When Expertise Meets Motherhood: Speech Tips, Feeding & The Humbling Experience of Having a Child

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Welcome to Getting Grounded, the open and honest conversation
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about the transition of parenthood and everything that comes along with it. The joy,
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the chaos, the fulfillment, the challenge, the identity shifts,
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the relationship changes. Let's talk about it all.
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Dayna is a speech-language pathologist, which was invaluable
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to me as a brand new mom. And we're going to talk about all
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of those skills and the things that she sees and does and how it helped
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and didn't help her as a parent. As you were saying, I have
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been a speech therapist for about 10 years, which is crazy.
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And for a long, long time was working at an outpatient
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pediatric rehabilitation center. Um, really working with like birth
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to teenage years. Um, and I did that for,
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yeah, like 8 years. And I recently switched into an
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elementary school, um, mostly because of,
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you know, being a mom and having to make that work for my family.
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So, you know, I'm sure more to come to chat about all that and all
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the kind of changes and sacrifices you have to make as
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a parent. But so I've been there As a mom,
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really? Yeah, I know, job's exactly the
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same, but here I am with the, you know, um, but so
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I've been there. I started there in September. Um,
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you have so much knowledge about
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children's development and both being like
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where they should be developmentally and how to nurture those skills, and then also
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when they're not there. And so sometimes that can be helpful as a parent,
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cause more anxiety, all the things. And you were beyond being my
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friend that was pregnant 5 months before me, or sorry, had a child 5 months
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before me that, um, also just is a wealth of knowledge in some of
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these things and were like so helpful for so many
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of the things. And then of course we had the experience where you actually fed
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my children and changed my experience in them, which I can't, was again
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invaluable. I'm just grateful you exist. Um,
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but let's talk about all those things. Let's talk about the,
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having your skillset and things you put into practice, what some things that made it
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easier, some things that are a challenge, um, and you know, what can be
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helpful for people? Yes. So, so, um, I mean,
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on the surface, like, sure, it made it a little bit easier to know,
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like, very detailed, like specific milestones
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for speech and language, for feeding, what's normal, what's not normal,
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how to facilitate some of those skills. So in those ways,
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like, yeah, of course, of course that was like, I felt like, oh cool,
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this is gonna be easy that I have this. But on the other
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side, like, like I was saying, like nothing really prepares
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you for the constantness of it and like just the,
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the total shift in your life of becoming a mother or a parent.
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And even in my area of expertise, like I was
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humbled very quickly because I wanted
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to breastfeed. That was like, you know, my plan. And, you know,
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I had— I never got— I don't— I'm not like a CLC. I don't have
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like my, my certification in lactation, but I had, you know, taken some courses
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like professionally, not, not just like the breastfeeding classes for parents,
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which I had also taken. But I was like, yeah, I have— see, I have
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like— no, there's an IBCLC at my work, and I've taken courses related to
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feeding, like That's going to be no problem. I know exactly,
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not worried about it. Well,
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no, so hard. And then like, you know, Sydney was
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having trouble gaining weight and we— her latch was bad.
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I had to use a nipple shield, which I was like— and then I— and
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then in some ways I'm spiraling like, oh no, not the nipple shields. Like,
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that can help, that can reduce milk production. Like, then sometimes I know too much
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where someone else like, okay, I need to use this to help me out a
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little bit, sure. But I'm going like all the way down this path of like
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all these things that it could do negatively. You know, they're like, oh, I think
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she has a posterior tongue tie. I'm like, I don't, the re— the research doesn't
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really support posterior tongue tie. Like, oh, are you just one of
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those? You know, then I start, so it's like, like so
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quickly I'm like, okay, you know, knowing,
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knowing knowledge and then being a mother are
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separate. They're two different things, you know, and, and it's
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not like gonna be a cakewalk just because I know when kids say
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their first words, you know what I mean? So I think that in
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some ways was good for me to be humbled that quickly early on. Like,
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all right, this is not like, you know nothing actually.
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So here you go. Oh, kind of getting thrown into the,
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thrown in, into the fire there. But, um,
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Um, yeah, I think so. I think if there's anything comforting, like, I feel like
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sometimes people think like, well, I don't really know kids and like, I don't work
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with kids and like, you know, thinking it's going to be this horrible thing.
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It's hard for everybody, no matter what, no matter whether you're a pediatrician,
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you know, me have all this experience with kids, like, you're going to get to
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a point of parenthood that is not your expertise. And,
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and, you know, you have to just, you know, try your best.
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Yeah. I think also like my, so my husband's a pediatric dentist and
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I, remember the stories he would have before we
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had kids and then now the stories after and the ways that he can relate
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to parents and the advice he would give before versus after,
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which is the same thing we're talking about with friends too. But I, so I
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think like now as a parent, as a,
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I would want a provider that's a parent because they just
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understand. So it's so different. It's, they can give,
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people can give all the tips about the day-to-day that I should have with my
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kids and like, oh, just do this unless you're a mom or a dad
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who has experienced experienced the struggle of doing just do this.
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It's— yeah, you need to go through like my— the medical record
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and call up some people and be like, I am so sorry I suggested
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X, Y, and Z. I don't know what I was thinking. Yeah, I don't even
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know why you kept seeing me after that. Like, no,
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you know. Yeah, I, I think if anything, it's made me a better therapist.
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Like, the other way, like, it's having kids has made me a better therapist
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than being a therapist making me a better parent.
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Because now, right, like, I, I, I get it. Like, I'm like, oh,
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okay, like, that's— you're— that's not possible, you know what
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I mean? Right. More realistic expectations. Um,
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and just, I mean, I always feel like I had empathy, but even
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more empathy. Like, you know, sometimes you go through a medical record like,
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okay, born at 26 weeks. Oh yeah, I see they had the CPAP and this.
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And now I'm like, you know, I'm so sorry. That must
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have been really hard for you. You know what I mean? Like kind of taking
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the time to be like, wow, could I imagine if that was the
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experience I went through? Right. Um, so I do,
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I do think that in, if anything, it's made me better
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at my job than my job making me a better parent, if that makes sense.
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Yeah. And I do love that sound because there's so many things that you helped
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me with. And to that point, like me, you are probably spiraling in
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an anxious way with your kid, but then with, to be able to give me
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the tips, like it was like with straws or with certain development or
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just, there's so many tips that you gave me and we'll talk about the feeding
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experience itself. But I wonder
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if, like, I luckily
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didn't have to track a lot of the milestones and there, my kids were initially,
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they took a little longer to speak and then all of a sudden we're like
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off with the races and like giving soliloquies all of a sudden. I was like,
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what the fuck? Like you were, we were maybe gonna
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get you checked and now here we are like, You guys know more words than
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the average adult. But, um, which is again a lucky experience.
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But I feel like I didn't— a lot of my friends here
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knew the milestones and would like say certain things, and I'd be like, oh,
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like I intentionally didn't track them because
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I didn't want to be overly anxious. So I— there's—
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it's two sides, right? Like you need to know them. You are way like overly
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familiar with intricate details. And like, is there a
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happy medium? Do you think people— because I— we want to talk about a little
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bit of like parents' intuitions versus provider tips, but where, where do
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you sit there? Where— what's the best case scenario? It's hard. I think it kind
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of depends on like your personality. Like if you think that that is going
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to make you more anxious, then like yeah, maybe I would say kind
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of avoid it. Um, versus, you know,
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if you can kind of like know that information and, and stay calm
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with it and it's gonna kind of help you then go for it.
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Um, I do think your pediatrician's always a good resource,
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but I will say that sometimes I feel like they maybe
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have like a more of a wait-and-see approach longer than I would like.
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Um, because my experience when I was working in outpatient
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is that like I had plenty of times that I would eval a kid and
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be like, oh no, they're doing great. Like, you're, you know, you're fine. Keep practicing
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these things. Maybe we'll schedule a check-in in 6 months, see how they're doing.
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And, you know, it's kind of one of those things like, well,
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now the, the professional in that area has given the okay,
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like that everything's fine. I'd, I'd rather that than be
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like, why did, you know, why didn't you come in 6 months ago type of
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thing? So I think, I think you can kind of use your
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pediatrician, like if they are concerned,
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uh, then that's valid, right? Like, like they're— I'm
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trying to think about like there's kind of like sensitivity screen, right? Like, so if
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like, if they have concerns, then that's valid. But if, if you have concerns
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and they're kind of being like, oh, that's okay, like let's check back,
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you know, if they're not doing it in 6 more months, then we'll refer,
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but you still don't feel like that's the best approach, I would kind of push,
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push on them that. And that would be the time when you'd say like,
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okay, well, I'm still concerned. Is this Um,
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like substantiated, like let, let me look at the milestones and then
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kind of make a decision like, you know what? No, I really do want them
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to be looked at. You know, there also the other issue is that like everywhere
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has a waitlist. So it's like if by the time you get that time of
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like, yeah, you know what? We really are worried. You might still not get in
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for the appointment soon enough. Mm-hmm. For me, that would make me really
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anxious that like my doctor is worried, I'm worried now, I still
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can't get seen for 3 more months. Right, is kind of the inverse of that.
