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Welcome to PMI's GEMBAfication, the podcast where we explore real stories behind performance improvement, where we bring improvements to where the work is done, and of course the highs and lows that we all experience when we're making those improvements.
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I'm Susanna Clark, I'm your host, I'm managing partner at PMI, and today I'm joined by Fraser Cowe, who is Global Process Experience Business Partner at Tesco.
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I'm glad I got that right.
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Great to have you with me today, Fraser.
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How are you?
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Yeah, very well, Susannah.
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You did get it right, so thank you.
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Pleasure to be here and I look forward to the conversation.
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Absolutely, thank you.
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So before we get started, I wondered if you could just give us a sense of what does CI look like in Tesco?
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Yeah, thanks.
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So Tesco have been rolling out a continuous improvement programme now for over eight years now.
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And I've never seen in my period of being a sort of change, transformation, operational excellence practitioner for 15 years, I've never seen that level of sustainment across any um sort of industry sector before.
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Um so it's testament to the to the central team's sort of just buy-in of and running of the uh relentless pursuit of operational excellence within Tesco.
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Um so it spans four geographies.
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Um, we've got a hub within Bangalore, um, Dundee in Scotland, we've got Waterford in Central Europe, so within our TBS estate.
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Um, and we're now looking to expand that capability of continuous improvement now to the wider part of the business, and when we're first stepping foot into our distribution network in terms of our supply chain.
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So it's a very, very exciting time um here at Tesco, particularly for CI.
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Yeah, great place to be.
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So for today, I wondered if you could give us some context around the transformation that you guys were working on, or the or the problem post improvement you're trying to solve.
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You know, what what was what was going on?
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Yeah, so I suppose what we what we can talk about is our deployment specifically within our contact centres.
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Now that was our last um sort of vertical, if you like, within our Tesco business solution, our GBS.
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Um we hadn't done the contact centres, we hadn't stretched the capability into them yet.
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So um I was hired to do that as a sort of expert in sort of contact centers to do that.
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And um we've just now fully completed um that journey.
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So I've been in Tesco's for three years, and it's took us two years to cover every single contact center that we that we have, um deploying across the excuse me, the the four the four geographies.
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So it has been a bit of a stretch and a bit of a journey, but um we have got there, and it's to great success, I have to say, and testament to my central team and uh for deploying that, my team of coaches, um, to make that stick and make that happen.
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And you know, we're seeing a lot of accreditations coming through our BQF now, a lot of A3 problem solvings to you know, either whether that be driving efficiency or specifically what we really try to focus in is that colleague and customer experience impact, um, which is which is really driving um success for group ultimately.
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Fantastic.
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And can you tell us a little bit about you know how did you go about mobilizing and getting all of the resources and team ready to do this?
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Yeah, so I suppose to mobilize that we we've initially done a sort of a proof of concept pilot, if you like, within um our Dundee estate to understand exactly um how we could do it and how it how it would look and feel within the contact centre environment.
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So we have a model, we have a training model which is aligned to the BQF's um sort of certification process.
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So we knew what we had to train and we knew what we what we were going to train, but um every sort of function and every operation is different, so it was to take that on board and to flex the model slightly, but not take away from the toolkit and not take away from fundamentally what we're trying to do and what we're trying to achieve, and inject that capability within the operations to be self-sustainable in terms of managing their own change every single day to get better every single day.
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Um, so I suppose for for us, we we started within Dundee and we we expanded that out to the the full network of three thousand three thousand colleagues ultimately, excuse me, um, and we've now come to come to the end of it, but what we've done is we we take every single um hub, if you like, and break that into small sections.
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So typically we would do waves of deployments around about say three to four hundred colleagues based on that, and what we do and how we deploy that is every single colleague will have a degree of training given to them by my coaching team.
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Um and the first level team in our fundamental training is that sorry, what we call hearts and minds, where we get everybody in and we play with Lego and we tell them what what continuous improvement is, and we're here to make your lives easier, and you know, all we need from you is all of the ideas and all the irritants that you see day to day that stop you from delivering great service or driving a great experience to that customer, or even experience as a colleague, if you're not happy within um within the the sort of Tesco environment and you think things could be better, raise that to us and tell us what's what's going on so we can we can then mobilize the people which we train within that operation and we take all of their sort of frontline leadership on a three-day boot camp, sort of intensive training to really deep dive into the toolkit to say this is the sort of lean toolkit, six sigma toolkit, this is what you're gonna be using.
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So, how do you identify waste?
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You know, what non-value ad activity was with it is within your um your job role today, but how do you raise all that up?
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How do you understand what cause and effect is, and how do you take teams to run A3 problem solving sessions?
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So when I am that colleague that's been through that hearts and minds session, and I say to you as my manager, so is I'm not really happy with how we are you know impacting customers' lives.
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I'm equipped and I can take you can take that straight away and you can take us through an A3 problem solving journey, but not with just me, with my colleagues as well on the shop with on the shop floor to really find out what we can do to improve our processes daily.
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And then we look at the the third sort of level of of training that which we offer is our leadership training.
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So our sort of senior leaders, how yeah, it's a bottom-up coaching uh model and a bottom-up uh improvement model, but how do we ensure that our leader from the front and they're talking about that every single day, and they're using the same language that we train in in training to say, okay, so where's your A3 problem solving?
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Have you looked at your performance dashboard recently?
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Oh, that's a really good idea.
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Have you thought about taking that to a 3C's just do it initiative?
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That's the type of language that we need to be driving from our leadership population.
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So when we, you know, as a as a centralized team, when we have stopped such a training journey and we move into that sustained model, is they don't really need me.
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They just need me for that expert knowledge to say, we've been thinking about this problem, we've maybe took it to NA3 problem solving, and we can't really find the root cause.
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That's where my team can come in and really take sort of that full transformation, I suppose, um, sort of excellence piece to say, but we'll do this full value chain um assessment in terms of what's happening and how can we how can we uh improve that?
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So that's kind of the journey that we've gone on, how we've deployed it.
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Yeah, yeah.
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And you talk about it being bottom up, but I mean in a way it's it's a bit of both.
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It feels like it's a bit of both.
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It has to be it's bottom up and it's and it's leadership down because otherwise you've got the leaders wafting around wondering what on earth's going on down there, haven't you?
