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It's 1985, give or take
You're in a church basement: folding chairs, wood paneling,
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a plate of cookies, and a guest speaker standing beside a turntable.
He is about to play a rock record backward to prove that the devil is talking to you.
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Some of you don't have to
picture. You were there. In the
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80s, that same fear spread from
records and dungeons and dragons
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to movies, and just about
anything adults didn't
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understand. The scary part
wasn't that people thought that
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devil might be hiding everywhere.
It was how many of them were
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sure they had found him.
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Welcome to the Gen X archives
podcast, the podcast for
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00:00:40,149 --> 00:00:43,069
Generation X history news and
pop culture. I'm your host
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Pitfall Gary. If you were a kid
in the 80s, there's a pretty
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good chance that something you
liked was deemed dangerous.
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Heavy metal could lead you to
Satan. Dungeons and Dragons
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could pull you into the occult.
Horror movies were corrupting
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your brain. Hidden messages were
buried in records waiting to get
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into your subconscious. And
somewhere out there, according
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to the news reports, Satanic
cults were targeting children.
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It sounds ridiculous now, but at
the time, a lot of people took
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it seriously. What became known
as a Satanic panic grew out of a
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real fear about child abuse,
missing children's drugs,
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suicide, and a culture that
seemed to be changing faster
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than a lot of adults could keep
up with. Those fears eventually
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got wrapped together with rock
music, fantasy games, horror
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movies, even daycare centers and
rumors of a vast underground
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satanic conspiracy. And if you
were growing up in the middle of
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it, you probably encountered
some version of the panic, even
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if nobody around you ever called
it that. And if you have a story
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about something you were banned
from, a game, music, a movie or
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any of those church basement
warnings that never quite left
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your brain, I want to hear about
it. Send your story over to
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podcast at GENXARCHIVES.COM, or
leave us a message on the
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Voicemail line 720-722-1066.
Also, all the show notes and
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sources for this episode are
going to be at JANXARCHIGES.
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COM/3, number 3. So grab a
folding chair and let's see if
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the devil made us do it. Before
we get into the daycare trials
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and backmasking, it'll be good
to remember what the country
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felt like at the time all of
this really got started. The
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satanic panic didn't just appear
one morning because someone found a
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Judas Priest album out under a kid's
bed. There was already a lot of
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fear floating around. We were
coming out of the 70s, a time of
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political upheaval and cultural
uncertainty. The academic term
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for the satanic panic is
actually a moral panic.
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Sociologist Stanley Cohen used
it back in the early 70s when he
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was writing about the British
press freaking out over the mods
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and the rockers fighting each
other. Basically a moral panic
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happens when there's this real
concern and then the fear
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surrounding will grow as much
bigger than the evidence
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supports. The news repeats it,
experts explain it, politicians
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talk about it and then your
neighbor tells you what happened
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to someone they know. Pretty
soon, everybody has heard some
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version of the story and they're
hearing it over and over again
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until it starts to feel like the
truth. And in the late 70s and
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00:03:04,584 --> 00:03:08,134
early 80s were almost built for
that. For starters, America was
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finally beginning to talk
seriously about child abuse. For
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generations, kids have been hurt
and nobody wanted to talk about
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it. Families kept it quiet.
Institutions protected
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themselves. Adults didn't always
believe children. But by the 70s
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and 80s, that was starting to
change. Once people started
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understanding that terrible
things could happen to children
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behind closed doors, sometimes
the hands of adults who look
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completely normal, they changed
away parents looked at the world.
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At the same time, the family
dynamic was changing. More
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mothers were working. More
families needed two incomes.
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Divorces were more common. So
daycare was becoming a normal
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part of life for millions of
families. That meant more
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parents were trusting people
outside the family with their
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children all day. And for a lot
of families, that was still
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relatively new and it created a
lot of anxiety. Now most daycare
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workers were just doing their
jobs. But once stories of abuse
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started appearing in the news,
those ordinary worries became
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much easier to turn into
something darker. We were also
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at a moment when the country
started becoming more aware of
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things that could go wrong and
nothing drove that home more
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missing children. Ethan Patz
disappeared in New York in 1979.
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Adam Walsh was abducted from a
department store in Florida in
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1981 and was later found
murdered. In my home state,
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Johnny Gosch was kidnapped in
1982 while delivering newspapers.
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And he was never seen again. The
stories were showing up
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everywhere. Then the missing
kids started showing up on
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milk-cartons. In 1983, NBC aired
Adam, the TV movie about Adam
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Walsh and it ended with a
picture of real missing children.
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Ronald Reagan declared a
National Missing Children's Day,
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Congress passed new laws dealing
with missing children. Parents
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were getting the message from
every direction. And people
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heard enormous numbers thrown
around about children being
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kidnapped by strangers. Tens of
thousands of children. But the
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actual number was far less. It
was still terrifying, but it was
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much rarer than the country and
the news led you to believe. most
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missing children cases involved
runaways or custody disputes.
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But that's not what we remember.
We remember the news stories in
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the kid on the milk carton. And
once parents became convinced
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that predators could be anywhere,
it wasn't a huge leap to believe
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they might be organized. And
then add in religion and the
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culture wars. The moral majority
was formed in 1979, and that
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gave evangelical Christianity a
much bigger political and
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cultural voice. There are fights
over school sex, music,
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television, and what people saw
as the decline of traditional
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values. And then MTV shows up.
Heavy metal gets louder and more
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theatrical, horror gets bloodier,
kids are playing games full of
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demons and magic, everything has
skulls on it. I mean, for a kid,
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that was just a Tuesday. But for
some parents, it looked like
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something had gone seriously
wrong. And for a lot of
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Christians, Satan wasn't just a
figure of speech, he was real.
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Fear moved easily through
churches because it traveled
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through people you already
trusted. A speaker would come
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through town, there'd be a
seminar or a special Sunday
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night program. Before long,
you'd hear the same story from
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another church, another parent
or somebody on television. And
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television was more than happy
to spread it. Local news, talk
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shows, religious broadcasts, and
tabloid television, all have an
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appetite for stories like this.
Your teenager likes loud music
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isn't much of a headline. But
your teenager's music may be
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recruiting him into a satanic
cult, is a lot more interesting.
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Now you've got frightened
parents, endangered children,
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secret rituals, hidden symbols,
and a villain nobody can see.
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Television knows exactly what to
do with that. So by the
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beginning of the 80s, the pieces
were in place. Child abuse was
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finally being taken seriously.
Parents were anxious about the
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people caring for their children.
Missing kids were dominating the
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news. Churches and TV
evangelists were warning that
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the culture was moving into
dangerous directions and the
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media had learned that fear got
attention. People didn't wake up
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one morning and randomly decide
Satan was hiding in the
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neighborhood daycare. The
country had been building toward
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that kind of fear for years.
What it needed was a story that
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tied everything together. And in
1980, it got one. It first
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arrived in the form of a book,
Michelle remembers, published in
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1980. It was written by a
Canadian psychiatrist
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Lawrence-Pasder and his patient
Michelle Smith. According to the
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book, Michelle had recovered
memories and therapy of things
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that supposedly happened to her
when she was five years old in
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British Columbia, months of
ritual abuse, satanic ceremonies,
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murder, and eventually an
appearance by Satan himself. The
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book became a bestseller and
Pasner was invited to speak to
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police officers, therapists, and
social workers. But when
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journalists and researchers
started looking at all the
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extraordinary claims, they
couldn't verify any of the story
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as it had been written. The
problem wasn't simply that
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people believed one's
sensational book, though. It was
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the book that gave them a way to
explain almost anything that
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came afterwards. Once it was
published in a bestseller, the
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book had already done its damage.
It gave the panic a template. A
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person, usually a child, had
buried memories. A trusted
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expert helps unlock them. The
abuse expands from one person to
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a ritual group, then to a hidden
network, and because the network
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is secret and powerful, the
absence of evidence is explained
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away. If you say, "I can't find
the evidence," the answer
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becomes, "Of course you can't,
they're that good at hiding it."
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If a child says nothing happened,
that can be interpreted as a
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repressed trauma. The theory
starts to explain everything,
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including the facts that should
challenge it. The story spread
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because it gave therapists and
police officers, ministers, and
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television producers a common
language to talk about. A
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strange comment from a child. A
behavior change, a weird drawing
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or an interest in dark imagery
could all be interpreted through
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the same lens. This was also the
era when recovered memory
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therapy was getting a lot of
attention. Some therapists used
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hypnosis, guided imagery, and
repeated questioning to uncover
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memories they believed have been
buried by trauma. The trouble is
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memory doesn't work quite like
that. It's not a recording you
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can rewind and play back. It can
be influenced by the way
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questions are asked and by what
someone expects to find. That
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becomes important when the
people being questioned are
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children. Certainly there were
real crimes during that time.
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Ricky Kasso's 1984 murder case
in New York was surrounded by
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drugs and a cult talk. Richard
Ramirez, the night stocker
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famously displayed a pentagram
on his hand in court. Every time
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something like that appeared on
the news, you can hear somebody
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saying, "See?" I told you. But a
murderer using a pentagram is
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evidence of a nationwide satanic
conspiracy and with the template
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ready and a country already on
edge, the story moved from a
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book to a preschool. Manhattan
Beach, California, the beach
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town south of Los Angeles. The
McMartin preschool had been
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there for years. A family
business run by Virginia
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McMartin, her daughter Peggy
McMartin Buckey, and Peggy's son
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Ray Buckey and other teachers. In
August of 1983, a mother told
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police that her two-year-old son
had been abused by Ray Buckey.
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Police opened an investigation,
then they sent a letter to
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roughly 200 families of current
and former students telling them
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their child might have been
victims and asked them to
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00:10:13,812 --> 00:10:16,332
question their children. Think
about getting that letter as a
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00:10:16,332 --> 00:10:18,752
parent. The police aren't
warning you that something might
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00:10:18,752 --> 00:10:21,432
be happening somewhere and
they're telling you it may have
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happened to your child. From
that point on, every strange
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00:10:24,952 --> 00:10:28,092
answer, every behavior change,
every half-understood thing your
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kid says is going to sound
different. The children were
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00:10:31,132 --> 00:10:34,232
sent to Children's Institute
International for interviews and
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00:10:34,232 --> 00:10:36,492
experts later criticized how
some of those interviews were
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00:10:36,902 --> 00:10:40,252
conducted. Very young children
were questioned repeatedly.
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Interviews used puppets and
anatomically correct dolls. Some
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questions were leading. Children
who denied that something
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happened would be questioned
again and again or told that
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other children had already
talked. After repeated
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questioning, some of the stories
became extraordinary. Secret
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rooms, tunnels under the school,
teachers who could fly, animals
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being killed, witches and
cemeteries, investigators were
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unable to verify any of the
claims about hidden spaces or
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00:11:05,832 --> 00:11:10,792
ritual activity. But in 1983 and
'84, that wasn't the story. The
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00:11:10,792 --> 00:11:14,532
story was, believe the children.
For a long time, children who
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tried to disclose abuse had been
ignored or dismissed. Nobody
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wanted to make that mistake
again. The problem is that
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believing children and
interviewing children properly
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aren't the same thing. Young
children can be suggestible,
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especially when they're
questioned repeatedly or given
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signals about what answers an
adult expects. That's not the
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00:11:32,497 --> 00:11:35,497
kid's lying. It's exactly why the
adult asking the question needs
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to be careful. And then local TV
picked up on the story and then
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it went national. Seven people
were eventually ordered to stand
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trial. Charges against five of
them were dropped, leaving Peggy
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McMartin Buckey and Ray Buckey.
Ray spent years in jail while
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the case moved through the court
system and the trial became one
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of the longest and most
expensive criminal proceedings
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00:11:54,457 --> 00:11:59,108
in American history. In January
1990, Peggy McMartin Buckey was
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00:11:59,108 --> 00:12:02,517
acquitted on every charge
against her. Ray Buckey was
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00:12:02,517 --> 00:12:05,477
acquitted on most charges while
the jury was deadlocked on the
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00:12:05,477 --> 00:12:09,586
remaining charges. Prosecutors
tried him again and that jury
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00:12:09,586 --> 00:12:12,826
came back deadlocked. At that
point, the district attorney
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00:12:12,826 --> 00:12:17,221
decided there would not be a
third trial. After roughly seven
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00:12:17,221 --> 00:12:20,181
years of accusations,
investigations, arrests, and
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00:12:20,181 --> 00:12:24,933
trials, nobody in McMartin case
was ever convicted of a crime. I
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00:12:24,933 --> 00:12:27,493
don't think the takeaway from
McMartin is that children lie or
222
00:12:27,493 --> 00:12:30,633
that abuse and daycare doesn't
happen. Those parents believe
223
00:12:30,633 --> 00:12:32,873
they were protecting their
children, but fear can come from
224
00:12:32,873 --> 00:12:35,973
a perfectly understandable place
and still lead people somewhere
225
00:12:35,973 --> 00:12:39,138
terrible. The children were
questioned again and again.
226
00:12:39,138 --> 00:12:42,138
Families were torn apart. The
accused lost years of their
227
00:12:42,138 --> 00:12:45,558
lives, money, and reputations.
And the more sensational these
228
00:12:45,558 --> 00:12:48,508
claims became, the harder it was
to separate real evidence from
229
00:12:48,908 --> 00:12:51,518
everything that had grown up
around it. Protecting children
230
00:12:51,518 --> 00:12:55,038
requires taking them seriously.
