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Welcome to God at Work.
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Today, Gina and I are going to share a great conversation.
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And she and I often have these discussions before we're joined by our guest and offline.
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So you get to see a peek into the deeper thought and heart of what we talk about and where our beliefs intersect in a really cool way.
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And if this is something you enjoy and this content is something you'd like to see us do more of, please put a comment in this video and let us know.
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We'll be glad to do more of it.
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We're just, you know, wanting to glorify God.
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And so sometimes our conversations are very focused on our guests, but we're glad to have other conversations if it feeds the spirit.
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So share with us what your your thoughts are.
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And thanks for joining us today for God at Work.
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Welcome to God at Work.
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Stories of calling, courage, and conviction.
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Through real stories and meaningful conversations, we'll discover how God shows up in the boardroom, the job site, and beyond.
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Here's your hosts, Gina Ventola and Adam Kemper.
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So it's all this clip online where this guy was talking about.
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If you were Satan, how would you trip you as a human up?
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It's interesting because I've been doing some work at my group, and it really relates because I'm I'm seeing these vectors and they're odd.
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Because in the car, I get so worked up in traffic that it takes me like 10 minutes when I get to a destination to recenter.
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And sometimes I walk into that next meeting with chaos energy.
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And it's it's a gross feeling, and it makes me not myself.
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And it's amazing how weak it makes me.
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Like, I don't want to sound like I'm being mean to myself, but it allows the devil to have this opening where it spills into other places.
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Like I'm not my right self after I get all worked up because my technology didn't work, or I was perceiving danger in traffic because somebody sneezed and twitched their steering wheel in my direction, and I'm like overreacting and telling a story about that person.
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And yeah, it makes me lesser, and it's weird because you think of these big things with Satan attacking you, but I think it's for me, it's these weird little small things that allow him, and then it spills over.
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It goes to the rest of my life because I'm off.
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I'm not in God's peace, I'm in Satan's chaos, and I step into it unless I do something about it.
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And I hate that I catch it late.
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Like, I wish I could catch it early.
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But that black hole effect where I'm like, I'm in it.
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Poop.
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Like I caught myself, but I've already said things I don't like.
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I've already wound myself up.
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Like words of death have come out of my mouth, even if it's just to my windshield.
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But I'm like, dang it, how do I catch myself on the front end of this?
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And it's all just evil crud.
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And I think that that's how he trips us up is he, and again, I don't want anyone getting the impression that we're giving him any accolades at all because we're not.
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But knowing your enemy is a very helpful piece of information, and he lies.
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He uses shame, he uses things like that, not conviction, the Holy Spirit uses conviction, but Satan uses shame and lies and fear and all those things because the Bible's really clear that God does not give us a spirit of fear, right?
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But at the same time, when I was pondering that question myself, because I've been sitting with it for about a week, you know, just kind of gnawing on it.
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And for me, I mean it's several places.
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It's relationships, it's my pride, it's uh my abilities or lack thereof.
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I mean, there are times, I mean, we've discussed this offline.
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I'm on the sl I'm probably the slowest runner in my running group.
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No, I know I am, and it bothers me because I do try, I do show up, I do give the effort, I do, but there's been no huge change.
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Like I'm not gaining, you know, a lot of speed.
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And I think he loves that.
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He loves that it bothers me.
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Because what is that, what is underneath of that is what you're getting it to.
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Right, is my pride.
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Yeah, exactly.
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It's pride, and that's just it.
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He he wants you to lose that pride and be joyful where you're at.
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And I can tell you, I I struggle with that.
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I'm a people pleaser extraordinaire, Jeannie.
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You know that.
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I love people pleasing, and so often I appeal to the wrong authority.
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I mean, you've known me for a long time, and you know how I've been with leadership and my deep abiding trust sometimes, where it might not have been appropriately placed, because I was on my journey and I hadn't quite gotten there, and I was putting a lot of trust in a lot of earthly stuff, and you saw the falls, and and that fear around it repeating is a lack of trust in God and a pride that I can make it not happen again.
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And so there is a very relatable behavior in that that I see too, because my pride is what keeps me thinking I can't back to the old leaning on our own understandings.
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That is uh that is a huge tent pole in my my faith process because yeah, I I often find that moment where I'm like, why am I so in the weeds?
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It's it feels like I'm hacking a new path with a machete through the jungle.
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And I'm like, whose whose understanding am I leaning on?
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I am blazing my own trail.
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That's not God makes a way.
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So if I were on God's path, I would be walking down a path because God already made the way.
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I should put the machete down and backtrack to where I lost the plot.
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And that's the key.
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You just hit the nail, is in those circumstances, we have lost the plot.
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We have definitely lost the plot.
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I'll even take it a step further.
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Last night I was, you know, processing some things with God for our audience.
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I tend to write my prayers out.
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It's it's a very cathartic and a very intimate way that I spend time with God.
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And so I was writing last night and I was reminded of that scripture.
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I want to say it's Roman in Romans chapter seven, where Paul says, and I love Paul because of his unabasque humility in that he says basically, why do I do what I don't want to do and yet not do what I want to do?
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That is me in a nutshell.
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I know what to do and still do something else, or do something that deflects from that.
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And I think there's Satan someday is just flicking me.
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Look at that, look at that, look at that.
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And again, he's the great accuser.
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So whenever there's accusatory language that I'm hearing in my head, I know that it's not from God.
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See, and I have a I I'm sure you can relate to this, Gina.
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We all have some relationship, familial person who challenges us to go and and I have that relationship, and it's currently kind of bubbling.
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And my parents last night and I had a conversation where they asked me to step into some some faith on it and and initiate a conversation with this person to try to clear it up.
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And I am going to honor my parents because I think that's a very biblical thing, and also it's something I've been avoiding for all the reasons you're talking about.
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I mean, it's the fear and the pride and all of this.
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I know what has to be done.
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I know the relationship is in the weeds, I know I've lost the plot, I know what I'm supposed to do.
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I don't, I've I'm struggling to bring myself to be okay with doing it and to be who God's telling me to be in this relationship.
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So I very much relate in a very deep way right now because I know what I'm supposed to do.
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And sometimes it's not even that I do something different, I choose nothing over it sometimes.
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I'd rather stand right here and go, no, God, I'm not ready to do that thing.
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I know what I'm supposed to do, but I'm not gonna do it.
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But I won't dishonor you by doing something else.
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But technically I am, because doing nothing is doing something else.
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Sounds a lot like Jonah.
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Yes.
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I think we get like Jonah in those circumstances where we're like, or God tells us, like, let's say your scenario, God tells you, pursuant to Matthew 18, that you need to go to this person directly and talk to them.
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Yeah, but they're not gonna listen, they're not gonna do this, they're not gonna do that.
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That's what I'm doing.
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I'm gonna go jump a ship to you know, somewhere else.
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Uh-huh.
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That's exactly it.
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I know I I know that he won't, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
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Do I know?
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I haven't tried it, and God's telling me to try it.
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So maybe there's more God in his heart than I'm giving him credit for.
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But I'm not willing to.
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Like, it's been a hard thing.
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It we all have those things.
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You know, I I've joked in my life how God has this way.
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It's like jumping out of a plane.
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And you get to that altitude.
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I've never done it, but I I understand the mechanics.
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And that is when it's time to jump, it's time to jump.
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And if you're like a paratrooper in the military, I my understanding is there's two ways it goes.
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You go or you are made to go.
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And I feel like sometimes God works just like that.
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Like, I'm gonna walk you to the door of the plane, I'm gonna turn the light green, and now it's time for you to take the leap.
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And you look at God and you go, no.
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And he goes, Cool, shoves you right out the door.
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Here's a whale.
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Yeah, here's a whale, exactly.
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You don't want to go there?
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Interesting.
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I mean, that's that's so true, but going back to the original question of if I were Satan, how would I trip me up?
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Absolutely, it would be hitting my pride, hitting my pride around specific things, whether it's my abilities, my intelligence.
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Well, the fight with this person is the pride that I'm right.
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So a hundred percent it falls into that.
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It doesn't matter if I'm right, if they're a family member, family is important.
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Forgiveness and grace is given to those you love.
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No one's perfect, and yet my pride has stepped in, and that's that's the devil dancing because it he's separating me from a relationship because I'm leaning on my pride.
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And on understanding, and I'm saying that to myself too.
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So I'm over here like pointing the finger.
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Yeah, so for those watching, this is us coming to stuff in real time.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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This is Adam and I have been friends for at least over a decade, and this is the stuff that usually happens off camera.
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Yeah, we just wanted to share it with everybody.
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It's brilliant.
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Said, why don't you hit record as we have this conversation?
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And so we're sharing it with you.
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Yeah, and and it's it's such an inspiration because your your wisdom and your knowledge brings me forward so much, because that's the other thing.
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I'll I'll I'll bring it back to the subject with this.
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I think for a long time my ignorance was the thing that the devil used too.
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Because I I had a perception of religion and I didn't understand God.
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And because of that understanding of religion, I I was separated from God.
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It I'm not saying people don't have great relationships through the church.
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I just had a personal experience that didn't bring me closer.
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So when I finally put that pride of my own again, leaning on my own understanding, and so you've been key in that and helping me find the right questions to ponder upon, like this, because in that I've gone, wait, this is this is the faith I've been searching for.
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This is the theological depth that I need to understand what God is.
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I mean, I'm never gonna have full understanding, it says it.
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But God also talks to us in ways that are really simple and really straightforward because God knows how thick we are.
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And you help me to help me to start there and grow my faith through that because I'm as thick as any of us come.
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Oh, that makes two of us.
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Pride is a tough thing because it disguises itself in different ways.
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I heard a quote last week, and I hope I get this right.
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Perfection is pride dressed up as high standards.
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Yeah.
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I I you know, I I I think I mentioned it already, but uh, I've been this word hypervigilance has been coming up in my life and something I'm trying to work around.
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And I have these weird habits, and my my my mom called me on one of them last night.
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She's like, I always find it weird that you have to wait till everybody in your house is in bed, and when they're on summer break, that messes with you because they they don't have to get up, so they stay up later.
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But I have this weird belief that I have to do a perimeter check at the end of the night once everybody's ready in their bedroom and in bed, because I'm making sure everything's safe, as if I'm the provider of safety for my home.
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And the delusion and pride that comes with this idea, like it's it's to the point where if I don't like if I wake up on the couch at one in the morning, I still have to do it before I can go up to bed.
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I've already been asleep.
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There's no real purpose for it, and I'm not the provider of safety, God is.
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But I have definitely put myself in a place where I'm like, without this protection, my family is at risk.
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Instead of just saying, God protect us tonight, and always.
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So, what fear do you think is driving this?
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So I grew up as a kid who I had ADHD, but my parents believed in helping me overcome it with process, and I'm very thankful for that.
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But I learned this belief that my process makes sure things get done right.
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If I follow my process, I will not mess up, which is a fair standard to set as a kid who needs to be organized.
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But I've overcorrected for the problem.
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Instead of just having it be my process keeps me on track.
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My I've convinced myself that my process will create perfection and safety and stability and nothing will break.
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And if I just do my process right, and every time something goes wrong, it's probably because I missed something in my process.
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So it's it's a behavior that was healthy that I've overcorrected for in adulthood, and now I'm having to bring it back to a healthy place because it started out in a healthy place, but my pride got wrapped up in it.
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And I think again to your question, this is a place where the devil said, Ooh, weakness.