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Sort of thing.
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Exactly.
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Yeah, so the where we where we see that there's probably a level of disconnect sometimes when you look at other organizations outside of Tesco, is they've invested so much time into you know injecting capability, you know, if you like that bottom-up piece, but they've not got that sort of vision and that that that really from their leadership to say we need to use this as a critical enabler for success, essentially, and that's what we try to marry up at Tesco is to say, look, with the leadership training, that they are talking the talk and they're walking the walk with their frontline.
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Yeah.
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And I really like the way you described that you know people are equipped not just to run, let's say, an A3 or problem solving, but they're equipped to facilitate it.
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Because those are different skills, aren't they?
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And sometimes we focus very much on the first, but not on the facilitation and what's needed there.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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And when we initially train um everybody in what we call the boot camp, the three-day boot camp, I always say to everybody that would that I take through a boot camp session, you've only done 10% of the journey, right?
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I can train you, I can train you, but unless you go ahead and you have the confidence and you have the the sort of the curiosity and the bravery to really pick the tool up and and go ahead and drive it in your team, you know, it won't really stick it, it won't really land.
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And that's why we deploy a team of coaches that are on site and available to offer that that sort of crutch, if you like, to any to any leader that has got that bravery and the curiosity to go ahead and and try and um implement this A3 problem solving or take a do a fishbone analysis or whatever.
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They've got that coach there to hold their hand through the process, an industry expert that has used it, has done it, has breathed the full journey before.
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So, and that's how we also do it.
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So I talked about we'll turn one hub on in a wave.
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As we go through that, the need for coaching actually becomes less because you're you're injecting the capability and you're building focal points within the operation themselves that they don't always have to come to a coach, they can go to a colleague or a peer to say, I'm thinking about doing this, or my team keeps me with this problem.
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What do you think?
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And it's that sort of ability to work collaboratively that we sort of pride ourselves on, I suppose.
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You mentioned dashboards, so that's also part of the deployment.
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What what sort of thing would I see if I was a leader in Tesco looking at a dashboard?
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Yeah, so I mean we all work on balanced metrics, so PQCD, so people, quality, cost, and delivery, and that is fundamentally our sort of blueprint for all dashboards within Tesco.
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So if you were to come on site within Bangalore, you couldn't move for whiteboards.
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Every single team, every single function has a whiteboard, and they're tracking PQCD.
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All right.
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So how are people feeling?
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What are they saying?
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You know, from a quality perspective, you know, how many defects have we seen, etc.
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And from a delivery perspective, are we keeping to SLA?
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Um, we've just slightly changed the model um recently to put in safety for our distribution colleagues as well, which is going really, really well.
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Obviously, and a manual environment safety has got to be at the forefront of of their of their mind.
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So we've now shifted it slightly so to like SPQCD, because safety has got to be be up front, but it's the same principles, it's the same routines, it's the same practices.
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The dashboard, and or the the whiteboard, if you like, it's there, it's visible, it's on the shop floor.
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I don't have to go far for it.
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I can see it and at a three-minute glance, I know how my team's tracking, or even someone else's team's tracking.
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If I've been trained on how to you know look at a dashboard, I can look at that and I can see where we're where we're tracking.
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You know, green is good, red sometimes is bad, and whatever.
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Absolutely.
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Okay, fab.
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And can you give us some sense of the results that you've seen through this deployment?
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Yeah, so absolutely.
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So um, excuse me, I think what we've achieved is we've injected around about seven million pounds worth of cost saving back to the business and for that safe to invest piece.
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So not only just raw cost saving, but ultimately investing it back into business, investing it back into the teams to to sort of do with it with what how they bought too.
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So can we consume more work?
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Can we take more work in as a team?
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Can we think about it smarter?
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Um, we've got a team of uh practitioners within um within each hub, um, accredited by the BQF, so we've got that capability pushed in pushed into it.
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Um, each um hub has been uh targeted for 85% um training, so every single colleague has got to be trained within the first three months.
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Um so they've got an 85% target um every sing every for it for every single hub.
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So we're sustaining it for eight years, I suppose, from a result perspective, is we've made all these cost savings, but crucially from our cultural change programme, and actually for colleagues listening to, we have a we have a yearly survey EVM, and consistently colleagues call out that my manager listens to me, but they also crucially call out my manager listens to me through A3 problem solving through performance dashboard dialogue conversations.
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So I suppose for us that's the that's the real confirmation that I need, you know, as a as a as a leader in terms of leading this, that what we are doing is making a difference, and it's making the change stick.
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So, yeah, the the sort of cost savings or the safe to invest piece is great, but actually, where you get the the real reward is colleagues telling you that what you've done has really truly made a difference.
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Yes, fantastic.
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And and as you say, that um sustainability in that you can go anywhere and you can see the same kind of behaviours and people talking the same way and they're following the same practices, is uh I mean it's often very elusive, isn't it?
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It's what people are craving to do, they rarely achieve.
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Yeah, exactly, exactly.
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So I think it's as long as people are are bought into the program, you know, and people see what you're doing, so you're not just the the intangible saying, like, well, we can we're gonna give you this training, but actually paint the picture for them to what it'll mean for them and what it'll drive for them.
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So have you got problems and are you experiencing problem at the moment?
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Well, we can solve for that, but not just we can solve for it, you can solve for it as a team.
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We'll give you the capability to look at this every single day to drive better results for yeah, the business, but crucially for our customers and our colleagues.
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Yeah, yeah.
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And so what's the other side of that coin, Fraser?
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I have to ask.
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What would you say if you were thinking uh back to sort of what didn't go so well, what what what did you learn from that?
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Yeah, so I suppose what didn't what didn't go so well is it was probably our first initial deployment within within Dundee.
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And you know, where did we where did we fall over and you know and what went wrong?
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It's I've got to look, I've got to take a big, you know, hold my hands up here as probably take a lot of accountability.
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Is my own confidence probably was my was my sticking point.
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You know, I'd been deploying continuous improvement and cultural change programs for you know years.
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You know, I'm talking about you know I've been in the change world for about 15 years now.
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I knew what I was doing.
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The model never changes, the toolkit doesn't change ultimately.