It also requires careful
231
00:12:55,038 --> 00:12:58,358
interviewing, good evidence, and
the discipline not to turn fear
232
00:12:58,358 --> 00:13:02,692
into proof. McMartin wasn't
alone, though. Similar cases
233
00:13:02,692 --> 00:13:05,952
appeared around the country,
different towns, different names,
234
00:13:05,952 --> 00:13:09,792
but often the same pattern. An
accusation repeated interviews
235
00:13:09,792 --> 00:13:13,402
increasingly extraordinary
claims, enormous news coverage,
236
00:13:13,402 --> 00:13:17,012
and years of legal battles. In
some cases, people spent years
237
00:13:17,012 --> 00:13:20,112
in prison before being released
or having their convictions
238
00:13:20,112 --> 00:13:23,533
overturned. So how does
something like this spread from
239
00:13:23,533 --> 00:13:27,413
a handful of stories into a
national panic? A one-big reason
240
00:13:27,413 --> 00:13:30,213
is the warnings weren't only
coming from tabloids and rumors.
241
00:13:30,213 --> 00:13:33,113
They were coming from people who
sounded like authorities.
242
00:13:33,113 --> 00:13:35,893
Therapists who had read the
books. Social workers who had
243
00:13:36,023 --> 00:13:39,733
gone to workshops. Police
officers who attended training
244
00:13:39,733 --> 00:13:43,903
seminars on occult crime.
Ministers running anti-cult
245
00:13:43,903 --> 00:13:46,883
ministry self-styled cult
experts with warning lists and
246
00:13:46,883 --> 00:13:49,943
impressive sounding titles.
Seminars taught people to look
247
00:13:49,943 --> 00:13:53,353
for pentagrams, inverted crosses,
black clothing, heavy metal,
248
00:13:53,643 --> 00:13:56,243
fantasy games, horror,
fascinations with death, and
249
00:13:56,243 --> 00:13:59,776
interest in the occult. Now if
you hold that list up to your
250
00:13:59,776 --> 00:14:04,616
average teenage boy in 1985,
black clothes check, listens to
251
00:14:04,616 --> 00:14:09,396
heavy metal, check, plays D&D,
check, watches horror movies,
252
00:14:09,396 --> 00:14:14,220
check. That isn't a cult. It's a
sophomore. And that was the
253
00:14:14,220 --> 00:14:17,540
problem. If your warning signs
describe half the teenagers in
254
00:14:17,540 --> 00:14:20,660
America, they aren't very useful
as warning signs. You've just
255
00:14:20,660 --> 00:14:25,285
made normal teenage behavior
look suspicious. But fear also
256
00:14:25,285 --> 00:14:28,495
became a business. Books by
supposedly former Satanist,
257
00:14:28,755 --> 00:14:31,605
church seminars, pamphlets, and
speaking tours were running
258
00:14:31,605 --> 00:14:35,541
across the country. In 1988,
Saintin's underground published
259
00:14:35,541 --> 00:14:38,461
in their name Lauren Stratford
was marketed as a true account
260
00:14:38,461 --> 00:14:42,461
of ritual abuse. Christian
journalists later investigated
261
00:14:42,461 --> 00:14:45,081
claims and found serious
problems with the entire story.
262
00:14:45,371 --> 00:14:47,901
But by then the book had sold
plenty of copies and the
263
00:14:47,901 --> 00:14:50,721
interviews were already out
there. The scary story had
264
00:14:50,721 --> 00:14:54,061
already done its work. The
correction came later. One of
265
00:14:54,061 --> 00:14:57,121
the people pushing back from
inside law enforcement was FBI
266
00:14:57,121 --> 00:15:00,601
agent Kenneth Lannin. He had
spent years working child sexual
267
00:15:00,601 --> 00:15:03,361
abuse cases and took these
allegations serious enough to
268
00:15:03,361 --> 00:15:05,981
investigate them. The problem
was the evidence wasn't matching
269
00:15:05,981 --> 00:15:10,601
the size of the claims. In 1992
he published a guide for
270
00:15:10,601 --> 00:15:13,621
investigators looking into
allegations of ritual abuse. His
271
00:15:13,621 --> 00:15:16,961
point was simple, take the
allegations seriously,
272
00:15:16,961 --> 00:15:19,801
investigate the crime, follow
the evidence, but don't start
273
00:15:19,801 --> 00:15:21,911
with the assumption that a
satanic cult must be involved
274
00:15:22,711 --> 00:15:26,584
and then make everything fit
that conclusion. By the early
275
00:15:26,584 --> 00:15:29,504
90's investigators had spent
years looking for the vast
276
00:15:29,504 --> 00:15:32,344
network people had been warning
us about and they hadn't found
277
00:15:32,344 --> 00:15:36,484
anything. But in 1988, nobody
was ready to hear that yet. In
278
00:15:36,484 --> 00:15:40,064
October of 1988, Geraldo Rivera
gave the panic one of the
279
00:15:40,064 --> 00:15:43,924
biggest stages with the prime
time NBC special called devil
280
00:15:43,924 --> 00:15:47,584
worship exposing Satan's
underground, and that's a great
281
00:15:47,584 --> 00:15:50,804
title. It doesn't ask, is there
a satanic underground? It
282
00:15:50,804 --> 00:15:54,144
doesn't say we have some
questions about satinism. Nope,
283
00:15:54,144 --> 00:15:58,164
Geraldo is exposing it. The
special presented allegations of
284
00:15:58,164 --> 00:16:02,184
ritual abuse, law enforcement
experts, occult symbols, claims
285
00:16:02,184 --> 00:16:05,324
of organized satanic activity to
the national audience.
286
00:16:25,555 --> 00:16:29,045
Whether a satanic exists is a
matter of belief, but we are
287
00:16:29,045 --> 00:16:33,145
certain that satanism exists to
some it's a religion, to others
288
00:16:33,145 --> 00:16:38,305
it's the practice of evil in the
devil's name. It exists and it's
289
00:16:38,305 --> 00:16:41,445
flourishing. Members of our
studio audience tonight will
290
00:16:41,445 --> 00:16:45,685
attest to that. They are friends
and foes of satanism. Devil
291
00:16:45,685 --> 00:16:50,705
worshipers and law enforcers,
experts and victims. They'll
292
00:16:50,705 --> 00:16:54,755
help us understand this force
that exalts evil and darkness.
293
00:16:55,385 --> 00:16:59,325
We'll be asking, why? Why does
it exist? And why does it appeal
294
00:16:59,325 --> 00:17:03,245
to so many vulnerable people,
especially the young? Now, the
295
00:17:03,245 --> 00:17:05,865
very young and the
impressionable should definitely
296
00:17:05,865 --> 00:17:09,925
not be watching this program
tonight. This is not a Halloween
297
00:17:09,925 --> 00:17:13,765
fable. This is a real life
horror story and it will give
298
00:17:13,765 --> 00:17:18,065
small children bad dreams. As
for teenagers and their parents,
299
00:17:18,065 --> 00:17:21,095
we hope you are watching,
because it's teenagers who are
300
00:17:21,095 --> 00:17:24,905
most likely to fall under the
spell of this jumble of dark
301
00:17:24,905 --> 00:17:29,985
violent emotions called satanism.
And in some cases to be driven
302
00:17:29,985 --> 00:17:31,075
into committing terrible deeds.
303
00:17:46,511 --> 00:17:52,334
Geraldo on NBC looking concerned.
What else did you need? And you
304
00:17:52,334 --> 00:17:55,674
can't miss the irony. The same
television industry warning
305
00:17:55,674 --> 00:17:58,734
parents about Satan was also
selling us murderers, demons,
306
00:17:59,144 --> 00:18:02,994
monsters, and slashes sometimes
on the same night. Fear was
307
00:18:02,994 --> 00:18:06,734
entertainment and the panic made
fantastic television. Many of
308
00:18:06,734 --> 00:18:09,454
the experts clearly believe what
they were saying. You don't have
309
00:18:09,454 --> 00:18:12,374
to be dishonest to spread
something that isn't true.
310
00:18:12,374 --> 00:18:15,974
Belief and proof are different
things. And for years, the
311
00:18:15,974 --> 00:18:20,389
satanic panic blurred the line.
And then we get into one that
312
00:18:20,389 --> 00:18:24,419
had a lot of teenagers in the
80s. The music. Because sooner
313
00:18:24,419 --> 00:18:27,419
or later, every story about
terrified parents in the 80s
314
00:18:27,419 --> 00:18:31,019
ends up in the record collection.
Heavy metal was practically
315
00:18:31,019 --> 00:18:34,119
designed for this. We look at it
from a parent's point of view,
316
00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:38,579
bands called Slayer, Venom Black
Sabbath, album covers with
317
00:18:38,579 --> 00:18:42,589
demons, skulls, and fire,
concerts with leather, pyro,
318
00:18:42,589 --> 00:18:46,109
techniques, and fake blood.
Lyrics about death, hell, sex,
319
00:18:46,109 --> 00:18:49,119
and drugs. Then somebody started
telling the parents that even
320
00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:52,759
the band names were hidden
messages. RUSH was short for
321
00:18:52,759 --> 00:18:57,399
Raised Under Satan's House. ACDC
became Antichrist Devils
322
00:18:57,399 --> 00:19:00,539
Children. WASP picked up to a
couple of meanings with we are
323
00:19:00,539 --> 00:19:04,099
Satan's people fitting the bill
nicely. And probably the most
324
00:19:04,099 --> 00:19:08,699
famous KISS supposedly meant
knights in Satan's service. None
325
00:19:08,699 --> 00:19:11,279
of that was actually where those
names came from. But once the
326
00:19:11,279 --> 00:19:14,779
rumors started, it didn't matter.
And a lot of what frightened
327
00:19:14,779 --> 00:19:18,739
people about metal was theater.
Dark imagery was fun. It was
328
00:19:18,739 --> 00:19:21,799
shocking. It sold records.
Scaring somebody's parents had
329
00:19:21,799 --> 00:19:25,059
been a reliable teenage
marketing strategy, since Elvis
330
00:19:25,059 --> 00:19:28,738
started shaking in his hips on
the Ed Sullivan show. A guy in
331
00:19:28,738 --> 00:19:31,918
makeup breathing fire isn't
automatically in a secret cult.
332
00:19:31,918 --> 00:19:34,898
He just figured out your mom
hating the album is the best
333
00:19:34,898 --> 00:19:38,252
advertising he could ever get.
Then came the theory that
334
00:19:38,252 --> 00:19:42,371
changed how a lot of parents
listened, backmasking. If you
335
00:19:42,371 --> 00:19:45,151
spent any time in youth groups
in the '80s, there's a good
336
00:19:45,151 --> 00:19:48,411
chance somebody played a record
backward for you. The claim was
337
00:19:48,411 --> 00:19:51,941
that hidden messages praising
Satan could be buried in songs,
338
00:19:51,941 --> 00:19:55,151
and slipping to your unconscious
mind, even if you couldn't
339
00:19:55,151 --> 00:19:58,938
consciously hear them. Lawmakers
held hearings, warning labels
340
00:19:58,938 --> 00:20:02,138
were proposed, preachers played
records backwards for
341
00:20:02,138 --> 00:20:05,718
congregations, and some churches
held record burnings, which
342
00:20:05,718 --> 00:20:07,958
probably did more for heavy
metal sales than anything the
343
00:20:07,958 --> 00:20:11,118
bands themselves could have come
up with. My mom didn't burn
344
00:20:11,118 --> 00:20:14,358
records but she did break every
kiss album my sisters owned and
345
00:20:14,358 --> 00:20:17,038
threw them away. This wasn't
something distant happening on
346
00:20:17,038 --> 00:20:20,618
the news. It made it into
households around America. The
347
00:20:20,618 --> 00:20:24,458
problem with backmasking is the
power of suggestion. Play almost
348
00:20:24,458 --> 00:20:27,858
any sound backward, tell someone
what words to listen for, and
349
00:20:27,858 --> 00:20:31,638
there's a decent chance they'll
hear them. That's suggestion.
350
00:20:31,638 --> 00:20:34,658
Play the gibberish first and
then ask ten people what they
351
00:20:34,658 --> 00:20:37,618
hear, and you'll probably get
ten different answers. Tell them
352
00:20:37,618 --> 00:20:40,518
Satan says something specific,
play it again and suddenly the
353
00:20:40,518 --> 00:20:43,898
room starts hearing Satan. I
mean give me a record of turn
354
00:20:43,898 --> 00:20:46,238
table and a decent imagination,
and I'll get Mötley Crüe to
355
00:20:46,238 --> 00:20:49,238
order you a pizza. The funny
part is that Christian metal was
356
00:20:49,238 --> 00:20:52,818
growing at the same time.
Stryper had the hair, the loud
357
00:20:52,818 --> 00:20:56,038
guitars, the spandex, the bigger
Reena show, except they were
358
00:20:56,038 --> 00:20:59,038
throwing bibles into the crowd.
But if you couldn't hear the
359
00:20:59,038 --> 00:21:01,538
lyrics, good luck figuring out
which side of the spiritual war
360
00:21:01,538 --> 00:21:04,358
you were looking at. But some of
the arguments about Heavy Metal
361
00:21:04,358 --> 00:21:08,578
were tied to real tragedy. In
December of 1985, two young men
362
00:21:08,578 --> 00:21:11,998
in Nevada listened to a Judas
Priest album before attempting
363
00:21:11,998 --> 00:21:15,098
suicide. One of them died that
night, the other survived but
364
00:21:15,098 --> 00:21:18,758
had catastrophic injuries and
died a few years later. Their
365
00:21:18,758 --> 00:21:21,938
families eventually sued Judas
Priest in CBS Records arguing
366
00:21:21,938 --> 00:21:24,818
that the subliminal message
hidden in the music had
367
00:21:24,818 --> 00:21:29,022
contributed to the boy's death.