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Yeah. So I think if you can kind of,
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you know, manage your own, like, it's, I think it's helpful to know, I have
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a rough estimate of like knowing the milestones and trying to kind of manage yourself,
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um, about like worry, like not worrying too much about
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it, if that makes sense. Yeah. So I also, especially about
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the like when to refer and when is a good time and what's normal and
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what's not in terms of the milestones, because the milestones are Kind of, I think
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that's why I often dismiss them because they're kind of crazy. Like some of them
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have the widest ranges and some of them are like, miss the
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mark a little bit that like, you're like, oh, at 1 year they should
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be saying this many words. And like my kids weren't, but then a couple months
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later they were doubling that, you know? So sometimes it's child
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specific, which also is easy for me to say because I have this unique
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experience of seeing 2 kids at the exact same time and the vast differences between
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them and This can be good for some people and not good for some people.
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Like we have, I have a very good group of friends here. We all have
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kids that were born within the same few-week gap
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of one another. And so we would be sharing so much with each
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other. And some kids were super ahead in certain areas and some
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were behind in others. And sometimes that's helpful for people. Sometimes it's
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not. For me, one of my kids, my friend's kids, he walked
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at 9 months. We're like walking, walking. And that's insane,
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right? But like, which sucked for her. Like I, you know,
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I'd be like, my God, God, like this kid is so unstable and could just
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be like off to the races because he can walk. And that's where, you know,
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there's like, he's such a physical kid even now. But it didn't worry
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me because my kids did walk at a year. If they hadn't, and I
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had maybe that example of like, well, he's been walking forever.
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I, I don't know. It can be helpful. For, for me, it was helpful because
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I had 2. So seeing all the differences among all of our kids
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was like easy, easier to level set. Like, Well, development is per
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child, but sometimes not, right? Sometimes they actually
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do have. So like, how do you know? How do you determine that? So,
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so some of the milestones are like ranges, right? So a lot of like the
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physical ones are ranges. So, um, and like,
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that's a, that's a perfect example. Like walking, I think, uh, the range is like,
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well, usually it's like 11 months to 15 months. Yeah. He was out.
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Yeah. Right. Yeah. And, um, And it is hard,
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like the CDC a couple years back, like revamped the
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milestones but didn't use the input from like the, like PTs,
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OTs, and speech pathologists. Oh really?
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Yeah. People were very upset like with how they re— they took crawling out,
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which like PTs and OTs were both really like, at least
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the ones I was working with were like, that's crazy. You know, like yes,
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some kids skip crawling, but we don't ever recommend, like if we can avoid
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them skipping crawling, we do because it helps with balance. It helps with, um,
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like developing the, the fine motor muscle of their hands. Like, there's so many benefits
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to crawling that we would never want to, to skip it.
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Or you could be— now I'm talking about an area that's not even my expertise—
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or you could skip crawling because you have some kind of,
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you know, um, uh, motor challenge
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that's, that's now missed, right, into older.
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So anyway, I digress. But, um, well, even that specific child
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I'm talking about, like, I remember she was a little concerned because
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he wasn't crawling. He wanted to skip straight to walking, and our
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kids were crawling. He crawled for one day and then he walked. So like,
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he didn't skip it, which is great, but like, it was like, oh,
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he's not crawling, he's just pulling himself up all the time. It's like, well,
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now he's just walking. Yeah. So, and he's fine, luckily,
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like totally fine, you know. Um, the hard thing too is that like you,
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you stress so much about it in the baby years, and then it's like,
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okay, when these kids are 5, no one's going like I could tell that kid
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started walking at 11 months. This one was 15. You know what I mean?
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Right. It's like, it seems so important at the time and then later it's
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like it all kind of evens out. Um, I will say that the ranges ones,
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like I, like Zoe is like this. She, um,
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Sydney did everything early. She crawled at 6 months. She walked at 11 months,
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like walking well. And Zoe is on the second end of
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the, the, the back end of the range. Like crawling is like 6 to 9
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months. Zoe was like 9 and a half months. Whereas just people are gonna be
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like, all right, I guess maybe I should call, make a PT appointment, and then
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she starts crawling. So now I'm like, she's not walking. She's probably
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gonna start walking at 15 months.
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She'll be just on that later end of the spectrum. So I think with the
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spectrum ones, like just, it's,
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everything is fine if once you get to that end part of the range
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and it's not happening, that's where I would say like, okay, that's maybe worth pursuing.
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That's maybe worth looking into. And then some of the, like the speech milestones.
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The milestones, it is important to know milestones
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aren't when the, when kids do it on the average.
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It's like when, like you should expect, like, you know, 90% of kids
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do this by this age. So it already does kind of factor in that,
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uh, most kids will do it by this time. Does that make sense?
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So that's how it's kind of like, okay, that, that's where we can say,
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cuz if they make it just like, this is when the average kid does it,
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that's, there's so much variation there, then it's It's kind of more meaningless,
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right? Okay. Right. But it is most of, okay. Which one most
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kids do, whatever it is that, that,
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that the milestone is measuring. And so if you want,
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I could kind of very briefly talk on the speech ones if
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that's helpful. Yeah. Well, speech is interesting and I, cuz speech and feeding
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I think are feeding specifically, I feel like cuz
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it's stressful with breastfeeding and it's stressful with the type of eater and like,
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so it starts out stressful and then you get to food And that's
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stressful for totally different reasons. I feel like meals are a source
16:27.469 --> 16:31.365
of stress for so long, even now where
16:31.865 --> 16:35.455
like it's not really all that stressful, but like they like, they think it's
16:35.955 --> 16:38.455
funny to like throw, like they don't, they know not to throw anymore. And now
16:38.503 --> 16:41.535
sometimes they'll like, oh, but we're giving it to Winston. I'm like, but I told
16:42.035 --> 16:45.129
you not to. Right. And then you're like, well, Maddox has a whole, all his
16:45.161 --> 16:48.401
digestive stuff. So it's totally different stressful for that reason.
16:49.492 --> 16:52.898
It's never not, even now, like they're, they eat really well,
16:53.107 --> 16:56.303
but then they like sometimes don't want things and you're like, well, do they need
16:56.803 --> 17:00.544
to be? I feel like meals will be stressful forever, maybe? Like, is that something
17:00.576 --> 17:04.271
that ever isn't? I was working in outpatient when I had a
17:05.235 --> 17:09.010
patient come in that was like delayed in language versus
17:09.510 --> 17:11.307
a patient that came in that was having feeding challenges.
17:12.689 --> 17:16.335
The stress in the room for the feeding challenges was always exponentially
17:16.383 --> 17:19.686
higher. That's where I'm going to have a parent crying. That's where I'm
17:20.186 --> 17:23.211
going to have, you know, like the anxious mom, like, like, you know what I
17:23.711 --> 17:27.602
mean? Because there's just something so innate about like, like, you know,
17:27.698 --> 17:30.903
instinctual about like, I need to make, I need to feed my child. Like my
17:31.403 --> 17:34.557
child needs to be fed. They need to be there. There's nothing more stressful than
17:34.589 --> 17:38.291
that not going well because it feels more like connected to
17:38.820 --> 17:42.249
your, your parenting, your motherhood, like your nurturing aspect than
17:42.666 --> 17:46.192
Like in, in physical skill or language skill. Um,
17:47.182 --> 17:50.712
I don't know. I think it just feels like more ex— you're more exterior.
17:50.856 --> 17:54.142
Like, oh, okay, well, I don't have that much influence over this. And a lot
17:54.642 --> 17:56.466
of times they don't have a lot of influence over the feeding part either.
17:56.786 --> 18:00.633
Right. Right. Some, in some cases, but it just feels more like,
18:00.857 --> 18:03.774
um, you need to eat to be alive and it's,
18:04.095 --> 18:07.573
it just makes it stressful. So, yeah. And then the choking
18:07.669 --> 18:11.083
aspect and there's just like so many, but the speech one too.
18:12.878 --> 18:15.939
It's so interesting because as I said,
18:15.955 --> 18:19.048
my kids were a little, like a couple months delayed maybe. I don't, I,
18:19.304 --> 18:22.109
at this point I don't remember. And I feel like that's the part that's hard.