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I know what I'm doing, I know how it works, I know how it works in contact centres.
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So I picked it up, I took the I took the training, and I just went straight into delivery mode.
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I was like, we need to get this done, we need to get this over the line, let's go in and let's get it done, let's train all these people, and we'll leave, and it'll be great, and we'll and then we'll just move on the journey and we can just go straight into you know the next hub and we can go with the next team.
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It didn't quite happen as as well as I thought, and ultimately, I think what went on is like I assumed that the capability and the readiness for for change and for continuous improvement was already there, it was already baked in.
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Now, the truth of the matter was is we'd never done a change programme or we'd never done a cultural change programme like this before in any of our contact centres at Tesco.
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They didn't didn't have any um experience of continuous improvement or lean methodology before.
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I assumed that because we'd been doing it in other hubs that it would have trickled down in terms of the messaging.
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It hadn't.
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It hadn't got that far.
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So I went in, I focused on what needed to change and how much the and and and how we could get that in, but not how much the system could actually absorb that and take it in.
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So how were our tea how were our people going to consume the change?
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Now there was change fatigue within within the operation.
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They'd they'd been through you know different types of change.
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So our leaders had been through um train with other you know external suppliers to say, you know, perhaps like blue sky thinking and stuff like that, has been mentioned in the past, but it was then delivered to them, but there's no sustained model, so there's no belief that actually, yeah, I'll sit in this training session, but I don't need to do anything at the back of it because it will go away within 12 to 24 months time.
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Well, that wasn't me, that's not who I am.
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So, you know, I had to, I had to, I had to quickly, I had to quickly bring it back on and bring it back, bring it back into journey.
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And I had to sort of eat a bit of humble pie in terms of saying, Yeah, I might have got that wrong, might have got that, might have got that a little bit um sort of off kilter a little bit.
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Um so to bring it back out back on plan is I developed that leadership training that I talked about previously.
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So actually, what is our lead what does our leadership team need to do to drive this from the top?
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So actually, what we're colleagues were saying was there's a disconnect.
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So you're telling me that I need to do AC problem solving, I need to find the issues, but then our leadership are telling us to focus on different aspects and different parts of the role.
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So we had to marry that up from you know not only from a core objective piece, but also from our vision setting, our target conditions that we're setting within um our operational teams as well.
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How does CI become the critical enabler to drive great service and to drive you know safe to invest programs, etc.?
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So that is what we had to do.
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We had to understand our leaders driving it from the top, but crucially, every single wave deployment that we do now has to go through a maturity assessment, and a maturity assessment is based on Deming's principles of operational excellence.
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So I built a um I built my myself and my colleagues built a 32 requirement standard assessment um criteria so we can actually understand from a perspective of operational excellence: are we ready to do continuous improvement?
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Are we ready to go through, or do we actually have to put in some some other fundamentals that will that will help us and help supplement continuous improvement?
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Like, do we have enough data-driven decision making, or do we have the tools to make data-driven uh decision-making um uh decisions?
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I think about 30 times there.
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Um how does and how does that and how does that work and how does that work?
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And how can we how can we pull them through on their journey without any of that?
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Because if we don't have the foundations, then it won't succeed.
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So I suppose that that is what we had to do is build the maturity assessment to understand if we're capable of change, and then that impact assessment is if we are to do this, what's the likely impact of that?
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If we don't do it, what's the impact of it?
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And then understand understanding that.
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So yeah, it's a cultural change programme.
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If you don't do it, they'll continue down the path of what you're doing.
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And do you know what they might be a really high-performing team anyway, but if you do do it, you have to do it right.
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And to do it right, you've got to take every single operation in its singularity.
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You can't you can't just wrap everything up, yeah.
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The model doesn't change ultimately, but you can flex your approach, and that is what that is what we do now within within the particularly within the contact center tape, because culturally, the difference between Dundee and Waterford, albeit they're very, very close geography-wise, it's very, very different.
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So we have to take the differences into account, and we have to we have to we have to appreciate that because some will be better than others, and that's fine.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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And I think the crucial piece, you know, you're right, the model doesn't change, but the readiness for change changes, and if that readiness for change isn't there as well as that other under you know, knowledge and so on and so forth, then you're just pushing water uphill, aren't you?
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Yeah, the time wasn't wrong, but my timing and the context that I was sharing was wrong, and that's what I had to change.
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So, how do I ch how do I sell them this this story?
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It was like it was almost like I was by snake oil season to say that was gonna change their lives.
00:20:43.279 --> 00:20:45.440
Well, people don't care about that ultimately.
00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:49.359
There's like, how are you going to make my life in Tesco better?
00:20:49.359 --> 00:20:50.720
And that's what I had to do.
00:20:50.720 --> 00:20:57.839
Instead of just saying this works in you know BT, it works in Toyota, it works in B it works in other other industries, right?
00:20:57.839 --> 00:21:00.160
Fine, but I don't work there, I work in Tesco.
00:21:00.160 --> 00:21:03.680
Tell me how it's gonna work in Tesco and how it's gonna make my life easier.
00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:05.279
Yeah, yeah.
00:21:05.279 --> 00:21:15.599
And so as you as you move forward, these learnings from this work that you've done, you're building into all of your future deployments.
00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:16.880
Yeah, absolutely.
00:21:16.880 --> 00:21:32.079
And I suppose the the big things of for me that what which I preach to everybody within my team is don't assume that because we've had prior success elsewhere, that that's going to guarantee us success every single way every single place that we go.
00:21:32.079 --> 00:21:44.799
So, for example, like I talked about that we're in we're going into the distribution network in our in our in our supply chain, is we need to understand wh where they are in their journey just now from an operation like Sys P.
00:21:44.799 --> 00:21:50.480
So the first thing we have to do is assess and understand that and understand the lay of the land.
00:21:50.480 --> 00:21:52.400
You know, what's the change landscape like?
00:21:52.400 --> 00:22:10.240
Like how much change are these guys having to consume, you know, on a you know, a daily basis ultimately, in some in some instances, and how Are we not going to add to the fatigue but supplement them how they're going to consume it and how they're going to consume the change and how are they going to consume change differently going forward?