Now the case went to trial in
368
00:21:29,022 --> 00:21:32,102
1990 and the judge ultimately
ruled that the sound being
369
00:21:32,102 --> 00:21:35,002
interpreted as a hidden command
had not been shown to cause the
370
00:21:35,002 --> 00:21:38,482
young man's actions. Their
families were looking for an
371
00:21:38,482 --> 00:21:41,282
explanation for something
unbearable and Heavy Metal and
372
00:21:41,282 --> 00:21:44,702
the larger panic offered one
that seemed simple, the music
373
00:21:44,702 --> 00:21:48,560
did it. The trial also brought
out problems involving substance
374
00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:52,100
use, family conflict and other
struggles. A record gives you
375
00:21:52,100 --> 00:21:55,020
something you can hold in your
hand and blame, but human pain
376
00:21:55,020 --> 00:21:58,440
isn't that convenient. There is
a much bigger fight about music
377
00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:02,120
in the 80s involving the PMRC,
Senate hearings, Dee Snyder,
378
00:22:02,120 --> 00:22:05,420
Frank Zappa and a warning
sticker. It deserves its own
379
00:22:05,420 --> 00:22:08,440
episode and it's going to get
one later in our lineup. But for
380
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:11,460
today the point is simple. Metal
didn't have to be literally
381
00:22:11,460 --> 00:22:14,840
Satanism to frighten people, it
only had to look and sound like
382
00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:18,840
a world parents didn't recognize.
And for a 13 year old kid having
383
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,660
your parents absolutely hate
your music was practically a
384
00:22:21,660 --> 00:22:26,528
five star review. When parents
weren't blaming music they were
385
00:22:26,528 --> 00:22:30,268
blaming games, specifically
Dungeons and Dragons. By the
386
00:22:30,268 --> 00:22:33,548
early 80s it was everywhere
basements, bedrooms, cafeterias,
387
00:22:33,548 --> 00:22:37,228
college dorms, kids huddled over
graph paper with funny shaped
388
00:22:37,228 --> 00:22:40,858
dice. If you've never played the D&D
it's really a storytelling game.
389
00:22:41,248 --> 00:22:44,868
One person the dungeon master
describes a world, everyone else
390
00:22:44,868 --> 00:22:47,908
plays a character. You decide
what your character does and the
391
00:22:47,908 --> 00:22:51,178
dice help you decide what
happens. It's all set in the
392
00:22:51,178 --> 00:22:54,108
fantasy world filled with places
like the Isle of Dread, The Tomb
393
00:22:54,108 --> 00:22:57,839
of Horrors and The Temple of
Elemental Evil. And if you're
394
00:22:57,839 --> 00:23:00,719
already worried about Satanism
some of the vocabulary doesn't
395
00:23:00,719 --> 00:23:04,959
help. Demons, spells,
necromancers, gods, magic. There
396
00:23:04,959 --> 00:23:07,639
were monsters called demons and
devils right in their books
397
00:23:07,639 --> 00:23:10,999
complete with illustrations. So
imagine you spent Sunday morning
398
00:23:10,999 --> 00:23:13,859
listening to a seminar about
satanism. You walk downstairs
399
00:23:13,859 --> 00:23:16,479
and your kid and his friends are
talking about summoning a demon
400
00:23:16,479 --> 00:23:20,559
lord. To you that's a confession.
To your kid he just needs a roll
401
00:23:20,559 --> 00:23:24,759
of 14 or better. The panic over
D&D got one of its early faces
402
00:23:24,759 --> 00:23:29,379
in 1979 when a young man, James
Egbert, the third disappeared
403
00:23:29,379 --> 00:23:32,739
from Michigan State University.
He was highly intelligent and
404
00:23:32,739 --> 00:23:36,439
deeply troubled. Earlier reports
connect his disappearance to D&D
405
00:23:36,439 --> 00:23:39,139
and suggest he might have gotten
lost in campus steam tunnels
406
00:23:39,139 --> 00:23:42,099
while playing some kind of live
action version of the game. And
407
00:23:42,099 --> 00:23:45,579
the press ran with it. A
brilliant teenager, a fantasy
408
00:23:45,579 --> 00:23:48,159
game, secret tunnels, you
couldn't write a better made for
409
00:23:48,159 --> 00:23:52,590
TV setup. Egbert was found alive
weeks later and later accounts
410
00:23:52,590 --> 00:23:55,190
made clear that D&D was not the
explanation for what he'd been
411
00:23:55,190 --> 00:23:58,250
going through. He died by the
following year, by then though
412
00:23:58,250 --> 00:24:02,950
the association with D&D had
stuck. This D&D was a game that
413
00:24:02,950 --> 00:24:06,400
made kids disappear. Then it
literally became a TV movie.
414
00:24:19,860 --> 00:24:24,670
That Tom Hanks. Before splash or
big or forest gump, America got
415
00:24:24,670 --> 00:24:28,290
Tom Hanks losing his mind over a
role-playing game in a cave.
416
00:24:28,290 --> 00:24:31,110
Hanks played Robbie, a troubled
college student whose friends
417
00:24:31,110 --> 00:24:35,010
play a role-playing game called
Maze's and Monsters. Now Robbie
418
00:24:35,010 --> 00:24:38,110
gradually loses his ability to
separate fantasy from reality
419
00:24:38,110 --> 00:24:41,150
and his friends have to help him.
The movie does make clear that
420
00:24:41,150 --> 00:24:44,030
Robbie already had serious
problems, but the image that
421
00:24:44,030 --> 00:24:47,870
stuck was much simpler. Kid
plays fantasy game, Kid loses
422
00:24:47,870 --> 00:24:52,050
touch with reality. Then came
Patricia Pulling. In 1982, she
423
00:24:52,050 --> 00:24:56,130
lost her 16-year-old son Irving
to suicide. Again, this was
424
00:24:56,130 --> 00:24:59,130
apparent dealing with
unimaginable grief. She became
425
00:24:59,130 --> 00:25:02,550
convinced D&D had contributed to
his death. She filed lawsuits
426
00:25:02,550 --> 00:25:06,390
that were unsuccessful and
founded bad, bothered about
427
00:25:06,390 --> 00:25:10,730
dungeons and dragons. She became
one of the most visible anti-D&D
428
00:25:10,730 --> 00:25:13,870
activists in the country. She
spoke publicly, appeared in the
429
00:25:13,870 --> 00:25:16,670
media and warned that the game
exposed children to Satanism and
430
00:25:16,670 --> 00:25:20,970
the occult. Claims are on the
game expanded. Real spells,
431
00:25:20,970 --> 00:25:24,890
occult practices, murder,
satanic recruitment. The claims
432
00:25:24,890 --> 00:25:27,770
were extraordinary, but the
research didn't support any link
433
00:25:27,770 --> 00:25:31,350
between D&D and any of those
outcomes. The controversy even
434
00:25:31,350 --> 00:25:34,530
affected the game itself. When
the second edition came out in
435
00:25:34,530 --> 00:25:37,390
1989 some of the more
controversial demons and devils
436
00:25:37,390 --> 00:25:40,930
in related material were renamed
or even removed. And here's the
437
00:25:40,930 --> 00:25:44,790
part I love. In 1983, right in
the middle of all the warnings
438
00:25:44,790 --> 00:25:48,810
about D&D, CBS started airing
the dungeons and dragons
439
00:25:48,810 --> 00:25:53,470
Saturday morning cartoons. Six
kids pulled from reality into a
440
00:25:53,470 --> 00:25:56,610
fantasy world, magic weapons,
dungeon master, vanguard, the
441
00:25:56,610 --> 00:26:00,150
whole thing. So CBS warned
America about a role playing
442
00:26:00,150 --> 00:26:03,950
game with Tom Hanks in 1982.
Then they put dungeons and
443
00:26:03,950 --> 00:26:07,190
dragons in front of America's
children on Saturday mornings in
444
00:26:07,190 --> 00:26:12,797
1983. That pretty much sums up
the 80s. Adults saw D&D as
445
00:26:12,797 --> 00:26:15,697
isolating, but it was actually
pretty social. D&D required you
446
00:26:15,697 --> 00:26:19,137
to sit around the table with a
group of people. You had a talk,
447
00:26:19,137 --> 00:26:23,377
cooperate, solve problems, read,
do math, improvise and use your
448
00:26:23,377 --> 00:26:26,197
imagination. If you were the
awkward kid who didn't quite fit
449
00:26:26,197 --> 00:26:29,677
in anywhere else, suddenly you
had a party of people who needed
450
00:26:29,677 --> 00:26:32,617
you because someone had to be
the cleric. The thing Adults
451
00:26:32,617 --> 00:26:35,777
feared was cutting kids off from
the world was for a lot of kids
452
00:26:35,777 --> 00:26:39,708
how they found each other.
There's a bigger question
453
00:26:39,708 --> 00:26:42,588
underneath of all of this. What
did the satanic panic actually
454
00:26:42,588 --> 00:26:46,528
do to the kids living through it?
What did it do to us? And kids
455
00:26:46,528 --> 00:26:50,228
is kind of generic. A six year
old, a 16 year old, and a 19
456
00:26:50,228 --> 00:26:53,908
year old lived through different
versions of the same panic. If
457
00:26:53,908 --> 00:26:56,468
you were little, you may have
absorbed a cloud of fear. You
458
00:26:56,468 --> 00:26:59,528
didn't really understand,
stranger danger. Don't talk to
459
00:26:59,528 --> 00:27:03,508
anyone. Don't take candy, except
for Halloween, I guess. Adults
460
00:27:03,508 --> 00:27:06,942
whispering about something too
awful to explain. Now some of
461
00:27:06,942 --> 00:27:10,102
the safety education that came
out of the era was useful. Kids
462
00:27:10,102 --> 00:27:12,322
learned more about boundaries
and what they should tell
463
00:27:12,322 --> 00:27:15,162
someone if an adult hurt them or
made them uncomfortable. Those
464
00:27:15,162 --> 00:27:18,762
are lessons children need. But
the panic layered something else
465
00:27:18,762 --> 00:27:22,962
over them, the sense that danger
wasn't merely possible. It was
466
00:27:22,962 --> 00:27:25,784
everywhere. If you were a
teenager, the message was a
467
00:27:25,784 --> 00:27:29,795
little different. We don't trust
what you're into. Wear the wrong
468
00:27:29,795 --> 00:27:32,975
t-shirt and a teacher gives you
a look. Listen to the wrong band
469
00:27:32,975 --> 00:27:36,155
and your parents search through
your room. Play the wrong game
470
00:27:36,155 --> 00:27:38,245
and someone starts wondering,
what are you getting involved
471
00:27:38,245 --> 00:27:42,142
with? And a lot of us learned to
hide it, not because we were
472
00:27:42,142 --> 00:27:44,782
doing anything dangerous but
because explaining ourselves was
473
00:27:44,782 --> 00:27:47,962
more trouble than it was worth.
And that was me. I wasn't
474
00:27:47,962 --> 00:27:50,642
allowed to play D&D, wasn't
allowed to listen to heavy metal
475
00:27:50,642 --> 00:27:54,302
music. I wasn't allowed to watch
horror movies, so naturally, I
476
00:27:54,302 --> 00:27:57,402
played D&D, listen to heavy
metal and watch horror movies. I
477
00:27:57,402 --> 00:28:00,322
just did it all behind my
parents back. And that creates
478
00:28:00,322 --> 00:28:03,322
its own problem. The more we
hide things, the less our
479
00:28:03,322 --> 00:28:06,002
parents trust us and the less
they trust us, the more we're
480
00:28:06,002 --> 00:28:09,242
going to keep hiding things.
It's a vicious cycle. And a lot
481
00:28:09,242 --> 00:28:12,202
of us loved our parents. We
loved our churches. But we also
482
00:28:12,202 --> 00:28:14,842
knew that the music, the movies,
and the games we were being
483
00:28:14,842 --> 00:28:18,942
warned about didn't feel evil or
satanic at all. At some point,
484
00:28:18,942 --> 00:28:21,642
we started realizing the world
doesn't get divided neatly into
485
00:28:21,642 --> 00:28:24,982
good and bad as neatly as the
adults told us it was. And for
486
00:28:24,982 --> 00:28:27,782
some people, the consequences
went far beyond hiding an album
487
00:28:27,782 --> 00:28:31,092
from mom. People were accused of
crimes. Families were destroyed.
488
00:28:31,702 --> 00:28:34,522
Children went through terrifying
interviews. Real abuse cases
489
00:28:34,522 --> 00:28:38,262
became tangled up in sensational
claims. There was real damage
490
00:28:38,262 --> 00:28:40,522
underneath the goofy stories
about backwards records and
491
00:28:40,522 --> 00:28:43,722
20-sided dice. But there's
another piece of the Gen X
492
00:28:43,722 --> 00:28:46,362
experience here. We built
communities around the things
493
00:28:46,362 --> 00:28:49,362
adults told us were dangerous.
If someone called you a devil
494
00:28:49,362 --> 00:28:51,822
worshipper because you listened
to metal, you found other
495
00:28:51,822 --> 00:28:55,282
metalheads. If someone told you
that D&D was dangerous, you went
496
00:28:55,282 --> 00:28:58,762
downstairs with your friends and
built worlds. If horror movies
497
00:28:58,762 --> 00:29:01,702
were supposedly rotting in our
brain, we found people who knew
498
00:29:01,702 --> 00:29:06,082
Tom Savini's name. Some started
bands, made Zines, some became
499
00:29:06,082 --> 00:29:09,202
artists, writers, filmmakers,
and game designers. That wasn't
500
00:29:09,202 --> 00:29:12,182
the benefit of the panic. It was
what young people did in
501
00:29:12,182 --> 00:29:16,406
response to it. The stigma
became part of the identity and
502
00:29:16,406 --> 00:29:19,166
communities got stronger because
the people inside them had been
503
00:29:19,166 --> 00:29:22,766
told over and over that they
were the outsiders. And maybe
504
00:29:22,766 --> 00:29:26,306
the biggest lesson was even
simpler. Adults could be wrong.