18:22.333 --> 18:25.763
That's just because a lot of parents, like my, one of my best friends,
18:25.955 --> 18:29.481
again, that best friend term, one of my best friends has a daughter who's much,
18:29.545 --> 18:32.590
much older and she's like, oh yeah, she was like that. And then at 18
18:32.606 --> 18:35.459
months it just exploded. 'Cause that's what people say.
18:36.212 --> 18:39.898
But in the period that you're in during it, you're like, okay,
18:40.139 --> 18:43.809
but is this normal like that? Feels so different than now being on the other
18:44.309 --> 18:48.826
side because like I said, like my kids, their speech is unbelievable
18:49.420 --> 18:52.529
and has been since the day they then
18:52.882 --> 18:56.858
like they started speaking and then it went wild. That's probably not everyone's experience.
18:56.906 --> 19:00.544
So now I don't worry about it, but early on they were delayed.
19:00.801 --> 19:04.151
Like they def— that's, that's a fact with milestones, they were delayed.
19:04.328 --> 19:08.127
Um, so let's, let's talk about speech a little bit. Is that the
19:08.627 --> 19:11.605
norm that like it's just behind and then it excels or no, or?
19:11.798 --> 19:15.452
Yeah, it can be. And that's why it's important to then like be referred,
19:15.484 --> 19:18.080
have the professional look at you. Because like when I see a kid come in
19:18.192 --> 19:20.868
and they're just like have a little language delay, like,
19:21.894 --> 19:25.099
oh, it's so easy. I'm not worried because I know, okay, I can just try
19:25.599 --> 19:28.400
to work on some of these things. Maybe they will hit that. Like 18 months
19:28.900 --> 19:32.021
does feel like a very critical time. Like some, sometimes you have that language explosion,
19:32.134 --> 19:35.210
we even call it. Um, or, you know, you,
19:36.300 --> 19:40.275
I see a kid and I'm like, you know, I'm having some concerns for their
19:40.404 --> 19:43.905
receptive language too. They're not, they're not responding to their name,
19:43.921 --> 19:48.258
they're not following directions. Um, you know, could there be something larger
19:48.758 --> 19:51.647
going on here, right? And so it's like, as a parent, is why the referral
19:52.147 --> 19:55.117
is important. Like, as a parent, you might not know that, right? But if you,
19:55.422 --> 19:57.992
if you came to the expert, then they can kind of help guide, like,
19:58.217 --> 20:01.847
hey, I think they actually should go for a neuropsych evaluation. Or, you know,
20:02.249 --> 20:05.156
okay, there, there's some other things going on here.
20:05.686 --> 20:08.866
Versus just, okay, yeah, listen, let me give you some, um,
20:09.075 --> 20:12.560
tips for helping to facilitate like a language-rich environment,
20:12.608 --> 20:16.623
right? Those are like totally different cases. Like one that's very easy
20:17.123 --> 20:19.980
for me, one that's like I'm a little more concerned about. Uh,
20:20.076 --> 20:23.593
I should also be clear that despite saying all these things that
20:24.093 --> 20:26.259
I didn't track the milestones, so I made sure I wasn't anxious. All of that
20:26.759 --> 20:30.676
is true. And we did have them evaluated. Yeah. Like my pediatrician was like,
20:31.222 --> 20:34.402
um, maybe, I don't know. Like she's like, it doesn't hurt. And I
20:34.434 --> 20:38.027
was like, Cool. I agreed. Like, if they're not meeting it, you're telling
20:38.059 --> 20:42.132
me it doesn't hurt. I'm obviously a little concerned,
20:42.148 --> 20:45.355
you know, like they're not meeting this thing that people are talking about.
20:45.596 --> 20:48.835
So we had them evaluated and they like, and had
20:48.867 --> 20:52.299
the people even still keep coming, even though, because it, to your point,
20:52.315 --> 20:55.987
it takes time. And in the window, we like looked for it. And then
20:56.324 --> 20:59.643
from when they were evaluated in that window, they started speaking.
20:59.707 --> 21:02.658
So by the time they came, it was like, Well, now I'm not worried,
21:02.738 --> 21:06.296
but should I still be? So they like came to make sure it
21:06.796 --> 21:09.230
stayed on track. And at that point, I literally just had a person come to
21:09.730 --> 21:12.484
my house to like shoot the shit with me because there was no more concern.
21:12.933 --> 21:15.915
But they probably were like, this is a nice one to have on the caseload.
21:15.963 --> 21:19.233
Super easy. If these kids are, yeah, I look like a rock star. I do
21:19.249 --> 21:22.407
one thing and they copy it, you know? But yeah, yeah. But it
21:22.455 --> 21:26.158
was also helpful to your point too, of like, I was speaking to
21:26.658 --> 21:30.518
them like an adult would speak to another human
21:30.566 --> 21:34.335
being because I hadn't had a baby at that age. Age before and like
21:34.835 --> 21:37.931
things. So she gave me some things to say that at this
21:37.947 --> 21:40.741
point I again don't even remember because now I still speak to them like they're
21:40.757 --> 21:44.386
adults. Yeah. Um, and but I explain a lot to them and maybe that
21:44.434 --> 21:47.951
is what changed. Like I, I explain everything. I explain everything
21:47.983 --> 21:51.740
we're doing. I answer their questions fully. If there's something I don't
21:52.240 --> 21:56.782
want them to do, I tell them why. And I think maybe that originated
21:56.878 --> 22:00.793
then because it was like, well, giving them more information,
22:00.825 --> 22:04.592
you know, more to work with, um, is sort of what—
22:04.656 --> 22:07.606
there were, there were things that she said and did that I found helpful.
22:07.798 --> 22:11.085
Um, so I'm always glad that I have. I think that's why I, I do
22:11.585 --> 22:15.156
tend towards like, if, if you are concerned, like within
22:15.172 --> 22:18.955
reason, right? Like, you know, no one should be getting an evaluation 'cause their,
22:19.324 --> 22:22.274
you know, 9-month-old isn't talking or something, right? Within reason,
22:22.771 --> 22:25.726
it, it's just helpful to have that expert say, Yes,
22:25.855 --> 22:29.603
everything's okay, or no, I'm a little concerned. And even when
22:29.652 --> 22:32.867
it's the yes, everything's okay, it's like, oh yeah, and here's like a couple things
22:32.883 --> 22:36.063
you could keep trying, right? You know what I mean? Like, it's always helpful to
22:36.563 --> 22:40.037
just have that kind of like that guidance. I mean, I would say like my
22:40.537 --> 22:43.826
biggest tips is like, and this came,
22:44.099 --> 22:46.527
this is one of those things that it came very naturally to me, but I
22:47.027 --> 22:50.368
know from talking to other people, it doesn't always like, you just need to just
22:50.868 --> 22:54.256
be narrating everything you're doing at all times. Like, the only way
22:54.756 --> 22:58.503
they learn is by imitating and getting that exposure. So it's just like, you know,
22:58.647 --> 23:01.515
I always joke that I'm gonna be like in the nursing home with dementia being
23:01.547 --> 23:04.400
like, put in, take out, ready?
23:05.153 --> 23:08.502
Oh, oh, it fell. And they're gonna
23:09.002 --> 23:12.637
be like, what is this like 86-year-old person like talking about now?
23:12.749 --> 23:16.114
Just like, put in, put in, take out. What are you talking about? But just
23:16.614 --> 23:20.427
kind of narrating narrating every single part of the play and emphasizing
23:21.421 --> 23:25.190
what we call like these core words that, um, that you use. So core
23:25.690 --> 23:29.407
words are, um, when you look at our, what we talk about, our vocabulary,
23:29.423 --> 23:32.647
they make up like 80% of what we talk about. And then fringe words
23:33.032 --> 23:36.447
are those 20%. So fringe, and this is a common thing parents
23:36.947 --> 23:39.622
do, like fringe is like naming all the animals, cow, pig,
23:40.184 --> 23:43.295
but that only, that those words are only important when you're playing with the
23:43.795 --> 23:47.406
farm. In, out, go, stop,
23:48.128 --> 23:51.614
put, come, take. You're going to use that the whole
23:51.726 --> 23:55.051
day. So when you're trying to think like, okay, this toddler is delayed in
23:55.099 --> 23:58.295
language, if I could help them to learn 10 words, what would be the
23:58.327 --> 24:01.459
10 most important words? Things that they can use throughout their day,
24:01.925 --> 24:05.844
not 10 animals, because now you've gone to playing with cars,
24:06.277 --> 24:09.779
you can't say anything now. So it's kind of like trying to focus on
24:11.094 --> 24:14.671
Those high-frequency words, narrating, which, which you
24:14.687 --> 24:17.719
use all the time. So if you're just talking every day, oh, I'm, I'm pouring
24:17.751 --> 24:21.874
your milk, it's going in, in, in, you know, basically I—
24:22.788 --> 24:26.349
Miss Rachel is the best and the worst because I feel like if a
24:26.397 --> 24:28.755
parent ever watched Miss Rachel and they came to my session, they'd be like,
24:29.477 --> 24:32.076
so you're just doing what Miss Rachel does?