00:22:10.240 --> 00:22:21.759
And don't don't assume ultimately that leadership, sponsorship, and buy-in directly correlates to capacity to actually do what you need them to do.
00:22:21.759 --> 00:22:25.680
You need to build capacity in the system for them to cons to consume it.
00:22:25.680 --> 00:22:28.160
So A3 problem solving is a prime example.
00:22:28.160 --> 00:22:35.119
Like, I can't just give it A3 problem solving to somebody that's already maxed out in terms of their time.
00:22:35.119 --> 00:22:49.119
So what we do is understand where does the non-value add activity sit within that within their role currently, and how can we enable them to find that and strip it out so we can give them more to do in the A3 problem solving space.
00:22:49.119 --> 00:22:55.599
Ultimately, is the big one.
00:22:55.599 --> 00:23:04.799
So if we don't measure our readiness and we don't if we don't measure success, then we will never succeed ultimately deploying this.
00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:15.680
Change will happen on top of that.
00:23:15.680 --> 00:23:31.519
So when we're when we're doing huge scale transformation pro programs or colleagues are consuming that, don't say that, oh well, don't look at that.
00:23:31.519 --> 00:23:34.319
When that comes, look at ways to improve that.
00:23:34.319 --> 00:23:39.440
So when I mean every any transformation things, it's never right first time.
00:23:39.440 --> 00:23:41.519
How do you improve it going forward?
00:23:41.839 --> 00:23:42.480
Yeah.
00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:49.039
Honestly, Fraser, it's a really incredible story that you talk about, and I and there's so much in it.
00:23:49.039 --> 00:23:51.279
I could spend hours talking to you.
00:23:51.279 --> 00:24:02.160
Um, I'm really, really um grateful for you joining us today and for being so honest and sharing your learnings, both from a success and from a what didn't go quite so well, perspective.
00:24:02.160 --> 00:24:02.799
Thank you very much.
00:24:03.440 --> 00:24:03.920
Not a problem.
00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:04.960
Thanks very much for having me.
00:24:04.960 --> 00:24:06.160
It's a pleasure.
00:24:06.640 --> 00:24:11.519
So, listeners, if you enjoyed this episode, please don't forget to subscribe.
00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:15.359
Do share it with your colleagues and friends, leave us a review.
00:24:15.359 --> 00:24:19.759
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00:24:19.759 --> 00:24:25.599
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00:24:25.599 --> 00:24:28.960
Until next time, thank you very much for joining us today.
00:24:29.920 --> 00:24:30.640
Thanks.
00:24:31.599 --> 00:24:32.319
Thank you.
00:24:32.799 --> 00:24:34.000
No problem at all.
00:00:00.239 --> 00:00:14.640
Welcome to PMI's GEMBAfication, the podcast where we explore real stories behind performance improvement, where we bring improvements to where the work is done, and of course the highs and lows that we all experience when we're making those improvements.
00:00:14.640 --> 00:00:26.480
I'm Susanna Clark, I'm your host, I'm managing partner at PMI, and today I'm joined by Fraser Cowe, who is Global Process Experience Business Partner at Tesco.
00:00:26.480 --> 00:00:28.480
I'm glad I got that right.
00:00:28.480 --> 00:00:31.120
Great to have you with me today, Fraser.
00:00:31.120 --> 00:00:32.079
How are you?
00:00:32.479 --> 00:00:33.920
Yeah, very well, Susannah.
00:00:33.920 --> 00:00:35.119
You did get it right, so thank you.
00:00:35.119 --> 00:00:38.079
Pleasure to be here and I look forward to the conversation.
00:00:38.399 --> 00:00:39.679
Absolutely, thank you.
00:00:39.679 --> 00:00:46.079
So before we get started, I wondered if you could just give us a sense of what does CI look like in Tesco?
00:00:47.520 --> 00:00:48.479
Yeah, thanks.
00:00:48.479 --> 00:00:56.320
So Tesco have been rolling out a continuous improvement programme now for over eight years now.
00:00:56.320 --> 00:01:09.519
And I've never seen in my period of being a sort of change, transformation, operational excellence practitioner for 15 years, I've never seen that level of sustainment across any um sort of industry sector before.
00:01:09.519 --> 00:01:19.920
Um so it's testament to the to the central team's sort of just buy-in of and running of the uh relentless pursuit of operational excellence within Tesco.
00:01:19.920 --> 00:01:22.400
Um so it spans four geographies.
00:01:22.400 --> 00:01:30.400
Um, we've got a hub within Bangalore, um, Dundee in Scotland, we've got Waterford in Central Europe, so within our TBS estate.
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Um, and we're now looking to expand that capability of continuous improvement now to the wider part of the business, and when we're first stepping foot into our distribution network in terms of our supply chain.
00:01:41.040 --> 00:01:45.280
So it's a very, very exciting time um here at Tesco, particularly for CI.
00:01:45.680 --> 00:01:47.760
Yeah, great place to be.
00:01:47.760 --> 00:01:58.719
So for today, I wondered if you could give us some context around the transformation that you guys were working on, or the or the problem post improvement you're trying to solve.
00:01:58.719 --> 00:02:01.040
You know, what what was what was going on?
00:02:01.920 --> 00:02:08.159
Yeah, so I suppose what we what we can talk about is our deployment specifically within our contact centres.
00:02:08.159 --> 00:02:14.400
Now that was our last um sort of vertical, if you like, within our Tesco business solution, our GBS.
00:02:14.400 --> 00:02:18.719
Um we hadn't done the contact centres, we hadn't stretched the capability into them yet.
00:02:18.719 --> 00:02:23.759
So um I was hired to do that as a sort of expert in sort of contact centers to do that.
00:02:23.759 --> 00:02:27.840
And um we've just now fully completed um that journey.
00:02:27.840 --> 00:02:38.240
So I've been in Tesco's for three years, and it's took us two years to cover every single contact center that we that we have, um deploying across the excuse me, the the four the four geographies.
00:02:38.240 --> 00:02:51.439
So it has been a bit of a stretch and a bit of a journey, but um we have got there, and it's to great success, I have to say, and testament to my central team and uh for deploying that, my team of coaches, um, to make that stick and make that happen.