505
00:29:26,306 --> 00:29:31,658
Not casually wrong. confidently,
publicly, and sincerely wrong.
506
00:29:32,196 --> 00:29:35,256
The expert on television could
be wrong. The guy giving the
507
00:29:35,256 --> 00:29:39,433
seminar could be wrong. The
newspaper could be wrong. Fear
508
00:29:39,433 --> 00:29:42,533
can sound a lot like certainty
when you're a kid. Learning the
509
00:29:42,533 --> 00:29:46,854
difference was a pretty useful
Gen X survival skill. So how did
510
00:29:46,854 --> 00:29:50,334
it all end? Not with some big
televised correction. Nobody
511
00:29:50,334 --> 00:29:53,214
came on the news one night and
said, "Okay, everybody, turns
512
00:29:53,214 --> 00:29:57,487
out there wasn't a giant satanic
conspiracy. My bad." It just
513
00:29:57,487 --> 00:30:01,576
started falling apart slowly a
little bit at a time. Cases
514
00:30:01,576 --> 00:30:05,476
collapsed. Convictions were
overturned. Researchers
515
00:30:05,476 --> 00:30:08,596
challenged some recovered memory
practices. Investigators like
516
00:30:08,596 --> 00:30:11,356
Kenneth Laning kept asking for
evidence of the vast networks
517
00:30:11,356 --> 00:30:15,016
being described and the evidence
never showed up. By the early
518
00:30:15,016 --> 00:30:17,796
90s, the cultural tide was
turning and the wildest
519
00:30:17,796 --> 00:30:21,496
allegations gradually faded from
mainstream coverage.
520
00:30:21,496 --> 00:30:24,736
Unfortunately, the damage didn't
fade with them. Some useful
521
00:30:24,736 --> 00:30:28,516
lessons did survive. Child abuse
and investigation became more
522
00:30:28,516 --> 00:30:31,816
careful about their interviewing.
A lot of us got immediate
523
00:30:31,816 --> 00:30:35,016
literacy less in the hard way.
Who is telling you this? How do
524
00:30:35,016 --> 00:30:37,776
they know? What is the evidence?
And the question that probably
525
00:30:37,776 --> 00:30:40,713
should have been asked a lot
more in the 80s? Are we sure?
526
00:30:42,032 --> 00:30:44,832
Meanwhile, the supposedly
dangerous culture won. Metal
527
00:30:44,832 --> 00:30:48,552
survived, whore survived.
Dungeon and Dragons more than
528
00:30:48,552 --> 00:30:51,812
survived. It's mainstream now.
Celebrities play it. People
529
00:30:51,812 --> 00:30:55,672
stream campaigns to enormous
audiences. Stranger Things built
530
00:30:55,672 --> 00:30:58,492
one of the biggest television
shows in the last decade around
531
00:30:58,492 --> 00:31:01,452
kids playing D&D and the
Demogorgon became a pop culture
532
00:31:02,282 --> 00:31:05,122
monster all over again. There
are probably parents buying
533
00:31:05,122 --> 00:31:08,502
Demogorgon toys for their kids
who had been told 35 years ago
534
00:31:08,502 --> 00:31:11,739
that the game was satanic. But
the satanic panic wasn't
535
00:31:11,739 --> 00:31:15,019
interesting only because people
believed some wild things in the
536
00:31:15,019 --> 00:31:18,479
80s. It's interesting because
you can see how the machinery
537
00:31:18,479 --> 00:31:21,699
works. Starting with something
real, child abuse, missing
538
00:31:21,699 --> 00:31:25,219
childrens, teenagers, struggling,
parents scared by culture
539
00:31:25,219 --> 00:31:28,379
changing faster than they can
understand. Then offer one
540
00:31:28,349 --> 00:31:31,639
explanation that connects
everything. Give that threat a
541
00:31:31,639 --> 00:31:35,719
face. Find experts who confirm
it. Put it on television and
542
00:31:35,719 --> 00:31:38,559
repeat it until everyone has
heard the same story. And
543
00:31:38,559 --> 00:31:41,159
eventually the story everybody
has heard starts getting
544
00:31:41,159 --> 00:31:44,786
mistaken for the truth. Today, a
rumor doesn't need Geraldo
545
00:31:44,786 --> 00:31:47,566
Rivera and two hours of NBC
primetime. It doesn't even need
546
00:31:47,566 --> 00:31:51,236
a church basement. It just needs
social media. The machinery is
547
00:31:51,236 --> 00:31:55,196
faster now but the human part
hasn't changed. Fear,
548
00:31:55,196 --> 00:31:58,056
uncertainty, the desire for a
simple explanation and the need
549
00:31:58,056 --> 00:32:01,576
for somebody to blame. America
had a legitimate reason to worry
550
00:32:01,576 --> 00:32:05,276
about kids. The mistake wasn't
caring too much about them. The
551
00:32:05,276 --> 00:32:08,183
mistake was letting the fear
decide what the evidence meant.
552
00:32:09,430 --> 00:32:12,670
And in the middle of it all were
the kids. Us sitting in the
553
00:32:12,670 --> 00:32:15,610
folding chairs, rolling 20 sided
dice, listening to records we
554
00:32:15,610 --> 00:32:18,570
weren't supposed to own, keeping
it cassette hidden somewhere our
555
00:32:18,570 --> 00:32:21,250
parents would never find it. And
wondering how something that
556
00:32:21,250 --> 00:32:24,470
seemed perfectly normal to us
could look so terrifying to them.
557
00:32:25,252 --> 00:32:28,672
Now we're all adults, which is a
little disturbing all by itself.
558
00:32:29,461 --> 00:32:31,881
We're the ones looking at
whatever our kids are watching,
559
00:32:31,881 --> 00:32:34,221
listening to, playing or doing
online wondering what the heck
560
00:32:34,221 --> 00:32:37,731
it is. So maybe the thing to
remember is what it felt like
561
00:32:37,691 --> 00:32:40,641
when someone looked at our music
and our games and decided they
562
00:32:40,641 --> 00:32:43,841
understood us without ever
really asking. Every generation
563
00:32:43,841 --> 00:32:46,441
finds something about the next
one it doesn't understand. That
564
00:32:46,441 --> 00:32:48,981
doesn't mean there isn't
anything worth worrying about.
565
00:32:48,981 --> 00:32:51,617
It means being afraid of
something doesn't make it true.
566
00:32:52,432 --> 00:32:58,176
And after all, we turned out
okay. Mostly. That's going to
567
00:32:58,176 --> 00:33:01,336
end our at the satanic panic.
One of the strangest, saddest
568
00:33:01,336 --> 00:33:04,516
and most revealing stretches of
our childhood. And we talked a
569
00:33:04,516 --> 00:33:07,896
little bit about suicide in this
episode and that subject is
570
00:33:07,896 --> 00:33:11,376
personal for me. So if you or
someone you know is struggling,
571
00:33:11,376 --> 00:33:14,976
you can call or text 988 in
the United States anytime day or
572
00:33:14,976 --> 00:33:19,447
night and get help. If you have
a story about a banned album,
573
00:33:19,447 --> 00:33:21,627
the game you weren't allowed to
play or one of those church
574
00:33:21,627 --> 00:33:23,987
basement warnings, you still
remember I'd love to hear it.
575
00:33:24,297 --> 00:33:27,927
Send it over to
podcast@genxarchives.com. Or
576
00:33:27,927 --> 00:33:33,487
call the voicemail line 720 722
1066. Especially the church
577
00:33:33,487 --> 00:33:35,647
basement stories. I know you
have some of them and those are
578
00:33:35,647 --> 00:33:38,627
always the good ones. Now the
full source list for this
579
00:33:38,627 --> 00:33:42,859
episode is in the show notes at
genxarchives.com/3. If
580
00:33:42,859 --> 00:33:45,759
you're enjoying the podcast, the
easiest way to support it is to
581
00:33:45,759 --> 00:33:48,299
tell someone about it. If you're
listening on your phone, send
582
00:33:48,299 --> 00:33:50,919
them the episode right now. So
thanks for listening and thanks
583
00:33:50,919 --> 00:33:53,769
for continued support of the
Gen X Archives podcast,
584
00:33:53,769 --> 00:33:55,869
preserving analog memories in
the digital world.
00:00:00,245 --> 00:00:02,725
It's 1985, give or take
You're in a church basement: folding chairs, wood paneling,
2
00:00:02,725 --> 00:00:03,135
a plate of cookies, and a guest speaker standing beside a turntable.
He is about to play a rock record backward to prove that the devil is talking to you.
3
00:00:14,509 --> 00:00:17,169
Some of you don't have to
picture. You were there. In the
4
00:00:17,169 --> 00:00:20,329
80s, that same fear spread from
records and dungeons and dragons
5
00:00:20,329 --> 00:00:22,849
to movies, and just about
anything adults didn't
6
00:00:22,849 --> 00:00:25,229
understand. The scary part
wasn't that people thought that
7
00:00:25,229 --> 00:00:28,369
devil might be hiding everywhere.
It was how many of them were
8
00:00:28,369 --> 00:00:30,439
sure they had found him.
9
00:00:37,069 --> 00:00:40,149
Welcome to the Gen X archives
podcast, the podcast for
10
00:00:40,149 --> 00:00:43,069
Generation X history news and
pop culture. I'm your host
11
00:00:43,069 --> 00:00:45,889
Pitfall Gary. If you were a kid
in the 80s, there's a pretty
12
00:00:45,889 --> 00:00:49,109
good chance that something you
liked was deemed dangerous.
13
00:00:49,109 --> 00:00:52,229
Heavy metal could lead you to
Satan. Dungeons and Dragons
14
00:00:52,229 --> 00:00:55,289
could pull you into the occult.
Horror movies were corrupting
15
00:00:55,289 --> 00:00:58,669
your brain. Hidden messages were
buried in records waiting to get
16
00:00:58,669 --> 00:01:01,709
into your subconscious. And
somewhere out there, according
17
00:01:01,709 --> 00:01:05,629
to the news reports, Satanic
cults were targeting children.
18
00:01:05,629 --> 00:01:08,969
It sounds ridiculous now, but at
the time, a lot of people took
19
00:01:08,969 --> 00:01:13,089
it seriously. What became known
as a Satanic panic grew out of a
20
00:01:13,089 --> 00:01:16,149
real fear about child abuse,
missing children's drugs,
21
00:01:16,519 --> 00:01:18,949
suicide, and a culture that
seemed to be changing faster
22
00:01:18,949 --> 00:01:22,309
than a lot of adults could keep
up with. Those fears eventually
23
00:01:22,309 --> 00:01:25,969
got wrapped together with rock
music, fantasy games, horror
24
00:01:25,969 --> 00:01:29,369
movies, even daycare centers and
rumors of a vast underground
25
00:01:29,369 --> 00:01:33,230
satanic conspiracy. And if you
were growing up in the middle of
26
00:01:33,230 --> 00:01:36,210
it, you probably encountered
some version of the panic, even
27
00:01:36,210 --> 00:01:39,776
if nobody around you ever called
it that. And if you have a story
28
00:01:39,776 --> 00:01:43,576
about something you were banned
from, a game, music, a movie or
29
00:01:43,576 --> 00:01:45,836
any of those church basement
warnings that never quite left
30
00:01:45,836 --> 00:01:48,756
your brain, I want to hear about
it. Send your story over to
31
00:01:48,756 --> 00:01:52,456
podcast at GENXARCHIVES.COM, or
leave us a message on the
32
00:01:52,456 --> 00:01:59,556
Voicemail line 720-722-1066.
Also, all the show notes and
33
00:01:59,556 --> 00:02:02,016
sources for this episode are
going to be at JANXARCHIGES.
34
00:02:02,016 --> 00:02:07,806
COM/3, number 3. So grab a
folding chair and let's see if
35
00:02:07,806 --> 00:02:12,194
the devil made us do it. Before
we get into the daycare trials
36
00:02:12,194 --> 00:02:14,914
and backmasking, it'll be good
to remember what the country
37
00:02:14,914 --> 00:02:18,334
felt like at the time all of
this really got started. The
38
00:02:18,334 --> 00:02:21,454
satanic panic didn't just appear
one morning because someone found a
39
00:02:21,454 --> 00:02:24,434
Judas Priest album out under a kid's
bed. There was already a lot of
40
00:02:24,434 --> 00:02:27,754
fear floating around. We were
coming out of the 70s, a time of
41
00:02:27,754 --> 00:02:31,294
political upheaval and cultural
uncertainty. The academic term
42
00:02:31,294 --> 00:02:33,574
for the satanic panic is
actually a moral panic.