24:32.749 --> 24:36.038
Is that your job? You watch her and you imitate it? And then I also,
24:36.054 --> 24:39.488
like, when I first watched her, I was like, Why did I not
24:39.988 --> 24:43.838
think of doing this? But because you're not a musical theater major who
24:44.127 --> 24:48.124
can write all your own songs. I'm not married to Mr. Aaron who produces
24:48.156 --> 24:51.238
music or whatever. Yeah, unfortunately not married to Mr.
24:51.350 --> 24:53.694
Aaron. Or fortunately, you know. Sorry,
24:54.320 --> 24:57.450
um, yeah, so I mean,
24:57.466 --> 25:00.500
she is— I know some people think she's annoying, but like, that is a good
25:01.000 --> 25:04.256
example of how she kind of like slows down and she really emphasizes the
25:04.272 --> 25:07.784
words and she Is constantly narrating what she's doing.
25:08.217 --> 25:11.807
You know, those are all really good strategies for helping to build those foundations for
25:12.307 --> 25:15.814
language. Um, and repetit— repetition. So like when
25:15.846 --> 25:19.484
you're doing, you doing play, you try to like ready, set,
25:19.757 --> 25:22.738
and you leave that last word off for them to try to, try to vocally
25:23.238 --> 25:25.350
fill in. I'm sure the prob— this is some of the stuff that was happening
25:25.850 --> 25:29.999
with the EI therapist that was coming. Like, I, I, I don't really
25:30.499 --> 25:33.316
remember, which is funny cuz I don't remember her. There's 2 things from it that
25:33.816 --> 25:37.421
I do remember. But, um, one being in the evaluation,
25:37.469 --> 25:40.964
my kids were like so far ahead in certain motor
25:40.996 --> 25:44.828
things, gross motor, I guess, but fine motor, this, the test
25:44.844 --> 25:47.939
is specifically picking up a crayon and drawing with it.
25:48.355 --> 25:51.867
And I hadn't exposed them to that. So they like failed that because they
25:51.899 --> 25:54.384
were like, what is this? Do I eat it? Like, I don't know.
25:54.865 --> 25:57.510
And I was like, I have twins. I don't know. I never showed them a
25:58.010 --> 26:00.605
crayon. Like, this is me. You know, the part that I hate so much is
26:00.653 --> 26:03.827
like the, the guilt then, right? You're like, It's my fault they don't
26:04.327 --> 26:06.745
know how to use— like, the amount of times that I would be in an
26:07.245 --> 26:09.775
eval— like, I was in an eval one time and this mom's like, oh,
26:09.791 --> 26:13.542
like, my father passed away when he was like 6 months old and I feel
26:14.042 --> 26:17.149
like I, I got depressed and then I wasn't talking a lot to him.
26:17.405 --> 26:20.243
So like, I feel like he's like— he has a delay because,
26:20.916 --> 26:24.154
because of that. And I'm just like, okay, this is one of those
26:24.654 --> 26:27.457
times where I was like, this is good that I'm a parent. So yeah,
26:27.473 --> 26:30.698
we're just gonna pause right there. Like, This is not—
26:31.198 --> 26:33.782
first of all, the, the kid did have— he, he was autistic. So it was
26:34.282 --> 26:36.256
like kind of one of those things too. It was like, you couldn't really not—
26:36.545 --> 26:39.758
you literally not have done anything about this. But the fact that you're
26:40.258 --> 26:42.842
coming here and that's like the first thing you're saying to me is just like,
26:43.211 --> 26:47.162
oh, it hurts my heart that you are internalizing this guilt.
26:47.869 --> 26:50.857
And so I'm like, okay, you had no influence. Like, I'm sorry that happened to
26:51.357 --> 26:54.889
you, and then you had no influence on what's going on right now. And like
26:55.112 --> 26:58.173
you know, now we can do the evaluation, right?
26:58.237 --> 27:01.666
So yeah, to that, like, the connection we make
27:02.166 --> 27:05.384
between like our kid having a delay or having a challenge and then how,
27:05.993 --> 27:09.838
how that's caused by our parenting. And like, most of the time it's
27:10.338 --> 27:14.309
not, you know, like, your kids are more advanced motor-wise
27:14.822 --> 27:17.738
and you were— had the evaluation there for language. Well,
27:18.187 --> 27:21.922
that's not surprising to me because, you know, like, one skill excels while
27:21.938 --> 27:25.455
another skill is, right. Brain is like going through these
27:25.487 --> 27:28.666
bursts. And so it's like you'll have this burst in motor skill and language kind
27:29.166 --> 27:32.472
of takes a backseat or vice versa. You have a burst in language and motor
27:32.972 --> 27:36.052
takes a backseat. It's like, that's why there's ranges,
27:36.405 --> 27:39.585
right? That's why it's kind of like has their own path,
27:40.098 --> 27:43.599
their own. Well, also on the narration component, which is funny,
27:44.032 --> 27:47.299
I don't know if, um, This might've been,
27:47.478 --> 27:51.214
I don't know, even now still like hearing that feels ridiculous.
27:51.799 --> 27:53.830
And you, I don't know, did you read Bringing Up Bébé?
27:55.487 --> 27:58.912
Um, I did. I didn't like it. Some people love it.
27:58.961 --> 28:02.031
Some people don't. There are things about it that I loved. I've heard a lot
28:02.531 --> 28:04.911
of mixed, I've heard so many people are like, you guys look very anti-vax.
28:04.959 --> 28:07.877
She was like, oh, in France they don't do that. Exactly. Yeah. So I,
28:08.282 --> 28:11.118
that is what I think about now. Cause I think about,
28:11.426 --> 28:14.516
she was like, like when she was being like, Oh, an American parent on the
28:15.016 --> 28:18.126
playground be like, ooh wee, you know, it's like, shut your mouth because that's me,
28:18.511 --> 28:21.432
you know. But all I'm thinking about right now as you're saying that, it's like
28:21.480 --> 28:24.930
this stereotypical annoying American, then we overdo
28:24.946 --> 28:28.572
everything and we like talk to these kids like they're whatever.
28:28.941 --> 28:32.150
And so you, that I guess I internalized because
28:32.230 --> 28:36.162
even now I'm thinking like, that feels like
28:36.662 --> 28:39.868
this stereotypical annoying thing, but it's healthy to do, you know,
28:39.964 --> 28:43.542
it's like this weird. I'm glad you, this is a good point
28:44.042 --> 28:48.243
that you brought up. I think that, or, well, I know this, that even
28:48.933 --> 28:53.328
most kids will develop language despite having like a super language-rich
28:53.828 --> 28:57.371
environment or not, right? Because like the, the usually the,
28:57.500 --> 29:00.772
the typical development, that's why it's called typical, 'cause typically what
29:00.789 --> 29:04.318
happens is you develop language whether you have an SLP
29:04.818 --> 29:08.877
mom going like, ooh honey, you want more, more. Or somebody
29:09.054 --> 29:12.171
who's not doing that, right? The, the, the chances that the kid will,
29:12.508 --> 29:15.705
will develop language and, and talk and have,
29:15.962 --> 29:18.887
you know, mastery of language is probable.
29:19.754 --> 29:23.787
It's more like if your child is delayed, then those other
29:23.915 --> 29:27.675
factors are important of narrating, using those
29:27.852 --> 29:31.419
like close-ended ready, set, because now we've already said, okay, for some
29:31.919 --> 29:35.335
reason they're having struggles. They're not picking up on it.
29:35.719 --> 29:39.486
And so, you know, how can we like focus in on intervention? I mean,
29:39.502 --> 29:42.820
that's even why actually Miss Rachel exists is her son was language
29:43.320 --> 29:46.715
delayed. Yeah. And she, so I think that's actually a good point that like,
29:47.180 --> 29:50.514
you know, you, you probably will,
29:50.626 --> 29:53.046
even if you don't do any of the things I just said, like your kid
29:53.546 --> 29:56.332
will probably learn to talk and be just fine. It's more like if you are
29:56.832 --> 30:00.451
feeling like, oh, we're approaching those milestone times and, and then I'm not
30:00.499 --> 30:03.570
hearing that it's not happening. That can be helpful. So I think that's where
30:04.070 --> 30:06.890
it's like in her book, she's kind of being like, oh, that's, you know,
30:07.390 --> 30:10.630
and it's like, yeah, because probably the default, so then the most
30:11.130 --> 30:14.850
often the language will come regardless of kind of what input you're putting in.