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I can turn a process into an obsession that is tied to fear.
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And instead of just having it be things that keep me on track, now it's almost like OCD rituals that if I don't do, I feel like I can't rest.
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That's a lot.
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It's a story I tell myself, and it's it may and hypervigilance is exhausting.
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So stepping back from that is stepping back from a place of anticipated chaos into a place of God's peace.
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And at the same time, I think my son's blessing and curse of going through cancer the way he did.
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It taught me that as long as nobody's trying to die, it's a good day.
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So I'm a lot more peaceful in a lot of ways.
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And at the same time, it brought on some of these process-driven things because I started really stepping up the I got to make sure this is good with Joel, and I got to take care of this, and I got to take care of that, because his life's in the balance.
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And if I don't do my part to support my son through his recovery, then something bad could happen.
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So there's there's some unprocessed trauma inside of that still, because what I learned was good, but there were some behaviors that I've only recently realized that that experience also turned into some bad habits and bad behaviors that are separating me from God more than I realized.
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Because it's not just what would it look like to end my my night with just simply saying, I'm safe because I'm in your arms, God.
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Good night.
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So every day a little closer.
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I mean, it's I understand.
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I mean, I'm hyper-vigilant in different ways, but it's the same.
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And I find myself in situations where if I don't do it, it doesn't get done, kind of mentality.
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And not just, you know, at home, but also in my professional life too.
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Those types of things where whether it's networking, whether it's leads groups, you and I are both involved in multiple and run multiple leads groups, and that thought process comes very often.
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Or sometimes it comes to me faster, and I think you're the same way, and so I see the need before others do, or maybe I'm thinking it's a bigger one than it actually is, which is probably closer to reality.
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But in that moment, my thought is we have to do this, and if we don't do this, this is bad.
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If it's going to be, it's up to me.
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I have said that phrase so much, you could stitch it on a pillow at my house.
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But again, I still think that's a form of pride.
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It is.
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I agree.
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Yeah, I'll handle it, I'll handle it.
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I'm gonna sit back and lean on my own understanding because I'm the one with all the answers, and all of y'all are not, which is such a prideful response.
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That is pride, pride, pride, pride, pride all over the place.
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Oh, yeah.
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Well, and a mutual friend of ours, Shane, gives me a hard time for this.
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He's like, if it's going to be, it's up to he.
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Try practicing that one.
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I was like, Oh, that's a good pivot.
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Yes, a really good pivot.
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Like, it sounds enough the same that I might be able to get my brain to embrace it because it's not my heart that has the problem, it's my brain.
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My brain is is the I'm gonna get that thing done engine.
00:21:04.880 --> 00:21:14.640
And I mean, even like it is such an active process for me to say, I'm gonna pray before this meeting, I'm gonna pray about this meeting.
00:21:14.880 --> 00:21:18.799
Like, I my brain is just next thing, next thing, next thing, engine.
00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:20.480
And I think you're the same way, Gina.
00:21:20.640 --> 00:21:34.799
So the active process of just saying, I'm gonna pray for God's guidance over this meeting, that act has been a habit that has taken me effort to develop because it's not natural for my brain to pause and ponder.
00:21:34.960 --> 00:21:38.319
It it finds answers too quickly to need to do that.
00:21:38.480 --> 00:21:45.920
And blessing, but pride's curse right there, too, of because I can, I don't ask God.
00:21:46.000 --> 00:21:51.839
I just go again with my own understanding because my pride says that fast brain is spot on.
00:21:52.799 --> 00:21:53.920
And I agree.
00:21:54.079 --> 00:22:03.920
I mean, I think part of it now I was raised Protestant, I'm still Protestant, but in Because I hear this what I'm about to say a lot from Catholics.
00:22:06.559 --> 00:22:12.000
And I don't like to bother God with the little things.
00:22:14.880 --> 00:22:22.400
He's handling running the universe, making sure a lot of us don't die from stupid choices, all those things.
00:22:25.359 --> 00:22:29.200
So I don't like to bother him with the little things.
00:22:30.160 --> 00:22:34.240
And that's the wrestle that I have constantly of.
00:22:34.480 --> 00:22:36.000
And it's gotten better.
00:22:36.160 --> 00:22:49.039
I love that you and I had a conversation a while back, and you said that you were starting to pray over proposals before you deliver them to potential clients, which I thought was genius.
00:22:49.359 --> 00:22:54.079
And such a faith-based approach.
00:22:54.240 --> 00:22:58.319
Talk about bringing God to work, having God at work.
00:22:58.480 --> 00:23:01.200
That's that's a perfect example of it.
00:23:01.519 --> 00:23:06.400
And it got me to thinking more about okay, God, show me what I'm not bringing to you.
00:23:07.519 --> 00:23:08.960
It was a lot.
00:23:29.920 --> 00:23:30.240
Okay.
00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:33.200
Okay, I'm sorry, I'll do better.
00:23:34.640 --> 00:23:42.559
Kind of like when you want a specific color car, like I want to buy a red car, and then everywhere you go, you start noticing red cars.
00:23:42.799 --> 00:23:44.240
It's kind of like that.
00:23:45.680 --> 00:23:47.119
I just met with this person.
00:23:47.200 --> 00:23:51.200
I just did a one-on-one with this person, and I didn't pray before I did it.
00:23:51.440 --> 00:23:52.640
Oh, I totally.
00:23:52.799 --> 00:24:03.519
And I do that that process is still in that phase for me where I do, I catch myself where I'm like, I was too fast today, and I had two meetings that I never prayed over.
00:24:03.680 --> 00:24:04.640
I just did.
00:24:05.519 --> 00:24:08.960
And I try to, you know, go back and you know, it's like a kid.
00:24:09.119 --> 00:24:14.079
So there's something I I kind of I think I pray like a child sometimes.
00:24:14.480 --> 00:24:30.079
Because it's like, God, I didn't pray over this thing and my homework's late, but I'm gonna pray now over it and ask you to forgive me for not praying over it as a part of it and make whatever happened in that meeting still be have have been your will, even though I didn't ask in advance.
00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:32.160
Homework in late.
00:24:32.559 --> 00:24:36.880
Okay, first of all, I've done that prayer more often than I'm willing to admit.
00:24:37.359 --> 00:24:43.039
Kind of a not a preemptive, but a post-emptive, I guess would be the word.
00:24:43.279 --> 00:24:46.400
Okay, God, do you know what I just did in there and I didn't ask for your help?
00:24:46.640 --> 00:24:49.039
Could you help me go make it go well?
00:24:49.359 --> 00:24:50.160
Absolutely.
00:24:50.480 --> 00:24:55.039
So I don't want to give you the impression that I'm sitting over here high on my ivory tower.
00:24:55.279 --> 00:24:57.200
I do that myself.
00:24:58.880 --> 00:25:18.319
But the other thing is that making him that priority, you know, the third the first part of the verse that we keep the verses we keep talking about, Proverbs 3, 5, and 6 is acknowledge the Lord in all your ways and lean not in your own understanding.
00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:20.400
Yeah.
00:25:20.640 --> 00:25:24.240
In all your ways, acknowledge him, and he will make your path straight.
00:25:28.400 --> 00:25:29.279
That's hard.
00:25:29.359 --> 00:25:32.480
That's just hard all over the place.
00:25:37.119 --> 00:25:39.359
I don't I have my doubts.
00:25:39.519 --> 00:25:44.000
They can have that conversation with God as far as the reality of that statement.
00:25:44.240 --> 00:25:53.200
But I can tell you, as someone who has been a Christian for decades and decades, I still struggle with that.
00:25:54.559 --> 00:25:59.440
I still struggle with letting go.
00:25:59.680 --> 00:26:08.799
I mean, one of our friends, one of our mutual friends, told me that he made his word of the year sacrifice.
00:26:10.880 --> 00:26:12.880
And it just blew my mind.
00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:17.119
Meaning, or I'm sorry, not sacrifice, surrender.
00:26:17.359 --> 00:26:18.799
Surrender, yeah.
00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:27.599
And so being able to just hold your hand up and give it to God, that's hard.
00:26:28.000 --> 00:26:29.599
Hard as heck.
00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:33.680
So it took me most of the first half of the year to figure out my word.
00:26:34.480 --> 00:26:34.799
Okay.
00:26:35.279 --> 00:26:44.640
And it's interesting because now that I've gotten through the first half of the year and kind of looked back, I realize it it's a really simple word.
00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:47.440
And it's the first half of everything he's asking.
00:26:47.599 --> 00:26:49.839
He's asking the word is B.
00:26:51.119 --> 00:26:54.480
Be with me, be at peace, be present.
00:26:54.720 --> 00:26:58.400
There's a lot of that that has come through in my word for the year.
00:26:58.480 --> 00:27:02.160
So be is my word, and I'm finding it just as hard.
00:27:02.400 --> 00:27:06.960
Like, surrender's a step further, and just being is so dang hard.
00:27:07.039 --> 00:27:12.480
So surrender right now feels like crossing the Rubicon because I'm just working on being.
00:27:12.720 --> 00:27:15.440
If I can be, maybe I can surrender next.
00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:29.519
But when he said that, that's part of what helped me land on B was like, I'm not at surrender, but I think I'm just trying to like sit with God, be with God, be present with others, be aware of what God wants me to do.
00:27:29.759 --> 00:27:32.799
So this word be keeps coming up.
00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:36.960
But surrender, holy Lord, that sounds hard.
00:27:37.839 --> 00:27:39.440
And I absolutely love that.
00:27:39.519 --> 00:27:41.279
That's actually a great word.
00:27:44.319 --> 00:27:59.599
I mine for this year is stewardship or steward taking care of what God has entrusted to me, which I have stumbled and stumbled and stumbled and stumbled time and time again with that.
00:27:59.680 --> 00:28:02.319
But part of that is stewarding relationships.
00:28:02.559 --> 00:28:09.200
And relationships, especially the special ones, require you to be present.
00:28:09.359 --> 00:28:15.039
And I've been guilty, whether I'm typing something while someone's trying to tell me something.
00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:17.680
That's not being present.
00:28:18.319 --> 00:28:20.880
That's not stopping what you're doing and listening.
00:28:22.559 --> 00:28:26.799
And this online world is so easy to be distracted.
00:28:27.359 --> 00:28:28.400
You're right.
00:28:29.680 --> 00:28:30.640
Exactly.
00:28:31.119 --> 00:28:32.960
Have you read Theo of Golden?
00:28:33.039 --> 00:28:34.880
Have you heard of the book Theo of Golden?
00:28:35.119 --> 00:28:35.680
I've heard of it.
00:28:35.759 --> 00:28:36.960
I haven't read it.
00:28:39.279 --> 00:28:47.359
So a brief synopsis of it is this older gentleman, he's in his 80s, named Theo, if you hadn't figured that out.
00:28:47.680 --> 00:28:50.160
Shows up in this small town in Georgia called Golden.
00:28:50.240 --> 00:28:54.240
It is not based on our town, our city here called Golden.
00:28:54.400 --> 00:29:03.440
And he finds this, I believe it's a coffee shop, but it also has all these sketches of people in town.
00:29:05.039 --> 00:29:15.920
And he starts buying them and he tracks down the people who are the subject of the sketch, and he just hears their story.
00:29:17.039 --> 00:29:18.960
And these stories are powerful.
00:29:19.119 --> 00:29:26.960
There are ones who are really, really great, and there's some that are like, wow, I can't believe you're still here.