43
00:02:33,964 --> 00:02:37,174
Sociologist Stanley Cohen used
it back in the early 70s when he
44
00:02:37,174 --> 00:02:39,914
was writing about the British
press freaking out over the mods
45
00:02:39,914 --> 00:02:43,474
and the rockers fighting each
other. Basically a moral panic
46
00:02:43,474 --> 00:02:46,184
happens when there's this real
concern and then the fear
47
00:02:46,184 --> 00:02:49,354
surrounding will grow as much
bigger than the evidence
48
00:02:49,354 --> 00:02:53,014
supports. The news repeats it,
experts explain it, politicians
49
00:02:53,014 --> 00:02:55,214
talk about it and then your
neighbor tells you what happened
50
00:02:55,214 --> 00:02:58,354
to someone they know. Pretty
soon, everybody has heard some
51
00:02:58,354 --> 00:03:01,094
version of the story and they're
hearing it over and over again
52
00:03:01,094 --> 00:03:04,624
until it starts to feel like the
truth. And in the late 70s and
53
00:03:04,584 --> 00:03:08,134
early 80s were almost built for
that. For starters, America was
54
00:03:08,134 --> 00:03:11,614
finally beginning to talk
seriously about child abuse. For
55
00:03:11,614 --> 00:03:14,594
generations, kids have been hurt
and nobody wanted to talk about
56
00:03:14,594 --> 00:03:17,534
it. Families kept it quiet.
Institutions protected
57
00:03:17,534 --> 00:03:20,974
themselves. Adults didn't always
believe children. But by the 70s
58
00:03:20,974 --> 00:03:23,504
and 80s, that was starting to
change. Once people started
59
00:03:23,984 --> 00:03:25,934
understanding that terrible
things could happen to children
60
00:03:25,934 --> 00:03:29,314
behind closed doors, sometimes
the hands of adults who look
61
00:03:29,314 --> 00:03:31,824
completely normal, they changed
away parents looked at the world.
62
00:03:32,374 --> 00:03:35,634
At the same time, the family
dynamic was changing. More
63
00:03:35,634 --> 00:03:38,334
mothers were working. More
families needed two incomes.
64
00:03:38,334 --> 00:03:41,234
Divorces were more common. So
daycare was becoming a normal
65
00:03:41,234 --> 00:03:44,474
part of life for millions of
families. That meant more
66
00:03:44,474 --> 00:03:46,994
parents were trusting people
outside the family with their
67
00:03:46,994 --> 00:03:50,004
children all day. And for a lot
of families, that was still
68
00:03:50,004 --> 00:03:54,354
relatively new and it created a
lot of anxiety. Now most daycare
69
00:03:54,354 --> 00:03:57,214
workers were just doing their
jobs. But once stories of abuse
70
00:03:57,214 --> 00:03:59,784
started appearing in the news,
those ordinary worries became
71
00:04:00,014 --> 00:04:03,692
much easier to turn into
something darker. We were also
72
00:04:03,692 --> 00:04:06,212
at a moment when the country
started becoming more aware of
73
00:04:06,212 --> 00:04:09,362
things that could go wrong and
nothing drove that home more
74
00:04:09,382 --> 00:04:14,556
missing children. Ethan Patz
disappeared in New York in 1979.
75
00:04:14,556 --> 00:04:18,476
Adam Walsh was abducted from a
department store in Florida in
76
00:04:18,476 --> 00:04:21,146
1981 and was later found
murdered. In my home state,
77
00:04:21,116 --> 00:04:24,906
Johnny Gosch was kidnapped in
1982 while delivering newspapers.
78
00:04:24,906 --> 00:04:27,676
And he was never seen again. The
stories were showing up
79
00:04:27,676 --> 00:04:30,425
everywhere. Then the missing
kids started showing up on
80
00:04:30,425 --> 00:04:36,523
milk-cartons. In 1983, NBC aired
Adam, the TV movie about Adam
81
00:04:36,523 --> 00:04:39,563
Walsh and it ended with a
picture of real missing children.
82
00:04:39,563 --> 00:04:42,033
Ronald Reagan declared a
National Missing Children's Day,
83
00:04:42,033 --> 00:04:46,772
Congress passed new laws dealing
with missing children. Parents
84
00:04:46,772 --> 00:04:49,872
were getting the message from
every direction. And people
85
00:04:49,872 --> 00:04:52,062
heard enormous numbers thrown
around about children being
86
00:04:52,062 --> 00:04:55,892
kidnapped by strangers. Tens of
thousands of children. But the
87
00:04:55,892 --> 00:04:59,712
actual number was far less. It
was still terrifying, but it was
88
00:04:59,712 --> 00:05:03,673
much rarer than the country and
the news led you to believe. most
89
00:05:03,673 --> 00:05:07,113
missing children cases involved
runaways or custody disputes.
90
00:05:07,113 --> 00:05:10,453
But that's not what we remember.
We remember the news stories in
91
00:05:10,453 --> 00:05:13,143
the kid on the milk carton. And
once parents became convinced
92
00:05:13,583 --> 00:05:17,333
that predators could be anywhere,
it wasn't a huge leap to believe
93
00:05:17,333 --> 00:05:21,138
they might be organized. And
then add in religion and the
94
00:05:21,138 --> 00:05:25,778
culture wars. The moral majority
was formed in 1979, and that
95
00:05:25,778 --> 00:05:29,018
gave evangelical Christianity a
much bigger political and
96
00:05:29,018 --> 00:05:33,168
cultural voice. There are fights
over school sex, music,
97
00:05:33,168 --> 00:05:35,678
television, and what people saw
as the decline of traditional
98
00:05:35,678 --> 00:05:39,958
values. And then MTV shows up.
Heavy metal gets louder and more
99
00:05:39,958 --> 00:05:43,478
theatrical, horror gets bloodier,
kids are playing games full of
100
00:05:43,478 --> 00:05:47,498
demons and magic, everything has
skulls on it. I mean, for a kid,
101
00:05:47,498 --> 00:05:50,558
that was just a Tuesday. But for
some parents, it looked like
102
00:05:50,558 --> 00:05:53,758
something had gone seriously
wrong. And for a lot of
103
00:05:53,758 --> 00:05:57,738
Christians, Satan wasn't just a
figure of speech, he was real.
104
00:05:57,738 --> 00:05:59,878
Fear moved easily through
churches because it traveled
105
00:05:59,878 --> 00:06:02,078
through people you already
trusted. A speaker would come
106
00:06:02,078 --> 00:06:04,938
through town, there'd be a
seminar or a special Sunday
107
00:06:04,938 --> 00:06:07,938
night program. Before long,
you'd hear the same story from
108
00:06:07,938 --> 00:06:11,198
another church, another parent
or somebody on television. And
109
00:06:11,198 --> 00:06:14,818
television was more than happy
to spread it. Local news, talk
110
00:06:14,818 --> 00:06:18,138
shows, religious broadcasts, and
tabloid television, all have an
111
00:06:18,138 --> 00:06:20,888
appetite for stories like this.
Your teenager likes loud music
112
00:06:21,368 --> 00:06:25,196
isn't much of a headline. But
your teenager's music may be
113
00:06:25,196 --> 00:06:28,556
recruiting him into a satanic
cult, is a lot more interesting.
114
00:06:28,556 --> 00:06:30,906
Now you've got frightened
parents, endangered children,
115
00:06:31,196 --> 00:06:35,236
secret rituals, hidden symbols,
and a villain nobody can see.
116
00:06:35,236 --> 00:06:38,290
Television knows exactly what to
do with that. So by the
117
00:06:38,290 --> 00:06:42,010
beginning of the 80s, the pieces
were in place. Child abuse was
118
00:06:42,010 --> 00:06:45,654
finally being taken seriously.
Parents were anxious about the
119
00:06:45,654 --> 00:06:49,174
people caring for their children.
Missing kids were dominating the
120
00:06:49,174 --> 00:06:51,814
news. Churches and TV
evangelists were warning that
121
00:06:51,814 --> 00:06:54,614
the culture was moving into
dangerous directions and the
122
00:06:54,614 --> 00:06:58,273
media had learned that fear got
attention. People didn't wake up
123
00:06:58,273 --> 00:07:01,573
one morning and randomly decide
Satan was hiding in the
124
00:07:01,573 --> 00:07:03,713
neighborhood daycare. The
country had been building toward
125
00:07:03,713 --> 00:07:06,973
that kind of fear for years.
What it needed was a story that
126
00:07:06,973 --> 00:07:12,465
tied everything together. And in
1980, it got one. It first
127
00:07:12,465 --> 00:07:15,295
arrived in the form of a book,
Michelle remembers, published in
128
00:07:15,975 --> 00:07:19,223
1980. It was written by a
Canadian psychiatrist
129
00:07:19,223 --> 00:07:22,103
Lawrence-Pasder and his patient
Michelle Smith. According to the
130
00:07:22,103 --> 00:07:24,813
book, Michelle had recovered
memories and therapy of things
131
00:07:24,813 --> 00:07:27,403
that supposedly happened to her
when she was five years old in
132
00:07:27,403 --> 00:07:31,443
British Columbia, months of
ritual abuse, satanic ceremonies,
133
00:07:31,443 --> 00:07:35,044
murder, and eventually an
appearance by Satan himself. The
134
00:07:35,044 --> 00:07:38,144
book became a bestseller and
Pasner was invited to speak to
135
00:07:38,144 --> 00:07:41,544
police officers, therapists, and
social workers. But when
136
00:07:41,544 --> 00:07:43,744
journalists and researchers
started looking at all the
137
00:07:43,744 --> 00:07:46,284
extraordinary claims, they
couldn't verify any of the story
138
00:07:46,284 --> 00:07:49,181
as it had been written. The
problem wasn't simply that
139
00:07:49,181 --> 00:07:51,871
people believed one's
sensational book, though. It was
140
00:07:51,871 --> 00:07:54,731
the book that gave them a way to
explain almost anything that
141
00:07:54,731 --> 00:07:58,111
came afterwards. Once it was
published in a bestseller, the
142
00:07:58,111 --> 00:08:01,671
book had already done its damage.
It gave the panic a template. A
143
00:08:01,671 --> 00:08:04,711
person, usually a child, had
buried memories. A trusted
144
00:08:04,711 --> 00:08:09,165
expert helps unlock them. The
abuse expands from one person to
145
00:08:09,165 --> 00:08:13,505
a ritual group, then to a hidden
network, and because the network
146
00:08:13,505 --> 00:08:16,585
is secret and powerful, the
absence of evidence is explained
147
00:08:16,585 --> 00:08:20,849
away. If you say, "I can't find
the evidence," the answer
148
00:08:20,849 --> 00:08:23,753
becomes, "Of course you can't,
they're that good at hiding it."
149
00:08:24,283 --> 00:08:27,133
If a child says nothing happened,
that can be interpreted as a
150
00:08:27,273 --> 00:08:31,423
repressed trauma. The theory
starts to explain everything,
151
00:08:31,423 --> 00:08:34,777
including the facts that should
challenge it. The story spread
152
00:08:34,777 --> 00:08:38,047
because it gave therapists and
police officers, ministers, and
153
00:08:38,047 --> 00:08:41,337
television producers a common
language to talk about. A
154
00:08:41,337 --> 00:08:44,977
strange comment from a child. A
behavior change, a weird drawing
155
00:08:44,977 --> 00:08:47,617
or an interest in dark imagery
could all be interpreted through
156
00:08:47,617 --> 00:08:51,479
the same lens. This was also the
era when recovered memory
157
00:08:51,479 --> 00:08:54,319
therapy was getting a lot of
attention. Some therapists used
158
00:08:54,319 --> 00:08:57,379
hypnosis, guided imagery, and
repeated questioning to uncover
159
00:08:57,379 --> 00:09:02,053
memories they believed have been
buried by trauma. The trouble is
160
00:09:02,053 --> 00:09:04,353
memory doesn't work quite like
that. It's not a recording you
161
00:09:04,353 --> 00:09:07,673
can rewind and play back. It can
be influenced by the way
162
00:09:07,673 --> 00:09:11,253
questions are asked and by what
someone expects to find. That
163
00:09:11,253 --> 00:09:14,233
becomes important when the
people being questioned are
164
00:09:14,233 --> 00:09:17,936
children. Certainly there were
real crimes during that time.
165
00:09:17,936 --> 00:09:21,396
Ricky Kasso's 1984 murder case
in New York was surrounded by
166
00:09:21,396 --> 00:09:24,799
drugs and a cult talk. Richard
Ramirez, the night stocker
167
00:09:25,579 --> 00:09:29,389
famously displayed a pentagram
on his hand in court. Every time
168
00:09:29,389 --> 00:09:31,529
something like that appeared on
the news, you can hear somebody
169
00:09:31,529 --> 00:09:35,499
saying, "See?" I told you. But a
murderer using a pentagram is
170
00:09:35,519 --> 00:09:40,289
evidence of a nationwide satanic
conspiracy and with the template
171
00:09:40,289 --> 00:09:43,269
ready and a country already on
edge, the story moved from a
172
00:09:43,269 --> 00:09:48,132
book to a preschool. Manhattan
Beach, California, the beach
173
00:09:48,132 --> 00:09:51,092
town south of Los Angeles. The
McMartin preschool had been
174
00:09:51,092 --> 00:09:53,592
there for years. A family
business run by Virginia
175
00:09:53,592 --> 00:09:57,272
McMartin, her daughter Peggy
McMartin Buckey, and Peggy's son
176
00:09:57,272 --> 00:10:02,152
Ray Buckey and other teachers. In
August of 1983, a mother told
177
00:10:02,152 --> 00:10:05,002
police that her two-year-old son
had been abused by Ray Buckey.