30:15.350 --> 30:18.670
Does that make sense? Yeah, totally. Pieces of like neglect or no,
30:19.170 --> 30:23.170
you know, deprivation, but different. That's not what we're talking about. So yeah,
30:23.670 --> 30:25.650
I do remember her saying that and me being like, I didn't like the book
30:26.150 --> 30:28.690
for other reasons. I did love it for the feeding parts.
30:29.040 --> 30:32.729
Talking about, yeah, like the schedule, like in the,
30:33.030 --> 30:35.370
the, you know, how they're not hungry at meals and that's why they're terrible at
30:35.870 --> 30:38.370
restaurants. That one stuck with me. And how like, and I was like, oh my
30:38.870 --> 30:42.250
God, I wish our daycares were making them like, you know, carrot puree and whatnot.
30:42.750 --> 30:46.090
And like the, oh yeah. Oh my God. The meals at the free daycare.
30:46.230 --> 30:49.550
Yeah. It's not a good daycare. Um, you know how like,
30:50.050 --> 30:52.430
you know, Americans, we always like run around with kids with our snacks and I'm
30:52.930 --> 30:55.190
like, so it's funny cuz then I'm like, in that part I'm like, yeah,
30:55.690 --> 30:58.666
I don't, I don't bring snacks to the playground. It's like, You know, you're hungry.
30:58.730 --> 31:01.814
Okay. Right. Let's have lunch. I know I don't either. It's like meals.
31:01.943 --> 31:04.738
And sometimes I'll have what we'll call, I'll call it snack lunch because we're out,
31:04.850 --> 31:08.239
but like it's lunch. They just happen to be eating snacks for lunch. Lunch is
31:08.739 --> 31:12.159
our lunch because the lunches are your meal. So that it's just a
31:12.576 --> 31:15.725
little smush board of snacks. But yeah,
31:15.757 --> 31:19.001
it depends on the day, the location or whatever. But I do.
31:19.307 --> 31:23.113
So let's segue into that, which is perfect. Um, I want to talk about
31:23.643 --> 31:26.854
2 things, feeding things that will, I mean, it's, as we said,
31:26.870 --> 31:30.627
it's so stressful. So I don't know, like we'll try to highlight certain things and
31:31.127 --> 31:34.560
you helping me with that. And then also picky eating, because I know
31:34.784 --> 31:38.396
there's certain things that maybe you think or could
31:38.896 --> 31:42.041
have influenced that with your kids. Um, which I have interesting takes on
31:42.541 --> 31:45.203
because I have, again, 2 kids that were raised in the exact same environment.
31:45.637 --> 31:48.847
I mean, granted, he has some sensitivities, which I think
31:49.347 --> 31:52.938
influenced it a lot. But I don't know. I have one kid that will look
31:53.438 --> 31:55.873
at what I'm eating and go, um, can I have some of that? And the
31:55.889 --> 31:59.320
other kid that's like, I'm all set. Um, and she'll like eat my bowl of
31:59.352 --> 32:02.832
quinoa and I'm like, this isn't even good. Why are you eating it? Um,
32:02.977 --> 32:06.184
it's made with like, there's some tomatoes on it. And she's like, oh yeah,
32:06.392 --> 32:09.616
I want that. Um, so there's 2 parts. So let's start
32:10.116 --> 32:13.785
with first the feeding itself and how scary that can be and help
32:14.285 --> 32:17.860
tips there because you literally Thank God we went on that
32:18.360 --> 32:21.103
trip at the time that we did because I was super intimidated. I had started
32:21.603 --> 32:25.182
with baby-led weaning. One of my kids gagged so hard they threw up everything in
32:25.682 --> 32:28.891
their bottle. And my mom was there who's 1,000 times more anxious than I am.
32:28.955 --> 32:32.696
And she's like, you need to not do this. You need to do purees
32:32.792 --> 32:35.024
like I did. And I'm like, yes, ma'am. Yes, I do.
32:36.164 --> 32:40.162
And then luckily it like boomer, a little bit of a mix. Hate baby-led
32:40.178 --> 32:44.625
weaning. Yeah, sure. They cannot. My mom was like— my
32:44.689 --> 32:46.856
mom was so funny during that time. She'd be like, no, no, no. I'm like,
32:46.872 --> 32:51.029
Mom, I literally do this for work. Like, yeah, right. Like, I am very skilled
32:51.093 --> 32:54.511
in this arena. But then I was afraid to give them like anything, and you
32:54.720 --> 32:58.428
like smushed some berries and handed it to them, and they were covered
32:58.572 --> 33:02.248
in berries and having the time of their lives. And I'm like, okay, all right,
33:02.264 --> 33:05.393
this is safe. I can do this. So I will say,
33:06.019 --> 33:09.641
um, I feel like baby-led weaning But that is what I did with my kids,
33:09.900 --> 33:12.462
and I feel like it's very popular right now. But I,
33:13.905 --> 33:18.265
I think that that's kind of tough because I feel like now
33:18.765 --> 33:21.784
parents feel like that's what they should do, that's what they have to do,
33:22.157 --> 33:26.255
and it's not. Like, the research is showing that whether you choose baby-led weaning
33:26.995 --> 33:30.119
or whether you choose like the traditional approach of starting with purees,
33:30.473 --> 33:34.144
both can be equally as effective, um, in gaining
33:34.241 --> 33:37.365
skill for feeding and for, you know, pickiness, right? So I feel like people think
33:37.865 --> 33:41.096
like, oh, baby-led is what you need to do to not have a
33:41.144 --> 33:44.462
picky eater. And that's not necessarily true.
33:44.847 --> 33:48.565
So the traditional approach would be starting with purees
33:48.902 --> 33:52.332
and then grad— like a couple months later, introducing finger foods.
33:52.909 --> 33:56.372
Um, and then as they get older, then they
33:56.872 --> 33:59.353
can just eat normal foods that are modified slightly, like,
34:00.459 --> 34:03.473
whereas baby-led weaning is starting with real foods.
34:03.970 --> 34:08.076
Um, you can incorporate purees, but it's like the child is like leading that
34:08.576 --> 34:10.662
by like you hand them the spoon that has the purees loaded and you feed
34:11.162 --> 34:13.955
it to themselves. Which I did do. I did do that. But yeah, it's mostly
34:14.455 --> 34:17.248
like, okay, you're gonna give— thanks to you though, you like sent me specific spoons
34:17.748 --> 34:20.300
and things to use and that's what I did. Yeah. So I think it creates
34:20.348 --> 34:25.023
a lot of anxiety that people think they have to do baby-led weaning and the,
34:25.248 --> 34:28.669
the mo— what the research really shows is that the most important thing
34:28.717 --> 34:32.556
is to have responsive feeding, have caregivers
34:32.637 --> 34:35.865
use a responsive feeding approach. So. That looks like
34:36.828 --> 34:40.006
reading the cues from your child. Is your child, like, if you start with purees,
34:40.022 --> 34:43.249
that's totally fine, but what we shouldn't be doing is trying to kind of sneak
34:43.749 --> 34:46.106
a bite in, or they're turning their head away and you're still coming at them
34:46.138 --> 34:49.669
with the spoon. So those are all examples of not
34:50.169 --> 34:52.607
being responsive. Your child is trying to tell you that they don't want to eat
34:52.799 --> 34:56.106
and you're trying to kind of force it. And those are the things that can
34:56.606 --> 34:59.990
later create picky eating. Baby-led weaning by nature doesn't already
35:00.023 --> 35:02.190
have that because the whole point is you put the food down and the kid
35:02.690 --> 35:06.680
picks it up. But you can do purees that same way by just
35:07.000 --> 35:10.464
reading the child's cues. So, you know, you have your puree, you have your
35:10.964 --> 35:13.510
spoon, you wanna be looking for what we call like a positive tilt. So if
35:13.558 --> 35:16.749
the child's leaning towards you, they have, they're opening their mouth.
35:17.182 --> 35:20.917
I mean, they're telling you, I want that bite. So whether you are giving
35:21.014 --> 35:24.798
it to them or you're loading the spoon and handing it to them, if they're
35:25.298 --> 35:29.608
bringing their mouth open and leaning towards you, they are showing interest
35:30.108 --> 35:32.656
and you are responding by giving it to them. And when they show cues that
35:33.156 --> 35:36.174
they don't want it by turning away or pushing it away, and you stop,
35:36.511 --> 35:39.933
you're being responsive. That's what
35:39.949 --> 35:43.595
you have to do. That's how you help them to become someone who feels like,
35:43.724 --> 35:47.563
okay, eating is fun, I'm enjoying this, and creating a positive association.