00:29:28.559 --> 00:29:30.319
I mean, just amazing, powerful.
00:29:30.400 --> 00:29:36.240
But my takeaway from this entire book, and anyone watching, go read it.
00:29:36.319 --> 00:29:37.200
It's fantastic.
00:29:37.359 --> 00:29:48.240
Is the art of audibling it right now and being present with that person that you're with, kind of like what we're doing right now.
00:29:49.599 --> 00:29:52.079
Yeah, I definitely want to find that book.
00:29:52.160 --> 00:29:57.200
I just put it on my uh audible list because that kind of inspiration.
00:29:58.640 --> 00:30:00.559
I also need some of that.
00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:08.720
But it's something because, like we spoke of earlier, I'm thinking of the next thing.
00:30:09.039 --> 00:30:15.759
I missed out on some great connections because of that.
00:30:16.960 --> 00:30:21.519
Well, and and you know, it's it's interesting as my kids are reaching adulthood.
00:30:21.599 --> 00:30:26.640
I'm I'm at a weird crossroads, and I guess it's probably what they call the midlife crisis.
00:30:26.799 --> 00:30:37.839
It doesn't feel very crisis-y to me, it's more kind of looking forward at what my my next chapter looks like and looking back a little bit at the legacy that my kids already represent.
00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:53.119
And when I think about what I want out of the next chapter, when you talk about that, like if I uh if if I end up at the gates with the well done, my good and faithful son, I want people down here to be like, he listened, he cared, he poured into us.
00:30:53.279 --> 00:30:57.759
These that it the earthly legacy, I think it matters to me.
00:30:57.839 --> 00:31:12.480
I I think most people have a certain amount of that that they care about, that they want to leave a trail of good works and kind words, so that when they leave this earth, people honor you in a kind way.
00:31:13.039 --> 00:31:14.880
Your life had meaning to them.
00:31:15.039 --> 00:31:17.039
And so I think about that a little bit more.
00:31:17.119 --> 00:31:30.640
And someone like that who invests is a great model as well for me because I want to do, I don't want to do it performatively, I want to live a life that lends myself to ending up in that place just naturally.
00:31:31.200 --> 00:31:38.880
So while being mindful, I think those kind of stories of inspiration are a great guidepost, too, of like somebody lived this.
00:31:39.039 --> 00:31:53.200
This isn't just a story, this is a lived experience, and it can be yours if you make the same choices, which is I think a beautiful way for God to tell us that like there is a path to do exactly what you want and honor me.
00:31:53.359 --> 00:31:54.799
Let me show you it.
00:31:56.559 --> 00:32:13.920
I would agree with that, and I think a few years ago, I wrote a marketing plan for our business with the example of Jesus in mind.
00:32:15.039 --> 00:32:17.200
What did Jesus do in his ministry?
00:32:17.519 --> 00:32:20.559
Well, number one, he listened to people.
00:32:22.240 --> 00:32:25.279
In fact, he listened more than he talked.
00:32:26.160 --> 00:32:33.920
He asked good questions, he never left people the same as he found them.
00:32:37.119 --> 00:32:52.559
He taught people referring back to the Bible, he always pointed to his father, and I wrote, I took those things and wrote a marketing plan based on that.
00:32:52.880 --> 00:33:01.519
Now, with that said, I am lacking on my social media stuff, so sorry, audience, but yes, focusing on that.
00:33:01.759 --> 00:33:06.000
Is it perfect as far as do we hit our goals?
00:33:06.240 --> 00:33:07.440
Absolutely not.
00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:20.079
I mean, we stumble, we get busy, we forget, we didn't take it to God, all of those things, and and yet I take such great peace.
00:33:20.319 --> 00:33:27.839
David's my favorite, because David being God's favorite gives me so much hope.
00:33:28.079 --> 00:33:32.240
Like the center of it to me is just keep trying.
00:33:32.400 --> 00:33:35.759
It's not about the perfection, it's about the intention.
00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:38.720
When he was in the depths, he talked to God.
00:33:38.880 --> 00:33:41.039
When he was in the heights, he talked to God.
00:33:41.279 --> 00:33:44.880
When he was in the slow parts in between, he talked to God.
00:33:46.559 --> 00:33:49.119
It it seems the same kind of thing in this case.
00:33:49.279 --> 00:33:52.960
You built a plan so the business is always focused on God.
00:33:53.039 --> 00:33:53.920
It's not perfect.
00:33:54.000 --> 00:33:57.920
There are some times you're doing greater at that and lesser at that.
00:33:58.160 --> 00:34:01.599
But the intention behind it brings God's favor.
00:34:03.759 --> 00:34:07.359
And that's my that is my ultimate goal.
00:34:08.159 --> 00:34:14.320
But I'm still working on the execution piece of what does that look like in a practical terms.
00:34:15.119 --> 00:34:17.840
As we all right.
00:34:18.239 --> 00:34:23.599
And speaking of David, our church is going through the psalms during the summer.
00:34:23.679 --> 00:34:34.800
And yesterday's psalm was Psalm 51, which is the one that he wrote after all the mess with Bathsheba and having Uriah killed and stuff.
00:34:36.559 --> 00:34:53.039
And it refers to, I believe it's 2 Samuel chapter 11, where it talks about how this all started was basically it was spring, and it was time when the kings went out to war with their army.
00:34:53.760 --> 00:34:56.000
But David stayed in Jerusalem.
00:34:57.199 --> 00:35:02.719
And so I kind of sat on that verse for the last 24 hours.
00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:08.559
Uh would it be fair to say in that moment that David chose comfort?
00:35:08.800 --> 00:35:14.400
Because I'm trying to figure out why didn't David go out with his army?
00:35:15.519 --> 00:35:18.159
It's kind of what kings did at the time.
00:35:18.400 --> 00:35:21.039
They led their armies into battle.
00:35:21.519 --> 00:35:23.599
Was he choosing comfort?
00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:38.960
There's a part of me that also says, like, he was his presence might not have brought God's favor to the army because of where he was, and he stayed behind and groveled for God's mercy a lot in that, too.
00:35:39.760 --> 00:35:41.760
Well, because of choices that he made.
00:35:42.079 --> 00:35:42.800
Exactly.
00:35:43.119 --> 00:35:57.199
But if he he had been, if he hadn't done that and had been present with his army, perhaps God's favor wouldn't have been on them because his presence was not in a favorable place at the time.
00:35:57.440 --> 00:36:03.840
So there's that side of it that I've always wondered too of like, did he have because he would want to be with his army.
00:36:04.800 --> 00:36:07.360
So it's almost like a punishment, too.
00:36:07.519 --> 00:36:13.199
Like you have to stay behind and let me be in charge while you get right with me.
00:36:17.679 --> 00:36:22.559
I got the impression that he decided not to go.
00:36:23.199 --> 00:36:24.159
That was clear.
00:36:24.559 --> 00:36:33.840
But to bring it home to a point that you just made, but for that choice, we wouldn't have had King Solomon.
00:36:37.360 --> 00:36:39.440
Because Bathsheba was his mother.
00:36:39.920 --> 00:36:40.559
Yeah.
00:36:46.000 --> 00:36:52.480
But I've been kind of sitting there saying in that moment was David choosing comfort.
00:36:52.639 --> 00:36:59.199
And if that's the case, how many times have I chose comfort over what God wanted me to do?
00:37:02.239 --> 00:37:03.679
Because comfort's easy.
00:37:03.920 --> 00:37:04.800
Comfort's really easy.
00:37:04.960 --> 00:37:09.199
It requires, you know, most of the time in action.
00:37:10.400 --> 00:37:13.920
And that's back to that shoving out of the door of the plane.
00:37:14.000 --> 00:37:17.840
I think that's the inside the plane is safe.
00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:19.119
You're not falling.
00:37:19.199 --> 00:37:21.280
You're there's a comfort to that.
00:37:21.519 --> 00:37:28.079
And I do think that God comes to a point where Jonah, you're comfortable on land, great.
00:37:28.320 --> 00:37:29.679
That's not where you're supposed to be.
00:37:29.840 --> 00:37:31.760
And either you're gonna go or you're gonna go.
00:37:32.000 --> 00:37:33.599
Same, same, but different.
00:37:33.920 --> 00:37:44.719
And what I like about the story of Jonah is when God says, I need you to go to Nineveh and preach to them because I want, you know, I'm gonna destroy them.
00:37:45.119 --> 00:37:47.519
And Jonah's like, No, you're not.
00:37:47.920 --> 00:37:50.159
I'm gonna go there, I'm gonna preach.
00:37:50.400 --> 00:37:55.440
They're gonna say, you know, we're so sorry, God forgive us, and then you're not gonna do anything.
00:37:55.599 --> 00:37:59.519
And that's kind of what happened ultimately.
00:38:00.880 --> 00:38:04.000
But that shows God's mercy in that moment.
00:38:06.320 --> 00:38:09.599
But he needed him to go and do that.
00:38:10.159 --> 00:38:13.280
He needed to be the catalyst to start that going.
00:38:13.599 --> 00:38:14.239
Yeah.
00:38:14.559 --> 00:38:19.760
Because without him, he would have had to destroy them without the preaching and the redemption.
00:38:21.599 --> 00:38:22.079
Yeah.
00:38:22.320 --> 00:38:23.760
But yeah, I could see Jonah.
00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:24.880
No, you're not.
00:38:25.199 --> 00:38:25.840
Yeah.
00:38:26.079 --> 00:38:28.800
Well, and and we're back to pride again.
00:38:30.239 --> 00:38:38.239
And at the same time, it's fun when God lets us be right, but it wasn't because we were right, it was because God made sure we saw his plan.
00:38:38.559 --> 00:38:54.320
It's one of the few times you get a clearer view, and some so often our pride confuses that with our knowledge, our discernment, when really it's just that God allowed us to see the end game better than he had in other things.
00:38:57.679 --> 00:39:01.599
You know, your use of the word allowed there made me think of something else.
00:39:01.760 --> 00:39:05.039
We're both parents, and we have adult children.
00:39:07.920 --> 00:39:16.320
One of the hardest things I think as a parent is to allow your child to stumble so that they can learn from an experience.
00:39:19.039 --> 00:39:23.280
Imagine what God must go through.
00:39:25.360 --> 00:39:36.719
And how hard it must be for him to allow us to go through certain things when we know, and he knows he could just and make it go away.
00:39:37.199 --> 00:39:37.760
Yeah.
00:39:39.440 --> 00:39:45.840
That is that is hard for the kid thing at a deep, deep level.
00:39:46.159 --> 00:40:05.679
And the flip side of that for the rest of the world and for God's view is something I've it's one of the reasons I struggled because I came to God through history and politics and government, kind of to a degree, and the legalistic side of religion and things like that.
00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:14.400
So one of the things that I've always struggled with is this how can we be so horrible to one another?
00:40:14.639 --> 00:40:25.199
And like, I'll be honest, one of the phrases I've said that I'm not completely proud of is I bet God regrets giving us free will, because boy, have we done bad things with that.
00:40:25.440 --> 00:40:37.840
If he could just keep us on the straight and narrow without our stupid free will, we would be great, but our free will allows us to be awful to one another, and how hard must that be for the father to watch.
00:40:39.119 --> 00:40:42.400
But we would be his puppets if we didn't have free will.
00:40:42.719 --> 00:40:43.280
Exactly.