178
00:10:05,402 --> 00:10:08,452
Police opened an investigation,
then they sent a letter to
179
00:10:08,452 --> 00:10:11,412
roughly 200 families of current
and former students telling them
180
00:10:11,412 --> 00:10:13,812
their child might have been
victims and asked them to
181
00:10:13,812 --> 00:10:16,332
question their children. Think
about getting that letter as a
182
00:10:16,332 --> 00:10:18,752
parent. The police aren't
warning you that something might
183
00:10:18,752 --> 00:10:21,432
be happening somewhere and
they're telling you it may have
184
00:10:21,432 --> 00:10:24,952
happened to your child. From
that point on, every strange
185
00:10:24,952 --> 00:10:28,092
answer, every behavior change,
every half-understood thing your
186
00:10:28,092 --> 00:10:31,132
kid says is going to sound
different. The children were
187
00:10:31,132 --> 00:10:34,232
sent to Children's Institute
International for interviews and
188
00:10:34,232 --> 00:10:36,492
experts later criticized how
some of those interviews were
189
00:10:36,902 --> 00:10:40,252
conducted. Very young children
were questioned repeatedly.
190
00:10:40,252 --> 00:10:44,052
Interviews used puppets and
anatomically correct dolls. Some
191
00:10:44,052 --> 00:10:46,552
questions were leading. Children
who denied that something
192
00:10:46,552 --> 00:10:48,772
happened would be questioned
again and again or told that
193
00:10:48,772 --> 00:10:51,852
other children had already
talked. After repeated
194
00:10:51,852 --> 00:10:55,392
questioning, some of the stories
became extraordinary. Secret
195
00:10:55,392 --> 00:10:58,872
rooms, tunnels under the school,
teachers who could fly, animals
196
00:10:58,872 --> 00:11:02,952
being killed, witches and
cemeteries, investigators were
197
00:11:02,952 --> 00:11:05,832
unable to verify any of the
claims about hidden spaces or
198
00:11:05,832 --> 00:11:10,792
ritual activity. But in 1983 and
'84, that wasn't the story. The
199
00:11:10,792 --> 00:11:14,532
story was, believe the children.
For a long time, children who
200
00:11:14,532 --> 00:11:17,592
tried to disclose abuse had been
ignored or dismissed. Nobody
201
00:11:17,592 --> 00:11:21,207
wanted to make that mistake
again. The problem is that
202
00:11:21,207 --> 00:11:23,517
believing children and
interviewing children properly
203
00:11:23,517 --> 00:11:26,937
aren't the same thing. Young
children can be suggestible,
204
00:11:26,937 --> 00:11:29,457
especially when they're
questioned repeatedly or given
205
00:11:29,457 --> 00:11:32,497
signals about what answers an
adult expects. That's not the
206
00:11:32,497 --> 00:11:35,497
kid's lying. It's exactly why the
adult asking the question needs
207
00:11:35,587 --> 00:11:39,017
to be careful. And then local TV
picked up on the story and then
208
00:11:39,017 --> 00:11:42,617
it went national. Seven people
were eventually ordered to stand
209
00:11:42,617 --> 00:11:45,827
trial. Charges against five of
them were dropped, leaving Peggy
210
00:11:45,967 --> 00:11:49,677
McMartin Buckey and Ray Buckey.
Ray spent years in jail while
211
00:11:49,677 --> 00:11:52,057
the case moved through the court
system and the trial became one
212
00:11:52,057 --> 00:11:54,457
of the longest and most
expensive criminal proceedings
213
00:11:54,457 --> 00:11:59,108
in American history. In January
1990, Peggy McMartin Buckey was
214
00:11:59,108 --> 00:12:02,517
acquitted on every charge
against her. Ray Buckey was
215
00:12:02,517 --> 00:12:05,477
acquitted on most charges while
the jury was deadlocked on the
216
00:12:05,477 --> 00:12:09,586
remaining charges. Prosecutors
tried him again and that jury
217
00:12:09,586 --> 00:12:12,826
came back deadlocked. At that
point, the district attorney
218
00:12:12,826 --> 00:12:17,221
decided there would not be a
third trial. After roughly seven
219
00:12:17,221 --> 00:12:20,181
years of accusations,
investigations, arrests, and
220
00:12:20,181 --> 00:12:24,933
trials, nobody in McMartin case
was ever convicted of a crime. I
221
00:12:24,933 --> 00:12:27,493
don't think the takeaway from
McMartin is that children lie or
222
00:12:27,493 --> 00:12:30,633
that abuse and daycare doesn't
happen. Those parents believe
223
00:12:30,633 --> 00:12:32,873
they were protecting their
children, but fear can come from
224
00:12:32,873 --> 00:12:35,973
a perfectly understandable place
and still lead people somewhere
225
00:12:35,973 --> 00:12:39,138
terrible. The children were
questioned again and again.
226
00:12:39,138 --> 00:12:42,138
Families were torn apart. The
accused lost years of their
227
00:12:42,138 --> 00:12:45,558
lives, money, and reputations.
And the more sensational these
228
00:12:45,558 --> 00:12:48,508
claims became, the harder it was
to separate real evidence from
229
00:12:48,908 --> 00:12:51,518
everything that had grown up
around it. Protecting children
230
00:12:51,518 --> 00:12:55,038
requires taking them seriously.
It also requires careful
231
00:12:55,038 --> 00:12:58,358
interviewing, good evidence, and
the discipline not to turn fear
232
00:12:58,358 --> 00:13:02,692
into proof. McMartin wasn't
alone, though. Similar cases
233
00:13:02,692 --> 00:13:05,952
appeared around the country,
different towns, different names,
234
00:13:05,952 --> 00:13:09,792
but often the same pattern. An
accusation repeated interviews
235
00:13:09,792 --> 00:13:13,402
increasingly extraordinary
claims, enormous news coverage,
236
00:13:13,402 --> 00:13:17,012
and years of legal battles. In
some cases, people spent years
237
00:13:17,012 --> 00:13:20,112
in prison before being released
or having their convictions
238
00:13:20,112 --> 00:13:23,533
overturned. So how does
something like this spread from
239
00:13:23,533 --> 00:13:27,413
a handful of stories into a
national panic? A one-big reason
240
00:13:27,413 --> 00:13:30,213
is the warnings weren't only
coming from tabloids and rumors.
241
00:13:30,213 --> 00:13:33,113
They were coming from people who
sounded like authorities.
242
00:13:33,113 --> 00:13:35,893
Therapists who had read the
books. Social workers who had
243
00:13:36,023 --> 00:13:39,733
gone to workshops. Police
officers who attended training
244
00:13:39,733 --> 00:13:43,903
seminars on occult crime.
Ministers running anti-cult
245
00:13:43,903 --> 00:13:46,883
ministry self-styled cult
experts with warning lists and
246
00:13:46,883 --> 00:13:49,943
impressive sounding titles.
Seminars taught people to look
247
00:13:49,943 --> 00:13:53,353
for pentagrams, inverted crosses,
black clothing, heavy metal,
248
00:13:53,643 --> 00:13:56,243
fantasy games, horror,
fascinations with death, and
249
00:13:56,243 --> 00:13:59,776
interest in the occult. Now if
you hold that list up to your
250
00:13:59,776 --> 00:14:04,616
average teenage boy in 1985,
black clothes check, listens to
251
00:14:04,616 --> 00:14:09,396
heavy metal, check, plays D&D,
check, watches horror movies,
252
00:14:09,396 --> 00:14:14,220
check. That isn't a cult. It's a
sophomore. And that was the
253
00:14:14,220 --> 00:14:17,540
problem. If your warning signs
describe half the teenagers in
254
00:14:17,540 --> 00:14:20,660
America, they aren't very useful
as warning signs. You've just
255
00:14:20,660 --> 00:14:25,285
made normal teenage behavior
look suspicious. But fear also
256
00:14:25,285 --> 00:14:28,495
became a business. Books by
supposedly former Satanist,
257
00:14:28,755 --> 00:14:31,605
church seminars, pamphlets, and
speaking tours were running
258
00:14:31,605 --> 00:14:35,541
across the country. In 1988,
Saintin's underground published
259
00:14:35,541 --> 00:14:38,461
in their name Lauren Stratford
was marketed as a true account
260
00:14:38,461 --> 00:14:42,461
of ritual abuse. Christian
journalists later investigated
261
00:14:42,461 --> 00:14:45,081
claims and found serious
problems with the entire story.
262
00:14:45,371 --> 00:14:47,901
But by then the book had sold
plenty of copies and the
263
00:14:47,901 --> 00:14:50,721
interviews were already out
there. The scary story had
264
00:14:50,721 --> 00:14:54,061
already done its work. The
correction came later. One of
265
00:14:54,061 --> 00:14:57,121
the people pushing back from
inside law enforcement was FBI
266
00:14:57,121 --> 00:15:00,601
agent Kenneth Lannin. He had
spent years working child sexual
267
00:15:00,601 --> 00:15:03,361
abuse cases and took these
allegations serious enough to
268
00:15:03,361 --> 00:15:05,981
investigate them. The problem
was the evidence wasn't matching
269
00:15:05,981 --> 00:15:10,601
the size of the claims. In 1992
he published a guide for
270
00:15:10,601 --> 00:15:13,621
investigators looking into
allegations of ritual abuse. His
271
00:15:13,621 --> 00:15:16,961
point was simple, take the
allegations seriously,
272
00:15:16,961 --> 00:15:19,801
investigate the crime, follow
the evidence, but don't start
273
00:15:19,801 --> 00:15:21,911
with the assumption that a
satanic cult must be involved
274
00:15:22,711 --> 00:15:26,584
and then make everything fit
that conclusion. By the early
275
00:15:26,584 --> 00:15:29,504
90's investigators had spent
years looking for the vast
276
00:15:29,504 --> 00:15:32,344
network people had been warning
us about and they hadn't found
277
00:15:32,344 --> 00:15:36,484
anything. But in 1988, nobody
was ready to hear that yet. In
278
00:15:36,484 --> 00:15:40,064
October of 1988, Geraldo Rivera
gave the panic one of the
279
00:15:40,064 --> 00:15:43,924
biggest stages with the prime
time NBC special called devil
280
00:15:43,924 --> 00:15:47,584
worship exposing Satan's
underground, and that's a great
281
00:15:47,584 --> 00:15:50,804
title. It doesn't ask, is there
a satanic underground? It
282
00:15:50,804 --> 00:15:54,144
doesn't say we have some
questions about satinism. Nope,
283
00:15:54,144 --> 00:15:58,164
Geraldo is exposing it. The
special presented allegations of
284
00:15:58,164 --> 00:16:02,184
ritual abuse, law enforcement
experts, occult symbols, claims
285
00:16:02,184 --> 00:16:05,324
of organized satanic activity to
the national audience.
286
00:16:25,555 --> 00:16:29,045
Whether a satanic exists is a
matter of belief, but we are
287
00:16:29,045 --> 00:16:33,145
certain that satanism exists to
some it's a religion, to others
288
00:16:33,145 --> 00:16:38,305
it's the practice of evil in the
devil's name. It exists and it's
289
00:16:38,305 --> 00:16:41,445
flourishing. Members of our
studio audience tonight will
290
00:16:41,445 --> 00:16:45,685
attest to that. They are friends
and foes of satanism. Devil
291
00:16:45,685 --> 00:16:50,705
worshipers and law enforcers,
experts and victims. They'll
292
00:16:50,705 --> 00:16:54,755
help us understand this force
that exalts evil and darkness.
293
00:16:55,385 --> 00:16:59,325
We'll be asking, why? Why does
it exist? And why does it appeal
294
00:16:59,325 --> 00:17:03,245
to so many vulnerable people,
especially the young? Now, the
295
00:17:03,245 --> 00:17:05,865
very young and the
impressionable should definitely
296
00:17:05,865 --> 00:17:09,925
not be watching this program
tonight. This is not a Halloween
297
00:17:09,925 --> 00:17:13,765
fable. This is a real life
horror story and it will give
298
00:17:13,765 --> 00:17:18,065
small children bad dreams. As
for teenagers and their parents,
299
00:17:18,065 --> 00:17:21,095
we hope you are watching,
because it's teenagers who are
300
00:17:21,095 --> 00:17:24,905
most likely to fall under the
spell of this jumble of dark
301
00:17:24,905 --> 00:17:29,985
violent emotions called satanism.
And in some cases to be driven
302
00:17:29,985 --> 00:17:31,075
into committing terrible deeds.
303
00:17:46,511 --> 00:17:52,334
Geraldo on NBC looking concerned.
What else did you need? And you
304
00:17:52,334 --> 00:17:55,674
can't miss the irony. The same
television industry warning
305
00:17:55,674 --> 00:17:58,734
parents about Satan was also
selling us murderers, demons,
306
00:17:59,144 --> 00:18:02,994
monsters, and slashes sometimes
on the same night. Fear was
307
00:18:02,994 --> 00:18:06,734
entertainment and the panic made
fantastic television. Many of
308
00:18:06,734 --> 00:18:09,454
the experts clearly believe what
they were saying. You don't have
309
00:18:09,454 --> 00:18:12,374
to be dishonest to spread
something that isn't true.
310
00:18:12,374 --> 00:18:15,974
Belief and proof are different
things. And for years, the
311
00:18:15,974 --> 00:18:20,389
satanic panic blurred the line.
And then we get into one that
312
00:18:20,389 --> 00:18:24,419
had a lot of teenagers in the
80s. The music. Because sooner
313
00:18:24,419 --> 00:18:27,419
or later, every story about
terrified parents in the 80s
314
00:18:27,419 --> 00:18:31,019
ends up in the record collection.
Heavy metal was practically
315
00:18:31,019 --> 00:18:34,119
designed for this. We look at it
from a parent's point of view,
316
00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:38,579
bands called Slayer, Venom Black
Sabbath, album covers with
317
00:18:38,579 --> 00:18:42,589
demons, skulls, and fire,
concerts with leather, pyro,
318
00:18:42,589 --> 00:18:46,109
techniques, and fake blood.