00:02:51.439 --> 00:03:10.719
And you know, we're seeing a lot of accreditations coming through our BQF now, a lot of A3 problem solvings to you know, either whether that be driving efficiency or specifically what we really try to focus in is that colleague and customer experience impact, um, which is which is really driving um success for group ultimately.
00:03:11.039 --> 00:03:12.000
Fantastic.
00:03:12.000 --> 00:03:20.240
And can you tell us a little bit about you know how did you go about mobilizing and getting all of the resources and team ready to do this?
00:03:20.560 --> 00:03:35.039
Yeah, so I suppose to mobilize that we we've initially done a sort of a proof of concept pilot, if you like, within um our Dundee estate to understand exactly um how we could do it and how it how it would look and feel within the contact centre environment.
00:03:35.039 --> 00:03:41.199
So we have a model, we have a training model which is aligned to the BQF's um sort of certification process.
00:03:41.199 --> 00:04:10.560
So we knew what we had to train and we knew what we what we were going to train, but um every sort of function and every operation is different, so it was to take that on board and to flex the model slightly, but not take away from the toolkit and not take away from fundamentally what we're trying to do and what we're trying to achieve, and inject that capability within the operations to be self-sustainable in terms of managing their own change every single day to get better every single day.
00:04:10.560 --> 00:04:32.639
Um, so I suppose for for us, we we started within Dundee and we we expanded that out to the the full network of three thousand three thousand colleagues ultimately, excuse me, um, and we've now come to come to the end of it, but what we've done is we we take every single um hub, if you like, and break that into small sections.
00:04:32.639 --> 00:04:48.720
So typically we would do waves of deployments around about say three to four hundred colleagues based on that, and what we do and how we deploy that is every single colleague will have a degree of training given to them by my coaching team.
00:04:48.720 --> 00:05:38.079
Um and the first level team in our fundamental training is that sorry, what we call hearts and minds, where we get everybody in and we play with Lego and we tell them what what continuous improvement is, and we're here to make your lives easier, and you know, all we need from you is all of the ideas and all the irritants that you see day to day that stop you from delivering great service or driving a great experience to that customer, or even experience as a colleague, if you're not happy within um within the the sort of Tesco environment and you think things could be better, raise that to us and tell us what's what's going on so we can we can then mobilize the people which we train within that operation and we take all of their sort of frontline leadership on a three-day boot camp, sort of intensive training to really deep dive into the toolkit to say this is the sort of lean toolkit, six sigma toolkit, this is what you're gonna be using.
00:05:38.079 --> 00:05:39.680
So, how do you identify waste?
00:05:39.680 --> 00:05:45.759
You know, what non-value ad activity was with it is within your um your job role today, but how do you raise all that up?
00:05:45.759 --> 00:05:51.920
How do you understand what cause and effect is, and how do you take teams to run A3 problem solving sessions?
00:05:51.920 --> 00:06:02.079
So when I am that colleague that's been through that hearts and minds session, and I say to you as my manager, so is I'm not really happy with how we are you know impacting customers' lives.
00:06:02.079 --> 00:06:17.360
I'm equipped and I can take you can take that straight away and you can take us through an A3 problem solving journey, but not with just me, with my colleagues as well on the shop with on the shop floor to really find out what we can do to improve our processes daily.
00:06:17.360 --> 00:06:23.759
And then we look at the the third sort of level of of training that which we offer is our leadership training.
00:06:23.759 --> 00:06:45.040
So our sort of senior leaders, how yeah, it's a bottom-up coaching uh model and a bottom-up uh improvement model, but how do we ensure that our leader from the front and they're talking about that every single day, and they're using the same language that we train in in training to say, okay, so where's your A3 problem solving?
00:06:45.040 --> 00:06:47.199
Have you looked at your performance dashboard recently?
00:06:47.199 --> 00:06:48.560
Oh, that's a really good idea.
00:06:48.560 --> 00:06:51.680
Have you thought about taking that to a 3C's just do it initiative?
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That's the type of language that we need to be driving from our leadership population.
00:06:56.079 --> 00:07:06.160
So when we, you know, as a as a centralized team, when we have stopped such a training journey and we move into that sustained model, is they don't really need me.
00:07:06.160 --> 00:07:15.120
They just need me for that expert knowledge to say, we've been thinking about this problem, we've maybe took it to NA3 problem solving, and we can't really find the root cause.
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That's where my team can come in and really take sort of that full transformation, I suppose, um, sort of excellence piece to say, but we'll do this full value chain um assessment in terms of what's happening and how can we how can we uh improve that?
00:07:34.720 --> 00:07:37.839
So that's kind of the journey that we've gone on, how we've deployed it.
00:07:38.079 --> 00:07:38.480
Yeah, yeah.
00:07:38.480 --> 00:07:42.639
And you talk about it being bottom up, but I mean in a way it's it's a bit of both.
00:07:42.639 --> 00:07:43.839
It feels like it's a bit of both.
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It has to be it's bottom up and it's and it's leadership down because otherwise you've got the leaders wafting around wondering what on earth's going on down there, haven't you?
00:07:50.879 --> 00:07:51.360
Sort of thing.
00:07:51.600 --> 00:07:52.160
Exactly.
00:07:52.160 --> 00:08:25.920
Yeah, so the where we where we see that there's probably a level of disconnect sometimes when you look at other organizations outside of Tesco, is they've invested so much time into you know injecting capability, you know, if you like that bottom-up piece, but they've not got that sort of vision and that that that really from their leadership to say we need to use this as a critical enabler for success, essentially, and that's what we try to marry up at Tesco is to say, look, with the leadership training, that they are talking the talk and they're walking the walk with their frontline.
00:08:26.560 --> 00:08:27.120
Yeah.
00:08:27.120 --> 00:08:38.960
And I really like the way you described that you know people are equipped not just to run, let's say, an A3 or problem solving, but they're equipped to facilitate it.
00:08:38.960 --> 00:08:41.360
Because those are different skills, aren't they?
00:08:41.360 --> 00:08:46.879
And sometimes we focus very much on the first, but not on the facilitation and what's needed there.
00:08:47.360 --> 00:08:48.559
Yeah, absolutely.
00:08:48.559 --> 00:09:01.120
And when we initially train um everybody in what we call the boot camp, the three-day boot camp, I always say to everybody that would that I take through a boot camp session, you've only done 10% of the journey, right?