00:40:43.440 --> 00:40:44.880
And that's not what he wanted.
00:40:45.039 --> 00:40:51.360
And so this idea that he regrets it is foolish of me to think and is arrogant of me to think.
00:40:51.599 --> 00:41:18.079
And at the same time, what I'm not really leaning into there is how much it must hurt the father how we dishonor him and how we stumble, and how we I mean, unfortunately, we live in a wor in a country, and I don't know if it's the world, but I know it's our country that non is the largest growing faith com uh sector, and and God certainly cries over that.
00:41:21.840 --> 00:41:29.840
And I can imagine too, he is at the choices we make and the choices we don't make.
00:41:31.119 --> 00:41:38.320
But at the same time, his ways are not our ways, his thoughts are not our thoughts.
00:41:39.360 --> 00:41:41.440
And so we don't know.
00:41:42.159 --> 00:41:44.559
I mean, back to the David example.
00:41:44.719 --> 00:41:51.360
David didn't go off with the king, what kings normally do, and go off to war with his troops, he stayed home.
00:41:51.679 --> 00:42:01.920
He walks out on the patio and he sees a lady being bathed over on the roof over there, and he's like, Hey, I like her, send her to me.
00:42:02.239 --> 00:42:11.440
Even though he had multiple wives, it's not like and concubines, it's not like he didn't have access, I'll put it that way.
00:42:11.760 --> 00:42:13.440
And he sends her over.
00:42:13.760 --> 00:42:20.239
There's an argument as to whether she felt compelled to come or she came of her own volition.
00:42:20.400 --> 00:42:28.079
I tend to think she probably couldn't have told him no, because he's the king, or felt that she couldn't have told him no.
00:42:30.159 --> 00:42:36.800
They do their business, she comes back a month later and says, Um, I'm pregnant.
00:42:38.639 --> 00:42:59.440
And he tries to lean on his own understanding and brings her husband Uriah home from the battles and tries to get him to go home to spend time with his wife, and he refuses to because Uriah actually has a moral compass, and he understands I can't do that.
00:42:59.679 --> 00:43:22.639
I'll I'll sleep in the floor of your house, your castle, your temple, but I'm not gonna go home because there are still men out there fighting, and so David's best solution was okay, since we can't do it that way, because I gotta cover this up because I messed up because of the choices I've made.
00:43:23.440 --> 00:43:24.960
Hey, Joab, come here.
00:43:25.119 --> 00:43:36.159
All right, when you guys go out to battle, attack them from the front, make sure you rise in the front and then pull back, let him be killed.
00:43:38.079 --> 00:43:40.159
And that's exactly what happens.
00:43:40.320 --> 00:43:46.639
And Joab comes back and he's like, you know, we've lost the battle, and David goes off on him.
00:43:47.679 --> 00:43:54.880
I can't believe he did this, and just goes off on him, and Joab goes, and Uriah's dead.
00:43:55.280 --> 00:43:58.320
And I could see David in that moment going.
00:44:00.719 --> 00:44:13.199
Like, just stop talking because Joab's given him that look like, don't talk to me like we both don't know what happened, what you caused to happen.
00:44:14.239 --> 00:44:34.000
And then Nathan the prophet comes in and tells this wonderful story about this guy who this rich ruler who had a bunch of sheep, and he invites this guy to dinner who has one, and he wants that guy's sheep to be prepared for the dinner, even though he had all these sheep.
00:44:34.880 --> 00:44:38.960
And David gets indignant and says, Well, that guy should die.
00:44:39.920 --> 00:44:41.280
How selfish can you be?
00:44:41.440 --> 00:44:45.840
And Nathan goes, That guy is you.
00:44:58.639 --> 00:44:59.280
Yeah.
00:45:01.039 --> 00:45:02.000
Thank you.
00:45:03.360 --> 00:45:10.239
I mean, that yeah, I think about that story a lot because we all make dumb choices.
00:45:10.559 --> 00:45:12.239
I make a lot of them.
00:45:12.480 --> 00:45:13.119
Yeah.
00:45:13.920 --> 00:45:22.639
No, God doesn't waste a thing, but that was definitely having to make uh a beautiful thing out of a pile of stink.
00:45:23.519 --> 00:45:30.880
So then Beth Sheep, you know, he marries Beth Sheba because we gotta, you know, right, we gotta sanctify this thing, legalize it.
00:45:31.679 --> 00:45:33.440
And of course, that baby dies.
00:45:33.920 --> 00:45:35.760
It's sad, but that baby dies.
00:45:36.079 --> 00:45:40.559
But through that relationship, through that marriage is where we got solid.
00:45:42.800 --> 00:45:49.760
And so, kind of like what you said, we don't, I don't presume to know the mind of God.
00:45:52.639 --> 00:45:56.480
But at the same time, it's like I wouldn't have seen that coming.
00:45:56.960 --> 00:45:57.280
No.
00:45:59.760 --> 00:46:00.239
Yeah.
00:46:00.960 --> 00:46:07.599
And God knew that was gonna happen when He had when He had Samuel anoint David as king.
00:46:11.039 --> 00:46:12.960
And he was a kid at the time.
00:46:13.280 --> 00:46:13.920
Yeah.
00:46:14.320 --> 00:46:15.679
You know, like a teenager.
00:46:15.760 --> 00:46:22.000
He wasn't, he had to wait for years whilst Saul stopped trying to kill him.
00:46:22.960 --> 00:46:25.599
I mean, God plays the ultimate long game.
00:46:26.559 --> 00:46:27.920
Yes, yes.
00:46:28.239 --> 00:46:29.599
Amen to that.
00:46:34.320 --> 00:46:38.800
So back to my original question.
00:46:38.960 --> 00:46:40.239
You're Satan.
00:46:42.239 --> 00:46:43.840
Where would you hit Adam?
00:46:52.239 --> 00:46:54.239
I think we land at pride.
00:46:57.440 --> 00:47:00.480
And all of the tentacles of that monster.
00:47:06.800 --> 00:47:07.920
Amen to that.
00:47:08.159 --> 00:47:08.480
Amen.
00:47:08.960 --> 00:47:11.519
And I would have to say the same for me too.
00:47:15.039 --> 00:47:19.280
Because even my fear is based in a pride that I can control things.
00:47:21.599 --> 00:47:23.360
Oh, you like to control things?
00:47:23.519 --> 00:47:24.800
I never have a problem with that.
00:47:24.960 --> 00:47:27.280
I am just go with the flow.
00:47:29.440 --> 00:47:30.639
Sure, whatever.
00:47:30.960 --> 00:47:37.760
I have a friend who uh her her response to go with the flow is hilarious because she's not a go with the flow person.
00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:38.400
Great.
00:47:38.559 --> 00:47:40.960
Can you define what time the flow will start?
00:47:41.199 --> 00:47:43.280
Can you define the direction of the flow?
00:47:43.519 --> 00:47:45.679
How will how fast will the flow be?
00:47:45.840 --> 00:47:48.320
And when will the flow have exits available?
00:47:48.559 --> 00:47:50.559
Yeah, that yes.
00:47:50.800 --> 00:47:54.320
That's not going with the flow, but that's the flow I go with.
00:47:54.480 --> 00:47:56.480
Let's define and control that flow.
00:47:56.639 --> 00:47:58.800
Let's choke a river straight.
00:48:03.920 --> 00:48:08.239
Well, we have had a deep, deep discussion.
00:48:08.559 --> 00:48:09.280
Absolutely.
00:48:09.440 --> 00:48:10.159
I've loved this.
00:48:10.320 --> 00:48:10.800
Thank you.
00:48:11.119 --> 00:48:11.920
Me too.
00:48:12.159 --> 00:48:19.760
And to our audience, again, these are kind of the discussions Adam and I normally have, sometimes with our guests off camera.
00:48:20.880 --> 00:48:26.719
And sometimes they have some historical facts tied in there as well.
00:48:27.199 --> 00:48:35.119
But at the end of the day, we love this podcast.
00:48:35.360 --> 00:48:37.280
We love one another.
00:48:37.599 --> 00:48:44.000
We love God and Jesus for what he has done for us.
00:48:44.239 --> 00:48:45.360
Talk about choices.
00:48:45.519 --> 00:48:46.880
We didn't even get into that.
00:48:46.960 --> 00:48:50.320
The choices that Jesus made for us.
00:48:54.880 --> 00:48:57.519
And now we know what we can talk about the next time.
00:48:57.760 --> 00:49:00.239
Yeah, we know what we can talk about the next time.
00:49:00.480 --> 00:49:03.440
So, Adam, would you feel comfortable praying this out?
00:49:03.760 --> 00:49:04.480
Absolutely.
00:49:04.639 --> 00:49:06.320
Thank you for the opportunity.
00:49:07.119 --> 00:49:11.360
Dear Father God, thank you for this blessed time together.
00:49:11.679 --> 00:49:17.760
May these words be anointed by you and reach the ears of those who need to hear them.
00:49:18.000 --> 00:49:28.480
To hear that they're not alone in the fight that they fight, and that the struggle to grow closer to you is one that we relate to and God understands.
00:49:28.960 --> 00:49:39.199
Thank you for Gina and the time she shares with me weekly, and all of the energy and trust she shared with me in leading me closer to you, Father God.
00:49:40.400 --> 00:49:46.079
May this podcast serve you, and may we be blessed to all the ears that hear it.
00:49:46.320 --> 00:49:47.679
In your name we pray.
00:49:48.000 --> 00:49:48.639
Amen.
00:49:49.599 --> 00:49:50.239
Amen.
00:49:53.199 --> 00:49:59.840
This is God at Work, reminding you to lead with faith, serve with purpose, and live out your calling.
00:50:00.079 --> 00:50:04.960
Until we meet again, keep walking boldly in your faith at work and beyond.
00:50:05.039 --> 00:50:09.440
And remember, your business is your ministry.
00:00:01.840 --> 00:00:03.600
Welcome to God at Work.
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Today, Gina and I are going to share a great conversation.
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And she and I often have these discussions before we're joined by our guest and offline.
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So you get to see a peek into the deeper thought and heart of what we talk about and where our beliefs intersect in a really cool way.
00:00:22.399 --> 00:00:30.480
And if this is something you enjoy and this content is something you'd like to see us do more of, please put a comment in this video and let us know.
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We'll be glad to do more of it.
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We're just, you know, wanting to glorify God.
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And so sometimes our conversations are very focused on our guests, but we're glad to have other conversations if it feeds the spirit.
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So share with us what your your thoughts are.
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And thanks for joining us today for God at Work.
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Welcome to God at Work.
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Stories of calling, courage, and conviction.
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Through real stories and meaningful conversations, we'll discover how God shows up in the boardroom, the job site, and beyond.
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Here's your hosts, Gina Ventola and Adam Kemper.
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So it's all this clip online where this guy was talking about.
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If you were Satan, how would you trip you as a human up?
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It's interesting because I've been doing some work at my group, and it really relates because I'm I'm seeing these vectors and they're odd.
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Because in the car, I get so worked up in traffic that it takes me like 10 minutes when I get to a destination to recenter.
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And sometimes I walk into that next meeting with chaos energy.
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And it's it's a gross feeling, and it makes me not myself.
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And it's amazing how weak it makes me.
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Like, I don't want to sound like I'm being mean to myself, but it allows the devil to have this opening where it spills into other places.