Lyrics about death, hell, sex,
319
00:18:46,109 --> 00:18:49,119
and drugs. Then somebody started
telling the parents that even
320
00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:52,759
the band names were hidden
messages. RUSH was short for
321
00:18:52,759 --> 00:18:57,399
Raised Under Satan's House. ACDC
became Antichrist Devils
322
00:18:57,399 --> 00:19:00,539
Children. WASP picked up to a
couple of meanings with we are
323
00:19:00,539 --> 00:19:04,099
Satan's people fitting the bill
nicely. And probably the most
324
00:19:04,099 --> 00:19:08,699
famous KISS supposedly meant
knights in Satan's service. None
325
00:19:08,699 --> 00:19:11,279
of that was actually where those
names came from. But once the
326
00:19:11,279 --> 00:19:14,779
rumors started, it didn't matter.
And a lot of what frightened
327
00:19:14,779 --> 00:19:18,739
people about metal was theater.
Dark imagery was fun. It was
328
00:19:18,739 --> 00:19:21,799
shocking. It sold records.
Scaring somebody's parents had
329
00:19:21,799 --> 00:19:25,059
been a reliable teenage
marketing strategy, since Elvis
330
00:19:25,059 --> 00:19:28,738
started shaking in his hips on
the Ed Sullivan show. A guy in
331
00:19:28,738 --> 00:19:31,918
makeup breathing fire isn't
automatically in a secret cult.
332
00:19:31,918 --> 00:19:34,898
He just figured out your mom
hating the album is the best
333
00:19:34,898 --> 00:19:38,252
advertising he could ever get.
Then came the theory that
334
00:19:38,252 --> 00:19:42,371
changed how a lot of parents
listened, backmasking. If you
335
00:19:42,371 --> 00:19:45,151
spent any time in youth groups
in the '80s, there's a good
336
00:19:45,151 --> 00:19:48,411
chance somebody played a record
backward for you. The claim was
337
00:19:48,411 --> 00:19:51,941
that hidden messages praising
Satan could be buried in songs,
338
00:19:51,941 --> 00:19:55,151
and slipping to your unconscious
mind, even if you couldn't
339
00:19:55,151 --> 00:19:58,938
consciously hear them. Lawmakers
held hearings, warning labels
340
00:19:58,938 --> 00:20:02,138
were proposed, preachers played
records backwards for
341
00:20:02,138 --> 00:20:05,718
congregations, and some churches
held record burnings, which
342
00:20:05,718 --> 00:20:07,958
probably did more for heavy
metal sales than anything the
343
00:20:07,958 --> 00:20:11,118
bands themselves could have come
up with. My mom didn't burn
344
00:20:11,118 --> 00:20:14,358
records but she did break every
kiss album my sisters owned and
345
00:20:14,358 --> 00:20:17,038
threw them away. This wasn't
something distant happening on
346
00:20:17,038 --> 00:20:20,618
the news. It made it into
households around America. The
347
00:20:20,618 --> 00:20:24,458
problem with backmasking is the
power of suggestion. Play almost
348
00:20:24,458 --> 00:20:27,858
any sound backward, tell someone
what words to listen for, and
349
00:20:27,858 --> 00:20:31,638
there's a decent chance they'll
hear them. That's suggestion.
350
00:20:31,638 --> 00:20:34,658
Play the gibberish first and
then ask ten people what they
351
00:20:34,658 --> 00:20:37,618
hear, and you'll probably get
ten different answers. Tell them
352
00:20:37,618 --> 00:20:40,518
Satan says something specific,
play it again and suddenly the
353
00:20:40,518 --> 00:20:43,898
room starts hearing Satan. I
mean give me a record of turn
354
00:20:43,898 --> 00:20:46,238
table and a decent imagination,
and I'll get Mötley Crüe to
355
00:20:46,238 --> 00:20:49,238
order you a pizza. The funny
part is that Christian metal was
356
00:20:49,238 --> 00:20:52,818
growing at the same time.
Stryper had the hair, the loud
357
00:20:52,818 --> 00:20:56,038
guitars, the spandex, the bigger
Reena show, except they were
358
00:20:56,038 --> 00:20:59,038
throwing bibles into the crowd.
But if you couldn't hear the
359
00:20:59,038 --> 00:21:01,538
lyrics, good luck figuring out
which side of the spiritual war
360
00:21:01,538 --> 00:21:04,358
you were looking at. But some of
the arguments about Heavy Metal
361
00:21:04,358 --> 00:21:08,578
were tied to real tragedy. In
December of 1985, two young men
362
00:21:08,578 --> 00:21:11,998
in Nevada listened to a Judas
Priest album before attempting
363
00:21:11,998 --> 00:21:15,098
suicide. One of them died that
night, the other survived but
364
00:21:15,098 --> 00:21:18,758
had catastrophic injuries and
died a few years later. Their
365
00:21:18,758 --> 00:21:21,938
families eventually sued Judas
Priest in CBS Records arguing
366
00:21:21,938 --> 00:21:24,818
that the subliminal message
hidden in the music had
367
00:21:24,818 --> 00:21:29,022
contributed to the boy's death.
Now the case went to trial in
368
00:21:29,022 --> 00:21:32,102
1990 and the judge ultimately
ruled that the sound being
369
00:21:32,102 --> 00:21:35,002
interpreted as a hidden command
had not been shown to cause the
370
00:21:35,002 --> 00:21:38,482
young man's actions. Their
families were looking for an
371
00:21:38,482 --> 00:21:41,282
explanation for something
unbearable and Heavy Metal and
372
00:21:41,282 --> 00:21:44,702
the larger panic offered one
that seemed simple, the music
373
00:21:44,702 --> 00:21:48,560
did it. The trial also brought
out problems involving substance
374
00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:52,100
use, family conflict and other
struggles. A record gives you
375
00:21:52,100 --> 00:21:55,020
something you can hold in your
hand and blame, but human pain
376
00:21:55,020 --> 00:21:58,440
isn't that convenient. There is
a much bigger fight about music
377
00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:02,120
in the 80s involving the PMRC,
Senate hearings, Dee Snyder,
378
00:22:02,120 --> 00:22:05,420
Frank Zappa and a warning
sticker. It deserves its own
379
00:22:05,420 --> 00:22:08,440
episode and it's going to get
one later in our lineup. But for
380
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:11,460
today the point is simple. Metal
didn't have to be literally
381
00:22:11,460 --> 00:22:14,840
Satanism to frighten people, it
only had to look and sound like
382
00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:18,840
a world parents didn't recognize.
And for a 13 year old kid having
383
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,660
your parents absolutely hate
your music was practically a
384
00:22:21,660 --> 00:22:26,528
five star review. When parents
weren't blaming music they were
385
00:22:26,528 --> 00:22:30,268
blaming games, specifically
Dungeons and Dragons. By the
386
00:22:30,268 --> 00:22:33,548
early 80s it was everywhere
basements, bedrooms, cafeterias,
387
00:22:33,548 --> 00:22:37,228
college dorms, kids huddled over
graph paper with funny shaped
388
00:22:37,228 --> 00:22:40,858
dice. If you've never played the D&D
it's really a storytelling game.
389
00:22:41,248 --> 00:22:44,868
One person the dungeon master
describes a world, everyone else
390
00:22:44,868 --> 00:22:47,908
plays a character. You decide
what your character does and the
391
00:22:47,908 --> 00:22:51,178
dice help you decide what
happens. It's all set in the
392
00:22:51,178 --> 00:22:54,108
fantasy world filled with places
like the Isle of Dread, The Tomb
393
00:22:54,108 --> 00:22:57,839
of Horrors and The Temple of
Elemental Evil. And if you're
394
00:22:57,839 --> 00:23:00,719
already worried about Satanism
some of the vocabulary doesn't
395
00:23:00,719 --> 00:23:04,959
help. Demons, spells,
necromancers, gods, magic. There
396
00:23:04,959 --> 00:23:07,639
were monsters called demons and
devils right in their books
397
00:23:07,639 --> 00:23:10,999
complete with illustrations. So
imagine you spent Sunday morning
398
00:23:10,999 --> 00:23:13,859
listening to a seminar about
satanism. You walk downstairs
399
00:23:13,859 --> 00:23:16,479
and your kid and his friends are
talking about summoning a demon
400
00:23:16,479 --> 00:23:20,559
lord. To you that's a confession.
To your kid he just needs a roll
401
00:23:20,559 --> 00:23:24,759
of 14 or better. The panic over
D&D got one of its early faces
402
00:23:24,759 --> 00:23:29,379
in 1979 when a young man, James
Egbert, the third disappeared
403
00:23:29,379 --> 00:23:32,739
from Michigan State University.
He was highly intelligent and
404
00:23:32,739 --> 00:23:36,439
deeply troubled. Earlier reports
connect his disappearance to D&D
405
00:23:36,439 --> 00:23:39,139
and suggest he might have gotten
lost in campus steam tunnels
406
00:23:39,139 --> 00:23:42,099
while playing some kind of live
action version of the game. And
407
00:23:42,099 --> 00:23:45,579
the press ran with it. A
brilliant teenager, a fantasy
408
00:23:45,579 --> 00:23:48,159
game, secret tunnels, you
couldn't write a better made for
409
00:23:48,159 --> 00:23:52,590
TV setup. Egbert was found alive
weeks later and later accounts
410
00:23:52,590 --> 00:23:55,190
made clear that D&D was not the
explanation for what he'd been
411
00:23:55,190 --> 00:23:58,250
going through. He died by the
following year, by then though
412
00:23:58,250 --> 00:24:02,950
the association with D&D had
stuck. This D&D was a game that
413
00:24:02,950 --> 00:24:06,400
made kids disappear. Then it
literally became a TV movie.
414
00:24:19,860 --> 00:24:24,670
That Tom Hanks. Before splash or
big or forest gump, America got
415
00:24:24,670 --> 00:24:28,290
Tom Hanks losing his mind over a
role-playing game in a cave.
416
00:24:28,290 --> 00:24:31,110
Hanks played Robbie, a troubled
college student whose friends
417
00:24:31,110 --> 00:24:35,010
play a role-playing game called
Maze's and Monsters. Now Robbie
418
00:24:35,010 --> 00:24:38,110
gradually loses his ability to
separate fantasy from reality
419
00:24:38,110 --> 00:24:41,150
and his friends have to help him.
The movie does make clear that
420
00:24:41,150 --> 00:24:44,030
Robbie already had serious
problems, but the image that
421
00:24:44,030 --> 00:24:47,870
stuck was much simpler. Kid
plays fantasy game, Kid loses
422
00:24:47,870 --> 00:24:52,050
touch with reality. Then came
Patricia Pulling. In 1982, she
423
00:24:52,050 --> 00:24:56,130
lost her 16-year-old son Irving
to suicide. Again, this was
424
00:24:56,130 --> 00:24:59,130
apparent dealing with
unimaginable grief. She became
425
00:24:59,130 --> 00:25:02,550
convinced D&D had contributed to
his death. She filed lawsuits
426
00:25:02,550 --> 00:25:06,390
that were unsuccessful and
founded bad, bothered about
427
00:25:06,390 --> 00:25:10,730
dungeons and dragons. She became
one of the most visible anti-D&D
428
00:25:10,730 --> 00:25:13,870
activists in the country. She
spoke publicly, appeared in the
429
00:25:13,870 --> 00:25:16,670
media and warned that the game
exposed children to Satanism and
430
00:25:16,670 --> 00:25:20,970
the occult. Claims are on the
game expanded. Real spells,
431
00:25:20,970 --> 00:25:24,890
occult practices, murder,
satanic recruitment. The claims
432
00:25:24,890 --> 00:25:27,770
were extraordinary, but the
research didn't support any link
433
00:25:27,770 --> 00:25:31,350
between D&D and any of those
outcomes. The controversy even
434
00:25:31,350 --> 00:25:34,530
affected the game itself. When
the second edition came out in
435
00:25:34,530 --> 00:25:37,390
1989 some of the more
controversial demons and devils
436
00:25:37,390 --> 00:25:40,930
in related material were renamed
or even removed. And here's the
437
00:25:40,930 --> 00:25:44,790
part I love. In 1983, right in
the middle of all the warnings
438
00:25:44,790 --> 00:25:48,810
about D&D, CBS started airing
the dungeons and dragons
439
00:25:48,810 --> 00:25:53,470
Saturday morning cartoons. Six
kids pulled from reality into a
440
00:25:53,470 --> 00:25:56,610
fantasy world, magic weapons,
dungeon master, vanguard, the
441
00:25:56,610 --> 00:26:00,150
whole thing. So CBS warned
America about a role playing
442
00:26:00,150 --> 00:26:03,950
game with Tom Hanks in 1982.
Then they put dungeons and
443
00:26:03,950 --> 00:26:07,190
dragons in front of America's
children on Saturday mornings in
444
00:26:07,190 --> 00:26:12,797
1983. That pretty much sums up
the 80s. Adults saw D&D as
445
00:26:12,797 --> 00:26:15,697
isolating, but it was actually
pretty social. D&D required you
446
00:26:15,697 --> 00:26:19,137
to sit around the table with a
group of people. You had a talk,
447
00:26:19,137 --> 00:26:23,377
cooperate, solve problems, read,
do math, improvise and use your
448
00:26:23,377 --> 00:26:26,197
imagination. If you were the
awkward kid who didn't quite fit
449
00:26:26,197 --> 00:26:29,677
in anywhere else, suddenly you
had a party of people who needed
450
00:26:29,677 --> 00:26:32,617
you because someone had to be
the cleric. The thing Adults
451
00:26:32,617 --> 00:26:35,777
feared was cutting kids off from
the world was for a lot of kids
452
00:26:35,777 --> 00:26:39,708
how they found each other.
