were all in a row and I like I was saying goodbye to each of them
00:28:39.216 --> 00:28:42.576
and in the in the musical interlude and having that acceptance and that's just something I.
00:28:43.156 --> 00:28:46.016
Like to put in so I wasn't standing there completely and my brother came
00:28:46.016 --> 00:28:48.876
to see the show and when I found out there's an it
00:28:48.876 --> 00:28:51.576
says in the score but also you add an audible sob like
00:28:51.576 --> 00:28:54.736
a real cry yeah and and obviously you have to be careful vocally
00:28:54.736 --> 00:28:57.416
that you don't you know do that and my brother said to me he said it
00:28:57.416 --> 00:29:00.476
was so heartbreaking he said that cry that
00:29:00.476 --> 00:29:03.836
got like a really guttural deep sobbing cry
00:29:03.836 --> 00:29:07.316
he said i've heard you do that in life once
00:29:07.316 --> 00:29:10.196
and he said and he said it nearly broke me when
00:29:10.196 --> 00:29:13.376
you did that on stage i knew you were acting but it but it but it nearly broke
00:29:13.376 --> 00:29:18.336
me and and i i guess it's yeah fine-tuning those kinds of things finding the
00:29:18.336 --> 00:29:23.296
reality of really genuinely feeling that but also doing it in a safe way and
00:29:23.296 --> 00:29:25.756
and in a way that's not going to ruin the performance and the vocal performance
00:29:25.756 --> 00:29:28.616
and stuff as well, which was tricky, tricky to negotiate.
00:29:28.876 --> 00:29:31.536
They are such different roles. And I will tell you, linking back,
00:29:31.796 --> 00:29:35.316
if anyone was listening to the first episode that we recorded a couple of weeks
00:29:35.316 --> 00:29:38.956
ago, when I said to you about, it's nice to be in front of you because I could see your eyebrows.
00:29:39.816 --> 00:29:42.876
I have very expressive eyebrows and a very expressive face.
00:29:42.956 --> 00:29:46.896
And when the girls in the nunnery were at the beginning, Swarangelica doesn't
00:29:46.896 --> 00:29:50.176
engage in all of that, but they're talking about their little sins that they've
00:29:50.176 --> 00:29:51.136
committed. And they're ridiculous.
00:29:51.356 --> 00:29:54.196
Like, oh, I ate too much chocolate or I wanted to get some pasta.
00:29:54.316 --> 00:29:58.576
And I had to be so careful, like not to give a little like sassy eyebrow and
00:29:58.576 --> 00:30:01.016
join in with them because I was like, no, you are not Mosetta.
00:30:02.016 --> 00:30:05.896
There is no sassy eyebrow. So it is difficult going from one to the other per
00:30:05.896 --> 00:30:09.536
night. And I think several of the chorus commented to me about it because,
00:30:10.151 --> 00:30:13.171
in with Mosetta and with Bohem like if you
00:30:13.171 --> 00:30:16.411
saw me backstage I'm very up and chatty and
00:30:16.411 --> 00:30:19.191
bouncy because that's part of who I am yeah so I can bring that
00:30:19.191 --> 00:30:22.151
but when I'm not that at all I I
00:30:22.151 --> 00:30:25.791
put my head down I don't talk to anyone I'm very focused and
00:30:25.791 --> 00:30:28.411
I'm channeling it so that I'm you know because one of the one of
00:30:28.411 --> 00:30:31.091
the things that I learned really early on my career is because I love to chat
00:30:31.091 --> 00:30:34.511
to people I'd be backstage before a show like or before
00:30:34.511 --> 00:30:37.511
a competition or before an audition and then I didn't I didn't
00:30:37.511 --> 00:30:40.471
channel very well you know yes I can switch stuff on easily but
00:30:40.471 --> 00:30:43.191
I wasn't really embodying stuff and I had a coach who said
00:30:43.191 --> 00:30:46.111
to me you really need to take at least like four
00:30:46.111 --> 00:30:49.011
or five minutes before you go on that stage and
00:30:49.011 --> 00:30:51.971
be in that headspace ready to go yeah it's good advice yeah
00:30:51.971 --> 00:30:54.791
and not many people do that and I that's something I've tried to do now and
00:30:54.791 --> 00:30:58.591
and certainly that's what I did in the festival and just to get my head into
00:30:58.591 --> 00:31:01.831
that space and even on the days that I was preparing as you said I had shows
00:31:01.831 --> 00:31:05.251
literally back to back so one the night before I'd be like bouncing bouncing
00:31:05.251 --> 00:31:10.391
bouncing I'd wake up the next day and And already I was in a much different disposition at home.
00:31:10.631 --> 00:31:13.251
And my mum noticed it too. She's like, that's really interesting.
00:31:13.291 --> 00:31:17.091
I said, yeah, because I need to channel that in the sense of the physicality as well.
00:31:17.291 --> 00:31:23.111
I can't wait to find out what you're like on the days of Valkyrie when you're doing Valkyrie.
00:31:23.791 --> 00:31:26.291
I'll be hiring a horse. That's what I'll be doing.
00:31:26.991 --> 00:31:30.971
With that, I think we might wrap it up there. And yeah, we'll chat again next week.
00:31:31.131 --> 00:31:35.771
Everybody, please join us. There'll be more meandering, interesting conversations coming up. Bye.
00:31:36.080 --> 00:31:45.271
Music.