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Like I'm not my right self after I get all worked up because my technology didn't work, or I was perceiving danger in traffic because somebody sneezed and twitched their steering wheel in my direction, and I'm like overreacting and telling a story about that person.
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And yeah, it makes me lesser, and it's weird because you think of these big things with Satan attacking you, but I think it's for me, it's these weird little small things that allow him, and then it spills over.
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It goes to the rest of my life because I'm off.
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I'm not in God's peace, I'm in Satan's chaos, and I step into it unless I do something about it.
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And I hate that I catch it late.
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Like, I wish I could catch it early.
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But that black hole effect where I'm like, I'm in it.
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Poop.
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Like I caught myself, but I've already said things I don't like.
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I've already wound myself up.
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Like words of death have come out of my mouth, even if it's just to my windshield.
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But I'm like, dang it, how do I catch myself on the front end of this?
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And it's all just evil crud.
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And I think that that's how he trips us up is he, and again, I don't want anyone getting the impression that we're giving him any accolades at all because we're not.
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But knowing your enemy is a very helpful piece of information, and he lies.
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He uses shame, he uses things like that, not conviction, the Holy Spirit uses conviction, but Satan uses shame and lies and fear and all those things because the Bible's really clear that God does not give us a spirit of fear, right?
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But at the same time, when I was pondering that question myself, because I've been sitting with it for about a week, you know, just kind of gnawing on it.
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And for me, I mean it's several places.
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It's relationships, it's my pride, it's uh my abilities or lack thereof.
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I mean, there are times, I mean, we've discussed this offline.
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I'm on the sl I'm probably the slowest runner in my running group.
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No, I know I am, and it bothers me because I do try, I do show up, I do give the effort, I do, but there's been no huge change.
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Like I'm not gaining, you know, a lot of speed.
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And I think he loves that.
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He loves that it bothers me.
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Because what is that, what is underneath of that is what you're getting it to.
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Right, is my pride.
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Yeah, exactly.
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It's pride, and that's just it.
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He he wants you to lose that pride and be joyful where you're at.
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And I can tell you, I I struggle with that.
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I'm a people pleaser extraordinaire, Jeannie.
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You know that.
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I love people pleasing, and so often I appeal to the wrong authority.
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I mean, you've known me for a long time, and you know how I've been with leadership and my deep abiding trust sometimes, where it might not have been appropriately placed, because I was on my journey and I hadn't quite gotten there, and I was putting a lot of trust in a lot of earthly stuff, and you saw the falls, and and that fear around it repeating is a lack of trust in God and a pride that I can make it not happen again.
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And so there is a very relatable behavior in that that I see too, because my pride is what keeps me thinking I can't back to the old leaning on our own understandings.
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That is uh that is a huge tent pole in my my faith process because yeah, I I often find that moment where I'm like, why am I so in the weeds?
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It's it feels like I'm hacking a new path with a machete through the jungle.
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And I'm like, whose whose understanding am I leaning on?
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I am blazing my own trail.
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That's not God makes a way.
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So if I were on God's path, I would be walking down a path because God already made the way.
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I should put the machete down and backtrack to where I lost the plot.
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And that's the key.
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You just hit the nail, is in those circumstances, we have lost the plot.
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We have definitely lost the plot.
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I'll even take it a step further.
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Last night I was, you know, processing some things with God for our audience.
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I tend to write my prayers out.
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It's it's a very cathartic and a very intimate way that I spend time with God.
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And so I was writing last night and I was reminded of that scripture.
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I want to say it's Roman in Romans chapter seven, where Paul says, and I love Paul because of his unabasque humility in that he says basically, why do I do what I don't want to do and yet not do what I want to do?
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That is me in a nutshell.
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I know what to do and still do something else, or do something that deflects from that.
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And I think there's Satan someday is just flicking me.
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Look at that, look at that, look at that.
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And again, he's the great accuser.
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So whenever there's accusatory language that I'm hearing in my head, I know that it's not from God.
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See, and I have a I I'm sure you can relate to this, Gina.
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We all have some relationship, familial person who challenges us to go and and I have that relationship, and it's currently kind of bubbling.
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And my parents last night and I had a conversation where they asked me to step into some some faith on it and and initiate a conversation with this person to try to clear it up.
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And I am going to honor my parents because I think that's a very biblical thing, and also it's something I've been avoiding for all the reasons you're talking about.
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I mean, it's the fear and the pride and all of this.
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I know what has to be done.
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I know the relationship is in the weeds, I know I've lost the plot, I know what I'm supposed to do.
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I don't, I've I'm struggling to bring myself to be okay with doing it and to be who God's telling me to be in this relationship.
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So I very much relate in a very deep way right now because I know what I'm supposed to do.
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And sometimes it's not even that I do something different, I choose nothing over it sometimes.
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I'd rather stand right here and go, no, God, I'm not ready to do that thing.
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I know what I'm supposed to do, but I'm not gonna do it.
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But I won't dishonor you by doing something else.
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But technically I am, because doing nothing is doing something else.
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Sounds a lot like Jonah.
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Yes.
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I think we get like Jonah in those circumstances where we're like, or God tells us, like, let's say your scenario, God tells you, pursuant to Matthew 18, that you need to go to this person directly and talk to them.
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Yeah, but they're not gonna listen, they're not gonna do this, they're not gonna do that.
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That's what I'm doing.
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I'm gonna go jump a ship to you know, somewhere else.
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Uh-huh.
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That's exactly it.
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I know I I know that he won't, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
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Do I know?
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I haven't tried it, and God's telling me to try it.
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So maybe there's more God in his heart than I'm giving him credit for.
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But I'm not willing to.
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Like, it's been a hard thing.
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It we all have those things.
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You know, I I've joked in my life how God has this way.
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It's like jumping out of a plane.
00:10:47.600 --> 00:10:49.360
And you get to that altitude.
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I've never done it, but I I understand the mechanics.
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And that is when it's time to jump, it's time to jump.
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And if you're like a paratrooper in the military, I my understanding is there's two ways it goes.
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You go or you are made to go.
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And I feel like sometimes God works just like that.
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Like, I'm gonna walk you to the door of the plane, I'm gonna turn the light green, and now it's time for you to take the leap.
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And you look at God and you go, no.
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And he goes, Cool, shoves you right out the door.
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Here's a whale.
00:11:18.399 --> 00:11:20.639
Yeah, here's a whale, exactly.
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You don't want to go there?
00:11:22.399 --> 00:11:23.279
Interesting.
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I mean, that's that's so true, but going back to the original question of if I were Satan, how would I trip me up?
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Absolutely, it would be hitting my pride, hitting my pride around specific things, whether it's my abilities, my intelligence.
00:11:48.080 --> 00:11:51.200
Well, the fight with this person is the pride that I'm right.
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So a hundred percent it falls into that.
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It doesn't matter if I'm right, if they're a family member, family is important.
00:11:59.279 --> 00:12:02.399
Forgiveness and grace is given to those you love.
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No one's perfect, and yet my pride has stepped in, and that's that's the devil dancing because it he's separating me from a relationship because I'm leaning on my pride.
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And on understanding, and I'm saying that to myself too.
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So I'm over here like pointing the finger.
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Yeah, so for those watching, this is us coming to stuff in real time.
00:12:30.399 --> 00:12:31.440
Yeah, absolutely.
00:12:31.679 --> 00:12:41.200
This is Adam and I have been friends for at least over a decade, and this is the stuff that usually happens off camera.
00:12:41.600 --> 00:12:43.360
Yeah, we just wanted to share it with everybody.
00:12:43.919 --> 00:12:44.399
It's brilliant.
00:12:44.559 --> 00:12:47.840
Said, why don't you hit record as we have this conversation?
00:12:48.159 --> 00:12:50.399
And so we're sharing it with you.
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Yeah, and and it's it's such an inspiration because your your wisdom and your knowledge brings me forward so much, because that's the other thing.
00:12:58.960 --> 00:13:01.360
I'll I'll I'll bring it back to the subject with this.
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I think for a long time my ignorance was the thing that the devil used too.
00:13:08.879 --> 00:13:13.840
Because I I had a perception of religion and I didn't understand God.
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And because of that understanding of religion, I I was separated from God.
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It I'm not saying people don't have great relationships through the church.
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I just had a personal experience that didn't bring me closer.
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So when I finally put that pride of my own again, leaning on my own understanding, and so you've been key in that and helping me find the right questions to ponder upon, like this, because in that I've gone, wait, this is this is the faith I've been searching for.
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This is the theological depth that I need to understand what God is.
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I mean, I'm never gonna have full understanding, it says it.
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But God also talks to us in ways that are really simple and really straightforward because God knows how thick we are.
00:14:04.240 --> 00:14:11.600
And you help me to help me to start there and grow my faith through that because I'm as thick as any of us come.
00:14:12.559 --> 00:14:14.480
Oh, that makes two of us.
00:14:18.399 --> 00:14:27.279
Pride is a tough thing because it disguises itself in different ways.
00:14:28.240 --> 00:14:31.360
I heard a quote last week, and I hope I get this right.
00:14:34.559 --> 00:14:39.279
Perfection is pride dressed up as high standards.
00:14:45.360 --> 00:14:46.000
Yeah.
00:14:49.519 --> 00:14:59.200
I I you know, I I I think I mentioned it already, but uh, I've been this word hypervigilance has been coming up in my life and something I'm trying to work around.
00:14:59.279 --> 00:15:03.679
And I have these weird habits, and my my my mom called me on one of them last night.
00:15:03.919 --> 00:15:13.200
She's like, I always find it weird that you have to wait till everybody in your house is in bed, and when they're on summer break, that messes with you because they they don't have to get up, so they stay up later.
00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:26.559
But I have this weird belief that I have to do a perimeter check at the end of the night once everybody's ready in their bedroom and in bed, because I'm making sure everything's safe, as if I'm the provider of safety for my home.
00:15:26.720 --> 00:15:39.360
And the delusion and pride that comes with this idea, like it's it's to the point where if I don't like if I wake up on the couch at one in the morning, I still have to do it before I can go up to bed.
00:15:39.840 --> 00:15:41.279
I've already been asleep.
00:15:41.440 --> 00:15:45.759
There's no real purpose for it, and I'm not the provider of safety, God is.
00:15:46.399 --> 00:15:52.720
But I have definitely put myself in a place where I'm like, without this protection, my family is at risk.
00:15:52.879 --> 00:15:57.120
Instead of just saying, God protect us tonight, and always.
00:15:57.440 --> 00:16:00.000
So, what fear do you think is driving this?
00:16:02.559 --> 00:16:14.879
So I grew up as a kid who I had ADHD, but my parents believed in helping me overcome it with process, and I'm very thankful for that.
00:16:15.200 --> 00:16:19.919
But I learned this belief that my process makes sure things get done right.
00:16:20.080 --> 00:16:27.759
If I follow my process, I will not mess up, which is a fair standard to set as a kid who needs to be organized.
00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:30.399
But I've overcorrected for the problem.
00:16:30.559 --> 00:16:35.200
Instead of just having it be my process keeps me on track.
00:16:35.519 --> 00:16:43.360
My I've convinced myself that my process will create perfection and safety and stability and nothing will break.
00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:50.320
And if I just do my process right, and every time something goes wrong, it's probably because I missed something in my process.
00:16:51.279 --> 00:17:09.039
So it's it's a behavior that was healthy that I've overcorrected for in adulthood, and now I'm having to bring it back to a healthy place because it started out in a healthy place, but my pride got wrapped up in it.