35:47.916 --> 35:51.498
So I think it's become this thing, 'cause you
35:51.594 --> 35:54.694
are not the only friend that has been like, oh my God, I'm trying to
35:55.194 --> 35:58.338
do this baby-led weaning, and I'm just so terrified. To be doing it and
35:58.354 --> 36:02.410
be so anxious and be, be scared. And the kids
36:02.442 --> 36:05.072
can pick up on that. So if that, if that's your experience— well, it's to
36:05.572 --> 36:08.775
be fun. If that's your experience with it, don't do it. Do period. And then
36:09.275 --> 36:12.831
when they turn 8, 9 months, okay, now you can start offering some finger foods.
36:13.489 --> 36:16.599
Yeah, it'd be worse to do baby-led weaning with your heart not in it,
36:16.952 --> 36:20.735
freaking out, you know, they gag and you're— because
36:20.783 --> 36:24.150
then they're learning, oh my God, oh, that was scary, that's dangerous, I shouldn't
36:24.650 --> 36:28.578
be doing that, right? So it's like, if it's not for you pivot
36:28.658 --> 36:32.110
and do purees. And I think, like, people need
36:32.610 --> 36:36.140
to know that the, the research on either approach is consistent
36:36.640 --> 36:40.427
as long as you're being responsive. That makes sense. Yes,
36:40.861 --> 36:44.281
it does. And I remember being like, then when I decided, okay,
36:44.297 --> 36:46.770
I'm gonna start with purees and I'll do a mix and I'll do different things,
36:47.027 --> 36:50.784
I think I ended up doing a mix also because my pediatrician
36:50.880 --> 36:54.185
or people were like, well, You do one ingredient at a
36:54.685 --> 36:58.497
time. And like right now, unless you're, I mean, if I didn't have twins because
36:58.997 --> 37:01.591
I'm so crunchy out there weirdo and I had more,
37:02.120 --> 37:05.695
less on my plate, I probably would have made everything if I'm being
37:05.711 --> 37:09.542
honest with myself. But the world— organic options now that,
37:09.959 --> 37:13.453
I mean, like, well, there, there are great organic options sort of. And I
37:13.501 --> 37:16.932
think this is why the universe humbled me by giving me twins because
37:17.432 --> 37:19.096
I couldn't do all those things, which is probably a good thing for me.
37:19.657 --> 37:22.815
Um, but it was tricky to find single ingredients.
37:22.863 --> 37:26.389
Like there's like a few classic single ingredients, but then everything
37:26.470 --> 37:28.922
is mixed because you're in like step 2.
37:29.275 --> 37:32.304
Um, so it was like a little tricky in that I
37:32.400 --> 37:37.001
wanted to make sure I was exposing them to things and like
37:37.450 --> 37:40.720
for allergy-wise, which you don't even necessarily think of or sensitivities.
37:40.816 --> 37:44.246
And granted, none of that even mattered because I still have a son with sensitivities.
37:44.375 --> 37:47.981
So I just like, I think that's why I ended
37:48.481 --> 37:51.860
up with the mixed approach, but I, it was helpful and it was the right
37:52.360 --> 37:55.598
thing for me, right? Like, I, I'm glad that— and a lot of people ended
37:56.098 --> 37:58.356
up telling me that same thing. They were like, well, then we went to purees.
37:58.452 --> 38:00.954
And now, to your point, there are so many purees out there that, like,
38:01.275 --> 38:05.220
I remember giving them salmon puree, which I was like, ew, but they loved it.
38:05.269 --> 38:08.877
And I was like, great, full of omegas, it's organic, they love
38:09.377 --> 38:12.903
it. And they even still eat salmon a lot now. Yeah. But so let's talk
38:13.403 --> 38:16.495
about the picky eating part too, because I'm curious.
38:16.816 --> 38:19.767
You don't have picky eaters, and like I said, I have one. I wouldn't even
38:19.799 --> 38:23.747
call him a picky eater, but Because of his stomach stuff, whatever, but he's pickier
38:23.876 --> 38:26.862
and it's not as easy to feed him. But even still, like you have a
38:27.362 --> 38:30.345
kid that's very similar age to mine, even though she's not picky, does she still
38:30.845 --> 38:34.150
have like toddler preferences where she's like, I want quesadilla and you're like,
38:34.230 --> 38:37.826
okay, here's quesadilla. This is where, this is
38:37.922 --> 38:41.984
one area where I feel like parents do have more influence than they realize.
38:42.032 --> 38:44.969
I think sometimes people just say like, oh, you're so lucky your kid's not picky.
38:45.066 --> 38:47.907
Or like, ugh, they're just so picky. There's nothing I can do about that.
38:48.372 --> 38:51.612
I, I do think that there is some influence we have here, but it is
38:51.660 --> 38:54.996
important to know that every
38:55.044 --> 38:58.893
single child, when they get to toddlerhood, will exhibit
38:59.393 --> 39:02.854
some— they will not be eating like, like, oh, 12 months, they're eating everything.
39:02.966 --> 39:05.724
There's, there, there isn't a food they won't eat. Now,
39:06.254 --> 39:10.503
oh my gosh, they're, they're, they're refusing that. They're— that is 100%
39:11.003 --> 39:13.839
going to happen. So like, let's set the stage for realistic expectations.
39:14.530 --> 39:17.486
It's for several reasons. One's cognitive development.
39:17.551 --> 39:21.391
Like, when you're 12 months, you don't even know that there's other options.
39:21.729 --> 39:24.958
You're just, right, presented to you. When you're
39:25.458 --> 39:29.120
2 and a half, 3, you are aware that there's another food that
39:29.620 --> 39:31.964
could be in the fridge that you want to have, or that, like, I ate
39:32.464 --> 39:35.291
something yesterday that I really liked and I want that right now. So one,
39:35.307 --> 39:38.553
there's the, there's just the awareness of other things. And 2,
39:39.324 --> 39:42.675
um, in the same reasons that we're seeing it show up in other areas
39:42.771 --> 39:46.523
of like temper tantrums. Like, they're experimenting with protesting,
39:46.635 --> 39:50.001
refusals, pushing boundaries. What will happen if I say no?
39:50.466 --> 39:54.218
You know, and, um, and they even have kind of shown that like there's
39:54.570 --> 39:58.337
evolu— from an evolutionary standpoint, like this
39:58.837 --> 40:02.329
concept of like neophobia. Like toddlers go through this period of being afraid
40:02.829 --> 40:06.193
of new things as a way to protect themselves because like way
40:06.257 --> 40:09.673
back, you know, hunter-gatherer days, like a baby is always with mom.
40:10.042 --> 40:13.810
So mom's always seeing what baby's eating. And now 2,
40:13.907 --> 40:16.986
3, they're kind of toddling off. They're exploring. They're not always
40:17.082 --> 40:21.428
like hovered around by an adult. So dangerous
40:21.928 --> 40:25.100
to pick that berry and eat it. Could be poisonous, could die. So kind of,
40:25.116 --> 40:28.372
this is like almost like an evolutionary trait of them to be like, I don't
40:28.388 --> 40:31.707
recognize that. That's new. I'm going to be cautious. I'm not going to eat it.
40:31.997 --> 40:35.097
Because I wish that would fucking apply to running in the street.
40:35.872 --> 40:40.603
Yes, why? Why? Poisonous berries are not
40:40.796 --> 40:44.108
as an impact in today's life as like, yeah, like let me
40:44.608 --> 40:47.483
just— Sydney the other day was like, there's a cat in the street, and there
40:47.983 --> 40:51.123
was, and sprinted into the street, and I was like, fabulous. Uh, right.
40:52.413 --> 40:55.816
So all that to say is that we should expect there to be some level
40:55.865 --> 40:59.898
of pickiness. Now this is where parents can kind of like tip
41:00.398 --> 41:04.011
that over into becoming extremely picky or just kind
41:04.511 --> 41:08.188
of smooth sailing through this normal pickiness phase and getting
41:08.253 --> 41:12.126
through to it on the other side. So, I think if
41:12.626 --> 41:15.743
I were to make one most important tip,
41:15.824 --> 41:18.251
there's several tips, but the most important one is this.
41:21.216 --> 41:24.974
I love this approach. It's by Ellen Satter. I think she's a nutritionist.
41:25.722 --> 41:29.568
And she causes this concept called division of responsibility. So the parents
41:30.068 --> 41:33.029
decide when and what is being served for food,
41:33.878 --> 41:37.018
and the child decides if they'll eat it and how much.
41:37.675 --> 41:40.944
So I genuinely never say like, you need to take a
41:41.444 --> 41:44.805
bite of that, or try this and then you can get whatever.
41:44.902 --> 41:48.394
Like, I don't use any of that. I even try to like explain it to
41:48.894 --> 41:51.936
her in terms I think she'll understand. Like, this is what's on the menu tonight.