00:09:01.120 --> 00:09:15.759
I can train you, I can train you, but unless you go ahead and you have the confidence and you have the the sort of the curiosity and the bravery to really pick the tool up and and go ahead and drive it in your team, you know, it won't really stick it, it won't really land.
00:09:15.759 --> 00:09:34.559
And that's why we deploy a team of coaches that are on site and available to offer that that sort of crutch, if you like, to any to any leader that has got that bravery and the curiosity to go ahead and and try and um implement this A3 problem solving or take a do a fishbone analysis or whatever.
00:09:34.559 --> 00:09:43.600
They've got that coach there to hold their hand through the process, an industry expert that has used it, has done it, has breathed the full journey before.
00:09:43.600 --> 00:09:45.679
So, and that's how we also do it.
00:09:45.679 --> 00:09:49.279
So I talked about we'll turn one hub on in a wave.
00:09:49.279 --> 00:10:06.399
As we go through that, the need for coaching actually becomes less because you're you're injecting the capability and you're building focal points within the operation themselves that they don't always have to come to a coach, they can go to a colleague or a peer to say, I'm thinking about doing this, or my team keeps me with this problem.
00:10:06.399 --> 00:10:07.759
What do you think?
00:10:07.759 --> 00:10:16.960
And it's that sort of ability to work collaboratively that we sort of pride ourselves on, I suppose.
00:10:17.519 --> 00:10:21.360
You mentioned dashboards, so that's also part of the deployment.
00:10:21.360 --> 00:10:26.639
What what sort of thing would I see if I was a leader in Tesco looking at a dashboard?
00:10:27.279 --> 00:10:41.039
Yeah, so I mean we all work on balanced metrics, so PQCD, so people, quality, cost, and delivery, and that is fundamentally our sort of blueprint for all dashboards within Tesco.
00:10:41.039 --> 00:10:45.279
So if you were to come on site within Bangalore, you couldn't move for whiteboards.
00:10:45.279 --> 00:10:50.080
Every single team, every single function has a whiteboard, and they're tracking PQCD.
00:10:50.080 --> 00:10:50.480
All right.
00:10:50.480 --> 00:10:51.919
So how are people feeling?
00:10:51.919 --> 00:10:52.960
What are they saying?
00:10:52.960 --> 00:10:56.960
You know, from a quality perspective, you know, how many defects have we seen, etc.
00:10:56.960 --> 00:11:00.080
And from a delivery perspective, are we keeping to SLA?
00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:08.399
Um, we've just slightly changed the model um recently to put in safety for our distribution colleagues as well, which is going really, really well.
00:11:08.399 --> 00:11:13.039
Obviously, and a manual environment safety has got to be at the forefront of of their of their mind.
00:11:13.039 --> 00:11:22.559
So we've now shifted it slightly so to like SPQCD, because safety has got to be be up front, but it's the same principles, it's the same routines, it's the same practices.
00:11:22.559 --> 00:11:27.600
The dashboard, and or the the whiteboard, if you like, it's there, it's visible, it's on the shop floor.
00:11:27.600 --> 00:11:29.440
I don't have to go far for it.
00:11:29.440 --> 00:11:35.919
I can see it and at a three-minute glance, I know how my team's tracking, or even someone else's team's tracking.
00:11:35.919 --> 00:11:41.200
If I've been trained on how to you know look at a dashboard, I can look at that and I can see where we're where we're tracking.
00:11:41.200 --> 00:11:44.720
You know, green is good, red sometimes is bad, and whatever.
00:11:44.720 --> 00:11:46.080
Absolutely.
00:11:46.399 --> 00:11:47.440
Okay, fab.
00:11:47.440 --> 00:11:53.519
And can you give us some sense of the results that you've seen through this deployment?
00:11:54.080 --> 00:11:55.279
Yeah, so absolutely.
00:11:55.279 --> 00:12:06.639
So um, excuse me, I think what we've achieved is we've injected around about seven million pounds worth of cost saving back to the business and for that safe to invest piece.
00:12:06.639 --> 00:12:16.480
So not only just raw cost saving, but ultimately investing it back into business, investing it back into the teams to to sort of do with it with what how they bought too.
00:12:16.480 --> 00:12:17.840
So can we consume more work?
00:12:17.840 --> 00:12:19.519
Can we take more work in as a team?
00:12:19.519 --> 00:12:21.360
Can we think about it smarter?
00:12:21.360 --> 00:12:32.159
Um, we've got a team of uh practitioners within um within each hub, um, accredited by the BQF, so we've got that capability pushed in pushed into it.
00:12:32.159 --> 00:12:42.000
Um, each um hub has been uh targeted for 85% um training, so every single colleague has got to be trained within the first three months.
00:12:42.000 --> 00:12:47.120
Um so they've got an 85% target um every sing every for it for every single hub.
00:12:47.120 --> 00:13:11.360
So we're sustaining it for eight years, I suppose, from a result perspective, is we've made all these cost savings, but crucially from our cultural change programme, and actually for colleagues listening to, we have a we have a yearly survey EVM, and consistently colleagues call out that my manager listens to me, but they also crucially call out my manager listens to me through A3 problem solving through performance dashboard dialogue conversations.
00:13:11.360 --> 00:13:23.360
So I suppose for us that's the that's the real confirmation that I need, you know, as a as a as a leader in terms of leading this, that what we are doing is making a difference, and it's making the change stick.
00:13:23.360 --> 00:13:34.159
So, yeah, the the sort of cost savings or the safe to invest piece is great, but actually, where you get the the real reward is colleagues telling you that what you've done has really truly made a difference.
00:13:34.480 --> 00:13:35.840
Yes, fantastic.
00:13:35.840 --> 00:13:51.759
And and as you say, that um sustainability in that you can go anywhere and you can see the same kind of behaviours and people talking the same way and they're following the same practices, is uh I mean it's often very elusive, isn't it?
00:13:51.759 --> 00:13:55.440
It's what people are craving to do, they rarely achieve.
00:13:55.840 --> 00:13:57.120
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
00:13:57.120 --> 00:14:14.240
So I think it's as long as people are are bought into the program, you know, and people see what you're doing, so you're not just the the intangible saying, like, well, we can we're gonna give you this training, but actually paint the picture for them to what it'll mean for them and what it'll drive for them.