00:17:09.279 --> 00:17:14.160
And I think again to your question, this is a place where the devil said, Ooh, weakness.
00:17:14.480 --> 00:17:20.079
I can turn a process into an obsession that is tied to fear.
00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:31.440
And instead of just having it be things that keep me on track, now it's almost like OCD rituals that if I don't do, I feel like I can't rest.
00:17:38.240 --> 00:17:38.960
That's a lot.
00:17:39.440 --> 00:17:44.799
It's a story I tell myself, and it's it may and hypervigilance is exhausting.
00:17:45.920 --> 00:17:53.759
So stepping back from that is stepping back from a place of anticipated chaos into a place of God's peace.
00:17:56.400 --> 00:18:02.799
And at the same time, I think my son's blessing and curse of going through cancer the way he did.
00:18:02.880 --> 00:18:07.279
It taught me that as long as nobody's trying to die, it's a good day.
00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:10.000
So I'm a lot more peaceful in a lot of ways.
00:18:10.240 --> 00:18:23.759
And at the same time, it brought on some of these process-driven things because I started really stepping up the I got to make sure this is good with Joel, and I got to take care of this, and I got to take care of that, because his life's in the balance.
00:18:23.839 --> 00:18:30.720
And if I don't do my part to support my son through his recovery, then something bad could happen.
00:18:31.039 --> 00:18:50.240
So there's there's some unprocessed trauma inside of that still, because what I learned was good, but there were some behaviors that I've only recently realized that that experience also turned into some bad habits and bad behaviors that are separating me from God more than I realized.
00:18:50.400 --> 00:18:58.960
Because it's not just what would it look like to end my my night with just simply saying, I'm safe because I'm in your arms, God.
00:18:59.119 --> 00:19:00.240
Good night.
00:19:04.640 --> 00:19:06.559
So every day a little closer.
00:19:08.559 --> 00:19:10.160
I mean, it's I understand.
00:19:10.319 --> 00:19:15.519
I mean, I'm hyper-vigilant in different ways, but it's the same.
00:19:15.759 --> 00:19:22.240
And I find myself in situations where if I don't do it, it doesn't get done, kind of mentality.
00:19:23.119 --> 00:19:27.119
And not just, you know, at home, but also in my professional life too.
00:19:27.359 --> 00:19:42.720
Those types of things where whether it's networking, whether it's leads groups, you and I are both involved in multiple and run multiple leads groups, and that thought process comes very often.
00:19:43.359 --> 00:19:57.519
Or sometimes it comes to me faster, and I think you're the same way, and so I see the need before others do, or maybe I'm thinking it's a bigger one than it actually is, which is probably closer to reality.
00:19:57.680 --> 00:20:08.319
But in that moment, my thought is we have to do this, and if we don't do this, this is bad.
00:20:09.039 --> 00:20:11.279
If it's going to be, it's up to me.
00:20:11.519 --> 00:20:16.000
I have said that phrase so much, you could stitch it on a pillow at my house.
00:20:16.480 --> 00:20:20.240
But again, I still think that's a form of pride.
00:20:20.480 --> 00:20:20.960
It is.
00:20:21.200 --> 00:20:21.680
I agree.
00:20:22.079 --> 00:20:24.640
Yeah, I'll handle it, I'll handle it.
00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:34.480
I'm gonna sit back and lean on my own understanding because I'm the one with all the answers, and all of y'all are not, which is such a prideful response.
00:20:34.720 --> 00:20:37.680
That is pride, pride, pride, pride, pride all over the place.
00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:38.720
Oh, yeah.
00:20:38.960 --> 00:20:43.200
Well, and a mutual friend of ours, Shane, gives me a hard time for this.
00:20:43.519 --> 00:20:46.400
He's like, if it's going to be, it's up to he.
00:20:46.559 --> 00:20:47.920
Try practicing that one.
00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:49.599
I was like, Oh, that's a good pivot.
00:20:49.759 --> 00:20:51.440
Yes, a really good pivot.
00:20:51.680 --> 00:20:59.759
Like, it sounds enough the same that I might be able to get my brain to embrace it because it's not my heart that has the problem, it's my brain.
00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:04.720
My brain is is the I'm gonna get that thing done engine.
00:21:04.880 --> 00:21:14.640
And I mean, even like it is such an active process for me to say, I'm gonna pray before this meeting, I'm gonna pray about this meeting.
00:21:14.880 --> 00:21:18.799
Like, I my brain is just next thing, next thing, next thing, engine.
00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:20.480
And I think you're the same way, Gina.
00:21:20.640 --> 00:21:34.799
So the active process of just saying, I'm gonna pray for God's guidance over this meeting, that act has been a habit that has taken me effort to develop because it's not natural for my brain to pause and ponder.
00:21:34.960 --> 00:21:38.319
It it finds answers too quickly to need to do that.
00:21:38.480 --> 00:21:45.920
And blessing, but pride's curse right there, too, of because I can, I don't ask God.
00:21:46.000 --> 00:21:51.839
I just go again with my own understanding because my pride says that fast brain is spot on.
00:21:52.799 --> 00:21:53.920
And I agree.
00:21:54.079 --> 00:22:03.920
I mean, I think part of it now I was raised Protestant, I'm still Protestant, but in Because I hear this what I'm about to say a lot from Catholics.
00:22:06.559 --> 00:22:12.000
And I don't like to bother God with the little things.
00:22:14.880 --> 00:22:22.400
He's handling running the universe, making sure a lot of us don't die from stupid choices, all those things.
00:22:25.359 --> 00:22:29.200
So I don't like to bother him with the little things.
00:22:30.160 --> 00:22:34.240
And that's the wrestle that I have constantly of.
00:22:34.480 --> 00:22:36.000
And it's gotten better.
00:22:36.160 --> 00:22:49.039
I love that you and I had a conversation a while back, and you said that you were starting to pray over proposals before you deliver them to potential clients, which I thought was genius.
00:22:49.359 --> 00:22:54.079
And such a faith-based approach.
00:22:54.240 --> 00:22:58.319
Talk about bringing God to work, having God at work.
00:22:58.480 --> 00:23:01.200
That's that's a perfect example of it.
00:23:01.519 --> 00:23:06.400
And it got me to thinking more about okay, God, show me what I'm not bringing to you.
00:23:07.519 --> 00:23:08.960
It was a lot.
00:23:29.920 --> 00:23:30.240
Okay.
00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:33.200
Okay, I'm sorry, I'll do better.
00:23:34.640 --> 00:23:42.559
Kind of like when you want a specific color car, like I want to buy a red car, and then everywhere you go, you start noticing red cars.
00:23:42.799 --> 00:23:44.240
It's kind of like that.
00:23:45.680 --> 00:23:47.119
I just met with this person.
00:23:47.200 --> 00:23:51.200
I just did a one-on-one with this person, and I didn't pray before I did it.
00:23:51.440 --> 00:23:52.640
Oh, I totally.
00:23:52.799 --> 00:24:03.519
And I do that that process is still in that phase for me where I do, I catch myself where I'm like, I was too fast today, and I had two meetings that I never prayed over.
00:24:03.680 --> 00:24:04.640
I just did.
00:24:05.519 --> 00:24:08.960
And I try to, you know, go back and you know, it's like a kid.
00:24:09.119 --> 00:24:14.079
So there's something I I kind of I think I pray like a child sometimes.
00:24:14.480 --> 00:24:30.079
Because it's like, God, I didn't pray over this thing and my homework's late, but I'm gonna pray now over it and ask you to forgive me for not praying over it as a part of it and make whatever happened in that meeting still be have have been your will, even though I didn't ask in advance.
00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:32.160
Homework in late.
00:24:32.559 --> 00:24:36.880
Okay, first of all, I've done that prayer more often than I'm willing to admit.
00:24:37.359 --> 00:24:43.039
Kind of a not a preemptive, but a post-emptive, I guess would be the word.
00:24:43.279 --> 00:24:46.400
Okay, God, do you know what I just did in there and I didn't ask for your help?
00:24:46.640 --> 00:24:49.039
Could you help me go make it go well?
00:24:49.359 --> 00:24:50.160
Absolutely.
00:24:50.480 --> 00:24:55.039
So I don't want to give you the impression that I'm sitting over here high on my ivory tower.
00:24:55.279 --> 00:24:57.200
I do that myself.
00:24:58.880 --> 00:25:18.319
But the other thing is that making him that priority, you know, the third the first part of the verse that we keep the verses we keep talking about, Proverbs 3, 5, and 6 is acknowledge the Lord in all your ways and lean not in your own understanding.
00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:20.400
Yeah.
00:25:20.640 --> 00:25:24.240
In all your ways, acknowledge him, and he will make your path straight.
00:25:28.400 --> 00:25:29.279
That's hard.
00:25:29.359 --> 00:25:32.480
That's just hard all over the place.
00:25:37.119 --> 00:25:39.359
I don't I have my doubts.
00:25:39.519 --> 00:25:44.000
They can have that conversation with God as far as the reality of that statement.
00:25:44.240 --> 00:25:53.200
But I can tell you, as someone who has been a Christian for decades and decades, I still struggle with that.
00:25:54.559 --> 00:25:59.440
I still struggle with letting go.
00:25:59.680 --> 00:26:08.799
I mean, one of our friends, one of our mutual friends, told me that he made his word of the year sacrifice.
00:26:10.880 --> 00:26:12.880
And it just blew my mind.
00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:17.119
Meaning, or I'm sorry, not sacrifice, surrender.
00:26:17.359 --> 00:26:18.799
Surrender, yeah.
00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:27.599
And so being able to just hold your hand up and give it to God, that's hard.
00:26:28.000 --> 00:26:29.599
Hard as heck.
00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:33.680
So it took me most of the first half of the year to figure out my word.
00:26:34.480 --> 00:26:34.799
Okay.
00:26:35.279 --> 00:26:44.640
And it's interesting because now that I've gotten through the first half of the year and kind of looked back, I realize it it's a really simple word.
00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:47.440
And it's the first half of everything he's asking.
00:26:47.599 --> 00:26:49.839
He's asking the word is B.
00:26:51.119 --> 00:26:54.480
Be with me, be at peace, be present.
00:26:54.720 --> 00:26:58.400
There's a lot of that that has come through in my word for the year.
00:26:58.480 --> 00:27:02.160
So be is my word, and I'm finding it just as hard.
00:27:02.400 --> 00:27:06.960
Like, surrender's a step further, and just being is so dang hard.
00:27:07.039 --> 00:27:12.480
So surrender right now feels like crossing the Rubicon because I'm just working on being.
00:27:12.720 --> 00:27:15.440
If I can be, maybe I can surrender next.
00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:29.519
But when he said that, that's part of what helped me land on B was like, I'm not at surrender, but I think I'm just trying to like sit with God, be with God, be present with others, be aware of what God wants me to do.
00:27:29.759 --> 00:27:32.799
So this word be keeps coming up.
00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:36.960
But surrender, holy Lord, that sounds hard.
00:27:37.839 --> 00:27:39.440
And I absolutely love that.
00:27:39.519 --> 00:27:41.279
That's actually a great word.
00:27:44.319 --> 00:27:59.599
I mine for this year is stewardship or steward taking care of what God has entrusted to me, which I have stumbled and stumbled and stumbled and stumbled time and time again with that.
00:27:59.680 --> 00:28:02.319
But part of that is stewarding relationships.