41:52.144 --> 41:54.549
This is what's being served. You don't have to eat it,
41:55.432 --> 41:58.851
um, but this is what we're all having. We all have the same meal.
41:59.461 --> 42:03.152
And it takes some, it takes some, some pre-planning. Like,
42:03.168 --> 42:05.190
if I'm, if it's something that I think is like, oh, this is a little
42:05.239 --> 42:08.481
weird, maybe she's not going to want this, I will, the menu
42:08.689 --> 42:11.707
will include blueberries because I know she's going to eat blueberries. So we're eating,
42:12.204 --> 42:16.072
uh, you know, let's say salmon and asparagus and blueberries. Like, that would never
42:16.572 --> 42:19.507
be a meal I would make for me and my, my husband, but like I'm
42:20.007 --> 42:22.670
gonna put a food on there and pre— say, this is where the pre-planning kind
42:23.170 --> 42:26.155
of comes in and with the mental load, and that can be tough. But I
42:26.187 --> 42:29.222
sort of pre-think like, okay, what's one thing I know she'll definitely eat?
42:29.382 --> 42:33.011
I'll include that into the meal. And then I'm— that's
42:33.511 --> 42:35.901
it. That's what we're having. And if she refuses to eat the rest of the
42:36.401 --> 42:41.039
stuff, I let that be how it is. I do not say—
42:41.280 --> 42:43.544
if she says, oh, well, I wanna have, you know,
42:44.732 --> 42:48.184
toast or something. I don't bring that out because what
42:48.684 --> 42:51.331
I, what you then teach is that no matter what's being served,
42:51.797 --> 42:55.811
I can always get what I want. I can always get something different. So I
42:56.311 --> 42:59.359
don't have to eat this because no matter what I do, how much I dig
42:59.407 --> 43:03.405
in, something else will show up. So it's like to preemptively
43:03.903 --> 43:07.660
add something I know she'll like and then say nothing else is coming,
43:07.692 --> 43:12.220
this is it. I'd say probably at least
43:12.720 --> 43:15.585
7, 8 out of 10 times, the rest of the food gets eaten. Not without
43:15.633 --> 43:18.856
crying first, a protest, yelling. And I say, no,
43:19.145 --> 43:21.743
you know, you don't have to eat it. I, I might, you know, do a
43:22.243 --> 43:25.671
little play things, I might ignore, but I just kind of— I think sticking firm
43:26.171 --> 43:29.520
to that boundary of like, nothing else is coming, so you
43:29.584 --> 43:32.149
decide if you want to eat all of the things on this plate, if you
43:32.649 --> 43:35.709
just want to eat the blueberries, that's up to you. And I, and I,
43:35.982 --> 43:38.806
I try to hold firm to that. And then You know, next thing you know,
43:38.951 --> 43:42.181
oh, look at that. The other things. Now you're eating the other things. You started
43:42.681 --> 43:45.153
with the blueberries, you ate all of them, and then you slowly started to eat
43:45.653 --> 43:48.737
the other things. 'Cause you know what? You, you are hungry and eating feels good
43:49.235 --> 43:52.079
and you know nothing else is coming. So yeah, you know what? This isn't so
43:52.579 --> 43:55.678
bad. This is fascinating 'cause I've,
43:56.000 --> 43:59.278
90% of me agrees with it. Like I, in concept
43:59.358 --> 44:02.877
and in theory, and that 10% of me who's not doing
44:02.974 --> 44:06.794
any of this. It's like, but because as
44:06.858 --> 44:10.084
a parent, you then have to accept like the fear
44:10.453 --> 44:13.679
that you put in yourself of like, but they, I needed them to eat.
44:13.824 --> 44:17.258
Like we were talking about before and the nourishment that needs to get
44:17.758 --> 44:21.126
in there. And like, I know that toddlers sometimes will eat air and sometimes will
44:21.287 --> 44:25.026
eat a whole casserole, but like, you know, it varies
44:25.122 --> 44:28.397
in wherever they are, but it's still like a harder pill to swallow.
44:28.894 --> 44:32.168
Yeah. This is where, like, when I would say this to a kid that I
44:32.200 --> 44:35.991
was working with, like, and they're like having— they're like
44:36.039 --> 44:39.878
underweight, like the parent would be like have a heart attack. Like, and yeah,
44:39.991 --> 44:43.878
because that is so much more stress. So baby steps
44:43.926 --> 44:46.978
too. Like, she's already not picky, so I can do this because I know,
44:47.685 --> 44:51.717
I know that she will— like, this happens not that often in our household,
44:52.103 --> 44:54.592
but if you're already— if so, like, what do I do? Like, oh, my kid's
44:55.092 --> 44:57.982
already picky. Like, what do I do for that? So you make their meal that
44:58.482 --> 45:01.178
they, you know, that they love these 3 things. So it has that,
45:01.515 --> 45:05.353
and then put a little bit of a non-preferred or a new food
45:05.853 --> 45:08.805
on the side. That's like, that's just part of the meal today. You don't have
45:09.305 --> 45:12.032
to eat it. Yeah. You don't have to touch it. It's just there. And kind
45:12.532 --> 45:16.095
of work away, work your way like the opposite way. Like, here's their safe foods,
45:16.352 --> 45:19.579
but I'm always gonna be adding. So, uh, in the example I gave with my
45:20.079 --> 45:23.561
family, like one safe food, 3 other foods that I'm not sure what she'll
45:23.657 --> 45:27.333
do with it, you would just flip that. Like, 3 safe foods,
45:27.510 --> 45:30.830
1 new food. And you just— yeah. And, and, and don't get me
45:31.330 --> 45:33.718
wrong, like, there's times I should be like, I don't want that. And she like
45:34.199 --> 45:36.926
flips out like we've never done this concept before.
45:37.616 --> 45:41.162
And just some— I just tell you like, okay, you don't
45:41.662 --> 45:43.905
have to— it will be on, it will be on your plate, or it will
45:43.969 --> 45:46.680
be on your plate. You don't have to touch it. You don't have to eat
45:47.180 --> 45:50.482
it. And like, and it's funny too, because it's like, you know, sometimes I'm like,
45:51.108 --> 45:53.561
I, I do this for work, and then You know, my mom will be over,
45:53.577 --> 45:56.719
she'll be like, you're, you're pushing her too much. Like, it's too much. And I'll
45:57.219 --> 46:00.085
start to like kind of have doubt in myself, but then sure enough, 30 minutes
46:00.585 --> 46:03.915
later, I elbow her, hey, look, and she's eating the food that we just had
46:04.415 --> 46:07.538
a 15-minute meltdown over wanting to throw off the
46:08.038 --> 46:11.353
table. Right. Yeah. So it is interesting because I do
46:11.385 --> 46:14.911
have in like, without knowing this intuitively, I just
46:15.411 --> 46:17.555
have a safe, I always have a safe food, but in my head I would
46:18.055 --> 46:20.280
call it like a starter food because even when they were little, it's like the
46:20.360 --> 46:23.695
thing they like. Current one put there, and then it gets them to start eating,
46:23.727 --> 46:26.901
and then they eat the whole plate. Eating begets eating. It's like they start eating,
46:26.997 --> 46:30.876
right? Favorite. And people might know this too from like, just like
46:31.004 --> 46:34.226
into, like, as an adult too, like intuitive eating and food has no
46:34.726 --> 46:37.433
morality and some of those kinds of things. Like, go ahead and put the,
46:37.673 --> 46:41.168
like, the dessert right on the, the plate with the dinner plate.
46:41.584 --> 46:45.672
And, you know, instead of like making that level of like, this food's
46:46.172 --> 46:48.624
better. So, you know what I mean? It's like, The message you are sending,
46:48.736 --> 46:51.883
if you're like, eat all your broccoli so you can have that cookie, you're just
46:52.383 --> 46:55.961
saying to them like, yeah, broccoli sucks and cookies are like,
46:56.427 --> 46:59.734
I'm going, here's your dinner. You have one cookie, you have 3 pieces of
47:00.234 --> 47:02.865
broccoli, and you have a piece of meat. Yeah, maybe they'll start with the,
47:03.106 --> 47:05.819
with the cookie first, but if,
47:06.542 --> 47:09.978
and then again, you know, we were talking about with the, from bringing up baby,
47:10.010 --> 47:13.253
if you're not, if you're not having them graze all day, you're having that nice,
47:13.301 --> 47:16.636
like Right. Mealtime with space in between,
47:16.748 --> 47:20.419
like they are gonna be hungry and they're gonna start with
47:20.919 --> 47:24.506
their favorite and then kind of go like, oh, that's feeling good. Eating's feeling good.