00:14:14.240 --> 00:14:18.799
So have you got problems and are you experiencing problem at the moment?
00:14:18.799 --> 00:14:23.519
Well, we can solve for that, but not just we can solve for it, you can solve for it as a team.
00:14:23.519 --> 00:14:33.200
We'll give you the capability to look at this every single day to drive better results for yeah, the business, but crucially for our customers and our colleagues.
00:14:33.360 --> 00:14:34.399
Yeah, yeah.
00:14:34.399 --> 00:14:39.360
And so what's the other side of that coin, Fraser?
00:14:39.360 --> 00:14:40.559
I have to ask.
00:14:40.559 --> 00:14:48.720
What would you say if you were thinking uh back to sort of what didn't go so well, what what what did you learn from that?
00:14:49.440 --> 00:14:56.720
Yeah, so I suppose what didn't what didn't go so well is it was probably our first initial deployment within within Dundee.
00:14:56.720 --> 00:15:03.759
And you know, where did we where did we fall over and you know and what went wrong?
00:15:03.759 --> 00:15:10.399
It's I've got to look, I've got to take a big, you know, hold my hands up here as probably take a lot of accountability.
00:15:10.399 --> 00:15:13.919
Is my own confidence probably was my was my sticking point.
00:15:13.919 --> 00:15:19.600
You know, I'd been deploying continuous improvement and cultural change programs for you know years.
00:15:19.600 --> 00:15:24.000
You know, I'm talking about you know I've been in the change world for about 15 years now.
00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:25.600
I knew what I was doing.
00:15:25.600 --> 00:15:29.120
The model never changes, the toolkit doesn't change ultimately.
00:15:29.120 --> 00:15:32.960
I know what I'm doing, I know how it works, I know how it works in contact centres.
00:15:32.960 --> 00:15:38.480
So I picked it up, I took the I took the training, and I just went straight into delivery mode.
00:15:38.480 --> 00:15:52.879
I was like, we need to get this done, we need to get this over the line, let's go in and let's get it done, let's train all these people, and we'll leave, and it'll be great, and we'll and then we'll just move on the journey and we can just go straight into you know the next hub and we can go with the next team.
00:15:52.879 --> 00:16:06.720
It didn't quite happen as as well as I thought, and ultimately, I think what went on is like I assumed that the capability and the readiness for for change and for continuous improvement was already there, it was already baked in.
00:16:06.720 --> 00:16:15.279
Now, the truth of the matter was is we'd never done a change programme or we'd never done a cultural change programme like this before in any of our contact centres at Tesco.
00:16:15.279 --> 00:16:19.919
They didn't didn't have any um experience of continuous improvement or lean methodology before.
00:16:19.919 --> 00:16:25.840
I assumed that because we'd been doing it in other hubs that it would have trickled down in terms of the messaging.
00:16:25.840 --> 00:16:26.799
It hadn't.
00:16:26.799 --> 00:16:28.960
It hadn't got that far.
00:16:28.960 --> 00:16:39.840
So I went in, I focused on what needed to change and how much the and and and how we could get that in, but not how much the system could actually absorb that and take it in.
00:16:39.840 --> 00:16:44.000
So how were our tea how were our people going to consume the change?
00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:47.600
Now there was change fatigue within within the operation.
00:16:47.600 --> 00:16:50.799
They'd they'd been through you know different types of change.
00:16:50.799 --> 00:17:11.119
So our leaders had been through um train with other you know external suppliers to say, you know, perhaps like blue sky thinking and stuff like that, has been mentioned in the past, but it was then delivered to them, but there's no sustained model, so there's no belief that actually, yeah, I'll sit in this training session, but I don't need to do anything at the back of it because it will go away within 12 to 24 months time.
00:17:11.119 --> 00:17:14.079
Well, that wasn't me, that's not who I am.
00:17:14.079 --> 00:17:21.119
So, you know, I had to, I had to, I had to quickly, I had to quickly bring it back on and bring it back, bring it back into journey.
00:17:21.119 --> 00:17:30.559
And I had to sort of eat a bit of humble pie in terms of saying, Yeah, I might have got that wrong, might have got that, might have got that a little bit um sort of off kilter a little bit.
00:17:30.559 --> 00:17:37.519
Um so to bring it back out back on plan is I developed that leadership training that I talked about previously.
00:17:37.519 --> 00:17:43.039
So actually, what is our lead what does our leadership team need to do to drive this from the top?
00:17:43.039 --> 00:17:46.400
So actually, what we're colleagues were saying was there's a disconnect.
00:17:46.400 --> 00:17:55.680
So you're telling me that I need to do AC problem solving, I need to find the issues, but then our leadership are telling us to focus on different aspects and different parts of the role.
00:17:55.680 --> 00:18:05.680
So we had to marry that up from you know not only from a core objective piece, but also from our vision setting, our target conditions that we're setting within um our operational teams as well.
00:18:05.680 --> 00:18:13.599
How does CI become the critical enabler to drive great service and to drive you know safe to invest programs, etc.?
00:18:13.599 --> 00:18:15.440
So that is what we had to do.
00:18:15.440 --> 00:18:28.960
We had to understand our leaders driving it from the top, but crucially, every single wave deployment that we do now has to go through a maturity assessment, and a maturity assessment is based on Deming's principles of operational excellence.
00:18:28.960 --> 00:18:42.960
So I built a um I built my myself and my colleagues built a 32 requirement standard assessment um criteria so we can actually understand from a perspective of operational excellence: are we ready to do continuous improvement?
00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:50.799
Are we ready to go through, or do we actually have to put in some some other fundamentals that will that will help us and help supplement continuous improvement?
00:18:50.799 --> 00:18:58.960
Like, do we have enough data-driven decision making, or do we have the tools to make data-driven uh decision-making um uh decisions?
00:18:58.960 --> 00:19:00.880
I think about 30 times there.
00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:04.640
Um how does and how does that and how does that work and how does that work?
00:19:04.640 --> 00:19:09.279
And how can we how can we pull them through on their journey without any of that?