00:28:02.559 --> 00:28:09.200
And relationships, especially the special ones, require you to be present.
00:28:09.359 --> 00:28:15.039
And I've been guilty, whether I'm typing something while someone's trying to tell me something.
00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:17.680
That's not being present.
00:28:18.319 --> 00:28:20.880
That's not stopping what you're doing and listening.
00:28:22.559 --> 00:28:26.799
And this online world is so easy to be distracted.
00:28:27.359 --> 00:28:28.400
You're right.
00:28:29.680 --> 00:28:30.640
Exactly.
00:28:31.119 --> 00:28:32.960
Have you read Theo of Golden?
00:28:33.039 --> 00:28:34.880
Have you heard of the book Theo of Golden?
00:28:35.119 --> 00:28:35.680
I've heard of it.
00:28:35.759 --> 00:28:36.960
I haven't read it.
00:28:39.279 --> 00:28:47.359
So a brief synopsis of it is this older gentleman, he's in his 80s, named Theo, if you hadn't figured that out.
00:28:47.680 --> 00:28:50.160
Shows up in this small town in Georgia called Golden.
00:28:50.240 --> 00:28:54.240
It is not based on our town, our city here called Golden.
00:28:54.400 --> 00:29:03.440
And he finds this, I believe it's a coffee shop, but it also has all these sketches of people in town.
00:29:05.039 --> 00:29:15.920
And he starts buying them and he tracks down the people who are the subject of the sketch, and he just hears their story.
00:29:17.039 --> 00:29:18.960
And these stories are powerful.
00:29:19.119 --> 00:29:26.960
There are ones who are really, really great, and there's some that are like, wow, I can't believe you're still here.
00:29:28.559 --> 00:29:30.319
I mean, just amazing, powerful.
00:29:30.400 --> 00:29:36.240
But my takeaway from this entire book, and anyone watching, go read it.
00:29:36.319 --> 00:29:37.200
It's fantastic.
00:29:37.359 --> 00:29:48.240
Is the art of audibling it right now and being present with that person that you're with, kind of like what we're doing right now.
00:29:49.599 --> 00:29:52.079
Yeah, I definitely want to find that book.
00:29:52.160 --> 00:29:57.200
I just put it on my uh audible list because that kind of inspiration.
00:29:58.640 --> 00:30:00.559
I also need some of that.
00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:08.720
But it's something because, like we spoke of earlier, I'm thinking of the next thing.
00:30:09.039 --> 00:30:15.759
I missed out on some great connections because of that.
00:30:16.960 --> 00:30:21.519
Well, and and you know, it's it's interesting as my kids are reaching adulthood.
00:30:21.599 --> 00:30:26.640
I'm I'm at a weird crossroads, and I guess it's probably what they call the midlife crisis.
00:30:26.799 --> 00:30:37.839
It doesn't feel very crisis-y to me, it's more kind of looking forward at what my my next chapter looks like and looking back a little bit at the legacy that my kids already represent.
00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:53.119
And when I think about what I want out of the next chapter, when you talk about that, like if I uh if if I end up at the gates with the well done, my good and faithful son, I want people down here to be like, he listened, he cared, he poured into us.
00:30:53.279 --> 00:30:57.759
These that it the earthly legacy, I think it matters to me.
00:30:57.839 --> 00:31:12.480
I I think most people have a certain amount of that that they care about, that they want to leave a trail of good works and kind words, so that when they leave this earth, people honor you in a kind way.
00:31:13.039 --> 00:31:14.880
Your life had meaning to them.
00:31:15.039 --> 00:31:17.039
And so I think about that a little bit more.
00:31:17.119 --> 00:31:30.640
And someone like that who invests is a great model as well for me because I want to do, I don't want to do it performatively, I want to live a life that lends myself to ending up in that place just naturally.
00:31:31.200 --> 00:31:38.880
So while being mindful, I think those kind of stories of inspiration are a great guidepost, too, of like somebody lived this.
00:31:39.039 --> 00:31:53.200
This isn't just a story, this is a lived experience, and it can be yours if you make the same choices, which is I think a beautiful way for God to tell us that like there is a path to do exactly what you want and honor me.
00:31:53.359 --> 00:31:54.799
Let me show you it.
00:31:56.559 --> 00:32:13.920
I would agree with that, and I think a few years ago, I wrote a marketing plan for our business with the example of Jesus in mind.
00:32:15.039 --> 00:32:17.200
What did Jesus do in his ministry?
00:32:17.519 --> 00:32:20.559
Well, number one, he listened to people.
00:32:22.240 --> 00:32:25.279
In fact, he listened more than he talked.
00:32:26.160 --> 00:32:33.920
He asked good questions, he never left people the same as he found them.
00:32:37.119 --> 00:32:52.559
He taught people referring back to the Bible, he always pointed to his father, and I wrote, I took those things and wrote a marketing plan based on that.
00:32:52.880 --> 00:33:01.519
Now, with that said, I am lacking on my social media stuff, so sorry, audience, but yes, focusing on that.
00:33:01.759 --> 00:33:06.000
Is it perfect as far as do we hit our goals?
00:33:06.240 --> 00:33:07.440
Absolutely not.
00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:20.079
I mean, we stumble, we get busy, we forget, we didn't take it to God, all of those things, and and yet I take such great peace.
00:33:20.319 --> 00:33:27.839
David's my favorite, because David being God's favorite gives me so much hope.
00:33:28.079 --> 00:33:32.240
Like the center of it to me is just keep trying.
00:33:32.400 --> 00:33:35.759
It's not about the perfection, it's about the intention.
00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:38.720
When he was in the depths, he talked to God.
00:33:38.880 --> 00:33:41.039
When he was in the heights, he talked to God.
00:33:41.279 --> 00:33:44.880
When he was in the slow parts in between, he talked to God.
00:33:46.559 --> 00:33:49.119
It it seems the same kind of thing in this case.
00:33:49.279 --> 00:33:52.960
You built a plan so the business is always focused on God.
00:33:53.039 --> 00:33:53.920
It's not perfect.
00:33:54.000 --> 00:33:57.920
There are some times you're doing greater at that and lesser at that.
00:33:58.160 --> 00:34:01.599
But the intention behind it brings God's favor.
00:34:03.759 --> 00:34:07.359
And that's my that is my ultimate goal.
00:34:08.159 --> 00:34:14.320
But I'm still working on the execution piece of what does that look like in a practical terms.
00:34:15.119 --> 00:34:17.840
As we all right.
00:34:18.239 --> 00:34:23.599
And speaking of David, our church is going through the psalms during the summer.
00:34:23.679 --> 00:34:34.800
And yesterday's psalm was Psalm 51, which is the one that he wrote after all the mess with Bathsheba and having Uriah killed and stuff.
00:34:36.559 --> 00:34:53.039
And it refers to, I believe it's 2 Samuel chapter 11, where it talks about how this all started was basically it was spring, and it was time when the kings went out to war with their army.
00:34:53.760 --> 00:34:56.000
But David stayed in Jerusalem.
00:34:57.199 --> 00:35:02.719
And so I kind of sat on that verse for the last 24 hours.
00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:08.559
Uh would it be fair to say in that moment that David chose comfort?
00:35:08.800 --> 00:35:14.400
Because I'm trying to figure out why didn't David go out with his army?
00:35:15.519 --> 00:35:18.159
It's kind of what kings did at the time.
00:35:18.400 --> 00:35:21.039
They led their armies into battle.
00:35:21.519 --> 00:35:23.599
Was he choosing comfort?
00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:38.960
There's a part of me that also says, like, he was his presence might not have brought God's favor to the army because of where he was, and he stayed behind and groveled for God's mercy a lot in that, too.
00:35:39.760 --> 00:35:41.760
Well, because of choices that he made.
00:35:42.079 --> 00:35:42.800
Exactly.
00:35:43.119 --> 00:35:57.199
But if he he had been, if he hadn't done that and had been present with his army, perhaps God's favor wouldn't have been on them because his presence was not in a favorable place at the time.
00:35:57.440 --> 00:36:03.840
So there's that side of it that I've always wondered too of like, did he have because he would want to be with his army.
00:36:04.800 --> 00:36:07.360
So it's almost like a punishment, too.
00:36:07.519 --> 00:36:13.199
Like you have to stay behind and let me be in charge while you get right with me.
00:36:17.679 --> 00:36:22.559
I got the impression that he decided not to go.
00:36:23.199 --> 00:36:24.159
That was clear.
00:36:24.559 --> 00:36:33.840
But to bring it home to a point that you just made, but for that choice, we wouldn't have had King Solomon.
00:36:37.360 --> 00:36:39.440
Because Bathsheba was his mother.
00:36:39.920 --> 00:36:40.559
Yeah.
00:36:46.000 --> 00:36:52.480
But I've been kind of sitting there saying in that moment was David choosing comfort.
00:36:52.639 --> 00:36:59.199
And if that's the case, how many times have I chose comfort over what God wanted me to do?
00:37:02.239 --> 00:37:03.679
Because comfort's easy.
00:37:03.920 --> 00:37:04.800
Comfort's really easy.
00:37:04.960 --> 00:37:09.199
It requires, you know, most of the time in action.
00:37:10.400 --> 00:37:13.920
And that's back to that shoving out of the door of the plane.
00:37:14.000 --> 00:37:17.840
I think that's the inside the plane is safe.
00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:19.119
You're not falling.
00:37:19.199 --> 00:37:21.280
You're there's a comfort to that.
00:37:21.519 --> 00:37:28.079
And I do think that God comes to a point where Jonah, you're comfortable on land, great.
00:37:28.320 --> 00:37:29.679
That's not where you're supposed to be.
00:37:29.840 --> 00:37:31.760
And either you're gonna go or you're gonna go.
00:37:32.000 --> 00:37:33.599
Same, same, but different.
00:37:33.920 --> 00:37:44.719
And what I like about the story of Jonah is when God says, I need you to go to Nineveh and preach to them because I want, you know, I'm gonna destroy them.
00:37:45.119 --> 00:37:47.519
And Jonah's like, No, you're not.
00:37:47.920 --> 00:37:50.159
I'm gonna go there, I'm gonna preach.
00:37:50.400 --> 00:37:55.440
They're gonna say, you know, we're so sorry, God forgive us, and then you're not gonna do anything.
00:37:55.599 --> 00:37:59.519
And that's kind of what happened ultimately.
00:38:00.880 --> 00:38:04.000
But that shows God's mercy in that moment.
00:38:06.320 --> 00:38:09.599
But he needed him to go and do that.
00:38:10.159 --> 00:38:13.280
He needed to be the catalyst to start that going.
00:38:13.599 --> 00:38:14.239
Yeah.
00:38:14.559 --> 00:38:19.760
Because without him, he would have had to destroy them without the preaching and the redemption.
00:38:21.599 --> 00:38:22.079
Yeah.
00:38:22.320 --> 00:38:23.760
But yeah, I could see Jonah.
00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:24.880
No, you're not.
00:38:25.199 --> 00:38:25.840
Yeah.
00:38:26.079 --> 00:38:28.800
Well, and and we're back to pride again.
00:38:30.239 --> 00:38:38.239
And at the same time, it's fun when God lets us be right, but it wasn't because we were right, it was because God made sure we saw his plan.
00:38:38.559 --> 00:38:54.320
It's one of the few times you get a clearer view, and some so often our pride confuses that with our knowledge, our discernment, when really it's just that God allowed us to see the end game better than he had in other things.