47:24.586 --> 47:27.809
And they keep going. Right. You know, you'll notice. Yeah. Generally my kid,
47:27.825 --> 47:30.902
I'll put the thing that they like and then yes, they, it sort of follows
47:30.999 --> 47:34.317
the, what you're saying. But most of the time I'm feeding them things that I
47:34.817 --> 47:38.308
know they will eat and I'll put something new knowing that my daughter might,
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used to definitely try it. Now it's hit or miss. Um, but my
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son will not, but before he would like throw it off his plate or And
47:46.090 --> 47:48.130
he still will be like, I don't want that. And now I just say,
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okay, eat around it. And he'll leave it there, which is a huge— like,
47:51.890 --> 47:55.330
that's, that is, that is huge step. Huge step. Yeah. So he'll,
47:55.830 --> 47:59.330
that's good. Um, but then, so I'm like, I'm naturally doing the things
47:59.830 --> 48:03.810
you're saying and also not because even my daughter who's not picky at all will
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eat things and then go, I want something else. And I'm like, okay, what do
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you want? And she tells me and it's made for her. I gotta go make
48:10.370 --> 48:13.130
it. Okay. Like we, that is a, and none of my, most of my friends
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don't do this, but I, we are like short order cooks in our house.
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It's like, what do you want? Okay. I'll go make it. That thing, it's usually,
48:19.574 --> 48:22.545
I, I would say the same things and I'd say, you're not a short order
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cook, you know, like that's what the rule is. That's what it is. And I
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will say, I do recommend like, okay, well,
48:29.692 --> 48:33.417
you know, especially like, you know, you do that. They, they are
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okay with the idea of like, okay, those other foods are there. And there's some
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like discretion that has to be used. Like let's say they eat all the blueberries
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and they're really not going for the other things. Like I want to have more
48:41.913 --> 48:45.831
blueberries that I'm more okay with than like adding something else that was never
48:46.331 --> 48:48.975
on the meal in the first place. That's amazing. And you know why I know
48:49.475 --> 48:52.740
this definitely works? And maybe, I don't know if this could
48:53.240 --> 48:56.442
go both ways, but I send things to school that I
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know at home they'd be like, I'm not gonna eat this. And I know they
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clear their plate at school. Like we, then my kids eat salmon a lot
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and it's always because I sent it to school. If I whipped out salmon at
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home, they'd be like, I don't want this right now. 'Cause I know there's 100
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other things in the fridge. I mean, that happens for me as an adult.
49:12.691 --> 49:16.260
I pack a salad for lunch, and when I get to lunch,
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I'm absolutely starving, and it is the most appetizing thing. I'm like, oh my God,
49:20.280 --> 49:23.700
I need to eat. Like, but if I'm at home and I've been grazing all
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day, you know, like, let's say it's like a holiday meal, you got like crackers
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and cheese and you're grazing on stuff, like, I'm not gonna go like, oh,
49:30.860 --> 49:34.340
look at that delicious salad, you know what I mean? Right, right. The,
49:34.840 --> 49:38.400
the setup beforehand of like, this is the only food I have, I brought this
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from home, I have 30 minutes to eat lunch, it's the only food I have,
49:41.480 --> 49:44.658
and I'm starving. That the way you eat that
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food is such a different experience than if you're like, not that hungry, and yeah,
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I can eat that, but like, what else is here? Like this other food that's
49:52.054 --> 49:55.435
like more, you know, appetizing. And that goes in like the cookie. Yeah, like eating
49:55.935 --> 49:58.466
because you're hungry, you're eating because you're bored kind of thing. Like the same things
49:58.966 --> 50:02.443
apply to our, our toddlers. And so yeah, that's a perfect example.
50:02.604 --> 50:06.003
Like they got sent to school, they probably don't even put up a fight because
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they know like, well,
50:07.415 --> 50:11.119
there's What's in the lunchbox is all I'm going to have. So either
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eat it or don't eat it. There's no other choice, you know? Yeah. And you
50:14.952 --> 50:19.186
have the ability to enforce that across the board. Oh man.
50:19.523 --> 50:22.811
Nope. My kids are like, mom, I want this. And I'm like, okay, but sometimes
50:23.311 --> 50:25.216
we don't have it. And I'm like, we don't have that. And then they go,
50:25.232 --> 50:28.745
can you buy that for me? And I'm like, yes, but right now it doesn't
50:29.245 --> 50:33.315
exist. Yeah. So have what you're going to have. And yeah.
50:34.133 --> 50:37.583
You know, Zoe is only 12 months. So I'm here, I am, you know,
50:37.823 --> 50:40.695
I do know these things work as far as like, these are recommendations I would
50:41.195 --> 50:43.888
give to a parent if they came into a session and then I apply them
50:44.144 --> 50:47.080
at home and I'm like, ooh, they're working amazing. Look at this.
50:47.754 --> 50:50.096
Work and home are about measuring up.
50:50.642 --> 50:54.364
And then maybe Zoe will be, I'll be doing all the right things and
50:54.412 --> 50:56.914
she'll just, and then I'll be like, oh, well, I'll have to, I'll have to
50:56.931 --> 51:00.525
do a new episode. And I'll be like, well, I was— A year from now,
51:00.766 --> 51:04.411
we will check in where you're like, humbled again.
51:04.539 --> 51:07.783
But, um, no, generally those are like, those are my,
51:08.473 --> 51:11.749
my recommendations of like, try not to have grazing so
51:12.249 --> 51:15.666
that you're building that appetite, hunger, fullness cycle. So they come to
51:15.699 --> 51:19.167
a meal, you're gonna try something new if you're starving. You might try
51:19.667 --> 51:22.410
something new if you're starving. You're not if you're full, you're just gonna eat your
51:22.426 --> 51:26.216
favorites. So like, that is one. Try your best
51:26.716 --> 51:30.214
to be like, this is what's being served. Like, and, and, you know, plan ahead,
51:30.230 --> 51:33.441
like put at least one or two things that, you know, they'll eat, but don't
51:33.941 --> 51:36.380
give into that, like getting something else out. Um,
51:37.777 --> 51:41.438
no, those are perfect. And I feel like because
51:41.454 --> 51:43.975
you are my best friend, I could sit here and talk to you for hours
51:44.475 --> 51:47.717
and hours and hours, but I'm not going to make you do that. Um,
51:48.038 --> 51:51.233
so I just, I was going to ask for like a main tip in
51:51.410 --> 51:54.493
closing or a biggest takeaway, but I feel like food-wise you just said
51:54.541 --> 51:58.519
that. So is there Anything else that I,
51:58.968 --> 52:03.055
we can, should close on or anything else that we didn't cover?
52:03.921 --> 52:08.298
I think basically just kind of trust
52:08.330 --> 52:11.985
your gut. If you feel like something's wrong, if you feel like something's off,
52:12.113 --> 52:15.399
like my philosophy is like, why not have it looked at
52:15.899 --> 52:18.654
by the person that that's their, their expertise?
52:19.102 --> 52:22.213
So, you know, you have concerns about motor. You know,
52:22.438 --> 52:25.071
ask for that PT eval. If you have concerns about language,
52:25.569 --> 52:28.299
ask for the speech eval. Um, and you know, you,
52:28.700 --> 52:31.590
you could talk to your pediatrician about it, but, um, you know,
52:32.168 --> 52:35.621
you know, like try to find that intuition that I feel
52:36.121 --> 52:39.410
like is hard for us to have because there's, you know, social media, there's all
52:39.910 --> 52:43.167
these experts out there. But you know, if you're worried about it, just, just get
52:43.667 --> 52:46.957
that reassurance from someone that is in that field, you know?
52:48.849 --> 52:52.297
Well, I love you. You're the best. I'm so grateful that you exist
52:52.797 --> 52:56.515
for so many reasons. So I will link everything
52:56.563 --> 52:57.975
about you below.
52:59.354 --> 53:02.754
And yeah, go back to your babies. Thank you. Thank you.
53:02.802 --> 53:05.849
Thank you for listening, for joining today. I'm so happy
53:05.865 --> 53:09.554
to have you. If you liked this episode or any of the episodes
53:09.634 --> 53:13.659
before, please consider rating and reviewing the podcast or
53:13.724 --> 53:16.033
sending the episode to a friend who it might help.
53:17.348 --> 53:21.025
For important takeaways that you don't want to forget, I write a
53:21.525 --> 53:24.927
little recap on Substack along with other articles about motherhood,
53:24.959 --> 53:27.977
marriage, spirituality, everything that falls in between.
53:28.491 --> 53:31.718
So you can head there to Soul Love with Sam,
53:32.264 --> 53:35.812
same as my Instagram, and subscribe. And I'll
53:36.312 --> 53:37.338
see you next week. Thank you.