00:19:09.279 --> 00:19:12.319
Because if we don't have the foundations, then it won't succeed.
00:19:12.319 --> 00:19:24.319
So I suppose that that is what we had to do is build the maturity assessment to understand if we're capable of change, and then that impact assessment is if we are to do this, what's the likely impact of that?
00:19:24.319 --> 00:19:27.440
If we don't do it, what's the impact of it?
00:19:27.440 --> 00:19:29.680
And then understand understanding that.
00:19:29.680 --> 00:19:31.759
So yeah, it's a cultural change programme.
00:19:31.759 --> 00:19:34.240
If you don't do it, they'll continue down the path of what you're doing.
00:19:34.240 --> 00:19:39.839
And do you know what they might be a really high-performing team anyway, but if you do do it, you have to do it right.
00:19:39.839 --> 00:19:45.279
And to do it right, you've got to take every single operation in its singularity.
00:19:45.279 --> 00:19:48.000
You can't you can't just wrap everything up, yeah.
00:19:48.000 --> 00:20:04.000
The model doesn't change ultimately, but you can flex your approach, and that is what that is what we do now within within the particularly within the contact center tape, because culturally, the difference between Dundee and Waterford, albeit they're very, very close geography-wise, it's very, very different.
00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:12.880
So we have to take the differences into account, and we have to we have to we have to appreciate that because some will be better than others, and that's fine.
00:20:13.119 --> 00:20:13.759
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:20:13.759 --> 00:20:29.200
And I think the crucial piece, you know, you're right, the model doesn't change, but the readiness for change changes, and if that readiness for change isn't there as well as that other under you know, knowledge and so on and so forth, then you're just pushing water uphill, aren't you?
00:20:29.519 --> 00:20:36.720
Yeah, the time wasn't wrong, but my timing and the context that I was sharing was wrong, and that's what I had to change.
00:20:36.720 --> 00:20:39.599
So, how do I ch how do I sell them this this story?
00:20:39.599 --> 00:20:43.279
It was like it was almost like I was by snake oil season to say that was gonna change their lives.
00:20:43.279 --> 00:20:45.440
Well, people don't care about that ultimately.
00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:49.359
There's like, how are you going to make my life in Tesco better?
00:20:49.359 --> 00:20:50.720
And that's what I had to do.
00:20:50.720 --> 00:20:57.839
Instead of just saying this works in you know BT, it works in Toyota, it works in B it works in other other industries, right?
00:20:57.839 --> 00:21:00.160
Fine, but I don't work there, I work in Tesco.
00:21:00.160 --> 00:21:03.680
Tell me how it's gonna work in Tesco and how it's gonna make my life easier.
00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:05.279
Yeah, yeah.
00:21:05.279 --> 00:21:15.599
And so as you as you move forward, these learnings from this work that you've done, you're building into all of your future deployments.
00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:16.880
Yeah, absolutely.
00:21:16.880 --> 00:21:32.079
And I suppose the the big things of for me that what which I preach to everybody within my team is don't assume that because we've had prior success elsewhere, that that's going to guarantee us success every single way every single place that we go.
00:21:32.079 --> 00:21:44.799
So, for example, like I talked about that we're in we're going into the distribution network in our in our in our supply chain, is we need to understand wh where they are in their journey just now from an operation like Sys P.
00:21:44.799 --> 00:21:50.480
So the first thing we have to do is assess and understand that and understand the lay of the land.
00:21:50.480 --> 00:21:52.400
You know, what's the change landscape like?
00:21:52.400 --> 00:22:10.240
Like how much change are these guys having to consume, you know, on a you know, a daily basis ultimately, in some in some instances, and how Are we not going to add to the fatigue but supplement them how they're going to consume it and how they're going to consume the change and how are they going to consume change differently going forward?
00:22:10.240 --> 00:22:21.759
And don't don't assume ultimately that leadership, sponsorship, and buy-in directly correlates to capacity to actually do what you need them to do.
00:22:21.759 --> 00:22:25.680
You need to build capacity in the system for them to cons to consume it.
00:22:25.680 --> 00:22:28.160
So A3 problem solving is a prime example.
00:22:28.160 --> 00:22:35.119
Like, I can't just give it A3 problem solving to somebody that's already maxed out in terms of their time.
00:22:35.119 --> 00:22:49.119
So what we do is understand where does the non-value add activity sit within that within their role currently, and how can we enable them to find that and strip it out so we can give them more to do in the A3 problem solving space.
00:22:49.119 --> 00:22:55.599
Ultimately, is the big one.
00:22:55.599 --> 00:23:04.799
So if we don't measure our readiness and we don't if we don't measure success, then we will never succeed ultimately deploying this.
00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:15.680
Change will happen on top of that.
00:23:15.680 --> 00:23:31.519
So when we're when we're doing huge scale transformation pro programs or colleagues are consuming that, don't say that, oh well, don't look at that.
00:23:31.519 --> 00:23:34.319
When that comes, look at ways to improve that.
00:23:34.319 --> 00:23:39.440
So when I mean every any transformation things, it's never right first time.
00:23:39.440 --> 00:23:41.519
How do you improve it going forward?
00:23:41.839 --> 00:23:42.480
Yeah.
00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:49.039
Honestly, Fraser, it's a really incredible story that you talk about, and I and there's so much in it.
00:23:49.039 --> 00:23:51.279
I could spend hours talking to you.
00:23:51.279 --> 00:24:02.160
Um, I'm really, really um grateful for you joining us today and for being so honest and sharing your learnings, both from a success and from a what didn't go quite so well, perspective.
00:24:02.160 --> 00:24:02.799
Thank you very much.
00:24:03.440 --> 00:24:03.920
Not a problem.
00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:04.960
Thanks very much for having me.
00:24:04.960 --> 00:24:06.160
It's a pleasure.
00:24:06.640 --> 00:24:11.519
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00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:15.359
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00:24:15.359 --> 00:24:19.759
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00:24:19.759 --> 00:24:25.599
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00:24:25.599 --> 00:24:28.960
Until next time, thank you very much for joining us today.
00:24:29.920 --> 00:24:30.640
Thanks.
00:24:31.599 --> 00:24:32.319
Thank you.
00:24:32.799 --> 00:24:34.000
No problem at all.