There's a bigger question
453
00:26:39,708 --> 00:26:42,588
underneath of all of this. What
did the satanic panic actually
454
00:26:42,588 --> 00:26:46,528
do to the kids living through it?
What did it do to us? And kids
455
00:26:46,528 --> 00:26:50,228
is kind of generic. A six year
old, a 16 year old, and a 19
456
00:26:50,228 --> 00:26:53,908
year old lived through different
versions of the same panic. If
457
00:26:53,908 --> 00:26:56,468
you were little, you may have
absorbed a cloud of fear. You
458
00:26:56,468 --> 00:26:59,528
didn't really understand,
stranger danger. Don't talk to
459
00:26:59,528 --> 00:27:03,508
anyone. Don't take candy, except
for Halloween, I guess. Adults
460
00:27:03,508 --> 00:27:06,942
whispering about something too
awful to explain. Now some of
461
00:27:06,942 --> 00:27:10,102
the safety education that came
out of the era was useful. Kids
462
00:27:10,102 --> 00:27:12,322
learned more about boundaries
and what they should tell
463
00:27:12,322 --> 00:27:15,162
someone if an adult hurt them or
made them uncomfortable. Those
464
00:27:15,162 --> 00:27:18,762
are lessons children need. But
the panic layered something else
465
00:27:18,762 --> 00:27:22,962
over them, the sense that danger
wasn't merely possible. It was
466
00:27:22,962 --> 00:27:25,784
everywhere. If you were a
teenager, the message was a
467
00:27:25,784 --> 00:27:29,795
little different. We don't trust
what you're into. Wear the wrong
468
00:27:29,795 --> 00:27:32,975
t-shirt and a teacher gives you
a look. Listen to the wrong band
469
00:27:32,975 --> 00:27:36,155
and your parents search through
your room. Play the wrong game
470
00:27:36,155 --> 00:27:38,245
and someone starts wondering,
what are you getting involved
471
00:27:38,245 --> 00:27:42,142
with? And a lot of us learned to
hide it, not because we were
472
00:27:42,142 --> 00:27:44,782
doing anything dangerous but
because explaining ourselves was
473
00:27:44,782 --> 00:27:47,962
more trouble than it was worth.
And that was me. I wasn't
474
00:27:47,962 --> 00:27:50,642
allowed to play D&D, wasn't
allowed to listen to heavy metal
475
00:27:50,642 --> 00:27:54,302
music. I wasn't allowed to watch
horror movies, so naturally, I
476
00:27:54,302 --> 00:27:57,402
played D&D, listen to heavy
metal and watch horror movies. I
477
00:27:57,402 --> 00:28:00,322
just did it all behind my
parents back. And that creates
478
00:28:00,322 --> 00:28:03,322
its own problem. The more we
hide things, the less our
479
00:28:03,322 --> 00:28:06,002
parents trust us and the less
they trust us, the more we're
480
00:28:06,002 --> 00:28:09,242
going to keep hiding things.
It's a vicious cycle. And a lot
481
00:28:09,242 --> 00:28:12,202
of us loved our parents. We
loved our churches. But we also
482
00:28:12,202 --> 00:28:14,842
knew that the music, the movies,
and the games we were being
483
00:28:14,842 --> 00:28:18,942
warned about didn't feel evil or
satanic at all. At some point,
484
00:28:18,942 --> 00:28:21,642
we started realizing the world
doesn't get divided neatly into
485
00:28:21,642 --> 00:28:24,982
good and bad as neatly as the
adults told us it was. And for
486
00:28:24,982 --> 00:28:27,782
some people, the consequences
went far beyond hiding an album
487
00:28:27,782 --> 00:28:31,092
from mom. People were accused of
crimes. Families were destroyed.
488
00:28:31,702 --> 00:28:34,522
Children went through terrifying
interviews. Real abuse cases
489
00:28:34,522 --> 00:28:38,262
became tangled up in sensational
claims. There was real damage
490
00:28:38,262 --> 00:28:40,522
underneath the goofy stories
about backwards records and
491
00:28:40,522 --> 00:28:43,722
20-sided dice. But there's
another piece of the Gen X
492
00:28:43,722 --> 00:28:46,362
experience here. We built
communities around the things
493
00:28:46,362 --> 00:28:49,362
adults told us were dangerous.
If someone called you a devil
494
00:28:49,362 --> 00:28:51,822
worshipper because you listened
to metal, you found other
495
00:28:51,822 --> 00:28:55,282
metalheads. If someone told you
that D&D was dangerous, you went
496
00:28:55,282 --> 00:28:58,762
downstairs with your friends and
built worlds. If horror movies
497
00:28:58,762 --> 00:29:01,702
were supposedly rotting in our
brain, we found people who knew
498
00:29:01,702 --> 00:29:06,082
Tom Savini's name. Some started
bands, made Zines, some became
499
00:29:06,082 --> 00:29:09,202
artists, writers, filmmakers,
and game designers. That wasn't
500
00:29:09,202 --> 00:29:12,182
the benefit of the panic. It was
what young people did in
501
00:29:12,182 --> 00:29:16,406
response to it. The stigma
became part of the identity and
502
00:29:16,406 --> 00:29:19,166
communities got stronger because
the people inside them had been
503
00:29:19,166 --> 00:29:22,766
told over and over that they
were the outsiders. And maybe
504
00:29:22,766 --> 00:29:26,306
the biggest lesson was even
simpler. Adults could be wrong.
505
00:29:26,306 --> 00:29:31,658
Not casually wrong. confidently,
publicly, and sincerely wrong.
506
00:29:32,196 --> 00:29:35,256
The expert on television could
be wrong. The guy giving the
507
00:29:35,256 --> 00:29:39,433
seminar could be wrong. The
newspaper could be wrong. Fear
508
00:29:39,433 --> 00:29:42,533
can sound a lot like certainty
when you're a kid. Learning the
509
00:29:42,533 --> 00:29:46,854
difference was a pretty useful
Gen X survival skill. So how did
510
00:29:46,854 --> 00:29:50,334
it all end? Not with some big
televised correction. Nobody
511
00:29:50,334 --> 00:29:53,214
came on the news one night and
said, "Okay, everybody, turns
512
00:29:53,214 --> 00:29:57,487
out there wasn't a giant satanic
conspiracy. My bad." It just
513
00:29:57,487 --> 00:30:01,576
started falling apart slowly a
little bit at a time. Cases
514
00:30:01,576 --> 00:30:05,476
collapsed. Convictions were
overturned. Researchers
515
00:30:05,476 --> 00:30:08,596
challenged some recovered memory
practices. Investigators like
516
00:30:08,596 --> 00:30:11,356
Kenneth Laning kept asking for
evidence of the vast networks
517
00:30:11,356 --> 00:30:15,016
being described and the evidence
never showed up. By the early
518
00:30:15,016 --> 00:30:17,796
90s, the cultural tide was
turning and the wildest
519
00:30:17,796 --> 00:30:21,496
allegations gradually faded from
mainstream coverage.
520
00:30:21,496 --> 00:30:24,736
Unfortunately, the damage didn't
fade with them. Some useful
521
00:30:24,736 --> 00:30:28,516
lessons did survive. Child abuse
and investigation became more
522
00:30:28,516 --> 00:30:31,816
careful about their interviewing.
A lot of us got immediate
523
00:30:31,816 --> 00:30:35,016
literacy less in the hard way.
Who is telling you this? How do
524
00:30:35,016 --> 00:30:37,776
they know? What is the evidence?
And the question that probably
525
00:30:37,776 --> 00:30:40,713
should have been asked a lot
more in the 80s? Are we sure?
526
00:30:42,032 --> 00:30:44,832
Meanwhile, the supposedly
dangerous culture won. Metal
527
00:30:44,832 --> 00:30:48,552
survived, whore survived.
Dungeon and Dragons more than
528
00:30:48,552 --> 00:30:51,812
survived. It's mainstream now.
Celebrities play it. People
529
00:30:51,812 --> 00:30:55,672
stream campaigns to enormous
audiences. Stranger Things built
530
00:30:55,672 --> 00:30:58,492
one of the biggest television
shows in the last decade around
531
00:30:58,492 --> 00:31:01,452
kids playing D&D and the
Demogorgon became a pop culture
532
00:31:02,282 --> 00:31:05,122
monster all over again. There
are probably parents buying
533
00:31:05,122 --> 00:31:08,502
Demogorgon toys for their kids
who had been told 35 years ago
534
00:31:08,502 --> 00:31:11,739
that the game was satanic. But
the satanic panic wasn't
535
00:31:11,739 --> 00:31:15,019
interesting only because people
believed some wild things in the
536
00:31:15,019 --> 00:31:18,479
80s. It's interesting because
you can see how the machinery
537
00:31:18,479 --> 00:31:21,699
works. Starting with something
real, child abuse, missing
538
00:31:21,699 --> 00:31:25,219
childrens, teenagers, struggling,
parents scared by culture
539
00:31:25,219 --> 00:31:28,379
changing faster than they can
understand. Then offer one
540
00:31:28,349 --> 00:31:31,639
explanation that connects
everything. Give that threat a
541
00:31:31,639 --> 00:31:35,719
face. Find experts who confirm
it. Put it on television and
542
00:31:35,719 --> 00:31:38,559
repeat it until everyone has
heard the same story. And
543
00:31:38,559 --> 00:31:41,159
eventually the story everybody
has heard starts getting
544
00:31:41,159 --> 00:31:44,786
mistaken for the truth. Today, a
rumor doesn't need Geraldo
545
00:31:44,786 --> 00:31:47,566
Rivera and two hours of NBC
primetime. It doesn't even need
546
00:31:47,566 --> 00:31:51,236
a church basement. It just needs
social media. The machinery is
547
00:31:51,236 --> 00:31:55,196
faster now but the human part
hasn't changed. Fear,
548
00:31:55,196 --> 00:31:58,056
uncertainty, the desire for a
simple explanation and the need
549
00:31:58,056 --> 00:32:01,576
for somebody to blame. America
had a legitimate reason to worry
550
00:32:01,576 --> 00:32:05,276
about kids. The mistake wasn't
caring too much about them. The
551
00:32:05,276 --> 00:32:08,183
mistake was letting the fear
decide what the evidence meant.
552
00:32:09,430 --> 00:32:12,670
And in the middle of it all were
the kids. Us sitting in the
553
00:32:12,670 --> 00:32:15,610
folding chairs, rolling 20 sided
dice, listening to records we
554
00:32:15,610 --> 00:32:18,570
weren't supposed to own, keeping
it cassette hidden somewhere our
555
00:32:18,570 --> 00:32:21,250
parents would never find it. And
wondering how something that
556
00:32:21,250 --> 00:32:24,470
seemed perfectly normal to us
could look so terrifying to them.
557
00:32:25,252 --> 00:32:28,672
Now we're all adults, which is a
little disturbing all by itself.
558
00:32:29,461 --> 00:32:31,881
We're the ones looking at
whatever our kids are watching,
559
00:32:31,881 --> 00:32:34,221
listening to, playing or doing
online wondering what the heck
560
00:32:34,221 --> 00:32:37,731
it is. So maybe the thing to
remember is what it felt like
561
00:32:37,691 --> 00:32:40,641
when someone looked at our music
and our games and decided they
562
00:32:40,641 --> 00:32:43,841
understood us without ever
really asking. Every generation
563
00:32:43,841 --> 00:32:46,441
finds something about the next
one it doesn't understand. That
564
00:32:46,441 --> 00:32:48,981
doesn't mean there isn't
anything worth worrying about.
565
00:32:48,981 --> 00:32:51,617
It means being afraid of
something doesn't make it true.
566
00:32:52,432 --> 00:32:58,176
And after all, we turned out
okay. Mostly. That's going to
567
00:32:58,176 --> 00:33:01,336
end our at the satanic panic.
One of the strangest, saddest
568
00:33:01,336 --> 00:33:04,516
and most revealing stretches of
our childhood. And we talked a
569
00:33:04,516 --> 00:33:07,896
little bit about suicide in this
episode and that subject is
570
00:33:07,896 --> 00:33:11,376
personal for me. So if you or
someone you know is struggling,
571
00:33:11,376 --> 00:33:14,976
you can call or text 988 in
the United States anytime day or
572
00:33:14,976 --> 00:33:19,447
night and get help. If you have
a story about a banned album,
573
00:33:19,447 --> 00:33:21,627
the game you weren't allowed to
play or one of those church
574
00:33:21,627 --> 00:33:23,987
basement warnings, you still
remember I'd love to hear it.
575
00:33:24,297 --> 00:33:27,927
Send it over to
podcast@genxarchives.com. Or
576
00:33:27,927 --> 00:33:33,487
call the voicemail line 720 722
1066. Especially the church
577
00:33:33,487 --> 00:33:35,647
basement stories. I know you
have some of them and those are
578
00:33:35,647 --> 00:33:38,627
always the good ones. Now the
full source list for this
579
00:33:38,627 --> 00:33:42,859
episode is in the show notes at
genxarchives.com/3. If
580
00:33:42,859 --> 00:33:45,759
you're enjoying the podcast, the
easiest way to support it is to
581
00:33:45,759 --> 00:33:48,299
tell someone about it. If you're
listening on your phone, send
582
00:33:48,299 --> 00:33:50,919
them the episode right now. So
thanks for listening and thanks
583
00:33:50,919 --> 00:33:53,769
for continued support of the
Gen X Archives podcast,
584
00:33:53,769 --> 00:33:55,869
preserving analog memories in
the digital world.