00:38:57.679 --> 00:39:01.599
You know, your use of the word allowed there made me think of something else.
00:39:01.760 --> 00:39:05.039
We're both parents, and we have adult children.
00:39:07.920 --> 00:39:16.320
One of the hardest things I think as a parent is to allow your child to stumble so that they can learn from an experience.
00:39:19.039 --> 00:39:23.280
Imagine what God must go through.
00:39:25.360 --> 00:39:36.719
And how hard it must be for him to allow us to go through certain things when we know, and he knows he could just and make it go away.
00:39:37.199 --> 00:39:37.760
Yeah.
00:39:39.440 --> 00:39:45.840
That is that is hard for the kid thing at a deep, deep level.
00:39:46.159 --> 00:40:05.679
And the flip side of that for the rest of the world and for God's view is something I've it's one of the reasons I struggled because I came to God through history and politics and government, kind of to a degree, and the legalistic side of religion and things like that.
00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:14.400
So one of the things that I've always struggled with is this how can we be so horrible to one another?
00:40:14.639 --> 00:40:25.199
And like, I'll be honest, one of the phrases I've said that I'm not completely proud of is I bet God regrets giving us free will, because boy, have we done bad things with that.
00:40:25.440 --> 00:40:37.840
If he could just keep us on the straight and narrow without our stupid free will, we would be great, but our free will allows us to be awful to one another, and how hard must that be for the father to watch.
00:40:39.119 --> 00:40:42.400
But we would be his puppets if we didn't have free will.
00:40:42.719 --> 00:40:43.280
Exactly.
00:40:43.440 --> 00:40:44.880
And that's not what he wanted.
00:40:45.039 --> 00:40:51.360
And so this idea that he regrets it is foolish of me to think and is arrogant of me to think.
00:40:51.599 --> 00:41:18.079
And at the same time, what I'm not really leaning into there is how much it must hurt the father how we dishonor him and how we stumble, and how we I mean, unfortunately, we live in a wor in a country, and I don't know if it's the world, but I know it's our country that non is the largest growing faith com uh sector, and and God certainly cries over that.
00:41:21.840 --> 00:41:29.840
And I can imagine too, he is at the choices we make and the choices we don't make.
00:41:31.119 --> 00:41:38.320
But at the same time, his ways are not our ways, his thoughts are not our thoughts.
00:41:39.360 --> 00:41:41.440
And so we don't know.
00:41:42.159 --> 00:41:44.559
I mean, back to the David example.
00:41:44.719 --> 00:41:51.360
David didn't go off with the king, what kings normally do, and go off to war with his troops, he stayed home.
00:41:51.679 --> 00:42:01.920
He walks out on the patio and he sees a lady being bathed over on the roof over there, and he's like, Hey, I like her, send her to me.
00:42:02.239 --> 00:42:11.440
Even though he had multiple wives, it's not like and concubines, it's not like he didn't have access, I'll put it that way.
00:42:11.760 --> 00:42:13.440
And he sends her over.
00:42:13.760 --> 00:42:20.239
There's an argument as to whether she felt compelled to come or she came of her own volition.
00:42:20.400 --> 00:42:28.079
I tend to think she probably couldn't have told him no, because he's the king, or felt that she couldn't have told him no.
00:42:30.159 --> 00:42:36.800
They do their business, she comes back a month later and says, Um, I'm pregnant.
00:42:38.639 --> 00:42:59.440
And he tries to lean on his own understanding and brings her husband Uriah home from the battles and tries to get him to go home to spend time with his wife, and he refuses to because Uriah actually has a moral compass, and he understands I can't do that.
00:42:59.679 --> 00:43:22.639
I'll I'll sleep in the floor of your house, your castle, your temple, but I'm not gonna go home because there are still men out there fighting, and so David's best solution was okay, since we can't do it that way, because I gotta cover this up because I messed up because of the choices I've made.
00:43:23.440 --> 00:43:24.960
Hey, Joab, come here.
00:43:25.119 --> 00:43:36.159
All right, when you guys go out to battle, attack them from the front, make sure you rise in the front and then pull back, let him be killed.
00:43:38.079 --> 00:43:40.159
And that's exactly what happens.
00:43:40.320 --> 00:43:46.639
And Joab comes back and he's like, you know, we've lost the battle, and David goes off on him.
00:43:47.679 --> 00:43:54.880
I can't believe he did this, and just goes off on him, and Joab goes, and Uriah's dead.
00:43:55.280 --> 00:43:58.320
And I could see David in that moment going.
00:44:00.719 --> 00:44:13.199
Like, just stop talking because Joab's given him that look like, don't talk to me like we both don't know what happened, what you caused to happen.
00:44:14.239 --> 00:44:34.000
And then Nathan the prophet comes in and tells this wonderful story about this guy who this rich ruler who had a bunch of sheep, and he invites this guy to dinner who has one, and he wants that guy's sheep to be prepared for the dinner, even though he had all these sheep.
00:44:34.880 --> 00:44:38.960
And David gets indignant and says, Well, that guy should die.
00:44:39.920 --> 00:44:41.280
How selfish can you be?
00:44:41.440 --> 00:44:45.840
And Nathan goes, That guy is you.
00:44:58.639 --> 00:44:59.280
Yeah.
00:45:01.039 --> 00:45:02.000
Thank you.
00:45:03.360 --> 00:45:10.239
I mean, that yeah, I think about that story a lot because we all make dumb choices.
00:45:10.559 --> 00:45:12.239
I make a lot of them.
00:45:12.480 --> 00:45:13.119
Yeah.
00:45:13.920 --> 00:45:22.639
No, God doesn't waste a thing, but that was definitely having to make uh a beautiful thing out of a pile of stink.
00:45:23.519 --> 00:45:30.880
So then Beth Sheep, you know, he marries Beth Sheba because we gotta, you know, right, we gotta sanctify this thing, legalize it.
00:45:31.679 --> 00:45:33.440
And of course, that baby dies.
00:45:33.920 --> 00:45:35.760
It's sad, but that baby dies.
00:45:36.079 --> 00:45:40.559
But through that relationship, through that marriage is where we got solid.
00:45:42.800 --> 00:45:49.760
And so, kind of like what you said, we don't, I don't presume to know the mind of God.
00:45:52.639 --> 00:45:56.480
But at the same time, it's like I wouldn't have seen that coming.
00:45:56.960 --> 00:45:57.280
No.
00:45:59.760 --> 00:46:00.239
Yeah.
00:46:00.960 --> 00:46:07.599
And God knew that was gonna happen when He had when He had Samuel anoint David as king.
00:46:11.039 --> 00:46:12.960
And he was a kid at the time.
00:46:13.280 --> 00:46:13.920
Yeah.
00:46:14.320 --> 00:46:15.679
You know, like a teenager.
00:46:15.760 --> 00:46:22.000
He wasn't, he had to wait for years whilst Saul stopped trying to kill him.
00:46:22.960 --> 00:46:25.599
I mean, God plays the ultimate long game.
00:46:26.559 --> 00:46:27.920
Yes, yes.
00:46:28.239 --> 00:46:29.599
Amen to that.
00:46:34.320 --> 00:46:38.800
So back to my original question.
00:46:38.960 --> 00:46:40.239
You're Satan.
00:46:42.239 --> 00:46:43.840
Where would you hit Adam?
00:46:52.239 --> 00:46:54.239
I think we land at pride.
00:46:57.440 --> 00:47:00.480
And all of the tentacles of that monster.
00:47:06.800 --> 00:47:07.920
Amen to that.
00:47:08.159 --> 00:47:08.480
Amen.
00:47:08.960 --> 00:47:11.519
And I would have to say the same for me too.
00:47:15.039 --> 00:47:19.280
Because even my fear is based in a pride that I can control things.
00:47:21.599 --> 00:47:23.360
Oh, you like to control things?
00:47:23.519 --> 00:47:24.800
I never have a problem with that.
00:47:24.960 --> 00:47:27.280
I am just go with the flow.
00:47:29.440 --> 00:47:30.639
Sure, whatever.
00:47:30.960 --> 00:47:37.760
I have a friend who uh her her response to go with the flow is hilarious because she's not a go with the flow person.
00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:38.400
Great.
00:47:38.559 --> 00:47:40.960
Can you define what time the flow will start?
00:47:41.199 --> 00:47:43.280
Can you define the direction of the flow?
00:47:43.519 --> 00:47:45.679
How will how fast will the flow be?
00:47:45.840 --> 00:47:48.320
And when will the flow have exits available?
00:47:48.559 --> 00:47:50.559
Yeah, that yes.
00:47:50.800 --> 00:47:54.320
That's not going with the flow, but that's the flow I go with.
00:47:54.480 --> 00:47:56.480
Let's define and control that flow.
00:47:56.639 --> 00:47:58.800
Let's choke a river straight.
00:48:03.920 --> 00:48:08.239
Well, we have had a deep, deep discussion.
00:48:08.559 --> 00:48:09.280
Absolutely.
00:48:09.440 --> 00:48:10.159
I've loved this.
00:48:10.320 --> 00:48:10.800
Thank you.
00:48:11.119 --> 00:48:11.920
Me too.
00:48:12.159 --> 00:48:19.760
And to our audience, again, these are kind of the discussions Adam and I normally have, sometimes with our guests off camera.
00:48:20.880 --> 00:48:26.719
And sometimes they have some historical facts tied in there as well.
00:48:27.199 --> 00:48:35.119
But at the end of the day, we love this podcast.
00:48:35.360 --> 00:48:37.280
We love one another.
00:48:37.599 --> 00:48:44.000
We love God and Jesus for what he has done for us.
00:48:44.239 --> 00:48:45.360
Talk about choices.
00:48:45.519 --> 00:48:46.880
We didn't even get into that.
00:48:46.960 --> 00:48:50.320
The choices that Jesus made for us.
00:48:54.880 --> 00:48:57.519
And now we know what we can talk about the next time.
00:48:57.760 --> 00:49:00.239
Yeah, we know what we can talk about the next time.
00:49:00.480 --> 00:49:03.440
So, Adam, would you feel comfortable praying this out?
00:49:03.760 --> 00:49:04.480
Absolutely.
00:49:04.639 --> 00:49:06.320
Thank you for the opportunity.
00:49:07.119 --> 00:49:11.360
Dear Father God, thank you for this blessed time together.
00:49:11.679 --> 00:49:17.760
May these words be anointed by you and reach the ears of those who need to hear them.
00:49:18.000 --> 00:49:28.480
To hear that they're not alone in the fight that they fight, and that the struggle to grow closer to you is one that we relate to and God understands.
00:49:28.960 --> 00:49:39.199
Thank you for Gina and the time she shares with me weekly, and all of the energy and trust she shared with me in leading me closer to you, Father God.
00:49:40.400 --> 00:49:46.079
May this podcast serve you, and may we be blessed to all the ears that hear it.
00:49:46.320 --> 00:49:47.679
In your name we pray.
00:49:48.000 --> 00:49:48.639
Amen.
00:49:49.599 --> 00:49:50.239
Amen.
00:49:53.199 --> 00:49:59.840
This is God at Work, reminding you to lead with faith, serve with purpose, and live out your calling.
00:50:00.079 --> 00:50:04.960
Until we meet again, keep walking boldly in your faith at work and beyond.
00:50:05.039 --> 00:50:09.440
And remember, your business is your ministry.
